Original subtitles

In 1963 World in Action made a film about these seven year old children

they talked about their homes, their schools and what they wanted to be

they were filmed again when they were fourteen

we've brought them all together to watch the films

because this year they are twenty-one

what are they doing now?

How have they changed?

What sort of people are they?

Stop it at once!

Give me a child until he is seven

and I will give you the man

When I leave the school I'm going to..

Colet Court

and then I will be going to Rossminster Boarding School

if I pass the exam

and then we think I'm going to

Cambridge and Trinity Hall

Well...

before I'm old and that, enough to get a job

I'll just walk around and see what I can find

I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah

When I leave school

I'm going to The Dragon School, I might

and after I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough

What about university Charlie?

I might go to Oxford

What does university mean?

Well...

Well I don't think I need to go to university

'cause I'm not going to be a teacher

I don't think you have to go to university

if you want to be an astronaut

When I leave this school

I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor

and then maybe I may want to go to university

but I don't know which one yet

I will buy myself a nice new made house, you know

One that's all nice and comfy

I'm going to work in Woolworths

Well, going to Africa

and try and teach people who are not civilised

to be, more or less good

When I grow up I'd like to

find out all about the moon and all that

It's just that the limitations of such things as :

What the audience require and the time

don't allow it to be a real study

I mean if we accept this

then it....

Okay I think it's probably good entertainment

I don't think we've changed that much

I think we talk, no I don't mean looks

I mean the way we talk I don't think we've changed that much

Well you never lose an Eastend accent do you

I tell you what, as it goes you've definitely changed

- You think so yeah? - In facial

You haven't changed a bit have you?

Don't you think so? I thought I'd got bigger

You might be about an inch bigger yeah

- An inch? - I know it's unbelievable

That's something I did notice, the way our teeth have changed

Teeth?

Yes

- Mine were out like that and I had them shoved back - Well I noticed the ears actually

Have you not noticed that a lot of people... your ears have been made real fun about them

They've got they're conclusions settled already

They must

...met here today and we've seen the films

and we feel as if we know everybody who is in the films now

has broken any class barriers that could previously existed

and therefore the film itself has

possibly defeated its own object

- They do lead me on a bit don't they - That's what I mean

and they hype the program up too much

Yeah

and make that you're good and I'm bad

- Or - Well Vice-versa I think

- No don't be silly - No I really do, especially the "7" one

People tend to read significance into it that I don't think exists

One of my friends for instance, had me pointed out to him as...

being destined to run the farm

and being educationally pretty inept, this is obvious from the film

At seven Nicholas was at a one room village school in the Yorkshire Dales

Do you have a girlfriend?

I don't want to answer that

I don't want answer those kind of questions

I thought that one would come up because when I was

When I was doing the other one somebody said

"what do you think about girls?" and I said "I don't answer questions like that"

is that the reason you're asking it?

- yeah - thought so

The best answer would be

to say that I don't answer questions like that but I mean..

you know it was what I said when I was seven

and it's still the most sensible but I mean, what about them?

Well you seemed at fourteen

very shy of the whole

sexual life, has that changed?

I've tried to make a change yes

a very definite conscious effort not to be shy

to be more outgoing

and this is actually something I can put a point to in my own past

and think yes I did make my mind up here, here and here

that I was going to try and change this, this and this

"this" being basically my confidence

and my

my sort of approach to

well this is to people in general

When I grow up I'd like to

find out all about the moon and all that

I mean

I'm not

when I said that I was interested in physics and chemistry well I'm not going to do that here

You might be able to get... somebody to ex...

will you explain this to me again

Nicholas is now in his 2nd year at Oxford University

Well I'm trying to be a physicist

to fill in the detail of

whenever you meet somebody at university that

the standard question is,

where are you and what are you doing?

and my answer is I'm at Merton College and I'm doing Physics

so it doesn't move up and down and just rotates

- OK - Then you put it in

We'll give it a whirl

So what career are you going to pursue?

It depends whether I'll be good enough to do what I want to really do

I would like if I can to do research

Are there any disadvantages in coming from a small place like this

and preparing yourself for Oxford?

Well it's a rather different background

to go any where, Oxford perhaps especially

it is a rather more firm foundation I would've thought

as to your

character? I don't? perhaps character

than being brought up in the city

It's a fixed reference point in a sense

that sort of earthy life and death cycle that you get

living on a farm

so when something dies it rots and feeds back into the earth

Sometimes it's helpful

in a city where things that some people are very concerned about seem quite irrelevant

Is there a new strength of your father as a farmer

that you think he's trying to teach you

Well you get a certain sort of calmness in some situations

take things as they come you become resigned to things

if the dog's chasing animals in the wrong direction then you just have to put up with it

if it won't do as it's told you become resigned to these things

I suppose yes that's one possibility

come on

come on lad

I suppose of all the seven year olds

the original ones, you are the big success

I am not inclined to accept that

Why? You wouldn't agree with that?

Well what have I achieved?

I'm not really prepared to accept that I've done anything very special yet

I'd like to think that....I mean I'm hoping that I might do at some stage

but I don't really think I've done anything that you can call a great success

It would seem really ridiculous to any of my friends who watch this if I said

"Christ aren't I a great success, look at me"

Well what? You know, what success?

I can't think of it in those terms

I haven't done anything that can be called success

nothing out of the ordinary really

Singing Waltzing Matilda in Latin

at an exclusive pre-preparatory school in London

Charles

Andrew

and John

I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools

because if we didn't

schools would be so nasty and crowded

Yes, so do I think so

The poor people would come rushing in and the man in charge of the school would...

Would you think there's any truth in the ideas behind the program that

certain people have more options than others and this is undesirable?

It's certainly true that more people know they have more options or imagine they have

I think in practical terms

the difference in numerical number of options isn't that great

the fact is that the three of us know that there's a whole range of things we can do

But the mere knowledge creates an option in itself, so I think we do have more options

and it is undesirable but it's very difficult to correct

I don't think it is undesirable at all

I think what's undesirable is people who have had options

don't make advantage of them, take best advantage of them

but I can't see there's anything wrong

as long as people don't abuse the opportunities and privileges they've had

If people behave responsibly I think it's very good

they're the sort of stability and structure in society

We've been taught to expect more

it's not that because we've been to private schools

we're not better qualified necessarily

- No - Yes I agree with that

It's a matter of expectations

Yes I must say, all this talk about opportunities

something I did slightly object to in the program was

we were shown at the age of seven

outlining the academic career that most of us did in fact pursue

each sentence ended up "John is at Westminster"

Andrew is at Charterhouse and everything

implied that we just sailed through, merely manifesting an intention at the age of seven

we didn't show the sleepless nights, the pouring over our books

sort of, you know

all the sweat and toil that got us through to university

it was presented as if it was just part of some

indestructible birth right that we went to all these places

and I thought that was unfair, they didn't show us having to do beastly jobs in the holidays

y'know, to make ends meet and things

it didn't give a very real sort of...impression

The three girls are earning

income wise they're far better off than I imagine all three of us are, certainly I am

and background wise

in terms of qualifications or the means of achieving their ends

they probably have just as many options as we do

Jaqueline

how do you think about coloured people?

Well they're nice, they're just the same as us really

but, one thing

it's only 'cause their skin's brown and we're white

sort of pinkish we are

Jackie, Lynn and Susan

they went to primary school together in the Eastend of London

Lynn chose to go on to a grammar school

and Jackie and Susan to a comprehensive

There is a danger that you would get married at early twenties and

have children quickly and then be stuck at home

have you any thoughts on that?

