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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,552 --> 00:00:03,175 [soft dramatic music] 2 00:00:03,175 --> 00:00:07,352 When I got that call that Doc's house was on fire, 3 00:00:07,352 --> 00:00:10,734 I mean, it was like you was dreaming. 4 00:00:10,734 --> 00:00:12,046 ♪ ♪ 5 00:00:12,046 --> 00:00:15,739 But I watched all of it. 6 00:00:15,739 --> 00:00:18,052 He didn't have a chance. 7 00:00:18,052 --> 00:00:22,022 My world ripped away from me. 8 00:00:22,125 --> 00:00:24,955 My heart was just broken. 9 00:00:24,955 --> 00:00:28,062 And then they said somebody killed Doc. 10 00:00:28,062 --> 00:00:31,376 It just didn't make no sense. 11 00:00:31,376 --> 00:00:34,344 [dramatic music] 12 00:00:34,344 --> 00:00:40,005 ♪ ♪ 13 00:00:40,005 --> 00:00:42,939 [soft banjo music] 14 00:00:42,939 --> 00:00:47,081 ♪ ♪ 15 00:00:47,081 --> 00:00:48,945 That's beautiful. 16 00:00:49,049 --> 00:00:52,086 This is the Appalachian Riviera. 17 00:00:52,086 --> 00:00:55,193 You know, it's like Italy or Greece in a way, 18 00:00:55,193 --> 00:00:57,505 just built into the hillside. 19 00:00:57,505 --> 00:01:00,543 We are in McDowell County, West Virginia. 20 00:01:00,543 --> 00:01:02,786 It's the heart of coal mining country, 21 00:01:02,786 --> 00:01:04,478 and there was a period in time 22 00:01:04,478 --> 00:01:07,170 where this was a really thriving community. 23 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:09,483 Coal was king, and they had all these 24 00:01:09,586 --> 00:01:13,349 historic downtown areas that were bustling. 25 00:01:13,452 --> 00:01:16,317 Iaeger, the town we're going to in McDowell County, 26 00:01:16,317 --> 00:01:22,116 in 2019, was clocked in with a population of 264, 27 00:01:22,116 --> 00:01:24,256 so this is hands-down 28 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,982 the smallest town we've been to. 29 00:01:25,982 --> 00:01:28,157 ♪ ♪ 30 00:01:28,157 --> 00:01:30,090 My family always has been raised here 31 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:32,402 in the town of Iaeger. 32 00:01:32,402 --> 00:01:35,129 A lot of the families grow up here and stay here, 33 00:01:35,129 --> 00:01:37,269 because whether you're blood-related or not, 34 00:01:37,269 --> 00:01:39,582 we consider everybody family. 35 00:01:39,582 --> 00:01:41,342 In McDowell County, no matter where you go, 36 00:01:41,446 --> 00:01:43,448 people will just come up and say, "Hey, how are you?" 37 00:01:43,448 --> 00:01:45,174 "Who are you?" if they don't know you, 38 00:01:45,174 --> 00:01:48,660 and pretty much become your friend right there. 39 00:01:48,763 --> 00:01:51,456 We work hard. We take care of each other. 40 00:01:51,456 --> 00:01:53,009 We are fighters. 41 00:01:53,009 --> 00:01:54,976 Just because they took the coal away 42 00:01:54,976 --> 00:01:56,978 does not mean we're done and we're finished. 43 00:01:56,978 --> 00:01:58,808 We are fighting hard to come back, 44 00:01:58,808 --> 00:02:00,706 uh, with even better things. 45 00:02:00,706 --> 00:02:03,537 ♪ ♪ 46 00:02:03,537 --> 00:02:06,988 Hot dog, it's like a time capsule. 47 00:02:06,988 --> 00:02:10,440 You can tell exactly when the industry 48 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,270 and the businesses and the livelihood 49 00:02:12,373 --> 00:02:14,410 of this town dried up. 50 00:02:14,410 --> 00:02:19,277 Montgomery Ward is a relic from my childhood, 51 00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:22,038 and it's just sitting here like they closed up shop one day 52 00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:23,833 and never came back. 53 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:27,008 [train horn blaring] 54 00:02:27,008 --> 00:02:30,736 In 2005, there was a tragic housefire 55 00:02:30,736 --> 00:02:32,497 here in Iaeger, West Virginia, 56 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,120 that would leave this community fighting 57 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,640 and looking for justice for years. 58 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:39,469 [tense music] 59 00:02:39,573 --> 00:02:42,541 [line trilling] 60 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,034 Dr. Whitley's clinic was right next door to his house. 61 00:02:53,034 --> 00:02:55,105 Clinic staff, they went rushing over there 62 00:02:55,105 --> 00:02:56,590 and saw that there was a fire. 63 00:03:04,529 --> 00:03:06,358 The firefighters went in the house 64 00:03:06,358 --> 00:03:08,533 and saw that there was a fire in the living room. 65 00:03:08,636 --> 00:03:09,361 [projector clicks] 66 00:03:09,465 --> 00:03:10,949 Couch was on fire, 67 00:03:10,949 --> 00:03:14,539 and there was burning debris coming from the ceiling, 68 00:03:14,539 --> 00:03:15,678 and there was a tremendous amount 69 00:03:15,678 --> 00:03:17,473 of smoke and heat. 70 00:03:17,576 --> 00:03:19,958 They ran up the steps and found Dr. Whitley 71 00:03:19,958 --> 00:03:22,512 there in the bedroom. 72 00:03:22,512 --> 00:03:24,825 ♪ ♪ 73 00:03:24,825 --> 00:03:27,931 When I got that call Tuesday morning 74 00:03:27,931 --> 00:03:29,761 that Doc's house was on fire, 75 00:03:29,761 --> 00:03:32,867 my first thought was, "Doc was smoking in bed 76 00:03:32,971 --> 00:03:35,456 and caught the bed on fire." 77 00:03:35,456 --> 00:03:38,183 I get over there, and the only thing I know 78 00:03:38,287 --> 00:03:41,048 is to get in the house and get Doc. 79 00:03:41,048 --> 00:03:45,294 Well, I got to the top of the landing 80 00:03:45,294 --> 00:03:47,330 and seen him laying there. 81 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:49,159 The fire chief tell me, 82 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:50,713 "There's nothing more you can do. 83 00:03:50,713 --> 00:03:51,955 Doc has passed." 84 00:03:51,955 --> 00:03:54,682 ♪ ♪ 85 00:03:54,682 --> 00:03:56,960 And when they brought him out... 86 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,239 gosh, it hurt so bad watchin'. 87 00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:00,688 [sniffles] 88 00:04:00,688 --> 00:04:04,865 ♪ ♪ 89 00:04:04,865 --> 00:04:09,007 When I first met Doc, I was probably four or five. 90 00:04:09,007 --> 00:04:12,252 He was my doctor all my life, 91 00:04:12,355 --> 00:04:15,289 and he had really inspired me to be a nurse. 92 00:04:15,289 --> 00:04:18,188 He seen the potential in me. 93 00:04:18,188 --> 00:04:21,675 I was Doctor's nurse for 25 years. 94 00:04:21,675 --> 00:04:24,988 To lose him was just like losing my daddy or my mom. 95 00:04:24,988 --> 00:04:27,370 ♪ ♪ 96 00:04:27,370 --> 00:04:29,821 Our two fire investigators in the fire marshal's office 97 00:04:29,924 --> 00:04:32,272 were Robbie Bailey, a very young fella, 98 00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:34,412 and Tony Domingo. 99 00:04:34,412 --> 00:04:37,138 They began their investigation that day. 100 00:04:37,138 --> 00:04:39,900 [camera shutter clicking] 101 00:04:40,003 --> 00:04:41,798 The bedroom scene was suspicious 102 00:04:41,902 --> 00:04:44,284 because Dr. Whitley could not walk 103 00:04:44,284 --> 00:04:45,699 very well on his own. 104 00:04:45,802 --> 00:04:48,080 He had had a fall several years earlier 105 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,358 and had to have help getting around 106 00:04:49,358 --> 00:04:51,256 through a motorized chair. 107 00:04:51,256 --> 00:04:53,293 They noticed that the motorized chair 108 00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:56,503 had been pushed several feet away from the bed. 109 00:04:56,606 --> 00:04:57,883 Dr. Whitley is on the floor. 110 00:04:57,883 --> 00:04:59,609 It appeared he had been attempting 111 00:04:59,609 --> 00:05:02,405 to crawl out of the bedroom to escape the fire. 112 00:05:02,405 --> 00:05:04,234 [camera shutter clicks] 113 00:05:04,338 --> 00:05:06,306 There had been an intense fire. 114 00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:08,894 The bed had been destroyed. 