Original subtitles

[crew member] This is Tyra, take two, common mark, soft sticks.

[producer] What was the toughest moment for you while filming the show?

Toughest moment? Hmm...

[producer] Tiffany, maybe?

I'm thinking that. That was very tough for me. Yeah.

Yeah.

[dramatic music playing]

-Somebody's back. -Hey, I'm back.

[Tiffany] Last time I came here, I tried out. I didn't get in.

It would have been a big change from hustling to being a glamour girl anyway.

It's cool. You know, I'm used to failing. Somebody got to fail, right?

Tiffany, that girl… That girl was my heart.

She didn't make it the first year because she got into a fight in a bar.

But we mentored her off-camera

and said, "We feel like the show is gonna be amazing for you."

"Let's get you the help you need." Our team did.

I don't jump on people and throw glasses and stuff like that anymore.

I'm just not like that anymore.

Tiffany grabbed her problems by the reins. She got it together.

She came back. That girl wants to change her life.

I thought she was gonna win.

But what happened later is the most discussed scene

in the history of Top Model.

[tense music playing]

[Tyra] So now it's time for your individual evaluations.

The girls were tasked with reading a teleprompter…

[model] Christian Lacroix.

Christian Locksroy.

Christina Lec…

[Zakiya] …filled with all these, you know, designer names, a lot of French names.

-I don't know that word. -None of you girls can read.

Pretty much, they were set up to fail.

Hi, I'm Tiffany. It's Fashion Week in Paris.

Technicolor is the name of the game. Can you…? I can't do this.

[Tyra] I just wanted to change this woman's life.

I felt like she could have been a supermodel with a capital S.

Tiffany, the other girls did not know these words. They goofed the words.

Go through it. Just have fun with it. Use your personality. Be you.

I don't know.

If you don't do this, you're gonna go home.

And I just saw all that going down the drain.

I saw her just not believing in herself and just giving up,

and not just giving up on a modeling competition.

It's just… but deeper.

[sighing] This is humiliating.

[music continues]

I think she wants it, but she's so intimidated by it,

she'd rather say goodbye to it before it says goodbye to her.

There needs to be something that really gets the competition going again.

They need a wake-up call.

[Zakiya] Later in that episode,

Tyra does something that she hadn't done before.

[Tyra] Both of you will pack your bags.

[Zakiya] She sent two girls home.

[Tiffany] Cheer up. What an idiot.

Looking all sad.

Tyra really wanted people to take it seriously.

[Tiffany] Oh, girl, you gotta stop.

[Jay] She's feeling that Tiffany's mocking this.

That struck a chord.

[Tyra] Can you guys stand in front of me? I wanna say one more thing to you.

Tiffany, I'm extremely disappointed in you.

[dramatic sting]

This is a joke to you. You've been through anger management,

your grandmother getting her lights turned off

to buy you a swimsuit for this competition,

and you go over there, and you joke and you laugh?

Looks can be deceiving. I'm hurt. I am.

But I'm sick of crying about stuff that I cannot change.

I'm sick of being disappointed, all of it. I'm not… Thank you.

-You're not sick of being disappointed. -Obviously, I am.

No you're not. If you were sick of being disappointed,

you would stand up and you would take control of your destiny.

Do you know that you had a possibility to win?

Do you know that all of America is rooting for you?

When I see this beautiful girl who made some mistakes in the season before

and didn't make it, and then we worked with her to get her here…

You come in here, look at that and say, "I can't read that."

You read ten times better than half of those girls.

And to see her, like, just kind of giving up. I just…

You come in here with a defeatist attitude.

I don't have a bad attitude. Maybe I am angry inside.

I've been through stuff, so I'm angry.

-Yes. But it's not… This is not… -Be quiet, Tiffany. Be quiet!

[music crescendoes and stops]

I have never in my life yelled at a girl like this.

When my mother yells like this, it's because she loves me.

I was rooting for you! We were all rooting for you! How dare you!

Tyra really scared all of us.

We literally jumped out of our seats. What is happening right now?

It was definitely the most difficult moment on set I had ever experienced.

It was ugly.

Learn something from this!

You rolling your eyes, you act like this because you've heard it all before.

You don't know where the hell I come from. You have no idea what I've been through.

But I'm not a victim. I grow from it and I learn.

Take responsibility for yourself!

[dramatic music playing]

When they were done shooting,

production staff literally just, like, took Tyra off set.

[man] It was very scary.

It was like she went off, and Tyra never went off.

Tyra must have really saw herself in that girl.

[Tyra] I went too far.

You know, I lost it.

It was probably bigger than her.

It was family, friends, society, Black girls, all the challenges we have.

So many people saying that we're not good enough.

I think all that was in that moment.

That's some Black girl stuff that goes real deep inside of me,

but I knew I went too far.

I'm not finna break down for you or nobody else.

You ain't did **** for me but bring me here and put me through hell.

[Jay] There was a lot more that was really said.

