Original subtitles

[Greaves] One other thing. And that is the problem of matching.

- [siren wailing] - We should all wear the same shirt.

- [Bob] I veto that absolutely. - [Greaves laughs]

[Bob] Everybody is gonna be sweating like pigs out there.

How do we put on these shirts? They're gonna be like armor.

- [siren continues] - Okay. All right.

This is Clive Davidson over here. He's an assistant cameraman.

- Phil Parker is our production assistant. - [siren continues]

Uh, Jeff Norwalk is an - uh, assistant director.

Uh, Roland Mitchell is not a soundman actually.

He is a soundman, but he's also an assistant cameraman.

This is Steve Larner

and this is Maria Zaheri.

And this is the magnificent Terence Macartney-Filgate.

You may not have got your sync, so I'm gonna give you a - a handclap.

- I feel you may not have got it. - [man] And who are you?

- I'm, uh, Sonny Tufts. - [laughter]

Uh, this is, uh, Bill Henderson. He's an assistant director.

-This is the illustrious - -Hello.

Uh, Robert - Is it Rossen or Rosen?

- Rosen. - Rosen.

-And this is the - -I'm Jewish.

The lovely, charming Barbara Linden.

This is Mr. "Kenvin" Fenton from Canada.

- [Bob laughs] - Who is an assistant director.

- That's the wrong name, by the way, Phil. - Kevin Fenton?

- No. You said "Kenvin." - I - Oh.

- [Bob] "Kenvin." - Kevin. Kevin. Kevin. Forgive me.

Forgive me, Doctor.

Uh, Barbara Linden is our script girl and, uh,

also our makeup and costume lady.

And this is Scott Brody, who is a production assistant.

All right. So, now, we're clear on the slating.

[Bob] The first sequence to hit the cutting room floor.

Right? You understand that?

That the sound - the sound person's gonna do the timing -

- the actual timing, uh, slate. - [Larner] What good will that do, Bill?

It - What it will do is that it will tie

all of the various cameras, no matter what they're -

If I start running at the same time, you could do that by measuring.

No. But, you see, they'll begin to go out of sync.

The various cameras will go out of sync with each other -

out of sync in the sense that the roll numbers

will be going out of sync with each other.

- [siren wailing] - You see? And the time

is the thing that locks in all these disparate roll numbers

- into one sequence that has been shot. - [siren stops]

Well, then this information has somehow gotta get onto the film.

No. It doesn't have to get on the film because the sound recordist says, um,

"Roll 14, 2:30."

The system of the soundman announcing what the time is -

[Greaves] No. He's made - No. He's raised a very important point.

No. But that is - But that is much more meaningful in terms of editing

than taking this, you know - this thing here and going... tap.

- "Tail one," you know. "Tail two." - All right.

But here's the point he's making, and this is a valid point.

And that is - See, what we'll do is the -

the first part of each roll will be so slated.

- Will be time slated on the sound. - [Larner] Yeah. Right.

All right. But also,

uh, within the - within the, uh, intermittent running of the camera -

That is to say, we stop and start, we stop and start,

we'll just do this kind of slating.

[siren wailing]

- [siren continues] - [horn honks]

[engine starts]

[Greaves] Yeah. What we're gonna do is, uh, do a line reading first.

And then we'll, uh -

- What is the line reading? - Well, we just -

I just want to hear you, you know, go back and forth,

with the lines, make sure that, uh,

you know, we've got that under control.

- Yeah. - And then after we've done that,

we'll, uh - we'll try to work out

some kind of action for you to, uh -

to go through physically.

And, uh - And then we'll see what the problems -

You'll play the scene. Then we'll see what the problems are.

Then we'll get into it increasingly more on a, uh -

what, an emotional and, you know -

Personal level. You know,

more the dramatics of the situation.

Okay. Um, Terry, I guess you can - you can start rolling.

I'm gonna do a line reading with them.

[Terry] Yeah. Who do you want me to work with on the -

Who you gonna work with?

- I'm gonna work with my own recorder? - Yeah.

No. You'll - You'll work, uh -

You'll work against another recorder actually.

You don't need to do any recording of this,

because, uh, I'm just gonna do a line reading of them.

And there's - there's no need to-

[Terry] Which recorder am I going to work against?

The recorder - I mean, uh, John here has got -

- All right. - Hey. I'm picking up the cops.

- [Greaves] You're picking up the cops? - Yeah.

Are you - Are you shooting my makeup?

- Yeah. - [man] Want me to hold it for you, Audrey?

[Greaves] Okay. Fine. All right.

- All right. Okay. Let's go. - [man #2] I'm having no luck here.

Is there any way you can hold it steady for a while?

[Bob] We're rolling when you get it. When you finish -

[Greaves] Okay. Let's - Let's run 'em.

- [Freddie] Alice. - No.

Alice, wait a minute.

- Hey, come on. Come on, sport. - No, no, no.

What's the matter with you?

Just how stupid do you think I am?

For Christ's sake, tell me what the matter is.

You know perfectly well what the problem is.

Now come on. Quit beating around the bush.

[laughs]

Oh, God. Oh.

- What's so funny? - Oh, Freddie, you're a very funny man.

You know, you've really got me foxed. Really.

Why don't you just go away.

Just get out of my life permanently, Freddie.

Hey. Quit it. Stop acting.

- Ow. - Don't you try and touch me, Freddie.

You're really behaving quite impossibly. I'm not a mind reader.

I wish I were.

I wish I knew what goes on in that screwy little brain of yours

which makes you think that everyone else is stupid except you.

[Freddie] Now look. For the last time, will you tell me what's going on?

Come on. Tell me what's bugging you.

No.

[sighs] Ah, you tell me, Freddie, what -

who - or rather, what's bothering you, what's bugging you.

[Freddie] Alice, you're talking in circles.

Am I really, Freddie?

Just how much of a phony can you be? [groans]

I don't have to listen to this. Have the courtesy to tell me what's happening.

I'm a woman.

- And? - I'm a woman, Freddie. I'm not a fool.

I will not stand around and watch while you play your little games.

- What games? - Do you think I'm a fool, Freddie?

I saw him, and I saw you.

- Him? - Him. Yes.

That crazy faggot which everybody knows about.

Oh, come on. What are you? Some kind of nut or something?

Don't play naive with me, Freddie.

I've put up with all your little escapades and, you know, I've just about had it.

You've completely strained my patience on that score.

I saw you eyeing him, and I saw him eyeing you. God.

- You saw me eyeing him? - Yes.

The kid smiled at me and I smiled back. You want to nail me to the cross?

A cross is too good for you, Freddie.

Oh, wow. Now look.

You didn't see what you thought you saw.

- Did you hear me? - Get your hands off me, Freddie.

[Freddie] All right. If you want to be paranoidal about the whole thing.

[chuckles] Sure, I want to be paranoidal about the whole thing.

And about all those other things that you've been involved with.

You know, like Jack and Timmy.

- And Mr. Handsome. - I told you the truth about this morning.

But if you're gonna flog me with the past the rest of our lives, then where are we?

I don't know where you're at, mister.

I just know that I want you to get out of my life.

When we get back to the apartment, one of us has to leave.

Hey, baby. I can't let you do that.

Now I know why we haven't had any children,

despite the talk about "wait until we're ready."

Freddie, you really had me fooled.

Very fooled into thinking you could change.

That you could actually change.

- [Bob] Bill. - Yeah.

- I need to call for a slate. - Okay.

This is, uh, tail slate for camera...

"B" and camera "C."

If I was born a - If was born a thousand years from now, and just me - me -

I could be the same person, though I would not be an American,

I might not be a Jew, I might not be, you know... whatever I am.

But I would still be me, and I would have to be able to define those qualities.

I'm me, what I am to other people and how I relate to them and how I am.

And the karma that comes out of me. That's who I am.

- That really is who I am. - You have so many skins

you never know whether you're into your real self or into one of your skins.

Oh, you don't know who she is. Here is this -

You know who you are now because you're on Ektachrome - What are you shooting?

- [Bob] Ektachrome commercial. - Ektachrome commercial.

And your voice is being recorded on tape. Say you know -

[Greaves] Wait a minute. What's going on here? What are you doing?

You will never, ever - Put the microphone up here.

[Greaves] What's happening?

You will never, ever have any more doubt who you are.

- [chattering] - You will always know.

Jonathan, you're copping out. You're copping out.

All right. We're gonna do - No. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Just a moment. Please. We're gonna do this scene of, uh - Susan.

And, John, could you go down there down by the statue?

- [Greaves] Four? - [Bob] Four. She's got it on there. Four.

- [Bob] Bing. That was a slate. - You did it.

[Terry] I like doing it, 'cause it'll let me look at your face again.

- You head slated it. - [Terry] Which is why I'm tail slating it.

[Bob] Whoo! Whoo!

[Greaves] Uh, Steve. Steve. Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Steve.

Steve, wait a minute. Let's - Let -

I don't care about getting in the cloister.

- Let's get the bloody cloister. - I can't hold the sky.

- The sky. Not the cloister. - So I have to be wide open -

I have to be so open for them that - You know, that's f/11 up there.

- 'Cause we can't - The tripod legs. - The damn tripod leg is busted.

