Original subtitles

Marina, Marina. Up.

Wow! This looks so beautiful!

Everybody, move around in your positions. Marcus, come closer to Marina.

That's good, guys. Stay right there. Perfect. Eyes back. Stay with me in the eye.

You know what is interesting?

After 40 years of people thinking you're insane

and you should be put in mental hospital,

you finally actually get all these acknowledgements.

It takes such a long time to take you seriously.

There. Right there. Right there. Don't move anything. Right there.

It's a long way.

Welcome to the Arts portion of our program. Kind of the highbrow part.

In fact, it's the Museum of Modern Art, this exhibit we're talking about.

But it might raise your eyebrows is what this one might do

in addition to being highbrow.

You have to decide if it's highbrow or not. Monica Morales went to see it.

There are 3 pieces in particular that are nude. Here's the first one.

It's called "Imponderabilia" by artist Marina Abramovic.

- The name of the artist is Marina? - Marina. Yeah.

- Her last name. - Don't know.

- Abramovic. - OK, right. - Like, you know, Eastern European.

- You did tell me once, yes. - Marina Abramovic.

Ladies and Gentlemen, do not run. Do not run. Thank you.

I want whatever pass you have.

My mother dressed me as a devil when I was 4 years old for the little party

My first party ever. Everybody was dressed very happy.

In the princesses and cowboys. And I was looking so miserable

just... really

little kid with a very sad, black devil dress with the two horns.

I have no idea why she dressed me as a devil. I think that marked my life.

- So we are re-creating this image. - Eyes back at me.

Only 60 years later!

I mean, after the show, I have to put some more attention to sex in my life.

So I have to really look for it.

If I put advertising like that, do you think that will...

that will, uh, attract some, some guys?

Semi-intellectual, artist on the top of her career, looking for the single male.

Ok.

So basically you are looking at many Marinas.

You're looking the Marina who is product of the two partisan parents

two national heroes, no limits, will power. Any aim she put in the front of her.

And then, right next to this one, you have the other one

who is like a little girl, who, you know, mother never give her enough love, and

very vulnerable and unbelievably disappointed and sad.

And there is another one who have this kind of spiritual wisdom

and can go above all that.

And this is actually my favorite one.

Stop there. Come towards me a bit.

This side on the line.

He have to make from over...

Oh, he's there. Hello? We can... we can... Ok.

Now we have to start.

- I guess that was the... - Yeah, yeah. Does look cooler.

- OK. And then back to here. - Yeah, yeah.

But here I have 10 pieces already. Which is plenty.

Yeah, but it's whether they work.

I love your name, August. It's amazing. Do you have a brother September?

No, but who is writing the text?

- That would be Klaus and his team. - That be Klaus. - Yeah.

- All right. So... - I'll just be putting it on the wall.

Oh, that's great to know. I like Times. Just to tell you of the letter set.

And I like Russian type of letter setting.

- But we can choice together some things. - OK, great.

- OK. That's great. - Thank you. All right.

It's too red, everything.

Well, we talked about, uh, making it black and white yesterday.

Yeah, you know, there will be color, actually. - OK.

One time in my life I would like to show everything.

What it takes you to make art and to be an artist.

How much correspondence, how much e-mails,

how much faxes, how much letters,

how much plane tickets, how much...

All this structure is just enormous.

What is actually physical work which has nothing to do with creativity

but just administration.

Marina Abramovic's office. Ehi.

In MoMA, I have whole sixth floor. Wow.

Which is big deal, I tell you. It's big deal. - Unbelievable.

I feel pain in my back already just to think about.

So it start chronological. So this is the beginning, you know.

It's the beginning, my early work. You know...

this work is, it's called "Artist Is Present."

So only is focusing on performance where artist is literally present.

Doesn't include my transitory objects, doesn't include my sound pieces

doesn't include my, uh, objects, uh, with crystals.

Just performance. Pure performance. It's all about performance.

If we have the video, we don't, we don't show anything except video, you know.

It's very radical.

So for me, it's like that's why the show in MoMA is historical for me, important,

to really put the kind of things in the right place.

Because performance never been regular form of art.

It's been alternative since I was born.

So I want to really to be real form of art and respect. Before I die.

Bye. And you. Kiss.

So let's start with the exhibition.

You are re-performing your own performance? - No, new piece.

- You're... you're making... - I'm making new piece.

- One new piece or several new pieces? - Just one new piece. "Artist Is Present."

And all the rest are people re-performing my...

my... 5 historical pieces.

And so I think your first performance was also in a museum

in Belgrade.

Is that...

- No, you know, it's actually... - No, but, but what kind of venues...

And Marina, the element of sound is imminent in "Relation in Movement"

where you were driving a van around a square for 16 hours

and shouting numbers through a megaphone.

Yeah. - You substituted your persona with that of a prostitute, yeah?

And, "Rhythm 2" where you took psychoactive drugs

to challenge social attitudes toward female mental illness.

And "Rhythm 5, " where you lay inside a wooden 5-pointed star

set on fire and then fainted from the lack of oxygen.

Now these pieces, you have often been threatened and threatened your own body,

and I know you're probably sick of these questions

but I just want to touch on it briefly before we can move on.

There is only one question I didn't hear since 10 years:

Why is this art?

This is, was the main question since I start performances,

people asking me, and I could not take it. And now actually I'm missing it, like...

nobody ask me, why is not art? Because maybe it's my age so they,

they kind of get it finally or they just pretend to get it.

If you're alternative when you're young, when you're 18 and 19 and 20,

and you're still alternative with 29 and you're alternative with the 30.

And you're alternative with the 40. And you're alternative with the 50.

But excuse me, I am 63. I don't want to be alternative anymore!

Many people think of her as the grandmother of performance art.

Art must be beautiful. Artist must be beautiful.

Performance emerged in the sixties as a result of a challenge to painting.

