Original subtitles

Coming up on the Age of Attraction reunion presented by the Vow Files.

How many couples are still together?

Raise your hands.

Looks like Pfeiffer's not here. Does anyone know where she is?

I don't really feel comfortable like airing this out. All right, well, that's

why we're here.

John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment?

What was it about, John? Speak the truth.

You took that from me.

I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit.

I don't want to cry.

If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hand.

You guys are, in fact, engaged.

I don't deserve to date someone who texts me, I feel disgusting with you.

No, it's not easy.

Libby, how'd you feel?

God, I expect to get emotional.

I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay.

Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those

difficult moments?

In my mind, you are literally like my husband. Like, there is nothing else.

I cried so hard.

An area that I've been weak.

She's able to help me get through. Has anyone had an issue with your age

difference? I almost didn't come out this week to L .A. You're like

a little bit here. I'm not gaslighting anyone, Teresa.

And it was really, really sad watching that back. It was. Guys, I'm just your

words, man.

You hear what I'm saying.

And I'll speak for you.

I never said that.

Four days in, I wanted to go home. Tell them how it is now.

Why are you laughing, Derek? That wasn't it at all. Well, shit. Like, that's

something that I probably needed to know.

You don't want to say anything?

I don't know.

No. You honestly didn't like Leah. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in

my life. Period. Have you met his daughters?

I have not.

Why? Yeah. Why not? And he was yelling from afar at y 'all to start?

No. Absolutely not.

How close was he? And you want to air all of our dirty laundry?

Let's do it. Is there a chance for you guys to get back together?

I'm not playing with y 'all today.

I don't remember our first conversation.

The one about Prince Eric.

Well, I mean, you kind of led with that.

Blown out. Do we need a shot?

Cheers, cheers.

Don't hold back. Don't hold back.

All right. We're going to start in five, four, three, two.

Welcome to the Age of Attraction Season 1 Reunion. I'm your host, Nick Viall.

And I'm Natalie Joy. We are so excited to be here with all of the cast of Age

Attraction to unpack all of the burning questions that you have been dying to

know. And we're not going to leave any gaps unexamined.

This is a show about regular people finding love outside the confines of

societal pressure and influence, and seeing if their commitment to each other

can survive in the real world. Some of our couples found that love was enough.

Others realized that their differences may be too much to handle.

This is the very first time the entire cast has reunited since filming, and

are here to give us all the tea about their experiences on the show and life

after committing or not.

Teresa, as a stylist, who's best dressed today?

There's only one answer.

Me. Me.

Yes, love it. I would say myself and then Janelle and then Libby and then...

Does anyone need some work?

Yeah. I mean, there's always room for improvement.

I can give you guys my rates later.

There we go. There we go.

John, how's the royal family?

Any drama to report?

No drama.

I'm still working on my accent, but I'll get back to you guys on that.

Without giving us the whole recipe, though, describe the potato recipe.

Like, what's the... Thinly sliced. Okay. Got to make them extra crispy. Okay. A

ton of extra sharp cheddar cheese. Okay.

And salt.

Okay. That's it. And we bake it in an oven at 450?

It's funny because we were baking in, what was it, Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Celsius. And...

I didn't know what the temperature was, and I thought I was going to burn the

whole place down, but how good was it? I mean, I think I was risking a heart

attack, but it was really good.

Libby, quick, which Spice Girl is Victoria Beckham?

Posh. Love.

Good job.

And there was no Googling done. I've just gotten enough feedback and

I don't even have to look anything up.

Andrew, you've gotten a haircut?

Uh -uh.

No, I haven't gotten a haircut.

New hair style.

And a little tan.

Where have you been?

Down in Florida.

Golfing.

Vanessa,

loving the pink. Loving the pink lipstick.

Fourth of July. Has it been coming around often?

Yeah, we celebrate Fourth of July at least once or twice a month when we come

visit each other.

Every time is a holiday.

It's coming along great.

Okay, hey, set the record straight right now with everybody in here and let them

know. Just let them know. He puts it down. It's good, it's good, it's good.

It's much better.

He is so curious.

It's crazy.

It is crazy.

Hey, her shit's fire. Why do you think I put a ring on it? Okay?

Okay. I can't help it.

We'll give you your moment. Logan, how are the optics today? The optics are

great.

I mean, I think I look good. What do you think?

You look great. Optics are good. Everybody looks good. Optics are great.

you're looking dapper as ever.

Thank you.

Any new tattoos?

I'm working on one. Okay. Yes, because, you know, I'm an addiction. You know.

Okay. Is it AOA?

You know, that's a good idea.

Put some AOA in a river right down my arm.

I think that would be good.

Hey, anything but a mountain.

Anything but a bear.

Oh, that was nice. You're looking stunning. Thank you so much. How are you

feeling? I feel okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Why are you nervous?

I don't know.

I'm just nervous.

You look great. Thank you. You're welcome.

Chris, why are you wearing sunglasses?

Celebrity.

It's bright in here. Okay. Don't you think?

Are you going to take a nap? Hide the eyes a little bit. Do you need to take a

nap? Yeah. Just in case I need to close my eyes while everything's going on in

here, you know? Okay.

You ready to get going? I don't want, you know, keep the, keep the.

Keep the emotions out of it for a second. Okay.

For a second. Derek, your skin is looking very smooth and shiny. Thank

Adding anything new? No. A lot of water.

Moisturizer. Always.

That's what y 'all love.

Water and staying out of the sun. Absolutely.

Allegedly. You go to the beach, you got to bring your umbrella. Umbrella with

some chairs and set it up. Done.

All day long.

All day long.

We got plans.

Leah, you've been flying anywhere recently?

No, I've been off.

You guys, I live a very flexible lifestyle.

That's a fact. But I do leave to New York on Sunday.

We love it. Well, we are very excited to have you all here. And I think let's

just start with the question I think everyone wants to know. By a show of

who are the couples that are still together?

Two, three. Two couples.

We've got Andrew and Libby.

Logan and Vanessa. I'll be honest, Logan and Vanessa, I didn't think you two had

it in you.

It is beautiful to see. Let me tell you, the show started after the show was

wrapped. That's when real life came in.

And that's where I wish people could have seen more of.

Love that. Well, John and Teresa, you guys committed.

Yeah.

We did.

Definitely did.

That was real.

I mean, I'm feeling... Good.

John and I are in a really good place. And I think we still have like I still

have some sort of questions that I would like some answers to.

But I think for the most part, like, you know, we we tried. It was, you know, a

combination of factors that led us to where we are today.

But, yeah, I mean, I'm happy with where we are today. I think we I think it's a

very good show.

of what we did have, the fact that we are really in a good place right now.

Well, we will certainly want to unpack everything that's happened since filming

and kind of really understand how we got to today a little bit later.

Logan, you so eloquently put it at some point in the season that the older

people come with a lot of baggage.

Eloquently.

But in fairness, there is some truth to that. And I think it's interesting

watching it back. Obviously, Natalie and I have an age difference.

And I think everyone who, like the Tresas, Vanessa, Leah, Andrew, Jorge,

I think all of us that were dating younger people, I think that's a very

relatable thing, right? And I think a lot about this show really came down to

you're someone who's lived some life.

you've had some relationship, you come in with some scars. When you're dating

someone younger, I know it was with Natalie, I think the big question is,

have you been through? Have you been through the ringer? Has your heart been

crushed as well?

When you're saying, I've been through a lot, does my partner understand?

Quite honestly, I think that's a big measuring stick.

It wasn't until I learned about Natalie's past, not that I was rooting

to have bad relationships, but the fact that she could relate.

I've been broken by another human being in past relationships. And if you're

dating someone who doesn't understand that, that can be a huge disconnect.

With that being said, I just want to open up to the group, starting with

You referenced a lot of times throughout the show some very difficult

relationships from your past.

At your comfort level, can you just give us a little bit of insight into some of

the things that you have been through?

And the impact that had on you as a person and how that helped or affected

in relationships specifically with John.

Yeah. You know, we can talk about things that break you from relationships and

then just life itself. Right. Because it comes in so many different forms. And

so I think John and I had talked about that. You know, he was really broken by

his.

disappointment in baseball and everything. And so I think that was

of could relate to that disappointment when you really are depending on

something, you really think something's going to happen for you. And then

without any control, it just falls apart and you're just broken by that.

For me, obviously, yeah, I've lived, you know, many, many lives in some ways.

And my relationships have been some good, some not so good.

I think from the very beginning, not to like take up too much time, but like,

you know, I had my brother pass away when I was 18. And that was my first

of like relationship that just broke without any expectation. It was very

sudden. And, you know, you get the rug pulled out from under you when you have

this like relationship that you're depending on and all of that. And so

number one.

And then, you know, just like.

relationships that I had after I got divorced that were you think you have

you really think like someone is being honest with you and then you come to

out that you know they're lying they're cheating they're just not in it for the

same reasons that you're in it and so yeah it's been it's been really hard to

get over those um before I came on the show I really did work on myself and

from a lot of those hurts and so I felt like you know I was in a really good

place to start.

looking for someone that could be my person. What about you, Vanessa?

You obviously came in very vulnerable talking about your four engagements.

Yes, my four LeBron rings that I had.

Yeah. So, I mean, I've had some trials. I was a single mom at 18 years old and I

had to work full time and go to college and take care of my daughter. And, you

know, I had some relationships and I really.

Kind of like a serial monogamous for a while. And I poured my heart into these

relationships and they didn't work out. And, you know, it was really

disappointing. But I don't want to let that like define me as who I am. You

know, I'm pretty resilient.

I've been really hurt, but I don't like to focus on that. And I want to look for

something new and something fresh. And I wanted to heal.

Were there parts while getting to know Logan that were there things you needed

to hear him say?

To make sure that he understood everything you've been through.

Yes. And, you know, that's what I think about, too, is a lot of times I was

taking like those past relationships and I was projecting them onto him. You

know, there's so many things watching it back and the things that I was saying.

And I was like, that had nothing to do with him. That was like my past, like

coming back to get me and, you know, insecurities about that sort of thing.

So, you know, he was the.

First one that really listened to me and we talked a lot. I mean, he knows more

about me than anyone else.

Even some of my girlfriends, you know, and the things that we talked about. And

that was just really important in us getting close and having intimacy on an

emotional level.

I'd like to touch on that just a little bit. I mean, back to the comment that

you made, you know, you didn't think we were going to work out. Nobody did. I

think anybody in the cast, you can ask everybody.

Because of the bickering, because of the arguments, a lot of people didn't think

we were going to make it. But that's why, you know, one of the things that

saw, and I just wasn't able to articulate my thoughts sometimes because

of those arguments and some of the things that happened on the show. I'm

was really, really trying to figure this woman out because I saw the essence of

this woman who had been broken but has gone through a path that, you know,

not going to talk about today.

I saw and heard the things that she's gone through and it led her to where she

is today.

You know, she's a business owner. She owns a house. She makes great money.

And I saw so much value in that and being able to get to pass those things

life. Because a lot of times people will go through situations in life and it

makes or breaks you. And what she has gone through, I wouldn't be able to do

So, and that's kind of where I fell in love with her.

I do want some clarification. You guys are?

in fact engaged we sure are i wasn't sure because will you do life with me is

will you marry me so i just wanted to make sure that was an absolute

so i think because he's young he doesn't know the right terminology you know he

forgot it's different for the young ones you know what i mean he's nervous but

like but i will say this i i watched them at the airport with no cameras and

watched logan say goodbye to vanessa it was beautiful

He literally, you know, I think he was at the window.

She was looking backwards.

You know what I'm saying? And I watched that because I think, Derek, we were

there. And so I was just like, you know what?

It was an honest connection. Yes, they were bickering. But once again, he was

fighting. They were fighting for each other.

And if you don't even see that, you don't have that. You know what I'm

It's empty.

So y 'all are.

So I wanted to say something about I think that a lot of times when we say.

maybe scars or trauma or relational baggage, I think there's a plus side

comes along with that too. And the plus side, I think, is experience and

knowledge. I think the experience and knowledge comes with it because I think

sometimes if you lose, don't lose the lesson. The mistakes you may make in one

relationship, you may take that forward and say, I'm not going to make that. I'm

going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more this.

And so I think that it's, I don't look at any relationship that anyone has as a

failure. It's a lesson.

And it's just moving on to find the perfect situation where you and a person

understand each other. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I

say, like, honestly, when it comes to my past relationships, I don't even

remember, like, the happy times. I remember the sad times, but the sad

aren't, like, I laugh at them now. They're things that we survived. I think

we are dating people who might be younger than us, when we hear things

I want to throw caution to the wind. I think sometimes that's the moment you

want to just make sure, yeah, let's throw caution to the wind. But like, you

know, do you know what you're throwing to the wind, so to speak? And I think

sometimes that's the thing I noticed with Teresa and Vanessa and Leah and

and those relationships and Andrew a little bit when you're like having those

conversations, but like, you know, are we, do we know what we're betting on

here? You know, it's like, let's get risky, but like, you know.

We just want to make sure. So, yeah, it's both a lesson, but we just want to

also understand that our partner can relate to us. We have more to risk in

ways because we've already, like, gotten ourselves to the point where, you know,

we've been hurt so many times. It's like the level of what you can tolerate is

lower, you know?

So, I don't know. You're kind of like, not again.

Yeah, exactly. You're trying to avoid the not again. Yeah, definitely.

How was it just watching it back for all you guys? I mean, obviously, being on

reality TV is a bit of an experience.

How's it been?

We're here.

Yeah,

I get to ick a little bit.

A little cringe for yourself?

For myself.

A little cringe.

Get over the cringe and we'll be okay.

I think it's a very vulnerable thing to watch yourself on television.

I'm a very hard critic.

So I've been very critical of myself.

It's not easy.

Libby, how do you feel?

I think I feel the same way. I'm definitely going to be critical of

start noticing things, everything about everything you've ever done. But I

remember being in that experience thinking whatever anybody had to say

way that I'm acting on this show, you don't know until you're experiencing it.

You don't know how you're going to act in front of cameras.

It's very much a weird environment where you don't have your phone. You're not

around your family. You're really isolated. And you're trying to explore a

connection with somebody. And that alone can be a scary experience.

But you're also trying to act yourself in front of the camera. And I think that

for me, those two things together were really hard. Totally valid.

Libby and Andrew left the retreat with a 16 -year age gap and a mutual love of

Taylor Swift in hopes that their love story would just say yes.

But with Andrew's daughters and Libby's bright future, it seemed like we might

have known their fate all too well. That is until Andrew learned what a hard

launch meant and decided to manifest it anyway. And they say age gap

relationships don't teach you anything.

Well, how has that been for you two?

It's been great. First of all, I just wanted to put it on the record that if

speaks to anything of how weird this experience is, my mother notified me

actually been to three.

Taylor Swift concerts. That's how delusional I was.

Well,

I want to work backwards a little bit.

You are one of the couples that's still together.

It was really fun watching you guys fall in love on this show. But how have you

gotten to this point still in a relationship? What's the thing or things

you think has made it work? I think that there's a lot that goes into being a

long distance relationship, an age gap relationship.

All the things that I think that you saw us really touch on the silly side of

things on the show. But behind that off camera or sometimes on, there were a lot

of deeper conversations that were had a lot of ways in which we realized that we

were compatible that I never expected.

And I really feel like he was able to meet me on the level that I was at and

could kind of.

mutually benefit from our relationship where I feel like I have things to learn

from him. He has things to learn from me. And I feel like that's been the

biggest thing for us is just being great communicators, being open about

everything. And honestly, I feel like I relate to him more in our relationship

than anybody I've dated that my age. And I think that he kind of feels the same

way. Well, I'm curious, Andrew.

I mean, I always talk about how in our relationship we are equals, you know,

we really live that where, you know, The power dynamic is not off.

I come to her with as many questions, looking for counsel, looking for advice

she does with me. I am curious, with Libby, what are some things that you

go to her on, and how has she been kind of just helpful with aspects of your

life outside of just getting Taylor Swift knowledge and things like that?

She actually has a lot of wisdom.

A lot of people, I don't think everyone in this room knows, I sold my business

at the end of last year. And it was a weird thing for me.

I'm 39 years old now. I'm kind of starting over. I'm in a transition

my life. And she's been amazing.

She's been there. There's been some days where I'm like, what am I doing with my

life? What's next?

