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1
00:00:01,209 --> 00:00:03,586
[birds singing]
2
00:00:31,156 --> 00:00:34,117
Okay, so it is 8:30 in the morning.
3
00:00:35,118 --> 00:00:37,454
And, "Why am I awake?" you ask.
[clicks tongue]
4
00:00:37,537 --> 00:00:39,956
Well, it's kind of a long story.
5
00:00:40,498 --> 00:00:46,212
Um, I sort of unexpectedly
started writing the new album,
6
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,964
and, at that point, I was just like,
7
00:00:48,048 --> 00:00:52,802
"Oh, I'm just writing songs
in quarantine," and then they're--
8
00:00:52,886 --> 00:00:55,305
It just became an album really quickly
9
00:00:55,388 --> 00:00:59,726
and really, really kind of beautifully,
surprisingly.
10
00:00:59,809 --> 00:01:02,187
And, so...
11
00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,400
You can't go into studios now
because they're all closed,
12
00:01:07,484 --> 00:01:09,778
and I've never recorded anywhere else.
13
00:01:09,861 --> 00:01:12,447
Um, and I know that other people
do this all the time,
14
00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,533
so it's actually not that special,
but I'm freaking out over it.
15
00:01:16,951 --> 00:01:19,788
We've built a home studio in my house.
16
00:01:19,871 --> 00:01:25,543
And so, it's, like--
I'm gonna do vocals today in my house.
17
00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:29,422
It's-- I'm very excited about it.
18
00:01:29,964 --> 00:01:31,007
[sighs]
19
00:01:31,091 --> 00:01:35,011
Okay, so over there is where
my recording booth is,
20
00:01:35,095 --> 00:01:38,807
and then on the other side of the wall...
Laura!
21
00:01:38,890 --> 00:01:41,059
-[Sisk chuckles] Hey.
-[Swift] Yeah.
22
00:01:41,142 --> 00:01:42,227
Jack?
23
00:01:43,853 --> 00:01:45,146
Holy shit.
24
00:01:46,398 --> 00:01:49,192
It's like you're right there,
but instead, you're in New York.
25
00:01:50,985 --> 00:01:53,154
I'm freaking out. We've never done this.
26
00:01:56,199 --> 00:01:57,409
This is crazy.
27
00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:41,536
-First day we've been in the same room.
-Cheers. Yeah.
28
00:02:41,619 --> 00:02:42,954
First moment.
29
00:02:43,038 --> 00:02:44,414
That's so weird.
30
00:02:45,582 --> 00:02:47,625
I think when lockdown happened,
31
00:02:47,709 --> 00:02:51,212
I just found myself completely listless
and purposeless and...
32
00:02:52,047 --> 00:02:54,007
That-- Then that was in
the first three days of it.
33
00:02:54,090 --> 00:02:56,217
And then-- And then I remembered
34
00:02:56,301 --> 00:02:59,512
-when we met a year before.
-[man] Yeah.
35
00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:01,431
And I'd come to The National show,
36
00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:04,851
and afterward you would come up
and talk to me, and you were so nice.
37
00:03:04,934 --> 00:03:07,228
And I was like,
"How do you guys write songs?"
38
00:03:07,312 --> 00:03:11,649
You were like, "We all live in different
places, so sometimes I'll just make tracks
39
00:03:11,733 --> 00:03:14,944
and send them around
and send them to Matt."
40
00:03:15,028 --> 00:03:16,946
And I just kind of thought to myself,
41
00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:20,283
"If there was ever an opportunity
to work with someone I was such a fan of
42
00:03:20,367 --> 00:03:22,327
who could work like that,
that would be so cool."
43
00:03:23,578 --> 00:03:26,122
Then lockdown happened,
and I texted you, and I was like,
44
00:03:26,206 --> 00:03:30,043
"Hey. Would you even wanna work?
Do you-- Are you in that place right now?"
45
00:03:30,126 --> 00:03:32,504
And I was like, "I don't know
if this is a real text.
46
00:03:32,587 --> 00:03:33,880
-I'm not sure."
-[Swift laughs]
47
00:03:33,963 --> 00:03:35,507
Seemed like a bit? Like a friend--
48
00:03:35,590 --> 00:03:37,592
Well, I was like,
"Is someone pretending? No."
49
00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:38,760
I feel like it's also--
50
00:03:38,843 --> 00:03:41,554
One of the reasons why it resonates
with me so much is because
51
00:03:41,638 --> 00:03:46,643
in the dismantling of all our systems
of life that we've known in the pandemic,
52
00:03:46,726 --> 00:03:47,936
you're left with two options.
53
00:03:48,019 --> 00:03:50,105
You either cling to it
and try to make it work
54
00:03:50,188 --> 00:03:52,941
or to just say, "Well, I guess
I'm just gonna chart a new path,"
55
00:03:53,024 --> 00:03:54,859
and kinda get a frontier mentality.
56
00:03:54,943 --> 00:03:58,488
And I think it was such a thrilling use
of quarantine to say like,
57
00:03:58,571 --> 00:04:02,117
"Well, everything's a blur,
so I'm just gonna rewrite it."
58
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:03,451
Yeah.
59
00:04:03,535 --> 00:04:07,288
I-- I didn't even tell my label
until a week before we put it out
60
00:04:07,372 --> 00:04:09,457
-that it existed.
-What was that call like?
61
00:04:09,541 --> 00:04:11,209
It was amazing.
62
00:04:11,292 --> 00:04:14,045
I thought it was gonna be stressful,
63
00:04:14,129 --> 00:04:16,464
and I thought I was gonna
have to kind of stand up,
64
00:04:16,548 --> 00:04:19,884
with shaking hands being like,
"I promise I know what I'm doing.
65
00:04:19,968 --> 00:04:21,803
I know that there's not,
like, a big single,
66
00:04:21,886 --> 00:04:25,098
and I'm not doing, like, a big pop thing,
and I'm not--"
67
00:04:25,181 --> 00:04:30,020
But they-- My label was like,
"Whatever you wanna make, we're down."
68
00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:32,022
You ready to play this whole thing?
69
00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:35,442
Yeah, no. I-- I-- I think it's really
important that we play it.
70
00:04:35,525 --> 00:04:39,446
I think it will take that for me
to realize that it's a real album.
71
00:04:40,447 --> 00:04:42,866
-Seems like a big mirage.
-[Antonoff] It does.
72
00:04:42,949 --> 00:04:44,617
Never worked on an album like this.
73
00:04:44,701 --> 00:04:46,161
Me neither.
74
00:04:46,244 --> 00:04:47,412
Yeah.
75
00:04:48,121 --> 00:04:49,622
I don't know if I ever will again.
76
00:04:49,706 --> 00:04:53,877
Like, I don't know if it's how albums
are meant to be made.
77
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,378
It just worked right now.
78
00:04:55,879 --> 00:05:00,175
There's something about the complete
and total uncertainty about life
79
00:05:00,258 --> 00:05:02,594
that causes endless anxiety,
80
00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:05,597
but there's another part
that causes sort of a release
81
00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,726
-of the pressures that you used to feel.
-[Antonoff] Mm.
82
00:05:09,809 --> 00:05:13,980
Because if we're going
to have to recalibrate everything,
83
00:05:14,064 --> 00:05:16,900
we should start
with what we love the most first.
84
00:05:16,983 --> 00:05:22,280
And I think that was what we were
sort of unconsciously doing with this.
85
00:05:22,364 --> 00:05:24,657
-[Antonoff] Totally. That is it exactly.
-Yeah.
86
00:05:24,741 --> 00:05:27,452
If everything's gonna fall apart,
then make a record.
87
00:05:27,535 --> 00:05:29,996
And I was so glad that we did
because it turned out that,
88
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,124
like, everybody needed a good cry
as well as us.
89
00:05:58,817 --> 00:06:01,486
♪ I'm doing good
I'm on some new shit ♪
90
00:06:02,237 --> 00:06:05,115
♪ Been saying "yes" instead of "no" ♪
91
00:06:05,615 --> 00:06:09,411
♪ I thought I saw you at the bus stop
I didn't though ♪
92
00:06:12,455 --> 00:06:15,709
♪ I hit the ground running each night ♪
93
00:06:15,792 --> 00:06:18,378
♪ I hit the Sunday matinee ♪
94
00:06:19,379 --> 00:06:23,341
♪ You know the greatest films of all time
Were never made ♪
95
00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:28,722
♪ I guess you never know, never know ♪
96
00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:32,892
♪ And if you wanted me
You really should've showed ♪
97
00:06:32,976 --> 00:06:36,062
♪ And if you never bleed
You're never gonna grow ♪
98
00:06:36,146 --> 00:06:38,690
♪ And it's all right now ♪
99
00:06:40,191 --> 00:06:42,819
♪ We were something
Don't you think so? ♪
100
00:06:43,528 --> 00:06:46,489
♪ Roaring twenties
Tossing pennies in the pool ♪
101
00:06:46,573 --> 00:06:49,617
♪ And if my wishes came true ♪
102
00:06:50,618 --> 00:06:53,288
♪ It would've been you ♪
103
00:06:54,122 --> 00:06:56,499
♪ In my defense
I have none ♪
104
00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:00,587
♪ For never leaving well enough alone ♪
105
00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:03,256
♪ But it would've been fun ♪
106
00:07:04,132 --> 00:07:06,760
♪ If you would've been the one ♪
107
00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:23,693
♪ I have this dream
You're doing cool shit ♪
108
00:07:24,486 --> 00:07:27,197
♪ Having adventures on your own ♪
109
00:07:27,906 --> 00:07:32,202
♪ You meet some woman on the Internet
And take her home ♪
110
00:07:34,829 --> 00:07:38,124
♪ We never painted by the numbers, baby ♪
111
00:07:38,208 --> 00:07:41,461
♪ But we were making it count ♪
112
00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:45,840
♪ You know the greatest loves
Of all time are over now ♪
113
00:07:48,635 --> 00:07:51,137
♪ I guess you never know, never know ♪
114
00:07:51,763 --> 00:07:55,433
♪ And it's another day waking up alone ♪
115
00:07:55,517 --> 00:07:58,395
♪ But we were something
Don't you think so? ♪
116
00:07:58,937 --> 00:08:02,148
♪ Roaring twenties
Tossing pennies in the pool ♪
117
00:08:02,232 --> 00:08:05,485
♪ And if my wishes came true ♪
118
00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:08,738
♪ It would've been you ♪
119
00:08:09,572 --> 00:08:11,950
♪ In my defense
I have none ♪
120
00:08:12,951 --> 00:08:15,995
♪ For never leaving well enough alone ♪
121
00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:18,790
♪ But it would've been fun ♪
122
00:08:19,541 --> 00:08:22,502
♪ If you would've been the one ♪
123
00:08:22,585 --> 00:08:28,425
♪ I persist
And resist the temptation to ask you ♪
124
00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:31,052
♪ If one thing had been different ♪
125
00:08:31,678 --> 00:08:35,849
♪ Would everything be different today? ♪
126
00:08:36,683 --> 00:08:39,352
♪ We were something
Don't you think so? ♪
127
00:08:40,103 --> 00:08:42,981
♪ Rosé flowing with your chosen family ♪
128
00:08:43,064 --> 00:08:46,067
♪ And it would've been sweet ♪
129
00:08:47,068 --> 00:08:50,030
♪ If it could've been me ♪
130
00:08:50,655 --> 00:08:52,907
♪ In my defense
I have none ♪
131
00:08:53,742 --> 00:08:57,162
♪ We digging up the grave another time ♪
132
00:08:57,245 --> 00:08:59,706
♪ But it would've been fun ♪
133
00:09:00,665 --> 00:09:04,169
♪ If you would've been the one ♪
134
00:09:05,170 --> 00:09:09,841
♪ Ooh ♪
135
00:09:13,678 --> 00:09:16,890
It was funny because I-- I feel like
you captured the spirit
136
00:09:16,973 --> 00:09:18,641
of the whole record with that song.
137
00:09:18,725 --> 00:09:22,979
With "the 1" in the sense
of just the way it opens, um,
138
00:09:23,063 --> 00:09:26,024
"I'm doing good. I'm on some new shit.
Been saying 'yes' instead of 'no',"
139
00:09:26,107 --> 00:09:30,487
and I was like, "Is she talking about
writing songs with me
140
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:32,781
and everything else at the same time
or something--"
141
00:09:32,864 --> 00:09:35,742
I think it has a new--
I think it has a double meaning. The--
142
00:09:35,825 --> 00:09:37,869
Opening the album with the words,
143
00:09:37,952 --> 00:09:41,623
"I'm doing good. I'm on some new shit.
Been saying 'yes' instead of 'no'."
144
00:09:41,706 --> 00:09:45,627
Um, it-- it applies to the situation
that the song is written about where,
145
00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:50,632
you know, you're updating a former lover
on what your life is like now
146
00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,342
and trying to be positive about it.
147
00:09:52,425 --> 00:09:56,763
But it was also where I am creatively,
where it's like, "I'm just saying yes.
148
00:09:56,846 --> 00:09:59,808
I'm just putting out an album
in the worst time you could put one out.
149
00:09:59,891 --> 00:10:03,478
I'm just making stuff with someone
who I've always wanted to make stuff with
150
00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:06,398
as long as I've been
a fan of The National. And--
151
00:10:06,481 --> 00:10:08,817
I'm just gonna say 'yes' to stuff."
152
00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:10,318
-Yeah.
-And it worked out.
153
00:10:12,696 --> 00:10:16,241
♪ Vintage tee, brand new phone ♪
154
00:10:16,324 --> 00:10:19,953
♪ High heels on cobblestones ♪
155
00:10:20,036 --> 00:10:24,582
♪ When you are young
They assume you know nothing ♪
156
00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:30,880
♪ Sequin smile, black lipstick ♪
157
00:10:30,964 --> 00:10:34,676
♪ Sensual politics ♪
158
00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:39,055
♪ When you are young
They assume you know nothing ♪
159
00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:43,977
♪ But I knew you ♪
160
00:10:44,060 --> 00:10:47,772
♪ Dancing in your Levi's
Drunk under a streetlight ♪
161
00:10:47,856 --> 00:10:49,441
♪ I... ♪
162
00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:51,234
♪ I knew you ♪
163
00:10:51,317 --> 00:10:55,113
♪ Hand under my sweatshirt
Baby, kiss it better ♪
164
00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:56,614
♪ I... ♪
165
00:10:56,698 --> 00:11:01,036
♪ And when I felt like
I was an old cardigan ♪
166
00:11:01,119 --> 00:11:03,413
♪ Under someone's bed ♪
167
00:11:04,289 --> 00:11:09,002
♪ You put me on
And said I was your favorite ♪
168
00:11:11,588 --> 00:11:15,342
♪ A friend to all is a friend to none ♪
169
00:11:15,425 --> 00:11:18,928
♪ Chase two girls, lose the one ♪
170
00:11:19,012 --> 00:11:24,142
♪ When you are young
They assume you know nothing ♪
171
00:11:26,353 --> 00:11:28,188
♪ But I knew you ♪
172
00:11:28,271 --> 00:11:32,108
♪ Playing hide-and-seek and
Giving me your weekends ♪
173
00:11:32,192 --> 00:11:33,318
♪ I... ♪
174
00:11:33,401 --> 00:11:35,487
♪ I knew you ♪
175
00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:39,574
♪ Your heartbeat on the High Line
Once in 20 lifetimes ♪
176
00:11:39,657 --> 00:11:41,242
♪ I... ♪
177
00:11:41,326 --> 00:11:45,455
♪ And when I felt like
I was an old cardigan ♪
178
00:11:45,538 --> 00:11:47,707
♪ Under someone's bed ♪
179
00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:53,213
♪ You put me on
And said I was your favorite ♪
180
00:12:08,937 --> 00:12:12,399
♪ To kiss in cars and downtown bars ♪
181
00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:15,819
♪ Was all we needed ♪
182
00:12:15,902 --> 00:12:19,614
♪ You drew stars around my scars ♪
183
00:12:19,698 --> 00:12:24,202
♪ But now I'm bleeding ♪
184
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,122
♪ 'Cause I knew you ♪
185
00:12:27,205 --> 00:12:31,167
♪ Stepping on the last train
Marked me like a bloodstain ♪
186
00:12:31,251 --> 00:12:32,794
♪ I... ♪
187
00:12:32,877 --> 00:12:34,546
♪ I knew you ♪
188
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:38,550
♪ Tried to change the ending
Peter losing Wendy ♪
189
00:12:38,633 --> 00:12:39,801
♪ I... ♪
190
00:12:39,884 --> 00:12:42,095
♪ I knew you ♪
191
00:12:42,178 --> 00:12:45,932
♪ Leaving like a father
Running like water ♪
192
00:12:46,016 --> 00:12:47,225
♪ I... ♪
193
00:12:47,726 --> 00:12:51,813
♪ 'Cause when you are young
They assume you know nothing ♪
194
00:12:53,064 --> 00:12:56,818
♪ But I knew you'd linger
Like a tattoo kiss ♪
195
00:12:56,901 --> 00:13:00,321
♪ I knew you'd haunt all of my what-ifs ♪
196
00:13:00,405 --> 00:13:04,075
♪ The smell of smoke
Would hang around this long ♪
197
00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:07,579
♪ 'Cause I knew everything
When I was young ♪
198
00:13:07,662 --> 00:13:11,499
♪ I knew I'd curse you
For the longest time ♪
199
00:13:11,583 --> 00:13:15,295
♪ Chasing shadows in the grocery line ♪
200
00:13:15,378 --> 00:13:18,673
♪ I knew you'd miss me
Once the thrill expired ♪
201
00:13:18,757 --> 00:13:22,385
♪ And you'd be standing
In my front porch light ♪
202
00:13:22,469 --> 00:13:26,473
♪ And I knew you'd come back to me ♪
203
00:13:26,556 --> 00:13:29,976
♪ You'd come back to me ♪
204
00:13:30,060 --> 00:13:33,688
♪ And you'd come back to me ♪
205
00:13:33,772 --> 00:13:36,608
♪ And you'd come back ♪
206
00:13:39,319 --> 00:13:43,573
♪ And when I felt like
I was an old cardigan ♪
207
00:13:43,656 --> 00:13:46,826
♪ Under someone's bed ♪
208
00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:51,664
♪ You put me on
And said I was your favorite ♪
209
00:13:58,380 --> 00:13:59,714
[Dessner] Beautiful. [chuckles]
210
00:13:59,798 --> 00:14:01,800
-That was so fun.
