1 00:00:18,380 --> 00:00:22,861 In 1963 World in Action made a film about these seven year old children 2 00:00:23,162 --> 00:00:27,184 they talked about their homes, their schools and what they wanted to be 3 00:00:28,542 --> 00:00:30,784 they were filmed again when they were fourteen 4 00:00:32,472 --> 00:00:34,337 we've brought them all together to watch the films 5 00:00:34,338 --> 00:00:36,248 because this year they are twenty-one 6 00:00:43,516 --> 00:00:45,187 what are they doing now? 7 00:00:45,188 --> 00:00:46,390 How have they changed? 8 00:00:46,642 --> 00:00:48,289 What sort of people are they? 9 00:00:52,482 --> 00:00:53,743 Stop it at once! 10 00:00:53,818 --> 00:00:56,266 Give me a child until he is seven 11 00:00:56,267 --> 00:00:58,368 and I will give you the man 12 00:00:59,574 --> 00:01:02,768 When I leave the school I'm going to.. 13 00:01:03,487 --> 00:01:05,312 Colet Court 14 00:01:07,398 --> 00:01:10,192 and then I will be going to Rossminster Boarding School 15 00:01:10,193 --> 00:01:11,693 if I pass the exam 16 00:01:12,964 --> 00:01:15,371 and then we think I'm going to 17 00:01:16,150 --> 00:01:18,396 Cambridge and Trinity Hall 18 00:01:20,162 --> 00:01:22,022 Well... 19 00:01:22,023 --> 00:01:26,022 before I'm old and that, enough to get a job 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,328 I'll just walk around and see what I can find 21 00:01:30,649 --> 00:01:34,113 I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah 22 00:01:34,114 --> 00:01:35,788 When I leave school 23 00:01:35,789 --> 00:01:39,080 I'm going to The Dragon School, I might 24 00:01:39,936 --> 00:01:43,639 and after I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough 25 00:01:44,006 --> 00:01:45,862 What about university Charlie? 26 00:01:46,088 --> 00:01:48,232 I might go to Oxford 27 00:01:48,494 --> 00:01:50,574 What does university mean? 28 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,671 Well... 29 00:01:52,672 --> 00:01:55,630 Well I don't think I need to go to university 30 00:01:55,631 --> 00:01:57,538 'cause I'm not going to be a teacher 31 00:01:57,539 --> 00:01:59,582 I don't think you have to go to university 32 00:01:59,583 --> 00:02:01,274 if you want to be an astronaut 33 00:02:01,275 --> 00:02:03,132 When I leave this school 34 00:02:03,133 --> 00:02:06,892 I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor 35 00:02:07,271 --> 00:02:11,758 and then maybe I may want to go to university 36 00:02:11,759 --> 00:02:13,345 but I don't know which one yet 37 00:02:13,346 --> 00:02:17,170 I will buy myself a nice new made house, you know 38 00:02:17,171 --> 00:02:20,330 One that's all nice and comfy 39 00:02:20,331 --> 00:02:22,631 I'm going to work in Woolworths 40 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,783 Well, going to Africa 41 00:02:25,784 --> 00:02:29,600 and try and teach people who are not civilised 42 00:02:30,259 --> 00:02:33,208 to be, more or less good 43 00:02:33,209 --> 00:02:36,060 When I grow up I'd like to 44 00:02:36,061 --> 00:02:39,322 find out all about the moon and all that 45 00:02:39,616 --> 00:02:43,265 It's just that the limitations of such things as : 46 00:02:43,266 --> 00:02:46,904 What the audience require and the time 47 00:02:46,905 --> 00:02:49,197 don't allow it to be a real study 48 00:02:49,198 --> 00:02:51,300 I mean if we accept this 49 00:02:51,562 --> 00:02:53,472 then it.... 50 00:02:53,473 --> 00:02:55,756 Okay I think it's probably good entertainment 51 00:02:55,757 --> 00:02:57,810 I don't think we've changed that much 52 00:02:57,811 --> 00:03:00,370 I think we talk, no I don't mean looks 53 00:03:00,371 --> 00:03:03,258 I mean the way we talk I don't think we've changed that much 54 00:03:03,259 --> 00:03:05,491 Well you never lose an Eastend accent do you 55 00:03:05,492 --> 00:03:08,280 I tell you what, as it goes you've definitely changed 56 00:03:08,281 --> 00:03:09,481 - You think so yeah? - In facial 57 00:03:09,482 --> 00:03:11,505 You haven't changed a bit have you? 58 00:03:11,506 --> 00:03:13,058 Don't you think so? I thought I'd got bigger 59 00:03:13,093 --> 00:03:14,513 You might be about an inch bigger yeah 60 00:03:14,942 --> 00:03:16,802 - An inch? - I know it's unbelievable 61 00:03:16,803 --> 00:03:19,192 That's something I did notice, the way our teeth have changed 62 00:03:20,481 --> 00:03:21,481 Teeth? 63 00:03:21,482 --> 00:03:22,482 Yes 64 00:03:22,483 --> 00:03:24,896 - Mine were out like that and I had them shoved back - Well I noticed the ears actually 65 00:03:24,897 --> 00:03:28,573 Have you not noticed that a lot of people... your ears have been made real fun about them 66 00:03:29,118 --> 00:03:31,918 They've got they're conclusions settled already 67 00:03:33,654 --> 00:03:34,513 They must 68 00:03:34,514 --> 00:03:38,594 ...met here today and we've seen the films 69 00:03:38,595 --> 00:03:40,736 and we feel as if we know everybody who is in the films now 70 00:03:41,562 --> 00:03:44,106 has broken any class barriers that could previously existed 71 00:03:44,107 --> 00:03:46,922 and therefore the film itself has 72 00:03:46,923 --> 00:03:48,484 possibly defeated its own object 73 00:03:48,485 --> 00:03:50,544 - They do lead me on a bit don't they - That's what I mean 74 00:03:50,545 --> 00:03:53,002 and they hype the program up too much 75 00:03:53,003 --> 00:03:54,003 Yeah 76 00:03:54,004 --> 00:03:57,570 and make that you're good and I'm bad 77 00:03:57,571 --> 00:03:59,456 - Or - Well Vice-versa I think 78 00:03:59,457 --> 00:04:02,493 - No don't be silly - No I really do, especially the "7" one 79 00:04:02,494 --> 00:04:05,190 People tend to read significance into it that I don't think exists 80 00:04:05,191 --> 00:04:08,216 One of my friends for instance, had me pointed out to him as... 81 00:04:08,217 --> 00:04:10,148 being destined to run the farm 82 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:13,663 and being educationally pretty inept, this is obvious from the film 83 00:04:15,170 --> 00:04:19,523 At seven Nicholas was at a one room village school in the Yorkshire Dales 84 00:04:19,524 --> 00:04:21,270 Do you have a girlfriend? 85 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:27,049 I don't want to answer that 86 00:04:27,050 --> 00:04:31,072 I don't want answer those kind of questions 87 00:04:32,515 --> 00:04:35,808 I thought that one would come up because when I was 88 00:04:36,563 --> 00:04:38,674 When I was doing the other one somebody said 89 00:04:38,675 --> 00:04:41,884 "what do you think about girls?" and I said "I don't answer questions like that" 90 00:04:41,885 --> 00:04:43,562 is that the reason you're asking it? 91 00:04:43,563 --> 00:04:45,270 - yeah - thought so 92 00:04:49,010 --> 00:04:50,746 The best answer would be 93 00:04:50,747 --> 00:04:53,824 to say that I don't answer questions like that but I mean.. 94 00:04:53,825 --> 00:04:56,481 you know it was what I said when I was seven 95 00:04:56,482 --> 00:04:59,554 and it's still the most sensible but I mean, what about them? 96 00:05:01,338 --> 00:05:03,369 Well you seemed at fourteen 97 00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:05,804 very shy of the whole 98 00:05:06,966 --> 00:05:09,078 sexual life, has that changed? 99 00:05:09,786 --> 00:05:11,734 I've tried to make a change yes 100 00:05:12,164 --> 00:05:16,760 a very definite conscious effort not to be shy 101 00:05:16,761 --> 00:05:19,044 to be more outgoing 102 00:05:19,045 --> 00:05:25,274 and this is actually something I can put a point to in my own past 103 00:05:25,275 --> 00:05:28,550 and think yes I did make my mind up here, here and here 104 00:05:28,551 --> 00:05:31,554 that I was going to try and change this, this and this 105 00:05:31,555 --> 00:05:34,146 "this" being basically my confidence 106 00:05:34,147 --> 00:05:34,994 and my 107 00:05:34,995 --> 00:05:37,266 my sort of approach to 108 00:05:37,267 --> 00:05:39,170 well this is to people in general 109 00:05:39,171 --> 00:05:41,920 When I grow up I'd like to 110 00:05:41,921 --> 00:05:44,730 find out all about the moon and all that 111 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,148 I mean 112 00:05:46,149 --> 00:05:46,949 I'm not 113 00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:50,761 when I said that I was interested in physics and chemistry well I'm not going to do that here 114 00:05:52,386 --> 00:05:54,420 You might be able to get... somebody to ex... 115 00:05:54,421 --> 00:05:56,819 will you explain this to me again 116 00:05:57,166 --> 00:06:00,350 Nicholas is now in his 2nd year at Oxford University 117 00:06:00,881 --> 00:06:04,192 Well I'm trying to be a physicist 118 00:06:04,193 --> 00:06:06,821 to fill in the detail of 119 00:06:06,822 --> 00:06:09,282 whenever you meet somebody at university that 120 00:06:09,283 --> 00:06:11,004 the standard question is, 121 00:06:11,005 --> 00:06:12,759 where are you and what are you doing? 122 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,877 and my answer is I'm at Merton College and I'm doing Physics 123 00:06:15,878 --> 00:06:18,367 so it doesn't move up and down and just rotates 124 00:06:18,368 --> 00:06:20,184 - OK - Then you put it in 125 00:06:20,219 --> 00:06:21,256 We'll give it a whirl 126 00:06:21,257 --> 00:06:23,892 So what career are you going to pursue? 127 00:06:23,893 --> 00:06:27,917 It depends whether I'll be good enough to do what I want to really do 128 00:06:28,671 --> 00:06:33,256 I would like if I can to do research 129 00:06:34,627 --> 00:06:37,628 Are there any disadvantages in coming from a small place like this 130 00:06:37,629 --> 00:06:39,671 and preparing yourself for Oxford? 131 00:06:39,672 --> 00:06:43,103 Well it's a rather different background 132 00:06:43,397 --> 00:06:47,945 to go any where, Oxford perhaps especially 133 00:06:48,835 --> 00:06:53,724 it is a rather more firm foundation I would've thought 134 00:06:53,725 --> 00:06:55,332 as to your 135 00:06:56,017 --> 00:06:58,513 character? I don't? perhaps character 136 00:06:58,514 --> 00:07:01,093 than being brought up in the city 137 00:07:01,401 --> 00:07:03,911 It's a fixed reference point in a sense 138 00:07:03,912 --> 00:07:08,189 that sort of earthy life and death cycle that you get 139 00:07:08,190 --> 00:07:09,857 living on a farm 140 00:07:09,858 --> 00:07:14,016 so when something dies it rots and feeds back into the earth 141 00:07:14,281 --> 00:07:17,017 Sometimes it's helpful 142 00:07:17,018 --> 00:07:23,147 in a city where things that some people are very concerned about seem quite irrelevant 143 00:07:23,453 --> 00:07:26,637 Is there a new strength of your father as a farmer 144 00:07:26,638 --> 00:07:29,088 that you think he's trying to teach you 145 00:07:29,089 --> 00:07:33,870 Well you get a certain sort of calmness in some situations 146 00:07:33,871 --> 00:07:37,961 take things as they come you become resigned to things 147 00:07:37,962 --> 00:07:41,947 if the dog's chasing animals in the wrong direction then you just have to put up with it 148 00:07:41,948 --> 00:07:46,509 if it won't do as it's told you become resigned to these things 149 00:07:46,510 --> 00:07:50,438 I suppose yes that's one possibility 150 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:53,140 come on 151 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,276 come on lad 152 00:08:01,277 --> 00:08:03,572 I suppose of all the seven year olds 153 00:08:03,573 --> 00:08:06,140 the original ones, you are the big success 154 00:08:06,687 --> 00:08:08,953 I am not inclined to accept that 155 00:08:08,954 --> 00:08:11,094 Why? You wouldn't agree with that? 156 00:08:11,095 --> 00:08:12,940 Well what have I achieved? 157 00:08:12,941 --> 00:08:17,893 I'm not really prepared to accept that I've done anything very special yet 158 00:08:18,901 --> 00:08:21,621 I'd like to think that....I mean I'm hoping that I might do at some stage 159 00:08:21,622 --> 00:08:25,346 but I don't really think I've done anything that you can call a great success 160 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:31,543 It would seem really ridiculous to any of my friends who watch this if I said 161 00:08:31,844 --> 00:08:34,811 "Christ aren't I a great success, look at me" 162 00:08:34,812 --> 00:08:37,357 Well what? You know, what success? 163 00:08:38,309 --> 00:08:40,689 I can't think of it in those terms 164 00:08:40,690 --> 00:08:44,304 I haven't done anything that can be called success 165 00:08:44,305 --> 00:08:46,585 nothing out of the ordinary really 166 00:08:56,088 --> 00:08:58,266 Singing Waltzing Matilda in Latin 167 00:08:58,267 --> 00:09:00,749 at an exclusive pre-preparatory school in London 168 00:09:01,044 --> 00:09:02,420 Charles 169 00:09:03,770 --> 00:09:04,909 Andrew 170 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:06,202 and John 171 00:09:06,203 --> 00:09:09,325 I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools 172 00:09:09,326 --> 00:09:11,069 because if we didn't 173 00:09:11,070 --> 00:09:13,949 schools would be so nasty and crowded 174 00:09:14,296 --> 00:09:16,328 Yes, so do I think so 175 00:09:16,329 --> 00:09:21,496 The poor people would come rushing in and the man in charge of the school would... 176 00:09:21,497 --> 00:09:24,986 Would you think there's any truth in the ideas behind the program that 177 00:09:24,987 --> 00:09:29,069 certain people have more options than others and this is undesirable? 178 00:09:29,295 --> 00:09:34,743 It's certainly true that more people know they have more options or imagine they have 179 00:09:34,744 --> 00:09:37,171 I think in practical terms 180 00:09:38,341 --> 00:09:43,065 the difference in numerical number of options isn't that great 181 00:09:44,169 --> 00:09:48,634 the fact is that the three of us know that there's a whole range of things we can do 182 00:09:48,635 --> 00:09:53,095 But the mere knowledge creates an option in itself, so I think we do have more options 183 00:09:53,096 --> 00:09:57,215 and it is undesirable but it's very difficult to correct 184 00:09:57,216 --> 00:09:59,981 I don't think it is undesirable at all 185 00:09:59,982 --> 00:10:02,549 I think what's undesirable is people who have had options 186 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:05,490 don't make advantage of them, take best advantage of them 187 00:10:05,491 --> 00:10:07,978 but I can't see there's anything wrong 188 00:10:07,979 --> 00:10:12,226 as long as people don't abuse the opportunities and privileges they've had 189 00:10:13,145 --> 00:10:18,471 If people behave responsibly I think it's very good 190 00:10:19,193 --> 00:10:21,910 they're the sort of stability and structure in society 191 00:10:21,911 --> 00:10:23,697 We've been taught to expect more 192 00:10:23,698 --> 00:10:26,783 it's not that because we've been to private schools 193 00:10:26,784 --> 00:10:29,315 we're not better qualified necessarily 194 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:31,186 - No - Yes I agree with that 195 00:10:31,187 --> 00:10:33,075 It's a matter of expectations 196 00:10:33,076 --> 00:10:35,305 Yes I must say, all this talk about opportunities 197 00:10:35,306 --> 00:10:39,150 something I did slightly object to in the program was 198 00:10:39,151 --> 00:10:41,075 we were shown at the age of seven 199 00:10:41,076 --> 00:10:46,079 outlining the academic career that most of us did in fact pursue 200 00:10:46,963 --> 00:10:50,017 each sentence ended up "John is at Westminster" 201 00:10:50,018 --> 00:10:51,803 Andrew is at Charterhouse and everything 202 00:10:51,804 --> 00:10:55,944 implied that we just sailed through, merely manifesting an intention at the age of seven 203 00:10:55,945 --> 00:10:59,401 we didn't show the sleepless nights, the pouring over our books 204 00:10:59,402 --> 00:11:00,790 sort of, you know 205 00:11:00,791 --> 00:11:04,167 all the sweat and toil that got us through to university 206 00:11:04,652 --> 00:11:07,526 it was presented as if it was just part of some 207 00:11:07,883 --> 00:11:10,420 indestructible birth right that we went to all these places 208 00:11:10,421 --> 00:11:14,895 and I thought that was unfair, they didn't show us having to do beastly jobs in the holidays 209 00:11:14,896 --> 00:11:17,839 y'know, to make ends meet and things 210 00:11:18,485 --> 00:11:22,637 it didn't give a very real sort of...impression 211 00:11:22,638 --> 00:11:24,866 The three girls are earning 212 00:11:25,341 --> 00:11:31,023 income wise they're far better off than I imagine all three of us are, certainly I am 213 00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:33,763 and background wise 214 00:11:33,764 --> 00:11:38,119 in terms of qualifications or the means of achieving their ends 215 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,925 they probably have just as many options as we do 216 00:11:40,926 --> 00:11:42,175 Jaqueline 217 00:11:42,176 --> 00:11:44,676 how do you think about coloured people? 