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1 No.

Uh, could I see him?

Guess I really done it this time, huh?

Mm.

- Sorry, Dad. - No, it's okay.

It's okay. It's okay. Come on.

Take a seat.

Because we got, uh...

I gotta... I gotta... We...

We...

I don't know where to begin.

How's Grandma?

Oh, she's good.

She sends her love.

'Kay.

Did you ever get around to fixing that AC?

I don't know what to say.

'Kay.

Well...

neither do I.

I didn't realize how sick you were.

You need help.

'Kay.

No, I mean...

You know, like from a professional.

Because

I still think you can be treated.

You know what? 'Cause I...

You know, I have to hope you can get better.

Oh.

'Cause I just...

I've just been trying to think how this all happened.

'Cause I didn't raise you to be like this.

Yeah.

So why do you think you...

Why'd you do it?

I don't know.

Okay. Well, see, now, that's not gonna cut it.

- Well, sorry. - Well, Jeff...

I don't need you to say sorry.

I need to know why.

Because there needs to be some responsibility here.

What you've done to the family, to Grandma, to Shari and me.

Mm.

I mean, do you...?

Do you have any idea how this all started?

I don't know.

I mean, I been... thinking about it.

A lot.

You know?

So I used to...

Well...

Remember when you used to take me to go and find roadkill

and we'd cut 'em up?

No, no, no.

You're not gonna lay this on me, no.

No.

'Kay.

It's not my fault.

I didn't do this.

- I was a good dad to you. - I know.

I mean, I...

What?

Ah...

Uh...

All I... What I was doing was I was showing concern for my son

who showed an interest in something.

It's okay, Dad.

You know, what you did, I didn't teach you how to do that.

- Don't. - You hear me?

'Kay.

I didn't do this!

That's Joyce Dahmer!

- Let's move. - There she is!

Mrs. Dahmer!

Can we talk to you about your son Jeffrey?

How do you feel about the crimes he's been accused of?

- Leave me alone. - Know why your son ate people?

Why's he seem to target Black and Latino gay men?

- Think these were hate crimes? - I said leave me alone!

- Do you feel responsible? - One more question.

Ah! My name is not Dahmer!

Thank you.

Isaac Richards?

Yes.

I'm Joyce Flint.

I have the results of your HIV test.

You're negative.

Jesus.

Ma'am, why are you crying?

It's just my...

I'm just so happy you don't have to give your mother any bad news.

Sweetheart?

Lionel, what are you doing?

Oh, I'm just, uh... I'm up early.

You never came to bed.

I'm sorry, what did you say?

Honey...

we need to talk.

Honey, you have to sleep. This isn't healthy.

Well, my schedule's all messed up.

Well, you should be using this time just to rest.

I can't rest, Shari.

Then we need to see a doctor and get you some sleeping pills.

Jesus Christ...

Because five nights in a row of not sleeping is not healthy.

Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah, more pills. That's just what this family needs.

You do know that pills are what started this whole thing. You know that.

Just calm down.

How many pills you think she was on when she was pregnant with him? Thousands.

She was, sleeping pills, sedatives, seizure medication.

She didn't give him a fucking chance.

Come on, you can't blame Joyce for this.

The fuck I can't!

Because it's her fault!

She wasn't a mother!

She never even held him!

- Stop screaming! - She scared the shit out of him!

And then she just left!

She got in her car, and she drove away,

and she left that kid in that house all summer.

Well, where were you that summer, Lionel?

Oh, God... No, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that.

Oh, hey, we are in this together.

I should have checked up on him. I didn't check up on him.

But you didn't know!

He's got my genes, Shari.

Half of that boy is me.

And I...

I've had thoughts like him, I think.

I used to.

I used to

try to make explosives.

And I would use fireworks, and I would tie a little army guy to them.

And one day, I brought a homemade bomb to school.

And I threw it out the goddamn window for Christ's sake.

Oh, honey, that's not the same thing.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, listen.

I had fantasies like him too, I think.

There was a neighborhood girl, and she lived on our block.

And I tried to hypnotize her because...

I don't know.

To get her to do whatever I wanted.

And I used to sit in church...

and think of what it would be like to kill someone, to murder them.

And, uh, I had nightmares about it for a while, I did.

But it wasn't about how I'd

kill someone because it was about how I'd already done it.

Knowing that I'd killed someone and not knowing what to do.

But you didn't.

There is nothing wrong with your genes, honey.

