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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,923 --> 00:00:08,341 The things he did to those kids, 2 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:11,094 he's confessed to it twice now. 3 00:00:11,469 --> 00:00:14,115 There is also the matter of my co-counsel. 4 00:00:14,139 --> 00:00:15,825 We're gonna need a real nuts-and-bolts guy 5 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:18,536 to keep shoveling off the shit kunkle throws our way. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,788 There is a petition to remand my client 7 00:00:20,812 --> 00:00:23,791 to the psychiatric hospices of cermak hospital. 8 00:00:23,815 --> 00:00:26,460 All we ask is that he be held in emergency custody 9 00:00:26,484 --> 00:00:28,403 for psychiatric evaluation. 10 00:00:29,154 --> 00:00:30,381 The court agrees. 11 00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:38,597 I told cops, you did nothing! 12 00:00:38,621 --> 00:00:40,206 Where is he? 13 00:00:40,415 --> 00:00:41,583 Where is my boy? 14 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:44,562 Parents reported the boys missing. 15 00:00:44,586 --> 00:00:46,272 Cpd kept doing nothing. 16 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,732 Medical and dental records 17 00:00:47,756 --> 00:00:51,235 will be required to identify the deceased. 18 00:00:51,259 --> 00:00:55,573 They dumped some of them, off the side. Right here. 19 00:00:55,597 --> 00:00:57,700 Goddamn fairies. 20 00:00:57,724 --> 00:00:59,809 Faggots brought it on themselves. 21 00:01:00,101 --> 00:01:01,746 He wasn't like that. 22 00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:03,831 Not like what they're saying like those other boys. 23 00:01:03,855 --> 00:01:05,291 He wasn't like that. 24 00:01:05,315 --> 00:01:08,193 He was... he was better than what they're saying! 25 00:01:52,195 --> 00:01:58,159 - I can do this. I, I can... - I have to. Thank you. 26 00:01:59,911 --> 00:02:01,162 You don't. 27 00:02:06,334 --> 00:02:07,836 These are the x-rays. 28 00:02:08,503 --> 00:02:11,840 One shows that root canal he had that year. 29 00:02:13,675 --> 00:02:14,902 His infection. 30 00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:16,988 The other's for the gold crown. 31 00:02:17,012 --> 00:02:19,657 I have earlier images, but I... 32 00:02:19,681 --> 00:02:21,433 I don't think they'll need them. 33 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,399 Molds I took of his teeth. 34 00:02:30,984 --> 00:02:33,695 I made models, a couple of years ago. 35 00:02:34,529 --> 00:02:36,364 In, in case... 36 00:02:36,698 --> 00:02:38,533 well, after he disappeared. 37 00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:42,412 In case... 38 00:03:31,419 --> 00:03:33,713 No. No, no, no, no. 39 00:03:34,089 --> 00:03:35,548 No, no, no. 40 00:03:36,466 --> 00:03:40,261 No. No. No, no, no. 41 00:04:02,617 --> 00:04:06,597 This case is gonna be built by digging through case law. 42 00:04:06,621 --> 00:04:08,474 It's actually extremely exciting. 43 00:04:08,498 --> 00:04:09,791 Fucking tedious. 44 00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:14,004 All right. Be straight with me. 45 00:04:15,005 --> 00:04:17,424 What did gacy confess to police? 46 00:04:18,842 --> 00:04:21,445 All of it. All the murders. 47 00:04:21,469 --> 00:04:22,470 Thirty-two of 'em. 48 00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:23,990 If it's even the right number. 49 00:04:24,014 --> 00:04:25,515 How the hell'd you let that happen? 50 00:04:26,349 --> 00:04:27,600 My team meet him. 51 00:04:31,146 --> 00:04:32,873 You get a copy of the confession from police? 52 00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:34,315 Did gacy sign it? 53 00:04:34,607 --> 00:04:36,627 Nope. Nothing to sign, Bob. 54 00:04:36,651 --> 00:04:38,921 Police didn't have him write it down or record it. 55 00:04:38,945 --> 00:04:41,549 He just kept talking like a fucking looney tune. 56 00:04:41,573 --> 00:04:43,134 Des plaines just jotted down notes. 57 00:04:43,158 --> 00:04:44,576 Hang on a minute. 58 00:04:45,410 --> 00:04:47,871 You're saying all I got is some notes? 59 00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:54,044 Confession didn't happen. 60 00:04:54,336 --> 00:04:55,813 They could've said whatever they wanted. 61 00:04:55,837 --> 00:04:57,106 - Holy shit. - When they got... 62 00:04:57,130 --> 00:04:59,025 they got nothing to prove gacy said anything. 63 00:04:59,049 --> 00:05:00,901 Plus, you said he was distressed. 64 00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:03,612 You said taking pills, he's drinking heavily 65 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,741 could be improper exertion of influence. 66 00:05:06,765 --> 00:05:09,035 Right now, all they got evidence of 67 00:05:09,059 --> 00:05:12,020 is that gacy was illegally operating a graveyard. 68 00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:16,917 I mean, we still gotta build up a defense. 69 00:05:16,941 --> 00:05:18,127 Insanity is the way to go. 70 00:05:18,151 --> 00:05:19,503 No other way. 71 00:05:19,527 --> 00:05:21,088 I mean, look. The good news is 72 00:05:21,112 --> 00:05:22,965 half the shrinks in the country are begging for a crack at him. 73 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:25,658 He's like the fucking Mona Lisa to these people. 74 00:05:26,368 --> 00:05:28,179 Prosecution's entitled to run their own tests 75 00:05:28,203 --> 00:05:29,305 with their own professionals, 76 00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:30,849 but I think we worry about that later. 77 00:05:33,708 --> 00:05:34,918 I mean, 78 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,564 there isn't a world where he's anything 79 00:05:38,588 --> 00:05:40,423 but fucking crazy, right? 80 00:05:43,677 --> 00:05:47,156 Gacy. G-a-c-y. 81 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:51,452 Any reports on his sentencing, incarceration, 82 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:53,436 and his release from anamosa state? 83 00:05:53,687 --> 00:05:54,830 Yes. Thank you. 84 00:05:54,854 --> 00:05:57,482 Fax it over as soon as possible. Thank you. 85 00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:05,633 Appreciate your time, frank. 86 00:06:05,657 --> 00:06:08,469 Yeah. Helluva way to start your tenure as chief of detectives. 87 00:06:08,493 --> 00:06:11,430 They're, calling it the "crime of a century." 88 00:06:12,789 --> 00:06:16,185 - Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know? - Yeah. I do. 89 00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:17,561 So how can I help? 90 00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:21,065 Our investigation recovered gacy's company payroll. 91 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:23,192 And detective tovar here 92 00:06:23,216 --> 00:06:25,903 was looking into some of the employees listed. 93 00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:29,573 A few of them were reported missing to your division 94 00:06:29,597 --> 00:06:30,783 around the same time. 95 00:06:30,807 --> 00:06:32,868 We're hoping to get some clarification on 96 00:06:32,892 --> 00:06:37,814 what was known about gacy and when it was known by cpd. 97 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,751 God, I think it's fair to say nothing was on here, Joe. 98 00:06:40,775 --> 00:06:42,628 Otherwise, we'd intervened. 99 00:06:42,652 --> 00:06:46,573 I'm sorry. You guys dropped the ball. 100 00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:51,178 You know that. We know that. Let's just... 101 00:06:51,202 --> 00:06:53,681 let's just get this straight here. It's our ass, too. 102 00:06:53,705 --> 00:06:55,891 We're not trying to pin anything on Chicago... 103 00:06:55,915 --> 00:06:57,167 It sounds like it. 104 00:06:57,417 --> 00:06:59,145 Help us understand this. 105 00:06:59,169 --> 00:07:02,690 A man convicted of sodomizing a teen boy 106 00:07:02,714 --> 00:07:04,799 is paroled early to Chicago. 