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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,070 --> 00:00:05,039 [ SILENCE ] 2 00:00:44,678 --> 00:00:49,583 [ THUNDER RUMBLES ] 3 00:00:49,583 --> 00:00:51,419 A CO-FOUNDER OF THE SOCIAL 4 00:00:51,419 --> 00:00:53,053 NEWS AND ENTERTAINMENT WEBSITE 5 00:00:53,053 --> 00:00:56,790 REDDIT HAS BEEN FOUND DEAD. 6 00:00:56,790 --> 00:00:58,526 HE CERTAINLY WAS A PRODIGY, 7 00:00:58,526 --> 00:00:59,893 ALTHOUGH HE NEVER KIND OF 8 00:00:59,893 --> 00:01:01,695 THOUGHT OF HIMSELF LIKE THAT. 9 00:01:01,695 --> 00:01:03,897 HE WAS TOTALLY UNEXCITED 10 00:01:03,897 --> 00:01:06,467 ABOUT STUDYING BUSINESSES AND 11 00:01:06,467 --> 00:01:08,936 MAKING MONEY. 12 00:01:08,936 --> 00:01:10,771 THERE'S A PROFOUND SENSE OF 13 00:01:10,771 --> 00:01:12,606 LOSS TONIGHT IN HIGHLAND PARK, 14 00:01:12,606 --> 00:01:14,108 AARON SWARTZ'S HOMETOWN, AS 15 00:01:14,108 --> 00:01:16,009 LOVED ONES SAY GOODBYE TO ONE OF 16 00:01:16,009 --> 00:01:17,945 THE INTERNET'S BRIGHTEST LIGHTS. 17 00:01:17,945 --> 00:01:19,780 ...OPEN ACCESS AND COMPUTER 18 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:21,682 ACTIVISTS ARE MOURNING HIS LOSS. 19 00:01:21,682 --> 00:01:23,050 AN ASTONISHING INTELLECT. 20 00:01:23,050 --> 00:01:24,718 YOU TALK TO PEOPLE WHO KNEW HIM. 21 00:01:24,718 --> 00:01:25,886 HE WAS KILLED BY THE 22 00:01:25,886 --> 00:01:27,555 GOVERNMENT, AND MIT BETRAYED ALL 23 00:01:27,555 --> 00:01:28,789 OF ITS BASIC PRINCIPLES. 24 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:30,023 THEY WANTED TO MAKE AN 25 00:01:30,023 --> 00:01:34,162 EXAMPLE OUT OF HIM, OKAY? 26 00:01:34,162 --> 00:01:36,664 GOVERNMENTS HAVE AN 27 00:01:36,664 --> 00:01:38,199 INSATIABLE DESIRE TO CONTROL. 28 00:01:38,199 --> 00:01:40,000 HE WAS POTENTIALLY FACING 35 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,869 YEARS IN PRISON AND A $1 MILLION 30 00:01:41,869 --> 00:01:42,936 FINE. 31 00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:44,538 RAISING QUESTIONS OR 32 00:01:44,538 --> 00:01:46,874 PROSECUTORIAL ZEAL AND I WOULD 33 00:01:46,874 --> 00:01:49,577 SAY EVEN MISCONDUCT. 34 00:01:49,577 --> 00:01:50,944 HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO THAT 35 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:52,680 PARTICULAR MATTER AND REACHED 36 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,484 ANY CONCLUSIONS? 37 00:01:56,484 --> 00:01:57,651 GROWING UP, YOU KNOW, I 38 00:01:57,651 --> 00:01:58,819 SLOWLY HAD THIS PROCESS OF 39 00:01:58,819 --> 00:02:00,053 REALIZING THAT ALL THE THINGS 40 00:02:00,053 --> 00:02:01,589 AROUND ME THAT PEOPLE HAD TOLD 41 00:02:01,589 --> 00:02:02,823 ME WERE JUST THE NATURAL WAY 42 00:02:02,823 --> 00:02:03,924 THINGS WERE, THE WAY THINGS 43 00:02:03,924 --> 00:02:04,792 ALWAYS WOULD BE. 44 00:02:04,792 --> 00:02:06,860 THEY WEREN'T NATURAL AT ALL. 45 00:02:06,860 --> 00:02:08,061 THEY WERE THINGS THAT COULD BE 46 00:02:08,061 --> 00:02:09,197 CHANGED, AND THEY WERE THINGS 47 00:02:09,197 --> 00:02:10,498 THAT, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WERE 48 00:02:10,498 --> 00:02:11,465 WRONG AND SHOULD CHANGE. 49 00:02:11,465 --> 00:02:12,666 AND ONCE I REALIZED THAT, THERE 50 00:02:12,666 --> 00:02:13,734 WAS REALLY KIND OF NO GOING 51 00:02:13,734 --> 00:02:15,569 BACK. 52 00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:27,581 WELCOME TO STORY READING TIME. 53 00:02:27,581 --> 00:02:29,550 THE NAME OF THE BOOK IS 54 00:02:29,550 --> 00:02:32,119 "PADDINGTON AT THE FAIR." 55 00:02:32,119 --> 00:02:33,921 WELL, HE WAS BORN IN 56 00:02:33,921 --> 00:02:36,056 HIGHLAND PARK AND GREW UP HERE. 57 00:02:36,056 --> 00:02:37,658 AARON CAME FROM A FAMILY OF 58 00:02:37,658 --> 00:02:38,792 THREE BROTHERS, ALL 59 00:02:38,792 --> 00:02:40,060 EXTRAORDINARILY BRIGHT. 60 00:02:40,060 --> 00:02:41,695 THE BOX IS TIPPING OVER! 61 00:02:41,695 --> 00:02:43,931 AAH! 62 00:02:43,931 --> 00:02:45,199 SO, WE WERE ALL, YOU KNOW, 63 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:46,667 NOT THE BEST-BEHAVED CHILDREN, 64 00:02:46,667 --> 00:02:47,801 AND, YOU KNOW, THREE BOYS 65 00:02:47,801 --> 00:02:49,002 RUNNING AROUND ALL THE TIME 66 00:02:49,002 --> 00:02:50,771 CAUSING TROUBLE. 67 00:02:50,771 --> 00:02:52,806 HEY, NO, NO, NO. 68 00:02:52,806 --> 00:02:53,741 AARON! 69 00:02:53,741 --> 00:02:54,775 WHAT? 70 00:02:54,775 --> 00:02:56,510 BUT I'VE COME TO THE 71 00:02:56,510 --> 00:02:58,646 REALIZATION AARON LEARNED HOW TO 72 00:02:58,646 --> 00:03:00,581 LEARN AT A VERY YOUNG AGE. 73 00:03:00,581 --> 00:03:03,150 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 74 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:05,986 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. 75 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:07,255 KNOCK, KNOCK. 76 00:03:07,255 --> 00:03:08,556 WHO'S THERE? 77 00:03:08,556 --> 00:03:09,156 AARON. 78 00:03:09,156 --> 00:03:10,190 AARON WHO? 79 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:11,959 AARON FUNNYMAN. 80 00:03:11,959 --> 00:03:13,160 HE KNEW WHAT HE WANTED, AND 81 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,495 HE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO IT. 82 00:03:14,495 --> 00:03:15,729 HE ALWAYS ACCOMPLISHED WHAT HE 83 00:03:15,729 --> 00:03:17,265 WANTED. 84 00:03:17,265 --> 00:03:20,834 HIS CURIOSITY WAS ENDLESS. 85 00:03:20,834 --> 00:03:22,870 HERE'S A LITTLE PICTURE OF 86 00:03:22,870 --> 00:03:24,538 WHAT THE PLANETS ARE. 87 00:03:24,538 --> 00:03:26,840 AND EACH PLANET HAS A SYMBOL. 88 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,543 MERCURY'S SYMBOL, VENUS' SYMBOL, 89 00:03:29,543 --> 00:03:30,944 EARTH'S SYMBOL, MARS' SYMBOL, 90 00:03:30,944 --> 00:03:32,012 JUPITER'S SYMBOL... 91 00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,581 ONE DAY HE SAID TO SUSAN, 92 00:03:33,581 --> 00:03:34,815 "WHAT'S THIS FREE FAMILY 93 00:03:34,815 --> 00:03:35,983 ENTERTAINMENT DOWNTOWN 94 00:03:35,983 --> 00:03:36,884 HIGHLAND PARK?" 95 00:03:36,884 --> 00:03:38,319 FREE FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT 96 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:39,787 DOWNTOWN HIGHLAND PARK. 97 00:03:39,787 --> 00:03:41,589 HE WAS 3 AT THE TIME, AND SHE 98 00:03:41,589 --> 00:03:43,023 SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING 99 00:03:43,023 --> 00:03:43,624 ABOUT?" 100 00:03:43,624 --> 00:03:45,192 HE SAID, "LOOK, IT SAYS HERE ON 101 00:03:45,192 --> 00:03:46,226 THE REFRIGERATOR. 102 00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:47,695 FREE FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT 103 00:03:47,695 --> 00:03:48,929 DOWNTOWN HIGHLAND PARK." 104 00:03:48,929 --> 00:03:51,665 AND SO, SHE WAS FLOORED AND 105 00:03:51,665 --> 00:03:54,568 ASTONISHED THAT HE COULD READ. 106 00:03:54,568 --> 00:03:56,236 IT'S CALLED 107 00:03:56,236 --> 00:03:59,707 "MY FAMILY SEDER." 108 00:03:59,707 --> 00:04:02,209 "THE SEDER NIGHT IS DIFFERENT 109 00:04:02,209 --> 00:04:03,844 FROM ALL OTHER NIGHTS." 110 00:04:03,844 --> 00:04:05,846 I REMEMBER ONCE WE WERE AT 111 00:04:05,846 --> 00:04:07,681 THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO 112 00:04:07,681 --> 00:04:08,282 LIBRARY. 113 00:04:08,282 --> 00:04:09,983 I PULLED A BOOK OFF THE SHELF 114 00:04:09,983 --> 00:04:11,585 THAT WAS FROM LIKE 1900 AND 115 00:04:11,585 --> 00:04:13,120 SHOWED HIM AND SAID, YOU KNOW, 116 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,355 "THIS IS REALLY JUST AN 117 00:04:14,355 --> 00:04:15,756 EXTRAORDINARY PLACE." 118 00:04:15,756 --> 00:04:17,891 WE ALL WERE CURIOUS CHILDREN, 119 00:04:17,891 --> 00:04:20,027 BUT AARON REALLY LIKED LEARNING 120 00:04:20,027 --> 00:04:21,962 AND REALLY LIKED TEACHING. 121 00:04:21,962 --> 00:04:24,598 AND TODAY WE'RE GOING TO 122 00:04:24,598 --> 00:04:26,934 LEARN THE ABCs BACKWARDS. 123 00:04:26,934 --> 00:04:31,104 Z, Y, X, W, V, U, T... 124 00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:33,073 I REMEMBER HE CAME HOME FROM 125 00:04:33,073 --> 00:04:35,042 HIS FIRST ALGEBRA CLASS, AND HE 126 00:04:35,042 --> 00:04:36,910 WAS LIKE, "NOAH, LET ME TEACH 127 00:04:36,910 --> 00:04:37,911 YOU ALGEBRA." 128 00:04:37,911 --> 00:04:39,913 AND I'M LIKE, "WHAT IS ALGEBRA?" 129 00:04:39,913 --> 00:04:42,249 AND HE WAS ALWAYS LIKE THAT. 130 00:04:42,249 --> 00:04:44,818 NOW YOU PRESS THE CLICK 131 00:04:44,818 --> 00:04:45,786 BUTTON. 132 00:04:45,786 --> 00:04:48,622 THERE. NOW IT'S GOT THAT. 133 00:04:48,622 --> 00:04:51,325 NOW IT'S IN PEACE. 134 00:04:51,325 --> 00:04:53,060 WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 2 OR 3 135 00:04:53,060 --> 00:04:55,095 YEARS OLD AND BOB INTRODUCED HIM 136 00:04:55,095 --> 00:04:57,030 TO COMPUTERS, THEN HE JUST TOOK 137 00:04:57,030 --> 00:04:58,632 OFF LIKE CRAZY ON THEM. 138 00:04:58,632 --> 00:05:02,370 GO PRESS THAT ONE TO A, B, C. 139 00:05:02,370 --> 00:05:04,271 WE ALL HAD COMPUTERS, BUT 140 00:05:04,271 --> 00:05:06,106 AARON REALLY TOOK TO THEM, 141 00:05:06,106 --> 00:05:08,075 REALLY TOOK TO THE INTERNET. 142 00:05:08,075 --> 00:05:09,977 LOOKING AT THE COMPUTER? 143 00:05:09,977 --> 00:05:13,213 UH-HUH. 144 00:05:13,213 --> 00:05:14,682 MOMMY, WHY IS NOTHING WORKING? 145 00:05:14,682 --> 00:05:16,016 HE STARTED PROGRAMMING FROM A 146 00:05:16,016 --> 00:05:17,785 REALLY YOUNG AGE. 147 00:05:17,785 --> 00:05:19,252 I REMEMBER THE FIRST PROGRAM 148 00:05:19,252 --> 00:05:20,888 THAT I WROTE WITH HIM WAS IN 149 00:05:20,888 --> 00:05:22,656 BASIC, AND IT WAS A "STAR WARS" 150 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:25,325 TRIVIA GAME. 151 00:05:25,325 --> 00:05:27,160 HE SAT DOWN WITH ME IN THE 152 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,296 BASEMENT WHERE THE COMPUTER WAS 153 00:05:29,296 --> 00:05:34,368 FOR HOURS PROGRAMMING THIS GAME. 154 00:05:34,368 --> 00:05:35,969 THE PROBLEM THAT I KEPT HAVING 155 00:05:35,969 --> 00:05:37,371 WITH HIM IS THERE WAS NOTHING 156 00:05:37,371 --> 00:05:39,006 THAT I WANTED DONE, AND TO HIM, 157 00:05:39,006 --> 00:05:40,408 THERE WAS ALWAYS SOMETHING TO 158 00:05:40,408 --> 00:05:41,842 DO, ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT 159 00:05:41,842 --> 00:05:46,313 PROGRAMMING COULD SOLVE. 160 00:05:46,313 --> 00:05:48,115 THE WAY AARON ALWAYS SAW IT IS 161 00:05:48,115 --> 00:05:49,717 THAT PROGRAMMING IS MAGIC, 162 00:05:49,717 --> 00:05:50,150 RIGHT? 163 00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:51,985 YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH THESE THINGS 164 00:05:51,985 --> 00:05:53,387 THAT NORMAL HUMANS CAN'T. 165 00:05:53,387 --> 00:05:55,055 AARON MADE AN ATM USING, 166 00:05:55,055 --> 00:05:56,824 LIKE, A MACINTOSH AND, LIKE, A 167 00:05:56,824 --> 00:05:57,791 CARDBOARD BOX. 168 00:05:57,791 --> 00:05:59,159 ONE YEAR FOR HALLOWEEN, I 169 00:05:59,159 --> 00:06:00,861 DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WANTED TO BE, 170 00:06:00,861 --> 00:06:02,195 AND HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE 171 00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:03,831 REALLY, REALLY COOL IF I DRESSED 172 00:06:03,831 --> 00:06:05,032 UP LIKE HIS NEW FAVORITE 173 00:06:05,032 --> 00:06:06,434 COMPUTER, WHICH, AT THE TIME, 174 00:06:06,434 --> 00:06:08,301 WAS THE ORIGINAL iMAC. 175 00:06:08,301 --> 00:06:09,970 I MEAN, HE HATED DRESSING UP FOR 176 00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:11,104 HALLOWEEN, BUT HE LOVED 177 00:06:11,104 --> 00:06:12,740 CONVINCING OTHER PEOPLE TO DRESS 178 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:14,141 UP AS THINGS THAT HE WANTED TO 179 00:06:14,141 --> 00:06:14,442 SEE. 180 00:06:14,442 --> 00:06:17,778 AARON. HOST, AARON. 181 00:06:17,778 --> 00:06:18,979 GUYS, COME ON. 182 00:06:18,979 --> 00:06:23,283 LOOK AT THE CAMERA. 183 00:06:23,283 --> 00:06:26,019 HE MADE THIS WEBSITE CALLED 184 00:06:26,019 --> 00:06:28,422 "THE INFO," WHERE PEOPLE CAN 185 00:06:28,422 --> 00:06:31,091 JUST FILL IN INFORMATION. 186 00:06:31,091 --> 00:06:32,426 LIKE, I'M SURE SOMEONE OUT THERE 187 00:06:32,426 --> 00:06:33,794 KNOWS ALL ABOUT GOLD, GOLD 188 00:06:33,794 --> 00:06:34,194 LEAFING. 189 00:06:34,194 --> 00:06:35,729 WHY DON'T THEY WRITE ABOUT THAT 190 00:06:35,729 --> 00:06:36,363 ON THIS WEBSITE? 191 00:06:36,363 --> 00:06:37,865 AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE COULD 192 00:06:37,865 --> 00:06:39,132 COME AT A LATER POINT AND READ 193 00:06:39,132 --> 00:06:40,400 THAT INFORMATION AND EDIT THE 194 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,869 INFORMATION IF THEY THOUGHT IT 195 00:06:41,869 --> 00:06:44,137 WAS BAD, NOT TOO DISSIMILAR FROM 196 00:06:44,137 --> 00:06:45,473 WIKIPEDIA, RIGHT? 197 00:06:45,473 --> 00:06:47,908 AND THIS WAS BEFORE WIKIPEDIA 198 00:06:47,908 --> 00:06:49,810 HAD BEGUN, AND THIS WAS 199 00:06:49,810 --> 00:06:52,045 DEVELOPED BY A 12-YEAR-OLD IN 200 00:06:52,045 --> 00:06:55,082 HIS ROOM BY HIMSELF RUNNING ON, 201 00:06:55,082 --> 00:06:56,950 YOU KNOW, THIS TINY SERVER USING 202 00:06:56,950 --> 00:06:58,085 ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY. 203 00:06:58,085 --> 00:06:59,753 AND ONE OF THE TEACHERS' 204 00:06:59,753 --> 00:07:01,221 RESPONSE LIKE, "THIS IS A 205 00:07:01,221 --> 00:07:02,155 TERRIBLE IDEA. 206 00:07:02,155 --> 00:07:03,957 YOU CAN'T JUST, LIKE, LET ANYONE 207 00:07:03,957 --> 00:07:05,793 AUTHOR THE DICTI-- LIKE, AUTHOR 208 00:07:05,793 --> 00:07:06,860 THE ENCYCLOPEDIA. 209 00:07:06,860 --> 00:07:07,995 THE WHOLE REASON WE HAVE 210 00:07:07,995 --> 00:07:09,396 SCHOLARS IS TO WRITE THESE BOOKS 211 00:07:09,396 --> 00:07:09,997 FOR US. 212 00:07:09,997 --> 00:07:11,264 HOW DID YOU EVER HAVE SUCH A 213 00:07:11,264 --> 00:07:12,099 TERRIBLE IDEA?" 214 00:07:12,099 --> 00:07:13,901 ME AND MY OTHER BROTHER WOULD BE 215 00:07:13,901 --> 00:07:15,268 LIKE, "OH, YOU KNOW, YEAH, 216 00:07:15,268 --> 00:07:16,904 WIKIPEDIA'S COOL, BUT WE HAD 217 00:07:16,904 --> 00:07:18,305 THAT IN OUR HOUSE LIKE FIVE 218 00:07:18,305 --> 00:07:20,541 YEARS AGO." 219 00:07:20,541 --> 00:07:23,544 AARON'S WEBSITE, theinfo.org, 220 00:07:23,544 --> 00:07:25,946 WINS A SCHOOL COMPETITION HOSTED 221 00:07:25,946 --> 00:07:27,447 BY THE CAMBRIDGE-BASED 222 00:07:27,447 --> 00:07:33,253 WEB-DESIGN FIRM ArsDigita. 223 00:07:33,253 --> 00:07:35,155 WE ALL WENT TO CAMBRIDGE WHEN 224 00:07:35,155 --> 00:07:36,857 HE WON THE ArsDigita PRIZE. 225 00:07:36,857 --> 00:07:38,425 AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD NO CLUE 226 00:07:38,425 --> 00:07:39,893 WHAT AARON WAS DOING. 227 00:07:39,893 --> 00:07:41,495 IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THE PRIZE 228 00:07:41,495 --> 00:07:43,363 WAS REALLY IMPORTANT. 229 00:07:43,363 --> 00:07:45,198 AARON SOON BECAME INVOLVED 230 00:07:45,198 --> 00:07:46,800 WITH ONLINE PROGRAMMING 231 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,502 COMMUNITIES THEN IN THE PROCESS 232 00:07:48,502 --> 00:07:50,370 OF SHAPING A NEW TOOL FOR THE 233 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:50,938 WEB. 234 00:07:50,938 --> 00:07:52,239 HE COMES UP TO ME AND IS 235 00:07:52,239 --> 00:07:53,841 LIKE, "BEN, THERE'S THIS REALLY 236 00:07:53,841 --> 00:07:55,242 AWESOME THING THAT I'M WORKING 237 00:07:55,242 --> 00:07:55,509 ON. 238 00:07:55,509 --> 00:07:57,010 YOU NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IT." 239 00:07:57,010 --> 00:07:58,245 I'M LIKE, "YEAH, WHAT IS IT?" 240 00:07:58,245 --> 00:07:59,479 SAYS, "IT'S THIS THING CALLED 241 00:07:59,479 --> 00:08:01,615 RSS." 242 00:08:01,615 --> 00:08:03,250 AND HE EXPLAINS TO ME WHAT RSS 243 00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:03,517 IS. 244 00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:05,452 I'M LIKE, "WHY IS THAT USEFUL, 245 00:08:05,452 --> 00:08:06,186 AARON? 246 00:08:06,186 --> 00:08:08,055 LIKE, IS ANY SITE USING IT? 247 00:08:08,055 --> 00:08:10,023 LIKE, WHY WOULD I WANT TO USE 248 00:08:10,023 --> 00:08:11,091 IT?" 249 00:08:11,091 --> 00:08:12,926 THERE WAS THIS MAILING LIST 250 00:08:12,926 --> 00:08:14,528 FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ON 251 00:08:14,528 --> 00:08:16,429 RSS AND XML MORE GENERALLY, AND 252 00:08:16,429 --> 00:08:18,298 THERE WAS A PERSON ON IT NAMED 253 00:08:18,298 --> 00:08:20,200 AARON SWARTZ WHO WAS COMBATIVE 254 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,135 BUT VERY SMART AND WHO HAD LOTS 255 00:08:22,135 --> 00:08:23,136 OF GOOD IDEAS. 256 00:08:23,136 --> 00:08:24,838 AND HE DIDN'T EVER COME TO THE 257 00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:26,373 FACE-TO-FACE MEETINGS, AND THEY 258 00:08:26,373 --> 00:08:28,041 SAID, YOU KNOW, "WHEN ARE YOU 259 00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:29,543 GONNA COME OUT TO ONE OF THESE 260 00:08:29,543 --> 00:08:31,311 FACE-TO-FACE MEETINGS?" 261 00:08:31,311 --> 00:08:32,913 AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, "I DON'T 262 00:08:32,913 --> 00:08:34,147 THINK MY MOM WOULD LET ME. 263 00:08:34,147 --> 00:08:37,050 YOU KNOW, I JUST TURNED 14." 264 00:08:37,050 --> 00:08:38,485 AND SO THEIR FIRST REACTION WAS, 265 00:08:38,485 --> 00:08:40,020 WELL, YOU KNOW, "THIS PERSON, 266 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:41,221 THIS COLLEAGUE WE'VE BEEN 267 00:08:41,221 --> 00:08:42,556 WORKING WITH ALL YEAR, WAS 13 268 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:44,091 YEARS OLD WHILE WE'RE WORKING 269 00:08:44,091 --> 00:08:45,358 HIM, AND HE'S ONLY 14 NOW." 270 00:08:45,358 --> 00:08:46,927 AND THEIR SECOND REACTION WAS, 271 00:08:46,927 --> 00:08:48,361 "CHRIST, WE REALLY WANT TO MEET 272 00:08:48,361 --> 00:08:48,896 HIM." 273 00:08:48,896 --> 00:08:50,463 YOU KNOW, THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY. 274 00:08:50,463 --> 00:08:52,165 HE WAS PART OF THE COMMITTEE 275 00:08:52,165 --> 00:08:53,233 THAT DRAFTED RSS. 276 00:08:53,233 --> 00:08:55,135 WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS TO HELP 277 00:08:55,135 --> 00:08:57,938 BUILD THE PLUMBING FOR MODERN 278 00:08:57,938 --> 00:08:59,039 HYPERTEXT. 279 00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:00,608 AND THE PIECE THAT HE WAS 280 00:09:00,608 --> 00:09:02,576 WORKING ON, RSS, WAS A TOOL THAT 281 00:09:02,576 --> 00:09:04,477 YOU CAN USE TO GET SUMMARIES OF 282 00:09:04,477 --> 00:09:06,246 THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN 283 00:09:06,246 --> 00:09:08,015 OTHER WEB PAGES. 284 00:09:08,015 --> 00:09:09,617 MOST COMMONLY WOULD USE THIS FOR 285 00:09:09,617 --> 00:09:10,283 A BLOG. 286 00:09:10,283 --> 00:09:12,219 YOU MIGHT HAVE 10 OR 20 PEOPLE'S 287 00:09:12,219 --> 00:09:13,587 BLOGS YOU WANT TO READ. 288 00:09:13,587 --> 00:09:15,422 YOU USE THEIR RSS FEEDS, THESE 289 00:09:15,422 --> 00:09:17,357 SUMMARIES OF WHAT'S GOING ON, ON 290 00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:19,226 THOSE OTHER PAGES, TO CREATE A 291 00:09:19,226 --> 00:09:21,028 UNIFIED LIST OF ALL THE STUFF 292 00:09:21,028 --> 00:09:22,129 THAT'S GOING ON. 293 00:09:22,129 --> 00:09:23,597 AARON WAS REALLY YOUNG, BUT HE 294 00:09:23,597 --> 00:09:25,365 UNDERSTOOD THE TECHNOLOGY AND HE 295 00:09:25,365 --> 00:09:26,967 SAW THAT IT WAS IMPERFECT AND 296 00:09:26,967 --> 00:09:28,501 LOOKED FOR WAYS TO HELP MAKE IT 297 00:09:28,501 --> 00:09:35,042 BETTER. 298 00:09:35,042 --> 00:09:36,376 SO, HIS MOM STARTED BUNDLING 299 00:09:36,376 --> 00:09:37,510 HIM ON PLANES IN CHICAGO. 300 00:09:37,510 --> 00:09:38,445 WE'D PICK HIM UP IN 301 00:09:38,445 --> 00:09:39,246 SAN FRANCISCO. 302 00:09:39,246 --> 00:09:40,280 WE'D INTRODUCE HIM TO 303 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:41,481 INTERESTING PEOPLE TO ARGUE 304 00:09:41,481 --> 00:09:41,982 WITH. 305 00:09:41,982 --> 00:09:43,550 AND WE'D MARVEL AT HIS HORRIFIC 306 00:09:43,550 --> 00:09:44,484 EATING HABITS. 307 00:09:44,484 --> 00:09:45,953 HE ONLY ATE WHITE FOOD. 308 00:09:45,953 --> 00:09:47,587 ONLY, LIKE, YOU KNOW, STEAMED 309 00:09:47,587 --> 00:09:49,422 RICE -- NOT FRIED RICE, 'CAUSE 310 00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:51,058 THAT WASN'T SUFFICIENTLY 311 00:09:51,058 --> 00:09:52,960 WHITE -- AND WHITE BREAD AND SO 312 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:53,293 ON. 313 00:09:53,293 --> 00:09:54,527 AND, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF 314 00:09:54,527 --> 00:09:56,063 MARVEL AT THE QUALITY OF THE 315 00:09:56,063 --> 00:09:57,430 DEBATE EMERGING FROM THIS WHAT 316 00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:58,732 APPEARED TO BE A SMALL BOY'S 317 00:09:58,732 --> 00:10:00,333 MOUTH, AND YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, 318 00:10:00,333 --> 00:10:01,568 "THIS IS A KID WHO'S REALLY 319 00:10:01,568 --> 00:10:03,203 GONNA GO SOMEWHERE IF HE DOESN'T 320 00:10:03,203 --> 00:10:04,071 DIE OF SCURVY." 321 00:10:04,071 --> 00:10:05,673 AARON, YOU'RE UP. 322 00:10:05,673 --> 00:10:07,174 I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS 323 00:10:07,174 --> 00:10:08,308 THAT NOW YOU CAN'T MAKE 324 00:10:08,308 --> 00:10:09,710 COMPANIES, LIKE DOC WAS SAYING. 325 00:10:09,710 --> 00:10:11,244 YOU CAN'T HAVE COMPANIES THAT 326 00:10:11,244 --> 00:10:12,612 JUST, YOU KNOW, LET'S SELL DOG 327 00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:14,247 FOOD OVER THE INTERNET, SELL DOG 328 00:10:14,247 --> 00:10:15,315 FOOD OVER CELLPHONES. 329 00:10:15,315 --> 00:10:16,549 BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF 330 00:10:16,549 --> 00:10:17,584 INNOVATION GOING ON. 331 00:10:17,584 --> 00:10:19,086 I THINK IF YOU DON'T SEE THE 332 00:10:19,086 --> 00:10:20,453 INNOVATION, MAYBE YOUR HEAD IS 333 00:10:20,453 --> 00:10:21,221 IN THE SAND. 334 00:10:21,221 --> 00:10:22,589 HE TAKES ON THIS ALPHA-NERD 335 00:10:22,589 --> 00:10:24,157 PERSONALITY WHERE HE'S SORT OF 336 00:10:24,157 --> 00:10:25,492 LIKE, "I'M SMARTER THAN YOU. 337 00:10:25,492 --> 00:10:26,994 AND BECAUSE I'M SMARTER THAN 338 00:10:26,994 --> 00:10:28,395 YOU, I'M BETTER THAN YOU AND I 339 00:10:28,395 --> 00:10:29,596 CAN TELL YOU WHAT TO DO." 340 00:10:29,596 --> 00:10:31,699 IT'S AN EXTENSION OF, LIKE, HIM 341 00:10:31,699 --> 00:10:33,633 BEING KIND OF LIKE A TWERP. 342 00:10:33,633 --> 00:10:34,634 [ CHUCKLES ] 343 00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:36,069 SO, YOU AGGREGATE ALL THESE 344 00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:37,270 COMPUTERS TOGETHER, AND NOW 345 00:10:37,270 --> 00:10:38,505 THEY'RE SOLVING BIG PROBLEMS, 346 00:10:38,505 --> 00:10:39,740 LIKE SEARCHING FOR ALIENS OR 347 00:10:39,740 --> 00:10:44,111 TRYING TO CURE CANCER. 348 00:10:44,111 --> 00:10:45,979 FIRST MET HIM IN IRC -- 349 00:10:45,979 --> 00:10:47,380 INTERNET RELAY CHAT. 350 00:10:47,380 --> 00:10:49,349 AND HE DIDN'T JUST WRITE CODE. 351 00:10:49,349 --> 00:10:51,151 HE ALSO SORT OF GOT PEOPLE 352 00:10:51,151 --> 00:10:53,153 EXCITED ABOUT SOLVING PROBLEMS. 353 00:10:53,153 --> 00:10:54,521 HE WAS A CONNECTOR. 354 00:10:54,521 --> 00:10:56,656 THE FREE CULTURE MOVEMENT HAD A 355 00:10:56,656 --> 00:10:58,191 LOT OF HIS ENERGY. 356 00:10:58,191 --> 00:11:00,460 I THINK AARON WAS TRYING TO MAKE 357 00:11:00,460 --> 00:11:01,661 THE WORLD WORK. 358 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:03,463 HE WAS TRYING TO FIX IT. 359 00:11:03,463 --> 00:11:05,032 HE HAD A VERY KIND OF STRONG 360 00:11:05,032 --> 00:11:06,299 PERSONALITY THAT DEFINITELY 361 00:11:06,299 --> 00:11:08,368 RUFFLED FEATHERS AT TIMES. 362 00:11:08,368 --> 00:11:10,037 IT WASN'T NECESSARILY THE CASE 363 00:11:10,037 --> 00:11:11,538 THAT HE WAS ALWAYS COMFORTABLE 364 00:11:11,538 --> 00:11:13,106 IN THE WORLD AND THE WORLD 365 00:11:13,106 --> 00:11:14,607 WASN'T ALWAYS COMFORTABLE WITH 366 00:11:14,607 --> 00:11:18,545 HIM. 367 00:11:18,545 --> 00:11:20,147 AARON GOT INTO HIGH SCHOOL 368 00:11:20,147 --> 00:11:21,448 AND WAS REALLY JUST SICK OF 369 00:11:21,448 --> 00:11:22,082 SCHOOL. 370 00:11:22,082 --> 00:11:23,083 HE DIDN'T LIKE IT. 371 00:11:23,083 --> 00:11:24,317 HE DIDN'T LIKE ANY OF THE 372 00:11:24,317 --> 00:11:25,786 CLASSES THAT WERE BEING TAUGHT. 373 00:11:25,786 --> 00:11:27,320 HE DIDN'T LIKE THE TEACHERS. 374 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:28,789 AARON REALLY KNEW, LIKE, HOW TO 375 00:11:28,789 --> 00:11:29,723 GET INFORMATION. 376 00:11:29,723 --> 00:11:31,424 HE WAS LIKE, "I DON'T NEED TO GO 377 00:11:31,424 --> 00:11:33,060 TO THIS TEACHER TO LEARN HOW TO 378 00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:33,660 DO GEOMETRY. 379 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,495 I CAN JUST READ THE GEOMETRY 380 00:11:35,495 --> 00:11:36,129 BOOK. 381 00:11:36,129 --> 00:11:37,831 AND I DON'T NEED TO GO TO THIS 382 00:11:37,831 --> 00:11:39,733 TEACHER TO LEARN THEIR VERSION 383 00:11:39,733 --> 00:11:41,201 OF AMERICAN HISTORY. 384 00:11:41,201 --> 00:11:42,569 I HAVE, LIKE, THREE HISTORICAL 385 00:11:42,569 --> 00:11:43,536 COMPILATIONS HERE. 386 00:11:43,536 --> 00:11:44,604 I CAN JUST READ THEM. 387 00:11:44,604 --> 00:11:46,206 AND I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT. 388 00:11:46,206 --> 00:11:47,607 I'M INTERESTED IN THE WEB." 389 00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:49,109 WAS VERY FRUSTRATED WITH 390 00:11:49,109 --> 00:11:49,442 SCHOOL. 391 00:11:49,442 --> 00:11:50,410 I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, THE 392 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:51,578 TEACHERS DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY 393 00:11:51,578 --> 00:11:52,780 WERE TALKING ABOUT AND THEY WERE 394 00:11:52,780 --> 00:11:54,181 VERY DOMINEERING AND CONTROLLING 395 00:11:54,181 --> 00:11:55,315 AND THE HOMEWORK WAS KIND OF A 396 00:11:55,315 --> 00:11:56,383 SHAM. 397 00:11:56,383 --> 00:11:57,785 AND IT WAS JUST, LIKE, YOU KNOW, 398 00:11:57,785 --> 00:11:59,186 ALL A WAY TO PIN STUDENTS 399 00:11:59,186 --> 00:12:00,553 TOGETHER AND FORCE THEM TO DO 400 00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:01,254 BUSY WORK. 401 00:12:01,254 --> 00:12:02,689 AND, YOU KNOW, I STARTED READING 402 00:12:02,689 --> 00:12:04,157 BOOKS ABOUT, LIKE, THE HISTORY 403 00:12:04,157 --> 00:12:05,358 OF EDUCATION AND HOW THIS 404 00:12:05,358 --> 00:12:06,794 EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM WAS DEVELOPED 405 00:12:06,794 --> 00:12:08,361 AND, YOU KNOW, ALTERNATIVES TO 406 00:12:08,361 --> 00:12:09,696 IT AND WAYS THAT PEOPLE COULD 407 00:12:09,696 --> 00:12:11,331 ACTUALLY LEARN THINGS AS OPPOSED 408 00:12:11,331 --> 00:12:12,766 TO JUST REGURGITATING FACTS THAT 409 00:12:12,766 --> 00:12:13,733 TEACHERS TOLD THEM. 410 00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:15,235 AND THAT KIND OF LED ME DOWN 411 00:12:15,235 --> 00:12:16,669 THIS PATH OF QUESTIONING THINGS. 412 00:12:16,669 --> 00:12:18,205 YOU KNOW, ONCE I QUESTIONED THE 413 00:12:18,205 --> 00:12:19,539 SCHOOL I WAS IN OR QUESTIONED 414 00:12:19,539 --> 00:12:20,774 THE SOCIETY THAT BUILT THE 415 00:12:20,774 --> 00:12:22,142 SCHOOL, I QUESTIONED THE 416 00:12:22,142 --> 00:12:23,376 BUSINESSES THE SCHOOLS WERE 417 00:12:23,376 --> 00:12:24,611 TRAINING PEOPLE FOR, AND I 418 00:12:24,611 --> 00:12:25,846 QUESTIONED THE GOVERNMENT THAT, 419 00:12:25,846 --> 00:12:27,147 YOU KNOW, SET UP THIS WHOLE 420 00:12:27,147 --> 00:12:27,547 STRUCTURE. 421 00:12:27,547 --> 00:12:28,816 ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS MOST 422 00:12:28,816 --> 00:12:30,217 PASSIONATE ABOUT WAS COPYRIGHT, 423 00:12:30,217 --> 00:12:31,451 ESPECIALLY IN THOSE EARLY DAYS. 424 00:12:31,451 --> 00:12:33,486 COPYRIGHT HAS ALWAYS BEEN 425 00:12:33,486 --> 00:12:35,488 SOMETHING OF A BURDEN ON THE 426 00:12:35,488 --> 00:12:37,424 PUBLISHING INDUSTRY AND ON 427 00:12:37,424 --> 00:12:39,326 READERS, BUT IT WASN'T AN 428 00:12:39,326 --> 00:12:40,593 EXCESSIVE BURDEN. 429 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:42,595 IT WAS A REASONABLE INSTITUTION 430 00:12:42,595 --> 00:12:44,497 TO HAVE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE 431 00:12:44,497 --> 00:12:45,833 THAT PEOPLE GOT PAID. 432 00:12:45,833 --> 00:12:47,634 WHAT AARON'S GENERATION 433 00:12:47,634 --> 00:12:49,702 EXPERIENCED WAS THE COLLISION 434 00:12:49,702 --> 00:12:51,839 BETWEEN THIS ANTIQUE COPYRIGHT 435 00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:53,473 SYSTEM AND THIS AMAZING, NEW 436 00:12:53,473 --> 00:12:55,208 THING WE WERE TRYING TO BUILD, 437 00:12:55,208 --> 00:12:56,576 THE INTERNET AND THE WEB. 438 00:12:56,576 --> 00:12:58,345 THESE THINGS COLLIDED, AND WHAT 439 00:12:58,345 --> 00:13:01,714 WE GOT WAS CHAOS. 440 00:13:01,714 --> 00:13:03,350 HE THEN MET HARVARD LAW 441 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:04,852 PROFESSOR LAWRENCE LESSIG, WHO 442 00:13:04,852 --> 00:13:06,619 WAS THEN CHALLENGING COPYRIGHT 443 00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:08,188 LAW IN THE SUPREME COURT. 