- I don't really think about it much - No

I don't think I'd eh....

get married to early

I'd like to have a full life first and

- I'd like to enjoy myself before I... - Meet people and...yeah

Before you can commit yourself to a family

What would you do if you had lots of money? about two pounds

I would buy myself a nice new made house you know

one that's all nice and comfy

Jackie was married last year and now lives on a new estate in Essex

- It's a nice estate - Yeah - Yeah not bad at all

What are they like the neighbours? Have you seen a lot of them or what?

Well you know, to say hello to more than anything, I mean

we borrow things off of her, which is just as well

- That's what neighbours are for isn't it? - Yeah right!

Here, It's a similar colour scheme down here moving up stairs isn't it?

Yeah but this was more by luck than judgement really

- Was it like this when you came? - No it was all white

but you can imagine the state it was in

friends had some paint handy so Dad and Mick just used the rollers and in a day it was done

two coats, wallop! that was it

Susan is still single

I work for a travel company

they don't deal with the public, they deal with groups and company groups

it's sort of incentive, holidays abroad and conferences, that sort of thing

which I like because I like foreign places

and I have to do eh....

I do quite a bit of typing

but a lot of my work is involved in making bookings

and dealing with hotels abroad

I left school and started work...

for an Australian bank and I'm still there

and I've been there what? Three and a half years now

I've done various jobs within the bank

I started off as a telephonist-typist

which was very interesting actually, you'd be surprised the sort of calls you get

Then I went on to work the NCR machine

which is the actual machine that processes the accounts

and counter work dealing with clients money and things like that

I'm going to work in Woolworths

Well I'm a school mobile librarian and assistant to the young peoples office

Which is where we are now

and I've been here since August last year

Lynn is now married but still lives and works in the Eastend

I visit schools with the van

where they've not got position to get into a local library for class visits

I love working with children

do you remember on the last one I wanted to teach?

Well I didn't get to that

and seeing how it is today I'm glad I didn't

the job situation for all teachers as it is

and I think it takes a lot more patience than I've actually got

I'm much more at home here

- Have I stamped yours? - Yes

I've not stamped yours

Sleeping Beauty

I've lost the stamp!

Do you sleep like a beauty?

What do you say?

Thank you

I definitely make a point in reading all my new books I get in

It's quite funny, I take loads of books home

and people come and say "who are these kids books on the table?"

- "They're mine" - "Oh"

Then they sort of shut up

At the moment a career's probably about the furthest thing from my mind

and I don't really know what I'm aiming for except to get the house together

and that can take years, as fast as you replace one thing something else needs replacing, so ...

it could just go on like that, I don't know

Well admitting that you're not a career girl

does it mean that you're therefore looking for a family?

Oh I don't know, I suppose I am

But erm..

every thing's not that cut and dried

it's not either career or family or...

but is what's in the middle, am I just going to carry on as I am now? for?

and end up .....on the shelf?

or am I just going to get married? could be any day, but

I suppose Lynn is a career girl in a way isn't she?

Yeah she's more wrapped up in her job than I think we are

and you all three were sat there at seven and she's gone that way and you've gone this way

is there? can you?....

think of any reasons why that should be?

I think just basic personality, Lynn's always been that little bit different from us

She's always been more serious as far as studies are concerned

I didn't feel like going to a grammar school, I just er...

you know, comprehensive school it just seemed more friendly

At that time that is, but now a little bit different

- Grammar school's fantastic - If you say so!

When I leave this school

I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor

and then maybe I may want to go to university but I don't know which one yet

This is Susie

the product of a private education and wealthy parents

What do you think about making this program?

I just think it's ridiculous, I don't see any point in doing it

Why not?

What's the point of people going into peoples lives and saying:

"Why do you like this and why don't you?" I don't see any point in it

Well I didn't want to do it when I was fourteen

I know I was very difficult because I was very anti doing it

because I was pressurised into doing it by my parents

and I hated it

and I vowed I'd never do it now

but here I am

I'd like to do...

short hand typing or something like that

I left school when I was sixteen, went to Paris

went to secretarial college and got a job

What made you decide to leave school and go to Paris?

I just wasn't interested in school and just wanted to get away

and why did you choose Paris?

I don't know, it was my parents really

Did you sort of feel the need to get away? and why?

Well I'd lived in London or Scotland

and I knew people who were going out to Paris and so I thought I'd go as well

Comparing yourselves to Susie

who stands at the other end of the social scale

do you think you've had the same opportunities as her?

I've had the opportunities in life that I've wanted

I'd say I've had more opportunities than Susie

I'd say I've had more opportunities than her

in a different aspect to what she's had them

But eh, my life, I've been able to do more or less what I wanted to do

I'm not going to say it on film, what i feel for her

But I think she's been so conditioned into what she should do and what she shouldn't do

Yeah but I mean

The whole thing is you're saying "do we envy anything Susie's had?"

No

I mean I don't know

I don't know what Susie's had, what's Susie had that I haven't had?

I mean, until I know that I can't honestly say whether I envy her

- She's had money and she's travelled - I've got money!

Maybe not enough but I've got it!

I have been to Honolulu with my father about two years ago

for a couple of months

which I didn't really enjoy

there's nothing much out there, there's no meet people my own age out there

and I hated it and I was glad to come home

apart from that I've been to France on holidays

I'm going to Australia in the summer

for about two months

otherwise I don't know where I'm going to go and I'd like to go and travel more

Why?

Well I don't think there's any point in sitting in your own country

I'd like to see how people live on the other side of the world

Tell me about the Australian trip

Well I'm going in July for about two months with my cousin

her elder sister's married out there

and we're just going out to....

see what it's like

we're going to not work out there, we're only going for two months

We just feel if we don't go now we never will

We've got the opportunity and the time to go now so we're going

How are you going to pay for it?

Save up and go

Do you get depressed by money problems?

No, why? Why should you?

- If you can manage on what you've got - I refuse to get depressed over money

- It's so easy to but why should you? - I do, I do

Why worry about it?

When I reach the 18th day of the month and my mortgage is due on the 20th

and there's nowhere near enough money in there, I get depressed about it obviously

Suddenly thinking, oh my god what's going to happen, you know

But it gets there, don't ask me how but you get it

Do you think you've settled down to young?

No

I've married and we do things together, or...

I go out on my own sometimes with friends from work

he does the same, what do you mean by settled down?

If you think that getting married as far as we're concerned is a case of

going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby, going to bed, getting up, going to work

you're totally mistaken

Did you meet enough men before you decided who to marry?

I've been married a year and...

a couple of months

you do think "christ, what have I done?"

- See I've still got my ideals - and I'm being honest about it!

and my husband thinks the same, at times you think "christ, what have I done?"

- But then if... - But marriage...

Marriage means a different thing to me

I've still got my ideals about marriage, I don't know what it's all about, obviously

So I've still got pictures of

- Cosy evenings indoors...yeah - With roses!

She'd have cosy evenings indoors with the central heating!

Or lack of it!

- Yeah, I've got a lot to learn about .... getting married

I mean, your parents split up soon after you were fourteen

What sort of influence, effect did that have on you?

Well I was the only child going through their parents splitting up aged 14

at a very vulnerable age and it does touch you up, but...

You know, you get over it

There was no point in them staying together for me

if it was worse, I mean the rows and...

and it's worse

so if two people can't live together there's no point in making yourself

even for the sake of children

What is your attitude towards marriage? for yourself?

