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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,520 The Crown Prosecution Service has authorised Merseyside Police 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,600 to charge Thomas Cashman with the murder 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,800 of nine-year-old Olivia Pratt-Korbel. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,160 We will see you in court. 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:16,480 Yeah, we will. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:17,840 To clear my name. 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:18,880 OK. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,760 If he was any type of man, he'd admit what he's done. 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,560 Ashley Dale was murdered in her own home. 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,520 The innocent victim of a callous crime. 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,120 We'll never come to terms with it. 12 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:35,960 I'll never accept it. 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,520 She's not here. She's not coming back. 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,440 She must have been so scared 15 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,080 when she heard the door getting kicked in. 16 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,040 And she's confronted with someone holding that. 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,080 AUTOMATIC GUNFIRE 18 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,760 I have never gone into a scene like that to see just how determined, 19 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:55,200 whoever it was that's gone in, 20 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,040 there is just no-one getting out of that house alive. 21 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,480 Niall Barry has been making threats towards Lee, 22 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,600 saying that he's put money on his head. 23 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,440 James, come with me, you're under arrest for suspicion of murder. 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,640 These two work for Niall Barry. 25 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,840 And if they carried out the attack, it'll be for him. 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,080 We believe that Witham and Peers have left the Pilch Lane flat, 27 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,360 and then have used the Hyundai to drive to Ashley's home address, 28 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,640 where the door has been forced to the premises. 29 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,000 The gunman has entered, which we believe is James Witham, 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,480 firing ten shots in Ashley's direction, 31 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,760 and then has run out of the house. 32 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,080 We believe that Joseph Peers is outside as more or less 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,280 the getaway driver of the Hyundai. 34 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:19,160 James, just before we go any further, 35 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,840 I need to make you aware that the interview 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,880 is being downstream monitored. 37 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:26,520 Members of the investigation team will be monitoring the live feed 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:27,840 of that interview. 39 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,040 James, what do you know about the murder of Ashley Dale? 40 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,400 Do you know anything about it? 41 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Do you know why Ashley was shot and killed? 42 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,960 OK, Joseph, we're really interested in a grey Hyundai. 43 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,800 Do you recognise this vehicle? 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,480 No comment. 45 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,440 Have you ever driven the vehicle? 46 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,040 No comment. 47 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,800 We believe that vehicle was used 48 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,840 in the commission of Ashley's murder. 49 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:10,280 That means it was used to take the gunman to the address... 50 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,400 ..where Ashley was shot on the head, she was forced. 51 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,160 To be more specific, James. 52 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,480 Did you have any part in forcing the front door of Leinster Road? 53 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,800 So the forensic examination of Leinster Road, 54 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,440 the CSI recovered a number of footprint lifts 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,200 from inside the address. 56 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,880 And he said that the marks were left by an On Cloudflyer trainer... 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,000 ..in a size 8.5. 58 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,160 Did you leave those footwear marks in Leinster Road? 59 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Or is it just a coincidence? 60 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,160 It's just part of the investigation. 61 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,600 We've conducted financial enquiries on a Lloyds account held 62 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,640 in your name, and those records show that 63 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,360 11.09 Saturday the 20th of August, 64 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,080 there was a transaction for £155 65 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,120 at Tesco Sports. 66 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,560 Do you know anything about that transaction? 67 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,800 We're going to show you some footage, James. 68 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:29,120 DCI CUMMINGS: He's sweating. 69 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,040 From isn't it - KMM4? 70 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,240 So this is footage from Tesco's. 71 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,320 Male comes to the till... 72 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,160 ..and purchases black On Cloudflyer trainers.. 73 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,040 ..in a size 8.5. 74 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,680 Do you still have those trainers, James? 75 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,200 Where are they now? 76 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,920 Exhibit DB-21. 77 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,160 This is a bullet casing that has been left within the scene 78 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,840 at Leinster Road. 79 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,320 That specific casing has been submitted for forensic analysis. 80 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,400 So the scientist reports, "The reference DNA profile 81 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,080 "of James Witham is almost fully represented within this result. 82 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,680 "As I might expect if he was a contributor of DNA to this result." 83 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,800 So that bullet casing has been analysed. 