And she's been that rock for me throughout this process.

And I don't think that, I almost didn't come out.

this week to LA. I was thinking about staying home. Um, and she was, you know,

there the entire time, like picking me up.

Um, so yeah.

Libby, have you felt the age difference much being outside of the bubble?

Honestly, no, I think I felt it way less than you would expect.

Um, I think the only times I feel it are all in refreshing ways. It's when I can

have an open conversation with somebody about my feelings when, um, It's when I

need advice from somebody else. A lot of different things come into play that I

never expected that are all good parts.

And honestly, I don't think anybody looks at us and is like, oh, these two

an age gap. You know what I mean? So I really forget the whole concept of this

show and the fact that there was a time where I was like, holy crap, this person

is 38 years old with teenage kids. I'm 22.

I forget that that whole thing happened because we never are like.

We're in an age gap.

Has anyone had an issue with your age difference, either online or in the

so to speak?

Yeah, so obviously online.

I think that something important to note about this experience is that we didn't

know each other's ages.

Obviously, I look younger than he is, but I think that he thought there was

people 25 and older. So I remember feeling bad. I felt like I age -fished

and I was like, I'm so sorry about that.

Well, so did Jorge, because he didn't know 60 -year -olds were there either.

Yeah.

I know, right?

I mean, I didn't like that comment either. By the way, Drew, I'm going to

you on that one. Like, oh, this dude's like ancient, man. I didn't know he was

here. He's my boy. But he's like Moses.

I think it's a compliment.

Like, you look great. You look great for a 60. You look great for Moses. You

look great for a 60. Right, right.

I like that. That underhanded compliment. Oh, yeah, you look great for

Moses. I didn't know he looked that way.

I think you age -fished everyone.

Thank you. From you, I'll take that. That's a compliment.

I'm curious, Libby and Andrew, what are any challenges that you guys have had to

work through over the past few months?

I would just say the whole long distance thing is a little bit of a challenge,

but I think we've both been really good about that. We have great communication.

We see each other a lot. And honestly, we haven't really had many problems in

our personal lives with people having things to say about our age dynamic.

Obviously, you're going to make assumptions if you know it, but I don't

brings me around as like, this is Libby.

We have a significant age gap. Do you see it? I think that his friends see me

for the person that I am and his family. And same with mine. They've been

incredibly accepting because they know me and they now know him. So I think

it's way easier to be like, okay, these are these two individuals and this is

their relationship.

Not like here's an age gap relationship.

And what does that mean? And also, like I was saying, it's important to note

that we didn't know each other's ages. Had he been 38 and approached me and

like, oh, you're 22. That's perfect.

I would have been like, red flag. And maybe he would have thought the same if

was like, hey, Mr.

38. Because it isn't normal for that to just be on the table and then move

forward. So I think that that would have stopped us in the real world. Well, are

y 'all planning on shortening the long distance?

Has there been conversations of what that might look like?

Yeah, that's the next step for our relationship is trying to figure out the

distance thing and then that. So you would move to Baltimore?

No. Oh.

We still don't know the answer.

Okay, we're still figuring it out. Is there a clear path?

We're thinking Florida and just split time. But at least I will split time

between Florida and Baltimore.

Okay. Well, Andrew, early on in the show, you said that you were used to

younger. They were fun. They were crazy.

Do you still feel that way?

Libby's not that crazy. I mean, she's not that crazy.

You know, some crazy comments from time to time, but she isn't. Crazy in the

best way. Yeah, in the best way. In the best possible way.

Fuck it.

But, no, she's really surprised me with her communication.

You know, doing the long -distance thing, I think, towards the end of the

I was, like, really nervous about that because communication in my past

relationships hadn't been that great. And that's living in the same city,

staying with each other, you know, multiple times, you know, throughout the

week. So I'm like, how is this?

going to work with her being on the West coast and me on the East coast. But I

think that's where our relationship has been so strong is our communication is

fantastic. Um, for someone that is 22, like she's a great 23 now.

She communicates great. We used to do that a lot too.

Every birthday, every number. I'm like, it's okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm actually a 23 .5. So, um, what'd you know about younger?

And by younger, I mean, they have me saying younger, younger, younger,

younger. The mother of my children, she's a brunette. She is older.

I'm 38 on the show, 39 now. If I date a 32 -year -old, she's younger. Like what

I have found, and this is, you know, like knock on anyone that's older here,

like any of the older women, what I have found dating closer to my age and in

the 40s is it's, you know, typically someone that's divorced, someone that

kids. And we all have deal breakers. We all have things that, you know, I've

always said that I didn't want to be with someone that has kids or someone

is divorced. And that's no knock on that at all. That's just like something for

me that I just haven't been open to. And maybe maybe some people will be upset

about that. But for me, that's just like one of those things. So what I do want

people to know is I didn't go searching for a 22 year old. We didn't know each

other's ages. And I very much thought.

And I don't know where, you know, I don't remember who told this to me, but

thought the age demographic on the show was 25 to 55.

Like I really did. My shock in, I think you can see that in the promise room,

like I'm thinking through and I'm like, who told me? Who lied to me?

And what were some of your biggest insecurities or fears about the idea

Libby was 22 and yet you were having feelings for her?

I mean, I just had this preconceived notion.

My past two relationships, I did date women that were in their 20s, and it

didn't work out.

So I'm like, okay, here we go again.

Are we going to be able to meet each other where the other person is in life?

Are we going to be able to communicate effectively?

I was just worried about that. I'm like, you know, I don't want to waste my

time. I'm getting older. I don't want to be in another relationship where we're

not going to be able to make it work, where we're not going to be able to

communicate, where we are at two different places in our lives. It's

think, you know, for some of us older people, you can agree, like the last

you want to do when you get up there a little bit in age is like waste your

on something that's not going to work.

Yeah. What is something about your relationship that you guys have found is

surprisingly easy?

the long distance like again i thought it was going to be much harder and i

like it's the healthiest relationship when it comes to communication really

actually like kind of all aspects of the relationship but so healthy when it

comes to communicating and i thought it was going to be much much more

challenging being you know in a long distance relationship i was genuinely

surprised just by every facet meaning

compatibility wise I don't think I've ever been with somebody who had just the

same outlook on every single thing as me the same goals the same like we see

everything in the same light and I don't think I've ever been in a relationship

or even had like friends that were that similar to me and I just remember we

were so eye to eye on everything and obviously I really liked him when we

in Whistler but when we moved in together I was like wait this is super

like we're doing all the same things we just even when it comes to you'll see

all my friends were like Libby it's not a roommate it's a relationship Which,

very true. But those things can be detrimental things to a relationship. I

we both like things a certain way. We're a little OCD.

And I don't think...

anybody in this experience anybody else in the world could have gotten me to the

place that we ended up because he was the only one to be like hey listen let's

let's be a little bit more serious I know there's something more to you

I've heard it and so you're safe to open up to me etc and I think that we're

both super lucky to have found somebody so like specifically perfect for the

other person and I just remember literally walking on Sunshine and

Butterflies being like, wait, is this what it's like to be with somebody who

actually compatible with you? Like, it was a crazy experience, honestly. Your

friends also suggested that he should get Botox. Have you?

Why,

though? Harsh.

He has nice skin.

He does.

I didn't say it.

She did. My Nina girl, my angel.

That's just our relationship.

Like she'll look at me and be like, why are you sitting like that? What are you

wearing? Whatever. And that's always warranted with me. Like, I love it. I'm

like, thank you so much. You're the best. That's true love to me. And also,

though she was super harsh, she protects me like, and she's very much a realist.

Um, so to me, that's a true friend to somebody who will clock you, maybe not

your mans and tell them that they need.

we have that problem with her too. Okay. It's not the first time she's gone off

to somebody like that.

But like we said, she had the headband on and she was ready to fight. And then

you see me go, Nina, we can't say that. Mike, Mike.

But yeah, that's, you know, that's sometimes we've all, we've all got that

friend, but she defends me with her chest and we love her.

Andrew, you mentioned on the show that you had some nerves about holding Libby

back, which is a feeling I really related to because obviously when

I got together,

basically Libby's age. And there's this kind of thought of like, yeah, we have a

great connection. You like me now, but are you going to feel the same way with

me in three or four years?

You know, we came to find that we were surprisingly kind of on the same path in

terms of like what we wanted for ourselves at the stages of life that we

in. I'm curious, how were you able to work through those insecurities and

And how have you and Libby kind of figured out the path that you guys are

I mean, I still have those fears, I think, from time to time. You know, for

I have two daughters. They're teenagers at this point.

I have went back and forth in my head, like, do I want more children?

I definitely do.

But I also think there's like a cutoff for me. I'm 39 years old. I don't know

I want to be having a baby at 46, 47.

So does our time frame in terms of like when she wants kids and, you know, where

I would be open to having kids, too. So I think that, you know.

Still something that that worries me a little bit. And I think I was even

worried about it towards the end of the show. They don't show it as much, but I

definitely was, you know, thinking back and forth, like, am I going to hold her

back? You know, what if she wants to take the next 10 years to really focus

her career?

And she's 33 and wants to have kids. And at that point, you know, I'm 49.

Dead.

I'm dead.

That's old.

Are you guys on the same page in terms of that timeline?

Have you guys talked about kids or what that looks like? Yeah, like I said in

the show,

I'm probably not the typical 23 -year -old where I just want to go create the

experience. There is that part of it, but there's also the part where, to me,

experiencing life is having a stable relationship with a person that's good

me and a family and being happy. To me, that's experiencing life. As far as kids

and everything is concerned, that was a big conversation and a big part of the

relationship. And I think you see me being like, oh, I like that he has kids,

whatever, but it doesn't really show my...

kind of excitement about that after I processed it. I was like, okay, I really

like that this person is a girl dad. It says a lot about him. It shows that he's

more mature. There's definitely a certain responsibility that comes along

kids. And sometimes when you're looking for a partner, you wonder, can this

person handle kids? Would this person be a good dad? And I was really refreshed

to see that I already saw that in him. And for me, that was a huge green flag.

And yeah, I think that we had to come to terms on the show with the fact that to

be with me would entail having more kids and being aligned on that timeline and

that was one of the big conversations that was really hard for me to hear his

reservations and his doubts about that because that's something that's super

important to me I've always wanted to be a mom but yeah honestly when I heard he

had kids it just made me take him more seriously and just see him as a better

candidate and I think we are aligned on the timeline meaning He can't wait

forever. And I've always wanted to be obviously not at this age a mom, but a

eventually. And probably sooner than later, my parents had me on the younger

side. They've been married for 30 years. They're an amazing example of what I

want in a relationship.

And so if I were to even have something that looks similar to that, I would be

super happy.

Well, we've wrapped filming almost a year ago -ish. Have you met his

I have not.

Okay. Why? Why not?

So we're trying to figure out the long distance thing first.

You know, the show, you're in a bubble. You know, it's all fun and games. You

know, you're enjoying life.

You're going to the pool midday on Monday.

It's a little bit different. Everything since then, too, has felt kind of like

the honeymoon phase for us. It's, you know, we see each other once a month and

we're in.

LA or we're in Florida or we're in Baltimore and we're enjoying ourselves

having fun. We haven't really been able to test our relationship in terms of

like spending significant amount of time together in the real world, doing our

day to day, getting up, going to the gym, going to work, coming home, eating

dinner together.

You know, I was very adamant about this on the show. I am super, super

protective of my daughters. Like I made myself a promise.

After introducing my daughters to one of my exes, the only person that's ever

met them, I told them, unless it's going to be my forever person and I know

that, I'm not introducing someone.

I don't want them to see someone come in and out of their lives.

It's not fair to Libby. It's not fair to my daughters. It's not fair to me for

that to happen. So, you know, long story short, I want to see that we can move

in together, you know, that the relationship is headed to us getting

spending the rest of our life together before, you know.

We make that introduction.

So like it has to be an engagement before that happens?

I don't think, no, not an engagement. I think that would be a little weird, you

know, to be like, oh, hey, by the way, this is my fiance.

But I think it has to be, I have to know, like I'm putting a ring on it.

the direction that it's going.

Do they know that Libby exists?

They do.

I mean, I am a father now, but I'm not like a father like you are, a single

father who's out there dating. So like everything you're saying.

totally makes a lot of sense in terms of the sensitivity around it.

Just to play devil's advocate, I mean, you're kind of saying two things at the

same time, and one of that almost kind of sounds like, I don't know how it's

going with Libby, almost. I'm curious, Libby, how does that make you feel,

knowing that his reasoning makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, are you

internalizing that as, what does that say about us?

Yeah, I mean, I think that there is an interesting element of this, of the fact

that it's a TV show and I don't think I would be ever.

Well, obviously, the relationship isn't a TV show, but it will be shown on a TV

show. And there's an element of judgment that's going to be made one way or

another. So for me, that's the only hard part is I don't want anybody in the

family to see a little clip of me and make any assumptions versus like me in

real life.

What do you mean by that?

Like them not meeting you and only watch you on TV. Exactly.

And just keeping that image of me in their mind before they got a chance to

their own judgment. Because like we said, it's a show. Four weeks doesn't

summarize you as a person. Your nervous self on camera isn't you as a person in

your entirety.

So there's that. But also I just want to say like I really respect the fact that

he's mature enough to be like, hey, it's not.

appropriate for me to be bringing people in and out of somebody's life and when

there's kids in the picture i think it's it's hard for me to talk about because

i never want to overstep because that is somebody else's family that didn't ask

for their life to be put on camera and for them to be talked about to the

so i just honestly am mostly respectful of his maturity to the situation have

you met the mother of his children i have not is that something that you're

looking at doing at some point I mean, I think that would just boil down to her.

You know, she wants to. I, you know, I would offer that. You know, I did it,

know, the last time that someone met my daughters. I, you know, did ask her,

like, did you want to meet her first before I make the introduction to the

girls? But I'm going to leave that up to her. She's going to make her own

decisions. I can't speak for her if she'll want to meet Libby.

And I'm curious, I mean, do you guys talk about, and it seems like it's still

fairly early in the relationship, but like, do you guys talk about engagement

all? Or are we just focusing on closing the long distance and things like that?

Yeah. I mean, as far as engagement's concerned, like this whole show thing is

kind of a wrench in the plant. We've been on the low.

So we both know that like we see each other as a potential partner, spouse,

whatever. But are we day to day like?

So can you pop in the question?

No, no, no, no. And also, yeah, there are those more important things about a

relationship that you really need a test first before you are to get engaged

with anything of the sort. One being living together for extended amounts of

times. Another being dating somebody who has kids and being a part of that.

That's a whole other life that I haven't experienced.

Okay. Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back to get into it with

the rest of the couples.

Don't go away.

If you enjoyed watching Age of Attraction and are interested in

love for yourself on Season 2 of Age of Attraction, be sure to go to

ageofattractioncasting .com to apply because your future love story could be

waiting for you.

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And we're back with the Age of Attraction reunion.

Well, Vanell and Jorge bonded over a shared love of God and a deep desire for

commitment. But with their 33 -year age gap and different feelings about

communication, temperament, and boundaries soon came to light.

Sadly, these struggles in their relationship forced it to an abrupt and

disappointing halt.

So how are you two doing today?

I'm fine. Okay. And we're cool. All right. I mean, for me personally, I

think... And I will always think Vanilla's an amazing, beautiful woman.

think the world of her, she knows that. We talked after, you know, and I have

nothing but love for her.

Oh, you did? So y 'all had a moment after the show? Mm -hmm.

And whose decision was that? Who reached out?

Vanilla reached out to me.

Okay. What was that feeling of wanting to reach out to him?

I think after, like, leaving the show and, like, coming back to real life, it

was just kind of, like, weird to just act like... you know, that whole

connection like didn't exist, like that I just didn't know that person. So I

reached out and, you know, I missed him. I wanted to, you know, try to see if we

can like try to make it work.

And yeah.

It was very disappointing to see you guys break up because at the time, I

you guys were very excited about each other. Certainly you, Vanell, had a lot

hope and optimism about the potential.

Where do you think ultimately things went wrong?

I think for me, we weren't aligned on my abstinence. Our communication

was definitely a huge factor.

Yeah, I think mainly those two things, but mainly the communication.

And what do you mean by the abstinence side of things?

I think you can see on the show, it kind of just was blurred a little bit.