-[Dessner] Yeah.
211
00:14:01,883 --> 00:14:04,177
Oh, God. This is such a blast.
212
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:07,847
This is a real, real damn blast.
You know that?
213
00:14:07,931 --> 00:14:11,726
-You know what this is? A real blast.
-[Dessner] Yeah, that was beautiful. Yeah.
214
00:14:14,354 --> 00:14:17,482
When you sent me the track
for "last great american dynasty,"
215
00:14:17,565 --> 00:14:21,277
I had been wanting to write a song
about Rebekah Harkness
216
00:14:21,361 --> 00:14:25,115
since 2013, probably.
217
00:14:25,198 --> 00:14:27,242
And I'd never figured out
the right way to do it
218
00:14:27,325 --> 00:14:29,869
because there was never a track
that felt like it could,
219
00:14:29,953 --> 00:14:36,167
kinda hold an entire story
of somebody's life and whatever
220
00:14:36,251 --> 00:14:38,378
-and move between generations.
-Yeah.
221
00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:41,464
Then when I heard that, I was like,
"Oh, my God. I think this is my opening.
222
00:14:41,548 --> 00:14:45,260
I think this is my moment. I think I can
write the Rebekah Harkness story."
223
00:14:45,343 --> 00:14:47,721
That song is such a folklore moment to me
224
00:14:47,804 --> 00:14:50,807
because it's not about you,
but it is all about you.
225
00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,767
-And it's like--
-Well, it's that country music,
226
00:14:52,851 --> 00:14:56,980
kind of, narrative device
where in country music it's like...
227
00:14:57,063 --> 00:15:00,442
♪ This guy did this
Then this woman did this ♪
228
00:15:00,525 --> 00:15:03,111
♪ Then they met
And their kid was me ♪
229
00:15:03,194 --> 00:15:06,948
Totally. Yeah, yeah. "And I was that man
that I've been talking about."
230
00:15:07,032 --> 00:15:08,992
Yeah, "I was that kid."
Like-- Which is the best.
231
00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:10,493
You listen to country songs,
232
00:15:10,577 --> 00:15:13,204
and you're just like, shivers, everywhere.
My whole body.
233
00:15:13,288 --> 00:15:15,498
Even though it's not till the very end
when you spin it around,
234
00:15:15,582 --> 00:15:17,042
even though
the story's about someone else,
235
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:18,793
I think it's the most revealing thing.
236
00:15:18,877 --> 00:15:22,005
-I think it's-- it's so deeply personal.
-Aw.
237
00:15:22,088 --> 00:15:24,215
It really hits you in the gut
when you hear that at the end.
238
00:15:24,299 --> 00:15:25,592
Thanks.
239
00:15:25,675 --> 00:15:27,302
-It's real good.
-Man.
240
00:15:32,599 --> 00:15:38,021
♪ Rebekah rode up on the afternoon train
It was sunny ♪
241
00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:42,776
♪ Her saltbox house on the coast
Took her mind off St. Louis ♪
242
00:15:45,528 --> 00:15:50,450
♪ Bill was the heir
To the Standard Oil name and money ♪
243
00:15:50,533 --> 00:15:55,789
♪ And the town said
"How did a middle-class divorcée do it?" ♪
244
00:15:58,458 --> 00:16:01,670
♪ The wedding was charming
If a little gauche ♪
245
00:16:01,753 --> 00:16:04,839
♪ There's only so far new money goes ♪
246
00:16:04,923 --> 00:16:08,968
♪ They picked out a home
And called it "Holiday House" ♪
247
00:16:11,638 --> 00:16:14,557
♪ Their parties were tasteful
If a little loud ♪
248
00:16:14,641 --> 00:16:17,852
♪ The doctor had told him to settle down ♪
249
00:16:17,936 --> 00:16:22,148
♪ It must have been her fault
His heart gave out ♪
250
00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:23,775
♪ And they said ♪
251
00:16:23,858 --> 00:16:27,946
♪ "There goes
The last great American dynasty ♪
252
00:16:30,699 --> 00:16:34,369
♪ Who knows, if she never showed up
What could've been ♪
253
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,001
♪ There goes the maddest woman
This town has ever seen ♪
254
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:47,048
♪ She had a marvelous time
Ruining everything" ♪
255
00:16:50,343 --> 00:16:55,765
♪ Rebekah gave up
On the Rhode Island set forever ♪
256
00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:59,644
♪ Flew in all her Bitch Pack friends
From the city ♪
257
00:17:02,105 --> 00:17:05,525
♪ Filled the pool with champagne
And swam with the big names ♪
258
00:17:05,608 --> 00:17:09,446
♪ And blew through the money on the boys
And the ballet ♪
259
00:17:09,946 --> 00:17:13,283
♪ And losing on card game bets with Dalí ♪
260
00:17:14,492 --> 00:17:15,869
♪ And they said ♪
261
00:17:15,952 --> 00:17:19,789
♪ "There goes
The last great American dynasty ♪
262
00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:25,795
♪ Who knows, if she never showed up
What could've been ♪
263
00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:32,344
♪ There goes the most shameless woman
This town has ever seen ♪
264
00:17:34,471 --> 00:17:38,350
♪ She had a marvelous time
Ruining everything" ♪
265
00:17:42,103 --> 00:17:44,731
♪ They say she was seen on occasion ♪
266
00:17:44,814 --> 00:17:48,568
♪ Pacing the rocks
Staring out at the midnight sea ♪
267
00:17:48,651 --> 00:17:51,196
♪ And in a feud with her neighbor ♪
268
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:54,866
♪ She stole his dog
And dyed it key lime green ♪
269
00:17:54,949 --> 00:17:57,744
♪ Fifty years is a long time ♪
270
00:17:57,827 --> 00:18:01,373
♪ Holiday House sat quietly
On that beach ♪
271
00:18:01,456 --> 00:18:05,835
♪ Free of women with madness
Their men and bad habits ♪
272
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:08,004
♪ And then it was bought by me ♪
273
00:18:14,469 --> 00:18:17,764
♪ Who knows, if I never showed up
What could have been ♪
274
00:18:20,558 --> 00:18:24,354
♪ There goes the loudest woman
This town has ever seen ♪
275
00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:30,777
♪ I had a marvelous time
Ruinin' everything ♪
276
00:18:32,904 --> 00:18:39,869
♪ I had a marvelous time
Ruining everything ♪
277
00:18:39,953 --> 00:18:46,376
♪ A marvelous time ruining everything ♪
278
00:18:46,459 --> 00:18:52,924
♪ A marvelous time ruinin' everything ♪
279
00:18:53,008 --> 00:18:56,594
♪ A marvelous time ♪
280
00:19:15,947 --> 00:19:17,991
I only wish our other two co-writers
were here.
281
00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:20,368
-[Antonoff] Who?
-Justin Vernon and William Bowery.
282
00:19:20,452 --> 00:19:24,789
Justin is, uh-- is, uh,
one of the greatest ever.
283
00:19:24,873 --> 00:19:27,334
William, I never got to meet.
284
00:19:27,417 --> 00:19:31,379
There's been a lot of discussion
about William Bowery and his identity
285
00:19:31,463 --> 00:19:34,466
'cause... it's not a real person.
286
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:36,051
It's not?
287
00:19:36,134 --> 00:19:37,218
Jack.
288
00:19:38,511 --> 00:19:40,096
I'm doin' a bit.
289
00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:42,098
A bit. That would've gone on forever.
290
00:19:42,182 --> 00:19:43,224
What?
291
00:19:43,308 --> 00:19:44,684
-[Swift] Who?
-When?
292
00:19:44,768 --> 00:19:48,271
So, William Bowery is Joe, as we know.
293
00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:53,526
And Joe-- Joe plays piano beautifully,
and he's always just playing
294
00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:56,321
and making things up
and kind of creating things.
295
00:19:56,404 --> 00:19:58,448
And "exile" was crazy
296
00:19:58,531 --> 00:20:03,787
'cause Joe had written
that entire piano part, that... [scats]
297
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:06,122
And it was singing
the Bon Iver part. The...
298
00:20:06,206 --> 00:20:09,334
♪ I can see you standing, honey
With his arms around your body ♪
299
00:20:09,417 --> 00:20:10,418
Jesus.
300
00:20:10,502 --> 00:20:12,170
♪ Laughin' but the joke's
Not funny at all ♪
301
00:20:12,253 --> 00:20:13,254
-And I--
-Lyrics too?
302
00:20:13,338 --> 00:20:14,923
-Yeah, he was just singing it...
-Jesus.
303
00:20:15,006 --> 00:20:17,050
...the way that the whole first verse is.
304
00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:22,639
-[Antonoff] Wow.
-And so, I was entranced
305
00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:26,726
and asked if, um, we could
keep writing that one.
306
00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:29,062
It was pretty obvious
that it should be a duet
307
00:20:29,145 --> 00:20:31,606
'cause he's got such a low voice
and it sounded really good
308
00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:34,442
-sung down there and in that register.
-Yeah.
309
00:20:34,526 --> 00:20:39,989
And then, um, we're really, really,
really big Bon Iver fans. And, you know.
310
00:20:40,073 --> 00:20:42,367
-So cool.
-We know that Aaron knows him.
311
00:20:42,951 --> 00:20:45,412
But we're-- I--
I was too afraid to suggest it.
312
00:20:45,495 --> 00:20:48,081
But, I just--
When I sent it to Aaron, I was like,
313
00:20:48,164 --> 00:20:53,503
"This is, uh, hopefully a duet.
We-- I don't know who with.
314
00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:56,965
Who would it be with?
Who do you think would be good with this?"
315
00:20:57,048 --> 00:20:59,676
And Aaron was like,
"I think Justin would love this."
316
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:01,761
[Antonoff] You're like,
"Okay, that could be interesting."
317
00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:04,639
-I couldn't say it. I couldn't say it.
-Really? Is that really what happened?
318
00:21:04,723 --> 00:21:06,433
No, I couldn't say it with words.
319
00:21:06,516 --> 00:21:10,020
Because if I would have said it
and he would have gone to Justin,
320
00:21:10,103 --> 00:21:12,814
and Justin would've said no,
it would've hurt too much.
321
00:21:12,897 --> 00:21:13,898
[Antonoff] Interesting.
322
00:21:13,982 --> 00:21:15,608
When we talked about it, I was like,
323
00:21:15,692 --> 00:21:17,777
"I think he's gonna be
really inspired by this."
324
00:21:17,861 --> 00:21:20,572
And then we sent it to him, and he was.
325
00:21:20,655 --> 00:21:25,076
And then the process of working on it
and what he sent back.
326
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,787
And he wrote--
Like, we didn't ask him to write anything,
327
00:21:27,871 --> 00:21:30,582
-but he wrote this, like--
-Yeah. He wrote this amazing bridge.
328
00:21:30,665 --> 00:21:31,958
-[Antonoff hums]
-He wrote...
329
00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:34,461
♪ So step right out
There is no amount ♪
330
00:21:34,544 --> 00:21:36,087
...and like, that whole bit.
331
00:21:36,171 --> 00:21:38,673
I kept thinking,
"This isn't really going to happen.
332
00:21:38,757 --> 00:21:41,968
Like, Justin is going
to change his mind about this
333
00:21:42,052 --> 00:21:45,555
because this isn't a part of my reality.
334
00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:47,807
There's no way
that this is going to happen.
335
00:21:47,891 --> 00:21:49,893
He's gonna record the vocals
336
00:21:49,976 --> 00:21:51,936
and then decide
he doesn't want to be on the record."
337
00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:54,439
And then, it just never--
That just never happened.
338
00:21:54,522 --> 00:21:58,735
Like, he just is on the album,
and he's just the coolest,
339
00:21:58,818 --> 00:22:01,363
and that's what's happening.
340
00:22:15,794 --> 00:22:19,005
♪ I can see you standing, honey ♪
341
00:22:19,089 --> 00:22:22,467
♪ With his arms around your body ♪
342
00:22:22,550 --> 00:22:25,929
♪ Laughin' but the joke's
Not funny at all ♪
343
00:22:29,265 --> 00:22:32,310
♪ And it took you five whole minutes ♪
344
00:22:32,394 --> 00:22:35,855
♪ To pack us up and leave me with it ♪
345
00:22:35,939 --> 00:22:39,734
♪ Holdin' all this love
Out here in the hall ♪
346
00:22:42,779 --> 00:22:46,741
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
347
00:22:46,825 --> 00:22:49,077
♪ And I didn't like the ending ♪
348
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,706
♪ You're not my homeland anymore ♪
349
00:22:53,456 --> 00:22:56,042
♪ So what am I defending now? ♪
350
00:22:56,126 --> 00:23:01,214
♪ You were my town
Now I'm in exile, seein' you out ♪
351
00:23:02,882 --> 00:23:05,719
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
352
00:23:09,305 --> 00:23:12,434
♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh ♪
353
00:23:12,517 --> 00:23:15,812
♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh ♪
354
00:23:15,895 --> 00:23:18,940
♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh ♪
355
00:23:21,985 --> 00:23:25,363
♪ I can see you starin', honey ♪
356
00:23:25,447 --> 00:23:28,742
♪ Like he's just your understudy ♪
357
00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:32,662
♪ Like you'd get
Your knuckles bloody for me ♪
358
00:23:35,415 --> 00:23:38,793
♪ Second, third, and hundredth chances ♪
359
00:23:38,877 --> 00:23:41,880
♪ Balancin' on breaking branches ♪
360
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:45,258
♪ Those eyes add insult to injury ♪
361
00:23:48,845 --> 00:23:52,849
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
362
00:23:52,932 --> 00:23:55,268
♪ And I didn't like the ending ♪
363
00:23:55,352 --> 00:23:59,522
♪ I'm not your problem anymore ♪
364
00:23:59,606 --> 00:24:02,192
♪ So who am I offending now? ♪
365
00:24:02,275 --> 00:24:07,739
♪ You were my crown
Now I'm in exile, seein' you out ♪
366
00:24:08,948 --> 00:24:12,243
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
367
00:24:12,327 --> 00:24:15,038
♪ So I'm leaving out the side door ♪
368
00:24:16,706 --> 00:24:18,541
♪ So step right out ♪
369
00:24:19,542 --> 00:24:25,674
♪ There is no amount
Of crying I can do for you ♪
370
00:24:25,757 --> 00:24:28,176
♪ All this time ♪
371
00:24:28,259 --> 00:24:30,679
♪ We always walked a very thin line ♪
372
00:24:31,471 --> 00:24:33,807
♪ You didn't even hear me out ♪
373
00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:37,060
♪ You never gave no warning sign ♪
374
00:24:38,269 --> 00:24:40,605
♪ All this time ♪
375
00:24:40,689 --> 00:24:42,691
♪ I never learned to read your mind ♪
376
00:24:42,774 --> 00:24:44,275
♪ Never learned to read my mind ♪
377
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,278
-♪ I couldn't turn things around ♪
-♪ You never turned things around ♪
378
00:24:47,362 --> 00:24:52,492
-♪ 'Cause you never gave no warning sign ♪
-♪ I gave so many signs ♪
379
00:24:52,575 --> 00:24:55,495
[together] ♪ So many signs ♪
380
00:24:55,578 --> 00:24:59,207
♪ So many signs ♪
381
00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:03,253
♪ You didn't even see the signs ♪
382
00:25:04,713 --> 00:25:08,550
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
383
00:25:08,633 --> 00:25:10,969
♪ And I didn't like the ending ♪
384
00:25:11,052 --> 00:25:14,431
♪ You're not my homeland anymore ♪
385
00:25:15,181 --> 00:25:17,726
♪ So what am I defending now? ♪
386
00:25:17,809 --> 00:25:22,605
♪ You were my town
Now I'm in exile, seein' you out ♪
387
00:25:23,815 --> 00:25:27,569
♪ I think I've seen this film before ♪
388
00:25:27,652 --> 00:25:30,321
♪ So I'm leaving out the side door ♪
389
00:25:31,906 --> 00:25:33,825
♪ So step right out ♪
390
00:25:34,826 --> 00:25:36,745
♪ There is no amount ♪
391
00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:41,624
♪ Of crying I can do for ya ♪
392
00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:43,126
♪ All this time ♪
393
00:25:43,626 --> 00:25:45,962
♪ We always walked a very thin line ♪
394
00:25:46,838 --> 00:25:50,008
-♪ You didn't even hear me out ♪
-♪ Didn't even hear me out ♪
395
00:25:50,091 --> 00:25:52,010
♪ You never gave no warning signs ♪
396
00:25:52,093 --> 00:25:56,264
-♪ I gave so many signs ♪
-♪ All this time ♪
397
00:25:56,348 --> 00:25:58,058
♪ I never learned to read your mind ♪
398
00:25:58,141 --> 00:25:59,601
♪ Never learned to read my mind ♪
399
00:25:59,684 --> 00:26:01,227
♪ I couldn't turn things around ♪
400
00:26:01,311 --> 00:26:02,645
♪ You never turned things around ♪
401
00:26:02,729 --> 00:26:04,356
♪ You never gave no warning signs ♪
402
00:26:04,439 --> 00:26:08,693
-♪ I gave so many signs ♪
-♪ All this time ♪
403
00:26:08,777 --> 00:26:11,279
♪ So many signs ♪
404
00:26:11,363 --> 00:26:14,824
[together] ♪ So many signs ♪
405
00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:21,956
[Vernon vocalizing]
406
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:28,546
[Swift vocalizing]
407
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:32,717
[both vocalizing]
408
00:26:44,145 --> 00:26:46,815
Where do we start?
