Original subtitles

Well, all my life I wanted to make movies.

I started in a little town in the north of Chile, Tocopilla,

seeing the Flash Gordon,

El Zorro and other pictures.

But the picture that

impressed me the most in all my life was

Le Bossu de Notre-Dame, the hunchback,

I don't know how do you say that in English, with Charles Laughton.

I saw that and I fell in love with the monster.

I imitated the monster all day.

Later another picture came -

it was the first Frankenstein with Boris Karloff.

I also loved the monster.

From that moment, I started to love monsters all my life.

I experimented with all kinds of art forms,

thinking that one day I would need that for my movies.

I went to university and studied

Philosophy and Psychology,

but I hated university and I started to make puppets, marionettes -

Guignol they are called.

I made a theater production with that.

I also studied expressionist dance.

I formed a theater company

for performing mime.

I wrote novels, short stories,

a lot of poems,

paintings, drawings...

Every art form, I did it all.

I started applying all of that experience to theatrical productions.

In Mexico, I staged a hundred theater plays.

Before that, I worked for years -

and I still do work - with Marceau.

Yesterday, I wrote a mime show for him.

I made The Mask Maker,

and a lot of things for him.

I've directed Maurice Chevalier and have worked in vaudeville theater.

I became a very famous name in Mexican theater.

This is the history behind Fando y Lis.

I read the play and loved it, so I did it for the theater.

I spent a year working on that production of Fando and Lis.

I like monsters,

and one day a boy with Down's syndrome -

a Jewish boy, with a large mouth,

and some kind of retarded mental condition - came to see me.

I was so... I wouldn't say "in love", because I'm not gay myself.

I was in love in the aesthetical way.

I said to the boy, "You'll be my assistant director,

"my chauffeur, and my driver."

Everybody thought I was crazy,

because this boy... drove in a way

that always put our lives in danger.

When I was directing an actor, he would stand between me and the actors,

we had to push him away.

But I loved him and he was my assistant director.

When I finished the shoot, he committed suicide.

But it was a weird suicide, because he was smoking a joint in his bed

and the bed caught fire and he died.

His father was a very rich man, Moshe Rosenberg.

He was selling jewels in Mexico.

And he said to me, "You did so much for my child,

"I want to finance a theater play."

I said, "I don't need it, because whenever I've produced theater plays,

"I've always been able to find investors to raise the funds.

"When I need your money, I'll ask for it."

One day another crazy Mexican said to me,

"Why don't you make a picture? It's easy."

- "How?" - "It's 10 pieces.

"You have to make 10 pieces, every piece is 10,000 dollars."

And I said, "If every piece 10,000, then it's 100,000 dollars.

"But I could do it if I shoot it over weekends."

So then I went to see Moshe Rosenberg and said,

"Now I need 100,000 dollars," and he said, "OK, go!"

And I started to make Fando y Lis.

This is why Fando y Lis begins with:

"Dedicated to the memory of Samuel Rosenberg."

He was the monster.

That's how I got the money to do Fando y Lis.

Here are the elegant people living in their destroyed world.

They are not aware of the destruction they created.

It's the same today -

we're living in this garbage and we don't realize that,

and we're leading a social life, a superficial life. You see?

I found these ruins in the center of the city.

They were the ruins of a mental asylum.

They destroyed the asylum. And I went to shoot there.

The piano that is burning was my homage to Dalí,

who also likes to use images of things burning.

But it's also an allegory of the person -

our body is burning like the piano.

They are living in a garbage world

and playing music on a piano that's in flames.

In the midst of the destruction, they don't realize

they are elegant, crazy and superficial people.

When the boy comes...

...the women take him like a rapacious hawk.

It's the innocence of a child they will take from him,

because they've lost the innocence and they find innocence.

Now we'll see how Lis was raped.

These are the memories of Lis.

Those are all the symbols of our society.

She is innocent.

Then comes an incarnation of God, who has a puppet

and he will cut the puppet's strings - he will direct.

I always wanted to play God in my pictures.

In El Topo I said, "I am God."

There is God, you know.

The death scene - giving death.

The biggest serial killer, we know, is God. The biggest.

What's a human being? Nothing.

He wants to save the innocence of the girl.

The monster takes this child,

and he puts this child...

...into the adult world...

into the mystery of the adult world...