84 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,960 The scientist is saying that has come from you. 85 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,400 Do you want to pause the interview? If that's what he wants, yeah. 86 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:46,760 Yeah, that's fine. 87 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:57,120 OK, Joseph, have you got any links to any organised crime group? 88 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,280 No comment. 89 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,840 As in what would be known as the Barry OCG. 90 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,000 You linked to the Barry OCG? 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,120 No comment. 92 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,640 Niall Barry, he's sometimes called Branch. 93 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,360 Does that mean anything to you? That name? 94 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,520 No comment. 95 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,680 Did you have any contact with Niall Barry, also known as Branch, 96 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,360 on the day of the murder? No comment. 97 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,400 OK, James, that's recording again there. 98 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,680 OK. Just before the break, James, 99 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,640 I explained to you about a bullet casing 100 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,920 in the address where Ashley Dale was murdered. 101 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,200 And I asked if there's anything you'd like to say 102 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,240 about those results. 103 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,840 Was Ashley, the intended target, James? 104 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,920 Were you aware of any of your associates 105 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,880 being in dispute with Ashley? 106 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,280 Niall Barry, does that name mean anything to you? 107 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,480 Do you know Niall? 108 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,160 Does the name Lee Harrison mean anything to you, James? 109 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,400 So we know Lee to have been the partner of Ashley 110 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,440 at the time she was killed. 111 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Was Niall in dispute with Lee? 112 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,960 To your knowledge, did Niall have any involvement in this murder? 113 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,040 I've got no further questions. 114 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,440 And the interview is halted. 115 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,240 Detectives send their evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service 116 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,960 for a charging decision. 117 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,200 PHONE VIBRATES 118 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,760 Hello, Cath Cummings. 119 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,520 Are you? 120 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,760 Bail, it's not quite there on an evidential threshold. 121 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,400 For God's sake! 122 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,840 Mr Witham, just want to step up here for us, mate. OK. 123 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,680 But in relation to the murder you allegedly been involved 124 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,160 with and arrested for, there's decision being made 125 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,520 that you're going to be bailed on that matter. OK? 126 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,600 The request on us is to convince the CPS that it can't 127 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,160 have been anybody else. 128 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,280 So what we now need to do, and really with a fine-tooth comb, 129 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,120 is go through all call data for all those relevant people 130 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,120 that we believe were in the flat earlier on that day 131 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,560 into the evening. 132 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,840 And then the two that leave can only be Witham and Peers. 133 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,960 Why I feel frustrated is having to go and explain 134 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 to the family, yeah, we have made two arrests today, 135 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,640 but that unfortunately there isn't sufficient to charge. 136 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:42,760 We've had to release them on bail. 137 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,400 Also, we as the police have now got to manage these two individuals 138 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,000 in the communities, who also have access to a firearm. 139 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,120 SIREN BLARES 140 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,520 The trial's getting under way of the man accused of shooting dead 141 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,000 a nine-year-old girl at her home in Liverpool last summer. 142 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,160 Thomas Cashman denies murdering Olivia Pratt-Korbel in Dovecot. 143 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Olivia's mother has just arrived there she is surrounded 144 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,400 by friends and family. 145 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,640 The trial was moved from Liverpool to Manchester 146 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:33,160 because they were concerned at just how strong the feelings 147 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,000 were in Liverpool, and whether that trial could be carried out fairly. 148 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,480 Judge Mrs Justice Yip noted the details of the case 149 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,440 will be sensitive, and said it would be normal for jurors 150 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,240 to experience emotions. 151 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,960 But she added, "It's important you put your emotions aside 152 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,840 "when listening to the evidence." 153 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,920 Cashman insisted he wasn't the gunman. 154 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,960 He claimed he'd been stitched up and appearing to become tearful. 155 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,560 He told the jury, "I'm not a killer, I'm a dad. 156 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,040 "I'm getting blamed for something I haven't done." 157 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,680 So can you see Cashman in the courtroom? 158 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,280 At the beginning, yes. 159 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:22,040 but they've pulled the blind down on the side where I'm sat. 160 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,960 I'd been told he'd asked for it to be pulled 161 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,600 down because we're intimidating. 162 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Just by looking at him, and I've got every right to look at him. 163 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,920 I needed to because I wanted to see if there was any remorse... 164 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,000 ..and there wasn't. 165 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,120 Nothing. 