Whatever it was, it was not something you hung on the wall.

It's a form of art where the medium is the body.

In the case of Marina, she used the human body

to make statements can sometimes be quite violent.

Can sometimes be provocative.

She is directly and boldly...

challenging an audience.

What is at the heart of her artworks

is the shared experience

of the audience

and the performer.

Many of Marina's works are interventions.

When she did "Rhythm 0" in Naples, with the objects

and people could use the objects against her.

That is like the Stanford Experiment, right?

That is kind of a scientific experiment

that reveals human nature.

But what is art other than revealing human nature?

It's like a murder mystery. It's like a Hitchcock. Is she going to get murdered?

There the gun is.

What's going to happen? Who's walking in? Who's walking out?

The veneer of civilization is very thin.

And what's absolutely terrifying is how quickly a group of people

will become bestial if you give them permission to do so.

And some of Marina's early performances were about that.

It's playing with that edge of the knife...

that allows her to create the intensity...

of the performances that makes them transcendent.

Basically, it's the workshop called "Cleaning the House"

and it's preparation for the show in MoMA.

Let's cut together. As fast as we can.

Because we have to cut all this, put in the soup

before 2:00.

My generation artist not performing anymore.

I'm one of the maybe two or 3 still left.

And I was thinking, I, is my task to make history straight.

So when I now asked to make a perspective on the performance work in MoMA,

I was really thinking that it would be important for me to let it go

also for my own ego

and give 5 historical pieces to other younger artists to be re-perform.

So now they're coming and I am cooking the soup.

She said something like, we're not going to eat or speak for 3 days. She's like:

you'll hate me at the time but you'll love me forever after and do whatever I want.

What do you look so worry about?

She wants us to fast for 3 days

and she's mentioned some other exercises that we'll be doing.

Like, I'm going with my instincts on this

and it feels right to trust her.

So you can make your last phone call.

Last phone call.

You know, you'll be free for 3 days. It's amazing.

- So what's, what's happening? - We'll let you know later. Don't worry.

- It doesn't matter. - It's... it's just a little bit different.

They can take this experience and can do everything they want with their own life.

But probably they will hate me anyway.

At least in the beginning.

Is very simple structure, you know,

and the whole idea is to slow down,

to slow down with your body and your mind into zero gravity

if it's possible.

So, you know, the first ritual will be to wake up

and do some simple exercises like, like a kind of,

you know, little jumping and little bit of the energy releasing.

I will show it to you. It's very simple. And then we go to the river.

Anybody who have a problem with nudity, please take a swimming suit...

one bikini...

one side, two sides, whatever you want, or naked. I don't care.

The purpose of this whole thing is that they really have to perform 3 months,

which is very big, um, kind of obligation.

So they have to create their own charismatic space

and for that you, you have to consider some training.

The proposition here is just empty yourself.

Be able to be in a present time.

Put your mind here and now.

And then something emotional open.

And that's what we are looking for in this work.

In performance, you have to have emotional approach.

It's a kind of direct energy dialogue with the public and the performer.

And if you're performing in that way, that you're there, at least 100 percent,

there is emotional moment arrive to everybody.

There's no way out. Everybody feel it.

Artist have to be warrior.

Have to have this determination and have to have the stamina to conquer,

not just new territory but also to conquer himself

and his weaknesses.

So doesn't matter what kind of work you are doing as an artist,

the most important is from which state of mind you're doing what you're doing.

And performance is all about state of mind.

So...

wait and see.

Marina Abramovic: The Artist Is Present" means...

that from March 9

to May 31...

whenever you enter the museum during opening hours,

it may be at 9:30 in the morning or at 5:00 in the afternoon...

she will be present.

How I imagine "Artist Is Present" in Atrium,

I actually imagine more like a kind of...

film set.

There is a huge square of light.

And just that square, you know, like "Lost in Translation" in some way.

In the middle of that square is placed a table and two chairs.

It's so simple. It's like nothing there.

It's just a artist sitting like mountain, you know.

I want to be just like a rock there. Only 3 months.

And looking you in the eyes.

We are talking 3 months. Every single day.

If you are performing 3 months,

it's really performance become life itself.

People don't understand that the hardest thing is to...

actually do something which is close to nothing.

It's demanding all of you because there's no story anymore to tell,

there's no objects to hide behind.

There's nothing. It's just your pure presence.

You have to rely on your own energy and nothing else.

7 1/2 hours.

6 days a week.

Motionless.

Wow!

I have nothing to say.

No comment.

Only respect.

I could imagine it being unbearable to sit there.

She's gonna try.

I don't know whether it's going to work.

Can I show you?

When she had this idea, I said, "Oh, God, she's going to kill herself."

And I said, "Marina, I don't know if I want to have "the responsibility

of having "given you the permission to do that.

Think about it for two days."

And then she called me the next morning, she said, "I can do that."

The moment that Klaus Biesenbach came with the title of the show

"Artist Is Present, "

it was like a destiny. Click, like right away. Artist Is Present.

There's no anyway out.

I wanted to show you. I mean, isn't this fantastic?

- It's the aesthetic... - No one will ever see it except...

And it's nothing to do with the museum, not to get flooded for sure.

I mean, maybe I don't use it at all. I just have to...

Oh, I'm very much counting on you never using it. You promised.

No, because, because is, it's like the whole idea about, you know, security...

Men don't get it. So I think it's fine.

He doesn't want to hear... to deal with reality.

No, I think that's fine. I think that's a brilliant solution.

I have no idea why I have to do harder and harder, it's like something in me.

You know, I can perfectly make retrospective,

36 people re-performing my piece.

We have wonderful dinner, celebration,

go home and work is done.

But why I have to do this?

This is like my, my cross, I am carrying it.

It's insane. So, God help me to finish this one.

