Original subtitles

Michal would like to not work.

Mm-hm.

And for you to be the breadwinner.

Mm-hm.

How do you feel about that?

I would love that.

You would love that.

Yeah, I have no problem with that.

But would you love that?

Would I love that?

Yeah, sure.

I'm fine with everything.

I'm not hearing you there.

That could not be true, that you're fine with everything.

Why not?

That's just not how humans work.

I'm pretty much fine with anything.

Let's try something else.

Okay, fine.

What if you said "This is what I want?"

I don't particularly want anything.

Sorry, I'm still not managing to hear you.

I don't care.

You don't care about... I don't know.

Most things.

Theme music

Okay, which game are we going to... I get the puzzle.

Why do you get the puzzle?

Because you always snag the puzzle.

Because I'm better at it.

Um, you haven't solved it once and neither have I...

Yeah, because you snatch it every time I'm about to solve it.

That's so not true.

Well, how would you know?

You keep snagging it.

- You know what's funny? - Me.

Because I have such a good memory,

if I actually look at it, I'll know how to solve it.

- So I can't look at it. - No way.

- Yeah. - I say look at it and then -flip it. -Okay.

All right, I know how to solve it.

- All right, let's see. - Okay.

When we were first married, the first few years of our life,

I was so excited every time he would come home.

Sometimes, I would wait for him by the window like a puppy.

Like, waiting for him to get home.

And I just feel like over the years,

so much resentment and so much disappointment has built up that

it's very hard for me to just be jovial and happy and carefree.

What he says to me, that when he feels that I'm agitated,

it's hard for him to come toward me.

Right.

So it's almost as if I can never get what I need out of him

because when I'm upset and when I'm agitated and when I'm

frustrated and when I'm angry, it's when I need him the most,

but I'm the least able to express it,

and he's the most likely to take that step back and say,

"I don't want to go near you with a ten-foot pole because

you're clearly upset right now."

Like, I don't want to be the person to say to him,

"Will you give me a hug?"

Because I don't want a hug from him because I'm angry at him.

But if you get a hug from him, how will that get in your way?

Maybe it will make me feel in some way as though I'm rewarding

him or make him feel like everything is copacetic when it's clearly not.

So you're kind of doing a star system.

You are not getting a check on the 10th day and you do not get

to stay home from work so don't get any ideas.

The star system never worked on me as a kid.

It doesn't really work.

I feel like it also expresses itself sexually.

I was just going to ask, actually, because that's often the next arena.

Yeah.

I get very frustrated that he doesn't initiate things.

I'll say to him, "You know, you don't have to do very much.

All you have to do is just show me a little bit of

affection and that'll be enough.

Like, I'll fill in all the rest of the gaps."

But he won't do that.

He'll never take that first step.

Never.

In 11 years of marriage, it never happens.

That's not true.

It's like you are asking me to be that person that... Listen.

Part of what you're doing in a way might be a clue to what goes

on sexually and in other domains.

You are doing all the work.

You've asked the question.

You've answered already what his response is.

You're doing it all.

But then you're saying, "Where is he?"

Right?

So, let's ask.

Where are you?

- What are your thoughts? - Are you even here?

I think so.

What are your thoughts?

First of all, how are feeling?

Well, you know, it's... Setting a little uncomfortable.

I think there's, like, a baseline fear that I'm upsetting

her, or that she's angry at me.

She'll say, like, "Hey, I'm just sitting here on Netflix and you

could just, like, jump my bones."

And it's just like, no, I'm, like, not...

You have no idea what you're gonna get.

Like, I'm don't want to jump into a bear trap that, like, might be okay.

I put a real live bear trap and I wait for him to walk into it

and I'm like grr.

Right, exactly.

I would say most of the time I bring up a topic of

conversation, I feel like it's shot down for some reason.

That creates a bedrock of...

A baseline of kind of expecting to be rebuffed or criticized.

Yeah, a baseline of just, like, being careful where I tread.

Okay.

That's good information for you.

But to go back to the original business of,

like, initiation, what ends up happening is the more agitated,

anxious, and in a way rejecting you are, the more you retreat.

