1
00:00:15,059 --> 00:00:18,860
For several days I'd been living among
the members of the Westboro Baptist

2
00:00:18,860 --> 00:00:25,820
Church, a fire and brimstone Christian
group made up almost entirely

3
00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:27,160
of a single family.

4
00:00:42,090 --> 00:00:45,910
Since the Iraq war, they've become
infamous for picketing the funerals of

5
00:00:45,910 --> 00:00:51,150
soldiers as a protest against an America
that tolerates homosexuality. America

6
00:00:51,150 --> 00:00:52,150
is doomed.

7
00:00:52,590 --> 00:00:54,130
God hates fags.

8
00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:56,010
Are you a homosexual?

9
00:00:56,630 --> 00:01:01,030
Are you or not? We're servants of the
living God, hon. Where does it matter

10
00:01:01,030 --> 00:01:02,030
where we came from?

11
00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:06,310
The Westboro Baptist Church is probably
the most controversial church in

12
00:01:06,310 --> 00:01:09,630
America. Hush up, hush up, and obey your
God!

13
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,120
And for three weeks, I'd be trying to
fathom why they'd created such a strange

14
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,300
ministry. What was that one?

15
00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:18,840
Is this in the Bible?

16
00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:21,520
That's a fat ton.

17
00:01:42,860 --> 00:01:46,260
The church is situated in a suburb of
Topeka, Kansas.

18
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:52,420
Its pastor is the family patriarch, Fred
Phelps, also known as Gramps.

19
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,140
Hi there. You must be Shirley.

20
00:01:57,340 --> 00:01:58,279
Yes. I'm Louis.

21
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,880
Hi, Louis. How do you do? But in the
last few years, the day -to -day

22
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,500
have been run by the pastor's daughter,
Shirley, a lawyer and mother to 11

23
00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:11,020
children. So where are we? This is an
office area, would we say? Yes.

24
00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:16,770
So these are your signs. You've got God
hates fags here.

25
00:02:17,050 --> 00:02:21,450
Uh -huh. And God hates you. Just don't
think of fags as just those guys who are

26
00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:22,810
taking it up the tailpipe.

27
00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:28,450
Think of it as people who are involved
in some perverted sex act. And I'm

28
00:02:28,450 --> 00:02:33,850
talking about anything other than one
man, one woman in their marriage bed.

29
00:02:34,450 --> 00:02:39,470
So beneath that, are there gradations of
iniquity, as it were?

30
00:02:39,950 --> 00:02:45,530
If you see a nation or a people who have
risen up with one voice to say that

31
00:02:45,530 --> 00:02:50,010
it's okay to be gay, you're looking at a
doomed people. Those people have

32
00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:54,910
crossed the line. When you say gay
pride, you obviously have given over any

33
00:02:54,910 --> 00:02:58,690
trace or any notion that you're going to
admit that you're sinning. You

34
00:02:58,690 --> 00:03:02,250
understand that, don't you? It's okay to
be gay. It's an innocent alternate

35
00:03:02,250 --> 00:03:03,730
lifestyle. That's what I believe.

36
00:03:04,130 --> 00:03:07,170
Well, then you can't say, then you
believe that it's not a sin.

37
00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:14,620
Yes. And so you condemn yourself because
by your words are you justified, and by

38
00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:15,820
your words are you condemned.

39
00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:19,920
But am I right in thinking, though, that
Jesus actually wasn't a big thing for

40
00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:24,120
him? He had other priorities rather than
homosexuality. And it's not one of the

41
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,300
Ten Commandments, is it?

42
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,980
Yes. Which one? Thou shalt not commit
adultery.

43
00:03:29,260 --> 00:03:33,920
That's not being gay. It's cheating on
someone. The streets of this nation are

44
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,160
full of married men having fag sex.

45
00:03:37,950 --> 00:03:38,990
That's adultery.

46
00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:44,310
So don't try to pretend that you don't
come under the umbrella of adultery just

47
00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:45,710
because you're a fat.

48
00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:47,890
Hi, guys.

49
00:03:47,970 --> 00:03:49,570
Hi. Hi.

50
00:03:49,770 --> 00:03:50,770
Gabriel.

51
00:03:51,190 --> 00:03:52,190
How do you do?

52
00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:55,450
Go put yourself away in gray. How do you
do? Gray.

53
00:03:56,050 --> 00:04:02,810
For the last few years, the church has
taken its

54
00:04:02,810 --> 00:04:04,130
message of God's hate.

55
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,520
to the funerals of soldiers killed in
Iraq and Afghanistan, reasoning that

56
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,780
were struck down by God for fighting for
a depraved and doomed nation.

57
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,740
So what is the plan today?

58
00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:25,160
The plan is that we'll get out here and
put these signs in the air. At the

59
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,860
funeral? You can call it that, but what
they're doing here is they're

60
00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:29,860
worshipping the dead.

61
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,040
You said you do research into the
soldiers that have died?

62
00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:37,260
He was a staff sergeant, Kevin Ziegler,
and he died of an IED.

63
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,840
That's a... Rose -eyed bomb.

64
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,520
Right, an improvised explosive device.

65
00:04:42,820 --> 00:04:47,480
Exactly. It says his family was told
that he and another soldier died while

66
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,840
trying to disable the explosive.

67
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,500
He was 31.

68
00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:57,780
Do you think it's possible that by
getting in people's faces in this way,

69
00:04:57,780 --> 00:04:59,600
more likely to put people off?

70
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,960
the word of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

71
00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:05,580
Have you thought about that just in
terms of human psychology?

72
00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:11,800
You think our job is to win souls to
Christ. All we do by getting in their

73
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,920
and putting these signs in front of them
and these plain words is make what was

74
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,580
already in their heart come out of their
mouth.

75
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:19,920
What do you really think?

76
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,620
This is what I really think.

77
00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:26,800
No, but you do, I mean, but you
actually, there's a part of you that

78
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,040
think that. No, there's not any part of
me.

79
00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,480
The commandment has gone forth.

80
00:05:31,780 --> 00:05:36,000
Why go down there? America is doomed.
Because we are the evil angels.

81
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,580
Evil angels? Exactly. And it's not
because we're evil people, but because

82
00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:45,640
bringing to you the message of the evil
that God has determined upon you. And

83
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,780
once we have delivered this message... I
thought God didn't do evil.

84
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,220
Oh, my goodness.

85
00:05:50,740 --> 00:05:52,760
Come on, guys. Let's get out of here.
Let's bail.

86
00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:58,280
This is our corner. Come on, little
boys.

87
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,440
Zach, you hop in in case he wants you to
stay. So I'm going to keep a little bit

88
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,600
of a distance because I'm not part of
the picket. That's okay. You know what I

89
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:07,600
mean? Sure.

90
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,380
I'm just here as a journalist.

91
00:06:09,780 --> 00:06:10,780
Yes.

92
00:06:10,940 --> 00:06:11,940
Surely. Yes.

93
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,660
Today's picket was at an intersection
near a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

94
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,640
Among the picketers was the pastor's
wife, though of the pastor himself there

95
00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:24,640
was no sign.

96
00:06:25,930 --> 00:06:31,550
Like many states across America,
Missouri has established strict

97
00:06:31,550 --> 00:06:36,350
an attempt to limit the Phelps' contact
with the bereaved, and I was relieved to

98
00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:40,050
see how far from the funeral the church
members were required to be.

99
00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:04,310
the devil.

100
00:07:05,910 --> 00:07:07,170
And you're going home.

101
00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:11,990
You know, I don't agree with the
lifestyle. I don't. You do. Yes, you do.

102
00:07:11,990 --> 00:07:16,670
yes, you do. You love fags. You hate
God. So just shut up.

103
00:07:17,470 --> 00:07:21,310
What was he talking about? He's talking
about, I don't agree with fags. You

104
00:07:21,310 --> 00:07:23,190
know, Kate, Sarah, Sarah.

105
00:07:24,210 --> 00:07:28,690
You think you can fix this with that?
You think you're going to change God?

106
00:07:29,090 --> 00:07:31,450
You know why you're there, you fucking
bitch?

107
00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:33,310
Because you.

108
00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:44,650
We're out here 25 minutes or so, but so
far the reaction has been, I'd say,

109
00:07:44,770 --> 00:07:47,210
approximately 100 % negative.

110
00:07:47,670 --> 00:07:48,670
Would you agree?

111
00:07:48,870 --> 00:07:49,870
Yeah, I would agree.

112
00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:52,150
Do you think maybe there's another way
of delivering the message?

113
00:07:52,630 --> 00:07:56,590
Maybe like a letter of consolation to
the family of the soldier? Well, we send

114
00:07:56,590 --> 00:07:58,910
letters all the time, but not
consolation.

115
00:07:59,450 --> 00:08:03,250
You angered the Lord your God, and now
he's cursed your family.

116
00:08:03,630 --> 00:08:07,270
There's no consolation there. They're
not going to have any consolation.