I mean, just look at David.

He's got half your DNA, and he's a nice, normal kid.

Wouldn't you say?

- Yeah. - Yeah.

Aw...

- Yeah. - Yeah.

Oh my...

Sir, you're not allowed to be here. You can't go in there, sir!

Jeff! He's probably asleep upstairs. It's so early!

- Leave her alone. - You cannot be here.

- She's my mother. - Get him out of here.

- You're scaring her. You have no right. - This is a crime scene, sir.

Your son killed people in this house, Mr. Dahmer.

- Understand that? - You have no...

He's cooperating with us. You know that?

She has dementia. You come here, she can have a breakdown.

Jeff! You come down here.

- Sir? - Please, just let me put her in her room.

We'll be out of your way. Please. Please. Come on, Ma.

There's that queen.

Lionel?

Oh, yeah.

Um, okay.

Oh.

Oh.

Uh... it's your move, Ma.

Today, the city of Milwaukee is hurting.

Jeffrey Dahmer's heinous crimes have not only shocked the nation.

They've inflicted a painful and devastating wound on this community.

Now, some folks have asked me,

"Reverend, why are you going out to Milwaukee?"

"Dahmer's been caught."

"Aren't you just stirring up more division?"

To those folks, I say,

"I come here today not to sow division,

but the call for accountability."

Dahmer's crimes weren't committed in a vacuum.

Many people, including officers of the law,

turned a blind eye,

which is why he was able to do what he did for so long.

But you're lucky you've got a strong leader

in Police Chief Arreola.

The chief told me he's planning to launch a thorough investigation

into what went wrong,

especially that incident involving that young boy,

Konerak Sinthasomphone.

But let me be clear.

We are not content to simply listen to words,

comforting words.

- Okay! - Yes!

Words like "healing,"

"cooling down,"

"coming together."

Those are all code words that mean exactly the same thing.

"Let's sweep this under the rug."

We will not be satisfied.

We will not rest until the conditions no longer exist

that would allow someone like Jeffrey Dahmer

to murder 17 young men, many of them Black and brown.

We will not rest until justice prevails for all citizens in this city.

We will not rest until empty words are replaced with decisive action!

We will not rest! We will not rest!

This isn't fair, Chief. You can't suspend us.

We did nothing wrong.

Nothing wrong?

You returned an underage boy back to a serial killer

that would eventually kill him.

You didn't check his identification or his age.

You ignored witnesses.

You didn't do a background check on Dahmer.

We didn't see a need to do a background check.

If you had, you'd have seen that Dahmer was on probation for child molestation.

Look, the kid looked like an adult, all right?

We thought it was a boyfriend-boyfriend thing.

So I guess that's why you had to get "deloused" after the incident.

That is what you told dispatch. We have it on tape.

That was a joke.

Then there's Glenda Cleveland, Dahmer's neighbor.

She claims that she called multiple times about him,

but you ignored her request.

Whose side are you on?

This isn't about sides. You boys screwed up.

And I'm under a lot of pressure.

I have the mayor, the community, Jesse Jackson,

the whole damn country's breathing down my neck.

- I have to do something. - You're our police chief.

You're supposed to have our backs.

You'll both be on paid leave until the panel finishes its investigation,

after which we'll make a final determination.

You know what? Our union reps are gonna fight this.

You can't fire us. Trust me.

We will be here long after you.

Did you think Jeffrey Dahmer was going to eat you?

Yeah.

I did.

He said he was going to eat my heart.

Harrowing stuff.

His name is Tracy Edwards,

the man who was almost Jeffrey Dahmer's final victim.

Thank you, Tracy, for telling your story.

Our next guest is a childhood friend of Jeffrey Dahmer's

who agreed to come on the show on condition of anonymity,

and he's got a story that's a Geraldo exclusive.

We'll call him Nick.

Thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

I understand you had a sexual relationship with Jeffrey Dahmer.

How did you meet him?

We were on the yearbook staff together.

Jeff wasn't yearbook staff.

And where did this sexual activity take place?

At his house.

Did you meet his family?

Oh, yeah, he had a stepmother who was like...

She was like the stepmother from hell, screaming at him all the time...

It's just... It's just all lies.

That's Lionel Dahmer's second wife, Shari.

And, um, he said to me,

he told me that he was

sexually molested by his father.

I'm not watching this.

Nick, Jeffrey Dahmer told...

That's not true, Lionel.

No, it's not true! None of it's true!

