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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,200 Okay, nice and simple. 2 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,600 Let me tell you what happened, everything I can remember, in order. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,040 Then when I'm done 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,880 if there's anything you want to ask I'll do my best to answer. 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,000 How does that sound? 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,760 So, Friday a week ago, me and the team, we go for drinks at the Cabin. 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,560 That's the, uh, the pub near Latimer Road. 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,880 The one that stays open late on a Friday and Saturday, turns into a bit of a club. 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,040 So that's, uh, that's me, Andy, 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,920 that's… that's Andrew Flanagan from Finance, 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,240 and then my sales team, that's, uh… 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,960 Kelly, Sanjay, and then, you know… 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,280 Sarah. 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,000 As in Sarah Macklin. 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560 I get the first round, my way of marking the end of the week. 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,240 We drink those, that's the rule, 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,160 and then whoever wants to stay stays, and whoever wants to go, they can go. 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,200 It's the same every Friday. Nobody is forced to do anything. 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,120 And just after nine, uh, 20 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,120 Sanjay and Kelly go home, separately. 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,760 So that leaves me, Andy and Sarah. Yes? 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,680 You know, we're still there, the three of us, when the club bit starts. 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Whenever that starts, um… 24 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,800 Midnight, something like that. 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,280 And this probably doesn't help me but it's true. 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,320 We're all a bit worse for wear by this point. 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,480 You know, Sarah is, definitely, 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,600 and she's new, and I'm thinking she still wants to show us she's a laugh. 29 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,320 Well, not show us she's a laugh. 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,000 Show us she's not "not a laugh" if that makes sense. 31 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,240 You know, I'm pissed, because I just am, that's allowed. 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,160 Andy's well gone, because it's… 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,800 Well, because it's Friday and because he works in Finance 34 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,960 and that's nobody's idea of a fun week. 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,600 Oh, and, um, nobody's eaten anything either. 36 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,960 So I start thinking we should leave. 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,440 All of us. 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,200 But then Sarah says she wants to stay, 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,760 and because she says that, Andy wants to stay, 40 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,000 when Andy's too drunk to stand up. 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,200 But Sarah says she wants to talk to me about how the new job's going. 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,440 One of those, um… 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,440 Serious conversations people want to have when they're drunk. You know? 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,440 Opportunities, promotions, shouting over the music. 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,040 You know, "I respect you. I want to make my way up the company." 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,280 You know, ambitious. 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 I'm like, "You're doing great." And all that. I mean, she's doing okay. 48 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,600 She's only been there a month. She made a few sales. 49 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,600 Not as much as some, but you know. 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,200 And then I look over at Andy and I decide it's time Andy went home. 51 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Not because of anything between me and her, 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,120 but because it's time we all went home. 53 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,920 So we get in a cab, uh… 54 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,600 We drop him off. He's first. 55 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,080 If you do the route from there, he is first. You can check that. 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,200 And then there's just the two of us. 57 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,480 And she wants to get another drink, to keep talking. 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,000 Her suggestion. 59 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:15,280 But that's not going to work 60 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,440 because the only place near there that's still open at that time is the Cabin, 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,200 the place we've just come from. 62 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,240 So she says… she asks… 63 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,480 Where do I live? 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,280 Can we get a drink back at mine? 65 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,600 Her idea. 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,680 "Don't get any funny ideas," she tells me. 67 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,040 Loud and clear. 68 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,440 This is platonic. That's the message. 69 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,480 And God knows why that's the message, given the reasons we're here, 70 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,200 but that was what was said at the time, and is understood by me, loud and clear. 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,560 She says she wants my advice. "Please," you know, because, uh… 72 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,960 "Because you're where I want to be in five years' time." 73 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,280 All her. 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:56,840 And so we do. 75 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,880 We drink wine at mine. 76 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Music, uh… 77 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,160 I'm on the sofa, she's on the chair. 78 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,400 She gets up, goes to the loo, 79 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,720 comes back in again, sits back down, 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,360 but now she's on the sofa next to me. 81 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,920 Close. 82 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,120 Right up here, close, in like that. 83 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,240 And I don't mind it. 84 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,720 I'll be honest. I don't mind it. 85 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,040 I mean, she's there, she's flirting, making all the running. 86 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,080 That's up to her. She's… 87 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,320 She's drinking, she's choosing the music. 88 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,480 She says she's going to kiss me because she likes this song. 89 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,280 She kisses me… You know, I kiss her back. 90 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,840 I'm not saying that I don't. 91 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,080 Then it gets to the point where she's… so pissed, 92 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,560 and the songs she's picking are so loud, and not what anyone needs to be hearing, 93 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:45,840 that I, um… 94 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,840 I book her an Uber. 95 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,840 You've got that from before. 