All language subtitles for True.Crime.Story.Citizen.Detective.S01E05.Lisa.Coppel.720p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-NTb

[music]

For a long time,
I was very angry.

I'm not a cop.
I'm not a coroner.

I'm not the D.A.,

but I had to actually step into
their role and do their job.

Didn't even want
to look into it.

It's almost as though
she wasn't even a person.

I had no idea what
I was getting into.

And I really went into
this absolutely naive.

It's been a
never-ending saw blade

of witnesses' documents
and searching for answers.

And the truth behind
my mother's murder.

I did what needed to be done.

If I wouldn't have done it,
nobody would have done it.

[music]

This bus has a name.

Her name is Sissy Hankshaw
from the book,

Even Cowgirls Get The Blues.

I love the peace signs that
we get driving down the road.

There are certain things
that make me happy,

keep me light.

Remind me to get out of my head.

Because you have to live life.

My name is Lisa Coppel
and I live in Arvada, Colorado.

My mother was born
Carmina Coppel.

In Oakland, California,
August 14 of 1930

to a well-to-do
family in Berkeley.

My mom was always
searching for love.

And never quite found
the right love.

My mom had several
different marriages,

resulting in a total of
seven of us children.

But eventually
it was just my mom,

my sister, Paula, and myself.

In 1970, Mom moved an

8 foot wide by 24 foot long

mobile home

up to Stratton Park, Colorado.

Where we lived was
very rural, very rustic.

We had no indoor plumbing.
And virtually off grid.

In 1972, Mom noticed a
pickup truck across the field

and spotted a man named Chuck,

Charles Leroy Anderson.

Mom and Chuck had
a whirlwind romance.

And on February 12 of 1973,

they went and got married.

They were only married
nine days, but Chuck was...

A bad influence on Mom.

They drank a lot
during the week, weekends.

It didn't matter.

February 21st of 1973,

Mom and Chuck had been
at the bar drinking,

and they came home pretty drunk.

I laid in my bunk
and listened to them fight.

And I remember him
yelling at her,

"Look at what[bleep]
you made me do,"

and screaming at her, calling
her dirty and nasty names.

Then I went to sleep
because it got quiet.

A little while later,

I'm awakened by one
of the neighbors,

shaking me gently saying,
"Girls, you have to get up.

Something's happened
and you need to get dressed

and we need to go."

I was guided down the hallway

where I had to
step over a sheet.

That was my mom's legs.

I knew what death was, but

I didn't quite register

the darkness that
I'd just experienced.

We were put into an
emergency vehicle, an ambulance.

I was 10 years old,

so I couldn't really process
what was going on.

I'm up in-between
the driver and Chuck

asking "What happened to my mom?
What happened to my mom?

Will somebody tell me
what happened to my mom?"

And they wouldn't answer me.

I overheard them call in that
there was a 42-year-old woman,

Caucasian, with a gunshot
wound to her head.

Chuck had suffered a
bullet wound to his hand.

Chuck's explanation of what
happened was they were showing

the gun to each other.
And my mother, she got startled

and flipped it in the air
and caught it with her thumb.

And it just went off
in her forehead.

When we got to the hospital,
we're unloaded

and Chuck is taken
into an emergency area.

And my sister Paula and I
were set on a gurney

and told to be
big girls about this.

They said, "Your mom has died."

And asked if we had any
living relatives around

that we could contact.

Chuck and I didn't speak
until the funeral.

And he insisted that
he didn't kill my mom.

It was just an accident.

But I couldn't stop thinking
about all of the nasty things

that I heard him say. It left
a lot of doubt and questions.

I remember not being happy
with certain answers

that I was given.

Even though the 10-year-old Lisa
saw and knew what she knew,

the police didn't
really talk to me.

[music]

My mom's death was
ruled an accident.

And it was case closed.

My mom's belongings
were put into probate,

along with the livestock
from our land.

Apparently, Chuck was the one
who bought my horses.

We became orphans
and wards of the court.

My sister and I both were
in the foster care system,

going through foster homes.

It was a very hard transition.

And that's how we started
the next part of our lives.