218 00:11:44,677 --> 00:11:48,487 Well they're nice, they're just the same as us really 219 00:11:48,989 --> 00:11:51,187 but, one thing 220 00:11:51,188 --> 00:11:54,697 it's only 'cause their skin's brown and we're white 221 00:11:54,999 --> 00:11:57,119 sort of pinkish we are 222 00:11:58,797 --> 00:12:01,277 Jackie, Lynn and Susan 223 00:12:01,322 --> 00:12:04,196 they went to primary school together in the Eastend of London 224 00:12:04,197 --> 00:12:06,383 Lynn chose to go on to a grammar school 225 00:12:06,384 --> 00:12:08,691 and Jackie and Susan to a comprehensive 226 00:12:09,053 --> 00:12:12,569 There is a danger that you would get married at early twenties and 227 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:15,575 have children quickly and then be stuck at home 228 00:12:16,555 --> 00:12:17,959 have you any thoughts on that? 229 00:12:18,387 --> 00:12:21,273 - I don't really think about it much - No 230 00:12:21,573 --> 00:12:24,295 I don't think I'd eh.... 231 00:12:24,765 --> 00:12:26,717 get married to early 232 00:12:26,718 --> 00:12:28,749 I'd like to have a full life first and 233 00:12:28,750 --> 00:12:31,115 - I'd like to enjoy myself before I... - Meet people and...yeah 234 00:12:31,116 --> 00:12:33,927 Before you can commit yourself to a family 235 00:12:33,928 --> 00:12:38,459 What would you do if you had lots of money? about two pounds 236 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:42,311 I would buy myself a nice new made house you know 237 00:12:42,312 --> 00:12:45,259 one that's all nice and comfy 238 00:12:45,566 --> 00:12:49,886 Jackie was married last year and now lives on a new estate in Essex 239 00:12:50,074 --> 00:12:53,387 - It's a nice estate - Yeah - Yeah not bad at all 240 00:12:53,388 --> 00:12:55,890 What are they like the neighbours? Have you seen a lot of them or what? 241 00:12:55,891 --> 00:12:59,722 Well you know, to say hello to more than anything, I mean 242 00:12:59,723 --> 00:13:02,477 we borrow things off of her, which is just as well 243 00:13:02,478 --> 00:13:05,103 - That's what neighbours are for isn't it? - Yeah right! 244 00:13:06,505 --> 00:13:09,676 Here, It's a similar colour scheme down here moving up stairs isn't it? 245 00:13:09,881 --> 00:13:13,777 Yeah but this was more by luck than judgement really 246 00:13:13,778 --> 00:13:16,346 - Was it like this when you came? - No it was all white 247 00:13:16,347 --> 00:13:19,082 but you can imagine the state it was in 248 00:13:19,083 --> 00:13:24,288 friends had some paint handy so Dad and Mick just used the rollers and in a day it was done 249 00:13:24,289 --> 00:13:25,809 two coats, wallop! that was it 250 00:13:25,810 --> 00:13:27,406 Susan is still single 251 00:13:27,407 --> 00:13:29,902 I work for a travel company 252 00:13:30,343 --> 00:13:34,747 they don't deal with the public, they deal with groups and company groups 253 00:13:35,211 --> 00:13:39,860 it's sort of incentive, holidays abroad and conferences, that sort of thing 254 00:13:40,157 --> 00:13:44,266 which I like because I like foreign places 255 00:13:44,548 --> 00:13:46,287 and I have to do eh.... 256 00:13:46,288 --> 00:13:48,068 I do quite a bit of typing 257 00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:50,901 but a lot of my work is involved in making bookings 258 00:13:50,902 --> 00:13:53,673 and dealing with hotels abroad 259 00:13:53,674 --> 00:13:57,253 I left school and started work... 260 00:13:57,254 --> 00:14:00,244 for an Australian bank and I'm still there 261 00:14:00,913 --> 00:14:04,010 and I've been there what? Three and a half years now 262 00:14:04,695 --> 00:14:07,431 I've done various jobs within the bank 263 00:14:09,545 --> 00:14:13,231 I started off as a telephonist-typist 264 00:14:13,232 --> 00:14:16,555 which was very interesting actually, you'd be surprised the sort of calls you get 265 00:14:19,436 --> 00:14:22,994 Then I went on to work the NCR machine 266 00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:25,722 which is the actual machine that processes the accounts 267 00:14:26,337 --> 00:14:30,737 and counter work dealing with clients money and things like that 268 00:14:30,738 --> 00:14:33,003 I'm going to work in Woolworths 269 00:14:33,004 --> 00:14:39,185 Well I'm a school mobile librarian and assistant to the young peoples office 270 00:14:39,186 --> 00:14:40,831 Which is where we are now 271 00:14:41,301 --> 00:14:45,598 and I've been here since August last year 272 00:14:48,267 --> 00:14:51,479 Lynn is now married but still lives and works in the Eastend 273 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,068 I visit schools with the van 274 00:14:55,069 --> 00:14:59,944 where they've not got position to get into a local library for class visits 275 00:14:59,945 --> 00:15:01,785 I love working with children 276 00:15:01,786 --> 00:15:04,813 do you remember on the last one I wanted to teach? 277 00:15:04,814 --> 00:15:06,901 Well I didn't get to that 278 00:15:06,902 --> 00:15:10,484 and seeing how it is today I'm glad I didn't 279 00:15:10,485 --> 00:15:13,281 the job situation for all teachers as it is 280 00:15:13,901 --> 00:15:17,585 and I think it takes a lot more patience than I've actually got 281 00:15:17,586 --> 00:15:19,650 I'm much more at home here 282 00:15:19,651 --> 00:15:21,295 - Have I stamped yours? - Yes 283 00:15:21,529 --> 00:15:23,349 I've not stamped yours 284 00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:24,977 Sleeping Beauty 285 00:15:26,674 --> 00:15:28,477 I've lost the stamp! 286 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:33,101 Do you sleep like a beauty? 287 00:15:33,575 --> 00:15:34,794 What do you say? 288 00:15:34,807 --> 00:15:36,288 Thank you 289 00:15:36,474 --> 00:15:41,767 I definitely make a point in reading all my new books I get in 290 00:15:41,768 --> 00:15:44,358 It's quite funny, I take loads of books home 291 00:15:44,359 --> 00:15:47,767 and people come and say "who are these kids books on the table?" 292 00:15:47,768 --> 00:15:50,476 - "They're mine" - "Oh" 293 00:15:50,534 --> 00:15:52,360 Then they sort of shut up 294 00:15:52,361 --> 00:15:57,914 At the moment a career's probably about the furthest thing from my mind 295 00:15:57,915 --> 00:16:01,493 and I don't really know what I'm aiming for except to get the house together 296 00:16:01,857 --> 00:16:07,352 and that can take years, as fast as you replace one thing something else needs replacing, so ... 297 00:16:08,083 --> 00:16:10,100 it could just go on like that, I don't know 298 00:16:10,101 --> 00:16:13,213 Well admitting that you're not a career girl 299 00:16:13,214 --> 00:16:15,753 does it mean that you're therefore looking for a family? 300 00:16:15,754 --> 00:16:17,691 Oh I don't know, I suppose I am 301 00:16:18,077 --> 00:16:20,414 But erm.. 302 00:16:20,415 --> 00:16:22,767 every thing's not that cut and dried 303 00:16:22,768 --> 00:16:25,385 it's not either career or family or... 304 00:16:25,386 --> 00:16:29,057 but is what's in the middle, am I just going to carry on as I am now? for? 305 00:16:29,058 --> 00:16:31,822 and end up .....on the shelf? 306 00:16:31,823 --> 00:16:34,827 or am I just going to get married? could be any day, but 307 00:16:34,925 --> 00:16:37,458 I suppose Lynn is a career girl in a way isn't she? 308 00:16:37,459 --> 00:16:40,713 Yeah she's more wrapped up in her job than I think we are 309 00:16:42,081 --> 00:16:47,143 and you all three were sat there at seven and she's gone that way and you've gone this way 310 00:16:47,144 --> 00:16:49,298 is there? can you?.... 311 00:16:49,299 --> 00:16:51,434 think of any reasons why that should be? 312 00:16:51,435 --> 00:16:55,935 I think just basic personality, Lynn's always been that little bit different from us 313 00:16:57,207 --> 00:17:00,323 She's always been more serious as far as studies are concerned 314 00:17:00,768 --> 00:17:04,158 I didn't feel like going to a grammar school, I just er... 315 00:17:04,159 --> 00:17:07,665 you know, comprehensive school it just seemed more friendly 316 00:17:07,666 --> 00:17:11,327 At that time that is, but now a little bit different 317 00:17:11,328 --> 00:17:14,582 - Grammar school's fantastic - If you say so! 318 00:17:15,187 --> 00:17:16,892 When I leave this school 319 00:17:17,084 --> 00:17:21,004 I'm down for Heathfield and Fairfield Manor 320 00:17:21,443 --> 00:17:27,171 and then maybe I may want to go to university but I don't know which one yet 321 00:17:32,466 --> 00:17:33,951 This is Susie 322 00:17:33,952 --> 00:17:37,349 the product of a private education and wealthy parents 323 00:17:44,251 --> 00:17:46,927 What do you think about making this program? 324 00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:53,700 I just think it's ridiculous, I don't see any point in doing it 325 00:17:54,581 --> 00:17:55,957 Why not? 326 00:17:56,827 --> 00:18:00,317 What's the point of people going into peoples lives and saying: 327 00:18:00,318 --> 00:18:03,357 "Why do you like this and why don't you?" I don't see any point in it 328 00:18:03,358 --> 00:18:06,927 Well I didn't want to do it when I was fourteen 329 00:18:07,341 --> 00:18:10,726 I know I was very difficult because I was very anti doing it 330 00:18:10,727 --> 00:18:13,909 because I was pressurised into doing it by my parents 331 00:18:16,093 --> 00:18:17,933 and I hated it 332 00:18:17,934 --> 00:18:21,073 and I vowed I'd never do it now 333 00:18:21,074 --> 00:18:22,821 but here I am 334 00:18:23,261 --> 00:18:25,453 I'd like to do... 335 00:18:25,454 --> 00:18:28,173 short hand typing or something like that 336 00:18:28,174 --> 00:18:30,761 I left school when I was sixteen, went to Paris 337 00:18:33,252 --> 00:18:36,067 went to secretarial college and got a job 338 00:18:36,482 --> 00:18:39,777 What made you decide to leave school and go to Paris? 339 00:18:40,897 --> 00:18:44,459 I just wasn't interested in school and just wanted to get away 340 00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:48,379 and why did you choose Paris? 341 00:18:49,932 --> 00:18:52,393 I don't know, it was my parents really 342 00:18:53,431 --> 00:18:59,157 Did you sort of feel the need to get away? and why? 343 00:19:00,653 --> 00:19:03,095 Well I'd lived in London or Scotland 344 00:19:03,096 --> 00:19:06,607 and I knew people who were going out to Paris and so I thought I'd go as well 345 00:19:06,608 --> 00:19:09,088 Comparing yourselves to Susie 346 00:19:09,089 --> 00:19:11,275 who stands at the other end of the social scale 347 00:19:11,276 --> 00:19:13,651 do you think you've had the same opportunities as her? 348 00:19:15,064 --> 00:19:18,049 I've had the opportunities in life that I've wanted 349 00:19:18,050 --> 00:19:20,973 I'd say I've had more opportunities than Susie 350 00:19:22,255 --> 00:19:24,744 I'd say I've had more opportunities than her 351 00:19:24,745 --> 00:19:27,167 in a different aspect to what she's had them 352 00:19:28,005 --> 00:19:33,510 But eh, my life, I've been able to do more or less what I wanted to do 353 00:19:33,871 --> 00:19:37,349 I'm not going to say it on film, what i feel for her 354 00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:43,229 But I think she's been so conditioned into what she should do and what she shouldn't do 355 00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:44,811 Yeah but I mean 356 00:19:44,812 --> 00:19:48,646 The whole thing is you're saying "do we envy anything Susie's had?" 357 00:19:48,647 --> 00:19:49,347 No 358 00:19:49,348 --> 00:19:50,705 I mean I don't know 359 00:19:50,706 --> 00:19:54,023 I don't know what Susie's had, what's Susie had that I haven't had? 360 00:19:54,491 --> 00:19:57,878 I mean, until I know that I can't honestly say whether I envy her 361 00:19:57,879 --> 00:20:01,161 - She's had money and she's travelled - I've got money! 362 00:20:01,162 --> 00:20:03,538 Maybe not enough but I've got it! 363 00:20:03,539 --> 00:20:07,566 I have been to Honolulu with my father about two years ago 364 00:20:07,983 --> 00:20:09,871 for a couple of months 365 00:20:11,635 --> 00:20:14,710 which I didn't really enjoy 366 00:20:14,711 --> 00:20:19,079 there's nothing much out there, there's no meet people my own age out there 367 00:20:20,033 --> 00:20:22,624 and I hated it and I was glad to come home 368 00:20:25,236 --> 00:20:29,291 apart from that I've been to France on holidays 369 00:20:29,292 --> 00:20:32,405 I'm going to Australia in the summer 370 00:20:33,706 --> 00:20:35,412 for about two months 371 00:20:35,413 --> 00:20:39,268 otherwise I don't know where I'm going to go and I'd like to go and travel more 372 00:20:40,798 --> 00:20:42,146 Why? 373 00:20:42,402 --> 00:20:45,315 Well I don't think there's any point in sitting in your own country 374 00:20:45,316 --> 00:20:48,959 I'd like to see how people live on the other side of the world 375 00:20:50,399 --> 00:20:52,929 Tell me about the Australian trip 376 00:20:54,264 --> 00:20:58,181 Well I'm going in July for about two months with my cousin 377 00:20:58,459 --> 00:21:00,966 her elder sister's married out there 378 00:21:01,236 --> 00:21:04,980 and we're just going out to.... 379 00:21:04,981 --> 00:21:07,354 see what it's like 380 00:21:07,372 --> 00:21:10,775 we're going to not work out there, we're only going for two months 381 00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:16,278 We just feel if we don't go now we never will 382 00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:19,954 We've got the opportunity and the time to go now so we're going 383 00:21:20,357 --> 00:21:21,829 How are you going to pay for it? 384 00:21:23,083 --> 00:21:24,907 Save up and go 385 00:21:25,803 --> 00:21:28,274 Do you get depressed by money problems? 386 00:21:29,156 --> 00:21:31,640 No, why? Why should you? 387 00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:34,395 - If you can manage on what you've got - I refuse to get depressed over money 388 00:21:34,396 --> 00:21:37,542 - It's so easy to but why should you? - I do, I do 389 00:21:37,543 --> 00:21:38,925 Why worry about it? 390 00:21:38,926 --> 00:21:41,506 When I reach the 18th day of the month and my mortgage is due on the 20th 391 00:21:41,507 --> 00:21:45,534 and there's nowhere near enough money in there, I get depressed about it obviously 392 00:21:45,968 --> 00:21:48,288 Suddenly thinking, oh my god what's going to happen, you know 393 00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:51,228 But it gets there, don't ask me how but you get it 394 00:21:51,649 --> 00:21:54,059 Do you think you've settled down to young? 395 00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:54,653 No 396 00:21:54,654 --> 00:21:58,251 I've married and we do things together, or... 397 00:21:58,864 --> 00:22:02,640 I go out on my own sometimes with friends from work 398 00:22:02,641 --> 00:22:06,603 he does the same, what do you mean by settled down? 399 00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:11,552 If you think that getting married as far as we're concerned is a case of 400 00:22:11,553 --> 00:22:15,490 going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby, going to bed, getting up, going to work 401 00:22:15,491 --> 00:22:17,313 you're totally mistaken 402 00:22:17,314 --> 00:22:20,260 Did you meet enough men before you decided who to marry? 403 00:22:20,261 --> 00:22:22,349 I've been married a year and... 404 00:22:22,966 --> 00:22:24,374 a couple of months 405 00:22:25,369 --> 00:22:27,983 you do think "christ, what have I done?" 406 00:22:29,757 --> 00:22:33,237 - See I've still got my ideals - and I'm being honest about it! 407 00:22:33,582 --> 00:22:38,596 and my husband thinks the same, at times you think "christ, what have I done?" 408 00:22:39,453 --> 00:22:40,855 - But then if... - But marriage... 409 00:22:40,856 --> 00:22:42,152 Marriage means a different thing to me 410 00:22:42,153 --> 00:22:45,799 I've still got my ideals about marriage, I don't know what it's all about, obviously 411 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,894 So I've still got pictures of 412 00:22:47,895 --> 00:22:50,262 - Cosy evenings indoors...yeah - With roses! 413 00:22:50,263 --> 00:22:53,309 She'd have cosy evenings indoors with the central heating! 414 00:22:54,066 --> 00:22:55,329 Or lack of it! 415 00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:57,922 - Yeah, I've got a lot to learn about .... getting married 416 00:22:57,923 --> 00:23:02,101 I mean, your parents split up soon after you were fourteen 417 00:23:03,701 --> 00:23:06,285 What sort of influence, effect did that have on you? 418 00:23:08,167 --> 00:23:12,370 Well I was the only child going through their parents splitting up aged 14 419 00:23:12,371 --> 00:23:16,571 at a very vulnerable age and it does touch you up, but... 420 00:23:17,575 --> 00:23:19,334 You know, you get over it 421 00:23:20,526 --> 00:23:23,007 There was no point in them staying together for me 422 00:23:23,008 --> 00:23:25,403 if it was worse, I mean the rows and... 423 00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:27,473 and it's worse 424 00:23:27,474 --> 00:23:30,457 so if two people can't live together there's no point in making yourself 425 00:23:30,458 --> 00:23:32,684 even for the sake of children 426 00:23:34,692 --> 00:23:38,852 What is your attitude towards marriage? for yourself? 