444 00:13:08,188 --> 00:13:09,689 A YOUNG AARON SWARTZ FLEW TO 445 00:13:09,689 --> 00:13:11,358 WASHINGTON TO LISTEN TO THE 446 00:13:11,358 --> 00:13:12,659 SUPREME COURT HEARINGS. 447 00:13:12,659 --> 00:13:14,427 I AM AARON SWARTZ, AND I AM 448 00:13:14,427 --> 00:13:16,296 HERE TO LISTEN TO THE -- TO SEE 449 00:13:16,296 --> 00:13:17,464 THE ELDRED ARGUMENT. 450 00:13:17,464 --> 00:13:19,332 WHY DID YOU FLY OUT HERE FROM 451 00:13:19,332 --> 00:13:21,301 CHICAGO AND COME ALL THIS WAY TO 452 00:13:21,301 --> 00:13:22,502 SEE THE ELDRED ARGUMENT? 453 00:13:22,502 --> 00:13:23,803 THAT'S A MORE DIFFICULT 454 00:13:23,803 --> 00:13:28,475 QUESTION. 455 00:13:28,475 --> 00:13:31,544 'CAUSE I -- I DON'T KNOW. 456 00:13:31,544 --> 00:13:33,146 VERY EXCITING TO SEE THE SUPREME 457 00:13:33,146 --> 00:13:34,314 COURT, ESPECIALLY SUCH A 458 00:13:34,314 --> 00:13:36,149 PRESTIGIOUS CASE AS THIS ONE. 459 00:13:41,621 --> 00:13:43,190 LESSIG WAS ALSO MOVING 460 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:44,824 FORWARD WITH A NEW WAY TO DEFINE 461 00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:46,426 COPYRIGHT ON THE INTERNET. 462 00:13:46,426 --> 00:13:48,661 IT WAS CALLED CREATIVE COMMONS. 463 00:13:48,661 --> 00:13:50,363 SO, THE SIMPLE IDEA OF 464 00:13:50,363 --> 00:13:51,965 CREATIVE COMMONS IS TO GIVE 465 00:13:51,965 --> 00:13:53,967 PEOPLE CREATORS, A SIMPLE WAY TO 466 00:13:53,967 --> 00:13:56,369 MARK THEIR CREATIVITY WITH THE 467 00:13:56,369 --> 00:13:58,906 FREEDOMS THEY INTENDED TO CARRY. 468 00:13:58,906 --> 00:14:00,573 SO, IF COPYRIGHT IS ALL ABOUT 469 00:14:00,573 --> 00:14:02,242 "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED," THEN THIS 470 00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:03,510 IS A KIND OF "SOME RIGHTS 471 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:04,177 RESERVED." 472 00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:05,578 I WANT A SIMPLE WAY TO SAY TO 473 00:14:05,578 --> 00:14:06,947 YOU, "HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN DO 474 00:14:06,947 --> 00:14:08,648 WITH MY WORK, EVEN IF THERE ARE 475 00:14:08,648 --> 00:14:10,283 OTHER THINGS WHICH YOU NEED TO 476 00:14:10,283 --> 00:14:11,784 GET MY PERMISSION BEFORE YOU CAN 477 00:14:11,784 --> 00:14:12,852 DO." 478 00:14:12,852 --> 00:14:14,321 AND AARON'S ROLE WAS THE 479 00:14:14,321 --> 00:14:15,222 COMPUTER PART. 480 00:14:15,222 --> 00:14:16,689 LIKE, HOW DO YOU ARCHITECT THE 481 00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:18,425 LICENSES SO IT'LL BE SIMPLE AND 482 00:14:18,425 --> 00:14:19,927 UNDERSTANDABLE AND EXPRESSED IN 483 00:14:19,927 --> 00:14:21,461 A WAY THAT MACHINES COULD 484 00:14:21,461 --> 00:14:22,262 PROCESS IT? 485 00:14:22,262 --> 00:14:23,763 AND PEOPLE ARE LIKE, "WHY DO 486 00:14:23,763 --> 00:14:25,232 YOU HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, 487 00:14:25,232 --> 00:14:26,599 15-YEAR-OLD KID WRITING THE 488 00:14:26,599 --> 00:14:27,800 SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE 489 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:28,801 CREATIVE COMMONS? 490 00:14:28,801 --> 00:14:30,003 LIKE, DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S A 491 00:14:30,003 --> 00:14:30,737 HUGE MISTAKE?" 492 00:14:30,737 --> 00:14:31,905 AND LARRY'S LIKE, "THE BIGGEST 493 00:14:31,905 --> 00:14:33,240 MISTAKE WE WOULD HAVE IS NOT 494 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,841 LISTENING TO THIS KID." 495 00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,409 HE BARELY IS NOT EVEN TALL 496 00:14:36,409 --> 00:14:37,844 ENOUGH TO GET OVER THE PODIUM, 497 00:14:37,844 --> 00:14:39,446 AND IT WASN'T THESE MOVEABLE 498 00:14:39,446 --> 00:14:39,879 PODIUMS. 499 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,481 IT WAS AN EMBARRASSING THING 500 00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:42,983 WHERE ONCE HE PUT HIS SCREEN UP, 501 00:14:42,983 --> 00:14:44,484 NOBODY COULD SEE HIS FACE. 502 00:14:44,484 --> 00:14:45,718 [ CHUCKLES ] 503 00:14:45,718 --> 00:14:47,620 WHEN YOU COME TO OUR WEBSITE 504 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:49,289 HERE AND YOU GO TO "CHOOSE 505 00:14:49,289 --> 00:14:51,224 LICENSE," IT GIVES YOU THIS LIST 506 00:14:51,224 --> 00:14:52,926 OF OPTIONS AND EXPLAINS WHAT IT 507 00:14:52,926 --> 00:14:53,994 MEANS. 508 00:14:53,994 --> 00:14:55,828 AND YOU FILL OUT THREE SIMPLE 509 00:14:55,828 --> 00:14:56,629 QUESTIONS. 510 00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:57,998 "DO YOU WANT TO REQUIRE 511 00:14:57,998 --> 00:14:58,932 ATTRIBUTION?" 512 00:14:58,932 --> 00:15:00,900 "DO YOU WANT TO ALLOW COMMERCIAL 513 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,102 USES OF YOUR WORK?" 514 00:15:02,102 --> 00:15:03,536 "DO YOU WANT TO ALLOW 515 00:15:03,536 --> 00:15:05,038 MODIFICATIONS OF YOUR WORK?" 516 00:15:05,038 --> 00:15:06,773 I WAS FLOORED -- JUST 517 00:15:06,773 --> 00:15:08,875 COMPLETELY FLABBERGASTED -- THAT 518 00:15:08,875 --> 00:15:10,877 THESE ADULTS REGARDED HIM AS AN 519 00:15:10,877 --> 00:15:11,578 ADULT. 520 00:15:11,578 --> 00:15:12,946 AND AARON STOOD UP THERE IN 521 00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:14,647 FRONT OF A WHOLE AUDIENCE FULL 522 00:15:14,647 --> 00:15:16,016 OF PEOPLE AND JUST STARTED 523 00:15:16,016 --> 00:15:17,717 TALKING ABOUT THE PLATFORM THAT 524 00:15:17,717 --> 00:15:18,718 HE'D CREATED FOR 525 00:15:18,718 --> 00:15:19,719 CREATIVE COMMONS. 526 00:15:19,719 --> 00:15:21,354 AND THEY WERE ALL LISTENING TO 527 00:15:21,354 --> 00:15:21,654 HIM. 528 00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:23,856 JUST, I WAS SITTING AT THE BACK 529 00:15:23,856 --> 00:15:25,858 THINKING, "HE'S JUST A KID. 530 00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:28,295 WHY ARE THEY LISTENING TO HIM?" 531 00:15:28,295 --> 00:15:29,029 BUT THEY DID. 532 00:15:29,029 --> 00:15:30,463 WELL, I DON'T THINK I 533 00:15:30,463 --> 00:15:31,764 COMPREHENDED IT FULLY. 534 00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,566 THOUGH CRITICS HAVE SAID IT 535 00:15:33,566 --> 00:15:35,335 DOES LITTLE TO ENSURE ARTISTS 536 00:15:35,335 --> 00:15:36,869 GET PAID FOR THEIR WORK, THE 537 00:15:36,869 --> 00:15:38,738 SUCCESS OF CREATIVE COMMONS HAS 538 00:15:38,738 --> 00:15:39,706 BEEN ENORMOUS. 539 00:15:39,706 --> 00:15:41,708 CURRENTLY ON THE WEBSITE FLICKR 540 00:15:41,708 --> 00:15:43,676 ALONE, OVER 200 MILLION PEOPLE 541 00:15:43,676 --> 00:15:44,811 USE SOME FORM OF 542 00:15:44,811 --> 00:15:46,546 CREATIVE COMMONS LICENSE. 543 00:15:46,546 --> 00:15:49,449 HE CONTRIBUTED THROUGH HIS 544 00:15:49,449 --> 00:15:52,519 TECHNICAL ABILITIES, AND YET IT 545 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:55,055 WAS NOT SIMPLY A TECHNICAL 546 00:15:55,055 --> 00:15:56,789 MATTER TO HIM. 547 00:15:56,789 --> 00:15:59,392 AARON OFTEN WROTE CANDIDLY IN 548 00:15:59,392 --> 00:16:00,893 HIS PERSONAL BLOG. 549 00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:03,396 "I THINK DEEPLY ABOUT THINGS, 550 00:16:03,396 --> 00:16:04,931 AND I WANT OTHERS TO DO 551 00:16:04,931 --> 00:16:05,832 LIKEWISE. 552 00:16:05,832 --> 00:16:07,867 I WORK FOR IDEAS AND LEARN FROM 553 00:16:07,867 --> 00:16:08,601 PEOPLE. 554 00:16:08,601 --> 00:16:10,603 I DON'T LIKE EXCLUDING PEOPLE. 555 00:16:10,603 --> 00:16:12,672 I'M A PERFECTIONIST, BUT I WON'T 556 00:16:12,672 --> 00:16:14,474 LET THAT GET IN THE WAY OF 557 00:16:14,474 --> 00:16:15,442 PUBLICATION. 558 00:16:15,442 --> 00:16:16,676 EXCEPT FOR EDUCATION AND 559 00:16:16,676 --> 00:16:18,345 ENTERTAINMENT, I'M NOT GOING TO 560 00:16:18,345 --> 00:16:19,746 WASTE MY TIME ON THINGS THAT 561 00:16:19,746 --> 00:16:20,880 WON'T HAVE AN IMPACT. 562 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,349 I TRY TO BE FRIENDS WITH 563 00:16:22,349 --> 00:16:23,883 EVERYONE, BUT I HATE IT WHEN YOU 564 00:16:23,883 --> 00:16:25,752 DON'T TAKE ME SERIOUSLY. 565 00:16:25,752 --> 00:16:27,487 I DON'T HOLD GRUDGES. 566 00:16:27,487 --> 00:16:28,955 IT'S NOT PRODUCTIVE. 567 00:16:28,955 --> 00:16:31,391 BUT I LEARN FROM MY EXPERIENCE. 568 00:16:31,391 --> 00:16:33,526 I WANT TO MAKE THE WORLD A 569 00:16:33,526 --> 00:16:39,832 BETTER PLACE." 570 00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,501 IN 2004, SWARTZ LEAVES 571 00:16:41,501 --> 00:16:43,103 HIGHLAND PARK AND ENROLLS IN 572 00:16:43,103 --> 00:16:44,537 STANFORD UNIVERSITY. 573 00:16:44,537 --> 00:16:45,972 HE HAD HAD ULCERATIVE 574 00:16:45,972 --> 00:16:47,540 COLITIS, WHICH WAS VERY 575 00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:49,509 TROUBLING, AND WE WERE CONCERNED 576 00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:51,478 ABOUT HIM TAKING HIS MEDICATION. 577 00:16:51,478 --> 00:16:53,113 HE GOT HOSPITALIZED, AND HE 578 00:16:53,113 --> 00:16:54,847 WOULD TAKE THIS COCKTAIL OF 579 00:16:54,847 --> 00:16:55,948 PILLS EVERY DAY. 580 00:16:55,948 --> 00:16:57,650 AND ONE OF THOSE PILLS WAS A 581 00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:59,052 STEROID, WHICH STUNTED HIS 582 00:16:59,052 --> 00:17:00,687 GROWTH AND MADE HIM FEEL 583 00:17:00,687 --> 00:17:02,489 DIFFERENT FROM ANY OF THE OTHER 584 00:17:02,489 --> 00:17:03,556 STUDENTS. 585 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:05,058 AARON, I THINK, SHOWS UP AT 586 00:17:05,058 --> 00:17:06,526 STANFORD READY TO DO A 587 00:17:06,526 --> 00:17:08,428 SCHOLARSHIP AND FINDS HIMSELF IN 588 00:17:08,428 --> 00:17:09,829 EFFECTIVELY A BABYSITTING 589 00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:11,398 PROGRAM FOR OVERACHIEVING 590 00:17:11,398 --> 00:17:13,933 HIGH-SCHOOLERS WHO, IN FOUR 591 00:17:13,933 --> 00:17:16,603 YEARS, ARE MEANT TO BECOME, YOU 592 00:17:16,603 --> 00:17:19,038 KNOW, CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY AND 593 00:17:19,038 --> 00:17:20,640 ONE-PERCENTERS. 594 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,710 AND, LIKE, I THINK IT JUST MADE 595 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:25,078 HIM BANANAS. 596 00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:27,414 IN 2005, AFTER ONLY ONE YEAR 597 00:17:27,414 --> 00:17:29,649 OF COLLEGE, SWARTZ WAS OFFERED A 598 00:17:29,649 --> 00:17:31,518 SPOT AT THE NEW START-UP 599 00:17:31,518 --> 00:17:33,052 INCUBATION FIRM CALLED 600 00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:34,687 Y COMBINATOR, LED BY 601 00:17:34,687 --> 00:17:35,722 PAUL GRAHAM. 602 00:17:35,722 --> 00:17:37,657 HE'S LIKE, "HEY, I HAVE THIS 603 00:17:37,657 --> 00:17:39,126 IDEA FOR A WEBSITE," AND 604 00:17:39,126 --> 00:17:41,094 PAUL GRAHAM LIKES HIM ENOUGH AND 605 00:17:41,094 --> 00:17:42,562 SAYS, "YEAH, SURE." 606 00:17:42,562 --> 00:17:43,863 SO AARON DROPS OUT OF SCHOOL, 607 00:17:43,863 --> 00:17:45,798 MOVES TO THIS APARTMENT. 608 00:17:45,798 --> 00:17:47,600 SO, THIS USED TO BE AARON'S 609 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,502 APARTMENT WHEN HE MOVED HERE. 610 00:17:49,502 --> 00:17:51,504 I HAVE BIG MEMORIES OF MY FATHER 611 00:17:51,504 --> 00:17:53,173 TELLING ME HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS 612 00:17:53,173 --> 00:17:55,074 TO GET A LEASE, 'CAUSE AARON HAD 613 00:17:55,074 --> 00:17:56,943 NO CREDIT AND HE DROPPED OUT OF 614 00:17:56,943 --> 00:17:58,010 COLLEGE. 615 00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:59,679 AARON LIVED IN WHAT'S NOW THE 616 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:01,181 LIVING ROOM, AND SOME OF THE 617 00:18:01,181 --> 00:18:02,915 POSTERS ARE LEFT OVER FROM WHEN 618 00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:03,950 AARON LIVED HERE. 619 00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:05,051 AND THEN THE LIBRARY. 620 00:18:05,051 --> 00:18:06,819 THERE ARE MORE BOOKS, BUT A LOT 621 00:18:06,819 --> 00:18:10,857 OF THEM ARE AARON'S. 622 00:18:10,857 --> 00:18:13,193 AARON'S Y COMBINATOR SITE WAS 623 00:18:13,193 --> 00:18:15,728 CALLED INFOGAMI, A TOOL TO BUILD 624 00:18:15,728 --> 00:18:16,663 WEBSITES. 625 00:18:16,663 --> 00:18:18,531 BUT INFOGAMI STRUGGLES TO FIND 626 00:18:18,531 --> 00:18:20,133 USERS, AND SWARTZ EVENTUALLY 627 00:18:20,133 --> 00:18:22,068 MERGES HIS COMPANY WITH ANOTHER 628 00:18:22,068 --> 00:18:23,970 Y COMBINATOR PROJECT IN NEED OF 629 00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:24,604 HELP. 630 00:18:24,604 --> 00:18:26,005 IT WAS A PROJECT HEADED BY 631 00:18:26,005 --> 00:18:27,840 STEVE HUFFMAN AND ALEXIS OHANIAN 632 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,242 CALLED REDDIT. 633 00:18:29,242 --> 00:18:30,910 THERE WE WERE STARTING FROM 634 00:18:30,910 --> 00:18:32,579 ALMOST NOTHING -- NO USERS, NO 635 00:18:32,579 --> 00:18:34,013 MONEY, NO CODE -- AND GROWING 636 00:18:34,013 --> 00:18:35,715 DAY BY DAY INTO A HUGELY POPULAR 637 00:18:35,715 --> 00:18:36,183 WEBSITE. 638 00:18:36,183 --> 00:18:37,684 AND IT SHOWED NO SIGNS OF 639 00:18:37,684 --> 00:18:38,451 LETTING UP. 640 00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:39,952 FIRST WE HAD 1,000 USERS, THEN 641 00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:41,688 10,000, THEN 20,000, AND ON AND 642 00:18:41,688 --> 00:18:41,988 ON. 643 00:18:41,988 --> 00:18:43,723 IT WAS JUST INCREDIBLE. 644 00:18:43,723 --> 00:18:45,792 REDDIT BECOMES HUGE, AND IT'S 645 00:18:45,792 --> 00:18:47,794 A REAL SORT OF GEEKY CORNER OF 646 00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:51,498 THE INTERNET. 647 00:18:51,498 --> 00:18:54,567 THERE'S A LOT OF HUMOR, THERE'S 648 00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:57,570 A LOT OF ART, AND THERE'S JUST 649 00:18:57,570 --> 00:19:01,208 PEOPLE WHO FLOCK TO THE SITE AND 650 00:19:01,208 --> 00:19:03,276 MAKE THAT SITE THE MAIN SITE 651 00:19:03,276 --> 00:19:05,612 THEY GO TO EVERY MORNING TO GET 652 00:19:05,612 --> 00:19:07,079 THEIR NEWS. 653 00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,582 REDDIT KIND OF JUST BORDERS ON 654 00:19:09,582 --> 00:19:11,851 CHAOS AT SOME LEVEL, SO ON THE 655 00:19:11,851 --> 00:19:14,053 ONE HAND, IT'S A PLACE WHERE 656 00:19:14,053 --> 00:19:16,623 PEOPLE DISCUSS NEWS OF THE DAY, 657 00:19:16,623 --> 00:19:18,191 TECHNOLOGY, POLITICS, AND 658 00:19:18,191 --> 00:19:20,193 ISSUES, AND YET THERE IS A LOT 659 00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:22,128 OF KIND OF NOT-SAFE-FOR-WORK 660 00:19:22,128 --> 00:19:24,096 MATERIAL, OFFENSIVE MATERIAL. 661 00:19:24,096 --> 00:19:26,699 THERE'S SOME SUB-REDDITS WHERE 662 00:19:26,699 --> 00:19:28,901 TROLLS FIND A WELCOME HOME. 663 00:19:28,901 --> 00:19:30,670 AND SO, IN THAT SENSE, REDDIT 664 00:19:30,670 --> 00:19:32,038 HAS BEEN KIND OF HOME TO 665 00:19:32,038 --> 00:19:33,306 CONTROVERSY, AS WELL. 666 00:19:33,306 --> 00:19:35,141 IT KIND OF SITS ON THAT EDGE OF 667 00:19:35,141 --> 00:19:35,808 CHAOS. 668 00:19:35,808 --> 00:19:37,644 REDDIT CATCHES THE ATTENTION 669 00:19:37,644 --> 00:19:39,312 OF THE CORPORATE MAGAZINE GIANT 670 00:19:39,312 --> 00:19:40,980 CONDé NAST, WHO MAKES AN OFFER 671 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:42,048 TO BUY THE COMPANY. 672 00:19:42,048 --> 00:19:43,550 SOME LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY, 673 00:19:43,550 --> 00:19:44,784 LARGE ENOUGH THAT MY DAD WAS 674 00:19:44,784 --> 00:19:46,052 GETTING BUGGED WITH QUESTIONS 675 00:19:46,052 --> 00:19:49,155 ABOUT, LIKE, "HOW DO I STORE 676 00:19:49,155 --> 00:19:50,857 THIS MONEY?" 677 00:19:50,857 --> 00:19:51,991 LIKE, A LOT OF MONEY. 678 00:19:51,991 --> 00:19:53,092 LIKE, A LOT OF MONEY. 679 00:19:53,092 --> 00:19:55,295 LIKE... 680 00:19:55,295 --> 00:19:57,730 PROBABLY MORE THAN A MILLION 681 00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:59,266 DOLLARS, BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY 682 00:19:59,266 --> 00:19:59,866 KNOW. 683 00:19:59,866 --> 00:20:01,133 AND HE IS HOW OLD AT THE 684 00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:01,668 TIME? 685 00:20:01,668 --> 00:20:04,203 LIKE 19, 20. 686 00:20:04,203 --> 00:20:06,573 SO, HE WAS IN THIS APARTMENT. 687 00:20:06,573 --> 00:20:08,808 THEY, LIKE, SAT AROUND ON WHAT 688 00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:11,077 PREDATED THESE COUCHES, HACKING 689 00:20:11,077 --> 00:20:12,044 ON REDDIT. 690 00:20:12,044 --> 00:20:14,080 AND WHEN THEY SOLD REDDIT, THEY 691 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,182 THREW A GIANT PARTY AND THEN ALL 692 00:20:16,182 --> 00:20:18,217 FLEW OUT TO CALIFORNIA THE NEXT 693 00:20:18,217 --> 00:20:22,789 DAY AND LEFT THE KEYS WITH ME. 694 00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:23,756 IT WAS FUNNY. 695 00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:24,991 YOU KNOW, HE JUST SOLD A 696 00:20:24,991 --> 00:20:26,559 START-UP, SO WE ALL KIND OF 697 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:27,960 PRESUMED HE WAS THE RICHEST 698 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,696 PERSON AROUND, BUT HE SAID, "OH, 699 00:20:29,696 --> 00:20:31,197 NO, I'LL TAKE THIS TINY, LITTLE 700 00:20:31,197 --> 00:20:32,299 SHOEBOX-SIZED ROOM. 701 00:20:32,299 --> 00:20:33,366 THAT'S ALL I NEED." 702 00:20:33,366 --> 00:20:35,067 LIKE, IT WAS BARELY LARGER THAN 703 00:20:35,067 --> 00:20:35,768 A CLOSET. 704 00:20:35,768 --> 00:20:37,770 THE IDEA OF HIM SPENDING HIS 705 00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:39,038 MONEY ON FANCY OBJECTS JUST 706 00:20:39,038 --> 00:20:40,172 SEEMED SO IMPLAUSIBLE. 707 00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:41,708 HE EXPLAINS, IT'S LIKE, "I 708 00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:43,042 LIKE LIVING IN APARTMENTS, SO 709 00:20:43,042 --> 00:20:44,344 I'M NOT GONNA SPEND A LOT OF 710 00:20:44,344 --> 00:20:45,912 MONEY ON A NEW PLACE TO LIVE. 711 00:20:45,912 --> 00:20:47,213 I'M NOT GONNA BUY A MANSION. 712 00:20:47,213 --> 00:20:48,781 AND I LIKE WEARING JEANS AND A 713 00:20:48,781 --> 00:20:50,216 T-SHIRT, SO I'M NOT GONNA SPEND 714 00:20:50,216 --> 00:20:51,651 ANY MORE MONEY ON CLOTHES. 715 00:20:51,651 --> 00:20:53,152 SO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY 716 00:20:53,152 --> 00:20:54,020 NO BIG DEAL." 717 00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:55,722 WHAT IS A BIG DEAL TO SWARTZ 718 00:20:55,722 --> 00:20:57,089 IS HOW TRAFFIC FLOWS ON THE 719 00:20:57,089 --> 00:20:58,791 INTERNET AND WHAT COMMANDS OUR 720 00:20:58,791 --> 00:20:59,859 ATTENTION. 721 00:20:59,859 --> 00:21:00,860 IN THE OLD SYSTEM OF 722 00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:01,794 BROADCASTING, YOU ARE 723 00:21:01,794 --> 00:21:02,862 FUNDAMENTALLY LIMITED BY THE 724 00:21:02,862 --> 00:21:04,030 AMOUNT OF SPACE IN THE AIRWAVES, 725 00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:05,197 YOU KNOW. 726 00:21:05,197 --> 00:21:06,366 YOU CAN ONLY SEND OUT 10 727 00:21:06,366 --> 00:21:07,867 CHANNELS OVER THE AIRWAVES OF 728 00:21:07,867 --> 00:21:08,835 TELEVISION, RIGHT? 729 00:21:08,835 --> 00:21:10,236 OR EVEN WITH CABLE, YOU HAD 500 730 00:21:10,236 --> 00:21:10,903 CHANNELS. 731 00:21:10,903 --> 00:21:12,238 ON THE INTERNET, EVERYBODY CAN 732 00:21:12,238 --> 00:21:13,105 HAVE A CHANNEL. 733 00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:14,407 EVERYONE CAN GET A BLOG OR A 734 00:21:14,407 --> 00:21:15,207 MySpace PAGE. 735 00:21:15,207 --> 00:21:16,809 EVERYONE HAS A WAY OF EXPRESSING 736 00:21:16,809 --> 00:21:17,344 THEMSELVES. 737 00:21:17,344 --> 00:21:18,911 AND SO, WHAT YOU SEE NOW IS NOT 738 00:21:18,911 --> 00:21:20,279 A QUESTION OF WHO GETS ACCESS TO 739 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:21,080 THE AIRWAVES. 740 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,281 IT'S A QUESTION OF WHO GETS 741 00:21:22,281 --> 00:21:23,816 CONTROL OVER THE WAYS YOU FIND 742 00:21:23,816 --> 00:21:24,216 PEOPLE. 743 00:21:24,216 --> 00:21:25,785 YOU KNOW, YOU START SEEING POWER 744 00:21:25,785 --> 00:21:26,953 CENTRALIZING ON SITES LIKE 745 00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:27,987 GOOGLE, THESE SORT OF 746 00:21:27,987 --> 00:21:29,356 GATEKEEPERS THAT TELL YOU WHERE 747 00:21:29,356 --> 00:21:30,923 ON THE INTERNET YOU WANT TO GO, 748 00:21:30,923 --> 00:21:32,258 THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE YOU YOUR 749 00:21:32,258 --> 00:21:33,860 SOURCES OF NEWS AND INFORMATION. 750 00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:35,061 SO, IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, ONLY 751 00:21:35,061 --> 00:21:36,329 CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE A LICENSE TO 752 00:21:36,329 --> 00:21:36,829 SPEAK. 753 00:21:36,829 --> 00:21:38,030 NOW EVERYONE HAS A LICENSE TO 754 00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:38,331 SPEAK. 755 00:21:38,331 --> 00:21:39,666 IT'S A QUESTION OF WHO GETS 756 00:21:39,666 --> 00:21:41,300 HEARD. 757 00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:46,238 AFTER HE STARTED WORKING IN 758 00:21:46,238 --> 00:21:48,307 SAN FRANCISCO AT CONDé NAST, HE 759 00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:50,877 COMES INTO THE OFFICE, AND THEY 760 00:21:50,877 --> 00:21:52,178 WANT TO GIVE HIM A COMPUTER WITH 761 00:21:52,178 --> 00:21:53,413 ALL THIS CRAP INSTALLED ON IT 762 00:21:53,413 --> 00:21:54,847 AND SAY THAT HE CAN'T INSTALL 763 00:21:54,847 --> 00:21:56,148 ANY NEW THINGS ON HIS COMPUTER, 764 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:57,183 WHICH TO A DEVELOPER IS 765 00:21:57,183 --> 00:21:58,785 OUTRAGEOUS, RIGHT? 766 00:21:58,785 --> 00:21:59,852 FROM THE FIRST DAY, HE WAS 767 00:21:59,852 --> 00:22:00,987 COMPLAINING ABOUT ALL THIS 768 00:22:00,987 --> 00:22:04,290 STUFF. 769 00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:05,958 "GRAY WALLS, GRAY DESKS, GRAY 770 00:22:05,958 --> 00:22:06,393 NOISE. 771 00:22:06,393 --> 00:22:08,227 THE FIRST DAY I SHOWED UP HERE, 772 00:22:08,227 --> 00:22:09,862 I SIMPLY COULDN'T TAKE IT. 773 00:22:09,862 --> 00:22:11,398 BY LUNCHTIME, I HAD LITERALLY 774 00:22:11,398 --> 00:22:13,032 LOCKED MYSELF IN A BATHROOM 775 00:22:13,032 --> 00:22:14,401 STALL AND STARTED CRYING. 776 00:22:14,401 --> 00:22:16,102 I CAN'T IMAGINE STAYING SANE 777 00:22:16,102 --> 00:22:17,870 WITH SOMEONE BUZZING IN MY EAR 778 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:19,406 ALL DAY, LET ALONE GETTING AN 779 00:22:19,406 --> 00:22:20,473 ACTUAL WORK DONE. 780 00:22:20,473 --> 00:22:22,008 NOBODY ELSE SEEMS TO GET WORK 781 00:22:22,008 --> 00:22:22,975 DONE HERE, EITHER. 782 00:22:22,975 --> 00:22:24,343 EVERYBODY'S ALWAYS COMING INTO 783 00:22:24,343 --> 00:22:25,978 OUR ROOM TO HANG OUT AND CHAT OR 784 00:22:25,978 --> 00:22:27,179 INVITE US TO PLAY THE NEW 785 00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:28,781 VIDEO-GAME SYSTEM THAT WIRED IS 786 00:22:28,781 --> 00:22:31,851 TESTING." 787 00:22:31,851 --> 00:22:33,986 HE REALLY HAD DIFFERENT 788 00:22:33,986 --> 00:22:35,822 ASPIRATIONS THAT WERE 789 00:22:35,822 --> 00:22:37,690 POLITICALLY ORIENTED. 790 00:22:37,690 --> 00:22:39,459 AND SILICON VALLEY JUST DOESN'T 791 00:22:39,459 --> 00:22:41,394 REALLY QUITE HAVE THAT CULTURE 792 00:22:41,394 --> 00:22:45,064 THAT ORIENTS TECHNICAL ACTIVITY 793 00:22:45,064 --> 00:22:46,332 FOR THE PURPOSES OF POLITICAL 794 00:22:46,332 --> 00:22:46,899 GOALS. 795 00:22:46,899 --> 00:22:48,134 AARON HATED WORKING FOR A 796 00:22:48,134 --> 00:22:48,868 CORPORATION. 797 00:22:48,868 --> 00:22:50,002 THEY ALL HATE WORKING FOR 798 00:22:50,002 --> 00:22:51,370 CONDé NAST, BUT AARON IS, LIKE, 799 00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:52,839 THE ONLY ONE WHO'S NOT GONNA 800 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:53,239 TAKE IT. 801 00:22:53,239 --> 00:22:55,007 AND AARON BASICALLY GETS HIMSELF 802 00:22:55,007 --> 00:22:56,509 FIRED BY NOT SHOWING UP TO WORK 803 00:22:56,509 --> 00:23:00,312 EVER. 804 00:23:00,312 --> 00:23:02,114 IT WAS SAID TO BE A MESSY 805 00:23:02,114 --> 00:23:02,849 BREAKUP. 806 00:23:02,849 --> 00:23:04,216 BOTH ALEXIS OHANIAN AND 807 00:23:04,216 --> 00:23:05,952 STEVE HUFFMAN DECLINED TO BE 808 00:23:05,952 --> 00:23:08,421 INTERVIEWED FOR THIS FILM. 809 00:23:08,421 --> 00:23:10,457 HE REJECTED THE BUSINESS 810 00:23:10,457 --> 00:23:11,924 WORLD. 811 00:23:11,924 --> 00:23:13,760 ONE OF THE REALLY IMPORTANT 812 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,528 THINGS TO REMEMBER ABOUT THAT 813 00:23:15,528 --> 00:23:17,396 CHOICE WHEN AARON DECIDED TO 814 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,365 KIND OF LEAVE START-UP CULTURE 815 00:23:19,365 --> 00:23:21,233 IS THAT HE WAS ALSO LEAVING 816 00:23:21,233 --> 00:23:23,235 BEHIND THE THINGS THAT HAD MADE 817 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:27,073 HIM FAMOUS AND WELL-LOVED. 818 00:23:27,073 --> 00:23:29,175 AND, YOU KNOW, HE WAS AT RISK OF 819 00:23:29,175 --> 00:23:30,443 LETTING DOWN FANS. 820 00:23:30,443 --> 00:23:32,211 HE GOT TO WHERE HE WAS 821 00:23:32,211 --> 00:23:34,346 SUPPOSED TO BE GOING AND HAD THE 822 00:23:34,346 --> 00:23:35,982 SELF-AWARENESS AND THE 823 00:23:35,982 --> 00:23:40,319 ORNERINESS TO REALIZE THAT HE 824 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:41,854 HAD CLIMBED THE MOUNTAIN OF SHIT 825 00:23:41,854 --> 00:23:43,089 TO PLUCK THE SINGLE ROSE AND 826 00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:44,290 DISCOVERED THAT HE'D LOST HIS 827 00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:45,124 SENSE OF SMELL. 828 00:23:45,124 --> 00:23:47,193 AND RATHER THAN SIT THERE AND 829 00:23:47,193 --> 00:23:49,361 INSIST THAT IT WASN'T AS BAD AS 830 00:23:49,361 --> 00:23:51,363 IT SEEMED AND HE DID GET THE 831 00:23:51,363 --> 00:23:54,100 ROSE IN ANY EVENT, HE CLIMBED 832 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:57,003 BACK DOWN AGAIN, WHICH IS PRETTY 833 00:23:57,003 --> 00:23:57,837 COOL. 834 00:23:57,837 --> 00:23:59,371 THE WAY AARON ALWAYS SAW IT 835 00:23:59,371 --> 00:24:01,173 IS THAT PROGRAMMING IS MAGIC, 836 00:24:01,173 --> 00:24:01,574 RIGHT? 837 00:24:01,574 --> 00:24:03,375 YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH THESE THINGS 838 00:24:03,375 --> 00:24:04,944 THAT NORMAL HUMANS CAN'T BY 839 00:24:04,944 --> 00:24:06,178 BEING ABLE TO PROGRAM. 840 00:24:06,178 --> 00:24:08,848 SO, IF YOU HAD MAGICAL POWERS, 841 00:24:08,848 --> 00:24:11,317 WOULD YOU USE THEM FOR GOOD OR 842 00:24:11,317 --> 00:24:14,286 TO MAKE YOU MOUNTAINS OF CASH? 843 00:24:14,286 --> 00:24:16,122 SWARTZ WAS INSPIRED BY ONE OF 844 00:24:16,122 --> 00:24:17,924 THE VISIONARIES HE HAD MET AS A 845 00:24:17,924 --> 00:24:19,458 CHILD, THE MAN WHO HAD INVENTED 846 00:24:19,458 --> 00:24:20,793 THE WORLD WIDE WEB, 847 00:24:20,793 --> 00:24:21,961 TIM BERNERS-LEE. 848 00:24:21,961 --> 00:24:23,863 IN THE 1990s, BERNERS-LEE WAS 849 00:24:23,863 --> 00:24:25,598 ARGUABLY SITTING ON ONE OF THE 850 00:24:25,598 --> 00:24:27,834 MOST LUCRATIVE INVENTIONS OF THE 851 00:24:27,834 --> 00:24:29,502 20th CENTURY, BUT INSTEAD OF 852 00:24:29,502 --> 00:24:31,871 PROFITING FROM THE INVENTION OF 853 00:24:31,871 --> 00:24:34,006 THE WORLD WIDE WEB, HE GAVE IT 854 00:24:34,006 --> 00:24:35,141 AWAY FOR FREE. 855 00:24:35,141 --> 00:24:37,209 IT IS THE ONLY REASON THE WORLD 856 00:24:37,209 --> 00:24:40,146 WIDE WEB EXISTS TODAY. 857 00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:42,448 AARON IS CERTAINLY DEEPLY 858 00:24:42,448 --> 00:24:44,183 INFLUENCED BY TIM. 859 00:24:44,183 --> 00:24:46,185 TIM IS CERTAINLY A VERY 860 00:24:46,185 --> 00:24:48,855 PROMINENT EARLY INTERNET GENIUS 861 00:24:48,855 --> 00:24:50,189 WHO DOESN'T IN ANY SENSE CASH 862 00:24:50,189 --> 00:24:50,489 OUT. 863 00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:52,024 HE'S NOT AT ALL INTERESTED IN 864 00:24:52,024 --> 00:24:53,425 HOW HE'S GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW 865 00:24:53,425 --> 00:24:55,394 TO MAKE A BILLION DOLLARS. 866 00:24:55,394 --> 00:24:56,929 PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SEEN, AH, 867 00:24:56,929 --> 00:24:58,297 THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE THERE. 868 00:24:58,297 --> 00:24:59,566 THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOTS OF 869 00:24:59,566 --> 00:25:01,167 LITTLE WEBS INSTEAD OF ONE BIG 870 00:25:01,167 --> 00:25:01,467 ONE. 871 00:25:01,467 --> 00:25:03,069 AND ONE LITTLE WEB AND LOTS OF 872 00:25:03,069 --> 00:25:04,336 LITTLE WEBS DOESN'T WORK, 873 00:25:04,336 --> 00:25:05,872 BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FOLLOW LINKS 874 00:25:05,872 --> 00:25:09,141 FROM ONE TO THE OTHER. 875 00:25:09,141 --> 00:25:10,409 NO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE 876 00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:12,011 CRITICAL MASS FOR THIS THING 877 00:25:12,011 --> 00:25:13,212 WITH THE ENTIRE PLANET. 