166 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,920 It's listening to him pleading his innocence, 167 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,800 which is more frustrating. 168 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,480 What are you doing just now? 169 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,360 Um, putting together my victim impact statement. 170 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,920 There's so much that I want to put in... 171 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,200 ..for people to understand, 172 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,240 and especially Cashman. 173 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,440 To understand who Liv was... 174 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,480 ..and for him to understand what he's done. 175 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,360 Understand what we've lost. 176 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,720 "Liv never stopped talking. 177 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,160 "Literally never. 178 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,760 "I would do and give anything in the world 179 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,240 "to have her chatting to me. 180 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,080 "It's so very lonely without her. 181 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,880 "She will never get to make her holy communion, 182 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:01,240 "wear that prom dress or have a Sweet 16 birthday. 183 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,680 "Walk down the aisle with the man of her dreams, or become a mother 184 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,480 "of her own children. 185 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,240 "This happened in our home where we felt safe, 186 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:15,600 "and that night when I realised Liv had been shot and needed me... 187 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,320 "..I was not able to do CPR properly on her because of my injury. 188 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:27,640 "I did not have full use of my hands and I felt helpless. 189 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,680 "My worst nightmare was being separated from Liv... 190 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,080 "and not being with her when she needed me the most. 191 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,000 "I was the first person to hold my baby girl, 192 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,960 "and as her mum, I should have been the last. 193 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,880 "Now I have to drive to the cemetery to be close to my baby daughter. 194 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,080 "I sit with her and talk to her, telling her I miss her smile, 195 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,360 "her kisses, her cuddles, her voice. 196 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,120 "I tell her she will live on in my heart. 197 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,800 "She will always be with us. 198 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,560 "My little shadow. 199 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,160 "We love you endless amounts, Liv." 200 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,840 And you'd like to say that to Cashman? 201 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,040 Yeah. 202 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,520 Yeah, very much so. 203 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Because Liv hasn't got a voice any more. 204 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,160 I will be her voice. 205 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,920 APPLAUSE 206 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,120 Hundreds of balloons were released in Sefton Park in Liverpool 207 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,360 in honour of Ashley Dale. 208 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,680 Friends and family gathered to celebrate her life. 209 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,160 So I've known Ashley since we were two years of age. 210 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,280 We've grown up together. We've done everything together. 211 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,520 Went to secondary school together, finished uni at the same time. 212 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,320 We should have had many more milestones to come. 213 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,920 30th birthdays, babies, marriages. 214 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,920 I can't put into words how we feel to have her taken from us. 215 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,200 She had a violent death for just such a gentle soul. 216 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,760 If it can happen to Ashley, it can happen to anyone. 217 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,800 And that's the...scariest thing. 218 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,760 The gun crime in this city has got to stop. 219 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,240 It's got to stop. 220 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,040 So we seized this phone, which is an Encro enabled 221 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,400 phone from Niall Barry. 222 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,480 An Encro phone is a encrypted device. 223 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,320 This enables criminals to conduct their activities undetected. 224 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,640 It can be anything from supplying drugs, supplying firearms. 225 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,560 People like Barry thought that these messages would stay private, 226 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,200 but our colleagues in Europe cracked the encryption. 227 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Detectives discover messages Nigel Barry sent to Sean Zeisz, 228 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,160 a lieutenant in his OCG who was with him on the night 229 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,920 of Ashley's murder. 230 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,800 Barry and Zeisz are shifting serious quantities of drugs. Oh, yeah. 231 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,360 We've got Niall Barry being offered, 232 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,120 um, cocaine here. 233 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,120 "They look sound, bro. I'll probably take four, bro. 234 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,960 "I'll take the four, and we'll pass £80,000 up front today." 235 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,080 So he's got a lot of cash on him. 236 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,520 Niall Barry's clearly shopping around for a firearm. 237 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:12,720 Jesus. 238 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,920 He's being offered two AK-47s. Nice. 239 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,720 85 sweets. So 85 bullets with each. Yeah. 240 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,600 One TEC-9 self-loading pistol. 241 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,960 Yeah. With either 2 or 400 sweets. 242 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,080 Yeah. Quite interestingly, one Scorpion with suppressor. 243 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,800 And said, "The scorp will defo have get us prices." 244 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,000 The Scorpion submachine gun was the same weapon that was used 245 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,040 to murder Ashley. Yeah, it was. Yeah. 246 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,280 We've got a conversation between Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz 247 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,560 regarding firearms here, mate. 248 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,080 They're plotting to attack someone who's stolen Sean's electric bike. 249 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,080 It's quite scary the way it reads. Go on. 250 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,480 Barry instructs Zeisz. 