Well I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought as I'm very cynical about it

But then you get a certain amount of faith restored in it

I mean I've got friends and their parents are happily married

and it does put faith back into you but me myself I'm very cynical about it

Why?

Because I think it kills whatever love is

it just seems to go wrong

What do you base that on?

Well, people I've seen, people around me

I mean I've got....not a lot of my friends are married

a lot of people who are 20,30 all seem to be getting divorced and can't stay together

and at the moment I just don't really believe in it

Why do you think people can't hold marriages together?

I don't know, I really don't know

I don't sort of sit down and think "ooh ...analyse marriage"

It's not something I've had to think about whether I was going to get married

and I've got no desire to at the moment, I think twenty is far too young

What was the wedding like?

Our wedding? a laugh!

I wanted, white wedding, all trimmings

My husband would've been satisfied with very little

but being as we were going into it as a full thing

we went into it

I had an all white wedding, all white

We were both in white and my bridesmaid was in white

It's a funny day actually

because I suppose I was up somewhere around the five o'clock mark

and I spent all day preparing

well all morning I should say

and then sitting around for about three hours

just waiting for something to happen then when it did happen I don't remember it

So

it was just complete confusion really

- It was a nice day though - Oh yeah

It was funny actually, you can imagine some of the comments

I was pleased I was there, it seemed the right place to be

I mean I was glad I was at her wedding, I've known her a long while

Did anything happen? Anything funny?

I can�t forget the cake

It was horrific really, the cake what happened to the wedding cake

it was sitting right in between Mick and myself

suddenly the columns just completely gave way and it just all fell into one

- It was a nice cake though! - Yeah it wasn't bad!

I read the Financial Times

I read the Observer and the Times

What do you like about it?

Well I like...

I usually look at the headlines then read about them

about it

I like my newspaper because I've got shares in it

- and I know every day what the shares are - The stuff that misers like you like!

But on Monday's they don't move up so I don't look at it

That's one of the troubles with this sort of program, I don't really think that people like us

Unless we're seven and being rather funny, have very much to say that's...

very interesting, because I mean...

we don�t know very much

Well we didn't know very much when we were seven

- But we were still quite funny - We were at least funny!

- Yes! - Yes! - In ourselves!

I agree with John, all we can say is what we think

and if that's of interest to people, good luck to them

Yes and I can't believe it is

More fool them!

When I leave this school I'm going to College Court

then I would be going to Westminster Boarding School if I pass the exam

and then we think I'm going to

Cambridge and Trinity Hall

John is in his final year at Christchurch Oxford, reading Law

I do believe parents have a right to educate their children as they think fit

I think someone who works on an assembly line in a car factory, earning a huge wage

could well afford to send their children to private school if they wanted to

Just because..

some sort of people perhaps don't put that as high on their priorities as...

having a smart car or something

I don't think that's any reason for abolishing public school

I think an awful lot more people could afford to send their sons to school

You know, to fee paying school

But they don't choose to, and that's their choice

I'm going to Charterhouse

and after that, Trinity Hall Cambridge

Andrew is in his last year at Trinity College Cambridge, reading Law

I think if people earn their money they should have a right to spend it

an education is very important

and you can never be sure of leaving your children any worldly goods but

at least you can be sure that once you've given them a good education

that's something that no one can take away

What about university Charlie?

I might go to Oxford

You're reading history at Durham University, you didn't make Oxford

What are your feelings about that?

I don't mind at all

In fact

I'd say I'm pleased I didn't

because it was very much a sort of

sort of set of Marlborough Prep School

Marlborough, Oxbridge, conveyor belt

you get shoved out at the end

and you...

when you go to Oxbridge and it's obviously not true in all cases but

I think for the majority

they mix with the same people they were at school with

So what attracts you to Oxford?

Well first of all it's such a beautiful place

there's more to it than just studying away at one's books

I think it's very difficult not to get something out of it

there�s such a sort of...

atmosphere of culture and...

and timelessness about the place that I think you do sort of mature an awful lot

So what is Beagling?

Beagling is the hunting of the hare

with a pack of hounds, done on foot

I mean a lot of people seem to imagine

a days hunting with either fox to hunt or beagles

unadulterated butchery. I mean this just isn't true, I think

I wish people had a more realistic idea of what it's about

The hounds are over there I think

I saw them last streaming along that hedge there

- Frustrating isn't it? - Yes

I'm reasonably old fashioned about some things but I mean

I mean people who go on a lot about the permissive society are missing the point

if they think the only thing that's wrong is sex

I think you know, decreasing respect for the family as a unit

increasing dishonesty, both in business....

there used to be much more much stronger developed ideas of commercial integrity

than seem to be going around nowadays, nowadays people seem to be out for themselves

I really do think I suppose there is an invasion by the American way of life

which I think is a very sad thing

Is that unstoppable? That trend do you think?

I think it really is unfortunately, yes

So where does that leave your values?

Well it leaves them with me

and my future children whom I shall implicate them in

But do you not find yourself isolated?

That really doesn't matter

If I believe my principals are right

and I'm doing the right thing to bring my children up by them

it won't matter to me whether I'm living in the middle-ages mentally

I shall do what's right

Well when I was very small my father always used to go ski-ing

and he took me with him

and we've been ever since really

and how old or young were you when you started?

Oh about five, on tiny little ski's

it was quite frightening then

what is the appeal of it?

Well the sort of freedom and going in the snow and the mountains

and the feeling of speed

and getting away from people if you can

Do you save up to come ski-ing or...?

I don't but my father does

as he pays for me

Your parents have been divorced since fourteen

- Since you were fourteen - That's right, quite recently yes

Tell me about that and the influence it's had on you

Well not much influence in fact

because it's happened when I'm quite old

and I'm away from home a lot anyway

it's very sad of course

but I don't think it has had a great deal of influence

if it had happened when I was much younger

it would've had much more influence

an adverse influence I would've thought

Did your parents divorce leave any lasting mark on you?

I don't know, I mean

seen the film at fourteen so

and that's of our closest time, I would've thought it did but...

don't talk about that anyway so...

Why?

I think it's unfair on them

Very few parents I think, bring up their children...

with the intention of belittling them or doing as little for them as possible

I think

you have to assume that most parents do as much as they can

given the circumstances of the children

and obviously things could've been far worse

Do you think it's changed your attitude to marriage? or...

It just means that

because I was faced with that situation I have an attitude which is a positive attitude

rather than "well everybody else gets married therefore I shall get married"

My attitude would be that if one is going to have children

if you want to have children then that's a very real reason for getting married

but if you get married...

it's an agreement to make the thing work for eighteen years

or however long it is until the children have grown up

no there's no point in just sitting it out for eighteen years

there's nothing worse than that, it would be better for the parents to get a divorce

I think people

perhaps don't make as much effort

as they should have, or should do to make marriages work

it's very easy for me to say so as I've never been in the position

In what way should people make more effort?

I think people just take too much for granted when they get married

or used to, not now perhaps

I mean, I don't know about you for instance

I know my mother, she's said that

she's spoilt really

and she never realised how lucky she'd been until she'd been divorced

Up to about twelve

maybe it's different with other people, but

I found that you're much more attached to your parents

once you come to about thirteen, fourteen

you're not quite so attached to them

I think the system of having house captains

is rather good

because when somebody is naughty

the house captain asks him and...

and has a talk to him

once I had a talk to Grevil, he was in my house

and

I asked Sir if he could put him out of my house because he was always getting minuses

What did Sir say?

