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[disquieting music]
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His hands are around my neck.
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[Wayne] It should've
been a slam dunk.
4
00:00:37,037 --> 00:00:38,777
You caught the man in the act.
5
00:00:38,951 --> 00:00:41,041
♪
6
00:00:41,128 --> 00:00:43,217
[Gary] This was
the worst outcome
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00:00:43,304 --> 00:00:45,001
of my career.
8
00:00:45,132 --> 00:00:47,090
[Jillian] Samuel
Little never thought
9
00:00:47,221 --> 00:00:49,745
that he would be convicted.
10
00:00:49,832 --> 00:00:52,095
There was such a
miscarriage of justice.
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00:00:52,226 --> 00:00:54,271
[Laurie] They failed me.
12
00:00:54,402 --> 00:00:57,057
They failed every
woman after me.
13
00:00:57,187 --> 00:00:59,059
Because we're
prostitutes, we're women,
14
00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:00,582
it doesn't really matter.
15
00:01:00,669 --> 00:01:02,018
So guess what.
16
00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:05,456
All the deaths after
me are on them.
17
00:01:05,587 --> 00:01:07,154
[Mitzi] It sickens me now
18
00:01:07,284 --> 00:01:09,895
that so many women are dead:
19
00:01:10,026 --> 00:01:12,463
Melinda LaPree, Patricia Mount,
20
00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:14,987
Carol Alford, Audrey Nelson,
21
00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:18,426
Guadalupe Apodaca, and more.
22
00:01:18,556 --> 00:01:20,602
[Darren] But there's
two more prostitutes
23
00:01:20,689 --> 00:01:22,952
that have survived Sam's attack:
24
00:01:23,083 --> 00:01:26,086
Hilda Nelson and Leila McClain.
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[Mitzi] Leila McClain
summed it up to a T
26
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when she said, "Ain't
nobody gonna believe
27
00:01:31,221 --> 00:01:32,701
"a Black prostitute
28
00:01:32,788 --> 00:01:35,486
in Pascagoula,
Mississippi, in 1982."
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♪
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[melancholy music]
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[Jillian] In August of 2018,
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when I interviewed
Sam the first time,
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00:01:50,849 --> 00:01:53,591
he had maintained his innocence,
34
00:01:53,722 --> 00:01:56,551
but by the end of
our second interview,
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he started confessing to me,
36
00:01:58,248 --> 00:02:02,034
and he told me about
13 murders that day.
37
00:02:02,165 --> 00:02:04,994
It left me, like, frozen.
38
00:02:05,125 --> 00:02:07,866
I sort of [exhales deeply]
39
00:02:07,997 --> 00:02:12,784
said, "Okay, call law
enforcement immediately."
40
00:02:12,915 --> 00:02:17,093
And so I called Mitzi
Roberts, and I said,
41
00:02:17,224 --> 00:02:19,313
"He's talking.
42
00:02:19,443 --> 00:02:20,705
What do I do?"
43
00:02:20,836 --> 00:02:22,533
[suspenseful music]
44
00:02:22,664 --> 00:02:24,579
And she said, "There
is a lead investigator
45
00:02:24,709 --> 00:02:27,277
on this now, and he
is a Texas Ranger."
46
00:02:28,496 --> 00:02:30,498
Ranger James Holland
47
00:02:30,585 --> 00:02:32,456
was organizing a national effort
48
00:02:32,587 --> 00:02:35,067
to solve these cold cases
49
00:02:35,198 --> 00:02:37,505
related to Samuel Little.
50
00:02:37,635 --> 00:02:42,162
So I got a call from
Ranger Holland, saying:
51
00:02:42,292 --> 00:02:45,339
"Hello, this is Texas
Ranger James Holland,
52
00:02:45,469 --> 00:02:48,864
and I hear that you have
some information for me."
53
00:02:48,994 --> 00:02:50,474
And I said, "Well, you know",
54
00:02:50,605 --> 00:02:52,955
"can I just organize
my notes? Can I"...
55
00:02:53,085 --> 00:02:55,131
He's like, "No. Just
read them to me.
56
00:02:55,262 --> 00:02:57,438
Just give-just give it
to me. What do you got?"
57
00:02:57,568 --> 00:02:59,067
And as I went through
them, he was like,
58
00:02:59,091 --> 00:03:00,702
"Got it, go.
59
00:03:00,832 --> 00:03:02,965
Next one, next one,
next one, next one."
60
00:03:03,095 --> 00:03:04,815
And I was just like,
"Okay, I guess he knows
61
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,230
about these murders already."
62
00:03:07,361 --> 00:03:10,320
And then I told him
63
00:03:10,451 --> 00:03:14,803
about the victim in Omaha
that was left in a barrel,
64
00:03:14,933 --> 00:03:16,544
and then he said,
65
00:03:16,631 --> 00:03:19,111
"Stop.
66
00:03:19,242 --> 00:03:20,461
Say that again?"
67
00:03:20,548 --> 00:03:21,984
[dramatic music]
68
00:03:26,118 --> 00:03:27,118
[Jillian] Right.
69
00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:29,469
[Jillian] Right.
70
00:03:31,341 --> 00:03:35,171
The victim was a
Native American woman.
71
00:03:35,302 --> 00:03:37,521
She was in a bar,
72
00:03:37,652 --> 00:03:40,872
and Sam walked in, and he said,
73
00:03:41,003 --> 00:03:44,180
"Is that an Indian?
74
00:03:44,311 --> 00:03:45,529
Never met a real Indian."
75
00:04:06,768 --> 00:04:08,857
[ominous music]
76
00:04:08,987 --> 00:04:12,600
[Jillian] Her friend said,
"Don't get in the car,"
77
00:04:12,730 --> 00:04:14,515
but she got in the car.
78
00:04:14,689 --> 00:04:16,690
♪
79
00:04:25,352 --> 00:04:26,352
[Jillian] Hmm.
80
00:04:41,890 --> 00:04:45,807
[Jillian] And he strangled
her there in the car
81
00:04:45,894 --> 00:04:49,985
and left her naked
body in this barrel.
82
00:04:50,159 --> 00:04:53,075
♪
83
00:04:55,556 --> 00:04:57,166
So two days later,
84
00:04:57,297 --> 00:04:59,951
Ranger James Holland calls back,
85
00:05:00,038 --> 00:05:03,390
and he's like, "We got her.
86
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,044
We got the victim in Omaha,"
87
00:05:06,131 --> 00:05:07,959
the one from my confession.
88
00:05:08,090 --> 00:05:10,658
That was the information
that identified her,
89
00:05:10,745 --> 00:05:13,835
and it was Agatha White Buffalo.
90
00:05:13,965 --> 00:05:16,316
[news reporter] In 1973,
91
00:05:16,446 --> 00:05:18,709
the body of the
34-year-old was found
92
00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:19,991
stuffed in one of these barrels
93
00:05:20,015 --> 00:05:21,756
at 27th and N.
94
00:05:21,886 --> 00:05:23,932
She had been strangled to death.
95
00:05:24,062 --> 00:05:27,022
Her murder is no
longer a cold case.
96
00:05:27,152 --> 00:05:30,068
Omaha police tell me it's
officially classified now
97
00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:32,375
as exceptionally clear.
98
00:05:33,289 --> 00:05:34,689
[Jillian] Initially,
I wasn't trying
99
00:05:34,769 --> 00:05:37,337
to solve a murder.
100
00:05:37,467 --> 00:05:39,600
I just remember walking
outside and saying,
101
00:05:39,730 --> 00:05:41,882
you know, like, "I think maybe
I just did the best thing
102
00:05:41,906 --> 00:05:44,082
I've ever done in my life."
103
00:05:45,649 --> 00:05:49,392
And I haven't been
able to stop since.
104
00:05:49,566 --> 00:05:52,700
♪
105
00:05:52,830 --> 00:05:54,571
[news reporter] The FBI
calls Samuel Little.
106
00:05:54,702 --> 00:05:57,095
America's most
prolific serial killer.
107
00:05:57,226 --> 00:05:59,968
[Sam] If you want me to
tell my secrets to you,
108
00:06:00,098 --> 00:06:02,362
come down here and
look me in my eye
109
00:06:02,492 --> 00:06:04,320
while I do.
110
00:06:04,451 --> 00:06:07,149
[Jillian] My deal
with the devil is,
111
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,327
"You will not die alone
if you tell me the truth."
112
00:06:11,414 --> 00:06:12,739
[Sam] I'm not gonna
admit to those girls.
113
00:06:12,763 --> 00:06:14,330
[Jillian] I don't believe you.
114
00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,854
So you tell me the
truth right now.
115
00:06:16,985 --> 00:06:19,422
[news reporter] Little
strangled 93 victims
116
00:06:19,553 --> 00:06:22,164
between 1970 and 2005.
117
00:06:22,251 --> 00:06:23,861
[Jillian] He was
tried and got off
118
00:06:23,992 --> 00:06:25,559
again and again and again.
119
00:06:25,689 --> 00:06:27,129
[news reporter]
Investigators believe
120
00:06:27,212 --> 00:06:28,652
that Samuel Little
killed more people
121
00:06:28,736 --> 00:06:30,781
than serial killers Ted Bundy,
122
00:06:30,868 --> 00:06:33,958
John Wayne Gacy, and
Jeffrey Dahmer combined.
123
00:06:34,872 --> 00:06:35,980
[Jillian] If you
weren't locked up,
124
00:06:36,004 --> 00:06:38,441
I'd probably be dead by now.
125
00:06:38,572 --> 00:06:40,443
[Sam] You're right.
126
00:06:46,362 --> 00:06:49,104
[footsteps clomping]
127
00:06:54,065 --> 00:06:56,590
[Jillian] These are all drawings
128
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,940
that Sam has sent me.