And some of the things that were said were really not well-intentioned.

I will probably never repeat the lines

that were actually said in that room that day.

All I know is the next week we had all the lawyers on set.

[Tiffany] In all of my interviews, I will always tell people, I feel like

the reason that she yelled at me was because she loved me?

That was bull. If she loved me,

she wouldn't have showed it the way she showed it.

If you love someone, you won't humiliate them.

People have tried to make it something funny, but it really wasn't.

[electricity fizzling]

Okay, so it is 12 midnight,

and we've already started getting the girls ready in hair and makeup…

As I reached Cycle 8, I kind of felt things really changing.

[dramatic music playing]

We were supposed to be showing the behind the scenes of what the fashion world was,

helping change the industry.

And I just wanted everyone to have their best possible shot.

But the show had evolved in a way I had never expected.

[bull bellowing]

There was this version of me on this show, which was me but not really me.

Today, we're gonna do the most controversial shoot

we've ever done on America's Next Top Model.

Because Tyra would always reinforce, "We need to keep it entertaining."

"We need to keep people watching."

So it's like, how can you be entertaining?

I need you to give me that kind of strung-out look.

Hey, Michelle, it looks really good.

[camera clicking]

[producer] Did you ever have a moment in which you went to Tyra or to Ken

and be like, "I didn't like what you did to these girls,"

just like, "This scene was not cool"?

Of course there were gobsmacked moments where you watch and you're like, "Oof."

[tsks] "Okay. Like…" [sucks teeth]

But it was certainly not my place to, you know, I... I would never...

tell them, I'm like, "Oh, you should have never."

And that was slowly depleting me and kind of chipping away at my soul.

So it was time to tell Tyra that I wanted to leave the show.

[pensive music playing]

Tyra and I weren't the traditional work relationship.

And you work in such close proximity and traveling together.

You know, it becomes... it becomes like a relationship.

And I was afraid of saying the wrong thing.

[inaudible]

And I definitely did not wanna make her upset.

I tortured myself over the decision. It did not come lightly.

I didn't discuss it with anyone, Miss J, like nobody, like, knew.

Jay Manuel, he keeps everything to his chest.

He's very secretive.

Very, very, very, very, very secretive.

[Jay] Tyra had made a pact with me around Cycle 3 or 4.

She said, "When it comes to anything important,

let's always promise each other we'll come to each other first."

So I knew that I had to tell her first.

So I sent her the email,

just expressing the utter gratitude for this opportunity

and to be able to help her realize this.

But also, I was trying to kind of move on in my own life and career, and…

She didn't respond.

It was probably the longest three days ever.

And she ultimately wrote back just three words.

[music stops]

"I am disappointed."

After that email exchange,

all communication just stopped.

It should've been the opportunity to have a heart-to-heart,

but that did not happen.

[dramatic music playing]

I took a one-week vacation in St. Lucia.

And then reception came with an urgent note from my attorney.

I called my attorney, and he said,

"This is an ask coming through business affairs."

They said, "We just need a little more time."

"Can you just do one cycle for us, just Cycle 9?"

And then there was a warning

that strikes the fear of God in you.

You know, people talk about being blacklisted.

Those words were not used, but I had suspected that

that's what it would turn into.

And then I didn't know who to talk to because honestly,

the person I would always talk to

was Tyra.

[music fades]

And then I tried to… I thought… I thought…

I could fix that.

I just decided, I thought, you know, one season.

[inhales deeply]

You know, what… what could happen?

[foghorn blaring]

Take off your blindfolds. This is your home for the next week.

[Jay] We had to do the casting episode. It was on the boat.

I hadn't spoken to Tyra. I was extremely nervous. Oh my God.

So, you get your microphone on and everything, and then we sit down.

And I was like, "Oh, thank God."

I'm thinking, a moment I can just talk to her. I'm like…

"Hey, Tyra, like, I just wanted to real quick…"

[silence]

And…

[tense music playing]

That was the first time I really realized there was a real problem.

She wouldn't speak with me.

Is that it? Oh God, it's Tyra. Hey, girl.

[Jay] And it was clear I didn't know what to do

because I just sat there and I just was, the girl came in and we talked, and…

-Come on, Tyra. Oh my God. -[Tyra] Okay, I'll just…

[Jay] I guess I'll just sit here.

Six, seven, eight.

And then she leaned over. She put her arm around me.

"What do you think, Jay?"

-What do you think about her? -She's… I love her.

The bitchy bitch that I've seen, like, here.

[Jay] Uh-oh, who's the bitchy bitch? That's what we wanna know.

So,

on camera, we learned to play, laugh,

but it was just clear I was not allowed to speak with her outside of that,

which, after that first day, I thought,

"There is absolutely no way I'm gonna survive this cycle."

[tense music playing]

When we were shooting in China, I was tired, and I was scared.

Do I remember inklings of there being some sort of issue here and there?

I do, but I had no idea that it was that raw.