115 00:05:08,894 --> 00:05:11,207 There was a hole on the bedroom floor 116 00:05:11,207 --> 00:05:13,589 through which you can see the living room. 117 00:05:13,589 --> 00:05:15,176 The fire had burned completely through 118 00:05:15,176 --> 00:05:17,696 this hardwood bedroom floor. 119 00:05:17,696 --> 00:05:21,769 The fire investigators believe that someone had set the fire, 120 00:05:21,769 --> 00:05:24,496 pouring a flammable liquid or accelerant 121 00:05:24,496 --> 00:05:27,257 onto the bedroom floor. 122 00:05:27,257 --> 00:05:29,052 They collected multiple samples 123 00:05:29,052 --> 00:05:32,884 to send to the State Police Forensic Laboratory. 124 00:05:32,884 --> 00:05:36,646 You have a fire in the bedroom floor upstairs, 125 00:05:36,646 --> 00:05:38,027 and then downstairs in the living room, 126 00:05:38,027 --> 00:05:40,029 you have a couch on fire, 127 00:05:40,029 --> 00:05:41,168 so it did appear that there were 128 00:05:41,168 --> 00:05:43,584 two separate fires 129 00:05:43,584 --> 00:05:46,484 with separate causes of ignition. 130 00:05:46,484 --> 00:05:49,245 The law enforcement officers felt like those circumstances 131 00:05:49,245 --> 00:05:51,074 indicated there had been some foul play, 132 00:05:51,074 --> 00:05:52,938 so it wasn't just an accidental fire. 133 00:05:52,938 --> 00:05:55,838 Under our felony murder rule, 134 00:05:55,838 --> 00:05:59,048 if someone dies during a deliberately set fire, 135 00:05:59,048 --> 00:06:01,982 it's first-degree murder. 136 00:06:02,085 --> 00:06:03,673 Who would kill Doctor? 137 00:06:03,673 --> 00:06:06,435 I couldn't think of anybody that would want Doc dead. 138 00:06:09,576 --> 00:06:12,268 [soft dramatic music] 139 00:06:12,268 --> 00:06:13,994 ♪ ♪ 140 00:06:13,994 --> 00:06:16,617 Everybody in this county knew who Doc Whitley was. 141 00:06:16,617 --> 00:06:18,067 He took care of people 142 00:06:18,067 --> 00:06:21,104 whether they had any money to pay him or not. 143 00:06:21,104 --> 00:06:22,520 He took care of 'em. 144 00:06:22,623 --> 00:06:25,868 Doc Whitley was really, really something special. 145 00:06:25,868 --> 00:06:28,526 Doc and Kathy Lively, his nurse, 146 00:06:28,526 --> 00:06:31,011 took care of me and my family really well. 147 00:06:31,011 --> 00:06:34,359 When I got a phone call that Doc had passed 148 00:06:34,359 --> 00:06:36,844 and burnt up in a fire, 149 00:06:36,844 --> 00:06:39,882 I was just sho--shocked. 150 00:06:39,882 --> 00:06:43,126 ♪ ♪ 151 00:06:43,126 --> 00:06:45,957 We are going to meet Sid Bell, 152 00:06:45,957 --> 00:06:49,409 and he was the prosecutor for McDowell County 153 00:06:49,512 --> 00:06:52,135 in 2005 when the fire at Doc Whitley's house 154 00:06:52,135 --> 00:06:53,343 took place. 155 00:06:53,343 --> 00:06:55,553 This is new for me 156 00:06:55,553 --> 00:06:59,108 because we have reached out to prosecutors' offices 157 00:06:59,108 --> 00:07:01,386 in pretty much all of our cases, 158 00:07:01,386 --> 00:07:05,045 and they usually do not want to talk with us, 159 00:07:05,045 --> 00:07:06,736 but Sid agreed. 160 00:07:06,736 --> 00:07:09,601 ♪ ♪ 161 00:07:09,601 --> 00:07:10,913 Mr. Bell? - Yes. 162 00:07:11,016 --> 00:07:12,328 Hi. How are you? 163 00:07:12,328 --> 00:07:13,674 Thank you so much for your time. 164 00:07:13,674 --> 00:07:14,710 Okay. 165 00:07:15,573 --> 00:07:16,781 Obviously, in a small town, 166 00:07:16,781 --> 00:07:18,334 when something traumatic happens, 167 00:07:18,334 --> 00:07:20,647 everybody knows about it pretty quickly. 168 00:07:20,647 --> 00:07:24,340 In this case, the victim, Doc Whitley, 169 00:07:24,340 --> 00:07:26,618 was that someone that you knew? - Yes. 170 00:07:26,618 --> 00:07:29,483 So when you heard about his passing, 171 00:07:29,483 --> 00:07:31,658 how did that impact you personally? 172 00:07:31,658 --> 00:07:33,591 Well, I was shocked, of course, 173 00:07:33,591 --> 00:07:36,179 because they told me that they suspected arson. 174 00:07:36,283 --> 00:07:38,975 I don't know of anybody who ever physically threatened 175 00:07:38,975 --> 00:07:41,391 or did anything to harm Dr. Whitley, 176 00:07:41,391 --> 00:07:43,739 but he had political enemies in the county. 177 00:07:43,739 --> 00:07:45,637 He was involved in politics. 178 00:07:45,637 --> 00:07:47,501 He was in the House of Delegates. 179 00:07:47,501 --> 00:07:48,847 At one time, he was president 180 00:07:48,847 --> 00:07:51,367 of the McDowell County Commission. 181 00:07:51,367 --> 00:07:53,334 Doc had power in McDowell County, 182 00:07:53,334 --> 00:07:54,335 in the state. 183 00:07:54,335 --> 00:07:55,992 He ran it. 184 00:07:55,992 --> 00:07:58,167 If you wanted to run for any office 185 00:07:58,167 --> 00:08:00,894 in the state of West Virginia, you came to Doc. 186 00:08:00,894 --> 00:08:02,827 If you didn't get Doc's approval 187 00:08:02,827 --> 00:08:05,070 'fore you ran, you wouldn't win. 188 00:08:05,070 --> 00:08:06,140 ♪ ♪ 189 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:07,866 His idea of campaigning 190 00:08:07,866 --> 00:08:10,041 would be to first talk to his patients 191 00:08:10,041 --> 00:08:13,527 who came in and out by the dozens every day. 192 00:08:13,631 --> 00:08:15,633 They would say, "Doc, who do you want us to vote for? 193 00:08:15,633 --> 00:08:16,944 Whose signs should we put up?" 194 00:08:16,944 --> 00:08:20,707 That's the way he ran his political influence. 195 00:08:20,707 --> 00:08:22,191 When you're involved in politics, 196 00:08:22,191 --> 00:08:24,227 you're gonna make enemies. 197 00:08:24,227 --> 00:08:26,747 There's some would probably like to see him dead, 198 00:08:26,747 --> 00:08:30,440 but after his injury where he was in the wheelchair, 199 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,099 Doc had lost a lot of his political powers. 200 00:08:34,099 --> 00:08:36,999 He didn't go to a lot of meetings like he used to. 201 00:08:36,999 --> 00:08:38,276 ♪ ♪ 202 00:08:38,276 --> 00:08:40,209 They voted him out of being president 203 00:08:40,209 --> 00:08:42,556 of the committee. 204 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:44,834 It's kind of hard on Doc's ego. 205 00:08:44,834 --> 00:08:46,249 ♪ ♪ 206 00:08:46,249 --> 00:08:50,633 So were any of his political affiliations explored? 207 00:08:50,633 --> 00:08:53,429 Did anybody dig into that part of his background? 208 00:08:53,429 --> 00:08:55,189 I'm sure they considered that. 209 00:08:55,189 --> 00:08:57,329 There was a lot of talk about his enemies, 210 00:08:57,329 --> 00:08:59,815 but I think the fact that he had been out of the picture 211 00:08:59,815 --> 00:09:02,645 for almost a decade eliminated those 212 00:09:02,645 --> 00:09:04,026 from my standpoint. 213 00:09:04,026 --> 00:09:06,097 I thought it probably would have been someone 214 00:09:06,097 --> 00:09:08,582 who was mad at him over some personal matter, 215 00:09:08,582 --> 00:09:10,791 rather than a political matter. - Mm-hmm. 216 00:09:10,791 --> 00:09:13,207 Well, what was going on with his personal life? 217 00:09:13,207 --> 00:09:14,761 We found out in the course of the investigation 218 00:09:14,761 --> 00:09:17,211 that Dr. Whitley, in recent years, 219 00:09:17,211 --> 00:09:20,180 had been living at his Coon Branch Mountain home, 220 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:23,355 which was several miles away, with his wife, Sue Whitley. 221 00:09:23,355 --> 00:09:24,978 They didn't live in downtown Iaeger? 222 00:09:24,978 --> 00:09:27,394 No, no one was living in his two-story house 223 00:09:27,394 --> 00:09:28,533 down beside the clinic. 224 00:09:28,637 --> 00:09:29,948 It was just sitting there, vacant. 