All language subtitles for Jimmy.Savile.-.A.British.Horror.Story.S01E02.WEB.NETFLiX.English
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1
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,320
[man] Whether you believe in
the monster or not,
2
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,480
it would be a strong-willed person
who could pass by Loch Ness
3
00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,960
without keeping an eye out
for something extraordinary.
4
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,640
[wobbles voice]
5
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:35,760
I can't see nothing.
6
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,680
Where are you, you big hairy monster?
Come and have a look at Father Jim.
7
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,920
-What have you really seen so far, Jim?
-Oh, oh, it's a m-- It's a mon--
8
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,360
Oh, it's Phil. Hello.
9
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,280
-Hi.
-Naughty Nessie is not coming out today.
10
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,560
You naughty Nessie!
11
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,520
Have you seriously seen
anything of interest out there?
12
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,600
Yes, she was about 17,
13
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,160
and she had long legs
and long, blonde hair.
14
00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,840
But she wasn't a monster.
15
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,880
[Phil Tibbenham] For years,
scientists have had theories
16
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:25,720
that there is some sort of monster here.
17
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,040
[Savile] There's not one monster
but several monsters.
18
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,960
But they ain't gonna come out today.
19
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,200
'Cause another thing monsters do,
they don't like opposition.
20
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,320
[gentle music playing]
21
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,720
[Meirion Jones]
My investigation
into Jimmy Savile began by chance.
22
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:59,640
My aunt ran Duncroft,
a youth detention center.
23
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,840
Savile arrives when I'm probably about 16.
24
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:09,400
He kept turning up.
25
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:12,960
I thought it was strange.
26
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,760
In the '90s, I became a journalist.
27
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,480
At that point, I was working at the BBC.
28
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,680
Radio news.
29
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,120
I remember talking with other people,
celebrity gossip.
30
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,080
Sometimes you heard "Savile,"
31
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,640
"underage girls."
32
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,360
I would say,
"Where do you know that from?"
33
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,360
And you'd try and see
whether that led anywhere.
34
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,720
But when I tried to track them down,
I could never find a witness or a victim.
35
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,960
The trail went blank
when you tried to follow it.
36
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,160
-Tomato juice or whatever, is it?
-Good idea, yes.
37
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,680
Good morning, all.
38
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,320
[Meirion Jones]
Back then,
I thought it was simple.
39
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,720
We just had to get
the evidence to catch him.
40
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,200
I didn't realize
the whole world around him had to change
41
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:23,960
before the truth could come out.
42
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,160
[siren blaring]
43
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:45,640
[man]
Each Monday at ten,
44
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,720
a siren sounds over 15 miles of Berkshire,
45
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,920
testing the alarm
in case of an escape from Broadmoor.
46
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,920
It opened in 1863
as an asylum for criminal lunatics.
47
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,120
Today's siren call is for change.
48
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,000
For the past seven months,
49
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,760
a task force has been setting up
a stronger therapeutic regime.
50
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,560
Its chairman is Jimmy Savile.
51
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,440
So there's many people say,
"How come a showbiz punter
52
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,240
is doing a job like this at the world's
number one mental hospital?"
53
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,920
[bell ringing]
54
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,600
[men shouting]
55
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,680
Well, I was very surprised
when he was actually--
56
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,040
Virtually had the run of the place,
though he was obviously not qualified
57
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,400
in any psychiatric way.
58
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,800
A sort of honorary
59
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,160
president of the place.
60
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,360
[Savile] Some years ago,
in my copious fan mail,
61
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,880
I got a notice telling me
that I was an honorary member
62
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,480
of Nutters Incorporated.
63
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,320
It's now non-existent,
but it was a club then,
64
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,680
run by some of the patients
65
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,640
at the world-famous Broadmoor Hospital.
66
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,680
And this letter said,
67
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,120
"Dear Jim, you are one of us,
we have sussed that."
68
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,960
"We would like you
to be an honorary member."
69
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,840
So I turned into a special friend,
and I've been there for 17 years now.
70
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,080
[woman] Miles from the nearest town.
71
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,160
Murderers, serial killers,
72
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,680
paranoid schizophrenia,
where they'd have voices in their head.
73
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,480
These were people considered--
74
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,480
Their mental condition was such
that they shouldn't be in prison,
75
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,280
they should be in a hospital.
76
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,000
At the time, I was an investigative
reporter for
The Sunday Times.
77
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,720
I was rung up and told about the story
of these two identical twins,
78
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,920
who had never spoken
to their parents, teachers,
79
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,520
no other school children.
80
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,880
They seemed to take a vow of silence.
81
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,960
But it became more and more sinister.
82
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,320
[sirens wailing]
83
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,400
[Marjorie Wallace]
They went on a six-week spree
84
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,080
of arson.
85
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,320
They set fire to three buildings,
which landed them in Broadmoor.
86
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,200
The twins wanted me to be their voice.
87
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,360
I would go six, seven,
eight times a year to visit them.
88
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,000
Jimmy Savile, I met only once.
89
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,000
I'm sitting there,
90
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,520
June and Jennifer
on either side, we're having our tea,
91
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,640
and suddenly this figure
jumps onto the table,
92
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,000
one of the other tables,
and then onto ours,
93
00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:01,040
with this sort of silky shell suit
in bright colors,
94
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,560
with sparkly trainers, gold rings.
95
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,760
He then looks at the girls,
June and Jennifer,
96
00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:11,880
and he looks at them,
and there's something very strange.
97
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,720
And he says, "I'll have you first."
98
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:16,880
"I'll have you second."
99
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,400
-[man] Morning, Jim.
-[Savile] Morning, team.
100
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,360
-All right, Jim?
-How are you? All right?
101
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,640
[woman] Governing Broadmoor's
a responsible position.
102
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,440
Without any formal qualifications,
103
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,520
how well suited are you for this position?
104
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,600
I have got very formal qualifications.
105
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,280
I've been alive for a long time. I've
learned a lot of things for a long time.
106
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,280
I know how things are done,
and I've done things for a long time…
107
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,520
[Marjorie Wallace] I got in touch
with the Department of Health.
108
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,720
I wrote to the minister, Edwina Currie.
109
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,400
I said, "I'm very worried
about Jimmy Savile,
110
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,040
and how much he could disturb
111
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,520
some of these
extremely disturbed, vulnerable people."
112
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,800
I remember I didn't really get anywhere.
113
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,280
He was too important.
114
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,320
It had been decided.
He was going to be the savior.
115
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,840
[whistle blows]
116
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,640
[Marjorie Wallace] This great liberator
of this frightening institution.
117
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,840
We are a great listening hospital.
118
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,160
We listen to people.
119
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,880
I listen to nurses. I listen to doc--
120
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,840
I listen to porters, to drivers.
I listen to everybody.
121
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,840
[Marjorie Wallace] He was given
his own suite of apartments
122
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,080
and his own key.
123
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,559
Access at any time.
124
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:38,559
They trusted him.
125
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,880
He'd raised over ÂŁ40 million
for Stoke Mandeville.
126
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,200
Edwina Currie
was absolutely bedazzled by him.
127
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:51,560
Everyone was bedazzled by him.
128
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,040
He was like a conjurer.
129
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,120
He mesmerized people.
130
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,000
Jimmy Savile had inordinate power.
131
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,920
[sinister music playing]
132
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,840
[Savile] Look at that.
That is supposed to be me, that.
133
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,440
What did I ever do to you
that you would draw that picture of me?
134
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,280
-[female patient] Everything.
-[Savile gasps]
135
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,760
Super times. Super times for all.
No danger about--
136
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,120
If you don't work in a hospital,
you're really missing something.
137
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,800
In fact, you're missing everything.
138
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,520
[Parkinson] You spend
a lot of time in hospitals.
139
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,160
-[Savile] They are my favorite places.
-[Parkinson] And Leeds.
140
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,680
[Savile] General Infirmary, Leeds,
141
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,680
and a favorite of mine,
Broadmoor Hospital.
142
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,680
[Parkinson] But you're dealing, of course,
143
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,120
mixing with some of the most
dangerous and violent criminals in--
144
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,840
No, they're not criminals.
145
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,360
No, you've got to decide
between the mad and the bad,
146
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,960
which is a simplification
in terms, but if you--
147
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,800
[Parkinson] They're criminals in the sense
that they've broken the law.
148
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,720
Well, yes, but there are people
who break the law knowingly
149
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,160
'cause they're in full possession
of their faculties,
150
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,400
and people who create something,
which is a breaking of the law,
151
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,800
when they were possessed
by something or somebody,
152
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,240
some evil spirit or whatever.
153
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,880
It sounds a bit dramatic,
but that's an easy way of describing it.
154
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,520
So they're not criminals in that sense.
They are patients that need treatment.
155
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,480
[woman] Over the years,
I have treated many people
156
00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:45,880
who have carried out offenses
that are very disturbing.
157
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,400
In my experience of assessing and treating
158
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,680
many, many such individuals
over the last 25 years,
159
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,040
they themselves feel
160
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,240
the only way
for them to benefit from treatment
161
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,160
is to also be punished.
162
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,480
And their attitude tends to be,
"Thank goodness I was caught
163
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:16,320
because I couldn't stop myself."
164
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,520
The General Infirmary at Leeds has been
my second home for over two decades.
165
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,480
-I am a voluntary helper.
-[man] Yeah.
166
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,400
-Sometimes I help the lads.
-Yeah.
167
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,320
And sometimes, when nobody's looking,
I help the lasses.
168
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,320
And we just dodge around,
and I become very useful
169
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,720
if they have a patient
who would need my specialty.
170
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:40,640
[laughs]
171
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,960
There's 5,000 quid
I got from running a marathon…
172
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,600
[Carine Minne]
Not getting caught is a disaster.
173
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,760
Tonight sees the 1,000th edition
of
Top of the Pops.
174
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,640
Ladies and gentlemen, how are you?
175
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,320
We're surrounded by loveliness.
Tell 'em what's happening…
176
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,200
[Carine Minne] What happens to the person
who commits crime
177
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,160
over a hugely long period of time?
178
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,080
[man] 25 years of
Top of the Pops!
179
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,120
Jim'll Fix It
starts up again on Saturdays.
180
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,760
[Carine Minne]
I would say that they're actually
181
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,440
triumphant at getting away with it.
182
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,840
That there's something terribly exciting
183
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,480
about being able
to pull the wool over people's eyes,
184
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:18,960
to be able to deceive people.