878 00:25:13,212 --> 00:25:14,881 SO, IT'S NOT GONNA WORK UNLESS 879 00:25:14,881 --> 00:25:16,248 THE WHOLE PLANET CAN GET ON 880 00:25:16,248 --> 00:25:21,420 BOARD. 881 00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:24,090 I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, FEEL 882 00:25:24,090 --> 00:25:25,357 VERY STRONGLY THAT IT'S NOT 883 00:25:25,357 --> 00:25:26,993 ENOUGH TO JUST LIVE IN THE WORLD 884 00:25:26,993 --> 00:25:28,394 AS IT IS, TO JUST KIND OF TAKE 885 00:25:28,394 --> 00:25:30,029 WHAT YOU'RE GIVEN AND, YOU KNOW, 886 00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:31,363 FOLLOW THE THINGS THAT ADULTS 887 00:25:31,363 --> 00:25:32,665 TOLD YOU TO DO AND THAT, YOU 888 00:25:32,665 --> 00:25:34,233 KNOW, YOUR PARENTS TOLD YOU TO 889 00:25:34,233 --> 00:25:35,902 DO AND THAT SOCIETY TELLS YOU TO 890 00:25:35,902 --> 00:25:36,168 DO. 891 00:25:36,168 --> 00:25:37,469 I THINK YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BE 892 00:25:37,469 --> 00:25:38,237 QUESTIONING. 893 00:25:38,237 --> 00:25:39,471 YOU KNOW, I TAKE THIS VERY 894 00:25:39,471 --> 00:25:40,640 SCIENTIFIC ATTITUDE THAT 895 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,174 EVERYTHING YOU'VE LEARNED IS 896 00:25:42,174 --> 00:25:43,442 JUST PROVISIONAL, THAT, YOU 897 00:25:43,442 --> 00:25:44,644 KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS OPEN TO 898 00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:46,145 RECANTATION OR REFUTATION OR 899 00:25:46,145 --> 00:25:46,946 QUESTIONING. 900 00:25:46,946 --> 00:25:48,347 AND I THINK THE SAME APPLIES TO 901 00:25:48,347 --> 00:25:48,981 SOCIETY. 902 00:25:48,981 --> 00:25:50,516 ONCE I REALIZED THAT THERE WERE 903 00:25:50,516 --> 00:25:51,918 REAL, SERIOUS PROBLEMS, 904 00:25:51,918 --> 00:25:53,352 FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMS, THAT I 905 00:25:53,352 --> 00:25:55,087 COULD DO SOMETHING TO ADDRESS, I 906 00:25:55,087 --> 00:25:56,656 DIDN'T SEE A WAY TO FORGET THAT. 907 00:25:56,656 --> 00:26:01,728 I DIDN'T SEE A WAY NOT TO. 908 00:26:01,728 --> 00:26:03,730 WE JUST STARTED SPENDING A 909 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:05,564 LOT OF TIME JUST KIND OF AS 910 00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:07,667 FRIENDS. 911 00:26:07,667 --> 00:26:10,302 WE WOULD JUST TALK FOR HOURS 912 00:26:10,302 --> 00:26:13,205 INTO THE NIGHT. 913 00:26:13,205 --> 00:26:14,540 I DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE 914 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:16,342 UNDERSTOOD THAT HE WAS FLIRTING 915 00:26:16,342 --> 00:26:17,043 WITH ME. 916 00:26:17,043 --> 00:26:18,577 I THINK TO SOME DEGREE, I WAS 917 00:26:18,577 --> 00:26:20,346 LIKE, "THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA 918 00:26:20,346 --> 00:26:22,148 AND IMPOSSIBLE, AND THEREFORE I 919 00:26:22,148 --> 00:26:23,382 WILL PRETEND IT IS NOT 920 00:26:23,382 --> 00:26:24,216 HAPPENING." 921 00:26:24,216 --> 00:26:26,185 AS MY MARRIAGE WAS BREAKING DOWN 922 00:26:26,185 --> 00:26:28,120 AND I WAS REALLY STUCK WITH NOT 923 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,622 ANYWHERE TO GO, WE BECAME 924 00:26:29,622 --> 00:26:31,257 ROOMMATES AND BROUGHT MY 925 00:26:31,257 --> 00:26:33,960 DAUGHTER OVER. 926 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,227 WE MOVED IN AND FURNISHED THE 927 00:26:35,227 --> 00:26:36,295 HOUSE, AND IT WAS REALLY 928 00:26:36,295 --> 00:26:36,729 PEACEFUL. 929 00:26:36,729 --> 00:26:38,164 MY LIFE HAD NOT BEEN PEACEFUL 930 00:26:38,164 --> 00:26:39,465 FOR A WHILE, AND REALLY NEITHER 931 00:26:39,465 --> 00:26:45,237 HAD HIS. 932 00:26:45,237 --> 00:26:51,377 WE WERE EXTREMELY CLOSE FROM THE 933 00:26:51,377 --> 00:26:53,179 BEGINNING OF OUR ROMANTIC 934 00:26:53,179 --> 00:26:54,246 RELATIONSHIP. 935 00:26:54,246 --> 00:26:56,282 WE JUST -- WE WERE IN CONSTANT 936 00:26:56,282 --> 00:26:57,083 CONTACT. 937 00:26:57,083 --> 00:26:59,686 BUT WE'RE BOTH REALLY DIFFICULT 938 00:26:59,686 --> 00:27:01,654 PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH. 939 00:27:01,654 --> 00:27:03,756 [ CHUCKLES ] 940 00:27:03,756 --> 00:27:05,357 IN A VERY ALLY McBEAL 941 00:27:05,357 --> 00:27:07,526 DISCUSSION, HE CONFESSED HE HAD 942 00:27:07,526 --> 00:27:09,561 A THEME SONG, AND I MADE HIM 943 00:27:09,561 --> 00:27:11,563 PLAY IT FOR ME. 944 00:27:11,563 --> 00:27:14,166 IT WAS "EXTRAORDINARY MACHINE" 945 00:27:14,166 --> 00:27:15,501 BY FIONA APPLE. 946 00:27:15,501 --> 00:27:17,770 I THINK IT WAS JUST THAT SENSE 947 00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:20,172 OF KIND OF BEING A LITTLE BIT 948 00:27:20,172 --> 00:27:24,376 EMBATTLED THAT THE SONG HAS. 949 00:27:24,376 --> 00:27:26,145 AND IT ALSO HAD, LIKE, THIS 950 00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:27,313 HOPEFULNESS TO IT. 951 00:27:27,313 --> 00:27:28,580 * BY FOOT, IT'S A SLOW 952 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:29,515 CLIMB * 953 00:27:29,515 --> 00:27:31,583 * BUT I'M GOOD AT BEING 954 00:27:31,583 --> 00:27:32,584 UNCOMFORTABLE * 955 00:27:32,584 --> 00:27:35,387 * SO I CAN'T STOP CHANGING ALL 956 00:27:35,387 --> 00:27:36,155 THE TIME * 957 00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:38,390 IN MANY WAYS, AARON WAS 958 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:40,760 TREMENDOUSLY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT 959 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,593 LIFE. 960 00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:43,529 EVEN WHEN HE DIDN'T FEEL IT, HE 961 00:27:43,529 --> 00:27:45,464 COULD BE TREMENDOUSLY OPTIMISTIC 962 00:27:45,464 --> 00:27:46,332 ABOUT LIFE. 963 00:27:46,332 --> 00:27:52,471 * EXTRAORDINARY MACHINE 964 00:27:52,471 --> 00:27:54,273 WHAT ARE YOU DOING? 965 00:27:54,273 --> 00:27:58,644 FLICKR HAS VIDEO NOW. 966 00:27:58,644 --> 00:28:00,646 SWARTZ THREW HIS ENERGY INTO 967 00:28:00,646 --> 00:28:02,281 A STRING OF NEW PROJECTS 968 00:28:02,281 --> 00:28:03,783 INVOLVING ACCESS TO PUBLIC 969 00:28:03,783 --> 00:28:05,384 INFORMATION, INCLUDING AN 970 00:28:05,384 --> 00:28:07,253 ACCOUNTABILITY WEBSITE CALLED 971 00:28:07,253 --> 00:28:08,755 watchdog.net AND A PROJECT 972 00:28:08,755 --> 00:28:10,289 CALLED THE OPEN LIBRARY. 973 00:28:10,289 --> 00:28:12,124 THE OPEN LIBRARY PROJECT IS A 974 00:28:12,124 --> 00:28:13,459 WEBSITE YOU CAN VISIT AT 975 00:28:13,459 --> 00:28:15,327 openlibrary.org, AND THE IDEA IS 976 00:28:15,327 --> 00:28:17,096 TO BE A HUGE WIKI, AN EDITABLE 977 00:28:17,096 --> 00:28:18,731 WEBSITE WITH ONE PAGE PER BOOK. 978 00:28:18,731 --> 00:28:20,166 SO, FOR EVERY BOOK EVER 979 00:28:20,166 --> 00:28:21,834 PUBLISHED, WE WANT TO HAVE A WEB 980 00:28:21,834 --> 00:28:23,635 PAGE ABOUT IT THAT COMBINES ALL 981 00:28:23,635 --> 00:28:25,471 THE INFORMATION FROM PUBLISHERS, 982 00:28:25,471 --> 00:28:26,773 FROM BOOK SELLERS, FROM 983 00:28:26,773 --> 00:28:28,474 LIBRARIES, FROM READERS ON TO 984 00:28:28,474 --> 00:28:30,142 ONE SITE AND THEN GIVES YOU 985 00:28:30,142 --> 00:28:31,744 LINKS WHERE YOU CAN BUY IT, YOU 986 00:28:31,744 --> 00:28:33,579 CAN BORROW IT, OR YOU CAN BROWSE 987 00:28:33,579 --> 00:28:34,080 IT. 988 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:34,814 I LOVE LIBRARIES. 989 00:28:34,814 --> 00:28:36,482 YOU KNOW, I'M THE KIND OF PERSON 990 00:28:36,482 --> 00:28:37,750 WHO GOES TO A NEW CITY AND 991 00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:39,151 IMMEDIATELY SEEKS OUT THE 992 00:28:39,151 --> 00:28:39,618 LIBRARY. 993 00:28:39,618 --> 00:28:41,253 THAT'S THE DREAM OF OPEN LIBRARY 994 00:28:41,253 --> 00:28:42,654 IS BUILDING THIS WEBSITE WHERE 995 00:28:42,654 --> 00:28:44,590 BOTH YOU CAN LEAP FROM BOOK TO 996 00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:46,425 BOOK, FROM PERSON TO AUTHOR, 997 00:28:46,425 --> 00:28:48,494 FROM SUBJECT TO IDEA, GO THROUGH 998 00:28:48,494 --> 00:28:49,728 THIS VAST TREE OF KNOWLEDGE 999 00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:51,330 THAT'S BEEN IMBEDDED AND LOST IN 1000 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:52,631 BIG PHYSICAL LIBRARIES, THAT'S 1001 00:28:52,631 --> 00:28:54,100 HARD TO FIND, THAT'S NOT VERY 1002 00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:55,201 WELL-ACCESSIBLE ONLINE. 1003 00:28:55,201 --> 00:28:56,468 IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE 1004 00:28:56,468 --> 00:28:57,770 BOOKS ARE OUR CULTURAL LEGACY. 1005 00:28:57,770 --> 00:28:59,271 YOU KNOW, BOOKS ARE THE PLACE 1006 00:28:59,271 --> 00:29:00,672 PEOPLE GO TO WRITE THINGS DOWN. 1007 00:29:00,672 --> 00:29:02,174 AND TO HAVE ALL THAT SWALLOWED 1008 00:29:02,174 --> 00:29:04,877 UP BY ONE CORPORATION IS KIND OF 1009 00:29:04,877 --> 00:29:05,577 SCARY. 1010 00:29:05,577 --> 00:29:07,646 HOW CAN YOU BRING PUBLIC 1011 00:29:07,646 --> 00:29:10,349 ACCESS TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN? 1012 00:29:10,349 --> 00:29:12,118 IT MAY SOUND OBVIOUS THAT YOU'D 1013 00:29:12,118 --> 00:29:13,585 HAVE PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC 1014 00:29:13,585 --> 00:29:15,287 DOMAIN, BUT THE FACT IT'S NOT 1015 00:29:15,287 --> 00:29:15,687 TRUE. 1016 00:29:15,687 --> 00:29:17,589 SO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN SHOULD BE 1017 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,358 FREE TO ALL, BUT IT'S OFTEN 1018 00:29:19,358 --> 00:29:20,592 LOCKED UP. 1019 00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:22,361 IT IS OFTEN, YOU KNOW, GUARD 1020 00:29:22,361 --> 00:29:22,829 CAGES. 1021 00:29:22,829 --> 00:29:24,730 IT'S LIKE HAVING A NATIONAL PARK 1022 00:29:24,730 --> 00:29:26,498 BUT WITH A MOAT AROUND IT AND 1023 00:29:26,498 --> 00:29:28,334 GUN TURRETS POINTED OUT IN CASE 1024 00:29:28,334 --> 00:29:30,202 SOMEBODY MIGHT WANT TO ACTUALLY 1025 00:29:30,202 --> 00:29:31,603 COME AND ENJOY THE PUBLIC 1026 00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:32,304 DOMAIN. 1027 00:29:32,304 --> 00:29:33,806 ONE OF THE THINGS AARON WAS 1028 00:29:33,806 --> 00:29:35,574 PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN IS 1029 00:29:35,574 --> 00:29:37,376 BRINGING PUBLIC ACCESS TO THE 1030 00:29:37,376 --> 00:29:38,344 PUBLIC DOMAIN. 1031 00:29:38,344 --> 00:29:40,246 IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GOT 1032 00:29:40,246 --> 00:29:45,251 HIM INTO SO MUCH TROUBLE. 1033 00:29:45,251 --> 00:29:47,786 I HAD BEEN TRYING TO GET 1034 00:29:47,786 --> 00:29:50,789 ACCESS TO FEDERAL COURT RECORDS 1035 00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:53,459 IN THE UNITED STATES. 1036 00:29:53,459 --> 00:29:55,895 WHAT I DISCOVERED WAS A PUZZLING 1037 00:29:55,895 --> 00:29:57,964 SYSTEM CALLED PACER, WHICH 1038 00:29:57,964 --> 00:30:00,366 STANDS FOR "PUBLIC ACCESS TO 1039 00:30:00,366 --> 00:30:02,401 COURT ELECTRONIC RECORDS." 1040 00:30:02,401 --> 00:30:04,703 I STARTED GOOGLING, AND THAT'S 1041 00:30:04,703 --> 00:30:08,174 WHEN I RAN ACROSS CARL MALAMUD. 1042 00:30:08,174 --> 00:30:09,909 ACCESS TO LEGAL MATERIALS IN 1043 00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:11,477 THE UNITED STATES IS A 1044 00:30:11,477 --> 00:30:14,546 $10 BILLION-PER-YEAR BUSINESS. 1045 00:30:14,546 --> 00:30:16,715 PACER IS JUST THIS INCREDIBLE 1046 00:30:16,715 --> 00:30:18,717 ABOMINATION OF GOVERNMENT 1047 00:30:18,717 --> 00:30:19,585 SERVICE. 1048 00:30:19,585 --> 00:30:21,320 IT'S 10 CENTS A PAGE. 1049 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:22,922 IT'S THIS MOST BRAIN-DEAD CODE 1050 00:30:22,922 --> 00:30:24,223 YOU'VE EVER SEEN. 1051 00:30:24,223 --> 00:30:25,424 YOU CAN'T SEARCH IT. 1052 00:30:25,424 --> 00:30:26,959 YOU CAN'T BOOKMARK ANYTHING. 1053 00:30:26,959 --> 00:30:28,794 YOU GOT TO HAVE A CREDIT CARD. 1054 00:30:28,794 --> 00:30:30,629 AND THESE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS. 1055 00:30:30,629 --> 00:30:32,498 YOU KNOW, U.S. DISTRICT COURTS 1056 00:30:32,498 --> 00:30:33,699 ARE VERY IMPORTANT. 1057 00:30:33,699 --> 00:30:35,634 IT'S WHERE A LOT OF OUR SEMINAL 1058 00:30:35,634 --> 00:30:36,768 LITIGATION STARTS. 1059 00:30:36,768 --> 00:30:38,604 YOU KNOW, CIVIL-RIGHTS CASES, 1060 00:30:38,604 --> 00:30:40,306 PATENT CASES, ALL SORTS OF 1061 00:30:40,306 --> 00:30:40,772 STUFF. 1062 00:30:40,772 --> 00:30:42,708 AND JOURNALISTS AND STUDENTS AND 1063 00:30:42,708 --> 00:30:44,476 CITIZENS AND LAWYERS ALL NEED 1064 00:30:44,476 --> 00:30:46,345 ACCESS TO PACER, AND IT FIGHTS 1065 00:30:46,345 --> 00:30:47,846 THEM EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. 1066 00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:49,848 PEOPLE WITHOUT MEANS CAN'T SEE 1067 00:30:49,848 --> 00:30:51,783 THE LAW AS READILY AS PEOPLE 1068 00:30:51,783 --> 00:30:53,252 THAT HAVE THAT GOLD 1069 00:30:53,252 --> 00:30:54,720 AMERICAN EXPRESS CARD. 1070 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,622 IT'S A POLL TAX ON ACCESS TO 1071 00:30:56,622 --> 00:30:57,689 JUSTICE. 1072 00:30:57,689 --> 00:30:59,625 YOU KNOW, THE LAW IS THE 1073 00:30:59,625 --> 00:31:01,460 OPERATING SYSTEM OF OUR 1074 00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:03,529 DEMOCRACY, AND YOU HAVE TO PAY 1075 00:31:03,529 --> 00:31:04,463 TO SEE IT? 1076 00:31:04,463 --> 00:31:05,764 YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT MUCH OF A 1077 00:31:05,764 --> 00:31:06,832 DEMOCRACY. 1078 00:31:06,832 --> 00:31:09,001 THEY MAKE ABOUT $120 MILLION 1079 00:31:09,001 --> 00:31:11,337 A YEAR ON THE PACER SYSTEM, AND 1080 00:31:11,337 --> 00:31:13,405 IT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING NEAR 1081 00:31:13,405 --> 00:31:15,407 THAT, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN 1082 00:31:15,407 --> 00:31:16,242 RECORDS. 1083 00:31:16,242 --> 00:31:18,410 IN FACT, IT'S ILLEGAL. 1084 00:31:18,410 --> 00:31:20,546 THE E-GOVERNMENT ACT OF 2002 1085 00:31:20,546 --> 00:31:22,581 STATES THAT THE COURTS MAY 1086 00:31:22,581 --> 00:31:24,583 CHARGE ONLY TO THE EXTENT 1087 00:31:24,583 --> 00:31:26,885 NECESSARY IN ORDER TO REIMBURSE 1088 00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:33,792 THE COSTS OF RUNNING PACER. 1089 00:31:33,792 --> 00:31:35,361 AS THE FOUNDER OF 1090 00:31:35,361 --> 00:31:37,696 public.resource.org, MALAMUD 1091 00:31:37,696 --> 00:31:39,365 WANTED TO PROTEST THE PACER 1092 00:31:39,365 --> 00:31:39,865 CHARGES. 1093 00:31:39,865 --> 00:31:41,533 HE STARTED A PROGRAM CALLED 1094 00:31:41,533 --> 00:31:43,035 THE PACER RECYCLING PROJECT, 1095 00:31:43,035 --> 00:31:44,836 WHERE PEOPLE COULD UPLOAD PACER 1096 00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:46,638 DOCUMENTS THEY HAD ALREADY PAID 1097 00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:48,507 FOR TO A FREE DATABASE SO OTHERS 1098 00:31:48,507 --> 00:31:49,508 COULD USE THEM. 1099 00:31:49,508 --> 00:31:51,377 THE PACER PEOPLE WERE GETTING 1100 00:31:51,377 --> 00:31:52,979 A LOT OF FLAK FROM CONGRESS AND 1101 00:31:52,979 --> 00:31:54,646 OTHERS ABOUT PUBLIC ACCESS. 1102 00:31:54,646 --> 00:31:56,515 AND SO, THEY PUT TOGETHER THIS 1103 00:31:56,515 --> 00:31:57,016 SYSTEM. 1104 00:31:57,016 --> 00:31:58,684 IN 17 LIBRARIES ACROSS THE 1105 00:31:58,684 --> 00:32:00,586 COUNTRY, THERE WAS FREE PACER 1106 00:32:00,586 --> 00:32:01,087 ACCESS. 1107 00:32:01,087 --> 00:32:02,854 YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE LIBRARY 1108 00:32:02,854 --> 00:32:04,623 EVERY 22,000 SQUARE MILES, I 1109 00:32:04,623 --> 00:32:06,325 BELIEVE, SO IT WASN'T, LIKE, 1110 00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:07,493 REALLY CONVENIENT. 1111 00:32:07,493 --> 00:32:09,461 I ENCOURAGE VOLUNTEERS TO JOIN A 1112 00:32:09,461 --> 00:32:11,330 SO-CALLED THUMB DRIVE CORPS AND 1113 00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:12,631 DOWNLOAD DOCS FROM THE 1114 00:32:12,631 --> 00:32:14,500 PUBLIC-ACCESS LIBRARIES, UPLOAD 1115 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,035 THEM TO THE PACER RECYCLING 1116 00:32:16,035 --> 00:32:16,635 SITE. 1117 00:32:16,635 --> 00:32:17,970 PEOPLE TAKE A THUMB DRIVE INTO 1118 00:32:17,970 --> 00:32:19,538 ONE OF THESE LIBRARIES AND THEY 1119 00:32:19,538 --> 00:32:20,839 DOWNLOAD A BUNCH OF DOCUMENTS 1120 00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:22,041 AND THEY SEND THEM TO ME. 1121 00:32:22,041 --> 00:32:23,875 AND, I MEAN, IT WAS JUST A JOKE. 1122 00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:25,511 IN FACT, WHEN YOU CLICKED ON 1123 00:32:25,511 --> 00:32:27,079 THUMB DRIVE CORPS, THERE WAS A 1124 00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:28,780 "WIZARD OF OZ," YOU KNOW, THE 1125 00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:29,848 MUNCHKINS SINGING. 1126 00:32:29,848 --> 00:32:31,483 SO, THE VIDEO CLIP CAME UP. 1127 00:32:31,483 --> 00:32:34,320 * WE REPRESENT THE LOLLIPOP 1128 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:34,820 GUILD * 1129 00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:36,655 BUT, OF COURSE, I GET THIS 1130 00:32:36,655 --> 00:32:38,524 PHONE CALL FROM STEVE SHULTZE 1131 00:32:38,524 --> 00:32:40,326 AND AARON SAYING, "GEE, WE'D 1132 00:32:40,326 --> 00:32:41,427 LIKE TO JOIN THE 1133 00:32:41,427 --> 00:32:42,661 THUMB DRIVE CORPS." 1134 00:32:42,661 --> 00:32:44,563 AROUND THAT TIME, I RAN INTO 1135 00:32:44,563 --> 00:32:45,897 AARON AT A CONFERENCE. 1136 00:32:45,897 --> 00:32:47,833 THIS IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY 1137 00:32:47,833 --> 00:32:49,501 HAS TO BE A COLLABORATION 1138 00:32:49,501 --> 00:32:51,003 BETWEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT 1139 00:32:51,003 --> 00:32:51,703 PEOPLE. 1140 00:32:51,703 --> 00:32:53,539 SO, I APPROACHED HIM, AND I 1141 00:32:53,539 --> 00:32:55,407 SAID, "HEY, I'M THINKING ABOUT 1142 00:32:55,407 --> 00:32:56,975 AN INTERVENTION ON THE PACER 1143 00:32:56,975 --> 00:32:59,378 PROBLEM." 1144 00:32:59,378 --> 00:33:01,113 SHULTZE HAD ALREADY DEVELOPED 1145 00:33:01,113 --> 00:33:02,481 A PROGRAM THAT COULD 1146 00:33:02,481 --> 00:33:03,982 AUTOMATICALLY DOWNLOAD PACER 1147 00:33:03,982 --> 00:33:05,451 DOCUMENTS FROM THE TRIAL 1148 00:33:05,451 --> 00:33:06,052 LIBRARIES. 1149 00:33:06,052 --> 00:33:08,387 SWARTZ WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK. 1150 00:33:08,387 --> 00:33:10,522 SO, I SHOWED HIM THE CODE, 1151 00:33:10,522 --> 00:33:12,591 AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WOULD 1152 00:33:12,591 --> 00:33:14,860 COME NEXT, BUT AS IT TURNS OUT, 1153 00:33:14,860 --> 00:33:16,928 OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW 1154 00:33:16,928 --> 00:33:19,031 HOURS AT THAT CONFERENCE, HE WAS 1155 00:33:19,031 --> 00:33:20,732 OFF SITTING IN A CORNER 1156 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:22,801 IMPROVING MY CODE, RECRUITING A 1157 00:33:22,801 --> 00:33:24,770 FRIEND OF HIS THAT LIVED NEAR 1158 00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:27,039 ONE OF THESE LIBRARIES TO GO 1159 00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:29,708 INTO THE LIBRARY AND TO BEGIN TO 1160 00:33:29,708 --> 00:33:32,411 TEST HIS IMPROVED CODE, AT WHICH 1161 00:33:32,411 --> 00:33:34,413 POINT THE FOLKS AT THE COURTS 1162 00:33:34,413 --> 00:33:36,415 REALIZED SOMETHING'S NOT GOING 1163 00:33:36,415 --> 00:33:37,983 QUITE ACCORDING TO PLAN. 1164 00:33:37,983 --> 00:33:40,052 AND DATA STARTED TO COME IN 1165 00:33:40,052 --> 00:33:42,020 AND COME IN AND COME IN, AND 1166 00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:44,156 SOON THERE WERE 760 GIGABYTES OF 1167 00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:46,425 PACER DOCS -- ABOUT 20 MILLION 1168 00:33:46,425 --> 00:33:48,026 PAGES. 1169 00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:50,028 USING INFORMATION RETRIEVED 1170 00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:52,131 FROM THE TRIAL LIBRARIES, SWARTZ 1171 00:33:52,131 --> 00:33:54,200 WAS CONDUCTING MASSIVE AUTOMATED 1172 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,068 PARALLEL DOWNLOADING OF THE 1173 00:33:56,068 --> 00:33:57,103 PACER SYSTEM. 1174 00:33:57,103 --> 00:33:59,037 HE WAS ABLE TO ACQUIRE NEARLY 1175 00:33:59,037 --> 00:34:00,872 2.7 MILLION FEDERAL COURT 1176 00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:02,841 DOCUMENTS -- ALMOST 20 MILLION 1177 00:34:02,841 --> 00:34:03,909 PAGES OF TEXT. 1178 00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:05,611 NOW, I'LL GRANT YOU THAT 1179 00:34:05,611 --> 00:34:07,413 20 MILLION PAGES HAD PERHAPS 1180 00:34:07,413 --> 00:34:09,181 EXCEEDED THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE 1181 00:34:09,181 --> 00:34:11,117 PEOPLE RUNNING THE PILOT ACCESS 1182 00:34:11,117 --> 00:34:12,784 PROJECT, BUT SURPRISING A 1183 00:34:12,784 --> 00:34:14,453 BUREAUCRAT ISN'T ILLEGAL. 1184 00:34:14,453 --> 00:34:16,155 AARON AND CARL DECIDED TO GO 1185 00:34:16,155 --> 00:34:18,124 TALK TO THE NEW YORK TIMES ABOUT 1186 00:34:18,124 --> 00:34:19,125 WHAT HAPPENED. 1187 00:34:19,125 --> 00:34:20,792 THEY ALSO CAUGHT THE 1188 00:34:20,792 --> 00:34:22,828 ATTENTION OF THE FBI, WHO BEGAN 1189 00:34:22,828 --> 00:34:24,796 TO STAKE OUT SWARTZ'S PARENTS' 1190 00:34:24,796 --> 00:34:26,031 HOUSE IN ILLINOIS. 1191 00:34:26,031 --> 00:34:27,966 BUT I GET A TWEET FROM HIS 1192 00:34:27,966 --> 00:34:30,836 MOTHER SAYING, "CALL ME!" 1193 00:34:30,836 --> 00:34:32,204 SO I'M LIKE, "WHAT THE HELL'S 1194 00:34:32,204 --> 00:34:33,105 GOING ON HERE?" 1195 00:34:33,105 --> 00:34:34,706 AND SO, I FINALLY GOT AHOLD OF 1196 00:34:34,706 --> 00:34:36,074 AARON, AND, YOU KNOW, AARON'S 1197 00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:37,609 MOTHER WAS LIKE, "OH, MY GOD, 1198 00:34:37,609 --> 00:34:39,478 FBI, FBI, FBI." 1199 00:34:39,478 --> 00:34:41,847 AN FBI AGENT DRIVES DOWN OUR 1200 00:34:41,847 --> 00:34:44,516 HOME'S DRIVEWAY TRYING TO SEE IF 1201 00:34:44,516 --> 00:34:46,718 AARON IS, LIKE, IN HIS ROOM. 1202 00:34:46,718 --> 00:34:48,187 AND I REMEMBER BEING HOME THAT 1203 00:34:48,187 --> 00:34:49,855 DAY AND WONDERING WHY THIS CAR 1204 00:34:49,855 --> 00:34:51,457 WAS DRIVING DOWN OUR DRIVEWAY 1205 00:34:51,457 --> 00:34:52,791 AND JUST DRIVING BACK OUT. 1206 00:34:52,791 --> 00:34:55,861 LIKE, "THAT'S WEIRD." 1207 00:34:55,861 --> 00:34:57,763 LIKE, FIVE YEARS LATER, I GET 1208 00:34:57,763 --> 00:34:59,631 THIS FBI FILE, AND I'M LIKE, 1209 00:34:59,631 --> 00:35:00,866 "OH, MY GOODNESS. 1210 00:35:00,866 --> 00:35:03,702 THAT WAS THE FBI AGENT IN MY 1211 00:35:03,702 --> 00:35:04,903 DRIVEWAY." 1212 00:35:04,903 --> 00:35:06,572 HE WAS TERRIFIED. 1213 00:35:06,572 --> 00:35:09,007 HE WAS TOTALLY TERRIFIED. 1214 00:35:09,007 --> 00:35:10,976 HE WAS WAY MORE TERRIFIED AFTER 1215 00:35:10,976 --> 00:35:12,911 THE FBI ACTUALLY CALLED HIM UP 1216 00:35:12,911 --> 00:35:14,946 ON THE PHONE AND TRIED TO SUCKER 1217 00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:17,015 HIM INTO COMING DOWN TO A COFFEE 1218 00:35:17,015 --> 00:35:18,584 SHOP WITHOUT A LAWYER. 1219 00:35:18,584 --> 00:35:20,519 HE SAID HE WENT HOME AND LAID 1220 00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:22,254 DOWN ON THE BED AND, YOU KNOW, 1221 00:35:22,254 --> 00:35:24,823 WAS SHAKING. 1222 00:35:24,823 --> 00:35:26,158 THE DOWNLOADING ALSO 1223 00:35:26,158 --> 00:35:27,826 UNCOVERED MASSIVE PRIVACY 1224 00:35:27,826 --> 00:35:29,161 VIOLATIONS IN THE COURT 1225 00:35:29,161 --> 00:35:29,995 DOCUMENTS. 1226 00:35:29,995 --> 00:35:31,697 ULTIMATELY, THE COURTS WERE 1227 00:35:31,697 --> 00:35:33,565 FORCED TO CHANGE THEIR POLICIES 1228 00:35:33,565 --> 00:35:34,266 AS A RESULT. 1229 00:35:34,266 --> 00:35:36,101 AND THE FBI CLOSED THEIR 1230 00:35:36,101 --> 00:35:38,237 INVESTIGATION WITHOUT BRINGING 1231 00:35:38,237 --> 00:35:39,070 CHARGES. 1232 00:35:39,070 --> 00:35:40,972 TO THIS DAY, I FIND IT 1233 00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:43,141 REMARKABLE THAT ANYBODY EVEN AT 1234 00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:45,143 THE MOST REMOTE PODUNK FIELD 1235 00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:47,112 OFFICE OF THE FBI THOUGHT THAT A 1236 00:35:47,112 --> 00:35:49,080 FITTING USE FOR TAXPAYER DOLLARS 1237 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,882 WAS INVESTIGATING PEOPLE FOR 1238 00:35:50,882 --> 00:35:52,751 CRIMINAL THEFT ON THE GROUNDS 1239 00:35:52,751 --> 00:35:54,253 THAT THEY HAD MADE THE LAW 1240 00:35:54,253 --> 00:35:54,953 PUBLIC. 1241 00:35:54,953 --> 00:35:56,722 HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A 1242 00:35:56,722 --> 00:35:58,257 LAWMAN AND THINK THAT THERE 1243 00:35:58,257 --> 00:36:00,259 COULD POSSIBLY BE ANYTHING WRONG 1244 00:36:00,259 --> 00:36:02,194 IN THIS WHOLE WORLD WITH MAKING 1245 00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:03,229 THE LAW PUBLIC? 1246 00:36:03,229 --> 00:36:05,197 AARON WAS WILLING TO PUT 1247 00:36:05,197 --> 00:36:07,233 HIMSELF AT RISK FOR THE CAUSES 1248 00:36:07,233 --> 00:36:08,867 THAT HE BELIEVED IN. 1249 00:36:08,867 --> 00:36:10,736 BOTHERED BY WEALTH DISPARITY, 1250 00:36:10,736 --> 00:36:12,571 SWARTZ MOVES BEYOND TECHNOLOGY 1251 00:36:12,571 --> 00:36:14,039 AND INTO A BROADER RANGE OF 1252 00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:15,807 POLITICAL CAUSES. 1253 00:36:15,807 --> 00:36:17,643 I WENT INTO CONGRESS, AND I 1254 00:36:17,643 --> 00:36:19,311 INVITED HIM TO COME AND HANG OUT 1255 00:36:19,311 --> 00:36:21,247 AND INTERN FOR US FOR A WHILE SO 1256 00:36:21,247 --> 00:36:23,081 THAT HE COULD LEARN, YOU KNOW, 1257 00:36:23,081 --> 00:36:24,850 THE POLITICAL PROCESS. 1258 00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:26,652 HE WAS SORT OF LEARNING A NEW 1259 00:36:26,652 --> 00:36:28,320 COMMUNITY, A NEW SET OF SKILLS 1260 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,088 AND KIND OF LEARNING TO HACK 1261 00:36:30,088 --> 00:36:30,856 POLITICS. 1262 00:36:30,856 --> 00:36:32,591 IT SEEMS RIDICULOUS THAT 1263 00:36:32,591 --> 00:36:33,792 MINERS SHOULD HAVE TO HAMMER 1264 00:36:33,792 --> 00:36:35,060 AWAY UNTIL THEIR WHOLE BODIES 1265 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:36,328 ARE DRIPPING WITH SWEAT, FACED 1266 00:36:36,328 --> 00:36:37,796 WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT IF THEY 1267 00:36:37,796 --> 00:36:39,130 DARE TO STOP, THEY WON'T BE ABLE 1268 00:36:39,130 --> 00:36:40,366 TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE THAT 1269 00:36:40,366 --> 00:36:41,900 NIGHT WHILE I GET TO MAKE LARGER 1270 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:43,201 AND LARGER AMOUNTS OF MONEY EACH 1271 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:44,736 DAY JUST BY SITTING AND WATCHING 1272 00:36:44,736 --> 00:36:46,171 TV. 1273 00:36:46,171 --> 00:36:48,073 BUT APPARENTLY THE WORLD IS 1274 00:36:48,073 --> 00:36:49,040 RIDICULOUS. 1275 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,609 SO, I CO-FOUNDED A GROUP CALLED 1276 00:36:50,609 --> 00:36:51,943 THE PROGRESSIVE CHANGE CAMPAIGN 1277 00:36:51,943 --> 00:36:53,279 COMMITTEE, AND WHAT WE TRY AND 1278 00:36:53,279 --> 00:36:54,813 DO IS WE TRY AND ORGANIZE PEOPLE 1279 00:36:54,813 --> 00:36:56,214 OVER THE INTERNET WHO CARE ABOUT 1280 00:36:56,214 --> 00:36:57,749 PROGRESSIVE POLITICS AND MOVING 1281 00:36:57,749 --> 00:36:58,784 THE COUNTRY IN A MORE 1282 00:36:58,784 --> 00:37:00,252 PROGRESSIVE DIRECTION TO KIND OF 1283 00:37:00,252 --> 00:37:01,753 COME TOGETHER, JOIN OUR E-MAIL 1284 00:37:01,753 --> 00:37:03,054 LIST, JOIN OUR CAMPAIGNS, AND 1285 00:37:03,054 --> 00:37:04,390 HELP GET PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES 1286 00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:05,891 ELECTED ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. 1287 00:37:05,891 --> 00:37:07,659 THE GROUP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 1288 00:37:07,659 --> 00:37:09,194 IGNITING THE GRASSROOTS EFFORT 1289 00:37:09,194 --> 00:37:10,862 BEHIND THE CAMPAIGN TO ELECT 1290 00:37:10,862 --> 00:37:12,398 ELIZABETH WARREN TO THE SENATE. 1291 00:37:12,398 --> 00:37:14,165 HE MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT IT WAS 1292 00:37:14,165 --> 00:37:15,834 A DUMB SYSTEM, BUT HE CAME IN 1293 00:37:15,834 --> 00:37:17,336 AND HE SAID, "I NEED TO LEARN 1294 00:37:17,336 --> 00:37:19,004 THIS SYSTEM, 'CAUSE IT CAN BE 1295 00:37:19,004 --> 00:37:20,406 MANIPULATED LIKE ANY SOCIAL 1296 00:37:20,406 --> 00:37:21,106 SYSTEM." 1297 00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:22,941 BUT HIS PASSION FOR KNOWLEDGE 1298 00:37:22,941 --> 00:37:24,743 IN LIBRARIES DIDN'T TAKE A BACK 1299 00:37:24,743 --> 00:37:25,110 SEAT. 1300 00:37:25,110 --> 00:37:26,812 AARON BEGAN TO TAKE A CLOSER 1301 00:37:26,812 --> 00:37:28,113 LOOK AT INSTITUTIONS THAT 1302 00:37:28,113 --> 00:37:29,648 PUBLISH ACADEMIC-JOURNAL 1303 00:37:29,648 --> 00:37:30,816 ARTICLES. 