107 00:07:05,133 --> 00:07:07,153 And then his teenage, male employees 108 00:07:07,177 --> 00:07:08,988 start disappearing from the area. 109 00:07:09,012 --> 00:07:11,139 And nobody in your department looks into the guy? 110 00:07:11,806 --> 00:07:14,035 Nobody taps our officers, lets us know 111 00:07:14,059 --> 00:07:15,995 there might be somebody in our neighborhood hurting kids? 112 00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:19,814 The families, they're gonna want an explanation. 113 00:07:20,607 --> 00:07:22,251 And what we are trying to say is that 114 00:07:22,275 --> 00:07:25,028 we are more than willing to be the first line of defense 115 00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,198 if you can help us fill in these gaps. 116 00:07:30,533 --> 00:07:31,969 You, you know 117 00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:34,722 we don't treat every missing kid as a homicide, right? 118 00:07:34,746 --> 00:07:36,664 Teenagers, especially. 119 00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:41,812 Last year in Chicago, 19,000 kids go missing, 18,000 return, 120 00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:44,315 and blow off a little steam, they come home. 121 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:45,858 Except the thousand who don't. 122 00:07:45,882 --> 00:07:49,052 - The szyc kid, I understand. - There's no direct link to gacy. 123 00:07:50,178 --> 00:07:51,906 Then you have butkovich's father, 124 00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:53,991 and then the parents of the other missing employee... 125 00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:55,660 Yeah. Greg godzik. 126 00:07:55,684 --> 00:07:56,827 Yeah, we looked into it. 127 00:07:56,851 --> 00:07:58,537 Both families. 128 00:07:58,561 --> 00:07:59,997 We have both families 129 00:08:00,021 --> 00:08:03,858 saying that they were calling cpd, nonstop. 130 00:08:04,067 --> 00:08:05,169 Mentioning gacy. 131 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,904 Yeah. I... I've read the reports, Joe. 132 00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:11,801 We visited gacy, yeah. Looked into him. 133 00:08:11,825 --> 00:08:12,718 Sometimes. 134 00:08:12,742 --> 00:08:15,161 But these weren't kids. 135 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:17,014 They're teenagers. 136 00:08:17,038 --> 00:08:18,974 And no known violence had occurred. 137 00:08:18,998 --> 00:08:21,310 No record of foul play. 138 00:08:21,334 --> 00:08:23,020 - No reason... - We were told... 139 00:08:23,044 --> 00:08:25,022 to request gacy's record whatsoever. 140 00:08:25,046 --> 00:08:27,817 We were told by both families that they were adamant to cpd 141 00:08:27,841 --> 00:08:29,634 that gacy has something to do with it. 142 00:08:30,385 --> 00:08:32,029 Nobody thought the two missing persons 143 00:08:32,053 --> 00:08:33,763 linked to the same man was odd? 144 00:08:34,097 --> 00:08:36,099 It was just chalked up to coincidence. 145 00:08:39,602 --> 00:08:42,081 This isn't des plaines. It's Chicago. 146 00:08:42,105 --> 00:08:43,606 It's a fucking sprawl. 147 00:08:43,898 --> 00:08:47,777 Butkovich was from police area six, north side. 148 00:08:48,236 --> 00:08:51,215 The godziks are from area five, northwest side. 149 00:08:51,239 --> 00:08:55,761 So you got Marko butkovich calling area six about his son. 150 00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:58,264 You got the godziks calling area five about theirs. 151 00:08:58,288 --> 00:09:00,891 Sure. Both reports mentioned a man named gacy, 152 00:09:00,915 --> 00:09:02,727 but how are two different officers 153 00:09:02,751 --> 00:09:06,147 in two different locations supposed to know that? 154 00:09:06,171 --> 00:09:08,649 When I was at vice, we shared whatever information we had. 155 00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:11,593 Vice? Yeah. That's why you're such a fucking asshole. 156 00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:13,988 Vice is where we sent cowboys and mutts 157 00:09:14,012 --> 00:09:15,305 who can't be fucking muzzled. 158 00:09:17,932 --> 00:09:19,201 You know, part of being a leader 159 00:09:19,225 --> 00:09:21,102 is controlling your subordinate, Joe. 160 00:09:27,817 --> 00:09:30,004 I'm sitting on potentially dozens of bodies 161 00:09:30,028 --> 00:09:31,780 that need to be identified, 162 00:09:33,114 --> 00:09:34,783 and I've run out of road. 163 00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:38,929 Files on every missing kid that fits gacy's m.O., 164 00:09:38,953 --> 00:09:40,306 that would be a great help. 165 00:09:40,330 --> 00:09:42,832 Plus, anything you have on gacy himself. 166 00:09:43,041 --> 00:09:44,769 Well, there's a system. 167 00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:46,771 Lotta paperwork, gonna take some time. 168 00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:50,191 Weeks, months... I understand the system. 169 00:09:50,215 --> 00:09:53,635 I would consider it a favor for whatever that is worth. 170 00:09:53,843 --> 00:09:55,905 Ship all the files for every missing kid 171 00:09:55,929 --> 00:09:58,115 from 1970 to now over to des plaines. 172 00:09:58,139 --> 00:09:59,391 Well, you got it. 173 00:10:01,309 --> 00:10:06,648 But you'll see, most of these kids are just troubled. 174 00:10:31,214 --> 00:10:32,733 Where are you two headed? 175 00:11:10,503 --> 00:11:12,356 You don't wanna rent some skates? 176 00:11:12,380 --> 00:11:13,524 Come out here? 177 00:11:13,548 --> 00:11:15,258 Don't have enough cash. 178 00:11:17,052 --> 00:11:18,219 It's Billy, right? 179 00:11:20,221 --> 00:11:21,890 You got a fancy car, too? 180 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,434 No. 181 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,039 How can you afford to fill that thing up with gas 182 00:11:28,063 --> 00:11:29,373 if you can't afford to skate? 183 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:31,083 Maybe that's why I can't afford to, honey. 184 00:11:31,107 --> 00:11:32,150 You think of that? 185 00:11:32,901 --> 00:11:34,837 I'm sorry. Danny has a sharp tongue, 186 00:11:34,861 --> 00:11:36,380 and he thinks it's a gift. 187 00:11:42,327 --> 00:11:43,745 What's your gift? 188 00:11:44,454 --> 00:11:47,165 Outrunning cops. 189 00:11:50,043 --> 00:11:51,145 Can I come with you? 190 00:11:53,546 --> 00:11:54,546 Please? 191 00:11:58,134 --> 00:11:59,278 You from Chicago? 192 00:11:59,302 --> 00:12:03,240 Yeah. But, my family, we lived away for a while, 193 00:12:03,264 --> 00:12:06,101 but I missed the city, so I came back. 194 00:12:08,186 --> 00:12:10,039 What was that your friend was saying? 195 00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:11,106 About you and cops? 196 00:12:16,152 --> 00:12:17,546 Who'd you steal that car from? 197 00:12:24,119 --> 00:12:26,263 If I tell you, will you go to dinner with me? 198 00:12:36,131 --> 00:12:38,008 I'm happy to have you on the team. 199 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:41,278 That's a helluva 'stache you got on you. 200 00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:42,446 You do somethin' with it? 201 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:44,305 Put somethin' in it to make it so full? 202 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:46,951 Soap and water. 203 00:12:46,975 --> 00:12:48,911 Hah. Good on you. 204 00:12:48,935 --> 00:12:50,562 All right. Here she is. 205 00:12:51,479 --> 00:12:54,959 Lot of very accomplished, intelligent psychiatrists 206 00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:56,419 wanted to meet with you, John. 207 00:12:56,443 --> 00:12:58,278 Fought for it even. 208 00:12:58,653 --> 00:13:02,466 Dr. Deborah Healy is the best out of California. 209 00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:04,969 Flew out here just to see you. 210 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,163 All right then. 211 00:13:09,164 --> 00:13:10,850 You're the lucky winner. 212 00:13:10,874 --> 00:13:12,250 Step right up, head-shrinker. 213 00:13:12,542 --> 00:13:14,085 It's good to meet you. 214 00:13:17,047 --> 00:13:19,007 I'm not being rude. Just... 215 00:13:19,215 --> 00:13:21,235 You're not gonna try anything, are you? 216 00:13:21,259 --> 00:13:24,971 I've always had a thing for blondes. 