Original subtitles

- [Matt] Alright, so let's start get into this.

(laughing)

- Okay.

All right.

- [Matt] And rolling, so the quick session.

- So I'm ready to give it the first take,

but one more question.

Is this so like my very quickly and I say thank you

for coming here tonight.

- [Matt] Right.

- I mean clearly that's not the courtroom version.

So today, okay yeah.

So just clean it up a little bit.

Ladies and gentlemen,

firstly let me thank you for being here today.

Now I will cut right to it in the next few minutes.

I will describe to you the who,

the what,

the why, and the where of this case.

Hello, my name is Rob Talach.

I represent the plaintiff.

There were 17 individuals in that you pled guilty to abuse.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You were convicted of that along with other

crimes in June of 2011.

- That's right.

- The plaintiff my client is seated here to my right.

His name is Mr. Rod MacLeod.

I bet some of you already have a pretty good idea

what this case is about.

You're about to hear the story of Rod's life,

a key piece of it is the sexual abuse he suffered

at the hands of Father Hod Marshall.

Most of these victims were boys

when you sexually abused them.

- [Hod] That's right.

- The other side of this case

is the Basilian fathers of Toronto.

They are a Roman Catholic religious order.

And most of these victims were boys at schools

you were working at the time you abused them.

- [Hod] Most, yes.

- They employed a priest by the

name of Father Hod Marshall.

- They employed a priest by the

name of Father Hod Marshall.

You've been convicted of sexual

offenses.

- That's right.

- [Rob] And you were sentenced to a two year prison term.

- Yes.

- [Rob] And you served 16 months

of that

and were placed on parole.

- That's right.

- Father Marshall was

originally part of this lawsuit,

but he died recently over the course of it.

- Is it fair to say that almost every school

you taught at you would have sexually touched the boys.

- With a few exceptions, yes.

- You will be tasked at the end of this case

with determining the level of financial compensation

that Rod will receive.

Where will this money come from?

It will come from the Basilian fathers.

Let's take some of that money they've amassed

and put it back where it really

belongs

into the hands of a victim of Father Marshall.

Mr. Rod MacLeod.

And ladies and gentlemen, that's what punitive damages

are for: to denounce and deter that type of misconduct.

(dramatic music)

(bell rings)

- I decided early on that I felt

that it was my duty.

Yes, I'd been silent for 55 years,

but now I had to do the opposite.

I had to open the window and

vent all of what had gone on.

In order to finally start to set the record straight.

Not just for myself, but for all the others

who'd been sexually abused just

as I had.

Well in some ways I think of the

church

as the main perpetrator.

Yes, they didn't physically do,

but what they did was they enabled the physical

perpetrator to hide, to move, to

do again

over, and over again.

Why would they do that?

Why would they allow someone to sexually abuse

children in their care?

(somber music)

(bell rings)

So long ago.

Yet, it's like it was yesterday.

And you see this is exactly the way it was back then

when I was here.

No question.

It brings back that that feeling of having to flee

and getting ready to flee.

It's disturbing.

When the one that you have to flee from

is in such a position of authority and respect.

It's not like a school bully or

something

that you can just run away from.

See if he comes around the corner, he's got ya.

It was always a game of cat and

mouse.

And of course I was the mouse.

(somber music)

(sobbing)

(beeping)

- Hi, it's downtown Tesla.

Your car's ready for delivery.

(light music)

- That's it, sweet.

Here you go.

You guys came in far away.

- Oh, okay, thank you sir.

- All right, thanks again. - Thank you, thanks.

- Take care. - Okay.

- I have been called the priest hunter before.

I don't see priest hunter as a derogatory term.

I mean the priest that I'm hunting deserve to be hunted.

And someone else should have hunted them out long ago.

Namely the church itself.

Rod's case went to trial because

Rod's singular motivation

was to make a difference.

Well most cases end in settlement because

there's pressure on both sides to do it.

There's shame and apprehension on

the victim's side.

And I think there's a lot of PR factor especially

for Catholic entities, scandal factor that they wanna avoid.

So I'm done for today.

Sir, thank you.

And I believe no other counsel have questions.

Am I correct on that?

Heads are nodding.

Yes, so we can go off the record.

- I am the public face of the Basilian fathers.

Hod Marshall was someone that I

walked

with through this whole

journey from the very first day

I was in the office as the vicar

general

till the day he died

and I had people in my own community angry

and upset with me that I was doing that

so graciously and lovingly.

But, the only answer I could give them

was that I had to because he was my brother

and we don't abandon our brother when things get tough.

We journey with them through their own,

their own death and resurrection hopefully.

(light music)

(dramatic music)

- With the percentages being about one or 2% of these cases

go to trial.

Sex abuse trial lawyers are kind of like firemen

that never leave the fire hall.

When you get the call and you get in the engine

and your head into the fire

and you're actually gonna fight

a fire you're gonna do a trial.

It is very exciting.

- Rod MacLeod's case went to trial

because all of our attempts at settlement

through mediation were unsuccessful.

Mr. MacLeod felt that we were not being fair

and just in what we were willing to offer him

as a settlement.

- [Rob] All right, this is the totality of documents

they provided us on first request.

Marshall became a novice in 1942

and we know he was at least still acting in 1996.

- [Rod] Yes, 54 years.

- And there's not a stitch of paper in his

personnel file that they initially provided us

that says: he's an abuser,

he has an issue with kids,

he's been in medical treatment anything.

Nothing, nada.

We're sitting here on the eve of

a trial.

A lot of people after they've been victimized

especially for multiple times over multiple years

as children and then lived a very dysfunctional life.

They don't have that ability to

deal

with the psychological stress.

I think Rod felt that he got on to this a little late,

wasn't able to participate in the police prosecution

and so his cross to bear was to

take

this to a public trial.