117
00:08:07,970 --> 00:08:11,850
As a picket today, how would you rate
this out of ten? How many marks out of

118
00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:12,850
ten?

119
00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:14,090
They're all ten.

120
00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:18,510
All of them. Jacob, would you say ten
out of ten as well?

121
00:08:18,830 --> 00:08:19,830
Jacob? Yeah.

122
00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:21,150
God did it.

123
00:08:21,690 --> 00:08:22,690
Therefore, it's perfect.

124
00:08:23,030 --> 00:08:25,910
Does everything get ten out of ten then?
Everything that happens? Yeah.

125
00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:31,050
Everything. Everything. Thank God for
all of his judgments. Not one word falls

126
00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:32,049
to the ground.

127
00:08:32,150 --> 00:08:33,150
Yeah.

128
00:08:35,690 --> 00:08:36,750
A little later...

129
00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:41,580
Shirley and I regrouped at the family
homestead, where most of the 70 or so

130
00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:42,659
churchgoers live.

131
00:08:44,460 --> 00:08:49,240
So this is the centre of the
headquarters right here, isn't it?

132
00:08:50,020 --> 00:08:52,460
You can call it that. What would you
call it?

133
00:08:52,740 --> 00:08:54,440
I'd call it my backyard.

134
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,940
But it's also the backyards of all these
other houses.

135
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,040
Well, there's actually real lines of
demarcation.

136
00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,100
Just because we took the fences down so
it would be a nice place to raise all

137
00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,240
these children. You don't live
communally with the other members of the

138
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,300
then? No, no, no.

139
00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:13,880
And where does Pastor Phelps, the big
man, the patriarch, where does he live?

140
00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:16,140
He lives on that second floor.

141
00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:17,680
Up there.

142
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,500
You understand, in that building you've
got the house part kind of to this side

143
00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:24,440
and you've got the church part to that
side.

144
00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:27,360
Have you ever wondered whether you might
be part of a cult?

145
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,920
What exactly do you have to be to
qualify as a cult?

146
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:36,420
Well, basically, isn't it? It's like a
fringe religious group that exercises an

147
00:09:36,420 --> 00:09:38,800
inordinate amount of control over its
membership.

148
00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:41,360
You have to have certain other things
also.

149
00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:45,360
Brainwashing or... Yes, yes, and your
cult leader... A charismatic leader at

150
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,660
top, maybe like Fred Phelps, your
father, could qualify.

151
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,300
Look, hon, I don't care about all that
nonsense. I'm telling you...

152
00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:57,350
that we're the ones who are strictly
adhering to the doctrines of faith of

153
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:58,350
the mainline religions.

154
00:09:58,470 --> 00:09:59,990
They're not, we are.

155
00:10:02,590 --> 00:10:03,750
So what else you got?

156
00:10:06,290 --> 00:10:11,630
To help her run the ministry, Shirley
relies on her two eldest daughters,

157
00:10:11,630 --> 00:10:12,630
and Becca.

158
00:10:14,210 --> 00:10:18,050
I don't see any posters of pop bands.

159
00:10:18,930 --> 00:10:21,450
Can we look in your closet?

160
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,080
I guess you can.

161
00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:24,440
But you have quite a lot of clothes.

162
00:10:25,340 --> 00:10:27,100
Yeah, pretty much.

163
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,740
Are there rules about what you can and
can't wear?

164
00:10:30,140 --> 00:10:33,800
Modesty. Our parents don't have to tell
us. We know what we can and can't wear.

165
00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:36,800
Because we'll feel ashamed the other
way. Because we know what's appropriate.

166
00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:38,760
How do the girls at your school dress?

167
00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:40,820
One word.

168
00:10:41,660 --> 00:10:43,040
Whore. You agree?

169
00:10:43,260 --> 00:10:44,900
Mm -hmm. Same way. Yeah.

170
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:48,490
And what do the other people at your
school think of you?

171
00:10:48,690 --> 00:10:52,710
They hate us, but we're really nice.
We're nice to everyone. Why do they hate

172
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:54,790
you? Because they hate the message.

173
00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:58,630
Because we tell them they're going to
hell. We tell them plainly that you

174
00:10:58,630 --> 00:11:01,190
live the way you're living and expect to
go to heaven when you die.

175
00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:03,030
Should we do the next room?

176
00:11:03,310 --> 00:11:04,310
Yeah.

177
00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:09,910
So basically your circle of friends is
mainly or exclusively...

178
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,740
limited to people who are part of this
church. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Do

179
00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:17,740
have any friends who are outside this
group?

180
00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,900
Nobody that we consider a true friend,
because friendship with the world is

181
00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:22,859
enmity with God.

182
00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:27,420
May I ask if you've had boyfriends,
either of you? No, we haven't. Why not?

183
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:30,920
Because that's not what we're about in
this life. We're not about serving

184
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:36,720
ourselves. An invitation that's not
needed and takes up time that we just

185
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:37,720
have.

186
00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:43,200
When you come on with a lot of the stuff
about the Bible, some people might

187
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,460
think you come off a tiny bit arrogant.

188
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,940
If they're offended by the judgments
that we make, that we make according to

189
00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:54,760
God's standard, then that is a clear
indication that they hate God's Word,

190
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,580
obviously, and that they're headed for
hell.

191
00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:06,720
We're marching, we're marching, we are
marching, Lord.

192
00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:15,750
We're marching, we're marching to Zion,
Lord.

193
00:12:17,510 --> 00:12:21,590
We're marching to Zion.

194
00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:26,570
The end of my first day at the church,
and during a choir practice, I had a

195
00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:27,570
moment to reflect.

196
00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:33,970
We're marching to Zion, the beautiful
city of God.

197
00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:37,930
I felt I'd been bombarded with religious
rhetoric.

198
00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:41,740
and that it was preventing me from
getting to know the church members as

199
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:50,640
With the girls especially, I sensed
there was another side to their story,

200
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:51,940
was curious to know more.

201
00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:23,930
The next day, and I was on my way to see
Jael Phelps, niece to Shirley, cousin

202
00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:27,550
to Megan and Becca, and in her day job,
a nurse in training.

203
00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:32,650
It would be a chance to meet another of
the younger women, and also to ask about

204
00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:37,070
some of the family members who were no
longer in the church, having run off or

205
00:13:37,070 --> 00:13:38,070
been excluded.

206
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:42,950
Hi. How are you doing?

207
00:13:43,210 --> 00:13:44,470
Good. Can we come in? Uh -huh.

208
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,680
Can you show us around a little bit?

209
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,500
This is the computer study area.

210
00:13:49,940 --> 00:13:54,080
This is a picture of all the girls in
the church when they were younger.

211
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:54,959
my grandma.

212
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:55,960
Let's see that.

213
00:13:56,260 --> 00:13:57,600
Who's that? That's Kathy.

214
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,200
She's gone now.

215
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,580
Yes. And who's that?

216
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,640
This is Betty. This is Fred Jr.'s wife.

217
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:05,020
This is my Aunt Liz.

218
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:06,980
This is Doc.

219
00:14:07,780 --> 00:14:09,200
She's gone. Right.

220
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:10,760
This is Becky.

221
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:16,030
That's my grandma. This is her daughter,
Sharon, who's also gone.

222
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:18,250
Is everyone else going to stay, do you
think?

223
00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:20,290
Who? Everybody else? Yeah.

224
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:22,250
Yeah? As far as we know.

225
00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:25,350
I think so. You're going to stay?

226
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:28,090
I'm going to stay, yes. Do you like it?
I love it.

227
00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:33,450
Do you? Yes, I do. I really do. As far
as you're concerned, those people that

228
00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:35,850
have gone away, are they going to hell?

229
00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:39,240
What if you don't believe in the Bible?

230
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:40,860
Well, then you're going to hell.

231
00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:44,280
So I'm going to hell?

232
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,240
Yes, Louie, you are. You're going to
hell.

233
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:50,160
You are.

234
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,500
Anyways, this is my room.

235
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:55,880
Ta -da!

236
00:14:58,100 --> 00:14:59,100
There's pictures everywhere.

237
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,560
And then what is this one? Oh, you like
it?

238
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:02,800
Yeah.

239
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,540
The wrath of God is revealed from
heaven. It's awesome.

240
00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:09,660
Do you think that's what it might look
like when, you know what I mean,

241
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:10,700
Scripture is fulfilled?

242
00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:15,040
That kind of thing, and other similar
things, natural disasters, it's going to

243
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,920
get more and worse, and it's going to be
so awesome.

244
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,900
Has there ever been a time when you felt
tempted?

245
00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:25,080
I don't want to talk about that.

246
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,400
I don't think it's appropriate. I'm not
going to dwell on anything

247
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,060
inappropriate, if I can possibly help
it.

248
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,660
I'll take that as a yes.

249
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,480
I'm not going to answer that question.

250
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:44,180
We're going to seek that which is good
and abhor that which is evil.

