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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:17,376 --> 00:00:22,275 MAN: As a journalist, you are consumed by two questions constantly: 2 00:00:22,375 --> 00:00:25,554 how to tell a story, but perhaps more crucially, 3 00:00:25,654 --> 00:00:27,654 why to tell a story. 4 00:00:28,853 --> 00:00:30,873 Imagine a country. 5 00:00:30,973 --> 00:00:32,973 Nice weather. Let's give it nice weather. 6 00:00:33,453 --> 00:00:35,452 Nice weather for England, anyway. 7 00:00:36,132 --> 00:00:38,152 Imagine the people in this country 8 00:00:38,252 --> 00:00:41,351 believe they are living in a democracy. 9 00:00:41,451 --> 00:00:44,070 Believe in their own freedom. 10 00:00:44,170 --> 00:00:47,510 But they are being abused by a power so everyday 11 00:00:47,610 --> 00:00:49,549 they don't know to look for it. 12 00:00:49,649 --> 00:00:53,548 A treacherous combination of press, the police, and politicians, 13 00:00:53,648 --> 00:00:55,648 that hide in plain sight. 14 00:00:56,408 --> 00:00:59,007 Imagine a country where that concealment was... 15 00:01:00,527 --> 00:01:02,107 Imagine a country where... 16 00:01:02,207 --> 00:01:04,386 where the news organisations... 17 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,026 - Shit! - (CAR HORN HONKS) 18 00:01:06,126 --> 00:01:08,345 Imagine it all deleted. 19 00:01:08,445 --> 00:01:10,445 (SIGHS) Florid nonsense. 20 00:01:12,764 --> 00:01:15,224 My name is Nick Davies. 21 00:01:15,324 --> 00:01:16,943 I am a journalist, 22 00:01:17,043 --> 00:01:20,823 and this is a story that ends in seven major police investigations, 23 00:01:20,923 --> 00:01:23,022 nearly 40 convictions, 24 00:01:23,122 --> 00:01:25,502 and some of the most powerful people in this country 25 00:01:25,602 --> 00:01:26,941 being brought to their knees. 26 00:01:27,041 --> 00:01:29,641 (GROANS) Too grand, too grand, too grand. 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,939 (CLEARS THROAT) My name is Nick Davies. 28 00:01:37,039 --> 00:01:38,179 I'm a journalist. 29 00:01:38,279 --> 00:01:40,099 Good morning. I'll just check in. 30 00:01:40,199 --> 00:01:42,218 This all started with Stuart Kuttner. 31 00:01:42,318 --> 00:01:43,258 Hello. 32 00:01:43,358 --> 00:01:45,358 (GROANS) No. 33 00:01:47,397 --> 00:01:49,397 (CLICKS TONGUE) 34 00:01:51,756 --> 00:01:54,936 This is the most troubling story I've ever written. 35 00:01:55,036 --> 00:01:59,855 A story about the abuse of power and the concealment of truth. 36 00:01:59,955 --> 00:02:02,494 Hi. Nick Davies for the Today programme. 37 00:02:02,594 --> 00:02:04,594 I'm late. 38 00:02:12,152 --> 00:02:15,331 British journalism is sloppy and morally bankrupt. 39 00:02:15,431 --> 00:02:18,811 That is the claim of the journalist Nick Davies, who's written a book 40 00:02:18,911 --> 00:02:21,890 that shows how often newspapers use illegal methods 41 00:02:21,990 --> 00:02:23,250 for getting their stories. 42 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:27,009 It's called Flat Earth News, and Nick Davies joins us now. 43 00:02:27,109 --> 00:02:28,609 - Good morning. - Hi. 44 00:02:28,709 --> 00:02:32,728 You say "sloppy" because newspapers use press releases 45 00:02:32,828 --> 00:02:34,407 rather than getting their own stories 46 00:02:34,507 --> 00:02:38,247 and "morally bankrupt" because of the illegality involved. 47 00:02:38,347 --> 00:02:41,686 Really, the root that binds together all the different themes 48 00:02:41,786 --> 00:02:43,486 is that the logic of journalism 49 00:02:43,586 --> 00:02:46,645 has been overwhelmed by the logic of commercialism. 50 00:02:46,745 --> 00:02:49,044 Journalists no longer have the time or the resources 51 00:02:49,144 --> 00:02:50,084 to do their jobs properly. 52 00:02:50,184 --> 00:02:52,404 Instead, they're just passive processors 53 00:02:52,504 --> 00:02:54,803 of unchecked, second-hand material. 54 00:02:54,903 --> 00:02:57,603 Okay, but you... You also... You go much further in suggesting that 55 00:02:57,703 --> 00:03:00,482 - there has been criminality involved. - Sure. 56 00:03:00,582 --> 00:03:03,081 And that's generally accepted within the press. 57 00:03:03,181 --> 00:03:06,361 Okay. So, principally, that involves hiring private investigators. 58 00:03:06,461 --> 00:03:09,360 They hire private investigators to get your bank statements, 59 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:12,320 your credit card statements, your itemised phone bills, 60 00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:13,479 your tax records, 61 00:03:13,579 --> 00:03:15,559 even your health records these creatures are getting. 62 00:03:15,659 --> 00:03:16,599 All of that is illegal. 63 00:03:16,699 --> 00:03:18,398 Okay. We're joined by John Mullin, 64 00:03:18,498 --> 00:03:20,718 who is the editor of The Independent on Sunday, 65 00:03:20,818 --> 00:03:21,998 and Stuart Kuttner, 66 00:03:22,098 --> 00:03:24,157 who's managing editor of News of the World. 67 00:03:24,257 --> 00:03:27,196 John Mullin, do you recognise this? 68 00:03:27,296 --> 00:03:31,116 Well, I ploughed my way through the first half of the book, 69 00:03:31,216 --> 00:03:33,275 not the second half so far, 70 00:03:33,375 --> 00:03:35,915 and no one can deny that life in journalism 71 00:03:36,015 --> 00:03:39,634 is much harder than maybe it was 20, 30 years ago. 72 00:03:39,734 --> 00:03:44,833 But to say that journalism as a whole is a passive processor of news? 73 00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:47,392 - I think that's erroneous. - SARAH: Stuart Kuttner? 74 00:03:47,492 --> 00:03:49,472 Yes, I'll tell you what I think. 75 00:03:49,572 --> 00:03:53,351 I think, frankly, listening to Nick Davies, 76 00:03:53,451 --> 00:03:56,950 I thought he was speaking from a newsroom on another planet. 77 00:03:57,050 --> 00:03:59,790 - (CHUCKLES) - It is totally unrecognisable to me. 78 00:03:59,890 --> 00:04:02,789 Many years in newspapers in Fleet Street. 79 00:04:02,889 --> 00:04:04,869 Now, of course, at the News of the World. 80 00:04:04,969 --> 00:04:07,368 But what did he say that was so wrong? 81 00:04:08,488 --> 00:04:13,467 Well, he talks about, if you like, shortcuts, PR interests, 82 00:04:13,567 --> 00:04:14,707 commercial interest. 83 00:04:14,807 --> 00:04:18,066 I have to tell you, none of my News of the World journalists 84 00:04:18,166 --> 00:04:19,946 would recognise that at all. 85 00:04:20,046 --> 00:04:22,385 But what about the way these people get the stories 86 00:04:22,485 --> 00:04:25,624 and access to personal information? 87 00:04:25,724 --> 00:04:29,584 Well, if it happens, it... it shouldn't happen. 88 00:04:29,684 --> 00:04:32,023 It happened once at the News of the World. 89 00:04:32,123 --> 00:04:33,663 The reporter was fired, 90 00:04:33,763 --> 00:04:36,622 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 91 00:04:36,722 --> 00:04:39,222 And while Nick is talking about all this, 92 00:04:39,322 --> 00:04:43,021 I notice he doesn't mention The Guardian's own act of criminality 93 00:04:43,121 --> 00:04:44,980 when The Guardian forged 94 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,940 the signature of a cabinet minister... 95 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,099 Okay, I-I-I don't want to go into details of the story. 96 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:50,259 I think the charge that Nick Davies... 97 00:04:50,359 --> 00:04:52,139 KUTTNER: Sarah, you may not want to go into detail, 98 00:04:52,239 --> 00:04:56,378 but Nick makes a broad-brush, sweeping attack on our profession, 99 00:04:56,478 --> 00:04:59,297 which I happen to believe is an honourable profession. 100 00:04:59,397 --> 00:05:01,597 (VOICES MINGLE, ECHO) 101 00:05:04,196 --> 00:05:06,696 - (PHONES RINGING) - (INDISTINCT CHATTERING) 102 00:05:06,796 --> 00:05:07,736 MAN: Hello, Mr... 103 00:05:07,836 --> 00:05:09,835 (PHONES CONTINUE RINGING) 104 00:05:14,354 --> 00:05:15,294 You hear it? 105 00:05:15,394 --> 00:05:16,894 I wish I hadn't. 106 00:05:16,994 --> 00:05:18,453 (SIGHS) 107 00:05:18,553 --> 00:05:20,093 You're too kind. 108 00:05:20,193 --> 00:05:23,532 I did say, appearing on the Today programme to attack journalism 109 00:05:23,632 --> 00:05:25,732 wasn't exactly the most sensible idea. 110 00:05:25,832 --> 00:05:28,051 Listen, before I go home, I wanted to talk to you about something. 111 00:05:28,151 --> 00:05:30,611 Good thing was, you weren't representing The Guardian. 