427 00:23:42,992 --> 00:23:46,915 Well I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought as I'm very cynical about it 428 00:23:50,361 --> 00:23:53,430 But then you get a certain amount of faith restored in it 429 00:23:53,431 --> 00:23:57,769 I mean I've got friends and their parents are happily married 430 00:23:57,770 --> 00:24:02,035 and it does put faith back into you but me myself I'm very cynical about it 431 00:24:02,475 --> 00:24:03,674 Why? 432 00:24:04,209 --> 00:24:07,991 Because I think it kills whatever love is 433 00:24:09,043 --> 00:24:11,538 it just seems to go wrong 434 00:24:11,902 --> 00:24:13,985 What do you base that on? 435 00:24:15,536 --> 00:24:19,708 Well, people I've seen, people around me 436 00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:23,953 I mean I've got....not a lot of my friends are married 437 00:24:26,666 --> 00:24:32,353 a lot of people who are 20,30 all seem to be getting divorced and can't stay together 438 00:24:33,292 --> 00:24:36,584 and at the moment I just don't really believe in it 439 00:24:37,068 --> 00:24:39,712 Why do you think people can't hold marriages together? 440 00:24:41,616 --> 00:24:44,166 I don't know, I really don't know 441 00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:47,753 I don't sort of sit down and think "ooh ...analyse marriage" 442 00:24:47,754 --> 00:24:52,216 It's not something I've had to think about whether I was going to get married 443 00:24:52,217 --> 00:24:57,201 and I've got no desire to at the moment, I think twenty is far too young 444 00:24:57,942 --> 00:24:59,259 What was the wedding like? 445 00:24:59,627 --> 00:25:02,498 Our wedding? a laugh! 446 00:25:07,062 --> 00:25:10,569 I wanted, white wedding, all trimmings 447 00:25:12,586 --> 00:25:16,337 My husband would've been satisfied with very little 448 00:25:16,338 --> 00:25:19,797 but being as we were going into it as a full thing 449 00:25:19,798 --> 00:25:21,441 we went into it 450 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:24,492 I had an all white wedding, all white 451 00:25:24,493 --> 00:25:27,539 We were both in white and my bridesmaid was in white 452 00:25:29,353 --> 00:25:31,533 It's a funny day actually 453 00:25:32,943 --> 00:25:36,613 because I suppose I was up somewhere around the five o'clock mark 454 00:25:37,054 --> 00:25:39,277 and I spent all day preparing 455 00:25:39,278 --> 00:25:41,803 well all morning I should say 456 00:25:41,804 --> 00:25:44,422 and then sitting around for about three hours 457 00:25:44,423 --> 00:25:48,263 just waiting for something to happen then when it did happen I don't remember it 458 00:25:48,264 --> 00:25:49,292 So 459 00:25:49,293 --> 00:25:51,927 it was just complete confusion really 460 00:25:52,639 --> 00:25:54,731 - It was a nice day though - Oh yeah 461 00:25:54,732 --> 00:25:58,209 It was funny actually, you can imagine some of the comments 462 00:25:59,689 --> 00:26:04,514 I was pleased I was there, it seemed the right place to be 463 00:26:04,515 --> 00:26:07,932 I mean I was glad I was at her wedding, I've known her a long while 464 00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:11,314 Did anything happen? Anything funny? 465 00:26:12,785 --> 00:26:15,433 I can�t forget the cake 466 00:26:16,321 --> 00:26:20,900 It was horrific really, the cake what happened to the wedding cake 467 00:26:21,147 --> 00:26:24,987 it was sitting right in between Mick and myself 468 00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:29,955 suddenly the columns just completely gave way and it just all fell into one 469 00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:33,329 - It was a nice cake though! - Yeah it wasn't bad! 470 00:26:33,982 --> 00:26:36,519 I read the Financial Times 471 00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:39,691 I read the Observer and the Times 472 00:26:39,692 --> 00:26:41,531 What do you like about it? 473 00:26:41,532 --> 00:26:43,229 Well I like... 474 00:26:43,230 --> 00:26:47,655 I usually look at the headlines then read about them 475 00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:49,740 about it 476 00:26:50,355 --> 00:26:54,261 I like my newspaper because I've got shares in it 477 00:26:54,262 --> 00:26:59,154 - and I know every day what the shares are - The stuff that misers like you like! 478 00:26:59,172 --> 00:27:03,604 But on Monday's they don't move up so I don't look at it 479 00:27:03,605 --> 00:27:07,522 That's one of the troubles with this sort of program, I don't really think that people like us 480 00:27:08,487 --> 00:27:11,537 Unless we're seven and being rather funny, have very much to say that's... 481 00:27:11,843 --> 00:27:14,051 very interesting, because I mean... 482 00:27:14,393 --> 00:27:15,961 we don�t know very much 483 00:27:16,215 --> 00:27:18,400 Well we didn't know very much when we were seven 484 00:27:18,401 --> 00:27:19,918 - But we were still quite funny - We were at least funny! 485 00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:21,891 - Yes! - Yes! - In ourselves! 486 00:27:21,892 --> 00:27:24,724 I agree with John, all we can say is what we think 487 00:27:24,725 --> 00:27:26,670 and if that's of interest to people, good luck to them 488 00:27:26,671 --> 00:27:29,678 Yes and I can't believe it is 489 00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:31,221 More fool them! 490 00:27:31,222 --> 00:27:36,377 When I leave this school I'm going to College Court 491 00:27:39,289 --> 00:27:43,643 then I would be going to Westminster Boarding School if I pass the exam 492 00:27:44,672 --> 00:27:47,627 and then we think I'm going to 493 00:27:47,828 --> 00:27:50,091 Cambridge and Trinity Hall 494 00:27:50,459 --> 00:27:54,004 John is in his final year at Christchurch Oxford, reading Law 495 00:27:54,005 --> 00:27:58,039 I do believe parents have a right to educate their children as they think fit 496 00:27:59,087 --> 00:28:05,312 I think someone who works on an assembly line in a car factory, earning a huge wage 497 00:28:05,313 --> 00:28:08,789 could well afford to send their children to private school if they wanted to 498 00:28:08,790 --> 00:28:11,277 Just because.. 499 00:28:11,278 --> 00:28:15,290 some sort of people perhaps don't put that as high on their priorities as... 500 00:28:15,291 --> 00:28:17,801 having a smart car or something 501 00:28:17,802 --> 00:28:22,233 I don't think that's any reason for abolishing public school 502 00:28:22,234 --> 00:28:26,216 I think an awful lot more people could afford to send their sons to school 503 00:28:26,217 --> 00:28:28,525 You know, to fee paying school 504 00:28:28,526 --> 00:28:32,238 But they don't choose to, and that's their choice 505 00:28:32,556 --> 00:28:35,243 I'm going to Charterhouse 506 00:28:35,529 --> 00:28:40,872 and after that, Trinity Hall Cambridge 507 00:28:40,873 --> 00:28:44,227 Andrew is in his last year at Trinity College Cambridge, reading Law 508 00:28:44,228 --> 00:28:49,428 I think if people earn their money they should have a right to spend it 509 00:28:49,429 --> 00:28:52,138 an education is very important 510 00:28:52,139 --> 00:28:57,859 and you can never be sure of leaving your children any worldly goods but 511 00:28:57,860 --> 00:29:01,240 at least you can be sure that once you've given them a good education 512 00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:03,725 that's something that no one can take away 513 00:29:03,985 --> 00:29:05,969 What about university Charlie? 514 00:29:05,970 --> 00:29:08,331 I might go to Oxford 515 00:29:08,754 --> 00:29:12,326 You're reading history at Durham University, you didn't make Oxford 516 00:29:12,327 --> 00:29:14,267 What are your feelings about that? 517 00:29:14,268 --> 00:29:16,087 I don't mind at all 518 00:29:16,498 --> 00:29:18,225 In fact 519 00:29:19,907 --> 00:29:22,059 I'd say I'm pleased I didn't 520 00:29:22,060 --> 00:29:25,336 because it was very much a sort of 521 00:29:26,482 --> 00:29:30,333 sort of set of Marlborough Prep School 522 00:29:30,334 --> 00:29:34,635 Marlborough, Oxbridge, conveyor belt 523 00:29:34,636 --> 00:29:37,295 you get shoved out at the end 524 00:29:37,296 --> 00:29:38,853 and you... 525 00:29:39,149 --> 00:29:43,137 when you go to Oxbridge and it's obviously not true in all cases but 526 00:29:43,138 --> 00:29:44,691 I think for the majority 527 00:29:44,692 --> 00:29:48,949 they mix with the same people they were at school with 528 00:29:49,871 --> 00:29:51,871 So what attracts you to Oxford? 529 00:29:51,872 --> 00:29:54,725 Well first of all it's such a beautiful place 530 00:29:54,726 --> 00:29:58,080 there's more to it than just studying away at one's books 531 00:29:58,381 --> 00:30:00,741 I think it's very difficult not to get something out of it 532 00:30:00,742 --> 00:30:02,395 there�s such a sort of... 533 00:30:02,396 --> 00:30:05,471 atmosphere of culture and... 534 00:30:05,915 --> 00:30:10,969 and timelessness about the place that I think you do sort of mature an awful lot 535 00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:14,881 So what is Beagling? 536 00:30:14,882 --> 00:30:18,707 Beagling is the hunting of the hare 537 00:30:18,708 --> 00:30:21,248 with a pack of hounds, done on foot 538 00:30:21,503 --> 00:30:24,347 I mean a lot of people seem to imagine 539 00:30:24,579 --> 00:30:28,063 a days hunting with either fox to hunt or beagles 540 00:30:29,155 --> 00:30:32,741 unadulterated butchery. I mean this just isn't true, I think 541 00:30:32,742 --> 00:30:35,607 I wish people had a more realistic idea of what it's about 542 00:30:40,503 --> 00:30:42,815 The hounds are over there I think 543 00:30:43,531 --> 00:30:46,407 I saw them last streaming along that hedge there 544 00:30:53,265 --> 00:30:55,202 - Frustrating isn't it? - Yes 545 00:30:59,995 --> 00:31:02,765 I'm reasonably old fashioned about some things but I mean 546 00:31:02,766 --> 00:31:06,557 I mean people who go on a lot about the permissive society are missing the point 547 00:31:06,558 --> 00:31:10,047 if they think the only thing that's wrong is sex 548 00:31:10,048 --> 00:31:16,139 I think you know, decreasing respect for the family as a unit 549 00:31:17,827 --> 00:31:21,905 increasing dishonesty, both in business.... 550 00:31:21,906 --> 00:31:26,869 there used to be much more much stronger developed ideas of commercial integrity 551 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:31,644 than seem to be going around nowadays, nowadays people seem to be out for themselves 552 00:31:34,672 --> 00:31:39,343 I really do think I suppose there is an invasion by the American way of life 553 00:31:39,579 --> 00:31:43,055 which I think is a very sad thing 554 00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:46,976 Is that unstoppable? That trend do you think? 555 00:31:47,429 --> 00:31:49,909 I think it really is unfortunately, yes 556 00:31:52,027 --> 00:31:54,411 So where does that leave your values? 557 00:31:55,959 --> 00:31:58,291 Well it leaves them with me 558 00:31:58,527 --> 00:32:04,571 and my future children whom I shall implicate them in 559 00:32:05,123 --> 00:32:08,965 But do you not find yourself isolated? 560 00:32:08,966 --> 00:32:10,365 That really doesn't matter 561 00:32:10,366 --> 00:32:14,143 If I believe my principals are right 562 00:32:14,144 --> 00:32:16,719 and I'm doing the right thing to bring my children up by them 563 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,711 it won't matter to me whether I'm living in the middle-ages mentally 564 00:32:20,712 --> 00:32:22,919 I shall do what's right 565 00:32:24,351 --> 00:32:27,765 Well when I was very small my father always used to go ski-ing 566 00:32:27,967 --> 00:32:29,887 and he took me with him 567 00:32:30,161 --> 00:32:32,561 and we've been ever since really 568 00:32:32,750 --> 00:32:35,017 and how old or young were you when you started? 569 00:32:35,238 --> 00:32:38,513 Oh about five, on tiny little ski's 570 00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:41,478 it was quite frightening then 571 00:32:41,479 --> 00:32:42,919 what is the appeal of it? 572 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,725 Well the sort of freedom and going in the snow and the mountains 573 00:32:48,129 --> 00:32:50,435 and the feeling of speed 574 00:32:50,436 --> 00:32:53,027 and getting away from people if you can 575 00:32:53,337 --> 00:32:55,575 Do you save up to come ski-ing or...? 576 00:32:55,576 --> 00:32:57,688 I don't but my father does 577 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,357 as he pays for me 578 00:33:00,621 --> 00:33:04,981 Your parents have been divorced since fourteen 579 00:33:05,271 --> 00:33:07,784 - Since you were fourteen - That's right, quite recently yes 580 00:33:07,785 --> 00:33:10,273 Tell me about that and the influence it's had on you 581 00:33:10,717 --> 00:33:12,767 Well not much influence in fact 582 00:33:12,818 --> 00:33:15,517 because it's happened when I'm quite old 583 00:33:15,518 --> 00:33:17,974 and I'm away from home a lot anyway 584 00:33:17,975 --> 00:33:21,087 it's very sad of course 585 00:33:21,088 --> 00:33:23,561 but I don't think it has had a great deal of influence 586 00:33:23,562 --> 00:33:26,588 if it had happened when I was much younger 587 00:33:26,589 --> 00:33:28,727 it would've had much more influence 588 00:33:28,728 --> 00:33:31,357 an adverse influence I would've thought 589 00:33:31,358 --> 00:33:36,088 Did your parents divorce leave any lasting mark on you? 590 00:33:36,892 --> 00:33:38,248 I don't know, I mean 591 00:33:38,249 --> 00:33:40,452 seen the film at fourteen so 592 00:33:41,282 --> 00:33:45,857 and that's of our closest time, I would've thought it did but... 593 00:33:45,858 --> 00:33:48,115 don't talk about that anyway so... 594 00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:49,071 Why? 595 00:33:50,544 --> 00:33:52,591 I think it's unfair on them 596 00:33:55,461 --> 00:33:58,579 Very few parents I think, bring up their children... 597 00:33:59,467 --> 00:34:04,115 with the intention of belittling them or doing as little for them as possible 598 00:34:04,116 --> 00:34:04,953 I think 599 00:34:04,988 --> 00:34:07,659 you have to assume that most parents do as much as they can 600 00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:10,150 given the circumstances of the children 601 00:34:10,537 --> 00:34:13,239 and obviously things could've been far worse 602 00:34:14,217 --> 00:34:18,216 Do you think it's changed your attitude to marriage? or... 603 00:34:18,217 --> 00:34:20,645 It just means that 604 00:34:20,646 --> 00:34:24,410 because I was faced with that situation I have an attitude which is a positive attitude 605 00:34:24,411 --> 00:34:28,106 rather than "well everybody else gets married therefore I shall get married" 606 00:34:32,684 --> 00:34:37,372 My attitude would be that if one is going to have children 607 00:34:37,373 --> 00:34:42,590 if you want to have children then that's a very real reason for getting married 608 00:34:42,591 --> 00:34:44,509 but if you get married... 609 00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:47,634 it's an agreement to make the thing work for eighteen years 610 00:34:47,635 --> 00:34:51,056 or however long it is until the children have grown up 611 00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:56,829 no there's no point in just sitting it out for eighteen years 612 00:34:56,830 --> 00:35:00,308 there's nothing worse than that, it would be better for the parents to get a divorce 613 00:35:00,309 --> 00:35:02,236 I think people 614 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:06,156 perhaps don't make as much effort 615 00:35:06,157 --> 00:35:09,112 as they should have, or should do to make marriages work 616 00:35:09,113 --> 00:35:12,366 it's very easy for me to say so as I've never been in the position 617 00:35:12,664 --> 00:35:15,691 In what way should people make more effort? 618 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,526 I think people just take too much for granted when they get married 619 00:35:21,527 --> 00:35:23,652 or used to, not now perhaps 620 00:35:23,653 --> 00:35:26,094 I mean, I don't know about you for instance 621 00:35:26,095 --> 00:35:29,848 I know my mother, she's said that 622 00:35:29,849 --> 00:35:32,300 she's spoilt really 623 00:35:32,301 --> 00:35:36,019 and she never realised how lucky she'd been until she'd been divorced 624 00:35:36,020 --> 00:35:38,018 Up to about twelve 625 00:35:38,808 --> 00:35:40,598 maybe it's different with other people, but 626 00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:44,476 I found that you're much more attached to your parents 627 00:35:44,477 --> 00:35:47,601 once you come to about thirteen, fourteen 628 00:35:48,605 --> 00:35:50,875 you're not quite so attached to them 629 00:35:50,876 --> 00:35:54,863 I think the system of having house captains 630 00:35:54,864 --> 00:35:55,981 is rather good 631 00:35:55,982 --> 00:35:58,430 because when somebody is naughty 632 00:35:58,431 --> 00:36:02,494 the house captain asks him and... 633 00:36:03,484 --> 00:36:05,677 and has a talk to him 634 00:36:05,678 --> 00:36:09,544 once I had a talk to Grevil, he was in my house 635 00:36:10,587 --> 00:36:11,787 and 636 00:36:12,078 --> 00:36:18,619 I asked Sir if he could put him out of my house because he was always getting minuses 637 00:36:18,963 --> 00:36:20,564 What did Sir say? 638 00:36:20,565 --> 00:36:24,392 Sir said that he would... 