...into hell.

There she will be perverted.

They give her money, they make her sign autographs.

You never come to reality there,

because every time you go inside, there's still another cube.

Reality is infinite, she can't find truth.

It's a nightmare.

The drum that she has is the symbol of childhood,

of purity and virginity.

She wants to escape when she sees the old woman.

These are characters that we will see later.

He's the rational person who discusses all the time,

without any emotions or feelings.

It's the rational mind.

She will be raped by the rational mind,

as every one of us is raped by this world.

We're attacking the eggs - we're attacking life, existence itself.

The adults are destroying existence.

This is a pedophile civilization.

I like this guy, because I hated...

that he was such an "actor", and that's Fando -

you need to hate Fando at this moment. He's not true.

This woman was the mother of Lis.

She was the mother of the actress.

That is Valerie, my wife. She has a very nice body,

but when she's naked the mosquitoes bit her.

And then it wasn't so beautiful.

Here there was a cemetery of cars.

The hygienic conditions weren't so good...

Fando and Lis are searching for sex and losing their innocence.

Her ass was bitten by the mosquitoes,

which was good, it was good.

That's reality, n'est-ce pas? That's reality.

We're speaking about our bisexual nature.

He reveals to himself his homosexual desire.

You know?

He's humiliated.

They are coming out of the destruction of illusion.

The only people that they have in the world are the animus and the anima.

They are two together.

They will recover their innocence, dramatically.

But the real innocence is finished.

It will be an imitation of innocence now.

The soul is destroyed.

The ruins don't want to die - they are always there.

In order to construct a new world, we need to clean even the ruins,

but the piano doesn't want to die.

It will resist.

This world doesn't want to die.

And they are caught in an eternal trap.

The piano dies alone.

We're in the middle of death, now.

But for them, death will be a party, it will be happiness.

I shot this scene in a little town in Mexico.

I didn't have any permits, and it was very dangerous.

We needed to shoot the scene very quickly,

because even though the cemetery was far away from the town,

if they knew what we were doing, they would have killed us...

...because we took all the crosses and mixed them up, which was sacrilege.

Sex.

They are making fun of all of that,

but in a way, we were making fun of the poor people that are buried there.

It's like a circus.

Turning like a circus.

It's not a real happiness, because it's a dramatic happiness.

And now, they will realize the puppet is buried.

It's like them.

All the people who are buried in this cemetery are children.

That's what they discover.

A dead person is always a child.

After happiness comes sadness.

It's like a Buddhist thought.

When the Buddha came out of his paradise, he saw illness,

death, old people,

and he said we need to go out of this bad dream.

And Tar was inside his head.

And here we have an alchemical image...

We open the hill,

the mother of the world...

...in order to take out the soul, the spiritual part of the mother.

This landscape was an abandoned mine. It was abandoned.

It's very near the town.

I wanted to create some kind of post-atomic world.

Like a child,

Fando will torture Lis in order to create experiences,

because Lis is a part of him.

And then he will put Lis in cruel situations.

The same curiosity of the child who breaks a toy in order to see

what is inside the toy.

But by breaking the toy, he will break himself.

All the suffering of Lis is his own suffering.

We'll descend in spirals, like in the Hell of Dante's Divine Comedy.

We'll go down inside the earth.

This pope is a woman.

I chose a woman to take the role of this old person, in order to give this idea.

Her name was Tamara Garina. She was a very old dancer.

That's the decadence of the church I was showing.

He throws a Venus down, to break sensuality.

He's attracted by the decadent church.

We'll see what happens with religion there.

He's like a vampire of life, this Pope.

The actual Pope is similar, eh?

I was in Rome and the Pope was on the balcony and a dove came,

and the Pope was very afraid of the dove shitting on his robes

and he brushed the dove away.

What if Christ had done the same thing with the Dove of the Sainted Spirit?

He's waiting for a miracle...

...but it's a gift of life that's coming.

It was difficult to find, in Mexico,

a pregnant woman to want to play like that.

But my depravation could go by,

because the audience doesn't notice that this is a lesbian scene.

Because the Pope is a woman.

This is beautiful, no? But that was only mud. It's earth with rain.

It was very dangerous to shoot there, because it's not a rock -

it's earth and water, that's all.

He will give him a truth that he cannot understand.