112 00:05:30,711 --> 00:05:32,930 You were talking about your book. 113 00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:34,210 My book. 114 00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:37,489 Although, Kuttner did have a good go at trying to besmirch us through you. 115 00:05:37,589 --> 00:05:39,729 I want out. 116 00:05:39,829 --> 00:05:43,848 (SIGHS) Do you know anything about baking competitions? 117 00:05:43,948 --> 00:05:44,888 No. 118 00:05:44,988 --> 00:05:48,147 I want to know how many people cheat at baking competitions. 119 00:05:49,147 --> 00:05:50,087 A round number. 120 00:05:50,187 --> 00:05:53,206 Sounds like exactly the sort of thing the Guardian should be investigating. 121 00:05:53,306 --> 00:05:54,686 I don't mean out altogether. 122 00:05:54,786 --> 00:05:56,046 I'd like to go to Brussels, 123 00:05:56,146 --> 00:05:58,125 investigate a whole new horizon, something well paid. 124 00:05:58,225 --> 00:05:59,725 - Naturally. - That will allow me to commute. 125 00:05:59,825 --> 00:06:01,564 The kids are old enough now to be able to... 126 00:06:01,664 --> 00:06:03,664 I need you here. 127 00:06:04,624 --> 00:06:06,563 - (PHONES RINGING) - (INDISTINCT CHATTERING) 128 00:06:06,663 --> 00:06:08,603 ALAN: Sadiq Khan. Bugged. 129 00:06:08,703 --> 00:06:10,443 Forty-year convention breached. 130 00:06:10,543 --> 00:06:13,162 And why? Keep the Americans happy. 131 00:06:13,262 --> 00:06:14,842 Needs a good journalist. 132 00:06:14,942 --> 00:06:16,521 Alan, I'm knackered. Nobody likes me. I know. 133 00:06:16,621 --> 00:06:20,301 Oh, come on. I like you... some of the time. 134 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:23,880 And I'm sure there are a few others who-who also... 135 00:06:23,980 --> 00:06:25,639 Please. 136 00:06:25,739 --> 00:06:29,479 Self-pity is not a redeeming quality. We'll talk tomorrow. 137 00:06:29,579 --> 00:06:33,038 I'm freelance precisely so that I don't need to talk to you tomorrow. 138 00:06:33,138 --> 00:06:36,437 You're freelance with more or less a sole employer. 139 00:06:36,537 --> 00:06:38,637 I say you should talk to me tomorrow. 140 00:06:38,737 --> 00:06:40,076 Hmm? 141 00:06:40,176 --> 00:06:41,756 We've all been roasted by Stuart bloody Kuttner. 142 00:06:41,856 --> 00:06:43,856 Bye. 143 00:06:50,254 --> 00:06:53,194 Let me explain. Alan is, um... 144 00:06:53,294 --> 00:06:56,033 Well, we grew up together. In journalism, that is. 145 00:06:56,133 --> 00:06:58,433 - And he's always understood... Sorry. - (PHONE VIBRATING) 146 00:06:58,533 --> 00:07:00,952 - Yep. - MAN ON PHONE: Nick Davies? 147 00:07:01,052 --> 00:07:02,152 Who's this? 148 00:07:02,252 --> 00:07:03,272 My name is... 149 00:07:03,372 --> 00:07:05,551 - (BLEEP) - Redacted, sorry. 150 00:07:05,651 --> 00:07:07,551 We'll call him Mr Apollo, because... 151 00:07:07,651 --> 00:07:10,390 Um, well, actually, because he's... 152 00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:12,070 It-It doesn't matter. 153 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:13,749 How did you get this number? 154 00:07:13,849 --> 00:07:15,829 Listen, Kuttner made a mistake. 155 00:07:15,929 --> 00:07:16,869 Well, I made several. 156 00:07:16,969 --> 00:07:19,748 Chief amongst them appearing on the Today programme. 157 00:07:19,848 --> 00:07:21,708 He said it happened once. 158 00:07:21,808 --> 00:07:23,028 It happened once. 159 00:07:23,128 --> 00:07:25,027 It happened once at the News of the World. 160 00:07:25,127 --> 00:07:26,787 The reporter was fired, 161 00:07:26,887 --> 00:07:29,706 he went to prison, the editor resigned. 162 00:07:29,806 --> 00:07:32,026 You're talking about phone hacking. 163 00:07:32,126 --> 00:07:34,585 Nick, your book only scratched the surface. 164 00:07:34,685 --> 00:07:38,944 We have to meet face to face, somewhere absolutely discreet. 165 00:07:39,044 --> 00:07:40,944 I think you'll like what I have. 166 00:07:41,044 --> 00:07:43,063 Where and when? 167 00:07:43,163 --> 00:07:45,183 In the beginning, it was next to nothing. 168 00:07:45,283 --> 00:07:48,782 Two men were arrested for hacking phones in 2006: 169 00:07:48,882 --> 00:07:50,862 a private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire... 170 00:07:50,962 --> 00:07:54,221 And the royal editor of the News of the World, Clive Goodman. 171 00:07:54,321 --> 00:07:57,860 The sentences they received were short. 172 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,040 The attention they got, limited. But the crime was unusual. 173 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,779 They had discovered they could access other people's voicemail messages, 174 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:10,178 and they spent months eavesdropping on three of Prince William's staff 175 00:08:10,278 --> 00:08:11,697 at Clarence House. 176 00:08:11,797 --> 00:08:13,777 How? They didn't say. 177 00:08:13,877 --> 00:08:17,956 Why? For the discovery of private information. 178 00:08:20,476 --> 00:08:22,835 It was the start of the next six years of my life. 179 00:08:35,832 --> 00:08:37,372 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 180 00:08:37,472 --> 00:08:41,051 To be clear, I've never told anyone who Mr Apollo is. 181 00:08:41,151 --> 00:08:43,151 So some guesses have been made. 182 00:08:45,790 --> 00:08:47,790 Bad guess. 183 00:08:48,710 --> 00:08:50,709 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 184 00:08:52,589 --> 00:08:54,489 No. 185 00:08:54,589 --> 00:08:56,588 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 186 00:08:57,708 --> 00:08:59,827 No. I'm sorry. It's not you. 187 00:09:01,267 --> 00:09:03,267 - (KNOCKING ON DOOR) - Okay. (CLEARS THROAT) 188 00:09:04,107 --> 00:09:06,106 Oh, come on. 189 00:09:06,826 --> 00:09:08,826 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 190 00:09:10,625 --> 00:09:12,125 (SIGHS) 191 00:09:12,225 --> 00:09:13,525 Hi. 192 00:09:13,625 --> 00:09:16,824 - You coming in, or...? - Sure. 193 00:09:20,703 --> 00:09:22,483 Wow, this is nice. 194 00:09:22,583 --> 00:09:25,242 (CHURCH BELLS RINGING IN DISTANCE) 195 00:09:25,342 --> 00:09:27,342 Nice choice of room. 196 00:09:28,542 --> 00:09:29,881 Just to check. Is The Guardian paying? 197 00:09:29,981 --> 00:09:33,201 Because if so, I'd implore you to stay away from that mini bar. 198 00:09:33,301 --> 00:09:35,040 Mulcaire, in the trial, 199 00:09:35,140 --> 00:09:37,480 - he said he'd hacked other... - Five non-royals. 200 00:09:37,580 --> 00:09:43,658 I remember. Yes. Um, Elle Macpherson, Sky Andrew, Max Clifford... 201 00:09:44,778 --> 00:09:46,438 He's a liar. 202 00:09:46,538 --> 00:09:49,857 Kuttner is a liar, and one of the five is suing them. 203 00:09:51,977 --> 00:09:53,976 Which one? 204 00:09:54,336 --> 00:09:56,376 Well, that five is just the tip of the iceberg. 205 00:09:58,055 --> 00:10:01,475 Hacking phones at the News of the World has been endemic. 206 00:10:01,575 --> 00:10:02,514 Endemic? 207 00:10:02,614 --> 00:10:04,794 Mm. 208 00:10:04,894 --> 00:10:07,793 They pick up their leads by intercepting voicemails, 209 00:10:07,893 --> 00:10:10,833 and only then do they get photographs and quotes 210 00:10:10,933 --> 00:10:12,552 so as to lay a false trail. 211 00:10:12,652 --> 00:10:15,352 To pretend they found the story through legitimate means. 212 00:10:15,452 --> 00:10:17,451 They've hacked thousands. 213 00:10:17,851 --> 00:10:20,211 Here. Dial a number. 214 00:10:21,211 --> 00:10:23,210 Someone who's likely to not answer. 215 00:10:27,889 --> 00:10:30,109 (DIAL TONE) 216 00:10:30,209 --> 00:10:31,548 ALAN: This is Alan Rusbridger. Please leave... 217 00:10:31,648 --> 00:10:33,308 That's your phone-a-friend? 218 00:10:33,408 --> 00:10:35,408 The editor of The Guardian? 219 00:10:36,048 --> 00:10:37,867 - Press nine. - (BEEPS) 220 00:10:37,967 --> 00:10:39,227 AUTOMATED VOICE: Please enter your 4-digit PIN. 221 00:10:39,327 --> 00:10:40,827 Now enter one, two, three, four. 222 00:10:40,927 --> 00:10:42,306 That's the factory setting. 223 00:10:42,406 --> 00:10:43,426 (BEEPING) 224 00:10:43,526 --> 00:10:45,466 AUTOMATED VOICE: Welcome to your voicemail. 225 00:10:45,566 --> 00:10:47,985 You have one new message. 226 00:10:48,085 --> 00:10:49,865 WOMAN: Alan, it's Mummy. 227 00:10:49,965 --> 00:10:51,224 I'm just calling about Jill Wyatt. 228 00:10:51,324 --> 00:10:53,584 She won best sponge again, and I'm sure she cheated... 229 00:10:53,684 --> 00:10:55,703 - (BEEPS) - I don't wanna hear this. 230 00:10:55,803 --> 00:10:57,183 - It's that easy? - Mm. 231 00:10:57,283 --> 00:10:59,663 It doesn't even need a Glenn Mulcaire most of the time. 232 00:10:59,763 --> 00:11:01,702 And you're saying this was widespread? 