Original subtitles

Okay, nice and simple.

Let me tell you what happened, everything I can remember, in order.

Then when I'm done

if there's anything you want to ask I'll do my best to answer.

How does that sound?

So, Friday a week ago, me and the team, we go for drinks at the Cabin.

That's the, uh, the pub near Latimer Road.

The one that stays open late on a Friday and Saturday, turns into a bit of a club.

So that's, uh, that's me, Andy,

that's… that's Andrew Flanagan from Finance,

and then my sales team, that's, uh…

Kelly, Sanjay, and then, you know…

Sarah.

As in Sarah Macklin.

I get the first round, my way of marking the end of the week.

We drink those, that's the rule,

and then whoever wants to stay stays, and whoever wants to go, they can go.

It's the same every Friday. Nobody is forced to do anything.

And just after nine, uh,

Sanjay and Kelly go home, separately.

So that leaves me, Andy and Sarah. Yes?

You know, we're still there, the three of us, when the club bit starts.

Whenever that starts, um…

Midnight, something like that.

And this probably doesn't help me but it's true.

We're all a bit worse for wear by this point.

You know, Sarah is, definitely,

and she's new, and I'm thinking she still wants to show us she's a laugh.

Well, not show us she's a laugh.

Show us she's not "not a laugh" if that makes sense.

You know, I'm pissed, because I just am, that's allowed.

Andy's well gone, because it's…

Well, because it's Friday and because he works in Finance

and that's nobody's idea of a fun week.

Oh, and, um, nobody's eaten anything either.

So I start thinking we should leave.

All of us.

But then Sarah says she wants to stay,

and because she says that, Andy wants to stay,

when Andy's too drunk to stand up.

But Sarah says she wants to talk to me about how the new job's going.

One of those, um…

Serious conversations people want to have when they're drunk. You know?

Opportunities, promotions, shouting over the music.

You know, "I respect you. I want to make my way up the company."

You know, ambitious.

I'm like, "You're doing great." And all that. I mean, she's doing okay.

She's only been there a month. She made a few sales.

Not as much as some, but you know.

And then I look over at Andy and I decide it's time Andy went home.

Not because of anything between me and her,

but because it's time we all went home.

So we get in a cab, uh…

We drop him off. He's first.

If you do the route from there, he is first. You can check that.

And then there's just the two of us.

And she wants to get another drink, to keep talking.

Her suggestion.

But that's not going to work

because the only place near there that's still open at that time is the Cabin,

the place we've just come from.

So she says… she asks…

Where do I live?

Can we get a drink back at mine?

Her idea.

"Don't get any funny ideas," she tells me.

Loud and clear.

This is platonic. That's the message.

And God knows why that's the message, given the reasons we're here,

but that was what was said at the time, and is understood by me, loud and clear.

She says she wants my advice. "Please," you know, because, uh…

"Because you're where I want to be in five years' time."

All her.

And so we do.

We drink wine at mine.

Music, uh…

I'm on the sofa, she's on the chair.

She gets up, goes to the loo,

comes back in again, sits back down,

but now she's on the sofa next to me.

Close.

Right up here, close, in like that.

And I don't mind it.

I'll be honest. I don't mind it.

I mean, she's there, she's flirting, making all the running.

That's up to her. She's…

She's drinking, she's choosing the music.

She says she's going to kiss me because she likes this song.

She kisses me… You know, I kiss her back.

I'm not saying that I don't.

Then it gets to the point where she's… so pissed,

and the songs she's picking are so loud, and not what anyone needs to be hearing,

that I, um…

I book her an Uber.

You've got that from before.

I get her an Uber. It's on my account.

But when it comes, she won't take it.

Now I can't get her to go. She sits back down.

"One for the road!" And she's fit, yes.

And I'm not... What's… What's the word… uninterested.

We end up in the bedroom and in the bed… on the bed.

I never said we didn't. We do it once, one and a half times.

Badly, probably.

But we both wanted to do it and that's the point.

And in the morning, she's… she's gone, which is okay.

We don't speak on the Saturday or the Sunday,

and on the Monday afternoon when she's back in the office,

neither of us mentions it.

It's not until today, that's basically a week later,

that your lot turn up and start with all this shit.

And this shit's going to ruin me.