I was still trying to process what was going on.

[Miss J] I always thought that Jay,

he wouldn't wanna say anything insulting to Tyra.

Jump! None of the other girls jumped. Best shoot.

-That's her best shoot. -Wow.

I just, it was like psychological torture. I…

I just, I felt broken.

[producer] Can we talk now about what happened with you and Jay?

Nah.

I'd prefer… I… Yeah, I should call Jay.

-I don't wanna do this here. -[producer] Do it yourself.

Yeah, yeah, but he's a special man.

[dramatic music playing]

[Jay] At that point…

Hey, good morning.

…my job had changed.

I no longer was producing creative.

The only thing I was responsible for producing per my contract

is the final runway.

[inaudible]

I was now just on-camera talent.

I showed up. "Hey, girls, today's photo shoot is all about da-da-da-da-da."

They tell you to stand here and say this. That's your job.

And I started really paying attention

to what was starting to happen behind the scenes.

[Tyra] Is that hair I'm seeing under the arm?

What is up with the armpits, girl?

-I thought that was gonna get touched up. -Oh my God.

-Really sorry. I'll go home and shave. -You know how expensive retouching is?

There were definite photos selected that we felt, we were like, "Wait, what?"

[Tyra] The other thing that worries me

is that kind of long drool coming off of your chin.

-[chuckles] -That makes no sense.

Ken and his team and Tyra, they knew what they were doing.

That is where I started to learn the art of the storytelling.

I would really hate for the judges to say, "You know what, she's got the look,

she takes pretty pictures, but she's consistently controlled."

If there were certain girls that were not performing well on a shoot,

I would sometimes be pulled aside and say, "Okay."

"This person, we have this story."

"We need them to go forward at least a couple more episodes."

"Get us there." We have to let go of the control.

Where do you not feel good enough? Tell me. Talk to me.

I don't trust myself.

Because if the photos are just crappy,

it will become hard to say this person deserves to stay in the competition.

-Ooh. -Good job. Give me a hug.

Before it is a modeling show, it is a television show.

[Miss J] I think Nik is great. I love this picture of her.

But Nik's personality is so kind of wishy-washy still.

Personality beat out pictures.

Each week that she comes, I am just bored to death.

They didn't always choose our best picture.

You guys used my worst one.

-You're saying this is your worst one? -The other one, I did the lines perfectly.

Who doesn't think it was their best take?

[Jay] Initially, they were really trying to pull the best shots.

But as we started getting into story,

then it turned into, "We need better story out of these shots."

So sometimes, and I had no control over this, I lost my control.

When a girl is eliminated, another shot was selected.

[judge] You're giving us a high fashion look, but in fact, you just look sleepy.

Sometimes, not always, it was not her best shot.

There was a better shot.

Oh.

The lack of ethics behind the scenes to make "good TV," it's really disturbing.

[indistinct chatter]

[praying indistinctly]

[Zakiya] Because for these girls, this is their life.

A lot of these girls are like, "I wanna help my mom."

"I'm stuck at a dead-end job. I have no other recourse."

-It was life or death for them. -[crying]

There has always been so much more at stake emotionally in Top Model

than you have in a typical reality competition, which is just a game.

Top Model was very different in that the prize was

the promise of a career,

the chance to be a model, to become America's Next Top Model.

For the girls that were in this show, this was about

trying to achieve your dream.

Dionne and Natasha, please step forward.

When I was eliminated, I was fucking shocked.

I became so numb, I couldn't even move.

[Nigel] Did we always get it right? I don't think so, no.

I think sometimes we eliminated the wrong person,

but that's the way it goes.

[somber music playing]

Kahlen.

When you get that close, you just know it's going to be your picture.

You know it's gonna be you. You know you're going to make it.

I definitely was crushed.

Really wanted to be one of the last two.

I really thought it was going to be me.

Maybe we could have done a better job to let them know

that not everybody's going to be a star.

I can't go back to doing what I was doing. It was killing me.

[Jay] What happened is you were filmed packing your bag…

[zipper closing]

…exiting the model apartment,

and then a production assistant took you to a hotel room.

You don't go home.

Everyone stays with the production

until the very end for confidentiality reasons.

There wasn't a phone available to call anybody at that time.

And then, of course, even if I did, I would not have been able to tell them,

"Hey, I've just been eliminated."

I couldn't disclose that information.

[producer] Did Tyra or any of the producers call you later and say,

"Hey, thanks for being on"?

No.

They were just kind of left, eliminated. It was just awful.

[crying]

[sniffling]

[sobbing]

[Miss J] I felt sorry for them.

But… I just know that it's a dog-eat-dog world out there.

In the real world, they eat you up and spit you right out.

[dramatic music playing]

[Dionne] As soon as you get off the plane and go back home, reality sets in.

Are you gonna take a shot at modeling? Are you gonna try and move to New York?

There is no guidance. You have to figure it out on your own.