I mean, to me the whole thing starts
409
00:26:46,898 --> 00:26:48,608
with "my tears ricochet."
410
00:26:48,692 --> 00:26:51,361
Yeah. Chronologically,
that's the first thing.
411
00:26:51,444 --> 00:26:53,238
I wrote that one alone.
412
00:26:53,321 --> 00:26:57,158
And it's definitely, I think,
one of the saddest songs on the album.
413
00:26:57,242 --> 00:27:01,037
Yeah. I think it's one
of the best songs you've written.
414
00:27:01,121 --> 00:27:02,122
Aw, thanks.
415
00:27:02,205 --> 00:27:05,625
Which is I think why you crowned it
as a track five.
416
00:27:05,709 --> 00:27:10,422
Yeah, picking a track five
is sort of a pressurized decision,
417
00:27:10,505 --> 00:27:12,924
but I knew from day one
this was probably gonna be it.
418
00:27:13,633 --> 00:27:16,636
-Um, it's kind of a song about karma.
-Yeah.
419
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,055
It's a song about greed.
420
00:27:19,139 --> 00:27:24,436
It's a song about how somebody
could be your best friend
421
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:28,898
and your companion
and your most trusted person in your life
422
00:27:28,982 --> 00:27:32,027
and then they could go
and become your worst enemy
423
00:27:32,110 --> 00:27:34,988
who knows how to hurt you because
they were once your most trusted person.
424
00:27:35,071 --> 00:27:37,073
-It's the worst betrayal.
-Yeah.
425
00:27:37,157 --> 00:27:39,242
It does remind me
of people going through a divorce
426
00:27:39,325 --> 00:27:43,204
and having that person
that they swore to be with forever
427
00:27:43,288 --> 00:27:47,375
then become the person that they spend
most of their time talking shit about.
428
00:27:47,459 --> 00:27:51,212
Yeah, and it is that ultimate betrayal
when someone,
429
00:27:51,296 --> 00:27:53,256
-you know, messed you up from the inside.
-Mm-hmm.
430
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:55,675
Writing this song,
it kind of occurred to me
431
00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:58,386
that in all of the superhero stories,
432
00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:04,309
the hero's greatest nemesis is the villain
that used to be his best friend.
433
00:28:04,392 --> 00:28:07,103
-Yeah.
-Um, that sort of thing.
434
00:28:07,187 --> 00:28:09,147
When you think about that, you think about
435
00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:13,610
how there's this beautiful moment
in the beginning of a friendship
436
00:28:13,693 --> 00:28:17,781
where these people have no idea
that one day they'll hate each other
437
00:28:17,864 --> 00:28:21,910
and try to really take each other out.
438
00:28:21,993 --> 00:28:24,287
-Yeah.
-I mean, that's really sad and terrible.
439
00:28:24,371 --> 00:28:27,457
But that's the bird's eye view quality
of the song that I think is so unique
440
00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:32,253
because they're both great, but sometimes
you write, like, very in the moment.
441
00:28:32,337 --> 00:28:34,881
And you're like,
"This happened, and this is how I feel."
442
00:28:34,964 --> 00:28:37,133
I love that, but this song,
443
00:28:37,217 --> 00:28:39,469
which is interesting
that it's the first one that happened
444
00:28:39,552 --> 00:28:42,847
because I think it became a huge theme
on the album, is it's very pulled back.
445
00:28:42,931 --> 00:28:46,434
It's very pulled back and commenting
on the whole experience of it.
446
00:28:46,518 --> 00:28:47,560
Um...
447
00:28:48,937 --> 00:28:50,772
It's very powerful to me.
448
00:29:02,492 --> 00:29:08,289
♪ We gather here
We line up weeping in a sunlit room ♪
449
00:29:08,373 --> 00:29:13,003
♪ And if I'm on fire ♪
450
00:29:13,086 --> 00:29:16,297
♪ You'll be made of ashes too ♪
451
00:29:16,381 --> 00:29:20,760
♪ Even on my worst day
Did I deserve, babe ♪
452
00:29:20,844 --> 00:29:23,805
♪ All the hell you gave me? ♪
453
00:29:24,472 --> 00:29:28,059
♪ 'Cause I loved you
I swear I loved you ♪
454
00:29:28,143 --> 00:29:30,770
♪ Till my dying day ♪
455
00:29:34,024 --> 00:29:40,405
♪ I didn't have it in myself
To go with grace ♪
456
00:29:41,406 --> 00:29:47,787
♪ And you're the hero flying around
Saving face ♪
457
00:29:48,788 --> 00:29:54,210
♪ And if I'm dead to you
Why are you at the wake? ♪
458
00:29:54,294 --> 00:29:58,173
♪ Cursing my name
Wishing I stayed ♪
459
00:29:58,256 --> 00:30:01,551
♪ Look at how my tears ricochet ♪
460
00:30:16,232 --> 00:30:22,864
♪ We gather stones
Never knowing what they'll mean ♪
461
00:30:23,865 --> 00:30:30,080
♪ Some to throw
Some to make a diamond ring ♪
462
00:30:30,163 --> 00:30:34,459
♪ You know I didn't want to
Have to haunt you ♪
463
00:30:34,542 --> 00:30:37,212
♪ But what a ghostly scene ♪
464
00:30:38,046 --> 00:30:41,925
♪ You wear the same jewels
That I gave you ♪
465
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:44,969
♪ As you bury me ♪
466
00:30:47,764 --> 00:30:54,187
♪ I didn't have it in myself
To go with grace ♪
467
00:30:55,188 --> 00:31:01,611
♪ 'Cause when I'd fight
You used to tell me I was brave ♪
468
00:31:02,612 --> 00:31:08,201
♪ And if I'm dead to you
Why are you at the wake? ♪
469
00:31:08,284 --> 00:31:11,955
♪ Cursing my name
Wishing I stayed ♪
470
00:31:12,038 --> 00:31:15,000
♪ Look at how my tears ricochet ♪
471
00:31:15,083 --> 00:31:19,379
♪ And I can go anywhere I want ♪
472
00:31:19,462 --> 00:31:22,841
♪ Anywhere I want
Just not home ♪
473
00:31:22,924 --> 00:31:26,428
♪ And you can aim for my heart
Go for blood ♪
474
00:31:26,511 --> 00:31:30,432
♪ But you would still miss me
In your bones ♪
475
00:31:30,515 --> 00:31:33,393
♪ And I still talk to you ♪
476
00:31:34,185 --> 00:31:37,772
♪ When I'm screaming at the sky ♪
477
00:31:37,856 --> 00:31:41,359
♪ And when you can't sleep at night ♪
478
00:31:41,443 --> 00:31:46,781
♪ You hear my stolen lullabies ♪
479
00:31:53,913 --> 00:32:00,920
♪ I didn't have it in myself
To go with grace ♪
480
00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:08,553
♪ And so, the battleships will sink
Beneath the waves ♪
481
00:32:09,054 --> 00:32:14,684
♪ You had to kill me
But it killed you just the same ♪
482
00:32:14,768 --> 00:32:18,188
♪ You're cursing my name
Wishing I stayed ♪
483
00:32:18,271 --> 00:32:21,441
♪ You turned into your worst fears ♪
484
00:32:21,524 --> 00:32:25,737
♪ And you're tossing out blame
Drunk on this pain ♪
485
00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:28,281
♪ Crossing out the good years ♪
486
00:32:28,365 --> 00:32:32,994
♪ And you're cursing my name
Wishing I'd stayed ♪
487
00:32:33,078 --> 00:32:36,706
♪ Look at how my tears ricochet ♪
488
00:32:40,502 --> 00:32:44,381
♪ Yeah, look at how my tears ricochet ♪
489
00:32:48,051 --> 00:32:52,180
♪ Look at all of my tears ♪
490
00:32:55,767 --> 00:32:59,604
♪ Turning into your tears ♪
491
00:33:03,441 --> 00:33:07,070
♪ Look at how my tears ricochet ♪
492
00:33:14,494 --> 00:33:15,995
[sighs]
493
00:33:24,963 --> 00:33:28,591
In folklore, there are a lot of songs that
reference each other or lyrical parallels,
494
00:33:28,675 --> 00:33:34,097
and one of the ones that I like
is the entire song "this is me trying"
495
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:36,766
then being referenced again
in "mirrorball,"
496
00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:39,352
which is, "I've never been a natural.
All I do is try."
497
00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:42,564
Yeah, I remember that being an interesting
one for you to actually put down.
498
00:33:42,647 --> 00:33:45,191
'Cause I remember you said it,
and you did it, and you were like,
499
00:33:45,275 --> 00:33:48,528
-"Should I say that? Should I--"
-I was like, "Is that too true? Is that--"
500
00:33:48,611 --> 00:33:53,283
And I think with "mirrorball," sometimes
when I'm writing to an instrumental track,
501
00:33:53,366 --> 00:33:56,327
I'll push play,
and I'll immediately see a scene set.
502
00:33:56,411 --> 00:34:00,915
And this was one of those cases
where I just saw, you know,
503
00:34:00,999 --> 00:34:06,212
lonely disco ball,
twinkly lights, neon signs,
504
00:34:06,296 --> 00:34:08,423
people drinking beer by the bar,
505
00:34:08,506 --> 00:34:11,676
um, a couple of stragglers
on the dance floor.
506
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:17,390
Just sort of a sad, moonlit,
lonely experience
507
00:34:17,474 --> 00:34:20,018
in the middle of a town
that you've never been.
508
00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:22,479
And I just was thinking,
509
00:34:22,562 --> 00:34:25,815
"Okay, so we have mirrorballs
in the middle of a dance floor
510
00:34:25,899 --> 00:34:27,984
because they reflect light.
511
00:34:28,068 --> 00:34:32,822
They are broken a million times,
and that's what makes them so shiny.
512
00:34:32,906 --> 00:34:35,033
We have people like that in society too.
513
00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:38,244
They hang there, and every time
they break, it entertains us."
514
00:34:38,328 --> 00:34:40,163
-Yeah.
-And...
515
00:34:40,246 --> 00:34:45,126
"And when you shine a light on them,
it's this glittering, fantastic thing,
516
00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:48,046
but then a lot of the time
when the spotlight isn't on them
517
00:34:48,129 --> 00:34:53,468
they're still there, up on a pedestal,
but nobody's watching them."
518
00:34:53,551 --> 00:34:55,970
It's a myth we love,
and then we create it for people.
519
00:34:56,054 --> 00:34:57,055
Yeah. It's the whole--
520
00:34:57,138 --> 00:34:58,932
-Like, "Do the broken thing."
-Do the broken thing.
521
00:34:59,015 --> 00:35:01,309
"Make it fun. Now make it sad.
Now make it cool. Now make it sad."
522
00:35:01,393 --> 00:35:03,561
-Yeah, but when the light's off, be okay.
-Yeah.
523
00:35:03,645 --> 00:35:06,356
It was a metaphor for celebrity,
but it's also a metaphor
524
00:35:06,439 --> 00:35:09,734
for so many people
who have to feel, like--
525
00:35:09,818 --> 00:35:13,446
Everybody else feels like
they have to be on for certain people.
526
00:35:13,530 --> 00:35:17,033
For-- You have to be different versions
of yourself for different people.
527
00:35:17,117 --> 00:35:19,577
Different versions at work,
different versions around friends,
528
00:35:19,661 --> 00:35:22,872
different versions of yourself
around different friends.
529
00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:25,041
Different version of yourself
around family.
530
00:35:25,125 --> 00:35:29,129
-Yeah.
-Everybody has to be duplicitous, um...
531
00:35:29,212 --> 00:35:33,091
or feels that they have to,
in some ways, be duplicitous.
532
00:35:33,174 --> 00:35:36,928
And that's part of the human experience,
but it's also exhausting.
533
00:35:37,012 --> 00:35:39,055
And you kind of learn
534
00:35:39,139 --> 00:35:43,893
that every one of us has the ability
to become a shape-shifter.
535
00:35:44,477 --> 00:35:46,062
-Totally.
-But what does that do to us?
536
00:35:46,146 --> 00:35:49,107
And it also is the first time,
and one of the only times,
537
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:54,029
that the time that we're living through
is actually lyrically addressed.
538
00:35:54,112 --> 00:35:58,825
Um, I think that, you know,
the pandemic and lockdown and all that
539
00:35:58,908 --> 00:36:01,453
runs through this album like a thread
because it's an album
540
00:36:01,536 --> 00:36:04,330
that allows you to feel your feelings,
and it's a product of isolation.
541
00:36:04,414 --> 00:36:09,377
It's a product of all this,
you know, rumination on
542
00:36:09,461 --> 00:36:12,464
what we are as humans, blah, blah, blah.
543
00:36:12,547 --> 00:36:14,632
But this is the first time
in the bridge saying,
544
00:36:14,716 --> 00:36:16,926
"They called off the circus,
burned the disco down
545
00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:19,137
when they sent home the horses
and the rodeo clowns."
546
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:22,390
I wrote this song right after
I found out all my shows were canceled.
547
00:36:22,474 --> 00:36:24,100
And it's like I'm still on that tightrope.
548
00:36:24,184 --> 00:36:27,645
I'm still trying everything to keep you--
to get you laughing at me.
549
00:36:27,729 --> 00:36:33,568
So, it's like, I realize, here I am
writing all this music, still trying,
550
00:36:33,651 --> 00:36:37,072
and I know I have an excuse to sit back
and not do something,
551
00:36:37,155 --> 00:36:38,865
but I'm not, and I can't,
552
00:36:38,948 --> 00:36:41,034
-and I don't know why that is.
-You don't get it.
553
00:36:41,117 --> 00:36:45,622
But that's what makes it, to me,
a great piece of pandemic-time work,
554
00:36:45,705 --> 00:36:47,332
is that it's not about the pandemic.
555
00:36:47,415 --> 00:36:50,293
It's about the experience
of what happens to an artist
556
00:36:50,377 --> 00:36:51,795
when you're living through a pandemic.
557
00:36:51,878 --> 00:36:54,297
-Yeah. You start there-- You start--
-You start to dream.
558
00:36:55,215 --> 00:36:56,257
Yep.
559
00:37:12,982 --> 00:37:19,948
♪ I want you to know ♪
560
00:37:20,865 --> 00:37:24,828
♪ I'm a mirrorball ♪
561
00:37:24,911 --> 00:37:31,501
♪ I'll show you every version
Of yourself tonight ♪
562
00:37:33,461 --> 00:37:37,173
♪ I'll get you out on the floor ♪
563
00:37:37,882 --> 00:37:41,720
♪ Shimmering beautiful ♪
564
00:37:42,345 --> 00:37:47,892
♪ And when I break
It's in a million pieces ♪
565
00:37:48,685 --> 00:37:53,481
♪ Hush
When no one is around, my dear ♪
566
00:37:55,191 --> 00:37:59,070
♪ You'll find me on my tallest tiptoes ♪
567
00:37:59,779 --> 00:38:02,991
♪ Spinning in my highest heels, love ♪
568
00:38:03,074 --> 00:38:05,201
♪ Shining just for you ♪
569
00:38:06,202 --> 00:38:10,832
♪ Hush
I know they said the end is near ♪
570
00:38:12,709 --> 00:38:16,546
♪ But I'm still on my tallest tiptoes ♪
571
00:38:17,172 --> 00:38:20,425
♪ Spinning in my highest heels, love ♪
572
00:38:20,508 --> 00:38:22,677
♪ Shining just for you ♪
573
00:38:23,678 --> 00:38:29,684
♪ I want you to know ♪
574
00:38:30,268 --> 00:38:34,272
♪ I'm a mirrorball ♪
575
00:38:34,773 --> 00:38:39,819
♪ I can change everything
About me to fit in ♪
576
00:38:39,903 --> 00:38:46,910
♪ You are not like the regulars ♪
577
00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:51,706
♪ The masquerade revelers ♪
578
00:38:52,207 --> 00:38:57,212
♪ Drunk as they watch
My shattered edges glisten ♪
579
00:38:58,463 --> 00:39:03,093
♪ Hush
When no one is around, my dear ♪
580
00:39:05,053 --> 00:39:08,807
♪ You'll find me on my tallest tiptoes ♪
581
00:39:09,516 --> 00:39:12,769
♪ Spinning in my highest heels, love ♪
582
00:39:12,852 --> 00:39:14,979
♪ Shining just for you ♪
583
00:39:15,980 --> 00:39:20,568
♪ Hush
I know they said the end is near ♪
584
00:39:22,529 --> 00:39:26,157
♪ But I'm still on my tallest tiptoes ♪
585
00:39:27,033 --> 00:39:30,078
♪ Spinning in my highest heels, love ♪
586
00:39:30,161 --> 00:39:32,622
♪ Shining just for you ♪
587
00:39:33,456 --> 00:39:37,085
♪ And they called off the circus
Burned the disco down ♪
588
00:39:37,836 --> 00:39:41,673
♪ When they sent home the horses
And the rodeo clowns ♪
589
00:39:42,173 --> 00:39:44,259
♪ I'm still on that tightrope ♪
590
00:39:44,342 --> 00:39:50,098
♪ I'm still trying everything
To get you laughing at me ♪
591
00:39:50,890 --> 00:39:54,394
♪ And I'm still a believer
But I don't know why ♪
592
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:59,607
♪ I've never been a natural
All I do is try, try, try ♪
593
00:39:59,691 --> 00:40:01,776
♪ I'm still on that trapeze ♪
594
00:40:01,860 --> 00:40:07,574
♪ I'm still trying everything
To keep you looking at me ♪
595
00:40:10,535 --> 00:40:13,955
♪ Because I'm a mirrorball ♪
596
00:40:15,415 --> 00:40:18,793
♪ I'm a mirrorball ♪
597
00:40:19,461 --> 00:40:26,468
♪ I'll show you every version
Of yourself tonight ♪
598
00:40:33,641 --> 00:40:36,269
With "seven," the song,
I was looking back on it.