251
00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:49,560
That's why we're not going to dwell and
tell you about every single sin that we

252
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,100
ever did in our lives.

253
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,920
It's not sinful to get married, is it?
And if you wanted to do that, then how

254
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:57,920
you do that?

255
00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:00,110
Well, first of all, I don't think that's
ever going to happen.

256
00:16:00,410 --> 00:16:02,170
Why wouldn't that happen? Are you
kidding me?

257
00:16:02,370 --> 00:16:03,370
Are you kidding me?

258
00:16:04,010 --> 00:16:07,030
Because I'm J .L. Phelps and I serve
God. That's why.

259
00:16:08,270 --> 00:16:09,270
That's why.

260
00:16:09,930 --> 00:16:14,650
And I'm not going to go seeking after
that because it's foolishness.

261
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:16,870
Your father, Jonathan, he got married.

262
00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:21,190
He did. Your grandfather, Gramps, he got
married. They really did. Shirley got

263
00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:23,370
married. And so why should you be any
different?

264
00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:24,710
Well, Louis.

265
00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:29,730
We're living in the last of the last
days. Time is very short.

266
00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:34,370
Times are very different than what they
were 15 years ago.

267
00:16:34,570 --> 00:16:36,850
There could, but I'm not going to plan
it.

268
00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:39,730
And I'm not going to seek after it.

269
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:42,190
I'm not going to dwell on it.

270
00:16:43,510 --> 00:16:44,630
It's not my interest.

271
00:16:45,150 --> 00:16:46,550
It's not my focus.

272
00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:54,910
I'm a dumb young girl, but I'm not that
dumb and goofy to go, it's so silly.

273
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,900
I'm not going to talk. I don't want to
talk about it anymore.

274
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:00,040
Okay?

275
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,720
So, I don't want to go there.

276
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,619
That afternoon, I had an appointment to
see Steve Drain.

277
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,060
He was unusual in not having been born
into the group.

278
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,079
Hey. Hey, how's it going, guys? Are you
Steve?

279
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:20,179
I am.

280
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:21,180
How are you doing?

281
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,280
I'm doing good.

282
00:17:22,619 --> 00:17:23,559
I'm Louis.

283
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:24,159
Hi Louis.

284
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,980
Nice to meet you. As part of his service
to the church, Steve handles online

285
00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:32,000
media and is an all -round helper to the
man he now calls Gramps.

286
00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:33,980
So what would you like to show me?

287
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,680
You want to see how we make signs? The
famous signs, the controversial signs.

288
00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:42,860
But in his old life, I'd heard he and I
had something in common.

289
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,500
Is it true that you first came here as a
documentary filmmaker?

290
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,720
Yeah. So you brought your family here
all the way from Florida?

291
00:17:52,540 --> 00:17:56,340
And are you glad you did that?
Absolutely. It's the only thing that I,

292
00:17:56,340 --> 00:17:58,840
end of the day, can say that I'm really,
really glad that I did.

293
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,700
Really? Mm -hmm.

294
00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:05,780
Is Gramps a disciple of God? Anybody who
has a sincere message, an ambassador

295
00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:09,700
from God, preaching a sincere message of
God, is a prophet.

296
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:13,760
Gramps is a prophet, as are all of these
other people around about here.

297
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:18,780
So these are some of the ones, these are
ones, some of these are kind of random,

298
00:18:18,820 --> 00:18:21,520
aren't they? Well, they're not random.
This one.

299
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:25,570
Liz Taylor?

300
00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:27,030
Of course she's a fag lover.

301
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:28,550
Of course she is.

302
00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:31,590
And Desmond Tutu? How do you choose?

303
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:36,570
He can't help but lie about the
scripture every single time he opens his

304
00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:40,170
How do you choose who you're going to
make the signs about? Well, look,

305
00:18:40,170 --> 00:18:42,450
no logic here. Actually, there's plenty
of logic.

306
00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:47,830
Anybody who's in the news, who supports
the filthy fag agenda.

307
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,820
We're going to make a sign about it. Did
you feel this way about homosexuality

308
00:18:51,820 --> 00:18:52,920
before you came here?

309
00:18:53,140 --> 00:18:56,860
No, of course not. What was your
feeling? I was the smartest man in the

310
00:18:56,860 --> 00:19:00,660
embraced the philosophy of
libertarianism. I was a genius.

311
00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:03,480
It's okay to be gay. I was a genius.

312
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,380
Look at this.

313
00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:07,260
That's a little offensive.

314
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:12,880
People in Britain consider her an icon.

315
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:18,320
She split hell wide open when she died.
She's a fag enabler and she'll be in

316
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,880
hell for all of eternity.

317
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,179
You know why?

318
00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:24,780
Are we talking about Princess Diana? I
can't believe my ears. Oh my goodness

319
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:25,780
gracious.

320
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,400
In addition to the funeral pickets, the
church also does a multitude of local

321
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,880
pickets of churches and other targets
chosen by the pastor.

322
00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:41,600
So where are we actually?

323
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,320
going to now?

324
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,500
We're going to a ticket here at the Jew
Church.

325
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,180
The... What did you say?

326
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,400
The Jew Church.

327
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:55,000
That sounds a little anti -Semitic when
you say the Jew Church. These people

328
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:01,560
hate God. They worship the rectum. The
rectum? That sounds insane when you say

329
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,099
that. It does?

330
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:06,160
Yeah. They worship that which they
desire. That makes them feel good.

331
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,080
It's an expression of the flesh.

332
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,520
It's a metaphor?

333
00:20:09,620 --> 00:20:10,840
Of course it is.

334
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,620
Idolatry, fornication, all manner of
sexual perversion go hand in hand,

335
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,480
They all go hand in hand. We're talking
about callous defiance against God

336
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,660
Almighty. Jesus killed Christ.

337
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,820
You're going to try to say they worship
the same God as I worship?

338
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,040
They killed Christ.

339
00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:31,160
Newsflash, Frania. Christ was Jewish.

340
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,320
What I'm trying to tell you, Brainiac,
is Christ was God.

341
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:38,940
They were living in a Jewish area, so of
course the Jewish people were involved,

342
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,760
but a lot of them weren't involved. They
were involved?

343
00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:45,440
What do you mean they were involved? The
Romans did it, not the Jews. Their

344
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,400
crucifixion, the Jews did it. They live
in callous defiance of the scripture.

345
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,620
And I've got to warn them about it,
Louis.

346
00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:57,710
It's my unction. Cry aloud. Fair not.
Lift up thy voice like a trumpet. Show

347
00:20:57,710 --> 00:20:58,790
people their transgression.

348
00:20:59,030 --> 00:21:00,290
You see these wonderful signs.

349
00:21:00,530 --> 00:21:02,670
God hates fags. Temple Beth Sodom.

350
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:07,510
Jew fags. God is USA's terrorist. Look
at God hates America. These are

351
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:08,650
signs. Fag troops.

352
00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:11,970
America!

353
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:14,490
America!

354
00:21:15,790 --> 00:21:16,790
God show!

355
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,340
That evening, Steve had invited me to
drop in on a special taping of one of

356
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:41,120
church's online sermons.

357
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:42,620
Everything okay, Steve?

358
00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:49,160
Hinting that there might be an
opportunity to have my first face -to

359
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,160
Pastor Phelps.

360
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,720
Hey, everything okay?

361
00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:54,760
Yeah, everything's fine. Yeah, we just
wanted to make sure that we got our

362
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,040
technical difficulties straightened from
yesterday.

363
00:21:57,260 --> 00:21:58,079
Everything cool?

364
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,360
Yep. Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

365
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,880
Steve. Come on.

366
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,640
Where have you gone? Hello?

367
00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:07,940
Where are you?

368
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,780
Right here. All right. What's going on?

369
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,400
Yep, yep.

370
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,260
Why don't you go ahead and... Hi, guys.

371
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:17,460
How do you do?

372
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:19,960
I'm Louis.

373
00:22:20,030 --> 00:22:21,030
From the BBC.

374
00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:25,370
Yes. You must be Pastor Fred Phelps.
Yes. Very pleased to meet you. Glad to

375
00:22:25,370 --> 00:22:26,370
you, Lewis. What is happening?

376
00:22:26,650 --> 00:22:28,170
Pay attention.

377
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:29,430
Pay close attention.

378
00:22:31,930 --> 00:22:35,210
Billy Graham, hell -bound false prophet.

379
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:38,230
I've known Billy Graham more than 50
years.

380
00:22:38,850 --> 00:22:43,870
And, Billy, you are headed straight and
irreversibly for hell.

381
00:22:44,170 --> 00:22:48,890
You are a lying, money -grubbing
Armenian heretic.

382
00:22:49,450 --> 00:22:55,050
At 88, Graham will soon die and split
hell wide open.

383
00:22:56,130 --> 00:23:00,390
And Westboro Baptist Church will picket
your funeral.

384
00:23:01,350 --> 00:23:02,350
Amen.

385
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:04,490
Thanks, Graham. That was awesome.