The truth is only mouth sound.

He cannot understand it.

Before Night of the Living Dead. This is before, eh?

Before Night of the Living Dead.

This is really before.

I'm happy to say that,

because I wanted to make the living dead

come out of the...

...out of the grave.

They are soldiers, ancient soldiers.

You see? Always the destruction of the world.

The earth is dying. This pregnant woman is the earth.

For me, this was the feeling of a life without soul,

living in the material world only.

These people are happy to be there and invite the souls...

...of Fando and Lis

to go to this material life.

I wanted to make all these people naked,

but we had a spy from the government

who didn't allow me to do that, at that time.

I couldn't do it.

But in reality you need to imagine it without pants and things like that.

They need to be naked.

When I started to do Fando y Lis, I never went to school to study.

I don't know any technical names.

But with a rubber strap, I tied myself to the photographer,

at the back of the photographer, and I moved the photographer.

He had the camera and I moved him.

Wherever I wanted them to go, I went with them.

This was my technique.

I didn't want to use a script. The script was only one page.

I invented the picture from my memory of the theater play,

the world of Arrabal.

I invented the picture when I was shooting, because I had my ideas.

Also I didn't want to make any concession

to the industrial techniques, to have the public with you.

For me, movies are a kind of art and I'm going to express myself.

If just three people see this picture, then three people see it.

I will not make a picture for a lot of people,

I will make this picture for a few people,

then I'll be free to do whatever I want.

You know, when you make your first picture,

you don't know what are you doing, because you don't have any experience.

When I finished this picture, I went to see Carlos Savage.

Carlos Savage was the editor of all the pictures Buñuel made in Mexico.

And he helped me with all his experience that he got from Buñuel,

I was an admirer of Buñuel, then I started to do that.

Also at that time,

the union prevented young people from making pictures.

The old directors needed to give their permission,

and then you needed to pay the unions.

Myself, I didn't pay any union, I didn't ask any permission,

and I made the picture out of law.

When the picture was finished,

another crazy Mexican put the picture into the Festival of Acapulco.

The scandal was so great that they closed the festival forever.

Mexicans didn't have the habit to see images like that.

They were used to seeing horses, guns,

charros, criminals, prostitutes, but not that!

They wanted to lynch me.

I needed to hide in the bottom of a car.

They accused me, they put me on trial, it was a big scandal!

But I defended myself, I fought back.

There was a union for short pictures and they said,

"Don't say it's a picture, say they are four short pictures put together.

"If you put four titles on the picture, it's four short pictures."

It's the same for El Topo. In El Topo, there are "Genesis", "Prophets"...

there are four parts.

It was a trick in order to have a union with me.

It's four short pictures.

And that's how I made Fando y Lis.

It was a big suffering.

Emilio Fernández, the biggest Mexican director,

the only one who made pictures that sold abroad...

Emilio Fernández, very well known,

had killed two people on the set already.

He said, "I will kill Jodorowsky, this night!"

And then I went to the party that was organized

for all the stars of the Festival of Acapulco,

and he was drinking.

I asked one of the servants what he liked to drink,

and he said, "Every night he likes to drink a bottle of whisky."

And I said, "Send him, on my behalf, another bottle of whisky."

And then they told him, "Jodorowsky's sent you this."

And he started to drink,

and when he finished his first bottle, he said, "I want to see him."

So I went to see him.

But when I said he had killed two people, he really killed two people.

It's not a joke.

Emilio Fernández killed two people on the set.

So I sat with him and I said, "This is me. You want to kill me."

And he said, "Amigo, you gave me the whisky, ha-ha!"

And he takes me in his big arms, comme ça,

and he finished the second bottle and was completely drunk,

then he said to the press,

"In the next picture of Jodorowsky, I want to be his assistant."

And that was a big thing for me.

Life is very weird, because he died

and when I shot Santa Sangre,

I needed a weird house, and I used the house of Emilio Fernández.

His daughter rented the house to me, so in a way he was my assistant.

We need to take care of what we say,

because everything we say, life fulfils.

My father came from Russia...

...in 1905.

My grandfather was very poor, he made shoes by hand.

He was a religious Jewish person - very religious, he didn't take money,

and his family was always in misery.

My father embarked on the big adventure of his life without any money.