185
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,240
If you go to South Kirkby,
some of the old miners, when you say,
186
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,320
"Jimmy Savile's done well, hasn't he?"
He'll look around, and he'll say,
187
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,320
-"He's not what you think, you know."
-[laughter]
188
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,720
"The forces of darkness
are at work there."
189
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,120
[laughter]
190
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,440
[Carine Minne] It fuels
the sense of triumphalism,
191
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,320
the omnipotence.
192
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,600
[Andrew Neil] What has prompted you
to devote so much time to charity?
193
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,160
What should I do?
Sit and look at the wall?
194
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,480
Just 'cause I like it.
195
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,360
I don't really
have to justify why I like it.
196
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:51,840
All I can say is that
197
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,200
I've been at Stoke and Broadmoor Hospital,
Leeds Infirmary for about 28 years,
198
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,400
purely as a voluntary worker.
199
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,720
I do it 'cause I love it unashamedly.
200
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,080
And 28 minutes is a gimmick, but 28 years…
201
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,920
You've gotta like it
to stick it for 28 years.
202
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,640
[applause]
203
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,360
[Andrew Neil] Jimmy Savile
was a huge figure,
204
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,440
but he was also an enigma.
205
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,280
I had been
with
The Economist for ten years.
206
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,640
I made documentaries for the BBC.
207
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,840
I was editor of
The Sunday Times
of London for 11 years.
208
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,080
He'd never been interviewed
by somebody like me.
209
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,920
I suspected there was something amiss.
210
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,520
Being a DJ, of course,
didn't just bring you fame,
211
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,400
it brought you girls. Lots of girls.
212
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,000
-Did it?
-Well, I think it did.
213
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,200
-You said it did.
-Goodbye. Nice to see you.
214
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,960
-Maybe too many to remember?
-Eh?
215
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,600
Are we talking about a life,
in the '60s and '70s, of lots of lovers?
216
00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:52,480
That's a long time ago. I've forgotten.
217
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,240
[audience laughs]
218
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,720
[Andrew Neil] We had found nobody
who had done a kiss-and-tell,
219
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,640
and I should stress
that the people doing the research
220
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,080
were hard-bitten tabloid journalists.
221
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,920
He
said he had all these women
chasing him. He had all these girlfriends.
222
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,480
But our research team
couldn't find a single woman,
223
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,520
girl, teenager he had dated.
224
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,440
Not one.
225
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,160
I never have been a grass.
226
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,640
A gentleman never grasses
on ladies he's ever--
227
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,040
We're not asking for names.
228
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,200
We just wanna know if you live this,
sort of, playboy life of a DJ.
229
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,480
Yeah, give or take a few nice ladies.
230
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,280
[laughter]
231
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,040
Why have you shied away
from close relationships?
232
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,240
I'm quite happy
to have a few close relationships tonight
233
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,680
if anybody's not spoken for.
234
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,000
Why, in the past,
have you avoided close relationships?
235
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,680
'Cause I've never been in the same town
more than 48 hours at any one time.
236
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,080
It's just the lifestyle I've got.
It's not my fault.
237
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,640
Have relationships and sex--
238
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,160
-Eh?
-…been casual?
239
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,680
[laughter]
240
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,880
-He mentioned the s-word.
-[raucous laughter]
241
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,880
We had to get to it eventually.
242
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:01,840
-Did you?!
-Well…
243
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,040
Ooh, you're talking to the wrong guy here.
244
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:05,520
Mr. "No Grass" here.
245
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600
We never see them.
Never even a snapped picture--
246
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:09,840
-Me too.
-[laughter]
247
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,080
-They don't really exist, do they?
-Me too!
248
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,440
-Not really, no. No.
-They don't really exist.
249
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,040
No, they don't. I told you I was boring.
250
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,760
But is it just a façade?
251
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,840
-All the playboy image?
-Yes. Yes.
252
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,080
-Yes, I'm very--
-Or is that answer part of the façade?
253
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:26,120
No, no. [laughs]
254
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,960
-You ca-- You can't win here.
-[laughter]
255
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,560
There you go.
It's all part of a façade, and…
256
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,080
[hesitates]
257
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,160
…I am very boring.
258
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:36,680
Thank God.
259
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,840
[Andrew Neil] The only woman we could find
260
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,480
that had played
any part in his life was his mother.
261
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,600
And the more we looked at it,
262
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,280
the more it seemed he had a rather
unhealthy relationship with his mother.
263
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,480
You called her The Duchess.
We spoke to your sister, Joan Johnson.
264
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,960
When he was young,
I think it was when he was so ill,
265
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200
Mother really became attached to him,
266
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,600
and he became attached to Mother.
He idolized Mum.
267
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,400
[woman]
When he was
two and a half years old,
268
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,720
he fell out of his pram.
269
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,480
He was very, very seriously ill.
270
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,040
In fact, the doctor said…
In the end, he said,
271
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,760
"Well, I won't come again,
Mrs. Savile," he said,
272
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,040
"Let me know when Jimmy dies,
and I'll send you the death certificate."
273
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,480
We're great believers in prayer.
274
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,440
Quarter to three, when I was
in the cathedral, immediately
275
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,480
Jimmy went to sleep and woke up normal.
276
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,400
And he's-- If you call him normal now.
[chuckles]
277
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,360
-When she died, you sat with her…
-Yeah. Yeah.
278
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,320
-…for five days.
-That's what it said in the papers.
279
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,160
But the impression we got
was that you sat with her for a long time
280
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,840
because something
very important had happened,
281
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,760
and you wished to come to terms with it.
282
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,720
-I suppose, but it was a bit different--
-So it did happen?
283
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,200
Not really, no.
Not really in the macabre sense.
284
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,600
It was in the good-fun sense because…
285
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,319
-"Fun"?
-…on the Sunday-- Yes.
286
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,640
What was in your mind
when you sat with her?
287
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,079
When she was here,
I had to share her with everybody,
288
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,440
and now I don't
have to share her with everybody
289
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,319
'cause I've got her all on my own now,
so that's all right.
290
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,720
[Alison Bellamy] So this is Jimmy
as a child at Consort Terrace, I believe.
291
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:34,160
Um…
292
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,520
So this is a rare family photograph,
293
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,600
which in the thir--
1940 it was taken, of the family…
294
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,200
of the Savile family, so his mum and dad.
295
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,560
Jimmy was the youngest of seven,
296
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,360
so he was at home with his mum.
297
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,800
[Savile] Now, listen, sweetheart,
there are seven of us, aren't there?
298
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:58,760
Yes.
299
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,680
[Savile] I am the last one, right?
300
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,200
[mother] Correct.
301
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,600
[Savile] Was I, as the last one, expected,
or did you think I was an attack of wind?
302
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,600
You were not expected.
Not until-- Even from the August.
303
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,000
-You didn't know I was on the way, then?
-No.
304
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,240
-You didn't really want me, then?
-I wanted you when I knew.
305
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,840
[Savile] Why did you beat me
so much in my youth, then?
306
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,720
-I didn't beat you enough.
-Didn't beat me enough?
307
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:25,800
Ladies and gentlemen--
308
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,720
Spare the rod and spoil the child.
That was the case with you.
309
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,920
[Alison Bellamy] One with his beloved mum,
The Duchess.
310
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,720
They were a Catholic family.
There's a crucifix.
311
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,560
Church every Sunday
and going to confession and things,
312
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,000
a big part of their lives.
313
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:48,960
This was his bible.
314
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:52,440
Little prayer cards.
315
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,800
He's underlined "The greatest gift
of heaven's store, peace,"
316
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,320
and he's underlined "peace."
317
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,960
[church bell ringing]
318
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,040
[Mark Lawson]
I grew up in Leeds as a Catholic.
319
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,200
I do have clear memories
of having seen him
320
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,160
at church.
321
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,960
He was very, very recognizable
and distinctive.
322
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,600
[marching band playing]
323
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,960
I don't think
you can understand Jimmy Savile
324
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,120
without appreciating
that he was a Catholic.
325
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,600
Our church is situated in a fold…
326
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,840
I believe in God because,
327
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,160
if nothing else, it's a good gamble.
328
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,880
If you try to live by a decent code,
329
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,680
a reasonably decent code,
as well as you can manage,
330
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:54,360
uh, then it's a hope
that when the time comes,
331
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,320
that you go off into,
332
00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,040
for the want of a better word,
a life hereafter and a heaven.
333
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,920
There are many sorts of gods.
334
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
There's the god, uh,
335
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:07,800
of…
336
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,120
My-- Of my own god,
337
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,800
who is a god possibly molded
to my own image a little bit
338
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,320
insofar as he suits me.
339
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,440
My god is for me,
and I reckon I've come off best
340
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,120
because my god is a real great guy.
He's, uh…
341
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,360
Great sense of humor.
342
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,040
I must catch him
on his good days, I think.
343
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,840
[applause]
344
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,680
[cheering]
345
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,360
[Mark Lawson] There's a constant theme
in Jimmy Savile's interviews.
346
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520
People say, "Why do you do
so much charitable work?"
347
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,360
And what he says is,
348
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,200
"When I'm dead and I go to Heaven,
349
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,000
and God and Saint Peter,
they assess my life,
350
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,840
I'll be able to say,
351
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,840
'On this side of the ledger
is all the stuff,
352
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,000
all the money I've raised for charity,
353
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,720
all the lives I've changed.'"
354
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,960
-[starting pistol fires]
-[cheering]
355
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,840
[man] For the first time in history,
356
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,200
a bishop of Rome
357
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,800
sets foot
358
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,680
on English soil.
359
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,040
[reporter]
Appropriately, on an occasion
like this, John Paul II met Jimmy Savile,
360
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,600
well-known for the work
he's done with paraplegics
361
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,440
at Stoke Mandeville Hospital.
362
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:36,880
[Mark Lawson] Throughout his life, it was,
363
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,240
the more he was doing on the bad side,
the more he had to do on the good side.
364
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,080
I am convinced that
that is how his mind worked
365
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,760
because he's telling you that.
366
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,440
Come Judgment Day,
you, me, I mean, stand up anybody
367
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,560
who was so good they'll walk
straight through the golden gates.
368
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,040
Are there any of you here?
I'd like to meet you.
369
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,840
I think we'll all have a hard time.
370
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,760
Me, when I stand in front of the table
and Saint Peter's there,
371
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760
and he says, "You are not coming in,"
372
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,440
I'll say, "Why not?"
He'll say, "Cause you're a villain."
373
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,560
He'll show the debit side.
I'll say, "Hang about."