217 00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:27,182 I suppose that's a no then. 218 00:13:35,565 --> 00:13:36,566 There you go. 219 00:13:41,154 --> 00:13:42,506 That's better. 220 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:44,050 Before Bob and I go, 221 00:13:44,074 --> 00:13:47,136 we just wanna make sure that you understand the prosecution 222 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,556 will make use of this evaluation. Okay? 223 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:54,477 Everything you say will be on the record. 224 00:13:54,501 --> 00:13:55,936 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 225 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,545 I'm happy to talk to whoever, 226 00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:00,566 get the story straight, you know? 227 00:14:00,590 --> 00:14:02,425 Put the blame where it belongs. 228 00:14:05,053 --> 00:14:07,931 All right. Have fun. 229 00:14:16,731 --> 00:14:18,233 So, 230 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,445 what do you want to know? 231 00:14:29,494 --> 00:14:31,389 A good childhood then. 232 00:14:31,413 --> 00:14:34,475 I loved my father. And he loved me. 233 00:14:34,499 --> 00:14:36,251 He was just from the old-school. 234 00:14:36,584 --> 00:14:39,087 A strong man. Strong views. 235 00:14:39,587 --> 00:14:42,066 Guess you could call him somethin' of a disciplinarian. 236 00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:48,739 Fair to say that he beat you? 237 00:14:51,599 --> 00:14:52,994 Put it this way. 238 00:14:53,018 --> 00:14:55,579 Pop liked his drink, liked his sports, 239 00:14:55,603 --> 00:14:58,040 liked his son actin' like a man. 240 00:14:58,064 --> 00:15:01,460 But I liked gardening, baking with my ma. 241 00:15:01,484 --> 00:15:04,195 I was sickly. Couldn't throw a ball. 242 00:15:04,738 --> 00:15:07,258 And the things I liked... 243 00:15:12,203 --> 00:15:14,765 You like wearing the panties? 244 00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:17,268 Maybe enjoyed dressing like a woman? 245 00:15:17,292 --> 00:15:20,604 Hell no. 246 00:15:20,628 --> 00:15:22,106 God. No. 247 00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:23,607 The feel is all. 248 00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:25,467 I stole 'em for the feel. 249 00:15:41,691 --> 00:15:45,212 You buried them? Under the house? 250 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:47,715 Why not borrow the panties? 251 00:15:47,739 --> 00:15:49,592 Return them to the drawer? 252 00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:52,327 There was no putting them back 253 00:15:53,078 --> 00:15:57,123 because I'd use them for, for private sex. 254 00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,503 "Private sex"? Masturbation? 255 00:16:02,337 --> 00:16:04,089 Boys will be boys. 256 00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:10,095 This is your typical oedipus complex. 257 00:16:11,763 --> 00:16:13,157 Jesus Christ. 258 00:16:13,181 --> 00:16:14,408 Let me explain it to you. 259 00:16:14,432 --> 00:16:16,661 It's an obsession with the mother. 260 00:16:16,685 --> 00:16:19,330 It's a competition with the father, yada yada. 261 00:16:19,354 --> 00:16:20,498 I know all about this stuff 262 00:16:20,522 --> 00:16:22,083 'cause I read lots of books in psychology. 263 00:16:22,107 --> 00:16:23,650 I could recommend some to you. 264 00:16:24,484 --> 00:16:26,361 That's very kind. 265 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:30,383 I can pretend to be a virgin if it's ruinin' your fun. 266 00:16:30,407 --> 00:16:32,468 Give you the feelin' you're poppin' my head cherry? 267 00:16:32,492 --> 00:16:34,345 No need to pretend. 268 00:16:34,369 --> 00:16:37,706 It's good to talk to someone so knowledgeable. 269 00:16:40,083 --> 00:16:41,310 May I ask, John. 270 00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:44,271 Your mother caught you. Were you punished? 271 00:16:46,381 --> 00:16:47,507 Yeah. 272 00:16:47,757 --> 00:16:48,818 And the old man never quit 273 00:16:48,842 --> 00:16:50,635 tryin' to beat the sissy out of me. 274 00:16:51,344 --> 00:16:54,865 But I got older. Got tired of it. 275 00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:56,701 Always dealing with him. 276 00:16:56,725 --> 00:16:59,185 Like a different person when he was drinking. 277 00:16:59,436 --> 00:17:03,773 And this one night, he wrestled me to the ground. 278 00:17:04,733 --> 00:17:06,210 He was drunk. 279 00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:08,212 He was cursing at me, beating on me, 280 00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:09,797 but I managed to get on top of him 281 00:17:09,821 --> 00:17:12,675 and hold him down. All right? 282 00:17:12,699 --> 00:17:14,010 And he was screaming at me. 283 00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:17,346 "Hit me!" He was saying, "hit me! Come on. Hit me!" 284 00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:19,598 Calling me a coward. "Hit me, you coward!" 285 00:17:19,622 --> 00:17:21,124 Did you hit him? 286 00:17:25,503 --> 00:17:27,231 I only held him down. 287 00:17:27,255 --> 00:17:29,382 Just held him there. 288 00:17:35,388 --> 00:17:37,140 Told him, "I love you." 289 00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:42,103 "I won't hit you. I love you." 290 00:17:48,401 --> 00:17:50,111 I took off that night. 291 00:17:51,154 --> 00:17:54,258 I figured if I left and made somethin' of myself, 292 00:17:54,282 --> 00:17:55,468 I'd come back 293 00:17:55,492 --> 00:17:57,636 and he'd have a reason to be proud of me. 294 00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:00,890 I made my way to sin city. 295 00:18:00,914 --> 00:18:02,600 It sounded so neat. 296 00:18:02,624 --> 00:18:04,644 What was your plan? 297 00:18:04,668 --> 00:18:06,378 I didn't have one. 298 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:09,607 No. I just focused on trying to find work, 299 00:18:09,631 --> 00:18:12,443 and it was a lot harder than I figured. 300 00:18:12,467 --> 00:18:15,696 I tried banks, schools, casinos. 301 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,865 Nobody would hire me because I was underage. 302 00:18:17,889 --> 00:18:19,283 I almost tucked tail, turned around, 303 00:18:19,307 --> 00:18:22,578 went back home, but then, a miracle. 304 00:18:24,229 --> 00:18:25,730 They were lookin' for a janitor. 305 00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:28,584 I met the mortician, Ben. 306 00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:30,628 He seemed real hesitant at first, 307 00:18:30,652 --> 00:18:32,338 but I told him that not everything in life 308 00:18:32,362 --> 00:18:33,923 is about a diploma. 309 00:18:33,947 --> 00:18:36,425 Sometimes it's about passion, and drive, 310 00:18:36,449 --> 00:18:37,677 and a way with people. 311 00:18:37,701 --> 00:18:39,804 I didn't need some fancy diploma. 312 00:18:39,828 --> 00:18:42,223 I had people skills. 313 00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:44,600 And he saw that. He hired me on the spot. 314 00:18:44,624 --> 00:18:46,310 Janitor/night watchman. 315 00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:49,689 Yeah, I was just a teenager movin' up in the world. 316 00:18:49,713 --> 00:18:52,465 I was so, so damn excited. 317 00:19:00,223 --> 00:19:01,659 He even gave me a cot, 318 00:19:01,683 --> 00:19:03,852 let me sleep right next to where he did the embalming. 319 00:19:05,687 --> 00:19:06,914 So he believed in me. 320 00:19:06,938 --> 00:19:08,457 Understood I was a hard worker. 321 00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:10,692 I was working the night shift, 7:00 to 7:00. 322 00:19:11,443 --> 00:19:16,865 Also, I got a chance to learn some, watching him work. 323 00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:03,661 John? 324 00:20:05,455 --> 00:20:06,539 John? 325 00:20:08,291 --> 00:20:09,417 John? 326 00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:13,755 Everything okay? 327 00:20:17,592 --> 00:20:21,680 Yeah. Yeah, just a nice memory. 