All language subtitles for The.Keepers.S01E07.720p.WEBRip.HEVC.2CH.x265

Some of these places
I haven't been in 20 years.

Just see it in my memory.

But I don't know how it is.

I'm a little curious myself.

Let's start off...

Would you like to see the dental office?

Dentistry is a very tough job.
A very tough job.

Well, I got the corner office here, guys.

That is my office.

Made a nice living out of it,
wound up with three dental offices.

Uh, never bought a practice,
I started from scratch.

Wound up with 12,000 patients.

Uh...

Yeah, it almost killed me.

I was a practicing dentist
with a drug problem.

Great dentist with a drug problem.

Getting sober took about nine years.

And do I blame, uh, Maskell?

Yes, I do. Do I blame myself?

Yes, I do.

I went to St. Clement's.
I believe I started in 1958...

uh, in first grade.

The summer
between my seventh and eighth grade...

I was an altar boy.

Masses back in those days,
in the summer, went six o'clock,

seven o'clock, and eight o'clock,
Monday through Friday.

They had a lot of Masses
because the parish was a thriving parish.

So, I would sit, say, a six o'clock Mass
or a seven o'clock Mass,

and I'd have to...
I'd ride my bicycle down.

That's where I met Father Maskell
for the first time.

Really got to...
Started to know the fellow.

By November of my eighth grade,
he was driving me home.

He'd say, "Put the bike in the trunk.

I'm gonna drive you home."
And we'd stop for a snowball.

I was the golden boy, I could do no wrong.

This is St. Clement's Church over here.
Father Maskell was associate pastor.

Look, this was the classroom.

Here was a classroom
for the seventh and eighth grade.

Father Maskell would come
into my classroom...

and ask to talk to me,
and he'd want to see me up at the rectory.

We're running up here.

This is the... The old rectory.

And at first,
it might have been once a week...

then it got to be where it was like
two, three, uh, times a week.

And a lot of times I...
From lunch until the day ended,

which I think was like 2:30,
I wouldn't be back in class.

I'd be up at the rectory
with Father Maskell.

Uh-uh. Is that it right there?

Unbelievable. It's hard to recognize it.

It's changed.

Didn't change much.
If I had to bet the farm on it,

I'd say that was his office right there,
because I dashed up.

Is that where the abuse happened?
Yes, yes, yes.

Father Maskell taught me
how to drink and forget problems.

Father Maskell taught me
how to, uh, take a drug

if, uh, I wanted to forget
about what was happening around me.

The first wine I drank
was out of a chalice.

Okay. And he said, "I have wine
that's left over from Mass,

can you take care of it for me?"

Because, you know, I was altar boy.

That's where it...
That's how it all started.

I knew the young Maskell.

And as he got older,
he got meaner, dirtier, and more evil.

So, if we get anything
out of this conversation today, okay...

if the Catholic Church...

would have dealt
with this properly back in '67,

and they knew about it...

there would have been no murder.

We... We wouldn't be here.

There you are.

There's a Cesnik if I ever met one.
Gerry.

Nice to see you.

How are you?
Fine.

I know.
I am now.

Thank you for coming.

It just makes me wanna cry,
the two of you getting together.

This just makes me wanna cry.

We've been talking about the ring.

I'm wondering if... Do you have it with...?
I do.

Yeah. The ring that I gave Cathy.

And I told them I could identify it.

That's it.

I have to tell you that that ring
was on Cathy the day she died.

The inside is engraved in Greek.

Agape is the unconditional love,

the characteristic supposedly
of Christians.

That's what the ring says.

Learning all this about Cathy,
I didn't know any of this.

I started going through my mother's things
and I found all this.

Somebody murdered her.

They need to investigate this.

My visit to the police was not...

Did not bring me any closure.

It opened up more questions to me.

It was August 1969,
she came home to Pittsburgh.

She wanted to explain
why she was leaving Keough

to those that she cared about
and those who cared about her.

When Cathy came home,
it was always so happy,

and we would stay up all night
laughing and talking,

but she wasn't her happy-go-lucky self.

She definitely was sad.

And at the time, I...

I attributed some of this to the changes
that were going on in her life.

Turns out, in the September
before she died, she came to see me.

Because by then she found out
that they were declining the experiment,

and that the order put her in...

Well, you either go back
into the convent, or you leave.

And I did know that she had
to give an answer by...

By December 31st.

So, at the time she died,
she had about six or seven more weeks

in which to answer the ultimatum
that she was given.

She said there's so much going on
in my mind now.

I think the experiment...

was here.