96 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,680 I get her an Uber. It's on my account. 97 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,600 But when it comes, she won't take it. 98 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,000 Now I can't get her to go. She sits back down. 99 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160 "One for the road!" And she's fit, yes. 100 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,880 And I'm not... What's… What's the word… uninterested. 101 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,600 We end up in the bedroom and in the bed… on the bed. 102 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,000 I never said we didn't. We do it once, one and a half times. 103 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,720 Badly, probably. 104 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:23,880 But we both wanted to do it and that's the point. 105 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,680 And in the morning, she's… she's gone, which is okay. 106 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,480 We don't speak on the Saturday or the Sunday, 107 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,960 and on the Monday afternoon when she's back in the office, 108 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,320 neither of us mentions it. 109 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,000 It's not until today, that's basically a week later, 110 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,600 that your lot turn up and start with all this shit. 111 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,240 And this shit's going to ruin me. 112 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,640 Do you want to say it or shall I? 113 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,240 No, no. You can go. 114 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,320 Okay. 115 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:10,840 Alex… 116 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,320 We don't believe you. 117 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,400 Alex, there was a moment there, when you were explaining what happened, 118 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,560 when you wanted something written down. 119 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,080 It was important, I could tell. 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,400 The fact that Sarah was the one that suggested we go back to mine. 121 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,480 - That is important. - I get it. 122 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,040 - And so I did want that written down. - I get that. 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,920 - And did you? - Sorry? 124 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,400 Write it down? 125 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,840 Yeah. 126 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,200 But the point I'm making is that when you made that gesture, 127 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:31,840 you made it to me. 128 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,840 You didn't ask Tony, even though we both have notebooks. 129 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:35,760 I don't follow. 130 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,440 Even though it was Tony who you were looking at at the time. 131 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,080 - No, hang on. - You still made that gesture at me. 132 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,560 For me to write it down. 133 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,560 No, no. Are you trying to say that's because you're a woman? Is that it? 134 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,080 Because that's not what that was. 135 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,200 To be clear, there's no way you're doing that. 136 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,160 - I'm just asking. - Yeah, and don't worry, I'm answering. 137 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,056 I asked you to write it down, because I wanted it written down. 138 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,280 And I had to ask someone. It was a 50-50. 139 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,480 Maybe in your mind, I don't know, I look more, um… 140 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,040 Secretarial? 141 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,280 This is… 142 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,360 Look, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it. 143 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600 And it's not like it changes anything that's happening here. 144 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,720 It's just… well, it speaks to something. 145 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,720 How we do things, judge people without thinking… 146 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,760 Sorry, but this has nothing to do with why we're here. 147 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,960 This has everything to do with why we're here. This stuff… 148 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,800 Oh, this is where it starts. 149 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:40,000 Is that the real Natalie, or is that just a… 150 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,160 Strategy? 151 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,200 - I'm not sure. - Mmm. 152 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,600 Tony's not sure either. 153 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,200 Look. 154 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,680 Oh, he's okay. Just limbering up. 155 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,720 Okay, Alex. Listen. 156 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,480 Rather than attack your story, 157 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:03,240 turn this into an argument, us accusing you and so on, 158 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,280 we're better off telling you why we've deemed it necessary to arrest you. 159 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,720 Go through some of the details you've either chosen not to mention… 160 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,520 - I haven't "chosen" not to... - Wait. 161 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Or details you may be unaware of. 162 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,400 So that you get to see things from our side. 163 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,680 So you get the chance to explain why we've got this so very wrong. 164 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,120 Okay? 165 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,320 No point going after you for something that hasn't happened. 166 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,280 - No. - No. 167 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,080 No point taking Sarah's account as reliable 168 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,880 without interrogating it properly. 169 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,200 - No. - No. 170 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,720 No point not doing the same with your account. 171 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,880 - No. - Okay. Good. 172 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,240 Right. 173 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Before we get bogged down in all the details 174 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,320 surrounding the alleged rape itself, 175 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,520 let me start you with this one. 176 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,240 Who is Claire Hassan? 177 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,040 Sarah's mate. 178 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,840 Sarah's best mate. 179 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,920 Claire Hassan, here she is… 180 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,600 Was the one who recommended Sarah to your agency 181 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,920 because she was interested in working in property. 182 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,400 Yeah. Her… 183 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,600 Her brother worked with us once. Nyle Hassan. Why? 184 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,400 Claire Hassan… 185 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,000 Is also flatmates with Sarah. 