225 00:09:29,948 --> 00:09:32,054 So when Dr. Whitley was with his wife 226 00:09:32,054 --> 00:09:35,126 on Coon Branch Mountain, his son Jack came in 227 00:09:35,126 --> 00:09:37,887 and believed that she was not taking care of his dad. 228 00:09:37,887 --> 00:09:39,820 His bowels were impacted... - Oh, no. 229 00:09:39,820 --> 00:09:41,650 And his health was being neglected, 230 00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:45,619 so Dr. Whitley decided to move to Kathy Lively's house 231 00:09:45,619 --> 00:09:47,517 so he would be better taken care of. 232 00:09:47,517 --> 00:09:48,933 233 00:09:48,933 --> 00:09:51,349 Is Kathy someone that you are familiar with? 234 00:09:51,349 --> 00:09:53,075 I'd known Kathy a long time. 235 00:09:53,075 --> 00:09:55,871 We all liked Kathy, and she was really 236 00:09:55,871 --> 00:09:58,011 highly thought of as a nurse. 237 00:09:58,011 --> 00:10:01,497 And Doc Whitley trusted her enough to move 238 00:10:01,497 --> 00:10:04,949 from his wife's house into her home. 239 00:10:04,949 --> 00:10:07,814 Right, but when his sons came in to check on him 240 00:10:07,814 --> 00:10:09,747 at Kathy's house, they saw a bunch 241 00:10:09,747 --> 00:10:11,507 of possessions there that they thought 242 00:10:11,507 --> 00:10:13,336 were too expensive for the nurse 243 00:10:13,336 --> 00:10:15,304 to be able to afford. 244 00:10:15,304 --> 00:10:18,410 They got the idea that she was taking financial advantage 245 00:10:18,410 --> 00:10:20,896 of Dr. Whitley. - Oh. 246 00:10:20,896 --> 00:10:23,174 His children said I was taking advantage 247 00:10:23,174 --> 00:10:25,107 over his accounts. 248 00:10:25,107 --> 00:10:28,110 They said I--my home looked like a mansion. 249 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:30,975 I worked all my life for what I had, 250 00:10:30,975 --> 00:10:33,633 and my home was just like a regular, you know, 251 00:10:33,633 --> 00:10:35,151 anybody else's house. 252 00:10:35,151 --> 00:10:36,532 Nothing fancy. 253 00:10:36,532 --> 00:10:43,539 ♪ ♪ 254 00:10:43,539 --> 00:10:45,506 There were suspicions that Dr. Whitley 255 00:10:45,506 --> 00:10:48,337 was no longer running the clinic, 256 00:10:48,337 --> 00:10:50,235 and that Kathy, as an LPN, 257 00:10:50,235 --> 00:10:53,514 was issuing prescriptions for narcotics. 258 00:10:53,514 --> 00:10:55,620 Dr. Whitley decided to take the keys 259 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:57,829 to the clinic away from Ms. Lively, 260 00:10:57,829 --> 00:11:00,142 stop her access to bank accounts... 261 00:11:00,142 --> 00:11:01,453 - Wow. - Basically cut her off... 262 00:11:01,453 --> 00:11:02,834 Yeah. 263 00:11:02,834 --> 00:11:04,767 From any involvement with the medical clinic, 264 00:11:04,871 --> 00:11:07,563 and she became very angry about that. 265 00:11:07,563 --> 00:11:10,083 At his home, the evening before the fire, 266 00:11:10,083 --> 00:11:11,153 they argued, 267 00:11:11,153 --> 00:11:12,568 and Kathy Lively made the statement 268 00:11:12,568 --> 00:11:14,674 to Dr. Whitley, "I will kill you." 269 00:11:14,674 --> 00:11:17,435 ♪ ♪ 270 00:11:17,435 --> 00:11:19,299 The night before the fire, 271 00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:21,715 there was a patient that needed a prescription. 272 00:11:21,715 --> 00:11:23,752 Well, that was the wrong milligram 273 00:11:23,752 --> 00:11:27,341 that she was taking, so I took the patient's file 274 00:11:27,341 --> 00:11:32,553 over to Doc's house, and I was telling Doc, 275 00:11:32,657 --> 00:11:36,143 "You're not giving her the right milligram." 276 00:11:36,143 --> 00:11:39,629 And we started arguing, and I said, 277 00:11:39,629 --> 00:11:41,217 "One day, I'm gonna kill you." 278 00:11:41,217 --> 00:11:42,598 279 00:11:42,598 --> 00:11:44,704 We argued all the time. 280 00:11:44,704 --> 00:11:47,396 That was natural between us. 281 00:11:47,396 --> 00:11:49,812 I wasn't threaten' Doctor. 282 00:11:49,812 --> 00:11:52,539 People gets mad and just says, "I'm gonna kill you." 283 00:11:52,539 --> 00:11:53,609 I didn't know Doctor 284 00:11:53,609 --> 00:11:55,197 was gonna be dead the next morning. 285 00:11:57,337 --> 00:12:00,202 [soft guitar music] 286 00:12:00,202 --> 00:12:02,791 ♪ ♪ 287 00:12:02,791 --> 00:12:05,725 How quickly would you say investigators 288 00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:07,312 really focused on Kathy? 289 00:12:07,312 --> 00:12:09,729 I would say within the first few days. 290 00:12:09,729 --> 00:12:11,213 Mm-hmm. 291 00:12:11,213 --> 00:12:12,973 We find out that Kathy Lively 292 00:12:12,973 --> 00:12:15,665 said, "I will kill you" to Dr. Whitley. 293 00:12:15,665 --> 00:12:19,221 Everything was pointing towards Kathy. 294 00:12:19,221 --> 00:12:22,362 They brought me up to the sheriff's office. 295 00:12:22,362 --> 00:12:23,639 They questioned me. 296 00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:25,883 They thought I had killed Doctor 297 00:12:25,883 --> 00:12:28,748 because he fired me, and I'm like, 298 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:30,646 "Am I really hearing this?" 299 00:12:30,646 --> 00:12:34,132 I hadn't been fired. No truth in none of that. 300 00:12:34,132 --> 00:12:37,066 And then they said that I was writing prescriptions 301 00:12:37,066 --> 00:12:40,898 for controlled substance, but that was wrong. 302 00:12:40,898 --> 00:12:43,348 Doctor agreed to everything 303 00:12:43,348 --> 00:12:46,213 that I called in or wrote. 304 00:12:46,213 --> 00:12:49,423 He signed off on everything I did. 305 00:12:49,423 --> 00:12:54,290 Can you walk us through what their theory of the case was? 306 00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:57,707 Law enforcement's theory was that Jason Lively, 307 00:12:57,707 --> 00:13:00,469 Kathy Lively's son, had gone into the house 308 00:13:00,469 --> 00:13:03,437 to intimidate or terrorize or try to convince 309 00:13:03,437 --> 00:13:06,855 Doctor Whitley to change the decisions he had made 310 00:13:06,855 --> 00:13:09,719 to cut Kathy off completely from the operation 311 00:13:09,719 --> 00:13:12,170 of the clinic, and that Jason Lively 312 00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:14,379 had started that fire, and the fire 313 00:13:14,379 --> 00:13:16,519 caused Dr. Whitley's death. 314 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,142 [soft dramatic music] 315 00:13:18,142 --> 00:13:20,420 They accused me of writing prescriptions 316 00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:23,078 for me and Jason. 317 00:13:23,078 --> 00:13:25,839 They said, "Jason killed Doctor 318 00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:28,842 "because he was using prescription drugs 319 00:13:28,842 --> 00:13:30,499 or selling 'em." 320 00:13:30,499 --> 00:13:32,742 But if Doc was dead, 321 00:13:32,742 --> 00:13:36,298 nobody can write a prescription. 322 00:13:36,298 --> 00:13:39,059 It just didn't make no sense, none of it. 323 00:13:39,059 --> 00:13:40,647 324 00:13:40,647 --> 00:13:42,097 I started working for Doc 325 00:13:42,097 --> 00:13:45,928 when Jason was 15 months old. 326 00:13:46,032 --> 00:13:49,518 Jason was around Doc his whole life 327 00:13:49,518 --> 00:13:52,003 as a doctor, friend. 328 00:13:52,003 --> 00:13:54,764 Because Jason excelled in sports, 329 00:13:54,764 --> 00:13:57,319 in wrestling, weightlifting, 330 00:13:57,319 --> 00:14:01,012 Doc would tell him what to eat and give him advice, 331 00:14:01,012 --> 00:14:02,945 tell him when he was messing up. 332 00:14:02,945 --> 00:14:04,740 Doctor and Jason was close. 333 00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:07,156 ♪ ♪ 334 00:14:07,156 --> 00:14:09,814 Can you tell me a little bit about what Jason's reputation 335 00:14:09,814 --> 00:14:11,920 in this small town was? 336 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,094 He had a reputation for being very bold, 337 00:14:14,094 --> 00:14:16,614 and that he was involved with drug use. 338 00:14:16,614 --> 00:14:18,029 ♪ ♪ 339 00:14:18,029 --> 00:14:20,342 After his wrestling injury, 340 00:14:20,342 --> 00:14:22,689 he started taking pills. 