Original subtitles

>> FOOTBALL, IN ENGLAND, IS THE

PEOPLE'S GAME AND WORKING MAN'S

GAME.

BUT EVERYONE PLAYED THE GAME,

CERTAINLY EVERYONE I KNEW PLAYED

THE GAME FROM AN EARLY AGE, AS

SOON AS YOU COULD KICK A BALL.

AND THEN, AS YOU GREW OLDER, YOU

WENT TO THE GAMES.

WHICHEVER TEAM YOU SUPPORTED,

YOU WENT, AND ON THE MONDAY

MORNING, YOU'D ALL BE AT SCHOOL

DISCUSSING THE GAMES FROM THE

WEEKEND.

I'M A SHEFF WEDNESDAY FAN, AND I

WAS BORN IN SHEFFIELD ON A

WEDNESDAY.

YOU COULDN'T HAVE SCRIPTED IT

BETTER.

AND I'VE BEEN A SEASON-TICKET

HOLDER FOR 35 YEARS.

FOOTBALL WAS INGRAINED IN THE

FABRIC OF THE SOCIETY, CERTAINLY

THE AREA THAT I GREW UP IN.

AT THAT TIME, THE BIGGEST GAME

OF THE YEAR WAS THE FA CUP

FINAL.

IT WAS THE SHOWPIECE EVENT.

AND THE NEXT BIGGEST GAME WAS

THE SEMI-FINAL.

AND SO FOR ANYONE ON THAT DAY TO

GET A TICKET FOR THE FINAL --

THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN HEADING TO

HILLSBOROUGH JUST THINKING

THEY'D WON THE LOTTERY.

You get up in the morning. You come out after winter and

You come out after winter and you come out and it's lovely

you come out and it's lovely and sunny and just a

and sunny and just a little bit warm.

little bit warm. You go, Ah.

You go, Ah. It was a lovely day.

It meant that life was Liverpool, and so it became

Liverpool, and so it became to me as well.

to me as well. It was never any choice of

It was never any choice of being anybody else.

being anybody else. You were always going to

You were always going to be a Liverpool fan.

The F.A. Cup Semifinal still at that point meant something.

at that point meant something. And winning an F.A. Cup

And winning an F.A. Cup Semifinal, being at an F.A. Cup

Semifinal, being at an F.A. Cup Semifinal was a very special

Semifinal was a very special event in any football fan's life

event in any football fan's life at that point.

Not really doing anything on my own.

on my own. I don't think I was a very

I don't think I was a very grown up 18 year old.

We took her to the train and put her on the train and Richard was

her on the train and Richard was to meet her at the other end.

to meet her at the other end. We were going up after

We were going up after the game and we were picking

the game and we were picking Stephanie up and driving her

Stephanie up and driving her home and we were gonna have a

home and we were gonna have a picnic on the pass on the way

picnic on the pass on the way out to Sheffield.

out to Sheffield. Trace was gonna bring all

Trace was gonna bring all butties, I was gonna bring the

butties, I was gonna bring the goodies, as she said, cakes,

goodies, as she said, cakes, biscuits, bottle of wine.

biscuits, bottle of wine. James was so excited that

James was so excited that he was going to the game.

he was going to the game. When he got on the front door,

When he got on the front door, he just turned round and looked

he just turned round and looked at me and he said, Mom, we're

at me and he said, Mom, we're gonna win today, and I just shut

gonna win today, and I just shut the door never knowing that'd

the door never knowing that'd be the last time I'd ever see

be the last time I'd ever see my son alive.

Saturday the 15th of April, 1989, went on duty about half

1989, went on duty about half past 8 in the morning.

past 8 in the morning. Obviously we knew it was a

Obviously we knew it was a semi-final match,

semi-final match, Liverpool and Notts Forest.

Liverpool and Notts Forest. Epic game.

Epic game. Obviously you've got to have

Obviously you've got to have police officers not just at the

police officers not just at the ground, you've got to cover the

ground, you've got to cover the whole city so it's all hands to

whole city so it's all hands to the pump, really.

I'd booked to go to Scotland for a week and they said you're

a week and they said you're gonna have to delay it because

gonna have to delay it because we need everybody to work on a

we need everybody to work on a Saturday, and of course you can

Saturday, and of course you can go on your leave on a Sunday.

go on your leave on a Sunday. We got to the grounds about

We got to the grounds about 9:30 AM, drove there in our

9:30 AM, drove there in our own cars in uniform.

own cars in uniform. I think I parked probably half a

I think I parked probably half a mile away from Hillsborough and

mile away from Hillsborough and walked down to the ground.

The police would come from all over South Yorkshire.

all over South Yorkshire. There'd be dog handlers,

There'd be dog handlers, police horses.

police horses. In the calendar of

In the calendar of South Yorkshire's year this

South Yorkshire's year this will have been the biggest

will have been the biggest thing they were doing.

thing they were doing. A third of the force all out on

A third of the force all out on one day, massive operation.

one day, massive operation. It needed somebody with

It needed somebody with experience and know how,

experience and know how, and craft, and also somebody

and craft, and also somebody who knew about football.

Sheffield Wednesday football club is under the jurisdiction

club is under the jurisdiction of Hamilton Road police station.

of Hamilton Road police station. The chief superintendent who has

The chief superintendent who has responsibility for that division

responsibility for that division is Brian Mole.

Brian Mole has policed Hillsborough and been

Hillsborough and been responsible for Hillsborough

responsible for Hillsborough Stadium since the early 80s.

He's one of those guys who grew into this job and was loyal

into this job and was loyal to his officers but he was

to his officers but he was grounded in experience.

grounded in experience. He knew the job.

He knew the job. He knew the area and actually

He knew the area and actually knew football as well.

[ Unintelligible yelling ]

Shut your mouth or I'll blow your head off!

Shut it!

An informant had told me that a young police officer who was in

young police officer who was in his early 20s, very new to the

his early 20s, very new to the service, had been lured to a

service, had been lured to a post office in Ranmoor.

[ yelling]

From there he was taken by armed robbers

taken by armed robbers with balaclavas on.

with balaclavas on. [ yelling ]

They had two pistols with them. They pointed them at his head.

It later turned out they were just officers playing

were just officers playing a trick on him.

Now, none of us are going to enjoy that, and they certainly

enjoy that, and they certainly aren't going to enjoy it

aren't going to enjoy it when you find out there's

when you find out there's some colleagues that's done

some colleagues that's done it to you.

His humiliation must have been complete.

He went home, told his wife, and then the next thing you

and then the next thing you know a complaint's made.

know a complaint's made. So, an investigation was

So, an investigation was started, which was when the leak

started, which was when the leak came to me that they set this

came to me that they set this poor officer up.

At the end of it all they decided to sack four of them

decided to sack four of them and reduce two in rank

and reduce two in rank and fine two others.

There's a huge amount of embarrassment and chief

embarrassment and chief superintendent Brian Mole,

superintendent Brian Mole, who would have had absolutely

who would have had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with

nothing whatsoever to do with the incident, felt the sharp

the incident, felt the sharp brunt of it by being

brunt of it by being transferred, I think I'm right

transferred, I think I'm right in saying, for the first

in saying, for the first time ever outside of

time ever outside of Sheffield from F division

Sheffield from F division Hamilton Road to Barnsley.

It means that 21 days before the semifinal, on the 15th of April

semifinal, on the 15th of April 1989, 21 days, an officer with

1989, 21 days, an officer with no experience of policing

no experience of policing Hillsborough is given the job

Hillsborough is given the job that Brian Mole had.

that Brian Mole had. David Duckenfield is in a

David Duckenfield is in a position where he does not have

position where he does not have the experience to deal

the experience to deal with the complexity of

with the complexity of Hillsborough should anything

Hillsborough should anything actually go wrong.

The first thing he said when he sat down was, Welcome ladies

sat down was, Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the

and gentlemen to the press conference ahead

press conference ahead of the Liverpool

of the Liverpool versus Nottinghamshire.

And everybody looked around and then somebody said,

and then somebody said, not, Nottingham Forest,

not, Nottingham Forest, Nottingham Forest.

Nottingham Forest. So, I immediately thought, if he

So, I immediately thought, if he doesn't know the names of the

doesn't know the names of the teams at this stage, yeah,

teams at this stage, yeah, that's a bit odd.

that's a bit odd. Maybe it was a slip

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue.

of the tongue. But it also made me think, maybe

But it also made me think, maybe he isn't a football person.

he isn't a football person. >This is an all-ticket game.

>This is an all-ticket game. A football person's likely to

A football person's likely to have a better handle on what the

have a better handle on what the event's going to be like and all

event's going to be like and all the different combinations that

the different combinations that make up football in terms of the

make up football in terms of the passions and the tribalism.

passions and the tribalism. He just came across as an

He just came across as an academic, not somebody that was

academic, not somebody that was in any way, shape, or form

in any way, shape, or form like his predecessor.

About ten o'clockish we went into the north stand,

into the north stand, the cantilever stand and

the cantilever stand and we had a briefing with a lot

we had a briefing with a lot of senior officers.

of senior officers. The briefing basically went

The briefing basically went the same at every match.

You had discussions of how to react with people

to react with people who were arrested for

who were arrested for offenses, monitoring the

offenses, monitoring the crowd for offenses,

crowd for offenses, disciplining the crowd.

And not a word on crowd safety. This briefing just seemed to

This briefing just seemed to go on, and on, and on.

go on, and on, and on. And I'll always remember

And I'll always remember Mr. Duckenfield, his last words

Mr. Duckenfield, his last words were, Well ladies and gentlemen,

were, Well ladies and gentlemen, I know it's been a very long

I know it's been a very long and involved briefing, but I do

and involved briefing, but I do believe we've covered

believe we've covered for every eventuality.

And I thought at the time, I thought, this guy likes

I thought, this guy likes the sound of his own voice.

Hillsborough was an old stadium that had been kind of upgraded

that had been kind of upgraded for the 1966 World Cup.

for the 1966 World Cup. There had been modifications

There had been modifications made but a perfect example

made but a perfect example of its danger was the

of its danger was the Leppings Lane End.

Leppings Lane End. If you start out on the street,

If you start out on the street, there is only access

there is only access from Leppings Lane.

from Leppings Lane. You arrive outside of the

You arrive outside of the stadium and it was a

stadium and it was a well-known bottle neck.

well-known bottle neck. You've got over 24,000 people

You've got over 24,000 people being processed through this

being processed through this small number of turnstiles.

small number of turnstiles. All of the fans are converging

All of the fans are converging on the one spot.

We didn't really have plans for going to the match.

for going to the match. We couldn't get tickets.