129
00:07:03,423 --> 00:07:07,644
These are his murder victims.
130
00:07:07,775 --> 00:07:10,908
[melancholy string music]
131
00:07:11,039 --> 00:07:14,434
Sam learned to draw in the
Ohio State Reformatory,
132
00:07:14,564 --> 00:07:16,392
where he was incarcerated
133
00:07:16,523 --> 00:07:20,135
when he was 17 years old.
134
00:07:20,265 --> 00:07:23,834
It's interesting to think
about how you can have
135
00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:28,578
the kind of close
observation that art requires
136
00:07:28,709 --> 00:07:33,235
and then also... the
complete disregard
137
00:07:33,365 --> 00:07:36,847
for human life that
murder requires.
138
00:07:38,066 --> 00:07:42,679
You can definitely see his
art changing over time.
139
00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:46,640
I guess my hope is that
they're getting more
140
00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:48,642
true to life,
141
00:07:48,772 --> 00:07:50,731
because then they
might be matched
142
00:07:50,818 --> 00:07:52,994
to an unidentified victim.
143
00:07:53,168 --> 00:07:56,214
♪
144
00:07:56,301 --> 00:07:58,301
You know, these are the
ones I keep in my office...
145
00:07:58,434 --> 00:08:00,828
♪
146
00:08:00,958 --> 00:08:05,746
As sort of references
and, um, inspiration
147
00:08:05,833 --> 00:08:07,661
to keep going
148
00:08:07,791 --> 00:08:10,315
investigating these murders.
149
00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,451
These are not curiosities to me.
150
00:08:15,582 --> 00:08:18,019
These are lives
151
00:08:18,149 --> 00:08:19,977
that were lost.
152
00:08:23,198 --> 00:08:24,765
This is Audrey,
153
00:08:24,895 --> 00:08:27,376
one of Sam's victims
from Los Angeles.
154
00:08:28,551 --> 00:08:31,902
I have a relationship
with a lot of the victims,
155
00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:35,297
but I most relate to Audrey
156
00:08:35,427 --> 00:08:38,518
and think that that
could've been me.
157
00:08:38,648 --> 00:08:41,999
Audrey was really artistic.
158
00:08:42,130 --> 00:08:45,002
She was, like, a very
loud, bright personality,
159
00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:48,963
and so when I want
160
00:08:49,050 --> 00:08:52,096
kind of creative
motivation or inspiration,
161
00:08:52,183 --> 00:08:53,358
I'll talk to Audrey.
162
00:08:53,489 --> 00:08:55,404
[dramatic music]
163
00:08:55,535 --> 00:08:57,972
This is a victim of Sam's
164
00:08:58,102 --> 00:09:02,367
that is still unidentified.
165
00:09:02,498 --> 00:09:05,196
He often draws
petechial hemorrhaging
166
00:09:05,327 --> 00:09:06,458
in their eyes,
167
00:09:06,589 --> 00:09:08,678
which is
168
00:09:08,809 --> 00:09:10,854
what happens when
you're strangled,
169
00:09:10,985 --> 00:09:12,682
broken blood vessels
in your eyes.
170
00:09:12,856 --> 00:09:15,990
♪
171
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,036
I write a lot from the
victims' perspectives,
172
00:09:19,167 --> 00:09:22,779
which I feel is taking
a lot of license,
173
00:09:22,866 --> 00:09:26,435
and I wanna be very
mindful of that.
174
00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:30,657
I really try to
175
00:09:30,744 --> 00:09:32,528
ask their permission.
176
00:09:32,702 --> 00:09:35,226
♪
177
00:09:35,357 --> 00:09:37,402
And I ask,
178
00:09:37,533 --> 00:09:38,882
"Can I tell your story,
179
00:09:39,013 --> 00:09:40,623
and will you help me?"
180
00:09:41,711 --> 00:09:43,104
What I like to imagine
181
00:09:43,234 --> 00:09:45,236
is that Sam is no longer
182
00:09:45,367 --> 00:09:47,587
the only person
183
00:09:47,717 --> 00:09:50,938
who witnessed those moments.
184
00:09:51,068 --> 00:09:54,855
I don't want them to...
185
00:09:55,029 --> 00:09:58,119
♪
186
00:09:58,249 --> 00:10:00,382
Just have been alone
with a monster, you know?
187
00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:03,428
♪
188
00:10:03,515 --> 00:10:05,517
This is one of his
favorite victims.
189
00:10:05,648 --> 00:10:07,824
I don't think he even knows
190
00:10:07,911 --> 00:10:11,611
why certain victims stay
with him more than others,
191
00:10:11,741 --> 00:10:13,917
or he-he goes over
and over and over them
192
00:10:14,048 --> 00:10:15,963
again in his mind
193
00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:18,487
while he's lying
there in his cell.
194
00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:22,752
This reads, "Sam kill me
but he knows I love him.
195
00:10:22,883 --> 00:10:24,275
Ms. Sam."
196
00:10:24,406 --> 00:10:25,929
[eerie music]
197
00:10:26,060 --> 00:10:27,322
And then this reads,
198
00:10:27,452 --> 00:10:29,106
"Your sister Jillian.
199
00:10:29,237 --> 00:10:32,109
My dream. Mr. Sam."
200
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,286
There's very little that
does not creep me out
201
00:10:35,417 --> 00:10:36,592
about any of this.
202
00:10:36,723 --> 00:10:38,768
Yeah, he believes
203
00:10:38,899 --> 00:10:40,727
that I'm
204
00:10:40,814 --> 00:10:42,380
basically one of his victims,
205
00:10:42,511 --> 00:10:46,167
like I'm a living,
breathing victim,
206
00:10:46,297 --> 00:10:49,866
but essentially,
I belong to him.
207
00:10:49,997 --> 00:10:51,694
He possesses me
208
00:10:51,825 --> 00:10:53,261
the same way that he feels,
209
00:10:53,348 --> 00:10:55,176
uh, about his victims,
210
00:10:55,306 --> 00:10:59,136
and, um, that we're all
gonna be together again
211
00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:00,355
in heaven.
212
00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:02,313
♪
213
00:11:02,444 --> 00:11:04,925
[sighs]
214
00:11:05,099 --> 00:11:07,014
♪
215
00:11:14,195 --> 00:11:16,110
[Jillian] You feel that
God has forgiven you?
216
00:11:31,865 --> 00:11:32,865
[Jillian] Right.
217
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:35,999
[line beeps]
218
00:11:36,130 --> 00:11:38,175
[sighs] Jesus.
219
00:11:38,349 --> 00:11:41,439
♪
220
00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:44,094
How did I get the ear
of a serial killer?
221
00:11:44,225 --> 00:11:45,617
I listened to him.
222
00:11:45,792 --> 00:11:47,532
♪
223
00:11:47,663 --> 00:11:49,056
I told him I cared.
224
00:11:49,186 --> 00:11:51,014
I told him I wouldn't judge him.
225
00:11:51,145 --> 00:11:53,495
I told him I wouldn't leave him.
226
00:11:53,625 --> 00:11:55,453
I said, "Give it
to me straight",
227
00:11:55,584 --> 00:11:56,977
"give me everything,
228
00:11:57,107 --> 00:11:59,153
"and I'll take your calls,
229
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,111
"and I'll write you letters,
230
00:12:01,242 --> 00:12:03,679
and I'll be your friend."
231
00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:06,203
And that's how I
got him to talk.
232
00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:08,249
♪
233
00:12:13,907 --> 00:12:15,212
[Jillian] Yeah, tell me.
234
00:12:19,913 --> 00:12:21,001
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
235
00:12:44,285 --> 00:12:45,285
[Jillian] Right.
236
00:12:48,115 --> 00:12:49,203
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
237
00:12:54,208 --> 00:12:57,472
I'm in this very
unusual position
238
00:12:57,602 --> 00:13:01,302
because most people
don't get to interview
239
00:13:01,389 --> 00:13:03,434
someone of this
240
00:13:03,565 --> 00:13:07,134
degree of perniciousness
241
00:13:07,221 --> 00:13:09,092
and evil
242
00:13:09,223 --> 00:13:12,139
for this long of
a time, you know?
243
00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:16,230
It's a-it's, like, a two-year
interview process we've had
244
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,058
since I started working
on this project.
245
00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:21,104
♪
246
00:13:21,888 --> 00:13:24,151
[line trills]
247
00:13:24,281 --> 00:13:25,369
[Jill] This is Jill.
248
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:26,806
Hey, Jill. It's Jillian.
249
00:13:26,936 --> 00:13:28,503
- How are you?
- [Jill] Good.
250
00:13:30,722 --> 00:13:33,595
We're talking about
titles and cover.
251
00:13:34,422 --> 00:13:36,467
[Jill]
252
00:13:41,864 --> 00:13:43,605
- Uh-huh.
- [Jill]
253
00:13:45,172 --> 00:13:46,608
- [Jillian] Uh-huh.
- [Jill]
254
00:13:56,966 --> 00:14:00,143
Yeah. That's part of it.
255
00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,406
I definitely grapple with themes
256
00:14:02,493 --> 00:14:05,714
of, you know, what is
monstrous and what is human.
257
00:14:05,801 --> 00:14:08,195
♪
258
00:14:08,325 --> 00:14:10,675
I want to understand
259
00:14:10,806 --> 00:14:14,375
this kind of aberrant behavior.
260
00:14:14,505 --> 00:14:16,856
I wanna know his story,
261
00:14:16,986 --> 00:14:19,771
what made him who he is.
262
00:14:20,816 --> 00:14:23,384
Sam, will you tell me
about your childhood?