[Renee]
I remember people used to say,

"Why do you hang out with her?

She gets so crazy and angry."

And I said, "Well, she
has a reason to be angry.

Imagine if your life was
the way that hers was."

Foster homes and group homes,
and being flipped around

to here to there.

And sleeping in your car,
sleeping in the park.

I remember when you
started looking--

Looking for your family.

[music]

[Lisa] In 1994, I was trying
to find family.

I wanted to know
where I came from.

And I made contact
with the father

listed on my birth certificate.

And he wrote me a 15-page letter

telling me the details of

his relationship with my mom.

At the end of
his 15-page letter,

he had written something
to the effect of,

"Am I sure that my mom died
the way I think she did?"

And I started questioning,
do I really know?

I remembered being asleep in the
bed with the covers over my head

and listening to them argue
and them fight.

I don't recall all
of the details of

what happened that night,

but I do remember Chuck
screaming at Mom,

telling her, "See what
you [bleep] made me do?"

"Look what you made me do!"

Calling her a bitch.

I wanted to find out what
the police report had to say

about how my mom died.

I'm not a trained detective.
I'm not a P.I. by trade,

but I'm kind of like a pit bull.

Once I get on it
and I latch onto it,

I'll hang on until
the bitter end--

True.

And I find all of
what I'm after.

[music]

The end of his 15-page letter
sparked something in me.

I needed to find out the truth
to what happened to my mom.

I started by getting
the police report.

It was a three-inch thick
file with tape on it.

Red tape.
Case-closed tape.

And they cut the tape
right there in front of me.

And took the police report out.
And they made me my copies.

I had to take several days to
read it through the first time,

to start making notes.

So this is the first version
that Chuck gave

regarding how my mom died.

How does this make sense
to an officer,

somebody that knows firearms?
It doesn't make sense.

In the police report there
were three versions

of what Chuck told the police.

In the first one, she was drunk,
so he had to take the gun away

from her and he had grabbed
the barrel of the gun.

And the gun went
off accidentally.

In the second version, she got
startled and dropped the gun

and it just went off from
the floor to her forehead.

And then the third explanation
was that he had to go to the

bathroom and went outside.
And when he came back in,

she was posed with
the gun in her hand.

And Chuck alluded to my mother
committing suicide.

I was at my wit's end and

felt I had no direction to go.

It disgusted me to know
that Chuck was living his

best life in the bars
with no accountability.

I tried to block it out, but
Fort Collins was a small town.

There were a couple of times
where our paths would cross,

and I chose to look
the other way.

I chose a different avenue.

I thought maybe
I should go ahead

and do some
actual investigation.

And so I began
contacting people.

I broke down a list of

witnesses, sheriffs, DAs.

And I set forth to contact
almost everybody on those lists.

I started with the coroners.

One of the people I contacted
was Dr. Agura.

And he was very engaging

and said he remembered
my mom's case.

He said that he remembered

having to do a second autopsy
on my mom.

There was disagreement
on the angle of the gun

and whether or not it was her
hand on the gun

at the time it was fired.

And he said the second autopsy

was a considerable difference in
opinion from the first autopsy.

The angle of the first autopsy
was not even plausible with

Charlie's versions of the story.

He was adamant that the
first one had been botched.

But a panel of six professionals
decided that the differences

in angles wasn't something that
needed additional investigation.

They were going to rule
mom's death as an accident.

Case closed and they thought
everything was done

until I came around
asking questions.

I wanted to know what was
in that second autopsy.

So I called the coroner's office

and I asked for them to take a
look at this file again.

They couldn't even
find the file.

There was nothing.

It was referenced to
a miscellaneous file.

But the file was empty.

And had been for years.

And it felt like they just
covered it up.

There was no headway there.

After the coroner's office,
I stopped at Old Chicago

and thought, you know,
I'm gonna have a drink

and it's a bartender's job
to listen to my woes.

[laughs]

I was just pissed. You know,
I left the coroner's office,

and they don't show
any records, you know?

"Oh, well, we don't have any.
We don't even show we--

We did this case."

My name is Dianne Fairman.
In 1995, I was bartending.