386
00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:09,910
Okay, guys. What do you want? I mean,
you are basically the pastor of the

387
00:23:09,910 --> 00:23:16,390
and the paterfamilias of the whole
group. Didn't you see that newspaper

388
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:19,290
story down at the... Bottom of the
stairs.

389
00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:22,910
No, we were hoping Steve was going to
give us a little tour downstairs, and

390
00:23:22,910 --> 00:23:23,970
he was in such a rush.

391
00:23:24,270 --> 00:23:26,450
What was that all about? We've got a
schedule to keep.

392
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:30,190
You're here to shoot us. We're not here
to cater to you. We've got a schedule to

393
00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:31,089
keep.

394
00:23:31,090 --> 00:23:34,690
There's a pretty big family here. How
many children do you have?

395
00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:37,730
Don't bother me with that kind of silly
question.

396
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:42,170
Get to some stuff that I'm the only one
that can answer. Then we'll have a good

397
00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:44,850
interview here. In fact, were we
supposed to have an interview?

398
00:23:45,910 --> 00:23:46,910
You serpent.

399
00:23:49,780 --> 00:23:51,380
Can we have an interview?

400
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:52,619
Not now.

401
00:23:52,620 --> 00:23:53,159
Not now.

402
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,020
No, not now. And you were saying how
many children you have?

403
00:23:59,460 --> 00:24:01,500
Hey, guys, let's go on downstairs.

404
00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:06,440
Everybody in the civilized world knows
how many children I've got and how many

405
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,560
grandchildren and how many great
-grandchildren.

406
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:13,580
Is he stalling for time or what is it?
Shall we go downstairs?

407
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:15,760
Thank you for having us. Sure.

408
00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:17,100
Glad to see you guys.

409
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,060
There's the article he was talking
about.

410
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,960
Time magazine. Did that go okay?

411
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,019
Yeah, it went great.

412
00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:27,540
What is the big deal about asking how
many children? He probably would have

413
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:30,700
more time for you right there if you had
some kind of sincere and relevant

414
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:31,760
theological question.

415
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,340
But as far as... That was a sincere
question.

416
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:38,160
You can't fault me on that. I sincerely
was curious to know his answer to the

417
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,760
question, how many children do you have?
You already knew how many children he

418
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:41,739
has.

419
00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:45,150
Um... Yeah, but I wanted to know how
many he would say that he had, because I

420
00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:47,390
know that he had 13, but that four have
fallen away.

421
00:24:47,950 --> 00:24:51,690
Well, you know that he has 13, and that
four have fallen away.

422
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:55,630
There's your answer. But I was looking
for, I wanted to hear what he had to say

423
00:24:55,630 --> 00:24:57,390
about it. He told you what he had to say
on it.

424
00:24:57,610 --> 00:24:59,410
You want us to say it a certain way?

425
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:04,630
No, I just wanted to know how many he
would say. You have the guy who has, by

426
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:08,090
far, head and shoulders, more scriptural
knowledge.

427
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,080
Knowledge of the Bible, knowledge of the
moral realm, of anybody who's crawling

428
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,540
all over this earth like ants on a
banana, and you ask them some silly,

429
00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:18,780
question like that? Man,

430
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,600
you're wasting your opportunity, dude.

431
00:25:21,820 --> 00:25:22,840
That's all I've got to say.

432
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,060
The next day, and I joined Shirley as
she did her afternoon school run.

433
00:25:32,620 --> 00:25:33,840
Where are we going, Shirley?

434
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,600
We're going over here to pick up the
children.

435
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,540
By now I had sensed how impregnable the
beliefs of the church members are, and I

436
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:44,460
wanted to understand how that faith is
instilled in the children of the family.

437
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:49,500
And they go to normal schools? I'm
surprised they're not homeschooled in a

438
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:54,780
There's two reasons that we can't do
that. The first one is, I couldn't do

439
00:25:54,780 --> 00:25:55,780
job justice.

440
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,600
And the second is...

441
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,500
Because these children need to be in the
faces of the community because that is

442
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:03,500
part of our testimony.

443
00:26:03,740 --> 00:26:06,000
Do they sort of preach at school?

444
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,680
No. No. Only their presence, only their
walking ticket signs. They see these

445
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,740
kids and they think, God hates fags or
America's doomed or anything like that.

446
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,860
Do they have friends at the schools?

447
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,220
Well, they have friendly acquaintances.

448
00:26:22,780 --> 00:26:26,240
I don't know if you'd call them friends.
I don't know what really constitutes a

449
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,120
friend. And they can bring them home?

450
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,620
You think these kids are going to want
to come to our house?

451
00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:32,620
That's very nice.

452
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:34,660
Yeah. Where would that go?

453
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,400
Pretty quick, you're going to get into
the discussion.

454
00:26:38,540 --> 00:26:41,540
But on the other hand, that's how I met
my husband.

455
00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:43,640
He hung out with my brother.

456
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:45,880
Sounds like you haven't made up your own
mind.

457
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,020
I'm saying that when they turn up, when
they come around...

458
00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:52,690
They're welcome.

459
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:58,090
Could they bring girlfriends or
boyfriends home? I would not have my

460
00:26:58,090 --> 00:27:02,790
calling themselves dating anyone or
doing any activities that would remotely

461
00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:08,050
resemble what this generation calls
dating. To what end would they do that?

462
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:11,410
What would be the purpose?

463
00:27:12,030 --> 00:27:13,970
So they can fornicate? Fun.

464
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:16,810
Fun? Is that equal fornicating?

465
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,160
But not necessarily.

466
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,640
Well, what does it equal?

467
00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:21,860
What does it equal?

468
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:22,900
Having fun.

469
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,680
Having fun. Holding hands.

470
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,920
Holding hands.

471
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,120
No. Sending little notes to each other.

472
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,340
Just what? So you can teach them how to
fornicate later?

473
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,900
So they can learn early? You've already
got fornication on the brain. I know,

474
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:41,100
and that's because that's what this
generation is all about.

475
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:42,580
Fornicating.

476
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:49,570
One of the pickets that afternoon was
outside a hardware store that sells

477
00:27:49,570 --> 00:27:51,310
Swedish vacuum cleaners.

478
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:57,950
Apparently, Swedish authorities
imprisoned a local pastor for preaching

479
00:27:57,950 --> 00:28:01,770
homosexuality, which was enough to make
the whole nation a target.

480
00:28:03,790 --> 00:28:08,050
I'd seen some of the youngest members of
the Klan holding placards, and I

481
00:28:08,050 --> 00:28:10,490
wondered how much of the message they
actually understood.

482
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:15,130
How old are you, Shirley?

483
00:28:15,980 --> 00:28:16,980
Seven. Seven.

484
00:28:17,220 --> 00:28:18,700
Do you know what the sign means?

485
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,680
No.

486
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:22,960
No.

487
00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:26,760
Shirley, she doesn't know what it means.

488
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:34,640
Bag, troop, flag, symbol, they're all
idols

489
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,000
that this nation worships above God.

490
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:42,120
Does that help you at all, or have I
said a lot of words that were too big?

491
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,520
Maybe she's just out here making up
numbers, you know, because she doesn't

492
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,500
really get it. Noah, do you know what
fag troops are?

493
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:54,560
Yeah. What?

494
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,640
It's this nation of these fags.

495
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,220
It's the nation of fags.

496
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,020
That's what fag troops mean.

497
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:07,220
It is a nation of fags, that's right.
Wait, wait, wait, you're not going to

498
00:29:07,220 --> 00:29:08,900
him get away with that, are you? No, I'm
not going to.

499
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:10,680
Fag soldiers!

500
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,460
Okay, fag soldiers.

501
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:15,440
I'm sort of glad that they don't
understand it better.

502
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,860
Well, you understand.

503
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,480
Noah, do you know what else you could be
besides a fag to be in trouble with God

504
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,100
and be included in that sign?

505
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,640
If you're not just a fag, but what else?
A fraud.

506
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,760
Um, Swedish yen.

507
00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:41,390
And, um, soldiers and... But what are
you? you if you're not a practicing fag

508
00:29:41,390 --> 00:29:47,430
what are you and what if you support
fags what does that make you you're a

509
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:53,690
you could say you're what you're really
doing is grooming him into the weird

510
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:57,390
behavior that is characteristic of your
group i mean if you want to explain your

511
00:29:57,390 --> 00:30:01,390
moral outlook to him you could do that
in a classroom are you calling our

512
00:30:01,390 --> 00:30:06,260
service to our god weird behavior is
that what you just did Yes. You don't

513
00:30:06,260 --> 00:30:10,440
to call our service to God weird and
thereby make it so.

514
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,780
Your statement doesn't make it right,
doesn't make it a fact.

515
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,820
The world calls it weird.

516
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,800
I don't care what the world, yes, and
the world hates us. Hello.

517
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,640
The next morning I was with Megan.

518
00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:33,850
Phelps' family members are expected to
hold down mainstream jobs and give 10 %

519
00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:35,250
of their income to the church.