263
00:14:24,472 --> 00:14:25,603
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
264
00:14:25,734 --> 00:14:27,649
Why don't we start that story
265
00:14:27,736 --> 00:14:28,868
from the beginning?
266
00:14:40,183 --> 00:14:41,183
[Jillian] Mm.
267
00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:48,625
[Jillian] How?
268
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,240
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
269
00:14:59,072 --> 00:15:00,116
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
270
00:15:23,183 --> 00:15:25,968
[melancholy music]
271
00:15:26,142 --> 00:15:27,709
♪
272
00:15:27,796 --> 00:15:30,277
[Jillian] Samuel
Little was born in 1940
273
00:15:30,407 --> 00:15:33,323
in Reynolds, Georgia,
which is a rural town
274
00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:34,759
in the South.
275
00:15:34,846 --> 00:15:36,413
♪
276
00:15:36,544 --> 00:15:38,415
Sam Little's mother,
Bessie Mae Little,
277
00:15:38,546 --> 00:15:40,678
was 16 years old,
278
00:15:40,809 --> 00:15:42,724
and she had an affair
279
00:15:42,811 --> 00:15:44,682
with Paul McDowell,
280
00:15:44,813 --> 00:15:46,858
who was a little bit older.
281
00:15:47,033 --> 00:15:49,078
♪
282
00:15:49,209 --> 00:15:51,037
And she wound up
pregnant with Sam.
283
00:15:51,211 --> 00:15:54,170
♪
284
00:15:54,257 --> 00:15:55,693
Sam's mother, Bessie Mae,
285
00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:58,566
was raised by her grandmother,
286
00:15:58,696 --> 00:16:00,307
Josephine,
287
00:16:00,437 --> 00:16:03,963
because her mother
died in childbirth,
288
00:16:04,093 --> 00:16:07,444
and so this
grandmother was furious
289
00:16:07,575 --> 00:16:10,926
about Bessie Mae having a baby.
290
00:16:11,057 --> 00:16:13,146
[thunder booming]
291
00:16:13,276 --> 00:16:15,539
[rain pattering]
292
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:18,020
When Sam was somewhere
293
00:16:18,151 --> 00:16:20,327
between six and nine months old,
294
00:16:20,457 --> 00:16:23,243
Josephine put her
granddaughter out and said,
295
00:16:23,373 --> 00:16:27,812
"You need to... get
rid of this boy.
296
00:16:27,943 --> 00:16:31,599
Just leave him by the
side of the road."
297
00:16:31,773 --> 00:16:33,731
♪
298
00:16:51,097 --> 00:16:52,359
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
299
00:16:54,361 --> 00:16:56,145
[Jillian] And eventually,
300
00:16:56,276 --> 00:16:59,018
she just got too
despondent and exhausted
301
00:16:59,105 --> 00:17:01,281
and collapsed.
302
00:17:01,455 --> 00:17:03,370
♪
303
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,112
Bessie Mae crawled to
the side of the road,
304
00:17:06,242 --> 00:17:07,722
laid her baby down in the mud,
305
00:17:07,852 --> 00:17:10,333
eyes to God, and prayed.
306
00:17:10,464 --> 00:17:12,465
"Jesus," she said,
307
00:17:12,596 --> 00:17:14,771
"please protect this child."
308
00:17:14,945 --> 00:17:17,819
♪
309
00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:26,305
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
310
00:17:30,527 --> 00:17:34,575
[Jillian] There was a
peddler with a goat cart
311
00:17:34,705 --> 00:17:36,664
who everyone knew in the town.
312
00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:54,899
[Jillian] And everybody knew
313
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:58,120
that Bessie Mae's
child was Paul's child,
314
00:17:58,251 --> 00:18:00,427
and so this peddler
315
00:18:00,557 --> 00:18:02,472
picked Sam up
316
00:18:02,603 --> 00:18:05,606
and took him to his
paternal grandparents,
317
00:18:05,736 --> 00:18:08,478
and so Fanny and
Henry took him in.
318
00:18:08,652 --> 00:18:11,568
♪
319
00:18:11,699 --> 00:18:15,311
Sam was taken by
his grandparents
320
00:18:15,442 --> 00:18:17,487
to Lorain, Ohio,
321
00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,489
and raised by them
322
00:18:19,576 --> 00:18:24,059
as if he was their son.
323
00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:47,387
[music intensifies]
324
00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:03,750
[Jillian] Right.
325
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:14,500
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
326
00:19:38,307 --> 00:19:40,440
[suspenseful music]
327
00:19:48,274 --> 00:19:51,190
♪
328
00:19:54,932 --> 00:19:56,760
[Jillian] When he
was 13 years old,
329
00:19:56,891 --> 00:19:59,720
he ran away from home,
330
00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:03,506
and he saw these bicycles
lined up in a row,
331
00:20:03,637 --> 00:20:06,466
and that was his first real time
332
00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:07,728
he stole something.
333
00:20:07,815 --> 00:20:09,251
♪
334
00:20:09,382 --> 00:20:10,905
They arrested him,
335
00:20:10,992 --> 00:20:13,560
and based on that,
336
00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:17,128
he wound up in the
Boys' Industrial School.
337
00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:19,783
So the Boys' Industrial School
338
00:20:19,914 --> 00:20:23,134
was like the reformatory school.
339
00:20:23,961 --> 00:20:26,442
Sam was in there for 19 months.
340
00:20:26,573 --> 00:20:30,054
It was historically a
very abusive environment.
341
00:20:30,141 --> 00:20:32,231
[disquieting music]
342
00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:38,192
[Jillian] Right.
343
00:20:43,807 --> 00:20:45,287
[Jillian] Each night,
the younger boys
344
00:20:45,374 --> 00:20:48,986
kept their eyes shut
tight and prayed,
345
00:20:49,117 --> 00:20:51,815
listening to the footsteps
of the older boys
346
00:20:51,946 --> 00:20:55,558
strolling the rows of bunks.
347
00:20:55,689 --> 00:20:57,430
They knew the next
sound they heard
348
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,910
would be screams.
349
00:21:00,041 --> 00:21:02,304
If on some nights, those screams
350
00:21:02,435 --> 00:21:04,915
sounded suspiciously like Sam's,
351
00:21:05,046 --> 00:21:07,614
he knew it was never him.
352
00:21:07,744 --> 00:21:09,964
It was understood
353
00:21:10,094 --> 00:21:11,922
that even if it was you,
354
00:21:12,053 --> 00:21:13,750
you never admitted to it.
355
00:21:13,924 --> 00:21:16,840
♪
356
00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:55,923
[suspenseful music]
357
00:22:16,465 --> 00:22:17,465
[Jillian] Right.
358
00:22:29,522 --> 00:22:32,525
♪
359
00:22:32,655 --> 00:22:34,657
[Jillian] Sam has a very
360
00:22:34,788 --> 00:22:38,182
vehement victim narrative
361
00:22:38,313 --> 00:22:40,054
about his life.
362
00:22:40,184 --> 00:22:42,361
He really wanted to
share that with me.
363
00:22:42,491 --> 00:22:45,929
I just said, "I
would like to listen,
364
00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:48,149
"I would like to not judge you,
365
00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:50,543
and I just wanna understand."
366
00:22:50,673 --> 00:22:53,284
[uneasy music]
367
00:22:53,415 --> 00:22:57,332
During the time that Sam was
in the Ohio State Reformatory
368
00:22:57,463 --> 00:22:59,552
in the early '60s,
369
00:22:59,682 --> 00:23:01,510
his mother, Bessie Mae,
370
00:23:01,641 --> 00:23:04,078
sent him a letter.
371
00:23:04,208 --> 00:23:07,821
His mother, who he had not
seen since he was four,
372
00:23:07,908 --> 00:23:11,607
wrote him and said,
"I'm living in Miami.
373
00:23:11,738 --> 00:23:14,393
"I'm living in a place
called Coconut Grove.
374
00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:16,133
"It's fantastic.
375
00:23:16,264 --> 00:23:19,528
"The sun shines all the time.
376
00:23:19,659 --> 00:23:21,138
"I have money.
377
00:23:21,269 --> 00:23:24,359
Won't you come see me,
my one and only son?"
378
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:30,669
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
379
00:23:33,586 --> 00:23:34,586
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
380
00:23:41,332 --> 00:23:42,332
[Jillian laughs]
381
00:23:50,951 --> 00:23:53,388
[Jillian] Sam moved
in with his mother,
382
00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:55,695
who had sort of a rooming house.
383
00:23:55,869 --> 00:23:58,349
♪
384
00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:13,455
[Jillian] That's a
little weird, Sam.
385
00:24:13,495 --> 00:24:15,018
[laughs]
386
00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:21,677
♪
387
00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:24,245
His mother wanted to make sure
388
00:24:24,375 --> 00:24:26,334
he was having sex
389
00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:28,336
so she would have a grandchild,
390
00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:30,425
because she never
got to raise him.
391
00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:32,819
When that wasn't working,
392
00:24:32,949 --> 00:24:36,953
she would... crawl into
bed with him at night,
393
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,956
and she would have him
394
00:24:40,087 --> 00:24:44,178
suck on her breast
as an adult man.
395
00:25:00,107 --> 00:25:01,107
Wow.
396
00:25:13,555 --> 00:25:15,296
Whew!
397
00:25:15,426 --> 00:25:18,908
She was sexually
inappropriate with him,
398
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:23,217
but he'll apologize for
her until the end of time.
399
00:25:23,347 --> 00:25:25,262
You're talking about Bessie Mae?
400
00:25:25,393 --> 00:25:27,221
Did it make you angry,
401
00:25:27,351 --> 00:25:28,875
or did it make you aroused?