Sir said that he would...

we would see about it this term

Well I think it's a very good system

Have you had to speak to anyone?

- Just because you are one I suppose? - No, no I haven't!

- You're not are you? - But I am!

Straw, Mac and Nessie got three minuses in a day

If I work in Law I should like a reasonable amount of success

I shouldn't like to be on the bread-line which is all to common

I'd like to be a Solicitor

and, also fairly successful

I only know what I don't want and that's

a nuclear family in a semi-detached in Brentford

Do you three see yourselves...

staying in England, living in England, making your careers in England?

Yes

Well the trouble is Law is not really very exportable

From my point of view anyway

I quite like England

'cause I can't say I really approve very much of the sort people who emigrate

I mean it's too easy for people who...

this is where I would agree with you about people who have had opportunities

I do think they've got a corresponding duty to sort of put back....

you know, people who have had things going well for them

really ought to stay and help the country out when things aren't going very well

I don't believe in all this pulling one's money out

but that's a moral point of view, I do believe people have the right to live where they like

and also to move their assets around

but on a moral level I do feel very strongly that people shouldn't quit

- Is that why you don't want to leave? - Yes

and also I can't imagine anywhere so nice as England

Probably stay in England for the reasons that John put forward, I think one has a moral duty

It sounds terrible but, you know...if...

It's up to one certainly to make an attempt

to put something back in to whatever it is that you're doing in England

Having used the various facilities that are put out for you by the state

I think the more you've had out of the country

the more privileges you're born with

the greater your duty is

We chose two boys from a children's home in Middlesex

Paul

Say you had a wife

say you had to eat what they cooked you

and say I don't like vegetables, well I don't

and say she said "you have to eat what you get"

So I don't like vegetables so say she gives me vegetables then that's it

Well as far as I know my mother and father got...

well they separated originally I think

they eventually got divorced

I went to the boarding school for one year then we emigrated to Australia

my father got remarried

and how do you get on with your step-mum?

pretty well but like I said before I'm just not close enough

I'm not really close to my father either

Paul left the children's home when he was eight

Our other boy stayed until he was thirteen

Symon

Was it difficult moving from the home back to live with your mother?

- You're still here after, eight years now? - Yeah yeah

Well I find it's comfortable

See I can get on well with my mother sometimes

well that's good because a lot of ...

young children can't get on with their parents at all at this time of the year, their life

but I get on pretty well with my mum now

we talk very well with each other

but it's..

sometimes not quite as mother and son

sort of more like friends

What sort of life does your mother have?

Well it seems hard, I mean she's always been...

nervous

not all the time, but...

she has periods of depression or deep depression or whatever you want to call it

that sort of makes me think "well what happened there?"

What effect has that had on you do you think?

Well it's made me very sort of protective towards her

I feel I've got to help her all the time

They say "Where's your father then?"

You know when your mums out at work "Where's your father?"

and I just tell them I ain't got one

What effect has that had on you?

Well I don't think it's had any effect on me, 'cause...

what you don't have you don't miss

Twenty years ago

when I was born

an illegitimate child, you know

that's something that's only whispered about

people feel strongly about it in those days

but nowadays it's..

it's not a serious matter

the serious point is whether you stay with someone or you leave them

We took Paul and Symon round the buildings which were once the children's home

I remember this path but I've never walked on it was out of bounds

the only place I saw this was from out the windows and that

- What was that there? - That? That was eh...

That was hospital juniors, that's where we used to be

- Really? - Yeah

I don�t like the big boys

Hitting us and...

and the staff is up in the washroom

sends the nurse out, "well there's no talking"

"No I wasn't talking today"

Then Brown sent me out for nothing

Remember the tiles?

- No not really - Yeah I remember them when they were cleaner

- I remember the two offices - Yeah the doctors and the nurses

Some things gone

- The seats - Yeah the seats

The smell, the smells gone

- Remember Midgely - Yeah

He was a real bastard

I remember one night, I forget what I actually did

But he made me clean all the shoes in the house

there was about fifty pair of shoes and took about two hours or something

Well I feel like joining in when there's already a fight

Ah do you remember Froggy Page?

No

He was the tailor

- I remember him - Tailor?

Yeah he was here for thirty-seven years or something

bent over backwards or bent over forwards or something

- The golf course - Yeah

Used to think about running away over that when you'd get scared

That's where the headmaster's son used to shoot the squirrel's off the trees isn't it - yeah

Do you remember the boy that

in the senior part

where my brother was, he

he was sleeping one time and he went out the second story window

Oh the sleep walker, Weaver, Robert Weaver

- We all had to pray for him - Yeah

- Everybody said he had a steel plate in his head - Yeah

How have you got on with Symon? after you haven't seen him for fourteen years

Well I didn't recognise him at all

I think we got along really well, I don't know what he'd say to that but

I found him very likeable

He's just the sort of person who if I could I'd like to do something for them

Because I feel I've got, no offence to him, but I feel I've got more than him

It's just that it seems to me that

things have fallen into line now for me

Every thing's started to come good, I've started to enjoy life

and I've started to think "well I'm not a no hoper"

Because I think that's what I've always thought about myself

I know I didn't have any confidence in myself

despite what I said when I was fourteen

I've always lacked confidence

I still do to a certain extent but nothing

nothing like I did say when I was fourteen

The job I'm in, I mean, brick laying

I mean I enjoy it, it interests me

and I'm very content at work

in June last year I was made a junior partner

though that was through circumstances

but I look at it this way

I'm not great with my life

but if I wasn't good enough and my boss didn't think I was good enough

he would've never made me a junior partner

as for the job

you know, you build a house

then you turn around and look at it and say "well I did that"

it's better than having a whole row of figures

it's substance you know, there's something there

Symon works in the freezer room of a meat company near his home in Middlesex

My job�s running away from me

You do jobs which I suppose are fairly routine and dull

- Yeah - What keeps you going during them?

Oh it's definitely the people there

You work up a kind of team spirit there, y'know what I mean

You can .....

think about all the work you've got to do in the morning

and you just don't want to go

but once you get there just sort of generally....

I was going to say messing around there, I won't say that

the managers might see it

sort of joking about

they make you feel you want to get the work done

Go out and get some

just ask for them

and we always say

when we come out of the chiller we don't want to go back in

but when we get back in we get on with it

So are you a good time keeper?

Ah it depends

Usually I try to get to work early

but I have periods of where I just say "sod it"

if I get there I get there

I think the hardest thing is to get up in the morning

for me it takes a great deal out of me now

Do you never feel you should be doing better jobs than these?

Aren't you worth more than this?

No I haven't really

I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know

But eh...

It's never really sort of worried me

I suppose it should but it just hasn't

and how do you see the future as far as work goes?

Well I know I can't stay at Walls forever, I mean it's just not me

I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead

But eh...

I think if I really wanted to I could learn a trade, even now

Y'know if I really felt that I ought to get out and do something different

I could learn a trade if I wanted to

and what would you like to be doing say in seven years?

Well I couldn't really say I haven't thought one year ahead yet

I think I'm still sort of young in my head

I don't really sort of take things seriously

All I want out of life is to be happy

and when I say happy I want to be happily married as well

because I can't say I don't want to get married

because I think I do

but I want to be happily married y'know

therefore I want to make sure I think

How would you define happiness? What is it?