Obviously, Jorge was a little bit confused on where the abstinence lied

because... of the romantic moments we had and stuff.

Um, and we didn't really like have like deeper conversations about that and like

what those boundaries were.

I guess looking back, you know, because a lot of that, a lot of that moment was

about you telling Jorge that you were celibate and just hoping that, you know,

you would get as obviously as you would hope to get like a, I want to respect

that. I want to support that.

And it didn't seem like, again, Jorge, you really understood.

what she meant by celibate, or maybe you had some of your own assumptions, and

that seemed to lead to some communication problems.

Actually, I think so. I like the fact that she said abstinent because it's not

celibate, it's abstinent. But I did not have a problem. So one of the things is

this. My connection with Vanell was very real, very serious. As I've told you

all, I was very protective of her.

when I say protective of her, not only protective of her from the outside, but

protective of her from me. I'm not going to do anything to try to offend or hurt

her. And everything I did and every way I tried to handle it, I tried to handle

it with care as best I could so that she understood. And I understood that when

she said it, when we first talked and she said it, so then my thoughts went

okay, well, Vancouver, we're going to do a lot of talking.

Because we're enjoying nothing else.

But like she said, some of the romantic moments confused it for me. And I think

when I look back at it, I always say, communication is key for me.

is everything. You're going to hear me say it over and over again.

Because in my profession as a lawyer, most times people misunderstand each

other. And they'll be talking apples and oranges, and they go apart because they

never really understood.

And I think that that happened with Fenella and I because, honestly,

If you look at it, she was saying, she kept asking me, what do you think about

it? And I kept telling her, I don't know.

And I think that set her off because it made her think that, well, no, that's

not acceptable.

And so when I look back at it, I said, you know what? It wasn't her, it was me

on the communication tip because I should have said, well, listen.

And when we were talking, I wanted her to say, see, everybody in Vancouver was,

I don't know.

Because I don't know meant, I don't know if we're going to be together.

I don't know if we're going to continue in a relationship.

I don't know. There's a bunch of I don't knows. So the way I felt about it was,

well, first off, I'm a little confused. I always think that as a man, I need to

step forward and say, okay, so what does actually your absence mean?

Like, give me a blueprint.

And I didn't do that.

You know, I assumed that when she said absence, it meant nothing. And so then

when we do stuff, I'm like, okay, this is not absence. So maybe it's...

Maybe it's something you're struggling with. So that would be, I'll take the

brunt of that because I don't believe in, I'm not big into pointing fingers at

you all.

Let's look at it collectively and see what we can do to better communicate.

I think, as I said then, it was a communication thing.

And it could have been improved and I always take my responsibility.

I'm curious to know, obviously, in today's culture, hookup culture is

prevalent.

It obviously, as you expressed, has been a challenge for you dating.

Has your relationship with Jorge and how things unfolded, has it given you a

different perspective of how you communicate your celibacy going forward?

Yeah, definitely. And I think like coming into this experience, like

this, like dating.

situations like this have been easier for me to avoid like I'm not you know

never lived with a guy before I'm not putting myself in these types of

temptations but you know coming to this experience I really wanted to fully give

myself into this process and really see where it goes with Jorge I was literally

like obsessed with him um so yeah there are times when I'm literally living with

someone that I had an extremely strong emotional connection to, also really

physically attracted to.

So, yeah, like, you know, there are times when maybe I fell short a little

but maybe going forward, just be a little bit more like, you know, stern

my boundaries. But like I said, on the outside world, I'm not putting myself in

situations like this.

Okay. There was also a big moment throughout that I think might have been

before your breakup.

Something happened to the streets of Vancouver.

Vanell, I'd like to kind of have you clear that whole situation up and get

kind of the details of it all just because the show didn't.

So can you tell us what happened in that?

Yeah. I mean, I guess Jorge can say his part too. But from my experience, I

thought there was just like a random guy on the street just yelling over like,

yo, you talking blah, blah. And obviously like Jorge turns around and is

oh like mind your business or whatever and then they're both going at it and it

comes to a point where you know the guy's walking behind us he has his

skateboard in his hand and you know him and Jorge are still like you know going

back and forth about it and it starts to get to a point where it gets escalated

and you know Jorge's they're talking about fighting each other um and I think

for me in that moment I think that was my first time seeing Jorge

Seeing Jorge, like, upset, like, I saw, like, a different side to him. And it

just, you know, it was different for me.

And I, yeah.

What about that?

Because we had an opportunity to talk with you prior to now. Yeah. And I

you know, it's an interesting conversation, right? Because on one end,

as guys, you know, we want to protect our ladies. We want to, you know, be

for them.

I feel like my wife expects that of me as well. But there are also situations

where it's like, you know, you use the phrase, I wanted to diffuse the

situation. And then the kind of the question is, you know, how do you go

diffusing the situation? When we talked to you before, you suggested that when

the things first happened, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so

correct me if I'm wrong, that you felt like Jorge could have done something

different to diffuse the situation.

And in fact, you almost felt like he escalated it to a point. Can you

on that? I definitely still feel that way. I feel like, you know, at that

when they were just still like, you know, arguing with each other, I felt

we could have maybe just like ignored that person and kept walking. I felt

it didn't need to get to a point where they're both wanting to like be physical

with each other.

Also, for me, like I was uncomfortable in that moment because.

you know, this person could have had like a gun, could have had a knife,

have done something.

But also it was just like a random person, right? Like that's not someone

knew. So it could have been avoided in my opinion. And he was yelling from afar

at y 'all to start?

No, absolutely not.

I'd love to hear.

Well, one, I mean, when Vanell first called me, I'm a little surprised what

just said, because she said, when we first talked, she said, I understood

you were protecting me after talking to my mother and her friend. But so the

situation, it's still clear in my mind. I don't forget that kind of stuff. And

one of the things I said to Vanell is, have you been, are you, I've been in the

streets. I've come from the hood. So I know a situation when I see one. And

happened is, so we're standing, waiting for the light to change.

Actually, we're joking. And so I said something to her like, you crazy girl.

we're laughing.

And this guy comes up and says, what the fuck did you say to me?

So first off, you're behind my woman, right? You're saying that to me. So what

said to him was, first of all, I'm talking to her.

Second of all, you better watch how you talk to me. And I made it very clear

because I'm not, there's not, I've never known any time when I've been on the

streets that someone who poses a threat.

Goes away by saying, can you please leave us alone?

No, that's not going to happen. So I wanted to let him know I'm not having

So when I said that, he said, yeah, that's what I thought. He keeps talking.

OK, that could have arrested the light turns.

So we get ready to walk across the street as we're walking.

Vanell is behind me, which is a problem for me.

Right. He's behind her with a skateboard.

So that's what I'm like. Oh, no, he's not. I'm not. I'm not going to take a

chance. With this man hitting her over there, it's not going to happen. And he

kept walking.

So I said, Vinel, go in front of me.

Right? And then I turned and I said, I'm going to tell you one time and one time

only. Walk away.

And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. I said, and I ain't going to lie. I said,

will bust your ass. I'm not playing with you.

And I wasn't.

I'm not. I'm the one thing you can.

I don't mind taking responsibility. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in

my life.

Period. It's not negotiable.

So I told him that. And so then when he said something else, I just stepped

towards him. And then he walked away.

That was the end of it. Because I want him to know I'm not playing with you

Could have had a gun, could have had a knife, could have got hit by a car. I

don't care.

I'm not going to let you pose a threat to my woman, period.

What you and I deal with, so be it. But you're not going to pose a threat to my

woman, period.

Yeah, but I don't think I would say that guy was directly behind me. There was a

good amount of distance between us when we were walking. I think we see it

differently. I think we see it differently.

I think that I'm pretty well aware of where I saw him and pretty well aware of

what he had in his hand.

I don't think anyone would think, as an attorney, I know, come on, I'm not going

to just go around, hey, let me start a fight with this random guy. No, I don't

care about that. I don't care about that.

What I care about is...

If you pose a threat to her, I'm going to take care of that.

That's just the way I felt. With that said, I understand if she felt

uncomfortable and that doesn't work for her, then I respect that. No problem.

But what I said to her on the show, I said ten toes down, I'm going to do it

every time in every situation. If we walk out of here today and we're all

walking together and some man poses a threat, I'm going to step to him.

Period. I am curious, just opening it up to the group, I imagine this is a

fairly relatable topic for both men.

and women in relationships. And there seems to be kind of a gray area of like,

hey, do I need the protection in this moment? Or are you puffing your chest

showing off? Or are you diffusing the situation in the best possible way?

Because it seems to be like almost a lot of gray area. And I'm just kind of

curious what any of you have to say about it. Yeah, I mean, for me, I think

man, you're just protected by nature. You should be. And if you're with your

partner and someone...

poses a threat, whether you know what they have or don't, you're going to make

sure your person is protected.

And I get coming from different backgrounds, Jorge and I have a similar

And so for me, like I relate to it. Like if someone's out of pocket and you're

right, you don't know if they have a knife or a gun or anything like that,

I'm not going to let you walk behind me because I don't know if you have

something on you. Right. And if you back down, typically in those situations,

they do actually.

continue to get aggressive so you have to address the situation and say hey you

got to go that way or it's a problem and typically a lot of times like it

happened with them they'll just walk away so for me like I I'm the same way

I'm with my partner anyone that I'm protective of and someone's making us

uncomfortable I'm going to get rid of the situation

Teresa, I feel like you have a lot of – you're listening intently.

I can hear your – I can see your brain moving. I mean I want to ask you. But I

just feel like I understand that if that person was right next to us. There was

a distance between us in the beginning.

Clarified distance for people like was close to like from you to Natalie and

you to Nick. Like how – because everyone – I feel like this distance is like –

thing like how close was I would say like a distance from like here to like

there like we were walking that guy was walking he was far it was it was a

distance but for you how far was his man that is absolutely so we we were I

think she her opinion matters we were stopped

at a light I understand we were waiting to walk across the street he wasn't

right behind so he he was walking so he came

We're standing. He comes up.

So he's by the lamp right now. So he comes up from behind and he comes. So if

Vanilla's here, he comes closer to that and says something to me. Now, we had

Wrangler and the same thing. You need to get to step. And he said that to him.

So when he comes up, if he's back there, why do I care? I don't care if you're

back there and you're just yelling insults. But if you're here, that's a

Listen, people can.

I'm just going to tell you what I and what I know. And it's like.

As if yesterday. I don't forget that type of stuff.

You know, obviously you guys aren't together.

It doesn't seem like there's going to be a reconciliation.

But how... Pardon me? Well, you tried. You hit me now. I mean, they said they

cool. Remember they cool? You forgot? They said they cool. I mean, listen. Is

there a chance you guys could get back together?

Let's go on.

Keep the stage going on. But I am just curious. And like, how are you...

Question to both of you. Like, in a future situation, we're...

Clearly you guys see this differently. I think we can agree on that, that we're

agreeing to disagree. But in those situations that all couples have, how

guys going to work through those relationships as opposed to just getting

quitting?

I'm not. I mean, the athlete in me, I don't quit at anything.

I'm going to work through it.

Part of it to me, like I said, I always keep going back to communication,

communication, because I think that if we understand, then it's like I was

telling the guy.

I said, if you're in a relationship with a woman and you and her say, we're on

the same team, right? So we're never against each other.

So then that means that no matter what happens, if someone feels disrespected,

someone feels misunderstood, instead of coming and going against each other, why

not give the benefit of the doubt and say, well, what did you mean by what you

just did or what you just said? Because it made me feel this way. And then it

gives me the opportunity to say, no, that's not what I meant at all.

And I think what...

Like when I said earlier about things you learn from relationships, when I was

younger, it would just be a person yelling their opinion.

And so to me, like I had told Vanell, in the Bible it says, a fool delights in

airing his own opinions. A wise man seeks to get an understanding.

So rather than yelling back and forth, no, I learned from young that, okay, no,

you know what? I'm going to listen to you. I'm going to let you talk until

you're done talking. And then I'm going to say, are you done?

And then I want to respond to you.

So that you know that I heard you and I'm responding to you.

But if it doesn't work, it doesn't. And so, but when I, if it fails, I don't go,

oh, she's just crazy. No, I go, okay, so how could I handle it better? Is it

something I could have said differently?

Because going forth, if I'm going to go further in a relationship, I don't want

that to happen again.

Vanell, did you feel like he listened and then responded in your

Um, I feel like when we had the conversation, I think in that moment, we

were a little bit more like heightened and neither of us were really truly like

listening to one another or trying to understand each other. I think at that

point it was more so just, or at least like neither of us were like resolution

focused. I don't think. You said that you felt like Jorge talked at you and

with you. Do you still feel that way?

Like now? Like looking back at those conversations.

Yeah, we're watching it. Yeah. Yeah. During those conversations, I think so.

Right. Because I think and, you know, he was using words like I have, you know,

experience in this and I've been, you know, through this and I'm from here.

in those moments, I felt like he was talking at me.

During the show, you had mentioned that your family or specifically your parents

didn't want you to date anyone older than 40, 10 years older or something

that. What was it about Jorge and your relationship that made you so.

willing to ignore that after learning about his age um i think at that point i

was already obsessed with him so the age like literally did not matter to me at

that point i was like he could be 80 years old and i'd still be with him i

you clearly had those strong feelings which i think is what makes us so sad

it didn't work out but what were some of the things that he brought to this

relationship that was different for you Yeah, contrary to belief, I liked how

dominant Jorge was.

And also, like, behind closed doors, he was just so sweet to, like, all the

girls, too, always, like, checking up on everyone, making sure everyone's good,

always the person that all the guys would come to talk to.

When I would, like, talk to the girls about him, they all had the great things

to say, and, like, I really liked that.

And like you said, he was very protective for me, and I felt safe with

the time.

And I could tell that Jorge wasn't someone that, like, lets his guard down

easily and opens up easily. And, you know, he did that with me. So, yeah, I

looked those clothes up on him. Is there a part of you that regrets walking away

that day?

I wouldn't say I regret walking away, but I think that day, I

could have communicated better that day. Yeah, for sure.

Is there any chance that you guys reconsidered this relationship? You

you're seeing each other.

You know, you guys are looking great.

Is there anything you guys want to say to each other? I think that the

connection, I don't, there's no way in the world you can say that the

isn't going to always be there. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. So

when I saw Vanell, it's the same feelings that came right back up. I

felt, once again, protective of her. I felt, and which for me is weird, because

normally when I meet a woman, it's like I'm processing information, like to try

to project how you will be.

With Vanell, it was like, yeah, it's something about her.

And it was different.

I stepped out of my comfort zone and there were things different that Vanell

I didn't have in common that I overlooked because I was like, I like

But in reference to your question, you never know. I never say never because...

You know, you never know what happens. We saw each other. We hugged. We had

some, you know, and so, but, but, but that

being said, that being said, that being said, I feel like this.

At the very least, we're friends for life. I told her there's never a time if

she ever needs to call me, I got her. If she ever needs anything, I got her.

It's the same way. And even though she doesn't remember Vancouver very well as

far as me protecting her, I'm still going to protect you.

I'm just playing. You know, I'm kidding.

Is there anything you want to say to Jorge?

No, I think I feel the same. I'll always have love for Jorge.

I'll always cherish this experience we had together.

I do want to give you an opportunity to address any feelings you might have

about the questions that people are having about when you chose to

to Vanell that you had children. Oh, thank you so much.

I absolutely hate that shit.

I am very, very proud of my children. I speak about them all the time.

It's not something that I would hide from anyone, and I did not want to hide

from her.

And it wasn't hidden from her.

And if I would have followed my gut, and I'm just going to say I wanted to tell

her on the third date, and that's what my plan was, but I couldn't. If I would

have followed the way I believe, I should have told her right then.

The thing about it is how I justified it in my mind was I'm not going to lie to

her. So when she said that question, I said, so you want kids. I'm not going to

lie. So for all you people out there saying, oh, he lied.

I did not lie to her, but that is something that I take very serious.

And when I shared it with her and Vanell said to me, so listen, where I'm at is

if my man wants children, then I'm down to have it. But if he doesn't, then I

don't care.

So I think both of us are aligned with that because my thing is people, I've

read people, oh, you're six, you don't have kids.

Man, Al Pacino had kids. Shut up. So I feel like that would be something we

determined if we stayed together.