And Lisa came into the bar
and sat down

kind of at the end of the bar,
and just seemed

a little distraught and upset.

I began to tell her a brief
rundown of my mom's homicide.

I needed to find the
truth and the answers.

Sometimes people come into bars
and they have tall tales.

There was just
something about you.

I just listened and got more
and more intrigued.

And then when you said
it was all in Larimer County,

I'm like, "Oh."

[laughing]

I said, "Well, strangely enough,
I just happen to know the person

you need to talk to
because I'm interning

at the coroner's office
in Larimer County."

[Lisa] Here I am looking to get
some questions answered,

and here she's an intern
at the coroner's office.

I couldn't believe it.
Look at it how you will.

I have no doubt that Mom
sent me to Old Chicago that day.

I went back and I just said,

"Her story sounds very plausible.

And I don't see,
even as an intern,

that this case doesn't
deserve a second look.

It just doesn't sound like it
could have happened,

you know, the way
they're saying it happened."

I realized who she
needed to talk to.

It would be the chief deputy
coroner of Larimer County.

When I went back to the office,
I told him that I had met

this woman, and she seemed
very compelling and very honest.

And had some interesting
facts to tell him,

and that he needed to
listen to her. And he did.

The Larimer County
coroner called me back

and said that they
found the documents,

which included
the second autopsy.

I was hoping maybe the
second autopsy

would have the truth
and the answers.

Lo and behold,
it changed everything.

[music]

[Lisa] Once they found
the second autopsy,

I made contact
with Fred Rosenberg.

Fred Rosenberg
was an investigator

for the Larimer County
Coroner's Office.

He compared both autopsies

and did a skull diagram
showing the bullet path.

Fred said that the
first autopsy

wasn't as accurate
as Dr. Agura's.

It left a lot of
doubt and questions.

Fred wanted to go over this with
me and asked if I could come in.

So I went to Fred Rosenberg's
office...

Where he gave me
copies of all notes,

all reports,
all of the photos.

He went through
all of them with me.

It was very difficult initially,

to view the death pictures.

I was saddened that that's now

how I'm gonna remember her.

But I needed to step out
of the 10-year-old Lisa

and step into the
investigator Lisa.

It's all the same person,

but it's two completely
different roles.

That's the only way
I've gotten through this.

[music]

Fred took the paperwork
and all of his sketches

and his analysis,
and he took it to Dr. Allen,

who was the chief medical
examiner at the time.

Dr. Allen looked at it and
agreed wholeheartedly with Fred

that this could not have
happened the way

the first autopsy
says it happened.

That it definitely was an investigation

that needed new ballistics.

The chief coroner reviewed
all of the documents that

Fred had showed me. However,
they did not have the gun

because the sheriff's office
purged evidence

from their evidence room
in 1978.

Back then,
the case wasn't a homicide,

so they sold the gun
in a big gun auction.

So I set out to find
a similar gun.

I wanted to know the
length of the barrel,

the length of the handle
with the cylinder,

and how big the gun was.

I had gone to local
pawnshops and traced

an H&R single action
...22 revolver.

And this is what I got.

I had to disprove all of
Chuck Anderson's stories.

In the beginning,
Chuck was saying that

the gun went off accidentally.

Well, the angle of entry
in that second autopsy was

above her ear and kind of
to the back of her head,

which couldn't have happened
unless the gun was behind her.

So I looked in the mirror
and I held the paper gun up.

And I'm like, there's no way her
hand could have been on the gun

with a six-inch barrel.

Her wrist would
have been broken.

The angle disproved
almost all of his versions.

The gun falling to the floor

or him taking the gun away
from her by the barrel.

And it wasn't suicide.

Her hand could not
have been on the gun

at the time it was fired. Period.

I went in and role played
to prove that Mom's hand

could not have been on the gun
at that angle. It couldn't be.

I showed Dr. Allen
and he agreed with me.

Her hand could not
have been on the gun

without her hand
being contorted.

[Dianne] Fred and Dr. Allen
and Lisa had, I think,

several meetings. And Dr. Allen
ultimately had enough evidence

in front of him that
he was able to say,

"This isn't an accident."