Rod unlike most victims was in a

situation

financially and psychologically

that he could do that

and not a lot of victims a lot of survivors can.

When we started sniffing around they came out

with a confidential memorandum.

Norman Tank priest reports to Robert Barringer priest.

In the course of our conversation Father Marshall

volunteered that this was not the only incident.

His estimation is that there may

have been

around two to three high school boys per year

from the early 1950s until 1979.

The only note about him is very

pious.

His great interest in boys makes him neglect

his theological studies.

- [Rod] Yeah, right.

So if the guy that wrote this knew that he had been caught

abusing a boy he would look probably be

more concerned about his great interest in boys right.

- Yeah.

- This goes to show that either they didn't care

or they didn't pass on the information.

(dramatic music)

Ladies and gentlemen, let me begin by first

thanking you for being here tonight.

I am a lawyer, my name is Rob Talach.

I represent the plaintiff,

Mr. Rod MacLeod and Rod as you will soon find out

is suing for something horrible that happened

to him when he was young.

The sexual abuse of Rod over many years

when he was an adolescent at the

hands

of Father Hod Marshall.

The only defendant is the Basilians,

they knew that Marshall was abusing boys

and they did nothing.

Imagine this they take young men that wanna be priests,

they train them to be priests,

but they also qualify them as teachers.

They take an oath of poverty.

They send these priests out into the world.

And when it comes time for these Basilian priests

to get their teacher paycheck, they don't.

All the paychecks, all the money

goes

to headquarters their big business.

Look we got four years of abuse over his teenage years.

We've got fondling, we've got he'd lost his virginity.

He was sodomized at least once.

A priest and a teenage boy.

This is devastating stuff.

You find me many abuse cases that are worse than this.

Father Marshall did abuse Roderick MacLeod.

It did happen.

This proceeding is about determining the damage

and then compensating Mr. MacLeod for that damage.

In this case the Basilian Fathers that I represent

accept that damage has been done.

The crux of this matter is that the evidence

does not support the degree of damage that Mr. MacLeod

and his counsel are asserting.

This is not an exceptional

case where Basilian Fathers act

in a malicious, offensive,

or high handed matter toward Mr.

MacLeod.

And consequently there is no place for punitive damages

against them in this matter.

Thank you.

- [Rod] He'd start by tickling you and then very quickly

it would become sexual fondling.

- [Rob] Had you had any sexual interaction with anyone

prior to this?

- No, no. - Okay.

Does he ever get you to orgasm?

- He does.

- [Rob] Is that your first sexual experience?

- Yes.

- Okay, and does this carry on over the grade nine year?

- It does.

- At what frequency or rate?

- It could be as frequent as three times a week.

But certainly no less than once

a week.

- What were your fears if someone else had found out?

- Well I believed that, I know,

I was just a kid and here was a priests so obviously

it'd be my fault and I'd be expelled.

My parents would probably not wanna have anything

to do with me

and all of that

Eventually one time it ended up

with him

penetrating me from behind.

- Sodomy? - Yes.

- [Rob] Looking back with the wisdom of years

and some psychological guidance.

What is the big effect that you wanna leave

with these people?

- Well it's just this overwhelming feeling of

not being worthy.

(sobbing) And even after five years of working through it

and being aware I still have not gotten over it.

- I'll end there.

With your permission I'd like to

give them

a couple of minutes.

- [Juror] I was not convinced

that the abuse led him to make the decisions that he made.

I just was not convinced.

I thought the defense's arguments were strong.

- It is about is this person in

pain.

Have they suffered?

We just had a gentleman stand up

in a room

with over 15 complete strangers

and completely lose his shit

right in front of us this person

clearly is in pain and clearly is suffering.

- At no point in time did he seek

diagnosis from a psychiatrist or

receive

a diagnosis that would look at PTSD or depression.

- [Juror] The pain and suffering only really

became apparent as of that point.

- In the end there is no question

that the interference that he experienced

at a young age and the responsibility

of the defense.

It did.

It was enough.

They do need to be responsible financially

for that in the end.

- [Juror] He's cheap!

(laughing)

- [Rob] The jury that started in here, Jason?

Can you present your findings?

- How much do you award

the plaintiff for his pain and suffering?

And we agreed on 200,000.

Do you award the plaintiff any money

for the impact of his past earning capacity, past loss?

And if yes, how much?

We decided a million.

Do you as a group award the plaintiff any money

for the cost of future counseling

and medication and 50,000 was what we decided

and for punitive damages for the

conduct

of the Basilians?

We awarded one million.

- [Rob] All right, thank you.

(pensive music)

(ringing)

Hey Rod, how are you?

- [Rod] Good Rob, how are you?

- [Rod] Good Rob, how are you?

- Let me just update you on some stuff that just occurred.

Ok?

- [Rod] Yeah.

- [Rob] I have heard from Miss Metzler.

She's pretty polite in this email trying to keep

the demeanor and the tone between us conducive

to maybe a settlement talk.

- [Rod] Right.

- So, I tell you that I guess in partial warning

in preparation that they may dive into settlement

efforts on Monday and we'll talk a little bit

about that on the eve of on Sunday.

And what we wanna do in response

to that.

I mean I understand the simple position

that you have right now.

And I appreciate it being that simple

is there is there offer take it or leave it, right?

- Right. - Ok.

- [Rod] I hope they leave it.

I don't want them to take it.

- Right, right.

And I've warned you previously that this is their style,

to drag the client or the victim

through years of litigation, make the lawyers do everything

and you do everything

and then show up with a checkbook on Monday morning.

Ok, so subject any questions I'm

gonna get

back at it.

- [Rod] Ok, sounds good.

(somber music)

When the trial is done so I could end up

actually owing money.

A big bill that I'll have to pay for the rest of my life.