186 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,560 Now, she and Sarah were always messaging each other. 187 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,320 Dozens of times a day, you know the kind of thing. 188 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,320 Were you aware of that? 189 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,120 Why would I be aware of that? 190 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,240 No, fair point. But that's great for us, to be honest. 191 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,680 Because by letting us have access to their phones, 192 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,600 it lets us have access to a whole wealth of data. 193 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,280 Clues, essentially. 194 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Clues to where Sarah was, 195 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,200 when Sarah was in those places… 196 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,320 And how Sarah was feeling at any given time, 197 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,360 including sixth March, 198 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,040 the night she was with you. Now… 199 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,400 If I can get my colleague Vanessa to… 200 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,240 What does that mean, do we think? 201 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,800 How would you describe that? 202 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,640 I dunno. Pissed off? Angry? 203 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,080 It's definitely a dissatisfied face, isn't it? 204 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,440 This is what Sarah sent Claire Hassan at 4:00 a.m., 205 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,840 the night she was with you. 206 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,200 I'm not denying it. 207 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,640 - Denying what? - That we were together that night. 208 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,560 - I've literally just told you. - Alex, calm down. 209 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,840 We're just getting started here. Fly off the handle, by all means. 210 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,840 But there is stuff coming up, I promise. 211 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,320 Three minutes later, even at that time, Claire writes back… 212 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,400 And then straight after, we get this. 213 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,560 - "He just kissed me." - "He just kissed me." 214 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,280 That's what it says. 215 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,960 So what does it mean? 216 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,840 It means what it says it means. "He just kissed me." 217 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:00,920 As in? 218 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,320 As in, "We went back to his place…". 219 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,360 As in, my place, which we did, I've said that more than once… 220 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,680 And she knows her best mate's wondering what's gone on between me and her, 221 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,800 me and Sarah, gossip-wise. 222 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,800 So Sarah's messaged, "He just kissed me." 223 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,280 As in… 224 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640 As in, "All that's happened is, we kissed." 225 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,120 Just a burger and no fries. Just a soft drink, not a beer. 226 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,240 Just a kiss, nothing more. 227 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,120 - So she wanted to kiss? - Yes. 228 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,760 - She was okay with that? - Yes. 229 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:35,520 So why the angry emoji? 230 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,120 You know, because… 231 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,400 Because she liked me. 232 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,080 Run that one by me again, sorry. 233 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,720 Ever since joining the company, 234 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,280 she was always, uh, hanging around. You know? 235 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,280 If we were out together, she'd be right there, 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,680 following, laughing at all my shit jokes. 237 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,520 If there was a sales meeting and I looked at her, 238 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,200 I'd notice she was already looking at me. That kind of thing. 239 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,440 She fancied you. 240 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,440 Yeah, in a word, mate, yes. 241 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,720 That's not me making out I'm good-looking. 242 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,440 I'm not bad looking, but there are better-looking guys out there, okay? 243 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,320 Most women don't fancy me as far as I know. 244 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,800 Some women do, and she was one of the ones that did, 245 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,000 and she was doing little things to let me know… 246 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,680 No. Still talking. 247 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,880 Oof. 248 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,600 When we were out together that night, 249 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,160 at the bar, 250 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,280 she got what she wanted: Me on my own, then back to my place. 251 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,760 She got a kiss, like I said, 252 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,720 and that's when at that point, I decided to leave it, 253 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,320 and that's when she sent that message. 254 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,960 She's angry. But only as a bit of a joke. 255 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,440 She's angry because all we'd done was kiss. 256 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,120 "Just kissed," when she was wanting more. 257 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:58,600 But she got more. 258 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,800 In the end. In the end she did. 259 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,680 That's the other thing. Sarah was… 260 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,760 What's the word I'm looking for? 261 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,400 Drunk? 262 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:08,800 Persuasive. 263 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240 Sarah's one of those girls who can, uh… 264 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,040 You know, get her own way. Hard to say no to. 265 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,760 Why do you think I gave her the sales job in the first place? 266 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,280 Hilarious, the way that he's talking. 267 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,680 It's as if he was the one who was forced into it. 268 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,400 Can you tell, as a woman? 269 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,080 Can you look at a guy and get a feeling he might be trouble? 270 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,600 No, of course you can't, Kyle. 271 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,120 How do you think we end up in situations like this? 272 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,800 They don't come wearing a badge. 273 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,840 There's more to it than that, though. 274 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,360 There's a man who knows what he wants. 275 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,600 Careful, Guv. 276 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,240 Alright, I haven't said it yet. 277 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,240 There's the guy who knows what he wants, right? 278 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,360 Assertive. 