233 00:11:01,802 --> 00:11:04,822 Glenn's main job was that when it got tricky, 234 00:11:04,922 --> 00:11:06,621 unlike with your Alan, 235 00:11:06,721 --> 00:11:08,421 was to blag the mobile phone companies 236 00:11:08,521 --> 00:11:10,380 into resetting the celebrities' PIN codes 237 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,340 to their original factory setting. 238 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:13,900 One, two, three, four. 239 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,219 - (PHONE VIBRATES) - That's Alan. 240 00:11:16,319 --> 00:11:18,579 - Please. - ALAN: Who is this? 241 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,178 - Hi. Yeah, it's Nick. - (ALAN GROANS) 242 00:11:20,278 --> 00:11:22,618 Listen, change the voicemail settings on your phone. 243 00:11:22,718 --> 00:11:24,258 And how do I do that? 244 00:11:24,358 --> 00:11:26,417 Ask a young person. I've got to go. Bye. 245 00:11:26,517 --> 00:11:27,857 (BEEPS) 246 00:11:27,957 --> 00:11:28,897 Who is suing? 247 00:11:28,997 --> 00:11:30,576 (INHALES DEEPLY) 248 00:11:30,676 --> 00:11:33,896 The person who is, is currently trying to get Scotland Yard 249 00:11:33,996 --> 00:11:37,055 to hand over evidence they collected and did nothing with 250 00:11:37,155 --> 00:11:39,154 when they arrested Mulcaire. 251 00:11:39,994 --> 00:11:42,254 It's evidence that could... (SIGHS) 252 00:11:42,354 --> 00:11:45,813 ...burn, fuck and destroy everything. Twice over. 253 00:11:45,913 --> 00:11:49,072 You won't tell me which one of the five it is, will you? 254 00:11:51,712 --> 00:11:53,331 I will tell you 255 00:11:53,431 --> 00:11:55,431 that you're missing two names. 256 00:11:55,831 --> 00:11:58,170 Gordon Taylor and Simon Hughes. 257 00:11:58,270 --> 00:12:00,270 Will you go on the record? 258 00:12:01,030 --> 00:12:02,570 (SIGHS) 259 00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:04,409 If you dig, it comes from you. 260 00:12:04,509 --> 00:12:08,268 I-I can... I can confirm things, but... (SIGHS) 261 00:12:12,148 --> 00:12:14,887 It's just another story of journos behaving badly. 262 00:12:14,987 --> 00:12:16,487 You're not interested. 263 00:12:16,587 --> 00:12:18,586 It's interesting, but... 264 00:12:18,946 --> 00:12:19,926 you should talk to someone else. 265 00:12:20,026 --> 00:12:21,686 Do you realise I could lose my job just by talking to you? 266 00:12:21,786 --> 00:12:23,285 Don't worry. This conversation never happened. 267 00:12:23,385 --> 00:12:25,605 No, no, no. That's not my point, Nick. 268 00:12:25,705 --> 00:12:28,344 You... Think. Think who edited the paper. 269 00:12:30,304 --> 00:12:32,303 Think about where he sits now. 270 00:12:34,423 --> 00:12:36,623 You're talking about Andy Coulson. 271 00:12:38,542 --> 00:12:40,542 Stop him. 272 00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:43,301 Shit. 273 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:48,960 AUTOMATED VOICE: Mind the gap. 274 00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:50,840 Stand clear of the doors, please. 275 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:53,719 Andy Coulson, a rapid ascent journalist. 276 00:12:53,819 --> 00:12:56,238 From a local reporter to Showbiz at The Sun, 277 00:12:56,338 --> 00:12:59,398 he was made editor of News of the World in 2003. 278 00:12:59,498 --> 00:13:03,237 Even after he resigned in 2007 over the original phone hacking case, 279 00:13:03,337 --> 00:13:04,357 it was seen as honourable, 280 00:13:04,457 --> 00:13:07,316 him carrying the can for the one rogue reporter. 281 00:13:07,416 --> 00:13:09,616 Not me really, guv. 282 00:13:10,895 --> 00:13:12,895 But if he was... If he is... 283 00:13:13,295 --> 00:13:15,274 If this is endemic, 284 00:13:15,374 --> 00:13:18,114 he's David Cameron's communications director. 285 00:13:18,214 --> 00:13:21,253 For him to be involved in widespread criminality... 286 00:13:23,613 --> 00:13:25,612 No, no. Bad idea. 287 00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:36,970 (DOORBELL RINGS) 288 00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:39,509 I'm not late. 289 00:13:39,609 --> 00:13:41,549 WOMAN: It would be fine if you were to be a bit late. 290 00:13:41,649 --> 00:13:42,789 You don't need to be so worried. 291 00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:43,869 Are they ready? 292 00:13:43,969 --> 00:13:45,968 - WOMAN: Are they ever ready? - Kids? 293 00:13:46,728 --> 00:13:47,908 WOMAN: You okay? 294 00:13:48,008 --> 00:13:49,187 Kids? 295 00:13:49,287 --> 00:13:51,827 - BOY: Yes, coming. - Ooh, you're anxious to go, then. 296 00:13:51,927 --> 00:13:53,707 Sorry. How are you, et cetera? 297 00:13:53,807 --> 00:13:55,946 I'm fine, et cetera. Are you all right? 298 00:13:56,046 --> 00:13:56,986 Never better. 299 00:13:57,086 --> 00:13:58,106 Really? 300 00:13:58,206 --> 00:13:59,265 I heard you on the radio. 301 00:13:59,365 --> 00:14:01,865 - Hmm. - That sort of performance help sales? 302 00:14:01,965 --> 00:14:03,964 - Oh, I would doubt it. - Mm. 303 00:14:05,324 --> 00:14:08,423 - I'm, um... I am worried about... - (BLEEP) 304 00:14:08,523 --> 00:14:11,103 I'm not going to reveal my child's name. 305 00:14:11,203 --> 00:14:14,022 Let's call him... Beans. 306 00:14:14,122 --> 00:14:16,422 He comes home, locks himself in his room. 307 00:14:16,522 --> 00:14:20,061 - I have tried to talk to him, but... - He avoids all questions. 308 00:14:20,161 --> 00:14:22,641 So, do we bring the school in? 309 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,819 Let's get the details, make sure he wants the help. 310 00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:29,919 Oh, you sound like a journalist. 311 00:14:30,719 --> 00:14:32,718 Let me try. 312 00:14:35,118 --> 00:14:37,118 Let me try. 313 00:14:38,357 --> 00:14:40,357 Okay. 314 00:14:53,674 --> 00:14:54,774 NICK: Got a new recipe. 315 00:14:54,874 --> 00:14:57,413 - Okay, Dad. - Stuffed tomato thing. 316 00:14:57,513 --> 00:14:58,573 Yeah, nice. Sounds good. 317 00:14:58,673 --> 00:15:00,333 I'll call you when it's ready. It's Turkish. 318 00:15:00,433 --> 00:15:02,252 - GIRL: Yep. - NICK: So... 319 00:15:02,352 --> 00:15:04,352 I met someone today. 320 00:15:05,272 --> 00:15:06,211 A source. 321 00:15:06,311 --> 00:15:09,611 He was pissed off with what Kuttner said on the radio. 322 00:15:09,711 --> 00:15:10,691 Okay. 323 00:15:10,791 --> 00:15:14,050 Hacking was "endemic", he said, at News of the World. 324 00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:15,969 And someone is now suing Scotland Yard 325 00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:17,889 for information on what was hacked. 326 00:15:17,989 --> 00:15:22,408 Now, I know... I know it's one of either Elle Macpherson, Simon Hughes, 327 00:15:22,508 --> 00:15:24,928 Gordon Taylor, Sky Andrew, or Max Clifford. 328 00:15:25,028 --> 00:15:26,127 But I don't know which one. 329 00:15:26,227 --> 00:15:28,167 What do you think? 330 00:15:28,267 --> 00:15:29,927 Do I dig? 331 00:15:30,027 --> 00:15:32,846 Try to find out who it is? If I find them, it might... 332 00:15:32,946 --> 00:15:34,086 We might get some evidence 333 00:15:34,186 --> 00:15:36,725 that proves foul play was a bit more widespread. 334 00:15:36,825 --> 00:15:38,085 Imagine what it does to Andy Coulson. 335 00:15:38,185 --> 00:15:41,164 He's about to... He could soon have keys to 10 Downing Street. 336 00:15:41,264 --> 00:15:43,124 Did Cameron even do a fit-and-proper-person test on him? 337 00:15:43,224 --> 00:15:45,223 Did he even look into Coulson's past? 338 00:15:46,263 --> 00:15:51,082 It's a good angle, but another "tabloids behaving badly" story? 339 00:15:51,182 --> 00:15:53,322 I said the same thing. 340 00:15:53,422 --> 00:15:56,081 And who wants to kick a bee's nest? 341 00:15:56,181 --> 00:15:58,201 Murdoch, you know? 342 00:15:58,301 --> 00:16:00,120 This source. 343 00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:02,560 Has he got under your skin? 344 00:16:02,660 --> 00:16:06,299 No. I just wanted to talk it out with someone. You. 345 00:16:07,299 --> 00:16:11,598 Ah. Always grateful to be your sounding board. 346 00:16:11,698 --> 00:16:13,698 Go home, Alan. 347 00:16:14,057 --> 00:16:15,437 Who says I'm in the office? 348 00:16:15,537 --> 00:16:17,857 NICK: We'll always have Brussels. Bye. 349 00:16:22,016 --> 00:16:24,015 (FOOTBALL COMMENTARY) 350 00:16:31,454 --> 00:16:34,793 It's creepy when you do that. Stare at me like that. 351 00:16:34,893 --> 00:16:36,953 How are you? 352 00:16:37,053 --> 00:16:38,912 Why are you asking? 