Original subtitles

For several days I'd been living among the members of the Westboro Baptist

Church, a fire and brimstone Christian group made up almost entirely

of a single family.

Since the Iraq war, they've become infamous for picketing the funerals of

soldiers as a protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality. America

is doomed.

God hates fags.

Are you a homosexual?

Are you or not? We're servants of the living God, hon. Where does it matter

where we came from?

The Westboro Baptist Church is probably the most controversial church in

America. Hush up, hush up, and obey your God!

And for three weeks, I'd be trying to fathom why they'd created such a strange

ministry. What was that one?

Is this in the Bible?

That's a fat ton.

The church is situated in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.

Its pastor is the family patriarch, Fred Phelps, also known as Gramps.

Hi there. You must be Shirley.

Yes. I'm Louis.

Hi, Louis. How do you do? But in the last few years, the day -to -day

have been run by the pastor's daughter, Shirley, a lawyer and mother to 11

children. So where are we? This is an office area, would we say? Yes.

So these are your signs. You've got God hates fags here.

Uh -huh. And God hates you. Just don't think of fags as just those guys who are

taking it up the tailpipe.

Think of it as people who are involved in some perverted sex act. And I'm

talking about anything other than one man, one woman in their marriage bed.

So beneath that, are there gradations of iniquity, as it were?

If you see a nation or a people who have risen up with one voice to say that

it's okay to be gay, you're looking at a doomed people. Those people have

crossed the line. When you say gay pride, you obviously have given over any

trace or any notion that you're going to admit that you're sinning. You

understand that, don't you? It's okay to be gay. It's an innocent alternate

lifestyle. That's what I believe.

Well, then you can't say, then you believe that it's not a sin.

Yes. And so you condemn yourself because by your words are you justified, and by

your words are you condemned.

But am I right in thinking, though, that Jesus actually wasn't a big thing for

him? He had other priorities rather than homosexuality. And it's not one of the

Ten Commandments, is it?

Yes. Which one? Thou shalt not commit adultery.

That's not being gay. It's cheating on someone. The streets of this nation are

full of married men having fag sex.

That's adultery.

So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery just

because you're a fat.

Hi, guys.

Hi. Hi.

Gabriel.

How do you do?

Go put yourself away in gray. How do you do? Gray.

For the last few years, the church has taken its

message of God's hate.

to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, reasoning that

were struck down by God for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.

So what is the plan today?

The plan is that we'll get out here and put these signs in the air. At the

funeral? You can call it that, but what they're doing here is they're

worshipping the dead.

You said you do research into the soldiers that have died?

He was a staff sergeant, Kevin Ziegler, and he died of an IED.

That's a... Rose -eyed bomb.

Right, an improvised explosive device.

Exactly. It says his family was told that he and another soldier died while

trying to disable the explosive.

He was 31.

Do you think it's possible that by getting in people's faces in this way,

more likely to put people off?

the word of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Have you thought about that just in terms of human psychology?

You think our job is to win souls to Christ. All we do by getting in their

and putting these signs in front of them and these plain words is make what was

already in their heart come out of their mouth.

What do you really think?

This is what I really think.

No, but you do, I mean, but you actually, there's a part of you that

think that. No, there's not any part of me.

The commandment has gone forth.

Why go down there? America is doomed. Because we are the evil angels.

Evil angels? Exactly. And it's not because we're evil people, but because

bringing to you the message of the evil that God has determined upon you. And

once we have delivered this message... I thought God didn't do evil.

Oh, my goodness.

Come on, guys. Let's get out of here. Let's bail.

This is our corner. Come on, little boys.

Zach, you hop in in case he wants you to stay. So I'm going to keep a little bit

of a distance because I'm not part of the picket. That's okay. You know what I

mean? Sure.

I'm just here as a journalist.

Yes.

Surely. Yes.

Today's picket was at an intersection near a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

Among the picketers was the pastor's wife, though of the pastor himself there

was no sign.

Like many states across America, Missouri has established strict

an attempt to limit the Phelps' contact with the bereaved, and I was relieved to

see how far from the funeral the church members were required to be.

the devil.

And you're going home.

You know, I don't agree with the lifestyle. I don't. You do. Yes, you do.

yes, you do. You love fags. You hate God. So just shut up.

What was he talking about? He's talking about, I don't agree with fags. You

know, Kate, Sarah, Sarah.

You think you can fix this with that? You think you're going to change God?

You know why you're there, you fucking bitch?

Because you.

We're out here 25 minutes or so, but so far the reaction has been, I'd say,

approximately 100 % negative.

Would you agree?

Yeah, I would agree.

Do you think maybe there's another way of delivering the message?

Maybe like a letter of consolation to the family of the soldier? Well, we send

letters all the time, but not consolation.

You angered the Lord your God, and now he's cursed your family.

There's no consolation there. They're not going to have any consolation.

As a picket today, how would you rate this out of ten? How many marks out of

ten?

They're all ten.

All of them. Jacob, would you say ten out of ten as well?