251 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,280 "Get that 38. 252 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,320 "Just get that and the scorp." 253 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,000 It looks like he's not scared to use it as he tells Sean, 254 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,920 "I reckon we blaze both gaffs." 255 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,160 "Just wait for them to run out..." Yeah. 256 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,160 "..and when they do, just do them." 257 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,760 It sounds like he wants to shoot him, dunnit? 258 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,960 He certainly does. And Sean seems to agree - "100%", he says. 259 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,040 Good morning, everyone. 260 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,160 This who were looking to arrest this morning, Niall Barry. 261 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,520 He was arrested initially on suspicion of 262 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,000 the murder of Ashley Dale. 263 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,200 However, he is to be arrested in relation 264 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,440 to a significant drug conspiracy. 265 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,880 He's also to be arrested for conspiracy to possess a firearm 266 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,080 without certificate and conspiracy to commit GBH. 267 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:01,360 What channel are we on? 268 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,800 Six, isn't it? 269 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,040 Yes. Niall Barry. 270 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,520 So it's N-I-A-L-L. 271 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,440 Get your cameras on. 272 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,360 It's open. It's open. 273 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,200 Property-wise, you say you've just got cash on you, 274 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,360 is that all you've got? 275 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,120 I've got £120 in my pocket. 276 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,600 No problem. OK. 277 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,080 Right. OK. 278 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,280 Boss, we've got Barry. 279 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,880 Sean Zeisz, the man who was with Barry on the night of Ashley's 280 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,600 murder, is also arrested. 281 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,400 Away from me, mate. 282 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,680 Eh, eh! Don't be making threats in here. 283 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,200 Tell you that now. Don't be making threats in here. 284 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,480 This interview is being digitally audio recorded. 285 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,320 Is your lifestyle funded from you selling drugs, Niall? 286 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:51,520 Quantities we have attributed to yourself are 22.25kg of cocaine, 287 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:57,520 2.5kg of heroin and 27kg of cannabis. 288 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,080 You're also arrested for conspiracy to possess a firearm 289 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:09,360 without a certificate and also conspiracy to commit GBH. 290 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,440 Have you got any knowledge of firearms at all, Niall? 291 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,880 Sean Zeisz, that's a friend of yours, isn't it? 292 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,040 He's someone you do business with nowadays. 293 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,720 You ever heard the term "scorp" before, Sean? 294 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,240 Firearms expert suggested 295 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,160 that's a Czechoslovakian self-loading pistol. 296 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,160 And then you say, "He's gonna have to get it, ain't he?" 297 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,840 He's going to have to get what? 298 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,680 He's got to get what's coming to him? 299 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,120 "I reckon we blaze both gaffs... 300 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,640 "..shoot at both gaffes and wait for them to run out. 301 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,600 "When they do, just do them." 302 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,920 Is that you planning an attack on the individuals responsible... 303 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,560 ..for stealing your bike? 304 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,440 Not just an attack, a firearms attack. 305 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,240 Have we got anything wrong there at all? 306 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Sean, anything you want to add? 307 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,640 And the interview's now at an end. 308 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,320 Boss, the CPS have got back to us about Barry and Zeisz. 309 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,840 Ellison's emailed me to say he's had a look. 310 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,000 He's happy to charge with all the offences that we thought. 311 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,320 Brilliant! 312 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,960 I want the family to know first about the arrests 313 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,680 before anything goes out. 314 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,280 Yeah? Thank you. 315 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,600 No problem, no worries. 316 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,240 Right, OK, Sean. 317 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:53,760 Sean? Yeah. 318 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,440 Can you hear me, mate? Yeah. Right, OK. 319 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,040 You conspired together with other persons to supply 320 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,200 a quantity of cocaine - a controlled drug of class A. 321 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:03,760 Is there any reply? 322 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:05,920 No reply. 323 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,680 You conspired together with other persons to have in your possession 324 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,000 firearms, namely revolvers and self-loading pistols. 325 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,280 And that's contrary to section 1-1 of the Criminal Law Act '77. 326 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,320 Any reply? No. No. 327 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,160 The charges for Barry and Zeisz is fantastic news 328 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,680 at this stage of the murder investigation, because what it means 329 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,400 is they will be remanded into custody, which ultimately takes 330 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,080 them off the streets. 331 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,360 And just sign here for us, please. 