599
00:40:36,353 --> 00:40:37,896
I've always wondered--
600
00:40:37,979 --> 00:40:41,399
When I see a kid throwing
a massive tantrum in a grocery store,
601
00:40:41,483 --> 00:40:43,818
-part of me is like, "Man, I feel you."
-[Antonoff chuckles]
602
00:40:43,902 --> 00:40:46,738
Like, "When did I stop doing that
when I was upset?"
603
00:40:46,821 --> 00:40:51,576
Like, "When did I stop being so outraged
that I would throw myself on the floor
604
00:40:51,659 --> 00:40:54,704
and throw the cereal at my mom?"
605
00:40:54,788 --> 00:40:57,540
Well, it also doesn't stop,
but where does it go?
606
00:40:57,624 --> 00:40:58,708
-Yeah.
-That feeling.
607
00:40:58,792 --> 00:41:00,752
Like, we're still having that feeling,
but what is it now?
608
00:41:00,835 --> 00:41:03,672
Yeah, so the idea is, you know,
please picture me before I learn civility.
609
00:41:03,755 --> 00:41:07,175
Like, I used to scream anytime I wanted.
610
00:41:07,258 --> 00:41:09,969
Obviously, you know, we can't be
throwing tantrums all the time,
611
00:41:10,053 --> 00:41:12,764
and we learn that
that's not the right thing to do,
612
00:41:12,847 --> 00:41:15,392
but there's something lost there too.
613
00:41:16,184 --> 00:41:20,647
♪ Please picture me ♪
614
00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:23,024
♪ In the trees ♪
615
00:41:23,108 --> 00:41:28,488
♪ I hit my peak at seven feet ♪
616
00:41:28,571 --> 00:41:30,573
♪ In the swing ♪
617
00:41:30,657 --> 00:41:33,034
♪ Over the creek ♪
618
00:41:33,118 --> 00:41:35,912
♪ I was too scared to jump in ♪
619
00:41:35,995 --> 00:41:41,001
♪ But I, I was high ♪
620
00:41:41,084 --> 00:41:43,294
♪ In the sky ♪
621
00:41:43,378 --> 00:41:50,385
♪ With Pennsylvania under me ♪
622
00:41:50,468 --> 00:41:55,140
♪ Are there still beautiful things? ♪
623
00:41:57,767 --> 00:41:59,352
♪ Sweet tea in the summer ♪
624
00:41:59,436 --> 00:42:02,188
♪ Cross your heart
Won't tell no other ♪
625
00:42:02,272 --> 00:42:04,691
♪ And though I can't recall your face ♪
626
00:42:04,774 --> 00:42:06,943
♪ I still got love for you ♪
627
00:42:07,944 --> 00:42:09,571
♪ Your braids make a pattern ♪
628
00:42:09,654 --> 00:42:12,365
♪ Love you to the moon and to Saturn ♪
629
00:42:12,449 --> 00:42:14,784
♪ Passed down like folk songs ♪
630
00:42:14,868 --> 00:42:20,540
♪ The love lasts so long ♪
631
00:42:38,266 --> 00:42:40,977
♪ And I've been meaning to tell you ♪
632
00:42:41,061 --> 00:42:43,521
♪ I think your house is haunted ♪
633
00:42:43,605 --> 00:42:48,610
♪ Your dad is always mad
And that must be why ♪
634
00:42:48,693 --> 00:42:51,446
♪ I think you should come live with me ♪
635
00:42:51,529 --> 00:42:53,531
♪ And we can be pirates ♪
636
00:42:53,615 --> 00:42:55,742
♪ Then you won't have to cry ♪
637
00:42:56,659 --> 00:42:58,995
♪ Or hide in the closet ♪
638
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:01,164
♪ And just like a folk song ♪
639
00:43:01,706 --> 00:43:06,419
♪ Our love will be passed on ♪
640
00:43:07,587 --> 00:43:11,925
♪ Please picture me ♪
641
00:43:12,008 --> 00:43:14,135
♪ In the weeds ♪
642
00:43:14,219 --> 00:43:18,973
♪ Before I learned civility ♪
643
00:43:19,057 --> 00:43:24,562
♪ I used to scream ferociously ♪
644
00:43:24,646 --> 00:43:27,607
♪ Anytime I wanted ♪
645
00:43:27,691 --> 00:43:31,486
♪ Oh ♪
646
00:43:31,569 --> 00:43:35,990
♪ Oh ♪
647
00:43:38,827 --> 00:43:40,286
♪ Sweet tea in the summer ♪
648
00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:43,248
♪ Cross your heart
Won't tell no other ♪
649
00:43:43,331 --> 00:43:45,792
♪ And though I can't recall your face ♪
650
00:43:45,875 --> 00:43:48,253
♪ I still got love for you ♪
651
00:43:48,753 --> 00:43:50,839
♪ Pack your dolls in a sweater ♪
652
00:43:50,922 --> 00:43:53,258
♪ We'll move to India forever ♪
653
00:43:53,341 --> 00:43:55,802
♪ Passed down like folk songs ♪
654
00:43:55,885 --> 00:44:01,307
♪ The love lasts so long ♪
655
00:44:46,728 --> 00:44:49,939
It's a weird experience,
uh, to work with you.
656
00:44:50,023 --> 00:44:52,067
-[laughs]
-And now Aaron can understand it.
657
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:53,693
No, I'm serious because it's like,
658
00:44:53,777 --> 00:44:55,278
"Here's the song.
Oh wait, here's the bridge.
659
00:44:55,362 --> 00:44:57,572
Wait, here's a better bridge.
Okay, now I have the perfect bridge.
660
00:44:57,655 --> 00:45:00,033
Then here's a thing after the bridge,
and this thing's gonna come in--"
661
00:45:00,116 --> 00:45:02,285
♪ Remember when I pulled up
And said, "Get in the car" ♪
662
00:45:02,369 --> 00:45:03,578
I wrote that in the vocal booth.
663
00:45:03,661 --> 00:45:05,413
Yes! So there's series of--
664
00:45:05,497 --> 00:45:07,165
♪ Canceled my plans
Just in case you'd call ♪
665
00:45:07,248 --> 00:45:09,918
And so-- But hearing the patchwork
of that whole thing coming together,
666
00:45:10,001 --> 00:45:11,670
I was just like, um...
667
00:45:11,753 --> 00:45:14,339
I just love what you did on that song.
668
00:45:14,422 --> 00:45:16,800
-It takes me away.
-Thanks. I love what you did on that song.
669
00:45:16,883 --> 00:45:19,219
And I've been kinda in my head,
like, calling the girl from "august"
670
00:45:19,302 --> 00:45:22,097
-either Augusta or Augustine.
-Oh, nice.
671
00:45:22,180 --> 00:45:25,100
-I've been naming her that in my head.
-Well, that changes things for me.
672
00:45:25,183 --> 00:45:27,727
Cause she's really nameless to me,
but now it's forever changed.
673
00:45:27,811 --> 00:45:29,813
[chuckles] What happened in my head was,
674
00:45:29,896 --> 00:45:33,483
okay, so "cardigan"
is Betty's perspective from,
675
00:45:33,566 --> 00:45:37,320
like, 20 to 30 years later,
looking back on this love
676
00:45:37,404 --> 00:45:38,822
that was this tumultuous thing.
677
00:45:38,905 --> 00:45:42,117
In my head, I think Betty and James
ended up together.
678
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,201
-Right?
-Interesting.
679
00:45:43,284 --> 00:45:46,246
So, in my head, she ends up with him,
but he really put her through it.
680
00:45:46,329 --> 00:45:49,165
But, like, "august" was obviously about
681
00:45:49,249 --> 00:45:52,585
the girl that James had
this summer with, right?
682
00:45:52,669 --> 00:45:55,672
So she seems like she's a bad girl,
but really, she's not a bad girl.
683
00:45:55,755 --> 00:45:58,800
She's, like, really a sensitive person
who really fell for him.
684
00:45:58,883 --> 00:46:02,470
And she was trying to seem cool
and seem like she didn't care
685
00:46:02,554 --> 00:46:04,514
because that's what girls have to do.
686
00:46:04,597 --> 00:46:07,851
And she was trying to let him think
that she didn't care,
687
00:46:07,934 --> 00:46:10,603
but she really did, and she thought
they had something very real.
688
00:46:11,312 --> 00:46:13,565
And then he goes back to Betty.
689
00:46:13,648 --> 00:46:17,277
So the idea that there's some,
like, some bad, villain girl
690
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,738
in any type of situation who,
like, takes your man
691
00:46:19,821 --> 00:46:24,784
is actually a total myth because
that's not usually the case at all.
692
00:46:24,868 --> 00:46:27,203
Like, everybody has feelings
and wants to be seen and loved,
693
00:46:27,287 --> 00:46:29,622
and just, like, Augustine,
that's all she wanted was love.
694
00:46:29,706 --> 00:46:32,334
That's what I love about "august" is,
like, it's not a dream.
695
00:46:32,417 --> 00:46:35,045
Even though it sort of sounds like it.
Like, it feels--
696
00:46:35,128 --> 00:46:37,088
The situation feels very close to me.
697
00:46:37,172 --> 00:46:38,757
-Like, getting swept up like that.
-Yeah.
698
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,427
That whole song started with the fact
that I had written down in my phone,
699
00:46:42,510 --> 00:46:46,014
"Meet me behind the mall" years ago,
wanting to write it into a song.
700
00:46:47,724 --> 00:46:53,396
♪ Salt air
And the rust on your door ♪
701
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,193
♪ I never needed anything more ♪
702
00:46:58,276 --> 00:47:04,532
♪ Whispers
Of "Are you sure?" ♪
703
00:47:04,616 --> 00:47:08,119
♪ "Never have I ever before" ♪
704
00:47:08,203 --> 00:47:11,164
♪ But I can see us
Lost in the memory ♪
705
00:47:11,247 --> 00:47:14,793
♪ August slipped away
Into a moment in time ♪
706
00:47:15,418 --> 00:47:17,712
♪ 'Cause it was never mine ♪
707
00:47:19,005 --> 00:47:21,883
♪ And I can see us
Twisted in bedsheets ♪
708
00:47:21,966 --> 00:47:25,387
♪ August sipped away
Like a bottle of wine ♪
709
00:47:26,012 --> 00:47:30,433
♪ Cause you were never mine ♪
710
00:47:30,517 --> 00:47:35,897
♪ Your back
Beneath the sun ♪
711
00:47:36,523 --> 00:47:40,485
♪ Wishing I could write my name on it ♪
712
00:47:40,568 --> 00:47:46,533
♪ Will you call
When you're back at school? ♪
713
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,704
♪ I remember thinking I had you ♪
714
00:47:50,787 --> 00:47:53,790
♪ But I can see us
Lost in the memory ♪
715
00:47:53,873 --> 00:47:57,335
♪ August slipped away
Into a moment in time ♪
716
00:47:58,003 --> 00:48:00,171
♪ 'Cause it was never mine ♪
717
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,551
♪ And I can see us
Twisted in bedsheets ♪
718
00:48:04,634 --> 00:48:08,054
♪ August sipped away
Like a bottle of wine ♪
719
00:48:08,638 --> 00:48:11,433
♪ Cause you were never mine ♪
720
00:48:11,516 --> 00:48:13,768
♪ Oh ♪
721
00:48:23,111 --> 00:48:27,115
♪ Back when we were still changing
For the better ♪
722
00:48:27,198 --> 00:48:29,200
♪ Wanting was enough ♪
723
00:48:29,284 --> 00:48:31,578
♪ For me it was enough ♪
724
00:48:33,246 --> 00:48:35,290
♪ To live for the hope of it all ♪
725
00:48:35,373 --> 00:48:37,375
♪ Cancel plans just in case you'd call ♪
726
00:48:37,459 --> 00:48:39,753
♪ And say
"Meet me behind the mall" ♪
727
00:48:40,253 --> 00:48:43,006
♪ So much for summer love
And saying "us" ♪
728
00:48:43,089 --> 00:48:48,511
♪ Cause you weren't mine to lose ♪
729
00:48:48,595 --> 00:48:52,015
♪ You weren't mine to lose ♪
730
00:48:52,098 --> 00:48:53,767
♪ No ♪
731
00:48:55,310 --> 00:48:57,729
♪ Cause I can see us
Lost in the memory ♪
732
00:48:57,812 --> 00:49:01,024
♪ August slipped away
Into a moment in time ♪
733
00:49:02,067 --> 00:49:03,860
♪ 'Cause it was never mine ♪
734
00:49:05,653 --> 00:49:08,490
♪ And I can see us
Twisted in bedsheets ♪
735
00:49:08,573 --> 00:49:11,951
♪ August sipped away
Like a bottle of wine ♪
736
00:49:12,952 --> 00:49:16,623
♪ You were never mine, mine ♪
737
00:49:18,249 --> 00:49:20,585
♪ You were never mine ♪
738
00:49:20,669 --> 00:49:22,754
♪ Never mine ♪
739
00:49:24,839 --> 00:49:26,591
♪ Do you remember? ♪
740
00:49:26,675 --> 00:49:29,469
♪ Remember when I pulled up
And said, "Get in the car" ♪
741
00:49:29,552 --> 00:49:32,389
♪ And then canceled my plans
Just in case you'd call ♪
742
00:49:32,472 --> 00:49:34,849
♪ Back when I was living
For the hope of it all ♪
743
00:49:34,933 --> 00:49:36,393
♪ For the hope of it all ♪
744
00:49:36,476 --> 00:49:38,978
♪ "Meet me behind the mall" ♪
745
00:49:39,938 --> 00:49:43,024
♪ And then I canceled my plans
Just in case you'd call ♪
746
00:49:43,108 --> 00:49:45,610
♪ Back when I was living
For the hope of it all ♪
747
00:49:45,694 --> 00:49:47,112
♪ For the hope of it all ♪
748
00:49:48,029 --> 00:49:50,573
♪ Remember when I pulled up
And said, "Get in the car" ♪
749
00:49:50,657 --> 00:49:53,368
♪ And then canceled my plans
Just in case you'd call ♪
750
00:49:53,451 --> 00:49:56,246
♪ Back when I was living
For the hope of it all ♪
751
00:49:56,329 --> 00:49:57,789
♪ For the hope of it all ♪
752
00:49:57,872 --> 00:50:00,083
♪ "Meet me behind the mall" ♪
753
00:50:42,334 --> 00:50:44,252
[laughs]
754
00:50:47,088 --> 00:50:48,048
I loved that.
755
00:50:53,678 --> 00:50:57,265
I'd been thinking about addiction,
and I'd been thinking about people who,
756
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:59,225
if they're either suffering
through mental illness
757
00:50:59,309 --> 00:51:03,146
or they're suffering through addiction
or they have an everyday struggle.
758
00:51:04,564 --> 00:51:07,275
No one pats them on the back every day,
759
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:10,111
but every day
they are actively fighting something.
760
00:51:10,737 --> 00:51:15,450
But there are so many days
that nobody gives them credit for that.
761
00:51:15,533 --> 00:51:16,576
-Yeah.
-And so,
762
00:51:16,659 --> 00:51:20,830
how often must somebody
who's in that sort of internal struggle
763
00:51:20,914 --> 00:51:23,208
must wanna say to everyone in the room,
764
00:51:23,291 --> 00:51:28,963
"You have no idea how close I am
to going back to a dark place,"
765
00:51:29,047 --> 00:51:30,298
-or, "You have no idea."
-Yeah.
766
00:51:30,382 --> 00:51:32,967
"You have no idea
how hard it is to get to the point
767
00:51:33,051 --> 00:51:35,637
-where you guys think is still shitty."
-Yes.
768
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:37,681
Like, I think about that a lot. Like...
769
00:51:37,764 --> 00:51:43,478
The idea of...
the idea of doing your best, or trying,
770
00:51:43,561 --> 00:51:47,399
is one that only a person knows,
and you know when you're doing it.
771
00:51:47,482 --> 00:51:50,151
And it's so hard,
which is what I get from that song,
772
00:51:50,235 --> 00:51:53,613
when you're doing your damn best,
and it's not good enough.
773
00:51:53,697 --> 00:51:55,407
-Yep.
-And it rarely is.
774
00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:56,991
-Yeah.
-Um...
775
00:51:57,784 --> 00:52:00,745
But it's, you know,
it's a very isolating feeling
776
00:52:00,829 --> 00:52:02,330
which, I think, is funny
777
00:52:02,414 --> 00:52:04,541
'cause it actually is
the thing that binds all of us.
778
00:52:04,624 --> 00:52:08,253
Cause we're all doing our best and feeling
like it's not even close to good enough.
779
00:52:08,336 --> 00:52:10,463
Yeah, I had this idea
that the first verse would be
780
00:52:10,547 --> 00:52:14,801
about someone
who is in sort of a life crisis
781
00:52:14,884 --> 00:52:17,095
and has just been trying and failing
782
00:52:17,178 --> 00:52:19,556
and trying and failing
in their relationship,
783
00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:22,225
has been messing things up
with the people they love,
784
00:52:22,308 --> 00:52:24,185
has been letting everyone down,
785
00:52:24,269 --> 00:52:27,814
and kind of has driven to this overlook,
this cliff,
786
00:52:27,897 --> 00:52:32,527
and is just in the car going,
"I could, like...
787
00:52:32,610 --> 00:52:37,115
I could do whatever I want in this moment,
and it could affect everything forever."
788
00:52:37,198 --> 00:52:40,285
But this person backs up
and drives home, and--
789
00:52:40,368 --> 00:52:43,955
Yeah, I love that. The idea that not
driving off the cliff is an act of trying.
790
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:44,873
Yeah.
791
00:52:44,956 --> 00:52:46,624
Which is almost
the ultimate act of trying.
792
00:52:46,708 --> 00:52:49,127
Yeah. And then
the second verse is about...
793
00:52:50,086 --> 00:52:53,590
um, you know, someone who felt like
they had a lot of potential in their life.