374
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,080
I'll show him the credits.
"Does that mean anything?"
375
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,480
If he says, "That means nothing,"
I'll threaten to break his fingers…
376
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:17,600
[laughter]
377
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,000
I don't know anybody
who's gonna get an easy ride into Heaven.
378
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,600
-[applause]
-[chattering]
379
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,160
[reporter]
Famed for raising millions,
he's been in showbiz a lifetime,
380
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,040
and on his 70th birthday,
he's slowing down but not stopping.
381
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,240
[Savile] 20 years on
Top of The Pops,
20 years on
Jim'll Fix It.
382
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,960
I'm doing the next 20 as a legend.
383
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,360
[shouting, cheering]
384
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,280
[Meirion Jones] I suspected
that things had gone on.
385
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,080
That there'd been
sexual assaults by Savile.
386
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,520
But we needed evidence.
387
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,360
Most of the evidence is gonna be
the eyewitness accounts of the victims…
388
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,640
who are young,
389
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,680
often vulnerable.
390
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,160
Can we find any victims?
391
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,160
[dial-up tone beeping]
392
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,480
Britain's first dial-a-video service
was unveiled today,
393
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,360
a new way of linking personal computers
through the phone system
394
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,000
to the so-called
"information superhighway."
395
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,400
You can have access to almost anything.
396
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,280
The answer to everything
in the world is on the Net.
397
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,000
[Meirion Jones] Maybe once a year,
if I had time, I'd search for Duncroft.
398
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,960
It was one of those things
on my list of backstories
399
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,520
that I'd return to
and see if I could find anything.
400
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:05,760
And you couldn't.
401
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,240
There was no references.
402
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,320
In '94, I was the editor
of the
Sunday Mirror,
403
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,320
a national newspaper in the UK.
404
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,680
Because the girls were vulnerable
or had troubled backgrounds,
405
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,880
even though I was the editor,
I did actually go to meet them myself
406
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,760
rather than sending somebody else.
407
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,280
They told me Savile would take them out
408
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,560
and have sexual relationships with them
409
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,040
either in his Rolls Royce or in a van.
410
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,480
[Savile] We have all the vehicles
that I could possibly need
411
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,960
to get from A to B,
412
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,200
including my own traveling home.
413
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,920
This is a ÂŁ6,000-odd motor caravan.
414
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,520
It's not an odd motor caravan!
It's ÂŁ6,000-odd.
415
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,640
[Paul Connew] In one girl's case only,
416
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,160
she was taken backstage
at one of his programs,
417
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,120
and then taken off to a flat near the BBC,
418
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,520
where Savile had
sexual relationships with her.
419
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,640
And she, at the time, I think,
would have been about 14, from memory.
420
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,720
They were nervous and frightened.
421
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,720
I mean, they had to be coaxed.
422
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,960
One of them said to me that--
423
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,680
This is something I'll never forget.
I can almost remember it verbatim.
424
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,240
"Who's going to believe us,
a pair of former approved school girls,
425
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,800
when Jimmy Savile is, in fact--
Been honored by the pope,
426
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,160
that he's a friend
of Prince Charles and Princess Diana
427
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,800
and Margaret Thatcher."
428
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,400
"You know, who is gonna believe us?"
429
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,960
[bagpipes playing]
430
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,640
[Paul Connew]
I had to tell them candidly that
431
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,320
Savile would be obliged to sue for libel,
432
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:31,240
so they would also have to
come and testify in the witness box.
433
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,360
But they wanted to see Savile exposed.
434
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,320
[interviewer] You have this image
as a horrid man.
435
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320
-I didn't know I had that.
-Well-- People are frightened of you.
436
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,840
[George Carman]
People are frightened.
437
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,680
[Dominic Carman] By the 1980s,
my father was a very well-known lawyer.
438
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,520
A lawyer whom celebrities used,
and a celebrity in his own right.
439
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,720
My father talked endlessly
and obsessively about his work
440
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,360
and, frankly, little else.
441
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,400
I was aware that he did prominent cases.
442
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,720
He represented a number of politicians,
443
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,640
every newspaper
and television group at one time,
444
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,720
and a range of film stars, pop stars,
TV personalities, and so on.
445
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,440
He acted for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman.
446
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,360
And, I suppose, the most prominent
would be Princess Diana.
447
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,720
What he was best known for was defamation.
448
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,720
Elton John was paid hundreds of thousands
of pounds by Mirror Group Newspapers
449
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,840
for false allegations
in relation to his personal life.
450
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,320
He was a brilliant cross-examiner.
451
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,760
Who would I least like
to be questioned by?
452
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:54,880
George Carman.
453
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,680
[interviewer] I think the anxiety
many people would have would be that,
454
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,040
in the end,
whose private life would stand up
455
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:04,920
to a cross-examination by George Carman?
456
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,400
We've all done things
we shouldn't have that we're ashamed of.
457
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,240
Absolutely.
You are exposing any weaknesses
458
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,280
or deficiencies in your own life
for public scrutiny.
459
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,880
Say you have a particularly sleazy client?
460
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,320
Well, certainly all my clients
haven't been angels,
461
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,120
and a few have been far below that.
462
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,440
[Dominic Carman] I once saw my father
with Jimmy Savile
463
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,320
in a hotel in Bournemouth in 1976.
464
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,720
My father went over, said, "Hi,"
and that was it, and we left.
465
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Later, my father made some comment,
which I don't think I either understood
466
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,200
or took terribly seriously,
and it was very much to the effect,
467
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,280
"I could tell you a lot
about Jimmy Savile."
468
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,120
"He's not all he seems to be."
469
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,680
[Paul Connew] We were just about to
literally publish.
470
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,600
The two girls,
471
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,000
the husband of one of them,
he stepped in and said,
472
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,440
"Look, this is gonna be terrible
for the children."
473
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,120
"We've not told the children
anything about this."
474
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,600
"We don't want them
to know about your past."
475
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,880
That was what terrified them.
Once they lost their nerve, that was it.
476
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,000
After we had to acknowledge defeat
that we couldn't do the Savile exposé,
477
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,960
I had a phone call from
478
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,040
a man called George Carman QC.
479
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,080
George phoned me up and said,
"Oh, by the way, Paul,
480
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,000
Jimmy Savile was very pleased
481
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,880
that you're not going ahead
with the story about him."
482
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,920
I said, "George, that's fascinating.
How do you know about it?"
483
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,680
I said, "The only way you can know
about it is via Jimmy Savile himself."
484
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,280
And I said,
"For what it's worth, George, in fact,
485
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,960
I believed everything I've been told
486
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,440
by two girls
about Jimmy Savile's behavior."
487
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,000
"The guy is a pedophile."
488
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,360
Um…
489
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,520
And Carman chuckled and said,
490
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,360
"You may well be right."
491
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,280
Um…
492
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,840
And, uh, that was it.
493
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,920
[producer] Was it not something
you might've told the police?
494
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,040
[Paul Connew] I did, in fact, tell
a fairly senior police officer contact.
495
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,120
He basically said,
"Look, unless we've got clear evidence,
496
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,320
almost film and footage
of these things, it's not--"
497
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,240
"Juries probably won't believe them."
498
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,080
So there was this attitude
of the police at the time,
499
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,880
you know,
of almost a defeatist approach to this.
500
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Police throughout Britain
are discovering more and more cases
501
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,520
of organized child sex abuse.
502
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,440
'Cause, in those days, I suppose,
503
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,640
it's right to say that the police
didn't understand what was going on.
504
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,040
The police service
didn't see it as a problem.
505
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,480
Officers used to say,
"Well, that's a women's job."
506
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,000
Or just, "I don't wanna do that."
507
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,640
"I wanna go on The Flying Squad.
I wanna nick robbers."
508
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,440
"I don't wanna deal with kids."
509
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,080
[man 1] We're police officers.
We have a warrant to search the premises.
510
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,280
[man 2] Sorry to burst in on you
like this.
511
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,400
[reporter]
The national index
of pedophiles
512
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,600
now has more than 3,000 names.
513
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,080
[Mike Hames] I can't say how many are
in there. We're too busy to count them.
514
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,480
But I can tell you
that it's rising every day.
515
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Some people would say
you're exaggerating the problem.
516
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,200
We're actually dealing with cases all over
the country on a day-to-day basis.
517
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,960
Here in the underground vaults
518
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,520
of Scotland Yard's
Obscene Publications Squad,
519
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,680
there are literally thousands
of child pornographic videos,
520
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,040
magazines, and films.
521
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,520
[reporter]
Scotland Yard
have allocated six officers
522
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600
to work investigating pedophiles.
523
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,040
That's my lot.
524
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,680
Staff was not forthcoming.
When I left, I still only had 16 officers.
525
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,440
The only national squad
targeting child abusers.
526
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:00,360
The only one.
527
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,440
There's a computer system in there, and
we want to make sure that the man inside
528
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,120
doesn't have time
to destroy all his files. Kevin who's…
529
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,640
[reporter]
The head of the unit
fears that public awareness of the problem
530
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,320
is lagging far behind.
531
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,240
That's one of the reasons
why we used television, in particular,
532
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,680
to try and get the message across.
533
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,320
We would take the cameras with us.
534
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:22,800
[tools whirring]
535
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,760
[crashing]
536
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:25,640
[man] Police officers.
537
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,800
[woman] Go away!
538
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,280
Oh [bleep] off, will you.
539
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,520
Go on, [bleep] off!
540
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,080
[Mike Hames] At any one time,
541
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,280
I had 100 operations.
542
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,840
I realized that
it's a different type of criminal.
543
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,040
[applause]
544
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,000
They weren't without brains.
545
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,080
They manipulate the people around them.
546
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,400
Family, friends,
people that they work with.
547
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,800
These people create
this other world almost.
548
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,520
They live almost a parallel life.
549
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,960
They try to fuck with your head as well.
550
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,600
You are about the most
recognizable character in the country.
551
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,160
But I think what people think now,
looking at you now,
552
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440
they'll think, "Who's looking after him?
Who's cooking his dinner?"
553
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,440
Nobody.
554
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,400
Your own man, an individual,
555
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,640
but on the other hand
the other Jimmy Savile
556
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,480
is a fairly anonymous character.
557
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,840
Ooh. Very ordinary and thick.
558
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,280
You're thick, are you?
559
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,360
[chuckles]
560
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,480
[Mike Hames] 1998.
561
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,800
Four years after I left the police,
my former colleagues received a letter,
562
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,960
which reads,
563
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,000
"I supply here information, which,
564
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,200
if looked into by one of your officers,
will yield a secret life."