When you're watching a Marina Abramovic performance,

you are engaging with her physical presence, which is very striking.

The clear evidence that she has a lot of physical stamina and strength,

which the public and its presence gives her,

but clearly, physically, it's innate. She can take...

sitting still or doing very little or...

whatever she's doing in the performance for long periods of time.

Which most people cannot.

So, my both parents are national heroes from the Tito time,

you know, in the Second World War in ex-Yugoslavia.

I had a such a terrible...

real control at home, which I hated.

Everything was like, um, disciplined, scheduled.

I was trained to be soldier, literally.

My mother would even wake me in the middle of the night if my bed was not straight

because I am sleeping too messy. I mean, that kind of insanity.

It was no love there, you know.

I never remember my mother kissing me or holding me in any possible way.

And much later in my life when I ask her: "But why, you know, you never kiss me?

She was so surprised at the question. She said:

"Of course, I didn't kiss you, not to spoil you."

And she really didn't spoil me but...

On other side, it was the grandmother who was loving and always there

and she was spiritual and spending all the time in the church,

and I was with her when I was a child because most of them was doing...

political career, never had time for me.

So there's a kind of strange mixture between spirituality

and that Communist discipline.

Looking now back, it was very important to me

and actually, this is what make me what I am now.

Nice to meet you. You are welcome to Florence.

I went to this, bathroom in aeroport,

and there was a fantastic discovery.

Two pages with illustrations:

"How to wash the hands by water and soap."

It's, "Come lavare i mani con acqua e sapone."

Brilliant.

Today we are here for the important

Lorenzo Magnifico award

to Marina Abramovic.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

So I need the microphone. All right.

And now, you know, I was thinking last I would give a lecture.

And I don't feel in this occasion getting prize to give a lecture.

I would like to actually have a more dialogue with the public.

And before I do this, I would like to read you my manifest.

So, my manifest, I think I wrote really out of my heart

and is also is actually funny in the same time.

But is true.

An artist should not lie to himself or to others.

An artist should not steal ideas from the other artist.

An artist should not compromise for themselves or in regard to the art market.

An artist should not kill another human being.

An artist should not make themselves into an idol.

An artist relation to his love life...

No, love life, love... amore.

I apologize...

An artist should avoid falling in love with another artist.

An artist should fall, avoid to falling in love with another artist.

An artist should fall, avoid to falling in love with another artist.

The very first moment we met was when she came to Amsterdam.

She was to do a performance.

I met her just before that one.

The performance was called "Thomas Lips."

It came down to that she would cut a pentagram in her stomach

with a razor blade and she would whip herself.

And I said, "No, no, maybe not."

Afterwards, I start nursing her wounds.

I didn't lick her wounds but I cared for the wounds

and cleaned it and, you know, put something on it.

And I think that was the crucial point.

At the time we met, there was immediately a fascination.

Type-wise, character-wise, personality-wise,

the work we had been doing singularly, she and me.

You know, there was a recognition like you have found a lost brother or a lost sister

or something like this.

Plus, that we were born on the same day, November the 30th,

both Sagittarius. Obvious.

You know, destiny brought us together.

I really loved him, I mean, loved him like more than myself.

And for me, was when we start working together, this was forever.

I was thinking, this is the relation, this is work and it will never stop.

It was like two twins connected with the, with the body together, and soul.

We were lovers, we were friends

we were performers

all at once.

And our love was always on top of it.

I think Marina and Ulay's relationship is one of the great love stories.

Marina is very hardcore and she had met someone who was equally

prepared to go to any lengths for his art.

And that must have impressed her enormously because she had met her equal.

When Marina and Ulay came together and started

the group of works known as the Relation Works,

there had been nothing like it in performance before.

We would engage our bodies in a confrontational way

we wanted to get to the point about male/female conflicts,

traumatic experiences about relation.

Afterwards, often we were black and blue.

But it didn't hurt.

Our 12 years that was as intensive and as heavy

as powerful as other people's whole life, I guess.

We went through so many stages: falling in love, having this relation of 12 years.

Now we are talking 23 full years

that we are able first time ever to be under the same roof.

Ulay should be here at 2:00.

The first time that Ulay comes in in this specific apartment in New York

Never here, never Upstate. They've been separate since many years

so we are getting together to talk about it.

And I have no idea what will come out but be for sure interesting.

For sure.

Hello.

- How you doing? - Doing fine.

I've just been with psychoanalyst.

Dr. Glimour. Very special lady.

Really strict. I like strict.

I mean, she doesn't have uniform, but almost.

So she told me emotionally, I am not doing so bad.

I should go more into my childhood,

look into the patterns not to repeat for the next relationship.

I told her about Ulay and she think maybe it's going to be easy...

maybe not

the whole thing. You know, we don't know.

OK, let me have a glass of water.

We both are in third act of our life.

There's no other moment, you know, to get closer

and somehow forgive each other.

To really kind of peacefully, find OK,

it was really horrible and painful and hateful

and everything else together. But it was creative at the same time

and we should just forgive each other.

Are you in the wrong building?

- No, it's the... - The Performing Garage is right here.

- No, this is my building. - Hi, dear. - How are you?

What shall I call you? "The Grandmother of Performance Art?"

- Or "the Diva of Performance Art?" - No, come in, come in.

I think I still love her.

I can live with it. I'm happy I do, rather than hating her.

So this my loft.

- This is Davide. Davide you know? - No shit. - My assistant. - Hi, Davide.

You met before, no?

- Yeah, I think up in the office, isn't it? - Yes.

And you were the one who sends the e-mails? - I do.

Davide is young artist. And good one, too. From Torino.

- David-ay. - Yeah, not David. - Davide. - Davide.

- So, how you doing? - I am doing fine. Look at me.

Totally.

If I can be of help, pleasure.

If I can do something for her, pleasure. Depends what, but

you know, speaking now, yes, of course.