Jacob? Yeah.

God did it.

Therefore, it's perfect.

Does everything get ten out of ten then? Everything that happens? Yeah.

Everything. Everything. Thank God for all of his judgments. Not one word falls

to the ground.

Yeah.

A little later...

Shirley and I regrouped at the family homestead, where most of the 70 or so

churchgoers live.

So this is the centre of the headquarters right here, isn't it?

You can call it that. What would you call it?

I'd call it my backyard.

But it's also the backyards of all these other houses.

Well, there's actually real lines of demarcation.

Just because we took the fences down so it would be a nice place to raise all

these children. You don't live communally with the other members of the

then? No, no, no.

And where does Pastor Phelps, the big man, the patriarch, where does he live?

He lives on that second floor.

Up there.

You understand, in that building you've got the house part kind of to this side

and you've got the church part to that side.

Have you ever wondered whether you might be part of a cult?

What exactly do you have to be to qualify as a cult?

Well, basically, isn't it? It's like a fringe religious group that exercises an

inordinate amount of control over its membership.

You have to have certain other things also.

Brainwashing or... Yes, yes, and your cult leader... A charismatic leader at

top, maybe like Fred Phelps, your father, could qualify.

Look, hon, I don't care about all that nonsense. I'm telling you...

that we're the ones who are strictly adhering to the doctrines of faith of

the mainline religions.

They're not, we are.

So what else you got?

To help her run the ministry, Shirley relies on her two eldest daughters,

and Becca.

I don't see any posters of pop bands.

Can we look in your closet?

I guess you can.

But you have quite a lot of clothes.

Yeah, pretty much.

Are there rules about what you can and can't wear?

Modesty. Our parents don't have to tell us. We know what we can and can't wear.

Because we'll feel ashamed the other way. Because we know what's appropriate.

How do the girls at your school dress?

One word.

Whore. You agree?

Mm -hmm. Same way. Yeah.

And what do the other people at your school think of you?

They hate us, but we're really nice. We're nice to everyone. Why do they hate

you? Because they hate the message.

Because we tell them they're going to hell. We tell them plainly that you

live the way you're living and expect to go to heaven when you die.

Should we do the next room?

Yeah.

So basically your circle of friends is mainly or exclusively...

limited to people who are part of this church. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Do

have any friends who are outside this group?

Nobody that we consider a true friend, because friendship with the world is

enmity with God.

May I ask if you've had boyfriends, either of you? No, we haven't. Why not?

Because that's not what we're about in this life. We're not about serving

ourselves. An invitation that's not needed and takes up time that we just

have.

When you come on with a lot of the stuff about the Bible, some people might

think you come off a tiny bit arrogant.

If they're offended by the judgments that we make, that we make according to

God's standard, then that is a clear indication that they hate God's Word,

obviously, and that they're headed for hell.

We're marching, we're marching, we are marching, Lord.

We're marching, we're marching to Zion, Lord.

We're marching to Zion.

The end of my first day at the church, and during a choir practice, I had a

moment to reflect.

We're marching to Zion, the beautiful city of God.

I felt I'd been bombarded with religious rhetoric.

and that it was preventing me from getting to know the church members as

With the girls especially, I sensed there was another side to their story,

was curious to know more.

The next day, and I was on my way to see Jael Phelps, niece to Shirley, cousin

to Megan and Becca, and in her day job, a nurse in training.

It would be a chance to meet another of the younger women, and also to ask about

some of the family members who were no longer in the church, having run off or

been excluded.

Hi. How are you doing?

Good. Can we come in? Uh -huh.

Can you show us around a little bit?

This is the computer study area.

This is a picture of all the girls in the church when they were younger.

my grandma.

Let's see that.

Who's that? That's Kathy.

She's gone now.

Yes. And who's that?

This is Betty. This is Fred Jr.'s wife.

This is my Aunt Liz.

This is Doc.

She's gone. Right.

This is Becky.

That's my grandma. This is her daughter, Sharon, who's also gone.

Is everyone else going to stay, do you think?

Who? Everybody else? Yeah.

Yeah? As far as we know.

I think so. You're going to stay?

I'm going to stay, yes. Do you like it? I love it.

Do you? Yes, I do. I really do. As far as you're concerned, those people that

have gone away, are they going to hell?

What if you don't believe in the Bible?

Well, then you're going to hell.

So I'm going to hell?

Yes, Louie, you are. You're going to hell.

You are.

Anyways, this is my room.

Ta -da!

There's pictures everywhere.

And then what is this one? Oh, you like it?

Yeah.

The wrath of God is revealed from heaven. It's awesome.

Do you think that's what it might look like when, you know what I mean,

Scripture is fulfilled?

That kind of thing, and other similar things, natural disasters, it's going to

get more and worse, and it's going to be so awesome.

Has there ever been a time when you felt tempted?

I don't want to talk about that.

I don't think it's appropriate. I'm not going to dwell on anything

inappropriate, if I can possibly help it.

I'll take that as a yes.

I'm not going to answer that question.