341 00:14:22,689 --> 00:14:26,003 That was kind of hard on me to get him straightened out 342 00:14:26,003 --> 00:14:27,901 and back on track, 343 00:14:27,901 --> 00:14:30,904 but at the time of Doctor's death, 344 00:14:30,904 --> 00:14:33,251 he got a job in the coal mines, 345 00:14:33,251 --> 00:14:35,771 a steady job, and that was hard to come by 346 00:14:35,771 --> 00:14:37,393 in McDowell County at that time. 347 00:14:37,393 --> 00:14:44,676 348 00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:47,438 A local person, Brian Salyers, said that 349 00:14:47,438 --> 00:14:50,475 early the morning of the fire, he had picked up Jason Lively 350 00:14:50,475 --> 00:14:52,270 and his friend Tommy Owens, 351 00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:53,858 and they wanted to be dropped off 352 00:14:53,858 --> 00:14:56,205 at Dr. Whitley's house, 353 00:14:56,205 --> 00:14:58,380 and then they learned that Jason Lively 354 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:00,382 went up to Sue Whitley's home on the mountain 355 00:15:00,382 --> 00:15:02,384 the day of the fire to tell her 356 00:15:02,384 --> 00:15:04,420 that Dr. Whitley was found dead, 357 00:15:04,420 --> 00:15:08,355 and while there, he stole Dr. Whitley's laptop computer 358 00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:11,220 and went out trying to sell it that day. 359 00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:13,567 - Sounds really bad. - Yes. 360 00:15:13,567 --> 00:15:18,607 361 00:16:03,790 --> 00:16:10,348 ♪ ♪ 362 00:16:10,348 --> 00:16:12,937 Jason Lively and Tommy Owens wanted separate trials, 363 00:16:12,937 --> 00:16:14,283 which was granted. 364 00:16:14,283 --> 00:16:16,216 Jason Lively was tried first. 365 00:16:16,216 --> 00:16:21,359 366 00:16:21,359 --> 00:16:25,915 And so what is the narrative that you presented at trial? 367 00:16:25,915 --> 00:16:28,988 We decided to use evidence about the argument 368 00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:31,128 with Kathy the night before, 369 00:16:31,128 --> 00:16:33,785 and then Jason Lively stealing the computer. 370 00:16:33,785 --> 00:16:35,995 We also have what Brian Salyers told us 371 00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:38,169 about dropping him off at Dr. Whitley's house 372 00:16:38,169 --> 00:16:41,448 that morning, put together with the state fire marshal's 373 00:16:41,448 --> 00:16:44,520 opinion and report added up to felony murder. 374 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,145 And so when you started calling witnesses, 375 00:16:48,145 --> 00:16:50,871 Brian Salyers is someone that you called in? 376 00:16:50,871 --> 00:16:55,531 Yes, but Brian Salyers said that his statement was false, 377 00:16:55,531 --> 00:16:58,327 that he was coerced into making this statement 378 00:16:58,327 --> 00:17:01,054 about dropping Jason Lively and Tommy Owens off 379 00:17:01,054 --> 00:17:02,849 at Dr. Whitley's house that morning. 380 00:17:02,849 --> 00:17:04,644 He said that didn't happen. 381 00:17:04,644 --> 00:17:08,406 So one of your star witnesses gets on the stand 382 00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:10,960 and completely changes their story? 383 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,479 Yes. 384 00:17:12,479 --> 00:17:14,861 Does it make you, as the prosecutor, 385 00:17:14,861 --> 00:17:17,243 second-guess your case? 386 00:17:17,243 --> 00:17:19,693 I didn't have a reason to doubt this case 387 00:17:19,693 --> 00:17:22,351 because of everything else that supported 388 00:17:22,351 --> 00:17:24,767 what Brian Salyers had said initially. 389 00:17:24,767 --> 00:17:30,773 ♪ ♪ 390 00:17:30,773 --> 00:17:33,914 The law accused Jason of going up on the mountain 391 00:17:33,914 --> 00:17:35,813 the day Doc died and said 392 00:17:35,813 --> 00:17:38,988 Jason stole the laptop from the Coon Branch house, 393 00:17:38,988 --> 00:17:41,370 but Jason didn't steal it. 394 00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:42,509 ♪ ♪ 395 00:17:42,509 --> 00:17:44,339 While Doctor was staying at my house, 396 00:17:44,339 --> 00:17:47,928 he said to Jason, "You can take that laptop." 397 00:17:47,928 --> 00:17:51,794 Jason is not computer savvy, 398 00:17:51,794 --> 00:17:54,383 so he was just gonna sell it. 399 00:17:54,383 --> 00:17:57,559 I think maybe two or three days before Doc died, 400 00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:00,389 Jason asked somebody did they want to buy it. 401 00:18:00,389 --> 00:18:04,911 ♪ ♪ 402 00:18:05,014 --> 00:18:07,016 After you've laid out your case, 403 00:18:07,016 --> 00:18:08,846 what did Jason's defense lawyers 404 00:18:08,846 --> 00:18:10,537 present to the court? 405 00:18:10,537 --> 00:18:13,264 The defense argued you really couldn't rule out 406 00:18:13,264 --> 00:18:15,404 an accidental cause of the fire 407 00:18:15,404 --> 00:18:17,130 and that there's a good possibility 408 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:18,821 Whitley could have started the fire himself 409 00:18:18,821 --> 00:18:20,582 because he smoked in bed. 410 00:18:20,582 --> 00:18:22,377 The bed is heavily damaged in the fire, 411 00:18:22,377 --> 00:18:25,000 but the experts concluded that could not have been caused 412 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,415 from a cigarette. 413 00:18:26,415 --> 00:18:28,279 So the theory of it being an accident 414 00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:30,902 that Doc started himself was ruled out? 415 00:18:30,902 --> 00:18:32,594 Yes. 416 00:18:32,594 --> 00:18:36,011 And I relied on the state fire marshal's report 417 00:18:36,011 --> 00:18:38,289 from Robbie Bailey and Tony Domingo 418 00:18:38,289 --> 00:18:40,567 that this was a deliberately set fire. 419 00:18:40,567 --> 00:18:42,362 ♪ ♪ 420 00:18:42,362 --> 00:18:44,640 Robbie Bailey believed there were two separate fires 421 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,195 that had been set, which would not be consistent 422 00:18:47,195 --> 00:18:49,058 with an accidental fire. - Mm-hmm. 423 00:18:49,058 --> 00:18:51,785 In addition, the report indicated 424 00:18:51,785 --> 00:18:54,133 that the sample from the bedroom floor 425 00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:56,618 showed the presence of the chemical toluene, 426 00:18:56,618 --> 00:18:57,895 an accelerant. 427 00:18:57,895 --> 00:18:59,276 They said this was commonly found 428 00:18:59,276 --> 00:19:01,864 in charcoal lighter fluid or gasoline. 429 00:19:01,864 --> 00:19:03,142 ♪ ♪ 430 00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:06,352 - It's very damning. - It is. 431 00:19:06,352 --> 00:19:07,939 ♪ ♪ 432 00:19:07,939 --> 00:19:10,183 The night before the verdict, 433 00:19:10,183 --> 00:19:13,152 Jason said, "Mom, if I get convicted, 434 00:19:13,255 --> 00:19:15,568 don't cry." 435 00:19:15,568 --> 00:19:18,502 And when they come back with that verdict, 436 00:19:18,502 --> 00:19:23,162 guilty, Jason turned around and looked at me, 437 00:19:23,162 --> 00:19:26,510 and I had to stand there and do what he said. 438 00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:28,581 ♪ ♪ 439 00:19:28,581 --> 00:19:30,307 [sighs shakily] 440 00:19:30,307 --> 00:19:33,241 My heart just ripped out. 441 00:19:33,241 --> 00:19:35,657 Jason is convicted of first-degree murder, 442 00:19:35,657 --> 00:19:37,797 which means it's a life sentence. 443 00:19:37,797 --> 00:19:40,179 ♪ ♪ 444 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:43,665 So how did you feel securing that victory? 445 00:19:43,665 --> 00:19:46,392 I was very satisfied with it, very relieved. 446 00:19:46,392 --> 00:19:53,364 ♪ ♪ 447 00:19:53,364 --> 00:19:55,987 This time, Robbie Bailey and Tony Domingo 448 00:19:55,987 --> 00:19:57,817 gave contradictory testimony. 449 00:19:57,817 --> 00:19:58,990 Robbie Bailey testified 450 00:19:58,990 --> 00:19:59,991 that there were two separate fires... 