279 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,880 Assertiveness can be attractive. Women can be drawn to that. 280 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,640 And then there's the assertive type who is so sure of what he wants, 281 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,440 and is so used to getting it, that when it doesn't happen… 282 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,280 - He just takes it. - Yeah. 283 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,800 So we don't spot the clue, because the clue is the quality. 284 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,320 And that's how we end up with situations like this. 285 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,920 How are we doing with this medical report? 286 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,600 - Here you go, Guv. - Thank you. 287 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,400 Oh… 288 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,960 - This is all they sent us? - It's everything you asked for. 289 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,000 Diagrams on the blue pages, gynecologist's statement at the back. 290 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,560 - Needs fattening up. - As in? 291 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,440 Put it in a bigger file with a load of paper, or a heavy notebook. 292 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,720 But this is the file they sent. 293 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,560 I'm not with you. Sorry. 294 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,640 Doesn't matter what else is in the folder. 295 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,680 It's all about first impressions. 296 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,200 When you bring in a file that contains evidence, 297 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,280 you don't want to put it down like it's a flappy bit of paper. 298 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,080 You want to whack it down like it's War and bloody Peace. 299 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,200 So when do we take it through? 300 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,800 Tony wants it as soon as he opens his can of water. 301 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,920 Interview resumes at 18:52. Same persons present in the room. 302 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Let's go through Sarah's account. 303 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,320 Sarah Macklin. 304 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,600 Not that you need reminding of course, but here's one we took earlier. 305 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,840 Now, a lot of what Sarah says 306 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,840 in the statement that she gave to her OIC, 307 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,360 that's her Officer In Care… 308 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,440 It's quite faithful to yours, to be honest. 309 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Uh… 310 00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:20,960 You bought the first round, but only because you always buy the first round. 311 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,800 Flanagan's house was the first drop-off on the way back home, 312 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,880 and she willingly came back to your flat for a drink. 313 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,320 And that it was her idea. 314 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,320 And that it was her idea. Yes, she agrees. 315 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,960 "I was the one who suggested we have one more, 316 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,600 go back to his and all that." 317 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,560 And then… 318 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,640 She goes into this whole thing about blaming herself, 319 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,400 and her Officer In Care is saying how she shouldn't blame herself for anything. 320 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,720 Blah, blah, blah… 321 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,360 And… Yes. 322 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,640 "He says yes to going back to his. 323 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,120 'There's nothing to worry about, ' he says. 'My girlfriend is away.'" 324 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,200 And? 325 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,560 Nothing, only you didn't mention that bit. 326 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,360 About having a girlfriend. 327 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,520 No. 328 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,840 Why? 329 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:14,920 Because it's not relevant. 330 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,240 Because she's not going to be my girlfriend anymore. 331 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,240 Because of all this? 332 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,920 She looks nice. 333 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,920 Well, maybe you should go out with her. 334 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,080 Sorry. 335 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,920 Sarah says she was dancing. She says that you chose the music. 336 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,000 Not true. 337 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,280 "He put on 'Beautiful' by Christina Aguilera." 338 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,280 - Not true. - "Said it was one of his favorites." 339 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,880 - Definitely not true. - "In a guilty pleasure kind of way. 340 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,120 It made him think about beautiful things and what everyone was doing to the planet, 341 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,560 and sometimes it even made him cry." 342 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,480 Are you the crying type, Alex? 343 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,440 - You ever been known to shed a tear? - You need to stop that. 344 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,680 Quite right. 345 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,120 Back to the attack. 346 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,200 "I had a good time. I fancied him." 347 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,040 I snogged him. I liked it to begin with. 348 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,840 I remember thinking he was a good kisser, to be fair. 349 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,000 A sensitive kisser. 350 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,360 But what pissed me off…" This will be the angry face. 351 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,400 "…Is that he had this way about him 352 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,360 where he was expecting things to happen between us straightaway." 353 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:27,280 No. 354 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,920 "He just presumed, in that way when you bring home chips, 355 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,520 or a Chinese meal, or whatever, you eat it the second you get home. 356 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,040 Before the song was even over, 357 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,240 he was trying to put his hand down the front of my trousers." 358 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,080 That song's four minutes long. 359 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,440 - Quick work. - I did not put my hand there. 360 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,440 She put my hand there. 361 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,200 I can't believe we're even… 362 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,920 Does this stuff get played in court? 363 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,280 What makes you think this is going to court? 364 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,240 "He started doing that." 365 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,440 Trying to get his fingers in. 366 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,560 I didn't want him to go that far. 367 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,840 I could see a picture of his girlfriend on the side, 368 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,160 "she was looking at us from a photo frame." 