We couldn't get tickets. It was always impossible

It was always impossible almost to get tickets

almost to get tickets for the semifinal.

for the semifinal. But you didn't want

But you didn't want to miss that.

to miss that. So, it was worth a drive to

So, it was worth a drive to Sheffield on the off chance that

Sheffield on the off chance that you might get in the ground.

At that end of the ground, the Hillsborough, there

the Hillsborough, there is a concourse area.

is a concourse area. You kind of go in to some

You kind of go in to some outer gates before you go

outer gates before you go through the turnstiles.

through the turnstiles. And we were herded

And we were herded into that area.

into that area. I didn't have tickets but I

I didn't have tickets but I thought, I'm herded in here, you

thought, I'm herded in here, you know what, who knows what might

know what, who knows what might happen, who knows, I might be

happen, who knows, I might be able to give a guy a fiver

able to give a guy a fiver on the gate.

It got fairly crushy there. And so, they opened

And so, they opened up the gates, and

up the gates, and everyone went through.

everyone went through. And we thought, brilliant.

Like all of us, I tried to get behind the goal and way too many

behind the goal and way too many of us tried to get behind the

of us tried to get behind the goal and it was about the

goal and it was about the worst experience I ever had

worst experience I ever had at a football match.

The match in 1981 when fans were crushed at Hillsborough, people

crushed at Hillsborough, people could have been seriously

could have been seriously injured or killed.

injured or killed. The game proceeded even though

The game proceeded even though some fans went to the hospital.

some fans went to the hospital. Many had bruised ribs.

Many had bruised ribs. And the police took the decision

And the police took the decision to allow them to sit quietly

to allow them to sit quietly around the perimeter track.

And the police indicated that had that not occurred there

had that not occurred there could have been deaths.

could have been deaths. And the response from the chair

And the response from the chair of the club was to say,

of the club was to say, that was a nonsense.

that was a nonsense. I think he used

I think he used the phrase bollocks.

Nobody would have died. That to me is a clear indication

That to me is a clear indication of how deep institutional

of how deep institutional complacency can run.

Despite all the warning signs of 1981, nothing was in the

1981, nothing was in the operational order to prepare

operational order to prepare police officers for what

police officers for what happened on the day

happened on the day at Hillsborough with

at Hillsborough with regards to safety.

Obviously first thing, there's nobody there first off.

there's nobody there first off. I expected it to be slow but

I expected it to be slow but it was extremely slow.

it was extremely slow. It was so slow that one of the

It was so slow that one of the turnstile operators remarked to

turnstile operators remarked to another he'd only had 74 people

another he'd only had 74 people through and he was so bored

through and he was so bored he'd worked out what rate they

he'd worked out what rate they got to come through at.

We got to the ground probably at about 1:30.

Liverpool fans were arriving.

There weren't that many there,

and we just started hunting around to see if we could find

around to see if we could find anybody who might want

anybody who might want to swap a ticket.

to swap a ticket. So, we sort of, we managed that

So, we sort of, we managed that pretty quickly, I think.

pretty quickly, I think. A guy was pretty pleased to get

A guy was pretty pleased to get two significantly more expensive

two significantly more expensive tickets in the stand and he

swapped those for a

pair of tickets for the

Leppings Lane Terrace.

We went through that turnstile at about 2:00 into that

at about 2:00 into that concourse behind the stand and

concourse behind the stand and then just saw the sign that

then just saw the sign that said, Standing, right in

said, Standing, right in the middle of the bottom

the middle of the bottom of that stand.

of that stand. There was only one place we were

There was only one place we were going and that sort of thrill

going and that sort of thrill you get as a football fan when

you get as a football fan when you go into the ground

you go into the ground and you get the first glimpse

and you get the first glimpse of the pitch.

You're going to see Liverpool play in the F.A. Cup Semifinal.

play in the F.A. Cup Semifinal. We were in and we were

We were in and we were right behind the goal.

It were like a good natured carnival atmosphere.

natured carnival atmosphere. It was a semifinal.

Saw one or two fans who were obviously, they'd have

were obviously, they'd have their drink, but they weren't,

their drink, but they weren't, you couldn't construe them

you couldn't construe them as being drunk for purposes

as being drunk for purposes looking out for drunkenness

looking out for drunkenness early or all like that.

early or all like that. And if they got a tin here out

And if they got a tin here out we made them either sip it up or

we made them either sip it up or pour it down a grate before they

pour it down a grate before they went in to ground.

We walked down towards the grounds and there was just a few

grounds and there was just a few people first of all and then it

people first of all and then it just built up and I was

just built up and I was surprised at the amount of

surprised at the amount of people that were walking

people that were walking towards the ground.

Didn't really see any visible police presence.

We were checking fans all coming through the turnstile,

through the turnstile, searching, they're all decent

searching, they're all decent people, good humored, sober,

people, good humored, sober, well behaved, well mannered,

well behaved, well mannered, very compliant, and it was a

very compliant, and it was a really good, good atmosphere.

And then it started to get

busier, and busier.

The attitudes seemed to change. It was about twenty past two,

It was about twenty past two, twenty five past two.

twenty five past two. Myself and a colleague detained

Myself and a colleague detained a lad who jumped through the

a lad who jumped through the turnstile without a ticket,

turnstile without a ticket, detained him, took him to the

detained him, took him to the police room, processed him

police room, processed him through there, and when we came

through there, and when we came back it was just mayhem.

We got there about twenty past and it was really busy outside.

and it was really busy outside. There was no

There was no real organization there.

real organization there. It was just a mass of people.

It was just a mass of people. There was no

There was no queuing or anything.

queuing or anything. The more we were watching it

The more we were watching it the less people seemed to

the less people seemed to be going into, there seems to

be going into, there seems to be anybody really going

be anybody really going through the turnstiles.

through the turnstiles. We thought the turnstiles

We thought the turnstiles must have been broken.

must have been broken. In a previous year we got

In a previous year we got there at the same time.

there at the same time. And we just, I don't remember

And we just, I don't remember any problems at all, we just

any problems at all, we just seemed to walk straight in.

At that time the Leppings Lane at Hillsborough was segregated

at Hillsborough was segregated into pens and the two central

into pens and the two central pens were behind the goal, were

pens were behind the goal, were quite busy, but the ones to the

quite busy, but the ones to the side were really empty.

You look at the Liverpool end to the right of the goal, there's

the right of the goal, there's hardly anybody on those steps.

hardly anybody on those steps. To the right of there,

To the right of there, that's it, look down there.

that's it, look down there. That's like some sort

That's like some sort of segregation for what

of segregation for what they call neutrals,

they call neutrals, who got their tickets

who got their tickets from Sheffield Wednesday.

from Sheffield Wednesday. That could be it, I suppose.

You could see all the concrete, you could see

you could see the crash barriers.

the crash barriers. If you could see concrete

If you could see concrete or you could see barriers,

or you could see barriers, you knew there was a lot

you knew there was a lot of spare capacity.

But the two central pens were quite busy.

It just kept on filling up and filling up.

up and filling up. And I said to Phil at one point

And I said to Phil at one point should we go down the front,

should we go down the front, because it's getting

because it's getting uncomfortable here?

We mulled it over for like five minutes.

for like five minutes. We were standing next

We were standing next to each other.

to each other. And then by about half two it

And then by about half two it just got more and more full to

just got more and more full to the point where we couldn't

the point where we couldn't have got down the front

have got down the front if we wanted to.

We all know that football fans love to get behind the goal.

love to get behind the goal. Soon that fills up and what

Soon that fills up and what you do is you work sideways

you do is you work sideways from there and you find

from there and you find your own level.

your own level. You'd always have the sway and

You'd always have the sway and the push and the shove, and all

the push and the shove, and all of the things we now know

of the things we now know that are so dangerous,

that are so dangerous, but that would be the way.

but that would be the way. You could go sideways if you

You could go sideways if you felt that you were being crushed

felt that you were being crushed you could move sideways.

you could move sideways. Once pens were introduced at

Once pens were introduced at Hillsborough in 1985 you

Hillsborough in 1985 you couldn't move sideways.

couldn't move sideways. You had to stay in

You had to stay in that confined area.

So, that idea that fans could go down that tunnel,

could go down that tunnel, into the backs of already

into the backs of already crowded fans, and then

crowded fans, and then somehow they could find their

somehow they could find their own level, is a nonsense because

own level, is a nonsense because there was nowhere to go.

The control box is right there at the corner of Leppings Lane.

It's above the terrace. Perfect view right down into the

Perfect view right down into the central pens and right across

central pens and right across the hold of the terrace.

the hold of the terrace. It's a very small box full of

It's a very small box full of monitors monitoring the crowd

monitors monitoring the crowd at all points.

at all points. In the control box you have

In the control box you have Chief Superintendent David

Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, you have his

Duckenfield, you have his assistant Bernard Murray.

assistant Bernard Murray. The only place where there is

The only place where there is relative silence and relative

relative silence and relative calm is in the control box.

Those officers inside the ground and outside the ground are

and outside the ground are dependent on the control

dependent on the control box for instructions.

box for instructions. This is the hub.

You can see right beneath them, right in their eye line, they

right in their eye line, they don't need monitors, you

don't need monitors, you can see this incredible

can see this incredible compression of bodies.

compression of bodies. So, you can already see at that

So, you can already see at that point prior to the disaster

point prior to the disaster occurring that the central

occurring that the central pens are packed tight.

Had some lunch in the gymnasium. And then there was like an

And then there was like an atmosphere started and you could

atmosphere started and you could see police would start looking

see police would start looking at the door, you're thinking,

at the door, you're thinking, what's going on?

what's going on? The atmosphere

The atmosphere started to build.

started to build. And everyone's like,

And everyone's like, let's go, where's my hat,

let's go, where's my hat, where's my helmet,

where's my helmet, where are my gloves?

You can tell people's tone of voice starts to creep up.

voice starts to creep up. You're thinking, that's not

You're thinking, that's not sounding too good.

sounding too good. I think we're getting ready to

I think we're getting ready to move and of course we were

move and of course we were deployed to Leppings Lane end.

There was a mass of people

in front of the ground.

Couldn't see any turnstiles at all.

The crowd builds up behind us so much so that we

us so much so that we were in a mass of people.

As soon as we came around that

corner you could see just a

press of people outside.

How are we going to get all these people in?

People are being forced through the turnstiles.

through the turnstiles. We were literally pulling people

We were literally pulling people through the turnstiles to get

through the turnstiles to get them out of the crush outside.

It was quite normal that a

message would be given that the kickoff is being delayed and

kickoff is being delayed and that can then be relayed

that can then be relayed to the fans outside.

to the fans outside. But there's no plan

But there's no plan to delay the kickoff.

You could hear on Sergeant Jake's radio the voices of

Jake's radio the voices of police officers getting more

police officers getting more and more frantic and when

and more frantic and when I say frantic, I mean frantic.