Do you want to say it or shall I?

No, no. You can go.

Okay.

Alex…

We don't believe you.

Alex, there was a moment there, when you were explaining what happened,

when you wanted something written down.

It was important, I could tell.

The fact that Sarah was the one that suggested we go back to mine.

- That is important. - I get it.

- And so I did want that written down. - I get that.

- And did you? - Sorry?

Write it down?

Yeah.

But the point I'm making is that when you made that gesture,

you made it to me.

You didn't ask Tony, even though we both have notebooks.

I don't follow.

Even though it was Tony who you were looking at at the time.

- No, hang on. - You still made that gesture at me.

For me to write it down.

No, no. Are you trying to say that's because you're a woman? Is that it?

Because that's not what that was.

To be clear, there's no way you're doing that.

- I'm just asking. - Yeah, and don't worry, I'm answering.

I asked you to write it down, because I wanted it written down.

And I had to ask someone. It was a 50-50.

Maybe in your mind, I don't know, I look more, um…

Secretarial?

This is…

Look, I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it.

And it's not like it changes anything that's happening here.

It's just… well, it speaks to something.

How we do things, judge people without thinking…

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with why we're here.

This has everything to do with why we're here. This stuff…

Oh, this is where it starts.

Is that the real Natalie, or is that just a…

Strategy?

- I'm not sure. - Mmm.

Tony's not sure either.

Look.

Oh, he's okay. Just limbering up.

Okay, Alex. Listen.

Rather than attack your story,

turn this into an argument, us accusing you and so on,

we're better off telling you why we've deemed it necessary to arrest you.

Go through some of the details you've either chosen not to mention…

- I haven't "chosen" not to... - Wait.

Or details you may be unaware of.

So that you get to see things from our side.

So you get the chance to explain why we've got this so very wrong.

Okay?

No point going after you for something that hasn't happened.

- No. - No.

No point taking Sarah's account as reliable

without interrogating it properly.

- No. - No.

No point not doing the same with your account.

- No. - Okay. Good.

Right.

Before we get bogged down in all the details

surrounding the alleged rape itself,

let me start you with this one.

Who is Claire Hassan?

Sarah's mate.

Sarah's best mate.

Claire Hassan, here she is…

Was the one who recommended Sarah to your agency

because she was interested in working in property.

Yeah. Her…

Her brother worked with us once. Nyle Hassan. Why?

Claire Hassan…

Is also flatmates with Sarah.

Now, she and Sarah were always messaging each other.

Dozens of times a day, you know the kind of thing.

Were you aware of that?

Why would I be aware of that?

No, fair point. But that's great for us, to be honest.

Because by letting us have access to their phones,

it lets us have access to a whole wealth of data.

Clues, essentially.

Clues to where Sarah was,

when Sarah was in those places…

And how Sarah was feeling at any given time,

including sixth March,

the night she was with you. Now…

If I can get my colleague Vanessa to…

What does that mean, do we think?

How would you describe that?

I dunno. Pissed off? Angry?

It's definitely a dissatisfied face, isn't it?

This is what Sarah sent Claire Hassan at 4:00 a.m.,

the night she was with you.

I'm not denying it.

- Denying what? - That we were together that night.

- I've literally just told you. - Alex, calm down.

We're just getting started here. Fly off the handle, by all means.

But there is stuff coming up, I promise.

Three minutes later, even at that time, Claire writes back…

And then straight after, we get this.

- "He just kissed me." - "He just kissed me."

That's what it says.

So what does it mean?

It means what it says it means. "He just kissed me."

As in?

As in, "We went back to his place…".

As in, my place, which we did, I've said that more than once…

And she knows her best mate's wondering what's gone on between me and her,

me and Sarah, gossip-wise.

So Sarah's messaged, "He just kissed me."

As in…

As in, "All that's happened is, we kissed."

Just a burger and no fries. Just a soft drink, not a beer.

Just a kiss, nothing more.

- So she wanted to kiss? - Yes.

- She was okay with that? - Yes.

So why the angry emoji?

You know, because…

Because she liked me.

Run that one by me again, sorry.

Ever since joining the company,

she was always, uh, hanging around. You know?

If we were out together, she'd be right there,

following, laughing at all my shit jokes.