- Right. - Right?

Yeah.

The more you retreat, the more agitated you are.

That's it.

That's your dance.

- Right. - Right?

So... if we translated that into what you each could do to make

somewhat of a difference and see if we can get any traction

with that, what would be a way for Michal to position herself

differently with you?

I mean, really... In a way that would be less scary?

Yeah, I mean, look.

The truth is I'm never scared of Michal.

That's not true.

What I mean is that, like, when I'm scared, it's like scared to engage.

Right.

So how can Michal position herself differently so you feel

less scared to engage?

Well, the truth is, if she were to greet me with a smile,

that would be a mile in the right direction.

Like... I always greet you... I don't know what you're talking about.

- I'm constantly smiling at you. - Okay, so wait.

That's not how it feels.

It feels like when I walk home, I have to sort of take a deep

breath, walk into the room... Oh, that sucks.

First of all, I don't mean this as a rant.

But, like, I don't think there's a day I come home that you

don't tell me about something terrible that happened that day.

You gotta realize that when I walk through the door,

the first thing I'm getting is bad news,

uh, Michal's probably in a bad mood,

and maybe just leave her alone, or try to engage politely and

carefully without upsetting her.

And I'll do that and it'll start getting on, like, buttons

I shouldn't be touching.

And then you just sort of tell me to leave.

Like, that... So would it be an okay ask for you to move towards the

areas that Michal is most agitated about?

Let's say you are imagining "I'd like to have a really nice

relaxing evening later on.

Let me start off by actually asking a question about what

really makes Michal anxious.

So how are we doing with the finances?

What are your thoughts about it today?"

Well, I don't know if I can really bring those topics up.

I would love for you to talk about that stuff.

I feel like you ignore it.

I feel like you get angry when I talk about those things.

Well, then bring it back here and we will discuss that

because that's your homework.

Okay.

And for you, when Michael comes home,

to spend half an hour just having a benign,

pleasant interaction.

Yes.

Yes, and.

Improvisational here.

Yes, and can we also have a half an hour talking about

things that are more practical?

Sure, I think that's perfect.

Fine, deal.

Deal.

Forged in blood.

With the therapist's spit.

Right, right... ambient music

You okay?

- Yeah. - Okay.

How are you?

Good.

We're better, don't you think?

I mean, I feel like we're getting better.

Since last week, we've talked a lot.

I wanna hear.

Okay, so we are planning a weekend away.

It's me, him, and two of our friends.

There's a group text.

Everyone's going back and forth and there's no decision-making.

Mm-hm.

And... Well, it's just everyone is open to anything.

Yeah, which is great, everyone's open to anything.

Mm-hm.

But we know that Matthew wants a plan.

Um, you just have to have a plan.

For him, yeah, you know, we talked about it.

What do you mean "for me?"

You want everything planned the entire time we're gone.

Yeah, something needs to be decided on.

I mean... Wait, but I guess I don't understand where the tension is

coming from.

What I feel like the true tension is really all about is

the stress of me being with him on a trip with his friends.

Meaning that Gianni is feeling like he's needing to manage you?

Right.

Do you think that's true?

Mm-hm, yeah.

I think this is our first trip since... you got sober.

So it's a big deal in a certain way.

Yeah, so I want things to go...

What does my sobriety have anything to do with your stresses of this trip?

I mean, I just want you to...

Don't feel stressed.

I don't know, like it puts you in a bad place, you know?

I want everybody to enjoy themselves and have a good time.

Me having to be in the middle, you know, with my boyfriend...

- I see, your boyfriend, your friends... - Yeah. -Uh-huh.

So you're anxious.

Mm-hm.

Yeah.

Okay.

So everyone's anxious.

No, I think it truly is him being anxious and it's like projecting on me.

It's very odd... Well, Gianni is owning his anxiety.

He's saying he is anxious.

Matthew, you're saying that what Gianni keeps projecting onto you is...?

I guess that I don't bring anything to the table.

I don't, you know... What is the thing that you don't bring to the table?

I think it's because I'm not the life of the party anymore?