I can do only two things. Help, or be good.

It's an amazing place, Davide. Are you often here, Davide?

Yes, pretty pretty often here, yes.

Yeah, I would, I would try to do the same, ya. It's a great place.

Maybe she still loves me. I don't know.

We will figure out tomorrow something. Tomorrow after tomorrow.

And maybe...

put a finger on her teeth.

Put a finger on her teeth?

Yeah, that means to make something sensitive. Yeah.

Marina, are you nervous about the show at the MoMA? Or are you not nervous?

Incredibly. I'm always nervous even if I give a speech.

- I sit in the toilet for days. - Good.

If I'm not nervous, then I'm nervous why I'm not nervous.

And when you are sitting in the chair

are you going to move on the chair a little bit,

leaning backwards and forwards, or you...

planning on staying in the exact same position?

Exact same position. Not moving at all.

Just looking straight. What are you looking at right there?

Anybody who sit in front of me.

Oh, there's another chair in front of you.

Yeah, because anybody from audience can sit as long as they want.

In front of you.

And it's between 11,000 and 15,000 people at MoMA, so...

it's just The Gaze.

Marina seduces everybody she ever meets.

But that's not the case for me because I went through that process

and now we are divorced.

We are great friends, but we are divorced.

So she would never try to seduce me, because we are divorced.

With Marina, I always try to subtract the performer

from the person I have a working relationship with.

And I try to deal with her as if she was a sculpture.

I look at her work as if it was an object.

I try to be incredibly matter-of-fact with her

because I don't want her "performance persona" to get into the way.

Because with Marina, she's never not performing.

Marina, you don't need this?

You sure?

He makes the wine disappear.

I can teach you one that you can also do that's fun.

I just meet recently somebody that so many people told me

I should meet, I should meet, and that just happened in MoMA, and

so we came here and had, uh, a little drink.

And it's this quite interesting, you know, guy.

He's a magician, David Blaine.

He was thinking we can maybe do something,

during that my... my, ... performance in MoMA.

You know there's always those axes in the glass in case of emergency, you know.

So, I was thinking if somehow I got into using this alco...

this substance that she has, and gagging her face with it,

and people would think it was pretty strange.

And then breaking the glass open and then taking an axe

and just gutting her.

And then come emergency, they put a blanket over me,

blood all over the place. And you know, the police come, take him to prison.

She's laying there and the exhi... the whole exhibition is over.

And people, they don't know what happened...was accident, not accident?

Questioning, you know, maybe reality is not reality.

- And I'll just hack her violently. - You've done this before?

No.

If I do it twice, it's an illusion.

But when you do it one time, it's... it's crazy.

I mean, the amazing thing is, Marina, that it's going to be in at MoMA.

Those people are the perfect people to do it to. - Absolutely

Yeah. You know.

- What do you really think? - I think it's a really bad idea.

Why?

Because he's a really interesting guy and he does amazing things.

But the fact of the matter is, you know

some people culturally call people like that magicians

but I am sure he would prefer to be called an illusionist.

And that really tells you all you need to know.

Your work doesn't have anything to do with illusionism. It's all real.

And to make the connection between those two bodies of work in MoMA

on the occasion of the most important show

you've made to date in your career would be a disaster.

I think it's completely the wrong thing to do. Totally wrong.

I would oppose it with every fiber of my being.

- How about that? - Done! You're right.

- I accept. - Done. - Ok, thanks.

We've worked with 9 galleries now. And now Marina is such a giant.

But Sean is the one that came when no one wanted to deal with...

all the blurry problem... problems of having a performer artist in a...

in a gallery context.

Let me ask you a question.

If you, if you do blue or, or... or red

which you would choose?

- Like, like first feeling you had. - Red.

Klaus just choose blue but, but everybody want red.

Obviously, performance is by its very nature ephemeral.

So, what we did was that we very carefully selected

one photograph to represent each performance

and then we made those into editions and we sold them.

That looks amazing.

And we did them in very small editions.

You have to remember this is 20-odd years ago, so...

we were selling them for between $ 2,000 and $ 5,000 each.

And now, you know, they're, they're very sought after and if you could find them

they would be between $ 25,000 and $ 50,000 each.

There's a certain drama to those pieces.

The model that we created for Marina

and the way that we created the market for her

has become something of a standard

that other people have looked at.

So there's that.

In the 70s with Ulay

we took this such a radical decision to just live in the car.

We don't need to pay telephone bills, electricity bills, rent bills.

And we didn't have no money at all.

But we didn't want to do anything else but performing.

Igor, this is the van where I live.

I live all this time and,

two days ago, you said: "How cute!" And I said: "Cute is when it's in a museum

but it was tough life. It was not cute at all."

So, let's go inside.

I didn't see this car for more than 30 years.

And when arrive in the museum,

it hits me completely unexpected like in my stomach.

It was something that, that like an entire past life just rushing to me.

We have to go in the countryside.

We have to live with shepherds, milk the goats.

We have to go with the empty bottle with mineral water

and borrow gasoline on the stations.

I knew every shower in every gasoline station in Europe.

Anyway, I am very sentimental about this van.

Oh, God. It really breaks my heart.

Looking at this car inside. And how...

really...

how much belief and hope and innocence our life,

you know, was dealing with in that time.

This is incredible happy time of my life...

in this place.

It was everything I always wanted. The man I loved, and...

and work together and be radical and

not making any compromise whatsoever.

And Two of us, and the dog and...

and Universe.

Show me that incredible road

from living there to here.

It's been long way.

I have to go and put the show together.

I have no time.

Marina was knitting sweaters for the both of us.

I was repairing the car. I drove the car all the time. Marina couldn't drive.

So it was really basic, basic, basic, basic. Like modern nomads.

But it was the best time.

And from that, we got a lot of energy, a lot of power.