328 00:20:32,607 --> 00:20:34,835 - It was my grandfather's. - That's nice. 329 00:20:34,859 --> 00:20:37,696 You're gonna steal it? 330 00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,050 You don't look like a thief. 331 00:20:41,074 --> 00:20:42,259 Okay. 332 00:20:42,283 --> 00:20:44,661 What does a... what does a thief look like? 333 00:20:45,995 --> 00:20:49,708 You dress well, and you're polite. 334 00:20:49,958 --> 00:20:51,560 - Well, that... - yeah, okay. 335 00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:53,312 Thank you. 336 00:20:53,336 --> 00:20:55,064 - That's my mom. - She's, 337 00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:59,384 always on me about taking pride in my appearance. 338 00:20:59,843 --> 00:21:01,862 She taught me how to iron, how to crease my clothes. 339 00:21:01,886 --> 00:21:04,490 Where is she? 340 00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:07,350 Ohio with my siblings. 341 00:21:08,018 --> 00:21:09,769 How many are you? 342 00:21:10,478 --> 00:21:11,813 Five. 343 00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:14,834 And I'm the oldest, so, 344 00:21:14,858 --> 00:21:16,651 you know, I kind of raised them. 345 00:21:16,985 --> 00:21:19,779 My, my mom was always working. 346 00:21:20,363 --> 00:21:22,800 And so, every day after school, 347 00:21:22,824 --> 00:21:24,510 I was alone with them when they were little, you know? 348 00:21:24,534 --> 00:21:25,970 So they'd always be tugging on me 349 00:21:25,994 --> 00:21:27,471 and asking me for stuff, 350 00:21:27,495 --> 00:21:30,975 like toys and candy and chips, whatever. 351 00:21:30,999 --> 00:21:34,145 And, and I felt bad 'cause I didn't have any money. 352 00:21:34,169 --> 00:21:38,089 So, so I started stealing the stuff they were asking for. 353 00:21:39,924 --> 00:21:42,344 I realized it was pretty easy. I was good at it. 354 00:21:44,888 --> 00:21:46,890 You ever worry you'll get caught? 355 00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:50,060 Yeah, I've been caught a few times. 356 00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:53,938 My mom made a point not to bail me out, 357 00:21:54,147 --> 00:21:55,732 but you learn from it. 358 00:21:55,982 --> 00:21:58,777 You figure out what to do to not get caught the next time. 359 00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:02,822 What matters is you make it home at the end of the night. 360 00:22:06,451 --> 00:22:08,828 I feel like you've lived so much. 361 00:22:10,622 --> 00:22:11,956 We'll, you're a girl. 362 00:22:12,207 --> 00:22:15,686 When you're a girl, everybody helps you, 363 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:17,545 get you back on track. 364 00:22:18,046 --> 00:22:21,150 If you're in trouble, people assume the best of you. 365 00:22:21,174 --> 00:22:24,928 If you're a guy, they assume the worst. 366 00:22:26,096 --> 00:22:29,599 Be told to man up, figure it out. 367 00:22:31,935 --> 00:22:33,812 I've never thought of it like that. 368 00:22:34,896 --> 00:22:37,691 It's okay. I figured it out. 369 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,736 I got a place, I got nice clothes, I can eat. 370 00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:43,822 Take out a pretty girl. 371 00:22:48,618 --> 00:22:49,911 Okay. You ready? 372 00:22:51,955 --> 00:22:53,081 For what? 373 00:22:54,082 --> 00:22:55,625 It's time to dash. 374 00:22:58,545 --> 00:22:59,754 No. 375 00:23:00,422 --> 00:23:02,233 But now I'm kind of giving away the gambit, 376 00:23:02,257 --> 00:23:04,235 - come on, we gotta go. - Right. 377 00:23:19,983 --> 00:23:21,544 You didn't hold your tongue downtown, 378 00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:22,569 why are you doing it now? 379 00:23:23,945 --> 00:23:25,047 It's nothing. 380 00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:26,781 Stop lookin' at me like that. 381 00:23:30,618 --> 00:23:32,763 I just didn't know you were such a kiss-ass is all. 382 00:23:32,787 --> 00:23:33,955 Okay. 383 00:23:35,707 --> 00:23:38,019 Cpd didn't kill those kids and neither did you. 384 00:23:38,043 --> 00:23:40,479 So put down your pitchfork and your cross 385 00:23:40,503 --> 00:23:41,814 and start flipping through the pages, 386 00:23:41,838 --> 00:23:43,607 - you son of a bitch. - Why are you defending them? 387 00:23:43,631 --> 00:23:45,234 It's a massive department. 388 00:23:45,258 --> 00:23:47,695 This was not on purpose. It wasn't malicious. 389 00:23:47,719 --> 00:23:49,113 Gacy fell through the cracks. 390 00:23:49,137 --> 00:23:51,181 Timmons said it himself. You heard him. 391 00:23:51,598 --> 00:23:53,951 He told us that we're gonna go through all these files, 392 00:23:53,975 --> 00:23:55,578 and we're gonna see that all these kids were troubled. 393 00:23:55,602 --> 00:23:57,538 Yeah, they're troubled. 394 00:23:57,562 --> 00:24:00,791 Drugs, runaways, gangs, delinquents. 395 00:24:00,815 --> 00:24:02,126 - Timmons was right. - Exactly. 396 00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:04,837 - That's my fucking point. - Finally, a fucking point. 397 00:24:04,861 --> 00:24:08,507 All right. Police area 73 doesn't communicate 398 00:24:08,531 --> 00:24:10,885 with police area 773, fine. 399 00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:12,386 But how about this? 400 00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:14,662 How many pages are in each of those files, give or take? 401 00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:18,517 I don't know. Couple. 402 00:24:18,541 --> 00:24:20,001 That's what I'm saying. 403 00:24:20,377 --> 00:24:22,504 There's fucking nothing in here. 404 00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:28,009 Two pages. Two pages. Three pages. 405 00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:32,657 Most of these are just the initial missing persons report. 406 00:24:32,681 --> 00:24:33,866 There's no field interviews, 407 00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:35,117 there's no contact with the person 408 00:24:35,141 --> 00:24:36,160 that reported them missing. 409 00:24:36,184 --> 00:24:37,328 Chicago didn't follow up. 410 00:24:37,352 --> 00:24:38,520 This? 411 00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:41,540 You would really not have to give a fuck 412 00:24:41,564 --> 00:24:43,024 to wind up with one page. 413 00:24:45,902 --> 00:24:47,630 But you don't get it. 414 00:24:47,654 --> 00:24:49,090 And it's not your fault that you don't get it. 415 00:24:49,114 --> 00:24:50,699 You're not in the muck. 416 00:24:51,366 --> 00:24:53,135 You didn't have Marko butkovich's spit 417 00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:55,596 all over your face, all right? 418 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,014 You're making this personal. 419 00:24:57,038 --> 00:24:58,623 Well, fuck yeah, I am. 420 00:24:59,708 --> 00:25:01,102 And that's not my fault. 421 00:25:02,085 --> 00:25:03,211 Sorry. 422 00:25:04,045 --> 00:25:05,022 What? 423 00:25:05,046 --> 00:25:06,148 Body we ID'd? 424 00:25:06,172 --> 00:25:09,026 Godzik? Mom's here. 425 00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:11,720 Wants to talk to somebody. 426 00:25:12,721 --> 00:25:15,598 She's got her kid's dental records and teeth. 427 00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:19,245 I can go do this. 428 00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:22,814 No. It's not your job. 429 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:10,820 Now, when you came home, how did... 430 00:26:16,326 --> 00:26:18,244 Excuse me for a moment. 431 00:26:24,334 --> 00:26:28,129 Sorry. I know I have another pen somewhere. 432 00:26:33,009 --> 00:26:35,011 Yes. Vegas. 433 00:26:35,512 --> 00:26:38,765 How did your family react when you came home? 434 00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:42,018 This is a mess. 435 00:26:46,856 --> 00:26:49,418 Is it bothering you? 436 00:26:49,442 --> 00:26:52,362 Better question is, why isn't it bothering you? 437 00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:55,257 If cleanliness is godliness, 438 00:26:55,281 --> 00:26:57,242 you're a goddamn heathen, aren't you? 439 00:27:02,997 --> 00:27:04,874 You're not gonna tidy up? 440 00:27:06,084 --> 00:27:07,335 Clean it. 441 00:27:10,338 --> 00:27:11,423 Clean it! 442 00:27:35,155 --> 00:27:36,448 The jacket. 