Mm-hm.
I think Gerry was here.

And I think the abuse was here.

Yeah. Yeah.

She had been in the convent
for so long

that my parents were concerned,
my dad especially,

that she was gonna struggle
with living out in the world, you know.

My dad said, "You don't pay bills.

You don't get a paycheck in the convent.

The world is a dangerous place
and you don't understand that."

And she said, "How do you know
my world's not a dangerous place?

How do you know there's not danger
in what I'm doing now?"

I questioned it for a time frame,
and I kept thinking

if she told me about the experiment,
she would've told me about the abuse,

but, um, the more I think about it now,
she would have never told me.

She was very protective of me,

being her younger sister,
still being in college.

And I can imagine
that heavy burden on her,

'cause Cathy never said
she was gonna do something she didn't do.

If she told them
she was gonna make it stop, she...

If that portion of all of this
is accurate...

all of these girls
can't all be telling a lie.

Cathy would have been working
to make it stop, no doubt in my mind.

Still... It's still a great puzzle to me.
Yes.

I mean, neither of us knew anything
about this abuse stuff.

This is the puzzle.
As part of the context.

And Russell...
Until 1994.

And what did Russell know?
Russell.

After Cathy died,
Russ just wanted to be separated

from anything related to convent life,

related to Cathy.

She wanted a new life.

So, Russ left the convent, got married,
and had two children.

I sold her a house, actually.

She moved out here to Carroll County,
and we did a lot together.

I had many conversations with her,
but it would never go in that direction,

she wouldn't allow it.

And I would say, "What happened?

Do you know more than you're saying?

Why can't you talk about it?"

And she'd say,
"My life is in a different place.

That was my life before."
That's what she'd say.

It was like, one day, she's gonna talk.

One day, it's gonna come out.

1997, I heard that she had cancer.

We stayed in touch.
I went to visit her in the hospital

when she had surgeries
and things like that.

A couple years pass, and it's 2001.

You know, the stories are out
in papers and all that,

and Maskell's name was being mentioned.

So, this friend of mine

was working as a nurse
at Stella Maris hospice,

and she calls me up and said,

"Pat, I want you to know
that Father Maskell died this afternoon.

But don't tell anybody,
I could lose my job."

So, that evening, not listening
to my friend, I called Russ.

That's the only person I called.

And I said, "Russ, I just want you to know
that Father Maskell died this afternoon."

And Russ's one remark was,

"Well, he went to his grave
with his secret."

Somehow, Russ did feel
that he was involved with Cathy's death.

And there was more to the story
than I knew.

And then I get a phone call two days later
from her husband...

saying that Russ died.

Then we get some, um,
Saturday afternoon ice cream.

Yeah.
Mm-hm.

I don't tell her
I put peanut butter right in it

because this is more of the protein
that I want her to get,

instead of just ice cream.

I do the best I can.

I was feeling feelings about my mom.

This feeling of that 16-year-old
behind that wall of lies,

just saying, "Where were you?"

You know, "Where were you?"

How she has been there for me
in so many ways,

but how to let that be enough
when she wasn't there for me

when this was going on.

So, what I did what I asked Abbie if, um,
I wrote something, would she post it.

"Hi, this is my first posting

on this wonderful grassroots
healing site.

As I care for my 88-year-old mother,

I'm painfully aware

of one of the many things robbed
from me by Joseph Maskell.

He took, deliberately and methodically,
my God-given right

to a deep, trusting relationship
with my mom,

and her right to be there for me."

The more that I am connecting
to the part of me

that survived after Cathy...

um... the more I'm beginning to...

To touch the anger.

The anger pushes you forward
and you start talking to people,

and being in front of a camera,
and you know...

You start to do things
that put your feelings and thoughts

out there for others to critique,
you know.

When I look back now

at all the different personalities
that we've met,

Jean stands out as someone
who has consistently told

the same story, and has, sort of,
a sense of personal integrity.

She's taking her own insights
and the implications of all this,

and trying to put the pieces together.

But she's probably not willing
to be definite about it

until she's absolutely sure.

Brother Bob is still,
to this day, faceless to me.

But my memory is beginning
to flesh out more and more.

Brother Bob said to me
that he knew Cathy Cesnik

and that, um, she was confiding in him

that she was going to the police
about the abuse.

And he hit her,
he didn't mean to kill her.

On top of repressing the memories,

the experience was so traumatizing

that it's pushed a lot of the identity
of this person...

Any facial identity,
that has not surfaced.

I do remember that he had markings
on his abdomen.