369 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,080 Yes. That's the photo she was looking at. 370 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,120 "Staring at us like we were doing something wrong. 371 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,400 I asked him to stop it, to book me an Uber." 372 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,440 - "But the Uber never came." - It's on my phone. 373 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,560 The booking is. So is the cancellation. 374 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,480 - She asked me to cancel it. - She says it was you. 375 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,240 And no one will ever know. 376 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,200 That she was annoyed it hadn't come, the Uber, 377 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,800 so she went to the toilet and texted her mate Claire. 378 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,080 "He just kissed me," angry face, all of that. 379 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,320 "And when I came out he said it was time to go hit the hay." 380 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,160 As in, go to bed, yeah? 381 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,480 Is that one of your phrases? 382 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,760 Can you verbalize that for the tape? 383 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:49,760 I don't know anymore. 384 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,000 Have you got that? 385 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,520 Have you got that? 386 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,120 Can you read my lips? 387 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,400 I do not know what is happening here. 388 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,160 What you were saying, okay, that is not what fucking happened. 389 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,800 "Bungalow Reunion." 390 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,840 "Bungalow reunion?" 391 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:17,440 It's the last message 392 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,680 that Claire sent Sarah before Sarah called it in. 393 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,480 Remember, state clearly that what you're holding is evidence, 394 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,040 then put it down, yes? 395 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,040 Here you go. 396 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,360 For the tape, Detective Constable Petit has entered the room. 397 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:58,360 The medical report. 398 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,600 Thank you. 399 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,720 One of the worst parts of our job. 400 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,040 Paperwork. 401 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,600 Thank you. 402 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,840 Call the detectives that brought him in. See if it rings any bells with them. 403 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,440 The specific phrase was "bungalow reunion." 404 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,120 If this was a place they rented or somewhere they went on holiday, 405 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,800 we wouldn't know, because we don't have access to their bank transactions. 406 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,600 Well, I'm happy to look for you, but sending it all over will take time. 407 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,880 How about you check, and call me if something comes up? 408 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,360 Bye, now. 409 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,520 If you're right, and you didn't assault her, 410 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,480 why would Sarah say that you did? 411 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,520 She didn't contact us for several days after the alleged attack. 412 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,800 Why would that be? 413 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,960 It's not his job to work that out. 414 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,440 No, no. 415 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280 It might help. 416 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,520 See, normally, 417 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,960 if someone's got good reason to deny something like this… 418 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,480 They're gonna get back to us. 419 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,440 There's been so much going on, 420 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,816 maybe you haven't had a chance to give it a proper thought. 421 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,560 It's all I've been thinking about. 422 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,280 And yet you have no theory? 423 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,720 Oh, I've got a theory. I just don't like it. 424 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,560 I don't want to think I think this way about women. 425 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,280 I don't like the way it will make her sound. 426 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,080 She's accusing you of rape. 427 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,440 Alright, look… 428 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,800 She was applying for a more senior role at the office. 429 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,280 She was never gonna get it. 430 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,280 She probably knew that before she applied. 431 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,720 On Tuesday… 432 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,240 Tuesday, after she'd been at the flat, 433 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,920 my co-manager Jason told her she hadn't got it. 434 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:41,840 He said she was pissed off. 435 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,040 And then I realized that… 436 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,440 You know, maybe she only, um… 437 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,840 She only slept with you to get the job? 438 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,880 It just became… 439 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,880 Obvious to me at that point. 440 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,160 And completely honestly, if you want to know what I really think… 441 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720 If she got that promotion and there'd been another one going the next week after, 442 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,640 she'd have done the same thing again. 443 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,520 That's actually not very helpful. 444 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,680 I hate the fact that I think that, but… 445 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,960 But that's what I think. 446 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:19,840 Hmm. 447 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,120 Okay, the medical report. 448 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,960 Before you start with all that, Detective, 449 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,440 would it be okay to have a word with my client? 450 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,840 Of course. No problem. 451 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,600 Do you want us to find you a room? 452 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,320 No, this one's fine. It'll only take five minutes. 453 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,440 You do know this room is monitored? 454 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,120 We'll be able to see and hear you. 455 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,080 That's okay. We have nothing to hide. 456 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,160 Okay. 457 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,880 Interview suspended at 19:05. 458 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,520 Okay. 459 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,880 Forget what actually happened. Don't worry about that. 460 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,240 Just tell me this. 461 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,760 If that report shows Sarah suffered significant internal bruising… 462 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,480 - I don't think... - Just let me ask you the question. 