520
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:39,430
Many work as lawyers, and Megan was
hoping to follow in that tradition.

521
00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:40,950
So where are we going?

522
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:44,430
We are going to Washburn University.

523
00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:47,190
That's the university you go to?

524
00:30:47,410 --> 00:30:48,410
Yes, it is.

525
00:30:48,810 --> 00:30:49,810
It's lovely.

526
00:30:49,890 --> 00:30:50,890
Good stuff.

527
00:30:51,090 --> 00:30:54,190
Totally. Do you want to be a lawyer as
well then?

528
00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:56,830
Yes, I do. Like so many of your aunts
and uncles?

529
00:30:57,210 --> 00:31:00,850
Yeah, I'm the only one in my generation
that wants to be a lawyer.

530
00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:06,970
By now, the church members had learned a
little about my life, and they knew

531
00:31:06,970 --> 00:31:11,870
that I'd had a child with my partner out
of wedlock, a detail which seemed to

532
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:13,250
put me in the firing line.

533
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:15,230
Do you like going to the pickets?

534
00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:17,070
Yeah. Are you kidding?

535
00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:22,070
It must get kind of old, though. You
don't get tired of all the sins,

536
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:26,710
your sins and your lust. Do I? I say you
don't. Don't I? Because you keep doing

537
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:28,930
it. Are you talking about me
specifically?

538
00:31:29,390 --> 00:31:32,750
You or everybody else. You don't get
tired of serving your lust. I don't get

539
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:33,750
tired of serving my God.

540
00:31:34,650 --> 00:31:38,790
So should I be killed for having
extramarital intercourse?

541
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:41,890
According to the Mosaic Code? Yeah.

542
00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:44,390
Actually, I'm not sure. I think so.

543
00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:46,370
I know what adultery is.

544
00:31:47,129 --> 00:31:49,050
Wow. And homosexuality was.

545
00:31:49,290 --> 00:31:50,630
You wouldn't feel any guilt for that.

546
00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:53,590
I want to tell you the truth.

547
00:31:53,850 --> 00:31:54,850
This is interesting.

548
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:58,930
This is actually where you go to
college, isn't it? You don't have any

549
00:31:58,930 --> 00:31:59,930
here? No.

550
00:32:00,270 --> 00:32:03,610
Really? I have acquaintances. You know,
people I go to school with. They're not

551
00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:06,010
my friends. Do you have any
acquaintances that you like?

552
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:09,450
Any acquaintances? You mean like on a
humanistic level that are friendly?

553
00:32:09,770 --> 00:32:11,410
Yeah. Any guys?

554
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:13,230
Yes.

555
00:32:13,770 --> 00:32:15,030
What do you want me to say?

556
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,040
If you saw a guy in one of your classes
and you thought he seemed nice and had

557
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,360
potential or whatever, and he said, you
know, do you want to get a coffee?

558
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,220
What would you do?

559
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:30,300
Actually, that has happened before. And
I said, no, I'm sorry, I'm busy.

560
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,080
Why? Because I have other things to do.

561
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,239
What was his name?

562
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,480
I don't even remember.

563
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,920
Yeah,

564
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,660
he was actually, yeah.

565
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:39,900
Why? Robert.

566
00:32:40,420 --> 00:32:41,420
Robert? Robert.

567
00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:43,580
I think.

568
00:32:43,740 --> 00:32:44,740
Is that someone you know?

569
00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:46,020
No.

570
00:32:46,170 --> 00:32:47,770
He looks like the guy that asked me out.

571
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:49,470
Sorry.

572
00:32:49,710 --> 00:32:51,290
It's kind of gooey, isn't it?

573
00:32:51,530 --> 00:32:56,930
Kind of gooey. But I know young women
sometimes think about these things. Most

574
00:32:56,930 --> 00:33:03,490
women also have a whole lot of lust and
fornication

575
00:33:03,490 --> 00:33:06,390
and do a whole lot of things that we
don't do.

576
00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:09,510
Why do you have to put it like that? Why
can't you say, make love?

577
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:14,070
Because you're trying to make it seem
like something that it isn't. That's not

578
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:15,910
what these people do. That's not what
you're doing.

579
00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:19,590
What do you mean? I'm sorry. Because
you're not married.

580
00:33:21,450 --> 00:33:22,730
Get married, see?

581
00:33:23,530 --> 00:33:27,130
You seriously wouldn't mind if you never
got married and you never experienced

582
00:33:27,130 --> 00:33:28,410
everything that represents?

583
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:31,870
No. It wouldn't bother you?

584
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:34,230
No. On a human level, it wouldn't.

585
00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:35,730
You think so?

586
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,940
It shakes it up a bit when there's more
than one.

587
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,920
And so my days at the church wore on.

588
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,060
As the time passed, I could feel myself
being absorbed into the family.

589
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:04,480
As hateful as they could be at the
picket, among themselves the

590
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,620
church members had made a life that in
many ways was quite appealing.

591
00:34:08,909 --> 00:34:12,210
almost as though their bond with each
other had been strengthened by the

592
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:13,909
hostility of the outside world.

593
00:34:17,570 --> 00:34:21,150
With the girls, I began to see a more
human side to their personalities.

594
00:34:23,170 --> 00:34:24,170
That's my friend!

595
00:34:25,370 --> 00:34:26,370
What did you say?

596
00:34:26,870 --> 00:34:30,370
I said, are you kidding me? Who is going
to marry us?

597
00:34:33,110 --> 00:34:36,330
And it was easy to become desensitized
to their message.

598
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,739
and how provocative it really is.

599
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,060
And that we all... See, they covered
their license plate.

600
00:34:47,540 --> 00:34:50,280
So I don't know what they were up to. Uh
-oh, did they hit somebody?

601
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,280
Is he okay?

602
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,280
Is he okay?

603
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,160
I'm sorry, hon.

604
00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:04,420
Well, and they had the license plate
down.

605
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,860
You all right, honey?

606
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:10,240
Hey, bud.

607
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Hey, bud. I'm sorry, hon.

608
00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:18,040
I knew they had to have done something.

609
00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:21,280
I am so sorry.

610
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,240
You want to go over here and talk to
your daddy?

611
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,120
I'm sorry.

612
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,300
Hey, hey, you want your sign?

613
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,640
Hey, let me wipe that off of you real
quick, okay?

614
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:32,500
I'm sorry.

615
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:33,620
Megan, can you?

616
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:37,400
They're such cowards. Who would hit a
child?

617
00:35:38,090 --> 00:35:39,090
Who would do that?

618
00:35:40,830 --> 00:35:44,430
It looks like here, Tim.

619
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:46,030
Do you see that?

620
00:35:46,530 --> 00:35:52,290
Do you see that color? That's what was
in that cup.

621
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:54,570
So it obviously got around on him.

622
00:35:55,790 --> 00:36:01,670
Seeing seven -year -old Elisha get hit
by a drink was a reminder that among the

623
00:36:01,670 --> 00:36:04,190
victims of the Phelps were their own
children.

624
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,220
It was Sunday, and I'd been invited
along to a church service.

625
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:17,340
It would be another chance to meet the
pastor and maybe have an interview.

626
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:18,940
Are the bags over there?

627
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:23,400
But first I had an appointment with jail
to help out with the chores around the

628
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,400
homestead.

629
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,200
Do you see much of Graham?

630
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:28,780
I spend time with him every Monday and
Tuesday.

631
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:30,920
Because I haven't seen that much of him.

632
00:36:31,780 --> 00:36:33,720
I think he's gotten kind of tired of you
guys.

633
00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:38,060
How can he be tired of it? Especially
you.

634
00:36:38,380 --> 00:36:39,980
Why? And you're impertinent questions.

635
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:46,020
He doesn't have much patience for people
asking a bunch of questions that aren't

636
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:47,720
relevant to the ministry.

637
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:53,380
You know, when we were at your house and
you said I was going to hell, and you

638
00:36:53,380 --> 00:36:54,740
found that quite funny. I did.

639
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,280
Why? Thinking on those things brings me
pleasure to think that the Lord will.

640
00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:05,770
vindicate his people and he will carry
out his wrath because he is perfect. It

641
00:37:05,770 --> 00:37:07,950
doesn't make me happy to think of you
burning in hell.

642
00:37:09,010 --> 00:37:11,370
Okay. Does that make me a better person
than you?

643
00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:13,450
No.

644
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:19,730
You know God because he sends the wicked
to hell and he saves the righteous.

645
00:37:21,150 --> 00:37:22,810
That's comforting to think on.

646
00:37:23,010 --> 00:37:25,470
Why couldn't you feel a bit sad that I
was going to hell?

647
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:27,890
Because it's according to God's will.

648
00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:30,450
So you have been rejoicing all his
judgments?

649
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:35,610
Exactly. That's a very good point. If
you got run over by a car, would your

650
00:37:35,610 --> 00:37:36,610
be pleased?