It was a birthmark or it was a mole
of some sort, right over on this side.

And he had a small incision
on the right side of his abdomen.

I understand that people are going
to wanna see if this one person,

me, who remembers what I remember,

can't remember a little more
to get a little clearer,

to get more of an identity
to who that Brother Bob is.

But I can't force myself
to remember anything else,

and in all honesty, I don't know
when and if that is surfacing.

Well, let me, um...
Just a little, Bob.

That's good for me.

I'll bet I can get it on my phone.

Yeah, I got it on my phone.

When Cathy went missing, Russell told me...
She said, "Cathy went shopping

to get you something
for your engagement."

I thought, oh, my gosh,
if we hadn't gotten engaged, you know...

You know how you think that?
If I hadn't gotten engaged,

she wouldn't have gone shopping,
and she wouldn't have been

in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You know, which...

The wrong-place-wrong-time story again.

She left to go shopping.
Other than that, I knew nothing.

So, I didn't know if she'd died
before she got to the store,

or after the store, or anything.

The entire mall was checked
by investigators from the city at the time

in an attempt to locate a store
that she may have gone into.

There was no indication

they were able to find
that she made this purchase.

Now, she could've made
a cash purchase and, uh...

they just weren't able to locate it,

but they never were able to make
that determination

whether she actually, um,
made that purchase.

I saw the necklace yesterday
for the first time.

And, um, in looking at it,
the bell would symbolize a wedding,

which makes sense, 'cause we had
just gotten engaged the week before.

Did you see this, Bob?
Yeah. Let's see it.

Yeah, it does look like bell, doesn't it?
It does look like a bell.

It looks like it'd be appropriate.
Yeah.

And... And your birthstone.

So, I understand this birthstone
is a peridot

and that would be an August birthstone.

My husband's birthday is in August
so, it could've symbolized his birthday.

You have to understand,
Cathy was very, very happy for me

that I chose Bob.

She really thought Bob
would take care of me forever,

and as a matter of fact, um,
Bob had gone to Vietnam for a year

and my sister wrote to him,

because she was trying to establish
a relationship with him.

If this is true,
this would be so typical Cathy,

because everything she did had a meaning
and everything was deep.

So, that would've been Cathy.

Totally.

Um, Edgar, I wanted to show you
these pictures.

You can flip through them.

Does that look familiar to you at all?

No.

That's jewelry or something.

Mm-hm.

It's a necklace that you gave
to your first wife for Christmas.

Do you remember giving that to her?

Her birthstone was red.

So, why would you have gotten her
a green birthstone, which is August?

I don't have the slightest idea.

We know Sister Cathy was out buying
a present for her sister.

And that, a month later,
you gave this necklace to your wife.

Did you show it to Cathy's sister?

Yeah, and Cathy's sister is wondering
whether that might be her necklace,

uh, because she knows her sister was out
buying her an engagement present

that night, and as you see
in that necklace,

it has a wedding bell...

it has a birthstone
that is the same birthstone

as the man that Sister Cathy's sister
was marrying.

So, she thinks there might be
some significance to that necklace,

and she's wondering
whether you might have gotten it

from Sister Cathy that night.

Means nothing to me.

Did you encounter Sister Cathy that night?

No.

Now, if people think that
that was the necklace

that Sister Cathy bought the night
she disappeared,

and you gave it to your first wife,

do you understand why people
are suspicious because of that?

Mm-hm.

There is a police report indicating

that when, uh, Sister Cesnik went missing,

we have an eyewitness
that saw a male driver

driving Sister Cesnik's vehicle
from the scene.

It appeared as though Sister Cesnik
was trying to exit the vehicle

on the passenger side,
but she never got out of the vehicle.

At the time the vehicle was recovered,
there was mud on the tires...

there was a branch inside the vehicle.

It was a twig, a small branch,

and it would be consistent with the area
where the body was found.

So, the driver would've been
the one to drive

from the area where the body
was located

back where the Carriage House was located,

because he would've been the last person
to operate the vehicle.

This might be urban legend,
and I don't know if it's in the reports,

but we've heard that, uh,
there was indication

that perhaps someone who drove

with both of their feet might have driven
the car at some point that night.

Does that ring any bells with you?

After they located the vehicle,

there was mud located, um,
on the brake pedal

but no mud recovered from the gas pedal,

which may have led investigators
to believe that the person

that drove the vehicle, um, used two feet
to, uh, operate the vehicle.

I'm just curious if by any chance
you drive with both of your feet?

What's that got to do with anything?