794
00:52:53,673 --> 00:52:57,177
I think there are a lot of mechanisms
for us in our school days,
795
00:52:57,260 --> 00:53:01,181
in high school or college, to excel and
to be patted on the back for something.
796
00:53:01,264 --> 00:53:03,558
And then I think a lot of people
get out of school
797
00:53:03,641 --> 00:53:08,396
and there are less abilities
for them to get gold stars.
798
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,608
And then you have to make all these
decisions and pave your own way,
799
00:53:11,691 --> 00:53:14,778
and there's no set class course
you can take, and there's--
800
00:53:14,861 --> 00:53:18,281
And, I think a lot of people feel
really swept up in that.
801
00:53:18,365 --> 00:53:22,827
And so I was thinking about this person
who is really lost in life
802
00:53:22,911 --> 00:53:28,625
and then starts drinking
and every second is trying not to.
803
00:53:28,708 --> 00:53:29,709
Yeah.
804
00:53:42,931 --> 00:53:46,142
♪ I've been having a hard time adjusting ♪
805
00:53:46,226 --> 00:53:49,562
♪ I had the shiniest wheels
Now they're rusting ♪
806
00:53:49,646 --> 00:53:53,274
♪ I didn't know if you'd care
If I came back ♪
807
00:53:53,358 --> 00:53:56,569
♪ I have a lot of regrets about that ♪
808
00:53:57,070 --> 00:54:00,448
♪ Pulled the car off the road
To the lookout ♪
809
00:54:00,532 --> 00:54:03,868
♪ Could've followed my fears
All the way down ♪
810
00:54:03,952 --> 00:54:06,955
♪ And maybe I don't quite know
What to say ♪
811
00:54:07,038 --> 00:54:08,957
♪ But I'm here in your doorway ♪
812
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:14,587
♪ I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
813
00:54:15,964 --> 00:54:21,553
♪ I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
814
00:54:38,862 --> 00:54:42,699
♪ They told me
All of my cages were mental ♪
815
00:54:42,782 --> 00:54:46,119
♪ So I got wasted like all my potential ♪
816
00:54:46,202 --> 00:54:49,831
♪ And my words shoot to kill
When I'm mad ♪
817
00:54:49,914 --> 00:54:53,043
♪ I have a lot of regrets about that ♪
818
00:54:53,126 --> 00:54:56,963
♪ I was so ahead of the curve
The curve became a sphere ♪
819
00:54:57,047 --> 00:55:00,759
♪ Fell behind all my classmates
And I ended up here ♪
820
00:55:00,842 --> 00:55:05,638
♪ Pouring out my heart to a stranger
But I didn't pour the whiskey ♪
821
00:55:05,722 --> 00:55:11,478
♪ I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
822
00:55:11,561 --> 00:55:18,026
♪ I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
823
00:55:19,944 --> 00:55:22,822
♪ At least I'm trying ♪
824
00:55:35,126 --> 00:55:39,506
♪ And it's hard to be at a party
When I feel like an open wound ♪
825
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:43,051
♪ It's hard to be anywhere these days
When all I want is you ♪
826
00:55:43,134 --> 00:55:47,097
♪ You're a flashback in a film reel
On the one screen in my town ♪
827
00:55:47,597 --> 00:55:53,853
♪ And I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
828
00:55:54,854 --> 00:56:00,110
♪ I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying ♪
829
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,240
♪ At least I'm trying ♪
830
00:56:22,173 --> 00:56:26,177
This was the first album
that I've ever let go of that need
831
00:56:26,261 --> 00:56:28,388
to be 100% autobiographical
832
00:56:28,471 --> 00:56:30,932
because I think I felt like
I needed to do that,
833
00:56:31,016 --> 00:56:34,185
and I felt like fans needed to hear,
834
00:56:34,269 --> 00:56:37,439
like, a stripped-from-the-headlines
account of my life.
835
00:56:37,522 --> 00:56:40,734
And actually,
it ended up being a bit confining
836
00:56:40,817 --> 00:56:44,738
because there's so much more
to writing songs
837
00:56:44,821 --> 00:56:48,616
than just what you're feeling
in your singular story line.
838
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:50,910
And this was the first time
that I ever was like--
839
00:56:50,994 --> 00:56:54,080
I think it was spurred on by the fact
that I was watching movies every day.
840
00:56:54,164 --> 00:56:55,415
I was reading books every day.
841
00:56:55,498 --> 00:56:57,625
I was thinking
about other people every day.
842
00:56:57,709 --> 00:57:03,131
I was kind of outside
of my own personal stuff.
843
00:57:03,214 --> 00:57:05,133
And so I ended up just, like--
844
00:57:05,216 --> 00:57:07,635
I think that's been my favorite thing
about this album,
845
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:13,099
is that it's allowed to exist
on its own merit without it just being,
846
00:57:13,183 --> 00:57:14,517
"Oh, people are listening to this
847
00:57:14,601 --> 00:57:17,604
because it tells them something
that they could read in a tabloid."
848
00:57:18,438 --> 00:57:19,647
Interesting.
849
00:57:19,731 --> 00:57:23,193
It-- It to me fees like-- it feels like
a completely different experience.
850
00:57:30,283 --> 00:57:33,411
♪ Make sure nobody sees you leave ♪
851
00:57:34,037 --> 00:57:37,499
♪ Hood over your head
Keep your eyes down ♪
852
00:57:38,375 --> 00:57:40,877
♪ Tell your friends you're out for a run ♪
853
00:57:42,253 --> 00:57:45,006
♪ You'll be flushed when you return ♪
854
00:57:46,257 --> 00:57:50,053
♪ Take the road less traveled by ♪
855
00:57:50,136 --> 00:57:53,431
♪ Tell yourself you can always stop ♪
856
00:57:54,557 --> 00:57:57,477
♪ What started in beautiful rooms ♪
857
00:57:58,269 --> 00:58:00,730
♪ Ends with meetings in parking lots ♪
858
00:58:00,814 --> 00:58:04,234
♪ And that's the thing
About illicit affairs ♪
859
00:58:04,317 --> 00:58:08,363
♪ And clandestine meetings
And longing stares ♪
860
00:58:08,446 --> 00:58:12,033
♪ It's born from just one single glance ♪
861
00:58:12,117 --> 00:58:15,578
♪ But it dies and it dies and it dies ♪
862
00:58:15,662 --> 00:58:20,333
♪ A million little times ♪
863
00:58:26,006 --> 00:58:29,342
♪ Leave the perfume on the shelf ♪
864
00:58:30,343 --> 00:58:33,346
♪ That you picked out just for him ♪
865
00:58:34,222 --> 00:58:37,600
♪ So you leave no trace behind ♪
866
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:41,312
♪ Like you don't even exist ♪
867
00:58:42,313 --> 00:58:45,316
♪ Take the words for what they are ♪
868
00:58:46,568 --> 00:58:49,779
♪ A dwindling, mercurial high ♪
869
00:58:50,530 --> 00:58:53,283
♪ A drug that only worked ♪
870
00:58:54,617 --> 00:58:56,786
♪ The first few hundred times ♪
871
00:58:56,870 --> 00:59:00,165
♪ And that's the thing
About illicit affairs ♪
872
00:59:00,248 --> 00:59:04,294
♪ And clandestine meetings
And stolen stares ♪
873
00:59:04,377 --> 00:59:07,881
♪ They show their truth one single time ♪
874
00:59:07,964 --> 00:59:11,634
♪ But they lie and they lie and they lie ♪
875
00:59:11,718 --> 00:59:16,097
♪ A million little times ♪
876
00:59:19,309 --> 00:59:20,727
♪ And you wanna scream ♪
877
00:59:20,810 --> 00:59:24,731
♪ Don't call me kid
Don't call me baby ♪
878
00:59:24,814 --> 00:59:28,693
♪ Look at this godforsaken mess
That you made me ♪
879
00:59:28,777 --> 00:59:34,491
♪ You showed me colors you know
I can't see with anyone else ♪
880
00:59:36,701 --> 00:59:40,747
♪ Don't call me kid
Don't call me baby ♪
881
00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:44,834
♪ Look at this idiotic fool
That you made me ♪
882
00:59:44,918 --> 00:59:50,507
♪ You taught me a secret language
I can't speak with anyone else ♪
883
00:59:52,092 --> 00:59:55,470
♪ And you know damn well ♪
884
00:59:55,553 --> 00:59:59,349
♪ For you I would ruin myself ♪
885
00:59:59,432 --> 01:00:03,770
♪ A million little times ♪
886
01:00:16,533 --> 01:00:18,118
[Swift] So, "invisible string."
887
01:00:18,201 --> 01:00:20,578
When I first heard
the track that you sent me,
888
01:00:20,662 --> 01:00:24,582
I thought, "I have to write something
that matches it,"
889
01:00:24,666 --> 01:00:27,961
and pretty quickly
I came upon the idea of fate.
890
01:00:28,044 --> 01:00:30,463
'Cause sometimes I just,
you know, go into a rabbit hole
891
01:00:30,547 --> 01:00:35,593
of thinking of how things happen,
and I kind of love the romantic idea
892
01:00:35,677 --> 01:00:37,345
that every step you're taking,
893
01:00:37,429 --> 01:00:41,808
you're taking one step closer
to where you're supposed to be.
894
01:00:41,891 --> 01:00:45,645
You know, guided by this little,
like, invisible string. [laughs]
895
01:00:45,729 --> 01:00:49,441
I remember when I bought this
little guitar that has a rubber ridge,
896
01:00:49,524 --> 01:00:51,651
which you have one now too,
but it has this like--
897
01:00:51,735 --> 01:00:53,987
Yeah. You got me one and sent it to me,
and it was, like--
898
01:00:54,070 --> 01:00:57,323
I couldn't believe opening up this,
like, beautiful--
899
01:00:57,407 --> 01:00:58,783
Is it a '50s guitar?
900
01:00:58,867 --> 01:01:00,952
-It is from the late '50s...
-Wow.
901
01:01:01,036 --> 01:01:03,121
...and it's been, like,
[stammers] renovated
902
01:01:03,204 --> 01:01:06,207
so that the bridge deadens the strings,
and it sounds really old.
903
01:01:06,291 --> 01:01:09,753
And it just really kind of
writes songs for you, in a way,
904
01:01:09,836 --> 01:01:11,379
-'cause it's so fun to play.
-Mm-hmm.
905
01:01:11,463 --> 01:01:13,631
And that was the first one
that I wrote with it,
906
01:01:13,715 --> 01:01:18,219
and then you wrote this incredible song
that is all about fate,
907
01:01:18,303 --> 01:01:22,515
and that was another moment where
I just felt there was this serendipity...
908
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:25,185
happening between us and crazy chemistry.
909
01:01:25,268 --> 01:01:29,189
As far as, like--
You took exactly what I had written,
910
01:01:29,272 --> 01:01:32,275
and it was as though we wrote it together
in a room, or something.
911
01:01:32,359 --> 01:01:36,946
I remembered I wrote it
right after I sent an ex a baby gift.
912
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:39,824
[laughs]
And I was just like, "Man, life is great."
913
01:01:39,908 --> 01:01:44,996
And I just remember thinking this
is a full signifier that life is great.
914
01:01:48,333 --> 01:01:50,335
♪ Green was the color of the grass ♪
915
01:01:50,418 --> 01:01:53,463
♪ Where I used to read
In Centennial Park ♪
916
01:01:53,963 --> 01:01:58,677
♪ I used to think
I would meet somebody there ♪
917
01:01:59,761 --> 01:02:04,599
♪ Teal was the color of your shirt
When you were 16 at the yogurt shop ♪
918
01:02:05,392 --> 01:02:08,853
♪ You used to work at
To make a little money ♪
919
01:02:11,147 --> 01:02:13,441
♪ Time
Curious time ♪
920
01:02:13,525 --> 01:02:16,528
♪ Gave me no compasses
Gave me no signs ♪
921
01:02:16,611 --> 01:02:20,657
♪ Were there clues I didn't see? ♪
922
01:02:23,410 --> 01:02:27,038
♪ And isn't it just so pretty to think ♪
923
01:02:27,122 --> 01:02:30,083
♪ All along there was some ♪
924
01:02:30,166 --> 01:02:32,836
♪ Invisible string ♪
925
01:02:33,545 --> 01:02:39,092
♪ Tying you to me ♪
926
01:02:40,010 --> 01:02:44,764
♪ Ooh ♪
927
01:02:45,807 --> 01:02:50,603
♪ Bad was the blood of the song in the cab
On your first trip to LA ♪
928
01:02:51,354 --> 01:02:55,608
♪ You ate at my favorite spot for dinner ♪
929
01:02:57,235 --> 01:02:59,779
♪ Bold was the waitress
On our three-year-trip ♪
930
01:02:59,863 --> 01:03:02,741
♪ Getting lunch down by the Lakes ♪
931
01:03:02,824 --> 01:03:06,536
♪ She said I looked like
An American singer ♪
932
01:03:08,788 --> 01:03:11,041
♪ Time
Mystical time ♪
933
01:03:11,124 --> 01:03:13,960
♪ Cutting me open, then healing me fine ♪
934
01:03:14,044 --> 01:03:19,215
♪ Were there clues I didn't see? ♪
935
01:03:20,675 --> 01:03:24,429
♪ And isn't it just so pretty to think ♪
936
01:03:24,512 --> 01:03:27,849
♪ All along there was some ♪
937
01:03:27,932 --> 01:03:30,143
♪ Invisible string ♪
938
01:03:31,019 --> 01:03:36,441
♪ Tying you to me ♪
939
01:03:37,525 --> 01:03:41,654
♪ Ooh ♪
940
01:03:41,738 --> 01:03:46,743
♪ String that pulled me
Out of all the wrong arms ♪
941
01:03:46,826 --> 01:03:49,412
♪ Right into that dive bar ♪
942
01:03:50,372 --> 01:03:55,377
♪ Something wrapped
All of my past mistakes in barbed wire ♪
943
01:03:56,086 --> 01:03:59,047
♪ Chains around my demons ♪
944
01:03:59,130 --> 01:04:02,676
♪ Wool to brave the seasons ♪
945
01:04:02,759 --> 01:04:06,429
♪ One single thread of gold
Tied me to you ♪
946
01:04:17,691 --> 01:04:23,405
♪ Cold was the steel of my ax to grind
For the boys who broke my heart ♪
947
01:04:23,488 --> 01:04:27,575
♪ Now I send their babies presents ♪
948
01:04:29,327 --> 01:04:34,916
♪ Gold was the color of the leaves
When I showed you around Centennial Park ♪
949
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,336
♪ Hell was the journey
But it brought me heaven ♪
950
01:04:40,714 --> 01:04:42,882
♪ Time
Wondrous time ♪
951
01:04:42,966 --> 01:04:46,052
♪ Gave me the blues
And then purple-pink skies ♪
952
01:04:46,136 --> 01:04:50,015
♪ And it's cool
Baby, with me ♪
953
01:04:53,101 --> 01:04:56,563
♪ And isn't it just so pretty to think ♪
954
01:04:56,646 --> 01:04:59,274
♪ All along there was some ♪
955
01:04:59,816 --> 01:05:01,901
♪ Invisible string ♪
956
01:05:02,986 --> 01:05:08,742
♪ Tying you to me ♪
957
01:05:09,492 --> 01:05:14,330
♪ Ooh ♪
958
01:05:15,290 --> 01:05:20,211
[vocalizing]
959
01:05:21,046 --> 01:05:26,051
♪ Ooh ♪
960
01:05:26,134 --> 01:05:29,179
♪ Oh ♪
961
01:05:29,262 --> 01:05:30,847
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
962
01:05:31,723 --> 01:05:35,060
♪ Ooh ♪
963
01:05:35,143 --> 01:05:36,811
♪ Oh, whoa ♪
964
01:05:55,872 --> 01:05:57,165
[Swift] "mad woman."
965
01:05:57,248 --> 01:06:00,335
The first time I heard
that piano thing you had written,
966
01:06:00,418 --> 01:06:04,464
I just felt like-- It's got these
sort of ominous strings underneath it.
967
01:06:04,547 --> 01:06:06,466
And I was like, "Oh, this is female rage."
968
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:09,010
Like, "This is a song about female rage.
It has to be."
969
01:06:09,094 --> 01:06:11,930
Like, "I have to figure out
how to make this about female rage."
970
01:06:13,098 --> 01:06:15,058
And then I was thinking...
971
01:06:15,684 --> 01:06:18,561
the most rage-provoking element
of being a female
972
01:06:18,645 --> 01:06:21,439
is the gaslighting that happens when,
973
01:06:22,232 --> 01:06:28,571
you know, for centuries we've been
expected to absorb male behavior silently.
974
01:06:28,655 --> 01:06:33,326
Right? Silent absorption
of whatever any guy decides to do.
975
01:06:33,410 --> 01:06:38,415
And, oftentimes when we,
in our enlightened state
976
01:06:38,498 --> 01:06:43,420
and our emboldened state, now,
respond to bad male behavior
977
01:06:43,503 --> 01:06:47,799
or somebody just doing something
that was absolutely out of line,
978
01:06:47,882 --> 01:06:49,259
and we respond,
979
01:06:49,342 --> 01:06:52,095
that response is treated
like the offense itself.
980
01:06:52,178 --> 01:06:53,179
Yeah.
981
01:06:53,263 --> 01:06:55,265
You know, there's been situations with--
982
01:06:55,348 --> 01:06:59,310
recently, with somebody
who's very guilty of this in my life,
983
01:06:59,394 --> 01:07:01,855
and it's a person who makes me feel,
984
01:07:01,938 --> 01:07:05,483
or tries to make me feel,
like I'm the offender
985
01:07:05,567 --> 01:07:08,611
by having any kind of defense
to his offenses.
986
01:07:08,695 --> 01:07:12,741
It's like, "Oh, I have absolutely no right
to respond or I'm crazy.
987
01:07:12,824 --> 01:07:15,410
I have no right to respond or I'm angry.
988
01:07:15,493 --> 01:07:18,288
I have no right to respond
or I'm out of line."