We're going to seek that which is good and abhor that which is evil.

That's why we're not going to dwell and tell you about every single sin that we

ever did in our lives.

It's not sinful to get married, is it? And if you wanted to do that, then how

you do that?

Well, first of all, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

Why wouldn't that happen? Are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me?

Because I'm J .L. Phelps and I serve God. That's why.

That's why.

And I'm not going to go seeking after that because it's foolishness.

Your father, Jonathan, he got married.

He did. Your grandfather, Gramps, he got married. They really did. Shirley got

married. And so why should you be any different?

Well, Louis.

We're living in the last of the last days. Time is very short.

Times are very different than what they were 15 years ago.

There could, but I'm not going to plan it.

And I'm not going to seek after it.

I'm not going to dwell on it.

It's not my interest.

It's not my focus.

I'm a dumb young girl, but I'm not that dumb and goofy to go, it's so silly.

I'm not going to talk. I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Okay?

So, I don't want to go there.

That afternoon, I had an appointment to see Steve Drain.

He was unusual in not having been born into the group.

Hey. Hey, how's it going, guys? Are you Steve?

I am.

How are you doing?

I'm doing good.

I'm Louis.

Hi Louis.

Nice to meet you. As part of his service to the church, Steve handles online

media and is an all -round helper to the man he now calls Gramps.

So what would you like to show me?

You want to see how we make signs? The famous signs, the controversial signs.

But in his old life, I'd heard he and I had something in common.

Is it true that you first came here as a documentary filmmaker?

Yeah. So you brought your family here all the way from Florida?

And are you glad you did that? Absolutely. It's the only thing that I,

end of the day, can say that I'm really, really glad that I did.

Really? Mm -hmm.

Is Gramps a disciple of God? Anybody who has a sincere message, an ambassador

from God, preaching a sincere message of God, is a prophet.

Gramps is a prophet, as are all of these other people around about here.

So these are some of the ones, these are ones, some of these are kind of random,

aren't they? Well, they're not random. This one.

Liz Taylor?

Of course she's a fag lover.

Of course she is.

And Desmond Tutu? How do you choose?

He can't help but lie about the scripture every single time he opens his

How do you choose who you're going to make the signs about? Well, look,

no logic here. Actually, there's plenty of logic.

Anybody who's in the news, who supports the filthy fag agenda.

We're going to make a sign about it. Did you feel this way about homosexuality

before you came here?

No, of course not. What was your feeling? I was the smartest man in the

embraced the philosophy of libertarianism. I was a genius.

It's okay to be gay. I was a genius.

Look at this.

That's a little offensive.

People in Britain consider her an icon.

She split hell wide open when she died. She's a fag enabler and she'll be in

hell for all of eternity.

You know why?

Are we talking about Princess Diana? I can't believe my ears. Oh my goodness

gracious.

In addition to the funeral pickets, the church also does a multitude of local

pickets of churches and other targets chosen by the pastor.

So where are we actually?

going to now?

We're going to a ticket here at the Jew Church.

The... What did you say?

The Jew Church.

That sounds a little anti -Semitic when you say the Jew Church. These people

hate God. They worship the rectum. The rectum? That sounds insane when you say

that. It does?

Yeah. They worship that which they desire. That makes them feel good.

It's an expression of the flesh.

It's a metaphor?

Of course it is.

Idolatry, fornication, all manner of sexual perversion go hand in hand,

They all go hand in hand. We're talking about callous defiance against God

Almighty. Jesus killed Christ.

You're going to try to say they worship the same God as I worship?

They killed Christ.

Newsflash, Frania. Christ was Jewish.

What I'm trying to tell you, Brainiac, is Christ was God.

They were living in a Jewish area, so of course the Jewish people were involved,

but a lot of them weren't involved. They were involved?

What do you mean they were involved? The Romans did it, not the Jews. Their

crucifixion, the Jews did it. They live in callous defiance of the scripture.

And I've got to warn them about it, Louis.

It's my unction. Cry aloud. Fair not. Lift up thy voice like a trumpet. Show

people their transgression.

You see these wonderful signs.

God hates fags. Temple Beth Sodom.

Jew fags. God is USA's terrorist. Look at God hates America. These are

signs. Fag troops.

America!

America!

God show!

That evening, Steve had invited me to drop in on a special taping of one of

church's online sermons.

Everything okay, Steve?

Hinting that there might be an opportunity to have my first face -to

Pastor Phelps.

Hey, everything okay?

Yeah, everything's fine. Yeah, we just wanted to make sure that we got our

technical difficulties straightened from yesterday.

Everything cool?

Yep. Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

Steve. Come on.

Where have you gone? Hello?

Where are you?

Right here. All right. What's going on?

Yep, yep.

Why don't you go ahead and... Hi, guys.

How do you do?

I'm Louis.

From the BBC.

Yes. You must be Pastor Fred Phelps. Yes. Very pleased to meet you. Glad to

you, Lewis. What is happening?

Pay attention.

Pay close attention.

Billy Graham, hell -bound false prophet.