1304 00:37:30,816 --> 00:37:32,351 BY VIRTUE OF BEING STUDENTS 1305 00:37:32,351 --> 00:37:34,019 AT A MAJOR U.S. UNIVERSITY, I 1306 00:37:34,019 --> 00:37:35,854 ASSUME THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A 1307 00:37:35,854 --> 00:37:37,188 WIDE VARIETY OF SCHOLARLY 1308 00:37:37,188 --> 00:37:37,923 JOURNALS. 1309 00:37:37,923 --> 00:37:39,157 PRETTY MUCH EVERY MAJOR 1310 00:37:39,157 --> 00:37:40,926 UNIVERSITY IN THE UNITED STATES 1311 00:37:40,926 --> 00:37:42,428 PAYS THESE SORT OF LICENSING 1312 00:37:42,428 --> 00:37:44,229 FEES TO ORGANIZATIONS LIKE JSTOR 1313 00:37:44,229 --> 00:37:46,398 AND THOMSON ISI TO GET ACCESS TO 1314 00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:48,767 SCHOLARLY JOURNALS THAT THE REST 1315 00:37:48,767 --> 00:37:50,268 OF THE WORLD CAN'T READ. 1316 00:37:50,702 --> 00:37:52,704 THESE SCHOLARLY JOURNALS AND 1317 00:37:52,704 --> 00:37:54,406 ARTICLES ARE ESSENTIALLY THE 1318 00:37:54,406 --> 00:37:56,442 ENTIRE WEALTH OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE 1319 00:37:56,442 --> 00:37:58,677 ONLINE, AND MANY HAVE BEEN PAID 1320 00:37:58,677 --> 00:38:00,746 FOR WITH TAXPAYER MONEY OR WITH 1321 00:38:00,746 --> 00:38:01,980 GOVERNMENT GRANTS. 1322 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,915 BUT TO READ THEM, YOU OFTEN HAVE 1323 00:38:03,915 --> 00:38:05,817 TO PAY AGAIN, HANDING OVER STEEP 1324 00:38:05,817 --> 00:38:07,218 FEES TO PUBLISHERS LIKE 1325 00:38:07,218 --> 00:38:08,219 REED ELSEVIER. 1326 00:38:08,219 --> 00:38:09,955 THESE LICENSING FEES ARE SO 1327 00:38:09,955 --> 00:38:11,723 SUBSTANTIAL THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE 1328 00:38:11,723 --> 00:38:13,158 STUDYING IN INDIA INSTEAD OF 1329 00:38:13,158 --> 00:38:14,893 STUDYING IN THE UNITED STATES 1330 00:38:14,893 --> 00:38:16,428 DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF ACCESS. 1331 00:38:16,428 --> 00:38:18,163 THEY'RE LOCKED OUT FROM ALL OF 1332 00:38:18,163 --> 00:38:19,130 THESE JOURNALS. 1333 00:38:19,130 --> 00:38:20,732 THEY'RE LOCKED OUT FROM OUR 1334 00:38:20,732 --> 00:38:22,067 ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC LEGACY. 1335 00:38:22,067 --> 00:38:23,802 I MEAN, A LOT OF THESE JOURNAL 1336 00:38:23,802 --> 00:38:25,303 ARTICLES, THEY GO BACK TO THE 1337 00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:26,237 ENLIGHTENMENT. 1338 00:38:26,237 --> 00:38:27,906 EVERY TIME SOMEONE HAS WRITTEN 1339 00:38:27,906 --> 00:38:29,341 DOWN A SCIENTIFIC PAPER, IT'S 1340 00:38:29,341 --> 00:38:31,109 BEEN SCANNED, DIGITIZED, AND PUT 1341 00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:32,243 IN THESE COLLECTIONS. 1342 00:38:32,243 --> 00:38:34,045 THAT IS A LEGACY THAT HAS BEEN 1343 00:38:34,045 --> 00:38:35,914 BROUGHT TO US BY THE HISTORY OF 1344 00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:37,683 PEOPLE DOING INTERESTING WORK, 1345 00:38:37,683 --> 00:38:39,117 THE HISTORY OF SCIENTISTS. 1346 00:38:39,117 --> 00:38:41,019 IT'S A LEGACY THAT SHOULD BELONG 1347 00:38:41,019 --> 00:38:42,888 TO US AS A COMMONS, AS A PEOPLE. 1348 00:38:42,888 --> 00:38:44,790 BUT INSTEAD, IT'S BEEN LOCKED UP 1349 00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:46,392 AND PUT ONLINE BY A HANDFUL OF 1350 00:38:46,392 --> 00:38:48,326 FOR-PROFIT CORPORATIONS WHO THEN 1351 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:50,128 TRY AND GET THE MAXIMUM PROFIT 1352 00:38:50,128 --> 00:38:52,364 THEY CAN OUT OF IT. 1353 00:38:52,798 --> 00:38:55,066 SO, A RESEARCHER PAID BY 1354 00:38:55,066 --> 00:38:57,168 UNIVERSITY OR THE PEOPLE 1355 00:38:57,168 --> 00:38:58,770 PUBLISHES A PAPER, AND IN THE 1356 00:38:58,770 --> 00:39:00,105 VERY, VERY LAST STEP OF THAT 1357 00:39:00,105 --> 00:39:01,807 PROCESS, AFTER ALL THE WORK IS 1358 00:39:01,807 --> 00:39:03,241 DONE -- AFTER ALL THE ORIGINAL 1359 00:39:03,241 --> 00:39:04,876 RESEARCH IS DONE, THE THINKING, 1360 00:39:04,876 --> 00:39:06,211 THE LAB WORK, THE ANALYSIS -- 1361 00:39:06,211 --> 00:39:07,913 AFTER EVERYTHING IS DONE AT THAT 1362 00:39:07,913 --> 00:39:09,347 LAST STAGE, THEN THE RESEARCHER 1363 00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:10,849 HAS TO HAND OVER HIS OR HER 1364 00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:11,817 COPYRIGHT TO THIS 1365 00:39:11,817 --> 00:39:13,351 MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR COMPANY. 1366 00:39:13,351 --> 00:39:14,319 AND IT'S SICK. 1367 00:39:14,319 --> 00:39:16,154 IT'S AN ENTIRE ECONOMY BUILT ON 1368 00:39:16,154 --> 00:39:17,923 VOLUNTEER LABOR, AND THEN THE 1369 00:39:17,923 --> 00:39:19,758 PUBLISHERS SIT AT THE VERY TOP 1370 00:39:19,758 --> 00:39:21,192 AND SCRAPE OFF THE CREAM. 1371 00:39:21,192 --> 00:39:23,462 TALK ABOUT A SCAM. 1372 00:39:23,462 --> 00:39:26,432 ONE PUBLISHER IN BRITAIN MADE A 1373 00:39:26,432 --> 00:39:28,834 PROFIT OF $3 BILLION LAST YEAR. 1374 00:39:28,834 --> 00:39:30,235 I MEAN, WHAT A RACKET. 1375 00:39:30,235 --> 00:39:32,137 JSTOR IS JUST A VERY, VERY 1376 00:39:32,137 --> 00:39:34,105 SMALL PLAYER IN THAT STORY, BUT 1377 00:39:34,105 --> 00:39:36,007 FOR SOME REASON, JSTOR IS THE 1378 00:39:36,007 --> 00:39:37,876 PLAYER THAT AARON DECIDED TO 1379 00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:40,912 CONFRONT. 1380 00:39:40,912 --> 00:39:42,380 HE'D GONE TO SOME CONFERENCE 1381 00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:43,915 AROUND OPEN ACCESS AND OPEN 1382 00:39:43,915 --> 00:39:45,417 PUBLISHING, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO 1383 00:39:45,417 --> 00:39:47,118 THE PERSON FROM JSTOR WAS, BUT I 1384 00:39:47,118 --> 00:39:48,854 THINK AT SOME POINT, AARON ASKED 1385 00:39:48,854 --> 00:39:50,221 THE QUESTION LIKE, "HOW MUCH 1386 00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:51,857 WOULD IT COST TO OPEN UP JSTOR 1387 00:39:51,857 --> 00:39:53,892 IN PERPETUITY? 1388 00:39:53,892 --> 00:39:55,561 AND THEY GAVE SOME -- I THINK IT 1389 00:39:55,561 --> 00:39:57,362 WAS $200 MILLION, SOMETHING THAT 1390 00:39:57,362 --> 00:39:58,930 AARON THOUGHT WAS TOTALLY 1391 00:39:58,930 --> 00:40:00,566 RIDICULOUS. 1392 00:40:00,566 --> 00:40:02,501 WORKING ON A FELLOWSHIP AT 1393 00:40:02,501 --> 00:40:04,503 HARVARD, HE KNEW USERS ON MIT's 1394 00:40:04,503 --> 00:40:06,538 FAMOUSLY OPEN AND FAST NETWORK, 1395 00:40:06,538 --> 00:40:08,540 NEXTDOOR, HAD AUTHORIZED ACCESS 1396 00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:10,208 TO THE RICHES OF JSTOR. 1397 00:40:10,208 --> 00:40:12,010 SWARTZ SAW AN OPPORTUNITY. 1398 00:40:12,010 --> 00:40:13,845 YOU HAVE A KEY TO THOSE 1399 00:40:13,845 --> 00:40:14,379 GATES. 1400 00:40:14,379 --> 00:40:16,147 AND WITH A LITTLE BIT OF 1401 00:40:16,147 --> 00:40:18,216 SHELL-SCRIPT MAGIC, YOU CAN GET 1402 00:40:18,216 --> 00:40:20,318 THOSE JOURNAL ARTICLES. 1403 00:40:20,318 --> 00:40:23,154 ON SEPTEMBER 24, 2010, SWARTZ 1404 00:40:23,154 --> 00:40:25,791 REGISTERED A NEWLY PURCHASED 1405 00:40:25,791 --> 00:40:28,326 ACER LAPTOP ON THE MIT NETWORK 1406 00:40:28,326 --> 00:40:30,562 UNDER THE NAME GARY HOST. 1407 00:40:30,562 --> 00:40:32,397 THE CLIENT NAME WAS REGISTERED 1408 00:40:32,397 --> 00:40:34,900 AS GHOST LAPTOP. 1409 00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:36,568 HE DOESN'T HACK JSTOR IN THE 1410 00:40:36,568 --> 00:40:38,369 TRADITIONAL SENSE OF HACKING. 1411 00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:39,337 THE JSTOR DATABASE WAS 1412 00:40:39,337 --> 00:40:40,572 ORGANIZED, SO IT WAS COMPLETELY 1413 00:40:40,572 --> 00:40:41,940 TRIVIAL TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU 1414 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:43,141 COULD DOWNLOAD ALL THE ARTICLES 1415 00:40:43,141 --> 00:40:44,142 ON JSTOR, 'CAUSE IT WAS 1416 00:40:44,142 --> 00:40:45,043 BASICALLY NUMBERED. 1417 00:40:45,043 --> 00:40:46,144 IT WAS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, 1418 00:40:46,144 --> 00:40:48,079 SLASH-SLASH-SLASH NUMBER ARTICLE 1419 00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:52,383 444,024 THEN 25 THEN 26. 1420 00:40:52,383 --> 00:40:53,852 HE WROTE A PYTHON SCRIPT 1421 00:40:53,852 --> 00:40:55,220 CALLED keepgrabbing.py, WHICH 1422 00:40:55,220 --> 00:40:56,588 WAS KEEP GRABBING ONE ARTICLE 1423 00:40:56,588 --> 00:40:58,189 AFTER ANOTHER. 1424 00:40:58,189 --> 00:41:00,225 THE NEXT DAY, GHOST LAPTOP 1425 00:41:00,225 --> 00:41:02,227 BEGINS GRABBING ARTICLES, BUT 1426 00:41:02,227 --> 00:41:03,995 SOON, THE COMPUTER'S I.P. 1427 00:41:03,995 --> 00:41:05,296 ADDRESS IS BLOCKED. 1428 00:41:05,296 --> 00:41:07,232 FOR SWARTZ, IT'S BARELY A BUMP 1429 00:41:07,232 --> 00:41:08,199 IN THE ROAD. 1430 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:09,935 HE QUICKLY REASSIGNS HIS 1431 00:41:09,935 --> 00:41:11,603 COMPUTER'S I.P. ADDRESS AND 1432 00:41:11,603 --> 00:41:13,071 KEEPS DOWNLOADING. 1433 00:41:13,071 --> 00:41:14,506 WELL, JSTOR AND MIT TAKE A 1434 00:41:14,506 --> 00:41:16,041 NUMBER OF STEPS TO TRY AND 1435 00:41:16,041 --> 00:41:17,475 INTERFERE WITH THIS WHEN THEY 1436 00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:19,144 NOTICE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING, 1437 00:41:19,144 --> 00:41:20,612 AND WHEN THE MORE MODEST STEPS 1438 00:41:20,612 --> 00:41:22,280 DON'T WORK, THEN AT A CERTAIN 1439 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,949 STAGE, JSTOR JUST CUTS OFF MIT 1440 00:41:23,949 --> 00:41:25,450 FROM HAVING ACCESS TO THE JSTOR 1441 00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:26,151 DATABASE. 1442 00:41:26,151 --> 00:41:27,418 SO, THERE'S THIS KIND OF 1443 00:41:27,418 --> 00:41:29,320 CAT-AND-MOUSE GAME AROUND 1444 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,389 GETTING ACCESS TO THAT JSTOR 1445 00:41:31,389 --> 00:41:32,290 DATABASE. 1446 00:41:32,290 --> 00:41:34,459 AARON ULTIMATELY OBVIOUSLY IS 1447 00:41:34,459 --> 00:41:36,528 THE CAT, BECAUSE HE HAS MORE 1448 00:41:36,528 --> 00:41:38,664 TECHNICAL CAPABILITY THAN THE 1449 00:41:38,664 --> 00:41:40,899 JSTOR DATABASE PEOPLE DO IN 1450 00:41:40,899 --> 00:41:42,100 DEFENDING THEM. 1451 00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:43,268 EVENTUALLY, THERE WAS AN 1452 00:41:43,268 --> 00:41:44,469 UNLOCKED SUPPLY CLOSET IN THE 1453 00:41:44,469 --> 00:41:45,470 BASEMENT OF ONE OF THE 1454 00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:46,972 BUILDINGS, AND INSTEAD OF GOING 1455 00:41:46,972 --> 00:41:48,239 THROUGH WI-FI, HE WENT DOWN AND 1456 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,440 HE JUST PLUGGED THIS COMPUTER 1457 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:50,676 DIRECTLY INTO THE NETWORK AND 1458 00:41:50,676 --> 00:41:52,010 JUST LEFT IT THERE WITH AN 1459 00:41:52,010 --> 00:41:53,278 EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE DOWNLOADING 1460 00:41:53,278 --> 00:41:56,281 THESE ARTICLES TO THE COMPUTER. 1461 00:41:56,281 --> 00:41:58,349 UNKNOWN TO SWARTZ, HIS LAPTOP 1462 00:41:58,349 --> 00:42:00,518 AND HARD DRIVE HAD BEEN FOUND BY 1463 00:42:00,518 --> 00:42:02,387 AUTHORITIES. 1464 00:42:02,387 --> 00:42:04,623 THEY DIDN'T STOP THE DOWNLOADS. 1465 00:42:04,623 --> 00:42:06,524 INSTEAD, THEY INSTALLED A 1466 00:42:06,524 --> 00:42:09,527 SURVEILLANCE CAMERA. 1467 00:42:09,527 --> 00:42:11,162 THEY FOUND THE COMPUTER IN 1468 00:42:11,162 --> 00:42:12,698 THIS ROOM IN THE BASEMENT OF AN 1469 00:42:12,698 --> 00:42:14,299 MIT BUILDING. 1470 00:42:14,299 --> 00:42:15,667 THEY COULD HAVE UNPLUGGED IT. 1471 00:42:15,667 --> 00:42:17,302 THEY COULD HAVE WAITED FOR THE 1472 00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:18,570 GUY TO COME BACK AND SAID, 1473 00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:20,238 "DUDE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?", YOU 1474 00:42:20,238 --> 00:42:21,306 KNOW? 1475 00:42:21,306 --> 00:42:22,373 "CUT IT OUT. WHO ARE YOU?" 1476 00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:23,474 AND THEY COULD HAVE DONE ALL 1477 00:42:23,474 --> 00:42:24,576 THAT KIND OF STUFF, BUT THEY 1478 00:42:24,576 --> 00:42:25,110 DIDN'T. 1479 00:42:25,110 --> 00:42:27,045 WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO WAS FILM 1480 00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:28,980 IT TO GATHER EVIDENCE TO MAKE A 1481 00:42:28,980 --> 00:42:29,414 CASE. 1482 00:42:29,414 --> 00:42:31,349 THAT'S THE ONLY REASON YOU FILM 1483 00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:37,322 SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 1484 00:42:37,322 --> 00:42:38,957 AT FIRST, THE ONLY PERSON 1485 00:42:38,957 --> 00:42:40,125 CAUGHT ON THE GLITCHY 1486 00:42:40,125 --> 00:42:41,660 SURVEILLANCE CAMERA WAS USING 1487 00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:43,361 THE CLOSET AS A PLACE TO STORE 1488 00:42:43,361 --> 00:42:45,196 BOTTLES AND CANS. 1489 00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:54,539 BUT DAYS LATER, IT CAUGHT 1490 00:42:54,539 --> 00:42:56,374 SWARTZ. 1491 00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:07,252 SWARTZ IS REPLACING A HARD 1492 00:43:07,252 --> 00:43:08,086 DRIVE. 1493 00:43:08,086 --> 00:43:10,355 HE TAKES IT OUT OF HIS BACKPACK, 1494 00:43:10,355 --> 00:43:12,390 LEANS OUT OF FRAME FOR ABOUT 1495 00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:15,927 FIVE MINUTES, AND THEN LEAVES. 1496 00:43:36,414 --> 00:43:37,783 AND THEN THEY ORGANIZED, 1497 00:43:37,783 --> 00:43:39,450 LIKE, A STAKEOUT, WHERE, AS HE 1498 00:43:39,450 --> 00:43:41,152 WAS BIKING HOME FROM MIT, THESE 1499 00:43:41,152 --> 00:43:42,688 COPS CAME OUT FROM, LIKE, EITHER 1500 00:43:42,688 --> 00:43:44,289 SIDE OF THE ROAD OR SOMETHING 1501 00:43:44,289 --> 00:43:45,623 LIKE THAT AND STARTED GOING 1502 00:43:45,623 --> 00:43:48,359 AFTER HIM. 1503 00:43:48,359 --> 00:43:50,729 HE DESCRIBES THAT HE WAS 1504 00:43:50,729 --> 00:43:53,398 PRESSED DOWN AND ASSAULTED BY 1505 00:43:53,398 --> 00:43:54,565 THE POLICE. 1506 00:43:54,565 --> 00:43:56,101 HE TELLS ME THAT IT'S UNCLEAR 1507 00:43:56,101 --> 00:43:57,535 THAT THEY WERE POLICE THAT WERE 1508 00:43:57,535 --> 00:43:58,236 AFTER HIM. 1509 00:43:58,236 --> 00:44:00,105 HE THOUGHT THAT SOMEONE WAS 1510 00:44:00,105 --> 00:44:01,606 TRYING TO ATTACK HIM. 1511 00:44:01,606 --> 00:44:03,574 HE DOES TELL ME THEY BEAT HIM 1512 00:44:03,574 --> 00:44:04,142 UP. 1513 00:44:04,142 --> 00:44:07,478 [ SIREN WAILS ] 1514 00:44:07,478 --> 00:44:09,214 AND IT WAS JUST DEVASTATING. 1515 00:44:09,214 --> 00:44:10,648 THE NOTION OF ANY KIND OF 1516 00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:12,483 CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF ANYONE 1517 00:44:12,483 --> 00:44:14,385 IN OUR FAMILY OR ANYTHING WAS SO 1518 00:44:14,385 --> 00:44:16,254 FOREIGN AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE, I 1519 00:44:16,254 --> 00:44:17,588 DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. 1520 00:44:17,588 --> 00:44:19,324 WELL, THEY EXECUTE SEARCH 1521 00:44:19,324 --> 00:44:21,159 WARRANTS AT AARON'S HOUSE, HIS 1522 00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:22,794 APARTMENT IN CAMBRIDGE, IN HIS 1523 00:44:22,794 --> 00:44:27,298 OFFICE AT HARVARD. 1524 00:44:27,298 --> 00:44:29,134 TWO DAYS BEFORE THE ARREST, 1525 00:44:29,134 --> 00:44:30,635 THE INVESTIGATION HAD GONE 1526 00:44:30,635 --> 00:44:32,303 BEYOND JSTOR AND THE LOCAL 1527 00:44:32,303 --> 00:44:33,404 CAMBRIDGE POLICE. 1528 00:44:33,404 --> 00:44:35,206 IT HAD BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE 1529 00:44:35,206 --> 00:44:36,808 UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE. 1530 00:44:36,808 --> 00:44:38,543 THE SECRET SERVICE BEGAN 1531 00:44:38,543 --> 00:44:40,411 INVESTIGATING COMPUTER AND 1532 00:44:40,411 --> 00:44:42,413 CREDIT-CARD FRAUD IN 1984, BUT 1533 00:44:42,413 --> 00:44:44,415 SIX WEEKS AFTER THE ATTACK ON 1534 00:44:44,415 --> 00:44:46,251 9/11, THEIR ROLE EXPANDED. 1535 00:44:46,251 --> 00:44:48,186 [ APPLAUSE ] 1536 00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:49,855 PRESIDENT BUSH USED THE 1537 00:44:49,855 --> 00:44:51,757 PATRIOT ACT TO ESTABLISH A 1538 00:44:51,757 --> 00:44:53,691 NETWORK OF WHAT THEY CALLED 1539 00:44:53,691 --> 00:44:55,761 ELECTRONIC CRIMES TASK FORCES. 1540 00:44:55,761 --> 00:44:57,328 THE BILL BEFORE ME TAKES 1541 00:44:57,328 --> 00:44:59,097 ACCOUNT OF THE NEW REALITIES AND 1542 00:44:59,097 --> 00:45:00,398 DANGERS POSED BY MODERN 1543 00:45:00,398 --> 00:45:01,199 TERRORISTS. 1544 00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:02,533 ACCORDING TO THE SECRET 1545 00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:03,902 SERVICE, THEY ARE PRIMARILY 1546 00:45:03,902 --> 00:45:05,603 ENGAGED IN ACTIVITY WITH 1547 00:45:05,603 --> 00:45:07,338 ECONOMIC IMPACT, ORGANIZED 1548 00:45:07,338 --> 00:45:09,107 CRIMINAL GROUPS, OR USE OF 1549 00:45:09,107 --> 00:45:10,475 SCHEMES INVOLVING NEW 1550 00:45:10,475 --> 00:45:11,409 TECHNOLOGY. 1551 00:45:11,409 --> 00:45:12,710 THE SECRET SERVICE TURNS 1552 00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:14,479 SWARTZ'S CASE OVER TO THE BOSTON 1553 00:45:14,479 --> 00:45:15,680 U.S. ATTORNEYS OFFICE. 1554 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,415 THERE WAS A GUY IN THE U.S. 1555 00:45:17,415 --> 00:45:18,850 ATTORNEYS OFFICE WHO HAD THE 1556 00:45:18,850 --> 00:45:20,385 TITLE HEAD OF THE COMPUTER 1557 00:45:20,385 --> 00:45:22,120 CRIMES DIVISION OR TASK FORCE. 1558 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,588 I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HE HAD 1559 00:45:23,588 --> 00:45:25,323 GOING, BUT YOU'RE CERTAINLY NOT 1560 00:45:25,323 --> 00:45:26,657 MUCH OF A COMPUTER CRIMES 1561 00:45:26,657 --> 00:45:28,326 PROSECUTOR WITHOUT A COMPUTER 1562 00:45:28,326 --> 00:45:29,427 CRIME TO PROSECUTE. 1563 00:45:29,427 --> 00:45:30,829 SO HE JUMPED ON IT, KEPT IT FOR 1564 00:45:30,829 --> 00:45:32,297 HIMSELF, DIDN'T ASSIGN IT TO 1565 00:45:32,297 --> 00:45:33,664 SOMEONE ELSE WITHIN THE OFFICE 1566 00:45:33,664 --> 00:45:34,800 OR THE UNIT, AND THAT'S 1567 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,234 STEVE HEYMANN. 1568 00:45:36,234 --> 00:45:37,702 PROSECUTOR STEPHEN HEYMANN 1569 00:45:37,702 --> 00:45:39,404 HAS BEEN LARGELY OUT OF PUBLIC 1570 00:45:39,404 --> 00:45:40,671 VIEW SINCE THE ARREST OF 1571 00:45:40,671 --> 00:45:41,539 AARON SWARTZ. 1572 00:45:41,539 --> 00:45:43,208 BUT HE CAN BE SEEN HERE IN AN 1573 00:45:43,208 --> 00:45:44,709 EPISODE OF THE TELEVISION SHOW 1574 00:45:44,709 --> 00:45:46,411 "AMERICAN GREED" FILMED AROUND 1575 00:45:46,411 --> 00:45:48,479 THE TIME OF AARON'S ARREST. 1576 00:45:48,479 --> 00:45:50,148 HE IS DESCRIBING HIS PREVIOUS 1577 00:45:50,148 --> 00:45:51,482 CASE AGAINST THE NOTORIOUS 1578 00:45:51,482 --> 00:45:53,284 HACKER ALBERTO GONZALEZ, A CASE 1579 00:45:53,284 --> 00:45:54,853 THAT GARNERED HEYMANN ENORMOUS 1580 00:45:54,853 --> 00:45:56,621 PRESS ATTENTION AND ACCOLADES. 1581 00:45:56,621 --> 00:45:58,656 GONZALEZ MASTERMINDED THE THEFT 1582 00:45:58,656 --> 00:46:00,758 OF OVER 100 MILLION CREDIT-CARD 1583 00:46:00,758 --> 00:46:02,627 AND ATM NUMBERS, THE LARGEST 1584 00:46:02,627 --> 00:46:04,262 SUCH FRAUD IN HISTORY. 1585 00:46:04,262 --> 00:46:05,831 HERE HEYMANN, DESCRIBING 1586 00:46:05,831 --> 00:46:07,899 GONZALEZ, GIVES HIS VIEW ON THE 1587 00:46:07,899 --> 00:46:09,667 HACKER MIND-SET. 1588 00:46:09,667 --> 00:46:12,370 THESE GUYS ARE DRIVEN BY A 1589 00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:14,605 LOT OF THE SAME THINGS THAT 1590 00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:16,207 WE'RE DRIVEN BY. 1591 00:46:16,207 --> 00:46:17,843 THEY HAVE AN EGO. 1592 00:46:17,843 --> 00:46:19,878 THEY LIKE CHALLENGE. 1593 00:46:19,878 --> 00:46:21,947 AND, OF COURSE, THEY LIKE MONEY 1594 00:46:21,947 --> 00:46:23,882 AND EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET FROM 1595 00:46:23,882 --> 00:46:24,549 MONEY. 1596 00:46:24,549 --> 00:46:25,783 ONE OF THE SUSPECTS 1597 00:46:25,783 --> 00:46:27,585 IMPLICATED IN THE GONZALEZ CASE 1598 00:46:27,585 --> 00:46:28,887 WAS A YOUNG HACKER NAMED 1599 00:46:28,887 --> 00:46:29,855 JONATHAN JAMES. 1600 00:46:29,855 --> 00:46:31,589 BELIEVING GONZALEZ'S CRIMES 1601 00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:33,391 WOULD BE PINNED ON HIM, JAMES 1602 00:46:33,391 --> 00:46:34,993 COMMITTED SUICIDE DURING THE 1603 00:46:34,993 --> 00:46:35,994 INVESTIGATION. 1604 00:46:35,994 --> 00:46:37,495 IN AN EARLY PRESS RELEASE 1605 00:46:37,495 --> 00:46:38,864 DESCRIBING THE GOVERNMENT'S 1606 00:46:38,864 --> 00:46:40,331 POSITION IN THE CASE OF 1607 00:46:40,331 --> 00:46:41,799 AARON SWARTZ, HEYMANN'S BOSS, 1608 00:46:41,799 --> 00:46:43,501 U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT 1609 00:46:43,501 --> 00:46:45,203 OF MASSACHUSETTS CARMEN ORTIZ, 1610 00:46:45,203 --> 00:46:45,871 SAID THIS... 1611 00:46:53,478 --> 00:46:54,312 IT'S NOT TRUE. 1612 00:46:54,312 --> 00:46:55,780 IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE. 1613 00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:57,682 I'M NOT SAYING IT'S HARMLESS, 1614 00:46:57,682 --> 00:46:59,450 AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE 1615 00:46:59,450 --> 00:47:03,554 SHOULDN'T CRIMINALIZE STEALING 1616 00:47:03,554 --> 00:47:05,823 OF INFORMATION. 1617 00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:07,859 BUT YOU'VE GOT TO BE MUCH MORE 1618 00:47:07,859 --> 00:47:09,928 SUBTLE IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT 1619 00:47:09,928 --> 00:47:12,263 EXACTLY WHICH KINDS OF HARMS ARE 1620 00:47:12,263 --> 00:47:13,865 HARMFUL HERE. 1621 00:47:13,865 --> 00:47:15,733 SO, THE THING ABOUT A CROWBAR IS 1622 00:47:15,733 --> 00:47:17,535 EVERY TIME I BREAK INTO A PLACE 1623 00:47:17,535 --> 00:47:19,237 WITH A CROWBAR, I DO DAMAGE. 1624 00:47:19,237 --> 00:47:20,671 THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. 1625 00:47:20,671 --> 00:47:22,507 BUT WHEN AARON WRITES A SCRIPT 1626 00:47:22,507 --> 00:47:24,309 THAT SAYS "DOWNLOAD, DOWNLOAD, 1627 00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:27,812 DOWNLOAD" 100 TIMES IN A SECOND, 1628 00:47:27,812 --> 00:47:29,680 THERE'S NO OBVIOUS DAMAGE TO 1629 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,448 ANYBODY. 1630 00:47:30,448 --> 00:47:32,450 IF HE DOES THAT FOR THE PURPOSE 1631 00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:34,019 OF GATHERING ARCHIVE TO DO 1632 00:47:34,019 --> 00:47:35,987 ACADEMIC RESEARCH ON IT, THERE 1633 00:47:35,987 --> 00:47:37,989 IS NEVER ANY DAMAGE TO ANYBODY. 1634 00:47:37,989 --> 00:47:40,025 HE WASN'T STEALING, HE WASN'T 1635 00:47:40,025 --> 00:47:42,027 SELLING WHAT HE GOT, OR GIVING 1636 00:47:42,027 --> 00:47:42,793 IT AWAY. 1637 00:47:42,793 --> 00:47:44,529 HE WAS MAKING A POINT AS FAR AS 1638 00:47:44,529 --> 00:47:45,330 I CAN TELL. 1639 00:47:45,330 --> 00:47:46,831 THE ARREST TOOK ITS TOLL ON 1640 00:47:46,831 --> 00:47:47,465 SWARTZ. 1641 00:47:47,465 --> 00:47:48,967 HE JUST WOULDN'T TALK ABOUT 1642 00:47:48,967 --> 00:47:49,467 IT. 1643 00:47:49,467 --> 00:47:51,036 THEN HE'S, LIKE, VERY STRESSED. 1644 00:47:51,036 --> 00:47:52,637 IF YOU THOUGHT THE FBI WAS, 1645 00:47:52,637 --> 00:47:54,005 LIKE, GOING TO COME TO YOUR 1646 00:47:54,005 --> 00:47:55,740 DOORSTEP ANY DAY, ANY TIME YOU 1647 00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:57,408 WENT DOWN THE HALL EVEN TO DO 1648 00:47:57,408 --> 00:47:58,809 YOUR LAUNDRY AND THEY WOULD 1649 00:47:58,809 --> 00:48:00,411 BREAK IN TO YOUR APARTMENT 1650 00:48:00,411 --> 00:48:01,712 'CAUSE YOU LEFT THE DOOR 1651 00:48:01,712 --> 00:48:04,815 UNLOCKED, LIKE, I'D BE PRETTY 1652 00:48:04,815 --> 00:48:05,883 STRESSED. 1653 00:48:05,883 --> 00:48:07,652 AND IT WAS CLEAR, AND SO AARON 1654 00:48:07,652 --> 00:48:09,454 WAS ALWAYS SORT OF, LIKE, IN A 1655 00:48:09,454 --> 00:48:11,289 DOUR MOOD. 1656 00:48:17,662 --> 00:48:19,464 HE WOULDN'T GIVE OFF ANY 1657 00:48:19,464 --> 00:48:21,566 SENSITIVE INFORMATION ABOUT HIS 1658 00:48:21,566 --> 00:48:23,601 WHEREABOUTS DURING THIS TIME, 1659 00:48:23,601 --> 00:48:25,770 'CAUSE HE WAS SO AFRAID THAT THE 1660 00:48:25,770 --> 00:48:30,408 FBI WOULD BE WAITING FOR HIM. 1661 00:48:30,408 --> 00:48:31,809 IT WAS A TIME OF 1662 00:48:31,809 --> 00:48:33,678 UNPRECEDENTED SOCIAL AND 1663 00:48:33,678 --> 00:48:35,080 POLITICAL ACTIVISM. 1664 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,448 TIME MAGAZINE WOULD LATER NAME 1665 00:48:37,448 --> 00:48:39,650 AS THEIR 2011 PERSON OF THE YEAR 1666 00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:41,886 THE PROTESTOR. 1667 00:48:41,886 --> 00:48:44,022 THERE WAS A KIND OF HOTBED OF 1668 00:48:44,022 --> 00:48:48,359 HACKER ACTIVITY GOING ON. 1669 00:48:48,359 --> 00:48:51,496 WikiLeaks HAD RELEASED A TROVE 1670 00:48:51,496 --> 00:48:53,764 OF DIPLOMATIC CABLES. 1671 00:48:53,764 --> 00:48:55,666 MANNING HAD BEEN UNDER ARREST AT 1672 00:48:55,666 --> 00:48:56,467 THE TIME. 1673 00:48:56,467 --> 00:48:58,103 IT WAS UNKNOWN WHETHER HE WAS 1674 00:48:58,103 --> 00:48:59,670 THE SOURCE OF THE LEAK. 1675 00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:02,507 ANONYMOUS, WHICH IS A KIND OF 1676 00:49:02,507 --> 00:49:05,176 PROTEST ENSEMBLE THAT HAS A LOT 1677 00:49:05,176 --> 00:49:07,845 OF HACKERS IN ITS RANKS, WERE 1678 00:49:07,845 --> 00:49:10,415 GOING ON VARIOUS SPREES OF 1679 00:49:10,415 --> 00:49:11,116 SORTS. 1680 00:49:11,116 --> 00:49:13,051 IF YOU COMPARE THAT TO WHAT HE 1681 00:49:13,051 --> 00:49:15,053 DID, HIS STUFF SHOULD HAVE BEEN 1682 00:49:15,053 --> 00:49:17,088 LEFT BEHIND FOR MIT AND JSTOR TO 1683 00:49:17,088 --> 00:49:19,890 DEAL WITH IN A KIND OF PRIVATE, 1684 00:49:19,890 --> 00:49:21,826 PROFESSIONAL MATTER. 1685 00:49:21,826 --> 00:49:24,629 IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THE 1686 00:49:24,629 --> 00:49:26,864 ATTENTION OF THE CRIMINAL 1687 00:49:26,864 --> 00:49:28,166 SYSTEM. 1688 00:49:28,166 --> 00:49:30,001 IT JUST DIDN'T BELONG THERE. 1689 00:49:35,806 --> 00:49:37,542 BEFORE HE WAS INDICTED, 1690 00:49:37,542 --> 00:49:39,410 SWARTZ WAS OFFERED A PLEA DEAL 1691 00:49:39,410 --> 00:49:41,079 THAT INVOLVED THREE MONTHS IN 1692 00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:43,048 PRISON, TIME IN A HALFWAY HOUSE, 1693 00:49:43,048 --> 00:49:44,882 AND A YEAR OF HOME DETENTION, 1694 00:49:44,882 --> 00:49:46,517 ALL WITHOUT THE USE OF A 1695 00:49:46,517 --> 00:49:47,118 COMPUTER. 1696 00:49:47,118 --> 00:49:49,054 IT WAS ON THE CONDITION THAT 1697 00:49:49,054 --> 00:49:51,156 SWARTZ PLEAD GUILTY TO A FELONY. 1698 00:49:51,156 --> 00:49:52,490 HERE WE ARE. 1699 00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:54,025 WE HAVE NO DISCOVERY, NO 1700 00:49:54,025 --> 00:49:56,094 EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER ABOUT WHAT 1701 00:49:56,094 --> 00:49:58,196 THE GOVERNMENT'S CASE IS, AND WE 1702 00:49:58,196 --> 00:50:00,665 HAVE TO MAKE THIS IMMENSE 1703 00:50:00,665 --> 00:50:03,934 DECISION WHERE THE LAWYER IS 1704 00:50:03,934 --> 00:50:05,736 PUSHING YOU TO DO THIS, THE 1705 00:50:05,736 --> 00:50:07,505 GOVERNMENT IS GIVING YOU A 1706 00:50:07,505 --> 00:50:09,074 NON-NEGOTIABLE DEMAND, AND 1707 00:50:09,074 --> 00:50:11,076 YOU'RE TOLD THAT YOUR LIKELIHOOD 1708 00:50:11,076 --> 00:50:12,843 OF PREVAILING IS SMALL, SO 1709 00:50:12,843 --> 00:50:14,745 WHETHER YOU'RE GUILTY OR NOT, 1710 00:50:14,745 --> 00:50:16,581 YOU'RE BETTER OFF TAKING THE 1711 00:50:16,581 --> 00:50:17,882 DEAL. 1712 00:50:17,882 --> 00:50:19,950 BOSTON HAS ITS OWN COMPUTER 1713 00:50:19,950 --> 00:50:21,886 CRIMES DIVISION WITH LOTS OF 1714 00:50:21,886 --> 00:50:24,055 LAWYERS -- PROBABLY MORE LAWYERS 1715 00:50:24,055 --> 00:50:25,190 THAN THEY NEED. 1716 00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:26,924 SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN IMAGINE 1717 00:50:26,924 --> 00:50:28,693 ALL SORTS OF CASES WHERE IT'S 1718 00:50:28,693 --> 00:50:30,528 REALLY HARD TO PROSECUTE 'CAUSE 1719 00:50:30,528 --> 00:50:32,029 YOU'VE GOT SOME CRIMINALS IN 1720 00:50:32,029 --> 00:50:34,065 RUSSIA OR YOU'VE GOT SOME PEOPLE 1721 00:50:34,065 --> 00:50:36,067 INSIDE OF A CORPORATION THAT ARE 1722 00:50:36,067 --> 00:50:37,802 GONNA HAVE $500 LAWYERS OR 1723 00:50:37,802 --> 00:50:39,637 $700-AN-HOUR LAWYERS SITTING 1724 00:50:39,637 --> 00:50:40,805 DOWN AGAINST YOU. 1725 00:50:40,805 --> 00:50:42,807 AND THEN YOU GOT THIS CASE WITH 1726 00:50:42,807 --> 00:50:43,608 THIS KID. 1727 00:50:43,608 --> 00:50:45,576 WHICH IT'S PRETTY EASY TO PROVE 1728 00:50:45,576 --> 00:50:47,578 THAT HE DID SOMETHING, AND HE'S 1729 00:50:47,578 --> 00:50:49,180 ALREADY MARKED HIMSELF AS A 1730 00:50:49,180 --> 00:50:51,082 TROUBLEMAKER WITH THE FBI, SO 1731 00:50:51,082 --> 00:50:53,017 WHY NOT GO AS TOUGH AS YOU CAN 1732 00:50:53,017 --> 00:50:54,719 IN HERE AGAINST THAT GUY? 1733 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,121 IT'S GOOD FOR YOU, THE 1734 00:50:56,121 --> 00:50:57,988 PROSECUTOR, IT'S GOOD FOR THE 1735 00:50:57,988 --> 00:51:00,024 REPUBLIC, 'CAUSE YOU'RE FIGHTING 1736 00:51:00,024 --> 00:51:01,726 ALL THOSE TERRORIST TYPES. 