451 00:19:59,991 --> 00:20:01,130 Okay. 452 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:02,339 One of them in the bedroom, 453 00:20:02,339 --> 00:20:03,961 and one in the living room. 454 00:20:03,961 --> 00:20:07,171 Mr. Domingo said, "I believe there was only one fire, 455 00:20:07,171 --> 00:20:10,105 "that the fire in the bedroom floor, 456 00:20:10,105 --> 00:20:12,763 "the ceiling, had caused burning debris 457 00:20:12,763 --> 00:20:15,835 to fall down and catch the couch on fire." 458 00:20:15,835 --> 00:20:18,113 Is that a major contradiction 459 00:20:18,113 --> 00:20:20,253 between your fire investigators? 460 00:20:20,253 --> 00:20:22,531 It was, because I was going under the belief 461 00:20:22,531 --> 00:20:25,120 that they both thought there were two separate fires. 462 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,640 So Tommy's trial takes place 463 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,334 after you've already secured a guilty verdict for Jason. 464 00:20:32,334 --> 00:20:35,234 What does the jury come back on with Tommy? 465 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:37,512 He was found not guilty. 466 00:20:37,512 --> 00:20:39,238 Did that plant a seed of doubt with you? 467 00:20:39,238 --> 00:20:41,378 It worried me a lot. 468 00:20:43,449 --> 00:20:46,141 [soft dramatic music] 469 00:20:46,141 --> 00:20:50,525 ♪ ♪ 470 00:21:18,242 --> 00:21:20,934 I met Jason at high school. 471 00:21:20,934 --> 00:21:26,008 Fast forward to 2005, and Jason had been arrested 472 00:21:26,008 --> 00:21:28,217 for Doc's murder. 473 00:21:28,217 --> 00:21:30,461 What I knew was Jason was convicted, 474 00:21:30,461 --> 00:21:32,256 and Tommy wasn't. 475 00:21:32,256 --> 00:21:34,016 I never knew why, you know, 476 00:21:34,016 --> 00:21:35,915 one was guilty and one wasn't. 477 00:21:35,915 --> 00:21:38,504 I just felt for Jason. 478 00:21:38,504 --> 00:21:41,300 You know, I'm thinking, "How is he doing?" 479 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,060 And I just wrote him. 480 00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:44,855 He wrote right back. 481 00:21:44,855 --> 00:21:46,615 He seemed so sweet and nice. 482 00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:49,411 He started calling, and then he started 483 00:21:49,411 --> 00:21:51,551 sending me transcripts of his trial, 484 00:21:51,655 --> 00:21:54,934 and I'm seeing this evidence in Jason's favor, 485 00:21:54,934 --> 00:21:55,969 and I knew instantly then 486 00:21:55,969 --> 00:21:57,316 there was no way Jason did that. 487 00:21:57,316 --> 00:21:58,317 There was no way. 488 00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:03,287 ♪ ♪ 489 00:22:03,287 --> 00:22:06,428 Jason is serving out his prison sentence. 490 00:22:06,428 --> 00:22:08,465 Do you just put this case behind you at this point 491 00:22:08,465 --> 00:22:10,777 and move on? - Yes. 492 00:22:10,777 --> 00:22:13,504 But the last thing that a good prosecutor 493 00:22:13,504 --> 00:22:17,715 should want is to have someone wrongfully convicted. 494 00:22:17,715 --> 00:22:20,235 I had heard of the Todd Willingham case 495 00:22:20,235 --> 00:22:22,099 in Texas. 496 00:22:22,099 --> 00:22:24,101 He was convicted of setting a fire 497 00:22:24,101 --> 00:22:26,137 that caused the death of his young children. 498 00:22:26,137 --> 00:22:28,485 He said that he was innocent all along, 499 00:22:28,485 --> 00:22:30,970 and a group of nationally recognized 500 00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:33,869 fire investigation experts all concluded 501 00:22:33,869 --> 00:22:37,356 that there wasn't any evidence that it was a set fire. 502 00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:42,430 ♪ ♪ 503 00:22:42,430 --> 00:22:44,880 That case caused me to be really concerned 504 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,090 about what really happened in the Jason Lively case, 505 00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:50,576 about what really started that fire, 506 00:22:50,576 --> 00:22:53,717 so I decided to try to find one of those experts. 507 00:22:53,717 --> 00:22:59,826 ♪ ♪ 508 00:22:59,826 --> 00:23:02,311 We have covered a number of cases 509 00:23:02,311 --> 00:23:04,417 where people have been wrongfully convicted, 510 00:23:04,417 --> 00:23:08,041 and the prosecutor's office refuses 511 00:23:08,041 --> 00:23:10,630 to look deeper into the case. 512 00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:15,359 Why did you feel comfortable reexamining your own work? 513 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,534 Prosecutor's job is not just to win a case 514 00:23:17,534 --> 00:23:18,845 or get a conviction. 515 00:23:18,845 --> 00:23:20,985 I always believed I wouldn't go wrong 516 00:23:20,985 --> 00:23:23,091 by doing the right thing, 517 00:23:23,091 --> 00:23:24,713 and as soon as I got the report, 518 00:23:24,713 --> 00:23:28,268 I recognized it was favorable to Jason Lively. 519 00:23:28,268 --> 00:23:30,270 Can you walk me through the report? 520 00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:31,927 He debunked the notion 521 00:23:31,927 --> 00:23:34,482 that there were two points of origin. 522 00:23:34,482 --> 00:23:36,967 He said the fire definitely started inside the floor 523 00:23:36,967 --> 00:23:40,591 between the bedroom floor and the living room ceiling, 524 00:23:40,591 --> 00:23:43,352 then spread up to set the bed on fire. 525 00:23:43,352 --> 00:23:45,424 The burning debris fell to the lower floor, 526 00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:47,115 set the couch on fire, 527 00:23:47,115 --> 00:23:48,772 so he was strongly of the opinion 528 00:23:48,772 --> 00:23:51,360 that there was only one fire. 529 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,949 Only one point of origin for this fire? 530 00:23:53,949 --> 00:23:55,157 Yes. 531 00:23:55,157 --> 00:23:56,883 ♪ ♪ 532 00:23:56,883 --> 00:23:58,126 And it couldn't have even been 533 00:23:58,126 --> 00:24:00,231 someone pouring something on the floor upstairs. 534 00:24:00,231 --> 00:24:03,027 It had to start in-between the ceiling and the floor. 535 00:24:03,027 --> 00:24:04,201 In-between. 536 00:24:04,201 --> 00:24:06,514 He believed it was an accidental fire 537 00:24:06,514 --> 00:24:10,656 caused by an electrical box under the bedroom floor. 538 00:24:10,656 --> 00:24:13,486 What made him think it was electrical in nature? 539 00:24:13,486 --> 00:24:15,695 The fire had smoldered for several hours, 540 00:24:15,695 --> 00:24:17,594 burning a wide area of the subfloor 541 00:24:17,594 --> 00:24:19,423 and wooden joists. 542 00:24:19,423 --> 00:24:21,494 Those beams are completely gone. 543 00:24:21,494 --> 00:24:24,428 It all pointed to the fire having started 544 00:24:24,428 --> 00:24:26,223 where the electrical wiring runs through. 545 00:24:26,223 --> 00:24:27,535 ♪ ♪ 546 00:24:27,535 --> 00:24:31,228 So the original state fire marshal's report 547 00:24:31,228 --> 00:24:34,024 says that "this fire was willful 548 00:24:34,024 --> 00:24:37,372 "and malicious in nature, set in order 549 00:24:37,372 --> 00:24:40,306 to burn the structure and its contents." 550 00:24:40,306 --> 00:24:45,414 And here you have an expert that is nationally recognized 551 00:24:45,414 --> 00:24:49,349 saying that it is electrical in nature 552 00:24:49,349 --> 00:24:53,595 and accidental and that there was only one point of origin. 553 00:24:53,595 --> 00:24:57,737 So if this report comes back and says no arson, 554 00:24:57,737 --> 00:25:00,706 what does that mean for a murder conviction? 555 00:25:00,706 --> 00:25:02,397 If this was not a deliberately set fire, 556 00:25:02,397 --> 00:25:05,124 then he's not guilty of murder. 557 00:25:05,124 --> 00:25:07,057 I was no longer the prosecuting attorney 558 00:25:07,057 --> 00:25:10,716 at that point, so I provided that report 559 00:25:10,716 --> 00:25:13,166 to the defense attorneys and said, you know, 560 00:25:13,166 --> 00:25:16,135 "You need to look at this. This is exculpatory evidence." 561 00:25:16,135 --> 00:25:17,792 ♪ ♪ 562 00:25:17,792 --> 00:25:20,553 The first time I read Craig Beyler's report, 563 00:25:20,553 --> 00:25:22,313 I'm seeing all of this information 564 00:25:22,313 --> 00:25:23,798 that's on his side 565 00:25:23,798 --> 00:25:26,317 that nobody had really talked about. 