443 00:27:48,376 --> 00:27:50,086 Ma forgave me. 444 00:27:50,337 --> 00:27:54,066 And pop felt it was time to move out, find a girl. 445 00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:55,342 And he wasn't wrong. 446 00:27:56,259 --> 00:27:58,821 I wanted to show him that I could do okay for myself 447 00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:00,239 on my own. 448 00:28:00,263 --> 00:28:02,950 I found a job at a men's clothing store not too far, 449 00:28:02,974 --> 00:28:04,225 in Springfield. 450 00:28:05,018 --> 00:28:07,371 And that's where I met my first wife. 451 00:28:18,406 --> 00:28:21,159 Had such a nice, warm feeling with marlynn. 452 00:28:21,785 --> 00:28:24,597 I always wanted to be a father, a family man, 453 00:28:24,621 --> 00:28:26,122 and I finally was. 454 00:28:32,087 --> 00:28:33,314 I loved the kids. 455 00:28:33,338 --> 00:28:35,107 It's hard being away from them. 456 00:28:35,131 --> 00:28:37,943 You, you were away often? 457 00:28:37,967 --> 00:28:41,221 Well, my father-in-law put me in charge of his restaurants. 458 00:28:42,138 --> 00:28:45,159 So he clearly liked you, respected you? 459 00:28:45,183 --> 00:28:47,286 No, I don't know about that. 460 00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:49,854 I think he just wanted what was best for his little girl. 461 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,292 Was your father-in-law difficult to impress? 462 00:28:53,316 --> 00:28:56,861 He was demanding. He didn't approve of me easy. 463 00:28:57,445 --> 00:29:00,383 So you inherited another father figure 464 00:29:00,407 --> 00:29:02,259 whose approval you couldn't earn? 465 00:29:02,283 --> 00:29:04,428 No, no. 466 00:29:04,452 --> 00:29:07,956 No, my father-in-law was tough on me, but... 467 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:11,501 shit. 468 00:29:12,877 --> 00:29:14,212 You're real good. 469 00:29:17,048 --> 00:29:20,343 Well, whatever it was with him, it helped with my dad. 470 00:29:22,512 --> 00:29:24,657 'Cause ma told him how well I was doin' 471 00:29:24,681 --> 00:29:27,243 and he just had to come see it for himself. 472 00:29:50,165 --> 00:29:52,292 He was proud of me that day. 473 00:29:52,625 --> 00:29:54,336 I know he was. 474 00:29:54,669 --> 00:29:56,230 Because he told me so. 475 00:29:56,254 --> 00:29:58,399 We were sitting there splittin' a bucket of biscuits 476 00:29:58,423 --> 00:30:00,401 and he looked me dead in the eye, 477 00:30:00,425 --> 00:30:03,487 and he says, "I was wrong about you, John." 478 00:30:03,511 --> 00:30:05,323 Good wife, good kids, good job. 479 00:30:05,347 --> 00:30:09,267 "You done good." Just like that. 480 00:30:11,686 --> 00:30:13,396 "You done good." 481 00:30:15,732 --> 00:30:17,525 Was on top of the world. 482 00:30:17,817 --> 00:30:20,528 Around that time is when I got hooked up with the jaycees. 483 00:30:27,118 --> 00:30:28,262 The social club? 484 00:30:28,286 --> 00:30:31,390 Social club? Jaycees is about politics. 485 00:30:31,414 --> 00:30:34,727 Means for young men to get into a network of professionals. 486 00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:37,063 You wind up meetin' important people, 487 00:30:37,087 --> 00:30:38,939 organizin' charitable events together. 488 00:30:38,963 --> 00:30:40,566 You have a love for politics. 489 00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:42,401 Politics is about power. 490 00:30:42,425 --> 00:30:44,403 Power depends on consent. 491 00:30:44,427 --> 00:30:45,613 That's a quote from 492 00:30:45,637 --> 00:30:48,223 "main currents in modern political thought." 493 00:30:48,932 --> 00:30:52,536 Lotta folks don't know that's all politics is. 494 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,563 The feelin' of bein' important, that people trust you. 495 00:30:55,772 --> 00:30:57,607 And you like power. 496 00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:00,110 Don't you? 497 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:04,698 You sittin' there, 498 00:31:05,365 --> 00:31:07,617 jottin' whatever you're jottin'. 499 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:12,163 Judgin' me when you don't even know me? 500 00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:18,521 At one point, the head of our chapter, 501 00:31:18,545 --> 00:31:21,148 he asked me personally for my help recruitin' new members. 502 00:31:21,172 --> 00:31:22,632 That's how much they trusted me. 503 00:31:23,550 --> 00:31:27,321 After a while, I got this notion to start showin' films 504 00:31:27,345 --> 00:31:29,281 after our meetings to draw interest. 505 00:31:45,238 --> 00:31:48,450 Whoa! 506 00:31:49,284 --> 00:31:50,285 Let's go! 507 00:31:50,827 --> 00:31:51,804 Yeah! 508 00:31:51,828 --> 00:31:54,181 Woo-hoo! 509 00:31:55,707 --> 00:31:57,584 Membership tripled. 510 00:32:00,795 --> 00:32:02,315 You like stag films? 511 00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:04,066 Never seen one. 512 00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:05,776 My god. 513 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,135 Yeah? 514 00:32:08,178 --> 00:32:10,114 Okay. 515 00:32:10,138 --> 00:32:12,182 You can't bullshit a bullshitter. 516 00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:19,332 Anyway, everybody agreed there was no harm in it, 517 00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:21,167 and it kind of snowballed, 518 00:32:21,191 --> 00:32:23,443 and this idea of wife swapping came up. 519 00:32:23,818 --> 00:32:25,671 Even got marlynn into it. 520 00:32:25,695 --> 00:32:29,324 And all of a sudden, I could fuck whoever I wanted. 521 00:32:29,866 --> 00:32:31,677 Even other men's wives. 522 00:32:31,701 --> 00:32:34,347 That's just how powerful I was. 523 00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:37,308 Plus, I had good standin' in the community, 524 00:32:37,332 --> 00:32:39,352 so I thought I might as well 525 00:32:39,376 --> 00:32:41,646 run for president of the Waterloo jaycees. 526 00:32:45,507 --> 00:32:47,801 And that's how I met Don vorhees. 527 00:32:48,343 --> 00:32:50,321 Local politician. 528 00:32:50,345 --> 00:32:53,074 Offered to be my campaign manager. 529 00:33:01,815 --> 00:33:04,335 Met him and his son. 530 00:33:19,874 --> 00:33:22,353 One day I was drivin', right? 531 00:33:22,377 --> 00:33:23,562 Just goin' about my day. 532 00:33:23,586 --> 00:33:26,399 I saw his son, Don Jr., hitchhikin'. 533 00:33:26,423 --> 00:33:27,799 I give him a ride. 534 00:33:28,174 --> 00:33:30,135 Pickin' him up that day. 535 00:33:30,635 --> 00:33:34,240 Probably the worst mistake of my life. 536 00:33:34,264 --> 00:33:36,867 Marlynn was out of town visiting her mother at the time 537 00:33:36,891 --> 00:33:41,271 and Don sr. Was a nice guy, I thought. 538 00:33:41,521 --> 00:33:44,107 So I assumed that his son was a nice kid. 539 00:33:46,317 --> 00:33:48,278 I was dumb and stupid. 540 00:33:52,574 --> 00:33:54,468 Pop always said that to me, 541 00:33:54,492 --> 00:33:56,679 that I shouldn't be so dumb and stupid. 542 00:33:56,703 --> 00:33:59,247 "Don't be so dumb and stupid, John Wayne." 543 00:34:00,832 --> 00:34:02,351 I should have listened. 544 00:34:33,782 --> 00:34:35,742 Because I'm gullible like that. 545 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,329 That's my fault. I just, I, I trust too easy. 546 00:34:39,662 --> 00:34:42,850 You feel this boy took advantage of your good nature? 547 00:34:42,874 --> 00:34:44,894 Kid ruined my life. 548 00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:47,980 Just when things were going perfect with my family, my pops. 549 00:34:48,004 --> 00:34:51,359 And for what? He wanted it, I wanted it. 550 00:34:51,383 --> 00:34:53,944 Are you saying it was a consensual relationship? 551 00:34:53,968 --> 00:34:56,322 - Damn right it was. - He was a teenager. 552 00:34:56,346 --> 00:34:57,847 You were a man. 553 00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:01,786 Okay. See, you don't understand. 