I was just curious because whoever drove
Cathy's car that night,

based on the mud on the pedal,
drove with two different feet.

I don't drive at all.

But back in the day?

Did you drive with two feet?
Yeah.

I had nothing to do with her
disappearance, her murder or anything.

What about other suspects?

We have talked to Edgar Davidson
quite a few times,

and he admitted that he is the person
who called The Jerry Turner Show

in the '70s to talk about evidence
about the murder of Sister Cathy.

Are you able to verify or confirm
whether he's ever been looked at?

No. I can't comment on anything
we're looking at currently

or any part of that investigation.

Some of the things I've commented on
is because you knew about them already,

and I can comment.

Then the other one is a neighbor
of Sister Cathy's named Billy Schmidt,

whose family we're working with,

and they are, for various reasons,
convinced that their family member, Billy,

who lived across the hall from her,
was involved.

As far as viable suspects,
current suspects,

I can't say anything
regarding what we're doing

or what we know about that.

I told detectives about it
that came to see me in the '90s.

They were reopening the case.

And I've told them everything that I know
about it just like I'm telling you.

I did ask them...

"I know you didn't have DNA back then,
but I know you have DNA today.

Did you find any cigarette butts
back there where her body was found?

Maybe Salem?"

I told them Bill smoked Salem,
and they looked at each other,

and the one said,
"Yeah, we did find some cigarette butts."

But I never heard how it turned out.

Well...

We... I can't tell you what,
but we have a piece of evidence

that was recovered
that we did develop DNA from.

And is that piece of evidence...?

Is that the cigarette
that I've heard about?

Yeah.
Yes.

Okay. And would that cigarette
most likely be linked to the crime?

It could be.

The reason we didn't really
wanna mention that

is because we're still...
It's still open investigation,

we still got a couple people
we wanna look at.

Okay? Um...

Let's just say this,
all the things you've commented on

are all very interesting to me.

And all of those things
will be re-looked at.

Any person in the past that was looked at,
polygraphed, brought in for interviews,

Koob, McKeon, Maskell,
several other civilians...

We are gonna revisit
a lot of these things.

And I do have hope that one day,
we solve this case.

Uh...

So, this is... Yeah,
these are the Malecki papers,

the old newspaper articles.

Four days after Sister Cathy was abducted,

a young woman named Joyce Malecki
was abducted and murdered.

"Understandably,
police investigators

and newspaper reporters
were intensely interested

in the possibility that there might be
some connection between the two killings,

but no such link between the murders
has ever been established,

according to FBI
and Baltimore Police officials today."

Growing up at a young age,

we went to St. Clement's
Catholic Church

and we went to Sunday school.

We would walk down to St. Clement's,
we'd go past 1st Avenue

and that was the rectory
where Father Maskell lived.

She was his parishioner.

The Maleckis lived two blocks

from the rectory and church
where Maskell was.

We knew that the rectory was there.

We knew Father Maskell was living there,

and you would actually feel honored
being of the Catholic religion

to be that close to a priest.

The priest that they were investigating

for Sister Catherine Cesnik's death,

Priest Maskell,

sent my mother a sympathy card
when Joyce had her funeral.

No one, said the wise men of the FBI,

has ever made a connection
between Maskell and Malecki.

Here's the card signed by Father Maskell
after Joyce Malecki is killed.

She was two blocks from the rectory,

she was going to Mass and confession,
and all the rest with Maskell,

and, uh, if the FBI and its 4000 pages
of stuff doesn't have this, I'd...

I'd feel even more disappointed in them
than I already am.

FBI had jurisdictions over
Joyce's death because her body was found

in a wooded area
at Fort Meade Military Base.

Tom Nugent had looked into it years ago,

and he was told by the FBI
that they determined

it didn't have anything to do with the,
you know, military or the government

and so they didn't do an investigation.

They had handed the case over
to Anne Arundel County.

Anne Arundel County Police said,
"FBI never handed anything to us.

We have no records, no case.
We never investigated anything."

Which left us saying,
did anybody investigate her murder?

I've been pursuing this
for the last 15 years.

Once a year, cold cases are reviewed,
but nothing's been done.

And my question is why?

I mean, I go to bed at night or I wake up
in the morning, and it's on my mind.

You know, who did this?

It doesn't go away.

I filed a Freedom
of Information Act request with the FBI,

who confirmed they had about 4,000 pages
of documents on Joyce.

It's been awaiting assignment
to someone to review.

Okay. So, in... This was September 5th
of 2014 I sent it in.

I began writing them a letter
every four to six weeks saying,

"Could you please update me

in terms of an anticipated delivery
of the documents?"