1737 00:51:01,726 --> 00:51:02,827 I WAS SO SCARED. 1738 00:51:02,827 --> 00:51:04,295 I WAS SO SCARED OF HAVING MY 1739 00:51:04,295 --> 00:51:05,296 COMPUTER SEIZED. 1740 00:51:05,296 --> 00:51:07,064 I WAS SO SCARED OF GOING TO JAIL 1741 00:51:07,064 --> 00:51:09,134 BECAUSE OF MY COMPUTER BEING 1742 00:51:09,134 --> 00:51:09,934 SEIZED. 1743 00:51:09,934 --> 00:51:12,137 I HAD CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL FROM 1744 00:51:12,137 --> 00:51:14,639 SOURCES FROM MY PREVIOUS WORK ON 1745 00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,941 MY LAPTOP, AND THAT IS ABOVE ALL 1746 00:51:16,941 --> 00:51:18,976 MY PRIORITIES -- TO KEEP MY 1747 00:51:18,976 --> 00:51:20,111 SOURCES SAFE. 1748 00:51:20,111 --> 00:51:22,947 I WAS SO SCARED OF WHAT WAS 1749 00:51:22,947 --> 00:51:25,015 GONNA HAPPEN TO ADA. 1750 00:51:25,015 --> 00:51:26,851 AARON TOLD ME THAT THEY'D 1751 00:51:26,851 --> 00:51:28,686 OFFERED HIM A DEAL, AND HE 1752 00:51:28,686 --> 00:51:30,788 FINALLY JUST SAID THAT HE WOULD 1753 00:51:30,788 --> 00:51:32,623 TAKE IT IF I TOLD HIM TO. 1754 00:51:32,623 --> 00:51:36,026 AND I CAME REAL CLOSE TO SAYING, 1755 00:51:36,026 --> 00:51:37,528 "TAKE IT." 1756 00:51:37,528 --> 00:51:39,130 HE HAD THESE -- HE HAD 1757 00:51:39,130 --> 00:51:41,065 DEVELOPED, LIKE, SERIOUS 1758 00:51:41,065 --> 00:51:43,201 POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS IN THE 1759 00:51:43,201 --> 00:51:45,636 INTERVENING TIME BETWEEN WHEN, 1760 00:51:45,636 --> 00:51:47,772 YOU KNOW, THAT MOMENT WHEN HE 1761 00:51:47,772 --> 00:51:49,807 ENDED THAT ENTREPRENEURIAL 1762 00:51:49,807 --> 00:51:52,143 START-UP LIFE AND BEGUN THIS NEW 1763 00:51:52,143 --> 00:51:54,179 LIFE THAT HAD COME TO THIS 1764 00:51:54,179 --> 00:51:56,681 POLITICAL ACTIVISM. 1765 00:51:56,681 --> 00:52:00,351 AND HE JUST DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT 1766 00:52:00,351 --> 00:52:01,952 HE COULD CONTINUE IN HIS LIFE 1767 00:52:01,952 --> 00:52:02,820 WITH A FELONY. 1768 00:52:02,820 --> 00:52:04,121 YOU KNOW, HE SAID TO ME ONE 1769 00:52:04,121 --> 00:52:05,723 DAY -- WE WERE WALKING BY THE 1770 00:52:05,723 --> 00:52:07,091 WHITE HOUSE, AND HE SAID TO ME, 1771 00:52:07,091 --> 00:52:08,659 "THEY DON'T LET FELONS WORK 1772 00:52:08,659 --> 00:52:10,495 THERE." 1773 00:52:17,134 --> 00:52:19,069 I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HE REALLY 1774 00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:21,772 WANTED THAT TO BE HIS LIFE. 1775 00:52:21,772 --> 00:52:23,674 HE HADN'T KILLED ANYBODY. 1776 00:52:23,674 --> 00:52:25,176 HE HADN'T HURT ANYBODY. 1777 00:52:25,176 --> 00:52:27,178 HE HADN'T, LIKE, STOLEN MONEY. 1778 00:52:27,178 --> 00:52:29,113 HE HADN'T DONE ANYTHING THAT 1779 00:52:29,113 --> 00:52:31,015 SEEMED FELONY WORTHY, RIGHT? 1780 00:52:31,015 --> 00:52:34,685 AND... 1781 00:52:34,685 --> 00:52:36,321 THERE IS THIS IDEA THAT, LIKE, 1782 00:52:36,321 --> 00:52:38,256 THERE'S NO REASON THAT HE SHOULD 1783 00:52:38,256 --> 00:52:40,024 BE LABELED A FELON AND TAKEN 1784 00:52:40,024 --> 00:52:41,892 AWAY HIS RIGHT TO VOTE IN MANY 1785 00:52:41,892 --> 00:52:43,261 STATES FOR DOING WHAT HE DID. 1786 00:52:43,261 --> 00:52:44,795 LIKE, THAT'S JUST OUTRAGEOUS. 1787 00:52:44,795 --> 00:52:46,231 LIKE, IT MAKES SENSE FOR HIM TO 1788 00:52:46,231 --> 00:52:48,599 BE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE FINED A 1789 00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:50,701 BUNCH OF MONEY OR, YOU KNOW, 1790 00:52:50,701 --> 00:52:52,870 ASKED NOT TO COME BACK TO MIT 1791 00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:53,638 AGAIN. 1792 00:52:53,638 --> 00:52:55,806 BUT, LIKE, TO BE A FELON? 1793 00:52:55,806 --> 00:53:00,645 TO FACE JAIL TIME? 1794 00:53:00,645 --> 00:53:03,147 SWARTZ TURNED DOWN THE PLEA 1795 00:53:03,147 --> 00:53:03,948 DEAL. 1796 00:53:03,948 --> 00:53:06,651 HEYMANN DOUBLED HIS EFFORTS. 1797 00:53:06,651 --> 00:53:10,588 HEYMANN CONTINUED TO PRESS US AT 1798 00:53:10,588 --> 00:53:11,322 ALL LEVELS. 1799 00:53:11,322 --> 00:53:13,123 EVEN WITH THE PHYSICAL 1800 00:53:13,123 --> 00:53:15,092 EVIDENCE SEIZED FROM AARON'S 1801 00:53:15,092 --> 00:53:17,127 ACER COMPUTER, HARD DRIVE, AND 1802 00:53:17,127 --> 00:53:18,996 USB DRIVE, THE PROSECUTORS 1803 00:53:18,996 --> 00:53:21,065 NEEDED EVIDENCE OF HIS MOTIVES. 1804 00:53:21,065 --> 00:53:22,967 WHY WAS AARON SWARTZ DOWNLOADING 1805 00:53:22,967 --> 00:53:24,702 ARTICLES FROM JSTOR, AND JUST 1806 00:53:24,702 --> 00:53:26,203 WHAT DID HE PLAN TO DO WITH 1807 00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:28,806 THEM? 1808 00:53:28,806 --> 00:53:30,608 THE GOVERNMENT CLAIMS THAT HE 1809 00:53:30,608 --> 00:53:32,109 WAS PLANNING TO PUBLISH THESE. 1810 00:53:32,109 --> 00:53:33,744 WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHETHER 1811 00:53:33,744 --> 00:53:35,179 THAT WAS HIS REAL INTENTION, 1812 00:53:35,179 --> 00:53:36,981 BECAUSE AARON ALSO HAD A HISTORY 1813 00:53:36,981 --> 00:53:39,984 OF DOING PROJECTS WHERE HE'D 1814 00:53:39,984 --> 00:53:41,252 ANALYZE GIANT DATA SETS OF 1815 00:53:41,252 --> 00:53:42,887 ARTICLES, YOU KNOW, OR TO LEARN 1816 00:53:42,887 --> 00:53:44,289 INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THEM. 1817 00:53:44,289 --> 00:53:45,856 THE BEST EVIDENCE FOR THAT 1818 00:53:45,856 --> 00:53:47,024 WAS THAT WHEN HE WAS AT 1819 00:53:47,024 --> 00:53:50,295 STANFORD, HE ALSO DOWNLOADED THE 1820 00:53:50,295 --> 00:53:53,163 WHOLE WESTLAW LEGAL DATABASE. 1821 00:53:53,163 --> 00:53:54,932 IN A PROJECT WITH STANFORD 1822 00:53:54,932 --> 00:53:56,301 LAW STUDENTS, SWARTZ HAD 1823 00:53:56,301 --> 00:53:58,035 DOWNLOADED THE WESTLAW LEGAL 1824 00:53:58,035 --> 00:53:58,803 DATABASE. 1825 00:53:58,803 --> 00:54:00,070 HE UNCOVERED TROUBLING 1826 00:54:00,070 --> 00:54:01,972 CONNECTIONS BETWEEN FUNDERS OF 1827 00:54:01,972 --> 00:54:03,441 LEGAL RESEARCH AND FAVORABLE 1828 00:54:03,441 --> 00:54:04,174 RESULTS. 1829 00:54:04,174 --> 00:54:05,910 HE DID THIS AMAZING ANALYSIS 1830 00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:07,345 OF FOR-PROFIT COMPANIES GIVING 1831 00:54:07,345 --> 00:54:08,913 MONEY TO LAW PROFESSORS WHO 1832 00:54:08,913 --> 00:54:10,648 WROTE LAW-REVIEW ARTICLES WHICH 1833 00:54:10,648 --> 00:54:12,149 WERE THEN BENEFICIAL TO, LIKE, 1834 00:54:12,149 --> 00:54:13,684 EXXON DURING AN OIL SPILL, 1835 00:54:13,684 --> 00:54:14,084 RIGHT? 1836 00:54:14,084 --> 00:54:15,820 SO IT WAS A VERY CORRUPT SYSTEM 1837 00:54:15,820 --> 00:54:17,221 OF FUNDING, YOU KNOW, VANITY 1838 00:54:17,221 --> 00:54:17,955 RESEARCH. 1839 00:54:17,955 --> 00:54:19,724 SWARTZ HAD NEVER RELEASED THE 1840 00:54:19,724 --> 00:54:20,758 WESTLAW DOCUMENTS. 1841 00:54:20,758 --> 00:54:22,360 IN THEORY, HE COULD HAVE BEEN 1842 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,061 DOING THE SAME THING ABOUT THE 1843 00:54:24,061 --> 00:54:24,995 JSTOR DATABASE. 1844 00:54:24,995 --> 00:54:26,731 THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY 1845 00:54:26,731 --> 00:54:27,097 OKAY. 1846 00:54:27,097 --> 00:54:29,033 IF HE WERE, ON THE OTHER HAND, 1847 00:54:29,033 --> 00:54:30,368 INTENDING TO CREATE A 1848 00:54:30,368 --> 00:54:32,269 COMPETITIVE SERVICE TO JSTOR, 1849 00:54:32,269 --> 00:54:34,271 LIKE WE'RE GONNA SET UP OUR OWN, 1850 00:54:34,271 --> 00:54:35,406 YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO THE 1851 00:54:35,406 --> 00:54:37,007 HARVARD LAW REVIEW AND CHARGE, 1852 00:54:37,007 --> 00:54:38,309 YOU KNOW, MONEY FOR IT, THEN, 1853 00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:39,844 YOU KNOW, OKAY, NOW IT SEEMS 1854 00:54:39,844 --> 00:54:41,245 LIKE CRIMINAL VIOLATION BECAUSE 1855 00:54:41,245 --> 00:54:42,780 YOU'RE COMMERCIALLY TRYING TO 1856 00:54:42,780 --> 00:54:43,914 EXPLOIT THIS MATERIAL. 1857 00:54:43,914 --> 00:54:45,115 BUT IT'S KIND OF CRAZY TO 1858 00:54:45,115 --> 00:54:46,351 IMAGINE THAT'S WHAT HE WAS 1859 00:54:46,351 --> 00:54:46,917 DOING. 1860 00:54:46,917 --> 00:54:48,319 SO BUT THEN THERE'S THE MIDDLE 1861 00:54:48,319 --> 00:54:48,853 CASE. 1862 00:54:48,853 --> 00:54:50,287 WELL, WHAT IF HE WAS JUST TRYING 1863 00:54:50,287 --> 00:54:51,722 TO LIBERATE IT FOR ALL OF 1864 00:54:51,722 --> 00:54:52,457 DEVELOPING WORLD? 1865 00:54:52,457 --> 00:54:54,425 BUT DEPENDING ON WHAT HE WAS 1866 00:54:54,425 --> 00:54:55,760 DOING, IT CREATES A VERY 1867 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,094 DIFFERENT CHARACTER TO HOW ALL 1868 00:54:57,094 --> 00:54:58,463 THE LAW SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT 1869 00:54:58,463 --> 00:54:58,929 IT. 1870 00:54:58,929 --> 00:55:00,398 THE GOVERNMENT'S PROSECUTING HIM 1871 00:55:00,398 --> 00:55:01,966 AS IF THIS WAS LIKE A COMMERCIAL 1872 00:55:01,966 --> 00:55:03,100 CRIMINAL VIOLATION, LIKE 1873 00:55:03,100 --> 00:55:04,268 STEALING A WHOLE BUNCH OF 1874 00:55:04,268 --> 00:55:05,870 CREDIT-CARD RECORDS, THAT IT WAS 1875 00:55:05,870 --> 00:55:06,771 THAT KIND OF CRIME. 1876 00:55:06,771 --> 00:55:08,272 I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS 1877 00:55:08,272 --> 00:55:10,174 GONNA DO WITH THAT DATABASE, BUT 1878 00:55:10,174 --> 00:55:11,876 I HEARD FROM A FRIEND OF HIS 1879 00:55:11,876 --> 00:55:13,478 THAT AARON HAD TOLD HIM HE WAS 1880 00:55:13,478 --> 00:55:15,145 GONNA ANALYZE THE DATA FOR 1881 00:55:15,145 --> 00:55:17,047 EVIDENCE OF CORPORATE FUNDING OF 1882 00:55:17,047 --> 00:55:18,949 CLIMATE-CHANGE RESEARCH THAT LED 1883 00:55:18,949 --> 00:55:20,084 TO BIASED RESULTS. 1884 00:55:20,084 --> 00:55:24,422 AND I TOTALLY BELIEVE THAT. 1885 00:55:24,422 --> 00:55:26,724 I WAS JUST TOLD THAT STEVE 1886 00:55:26,724 --> 00:55:29,193 WANTED TO TALK TO ME. 1887 00:55:29,193 --> 00:55:30,995 AND I THOUGHT, "MAYBE THIS IS A 1888 00:55:30,995 --> 00:55:32,463 WAY I COULD GET OUT OF THIS, 1889 00:55:32,463 --> 00:55:34,031 JUST EXIT THE SITUATION." 1890 00:55:34,031 --> 00:55:35,533 AND I DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE IN 1891 00:55:35,533 --> 00:55:37,134 FEAR OF HAVING MY COMPUTER 1892 00:55:37,134 --> 00:55:37,802 SEIZED. 1893 00:55:37,802 --> 00:55:39,437 I DIDN'T WANT TO LIVE IN FEAR OF 1894 00:55:39,437 --> 00:55:41,005 HAVING TO GO TO JAIL ON A 1895 00:55:41,005 --> 00:55:43,073 CONTEMPT OF COURT CHARGE IF THEY 1896 00:55:43,073 --> 00:55:45,109 TRIED TO COMPEL ME TO DECRYPT MY 1897 00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:45,943 COMPUTER. 1898 00:55:45,943 --> 00:55:47,878 WHEN THEY CAME TO ME AND SAID, 1899 00:55:47,878 --> 00:55:50,147 "STEVE WANTS TO TALK TO YOU," 1900 00:55:50,147 --> 00:55:52,082 THAT SEEMED REASONABLE. 1901 00:55:52,082 --> 00:55:53,818 THEY OFFERED NORTON WHAT IS 1902 00:55:53,818 --> 00:55:55,185 KNOWN AS A QUEEN FOR A DAY 1903 00:55:55,185 --> 00:55:56,387 LETTER, OR A PROFFER. 1904 00:55:56,387 --> 00:55:58,088 IT ALLOWED PROSECUTORS TO ASK 1905 00:55:58,088 --> 00:55:59,790 QUESTIONS ABOUT AARON'S CASE. 1906 00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:01,426 NORTON WOULD BE GIVEN IMMUNITY 1907 00:56:01,426 --> 00:56:03,227 FROM PROSECUTION HERSELF FOR ANY 1908 00:56:03,227 --> 00:56:04,995 INFORMATION SHE REVEALED DURING 1909 00:56:04,995 --> 00:56:05,863 THE MEETING. 1910 00:56:05,863 --> 00:56:06,931 I DIDN'T LIKE IT. 1911 00:56:06,931 --> 00:56:08,399 I TOLD MY LAWYERS REPEATEDLY 1912 00:56:08,399 --> 00:56:10,067 THAT I DIDN'T -- THIS SEEMED 1913 00:56:10,067 --> 00:56:10,501 FISHY. 1914 00:56:10,501 --> 00:56:11,802 I DIDN'T LIKE THIS. 1915 00:56:11,802 --> 00:56:13,070 I DIDN'T WANT IMMUNITY. 1916 00:56:13,070 --> 00:56:14,338 I DIDN'T NEED IMMUNITY. 1917 00:56:14,338 --> 00:56:15,806 I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING. 1918 00:56:15,806 --> 00:56:17,074 BUT THEY WERE REALLY, REALLY 1919 00:56:17,074 --> 00:56:18,476 STRINGENT THAT THEY DID NOT WANT 1920 00:56:18,476 --> 00:56:19,844 ME MEETING THE PROSECUTOR 1921 00:56:19,844 --> 00:56:20,545 WITHOUT IMMUNITY. 1922 00:56:20,545 --> 00:56:22,112 BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, THIS IS 1923 00:56:22,112 --> 00:56:23,313 A QUEEN FOR A DAY DEAL, A 1924 00:56:23,313 --> 00:56:23,914 PROFFER? 1925 00:56:23,914 --> 00:56:25,149 RIGHT. A PROFFER LETTER. 1926 00:56:25,149 --> 00:56:26,551 IN WHICH YOU BASICALLY HANDED 1927 00:56:26,551 --> 00:56:27,985 INFORMATION OVER TO THEM IN 1928 00:56:27,985 --> 00:56:29,253 EXCHANGE FOR PROTECTION FROM 1929 00:56:29,253 --> 00:56:30,020 PROSECUTION. 1930 00:56:30,020 --> 00:56:31,155 SO, IT WASN'T HANDING 1931 00:56:31,155 --> 00:56:32,056 INFORMATION OVER. 1932 00:56:32,056 --> 00:56:33,323 IT WAS -- AT LEAST THAT'S NOT 1933 00:56:33,323 --> 00:56:34,091 HOW I SAW IT. 1934 00:56:34,091 --> 00:56:35,526 IT WAS JUST HAVING A DISCUSSION, 1935 00:56:35,526 --> 00:56:37,027 HAVING AN INTERVIEW WITH THEM. 1936 00:56:37,027 --> 00:56:38,262 WELL, THEY'RE ASKING YOU 1937 00:56:38,262 --> 00:56:38,929 QUESTIONS. 1938 00:56:38,929 --> 00:56:40,297 THEY'RE ASKING ME QUESTIONS. 1939 00:56:40,297 --> 00:56:41,432 AND THEY CAN ASK ABOUT 1940 00:56:41,432 --> 00:56:42,399 WHATEVER THEY WANT. 1941 00:56:42,399 --> 00:56:43,067 RIGHT. 1942 00:56:43,067 --> 00:56:44,268 AND WHATEVER THEY LEARN, 1943 00:56:44,268 --> 00:56:45,836 YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE PROSECUTED. 1944 00:56:45,836 --> 00:56:46,270 RIGHT. 1945 00:56:46,270 --> 00:56:48,906 AND I REPEATEDLY TRIED TO GO IN 1946 00:56:48,906 --> 00:56:49,507 NAKED. 1947 00:56:49,507 --> 00:56:51,542 I REPEATEDLY TRIED TO TURN DOWN 1948 00:56:51,542 --> 00:56:53,010 THE PROFFER LETTER. 1949 00:56:53,010 --> 00:56:53,878 I WAS ILL. 1950 00:56:53,878 --> 00:56:55,480 I WAS BEING PRESSURED BY MY 1951 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,280 LAWYERS. 1952 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,381 I WAS CONFUSED. 1953 00:56:57,381 --> 00:56:59,349 I WAS NOT DOING WELL BY THIS 1954 00:56:59,349 --> 00:57:00,050 POINT. 1955 00:57:00,050 --> 00:57:01,986 I WAS DEPRESSED, AND I WAS 1956 00:57:01,986 --> 00:57:04,088 SCARED, AND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND 1957 00:57:04,088 --> 00:57:05,623 THE SITUATION I WAS IN. 1958 00:57:05,623 --> 00:57:07,892 I HAD NO IDEA WHY I WAS IN THIS 1959 00:57:07,892 --> 00:57:08,593 SITUATION. 1960 00:57:08,593 --> 00:57:10,595 I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING 1961 00:57:10,595 --> 00:57:13,230 INTERESTING, MUCH LESS WRONG. 1962 00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:14,499 WE WENT OUT OF OUR MINDS. 1963 00:57:14,499 --> 00:57:15,600 AARON WAS CLEARLY VERY 1964 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:16,634 DISTRAUGHT ABOUT IT. 1965 00:57:16,634 --> 00:57:18,135 WE WERE VERY DISTRAUGHT ABOUT 1966 00:57:18,135 --> 00:57:18,402 IT. 1967 00:57:18,402 --> 00:57:19,637 AARON'S ATTORNEYS WERE VERY 1968 00:57:19,637 --> 00:57:20,871 DISTRAUGHT ABOUT IT. 1969 00:57:20,871 --> 00:57:22,640 WE TRIED TO GET QUINN TO CHANGE 1970 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:23,508 ATTORNEYS. 1971 00:57:23,508 --> 00:57:25,510 I WAS VERY UNUSED TO BEING IN 1972 00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:27,545 A ROOM WITH LARGE MEN WELL-ARMED 1973 00:57:27,545 --> 00:57:29,480 THAT ARE CONTINUALLY TELLING ME 1974 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,415 I'M LYING AND THAT I MUST HAVE 1975 00:57:31,415 --> 00:57:32,483 DONE SOMETHING. 1976 00:57:32,483 --> 00:57:33,250 [ SIGHS ] 1977 00:57:33,250 --> 00:57:35,185 I TOLD THEM THAT THIS THING THAT 1978 00:57:35,185 --> 00:57:38,989 THEY WERE PROSECUTING WASN'T A 1979 00:57:38,989 --> 00:57:39,389 CRIME. 1980 00:57:39,389 --> 00:57:41,058 I TOLD THEM THAT THEY WERE ON 1981 00:57:41,058 --> 00:57:42,392 THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. 1982 00:57:42,392 --> 00:57:43,460 I USED THAT PHRASE. 1983 00:57:43,460 --> 00:57:45,062 I SAID, "YOU'RE ON THE WRONG 1984 00:57:45,062 --> 00:57:48,198 SIDE OF HISTORY." 1985 00:57:48,198 --> 00:57:49,366 AND THEY LOOKED BORED. 1986 00:57:49,366 --> 00:57:50,968 THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK ANGRY. 1987 00:57:50,968 --> 00:57:52,202 THEY JUST LOOKED BORED. 1988 00:57:52,202 --> 00:57:54,004 AND IT BEGAN TO OCCUR TO ME THAT 1989 00:57:54,004 --> 00:57:55,372 WE WEREN'T HAVING THE SAME 1990 00:57:55,372 --> 00:57:56,240 CONVERSATION. 1991 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,908 I MEAN, I TOLD THEM PLENTY OF 1992 00:57:57,908 --> 00:57:59,309 THINGS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHY 1993 00:57:59,309 --> 00:58:01,045 PEOPLE WOULD DOWNLOAD JOURNAL 1994 00:58:01,045 --> 00:58:02,547 ARTICLES, AND EVENTUALLY -- I 1995 00:58:02,547 --> 00:58:04,214 DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WAS AROUND 1996 00:58:04,214 --> 00:58:06,283 IT. 1997 00:58:06,283 --> 00:58:07,417 I MENTIONED THAT HE'D DONE THIS 1998 00:58:07,417 --> 00:58:08,152 BLOG POST, THE 1999 00:58:08,152 --> 00:58:12,256 GUERILLA OPEN ACCESS MANIFESTO. 2000 00:58:12,256 --> 00:58:13,558 THIS IS THE 2001 00:58:13,558 --> 00:58:16,193 GUERILLA OPEN ACCESS MANIFESTO 2002 00:58:16,193 --> 00:58:18,696 SUPPOSEDLY WRITTEN IN JULY 2008 2003 00:58:18,696 --> 00:58:19,697 IN ITALY. 2004 00:58:19,697 --> 00:58:21,065 "INFORMATION IS POWER. 2005 00:58:21,065 --> 00:58:22,432 BUT LIKE ALL POWER, THERE ARE 2006 00:58:22,432 --> 00:58:24,034 THOSE WHO WANT TO KEEP IT FOR 2007 00:58:24,034 --> 00:58:24,602 THEMSELVES. 2008 00:58:24,602 --> 00:58:26,203 THE WORLD'S ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC 2009 00:58:26,203 --> 00:58:27,638 AND CULTURE HERITAGE PUBLISHED 2010 00:58:27,638 --> 00:58:29,173 OVER CENTURIES IN BOOKS AND 2011 00:58:29,173 --> 00:58:30,608 JOURNALS IS INCREASINGLY BEING 2012 00:58:30,608 --> 00:58:32,176 DIGITIZED AND LOCKED UP BY A 2013 00:58:32,176 --> 00:58:34,111 HANDFUL OF PRIVATE CORPORATIONS. 2014 00:58:34,111 --> 00:58:35,412 MEANWHILE, THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN 2015 00:58:35,412 --> 00:58:36,981 LOCKED OUT ARE NOT STANDING IDLY 2016 00:58:36,981 --> 00:58:37,247 BY. 2017 00:58:37,247 --> 00:58:38,448 YOU'VE BEEN SNEAKING THROUGH 2018 00:58:38,448 --> 00:58:39,984 HOLES AND CLIMBING OVER FENCES, 2019 00:58:39,984 --> 00:58:41,151 LIBERATING THE INFORMATION 2020 00:58:41,151 --> 00:58:42,486 LOCKED UP BY THE PUBLISHERS AND 2021 00:58:42,486 --> 00:58:44,021 SHARING THEM WITH YOUR FRIENDS. 2022 00:58:44,021 --> 00:58:45,489 BUT ALL OF THIS ACTION GOES ON 2023 00:58:45,489 --> 00:58:47,224 IN THE DARK, HIDDEN UNDERGROUND. 2024 00:58:47,224 --> 00:58:48,959 IT'S CALLED STEALING OR PIRACY, 2025 00:58:48,959 --> 00:58:50,260 AS IF SHARING A WEALTH OF 2026 00:58:50,260 --> 00:58:51,495 KNOWLEDGE WERE THE MORAL 2027 00:58:51,495 --> 00:58:53,230 EQUIVALENT OF PLUNDERING A SHIP 2028 00:58:53,230 --> 00:58:54,431 AND MURDERING ITS CREW. 2029 00:58:54,431 --> 00:58:56,133 BUT SHARING ISN'T IMMORAL -- 2030 00:58:56,133 --> 00:58:57,467 IT'S A MORAL IMPERATIVE. 2031 00:58:57,467 --> 00:58:59,103 ONLY THOSE BLINDED BY GREED 2032 00:58:59,103 --> 00:59:00,671 WOULD REFUSE TO LET A FRIEND 2033 00:59:00,671 --> 00:59:01,538 MAKE A COPY. 2034 00:59:01,538 --> 00:59:03,207 THERE'S NO JUSTICE IN FOLLOWING 2035 00:59:03,207 --> 00:59:03,808 UNJUST LAWS. 2036 00:59:03,808 --> 00:59:05,509 IT'S TIME TO COME INTO THE LIGHT 2037 00:59:05,509 --> 00:59:06,977 AND, IN A GRAND TRADITION OF 2038 00:59:06,977 --> 00:59:08,445 CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, DECLARE OUR 2039 00:59:08,445 --> 00:59:10,147 OPPOSITION TO THIS PRIVATE THEFT 2040 00:59:10,147 --> 00:59:11,649 OF PUBLIC CULTURE." 2041 00:59:11,649 --> 00:59:13,417 THE MANIFESTO ITSELF WAS 2042 00:59:13,417 --> 00:59:15,152 ALLEGEDLY WRITTEN BY FOUR 2043 00:59:15,152 --> 00:59:17,187 DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND ALSO EDITED 2044 00:59:17,187 --> 00:59:18,055 BY NORTON. 2045 00:59:18,055 --> 00:59:20,090 BUT IT WAS SWARTZ WHO HAD SIGNED 2046 00:59:20,090 --> 00:59:21,191 HIS NAME TO IT. 2047 00:59:21,191 --> 00:59:22,760 WHEN IT'S OVER, I GO 2048 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,995 IMMEDIATELY TO AARON AND TELL 2049 00:59:24,995 --> 00:59:27,031 HIM EVERYTHING I CAN REMEMBER 2050 00:59:27,031 --> 00:59:28,498 ABOUT IT. 2051 00:59:28,498 --> 00:59:31,001 AND HE GETS VERY ANGRY. 2052 00:59:31,001 --> 00:59:34,004 [ THUNDER RUMBLES ] 2053 00:59:34,004 --> 00:59:35,239 THE THINGS THAT I'D DONE 2054 00:59:35,239 --> 00:59:36,607 SHOULDN'T HAVE ADDED UP THAT 2055 00:59:36,607 --> 00:59:40,044 WAY. 2056 00:59:40,044 --> 00:59:43,147 I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG, 2057 00:59:43,147 --> 00:59:46,250 AND EVERYTHING HAD GONE WRONG. 2058 00:59:46,250 --> 00:59:49,553 BUT I WAS NEVER... 2059 00:59:49,553 --> 00:59:52,589 [ SIGHS ] 2060 00:59:52,589 --> 00:59:56,627 [ SIGHS ] 2061 00:59:56,627 --> 01:00:00,064 I'M STILL ANGRY. 2062 01:00:00,064 --> 01:00:03,267 I'M STILL ANGRY THAT YOU CAN TRY 2063 01:00:03,267 --> 01:00:04,735 YOUR BEST WITH THESE PEOPLE TO 2064 01:00:04,735 --> 01:00:06,336 DO THE RIGHT THING, AND THEY 2065 01:00:06,336 --> 01:00:08,105 WILL TURN EVERYTHING AGAINST YOU 2066 01:00:08,105 --> 01:00:09,473 AND THEY WILL HURT YOU WITH 2067 01:00:09,473 --> 01:00:14,344 ANYTHING THEY CAN. 2068 01:00:14,344 --> 01:00:17,147 AND IN THAT MOMENT, I REGRET 2069 01:00:17,147 --> 01:00:19,416 THAT I SAID WHAT I DID. 2070 01:00:19,416 --> 01:00:21,118 BUT MY MUCH LARGER REGRET IS 2071 01:00:21,118 --> 01:00:22,753 THAT WE HAVE SETTLED FOR THIS, 2072 01:00:22,753 --> 01:00:24,655 THAT WE ARE OKAY WITH THIS, THAT 2073 01:00:24,655 --> 01:00:26,323 WE ARE OKAY WITH A JUSTICE 2074 01:00:26,323 --> 01:00:28,258 SYSTEM THAT TRIES TO GAME PEOPLE 2075 01:00:28,258 --> 01:00:30,060 INTO LITTLE TRAPS SO THEY CAN 2076 01:00:30,060 --> 01:00:32,362 RUIN THEIR LIVES. 2077 01:00:32,362 --> 01:00:35,265 SO, YEAH, I WISH I HADN'T SAID 2078 01:00:35,265 --> 01:00:38,302 THAT, BUT I'M MUCH, MUCH ANGRIER 2079 01:00:38,302 --> 01:00:42,106 THAT THIS IS WHERE I AM... 2080 01:00:42,106 --> 01:00:44,842 THAT THIS IS WHAT WE AS A PEOPLE 2081 01:00:44,842 --> 01:00:47,845 THINK IS OKAY. 2082 01:00:47,845 --> 01:00:50,247 THEY USED EVERY METHOD THAT I 2083 01:00:50,247 --> 01:00:52,449 THINK THEY COULD THINK OF TO GET 2084 01:00:52,449 --> 01:00:54,618 HER TO PROVIDE INFORMATION WHICH 2085 01:00:54,618 --> 01:00:56,754 WOULD BE UNHELPFUL TO AARON AND 2086 01:00:56,754 --> 01:00:58,789 HELPFUL TO THE PROSECUTION OF 2087 01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:59,523 AARON. 2088 01:00:59,523 --> 01:01:01,859 BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK SHE 2089 01:01:01,859 --> 01:01:04,261 HAD INFORMATION THAT WAS HELPFUL 2090 01:01:04,261 --> 01:01:07,164 TO THE GOVERNMENT. 2091 01:01:07,164 --> 01:01:08,632 MONTHS GO BY AS SWARTZ'S 2092 01:01:08,632 --> 01:01:10,234 FRIENDS AND FAMILY AWAIT A 2093 01:01:10,234 --> 01:01:11,802 LOOMING INDICTMENT. 2094 01:01:11,802 --> 01:01:13,437 IN THE MEANTIME, SWARTZ WAS 2095 01:01:13,437 --> 01:01:15,105 BECOMING A GO-TO EXPERT ON A 2096 01:01:15,105 --> 01:01:16,506 SERIES OF INTERNET ISSUES. 2097 01:01:16,506 --> 01:01:17,842 DO YOU THINK THAT THE 2098 01:01:17,842 --> 01:01:19,409 INTERNET IS SOMETHING THAT 2099 01:01:19,409 --> 01:01:21,111 SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A HUMAN 2100 01:01:21,111 --> 01:01:22,579 RIGHT AND SOMETHING THAT THE 2101 01:01:22,579 --> 01:01:24,414 GOVERNMENT CANNOT TAKE AWAY FROM 2102 01:01:24,414 --> 01:01:24,749 YOU? 2103 01:01:24,749 --> 01:01:25,783 YES, DEFINITELY. 2104 01:01:25,783 --> 01:01:27,184 I MEAN, THIS NOTION THAT 2105 01:01:27,184 --> 01:01:28,585 NATIONAL SECURITY IS AN EXCUSE 2106 01:01:28,585 --> 01:01:29,820 TO SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET, 2107 01:01:29,820 --> 01:01:31,455 THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE HEARD IN 2108 01:01:31,455 --> 01:01:32,823 EGYPT AND SYRIA AND ALL THESE 2109 01:01:32,823 --> 01:01:33,758 OTHER COUNTRIES. 2110 01:01:33,758 --> 01:01:34,825 AND SO, YEAH, IT'S TRUE. 2111 01:01:34,825 --> 01:01:36,226 SITES LIKE WikiLeaks ARE GOING 2112 01:01:36,226 --> 01:01:37,161 TO BE PUTTING UP SOME 2113 01:01:37,161 --> 01:01:38,428 EMBARRASSING MATERIAL ABOUT WHAT 2114 01:01:38,428 --> 01:01:39,596 THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DOES, AND 2115 01:01:39,596 --> 01:01:40,765 PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE ORGANIZING 2116 01:01:40,765 --> 01:01:42,199 TO PROTEST ABOUT IT AND TRY AND 2117 01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:43,233 CHANGE THEIR GOVERNMENT. 2118 01:01:43,233 --> 01:01:44,334 YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S A GOOD 2119 01:01:44,334 --> 01:01:44,668 THING. 2120 01:01:44,668 --> 01:01:45,602 THAT'S WHAT ALL THESE 2121 01:01:45,602 --> 01:01:46,771 FIRST-AMENDMENT RIGHTS, FREE 2122 01:01:46,771 --> 01:01:47,772 EXPRESSION, FREEDOM OF 2123 01:01:47,772 --> 01:01:48,906 ASSOCIATION ARE ALL ABOUT. 2124 01:01:48,906 --> 01:01:50,240 AND SO, THE NOTION THAT WE 2125 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:51,541 SHOULD TRY AND SHUT THOSE DOWN I 2126 01:01:51,541 --> 01:01:52,709 THINK JUST GOES AGAINST VERY 2127 01:01:52,709 --> 01:01:53,844 BASIC AMERICAN PRINCIPLES. 2128 01:01:53,844 --> 01:01:55,279 THE PRINCIPLE, I THINK, IS ONE 2129 01:01:55,279 --> 01:01:56,546 THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WOULD 2130 01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:57,381 HAVE UNDERSTOOD. 2131 01:01:57,381 --> 01:01:58,648 IF THE INTERNET HAD BEEN AROUND 2132 01:01:58,648 --> 01:01:59,850 BACK THEN, INSTEAD OF PUTTING 2133 01:01:59,850 --> 01:02:00,851 POST OFFICES IN THE 2134 01:02:00,851 --> 01:02:02,252 CONSTITUTION, THEY WOULD HAVE 2135 01:02:02,252 --> 01:02:03,754 PUT ISPs. 2136 01:02:03,754 --> 01:02:04,688 WELL, IT'S DEFINITELY 2137 01:02:04,688 --> 01:02:05,689 INTERESTING TO SEE HOW... 2138 01:02:05,689 --> 01:02:06,623 SWARTZ MEETS ACTIVIST 2139 01:02:06,623 --> 01:02:08,425 TAREN STINEBRICKNER-KAUFFMAN, 2140 01:02:08,425 --> 01:02:09,927 AND THE TWO BEGIN TO DATE. 2141 01:02:09,927 --> 01:02:11,328 WE NEED A MASSIVE GLOBAL 2142 01:02:11,328 --> 01:02:11,896 PUBLIC OUTCRY. 2143 01:02:11,896 --> 01:02:13,330 THERE'S NO MASSIVE GLOBAL 2144 01:02:13,330 --> 01:02:13,898 PUBLIC OUTCRY. 2145 01:02:13,898 --> 01:02:15,299 IT WON'T CREATE ANY CHANGE. 2146 01:02:15,299 --> 01:02:16,633 YOU KNOW, FOUR PEOPLE IN THIS 2147 01:02:16,633 --> 01:02:17,835 CITY SHOULD CAUSE A MASSIVE 2148 01:02:17,835 --> 01:02:18,836 GLOBAL PUBLIC OUTCRY. 2149 01:02:18,836 --> 01:02:20,704 YOU KNOW, WE NEED A PETITION 2150 01:02:20,704 --> 01:02:21,405 SIGNER. 2151 01:02:21,405 --> 01:02:22,706 WITHOUT TELLING HER 2152 01:02:22,706 --> 01:02:24,241 SPECIFICS, HE WARNED HER HE WAS 2153 01:02:24,241 --> 01:02:25,575 INVOLVED IN SOMETHING HE CALLED 2154 01:02:25,575 --> 01:02:27,411 SIMPLY "THE BAD THING." 2155 01:02:27,411 --> 01:02:28,678 AND I HAD SORT OF CRAZY 2156 01:02:28,678 --> 01:02:29,947 THEORIES, LIKE THAT HE WAS 2157 01:02:29,947 --> 01:02:31,281 HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH 2158 01:02:31,281 --> 01:02:32,682 ELIZABETH WARREN OR SOMETHING. 2159 01:02:32,682 --> 01:02:33,650 I SPECULATED BOTH 2160 01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:34,684 HILLARY CLINTON AND 2161 01:02:34,684 --> 01:02:36,186 ELIZABETH WARREN, ACTUALLY. 2162 01:02:36,186 --> 01:02:37,687 BUT...[ LAUGHS ] 2163 01:02:37,687 --> 01:02:39,656 SO, SOMETIME IN PROBABLY LATE 2164 01:02:39,656 --> 01:02:41,658 JULY, AARON CALLED ME, AND I 2165 01:02:41,658 --> 01:02:43,560 HAPPENED TO PICK UP, AND HE 2166 01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:44,761 SAID, YOU KNOW, "THE BAD THING 2167 01:02:44,761 --> 01:02:46,196 MIGHT BE IN THE NEWS TOMORROW. 2168 01:02:46,196 --> 01:02:47,397 DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU, OR 2169 01:02:47,397 --> 01:02:48,665 DO YOU WANT TO READ ABOUT IT IN 2170 01:02:48,665 --> 01:02:49,299 THE NEWS?" 2171 01:02:49,299 --> 01:02:50,567 AND I SAID, "WELL, I WANT YOU TO 2172 01:02:50,567 --> 01:02:52,602 TELL ME." 2173 01:02:52,602 --> 01:02:57,808 AND HE SAID, "WELL, I'VE BEEN 2174 01:02:57,808 --> 01:02:59,243 ARRESTED FOR DOWNLOADING TOO 2175 01:02:59,243 --> 01:03:00,610 MANY ACADEMIC-JOURNAL ARTICLES, 2176 01:03:00,610 --> 01:03:01,979 AND THEY WANT TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE 2177 01:03:01,979 --> 01:03:03,647 OUT OF ME." 2178 01:03:03,647 --> 01:03:05,816 AND I WAS LIKE, "THAT'S IT? 2179 01:03:05,816 --> 01:03:07,517 THAT'S THE BIG FUSS? 2180 01:03:07,517 --> 01:03:08,385 REALLY? 