It's a very real danger that exists out there.

That can shake you right to the

bone,

but I try to just focus on my brothers who went

through the same thing that I have.

- I work in finance, and costing, and accounting over

the course of my career.

And if you ask my family they would quite

succinctly say I love numbers.

I tend to analyze things in that manner from

a numeric perspective a dollar and cents perspective.

And it works for many things.

It doesn't work for sexual abuse.

I have spent most of my life blending

into the background.

When I'm not doing that?

When I'm standing up and being heard.

I am pushing myself with everything I have to be there

and I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.

It all begins for me really before I was born.

Marshall was part of the family almost like

the family pastor.

He would often stay at our house.

He was certainly welcome in our house anytime he wanted

and having a priest staying in the house

was an honor to my family,

I guess that was probably how they looked at it.

He abused me in my own home,

in my bed and it just happened that my bedroom

was the one that abutted my parents our beds

shared opposite sides of the same wall.

And he was there in the night in my bed with me.

As an adult I look back now and say all I had

to do was knock on that wall.

And my parents would have been coming in there

right in a hurry.

I struggled for many years as to why I didn't do that

and I felt a lot guilt about that.

I kept it to myself for a very long time.

A big part of my life was just

wishing I could

disappear off the face of the earth.

(somber music)

- In previous years I had followed

the criminal trial of Father Marshall and Patrick McMahon,

of course, was a huge part of that case.

He was the first one to lay a criminal complaint

in decades against this priest.

So when Rod's case came to Toronto.

He said, Patrick phoned me up and said here's

a case you might wanna follow.

And I thought, I'm gonna be there.

- Attending the trial was never a question for me.

I wouldn't have missed it for anything really.

My objective was the exposure of

his enablers

in the church and that is the bigger issue,

that is the truly the bigger crime.

- [Rob] So we're set to start a jury trial in Toronto

which should run between three and four weeks.

This civil setting allows the victim, the client,

to control the process and allows them to say

how far it's gonna go, how intense it's going to be.

And that is extremely satisfying and cathartic

for a lot of my clients.

And I like to think that you know it is even more so

than the money they ultimately receive.

- I'm actually quite surprised

that with what seems to be coming out more

and more with the church scandals is that there's

not more of a flood of them.

There still seems to be a lot of this under wraps.

I had expected at some point the lid would blow off.

That hasn't happened here and I

find that

a little surprising that maybe because there have been

so many settlements with non-disclosure agreements

as part of them.

- [Rob] Is this the courthouse that the pre trials are in?

Though the tactical advantage

of me having to go first is that I get the reply, right?

- [Aaron] But, we have no idea

what their argument is going to

be.

- [Rob] Right, right.

- [Aaron] And the judge might just take

control of the whole process and start firing questions

- Right.

(somber music)

Well I think the first shocking

impression

is when you walk into this courtroom it is small.

I mean it's the size of a high school classroom really.

The judge is slightly elevated in the center

of the far end of the courtroom he's not on

this massive pedestal like you picture in Hollywood movies.

The judge for the trial

was his honorable Justice Arthur

Gans.

Who is someone I immediately Googled when I got his name

and he's a colorful character, very outspoken.

- The jury was a mix of male and

female;

more females than males.

There was a good mixture of ages although more on

the high side than the low side.

- The lead defense lawyer is Susan Metzler.

Where Susan and I differ you know I think her

specialty if I can call it that

is defense

of Catholic churches and entities.

So we see her on a lot of files

across the country frankly.

You know the joke is you know who's Superman

and who's Lex Luthor?

We each have different opinions

on that.

We each have different opinions

on that.

But, yeah I know Susan well.

- [Rod] And then behind all of us was the gallery.

- I kind of had this emotional thing going on of the day

has finally arrived I'm here.

There they are in court answering for their crimes,

even though I'm only here as a observer.

The defense side had their two lawyers

and the church representative.

- I felt like I was in a tomb.

I was very much aware of the fact that there were

a lot of eyes watching me to see how I was going

to respond to anything that was

being said

or anything that was being done.

It was pretty heavy duty experience.

- We had already met,

he greeted me by name.

I knew Susan Metzler having dealt with her in my own suit.

When they say: Hello Patrick, how are you?

I wanna say well I'm terrible.

I was sexually assaulted as a child and I had

to spend years fighting you two.

You wanna know how I am?

Come to my house sometime and we'll spend

five hours talking about it.

But, instead I said I'm fine, how are you?

- Ladies and gentlemen, firstly let me thank you

for being here today.

You are about to hear the real life story of Rod MacLeod.

Of his 68 years, his triumphs and his tragedies

of his time here on this planet.

And in order to do that, he will at times have

to bare all on this stand.

And you may feel that he is on trial.

But, he is not.

He is the plaintiff.

It is the defendants that are on

trial

for the conduct of Father Marshall and themselves.

Well my opening statement was designed to set

a theme to the trial, which a good opening should.

It was to introduce them to Rod and Rod's story life.

And it was also frankly to get them a little

irritated early on about what the Basilian fathers

did and didn't do in this case.

Marshall was like a toxic barrel

of waste

and every time he abused that barrel leaked.

And every time there was a complaint the Basilians

were alerted to the fact that the barrel was leaking.

And the reaction was simply to move it

to another community and not tell that other community

that it was a leaky barrel.

- The experience of listening to Mr. Talach

describe Hod Marshall as a leaking barrel of toxic waste.

My initial impulse remember I was in the military.

My initial impulse was to tackle

him down

onto the ground and throttle him.

But it was it was an awful moment.

Because, yes he did awful terrible things.

But we have to always remember that he was also

someone who was suffering from a terrible disease

that we didn't know about at the time that he was

doing the stuff that he was doing to young people.

He's a pedophile and a very good pedophile at that.