Poverty in Chile was terrible, so he went in the circus.

When he married my mother,

because my mother came from a business family,

my father opened a store in Tocopilla, "La Casa Ucrania" - "House of Ukraine",

and he became a serious person.

But the circus came once a year and he knew everyone in the circus.

I remember when I was a little child

and I had, in my arms, a little lion who was born in the circus.

There are not many children who can play with a little lion.

I played with a little lion,

and they made me travel about the town on top of an elephant.

Later, I also did that in Santa Sangre.

You know, in Mexico, that was terrible,

because they respect the mother with the white hair so much.

The mother!

And then I was showing the mother gambling, having sex,

so that was a great shock for them.

When he saw that,

that's when Emilio Fernández said that he was going to kill me.

It's nothing, for me it's nothing.

These are peaches in syrup.

They are fighting for the man.

I put in the symbol of the white hair.

That was a real scandal.

In a Mexican picture, doing that...

The testicles.

I always have a good feeling about castration.

Everything has to do with testicles.

Also the big black balls are testicles, two testicles.

You see?

If I can show horrible men, why not show horrible women?

Here he starts to face the problem with his father.

The same problem that I have today, because my father is 99 years old.

He's still alive.

I didn't see him for years,

then he went to see me when he was 88,

and the first thing he asked me was to rent pornographic pictures for him.

I said to him, "I've never touched you. I want to massage you now."

And he said, "Yes, but all the family." Then my daughter and my wife did.

He concentrated on my daughter and my wife.

I never could touch him.

The actor is one of the photographers of the film.

Corkidi and the actor.

There were two.

And the black girl who attacks him was a singer,

a Mexican singer who's the daughter of a big writer.

Only friends were with me there.

I chose this man, because he was little.

I wanted a little man to do that.

The old generation always wants to bury the new generation,

because they don't want to give up power.

I needed to make him fuck all the girls, but in Mexico I couldn't do it

or they would have put me in jail.

But in reality I wanted him to fuck all the women.

If I were shooting it today, I would make him have sexual intercourse

and would make him a fake phallus, enormous.

But I couldn't do it!

It's terrible when the father takes all the power for himself.

The son is castrated - he's nothing, he's a child.

That's our civilization.

By taking the place of the father, he will touch his mother.

Fando can never be authentic.

He's an actor.

That's why I use a bad actor.

In reality, I wanted to play Fando myself,

but I couldn't do it, because I needed to direct

and I was tied to the photographer.

At that time, it was impossible to do what I did in El Topo,

where I could direct and act - it was impossible.

I took a young actor,

the only actor in this picture that I hated.

I really hated him.

He was blond, he had an ego - the big ego that actors have.

He played badly, and I didn't like how he played.

I tortured him during the shoot.

That's why the actor ended up hating me.

When the scandal came, he was the first one to make declarations

saying that I was a monster,

that I was a vampire that drank the blood of the actresses.

Today he's still my worst enemy.

That is reality, no?

But it was good for me,

because I think because you need

to hate something about that character.

You need to hate Fando, because Fando is a mix between love and hate.

And here he's opening the sex of the puppet and taking serpents.

They wanted to lynch me in Mexico. I don't know why.

I don't know why, it's so beautiful.

Always he returns from the world of adults,

to his find reality, his sincerity.

She's pure, she's real.

I made this with chocolate.

I wanted to create the image of a saint, a sexual saint.

Myself, I had a big love for the girl

and a big hatred for the boy.

But you can direct actors whilst hating the actor.

Myself, I hated that actor.

When I directed Peter O'Toole, I hated Peter O'Toole.

I wanted to kick Peter O'Toole.

They needed to hold me, because I hated him.

He's the person I hate most in my life.

I directed him like a dog.

I said, "Go to the right, go to the left."

I hated him.

That's the truth. It's true!

Fando has the sacrificial animal there, the Christ.

He's thinking about the crime.

In El Topo, I sacrificed these animals. It's the same imagery.

For me, the lamb is the image of the sacrificed soul, the sacrificed God.

Now we have this fashion for transvestites.

But at that time I had an assistant who was gay,

and I sent him to find in Mexico real drag queens.

These people are not actors, they live like that.

All these people were real transvestites who were hiding, out of society.

And here they were free.

The only one who's not real is the guy who's moving the arms and has no wig.