2181 01:03:08,385 --> 01:03:10,487 LIKE, THIS DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A 2182 01:03:10,487 --> 01:03:11,621 VERY BIG DEAL." 2183 01:03:11,621 --> 01:03:13,523 ON JULY 14, 2011, FEDERAL 2184 01:03:13,523 --> 01:03:15,492 PROSECUTORS INDICT SWARTZ ON 2185 01:03:15,492 --> 01:03:16,827 FOUR FELONY COUNTS. 2186 01:03:16,827 --> 01:03:18,896 HE GETS INDICTED ON THE SAME 2187 01:03:18,896 --> 01:03:20,898 DAY THAT, LIKE, TWO PEOPLE IN 2188 01:03:20,898 --> 01:03:22,732 ENGLAND WHO ARE PART OF LulzSec 2189 01:03:22,732 --> 01:03:24,568 GET ARRESTED AND, LIKE, A VERY 2190 01:03:24,568 --> 01:03:25,735 OTHER REAL HACKERS. 2191 01:03:25,735 --> 01:03:27,604 AND AARON IS JUST, LIKE, SOMEONE 2192 01:03:27,604 --> 01:03:29,473 WHO KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A HACKER 2193 01:03:29,473 --> 01:03:31,308 ENOUGH THAT THEY CAN, LIKE, YOU 2194 01:03:31,308 --> 01:03:32,877 KNOW, PUT HIS HEAD ON A STAKE 2195 01:03:32,877 --> 01:03:34,744 AND, LIKE, PUT IT ON THE GATES. 2196 01:03:34,744 --> 01:03:36,580 AARON WENT TO SURRENDER, AND 2197 01:03:36,580 --> 01:03:38,648 THEY ARRESTED HIM. 2198 01:03:38,648 --> 01:03:40,918 THEY THEN STRIP-SEARCHED HIM, 2199 01:03:40,918 --> 01:03:43,387 TOOK AWAY HIS SHOELACES, TOOK 2200 01:03:43,387 --> 01:03:45,722 AWAY HIS BELT, AND LEFT HIM IN 2201 01:03:45,722 --> 01:03:49,526 SOLITARY CONFINEMENT. 2202 01:03:49,526 --> 01:03:51,361 THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS 2203 01:03:51,361 --> 01:03:52,930 UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS OFFICE 2204 01:03:52,930 --> 01:03:54,598 RELEASED A STATEMENT SAYING 2205 01:03:54,598 --> 01:03:56,633 SWARTZ FACES UP TO 35 YEARS IN 2206 01:03:56,633 --> 01:03:58,735 PRISON, TO BE FOLLOWED BY THREE 2207 01:03:58,735 --> 01:04:00,737 YEARS OF SUPERVISED RELEASE, 2208 01:04:00,737 --> 01:04:02,772 RESTITUTION, FORFEITURE, AND A 2209 01:04:02,772 --> 01:04:05,742 FINE OF UP TO $1 MILLION. 2210 01:04:05,742 --> 01:04:07,945 HE IS RELEASED ON $100,000 BAIL 2211 01:04:07,945 --> 01:04:10,414 THE SAME DAY THE PRIMARY VICTIM 2212 01:04:10,414 --> 01:04:12,516 IN THE CASE, JSTOR, FORMALLY 2213 01:04:12,516 --> 01:04:14,484 DROPS ALL CHARGES AGAINST 2214 01:04:14,484 --> 01:04:16,586 SWARTZ AND DECLINES TO PURSUE 2215 01:04:16,586 --> 01:04:17,487 THE CASE. 2216 01:04:17,487 --> 01:04:18,923 JSTOR -- THEY WEREN'T OUR 2217 01:04:18,923 --> 01:04:19,623 FRIENDS. 2218 01:04:19,623 --> 01:04:21,425 THEY WEREN'T HELPFUL OR FRIENDLY 2219 01:04:21,425 --> 01:04:22,927 TO US, BUT THEY ALSO WERE JUST 2220 01:04:22,927 --> 01:04:24,728 KIND OF LIKE, "WE'RE NOT PART OF 2221 01:04:24,728 --> 01:04:25,329 THIS." 2222 01:04:25,329 --> 01:04:26,663 JSTOR AND THEIR PARENT 2223 01:04:26,663 --> 01:04:27,864 COMPANY, ITHAKA, ALSO 2224 01:04:27,864 --> 01:04:29,499 SIDESTEPPED REQUESTS TO TALK 2225 01:04:29,499 --> 01:04:30,867 WITH THIS FILM. 2226 01:04:30,867 --> 01:04:32,336 BUT AT THE TIME, THEY RELEASED A 2227 01:04:32,336 --> 01:04:33,437 STATEMENT SAYING IT WAS THE 2228 01:04:33,437 --> 01:04:34,704 GOVERNMENT'S DECISION WHETHER TO 2229 01:04:34,704 --> 01:04:37,707 PROSECUTE, NOT JSTOR's. 2230 01:04:37,707 --> 01:04:39,609 AND SO, IT'S OUR BELIEF THAT 2231 01:04:39,609 --> 01:04:41,345 WITH THAT, THE CASE WILL BE 2232 01:04:41,345 --> 01:04:43,047 OVER, THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO 2233 01:04:43,047 --> 01:04:44,949 GET STEVE HEYMANN DROP THE CASE 2234 01:04:44,949 --> 01:04:47,617 OR SETTLE IT IN SOME RATIONAL 2235 01:04:47,617 --> 01:04:48,352 WAY. 2236 01:04:48,352 --> 01:04:50,887 AND THE GOVERNMENT REFUSED. 2237 01:04:50,887 --> 01:04:54,591 WHY? 2238 01:04:54,591 --> 01:04:56,360 WELL, BECAUSE I THINK THEY 2239 01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:58,062 WANTED TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF 2240 01:04:58,062 --> 01:04:59,997 AARON, AND THEY SAID THEY WANTED 2241 01:04:59,997 --> 01:05:01,698 TO -- THE REASON WHY THEY 2242 01:05:01,698 --> 01:05:03,467 WOULDN'T MOVE ON REQUIRING A 2243 01:05:03,467 --> 01:05:05,135 FELONY CONVICTION AND JAIL TIME 2244 01:05:05,135 --> 01:05:09,373 WAS THAT THEY WANTED -- THEY 2245 01:05:09,373 --> 01:05:10,707 WANTED TO USE THIS CASE AS A 2246 01:05:10,707 --> 01:05:11,741 CASE FOR DETERRENCE. 2247 01:05:11,741 --> 01:05:12,742 THEY TOLD US THAT. 2248 01:05:12,742 --> 01:05:13,843 THEY TOLD YOU THAT? 2249 01:05:13,843 --> 01:05:14,411 YES. 2250 01:05:14,411 --> 01:05:15,679 THIS WAS GONNA BE AN EXAMPLE? 2251 01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:16,046 YES. 2252 01:05:16,046 --> 01:05:17,347 HE WAS GONNA BE MADE AN 2253 01:05:17,347 --> 01:05:17,814 EXAMPLE OF? 2254 01:05:17,814 --> 01:05:19,349 YES. 2255 01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:21,618 STEVE HEYMANN SAID THAT. 2256 01:05:21,618 --> 01:05:22,419 DETERRING WHO? 2257 01:05:22,419 --> 01:05:23,553 LIKE, THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE OUT 2258 01:05:23,553 --> 01:05:24,721 THERE RUNNING AROUND LOGGING ON 2259 01:05:24,721 --> 01:05:25,789 TO JSTOR AND DOWNLOADING THE 2260 01:05:25,789 --> 01:05:26,890 ARTICLES TO MAKE A POLITICAL 2261 01:05:26,890 --> 01:05:27,491 STATEMENT? 2262 01:05:27,491 --> 01:05:29,559 I MEAN, WHO WERE THEY DETERRING? 2263 01:05:29,559 --> 01:05:31,395 IT WOULD BE EASIER TO 2264 01:05:31,395 --> 01:05:32,829 UNDERSTAND THE OBAMA 2265 01:05:32,829 --> 01:05:34,798 ADMINISTRATION'S POSTURE OF 2266 01:05:34,798 --> 01:05:36,967 SUPPOSEDLY BEING FOR DETERRENCE 2267 01:05:36,967 --> 01:05:39,036 IF THIS WAS AN ADMINISTRATION 2268 01:05:39,036 --> 01:05:40,770 THAT, FOR INSTANCE, PROSECUTED 2269 01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:42,472 ARGUABLY THE BIGGEST ECONOMIC 2270 01:05:42,472 --> 01:05:44,008 CRIME THIS COUNTRY HAS SEEN IN 2271 01:05:44,008 --> 01:05:45,609 THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS, THE 2272 01:05:45,609 --> 01:05:47,044 CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED THAT 2273 01:05:47,044 --> 01:05:48,645 LED TO THE FINANCIAL CRISIS ON 2274 01:05:48,645 --> 01:05:49,879 WALL STREET. 2275 01:05:49,879 --> 01:05:53,050 WHEN YOU START DEPLOYING THE 2276 01:05:53,050 --> 01:05:55,485 NON-CONTROVERSIAL IDEA OF 2277 01:05:55,485 --> 01:05:58,155 DETERRENCE, ONLY SELECTIVELY YOU 2278 01:05:58,155 --> 01:06:00,124 STOP MAKING A DISPASSIONATE 2279 01:06:00,124 --> 01:06:02,226 ANALYSIS OF LAW-BREAKING AND 2280 01:06:02,226 --> 01:06:04,128 YOU'VE STARTED DECIDING TO 2281 01:06:04,128 --> 01:06:06,530 DEPLOY LAW-ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES 2282 01:06:06,530 --> 01:06:08,532 SPECIFICALLY ON THE BASIS OF 2283 01:06:08,532 --> 01:06:09,966 POLITICAL IDEOLOGY. 2284 01:06:09,966 --> 01:06:11,768 AND THAT'S NOT JUST 2285 01:06:11,768 --> 01:06:13,003 UNDEMOCRATIC. 2286 01:06:13,003 --> 01:06:18,808 IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE UNAMERICAN. 2287 01:06:18,808 --> 01:06:20,644 PROSECUTOR STEPHEN HEYMANN 2288 01:06:20,644 --> 01:06:22,179 LATER REPORTEDLY TOLD MIT's 2289 01:06:22,179 --> 01:06:24,048 OUTSIDE COUNSEL THAT THE STRAW 2290 01:06:24,048 --> 01:06:25,982 THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK WAS 2291 01:06:25,982 --> 01:06:27,851 A PRESS RELEASE SENT OUT BY AN 2292 01:06:27,851 --> 01:06:29,586 ORGANIZATION SWARTZ FOUNDED 2293 01:06:29,586 --> 01:06:30,954 CALLED DEMAND PROGRESS. 2294 01:06:30,954 --> 01:06:32,789 ACCORDING TO THE MIT ACCOUNT, 2295 01:06:32,789 --> 01:06:34,658 HEYMANN REACTED TO THE SWARTZ 2296 01:06:34,658 --> 01:06:36,593 STATEMENT OF SUPPORT, CALLING IT 2297 01:06:36,593 --> 01:06:38,462 A WILD INTERNET CAMPAIGN AND A 2298 01:06:38,462 --> 01:06:40,197 FOOLISH MOVE THAT MOVED THE CASE 2299 01:06:40,197 --> 01:06:42,166 FROM A HUMAN ONE-ON-ONE LEVEL TO 2300 01:06:42,166 --> 01:06:43,733 AN INSTITUTIONAL LEVEL. 2301 01:06:43,733 --> 01:06:44,868 THAT WAS A POISONOUS 2302 01:06:44,868 --> 01:06:46,470 COMBINATION -- A PROSECUTOR WHO 2303 01:06:46,470 --> 01:06:47,771 DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE FACE, WHO 2304 01:06:47,771 --> 01:06:49,106 HAD A POLITICAL CAREER IN THE 2305 01:06:49,106 --> 01:06:50,707 OFFING MAYBE AND DIDN'T WANT TO 2306 01:06:50,707 --> 01:06:52,042 HAVE THIS COME BACK AND HAUNT 2307 01:06:52,042 --> 01:06:52,542 HIM. 2308 01:06:52,542 --> 01:06:53,910 YOU SPENT HOW MANY TAX DOLLARS 2309 01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:55,512 ARRESTING SOMEONE FOR TAKING TOO 2310 01:06:55,512 --> 01:06:56,846 MANY BOOKS OUT OF THE LIBRARY 2311 01:06:56,846 --> 01:06:58,448 AND THEN GOT YOUR ASS HANDED TO 2312 01:06:58,448 --> 01:06:59,049 YOU IN COURT? 2313 01:06:59,049 --> 01:07:00,884 NO WAY. 2314 01:07:00,884 --> 01:07:02,552 I THEN MOVED TO TRY TO PUT 2315 01:07:02,552 --> 01:07:04,121 PRESSURE ON MIT IN VARIOUS WAYS 2316 01:07:04,121 --> 01:07:05,589 TO GET THEM TO GO TO THE 2317 01:07:05,589 --> 01:07:06,956 GOVERNMENT AND REQUEST THE 2318 01:07:06,956 --> 01:07:09,025 GOVERNMENT TO STOP THE 2319 01:07:09,025 --> 01:07:10,527 PROSECUTION. 2320 01:07:10,527 --> 01:07:12,596 WHAT WAS MIT's REACTION TO 2321 01:07:12,596 --> 01:07:14,131 THAT? 2322 01:07:14,131 --> 01:07:15,699 THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY 2323 01:07:15,699 --> 01:07:22,172 REACTION FROM MIT AT THAT POINT. 2324 01:07:22,172 --> 01:07:24,841 MIT DOESN'T DEFEND AARON, 2325 01:07:24,841 --> 01:07:27,611 WHICH, TO PEOPLE INSIDE OF THE 2326 01:07:27,611 --> 01:07:30,514 MIT COMMUNITY, SEEMS OUTRAGEOUS, 2327 01:07:30,514 --> 01:07:32,916 BECAUSE MIT IS A PLACE THAT 2328 01:07:32,916 --> 01:07:34,151 ENCOURAGES HACKING IN THE 2329 01:07:34,151 --> 01:07:35,685 BIGGEST SENSE OF THE WORLD. 2330 01:07:35,685 --> 01:07:37,154 AT MIT, THE IDEA OF GOING AND 2331 01:07:37,154 --> 01:07:38,655 RUNNING AROUND ON ROOFS AND 2332 01:07:38,655 --> 01:07:40,157 TUNNELS THAT YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED 2333 01:07:40,157 --> 01:07:42,526 TO BE IN WAS NOT ONLY A RITE OF 2334 01:07:42,526 --> 01:07:43,160 PASSAGE. 2335 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,695 IT WAS PART OF THE MIT TOUR. 2336 01:07:45,695 --> 01:07:48,565 AND LOCK-PICKING WAS A WINTER 2337 01:07:48,565 --> 01:07:50,033 COURSE AT MIT. 2338 01:07:50,033 --> 01:07:53,603 THEY HAD THE MORAL AUTHORITY 2339 01:07:53,603 --> 01:07:55,672 TO STOP IT IN ITS TRACKS. 2340 01:07:55,672 --> 01:07:58,142 MIT NEVER STOOD UP AND TOOK A 2341 01:07:58,142 --> 01:08:00,644 POSITION SAYING TO THE FEDS, 2342 01:08:00,644 --> 01:08:02,112 "DON'T DO THIS. 2343 01:08:02,112 --> 01:08:03,780 WE DON'T WANT YOU TO DO THIS. 2344 01:08:03,780 --> 01:08:04,914 YOU'RE OVERREACTING. 2345 01:08:04,914 --> 01:08:06,583 THIS IS TOO STRONG," THAT I'M 2346 01:08:06,583 --> 01:08:07,784 AWARE OF. 2347 01:08:07,784 --> 01:08:09,619 THEY ACTED KIND OF LIKE ANY 2348 01:08:09,619 --> 01:08:10,854 CORPORATION WOULD. 2349 01:08:10,854 --> 01:08:12,889 THEY SORT OF -- THEY HELPED THE 2350 01:08:12,889 --> 01:08:13,823 GOVERNMENT. 2351 01:08:13,823 --> 01:08:15,859 THEY DIDN'T HELP US UNLESS THEY 2352 01:08:15,859 --> 01:08:17,060 FELT THEY HAD TO. 2353 01:08:17,060 --> 01:08:21,565 AND THEY NEVER TRIED TO STOP IT. 2354 01:08:21,565 --> 01:08:22,932 MIT DECLINED REPEATED 2355 01:08:22,932 --> 01:08:24,668 REQUESTS TO COMMENT, BUT THEY 2356 01:08:24,668 --> 01:08:26,270 LATER RELEASED A REPORT SAYING 2357 01:08:26,270 --> 01:08:27,971 THEY ATTEMPTED TO MAINTAIN A 2358 01:08:27,971 --> 01:08:29,606 POSITION OF NEUTRALITY AND 2359 01:08:29,606 --> 01:08:31,175 BELIEVED HEYMANN AND THE U.S. 2360 01:08:31,175 --> 01:08:32,942 ATTORNEYS OFFICE DID NOT CARE 2361 01:08:32,942 --> 01:08:34,711 WHAT MIT THOUGHT OR SAID ABOUT 2362 01:08:34,711 --> 01:08:35,279 THE CASE. 2363 01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:38,148 MIT's BEHAVIOR SEEMED REALLY 2364 01:08:38,148 --> 01:08:40,750 AT ODDS WITH THE MIT ETHOS, 2365 01:08:40,750 --> 01:08:41,651 RIGHT? 2366 01:08:41,651 --> 01:08:43,287 YOU COULD ARGUE THAT MIT TURNED 2367 01:08:43,287 --> 01:08:45,054 A BLIND EYE AND THAT WAS OKAY 2368 01:08:45,054 --> 01:08:46,022 FOR THEM TO DO. 2369 01:08:46,022 --> 01:08:47,857 BUT TAKING THAT STANCE, TAKING 2370 01:08:47,857 --> 01:08:49,626 THAT NEUTRAL STANCE IN AND OF 2371 01:08:49,626 --> 01:08:50,794 ITSELF WAS TAKING A 2372 01:08:50,794 --> 01:08:52,061 PRO-PROSECUTOR STANCE. 2373 01:08:52,061 --> 01:08:53,930 IF YOU LOOK AT STEVE JOBS AND 2374 01:08:53,930 --> 01:08:55,999 STEVE WOZNIAK, THEY STARTED BY 2375 01:08:55,999 --> 01:08:58,168 SELLING A BLUE BOX, WHICH WAS A 2376 01:08:58,168 --> 01:09:00,270 THING DESIGNED TO DEFRAUD THE 2377 01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:01,405 PHONE COMPANY. 2378 01:09:01,405 --> 01:09:03,373 IF YOU LOOK AT BILL GATES AND 2379 01:09:03,373 --> 01:09:05,175 PAUL ALLEN, THEY INITIALLY 2380 01:09:05,175 --> 01:09:06,676 STARTED THEIR BUSINESS BY USING 2381 01:09:06,676 --> 01:09:07,877 COMPUTER TIME AT HARVARD, WHICH 2382 01:09:07,877 --> 01:09:09,145 WAS PRETTY CLEARLY AGAINST THE 2383 01:09:09,145 --> 01:09:09,679 RULES. 2384 01:09:09,679 --> 01:09:11,014 DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AARON AND THE 2385 01:09:11,014 --> 01:09:12,282 PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED IS THAT 2386 01:09:12,282 --> 01:09:13,817 AARON WANTED TO MAKE THE WORLD A 2387 01:09:13,817 --> 01:09:14,351 BETTER PLACE. 2388 01:09:14,351 --> 01:09:15,719 HE DIDN'T JUST WANT TO MAKE 2389 01:09:15,719 --> 01:09:18,355 MONEY. 2390 01:09:18,355 --> 01:09:19,989 SWARTZ CONTINUES TO BE 2391 01:09:19,989 --> 01:09:21,625 OUTSPOKEN ON A VARIETY OF 2392 01:09:21,625 --> 01:09:22,692 INTERNET ISSUES. 2393 01:09:22,692 --> 01:09:24,194 YOU KNOW, THE REASON THE 2394 01:09:24,194 --> 01:09:26,129 INTERNET WORKS IS BECAUSE OF THE 2395 01:09:26,129 --> 01:09:27,797 COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE OF 2396 01:09:27,797 --> 01:09:28,232 IDEAS. 2397 01:09:28,232 --> 01:09:29,733 AND WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING 2398 01:09:29,733 --> 01:09:31,034 ON IS GETTING MORE INFORMATION 2399 01:09:31,034 --> 01:09:32,236 ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT, MORE 2400 01:09:32,236 --> 01:09:33,770 ACCESSIBILITY, MORE DISCUSSION, 2401 01:09:33,770 --> 01:09:34,304 MORE DEBATE. 2402 01:09:34,304 --> 01:09:35,839 BUT INSTEAD, IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT 2403 01:09:35,839 --> 01:09:36,973 CONGRESS IS FOCUSED ON IS 2404 01:09:36,973 --> 01:09:38,007 SHUTTING THINGS DOWN. 2405 01:09:38,007 --> 01:09:40,043 AARON THOUGHT HE COULD CHANGE 2406 01:09:40,043 --> 01:09:42,111 THE WORLD JUST BY EXPLAINING THE 2407 01:09:42,111 --> 01:09:44,113 WORLD VERY CLEARLY TO PEOPLE. 2408 01:09:44,113 --> 01:09:45,782 FLAME CAN LITERALLY CONTROL 2409 01:09:45,782 --> 01:09:47,351 YOUR COMPUTER AND MAKE IT SPY ON 2410 01:09:47,351 --> 01:09:47,884 YOU. 2411 01:09:47,884 --> 01:09:48,818 WELCOME, AARON. 2412 01:09:48,818 --> 01:09:50,220 GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK ON THE 2413 01:09:50,220 --> 01:09:50,954 SHOW HERE. 2414 01:09:50,954 --> 01:09:52,389 YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE SPIES 2415 01:09:52,389 --> 01:09:53,923 USED TO IN OLDEN DAYS WITH 2416 01:09:53,923 --> 01:09:55,659 MICROPHONES AND TAP WHAT PEOPLE 2417 01:09:55,659 --> 01:09:57,126 WERE SAYING, NOW THEY'RE USING 2418 01:09:57,126 --> 01:09:58,895 COMPUTERS TO DO THE SAME THINGS. 2419 01:09:58,895 --> 01:10:00,397 SWARTZ'S POLITICAL ACTIVITY 2420 01:10:00,397 --> 01:10:02,165 CONTINUES, HIS ATTENTION TURNING 2421 01:10:02,165 --> 01:10:03,667 TO A BILL MOVING THROUGH 2422 01:10:03,667 --> 01:10:05,201 CONGRESS DESIGNED TO CURB ONLINE 2423 01:10:05,201 --> 01:10:06,270 PIRACY. 2424 01:10:06,270 --> 01:10:08,405 IT WAS CALLED SOPA. 2425 01:10:08,405 --> 01:10:09,639 ACTIVISTS LIKE 2426 01:10:09,639 --> 01:10:11,107 PETER ECKERSLEY SAW IT AS AN 2427 01:10:11,107 --> 01:10:12,842 ENORMOUS OVERREACH THREATENING 2428 01:10:12,842 --> 01:10:14,378 THE TECHNICAL INTEGRITY OF THE 2429 01:10:14,378 --> 01:10:15,379 INTERNET ITSELF. 2430 01:10:15,379 --> 01:10:17,080 AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I 2431 01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:18,682 DID WAS TO CALL AARON, AND I 2432 01:10:18,682 --> 01:10:20,083 SAID, "CAN WE DO A BIG ONLINE 2433 01:10:20,083 --> 01:10:21,785 CAMPAIGN AGAINST THIS?" 2434 01:10:21,785 --> 01:10:23,687 "THIS ISN'T A BILL ABOUT 2435 01:10:23,687 --> 01:10:24,654 COPYRIGHT." 2436 01:10:24,654 --> 01:10:25,322 IT'S NOT? 2437 01:10:25,322 --> 01:10:26,656 "NO," HE SAID. 2438 01:10:26,656 --> 01:10:28,792 "IT'S A BILL ABOUT THE FREEDOM 2439 01:10:28,792 --> 01:10:29,826 TO CONNECT." 2440 01:10:29,826 --> 01:10:31,928 NOW I WAS LISTENING. 2441 01:10:31,928 --> 01:10:33,697 AND HE THOUGHT ABOUT IT FOR A 2442 01:10:33,697 --> 01:10:35,198 WHILE AND THEN SAID YES, AND HE 2443 01:10:35,198 --> 01:10:36,165 WENT AND FOUNDED 2444 01:10:36,165 --> 01:10:37,133 DEMAND PROGRESS. 2445 01:10:37,133 --> 01:10:38,835 DEMAND PROGRESS IS AN ONLINE 2446 01:10:38,835 --> 01:10:40,404 ACTIVISM ORGANIZATION. 2447 01:10:40,404 --> 01:10:42,439 WE GOT AROUND A MILLION AND A 2448 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:43,873 HALF MEMBERS NOW. 2449 01:10:43,873 --> 01:10:47,076 IT STARTED IN THE FALL OF 2010. 2450 01:10:47,076 --> 01:10:48,312 AARON WAS ONE OF THE MOST 2451 01:10:48,312 --> 01:10:49,679 PROMINENT PEOPLE IN THE 2452 01:10:49,679 --> 01:10:51,114 COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO HELPED 2453 01:10:51,114 --> 01:10:52,248 LEAD ORGANIZING AROUND 2454 01:10:52,248 --> 01:10:53,817 SOCIAL-JUSTICE ISSUES AT THE 2455 01:10:53,817 --> 01:10:55,218 FEDERAL LEVEL IN THIS COUNTRY. 2456 01:10:55,218 --> 01:10:57,153 SOPA WAS THE BILL THAT WAS 2457 01:10:57,153 --> 01:10:58,955 INTENDED TO CURTAIL ONLINE 2458 01:10:58,955 --> 01:11:01,090 PIRACY OF MUSIC AND MOVIES, BUT 2459 01:11:01,090 --> 01:11:03,159 WHAT IT DID WAS BASICALLY TAKE A 2460 01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:05,161 SLEDGEHAMMER TO A PROBLEM THAT 2461 01:11:05,161 --> 01:11:06,930 NEEDED A SCALPEL. 2462 01:11:06,930 --> 01:11:08,465 IF PASSED, THE LAW WOULD 2463 01:11:08,465 --> 01:11:10,199 ALLOW A COMPANY TO CUT OFF 2464 01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:11,968 FINANCES TO ENTIRE WEBSITES 2465 01:11:11,968 --> 01:11:13,870 WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OR EVEN TO 2466 01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:15,739 FORCE GOOGLE TO EXCLUDE THEIR 2467 01:11:15,739 --> 01:11:16,205 LINKS. 2468 01:11:16,205 --> 01:11:18,041 ALL THEY NEEDED WAS A SINGLE 2469 01:11:18,041 --> 01:11:20,344 CLAIM OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. 2470 01:11:20,344 --> 01:11:21,778 IT PITTED THE TITANS OF 2471 01:11:21,778 --> 01:11:23,279 TRADITIONAL MEDIA AGAINST A NEW 2472 01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:24,981 AND NOW FAR MORE SOPHISTICATED 2473 01:11:24,981 --> 01:11:26,383 REMIX CULTURE. 2474 01:11:26,383 --> 01:11:27,984 IT MAKES EVERYONE WHO RUNS A 2475 01:11:27,984 --> 01:11:29,453 WEBSITE INTO A POLICEMAN, AND IF 2476 01:11:29,453 --> 01:11:30,887 THEY DON'T DO THEIR JOB OF 2477 01:11:30,887 --> 01:11:32,356 MAKING SURE NOBODY ON THEIR SITE 2478 01:11:32,356 --> 01:11:33,990 USES IT FOR ANYTHING THAT'S EVEN 2479 01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:35,459 POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL, THE ENTIRE 2480 01:11:35,459 --> 01:11:37,026 SITE CAN GET SHUT DOWN WITHOUT 2481 01:11:37,026 --> 01:11:38,227 EVEN SO MUCH AS A TRIAL. 2482 01:11:38,227 --> 01:11:39,429 THIS WAS OVER THE TOP. 2483 01:11:39,429 --> 01:11:43,467 I MEAN, THIS WAS A CATASTROPHE. 2484 01:11:43,467 --> 01:11:45,902 THIS BILL POSES A SERIOUS 2485 01:11:45,902 --> 01:11:48,004 THREAT TO SPEECH AND CIVIL 2486 01:11:48,004 --> 01:11:50,239 LIBERTIES FOR ALL WHO USE THE 2487 01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:51,174 INTERNET. 2488 01:11:51,174 --> 01:11:53,076 ONLY A HANDFUL OF US WHO SAID, 2489 01:11:53,076 --> 01:11:54,878 "LOOK, WE'RE NOT FOR PIRACY, 2490 01:11:54,878 --> 01:11:56,880 EITHER, BUT IT MAKES NO SENSE TO 2491 01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:58,815 DESTROY THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE 2492 01:11:58,815 --> 01:12:00,384 INTERNET, THE DOMAIN-NAME 2493 01:12:00,384 --> 01:12:02,285 SYSTEM, AND SO MUCH THAT MAKES 2494 01:12:02,285 --> 01:12:04,220 IT FREE AND OPEN IN THE NAME OF 2495 01:12:04,220 --> 01:12:06,022 FIGHTING PIRACY. 2496 01:12:06,022 --> 01:12:07,323 AND AARON GOT THAT RIGHT AWAY. 2497 01:12:07,323 --> 01:12:08,558 THE FREEDOMS GUARANTEED IN 2498 01:12:08,558 --> 01:12:10,059 OUR CONSTITUTION, THE FREEDOMS 2499 01:12:10,059 --> 01:12:11,327 OUR COUNTRY HAD BEEN BUILT ON 2500 01:12:11,327 --> 01:12:13,997 WOULD BE SUDDENLY DELETED. 2501 01:12:13,997 --> 01:12:15,164 NEW TECHNOLOGY INSTEAD OF 2502 01:12:15,164 --> 01:12:16,366 BRINGING US GREATER FREEDOM 2503 01:12:16,366 --> 01:12:17,434 WOULD HAVE SNUFFED OUT 2504 01:12:17,434 --> 01:12:18,968 FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS WE'D ALWAYS 2505 01:12:18,968 --> 01:12:20,470 TAKEN FOR GRANTED. 2506 01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:23,239 AND I REALIZED THAT DAY TALKING 2507 01:12:23,239 --> 01:12:25,875 TO PETER THAT I COULDN'T LET 2508 01:12:25,875 --> 01:12:28,111 THAT HAPPEN. 2509 01:12:28,111 --> 01:12:30,013 WHEN SOPA WAS INTRODUCED IN 2510 01:12:30,013 --> 01:12:31,948 OCTOBER 2011, IT WAS CONSIDERED 2511 01:12:31,948 --> 01:12:32,816 INEVITABLE. 2512 01:12:32,816 --> 01:12:34,551 OUR STRATEGY WHEN IT FIRST CAME 2513 01:12:34,551 --> 01:12:36,420 OUT WAS TO HOPEFULLY SLOW THE 2514 01:12:36,420 --> 01:12:38,788 BILL DOWN, MAYBE WEAKEN IT A 2515 01:12:38,788 --> 01:12:39,823 LITTLE BIT. 2516 01:12:39,823 --> 01:12:42,826 BUT EVEN WE DIDN'T THINK THAT WE 2517 01:12:42,826 --> 01:12:45,328 WOULD BE ABLE TO STOP THIS BILL. 2518 01:12:45,328 --> 01:12:47,897 HAVING WORKED IN WASHINGTON, 2519 01:12:47,897 --> 01:12:50,299 WHAT YOU LEARN IS THAT TYPICALLY 2520 01:12:50,299 --> 01:12:52,602 IN WASHINGTON, THE LEGISLATIVE 2521 01:12:52,602 --> 01:12:54,838 FIGHTS ARE FIGHTS BETWEEN 2522 01:12:54,838 --> 01:12:56,172 DIFFERENT SETS OF CORPORATE 2523 01:12:56,172 --> 01:12:57,140 MONEY INTERESTS. 2524 01:12:57,140 --> 01:12:58,508 THEY'RE ALL DUKING IT OUT TO 2525 01:12:58,508 --> 01:12:59,509 PASS LEGISLATION. 2526 01:12:59,509 --> 01:13:01,144 AND THE FIGHTS THAT ARE THE 2527 01:13:01,144 --> 01:13:02,579 CLOSEST ARE WHEN YOU HAVE ONE 2528 01:13:02,579 --> 01:13:04,113 SET OF CORPORATE INTERESTS 2529 01:13:04,113 --> 01:13:05,649 AGAINST ANOTHER SET OF CORPORATE 2530 01:13:05,649 --> 01:13:06,983 INTERESTS AND THEY'RE 2531 01:13:06,983 --> 01:13:08,384 FINANCIALLY EQUALLY MATCHED IN 2532 01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:10,086 TERMS OF CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS 2533 01:13:10,086 --> 01:13:10,954 AND LOBBYING. 2534 01:13:10,954 --> 01:13:12,456 THOSE ARE THE CLOSEST ONES. 2535 01:13:12,456 --> 01:13:14,390 THE ONES THAT AREN'T EVEN FIGHTS 2536 01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:16,325 TYPICALLY ARE ONES WHERE ALL THE 2537 01:13:16,325 --> 01:13:18,094 MONEY IS ON ONE SIDE, ALL THE 2538 01:13:18,094 --> 01:13:19,896 CORPORATIONS ARE ON ONE SIDE, 2539 01:13:19,896 --> 01:13:21,598 AND IT'S JUST MILLIONS OF PEOPLE 2540 01:13:21,598 --> 01:13:24,333 ON THE OTHER SIDE. 2541 01:13:24,333 --> 01:13:26,636 HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE 2542 01:13:26,636 --> 01:13:29,238 PIPA AND SOPA IN ALL MY TIME IN 2543 01:13:29,238 --> 01:13:30,507 PUBLIC SERVICE. 2544 01:13:30,507 --> 01:13:32,476 THERE WERE MORE THAN 40 2545 01:13:32,476 --> 01:13:35,111 UNITED STATES SENATORS ON THAT 2546 01:13:35,111 --> 01:13:37,447 BILL AS CO-SPONSORS, SO THEY 2547 01:13:37,447 --> 01:13:39,583 WERE ALREADY A LONG, LONG WAY TO 2548 01:13:39,583 --> 01:13:41,885 GETTING THE 60 VOTES TO HAVE IT 2549 01:13:41,885 --> 01:13:43,987 CLEAR ALL THE PROCEDURAL HOOPS. 2550 01:13:43,987 --> 01:13:46,022 EVEN I BEGAN TO DOUBT MYSELF. 2551 01:13:46,022 --> 01:13:47,390 IT WAS A ROUGH PERIOD. 2552 01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:49,325 SWARTZ AND DEMAND PROGRESS 2553 01:13:49,325 --> 01:13:51,194 WERE ABLE TO MARSHAL ENORMOUS 2554 01:13:51,194 --> 01:13:52,929 SUPPORT USING TRADITIONAL 2555 01:13:52,929 --> 01:13:54,898 OUTREACH COMBINED WITH COMMONLY 2556 01:13:54,898 --> 01:13:56,633 USED VOICEOVER I.P. TO MAKE IT 2557 01:13:56,633 --> 01:13:58,468 VERY EASY FOR PEOPLE TO CALL 2558 01:13:58,468 --> 01:13:59,302 CONGRESS. 2559 01:13:59,302 --> 01:14:01,404 I HAVE NEVER MET ANYBODY ELSE 2560 01:14:01,404 --> 01:14:03,339 WHO WAS ABLE TO OPERATE AT HIS 2561 01:14:03,339 --> 01:14:05,274 LEVEL BOTH ON THE TECHNOLOGICAL 2562 01:14:05,274 --> 01:14:06,342 SIDE AND ON THE 2563 01:14:06,342 --> 01:14:07,911 CAMPAIGN-STRATEGY SIDE. 2564 01:14:07,911 --> 01:14:09,913 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE CONTACTED 2565 01:14:09,913 --> 01:14:11,581 CONGRESS AND SIGNED ANTI-SOPA 2566 01:14:11,581 --> 01:14:12,448 PETITIONS. 2567 01:14:12,448 --> 01:14:15,118 CONGRESS WAS CAUGHT OFF GUARD. 2568 01:14:15,118 --> 01:14:16,319 THERE WAS JUST SOMETHING 2569 01:14:16,319 --> 01:14:17,587 ABOUT WATCHING THOSE CLUELESS 2570 01:14:17,587 --> 01:14:19,122 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS DEBATE THE 2571 01:14:19,122 --> 01:14:20,456 BILL, WATCHING THEM INSIST THEY 2572 01:14:20,456 --> 01:14:22,025 COULD REGULATE THE INTERNET AND 2573 01:14:22,025 --> 01:14:23,159 A BUNCH OF NERDS COULDN'T 2574 01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:24,494 POSSIBLY STOP THEM. 2575 01:14:24,928 --> 01:14:25,629 I AM NOT A NERD. 2576 01:14:25,629 --> 01:14:26,963 I'M JUST NOT ENOUGH OF A 2577 01:14:26,963 --> 01:14:27,263 NERD. 2578 01:14:27,263 --> 01:14:28,464 MAYBE WE OUGHT TO ASK SOME 2579 01:14:28,464 --> 01:14:29,633 NERDS WHAT THIS THING REALLY 2580 01:14:29,633 --> 01:14:30,133 DOES. 2581 01:14:30,133 --> 01:14:30,634 [ LAUGHTER ] 2582 01:14:30,634 --> 01:14:32,068 LET'S HAVE A HEARING, BRING IN 2583 01:14:32,068 --> 01:14:33,570 THE NERDS. 2584 01:14:33,570 --> 01:14:35,304 [ LAUGHTER ] 2585 01:14:35,304 --> 01:14:39,342 REALLY? 2586 01:14:39,342 --> 01:14:41,344 NERDS? 2587 01:14:41,344 --> 01:14:42,679 YOU KNOW, I THINK ACTUALLY THE 2588 01:14:42,679 --> 01:14:44,113 WORD YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS 2589 01:14:44,113 --> 01:14:45,181 "EXPERTS"... 2590 01:14:45,181 --> 01:14:46,249 [ LAUGHTER ] 2591 01:14:46,249 --> 01:14:49,218 ...TO ENLIGHTEN YOU SO YOUR LAWS 2592 01:14:49,218 --> 01:14:51,621 DON'T BACKFIRE AND BREAK THE 2593 01:14:51,621 --> 01:14:52,689 INTERNET. 2594 01:14:52,689 --> 01:14:54,323 WE USE THE TERM "GEEK," BUT 2595 01:14:54,323 --> 01:14:55,525 WE'RE ALLOWED TO USE THAT 2596 01:14:55,525 --> 01:14:56,593 BECAUSE WE ARE GEEKS. 2597 01:14:56,593 --> 01:14:58,194 THE FACT THAT IT GOT AS FAR AS 2598 01:14:58,194 --> 01:14:59,963 IT DID WITHOUT THEM TALKING TO 2599 01:14:59,963 --> 01:15:01,565 ANY TECHNICAL EXPERTS REFLECTS 2600 01:15:01,565 --> 01:15:03,099 THE FACT THAT THERE IS A 2601 01:15:03,099 --> 01:15:04,300 PROBLEM IN THIS TOWN. 2602 01:15:04,300 --> 01:15:06,069 I'M LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO 2603 01:15:06,069 --> 01:15:08,137 COME BEFORE THIS BODY AND 2604 01:15:08,137 --> 01:15:10,540 TESTIFY IN A HEARING AND SAY, 2605 01:15:10,540 --> 01:15:11,975 "THIS IS WHY THEY'RE WRONG." 2606 01:15:11,975 --> 01:15:13,176 THERE USED TO BE AN OFFICE 2607 01:15:13,176 --> 01:15:14,310 THAT PROVIDED SCIENCE AND 2608 01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:16,145 TECHNOLOGY ADVICE, AND MEMBERS 2609 01:15:16,145 --> 01:15:18,014 COULD GO TO THEM AND SAY, "HELP 2610 01:15:18,014 --> 01:15:19,182 ME UNDERSTAND XYZ." 2611 01:15:19,182 --> 01:15:20,349 AND GINGRICH KILLED IT. 2612 01:15:20,349 --> 01:15:21,985 HE SAID IT WAS A WASTE OF MONEY. 2613 01:15:21,985 --> 01:15:23,352 EVER SINCE THEN, CONGRESS HAS 2614 01:15:23,352 --> 01:15:25,054 PLUNGED INTO THE DARK AGES. 2615 01:15:25,054 --> 01:15:26,723 I DON'T THINK ANYBODY REALLY 2616 01:15:26,723 --> 01:15:28,424 THOUGHT THAT SOPA COULD BE 2617 01:15:28,424 --> 01:15:29,993 BEATEN, INCLUDING AARON. 2618 01:15:29,993 --> 01:15:32,095 IT WAS WORTH TRYING, BUT IT 2619 01:15:32,095 --> 01:15:33,697 DIDN'T SEEM WINNABLE. 2620 01:15:33,697 --> 01:15:35,131 AND I REMEMBER MAYBE A FEW 2621 01:15:35,131 --> 01:15:36,432 MONTHS LATER, I REMEMBER HIM 2622 01:15:36,432 --> 01:15:37,767 JUST TURNING TO ME AND BEING 2623 01:15:37,767 --> 01:15:39,235 LIKE, "I THINK WE MIGHT WIN 2624 01:15:39,235 --> 01:15:39,603 THIS." 2625 01:15:39,603 --> 01:15:41,170 AND I WAS LIKE, "THAT WOULD BE 2626 01:15:41,170 --> 01:15:41,638 AMAZING." 2627 01:15:41,638 --> 01:15:43,573 [ CHUCKLES ] 2628 01:15:43,573 --> 01:15:46,209 CALLS TO CONGRESS CONTINUE. 