If there was a sales meeting and I looked at her,

I'd notice she was already looking at me. That kind of thing.

She fancied you.

Yeah, in a word, mate, yes.

That's not me making out I'm good-looking.

I'm not bad looking, but there are better-looking guys out there, okay?

Most women don't fancy me as far as I know.

Some women do, and she was one of the ones that did,

and she was doing little things to let me know…

No. Still talking.

Oof.

When we were out together that night,

at the bar,

she got what she wanted: Me on my own, then back to my place.

She got a kiss, like I said,

and that's when at that point, I decided to leave it,

and that's when she sent that message.

She's angry. But only as a bit of a joke.

She's angry because all we'd done was kiss.

"Just kissed," when she was wanting more.

But she got more.

In the end. In the end she did.

That's the other thing. Sarah was…

What's the word I'm looking for?

Drunk?

Persuasive.

Sarah's one of those girls who can, uh…

You know, get her own way. Hard to say no to.

Why do you think I gave her the sales job in the first place?

Hilarious, the way that he's talking.

It's as if he was the one who was forced into it.

Can you tell, as a woman?

Can you look at a guy and get a feeling he might be trouble?

No, of course you can't, Kyle.

How do you think we end up in situations like this?

They don't come wearing a badge.

There's more to it than that, though.

There's a man who knows what he wants.

Careful, Guv.

Alright, I haven't said it yet.

There's the guy who knows what he wants, right?

Assertive.

Assertiveness can be attractive. Women can be drawn to that.

And then there's the assertive type who is so sure of what he wants,

and is so used to getting it, that when it doesn't happen…

- He just takes it. - Yeah.

So we don't spot the clue, because the clue is the quality.

And that's how we end up with situations like this.

How are we doing with this medical report?

- Here you go, Guv. - Thank you.

Oh…

- This is all they sent us? - It's everything you asked for.

Diagrams on the blue pages, gynecologist's statement at the back.

- Needs fattening up. - As in?

Put it in a bigger file with a load of paper, or a heavy notebook.

But this is the file they sent.

I'm not with you. Sorry.

Doesn't matter what else is in the folder.

It's all about first impressions.

When you bring in a file that contains evidence,

you don't want to put it down like it's a flappy bit of paper.

You want to whack it down like it's War and bloody Peace.

So when do we take it through?

Tony wants it as soon as he opens his can of water.

Interview resumes at 18:52. Same persons present in the room.

Let's go through Sarah's account.

Sarah Macklin.

Not that you need reminding of course, but here's one we took earlier.

Now, a lot of what Sarah says

in the statement that she gave to her OIC,

that's her Officer In Care…

It's quite faithful to yours, to be honest.

Uh…

You bought the first round, but only because you always buy the first round.

Flanagan's house was the first drop-off on the way back home,

and she willingly came back to your flat for a drink.

And that it was her idea.

And that it was her idea. Yes, she agrees.

"I was the one who suggested we have one more,

go back to his and all that."

And then…

She goes into this whole thing about blaming herself,

and her Officer In Care is saying how she shouldn't blame herself for anything.

Blah, blah, blah…

And… Yes.

"He says yes to going back to his.

'There's nothing to worry about, ' he says. 'My girlfriend is away.'"

And?

Nothing, only you didn't mention that bit.

About having a girlfriend.

No.

Why?

Because it's not relevant.

Because she's not going to be my girlfriend anymore.

Because of all this?

She looks nice.

Well, maybe you should go out with her.

Sorry.

Sarah says she was dancing. She says that you chose the music.

Not true.

"He put on 'Beautiful' by Christina Aguilera."

- Not true. - "Said it was one of his favorites."

- Definitely not true. - "In a guilty pleasure kind of way.

It made him think about beautiful things and what everyone was doing to the planet,

and sometimes it even made him cry."

Are you the crying type, Alex?

- You ever been known to shed a tear? - You need to stop that.

Quite right.

Back to the attack.

"I had a good time. I fancied him."

I snogged him. I liked it to begin with.

I remember thinking he was a good kisser, to be fair.

A sensitive kisser.

But what pissed me off…" This will be the angry face.

"…Is that he had this way about him

where he was expecting things to happen between us straightaway."

No.