639 00:36:24,393 --> 00:36:26,544 we would see about it this term 640 00:36:26,545 --> 00:36:29,669 Well I think it's a very good system 641 00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:31,480 Have you had to speak to anyone? 642 00:36:31,481 --> 00:36:35,354 - Just because you are one I suppose? - No, no I haven't! 643 00:36:35,355 --> 00:36:37,219 - You're not are you? - But I am! 644 00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:40,546 Straw, Mac and Nessie got three minuses in a day 645 00:36:43,013 --> 00:36:46,088 If I work in Law I should like a reasonable amount of success 646 00:36:46,089 --> 00:36:49,030 I shouldn't like to be on the bread-line which is all to common 647 00:36:49,031 --> 00:36:51,351 I'd like to be a Solicitor 648 00:36:51,352 --> 00:36:53,599 and, also fairly successful 649 00:36:53,827 --> 00:36:55,493 I only know what I don't want and that's 650 00:36:55,494 --> 00:36:59,247 a nuclear family in a semi-detached in Brentford 651 00:36:59,248 --> 00:37:00,921 Do you three see yourselves... 652 00:37:00,922 --> 00:37:04,375 staying in England, living in England, making your careers in England? 653 00:37:05,213 --> 00:37:06,313 Yes 654 00:37:06,669 --> 00:37:09,789 Well the trouble is Law is not really very exportable 655 00:37:10,750 --> 00:37:12,455 From my point of view anyway 656 00:37:12,456 --> 00:37:13,656 I quite like England 657 00:37:13,657 --> 00:37:17,798 'cause I can't say I really approve very much of the sort people who emigrate 658 00:37:18,017 --> 00:37:19,932 I mean it's too easy for people who... 659 00:37:19,933 --> 00:37:23,917 this is where I would agree with you about people who have had opportunities 660 00:37:23,918 --> 00:37:27,670 I do think they've got a corresponding duty to sort of put back.... 661 00:37:27,671 --> 00:37:31,667 you know, people who have had things going well for them 662 00:37:31,668 --> 00:37:36,361 really ought to stay and help the country out when things aren't going very well 663 00:37:37,188 --> 00:37:39,492 I don't believe in all this pulling one's money out 664 00:37:39,493 --> 00:37:42,783 but that's a moral point of view, I do believe people have the right to live where they like 665 00:37:42,784 --> 00:37:44,423 and also to move their assets around 666 00:37:44,424 --> 00:37:48,508 but on a moral level I do feel very strongly that people shouldn't quit 667 00:37:50,053 --> 00:37:52,750 - Is that why you don't want to leave? - Yes 668 00:37:53,153 --> 00:37:57,355 and also I can't imagine anywhere so nice as England 669 00:37:58,534 --> 00:38:02,530 Probably stay in England for the reasons that John put forward, I think one has a moral duty 670 00:38:02,837 --> 00:38:05,004 It sounds terrible but, you know...if... 671 00:38:05,569 --> 00:38:08,682 It's up to one certainly to make an attempt 672 00:38:08,683 --> 00:38:13,756 to put something back in to whatever it is that you're doing in England 673 00:38:14,072 --> 00:38:17,961 Having used the various facilities that are put out for you by the state 674 00:38:17,962 --> 00:38:21,325 I think the more you've had out of the country 675 00:38:21,815 --> 00:38:23,958 the more privileges you're born with 676 00:38:23,959 --> 00:38:26,399 the greater your duty is 677 00:38:27,968 --> 00:38:31,354 We chose two boys from a children's home in Middlesex 678 00:38:31,355 --> 00:38:32,439 Paul 679 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,095 Say you had a wife 680 00:38:37,008 --> 00:38:40,243 say you had to eat what they cooked you 681 00:38:41,115 --> 00:38:44,315 and say I don't like vegetables, well I don't 682 00:38:45,621 --> 00:38:50,468 and say she said "you have to eat what you get" 683 00:38:50,504 --> 00:38:56,635 So I don't like vegetables so say she gives me vegetables then that's it 684 00:38:56,636 --> 00:38:58,910 Well as far as I know my mother and father got... 685 00:38:58,911 --> 00:39:01,373 well they separated originally I think 686 00:39:03,097 --> 00:39:04,953 they eventually got divorced 687 00:39:05,221 --> 00:39:09,119 I went to the boarding school for one year then we emigrated to Australia 688 00:39:10,223 --> 00:39:12,451 my father got remarried 689 00:39:14,179 --> 00:39:16,346 and how do you get on with your step-mum? 690 00:39:17,011 --> 00:39:21,043 pretty well but like I said before I'm just not close enough 691 00:39:21,044 --> 00:39:23,838 I'm not really close to my father either 692 00:39:24,340 --> 00:39:27,168 Paul left the children's home when he was eight 693 00:39:27,169 --> 00:39:29,807 Our other boy stayed until he was thirteen 694 00:39:29,808 --> 00:39:31,158 Symon 695 00:39:31,921 --> 00:39:35,200 Was it difficult moving from the home back to live with your mother? 696 00:39:35,201 --> 00:39:38,958 - You're still here after, eight years now? - Yeah yeah 697 00:39:38,959 --> 00:39:41,757 Well I find it's comfortable 698 00:39:42,302 --> 00:39:45,755 See I can get on well with my mother sometimes 699 00:39:46,834 --> 00:39:49,107 well that's good because a lot of ... 700 00:39:49,108 --> 00:39:53,462 young children can't get on with their parents at all at this time of the year, their life 701 00:39:54,191 --> 00:39:56,797 but I get on pretty well with my mum now 702 00:39:58,315 --> 00:40:00,490 we talk very well with each other 703 00:40:00,491 --> 00:40:01,744 but it's.. 704 00:40:01,745 --> 00:40:04,618 sometimes not quite as mother and son 705 00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:06,477 sort of more like friends 706 00:40:06,478 --> 00:40:08,771 What sort of life does your mother have? 707 00:40:08,772 --> 00:40:12,511 Well it seems hard, I mean she's always been... 708 00:40:13,068 --> 00:40:14,569 nervous 709 00:40:14,570 --> 00:40:16,265 not all the time, but... 710 00:40:16,266 --> 00:40:20,743 she has periods of depression or deep depression or whatever you want to call it 711 00:40:21,603 --> 00:40:24,633 that sort of makes me think "well what happened there?" 712 00:40:25,053 --> 00:40:27,449 What effect has that had on you do you think? 713 00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:31,552 Well it's made me very sort of protective towards her 714 00:40:31,553 --> 00:40:34,804 I feel I've got to help her all the time 715 00:40:34,805 --> 00:40:37,231 They say "Where's your father then?" 716 00:40:37,232 --> 00:40:40,644 You know when your mums out at work "Where's your father?" 717 00:40:40,645 --> 00:40:43,464 and I just tell them I ain't got one 718 00:40:48,481 --> 00:40:50,907 What effect has that had on you? 719 00:40:52,206 --> 00:40:55,742 Well I don't think it's had any effect on me, 'cause... 720 00:40:57,471 --> 00:41:00,225 what you don't have you don't miss 721 00:41:00,226 --> 00:41:02,706 Twenty years ago 722 00:41:03,843 --> 00:41:05,323 when I was born 723 00:41:05,779 --> 00:41:07,648 an illegitimate child, you know 724 00:41:07,649 --> 00:41:10,658 that's something that's only whispered about 725 00:41:11,106 --> 00:41:15,226 people feel strongly about it in those days 726 00:41:15,227 --> 00:41:18,062 but nowadays it's.. 727 00:41:19,296 --> 00:41:20,588 it's not a serious matter 728 00:41:20,589 --> 00:41:24,048 the serious point is whether you stay with someone or you leave them 729 00:41:24,264 --> 00:41:28,063 We took Paul and Symon round the buildings which were once the children's home 730 00:41:28,064 --> 00:41:31,626 I remember this path but I've never walked on it was out of bounds 731 00:41:31,627 --> 00:41:34,947 the only place I saw this was from out the windows and that 732 00:41:34,948 --> 00:41:37,519 - What was that there? - That? That was eh... 733 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,188 That was hospital juniors, that's where we used to be 734 00:41:40,189 --> 00:41:41,696 - Really? - Yeah 735 00:41:41,697 --> 00:41:44,106 I don�t like the big boys 736 00:41:44,107 --> 00:41:45,830 Hitting us and... 737 00:41:45,831 --> 00:41:48,234 and the staff is up in the washroom 738 00:41:48,235 --> 00:41:51,431 sends the nurse out, "well there's no talking" 739 00:41:51,432 --> 00:41:53,485 "No I wasn't talking today" 740 00:41:53,486 --> 00:41:56,212 Then Brown sent me out for nothing 741 00:42:01,968 --> 00:42:03,470 Remember the tiles? 742 00:42:03,471 --> 00:42:06,172 - No not really - Yeah I remember them when they were cleaner 743 00:42:06,173 --> 00:42:10,142 - I remember the two offices - Yeah the doctors and the nurses 744 00:42:10,769 --> 00:42:12,452 Some things gone 745 00:42:12,453 --> 00:42:14,519 - The seats - Yeah the seats 746 00:42:14,812 --> 00:42:17,437 The smell, the smells gone 747 00:42:18,227 --> 00:42:20,114 - Remember Midgely - Yeah 748 00:42:20,115 --> 00:42:22,410 He was a real bastard 749 00:42:22,411 --> 00:42:25,010 I remember one night, I forget what I actually did 750 00:42:25,011 --> 00:42:27,778 But he made me clean all the shoes in the house 751 00:42:27,779 --> 00:42:31,057 there was about fifty pair of shoes and took about two hours or something 752 00:42:31,508 --> 00:42:37,187 Well I feel like joining in when there's already a fight 753 00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:39,728 Ah do you remember Froggy Page? 754 00:42:39,729 --> 00:42:40,734 No 755 00:42:41,531 --> 00:42:43,444 He was the tailor 756 00:42:43,445 --> 00:42:45,190 - I remember him - Tailor? 757 00:42:45,191 --> 00:42:47,582 Yeah he was here for thirty-seven years or something 758 00:42:47,583 --> 00:42:50,521 bent over backwards or bent over forwards or something 759 00:42:51,204 --> 00:42:52,950 - The golf course - Yeah 760 00:42:52,951 --> 00:42:56,212 Used to think about running away over that when you'd get scared 761 00:42:56,213 --> 00:42:59,971 That's where the headmaster's son used to shoot the squirrel's off the trees isn't it - yeah 762 00:42:59,972 --> 00:43:01,784 Do you remember the boy that 763 00:43:01,785 --> 00:43:04,170 in the senior part 764 00:43:04,171 --> 00:43:05,817 where my brother was, he 765 00:43:05,818 --> 00:43:09,619 he was sleeping one time and he went out the second story window 766 00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:12,402 Oh the sleep walker, Weaver, Robert Weaver 767 00:43:12,403 --> 00:43:14,546 - We all had to pray for him - Yeah 768 00:43:15,992 --> 00:43:18,488 - Everybody said he had a steel plate in his head - Yeah 769 00:43:18,489 --> 00:43:22,335 How have you got on with Symon? after you haven't seen him for fourteen years 770 00:43:23,855 --> 00:43:26,896 Well I didn't recognise him at all 771 00:43:27,984 --> 00:43:31,520 I think we got along really well, I don't know what he'd say to that but 772 00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:35,374 I found him very likeable 773 00:43:37,874 --> 00:43:42,508 He's just the sort of person who if I could I'd like to do something for them 774 00:43:42,843 --> 00:43:47,370 Because I feel I've got, no offence to him, but I feel I've got more than him 775 00:43:47,371 --> 00:43:49,360 It's just that it seems to me that 776 00:43:49,911 --> 00:43:53,127 things have fallen into line now for me 777 00:43:53,489 --> 00:43:56,758 Every thing's started to come good, I've started to enjoy life 778 00:43:57,826 --> 00:44:01,585 and I've started to think "well I'm not a no hoper" 779 00:44:01,586 --> 00:44:05,584 Because I think that's what I've always thought about myself 780 00:44:05,585 --> 00:44:08,395 I know I didn't have any confidence in myself 781 00:44:08,692 --> 00:44:11,524 despite what I said when I was fourteen 782 00:44:11,525 --> 00:44:13,506 I've always lacked confidence 783 00:44:13,507 --> 00:44:16,312 I still do to a certain extent but nothing 784 00:44:16,596 --> 00:44:20,052 nothing like I did say when I was fourteen 785 00:44:21,268 --> 00:44:23,922 The job I'm in, I mean, brick laying 786 00:44:24,882 --> 00:44:28,032 I mean I enjoy it, it interests me 787 00:44:29,138 --> 00:44:31,225 and I'm very content at work 788 00:44:33,495 --> 00:44:37,544 in June last year I was made a junior partner 789 00:44:38,343 --> 00:44:41,509 though that was through circumstances 790 00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:43,881 but I look at it this way 791 00:44:43,882 --> 00:44:45,829 I'm not great with my life 792 00:44:45,830 --> 00:44:49,034 but if I wasn't good enough and my boss didn't think I was good enough 793 00:44:49,035 --> 00:44:51,327 he would've never made me a junior partner 794 00:44:51,328 --> 00:44:52,988 as for the job 795 00:44:52,989 --> 00:44:54,589 you know, you build a house 796 00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:57,060 then you turn around and look at it and say "well I did that" 797 00:44:57,061 --> 00:45:00,005 it's better than having a whole row of figures 798 00:45:00,006 --> 00:45:02,323 it's substance you know, there's something there 799 00:45:04,517 --> 00:45:08,641 Symon works in the freezer room of a meat company near his home in Middlesex 800 00:45:09,939 --> 00:45:12,019 My job�s running away from me 801 00:45:14,713 --> 00:45:18,679 You do jobs which I suppose are fairly routine and dull 802 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,747 - Yeah - What keeps you going during them? 803 00:45:22,863 --> 00:45:25,041 Oh it's definitely the people there 804 00:45:26,061 --> 00:45:29,428 You work up a kind of team spirit there, y'know what I mean 805 00:45:29,851 --> 00:45:31,709 You can ..... 806 00:45:32,989 --> 00:45:35,595 think about all the work you've got to do in the morning 807 00:45:35,596 --> 00:45:37,318 and you just don't want to go 808 00:45:37,319 --> 00:45:40,341 but once you get there just sort of generally.... 809 00:45:40,342 --> 00:45:42,935 I was going to say messing around there, I won't say that 810 00:45:42,936 --> 00:45:44,497 the managers might see it 811 00:45:44,498 --> 00:45:46,073 sort of joking about 812 00:45:46,074 --> 00:45:49,433 they make you feel you want to get the work done 813 00:45:49,434 --> 00:45:50,605 Go out and get some 814 00:45:52,001 --> 00:45:53,185 just ask for them 815 00:45:53,186 --> 00:45:56,575 and we always say 816 00:45:57,094 --> 00:46:00,197 when we come out of the chiller we don't want to go back in 817 00:46:00,198 --> 00:46:03,089 but when we get back in we get on with it 818 00:46:05,234 --> 00:46:07,467 So are you a good time keeper? 819 00:46:07,468 --> 00:46:09,033 Ah it depends 820 00:46:09,215 --> 00:46:11,065 Usually I try to get to work early 821 00:46:11,066 --> 00:46:14,521 but I have periods of where I just say "sod it" 822 00:46:15,246 --> 00:46:17,795 if I get there I get there 823 00:46:18,621 --> 00:46:21,303 I think the hardest thing is to get up in the morning 824 00:46:21,304 --> 00:46:23,377 for me it takes a great deal out of me now 825 00:46:23,378 --> 00:46:26,673 Do you never feel you should be doing better jobs than these? 826 00:46:26,674 --> 00:46:28,714 Aren't you worth more than this? 827 00:46:32,477 --> 00:46:34,751 No I haven't really 828 00:46:34,752 --> 00:46:37,229 I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know 829 00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:38,835 But eh... 830 00:46:39,809 --> 00:46:42,855 It's never really sort of worried me 831 00:46:42,856 --> 00:46:46,115 I suppose it should but it just hasn't 832 00:46:47,211 --> 00:46:49,941 and how do you see the future as far as work goes? 833 00:46:53,168 --> 00:46:57,163 Well I know I can't stay at Walls forever, I mean it's just not me 834 00:46:57,253 --> 00:47:01,292 I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead 835 00:47:01,859 --> 00:47:03,315 But eh... 836 00:47:06,295 --> 00:47:10,037 I think if I really wanted to I could learn a trade, even now 837 00:47:10,914 --> 00:47:17,281 Y'know if I really felt that I ought to get out and do something different 838 00:47:17,282 --> 00:47:19,659 I could learn a trade if I wanted to 839 00:47:20,347 --> 00:47:24,053 and what would you like to be doing say in seven years? 