2629 01:15:46,209 --> 01:15:47,977 WHEN THE DOMAIN HOSTING SITE 2630 01:15:47,977 --> 01:15:49,646 GoDaddy BECOMES A SUPPORTER OF 2631 01:15:49,646 --> 01:15:51,547 THE BILL, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF 2632 01:15:51,547 --> 01:15:53,416 USERS TRANSFERRED THEIR DOMAIN 2633 01:15:53,416 --> 01:15:54,550 NAMES IN PROTEST. 2634 01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:57,053 WITHIN A WEEK, A HUMBLED GoDaddy 2635 01:15:57,053 --> 01:15:59,355 REVERSES THEIR POSITION ON SOPA. 2636 01:15:59,355 --> 01:16:02,558 WHEN THE CONGRESS PEOPLE THAT 2637 01:16:02,558 --> 01:16:04,193 SUPPORTED THE RECORD AND MOVIE 2638 01:16:04,193 --> 01:16:05,595 INDUSTRIES REALIZE THAT THERE 2639 01:16:05,595 --> 01:16:07,263 WAS THIS BACKLASH, THEY KIND OF 2640 01:16:07,263 --> 01:16:08,564 SCALED THE BILL BACK A LITTLE 2641 01:16:08,564 --> 01:16:09,098 BIT. 2642 01:16:09,098 --> 01:16:10,366 YOU COULD SEE THE CURVE 2643 01:16:10,366 --> 01:16:11,100 HAPPENING. 2644 01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:12,501 YOU COULD SEE THAT WE WERE -- 2645 01:16:12,501 --> 01:16:14,070 THAT OUR ARGUMENTS WERE STARTING 2646 01:16:14,070 --> 01:16:14,604 TO RESONATE. 2647 01:16:14,604 --> 01:16:16,072 IT WAS LIKE AARON HAD BEEN 2648 01:16:16,072 --> 01:16:17,273 STRIKING A MATCH AND IT WAS 2649 01:16:17,273 --> 01:16:18,141 BEING BLOWN OUT. 2650 01:16:18,141 --> 01:16:19,508 STRIKE ANOTHER ONE, IT WAS BEING 2651 01:16:19,508 --> 01:16:20,176 BLOWN OUT. 2652 01:16:20,176 --> 01:16:21,444 AND FINALLY, HE, LIKE, MANAGED 2653 01:16:21,444 --> 01:16:22,712 TO CATCH ENOUGH KINDLING THAT 2654 01:16:22,712 --> 01:16:24,180 THE FLAME ACTUALLY CAUGHT AND 2655 01:16:24,180 --> 01:16:25,448 THEN TURNED INTO THIS ROARING 2656 01:16:25,448 --> 01:16:26,482 BLAZE. 2657 01:16:26,482 --> 01:16:29,753 ON JANUARY 16, 2012, THE 2658 01:16:29,753 --> 01:16:31,454 WHITE HOUSE ISSUED A STATEMENT 2659 01:16:31,454 --> 01:16:33,122 SAYING THEY DIDN'T SUPPORT THE 2660 01:16:33,122 --> 01:16:33,489 BILL. 2661 01:16:33,489 --> 01:16:35,659 AND THEN THIS HAPPENED. 2662 01:16:35,659 --> 01:16:37,226 I'M A BIG BELIEVER THAT WE 2663 01:16:37,226 --> 01:16:38,695 SHOULD BE DEALING WITH ISSUES OF 2664 01:16:38,695 --> 01:16:40,296 PIRACY AND WE SHOULD DEAL WITH 2665 01:16:40,296 --> 01:16:41,430 THEM IN A SERIOUS WAY. 2666 01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:42,165 MM-HMM. 2667 01:16:42,165 --> 01:16:43,466 BUT THIS BILL IS NOT THE 2668 01:16:43,466 --> 01:16:44,200 RIGHT BILL. 2669 01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:45,835 WHEN JIMMY WALES PUT HIS 2670 01:16:45,835 --> 01:16:47,737 SUPPORT TOWARDS BLACKING OUT 2671 01:16:47,737 --> 01:16:50,239 WIKIPEDIA, THE NUMBER-FIVE MOST 2672 01:16:50,239 --> 01:16:52,475 POPULAR WEBSITE IN THE WORLD -- 2673 01:16:52,475 --> 01:16:54,543 THIS IS A WEBSITE THAT'S SEVERAL 2674 01:16:54,543 --> 01:16:56,545 PERCENT OF ALL OF THE CLICKS ON 2675 01:16:56,545 --> 01:16:58,281 ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET. 2676 01:16:58,281 --> 01:16:59,783 WIKIPEDIA WENT BLACK. 2677 01:16:59,783 --> 01:17:01,317 REDDIT WENT BLACK. 2678 01:17:01,317 --> 01:17:02,719 CRAIGSLIST WENT BLACK. 2679 01:17:02,719 --> 01:17:04,420 THE PHONE LINES ON CAPITOL HILL 2680 01:17:04,420 --> 01:17:05,354 FLAT-OUT MELTED. 2681 01:17:05,354 --> 01:17:06,690 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS STARTED 2682 01:17:06,690 --> 01:17:08,224 RUSHING TO ISSUE STATEMENTS 2683 01:17:08,224 --> 01:17:09,759 RETRACTING THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE 2684 01:17:09,759 --> 01:17:11,360 BILL THAT THEY WERE PROMOTING 2685 01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:12,696 JUST A COUPLE DAYS AGO. 2686 01:17:13,129 --> 01:17:15,264 WITHIN 24 HOURS, THE NUMBER 2687 01:17:15,264 --> 01:17:17,533 OF OPPONENTS OF SOPA IN CONGRESS 2688 01:17:17,533 --> 01:17:19,368 WENT FROM THIS... 2689 01:17:19,368 --> 01:17:22,338 TO THIS. 2690 01:17:22,338 --> 01:17:24,841 TO SEE CONGRESSMEN AND 2691 01:17:24,841 --> 01:17:26,575 SENATORS SLOWLY FLIP SIDES 2692 01:17:26,575 --> 01:17:28,277 THROUGHOUT THE DAY OF THE 2693 01:17:28,277 --> 01:17:29,512 BLACKOUT WAS PRETTY 2694 01:17:29,512 --> 01:17:30,446 UNBELIEVABLE. 2695 01:17:30,446 --> 01:17:31,547 THERE WAS LIKE A 2696 01:17:31,547 --> 01:17:33,717 100-REPRESENTATIVE SWING. 2697 01:17:33,717 --> 01:17:35,618 AND THAT WAS WHEN, AS HARD AS 2698 01:17:35,618 --> 01:17:37,453 IT WAS FOR ME TO BELIEVE AFTER 2699 01:17:37,453 --> 01:17:40,189 ALL THIS, WE HAD WON. 2700 01:17:40,189 --> 01:17:41,490 THE THING THAT EVERYONE SAID WAS 2701 01:17:41,490 --> 01:17:42,658 IMPOSSIBLE, THAT SOME OF THE 2702 01:17:42,658 --> 01:17:43,893 BIGGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD 2703 01:17:43,893 --> 01:17:45,261 HAD WRITTEN OFF AS KIND OF A 2704 01:17:45,261 --> 01:17:48,331 PIPE DREAM HAD HAPPENED. 2705 01:17:48,331 --> 01:17:50,566 WE DID IT. 2706 01:17:50,566 --> 01:17:54,403 WE WON. 2707 01:17:54,403 --> 01:17:55,839 THIS IS A HISTORIC WEEK IN 2708 01:17:55,839 --> 01:17:57,306 INTERNET POLITICS, MAYBE 2709 01:17:57,306 --> 01:17:58,842 AMERICAN POLITICS. 2710 01:17:58,842 --> 01:18:00,509 THE THING THAT WE HAD FROM 2711 01:18:00,509 --> 01:18:02,345 PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., FROM 2712 01:18:02,345 --> 01:18:04,213 THE STAFFERS ON CAPITOL HILL WAS 2713 01:18:04,213 --> 01:18:05,681 THEY RECEIVED MORE E-MAILS AND 2714 01:18:05,681 --> 01:18:06,950 MORE PHONE CALLS ON SOPA 2715 01:18:06,950 --> 01:18:08,551 BLACKOUT DAY THAN THEY'D EVER 2716 01:18:08,551 --> 01:18:09,853 RECEIVED ABOUT ANYTHING. 2717 01:18:09,853 --> 01:18:11,520 I THINK THAT WAS AN EXTREMELY 2718 01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:12,488 EXCITING MOMENT. 2719 01:18:12,488 --> 01:18:14,690 THIS WAS THE MOMENT WHEN THE 2720 01:18:14,690 --> 01:18:16,459 INTERNET HAD GROWN UP 2721 01:18:16,459 --> 01:18:17,560 POLITICALLY. 2722 01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:18,895 IT WAS EXHILARATING BECAUSE 2723 01:18:18,895 --> 01:18:20,496 IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY 2724 01:18:20,496 --> 01:18:21,164 HAPPENED. 2725 01:18:21,164 --> 01:18:23,266 IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE A BILL WITH 2726 01:18:23,266 --> 01:18:25,268 SO MUCH FINANCIAL POWER BEHIND 2727 01:18:25,268 --> 01:18:27,203 IT DIDN'T SIMPLY SAIL THROUGH 2728 01:18:27,203 --> 01:18:28,237 THE CONGRESS. 2729 01:18:28,237 --> 01:18:29,939 AND NOT ONLY DID IT NOT SAIL 2730 01:18:29,939 --> 01:18:33,409 THROUGH, IT DIDN'T PASS AT ALL. 2731 01:18:33,409 --> 01:18:34,778 IT'S EASY SOMETIMES TO FEEL 2732 01:18:34,778 --> 01:18:35,879 LIKE YOU'RE POWERLESS. 2733 01:18:35,879 --> 01:18:37,446 LIKE, WHEN YOU COME OUT ON THE 2734 01:18:37,446 --> 01:18:38,748 STREETS AND YOU MARCH AND YOU 2735 01:18:38,748 --> 01:18:40,149 YELL AND NOBODY HEARS YOU. 2736 01:18:40,149 --> 01:18:41,550 BUT I'M HERE TO TELL YOU TODAY, 2737 01:18:41,550 --> 01:18:42,485 YOU ARE POWERFUL. 2738 01:18:42,485 --> 01:18:45,488 [ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] 2739 01:18:45,488 --> 01:18:46,689 SAY, MAYBE SOMETIMES YOU FEEL 2740 01:18:46,689 --> 01:18:48,191 LIKE YOU'RE NOT BEING LISTENED 2741 01:18:48,191 --> 01:18:49,358 TO, BUT I'M HERE TO TELL YOU 2742 01:18:49,358 --> 01:18:49,893 THAT YOU ARE. 2743 01:18:49,893 --> 01:18:51,627 YOU A BEING LISTENED TO. 2744 01:18:51,627 --> 01:18:53,462 YOU A MAKING A DIFFERENCE. 2745 01:18:53,462 --> 01:18:55,331 YOU CAN STOP THIS BILL IF YOU 2746 01:18:55,331 --> 01:18:56,632 DON'T STOP FIGHTING. 2747 01:18:56,632 --> 01:18:59,435 [ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] 2748 01:18:59,435 --> 01:19:02,038 STOP PIPA! STOP SOPA! 2749 01:19:02,038 --> 01:19:03,406 [ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] 2750 01:19:03,406 --> 01:19:04,740 SOME OF THE BIGGEST INTERNET 2751 01:19:04,740 --> 01:19:06,309 COMPANIES, TO PUT IT FRANKLY, 2752 01:19:06,309 --> 01:19:07,911 WOULD BENEFIT FROM A WORLD IN 2753 01:19:07,911 --> 01:19:09,712 WHICH THEIR LITTLE COMPETITORS 2754 01:19:09,712 --> 01:19:11,714 COULD GET CENSORED. 2755 01:19:11,714 --> 01:19:14,483 WE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN. 2756 01:19:14,483 --> 01:19:15,919 FOR HIM, IT WAS MORE 2757 01:19:15,919 --> 01:19:17,854 IMPORTANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU 2758 01:19:17,854 --> 01:19:20,356 MADE A SMALL CHANGE THAN TO PLAY 2759 01:19:20,356 --> 01:19:22,558 A SMALL PART IN A BIG CHANGE. 2760 01:19:22,558 --> 01:19:24,293 BUT SOPA WAS LIKE PLAYING A 2761 01:19:24,293 --> 01:19:25,895 MAJOR PART IN A MAJOR CHANGE. 2762 01:19:25,895 --> 01:19:26,796 [ CHUCKLES ] 2763 01:19:26,796 --> 01:19:28,664 AND SO, FOR HIM, IT WAS KIND OF 2764 01:19:28,664 --> 01:19:29,933 HIS PROOF OF CONCEPT. 2765 01:19:29,933 --> 01:19:31,734 LIKE, "OKAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT I 2766 01:19:31,734 --> 01:19:33,436 WANT TO DO WITH MY LIFE IS 2767 01:19:33,436 --> 01:19:34,537 CHANGE THE WORLD. 2768 01:19:34,537 --> 01:19:36,405 I THINK ABOUT IT IN THIS REALLY 2769 01:19:36,405 --> 01:19:37,974 SCIENTIFIC WAY OF, LIKE, I'M 2770 01:19:37,974 --> 01:19:39,742 MEASURING MY IMPACT, AND THIS 2771 01:19:39,742 --> 01:19:41,610 SHOWS THAT IT'S POSSIBLE, RIGHT, 2772 01:19:41,610 --> 01:19:43,512 THAT THE THING THAT I WANT TO DO 2773 01:19:43,512 --> 01:19:45,581 WITH MY LIFE IS POSSIBLE. 2774 01:19:45,581 --> 01:19:47,516 I HAVE PROVED THAT I CAN DO IT, 2775 01:19:47,516 --> 01:19:49,485 THAT I, AARON SWARTZ, CAN CHANGE 2776 01:19:49,485 --> 01:19:50,386 THE WORLD." 2777 01:19:50,386 --> 01:19:54,423 FOR A GUY WHO NEVER REALLY 2778 01:19:54,423 --> 01:19:56,592 THOUGHT HE HAD DONE MUCH, WHICH 2779 01:19:56,592 --> 01:20:00,263 WAS AARON, IT WAS ONE OF THE FEW 2780 01:20:00,263 --> 01:20:01,464 MOMENTS WHERE YOU COULD REALLY 2781 01:20:01,464 --> 01:20:05,434 SEE THAT HE FELT LIKE HE HAD 2782 01:20:05,434 --> 01:20:07,536 DONE SOMETHING GOOD, FEELING, 2783 01:20:07,536 --> 01:20:09,738 LIKE, HERE IS HIS MAYBE ONE AND 2784 01:20:09,738 --> 01:20:12,876 ONLY VICTORY LAP. 2785 01:20:12,876 --> 01:20:14,677 EVERYONE SAID THERE WAS NO 2786 01:20:14,677 --> 01:20:16,045 WAY WE COULD STOP SOPA. 2787 01:20:16,045 --> 01:20:17,013 WE STOPPED IT. 2788 01:20:17,013 --> 01:20:18,915 THIS IS THREE OUTRAGEOUSLY GOOD 2789 01:20:18,915 --> 01:20:20,716 VICTORIES, AND THE YEAR ISN'T 2790 01:20:20,716 --> 01:20:21,684 EVEN OVER YET. 2791 01:20:21,684 --> 01:20:23,552 I MEAN, IF THERE'S A TIME TO BE 2792 01:20:23,552 --> 01:20:26,355 POSITIVE, IT'S NOW. 2793 01:20:26,355 --> 01:20:27,957 YOU KNOW, HE WINS AT SOPA A 2794 01:20:27,957 --> 01:20:29,525 YEAR AFTER HE'S ARRESTED. 2795 01:20:29,525 --> 01:20:31,027 IT'S NOT AN AMBIGUOUSLY HAPPY 2796 01:20:31,027 --> 01:20:31,694 MOMENT. 2797 01:20:31,694 --> 01:20:32,996 THERE'S A LOT GOING ON. 2798 01:20:32,996 --> 01:20:36,365 HE'S SO ATTUNED TOWARDS 2799 01:20:36,365 --> 01:20:37,934 PARTICIPATING IN THE POLITICAL 2800 01:20:37,934 --> 01:20:39,635 PROCESS, YOU CAN'T STOP HIM. 2801 01:20:39,635 --> 01:20:41,337 THE LIST OF ORGANIZATIONS 2802 01:20:41,337 --> 01:20:42,972 SWARTZ FOUNDED OR CO-FOUNDED IS 2803 01:20:42,972 --> 01:20:43,706 ENORMOUS. 2804 01:20:43,706 --> 01:20:45,541 AND YEARS BEFORE EDWARD SNOWDEN 2805 01:20:45,541 --> 01:20:46,709 WOULD EXPOSE WIDESPREAD INTERNET 2806 01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:48,177 SURVEILLANCE, SWARTZ WAS ALREADY 2807 01:20:48,177 --> 01:20:48,444 CONCERNED. 2808 01:20:48,444 --> 01:20:51,847 IT IS SHOCKING TO THINK THAT 2809 01:20:51,847 --> 01:20:53,649 THE ACCOUNTABILITY IS SO LAX 2810 01:20:53,649 --> 01:20:55,551 THAT THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE SORT 2811 01:20:55,551 --> 01:20:57,386 OF BASIC STATISTICS ABOUT HOW 2812 01:20:57,386 --> 01:20:58,922 BIG THE SPYING PROGRAM IS. 2813 01:20:58,922 --> 01:21:00,556 IF THE ANSWER IS, "OH, WE'RE 2814 01:21:00,556 --> 01:21:01,958 SPYING ON SO MANY PEOPLE, WE 2815 01:21:01,958 --> 01:21:03,692 CAN'T POSSIBLY EVEN COUNT THEM," 2816 01:21:03,692 --> 01:21:05,028 THEN THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT OF 2817 01:21:05,028 --> 01:21:05,661 PEOPLE. 2818 01:21:05,661 --> 01:21:06,963 ONE THING THAT THEY SAID, "LOOK, 2819 01:21:06,963 --> 01:21:08,364 YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THE NUMBER OF 2820 01:21:08,364 --> 01:21:09,498 TELEPHONES WE'RE SPYING ON. 2821 01:21:09,498 --> 01:21:10,733 WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY 2822 01:21:10,733 --> 01:21:11,935 REAL PEOPLE THAT CORRESPONDS 2823 01:21:11,935 --> 01:21:12,401 TO." 2824 01:21:12,401 --> 01:21:13,536 BUT THEY JUST CAME BACK AND 2825 01:21:13,536 --> 01:21:14,637 SAID, "WE CAN'T GIVE YOU A 2826 01:21:14,637 --> 01:21:15,438 NUMBER AT ALL." 2827 01:21:15,438 --> 01:21:16,639 THAT'S PRETTY -- I MEAN, IT'S 2828 01:21:16,639 --> 01:21:17,606 SCARY IS WHAT IT IS. 2829 01:21:17,606 --> 01:21:18,574 WELL, THAT'S SCARY. 2830 01:21:18,574 --> 01:21:19,708 AND THEY PUT INCREDIBLE 2831 01:21:19,708 --> 01:21:21,978 PRESSURE ON HIM, TOOK AWAY HIS, 2832 01:21:21,978 --> 01:21:24,347 YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE MONEY HE 2833 01:21:24,347 --> 01:21:25,081 HAD MADE. 2834 01:21:25,081 --> 01:21:26,916 THEY, YOU KNOW, THREATENED TO 2835 01:21:26,916 --> 01:21:28,985 TAKE AWAY HIS PHYSICAL FREEDOM. 2836 01:21:28,985 --> 01:21:30,686 WHY'D THEY DO IT, YOU KNOW? 2837 01:21:30,686 --> 01:21:32,655 I MEAN, WELL, WHY ARE THEY GOING 2838 01:21:32,655 --> 01:21:34,590 AFTER WHISTLEBLOWERS, YOU KNOW? 2839 01:21:34,590 --> 01:21:36,492 WHY ARE THEY GOING AFTER PEOPLE 2840 01:21:36,492 --> 01:21:38,094 WHO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT ALL 2841 01:21:38,094 --> 01:21:39,362 SORTS OF THINGS? 2842 01:21:39,362 --> 01:21:41,697 I MEAN, FROM THE BANKS TO THE, 2843 01:21:41,697 --> 01:21:44,000 YOU KNOW, TO WAR TO JUST SORT 2844 01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,369 OF GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY. 2845 01:21:46,369 --> 01:21:47,937 SO, SECRECY SERVES THOSE WHO 2846 01:21:47,937 --> 01:21:49,705 ARE ALREADY IN POWER, AND WE ARE 2847 01:21:49,705 --> 01:21:51,507 LIVING IN AN ERA OF SECRECY THAT 2848 01:21:51,507 --> 01:21:53,076 COINCIDES WITH AN ERA WHERE THE 2849 01:21:53,076 --> 01:21:54,777 GOVERNMENT IS DOING ALSO A LOT 2850 01:21:54,777 --> 01:21:56,379 OF THINGS THAT ARE PROBABLY 2851 01:21:56,379 --> 01:21:58,014 ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL. 2852 01:21:58,014 --> 01:21:59,815 SO, THOSE TWO THINGS ARE NOT 2853 01:21:59,815 --> 01:22:01,117 COINCIDENCES. 2854 01:22:01,117 --> 01:22:02,618 IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THIS 2855 01:22:02,618 --> 01:22:03,987 TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN DEVELOPED 2856 01:22:03,987 --> 01:22:05,088 NOT FOR SMALL COUNTRIES 2857 01:22:05,088 --> 01:22:06,722 OVERSEAS, BUT RIGHT HERE FOR USE 2858 01:22:06,722 --> 01:22:08,191 IN THE UNITED STATES BY THE U.S. 2859 01:22:08,191 --> 01:22:08,857 GOVERNMENT. 2860 01:22:08,857 --> 01:22:10,159 THE PROBLEM WITH THE SPYING 2861 01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:11,660 PROGRAM IS IT'S THIS SORT OF 2862 01:22:11,660 --> 01:22:13,396 LONG, SLOW EXPANSION, YOU KNOW, 2863 01:22:13,396 --> 01:22:14,663 GOING BACK TO THE NIXON 2864 01:22:14,663 --> 01:22:15,864 ADMINISTRATION, RIGHT? 2865 01:22:15,864 --> 01:22:17,533 OBVIOUSLY IT BECAME BIG AFTER 2866 01:22:17,533 --> 01:22:19,035 9/11 UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH, AND 2867 01:22:19,035 --> 01:22:20,703 OBAMA HAS CONTINUED TO EXPAND 2868 01:22:20,703 --> 01:22:22,505 IT, AND THE PROBLEMS HAVE SLOWLY 2869 01:22:22,505 --> 01:22:23,706 GROWN WORSE AND WORSE. 2870 01:22:23,706 --> 01:22:25,008 BUT THERE'S NEVER BEEN THIS 2871 01:22:25,008 --> 01:22:26,709 MOMENT YOU CAN POINT TO AND SAY, 2872 01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:28,011 "OKAY, WE NEED TO GALVANIZE 2873 01:22:28,011 --> 01:22:29,612 OPPOSITION TODAY BECAUSE TODAY 2874 01:22:29,612 --> 01:22:31,680 IS WHEN IT MATTERS." 2875 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,416 THE PROSECUTION, IN MY 2876 01:22:33,416 --> 01:22:35,418 ESTIMATION, OF AARON SWARTZ WAS 2877 01:22:35,418 --> 01:22:37,020 ABOUT SENDING A PARTICULAR 2878 01:22:37,020 --> 01:22:40,123 LASER-LIKE MESSAGE TO A GROUP OF 2879 01:22:40,123 --> 01:22:41,957 PEOPLE THAT THE OBAMA 2880 01:22:41,957 --> 01:22:43,792 ADMINISTRATION SEES AS 2881 01:22:43,792 --> 01:22:46,829 POLITICALLY THREATENING. 2882 01:22:46,829 --> 01:22:48,964 AND THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE 2883 01:22:48,964 --> 01:22:51,534 HACKER, THE INFORMATION, AND THE 2884 01:22:51,534 --> 01:22:53,769 DEMOCRACY ACTIVIST COMMUNITY. 2885 01:22:53,769 --> 01:22:55,638 AND THE MESSAGE THAT THE OBAMA 2886 01:22:55,638 --> 01:22:57,606 ADMINISTRATION WANTED TO SEND TO 2887 01:22:57,606 --> 01:22:59,508 THAT PARTICULAR COMMUNITY WAS, 2888 01:22:59,508 --> 01:23:01,244 IN MY ESTIMATION, "WE KNOW YOU 2889 01:23:01,244 --> 01:23:03,079 HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE TROUBLE 2890 01:23:03,079 --> 01:23:04,913 FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT, AND SO WE 2891 01:23:04,913 --> 01:23:06,549 ARE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE AN 2892 01:23:06,549 --> 01:23:08,684 EXAMPLE OUT OF AARON SWARTZ TO 2893 01:23:08,684 --> 01:23:11,020 SCARE AS MANY OF YOU AS POSSIBLE 2894 01:23:11,020 --> 01:23:13,089 INTO NOT MAKING THAT TROUBLE." 2895 01:23:13,089 --> 01:23:14,923 AND THE GOVERNMENT SAID, "OH, 2896 01:23:14,923 --> 01:23:16,692 THE LEGAL OPINIONS WE'RE USING 2897 01:23:16,692 --> 01:23:18,227 TO LEGALIZE THE SPYING PROGRAM 2898 01:23:18,227 --> 01:23:20,063 ARE ALSO CLASSIFIED, SO WE CAN'T 2899 01:23:20,063 --> 01:23:21,830 EVEN TELL YOU WHICH LAWS WE'RE 2900 01:23:21,830 --> 01:23:23,032 USING TO SPY ON YOU." 2901 01:23:23,032 --> 01:23:24,233 EVERY TIME THEY CAN SAY, "OH, 2902 01:23:24,233 --> 01:23:25,601 THIS IS ANOTHER INSTANCE OF 2903 01:23:25,601 --> 01:23:26,635 CYBER WAR" OR "THE CYBER 2904 01:23:26,635 --> 01:23:27,770 CRIMINALS ARE ATTACKING US 2905 01:23:27,770 --> 01:23:28,104 AGAIN. 2906 01:23:28,104 --> 01:23:29,038 WE'RE ALL IN DANGER. 2907 01:23:29,038 --> 01:23:30,239 WE'RE ALL UNDER THREAT," THEY 2908 01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:31,674 USE THOSE AS EXCUSES TO PUSH 2909 01:23:31,674 --> 01:23:32,975 THROUGH MORE AND MORE DANGEROUS 2910 01:23:32,975 --> 01:23:34,643 LAWS. 2911 01:23:34,643 --> 01:23:36,979 AND SO, JUST TO FOLLOW, LIKE, 2912 01:23:36,979 --> 01:23:39,482 PERSONALLY, HOW DO YOU FEEL THE 2913 01:23:39,482 --> 01:23:40,749 FIGHT IS GOING? 2914 01:23:40,749 --> 01:23:42,585 IT'S UP TO YOU. 2915 01:23:42,585 --> 01:23:46,922 [ CHUCKLES ] 2916 01:23:46,922 --> 01:23:50,726 YOU KNOW, THERE'S SORT OF THESE 2917 01:23:50,726 --> 01:23:51,927 TWO POLARIZING PERSPECTIVES, 2918 01:23:51,927 --> 01:23:52,261 RIGHT? 2919 01:23:52,261 --> 01:23:53,229 EVERYTHING IS GREAT. 2920 01:23:53,229 --> 01:23:54,630 THE INTERNET HAS CREATED ALL 2921 01:23:54,630 --> 01:23:55,831 THIS FREEDOM AND LIBERTY AND 2922 01:23:55,831 --> 01:23:57,166 EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE FANTASTIC, 2923 01:23:57,166 --> 01:23:58,501 OR EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE. 2924 01:23:58,501 --> 01:23:59,702 THE INTERNET HAS CREATED ALL 2925 01:23:59,702 --> 01:24:01,003 THESE TOOLS FOR CRACKING DOWN 2926 01:24:01,003 --> 01:24:02,138 AND SPYING AND, YOU KNOW, 2927 01:24:02,138 --> 01:24:03,206 CONTROLLING WHAT WE SAY. 2928 01:24:03,206 --> 01:24:04,840 AND I THINK BOTH ARE TRUE, 2929 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:05,274 RIGHT? 2930 01:24:05,274 --> 01:24:06,975 THE INTERNET HAS DONE BOTH. 2931 01:24:06,975 --> 01:24:08,777 AND BOTH ARE KIND OF AMAZING AND 2932 01:24:08,777 --> 01:24:09,645 ASTONISHING. 2933 01:24:09,645 --> 01:24:11,214 AND WHICH ONE WILL WIN OUT IN 2934 01:24:11,214 --> 01:24:12,815 THE LONG RUN IS UP TO US. 2935 01:24:12,815 --> 01:24:14,016 IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO SAY, 2936 01:24:14,016 --> 01:24:15,218 "OH, ONE IS DOING BETTER THAN 2937 01:24:15,218 --> 01:24:15,884 THE OTHER." 2938 01:24:15,884 --> 01:24:17,086 YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BOTH TRUE. 2939 01:24:17,086 --> 01:24:18,554 AND IT'S UP TO US WHICH ONES WE 2940 01:24:18,554 --> 01:24:19,822 EMPHASIZE AND WHICH ONES WE TAKE 2941 01:24:19,822 --> 01:24:21,090 ADVANTAGE OF, BECAUSE THEY'RE 2942 01:24:21,090 --> 01:24:22,191 BOTH THERE AND THEY'RE BOTH 2943 01:24:22,191 --> 01:24:28,297 ALWAYS GONNA BE THERE. 2944 01:24:28,297 --> 01:24:31,033 ON SEPTEMBER 12, 2012, 2945 01:24:31,033 --> 01:24:32,668 FEDERAL PROSECUTORS FILED A 2946 01:24:32,668 --> 01:24:34,237 SUPERSEDING INDICTMENT AGAINST 2947 01:24:34,237 --> 01:24:36,071 SWARTZ, ADDING ADDITIONAL COUNTS 2948 01:24:36,071 --> 01:24:37,740 OF WIRE FRAUD, UNAUTHORIZED 2949 01:24:37,740 --> 01:24:39,108 ACCESS TO A COMPUTER, AND 2950 01:24:39,108 --> 01:24:40,075 COMPUTER FRAUD. 2951 01:24:40,075 --> 01:24:42,578 NOW INSTEAD OF FOUR FELONY 2952 01:24:42,578 --> 01:24:45,080 COUNTS, SWARTZ WAS FACING 13. 2953 01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:47,049 THE PROSECUTION'S LEVERAGE HAD 2954 01:24:47,049 --> 01:24:49,017 DRAMATICALLY INCREASED, AS DID 2955 01:24:49,017 --> 01:24:51,086 SWARTZ'S POTENTIAL JAIL TIME AND 2956 01:24:51,086 --> 01:24:51,787 FINES. 2957 01:24:51,787 --> 01:24:53,656 THEY FILED A SEPARATE 2958 01:24:53,656 --> 01:24:55,924 INDICTMENT TO ADD MORE CHARGES, 2959 01:24:55,924 --> 01:24:58,161 AND THEY HAD A THEORY ABOUT WHY 2960 01:24:58,161 --> 01:25:00,129 THIS CONDUCT CONSTITUTED A 2961 01:25:00,129 --> 01:25:01,797 NUMBER OF FEDERAL CRIMES AND 2962 01:25:01,797 --> 01:25:03,299 THAT A VERY SIGNIFICANT SENTENCE 2963 01:25:03,299 --> 01:25:04,900 COULD ATTACH TO IT UNDER THE 2964 01:25:04,900 --> 01:25:06,902 LAW. 2965 01:25:06,902 --> 01:25:08,604 THAT THEORY AND MUCH OF THE 2966 01:25:08,604 --> 01:25:10,005 PROSECUTION'S CASE AGAINST 2967 01:25:10,005 --> 01:25:11,707 SWARTZ INVOLVED A LAW CREATED 2968 01:25:11,707 --> 01:25:13,709 ORIGINALLY IN 1986. 2969 01:25:13,709 --> 01:25:14,610 IT IS CALLED THE 2970 01:25:14,610 --> 01:25:15,911 COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE ACT. 2971 01:25:15,911 --> 01:25:17,280 THE COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE 2972 01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:18,781 ACT WAS INSPIRED BY THE MOVIE 2973 01:25:18,781 --> 01:25:19,648 "WarGames" WITH 2974 01:25:19,648 --> 01:25:20,983 MATTHEW BRODERICK, WHICH WAS A 2975 01:25:20,983 --> 01:25:21,750 GREAT MOVIE. 2976 01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:22,918 I HAVE YOU NOW. 2977 01:25:22,918 --> 01:25:24,920 IN THIS MOVIE, A KID GETS THE 2978 01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:26,722 ABILITY THROUGH THE MAGIC OF 2979 01:25:26,722 --> 01:25:28,324 COMPUTER NETWORKS TO, LIKE, 2980 01:25:28,324 --> 01:25:33,095 LAUNCH A NUCLEAR ATTACK. 2981 01:25:33,095 --> 01:25:34,797 YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY 2982 01:25:34,797 --> 01:25:36,199 POSSIBLE, AND IT CERTAINLY 2983 01:25:36,199 --> 01:25:38,033 WASN'T POSSIBLE IN THE '80s, BUT 2984 01:25:38,033 --> 01:25:39,702 APPARENTLY THIS MOVIE SCARED 2985 01:25:39,702 --> 01:25:41,704 CONGRESS ENOUGH TO PASS THE 2986 01:25:41,704 --> 01:25:43,706 ORIGINAL COMPUTER FRAUD AND 2987 01:25:43,706 --> 01:25:44,673 ABUSE ACT. 2988 01:25:44,673 --> 01:25:45,974 THIS IS A LAW THAT'S JUST 2989 01:25:45,974 --> 01:25:46,909 BEHIND THE TIMES. 2990 01:25:46,909 --> 01:25:49,645 FOR EXAMPLE, IT PENALIZES A 2991 01:25:49,645 --> 01:25:51,380 "TERMS OF SERVICE" KINDS OF 2992 01:25:51,380 --> 01:25:52,815 ARRANGEMENTS. 2993 01:25:52,815 --> 01:25:54,750 YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE 2994 01:25:54,750 --> 01:25:56,719 eHarmony OR match.com AND 2995 01:25:56,719 --> 01:25:58,987 SOMEBODY SORT OF INFLATES THEIR 2996 01:25:58,987 --> 01:26:01,290 OWN PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS. 2997 01:26:01,290 --> 01:26:03,058 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, DEPENDING 2998 01:26:03,058 --> 01:26:04,727 ON THE JURISDICTION AND THE 2999 01:26:04,727 --> 01:26:06,295 PROSECUTORS, THEY COULD BE IN A 3000 01:26:06,295 --> 01:26:07,830 WHOLE HOST OF TROUBLES. 3001 01:26:07,830 --> 01:26:09,398 WE ALL KNOW WHAT TERMS OF USE 3002 01:26:09,398 --> 01:26:09,965 ARE. 3003 01:26:09,965 --> 01:26:11,667 MOST PEOPLE DON'T READ THEM. 3004 01:26:11,667 --> 01:26:13,236 BUT NOT ABIDING BY THEIR TERMS 3005 01:26:13,236 --> 01:26:15,070 COULD MEAN YOU ARE COMMITTING A 3006 01:26:15,070 --> 01:26:15,771 FELONY. 3007 01:26:15,771 --> 01:26:17,406 THE WEBSITE TERMS OF SERVICE 3008 01:26:17,406 --> 01:26:19,208 OFTEN SAY THINGS LIKE "BE NICE 3009 01:26:19,208 --> 01:26:20,876 TO EACH OTHER" OR "DON'T DO 3010 01:26:20,876 --> 01:26:22,311 ANYTHING THAT'S IMPROPER." 3011 01:26:22,311 --> 01:26:24,112 THE IDEA THAT THE CRIMINAL LAW 3012 01:26:24,112 --> 01:26:25,981 HAS ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THESE 3013 01:26:25,981 --> 01:26:27,650 KINDS OF VIOLATIONS I THINK 3014 01:26:27,650 --> 01:26:30,152 STRIKES MOST PEOPLE AS CRAZY. 3015 01:26:30,152 --> 01:26:32,120 THE EXAMPLES GET EVEN MORE 3016 01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:32,855 CRAZY. 3017 01:26:32,855 --> 01:26:34,390 UNTIL IT WAS CHANGED IN 3018 01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:36,459 MARCH OF 2013, THE TERMS OF USE 3019 01:26:36,459 --> 01:26:38,294 ON THE WEBSITE OF HEARST'S 3020 01:26:38,294 --> 01:26:40,396 SEVENTEEN MAGAZINE SAID YOU HAD 3021 01:26:40,396 --> 01:26:42,030 TO BE 18 IN ORDER TO READ IT. 3022 01:26:42,030 --> 01:26:43,766 I WOULD SAY THAT THE WAY THE 3023 01:26:43,766 --> 01:26:45,301 CFAA HAS BEEN INTERPRETED BY THE 3024 01:26:45,301 --> 01:26:46,835 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, WE ARE 3025 01:26:46,835 --> 01:26:48,904 PROBABLY ALL BREAKING THE LAW. 3026 01:26:48,904 --> 01:26:50,939 VAGUE AND PRONE TO MISUSE, 3027 01:26:50,939 --> 01:26:52,375 THE CFAA HAS BECOME A 3028 01:26:52,375 --> 01:26:54,677 ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL HAMMER FOR A 3029 01:26:54,677 --> 01:26:56,745 WIDE RANGE OF COMPUTER-RELATED 3030 01:26:56,745 --> 01:26:57,413 DISPUTES. 3031 01:26:57,413 --> 01:26:59,382 THOUGH NOT THE ONLY FACTOR IN 3032 01:26:59,382 --> 01:27:01,484 HIS CASE, 11 OF THE 13 CHARGES 3033 01:27:01,484 --> 01:27:03,352 AGAINST SWARTZ INVOLVED THE 3034 01:27:03,352 --> 01:27:06,889 COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE ACT. 3035 01:27:06,889 --> 01:27:08,957 THE QUESTION "WHY?" HANGS OVER 3036 01:27:08,957 --> 01:27:10,359 MUCH OF THE STORY OF 3037 01:27:10,359 --> 01:27:11,427 AARON SWARTZ. 3038 01:27:11,427 --> 01:27:13,028 JUST WHAT WAS MOTIVATING THE 3039 01:27:13,028 --> 01:27:14,763 GOVERNMENT, AND WHAT WOULD THEIR 3040 01:27:14,763 --> 01:27:15,698 CASE HAVE BEEN? 3041 01:27:15,698 --> 01:27:16,999 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 3042 01:27:16,999 --> 01:27:18,467 DECLINED REQUESTS FOR ANSWERS, 3043 01:27:18,467 --> 01:27:20,068 BUT PROFESSOR ORIN KERR IS A 3044 01:27:20,068 --> 01:27:21,370 FORMER PROSECUTOR WHO HAS 3045 01:27:21,370 --> 01:27:23,138 STUDIED THE CASE. 3046 01:27:23,138 --> 01:27:24,407 SO, I THINK I COME ABOUT THIS 3047 01:27:24,407 --> 01:27:25,841 CASE FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION 3048 01:27:25,841 --> 01:27:27,109 THAN OTHER PEOPLE ON A NUMBER OF 3049 01:27:27,109 --> 01:27:27,476 REASONS. 3050 01:27:27,476 --> 01:27:28,911 I WAS A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR WITH 3051 01:27:28,911 --> 01:27:30,178 THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR THREE 3052 01:27:30,178 --> 01:27:32,247 YEARS BEFORE I STARTED TEACHING. 3053 01:27:32,247 --> 01:27:34,016 THE GOVERNMENT CAME FORWARD WITH 3054 01:27:34,016 --> 01:27:35,384 AN INDICTMENT BASED ON WHAT 3055 01:27:35,384 --> 01:27:36,852 CRIMES THEY THOUGHT WERE 3056 01:27:36,852 --> 01:27:37,386 COMMITTED. 3057 01:27:37,386 --> 01:27:38,887 JUST AS A PURELY LAWYER'S 3058 01:27:38,887 --> 01:27:40,155 MATTER -- LOOKING AT THE 3059 01:27:40,155 --> 01:27:41,524 PRECEDENTS, LOOKING AT THE 3060 01:27:41,524 --> 01:27:43,258 STATUTE, LOOKING AT THE HISTORY, 3061 01:27:43,258 --> 01:27:44,893 LOOKING AT THE CASES THAT ARE 3062 01:27:44,893 --> 01:27:46,395 OUT THERE SO FAR -- I THINK IT 3063 01:27:46,395 --> 01:27:48,030 WAS A FAIR INDICTMENT BASED ON 3064 01:27:48,030 --> 01:27:48,397 THAT. 3065 01:27:48,397 --> 01:27:49,798 YOU CAN DEBATE WHETHER THEY 3066 01:27:49,798 --> 01:27:51,066 SHOULD HAVE CHARGED THIS CASE. 3067 01:27:51,066 --> 01:27:52,067 THERE'S JUST A LOT OF 3068 01:27:52,067 --> 01:27:52,835 DISAGREEMENT. 