565
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,440
"I cannot give you my name
as I'm too closely involved,
566
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,040
and I do not wish to be in the limelight
and have the finger pointed at myself."
567
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,400
"And if you think this is not
a genuine letter, then it's your loss."
568
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,199
"The image that Jimmy Savile
has tried to portray over the years
569
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,000
is someone who is
deeply concerned with his fellow man."
570
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,800
"However, the thrust of this
is entirely the opposite."
571
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,960
"His fundraising activities
are not out of altruistic motives
572
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,040
but purely for selfish advancement
and an easy living."
573
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,760
"Did you know
that he's a deeply committed pedophile
574
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,080
and involved in buggery
with young children?"
575
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,320
"He thinks he's untouchable
because of the people he mixes with,
576
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,280
and, again, I know from my personal
experience that they find him amusing."
577
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,960
"Please do not let him
get away with this perversion."
578
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,679
"Don't let him
continue to think he's untouchable
579
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,520
or that his secret is too well hidden."
580
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,400
"I've done my duty,
my conscience is clear."
581
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,320
"You have the time, power,
and resources to wheedle him out
582
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,720
and expose him for what he really is."
583
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,120
"If you think this is a hoax
or a crank letter, think again."
584
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,400
"It's not I who suffer
if you do nothing, but the children."
585
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,920
It was from an anonymous source,
586
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,640
so, therefore, it would have been
quite a low level in terms of
587
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:30,840
"Can we believe this?"
588
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,760
On the other hand,
it's not something you'd throw away.
589
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,720
Because he was living
in Leeds at the time,
590
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:41,720
up north,
591
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,440
it was obvious that it would be
sent to Leeds for investigation.
592
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,800
[Alison Bellamy] Each city has a few
famous people who come from there,
593
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,680
and Jimmy was
the most famous person from Leeds.
594
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,080
-[car horn beeps]
-[shouting] Jimmy!
595
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,200
[Alison Bellamy] He loved Leeds.
Still lived there.
596
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:11,800
He was adored by people.
597
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,280
They absolutely loved him.
598
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,880
I was working at
the
Yorkshire Evening Post,
599
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,760
the regional evening paper in Leeds.
600
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,320
He used to predict
charity football scores each week,
601
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,120
so the sports desk asked me once,
602
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,440
"Would you give Jimmy Savile a ring
to get his charity scores?"
603
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,360
I was, like, "Wow! Yeah, that's great."
604
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,160
And we had a laugh. We got on.
605
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:39,480
I was his contact
to get the good stories in the paper.
606
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,360
He called me, as a joke,
his "head of media" or "good-news girl."
607
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:46,720
We became sort of friends.
608
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,120
[Savile wobbles voice]
609
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,000
All the world is uphill.
610
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,800
And the Yorkshire uphill…
611
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:57,680
leads to Heaven.
612
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,920
[Alison Bellamy] He had a flat
overlooking Roundhay Park.
613
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,200
A penthouse flat on the top floor.
614
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,360
[Savile singing]
Very very good, very good
Very very good, very very very very good
615
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,640
Very very good, very good
Very very very very good
616
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,280
Oh! Very very good…
617
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,000
[muttered singing]
618
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,760
-Oh, it should be now.
-[bell dings]
619
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,200
[Savile cheers]
620
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,200
It is the place I was born in,
the city I was born in,
621
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,240
and I wake up under the same patch of sky
622
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,040
today as when I worked down the pit.
Come and have a look at the view.
623
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,680
[Alison Bellamy] It took him
a while to trust me and to be--
624
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,520
Maybe a couple of years
from first speaking to him.
625
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,080
But one-- It was a Friday, he rang me
at work in the morning and said,
626
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,640
"How are you fixed today?"
627
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,920
"Do you want to come
to the Friday Morning Club?"
628
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,720
The FMC, he called it.
629
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,160
It was like a get-together.
There were some regulars,
630
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,760
some West Yorkshire police officer friends
631
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,320
who would be there,
you know, off duty, not in uniform.
632
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,120
I remember once arriving just as the
group of policemen were leaving, so--
633
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,360
As if I was the next appointment.
634
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,120
Well, he had a group of police friends
635
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,120
from the local force in Yorkshire,
636
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,440
who would come around for a regular…
I think it was a Friday morning meeting.
637
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,800
[producer] Did that strike you as unusual?
638
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,280
I didn't see it as a bad thing,
but probably now,
639
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,480
you're sort of wondering
if it was keeping…
640
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,480
people with power on his side.
641
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,120
[Alison Bellamy]
They were starstruck by him.
642
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,160
If he'd received a fan letter, he might
read it out and have a bit of a laugh.
643
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,480
He would say, "I've had another letter
from a nutter, and-- Claiming all sorts."
644
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,280
[producer] What did you think
he meant by "nutters' letters"?
645
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,200
That they were from crazy people
who didn't have…
646
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,480
who didn't have their right mind,
who were making things up about him,
647
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,840
um, and were, you know,
648
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,160
making a claim to something
that wasn't true.
649
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,760
[crowd shouting]Â Six, five,
four, three, two, one!
650
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,480
-[bell chimes]
-[cheering]
651
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,720
-[fireworks exploding]
-[crowd cheering]
652
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,720
[bell chimes]
653
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,160
[cheering, whistling]
654
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:52,000
[fireworks exploding]
655
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,280
[Ricky Gervais] My next guest
656
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,520
is Sir Jimmy Savile.
657
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,960
[applause, whistling]
658
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,440
[Alison Bellamy]
The early 2000s,
despite him being an OAP,
659
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,600
he was in demand
40 years after the peak of his fame.
660
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,480
Got your own room
at Broadmoor mental home?
661
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,800
I've had it for 35 years.
662
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,480
You're amaze-- How old are you?
663
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:15,640
Gettin' on for 100.
664
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:19,040
Gettin' on for 100?!
You look absolutely brilliant on it.
665
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,560
[Alison Bellamy]
He loved the attention.
666
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,520
He thrived on it. Still.
667
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,480
Thing is, all the New York rappers,
they all wanna look like you.
668
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,640
You were bling before bling was bling.
669
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:33,800
[laughter]
670
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,840
I was bling just after Henry VIII.
671
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,360
[applause, laughter]
672
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,080
[Alison Bellamy]
He absolutely loved that.
673
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,640
And he loved being young and trendy.
674
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:48,360
[man] Oh my life. Morning, Jimmy.
What are you up to at the moment?
675
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,480
What I'm up to
is actually not getting caught.
676
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,120
Um… Avoiding--
677
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,560
[man] Unlike Gary Glitter, of course.
Allegedly.
678
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,520
Not getting caught.
679
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,000
[cheering]
680
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,400
I can't believe that I'm back.
681
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,640
I never went away really.
682
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,480
[screaming, cheering]
683
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,000
[laughter, chatting]
684
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,360
-This is the legendary Jimmy Savile.
-Hello!
685
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,400
[Ian Hislop] In Britain,
at a certain point in your life,
686
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,000
you change from being eccentric and weird,
687
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,560
to being a national treasure.
688
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,160
With Ian Hislop tonight, Jimmy Savile.
689
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:42,560
[applause]
690
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,760
[Ian Hislop] Everybody decides
you've been around so long
691
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,120
that you're marvelous,
and you should be feted.
692
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,720
-You used to be a wrestler, didn't you?
-I still am.
693
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,600
-Are you?
-[laughter]
694
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,160
I'm feared in every girls' school
in this country.
695
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:59,360
[laughter]
696
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,280
[applause]
697
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,160
[sound continues through TV]
698
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:10,080
Extraordinary.
699
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,680
I mean, I'd forgotten
how much the audience liked that joke.
700
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,560
[laughter]
701
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,280
[Ian Hislop] He managed to coexist
with a public image
702
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,720
of being a national treasure,
hugely valued.
703
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,960
And also a sort of underground image,
704
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,360
that he was a deeply creepy bloke
who was up to no good. Um…
705
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:33,880
And it was very, very difficult to get
your head round both of these things.
706
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,000
Didn't you live in a caravan?
707
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,760
-Twelve years I lived in a motor caravan.
-What do you do in the caravan?
708
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,360
Anybody I can lay me hands on.
709
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,160
[laughter, applause]
710
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,480
I'm sure he was booked on the program
'cause he was a controversial figure.
711
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,440
By this time,
he was giving odd interviews,
712
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,280
and people were beginning to think,
"What
are you doing?"
713
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,640
I might be jumping off things
and kidnapping local ladies
714
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,160
because I live in Glencoe,
715
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:07,880
and we rustle cattle up there,
and we also kidnap ladies and sell them.
716
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,240
[chuckles awkwardly]
Yeah. Thanks very much!
717
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,320
[Ian Hislop] He was a deeply creepy bloke,
but people didn't mind this,
718
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,480
and that was about the level of it.
719
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,360
There was a huge amount
of rumor about Jimmy Savile.
720
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,200
[host] Oh, I wanted to lose…
721
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,920
[Ian Hislop] Top rumor,
he sleeps with people
722
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,760
who may be a bit young.
723
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,680
Why do you say in interviews
that you hate children?
724
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,680
Because we live in a very funny world,
and it's easier for me, as a single man,
725
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,240
to say, "I don't like children."
726
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,120
Are you basically saying that
so tabloids don't, you know,
727
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,960
pursue this whole "Is he/isn't he
a pedophile?" line, basically?
728
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,560
Yes. Oh aye.
How do they know whether I am or not?
729
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,920
How does anybody know whether I am?
Nobody knows whether I am or not.
730
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:58,840
I know I'm not.
731
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,360
[Mark Lawson]
For most of the 20th century,
732
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,840
it was easy for a rich,
powerful, well-known person
733
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,360
to get away
with some really quite terrible stuff.
734
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,040
But the reason for that
was that the only forum
735
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,400
in which those allegations
could be aired was the mainstream media.
736
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,720
When the stuff about
"Jimmy Savile is a pedophile"
737
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,560
in various forms started appearing
on the gossip site Popbitch,
738
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,280
it was one of the most common pieces
of information they received.
739
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,560
There is no gatekeeping online.
740
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,880
In the coming weeks,
Jimmy Savile will turn 80 years of age.
741
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,440
So when he invited me across
to his bachelor pad in Leeds,
742
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,040
I arrived there with a mixture
of fascination, bewilderment,
743
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:04,480
and downright curiosity.