353 00:16:39,012 --> 00:16:40,872 If there ever is anything you need to discuss... 354 00:16:40,972 --> 00:16:42,971 Yes, Dad. I know. 355 00:16:44,531 --> 00:16:46,531 (COMMENTARY CONTINUES) 356 00:17:04,527 --> 00:17:07,226 I, um... I never much liked school. 357 00:17:07,326 --> 00:17:08,826 I'm not being bullied. 358 00:17:08,926 --> 00:17:10,626 I always saw school as a necessity... 359 00:17:10,726 --> 00:17:12,585 Why does everyone always think I'm being bullied? 360 00:17:12,685 --> 00:17:14,685 ...not a virtue. There was a guy... 361 00:17:15,765 --> 00:17:17,844 who-who-who used to hit us. 362 00:17:20,244 --> 00:17:21,743 Another kid? 363 00:17:21,843 --> 00:17:23,843 Actually, a teacher. 364 00:17:24,483 --> 00:17:26,302 He used to... 365 00:17:26,402 --> 00:17:27,622 God, he used to really scare me. 366 00:17:27,722 --> 00:17:29,722 I-I never used to do well. 367 00:17:30,042 --> 00:17:31,981 Um... 368 00:17:32,081 --> 00:17:33,981 Well, I never used to do well with fear, 369 00:17:34,081 --> 00:17:36,180 but also the thing I remember most clearly: 370 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,280 rage. 371 00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:44,799 I heard you on the radio. 372 00:17:45,758 --> 00:17:47,758 You listen to the Today programme? 373 00:17:48,678 --> 00:17:50,997 Mum makes us listen to or read everything you do. 374 00:17:52,277 --> 00:17:54,797 "You've an impressive dad," and she says it like, 375 00:17:55,796 --> 00:17:58,416 "He may be a total dick, but he's impressive." 376 00:17:58,516 --> 00:18:00,555 (SCOFFS) All right. 377 00:18:04,075 --> 00:18:06,334 You know the story of the dung beetle? 378 00:18:06,434 --> 00:18:08,134 God. Really, again? 379 00:18:08,234 --> 00:18:11,453 - If you want to fly free... - First you have to eat a lot of shit. 380 00:18:11,553 --> 00:18:13,653 Sometimes you have to ignore bullies. 381 00:18:13,753 --> 00:18:15,932 - I'm not being bullied. - Sometimes you have to puncture them. 382 00:18:16,032 --> 00:18:18,132 - I'm not, Dad, - There's always a way to... 383 00:18:18,232 --> 00:18:20,011 There's always a chance... When the wankers... 384 00:18:20,111 --> 00:18:21,851 when they suddenly seem vulnerable. 385 00:18:21,951 --> 00:18:24,090 When they are, 386 00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:27,850 you have to clamp your pincers onto them as hard as possible. 387 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:29,949 Do not let go. 388 00:18:35,548 --> 00:18:36,888 (COMMENTARY CONTINUES) 389 00:18:36,988 --> 00:18:37,968 Tomatoes in the oven. 390 00:18:38,068 --> 00:18:40,067 Ready in ten. They're Turkish. 391 00:18:41,347 --> 00:18:43,346 I love you very much. 392 00:18:49,025 --> 00:18:51,025 (WOMAN'S DISTORTED VOICE) 393 00:18:51,825 --> 00:18:53,824 You stupid child. 394 00:18:54,344 --> 00:18:57,184 You are such a disappointment. 395 00:19:04,102 --> 00:19:05,242 It won't surprise you to know 396 00:19:05,342 --> 00:19:07,981 we didn't get the rights to use their masthead. 397 00:19:09,621 --> 00:19:11,621 Or this one. 398 00:19:17,699 --> 00:19:19,739 (PHONE DIALLING) 399 00:19:22,778 --> 00:19:24,998 - (PHONE RINGS) - Hi, it's Nick Davies. 400 00:19:25,098 --> 00:19:27,517 You still have that contact at Scotland Yard? 401 00:19:27,617 --> 00:19:29,037 MAN 1: No, sorry, mate. 402 00:19:29,137 --> 00:19:31,237 I really cannot be getting involved with that one. 403 00:19:31,337 --> 00:19:32,276 You know how it is. 404 00:19:32,376 --> 00:19:35,476 NICK: But Andy Coulson will soon be sitting in Downing Street. 405 00:19:35,576 --> 00:19:37,915 MAN 1: Yeah, and Murdoch's already sitting on Downing Street. 406 00:19:38,015 --> 00:19:39,315 Yeah. 407 00:19:39,415 --> 00:19:40,355 Yes, I appreciate that. 408 00:19:40,455 --> 00:19:42,674 I understand. If I could get some evidence of this. 409 00:19:42,774 --> 00:19:44,314 - MAN 1: No. - MAN 2: No. 410 00:19:44,414 --> 00:19:46,793 - MAN 3: No. - All right. Thanks. Bye. 411 00:19:46,893 --> 00:19:48,893 (PHONE RINGS) 412 00:19:52,132 --> 00:19:53,392 NICK: Oh, hi. Thanks for calling back. 413 00:19:53,492 --> 00:19:55,871 Do you have the number for... Name redacted. 414 00:19:55,971 --> 00:19:58,831 - See you later. - Yeah. 415 00:19:58,931 --> 00:20:00,930 Okay, great. Zero... 416 00:20:02,130 --> 00:20:07,349 seven, seven, zero, zero, nine, zero, zero, nine, 417 00:20:07,449 --> 00:20:10,148 five, four. Got that. 418 00:20:10,248 --> 00:20:11,628 Thank you. 419 00:20:11,728 --> 00:20:14,028 Hi. I'm wondering whether I could speak to 420 00:20:14,128 --> 00:20:16,127 whoever represents Elle Macpherson. 421 00:20:18,767 --> 00:20:19,746 No, no, I'm not a fan. 422 00:20:19,846 --> 00:20:21,026 No, I'm wondering whether 423 00:20:21,126 --> 00:20:23,626 she's currently suing the News of the World. 424 00:20:23,726 --> 00:20:25,705 Is that Max? 425 00:20:25,805 --> 00:20:27,705 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 426 00:20:27,805 --> 00:20:29,984 We met at The Orwell Prize. 427 00:20:30,084 --> 00:20:32,084 I'm actually after a bit of insight. 428 00:20:33,044 --> 00:20:35,043 Well, no. Just give me a chance. 429 00:20:46,601 --> 00:20:48,600 (SIGHS) 430 00:20:56,719 --> 00:20:58,498 Detective Buzz Aldrin? 431 00:20:58,598 --> 00:20:59,858 It's not his real name. 432 00:20:59,958 --> 00:21:00,938 My name is Nick Davies. 433 00:21:01,038 --> 00:21:02,178 I'm a Guardian journalist. 434 00:21:02,278 --> 00:21:03,556 I believe you were looking into the Clive Goodman case? 435 00:21:03,557 --> 00:21:05,217 I'm very busy, Mr Davies. 436 00:21:05,317 --> 00:21:07,217 I've followed your work, Buzz. I know how principled you are. 437 00:21:07,317 --> 00:21:10,336 I think you know that this... that what is happening here 438 00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:12,735 is acutely in the public interest, and if it's all dealt with 439 00:21:12,835 --> 00:21:14,135 in behind-stairs deals, it'll help no one. 440 00:21:14,235 --> 00:21:15,175 I can't talk to journalists. 441 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:17,015 You don't have to talk. 442 00:21:17,115 --> 00:21:19,414 All I need to know is which of the five non-royal names 443 00:21:19,514 --> 00:21:21,574 in the Clive Goodman case is now suing the paper. 444 00:21:21,674 --> 00:21:23,613 Cough. 445 00:21:23,713 --> 00:21:24,712 That's all I ask. Cough when I hit the right name. 446 00:21:24,713 --> 00:21:25,813 You are very, very persistent. 447 00:21:25,913 --> 00:21:29,172 Because what I understand is that those five names represent thousands, 448 00:21:29,272 --> 00:21:31,092 thousands of people who've had 449 00:21:31,192 --> 00:21:33,051 their privacy stolen by this newspaper. 450 00:21:33,151 --> 00:21:35,211 Please. 451 00:21:35,311 --> 00:21:37,790 Elle Macpherson, Simon Hughes, 452 00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:40,730 Gordon Taylor... 453 00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:43,149 - (BUZZ COUGHS) - Thank you. 454 00:21:44,749 --> 00:21:46,748 You did the right thing. 455 00:21:54,947 --> 00:21:56,946 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 456 00:22:02,825 --> 00:22:04,725 Sorry, excuse me. Charlotte Harris! 457 00:22:04,825 --> 00:22:06,004 Nick Davies at The Guardian. 458 00:22:06,104 --> 00:22:07,404 I believe you represent Gordon Taylor. 459 00:22:07,504 --> 00:22:08,564 I'm due in court. 460 00:22:08,664 --> 00:22:11,723 I understand that he's suing News of the World for breach of privacy. 461 00:22:11,823 --> 00:22:13,563 Mr Davies, whether or not Mr Taylor is my client, 462 00:22:13,663 --> 00:22:15,802 I have no interest in talking to any press. Sorry. 463 00:22:15,902 --> 00:22:20,881 These so-called journalists bring our whole industry into disrepute. 464 00:22:20,981 --> 00:22:22,981 You're very persistent. 465 00:22:23,541 --> 00:22:27,840 Well, can you... can you tell me then about John Hewison? 466 00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:30,079 He's also a claimant, is he not? 467 00:22:30,179 --> 00:22:32,519 And the interesting thing is, if you ask the public 468 00:22:32,619 --> 00:22:34,359 who those two are, they might know Taylor. 469 00:22:34,459 --> 00:22:37,078 They wouldn't know Hewison because he's a lawyer. 470 00:22:37,178 --> 00:22:38,278 Like you. 471 00:22:38,378 --> 00:22:40,437 He's entrusted with the secrets of others, 472 00:22:40,537 --> 00:22:42,797 in the secrets of sports stars in his case... 473 00:22:42,897 --> 00:22:46,396 which makes him interesting to the News of the World. 