I say frantic, I mean frantic. You could tell...

...there was an element of fear in the voices.

Some poor lad just lost it. I remember this on the radio

I remember this on the radio saying, for fuck's sake,

saying, for fuck's sake, for fuck's sake, open

for fuck's sake, open these gates, if you don't open

these gates, if you don't open these gates people are going to

these gates people are going to die, for fuck's sake, please

die, for fuck's sake, please open these gates.

open these gates. I looked and said,

I looked and said, someone's swearing

someone's swearing on the radio.

on the radio. It didn't happen,

It didn't happen, you just didn't do it.

You would hope that people

would see what was happening

outside the ground. CCTV would have shown what was

CCTV would have shown what was happening outside the ground.

There seemed to be a big

gap, a big black hole, a big

nothingness coming from the

police control room. It was as if everybody

It was as if everybody had just frozen.

had just frozen. You're in a situation where the

You're in a situation where the pressure is so great that you're

pressure is so great that you're going to actually have injury

going to actually have injury and death outside the ground.

The police officer in charge outside the ground,

charge outside the ground, Superintendent Marshall

Superintendent Marshall realizes this.

realizes this. He phones through into the

He phones through into the ground to Duckenfield.

ground to Duckenfield. He can see what's happening

He can see what's happening outside the ground on his

outside the ground on his monitors and he's asked to open

exit gate C so that the fans who

are at the back of that crush

can be fed in to exit gate C,

therefore relieving the crush at

the turnstiles, preventing death

or injury as Marshall puts it,

outside of the stadium.

Duckenfield takes the decision. If this is what needs

If this is what needs to be done, so be it.

He orders the gate to be opened, and at that point, unstewarded,

and at that point, unstewarded, in come the fans.

We just went in with the crowd.

We were among the first 20 or 30 to actually go through the

to actually go through the gates that were opened.

Someone got tickets and was

saying, do you want to see

my ticket, and I said, no,

just get in, just get in.

The gate got opened.

So we then just walked, well actually paced through.

I said to me mates, because I was in the stands, so I was

I was in the stands, so I was in the wrong area, so I said

in the wrong area, so I said to them, I'll see you later.

to them, I'll see you later. Yeah, fine.

Yeah, fine. And I went one way and he

And I went one way and he went down the tunnel.

went down the tunnel. Foolishly we just went

Foolishly we just went for the tunnel really.

for the tunnel really. We just went straight

We just went straight down the tunnel.

down the tunnel. An open-mouthed tunnel,

An open-mouthed tunnel, nobody policing it.

nobody policing it. Previous years, thought it'd

Previous years, thought it'd been sealed when it appeared

been sealed when it appeared that the central pens were

that the central pens were full, but not this year.

I know that when you come through that gate you

through that gate you see that tunnel...

You certainly wouldn't think about going past the

think about going past the tunnel and into the other

tunnel and into the other entrance into the west end.

We were in red, they were all whites.

they were all whites. The pitch was as green

The pitch was as green as you've ever seen.

as you've ever seen. If you were to take a

If you were to take a snapshot of football at

snapshot of football at its most beautiful.

its most beautiful. That was that moment

That was that moment I just thought to myself,

I just thought to myself, this is great.

this is great. Football doesn't get

Football doesn't get any better than this.

So, on a clear, sunny day at Hillsborough, the stage is

Hillsborough, the stage is set for a rerun of

set for a rerun of last year's classic.

last year's classic. Liverpool in red,

Liverpool in red, Forest all in white.

Forest all in white. Stuart Pearce gives away

Stuart Pearce gives away the first free kick.

I had no idea that the game had even started.

game had even started. We were pushed forward very

We were pushed forward very quickly, just the momentum

quickly, just the momentum took us forward and there was

took us forward and there was a gap created behind us

a gap created behind us obviously from the momentum

obviously from the momentum that had come and Tracey

that had come and Tracey had fallen down.

I turned around and somebody picked her up.

somebody picked her up. I didn't see sight of Richard

I didn't see sight of Richard or Tracey after that.

or Tracey after that. By the time I stopped I was

By the time I stopped I was right near the front.

This panicked mass.

Nobody was watching the game.

There was a bit of a surge and

I got pushed onto a barrier.

It eased off a bit, and I turned around and I could see my dad

around and I could see my dad behind me and the last thing I

behind me and the last thing I said to him was, are you okay?

said to him was, are you okay? And he just said, yeah.

And he just said, yeah. Next thing, I was pushed again.

The pressure just got immensely worse.

got immensely worse. At the beginning I thought,

At the beginning I thought, oh it's going to, it'll ease

oh it's going to, it'll ease off again because it

off again because it always eases off.

always eases off. I've done this countless times.

I've done this countless times. But it just didn't

But it just didn't ease off at all.

ease off at all. It just got tighter and tighter.

The only recollection I have of the six minutes that was played

the six minutes that was played was Beardsley hit the bar.

Beardsley... Oh, he's hit the bar!

Oh, he's hit the bar! That was the moment it felt like

That was the moment it felt like the crowd sort of convulsed,

the crowd sort of convulsed, and then something went.

I felt very lightheaded. I felt like my

I felt like my vision was narrowing.

And you were hearing shouting about, hold him up, hold him up,

about, hold him up, hold him up, hold him up.

hold him up. I've got to get down.

I've got to get down. If I can get down

If I can get down I'll be alright.

I'll be alright. If it just eases off for a

If it just eases off for a second I'll get down

second I'll get down on the floor.

on the floor. And I thought,

And I thought, that's what I'll do.

that's what I'll do. And then I'm thinking to myself,

And then I'm thinking to myself, no, I'm dying here.

Eventually I passed out.

Nothing was being done.

These two or three police officers, whatever it was, were

officers, whatever it was, were just looking, telling this guy

just looking, telling this guy to get off the crash barrier.

to get off the crash barrier. This was unfolding within feet

This was unfolding within feet of where they were standing.

I presume that these guys had policed football matches

policed football matches many, many times before.

Which says it all about how the police saw football

the police saw football fans at that time.

There are fans on the pitch here in the six yard area,

here in the six yard area, The referee is gonna

The referee is gonna have to stop the game.

have to stop the game. There's an overflow behind the

There's an overflow behind the goal and the police inspector

goal and the police inspector is on the pitch.

And they've come through the barriers.

I can only thinkiers. that's an overcrowding.

that's an overcrowding. It doesn't look to me to be

It doesn't look to me to be any sort of misbehavior.

More police are being called for.

being called for. Reinforcements are coming from

Reinforcements are coming from the Forest end now to

the Forest end now to attend to this problem.

attend to this problem. As we got to the corner of the

As we got to the corner of the pitch the center pen looked

pitch the center pen looked absolutely crammed and I could

absolutely crammed and I could see there's too many people

see there's too many people in those middle two pens.

in those middle two pens. Then it was obvious there

Then it was obvious there was too many people.

This is going tits up. It's not a pitch invasion, it's

It's not a pitch invasion, it's not public order, it is people

not public order, it is people dying and in distress.

dying and in distress. So, I open the pen.

Just carried on screaming and then all of the sudden I just

then all of the sudden I just heard somebody say, come through

heard somebody say, come through here, or, come here love, or,

here, or, come here love, or, and I was literally sort of

and I was literally sort of grabbed, sort of pulled.

And I found myself on the pitch with a camera on my face.

It was just a lot of fractured sort of breathing and people

sort of breathing and people rasping and people shouting and

rasping and people shouting and a rising tide of panic,

a rising tide of panic, and anguish, and anger.

[ yelling ]

I stood at the fence looking into the ground,

looking into the ground, but I was looking long

but I was looking long sighted and there was a police

sighted and there was a police officer next to me.

officer next to me. We were just looking around and

We were just looking around and he said, he's a goner, and he

he said, he's a goner, and he pointed in front of him and to

pointed in front of him and to my shock, about three foot in

my shock, about three foot in front of me was this lad.

It was like looking at fish in a throwing net.

People were so crushed that you couldn't see the full

you couldn't see the full person if you like.

person if you like. And that was just something that

And that was just something that will haunt me forever really.

will haunt me forever really. All I could see was his

All I could see was his shoulders and his face and his

shoulders and his face and his face was deep purple...

...and he wasn't breathing. I don't think he was.

I don't think he was. And I thought, he's, oh my god,

And I thought, he's, oh my god, you know, this is...

I just instantly... this isn't happening.

And I noticed there was just bodies everywhere.

just bodies everywhere. A sea at the front of bodies.

It was seeing that you know broken, crumpled pile of people

broken, crumpled pile of people and I just thought, Jesus.

and I just thought, Jesus. You know, this isn't one or two.

You know, this isn't one or two. This is a lot of people.

I looked over my left shoulder and I thought, I'm not doing

and I thought, I'm not doing anything good here.

anything good here. You could see that nobody could

You could see that nobody could get in through the gates that

get in through the gates that were in front of those two pens.

But when I looked across to my right I could see

to my right I could see Sergeant Green, who was one

Sergeant Green, who was one of my sergeants at the time,

of my sergeants at the time, hoisted a gate.

So, I thought, if I go in there I can just run along and get

I can just run along and get into the pen.

into the pen. Got in, but I couldn't

Got in, but I couldn't understand why these people

understand why these people weren't moving towards me.

weren't moving towards me. It was actually six foot

It was actually six foot high spike rail fences

high spike rail fences between the pens.

between the pens. No wonder people can't move.

And I thought, well stupid thing having a spike fence.

thing having a spike fence. But I thought, I've got to

But I thought, I've got to get over that fence.

get over that fence. So, I jumped in.

It was like spaghetti. They were tangled up and I just

They were tangled up and I just kept trying to rescue people,

kept trying to rescue people, get them out.

get them out. You see the same socks on,

You see the same socks on, well that's going to

well that's going to be somebody's legs.

be somebody's legs. So you try to pull them out, but

So you try to pull them out, but you can't pull them out because

you can't pull them out because their arm's wrapped around

their arm's wrapped around somebody else's leg.

somebody else's leg. You'd feel for a pulse, but the

You'd feel for a pulse, but the tongues were so black and

tongues were so black and swollen I thought, struggling to

swollen I thought, struggling to get any air in there.

get any air in there. You'd see blue eyes were glazed.

You'd see blue eyes were glazed. By this time you could see

By this time you could see people were starting to be taken

people were starting to be taken onto the pitch.

onto the pitch. But I thought, they're starting

But I thought, they're starting to get their act together

to get their act together and starting to

and starting to treat people outside.

treat people outside. So, I get over as fast as you

So, I get over as fast as you can and we were just

can and we were just pulling people out.

pulling people out. When I'd come to it had all

When I'd come to it had all eased off around me quite a bit

eased off around me quite a bit and I remember some fellow

and I remember some fellow saying, don't go down there,

saying, don't go down there, get up off the floor.

get up off the floor. So I got up, and as I turned

So I got up, and as I turned around I could see people

around I could see people getting hoisted up into the

getting hoisted up into the stand, and I didn't know -

stand, and I didn't know - all I thought was, just get out

all I thought was, just get out of here, I've just got to

of here, I've just got to get out of here.

get out of here. So, I put my hands up, and my

So, I put my hands up, and my right arm wouldn't move

right arm wouldn't move I'd crushed my right arm.