463 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,960 If that's what it says, 464 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,800 I'm not saying it will, but if that's what's in there, for whatever reason… 465 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,880 What do you think that means for you, legally? 466 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,840 That… well… 467 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,680 If that's what it says… 468 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,000 That looks bad, I guess, but that's not what it's... 469 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,000 Stop there. 470 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,040 Now, if on the other hand it shows no signs of internal bruising… 471 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,360 - Which it will. - Okay, now, but hypothetically… 472 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,040 What does that mean, legally? 473 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,560 Well, that's got to be good, hasn't it? That means, you know, um… 474 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,840 - Normal sex, which is what we had. - Good. 475 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,440 And anything in between those two points 476 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640 is on a sliding scale, if you like. 477 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,960 Degrees of interpretation. 478 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,760 Okay, so this is what you need to understand clearly 479 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,240 before we let these people back into this room. 480 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,800 All of those answers are wrong. 481 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,080 Because… 482 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,280 Internal bruising alone can never prove rape. 483 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,920 There's always a way to maintain, however severe, 484 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,360 that the bruising is the result of consensual intercourse, yes? 485 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,720 Which breaks my heart, to be honest, love, but that's the rule. 486 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,720 And it has to be the rule to prevent the rare exceptions… 487 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:47,840 You okay? 488 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,520 And for similar reasons, a lack of bruising 489 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320 cannot show an absence of rape. 490 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,520 Does that make sense? 491 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,600 As in, rapes are not always a fight or a physical overpowering. 492 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,320 They can be coercive. 493 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,360 But wait, that's bad. 494 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,400 - I'm her boss. They might think I... - Alex. 495 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,760 - But I didn't. - Alex. 496 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,280 All you need to understand… 497 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,800 Whatever's in that file… 498 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,560 It cannot show anything either way. 499 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,160 That's why they make a song-and-dance about bringing it in, 500 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,080 making a point about putting the page back in the file before they leave the room. 501 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,800 They want you to feel there's more in there than there is. 502 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,920 They want you to think it's relevant, 503 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,400 but thankfully for you, love, it's not. 504 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,360 And they know it. 505 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,760 Is there internal bruising? 506 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,800 That's why, when they come back in, 507 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600 and this one here starts all the business with the glasses and the file… 508 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,400 We do not rise to it. 509 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,160 Okay? 510 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,680 Ready now. Thank you. 511 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,240 Alright. We go back to her statement. Her account. 512 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Go through her version, every detail. 513 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,760 We've still got the semen on the jacket. 514 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,800 You're allowed to have sex with someone who's wearing a jacket. 515 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,600 But it suggests she was trying to leave. 516 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,680 - So? - So that backs up her story. 517 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,240 But it's the same old defense, isn't it? 518 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,320 Passion. 519 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,480 If there's bruising, it's passion. 520 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,120 If she's still in her coat and shoes, it's passion. 521 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,320 Everything is in his favor. 522 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,120 You say it like you think he did it. 523 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,640 And I'm not saying that he didn't, 524 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,280 or that we don't put him through the wringer, but… 525 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,520 Let's be honest, we've got nothing that contradicts his account. 526 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Okay, so he's a bit of a prat. 527 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,680 Doesn't make him guilty. 528 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,200 And the fact that the system's tipped in his favor, 529 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,640 it's not his fault, is it? 530 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,520 Hello? 531 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,240 Interview resumes at 19:10. 532 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,480 Right, let's get to it. This attack… 533 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,920 There was no attack. 534 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480 Well, then, the moment you slept together, then, badly. 535 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,600 The intercourse. What happened? 536 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,800 - In what way, sorry? - Well, I don't know. You tell me. 537 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Were you on top, pinning her down? 538 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,200 You were in the bedroom, you said. Were you there the whole time? 539 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Were you on the bed throughout? 540 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,200 Paint us a picture. 541 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,200 Well, we… or she, I should say… 542 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,600 Decided to go to take things to the bedroom. 543 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,480 We had been kissing and we were drunk, as I said. 544 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,000 And then she asked if I loved Anja. 545 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,440 My girlfriend. 546 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,800 Do you? 547 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:18,800 Yes. 548 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,120 Is that what you told her? 549 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,320 No. 550 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,920 I thought if we were about to have sex she'd prefer to hear that I didn't. 551 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,560 And they say chivalry is dead. 552 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,120 So what you mean is, you manipulated her? 553 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,760 I lied about loving my girlfriend 554 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,880 to improve the chances of us having consensual sex, 555 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,640 which is what we did. 556 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,920 So you manipulated her. 557 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,920 Did you tie her up? 558 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,040 No. 559 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,960 Really? Not even… 560 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,280 What about around the wrists? 