I naively thought,

"Well, in six weeks, we'll have this."

"The FBI's FOIA program

has identified potential response
of information for your request

and awaits assignment
to a government information specialist

for further processing."

This one's from January 2015, so,
five months or so after we sent it.

"Currently, your request
is in the perfected backlog

where your request is awaiting
assignment to an analyst."

There's a requirement on the federal law,

how long an agency has to reply
to your request,

but there is no law

about how long they have
to actually send you the documents.

When it first happened,

the FBI told us

that they did find fingerprints
in the car,

but they said they didn't have a name
to attach it to.

They also said they had forensic evidence

from her nails, where she apparently
put up a fight,

but they didn't have anything to go on.

And that was one of the questions I asked
about 15 years ago,

"If you've got fingerprints,

have you run them through
the National Data Bank?"

And they said no.

I said, "Well, if you got forensic
evidence, have you done any DNA on it?"

They said, "No." I asked, why?

They said, "Two reasons,
budget and manpower."

And that's the excuse I was given,

and led out the door.

"Dear FOIA Officer,
this is a request

under the Freedom of Information Act."

This one is dated February 2016.

"Thank you for your inquiry regarding
the status of your FOIA request.

The current estimated date of completion
for your request is April 2016."

Weeks went by.

April came and went
and I never heard anything.

I filed the original request
in August of 2014.

Coming in two and a half years.
Seems like a hundred years ago.

And two and a half years
and we have nothing.

The Maleckis feel like...
They've been abandoned.

Yeah.

Our sister Joyce
was 20 years old,

in the prime of her life,

and her life
being snatched away from her,

it's a crime and it needs
to be dealt with accordingly.

My parents have passed away,

everybody is going to pass away
at some point in time.

And when we pass away, then, they won't
have to hear from anybody ever again.

They can put it in their cold case file

and forget about it.

Somebody should talk to us.

If there's nothing, tell us that.

Just don't put us in a closet
and hope we go away one day.

Thank you, Mr. Chair,
Madam Vice-Chair,

members of the committee.

This bill was, uh... Been back and forth
in front of this body since about 2003.

For some reason,

this bill has been interpreted to be
an attack on religious organizations

and it's died repeatedly.

People would ask, you know,
25 years, you know,

they're grown people, right?

I was in combat, I was out of military by
the time I was 25, I'd served eight years.

Well, the problem
with this is suppression.

People don't wanna acknowledge
that it happened.

You've learned to live with the lie
as a child, so you can live as an adult.

Growing up, I was in foster homes

and I was adopted at some point

by Tom and Millie Wilson.

He was a, uh...

He was a school teacher, you know,
a Sunday school teacher,

a Cub Scout leader,
and he was a pedophile.

And so from, like, the ages
of eight or nine until about 16,

I endured a lot.

Why do we wait so long
to come forward?

I was 40 years old when I came forward.

It took me that amount of time

to focus my life
and make something of myself.

I'm 80 years old.

Anyway, I could have been
a much better father

and a much better...

husband, but anyway,
it affected me a great deal.

I want you all to think about something.

Everybody has a secret
that they don't want to admit.

Come up here and stand up here,
and admit it to everybody,

because that's what you're asking me to do

and that's what you're asking
a 25-year-old to do.

You're asking them to take
the deepest, darkest secret they have

and stand up in front of a jury,
and tell them.

I can testify that there are many victims

that were abused by Maskell

who have not even begun to live.

They live in quiet solitude.

I ask you to please pass this bill.
Thank you.

Thank you very much for your testimony.
Thank you.

All right. Uh... Now we're turning
to the opposition, Mr. Murphy?

My name is Kevin Murphy.
I'm an attorney.

I was asked by the Maryland
Catholic Conference to testify

because I've been involved in many,
many cases, uh, involving...

I was surprised
that the Catholic Church

was coming out against this.

This wasn't me against the Church,
it's what it's turned into.

Statute of limitations,

they spare the courts
from litigation of stale claims

and they spare the citizen

from being put to his defense
after memories have faded,

witnesses have died or disappeared,
and the evidence has been lost.

When I sat there and watched
Kevin Murphy talk,

he did bring back memories
in the Doe-Roe-Maskell case,

interrogating me back in '94.

And today, he stands up there speaking
as though he really cares

about people that are abused.

Are there any other values

that you think
the statute of limitations serves

other than for the weakness
of human memory?

Seven years is not a short
statute of limitations.