566 00:25:26,317 --> 00:25:28,354 This man has degrees from Harvard. 567 00:25:28,354 --> 00:25:29,700 I think one of the people 568 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:31,322 that investigated to begin with 569 00:25:31,322 --> 00:25:34,153 had a few weeks' training, and so I kind of thought, 570 00:25:34,153 --> 00:25:35,741 "Okay, we're gonna break this wide open, 571 00:25:35,741 --> 00:25:37,259 and he's gonna get out soon." 572 00:25:37,259 --> 00:25:44,232 ♪ ♪ 573 00:25:45,233 --> 00:25:47,476 It sounded so good. 574 00:25:47,476 --> 00:25:49,686 I was so happy, I was calling family. 575 00:25:49,686 --> 00:25:53,137 God has answered our prayers. Jason's coming home. 576 00:25:53,137 --> 00:25:54,311 ♪ ♪ 577 00:26:02,146 --> 00:26:05,011 I was called as a witness at the habeas corpus hearing. 578 00:26:05,011 --> 00:26:06,944 I had not been prepared. 579 00:26:07,048 --> 00:26:08,532 I didn't have a copy of the report. 580 00:26:08,532 --> 00:26:10,465 No one prepped you before the hearing? 581 00:26:10,465 --> 00:26:12,260 No one talked to me, and I thought 582 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:13,917 they would have Dr. Beyler there, 583 00:26:13,917 --> 00:26:16,057 because I'm not an expert in fire investigations, 584 00:26:16,057 --> 00:26:19,647 but he wasn't there, so I testified that, 585 00:26:19,647 --> 00:26:21,787 from my recollection at the time, 586 00:26:21,787 --> 00:26:23,892 that it probably was an electric fire, 587 00:26:23,892 --> 00:26:26,032 but it could've been something else. 588 00:26:26,136 --> 00:26:27,516 My understanding was that 589 00:26:27,516 --> 00:26:30,692 he didn't completely rule out arson. 590 00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:35,904 Sid Bell didn't explain it the right way. 591 00:26:35,904 --> 00:26:40,184 He misinterpreted what the report was saying. 592 00:26:40,184 --> 00:26:45,362 ♪ ♪ 593 00:26:45,362 --> 00:26:47,847 That was all of his state appeals, 594 00:26:47,847 --> 00:26:51,851 12 years, thousands of dollars gone, 595 00:26:51,851 --> 00:26:54,026 nobody left to turn to. 596 00:27:11,146 --> 00:27:13,770 Things got ugly. Things got dark. 597 00:27:13,873 --> 00:27:17,946 Jason was very depressed. I was very depressed. 598 00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:21,191 Craig Beyler's report didn't help him come home, 599 00:27:21,191 --> 00:27:23,193 so now what? 600 00:27:25,195 --> 00:27:28,094 [soft guitar music] 601 00:27:28,198 --> 00:27:30,649 ♪ ♪ 602 00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:32,512 I took a stand for Jason, 603 00:27:32,616 --> 00:27:36,931 and I was kind of scared to because Jason was a murderer 604 00:27:36,931 --> 00:27:38,380 to everyone. 605 00:27:38,484 --> 00:27:42,453 Everyone in our small town, they listen to what they hear, 606 00:27:42,453 --> 00:27:44,973 so it was arson, it was murder. 607 00:27:44,973 --> 00:27:46,803 And I thought, "How can I get anyone 608 00:27:46,906 --> 00:27:49,875 to believe in his innocence and help me fight?" 609 00:27:49,875 --> 00:27:53,533 So I went online, shared a few transcripts, 610 00:27:53,533 --> 00:27:56,053 and talked about his case 611 00:27:56,053 --> 00:27:57,779 to try to get the public to understand, 612 00:27:57,779 --> 00:28:00,057 you know, how wrong Jason was done. 613 00:28:00,057 --> 00:28:03,302 The Craig Beyler report had so much evidence 614 00:28:03,302 --> 00:28:04,821 in Jason's favor. 615 00:28:04,924 --> 00:28:06,719 I started to get feedback from the public, 616 00:28:06,719 --> 00:28:08,687 and some opinions were turned around 617 00:28:08,687 --> 00:28:09,964 with what I was posting. 618 00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:31,330 Us working on that together-- 619 00:28:31,433 --> 00:28:32,883 Jason's charismatic. 620 00:28:32,883 --> 00:28:35,575 Yeah, I fell in love with him along the way. 621 00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:36,956 ♪ ♪ 622 00:28:48,796 --> 00:28:50,556 I did not know the road ahead of me 623 00:28:50,659 --> 00:28:54,353 and how hard that was gonna be, but having feelings for him, 624 00:28:54,353 --> 00:28:56,700 it was painful. 625 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,151 If I could've stopped it all, I would've, 626 00:28:59,151 --> 00:29:01,463 but... 627 00:29:01,463 --> 00:29:03,120 it just happened. 628 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,159 629 00:29:09,126 --> 00:29:11,957 Jason's lawyer said that this is as far 630 00:29:12,060 --> 00:29:13,752 as he could take Jason's case 631 00:29:13,855 --> 00:29:16,030 because now it's gonna go into the federal court. 632 00:29:16,133 --> 00:29:18,826 He said that we would have to get another attorney, 633 00:29:18,826 --> 00:29:21,690 which would be at least another 50,000 to start. 634 00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:23,071 635 00:29:23,071 --> 00:29:24,728 And we didn't have any more money 636 00:29:24,728 --> 00:29:27,075 for attorneys. 637 00:29:27,075 --> 00:29:28,767 The other option was the Innocence Project. 638 00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:31,942 [soft dramatic music] 639 00:29:32,046 --> 00:29:37,983 ♪ ♪ 640 00:29:37,983 --> 00:29:40,606 Jason had been in prison more than a decade. 641 00:29:40,709 --> 00:29:44,644 What struck me was just how adamant he was 642 00:29:44,748 --> 00:29:46,612 that he didn't do this. 643 00:29:46,612 --> 00:29:47,924 He was also grateful that someone 644 00:29:47,924 --> 00:29:49,753 was finally listening. 645 00:29:49,753 --> 00:29:51,859 When we got the original habeas report 646 00:29:51,962 --> 00:29:53,930 and when we saw the former prosecutor 647 00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:56,864 Sid Bell's false testimony about the Beyler report, 648 00:29:56,864 --> 00:29:59,280 we knew something wrong had happened here. 649 00:29:59,383 --> 00:30:01,869 Dr. Beyler's report showed 650 00:30:01,869 --> 00:30:05,217 it's not murder because it wasn't arson. 651 00:30:05,217 --> 00:30:07,806 Dr. Beyler hadn't spoken with anybody 652 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:10,912 about this case since 2012, and when we read him 653 00:30:10,912 --> 00:30:12,396 what had been said at the hearing, 654 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:13,846 he was horrified. 655 00:30:13,846 --> 00:30:15,883 He said, "I can't believe this. 656 00:30:15,986 --> 00:30:18,851 There's a person in prison right now?" 657 00:30:18,851 --> 00:30:21,647 Trying to correct this terrible mistake 658 00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:24,201 began with us reaching out to Sid Bell, 659 00:30:24,305 --> 00:30:26,134 so we drove out to West Virginia, 660 00:30:26,134 --> 00:30:27,998 and Dr. Beyler met us there. 661 00:30:28,102 --> 00:30:29,379 ♪ ♪ 662 00:30:29,379 --> 00:30:31,070 This was incredibly awkward 663 00:30:31,070 --> 00:30:32,692 because we had seen the transcript 664 00:30:32,796 --> 00:30:36,041 where Sid Bell had misstated what Dr. Beyler had told him, 665 00:30:36,041 --> 00:30:38,353 and we assumed that that was intentional, 666 00:30:38,353 --> 00:30:42,047 that Sid Bell was preserving what he should have known 667 00:30:42,047 --> 00:30:43,945 was a wrongful conviction. 668 00:30:43,945 --> 00:30:46,430 We thought that he was the villain of this story. 669 00:30:46,534 --> 00:30:48,777 ♪ ♪ 670 00:30:48,881 --> 00:30:50,469 So this big meeting happens. 671 00:30:50,469 --> 00:30:52,160 Was that your first time meeting Beyler in-person? 672 00:30:52,264 --> 00:30:53,782 In-person, yes. 673 00:30:53,782 --> 00:30:56,233 Dr. Beyler explained that he is very strongly 674 00:30:56,337 --> 00:30:59,478 of the opinion that this was not arson 675 00:30:59,478 --> 00:31:02,308 and that Lively's conviction should be set aside 676 00:31:02,308 --> 00:31:04,000 because it wasn't a deliberately set fire 677 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,725 by a human being. - Wasn't a murder. 