I'd crushed my right arm. I got pulled up

I got pulled up just by my left arm.

I could see people pulling at the barriers, and

at the barriers, and there's police, and people

there's police, and people on the pitch.

on the pitch. You could see all

You could see all sorts going on.

sorts going on. I've got to find my dad

I've got to find my dad because he's going to be

because he's going to be worrying for me.

worrying for me. How is he?

How is he? Worrying about how he was, but

Worrying about how he was, but I thought, he's going to be

I thought, he's going to be worrying where I am, I'm still,

worrying where I am, I'm still, if I'm up here he's going to be

if I'm up here he's going to be looking everywhere for me.

looking everywhere for me. There was this big chap that

There was this big chap that was being helped out, and

was being helped out, and he's unconscious at least.

he's unconscious at least. I really was the only

I really was the only officer there, so I lifted

officer there, so I lifted his T-shirt up.

his T-shirt up. I put my ear to his chest,

I put my ear to his chest, couldn't hear anything.

couldn't hear anything. I think a St. John ambulance

I think a St. John ambulance chap came up and looked in his

chap came up and looked in his eyes and he said, he's dead.

eyes and he said, he's dead. And so, I just lifted his

And so, I just lifted his T-shirt over his face.

There was a big guy, he had a red shirt on, and he pulled it

red shirt on, and he pulled it over his head and at

over his head and at that point you realize,

that point you realize, oh geez, he's dead.

oh geez, he's dead. Everyone around me was like,

Everyone around me was like, no one's dead, no one.

no one's dead, no one. You know, because no

You know, because no one wanted to believe,

one wanted to believe, everyone was in denial.

I'd done some CPR training. I thought, well I'll go around

I thought, well I'll go around and see whether I can help.

and see whether I can help. I made a way out I was just

I made a way out I was just totally on my own, because

totally on my own, because obviously everybody else was

obviously everybody else was focused on what was going

focused on what was going on down below.

As I walked down the steps, just as I got to the bottom

just as I got to the bottom of the steps I could see my

of the steps I could see my dad lying on the floor.

My dad was outside the ground in like a concourse area.

in like a concourse area. There must have been another ten

There must have been another ten bodies that were just

bodies that were just all lying there.

all lying there. They're all covered over, but my

They're all covered over, but my dad had a tattoo on his arm, and

dad had a tattoo on his arm, and I'd recognize him straight away.

Next thing I know there's a big crowd of police all around me.

crowd of police all around me. It was surreal.

It was surreal. A line of police.

A line of police. I don't know, forty, sixty, and

I don't know, forty, sixty, and then there was people lying on

then there was people lying on the floor and that's where

the floor and that's where I realized they were dead.

The police were just standing there.

just standing there. I mean why would you

I mean why would you just stand there?

just stand there? And so, I went up to one

And so, I went up to one of the police and I said,

of the police and I said, what's going on?

what's going on? I said, why aren't

I said, why aren't you doing something?

you doing something? And he just sort of looked

And he just sort of looked straight at me.

straight at me. And I says, how many, how many?

And I says, how many, how many? And he started sobbing.

I got, I just, I really panicked badly and ran away as fast as

badly and ran away as fast as I could from the ground.

Rowe was shouting to me in the kitchen, Marc, he's had this

kitchen, Marc, he's had this trouble at Hillsborough.

trouble at Hillsborough. And I'm just kind of doing

And I'm just kind of doing the sandwiches, and I was

the sandwiches, and I was all, where's Hillsborough?

all, where's Hillsborough? So, I said,

So, I said, where's Hillsborough?

where's Hillsborough? She said, isn't that where

She said, isn't that where our Jimmy is, and James?

our Jimmy is, and James? I said, no, they've

I said, no, they've gone to Sheffield.

gone to Sheffield. She said, Marc,

She said, Marc, this is where the

this is where the trouble is, Sheffield.

trouble is, Sheffield. I said, you've just

I said, you've just told me Hillsborough.

told me Hillsborough. She said, that's the ground.

Now, one has to say that that is a segregated

that that is a segregated part of the ground,

part of the ground, the Leppings Lane Terrace.

the Leppings Lane Terrace. Liverpool supporters occupying

Liverpool supporters occupying it and I can only assume that

it and I can only assume that there was overcrowding and

there was overcrowding and as they tried to come out from

as they tried to come out from behind the barriers, people at

behind the barriers, people at the front were crushed.

I was really upset. All I knew, my three

All I knew, my three were in there.

were in there. There are an enormous number of

There are an enormous number of police there but they clearly

police there but they clearly haven't sorted out the number

haven't sorted out the number of people who can't seem to

of people who can't seem to find any space.

find any space. I immediately rang Les

I immediately rang Les who was in work.

who was in work. I asked him had he been watching

I asked him had he been watching what was going on in Sheffield

what was going on in Sheffield on the television, he said yes.

on the television, he said yes. I wasn't too worried because

I wasn't too worried because Richard would never take the

Richard would never take the girls down the front.

Just watching the screen, and I saw these people getting laid,

saw these people getting laid, people laid on the pitch and

people laid on the pitch and I thought I saw James.

And we sit at home, switched everything off and the minute

everything off and the minute Les was home, we were

Les was home, we were leaving for Sheffield.

People were getting pulled out on the pitch.

And I literally just stood there and just cried.

there and just cried. I didn't know what to do,

I didn't know what to do, didn't know what to think.

In the back of my mind I was always worried about Tracey

always worried about Tracey because she'd fallen down.

because she'd fallen down. And I thought, she's small,

And I thought, she's small, she's more petite.

she's more petite. But Richard was stocky,

But Richard was stocky, he was tall, he was a big lad.

he was tall, he was a big lad. And I never once thought

And I never once thought that anything would be

that anything would be wrong with him.

wrong with him. I thought that if I've got

I thought that if I've got out he would get out.

out he would get out. But I was

But I was concerned about Tracey.

It's pretty clear that there is no order coming from

is no order coming from the control box.

the control box. Intuitively it should have been

Intuitively it should have been obvious that what was happening

obvious that what was happening was crushing and a safety

was crushing and a safety problem, and trying to

problem, and trying to get people out.

What happens then, the control box is visited by Graham Kelly

box is visited by Graham Kelly from the football association

from the football association along with his assistant, and

along with his assistant, and for whatever reason, in the heat

for whatever reason, in the heat of the moment David Duckenfield

of the moment David Duckenfield tells him that there has been an

tells him that there has been an inrush of Liverpool fans forcing

inrush of Liverpool fans forcing entry through an exit gate into

entry through an exit gate into the stadium and down the tunnel.

the stadium and down the tunnel. At that moment the person who is

At that moment the person who is ultimately responsible for the

ultimately responsible for the hiring of the stadium is told

hiring of the stadium is told unequivocally that Liverpool

unequivocally that Liverpool fans have caused the disaster by

fans have caused the disaster by violent access to the ground.

violent access to the ground. That's the message that within

That's the message that within minutes, even before the bodies

minutes, even before the bodies are pulled out of pen 3,

are pulled out of pen 3, the world knows that the

the world knows that the responsibility for Hillsborough

responsibility for Hillsborough lies in the actions

lies in the actions of Liverpool fans.

I've got an explanation for what's happened here.

for what's happened here. I'm gonna give you a line.

I'm gonna give you a line. The story emerges that one of

The story emerges that one of the outside gates leading into

the outside gates leading into that terrace was broken, people

that terrace was broken, people without tickets got in, were

without tickets got in, were therefore overcrowding the

therefore overcrowding the people with tickets and that's

people with tickets and that's why the crush occurred.

The lie that this is, when Duckenfield knows that he

Duckenfield knows that he ordered, agreed to the

ordered, agreed to the opening of gate C,

opening of gate C, the lie becomes defining.

It becomes the defining moment of the first phase of building a

of the first phase of building a case against Liverpool fans, who

case against Liverpool fans, who from this moment onwards are

from this moment onwards are discredited in their actions as

discredited in their actions as coming to the ground without

coming to the ground without tickets, forcing entry,

tickets, forcing entry, being violent, being drunk.

That whole process then feeds the myth.

feeds the myth. The myth begins with the lie.

All emergency planning procedures have a core

procedures have a core element, which is the

element, which is the declaration of emergency.

It is clear that no emergency plan was put into operation.

plan was put into operation. Everything that happens from

Everything that happens from there on is ad hoc, but if you

there on is ad hoc, but if you don't have an emergency response

don't have an emergency response plan, that's when you have an

plan, that's when you have an ambulance coming on the pitch,

another ambulance coming on

the pitch, ambulances arriving

outside backing up right

of Peniston Road.

They can't get past each other. You have ambulance officers

You have ambulance officers leaving their vehicles but

leaving their vehicles but not leaving their keys,

not leaving their keys, so you've got them boxed in,

so you've got them boxed in, at the same time, you've

at the same time, you've not got people coming

not got people coming with stretchers, or people

with stretchers, or people coming with defibrillators,

coming with defibrillators, or any other of the

or any other of the standard processes that we would

standard processes that we would operate in terms of emergency.

The fact that no emergency is declared in a situation where

declared in a situation where people have only got a limited

people have only got a limited time to be saved is an important

time to be saved is an important element of the whole process.

Don't be looking at them! You want to look at the fucking

You want to look at the fucking police who are doing fuck all!

I remember going into ground, no sooner I'd be rushed into

no sooner I'd be rushed into ground, then we got pulled

ground, then we got pulled straight back out again.

straight back out again. I just remember like

I just remember like there being carnage.

We had to go to help get ambulances in.

Police officers' immediate response is to do

response is to do as they're told.

Their instruction is to place a cordon across the pitch so that

cordon across the pitch so that Nottingham Forest fans who might

Nottingham Forest fans who might interpret what's happening

interpret what's happening as hooliganism don't come

as hooliganism don't come onto the pitch.

That gives the appearance that the police officers

that the police officers are caught in the headlights,

are caught in the headlights, that they're doing nothing,

that they're doing nothing, but that's their order,

but that's their order, that's what they're doing.