840 00:47:28,543 --> 00:47:32,032 Well I couldn't really say I haven't thought one year ahead yet 841 00:47:33,451 --> 00:47:35,819 I think I'm still sort of young in my head 842 00:47:36,118 --> 00:47:38,716 I don't really sort of take things seriously 843 00:47:38,717 --> 00:47:40,938 All I want out of life is to be happy 844 00:47:40,939 --> 00:47:44,515 and when I say happy I want to be happily married as well 845 00:47:44,516 --> 00:47:49,014 because I can't say I don't want to get married 846 00:47:49,015 --> 00:47:50,661 because I think I do 847 00:47:50,662 --> 00:47:52,542 but I want to be happily married y'know 848 00:47:52,543 --> 00:47:54,923 therefore I want to make sure I think 849 00:47:54,924 --> 00:47:57,691 How would you define happiness? What is it? 850 00:48:00,827 --> 00:48:04,026 Basically to me it's the will to live 851 00:48:05,749 --> 00:48:09,333 I mean, me I literally love life, I love people 852 00:48:09,334 --> 00:48:11,581 I mean I think before I didn't 853 00:48:11,582 --> 00:48:14,144 I mean, when I was fourteen I said 854 00:48:14,427 --> 00:48:16,921 I've forgotten what the question was but I said 855 00:48:17,815 --> 00:48:19,496 something about I want to be alone 856 00:48:19,497 --> 00:48:23,385 and when I said that I know even now I meant that 857 00:48:23,386 --> 00:48:25,861 if someone had dropped me out in the Sahara Desert 858 00:48:26,635 --> 00:48:29,627 I probably would've been happy more or less if you get the point 859 00:48:30,603 --> 00:48:32,962 Whereas I'm not like that now, I'd sooner be around people 860 00:48:32,963 --> 00:48:35,881 I don't like doing things by myself 861 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:43,349 and happiness to me is a love for life and a love for people 862 00:48:44,717 --> 00:48:48,291 I think I admire people with great determination 863 00:48:48,292 --> 00:48:51,435 y'know like people who just come up from nothing 864 00:48:51,436 --> 00:48:54,089 they build up their life from absolutely nothing 865 00:48:58,651 --> 00:49:00,907 I could say Muhammad Ali 866 00:49:00,908 --> 00:49:03,747 because he absolutely came from nothing 867 00:49:05,129 --> 00:49:09,801 I mean you can't agree with everything he says but his word goes down now 868 00:49:09,802 --> 00:49:14,343 he's the biggest thing in sport he's one of the biggest things in life 869 00:49:16,579 --> 00:49:18,259 I mean people like him 870 00:49:19,805 --> 00:49:26,776 What when you look at yourself do you think your weaknesses and strengths are? 871 00:49:35,836 --> 00:49:39,449 I think my main weakness is I don't really take a grip of life 872 00:49:39,450 --> 00:49:41,068 I don't really look... 873 00:49:42,457 --> 00:49:46,945 I always look deeply into it but it just seems to be ... 874 00:49:46,946 --> 00:49:51,364 just a sort of hobby with me, I look at everything and I criticise it 875 00:49:51,365 --> 00:49:55,673 and I work everything out but after that I just sort of leave it 876 00:49:55,674 --> 00:49:58,800 I find it hard to express emotion most of the time 877 00:49:58,801 --> 00:50:01,367 although I'm getting on top of that 878 00:50:01,368 --> 00:50:03,234 more happy now? 879 00:50:03,625 --> 00:50:07,928 just the simple things to say to Susan, y'know "I love you" or something like that 880 00:50:08,441 --> 00:50:10,712 I mean I can tell you about it but 881 00:50:11,487 --> 00:50:15,311 I really haven't been able to say it freely to Susan 882 00:50:16,125 --> 00:50:18,557 I suppose that's a weakness 883 00:50:18,558 --> 00:50:20,053 Do you have a dream? 884 00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:22,173 A dream? not.... 885 00:50:22,174 --> 00:50:27,747 Not so much a dream but I know if I ever wanted to get on I could do it 886 00:50:28,663 --> 00:50:33,977 I mean I always feel that I've got something inside me that would make me move 887 00:50:34,353 --> 00:50:36,241 But eh... 888 00:50:37,341 --> 00:50:40,539 I think what it is really is I'm just waiting for an excuse to use it 889 00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:45,520 Y'know at the moment I feel ok just getting on with my life 890 00:50:46,029 --> 00:50:48,190 just sort of keeping up 891 00:50:48,479 --> 00:50:51,359 but I know if I really wanted to I could get on 892 00:50:52,003 --> 00:50:54,899 It'll only take a little spark with me to do it 893 00:50:59,457 --> 00:51:02,572 Is it important to fight? Yes 894 00:51:13,581 --> 00:51:17,003 Would everybody please sit round now and get on with their work 895 00:51:17,004 --> 00:51:19,887 I don't want to see any backs to me 896 00:51:20,567 --> 00:51:23,750 Shouldn't be anybody turning round, Tony do you hear aswell? 897 00:51:25,443 --> 00:51:27,439 Get on with your work in front 898 00:51:28,477 --> 00:51:30,027 Tony! 899 00:51:30,407 --> 00:51:32,040 Don't turn round again 900 00:51:32,810 --> 00:51:35,961 I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up 901 00:51:42,739 --> 00:51:45,989 Tony left his Eastend secondary modern school at fifteen 902 00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:49,843 and became an apprentice at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom 903 00:51:55,498 --> 00:51:58,525 This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newberry 904 00:52:00,587 --> 00:52:02,035 I'm the one with the white cap 905 00:52:02,036 --> 00:52:05,721 I was beaten a length and a half for third and had a photo finish 906 00:52:06,219 --> 00:52:08,881 so I took it out the box and kept it as a souvenir 907 00:52:08,882 --> 00:52:10,921 Have you any other pictures of you as a jockey? 908 00:52:10,922 --> 00:52:13,479 Yeah I've got a lot of them 909 00:52:13,921 --> 00:52:15,071 Show me that one 910 00:52:16,215 --> 00:52:18,919 That one when I was at Windsor 911 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,100 that was my last ride on the old horse, Sharrod Heath that was 912 00:52:22,341 --> 00:52:24,805 he was a lovely old horse, I'll never forget him 913 00:52:24,806 --> 00:52:26,405 How many rides did you have? 914 00:52:26,851 --> 00:52:28,035 Only three 915 00:52:28,551 --> 00:52:29,885 Why was that? 916 00:52:30,117 --> 00:52:32,821 Well obviously if I was good enough I would've had more 917 00:52:32,822 --> 00:52:36,879 that was the first day I ever put myself in jockey silks 918 00:52:37,155 --> 00:52:39,155 that was my first ride ever 919 00:52:39,156 --> 00:52:40,914 How did it feel like? 920 00:52:40,915 --> 00:52:44,439 It feel like there's no words that can explain how it felt 921 00:52:44,673 --> 00:52:47,338 that one was when I was going to the parade ring 922 00:52:48,469 --> 00:52:50,623 They're not very good 923 00:52:50,624 --> 00:52:53,778 my brother, I mean he's not no good at taking photos 924 00:52:53,779 --> 00:52:55,583 He's no Lord Snowdon 925 00:52:55,584 --> 00:52:57,433 But describe the feeling, go on 926 00:52:57,434 --> 00:52:59,399 Describe, well....I mean I.. 927 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,430 Frankie Durr right, he was told to look after me 928 00:53:02,431 --> 00:53:05,137 so I went in there I said "I don't know my first ride" 929 00:53:05,138 --> 00:53:09,495 and he said "alright don't worry, your boss has told me to look after you" 930 00:53:09,839 --> 00:53:10,785 and so 931 00:53:10,786 --> 00:53:12,891 I was changing into my silks 932 00:53:12,892 --> 00:53:16,175 and I felt good y'know, I could see all the faces that I think 933 00:53:16,176 --> 00:53:19,759 and when I look at the newspaper I think, Jeff Lewis, Frankie Durr and... 934 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,288 I thought to myself all of a sudden I'm in the same room getting changed 935 00:53:23,289 --> 00:53:24,884 Then I walked in the parade room 936 00:53:24,885 --> 00:53:26,576 the parade ring and eh... 937 00:53:26,577 --> 00:53:29,521 and all my family's there and they're all going "Go on Tone!" 938 00:53:30,045 --> 00:53:31,676 and the boss came over and he said 939 00:53:31,677 --> 00:53:34,584 you've got to do this to the horse, you hold him back, you go half pace 940 00:53:34,585 --> 00:53:36,865 keep your hands down, keep him in the rails 941 00:53:36,866 --> 00:53:38,851 and I'm going "yeah yeah" like, nod 942 00:53:38,852 --> 00:53:42,025 and all of a sudden when he said "Jockeys please mount" 943 00:53:42,026 --> 00:53:43,723 and the bell went "Ding ding" 944 00:53:43,724 --> 00:53:46,716 and my heart just sunk because I thought to myself 945 00:53:46,717 --> 00:53:49,185 Here I was yesterday a sort of nobody 946 00:53:49,186 --> 00:53:52,235 and here I am today, I'm king like 947 00:53:52,236 --> 00:53:55,047 I felt king for one day, well for ten minutes 948 00:53:55,048 --> 00:53:56,727 Do you regret not making it? 949 00:53:56,899 --> 00:54:00,708 Well I would've given my right arm at the time to become a jockey 950 00:54:01,077 --> 00:54:02,863 But now... 951 00:54:02,864 --> 00:54:06,069 well I wasn't good enough, it's as easy as that 952 00:54:06,070 --> 00:54:08,892 What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey? 953 00:54:08,893 --> 00:54:10,503 I don't know 954 00:54:10,504 --> 00:54:13,369 If I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game 955 00:54:14,765 --> 00:54:16,373 wouldn't bother 956 00:54:16,374 --> 00:54:18,555 and what do you think you would do then? 957 00:54:19,175 --> 00:54:20,789 Learn taxi's 958 00:54:21,365 --> 00:54:23,329 Taxi driver 959 00:54:29,541 --> 00:54:32,317 I will be a cab driver right, how can I fail? 960 00:54:32,318 --> 00:54:34,607 I got one brother taxi driver pulling me 961 00:54:34,608 --> 00:54:37,791 and the other brother pushing me so I got to make it 962 00:54:38,191 --> 00:54:40,518 I will be a cab driver and I know I will 963 00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:44,075 and I'm going to prove every person who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong 964 00:54:44,305 --> 00:54:47,872 and I'm going to get that badge and put it right in their face 965 00:54:47,873 --> 00:54:51,599 just to tell them how wrong they can be and how under estimated I am 966 00:54:52,938 --> 00:54:56,903 Doing the taxi knowledge means Tony going out on his motorbike every day 967 00:54:56,904 --> 00:54:59,709 and learning the hundreds of routes round the streets of London 968 00:54:59,710 --> 00:55:03,143 Well I can just get up, go on my bike, do two runs, come home 969 00:55:03,144 --> 00:55:08,585 call them over then boom, I've done my days work then I go out here and earn my money 970 00:55:09,399 --> 00:55:11,928 Hackney Wick it's my sort of living 971 00:55:11,929 --> 00:55:14,433 I can say until the time I am a cab driver 972 00:55:14,434 --> 00:55:17,318 But mean my freedom's here and that is the main thing what I want 973 00:55:17,585 --> 00:55:22,145 Tony spends his spare time at Hackney Wick Greyhound Stadium placing bets for the punters 974 00:55:22,233 --> 00:55:24,271 Fifty-five to twenty Boris 975 00:55:35,441 --> 00:55:38,151 Five to one Cooladine 976 00:55:38,462 --> 00:55:40,105 Four and a half fifty's, four and a half fifty's 977 00:55:42,335 --> 00:55:44,579 Poor-Sunshine fourteen to one 978 00:55:44,580 --> 00:55:46,276 Take it, take it! 979 00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:49,881 If your father gambles you always looked upon how he gambles 980 00:55:49,882 --> 00:55:51,820 I tried my luck and see what he does 981 00:55:52,522 --> 00:55:55,017 and I took it from there, it's sort of in you 982 00:55:55,018 --> 00:55:59,263 some people drink and they can't get out of drinking, some people smoke and can't stop smoking 983 00:55:59,264 --> 00:56:02,599 well I think I'm firmly on the ground as a gambler 984 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,277 I know you can't win gambling, putting money on the dogs and horses, I know that 985 00:56:06,278 --> 00:56:09,893 But when you put other peoples money on you can't lose 986 00:56:09,894 --> 00:56:11,384 What do they call you here? 987 00:56:11,385 --> 00:56:13,966 I reckon a pest, or something like that 988 00:56:13,967 --> 00:56:17,735 'cause I'm always running and doing everything that I shouldn't be doing 989 00:56:18,403 --> 00:56:21,469 I thought I was going to get barred one day 'cause I used to... 990 00:56:21,470 --> 00:56:23,666 Well I don't mean to make a nuisance of myself 991 00:56:23,667 --> 00:56:27,150 I mean if the other patrons of the place 992 00:56:27,151 --> 00:56:29,981 they don't want to see a little boy nipping between their feet 993 00:56:29,982 --> 00:56:32,448 running, putting a bet on for a person 994 00:56:32,449 --> 00:56:35,073 You understand? they think "cor what's he doing is he mad?" 995 00:56:35,074 --> 00:56:38,111 I mean I walk up there I order the teas 996 00:56:38,112 --> 00:56:40,455 There could be eight people in front of me, I just go... 997 00:56:40,456 --> 00:56:42,581 Can I have a tea please, tea please, five times 998 00:56:42,582 --> 00:56:43,751 tea please tea please 999 00:56:43,752 --> 00:56:46,759 and they've got to serve me before them to get rid of me, do you understand? 1000 00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:49,424 So that�s how you've got to do it 1001 00:56:49,572 --> 00:56:52,086 Just keep on and on and on and they go 1002 00:56:52,087 --> 00:56:54,921 "oh driving me mad, here you are, get rid of him" it's as easy as that 1003 00:56:55,603 --> 00:56:58,784 That's the way to get on in life, just be a noise, annoyed 1004 00:56:59,145 --> 00:57:03,898 annoyance all the time to a person and they go "oh he's driving me mad, get him away from me 1005 00:57:03,899 --> 00:57:06,440 and more or less they give you the first option 1006 00:57:06,441 --> 00:57:08,225 sort of find that 1007 00:57:08,461 --> 00:57:11,885 You're very short, has that had much trouble? 1008 00:57:11,886 --> 00:57:14,197 Well a bird said to me the other day 1009 00:57:14,198 --> 00:57:15,777 She said "ain't you small" 1010 00:57:15,778 --> 00:57:18,467 So I said "but you're ugly at least I can grow" 1011 00:57:18,468 --> 00:57:21,707 What can they say to that? they can't say nothing can they? 1012 00:57:21,708 --> 00:57:23,378 to a thing like that, or... 1013 00:57:23,379 --> 00:57:24,557 or example... 1014 00:57:24,558 --> 00:57:28,099 She said to me "Ain't you small" so I looked at her tits and she was only about a thirty 1015 00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:31,187 I said "But you're not too big either so we're both in the same way" 1016 00:57:31,493 --> 00:57:33,561 - Have you got a girlfriend? - No 1017 00:57:33,729 --> 00:57:36,481 Would you like to have a girlfriend? 1018 00:57:36,482 --> 00:57:37,307 No 1019 00:57:37,308 --> 00:57:39,005 Do you understand "The Four F's?" 1020 00:57:39,006 --> 00:57:41,183 Find the, feed them, forget them 1021 00:57:41,184 --> 00:57:44,244 for the other F I'll let you use your own discrimination 1022 00:57:44,245 --> 00:57:45,063 I mean... 1023 00:57:45,064 --> 00:57:46,523 this one 1024 00:57:46,524 --> 00:57:48,457 I tried to do the three F's 1025 00:57:48,777 --> 00:57:50,611 but I couldn't forget her 1026 00:57:51,001 --> 00:57:53,567 I'd done the three F's but I couldn't forget her 1027 00:57:53,568 --> 00:57:55,961 It sounds silly but that's the only way I can put it 1028 00:57:56,199 --> 00:57:59,091 Tell me about the family, are you fairly closely knit? 1029 00:57:59,332 --> 00:58:00,853 Well I love them all 1030 00:58:00,854 --> 00:58:04,142 There's not one I don't love more than the other, other than my mum obviously 1031 00:58:04,143 --> 00:58:08,630 but your mum is the root of the tree, you love your mum best 1032 00:58:08,631 --> 00:58:11,042 So what do you like about living in the Eastend? 1033 00:58:11,043 --> 00:58:14,175 It's very sort of real, there's nothing false 1034 00:58:14,395 --> 00:58:16,267 only the police! 1035 00:58:16,627 --> 00:58:20,735 I'm firmly placed and there's no way I can see getting out, I wouldn't want to get out really 1036 00:58:20,736 --> 00:58:26,095 It's very hard to make it in the Eastend because the roots are firmly stuck in the ground 1037 00:58:26,096 --> 00:58:28,345 and you've got to have a big hard pull to get them out 1038 00:58:28,346 --> 00:58:30,437 So are there many villains in the Eastend? 1039 00:58:31,209 --> 00:58:33,354 There has been in the time I suppose 1040 00:58:33,355 --> 00:58:36,063 the originals were the Kray twins 1041 00:58:36,064 --> 00:58:38,653 We're in Vallance Rd now, as it goes they used to live here 1042 00:58:38,654 --> 00:58:41,847 in a house they used to call Fort Vallance 1043 00:58:41,848 --> 00:58:44,291 'cause it was that hard to get into I expect 1044 00:58:44,547 --> 00:58:46,503 Do you have much to do with villains? 1045 00:58:46,504 --> 00:58:50,085 I can't say I have much to do, I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself 1046 00:58:50,086 --> 00:58:53,221 I don't go thieving and don't do anybody any harm fighting wise 1047 00:58:53,222 --> 00:58:55,023 I'm trying to say that 1048 00:58:55,024 --> 00:59:00,023 Wherever you go there's villains and whether you mix with them or not it's up to you 1049 00:59:00,167 --> 00:59:03,351 Does it worry you the possibility of becoming one of them? 1050 00:59:03,352 --> 00:59:05,473 How can I become a villain? 1051 00:59:05,474 --> 00:59:08,375 If it's not in there, it's not born in there you won't become one 1052 00:59:08,376 --> 00:59:11,329 Don't you think you're going to regret not having an education? 