But I was definitely not hiding my kids. That was never something I would do. I

think all of the men on here were all proud of our children. And I appreciate

you for allowing me to address it. I think it's obvious that you're proud of

your kids. I think that's what's interesting because so much of you guys'

relationship is about the communication or where you guys struggled.

It's interesting to hear how mentally you had told yourself, I want to tell

on the third date. I want to tell her on the third date.

And we had an opportunity to watch The Promise Room with you two.

And when it all went down, Vanell was like, I don't even know if you have kids

or if you want kids. And she asked two questions back to back.

You answered the second question.

And it's just kind of fascinating. I wonder if you reflect on that, you know,

that mentally you were like, I want to tell her on the third date. And then you

had this expectation or this question that you asked.

And then all of a sudden she's like, you don't have kids.

And you're like, oh, she's not worried about that.

Do you think sometimes being kind of like that strong -minded person, that

strong -willed person where, like, you're actually not listening to your

as much as you think you are because, like, he asked the question and you were

so, like, committed to telling her on the third date rather than when she

about it? No, I think it was the more stubborn side of me. It didn't have to

with the fact that, okay, I wanted to tell her the third date and it was

prevented, so you're not going to tell me when I'm going to tell her when. No

one's going to tell me unless Christ comes down.

That's the only person who's going to tell me, hey, you need to do this and

do it.

So if you tell me I have to do something, I'm going to tell her when I

best. But in hindsight, because of the way it looked, the

optics of it, I would go back and say right in the promise room, tell her

then. Because I didn't believe going into the promise room as much as I, and

I'll give you something that no one knew, like I turned 60.

down in Whistler. So I was 59.

I did not want to say 60. I was like, that sounds old.

59 sounds better.

I'm not fucking saying 60. And they were like, you're 60.

And one of the things that I have struggled with, part of the reason I

on the show is because I've never believed that age is a factor.

And for me, I was age conscious because when people ask me my age, I'm like, how

old do I look? 40. You're right. You're right.

40? Okay, we're lying.

Please. Watch yourself now. Don't make me come for you.

But so I just felt like that was something that used to always bother me.

like one of the things when you just asked me, yes, if I had to do it all

again, I would definitely do it different. But the stubborn side of me

no, I'm going to tell her when I tell her. And that didn't have to do with

But so, yeah.

OK, I'm going to say, OK, I'm glad we got that.

Question for both Jorge and Vanell, but I want to start with you, Vanell. With

this show being about does age really matter when it comes to love, Vanell,

time we spoke with you and talked about your breakup with Jorge, you were pretty

strong by saying, actually, I think our age difference ended up playing a role

in our relationship ending.

As you sit here today after seeing Jorge, do you still feel that way?

I would say so, yeah.

Okay. But also a lot of the things that played a role in us not working out was

just our communication.

What part of the age difference played a role in the breakup?

I would say like what I said earlier, the part of when I felt like he was like

talking at me or maybe the way we were understanding each other.

Okay. So, yeah.

Okay. Jorge, how do you feel about that?

I don't think that's an age thing. I think that's, once again, a

style. And you've asked me before, you asked me if that has come up before, and

I think that it's the nature of my profession.

Sometimes I can be interrogating folks or cross -examining, so I have to always

check that.

And so if ever my partner says, well, I don't feel like you're talking to me, I

feel like you're talking at me, then that means I have to pivot and change

way I do it so that they don't feel that way. One of the things I share with

Vanell is...

If I had to do it all over again, it should have been a stop and say, okay,

works for you communication -wise and what works for me? Because me, I'm going

to be defensive if you come at me like that and what works for you so that we

understand that. And I think it would have made it a little bit more easy. So

she felt that way, I think that any time you're dealing in a relationship as a

man with a woman.

You have to be open to their feelings, and their feelings are 100%. There's no,

you can't say, oh, your feelings aren't valid. No, your feelings are always

valid. So then if she says, well, I feel like you're talking at me, that wasn't

said in Vancouver, but she said that's how she felt later. But if you tell me I

feel like you're talking at me, well, then I'm going to stop and pivot and

okay, my bad. Let me address you a different way. Is it hard to hear that

feels that your age played a role in it?

No, because I don't think it did, and I'm not worried about that.

Vanell loves me, man. What you saying?

Well, before we move on, do either of you have anything you want to say to one

another? I say that Vanell, you know that our connection is dope and deep,

we have very strong feelings for each other, and I'm never going to say never

because you never know what might happen.

And you and I know just every time we even be in the hallway, we're like,

you know.

So I'll leave that open.

I'll leave that as a chapter open and that as a book open. But you know my

feeling is extremely strong for you. And you know our connection is on another

level.

It is hot in here, you know.

Yeah, it's pretty hot.

Do you need a fan? I got you, baby girl.

Oh, my God, no. I'm good.

I mean, I would say I agree with.

you know, what you said, like, you know, the connections I have for you are

really real and deep and connection like that doesn't just, you know, go away

that fast, that quickly. Like I literally, in my mind, you were

my husband, like there is nothing else, you know?

Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't know.

Well, if you ask her out on a date, just let us know.

I'll text you. I'll text you. But, you know, one thing I just said to her, I

don't want to belabor the point, but I said to her that I think a lot of times

people act as being in love is a right, and it's not. It's a privilege because

we're three -quarters of the world are lonely. So whenever you get the

opportunity to have a deep connection with someone, you've got to make sure

you exhaust every possibility.

Due to Derek's incredible skin care routine, he and Pfeiffer

may not have looked it, but they were, in fact, 20 years apart in age. While

they ended the journey with supportive parents and a commitment of staying

together, life off camera pulled them in different directions.

Unfortunately, Pfeiffer is celebrating her birthday in Japan and is sad to not

be here. But, Derek, can you explain what happened post -filming?

Yeah, I think some of the things that showed up.

while filming um some of the questions she had or some of the concerns about

moving you know across the country and giving up her life friends and all that

think honestly i mean looking at it now i think that just it was just too big it

was too much when she got back to her normal life outside of the bubble you

i think that there was probably some influences there you know what do you

by that i well obviously there's an age gap so her friends are probably, for the

most part, much younger than me, right? And probably not married, probably

single. So rather, you know, the conversations she's having are

little bit of them being selfish because they don't want to lose their friend.

And it's probably something that they haven't, you know, experienced yet.

And I get it, like, looking at it like, wow, you went away and you found this

guy and you're going to pick up him.

move your entire life for just him that doesn't make any sense that's crazy and

so I understand where she probably was influenced and I was concerned about it

you know and that was one of the things when we talked in Vancouver I tried to

address it as much as possible but there was also this Pfeiffer was a bit

reserved with it like she just was like I want to be present in the moment I

don't want to think about that and for me It was like, well, I mean, we have to

think about it. Do you think Pfeiffer painted an accurate picture of what her

life and lifestyle was back at home while you were dating?

Sounds good.

Why are you laughing, Derek?

Oh, man.

To a certain degree. I think.

What about to the degree that maybe she didn't?

So, yeah, I think that.

Her living with her roommates, probably, like, college campus, sorority girl

style. I mean, I was going to ask you straight. Like, you told me offline. I

would love to hear you tell the story about how you found out where she lived.

Wow. All right. So this is what it is. Let's go. After she came to Dallas,

obviously, we broke up a few weeks after that.

And, you know, we had a conversation. She sent me a message. I left some

there. So can you mail them to me?

and i'm like yeah and the way i am she sent the message and i was like packed

them up within 15 minutes i'm like whatever i don't want to think about it

looked at her address and you know how you can satellite look in probably

I'm not psychotic at all.

It just happened. I was just, you know, just curious.

There's nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with being a little bit intrusive.

I like looking at it. It's like, I always do. Yeah. So I, um, I zoomed in

was like fraternity and sorority houses, like on the same block. And then I was

able to piece together like, Oh, she did say she lived with, you know, more than

a normal.

Amount of roommates. Okay. Right. So like, okay. So she probably lived in a

sorority house and yeah. Looking at it, I'm like, well shit. Like that's

something that I probably needed to know. Yeah.

Because I can tailor as much as I can.

I can tailor my conversation to like, this is probably what you're going to

Like this is going to seem insane.

Like you're basically still living like a college life, you know? And now you're

essentially, you're going to go.

Be with a man that's taking care of a five -year -old.

That's a lot.

Do you know if she's still in school or just living that lifestyle?

I don't think – you can't live in a sorority house if you're not still in

school. So in Pfeiffer's defense, she's not living in a sorority house. I think

she just has maybe roommates that were friends from a sorority.

But I don't think she's still in school. She's graduating.

Yeah, she's not still in school. I know that.

And were there ever conversations about you?

going to stay with her and visit her in seattle yeah um when when she was in

dallas we talked about me coming and visiting and she just you know was

you know adamant like hey i'd rather just get like a hotel i mean i'd stay

her and which i wasn't i mean i'm 40 43 at the time 44 i'm like yeah i mean i'm

a grown man like i'm not gonna burden your you know your roommates I get it I

want to be totally respectful of their space as well so I'll make sure they

good and I'll get a place so she had you know some reservations I probably

should have asked deeper questions then like okay I get it and I'll definitely

make sure that that's taken care of and everyone's um everyone's uh happy with

you know and I don't want to inconvenience them but the fact that

randomly bringing it up like is there something else that you're thinking

deeper, and I feel like that was just, you know, a part of it, like, the list

things that were probably just racing through our minds. How long did you guys

date for post -filming?

A month. A month. It was a month, okay. Yeah, so, yeah, she came to Dallas about

a week and a half later for my birthday, and, I mean, things were great, you

know. We had a great time with some of my friends and family, and she met my

and my... My mom's husband as well. Did she ever have a chance to meet your

kids?

No, no. For me, the way I was looking at the next three months, you know, even

some of my friends, I mean, my friends had questions too. Like, I don't want to

just sound like it's totally on Pfeiffer. Like, it was definitely

as to how this looks. And I just told them, like, let's just see what the next

three months looks like. Because that was living in a bubble.

Now we live across the country. And so this is a whole new phase of dating.

That we're about to go through and experience and see, you know, do we like

talking on the phone? Do we like FaceTime? Like all those things, do we

connected that way? Or are we just seeing each other once a month? Or, you

like it was a lot that was unanswered that I wanted to see before ever going

down that path. And for me, meeting my kids, I always allow the mothers first.

Like, hey, we'll sit down and have a conversation with the person I'm dating.

Just out of respect for you.

And that's always worked. I haven't had people meet. My oldest has met, you

know, two girlfriends, Dominic. You know, he hasn't. He's met one. And so

extremely protective of that because, as Andrew said earlier, I don't want to

set, you know, that culture like in our household that, yeah, dad's with this

lady and, okay, she's gone and here's another one.

During filming when you met her,

parents, she seemed visibly nervous. She was very uncomfortable, very anxious.

You, you know, tried to scoot her close to you, console her. She actually

scooted further away from you. Get away from me, bro.

Get away from me. Yeah. What were your feelings then and watching it back? Are

they the same or have they changed?

Well, I mean, watching it back because I was there with her and I know what the

night before looked like and how nervous she was.

I always try to take into consideration my age, and I know that I'm feeling,

okay, she's 23 years old, right? And her relationship with her parents is a lot

different than my relationship with my parents, right? So I understand the

concerns. You're still getting to know me and trying to have that conversation,

and you may have unanswered things about just your life that you may not have

talked to your parents about at that age, right? So you're going to present

new relationship.

How are my parents going to receive it? What are they going to say to him?

And how is it going to influence me? Because I think at that age, you're

probably still, depending on the circumstance you're growing up, you're

still pretty connected and influenced by your parents to a certain degree.

So I think that she may have had some concerns there.

Every relationship that ends doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't beneficial to

or that we couldn't learn something from it. And I thought it was really

interesting watching it back.

Pfeiffer referenced multiple times previous relationships and toxic

From what we've learned of you, Derek, you seem like a pretty solid stand -up

guy. Thank you.

And I'm just curious, as you reflect on a relationship that didn't work out,

what role do you feel like Pfeiffer played in your life and what did you

from that relationship?

Right. I completely agree. I think that, as Jorge said, every relationship, it's

not that it's a bad relationship, it's a learning experience.

I'm so grateful and appreciative for that relationship. I have so much

for Pfeiffer. She's aged beyond her years. And that's probably the only time

can say honestly in my life that I've had a breakup that wasn't toxic.

Like, it wasn't a problem. It was understanding on my part.

I've always felt that her heart is pure, and I know that it is. So I don't think

that this was something – it didn't come from a place of, like, she was hiding

it. It was like, this is just the way it is. She can't deal with it anymore.

And knowing her heart, I wasn't going to push her in any direction. I just

wanted to be respectful of that. But our relationship, like, I learned so much

as far as being open.

I don't think that I've been open in probably –

like that probably like a decade before.

And, you know, I came into the experience wanting to be open to finding

person and knowing that it may not look like, you know, what I typically date

because obviously that wasn't working.

So she was so different for me, you know, and I saw like I'm really

big on a person's heart and their intentions and they were just so pure.

You know, our conversations, if there was something that I, that she wasn't

comfortable with, she had, she had one time when we had, it was off camera, the

conversation about her moving when she was extremely uncomfortable about it.

it was before the dinner with you guys.

We had a really rough go for about two or three hours, which was crazy because

it was like smooth sailing.

Guys like almost made fun of us because it was like.

Y 'all are living in this bubble, inside of a bubble, like you don't have any

problems. So it was getting close to the end and now we have this problem and

I'm sitting in the bathroom for like 45 minutes and she's in the other room and

we're not talking and I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

You know, and then I go to the weight room and Logan sees me and he's like...

He's like halfway happy that I actually have a problem. He's like, come on.

You got some problem.

Like I'm like just sitting there.

Trish was napping.

Make a bed.

But my, I would say a good or a bad trait that I've had in the past when

happens, I'll shut down a little bit and it takes me some time and I'll walk

away. I was so proud of her, her maturity.

I came back into the apartment. She said, hey, can we sit down and talk?

And she was so vulnerable and open. She was like, look, I want to move to

Dallas. I'm going to move to Dallas. I'm just scared.

Like, that's what's going on. Yeah. And so, you know, that was such a powerful

moment for me to take. Like, damn, like, you know, at her age, she took control

of that situation. An area that I've been weak, she's able to help me get

through. I'm really curious. You guys clearly had a great connection. I think

the chemistry was off the charts.

Clearly, you know, you're talking about moments that Pfeiffer showed this

maturity that surprised you. And I think when, again, you're the older person,

you're trying not to like quiz the person about like how mature they are or

aren't. And yet Pfeiffer showed you these moments of maturity. And again,

is not like a rip on Pfeiffer, but I think it sounds like you came to learn

like once she got outside of this bubble and got back to her life, she maybe

realized that like, you know what, age is playing a role.

and why this relationship can't work out. I'm not ready for what Derek has or

his lifestyle.

Yeah, I agree. I think when you're in the bubble, I think she was completely

ingrained in the experience.

And even when I first brought up my kids, the night before, I was freaking

to talk about it. Because for me, I know the severity of it. That's so serious.

And she took it.

so easy so it was like maybe she was going with the flow because she hasn't

in that situation before right so it was like yeah it's cool we'll figure it out

yes it's cool but for me those steps were like monumental like I'm like this

huge and as far as if we can continue or you know we decide like this this does

not work for me then I was like so like I was grateful for the way that she took

like the things that are flawed about me or the responsibilities that I have and

all that in that moment. But I think getting back home, you know, she had

influences, and that's fair, right? She's 23 years old. You're going to be

influenced by your circle that you're around.

Are you more, less likely, or about the same, your willingness to date someone

younger than you?

No, I would say I'm about the same. Okay.

Let's say you meet someone, they're younger than you. I'm curious how, going

forward, will you protect yourself and your heart?

from the same thing ending up. Because a lot of people have bad partners.

Pfeiffer talked about a bad ex.

And it wouldn't be surprising to me that you meet someone younger than you. And

they're like, oh, this Derek, he's a great guy.

You know, there's a lot of reasons why you seem appealing.

But how will you protect yourself from meeting someone like Pfeiffer? Which

again, no disrespect, you know, talks about when she gets older, like you seem

like a great guy, but maybe just isn't in the place in her life to actually

you where you're at.

I think having deeper conversations, like some of those things that I may

like touched on and whereas Pfeiffer was like, I don't really want to go there.