- [Greaves] They won't extend? - [Bob] Yes. That's why. That's why.

[Greaves] Well, then I'm afraid the -

the best thing to do would be to put the bloody thing on your shoulder.

[Larner] Two magazine cases with a spreader?

- [chattering] - [Terry] Three cases with a spreader.

[Greaves] Just take it easy a moment. Uh -

- [man] All right. - [Greaves] What's happening?

- [Bob] We're gonna fix it. - [chattering]

Okay.

But the thing that distresses me, Steve - We still haven't solved the problem.

Terry is looking right into your lens.

And I don't want him looking in your lens. Not on this - this, uh -

-Well, Terry, can you - -Well, then I won't shoot then.

Well, I'll shoot the bloody thing. I mean, hell.

- [Terry] Where would you like me to move? - Uh -

- I'm happy to move. - He'll move.

I'll move. Look into my lens and tell me, Greaves, what's in your heart.

- Come on. Now tell me the truth. - Tell him. Tell. Now.

What's in your mind? Tell me your wishes, and they'll be carried out.

Cut. I'm waving my magic wand. Hey, listen.

-Well, he - he hasn't - -[Bob] He's running up all that film.

-Has he got any - -You know how much that's gonna cost?

- You know you're wasting my film? - That's like $25.

- Hey, listen. - Twenty-five dollars.

-Maybe I can, uh - -Do your Shakespeare.

[Greaves] Shall I do my impersonation of Gielgud doing -

Quick. Quickly.

[sniffs, imitates Gielgud] Oh, what a rogue and peasant slave am I!

[sniffs] Is it not monstrous that this player here

could but in a fiction, in a dream of passion -

[sniffs] force his soul so to his own conceit -

[sniffs] that from her working all his visage waned -

- [Bob] Beautiful! - [cheering, applause]

[man whistles]

Okay. All right. Look. Uh, let's - let's, uh -

Are those the same, uh, glasses that you had the other day?

Uh, yeah. Why don't we get rid of those, eh?

Um, now, um -

-In the last time that we worked on this - -Mm-hmm.

It seemed to me that, uh...

not enough of your aggression,

not enough of your virility, you know, was coming through.

That is to say, there's a great deal of - You know, it was very moving.

You were very emotionally involved, you know, with her,

but, uh, it seemed that we could use other colors

as well as that particular color of your - your warm feelings toward her.

Let's also have the areas where you're

aggressively, you know, related toward her.

Do you know what I mean? Um, there are - there are...

points in the dialogue where she's actually,

you know, sniffing your balls, and, uh -

and you've gotta stand up for your own rights in relation to her.

I didn't feel that there was enough, you know, muscle there, enough strength.

- You know what I mean? - Yeah.

So let's - let's, uh -

Let's run it down and see if we can get some more of those colors in

as well as the other thing,

which was beautiful, Frank, that you got before, okay?

I mean, I don't mean to, you know, throw that away at all. No.

I mean, we'll keep that. But add to that these other colors. Okay?

All right. Let's try it from -

Uh, you can't go outside of the, uh - the shaded area.

[Greaves] Okay. Okay. Fine. Let's go.

Action.

Now I know why you don't want to have any children,

despite the talk about "wait until we're ready."

Oh, wow, you really had me fooled, Freddie,

to even think that you could change.

I want you to believe in me. Do you understand that?

You've killed one of my babies right after another,

and you want me to believe in you?

Don't you think that I want to have children too?

You've ruined my health because you're sick,

but I will not let you destroy me.

[airplane passing overhead]

The way we've been making love lately -

We'll never have any children like that, Freddie.

- The whole thing is so unnatural. - Alice -

Because every time you make love to me, I feel as though I've been raped.

- [sighs] Jesus Christ almighty. - I don't know who wouldn't be frigid

the way you come on like some Nazi storm trooper.

[sighs]

[airplane passing overhead]

[Greaves] All right. Look, uh, Frank, what I'm trying to get you to do -

It's horrible. Oh, my God. It's so horrible!

- No. Take it easy. Take it easy. - Jesus Christ.

[Henderson] Well, the point in all this, I think,

is the fact that maybe something else should be done than what is being done.

[Jonathan] Don't you see? None of this is designed to -

to denigrate any aspect of which this film is -

We don't have the right to do that. It's this guy's film.

Bill has made us actors in the film by including us in the filming.

-Is that why you consider - -[Jonathan] Exactly. Exactly.

- But we are acting without him in control. - [Bob] That's true.

[Henderson] Why, for example, should there not be -

[Terry] 'Cause there's some doubt as to what this all - he's putting on.

[Henderson] ...a better - better actors?

[woman] If they were better, then I think that would be bad then.

- [Jonathan] Doesn't make any difference. - I'm trying to take his objection and, uh,

if it is invalid, show why.

I mean, it - starting from this standpoint you could say,

"Let's get a better script. Let's improve the script for tomorrow.

- "Let's get some better actors." - [Jonathan] Right.

- "Let's get some really socko actors." - [Bob] We realize that it doesn't matter.

- All right. Now, why doesn't it matter? - [Jonathan] It doesn't matter because

-in life - -Right.

In life, some of us are good actors, and some of us are bad actors.

Some - Some of us, you know -

-Some women can - can say - -[man] Is life acting then?

-[Jonathan] Well, life for most people - -[man] Freddie - Freddie -

- [Bob] Wait a second. - Life for most people is the attempt

to give with whatever qualities they have -

- [bell rings] - real meaning to, um -

to - to thoughts and lines that they may not really understand.

When a guy says, "You're cutting my balls off,"

he can't possibly be saying what he really thinks.

It's not in him to say what he really thinks. He is acting.

What could be more elemental than saying, "Dear, you are cutting my balls"?

[Jonathan] Because everybody says it in different ways of believability.

But when you cut it down to this nitty-gritty of

"You are cutting my balls," you can't get it down much further.

- [Greaves] Quiet, please! - [man] Quiet.

- [Greaves] Action. - From where?

Uh, take it from the top, uh - Take it from the top.

Alice.

No.

- Alice, wait a minute. - Uh, let's - let's - Hold that.

Uh, you've changed your positions. Let's take it around this way, okay?

You were standing here. Okay. Fine.

All right. Now, we're not moving. Is that it?

No. Unfortunately.

[Freddie] Alice.

[sighs] No.

[chattering]

Oh, wow. Alice, what's the matter?

You know perfectly well what is the matter, Freddie.

[mumbles] Uh -

Come on, sport.

Just how stupid do you think I am, Freddie?

You know, I don't have to stand here and listen to this.

You don't even have the courtesy to tell me what's going on.

[laughter]

[Greaves] Listen. For Christ's sake, would you give us a break?

- I'm a woman, Freddie. - [horn honks]

[Jonathan] So what difference does it make?

[Larner] An enormous amount of difference, because in one thing,

you're talking about an irreducible truth,

and in another instance, you might be talking about some sort of fantasy,

-uh, whereby - -What's an irreducible truth?

Uh, "You're cutting my balls" or whatever.

Why? Do people really have to say that?

- Is it necessary to say that? - Yes. They have to say that.

-'Cause once - -Is it necessary that they feel that way?

I mean, why is it an irreducible truth?

[Jonathan] But don't you see? The man who says -

The man says this to his wife.

That's part of his role too, you know. As long as he can say this to his wife.

She won't understand what the hell he's saying. She'll hear, "You cut my balls."

Then she gives out with the response that was written into her part in life.

She says, "Well, maybe that's because you're just a bad," you know, this.

"Maybe you're an ineffectual little -"

-[Larner] The fact you're saying that - -See?

- You're playing a part in saying that. - Oh.

You're falling into a trap there that the -

[Jonathan] Oh, you mean that would not be the response of any given woman

to that accusation by any given man?

What else would she say?

Would she say, "Yes. You know, you're right. I love to do it."

I did it to my first three husbands too.

If roles are to be played and if life is role-playing,

uh, which is, of course, the whole big bag -

you know, the Moreno people can explain more knowledgeably than any of us.

- [bell rings] - Um -

This is precisely the question I was asking. What then -

not to get this off too far -

What then is the difference between

-an actor playing a role - -[bell rings]

and playing an imposed role - a role that's imposed from without -

and a person who is a nonactor -

That is to say a person who's not employed as an actor -

or not asked to do something for a camera or something like that -

playing a role which he thinks is imposed on him

from whatever psychological need he might have at this moment.

Um -

All right. So -

What we're doing now - We're gonna do another psychodrama.

And that psychodrama's gonna be what exactly?

[woman] Freddie confronting Freddie.

-The strong Freddie - -[Frank] Passive and -

- confronting the weak Freddie. - [Frank] Yeah. Right. Right.

- The strong Freddie... - [both] ...confronting the weak Freddie.

See, the important thing is, as I said, before you start,

is masculinity and virility

as opposed to, you know, raw aggression and raw hostility.

- Do you know what I mean, Frank? - Yes, I do.

The way you take - The way you are in full command of the situation,

it's no longer necessary for you to be, you know, aggressive.

- Right. - You know, in relation to it.

- Okay. - Now, uh,

we should be, I think, visually opposite each other,

-but do you want us down or up or - -[Greaves] Well, you could go down there,

or if you - Yeah.