I've known Billy Graham more than 50 years.

And, Billy, you are headed straight and irreversibly for hell.

You are a lying, money -grubbing Armenian heretic.

At 88, Graham will soon die and split hell wide open.

And Westboro Baptist Church will picket your funeral.

Amen.

Thanks, Graham. That was awesome.

Okay, guys. What do you want? I mean, you are basically the pastor of the

and the paterfamilias of the whole group. Didn't you see that newspaper

story down at the... Bottom of the stairs.

No, we were hoping Steve was going to give us a little tour downstairs, and

he was in such a rush.

What was that all about? We've got a schedule to keep.

You're here to shoot us. We're not here to cater to you. We've got a schedule to

keep.

There's a pretty big family here. How many children do you have?

Don't bother me with that kind of silly question.

Get to some stuff that I'm the only one that can answer. Then we'll have a good

interview here. In fact, were we supposed to have an interview?

You serpent.

Can we have an interview?

Not now.

Not now.

No, not now. And you were saying how many children you have?

Hey, guys, let's go on downstairs.

Everybody in the civilized world knows how many children I've got and how many

grandchildren and how many great -grandchildren.

Is he stalling for time or what is it? Shall we go downstairs?

Thank you for having us. Sure.

Glad to see you guys.

There's the article he was talking about.

Time magazine. Did that go okay?

Yeah, it went great.

What is the big deal about asking how many children? He probably would have

more time for you right there if you had some kind of sincere and relevant

theological question.

But as far as... That was a sincere question.

You can't fault me on that. I sincerely was curious to know his answer to the

question, how many children do you have? You already knew how many children he

has.

Um... Yeah, but I wanted to know how many he would say that he had, because I

know that he had 13, but that four have fallen away.

Well, you know that he has 13, and that four have fallen away.

There's your answer. But I was looking for, I wanted to hear what he had to say

about it. He told you what he had to say on it.

You want us to say it a certain way?

No, I just wanted to know how many he would say. You have the guy who has, by

far, head and shoulders, more scriptural knowledge.

Knowledge of the Bible, knowledge of the moral realm, of anybody who's crawling

all over this earth like ants on a banana, and you ask them some silly,

question like that? Man,

you're wasting your opportunity, dude.

That's all I've got to say.

The next day, and I joined Shirley as she did her afternoon school run.

Where are we going, Shirley?

We're going over here to pick up the children.

By now I had sensed how impregnable the beliefs of the church members are, and I

wanted to understand how that faith is instilled in the children of the family.

And they go to normal schools? I'm surprised they're not homeschooled in a

There's two reasons that we can't do that. The first one is, I couldn't do

job justice.

And the second is...

Because these children need to be in the faces of the community because that is

part of our testimony.

Do they sort of preach at school?

No. No. Only their presence, only their walking ticket signs. They see these

kids and they think, God hates fags or America's doomed or anything like that.

Do they have friends at the schools?

Well, they have friendly acquaintances.

I don't know if you'd call them friends. I don't know what really constitutes a

friend. And they can bring them home?

You think these kids are going to want to come to our house?

That's very nice.

Yeah. Where would that go?

Pretty quick, you're going to get into the discussion.

But on the other hand, that's how I met my husband.

He hung out with my brother.

Sounds like you haven't made up your own mind.

I'm saying that when they turn up, when they come around...

They're welcome.

Could they bring girlfriends or boyfriends home? I would not have my

calling themselves dating anyone or doing any activities that would remotely

resemble what this generation calls dating. To what end would they do that?

What would be the purpose?

So they can fornicate? Fun.

Fun? Is that equal fornicating?

But not necessarily.

Well, what does it equal?

What does it equal?

Having fun.

Having fun. Holding hands.

Holding hands.

No. Sending little notes to each other.

Just what? So you can teach them how to fornicate later?

So they can learn early? You've already got fornication on the brain. I know,

and that's because that's what this generation is all about.

Fornicating.

One of the pickets that afternoon was outside a hardware store that sells

Swedish vacuum cleaners.

Apparently, Swedish authorities imprisoned a local pastor for preaching

homosexuality, which was enough to make the whole nation a target.

I'd seen some of the youngest members of the Klan holding placards, and I

wondered how much of the message they actually understood.

How old are you, Shirley?

Seven. Seven.

Do you know what the sign means?

No.

No.

Shirley, she doesn't know what it means.

Bag, troop, flag, symbol, they're all idols

that this nation worships above God.

Does that help you at all, or have I said a lot of words that were too big?

Maybe she's just out here making up numbers, you know, because she doesn't

really get it. Noah, do you know what fag troops are?

Yeah. What?

It's this nation of these fags.

It's the nation of fags.

That's what fag troops mean.

It is a nation of fags, that's right. Wait, wait, wait, you're not going to

him get away with that, are you? No, I'm not going to.

Fag soldiers!

Okay, fag soldiers.

I'm sort of glad that they don't understand it better.

Well, you understand.

Noah, do you know what else you could be besides a fag to be in trouble with God

and be included in that sign?