744
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,640
There's a lot of scandalous things,
745
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,400
I'm sure you know about this,
on the Internet, about you--
746
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Not even worth mentioning here
the nature of the stories.
747
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,600
When you read those, how does it feel?
Is it water off a duck's back?
748
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,560
I don't have an Internet.
I don't have a computer.
749
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,920
I don't have Internet.
I don't know what an email is.
750
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,720
I don't know anything about that world.
751
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,920
-[woman]
There have been nasty rumors--
-[Savile]
Eh? Good heavens.
752
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,960
-[laughs]
"Good heavens."
-[Savile]
I never heard any of 'em.
753
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,640
[woman]
Um, these claims of abuse.
754
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:52,600
-How--
-[Savile]
What claims of abuse?
755
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,720
[woman]
Claims of abuse
with you and young children?
756
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,000
[Savile]
Never heard it in my life.
757
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,440
-Never heard of it?
-Never heard of it in my life.
758
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,880
-[woman inhales]
But…
-[Savile hesitates]
759
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,200
I have a life like Jim'll Fix It.
We don't listen to things like that.
760
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,560
[woman]
There's no way
you were going to respond to any of it?
761
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,760
[Savile]
What's the point of responding
to something if it's not true?
762
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:14,800
You don't do it.
763
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,000
[woman]
Hm.
764
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,720
[Savile]
And if anybody
says things like that, no problem,
765
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,040
'cause all you can expect
from a pig is a grunt.
766
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:22,960
[woman]
Hm.
767
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,880
Jimmy's 80th birthday, I was there
as a guest. There weren't many of us.
768
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,040
It is, of course, Sir James Savile.
As well as greetings from round the world,
769
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,080
he's been treated to
a number of birthday cakes, which will…
770
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,240
[Alison Bellamy] Because it was
his 80th birthday,
771
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,040
I wrote a series of features about him.
772
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,560
The features editor said,
773
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,920
"You've got to ask him
to address the rumors."
774
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,560
Jimmy said, "Oh, that's a load of baloney.
It comes with the territory."
775
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,320
"When I was a DJ they'd queue up outside
the dressing room door, these groupies."
776
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,680
It's been an amazing life…
777
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,640
[Alison Bellamy]
"Why have I not been charged?"
778
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,840
"There's never been any trial."
He was quite adamant. He was quite…
779
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,880
[inhales]
…keen to show his conscience was clear.
780
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,320
Welcome to the very last
Top of the Pops.
781
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,080
[audience groans]
782
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,760
Forty-two years ago, I said, "Welcome
to the very first
Top of the Pops."
783
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,120
Been going for 42 years.
It belongs to the world. Now they're…
784
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,240
[Alison Bellamy]
I didn't want it to be true.
785
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,040
It did make me think.
It was at the back of my mind.
786
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,120
Because I
was a journalist,
if it was a story,
787
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,520
I would've tried to chase it
or get the story.
788
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,200
I was younger, and I was…
789
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:37,920
I was ambitious and keen, you know.
790
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,560
I couldn't find
any evidence of it, and I--
791
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,320
I could-- Not heard of any victims.
Not in Leeds, anyway, the area I covered.
792
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,080
[woman] I never told anybody anything.
793
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,280
I kept all of that to myself.
794
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,080
I was about eleven.
795
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,480
We went to church every week.
796
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,840
To the little chapel
at Stoke Mandeville Hospital.
797
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,600
They'd come in the wheelchairs,
sometimes come in beds.
798
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,320
Me and my little brother sitting together.
799
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,680
We used to get
into a fit of giggles at church.
800
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,400
[emotional music playing]
801
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,280
[Sam Brown] Jimmy Savile
was part of the hospital.
802
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,400
As a child, I only knew
that he was an important person.
803
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,040
I didn't really know
804
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,640
why he was there.
805
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,040
He used to go to church
and go into presbytery,
806
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,080
which was just a tiny room
807
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,680
that overlooked the service,
808
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,240
where the wine was kept
809
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,200
and the collection plates were kept.
810
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,320
It kind of became my job
to go and collect the plates.
811
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,120
I'd have to reach past him,
812
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,840
and then I'd have to turn around
813
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,920
and wait for the right time
in the mass to go out with my plate
814
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,120
to pass that around the congregation.
815
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,240
At the beginning, it was all very much,
816
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,960
you know, he'd put his arms
round my waist,
817
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,160
or he'd stroke my back.
818
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,400
And as the weeks progressed,
819
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,640
you know, he would then put--
820
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:22,120
It would go from touching me like that,
and then it would be putting his hands,
821
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,040
um…
822
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,200
down my trousers,
823
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:26,680
um…
824
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,520
touching my skin.
825
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:30,960
So that…
826
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,320
'Cause we always used--
You have your Sunday-best type clothes.
827
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,400
You go to church, and you don't…
828
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,000
you don't wear jeans
and trousers, you know, you…
829
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,400
You go dressed very neatly.
830
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,880
That obviously became
a real problem for me
831
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,320
because it left me
832
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,080
open and vulnerable
and easy to be touched, so, um…
833
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,080
Caused a lot of arguments
with my mum when I was little
834
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,320
because I would try and wear things
that would protect me more.
835
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,360
So I used to…
836
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,360
Um, it got to the stage where, of course,
obviously, he'd be in my knickers,
837
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:11,960
and he'd be putting his
838
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,080
fingers inside of me.
839
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,080
And he would…
840
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:17,720
um…
841
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,040
put his arm around me
and put his whole hand…
842
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:25,840
he would put inside of my mouth,
which, um…
843
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,880
I couldn't breathe, you know.
I couldn't breathe, but…
844
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,080
I started to try and find ways of…
845
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:33,760
um…
846
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,880
wearing more clothes.
847
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,680
I used to wear,
like, three pairs of knickers.
848
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,080
You know, I was 11.
I hadn't started my periods, but my…
849
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,640
I found Tampaxes in the bathroom,
850
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,400
and probably for about
half an hour before church--
851
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,960
And I can remember rowing--
My mum would be shouting,
852
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,360
"Hurry up. Get out the bathroom."
853
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,360
But I can remember
putting Tampaxes into my bottom.
854
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,120
[voice quivers] And that was so painful
855
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,360
to have to do that.
856
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,320
But I used to try
and think of all different ways
857
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,680
just to fill myself up
so he couldn't put his hands in me.
858
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,000
When he used to
put all his hands in my mouth,
859
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,160
I think, in a weird way,
860
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,320
that was the one that…
861
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,040
I know it probably
doesn't sound right saying it…
862
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,920
[sniffles] …but that felt worse sometimes
863
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,120
than if he had his fingers inside of me
while I was waiting.
864
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:34,200
That totally made me feel…
865
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,720
um…
866
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,200
as if I wasn't even
867
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:41,640
a person.
868
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:48,360
[congregation singing]
869
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,120
[Sam Brown] I can remember
looking at the back of people's heads,
870
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,000
like a little sea of people's heads,
and thinking…
871
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,360
[sniffles] …"Why can't you see me?"
872
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,400
As if everybody's heads
were turned against me.
873
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:09,080
And, I think, one way, it confirmed to me
that I wasn't to be seen.
874
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,240
I wasn't anything.
875
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,400
And that no…
876
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:19,920
That it was just supposed to be.
877
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,280
I felt nothing but pain,
and nobody saw that.
878
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,240
When I was hiding in my classroom,
under the cupboards--
879
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,560
I had to go to special school
because I couldn't…
880
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,440
I couldn't go in a room.
I was so… [sniffles]
881
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,320
I was so scared of everything
that I would go to school
882
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,240
and get under
the sink cupboards in a classroom
883
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,200
and hide in the sink cupboard,
or hide underneath my table
884
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,240
and just sit and just…
885
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,360
I'd just argue to myself.
"You're disgusting. You're horrible."
886
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,600
As a grown-up and as a 54-year-old woman,
887
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:04,640
I still believe
that I played a part in this, that I--
888
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:07,040
Because I should have shouted.
889
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,800
That I should have been able
to have gone to my mum
890
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,800
or my family or my teachers,
891
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,800
or I should have stopped right there
in that church, and I--
892
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,400
And why did I not shout,
893
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,800
"Right, leave me alone!"
894
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,320
Why did I not shout that,
with an open door,
895
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,320
with the people all still there--
Why did they-- Why did I…
896
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,560
That's my fault. Why did I not stop it?
897
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,720
I did think for a second,
"Did anything happen to anybody else?"
898
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,520
And I thought, "No,
people would've been stronger than me
899
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,640
to tell the police about Jimmy Savile."
900
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:21,880
[giggling]
901
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,400
[Alison Bellamy] He always used to say,
"It might all end tomorrow."
902
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,280
"So, why would it end tomorrow?"
I said, "Why will it end tomorrow?"
903
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,600
He said, "All of it.
It might all end tomorrow."
904
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,400
There was something amok. He was upset.
905
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,880
The police had been in touch with him
from down south.
906
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,480
He went to be questioned,
907
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,240
I think it was
down at Stoke Mandeville Hospital,
908
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,800
and he was most unhappy about this.
909
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,040
[tape recorder clicks]
910
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,640
[woman]
Okay, this interview
is being tape-recorded.
911
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:12,880
I'm Detective Constable [bleep]
from Surrey Police.
912
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,480
-What's your full name?
-James Wilson Savile.
913
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,640
[detective]
You said earlier
it was okay to call you Jimmy.
914
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:22,080
[Savile]
That's my name. Yes.
915
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,920
[detective]
Before I make you aware
of what's been alleged,
916
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,360
I'll just read out the caution.
"You do not have to say anything,
917
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,440
but it may harm your defense
if you do not mention when questioned
918
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,080
something which you later
rely upon in court,
919
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,600
and anything you do say
may be given in evidence."
920
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,440
[Savile]
I'll say everything.
I've had so much of this in 50 years.
921
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,480
It's always either someone looking for
a few quid or a story for the paper.
922
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,520
[detective]
What we'll do, Jimmy…
I'm not being rude stopping you there.
923
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,160
I will give you a chance to say,
924
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:52,120
but it's just important
that I get this introduction bit done.
925
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,640
[Savile]
You didn't interrupt me.
926
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,760
He said he was having
to get in touch with his lawyer,
927
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,720
and I asked him what it was about,
but he didn't go into detail about the--
928
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:03,800
the claims.
929
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,880
And he said it was a historic claim
from years ago about something.
930
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,960
[detective]
Did you specifically
go to Duncroft,
931
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,720
knowing it was an all-girls place,
to receive sexual gratification?