678 00:31:05,725 --> 00:31:09,384 So how did you feel finding out that there was no murder, 679 00:31:09,384 --> 00:31:11,766 that an innocent man was in prison, 680 00:31:11,766 --> 00:31:13,802 and that you were a part of it? 681 00:31:13,802 --> 00:31:14,907 It's disturbing. 682 00:31:14,907 --> 00:31:16,702 I mean, you stay awake at night 683 00:31:16,702 --> 00:31:18,911 thinking about things like that. 684 00:31:18,911 --> 00:31:20,361 When they came to meet with me, 685 00:31:20,361 --> 00:31:22,294 I'm sure they thought I might have the attitude, 686 00:31:22,397 --> 00:31:24,468 "This is my conviction, and I want it upheld." 687 00:31:24,468 --> 00:31:28,334 But I acknowledged that we were wrong. 688 00:31:28,334 --> 00:31:30,681 It was one of the most incredible moments 689 00:31:30,681 --> 00:31:33,270 of my career, and he wrote an affidavit 690 00:31:33,374 --> 00:31:35,272 that I don't think I'll ever see again. 691 00:31:35,272 --> 00:31:38,344 He admitted he had made a terrible mistake. 692 00:31:38,448 --> 00:31:40,070 ♪ ♪ 693 00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:42,176 We provided Sid Bell's affidavit 694 00:31:42,176 --> 00:31:45,075 to the solicitor general's office in West Virginia. 695 00:31:45,179 --> 00:31:52,324 ♪ ♪ 696 00:31:53,187 --> 00:31:56,915 Dr. Glen Jackson agrees 100% with Dr. Beyler 697 00:31:56,915 --> 00:31:59,020 that this was accidental. 698 00:31:59,124 --> 00:32:01,540 He also adds additional findings. 699 00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:03,749 The finding about the toluene 700 00:32:03,852 --> 00:32:06,131 had been a false assumption all along. 701 00:32:06,234 --> 00:32:09,444 The sample that was found at the fire scene 702 00:32:09,548 --> 00:32:11,757 could not have come from gasoline, 703 00:32:11,757 --> 00:32:15,347 and it could not have come from charcoal starter fluid. 704 00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:19,420 However, if you burn wood, that creates toluene. 705 00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:21,215 Sid Bell admitted that that testimony 706 00:32:21,215 --> 00:32:22,733 that he had put on had been false. 707 00:32:22,733 --> 00:32:24,632 708 00:32:27,462 --> 00:32:30,396 [soft music] 709 00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:32,191 ♪ ♪ 710 00:32:32,295 --> 00:32:34,780 We waited and waited and waited. 711 00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:37,127 There was no timeline. 712 00:32:37,127 --> 00:32:40,061 It's very lonely, very heartbreaking. 713 00:32:52,211 --> 00:32:55,076 They kept him there years and years. 714 00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:58,183 It's like kidnapping, and he had to defend himself 715 00:32:58,183 --> 00:33:00,599 physically on multiple occasions 716 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:03,188 from some truly vicious people. 717 00:33:03,188 --> 00:33:06,087 The Aryan Brotherhood had a hit out to kill him 718 00:33:06,087 --> 00:33:08,193 because he refused to join. 719 00:33:08,193 --> 00:33:11,472 They always wanted Jason to have a tattoo, 720 00:33:11,472 --> 00:33:14,854 to put their mark on him, and he never would, 721 00:33:14,958 --> 00:33:17,961 so they put a hit on him to take his life, 722 00:33:17,961 --> 00:33:19,031 and there had been 723 00:33:19,135 --> 00:33:20,860 other prisoners in there murdered. 724 00:33:20,964 --> 00:33:22,276 ♪ ♪ 725 00:33:22,379 --> 00:33:24,899 And so Jason spent the majority of his time 726 00:33:24,899 --> 00:33:27,453 in prison in solitary confinement. 727 00:33:27,557 --> 00:33:28,903 ♪ ♪ 728 00:33:28,903 --> 00:33:31,078 It's absolutely torture, what he went through, 729 00:33:31,078 --> 00:33:33,873 especially after the state had developed evidence 730 00:33:33,873 --> 00:33:35,358 showing he was innocent. 731 00:33:35,358 --> 00:33:42,261 ♪ ♪ 732 00:33:42,261 --> 00:33:47,094 "Dear Emily, the time to act to stop this injustice is now. 733 00:33:47,197 --> 00:33:48,336 "We have had knowledge of this 734 00:33:48,336 --> 00:33:49,510 "compelling exculpatory evidence 735 00:33:49,510 --> 00:33:51,305 "for two years. 736 00:33:51,305 --> 00:33:53,755 "Further delay based on our failure to act 737 00:33:53,755 --> 00:33:56,344 would be immoral and unethical." 738 00:33:56,448 --> 00:34:03,248 ♪ ♪ 739 00:34:04,111 --> 00:34:06,113 And so the court schedules a hearing. 740 00:34:06,113 --> 00:34:07,976 The lead-up to that hearing is excruciating. 741 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,806 It was very uncertain what would happen. 742 00:34:09,806 --> 00:34:11,187 ♪ ♪ 743 00:34:13,189 --> 00:34:15,915 [soft dramatic music] 744 00:34:16,019 --> 00:34:23,164 ♪ ♪ 745 00:34:27,858 --> 00:34:29,757 I could've got out right then, 746 00:34:29,757 --> 00:34:32,932 but I'd've had to walk out and say that I did it. 747 00:34:32,932 --> 00:34:34,865 After you do 14 years 748 00:34:34,865 --> 00:34:37,765 and you're in solitary confinement, 749 00:34:37,765 --> 00:34:40,975 and somebody telling you that you can leave right now 750 00:34:40,975 --> 00:34:42,839 and be with your wife and the ones 751 00:34:42,839 --> 00:34:46,739 you been dying to be with for years... 752 00:34:46,843 --> 00:34:49,570 but you ain't gonna have no future, 753 00:34:49,570 --> 00:34:52,987 and you gon' have to admit that you're wrong 754 00:34:52,987 --> 00:34:55,438 and say that I was guilty of murder. 755 00:34:55,438 --> 00:34:57,509 All that time, all that they took away from me 756 00:34:57,509 --> 00:34:59,476 being for nothing. 757 00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:00,891 I turned 'em down. 758 00:35:00,891 --> 00:35:05,448 759 00:35:05,448 --> 00:35:06,794 [knock on door] 760 00:35:08,899 --> 00:35:10,004 - Hey, hello. - Hi, Jason! 761 00:35:10,004 --> 00:35:11,143 How you doing? Come on in. 762 00:35:11,143 --> 00:35:12,455 How are you, boss? Nice to meet you. 763 00:35:12,455 --> 00:35:13,939 - Nice to meet you, ma'am. - Hi, Billie. 764 00:35:13,939 --> 00:35:16,355 - Hey, nice to meet you. - I'm so happy to meet you. 765 00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:20,152 Can you tell me about this? 766 00:35:20,152 --> 00:35:21,291 This is my cell in Mount Olive. 767 00:35:21,291 --> 00:35:23,190 This is where I stayed in. 768 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:25,123 That right there, that's 11 years right there. 769 00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:26,503 You spent 11 years in this room? 770 00:35:26,503 --> 00:35:28,574 11 [bleep] years in that right there. 771 00:35:28,678 --> 00:35:31,543 ♪ ♪ 772 00:35:31,543 --> 00:35:34,718 So September of 2020, you have been in prison 773 00:35:34,718 --> 00:35:37,342 since 2005? - Yeah. 774 00:35:37,342 --> 00:35:39,482 And you get called into this hearing 775 00:35:39,482 --> 00:35:41,415 with your lawyer Andrew George. 776 00:35:41,415 --> 00:35:43,279 This is what kind of hearing? 777 00:35:43,279 --> 00:35:47,731 For the judge to say if Jason could come home or not. 778 00:35:47,731 --> 00:35:49,768 - To get me out. - To vacate the sentence? 779 00:35:49,768 --> 00:35:50,907 To vacate my sentence, yeah. 780 00:35:50,907 --> 00:35:53,047 And Andrew told me, "I don't know 781 00:35:53,047 --> 00:35:55,532 if Jason's coming home or not." - Uh-huh. 782 00:35:55,532 --> 00:35:58,294 We were asking a judge to do something extraordinary 783 00:35:58,294 --> 00:35:59,536 at this hearing, 784 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,607 which was to throw out a conviction. 785 00:36:01,607 --> 00:36:04,472 We didn't know whether or not the judge would do that. 786 00:36:04,576 --> 00:36:06,094 ♪ ♪ 787 00:36:06,094 --> 00:36:09,477 I was told to pick Jason some clothes out. 788 00:36:09,477 --> 00:36:10,961 Had 'em packed in a bag, 789 00:36:10,961 --> 00:36:13,654 and we had no idea what to expect. 