Some police officers who are not in that cordon who actually

in that cordon who actually had responsibility for that

had responsibility for that end, they are actually

end, they are actually trying to rescue.

trying to rescue. But the majority of people who

But the majority of people who are involved in the rescue are

are involved in the rescue are the fans who have managed to

the fans who have managed to escape the pens, who then

escape the pens, who then realize there are no stretchers,

realize there are no stretchers, there's no emergency procedure,

there's no emergency procedure, they become the emergency

they become the emergency helpers along with

helpers along with some police officers.

some police officers. I came out on to the pitch,

I came out on to the pitch, a bloke came up to me and

a bloke came up to me and pointed to somebody on the

pointed to somebody on the ground and I thought,

ground and I thought, I'm gonna make him live.

I'm gonna make him live. He's gonna stay alive.

He's gonna stay alive. I think an ambulance man came

I think an ambulance man came across to me and said I think

across to me and said I think we can get this one.

we can get this one. So, we just grabbed him, put him

So, we just grabbed him, put him in the back of the ambulance.

I do remember we picked up a police motor bike escort

a police motor bike escort and we just headed to the

and we just headed to the Northern General Hospital.

Got to Northern General, the staff were already waiting.

the staff were already waiting. They got the gurney's

They got the gurney's out, lined up.

Doctor with the pulse, eye tests, things like that

eye tests, things like that and said, Afraid this

and said, Afraid this gentleman's not made it.

That devastated me because I've never had somebody die literally

never had somebody die literally in my arms before.

I went down to the gymnasium...

...and there were just these lines...

...and lines of dead people.

Young people.

They were using the gymnasium as a temporary mortuary.

I've seen some sights in my life, but I've not seen anything

life, but I've not seen anything like that ever.

[ phone rings ]

I do remember getting a call from Terri, my mother in law,

from Terri, my mother in law, pointing out to us that

pointing out to us that something was going on in

something was going on in Sheffield and she was very

Sheffield and she was very distressed because Andrew

distressed because Andrew had gone over there.

It became obvious the longer it

went on that the only way

we were going to get any information at all was to

information at all was to actually go over there.

We headed off on the Snake Pass and it was never ending.

First you were talking all the time, but then all conversation

time, but then all conversation just petered out and you just

just petered out and you just couldn't wait to get there.

It was a horrendous drive up there, it was and Doreen was

there, it was and Doreen was going on in the background of

going on in the background of course, what do you think,

course, what do you think, and all this.

I was absolutely convinced by this time that there was no way

this time that there was no way he would have left Stephanie on

he would have left Stephanie on her own unless there was

her own unless there was something seriously happened and

something seriously happened and I was hoping he was going

I was hoping he was going to be in a hospital.

to be in a hospital. That was my best hope for him.

But I was already assuming he was dead and I was driving

he was dead and I was driving through wondering how the hell

through wondering how the hell are we going to get through

are we going to get through this, you know?

We were told to stand down and sit in the north stand looking

sit in the north stand looking at this scene of carnage at

at this scene of carnage at Leppings Lane, which is just

Leppings Lane, which is just a few feet away.

We heard that there were confirmed 80 plus dead.

You know, police officer you're supposed to, your primary

supposed to, your primary duty is to protect life.

Not catch villains. Your primary duty is to protect

Your primary duty is to protect life and there were all these

life and there were all these dead people there.

Chaos broke out 5 minutes after the game started when the force

the game started when the force of people in the Leppings Lane

of people in the Leppings Lane end of the ground forced fans o

end of the ground forced fans o climb the barriers on to the

climb the barriers on to the pitch to escape being crushed.

pitch to escape being crushed. The match was...

The match was... Early on was just a nightmare.

I saw a man having his chest pumped to try to save his life.

pumped to try to save his life. As you were going along

As you were going along the numbers just kept

the numbers just kept going up and up.

going up and up. You know, every time it went up

You know, every time it went up everyone would just groan.

everyone would just groan. ...an off duty policeman

...an off duty policeman to get to the ground.

to get to the ground. The unofficial death

The unofficial death toll here is 74.

You just couldn't get home fast enough and by the time we got

enough and by the time we got back to Liverpool we were just

back to Liverpool we were just in a state of real shock.

In the chaos of Hillsborough, the coroner Stefan Popper is

the coroner Stefan Popper is called and he decides he's going

called and he decides he's going to attend the stadium where he

to attend the stadium where he knows the majority of bodies

knows the majority of bodies are being held.

are being held. He meets up with Professor Alan

He meets up with Professor Alan Usher, one of the country's

Usher, one of the country's leading pathologists who happens

leading pathologists who happens to be based in Sheffield.

The coroner's hearing as is the pathologist,

as is the pathologist, the stories of the lie.

the stories of the lie. They can't be impervious

They can't be impervious to that, it's on the news by

to that, it's on the news by now and part of that

now and part of that story is drunkenness.

And according to the coroner he makes a decision at that moment

makes a decision at that moment that he's going to take the

that he's going to take the blood alcohol levels of all who

blood alcohol levels of all who died including the children.

died including the children. Because he says, he assumed

Because he says, he assumed that this would be

that this would be an important factor.

This is the first time it's ever happened in a disaster.

ever happened in a disaster. Yes, you would take blood

Yes, you would take blood alcohol levels of a pilot in

alcohol levels of a pilot in a plane crash or a train driver

a plane crash or a train driver in a train crash or even people

in a train crash or even people driving cars, but the idea that

driving cars, but the idea that you'd take the blood alcohol

you'd take the blood alcohol levels of all people

levels of all people is absolutely unprecedented.

is absolutely unprecedented. The pathologist agrees to

The pathologist agrees to this and that is the first

this and that is the first establishment of the notion that

establishment of the notion that alcohol played a significant

alcohol played a significant part in Hillsborough.

We all went down to Lime Street Station to get James.

Street Station to get James. You're standing there and you're

You're standing there and you're waiting and you see the coaches

waiting and you see the coaches coming in and you just can't

coming in and you just can't wait to go to your son.

wait to go to your son. And the first coach come in,

And the first coach come in, poor people were getting off

poor people were getting off there, they were in

there, they were in a terrible mess.

a terrible mess. I thought, he's not on that one

I thought, he's not on that one so, I said to the driver,

so, I said to the driver, how many more coming he said,

how many more coming he said, oh, there's a few more

oh, there's a few more to come in.

Next one come in...

...no James.

We waited until the very last one...

And I thought, he's got to be on this one,

got to be on this one, he's got to be on this one.

he's got to be on this one. I was just ready to hug him.

I was just ready to hug him. I was desperate to hug

I was desperate to hug him and love him.

But the passengers got off there and I thought, Where is he?

Terry, Colin, and myself were shown to a hut.

It was the most tangible form of suffering of human beings

of suffering of human beings that I could imagine.

The atmosphere in that boys club was appalling.

Everybody in there was looking for somebody.

I was basically thinking they're going to take me to a hospital

going to take me to a hospital and I'm going to find out that

and I'm going to find out that Rick's injured, and I'll be able

Rick's injured, and I'll be able to sit with him.

to sit with him. And it must have been getting to

And it must have been getting to midnight and the room

midnight and the room was slowly filling up with

was slowly filling up with priests and vicars.

priests and vicars. There was more dark colors

There was more dark colors than there was people.

It must have been half one o'clock to two in the morning.

o'clock to two in the morning. A policeman came in, he stood on

A policeman came in, he stood on a chair and he said that we were

a chair and he said that we were going to be taken back to the

going to be taken back to the football ground and we were

football ground and we were going to look at photographs.

We all got on a double decker bus and it was freezing

bus and it was freezing cold as well.

cold as well. It'd been so nice,

It'd been so nice, we were so cold.

I was pushing and pulling Leslie and asking him why.

Leslie and asking him why. Why are we going to

Why are we going to the football ground?

the football ground? Why aren't we going

Why aren't we going to the hospital?

Because Leslie knew.

We were taken into another room and told to stand there,

room and told to stand there, and we would be called in.

They wanted to just take my dad through I think but my mom said

through I think but my mom said she had to go with him.

she had to go with him. They told me I couldn't come so

They told me I couldn't come so I stayed with the social worker

I stayed with the social worker outside while they went in

outside while they went in to view the photographs.

to view the photographs. And there was loads of them.

Photographs, Polaroid's. Small.

Very hard to see. Not split in any race, or color,

Not split in any race, or color, or sex, or age, nothing.

And I said, are they all dead?

And somebody nodded their head. And we went down, and down, and

And we went down, and down, and down, down these photographs.

And fairly soon into that process I thought what

process I thought what I saw in front of me was a

I saw in front of me was a picture of Andrew.

I collapsed.

To be honest I didn't even recognize Tracey from the

recognize Tracey from the photographs because her face

photographs because her face was so black and bruised.

was so black and bruised. I didn't even recognize her,

I didn't even recognize her, but I recognized Richard.

Without another word being said, two trolleys were brought in

two trolleys were brought in and there was body bags

and there was body bags on the trolleys.

Leslie nodded his head.

They wheeled his body up on a trolley.

up on a trolley. He was a mess...

...and I touched his face.

I went to bend down to cuddle him.

I wasn't allowed to. They said he was the

They said he was the property of the coroner.

I brought him into the world, I needed to see him out...

...and I wanted to cuddle him. I didn't say goodbye.

I didn't say goodbye. I needed to, I needed that.

I needed to, I needed that. That was me that needed that.

I don't think they were gone that long really and

gone that long really and they came back.

they came back. I mean I knew from their face

I mean I knew from their face and I just said, both of them?

and I just said, both of them? He said, yeah.

That was that.

My mom was a wreck after the initial, both of them.

the initial, both of them. I don't know that I went quite

I don't know that I went quite calm really to be honest when

calm really to be honest when the police officer said that we

the police officer said that we had to give a statement.

So, you and your brother went to pub, you say?

A lot of the questions were about drink.

were about drink. Had me mom and dad had

Had me mom and dad had a drink on the way to

a drink on the way to Sheffield to come to me?

Sheffield to come to me? Had I had a drink before

Had I had a drink before I went to the game?

I went to the game? Had we had a drink

Had we had a drink the night before?

the night before? And I was going, well yeah,

And I was going, well yeah, yeah, I had a half a cider

yeah, I had a half a cider at the pub today.

We had a couple of ciders last night.

of ciders last night. I'm thinking, why am

I'm thinking, why am I stating this?

And all the time he was tap, tap, tap with his pen.

When Terry was asked, did he smoke, she said no.

did he smoke, she said no. Did he drink?

Did he drink? She said no.

She said no. The next comment from the police

The next comment from the police actually was, he'll be telling

actually was, he'll be telling us he was a virgin next.

us he was a virgin next. And this unflappable

And this unflappable woman that was my mother

woman that was my mother in law was flummoxed.

in law was flummoxed. She could not respond to that.

She could not respond to that. When I was giving my statement

When I was giving my statement and they were asking me

and they were asking me about drinking I said,

about drinking I said, you opened the gates you know.

you opened the gates you know. I said, it was down to you.