That he has to step around me because Matthew's sensitive and

he's sober.

It just feels like a lot of pressure on Matthew to be this,

you know, this ideal person that he wants me to be and I feel

like I don't live up to that expectation.

Gianni's very focused on your happiness and your well-being.

And I can understand that part of that feels like some kind of

pressure on you.

But what I also see is that you're not experiencing

some of it as simple care for you.

I hear two different... completely two different things going on.

You have this compassion that you want to ensure this trip

goes very smoothly.

Mm-hm.

But then you have this irritability going on that

revolves around me and planning and,

you know, wanting to do what Matthew wants to do.

So I just don't... I'm getting confused on which road we're on.

Like, are you compassionate or are you irritable?

But it's not either-or.

- Okay, so it's both. - It's both.

I don't understand how this has to be so much work.

- Honestly. - For you.

- Mediating. - Yeah.

I mean, just going away for the weekend, why it has to be so complicated?

Because there are four people.

Yeah, I don't know why I said yes to this.

Don't know why you said these things?

What?

I said I don't know why I said yes to this trip.

- But you're right, it's... - Why?

But that's normal.

- Normal people take trips... - What's normal?

I want to live with my boyfriend.

I mean, it feels like I don't have a boyfriend anymore.

Like, I'm... Okay, get back on track and say why you got irritated.

Let's get back to the point Because see?

Because I don't want this to happen.

Okay, you did just say you're opting out.

You're putting something in there that Gianni's going to respond to.

From the beginning of this conversation,

I said, "You're projecting this 'Matthew's not going to be

happy, I've gotta manage Matthew.'"

But what are you unhappy now about?

The whole thing.

I'm just not happy now.

But now you're totally showing up for what Gianni was expecting.

So... how do you want this weekend to look?

It's really easy to look at all of it and look for the thing

that will trigger your fear or your resentment or a memory of

something in the past that annoyed you.

It's very easy to do that.

But what's available to you are also really good things right

there on the table.

I see them.

So, what are you gonna do with that?

- I'm sure he's not gonna... - He's not gonna? -He's not gonna go.

Yeah, you can always bolt and exit and...

- I know. - Take the easy way.

I don't know if it's the easy way.

It is.

It's the much easier way.

But then I'll get shit for that.

You should get shit for that.

I still have to find an excuse to give tomorrow.

For what?

For you not coming.

I'm going.

Yeah, but I don't want you to come and be like that.

No, you projected this from the beginning.

- No, it's not... - No, you projected this.

"Matthew's going to not want to come..."

Gianni, Gianni.

Let him be.

Let him be.

It's so much.

Oh, it's just so hard to manage me.

It's a lot to deal with.

Jesus Christ.

It's insane.

Let's see.

Why does everything have to be so hard every time?

Say it.

This is exactly what I didn't want to happen.

- It's happening. - Which is?

This.

Because you projected it from the beginning.

I didn't project it.

- Yes, you did! - Wait, one second.

And I've been talking for weeks now about how you're not happy

in this relationship and here you are.

You have to be pushed to the point where you come out with

your true feelings.

- Which are? - Because Matthew, it's always...

"I can't deal with him anymore.

His sobriety, it's just... I always have to, you know..."

You don't seem happy.

I don't... look at you, you're not happy.

It's hard to make you happy.

Because you are constantly projecting that I am the reason

and fault for everything.

That you have to walk around on eggshells around Matthew and

"I can't drink around him at this certain time or he's gonna

judge me for this."

What do I care if you drink?

Or your friends drink?

You're just projecting, projecting, projecting.

Matthew's sober.

Is that so hard?

Is that such a bad thing?

Mellow rock music

As long as I hold a smile and I make it seem as if everything's

okay or I don't show any emotion whatsoever, everything is good.

For him.

You know, if we're having a good week,

don't wait 'til the end to tell me,

"Oh, well, I was just being quiet to keep you happy."

That's not what I said.

That's not what I'm saying.

She's not a good communicator, especially when something is bothering her.

So we should jump right in there and take an example.

Okay.

So this morning there was some stuff on the table.