It's a pretty long statute of limitations,
but it protects from the alleged abuser

continuing to abuse for the next 13 years.

If you change the statute, 13 years can
go by before the person comes forward.

I stepped out at that point

because I knew I was gonna be angry.

How dare them say something so arrogant,

so transparently self-serving

as, "Well, the victims, they... We need
to pressure them to come forward."

Do you really?

I am opposed to Senate Bill 68
because I believe

our focus must be on providing outreach
to survivors of child sexual abuse

and preventing child sexual abuse
from occurring.

I understand that there may be reasons

that a survivor is not inclined
to come forward earlier,

but the reality is that the perpetrator
often remains in a position

of close access to children
until an allegation is reported

to the civil authorities and the employer.

They make it seem
like it's the victim's fault,

that if the victim doesn't step up
by the age of 25,

then they're the ones...

They're the ones to blame.

Now, that's every abuser's line, isn't it?

"This is your fault."
I don't need anybody to remind me

that me not speaking up
may have caused a lot of other victims.

Yeah.

That's utterly disgusting.

We have also reached settlement
agreements with many survivors,

even though their claims are time-barred
and we have no legal obligation to do so.

Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony.

That concludes the hearing
on Senate Bill 668.

That concludes the hearings for today.

Good morning.
I'm here to file some bills.

A bill can die without ever being voted on

because the chairman says so.

This is gonna end up costing me
my political career.

This interview might be the end
of me being a delegate, pretty sure.

I'll tell you that Senator Mike Miller,
who runs the Senate,

and Delegate Vallario,
do not let this bill come to a vote,

because they know if it came to a vote,
it would pass.

I mean, I know because
I've been told, specifically.

Joe has told me

the Church has contacted him
and said this bill can't pass.

They don't want that bill out,

so it doesn't get a vote.

Beyond the old separation of church
and state doctrine,

there should be something about this
that has you go, "Wait a minute."

Stories of abuse coming from people who
attended a Baltimore Catholic high school.

The archdiocese now paying those victims.

This all centers on a priest who died
in 2001, Father Joseph Maskell.

Now, at least a dozen victims
have just received settlements

from the Archdiocese of Baltimore.

Our desire would be that it never
happened to begin with

but short of being able to undo that,

uh, the best we can do
is try to bring them some healing.

When you're trying to make your life

and your suffering mean something,

but it's after the age of the statute
of limitations has been passed,

sometimes the only the thing you see
that you have left is mediation...

because you have been told you
can't go through the court,

you can stand on the street corner
and wave out a sign,

you're not gonna change anything,
so at least come in and talk to us.

"We'll offer you something."

I still have a hard time to, um, come here

and be anywhere near
the archdiocese.

I hope that you really don't think

that the survivors of Joseph Maskell,

at the ages we are,

are really coming here

for the little bit of compensation
that you're giving.

But having the opportunity
to say these things,

it's more important to me

than, um, anything else
that pertains to the archdiocese.

How this impacted on me?

I live small.

I can't go out beyond my boundaries.

The archdiocese had an opportunity...

back in 1992, '93, '94,

to do the right thing

and to help not just me, but,
I am sure, many other Catholics,

to know that they were not alone.

And instead...

I still feel very alone.

The fact the Catholic Church has taken on
the role as not only being the abuser

but also the savior, it's a dichotomy.
They can't explain it.

You can't... You cannot lay those
side-by-side.

It can't be them to solve this problem,

it must be the government that intercedes.

Whether you believe in little government
or bigger,

you must understand
that we do have a role.

We're the ones that make sure that
the citizens at large are taken care of.

It is only the government that can step up
and hold them accountable.

Come here, you little razzmatazz.
Over here.

You little rascal, come on,
you got company. We got company. Get...

Come on, you rascal.

Man, if I'm gonna show you that...

That's me, that's my brother.

We were both going to St. Clement's
at the time.

Again, I was the golden boy.

You know, that meant my shit didn't stink,
uh, is what it meant.

Now, where I made the mistake

was I told some of my friends,

"You gotta watch Father Maskell."

I didn't want the same thing
to happen to them.

And he just walked into the classroom.

Came over to me

and he grabbed me by my hair
and I'm telling you,

I thought he was gonna pull my hair
out my head.

He lifted me right out of that chair...

and said, "I wanna see your ass
in the rectory now."

And he says,
"Listen, you little motherfucker.

If I hear one more thing...

about you talking about me,

I'm gonna make sure you don't graduate."

He started making my life miserable.

Tossed me off the basketball team,
tossed me off the baseball team.

So, I was kicked out of CYO.