I said, it was down to you. I was making sure

I was making sure they knew that.

they knew that. But they weren't really

But they weren't really interested in that when

interested in that when I was telling them.

Why are they attacking me? Why are they

Why are they attacking my family?

attacking my family? None of the family have

None of the family have done anything wrong.

done anything wrong. It was quite calculating.

It was quite calculating. Everybody was going through

Everybody was going through the same thing and it

the same thing and it was just a process.

was just a process. Let's get this done as

Let's get this done as quickly as possible.

quickly as possible. Done and dusted with these

Done and dusted with these statements, then we've had it.

statements, then we've had it. We can say what it's

We can say what it's all about tomorrow.

all about tomorrow. It's all about the drink.

It was clear that he was under immense pressure to have an

immense pressure to have an initial report out which gave

initial report out which gave some indication of what had

some indication of what had happened at Hillsborough.

I welcome the inquiry which is about to take place in which

about to take place in which will undoubtedly reveal the

will undoubtedly reveal the true nature and cause of

true nature and cause of this terrible tragedy.

this terrible tragedy. I believe that when it's

I believe that when it's completed, the actions of the

completed, the actions of the South Yorkshire Police will be

South Yorkshire Police will be seen in a very different light.

After the Hillsborough tragedy, we hear in many of today's

we hear in many of today's newspapers that the police

newspapers that the police have criticized the behavior

have criticized the behavior of Liverpool fans.

Police have claimed that drunken Liverpool football fans attacked

Liverpool football fans attacked them as they tried

them as they tried to help victims of

to help victims of the Hillsborough disaster.

the Hillsborough disaster. They say they were kicked,

They say they were kicked, punched and urinated on.

A lot of the fans, many, many hundreds of them outside

hundreds of them outside that gate had been

that gate had been drinking very heavily.

drinking very heavily. People were, I use

People were, I use the expression drunk.

the expression drunk. They used a better

They used a better descriptive word about it.

descriptive word about it. The arrived very late.

The arrived very late. Only a few minutes before the

Only a few minutes before the game is due to start, 500 plus

game is due to start, 500 plus were there without any tickets

were there without any tickets and they were pushing and

and they were pushing and crushing and very, very strong

crushing and very, very strong and the police officers there

and the police officers there were virtually overwhelmed.

were virtually overwhelmed. People were actually

People were actually lifting the police horse.

lifting the police horse. And they're diving into

And they're diving into the bellies of police horses...

the bellies of police horses... Between each legs.

Between each legs. Now, anybody who does that

Now, anybody who does that I don't care what other

I don't care what other people say, they're either

people say, they're either mental or they're drunk.

mental or they're drunk. He said that they were urinated

He said that they were urinated on by people who were in

on by people who were in the balconies above them.

the balconies above them. He said they were kicked

He said they were kicked whilst they were giving mouth

whilst they were giving mouth to mouth resuscitation.

to mouth resuscitation. And all I've said to you is

And all I've said to you is honestly what was reported to me

honestly what was reported to me by the officers on the

by the officers on the ground that night.

ground that night. That happened to me on Saturday

That happened to me on Saturday and since then this story,

and since then this story, other people have added to it,

other people have added to it, but it is a fact.

but it is a fact. So, I have to accept that

So, I have to accept that what they were telling me

what they were telling me was the truth.

Here's the question I've always asked people when they've asked

asked people when they've asked me about the stealing from the

me about the stealing from the dead, the urinating on the

dead, the urinating on the police and all that, I would say

police and all that, I would say to them, would you do it?

to them, would you do it? And no one's ever said yeah, and

And no one's ever said yeah, and they all go, no, and so then why

they all go, no, and so then why would you believe I did it?

Why? And if you're a journalist, why?

And if you're a journalist, why? That's the first question

That's the first question you've got to ask.

you've got to ask. Would I do it?

Would I do it? Mmm, no.

I'm really glad that my name never appeared on a story

never appeared on a story suggesting that happened

suggesting that happened for two reasons.

for two reasons. One, it didn't happen,

One, it didn't happen, and two, can anybody ever

and two, can anybody ever really think that when

really think that when somebody's giving CPR to

somebody's giving CPR to somebody on a football field,

somebody on a football field, that somebody would go

that somebody would go and urinate on the back

and urinate on the back of a policeman?

of a policeman? I remember at the time

I remember at the time thinking, that's nuts.

You're led, you've got a fight ahead of you.

fight ahead of you. I think the families

I think the families realized that more or less

realized that more or less from, straight away.

They were drunken hooligans that came through the gate and killed

came through the gate and killed their own and really that was

their own and really that was like a red rag to a bull to me

like a red rag to a bull to me because my son loved life.

because my son loved life. He didn't drink a lot.

He didn't drink a lot. He was well educated.

He was no drunken hooligan.

People do think that. They think that the people who

They think that the people who came in through that open gate

came in through that open gate killed the people at the front.

killed the people at the front. But that's not true.

But that's not true. Three of us came in

Three of us came in and only I came home.

We were asked an officer's report first.

officer's report first. That is, what do you

That is, what do you remember of the day?

remember of the day? A lot of people put

A lot of people put whatever they want in it.

whatever they want in it. They're trying to express what

They're trying to express what we're feeling at the time,

we're feeling at the time, what the people's moods were,

what the people's moods were, things like that.

I said what I did and I put in what I thought was relevant.

what I thought was relevant. The lack of radios, the lack of

The lack of radios, the lack of command structure, the fact

command structure, the fact that we seemed to be seriously

that we seemed to be seriously undermanned for the job

undermanned for the job we were expected to do.

Signed it, submitted it, and that was it.

That was the end of it with me.

My position was a senior scientific officer

a senior scientific officer within the mechanical

within the mechanical engineering department.

We were called in to look at various aspects including the

various aspects including the turnstiles, how they operated,

turnstiles, how they operated, how accurate they were, and what

how accurate they were, and what turnstiles were allocated to

turnstiles were allocated to different parts of the ground.

We were just looking at the numbers.

at the numbers. We weren't looking

We weren't looking at how people behaved.

What we found was that the fans from Liverpool had to

fans from Liverpool had to go through a far fewer

go through a far fewer number of turnstiles.

which shows that from about

10 past 2, they were coming

at a fairly constant rate.

Having seen the number of

turnstiles it was fairly obvious

that crowds would build up and they wouldn't all get in

and they wouldn't all get in the ground on time.

We looked at the influx of spectators through gate C,

spectators through gate C, the figure we came up

the figure we came up with was about 1,800.

The main conclusion was there weren't thousands of ticketless

weren't thousands of ticketless fans because our total count for

fans because our total count for gate C in the turnstiles was not

gate C in the turnstiles was not dissimilar from the capacity

dissimilar from the capacity of the western terraces.

Lord Justice Taylor today presented his interim report

presented his interim report just three months after

just three months after starting his inquiry.

starting his inquiry. The actions of the police

The actions of the police are severely criticized

are severely criticized in the report.

in the report. In fact, it says the main

In fact, it says the main reason for the disaster was

reason for the disaster was failure of police control.

On an individual basis, the actions of most police officers

actions of most police officers inside the ground is praised as

inside the ground is praised as heroic in ghastly circumstance.

The harshest words in the report are reserved

the report are reserved for chief superintendent

for chief superintendent David Duckenfield, the senior

David Duckenfield, the senior officer present who has been

officer present who has been suspended on full pay.

suspended on full pay. It talks of his failure to

It talks of his failure to take effective control of

take effective control of the disaster situation.

the disaster situation. He froze.

He froze. The thing about

The thing about David Duckenfield is that he

David Duckenfield is that he wouldn't wanted to have frozen.

wouldn't wanted to have frozen. He froze because it

He froze because it was a human reaction.

was a human reaction. The trouble is, if you're paid

The trouble is, if you're paid to be a chief superintendent

to be a chief superintendent then you're not paid to freeze.

then you're not paid to freeze. You've got to immediately

You've got to immediately act decisively to save lives.

act decisively to save lives. He didn't.

He didn't. So, was he the right

So, was he the right man for the job?

man for the job? Clearly not.

The report says the officers lack leadership and as it

lack leadership and as it examines the disaster stage by

examines the disaster stage by stage, it finds faults with the

stage, it finds faults with the decisions or lack of decisions

decisions or lack of decisions taken by South Yorkshire Polic.

taken by South Yorkshire Polic. In fact, sections of the report

In fact, sections of the report are titled Lack of Effective

are titled Lack of Effective Monitoring, Blunder on

Monitoring, Blunder on Opening the Gates and the

Opening the Gates and the Crushing Not Recognized.

To me that was Taylor seeing through the way in which the

through the way in which the South Yorkshire Police had tried

South Yorkshire Police had tried to manipulate the story.

Taylor said the fans weren't to blame.

weren't to blame. Drink played no part

Drink played no part in that disaster.

Yet I think families felt somebody's got to be

somebody's got to be held responsible for this.

Didn't happen.

Didn't happen, did it?

The coroner has absolute independence.

absolute independence. Nobody tells the coroner what

Nobody tells the coroner what the coroner should do and it's

the coroner should do and it's decided by the coroner that

decided by the coroner that he's going to introduce a

he's going to introduce a cutoff of 3:15 on all evidence.

What that meant was anybody who died after 3:15, if there were

died after 3:15, if there were any other factors that might

any other factors that might have influenced the death,

have influenced the death, that really wouldn't be

that really wouldn't be taken into consideration.

taken into consideration. There was no absolute

There was no absolute science about that at all.

science about that at all. There was a lot of taking advice

There was a lot of taking advice from different sources, making

from different sources, making his mind up on the hoof, being

his mind up on the hoof, being influenced by senior police

influenced by senior police officers who were carrying

officers who were carrying out the investigation,

out the investigation, West Midlands police officers.

West Midlands police officers. It's clear that there's

It's clear that there's somebody here struggling.

One of the concerns has also been the amount of alcohol

been the amount of alcohol that was being consumed prior

that was being consumed prior to the match.

to the match. The indications are there wasn't

The indications are there wasn't a lot taken in to the ground.

a lot taken in to the ground. We did find 300 cans, I think we

We did find 300 cans, I think we counted, on the concourse, on

counted, on the concourse, on the inside of the turnstile.

the inside of the turnstile. But we've had a lot of evidence

But we've had a lot of evidence that there was a lot of drinking

that there was a lot of drinking taking place prior to arriving

taking place prior to arriving on the ground and indeed, we've

on the ground and indeed, we've been plotting that in terms of

been plotting that in terms of the pubs and off licences

the pubs and off licences and super markets.