If you're not just a fag, but what else? A fraud.

Um, Swedish yen.

And, um, soldiers and... But what are you? you if you're not a practicing fag

what are you and what if you support fags what does that make you you're a

you could say you're what you're really doing is grooming him into the weird

behavior that is characteristic of your group i mean if you want to explain your

moral outlook to him you could do that in a classroom are you calling our

service to our god weird behavior is that what you just did Yes. You don't

to call our service to God weird and thereby make it so.

Your statement doesn't make it right, doesn't make it a fact.

The world calls it weird.

I don't care what the world, yes, and the world hates us. Hello.

The next morning I was with Megan.

Phelps' family members are expected to hold down mainstream jobs and give 10 %

of their income to the church.

Many work as lawyers, and Megan was hoping to follow in that tradition.

So where are we going?

We are going to Washburn University.

That's the university you go to?

Yes, it is.

It's lovely.

Good stuff.

Totally. Do you want to be a lawyer as well then?

Yes, I do. Like so many of your aunts and uncles?

Yeah, I'm the only one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer.

By now, the church members had learned a little about my life, and they knew

that I'd had a child with my partner out of wedlock, a detail which seemed to

put me in the firing line.

Do you like going to the pickets?

Yeah. Are you kidding?

It must get kind of old, though. You don't get tired of all the sins,

your sins and your lust. Do I? I say you don't. Don't I? Because you keep doing

it. Are you talking about me specifically?

You or everybody else. You don't get tired of serving your lust. I don't get

tired of serving my God.

So should I be killed for having extramarital intercourse?

According to the Mosaic Code? Yeah.

Actually, I'm not sure. I think so.

I know what adultery is.

Wow. And homosexuality was.

You wouldn't feel any guilt for that.

I want to tell you the truth.

This is interesting.

This is actually where you go to college, isn't it? You don't have any

here? No.

Really? I have acquaintances. You know, people I go to school with. They're not

my friends. Do you have any acquaintances that you like?

Any acquaintances? You mean like on a humanistic level that are friendly?

Yeah. Any guys?

Yes.

What do you want me to say?

If you saw a guy in one of your classes and you thought he seemed nice and had

potential or whatever, and he said, you know, do you want to get a coffee?

What would you do?

Actually, that has happened before. And I said, no, I'm sorry, I'm busy.

Why? Because I have other things to do.

What was his name?

I don't even remember.

Yeah,

he was actually, yeah.

Why? Robert.

Robert? Robert.

I think.

Is that someone you know?

No.

He looks like the guy that asked me out.

Sorry.

It's kind of gooey, isn't it?

Kind of gooey. But I know young women sometimes think about these things. Most

women also have a whole lot of lust and fornication

and do a whole lot of things that we don't do.

Why do you have to put it like that? Why can't you say, make love?

Because you're trying to make it seem like something that it isn't. That's not

what these people do. That's not what you're doing.

What do you mean? I'm sorry. Because you're not married.

Get married, see?

You seriously wouldn't mind if you never got married and you never experienced

everything that represents?

No. It wouldn't bother you?

No. On a human level, it wouldn't.

You think so?

It shakes it up a bit when there's more than one.

And so my days at the church wore on.

As the time passed, I could feel myself being absorbed into the family.

As hateful as they could be at the picket, among themselves the

church members had made a life that in many ways was quite appealing.

almost as though their bond with each other had been strengthened by the

hostility of the outside world.

With the girls, I began to see a more human side to their personalities.

That's my friend!

What did you say?

I said, are you kidding me? Who is going to marry us?

And it was easy to become desensitized to their message.

and how provocative it really is.

And that we all... See, they covered their license plate.

So I don't know what they were up to. Uh -oh, did they hit somebody?

Is he okay?

Is he okay?

I'm sorry, hon.

Well, and they had the license plate down.

You all right, honey?

Hey, bud.

Hey, bud. I'm sorry, hon.

I knew they had to have done something.

I am so sorry.

You want to go over here and talk to your daddy?

I'm sorry.

Hey, hey, you want your sign?

Hey, let me wipe that off of you real quick, okay?

I'm sorry.

Megan, can you?

They're such cowards. Who would hit a child?

Who would do that?

It looks like here, Tim.

Do you see that?

Do you see that color? That's what was in that cup.

So it obviously got around on him.

Seeing seven -year -old Elisha get hit by a drink was a reminder that among the

victims of the Phelps were their own children.

It was Sunday, and I'd been invited along to a church service.

It would be another chance to meet the pastor and maybe have an interview.

Are the bags over there?

But first I had an appointment with jail to help out with the chores around the

homestead.

Do you see much of Graham?

I spend time with him every Monday and Tuesday.

Because I haven't seen that much of him.

I think he's gotten kind of tired of you guys.

How can he be tired of it? Especially you.

Why? And you're impertinent questions.

He doesn't have much patience for people asking a bunch of questions that aren't

relevant to the ministry.

You know, when we were at your house and you said I was going to hell, and you

found that quite funny. I did.