651
00:37:37,350 --> 00:37:42,990
If I got run over by a car, I would be
in hell. And my dad would probably be

652
00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:44,330
pleased. Really?

653
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:45,670
Really.

654
00:37:45,850 --> 00:37:46,788
I'm serious.

655
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:48,990
And we have to move on, so come on.
Jill, that's crazy.

656
00:37:49,930 --> 00:37:51,630
And you're thinking it's crazy.

657
00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:53,270
It's good. Okay, come on.

658
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,060
A little later, I joined the rest of the
church members in the family chapel for

659
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:13,940
my first experience of one of Gramps'
services.

660
00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:51,860
Is it true if I do something wrong, like
Gramps could go loco?

661
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:55,060
He won't go loco. He'll just tell you
not to do it.

662
00:38:55,260 --> 00:38:56,820
Would it be embarrassing for him?

663
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,020
No, it'd be embarrassing for you. Why?

664
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,060
Because there's just no experience quite
like it.

665
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:37,320
Same -sex marriage, by any name, civil
union or otherwise,

666
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:44,540
is the ultimate smash -mouth -in -your
-face insult to

667
00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:49,020
God Almighty. And you think he's going
to let England and America and the rest

668
00:39:49,020 --> 00:39:55,400
of this evil world get by with it? God
Almighty has not joined fags in holy

669
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,020
wedlock. God no longer keeps America
safe.

670
00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:01,020
America's doomed.

671
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,760
Getting the pants beat off of us.

672
00:40:04,940 --> 00:40:05,940
In Iraq.

673
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:07,600
In Afghanistan.

674
00:40:09,140 --> 00:40:11,260
God is now America's terrorist.

675
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:16,860
That's who Bush is fighting.

676
00:40:17,780 --> 00:40:24,520
That's the terrorist that he best be
afraid of. You tweaked his nose,

677
00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:25,620
you jackass.

678
00:40:26,660 --> 00:40:28,100
You tweaked his nose.

679
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,080
God put it in your wicked heart to start
that war.

680
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:38,860
That's the message we've got at the
funerals of these dead soldiers.

681
00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:46,560
God duped you into starting a war so he
could punish

682
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:52,260
you. And any preacher preaching it any
other way is a lying, hell -bound, false

683
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:53,260
prophet.

684
00:40:58,060 --> 00:41:04,840
It's almost 18 months now and the siege
has got people eating their babies and

685
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,420
their small children and each other.
You're going to eat your babies.

686
00:41:13,660 --> 00:41:17,100
God himself duped Bush into a no -win
war.

687
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:23,980
And he did that by the technique of
putting a lying spirit in the mouth

688
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:25,960
of all his trusted advisors.

689
00:41:27,980 --> 00:41:30,460
To punish America.

690
00:41:41,020 --> 00:41:44,080
You know, this shows that he's going to
make at least two million.

691
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,360
Look, that's our capital of war.

692
00:41:47,780 --> 00:41:48,940
At least two million.

693
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,920
Maybe three or four million.

694
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,180
Pastor, would there be five minutes for
a couple of questions?

695
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,260
Well, uh...

696
00:41:58,250 --> 00:41:59,650
Yeah, five minutes. Okay.

697
00:42:00,390 --> 00:42:04,310
You know, I was struck by your
preaching. You referred mainly to Old

698
00:42:04,410 --> 00:42:07,090
and it was almost as though you felt we
were living in a time of biblical

699
00:42:07,090 --> 00:42:08,090
prophecy.

700
00:42:08,570 --> 00:42:09,570
Was that accurate?

701
00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:14,230
No, it's not accurate. If you had just a
little knowledge of the Bible, you

702
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:17,830
would know that what you just said is
stupidity and spades.

703
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:21,230
I don't know how to deal with a question
like that.

704
00:42:21,550 --> 00:42:22,970
You're just too dumb.

705
00:42:23,210 --> 00:42:24,210
Sorry.

706
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:29,010
You've got the duty to know the Bible as
well as I do. Why?

707
00:42:29,470 --> 00:42:30,970
Because you're a human being.

708
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:35,230
God Almighty made you. And God Almighty
is going to send your ass to hell.

709
00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:40,070
Is it accurate to say that you regard
the Westboro Baptist Church as the only

710
00:42:40,070 --> 00:42:44,230
church that's giving biblical preaching
according to the word of God? Is this

711
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:45,230
three minutes up?

712
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:47,310
No. The answer to your question is yes.

713
00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:48,610
No, it was five minutes.

714
00:42:49,050 --> 00:42:50,870
Well, but I already talked to them.

715
00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:52,730
So there's three left.

716
00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:57,800
Do you believe the Westboro Baptist
Church and your preaching is the only

717
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,200
preaching that is according to the word
of God as far as you know?

718
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,340
Asked and answered. Next question.

719
00:43:02,740 --> 00:43:03,740
Okay.

720
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,700
As far as you're concerned, are the
people of this church the only ones now

721
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:10,920
living that will make it to the kingdom
of heaven?

722
00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:12,800
Asked and answered. Next question.

723
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,520
Is there something you'd like me to ask?

724
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,840
Nope. I didn't even want to talk to you.

725
00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:20,480
I didn't even want to let you in.

726
00:43:21,130 --> 00:43:24,270
You know, isn't it an act of presumption
a little bit on your part that when you

727
00:43:24,270 --> 00:43:28,330
don't have all the information about all
the other churches, to assume that you

728
00:43:28,330 --> 00:43:30,570
have a privileged access to grace?

729
00:43:30,970 --> 00:43:32,750
Oh, I know all this and know about them.

730
00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:34,210
How?

731
00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:40,350
I'm not going to keep talking to you.
Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you

732
00:43:40,350 --> 00:43:42,870
wasted an opportunity and they're
probably going to fire you?

733
00:43:43,110 --> 00:43:46,730
You don't know anything about me,
Pastor. Yeah, I do. I know all this and

734
00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:50,590
about you. You're just an evil... I
don't want to go there.

735
00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:54,900
Okay, now this is about 15 minutes.
Okay, thank you very much for your time.

736
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,760
It's nice to see you, and good luck to
you.

737
00:43:58,680 --> 00:43:59,680
Okay, guys.

738
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:02,460
Did you come to tell us some stuff,
Izzy?

739
00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:06,440
God hates fags.

740
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,800
God hates fag enablers.

741
00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:12,900
Therefore, God hates America and all of
her military.

742
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,920
Any abominable, disgraceful, filthy
conduct that you think of to engage in,

743
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,880
do it and you're proud of it. Quit
worshipping the flag, dummy. It can't

744
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:24,880
you.

745
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,540
I'd sensed a deep wellspring of anger in
Gramps and I suspected that this was

746
00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:46,520
the basis for his church's ministry.

747
00:44:51,620 --> 00:44:56,260
His skewed interpretation of the Bible
had been handed on to his children and

748
00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:58,160
was now being broadcast to the world.

749
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,780
The Phelps had no interest in winning
souls to Christ.

750
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,880
In their world, being hated was proof
that they were doing the right thing.

751
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,840
As part of their ever -expanding effort
to reach into every corner of America,

752
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,660
the church had decided to picket a
soldier's funeral several hundred miles

753
00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:23,740
on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie,
Illinois.

754
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:30,320
For one last time, I joined them.

755
00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:34,140
So you're flying all the way to
Illinois?

756
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,520
Yes. Or however many there are of you,
just to picket this...

757
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Dead soldier's funeral?

758
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,020
That's right. For 45 minutes? Yep.

759
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:44,980
Is it really worth it?

760
00:45:45,220 --> 00:45:46,220
Yeah.

761
00:45:46,460 --> 00:45:50,700
Look, hon, they get the message. You see
what it's created all around this

762
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:51,700
nation.

763
00:45:52,580 --> 00:45:53,580
Good morning.

764
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:56,060
I'm going to sit in the second row.

765
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:57,900
Somebody else is already there.

766
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,000
Where am I supposed to sit?

767
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:07,640
So how much would you say the church
spends in an average year on flights?

768
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:08,999
A lot.

769
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,000
How much?

770
00:46:10,020 --> 00:46:12,860
In the $200 ,000 range.

771
00:46:13,180 --> 00:46:17,280
Really? $200 ,000. So that's more than
maybe £100 ,000?

772
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:21,420
Yeah, I don't know what the ratio is.
Just to go and spread hate? No, to go

773
00:46:21,420 --> 00:46:22,420
preach the gospel.

774
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,920
Hate? God's hate? I didn't say your
hate.

775
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:27,760
That's very scriptural, what I said.

776
00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:29,780
Well, actually, that's true.

777
00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:35,440
His unit was supposed to end its service
in Iraq in August.

778
00:46:36,010 --> 00:46:39,990
But one day before Wojtek was scheduled
to leave, he got news that it would be

779
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:40,990
sent to Baghdad.

780
00:46:41,630 --> 00:46:45,790
He told his family he would be home in
November instead, and last week his

781
00:46:45,790 --> 00:46:49,270
mother mailed him his cell phone so he
would be able to call.