Basically to me it's the will to live

I mean, me I literally love life, I love people

I mean I think before I didn't

I mean, when I was fourteen I said

I've forgotten what the question was but I said

something about I want to be alone

and when I said that I know even now I meant that

if someone had dropped me out in the Sahara Desert

I probably would've been happy more or less if you get the point

Whereas I'm not like that now, I'd sooner be around people

I don't like doing things by myself

and happiness to me is a love for life and a love for people

I think I admire people with great determination

y'know like people who just come up from nothing

they build up their life from absolutely nothing

I could say Muhammad Ali

because he absolutely came from nothing

I mean you can't agree with everything he says but his word goes down now

he's the biggest thing in sport he's one of the biggest things in life

I mean people like him

What when you look at yourself do you think your weaknesses and strengths are?

I think my main weakness is I don't really take a grip of life

I don't really look...

I always look deeply into it but it just seems to be ...

just a sort of hobby with me, I look at everything and I criticise it

and I work everything out but after that I just sort of leave it

I find it hard to express emotion most of the time

although I'm getting on top of that

more happy now?

just the simple things to say to Susan, y'know "I love you" or something like that

I mean I can tell you about it but

I really haven't been able to say it freely to Susan

I suppose that's a weakness

Do you have a dream?

A dream? not....

Not so much a dream but I know if I ever wanted to get on I could do it

I mean I always feel that I've got something inside me that would make me move

But eh...

I think what it is really is I'm just waiting for an excuse to use it

Y'know at the moment I feel ok just getting on with my life

just sort of keeping up

but I know if I really wanted to I could get on

It'll only take a little spark with me to do it

Is it important to fight? Yes

Would everybody please sit round now and get on with their work

I don't want to see any backs to me

Shouldn't be anybody turning round, Tony do you hear aswell?

Get on with your work in front

Tony!

Don't turn round again

I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up

Tony left his Eastend secondary modern school at fifteen

and became an apprentice at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom

This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newberry

I'm the one with the white cap

I was beaten a length and a half for third and had a photo finish

so I took it out the box and kept it as a souvenir

Have you any other pictures of you as a jockey?

Yeah I've got a lot of them

Show me that one

That one when I was at Windsor

that was my last ride on the old horse, Sharrod Heath that was

he was a lovely old horse, I'll never forget him

How many rides did you have?

Only three

Why was that?

Well obviously if I was good enough I would've had more

that was the first day I ever put myself in jockey silks

that was my first ride ever

How did it feel like?

It feel like there's no words that can explain how it felt

that one was when I was going to the parade ring

They're not very good

my brother, I mean he's not no good at taking photos

He's no Lord Snowdon

But describe the feeling, go on

Describe, well....I mean I..

Frankie Durr right, he was told to look after me

so I went in there I said "I don't know my first ride"

and he said "alright don't worry, your boss has told me to look after you"

and so

I was changing into my silks

and I felt good y'know, I could see all the faces that I think

and when I look at the newspaper I think, Jeff Lewis, Frankie Durr and...

I thought to myself all of a sudden I'm in the same room getting changed

Then I walked in the parade room

the parade ring and eh...

and all my family's there and they're all going "Go on Tone!"

and the boss came over and he said

you've got to do this to the horse, you hold him back, you go half pace

keep your hands down, keep him in the rails

and I'm going "yeah yeah" like, nod

and all of a sudden when he said "Jockeys please mount"

and the bell went "Ding ding"

and my heart just sunk because I thought to myself

Here I was yesterday a sort of nobody

and here I am today, I'm king like

I felt king for one day, well for ten minutes

Do you regret not making it?

Well I would've given my right arm at the time to become a jockey

But now...

well I wasn't good enough, it's as easy as that

What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey?

I don't know

If I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game

wouldn't bother

and what do you think you would do then?

Learn taxi's

Taxi driver

I will be a cab driver right, how can I fail?

I got one brother taxi driver pulling me

and the other brother pushing me so I got to make it

I will be a cab driver and I know I will

and I'm going to prove every person who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong

and I'm going to get that badge and put it right in their face

just to tell them how wrong they can be and how under estimated I am

Doing the taxi knowledge means Tony going out on his motorbike every day

and learning the hundreds of routes round the streets of London

Well I can just get up, go on my bike, do two runs, come home

call them over then boom, I've done my days work then I go out here and earn my money

Hackney Wick it's my sort of living

I can say until the time I am a cab driver

But mean my freedom's here and that is the main thing what I want

Tony spends his spare time at Hackney Wick Greyhound Stadium placing bets for the punters

Fifty-five to twenty Boris

Five to one Cooladine

Four and a half fifty's, four and a half fifty's

Poor-Sunshine fourteen to one

Take it, take it!

If your father gambles you always looked upon how he gambles

I tried my luck and see what he does

and I took it from there, it's sort of in you

some people drink and they can't get out of drinking, some people smoke and can't stop smoking

well I think I'm firmly on the ground as a gambler

I know you can't win gambling, putting money on the dogs and horses, I know that

But when you put other peoples money on you can't lose

What do they call you here?

I reckon a pest, or something like that

'cause I'm always running and doing everything that I shouldn't be doing

I thought I was going to get barred one day 'cause I used to...

Well I don't mean to make a nuisance of myself

I mean if the other patrons of the place

they don't want to see a little boy nipping between their feet

running, putting a bet on for a person

You understand? they think "cor what's he doing is he mad?"

I mean I walk up there I order the teas

There could be eight people in front of me, I just go...

Can I have a tea please, tea please, five times

tea please tea please

and they've got to serve me before them to get rid of me, do you understand?

So that�s how you've got to do it

Just keep on and on and on and they go

"oh driving me mad, here you are, get rid of him" it's as easy as that

That's the way to get on in life, just be a noise, annoyed

annoyance all the time to a person and they go "oh he's driving me mad, get him away from me

and more or less they give you the first option

sort of find that

You're very short, has that had much trouble?

Well a bird said to me the other day

She said "ain't you small"

So I said "but you're ugly at least I can grow"

What can they say to that? they can't say nothing can they?

to a thing like that, or...

or example...

She said to me "Ain't you small" so I looked at her tits and she was only about a thirty

I said "But you're not too big either so we're both in the same way"

- Have you got a girlfriend? - No

Would you like to have a girlfriend?

No

Do you understand "The Four F's?"

Find the, feed them, forget them

for the other F I'll let you use your own discrimination

I mean...

this one

I tried to do the three F's

but I couldn't forget her

I'd done the three F's but I couldn't forget her

It sounds silly but that's the only way I can put it

Tell me about the family, are you fairly closely knit?

Well I love them all

There's not one I don't love more than the other, other than my mum obviously

but your mum is the root of the tree, you love your mum best

So what do you like about living in the Eastend?

It's very sort of real, there's nothing false

only the police!

I'm firmly placed and there's no way I can see getting out, I wouldn't want to get out really

It's very hard to make it in the Eastend because the roots are firmly stuck in the ground

and you've got to have a big hard pull to get them out

So are there many villains in the Eastend?

There has been in the time I suppose

the originals were the Kray twins

We're in Vallance Rd now, as it goes they used to live here

in a house they used to call Fort Vallance

'cause it was that hard to get into I expect

Do you have much to do with villains?

I can't say I have much to do, I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself

I don't go thieving and don't do anybody any harm fighting wise

I'm trying to say that

Wherever you go there's villains and whether you mix with them or not it's up to you

Does it worry you the possibility of becoming one of them?

How can I become a villain?

If it's not in there, it's not born in there you won't become one

Don't you think you're going to regret not having an education?

Where does that come into it? it doesn't come into it in my mind?

