Original subtitles

one in this country.

You know, you always hear about people going down south,

and you bring guns back to Brooklyn.

That was a common conversation

in the community and the projects.

But I just never knew how easy it was to do that.

How long have you been -- been selling guns?

Has the game changed in your --

in these 2 years? Has it gotten easier or harder?

Has the police wised up to what the game is?

People don't feel safe. That's part of the reason.

Our goal is just to simply show the world a window

as to why people do the things they do,

where that desperation comes from.

It's like they say, "When the system fails you,

you create your own system."

Growing up on these streets

in, um, in projects in Flatbush Brooklyn,

I've seen a lot of violence, a lot of gun violence, you know.

The flip side of that is I started losing

a lot of friends.

Cities like New York have tried to, um,

make the laws more strict in regards

to getting illegal guns out here on the streets.

But in my opinion,

I don't see much difference still,

same senseless violence.

Oh, here we go.

Vast majority of illegal guns on New York City streets

actually come from states with lenient gun laws.

So I'ma try to find out

where these illegal guns coming from

and how are they ending up on New York City streets.

Yeah, I had heard that Atlanta was

the starting point for a lot of these guns,

so went down there to meet the local gun runner.

What's good, man? -How you doing?

Wanted to talk to you about, you know, I mean,

the gun running from Atlanta to New York.

How long have you been in the business

of selling weapons?

Where are these guns on the table,

where are they off to?

Am I correct in saying

that this is a military assault rifle?

No one feels safe anymore.

Like people just generally don't feel safe.

Do you feel the same way in regards?

Let me ask you a question, man,

'cause I feel you a conscious brother.

-Mm-hmm. -You recognize the fact

that there's a good chance that some of these weapons

that are being sold are gonna probably end up in the hood

in another brother's hand

taking another brother's life?

Does that bear any weight on you at all?

You know what I'm saying?

Do I agree with his methods of supporting himself?

You know, no. But I do understand

and I empathize with his pain

as being a black man with not enough to do

and resorting to what resources is in the community.

Who am I to -- to judge that.

I felt it.

Georgia has over 2,000 licensed gun dealers.

That's almost triple the number of McDonald's.

Federal law requires licensed dealers

to run background checks.

Now these background checks are supposed to stop gun sales

to drug addicts,

mentally ill people and convicted felons.

But even if you have a criminal record,

there's always a way to get a gun.

So we asked a former gun runner to show us

how traffickers get their hands on guns.

Being from a small town that had no jobs,

that's how I got in the game in the first place.

And there was already too many people selling drugs.

So I got caught up on weapons.

Over the course of a lifetime,

I probably had anywhere from 2,000 to 3,000 guns.

I really don't have a count.

If someone wanted to buy a gun right now,

I could get them a gun this evening illegally.

I can go to people that I know have illegal weapons

that you can just purchase for a certain amount of money.

Those are the easiest weapons to buy

because there are people out there

that break into pawn shops on the regular.

I would think that it would be a very good location

to do from the back wall

simply because of the camera angles.

The boxes obscure the view of the camera.

The angle on the camera looks as though it's not working.

The only way that they would be able to actually do this,

because it has so much security in the front,

they would actually use heavy equipment.

And they would go through the back wall

of this particular location.

They would go to the nearest construction site.

And they would steal whatever heavy equipment

that they could use.

You gonna try to breach the wall right here

because it's gonna be the easiest way

to get the equipment in.

Your four to five guys will enter through the hole.

Each guy's gonna have five to six weapons apiece.

And you're gone because by now,

the alarm's already sounding. You've got a load.

And you've got to get out. You got to be gone.

And it's being done all over the country,

everywhere, all the time.

Bojorquez: 10 thieves rushed inside this gun store,

smashed glass cases,

grabbed guns by the sack full,

all in under 2 minutes.

Federal officials say weapons stolen in this type of burglary

will likely end up on the black market

and could be used in violent crimes.

Stone Mountain Red: I was in one of the projects

right here in Atlanta.

We were about to make a trip to New York.

And we were stopping to purchase some cocaine

so that we could stay awake while we were driving.

And, uh, we were robbed by two kids,

two 9-year-olds with 9mm's in my face trying to rob me.

That's when it really dawned on me what I was doing.

I saw a lot of crime. And who knows,

maybe my weapons were part of those crimes.

And I didn't really intend for it to be that way.

When you see needless death and violence, then, you know,

a human being is gonna have some type of feelings about that.

And I do.

Williams: Atlanta's the hub for illegal gun runners

because there are so many ways to get a gun.

What's good, fam? Respect.

What's up, man? Respect.

So what do you got in the bag today?

Can you tell me where you obtained these --

these weapons from?

Oh, so you buy these guns legally?

Yeah.

So you got a connect

that goes and buys the guns for you?

Now I got you. Yeah.

Uh-huh.

What would be the going price for a 9mm?

What do you flip that for?

Has there ever been an incident where these guns

were traced back to the person who sold 'em?

Do you know anybody that...

The dudes who I met in Atlanta, man, they --

they didn't really care.

This is what it is.

This is what I do.

We buy and sell guns.

No glamour, no remorse, just it is what it is.

You really can't understand gun trafficking

unless you understand our gun laws.

So we asked a local gun enthusiast to show us

how he was able to legally purchase guns

without a background check from a private seller.

Man: You can really just go online and find

so many listings of private sellers.

This is a never-ending list.

This guy right here really has a full package

of everything you need for an AR-15.

It's fairly cheap also for what -- what he's selling.

$1,400's really not bad.

This guy right here has a Ruger for sale.

He's asking for $350.