I was... I wasn't a golden boy anymore.

I... I now was in over my head.

I had to go home and tell my mother.

I had to go home and tell my mother.

And my mother, she wasn't one to
be fooled with, especially with the kids.

You know, "Don't go messing with my kids."

And this is for a fact,

I know, in May of '67,

the Archdiocese of Baltimore became aware

they had a sickie on their hands...

because my mother went down
to the archdiocese,

straight to the top.

"Father Maskell is abusing
my eighth grade son."

A day or two later

I get a phone call from the pastor
of St. Clement's, Father Collopy.

And I can remember this conversation.

He got on the phone and said,
"Charlie, listen. I'm just calling.

You're back in the CYO.

You're back on the baseball team.

Father Maskell is no longer here
at St. Clements,

he's been transferred."

So, they transferred Maskell to Keough.

So, I wanted to tell you
a little bit about Charles Franz.

You know who that is?
Mm, say. Tell me.

He was a boy at St. Clement's,
Maskell was abusing him.

Okay.
So, he went home and he told his mom

and says, "I know in May of 1967,
my mom went down to the archdiocese and..."

-1967?
Yeah.

That it led to disciplinary action
on Maskell,

and Maskell being sent from St. Clement's
to Archbishop Keough.

Wow.
And then particularly relevant to you

is something Charles told us
happened in the 1990s.

I'll tell you the story in the '90s.

I was a practicing dentist.

One day, a lady comes in as a patient.

She says, "The archdiocese
is trying to get a hold of you."

I said, "What?"

Evidently, there was a couple ladies
from Keough

who were suing the Catholic Church.

And so we arranged a meeting

and we met at my office.

And it was myself and my wife...

two canon lawyers,

plus a priest, Monsignor Malooly.

He started off with this, he said,
"I appreciate you meeting with us.

Let me tell you how important this is.

If Archbishop Keeler

was not in Rome...

he'd be here. He'd be here tonight."

And we had... I bet you it was a two,
two-and-a-half-hour conversation

about Father Maskell.

I hate to say Father
'cause he really wasn't a father.

You know, I...
And they were very interested in the story

and I told them about Maskell
being transferred, and they knew it all.

They knew it all.

And then at the end...

Monsignor Malooly says to me...

"Well, what do you want, Charlie?"

I said, "Excuse me, Father?"

He said, "What do you want?
You want a boat?"

"Do I want a boat?

No, I don't want a boat.
In fact, I got three boats."

'Cause I had three boats. Heh.

And then I said, "Father,
I didn't ask you to come here.

You asked me to come here.
You know, I... I...

I didn't know anything about this.
I don't want a boat. I'll tell you what.

What I would...

Would like to see, just do what's right.

Just do what's right."

We left, with you know,
"Perhaps we'll get together again," and...

And I never heard from him again.

Un-freaking-believable.

This Monsignor Malooly...

back in '93,

when the family and the friends sent out
letters to everybody anonymously,

um, put an ad in a paper.

Well, one of the letters that came through
was a letter from the archdiocese.

"To the extent you obtain any information,

it is my sincere hope
that you will advise me

so that appropriate action
may be taken by the archdiocese

to protect individuals
from potential harm."

From Monsignor Francis Malooly.

That was the guy who wrote that letter?

Wow.

Those fuckers!

My God!

See, see how do you...? I...

I don't know Charles...

but he is a legitimate corroboration
for me.

I had the letters from

Richard Way saying, you know,
"We can't corroborate any of this.

It's all about corroboration."

Corroboration, corroboration,
corroboration.

"Have somebody come forward who says
that they know that this really happened."

And they had somebody right there.

Amazing.

We've asked for the archdiocese
to participate, to go on camera

and give us their version
of the story of Maskell.

Every time, they denied something
on camera and, uh...

And so what they did agree to

was to give us written responses
to written...

Questions.

So, we finally got the responses
from them.

Well, before we... Let me preface this.
Am I gonna be pissed off here?

I don't know.

Okay, okay.

So, we asked them questions.
Okay.

So, I'll read them to you as the numbers,
and then I'll read you the answers.

Okay.
So, question number one.

"Was Jane Doe, Jean Wehner,
the first person to come forward

with allegations of abuse
against Father Maskell?"

The archdiocese's answer: "Yes.

Archdiocesan files do not reflect any
kind of abuse allegation against Maskell

before Jane Doe came forward in 1992."

That's a shame.

That's a shame.

Question number two.

"How and when did the Archdiocese
first hear allegations of abuse

against Father Maskell?"