But I think that's a big part of it. Like, you know what? I'm going to have

make you uncomfortable right now because this is actually where I'm at in life.

And not that you have to have the perfect response, but I need you to get

entire picture right and see how you and see what the response is and see what

the outcome is from there.

And I think that's probably an area that I could say, you know, I can improve on

from that relationship. It's tough, yeah, because there is that moment where

guys were talking about moving, you know, and I've said this many times. As

gotten older, I realized that my 20s were me living up to the expectations I

when I was like a teenager, right?

And you're like, this is how I had planned. This is what I had planned. And

remember hearing Pfeiffer saying things like, I made this promise to myself. I

promised this to myself.

And you're on the other end being like, listen, we'll just figure it out as we

go. Looking back, do you see that as a sign of maybe this kind of the gap

between your maturity levels?

Yes, I do. On the front end, when she explained that she moved away for

she went back home for a while and then moved again. So I took it or moved

across the country to go to finish up.

school in Seattle I took that as you know what she's had these experiences

kind of been on her own so she does understand that it can be rocky but you

still make it right and in that moment when she had that conversation I was

trying to get her to lean on her previous experiences right because I

I can't push mine on her and say hey is this going to be all right she's going

to be all right just trust me I was just you know trying to convey like Look,

you've been down this road before. Yes, it looks very different, but you've been

uncomfortable. And it doesn't mean that you can't grow and it doesn't mean that

we can't grow. What does your dating life look like today?

I'm single. I took some time. And I mean, like I said, I put a lot into

into the entire experience. It just took a lot for me to go through it.

And being that open for me is just not that easy to just turn around and do

again. So I would much rather.

Take my time, you know, and make sure that I'm ready so I can show up for a

person, you know, if I'm going to truly try today. OK, but are the DMs open?

The DMs are open. I'm open.

Was there any moment where you looked back at maybe some of the other women

were at the retreat and thought maybe I should like rekindle with someone else?

Maybe I should follow up with the connection that I had that I didn't see

the way through?

Everyone's clearing their throats.

What?

I didn't do anything.

You called.

Should I ask y 'all?

I was clearing my throat.

I didn't think Jorge was going to start calling.

I cleared my throat. And first of all, Derek is just a great guy.

Now.

Now. Like that?

You're outstanding.

I mean, if you're broken up with someone, you're certainly allowed to

connections. All right.

Who's the connection? We all want to know. He doesn't have.

Can we let Derek answer? Yeah.

Whose DMs was DMU? What was that? Did I have any previous connections?

Well, I just was curious.

Maybe circle back.

From the show? No. From the show. I mean, like in Whistler. In Whistler, did

develop any?

I didn't develop any connections with Whistler. Is there anyone from the show

that you went on?

This is crazy.

It's not a crime, by the way.

Everyone loves to keep in touch.

Yeah, exactly.

I think everyone chats in the group chat. Sometimes we text each other. No

kept in touch with me.

But I would, you guys.

Exactly.

You can play defense.

Before we move on, obviously, with Pfeiffer not being here, it seems like

got to know Pfeiffer a little bit. Is there anything we need to say or offer

Pfeiffer's behalf before we move on?

I mean, I think Pfeiffer is an amazing girl. I think my heart was, oh, it was a

heartthrob seeing their story. Like, I think that they're both so well -spoken

and articulate.

And I don't know, when I see it, I'm like, oh, my gosh.

We were rooting for you. But I honestly do really resonate with Pfeiffer's

experience back home because I think something people may not think about is

that it's an incredibly unrelatable experience to come home and say that you

this guy who lives in another state and he has two kids and he's older than me

and whatever.

And I am somebody who also takes my friend's opinions very seriously. And

really hard, honestly, to.

tell people about the situation that you're in but you kind of have to keep

under wraps and whatever and frankly it does feel a little bit delusional when

your friends haven't met the person and you really don't have the perfect chance

to prove yourself for your relationship and they haven't even seen it play out

on tv they don't know what your experience was so i understand that that

a really hard thing to bring back home and if you let others opinions get to

or you really sit around and ruminate about what it is you did It can be a bit

of a trip. I'm curious, Andrew, how'd you deal with that? Because like on one

side, I can't totally get what Libby's saying, but it's kind of like, all

man, I'm dating someone younger. I want to know that she can like not be

listening to people. Like I want her to do what she wants to do. How did you

guys strike that balance between like wanting to respect her friendships, but

the same time want to make sure that she was making decisions for herself and

feeling like that was happening?

Well, I mean, if you watch the show, Libby's very outspoken. You know, I

think she's someone that lets, you know, people's opinions get to her so much.

And I met Nina and them again. Like, we've hung out since then. So I think

saw our relationship. They saw how we were together, not just the little bit

that they saw on the show. And they saw that we were, you know.

Very compatible. They saw the love that we had for each other. As a father, I

think that's what I would want to see if there was an age difference.

With one of my daughters dating someone, I'd want to see that person

consistently show up for my daughter and see what that relationship looks like.

And I think as they've seen it, they've been very accepting of it.

Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back to get into it with the

rest of the couple.

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And we're back to the Age of Attraction Season 1 reunion.

And it's time to get into Teresa and John.

Teresa and John, also known as Age of Attraction's Prince Harry and Meghan

Markle, minus the royal drama, were immediately smitten with each other.

But could their fairy tale romance survive a 27 -year age gap? And Teresa's

of outside judgment?

Let's pop the bubble and ask. Well, I want to start with you, Teresa.

Obviously, I think I speak for everyone when we were all rooting for you, as

Tyra Banks famously said.

The audience loves you guys. I think we're all very sad and heartbroken to

that you guys aren't together.

Following that very beautiful ceremony at the top of the mountain, just walk us

through kind of like what happened next in your relationship.

So, yeah, we left Vancouver and we went to Chicago. He came to my...

hometown, met a couple of my friends, stayed with me for a couple of days. We

had a great time. There were, you know, no issues. Everything was great. It was

very sad to see him leave.

And then we went and we met up in New York a couple of weeks later.

And that was sort of like the first time that we really... You went to Naples

first. Oh, you're right. Sorry, my bad. Yeah, we spent Fourth of July in

Florida. Again, met a couple of my friends.

Everything was great.

He came more or less to me.

And yeah, we had a great time. Everything was wonderful.

No cracks in anything.

And then we went to New York.

And it was then that things really started to weigh on me, I guess. And

were some outside influences.

One, the show had kind of broken with the Daily Mail. And there were some

negative things. And I started getting anxious.

The other thing was we went to get drinks with his sister and another one

cast members. And they really made me feel very uncomfortable about my age.

God, I tend to get emotional.

Who made you feel uncomfortable? His sister and the other cast member?

Yeah.

Yeah, I just felt like they were really sort of like focusing on their

ages.

I felt really kind of like left out of conversations.

It almost felt like purposeful in some ways that like they were really trying

like make me feel old.

And I tried to keep my cool and I just couldn't handle it. So

we were supposed to go out to dinner and I actually like felt sick.

So I went back to the hotel and that was when I really like broke down.

I had texted John and told him, you know, I was really upset and everything.

And, you know, his initial response was, you know, very supportive and that we

were going to talk when he got back. And I just kind of tumbleweeded in my

feelings. And I just couldn't get my head back to where it was before.

And the next morning, he and I tried to have a conversation and I tried to.

You know, I was very emotional and tried to express what was going on inside of

me. And I just didn't feel like John could give me the support that I needed.

Like, it was, and no offense, but, like, he just didn't have any words. And I

was, like, sitting there just, like, trying to explain where I was at. And it

was, like, silence.

Do you remember some of the things you were trying to explain?

I know how you were trying to explain it. Yeah, I mean, I was basically

what had happened the night before, and I was saying, you know, like, this is

just too hard.

You know, I was just dying for some support, some, like, reassurance of some

sort, and I didn't get any. And so I was like, well, you have nothing to say, so

I'm going to go. And I went for, like, a walk around Manhattan, and then he left

and went to his sister's, and that was, like, the first really bad.

part of the breakup.

I'm sure. I mean, I'd love to hear your point of view of that story. It was spot

on.

That's exactly what happened.

Do you wish you would have handled it differently?

As you reflect back on that moment, what would you have done different if you

could? I think during this show, I said a million times and two million times,

the age isn't an issue unless we make it an issue.

Sure. And she...

And I'll speak for you, felt uncomfortable being in public and the

people looking at us differently.

That wasn't it at all.

I never felt like that. I never felt like walking down the street, like going

out to dinner, like our two trips prior that we had taken. And even like when we

first got to Manhattan, we went to lunch. I felt like very confident being

to you.

Did not feel like anybody was looking at us. I said that like a few times. I was

like, I don't think anybody like looks at us weird. Like I feel like we look

really good together. And I felt super confident in that.

I think what it really was, and we did have a conversation after that ceremony

on the mountaintop, that we were going to have these kinds of issues. And we

promised each other that we were going to like really be there and support each

other. And that was what I was looking for. And I just didn't know why that it

felt like it had changed for you.

And I, I don't know why, but I felt like the guy who I had seen in Naples who

like literally held me and was like, you tell me what you need. Tell me what you

need was gone. I didn't know where that went, but it wasn't there anymore. So

are you saying you felt like she was making the agent issue and that's why

had nothing to say?

That's what you told me.

What do you mean?

That's what you said. You said you didn't feel comfortable with Catherine

sister, and you felt, and I'll spare some words, you didn't feel good with us

together. I went back to the hotel.

We went to sleep. I woke up the next morning, and you just said, I can't do

anymore. Well, I said a lot more than that.

I'll keep some details out.

I think you just went blank. I don't think you really even could hear me.

No, I heard you. But you didn't say anything.

I was processing everything.

You literally were quiet, and I was sitting there waiting for you to

and you had no response.

I think we discussed age so many times that you deserve to be comfortable with

who you're with, and I deserve the person I'm with to be comfortable with

I think it was just going out in public more often, and each time we got

together. It was the question, and Naples was fun, Chicago was perfect, New

was perfect the first half, and you deserve to be with someone you're 100 %

comfortable in your skin with.

I know that, and I was comfortable with you. I was asking for what it was that

we had promised to each other.

What I feel like I just heard was you said that age wouldn't be a factor

the two of you made it a factor.

And then I'm hearing that at dinner you're sitting with this castmate and

sister kind of making age a factor.

I mean, she deserves to feel, you know, I'm sorry, and I don't know what my

sister was hinting at. I don't know what Catherine was hinting at. That's how

you felt.

Unfortunately, it's yours and I's relationship.

So it doesn't matter what my sister thinks. It doesn't matter what Catherine

thinks.

Well, interesting enough, let's just, for the...

take of assumption, assume that maybe Teresa was projecting or reading it a

certain way, whatever.

But that's how she felt.

And what I'm hearing from Teresa is that she needed her man, her partner, to

hear her out, validate her, talk her through it. And I'm almost hearing from

is it's like, I'm done talking about our age and I got nothing more to say.

And you kind of shut down.

You know, it's like it's one thing to date in a bubble, but you guys are

of a bubble.

And you were going to face some certain realities.

And Teresa was trying to communicate to you, hey, I need this from you. I need

to talk to you.

And it didn't seem like you were having it.

I think the beauty of a relationship is two people that pick each other every

day. And they go through those fights. And you're waking up next to the person.

Oh, they're picking me. I'm picking them.

And I guess we got to a point where we just didn't pick each other. And was

me? Was that us? Was that her?

It didn't work out.

I think, yeah, I think I have to look at myself and maybe I was tired of the age

becoming a factor.

How do we look in public?

How do you feel? Literally, it was the first time it had become a factor.

Leah, you seem... I'm just curious. His story don't add up and she's telling her

truth, which is very interesting.

Why is my story not add up? For what she's saying, for her experience,

you're downplaying everything that she's saying.

And I'm just trying to understand your side because you're like, that didn't

happen. But she's literally saying how she was feeling at the time. And I'm

trying to, it's just so interesting.

I don't think he's downplaying it at all. I think he's taking accountability

it. I don't understand.

I mean, to me, if he has a feeling, I can understand he, you know, the age

factor. He may have gotten warm with it. I don't get it in their relationship

because I think that they had a beautiful relationship.

But I don't think that he's ducking and dodging anything. I think he's talking

about it straight up.

Yeah, I mean, I think he's acknowledging that things don't work out, but it

doesn't feel like he's acknowledging, I guess, this conversation, which is fine

if you don't want to, but it's just more, if you guys don't get back

we'll be sad.

But, you know, again, I hope that we all learn a little bit about ourselves and

our relationships.

And again, I think what I hope, maybe if you're open to it, regardless of what

the topic was, it sounds like age was the topic, but like, you're

that you just shut down emotionally.

And yeah, I totally agree with you. Every day you have to show up and you've

to choose each other, which is real, but it also can kind of be a cliche when

you're just saying it. But in this moment, it sounds like you didn't show

Teresa. You didn't pick her in that moment by saying, how can I be there for

you? It sounds like you quit.

But maybe I'm wrong. That's a breakup, no?

So you broke up with me, essentially.

So you're acknowledging that moment.

Well, if you're saying that that's what it was, that your action was equal to a

breakup, well, what are you saying then?

What?

Was that ultimately what caused the breakup?

That was the initial big swipe, yeah.

I don't deserve to date someone.

who texts me, I feel disgusting with you. I never said that.

I never said that.

Did you take that as something about yourself?

She deserves to be comfortable with who you're with.

I said I was disgusted with myself.

That's terrible. I wouldn't want to date someone who feels like that.

I was looking for you to say, why do you feel this way? And like, let me help

you get through this. I mean, that's what relationships are about. Like you

pick each other every day, but it doesn't mean you don't have conflict.

if you have a conflict, does that mean, oh, I'm not picking you today? No, it

means you work through it.

We had conflict before that.

We had conflict with communication on the phone. And I said, tell me what you

need. And we talked over the phone.

What does that mean, he would disappear?

Like, I would be texting him, and I wouldn't hear back from him for hours.

Did your phone die?

Well, if that's what you're referring to, that one time that I was like, I am

not happy with the way that, like, I'm texting you, you're telling me, like,

you're right there, and yet I don't hear back from you. And I didn't know what

was going on. It's like a Friday night.

I mean, this is a lose -lose situation.

You brought it up. Yeah,

I'm not a big texter.

When we're in a long -distance relationship, we call, we FaceTime.

there's a problem, obviously.

But I think you deserve to be with someone you're comfortable with. So do

So does everybody on the earth. You text me saying that you did not, you felt

disgusting that night.

We went back to the hotel.

I feel bad in that. If I'm your boyfriend and you feel disgusting going

me, That's no fun for either of us.

I agree with you.

Then you work through it.

Sorry, we're having an argument. No, that's fine.

I honestly, again, appreciate you guys being honest, but I'm trying to hear

of you.

We've been in fights.

Sometimes she might say something where I don't agree, or she might talk about

how she's feeling right now and how I might make her feel, but it really

like whatever she said, You just shut down, and I'm just, like, wondering why.

Maybe I was over it.

Okay. Was it the culmination of certain things?

Is a lack of response always shutting down, though? I mean, someone who

struggles speaking and being, like, you've talked about that a lot. I'm not

trying to defend anyone, but is that necessarily shutting down, not

knowing what to answer in that moment?

Now this is different. This is a few months later, but in that moment.

You could always have that conversation later. It's hard.

Yeah, you could if you say let's have this conversation later.

How difficult is that to have a response there as well?

No question. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, you know

need some time to think about this and let's talk in another hour. I hear you.

That didn't happen.

We filmed a show.

That show was centered around age differences. As you all know, you got

that question a lot. It was the focus of the show.

And unless you guys disagree,

it's not Teresa saying post -show this was one of the first times you felt

whatever you felt and brought this to John's attention.

And you're saying in that moment you were over it.

I mean, we had discussions before. There was stuff said over text that I didn't

appreciate about.

Like what?

You felt bad stealing my youth.

That was that night that we had that conversation.

It was beforehand. I don't really feel comfortable airing this out.

Okay. Well, that's why we're here.

Well, it sounds like the two of you were able to at some point reconnect if this

was just the first swipe at a breakup. So what were the following days like

after this?

Do you want to talk? You can talk. Okay. So the next – actually, that morning

after I took my walk.