474 00:22:46,496 --> 00:22:48,236 This is a news operation, 475 00:22:48,336 --> 00:22:50,915 which is trying to undermine the confidentiality 476 00:22:51,015 --> 00:22:53,395 that crucially underlies your profession. 477 00:22:53,495 --> 00:22:55,594 If you want to fight it, 478 00:22:55,694 --> 00:22:58,394 well, you're a tiger, but they're lions. 479 00:22:58,494 --> 00:23:00,493 The Guardian's a lion, too. 480 00:23:00,973 --> 00:23:03,792 Well, what if I'm neither a lion nor a tiger? 481 00:23:03,892 --> 00:23:06,092 What if I am a walrus? 482 00:23:07,092 --> 00:23:09,091 Walruses can be fierce. 483 00:23:09,571 --> 00:23:10,951 And what if you're a... 484 00:23:11,051 --> 00:23:12,471 See, I'm trying to think of an annoying animal. 485 00:23:12,571 --> 00:23:14,550 - Has Mr Taylor settled? - (LAUGHS) 486 00:23:14,650 --> 00:23:15,710 What evidence do you have? 487 00:23:15,810 --> 00:23:17,150 Are there other claimants? 488 00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:20,229 I'm sure you must... you must be looking to engage more clients. 489 00:23:20,329 --> 00:23:23,228 Privacy cases like this can sometimes... (STUTTERS) 490 00:23:23,328 --> 00:23:24,468 What did Max Mosley get? 491 00:23:24,568 --> 00:23:27,348 Sixty thousand pounds, and costs. Line enough up, 492 00:23:27,448 --> 00:23:30,107 you could have a class-action suit worth a lot of money. 493 00:23:30,207 --> 00:23:33,606 You were doing well, reasonably well, until you brought money into it. 494 00:23:34,886 --> 00:23:37,146 I can't talk to you about specific cases, 495 00:23:37,246 --> 00:23:39,245 but I can tell you... 496 00:23:39,605 --> 00:23:42,404 I can tell you that there is so much more to come. 497 00:23:45,764 --> 00:23:47,763 (PHONE BEEPS) 498 00:23:50,043 --> 00:23:52,042 (PHONE VIBRATING) 499 00:23:53,722 --> 00:23:56,701 - Yep. - MR APOLLO: You've got the name. 500 00:23:56,801 --> 00:24:00,781 Mr Apollo, you're back. Are you watching me? 501 00:24:00,881 --> 00:24:03,720 MR APOLLO: I take it you're still interested in this case, then? 502 00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:11,498 NICK: The deer is in the fireplace. The lion is alight. 503 00:24:11,598 --> 00:24:13,598 MR APOLLO: What the fuck are you doing? 504 00:24:13,958 --> 00:24:15,777 NICK: Sorry, I make... I have a tendency to make jokes. 505 00:24:15,877 --> 00:24:17,917 I was trying to trying to be a Russian spy. 506 00:24:19,677 --> 00:24:20,936 MR APOLLO: We could be spotted at any moment. 507 00:24:21,036 --> 00:24:23,316 - Do you know the risks? - NICK: I do. Sorry. 508 00:24:25,116 --> 00:24:27,115 MR APOLLO: So you found the lawyer. 509 00:24:27,515 --> 00:24:28,535 Is this some kind of a test? 510 00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:30,654 Do I get a prize at the end of it? 511 00:24:30,754 --> 00:24:32,134 Do you know how much they're settling for? 512 00:24:32,234 --> 00:24:33,974 No. 513 00:24:34,074 --> 00:24:38,853 £400,000 in damages, another £300,000 in legal expenses, 514 00:24:38,953 --> 00:24:42,052 and their associates are getting £140,000 in damages, 515 00:24:42,152 --> 00:24:43,612 plus their legal. 516 00:24:43,712 --> 00:24:47,131 The whole package comes in at just over a million pounds. 517 00:24:47,231 --> 00:24:48,171 Now that's a lot, 518 00:24:48,271 --> 00:24:50,690 even for News International to stomach. 519 00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:52,770 But, 520 00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:56,929 Max Mosley was... They accused him of being a Nazi at an orgy. 521 00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:59,808 - All he got was... -£60,000, yes. 522 00:24:59,908 --> 00:25:01,908 Now you're getting it. 523 00:25:03,788 --> 00:25:04,727 NICK: Look, I need you. 524 00:25:04,827 --> 00:25:07,407 I need paperwork or-or audio recording, 525 00:25:07,507 --> 00:25:09,086 some sort of hard evidence, 526 00:25:09,186 --> 00:25:10,406 I don't even have to publish it. 527 00:25:10,506 --> 00:25:12,486 I just need to be able to show The Guardian. 528 00:25:12,586 --> 00:25:14,965 The preliminary hearings, in 2007, they're public record. 529 00:25:15,065 --> 00:25:17,065 That's not enough. 530 00:25:21,584 --> 00:25:23,583 MR APOLLO: All right. 531 00:25:26,783 --> 00:25:27,803 NICK: What is it? 532 00:25:27,903 --> 00:25:28,962 MR APOLLO: You'll work it out. 533 00:25:29,062 --> 00:25:30,162 - Can I use it? - Nope. 534 00:25:30,262 --> 00:25:32,042 I need to be able to use it. 535 00:25:32,142 --> 00:25:33,561 Summarise it, yes. 536 00:25:33,661 --> 00:25:35,161 Show it to your editor, yes. 537 00:25:35,261 --> 00:25:37,920 Quote from it, no. 538 00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:40,020 Can I have your number? 539 00:25:40,740 --> 00:25:42,739 Be careful, Nick. 540 00:25:43,819 --> 00:25:45,819 This could get nasty. 541 00:25:54,617 --> 00:25:56,617 (PHONE RINGING) 542 00:26:01,656 --> 00:26:04,355 ALAN: I have a piece on MPs expenses I want you to have a look at. 543 00:26:04,455 --> 00:26:06,155 NICK: Okay. ALAN: Do you want some gingerbread? 544 00:26:06,255 --> 00:26:07,794 My mother made it. It's not very good. 545 00:26:07,894 --> 00:26:09,754 NICK: I have evidence. 546 00:26:09,854 --> 00:26:11,433 ALAN: How long did that take you to get? 547 00:26:11,533 --> 00:26:13,653 NICK: Maybe two months, ALAN: And you've never mentioned it? 548 00:26:15,653 --> 00:26:17,272 They're paying out millions to cover this up. 549 00:26:17,372 --> 00:26:19,372 This is a story. 550 00:26:19,972 --> 00:26:22,471 Nick, newspapers reporting on newspapers... 551 00:26:22,571 --> 00:26:25,910 But the editor of that newspaper is about to enter government. 552 00:26:26,010 --> 00:26:29,790 If Andy Coulson was complicit in hacking phones as an editor, 553 00:26:29,890 --> 00:26:32,449 imagine what he might do to enemies of the government. 554 00:26:33,729 --> 00:26:35,668 ALAN: Show me what you have. 555 00:26:35,768 --> 00:26:37,768 NICK: Okay, so, 556 00:26:38,448 --> 00:26:39,748 printout of an e-mail. 557 00:26:39,848 --> 00:26:44,787 ross.hindley@news-of-the-world to shadownmen@yahoo.co.uk 558 00:26:44,887 --> 00:26:45,906 It's Glenn Mulcaire's e-mail. 559 00:26:46,006 --> 00:26:47,346 His e-mail was shadowmen? 560 00:26:47,446 --> 00:26:49,526 Hmm, it says, "transcript for Neville." 561 00:26:50,725 --> 00:26:52,545 "Wednesday, 29th of June, 2005." 562 00:26:52,645 --> 00:26:53,585 I can read. 563 00:26:53,685 --> 00:26:55,624 And Neville is... 564 00:26:55,724 --> 00:26:58,264 Neville Thurlbeck, Chief reporter at News of the World. 565 00:26:58,364 --> 00:27:01,583 There are transcripts of 35 voicemail messages, 566 00:27:01,683 --> 00:27:05,062 which had been left on the phones of Gordon Taylor and a colleague. 567 00:27:05,162 --> 00:27:07,142 - It wasn't just Clive Goodman. - (RUSTLING) 568 00:27:07,242 --> 00:27:09,242 And then, there's this. 569 00:27:09,801 --> 00:27:13,901 Greg Miskiw, assistant editor approving a payment of £7000, 570 00:27:14,001 --> 00:27:17,020 to Mulcaire for a story on Gordon Taylor. 571 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,419 And the police have access to all of this and more. 572 00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:21,579 Can we use these? 573 00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:23,539 No. 574 00:27:23,639 --> 00:27:26,318 Can we get your Mr Apollo to speak on the record? 575 00:27:27,998 --> 00:27:29,097 How long have we known each other? 576 00:27:29,197 --> 00:27:30,817 I have no idea. 577 00:27:30,917 --> 00:27:32,537 I had no interest in trying to work that out. 578 00:27:32,637 --> 00:27:33,656 It'll make me feel old. 579 00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:37,056 Nearly thirty years. This is it, Alan. 580 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:38,775 There is an industry making huge profit 581 00:27:38,875 --> 00:27:40,295 from invading people's private lives, 582 00:27:40,395 --> 00:27:42,215 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids 583 00:27:42,315 --> 00:27:44,714 have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it. 584 00:27:50,033 --> 00:27:52,033 This matters. 585 00:27:57,272 --> 00:27:59,271 Tin hats on. 586 00:28:00,591 --> 00:28:02,590 Good. Okay. 587 00:28:05,310 --> 00:28:08,409 I'll-I'll let you know when I've got something. 