Why? Thinking on those things brings me pleasure to think that the Lord will.

vindicate his people and he will carry out his wrath because he is perfect. It

doesn't make me happy to think of you burning in hell.

Okay. Does that make me a better person than you?

No.

You know God because he sends the wicked to hell and he saves the righteous.

That's comforting to think on.

Why couldn't you feel a bit sad that I was going to hell?

Because it's according to God's will.

So you have been rejoicing all his judgments?

Exactly. That's a very good point. If you got run over by a car, would your

be pleased?

If I got run over by a car, I would be in hell. And my dad would probably be

pleased. Really?

Really.

I'm serious.

And we have to move on, so come on. Jill, that's crazy.

And you're thinking it's crazy.

It's good. Okay, come on.

A little later, I joined the rest of the church members in the family chapel for

my first experience of one of Gramps' services.

Is it true if I do something wrong, like Gramps could go loco?

He won't go loco. He'll just tell you not to do it.

Would it be embarrassing for him?

No, it'd be embarrassing for you. Why?

Because there's just no experience quite like it.

Same -sex marriage, by any name, civil union or otherwise,

is the ultimate smash -mouth -in -your -face insult to

God Almighty. And you think he's going to let England and America and the rest

of this evil world get by with it? God Almighty has not joined fags in holy

wedlock. God no longer keeps America safe.

America's doomed.

Getting the pants beat off of us.

In Iraq.

In Afghanistan.

God is now America's terrorist.

That's who Bush is fighting.

That's the terrorist that he best be afraid of. You tweaked his nose,

you jackass.

You tweaked his nose.

God put it in your wicked heart to start that war.

That's the message we've got at the funerals of these dead soldiers.

God duped you into starting a war so he could punish

you. And any preacher preaching it any other way is a lying, hell -bound, false

prophet.

It's almost 18 months now and the siege has got people eating their babies and

their small children and each other. You're going to eat your babies.

God himself duped Bush into a no -win war.

And he did that by the technique of putting a lying spirit in the mouth

of all his trusted advisors.

To punish America.

You know, this shows that he's going to make at least two million.

Look, that's our capital of war.

At least two million.

Maybe three or four million.

Pastor, would there be five minutes for a couple of questions?

Well, uh...

Yeah, five minutes. Okay.

You know, I was struck by your preaching. You referred mainly to Old

and it was almost as though you felt we were living in a time of biblical

prophecy.

Was that accurate?

No, it's not accurate. If you had just a little knowledge of the Bible, you

would know that what you just said is stupidity and spades.

I don't know how to deal with a question like that.

You're just too dumb.

Sorry.

You've got the duty to know the Bible as well as I do. Why?

Because you're a human being.

God Almighty made you. And God Almighty is going to send your ass to hell.

Is it accurate to say that you regard the Westboro Baptist Church as the only

church that's giving biblical preaching according to the word of God? Is this

three minutes up?

No. The answer to your question is yes.

No, it was five minutes.

Well, but I already talked to them.

So there's three left.

Do you believe the Westboro Baptist Church and your preaching is the only

preaching that is according to the word of God as far as you know?

Asked and answered. Next question.

Okay.

As far as you're concerned, are the people of this church the only ones now

living that will make it to the kingdom of heaven?

Asked and answered. Next question.

Is there something you'd like me to ask?

Nope. I didn't even want to talk to you.

I didn't even want to let you in.

You know, isn't it an act of presumption a little bit on your part that when you

don't have all the information about all the other churches, to assume that you

have a privileged access to grace?

Oh, I know all this and know about them.

How?

I'm not going to keep talking to you. Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you

wasted an opportunity and they're probably going to fire you?

You don't know anything about me, Pastor. Yeah, I do. I know all this and

about you. You're just an evil... I don't want to go there.

Okay, now this is about 15 minutes. Okay, thank you very much for your time.

It's nice to see you, and good luck to you.

Okay, guys.

Did you come to tell us some stuff, Izzy?

God hates fags.

God hates fag enablers.

Therefore, God hates America and all of her military.

Any abominable, disgraceful, filthy conduct that you think of to engage in,

do it and you're proud of it. Quit worshipping the flag, dummy. It can't

you.

I'd sensed a deep wellspring of anger in Gramps and I suspected that this was

the basis for his church's ministry.

His skewed interpretation of the Bible had been handed on to his children and

was now being broadcast to the world.

The Phelps had no interest in winning souls to Christ.

In their world, being hated was proof that they were doing the right thing.

As part of their ever -expanding effort to reach into every corner of America,

the church had decided to picket a soldier's funeral several hundred miles

on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie, Illinois.

For one last time, I joined them.

So you're flying all the way to Illinois?

Yes. Or however many there are of you, just to picket this...

Dead soldier's funeral?

That's right. For 45 minutes? Yep.

Is it really worth it?

Yeah.

Look, hon, they get the message. You see what it's created all around this

nation.

Good morning.

I'm going to sit in the second row.

Somebody else is already there.