561 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,200 Nope. 562 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,080 Did you hold her 563 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,640 around the wrists? 564 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,320 No. 565 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,360 You don't sound certain. 566 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,080 I'm sure I… 567 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,160 - Wait, by "hold her"... - Just answer the question, Alex. 568 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:34,840 Look… 569 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,440 See… 570 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040 What your solicitor here told you 571 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:46,800 is right. 572 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,560 The stuff that's in here isn't relevant, 573 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,400 legally, for all the reasons that she said, but… 574 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,920 A very simple fact remains. 575 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,240 Whatever's in here 576 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,320 still needs to match what you're saying, 577 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,400 and if it doesn't… 578 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,880 Well, then we've got a problem. 579 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,640 I say "we"… 580 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,200 Yeah, alright. Look, please… 581 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,440 I do not have any recollection of holding her, or tying her wrists. 582 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,000 That's not really my… 583 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,400 That's not the way I tend to do things when I do things, okay? 584 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,160 But maybe I might have… 585 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,320 Held her like that briefly. 586 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,120 If I did… I don't think I did, but… 587 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:41,880 I'm just trying to… 588 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,720 I'm not sure. 589 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,800 - Why? - Why? 590 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,760 - Aren't you sure? - Because I was dr… 591 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:49,840 Drunk? 592 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280 That's it. You told us that from the very beginning. 593 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,280 "I was pissed, because I was. That's allowed." 594 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880 So you were drunk from about 11:00 p.m.? 595 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,760 - Around then. - "Around then"? 596 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,200 All right, we'll be generous, but by that score, 597 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520 anything you say about anything that happened after 11:00 p.m. 598 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,880 is also not to be trusted. 599 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,640 - Not with something like this. No. - Whoa. 600 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,320 I may have touched her wrist. 601 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,880 I don't remember everything, every word that was said, 602 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,320 every thing that happened, down to the tiniest detail. 603 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,360 But what I do know, and I'm sick to death of you speaking to me like this… 604 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,000 Is that I did not rape anyone. 605 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,880 I know that and you know that too, and you should stop... 606 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:34,800 Alex. 607 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,880 I don't care. 608 00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,480 I'm not answering any more of his chip-on-the-shoulder questions. 609 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,280 Finished? 610 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,040 No comment. 611 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,400 Guv… 612 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,800 For the tape, Detective Hobbs is leaving the room. 613 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,280 - Ma'am. - Yes? 614 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,240 The picture of Claire Hassan was lifted from her Linkedln page. 615 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,560 It said she'd worked in her last full-time job 616 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,400 for less than a month, last year. 617 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,480 Mm-hmm. 618 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,800 Turns out she had put herself up for a promotion, hadn't got it, 619 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,880 then made an allegation of sexual misconduct against her boss. 620 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,880 They ended up paying her to leave. 621 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,600 We had their bank accounts checked. 622 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,280 She spent the money on a trip to South Africa. 623 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,240 And she took Sarah. 624 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000 They shared something called a Safari Bungalow. 625 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,960 Before she reported the attack Sarah texted Claire, 626 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,800 saying she hadn't got the promotion. 627 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,360 Yes. I remember. 628 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,000 Claire messaged back… 629 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,080 "Bungalow reunion, question mark." 630 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,640 As if now was another opportunity to, you know… 631 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,560 Cash in. 632 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,880 I just don't want that to be true. 633 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,360 I don't want any woman to be like that. 634 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,400 But we also don't want people going down for things they haven't done. 635 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,200 Even if they are estate agents. 636 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,600 For the tape, Detective Hobbs has re-entered the room. 637 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,040 Alex, is there anything else you'd like to say 638 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,760 in relation to the night you spent with Sarah Macklin? 639 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,680 Any details you think we might have missed? 640 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,440 Anything you have not said that might prevent us from pressing charges? 641 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,160 Then with the time at 19:17, 642 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:05,200 I am terminating this interview. 643 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,920 You will be taken back to custody to collect your things and be discharged. 644 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,920 Detective Myerscough will fill you in on the remaining details, 645 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,120 but otherwise… 646 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,440 You're free to go. 647 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,640 That's it, then? They believe me? 648 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,880 Well, they did not have sufficient evidence 649 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,520 to corroborate the allegation made, 650 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,240 so the result is the same. 651 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,080 So what does that mean, now? 652 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,040 - Sorry? - For me. 653 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,640 It means you get to go home. 654 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,280 But what do they give me? 655 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,400 What do you give me? 656 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,520 You put me through all that, that living nightmare. 