332 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,080 The focus now at all levels across the team 333 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,240 is for Witham and Peers that remain 334 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,720 on police bail and prove their involvement in Ashley's murder. 335 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,440 Your bodycam's rolling, isn't it? 336 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,560 Police responding to an incident in St Helens 337 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,880 make an unexpected discovery. 338 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,160 While I'm here, I'm just going to check that, because there's 339 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,400 one outstanding for a very serious offence. 340 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,480 Yep, that's the one. 341 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,520 There's a marker on in relation to Ashley Dale's murder. 342 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,600 It's the vehicle linked for that. 343 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,840 Don't go anywhere near it. 344 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,520 I knew it was. 345 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,200 It's on a false plate. And it's on a false plate. 346 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,080 The Hyundai Fastback is examined for any evidence 347 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,520 that may link it to the shooting. 348 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,000 It's weird seeing it in person. 349 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,120 I've been looking at on CCTV for weeks and weeks and weeks. 350 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,680 I know, yeah. I know. 351 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,320 Yeah, I'm amazed it's not on a boat to China. 352 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,600 Fingers crossed they'll find something that connects 353 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Witham and Peers to this car. 354 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,120 Detectives analyse call data from phones used by the suspects 355 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,080 on the night of Ashley's murder. 356 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:27,320 Morning, boss. I've just gone through the CCTV and the telecoms, 357 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,280 and we've produced a sequence of events. 358 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,120 We've got some CCTV of Joseph Peers going to the local shop 359 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:41,040 next to the flat, where we can see that Peers purchases a SIM card. 360 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,240 Now, when we done some enquiries, that SIM card was used 361 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,760 nine minutes later by Barry. 362 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,600 First-ever used. 363 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,840 But that makes some significant calls later on 364 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,520 in the lead-up to the murder. 365 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,440 That's on the CCTV. Obviously, the two of them have left the flat, 366 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,000 Witham and Peers, and that's at 2210. 367 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,080 You then see at 2243, that SIM card attempts to make 368 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,400 a one-second phone call to Witham. 369 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,040 But it's Witham just left the flat? Yes. 370 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,520 And then you've also got, ten seconds later, Barry then tries 371 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,120 to speak to Joseph Peers for two seconds. 372 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,000 So, because he can't get hold of Witham, he then tries Peers. 373 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,400 He does, yeah. 374 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,800 So, that shows that by that time they're still together, aren't they? 375 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,080 Yes. Well, he thinks that they're still together. Yeah. 376 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,440 So, then we move forward. 377 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,520 2310, Sean Zeisz makes a 23-second phone call to Joseph Peers. 378 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,120 That is about 26 minutes before the tyres are slashed 379 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,840 on Ashley's vehicle. 380 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,320 You'll see from the cell site at the time, Witham, just before 381 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,960 the tyres are slashed, his cell site's within the area 382 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,640 of Ashley Dale's home address. 383 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920 Wow. God, that's significant, isn't it? Yeah. 384 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:58,480 So, we believe that Ashley was murdered at approximately 0033. 385 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,600 The next phone call we've got is at 0047. 386 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,520 Sean Zeisz makes two attempts calls to Joseph Peers. 387 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,000 And then we'll see the first successful contact at 0059. 388 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,280 So, about 27 minutes after Ashley was murdered, 389 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,240 and that's Joseph Peers to Sean Zeisz. 390 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,720 Shortly after that phone call, 391 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:29,320 Niall Barry is checking the Liverpool Echo, at 1:01 and 1:03. 392 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,520 At 0125, we're seeing James Whitham and Joseph Peers 393 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,120 returning to the flat. 394 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,880 Whilst they're still in the flat, at 0138, now Barry's making 395 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,840 a further Google search on the Liverpool Echo, 396 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,040 and that continues into the early hours of the morning. 397 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,320 That is the first press release. 398 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,920 So, that's at 0926. 399 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,040 30 minutes later, now Barry accesses the Liverpool Echo. 400 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,040 So, basically, we've got now Barry and Sean Zeisz in that flat, 401 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,560 trying to get hold of the only two people that have left it. Yes. 402 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,840 James Witham and Joseph Peers. 403 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,760 This could be enough now to charge the two of them. 404 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,360 Hello. Is it James? 405 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,720 What? What's your name? James. 406 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,960 You're currently under arrest for murder, all right. What? 407 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,800 You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence 408 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,680 if you don't mention when questioned something you later rely on 409 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,800 in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. 410 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,480 Just take a seat in there for me, mate. 411 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,080 Mr Witham, do you know why you're here? 412 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,720 Do you understand that you've been arrested on suspicion of murder? 