Where am I supposed to sit?

So how much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights?

A lot.

How much?

In the $200 ,000 range.

Really? $200 ,000. So that's more than maybe £100 ,000?

Yeah, I don't know what the ratio is. Just to go and spread hate? No, to go

preach the gospel.

Hate? God's hate? I didn't say your hate.

That's very scriptural, what I said.

Well, actually, that's true.

His unit was supposed to end its service in Iraq in August.

But one day before Wojtek was scheduled to leave, he got news that it would be

sent to Baghdad.

He told his family he would be home in November instead, and last week his

mother mailed him his cell phone so he would be able to call.

Wojtek, 26, died two days before Halloween, shot in the neck by

during a raid on a house near Baghdad.

In addition to his mother, Wojtek is survived by his father.

Rick Goodkey, a brother, Christopher, and grandparents.

Doesn't that make you sad, though?

It's very sad that these people won't get the message. All they have to do is

obey their God and they'll stop the pain.

But they're not going to. That's so abstract, though, because... It's not

abstract. The truth is we don't really know anything more than this article

tells us about...

Craig Wojtek, now you take it as that's dramatic. No, we know two things.

Because he's been killed, therefore he was doing something sinful.

I know that he was fighting for a nation who has made God their enemy. But you

don't think there's any good people out there in the military? This is all very

plain and very simple, and you are not going to make me feel bad about this,

because I did not do that.

I'm doing this, though, to help them.

Is there any danger of you feeling bad about it?

Is there any danger? Yeah, you say that almost as though I might have got

through to you a little bit. No, you didn't get through to me, but you keep

grinding away.

You view things through what you see.

And those things, the scripture says, are temporal.

They are going to fade away.

God is infinitely wise and powerful and omniscient.

Which he is.

He could bring a soldier up to heaven if he felt like it. Listen to you. This

nation thinks that they are all powerful, almighty, and those young men

women fighting for this country... But you think that about your church, too,

don't you? You're right. We do have power, and the power comes from our God.

We have all the power, and you stay tuned, because shortly you're going to

him coming through the clouds and executing judgment on these people. But

it possible... You can see with your eyes that it is. ...that his funeral is

for... for a good man and a righteous and a nice person who doesn't deserve to

have his funeral picketed. Not a chance, poopy pants.

All right.

I'll speak with him.

Oh,

wicked land of Sodomite. At the funeral, I decided to

break away from the picket and go inside the memorial home.

to see the mourners firsthand.

He was doing what he wanted to do.

And I have to honor that as much as I'm going to miss him, and I don't think

it's fair.

But he was doing what he believed and what he wanted. Craig wanted to go in

Army when he first got out of high school, so he did what he wanted to do.

did.

We just have to carry out his memory and his honor through other soldiers and

help other families.

Seeing the mourners up close brought home the reality of the grief.

But I realized I'd got as far as I could with Shirley.

Put someone to the flesh, Louis. It's taking you to hell.

Try as I might, nothing I said made any impact on her belief.

Back in Topeka.

And while we'd been away...

a local Episcopalian church and regular target of pickets had caught fire.

For the Phelps, it was another sign of God's judgment and a reason to rejoice.

You want to get a sign, Louis?

For me to hold? I don't think I can do that. Yeah.

I was nearing the end of my time in the group, though I'd made no headway with

Shirley, I wondered if I'd fare better with my fellow documentary maker, Steve

Drain.

But listen, can I tell you, you know, now that I've come to the end of my time

here, are you curious to hear my thoughts a little bit? I'd love to hear

thoughts. Go ahead. You know, I spent a little bit of time with the pastor, and

I think maybe, I think he's got a lot of anger. I sense that there's a lot of

anger in there. Maybe he's a rageaholic, I don't know.

But that he, that perhaps this ministry is human -focused rather than God

-focused. Because I do know the Bible's a pretty long book. I haven't read all

of it. But if you pick and choose efficiently enough, you can find

justification for almost any kind of behavior.

When I say God hates fags, okay, that's not the whole message that we have.

But that's the front burner issue. That's the elephant in the room that

else is willing to talk about.

I'll sit down and have... That's not the only piece of evidence that I would

adduce in favor of my argument. Now, I'd also say that the whole idea that...

We, the Westboro Baptist Church, the 75 or 70 of us that are here, are the only

ones who are going to heaven. Everyone else is hell bound. If there were

somebody else out there who was preaching the unvarnished word of God

to cover, we would have heard about them. When you read the New Testament,

get the sense from Jesus Christ that he was...

Kind of like a gentle spirit. If he did come back... He'd be holding a sign.

That he came back in the spirit of the Lamb rather than the line that they talk

about. I'm trying to tell you right now that... He must be picketed by the

Westboro Baptist Church. I'm trying to tell you right now. I seriously believe

that. I'm trying to... Well, you are seriously deluded.

I'm preaching what the Bible says. You're preaching what your dark heart

I'm willing to talk with you, but you're just being silly and specious.