- So this is Hudson River? - This is Hudson, yeah.

Straight ahead. Red light stop.

Green light go.

Let's stop right here somewhere because I would like to drive now.

It's my historical moment. I'm going to drive you. First time in my life.

I'm willing to sit beside you.

Wow, Ulay.

We would never think it would come to this point.

Ever.

- Do we have light? - To the right.

- No, do we have light? - Yeah, the light is on.

- Oh, that is great. - I put the light on already.

Is the brake down? Oh, brake is up.

- Brake is up. Now it is down. - Thank you. I knew something was wrong.

Let's go. Let's ride.

You're going to be my hands now.

Yeah, I was afraid so. Turn to the right a little more.

Little more. Stop, stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go, go, go, go.

It's perfect. Perfect. Just perfect.

Go further.

One meter you can go, or we have to go through this door.

Well, well, I'm a little shaky but I'm, you know,

shaken but very much taken.

OK, from 1-10, Ulay,

- what do you think? 5?

More.

- 6?

- More.

- OK, we go for 7 1/2. - No, we go for 7.

Yeah, we go for 7. 7 is a good number.

Great.

- Well done. - Well done. - Abramovic.

Abramovic.

Yeah, you, you work like hell.

- That's the only thing I know. - That's true.

I'm going to make zucchini sauce, with this pasta.

Our relation was very much to do with the really male/female

kind of separation of the duties.

He would do everything with this external world

you know, getting grants, finding the money, going to the bank.

And I would do cleaning, washing, and taking care of the dog.

And I remember when we split, I didn't have a bank account.

I had no idea how that all worked.

Took me a long time to learn everything from the zero.

- And you have opener? - Yes.

After our more simplistic life

she became very ambitious.

Both in the work and in the manifestation of her ambition.

Meaning image and wealth.

And I maybe went in a more stable, straight line

after separation.

And she climbed a huge mountain

with a lot of success.

Maybe it sounds strange, but I don't have the time to do this effort

to make this...

possible...

for myself.

But anyhow, I don't have to make it possible for myself,

I'm just going to marry her.

Is this OK if I make a little bit...

- spicy? - Yes.

Pepperoncini?

There are not so many artists, I believe...

who are working so hard,

like Marina does.

But she is always very...

very elegant.

And ...

And I look... I look like a worker in the field.

Of course I am a worker in the field of art.

But I look like a worker but I do much less work.

So, you know, you know what I mean.

I'm just lazy.

"Nightsea Crossing" consisted of a man and a woman

sitting opposite each other on two chairs.

Sitting motionless

silent.

Fasting.

What it mainly was about,

tremendous dislikes in Western society.

Inactivity, inaction is discredited.

Silence is discredited. And fasting is discredited.

So these are the 3 things which could upset people pretty much,

especially when you went for 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12,

13, 14, 15, 16 days.

Inactive, silent, fasting,

absolutely motionless,

which is almost impossible.

We did "Nightsea Crossing" for 90 days, non-consecutive days.

Once I stood up.

I had enough.

Woman can sit better than man

because of anatomy.

And I got up after 13 or 14 days

because my ribs...

were pushing so hard on my spleen

that I went to the hospital and they said:

"Well, you should stop fasting."

I lost then already 24 pounds.

So that was...

just over the limit, I think, on my part.

Once.

One of the reasons that he said that he could not sit,

he was so skinny that he was sitting on his bones

and it was just penetrating through his skin.

OK, Yogi guys do the same. But he didn't.

So anyway, and then he said, "You have to stand up

because performance can't be without me."

And I, I didn't see the reason.

That's why in this "Nightsea Crossing" I'm continue.

I always... I'm continue,

but there is empty chair.

I never have had a relation with a woman,

neither with a man,

of such a degree of...

symbiotic quality.

So 12 years, well, we were burning up.

The Marina-Ulay collaboration,

in a simple, direct and profound way,

expressed the male-female dynamic

and then reaches this kind of epic conclusion

with the walk on the Great Wall of China...

called "The Lovers."

It's beyond operatic

in its proportion.

"The Lovers, "

in which Marina and Ulay walked the Great Wall of China,

was an epic.

The 3 months process of walking...

towards each other...

very simple,

really pared down,

and extraordinary in its clarity.

This was the last of their Relation Works.

And, of course,

the way the Great Wall walk ended...

was with their splitting up.

We very soon become this great art couple

and everybody was projecting like a perfect image.

In reality, he was not happy with his position

and somehow the more better pieces we'd been doing in the performance,

the worse our relation will get in private.

And later on, it's like his interest was different than my interest

and he was really kind of experiencing life,

go for drinking, go for the drugs.

And then he became unfaithful, which was very hard for me.

We were monogamous.

Till a certain point

when the tightness of that ideology

started to unravel,

started to...

disintegrate a little bit.

Then she had at the same time...

a sexual adventure with somebody like I had.

The same time.

Except she did it with a friend of ours. I didn't.

Wow.

I shouldn't have said that.

Took us about 8 years of negotiations to get permission

to walk the Chinese Wall,

and during the negotiations, many times he had to take a trip to China.

And she was a translator.

And when we finished Chinese walk, he told me that she was pregnant.

And he asked me, "What I should do?" And I said, "What you should do..."

you know, I leave and you do whatever you want."

So, they married.

It is like, you know, like it began. It ended like it began.

It began like this and it ended like this.

That's all.

After I split with Ulay

it was the most dramatic moment of my life.

I remember writing in my diary, I was 40,

I was fat, ugly, and unwanted.

And I said, God, I lost man I love and I lost my work

because it was working together.

It was nothing there. It was empty.

And I was like, new beginning or I am going to totally, you know,

go down and destroy myself in depression.

And this was the moment that I went first time get some money in Paris

and I bought first designer clothes.

And I felt so good. I went to hairdresser,

I went to the pedicure, manicure.