588 00:28:08,509 --> 00:28:10,509 Thanks, Alan. 589 00:28:11,349 --> 00:28:13,368 You may think you lead a private life, 590 00:28:13,468 --> 00:28:15,328 but The Guardian has uncovered evidence 591 00:28:15,428 --> 00:28:17,207 to suggest otherwise. 592 00:28:17,307 --> 00:28:21,966 This strange story began in 2006 with the arrest of two men, 593 00:28:22,066 --> 00:28:24,406 The News of the World, Royal Editor, Clive Goodman, 594 00:28:24,506 --> 00:28:27,125 and private investigator, Glenn Mulcaire. 595 00:28:27,225 --> 00:28:29,605 The men pled guilty to phone hacking charges, 596 00:28:29,705 --> 00:28:31,284 and served prison sentences. 597 00:28:31,384 --> 00:28:32,884 Following an investigation, 598 00:28:32,984 --> 00:28:37,643 the paper told the world that hacking was the work of one rogue reporter. 599 00:28:37,743 --> 00:28:40,043 The story should have ended there. 600 00:28:40,143 --> 00:28:41,442 But it didn't. 601 00:28:41,542 --> 00:28:43,542 (SIGHS) 602 00:28:55,180 --> 00:28:56,178 RUPERT MURDOCH: From the beginning on, 603 00:28:56,179 --> 00:28:58,699 newspapers have prospered for one reason, 604 00:28:59,779 --> 00:29:01,958 giving readers the news they want. 605 00:29:02,058 --> 00:29:03,878 Shit. 606 00:29:03,978 --> 00:29:08,717 Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! 607 00:29:08,817 --> 00:29:10,816 (CLEARS THROAT) 608 00:29:12,256 --> 00:29:13,556 Keep it simple. 609 00:29:13,656 --> 00:29:15,635 Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers 610 00:29:15,735 --> 00:29:18,755 had paid out more than £1,000,000 to settle legal cases 611 00:29:18,855 --> 00:29:20,314 that threatened to reveal evidence 612 00:29:20,414 --> 00:29:22,154 of his journalists' repeated involvement 613 00:29:22,254 --> 00:29:24,513 in the use of criminal methods to get stories. 614 00:29:24,613 --> 00:29:27,913 ALAN: Payments secured secrecy over out-of-court settlements 615 00:29:28,013 --> 00:29:30,512 in three cases that threatened to expose evidence 616 00:29:30,612 --> 00:29:33,752 of Murdoch journalists using private investigators 617 00:29:33,852 --> 00:29:37,031 to illegally hack into the mobile phone messages 618 00:29:37,131 --> 00:29:38,990 of numerous public figures. 619 00:29:39,090 --> 00:29:42,430 Cabinet ministers. MPs, actors, and sports stars... 620 00:29:42,530 --> 00:29:44,589 were all targets of private investigators. 621 00:29:44,689 --> 00:29:46,589 Are you sure we can safely list all those groups? 622 00:29:46,689 --> 00:29:48,948 We already have evidence of actors, Elle Macpherson, 623 00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:50,948 - sport stars, Sky Andrew... - MPs then? 624 00:29:51,048 --> 00:29:52,508 I have an invoice 625 00:29:52,608 --> 00:29:54,667 recording a payment to a private investigator 626 00:29:54,767 --> 00:29:56,427 showing John Prescott had been targeted, 627 00:29:56,527 --> 00:29:57,467 it's likely hacking. 628 00:29:57,567 --> 00:29:58,906 This article has no named sources. 629 00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:00,346 There's no evidence on the record. 630 00:30:00,446 --> 00:30:02,426 Alan thinks we have enough, I do, too. 631 00:30:02,526 --> 00:30:03,945 And we haven't got right of reply. 632 00:30:04,045 --> 00:30:05,585 It's a declaration of bloody war. 633 00:30:05,685 --> 00:30:07,625 Murdoch and Brooks, they have nuclear weapons. 634 00:30:07,725 --> 00:30:08,704 Right now they do. 635 00:30:08,804 --> 00:30:10,664 But we can neuter their nuclear weapons with this. 636 00:30:10,764 --> 00:30:12,703 If we do, Fleet Street will fall in behind us, 637 00:30:12,803 --> 00:30:13,783 the police soon after. 638 00:30:13,883 --> 00:30:16,423 And they have... when they find the information 639 00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:17,641 - they already have. - Information they've lost? 640 00:30:17,642 --> 00:30:18,822 Information they don't know they have. 641 00:30:18,922 --> 00:30:21,302 This is The Met we're talking about. 642 00:30:21,402 --> 00:30:24,101 Look, once we publish, they'll be forced to act. 643 00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:26,201 Can we name Coulson? 644 00:30:26,721 --> 00:30:28,380 Now you're worried I haven't gone far enough. 645 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,300 No, it makes it more in the public interest 646 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,340 if we can name him. 647 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,259 I did ring conservative HQ right to reply, Gill. 648 00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,139 I asked about the Gordon Taylor settlement. 649 00:30:36,239 --> 00:30:38,258 His office replied, it didn't ring any bells. 650 00:30:38,358 --> 00:30:40,498 We've nothing that directly links him. 651 00:30:40,598 --> 00:30:41,657 I agree. 652 00:30:41,757 --> 00:30:44,357 But we can say, 653 00:30:45,397 --> 00:30:47,776 that he was the editor in place when journalists 654 00:30:47,876 --> 00:30:49,856 for whom he was responsible, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 655 00:30:49,956 --> 00:30:51,935 That's good. 656 00:30:52,035 --> 00:30:54,035 That's good. 657 00:30:56,514 --> 00:30:58,514 Yes? 658 00:30:58,874 --> 00:31:00,873 I'm uneasy, but if you're sure... 659 00:31:04,793 --> 00:31:06,792 I am. 660 00:31:11,231 --> 00:31:13,231 RUFUS: It reads well. 661 00:31:18,910 --> 00:31:20,909 Okay. 662 00:31:27,428 --> 00:31:28,688 At half past five in the afternoon 663 00:31:28,788 --> 00:31:30,967 on Wednesday, 8th of July, 2009, 664 00:31:31,067 --> 00:31:33,527 we posted my news story on The Guardian website. 665 00:31:33,627 --> 00:31:36,766 As it ran, The Guardian news desk asked a reporter, Caroline Davies, 666 00:31:36,866 --> 00:31:39,405 to call John Prescott, ex-Deputy Prime Minister, 667 00:31:39,505 --> 00:31:40,605 to get a quote. 668 00:31:40,705 --> 00:31:42,765 I told him the gist of the story, 669 00:31:42,865 --> 00:31:45,164 and he said, "Fookin' 'ell!" 670 00:31:45,264 --> 00:31:46,604 You'd have thought the police 671 00:31:46,704 --> 00:31:48,764 in the committing of a criminal offence, 672 00:31:48,864 --> 00:31:50,283 and clearly it is, against anyone, 673 00:31:50,383 --> 00:31:52,763 and particularly you'd have thought, a cabinet member, 674 00:31:52,863 --> 00:31:54,362 they would have come and told me about it. 675 00:31:54,462 --> 00:31:56,242 I would have asked them, "What are you going to do about it?" 676 00:31:56,342 --> 00:31:58,482 Prescott roared. 677 00:31:58,582 --> 00:32:00,581 But the house fell silent. 678 00:32:02,021 --> 00:32:04,020 Anyone? 679 00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:07,740 Anyone? 680 00:32:11,259 --> 00:32:12,799 And Fleet Street, 681 00:32:12,899 --> 00:32:14,078 well... 682 00:32:14,178 --> 00:32:16,598 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 683 00:32:16,698 --> 00:32:20,637 Fleet Street essentially did their best to ignore the story. 684 00:32:20,737 --> 00:32:23,876 Ask any journalist what a great story depends on. 685 00:32:23,976 --> 00:32:25,976 They'll say the same thing. 686 00:32:26,376 --> 00:32:27,795 A new angle, 687 00:32:27,895 --> 00:32:30,195 one at least journalists can get behind. 688 00:32:30,295 --> 00:32:31,915 We are reliant on our own profession 689 00:32:32,015 --> 00:32:34,474 to follow up on stories so they have impact. 690 00:32:34,574 --> 00:32:37,673 To make a story newsworthy requires multiple news outlets. 691 00:32:37,773 --> 00:32:39,393 But on this one, 692 00:32:39,493 --> 00:32:41,513 crickets. 693 00:32:41,613 --> 00:32:43,712 My company couldn't have settled the legal action 694 00:32:43,812 --> 00:32:44,792 like The Guardian claims. 695 00:32:44,892 --> 00:32:47,151 If they had done, I'd have known about it. 696 00:32:47,251 --> 00:32:49,311 I tried to get this out as wide as possible. 697 00:32:49,411 --> 00:32:51,391 I talked on radio stations, TV shows. 698 00:32:51,491 --> 00:32:54,350 I took constant calls from agents of public figures asking, 699 00:32:54,450 --> 00:32:55,630 "Am I on that list?" 700 00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:56,949 I slept about four hours. 701 00:32:57,049 --> 00:33:00,709 And then at five in the afternoon, I was surprised to hear that 702 00:33:00,809 --> 00:33:04,188 John Yates, Assistant Commissioner of Scotland Yard, 703 00:33:04,288 --> 00:33:06,747 was preparing to make a statement. 704 00:33:06,847 --> 00:33:08,107 Good afternoon. 