554 00:35:01,810 --> 00:35:03,329 You don't understand at all. 555 00:35:03,353 --> 00:35:04,830 He and I had an agreement. 556 00:35:04,854 --> 00:35:06,666 I didn't force him to do anything. 557 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:09,335 He asked for money and I paid him. 558 00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:11,003 Then he wanted more. 559 00:35:11,027 --> 00:35:13,673 I says no, he starts talking about telling his father, 560 00:35:13,697 --> 00:35:14,715 and that is blackmail. 561 00:35:14,739 --> 00:35:16,825 Pure and simple, that is blackmail. 562 00:35:17,075 --> 00:35:19,828 And this is a fairy trait too, you know. 563 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:22,556 Lyin', flippin', changing their word. 564 00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:24,642 One moment this is okay, the next it isn't. 565 00:35:24,666 --> 00:35:27,311 Or there isn't enough money anymore. They're liars. 566 00:35:27,335 --> 00:35:30,231 You speak with great disdain for fairies. 567 00:35:30,255 --> 00:35:31,941 You hate them. Why? 568 00:35:31,965 --> 00:35:33,442 They're weak. 569 00:35:33,466 --> 00:35:36,553 You feel as though you're a different kind of homosexual? 570 00:35:39,723 --> 00:35:42,225 You've been listenin' to a word that I've said? 571 00:35:42,851 --> 00:35:44,436 I'm not a homosexual. 572 00:35:44,686 --> 00:35:47,832 Sorry, it's only that you're telling me you seek out men. 573 00:35:47,856 --> 00:35:49,250 I'm not a fuckin' fairy. 574 00:35:49,274 --> 00:35:51,711 But you spend money to have sex with them. 575 00:35:51,735 --> 00:35:54,571 - Christ's sake! - This is ridiculous. 576 00:35:55,572 --> 00:35:57,240 You are not listenin'. 577 00:35:57,782 --> 00:35:59,760 How can you get an accurate account of my mind 578 00:35:59,784 --> 00:36:02,430 when you're not listenin' to a thing that I'm tellin' you? 579 00:36:02,454 --> 00:36:03,788 This is sloppy. 580 00:36:04,205 --> 00:36:05,558 I'm gonna get on Sam about this. 581 00:36:05,582 --> 00:36:06,934 You're a woman for cryin' out loud. 582 00:36:06,958 --> 00:36:08,436 You can't understand how complicated 583 00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:10,253 gettin' off can be for a guy. 584 00:36:10,962 --> 00:36:13,733 They need a boy psychiatrist, a male psychiatrist in here. 585 00:36:13,757 --> 00:36:15,925 I apologize. I was wrong. 586 00:36:16,468 --> 00:36:18,612 Wrong to assume you're homosexual. 587 00:36:18,636 --> 00:36:21,681 That's... that it's not what you said to me. 588 00:36:28,730 --> 00:36:29,939 I'm not mad. 589 00:36:31,983 --> 00:36:33,836 I'm not mad at you, Deb. 590 00:36:33,860 --> 00:36:35,653 I'm sorry I lost it a bit. 591 00:36:36,321 --> 00:36:37,590 I'm trying to tell you, you don't... 592 00:36:37,614 --> 00:36:39,449 you don't seem to understand me. 593 00:36:40,825 --> 00:36:42,053 And everybody's getting this wrong. 594 00:36:42,077 --> 00:36:43,596 Everyone's getting me wrong. 595 00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:45,639 - That's frustrating. - It is. 596 00:36:45,663 --> 00:36:47,350 And the thing is, 597 00:36:47,374 --> 00:36:49,644 I'm not the monster image that's being portrayed in the papers. 598 00:36:49,668 --> 00:36:51,002 There's no truth to it. 599 00:36:51,628 --> 00:36:54,422 I was the one taken advantage of. 600 00:36:54,631 --> 00:36:57,777 And that's what all the lawyers and the cops are missing. 601 00:36:57,801 --> 00:37:01,739 Everyone's got this tunnel vision for these guys 602 00:37:01,763 --> 00:37:03,991 that I was dealing with, labeling them "victims" 603 00:37:04,015 --> 00:37:06,369 like they were altar boys or something. 604 00:37:06,393 --> 00:37:07,995 The focus has all been on them. 605 00:37:08,019 --> 00:37:09,538 But what was done to you? 606 00:37:09,562 --> 00:37:13,066 Exactly. Exactly. 607 00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:15,336 And what I don't understand is, 608 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,779 why are you the first person to ask me that, Deb? 609 00:37:19,989 --> 00:37:23,636 "Please don't help Mr. Gacy. 610 00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:26,788 He's been blowing and jerking and molesting me." 611 00:37:28,998 --> 00:37:31,060 The court was a joke. 612 00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,396 Do you know that when the sentencing report 613 00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:35,064 came back from Iowa state hospital, 614 00:37:35,088 --> 00:37:37,757 they recommended that I be given probation? 615 00:37:38,758 --> 00:37:40,111 Probation. 616 00:37:40,135 --> 00:37:42,345 Was never supposed to go to prison. 617 00:37:42,804 --> 00:37:45,015 Then they sentence me to ten years. 618 00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:48,810 You know, 619 00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:52,105 I don't even think my pops was surprised. 620 00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:55,567 It was like he expected it. 621 00:37:58,028 --> 00:38:00,947 Said something about how he had to work twice as hard now, 622 00:38:01,656 --> 00:38:04,075 to wipe out the blot on his good name. 623 00:38:09,456 --> 00:38:11,041 I was the blot. 624 00:38:24,846 --> 00:38:26,848 Nice of you to join us. 625 00:38:28,016 --> 00:38:29,410 All right. Let's go. 626 00:38:29,434 --> 00:38:31,554 Let's make the most out of the last hours of the day. 627 00:38:32,479 --> 00:38:33,480 I'll help. 628 00:38:41,988 --> 00:38:45,033 It wasn't a jab. I'd take any excuse not to be here. 629 00:38:46,993 --> 00:38:49,889 Yeah, believe it or not, I'd rather been here instead. 630 00:38:49,913 --> 00:38:51,349 Yeah, pretty easy day, really. 631 00:38:51,373 --> 00:38:52,892 One kid still had his shoes on, 632 00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:54,959 so he didn't spill any bones anywhere. 633 00:39:03,009 --> 00:39:04,427 How was your Christmas? 634 00:39:07,889 --> 00:39:10,100 Got a couple of dandyburgers. 635 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,268 Got a little drunk. 636 00:39:13,603 --> 00:39:15,331 Passed a lot out. 637 00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:17,023 How about yourself? 638 00:39:21,152 --> 00:39:23,029 I wasn't my best. 639 00:39:24,906 --> 00:39:25,990 Yeah? 640 00:39:28,451 --> 00:39:30,453 I couldn't really talk much 641 00:39:32,330 --> 00:39:34,082 and they all noticed. 642 00:39:40,422 --> 00:39:43,150 Growing up, all I wanted was to push a black and white, 643 00:39:43,174 --> 00:39:45,969 catch bad guys, you know, like in the movies. 644 00:39:48,054 --> 00:39:51,141 Yeah. How's that working out for you? 645 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,561 I'm digging fucking bodies up out of a floor. 646 00:39:59,149 --> 00:40:00,984 So pretty fucking good? 647 00:40:04,487 --> 00:40:07,991 Yeah. Pretty fucking good. 648 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,160 I imagine prison was 649 00:40:34,184 --> 00:40:37,371 quite a shocking experience for you, 650 00:40:37,395 --> 00:40:40,065 given that you'd never have been in legal trouble before. 651 00:40:41,232 --> 00:40:42,567 I was terrified. 652 00:40:43,151 --> 00:40:45,236 Worried someone was gonna rape me. 653 00:40:45,528 --> 00:40:48,549 But I did everything I could to make the best of a bad situation 654 00:40:48,573 --> 00:40:51,034 and restore honor to my dad's name. 655 00:40:51,576 --> 00:40:56,265 After a while, things ended up being fine. 656 00:40:56,289 --> 00:40:58,500 There's this, this one older fella 657 00:40:59,376 --> 00:41:01,211 a few cells down from me. 658 00:41:01,544 --> 00:41:03,380 He's a real talented painter. 659 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,943 I'm better than him but, he was still good. 660 00:41:07,967 --> 00:41:10,112 And I asked him if he would paint 661 00:41:10,136 --> 00:41:13,098 my father's portrait from a photo that I'd brought in. 662 00:41:13,765 --> 00:41:15,392 I wanted to gift it to him. 663 00:41:18,436 --> 00:41:21,374 He took his sweet-ass time. 664 00:41:21,398 --> 00:41:24,484 Had to keep on him. Fucking artist. 