There were some families who hardly missed a day.

who hardly missed a day. We're talking here about

We're talking here about literally months of inquests,

literally months of inquests, traveling from Liverpool

traveling from Liverpool to Sheffield and back.

to Sheffield and back. Going up by train day by day

Going up by train day by day by day and the toll

by day and the toll that took on you.

At the end of it you were on your knees, really.

were on your knees, really. Before a jury he heard evidence

Before a jury he heard evidence relating to each of the 95 who

relating to each of the 95 who died, one after the other.

died, one after the other. The pathologist would come

The pathologist would come in and give evidence.

in and give evidence. How long it took to

How long it took to die, what abrasions.

When the pathological evidence was given, the blood alcohol

was given, the blood alcohol level of that individual

level of that individual was read out in court.

was read out in court. It was all about drink.

It was all about drink. We hardly heard our

We hardly heard our children's names mentioned.

I will never forget seeing the blood alcohol levels of each

blood alcohol levels of each of those people, including

of those people, including children, were published

children, were published in the newspaper.

The issue of blood alcohol levels, the issue of

levels, the issue of drunkenness, the issue of crowd

drunkenness, the issue of crowd related violence, despite being

related violence, despite being discounted by Taylor now rears

discounted by Taylor now rears its head again and it

its head again and it reemerges because it had been

reemerges because it had been Stefan Popper's decision to

Stefan Popper's decision to take blood alcohol levels.

So the coroner, having taken a lot of advice came to a

a lot of advice came to a summing up and very clearly was

summing up and very clearly was moving in a different direction

moving in a different direction to Lord Justice Taylor.

I remember Popper saying, now what we'll do, we will

now what we'll do, we will read each individual name

read each individual name with the verdicts.

John Alfred Anderson, accident.

And every name, accident, accident.

Just to see the reversal of Taylor, the reversal of

of Taylor, the reversal of everything they believed to

everything they believed to be true and knew to be true.

Stupid. I'm looking back now and think,

I'm looking back now and think, how could you be so nalve?

how could you be so nalve? How could you be like that?

How could you be like that? But I was absolutely devastated.

But I was absolutely devastated. I thought there was nowhere

I thought there was nowhere else for me to go.

I came home and I think I sat in a corner and felt like somebody

a corner and felt like somebody had beat me with a big stick.

had beat me with a big stick. They left feeling betrayed, they

They left feeling betrayed, they left feeling that the system had

left feeling that the system had completely let them down

completely let them down and that this was the end.

I'm driving home from university one evening having

university one evening having taught an evening class.

Very tired. Poured myself a cup of tea,

Poured myself a cup of tea, and there in my face is a guy

and there in my face is a guy with long blond hair telling

with long blond hair telling the story about a disaster.

Immediately realized that A, he was a former police officer,

he was a former police officer, and B, been at Hillsborough.

And as he told a story of trying to rescue people and what

to rescue people and what he'd done to rescue people,

he'd done to rescue people, it was clear that he had

it was clear that he had suffered greatly himself.

Having gone through the process of trying to save life

process of trying to save life and trying to intervene

and trying to intervene appropriately, he'd been put

appropriately, he'd been put under an awful lot of pressure

under an awful lot of pressure to basically not tell the truth

to basically not tell the truth as he had witnessed it.

as he had witnessed it. He used the word sanitized.

And I was determined to find him.

I had nothing. After months I thought,

After months I thought, nothing's going to come

nothing's going to come of this, and I just went

of this, and I just went about my business.

about my business. And then I had a phone call.

And we arranged to meet.

We met in Hathersage above Sheffield in the Pennines,

Sheffield in the Pennines, a place I knew really well from

a place I knew really well from climbing and walking.

climbing and walking. He told me his story.

He said, people weren't angels. Liverpool fans weren't angels,

Liverpool fans weren't angels, but he was very clear that what

but he was very clear that what came next in terms of the way

came next in terms of the way the police had been treated was

the police had been treated was about creating or producing

about creating or producing a new kind of story.

We met two more times after that, and on the third occasion

that, and on the third occasion we were about to say goodbye

we were about to say goodbye and he said, I'm just going

and he said, I'm just going out for a minute.

And he came back with an A4 box file and he said,

A4 box file and he said, have a look at that.

There on the top was his statement.

I kind of didn't believe what I was seeing.

Over fifty lines had been taken out, other words added.

Phrases like, "not a good statement for the

statement for the South Yorkshire police,"

and a covering letter from the South Yorkshire police

the South Yorkshire police had admonishment services.

This covering letter used the words review and alteration

words review and alteration and therefore cemented those

and therefore cemented those words into the process.

That scrutiny of evidence was to actually look at evidence that

actually look at evidence that could be brought that hadn't

could be brought that hadn't been heard before by any of the

been heard before by any of the inquiries or investigations,

inquiries or investigations, but also to revisit the

but also to revisit the evidence as existed.

By the time Stuart-Smith comes to Liverpool to meet families

to Liverpool to meet families and I go with the families,

and I go with the families, they don't know that I have

they don't know that I have knowledge of review and

knowledge of review and alteration of statements,

alteration of statements, but I held back.

[ over lapping voices ] There's quite a few areas...

Lord Justice Stuart-Smith, the ultimate in a figure of

the ultimate in a figure of the establishment who makes

the establishment who makes a crass comment.

a crass comment. We should have walked

We should have walked away right there and then.

away right there and then. We didn't because there

We didn't because there was still a fight in us.

was still a fight in us. Little did he know, we were

Little did he know, we were upstairs and I've been there an

upstairs and I've been there an hour before with me husband,

hour before with me husband, waiting upstairs for

waiting upstairs for him to arrive.

I found him quite patronizing.

Have you got new evidence? Well, wait a minute.

Well, wait a minute. How can we get

How can we get you've got all what we've got.

you've got all what we've got. How can you they're not

How can you they're not releasing it to us.

releasing it to us. How could we get new evidence?

How could we get new evidence? They're not releasing it to us.

They're not releasing it to us. Oh, you will need

Oh, you will need new evidence for this.

new evidence for this. But don't worry I will

But don't worry I will look into your question.

look into your question. Quite patronizing and, oh.

Quite patronizing and, oh. You're walking out and you think

You're walking out and you think this is gonna get us nowhere.

Very soon after meeting him with the families, I took the

with the families, I took the police officer to meet with

police officer to meet with Lord Justice Stuart-Smith.

Lord Justice Stuart-Smith. Stuart-Smith was quite

Stuart-Smith was quite astonished that this

astonished that this police officer was

police officer was producing this evidence.

producing this evidence. I felt he was hostile towards

I felt he was hostile towards the police officer and I made it

the police officer and I made it very clear to him I thought he

very clear to him I thought he was hostile and he didn't take

was hostile and he didn't take kindly to that criticism.

In the new year in February the report came out.

With permission, Madame Speaker, I would like to make

I would like to make a statement about the

a statement about the Hillsborough Stadium disaster.

Hillsborough Stadium disaster. The overall conclusion which

The overall conclusion which Lord Justice Stuart-Smith

Lord Justice Stuart-Smith reaches is that there is no

reaches is that there is no basis on which there should

basis on which there should be a further public inquiry.

be a further public inquiry. He concludes that none of the

He concludes that none of the evidence which he was asked

evidence which he was asked to consider added anything

to consider added anything significant to the evidence

significant to the evidence which was available to

which was available to Lord Taylor inquiry or

Lord Taylor inquiry or to the inquests.

to the inquests. The entire country is united in

The entire country is united in sympathy with those who lost

sympathy with those who lost loved ones in Hillsborough,,

loved ones in Hillsborough,, but we cannot take

but we cannot take the pain from them.

the pain from them. However, I hope that the

However, I hope that the families will recognize that

families will recognize that this report represents, as

this report represents, as I promised, a most independent,

I promised, a most independent, thorough and detailed scrutiny

thorough and detailed scrutiny to examine all the evidence

to examine all the evidence which was brought before it.

I'm now determined to access other statements.

I gain access to all of the police statements following the

police statements following the realization that they were

realization that they were being held in the House

being held in the House of Lords reading room.

It is such a formal place.

Neat, tidy, leather-bound books, oak paneled, big trenchered

oak paneled, big trenchered tables, a librarian

tables, a librarian who was timeless.

who was timeless. The woman very polite looked and

The woman very polite looked and said, Oh, Professor Scraton,

said, Oh, Professor Scraton, I think your boxes

I think your boxes are over there.

There in the corner, battered, torn, ripped, stacked one

torn, ripped, stacked one on top of each other.

on top of each other. Not the filing

Not the filing system I'd expected.

They were just statements thrown in upside down,

thrown in upside down, back to front, pages missing,

back to front, pages missing, pages in other places.

pages in other places. Photocopies, but in no order.

I started to put them together as full statements and then

as full statements and then started to put each officer's

started to put each officer's three statements together.

And I went through them, and it was exactly the same as

and it was exactly the same as the police officer's statement

the police officer's statement that I'd already seen.

that I'd already seen. There was a handwritten version,

There was a handwritten version, there was a typed version, which

there was a typed version, which then had all the alterations on

then had all the alterations on it, and then a final statement

it, and then a final statement signed off that was pristine.

You could see visibly, clearly, the review and alteration

the review and alteration process there before you.

Here I am nearly ten years on from the disaster and we're

from the disaster and we're finding that the statements made

finding that the statements made by all police officers after

by all police officers after Hillsborough have gone through

Hillsborough have gone through a vetting process, a review

a vetting process, a review process, an alteration process

process, an alteration process Let's be clear what happened.

Let's be clear what happened. They were given paper on which

They were given paper on which to handwrite their accounts,

to handwrite their accounts, warts and all.

warts and all. They then went through an

They then went through an editorial process involving a

editorial process involving a team of six officers established

team of six officers established by the South Yorkshire Police

by the South Yorkshire Police as the West Midlands Police

as the West Midlands Police investigators were coming in.

Those statements were then transferred into clean

then transferred into clean evidential statements which were

evidential statements which were given to the West Midlands

given to the West Midlands Police office who knew that

Police office who knew that they were inheriting a process

they were inheriting a process that at best was evidentially

that at best was evidentially ambiguous, and at worst was

ambiguous, and at worst was a corruption of evidence.

And that was the final act for Hillsborough truth.

I'd almost completed the book, I'd written it in 12 weeks and

I'd written it in 12 weeks and now I had this new chapter.

now I had this new chapter. I called it

I called it "Sanitizing Hillsborough."

The Sunday Mirror ran a two page headline stating clearly

headline stating clearly the statements have been

the statements have been reviewed and altered...

...and it led to nothing.

And then what unfolded immediately after was the

immediately after was the private prosecution of

private prosecution of Duckenfield and Murray.