989
01:07:18,371 --> 01:07:21,875
So you were providing the musical bed
for me to make that point
990
01:07:21,958 --> 01:07:24,169
that I've been trying so hard
to figure out.
991
01:07:24,252 --> 01:07:27,589
How do I say that--
How do I say why this feels so bad?
992
01:07:33,345 --> 01:07:36,389
♪ What did you think I'd say to that? ♪
993
01:07:36,473 --> 01:07:39,768
♪ Does a scorpion sting
When fighting back? ♪
994
01:07:39,851 --> 01:07:44,105
♪ They strike to kill
And you know I will ♪
995
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:49,361
♪ You know I will ♪
996
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:56,951
♪ What do you sing on your drive home? ♪
997
01:07:57,035 --> 01:07:59,954
♪ Do you see my face
In the neighbor's lawn? ♪
998
01:08:00,038 --> 01:08:02,082
♪ Does she smile ♪
999
01:08:02,165 --> 01:08:06,127
♪ Or does she mouth "**** you forever"? ♪
1000
01:08:07,128 --> 01:08:11,424
♪ Every time you call me crazy
I get more crazy ♪
1001
01:08:11,508 --> 01:08:13,009
♪ What about that? ♪
1002
01:08:14,260 --> 01:08:19,099
♪ And when you say I seem angry
I get more angry ♪
1003
01:08:19,182 --> 01:08:22,769
♪ And there's nothing like a mad woman ♪
1004
01:08:22,852 --> 01:08:25,355
♪ What a shame she went mad ♪
1005
01:08:26,564 --> 01:08:29,275
♪ No one likes a mad woman ♪
1006
01:08:29,901 --> 01:08:32,195
♪ You made her like that ♪
1007
01:08:33,113 --> 01:08:36,491
♪ And you'll poke that bear
Till her claws come out ♪
1008
01:08:36,574 --> 01:08:40,704
♪ And you find something
To wrap your noose around ♪
1009
01:08:41,496 --> 01:08:47,293
♪ And there's nothing like a mad woman ♪
1010
01:09:01,224 --> 01:09:04,561
♪ Now I breathe flames each time I talk ♪
1011
01:09:04,644 --> 01:09:07,731
♪ My cannons all firin' at your yacht ♪
1012
01:09:07,814 --> 01:09:12,193
♪ They say, "Move on"
But you know I won't ♪
1013
01:09:14,654 --> 01:09:17,949
♪ And women like hunting witches too ♪
1014
01:09:18,033 --> 01:09:21,369
♪ Doing your dirtiest work for you ♪
1015
01:09:21,453 --> 01:09:28,126
♪ It's obvious that wanting me dead
Has really brought you two together ♪
1016
01:09:28,209 --> 01:09:32,547
♪ Every time you call me crazy
I get more crazy ♪
1017
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:34,341
♪ What about that? ♪
1018
01:09:35,342 --> 01:09:40,055
♪ And when you say I seem angry
I get more angry ♪
1019
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,933
♪ And there's nothing like a mad woman ♪
1020
01:09:44,017 --> 01:09:46,770
♪ What a shame she went mad ♪
1021
01:09:47,645 --> 01:09:50,857
♪ No one likes a mad woman ♪
1022
01:09:50,940 --> 01:09:53,026
♪ You made her like that ♪
1023
01:09:54,152 --> 01:09:57,489
♪ And you'll poke that bear
Till her claws come out ♪
1024
01:09:57,572 --> 01:10:01,868
♪ And you find something
To wrap your noose around ♪
1025
01:10:02,619 --> 01:10:08,583
♪ And there's nothing like a mad woman ♪
1026
01:10:09,459 --> 01:10:12,921
♪ I'm taking my time
Taking my time ♪
1027
01:10:13,004 --> 01:10:16,341
♪ Cause you took everything from me ♪
1028
01:10:16,424 --> 01:10:19,803
♪ Watching you climb
Watching you climb ♪
1029
01:10:19,886 --> 01:10:22,389
♪ Over people like me ♪
1030
01:10:23,056 --> 01:10:26,393
♪ The master of spin
Has a couple side flings ♪
1031
01:10:26,476 --> 01:10:29,312
♪ Good wives always know ♪
1032
01:10:29,979 --> 01:10:33,024
♪ She should be mad
Should be scathing like me ♪
1033
01:10:33,108 --> 01:10:38,947
♪ But no one likes a mad woman ♪
1034
01:10:39,823 --> 01:10:42,409
♪ What a shame she went mad ♪
1035
01:10:46,788 --> 01:10:49,249
♪ You made her like that ♪
1036
01:11:17,861 --> 01:11:21,197
I think I really felt like there should be
a string moment on the album
1037
01:11:21,281 --> 01:11:25,493
because we were towards the end of it,
and it was all very piano and acoustic.
1038
01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:28,538
And you're so good
with string arrangements,
1039
01:11:28,621 --> 01:11:32,459
and, you know, Bryce is--
I mean, a genius.
1040
01:11:32,542 --> 01:11:36,671
And I kinda felt like
there should be a moment where
1041
01:11:36,755 --> 01:11:40,216
there's a song
that was unlike anything I'd done before
1042
01:11:40,300 --> 01:11:44,637
and could really exercise that muscle
that I know that you have.
1043
01:11:44,721 --> 01:11:47,766
And I couldn't-- When I heard it,
I remember thinking,
1044
01:11:47,849 --> 01:11:50,560
"Maybe I wanna tell a sports story."
[chuckles]
1045
01:11:50,643 --> 01:11:55,315
'Cause I had just watched
The Last Dance, and I was...
1046
01:11:55,398 --> 01:11:57,567
and I was thinking all in terms of sports
1047
01:11:57,650 --> 01:12:01,237
and winners and underdogs
and things like that, but actually,
1048
01:12:01,321 --> 01:12:05,617
what I had been doing really frequently
1049
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:09,120
up until that point was I had been doing
a lot of research on my grandfather
1050
01:12:09,204 --> 01:12:12,207
who fought in World War II at Guadalcanal.
1051
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:16,878
Which was an extremely bloody battle,
1052
01:12:16,961 --> 01:12:20,340
and, you know, he never talked about it.
1053
01:12:20,423 --> 01:12:24,260
Not with his sons, not with his wife.
1054
01:12:24,344 --> 01:12:26,388
Nobody got to hear
about what happened there.
1055
01:12:26,471 --> 01:12:29,057
And so, my dad had to do
a lot of research,
1056
01:12:29,140 --> 01:12:32,310
and he and his brothers
did a lot of digging
1057
01:12:32,394 --> 01:12:36,356
and found out that my granddad was exposed
1058
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,441
-to some of the worst situations...
-Fighting, yeah.
1059
01:12:38,525 --> 01:12:40,652
...you could ever imagine
as a human being.
1060
01:12:40,735 --> 01:12:44,698
And so, I kind of tried to imagine
what would happen
1061
01:12:44,781 --> 01:12:47,450
in order to make you just never
be able to speak about something.
1062
01:12:47,534 --> 01:12:50,954
When I was thinking about that,
I realized that...
1063
01:12:51,037 --> 01:12:55,500
that there are people, right now,
you know,
1064
01:12:55,583 --> 01:13:00,213
taking a twenty-minute break
in between shifts at a hospital,
1065
01:13:00,296 --> 01:13:03,466
who are having this kind
of trauma happen to them right now,
1066
01:13:03,550 --> 01:13:05,844
that they will probably
never want to speak about.
1067
01:13:06,511 --> 01:13:07,512
You know?
1068
01:13:07,595 --> 01:13:09,889
And so, I just kind of thought, like,
1069
01:13:09,973 --> 01:13:14,394
this is an opportunity
to maybe tell that story.
1070
01:13:15,645 --> 01:13:17,897
The way you weave that together,
1071
01:13:17,981 --> 01:13:19,482
where there's remembrance
1072
01:13:19,566 --> 01:13:22,152
and bearing witness
to your family's history,
1073
01:13:22,235 --> 01:13:26,197
but then recognition
of who the heroes are today.
1074
01:13:26,281 --> 01:13:28,158
It's so moving. And I tried--
1075
01:13:28,241 --> 01:13:31,286
The sense of harmony in that song
is really different than other songs.
1076
01:13:31,369 --> 01:13:34,080
And again, it was as though
we did it in the same room
1077
01:13:34,164 --> 01:13:36,041
-and worked out the chords and everything.
-Yeah.
1078
01:13:36,124 --> 01:13:39,586
And how you sing to it
feels different than any other song.
1079
01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:43,381
It was another moment where it just felt
like I was just thankful to be a musician.
1080
01:13:43,465 --> 01:13:45,967
Or like, "This is why I play music."
You know, something like--
1081
01:13:46,051 --> 01:13:47,802
Yeah, I felt that way with this song too,
1082
01:13:47,886 --> 01:13:51,431
where it was just like, "How did this
slot into place and come together?"
1083
01:13:51,514 --> 01:13:53,516
I often feel with this album,
1084
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:58,063
there have been times in my life where
things have fallen apart so methodically,
1085
01:13:58,146 --> 01:14:01,149
um, and I couldn't control
how things were going wrong,
1086
01:14:01,232 --> 01:14:02,984
and nothing I did stopped it.
1087
01:14:03,068 --> 01:14:05,362
And I felt like I'd just just been
pushed out of a plane
1088
01:14:05,445 --> 01:14:07,822
and was, like,
scratching at the air on the way down,
1089
01:14:07,906 --> 01:14:10,617
and I felt like the universe
is just doing its thing.
1090
01:14:10,700 --> 01:14:15,288
It's just dismantling my life,
and there's nothing I can do.
1091
01:14:15,372 --> 01:14:18,541
And this is a weird situation where ever
since I started making music with you,
1092
01:14:18,625 --> 01:14:24,756
I felt like that was the universe forcing
things to fall into place perfectly,
1093
01:14:24,839 --> 01:14:26,591
-and there was nothing I could do.
-Yeah.
1094
01:14:26,675 --> 01:14:30,387
It's one of those weird things
that makes you think about life a lot,
1095
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:35,392
where this lockdown could've been a time
where I absolutely lost my mind,
1096
01:14:35,475 --> 01:14:40,021
and instead I think this album was
a real floatation device for both of us.
1097
01:14:50,573 --> 01:14:55,578
♪ Keep your helmet ♪
1098
01:14:55,662 --> 01:15:00,208
♪ Keep your life, son ♪
1099
01:15:00,875 --> 01:15:05,880
♪ Just a flesh wound ♪
1100
01:15:05,964 --> 01:15:11,094
♪ Here's your rifle ♪
1101
01:15:13,638 --> 01:15:16,641
♪ Crawling off the beaches now ♪
1102
01:15:18,685 --> 01:15:21,646
♪ Sir, I think he's bleedin' out ♪
1103
01:15:23,565 --> 01:15:28,153
♪ And some things
You just can't speak about ♪
1104
01:15:31,573 --> 01:15:33,533
♪ With you I serve ♪
1105
01:15:33,616 --> 01:15:36,911
♪ With you I fall down ♪
1106
01:15:37,871 --> 01:15:39,831
♪ Down ♪
1107
01:15:41,708 --> 01:15:43,543
♪ Watch you breathe in ♪
1108
01:15:43,626 --> 01:15:47,088
♪ Watch you breathin' out ♪
1109
01:15:48,089 --> 01:15:49,924
♪ Out ♪
1110
01:15:52,093 --> 01:15:56,931
♪ Something med school ♪
1111
01:15:57,015 --> 01:16:01,686
♪ Did not cover ♪
1112
01:16:01,770 --> 01:16:06,524
♪ Someone's daughter ♪
1113
01:16:07,275 --> 01:16:12,489
♪ Someone's mother
Oh ♪
1114
01:16:15,158 --> 01:16:18,119
♪ Holds your hand through plastic now ♪
1115
01:16:20,038 --> 01:16:23,208
♪ Doc, I think she's crashing out ♪
1116
01:16:24,876 --> 01:16:29,839
♪ And some things
You just can't speak about ♪
1117
01:16:53,154 --> 01:16:56,408
♪ Only 20 minutes to sleep ♪
1118
01:16:56,491 --> 01:17:02,080
♪ But you dream of some epiphany ♪
1119
01:17:02,997 --> 01:17:06,543
♪ Just one single glimpse of relief ♪
1120
01:17:06,626 --> 01:17:12,507
♪ To make some sense of what you've seen ♪
1121
01:17:13,591 --> 01:17:15,552
♪ With you, I serve ♪
1122
01:17:15,635 --> 01:17:19,222
♪ With you, I fall down ♪
1123
01:17:20,015 --> 01:17:21,933
♪ Down ♪
1124
01:17:23,768 --> 01:17:25,854
♪ Watch you breathe in ♪
1125
01:17:25,937 --> 01:17:29,607
♪ Watch you breathing out ♪
1126
01:17:30,191 --> 01:17:32,360
♪ Out ♪
1127
01:17:34,029 --> 01:17:36,197
♪ With you, I serve ♪
1128
01:17:36,281 --> 01:17:39,534
♪ With you, I fall down ♪
1129
01:17:40,326 --> 01:17:43,246
♪ Down ♪
1130
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,166
♪ Watch you breathe in ♪
1131
01:17:46,249 --> 01:17:49,919
♪ Watch you breathing out ♪
1132
01:17:50,754 --> 01:17:53,173
♪ Out ♪
1133
01:17:54,549 --> 01:17:57,594
♪ Only 20 minutes to sleep ♪
1134
01:17:57,677 --> 01:18:03,308
♪ But you dream of some epiphany ♪
1135
01:18:04,684 --> 01:18:07,729
♪ Just one single glimpse of relief ♪
1136
01:18:07,812 --> 01:18:10,648
♪ To make some sense of what you've seen ♪
1137
01:18:10,732 --> 01:18:14,235
♪ Make sense of what you've seen ♪
1138
01:18:53,983 --> 01:18:56,486
One of my favorite things
about this record is the fact that
1139
01:18:56,569 --> 01:18:58,363
there's this trilogy of three.
1140
01:18:58,446 --> 01:19:03,910
The trinity of "betty," "august"
and "cardigan" are all, like...
1141
01:19:04,911 --> 01:19:07,831
We made "august" together.
We made "cardigan" together.
1142
01:19:07,914 --> 01:19:10,792
-We all three made "betty" together.
-[Antonoff] It's perfect.
1143
01:19:10,875 --> 01:19:13,545
And "betty" was-- I just heard Joe singing
1144
01:19:13,628 --> 01:19:17,924
the entire fully formed chorus of "betty"
from another room.
1145
01:19:18,008 --> 01:19:19,009
[Antonoff] Yeah.
1146
01:19:19,092 --> 01:19:21,720
And I just was like, "Hello."
1147
01:19:21,803 --> 01:19:23,346
You're like, "I do this professionally."
1148
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:25,223
-Hello.
-"I'd love to have a conversation."
1149
01:19:25,306 --> 01:19:27,726
It was a step that
we would never have taken
1150
01:19:27,809 --> 01:19:31,146
because why would we have
ever written a song together?
1151
01:19:31,229 --> 01:19:34,149
I thought you were doing a bit when
you were like, "Joe and I wrote a song."
1152
01:19:34,232 --> 01:19:36,276
Then I was like, "What?"
I thought it was gonna be, like,
1153
01:19:36,359 --> 01:19:39,696
you know, people write cute songs
about their animals, in relationships.
1154
01:19:39,779 --> 01:19:41,698
And then you're like,
"No, no, we wrote a real song"
1155
01:19:41,781 --> 01:19:44,159
and I was like, "What?"
Then you sent it to me, I was like...
1156
01:19:44,242 --> 01:19:46,453
So this was the first time
we had a conversation,
1157
01:19:46,536 --> 01:19:48,872
where I came in and I was like, "Hey,
1158
01:19:49,706 --> 01:19:53,209
this could be really weird,
and we could hate this,
1159
01:19:53,293 --> 01:19:58,590
so because we're in quarantine
and there's nothing else going on,
1160
01:19:58,673 --> 01:20:01,551
could we just try to see what it's like
if we write this song together?"
1161
01:20:01,634 --> 01:20:05,430
So, he was singing the chorus of it,
and I thought it sounded really good
1162
01:20:05,513 --> 01:20:08,933
from a man's voice,
from a masculine perspective.
1163
01:20:09,017 --> 01:20:12,020
And I really liked that
it seems to be an apology.
1164
01:20:12,103 --> 01:20:14,981
And I've written so many songs
from a female's perspective
1165
01:20:15,065 --> 01:20:17,692
of wanting a male apology
1166
01:20:17,776 --> 01:20:21,196
that we decided to make it
from a teenage boy's perspective
1167
01:20:21,279 --> 01:20:23,656
apologizing after he loses
the love of his life
1168
01:20:23,740 --> 01:20:25,992
because he's been foolish.
1169
01:20:26,076 --> 01:20:27,160
Allegedly.
1170
01:20:28,078 --> 01:20:29,079
No, he's been foolish.
1171
01:20:29,162 --> 01:20:31,164
No, according to the Internet,
we don't know what it's about.
1172
01:20:31,247 --> 01:20:32,582
-He's been foolish.
-No, I mean--
1173
01:20:32,665 --> 01:20:35,126
We wrote it. I'm confirming.
He's been foolish. He was a fool.
1174
01:20:35,210 --> 01:20:37,170
I don't know who William Bowery is,
so yeah, okay.