[Lisa] Within a couple of days,
Patrick Allen had signed

the death certificate to
read suspicious for homicide,

which is huge, huge, huge.

Nobody gets the death
certificate changed.

It's terribly hard to get
a death certificate changed.

Finally, there's acknowledgment
that I'm not the only one

who believes that he killed her.

And it's in writing.

It's official.

What a feat.

What a feat.

Now, is the sheriff's office

gonna work on
opening the investigation?

[music]

[Lisa] When the coroner
signed the death certificate,

I'm thinking, all right. They'll
reopen the investigation.

It'll go to trial,
and then I'll have justice.

And there'll be
justice for my mother.

Absolutely, I thought that they
would see what the coroner saw.

But they didn't.

When I spoke to the
sheriff's investigator,

he told me that he had
interviewed Chuck Anderson

recently and that he believed
Chuck's explanation

in the original police report.

And he told me the case
was going to be open,

but inactive until
there's new evidence.

He wasn't going to
work the file anymore.

Another brick wall.

I couldn't come in
and do it for them,

but I could get some
more answers on my end.

I continued to talk to people.

[music]

I was up near Horsetooth.

And I stopped to buy a lighter.

And I go in.

And who's standing next to me,
but Chuck,

counting pennies for
a pack of cigarettes.

I hadn't seen him.

Didn't want to.

But there he was ruining my day.

He didn't see me.

So I got my lighter,
and I got in my little minivan,

and I sat in the parking lot
and I shook.

Oh, my God, did I shake.

Do I [bleep] run him over?

What do I do?
Do I follow him?

What do I do?

I watched him go into a bar.

And so I walked in.
I walked right up to him.

And then he announces to the bar
that I'm his long lost daughter.

Haven't seen me for years.
And this and this.

And I said, "There is an empty
table back there. You and I,

back there now." And he came
and sat down with me.

I listened to his story
of where he put my mom's ashes.

And I knew it was a lie because
Chuck bragged at the bars

that he took my mom's ashes and
threw them into a garbage pit

next to his pigpen.

Eventually, I told Chuck

I wanted something
of my mother's, anything.

And so we went
back to his house.

It was chilling.

But I know he's not
going to kill me.

I'm too friggin' mean.

We sat down and he opened
his little file drawer,

and pulled out the deed
to Mom's land.

He held on to it
like a frickin' trophy.

Of course, it had been sold in
probate. You know, no value

other than that was a piece of
paper that was in her purse.

And I got it back.

And he didn't get
to keep the trophy.

After seeing the deed to the
land, I started questioning

if Chuck's motive was
a monetary value.

I don't know. Maybe he wanted
to try and get her livestock,

her land, and it was
all about the money

because they weren't
together for love.

That's for sure.

Several people had made
mention that Chuck

wanted to take a life insurance
policy out on her,

which started the
big fight in the bar

because he wanted to be
the beneficiary.

And Mom wanted Paula
and I to be the beneficiary.

They were only
married nine days,

so she really got uncomfortable

and really regretted
marrying him.

And really wanted out,
and wanted him to go away.

But he would not go.

I had Chuck Anderson's motive,
but it felt like

it didn't matter.
We can never hit the D.A.

if the police don't do
their portion. That's it.

That's as far as we go.

I'm questioning will we
ever see whatever justice is.

Chuck Anderson took
everything from me

and took everything
from my sister, Paula.

All the things that Paula
endured in her years of

placement and my mom's death,

it even went as far as
Paula committing suicide.

She was a very troubled person
and saw no other way out.

I will always think Chuck's
responsible for that.

In 2001, I was working
for a gun scope company

and somebody made mention
that they had seen an article

written about my mom's death.

And in it they too,
alluded to suicide.

And that was one
of my biggest peeves.

So I called the
Longmont Daily Times,

and I asked for them
to do a retraction.

And I wait seven months
before I just had, had it.

And I went in to the
Longmont Daily Times,

and I ran into DeeDee Correll.

There are certain details
that I do remember very well.

Like you storming into the paper
wanting to--

For me, it was...

I'm dialing direct.

It's not uncommon for a
newspaper to get

people coming in who are
unhappy with something.