Sy, you'll have to get out of the way, my dear man.

[Terry] He's out there intentionally. I've got to have him in the shot.

[Greaves] Well, it's all right.

- [vehicle passing] - [Freddie] Well, why don't you -

Why don't you walk over to that wall over there and jump off?

- I haven't got the strength. - Oh, bullshit. Try. Want me to help you?

You want to fight me? Let's fight.

- Let's fight. - What do you want to do? Fight?

- Yeah. - You want to wrestle?

Let's fight.

[chuckles]

If you're so strong, fight.

- [chuckles] - What are you laughing at?

I'm laughing at you. You're struggling to get free, and you can't get free.

You want to move, and you can't move.

I feel like I'm taking unfair advantage of you 'cause you're off-balance.

It's gonna be so easy. Look.

[Greaves] Not that way.

Which fucking way?

[chuckles] Jesus Chri -

- I'll win. - [laughs]

- I'll win. - Oh, yeah?

You don't fight very hard, do ya?

Fight harder.

Fight harder.

Fight harder. Go on. Fight harder. Fight harder. Go on.

Go ahead. Go ahead.

[laughs] Oh, come on.

Come on.

-If you really live - -Shh.

You'll go - [muffled]

-and do something with your - -You what?

If you really live, you'll go get Alice and do something with her.

Otherwise I live. Otherwise I win.

- No. Shut up. - You can fight me a million times,

and I'll always win.

- Shut up. Shut up. - I'll always win!

Look how strong I am. You just play with me.

You don't fight. You never kill me.

You think you do, but you don't.

You think you've won, right?

Don't you?

[Greaves] Cut.

-[Greaves] Let's, uh - -[Jonathan] Gotta slate these.

[Greaves] Let's try and, uh - Let's -

Marcia, you want to get up? Here. Watch out for your transmitter.

-Oh. Okay. Um - -[chattering]

[Terry] Someone give me another sync start.

Marcia was working very intimately, and she was contacting -

- [Terry] Second start. - She hit my -

She hit dead on the thing that I was working on.

It was like an arrow went - [clicks tongue]

You know, it was like - And that -

I think having, um,

explored this whole thing in depth,

uh, through the agency of psychodrama,

it would be very interesting now to return to the scene -

I was talking to Marcia about this - return to the scene,

uh, and see what new

qualitative values have been added to your characterizations

as a result of the removal of certain blocks

and the increase of certain

bases of empathy that you now have for each other.

Uh, I was wondering whether or not

the conflict of the two characters would be

more interestingly -

- Different dimensions. - Yeah. Illuminated.

Do you know what I mean? So what we're doing now is we're going from -

- [Frank] Improvisation to the scene. - Improvisation to the scene.

Well, we're gonna start on the scene, and then we're gonna use -

We're gonna go from psychodrama - from reality to the reality of the scene.

- Right. - And see how

and if they can in fact, you know, feed each other. You know what I mean?

- [Terry] Slate. Slate. - [Jonathan] Slate for camera "B."

- [Larner] Tail slate. - Slate on this one here.

[all talking at once]

No. This is proceeding very well.

Look. This is your first, you know, go on this.

And let's not have any neuroticism.

This was very, very, very effective. You know, very effective.

Uh, it looks beautiful seeing you come down.

I mean, it's just fantastic. And when you come down there, you had moments,

you know, of emotional reality, you know, going for yourself.

And the important thing is not to panic. There's no reason to panic at all.

I mean, just take your time and, you know, feel your way through it.

We've got all the time in the world. You know, if you want to wait

an extra two or three seconds and, you know, organize your faculties -

- Right. - Your emotional motors and other things,

take that time, you know, because we can look at -

Both of you are very attractive. We can look at you,

you know, while you - while you're thinking,

while you try and arrive at some kind of reality for yourself.

- What? - Yeah. I felt we rushed it and, like -

-This all feels so - -Yeah. All right. All right. I mean -

There's no need for that. There's no need for rushing at all.

I mean, take your time. Okay?

- Very good. - All right? Let's do it another -

Take two. Take two. Take two of take two.

Check that and see where you're going again? 'Cause we went off the -

- [chattering] - Let's just check the script.

Okay, fine. Where's the script? Can I have the script, Barbara?

- [Jonathan] Six. - Six.

All right. Here we go. All right. Stand by.

Quiet, please. All right. Action.

Action.

- [Freddie] Hey, Alice. - No.

- Come on, Alice. - No.

Come on, sport. Just wait a minute. Come here.

What the hell's the matter with you? Christ's sake, tell me what the matter is.

Come here.

I don't understand what's going on. Come here.

Freddie, get away from me. Please.

- Just how stupid do you think I am? - Come on. Cut out the double-talk.

Come on!

[panting]

Freddie, just how stupid do you think I am?

[sighs] I don't know what you're talking about.

You know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

Well, go ahead. Tell me.

Lookit. I'm not a mind reader.

[sighs] Freddie, I wish I were a mind reader.

Perhaps I could... tell what's going on in that screwy little mind of yours.

What makes you think that everyone is so stupid and you're so smart?

- You're talking in circles, Alice. - Am I really, Freddie?

Just how much of a phony are you anyway?

Don't touch me.

Please tell me what's going on.

Freddie,

why don't you just get out of my life permanently.

Now quit it. Stop acting.

Don't touch me.

Freddie, get your hands off me. Please.

And don't ever touch me again.

- Ever. - All right. What have I done?

You know perfectly well.

I saw him, and I saw you -

both of you - at the altar, eyeing each other.

- Him. - Yes. Him.

Him. That crazy little faggot that half the church knows about.

- What are you? Some kind of a nut? - Don't play naive with me, Freddie.

I'm not playing naive. What do you think you saw?

I've put up with all your escapades -

- All right. - And I'm going to put an end to it.

- You've strained my patience. - I don't know what you thought you saw,

but you didn't see anything this morning.

You mean I didn't see both of you eyeing each other?

That kid smiled at me, and I smiled back. What do you want to do?

- Nail me to the cross for that? - A cross is too good for you, Freddie.

Wow.

[man] Slate.

- [Greaves] Cut. - [man] Slate.

-[man] Slate. Uh - -Slate.

- [Greaves] Stop a moment. - [Bob] Seven.

- [Jonathan] Or is it eight? - [Greaves] The work will go on.

[Bob] Terry's still rolling.

[Greaves] All right. Let's go on.

- [woman] Rolling. Speed. - [chattering]

- [Terry] All right. Go ahead. - [woman] Camera roll 4X.

Would you turn to her and just, you know - If somebody out there in the audience

-is now looking at you, it does - -Right.

And you now say something.

- [Bob] Okay. - [Larner] Listen. I -

- [Jonathan] Need to sign this as 4X? - [Larner] We got that.

- [Jonathan] Okay. Then we're on. - This morning he said -

Know how he says things with his tongue in his cheek? He said,

- "Good morning. Who am I?" You see? - [Bob] Right.

That's really very interesting - I don't judge it or anything like that.

I just say it's very interesting. Whatever a man is, is extremely interesting.

And it occurred to me the other day that in this case, right here,

Bill is a man with a medium, but who lacks an identity.

We are people with identities. At least right now.

In relation to this thing. But without a medium.

- [Terry] You're just seizing the medium. - Like they seized Channel 13.

- [woman] And that's a rape. - It isn't a rape. It's a political -

-It's a - -[woman] Coup.

It's a coup. It's an artistic - It's not a coup. We're giving it back.

- [Bob] We're giving it back to him. - That's right.

It would only be rape if we took this footage off to the laboratory

and developed it ourselves and put out a film, you know.

- [Terry] Ran it back to back. - [Bob] Right. Without Bill's consent.

We are merely liberating the medium to impose our own identities on film.

Because film is the thing. Talk's nothin'.

Now, the people out there in the audience, you know -

This is without, you know - I mean, they don't know - This never happened before.

I mean, this is happening - Not only is it happening to us at this moment,

but every time it gets played in the theater it's gonna happen to them.

- You know? - You're saying the method of this film

- reflects the mechanics of life. - That's right. Exactly.

[Jonathan] This is something other than a film, because a film traditionally

exists where a guy says, "I'm going to make a film about -"

And he does it. But here's a film that exists as it exists.

When it's shown, if it's ever made and shown,

it will take its final form

precisely because an indeterminate action took place in it,

and altered it and changed it and made it something -

[Bob] Yeah. Something else happened. I have something I want to say.

The thing is - The thing is it's -

We find ourselves in a very, very strange situation. You know? And -

- [Terry] Kill the air-conditioner. - It's a question of precedent. You know.

Nobody who got into the, you know - onto the crew here had any idea.

We were put into a completely unprecedented situation.

I don't think anybody has ever made a film before

- where the crew decided to do this. - [man] Yeah.

And we didn't really even decide. It just happened that way.

And I don't think this has ever happened before. You know?

It's completely without precedent.

And the thing is that it's -

that most people consider that life is -

they live their lives filled with precedents, you know?

That every situation - Like those lines. You know?

They do those lines, and if they've done those lines, you know,

ten times in one form or another.

Fifty times. You know, over and over and over.