And I had a clear head. I did contact John and I was like, I'm really sorry

my feeling overwhelmed.

And, you know, I apologize.

And we talked a little bit about like what we were doing that day.

The next morning, he came back to the hotel and we had breakfast.

We had a great conversation.

We went on a walk.

He was leaving that day. I was staying in New York. We gave each other a hug

a kiss goodbye, like a real kiss, not on the cheek.

And we went our separate ways. And then I thought we were doing good. We were

back. And it didn't turn out to be that way. Then that next week, we again had

like some bad communication issues. I brought up something that I was curious

about with regard to an Instagram thing and didn't hear from him. What

Instagram thing?

I'd just rather not mention it.

because I don't think it's relevant.

But it was just something that I had seen that I was like, what is this? And

reached out to John, and he did not reply for like an hour. And then I got

three words, and that was it. And so I called, didn't pick up,

nothing.

And then the next day, I write him again, and he totally ghosts me.

And I didn't talk to him for weeks.

What was his three -word response?

It was something like, don't worry about it.

Very vague.

John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment?

Was that a growl?

Did you think you were in a relationship at that point? No.

Okay. When was this? What month are you talking about?

I mean, you got to speak your truth.

Yeah. Yeah, explain. I would love to hear.

I... You got pretty nasty with me.

After that, yeah.

You got pretty nasty with me. I did. And I want to be totally respectful and I

want to support you through this journey.

And maybe I didn't communicate with you in the moment when you needed it, but I

want to support you now.

That being said, with... Some of the communication we had post -breakup, if

were not in this bubble and we didn't have to support each other right now,

which I do want to support you, with the way you communicated with me and the

things you said, I don't think we would ever speak again.

Okay. I mean, I was very frustrated when I left you that voice memo. I said some

things that I regret, and I said that later.

That is sometimes what happens when you are ghosted.

We were broken up.

I didn't think we were.

I apologize.

We never really declared that we were broken up, and we had continued to talk.

It's kind of semantics, but at the end of the day, we're all adults, and I'm

just like, did you expect a response from whatever question you asked?

Yeah, and it was actually me trying to, in some ways, protect you because I saw

some things that I was like, I don't think you're going to want, you know.

Out there.

I'll comment.

Jorge, is there anything?

I'm not in the business of speaking to people's relationships. I don't think

that John is speaking his authentic truth because I think he's protecting

Teresa, which I respect.

And so if this man's going to choose to protect her, I'm all for it because I'm

all about protecting relationships.

And I understand it, but I think that there's... That's so not...

Fair. First of all, you're like gaslighting a little bit here because

nothing I need protection of. I take full responsibility for what it was that

said in that voice memo. And if you want to play it and you want to air all of

our dirty laundry, let's do it. I'm not. I don't. Once again, I was being just

as respectful to him as he is claiming to be to me with protecting me and

supporting me.

So, I mean, I'm holding back some information.

He's. You know, saying that he is protecting me by maybe not saying that I

nasty in that voice memo.

I don't know. I mean, listen, every healthy couple has had to apologize.

You know, hey, I'm sorry I've been an asshole.

I'm sorry I've been whatever.

But I think what we're talking about here is how you guys communicated or

communicate.

You seem like a great guy, and the guy I got to know filming, like, I really

enjoyed my time. And just watching it back, you were always showing up for

Teresa. You seemed like this really empathetic, really understanding guy.

The guy sitting here right now, I'm not getting that same energy. I'm getting,

like, I was over it, whatever.

And what am I missing?

You – I just – You don't want to say anything? I don't know.

No.

I mean, you guys fell in love on TV. Yeah, and, like, I will 1 ,000 % say,

John is an amazing guy.

I mean, we had our issues, and there were things, and that was the demise of

relationship. And, like, yeah, we're getting emotional and a little heated

but at the end of the day, like, I thought you were an amazing guy, man,

whatever, on the show. I still think you are.

I just think our communication fell apart.

I don't really know what happened, but my only thing that I would say is that,

like, you got to learn how to communicate better. I don't know. I

saying I'm perfect, but I really care about you. I always have over this last

nine months.

So, you know, I'm not here to, like, trash you. I'm not here to, like, dig up

bad stuff.

But I think that you are very closed off right now. And I think when we were on

the show and we were together.

You were very open. You were very comfortable.

And that's why we flowed so well. And I don't know.

That's just my take.

Yeah, I'll admit that, yeah, maybe I did shut down at the hotel. I did.

And did you deserve better communication?

100%. But I think in that moment, if we're being truthful with each other, I

probably just fed up with age being an issue, with you not feeling comfortable

together. I don't want to date someone who feels gross next to me.

And that text hurt. I was out with my sister. We had a reservation for three,

her favorite restaurant. That text hurt me because you deserve to feel

comfortable with whoever you're dating. No, I agree. I agree. Yeah, I just shut

down. Yeah, I did. And I didn't communicate.

And the lines were very blurry after that walk. After breakfast the next

morning, they were very blurry.

And hindsight's 20 -20.

Say, no, we're not doing this.

You know, we need some space and just shut it down.

Maybe we rekindle in a couple weeks. But I didn't. And we didn't. And that the

lines were, it was a little gray. And I do regret that.

All right. Well, I appreciate that.

Do you think age played a role in your guys' demise?

Yes. In what way?

I just think that we didn't have the communication skills that we needed.

And I think the distance definitely had a huge part in it because, you know,

when you live across the country from each other, you can't just be like,

go grab coffee and go for a walk and, like, talk through this or whatever.

Like, it's telephone. And as he said, he doesn't like to text.

So if you don't have those basic communication skills, like, what do you

What did you learn about yourself in this process, John?

Funny. I thought I could communicate in the bubble, and I feel like Teresa

allowed me to have extremely hard conversations. I would consider myself

anxiously attached, and that's something I'm working on.

And in the bubble, when the kids came, she kind of shut down and went in

her separate part of the house, and I was chasing after her. I was like,

wrong? What can I do for you? And she's like, John, just let me have my space.

I'm fine.

The kids are coming. I just need my space.

And it made me think, fuck, nothing's wrong with us.

I'm just, oh, Teresa's gone, and that's not healthy. She needs her space.

And I remember she was on the stove, and I was like, how can I be here for you

right now? And she said, I just need my space. And that was the first time I was

allowed to have a really hard and uncomfortable conversation because it

I was anxiously attached.

I thought I did something wrong. She was in the bathroom throwing up.

And I text, she was like, just leave me alone. And nothing's wrong with our

relationship in that moment.

I just need to learn to be, you know, confident in what we had.

And I've learned that. I know I'm anxiously attached.

And she allowed me to have hard conversations.

Did I fail later on?

Yeah, it definitely wasn't the best communication. But in the experience,

made me a lot better, selfishly.

I can thank her for that.

Did that attachment style carry on throughout after filming?

Yeah, I mean, not to be the guy that talks about baseball all the time, and,

know, it's glory years.

Baseball was ripped away from me, so I've taken that into relationships, and

it's not healthy.

I think our breakdown was communication, and I think not to make excuses, it's

easier when you're living with each other in the bubble.

It's easier if you live in the same city. I think that's just common sense.

I'm proud of us for taking a really realistic approach to it. I did at

think, and I'm not going to speak for her.

But, yeah, I think communication was a breakdown.

I'm curious, just reflecting on this relationship, how will you work on your

attachment style or whatever it is that causes you to shut down when things get

difficult?

Just be confident in the relationship you built with that person.

Be secure.

And I think I was secure in Vancouver and in Whistler with her.

That was kind of like the honeymoon.

What I'm hearing is it was fun. It was great. There was this huge chemistry.

But when shit hit the fan, you cut and run.

Shit hit the fan a couple weeks before New York.

Whenever. No, I know. We had some conversations that I didn't like over

phone, and I was like, we're going to talk about this in person.

And then we went to New York.

Did you talk about those things in person in New York, or did they kind of

be brushed under the rug?

You text me that you felt bad when we were away, and you wanted me to see

people.

No, I asked you if you wanted to, and if you did, I said, please just be honest

with me.

I didn't appreciate that because it's not something I do in a relationship.

It's not something. I was just kind of giving you sort of an opening or an

opportunity to be because we didn't have great communication. Again, like you

don't like to text.

Our phone calls were very far and few between. I felt like there was this

distance that was growing.

And so I was like, huh, maybe he wants to start dating other people. And so I

was like, let me just throw this out there and see what how his response was.

And you were like, no, absolutely not. And I didn't realize that my asking that

question would have made you upset. You didn't tell that to me.

So, you know, I was literally just trying to like fish to see what was

because I didn't know where we were at a variety of times after we left Naples,

more or less.

Karitha, I got to ask about your kids.

Obviously, they played a big role in your feelings and your decision.

Did your kids ever find out how old John was?

They just found out. They just found out? Uh -huh.

Wow. From watching the show back?

Pretty much, yeah. And why did you never tell them?

Well, John and I had broken up, and, you know, I just didn't, I was like, what's

the point now? Like, nobody.

They weren't curious?

I mean, they're living their own lives. Like, my youngest was starting his first

job in New York. You know, like, everybody's up doing their own thing.

not, like, in mom's house, like.

What's going on?

So I just didn't bring it up to them. And then, yeah, on Monday with the

or the little poster thing with our ages under our feet, I was like, oh, look,

Lauren, like they color corrected my skirt.

She's like, oh, my God, he's 27.

I was like, oh, shit. Like, I forgot that was there. And then my son just

me. I think it was this morning or yesterday. Like, I saw the first episode

I'm really shocked at.

how young he is.

And, you know, my response was, he's a great guy.

He, you know, is a lot more mature than what his age is. Obviously, you met him.

You got to know him.

And, you know, we're not together. So I guess you don't have to worry about

that. And I was, like, concerned that his friends were embarrassed.

Looking back, obviously, I know I remember that infamous dinner.

Leah had something to say. It's okay.

It's okay.

But listen, like, obviously, it was all your guys' journey to do whatever you

want. But I do think Leah, you know, made a point in the sense that, like,

like, if your kids play that much of a role in your dating life, and it makes a

lot of sense,

wouldn't it make sense to tell them? Because what if they didn't accept how

John was at the time? And here you are falling in love with this guy.

Wasn't that putting your relationship with John in a sticky position by not

being up front with your kids, knowing that what they think means a great deal

to you? I don't mean to cut you off. I think it's a double standard with us

versus the people with kids.

Because what if someone falls in love and then a year later meets the kids and

the kids don't like the partner?

Same thing with us. We weren't allowed to.

go through our journey without her getting scrutinized for not revealing my

but it's really the same thing. It's a big part of her life. It's a big part of

a partner's life who has kids.

So they get the path of... She has kids.

No, I know, but they get the path... The people with younger kids who didn't

come to the... Yeah, they get the path on not introducing the partner to the

kids, but when she doesn't want to reveal my age, she gets shit for it.

and to add on to that, what I was going to say is that... I totally respect

Andrew and Derek's choice not to introduce or whatever.

However, I also am in that situation, regardless of the fact that my kids are

maybe seven, eight years older than yours.

They came to the show. Obviously, you could see how nervous that was for me

because I do not introduce my kids to partners casually at all, and I was

to do that. So I had to swallow that.

and deal with it.

And so the fact that that was a huge thing for me, and then on top of it, I'm

supposed to say, oh, by the way, he's two years younger than you, Richard.

That was a lot for me. I totally get it's a lot. The question still stands.

just curious, knowing that it does mean a lot to you what they think.

Is there a world where we do throw a lot at you? Obviously, it was a very weird

situation. I totally get that. But I'm just wondering, when you watch it back,

is there a lane where it would have made sense just to kind of tell them?

Because if they didn't accept them, what would have happened if they didn't

accept them? So the reason why, let me give you my train of thought. So again,

to go back to, I met John, I had no idea how old he was, really was drawn to

him, had feelings, blah, blah, blah, right?

Then I find out how old he is and I'm like, oh my God, okay, well, now I have

this like inner argument with myself.

If my kids who are in their 20s, had gotten to know john and

learned what a great guy he is just like i did and saw how strong our

relationship and saw all those good things and then they found out and they

like oof i'd be like yeah but let's have this intellectual argument now does age

matter because he's got all of these qualities and i get it but these are the

reasons why i chose him and i still chose him after i knew his age and i

you guys to also Think about that. And that's the conversation I would have had

after they got to know him.

Teresa, when you met John's mom and sister, you left and they stayed and

had a conversation.

His sister said that you not telling them about having children was off

and weird. How did that feel to watch that back?

I mean, it hurt.

John and I had had a conversation prior to getting together with our friends and

family, and we both said that we were not going to say those things. We were

going to, you know, I mean, roll back.

We literally say, like, we're not going to say ages and we're not going to talk

about the kids. And so it was okay when I found out that he had said, like, oh,

yeah, you know, she's got kids or whatever.

I just didn't think it was part of the plan.

So that's part of the reason why I didn't say those things. But, I mean, if

had known that we were wanting to do that, I would have done it.

Okay. Is there any love still there?

Are you guys in love with each other?

Is there any chance at rekindling?

I mean, I think I will always really care about John, and I think what we had

was real.

But I think...

We've learned that we're not compatible.

John, do you feel like age played a role in your relationship ending?

I don't.

I don't think it was age.

I think it was communication.

I think it was, I think, I'll speak for myself, we all go to Jorge, and we spent

so much time together during this process. He's taught me a lot that

matter.

Communication is key, as cheesy as that sounds.

So I think if I would have shown up and communicated clearly with her, we could

have talked through those things.

Was it me giving up?

Yeah, I think that you can paint that picture.

I don't think it was just age that broke us up.

Well, thank you for being so vulnerable and honest about y 'all's relationship.

Leah and Chris's 15 -year age gap relationship begged the question, can

a boy into a man?

And after a season of ups and downs, flight attendant Leah came to the

realization that Chris might not be as worldly as she hoped.

Leah, how did it feel knowing that you were ready to commit and he was not?

For me, it was shocking because everything that he told me to my face

he was in it.

Because what you don't see is that he actually met my sister -in -law.

And we had a great time.

And he talked about how into me he was and all these things about getting to

know me. And then we also meet his mom the next day.

And then as you see what she said, she said, you look so happy.

You heard that, right? Yeah. And then in two seconds, he's like, I'm so

stressed. I was like, you wasn't stressed two minutes ago.

Not two minutes, but, yeah, I mean, more like 45 minutes.

You know, but you feel me, though. Yeah, I feel you. So it's like, once again,

it's like it's just all like a facade. It's like some lies, you know, because I

didn't know he had all these feelings because he didn't tell me.

So watching that moment back with his mom, that caught you completely off

Yeah, because we were in a good place when I had walked away. Like, me and his

mom had a great chat.

Did we not?

Okay, cool. I got, you know, but we did. And we, um, she understood. I think her

biggest concern was like, I've lived alone.

They're used to being around their family. I was like, I love hanging out

having parties. I was like, but does the door lock? You know what I mean? But,

but that was like her biggest thing. And about children. And I was like, I've

never pressed him for a relationship, children. I just was like, we can just

date. Cause I don't know from him, like from what he was always telling me, it's

like he was in.

And he was having issues, but it never had to do with me.

It was about the sleep, being sleep deprived, all these filming issues. You

what I mean? It was never like, Leah, it's you.

You're the problem.

He never said that to me. Because if he had, what you don't know is my best

friend lost her mom two days into Vancouver.

And I found that out.

So for me, it's like, I never needed him.

My girlfriend needed me. I could have bounced if I knew that's what he was

pushing. You know what I mean?

So for me, he was very selfish in that to not just tell me the truth. Because I

remember I sat down with him. I felt him pulling away about maybe a few days in

because the whole sleep stuff.

And I was like, hey. I sat him down on the couch. And I was like, do you like

me?

And he said, yes. It's not you. It's the situation. I was like, okay.

Then I'll ride with you.

Because once I ask you once, I don't need to ask you six times, like, do you

like me? Like, you say you like me, then I'll ride with you.

And I won't talk bad about you. And I will keep it. Like you heard me in our,

had like a meeting with the crew about some stuff. And I was like, I fought for

him. I was like, he's not sleeping. He doesn't go to the gym. He doesn't get to

tan. You know what I mean?

But at the end of the day, it's like, that wasn't even my fight to fight.

Hi, Chris.