- I don't like talking about it.

But, people need to know the truth.

I didn't know where to start.

All I know is I wanted to see some justice done.

It was just, what I had to.

(somber music)

Good morning.

You know like the lone wolf howling at the moon.

Nobody listening.

- He might say look, I got it Miss. Metzler

In the face of this law, what are you relying on?

I think that's probably what will happen.

Rod was our first witness which is the norm.

And we took a lot of time with Rod because I wanted

the jurors to reach a conclusion

and understanding about Rod before the defense got in

there and tried to poke holes in it through

the cross-examination.

- Well the most difficult part is going over the details.

For 55 years, I had buried it

and had not spent any time whatsoever

thinking about it to the very best of my ability.

It was extremely difficult.

The only way that I could do it was I had promised myself

that if I was going to trial that I

wasn't going to leave anything out.

That I was going to try and purge myself 100%

of everything that had happened.

By going into the memory and speaking it out.

Hoping that that would help to finally start

to heal the wounds.

(somber music)

- It goes without saying it's difficult

because he's telling the story of his life

and we're drilling down into the intimate details.

His sexual history, all the failures, financial,

personal, everything that hasn't worked out for him,

we have to touch on because that

goes

to the effect and the damages.

So, I mean it's difficult for anyone to sit there

and talk about their failings for two days.

But, it's especially difficult for a victim

of sexual abuse to do it.

- Father Katulski was watching

very intently he was observing everything

and talking to his counsel.

This was important because it would appear

that the Basilians were going to accept some of the abuse

that had happened to Rod MacLeod.

- Listening to Rod's story just

moves me

to a profound sense of sadness inside of myself that it

even had to happen.

Because it shouldn't have happened.

- [Rod] It made me feel much more empathetic

towards rape victims.

The victims are too often subjugated to innuendo

and to all kinds of

very hurtful painful experiences.

The victims just end up being victimized even more

by the justice system.

- Did I believe all of Rod's testimony?

To the best as any human person can without

knowing everything and having been there themselves.

He was credible, yes.

- So there's an offer on the table as you know.

It's substantial.

You wanna take it and be done?

Or do you wanna go on?

My recommendation is to proceed.

Aaron?

- It's a good offer,

but at some level it's a personal decision.

You've had our advice.

That's a decision you're gonna have to make.

- Well you see the problem is that if I accept it,

I'd live to the end of my days thinking

why the hell did I do that.

- The church can't understand somebody who

isn't about the money because all they're about

is the money.

And I think the proof is if you took a priest like

Marshall and he was the bursar and he went

to Rochester stole all the new building fund,

would they have simply just moved him to Toronto

and put him in charge of the bursary for St. Mike's

and he steals all of that.

And then when they have simply moved him

to Assumption where he becomes the bursar again

and steals all the money would they put him in

as a bursar again?

Would they even keep him as a priest?

- [Aaron] No!

- So I think the fact that it isn't about the money

they just can't grasp that and they

think at some point they're gonna be able

to put sufficient pieces of silver in your hand

because they do view as Judas

and that you're gonna close your

fist

on that walk out the door and everything's good again.

I think the fact that they don't

know who

they're dealing with is our greatest strength.

- I wanna go on.

- So to put the million dollar offer in perspective,

it's about three to four times what

the average good case settles for.

I do what my client says and there was,

I had two emotions one was wow,

we really better do well here.

But the second one was kind of,

yes!

But the second one was kind of,

yes!

We're gonna be able to finish this we're gonna be able

to get a verdict and we're not gonna have something

where the church can just buy us

out at the 11th hour.

To have a client like Rod that says damn the torpedoes.

Let's take this to the end, was very encouraging.

- There are many things that the

church

can do so much better in this area.

What about the bishops, cardinals,

fellow priests who knew?

I don't see these people being called to account.

Who's being kicked out of the church,

defrocked, and cut off all ties from the church

because they moved an abuser around?

I don't see that happening.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel.

Pray for me.

Don't talk to the victims.

Don't want know.

Apparently, I am no one's brother.

- Are you the fellow who was in the paper, right?

- [Patrick] Good morning, I've been in the paper.

- It makes me sick because I know,

like I knew Marshall and I knew Father Campbell

was another one.

- [Patrick] Yep, just more than more than we can count.

The justice I wanted was I wanted it to be known

who he was and what he did and I

did.

I was the first person to have charges laid against him.

He went to jail, for 19 victims.

- Wow.

- [Patrick] Oh that was just a small portion

he abused for 50 years.

And he went to jail for 18 months for 19 victims.

So that was three weeks

he served for me. - How old was he when

he went to jail?

- [Patrick] Late 70s I'm gonna say.

He had his whole life.

He abused children and moved on

from city

to city and school to school.

Every time he did it.

They moved him again.

- [Woman] You know what you're gonna do?

They're going to pay out millions and millions

of dollars and then they're going to come to us

'cause they need more money.

- [Patrick] They just settled with the insurance company

for millions, but the amount is confidential.

So you give them your money and they decide

what to do with it and they won't tell you that.

- [Woman] Something has finally got to be done.

If nobody went to church any more for a few weeks.

That would do it.

- [Patrick] You have a good day.

Thank you for speaking with me.

- [Woman] Thank you.

- So part of the story of Rod MacLeod is the story

of Father Marshall before Rod.

So we had attempted to bring in some walking,

talking, living victims of Father Marshall from

the decades before Rod and specifically ones

that had reported Marshall.

(somber music)

- Walking into the courtroom made me ill at ease.

Reliving in my own mind the experience

of Marshall assaulting me was very unnerving.

It was, it was painful.

It was hard to do.

It's hard to hold your emotions

back when you describe it.

- The day I walked in to Rod MacLeod's trial

I wasn't intimidated whatsoever.