And sometimes there is
not much to their claims.

And in this case,
Lisa was fired up,

but she also had all the
documentation to support

her grievance that the
word suicide had been used.

I don't mind you doing
an article on my mom.

Just make it factual.

Because if I die, somebody is
gonna look at this and say,

-"It was suicide."
- I would feel the same way.

[DeeDee] I went through
all the reports

and corrected some mistakes
made in the coverage.

And actually in looking
back at my notes,

I noticed there were a number
of contradictions in

Charles Anderson's statements
against what I knew

was in the police reports.

The story would not be
complete without his version.

We had to make the effort
to try to talk to him.

I remember you were
gonna go up there.

I said,
"Don't go out there alone."

[DeeDee] I didn't have anyone
available at the paper

that day to go with me,
so I got my dad to go with me.

When I arrived, we had some
concerns about Mr. Anderson.

He had stickers on the
outside of his door,

making sure that everyone knew
that he had weapons inside,

but we had to make the effort.

Mr. Anderson was drinking a beer
and watching a show on TV.

I think it was the Golden Girls.

He invited me in.
He was friendly.

And he seemed willing to talk.
And so I started off

by asking him just some
questions about the case.

Immediately, he began to say
things that contradicted

what was in the police reports.

And finally, at some point
just said, "What happened?

How did she die?
How did she get shot?"

And that was where he looked up.
He looked at me and he said,

"Well, she didn't
shoot herself."

[music]

I remember you calling me back,

"Lisa, you'll never believe it.
He said that her hand

wasn't on the gun
at the time it was fired

and that she
didn't shoot herself."

It was very chilling to me.
It was just very direct.

What he was saying to me
was that he had shot her.

It was, to me,
a stunning admission.

As soon as I left, I called up
the sheriff's office and I said,

"Listen, here's what he said to
me. And what's your comment?"

And the lieutenant said,
"Well, I'm not gonna tell you my

comment based on what you just
said. I'm reopening the case."

[Andy] It's not appropriate
for me to, to judge

maybe what wasn't done
in the past.

I wasn't around in 1973
as far as police work.

But in the 2000s
when it came up again

with DeeDee Carroll
from the Longmont Times call.

I was surprised and maybe
a little skeptical at first,

you know.

Okay, this is the media
calling to tell me something.

I was intrigued by
what DeeDee had to say

because he was making
a statement

he had never made before.
And that changed everything.

Here's the evidence to explain
the inconsistencies

with the story that Nina had
pulled the trigger herself,

that seemed at the time
that he was a bit brazen.

And he'd gotten away with it
all these years.

He bragged in the bars
all these years,

but nobody ever--

- Came forward.
- Reported it.

Right, right.

We had information that might
finally make a difference.

So we were able to put an
investigation together.

And I assigned the case to
Investigator Robert Coleman.

And he began to look at the
case again with fresh eyes.

My hopes were very high
that Bob Coleman was

gonna be able to do this.

So I met with him and I got his
file back up to speed.

And I was really for
the first time in years

feeling that
I would get justice.

Robert Coleman was
pretty renowned as a

very good interviewer.

He was the best
interviewer we had.

So the key in this case was

for Investigator Coleman
to bring

Chuck Anderson into the office,
into an interview room

that we could control...

To prove that his story,
his narrative wasn't right.

[Andy] Because this case had
so many different versions,

it was important to start broad

and narrow down to those facts
that were disputed.

And ultimately the fact of who
had their finger on the trigger.

In the course of the interview,
there is a point where

Undersheriff Hudson explained
it couldn't have occurred

in the ways that you had
described in the past.

And here's the evidence,
and here's the evidence.

[Lisa] The detectives told me
that Bob Coleman

had spent five hours
interviewing Chuck Anderson.

They had put up a whiteboard
outside the room,

and every time they got him
to disprove

a version of one of his stories.

[Lisa] They would go outside and
check it off the whiteboard.

[Andy] There is only one truth, clearly.

And that made the ultimate
difference in this case.

There is only one truth,
and he had to come to it.

Leading him to a point where he
quietly says, "You're right."

He finally admitted
that he shot Nina.