413 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,800 The murder of Ashley Dale. 414 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,520 Are you staying silent now because you've been told to? 415 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,040 Who has the type of power to silence you like that? 416 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,200 So, in your first set of interviews, we spoke about a vehicle 417 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,320 which was key to the offence, which was, namely, a grey Hyundai i30. 418 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,200 Do you know anything further about that vehicle at this point? 419 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,440 No comment. 420 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,240 Merseyside Police have discovered the grey Hyundai. 421 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,640 So, we've forensically examined the vehicle, James. 422 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,520 And there's one exhibit that I want to discuss with you, 423 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,800 which is exhibit reference SM81. 424 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,000 It's a black bottle top from the rear nearside footwell 425 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,760 of the vehicle. 426 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,560 Your DNA is present on that bottle top. 427 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,600 To your knowledge, have you and Joseph, ever shared a bottled drink? 428 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,080 The major DNA profile matches the reference DNA profile 429 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,800 for Joseph Peers. 430 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,760 So, can you account of how that has come to be in that car? 431 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,640 No comment. 432 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,040 Because you've been in that car, simple as that. 433 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,720 No comment. 434 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,440 We're going to move on to some telecoms evidence. 435 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,800 Mobile phone number which we've linked to you, 436 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,240 coincidentally, powers down before the murder takes place. 437 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,400 There's Pilch Lane flat. 438 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,400 There's the murder scene. 439 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,360 And there's round about where you were 440 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,160 when you switched your phone off. 441 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,720 Roughly, four-minute journey in a car. 442 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,120 Do you find that interesting, James? 443 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,840 Because what's interesting, as well, is your mate, 444 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,440 Joseph Peers, switches his phone off at about the same time. 445 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,320 And, interestingly, he switched his back on again 446 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,680 three minutes after Ashley was murdered. 447 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,360 Why did your phone go silent? 448 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,080 Because it seems to us on the investigation team that, 449 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,440 well, perhaps you were just about to go and do something highly illegal. 450 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,080 Highly dangerous. 451 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,080 Something that you might get in a lot of trouble for. 452 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,280 Mr Witham, this is your last chance. 453 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Do you want to tell us absolutely anything about anything 454 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,240 that we've spelled out here? 455 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,320 Are you protecting the person who murdered Ashley Dale 456 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,800 with your silence? 457 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,080 Is it easier not to say anything and take the repercussions, 458 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:09,960 whatever they may be, than risk the repercussions of talking? 459 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,840 Or is it that there's an agreed code of silence? 460 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,840 I've got no further questions. Nothing from me. 461 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,600 Charge is coming across now. 462 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,240 Dead nervous! 463 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,960 Has it come through? 464 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,760 Right. Brilliant. 465 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,680 Just had the authorities to charge through from CPS. 466 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,440 So, are you free now to put those charges on? 467 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,080 Yes. Of course. I'll put the charge. 468 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,120 Possession of a firearm and murder for both. 469 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,120 Full Code Test applied. 470 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,840 Well done. I know this is a lot to do, but...fantastic result. 471 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,360 I'm just racing out to the family now. 472 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,520 You all right, James? 473 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,200 So a decision has come back and you're going to be charged. 474 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,200 First charge is one for murder. 475 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,080 On the 21st of August 2022, 476 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,400 at Leinster Road, Liverpool, Merseyside, 477 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,040 you murdered Ashley Dale, contrary to common law. 478 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,680 Any reply to that first charge? 479 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,040 No. 480 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,320 You, without the authority of the Secretary of State, 481 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,040 purchased or acquired a firearm - namely a Skorpion machine pistol. 482 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,640 And that's contrary to Section 51A and Schedule 6 483 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,440 of the Firearms Act 1968. 484 00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:20,640 NEWSREADER: Two men have been remanded in custody, 485 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,440 charged with the murder of Ashley Dale in Liverpool. 486 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,800 They're due to appear again at Liverpool Crown Court 487 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,960 later this week. 488 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,640 REPORTER: Thomas Cashman, guilty of the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel... 489 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:55,760 Yes! 490 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,400 ..guilty, in fact, on all five counts. 