[newscaster] We were rooting for all of these supermodel hopefuls

back in the day.

I would do where-they-are-now videos for the girls of America's Next Top Model,

but the truth is I don't know where they at either.

I wouldn't say that there were clients knocking down doors, being like,

"We saw Laura on the show. We really want to hire her."

Yeah, things didn't work out the way I was promised and stuff,

but life isn't fair and you move on.

Well, I'm actually the winner of America's Next Top Model, so…

Sorry, you're still not what we're looking for.

[camera clicking]

[Keenyah] I couldn't use any of the photos from America's Next Top Model

in my actual modeling portfolio.

The photo shoots were way overly-themed, way too much makeup.

I got really far in this competition,

but then in real life, I was, in the modeling industry, was nobody.

[Dionne] I came to New York several times

to take a stab at, you know, trying to get signed to an agency.

It did not work out.

[music fades out]

There was a stigma to being part of a reality series.

Not anymore.

[hopeful music playing]

People would love to be on a reality series now

to get their brand out there

because now the world is completely different.

What Top Model did was really create the beginning of influencers.

These days, everyone is a supermodel.

Everyone is an influencer. Everyone is famous.

There are tons of people out there now going directly to the public

without the gatekeepers that used to be in place.

[Jay] You take control of your own narrative today,

but at that time, it was absolutely not something that you did.

The girls that are successful now are running

because the other ones walked first.

We opened the door.

We slammed it wide open,

and so many came through.

[indistinct]

Eva the Diva, who was 5'5", 5'6".

Isis, one of the first trans people on a huge, successful show like that.

And Winnie Harlow is one of the biggest models on the planet.

Whitney, our first "plus-size," hate the word, curve model to win.

[Whitney] When I won...

[yelps]

...this was like a big deal that a plus-size model was winning on the show.

And then, of course, I got a contract with Elite Model Management,

and they didn't even have a plus division.

So it's like, what kind of fucking joke is this?

I really had to fight for a place,

but eventually, I ended up being the first plus-size model

for so many massive companies.

[cameras clicking]

And finally, these models later were able to get that success,

but it's on the backs of the ones that opened that door.

[suspenseful music playing]

America's Next Top Model is Danielle.

[inaudible]

That is me on that picture. Oh my God, that's me.

I remember thinking, "Life happens after winning ANTM."

Life begins.

Literally, the 12-year-old Danielle is like, "We're up. We won, right?"

Like, "We're here. We're here!"

New York, professional model, like, it's only up from here.

I'm a cover girl, Mommy. I'm a cover girl.

But those cameras shut down on Top Model, and they just threw me to the wolves.

[dramatic music playing]

When I moved to New York in July, I moved right into the models' apartment.

My agent at the time at Ford called me

and she was like, "You need to come into the agency."

[elevator dings]

The energy at the agency was just, like, off-putting.

It was cold. It was a very, like, cold interaction.

And that was the hardest thing because I'm new to the industry.

I'm signed to you guys,

but it was like I was the redheaded stepchild

or better yet, the black sheep. Like, why are you here?

And I sat in the models' apartment for months, never going on castings.

[producer] Did you know of other girls around you

who weren't on the show that were thriving?

Thriving.

Like, I lived in the models' apartment with Chanel Iman

who went on to become, like, a very prominent top model.

And I remember her coming home this one day, this one morning.

She was like, "I finally asked our agent

why you never have castings

whenever I go get the castings for the girls."

And she said to me,

"Well, we have to treat Dani differently because she came from Top Model."

[tense music playing]

That was a hard, hard pill to swallow.

My experiences mirrored that.

I remember my first show season

I didn't book any shows.

What I was told was that no one wanted to book me for their shows

because I was viewed as, like, this reality star.

And designers didn't want me walking in their show to take attention, if you will,

off of their collection and onto myself.

And so I knew very early on that "Oh, Top Model has a stigma."

I've already lived 20 years in the real modeling industry

and gotten my ass handed to me.

So I was never able to rise to the level that I could have or should have.

What angers me the most is the conversation

that Tyra had with me years later.

She told me that…

She was like, "I knew that there were certain doors

that you couldn't even get into because you did Top Model."

"And I did nothing about it."

And she said to me, "I always rode the fence with you."

[sniffling]

[sniffles]

And that's when I said, "Respectfully, Tyra, you have no fucking idea

how painful it has been for me."

You have no fucking idea.

But for you to admit to me all these years, 15 years later,

"I know the hell that you've been going through."

"I know that you couldn't even walk through the threshold of certain doors."

And so to have her, a Black woman, say to me…

[sniffles]

…over the phone that, "I knew you were struggling, and I did nothing about it"?

[sniffles] What?

You don't gotta support me, you don't even got to like me,

but don't see me and my suffering and just walk past me.

[sniffles] That's so fucked up.

[somber music playing]

They built a whole empire, multi-million-dollar brand

known as America's Next Top Model

off the backs of every girl's dream that did that show,

and it never became realized.