There's an infinite number of precedents for that situation.

This situation has no precedent.

And the thing that I'm discovering, it seems,

is that this is the way that life really works.

Without precedent. Every situation is without precedent.

- [Jonathan] Or indeterminate. Yes. - Absolutely indeterminate.

And here we are in this situation of total indeterminacy where we're uncertain.

- Bill is uncertain. Bill can't tell you. - [Jonathan] Yes. I think -

[Greaves] Ladies and gentlemen, I hate to interrupt

this very scintillating discussion, but, uh,

either there is a God or there isn't.

But whatever. But there are some clouds coming in this direction.

We'd better get the hell out of here. Okay? Shall we?

- What are we doing? - We're wrapping up.

- [Bob] That's it? - Yeah. We're wrapping up.

[man] Oh, nice. Wonderful.

- [Greaves] It's gonna rain. - [chattering]

- [Larner] Let's go. Grab those machines. - [shouts]

- It's gonna rain. - Fuck the rain.

Fuck the rain? It's gonna rain. We can't - The equipment won't function, man.

- [thunder rumbling] - [Greaves] What do you think, Bob?

Should we close it up? Do you think it's gonna rain? I think it's gonna rain.

- [man] It's gonna rain bad. - [Terry] Get your cases on the truck.

There's a big storm coming up quick.

[chattering]

[Terry] Quick. Quick, quick. Arriflex away.

Batches away. We'll be struck by lightning.

- [Greaves] Okay? - [no audible dialogue]

- [Frank] Just know that I want to do it. - [Greaves] Yes! I know. I know.

[thunder rumbles]

Hmm?

What?

Well, what the hell, man?

- That's the whole fallacy of the movies. - Come on. Let's go.

- You move. - [Terry] No. I'm shooting.

- Move. You're gonna get wet. - I don't care! I want to shoot!

- Come on. - [woman] Shoot the shit, man.

- Huh? - [Terry] There's nothing.

-I won't get that lightning. I need a - -[thunder rumbles]

Bring me the tripod. Would you look over here?

- [Bob] The tripod. Where do you want it? - Just dump it here.

[Audrey] Let's see.

[Jonathan] This is a wonderful way to end the role, isn't it? It's great.

[Greaves muttering] Excuse me.

[Terry] Oh, no, just do it once. Just once.

- Hold it. Fine. Thank you. - You're welcome.

[sustained tone, pitch rising]

[tone pitch continues rising]

- [tone fades] - [applause]

[man laughing]

[laughing continues]

Bill Greaves and Steve Buscemi, come back up, please.

[applause]

I, uh, would like to say that this -

It's just wonderful to, uh, have the film accepted

finally after 30 years of waiting.

I don't know. Is there any, uh - Are there any questions? Any, uh - Any?

No questions? Yes.

What was the reaction of the crew when you showed them the final -

the final cut?

Well, I didn't show them the final cut right away.

- [audience chuckles] - Uh, but I think there was a -

Well, let's have Jonathan - What was your reaction to -

Last time I saw this was about eight years ago.

-And I'm finally detached enough from it - -[audience laughs]

um, to see it just as a work without judging myself.

And so I had a new experience here really.

And, uh,

I mean, I remembered these emotions really well, Bill.

Um, I do, you know.

I remember the absolutely authentic frustration with you.

Um, it's just a great pleasure to watch it,

and to watch this, um -

and to watch this conspiracy,

in which you're implicated too, you know.

And to just watch this odd conspiracy, um,

of images and -

Just to watch it occur and to see the brilliant way in which you took it

and made it into a work of, I think, art.

And, um - And I remember, um, the camaraderie,

um, and the skillful -

the skillful camaraderie that we had as a crew

that gave us that friendly trust in one another

to be able to deal with these things.

'Cause those were those times, you know. We "academized" -

We "academized" this film as well as did this film, you know.

- So we were all in our own way academic. - Mm-hmm.

And that was a very nice thing about those times, I think.

And it's a real pleasure for me. I don't know what else to say.

- I'm so glad these people are here. - Any other questions? [laughing]

[woman] When you saw them -

When you saw your crew talking about you like that -

Very few directors are gonna invite that. Were you in the editing room alone?

Um -

Well, I was sitting in the editing room with my son,

who was the assistant editor, and it was fascinating.

Uh, and, you know, listen.

Uh, we - None of us like criticism per se,

but, uh, it was interesting to me because

I realize that this was the other hand clapping.

In other words, uh, you don't have a film,

or a stage drama, or any kind of narrative form,

that does not have conflict inherent in it of some kind.

And when we finished shooting, I was a little disturbed

by the fact that I didn't have enough conflict in the film.

- [laughing] - And when I saw this material

that Jonathan and - and Bob Rosen had put together,

I said, "Hallelujah," you know.

Because I knew that that was gonna make the film, and so it has.

[man] Are you gonna continue with those two characters in part two?

- [Greaves] Yes. - We're gonna do the same dialogue?

[all laughing]

Well, "symbiotaxiplasm" is a term

that was devised and conceived

by a social science philosopher named Arthur Bentley,

who was a contemporary of John Dewey.

And he studied the social sciences

from a scientific method perspective.

And, um, he called

the symbiotaxiplasm

all those events that life - that human beings are involved with

which, uh - which impact

their physical, social, material environment

and which in turn affect their personalities, their character.

So there's a kind of a dialectic, a dialogue that goes on between

the individual, the human being, and his environment.

Like this area here is a symbiotaxiplasm. Uh, because here we are.

You're affecting me. I'm affecting you. So on and so forth.

And all of the, uh, developments that have taken place in social -

in human history is a result of that interchange.

So I had the audacity to inject the term "psycho" -

So it's "symbiopsychotaxiplasm" and that designates,

uh, the mental mechanisms that are involved in the creative process

as the individual moves through any given environment.

There are a number of other very esoteric concerns

that I have in making the film which I tend not to talk about,

because my wife, Louise, thinks -

thinks that I'm, you know, uh, going off the deep end.

[audience laughs]

But, uh, we have principles like the Heisenberg principle of uncertainty,

the Stanislavsky system of acting,

the, uh, chaos theory.

Uh, there's an element of mysticism involved

of Sri Aurobindo, one of my gurus.

Uh, there are a number of things that are operating in this,

concurrent with this very obvious, uh,

you know, screen test, which is a very simple event.

Uh, where's Steve? Oh. There. Did I answer your question?

Yeah, but, I mean, this film has never been released

and we're doing a sequel to a film that's never been -

Could I ask you a question I've been wondering about?

What exactly are you trying to do, um, with this second thing?

Surely what we're doing at this festival is not enough to make a film.

- It's a part of a larger vision you have. - [Greaves] Yeah.

- What is that? - I don't know.

- [woman] Oh. - [Jonathan] We need Bob Rosen here.

[chattering]

[woman] You're totally reliant on the crew.

- [chattering] - Again, he's falling back to -

But he's asked an explosive question,

you know, that goes to the heart of this production.

- We've got that. But let's - Please. - [Greaves] Let's move on. Yes. Okay.

No. I quite agree. We'll move on.

Terry Filgate, you're gonna be camera number one.

Jerry will be camera number two.

Fred, you're camera number three.

Linda's number four, and Mr. Greaves is going to be -

- Bill is gonna be camera number five. - Occasionally.

Occasionally. When it's working. When camera five works.

Thank you very much.

Alice. Alice!

[chuckling]

- Hi. - Hi.

How are you? I thought you'd never get here.

- I've been waiting for hours. - I told you that I would.

No, but I stood here for hours and hours.

You sounded so terrible on the telephone.

- No. - Really.

- No. I'm fine. - But you look fine.

I'm great. I'm dying, but I'm great. [laughs]

- Oh. - Come on.

[chuckling] I thought you'd never get here.

I told you I would.

But you sounded so terrible on the phone. I thought you were ill.

- But you look fine. - I'm great.

- Well, I'm really glad to hear that. - [chuckles]

- I mean, I was worried. - Yeah?

- Yes. - You look great.

Well, thank you. For an old lady.

[Freddie] You don't understand.

You're the most exciting human spirit I've ever met in my whole life.

- [Alice chuckles] - Do you understand that?

- Oh, Freddie. - What? What?

[Alice] This is something that I -

that you get in Germany as well.

- Really? - Yes.

In Germany it's now - It's also red.

It's also green. It's also orange and everything.

- Really? - But it's incredible.

[Alice] ♪ I stand and watch the autumn leaves ♪

♪ Falling, falling ♪

♪ Somnolently falling ♪

♪ Je t'aime Je t'aime ♪

♪ Je t'aime, mon amour Je t'aime ♪

[singing in German]

- [Freddie] Can you believe this? - Yes.

- Isn't this a magical place? Hmm? - [Alice sighs]

[Freddie] So? Hmm?

[Alice] Oh, thank you. Oh.

Come on.

It's - You know what it is? It's like - It's like enchanted.

- [Freddie] It is enchanted. It's magical. - [Alice] I mean, look at that. You know?

It's - Jesus Christ.

- It's like everything is alive. - Not "like." Everything is alive.

- Right. - [Greaves] Cut.

Uh, you've gotta - They're gonna be sitting here.