402
00:25:35,272 --> 00:25:38,101
[somber music]
403
00:25:38,275 --> 00:25:39,407
♪
404
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,235
[Jillian] Sam told me
405
00:25:41,365 --> 00:25:43,019
he had been thinking
about killing women
406
00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:44,412
for a long time.
407
00:25:46,719 --> 00:25:49,939
But it wasn't until he
moved in with his mother
408
00:25:50,026 --> 00:25:51,811
that he finally,
409
00:25:51,941 --> 00:25:55,423
after many years of
thinking about it
410
00:25:57,033 --> 00:25:58,339
killed a woman.
411
00:25:58,513 --> 00:26:00,080
♪
412
00:26:00,210 --> 00:26:03,170
He was like,
413
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:04,740
"You wanna know
about the first one?"
414
00:26:04,911 --> 00:26:06,129
♪
415
00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:08,044
And I was like, "Yeah.
416
00:26:08,175 --> 00:26:09,698
I wanna know about
the first one."
417
00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:11,352
♪
418
00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:21,274
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
419
00:26:54,569 --> 00:26:56,136
[dramatic music]
420
00:26:56,266 --> 00:26:58,399
[Jillian] How do you
build a psychopath?
421
00:26:58,486 --> 00:27:00,880
How do you build
a serial killer?
422
00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,186
I can't tell you
423
00:27:03,273 --> 00:27:07,451
what makes one person go
through all these things
424
00:27:07,582 --> 00:27:10,977
and turn into somebody
425
00:27:11,107 --> 00:27:13,632
who kills women.
426
00:27:13,762 --> 00:27:16,330
I'm not a neuroscientist.
427
00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:20,334
But my understanding
is that a serial killer
428
00:27:20,464 --> 00:27:24,817
is a perfect storm of
genetics and environment.
429
00:27:24,991 --> 00:27:27,123
♪
430
00:27:27,254 --> 00:27:30,344
The first murder happened
before Sam's mom died,
431
00:27:30,431 --> 00:27:32,868
and then after he
lost his mother,
432
00:27:32,999 --> 00:27:36,263
it is the ultimate abandonment,
433
00:27:36,393 --> 00:27:38,874
and he goes fully off the rails,
434
00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:43,009
and he went on a
rageful killing spree.
435
00:27:51,452 --> 00:27:53,497
[Jillian] It was
like the last thread
436
00:27:53,628 --> 00:27:56,326
that tied him to his mom snapped
437
00:27:56,457 --> 00:27:58,894
and he was free of all his guilt
438
00:27:59,025 --> 00:28:01,723
and obligation of trying
439
00:28:01,854 --> 00:28:04,552
to do the right
thing by his family,
440
00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:07,294
free to be who he truly was.
441
00:28:08,991 --> 00:28:11,515
Now there would be
no stopping him.
442
00:28:11,602 --> 00:28:14,475
[menacing music]
443
00:28:14,649 --> 00:28:17,913
♪
444
00:28:18,435 --> 00:28:21,308
My job is to enter a world
445
00:28:21,438 --> 00:28:23,440
and try to imagine myself
446
00:28:23,571 --> 00:28:25,399
into other people's minds
447
00:28:25,529 --> 00:28:27,793
and other people's lives.
448
00:28:27,923 --> 00:28:30,621
But it does seem like a
tremendous responsibility
449
00:28:30,752 --> 00:28:33,276
when those people
are no longer alive.
450
00:28:33,407 --> 00:28:36,149
[desolate music]
451
00:28:36,323 --> 00:28:37,890
♪
452
00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:39,326
I don't only wanna know
453
00:28:39,413 --> 00:28:41,197
what Sam has to say
454
00:28:41,328 --> 00:28:43,417
about the women he killed.
455
00:28:43,547 --> 00:28:47,073
I have a drive to
really understand
456
00:28:47,203 --> 00:28:49,423
these women... What
they were like,
457
00:28:49,553 --> 00:28:52,600
what they dreamed of,
who they truly were...
458
00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,429
And I wanna know
about their families,
459
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:58,867
because they are
also Sam's victims.
460
00:28:59,041 --> 00:29:01,304
♪
461
00:29:01,435 --> 00:29:02,653
[children shouting]
462
00:29:06,092 --> 00:29:08,094
[Pearl] My mother, Audrey,
463
00:29:08,224 --> 00:29:10,836
fought for her life.
464
00:29:10,923 --> 00:29:12,883
I always think about, like,
what she went through,
465
00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,710
what-what that was like for her.
466
00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:17,277
What else I got in here?
467
00:29:17,364 --> 00:29:19,496
[somber music]
468
00:29:19,583 --> 00:29:21,324
My name is Pearl,
469
00:29:21,455 --> 00:29:25,459
and I am Audrey
Nelson's daughter.
470
00:29:25,546 --> 00:29:27,243
Samuel Little murdered my mother
471
00:29:27,374 --> 00:29:28,723
in Los Angeles.
472
00:29:30,203 --> 00:29:32,945
These are a couple
little stuffed animals
473
00:29:33,075 --> 00:29:34,816
that my mom tried to send to me
474
00:29:34,947 --> 00:29:37,297
through my Uncle Bill
475
00:29:37,384 --> 00:29:40,604
so I would know that, uh,
she was thinking of me.
476
00:29:40,735 --> 00:29:43,651
[Jillian] The
multigenerational ripple effect
477
00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:46,741
of unsolved cold case murder
478
00:29:46,872 --> 00:29:48,917
is massive.
479
00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:51,311
For many of these families,
480
00:29:51,398 --> 00:29:53,748
I'm the first person
they've told this story to,
481
00:29:53,879 --> 00:29:56,316
so I feel like it's
my responsibility
482
00:29:56,403 --> 00:29:58,448
to hold their pain
and listen to them.
483
00:29:58,622 --> 00:30:00,450
♪
484
00:30:00,581 --> 00:30:03,758
All those years not
knowing what happened
485
00:30:03,889 --> 00:30:05,804
to my mother, Audrey,
486
00:30:05,934 --> 00:30:08,458
was very difficult.
487
00:30:08,589 --> 00:30:10,678
It's something
that you really put
488
00:30:10,765 --> 00:30:12,506
deep inside of you,
489
00:30:12,636 --> 00:30:15,378
and it's terrible that
you can't share that.
490
00:30:15,552 --> 00:30:17,685
♪
491
00:30:17,816 --> 00:30:20,296
And so one day, I get a message
492
00:30:20,427 --> 00:30:23,212
from a lady named
Jillian Lauren,
493
00:30:23,299 --> 00:30:27,695
and she says that she was
gonna be writing a book,
494
00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:31,220
and she wanted to know
about my mother, Audrey.
495
00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:34,745
Jillian wanted to
really shine some light
496
00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:36,399
- on the victims...
- [knocking]
497
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:38,271
and tell their story,
498
00:30:38,401 --> 00:30:39,794
and I said, "Yeah, come on up."
499
00:30:39,925 --> 00:30:42,536
[Jillian] Oh, gosh, hi! [Laughs]
500
00:30:42,623 --> 00:30:43,667
How are you?
501
00:30:43,798 --> 00:30:44,838
[Pearl] Good. How are you?
502
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:46,279
Good.
503
00:30:47,019 --> 00:30:48,977
[Pearl] These are the
treasures that I have
504
00:30:49,108 --> 00:30:50,674
of my mother.
505
00:30:50,805 --> 00:30:52,198
This'll kind of be nice
506
00:30:52,328 --> 00:30:53,677
for you to see.
507
00:30:53,808 --> 00:30:56,332
Where's this photo from?
508
00:30:56,419 --> 00:30:58,334
Is that her high
school yearbook?
509
00:30:58,465 --> 00:30:59,985
[Pearl] So this is
what she looked like
510
00:31:00,075 --> 00:31:02,208
when she was 17.
511
00:31:03,035 --> 00:31:04,471
This is 1971...
512
00:31:04,601 --> 00:31:06,516
[Jillian] Mm.
513
00:31:06,647 --> 00:31:07,885
Five years before I was born.
514
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:09,215
Wow.
515
00:31:09,345 --> 00:31:11,217
[Pearl] I know.
516
00:31:11,347 --> 00:31:13,610
Look at her, so cute
in her bikini and
517
00:31:13,741 --> 00:31:15,830
just feeding those
birds like that.
518
00:31:15,961 --> 00:31:17,788
She was so happy.
519
00:31:17,963 --> 00:31:20,400
♪
520
00:31:20,530 --> 00:31:23,664
This is the only
photograph that I have
521
00:31:23,794 --> 00:31:25,753
of my mother holding me.
522
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,799
This is the most
precious photograph
523
00:31:28,887 --> 00:31:30,453
in my entire life.
524
00:31:30,584 --> 00:31:33,456
She looks really proud.
525
00:31:34,588 --> 00:31:36,982
[Pearl] I was with my
mother for a whole year
526
00:31:37,069 --> 00:31:40,550
before, um, she got arrested
527
00:31:40,681 --> 00:31:43,684
and Social Services said
528
00:31:43,771 --> 00:31:47,862
that, um, she wasn't
fit to take care of me
529
00:31:47,949 --> 00:31:50,734
because of the life
that she'd been living,
530
00:31:50,865 --> 00:31:52,998
because of the prostitution.
531
00:31:53,172 --> 00:31:54,608
♪
532
00:31:54,738 --> 00:31:57,741
So I was adopted
533
00:31:57,872 --> 00:32:01,441
by my grandmother
and grandfather.
534
00:32:01,571 --> 00:32:05,314
But my mother did not
ever wanna lose me.
535
00:32:06,837 --> 00:32:09,710
[eerie music]
536
00:32:09,797 --> 00:32:12,539
♪
537
00:32:12,669 --> 00:32:13,888
[sighing] Oh.