782
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:56,330
Wojtek, 26, died two days before
Halloween, shot in the neck by

783
00:46:56,330 --> 00:46:58,970
during a raid on a house near Baghdad.

784
00:46:59,690 --> 00:47:02,890
In addition to his mother, Wojtek is
survived by his father.

785
00:47:03,790 --> 00:47:06,730
Rick Goodkey, a brother, Christopher,
and grandparents.

786
00:47:07,310 --> 00:47:08,770
Doesn't that make you sad, though?

787
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:15,350
It's very sad that these people won't
get the message. All they have to do is

788
00:47:15,350 --> 00:47:18,570
obey their God and they'll stop the
pain.

789
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:21,630
But they're not going to. That's so
abstract, though, because... It's not

790
00:47:21,630 --> 00:47:25,350
abstract. The truth is we don't really
know anything more than this article

791
00:47:25,350 --> 00:47:26,670
tells us about...

792
00:47:26,970 --> 00:47:29,990
Craig Wojtek, now you take it as that's
dramatic. No, we know two things.

793
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:34,610
Because he's been killed, therefore he
was doing something sinful.

794
00:47:34,830 --> 00:47:39,510
I know that he was fighting for a nation
who has made God their enemy. But you

795
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:43,890
don't think there's any good people out
there in the military? This is all very

796
00:47:43,890 --> 00:47:47,570
plain and very simple, and you are not
going to make me feel bad about this,

797
00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:49,170
because I did not do that.

798
00:47:49,590 --> 00:47:51,450
I'm doing this, though, to help them.

799
00:47:51,730 --> 00:47:54,290
Is there any danger of you feeling bad
about it?

800
00:47:56,190 --> 00:47:58,930
Is there any danger? Yeah, you say that
almost as though I might have got

801
00:47:58,930 --> 00:48:02,170
through to you a little bit. No, you
didn't get through to me, but you keep

802
00:48:02,170 --> 00:48:03,170
grinding away.

803
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:06,150
You view things through what you see.

804
00:48:06,570 --> 00:48:09,490
And those things, the scripture says,
are temporal.

805
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:10,970
They are going to fade away.

806
00:48:11,310 --> 00:48:14,450
God is infinitely wise and powerful and
omniscient.

807
00:48:14,670 --> 00:48:15,670
Which he is.

808
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:21,080
He could bring a soldier up to heaven if
he felt like it. Listen to you. This

809
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,620
nation thinks that they are all
powerful, almighty, and those young men

810
00:48:26,620 --> 00:48:29,200
women fighting for this country... But
you think that about your church, too,

811
00:48:29,260 --> 00:48:33,780
don't you? You're right. We do have
power, and the power comes from our God.

812
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,420
We have all the power, and you stay
tuned, because shortly you're going to

813
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:41,980
him coming through the clouds and
executing judgment on these people. But

814
00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:45,300
it possible... You can see with your
eyes that it is. ...that his funeral is

815
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:51,460
for... for a good man and a righteous
and a nice person who doesn't deserve to

816
00:48:51,460 --> 00:48:55,920
have his funeral picketed. Not a chance,
poopy pants.

817
00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:58,420
All right.

818
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:00,360
I'll speak with him.

819
00:49:02,260 --> 00:49:03,260
Oh,

820
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:11,840
wicked land of Sodomite. At the funeral,
I decided to

821
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,740
break away from the picket and go inside
the memorial home.

822
00:49:15,150 --> 00:49:16,630
to see the mourners firsthand.

823
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:20,510
He was doing what he wanted to do.

824
00:49:22,850 --> 00:49:26,470
And I have to honor that as much as I'm
going to miss him, and I don't think

825
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:27,470
it's fair.

826
00:49:29,050 --> 00:49:34,810
But he was doing what he believed and
what he wanted. Craig wanted to go in

827
00:49:34,810 --> 00:49:40,050
Army when he first got out of high
school, so he did what he wanted to do.

828
00:49:40,050 --> 00:49:41,050
did.

829
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,900
We just have to carry out his memory and
his honor through other soldiers and

830
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:51,040
help other families.

831
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,700
Seeing the mourners up close brought
home the reality of the grief.

832
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:37,240
But I realized I'd got as far as I could
with Shirley.

833
00:50:38,020 --> 00:50:40,660
Put someone to the flesh, Louis. It's
taking you to hell.

834
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,580
Try as I might, nothing I said made any
impact on her belief.

835
00:50:53,860 --> 00:50:55,040
Back in Topeka.

836
00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:57,100
And while we'd been away...

837
00:50:57,310 --> 00:51:02,050
a local Episcopalian church and regular
target of pickets had caught fire.

838
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:07,990
For the Phelps, it was another sign of
God's judgment and a reason to rejoice.

839
00:51:10,670 --> 00:51:11,930
You want to get a sign, Louis?

840
00:51:12,530 --> 00:51:15,110
For me to hold? I don't think I can do
that. Yeah.

841
00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:19,930
I was nearing the end of my time in the
group, though I'd made no headway with

842
00:51:19,930 --> 00:51:24,730
Shirley, I wondered if I'd fare better
with my fellow documentary maker, Steve

843
00:51:24,730 --> 00:51:25,730
Drain.

844
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,700
But listen, can I tell you, you know,
now that I've come to the end of my time

845
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:33,100
here, are you curious to hear my
thoughts a little bit? I'd love to hear

846
00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:36,380
thoughts. Go ahead. You know, I spent a
little bit of time with the pastor, and

847
00:51:36,380 --> 00:51:40,360
I think maybe, I think he's got a lot of
anger. I sense that there's a lot of

848
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,700
anger in there. Maybe he's a rageaholic,
I don't know.

849
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:48,260
But that he, that perhaps this ministry
is human -focused rather than God

850
00:51:48,260 --> 00:51:51,700
-focused. Because I do know the Bible's
a pretty long book. I haven't read all

851
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:55,340
of it. But if you pick and choose
efficiently enough, you can find

852
00:51:55,340 --> 00:51:57,540
justification for almost any kind of
behavior.

853
00:51:57,780 --> 00:52:03,060
When I say God hates fags, okay, that's
not the whole message that we have.

854
00:52:03,260 --> 00:52:06,780
But that's the front burner issue.
That's the elephant in the room that

855
00:52:06,780 --> 00:52:08,160
else is willing to talk about.

856
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,640
I'll sit down and have... That's not the
only piece of evidence that I would

857
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,120
adduce in favor of my argument. Now, I'd
also say that the whole idea that...

858
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:19,540
We, the Westboro Baptist Church, the 75
or 70 of us that are here, are the only

859
00:52:19,540 --> 00:52:22,620
ones who are going to heaven. Everyone
else is hell bound. If there were

860
00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:27,700
somebody else out there who was
preaching the unvarnished word of God

861
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:31,760
to cover, we would have heard about
them. When you read the New Testament,

862
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,740
get the sense from Jesus Christ that he
was...

863
00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:38,370
Kind of like a gentle spirit. If he did
come back... He'd be holding a sign.

864
00:52:38,570 --> 00:52:42,190
That he came back in the spirit of the
Lamb rather than the line that they talk

865
00:52:42,190 --> 00:52:44,830
about. I'm trying to tell you right now
that... He must be picketed by the

866
00:52:44,830 --> 00:52:47,510
Westboro Baptist Church. I'm trying to
tell you right now. I seriously believe

867
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:50,410
that. I'm trying to... Well, you are
seriously deluded.

868
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:55,150
I'm preaching what the Bible says.
You're preaching what your dark heart

869
00:52:55,330 --> 00:52:59,170
I'm willing to talk with you, but you're
just being silly and specious.

870
00:52:59,410 --> 00:53:02,490
I'm not being silly. Of course you are.
Of course you are. You want to drive

871
00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:06,470
back? I'm not being silly. I don't think
you have the truth. I think you're

872
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:07,890
running away from the truth.

873
00:53:10,050 --> 00:53:13,550
What you're doing is you're just trying
to turn yourself into God.

874
00:53:13,930 --> 00:53:17,330
by saying things ought to be this way.
Things ought to be thus and such.

875
00:53:17,710 --> 00:53:21,010
You are the one who has the God complex,
Louis, not me.

876
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:24,890
But I don't claim absolute truth, which
is something you do. I don't claim it of

877
00:53:24,890 --> 00:53:28,650
myself. The idea that you can sort of
pick and choose among, oh, well, these

878
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:31,950
people are elect, so we're nice to them.
But we're not really going to be nice

879
00:53:31,950 --> 00:53:35,170
to those other ones. Have you ever seen
me be mean to a person? I'm not talking

880
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:36,670
about you specifically, Steve. I'm
talking about the church.

881
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:40,870
I am the church. I'm one of the members.
Did you rejoice yesterday when that

882
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:42,970
church burned down, the Episcopalian
church?