You have to get out of here.

Could you folks, uh, get over on this side?

[woman] Hi, puppy.

- Uh, Shannon, Audrey. - [man] Hello.

And then where's the - Oh, I see it. Is that the record button?

Yeah.

- [Greaves] What's that sound? - [earphones: pop music]

Who's this? Who's this cameraman?

-Um - -[man] The sound of one hand clapping.

Huh? The sound of - I see.

Who's this cameraman?

He's an import from Brooklyn.

[Greaves] Is he from Brooklyn? Does he have a passport?

Does he have a - Hey, fella. Have you got a passport from Brooklyn?

- I don't need a passport, pal. - I beg your pardon?

You've gotta have a passport to make a film in Manhattan, you know.

Oh. All right.

-We don't allow - -[man] Actually, he's from Staten Island.

- [Greaves] Do you have chutzpah? - Yeah. It's coming.

Oh, good. Wonderful.

- [music in earphones continues] - [Greaves] Okay. Okay. Here we go.

- Are you Steve Buscemi? - Yeah.

Oh. Nice to meet you.

- Your film Living in Oblivion. Ah? - Oh, yeah. Yeah.

- It's the greatest. - Thank you very much.

[pop music continues]

[Greaves] What I want to do, first of all, is do a run-through with the script.

Right.

But what we're going to do is, we're going to do scene by scene.

- There's six scenes or seven scenes in it. - Right.

So we're gonna do the run-through from the script, verbatim to the script,

and then we will - as much as you can retain of the script,

we're gonna do just that little section.

- Good. Okay. - You follow me?

It'll only be like a minute, or a minute and a half, or two minutes, like that.

- Right. Should I get the script then? - Get your script. Get -

- I don't have it with me. - I have - Sorry.

-Okay, so, uh - -A script.

- I wondered if you might change your mind. - [laughs] I told you I'd be here.

You know, you sounded really terrible on the phone.

- I was worried. - I feel fine.

- But you look fine. - I do. I'm fine.

-Y-Y-You - -God, I'm glad to hear that.

- You look great. - [laughs] Thank you.

Uh, for an old lady. Well, anyway -

Hey, a lot of young women would really envy you, with a -

a singing career under your belt. You're still going strong.

Fine.

- That's it. The first scene. - That was the first scene.

[Greaves] All right, let's go to the next, uh, section.

What I'm doing is, I'm taking this section by section -

- [Buscemi] Right. - You know, and going, uh -

We're going through the lines just for that -

- [Buscemi] Just for that - Yeah. - [Greaves] seven or eight lines.

[Buscemi] Like it's broken down in the script?

And then, you know, doing what they can from memory

and whatever they can't, they put in spontaneously

as improvisation stuff, you know.

So, that's what we're doing.

[Greaves] Stand by. All right, roll it. And action.

Okay. Okay? It was a stupid idea.

You've got a lot of nerve.

I could have had a daughter of my own.

Now you tell me you want to pass this stupid woman,

this orphan, on to me.

No!

I didn't realize you were still so bitter.

Oh.

Oh! Of course I am.

I could have had a family of my own.

[chuckles] That's why I thought you might have done it.

For yourself, if not for her.

Then what - [exhales]

Cut. Okay? Excellent.

Excellent. Very good.

Uh, Steve, um, the actors are very -

very anxious about the two of us coming at them -

At once. So I'm gonna hang back.

- Okay. All right. Okay. - Okay.

-Audrey - -Shh.

- [woman] Can we be here, Bill? - Huh?

[man] You wanna have them walk out of the frame in this one, right?

- [Greaves] They walk out of the frame. - All right.

- Have them get up and leave. - [Greaves] Yeah, get up and leave.

- Then have 'em sit into the other one. - Huh?

- Then have 'em sit into the other one. - Well, yeah. Yeah.

-And they may sit into another - -Or maybe you want a wide shot of them -

They may sit into another location. You know what I mean?

You want a wide shot of them getting up and leaving, or just -

Uh -

She says, "No." She says, "No, no."

- [Terry] But they'll come out. - Let's try -

- So he's gotta have each one of them. - Let's try a wide - Let's try a wide -

Let's try a close-up of her getting up and leaving.

- Right. - And then we'll do it with the wider shot.

- Okay. - Okay? That has - It's a two-shot.

Okay? All right. Okay. All right.

[Terry] Their final line is, "We've had enough of this," and they leave.

I'm sorry. Would you kindly project - What did you say?

The final line is, "We've had enough of this," and they leave.

Then the crew goes pursuing them for another location.

I wanna know what you said about Bill spitting in the subway.

I said there are people down there.

Is that your attitude to them, when you spat into the subway grating?

I spit on the grille, and he said, "There are people down there!"

He never was like that before till he came back to New York.

Spit down gratings on the subway.

All right, enough of this levity.

Enough of this levity, Mr. Filgate. We're busy people here.

- [man] This is serious business. - Okay?

- [Terry] Okay. We'll get serious. - Okay.

[Greaves] Uh, could you - could you take your seat there?

We should go up this way.

Mr. Greaves says he doesn't want to -

We're ending up right here.

- On the first leg of our journey. - [woman] On the first leg.

[Greaves] Even when they're not acting.

- [man] Everyone thinks they're directing. - [Greaves] What?

- Every actor thinks they're directing. - [Greaves chuckles]

[no audible dialogue]

[Jonathan] Bill said to me yesterday - He said to moderate a discussion here.

And so, there's a few things, um, I want to say.

First of all, this is very open.

There's no manipulation from Bill as to where -

He's not manipulating me to manipulate anybody to say anything.

Um, and I was actually surprised

at the degree to which he did leave it open.

And, um, those of you who saw the first Symbio know

that at a certain point in the production,

due to frustration at this process

that Bill was leading us on,

we mutinied, we grabbed some film and tape,

we went into an editing room and we had a talk about this.

But there's a few very significant differences here.

First of all, in 1968 it was a genuine transgression.

We were not supposed to be doing this. We just did it.

It was transgressing the director-crew boundary

that any production is supposed to have.

And, uh, we didn't do it for the purpose of winding up on the film.

We just did it, thinking it was sort of a filmmaker-to-filmmaker joke,

and that Bill would see it when he developed the film

and that was the best we could, you know, do.

It was one of the best things we could do about our participation.

And the context was really different. There was not yet a film called Symbio.

There was just three days called Symbio, or however many days it was.

So there was no film that had been made.

There was no Steve Buscemi. There was no mystique.

There was no Southampton Film Festival.

There was nothing you could point to, like you all can point -

Even those of you who haven't been here, you can all point to something

that already has happened with Symbio - you know it's something.

In 1968 we didn't know whether it was something.

So there was a legitimate question that we would have coming together.

I mean, a really mature, legitimate, artistic question

of whether our colleague and friend knew what he was doing.

If that rebellion - that crew rebellion -

It had an incredibly powerful function in the context of that movie

in that it gave the movie an incredible amount of conflict.

You know? As soon as that started to happen -

In the beginning, you started to wonder who these flaky guys were.

Then the rebellion starts to happen and you think,

"Hey, something is really going on here."

And there's an enormous amount of conflict about how it's gonna turn out.

What is Bill going to do in this picture to get that kind of conflict

and can what we're doing succeed without conflict?

Is conflict necessary to make this kind of thing work?

Because on this shoot it seems like it's a little bit more overt.

[woman #1] It's totally overt.

- Okay. Totally overt. - Totally overt.

[woman #2] But because they're trying to get this conflict, it may be heightened.

Because, as you say, there's no natural conflict.

What happened to you all in '68 is just not happening.

And I think everybody may be reaching now for something.

This is actually almost more a history lesson than anything.

I mean, what has transpired in 35 years?

Just like the relationship between the two characters in the film has changed,

the relationship of the crew to the director has changed

just as a natural evolution in film history.

We've, you know - We can't create that conflict.

- [man] No, we can't. Not honestly. - Not honestly.

If the conflict were to exist, we should never have seen this film.

[sighs]

- It's beautiful. - It is.

- [groans, sighs] - [Alice] Absolutely. Absolutely fantastic.

[Freddie] It's kind of sunny, so why don't we sit over here.

Okay.

Okay.

- This better? - Yes.

Mmm. There's something I want to show you.

[chuckles] You remember this?

[Alice gasps]

Oh, my God.

[laughs] Oh, my Go -

Was I ever that young?

- You look so beautiful. - Where'd you get this?

- I saved it. - Really? The two of us.

- Can you believe it? - Looks like hundreds of years ago.

- You think? - Oh, my God.

[Alice] You know, Europe was really good to me.

- [Freddie] Mmm. - Doors opened everywhere.

And I got a chance to start really afresh.

- Mmm. - Sort of pick up the pieces of my life.

Mmm.

Thanks for sending the recordings. They're great.

You've got such a distinctive sound.

Is that why you dragged me from Europe - to tell me you like my voice?

Not really. There's something I needed to talk to you about.

I've got this one young lady - she was busted for possession.

All my kids get busted for possession because of these stupid Rockefeller laws.

Anyway, she's sober, she's been clean for a while,

and she's gonna need a lot of help, support.

And, um...

she's a singer.