The archdiocese's answer:

"See answer to number one."

Hmm.

They're lying.

They're lying.

Of course there was allegations.

Question number three.

"Were any disciplinary interventions made
against Father Maskell prior to 1992?"

The archdiocese's answer: "No."

That's it, just "no"?

This is disgusting.

This is disgusting.

He's saying nothing happened before me,

so... And Charles is saying,

"Oh, no, definitely, it did."

If you start saying things like,
"That never happened."

What you're calling me is a liar.

How about the meeting with Malooly?

What did that concern?

I'd love to hear the answer.

They knew my mother contacted
the Archdiocese of Baltimore.

They knew why Maskell
was asked to leave St. Clement's

in May of '67 and put at Keough.

They knew that.

I guess that, you know, buddy,
there are lies and there are lies, okay?

You wanna deal with that bullshit,

you might be able to get away with it,
okay?

And that's a lie.

Man.

I'm telling you...

and especially right after I finished up
this damn mediation

and they pick and pull
with every little tiny penny...

And they act like what you went through,

they care about,
and they could give two shits, really.

And some part of this

is really squelching people's anger,

and people's righteous anger,

and people's need for you
to make things public

and stop acting like it's...

That... That we're invisible.
We're not invisible.

Okay, here's the letter.

"Dear Seton Keough Alumnae and Friends,

it is with a heavy heart that I sit
and write this November message.

As I am sure you have heard, Seton Keough
will be closing its doors in June."

Many Keough graduates

are glad to see the circle closed,
the doors shut.

This piece of history destroyed.

I wasn't particularly a conspiracy
theorist, as I think of it, at first.

I was just interested in who hurt Cathy.

But the abuse angle of this just took off
running and grew and grew and grew.

I share the pain of my classmates,

who lived through some horrendous years.

At night when I can't sleep and I...

I say, "If I think about this a little
harder, I can figure this out,"

um, at 3 a.m.

It seems like

even when I try to look at her murder
as the work of a random lone wolf,

the abuse issues always come back in.

How are you?

I'm so happy to see you.

Jane Doe was led to believe
that she was the only one.

If Maskell had been nailed

the first time the abuse was reported,

then how do we even know
how many people could have been saved?

I personally know of 35 names

of abuse victims of Joseph Maskell.

Some aren't even living anymore.

There were suicides,
alcoholism, drug addiction.

And what happened to them set their fate.

If somebody...

had listened...

how many other lives could've been saved?

Cathy would be here.

She would still be here.

"Some people meet death
With open arms

And thank God their time has come

Others beg to be spared
For just one more day

Saying there's much to be done

But if we, before performing an act
Would stop and think of death

Of death, of judgment
And of all such things

I'm sure we would do our best

So that when our time comes, we may say:

'Take me, Lord, without delay'"

She was 16...

when she wrote that poem.

Cathy's life,

Cathy's death and this abuse...

this is all connected.

These girls have lived
with this all of their life.

I've lived with the loss of... Of...

My best friend, my sister,
all my life and I will carry that.

But they also have pain they are carrying.

And there needs to be a world,

there needs to be a place that we live in,

where people wanna see something
done about that.

Whoever murdered her
has gotten away with it,

and...

she's never gotten a bit of justice.

It has been almost 50 years,

since Cathy's murder,

but I do think it'll be solved.

I won't rest.

Mm-mm.

Can we find justice?

Can justice just be acknowledged
from the community

instead of waiting
for the stamp of approval

from the systems
that we usually get it from?

That's what the state
is supposed to be doing.

We can't have you be un-robbed...

or un-raped or un-shot.

We can't un-ring those bells.

What we can do is hold people accountable.

For many, many, many years,

I didn't remember anything,

and one of the first things that I started
remembering was Cathy Cesnik.

This woman, she died

to help stop what was going on
over there.

And because of the

Justice for Cathy group,
because of Cathy's sister,

um, having the courage to come into this

to ask questions and to kind of
find her own peace,

I'm finding another layer of that closure

where I can say, "Okay."

You can't bury the truth so deep
it doesn't come up.

I'm ready.

If I could speak for myself
and maybe others,

this is the opportunity.

It's like a little crack...

and I personally feel that what I'm doing,

facing my fear, is coming up to the crack
and saying,

"Hello, do you know we're here?

Is anyone out there?"

And it's still silent.

But we're hearing each other...

because we're all coming up to the crack.

And what's happening is,

is we're bumping into each other,

coming to the crack.

And before you know it,
the pressure of that voice

seeping through the crack
is going to shatter it.