He was an actor who came here.

The others were all real.

Not one actor there. Only real people.

They were so happy to show themselves to the world.

And there, Fando and Lis are so astonished there. Big purity.

The most astonished one was the photographer.

He had never seen men like this.

I was tied to him and I said, "Shoot, shoot!"

What I did there, when I was working with Gavira,

the Mexican sound recordist,

I said, "You will put, at the first level, the sound."

I exaggerated the real sounds and made music out of them.

I was mixing reality and dreams...

...actors with real reactions.

Nothing of that was directed. We just shot it.

Those were their real reactions.

I wanted to shoot as you might shoot an accident.

I need to speak about the town where I lived until I was ten years old.

That is very important because in all my novels,

in all my pictures, it is there.

I was born in the north of Chile.

For three centuries, it never rained there.

It's the most dry place in the world. It's a desert.

Two years ago I went there,

because I want to have some earth from my town.

But there's no earth. There are little stones, but no earth.

The only place where there are trees,

there are eight trees, that's all you have, is in the center of the town.

They were the only trees that I knew.

The only birds that I knew.

It's in front of the ocean and ships from all over the world come there.

You have a street, a complete street of houses of prostitutes.

And the few people that came to the port go immediately there.

All my little friends went there -

the big adventure was to go there to see what happened.

And we masturbated in a circle, all the little boys.

All the little boys had a pointed sexual organ,

but mine was like a champignon,

like an atomic bomb, like a mushroom!

I was different. I was white, they were brown.

I had a mushroom and they had a point.

I was different.

And one day, the son of a prostitute came with a little package.

And he opened and he showed us a big adult sexual organ inside a box.

Because a sailor had died there...

...and the prostitutes cut it off as a joke.

And then they showed us.

We went to bury the sexual organ at the beach.

I think I had a hallucination, because I'm sure this is not true,

but I saw a big piece of rock coming,

floating in the ocean.

That opened my mind to miracles.

For me, it was a miracle. I think it was an hallucination,

because it's not possible, a huge rock floating in the ocean.

But I saw that.

We made a little cemetery for the sailor's genitals

and we put little flowers there.

This is why in Fando y Lis I played so much with cemeteries.

Because all of that was in my mind.

Do you see? She can walk.

That was a real catastrophe,

because the production rented the puppets

from a person who was a doctor of puppets.

They were very expensive puppets.

In the enthusiasm of the happening,

I destroyed, with ink, all the puppets.

It was very expensive!

We didn't have the money to pay! It was terrible, a catastrophe.

We needed to clean the puppets.

For days, we cleaned the puppets!

I called all my friends to help me.

When I started the happening, I never realized it would come to that.

Action painting.

The government lent me this room,

then they realized what I did to that room!

The blind person was a thief, a real thief.

In the streets he stole women's purses.

He came to know me. He was an admirer, so I put him here.

And the old person is a doctor,

a real doctor, who wanted to play that role.

I was mixing art with reality. I wanted real things.

In order to shoot the real reactions of Lis and Fando,

they are not acting there, they are doing it.

It's real blood.

He takes the real blood and he drinks the real blood.

It's not the time of AIDS. They were not afraid to do that.

This is what I was searching for.

Also, I didn't want to use actors.

I wanted to use people who were like the characters.

I think the doctor was a degenerate, a real degenerate.

He gives nothing to the poor man!

But this scene also has a symbolic meaning.

It's always the adults who are vampires

of the innocence of these two pure people.

It's always like that.

Fando is fascinated by the depravation of the world.

And that is Valerie.

Valerie is my ex-wife.

I had three children with her.

In my life, I have had five children with three different women.

Really she was helping me in Fando y Lis.

She was playing little parts.

Because I needed some kind of monster,

I couldn't use a normal woman.

Valerie was a normal, beautiful Mexican woman,

and it was so good of her to help me.

When I finished The Holy Mountain, we got married.

The biggest mistake of my life.

She was fantastic,

but when we got married she changed and she was terrible.

Marriage is a magic thing.

Sometimes when you get married, it's for the better,

but sometimes it's evil, it's terrible.

This girl was dancing in a cabaret in Mexico. She was a real cabaret dancer.

Her name is Fuensanta.

That is the mother.

She was a very famous soap opera actress,

a very decent television actress.