She's beautiful. She's like my adopted daughter.

And I was hoping that maybe you could meet her.

Freddie, you know, I think... you've just worked too hard.

You're doing - I mean, it's a stressful situation that you're in.

Hey, there's a wonderful European spa that I go to.

Mm-hmm.

I'll pay your way, and you can stay as long as you want.

- [Freddie laughs] - The tab's on me.

I-I don't think I can. Not right now.

I'm just too involved with the work I'm doing and -

And besides, I'm very concerned about this -

this young lady - she's like my adopted daughter.

- She's gonna need a lot of support. - What are you getting at, Freddie?

I wanted to introduce her to you.

Yeah -

Maybe she could go back with you to Europe.

[laughing] Jesus!

[Freddie] What?

- This is incredible. - You like the idea?

I mean -

You - Why didn't you tell me this on the telephone?

- I couldn't tell you that on the phone. - Why didn't you tell me this?

How could I tell you that on the - I want you to meet her in person.

You could have had my answer then, which is... no.

No.

[speaking foreign language] No.

[Freddie sighs]

[Greaves] Okay, cut.

All right, let's - let's do that "no, no,"

-and then get up - -And then get up. Right.

[Greaves] Roll 'em. Roll cameras.

- [man #1] Rolling. - [man #2] Speed.

[Greaves] And... action.

She doesn't have any female role models that she can identify with.

You mean you brought me all the way from Europe to tell me this?

You could have had my answer on the telephone...

which is...

no, no, no.

Alice. Alice.

Alice.

Alice! Okay, it was a stupid idea.

We're gonna re - We're gonna redo this whole scene again

at another location.

It's the Strawberry Fields location.

It's a wonderful backdrop

for this, uh, psychodrama to take place.

- Take place, yeah. - So it'll be -

- Cool my jets. Yeah. - Yeah, right.

But at least you're getting the material that you need to work with. Okay?

- I am. Thank you. - Okay.

[Greaves] Wait there for me.

Okay, it was a stupid idea.

You bet. You have a lot of nerve.

I mean, I could have had this child of my own.

Now you're trying to pass off

- this so-called orphan daughter of yours. - I didn't realize you'd be so -

I'm not having it.

I am too tired, I am too old

and I'm worn out.

- I didn't realize you'd be so bitter. - I am bitter.

And I have a right to be.

[Greaves] Okay, good.

[man] When she stood up, she totally blocked him.

So we need a mark.

When? When do I cover him?

I'm gonna - When she gets up, I'm gonna - I'm just gonna stay.

[man] Yeah, I know, but she was dead in front of you.

[Audrey] Oh, wait, wait, wait.

[Greaves] She walks off, and then you want her to move over to here?

[man] Yeah, that's the wrong camera direction.

- And here? - No, no.

If she'd just -

If I stood here -

Yeah, just stand up and move a little bit this way.

Right. Okay. You know -

[Audrey speaking, faint]

[man] Right. Yeah, that's good.

-However - -What? What?

[man] I was just saying, however, the screen direction's wrong.

She needs to be on this side of the camera.

- She's on this side of the camera? - Right.

If you wanna be able to cut to her, to that camera,

he's gotta be looking left to right, she's gotta be looking - Right?

-So when she crosses the axis this way - -Yeah.

He's no longer looking left-to-right, he's looking right-to-left.

- Wow. - You understand that?

- Yeah. - As long as you understand it and I'm -

[Greaves] Not to worry. I will edit -

I'll be the editor, and I promise you it all will be corrected.

Okay? Don't worry about it.

As I say, trust me, folks. I mean, I know how to make a movie. Okay?

All right, so, um -

- Let me just explain it to these guys. - [Greaves] No, it's okay. Please.

I'll cut away to a rowboat or something else - the foliage.

- You know what I mean? - Right.

-Before it gets, uh - -Okay.

All right, um -

I mean, what are you suggesting, that she go that way?

Or we cover her from this side.

That - No, that bothers me. No, I think -

See, that's a natural cut. A natural cut is right-to-left or left-to-right.

- Yeah, I understand. - So when she crosses the axis here,

you really need to be here in order to get her dialogue,

in order to have right screen direction for her to have the dialogue.

I'm gonna stay - I'm gonna stay on him. I'm gonna stay on him.

All right, um -

Usually, that's what I do, is worry about that.

But -

- [man laughs] - You know.

Put in my two cents, right?

[Jonathan] But cinematographers have a different relationship to directors

than many other film craftsmen.

Or correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a more intimate,

collegial, collaborative relationship with the director's eye,

because it's so connected to the cinematographer's eye.

- Is that right, Terry? - [Terry] Yeah, screen -

I would say that 90% of the directors who I work for

haven't got a clue about technical aspects of filmmaking.

[Terry] You think they come out of television?

Well, first of all, a lot of them are first-time directors.

I've worked with a lot who don't have any idea, technically -

- You train them. - Phil?

Now, under normal circumstances -

When you come to William with ideas and suggestions

about, you know, traditional techniques to avoid -

[Phil] He's basically indifferent.

- [laughing] - I mean, he doesn't really care.

-So, I mean, my, you know - -[Terry] Bill doesn't care.

You tell him something, he doesn't care. You say, "This won't cut" -

He was coming left out of your frame and coming the opposite way on my frame.

What do you do in this situation? Get what's correct, or what he wants?

[Phil] In normal circumstances, on a normal movie,

I would be answerable to the producer who would say to me,

- "Why didn't you tell him how to do this?" - Right. Right. Right. Right.

- So, you know, it's a different dynamic. - [Jonathan] What do you do in this case?

In this case, he's the producer and the director,

so you can't really tell him what to do.

So you would - Look - What?

I'd say, in other circumstances,

I would be much more forceful in pushing my, uh,

technical knowledge about how to make a movie.

But it seems to me that he's got his own agenda here,

which is not necessarily the technical aspects of making a movie.

-So - -Or even of postproduction of -

Or of anything - Of anything about making a theatrical film.

So it seems to me that my role here is very different than it would be

in normal circumstances.

He's got an agenda which maybe I don't even understand.

And I can appreciate that, so I'll go with the flow, see where it's taking me.

I'm coming from a director's point - don't want to direct the film or anything.

But I was telling John that it would be interesting to see Audrey

just totally break rank and break, you know, the "actory" -

Something needs to be given to her to just throw her off,

and she can start speaking that German - cussing in German -

and just totally break from her shell, this shield,

this defense she's put up, and just give it to him.

I would like to see less aversion.

Especially because, at the end of his life,

no matter what has happened between them,

there seems to be no forgiveness, you see.

- Mm-hmm. - And I understand the wound, of course.

But there's no forgiveness, you see.

But no forgiveness from the get-go, no forgiveness from the starting gate.

- Why did she come? - Why did she come?

Now, I can see, the way the conversation is going

and the pitiful way he wants to position this,

I can see, ultimately, an aversion -

"Oh, this is too much. I can't go here."

But up to that point, I would think

a little something - more warmth or something

- would be appropriate. - Mm-hmm.

[Greaves] What I love about making films

is that everybody wants to be a director, everybody wants to be a producer.

And this is what Symbio is all about.

You know, that wonderful thing in the crew room where everyone

[chuckles] expresses their need to

control the creation of reality, you know, the cosmos.

[Buscemi] Can we get a camera on Bill?

[Greaves] George Bush - W. - This is what he's trying to -

he wants control of the world - that's what he's trying to do.

I mean, that's when it reaches its highest manifestation, this need to take over -

Well, actually, he's destroying the world in the process of trying to -

You think he really wants to be a director, George Bush?

Yeah, I think he wants to direct humanity.

- Can I ask you a question while waiting? - Sure.

But I don't know, uh -

'Cause we were talking about this, and since you brought it up -

Yeah?

When you made the first Symbiopsychotaxiplasm.♪ Take One -

- Yes. - It was at the height of the Vietnam War.

Now, I know you didn't time this to happen during what's now going on in Iraq,

where there's more -

The war's ended, and there's more soldiers who have been killed -

- Sure. - During - during the war.

- Yeah. - Um -

Of course, during the 1968 shooting

of Symbio One,

uh, ultimately, it was a metaphor for the Vietnam War.

That's what I was saying. Now, you don't -

But you didn't - you didn't see it, or you don't believe it?

- Or it doesn't mean anything to you? - It's just no savvy.

I mean, I don't disbelieve it if he says it,

but from my own point of view, I don't capture that metaphor - I don't get it.

The important thing for me is that, as I said -

Actually, I said it on the grass there when I was meeting with the crew -

It doesn't matter... whether or not you get the metaphor

that the particular artist has in mind,

so long as the people who are viewing the work of art

have some kind of an experience that helps them to, in some way or other,

make certain types of, you know, uh, analyses

and understandings of how the world is working.

[chattering]

- [man] Put your arms around me too. - Everybody loves Shannon.

- I want a hug, Bill. - Yeah, okay.

I love you, Bill. Shannon, I want a hug too.

- Shannon, give me a hug. - [Greaves chuckling]

Yeah, hug her!

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

What I'm planning to do is, uh...

having her turn more -

- Right. I saw that. - So that's - Yeah. That's number one.