I've been there before in a trial venue.

So I spoke the truth and that's what I basically

always have said regarding Father Marshall.

There's nothing, no pretenses,

nothing to be shy or afraid of.

So, I spoke my mind freely.

- There was no personal, financial,

or any other incentive to be there other than

to expose the church for what they really are

and what they've done to me and other victims

of Marshall and others.

- The abuse with Father Marshall

started late October 1969.

(somber music)

Father Marshall asked me to remove my shorts.

I was afraid.

As I lowered my shorts he came up to me, grabbed my penis.

He whispered in my ear and he gritted his teeth.

That smile of his.

If I tell anybody, I will be going to hell,

he whispered in my ear.

- He stopped me in the hallway

and brought me into an empty classroom and he began

to assault me there by putting his arms around me.

Pinning my arms down and then putting his hands

inside my clothing to fondle.

A priest opened the door, walked in, turned around,

and said excuse me, walked out again.

He could see exactly what Marshall was doing.

He used to bring me back to his room and refer

to it as a workout.

He was assaulting me in his bedroom

when another priest walked in and had somebody with him

and said, "Oh this room is busy."

The attorney for the Basilian say that:

"Is it possible that they didn't

see you?"

"Is it possible that they didn't

see you?"

Ya, bastard.

I said only if they had their eyes closed.

- I asked my parents to sit down

at the kitchen table and I told them what happened.

So my father came after school about 3:10.

My father couldn't speak English that well,

but he says my son says Father Marshall touched him

in a inappropriate way.

And Father Rococo sort of laughed,

"And your son I've talked to Ted's teachers,

"He's a good student but he tends to exaggerate.

"He has a very vivid imagination."

- I was looking for help.

Hard to find.

Well I went into confession at Sacred Heart Church.

I didn't come out with the

normal ritual of bless me Father

and all that.

I said I have I have a problem.

And I did not describe it.

And he said: "What is it?"

I said a Catholic priest was touching impure parts

of my body.

I didn't even know how to describe it.

And he said: "What did you do?"

Stop doing that.

It's your fault.

- The language of cover up

that speaks of some kind of intentionality on the part

of individuals who are deceased,

that I don't have any documents

of,

people who I've respected and knew

as good men and good priests.

I believe in my heart of hearts,

at least from my community perspective,

that they were doing what they felt

was the best practice of the day.

- For them to deny knowledge is totally inappropriate.

I know better and they know better.

- Marshall would never have imagined

that generations of his victims

would be coming together

in the same courtroom to indict

him.

And that's what we're doing here.

I would think most right thinking people

would have difficulty with the transfer, after transfer,

after transfer, after transfer, after transfer,

with a report of sexual abuse at each of these locations.

And the thing that I think will

be in,

give the indigestion the most is in 1992 when they find

out he's abused upwards of 50 boys or more.

- [Aaron] And they don't tell the police

they don't tell CAS they don't even reach out to try

to find victims. - Nothing.

Yeah just close the book on it.

So, that's gotta be 1996.

Nobody can say we didn't know and it was a moral failing

and we didn't know better.

The most educated international

worldly group of folks.

A subunit of the Roman Catholic

Church

A subunit of the Roman Catholic

Church

is basically using the defense of: duh.

To say we didn't know better is gonna stink up

the whole courtroom.

So on one of the breaks I went to the washroom

and about the same time Father Katulski came in behind me,

and we're both at the urinal, side-by-side,

sort of awkward and I would normally say something

to sort of break the awkwardness.

But, as I was about to I heard a whimpering,

crying clearly from a grown man.

But, the sort of thing you'd hear from a boy

and it was coming from the stall in the bathroom

and I quickly realized it was one of the victims

who had come to testify or watch

that day.

And I just remained silent.

I thought it was important for Father Katulski,

who was a representative of the

church,

who was a representative of the

church,

to hear that, to hear the pain that was still emanating

from a grown man for something

that happened decades before.

So we just sat there quiet in the bathroom

and listened to this whimpering.

- If anyone witnessed that I have no problem

with that at all if it affected

them,

seeing the true impact of these

crimes

on just one of many victims.

Maybe that's beneficial in some

way.

I don't know, but I always think

the truth

is the most beneficial thing to present to people

and that was my truth.

Part of my truth.

- [Matt] Do you remember that day?

- I do remember that day, yes.

- [Matt] Can you tell me what you were thinking?

- What I was basically

thinking was that this is a man

- What I was basically

thinking was that this is a man

that needed someone to be with him in his grief.

And I was not unfortunately the

person

that could do that and be that.

That's what I was thinking.

(pensive music)

Dr. McMaster was the specialist that we had,

the expert that we had who did an interview

of Mr. MacLeod and gave his psychological opinion

of Mr. MacLeod.

- Dr. McMaster had a very Clark

Kent look.

He was very confident, he was very sure of himself

and there would be no real debate I am going to give

this testimony and we don't really need

to discuss it because you don't know nearly as much

as I do, so just take my answer and we're done.

- So, Dr. McMaster who is routinely hired

by the defense and the church.

His job is to frankly to find any other reason why

Rod had difficulty in life and or to say hey

these weren't difficulties at all.

- Dr. McMaster seemed to indicate

that it would be highly unusual

for someone to be that badly affected through

the balance of his life.

(somber music)

- He believed that my sexual abuse

was in the low end of the scale.

In meeting other victims the effect that it has on them

is so profound for so long, so fundamental,

that I can't understand how a psychiatrist,

how he could be so completely

ignorant of the

effects of that abuse.

- [Rob] Okay, so Rod.

You didn't like me attacking him.

Do you still hold that opinion?

- Well I don't like the idea of you being another--

- Susan. - Susan!

So if you're going to attack him you have to do

it with a-- - a sympathetic, polite.