491 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,080 REPORTER: Gasps and tears, we're told, 492 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,920 from Olivia's family as the verdicts returned 493 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,480 and Cashman turning back to his family, shaking his head. 494 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,880 NEWSREADER: We're standing by for the sentencing 495 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,720 at Manchester Crown Court of Thomas Cashman, 496 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,920 found guilty of the murder of nine-year-old Olivia Pratt-Korbel. 497 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,640 While we continue to wait for the sentencing of Thomas Cashman, 498 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,080 there has been a delay 499 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,280 because Thomas Cashman wishes to be sentenced in his absence. 500 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,960 He is refusing to enter the courtroom. 501 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,200 Mr Cashman has been brought to court today 502 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:47,680 but has refused to come from the cells to be sentenced. 503 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:52,480 I am therefore left with no choice but to sentence him in his absence. 504 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,480 I now pronounce the sentence. 505 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,760 On count one, for the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 506 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,760 the sentence will be life imprisonment. 507 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,680 The minimum term will be 42 years... 508 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,240 Oh! ..plus the time the defendant has already spent on remand. 509 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,560 CHEERING 510 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,240 42 years, that's a huge minimum sentence, 511 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,640 which means that he will be 76 512 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,560 before he's got any chance of being released. 513 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,920 My thanks go to the witnesses 514 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,880 who bravely assisted the prosecution case 515 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,680 and defied the usual stance of "People do not grass." 516 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,360 Today's sentence will never bring Olivia back. 517 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,480 I hope that the sentence of 42 years given to Thomas Cashman today 518 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,920 will act as a deterrent for anyone who thinks of picking up a gun 519 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,040 and putting our communities at risk through their reckless behaviour. 520 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,200 Thank you. Thank you all. 521 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,360 We're going to head over that way. 522 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,360 REPORTER: On the streets of Liverpool 523 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,200 is a family determined to make itself heard. 524 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,400 Hi! Would you like to support our online petition today 525 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,120 to support Face the Family? It's to make offenders to stand up in court 526 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,360 and face the family rather than hiding themselves. 527 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,280 They're calling for a change in the law to force criminals 528 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,240 to attend their sentencing. 529 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,560 Basically, do you remember little Olivia? 530 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,240 It's that lady, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 531 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,400 That's Liv, and I'm her sister. 532 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,160 Trying to get as many signatures as we can, 533 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,480 make this change in the law, 534 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,160 not so much to look him in the eye - 535 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,680 because I knew he wouldn't look me in the eye - 536 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,760 but for him to hear the pain that we went through, 537 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,120 the pain that he caused. 538 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,080 PRODUCER: And what was it like for you when he didn't? 539 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,320 It was like a punch in the stomach. 540 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,640 Hi, guys. Would you like to help sign our petition, please? 541 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,400 Face the Family campaign. 542 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,880 Get offenders into the dock. 543 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,800 Going to prison is supposed to be a rehabilitation. 544 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,040 That first port of call of rehabilitation 545 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,480 should be in that courtroom. 546 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,840 Actions speak louder than words, 547 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,560 and we said we were going to make a noise 548 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,760 and that's exactly what we're doing today. 549 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,680 NEWSREADER: Four men have each been told 550 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,760 that they will spend more than 40 years in prison 551 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,200 for murdering Ashley Dale in Liverpool last August. 552 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,040 REPORTER: The prosecution saying this was a deliberate and merciless 553 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,040 intent to kill, that James Whitham and Joseph Peers were dispatched 554 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,200 to assassinate Lee Harrison and leave no witnesses. 555 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,640 REPORTER: Niall Barry, the main instigator of the shooting, 556 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,640 got life with a minimum of 47 years. 557 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,320 Gunman James Witham will serve at least 43 years, 558 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,480 another plotter, Sean Zeisz, 42 years, 559 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,240 and getaway driver Joseph Peers, 41 years. 560 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,600 As James Witham stormed into Ashley's home that night, 561 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,040 wearing a balaclava, firing from a Skorpion submachine gun, 562 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,840 he took away Ashley, an ambitious, bubbly, charismatic young woman - 563 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,120 the community rocked, 564 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,920 her family and friends left devastated. 