After this, for two years, she couldn't work in television!

She could not work! Maria Teresa Rivas.

I was not happy, because I wanted the actor to eat all these eggs.

He said, "You want to kill me?"

"Yes, I want to kill you, but eat the eggs!"

He didn't want to eat the eggs.

For me, in this scene, he would need to eat 20 eggs.

That is the father,

and the mother is saying that he was a revolutionary,

as the mother of Arrabal did.

This is why, in the picture, Fando is so full of hatred for Lis -

it's the hatred he has for his mother.

For the Egyptians, the soul was a bird.

But this soul will be eaten.

He cannot save his father.

It's impossible to save his father.

Later in The Holy Mountain, I make the same scene at the beginning -

I clean all of the appearance of fake femininity.

I'll cut the hair of the women, I'll create monks of the women.

Now he has the mother that he always wanted.

But these characters only realize what they want after death.

In The Holy Mountain, the secret producer was John Lennon.

Through Apple... they gave me the money. I had a lot of money.

With Oscar Ichazo, we made a contract of 17,000 dollars.

He had to visit me in person to disclose the 17,000 dollar deal.

He stayed in Mexico in a big hotel, and he came to me.

I was waiting, trembling because he was going to enlighten me.

I was trembling - I will know all the secrets of the world!

He put his hand in his pocket and took a paper with some powder in it -

it was an orange powder.

He said it was the best LSD. It was pure.

I went, "Never in my life have I had hallucinations."

He said, "Now you will have. Take that."

Then he mixed the powder in some water and I drank it.

After an hour, I'd had no hallucinations and he said,

"Wait, this is the best marijuana in Colombia."

Then he made me smoke a joint,

and it was fantastic.

I smoked it in front of a big window,

and I started seeing images from the history of painting -

Van Gogh, Renoir...

I was so happy to have a hallucination.

But it was only a hallucination.

That's like the circus, Walt Disney - it's a mystical Walt Disney!

And he made me look at myself facing a mirror,

and in the mirror I saw all my life.

I got old and became a mummy,

I had a face like an animal,

I realized what a monstrosity my body was.

I was an angel and a demon.

And then he said, "Go inside your heart."

And then I went inside my heart

and my heart was like an enormous golden cathedral,

and I discovered it was my big friend - my heart was my big friend.

It was not the instrument that would kill me,

it was my eternal big friend.

And I came to a sky of pure light.

And then I wanted to continue, but my master was snoring.

He was too tired.

The snoring of the master was the ultimate truth.

There I have dogs who are visiting the set.

They came to see us, but I don't know where they came from.

At the moment, when they were trying to make love,

two dogs came by.

He cannot make love to her,

because she had three people who raped her.

There was a little metaphor there.

There was a moon full of eggs. It's a very surrealistic image.

It's the image of the mother who is full of eggs.

It's a very nice story.

He will offer Lis to three adults,

just like the three people who raped her.

One of the three people is Juan José Arreola,

who is one of the biggest writers of Mexico - a writer and a poet.

Juan José Arreola was a very refined person,

and I asked him to act the part.

That's the boy who killed himself.

He's one of the characters.

I dedicated the picture to him.

Before I finished the picture, he died.

That's Corkidi, the photographer of the picture.

And that's Juan José Arreola. He's exactly how he was.

When he kissed Lis, he really fell in love with her

and he wanted to marry her.

It was a dramatic scene, he was in love with her.

A big scandal. He was crazy for her.

You have Corkidi, you have the Rosenberg boy who died,

and you have the big writer there.

The little girl who played Lis - her name was Diana Mariscal - came to see me.

I was in the theater making Fando y Lis.

And she said to me, "I am Lis.

"This week I was raped seven times."

- "What?" - "Yes, seven times."

So I said, "Then you are Lis."

And I took her for the role,

because I thought, "You are the character."

There. He falls in love there.

The costume was really his.

He copied it from a photograph of Marcel Proust.

After I finished this picture,

I had the picture for one year and no one wanted to do anything with it.

For a year, I didn't show the picture.

And during that year, the actress became anorexic

and just ate one egg and a coffee per day.

And when we showed the picture, she was a skeleton.

When she saw the picture, the public was already against me.

And then she said, "He's a vampire, he did that to me."