665 00:41:25,402 --> 00:41:27,404 Took him three months to finish. 666 00:41:27,654 --> 00:41:30,365 My old man died before I could give it to him. 667 00:41:31,574 --> 00:41:33,910 Christmas day, '69. 668 00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:39,374 How'd you feel when you found out he passed? 669 00:41:41,584 --> 00:41:45,505 Like I killed him. The shame of it killed him. 670 00:41:45,922 --> 00:41:48,508 His death profoundly affected you. 671 00:41:50,385 --> 00:41:52,095 He was my dad. 672 00:41:52,554 --> 00:41:54,556 How did you deal with it? 673 00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:59,078 What? I'm not sure. 674 00:41:59,102 --> 00:42:03,356 I mean, that's life? 675 00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:05,608 Shit happens? 676 00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:11,322 I got let out a little while later. Paroled. 677 00:42:11,573 --> 00:42:13,509 Early. Remarkably early. 678 00:42:13,533 --> 00:42:15,261 Yeah. They knew I didn't belong there. 679 00:42:15,285 --> 00:42:16,721 Was a model inmate. 680 00:42:16,745 --> 00:42:19,039 They studied me like you're doing now. 681 00:42:19,372 --> 00:42:21,374 Doctors, parole board. 682 00:42:22,167 --> 00:42:24,603 They found me to be a near-perfect case 683 00:42:24,627 --> 00:42:26,272 of rehabilitation. 684 00:42:26,296 --> 00:42:28,274 Figured I benefited society. 685 00:42:28,298 --> 00:42:30,550 Let me out after 18 months. 686 00:42:30,967 --> 00:42:35,138 And that says everything you need to know right there. 687 00:42:41,644 --> 00:42:43,372 I just wish I could've made him proud of me 688 00:42:43,396 --> 00:42:44,522 one more time. 689 00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:01,122 Never saw marlynn or my kids after that. 690 00:43:02,123 --> 00:43:03,809 - Why? - She took them. 691 00:43:03,833 --> 00:43:05,168 Nothing I could do. 692 00:43:05,752 --> 00:43:08,314 It's fairly commonplace in a divorce, 693 00:43:08,338 --> 00:43:10,441 fathers work something out, 694 00:43:10,465 --> 00:43:14,010 arrange to see their kids on holidays, what have you. 695 00:43:14,386 --> 00:43:17,514 Even incarcerated people still see their children. 696 00:43:17,847 --> 00:43:20,159 Did marlynn prevent you from seeing them 697 00:43:20,183 --> 00:43:21,351 or did you stay away? 698 00:43:21,601 --> 00:43:23,746 It just boils down to she took them from me. 699 00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:27,065 I only ask because you were so invested in being a father. 700 00:43:27,691 --> 00:43:28,876 I don't understand. 701 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:31,504 Just go back to that time, in your mind, 702 00:43:31,528 --> 00:43:34,173 to how you felt when you were released. 703 00:43:34,197 --> 00:43:36,533 I mean, your kids were quite young. 704 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,096 You'd only been away a year and a half. 705 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,681 You didn't reach out. Why? 706 00:43:41,705 --> 00:43:43,099 See, you're going in circles now. 707 00:43:43,123 --> 00:43:45,267 Did some part of you feel relieved they were gone? 708 00:43:45,291 --> 00:43:46,519 Okay. We're not going into that. 709 00:43:46,543 --> 00:43:48,187 Knowing you had this proclivity for young men, 710 00:43:48,211 --> 00:43:49,563 did you feel it was for the best? 711 00:43:49,587 --> 00:43:51,381 No, we're not going into it. 712 00:43:51,881 --> 00:43:53,192 I was a family man. 713 00:43:53,216 --> 00:43:54,360 A happily married one. I just... 714 00:43:54,384 --> 00:43:55,736 I couldn't have the kids. 715 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,530 I was supposed to stay near my mother. 716 00:43:57,554 --> 00:43:58,739 My mother. 717 00:43:58,763 --> 00:44:00,449 That's what the parole recommendation was, 718 00:44:00,473 --> 00:44:01,492 so that's what I did. 719 00:44:01,516 --> 00:44:03,226 I did what I was told. 720 00:44:03,768 --> 00:44:06,372 Now, I could tell you about that part if you want 721 00:44:06,396 --> 00:44:07,540 but you have to stop it with this. 722 00:44:07,564 --> 00:44:09,149 You gotta knock it off. 723 00:44:13,403 --> 00:44:17,240 It's right around this time, by your own admission, 724 00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:20,386 that you murdered the first young man. 725 00:44:20,410 --> 00:44:21,745 Self-defense. 726 00:44:22,704 --> 00:44:24,289 Will you tell me about it? 727 00:44:26,499 --> 00:44:28,728 Greyhound bus boy. 728 00:44:28,752 --> 00:44:30,628 Is that what you call him? 729 00:44:31,755 --> 00:44:33,840 Did this boy have a name? 730 00:44:38,511 --> 00:44:42,557 He must have. I'm sure he did. 731 00:44:50,523 --> 00:44:52,359 Pervasive narcissism. 732 00:44:53,151 --> 00:44:56,547 Personality disorder with obsessive-compulsive, 733 00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:59,449 antisocial and hypomanic qualities. 734 00:44:59,657 --> 00:45:02,553 All compounded by alcohol and drugs. 735 00:45:02,577 --> 00:45:04,847 Grandiose sense of self-importance. 736 00:45:04,871 --> 00:45:07,892 Possibly borderline psychopathic personality 737 00:45:07,916 --> 00:45:10,853 with episodes of paranoid schizophrenia. 738 00:45:10,877 --> 00:45:12,772 Psycho-sexual conflicts, 739 00:45:12,796 --> 00:45:15,816 a pronounced feeling of masculine inadequacy, 740 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,278 an alarming lack of empathy, ego disintegration, 741 00:45:19,302 --> 00:45:22,514 expressions of very hostile, dangerous impulses. 742 00:45:27,936 --> 00:45:32,148 So? He's crazy, right? 743 00:45:32,816 --> 00:45:34,526 I've never seen anything like it. 744 00:45:35,276 --> 00:45:36,319 Like him. 745 00:45:36,653 --> 00:45:38,321 I hope to never again. 746 00:45:47,497 --> 00:45:49,183 Was there anything in what he told you 747 00:45:49,207 --> 00:45:53,187 that could explain why he did this? 748 00:45:53,211 --> 00:45:55,481 Did he say why? No. 749 00:45:55,505 --> 00:45:57,817 But, I think he was killing off 750 00:45:57,841 --> 00:46:00,528 bits and pieces of himself that he hated, 751 00:46:00,552 --> 00:46:02,488 that his father hated. 752 00:46:02,512 --> 00:46:05,181 Specifically, his homosexuality. 753 00:46:05,515 --> 00:46:07,660 We have to prove gacy has a condition. 754 00:46:07,684 --> 00:46:09,745 Loses control, loses his grip on reality, 755 00:46:09,769 --> 00:46:13,207 prevents him from understanding what he's doing is illegal. 756 00:46:13,231 --> 00:46:15,525 Does this evaluation support that? 757 00:46:17,861 --> 00:46:20,965 When you consider his various delusions, 758 00:46:20,989 --> 00:46:22,383 psychotic episodes, 759 00:46:22,407 --> 00:46:26,578 his complete lack of emotional control under duress, 760 00:46:27,537 --> 00:46:29,497 I'd say it's entirely possible. 761 00:46:29,706 --> 00:46:31,332 And you'll testify to that? 762 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,733 I moved up my flight. 763 00:46:38,757 --> 00:46:40,693 - Headed back this evening. - Great. 764 00:46:40,717 --> 00:46:42,862 Obviously, I'll file my findings. 765 00:46:42,886 --> 00:46:45,680 Make myself available as you need me. 766 00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:49,225 O'Hare has a bar, right? 767 00:46:49,726 --> 00:46:51,620 Gate 38. 768 00:46:51,644 --> 00:46:52,687 Great. 769 00:46:54,356 --> 00:46:56,232 - Take care. - You too. 770 00:47:05,742 --> 00:47:06,844 We are going with this. 771 00:47:06,868 --> 00:47:09,680 Every interview, every piece of press 772 00:47:09,704 --> 00:47:11,057 that mentions John Wayne gacy 773 00:47:11,081 --> 00:47:13,559 has got to include the word psychotic. 774 00:47:13,583 --> 00:47:15,394 We drive home how unstable he is. 775 00:47:15,418 --> 00:47:17,605 John gacy, face of insanity. 776 00:47:17,629 --> 00:47:19,255 That's how we win. 777 00:47:24,135 --> 00:47:27,597 Is it a win if we win? 778 00:47:57,002 --> 00:47:58,628 Excuse me. 779 00:48:00,505 --> 00:48:02,424 You're Elizabeth piest. 780 00:48:03,591 --> 00:48:05,444 - Yes? - I saw you on TV. 781 00:48:05,468 --> 00:48:06,803 Robert's mother? 