1053 00:59:11,506 --> 00:59:14,321 Where does that come into it? it doesn't come into it in my mind? 1054 00:59:14,322 --> 00:59:18,391 Education is just a thing to say "my son is higher than him" 1055 00:59:18,392 --> 00:59:20,707 or "my son had a better background than him" 1056 00:59:20,708 --> 00:59:22,247 I mean 1057 00:59:22,248 --> 00:59:25,605 I'm as good or even better than most of them people 1058 00:59:25,606 --> 00:59:28,011 especially on this program 1059 00:59:28,012 --> 00:59:29,004 I mean 1060 00:59:29,223 --> 00:59:31,016 On one of the trailers you'll think 1061 00:59:31,017 --> 00:59:33,957 oh the Eastend boy and he ain't got a no good education 1062 00:59:33,958 --> 00:59:37,811 but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car and a motorbike and he goes to Spain every year 1063 00:59:37,812 --> 00:59:39,127 and whatever 1064 00:59:39,461 --> 00:59:41,128 and have I worked for it? 1065 00:59:41,129 --> 00:59:42,780 No I'm here putting bets on 1066 00:59:42,781 --> 00:59:44,605 and you think "how does he do it?" 1067 00:59:44,606 --> 00:59:46,870 and there's a boy, who's he? and whatever 1068 00:59:46,871 --> 00:59:50,763 he's studying to be a professor, he's making up things 1069 00:59:50,764 --> 00:59:53,419 They're mainly education, there's no education in this world 1070 00:59:53,420 --> 00:59:55,587 Just one big rat race and you've got to 1071 00:59:55,588 --> 00:59:58,449 kill your man next to you to get in front of him 1072 00:59:58,625 --> 01:00:02,065 What do you think about trade unions and things like that? 1073 01:00:02,066 --> 01:00:04,167 I don�t under know I don't 1074 01:00:04,611 --> 01:00:06,931 I don't know enough to know about them if you understand me 1075 01:00:07,675 --> 01:00:08,903 I mean 1076 01:00:08,904 --> 01:00:13,207 I'm not a politician so let them worry about what's coming for the next day 1077 01:00:13,493 --> 01:00:14,809 all I understand is 1078 01:00:14,810 --> 01:00:20,544 dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares and mum and dad and love 1079 01:00:20,545 --> 01:00:23,467 that's all I understand that's all I want to understand 1080 01:00:30,756 --> 01:00:32,087 Here you are 1081 01:00:35,269 --> 01:00:37,003 Come on three chase it 1082 01:00:37,710 --> 01:00:39,335 Come on boy 1083 01:00:39,836 --> 01:00:41,845 Go on three inside 1084 01:00:44,098 --> 01:00:46,043 Come on three??? 1085 01:00:46,668 --> 01:00:48,857 He's checking everywhere.... 1086 01:00:48,858 --> 01:00:51,413 Well going to Africa 1087 01:00:51,414 --> 01:00:55,817 and try and teach people who are not civilised 1088 01:00:56,083 --> 01:00:59,343 to be more or less good 1089 01:00:59,344 --> 01:01:03,766 No I don't want to be a missionary because I just can't talk about it to people 1090 01:01:04,442 --> 01:01:09,642 Y'know, I am interested in it myself but I wouldn't be very good at it at all 1091 01:01:10,448 --> 01:01:12,272 and I wouldn't enjoy it 1092 01:01:13,018 --> 01:01:15,156 Why wouldn�t you be good at it 1093 01:01:16,607 --> 01:01:19,513 Well I'm just not very good at... 1094 01:01:19,514 --> 01:01:24,658 at standing up in front of people and making a speech or anything like that 1095 01:01:24,659 --> 01:01:27,301 I'd like to keep it private, y'know 1096 01:01:27,302 --> 01:01:30,686 Is it possible you might ever think of going to the church? 1097 01:01:32,672 --> 01:01:35,807 It is possible, I've never said no definitely 1098 01:01:36,176 --> 01:01:40,019 But I wouldn't be doing it after I go to university 1099 01:01:40,020 --> 01:01:44,407 I mean it's just possible in ten years time I suppose 1100 01:01:46,224 --> 01:01:48,561 What would draw you to the church? 1101 01:01:50,996 --> 01:01:55,609 I don't know, it wouldn't be dissatisfaction with whatever I'm doing at the moment 1102 01:01:56,831 --> 01:01:58,580 In a way 1103 01:01:58,847 --> 01:02:02,226 If whatever I was doing I was doing very successfully 1104 01:02:03,702 --> 01:02:07,128 then that would be a better reason for going into the church really 1105 01:02:07,129 --> 01:02:10,691 or at least if I did go into the church it would meant I was giving something up 1106 01:02:10,692 --> 01:02:12,007 But 1107 01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:17,685 I think the wrong reasons are if you are dissatisfied with what you're doing 1108 01:02:17,686 --> 01:02:22,782 in the general sense of doing a job badly or 1109 01:02:22,783 --> 01:02:25,177 a failure in some sort of way 1110 01:02:25,734 --> 01:02:30,219 Bruce is in his final year at University College Oxford, reading mathematics 1111 01:02:31,043 --> 01:02:36,114 and by Eisenstien you can show that this is irreducible 1112 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,975 then you do a transformation on this ???? x = to T 2 1113 01:02:41,894 --> 01:02:46,422 which you find is T cubed plus 17 squared plus 14 T plus 7 1114 01:02:47,138 --> 01:02:47,936 and 1115 01:02:47,937 --> 01:02:50,582 you observe that seven which is a prime 1116 01:02:50,826 --> 01:02:53,370 divides the co-efficient of T squared 1117 01:02:53,371 --> 01:02:56,152 T and the constant, not T cubed 1118 01:02:56,309 --> 01:03:00,742 and seven squared doesn't divide the constant term 1119 01:03:00,743 --> 01:03:02,926 so by Eisenstien 1120 01:03:02,927 --> 01:03:04,723 this is irreducible 1121 01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:08,751 so therefore two cross, two by seven is of degree three 1122 01:03:09,019 --> 01:03:11,451 and that length isn't constructable 1123 01:03:12,207 --> 01:03:14,327 from the quarry of our original theorem 1124 01:03:14,328 --> 01:03:16,270 so therefore the septagon's not constructable 1125 01:03:16,271 --> 01:03:20,102 Well that's a nice way of doing it, particularly using Eisenstien down here 1126 01:03:20,103 --> 01:03:23,583 his test is very popular, he was an interesting mathematician 1127 01:03:23,584 --> 01:03:26,701 What sort of job are you going to try for? 1128 01:03:28,969 --> 01:03:33,206 Well there was one job, I'd like to make maps really 1129 01:03:34,180 --> 01:03:37,586 and it's nice sort of outdoor life 1130 01:03:38,586 --> 01:03:41,394 you go to...I mean you travel around 1131 01:03:41,395 --> 01:03:42,534 and eh... 1132 01:03:43,003 --> 01:03:45,450 but there are very few jobs like that going 1133 01:03:45,451 --> 01:03:49,330 I'm sort of qualified, a general maths or science degree would do 1134 01:03:49,331 --> 01:03:51,504 or geography degree 1135 01:03:51,885 --> 01:03:53,438 But eh... 1136 01:03:56,404 --> 01:03:59,787 I think I've probably missed it this time round 1137 01:04:00,032 --> 01:04:01,932 and eh....but that's only.... 1138 01:04:01,933 --> 01:04:05,190 perhaps I won't like making maps, it's something that I think I would do 1139 01:04:14,892 --> 01:04:18,840 Millbrook probably had a great influence on me in a way 1140 01:04:18,841 --> 01:04:22,165 I mean I was absolutely shocked rigid when I went to my prep school 1141 01:04:22,166 --> 01:04:24,972 and found people who thought of doing things wrong 1142 01:04:24,973 --> 01:04:28,709 I never really upset anyone or questioned authority 1143 01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:32,461 or misbehaved in any of my two later schools 1144 01:04:32,462 --> 01:04:39,266 which may seem an ideal thing but it's probably healthy to question why you have to do certain things 1145 01:04:39,611 --> 01:04:41,323 which I never did 1146 01:04:41,324 --> 01:04:45,376 Bruce was a border at this pre-preparatory school from the age of five 1147 01:04:46,763 --> 01:04:48,935 Squad left foot in one place 1148 01:04:50,858 --> 01:04:52,455 squad breathe in 1149 01:04:52,456 --> 01:04:55,798 Well it is mainly this lack of responsibility 1150 01:04:55,799 --> 01:04:57,397 for doing jobs given to me 1151 01:04:57,398 --> 01:05:00,622 people will say "why haven't you done this? Look you've upset us" 1152 01:05:00,623 --> 01:05:06,549 I was secretary of bridge society, chess society, cricket society 1153 01:05:07,005 --> 01:05:09,149 Scottish dancing society 1154 01:05:09,150 --> 01:05:12,484 and I didn't do anything for any of them, they were all very angry 1155 01:05:13,227 --> 01:05:17,456 and I spent last summer term in total seclusion 1156 01:05:17,457 --> 01:05:19,968 I saw maybe half a dozen people all term 1157 01:05:19,969 --> 01:05:22,014 in my room, darting across courts 1158 01:05:22,712 --> 01:05:26,742 people would say "I saw Balden today" and they'd say "No? really?" 1159 01:05:27,938 --> 01:05:29,562 it was awful really 1160 01:05:29,563 --> 01:05:34,964 My hearts desire is to see my daddy who is six thousand miles away 1161 01:05:35,373 --> 01:05:38,941 Y'know I've been getting on well with my step-father 1162 01:05:39,512 --> 01:05:42,263 and I like seeing my father occasionally 1163 01:05:42,523 --> 01:05:45,034 and he does come over from Rhodesia 1164 01:05:45,035 --> 01:05:51,187 What effect has the fact that you've seen very little of your father had on you? 1165 01:05:52,094 --> 01:05:55,159 Nothing really, I only ...something I regret that... 1166 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,646 I didn't really get to know him better at all 1167 01:06:00,766 --> 01:06:04,335 We've written and we're both very bad writers, I'm probably worse than him 1168 01:06:05,308 --> 01:06:06,368 and eh... 1169 01:06:06,770 --> 01:06:10,948 that's something I regret is not having a just a regular correspondence 1170 01:06:12,335 --> 01:06:14,929 because I think he's an interesting man actually 1171 01:06:16,506 --> 01:06:17,994 and eh... 1172 01:06:18,744 --> 01:06:20,656 he probably regrets it as well 1173 01:06:20,657 --> 01:06:23,036 What do you think about your own upbringing? 1174 01:06:23,037 --> 01:06:26,308 what have been the strongest influences on that? 1175 01:06:27,656 --> 01:06:31,920 Probably to not let down my mother really 1176 01:06:31,921 --> 01:06:35,940 because she's worked awfully hard to get me through school 1177 01:06:36,728 --> 01:06:37,610 and 1178 01:06:38,206 --> 01:06:40,319 I haven't let her down yet 1179 01:06:43,576 --> 01:06:44,620 then.. 1180 01:06:44,621 --> 01:06:48,544 as far as...eh ...not having... 1181 01:06:48,967 --> 01:06:51,515 my mothers divorce 1182 01:06:51,516 --> 01:06:55,280 I don't think that really has the effect that people imagine it to have 1183 01:06:55,702 --> 01:06:59,708 I mean I always have got on well with my stepfather 1184 01:07:00,398 --> 01:07:05,642 and with my half-sister, so in that sense I've had a family life 1185 01:07:06,006 --> 01:07:08,801 I'd help people if I had a chance 1186 01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:16,086 Y'know by say giving a little bit of money to charity or sponsoring things 1187 01:07:16,087 --> 01:07:17,740 or things like that 1188 01:07:17,741 --> 01:07:21,308 Well I took nine months off 1189 01:07:21,309 --> 01:07:23,587 between school and university 1190 01:07:25,188 --> 01:07:29,879 and there I taught at a school and worked in the Banbury sewage works 1191 01:07:31,414 --> 01:07:33,717 two months 1192 01:07:34,104 --> 01:07:35,928 What sort of school was it? 1193 01:07:36,452 --> 01:07:39,812 Well I never like admitting this but it was a handicapped school 1194 01:07:39,813 --> 01:07:42,421 I mean 1195 01:07:42,422 --> 01:07:46,187 it seems to present me as wanting to do these things 1196 01:07:46,188 --> 01:07:47,922 I suppose in a way I do, and 1197 01:07:47,923 --> 01:07:51,736 I do get some satisfaction from doing it, but.... 1198 01:07:52,769 --> 01:07:55,226 I could so easily have done something else 1199 01:07:55,227 --> 01:08:00,384 it was just almost an accident that I ended up at the spastic school 1200 01:08:01,271 --> 01:08:02,720 and eh... 1201 01:08:02,721 --> 01:08:04,759 I'm glad I did it because I enjoyed it 1202 01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,021 not for its.... 1203 01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:11,662 I suppose slightly charitable nature of the work, but 1204 01:08:12,556 --> 01:08:16,382 the people I met, work, it was quite good 1205 01:08:16,383 --> 01:08:20,370 Why are you frightened of presenting this image of yourself 1206 01:08:25,297 --> 01:08:27,353 It's... 1207 01:08:28,827 --> 01:08:31,588 It�s possibly because I 1208 01:08:32,886 --> 01:08:35,619 I don't know, I never want to feel to proud really 1209 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:43,032 I mean it's dangerous for a start and it's so easy 1210 01:08:43,033 --> 01:08:43,618 and 1211 01:08:45,708 --> 01:08:49,764 it doesn't work in a way because I can try and pretend to be humble 1212 01:08:49,765 --> 01:08:54,044 that's being proud in just the same sort of way 1213 01:08:54,607 --> 01:08:57,484 I find it a very difficult thing to avoid, pride 1214 01:08:57,485 --> 01:08:59,858 Tell me, are you interested in politics at all? 1215 01:09:01,305 --> 01:09:04,628 Not as much as I was 1216 01:09:06,420 --> 01:09:10,756 I am about the only socialist in my village 1217 01:09:11,347 --> 01:09:13,283 and I go into the pub 1218 01:09:15,370 --> 01:09:19,959 and sort of expect to stand up and defend all socialist policies 1219 01:09:20,406 --> 01:09:22,841 sort of, this is the village socialist 1220 01:09:22,842 --> 01:09:25,375 no, village idiot, sorry 1221 01:09:26,446 --> 01:09:29,519 you agree with all this immigration so I stand up and defend it 1222 01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,143 and it's awfully hard work though I think I'm going to give that up 1223 01:09:34,837 --> 01:09:38,735 So where do you stand politically now then? 1224 01:09:39,878 --> 01:09:44,137 I'm still socialist but not as energetically as I was I suppose 1225 01:09:46,759 --> 01:09:49,818 What do you think about the way England's being run at the moment? 1226 01:09:54,527 --> 01:09:56,222 Well... 1227 01:10:00,081 --> 01:10:02,427 I'm glad the socialist's are in power because 1228 01:10:02,793 --> 01:10:08,581 This illusive thing called freedom is sort of rearing its head 1229 01:10:08,582 --> 01:10:11,513 and the conservatives are pushing it forward 1230 01:10:11,514 --> 01:10:16,373 and I thought this argument was smashed 1231 01:10:16,374 --> 01:10:19,323 at the early years of this century but it seems to be coming back 1232 01:10:19,324 --> 01:10:21,885 and it really is exceptionally dangerous because 1233 01:10:21,886 --> 01:10:24,257 the more you try and defend freedom 1234 01:10:24,949 --> 01:10:29,189 you allow everybody to do exactly what they like within limits 1235 01:10:29,190 --> 01:10:31,527 then the less you have 1236 01:10:31,763 --> 01:10:36,763 I mean there's no freedom in living in a slum 1237 01:10:38,174 --> 01:10:40,166 It's alright you can say the chap can do whatever he wants 1238 01:10:40,167 --> 01:10:42,977 he can get a better job or anything but that's just not the case 1239 01:10:42,978 --> 01:10:45,376 the more you defend freedom the less you have it 1240 01:10:45,377 --> 01:10:49,813 Well my girlfriend is in Africa 1241 01:10:49,992 --> 01:10:53,741 and I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again 1242 01:10:53,742 --> 01:10:55,080 Have you got any girlfriends? 1243 01:10:55,081 --> 01:10:57,307 No, not yet 1244 01:10:57,684 --> 01:11:00,820 I'm sure it will come, but not yet 1245 01:11:00,821 --> 01:11:03,137 What is your attitude to sex? 1246 01:11:04,988 --> 01:11:10,521 Well it's not quite, normal attitude to anti-sex 1247 01:11:18,065 --> 01:11:21,877 I mean I as it were burnt my fingers a little 1248 01:11:24,165 --> 01:11:27,989 I don't feel as though I'm missing anything now 1249 01:11:29,487 --> 01:11:31,813 I don't feel a need for it 1250 01:11:33,419 --> 01:11:37,516 and I'm quite happy at not feeling a need for it really 1251 01:11:40,527 --> 01:11:45,211 I mean I do think a lot of people think too much about it 1252 01:11:46,102 --> 01:11:48,100 What happened when you burnt your fingers? 1253 01:11:53,793 --> 01:11:56,647 I'd rather not talk about it really 1254 01:11:57,730 --> 01:11:59,714 well no in fact I don't really mean that 1255 01:11:59,715 --> 01:12:02,451 I don't mean I don't want to talk about it 1256 01:12:02,452 --> 01:12:05,510 it's just I'd need quite a long time to think about it really 1257 01:12:06,257 --> 01:12:07,569 Why? 1258 01:12:12,215 --> 01:12:15,872 Well in the end I decided the eh... 1259 01:12:18,114 --> 01:12:22,649 the effect, the pleasure, or... 1260 01:12:24,506 --> 01:12:26,858 just didn't seem worth it really 1261 01:12:26,859 --> 01:12:29,123 didn't seem worth... 