"He just presumed, in that way when you bring home chips,

or a Chinese meal, or whatever, you eat it the second you get home.

Before the song was even over,

he was trying to put his hand down the front of my trousers."

That song's four minutes long.

- Quick work. - I did not put my hand there.

She put my hand there.

I can't believe we're even…

Does this stuff get played in court?

What makes you think this is going to court?

"He started doing that."

Trying to get his fingers in.

I didn't want him to go that far.

I could see a picture of his girlfriend on the side,

"she was looking at us from a photo frame."

Yes. That's the photo she was looking at.

"Staring at us like we were doing something wrong.

I asked him to stop it, to book me an Uber."

- "But the Uber never came." - It's on my phone.

The booking is. So is the cancellation.

- She asked me to cancel it. - She says it was you.

And no one will ever know.

That she was annoyed it hadn't come, the Uber,

so she went to the toilet and texted her mate Claire.

"He just kissed me," angry face, all of that.

"And when I came out he said it was time to go hit the hay."

As in, go to bed, yeah?

Is that one of your phrases?

Can you verbalize that for the tape?

I don't know anymore.

Have you got that?

Have you got that?

Can you read my lips?

I do not know what is happening here.

What you were saying, okay, that is not what fucking happened.

"Bungalow Reunion."

"Bungalow reunion?"

It's the last message

that Claire sent Sarah before Sarah called it in.

Remember, state clearly that what you're holding is evidence,

then put it down, yes?

Here you go.

For the tape, Detective Constable Petit has entered the room.

The medical report.

Thank you.

One of the worst parts of our job.

Paperwork.

Thank you.

Call the detectives that brought him in. See if it rings any bells with them.

The specific phrase was "bungalow reunion."

If this was a place they rented or somewhere they went on holiday,

we wouldn't know, because we don't have access to their bank transactions.

Well, I'm happy to look for you, but sending it all over will take time.

How about you check, and call me if something comes up?

Bye, now.

If you're right, and you didn't assault her,

why would Sarah say that you did?

She didn't contact us for several days after the alleged attack.

Why would that be?

It's not his job to work that out.

No, no.

It might help.

See, normally,

if someone's got good reason to deny something like this…

They're gonna get back to us.

There's been so much going on,

maybe you haven't had a chance to give it a proper thought.

It's all I've been thinking about.

And yet you have no theory?

Oh, I've got a theory. I just don't like it.

I don't want to think I think this way about women.

I don't like the way it will make her sound.

She's accusing you of rape.

Alright, look…

She was applying for a more senior role at the office.

She was never gonna get it.

She probably knew that before she applied.

On Tuesday…

Tuesday, after she'd been at the flat,

my co-manager Jason told her she hadn't got it.

He said she was pissed off.

And then I realized that…

You know, maybe she only, um…

She only slept with you to get the job?

It just became…

Obvious to me at that point.

And completely honestly, if you want to know what I really think…

If she got that promotion and there'd been another one going the next week after,

she'd have done the same thing again.

That's actually not very helpful.

I hate the fact that I think that, but…

But that's what I think.

Hmm.

Okay, the medical report.

Before you start with all that, Detective,

would it be okay to have a word with my client?

Of course. No problem.

Do you want us to find you a room?

No, this one's fine. It'll only take five minutes.

You do know this room is monitored?

We'll be able to see and hear you.

That's okay. We have nothing to hide.

Okay.

Interview suspended at 19:05.

Okay.

Forget what actually happened. Don't worry about that.

Just tell me this.

If that report shows Sarah suffered significant internal bruising…

- I don't think... - Just let me ask you the question.

If that's what it says,

I'm not saying it will, but if that's what's in there, for whatever reason…

What do you think that means for you, legally?

That… well…

If that's what it says…

That looks bad, I guess, but that's not what it's...

Stop there.

Now, if on the other hand it shows no signs of internal bruising…

- Which it will. - Okay, now, but hypothetically…

What does that mean, legally?

Well, that's got to be good, hasn't it? That means, you know, um…

- Normal sex, which is what we had. - Good.

And anything in between those two points

is on a sliding scale, if you like.

Degrees of interpretation.

Okay, so this is what you need to understand clearly

before we let these people back into this room.

All of those answers are wrong.

Because…

Internal bruising alone can never prove rape.