You could probably even get that a little bit cheaper.

[ Cellphone rings ]

All right. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

-Have a good one. -You too.

Williams: And for years, the most common place

for private sales was at the gun show.

-Thank you. -Thank you.

You have a great day. -You too.

Williams: It is crazy how many guns

and how many varieties of guns are at a gun show.

Would you, uh, be negotiable on this?

Now at this show,

about 80% of the booths are all licensed.

But the other 20% were private sellers.

Man: This is a 380 Beretta.

So I got that pretty simple and easy.

As long as I had cash, I was good.

Like, you know, I could've been a felon for all they know.

Williams: In January 2016, President Obama issued

an executive order to shut down the gun-show loophole.

Anybody in the business of selling firearms

must get a license and conduct background checks

or be subject to criminal prosecutions.

Williams: And Obama, he's trying to do something,

but some critics say the new law

might just push buyers further underground.

You know, I'm not gonna lie.

In Atlanta, I felt a little -- a little uneasy.

What made me connect with Omar

is he actually was making a moral statement.

He just chose the gun to do it with.

Outside of that, man, I'm comfortable with guns

as long as the bullets are not real.

This dude is a gun runner.

And he's about to run some guns up North.

[ Thunder rumbles ]

The guns will be worth four times

what he paid for 'em when he gets to New York.

Houser: It's been my experience,

and I've been an agent almost 27 years,

I think one of the biggest challenges

in curtailing firearms trafficking

is the fact that you have 50 states.

And you almost have 50 different rules.

So there's no way to estimate how many weapons

are crossing state lines illegally.

You know, what we have are hard

and true statistics of what has been recovered.

So we're getting the weapon.

And we're backtracking the story to figure out

who is responsible for trafficking it.

And it is a very, very long, arduous process.

ATF's National Tracing Center division

is the only facility like it in the country.

Many people are under the impression

that we just type a gun's serial number

into a computer system

and it pops out who bought the gun.

That's not the reality of the situation.

There isn't any national registry for firearms.

So consequently, there is a process

that we have to go through to isolate who the purchaser is.

Hi. This is Debbie with ATF National Tracing Center.

I have a gun trace that I need your assistance with, please.

Williams: The system to track guns used in crimes is outdated.

I'm looking for a Glock 38 pistol.

And these ladies are on the phone

trying to track down all these different sellers.

To me, it seems crazy.

Have a good day.

Uh-huh, buh-bye.

Mulham: Currently there's more than 10,000 boxes

in process here.

Once we cross the 10,000-box mark,

GSA, who owns the building, says the floor will collapse.

So we actually have seven shipping containers

in the parking lot in the back filled with records.

Right.

Williams: The ATF has to scan,

sort and dig through all these records

because Congress prohibits them

from creating a searchable database.

This technology was old even when I was in school.

So this roll of microfilm,

10,000 frames of information, 10,000 pages.

Particular dealer, there might be five dealers on this.

But if a guy's been in business for say 20, 30 years

and sold a lot of guns,

why, this whole section

may be microfilm associated with that dealer's records.

10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60,000 pages

have to be reviewed until you find the right gun.

I mean, I know it looks a little bit primitive,

but that's how it works.

Houser: That's -- that's the process.

That's -- that's what the process was in 1989

when I started on this job.

And it's also what the process is now.

But we can see geographic areas

that we know weapons are funneling into our city from.

The data shows here in New York

that, uh, a large majority of the weapons

that are being recovered are coming from southern states.

Williams: This crew is waiting for a shipment of guns

coming up from the South.

Man: You know what I mean?

Braga: This is not a problem just of New York.

This is, uh, a problem across the country.

We talked to roughly about 130 gang members in Chicago.

The reasons why they want guns

is because it's an objectively very risky environment.

And if you don't have a firearm,

the perception is that you are at greater risk

of being victimized yourself.

And the tragedy is that carrying a gun doesn't make you safer.

It makes you more likely to be a target of violence.

'Sup, man?

Williams: This Chicago gangbanger agreed to talk to me

about why he feels the need to keep his crew strapped.

How easy is it for you

to obtain an illegal gun out here?

Real easy.

Everybody got a... Yeah.

What's up.

You been on basically buying and trading guns

for about 2 years or so.

You sell 'em to your block? Or do you...

Your sole purpose of getting guns

is to make sure you and your -- your boys

stay -- stay armed up.

When's the last time you --

you -- you felt the need to, uh, to strap up?

Basically.

You was in a gunfight 10 minutes ago

before we just spoke?

So...

So you think with all the hype about gun violence,

with all the violence and all the bloodshed...

You know what I mean?

How do you see the future of what you doing?

After the interview was over,

he took off his mask.

And he looked me dead in my eye and said,

"Please take me with you.

I do not want to die on these streets.

I'm sick of this shit."

And I said, "You know, what is the main reason

why y'all fight so much?

What -- what is the main thing for the bloodshed out here?

Is it the gang life?

Is it the drug territory?"

He said, "Yes, that's it.

But the number-one thing is just pussy and pride."

You know, you just -- you looked at my girl the wrong way.

Or you know...what?

You look too much like me. Bang bang.

And I just looked at him.

And my heart just went out, you know.

And he's gone now.

3:00 in the afternoon,

murdered right there on the street.

This shit is real h--

it's real, like, you know.

I spoke to this kid.

He told me he did not want to die on these streets.

And that's exactly what happened.

He died on those streets.

The people who are illegally buying

and selling guns, you know,

these are people who are on the streets.

They looking to protect themselves.

You know, it's the life is cheap on the streets policy.

I don't think that's gonna stop no time soon unfortunately.