And number two is to try to get her - them to start at a different, uh,

emotional and psychological level.

That is to say that she's -

They're pretending that they're quite happy to be together.

- They're pretending? - Yeah. At the beginning.

- Right. - And then only to discover that, uh...

there's a much more serious thing still going on between them,

having to do with this whole issue of

his wanting her to take on the responsibility

of this young woman, this child -

Not child, but this very talented young woman -

- Right. - Who has the talent

to become a big singer like she is at this time in Europe.

And so that's - that's, uh -

that's basically the overall scene.

Why did you insist that we come here - here of all places?

'Cause I love it here, and I thought it would be easier to talk about it -

what's going on with me.

Um...

the HIV medication has stopped working,

and, uh, I started self-medicating.

So, the chances are -

What do you mean, self-medicating?

- I started doing drugs again. - Oh, Jesus.

I mean - Oh, God.

Anyway, what I wanted to ask you was -

- You did what? - Just hear me out. Okay?

What happened is I got involved with, um, one of my clients.

She was a woman with HIV and she died.

She had a daughter, and I promised her when she died

that I would take care of her daughter.

And her daughter's been in a group home.

And if I die, she's not gonna have anybody.

Yeah, but what does that have to do with me?

I'd like for you to meet her,

just to give - just to see if you -

To give an estimation of how good her voice is, or what?

No, just to meet her and see if there's a connection between the two of you.

- And then? - If I should die, then she would have a -

you would -

- She would have a place to go. - She'd have a place to go?

- To Europe. With you. - What do you mean, a place to go?

I would take her back to me -

- To Europe? - Yeah.

She sings. She's beautiful. She reminds me of you.

But why didn't you tell me this on the telephone?

- I couldn't talk about it on the phone. - [laughing]

- Just meet her. - I mean -

- Just meet her, that's all. - [laughing continues]

See what you think.

Really not -

I mean, I really wish you'd said this to me on the telephone.

- You would have had my answer. - I couldn't -

My answer would have been...

as it is now, no.

Short. No.

[Greaves] Okay. Okay.

Um... What do you think?

I mean, all the - all their improvising is great.

- Yeah. - Um...

and I just wonder what -

I mean, what is it that she thinks that he was gonna ask her?

Oh, and did she say the thing about -

'Cause what I liked in the script was when he asks him,

"I'll take care of you. You come to Europe."

Yeah. When she says that, what -

'Cause it seems to me - [clears throat]

that she thinks that he's asked her to come here

because, uh, maybe he wants to be involved with her again.

Yeah.

We were just saying -

I was just wondering...

what do you think -

Why do you think he brought you here?

I mean, you know - I mean, you've already discussed that -

that he's - that you - that he's sick.

- Right? - Yeah.

But this is something we did on the telephone.

I know about his illness. I don't know that he's -

You don't know what, specifically, he's going to talk to you about here.

No. No.

And then he tells me about this, um - this drugging - um, doing drugs.

Right.

But I sense that that is not "it."

You know? That it's something else.

What I was saying to Bill, and what I thought from the script -

- Yeah? - Is that maybe you think

that he wants to get back together with you,

and that you offered to take him to Europe and to take care of him.

And so - And maybe that's - that's really appealing to you.

- Right. - But that's not what he wants.

Then he drops the adopted child on you.

- He - It's not what he wants at all. - Right. Exactly.

[Greaves] The scene...

has a lot of interesting notes that could be played.

- Mm-hmm. - You know?

By you as an actor. Don't you think so?

Yeah. No, I think you two are great together.

Yeah.

You know, the self-control interests me.

Because you have a coming together here

that is so weighted with old emotions,

and how these old emotions trigger things.

[Greaves] Yeah.

And the self-control of these people is sometimes a little disconcerting to me,

because this self-control is so overwhelming.

I thought - or what I understood -

was to play more - the subtlety of this.

- [Greaves] No, I understand. - Yeah?

But - But you are, uh,

an Afro-Caribbean woman, you know, in -

And, uh, there's a Latino component to your personality

where you - you explode.

- You know? - [men laughing]

Let's put it this way - Tomorrow when we do this, which we will do,

-let's try to incorporate - -Okay.

These elements that are coming not just from me,

-but from Steve and from Jonathan - -Right.

Uh, and let's see what happens.

-Okay, if I see her - -Just - Just see her.

If I see her - Just - Just a second.

If I see her and it's only from a distance,

I'm not interested to get involved.

Just - Just see - Just have a look.

- Okay. When? - She's here in the park.

- She's here in the park? - Yeah.

She's here in the park. We can take a walk.

- From a distance. - Why don't you just be honest with me

and say that you've arranged it, and she's here, we're going to see her -

She's here with her friends. She doesn't even know we're here.

She doesn't know we're here, so there's no big deal. She's not gonna see us.

- Yeah? - That's true.

- Yeah, good. - Okay?

We can just walk and - From a distance.

- And - Where? - Come.

- [sighs] - You arranged it all.

No, I didn't. I didn't. Really, I didn't.

Yeah, but how -

Is this really such a coincidence that she is in the park on the same day when -

-She comes here with - -I've been such a long time in Europe -

She comes here with her friends, you know? That's all.

I don't believe this.

-[Greaves] We pick them up after they - -Hello.

- I've been waiting for you. - [Shannon] You have?

I have. I've been waiting for both of you.

- You've been waiting for us? - I have.

Hello. [kisses] I've been waiting for the two of you.

- Thirty-five years I've been waiting. - [Shannon chuckles]

- That's a long wait. - I'm gonna work with you again.

- Again? - I am. We're gonna do psychodrama.

- I remember. Good. - Come on.

- Sorry, but I don't. - You don't remember?

- No. - We did - Do you remember?

- Yeah, of course. - We did psychodrama.

When we - When we enhance the characterization

and we dug for the jewels

in moments when the jewels weren't forthcoming.

[crowd chattering, cheering]

[cheering, chattering continues]

Oh, it's magic.

Oh.

It's magic.

Well, isn't that just...

interesting.

We're going to talk about psychodrama as a tool for the actor

in enhancing the characterization.

For example, the line you had just this morning

saying, "No, no, no."

And you really - We wanted you to get enraged.

Mm-hmm.

And it was very slowly creeping into your voice.

It's just that in psychodrama we can get to that jewel quicker

by having, perhaps, a double - somebody be you with you -

to go to the unspeakable feelings.

- Let's do it. - Let's do it.

- Yeah. - Let's do it.

Come on. Let's walk around and talk about it a minute.

Let me get between you.

[voice echoing] And there were other moments.

For example, I think

-you, Shannon - -Mm-hmm?

Are not saying in the script -

You're telling her she should be the stepmother, in a way -

- Right. - To Jamilla.

But what you're not saying is, I want to be a father to your mother.

I want to have the chance I never had before.

- It's - It's probably true. - I think it's probably true.

[echoing stops] What do you say?

[Audrey] Um, I don't know in which direction this is all going.

- I don't understand it. - Just follow it. Just follow it.

- I'm him. I'm him. - Right. Right.

So I say to you,

I, Shannon, do not want to sever the connection that we've got.

-So what are you gonna say to - -That's the underlying -

Yeah. Just respond to it as if I were Shannon.

Yeah, but I don't either.

- That's what you say then. - [Shannon] That's what she just said.

I don't either. Neither do I. I don't want to sever the connection.

- Right. - Look, we've got Jamilla as a possibility.

You and I could be parents to that child. That's why I'm asking you.

- That's the whole point. - That's the whole point.

That's why I asked you all the way over here from -

- Germany? - From Germany.

- Do you believe that? - Do you?

No, she doesn't believe that.

Okay, now I'm gonna double her. Okay? And I'm gonna be her with -

- So you respond to both of us. - Right.

We're not convinced because -

We're not convinced, because...

I know this man from before, and whatever - what he says -

- Tell him. - I know you from before.

-How long ago - -And I wanted a child with you -

Just shut up. How long ago from before?

- Thirty-five years. - Okay, 35 years ago is a long time ago.

- Thirty-five years! - Shut up.

-Wait a minute - -Don't tell me to shut up!

- Just a second. - Thirty-five years ago.

Thirty-five years, but it's - We're having a continuous -

- [Marcia] Continuous. - Uh, on the telephone.

Do you think anything's happened in 35 years?

- Of course. - Well? So?

- But I don't believe you! - Why don't you shut up.

- You don't think I've changed? - Of course you have.

Shut up!

- Yes. - Okay. That's the whole point.

- What is the whole point? - That people have changed. People change.

You keep going back, hearkening back to 35 years ago -

If you stay back in 35 years ago, then you're get - You know, you're -

-You're gonna make me look after her - -And he's - And he's -

- Tell him! - And you're still alive.

- Yeah. Right. - You're still alive.

- Shut up. - You are still alive.

- You're going to dump this woman on me. - On me!

- That's what you're afraid of? - [Audrey, Marcia] Yes!

- Oh. Okay. - Yes.

So we'll make a written agreement. Okay?

Something written, something very formal,

where we're both responsible for the welfare of this child.

- Okay? - I'd feel more comfortable with that.

- There you go. - Role reverse. Okay?

- I've heard a lot of these promises. - Stop a minute.