657 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,840 Now what? You suddenly decide I'm telling the truth? 658 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,080 No, we didn't decide that. 659 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200 We decided that we cannot show that you're lying. 660 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,680 Those are different things. 661 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,520 But is there… Where are you going? 662 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,320 I'm trying to ask you a question. 663 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,360 You're just walking out mid-sentence. 664 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,600 Is there some sort of official form I receive? 665 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,000 I'd like a letter or a statement 666 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,520 or something on the record, 667 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,480 saying that I did not do this. 668 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,440 We don't know that you didn't. 669 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,080 It was her word against mine. 670 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,160 Exactly. 671 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,840 - So, hang on… - I'm gonna go. 672 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,400 I'm expected to just get up, walk out… No, no, look, please! 673 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,080 Please, would you just do me a favor… 674 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,080 And sit down. 675 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,760 And give me five minutes of your time, when I gave you five hours. 676 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,520 Should we get some uniform in here in case this becomes a problem? 677 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,840 - Yeah. - I'll go. 678 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,720 So just to be clear… 679 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,520 I'm now expected just to get up, walk out of here, 680 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,840 go back to my life, back to my office, the, uh… 681 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,320 The place your colleagues arrested me, 682 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,960 the place I was escorted out of, 683 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,960 in front of my mates, colleagues, my clients… 684 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640 I just go and rock back up there in the morning, do I? 685 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,800 Well, if that's what you want to do. 686 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,440 It's what I need to do. That's how I earn a living. 687 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,560 Okay, then. 688 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,000 "Okay, then," what? 689 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,520 If that's what you need to do, that's what you'll need to do. 690 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,280 My interest in all this ended about three minutes ago. 691 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,920 Tell me the answer to this one thing. 692 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,160 My, uh… 693 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:33,200 My mum and my stepdad have this flat, in Liverpool. 694 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,080 They rent out to students. 695 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,240 Last year the police called saying they needed to search it. 696 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,760 Something to do with… 697 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,200 Drugs and one of their tenants, or something. 698 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,040 They turned the place upside down. 699 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,600 Trashed it, basically. 700 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,440 But when they'd finished… 701 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,320 After they were done… 702 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,320 And she went back there to see it, 703 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,480 she walked back in to find they'd put everything back. 704 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,280 It was perfect. 705 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,800 Any of the stuff they'd broken, it had all been replaced. 706 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,240 Some of it was better than before. So my question to you is… 707 00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:16,720 Why? 708 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,720 Why did they put the furniture back? 709 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,200 Because she'd been inconvenienced. 710 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,720 I've been inconvenienced. 711 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,040 - She had committed no crime. - Neither have I. 712 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,600 She was completely innocent. 713 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:30,720 So am I. 714 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,800 No. 715 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,480 You were arrested for something, 716 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,520 and we decided not to press charges. 717 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,840 And if that situation changes, 718 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,040 then we will be in touch. 719 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,400 - Sorry. - But that's not good enough. 720 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,800 You have to help me out, 721 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,920 because whatever the truth is here, this shit sticks. 722 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,760 That's the point. 723 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,000 I was tarnished the second your mates came into my office in their uniforms, 724 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,520 and nowadays, not being charged with rape, 725 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,640 that's not enough, okay? 726 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,320 People will say I got away with it, 727 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,280 that I wriggled out of it, when I did not do it. 728 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,320 So you come back to my office, please. 729 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,560 You speak to my friends, the women in my family… 730 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,600 You come back and you fix it. 731 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,000 You put the furniture back just how it was. 732 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,800 Step back from the door. 733 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,560 I think some other people might need the room. 734 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,000 But I want to keep talking. 735 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,560 Continue this conversation. 736 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,440 Alex, the conversation is over. 737 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,600 He's one of the ones that came to get me from before. 738 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,720 How many times do I have to prove I'm not a problem to you people? 739 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,600 You stay away from me. Get off me! 740 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,000 Get off me! Take your hands off me! 741 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,720 Take your hands off me! 742 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,360 You're not allowed to do this. 743 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:18,240 Good work today. 744 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,280 Deciding to let him go. That's a result. Yes? 745 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,440 Yeah. 746 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,440 Yeah. 57649

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