Well, sweetheart, what can you do?

I don't know. I... I don't know.

I gotta do something.

What?

You're on the cover of Newsweek and People magazine.

Wow.

Okay.

You think I could take these with me? Just to read?

No, you can't.

Mm.

What do they say?

Well, what do they say? It's not good, Jeff.

They're saying you're the Milwaukee Cannibal.

People want to kill you. They want you dead.

Well fine. I want that too.

No, no, no, no, you don't.

Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty.

Well, they're talking about bringing it back, though, because of me, right?

No, no, Jeff, just get that out of your head. No.

Look,

it doesn't help anybody

for you to spend the rest of your life in prison.

Okay? You need help.

And there's really only one way we can do that.

That's right, yeah. Uh...

For you to get the help you need, so we can understand this,

we have to convince the judge that you're insane, Jeff.

But I'm not insane.

Well, at the time of the killings then.

- Hmm. No, I wasn't then, either. - Oh, jee... Come on, Jeff.

I mean, you killed people, you cut 'em up.

You had sex with them.

You had to stop dismembering them so you could masturbate on them.

But I wasn't crazy. It was just like a... a compulsion.

Right, okay, so you had a compulsion,

which means you couldn't stop.

Yeah, Jeff. Come on.

Come on, you talked about demon... You said that you were possessed.

And you said that you'd wake up and you didn't remember what you did.

'Cause I was blackout drunk, Dad.

That's why I didn't remember some stuff.

But I knew what I was doing.

Didn't want to, but...

couldn't help myself.

I'm not insane.

No. Jeff, no. No.

You're not gonna say that in court. You just... You're not.

Because, uh...

we got something now, okay?

We got a legal precedent.

Uh, there's a previous case that's... He's very similar to yours.

And it wasn't far from here.

Uh, what... what this guy did, it's just very similar.

It was a while ago, back when I was a kid.

This was in Plainfield.

- November 16, 1957. - Fifty-seven. Mm-hmm.

The owner of a hardware store, she disappears.

Now, no one knows where she is.

Her son tells the police that a man by the name of Ed Gein

had been there the evening before.

So they go to his house.

Nobody's there.

So they walk around the back and find a shed.

Oh my...

Jesus Christ.

And there's the woman's body.

All cut up, hanging from the rafters.

So they arrest him.

He doesn't say a thing.

For 30 hours straight, he just sits there.

Finally, he pipes up.

I'd like an apple pie

and a slice of cheese.

Then he starts talking.

They search the house.

They find the woman's head in a burlap sack,

and there's just body parts everywhere.

Bowls made out of people's skulls.

He had skulls on his bedposts.

He upholstered his chairs

with human skin.

And, uh, just like you,

Jeff, you know, you said you, um...

tried to dig up a body once.

Yeah, just once.

Yeah, well, turns out this guy,

he did it like 30, 40 times, digging up bodies.

Oh, wow.

They looked in the coffins. They were empty.

And... And he went into a kind of a daze when he did these things,

and then he would kinda wake up and...

and he couldn't remember what happened.

Did he have sex with the bodies he dug up?

Okay. Okay. Jeff, here, Ed Gein... Okay...

The point is he killed a lot of people too, okay?

And there's no denying that.

But, um, he entered a plea of not guilty

by reason of insanity, and didn't spend the rest of his life in prison.

He spent the rest of his life in a hospital,

getting the psychiatric help that he needed.

You see?

We can do the same thing for you, Jeff.

Hmm.

Well, that... That does sound familiar.

What?

Uh...

I've read about him.

You know, it was a comic book I read about him, I think.

I'm sorry. Did you say a comic book?

Yeah, it was one of those, uh, Weird Tales ones or something.

Spooky stuff.

I remember the cover, I think.

A fucking comic book.

I mean... Well, now we know where the fault lies, the whole culture.

- Yeah. - Who writes a comic book like that?

- That's something... - Mr. Dahmer.

You've got to understand the weight of what it's like

representing somebody like Jeff.

We got to stay focused here.

We hold fast and stick with the insanity plea.

So, we do that, do we still have to go through the whole trial?

Yeah, and I think we will lean into it.

We don't argue the murders aren't gruesome. They are.

I think that helps our case.

The jury has hereby determined

that Mr. Dahmer was of sound mind

and not legally insane...

...with respect to all of the 15 counts

of first-degree murder he's confessed to,

which means his victims' families can rest assured

that he will be sent to prison.