705 00:33:08,207 --> 00:33:10,027 I was not involved in the original case 706 00:33:10,127 --> 00:33:13,626 and clearly come at this with an independent mind. 707 00:33:13,726 --> 00:33:15,066 In my opinion, what I've seen 708 00:33:15,166 --> 00:33:19,245 is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. 709 00:33:20,245 --> 00:33:22,784 He proceeded to gently demolish our work. 710 00:33:22,884 --> 00:33:25,264 We'd suggested there were thousands of victims. 711 00:33:25,364 --> 00:33:28,703 The potential targets may have run into hundreds of people. 712 00:33:28,803 --> 00:33:31,662 But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 713 00:33:31,762 --> 00:33:34,502 against a far smaller number of individuals. 714 00:33:34,602 --> 00:33:36,821 And since no additional evidence has come to light, 715 00:33:36,921 --> 00:33:39,041 I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry. 716 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,660 Thank you. That's all for today. 717 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,640 REPORTER: Does that mean The Guardian fabricated the story? 718 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:49,698 ...may have run into hundreds of people. 719 00:33:49,798 --> 00:33:52,578 But our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic 720 00:33:52,678 --> 00:33:54,897 against a far smaller number of individuals. 721 00:33:54,997 --> 00:33:57,337 And since no additional evidence has come to light, 722 00:33:57,437 --> 00:33:59,636 I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry. 723 00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:02,856 FEMALE REPORTER: That was Assistant Commissioner John Yates, 724 00:34:02,956 --> 00:34:04,375 speaking in response to... 725 00:34:04,475 --> 00:34:06,475 (INDISTINCT CHATTERING) 726 00:34:08,475 --> 00:34:10,494 NICK: What is it? 727 00:34:10,594 --> 00:34:12,214 ALAN: The police haven't backed us, 728 00:34:12,314 --> 00:34:15,693 and Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 729 00:34:15,793 --> 00:34:17,493 He was Director of Public Prosecutions then. 730 00:34:17,593 --> 00:34:20,252 But he doesn't consider there was anything inappropriate 731 00:34:20,352 --> 00:34:22,532 in the prosecutions undertaken in this case. 732 00:34:22,632 --> 00:34:25,331 We are being squashed. 733 00:34:25,431 --> 00:34:27,131 We need to speak to your Mr Apollo. 734 00:34:27,231 --> 00:34:28,410 We need to get him on the record. 735 00:34:28,510 --> 00:34:30,490 He... 736 00:34:30,590 --> 00:34:32,490 he can contact me, I can't contact him. 737 00:34:32,590 --> 00:34:34,589 Nick, 738 00:34:35,749 --> 00:34:39,408 our colleagues upstairs are gravely concerned. 739 00:34:39,508 --> 00:34:41,008 Is it possible you were set up? 740 00:34:41,108 --> 00:34:42,607 No, this is right. I've... 741 00:34:42,707 --> 00:34:46,087 We've used no named sources, no quotes from documents, 742 00:34:46,187 --> 00:34:48,186 we should never have published. 743 00:34:49,066 --> 00:34:52,525 And Murdoch has set his attack dogs on us in the Commons, 744 00:34:52,625 --> 00:34:55,285 they're briefing that we can't back up our story. 745 00:34:55,385 --> 00:34:58,464 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 746 00:34:59,784 --> 00:35:01,923 That doesn't sound great. 747 00:35:02,023 --> 00:35:03,603 They want to barbecue you, Nick, 748 00:35:03,703 --> 00:35:05,863 and John Yates has given them permission. 749 00:35:08,502 --> 00:35:10,502 I'm sorry. I... 750 00:35:11,142 --> 00:35:13,341 I've read the runes wrong here. 751 00:35:15,181 --> 00:35:16,880 The Guardian are putting together a statement. 752 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:18,560 What kind of statement? 753 00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:20,660 I'll know when I see it. 754 00:35:21,459 --> 00:35:23,459 I feel like I'm having a heart attack. 755 00:35:25,819 --> 00:35:27,818 Why is everybody doing this? 756 00:35:30,618 --> 00:35:32,617 (SIGHS) 757 00:35:52,053 --> 00:35:54,033 My mother was a strong character, 758 00:35:54,133 --> 00:35:57,392 intelligent, forceful, imaginative, 759 00:35:57,492 --> 00:36:01,511 trapped, as she believed, in domestic drudgery. She had... 760 00:36:01,611 --> 00:36:03,611 She had a furious temper. 761 00:36:04,011 --> 00:36:07,390 This wasn't the 1950s toxic ideal of "Spare the rod and spoil the child." 762 00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:09,070 This was mad beatings, 763 00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:12,469 when she came after us with a black-eyed fury 764 00:36:12,569 --> 00:36:15,388 armed with whatever weapon she had to hand, 765 00:36:15,488 --> 00:36:18,448 a dog lead, a slipper, a riding crop, a rope. 766 00:36:20,967 --> 00:36:22,967 Are you ready to say you're sorry? 767 00:36:25,006 --> 00:36:27,006 No. 768 00:36:30,285 --> 00:36:31,465 (DOOR SLAMS) 769 00:36:31,565 --> 00:36:34,744 I had been working as a journalist for a couple of decades, 770 00:36:34,844 --> 00:36:38,543 thinking I was interested in criminal justice and social problems 771 00:36:38,643 --> 00:36:41,143 when I saw that I was being drawn to stories, 772 00:36:41,243 --> 00:36:43,242 again and again with the same theme. 773 00:36:44,922 --> 00:36:46,622 A deep-seated urge to hit back... 774 00:36:46,722 --> 00:36:48,101 (CHILDREN SHOUTING) 775 00:36:48,201 --> 00:36:50,581 - ...at anybody at all... - MAN: Mr Davies. 776 00:36:50,681 --> 00:36:54,020 - ...who takes power and abuses it. - Stupid child! 777 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,120 - (SCREAMS) - (SCHOOL BELL RINGS) 778 00:37:02,758 --> 00:37:04,758 (PHONE VIBRATES) 779 00:37:19,555 --> 00:37:21,555 (SIGHS) 780 00:37:40,111 --> 00:37:42,250 Yeah, so I tried hitting him back. 781 00:37:42,350 --> 00:37:44,350 Why? 782 00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:46,909 Seething rage. 783 00:37:47,229 --> 00:37:49,229 I thought he looked vulnerable. 784 00:37:50,029 --> 00:37:52,028 Oh. 785 00:37:53,148 --> 00:37:54,568 It didn't work. 786 00:37:54,668 --> 00:37:56,667 No. 787 00:37:57,827 --> 00:37:59,007 You look terrible. 788 00:37:59,107 --> 00:38:01,106 Thank you. 789 00:38:02,226 --> 00:38:03,286 What happened to you? 790 00:38:03,386 --> 00:38:05,385 Are you asking me or him? 791 00:38:07,345 --> 00:38:10,764 Okay, so I need to take you to your mum's tonight. 792 00:38:10,864 --> 00:38:13,704 Um... She says she's cool with it if you are. 793 00:38:14,024 --> 00:38:16,023 Yeah, sure, I don't mind. 794 00:38:25,101 --> 00:38:27,961 REPORTER: It's been a day of statement and counter statement 795 00:38:28,061 --> 00:38:29,600 in the phone hacking affair 796 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:32,320 with News International angrily refuting 797 00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:34,919 all the allegations made by The Guardian. 798 00:38:35,019 --> 00:38:36,639 With the editor and the reporter 799 00:38:36,739 --> 00:38:39,198 due to appear at the Media Select Committee, 800 00:38:39,298 --> 00:38:42,398 certain publications are claiming a leftist agenda 801 00:38:42,498 --> 00:38:45,077 against the News of the World by The Guardian. 802 00:38:45,177 --> 00:38:48,636 And calling for legal action to be taken against the organisation 803 00:38:48,736 --> 00:38:50,036 if they can't back up 804 00:38:50,136 --> 00:38:52,816 spurious claims made against Murdoch's paper. 805 00:38:59,974 --> 00:39:01,974 - Hi. - SHERIDAN: Hello. 806 00:39:04,973 --> 00:39:07,073 - See you, kids. - SHERIDAN: Hi, kids. 807 00:39:07,173 --> 00:39:09,472 - Oh, hang on. - I'm fine, Mum. I'm fine. 808 00:39:09,572 --> 00:39:10,912 It's my fault. 809 00:39:11,012 --> 00:39:13,011 I'm sorry. Bad advice. 810 00:39:13,971 --> 00:39:15,551 Coffee? 811 00:39:15,651 --> 00:39:18,470 I'll... Thanks for this. I'll see you Monday. 812 00:39:18,570 --> 00:39:20,430 - I'm sorry. - Nick. 813 00:39:20,530 --> 00:39:22,389 - Yeah? - Have you eaten? 814 00:39:22,489 --> 00:39:23,509 When? 815 00:39:23,609 --> 00:39:24,949 In the last day. 816 00:39:25,049 --> 00:39:28,748 I'm just a bit tired. I'm not... I'm not really at my best. 817 00:39:28,848 --> 00:39:29,908 I need to think. 818 00:39:30,008 --> 00:39:33,227 And the... 819 00:39:33,327 --> 00:39:35,427 the House of Commons Select Committee. 820 00:39:35,527 --> 00:39:36,746 want to see us tomorrow. 821 00:39:36,846 --> 00:39:38,906 And The Guardian have got this message 822 00:39:39,006 --> 00:39:42,025 that their PR have written, that is... that is just... 823 00:39:42,125 --> 00:39:44,125 All right. Okay. 824 00:39:45,125 --> 00:39:47,064 You look worse than he does. Let's... 825 00:39:47,164 --> 00:39:49,344 (WHISPERS) I didn't tell him to fight back. 826 00:39:49,444 --> 00:39:51,783 I told him to pick his moment, I didn't want him to hit someone. 