Education is just a thing to say "my son is higher than him"

or "my son had a better background than him"

I mean

I'm as good or even better than most of them people

especially on this program

I mean

On one of the trailers you'll think

oh the Eastend boy and he ain't got a no good education

but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car and a motorbike and he goes to Spain every year

and whatever

and have I worked for it?

No I'm here putting bets on

and you think "how does he do it?"

and there's a boy, who's he? and whatever

he's studying to be a professor, he's making up things

They're mainly education, there's no education in this world

Just one big rat race and you've got to

kill your man next to you to get in front of him

What do you think about trade unions and things like that?

I don�t under know I don't

I don't know enough to know about them if you understand me

I mean

I'm not a politician so let them worry about what's coming for the next day

all I understand is

dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares and mum and dad and love

that's all I understand that's all I want to understand

Here you are

Come on three chase it

Come on boy

Go on three inside

Come on three???

He's checking everywhere....

Well going to Africa

and try and teach people who are not civilised

to be more or less good

No I don't want to be a missionary because I just can't talk about it to people

Y'know, I am interested in it myself but I wouldn't be very good at it at all

and I wouldn't enjoy it

Why wouldn�t you be good at it

Well I'm just not very good at...

at standing up in front of people and making a speech or anything like that

I'd like to keep it private, y'know

Is it possible you might ever think of going to the church?

It is possible, I've never said no definitely

But I wouldn't be doing it after I go to university

I mean it's just possible in ten years time I suppose

What would draw you to the church?

I don't know, it wouldn't be dissatisfaction with whatever I'm doing at the moment

In a way

If whatever I was doing I was doing very successfully

then that would be a better reason for going into the church really

or at least if I did go into the church it would meant I was giving something up

But

I think the wrong reasons are if you are dissatisfied with what you're doing

in the general sense of doing a job badly or

a failure in some sort of way

Bruce is in his final year at University College Oxford, reading mathematics

and by Eisenstien you can show that this is irreducible

then you do a transformation on this ???? x = to T+2

which you find is T cubed plus 17 squared plus 14 T plus 7

and

you observe that seven which is a prime

divides the co-efficient of T squared

T and the constant, not T cubed

and seven squared doesn't divide the constant term

so by Eisenstien

this is irreducible

so therefore two cross, two by seven is of degree three

and that length isn't constructable

from the quarry of our original theorem

so therefore the septagon's not constructable

Well that's a nice way of doing it, particularly using Eisenstien down here

his test is very popular, he was an interesting mathematician

What sort of job are you going to try for?

Well there was one job, I'd like to make maps really

and it's nice sort of outdoor life

you go to...I mean you travel around

and eh...

but there are very few jobs like that going

I'm sort of qualified, a general maths or science degree would do

or geography degree

But eh...

I think I've probably missed it this time round

and eh....but that's only....

perhaps I won't like making maps, it's something that I think I would do

Millbrook probably had a great influence on me in a way

I mean I was absolutely shocked rigid when I went to my prep school

and found people who thought of doing things wrong

I never really upset anyone or questioned authority

or misbehaved in any of my two later schools

which may seem an ideal thing but it's probably healthy to question why you have to do certain things

which I never did

Bruce was a border at this pre-preparatory school from the age of five

Squad left foot in one place

squad breathe in

Well it is mainly this lack of responsibility

for doing jobs given to me

people will say "why haven't you done this? Look you've upset us"

I was secretary of bridge society, chess society, cricket society

Scottish dancing society

and I didn't do anything for any of them, they were all very angry

and I spent last summer term in total seclusion

I saw maybe half a dozen people all term

in my room, darting across courts

people would say "I saw Balden today" and they'd say "No? really?"

it was awful really

My hearts desire is to see my daddy who is six thousand miles away

Y'know I've been getting on well with my step-father

and I like seeing my father occasionally

and he does come over from Rhodesia

What effect has the fact that you've seen very little of your father had on you?

Nothing really, I only ...something I regret that...

I didn't really get to know him better at all

We've written and we're both very bad writers, I'm probably worse than him

and eh...

that's something I regret is not having a just a regular correspondence

because I think he's an interesting man actually

and eh...

he probably regrets it as well

What do you think about your own upbringing?

what have been the strongest influences on that?

Probably to not let down my mother really

because she's worked awfully hard to get me through school

and

I haven't let her down yet

then..

as far as...eh ...not having...

my mothers divorce

I don't think that really has the effect that people imagine it to have

I mean I always have got on well with my stepfather

and with my half-sister, so in that sense I've had a family life

I'd help people if I had a chance

Y'know by say giving a little bit of money to charity or sponsoring things

or things like that

Well I took nine months off

between school and university

and there I taught at a school and worked in the Banbury sewage works

two months

What sort of school was it?

Well I never like admitting this but it was a handicapped school

I mean

it seems to present me as wanting to do these things

I suppose in a way I do, and

I do get some satisfaction from doing it, but....

I could so easily have done something else

it was just almost an accident that I ended up at the spastic school

and eh...

I'm glad I did it because I enjoyed it

not for its....

I suppose slightly charitable nature of the work, but

the people I met, work, it was quite good

Why are you frightened of presenting this image of yourself

It's...

It�s possibly because I

I don't know, I never want to feel to proud really

I mean it's dangerous for a start and it's so easy

and

it doesn't work in a way because I can try and pretend to be humble

that's being proud in just the same sort of way

I find it a very difficult thing to avoid, pride

Tell me, are you interested in politics at all?

Not as much as I was

I am about the only socialist in my village

and I go into the pub

and sort of expect to stand up and defend all socialist policies

sort of, this is the village socialist

no, village idiot, sorry

you agree with all this immigration so I stand up and defend it

and it's awfully hard work though I think I'm going to give that up

So where do you stand politically now then?

I'm still socialist but not as energetically as I was I suppose

What do you think about the way England's being run at the moment?

Well...

I'm glad the socialist's are in power because

This illusive thing called freedom is sort of rearing its head

and the conservatives are pushing it forward

and I thought this argument was smashed

at the early years of this century but it seems to be coming back

and it really is exceptionally dangerous because

the more you try and defend freedom

you allow everybody to do exactly what they like within limits

then the less you have

I mean there's no freedom in living in a slum

It's alright you can say the chap can do whatever he wants

he can get a better job or anything but that's just not the case

the more you defend freedom the less you have it

Well my girlfriend is in Africa

and I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again

Have you got any girlfriends?

No, not yet

I'm sure it will come, but not yet

What is your attitude to sex?

Well it's not quite, normal attitude to anti-sex

I mean I as it were burnt my fingers a little

I don't feel as though I'm missing anything now

I don't feel a need for it

and I'm quite happy at not feeling a need for it really

I mean I do think a lot of people think too much about it

What happened when you burnt your fingers?

I'd rather not talk about it really

well no in fact I don't really mean that

I don't mean I don't want to talk about it

it's just I'd need quite a long time to think about it really

Why?

Well in the end I decided the eh...

the effect, the pleasure, or...

just didn't seem worth it really

didn't seem worth...

See I think there's two different sorts

there's casual sex then there's sex in love and marriage

and

casual seks is not...

I don't think it's quite as widespread as people believed

because

if both the people treat it as casual sex then I think it's alright

but

if you're sort of looking for

I don't know this may seem awfully silly but

if you're looking for casual sex but don't want to treat it as such

then it doesn't seem to be worth the lies, I don't know the...

the sort of effort

- Is this what happened to you? - I suppose in a way yes

Have you been in love?