3069 01:27:52,835 --> 01:27:54,069 SOME PEOPLE ARE ON, YOU KNOW, 3070 01:27:54,069 --> 01:27:55,070 THE OPEN ACCESS SIDE. 3071 01:27:55,070 --> 01:27:56,439 SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT. 3072 01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:58,874 I THINK THE GOVERNMENT TOOK 3073 01:27:58,874 --> 01:28:01,276 SWARTZ'S GUERILLA OPEN ACCESS 3074 01:28:01,276 --> 01:28:03,412 MANIFESTO VERY SERIOUSLY. 3075 01:28:03,412 --> 01:28:05,848 AND I THINK THEY SAW HIM AS 3076 01:28:05,848 --> 01:28:08,283 SOMEBODY WHO WAS COMMITTED AS A 3077 01:28:08,283 --> 01:28:10,919 MORAL IMPERATIVE TO BREAKING THE 3078 01:28:10,919 --> 01:28:13,088 LAW TO OVERCOME A LAW THAT 3079 01:28:13,088 --> 01:28:15,023 SWARTZ SAW AS UNJUST. 3080 01:28:15,023 --> 01:28:16,992 AND IN A DEMOCRACY, IF YOU THINK 3081 01:28:16,992 --> 01:28:18,894 A LAW IS UNJUST, THERE ARE WAYS 3082 01:28:18,894 --> 01:28:20,195 OF CHANGING THAT LAW. 3083 01:28:20,195 --> 01:28:22,030 THERE'S GOING TO CONGRESS, AS 3084 01:28:22,030 --> 01:28:23,866 SWARTZ DID SO MASTERFULLY WITH 3085 01:28:23,866 --> 01:28:24,299 SOPA. 3086 01:28:24,299 --> 01:28:26,335 OR YOU CAN VIOLATE THAT LAW IN A 3087 01:28:26,335 --> 01:28:28,337 WAY TO TRY TO NULLIFY THAT LAW. 3088 01:28:28,337 --> 01:28:30,373 AND I THINK WHAT WAS DRIVING THE 3089 01:28:30,373 --> 01:28:32,307 PROSECUTION WAS THE SENSE THAT 3090 01:28:32,307 --> 01:28:34,477 SWARTZ WAS COMMITTED NOT JUST TO 3091 01:28:34,477 --> 01:28:36,779 BREAKING THE LAW BUT TO REALLY 3092 01:28:36,779 --> 01:28:38,347 MAKING SURE THAT LAW WAS 3093 01:28:38,347 --> 01:28:40,449 NULLIFIED, THAT EVERYONE WOULD 3094 01:28:40,449 --> 01:28:42,818 HAVE ACCESS TO THE DATABASE IN A 3095 01:28:42,818 --> 01:28:44,853 WAY THAT YOU COULDN'T PUT THE 3096 01:28:44,853 --> 01:28:46,922 TOOTHPASTE BACK INTO THE TUBE. 3097 01:28:46,922 --> 01:28:48,891 IT WOULD BE DONE, AND SWARTZ'S 3098 01:28:48,891 --> 01:28:51,827 SIDE WOULD WIN. 3099 01:28:51,827 --> 01:28:53,228 THERE'S A BIG DISAGREEMENT IN 3100 01:28:53,228 --> 01:28:54,930 SOCIETY AS TO WHETHER THAT IS AN 3101 01:28:54,930 --> 01:28:56,198 UNJUST LAW, AND ULTIMATELY 3102 01:28:56,198 --> 01:28:57,433 THAT'S A DECISION FOR THE 3103 01:28:57,433 --> 01:28:59,101 AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE WORKING 3104 01:28:59,101 --> 01:29:00,068 THROUGH CONGRESS. 3105 01:29:00,068 --> 01:29:01,604 AND THEN THE SECOND PROBLEM IS, 3106 01:29:01,604 --> 01:29:03,238 I THINK, WE'RE STILL TRYING TO 3107 01:29:03,238 --> 01:29:04,540 FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE LINE 3108 01:29:04,540 --> 01:29:06,108 BETWEEN LESS SERIOUS OFFENSES 3109 01:29:06,108 --> 01:29:07,410 AND MORE SERIOUS OFFENSES? 3110 01:29:07,410 --> 01:29:08,877 WE'RE NOW ENTERING THIS 3111 01:29:08,877 --> 01:29:10,245 DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT OF 3112 01:29:10,245 --> 01:29:12,047 COMPUTERS AND COMPUTER MISUSE, 3113 01:29:12,047 --> 01:29:13,882 AND WE DON'T YET HAVE A REALLY 3114 01:29:13,882 --> 01:29:15,418 STRONG SENSE OF EXACTLY WHAT 3115 01:29:15,418 --> 01:29:16,452 THESE LINES ARE. 3116 01:29:16,452 --> 01:29:19,021 WE'RE JUST WORKING THAT OUT. 3117 01:29:19,021 --> 01:29:20,288 THIS IS A POOR USE OF 3118 01:29:20,288 --> 01:29:21,624 PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION. 3119 01:29:21,624 --> 01:29:23,225 THE HAMMER THAT THE JUSTICE 3120 01:29:23,225 --> 01:29:24,927 DEPARTMENT HAS TO SCARE PEOPLE 3121 01:29:24,927 --> 01:29:26,395 WITH, IT JUST GETS BIGGER AND 3122 01:29:26,395 --> 01:29:27,430 BIGGER AND BIGGER. 3123 01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:29,097 AND SO, MOST PEOPLE JUST, YOU 3124 01:29:29,097 --> 01:29:30,566 KNOW, YOU CAN'T ROLL THE DICE 3125 01:29:30,566 --> 01:29:32,034 WITH YOUR LIFE LIKE THAT. 3126 01:29:32,034 --> 01:29:33,402 SHOULD WE TAP SOMEBODY'S 3127 01:29:33,402 --> 01:29:34,036 PHONE? 3128 01:29:34,036 --> 01:29:35,137 SHOULD WE FILM THEM? 3129 01:29:35,137 --> 01:29:36,872 SHOULD WE TURN SOMEBODY AND GET 3130 01:29:36,872 --> 01:29:38,340 THEM TO TESTIFY AGAINST THESE 3131 01:29:38,340 --> 01:29:39,207 OTHER PEOPLE? 3132 01:29:39,207 --> 01:29:41,143 THAT'S HOW FEDERAL AGENTS AND 3133 01:29:41,143 --> 01:29:42,377 PROSECUTORS THINK. 3134 01:29:42,377 --> 01:29:43,579 THEY BUILD CASES. 3135 01:29:43,579 --> 01:29:46,314 THEY MAKE CASES. 3136 01:29:46,314 --> 01:29:47,850 SWARTZ WAS CAUGHT IN THE 3137 01:29:47,850 --> 01:29:48,617 GEARS OF A BRUTAL 3138 01:29:48,617 --> 01:29:50,185 CRIMINAL-JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT 3139 01:29:50,185 --> 01:29:51,587 COULD NOT TURN BACK, A MACHINE 3140 01:29:51,587 --> 01:29:53,055 THAT HAS MADE AMERICA THE 3141 01:29:53,055 --> 01:29:54,590 COUNTRY WITH THE HIGHEST RATE OF 3142 01:29:54,590 --> 01:29:56,659 INCARCERATION IN THE WORLD. 3143 01:29:56,659 --> 01:29:58,527 WE HAVE, IN THIS COUNTRY, 3144 01:29:58,527 --> 01:30:00,596 ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE CAPTURED 3145 01:30:00,596 --> 01:30:02,197 BY THE POLITICS OF FEAR AND 3146 01:30:02,197 --> 01:30:03,966 ANGER, AND ANYTHING WE'RE AFRAID 3147 01:30:03,966 --> 01:30:06,368 OF, LIKE THE FUTURE OF THE 3148 01:30:06,368 --> 01:30:09,037 INTERNET AND ACCESS AND ANYTHING 3149 01:30:09,037 --> 01:30:10,639 WE'RE ANGRY ABOUT, INSTINCTIVELY 3150 01:30:10,639 --> 01:30:12,240 CREATES A CRIMINAL-JUSTICE 3151 01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:13,476 INTERVENTION. 3152 01:30:13,476 --> 01:30:15,644 AND WE'VE USED JAIL, PRISON, AND 3153 01:30:15,644 --> 01:30:17,880 PUNISHMENT TO RESOLVE A WHOLE 3154 01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:19,347 HOST OF PROBLEMS THAT 3155 01:30:19,347 --> 01:30:21,484 HISTORICALLY WERE NEVER SEEN AS 3156 01:30:21,484 --> 01:30:23,385 CRIMINAL-JUSTICE PROBLEMS. 3157 01:30:23,385 --> 01:30:25,554 THE IMPULSE TO THREATEN, INDICT, 3158 01:30:25,554 --> 01:30:27,289 PROSECUTE, WHICH IS PART OF WHAT 3159 01:30:27,289 --> 01:30:28,657 HAS CREATED THIS DEBATE AND 3160 01:30:28,657 --> 01:30:30,325 CONTROVERSY OVER ONLINE ACCESS 3161 01:30:30,325 --> 01:30:32,027 AND INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET, 3162 01:30:32,027 --> 01:30:33,428 IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT 3163 01:30:33,428 --> 01:30:34,930 WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER AREAS. 3164 01:30:34,930 --> 01:30:36,364 THE ONE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE 3165 01:30:36,364 --> 01:30:38,066 PEOPLE WHO ARE USUALLY TARGETED 3166 01:30:38,066 --> 01:30:41,169 AND VICTIMIZED BY THESE KINDS OF 3167 01:30:41,169 --> 01:30:43,038 CRIMINAL INCARCERAL RESPONSES 3168 01:30:43,038 --> 01:30:46,675 ARE TYPICALLY POOR IN MINORITY. 3169 01:30:46,675 --> 01:30:48,243 SWARTZ'S ISOLATION FROM 3170 01:30:48,243 --> 01:30:49,912 FRIENDS AND FAMILY INCREASED. 3171 01:30:49,912 --> 01:30:51,313 HE HAD BASICALLY STOPPED 3172 01:30:51,313 --> 01:30:52,981 WORKING ON ANYTHING ELSE, AND 3173 01:30:52,981 --> 01:30:54,449 THE CASE WAS, IN FACT, LIKE, 3174 01:30:54,449 --> 01:30:56,118 TAKING OVER SORT OF HIS WHOLE 3175 01:30:56,118 --> 01:30:56,485 LIFE. 3176 01:30:56,485 --> 01:30:58,020 ONE OF AARON'S LAWYERS 3177 01:30:58,020 --> 01:30:59,555 APPARENTLY TOLD THE PROSECUTORS 3178 01:30:59,555 --> 01:31:01,123 THAT HE WAS EMOTIONALLY 3179 01:31:01,123 --> 01:31:02,558 VULNERABLE AND THAT THAT WAS 3180 01:31:02,558 --> 01:31:04,126 SOMETHING THAT THEY REALLY 3181 01:31:04,126 --> 01:31:05,628 NEEDED TO KEEP IN MIND SO THAT 3182 01:31:05,628 --> 01:31:06,595 THEY KNEW THAT. 3183 01:31:06,595 --> 01:31:08,296 IT WAS WEIGHING ON HIM VERY 3184 01:31:08,296 --> 01:31:08,797 HEAVILY. 3185 01:31:08,797 --> 01:31:11,233 HE DID NOT LIKE HAVING HIS 3186 01:31:11,233 --> 01:31:13,468 ACTIONS AND HIS MOVEMENTS 3187 01:31:13,468 --> 01:31:15,504 RESTRICTED IN ANY WAY. 3188 01:31:15,504 --> 01:31:18,140 AND THE THREAT OF JAIL, WHICH 3189 01:31:18,140 --> 01:31:22,244 THEY POUNDED HIM WITH A LOT, WAS 3190 01:31:22,244 --> 01:31:23,445 TERRIFYING TO HIM. 3191 01:31:23,445 --> 01:31:25,247 COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED HIS 3192 01:31:25,247 --> 01:31:27,282 FINANCIAL RESOURCES, AND IT COST 3193 01:31:27,282 --> 01:31:29,251 US A LOT OF MONEY, ALSO, AND HE 3194 01:31:29,251 --> 01:31:31,219 RAISED A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF 3195 01:31:31,219 --> 01:31:31,687 MONEY. 3196 01:31:31,687 --> 01:31:33,656 SO, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS IN 3197 01:31:33,656 --> 01:31:35,357 THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. 3198 01:31:35,357 --> 01:31:36,692 THE LEGAL DEFENSE? 3199 01:31:36,692 --> 01:31:37,392 YES. 3200 01:31:37,392 --> 01:31:39,027 WAS IN THE MILLIONS? 3201 01:31:39,027 --> 01:31:40,629 YES. 3202 01:31:40,629 --> 01:31:42,264 YEAH, I THINK HE DIDN'T WANT 3203 01:31:42,264 --> 01:31:43,532 TO BE A BURDEN TO PEOPLE. 3204 01:31:43,532 --> 01:31:45,000 I THINK THAT WAS A FACTOR. 3205 01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:46,368 LIKE, "I HAVE MY NORMAL LIFE, 3206 01:31:46,368 --> 01:31:47,703 AND THEN I HAVE THIS SHITTY 3207 01:31:47,703 --> 01:31:49,337 THING I HAVE TO DEAL WITH, AND I 3208 01:31:49,337 --> 01:31:50,739 TRY TO, LIKE, KEEP THE TWO OF 3209 01:31:50,739 --> 01:31:52,340 THEM AS SEPARATE AS POSSIBLE." 3210 01:31:52,340 --> 01:31:54,009 BUT THEY WERE JUST BEGINNING TO 3211 01:31:54,009 --> 01:31:55,544 BLUR TOGETHER AND EVERYTHING WAS 3212 01:31:55,544 --> 01:31:58,547 BECOMING SHITTY. 3213 01:31:58,547 --> 01:32:00,382 SWARTZ FACED A TOUGH CHOICE 3214 01:32:00,382 --> 01:32:02,117 THAT WAS ONLY GETTING TOUGHER. 3215 01:32:02,117 --> 01:32:03,686 DO YOU ADMIT GUILT AND MOVE ON 3216 01:32:03,686 --> 01:32:05,487 WITH YOUR LIFE, OR DO YOU FIGHT 3217 01:32:05,487 --> 01:32:06,488 A BROKEN SYSTEM? 3218 01:32:06,488 --> 01:32:08,390 WITH HIS LEGAL CASE, THE ANSWER 3219 01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:09,157 WAS SIMPLE. 3220 01:32:09,157 --> 01:32:11,026 HE REJECTS THE FINAL PLEA DEAL, 3221 01:32:11,026 --> 01:32:12,394 AND A TRIAL DATE IS SET. 3222 01:32:12,394 --> 01:32:14,162 AARON WAS RESOLUTE THAT HE 3223 01:32:14,162 --> 01:32:16,031 DIDN'T WANT TO KNUCKLE UNDER AND 3224 01:32:16,031 --> 01:32:17,666 ACCEPT SOMETHING THAT HE DIDN'T 3225 01:32:17,666 --> 01:32:19,401 BELIEVE WAS FAIR, BUT I ALSO 3226 01:32:19,401 --> 01:32:21,236 THINK HE WAS SCARED. 3227 01:32:32,180 --> 01:32:33,481 I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE 3228 01:32:33,481 --> 01:32:34,349 CONVICTED AARON. 3229 01:32:34,349 --> 01:32:35,751 I THINK WE WOULD HAVE WALKED HIM 3230 01:32:35,751 --> 01:32:37,219 OUT OF THAT COURTHOUSE AND I 3231 01:32:37,219 --> 01:32:38,553 WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM A BIG HUG 3232 01:32:38,553 --> 01:32:40,122 AND WE WOULD HAVE WALKED ACROSS 3233 01:32:40,122 --> 01:32:41,523 THAT LITTLE RIVER IN BOSTON AND 3234 01:32:41,523 --> 01:32:44,092 GONE AND HAD A COUPLE OF BEERS. 3235 01:32:44,092 --> 01:32:45,327 * TO GO HOME 3236 01:32:45,327 --> 01:32:46,762 I REALLY THOUGHT THAT WE WERE 3237 01:32:46,762 --> 01:32:47,329 RIGHT. 3238 01:32:47,329 --> 01:32:48,764 I THOUGHT THAT WE WERE GONNA WIN 3239 01:32:48,764 --> 01:32:49,431 THE CASE. 3240 01:32:49,431 --> 01:32:50,799 I THOUGHT THAT WE COULD WIN THE 3241 01:32:50,799 --> 01:32:51,333 CASE. 3242 01:32:51,333 --> 01:32:52,735 HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT VERY 3243 01:32:52,735 --> 01:32:54,202 MUCH, BUT YOU COULD SEE THE 3244 01:32:54,202 --> 01:32:55,604 ENORMOUS PAIN THAT HE WAS GOING 3245 01:32:55,604 --> 01:32:56,504 THROUGH. 3246 01:32:56,504 --> 01:33:00,575 * CAN'T BE FAR AWAY 3247 01:33:00,575 --> 01:33:02,410 NO TIME IN HIS CHILDHOOD DID 3248 01:33:02,410 --> 01:33:03,846 AARON HAVE ANY SEVERE MOOD 3249 01:33:03,846 --> 01:33:05,513 SWINGS OR, LIKE, DEPRESSIVE 3250 01:33:05,513 --> 01:33:07,215 EPISODES OR ANYTHING THAT I 3251 01:33:07,215 --> 01:33:08,550 WOULD DESCRIBE AS SEVERE 3252 01:33:08,550 --> 01:33:09,317 DEPRESSION. 3253 01:33:09,317 --> 01:33:11,153 AND IT'S POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, HE 3254 01:33:11,153 --> 01:33:12,120 WAS DEPRESSED. 3255 01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:18,093 PEOPLE GET DEPRESSED. 3256 01:33:18,093 --> 01:33:19,527 VERY EARLY IN OUR 3257 01:33:19,527 --> 01:33:21,764 RELATIONSHIP, LIKE THREE OR FOUR 3258 01:33:21,764 --> 01:33:23,598 WEEKS IN OR SOMETHING, I 3259 01:33:23,598 --> 01:33:27,235 REMEMBER HIM SAYING TO ME... 3260 01:33:27,235 --> 01:33:29,171 THAT I WAS A LOT STRONGER THAN 3261 01:33:29,171 --> 01:33:29,705 HE WAS. 3262 01:33:29,705 --> 01:33:31,606 YOU KNOW, HE WAS BRITTLE IN A 3263 01:33:31,606 --> 01:33:32,540 LOT OF WAYS. 3264 01:33:32,540 --> 01:33:34,609 THINGS WERE A LOT HARDER FOR HIM 3265 01:33:34,609 --> 01:33:36,311 THAN FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. 3266 01:33:36,311 --> 01:33:40,148 WAS PART OF HIS BRILLIANCE, TOO. 3267 01:33:40,148 --> 01:33:41,717 I THINK HE PROBABLY HAD 3268 01:33:41,717 --> 01:33:43,485 SOMETHING LIKE CLINICAL 3269 01:33:43,485 --> 01:33:45,553 DEPRESSION IN HIS EARLY 20's. 3270 01:33:45,553 --> 01:33:47,756 I DON'T THINK HE DID WHEN I WAS 3271 01:33:47,756 --> 01:33:48,657 WITH HIM. 3272 01:33:48,657 --> 01:33:50,759 HE WASN'T A JOYFUL PERSON, BUT 3273 01:33:50,759 --> 01:33:52,728 THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM BEING 3274 01:33:52,728 --> 01:33:55,731 DEPRESSED. 3275 01:33:55,731 --> 01:33:57,766 HE WAS JUST UNDER SUCH ENORMOUS 3276 01:33:57,766 --> 01:33:59,835 PRESSURE FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT. 3277 01:33:59,835 --> 01:34:01,804 HE JUST DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT 3278 01:34:01,804 --> 01:34:03,271 ANYMORE. 3279 01:34:03,271 --> 01:34:04,807 HE WAS JUST -- LIKE, I JUST 3280 01:34:04,807 --> 01:34:06,274 THINK IT WAS TOO MUCH. 3281 01:34:06,274 --> 01:34:11,680 * SIT QUIETLY 3282 01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,716 * ALONE 3283 01:34:13,716 --> 01:34:15,684 I GOT A PHONE CALL LATE AT 3284 01:34:15,684 --> 01:34:16,384 NIGHT. 3285 01:34:16,384 --> 01:34:18,220 I COULD TELL SOMETHING WAS 3286 01:34:18,220 --> 01:34:20,288 WRONG, AND THEN I CALLED, AND I 3287 01:34:20,288 --> 01:34:22,791 REALIZED WHAT HAD HAPPENED. 3288 01:34:22,791 --> 01:34:24,659 A CO-FOUNDER OF THE SOCIAL 3289 01:34:24,659 --> 01:34:26,594 NEWS AND ENTERTAINMENT WEBSITE 3290 01:34:26,594 --> 01:34:28,363 REDDIT HAS BEEN FOUND DEAD. 3291 01:34:28,363 --> 01:34:29,732 POLICE SAY 26-YEAR-OLD 3292 01:34:29,732 --> 01:34:31,533 AARON SWARTZ KILLED HIMSELF 3293 01:34:31,533 --> 01:34:33,235 YESTERDAY IN HIS BROOKLYN 3294 01:34:33,235 --> 01:34:33,869 APARTMENT. 3295 01:34:33,869 --> 01:34:35,670 [ RAIN PATTERING ] 3296 01:34:35,670 --> 01:34:37,205 [ THUNDER RUMBLES ] 3297 01:34:37,205 --> 01:34:40,876 I JUST THOUGHT, "WE'VE LOST 3298 01:34:40,876 --> 01:34:44,847 ONE OF THE MOST CREATIVE MINDS 3299 01:34:44,847 --> 01:34:46,148 OF OUR GENERATION. 3300 01:34:46,148 --> 01:34:47,682 IT WAS LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD 3301 01:34:47,682 --> 01:34:49,284 FELL APART AT THAT MOMENT. 3302 01:34:49,284 --> 01:34:54,790 UM... 3303 01:34:54,790 --> 01:34:55,590 [ SIGHS ] 3304 01:34:55,590 --> 01:34:57,625 IT WAS ONE OF THE HARDEST NIGHTS 3305 01:34:57,625 --> 01:34:59,728 OF MY LIFE. 3306 01:34:59,728 --> 01:35:01,029 I KEPT SCREAMING, "I CAN'T 3307 01:35:01,029 --> 01:35:01,629 HEAR YOU. 3308 01:35:01,629 --> 01:35:02,497 WHAT DID YOU SAY? 3309 01:35:02,497 --> 01:35:05,267 I CAN'T HEAR YOU." 3310 01:35:05,267 --> 01:35:06,935 [ SIGHS ] 3311 01:35:06,935 --> 01:35:12,640 I CAN'T. THAT'S IT. 3312 01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:16,444 [ SNIFFLES ] 3313 01:35:16,444 --> 01:35:19,314 UH... 3314 01:35:19,314 --> 01:35:20,949 LIKE, YEAH, NONE OF IT MADE ANY 3315 01:35:20,949 --> 01:35:21,583 SENSE. 3316 01:35:21,583 --> 01:35:23,819 IT REALLY STILL DOESN'T. 3317 01:35:23,819 --> 01:35:26,388 I WAS SO FRUSTRATED AND 3318 01:35:26,388 --> 01:35:29,424 ANGRY. 3319 01:35:29,424 --> 01:35:31,994 [ INHALES SHAKILY ] 3320 01:35:31,994 --> 01:35:37,299 [ EXHALES DEEPLY ] 3321 01:35:37,299 --> 01:35:38,934 YOU KNOW, I TRIED TO EXPLAIN IT 3322 01:35:38,934 --> 01:35:42,871 TO MY KIDS. 3323 01:35:42,871 --> 01:35:44,672 MY 3-YEAR-OLD TOLD ME THAT THE 3324 01:35:44,672 --> 01:35:51,413 DOCTORS WOULD FIX HIM. 3325 01:35:51,413 --> 01:35:52,781 I'VE KNOWN LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT 3326 01:35:52,781 --> 01:35:54,316 HAVE DIED, BUT I'VE NEVER LOST 3327 01:35:54,316 --> 01:35:55,283 ANYBODY LIKE THIS. 3328 01:35:55,283 --> 01:35:56,318 [ SNIFFLES ] 3329 01:35:56,318 --> 01:35:58,653 BECAUSE EVERYBODY FEELS -- AND I 3330 01:35:58,653 --> 01:36:00,923 DO, TOO -- THERE'S SO MUCH WE 3331 01:36:00,923 --> 01:36:02,891 COULD HAVE -- MORE TO DO. 3332 01:36:02,891 --> 01:36:04,893 LIKE, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS 3333 01:36:04,893 --> 01:36:05,593 THERE. 3334 01:36:05,593 --> 01:36:07,562 I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS WHAT HE 3335 01:36:07,562 --> 01:36:10,765 WAS SUFFERING AND... 3336 01:36:10,765 --> 01:36:15,770 HE WAS PART OF ME. 3337 01:36:15,770 --> 01:36:17,772 AND I JUST WANTED IT TO NOT BE 3338 01:36:17,772 --> 01:36:19,007 REAL. 3339 01:36:19,007 --> 01:36:23,678 AND THEN... 3340 01:36:23,678 --> 01:36:25,247 AND THEN I JUST LOOKED AT HIS 3341 01:36:25,247 --> 01:36:26,614 WIKIPEDIA PAGE, AND I SAW THE 3342 01:36:26,614 --> 01:36:32,520 END DATE. 3343 01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:35,223 "TO 2013." 3344 01:36:43,031 --> 01:36:45,400 "AARON IS DEAD. 3345 01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,635 WANDERERS IN THIS CRAZY WORLD, 3346 01:36:47,635 --> 01:36:49,804 WE HAVE LOST A MENTOR, A WISE 3347 01:36:49,804 --> 01:36:50,572 ELDER. 3348 01:36:50,572 --> 01:36:52,975 HACKERS FOR RIGHT, WE ARE ONE 3349 01:36:52,975 --> 01:36:53,775 DOWN. 3350 01:36:53,775 --> 01:36:56,478 WE'VE LOST ONE OF OUR OWN. 3351 01:36:56,478 --> 01:36:59,647 NURTURERS, CARERS, LISTENERS, 3352 01:36:59,647 --> 01:37:02,918 FEEDERS, PARENTS ALL, WE HAVE 3353 01:37:02,918 --> 01:37:04,887 LOST A CHILD. 3354 01:37:04,887 --> 01:37:06,721 LET US ALL WEEP." 3355 01:37:14,329 --> 01:37:16,098 MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS, "WHAT 3356 01:37:16,098 --> 01:37:17,799 IF NOBODY EVEN NOTICES?" 3357 01:37:17,799 --> 01:37:19,868 YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IT WASN'T CLEAR 3358 01:37:19,868 --> 01:37:23,738 TO ME HOW SALIENT HE WAS. 3359 01:37:23,738 --> 01:37:26,574 I HAD NEVER SEEN ANYTHING 3360 01:37:26,574 --> 01:37:28,676 QUITE LIKE THE OUTPOURING I SAW. 3361 01:37:28,676 --> 01:37:30,378 THE NET JUST LIT UP. 3362 01:37:30,378 --> 01:37:32,380 I MEAN, EVERYONE WAS TRYING 3363 01:37:32,380 --> 01:37:34,883 TO -- TO EXPLAIN IT IN THEIR OWN 3364 01:37:34,883 --> 01:37:37,519 WAY, BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE 3365 01:37:37,519 --> 01:37:39,621 GRIEVE ON TWITTER BEFORE. 3366 01:37:39,621 --> 01:37:41,089 PEOPLE WERE VISIBLY GRIEVING 3367 01:37:41,089 --> 01:37:45,460 ONLINE. 3368 01:37:45,460 --> 01:37:47,362 HE WAS THE INTERNET'S OWN 3369 01:37:47,362 --> 01:37:48,897 BOY. 3370 01:37:48,897 --> 01:37:54,937 AND THE OLD WORLD KILLED HIM. 3371 01:37:54,937 --> 01:37:56,738 WE ARE STANDING IN THE MIDDLE 3372 01:37:56,738 --> 01:37:58,473 OF A TIME WHEN GREAT INJUSTICE 3373 01:37:58,473 --> 01:38:01,209 IS NOT TOUCHED. 3374 01:38:01,209 --> 01:38:03,111 ARCHITECTS OF THE FINANCIAL 3375 01:38:03,111 --> 01:38:05,113 MELTDOWN HAVE DINNER WITH THE 3376 01:38:05,113 --> 01:38:06,648 PRESIDENT REGULARLY. 3377 01:38:06,648 --> 01:38:08,583 THE MIDDLE OF THAT TIME, THE 3378 01:38:08,583 --> 01:38:10,986 IDEA THAT THIS WAS WHAT THE 3379 01:38:10,986 --> 01:38:14,056 GOVERNMENT HAD TO PROSECUTE... 3380 01:38:14,056 --> 01:38:16,558 JUST SEEMS ABSURD, IF IT WEREN'T 3381 01:38:16,558 --> 01:38:17,392 TRAGIC. 3382 01:38:17,392 --> 01:38:19,694 THE QUESTION IS, "CAN WE DO 3383 01:38:19,694 --> 01:38:22,030 SOMETHING GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED 3384 01:38:22,030 --> 01:38:24,099 TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER 3385 01:38:24,099 --> 01:38:25,900 PLACE? 3386 01:38:25,900 --> 01:38:27,102 AND HOW CAN WE FURTHER THAT 3387 01:38:27,102 --> 01:38:27,702 LEGACY?" 3388 01:38:27,702 --> 01:38:29,071 THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION ONE CAN 3389 01:38:29,071 --> 01:38:32,807 ASK. 3390 01:38:32,807 --> 01:38:34,676 ALL OVER THE WORLD, THERE 3391 01:38:34,676 --> 01:38:36,611 WERE STARTING TO BE HACKATHONS 3392 01:38:36,611 --> 01:38:37,679 AND GATHERINGS. 3393 01:38:37,679 --> 01:38:39,714 AARON SWARTZ HAS, IN SOME SENSE, 3394 01:38:39,714 --> 01:38:41,916 BROUGHT THE BEST OUT OF US IN 3395 01:38:41,916 --> 01:38:44,152 TRYING TO SAY, "HOW DO WE FIX 3396 01:38:44,152 --> 01:38:46,921 THIS?" 3397 01:38:46,921 --> 01:38:49,124 HE WAS, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, 3398 01:38:49,124 --> 01:38:51,126 ONE OF THE TRUE EXTRAORDINARY 3399 01:38:51,126 --> 01:38:52,961 REVOLUTIONARIES THAT THIS 3400 01:38:52,961 --> 01:38:54,596 COUNTRY HAS PRODUCED. 3401 01:38:54,596 --> 01:38:56,798 I DON'T KNOW WHETHER AARON 3402 01:38:56,798 --> 01:38:59,101 WAS DEFEATED OR VICTORIOUS, BUT 3403 01:38:59,101 --> 01:39:01,636 WE ARE CERTAINLY SHAPED BY THE 3404 01:39:01,636 --> 01:39:03,972 HAND OF THE THINGS THAT HE 3405 01:39:03,972 --> 01:39:05,573 WRESTLED WITH. 3406 01:39:05,573 --> 01:39:07,709 WHEN WE TURN ARMED AGENTS OF 3407 01:39:07,709 --> 01:39:09,711 THE LAW ON CITIZENS TRYING TO 3408 01:39:09,711 --> 01:39:11,746 INCREASE ACCESS TO KNOWLEDGE, 3409 01:39:11,746 --> 01:39:13,781 WE'VE BROKEN THE RULE OF LAW. 3410 01:39:13,781 --> 01:39:15,850 WE'VE DESECRATED THE TEMPLE OF 3411 01:39:15,850 --> 01:39:16,684 JUSTICE. 3412 01:39:16,684 --> 01:39:19,554 AARON SWARTZ WAS NOT A CRIMINAL. 3413 01:39:19,554 --> 01:39:20,855 [ APPLAUSE ] 3414 01:39:20,855 --> 01:39:23,091 CHANGE DOES NOT ROLL IN ON THE 3415 01:39:23,091 --> 01:39:24,993 WHEELS OF INEVITABILITY. 3416 01:39:24,993 --> 01:39:27,062 IT COMES THROUGH CONTINUOUS 3417 01:39:27,062 --> 01:39:29,197 STRUGGLE. 3418 01:39:29,197 --> 01:39:31,933 AARON REALLY COULD DO MAGIC. 3419 01:39:31,933 --> 01:39:33,535 AND I'M DEDICATED TO MAKING SURE 3420 01:39:33,535 --> 01:39:34,902 THAT HIS MAGIC DOESN'T END WITH 3421 01:39:34,902 --> 01:39:35,603 HIS DEATH. 3422 01:39:35,603 --> 01:39:37,005 HE BELIEVED THAT HE COULD CHANGE 3423 01:39:37,005 --> 01:39:37,705 THE WORLD. 3424 01:39:37,705 --> 01:39:40,008 AND HE WAS RIGHT. 3425 01:39:40,008 --> 01:39:41,876 OUT OF THE LAST WEEK AND OUT OF 3426 01:39:41,876 --> 01:39:43,478 TODAY, FENCES ARE ALREADY 3427 01:39:43,478 --> 01:39:43,978 RISING. 3428 01:39:43,978 --> 01:39:46,148 [ APPLAUSE ] 3429 01:39:46,148 --> 01:39:48,516 SINCE SWARTZ'S DEATH, 3430 01:39:48,516 --> 01:39:50,018 REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN AND 3431 01:39:50,018 --> 01:39:51,219 SENATOR RON WYDEN HAVE 3432 01:39:51,219 --> 01:39:52,820 INTRODUCED LEGISLATION THAT 3433 01:39:52,820 --> 01:39:53,788 WOULD REFORM THE 3434 01:39:53,788 --> 01:39:55,490 COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE ACT, 3435 01:39:55,490 --> 01:39:57,059 THE OUTDATED LAW THAT FORMED THE 3436 01:39:57,059 --> 01:39:59,127 MAJORITY OF THE CHARGES AGAINST 3437 01:39:59,127 --> 01:39:59,894 SWARTZ. 3438 01:39:59,894 --> 01:40:02,764 IT'S CALLED AARON'S LAW. 3439 01:40:02,764 --> 01:40:04,032 AARON BELIEVED THAT, LIKE, 3440 01:40:04,032 --> 01:40:05,633 YOU LITERALLY OUGHT TO BE ASKING 3441 01:40:05,633 --> 01:40:06,968 YOURSELF ALL OF THE TIME, "WHAT 3442 01:40:06,968 --> 01:40:08,236 IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I 3443 01:40:08,236 --> 01:40:09,771 CAN BE WORKING ON IN THE WORLD 3444 01:40:09,771 --> 01:40:10,238 RIGHT NOW? 3445 01:40:10,238 --> 01:40:11,673 AND IF YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON 3446 01:40:11,673 --> 01:40:12,740 THAT, WHY AREN'T YOU?" 3447 01:40:12,740 --> 01:40:15,577 [ PROTESTORS CHANTING ] 3448 01:40:32,894 --> 01:40:34,896 I WISH WE COULD CHANGE THE 3449 01:40:34,896 --> 01:40:36,231 PAST, BUT WE CANNOT. 3450 01:40:36,231 --> 01:40:38,533 BUT WE COULD CHANGE THE FUTURE, 3451 01:40:38,533 --> 01:40:39,301 AND WE MUST. 3452 01:40:39,301 --> 01:40:41,069 WE MUST DO SO FOR AARON. 3453 01:40:41,069 --> 01:40:43,171 WE MUST DO SO FOR OURSELVES. 3454 01:40:43,171 --> 01:40:45,607 WE MUST DO SO TO MAKE OUR WORLD 3455 01:40:45,607 --> 01:40:47,775 A BETTER PLACE, A MORE HUMANE 3456 01:40:47,775 --> 01:40:49,877 PLACE, A PLACE WHERE JUSTICE 3457 01:40:49,877 --> 01:40:52,013 WORKS AND ACCESS TO KNOWLEDGE 3458 01:40:52,013 --> 01:40:53,815 BECOMES A HUMAN RIGHT. 3459 01:40:53,815 --> 01:40:56,551 SO, THERE WAS A KID BACK IN 3460 01:40:56,551 --> 01:40:58,786 FEBRUARY FROM BALTIMORE -- 3461 01:40:58,786 --> 01:41:03,691 14 YEARS OLD -- WHO HAD ACCESS 3462 01:41:03,691 --> 01:41:05,193 TO JSTOR, AND HE'D BEEN 3463 01:41:05,193 --> 01:41:07,229 SPELUNKING THROUGH JSTOR AFTER 3464 01:41:07,229 --> 01:41:09,030 READING SOMETHING, AND HE 3465 01:41:09,030 --> 01:41:10,932 FIGURED OUT A WAY TO DO EARLY 3466 01:41:10,932 --> 01:41:14,302 TESTS FOR PANCREATIC CANCER. 3467 01:41:14,302 --> 01:41:16,003 AND PANCREATIC CANCER KILLS THE 3468 01:41:16,003 --> 01:41:17,572 SHIT OUT OF YOU, BECAUSE WE 3469 01:41:17,572 --> 01:41:18,806 DETECT IT WAY TOO LATE. 3470 01:41:18,806 --> 01:41:20,275 BY THE TIME WE DETECT IT, IT'S 3471 01:41:20,275 --> 01:41:21,843 WAY TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING 3472 01:41:21,843 --> 01:41:22,344 ABOUT IT. 3473 01:41:22,344 --> 01:41:25,613 AND HE SENT E-MAILS OFF TO THE 3474 01:41:25,613 --> 01:41:26,848 ENTIRE ONCOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT 3475 01:41:26,848 --> 01:41:27,949 JOHNS HOPKINS -- YOU KNOW, 3476 01:41:27,949 --> 01:41:29,251 HUNDREDS OF THEM -- AND EVERY-- 3477 01:41:29,251 --> 01:41:30,051 14-YEAR-OLD? 3478 01:41:30,051 --> 01:41:31,153 14-YEAR-OLD KID, YEAH. 3479 01:41:31,153 --> 01:41:32,287 AND MOST OF THEM IGNORED IT, 3480 01:41:32,287 --> 01:41:32,820 RIGHT? 3481 01:41:32,820 --> 01:41:34,156 BUT ONE OF THEM, LIKE, SENT HIM 3482 01:41:34,156 --> 01:41:35,590 AN E-MAIL BACK AND SAID, "THIS 3483 01:41:35,590 --> 01:41:36,858 IS NOT AN ENTIRELY STUPID IDEA. 3484 01:41:36,858 --> 01:41:38,059 WHY DON'T YOU COME ON OVER?" 3485 01:41:38,059 --> 01:41:39,661 AND THIS KID WORKED EVENINGS AND 3486 01:41:39,661 --> 01:41:41,028 WEEKENDS WITH THIS RESEARCHER. 3487 01:41:41,028 --> 01:41:42,597 AND IN FEBRUARY, I HEARD HIM ON 3488 01:41:42,597 --> 01:41:44,031 THE NEWS, JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS 3489 01:41:44,031 --> 01:41:45,600 AFTER AARON DIED WHEN AARON WAS 3490 01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:50,305 IN THE NEWS A LOT. 3491 01:41:50,305 --> 01:41:52,307 SORRY. 3492 01:41:52,307 --> 01:41:54,676 [ Voice breaking ] AND HE SAID 3493 01:41:54,676 --> 01:41:56,978 THE REASON HE WAS ON THE NEWS IS 3494 01:41:56,978 --> 01:41:58,746 'CAUSE THEY'D DONE IT. 3495 01:41:58,746 --> 01:42:00,715 THEY WERE SHIPPING AN EARLY TEST 3496 01:42:00,715 --> 01:42:02,317 FOR PANCREATIC CANCER THAT WAS 3497 01:42:02,317 --> 01:42:03,418 GONNA SAVE LIVES. 3498 01:42:03,418 --> 01:42:06,120 AND HE SAID, "THIS IS WHY WHAT 3499 01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,924 AARON DID WAS SO IMPORTANT." 3500 01:42:09,924 --> 01:42:11,726 BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW, RIGHT? 3501 01:42:11,726 --> 01:42:13,328 THIS TRUTH OF THE UNIVERSE IS 3502 01:42:13,328 --> 01:42:14,862 NOT ONLY SOMETHING THAT 3503 01:42:14,862 --> 01:42:16,698 POLICYMAKERS USE TO FIGURE OUT, 3504 01:42:16,698 --> 01:42:18,333 YOU KNOW, WHAT THE SPEED LIMIT 3505 01:42:18,333 --> 01:42:19,133 SHOULD BE. 3506 01:42:19,133 --> 01:42:20,935 IT'S WHERE THE THING THAT'S 3507 01:42:20,935 --> 01:42:22,904 GONNA KEEP, YOU KNOW, YOUR KID 3508 01:42:22,904 --> 01:42:24,906 FROM DYING OF PANCREATIC CANCER 3509 01:42:24,906 --> 01:42:25,807 COMES FROM. 3510 01:42:25,807 --> 01:42:27,942 AND WITHOUT ACCESS, THE PERSON 3511 01:42:27,942 --> 01:42:30,144 WHO MIGHT COME UP WITH THE THING 3512 01:42:30,144 --> 01:42:32,380 THAT'S GOT YOUR NUMBER ON IT MAY 3513 01:42:32,380 --> 01:42:35,250 NEVER FIND THAT ANSWER. 3514 01:42:35,250 --> 01:42:38,253 "HE SLEEP SO WELL, HE DIDN'T 3515 01:42:38,253 --> 01:42:42,657 FALL OUT OF BED ONCE, NOT EVEN 3516 01:42:42,657 --> 01:42:45,327 WHEN HE DREAMED HE WAS BACK ON 3517 01:42:45,327 --> 01:42:47,762 THE SPACECRAFT." 3518 01:42:47,762 --> 01:42:49,197 VERY GOOD, AARON! 3519 01:42:49,197 --> 01:42:50,932 VERY GOOD! YAY, AARON! 3520 01:42:50,932 --> 01:42:53,000 OKAY! 3521 01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:57,239 NOW IT'S SONG TIME. 3522 01:42:57,239 --> 01:43:00,074 [ SOFT GUITAR MUSIC PLAYING ] 216488

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