- Yeah, as though your not attacking him at all

that you're just clarifying things.

You know the way that judge did.

(laughing)

- Afternoon Doctor can we start with some agreement

before we disagree.

Because I'm sure we will.

Can we agree that assessing victims

of sexual abuse is not your main expertise.

My interaction with Dr. McMaster

involved

a level of frustration and disdain,

because this is a professional whose job

is to aid the court.

And he was really deep into advocate territory.

Your focus has been assessing the people

that make the victims, the offenders, right?

And I think that fueled me to do

a more

aggressive and hopefully effective

cross-examination of him.

Remember Kathryn Thompson from Barrie?

She's a babysitter that made child pornography

with the children that she was entrusted to

and also engaged in bestiality.

- [Jeff] Yeah.

- [Rob] You provided an opinion to keep her from being

a designated long term offender,

right?

a designated long term offender,

right?

- Rob Talach did not have any kind words really

for Dr. McMaster on his cross.

Talach was I think rather dismissive

in his cross-examination and he actually accused

Dr. McMaster of being some sort

of puppet

for the defense.

(somber music)

- Alright, so I'm gonna call Rod in a second.

But, I mean part of me says today went well enough

that I could end.

Because I mean just think about that for a minute

what if he goes home does his homework and comes back.

Wouldn't it be great in the morning to ask him

a couple questions that are key before he sees

that window to throw his repair

jobs in.

And then I just go boom I'm done.

- You know I think that the more

he talks,

the more the judge and the jury seem to turn against him.

Like when he suggests that Rod could derive

some self esteem.

- Oh my God. - From the abuse by Marshall.

The juror at the end totally lost it.

(phone rings)

- [Rod] Hello.

- Hey Rod, how are you? - Good Rob, how are you?

- A decision that we were just discussing is do I do

the short version tomorrow or the long version?

In other words, this doctor is probably gonna go home.

Actually he is gonna go home and he's gonna get

into the books and try and rebuild himself tomorrow.

- [Rod] I think we're in a

pretty good position right now.

I sure would hate to see that be

eroded.

Just cut it short and get rid of

him.

Dump him.

- Look I want you to leave with this thought.

Part of what you're doing here is to create ripple effect,

bigger good in society beyond this right?

- [Rod] Yeah, exactly.

- You have eliminated an enemy of the victim today

and I'm gonna say in closing this is the guy

that the church chose to represent them.

- [Rod] Yep.

- Says volumes of the lengths they would go to

to protect their brand.

- [Rod] Exactly, exactly.

- While father Marshall was still alive.

We moved for a court order to be

able

to videotape his evidence.

We wanted the Marshall video played as late as possible

in the trial so that would be one

of the last things that jurors would would hear from us

at least and even hear from the trial process

before they went to decide things so people

could see this sort of unrepentant cavalier

priest monster, in my words, give his evidence.

(pensive music)

State for the record your full name.

William Hodgson Maclin Marshall.

- Was quite something.

I'd never seen anything quite like that in a courtroom.

Here was a dead priest confessing to almost

four decades of crime.

- [Rob] There were 17 individuals

that you pled guilty to abuse.

- Yes.

- [Mary] They had the monitors up in the courtroom.

- Yes.

- Some of the spectators couldn't watch

because they'd been abused by him.

- [Rob] Most of these victims from the convictions

were boys when you sexually abused them?

- That's right.

- [Rob] And most of these victims were boys

at schools you were working at at the time you abused them?

- Most, yes.

- To have this evidence from the grave in front of you.

It was very powerful and the courtroom was silent.

- [Rob] And you would have shared your struggle

with abuse with the director?

- Yes.

- [Rob] So this would be a fourth spiritual director

you made aware of this?

- Yes.

- [Rob] And again you weren't told to go seek

any outside assistance.

- No.

- I considered leaving.

I'm not even sure why I stayed.

Somehow I felt I just had to hear his words and see

what he thought of his own actions.

- [Rob] Did you abuse John Morand at Assumption?

- [Hod] I can't remember that at

all.

- [Rob] You abuse Jerry Boyle?

- Yes.

- [Rob] Is it fair to say that you can't remember all

your victims from St. Charles?

- I think so.

- [Rob] You remember abusing Rod

MacLeod

during those early years of St.

Charles?

- Yes, I do.

- When Rob Talach was putting

questions to him and asking about specific boys,

he said and it was kind of heartbreaking to me

that I don't remember him or I might have

remembered him or I could have possibly happened,

I mean there were so many instances,

so many young boys, he couldn't

even remember who they were.

- [Rod] Is it fair to say that almost every school

you taught at you would have sexually touched boys?

- With a few exceptions, yes.

- It was frankly shocking

because there wasn't a lot of denial in there.

I mean this is a man who had been protected by the church

over the decades every time he got caught.

And I think it built in him sort of a who cares

sort of attitude and he told it

as it was.

So this has been a problem that

spanned most of your career.

Is that fair? - That's right.

- [Rod] You were convicted of that along with other

crimes in June of 2011.

- That's right.

- No guilt for all those years.

No concern that he would be going to meet his maker

and have to answer for his crimes.

(dramatic music)

- Things were done the same way in those days

that they are now we didn't realize the seriousness

of the crime.

- [Rob] Well you knew in those days, sir,

that it was a criminal offense.

Correct?

- I imagine so.

- [Rob] You knew it was a

breach of the Ten Commandments.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You knew it was a breach of your vow

of chastity and celibacy.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You knew it was wrong.

- Yes.

- Okay, I'm just gonna put some thoughts here

and see how it goes on a very practical basis.

I already have a document here called Closing Thoughts.

I gotta put this in plain English.

How's this line sound?

This will be the last time I call him the plaintiff.

He is Rod to me and I suspect after hearing so much

about his life he should be Rod to you as well.