Her paperwork or something.

It's been there for a couple days.

And now, it's driving me nuts.

So instead of me saying anything negative, I bunched it up and smiled.

Like, "Look what I put here for you.

It's been a couple days now."

And she threw something in my face about, like, "When I do the

laundry, I fold it and you don't put it away right away."

And that got me upset because something so simple of just

putting something away, you know,

why do you have to sit there and fight me?

Why does it have to get to a point of now we have to face off?

Okay.

- And then what happened? - So...

Then I grabbed the stuff, I put it in the room,

and I said, "Okay, I'm sorry, I won't leave my things

on the table anymore."

And then I went into the bathroom to continue to get

ready for work, and there he goes following me to say the same thing.

"But I don't understand why you got so upset."

It's over with now, Dru.

She says it like, "Oh, I apologized and he's still up my ass about it."

No.

The way she apologizes is basically,

uh, a silent "Shut the fuck up, leave me alone, get out of my face."

So I'm hearing on both of your ends you're not

really...

not wanting to actually hear each other out.

Right?

I'm... I wanna say that I wanna hear her.

I want to know.

I want to get down to the root.

Why... what makes you get that upset?

Like, what flipped the switch on you?

Okay, let's try that.

Let's try that.

Why don't you ask Tashi?

Okay, so what... flips the switch?

Because when it comes to house things, I have asked you a

million times to do a lot of things, and you don't do them.

And I just gave up asking you.

Okay.

Do I ever get upset like you do, like you did this morning...

Hold on, hold on.

Did you get an answer?

All I got was that "You do it so it's okay for me to do it."

I heard a little more than that.

What else did you hear?

That basically "I don't know why you're asking me to do this

when I ask you to do things and you don't do them."

That's why I was trying to reply... Right, that there's some resentment.

Tashi's holding some resentment about trying to get

you to do certain things in the house that you haven't done

that she wants you to do.

Yes, yeah.

So you got an answer.

What are you doing with that information?

I don't know.

I'm not sure you're actually processing it as

information, as an answer to your question.

So, do you actually have any interest in learning new

information from the other person,

or do you want to keep chewing on your resentment?

No, I'm always trying to get down to the root.

You are not trying to get down to the root.

I would love to.

I... I... But you have the option right now and you're not doing it.

And I will ask Tashi to do the same thing for you.

How do you contribute to your conversations disintegrating?

I probably shut down.

And I... probably give him a bang, too.

Once he gives me a bang, I give him another bang.

Meaning?

Meaning like if he'll say something that's insulting to

me, I'll just say something insulting back.

So a lot of retaliation?

Yes.

But then if I bring it up, I mean, what am I supposed to do,

bring it up at a separate time?

That would be very wise, yes.

If you want to stop the cycle of retaliation or this kind of

ping pong, yeah.

For sure.

But you also have to give up the wish to win and retaliate.

I guess it's me holding onto resentment,

and it's me just angry that I kind of got pushed into this

life.

All I do is cook, clean.

I go to work.

I take care of the kids.

And when it's not done... You could shake your head all you want.

I'm staying quiet.

Continue.

That's just how I feel.

I was pushed, I was...

This housewife life was not what I necessarily intended for

myself.

It just all happened so quickly.

I mean, I was a single mom.

I was living my life.

Now, I have two kids.

I practically have a husband.

And I feel like that's what he wanted all his life.

He wants his family.

He wants his wife.

He wants all these things.

And sometimes it's heavy.

Sometimes it's a lot to deal with.

It's a lot of responsibility.

And I feel like sometimes I do it all.

So let's just maybe artificially separate out the

idea that you do more than you need to be doing,

and whether you want to be doing it at all.

I don't know if I want to be doing it at all.

Mm-hm.

Tense acoustic guitar

Here in New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo has

confirmed the first case of coronavirus in New York City.

Researchers say the virus may have been spreading undetected

for the past six weeks.

The mayor reporting a major jump in cases today.

95 confirmed cases, saying there could be a thousand in just a week.

New Yorkers should be prepared for the

possibility of a shelter-in-place order.