1175
01:20:47,013 --> 01:20:51,976
♪ Betty, I won't make assumptions
About why you switched your homeroom ♪
1176
01:20:52,060 --> 01:20:54,187
♪ But I think it's 'cause of me ♪
1177
01:20:56,898 --> 01:21:00,735
♪ Betty, one time I was riding
On my skateboard ♪
1178
01:21:00,819 --> 01:21:02,487
♪ When I passed your house ♪
1179
01:21:02,570 --> 01:21:04,322
♪ It's like I couldn't breathe ♪
1180
01:21:06,574 --> 01:21:09,119
♪ You heard the rumors from Inez ♪
1181
01:21:09,202 --> 01:21:12,455
♪ You can't believe a word she says
Most times ♪
1182
01:21:12,539 --> 01:21:14,416
♪ But this time it was true ♪
1183
01:21:15,583 --> 01:21:20,797
♪ The worst thing that I ever did ♪
1184
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:25,301
♪ Was what I did to you ♪
1185
01:21:27,762 --> 01:21:30,598
♪ But if I just showed up at your party ♪
1186
01:21:30,682 --> 01:21:33,184
♪ Would you have me?
Would you want me? ♪
1187
01:21:33,268 --> 01:21:38,106
♪ Would you tell me to go **** myself
Or lead me to the garden? ♪
1188
01:21:38,189 --> 01:21:40,692
♪ In the garden, would you trust me ♪
1189
01:21:40,775 --> 01:21:44,195
♪ If I told you
It was just a summer thing? ♪
1190
01:21:44,279 --> 01:21:47,782
♪ I'm only 17
I don't know anything ♪
1191
01:21:47,866 --> 01:21:51,411
♪ But I know I miss you ♪
1192
01:21:59,419 --> 01:22:02,172
♪ Betty, I know where it all went wrong ♪
1193
01:22:02,255 --> 01:22:07,052
♪ Your favorite song was playing
From the far side of the gym ♪
1194
01:22:09,387 --> 01:22:11,723
♪ I was nowhere to be found ♪
1195
01:22:11,806 --> 01:22:14,309
♪ I hate the crowds
You know that ♪
1196
01:22:14,392 --> 01:22:16,895
♪ Plus, I saw you dance with him ♪
1197
01:22:19,105 --> 01:22:21,649
♪ You heard the rumors from Inez ♪
1198
01:22:21,733 --> 01:22:24,944
♪ You can't believe a word she says
Most times ♪
1199
01:22:25,028 --> 01:22:26,654
♪ But this time it was true ♪
1200
01:22:28,490 --> 01:22:33,328
♪ The worst thing that I ever did ♪
1201
01:22:33,411 --> 01:22:37,916
♪ Was what I did to you ♪
1202
01:22:40,335 --> 01:22:43,129
♪ But if I just showed up at your party ♪
1203
01:22:43,213 --> 01:22:45,757
♪ Would you have me?
Would you want me? ♪
1204
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,637
♪ Would you tell me to go **** myself
Or lead me to the garden? ♪
1205
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,264
♪ In the garden, would you trust me ♪
1206
01:22:53,348 --> 01:22:56,726
♪ If I told you
It was just a summer thing? ♪
1207
01:22:56,810 --> 01:23:00,271
♪ I'm only 17
I don't know anything ♪
1208
01:23:00,355 --> 01:23:04,693
♪ But I know I miss you ♪
1209
01:23:11,866 --> 01:23:15,370
♪ I was walking home
On broken cobblestones ♪
1210
01:23:15,453 --> 01:23:17,038
♪ Just thinking of you ♪
1211
01:23:17,122 --> 01:23:21,292
♪ When she pulled up
Like a figment of my worst intentions ♪
1212
01:23:21,376 --> 01:23:24,421
♪ She said, "James, get in, let's drive" ♪
1213
01:23:24,504 --> 01:23:26,756
♪ Those days turned into nights ♪
1214
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:32,178
♪ Slept next to her
But I dreamt of you all summer long ♪
1215
01:23:49,487 --> 01:23:51,990
♪ Betty, I'm here on your doorstep ♪
1216
01:23:52,073 --> 01:23:56,745
♪ And I planned it out for weeks now
But it's finally sinking in ♪
1217
01:23:58,955 --> 01:24:01,958
♪ Betty, right now is the last time ♪
1218
01:24:02,042 --> 01:24:07,005
♪ I can dream about what happens
When you see my face again ♪
1219
01:24:08,465 --> 01:24:13,053
♪ The only thing I wanna do ♪
1220
01:24:13,136 --> 01:24:17,390
♪ Is make it up to you ♪
1221
01:24:20,602 --> 01:24:24,230
♪ So, I showed up at your party ♪
1222
01:24:30,653 --> 01:24:34,366
♪ Yeah, I showed up at your party ♪
1223
01:24:40,455 --> 01:24:43,166
♪ Yeah, I showed up at your party ♪
1224
01:24:43,249 --> 01:24:45,585
♪ Will you have me?
Will you love me? ♪
1225
01:24:45,669 --> 01:24:50,632
♪ Will you kiss me on the porch
In front of all your stupid friends? ♪
1226
01:24:50,715 --> 01:24:54,636
♪ If you kiss me
Will it be just like I dreamed it? ♪
1227
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:56,763
♪ Will it patch your broken wings? ♪
1228
01:24:56,846 --> 01:25:00,266
♪ I'm only 17
I don't know anything ♪
1229
01:25:00,350 --> 01:25:03,144
♪ But I know I miss you ♪
1230
01:25:05,188 --> 01:25:08,274
♪ Standing in your cardigan ♪
1231
01:25:10,151 --> 01:25:13,113
♪ Kissing in my car again ♪
1232
01:25:14,114 --> 01:25:15,532
♪ Stopped at a streetlight ♪
1233
01:25:15,615 --> 01:25:19,494
♪ You know I miss you ♪
1234
01:25:28,712 --> 01:25:33,049
With the song "peace,"
uh, when you sent me this instrumental,
1235
01:25:33,133 --> 01:25:35,552
the first word that I thought of
1236
01:25:35,635 --> 01:25:37,554
was this is what peace sounds like.
1237
01:25:37,637 --> 01:25:41,349
It's got this, you know,
this amazing bass line
1238
01:25:41,433 --> 01:25:44,561
that just made me feel like,
"This is serenity. This is peace."
1239
01:25:44,644 --> 01:25:48,606
And then I was thinking,
maybe you just start with the obvious
1240
01:25:48,690 --> 01:25:52,777
and think about how that could be told
in an interesting way
1241
01:25:52,861 --> 01:25:55,697
that kind of goes against the title.
1242
01:25:55,780 --> 01:25:58,491
Like, "I could never give you peace,"
1243
01:25:58,575 --> 01:26:02,412
over the most peaceful sounding
instrumental track.
1244
01:26:02,495 --> 01:26:04,622
Yeah. That's why I sent it to you
'cause you kinda said,
1245
01:26:04,706 --> 01:26:08,668
"Send me everything, including
the most off-the-wall idea you have,"
1246
01:26:08,752 --> 01:26:13,715
um, and then you were able
to write a song,
1247
01:26:13,798 --> 01:26:17,927
which, not only does it, like,
have such a beautiful--
1248
01:26:18,011 --> 01:26:24,434
It's just such a beautiful love song
in recognition of the kind of, like, uh...
1249
01:26:24,517 --> 01:26:28,605
insecurity in any relationship
that, like, "Will this actually...
1250
01:26:28,688 --> 01:26:31,858
Will I be able to give you peace?
Will you be at rest with me,
1251
01:26:31,941 --> 01:26:35,028
even though, you know, whatever comes?"
1252
01:26:35,111 --> 01:26:37,197
-Yeah.
-Um, but you also trace the bridge.
1253
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:39,074
When I heard the bridge,
1254
01:26:39,157 --> 01:26:43,161
and that you traced all the weird timing
and weird chord changes,
1255
01:26:43,244 --> 01:26:45,413
it just felt like,
"Okay, we can do anything.
1256
01:26:45,497 --> 01:26:48,124
We might be able to do anything,"
or something. You know, this is a--
1257
01:26:48,208 --> 01:26:52,545
Like, it pushed the collaboration forward
at that moment.
1258
01:26:52,629 --> 01:26:56,091
Where I was like, "Okay, so this
is a weird race. Let's just--" [whooshes]
1259
01:26:56,174 --> 01:27:00,136
Yeah. I think this is a song
that's extremely personal to me
1260
01:27:00,220 --> 01:27:04,182
because there are times when I feel like,
1261
01:27:04,265 --> 01:27:06,351
with everything that's in my control,
1262
01:27:06,434 --> 01:27:12,857
I can make myself seem like someone
who doesn't have an abnormal life.
1263
01:27:12,941 --> 01:27:14,567
And I try that every day.
1264
01:27:14,651 --> 01:27:17,070
Every day it's like,
"How do I make myself,
1265
01:27:17,153 --> 01:27:19,781
among my friends and family
and my loved ones,
1266
01:27:19,864 --> 01:27:23,952
not see this big elephant
that's in the room for a normal life?"
1267
01:27:24,035 --> 01:27:26,079
Because I don't want
the elephant in the room.
1268
01:27:26,162 --> 01:27:27,372
-Yeah.
-You know?
1269
01:27:27,455 --> 01:27:30,208
If you're gonna be in my life,
I feel like there's a certain amount
1270
01:27:30,291 --> 01:27:33,003
that comes with it
that I can't stop from happening.
1271
01:27:33,086 --> 01:27:37,090
I can't stop from you getting a call
in the morning that says, you know,
1272
01:27:37,173 --> 01:27:40,135
the tabloids are writing this today.
1273
01:27:40,218 --> 01:27:45,056
I can't help it if there's a guy
with a long lens camera
1274
01:27:45,140 --> 01:27:49,310
two miles away with a telescope lens
taking pictures of you.
1275
01:27:49,394 --> 01:27:51,813
I can't stop those things from happening.
1276
01:27:51,896 --> 01:27:55,859
And so, this song was basically,
like, is it enough?
1277
01:27:55,942 --> 01:28:00,572
Is the stuff that I can control enough
1278
01:28:00,655 --> 01:28:05,160
to sort of block out
the things that I can't?
1279
01:28:05,243 --> 01:28:06,578
-Yeah.
-Um...
1280
01:28:06,661 --> 01:28:10,331
So, it makes me really, like,
really emotional to hear this song
1281
01:28:10,415 --> 01:28:13,460
and to know
that a lot of people related to it
1282
01:28:13,543 --> 01:28:17,130
who aren't talking about the same things
that I'm talking about.
1283
01:28:17,213 --> 01:28:20,383
They're talking about human complexity.
1284
01:28:20,467 --> 01:28:24,346
Yeah. I love that about the record
in general and this song specifically.
1285
01:28:24,429 --> 01:28:26,473
'Cause to me, it's about--
1286
01:28:26,556 --> 01:28:29,726
I have, in my life,
suffered from depression,
1287
01:28:29,809 --> 01:28:32,354
and I'm a hard person
to be in a relationship with
1288
01:28:32,437 --> 01:28:35,440
or be married to because I go up and down.
1289
01:28:35,523 --> 01:28:39,110
And I can't help it. It's a chemical thing
that happens sometimes.
1290
01:28:39,194 --> 01:28:42,280
And music is a way
of dealing with that for me.
1291
01:28:42,364 --> 01:28:48,870
Um, and just somehow the song captures
the fragility of what that's like
1292
01:28:48,953 --> 01:28:52,165
to be in a relationship with someone
who may or may not have peace
1293
01:28:52,248 --> 01:28:54,125
or may--
But that's, again, my interpretation.
1294
01:28:54,209 --> 01:28:56,127
And someone who
you would wanna provide with peace.
1295
01:28:56,211 --> 01:28:57,796
-Yeah.
-You know, someone that you love,
1296
01:28:57,879 --> 01:29:01,508
so you want them to have
as much peace in their life as possible
1297
01:29:01,591 --> 01:29:06,179
and reconciling the fact that you might
not be their best option for that,
1298
01:29:06,262 --> 01:29:08,682
-but is it still a deal they wanna take?
-Yeah.
1299
01:29:27,784 --> 01:29:31,037
♪ Our coming-of-age has come and gone ♪
1300
01:29:31,121 --> 01:29:34,124
♪ Suddenly this summer it's clear ♪
1301
01:29:34,207 --> 01:29:37,293
♪ I never had the courage
Of my convictions ♪
1302
01:29:37,877 --> 01:29:40,672
♪ As long as danger is near ♪
1303
01:29:40,755 --> 01:29:44,300
♪ And it's just around the corner
Darling ♪
1304
01:29:44,384 --> 01:29:46,094
♪ 'Cause it lives in me ♪
1305
01:29:47,345 --> 01:29:50,849
♪ No, I could never give you peace ♪
1306
01:29:59,315 --> 01:30:02,694
♪ But I'm a fire
And I'll keep your brittle heart warm ♪
1307
01:30:02,777 --> 01:30:05,905
♪ If your cascade ocean wave blues come ♪
1308
01:30:05,989 --> 01:30:08,033
♪ All these people think love's for show ♪
1309
01:30:08,116 --> 01:30:10,952
♪ But I would die for you in secret ♪
1310
01:30:11,036 --> 01:30:16,458
♪ The devil's in the details
But you got a friend in me ♪
1311
01:30:17,917 --> 01:30:22,797
♪ Would it be enough
If I could never give you peace? ♪
1312
01:30:25,216 --> 01:30:28,053
♪ Your integrity makes me seem small ♪
1313
01:30:28,845 --> 01:30:31,473
♪ You paint dreamscapes on the wall ♪
1314
01:30:32,182 --> 01:30:34,559
♪ I talk shit with my friends ♪
1315
01:30:34,642 --> 01:30:39,022
♪ It's like I'm wasting your honor ♪
1316
01:30:47,614 --> 01:30:50,825
♪ And you know that I'd ♪
1317
01:30:52,202 --> 01:30:55,163
♪ Swing with you for the fences ♪
1318
01:30:55,246 --> 01:30:58,458
♪ Sit with you in the trenches ♪
1319
01:30:59,125 --> 01:31:00,794
♪ Give you my wild ♪
1320
01:31:00,877 --> 01:31:03,463
♪ Give you a child ♪
1321
01:31:03,546 --> 01:31:07,258
♪ Give you the silence that only comes
When two people understand each other ♪
1322
01:31:07,342 --> 01:31:11,971
♪ Family that I chose now that
I see your brother as my brother ♪
1323
01:31:12,055 --> 01:31:14,766
♪ Is it enough? ♪
1324
01:31:16,351 --> 01:31:19,896
♪ Cause there's robbers to the east
Clowns to the west ♪
1325
01:31:19,979 --> 01:31:22,941
♪ I'd give you my sunshine
Give you my best ♪
1326
01:31:23,024 --> 01:31:28,488
♪ But the rain is always gonna come
If you're standing with me ♪
1327
01:31:33,243 --> 01:31:36,579
♪ But I'm a fire
And I'll keep your brittle heart warm ♪
1328
01:31:36,663 --> 01:31:39,499
♪ If your cascade ocean wave blues come ♪
1329
01:31:39,582 --> 01:31:41,835
♪ All these people think love's for show ♪
1330
01:31:41,918 --> 01:31:44,796
♪ But I would die for you in secret ♪
1331
01:31:44,879 --> 01:31:50,468
♪ The devil's in the details
But you got a friend in me ♪
1332
01:31:51,928 --> 01:31:57,308
♪ Would it be enough
If I could never give you peace? ♪
1333
01:31:58,727 --> 01:32:04,899
♪ Would it be enough
If I could never give you peace? ♪
1334
01:32:04,983 --> 01:32:10,321
♪ Would it be enough
If I could never give you peace? ♪
1335
01:32:27,547 --> 01:32:29,758
Okay, the word hoax
is another word that I love
1336
01:32:29,841 --> 01:32:32,844
'cause I love that it has an "x,"
and I love the way that it looks,
1337
01:32:32,927 --> 01:32:34,304
and I love the way it sounds.
1338
01:32:34,387 --> 01:32:37,140
I think with this song being
the last song on the album,
1339
01:32:37,223 --> 01:32:42,395
it kind of embodied all the things
that this album was thematically.
1340
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:47,233
Like confessions, um,
incorporating nature,
1341
01:32:47,317 --> 01:32:50,612
emotional volatility
and ambiguity at the same time,
1342
01:32:50,695 --> 01:32:54,199
sort of love that isn't just easy.
1343
01:32:54,282 --> 01:32:58,620
And it's the most symbolic, poetic thing
1344
01:32:58,703 --> 01:33:02,040
listing all these things
that this person is to you.
1345
01:33:02,123 --> 01:33:04,292
And I remember I asked you
for advice on this one.
1346
01:33:04,376 --> 01:33:06,086
You did. I think you didn't-- I think...
1347
01:33:06,169 --> 01:33:08,338
Like, to you it meant different things,
1348
01:33:08,421 --> 01:33:10,799
and that was a moment
of, like, doubt or something.
1349
01:33:10,882 --> 01:33:12,926
And I said-- I think I said,
1350
01:33:13,009 --> 01:33:17,097
"What if not all of these feelings
are about the same person?
1351
01:33:17,180 --> 01:33:22,102
What if I'm writing about several
different, very fractured situations?"
1352
01:33:22,185 --> 01:33:24,104
Like, one is about love,
1353
01:33:24,187 --> 01:33:28,149
and one is about a business thing
that really hurt,
1354
01:33:28,233 --> 01:33:31,736
and one is about a sort of relationship
that I consider to be family,
1355
01:33:31,820 --> 01:33:33,488
but that really hurt.
1356
01:33:33,571 --> 01:33:34,614
Yeah, and I remember--
1357
01:33:34,698 --> 01:33:36,408
-This is one of the moments--
-You referenced Matt.
1358
01:33:36,491 --> 01:33:39,035
Yeah. When Matt, you know,
The National and Matt Berninger--
1359
01:33:39,119 --> 01:33:44,457
Often songs are about more than one thing
or many sides of a coin.
1360
01:33:44,541 --> 01:33:46,876
And I just love that,
and I kind of thought,
1361
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:49,796
"This is-- This feels different,
and it also feels--"
1362
01:33:49,879 --> 01:33:53,299
Um, I kinda like the fact
that you weren't totally sure.
1363
01:33:53,383 --> 01:33:54,843
I definitely had the moment of doubt.
1364
01:33:54,926 --> 01:33:56,970
I had the moment of like,
"I don't usually do this.