- What? You haven't heard bullshit. - Stop a minute. Stop! Stop!

- That's a lie. - Freddie.

- That's a lie. That's a lie. - That's a lie?

- Yeah, it is a lie. - You promised me the earth, Freddie!

- You promised me the earth! - You're an asshole.

- What? - You are an asshole.

You've no idea what you're talking about. She knows what we're talking about.

She knows I've given her plenty. Come on. Don't bullshit me.

Are you Freddie now, or what?

No.

- Yeah, then we have a problem. - We have a problem.

Because I'm dealing with Freddie the whole time, and you're -

I'm dealing with the reality of the moment, which is -

-The reality of the moment - -ls things have changed in 35 years.

- Okay? - Of course. Of course.

Freddie changed. Freddie grows up in 35 years.

- Right. - Okay? That's what happens with people.

- So did I. - Yeah, but everybody changes.

That's what I'm - So I'm asking you to see what's happening in the here and now.

That's all I'm asking you to do.

But the method - the system is the same.

- Nothing has changed. - Has changed!

-If nothing has - if nothing has ch - -And how you were 35 years ago

- is how you are 35 years later. - That's what you see?

-The method - The system in which you - -No, no, no.

- I'm asking you, is that what you see? - From the evidence you've given me, yes.

- What's the evidence? - From how you tell me about this child.

You could have done this on the telephone, but you didn't.

I feel scared in my soul! I feel scared!

-I thought you were dying - -Now, just a minute. This asshole -

I thought you were dying.

- That's why I came over. - No, you didn't.

You did not think that. Come on. You thought I was sick.

-You sounded, on the telephone - -I told you I was sick. All right?

Yes! Why do you think I came?

-She's just - -You think I came -

-You know, you've got - -Go on, tell him. Tell him.

You think I came because of her? I came because of you!

You've got such a fucking mouth. Somebody should smack your mouth.

- Are you Freddie in this moment? - In this moment? Yeah. 35 years later.

- Good. - I came 'cause you were ill.

- Shut the fuck up! What? - So, I came here -

- Right. - Because you needed me.

Right.

-You - -Shut the fuck up, I said!

No!

- I came because of you! - Hey, hey, hey.

-Come on - Come on - -I can't take this kind of bullshit.

This is too much.

I don't like it when people get upset. I can't stand it.

I'm not doing it. This is ridiculous.

I hate it when everybody gets - I hate it.

Gonna sit down here and sulk.

[Marcia] And what are your feelings about it all these years later?

You wanted that baby.

I wanted that child.

You know I wanted that child.

-You said - -[Freddie] Why? Why did you want a child?

What do you mean, why did I want a child? I had a child growing on the inside of me.

-Yeah, but you were - -I wanted to have this baby.

- Why? - Because that's a life.

[scoffs]

That's exactly what you did 30-some years ago.

([imitates scoff)

This is my body.

When I - When I abort,

I aborted something inside of me as well.

Now you're telling me, "Oh -

-No, I'm not telling - -she's such a nice girl.

Come and take her and bring her with you to Europe."

- Hang on a minute. - What?

- But hang on a minute. - What?

-He's offering you - -What is he offering me?

- What are you offering? - No.

- A full-grown woman for a child of my own? - Listen to him.

Listen to him. Listen. Just listen. Be open.

- It's easy for you to talk. - No, why - why should she be open?

Because you're offering her something of you in this child.

So? Maybe she's - Maybe she just - You don't know - You don't know -

She's shut down already. She's got a career.

She's a successful actress. She's got a singing career.

She's got everything she wants. Why should she want to share herself with anything?

Exactly. Why did you drag me here to tell me this bullshit?

[Freddie] That's right. It is bullshit. Right?

- Absolutely. - [Freddie laughing]

You know, all these years I thought I was wrong.

I thought I was wrong. I thought I did something really bad,

that you wanted this baby, that you wanted this chi -

-That is a bloody - -Hold it a minute! Hold it a minute!

- I thought I was wrong! - Don't you shout at me.

Yes, I will, because you have blamed me for 35 years!

- You asshole! - Yes, you have!

- Asshole! - You blame me!

There are women everywhere - they have their babies

and they still have their profession!

- You know what? - Don't you talk to me, you stupid -

- Cut! Cut. - [Freddie] Bullshit!

Cut.

Cut. That's -

Um, now, then,

um...

I think that at this point -

I think, at this point,

um, if you sync -

- [Marcia] We can sit down? - You can sit down.

[Marcia] Yeah? Talk about it again.

Um, you sit down next to her.

- [Greaves] Ready to go back to the script? - [Shannon] Whatever you want.

[Greaves] I think we'd better go back to the script.

- Because it's getting too physical. - I think - I think -

- Go ahead. - You're wanting to give her something.

I think all you're wanting is her tenderness back.

- Audrey? Audrey? - Yes.

Can you come here a second?

But I think what's true - what he says -

I'm trying to give you something by giving you this girl.

I think that's true. He's trying to give you something by giving you this Jamilla.

Yeah, but I don't want to be put under such pressure.

This is too much pressure. This is not helping me at all.

- [Marcia] So let's go back to the script. - Because Alice is not a crybaby.

Alice wants to be able to come into -

- [Marcia] At her speed. - To make a decision at her speed.

[Marcia] At her speed. Yeah. Okay.

She's a very independent woman, and she wants to be able to say,

"Okay, let me start now making a few steps in this direction."

My way. My way. Not your way. Yeah. Absolutely.

Because it's like - [groans]

- [Marcia] Right. Right. Right. - Alice doesn't need that.

[Marcia] But you need the freedom to make the decision.

- [Greaves] How does that sound? - [Shannon] That's fine.

[Greaves] That's wonderful. Good. Terrific.

How would it be if they started it off with just a hug?

- Okay? - What are we starting from?

An improvisation, or are we going back to the text?

You're going back to the text.

[Marcia] I'll get it again. Yeah, I'll get it.

I think that would be - that would be a very, uh,

good entry point

to, uh, get back into the text.

- Let's see. - Whoops. Oh, sorry.

Okay. Here's the top one.

[Greaves] "Why should I be -" Dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah-dah.

Now, Freddie...

- will you remember these lines? - Mm-hmm.

-Will you be remembering - -Freddie, you're amazing.

She's lovely. She reminds me of you.

- Good! - [Marcia] Lovely. Beautiful.

Wonderful! Shit, that's wonderful!

- [Marcia] Beautiful. Come on, let's go. - Keep going.

-I mean, really - -[both laughing]

- [man] You out? - I'm sorry.

I'm sorry I was so -

-You know, but, God - -What?

- You're asking a lot. - I know.

Give her a chance.

How do you know I'd even be interested? How do you know this?

I don't know. I know you.

You're wonderful.

[laughs] You - You are.

Why don't you just see her?

What?

[kisses] Hmm?

What's her name?

Her name is Jamilla.

What if she doesn't like me?

Then we'll -

we'll call the whole thing off, but she'll love you.

She can - She sees you through my eyes already.

I told her a little bit about you.

- Oh, Freddie! - She wanted to know -

She wanted to know who I was married to.

Okay - You know, that's - that's pushing it again. Really.

[marathon spectators cheering, shouting, applauding]

When people have asked me what the film is about, I say

it's a study of the film acting craft as it intersects with real life.

Now, mostly I say that just to satisfy their curiosity,

because that satisfies people of various levels of intelligence.

It's complex-sounding enough to satisfy them,

and then they feel like it's a respectful answer and they're satisfied.

But by locating this thing in a place where something actual is going on -

- [cheering, applauding continue] - not only the random potential we've seen,

which would be - which is any huge public space like this,

but the specific activity of a marathon, when,

really, people's consciousness is devoted to the marathon -

We are a very, very small part of what's going on in New York today.

Uh, to locate us in such a huge event,

with the public consciousness so hugely focused on something else,

is also a way of intersecting this little project

with something much larger than ourselves and something that's completely real.

- Hey. - Hi. How are you?

- This is Alice. - Hi. Nice to meet you.

Hi.

- What's your name? - Ade.

- Ade? Ade's your real name? - [Greaves] Cut! Cut!

- Cut! Cut! - I'm sorry!

- It's Jamilla. - I thought that -

I'm sorry! [laughing]

Jamilla, Jamilla, Jamilla.

You don't come out to meet them. You just sit there, and then you come out.

- Come on, let's do it again. - All right, this is take two.

- [Audrey] Good idea. - [cheering, applauding continue]

[radio beeps]

10-4-K. We have a film crew here from William Greaves Productions.

They have a mayor's office permit.

They do not have a parks department permit for filming.

Uh, but they are mentioning a contact person. Okay?

- Can you give me that name again, please? - Dana Waites.

[radio beeps]

10-6-K.

- Where, exactly, were you looking to go? - Strawberry Fields.

Okay, Strawberry Fields is totally sealed off.

- Really? - [woman] Until when?

Until the end of this marathon.

- Until the end of the marathon? - Until the end.

[cheering, applauding continue]

[no audible dialogue]

- [cheering, applauding continue] - [faint] Where do you come from?

[no audible dialogue]

- [no audible dialogue] - [cheering, applauding continue]