883
00:53:43,210 --> 00:53:47,650
You're supposed to rejoice over all of
God's judgment. And do you rejoice when

884
00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:52,190
soldiers die in Iraq? Absolutely I do.
Do you rejoice when people are knocked

885
00:53:52,190 --> 00:53:56,450
over by cars and they get cancer?
Absolutely. I love it. And I can tell

886
00:53:56,450 --> 00:53:59,470
right now because it's the righteous
judgment of God Almighty.

887
00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:09,330
My time among the hate mongers of the
Westboro Baptist Church was done.

888
00:54:11,890 --> 00:54:16,070
I'd expected to meet a group that causes
pain to people in the outside world.

889
00:54:17,550 --> 00:54:21,390
But I'd been surprised to find that the
members of the church are also paying a

890
00:54:21,390 --> 00:54:22,390
price themselves.

891
00:54:23,690 --> 00:54:27,570
Shut off from the world, they preach a
hatred that is reflected back at them,

892
00:54:27,690 --> 00:54:32,950
confirming them in their beliefs, and
ultimately denying the right to a normal

893
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:34,630
life to their youngest members.

894
00:54:35,110 --> 00:54:37,130
Are we going to go in my car? Yeah.
Okay.

895
00:54:39,210 --> 00:54:40,210
Mom?

896
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,400
They're here and they want to go
somewhere to get a drink, like a coffee

897
00:54:44,780 --> 00:54:46,120
Yeah, maybe like... No.

898
00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:47,540
She said no.

899
00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:49,260
Okay.

900
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,100
We have coffee in our house.

901
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:55,840
Okay, maybe we should have a coffee
here. Would that be all right?

902
00:54:56,300 --> 00:54:59,240
How come we couldn't go out and get
coffee? I don't know. She said no.

903
00:54:59,740 --> 00:55:00,740
How's it going?

904
00:55:00,820 --> 00:55:01,820
Good.

905
00:55:05,060 --> 00:55:08,120
Most 21 -year -olds, they wanted to go
out for coffee.

906
00:55:08,670 --> 00:55:11,770
They would be able to do that without
their parents' permission.

907
00:55:12,210 --> 00:55:13,210
That's true.

908
00:55:14,690 --> 00:55:15,690
But I'm special.

909
00:55:17,830 --> 00:55:19,850
I listen to what my parents say.

910
00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:21,870
I respect my parents.

911
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:28,430
Do you think it's possible that you are
kind of grappling with more than

912
00:55:28,430 --> 00:55:30,730
the other women here?

913
00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:35,520
No. What are you talking about? I don't
know. I just sense there's a little bit

914
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,560
more inattention in you.

915
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:40,560
Inattention? Yeah, a little bit. Oh, no.

916
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:47,280
You know, people who watch this will be
thinking, you know, there's a very nice,

917
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:54,100
charming, attractive young woman and it
would be nice to see her maybe kind of

918
00:55:54,100 --> 00:55:59,560
opening her mind a little bit and moving
out into the world and maybe thinking

919
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,530
of... in a few years of settling down
and starting a family.

920
00:56:03,530 --> 00:56:05,430
Why does everybody have to get married?

921
00:56:05,630 --> 00:56:09,830
Well, no one has to, but... But why
shouldn't everybody have the choice?

922
00:56:11,590 --> 00:56:12,610
I have the choice.

923
00:56:12,830 --> 00:56:17,750
Well, you kind of do and you don't. It
seems it's so inculcated in you that the

924
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:23,230
outside world is this devilish, satanic
place that, as you said yourself,

925
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:25,110
there's really no one for you.

926
00:56:26,910 --> 00:56:28,650
Yeah. Who would?

927
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,420
even want to marry someone that serves
God.

928
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,320
I don't sort of blame you for being born
into a situation that was outside your

929
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:45,080
control. And I can also see that you're
coming to a time in your life where you

930
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,180
might start to question some of those
things.

931
00:56:48,020 --> 00:56:49,700
That time has come and gone.

932
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:55,980
I've already reached the age where I've
made the decision what I want to do in

933
00:56:55,980 --> 00:56:56,678
this life.

934
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:57,940
Do you have a rebellious...

935
00:56:58,410 --> 00:56:59,410
A few years.

936
00:56:59,690 --> 00:57:04,650
Um, Louie, if I ever was rebellious, do
you think I would tell you about it?

937
00:57:06,410 --> 00:57:09,850
I'm ashamed of any nonsense that I've
ever done.

938
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:15,270
We started picketing when I was first
grade.

939
00:57:15,650 --> 00:57:16,650
Six years old.

940
00:57:16,910 --> 00:57:23,630
So people have been treating me the way
that you see us being treated now since

941
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:26,790
I was that young. So, I mean, people
didn't treat me right.

942
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:28,400
What did they do?

943
00:57:29,140 --> 00:57:32,060
Well, nobody wanted to talk to me,
really, at school.

944
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,980
And they were shamed to be around me.

945
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,200
You know that sense of being ostracized.

946
00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:46,940
If you preach that the world is hateful
and full of condemned sinners, then

947
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:49,360
the world will start to take that shape.

948
00:57:50,900 --> 00:57:53,380
Well, it's very simple.

949
00:57:55,660 --> 00:58:00,360
We read the scriptures and we tell
people what the standard is.

950
00:58:01,460 --> 00:58:03,120
We don't do violence to people.

951
00:58:04,820 --> 00:58:11,280
We warn them that their sins are taking
them to hell. We do a

952
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,200
courteous, loving thing to them.

953
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,060
That's courteous and loving.

954
00:58:17,500 --> 00:58:23,600
And they hate us and they beat on us.

955
00:58:24,490 --> 00:58:26,410
And they don't want anything to do with
us.

956
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:30,090
They're just downright mean to us
sometimes, you know.

957
00:58:31,250 --> 00:58:33,970
What did we do to them? Nothing but a
courtesy.

958
00:58:36,310 --> 00:58:37,930
That's quite a weird kind of courtesy.

959
00:58:39,090 --> 00:58:40,090
How is it weird?

960
00:58:41,570 --> 00:58:44,550
Going to funerals and waving those
placards.

961
00:58:45,610 --> 00:58:48,030
We preach the living. We warn them.

962
00:58:48,450 --> 00:58:49,450
That's what we're doing.

963
00:58:51,310 --> 00:58:52,890
Are you afraid of going to hell?

964
00:58:55,089 --> 00:58:56,830
I fear the wrath of God.

965
00:58:57,430 --> 00:59:00,210
I fear going to hell.

966
00:59:01,370 --> 00:59:04,590
But I certainly hope I won't go there.

967
00:59:04,850 --> 00:59:10,050
I think you laughed at the idea of me in
hell because maybe it made you feel

968
00:59:10,050 --> 00:59:11,690
like you weren't going to hell.

969
00:59:13,070 --> 00:59:18,210
I laughed at the thought of you going to
hell because I know you, Louie, and

970
00:59:18,210 --> 00:59:19,430
you're a scoffer and a mocker.

971
00:59:20,010 --> 00:59:22,830
And it gives me pleasure to know that...

972
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:29,260
The Lord will vindicate his people and
he will glorify his own name. Because

973
00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:30,260
that's what this is about.

974
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,000
The glorifying God.

975
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Oh.

976
00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:37,060
That's why I smile.

977
00:59:37,620 --> 00:59:39,580
Hey, come on. I haven't scoffed at you.

978
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,020
Okay, get up to my picket.

979
00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:57,270
You should obey.

980
00:59:57,950 --> 00:59:59,170
Did you do it for me?

981
00:59:59,590 --> 01:00:04,190
Yeah, I'm going to let you have it so
you can carry it around, so you can know

982
01:00:04,190 --> 01:00:06,190
all the rules of obeying God.

983
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:07,870
Don't kill people.

984
01:00:08,250 --> 01:00:09,970
Don't marry two people.

985
01:00:10,210 --> 01:00:11,210
Don't lie.

986
01:00:11,890 --> 01:00:13,830
I think everyone lies.

987
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:17,630
Some in their life. Maybe when they're a
kid.

988
01:00:17,850 --> 01:00:20,390
Don't act like a snake.

989
01:00:20,890 --> 01:00:22,790
Well, especially Louis does.

990
01:00:23,790 --> 01:00:25,430
Actually, all of these Louis does.

991
01:00:26,250 --> 01:00:27,890
What does that mean, act like a snake?

992
01:00:28,550 --> 01:00:29,550
Can't remember.

993
01:00:31,310 --> 01:00:36,290
Hey, you've been saying, don't act like
a snake. No, Noah, don't say that.

994
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:40,230
You've been saying, act like a snake.
No, you clarified for him.

995
01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:41,610
Yeah.

996
01:00:41,810 --> 01:00:44,570
Don't act like a snake, and then says,
don't be sneaky.

997
01:00:44,890 --> 01:00:46,670
Yeah. He was clarifying for you already.

998
01:00:47,090 --> 01:00:48,090
Yeah.