And I was like a criminal, you see?

I wanted, like all surrealist painters - to make theater, cinema,

drawings, poems, novels.

We admired Cocteau. He made cinema and poems.

We loved Leonardo Da Vinci, Pasolini.

We also loved Surrealism.

Breton was married to Elisa, a Chilean musician.

She played the piano and we became friends because we were Chilean.

And that's how I knew Breton.

After seven years, I came to Paris when I was 23 years old.

I telephoned him at three o'clock in the morning and I said, "I am here!"

He said, "Who are you? You're Jodorowsky, but who are you?"

I said, "I came here to save Surrealism.

"I'm the biggest moviemaker of Surrealism!"

- "What pictures have you made?" - "I've not made them yet.

"I want to see you immediately."

He said, "No, no, tomorrow at one o'clock. Not now, it's too late."

"No, no, you're a surrealist, now!"

- "No, tomorrow." - "Then never!"

I cut off the telephone, and for seven years I wanted to see him,

because I think a surrealist should have seen me.

Paranoia, eh?

After seven years, he received me because I knew his wife,

but Surrealism at that time was finished.

Surrealism hated rock 'n' roll,

it hated science fiction and it hated pornography.

At that time, there were no sex shops.

I had an enormous collection of pornographic photos

because I think that is art.

For me, pornography was a big mystery,

a magical mystery, a mystical mystery.

All of those enormous things going inside those enormous holes.

It was incredible.

They don't like that, they don't like publicity,

they don't like anything - not cowboys, not anything.

Surrealism was a romantic, poetical movement that was dying.

Politically they were Trotskyites.

We decided to go further than Surrealism,

and we created the Panic Movement.

The Panic Movement was a joke.

We decided to call everything we did Panic.

We can't renounce Panic. Everything you do is Panic.

We believe in confusion and disorder.

We believe that the artist needs to be inside his work.

If he makes a picture, he needs to go inside it.

If he writes a novel, he needs to get inside it.

The past, the present and the future are one thing. They're always there.

We made Panic and we laughed about that,

but the cultural group took that seriously.

Today, there are people who still make books about Panic,

who believe that Panic was a big movement, but it never existed.

It's a joke. Pop culture is an idiot.

That's why I like culture, because I like monsters.

And culture is a monstrosity.

You can laugh, and they still take that very seriously.

The biggest dirty minds are the university minds.

They take everything very seriously and they make studies.

But art doesn't need philosophers.

Art just needs to be communicated from soul to soul.

That's what I believe. And that's Panic.

A lot of these images you find later in Fellini's pictures,

but I made this before them.

They are in the picture Satyricon.

But those were before Satyricon.

In another way, Fando y Lis is a description of the human couple,

the man and woman.

And a neurotic relationship,

sadomasochism and dependence.

When I was doing the picture,

I was not aware of what I was saying.

This picture was not made with my mental part,

but with my unconscious.

It came directly from my unconscious.

Some people asked me why he was so angry when she destroyed the drum?

That is the last object of the little child paradise where he was.

He has lost everything.

He has nothing now.

The only little power, to make songs with the drum, is lost.

I like this image. For me, it's a poetic image.

This boy is a real person who lost his leg.

He represents all the people who are destroyed by the world.

The horse is the symbol of death.

A horse, when you see his face, is life,

but when you see his back, he's death, bringing you to the other world.

She became a popular saint.

They have scissors in order to cut pieces of her.

I'm sure someone would be able to cut a piece of Lady Di and eat it.

Maybe if a priest in the church gives for the Communion

little pieces of the flesh of Lady Di,

it would be a big success.

There I am joking with the Via Crucis of Christ.

Crazy dog.

In the beginning of the picture she said, "I will die and no one will come."

And he said, "No, I'll come to visit your grave

"with a flower and a dog."

He's realizing his promise there, no?

"I destroy you...

"If I were to destroy you, I'd discover that I love you.

"If I don't destroy you, I'll never know..."

Did you see? All the actors I put in the end.

I don't want to attract viewers by actors.

Listen, when I speak about Fando y Lis,

I'm speaking about 30 years ago.

For me, it's a big pleasure to speak about this picture,

because I realize it was my adolescent self who did this picture.

At that time, I couldn't say anything.

Every word that I said was a big scandal.

I think I like it!