I'm not being silly. Of course you are. Of course you are. You want to drive

back? I'm not being silly. I don't think you have the truth. I think you're

running away from the truth.

What you're doing is you're just trying to turn yourself into God.

by saying things ought to be this way. Things ought to be thus and such.

You are the one who has the God complex, Louis, not me.

But I don't claim absolute truth, which is something you do. I don't claim it of

myself. The idea that you can sort of pick and choose among, oh, well, these

people are elect, so we're nice to them. But we're not really going to be nice

to those other ones. Have you ever seen me be mean to a person? I'm not talking

about you specifically, Steve. I'm talking about the church.

I am the church. I'm one of the members. Did you rejoice yesterday when that

church burned down, the Episcopalian church?

You're supposed to rejoice over all of God's judgment. And do you rejoice when

soldiers die in Iraq? Absolutely I do. Do you rejoice when people are knocked

over by cars and they get cancer? Absolutely. I love it. And I can tell

right now because it's the righteous judgment of God Almighty.

My time among the hate mongers of the Westboro Baptist Church was done.

I'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world.

But I'd been surprised to find that the members of the church are also paying a

price themselves.

Shut off from the world, they preach a hatred that is reflected back at them,

confirming them in their beliefs, and ultimately denying the right to a normal

life to their youngest members.

Are we going to go in my car? Yeah. Okay.

Mom?

They're here and they want to go somewhere to get a drink, like a coffee

Yeah, maybe like... No.

She said no.

Okay.

We have coffee in our house.

Okay, maybe we should have a coffee here. Would that be all right?

How come we couldn't go out and get coffee? I don't know. She said no.

How's it going?

Good.

Most 21 -year -olds, they wanted to go out for coffee.

They would be able to do that without their parents' permission.

That's true.

But I'm special.

I listen to what my parents say.

I respect my parents.

Do you think it's possible that you are kind of grappling with more than

the other women here?

No. What are you talking about? I don't know. I just sense there's a little bit

more inattention in you.

Inattention? Yeah, a little bit. Oh, no.

You know, people who watch this will be thinking, you know, there's a very nice,

charming, attractive young woman and it would be nice to see her maybe kind of

opening her mind a little bit and moving out into the world and maybe thinking

of... in a few years of settling down and starting a family.

Why does everybody have to get married?

Well, no one has to, but... But why shouldn't everybody have the choice?

I have the choice.

Well, you kind of do and you don't. It seems it's so inculcated in you that the

outside world is this devilish, satanic place that, as you said yourself,

there's really no one for you.

Yeah. Who would?

even want to marry someone that serves God.

I don't sort of blame you for being born into a situation that was outside your

control. And I can also see that you're coming to a time in your life where you

might start to question some of those things.

That time has come and gone.

I've already reached the age where I've made the decision what I want to do in

this life.

Do you have a rebellious...

A few years.

Um, Louie, if I ever was rebellious, do you think I would tell you about it?

I'm ashamed of any nonsense that I've ever done.

We started picketing when I was first grade.

Six years old.

So people have been treating me the way that you see us being treated now since

I was that young. So, I mean, people didn't treat me right.

What did they do?

Well, nobody wanted to talk to me, really, at school.

And they were shamed to be around me.

You know that sense of being ostracized.

If you preach that the world is hateful and full of condemned sinners, then

the world will start to take that shape.

Well, it's very simple.

We read the scriptures and we tell people what the standard is.

We don't do violence to people.

We warn them that their sins are taking them to hell. We do a

courteous, loving thing to them.

That's courteous and loving.

And they hate us and they beat on us.

And they don't want anything to do with us.

They're just downright mean to us sometimes, you know.

What did we do to them? Nothing but a courtesy.

That's quite a weird kind of courtesy.

How is it weird?

Going to funerals and waving those placards.

We preach the living. We warn them.

That's what we're doing.

Are you afraid of going to hell?

I fear the wrath of God.

I fear going to hell.

But I certainly hope I won't go there.

I think you laughed at the idea of me in hell because maybe it made you feel

like you weren't going to hell.

I laughed at the thought of you going to hell because I know you, Louie, and

you're a scoffer and a mocker.

And it gives me pleasure to know that...

The Lord will vindicate his people and he will glorify his own name. Because

that's what this is about.

The glorifying God.

Oh.

That's why I smile.

Hey, come on. I haven't scoffed at you.

Okay, get up to my picket.

You should obey.

Did you do it for me?

Yeah, I'm going to let you have it so you can carry it around, so you can know

all the rules of obeying God.

Don't kill people.

Don't marry two people.

Don't lie.

I think everyone lies.

Some in their life. Maybe when they're a kid.

Don't act like a snake.

Well, especially Louis does.

Actually, all of these Louis does.

What does that mean, act like a snake?

Can't remember.

Hey, you've been saying, don't act like a snake. No, Noah, don't say that.

You've been saying, act like a snake. No, you clarified for him.

Yeah.

Don't act like a snake, and then says, don't be sneaky.

Yeah. He was clarifying for you already.

Yeah.