932
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,160
[Savile]
That is a complete
flight of fantasy.
933
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:21,560
[detective coughs]
934
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,280
[detective]
She said
that when you visited Duncroft,
935
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,840
she showed you across
to a place called Norman Lodge.
936
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:29,200
[Savile]
I can't remember that.
937
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,960
[detective]
Did you ask her
to give you what she calls a "blow job"?
938
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,200
[Savile]
Out of the question!
939
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,480
[detective]
So did you ask for a massage
from the girls when you visited Duncroft?
940
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,080
[Savile]
Not at all. Never.
941
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,280
[detective]
Did you ask them
to comb your hair at all?
942
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:51,200
[Savile]
No.
943
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,800
[detective]
Why would these girls
say this about you?
944
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,840
[Savile]
We always get
something like this at Christmas
945
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,160
'cause we all want
a few quid at Christmas, right?
946
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,000
Normally, you can just
brush them away like midges.
947
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:07,640
They will try blackmail.
948
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,440
"If you don't send us money,
949
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,040
I will say that you've done this
and you've done that."
950
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,920
So that's why I have, up in Leeds,
951
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,160
a collection of senior police persons.
952
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,840
I give them all my "weirdo" letters,
and they take 'em back to the station.
953
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,240
[detective]
You stated
at the very beginning of this interview
954
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,400
your policy on this sort of thing.
955
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,920
[Savile]
Policy. Yes.
956
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,280
I have now alerted my legal team
957
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,280
that we may be doing business.
958
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,200
See, I'm known in the trade as litigious.
959
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,800
Pull people into court
straight away, no messing.
960
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,240
"Oh dear, I've been wronged,
Your Worship. Wronged…"
961
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,000
[groans]
"Dreadful!"
962
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,000
Two hundred grand.
963
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,520
Five times I've done that.
964
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:06,280
I'd rather not.
965
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,440
If this disappears, it disappears.
966
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:12,800
If it doesn't disappear,
967
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,000
then you, young lady,
968
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,960
will finish up at the Old Bailey
as well as everyone else.
969
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,200
[detective]
If I just
end the interview there.
970
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,280
It's 11:40, and I shall stop the tape.
971
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:29,280
[Savile]
Right.
972
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,880
[Alison Bellamy] I asked, "What's happened
with that police inquiry thing?"
973
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:59,400
He'd say, "They've got no evidence.
It's nothing. There's nothing happening."
974
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:03,000
He'd brush it aside as if famous people
had this to deal with all the time,
975
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:06,200
and it was just part of his fame
and not to worry about it.
976
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,560
[Savile]
You see,
I never, ever thought that I was clever.
977
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,480
Tricky, yes. I'm a very tricky fella.
978
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,840
But tricky is much better
than being clever.
979
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,840
If you are clever,
you can slip up 'cause you're clever.
980
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,520
But if you're tricky, you don't slip up.
You never slip up if you're tricky.
981
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,720
[Meirion Jones] 2009/10.
982
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,440
I started seeing stuff
popping up on Friends Reunited,
983
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,760
an early social media network.
984
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,600
[voiceover]
Ever wondered
what your old friends are up to?
985
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,160
Friends Reunited has 15 million members.
986
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,600
There were hints there
that something had gone on at Duncroft,
987
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:22,800
from girls who had been there at the time,
who obviously were now mature women.
988
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,600
Nothing you could put your finger on,
989
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,920
but there was something
about their conversations.
990
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,240
Hints that there had been
a police investigation.
991
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,080
Printouts from Friends Reunited.
992
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,320
And this is one of the women saying
that she was contacted by the police,
993
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,360
"But don't want to do it on my own.
I really think we ought to do something."
994
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,440
"The more girls that say something, the
better chance we have of exposing him."
995
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,160
"I would love to see him
get his just deserves."
996
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,040
[man] Sir Jimmy Savile.
997
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:57,120
[applause, cheering]
998
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:08,680
[Meirion Jones] At the beginning of 2011,
I come across Karin Ward's account.
999
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,560
That was the real breakthrough
1000
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:16,280
because that was a lucid, proper story
telling everything that happened.
1001
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,880
I found it
because I was googling "Duncroft."
1002
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,320
This very convincing account.
1003
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,440
It included a character called JS.
1004
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,040
Had taken her out in the car…
1005
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,760
"One had to put up
with being mauled and groped."
1006
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,200
"In fact, he often tried to press me
to go further than simply fondling him
1007
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,440
and allowing him
to grope inside my knickers
1008
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,200
and at my partly formed breasts."
1009
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,000
"He promised me all manner of good things
if I would give him oral sex."
1010
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,240
So I've now got a story,
written very convincingly,
1011
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,160
99% of which I know is true.
1012
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:59,200
[woman]
A year after setting up a research
fellowship with a ÂŁ50,000 donation,
1013
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,000
Sir Jimmy Savile has spent the day
at Saint Jimmy's Hospital.
1014
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:07,400
We've got this
unbelievable technological thing here,
1015
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,080
which is going to make
so many people's lives different…
1016
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,400
I've been on radio and television now
1017
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:15,800
for 100 years.
1018
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,400
I'm a rare breed,
insofar as I'm a single fella.
1019
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,920
My game was not to have one wife,
to have a thousand,
1020
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,080
like King Solomon.
1021
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,360
[man]
Nothing wrong with it.
You haven't broken any laws?
1022
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,320
[Savile]
You get people chasing,
looking for you.
1023
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,320
In fact, my case comes up on Thursday.
1024
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:39,960
I've had so many adventures.
1025
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,800
In fact, my case comes up next Thursday.
1026
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,400
My case has not come up yet.
It comes up next Thursday.
1027
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:47,920
My case comes up next Thursday.
1028
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,240
-Is that all it is?
-My case comes up Thursday.
1029
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,040
-My case comes up next Thursday.
-Are you ever tempted?
1030
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,760
I am often tempted.
In fact, my case comes up next Thursday.
1031
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,520
[she laughs]
1032
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,600
[Savile]
Sooner or later,
you get your comeuppance.
1033
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,440
[man]
You talk about that as if
there's reasons for you going downstairs.
1034
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,360
Do you have a conscience about that?
Is there stuff you've done
1035
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,960
that you think
will deny you access to the big man?
1036
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:19,080
[Savile]
No. Never did any harm
to anybody.
1037
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:21,920
[man]
And what about your legacy?
1038
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,120
[Savile]
I ain't going.
It's too good here.
1039
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,440
[man]
Sir Jimmy Savile,
thank you for your time.
1040
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:28,800
[Savile]
Pleasure.
1041
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,080
[chatter over police radio]
1042
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,280
[Mark Lawson]
Judgment is crucial to Catholicism.
1043
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,400
It is said that when his corpse was found,
1044
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,800
the fingers were crossed.
1045
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:59,400
That is someone
who really, really believed in it all.
1046
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,200
[voiceover]
This is Sky News.
1047
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,200
We start this hour with breaking news
1048
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,480
that the DJ and broadcaster
Jimmy Savile has died.
1049
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,880
[woman] We understand he died
at his flat in Leeds.
1050
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:18,720
This is very sad news, coming as it does
just two days before he was due to be 85.
1051
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,240
Twitter is already
flooded with tributes to him.
1052
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,840
He was, of course,
a very popular broadcaster.
1053
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,960
[man]
What was he really famous for?
I grew up watching him…
1054
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:29,440
[Meirion Jones] I think I must've heard it
on Radio 4 news.
1055
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,760
I was utterly shocked.
1056
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,200
[man]
Showman to the end,
Sir Jimmy has not forgotten his public.
1057
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,480
His coffin will be put on view
for all to see in Leeds.
1058
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,520
In his will,
the other instructions that he'd left
1059
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,040
was he wanted to be buried at 45 degrees,
1060
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:56,000
and on his headstone, he wanted the words,
"It was good while it lasted."
1061
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,040
[cameras clicking]
1062
01:05:58,120 --> 01:05:59,080
[car horn beeping]
1063
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,240
[Robert Morphet] I'd managed to get hold
of the last cigar that he'd smoked.
1064
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,640
We set that up in an ashtray,
with a picture of him
1065
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,480
and a crucifix, which seemed appropriate
since he was a practicing Catholic.
1066
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,400
[woman]
By lunchtime,
around 2,000 people had filed in.
1067
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:31,800
It was really classy in there, and,
yeah, there was a very special spirit.
1068
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:36,680
Because it links back to our youth,
it is great to be part of something.
1069
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:38,640
What was it about Jimmy Savile?
1070
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:39,720
Everything.
1071
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,240
He had a way about him,
didn't he, our Jimmy?
1072
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,160
Class. Class. Sheer class.
1073
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,400
[Robert Morphet]
They felt as if they knew him.
1074
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,360
It's "Jimmy," "Jimmy," "our Jimmy."
1075
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,440
And everybody had a story to tell,
and they were all positive stories.
1076
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:02,960
There were no negative stories.
1077
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,960
[Meirion Jones] All these tributes
kept coming out to him.
1078
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,440
[man]
For 60 years,
Jimmy Savile has been part of our lives.
1079
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,240
A Great British eccentric.
1080
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:16,520
He was crazy.
1081
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:17,560
[wobbles voice]
1082
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,600
[man]
This is the story of Jimmy's
remarkable life, as it 'appened.
1083
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,440
[Meirion Jones] There was just endless,
"What a great man he was."
1084
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,160
Prince Charles said
he was saddened by the news.
1085
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,920
[Meirion Jones] That then triggered
a whole load of stuff on Friends Reunited.
1086
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:37,920
"Rest in peace. No, rot in hell."
"Yes, rot in hell."
1087
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,920
"This man makes my skin crawl."
1088
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,160
"Anybody else who did what he did
would've been locked up years ago."
1089
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,840
"Hope you rot in hell,
you child molester."
1090
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:49,840
"Only your celebrity status saved you."
"Rest in hell, you evil, old pervert."
1091
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,640
"Some things you never recover from."
1092
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,320
"He asked if she was a virgin,
and she said yes."
1093
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,600
"He put his hand down her knickers
and said, 'I'll be able to tell.'"
1094
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,000
"Never got over what he did."
1095
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,360
"He loved vulnerable ones
'cause he knew he could manipulate us."
1096
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,960
Lots of messages here in amongst the team,
1097
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,800
tracking down different people,
exchanging possible addresses.
1098
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,480
And, crucially, persuading them to talk.