I'm just watching it back. I am curious, you know.

For those watching or listening, during filming, as you guys know, we took your

phones away.

We really wanted you guys to focus on your relationships. You have this

time. So the whole part of the experiment is to really lean in.

And so I'm just curious, Chris, like during this phase, why it seemed like

weren't leaning in to this experience.

And last time I had a chance to talk with you, you talked about, I think your

explanation was you wanted to give Leah a glimpse into what your life was like.

But at the same time, couldn't you have just told her, hey, normally I work out,

normally I tan, normally I nap. But like, why were you so reluctant to use

this very limited time that you guys had to really lean in to see what your

connection was about? Yeah. So addressing that question more first

anything, talking about my routine, that was an excuse to not.

sneaking out of the apartment and going and doing what the other couples were

doing because you know it seemed like the other couples were having a great

and having fun i'm not trying to sorry that's not what i was that's not what i

was saying in other words we're not going out of our way to spend more time

each other which i hear you on that right like we're not what do you mean by

that meaning like instead of hey tonight we have kind of an off night and

tomorrow we don't have much to do instead of let's maybe go to a bar and

something to eat My choice was let's just stay in and maybe we watch it on TV

and cook. And I hear you with what you're trying to say, but that was my

response to that about the whole routine. That's why my response to you

well, I guess I also told you in this reality, like I felt like I was almost

working at one point, right? Like trying to keep myself healthy and also

struggling with the sleep. You remember we were talking about that.

Because they casted you to be the gym guy. Yes, that's what you said.

Well, and that's not right, and that's not fair for you, so I hear you on that.

But I don't think that it's fair to say that I wouldn't leave him. Wait, he said

that they casted him to be the gym guy? I don't remember saying that.

If I did, it's not what I, I don't remember saying that, but I don't think

matters. Okay.

I mean, somebody's got to do bicycle rolls, I guess. They cast you to find

It did matter.

I know, but I don't remember saying that. And regardless of whether they

for that, obviously I'm there to find love. I hear you.

Okay, so with that said.

Rest of the cast, do you think he was there to find love? Go ahead. If you

he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hand.

What I will say, like, honestly, also, like, being in that experience, like, I

also watching, like, the last finale episodes, you can clearly tell, like,

Chris, like, you honestly didn't like Leah. Like, let's just keep the book.

didn't at all. And you never expressed that to her. All the things you told

mom, you never expressed that to her face ever.

And I think that was unfair. Like Leah was literally there, like so into you

literally in that experience with you. And you just, you didn't like her, but

she didn't say that to her. I also think it's unfair for, especially from the

inside, from everyone here to say that when you saw how invested I was and you

saw me on off days and you saw him, when you say I wasn't leaning into it, I was

still there because I was leaning into it. We had a great time with her.

Obviously, you know, the edit, there was not much shown there. We get into this,

what seemed a little more out of the bubble, but we're still in a bubble.

Three, four days in, I felt like I was over it at that point. Over what?

The whole thing, the whole experience. I was struggling with Leah. I think it

was very clear how much we were struggling. I don't know how it's

anybody could say that I was completely hiding that and showing that. I know

that I wouldn't show on TV, but there's no one here that didn't see me that

Sunday and said, what's wrong, Chris? Not one person.

Well, what I'm hearing from you, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that when

talked, when she would check in with you, you would blame it on the show

production the weirdness of it all that so then the next monday we had a date

that didn't show was the shopping date that's that's when the turn changed this

is we moved on thursday into into vancouver we had off this sunday this is

days into filming in vancouver so we have a date that morning i was told you

need a voice for the first time i was struggling i didn't want to talk

i didn't want to do all that that morning that interview was not my best

interview i was trying through the interview i'm really happy it didn't

wasn't feeling good we go into instead of being able to have a great

conversation we went into a shopping day we get there it's a boutique that

honestly i didn't you know i don't think that she was into because she very was

very clear about that i'm not really like this isn't a place i would shop

like this which i'm glad we found something nice but regardless i mean

life bro cool i know and i show up you know well i mean

well i i definitely showed up I definitely showed up because when I was

we went through shopping. We went through dresses. And I was struggling at

point. And it was very clear I was struggling. And one of the few things

kept saying was like, well, you're living your best life out here. I'm not.

had an off day the day before. And we were on the pool.

And I spent maybe an hour and a half by myself. She was struggling with a lot.

And to be honest with you, I didn't want her to feel like I'm having a good time

while she's struggling but also need you to have your space. That was the moment

you were on the phone, right?

And I was in the corner in the pool. It wasn't until the last 15 minutes that

Andrew sat on the floor in the pool, in the corner, and said, dude, that's when

we had that conversation.

Hey, I know you're struggling. Everyone sees that you're struggling.

You're going to get through this, and you're going to be better for this. Five

minutes later, all the boys are sitting next to me.

Ten minutes later, Leah walks up, and she sees me having a great time laughing

with the boys.

Next day, we're at this date, and as she's trying on clothes, she's talking

about how I'm living my best life. And I go in there, you know, kind of throwing

shade, it kind of felt like.

Anyway, we're walking out.

And, you know, I was asked about, you know, who's paying for this whole thing

from the outside perspective.

And I was like, you know, that's my, I'm not, if I ever, ever take somebody on a

date, I'm taking on a date, whether it's food, whether it's shopping, because

this is me. And I felt like once I voiced her head, like, hey, this is me,

whatever you want, fine. But just so you understand, you know, we're walking

out, she's grabbing these clothes. And then she's like, oh, but we didn't even

look at jewelry yet.

After we already, I know she's joking, but after she already told me she didn't

like any of this jewelry, right? So it's like, it felt like she was not on my

side at that point. It felt like no one was on my side when I'm clearly trying

to lean into this at this point. I'm giving everything I have at this point.

Chris, did you like her? Did you like her?

I just want to know. Because you're still not saying like.

Can I ask you this? Did you like her?

Dude, I wouldn't have stayed there if I didn't like her at that point. Okay,

when you were in Vancouver, did you have feelings for her?

Of course. Of course I had feelings for her. What are you talking about?

I'm just asking. Four days in, I wanted to go home.

And that's the reality.

But why did you want to go home? Because I didn't think it was working. I

thought the age gap was too far for us. And I thought that it was creating an

unnecessary pressure. But why not just own that?

Chris, I love you as a friend. And I hear what you're saying about the

date and stuff. But everyone was out of their routine.

We were tanning. We were going to the gym. I was there. You were there.

Leah did not deserve you pretending like you liked her so that you came off as a

nice guy and to be strung along. It was not fair to her at all. And you could

see her genuine emotion and her genuine connection. And here she was believing

your words, but everybody else could see it. Those weren't your intentions. And

it was really, really sad watching that back to see how much you liked him.

And I think everybody was thinking the same thing. That was really sad to see

and how you were just.

You just wanted to come off as a nice guy. But I hear what you're saying about

the shopping date. I know that's frustrating, but we were all out of a

Let me just tell you why I did what I did with the shopping date.

Because you literally told me maybe like a day before. Remember, I listened to

everything you said. You literally told me you took a girl that you didn't even

date and you bought her a Prada bag.

Yeah, but I was. Look. Right.

But it was $400, y 'all.

If I had my, I got this little, but yeah.

$400. And then you bragged about how much you spent on your grocery bill.

Did he not?

$600. So you bragged about all this stuff, and if you liked me, it's like,

whatever you want, these items, we shop together, cool.

That's why I was like, yeah, add the jewelry too. But you told me that you

didn't like it. That's why I was hurt by it. But you told me, I was like, this

is cute. I will find something cute in this store. I hear you, but you got my

thing there. You said you didn't even like the girl that you brought the Prada

bag. How much Prada do you think, yo? That was a conversation about another

relationship. This was a $400, baby.

It wasn't that serious. Okay, I want to take a pause because everybody kind

of... Getting at Chris right now.

John, Chris, and I, we're dating older women, right? And I think you just saw

just now with John and his struggle to find his words, even with the story he

told when he was on the phone.

You know, Teresa was saying he shut down.

When you're dating a woman that's older and strong and powerful, she's used

to living her life a certain way.

And sometimes, you know, being single in the world, it's a mean world, you talk

to people a certain way.

And when you go back to a relationship, sometimes that doesn't always translate.

And so the partner doesn't always feel like they can communicate back. So as

much as, yeah, he didn't tell Leah, was he struggling because he really wanted

to push to make it work?

I'm sure. But I think what's coming across right now, and Chris knows I love

him. I just want Chris to speak his truth. And I think that the women are

you weren't being truthful.

concerned with. I get it what they're saying. I understand wholeheartedly what

they're saying. You aren't truthful. And I just want Chris to speak your truth.

And it's okay. Whatever your truth is. I don't want to speak for Leah, but I

think if Leah felt like whatever your truth was, she'll live with it. I did.

All I want you to do is just speak your truth. Whatever it is, I ride with you.

I ride with you ten toes down. If you were struggling like that, I think it

would have helped Leah.

And help you. If you would have been like. Rather than saying. I want to go

the gym. And this production.

Look. I am struggling with you. Yeah. This is what you're doing. To affect me.

And then you give her that opportunity.

To fix it. And talk to you about it. And y 'all can grow from it. If it's. You

know. If it's meant to be. So.

But you're not doing that. But that's the thing too. Is. He did voice it. And

that's why. After a few days. Could have happened faster. I can give you credit

for that. But this is why. BF really is like. Yeah.

But like I said, my best friend lost her mom.

And that was like a mom to me.

I remember you had voice that you said, you know, I just want to be alone at

night. I was like, cool.

I remember I gave you your space at night all the time, right? You watched

You did your thing. I went to bed. I left you alone.

Yes, I joined you in cooking sometimes just to have that wee time. But I

remember going to bed.

I cried so hard.

And then I felt guilty for bringing it to you while you were on the couch

watching TV.

So I literally remember, I do remember me asking, I was like, is it okay if I

sit next to you or like sit near you? So I sat on the opposite side of the

couch.

And I, while you watched me, I just sat there. I didn't cry.

I just sat.

And if that makes me overbearing or clingy, then it is what it is. But like

that moment, yes, I would have wanted my partner to be like, are you okay? I

know you're struggling right now.

You know what I mean? But instead, through this process, I'm protecting

coddling you when I needed that.

And I'm like, you've come to me as like a victim a lot of the times.

And at the end of the day, I'm a victim.

Like you played me. You know what I mean? And I'm like, in the real world, I

would never get played because I have options.

I didn't need you. I wanted you around.

Do you know what I'm saying?

And in this process, when I talked to my friend, I was like, I will come home

for you because I don't need to be here.

She said, me and my mom would have wanted you to do this because this could

your chance to find someone.

So that's why I stayed extra long, because you kept telling me to my face

you want to do this for us.

And then I would hear every little thing, some little things that you would

And it's like, it would just be like a little different. But then once you know

what I mean, but this is a different world. I was like, well, on TV, he's

probably getting nervous with his words. But I wanted to give you the benefit of

the doubt.

And I thought like, you know, you say people say you date the potential of a

man. And I was because I know you're a good person. You don't mean harm, but

did harm, you know, and I just want you to just take that ownership to know.

I'm bloody. I'm telling you, like for someone to say is like I was clean and

friend needed me. I'm like her best friend, like her own, like, you know

mean? And like you took that from me.

I'm sorry.

Looking back, do you think you were reckless with Leah's feelings?

Yeah.

And in that pool, that pool day that we had everyone, I think I remember Andrew

coming over. He said, are you okay?

And I said, I'll be fine, but I give me some time. And I don't even think you

even checked on me. That's why I said, you're out here living your best life.

Cause I was literally on that, on that thing.

But I hear you. I mean, you know how much I was feeling for that because you

know me.

With what I just dealt with two years ago, you know how much I was feeling.

I'm sorry that that's how you feel. That's why I wish you made sure everyone

around you was good and happy except for the person who was living with you.

Leah, did Chris know that you were going to say yes at the final ceremony?

No. I ended up changing my mind. So I was going to say no. And then I wanted

After dinner, we had a great conversation.

I remember, like, mind you, we had the mom, my sister -in -law that all had

great. great endings.

And I was like, okay, he understands where I'm coming from. He finally gets

I'm trying to tell him. And he literally, he's like, literally, you

like, you made me a better man. I was like, I'm not trying to make you a

man for the next person. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to like, I

just, I see you. I get what a good person you can be. And that's what I'm

saying. Like when you're on, you're on, but you like live in your head and it

just turns and spins. You're thinking about so much far in advance, which is

beautiful, but like you just have to live in the present.

What did you think Chris was going to say at the commitment ceremony?

I knew he was going to say no.

I went. I felt that the day he left, I felt like our goodbye, it wasn't like a

normal goodbye that you would be like, oh, I like all the other couples. Like,

oh, my God, I miss you so much. He was like, I was racing to get out. And I was

like, dang, you know, I get you stressed and all, but you know, that's why when

I was like, you're going to miss me. I was like, I'm just now I'm just messing

with you because I know you're not going to miss me. You can't wait.

You're running out the door, you know? Chris, last time we had you on the show,

you caught me off guard because you kind of kept referencing this desire of

being on reality TV.

You had mentioned, I forgot how you said it, but you talked about... I think he

was 18.

You thought you were ready for reality television, and then here you are at 27.

Feeling like I'm not ready, right? Yeah, I wasn't sure what you said, but it

really caught me off guard because you were just talking about this desire

specifically going on reality TV, which is not a crime. But obviously, given

this show and given how real it is for people and what they sacrifice showing

up, I'm just wondering.

Did your desire to be on reality TV supersede your consideration for these

feelings? I don't think so. And when you talk about desire to be on reality TV,

I was talking about full circle.

I was 17 years old. I thought I was going to be on Survivor. I dropped out

school because I thought I was going to be on the show.

Never went on. But six months later, started charity with my friend that was

the show, whatever. We started traveling.

I wouldn't have dropped out of school if that didn't happen. I would have

started the business that I started. I would have never. I started working out

after surgery because I thought I was going to be on Survivor as a 17 -year

-old. Started my fitness journey. That was season, I think, 32. Now it's season

50, and they're doing the celebration for the same person from the show that

casted me. So I just was referencing how I thought that was full circle. I was

referencing how I thought I was so ready back then, but going into this show, I

didn't feel ready. It almost felt scary.

And as far as sacrificing what went into it, I was.

Those three days, those four days, all I was thinking was I wanted to make sure

that when I left this, I wouldn't, especially her family, because I hadn't

them yet, that we would both be able to watch this and be proud of what we

watched and how we treated each other.

So before I say anything else, I am going to take ownership to that and what

just talked about. I'm not going to beat around the bush, and I'm sorry if

that's playing with your emotions, all of this. This is not what the intention

was. a few days into Vancouver because I think it was very clear what we had in

Whistler. And I thought that was really cool. And it changed a little bit. I

wanted to go home. It didn't matter the money. It didn't matter the time. It

didn't matter the screen. What money?

You know, whatever it is. You're getting paid to be on TV or you're doing this

and that. That didn't matter anymore.

Guys, I'm just... I'm just your words, man. You know what I'm saying. It

matter what I'm doing. I said it doesn't matter what we're out here for. I'm

here. I don't want to be here anymore. And I'm struggling with this. And I

the... The next morning was the most difficult day for us, which was that

shopping day and afterwards.

Well, I do want to clear up for anyone listening or watching. No one here got

paid except for us.

And people truly showed up sincere, wanting to meet real connections and

people and see what they had in common. Quick question. Sure.

I have to get this off my chest.

This is something that I heard when we were filming.

And I just want to ask if anybody else had heard this, and sorry, Chris, but

at our mixer, the first mixer, right after we got back from our wine

date, there was talk that you had approached a couple, maybe just one

lady, I don't even know who it was, and said something to the effect of, hey, do

you want to make a pact to be together?

So that we can get to the end.

Was that true? Or did anybody else hear that? Yes, we heard it. Oh, you did?

Okay. So I'm not crazy. Correct. I was approached myself with that.

And I'm not going to say who it was, but I was approached myself with that.

And if you want to talk about PAC, the only thing I would ever speak about when

it comes to that was my...

being uncomfortable with sleeping with somebody and talking about my celibacy,

which wasn't shown.

That's why me and Leah were so comfortable. That's why we talked about

know, moving in, we're going to have some boundaries.