No, no

and eh...

I think I'll probably have to wait for that really

Play international wrestling

Yeah that's only at summertime though

Yeah summer we can go on the grass

Neil went to a comprehensive school in Liverpool

got four A-levels then walked out of Aberdeen university after one term

and is now doing casual labour in London

I came to London I think because I wanted to start a new life really

I'd left the university in Aberdeen

in the end of nineteen seventy-five

and I became conscious of the fact that I was drifting around

which I suppose I'm still doing here but at least I took the decision to move myself

and I think possibly there's more challenge in London than there ever could be in Aberdeen

Peter, Neil's school friend from Liverpool

is now in his last year at London university, reading history

It was obviously a big step

it was exciting more than anything, I mean that sounds corny but it was

Do you remember the day you left Liverpool?

Yeah very well

It was pouring down with rain, I remember that

just had the traditional send of from the train station, my mum and dad were there

a couple of mates turned up at the last minute, from the school to see me

- Catch a girl and kiss a girl - Yeah

and what happens then?

- Well the girls are all screaming - Yeah

and then we catch them we kiss them

We're interested in contrast with you and Neil

were you aware of differences in home background at the time?

Oh sure yeah, I mean both Neil's parents are teachers as you know

that's got to be a hell of a difference for a start

I mean, I'm not knocking them for a minute, they're very nice people

but eh...

there's obviously going to be some sort of academic type atmosphere in the house

which I did notice one or two times

but I think Neil

whether by design or just by the situation he was in

was obviously going to be under more pressure

I came to London and I contacted an agency for squatters

and they were able to give me the address of somebody

who was able to help people who were looking for accommodation in the London area

and by a process of chasing people around

I eventually managed to find this place here

I wouldn't squat in a place which I knew to be owned by somebody else

I wouldn't, certainly because I knew if I had a place of my own

and found somebody squatting in it I'd be disgusted

But this place was empty

and I was simply offered a place to live here and was very grateful for it

and I think in questions of squatting

a bit of humanity is more important that vain rules about who can live where

In contrast, Peter lives in a flat in North London

sharing with three other students

there have been three guys living here originally

and one of them left

to get engaged, virtually married

and the flat was meant for four in the first place

so Dave and Trev asked Ian and I if we'd like to move in

because we did 'cause we'd been searching for a flat for some months

so we jumped at the opportunity really

I've got my own room, I can cook whenever I like

I haven't got a landlady to tell me what time to come in

I've got my own front door key

and to tell the truth it's a lot better than a lot of the accommodation I've had

over the last eighteen months or so

it could be a bit warmer, it's a bit chilly

but eh...

it's perfectly satisfactory for the time being

These are obvious restrictions, y'know

not able to cook for yourself

you've got to think for yourself a lot more

but it's eh...

certainly not as exhausting or wearing as I thought it would be

I mean, y'know...

coming up myself is a challenge of some sort

we're going to have to split two sausages into three now

Well once Caroline Tetford said she loved me

and I'm going to marry her when I grow up

I hate her, she's always getting bad tempered and cross with me

- Does she? - Yeah

She says "Neil Hughes, move your desk forward"

and when I put it back she says "Neil Hughes put your chair forward"

and she just gets into a girly mood with me like that

Tell me about the period in your life when you went to university and what happened

It was a very short period

I was only at university...

well I was only taking university seriously for a matter of two or three months

maybe I went to the wrong university or maybe university life didn't suit me

either way

I felt a very great need to get out of the system

Well this is my final year so I'm not in college that much

I don't have to be

so what I'm expected to do is to be ...

laying out revision timetables at home and..

working like a slave

which I'm not at the moment, but I will be soon

I did make an application to Oxford

but I didn't get in

and eh

well I think that's in the past now and that's...

I don't know whether I would've been any happier at Oxford

it always had been a dream to get into Oxford

I think being as people had encouraged me

because I knew famous people having been to Oxford

I'd read memoirs written by famous people

things such as Brideshead's Revisited which was a great favourite

but these I suppose are

well they were dreams which I had while I was at school and

I have to just get over the fact that I didn't get into Oxford

probably because I didn't approach the thing in the right way

Are you bitter about it?

I was very bitter at the time

maybe I still am but I try to get over it

I think once I can get myself going I can work solid, yeah

but it's the motive

which is very hard to acquire when you're in the flat most of the time

it's hard to sort of look ahead to next June and think of those exams

but I dare say I'll do it, get the average type degree and...

I'm not worried

Is it a problem to you motivating yourself generally?

Yeah it can be

I can look back on the day and think "how I wasted that"

although I must've enjoyed it at the time

What sort of influence did your parents have on you?

Well they made me believe in god from the start

which I certainly wouldn't

or I don't know even now whether I believe in god or not

I've thought an awful lot about it actually and

I still don't know

but still this was the absolutely certain one

if one was to survive in the world one had to believe in god

this was something which was taught to me

always think of other people first before yourself

to a ridiculous neurotic degree

which I think affected me

What do you mean by that?

Well this I suppose is basic christianity

it's sort of...

if somebody slaps you on one cheek let them do it on the other

almost literally taken

which gave me a few shocks when I tried to put it into practise

- In what way? - I don't think to be honest

to go back to that question I don't think

I was really taught any sort of policy of living at all by my parents

this was probably their biggest mistake

that I was just left to fend for myself

in a world which they seemed completely oblivious of

and I found even when I tried to discuss problems which were facing me in school

my parents didn't seem to be aware of the nature of the problem

Were they ambitious for you?

Yeah but along set lines which they had planned

I think they have often said to me that they

they had seen me even from when I was very young in a certain type of career

and possibly they'd never even thought that anything else was vaguely possible

they probably imagined I would be

maybe a university lecturer or

a bank manager or something like this

some kind of indoor work

which involved writing and reading and this sort of thing

because they didn't take account of the other side of my personality

but

I wonder how many parents really think of their children as individual human beings

What are your feelings about them now? Your parents

I'm glad they're there because if I ever become homeless again

I will be able to go back and live with them

they wouldn't object to this

I'm capable of getting on with my parents perfectly well

If they are willing to let me live as another adult in their house

and appreciate that I'm living my own way of life

and that I am living there because I can't think of anything else to do with myself

What do they think of what you're doing now?

They accept it, I think now they do accept that I'm the person I am

they see this as simply my attempting to add more experience to my life

which satisfies me

Are they worried about you?

Probably yes

but no more worried now than they were when I first left for university

that was probably the time at which they were most worried

and we have in fact managed to discuss a lot of personal things

which I felt at one time I'd never be able to discuss

and therefore, as I say

it is possible for me to live for a few weeks even a month or so at home

without there being to much friction

So are you under pressure to get a job

to think of what you're going to do when you leave in June

Yeah I suspect I am from my parents, they keep dropping hints

which is only fair I can understand their feelings

obviously I've got to get a job

I don't want to laze around on the dole for months and months

you'd go mad

I just can't see what I'll be doing in nine, ten months time though

Does that depress you or does that excite you?

No it certainly doesn't depress me

perhaps it does excite me in a way yes

something will turn up, something of that nature y'know

but obviously you've got to think realistically about doing something

I mean I might be living in cloud cuckoo land y'know

my mum and dad might say "no son"

"you don't get a job you like"

I'd like to think I could

Well, we pretend we've got swords

we make the noises of the swords fighting

and when somebody stabs us we go "Arrrrrgghhh!"

What goes through your mind when you saw those two films

when you were at seven, bright and perky?