I think the more human he is to

them.

The more difficult it is for them to be harsh

in the figures.

The hope is that he will walk this courtroom

no longer victimized but finally vindicated.

This question deals with additional money based on

the nature of what Rod endured.

It allows more money on top of the general damages.

This is allowed if what Rod endured was humiliating,

oppressive or undignified.

We all agree that he endured sexual abuse

for four years approximately 50

times.

We all agree that included fondling,

oral sex and ejaculation.

The defendant in fact agrees that aggravated

damages do apply to Rod.

This question is simply one of how much.

♪ Here I am Lord ♪

♪ Is it I Lord ♪

♪ I have heard You calling in the night ♪

♪ I will go Lord ♪ ♪ Here I am Lord ♪

♪ Waiting for you ♪

♪ But you sent Hod Marshall in the night ♪

♪ He abused me ♪

♪ And you let him ♪

♪ You let him abuse me in the night ♪

♪ Yes he broke me ♪

(people chatting)

- You're right, they should be in jail.

- [Patrick] Absolutely.

I'm sorry, good morning.

- Good morning, how can I share

your pain?

- Good morning, how can I share

your pain?

- You can tell me why

the church fights against the victims instead

of against the abusers?

- I wish I could.

I wish I could. - I wish you could too.

- I would have to know it in order to be

able to tell you and I can't.

- This is a fair answer. - To me it's...

- [Patrick] Why does it continue?

- That's what I mean it's--

- [Patrick] How does it get stopped?

- The system has to change totally.

- That is a start.

I've gone to four churches this

weekend

I've gone to four churches this

weekend

because I knew the bishop's statement was

going to be put out.

Was it read here today or?

- No we didn't read it.

We read it on Thursday that's what they asked us

to do and it's in the bulletins

today.

- Yes.

- So, I talked about it, but I didn't read it.

- You don't wanna keep having

to talk about something over and over but until

it's fixed that's what you have

to do.

Because even right today victims come forward

and they are not believed.

And the church brings out their

lawyers and they fight 'em.

And the church brings out their

lawyers and they fight 'em.

They fought me.

(somber music)

- The closing arguments in Rod MacLeod's case

were quite different.

The church's side accepted that

Rod MacLeod had been abused

to a certain degree.

But, clearly were pushing back on any notion

that it was a lifelong kind of suffering that would

impact financial earnings.

That was kind of my take on the defense's close.

Rob Talach on the other hand pressed a lot of

phrases and buttons that I thought a jury might

really listen to.

- [Rob] Members of the jury, you may recall that I put

to Father Katulski the example of Marshall being

like a toxic barrel of waste.

And every time he abused, that barrel leaked

and the church's reaction was simply to move

that barrel to new communities and not tell them

of the waste that was in their backyard.

- It's hard to tell by looking

at their faces but I think they were hanging on

to these kind of images and making something

that can be big and awful like sexual assault

a little more understandable when he put it in those terms

and he really did hammer on the amount of time

that Father Marshall was allowed to continue

his abuse which was decades,

and decades, and decades.

And that it could have been stopped in the 1940s

had anyone had any guts.

- [Rob] Years later when the extent of that leak

and a number of communities involved was known

to the church they didn't go back and say, hey,

there was something bad here in your community that might

have hurt your children.

We're here to help.

We're here to clean it up.

There was none of that.

- At the end of the trial when all of the evidence

had been presented and it was about to be handed

over to the jury.

I felt relieved and I felt relieved for one reason,

that this was gonna be over and we could all

get out of there.

We could all get out of the tomb.

- As the jury is about to

retire at the end of the trial.

I'm thinking that we have done everything

that we possibly could do.

I was very confident of that.

What I was not confident of was how the jury would react

to everything that had been said.

They could come back and they could fall completely

on the side of the defense and there'd be absolutely

nothing you could do about it.

You're thinking boy this could be really bad.

(pensive music)

- [Rob] Waiting for the verdict is nerve wracking

and the longer the verdict takes the more nerve wracking.

- [Aaron] You start to wondering

what are they thinking?

It could go any way it could be

a big win.

It could be a big loss.

- [Rod] There was really nothing that we could do.

And so it was just a matter of passing the time.

- Look at our focus group.

They took that we gave them an hour.

- [Rod] Yeah but we didn't give them information,

the kind of information-- - No that's right.

That's what I'm getting at they took their full hour.

- Oh yeah. - They kind of wrote off

the punitive question and just five minutes.

Yeah, a million.

But they took a lot of time

considering how little they got.

They got to put our evidence and they took an hour of time.

So hopefully these folks don't take three weeks.

(laughing)

I can only hope that the religious beliefs

of this jury help us.

They know that this, oh it's all

okay,

just go pray is bullshit.

There's no stricter regime than the Catholic Church

in the '50s.

- [Priest] In the name of the Father and of the Son

and of the Holy Spirit the grace of Our Lord

Jesus Christ the love of God and the communion

of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

- [Congregant] And with your spirit.

Amen.

- Last week after the 11 o'clock

mass.

I was rather surprised 'cause when I walked out.

Onto the steps, down on the sidewalk at the base

of the steps stood a man holding

a sign.

The victim of clergy sex abuse.

And I didn't quite know what to say or what to do.

Patrick McMahon was abused by Father Hod Marshall,

a Basilian who was principal here

at Assumption and then Holy Names and he was a good,

a close family friend of theirs.

And he abused him over a number

of years

and he's in deep pain.

And his sign was written on both

sides,

And his sign was written on both

sides,

two different things a quote from Pope Francis

and then something of his own.

And on one side, it said:

Ask, how you can share in my pain?

I think that is one of the biggest challenges

of us who call ourselves Christian,

is to share in someone else's pain.

I think Patrick did me a great favor by giving me

the cue card right in front of me.