I was like, wow.

Wow, so what is, like, price for this kind of jacket?

This is unpayable. You can't pay this.

Price... the price of couture, they start from 8,000 to...

can go to 200,000 300,000 400,000 Euro.

- Depends. - Yeah, depends on the pieces.

And all this stuff, you know, I made all this work. I, I'm fine.

Why not feel good and wanted again?

And, and since then, I really say, "Oh, God, I really love fashion."

And, and it was a kind of secret desire.

I mean, this looks amazing.

What do you think? Really. Wow.

Being a performance artist in the seventies to mid-eighties is poverty.

Point. Full-stop.

Bye-bye, extremes.

After we broke off, she got into theater productions

because there was money.

Bye-bye, Ulay!

I mean, the new works of her, a highly formalist aesthetic.

So she clearly had made a step to the theater world.

Very much staged.

With theatrical touch to it.

Marina is a much more theatrical, a much more emotional, a much more...

dramatic artist...

than this show shows.

The risk at the MoMA exhibition will be...

how far it goes into being theatrical.

Marina often says there's a difference:

when you perform, you have a knife and it's your blood;

when you are acting, it's ketchup and you don't cut yourself.

If we lose that in the MoMA performance,

if it's just a fake knife and ketchup, then we lost.

I've been in bed 6 days.

In bed, that's it.

Shit, shit, shit, shit. I didn't leave this bed since 6 days now.

I was so desperate, I was taking everything.

Anything anybody bring me, I take it.

But then I discovered this syrup with Codeine.

This is amazing stuff.

I never take drugs but the Codeine really makes you happy.

I slept like a baby yesterday, actually,

With a smile through all night on my face.

Like idiot.

Anyway, there I am.

I think red is very good here,

because I always think that red gives strength.

So if I have red color, red bed sheets, red shawl, red pajama,

red oranges, I, I maybe get better soon.

OK.

That was my monologue.

How are you doing today?

Shit hit the fan, that's how.

I'm really freaking out. There's no show.

We're, we're getting ready.

Is it possible for Marina to see a projection?

Let me see one projection. Any kind.

- We don't have power. - Huh? - We don't have power.

And we don't even have the source to play them on anyway.

Or the players. Sorry. Not yet.

There's nothing. There's nothing.

I mean, it's 5 days before the show. Looks like there's no show.

What makes me most nervous is this room.

The walls are not even in place.

- Can we start rehearsals? - Yeah. -That's the most important.

Can we get everybody there?

Please come. Hello.

Ahhh... yes, fine. Come.

So can we sit down two seconds? I wanted to see everybody.

Ok

Hello.

It's so different than our workshop in the countryside, I tell you.

I'm going through hell.

And you know, one thing is so important to be open about all this shit

because it's like I can't pretend now I am in Zen shit, but I am not

And also, you know, I didn't even have personal contact with any of you.

I have to trust you with my life, for this show, for this 3 months.

There's no other way. Because it's like, you know...

I have to be really, have all my energy to make my own piece,

knowing that everything is fine upstairs.

Thank you very much for coming to MoMA tonight.

I'm the curator for the Marina Abramovic retrospective.

And that said, I would like to introduce Marina.

So... Thank you very much to Marina.

We thought we should open the podium for questions.

One last chance to ask her something directly,

otherwise you have to wait until June.

I suggest it's so late, let's have 3 real good questions.

- And at least one personal.

- How do we know that before?

Personal question. You seem happy. Are you?

Depends.

You know, so what I can say, I just... I'm very happy that I am by myself

because who I can live with to do this next 3 months what I want to do.

There's no human being who will stay with me.

Because I, because I'm like in a military drill, you know.

I'm in this real complete concentration

about doing this 3 months' work.

Because it looks like simple, I'm just in Atrium

and having one position and a chair. But it's not like that.

It's extremely difficult because you have to really be like a mountain.

I want to create some kind of stillness in the middle of the...

of the, of the hell.

And... and for that, I have to be in right state of mind,

so I have to restrict myself with everything.

And it's winter.

When I come out, it's going to be summer.

Because that will be 31st of May.

Marina is one of the most significant artists

of the second part of the 20th century.

What is so amazing about Marina is that she's really, you know...

invents situations where nobody has been yet.

Her practice is extreme.

54 between Fifth and Sixth, please.

In New York, tens if not hundreds of thousands of people

will be invited to make an experience they've never made before.

MoMA is the most significant context in the world

for any living artist to make a show.

I really see the chance that the performance art become mainstream art.

And with this kind of show in the Museum Modern Art what never happened before,

it's the big chance.

That incredible feeling of responsibility...

for performance in general. It's not just for myself.

I'm feeling like Marie Antoinette going to...

to cut her head off.

The inability to keep going,

the potential of giving up

will become part of the performance if it occurs.

It could be a fiasco.

I mean, there are no rules.

"The Artist Is Present" is a hugely courageous piece.

Because it's a piece that can fail.

Klaus...

I love you.

- Is this OK? - You look beautiful.

Thank you.

That was, uh, 5 years living.

5 years living.

Isn't it great?

Yeah. It is.

Yeah. That's the other one.

They are simultaneous.

Now, Ulay is not there. Now there is no life's partner.

Now the audience is, in quotes, "her lover."

You've been a very bad girl. A very...

Well, that was Beyonce in a new video with Lady Gaga.

And Sandy Rios does not like Lady Gaga's latest video.

This should be outlawed. It should be banned, personally.

There is a limit to what we should tolerate.

You know, I find it interesting because you've got this Lady Gaga video out now

and, and literally in today's "New York Post, " there's an article about...

this exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art

where daring patrons squeeze through two live nude performers

alternating couples, opposite and same-sex, who stand in a narrow doorway

of the new exhibit, which is by some Yugoslavian-born provocateur.