Well, going all the way from several years ago, and that's not a joke. You're

longer anymore?

Right now, I'm not, no.

Were you guys celibate?

We did not have sex. Okay.

But we did mess around.

Once. Okay. Not oral.

Not a big deal.

But that's his digress. But yes, I've heard that a lion's thing.

I mean, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but it's relevant to what it is that

we're talking about. Is there anyone else who wants to speak on this thing

Teresa brought up? Can we get a definition of celibacy?

First of all, celibacy and abstinence are two different things. Celibacy is a

lifestyle like a nun or a priest. It means I'm never going to go there. I'm

going to be romantic.

I'm not going to do anything.

Abstinence is for a set period of time, like you're saying, well, for religious

reasons or for my own clarity, I'm not having sex until this.

set period of time or this event.

So like with Vanellis, you think she's abstinent. So there's the difference.

It's often confused, but celibacy is a nun or priest. That's not what we're

dealing with here.

Abstinence is what we're dealing with on here. And you could be abstinent for a

damn day. You could be abstinent for, you know, a reason. As you all know, all

the men, we have a close relationship and I've talked to Chris and I, he even

said when we were in Vancouver to me, yo, I'm struggling.

I assume.

That's something that between them and they talk. Just like I assume any of our

relationships. It's funny that the ones that have broken down, it's

communication. And it's not ageist communication.

And the ones that are succeeding, they're seemingly able to communicate.

Now, I do feel, I mean, I think Teresa and John, look, they loved on each

I think everybody loved on each other. I do think that Leah deserved that.

And I do think that.

I think that the best of Chris would do that. For whatever reason that he

checked out, the one person that you owed to tell I'm checking out is to her.

But this is a life thing, man. We all make mistakes.

So I always still give Chris grace.

But I guess it's a learning experience.

I mean, this is the ride or die. You know what I'm saying?

My first protection was Vanilla, just like his was with Treece and his was

Libby and with Pfeiffer and with Vanessa. I think all the women kind of

that, yo, they had men that were in it with them. I think Leah thinks you ghost

her. And I just think it's a learning moment. Yeah, that's fair.

We do have to move on and we want to get to our happy couple. But we do have one

more big announcement to make that, Chris, you will be on next season of

Match. Do you hope to find your love there?

Yeah, that's the plan.

That's the plan. I messed this one up a little bit. I'm still grateful. And

Leah, to close that, I thank you for where we're at. Thank you for speaking

truth and hearing me. And I'm sorry for where we're at and how long it took to

get here.

But yeah, that's the idea. And I'm going in with the same mindset. I'm going to

try to be myself.

I'm going to try to be open, try to talk to as many people as I can

authentically. And if I find love, what a blessing. Can we expect a different

Chris? I hope so. I hope you see a more authentic Chris. I hope you see more of

me. and more my character, for sure. Okay. All right. I am myself, and on

show I've been myself. I was struggling with speaking my thoughts, and I hope

that you see a better communicative Chris on the next one. Okay.

For Vanessa and Logan's 20 -year age difference, they found love as hot and

passionate as the Fourth of July, even if it took a little while to ignite.

And as we always say here at The Vile Files, all you need is love, some pink

lipstick, and a confusing fake -out proposal.

That proposal was one for the ages. It was. It really was.

I mean, you've been engaged four times. That was the best one. That's one.

You can't beat that one. In your previous four proposals, and no shade

had a few engagements before I met my lovely wife.

But in your previous proposals, did you ever say, my friends were right about

you?

Yeah. I should have trusted my gut.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I did not say that.

Okay, have we set a wedding date? What is engagement looking like for you two?

No, we haven't set a wedding date. We're planning to move in first, and our

bogey's next fall.

So either she comes to Dallas or I go to Ohio. I've looked at jobs in Ohio, or

we start somewhere new.

So that's kind of our bogey.

Well, I mean, again, I think, you know, watching it back, a lot of people didn't

believe in you guys. Did you guys break up during filming?

Was that not real?

We had a little bump in the road. Okay.

Yeah. A little bit about my history. I would go on like three dates with a guy

and one little thing would go wrong and I would run away. And I did that with

Chris, you know, when I was talking to Chris. I was like, yep, that's it. I'm

out of here. And then I...

caught myself doing that with Logan over the whole optics thing, you know, like

I was ready to shut down and I had to come to Jesus moment where I was like,

this is what you always do. You shut down, you push someone away. And we had

good conversation and I was like, okay, you know, there's a good guy behind

here. I'm not going to run away. I'm going to push past my limitations.

Okay. Well, again, you guys, you know, you're here today. You're engaged.

How have you been able to make this relationship work?

It's constant communication, constant understanding and compromise on both

sides.

I'm not going to lie and sit here and pretend like it's all been roses and

butterflies because it hasn't. I mean, you know, we're in a distance

relationship and it's been tough. And what you see on the show, you know, you

see a lot of turmoil, a lot of up and down.

That's translated into real life, but at the end of the day, we've always come

back and met each other and strengthened our relationship.

I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit in the past nine months. When I say

lot of shit, that she had her best friend died in August. Her closest aunt

right before January 1st. My dad lost his leg a month back from filming.

I tore my Achilles three months from being back in Vancouver. I got surgery a

month later, and then I re -tore it again last month. So, you know, we're

all these hardships, but somehow we've managed to stay together. And, you know,

it's really, it's been awesome.

Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those

difficult moments?

You know, I've been sitting here, I've been listening to, you know, I'm older,

these ladies were older, these guys were younger, you know.

He's shutting down. He's not able to talk. He shut down. He wasn't able to

Does that happen with Logan sometimes?

Yes. But he's always able to pull himself back up after the bootstraps. I

he crashes out. I crash out. We both crash out. But at the end of the day,

we always come back to each other, you know, and it takes a lot of maturity on

his part. It takes a lot of patience on my part, you know, and patience on his

part, too, you know, but he's always.

showing up for me and I'm showing up for him I've been actually thinking about

this a lot as I just reflect on my life and things like that but they always say

like who you marry is a really important decision it will change your life

forever and I look back and like where I was before I met Natalie and just in

every measurable and meaningful way I have so much more in my life I'm curious

since you've been with Vanessa how has she changed your life for the better

She helped me approach things in a way that I knew

certain areas of my life weren't going to be the same forever, like constantly

going out with my friends on weekends and just looking for the fun thing to

You know, I know that, you know, how you live your life in your early 20s isn't

necessary. That's a short era.

And, you know, since being with Vanessa, she's.

She's pulled me in a direction that I always knew was there for me, but I

necessarily following that road.

And since being with Vanessa, I've started thinking more of what's down the

line. What do I want more for myself?

Am I doing some things short term or doing them long term? So she's helped

elevate me in ways that I've wanted to do myself, but I haven't been able to.

The conversation of children was brought up when you met your parents. Your mom

was very much vocal about how much she wanted her grandkids. Has that been a

topic of discussion since you've been out of the...

bubble yeah well we already got gypsy rose so yeah that's that's my little

she has black hair she looks like her dad yeah yeah no and and we get a lot of

practice we try every time it's all that fourth of july yeah right right fourth

of july yeah yeah a million minutes multiple times how did you feel about

world uh hearing that moment you know if we know

Baby, let him know. I know. It was the first time.

First of all, I haven't been with anyone in a year. I don't know how long it's

been for him, so it's been a long time.

Tell him how it is now.

Obviously, it's amazing now.

Obviously, it's amazing now. Well, the truth is, you know, there's a tight

window between, come on, versus, like, you know.

Yeah, no, it had honestly been a while, and I'm not.

you know i was just trying to you're super into your woman you know yeah i

was ready to go and man when i saw that i almost threw up i started jacking i

was like i had to pause it the other day this was wednesday and i like ran to

the bathroom and i stood over the toilet

And I had to catch myself.

Yeah. That's how I do it. Yeah, that's how I should have done it. Well, they

said, no, they're not going to play anything. It's just for, you know,

It's safety reasons.

It's safety.

It's safety reasons.

It's like, what do you believe in, man?

Yeah.

Yeah, whatever.

He's made up for it. He's made up for it. We're moving past it.

He's making it up for it.

I think you just got to own it, man. Oh, yeah. No, I don't care. This shit's

fire. Why do you think I put a ring on it? on it.

I didn't get five rings for nothing.

Is this the same ring that he gave you? Yes, this is my ring.

I wasn't able to wear it, so anyone who's seen me in the last nine months,

it was because we had to keep everything quiet for the show.

Obviously, we can't wedding plan.

A,

we've had all the things that we've been through. B, how do we plan a wedding

when we... Can't even tell people about it. And now, you know, things are out in

the open and we can start to move forward and get things set up for the

You know, Logan, you've got to close this thing, you know. Yeah. More

engagements. I know, right? I know.

We've got to follow through.

Right. Okay.

Absolutely. In all seriousness, I am curious. During filming, you had opened

to Vanessa about feeling like she

kind of talk down to you every once in a while. And maybe that came from a place

of just lived experiences.

But that is obviously something that I think couples in age difference

relationships, whether they mean it or not, like have to kind of find that

balance. Like where one person might feel like, hey, I'm just like talking

my experience while the other person feels like you're being a little

condescending. How have you guys been able to figure out that balance?

Like I said before, you know, it's the constant communication.

And Jorge kind of touched on this a little bit earlier about how sometimes

you're not presenting things in the right way and you're getting feedback,

you've got to take a step back and pivot and figure out a way to really, really

be understood with your partner.

And I will say this, at dinner, they didn't show it, Nick, but at the dinner

with, you know, the infamous dinner with Teresa and Leah, you asked me a

question about a power dynamic at that dinner. It was a really good question.

And Vanessa talked about it after because she felt some type of way about

You know, she was like, damn it, Nick Vile. And we were cracking up about it.

But it was really good because that was one of the things that helped me kind of

show to her what...

And basically, I don't want to say plead my case, but some of the influences

that helped shape us. And, you know, because it's not always, I can't do

everything myself.

Sometimes I feel a certain way when she says things and I need other people to

talk to Derek about, hey, what am I seeing here and what am I missing? And

people to help guide you when, you know, sometimes it's just you and the other

person all the time.

And you can't communicate perfectly all the time. So that helped.

You know what's funny is Logan snuck up to my room when we were in Vancouver

because he was going through a moment, right? And you know what's funny is we

all would joke him like, he and Vanessa, they ain't going to make it.

He's a last -minute shot. And they have withstood the test of time. And I think

a large part of it, I even think Vanessa touched on it.

I'm amazed at the emotional maturity that he has shown. I mean, and he's gone

through it, but he stayed the course, and his communication has been

So, I mean, I think they're dope.

I'm going to be at their wedding. You are. We're going to let you officiate.

Amen.

Wow. Yeah. And the thing is, like, I'm super OCD and he's ADD.

So it's like, you know, you put those letters together and it's the word

alphabet soup, man.

And Derek knows.

He lives my life. I show up on time everywhere.

And it's hard. And then sometimes it feels like I'm being bossy to him

want him to hurry up and get ready or whatever.

And he was on time today, though. He did really well today. I'm very proud of

him. him but it's it was only 10 minutes that's early

logan how did it feel obviously vanessa talked about you know she she had this

connection with chris for a moment Chris is your boy.

How did it feel watching that scene back?

Oh, it got awful. I wanted to punch him in the face.

And then when she reposted on Instagram story, I was like, babe, come on. And

then he reposted it. I was like, if you guys, if I see this picture one more

time, I'm going to crash out. And it's been 48 hours.

That's what they sent me.

That wasn't what the marketing sent me. He's got a thousand pictures. That's the

one you posted? Right.

I'm like, guys, can we please? I love you. I love you.

That's the video marketing. That picture, you can market the show without

picture. Posted a picture of you guys kissing? When I see her white

like, grabbing his face, I'm like, damn, dude, I'm about to... When I called him

last about the show, like, we were all talking about the scene. It's not so

great scene. So I'm like, yo, yo, like, you okay? How you feeling?

Vanessa,

what do you hope people learn from watching you and Logan fall in love?

So for me, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, you know, older

men have been dating younger women since the beginning of time. But older women

dating a younger man is, like, still frowned upon in society.

So, like, I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay and we

don't have to be ashamed of it. And that women could be, you know, have all of

it together and be with somebody younger. And it doesn't diminish your

the person you're with's value.

I watched the whole thing yesterday and at the end, everybody was talking about

like the age difference and the age difference, the age difference. And

honestly, the whole time I was there, the age thing just went right over my

head. And I was like, was I supposed to be thinking more about this age distance

thing? Cause I wasn't, I was just like living in the moment with this person,

with this soul that I never like.

really thought about it you know and we got home and I still never really

thought about it and then yesterday watching the episodes I'm like oh I

missed something here but I'm almost kind of glad that I was like oblivious

it because it was allowed me to put my guard down and not let outside influence

affect me and since I've been home I mean I had a 50th birthday party I had

people there he met everyone not one person was like he's too young for you

loved him. They thought he was the maitre d' of the place.

If age was a factor, then we wouldn't have all the connections that we have.

Exactly. The fact is, if age is a factor, it's funny to me because then

us would have been like, oh, no.

Just in talking because it just doesn't work. But we dispelled that myth easily

because people make connections and really lasting connections. I mean, and

connections. And so then it became just relational issues.

Relation has nothing to do with it. So that's why all these people out there

making their comments. I'm like, you're lonely.

Why don't you go find somebody, okay?

You're at home in the computer by yourself. Right, right.

Well, Vanessa and Logan, we obviously are just so happy that the two of you

still here together putting in the work. It is really beautiful to see.

Thank you.

Let us know when y 'all sit away.

Yeah. Wait, why can't we officiate? Yeah, you should.

Maybe we should do it. Jorge.

I just got a list. All right, we'll punch you as one of the folks.

I'm no PK, you know.

I'm no PK.

No, but you're good, though. He'll be the party planner.

He knows what's up.

All right. Well, before we send you all on your way, does anyone have any final

thoughts or things they want to share?

I do.

I'm very, very grateful for this experiment. I was single for about four

before I went into this. I was abstinent for about a year before I went into it.

And I was moving forward. I didn't want to do that until I found somebody I

really loved and I wanted to be with.

I don't know. I said this on the show, but my mom had cancer. She was sick for

two years and she passed kind of before the show.

And this just really saved me. And I don't want to cry.

I'm not a crier.

But this just really saved me. And Logan saved me. And I prayed for an angel

every day.

And here he is.

Your mom would be so proud. She would love him.

You've been true to yourself. You've been so strong, so brave throughout the

whole process.

He would be very proud.

I think thanks to Age of Attraction because Age of Attraction, what it gave

was so much more than just even our own connections and the connections we made

with men, women. I think it's like the gift that keeps on giving and it

dispelled myths that I always believed in. So I think the Age of Attraction was

an amazing experience.

Wouldn't trade it for the world.

And I wanted to give a shout out to Logan. We live in the same building in

Dallas.

And it was not really seen on the show, but I had my question marks about them.

But I've seen him grow so much.

And he'll come knock on my door with a bottle of wine. And I think that that

takes a lot, man, to say, you know what? I don't understand this part about, you

know, the relationship. Can you help me as a big brother? So I've seen him grow

through that process.

And I'm proud of him. Appreciate it.

Grateful for you.

Anyone else before we wrap?

Okay. Well, I just want to thank all of you for your vulnerability, showing up.

Obviously, this show means a great deal to us, and what this show's about means

even more.

You know, age obviously can play a role in relationships and compatibility and

certainly can play a role in how we communicate or how we don't communicate.

But that's what I love so much about this show. It's more about our

compatibility and how we work through some of these issues and acknowledging

that sometimes age does play a role.

when it comes to love? And are we going to allow it to be the end of our

relationship or something we work through? So to me, this show is more

understanding how we work through our challenges and our relationships.

And I just want to thank you all for being so vulnerable and open.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

You will always mean a lot to us. We certainly hope for many more seasons,

you guys will always be number one in our hearts.

You better say that in five years.

Well, I think that just about does it for the Age of Attraction Season 1

reunion. Thank you so much to the entire cast, our team, and Netflix for giving

us the opportunity to do this. It's been so much fun.

And always remember, age is sometimes just a number. And sometimes it's not.

that's love for you.

Thank you, everybody.

Bye.

That was great.

Good job, guys.

And that's a wrap.