I find it hard to believe that I was ever like that but there's the evidence

I wonder why I was like that

I wonder what it was inside me that made me like that

and I can see even at fourteen and I was beginning to get more subdued

and I was putting a lot more thought into what I was saying

too a ridiculous degree

and probably when I was seven I just..... I don't know

I lived in a wonderful world where everything was sensation dumb

I could be happy like this I could be miserable the next minute

and I didn't have to plan for the future

I didn't have to worry about having friends and all this money

because everything was so mapped out for me

I don't know what sort of stumbling blocks should be put in a child's way

to get him used to living in the outside world

because I think maybe this is something that was wrong in my upbringing

I didn't have enough obstacles to get over, to toughen myself up against

I was unprepared for things as they were

but looking back now I couldn't think of what might have been done

and I certainly wouldn't start writing educational theory about this

because I know how personal a thing it is

and it probably wouldn't work in anybody else's case

Would you like to be seven again?

No because I'd know that I had to be twenty-one again

I moved up to a comprehensive school

I found it much bigger of course

I found it hard to settle into at first

but now I've been here a few years I know my way around

I think it's a very good idea to have competition

otherwise you might start to relax and not try hard enough

Yes at that age I was very conscious of having to struggle

because I suppose of what parents and teachers were saying

they were saying

they said "you've got a brain you must put all your effort into school work"

well what else could they have said?

I would've probably been just as angry, looking back

if they'd never encouraged my intellectual efforts at all

When I get married I don't want to have any children

because

they are always doing naughty things

and making the whole house untidy

Do you have any great ambition, any dream?

I suppose I...

yes well...

I would like to be someone in a position of importance and I've always thought this

but I don't think I'm the right sort of person to carry the responsibility for whatever it is

I've always thought well I'd love to be

possibly even love to be in politics

Something like this

but eh...

I suppose that I'd probably find just as tedious as all the other jobs I've done so...

What do you want out of life?

The satisfaction of knowing

that I've left some sort of imprint

rather than just lived out my life

I don't know....

it's going to sound like an epitaph I've left in memory of some people y'know

not that this guy worked, made a fair bit of money, good house, died

I'd like to have done something but...

then again it must be a drop in the ocean I suppose

I mean who is going to remember me in a hundred years time?

So is it that important, how you live out your life?

but I would like to think I'm going to do something with it

something positive

Do you and Peter have the same values?

I think we both value happiness and stability

I think most people do

But you've kicked against the stability that's..

I don't think I ever had any stability, to be quite honest

I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did

I don't think I've been kicking against anything

I think I've been kicking in mid-air the whole of my life

It's only one more

What do they think about each other?

and how would they act together?

to find out we invited them all to one big party and joined in

#If I say that I love you#

#and you know it's true#

#if you said that you'd leave me#

#what would I do?#

#I'll let you back if you let me#

#I'll change your mind......#

Yes but they were a bit too tough for my liking

so they hit me right in the back and I've still got a pain there

The posh ones, "Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!"

they're nuts

you just have to touch them

Well some of them were rather dirty

- What do you think about them? - I played with them quite naturally

I think they were rather nice really

What do you think about rich people?

Well... not much

Tell me about them

Well they think they can do everything without you doing it as well

and they think just because they're rich they have to have people to do all their work

What would you do if you had lots of money, about two pounds?

Me? I would help the poor

What for?

The poor, if you don't help them they die soon wouldn't they

and every time we have a harvest festival we send food to them

and once these two.....no

Susan and Janet Simpson went round giving it out with Mr Floyd

- I don't think much of the accents - Neither do I

Neither do I

it won't prevent me liking them

Don't you ever think to yourself -

Jump out of that suit, come to the Eastend

throw the books in the corner and do what you have to do

- I'd certainly throw the books in the corner - Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Yeah

- What are you going to do in life? - I've really no idea

The idea of just living somewhere and working for a living is just horrifying really

I mean, being a student is very easy

I just postponed the decision by going to university

I wouldn't say being a student's easy, that's why I left school

- It was too hard - Really

Who is to say what a seven year old child is?

I don't think there's anyway you can do it so a seven year old child could seem to be one thing

and you could always argue that the end product was produced by what he actually was

rather than what he seemed to be

- you'd normally use the total.... - Not a bookmaker but a....

- I'm always frightened they'd clear off - What?

I'm always frightened they'd clear off if they had a bad afternoon

No they're not like that, they can always get hold of money

What fears do you have for the future?

Well certainly the idea of, as I was saying before

getting into a job and simply getting stuck in it and that's it

without knowing why you're doing it

but I would think now that this is the time where I would think about something like that

and make sure it doesn't happen

I really don't see how one's life can be a failure

in that....

if I became a journalist and got sacked at thirty

probably because I had grown out of it or I had changed so I was no longer suitable

therefore I'd find something else which I enjoyed

and which my talents were suited to

No I have never suffered at all

never been driven to despair or tears or....

I don't know, have any of the others?

My strength is being able to keep going really

and my weakness is not being able to take any positive course of action

I suppose I tend to behave in the fashion of the people that I'm with

in some circumstances I think that can be quite a weakness sometimes

sometimes wish I didn't

occasionally look at myself and think "christ you're a bloody fool, what are you doing now?"

and that sometimes disturbs me

We had a teacher at school

that his favourite ploy was....

"All you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies

and push a pram down the road with a cigarette hanging out the side of your mouth"

god if there was ever a sentence I'd resent it would be that one - yeah

There's only one ambition really I want a baby son

if I see my baby son that'll be my ambition fulfilled

no one knows that, only you now!

Well to me it is a dream to be totally happy

I mean, I don't think you can expect that but...

What happens if you don't make that? If you don't ever find it? How will you cope?

I don't know, it would be hard to say

the human minds very strong and it can be very weak

and so you could crack up from it and you could just

live your life out from day to day and you could get over it I think

well not get over it but you'd sort of cope with it I think

but what I'd do I just don't know

I mean I want to be happy and my dreams are all for happiness

but basically that's what I want out of life

I always leave something inside me, I always leave a bit behind

I always hold back a bit with everything I do

just to sort of....something to fall back on

I've always got something else to look on if anything goes wrong anywhere

What is that something you hold back?

I think it's a part of my heart

What do you want most out of life?

To be happy and get on with life

you don't want to just sit back and let it always pass

you could be run over by a bus tomorrow

so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it

Simply to be able to wake up in the morning and feel that

this day was going to be worthwhile

which is what I don't feel at the moment

At the end of their very special day in London

after their trip to the zoo and the party

we took our children to an adventure playground

where they could do just what they liked

those from a children's home set about building a house

The houses in Australia, the average sort of living there will do me fine

I mean it's terrific

I often say I'm saving to settle down with Yvonne

and then I think to myself "nah I might buy a car instead"

There's Nicholas

You have to run fast to stay where you are

to go forward you have to run very fast indeed, or whatever the quote is

so I'll probably feel I'm actually achieving nothing

and Tony

I don't want to change because if I change

it proves the other Tony Walker was all fake

Andrew

After I've qualified as a Solicitor I'll have to rethink

I don't know at all what will happen after that

and Bruce

It all springs from.....

loving god and christ I suppose

you try and do that as best as possible and that leads your actions in life

John

I'd quite like to go into politics but that's easier said than done

Susie

When you're a child you always think how nice it would be to be grown up

and independent and things

but there are times when I wish I was three again

Jackie and her friends

give me a child until he is seven

and I will give you the man

this has been a glimpse of Britain's future