As you listen to the sound of this woman's constant, guttural screaming and moaning.

That they say is art! And it's at MoMA!

They want to film the galleries. No. Do we have an interview? No.

I sent them the statement and our still images, like 4 images from the exhibition.

You know, we're not trying to stop the coverage.

We're just not going to have a circus going on.

Inside.

Friday we had some... some, you know,

weirdos but... we were expecting it.

It's a definite... some people is starting to understand that it's possibly a stage.

You know, possibly an important window.

The problem of the day was

that we established a signal of emergency for Marina.

So if she raise her hand...

It could mean many things,

but essentially it means, please ask the person that is sitting with me to leave

- for some reason. - Yes.

I don't feel comfortable. I am scared. I don't feel well.

Many different reasons. Yeah.

This thing that she's like sort of cleaning the, cleaning the thing.

And then boom!

It's like It reconnect and it's only for you.

So each and every one, had like a clean

unique and personal contact with Marina.

Boom. Like a magnet.

What is so beautiful about the MoMA performance...

she's treating, actually, every human being she is encountered

with the same attention and same respect. That's pretty shocking.

And some people are... shocked by this

and some people anyways think they deserve this attention,

and they are finally where they should be.

And others fall in love with her.

There's so many different reasons why people come to sit in front of me.

Some of them, they're angry. Some of them curious.

Some of them just want to know what happen.

Some of them...

they're really open

and you feel incredible pain.

So many people have so much pain.

When they're sitting in the front of me, it's not about me anymore.

It's very soon, I'm just the mirror of their own self.

Somebody told me the other day that for most masterpieces,

people stand in front of it for 30 seconds.

"Mona Lisa"... 30 seconds.

People come and sit here all day.

The world is moving so fast now.

People barely have an attention span at all.

She slows everybody's brain down.

She asks us to stay there for quite a length of time,

which we are not used to doing.

She transforms us as a result.

Marina's an artist that visualizes time.

Using her body in the space with the audience.

By the mere duration she brings time

in as a weight.

The weight on the performer's shoulders,

taking a piece out of the performer's life as a value.

Time is not an ephemeral just rushing by.

Just imagine...

time...

as an unbearably large object you cannot move.

And you are caught in.

The performance is finished. We are closing the space. Thank you.

We're closed. Thank you.

- We open at 10:30 tomorrow. - My, my last one.

No, no, no. Come back tomorrow. Be with me.

- Come back tomorrow, OK? - You give me a chance?

When you come back tomorrow, we'll talk about it.

- You'll give me a chance. - No, I'm not give you a chance.

- We'll talk about it tomorrow. - You said so. - No, I didn't say so.

- I've got my witness. - Ladies, let's, let's move.

You OK? You want me to get a wheelchair?

No, no. My foot's asleep.

It's coming back. Just give me a couple seconds.

- OK. Hi, Tony. - I was sitting on the ground a long time.

Kids, this is about limit.

Even for me.

Oh, God.

It was strange today. I had this enormous pain

but at the same time when announcement arrive,

I was thinking it was, it was mistake.

It was incredibly... I was expecting another 3 hours.

I was thinking it was so short.

I don't know.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Today.

I saw her having pain.

I saw and heard the guards saying that they are worried.

So, I say, "If you think you ruin your health;

"if you think you damage your body,

then I offer you officially now

to end the performance."

So, so painful.

She just say, "No, it would never be an option." So she was like...

not even considering it, not even listening to the end of my sentence.

She was just saying, "No, I would never, never consider this."

There is pain, but the pain is like a kind of keeping secret.

The moment you really go through the door of pain

you enter to another state of mind.

This feeling of beauty and unconditional love and this feeling of...

there is no kind of borders between your body and environment.

And you start having this incredible feeling of lightness...

and harmony with yourself

It's something become like a, like a holy. I can't explain.

And that other state of mind is exactly what public start feeling

that something is different.

Performance is all about state of mind.

The public is like a dog.

They can feel insecurity, they can feel fear,

they can feel you are not there.

So the idea is how you can bring performer and the audience

in the same state of consciousness, here and now.

- Would you... - Take this table.

- Would you move it with me? - Can I put this down?

What is under the, the feet? What is under it?

It's nothing.

It's just a little glue to keep it in position.

Stay, Marina. Don't move.

It's so interesting that I could not do without table in the first two months.

I need to have structure. I need to have the table.

And the table have to kept there until I really got to the point

- that I actually don't need the table. - Let's switch it off.

And once this table is removed,

- it's so much more direct. - I'm, I'm gonna open it for you.

How do you feel about it? What do you think is the difference?

The difference is that there is no buffer from security point of view

there is no buffer between two of them.

You know, like if somebody is going to do something

there's nothing preventing someone from doing something.

That's the only thing I feel but we're just going to instruct everyone

that has to sit in front of her that you cannot move, touch or do anything.

She makes herself so much more vulnerable. It's so much more direct.

There's no obstacle between her and the audience. So she was right.

Priest doesn't need the cross.

- Put your numbers out. - What is this?

This is the self-imposed number system for Marina Abramovic.

We are almost done.

You said this in April, too.

These are details. You cannot grab a few minutes here and there.

- Few minutes? - What's one month, year,

- one week here, one week there. - You bastard!

- Don't need to concentrate on the... - On the details. - The details.

- You need to... - Big picture.

- Keep focused on the big picture. - That's right.

OK, I am fine.

You're fine?

The museum is now open. Walk! Walk, please! Walk! Walk.

- I think I'm 5? - She's 5, I'm 4.

Allora

One... Two... Three

I stand in the line several days, and I didn't get...get in.

- You've been sitting there? - Yeah, yeah.

When? - Yesterday I was there at 5:00 in the morning. I didn't make it.

It's very...

now at the end, it's very competitive.