827 00:39:51,883 --> 00:39:53,583 Shit. 828 00:39:53,683 --> 00:39:55,823 It's all right. 829 00:39:55,923 --> 00:39:57,922 Come on. 830 00:39:58,242 --> 00:40:00,462 Sit down. Sit down. 831 00:40:00,562 --> 00:40:02,561 Soup okay? 832 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:07,180 (CLATTERING) 833 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,300 What do I do? 834 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:10,819 How do I make it better? 835 00:40:10,919 --> 00:40:13,759 Well, we will talk to the school. 836 00:40:14,919 --> 00:40:16,898 You think they'll do better? 837 00:40:16,998 --> 00:40:18,998 It's a good school. 838 00:40:19,918 --> 00:40:20,937 Things have changed. 839 00:40:21,037 --> 00:40:24,477 You know, teachers, parents, they're not allowed to do... 840 00:40:26,116 --> 00:40:28,116 There's systems, right? 841 00:40:29,995 --> 00:40:31,995 I thought about her. 842 00:40:32,475 --> 00:40:34,475 Earlier today, I was reading this... 843 00:40:36,314 --> 00:40:39,933 paper-mache over-apologetic PR nonsense, 844 00:40:40,033 --> 00:40:42,773 and I thought about all the times I'd gone to her and apologised. 845 00:40:42,873 --> 00:40:44,872 And all the times I... 846 00:40:45,272 --> 00:40:47,272 and then my son gets a face like that. 847 00:40:50,111 --> 00:40:52,111 Okay. 848 00:40:53,231 --> 00:40:54,210 I'm gonna make the sofa up. 849 00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:56,310 You're staying here tonight. 850 00:40:57,150 --> 00:40:59,149 And I'll just put this soup on. 851 00:41:22,585 --> 00:41:24,584 (PHONE VIBRATES) 852 00:41:28,983 --> 00:41:30,803 (PHONE RINGING) 853 00:41:30,903 --> 00:41:33,602 - ALAN: Hi. - I can't read that statement. 854 00:41:33,702 --> 00:41:35,702 A retraction at this time, 855 00:41:36,302 --> 00:41:38,121 you're asking me to say I was wrong. 856 00:41:38,221 --> 00:41:40,581 If we can't get Mr Apollo on the record, 857 00:41:41,781 --> 00:41:43,880 then we need to make a retraction. 858 00:41:43,980 --> 00:41:46,340 You know getting him on the record is impossible. 859 00:41:47,779 --> 00:41:49,599 Then I'm afraid you'll have to make that statement 860 00:41:49,699 --> 00:41:51,479 to the Select Committee tomorrow. 861 00:41:51,579 --> 00:41:54,558 If you make me read it out, I won't come. 862 00:41:54,658 --> 00:41:57,617 If you don't come, we're fucked. 863 00:42:00,697 --> 00:42:02,696 Oh. 864 00:42:03,376 --> 00:42:06,056 (SIGHS) 865 00:42:27,971 --> 00:42:29,971 (EXHALES) 866 00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:32,350 Carl Bernstein, one of the great reporters 867 00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:34,450 who exposed the Watergate scandal, said, 868 00:42:35,449 --> 00:42:38,789 "I think all good reporting is the same thing. 869 00:42:38,889 --> 00:42:41,748 "The best attainable version of the truth." 870 00:42:41,848 --> 00:42:45,867 The best attainable version of the truth. 871 00:42:45,967 --> 00:42:48,007 The best attainable... so no matter what you've got... 872 00:42:49,886 --> 00:42:51,886 you've got to... 873 00:43:10,202 --> 00:43:11,262 Good morning. 874 00:43:11,362 --> 00:43:14,561 Hi. Does this printer-scanner thing still work? 875 00:43:15,761 --> 00:43:17,501 Yeah, that one does. Coffee? 876 00:43:17,601 --> 00:43:21,300 And do you have some black paper and some glue and some scissors? 877 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,379 Oh, you're making me a collage, Nick? 878 00:43:23,479 --> 00:43:26,659 Might need the kids to be slightly late for school. 879 00:43:26,759 --> 00:43:28,758 Right. Why? 880 00:43:29,918 --> 00:43:32,977 Okay, so these are e-mails 881 00:43:33,077 --> 00:43:35,737 written to a journalist, that's Neville, 882 00:43:35,837 --> 00:43:37,656 with transcriptions of 883 00:43:37,756 --> 00:43:39,976 a man called Gordon Taylor's voicemail messages. 884 00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:41,976 What I need you to do is to block out all the sections 885 00:43:42,076 --> 00:43:44,495 which are clearly transcribed from those voicemails. 886 00:43:44,595 --> 00:43:45,615 Leave everything else visible. 887 00:43:45,715 --> 00:43:46,794 You should be able to tell which bits are which. 888 00:43:46,795 --> 00:43:47,894 But any doubts, just ask. 889 00:43:47,994 --> 00:43:50,814 Hmm. May I ask, why aren't you doing this at The Guardian, 890 00:43:50,914 --> 00:43:52,653 with some sort of vague professionalism? 891 00:43:52,753 --> 00:43:54,493 Alan can't know. 892 00:43:54,593 --> 00:43:56,593 Your editor can't know? 893 00:43:57,072 --> 00:43:59,052 Because I can't have him tell anyone else. 894 00:43:59,152 --> 00:44:01,052 Oh yeah, that man is a gossip. 895 00:44:01,152 --> 00:44:02,110 Fleet Street can't know about this. 896 00:44:02,111 --> 00:44:04,931 As far as they know, I'm walking naked into that committee room. 897 00:44:05,031 --> 00:44:06,491 I was just trying to protect my editor. 898 00:44:06,591 --> 00:44:08,670 - And my newspaper. - And you? 899 00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:12,869 What sort of danger are you putting yourself in here? 900 00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:16,308 (SIGHS) 901 00:44:42,543 --> 00:44:44,543 Nick. 902 00:44:46,702 --> 00:44:48,602 How are you, Alan? 903 00:44:48,702 --> 00:44:50,641 I'm fine, a bit tired. 904 00:44:50,741 --> 00:44:53,081 Something interrupted my sleep last night. 905 00:44:53,181 --> 00:44:55,180 I hate it when that happens. 906 00:44:57,020 --> 00:44:59,020 I hate all of this. 907 00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:01,499 I'm sorry if I've made your life difficult. 908 00:45:02,179 --> 00:45:03,559 My life? 909 00:45:03,659 --> 00:45:05,658 This is bigger than me. 910 00:45:06,698 --> 00:45:09,897 You could have brought down the whole Guardian newspaper with this one. 911 00:45:10,897 --> 00:45:12,957 But what a way to go. 912 00:45:13,057 --> 00:45:16,516 I mean, consider the glory. 913 00:45:16,616 --> 00:45:22,835 I, Nick Davies, have destroyed, utterly destroyed 914 00:45:22,935 --> 00:45:26,134 close to 200 years of journalistic endeavour, 915 00:45:27,374 --> 00:45:30,513 You're an absolute... God. 916 00:45:30,613 --> 00:45:32,393 God, I can't even think what you are. 917 00:45:32,493 --> 00:45:34,492 You're awful. 918 00:45:36,372 --> 00:45:40,391 You know what Peter Preston told me when I took over the editor's desk? 919 00:45:40,491 --> 00:45:42,471 Why in hell did they choose you? 920 00:45:42,571 --> 00:45:44,570 Don't join the club. 921 00:45:45,090 --> 00:45:46,830 He had to make adjustments to the paper 922 00:45:46,930 --> 00:45:49,669 after the move from Manchester, and he didn't... 923 00:45:49,769 --> 00:45:54,588 well, he wouldn't be part of the media cabal. 924 00:45:54,688 --> 00:45:57,108 He liked being on the edge of Fleet Street. 925 00:45:57,208 --> 00:46:00,007 He considered it part of our DNA. 926 00:46:01,367 --> 00:46:03,566 Last night in bed, I realised something. 927 00:46:04,766 --> 00:46:07,985 What you've done bringing us here, 928 00:46:08,085 --> 00:46:11,125 is in the line of great Guardian coups. 929 00:46:12,764 --> 00:46:16,444 But I do want to keep the newspaper I've been entrusted with alive. 930 00:46:18,163 --> 00:46:19,863 Are you reading the statement? 931 00:46:19,963 --> 00:46:21,962 No. 932 00:46:22,442 --> 00:46:24,442 But I do have things to say. 933 00:46:27,441 --> 00:46:30,261 If you go too far, I will squeeze your leg 934 00:46:30,361 --> 00:46:32,360 and you will stop. 935 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,360 I have a paper to protect. 936 00:46:36,359 --> 00:46:39,359 And you, be sure to protect yourself. 937 00:46:41,318 --> 00:46:43,058 Tin hats on. 938 00:46:43,158 --> 00:46:45,158 JOHN WHITTINGDALE: Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 939 00:46:46,157 --> 00:46:47,297 Now we have a lot of questions, 940 00:46:47,397 --> 00:46:50,057 so try to keep opening statements short. 941 00:46:50,157 --> 00:46:52,356 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 942 00:46:54,156 --> 00:46:57,395 But I do have... there is a lot for me to say. 943 00:47:00,994 --> 00:47:03,934 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, 944 00:47:04,034 --> 00:47:06,353 copies of an e-mail. 70782

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