1099
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:16,160
Many of them wouldn't talk on the phone.
They would only talk by text.
1100
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,279
Some of them would talk on the phone.
1101
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:19,399
Um…
1102
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,279
It's very, very difficult
getting people like that to trust you
1103
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:26,160
and believe you
and think that you will do something.
1104
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,680
We had a meeting with my editor,
who said, "Yes, go with this."
1105
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,560
First thing I did
was track down Karin Ward.
1106
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,240
We agreed to do a face-to-face interview.
1107
01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:46,399
[Karin Ward] He wanted me to fondle him,
1108
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,200
and he promised me
that if I gave him oral sex
1109
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:52,000
that he would arrange
for me and my friends
1110
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,960
to go to Television Centre
and be on his television show.
1111
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:57,200
I did it.
1112
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,040
I was 14.
1113
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,080
[Meirion Jones] What we were being told
by Karin and by some of the others
1114
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,399
was that they'd been taken
on trips to the BBC.
1115
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,439
-Have you heard about my reputation?
-No, tell me.
1116
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,479
Whisper-- I'll tell you afterwards.
1117
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,040
Right. No. Don't tell us.
1118
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,520
[Meirion Jones] That there had been
groping, at the very least,
1119
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,640
going on in the dressing rooms
with Gary Glitter, Jimmy Savile.
1120
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,760
I'm having a look at the audience
to see if there's any I fancy.
1121
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,479
-We got some on beanbags lined up for you.
-Lovely. You do?
1122
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,560
-[Savile] Uh, yeah.
-[laughter]
1123
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,800
[Meirion Jones] Karin tells us
the program was called
Clunk-Click.
1124
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,000
Now, that didn't mean
anything to us at all.
1125
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:38,840
[Savile wobbles voice]
1126
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,200
[man] Ten, nine, eight, seven…
1127
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:45,720
[Meirion Jones] The problem
with the BBC archive from the '70s,
1128
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,920
very little of it survived.
1129
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,760
[theme music playing]
1130
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:52,720
[applause]
1131
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,720
[Meirion Jones] Our researcher managed
to get hold of the tapes
1132
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:57,200
marked
Clunk-Click.
1133
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,360
So this program really did exist.
1134
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,280
And she went through
many tapes and found nothing.
1135
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:08,840
And then, finally, she found
some sort of taster "best of" tape.
1136
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,200
[clears throat] On with the show.
These are some of the highlights.
1137
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,840
Some of the great fun times we had.
[chuckles]
1138
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:17,720
[Meirion Jones] And there, sure enough,
1139
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:19,920
was Karin.
1140
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,440
We knew we'd made another breakthrough.
1141
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,560
This would all help substantiate
1142
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,600
the rest of what Karin
was saying about Jimmy Savile.
1143
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:37,680
And then, there are more people
coming forward to us
1144
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,160
with more evidence.
1145
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,240
You start getting a picture
that things were more widespread.
1146
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,520
That maybe everywhere he'd been,
there'd been abuse.
1147
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:00,640
[Sam Brown] When I think back,
I remember watching a great big funeral,
1148
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,800
and I felt
really like I'd let myself down.
1149
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:17,320
I thought, "He's going to his grave
with me not saying my truth."
1150
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:23,440
"I've not been strong enough."
Really disappointed in myself.
1151
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:25,880
[man shouts] Jimmy!
1152
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:27,640
[applause]
1153
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,040
[cheering]
1154
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:33,680
[Roger Ordish] We went to the funeral.
1155
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:39,360
A foreign visitor would have thought
it was a member of the royal family or a…
1156
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:41,480
a prime minister's funeral or something.
1157
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,960
[producer] Why do you think
those people had come?
1158
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,120
I just thought it was
1159
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,960
a hugely significant passing
of a great man.
1160
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:51,880
[bell rings]
1161
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,880
[Alison Bellamy] For Jimmy, who in baptism
was given the pledge of eternal life,
1162
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,680
that he may now
be admitted to the company of saints.
1163
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,320
Lord, in your mercy.
1164
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:08,760
[congregation] Hear our prayer.
1165
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,760
[organ playing]
1166
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:21,320
[priest] We pray this afternoon
1167
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,360
that the great producer on high
1168
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:26,400
will so fix it
1169
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,520
that Jimmy will be given
the ultimate reward,
1170
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,000
a place in Heaven.
1171
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,000
Do remember also
1172
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,240
to pray for the dead,
1173
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,360
that they may be released from their sins.
1174
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,000
Jimmy, himself, on the topic of sin,
1175
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:53,120
in a one-line postscript
to his autobiography, added,
1176
01:12:54,440 --> 01:12:59,040
"I hope he really does
take it easy on sinners."
1177
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,280
[Meirion Jones]
This email is on 29th November.
1178
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,240
That's the day that
the Christmas schedules are published,
1179
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,720
which are wall-to-wall
with Jimmy Savile tributes.
1180
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:21,600
My editor emailed his boss, saying,
"We've made progress on the Savile story
1181
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:25,800
and now propose
to transmit on Wednesday, 7th December."
1182
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,360
"Are you around
to talk through in more detail?"
1183
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,480
So we now have a date
that we're gonna broadcast the program.
1184
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:36,320
The next day,
1185
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,160
there was a crucial conversation
between my editor and his boss.
1186
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:47,800
Suddenly, we're told
that there's a problem with our story.
1187
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,680
There is an email out of the blue,
1188
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,760
to me, from my editor, saying,
1189
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,760
"Our sources so far are just the women."
1190
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,840
Over the following days,
we're told to stop working on the story.
1191
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,680
We're told the edit must stop.
1192
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:14,440
We don't understand,
1193
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:18,080
given all the allegations
that he was a pedophile
1194
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,880
while he was working for the BBC,
on BBC premises.
1195
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:23,480
None of this is a story.
1196
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,240
And we commit his body to the ground.
1197
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:29,320
Earth to earth.
1198
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,280
Ashes to ashes.
1199
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,360
Dust to dust.
1200
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,560
[Meirion Jones]
We can't run our investigation.
1201
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,440
The BBC broadcasts
wall-to-wall Jimmy Savile tributes.
1202
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:45,760
We can't believe it.
1203
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:48,760
It made me sick to the stomach.
1204
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:11,200
A television documentary
will this week claim
1205
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:16,120
that the late broadcaster Sir Jimmy Savile
sexually abused schoolgirls in the 1970s.
1206
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,600
[Meirion Jones] We'd rather
the story got out there.
1207
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:31,440
Their film was basically our material.
1208
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:38,560
Um, not the footage but the story
about what had happened at Duncroft.
1209
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:40,520
The claims first appeared this weekend,
1210
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,440
based on a yet-to-be-seen
television documentary.
1211
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:44,520
Since the report…
1212
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:49,280
I just felt sick 'cause it seemed to be
more newsworthy than previous…
1213
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,680
The previous claims had been brushed aside
by the police and been dropped.
1214
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,280
[man 1]
The documentary will air claims
that Savile molested young girls,
1215
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,760
but the BBC say they've found nothing
to substantiate this.
1216
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,120
[man 2]
The CPS
said there wasn't enough evidence.
1217
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:04,960
No one has pressed charges.
1218
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,680
What's the point of broadcasting this?
1219
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,760
So-called kangaroo court needs to stop.
1220
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,000
What good is gonna come out of this?
1221
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,240
Are they getting money out of this?
1222
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,200
Why have they waited
until after he's died?
1223
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,360
'Cause they were frightened.
They were scared.
1224
01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:23,880
-Groupies that threw themselves--
-Are you saying these girls were groupies?
1225
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,720
I'm saying that sort of thing
did happen in the pop business.
1226
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:30,040
[Roger Ordish] The television program.
1227
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:32,560
My friend rang me
1228
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,680
and said, "Watch out,
there's a whole lot--"
1229
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:39,280
"A whole hornets' nest
is about to be released."
1230
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:43,840
[man]
I've been told
he was using his celebrity status
1231
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,600
to gain access to teenage girls
at a school in Surrey.
1232
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,920
[woman 1]
…a good fumble around
in my knickers,
1233
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,960
but I thought it was expected of me.
1234
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,200
I was expected to masturbate him.
1235
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:58,840
He wanted me
to put my finger into his anus.
1236
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:05,160
[man]
My investigation would lead me to
other people with similar stories to tell.
1237
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,360
[woman 2]
There was an alcove
in the dressing room.
1238
01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:11,080
He pushed me back against the wall,
1239
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,480
and then it was a hand up the skirt.
1240
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:16,840
He did it on various occasions
in various places.
1241
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,000
One of these fumbles then turned into
1242
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,960
him pinning me down with his body weight.
1243
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:26,680
He-- He actually raped me.
1244
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,760
I was very young, and he was in his 40s.
1245
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,160
[woman 3]
Being a teenager,
you do blame yourself,
1246
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:36,320
and I didn't understand it.
1247
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,160
[presenter]
Some messages
from listeners who've texted.
1248
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,800
"Why on earth would you
drag up all this now? The man is dead."
1249
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,240
"How dare you
air these malicious allegations!"
1250
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,080
The Metropolitan Police say
1251
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,640
that it will now take the lead
in investigating sex abuse allegations
1252
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,760
against the late Sir Jimmy Savile,
as more women come forward
1253
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,400
claiming to have been
assaulted by the TV presenter.
1254
01:17:57,480 --> 01:17:59,880
[woman 4]
His hand was in my knickers.
1255
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:01,560
I froze.
1256
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:02,840
Totally froze.
1257
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,840
[woman 5]
I definitely had the sense
that it was only me.
1258
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,840
[man 1]
Scotland Yard
has formally recorded eight allegations
1259
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,680
against Jimmy Savile.
Two of rape and six of indecent assault.
1260
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:16,120
But calls to police suggest
there may have been as many as 30 victims.
1261
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:18,160
Tonight at ten, police are now pursuing
1262
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:21,280
more than a hundred
lines of inquiry about Jimmy Savile.
1263
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,480
[man 2]
I just think
it's a waste of media time, police time…
1264
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,480
Meanwhile, Cleveland Police have confirmed
1265
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,720
they've received
the first complaint from a man
1266
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,600
who says he was sexually assaulted
by the star when he was nine years old.
1267
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:36,200
[man 3]
The point is this,
we're only hearing one side of the story.
1268
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,960
Yet more allegations.
What more can you tell us?
1269
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,120
This will be a very worrying development
1270
01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:44,560
because Jimmy Savile
for years was a volunteer porter
1271
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:46,120
at hospitals in Leeds.