1365
01:33:57,053 --> 01:33:59,597
I usually know exactly
what I'm writing about."
1366
01:33:59,681 --> 01:34:03,768
Um, and I was really happy when
you kinda pushed me forward like,
1367
01:34:04,477 --> 01:34:06,396
"Nope, do the thing
that makes you uncomfortable."
1368
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,399
Because I think that's what makes it
a song that really, to me, stands out.
1369
01:34:09,482 --> 01:34:12,944
That line about, "you know it still hurts
underneath my scars
1370
01:34:13,028 --> 01:34:15,655
from when they pulled me apart."
Anyone in my life knows
1371
01:34:15,739 --> 01:34:18,867
-what I'm singing about there, but it--
-"But what you did was just as dark."
1372
01:34:18,950 --> 01:34:21,119
Everybody has that situation in their life
1373
01:34:21,202 --> 01:34:23,747
where it's, like, you let someone in
and they get to know you,
1374
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:26,374
and they know exactly what buttons
to push to hurt you the most.
1375
01:34:26,458 --> 01:34:27,459
Yeah.
1376
01:34:27,542 --> 01:34:30,795
That thing where the scar healed over,
but it's still painful.
1377
01:34:30,879 --> 01:34:32,422
They still have phantom pain.
1378
01:34:32,505 --> 01:34:33,506
Yeah.
1379
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:36,593
I think the part
that sounds like love to me is,
1380
01:34:36,676 --> 01:34:38,678
"Don't want no other
shade of blue but you.
1381
01:34:38,762 --> 01:34:40,722
No other sadness in the world would do."
1382
01:34:40,805 --> 01:34:43,850
It sounds like-- To me,
that sounds like what love really is.
1383
01:34:43,933 --> 01:34:45,643
Like, "Who would you be sad with?
1384
01:34:45,727 --> 01:34:47,812
And who would you deal with
when they were sad?"
1385
01:34:47,896 --> 01:34:52,067
And like, "Gray skies every day
for months, would you still stay?"
1386
01:34:52,150 --> 01:34:53,109
Yeah.
1387
01:34:53,193 --> 01:34:56,279
One, two. One...
1388
01:34:57,072 --> 01:34:59,991
♪ My only one ♪
1389
01:35:00,784 --> 01:35:04,162
♪ My smoking gun ♪
1390
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:07,791
♪ My eclipsed sun ♪
1391
01:35:07,874 --> 01:35:12,087
♪ This has broken me down ♪
1392
01:35:13,254 --> 01:35:16,716
♪ My twisted knife ♪
1393
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:20,053
♪ My sleepless night ♪
1394
01:35:21,221 --> 01:35:23,973
♪ My winless fight ♪
1395
01:35:24,057 --> 01:35:28,269
♪ This has frozen my ground ♪
1396
01:35:29,813 --> 01:35:32,440
♪ Stood on the cliffside ♪
1397
01:35:32,524 --> 01:35:36,778
♪ Screaming, "Give me a reason" ♪
1398
01:35:38,113 --> 01:35:44,994
♪ Your faithless love's the only hoax
I believe in ♪
1399
01:35:46,162 --> 01:35:52,168
♪ Don't want no other shade of blue
But you ♪
1400
01:35:54,129 --> 01:36:00,510
♪ No other sadness in the world would do ♪
1401
01:36:01,261 --> 01:36:04,472
♪ My best laid plan ♪
1402
01:36:05,557 --> 01:36:08,810
♪ Your sleight of hand ♪
1403
01:36:09,644 --> 01:36:12,313
♪ My barren land ♪
1404
01:36:12,397 --> 01:36:16,776
♪ I am ash from your fire ♪
1405
01:36:17,944 --> 01:36:20,905
♪ Stood on the cliffside ♪
1406
01:36:20,989 --> 01:36:25,326
♪ Screaming, "Give me a reason" ♪
1407
01:36:26,453 --> 01:36:33,418
♪ Your faithless love's the only hoax
I believe in ♪
1408
01:36:34,544 --> 01:36:40,633
♪ Don't want no other shade of blue
But you ♪
1409
01:36:42,552 --> 01:36:48,641
♪ No other sadness in the world would do ♪
1410
01:36:51,644 --> 01:36:55,357
♪ You know I left a part of me
Back in New York ♪
1411
01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:59,361
♪ You knew the hero died
So what's the movie for ♪
1412
01:36:59,444 --> 01:37:02,864
♪ You knew it still hurts
Underneath my scars ♪
1413
01:37:02,947 --> 01:37:05,533
♪ From when they pulled me apart ♪
1414
01:37:07,911 --> 01:37:11,289
♪ You knew the password
So I let you in the door ♪
1415
01:37:11,373 --> 01:37:15,460
♪ You knew you won
So what's the point of keeping score? ♪
1416
01:37:15,543 --> 01:37:19,005
♪ You knew it still hurts
Underneath my scars ♪
1417
01:37:19,089 --> 01:37:20,882
♪ From when they pulled me apart ♪
1418
01:37:20,965 --> 01:37:24,469
♪ But what you did was just as dark ♪
1419
01:37:28,973 --> 01:37:35,689
♪ Darling, this was just as hard
As when they pulled me apart ♪
1420
01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:41,236
♪ My only one ♪
1421
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:45,657
♪ My kingdom come undone ♪
1422
01:37:46,408 --> 01:37:48,868
♪ My broken drum ♪
1423
01:37:48,952 --> 01:37:53,707
♪ You have beaten my heart ♪
1424
01:37:55,208 --> 01:38:01,131
♪ Don't want no other shade of blue
But you ♪
1425
01:38:03,299 --> 01:38:09,431
♪ No other sadness in the world would do ♪
1426
01:38:33,830 --> 01:38:36,041
I think "the lakes" sort of sounds
like a testament
1427
01:38:36,124 --> 01:38:40,295
of what I've wanted to escape from
1428
01:38:40,378 --> 01:38:42,839
and where I saw myself escaping.
1429
01:38:42,922 --> 01:38:46,343
Um, we'd gone to the Lake District
in England, uh, a couple years ago.
1430
01:38:46,426 --> 01:38:47,927
What is the Lake District?
1431
01:38:48,011 --> 01:38:51,348
It's in England, and, you know,
in the 19th century,
1432
01:38:51,431 --> 01:38:54,059
you had a lot of poets
like William Wordsworth,
1433
01:38:54,142 --> 01:38:57,228
and John Keats would spend
a lot of time there.
1434
01:38:57,312 --> 01:39:01,566
There was a poet district,
these artists that moved there,
1435
01:39:01,649 --> 01:39:05,028
and they were kind of heckled for it
and made fun of for it
1436
01:39:05,111 --> 01:39:10,867
as being these eccentrics
and these kind of odd, um, odd artists
1437
01:39:10,950 --> 01:39:13,078
who decided that
they just wanted to live there.
1438
01:39:13,161 --> 01:39:16,164
And I remembered when we went, I thought,
1439
01:39:16,247 --> 01:39:19,959
"Man, I could see this.
1440
01:39:20,043 --> 01:39:21,878
You know, you live in a cottage,
1441
01:39:21,961 --> 01:39:24,506
and you've got wisteria growing up
the outside of it,
1442
01:39:24,589 --> 01:39:27,759
and you just-- [stammers]
1443
01:39:27,842 --> 01:39:30,595
Of course they escaped like that.
Of course they would do that."
1444
01:39:30,679 --> 01:39:34,265
And they had their own community of
other artists who had done the same thing.
1445
01:39:34,349 --> 01:39:39,187
And then, I've always, in my career,
since I was probably about 20,
1446
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:42,857
written about this sort of
cottage backup plan that I have.
1447
01:39:42,941 --> 01:39:45,652
-You've been writing about that forever.
-I've been writing about it forever.
1448
01:39:45,735 --> 01:39:47,696
You've been writing about
getting out forever.
1449
01:39:47,779 --> 01:39:50,657
Yeah. So "the lakes"
is really talking a lot about
1450
01:39:50,740 --> 01:39:52,867
relating to people who,
hundreds of years ago,
1451
01:39:52,951 --> 01:39:56,788
had the same exit plan and did it.
And they went and did it.
1452
01:39:56,871 --> 01:39:59,582
I went to William Wordsworth's grave
1453
01:39:59,666 --> 01:40:03,336
and just sat there, and I was like,
"Wow, you went and did it."
1454
01:40:03,420 --> 01:40:04,796
-Yeah.
-"You just did it.
1455
01:40:04,879 --> 01:40:07,007
You just went away, and you kept writing,
1456
01:40:07,090 --> 01:40:09,801
but you didn't subscribe to the things
that were killing you."
1457
01:40:09,884 --> 01:40:13,847
[stammers] You left those things behind
in a real way.
1458
01:40:13,930 --> 01:40:17,225
And that's really
the overarching thing that I felt
1459
01:40:17,308 --> 01:40:19,144
when I was writing folklore is,
1460
01:40:19,227 --> 01:40:22,647
I may not be able to go
to the Lakes right now,
1461
01:40:22,731 --> 01:40:26,067
or to go anywhere,
but I'm going there in my head,
1462
01:40:26,151 --> 01:40:28,695
-and this escape plan is working.
-Well, you have your version of it.
1463
01:40:28,778 --> 01:40:31,990
That, to me, is the hope
in this body of work is that
1464
01:40:32,073 --> 01:40:34,034
it's not, "I can't do this. I'm out."
1465
01:40:34,117 --> 01:40:37,912
It's, "I've found something
worth escaping with."
1466
01:40:37,996 --> 01:40:39,831
-And a person to escape with.
-And a person.
1467
01:40:39,914 --> 01:40:43,168
And, to me, that's a huge,
sincere statement of hope
1468
01:40:43,251 --> 01:40:47,839
that everything I'm naming
is completely small compared to this love.
1469
01:40:47,922 --> 01:40:49,716
Yeah, it's the perfect--
1470
01:40:49,799 --> 01:40:54,054
I thought it would be the perfect way
to slot the last puzzle piece in,
1471
01:40:54,137 --> 01:40:56,348
right when people least expected it.
1472
01:40:56,431 --> 01:40:57,432
Yeah.
1473
01:40:57,515 --> 01:41:00,977
Um, because "hoax" as the ending song
for the record,
1474
01:41:01,061 --> 01:41:04,230
I thought was interesting
for a couple weeks,
1475
01:41:04,314 --> 01:41:08,610
but then I wanted to actually come in
with the real last song of the record,
1476
01:41:08,693 --> 01:41:13,239
which is this song that-- "the lakes,"
which shows you exactly what--
1477
01:41:13,323 --> 01:41:16,242
It kinda is the overarching theme
of the whole album,
1478
01:41:16,326 --> 01:41:20,955
of trying to escape,
having something you wanna protect,
1479
01:41:21,039 --> 01:41:23,500
trying to protect your own sanity,
1480
01:41:23,583 --> 01:41:26,795
and saying, "Look, they did this
hundreds of years ago.
1481
01:41:27,295 --> 01:41:30,048
I'm not the first person
who's felt this way. They did this."
1482
01:41:30,131 --> 01:41:32,550
It's a really potent statement right now.
1483
01:41:32,634 --> 01:41:34,928
I think the idea of getting away
and figuring out
1484
01:41:35,011 --> 01:41:39,140
how to remove the things
that are not working in one's life
1485
01:41:39,224 --> 01:41:41,226
is the story of this time.
1486
01:41:41,309 --> 01:41:43,520
-Yeah.
-If you're not thinking about that,
1487
01:41:43,603 --> 01:41:45,146
I don't know what you're thinking about.
1488
01:41:50,735 --> 01:41:57,283
♪ Is it romantic how all my elegies ♪
1489
01:41:57,367 --> 01:41:59,994
♪ Eulogize me? ♪
1490
01:42:01,204 --> 01:42:08,128
♪ I'm not cut out
For all these cynical clones ♪
1491
01:42:08,211 --> 01:42:11,631
♪ These hunters with cell phones ♪
1492
01:42:11,715 --> 01:42:15,635
♪ Take me to the Lakes
Where all the poets went to die ♪
1493
01:42:15,719 --> 01:42:17,387
♪ I don't belong ♪
1494
01:42:17,470 --> 01:42:20,181
♪ And, my beloved, neither do you ♪
1495
01:42:22,308 --> 01:42:26,312
♪ Those Windermere peaks
Look like a perfect place to cry ♪
1496
01:42:26,396 --> 01:42:30,567
♪ I'm setting off
But not without my muse ♪
1497
01:42:33,278 --> 01:42:36,114
♪ What should be over ♪
1498
01:42:36,656 --> 01:42:39,743
♪ Burrowed under my skin ♪
1499
01:42:40,535 --> 01:42:43,872
♪ In heart-stopping waves of hurt ♪
1500
01:42:43,955 --> 01:42:50,462
♪ I've come too far
To watch some name-dropping sleaze ♪
1501
01:42:50,545 --> 01:42:53,715
♪ Tell me what are my words worth ♪
1502
01:42:54,507 --> 01:42:58,219
♪ Take me to the Lakes
Where all the poets went to die ♪
1503
01:42:58,303 --> 01:43:00,096
♪ I don't belong ♪
1504
01:43:00,180 --> 01:43:02,766
♪ And, my beloved, neither do you ♪
1505
01:43:05,018 --> 01:43:08,855
♪ Those Windermere peaks
Look like a perfect place to cry ♪
1506
01:43:08,938 --> 01:43:13,318
♪ I'm setting off
But not without my muse ♪
1507
01:43:15,195 --> 01:43:19,824
♪ I want auroras and sad prose ♪
1508
01:43:20,575 --> 01:43:25,163
♪ I want to watch wisteria grow ♪
1509
01:43:25,246 --> 01:43:28,416
♪ Right over my bare feet ♪
1510
01:43:28,500 --> 01:43:34,089
♪ Cause I haven't moved in years ♪
1511
01:43:34,172 --> 01:43:36,591
♪ And I want you right here ♪
1512
01:43:37,717 --> 01:43:44,307
♪ A red rose grew up
Out of ice frozen ground ♪
1513
01:43:44,391 --> 01:43:47,519
♪ With no one around to tweet it ♪
1514
01:43:47,602 --> 01:43:51,564
♪ While I bathe in cliffside pools ♪
1515
01:43:51,648 --> 01:43:57,737
♪ With my calamitous love
And insurmountable grief ♪
1516
01:43:58,655 --> 01:44:02,283
♪ Take me to the Lakes
Where all the poets went to die ♪
1517
01:44:02,367 --> 01:44:03,952
♪ I don't belong ♪
1518
01:44:04,035 --> 01:44:06,663
♪ My beloved, neither do you ♪
1519
01:44:08,873 --> 01:44:13,003
♪ Those Windermere peaks
Look like a perfect place to cry ♪
1520
01:44:13,086 --> 01:44:17,924
♪ I'm setting off
But not without my muse ♪
1521
01:44:18,008 --> 01:44:20,719
♪ No, not without you ♪
1522
01:44:28,601 --> 01:44:34,524
♪ No, not without you ♪
1523
01:44:46,411 --> 01:44:47,620
That oughta do it.
1524
01:44:50,165 --> 01:44:51,666
[chuckles]
1525
01:44:51,750 --> 01:44:53,043
[Antonoff softly] Beautiful.
1526
01:44:53,543 --> 01:44:54,753
[Swift] Whiskey?
1527
01:44:54,836 --> 01:44:56,796
-[Dessner] This way to the whiskey.
-[Swift laughs]
1528
01:45:11,436 --> 01:45:15,815
So the record was recorded here,
my studio, and your house.
1529
01:45:15,899 --> 01:45:17,192
Yes.
1530
01:45:17,275 --> 01:45:18,943
Did you give it a name?
1531
01:45:19,027 --> 01:45:22,655
Yes. Think it's called
Kitty Committee Studios on the album?
1532
01:45:22,739 --> 01:45:23,740
It works.
1533
01:45:23,823 --> 01:45:27,243
It does, 'cause I've got cats fighting
in the background, on the bed.
1534
01:45:27,327 --> 01:45:28,995
[Antonoff] There was a big cat vibe, yeah.
1535
01:45:29,079 --> 01:45:30,622
And then the cats were the only people--
1536
01:45:30,705 --> 01:45:32,916
-Laura kept getting cats.
-[Swift] The cats were going in and out
1537
01:45:32,999 --> 01:45:34,542
because if I were to close the door
on them,
1538
01:45:34,626 --> 01:45:35,877
-they'd meow.
-[Antonoff] Yeah.
1539
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:38,213
[Swift] So they need to be able
to be free-range cats.
1540
01:45:38,296 --> 01:45:39,631
-[Antonoff] Yes.
-Yeah, cage-free.
1541
01:45:41,049 --> 01:45:43,468
Guys. Stop it. Stop. Stop!
1542
01:45:45,261 --> 01:45:48,306
Benjamin always starts it,
and Olivia always finishes it.
1543
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:51,476
He's twice her size,
but she's an amazing fighter. Look at her.
1544
01:45:51,559 --> 01:45:54,479
It's usually Benjamin and Olivia
that have lots of--
1545
01:45:54,562 --> 01:45:56,564
I call them the marshmallow wars.
1546
01:45:56,648 --> 01:45:59,484
No one's gonna get hurt,
but there's a lot of--
1547
01:45:59,567 --> 01:46:01,027
There's a lot of this.
1548
01:46:01,111 --> 01:46:02,112
It was bizarre.
1549
01:46:02,195 --> 01:46:03,488
It really was bizarre,
1550
01:46:03,571 --> 01:46:06,950
but it was, at the same time,
my favorite recording experience.
1551
01:46:07,033 --> 01:46:10,620
Yeah. I mean, it's just a very cool way
to have made an album.
1552
01:46:10,704 --> 01:46:12,163
Yeah, it really is.
1553
01:46:12,314 --> 01:46:15,486
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1554
01:46:15,667 --> 01:46:18,086
[typing]
1555
01:46:18,169 --> 01:46:19,295
[ding]
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