The vast majority of the girls

were kind of right back at square one, or even worse.

[sirens wailing in the distance]

[Shandi] After the show, I felt really broken.

[producer] Can you tell me what happened with Tyra later on

when she invited you to her talk show?

Um...

It's a Top Model reunion today,

and don't forget to check out season five when it premieres tonight on UPN.

[Shandi] She was asking me about what happened in Milan,

and I told her I'd never seen it.

It brought up too many things.

And then I was like, "I can't watch the show anymore."

And then she just puts it on the screen in front of me.

[Tyra] I'm gonna roll a little clip that a lot of us remember.

[tense music playing]

And I don't look at it. And she's like, "I noticed you weren't looking."

[Tyra] You weren't watching that. You're looking down.

-How come you can't watch that? -I just can't do it.

[Tyra] Really? It brings back, like, all the old stuff.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like, "I literally told you behind the scenes."

"Like, don't… I've never seen it. I don't wanna see it. Don't show it."

You didn't respect that at all.

That's awful.

That was miserable.

Miserable.

That behavior doesn't stop.

Her behavior doesn't... doesn't change.

[Tyra] Everybody wants to know. Are you still with your boyfriend?

No, I'm single now.

-[Tyra] You're single? -Yeah.

[Tyra] Why did you guys break up?

Um, well, he couldn't get over it.

He couldn't get over that. But you were together for like…

I remember after, you were together.

[Shandi] Me and Eric, we tried.

[inaudible]

We really tried. I mean, he moved with me to New York after the show.

But it would suck when I'd be walking with Eric down the street

and somebody'd recognize me and call me a slut to my face.

Or a cheating whore. Eric standing right next to me.

That was fun.

It made me hate myself.

[music continues]

If you want drama, try putting 13 aspiring young models in a house

to see who will become America's Next Top Model.

I am proud of my Top Model girls.

[audience cheering, applauding]

[Shandi] After Top Model,

we thought one of us was gonna

be with a top modeling agency, and that was gonna be our new career.

No.

Were you the one that was on the modeling thing?

-Mm-hmm. -Oh.

Still working at Walgreens.

You're all going to be blind as a bat.

I don't like semen.

-[Miss J] Ignite that flame. -[Jay] Shooting in a Greek salad.

[models] Say nooch to the hoochie tooch.

[cheering]

As the show went on, Dawn had left.

[dramatic music playing]

Then there was a new president that came in, Mark Pedowitz.

[Tyra] I remember I was getting a phone call from the network every day

saying they need to talk to me, they need to talk to me.

And I just kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off.

My assistant would be telling me this,

"They really need to talk to you. They really need to talk to you."

And finally, the head of the network, he said, "Get her on the phone now."

[music fades]

I took his call, and I'll never forget.

[pensive music playing]

He said, "The show is the biggest thing in the world,

but it won't always be."

"And it's taking a dip."

The head of the network said, "The show is in a mature phase,

and we need to make a significant change."

And there are no sacred cows.

-[cameras clicking] -[indistinct chatter]

You have to let go

of this, this, and this.

Three of my hearts.

[dramatic music playing]

Mr. Jay, Miss J, and Nigel.

It shocked me. I was like, "What?" There was no need to replace them.

[intriguing music playing]

[Miss J] For my birthday, Tyra sent me flowers.

I said, "Oh, how sweet."

There was a note.

"Happy birthday. Love, Tyra."

And then, um, I was fired five days later.

Eleven girls stand before me, but I only have ten photos in my hands.

I remember them saying,

"We've decided we're gonna go in a completely different direction."

We were not gonna be renewed.

The girl that I do not call must immediately return to your house,

pack your belongings, and go home.

You wanna talk about being slapped across the face

and then slapped right back.

If I honestly had to publish this picture, I'd crop you right out of it.

Come on, give me a break.

I was the spine of the show.

You look like when Moses parted the Red Sea,

you were on the other side fishing. That's how old you look.

And then bye.

Ratings are down.

We're cutting the fat off the show

that's bringing the ratings down was the "implication" that it was us three.

That was really tough. It was somewhat mercenary.

Unless you are Tyra Banks,

I'm afraid you're expendable and they will swap you out just like that.

[music continues]

-Ciao. -[Velcro ripping]

As people got eliminated on our show, we also got eliminated.

We have three cards in front of us, and none of you have made it.

[music stops]

[Jay] So, Tyra, what did you think of her?

-In my light. -[Jay] That is in your light. Trust me.

-What did I think? -[Jay] What'd you think?

-What is this for? -[Jay] Just a different angle.

Don't put it on your website.

[Jay laughs] I'm not putting it on my website.

When I wanted to leave,

[dramatic music playing]

I wasn't afforded that.

And then I work on the show from Cycles 10 through 18.

I made so many concessions.

[sighing]

That's the part that's the most hurtful.