538
00:32:14,019 --> 00:32:17,500
Eighth grade school year,
539
00:32:17,631 --> 00:32:20,982
I was, uh, hanging my clothes
540
00:32:21,113 --> 00:32:23,289
up to dry on the porch,
541
00:32:23,419 --> 00:32:25,160
and the police
542
00:32:25,291 --> 00:32:28,076
show up on the-on the doorstep,
543
00:32:28,207 --> 00:32:31,253
and Grandmother was like,
544
00:32:31,384 --> 00:32:32,665
"Oh, go to your room.
Go to your room."
545
00:32:32,689 --> 00:32:33,734
I was like...
546
00:32:33,864 --> 00:32:35,388
You know, I just kind of hid.
547
00:32:35,475 --> 00:32:37,477
I just kind of hid and listened.
548
00:32:37,607 --> 00:32:39,044
They found out that
she was just...
549
00:32:39,174 --> 00:32:42,047
She was murdered in Los Angeles.
550
00:32:42,134 --> 00:32:43,744
They didn't catch the person
551
00:32:43,874 --> 00:32:45,528
or anything.
552
00:32:45,659 --> 00:32:47,400
My mother was gone,
553
00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:50,185
and all my chances of
ever being with her again
554
00:32:50,272 --> 00:32:51,447
completely vanished.
555
00:32:53,884 --> 00:32:56,322
[sighs]
556
00:32:56,452 --> 00:32:57,801
[dramatic music]
557
00:32:57,932 --> 00:32:59,281
[news reporter]
Investigators say
558
00:32:59,412 --> 00:33:01,240
this is the face
of a serial killer,
559
00:33:01,370 --> 00:33:03,807
one who's managed to
elude capture for years.
560
00:33:03,894 --> 00:33:05,722
[news reporter]
Seventy-two-year-old
561
00:33:05,853 --> 00:33:07,613
Samuel Little is now charged
with three cold case murders
562
00:33:07,637 --> 00:33:09,509
in California.
563
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,294
[Pearl] I could never
forget that moment
564
00:33:12,425 --> 00:33:14,557
when, in 2014,
565
00:33:14,644 --> 00:33:16,472
I received a phone call
566
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,127
from a detective in Los Angeles,
567
00:33:19,258 --> 00:33:20,999
Mitzi Roberts.
568
00:33:21,129 --> 00:33:23,653
And I said, um, "You
caught the guy."
569
00:33:23,784 --> 00:33:26,091
She's like, "Yeah.
We caught the guy."
570
00:33:26,221 --> 00:33:28,571
He's definitely the one that
571
00:33:28,702 --> 00:33:30,051
not only murdered my mother,
572
00:33:30,138 --> 00:33:33,228
but there is a
couple other ladies.
573
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:35,361
[news reporter] The
victims were all mothers
574
00:33:35,491 --> 00:33:38,233
leading what police call
high-risk lifestyles.
575
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,680
[Mitzi] He just
seemed to always be
576
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,541
one step ahead of the law.
577
00:33:41,671 --> 00:33:43,282
Well, I know for
sure it's-it's...
578
00:33:43,412 --> 00:33:45,086
That's not the way it's
gonna be this time.
579
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:47,982
♪
580
00:33:51,638 --> 00:33:54,510
The months in between
arrest and trial
581
00:33:54,641 --> 00:33:58,688
are just filled with
preparing the best case
582
00:33:58,819 --> 00:34:02,431
for the murders
of Audrey Nelson,
583
00:34:02,562 --> 00:34:06,000
Guadalupe Apodaca,
584
00:34:06,131 --> 00:34:08,350
and Carol Alford
585
00:34:08,481 --> 00:34:10,831
and not just rely on the DNA
586
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,702
but to put together a case
587
00:34:12,833 --> 00:34:15,357
that was so strong
588
00:34:15,487 --> 00:34:18,186
that we would leave
the jury [laughs]
589
00:34:18,317 --> 00:34:21,320
with no other choice
but conviction.
590
00:34:21,449 --> 00:34:25,541
[Beth] No one's ever attempted
to put it all together before,
591
00:34:25,672 --> 00:34:29,067
and so we were very immersed in
592
00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:31,112
all of his prior crimes,
593
00:34:31,243 --> 00:34:35,246
reviewing files and
talking to law enforcement,
594
00:34:35,377 --> 00:34:38,206
uh, and prosecutors
across the country
595
00:34:38,293 --> 00:34:40,817
and digging up surviving victims
596
00:34:40,947 --> 00:34:43,081
so that the jury had as
many of those puzzle pieces
597
00:34:43,210 --> 00:34:43,994
as they could.
598
00:34:44,168 --> 00:34:46,909
♪
599
00:34:47,041 --> 00:34:48,365
[Wayne] I remember
that I got the call
600
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:50,436
from LAPD Homicide.
601
00:34:50,565 --> 00:34:52,264
They said, "Detective
Sergeant Spees?"
602
00:34:52,393 --> 00:34:56,442
And said, uh, "Thirty years ago,
603
00:34:56,572 --> 00:34:58,835
you arrested a guy for rape."
604
00:34:58,922 --> 00:35:01,447
And I said, "Sam Little."
605
00:35:01,577 --> 00:35:02,902
She said, "Do you
remember the case?"
606
00:35:02,926 --> 00:35:04,754
And I said, "Absolutely.
607
00:35:04,885 --> 00:35:07,975
The Laurie Barros and
Tonya Jackson case."
608
00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:10,934
She says, "Well, we have
him on three homicides,"
609
00:35:11,065 --> 00:35:13,850
and I was-I was, you
know, blown away.
610
00:35:13,981 --> 00:35:16,157
And she goes, "And we
made him on the DNA,
611
00:35:16,288 --> 00:35:18,116
the DNA that you
guys collected."
612
00:35:18,246 --> 00:35:21,162
She was a great detective,
uh, Mitzi Roberts,
613
00:35:21,249 --> 00:35:22,642
and, uh, you know, she said,
614
00:35:22,729 --> 00:35:23,643
"We're gonna-we're
gonna have you testify."
615
00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:26,124
♪
616
00:35:26,254 --> 00:35:27,492
[Mitzi] We went
around, and we talked
617
00:35:27,516 --> 00:35:29,518
to the surviving victims,
618
00:35:29,605 --> 00:35:33,479
um, the ones that
wanted to-to talk,
619
00:35:33,609 --> 00:35:35,916
like Laurie, the
surviving victim
620
00:35:36,046 --> 00:35:39,267
from the San Diego attack
who was left for dead.
621
00:35:39,441 --> 00:35:41,313
♪
622
00:35:41,443 --> 00:35:42,803
[Laurie] When I
got that phone call
623
00:35:42,923 --> 00:35:45,926
saying, "We need
you to testify,"
624
00:35:46,056 --> 00:35:48,624
I think all the air
was sucked out of me.
625
00:35:48,755 --> 00:35:50,887
[sighs]
626
00:35:51,018 --> 00:35:54,587
I had no idea that he served
only two and a half years
627
00:35:54,717 --> 00:35:57,720
for two attempted
murders, rapes...
628
00:35:57,851 --> 00:36:01,159
Very sadistic ones, no less...
629
00:36:01,289 --> 00:36:02,551
Until Mitzi told me.
630
00:36:02,725 --> 00:36:04,640
♪
631
00:36:04,771 --> 00:36:06,860
I lost it.
632
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:08,514
I broke down,
633
00:36:08,601 --> 00:36:11,778
and I-I... I was
scared all over again.
634
00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:14,172
I-I...
635
00:36:14,302 --> 00:36:16,652
I didn't wanna do it.
636
00:36:16,783 --> 00:36:17,934
[Mitzi] God, I was
on the phone with her
637
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:18,959
for probably three hours,
638
00:36:19,089 --> 00:36:20,169
just talking her through it
639
00:36:20,221 --> 00:36:22,005
and trying to convince her
640
00:36:22,136 --> 00:36:23,920
that I know it seems so hard now
641
00:36:24,051 --> 00:36:26,532
but that-that she
had to trust us.
642
00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:29,404
"This is your chance
to take back the power
643
00:36:29,535 --> 00:36:31,014
"and to tell your story.
644
00:36:31,145 --> 00:36:32,799
This is for you too."
645
00:36:32,929 --> 00:36:35,758
We, for whatever
reason as a society,
646
00:36:35,889 --> 00:36:38,848
treat victims of sexual assault
647
00:36:38,979 --> 00:36:41,416
different than we treat
victims of any other crime.
648
00:36:41,547 --> 00:36:44,419
Sexual assault victims
tend to be treated
649
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:47,074
on the stand like they're liars,
650
00:36:47,205 --> 00:36:49,859
but it's not gonna
happen on this case.
651
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:52,122
[desolate music]
652
00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,560
Surviving victims
on cases like this,
653
00:36:54,647 --> 00:36:57,084
they are gold.
654
00:36:57,171 --> 00:37:01,436
They are the... linchpin
655
00:37:01,567 --> 00:37:05,005
that allows a jury to
actually understand
656
00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:06,920
what happened to
all of these women
657
00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:08,487
who can no longer speak
658
00:37:08,617 --> 00:37:10,402
because they're in their graves.
659
00:37:10,576 --> 00:37:13,492
♪
660
00:37:18,192 --> 00:37:20,039
[Darren] The prosecutor,
who was Beth Silverman,
661
00:37:20,063 --> 00:37:21,108
she calls me.
662
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,544
She wanted to be sure
663
00:37:22,675 --> 00:37:24,235
she brought every
witness she could get.
664
00:37:24,285 --> 00:37:25,634
She wanted all of us there.