1262 01:12:40,562 --> 01:12:42,258 See I think there's two different sorts 1263 01:12:42,259 --> 01:12:46,477 there's casual sex then there's sex in love and marriage 1264 01:12:46,978 --> 01:12:48,590 and 1265 01:12:50,975 --> 01:12:53,149 casual seks is not... 1266 01:12:53,437 --> 01:12:56,219 I don't think it's quite as widespread as people believed 1267 01:12:56,220 --> 01:12:58,065 because 1268 01:12:59,584 --> 01:13:04,347 if both the people treat it as casual sex then I think it's alright 1269 01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:06,731 but 1270 01:13:08,573 --> 01:13:11,239 if you're sort of looking for 1271 01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,861 I don't know this may seem awfully silly but 1272 01:13:13,862 --> 01:13:17,802 if you're looking for casual sex but don't want to treat it as such 1273 01:13:17,803 --> 01:13:22,907 then it doesn't seem to be worth the lies, I don't know the... 1274 01:13:23,967 --> 01:13:26,011 the sort of effort 1275 01:13:26,385 --> 01:13:29,285 - Is this what happened to you? - I suppose in a way yes 1276 01:13:30,437 --> 01:13:31,658 Have you been in love? 1277 01:13:31,659 --> 01:13:33,169 No, no 1278 01:13:34,485 --> 01:13:36,835 and eh... 1279 01:13:37,503 --> 01:13:39,935 I think I'll probably have to wait for that really 1280 01:13:39,936 --> 01:13:42,110 Play international wrestling 1281 01:13:42,111 --> 01:13:44,529 Yeah that's only at summertime though 1282 01:13:44,530 --> 01:13:46,621 Yeah summer we can go on the grass 1283 01:13:53,525 --> 01:13:56,598 Neil went to a comprehensive school in Liverpool 1284 01:13:56,599 --> 01:14:00,966 got four A-levels then walked out of Aberdeen university after one term 1285 01:14:00,967 --> 01:14:03,927 and is now doing casual labour in London 1286 01:14:03,928 --> 01:14:08,352 I came to London I think because I wanted to start a new life really 1287 01:14:08,543 --> 01:14:12,124 I'd left the university in Aberdeen 1288 01:14:12,125 --> 01:14:14,459 in the end of nineteen seventy-five 1289 01:14:14,651 --> 01:14:18,522 and I became conscious of the fact that I was drifting around 1290 01:14:18,745 --> 01:14:24,625 which I suppose I'm still doing here but at least I took the decision to move myself 1291 01:14:24,984 --> 01:14:30,473 and I think possibly there's more challenge in London than there ever could be in Aberdeen 1292 01:14:31,570 --> 01:14:33,960 Peter, Neil's school friend from Liverpool 1293 01:14:33,961 --> 01:14:37,439 is now in his last year at London university, reading history 1294 01:14:38,017 --> 01:14:41,041 It was obviously a big step 1295 01:14:41,475 --> 01:14:45,285 it was exciting more than anything, I mean that sounds corny but it was 1296 01:14:45,286 --> 01:14:47,258 Do you remember the day you left Liverpool? 1297 01:14:47,259 --> 01:14:48,824 Yeah very well 1298 01:14:49,131 --> 01:14:51,931 It was pouring down with rain, I remember that 1299 01:14:52,021 --> 01:14:55,708 just had the traditional send of from the train station, my mum and dad were there 1300 01:14:56,423 --> 01:14:59,831 a couple of mates turned up at the last minute, from the school to see me 1301 01:15:00,857 --> 01:15:03,493 - Catch a girl and kiss a girl - Yeah 1302 01:15:03,889 --> 01:15:05,289 and what happens then? 1303 01:15:05,290 --> 01:15:08,377 - Well the girls are all screaming - Yeah 1304 01:15:08,947 --> 01:15:12,582 and then we catch them we kiss them 1305 01:15:12,583 --> 01:15:15,327 We're interested in contrast with you and Neil 1306 01:15:15,328 --> 01:15:20,605 were you aware of differences in home background at the time? 1307 01:15:20,606 --> 01:15:24,739 Oh sure yeah, I mean both Neil's parents are teachers as you know 1308 01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,107 that's got to be a hell of a difference for a start 1309 01:15:28,461 --> 01:15:31,552 I mean, I'm not knocking them for a minute, they're very nice people 1310 01:15:31,743 --> 01:15:33,009 but eh... 1311 01:15:33,010 --> 01:15:37,987 there's obviously going to be some sort of academic type atmosphere in the house 1312 01:15:39,066 --> 01:15:42,427 which I did notice one or two times 1313 01:15:43,420 --> 01:15:44,924 but I think Neil 1314 01:15:45,221 --> 01:15:49,605 whether by design or just by the situation he was in 1315 01:15:49,606 --> 01:15:52,023 was obviously going to be under more pressure 1316 01:15:52,684 --> 01:15:57,835 I came to London and I contacted an agency for squatters 1317 01:15:58,562 --> 01:16:02,642 and they were able to give me the address of somebody 1318 01:16:02,643 --> 01:16:07,374 who was able to help people who were looking for accommodation in the London area 1319 01:16:08,083 --> 01:16:10,952 and by a process of chasing people around 1320 01:16:10,953 --> 01:16:14,113 I eventually managed to find this place here 1321 01:16:14,950 --> 01:16:20,806 I wouldn't squat in a place which I knew to be owned by somebody else 1322 01:16:20,807 --> 01:16:24,816 I wouldn't, certainly because I knew if I had a place of my own 1323 01:16:24,817 --> 01:16:27,167 and found somebody squatting in it I'd be disgusted 1324 01:16:27,168 --> 01:16:29,435 But this place was empty 1325 01:16:29,709 --> 01:16:33,485 and I was simply offered a place to live here and was very grateful for it 1326 01:16:33,747 --> 01:16:36,755 and I think in questions of squatting 1327 01:16:37,037 --> 01:16:43,020 a bit of humanity is more important that vain rules about who can live where 1328 01:16:50,969 --> 01:16:53,711 In contrast, Peter lives in a flat in North London 1329 01:16:53,712 --> 01:16:55,417 sharing with three other students 1330 01:16:55,418 --> 01:16:58,257 there have been three guys living here originally 1331 01:16:58,397 --> 01:17:00,045 and one of them left 1332 01:17:00,285 --> 01:17:03,197 to get engaged, virtually married 1333 01:17:03,515 --> 01:17:06,984 and the flat was meant for four in the first place 1334 01:17:07,461 --> 01:17:10,461 so Dave and Trev asked Ian and I if we'd like to move in 1335 01:17:10,462 --> 01:17:13,608 because we did 'cause we'd been searching for a flat for some months 1336 01:17:14,217 --> 01:17:16,579 so we jumped at the opportunity really 1337 01:17:18,443 --> 01:17:21,627 I've got my own room, I can cook whenever I like 1338 01:17:22,372 --> 01:17:25,257 I haven't got a landlady to tell me what time to come in 1339 01:17:25,258 --> 01:17:27,204 I've got my own front door key 1340 01:17:29,609 --> 01:17:32,748 and to tell the truth it's a lot better than a lot of the accommodation I've had 1341 01:17:32,749 --> 01:17:35,583 over the last eighteen months or so 1342 01:17:35,584 --> 01:17:37,845 it could be a bit warmer, it's a bit chilly 1343 01:17:38,589 --> 01:17:40,220 but eh... 1344 01:17:41,623 --> 01:17:44,605 it's perfectly satisfactory for the time being 1345 01:17:58,591 --> 01:18:00,767 These are obvious restrictions, y'know 1346 01:18:00,768 --> 01:18:02,475 not able to cook for yourself 1347 01:18:02,476 --> 01:18:04,291 you've got to think for yourself a lot more 1348 01:18:04,292 --> 01:18:06,429 but it's eh... 1349 01:18:07,093 --> 01:18:10,532 certainly not as exhausting or wearing as I thought it would be 1350 01:18:10,533 --> 01:18:11,901 I mean, y'know... 1351 01:18:11,902 --> 01:18:14,314 coming up myself is a challenge of some sort 1352 01:18:14,315 --> 01:18:17,370 we're going to have to split two sausages into three now 1353 01:18:17,371 --> 01:18:22,553 Well once Caroline Tetford said she loved me 1354 01:18:24,882 --> 01:18:28,708 and I'm going to marry her when I grow up 1355 01:18:28,998 --> 01:18:33,082 I hate her, she's always getting bad tempered and cross with me 1356 01:18:33,083 --> 01:18:33,988 - Does she? - Yeah 1357 01:18:33,989 --> 01:18:37,044 She says "Neil Hughes, move your desk forward" 1358 01:18:37,045 --> 01:18:40,742 and when I put it back she says "Neil Hughes put your chair forward" 1359 01:18:40,743 --> 01:18:44,347 and she just gets into a girly mood with me like that 1360 01:18:44,348 --> 01:18:48,942 Tell me about the period in your life when you went to university and what happened 1361 01:18:48,943 --> 01:18:50,211 It was a very short period 1362 01:18:50,212 --> 01:18:51,151 I was only at university... 1363 01:18:51,152 --> 01:18:55,639 well I was only taking university seriously for a matter of two or three months 1364 01:18:57,395 --> 01:19:01,509 maybe I went to the wrong university or maybe university life didn't suit me 1365 01:19:01,890 --> 01:19:02,930 either way 1366 01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,619 I felt a very great need to get out of the system 1367 01:19:08,223 --> 01:19:11,948 Well this is my final year so I'm not in college that much 1368 01:19:11,949 --> 01:19:13,319 I don't have to be 1369 01:19:13,515 --> 01:19:16,427 so what I'm expected to do is to be ... 1370 01:19:16,695 --> 01:19:19,822 laying out revision timetables at home and.. 1371 01:19:19,823 --> 01:19:21,252 working like a slave 1372 01:19:21,503 --> 01:19:24,197 which I'm not at the moment, but I will be soon 1373 01:19:24,198 --> 01:19:26,688 I did make an application to Oxford 1374 01:19:26,689 --> 01:19:28,006 but I didn't get in 1375 01:19:28,007 --> 01:19:28,991 and eh 1376 01:19:28,992 --> 01:19:31,661 well I think that's in the past now and that's... 1377 01:19:31,662 --> 01:19:34,802 I don't know whether I would've been any happier at Oxford 1378 01:19:36,535 --> 01:19:38,749 it always had been a dream to get into Oxford 1379 01:19:38,750 --> 01:19:40,875 I think being as people had encouraged me 1380 01:19:40,876 --> 01:19:44,216 because I knew famous people having been to Oxford 1381 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,901 I'd read memoirs written by famous people 1382 01:19:47,902 --> 01:19:52,535 things such as Brideshead's Revisited which was a great favourite 1383 01:19:54,147 --> 01:19:56,265 but these I suppose are 1384 01:19:56,743 --> 01:20:01,041 well they were dreams which I had while I was at school and 1385 01:20:01,789 --> 01:20:04,787 I have to just get over the fact that I didn't get into Oxford 1386 01:20:05,123 --> 01:20:07,459 probably because I didn't approach the thing in the right way 1387 01:20:09,082 --> 01:20:10,492 Are you bitter about it? 1388 01:20:10,493 --> 01:20:12,933 I was very bitter at the time 1389 01:20:12,934 --> 01:20:16,238 maybe I still am but I try to get over it 1390 01:20:16,635 --> 01:20:20,955 I think once I can get myself going I can work solid, yeah 1391 01:20:22,005 --> 01:20:23,519 but it's the motive 1392 01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,912 which is very hard to acquire when you're in the flat most of the time 1393 01:20:28,637 --> 01:20:32,068 it's hard to sort of look ahead to next June and think of those exams 1394 01:20:32,955 --> 01:20:36,256 but I dare say I'll do it, get the average type degree and... 1395 01:20:36,257 --> 01:20:37,929 I'm not worried 1396 01:20:38,619 --> 01:20:43,023 Is it a problem to you motivating yourself generally? 1397 01:20:43,024 --> 01:20:44,697 Yeah it can be 1398 01:20:44,698 --> 01:20:48,052 I can look back on the day and think "how I wasted that" 1399 01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:50,742 although I must've enjoyed it at the time 1400 01:20:50,743 --> 01:20:54,055 What sort of influence did your parents have on you? 1401 01:20:54,649 --> 01:20:57,689 Well they made me believe in god from the start 1402 01:20:57,690 --> 01:21:00,279 which I certainly wouldn't 1403 01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,306 or I don't know even now whether I believe in god or not 1404 01:21:03,307 --> 01:21:05,877 I've thought an awful lot about it actually and 1405 01:21:05,878 --> 01:21:07,436 I still don't know 1406 01:21:07,725 --> 01:21:09,497 but still this was the absolutely certain one 1407 01:21:09,498 --> 01:21:12,510 if one was to survive in the world one had to believe in god 1408 01:21:12,511 --> 01:21:14,433 this was something which was taught to me 1409 01:21:16,119 --> 01:21:19,153 always think of other people first before yourself 1410 01:21:19,154 --> 01:21:22,313 to a ridiculous neurotic degree 1411 01:21:22,314 --> 01:21:24,397 which I think affected me 1412 01:21:26,557 --> 01:21:27,967 What do you mean by that? 1413 01:21:28,299 --> 01:21:31,722 Well this I suppose is basic christianity 1414 01:21:32,385 --> 01:21:33,569 it's sort of... 1415 01:21:34,859 --> 01:21:38,126 if somebody slaps you on one cheek let them do it on the other 1416 01:21:38,127 --> 01:21:40,824 almost literally taken 1417 01:21:41,786 --> 01:21:45,210 which gave me a few shocks when I tried to put it into practise 1418 01:21:46,416 --> 01:21:48,282 - In what way? - I don't think to be honest 1419 01:21:48,283 --> 01:21:50,366 to go back to that question I don't think 1420 01:21:50,367 --> 01:21:54,304 I was really taught any sort of policy of living at all by my parents 1421 01:21:54,305 --> 01:21:56,208 this was probably their biggest mistake 1422 01:21:56,209 --> 01:21:58,296 that I was just left to fend for myself 1423 01:21:58,297 --> 01:22:01,223 in a world which they seemed completely oblivious of 1424 01:22:01,530 --> 01:22:06,115 and I found even when I tried to discuss problems which were facing me in school 1425 01:22:06,662 --> 01:22:09,957 my parents didn't seem to be aware of the nature of the problem 1426 01:22:09,958 --> 01:22:11,708 Were they ambitious for you? 1427 01:22:13,793 --> 01:22:16,714 Yeah but along set lines which they had planned 1428 01:22:16,715 --> 01:22:19,208 I think they have often said to me that they 1429 01:22:19,209 --> 01:22:22,926 they had seen me even from when I was very young in a certain type of career 1430 01:22:22,927 --> 01:22:28,834 and possibly they'd never even thought that anything else was vaguely possible 1431 01:22:29,277 --> 01:22:31,948 they probably imagined I would be 1432 01:22:31,949 --> 01:22:34,817 maybe a university lecturer or 1433 01:22:35,996 --> 01:22:38,716 a bank manager or something like this 1434 01:22:39,613 --> 01:22:41,967 some kind of indoor work 1435 01:22:41,968 --> 01:22:46,120 which involved writing and reading and this sort of thing 1436 01:22:46,414 --> 01:22:49,262 because they didn't take account of the other side of my personality 1437 01:22:50,698 --> 01:22:52,058 but 1438 01:22:56,954 --> 01:23:01,715 I wonder how many parents really think of their children as individual human beings 1439 01:23:03,340 --> 01:23:06,526 What are your feelings about them now? Your parents 1440 01:23:08,028 --> 01:23:10,504 I'm glad they're there because if I ever become homeless again 1441 01:23:10,505 --> 01:23:12,174 I will be able to go back and live with them 1442 01:23:12,175 --> 01:23:13,962 they wouldn't object to this 1443 01:23:16,558 --> 01:23:20,094 I'm capable of getting on with my parents perfectly well 1444 01:23:20,095 --> 01:23:28,446 If they are willing to let me live as another adult in their house 1445 01:23:28,447 --> 01:23:31,492 and appreciate that I'm living my own way of life 1446 01:23:31,493 --> 01:23:35,070 and that I am living there because I can't think of anything else to do with myself 1447 01:23:38,191 --> 01:23:40,933 What do they think of what you're doing now? 1448 01:23:42,462 --> 01:23:45,800 They accept it, I think now they do accept that I'm the person I am 1449 01:23:47,531 --> 01:23:55,396 they see this as simply my attempting to add more experience to my life 1450 01:23:55,397 --> 01:23:58,208 which satisfies me 1451 01:23:58,209 --> 01:23:59,886 Are they worried about you? 1452 01:24:01,213 --> 01:24:02,936 Probably yes 1453 01:24:06,770 --> 01:24:11,604 but no more worried now than they were when I first left for university 1454 01:24:11,605 --> 01:24:14,271 that was probably the time at which they were most worried 1455 01:24:15,731 --> 01:24:19,754 and we have in fact managed to discuss a lot of personal things 1456 01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:23,972 which I felt at one time I'd never be able to discuss 1457 01:24:25,032 --> 01:24:26,869 and therefore, as I say 1458 01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:30,124 it is possible for me to live for a few weeks even a month or so at home 1459 01:24:30,693 --> 01:24:34,372 without there being to much friction 1460 01:24:35,838 --> 01:24:39,428 So are you under pressure to get a job 1461 01:24:39,429 --> 01:24:42,256 to think of what you're going to do when you leave in June 1462 01:24:42,766 --> 01:24:45,972 Yeah I suspect I am from my parents, they keep dropping hints 1463 01:24:46,370 --> 01:24:48,802 which is only fair I can understand their feelings 1464 01:24:49,041 --> 01:24:50,516 obviously I've got to get a job 1465 01:24:50,517 --> 01:24:53,083 I don't want to laze around on the dole for months and months 1466 01:24:53,084 --> 01:24:54,682 you'd go mad 1467 01:24:55,806 --> 01:24:59,694 I just can't see what I'll be doing in nine, ten months time though 1468 01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,112 Does that depress you or does that excite you? 1469 01:25:03,415 --> 01:25:05,558 No it certainly doesn't depress me 1470 01:25:06,667 --> 01:25:08,921 perhaps it does excite me in a way yes 1471 01:25:09,973 --> 01:25:13,314 something will turn up, something of that nature y'know 1472 01:25:13,747 --> 01:25:17,988 but obviously you've got to think realistically about doing something 1473 01:25:19,578 --> 01:25:22,790 I mean I might be living in cloud cuckoo land y'know 1474 01:25:24,297 --> 01:25:27,624 my mum and dad might say "no son" 1475 01:25:27,625 --> 01:25:29,534 "you don't get a job you like" 1476 01:25:30,420 --> 01:25:31,780 I'd like to think I could 1477 01:25:31,781 --> 01:25:34,636 Well, we pretend we've got swords 1478 01:25:35,152 --> 01:25:37,872 we make the noises of the swords fighting 1479 01:25:37,873 --> 01:25:40,165 and when somebody stabs us we go "Arrrrrgghhh!" 1480 01:25:40,866 --> 01:25:44,847 What goes through your mind when you saw those two films 1481 01:25:44,848 --> 01:25:48,472 when you were at seven, bright and perky? 