We were gonna put out one joint press release,

and they said we would all get a quote in this press release.

We see it all the time in television shows,

people saying so-and-so and so-and-so have decided to part ways.

And Tyra's like, "We'll put out in our press release how, you know,

we're gonna continue to work together and blah, blah, blah."

So we agreed to that.

[dramatic music plays]

Tyra Banks has fired her panel of experts.

Oh my God.

There was a "leak" to Page Six that said the three of us were fired.

[reporter] Banks booted judges Nigel Barker, Jay Manuel, and Miss J

in a stunning Top Model housecleaning.

I said… [groaning]

A "leak" to Page Six?

That show, the way we ran confidentiality and we're on these conference calls,

there's no leak to Page Six.

Anyone can assume where that came from.

You now put that out there that way, and we can't undo that,

no matter what we say.

I mean, that's the double slap.

That's the part that you… you then have to live with.

That was probably the… the lowest point for me.

[Jay] Nigel, I just remember him being,

and I didn't know him to be this way,

I could feel, it was quite palpable how upset he was.

[Nigel] It was difficult because I didn't have a backup plan at that point

because I had been on Top Model for 17 seasons

and had been really in the show kind of growing up with my family

on America's Next Top Model.

It was disappointing, and we felt a little bit, like, betrayed.

[Jay] Why would you not allow people who've been a part of your show

since its inception to move forward in their career with grace?

[music continues]

It gives people their dignity.

It was very deliberate.

I'd heard them say on set many times,

"What do we gotta do to create drama?"

[music building]

We were gonna be the drama.

For the very first time, the three stars of America's Next Top Model,

who were all just fired by Tyra Banks, in their first TV interview together.

As soon as the news broke, you saw the headlines I'm sure

as soon as they were coming out and all said "judges fired."

That's how people were putting it.

Do you feel blindsided by what happened?

I think more than anything, I feel a little sad.

Well, I got flowers last week sent to me by Tyra.

-[A.J. Hammer] To soften the blow? -[all laughing]

That's what I kinda thought. I said to myself, "Hmm."

Hmm.

I just sat there like this.

[Hammer] What I'm also interested to know is

if this in any way is kind of a relief.

I mean, let's face it, I worked with Tyra from way back when.

Her reputation precedes her. She is tough to work for.

And then, of course, the question that was posed directly to me.

How tough was Tyra to work for?

J grabs my knee like, "Go ahead, girl."

[laughing] Like, it's just like,

"J, like, why are you doing this to me?"

We had to speak very carefully.

You know, contractually at the time,

you know, there are only certain things you can speak about around production

and what have you legally.

Ken, Tyra, they were all watching us live. I know that.

And I just thought, "She's waiting for my answer." And…

Well, you know, here's the thing. I'm… I'm a perfectionist too.

I usually demand a lot, you know, for people who work with me.

-It's true. It's-- -[Nigel] Could you imagine?

-[Hammer] No, I can't. -You know, it is.

I think that was our initial connection…

I still really respected her as a model and a business mind.

In terms of her being specifically difficult or rude, that's not Tyra's…

She's not the type of person to walk out and oust you--

She has a very strong work ethic and… and knows what she wants.

-I'm sure we all do. -Yeah. So let me just ask…

[Jay] It felt like the culmination of how our entire relationship

and how I always viewed her.

I have to do something to fix and bridge the gap.

Like, that's how I looked at it. And that's just who I was.

[Hammer] "Fierce and love to my Nigel Barker, Mr. Jay Manuel, and Miss J."

"America's Next Top Model turned us into a family…"

[Tyra] That was some of the hardest news I have ever had to deliver

in my existence.

I cried myself to sleep that night.

You know, they were there from the beginning.

Best friend, in the bed, coming up with photo shoots,

backstage at fashion shows, hanging, laying on them.

Some of the closest people to me in my life.

And me and Ken have to deliver that news

that the deal is up, that it is over?

You can imagine what that feels like.

[dramatic music continues]

[Tyra] But bosses have bosses.

And the big boss was very clear.

There are no sacred cows. And I heard that meaning, "You too, Tyra."

"So pick up the phone and do what I'm telling you to do."

And the thing is,

I don't believe that they knew that it came from above.

No matter how much Ken and I were explaining this was not our decision,

to this day, I think they think that it was me and Ken.

Yeah.

She was willing to do anything for her show,

however you want to look at that. Clearly, even in that situation,

she would do anything for the success of her show.

[tropical music playing]

[breathing heavy] Patrick, I'm totally freaking out right now.

Ty, why?

It's the 19th Cycle.

Ooh, 19th Cycle.

I need a whole new direction for the new season.

A total H2T makeover.

It's gotta be fierce.

It's gotta be totally amazing.

It's gotta be… [gasps]

[both] Totes amaze!

[dramatic music playing]

A lot of reality shows fall into this trap of trying to stay relevant.

[Tyra] This cycle, I opened up the competition

exclusively to girls 5'7" and under.