665
00:37:25,765 --> 00:37:27,593
I call Leila McClain,
666
00:37:27,723 --> 00:37:30,030
and I call Hilda Nelson,
667
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,468
the two victims that survived
his attack in Pascagoula,
668
00:37:33,555 --> 00:37:35,296
and I let them know
that he's in custody,
669
00:37:35,427 --> 00:37:37,056
and they were like,
"Oh, thank you, Jesus.
670
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,169
Thank you, Jesus," and
they were all ready to go.
671
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:40,432
They were excited.
672
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:41,879
They could have
their day in court.
673
00:37:41,998 --> 00:37:44,871
♪
674
00:37:45,915 --> 00:37:48,918
[Beth] In August of 2014,
675
00:37:49,049 --> 00:37:52,226
the trial against
Sam Little began.
676
00:37:52,357 --> 00:37:54,533
He comes across
looking much different
677
00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:56,230
now that all these
decades have gone by,
678
00:37:56,361 --> 00:37:58,101
and he's sitting
in a wheelchair,
679
00:37:58,232 --> 00:37:59,929
and so one of the
pieces of evidence
680
00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:02,018
that I like to use
is photographs,
681
00:38:02,149 --> 00:38:04,934
as many photographs as
the detectives can find
682
00:38:05,021 --> 00:38:06,762
of what he looked
like at the time
683
00:38:06,893 --> 00:38:08,242
that he was sexually assaulting
684
00:38:08,373 --> 00:38:09,765
and trying to kill these women,
685
00:38:09,896 --> 00:38:11,332
as opposed to the little old man
686
00:38:11,463 --> 00:38:12,725
sitting in the wheelchair.
687
00:38:12,899 --> 00:38:14,770
♪
688
00:38:14,901 --> 00:38:16,598
The defense was
that he didn't do
689
00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:18,228
any of these crimes,
that he wasn't, uh,
690
00:38:18,252 --> 00:38:19,949
even a sex offender,
691
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,343
that he had consensual
sex with these women,
692
00:38:22,474 --> 00:38:24,171
that they were women
693
00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:25,955
who had prostituted themselves
694
00:38:26,042 --> 00:38:28,871
and probably had consensual
sex with a number of men,
695
00:38:29,002 --> 00:38:31,309
so either he's a serial killer,
696
00:38:31,439 --> 00:38:34,050
or he's just the unluckiest
guy on the-on the planet.
697
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,706
And so in the opening
statement, the jury was told
698
00:38:37,837 --> 00:38:40,709
that the surviving victims
were going to come in
699
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,624
and they were going to be able
700
00:38:42,711 --> 00:38:46,759
to establish a blueprint
for what likely happened
701
00:38:46,889 --> 00:38:49,370
to the three victims who
were murdered here in LA,
702
00:38:49,501 --> 00:38:54,027
Audrey Nelson, Carol Alford,
and Guadalupe Apodaca.
703
00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:56,377
♪
704
00:38:56,508 --> 00:38:59,467
Two separate victims from
Pascagoula, Mississippi,
705
00:38:59,598 --> 00:39:00,860
Leila and Hilda,
706
00:39:00,990 --> 00:39:02,862
who were survivors,
707
00:39:02,992 --> 00:39:06,822
told stories that were
strikingly similar.
708
00:39:06,909 --> 00:39:09,347
[Darren] Leila
McClain tells a story
709
00:39:09,434 --> 00:39:12,219
to where she is actually
in a bar in Carver Village
710
00:39:12,306 --> 00:39:14,047
when she is approached, uh,
711
00:39:14,177 --> 00:39:16,092
and-and offered a date,
712
00:39:16,223 --> 00:39:18,356
and she gets in the car
713
00:39:18,486 --> 00:39:20,140
with Sam Little.
714
00:39:20,270 --> 00:39:22,185
[eerie music]
715
00:39:22,316 --> 00:39:25,493
Here are the...
trial transcripts
716
00:39:25,624 --> 00:39:26,929
from Los Angeles.
717
00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:30,324
These are all
4,000-something pages
718
00:39:30,455 --> 00:39:31,455
of the trial.
719
00:39:33,066 --> 00:39:35,155
Let me find Leila's testimony.
720
00:39:35,329 --> 00:39:37,505
♪
721
00:39:37,636 --> 00:39:39,246
"As we was going
around the corner,
722
00:39:39,377 --> 00:39:41,683
"I say, 'Go back that way.'
723
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,772
"He say, 'I don't
need to turn around
724
00:39:43,859 --> 00:39:45,121
for what I want to do to you.'"
725
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,342
"And then he hit me right here
726
00:39:48,473 --> 00:39:49,778
"in between my eyes
727
00:39:49,909 --> 00:39:51,867
and then coldcocked
me behind my head."
728
00:39:53,216 --> 00:39:54,392
"So you fought back?"
729
00:39:54,522 --> 00:39:56,785
"With everything I had."
730
00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,589
"Did you think that he
was trying to kill you,
731
00:39:58,613 --> 00:39:59,832
choke you to death?"
732
00:39:59,962 --> 00:40:02,487
"Definitely. He was
going to kill me."
733
00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:07,796
[Mitzi] When it came time for
fireball Leila to identify
734
00:40:07,883 --> 00:40:10,059
the person you're
testifying about in court,
735
00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:12,105
she turns and says,
736
00:40:12,235 --> 00:40:13,759
"Yeah, it's that man over there,
737
00:40:13,889 --> 00:40:15,630
"only he's uglier now." [laughs]
738
00:40:15,761 --> 00:40:18,067
And I just thought
that was the greatest.
739
00:40:18,198 --> 00:40:20,592
So, um... and Sam didn't
like that too much.
740
00:40:20,722 --> 00:40:22,376
[melancholy music]
741
00:40:22,463 --> 00:40:24,552
[Darren] What I do find
ironic about all this
742
00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:27,076
is that these people
that we looked at
743
00:40:27,207 --> 00:40:31,864
as maybe not really
reliable witnesses
744
00:40:31,994 --> 00:40:33,474
in 1982
745
00:40:33,605 --> 00:40:36,477
were heroes and stars
746
00:40:36,564 --> 00:40:39,654
in California in 2014
747
00:40:39,785 --> 00:40:42,048
when they helped
prosecute Sam Little.
748
00:40:42,222 --> 00:40:45,094
♪
749
00:40:45,225 --> 00:40:47,140
[Mitzi] When Laurie
got to court,
750
00:40:47,227 --> 00:40:48,794
it hit her finally
751
00:40:48,924 --> 00:40:50,404
that this was real
752
00:40:50,535 --> 00:40:51,990
and that she was gonna
have to face this guy.
753
00:40:52,014 --> 00:40:56,323
She went into a
complete panic attack.
754
00:40:56,497 --> 00:40:58,891
♪
755
00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:01,502
[Laurie] Just really triggered
by the courtroom itself,
756
00:41:01,589 --> 00:41:03,069
you know, the building,
757
00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:04,723
just think-bringing
memories back
758
00:41:04,853 --> 00:41:07,073
and a feeling like I'm
not gonna be believed
759
00:41:07,203 --> 00:41:09,249
and I'm gonna be
judged and I'm...
760
00:41:09,379 --> 00:41:11,643
Why am I electing to do
this to myself again?
761
00:41:11,817 --> 00:41:15,037
♪
762
00:41:15,168 --> 00:41:17,387
[Mitzi] We just told her,
"This is your conviction,
763
00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:20,739
what you should've gotten
so many years ago,"
764
00:41:20,869 --> 00:41:23,306
and then she got it
together, and she was so good
765
00:41:23,437 --> 00:41:24,656
and so powerful.
766
00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:28,486
[Laurie] And I looked
him in the face
767
00:41:28,616 --> 00:41:30,400
multiple times.
768
00:41:30,531 --> 00:41:31,924
"You don't win."
769
00:41:32,011 --> 00:41:34,143
♪
770
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:36,668
[Beth] One thing I noticed
about the surviving victims
771
00:41:36,798 --> 00:41:39,148
was that the longer
they sat on the stand,
772
00:41:39,279 --> 00:41:41,716
the more comfortable they became
773
00:41:41,803 --> 00:41:44,110
trying to show Sam Little
774
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,982
that they were stronger than him
775
00:41:47,113 --> 00:41:51,247
and that they had risen above
what he had done to them.
776
00:41:55,338 --> 00:41:56,338
[Jillian] Mm-hmm.
777
00:42:17,143 --> 00:42:18,143
[Sam laughs]
778
00:42:20,407 --> 00:42:22,061
[Jillian] Yeah, yeah.
779
00:42:22,148 --> 00:42:24,280
Well, she believes
that was the truth.
780
00:42:24,454 --> 00:42:26,456
♪
781
00:42:26,587 --> 00:42:28,147
[Mitzi] It was a bunch
of powerful women
782
00:42:28,197 --> 00:42:30,373
that took him down.
783
00:42:30,460 --> 00:42:32,419
That's something that
Sam never had to deal...
784
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:36,554
He was used to
overpowering these women
785
00:42:36,684 --> 00:42:38,947
and then getting away with
it and getting away with it,
786
00:42:39,078 --> 00:42:40,775
and I really think
he thought again,
787
00:42:40,906 --> 00:42:42,603
he was gonna get away
with it this time.
788
00:42:42,734 --> 00:42:45,650
But, you know, the jig is up,
789
00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:47,216
as they say.
790
00:42:47,303 --> 00:42:49,218
♪
791
00:43:01,622 --> 00:43:04,103
[Jillian] She did a hell-
she did a hell of a job.
792
00:43:04,233 --> 00:43:05,844
She really did. You
got to admit it.