Duckenfield and Murray. 11 years ago, David Duckenfield

11 years ago, David Duckenfield was a South Yorkshire

was a South Yorkshire Police Chief Superintendent

Police Chief Superintendent in charge of crowd

in charge of crowd control at Hillsborough.

control at Hillsborough. His deputy was Bernard Murray,

His deputy was Bernard Murray, then a superintendent.

then a superintendent. Today both deny two charges of

Today both deny two charges of manslaughter or one of willfuly

manslaughter or one of willfuly neglecting to ensure the

neglecting to ensure the safety of supporters.

The Hillsborough Family Support Group comprising those who lost

Group comprising those who lost relatives that day have brought

relatives that day have brought and paid for this prosecution.

and paid for this prosecution. The private prosecution started

The private prosecution started and you were up and down to

and you were up and down to Leeds every day, families

Leeds every day, families travelling on a coach, we

travelling on a coach, we were traveling on a coach

were traveling on a coach backwards and forwards.

When the jury returned they acquitted Murray and they were

acquitted Murray and they were a hung jury on Duckenfield.

We got on the coach to come home.

Nobody was talking. It was just this atmosphere.

It was just this atmosphere. We'd been knocked down before,

We'd been knocked down before, and we've come back up from it,

and we've come back up from it, but I thought, there's no

but I thought, there's no coming back from this now.

coming back from this now. That's it, it's finished for me,

That's it, it's finished for me, I can't do any more.

You had to find a way to live the rest of your

live the rest of your life without Hillsborough

life without Hillsborough dominating every breath.

Julie and I had nowhere else to go with it.

else to go with it. We'd been looking for

We'd been looking for justice from day one.

justice from day one. We'd been denied

We'd been denied it at every turn.

it at every turn. I think that was the final

I think that was the final moment of realization

moment of realization that for the time being,

that for the time being, they'd been defeated.

After Lord Justice Taylor's report they had high hopes

report they had high hopes that justice would be served,

that justice would be served, and that didn't happen.

What they found was a system that could not

a system that could not respond appropriately or fully.

What actually was happening was that they weren't believed

was that they weren't believed and all the time it was

and all the time it was self-pity city.

self-pity city. All the time it was, what

All the time it was, what more do they want, when

more do they want, when are they going to get over it?

I've always called this the endless pressure and what

endless pressure and what I witnessed was the distress

I witnessed was the distress and depression associated with

and depression associated with injustice, that exacerbated

injustice, that exacerbated bereavement; deep, hurtful,

bereavement; deep, hurtful, painful suffering over

painful suffering over a long period of time.

a long period of time. People taking their own lives,

People taking their own lives, people dying prematurely,

people dying prematurely, people broken by the

people broken by the struggle for justice.

The price of Hillsborough is not...

...reducible to 96 people dying, the price of

dying, the price of Hillsborough is the

Hillsborough is the price of institutionalized

price of institutionalized injustice, the appalling

injustice, the appalling treatment by some of the media,

treatment by some of the media, of the good reputations of

of the good reputations of innocent people, the cavalier

innocent people, the cavalier way in which wonderful

way in which wonderful people were vilified.

That's the price of Hillsborough.

>> "30 FOR 30: SOCCER STORIES,"

PRESENTED BY PNC BANK.

[ SOFT, DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYS ]

>> AFTER THE DISASTER, SOME OF

THE PLAYERS ATTENDED DOZENS OF

FUNERALS.

AND THE SUPPORT OF THE PLAYERS

SHOWED TO THE FANS THROUGH THOSE

WEEKS OF MOURNING.

I THINK A LOT OF THEM TOOK AN

AWFUL LOT OF TIME TO RECOVER

FROM THAT DAY, AND IT'S NEVER

BEEN FORGOTTEN BY THE PEOPLE OF

LIVERPOOL OR THE FANS, TO THIS

DAY.

[ CROWD SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]

When it was organized, that 20th anniversary, I always thought,

anniversary, I always thought, we've let them down, there won't

we've let them down, there won't be many people there now because

be many people there now because we've let them down with

we've let them down with that private prosecution.

The 20th anniversary was one of those moments where I for one

those moments where I for one thought, we will never

thought, we will never get justice, the truth will

get justice, the truth will never come out.

I didn't expect thirty odd thousand people.

odd thousand people. Nobody in their right mind

Nobody in their right mind would have expected that.

[ applause ]

I'd just like now to introduce the right honorable

introduce the right honorable Andy Burnham, the Secretary

Andy Burnham, the Secretary of State for Culture,

of State for Culture, Media and Sport.

[ applause ]

Until that time no politician had been allowed to stand and

had been allowed to stand and deliver any kind of a statement.

deliver any kind of a statement. Because it is a service of

Because it is a service of remembrance, it is not

remembrance, it is not a political rally.

Hillsborough left deep wounds that will never heal.

that will never heal. Its horror is not diminished

Its horror is not diminished by the passage of time.

by the passage of time. Today, at the Prime Minister hs

Today, at the Prime Minister hs asked me to convey, we can at

asked me to convey, we can at least pledge that 96 fellow

least pledge that 96 fellow football supporters who died

football supporters who died will never be forgotten.

will never be forgotten. The crowd were offended by, not

The crowd were offended by, not him personally, but a politician

him personally, but a politician making what they assumed

making what they assumed would be an empty promise.

[ man in crowd: "Justice!" ] And he asked us to

And he asked us to think at this time.

think at this time. [ applause ]

All the fans and supporters for years started the chant of,

for years started the chant of, Justice for the 96,

Justice for the 96, and we couldn't stop.

[ chant: Justice for the 96. ]

At that point reflection rolled over into anger.

rolled over into anger. I think that righteous

I think that righteous anger was overdue.

[ chanting ]

From that moment on, and I will say it was from that moment on,

say it was from that moment on, that we got a lot more

that we got a lot more than we've ever had.

It convinced Andy Burnham that he had to push this personally

he had to push this personally along and set up the

along and set up the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

When the panel was first in session and we met with the

session and we met with the South Yorkshire Police one of

South Yorkshire Police one of the things that became very

the things that became very clear, and in fact the phrase

clear, and in fact the phrase was used, the panel in its work

was used, the panel in its work would not find a smoking gun.

would not find a smoking gun. It could not have been

It could not have been a more flawed assumption.

People started to arrive.

I went and met so many people that I'd worked

people that I'd worked with for 20 years.

I also thought about...

I also thought about the people who went there, people whose

who went there, people whose funerals I'd read the lesson at,

funerals I'd read the lesson at, people who'd died recently,

people who'd died recently, people who I'd had respect for,

people who I'd had respect for, all of them even people

all of them even people who I'd argued with.

Even at that moment I felt I couldn't tell them

I felt I couldn't tell them because they were fearful...

...they were fearful that they were going to be

they were going to be let down again.

When the bishop got up and the bishop said, I know what you all

bishop said, I know what you all are waiting to find out,

are waiting to find out, have we found anything new?

Three words I'll say to you all;

yes we have.

One of the big issues that had always been a problem

had always been a problem for the families was

for the families was the medical evidence.

the medical evidence. We now know having revisited the

We now know having revisited the pathology on those that died

pathology on those that died that over 40 people could have

that over 40 people could have been saved had they had

been saved had they had appropriate intervention the

appropriate intervention the minute they came out

minute they came out of those pens.

Now I don't know whether James is one of them 41.

James is one of them 41. Quite frankly it doesn't matter.

Quite frankly it doesn't matter. 96 people should

96 people should have been saved.

Having worked on Hillsborough for so many years I felt that

for so many years I felt that nothing would surprise me, but

nothing would surprise me, but I'll never forget the day while

I'll never forget the day while the panel was in session that we

the panel was in session that we came across a document which

came across a document which demonstrated that every single

demonstrated that every single person who had a recorded blood

person who had a recorded blood alcohol level had had a

alcohol level had had a criminal records check run on

criminal records check run on them by the police.

Their name, their address, the details, the alcohol level,

the details, the alcohol level, and what they'd

and what they'd been previously convicted of.

That to me was the clear indication that from the outset

indication that from the outset the police were determined

the police were determined to criminalize those who died,

to criminalize those who died, to damage their reputation.

I got to work and two of the guys at work said, Hey, you're

guys at work said, Hey, you're all over the internet.

I think you ought to take a look at this.

take a look at this. And they showed me the

And they showed me the statements I'd made,

statements I'd made, my Hillsborough statement.

Well, there were two.

There was the one I made, and then there was a second

and then there was a second one with my name on it.

The one I made had got big lines crossing things out, entire

crossing things out, entire paragraphs, altering sentences,

paragraphs, altering sentences, altering phrases.

Everything that had been removed from my statement was

removed from my statement was things where I'd been critical

things where I'd been critical of police command at

of police command at Hillsborough, and the statement

Hillsborough, and the statement that had been submitted under

that had been submitted under my name had been completely

my name had been completely sanitized, but you've got

sanitized, but you've got my name on it.

That's when I found out that I weren't the only one.

Unless I forget my law, altering a person's statement is a

a person's statement is a criminal offense without their

criminal offense without their knowledge or consent.

If you get a group of people doing that part of our policy,

doing that part of our policy, or as part of a strategy, call

or as part of a strategy, call it what you will, I might be an

it what you will, I might be an old washed up bobby, but to me

old washed up bobby, but to me that is still conspiracy to

that is still conspiracy to pervert the cause of justice,

pervert the cause of justice, which is a criminal offense.

which is a criminal offense. And I don't like criminals.

I just shiver down my back. I just wanted to shout

I just wanted to shout and scream there then.

and scream there then. Do you have anything to say

Do you have anything to say about what's happened today and

about what's happened today and how you feel about it?

how you feel about it? Got the bastards!

Got the bastards! I honestly cannot believe some

I honestly cannot believe some of the things that they'd done.

The weight of what had been discovered and how far it had

discovered and how far it had gone and how far reaching it

gone and how far reaching it was, it was like, yes, the whole

was, it was like, yes, the whole world knows now, this is the

world knows now, this is the truth and people have got

truth and people have got to listen now no matter what.

I knew it was going to be a cover-up, and it was,

a cover-up, and it was, we proved it.

Hopefully no one will ever ask me again to admit that I was

me again to admit that I was drunk, admit that I was part of

drunk, admit that I was part of breaking down the gates, admit

breaking down the gates, admit that it was all down to people

that it was all down to people like me, because it wasn't.

It had been said that they wanted the truth warts and all,

wanted the truth warts and all, and I was able to say

and I was able to say there are no warts.

There is just the truth.

But I think that as an end in itself the panel's

end in itself the panel's work achieved justice.

I always wanted that verdict out of the way.

verdict out of the way. I've got what I wanted.

I've got what I wanted. I'm more at peace with myself

I'm more at peace with myself now than I've ever been where

now than I've ever been where I think it's taking too long

I think it's taking too long and too much out of me

and too much out of me and out of my family.