1272
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,560
[presenter]
One former patient
at the Leeds General Infirmary
1273
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:53,720
has been describing how she witnessed
Savile abusing another patient.
1274
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,320
[woman]
There was a young girl.
She had brain damage.
1275
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:01,160
She was sat there,
not on this planet, bless her.
1276
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,520
Jimmy Savile started kissing her neck,
1277
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:07,760
running his hands up and down her arms,
1278
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:11,280
and then he started to molest her.
1279
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:15,280
Thirteen different police forces are
now dealing with a catalog of complaints.
1280
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,720
More allegations
have emerged this morning.
1281
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:21,480
We've now had 161 calls to our helpline.
1282
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,320
The police are now pursuing
340 separate lines of inquiry.
1283
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:27,680
The government is concerned.
The prime minister…
1284
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:29,840
The nation is appalled. We're all appalled
1285
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,480
by the allegations
of what Jimmy Savile did,
1286
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:35,040
and they seem to get worse by the day.
1287
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,640
[man 4]
Police say there are now
400 lines of inquiry
1288
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,760
into sexual abuse by Jimmy Savile.
1289
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:45,960
[Paxman] It's been a bad day for the BBC.
1290
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,840
This program investigated the claims
almost a year ago
1291
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,000
and never broadcast what it found out.
1292
01:19:56,480 --> 01:19:58,840
[Meirion Jones] I'm being asked
not to do interviews, but, yes,
1293
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,160
obviously, I'm happy
that our story is out there.
1294
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:09,560
There is a range of offending,
from inappropriate touching
1295
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,280
through to indecent assault and to rape.
1296
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,680
[Roger Ordish] The hundreds of pages
of the report.
1297
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,600
The picture that emerged
didn't bear thinking about.
1298
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:21,680
Hospital wards,
1299
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:25,800
which had people who were
in a state of paralysis in the beds.
1300
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,920
[Sam Brown] "Little boy.
Under ten. Fractured arm."
1301
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,560
"They got a nice porter
to take him down for his X-ray."
1302
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,720
"'Uncle Jimmy'll look after you.'"
1303
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,800
"Touched his genitals.
Terrified. Crying out."
1304
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:46,680
The earliest indecent
reporting incident was 1955.
1305
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,160
"Suddenly, she felt a hand."
1306
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:53,000
"Next thing, he was unzipping
the back of her hot pants
1307
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,960
and putting his hands down
into the knickers, into her bottom."
1308
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,280
He wouldn't move his hand.
I tried to move it.
1309
01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:00,720
[woman yelps]
1310
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:05,640
[sinister music playing]
1311
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:07,800
[Sam Brown] All the people
that muddled through life
1312
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:09,800
thinking there's something
wrong with them…
1313
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,200
Why didn't they report to anyone?
1314
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:14,920
Because they felt nobody would hear them.
1315
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:23,800
[woman]
Others, too,
are reevaluating their relationship.
1316
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:26,200
Like Sylvia Nicol,
1317
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,920
who was a trustee of the Jimmy Savile
Stoke Mandeville Hospital Trust.
1318
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,040
[Sylvia Nicol] I can't… It's just…
1319
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,800
I don't know. Your world's upside down.
1320
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:38,840
I saw him do good.
1321
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,720
All of it is beyond belief.
1322
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,640
[producer] Did you read
the report into Stoke Mandeville?
1323
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:46,560
No.
1324
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:49,520
I don't wanna know about it,
I don't think.
1325
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,560
That's the thing.
That's the truth of it, isn't it?
1326
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:55,200
People have said to me,
"How did you not know?"
1327
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:57,440
"Why didn't you know?" In hindsight, yes…
1328
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,600
I mean, I got mobbed by the press.
1329
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:03,360
On social media, "You should
have your kids taken off you, you should."
1330
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,680
You know, we did have a friendship.
A valid friendship that, um…
1331
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:09,640
that was real at the time.
1332
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,440
I can't reconcile
the Jimmy I knew with the abuse.
1333
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:16,760
It's just really hard to…
to think about, really.
1334
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,520
I try not to think about it.
1335
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:21,040
[clears throat]
1336
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:26,760
Today, we hear for the first time
from the producer of
Jim'll Fix It,
1337
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,680
who worked closely
with Jimmy Savile for 21 years.
1338
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,640
Do you think
that you might have blocked your ears?
1339
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:34,840
I don't think so. There wasn't…
1340
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:36,600
I think it was the feeling that
1341
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:38,720
he's dead,
1342
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:40,960
you can't hang skeletons, but
1343
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:44,560
you can find somebody to blame.
1344
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,840
Do you say that it was possible
that this could've happened?
1345
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,680
It's possible, yes.
1346
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:54,240
Gosh. And you were there that whole time,
1347
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:58,920
but you… you didn't see anything,
you didn't hear anything? It seems…
1348
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:00,480
No, I didn't see any of that.
1349
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,120
[music drowns out speech]
1350
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,400
I didn't shout,
"You're a pedo!" 'cause I didn't know.
1351
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:10,360
If you say, "I knew about it,"
you mean you'd heard the rumors.
1352
01:23:10,440 --> 01:23:12,880
There is a hysterical
"Why didn't the BBC reveal it?!"
1353
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:14,760
Well, the press didn't either.
1354
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:18,680
As a profession,
as journalists, we failed the country.
1355
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,680
We should have got this guy.
1356
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:25,480
There
was a story there
that we didn't get.
1357
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,000
But it also made me realize
the nation failed itself.
1358
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:32,440
The nation created Jimmy Savile.
1359
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:33,760
From national treasure
1360
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:37,080
to one of the most reviled men
in the public consciousness.
1361
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:40,280
[man]
Savile's links with Scarborough
are all but gone.
1362
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,400
The defaced plaque
on his former home, removed.
1363
01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:45,560
His street sign, also taken down.
1364
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,600
The University of Bedfordshire
has withdrawn the honorary degree
1365
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:49,920
it awarded to Jimmy Savile.
1366
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,800
[woman]
Leeds City Council
says it will remove an inscription
1367
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,640
on the wall of its Civic Hall
honoring Jimmy Savile.
1368
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:59,920
It's the latest dedication to the former
Radio 1 DJ to be removed after a plaque…
1369
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,480
There was a feeling that
there hasn't been a day of reckoning.
1370
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:06,720
There hasn't been a day of judgment.
1371
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,600
And I think
that's where the anger comes from.
1372
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:13,920
Calls are growing
for Jimmy Savile to be exhumed
1373
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:15,920
from his resting place in Scarborough.
1374
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:20,640
[man] Damn good idea.
1375
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:24,440
Nobody wants it here now,
after all these revelations have come out.
1376
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:28,000
Get rid of him. Get rid of the man.
He doesn't exist anymore.
1377
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:32,840
[Robert Morphet] I expressed my concern
about the lettering
1378
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:34,720
on the front of the headstone.
1379
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:37,520
"It was good while it lasted"
1380
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:39,600
is offensive,
1381
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:42,360
and it will be offensive for all time.
1382
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,760
He betrayed the trust of all of us,
1383
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:50,440
and I felt it was only a matter of time
before that headstone was defaced.
1384
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:55,840
The headstone on Savile's grave
in Scarborough will be removed tomorrow.
1385
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,840
I said, "I don't think we can leave this.
I'll try and do it tonight."
1386
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:03,080
So we hid.
1387
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,960
We got the call from the police
about eleven o'clock
1388
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,400
to say that all the TV vans had gone,
1389
01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:12,720
and it took us from half past eleven
until one o'clock in the morning
1390
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,320
to remove that stone and sheet it all up.
1391
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:18,320
There were no photographs taken of it.
1392
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:20,080
And, uh…
1393
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,040
we took it back
to our monumental masonry yard in Leeds.
1394
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,480
My colleagues then set to,
1395
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:28,600
in the middle of the night,
1396
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,240
grinding the inscription off,
so it could never be read.
1397
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:35,600
It was expected to happen in the morning,
but it happened overnight. Do we know why?
1398
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,160
Yes, well, it's because of
this immense change in public opinion.
1399
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:42,960
Police, yesterday, describing him
as a "predatory sex offender."
1400
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:46,240
I'm joined by the funeral director,
Robert Morphet. Tell us…
1401
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:48,640
[organ music drowns out speech]
1402
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:54,240
[organ music continues]
1403
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,960
I knew when this broke with Savile,
and it was all over the telly everywhere,
1404
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:04,640
I thought, "Oh, I'm in trouble."
1405
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,880
You were abused by Jimmy Savile
for several years.
1406
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:08,800
Yeah.
1407
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:10,640
-Didn't talk about it for a long time.
-No.
1408
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:13,920
-Being able to lock things away…
-Mm.
1409
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:15,960
…was the way I coped.
1410
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,280
[Sam Brown] When I spoke to my husband,
I said, "You don't understand,"
1411
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,120
and he said,
"But, Sam, what can I understand…"
1412
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:25,040
[sniffles]
1413
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,160
"…when you've not told me anything?"
1414
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:33,040
And I thought, "For once,
I have to tell because it's not fair."
1415
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,640
-How have your family been?
-Oh, fantastic.
1416
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,000
I said to him,
"How did you put up with me?"
1417
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:42,520
He said, "I always knew
1418
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:44,280
you inside."
1419
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:48,560
And that was really lovely.
1420
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,640
I said, "I'm going to the police station."
1421
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,440
I remember saying to the officer,
"I'm really sorry."
1422
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,840
You know, "I'm really sorry
I've had to say this."
1423
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,600
And he was like, "No, it's okay."
1424
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:11,160
I was really aware
that I needed to start talking
1425
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:12,640
and stay talking.
1426
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:16,840
And that's what I did,
and actually I can kind of
1427
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:20,160
look at my young me…
1428
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:23,520
with less pain now.
1429
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,480
I actually think I've become closer to me.
1430
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,000
Me, child me.
1431
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,440
And that, I think,
as an adult, has been nice
1432
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:35,880
to be able to take the--
1433
01:27:36,480 --> 01:27:40,480
some, three-quarters,
of the blame away from me.
1434
01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:45,240
I always had a distaste for myself.
1435
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,000
I felt quite ugly.
I felt all of these things, you know.
1436
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:53,720
And actually, I think I look all right
when I've brushed me hair properly.
1437
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:54,880
All of them things.
1438
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:01,000
This forced my hand,
1439
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:03,600
and I am thankful for that.
1440
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:07,680
I am proud of talking now.
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