793
00:43:07,628 --> 00:43:10,544
♪
794
00:43:12,633 --> 00:43:17,116
[Mitzi] September 2, 2014,
795
00:43:17,246 --> 00:43:19,466
the verdict was read,
and Sam was convicted
796
00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:21,990
of all three counts of
murder, first degree.
797
00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:25,080
♪
798
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:28,712
[news reporter] The
relatives of Little's victims
799
00:43:28,736 --> 00:43:31,043
spoke out during today's
sentencing hearing.
800
00:43:31,173 --> 00:43:33,828
Afterwards, they gathered
in a courthouse hallway,
801
00:43:33,959 --> 00:43:36,657
total strangers brought
together by tragedy.
802
00:43:36,788 --> 00:43:38,833
I was 13 when I had to bury her.
803
00:43:38,964 --> 00:43:40,835
I had to say goodbye.
804
00:43:40,966 --> 00:43:42,596
[news reporter] Pearl Unique
Nelson says her mother
805
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,622
was just starting to get
her life back together
806
00:43:44,709 --> 00:43:46,754
when she was murdered in 1989.
807
00:43:46,885 --> 00:43:49,017
We got him. He's gone.
808
00:43:49,148 --> 00:43:50,845
He can't hurt anybody now.
809
00:43:50,932 --> 00:43:52,455
♪
810
00:43:52,586 --> 00:43:54,283
I think when Samuel Little knew,
811
00:43:54,414 --> 00:43:57,373
"The show is over, and
now I'm going to jail,"
812
00:43:57,460 --> 00:44:00,420
he was just more dark and angry.
813
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:02,378
His eyes changed.
814
00:44:02,509 --> 00:44:05,512
Could never forget that moment.
815
00:44:05,643 --> 00:44:07,340
[news reporter]
Seventy-four-year-old
816
00:44:07,427 --> 00:44:09,144
Samuel Little swore at
the victims' relatives
817
00:44:09,168 --> 00:44:10,560
and shouted in the courtroom
818
00:44:10,691 --> 00:44:12,301
during the sentencing hearing,
819
00:44:12,432 --> 00:44:13,952
denying that he
committed the killings.
820
00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:19,657
I didn't do it.
821
00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:21,875
[bleep].
822
00:44:25,271 --> 00:44:26,533
[bleep].
823
00:44:31,799 --> 00:44:33,671
[judge] Mr. Little,
that's enough.
824
00:44:39,241 --> 00:44:40,784
[news reporter] Tony
Zambrano is talking
825
00:44:40,808 --> 00:44:43,202
about his mother,
Guadalupe Apodaca.
826
00:44:43,289 --> 00:44:45,726
In this photo, Tony
is seen smiling,
827
00:44:45,813 --> 00:44:48,163
sitting alongside his
brother and mother,
828
00:44:48,294 --> 00:44:50,688
who was murdered
by Little in 1989.
829
00:44:50,775 --> 00:44:52,124
It was a big mystery.
830
00:44:52,254 --> 00:44:53,318
You know, um, you
know, that's-that's...
831
00:44:53,342 --> 00:44:54,622
That was... been the worst part,
832
00:44:54,735 --> 00:44:56,563
not knowing, you
know, who did it.
833
00:44:56,694 --> 00:44:58,149
If you have a mom out there,
you know, call her up,
834
00:44:58,173 --> 00:44:59,697
and, you know, tell
her you love her,
835
00:44:59,827 --> 00:45:01,467
because you might not
have another chance.
836
00:45:02,656 --> 00:45:04,658
[Mitzi] Then it was
Sam's turn to speak,
837
00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:06,965
and he gave some spiel
838
00:45:07,095 --> 00:45:10,185
about how it was a
modern-day lynching.
839
00:45:10,316 --> 00:45:14,146
This conviction was
brought on by lies
840
00:45:14,276 --> 00:45:17,410
and liars coached by liars.
841
00:45:17,497 --> 00:45:19,499
[Mitzi] He said Beth
and I, you know,
842
00:45:19,629 --> 00:45:23,459
made up lies and the
victims are all liars.
843
00:45:23,546 --> 00:45:26,245
The obsession of labeling
me as a serial killer
844
00:45:26,375 --> 00:45:29,074
without any proof, any bodies,
845
00:45:29,204 --> 00:45:30,815
was a legal lynching.
846
00:45:30,945 --> 00:45:32,642
[dramatic music]
847
00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:34,359
[Mitzi] The judge sentenced
him to the maximum,
848
00:45:34,383 --> 00:45:35,733
which was three life sentences
849
00:45:35,863 --> 00:45:37,430
with no possibility of parole.
850
00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:40,607
[Jillian] Even after Sam Little
851
00:45:40,738 --> 00:45:42,348
was finally convicted
852
00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:45,917
of three murders in 2014,
853
00:45:46,047 --> 00:45:50,878
he... vehemently denied
854
00:45:51,009 --> 00:45:54,273
he committed these crimes
855
00:45:54,403 --> 00:45:58,059
until 2018, when he
began confessing to me.
856
00:45:59,495 --> 00:46:01,715
Sam still does go on these rants
857
00:46:01,846 --> 00:46:03,673
about how he was framed.
858
00:46:03,804 --> 00:46:06,633
"DNA doesn't prove anything.
Just proved that I was there."
859
00:46:06,764 --> 00:46:08,983
And I'm like, "But you did it!"
860
00:46:09,114 --> 00:46:11,333
"Just say you did it.
861
00:46:11,464 --> 00:46:13,161
"Just admit it.
862
00:46:13,292 --> 00:46:14,641
"Just say you're guilty,
863
00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:17,949
'cause you are guilty."
864
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:19,298
And he did.
865
00:46:19,472 --> 00:46:21,039
♪
866
00:46:21,169 --> 00:46:22,605
I feel like we haven't talked
867
00:46:22,736 --> 00:46:25,739
about the victims
868
00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:27,697
that you were convicted for.
869
00:46:27,828 --> 00:46:29,656
I wanna hear about Audrey.
870
00:46:29,787 --> 00:46:32,093
I wanna hear about Lupe.
871
00:46:32,224 --> 00:46:35,618
I want you to walk me
through them, one by one.
872
00:46:39,361 --> 00:46:40,361
[Jillian] That's right.
873
00:46:50,024 --> 00:46:51,784
[Jillian] Do you know
she was an artist, too,
874
00:46:51,896 --> 00:46:52,896
like you?
875
00:46:57,031 --> 00:46:59,512
♪
876
00:46:59,642 --> 00:47:02,602
Did you ever ask
Sam about Audrey?
877
00:47:02,732 --> 00:47:03,821
I did.
878
00:47:03,951 --> 00:47:05,151
Did he even remember that one?
879
00:47:05,257 --> 00:47:06,649
Yes.
880
00:47:06,736 --> 00:47:10,088
He remembered, um... [sighs]
881
00:47:10,218 --> 00:47:11,654
How much do you wanna know?
882
00:47:11,785 --> 00:47:13,308
Just tell me.
883
00:47:13,439 --> 00:47:15,702
So she was staying at a hotel
884
00:47:15,833 --> 00:47:17,704
in downtown LA.
885
00:47:17,791 --> 00:47:20,446
She was walking down the street.
886
00:47:20,576 --> 00:47:23,536
He pulled up, picked her up,
887
00:47:23,666 --> 00:47:25,843
and they went and
got some heroin,
888
00:47:25,973 --> 00:47:29,498
they got high in
the back of his car,
889
00:47:29,629 --> 00:47:30,848
and that he strangled her
890
00:47:30,978 --> 00:47:33,241
on the floor of the car,
891
00:47:33,372 --> 00:47:35,504
um, and it was right there
892
00:47:35,635 --> 00:47:38,420
in the... parking lot
893
00:47:38,551 --> 00:47:40,422
where he left her.
894
00:47:40,509 --> 00:47:45,210
Um, he half picked her
up, half dragged her,
895
00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:46,776
uh, out of the car
896
00:47:46,907 --> 00:47:49,910
and put her in the-in
the dumpster...
897
00:47:50,041 --> 00:47:52,217
- Mm-hmm.
- Where she was left,
898
00:47:52,347 --> 00:47:53,435
and you've seen her.
899
00:47:53,566 --> 00:47:55,089
Yes.
900
00:47:55,176 --> 00:47:57,700
No, nothing's pretty
about what he does.
901
00:47:57,831 --> 00:47:59,311
I just feel like, you know,
902
00:47:59,441 --> 00:48:01,487
that Sam Little... just, he
903
00:48:01,617 --> 00:48:03,184
he was kind of just jonesing
904
00:48:03,315 --> 00:48:05,708
for-for a quick kill.
905
00:48:05,839 --> 00:48:08,102
He just saw someone.
906
00:48:08,233 --> 00:48:09,625
Unfortunately, it was her.
907
00:48:09,712 --> 00:48:11,453
I think that's correct,
908
00:48:11,584 --> 00:48:14,848
that it was more of a chance...
909
00:48:14,979 --> 00:48:16,806
- Yeah, it wasn't...
- encounter.
910
00:48:16,937 --> 00:48:19,157
Yeah.
911
00:48:19,287 --> 00:48:21,289
She fought. She-she fought.
912
00:48:21,376 --> 00:48:22,421
She fought him.
913
00:48:22,551 --> 00:48:25,076
She was kicking and screaming,
914
00:48:25,206 --> 00:48:27,165
and you could tell
by all the bruises,
915
00:48:27,252 --> 00:48:29,689
and he was dragging her.
916
00:48:29,819 --> 00:48:31,647
Sh-she was fighting
for her life.
917
00:48:31,821 --> 00:48:33,954
♪
918
00:48:34,085 --> 00:48:36,087
Knowing what happened, I feel
919
00:48:36,217 --> 00:48:37,827
like, uh, the chapter
920
00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:40,047
has been closed on a book.