1482 01:25:48,876 --> 01:25:53,164 I find it hard to believe that I was ever like that but there's the evidence 1483 01:25:53,165 --> 01:25:54,812 I wonder why I was like that 1484 01:25:54,813 --> 01:25:58,330 I wonder what it was inside me that made me like that 1485 01:26:00,256 --> 01:26:03,759 and I can see even at fourteen and I was beginning to get more subdued 1486 01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,194 and I was putting a lot more thought into what I was saying 1487 01:26:06,195 --> 01:26:08,473 too a ridiculous degree 1488 01:26:11,036 --> 01:26:14,583 and probably when I was seven I just..... I don't know 1489 01:26:14,584 --> 01:26:18,400 I lived in a wonderful world where everything was sensation dumb 1490 01:26:18,401 --> 01:26:20,772 I could be happy like this I could be miserable the next minute 1491 01:26:20,773 --> 01:26:22,618 and I didn't have to plan for the future 1492 01:26:22,619 --> 01:26:25,790 I didn't have to worry about having friends and all this money 1493 01:26:25,791 --> 01:26:28,440 because everything was so mapped out for me 1494 01:26:29,864 --> 01:26:34,016 I don't know what sort of stumbling blocks should be put in a child's way 1495 01:26:34,541 --> 01:26:38,087 to get him used to living in the outside world 1496 01:26:39,046 --> 01:26:42,738 because I think maybe this is something that was wrong in my upbringing 1497 01:26:42,739 --> 01:26:47,074 I didn't have enough obstacles to get over, to toughen myself up against 1498 01:26:48,188 --> 01:26:50,633 I was unprepared for things as they were 1499 01:26:50,634 --> 01:26:54,974 but looking back now I couldn't think of what might have been done 1500 01:26:54,975 --> 01:26:59,032 and I certainly wouldn't start writing educational theory about this 1501 01:26:59,033 --> 01:27:00,850 because I know how personal a thing it is 1502 01:27:00,851 --> 01:27:03,486 and it probably wouldn't work in anybody else's case 1503 01:27:04,712 --> 01:27:06,264 Would you like to be seven again? 1504 01:27:07,664 --> 01:27:10,574 No because I'd know that I had to be twenty-one again 1505 01:27:10,575 --> 01:27:12,638 I moved up to a comprehensive school 1506 01:27:13,281 --> 01:27:15,263 I found it much bigger of course 1507 01:27:15,264 --> 01:27:17,667 I found it hard to settle into at first 1508 01:27:17,668 --> 01:27:21,348 but now I've been here a few years I know my way around 1509 01:27:21,349 --> 01:27:24,002 I think it's a very good idea to have competition 1510 01:27:24,003 --> 01:27:27,113 otherwise you might start to relax and not try hard enough 1511 01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:33,638 Yes at that age I was very conscious of having to struggle 1512 01:27:33,639 --> 01:27:36,056 because I suppose of what parents and teachers were saying 1513 01:27:36,057 --> 01:27:36,984 they were saying 1514 01:27:36,985 --> 01:27:41,246 they said "you've got a brain you must put all your effort into school work" 1515 01:27:44,089 --> 01:27:45,824 well what else could they have said? 1516 01:27:45,825 --> 01:27:48,466 I would've probably been just as angry, looking back 1517 01:27:48,467 --> 01:27:52,192 if they'd never encouraged my intellectual efforts at all 1518 01:27:52,193 --> 01:27:55,494 When I get married I don't want to have any children 1519 01:27:56,324 --> 01:27:57,396 because 1520 01:27:57,397 --> 01:28:00,174 they are always doing naughty things 1521 01:28:00,175 --> 01:28:03,074 and making the whole house untidy 1522 01:28:03,075 --> 01:28:05,935 Do you have any great ambition, any dream? 1523 01:28:09,584 --> 01:28:11,010 I suppose I... 1524 01:28:11,304 --> 01:28:12,612 yes well... 1525 01:28:12,613 --> 01:28:17,212 I would like to be someone in a position of importance and I've always thought this 1526 01:28:17,822 --> 01:28:21,642 but I don't think I'm the right sort of person to carry the responsibility for whatever it is 1527 01:28:21,643 --> 01:28:24,171 I've always thought well I'd love to be 1528 01:28:25,186 --> 01:28:28,052 possibly even love to be in politics 1529 01:28:28,496 --> 01:28:29,764 Something like this 1530 01:28:29,765 --> 01:28:30,866 but eh... 1531 01:28:31,461 --> 01:28:36,992 I suppose that I'd probably find just as tedious as all the other jobs I've done so... 1532 01:28:37,804 --> 01:28:40,348 What do you want out of life? 1533 01:28:45,227 --> 01:28:48,545 The satisfaction of knowing 1534 01:28:48,778 --> 01:28:52,807 that I've left some sort of imprint 1535 01:28:52,808 --> 01:28:55,609 rather than just lived out my life 1536 01:28:56,963 --> 01:28:58,755 I don't know.... 1537 01:28:59,387 --> 01:29:03,438 it's going to sound like an epitaph I've left in memory of some people y'know 1538 01:29:04,651 --> 01:29:10,023 not that this guy worked, made a fair bit of money, good house, died 1539 01:29:10,959 --> 01:29:13,455 I'd like to have done something but... 1540 01:29:13,456 --> 01:29:16,357 then again it must be a drop in the ocean I suppose 1541 01:29:16,358 --> 01:29:18,993 I mean who is going to remember me in a hundred years time? 1542 01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:22,588 So is it that important, how you live out your life? 1543 01:29:22,809 --> 01:29:25,946 but I would like to think I'm going to do something with it 1544 01:29:25,947 --> 01:29:27,987 something positive 1545 01:29:27,988 --> 01:29:30,292 Do you and Peter have the same values? 1546 01:29:30,293 --> 01:29:33,683 I think we both value happiness and stability 1547 01:29:33,684 --> 01:29:35,483 I think most people do 1548 01:29:38,429 --> 01:29:41,003 But you've kicked against the stability that's.. 1549 01:29:41,838 --> 01:29:45,935 I don't think I ever had any stability, to be quite honest 1550 01:29:46,837 --> 01:29:49,627 I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did 1551 01:29:49,628 --> 01:29:51,813 I don't think I've been kicking against anything 1552 01:29:51,814 --> 01:29:54,931 I think I've been kicking in mid-air the whole of my life 1553 01:30:09,516 --> 01:30:11,091 It's only one more 1554 01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:22,982 What do they think about each other? 1555 01:30:22,983 --> 01:30:24,821 and how would they act together? 1556 01:30:25,327 --> 01:30:29,587 to find out we invited them all to one big party and joined in 1557 01:30:29,963 --> 01:30:32,493 1558 01:30:32,494 --> 01:30:34,939 1559 01:30:34,940 --> 01:30:37,545 1560 01:30:37,546 --> 01:30:40,651 1561 01:30:41,325 --> 01:30:45,869 1562 01:30:45,870 --> 01:30:51,025 1563 01:30:53,235 --> 01:30:56,755 Yes but they were a bit too tough for my liking 1564 01:30:56,756 --> 01:31:00,965 so they hit me right in the back and I've still got a pain there 1565 01:31:00,966 --> 01:31:05,017 The posh ones, "Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!" 1566 01:31:05,593 --> 01:31:07,737 they're nuts 1567 01:31:07,738 --> 01:31:10,571 you just have to touch them 1568 01:31:10,572 --> 01:31:14,130 Well some of them were rather dirty 1569 01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:19,295 - What do you think about them? - I played with them quite naturally 1570 01:31:19,296 --> 01:31:21,745 I think they were rather nice really 1571 01:31:21,746 --> 01:31:24,149 What do you think about rich people? 1572 01:31:24,150 --> 01:31:27,963 Well... not much 1573 01:31:28,767 --> 01:31:29,730 Tell me about them 1574 01:31:29,731 --> 01:31:33,903 Well they think they can do everything without you doing it as well 1575 01:31:33,904 --> 01:31:41,933 and they think just because they're rich they have to have people to do all their work 1576 01:31:41,934 --> 01:31:46,631 What would you do if you had lots of money, about two pounds? 1577 01:31:46,632 --> 01:31:49,668 Me? I would help the poor 1578 01:31:49,669 --> 01:31:50,863 What for? 1579 01:31:50,864 --> 01:31:55,489 The poor, if you don't help them they die soon wouldn't they 1580 01:31:55,490 --> 01:32:01,363 and every time we have a harvest festival we send food to them 1581 01:32:01,364 --> 01:32:02,977 and once these two.....no 1582 01:32:04,103 --> 01:32:08,151 Susan and Janet Simpson went round giving it out with Mr Floyd 1583 01:32:08,525 --> 01:32:11,022 - I don't think much of the accents - Neither do I 1584 01:32:11,023 --> 01:32:12,699 Neither do I 1585 01:32:12,870 --> 01:32:15,422 it won't prevent me liking them 1586 01:32:15,423 --> 01:32:16,596 Don't you ever think to yourself - 1587 01:32:16,597 --> 01:32:18,702 Jump out of that suit, come to the Eastend 1588 01:32:18,703 --> 01:32:21,463 throw the books in the corner and do what you have to do 1589 01:32:21,464 --> 01:32:24,001 - I'd certainly throw the books in the corner - Do you understand what I'm trying to say? 1590 01:32:24,002 --> 01:32:24,651 Yeah 1591 01:32:24,652 --> 01:32:27,863 - What are you going to do in life? - I've really no idea 1592 01:32:28,063 --> 01:32:33,232 The idea of just living somewhere and working for a living is just horrifying really 1593 01:32:33,233 --> 01:32:35,807 I mean, being a student is very easy 1594 01:32:35,808 --> 01:32:38,693 I just postponed the decision by going to university 1595 01:32:38,694 --> 01:32:41,556 I wouldn't say being a student's easy, that's why I left school 1596 01:32:41,996 --> 01:32:44,296 - It was too hard - Really 1597 01:32:44,297 --> 01:32:46,829 Who is to say what a seven year old child is? 1598 01:32:47,971 --> 01:32:52,025 I don't think there's anyway you can do it so a seven year old child could seem to be one thing 1599 01:32:52,026 --> 01:32:57,447 and you could always argue that the end product was produced by what he actually was 1600 01:32:57,448 --> 01:32:59,523 rather than what he seemed to be 1601 01:32:59,524 --> 01:33:02,779 - you'd normally use the total.... - Not a bookmaker but a.... 1602 01:33:02,780 --> 01:33:05,331 - I'm always frightened they'd clear off - What? 1603 01:33:05,332 --> 01:33:07,985 I'm always frightened they'd clear off if they had a bad afternoon 1604 01:33:07,986 --> 01:33:10,113 No they're not like that, they can always get hold of money 1605 01:33:10,114 --> 01:33:12,949 What fears do you have for the future? 1606 01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:15,517 Well certainly the idea of, as I was saying before 1607 01:33:15,518 --> 01:33:19,441 getting into a job and simply getting stuck in it and that's it 1608 01:33:19,442 --> 01:33:22,195 without knowing why you're doing it 1609 01:33:22,451 --> 01:33:27,517 but I would think now that this is the time where I would think about something like that 1610 01:33:27,518 --> 01:33:29,077 and make sure it doesn't happen 1611 01:33:29,078 --> 01:33:32,127 I really don't see how one's life can be a failure 1612 01:33:32,128 --> 01:33:33,227 in that.... 1613 01:33:33,228 --> 01:33:36,961 if I became a journalist and got sacked at thirty 1614 01:33:36,962 --> 01:33:40,289 probably because I had grown out of it or I had changed so I was no longer suitable 1615 01:33:40,290 --> 01:33:46,080 therefore I'd find something else which I enjoyed 1616 01:33:46,081 --> 01:33:47,763 and which my talents were suited to 1617 01:33:47,764 --> 01:33:51,573 No I have never suffered at all 1618 01:33:52,297 --> 01:33:58,439 never been driven to despair or tears or.... 1619 01:34:01,113 --> 01:34:03,053 I don't know, have any of the others? 1620 01:34:03,054 --> 01:34:06,254 My strength is being able to keep going really 1621 01:34:06,255 --> 01:34:10,517 and my weakness is not being able to take any positive course of action 1622 01:34:10,908 --> 01:34:15,516 I suppose I tend to behave in the fashion of the people that I'm with 1623 01:34:16,253 --> 01:34:19,667 in some circumstances I think that can be quite a weakness sometimes 1624 01:34:19,668 --> 01:34:21,775 sometimes wish I didn't 1625 01:34:22,423 --> 01:34:27,974 occasionally look at myself and think "christ you're a bloody fool, what are you doing now?" 1626 01:34:29,278 --> 01:34:31,299 and that sometimes disturbs me 1627 01:34:31,300 --> 01:34:33,579 We had a teacher at school 1628 01:34:33,580 --> 01:34:37,059 that his favourite ploy was.... 1629 01:34:37,060 --> 01:34:41,106 "All you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies 1630 01:34:41,107 --> 01:34:44,873 and push a pram down the road with a cigarette hanging out the side of your mouth" 1631 01:34:46,220 --> 01:34:50,005 god if there was ever a sentence I'd resent it would be that one - yeah 1632 01:34:50,006 --> 01:34:53,090 There's only one ambition really I want a baby son 1633 01:34:53,091 --> 01:34:55,970 if I see my baby son that'll be my ambition fulfilled 1634 01:34:55,971 --> 01:34:58,501 no one knows that, only you now! 1635 01:34:58,502 --> 01:35:02,589 Well to me it is a dream to be totally happy 1636 01:35:02,590 --> 01:35:05,527 I mean, I don't think you can expect that but... 1637 01:35:07,995 --> 01:35:13,203 What happens if you don't make that? If you don't ever find it? How will you cope? 1638 01:35:13,204 --> 01:35:16,405 I don't know, it would be hard to say 1639 01:35:17,155 --> 01:35:21,343 the human minds very strong and it can be very weak 1640 01:35:21,745 --> 01:35:25,369 and so you could crack up from it and you could just 1641 01:35:25,705 --> 01:35:30,937 live your life out from day to day and you could get over it I think 1642 01:35:30,938 --> 01:35:34,907 well not get over it but you'd sort of cope with it I think 1643 01:35:35,338 --> 01:35:37,961 but what I'd do I just don't know 1644 01:35:40,731 --> 01:35:44,171 I mean I want to be happy and my dreams are all for happiness 1645 01:35:45,666 --> 01:35:47,855 but basically that's what I want out of life 1646 01:35:47,856 --> 01:35:52,303 I always leave something inside me, I always leave a bit behind 1647 01:35:52,765 --> 01:35:56,163 I always hold back a bit with everything I do 1648 01:35:59,549 --> 01:36:03,097 just to sort of....something to fall back on 1649 01:36:03,098 --> 01:36:07,260 I've always got something else to look on if anything goes wrong anywhere 1650 01:36:08,535 --> 01:36:11,920 What is that something you hold back? 1651 01:36:11,921 --> 01:36:14,319 I think it's a part of my heart 1652 01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:16,843 What do you want most out of life? 1653 01:36:18,015 --> 01:36:21,647 To be happy and get on with life 1654 01:36:21,648 --> 01:36:26,170 you don't want to just sit back and let it always pass 1655 01:36:27,729 --> 01:36:29,690 you could be run over by a bus tomorrow 1656 01:36:29,691 --> 01:36:31,710 so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it 1657 01:36:31,711 --> 01:36:35,219 Simply to be able to wake up in the morning and feel that 1658 01:36:35,681 --> 01:36:38,109 this day was going to be worthwhile 1659 01:36:40,470 --> 01:36:43,467 which is what I don't feel at the moment 1660 01:36:56,245 --> 01:36:59,337 At the end of their very special day in London 1661 01:36:59,338 --> 01:37:02,059 after their trip to the zoo and the party 1662 01:37:02,597 --> 01:37:05,645 we took our children to an adventure playground 1663 01:37:05,646 --> 01:37:07,914 where they could do just what they liked 1664 01:37:10,250 --> 01:37:14,315 those from a children's home set about building a house 1665 01:37:14,316 --> 01:37:18,659 The houses in Australia, the average sort of living there will do me fine 1666 01:37:18,660 --> 01:37:19,956 I mean it's terrific 1667 01:37:19,957 --> 01:37:23,124 I often say I'm saving to settle down with Yvonne 1668 01:37:24,027 --> 01:37:27,665 and then I think to myself "nah I might buy a car instead" 1669 01:37:34,643 --> 01:37:36,267 There's Nicholas 1670 01:37:36,268 --> 01:37:39,367 You have to run fast to stay where you are 1671 01:37:39,368 --> 01:37:42,667 to go forward you have to run very fast indeed, or whatever the quote is 1672 01:37:44,219 --> 01:37:48,187 so I'll probably feel I'm actually achieving nothing 1673 01:37:49,519 --> 01:37:51,097 and Tony 1674 01:37:54,015 --> 01:37:57,417 I don't want to change because if I change 1675 01:37:57,418 --> 01:38:00,698 it proves the other Tony Walker was all fake 1676 01:38:02,549 --> 01:38:03,610 Andrew 1677 01:38:04,169 --> 01:38:09,068 After I've qualified as a Solicitor I'll have to rethink 1678 01:38:09,911 --> 01:38:12,343 I don't know at all what will happen after that 1679 01:38:12,344 --> 01:38:13,733 and Bruce 1680 01:38:16,879 --> 01:38:20,737 It all springs from..... 1681 01:38:21,207 --> 01:38:24,295 loving god and christ I suppose 1682 01:38:24,953 --> 01:38:29,305 you try and do that as best as possible and that leads your actions in life 1683 01:38:31,397 --> 01:38:32,762 John 1684 01:38:32,785 --> 01:38:37,226 I'd quite like to go into politics but that's easier said than done 1685 01:38:39,867 --> 01:38:41,033 Susie 1686 01:38:42,020 --> 01:38:44,909 When you're a child you always think how nice it would be to be grown up 1687 01:38:44,910 --> 01:38:47,035 and independent and things 1688 01:38:47,036 --> 01:38:50,536 but there are times when I wish I was three again 1689 01:38:50,537 --> 01:38:53,139 Jackie and her friends 1690 01:38:58,721 --> 01:39:01,387 give me a child until he is seven 1691 01:39:01,438 --> 01:39:04,131 and I will give you the man 1692 01:39:12,496 --> 01:39:16,178 this has been a glimpse of Britain's future