Court shall recess till Monday,

at which time victims' family members will be allowed

to make impact statements to the court.

And the defendant will be allowed to make a statement of his own

before sentencing.

Court is adjourned till Monday at 9:00 a.m.

So that's it. Huh? You're leaving? Huh?

What do you want me to say, Lionel?

Well, I would like you to take some responsibility, maybe.

Lionel. Lionel.

- Responsibility? What does that mean? - Just what it means.

So you're saying this is my fault?

No. No, he's not.

Yeah, well, as of now, I'm taking the blame for this.

Have you read what they said about me?

I've not heard a word from you

about the awful lies they're spreading about me.

I don't know what the hell you did with him when I wasn't there.

Oh, is that right?

And you say I did this to him?

Well, it is not my fault, you son of a bitch!

It's nobody's fault.

- You think I did this to him... - It's not about who's to blame.

when you were cutting up roadkill with him

in that fucking garage, Lionel?

Yeah, just walk away, Joyce. Just like you walked away from your son.

Lionel.

You still on those pills, huh?

- How many you fucking taking? Huh? - Lionel! Lionel! Stop it!

Stop it.

All right, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. God. Oh God, forgive me.

- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. - It's okay.

I'm so sorry.

May I help you?

Ms. Straughter?

Yes.

- I'm Joyce Flint. I'm... - I know who you are.

Is your daughter Dorothy here, Curtis's mother?

She's not. What is it you want, Ms. Flint?

Well, first, let me just say how

deeply, deeply sorry I am for what happened.

For what my son

did to your grandson Curtis.

I realize there's nothing I can say.

It's unforgivable.

Why are you here, Ms. Flint?

I came here because

I was hoping to speak to you or your daughter

as a mother.

To ask if...

if either of you might be willing

to say something in court tomorrow

on behalf of Jeff.

On behalf of Jeff?

That the judge might consider sending him to a mental facility

and not to prison.

You want us to forgive your son?

Ask the judge to forgive him?

No.

I feel for you, ma'am.

Truly, I do.

You want your truth as a mother to be heard, I understand that.

But maybe now it's time for you to listen to somebody else's truth.

You understand?

Let's hear the first impact statement.

My family and I came to this country by boat.

We were poor, but we were hopeful.

American dream.

We believed in the American dream.

But now, we're living in a nightmare.

And it's all because of Jeffrey Dahmer.

He robbed us of our son, Konerak.

He robbed us of our dream.

My name is Shirley Hughes, and I'm Tony Hughes's mother.

I would like to say to Jeffrey Dahmer that...

he don't know the pain, the hurt, the loss,

and the mental state he's put our family in.

But I'd just like to read a poem that a good friend of my son's wrote.

"Why are you attacking me, Jeffrey?"

"I thought you were my friend."

"Why am I a victim in your cruel and evil world?"

"Look at the tears roll down my face."

"See that each one is a cry for help, and realize that I want to live."

"What have I done to you

to make you such a maniac, to make you such a devil?"

Why did this happen to a person like Eddie?

He gave so much and asked for so little.

All he wanted was a chance to be himself.

When you killed my brother, you killed

my mother and father.

I beg you, Your Honor,

don't let this man ever walk the streets

or see daylight again.

Good morning, Honor.

My name is Donald Bradehoft.

I'm the...

For the Bradehoft family.

As much as love in our family closed,

my mother gave five beautiful kids.

We lost...

He destroyed the baby of the family.

And I hope you go to hell!

I love this world.

You guys did a wonderful job.

Bottom of my heart, thank to God,

I got a lot of strength.

Thank you all.

God bless America.

I'll never get a chance again to tell him that I loved him.

You took my mother's oldest grandchild from her.

And for that, I can never forgive you.

"Mom, I'm gone."

"I know there's a dragon piercing your heart day and night because of this,

but yet, I'm not far away."

"Two fingers and one thumb

means 'I love you' in sign language."

"When you cry, Mom,

place one teardrop outside your window ledge,

and when I pass by, I'll exchange it for one of mine."

"And then I'll always be with you."

"Two fingers and one thumb."

"Your son, Tony."

My name is Rita Isbell,

and I'm the oldest sister of Errol Lindsay.

Je... Whatever your name is, Satan.

I'm mad!

This is how you act when you are out of control?!

Now, I don't want to ever have to see my mother go through this again!

Never, Jeffrey!

Jeffrey, I hate you, motherfucker!

I hate you!