Trying to reinvent.

You think you're about to see a typical episode of Top Model?

I'm gonna take a cue from Twitter king

and ultimate prankster himself, Ashton Kutcher.

[Zakiya] And so they lean on gimmicks. They jump the shark.

I went through all the past cycles and brought back your favorite.

I made everything bigger.

I'm talking celebrities as mentors.

The Kardashians.

Ready, set.

The fire kind of went out a little bit.

[Tyra] The British are coming. The British are coming.

May the best Brit or the best Yank win.

It hit me after graduating from Harvard. We just have to do a college cycle.

[Zakiya] All of these...

big changes that kind of reeked of desperation

was just writing on the wall.

I'm making you a judge.

You, the fan, have a voice in the judging room.

They thought by us leaving that people would come back and watch

to see what the new guard was like and it was gonna be a ratings bump.

The ratings went down dramatically

and then continued to decline quite rapidly.

Up to now, you know there were no boys allowed on Top Model.

-That was then, and this is now. -I can smize.

It just felt like this empire was crumbling right before our eyes.

[dramatic sting]

[Tyra] It's very important that when you toot your booty

that you don't hootie toot it.

[man] She is cuckoo.

Each and every girl on the planet has a chance to be one of the enlightened.

Top Model's very first face wave.

Pot Ledom is a twist on Top Model.

I don't think you deserve for me to tell you what that means.

-Over 100 million hits. -Toot and boot.

Holla.

This is some nonsense. Like I don't even, like, what are we doing?

♪ ...We spell beauty ♪

♪ B-O-O-T-Y ♪

♪ Uh-huh Juicy, skinny booty ♪

- ♪ Uh-huh ♪ -♪ B-E-A-U-T-Y ♪

[music stops]

After Cycle 22, the network came back to me and said,

"We don't want Tyra to be the host of the show."

[tense music playing]

And I'm like, "You're crazy. She is the show."

Mm-mm.

No sacred cows.

This is my baby.

That was my life.

It was like my right hand was gone.

Welcome to America's Next Top Model.

[audience cheering]

[Ken] They replaced Tyra.

We got a new host, and you know, everything changed.

And that's when I was like, "I'm logging off."

They've lost the plot.

[static buzzing]

America's Next Top Model stayed on the air for 24 cycles.

And by the end,

we kind of mutually decided that we didn't want to do it anymore.

It had run its course.

Times were changing, and it was probably just time to put it down

and do something different.

[dramatic music playing]

[camera clicking]

What happened after the show

is because I became known for doing such elaborate photo shoots,

I also got booked to do those sorts of shoots in real life.

I shot an entire book with Taylor Swift.

I ended up working with Miss Universe and Miss USA.

If you don't already know, if you're living under a rock, it is Jay Manuel.

[Jay] People knew me as a personality.

So I ended up with a contract with E!.

I did a cosmetic company, and eventually I wrote a novel.

The Wig, the Bitch & the Meltdown.

The book is really inspired by my life in the whole kind of crazy world

of reality TV and the entertainment industry.

Let's just be clear. It's a novel. [chuckling]

J has just been off on a Top Model tour.

I went on to do Top Model Russia.

China as well.

I am here with J. Alexander, a legend in the fashion world

and a huge part of the success of our fashion program at SCAD.

I was at SCAD for 15 years.

[music continues]

How do I maintain my icon status?

Very simple, be me and be authentic. I've always been authentic.

[music fades out]

But then,

everything changed.

Okay, so here's my room that I have been living in

for one year and five months, maybe.

[somber music playing]

On December 27th of 2022,

I had a stroke.

[machine beeping]

[electricity buzzing]

I woke up.

I didn't know where I was other than in the hospital.

I spent five weeks in a coma,

and I couldn't walk.

And I couldn't talk.

And I thought to myself what was I going to do?

And that I couldn't walk, and I couldn't speak.

[music continues]

It was emotional. I cried.

I'm not ashamed to say that I cried.

And then once I was in the hospital,

that Jay and Nigel came to visit.

[Nigel] I don't know whether he even wanted me to see him that way.

I was going to go see him.

And that was just such a terrible shock

and really upsetting and horrifying and scary.

[Jay] I could feel how upset he was for sure.

I can only imagine where he was in his mind.

You know, when he saw me, he was, like, happy to see me,

and the two of us cried together, and I held him.

[Miss J] I thought back to how we used to do shows together.

I cry because I just miss them so much.

[somber music continues]

[Nigel] You're looking great, J.

[Miss J] Thank you.

This hair though, I'm sick with 'cause it's just so pretty and long.

-I know. -[Jay laughs]

I'm glad we are together

and, um…

-[Nigel] We're glad too, mate. -[Miss J] Mm-hmm.

It's really good to see you, mate.

Yeah, it's really special.

It has been a journey, and you're speaking so much better now.

[Nigel] Yeah.

You are battling through.