565 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,720 Whilst they will never get over losing their Ashley, 566 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,480 following today's results, I and the rest of the team hope 567 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,600 they will find some comfort in the knowledge 568 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,800 that those responsible will spend the rest of their lives behind bars. 569 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,840 The biggest thing that came out for me in the court 570 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,320 was that this feud that had been going on with the defendant 571 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:33,040 and Ashley's boyfriend, Lee, Ashley had major anxieties...over it. 572 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,440 And that came out in court and we didn't know anything about it. 573 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,880 And that... That is probably one of the hardest parts for me, 574 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,480 that me and Ashley were so close, but she didn't feel able to come 575 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,120 and talk about them anxieties that she had. 576 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,080 I don't think for one minute she thought that 577 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,760 something this serious would happen, cos who would? 578 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,480 Who would think that someone is going to burst into your home 579 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,320 at half past midnight at night and fire 15 shots? No-one. 580 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,680 It doesn't happen, it's not heard of, but it's happened to us. 581 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,440 PRODUCER: What was it like reading out 582 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,560 your victim impact statement in court? 583 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,640 I felt like that was my only chance to be able to speak to the defendant 584 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,720 and look them in the eye and tell them what they've done to my family. 585 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,760 And I addressed James Witham by name 586 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,840 when I told him that I hope he sees my baby girl's face every night 587 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,440 when he goes to sleep and he walked out the dock. 588 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,720 Why do you think he walked out of the dock? 589 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,080 Cos he knew what he'd done and, yeah, he couldn't take it. 590 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,520 He couldn't face it. 591 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,240 A couple of months after this happened to Ashley, 592 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,200 her work colleagues thought about doing, like, a tribute. 593 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:57,480 We thought the park where she loved coming would be a perfect place, 594 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,280 somewhere to come and remember Ashley. 595 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,240 She was my daughter. She was, you know, very important to me. 596 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,280 Sorry. 597 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,520 She loved life. 598 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,000 She just brought joy to us all the time. 599 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,200 Losing her, it's just left a hole in our family. 600 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,680 It's just a hole that will never be filled. 601 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,240 Hi. Morning. Morning. How are you? Yeah, not too bad. I'm Rishi. 602 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,440 Cheryl. Very nice to see you, Cheryl. Nice to meet you. 603 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,000 REPORTER: This was the day Cheryl Korbel's determination 604 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,320 to secure her daughter's legacy brought her 605 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,280 to the Prime Minister's door. 606 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,960 For the person responsible not to show up to his sentencing hearing 607 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,200 is just profoundly wrong. 608 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,920 It's not... It's not right. 609 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,040 And I could see all the emotion 610 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,760 that you had put into your impact statement. 611 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,520 And it's not an easy thing to do. This is the thing. 612 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,680 Like, after you have put all of that of yourself into it, 613 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:09,400 for him to just take the easy way out 614 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,240 and then not have to hear that and face up to what he's done, 615 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,680 it just... It isn't right. 616 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,480 And that's why today, we're announcing 617 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,120 that we're going to change that. 618 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,840 So it won't be possible any longer for people like him 619 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,640 to take the coward's way out. 620 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,960 When the Prime Minister met Cheryl Korbel today, he was able 621 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,960 to pledge that the change in the law that she and other families 622 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,400 have been campaigning for will now take place. 623 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,080 Under new rules, judges will be able to force offenders 624 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,320 to attend sentencing hearings. 625 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,600 Some flowers. 626 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,920 Boss, isn't it? Yeah. 627 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,120 She's done a boss job of that, hasn't she? 628 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,560 This is fab. The flowers... The colours are gorgeous as well. 629 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,960 This is Olivia's butterfly garden. 630 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,360 The butterfly was a workshop that was done in school, 631 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,280 the kids from St Margaret Mary's. 632 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,520 A lot of them were Olivia's friends. 633 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,720 And I thought it would help the children to remember Liv. 634 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,080 It's everything that Liv loved - 635 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,640 butterflies, the flowers, 636 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,880 the music notes. 637 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,400 It's so peaceful. 638 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,120 The minute you walk through the gates, 639 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,440 it's like a ton weight's been lifted. 640 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,480 You often get a butterfly or a robin that comes down, 641 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,280 so I feel as though she's here as well. 642 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,200 PRODUCER: Why is changing the law important to you? 643 00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:04,040 We see it as Olivia's Law. 644 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:06,880 For her to be remembered. 645 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,160 Erm... She'll never be forgotten anyway. 646 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,400 I couldn't help her that night... 647 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,360 ..and I managed... 648 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,200 ..the change of law in her name. 649 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:29,640 It's big. 650 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:31,480 Subtitles by Red Bee Media53511

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