There's always a way to maintain, however severe,

that the bruising is the result of consensual intercourse, yes?

Which breaks my heart, to be honest, love, but that's the rule.

And it has to be the rule to prevent the rare exceptions…

You okay?

And for similar reasons, a lack of bruising

cannot show an absence of rape.

Does that make sense?

As in, rapes are not always a fight or a physical overpowering.

They can be coercive.

But wait, that's bad.

- I'm her boss. They might think I... - Alex.

- But I didn't. - Alex.

All you need to understand…

Whatever's in that file…

It cannot show anything either way.

That's why they make a song-and-dance about bringing it in,

making a point about putting the page back in the file before they leave the room.

They want you to feel there's more in there than there is.

They want you to think it's relevant,

but thankfully for you, love, it's not.

And they know it.

Is there internal bruising?

That's why, when they come back in,

and this one here starts all the business with the glasses and the file…

We do not rise to it.

Okay?

Ready now. Thank you.

Alright. We go back to her statement. Her account.

Go through her version, every detail.

We've still got the semen on the jacket.

You're allowed to have sex with someone who's wearing a jacket.

But it suggests she was trying to leave.

- So? - So that backs up her story.

But it's the same old defense, isn't it?

Passion.

If there's bruising, it's passion.

If she's still in her coat and shoes, it's passion.

Everything is in his favor.

You say it like you think he did it.

And I'm not saying that he didn't,

or that we don't put him through the wringer, but…

Let's be honest, we've got nothing that contradicts his account.

Okay, so he's a bit of a prat.

Doesn't make him guilty.

And the fact that the system's tipped in his favor,

it's not his fault, is it?

Hello?

Interview resumes at 19:10.

Right, let's get to it. This attack…

There was no attack.

Well, then, the moment you slept together, then, badly.

The intercourse. What happened?

- In what way, sorry? - Well, I don't know. You tell me.

Were you on top, pinning her down?

You were in the bedroom, you said. Were you there the whole time?

Were you on the bed throughout?

Paint us a picture.

Well, we… or she, I should say…

Decided to go to take things to the bedroom.

We had been kissing and we were drunk, as I said.

And then she asked if I loved Anja.

My girlfriend.

Do you?

Yes.

Is that what you told her?

No.

I thought if we were about to have sex she'd prefer to hear that I didn't.

And they say chivalry is dead.

So what you mean is, you manipulated her?

I lied about loving my girlfriend

to improve the chances of us having consensual sex,

which is what we did.

So you manipulated her.

Did you tie her up?

No.

Really? Not even…

What about around the wrists?

Nope.

Did you hold her

around the wrists?

No.

You don't sound certain.

I'm sure I…

- Wait, by "hold her"... - Just answer the question, Alex.

Look…

See…

What your solicitor here told you

is right.

The stuff that's in here isn't relevant,

legally, for all the reasons that she said, but…

A very simple fact remains.

Whatever's in here

still needs to match what you're saying,

and if it doesn't…

Well, then we've got a problem.

I say "we"…

Yeah, alright. Look, please…

I do not have any recollection of holding her, or tying her wrists.

That's not really my…

That's not the way I tend to do things when I do things, okay?

But maybe I might have…

Held her like that briefly.

If I did… I don't think I did, but…

I'm just trying to…

I'm not sure.

- Why? - Why?

- Aren't you sure? - Because I was dr…

Drunk?

That's it. You told us that from the very beginning.

"I was pissed, because I was. That's allowed."

So you were drunk from about 11:00 p.m.?

- Around then. - "Around then"?

All right, we'll be generous, but by that score,

anything you say about anything that happened after 11:00 p.m.

is also not to be trusted.

- Not with something like this. No. - Whoa.

I may have touched her wrist.

I don't remember everything, every word that was said,

every thing that happened, down to the tiniest detail.

But what I do know, and I'm sick to death of you speaking to me like this…

Is that I did not rape anyone.

I know that and you know that too, and you should stop...

Alex.

I don't care.

I'm not answering any more of his chip-on-the-shoulder questions.

Finished?

No comment.

Guv…

For the tape, Detective Hobbs is leaving the room.

- Ma'am. - Yes?

The picture of Claire Hassan was lifted from her Linkedln page.