People camping out all night, and waiting,

it throws open the whole kind of rock star question. Performance star. And...

basically, a groupie question.

You know, I think what's fantastically interesting about her work and this work

is the blank slate aspect of it.

What it brings out in everyone from the art world,

people that claim they know the work very well...

- (Which one is she?) - people that are part of this vocabulary

and this language

and then outright strangers.

And people that come in and go, "Well, why is she doing this?"

And that's endlessly interesting because what you're really seeing is this

giant canvas also of projections.

Marina's connection to the audience

comes out of this extraordinary lack that she feels, or she felt as a child.

She desires to be loved, she desires to be needed.

Marina does have the experience

that she needs the audience

like air to breathe.

That's the gasoline she is running on.

She lives for her art. She lives for the audience.

When I met her...

I thought: "Oh, God, she's in love with me."

And it took me a while

to understand that she is in love with the world.

So it's not personal.

"Don't take it personal. I'm in love with the world.

I'm not in love only with you."

I realize she is repeating this misunderstanding

with every single person in the atrium.

You OK, Mom?

What's the matter?

I'm OK. I'm proud of you.

I don't know if the public idolize me.

It's, it's their own thing how they project, but it's not my aim.

It's like, you know, if you come to the certain point of your career

you are idolized, you have the money and you are famous,

but this is not the aim of the art. It's just a side effect.

It's like a B-product.

I love B-product!

In a way, like, everybody's around, and you're kind of aware of them, but...

the connection with Marina is so strong that it doesn't...

- Really pushes it away. - It's... - (Is she acting, do you feel?)

No, but it's that... I mean, if you say it's acting, it's...

only thing maybe that's similar is that there are people watching you.

The sacrifice of oneself for a performance,

it seems that that's always involved in acting. - Maybe. Maybe.

- Are you an actor? - Yeah, yeah.

OK. You have that sense of... you have that presence.

Yeah, good.

May I have your attention, please? The museum is now closed.

Please return your MoMA audio program units to the desk

on the ground floor and collect your belongings.

You know that Tunji told me that 750,000 people saw the show?

This is like almost million!

I feel like we should prolong it for some month more so we can get the million.

Let's go. Let's go. This is for the, from the cook? The cook?

- Yes, yes, yes. - He's genius, this guy.

Who was this look, look, good-looking Asian man?

I like him.

Can we get some telephone numbers here? He was really nice. Sexy.

We are close to end!

After I saw Marina's exhibit the first time

I am, like, really inspired to get into performance art.

To make my own performance art and to... to do it.

And I feel like being here is actually, like, kind of a piece in itself, like...

dedicating this much commitment to her.

We are there, kids. Almost there.

Next time Saturday, I'm in the country. Which is really something.

I wish I had a number but I don't have one.

I came all the way from Australia to sit with Marina.

Do you need a number?

I am sad and happy... all together.

Marina, we're taking you past 53rd so you can see the queue.

For the last time.

They started, I think, Wednesday night, or Thursday night.

One girl had the great idea to come at...

around 10 P.M.

What? God.

And then for the day after, people just don't, they don't leave the place.

People that are like, they are up to sit.

They just get out of the museum and sit in front until the morning.

My God, this is amazing. This is the last day, you know.

I don't think anybody imagined... this.

What time is now? What time? It's now 10:13... 10:15.

- Can, can we do the chairs? - Sure. - We can do the chairs.

We already... we are already planning. I know what to do.

I'll give ya a piece of paper and then we'll do 15-minute intervals.

You'll just go out, tap the person on the shoulder

and tell them their time is expired.

Your time is up. Performance is over.

The museum is not going to open until 10:30.

But we are going to let 40 people in.

If you are not planning to sit in front of Marina, you don't have to come in now

You can wait until we open the museum so that we can give enough people...

21 times sitting with Marina has this powerful meaning

Were you expecting to be transformed or did you just

No, it was just, when I saw it the first time, I came

and, you know, wanted to experience it and then,

you know, everything, everything happened.

Get him back down.

We have come to sit with Marina, Whore of Babylon, and confess.

Speech superfluous, pure form against pure form,

the reflection of an emptiness full of value.

We have come as the last spectators before the Crucifixion.

We sit as Apostles at her table.

And our nonchalance betrays her.

And look, it's like, it's a matter of time

before firing someone in the face is gonna be art.

You're going to sit across from the artist in silence.

There are no distractions distractions of any sort.

No gestures, don't speak to the artist, don't move your hands.

- What's the matter? Are you all right? - Yeah. - You nervous?

- We've been waiting 16 hours. - OK, well...

your moment is coming up shortly.

All right, I'll let you know. Thank you.

Yep. Let's go.

Just finish

OK, we need... we need somebody sitting, please

Come on, let's go. I know, I know, I know.

We need to get... the performance needs to continue. Then you've got to wait for Tunji.

Really? We need... the performance needs to continue.

I think there's maybe still hope that I'll get upstairs so I'm like, I don't know

if you guys should be filming me.

So...

I would love to just sit across from her.

I mean, I didn't know it was a rule. I didn't realize.

And I would have obvi... I would have obeyed the rule if I had known.

But I wanted it to be spontaneous. I didn't want anybody to know.

You know, I wanted it to be like my own thing and special with her.

And I thought in that space, in that square, like, you get your own,

you know, it's like the, the audience is part of the art.

You know, and, and, and we bring to it,

and I just wanted to be as vulnerable to her as she makes herself to everyone else.

I actually think the exhibition is a self-portrait.

That's her. There she sits and she gives it all.

She always talks about the here and now.

But this piece, the title, "Marina Abramovic: The Artist Is Present"

that's a self-portrait.

She did create a charismatic space.

A little rent in the fabric of the universe

that was wholly her own that she occupied.

And she did it in a room filled with many, many people.

And many, many people felt that charismatic space...

as a reality.

That's an extraordinary achievement.