[music]

[Lisa] Chuck Anderson
had spent years

lying about what he had done,

but I felt for
the first time, vindicated.

It was actually the 30th
anniversary of my mom's murder.

The DA's office said that
they had enough

to go forward
with an arrest warrant.

And I never thought
I'd see that.

[music]

[Lisa] I remember the detectives
called me to let me know that

right now, as we are speaking,
they're placing the handcuffs

on Charles Anderson
for the murder of my mother.

I could hear the sound
of the cuffs clicking

and I cannot tell you
how elated that made me.

He didn't get away with it.

And that was the
most beautiful thing.

After all those years, it was
actually gonna make it to court.

We went into court and Chuck
actually had three lawyers

that went into court with him.

I knew that he would fight
to get it dismissed.

And I just want him to
spend some time in jail.

[Andy] It was almost like this
was the last shot

at a successful conclusion.

But I knew we had evidence
that he couldn't run away from.

Justice needed to be
served regardless of

the time that had gone by.

[Lisa] I'm feeling that this
is really gonna go somewhere.

And the next day the
whole bottom drops out.

I got a call from the
district attorney's office

saying that they were going
to offer him a plea bargain.

They charged him with
second-degree murder.

And they were going to allow him
plea bargain to manslaughter.

The law's applicable in '73

were not the same as in 2003.

So they had to use the laws
that were applicable in 1973,

which gave a lot more
good time credit.

They were less restrictive
in the sentencing.

And they were telling me that
they were going to offer him

a one-year sentence.

[Andy] Because the case
was now decades old for the

district attorney's office.
They didn't have what you need

to get a good, strong
long sentence.

Then they just end up settling
for what you can get.

[Lisa] There was a possibility
that it would be thrown out of

court and we would have never
been able to take it back.

So I had to be thankful
for what I got.

It sickened me.

But it's what we had.

I think in the end I wanted
him to say he was guilty.

I wanted him for the first
[bleep] time in his life

to own that he killed my mom
in an open courtroom

to the judge and me
in the courtroom.

August 14th was
my mom's birthday.

The next day, we went in the
courtroom for his sentencing,

where Chuck was
supposed to say guilty,

in order to get the
one-year sentence.

But he stood there
and he said, "Nolo contendere."

I couldn't believe it.

Nolo contendere
means no contest.

And everybody in the
courtroom gasped.

The judge said,
"I'm gonna take that plea

as a guilty plea based
on the agreement that

you reached with the
district attorney's office."

But it was just insulting.

With time served while we
were waiting to go to court,

by the time they
actually got him down to

Four Mile Correctional Facility,

he only spent
five weeks imprisoned.

After Chuck got out of prison,
the people in his hometown

didn't want him around.

He had difficulties finding
people that accepted him.

And a few years ago, he died.

And it was a relief to know that
Chuck's no longer on the streets

and he can no longer
hurt anybody.

[Andy] Quite frankly,
you presenting your evidence

to them the way you
did was a key component.

You were the driver
all that time.

You're a hell of
an investigator.

Thank you.

You're a hell of
an investigator.

You were my ally.

I am so glad to hear that.
Thank you.

I dislike the word closure

because there's so many open
wounds. There is answers.

There is time that passes
that helps make things

a little easier.

But there's no closure.

There's still the
gaping hole of missing

the person that you loved.

It never changes.
It doesn't go away.

I am--I'm glad that
I got done what I got done.

It's huge, really.

It's monumental.

I had the truth on my side.

I had my mom on my side.

I felt she was there.

And I got to say
what she couldn't say.

It was the gift
that I could give her.

And I believe that
she watched it all.

And I know she's proud of me.

Which makes the 10-year-old Lisa

happy to know...

Mom's proud.

[music]

[music]

There is something
excruciatingly terrifying

about 50 victims.

On the season finale of

"True Crime Story:
Citizen Detective"...

We have this killer
and at least eight victims

who have never been identified.

Families don't know what
happened to their loved ones.

Nothing's going to stop me
from further investigating.

Maybe I can find something
the FBI couldn't.

"True Crime Story:
Citizen Detective."

♪