Ask, how you can share in my pain?

My prayer is that I might keep that cue card in front of me.

And ask others how I can share in their pain.

♪ Oh God is grand ♪

♪ The spirit of the Father remembers you ♪

♪ And Father, we thank you for your feats ♪

♪ And may his feats be more bountiful ♪

♪ His people blessed for years ♪

♪ And we will be thankful ♪

(somber music)

(people chatting)

- Here's there!

- Thank you for coming.

- Thank you again for speaking with me and--

- I shouldn't have hugged you without asking.

- It's okay.

- I don't know much about your history

but I'm sorry. - No, that's not the problem.

I couldn't hug you back properly holding a sign

but I appreciate it and I think well of you.

- Thank you.

Same here.

I admire your courage immensely.

- Thank you.

- If there's, well, whatever I can.

Whenever I can do of service you let me know.

- Okay, I will do that.

- Keep in touch, okay?

- I'm not going to stop because they haven't stopped.

When they stop, maybe I'll stop, but they're abusing.

They're covering it up.

They're lying, they're cheating.

They're fighting against the victims.

So as long as they keep doing that,

I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

I'll be in court.

I'll be outside churches.

I'll be on television and until they if they get

tired of me they can stop doing what they're doing.

- There'll be a lot of cutting the baby in half

to get the thing done right.

- Because it's taking so long.

There's got to be at least two people.

Two or three against three or four.

- Well the first hour was

probably completely ineffective.

Just bumbling around people talking about

the thing that they were most moved by, duh, duh, duh,

and just some airing of grievances type thing.

And then depending on the foreman,

you know then they get down to work.

By that time it's 10:30 and they're still taking

their silly little coffee

breaks and stuff I'm sure of it.

their silly little coffee

breaks and stuff I'm sure of it.

God could you imagine having a hung jury.

We were pretty confident on a quick turnaround

and I think it was we went into the afternoon.

We were getting nervous.

It got pretty intense by the time we got the phone call

saying the jury was back in.

(phone rings)

Hello, Rob speaking.

(woman on phone speaks faintly)

Okay.

We are on our way over where we'll be there

within five minutes.

We've got a verdict.

Let's roll.

(pensive music)

- And then finally the jury reached a verdict

I could just tell by the look on

her face

when she stood up to give

the verdict that I knew it was not going to be

a pleasant experience and I was not disappointed

in that at all.

- At what amount if any do you assess the claim

for past loss of income?

$0.

At what amount if any do you assess the claim

for future loss of income?

$0.

At what amount do you assess the

claim

for general damages?

$350,000.

At what amount do you assess the

claim

for aggravated damages?

$75,000.

At what amount do you award as punitive damages

against the Basilian Fathers of

Toronto?

$500,000.

At what amount if any do you

award for lump sum income loss?

$ 1,588,781.

- [Aaron] Awesome!

This changes everything.

- It changes everything. - Changes everything!

- Yeah, it's unbelievable.

(laughing)

Well the grand total was $2,570,000

- [Rob] That judgment was more money than all my other

judgments I've ever taken combined.

- Just amazing! (laughing)

- Astronomical a record breaker.

I think they got it bang on.

500 just right in punitive,

because if they go over a million,

they could say it's absurd.

- That was glorious.

$2 1/2 million dollars.

And here's exactly what you did.

We know you did it and we know you knew you were doing it.

That was victory.

And that was what I was there for.

- [Rob] All right.

Let's go get a drink. - Perfect!

(triumphant music)

- It went beyond what I even speculated

would be the results.

It was hard.

It was hard.

It was another moment of

shame that I experienced

and felt and a profound sadness

that I always

have and always carry with me with regards

to these matters that we're talking dollars and cents

which does not bring about the healing

that the person really needs.

- [Rod] I hope this outcome will cause the Basilians.

To rethink their position and how they treat

sex abuse victims.

Stop listening to their legal experts and listen

to their hearts.

And the teachings of Jesus Christ.

- Oh my God, it's awesome.

- This represents the largest award of punitive

damages against the Catholic Church in Canada

and it's the first time that a jury of average

citizens have judged the church's handling

of sexual abuse a priest.

It marks a turning point for the church in Canada

who to date have only been required to pay

for the damage they caused victims but have never

been fined or punished for their institutional

conduct and complicity.

The hope is that this outcome will motivate

change within the Catholic Church.

Boomy!

Come on, dude.

- [Aaron] Come on, come on!

- [Rod] Alright.

- [Aaron] You're amazing, congratulations.

- [Matt] When I heard you testify I heard you say

very good things.

You were saying we're going to take

responsibility for this.

We have the ability to pay for this.

We acknowledge this.

Why did you appeal?

- I don't know how much of that question I should answer.

- [Lawyer] I would advise not

to answer that question. - That's right.

- Because it's under study. - That's right.

(somber music)

(bell rings)

- The appeal was not a surprise.

Instead of saying, oh my God look at what we have done.

Look at what we've done and look at the reaction

of the public.

What we've done is so wrong.

We must make amends.

But no that's not what they did.

They went right back to their old behavior.

Oh there's a possibility that we may be able

to claw some of this back.

Let's take it.

When it came right down to it, they reacted in a way

in which any profit making organization would.

Never will you see the change come from inside the church.

(melancholic music)

- [Mike] This has been 10 years in the making,

here's to all our friendship.

- Cheers. - Cheers!

Let's keep doing it, cheers.

- Cheers.

- [Patron] Cheers.

- My whole purpose of going to trial was not money.

My whole purpose was to get the

story out

My whole purpose was to get the

story out

into the public as much as I possibly could.

Not just for myself but for all

the others

who had been sexually abused just as I had.

And that to me was the best thing

that could have happened out of this trial.

(somber music)

♪