This is out of control!

Don't fuck with me, Jeffrey! I'll kill you, God damn it!

Look at me! Look at me, motherfucker!

Mr. Dahmer, before I impose sentence,

I understand you have a statement you'd like to read?

Yes, Your Honor.

Your Honor, it is over now.

This has never been a case of trying to get free.

I didn't ever want freedom.

Frankly, I wanted death for myself.

This was a case to tell the world that I did what I did,

not for reasons of hate.

I hated no one.

I knew I was sick or evil or both.

Now I believe I was sick.

The doctors have told me about my sickness,

and now I have some peace.

I know how much harm I've caused,

and I tried to do the best I could after the arrest to make amends,

but no matter what I did,

I could not undo the terrible harm I've caused.

My attempt to help identify the remains was the best that I could do.

And that was hardly anything.

I feel so bad for what I did to those poor families,

and I understand their rightful anger.

I know I will be in prison for the rest of my life...

We're here outside Milwaukee County Courthouse,

where just moments ago, Judge Laurence Gram

sentenced serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer to 15 consecutive life terms in prison,

one life term for each person he's accused of killing.

You all right, Mama?

Yeah, I'm good.

We got that bastard. We got him.

And he ain't never getting out.

Guess I'm getting what's coming to me, huh?

Oh, son.

- It's okay, Dad. - Yeah.

We tried our best.

Listen, um,

I know we only have a few minutes, so there's something I gotta tell you.

Um...

Now, I've been looking everywhere

to find out who is responsible for all this,

blaming everybody except myself.

And it's me. I'm the one to blame.

- Dad, you don't have to say that. - Honey...

Okay, shut up, Jeff. Please just listen to me. Listen to me.

It's me. I did this to you.

All that stuff with the dead animals, I shouldn't have done that.

I shouldn't have showed you how to do that.

And your, uh, your fantasies about killing people and stuff,

I should have made you feel like you could tell me about that stuff.

You know?

Because I had those same feelings.

And I gave you that part of me.

And I never really...

helped you enough when you needed it.

When you went to prison, I wrote a letter to the judge.

I said, "My son needs help," 'cause I knew you did,

but I just left it at that, and that wasn't enough, and...

I wasn't a good father.

I wasn't, 'cause I wasn't a good husband.

And you didn't feel safe.

I left you alone.

I can't believe that I left you alone.

Oh, I'm so... I'm so sorry I left you alone.

Time to go.

And I'll... I'll never forgive myself.

Okay, but I won't leave you again.

I promise, son. I'll... I'll make it up to you.

I'll visit you every week, and I'll call.

I've known this was coming for a long time now.

There's so much I need to say.

But I find it impossible to put into words...

...because it's all so horrible.

Words can't express the scale of my grief.

When I try to take responsibility for the part I played in all of this,

it is simply too painful to do so.

But denying I had any part in it

is a comfort I can't allow myself.

Because I know it isn't true.

I failed you, Jeff,

and I'm sorry I wasn't the mother you needed.

And I am no longer willing to live with the guilt of that fact.

To all of Jeff's victims,

I cannot express to you the magnitude of my regret.

So it's pointless to even try.

To my son David, please forgive me.

You've been able to rise above all of this,

and I'm sorry that I'm not able to.

I love you and your brother.

I tried my best.

Sweetheart.

Hold on. I'm in the middle of a chapter here.

When, uh, Jeff was...

Remember that Christmas before Jeff went in the Army?

Okay, but...

Just one second. One second.

Oh, yeah, how did I not know that writing a book

is what I should've been doing the whole time?

I think I have a knack for it.

Lionel, I just got off the phone with David.

She's okay.

But he said that Joyce tried to kill herself.

Oh, Jesus.

Oh, Jesus.

She's okay, though?

Yeah.

Okay.

I'll call him.

Thank you, guys.

We're glad to be back on the force.

Thank you, uh, for all your support.

It's meant a lot, and, uh...

it was nice to know that somebody has your back.

- Yeah! - Yeah!

- Thank you. - Thanks.

- Good to see you, sir. How are you? - Bobby!

I appreciate the call, Mayor.

Yes, so do I.

What happened?

Those two cops who let that Konerak boy go back to Jeffrey Dahmer,

they've just been reinstated.

What?

A slap on the wrist and that's it?

Mayor said they're gonna appeal the decision.

And if that fails?

Then we...

...fight the next fight.

And the next fight.

And the next.