790 00:36:13,654 --> 00:36:15,173 ♪ ♪ 791 00:36:15,276 --> 00:36:18,279 Jason comes in in his full prison outfit, 792 00:36:18,383 --> 00:36:20,385 and the judge started with the findings 793 00:36:20,385 --> 00:36:22,559 that led to Jason's conviction. 794 00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:24,699 It didn't look so great for us. 795 00:36:24,699 --> 00:36:26,425 796 00:36:26,529 --> 00:36:28,565 I was just trying to stay focused, 797 00:36:28,669 --> 00:36:30,636 and the whole time, when he's talking, 798 00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:32,742 I can't... 799 00:36:32,845 --> 00:36:36,366 [sobs softly] 800 00:36:36,366 --> 00:36:37,988 I can't make out what he's saying, 801 00:36:38,092 --> 00:36:40,128 and it's all going so fast. 802 00:36:40,232 --> 00:36:42,993 Then the judge went into the new findings 803 00:36:42,993 --> 00:36:45,962 of Dr. Beyler and the state expert. 804 00:36:45,962 --> 00:36:48,965 He said that, in light of this new evidence, 805 00:36:48,965 --> 00:36:51,209 no jury could have convicted you. 806 00:36:51,312 --> 00:36:54,246 There was no arson here. 807 00:36:54,246 --> 00:36:57,560 He affirmatively found that Jason was innocent. 808 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,424 ♪ ♪ 809 00:36:59,424 --> 00:37:02,220 And I asked him if I could go home. 810 00:37:02,323 --> 00:37:03,704 [sniffles] 811 00:37:03,704 --> 00:37:06,362 ♪ ♪ 812 00:37:06,362 --> 00:37:07,984 He told me I could. 813 00:37:07,984 --> 00:37:11,159 ♪ ♪ 814 00:37:11,159 --> 00:37:13,817 Hearing the judge say all these things, 815 00:37:13,921 --> 00:37:15,750 I couldn't process it, 816 00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:17,683 and then I look and see Jason standing up, 817 00:37:17,683 --> 00:37:19,133 and they're taking the cuffs off, 818 00:37:19,133 --> 00:37:21,687 and that's when it all came together. 819 00:37:21,791 --> 00:37:23,033 Like, he's coming home. 820 00:37:23,033 --> 00:37:24,828 821 00:37:24,828 --> 00:37:27,210 I just ran up here and grabbed him, 822 00:37:27,314 --> 00:37:30,420 and I gave him the biggest hug and kiss. 823 00:37:30,524 --> 00:37:33,665 That was the first time I was able to really kiss him 824 00:37:33,665 --> 00:37:36,115 in 15 years. 825 00:37:36,115 --> 00:37:38,014 Oh, that was the best feeling you could-- 826 00:37:38,117 --> 00:37:39,912 I could ever have. 827 00:37:39,912 --> 00:37:46,712 828 00:37:46,816 --> 00:37:49,094 It's like the best feeling you could ever imagine. 829 00:37:49,094 --> 00:37:51,269 I mean, like, oh, my God, 830 00:37:51,372 --> 00:37:55,273 I just exploded in a million pieces of happiness. 831 00:37:55,273 --> 00:37:57,240 It was something-- - Who all was there that day? 832 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,414 - Everybody. - Everybody. 833 00:37:58,414 --> 00:38:01,762 Everybody. We have a big family. 834 00:38:01,865 --> 00:38:04,385 Everyone showed up. 835 00:38:04,385 --> 00:38:06,145 It's almost like a dream, you know? 836 00:38:06,145 --> 00:38:08,424 So what are your plans now? 837 00:38:08,424 --> 00:38:11,116 - I'm, uh--today? - Yes. 838 00:38:11,219 --> 00:38:13,705 I'm gonna go to, uh, my mom's house 839 00:38:13,808 --> 00:38:15,293 and eat steak. 840 00:38:15,396 --> 00:38:17,364 I thought, when Jason got released that day, 841 00:38:17,467 --> 00:38:20,608 he was gonna be the same Jason went in, 842 00:38:20,608 --> 00:38:22,507 but... 843 00:38:22,507 --> 00:38:26,545 he still lives in torture. 844 00:38:26,649 --> 00:38:28,961 You know, you think being exonerated 845 00:38:28,961 --> 00:38:31,309 and coming home and freedom and then everything's 846 00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:34,760 gonna be okay after that, but it's not, you know? 847 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,487 Then you have these demons pop up and PTSD. 848 00:38:37,591 --> 00:38:39,489 - Yeah. - I think I'm strong. 849 00:38:39,489 --> 00:38:42,043 I know I am, and that's why it's hard. 850 00:38:42,043 --> 00:38:44,218 Just working every day and trying-- 851 00:38:44,218 --> 00:38:45,978 ♪ ♪ 852 00:38:45,978 --> 00:38:48,671 I mean, it's a struggle just to get out of the house. 853 00:38:48,671 --> 00:38:50,880 ♪ ♪ 854 00:38:50,983 --> 00:38:52,709 You think you're gonna have this happy ending, 855 00:38:52,813 --> 00:38:55,919 and then that's where almost the real work starts. 856 00:38:55,919 --> 00:38:57,335 I have good doctors. 857 00:38:57,438 --> 00:39:00,855 They're trying, but we can't even afford them. 858 00:39:00,855 --> 00:39:02,754 To have Jason have a decent life 859 00:39:02,754 --> 00:39:05,688 is to see doctors, counseling, therapy, medications. 860 00:39:05,688 --> 00:39:07,172 Yeah. 861 00:39:07,172 --> 00:39:08,587 It's hard for us. 862 00:39:08,587 --> 00:39:10,796 863 00:39:10,796 --> 00:39:12,798 The state has a moral obligation 864 00:39:12,798 --> 00:39:15,974 to make him whole as best as it can. 865 00:39:15,974 --> 00:39:18,597 Jason and Billie have now gotten married, 866 00:39:18,597 --> 00:39:20,047 and that's wonderful, 867 00:39:20,047 --> 00:39:22,187 but they have to make ends meet, 868 00:39:22,187 --> 00:39:25,570 So we have petitioned for Jason for compensation 869 00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:28,607 under a West Virginia statute that expressly provides 870 00:39:28,607 --> 00:39:31,817 for paying damages to wrongfully convicted people. 871 00:39:31,817 --> 00:39:35,511 Unfortunately, the state is moving to dismiss it, 872 00:39:35,511 --> 00:39:37,444 but we're not gonna go away. 873 00:39:37,444 --> 00:39:40,619 We're gonna take this as far as we possibly can. 874 00:39:40,723 --> 00:39:43,104 They have admitted that they incarcerated 875 00:39:43,104 --> 00:39:44,865 an innocent man. 876 00:39:44,865 --> 00:39:48,869 What is the cost of 15 years of a person's life? 877 00:39:48,869 --> 00:39:51,009 There's not a number you could put 878 00:39:51,009 --> 00:39:54,633 on what they took from Jason to pay him back 879 00:39:54,633 --> 00:39:57,912 to fix what they did to him. 880 00:39:57,912 --> 00:39:59,707 The state ain't done nothing for me. 881 00:39:59,707 --> 00:40:01,053 - Mm-hmm. - You know what I mean? 882 00:40:01,053 --> 00:40:02,710 Nothing. - Yeah. 883 00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:04,781 They haven't even said I'm sorry, 884 00:40:04,781 --> 00:40:07,025 and if it weren't for my family and her... 885 00:40:07,025 --> 00:40:08,578 Yeah. 886 00:40:08,578 --> 00:40:09,614 Well, I couldn't have made it. 887 00:40:09,614 --> 00:40:12,375 ♪ ♪ 888 00:40:12,479 --> 00:40:15,413 [dog barking] 889 00:40:16,897 --> 00:40:19,796 [somber music] 890 00:40:19,796 --> 00:40:21,971 891 00:40:21,971 --> 00:40:23,697 Oh, wow. 892 00:40:23,697 --> 00:40:27,045 It's just like he left it the night before he died. 893 00:40:27,045 --> 00:40:30,220 ♪ ♪ 894 00:40:30,220 --> 00:40:33,948 It's like the house is a metaphor for the situation. 895 00:40:34,052 --> 00:40:36,572 You know, this fire happened in 2005, 896 00:40:36,675 --> 00:40:41,577 and it is still sitting here, a burnt out shell. 897 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,477 It's eerie because two people lost their lives here. 898 00:40:45,581 --> 00:40:48,584 Doc Whitley died in this building, 899 00:40:48,687 --> 00:40:50,620 but Jason Lively's life 900 00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:54,279 was ruined by the fire that happened here 901 00:40:54,279 --> 00:40:58,559 because mistake after mistake was made, 902 00:40:58,663 --> 00:41:01,320 and when all these mistakes add up, 903 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,047 what we're left with are shambles. 904 00:41:04,047 --> 00:41:05,463 Who's gonna fix it? 905 00:41:05,463 --> 00:41:07,430 Who's gonna put this back together? 906 00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:08,880 Who's gonna make it right 907 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,814 for Jason Lively and his family? 908 00:41:11,814 --> 00:41:16,888 ♪ ♪ 65210

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