It said she'd worked in her last full-time job

for less than a month, last year.

Mm-hmm.

Turns out she had put herself up for a promotion, hadn't got it,

then made an allegation of sexual misconduct against her boss.

They ended up paying her to leave.

We had their bank accounts checked.

She spent the money on a trip to South Africa.

And she took Sarah.

They shared something called a Safari Bungalow.

Before she reported the attack Sarah texted Claire,

saying she hadn't got the promotion.

Yes. I remember.

Claire messaged back…

"Bungalow reunion, question mark."

As if now was another opportunity to, you know…

Cash in.

I just don't want that to be true.

I don't want any woman to be like that.

But we also don't want people going down for things they haven't done.

Even if they are estate agents.

For the tape, Detective Hobbs has re-entered the room.

Alex, is there anything else you'd like to say

in relation to the night you spent with Sarah Macklin?

Any details you think we might have missed?

Anything you have not said that might prevent us from pressing charges?

Then with the time at 19:17,

I am terminating this interview.

You will be taken back to custody to collect your things and be discharged.

Detective Myerscough will fill you in on the remaining details,

but otherwise…

You're free to go.

That's it, then? They believe me?

Well, they did not have sufficient evidence

to corroborate the allegation made,

so the result is the same.

So what does that mean, now?

- Sorry? - For me.

It means you get to go home.

But what do they give me?

What do you give me?

You put me through all that, that living nightmare.

Now what? You suddenly decide I'm telling the truth?

No, we didn't decide that.

We decided that we cannot show that you're lying.

Those are different things.

But is there… Where are you going?

I'm trying to ask you a question.

You're just walking out mid-sentence.

Is there some sort of official form I receive?

I'd like a letter or a statement

or something on the record,

saying that I did not do this.

We don't know that you didn't.

It was her word against mine.

Exactly.

- So, hang on… - I'm gonna go.

I'm expected to just get up, walk out… No, no, look, please!

Please, would you just do me a favor…

And sit down.

And give me five minutes of your time, when I gave you five hours.

Should we get some uniform in here in case this becomes a problem?

- Yeah. - I'll go.

So just to be clear…

I'm now expected just to get up, walk out of here,

go back to my life, back to my office, the, uh…

The place your colleagues arrested me,

the place I was escorted out of,

in front of my mates, colleagues, my clients…

I just go and rock back up there in the morning, do I?

Well, if that's what you want to do.

It's what I need to do. That's how I earn a living.

Okay, then.

"Okay, then," what?

If that's what you need to do, that's what you'll need to do.

My interest in all this ended about three minutes ago.

Tell me the answer to this one thing.

My, uh…

My mum and my stepdad have this flat, in Liverpool.

They rent out to students.

Last year the police called saying they needed to search it.

Something to do with…

Drugs and one of their tenants, or something.

They turned the place upside down.

Trashed it, basically.

But when they'd finished…

After they were done…

And she went back there to see it,

she walked back in to find they'd put everything back.

It was perfect.

Any of the stuff they'd broken, it had all been replaced.

Some of it was better than before. So my question to you is…

Why?

Why did they put the furniture back?

Because she'd been inconvenienced.

I've been inconvenienced.

- She had committed no crime. - Neither have I.

She was completely innocent.

So am I.

No.

You were arrested for something,

and we decided not to press charges.

And if that situation changes,

then we will be in touch.

- Sorry. - But that's not good enough.

You have to help me out,

because whatever the truth is here, this shit sticks.

That's the point.

I was tarnished the second your mates came into my office in their uniforms,

and nowadays, not being charged with rape,

that's not enough, okay?

People will say I got away with it,

that I wriggled out of it, when I did not do it.

So you come back to my office, please.

You speak to my friends, the women in my family…

You come back and you fix it.

You put the furniture back just how it was.

Step back from the door.

I think some other people might need the room.

But I want to keep talking.

Continue this conversation.

Alex, the conversation is over.

He's one of the ones that came to get me from before.

How many times do I have to prove I'm not a problem to you people?

You stay away from me. Get off me!

Get off me! Take your hands off me!

Take your hands off me!

You're not allowed to do this.

Good work today.

Deciding to let him go. That's a result. Yes?

Yeah.

Yeah.