921
00:48:42,049 --> 00:48:45,748
I feel that now
my mother, Audrey,
922
00:48:45,835 --> 00:48:48,360
can really rest in peace.
923
00:48:48,534 --> 00:48:51,450
♪
924
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:57,282
[Jillian] This story,
Audrey's story,
925
00:48:57,412 --> 00:49:00,546
will never leave me.
926
00:49:00,676 --> 00:49:04,854
After seeing the Audrey
Nelson crime scene photos,
927
00:49:04,985 --> 00:49:07,292
I kept having these dreams
928
00:49:07,422 --> 00:49:11,078
that my kids were in a dumpster,
929
00:49:11,209 --> 00:49:12,645
that my dogs were in a dumpster.
930
00:49:12,775 --> 00:49:15,126
Like, I just kept
having these dreams that
931
00:49:15,256 --> 00:49:16,823
my husband would
just be sobbing.
932
00:49:16,954 --> 00:49:18,912
[indistinct chatter]
933
00:49:19,043 --> 00:49:21,132
- Catch!
- Oh, game over!
934
00:49:22,916 --> 00:49:24,787
[Jillian] The Sam Little project
935
00:49:24,918 --> 00:49:26,180
wears on you.
936
00:49:26,267 --> 00:49:27,660
It wears on the relationship.
937
00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:29,444
It wears on the family.
938
00:49:29,575 --> 00:49:31,015
[operator] call
from a telephone...
939
00:49:31,055 --> 00:49:32,926
call from a telephone number...
940
00:49:33,057 --> 00:49:36,495
[Jillian] The
repetitiveness of it,
941
00:49:36,625 --> 00:49:38,976
the consistent demands
942
00:49:39,106 --> 00:49:42,022
of a sociopath
943
00:49:42,153 --> 00:49:44,503
who, by definition,
944
00:49:44,633 --> 00:49:48,550
is a psychic vampire,
945
00:49:48,637 --> 00:49:51,379
but I've always tried to provide
946
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:54,730
a safe space for my children
947
00:49:54,817 --> 00:49:56,341
and my family
948
00:49:56,471 --> 00:49:58,560
around this work,
949
00:49:58,647 --> 00:50:00,823
and there's a lot to negotiate.
950
00:50:02,651 --> 00:50:04,436
So, T, how do you feel
951
00:50:04,566 --> 00:50:06,916
about what I'm writing
about right now?
952
00:50:07,047 --> 00:50:08,788
[Tariku] It's kind of cool.
953
00:50:08,918 --> 00:50:10,529
What's cool about it?
954
00:50:10,659 --> 00:50:12,009
I like stories.
955
00:50:12,139 --> 00:50:13,508
[Jillian] You think
the story about Sam
956
00:50:13,532 --> 00:50:14,794
is a pretty good story?
957
00:50:14,924 --> 00:50:16,230
[Tariku] Yeah.
958
00:50:16,361 --> 00:50:18,145
You think it has a
good villain in it?
959
00:50:18,276 --> 00:50:19,929
Well
960
00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:22,628
he's kind of too villainous
961
00:50:22,758 --> 00:50:25,370
and, like, he just doesn't care
962
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:26,936
who dies and who lives.
963
00:50:27,067 --> 00:50:30,114
Yeah, he doesn't really
have empathy, right?
964
00:50:31,028 --> 00:50:33,900
My 12-year-old is
really curious,
965
00:50:34,031 --> 00:50:36,729
and he's really interested
in the forensics of it,
966
00:50:36,859 --> 00:50:39,514
and he's sort of a
junior detective.
967
00:50:40,776 --> 00:50:43,127
He wants to understand DNA.
He wants to talk about it.
968
00:50:45,085 --> 00:50:46,826
Now, my eight-year-old...
969
00:50:46,913 --> 00:50:48,175
You win.
970
00:50:48,306 --> 00:50:50,264
- You get your hugs later.
- All right.
971
00:50:50,395 --> 00:50:52,571
I just try to keep him
away as much as I can,
972
00:50:52,701 --> 00:50:54,703
but he knows.
973
00:50:54,834 --> 00:50:56,836
[sighs]
974
00:50:57,837 --> 00:51:00,796
Do you feel like, um,
975
00:51:00,927 --> 00:51:04,278
my working on this story has
976
00:51:04,365 --> 00:51:07,890
affected our-our
family and our lives?
977
00:51:08,021 --> 00:51:11,198
Because... dealing with
someone without empathy
978
00:51:11,329 --> 00:51:12,610
- can be very...
- [Tariku] Mm-hmm.
979
00:51:12,634 --> 00:51:14,375
- Difficult.
- [Tariku] Yeah.
980
00:51:14,506 --> 00:51:16,464
How do you feel like
it's affected us?
981
00:51:16,551 --> 00:51:19,467
Because you can't, like...
982
00:51:19,598 --> 00:51:23,341
You can't be mad at him.
983
00:51:23,471 --> 00:51:25,299
Well, you can be mad
at him, but, like,
984
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:27,997
you can't, like,
show your anger.
985
00:51:28,085 --> 00:51:32,219
Otherwise, you can't get
the stuff that you need.
986
00:51:32,350 --> 00:51:36,789
And... but then you have...
You let it out at home.
987
00:51:38,399 --> 00:51:41,054
But if you could let it out,
988
00:51:41,185 --> 00:51:43,404
I bet it would be
a different story
989
00:51:43,535 --> 00:51:46,625
and... all this
would be different.
990
00:51:46,755 --> 00:51:48,801
[Scott] I'm not
resenting the project.
991
00:51:48,931 --> 00:51:51,369
I'm not resenting anyone
992
00:51:51,499 --> 00:51:53,936
other than probably Sam himself,
993
00:51:54,067 --> 00:51:56,461
and, uh, I guess
994
00:51:56,591 --> 00:51:59,420
that it-it feels
important and necessary,
995
00:51:59,551 --> 00:52:01,335
but I don't want our kids
996
00:52:01,466 --> 00:52:02,834
really being exposed
to it that much.
997
00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:04,599
♪
998
00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:06,471
And there's times
where I'm like,
999
00:52:06,601 --> 00:52:08,821
"I just can't hear
any more about this."
1000
00:52:08,908 --> 00:52:10,779
♪
1001
00:52:10,866 --> 00:52:13,217
So right now, we
figured out a way
1002
00:52:13,347 --> 00:52:14,696
where it's just like, "Listen",
1003
00:52:14,827 --> 00:52:16,394
"y-just go up and work.
1004
00:52:16,481 --> 00:52:19,310
"Can't come down here
and-and talk about this
1005
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,313
in this kind of space we're
in with the kids and stuff."
1006
00:52:22,487 --> 00:52:24,706
♪
1007
00:52:24,793 --> 00:52:26,578
I have-I have been
a little angry.
1008
00:52:26,708 --> 00:52:27,709
[Tariku] Mm.
1009
00:52:31,626 --> 00:52:32,627
I'm sorry.
1010
00:52:32,758 --> 00:52:34,020
It's okay.
1011
00:52:34,151 --> 00:52:35,587
[melancholy music]
1012
00:52:35,674 --> 00:52:38,067
- Yeah.
- I'm not angry at you.
1013
00:52:38,198 --> 00:52:40,244
- I know.
- You gave me a great manicure.
1014
00:52:41,810 --> 00:52:43,682
Wanna do another coat?
1015
00:52:43,856 --> 00:52:46,380
♪
1016
00:52:46,511 --> 00:52:47,792
[Scott] I've always
had a-a feeling
1017
00:52:47,816 --> 00:52:49,688
that we're drawn into things
1018
00:52:49,818 --> 00:52:52,256
for a reason, and
1019
00:52:52,386 --> 00:52:54,867
these victims' stories
need to be told,
1020
00:52:54,997 --> 00:52:58,000
and... it's really,
really important to her,
1021
00:52:58,131 --> 00:53:02,004
and I feel it's-it's important
to the souls of these
1022
00:53:02,135 --> 00:53:03,441
people.
1023
00:53:03,615 --> 00:53:06,661
♪
1024
00:53:06,792 --> 00:53:09,098
[Jillian] I believe
in the project,
1025
00:53:09,229 --> 00:53:10,839
and I-I believe in the case,
1026
00:53:10,970 --> 00:53:13,494
and I-I wound up
in the middle of it
1027
00:53:13,625 --> 00:53:15,975
before I even understood
1028
00:53:16,062 --> 00:53:17,237
what it was.
1029
00:53:17,411 --> 00:53:19,544
♪
1030
00:53:19,674 --> 00:53:22,242
It's taken its toll
1031
00:53:22,329 --> 00:53:24,853
on myself and my family.
1032
00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:27,769
[disquieting music]
1033
00:53:27,943 --> 00:53:31,120
♪
1034
00:53:32,034 --> 00:53:36,561
I never expected to
be solving cold cases,
1035
00:53:36,691 --> 00:53:41,435
but it is a mission for me now.
1036
00:53:41,522 --> 00:53:43,611
I have a compulsion
1037
00:53:43,742 --> 00:53:47,354
or an obsession
1038
00:53:47,485 --> 00:53:50,749
to bring justice
to these victims...
1039
00:53:50,879 --> 00:53:51,880
Oh, yeah, look at that.
1040
00:53:52,011 --> 00:53:53,926
Before he dies,
1041
00:53:54,056 --> 00:53:58,713
because so many of
these mysteries,
1042
00:53:58,844 --> 00:54:00,802
so many of these Jane Does,
1043
00:54:00,933 --> 00:54:01,977
die with him.
1044
00:54:02,151 --> 00:54:05,024
♪
71220
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