782 00:48:07,554 --> 00:48:10,056 I'm eugenia godzik, 783 00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:12,726 Greg's mother. 784 00:48:18,356 --> 00:48:19,691 I... 785 00:48:21,776 --> 00:48:23,445 I needed to see it. 786 00:48:24,112 --> 00:48:26,072 Doesn't seem real. 787 00:48:26,489 --> 00:48:29,993 The whole time, he was in there, 788 00:48:30,827 --> 00:48:32,579 twenty minutes away 789 00:48:33,788 --> 00:48:37,000 every day for two years. 790 00:48:39,377 --> 00:48:40,879 Can you make sense of it? 791 00:48:44,591 --> 00:48:46,468 I went looking for Rob 792 00:48:47,761 --> 00:48:49,804 down by the river the other day. 793 00:48:50,764 --> 00:48:52,807 That's where he... 794 00:48:55,143 --> 00:48:57,979 Threw him into the river. 795 00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:03,068 I don't know why I thought I'd find Rob, 796 00:49:04,527 --> 00:49:07,113 but it was frozen. 797 00:49:08,782 --> 00:49:11,701 I have to wait till spring to find my boy. 798 00:49:15,038 --> 00:49:18,375 The kind of... how a man... 799 00:49:19,042 --> 00:49:21,586 the kind of evil that man is. 800 00:49:24,881 --> 00:49:27,068 I spoke to him. 801 00:49:27,092 --> 00:49:28,736 To gacy? 802 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,553 Begged him for help. 803 00:49:31,054 --> 00:49:33,783 He was Greg's boss at the time. 804 00:49:36,142 --> 00:49:38,895 I called to ask him if he'd seen my son 805 00:49:40,063 --> 00:49:41,957 and he told me Greg had left a message 806 00:49:41,981 --> 00:49:43,167 on his answering machine 807 00:49:43,191 --> 00:49:46,212 days after I had reported him missing, 808 00:49:46,236 --> 00:49:48,405 that he was probably fine. 809 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,992 When I asked him to play the message for me, 810 00:49:55,954 --> 00:49:57,872 he said he'd erased it. 811 00:49:59,582 --> 00:50:01,543 - That's... - Cruel. 812 00:50:11,678 --> 00:50:17,159 My husband and I called Chicago police so often. 813 00:50:17,183 --> 00:50:18,869 Kept telling me to trust them. 814 00:50:21,688 --> 00:50:24,917 They weren't trying like I was trying. 815 00:50:24,941 --> 00:50:27,485 I spoke to every halfway house, 816 00:50:28,111 --> 00:50:31,197 every group dealing with runaways, 817 00:50:31,865 --> 00:50:34,993 even hired a private detective to do their job. 818 00:50:39,873 --> 00:50:44,627 All they could do was give us Greg's bones in a bag 819 00:50:47,797 --> 00:50:49,632 and apologize. 820 00:51:31,549 --> 00:51:32,842 I love you. 821 00:51:38,181 --> 00:51:39,659 Billy? 822 00:51:42,018 --> 00:51:44,205 This is fucked. 823 00:51:44,229 --> 00:51:46,731 - What? - This is just fucked. 824 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,984 - Why? - Because I'm not a... I'm not... 825 00:51:51,653 --> 00:51:53,530 I'm not a good person like you. 826 00:51:53,905 --> 00:51:55,174 Yes, you are. 827 00:51:55,198 --> 00:51:57,885 I've done really fucked up things in my life. 828 00:51:57,909 --> 00:51:59,261 I don't care. 829 00:51:59,285 --> 00:52:01,180 I'm trying to tell you that you should care, okay? 830 00:52:01,204 --> 00:52:02,789 Me and Danny, we, 831 00:52:04,791 --> 00:52:07,627 we, we nearly killed a guy one time 832 00:52:08,169 --> 00:52:10,130 for his TV. Like... 833 00:52:10,839 --> 00:52:13,734 - Billy... - You're not for me, okay? 834 00:52:13,758 --> 00:52:14,902 And, and that's okay. 835 00:52:14,926 --> 00:52:16,112 You know, there's, there's, there's an... 836 00:52:16,136 --> 00:52:18,197 there's a good guy out there for you, 837 00:52:18,221 --> 00:52:21,158 a guy with... you know, he's got a good job and, 838 00:52:21,182 --> 00:52:22,868 and he's not doing fucked up shit all the time. 839 00:52:22,892 --> 00:52:24,370 And... and he's, 840 00:52:24,394 --> 00:52:26,271 he's a guy that you can be really proud of. 841 00:52:27,981 --> 00:52:30,108 So shut the hell up and be him. 842 00:52:31,901 --> 00:52:33,319 Be that guy. 843 00:52:34,404 --> 00:52:36,340 Get a real job. 844 00:52:36,364 --> 00:52:38,867 Bag groceries, I don't care. 845 00:52:39,409 --> 00:52:42,704 Whatever it is, I'll be proud of you just for trying. 846 00:52:47,250 --> 00:52:49,252 I know who you are. 847 00:52:51,171 --> 00:52:52,881 I'm for you, 848 00:52:54,257 --> 00:52:56,217 so I'm not going anywhere. 849 00:53:15,737 --> 00:53:17,006 Hello? 850 00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:21,427 Commander. Kozenczak, des plaines. 851 00:53:21,451 --> 00:53:22,970 It's late. 852 00:53:22,994 --> 00:53:25,097 Been doing some digging. 853 00:53:25,121 --> 00:53:26,599 A year ago, 854 00:53:26,623 --> 00:53:30,436 Robert Donnelly is walking from college to the bus stop. 855 00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:32,772 Gacy pulls over, pretends to be a cop, 856 00:53:32,796 --> 00:53:35,941 cuffs him, takes him to his house, 857 00:53:35,965 --> 00:53:39,111 he sodomizes him, he pisses on him. 858 00:53:39,135 --> 00:53:41,656 He forces him to play Russian roulette. 859 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,240 He takes him into the bathtub 860 00:53:43,264 --> 00:53:47,119 and he drowns him over and over until he loses consciousness. 861 00:53:47,143 --> 00:53:50,122 - Donnelly begs gacy to kill him. - Chief... 862 00:53:50,146 --> 00:53:52,941 State's attorney's office declines to prosecute. 863 00:53:55,026 --> 00:53:57,320 They called it homosexual horseplay. 864 00:53:58,905 --> 00:54:00,657 Now three months later, 865 00:54:01,700 --> 00:54:03,785 gacy attacks Jeffrey rignall. 866 00:54:04,911 --> 00:54:06,246 Same outcome. 867 00:54:06,788 --> 00:54:10,351 That and the two missing employees 868 00:54:10,375 --> 00:54:12,210 that you and I talked about, 869 00:54:13,420 --> 00:54:14,963 it's not a fuck up. 870 00:54:15,672 --> 00:54:20,051 It's not a miscommunication, an oversight. 871 00:54:23,847 --> 00:54:25,181 That's a scandal. 872 00:54:26,349 --> 00:54:28,018 Ten days, 873 00:54:28,893 --> 00:54:33,165 we had gacy tailed and in custody in ten fucking days. 874 00:54:33,189 --> 00:54:35,918 Chicago had ten years. 875 00:54:35,942 --> 00:54:37,277 You finished? 876 00:54:37,610 --> 00:54:40,089 Your boy, Rob piest? 877 00:54:40,113 --> 00:54:41,966 You know why you launched a thousand ships 878 00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:43,426 looking for that boy? 879 00:54:43,450 --> 00:54:45,011 Makes me wonder. 880 00:54:45,035 --> 00:54:46,721 What if he'd been a runaway, 881 00:54:46,745 --> 00:54:49,289 a thug, a queer, an addict? 882 00:54:49,622 --> 00:54:52,208 How many days would it have taken you then? 883 00:55:07,390 --> 00:55:09,309 - Hello? - Don't be mad. 884 00:55:09,517 --> 00:55:11,912 What? Where are you? 885 00:55:11,936 --> 00:55:13,122 I know I'm late. I'm sorry. 886 00:55:13,146 --> 00:55:15,541 But I got the best reason in the world. 887 00:55:15,565 --> 00:55:19,128 I think I got a job, a real job. 888 00:55:19,152 --> 00:55:21,047 - Serious? - Yeah. 889 00:55:21,071 --> 00:55:22,965 Your fiance's got a job. 890 00:55:22,989 --> 00:55:26,010 I'm, I'm so proud of you. 891 00:55:26,034 --> 00:55:27,386 We should celebrate. 892 00:55:27,410 --> 00:55:29,096 I gotta sign some of the stuff for this guy but, 893 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,807 but I'll be there really soon. I love you. 894 00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:45,006 You, you just looked so nice. 895 00:57:59,562 --> 00:58:02,041 I talked to him. I called him up to find out 896 00:58:02,065 --> 00:58:05,711 if my Gregory called and he said he did, 897 00:58:05,735 --> 00:58:08,214 and that he was gonna come to work. And... 898 00:58:08,238 --> 00:58:09,548 And I says, "well, did he ever come?" 899 00:58:09,572 --> 00:58:11,300 He says, "no." And I says, 900 00:58:11,324 --> 00:58:12,968 "how do you know it was Gregory?" 901 00:58:12,992 --> 00:58:17,056 And he says because he had him on his, tape, you know. 902 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,474 And I asked him if he... 903 00:58:18,498 --> 00:58:20,393 You know, if he could play it back. 904 00:58:20,417 --> 00:58:22,419 He said, no. He erased it. So I wouldn't know. 64834

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