When we first saw you in that hospital, you could hardly move, hardly talk.

And now you're sitting up doing an interview, chatting, talking,

-rolling your eyes, making us laugh. -[Jay] Mm-hmm.

[Nigel] It's a long journey, but you're gonna get there.

I know it's been really, really hard, mate.

It's okay.

[Jay] The thing is, you're here though. That's the thing.

[Miss J] I know.

[Nigel] Come on.

Mmm.

[somber music continues]

[Miss J] I miss being the queen of the runway.

The catwalks, of course.

I'm the person who taught models how to walk.

I taught models how to walk. And now I can't walk.

Not yet.

Not yet.

I'm determined to walk.

I'm sure you're gonna see me again, I'm sure.

It's not over for me yet.

[Jay] Do you wanna take a selfie?

Since our last selfie was 2019…

[Nigel] Come on then.

…we gotta do it.

-All right. We're gonna wipe the lens. -You ready?

Oof. Okay.

-[camera clicks] -[music stops]

[producer] Did Tyra come and visit you?

No, not yet.

She just sent me, um, a text.

The, um…

She wants to come and visit me.

But, um… no.

Not yet.

[energetic music playing]

-[reporter] Tyra! How you doing, Tyra? -Thank you.

Hello, Tyra Banks here.

I am a supermodel turned super businesswoman.

After the show, I had so many different ideas for my life.

I'm obsessed with pivoting.

[reporter] The fashion icon has launched a flagship ice cream store in Sydney.

I live in Australia now.

I feel like my work is not done.

You have no idea what we have planned for Cycle 25.

[music ends]

[producer] With everything you went through,

would you ever do Top Model again?

I would say do it at your own risk.

[Joanie] Of course, I'd love to do something like that again,

but not do that again, if you know what I mean.

[Whitney] It didn't age well, but it was also a reflection of the time.

That's exactly how it was.

The only reason the door was open to me was because of Tyra.

[Dani] I do feel like Tyra's intentions in the beginning were good.

But that shit got lost.

[model 1] We were very young girls,

and we were put into a very mature adult world really fast.

That was hard. We were just girls.

[model 2] I had a young person walk up to me yesterday,

and they were like, "Weren't you on that show?"

That's amazing to see how the show has impacted so many people for so long.

So yeah, Tyra Banks very much disappointed me.

But at the end of the day,

we're at a place now where we can say,

"This is not acceptable. Let's do something different."

This has been a long time coming.

I'm re-watching America's Next Top Model.

Hard show to watch in hindsight.

[Zakiya] There was a lot of darkness in Top Model

that makes me look at it differently than I did when I was a kid.

[Tyra] Looking at that show through the lens of today,

it's like, "Ooh. Why did you do that?"

"Hey, Tyra made some shit. She did some shit."

"You know, she said some shit."

And I thank you for that.

That is the only way you change.

That is the only way you get better

is by somebody calling you out on your shit.

It is important.

And I wanna let you know that I want you guys to be just as open as I am now

about getting called on my shit for when somebody calls you out on yours.

Because that day will come.

And continue to evolve.

Because that's what we're all doing.

-[beep] -Girl, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Perfect time to stop.

[energetic pop music playing]

[inaudible]

-Thank you. -[producer] Thank you.

I mean, I can hang out. It's not… like, if you want.

♪ On top Top, top, top model… ♪

[producer] So what have you been up to?

Yeah, I got the keys to the city.

I got the Arkansas keys to the city, girl.

[chuckling]

It's cute.

Here I am now.

I'm a small business owner as well as a Realtor.

Was thinking I was gonna be an actress, which I am and will become,

and there's great roles out there for me. Go ahead, producers, make it work.

I auditioned for a home improvement show, and I got it.

And it changed my life completely.

Started my own business in construction and carpentry,

hung up the heels, grabbed my tool belt.

Did real estate in Manhattan as a rental agent for six or seven years.

Hated it, and then I joined a theater group in New York.

And so I'm back.

[laughing]

Actually ended up buying this really cute little ice cream shop

called The Pink Pelican.

We travel the world and have ice cream. That's my life now.

[producer] You and Tyra have an ice cream shop.

I know. What the fuck? She copied me. Okay? I had the ice cream shop first.

I started working with violent offenders, leading trauma-informed care,

and I love it. It's very hard,

but this is the most fulfilling work that I have done yet.

I take care of animals for a living.

I wanna live on a farm and have, like, a sanctuary for animals.

You know, I've always loved animals.

Dissolving my contract and walking away from the industry

has been the best decision of my life. Getting to know Danielle.

Not Dani, but Danielle.

I just felt like the industry was vain.

I was like, I want purpose. I wanna impact someone's life.

I learned so much about God's grace.

I am now a pose coach, helping develop aspiring models so that they understand,

"Hey, you don't have to be a particular size."

"You don't have to be a particular weight. There's space for you."

"And if there isn't space for you, we're gonna make the space."