All language subtitles for Unabomber.In.His.Own.Words.S01E04.WEBRip.x264-ION10

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian Download
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,762 --> 00:00:09,762 www.titlovi.com 2 00:00:12,762 --> 00:00:14,223 Newsreader: Federal officials say 3 00:00:14,263 --> 00:00:15,617 their most promising lead yet in the Unabomber case 4 00:00:15,641 --> 00:00:17,140 has them searching the home tonight 5 00:00:17,184 --> 00:00:18,734 of a man who lives south 6 00:00:18,768 --> 00:00:20,978 of the small town of Lincoln, Montana. 7 00:00:49,173 --> 00:00:50,183 Holy crap, 8 00:00:50,216 --> 00:00:52,587 there was like 78 agents on the hill, 9 00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:55,216 that you couldn't even see, 10 00:00:55,514 --> 00:00:57,274 until after he was arrested. 11 00:00:57,307 --> 00:00:59,637 These men were like jumping up and down, 12 00:00:59,685 --> 00:01:01,094 they were all happy, 13 00:01:01,143 --> 00:01:02,653 slapping each other on the back, 14 00:01:02,688 --> 00:01:04,938 "We got him! We got him!" 15 00:01:04,981 --> 00:01:08,992 We were watching the evening news and uh... 16 00:01:09,028 --> 00:01:10,698 they said they'd arrested a suspect 17 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:12,408 in the Unabomber case 18 00:01:12,447 --> 00:01:15,027 and there was a local angle to the story. 19 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:16,575 Oh my God. 20 00:01:17,786 --> 00:01:19,615 And there is my brother and he's, gosh, 21 00:01:19,662 --> 00:01:21,623 he's looking like a mountain man, 22 00:01:21,664 --> 00:01:24,914 all torn clothes, scraggly hair. 23 00:01:26,168 --> 00:01:27,879 Linda: And we were so mad at the FBI 24 00:01:27,921 --> 00:01:29,632 because they had promised 25 00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:31,802 that our names would not be revealed, 26 00:01:31,841 --> 00:01:33,932 and that they would notify us ahead of time 27 00:01:33,968 --> 00:01:36,058 before the arrest was made. 28 00:01:36,094 --> 00:01:39,134 The FBI has arrested a suspect in Montana 29 00:01:39,182 --> 00:01:41,391 after he was fingered by relatives. 30 00:01:41,435 --> 00:01:44,265 First of all, that word "fingered" bothered me. 31 00:01:44,854 --> 00:01:48,395 Um, doesn't really encapsulate 32 00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:50,991 what we went through in terms of the process 33 00:01:51,027 --> 00:01:53,448 and the-the care and the grief 34 00:01:53,487 --> 00:01:55,908 that went into what we did. 35 00:01:57,450 --> 00:01:59,540 Newsreader: Neighbors here said that since the 1970s, 36 00:01:59,578 --> 00:02:02,578 Kaczynski has been living a solitary life. 37 00:02:02,623 --> 00:02:06,462 A reclusive man some called the "Hermit on the Hill." 38 00:02:07,126 --> 00:02:08,836 It was disbelief. 39 00:02:08,878 --> 00:02:11,209 It was absolute disbelief. 40 00:02:11,256 --> 00:02:12,756 It was so surreal. 41 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,759 I never would have thought 42 00:02:15,802 --> 00:02:17,682 that my neighbor 43 00:02:17,721 --> 00:02:20,271 was sitting in that little cabin 44 00:02:20,306 --> 00:02:22,137 creating bombs 45 00:02:22,182 --> 00:02:24,353 and killing people 46 00:02:24,394 --> 00:02:28,074 while he lived a half a mile away from us. 47 00:02:31,234 --> 00:02:34,454 * Man, now what has been done * 48 00:02:35,864 --> 00:02:38,033 * Man can't stand himself * 49 00:02:38,074 --> 00:02:41,034 * Or where he's told that he belongs * 50 00:02:42,203 --> 00:02:45,043 * Man don't understand * 51 00:02:45,081 --> 00:02:47,671 * Man blames everyone * 52 00:02:47,709 --> 00:02:50,878 * Everyone under the sun * 53 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,631 * Tell me what has Man become * 54 00:02:55,009 --> 00:02:57,549 * Man can't help himself * 55 00:02:57,593 --> 00:03:00,854 * Don't know where he can run * 56 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:03,389 * Man can't run for help * 57 00:03:03,432 --> 00:03:05,853 * Can't stand anybody else * 58 00:03:07,354 --> 00:03:10,234 * Man don't know where he's from * 59 00:03:10,272 --> 00:03:13,193 * Don't know where he belong * 60 00:03:13,234 --> 00:03:16,204 * Now would Man trade tomorrow * 61 00:03:16,236 --> 00:03:18,986 * For a time long forgotten * 62 00:03:20,867 --> 00:03:22,617 Ted: No. It was simply anger and revenge, 63 00:03:22,661 --> 00:03:24,290 and I was... I was going to strike back. 64 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,040 Try not to get blown up. 65 00:03:28,082 --> 00:03:30,043 * Man don't understand * 66 00:03:30,085 --> 00:03:31,835 * What has man become * 67 00:03:37,009 --> 00:03:38,549 Reporter 1: Sir, are you the Unabomber? 68 00:03:38,593 --> 00:03:40,013 Reporter 2: Are you the Unabomber? 69 00:03:40,054 --> 00:03:43,683 When the Unabomber is arrested and identified, 70 00:03:43,723 --> 00:03:46,394 especially since he went for 17 years 71 00:03:46,433 --> 00:03:48,313 committing these crimes, 72 00:03:48,353 --> 00:03:50,312 wow, it's-it's of course 73 00:03:50,354 --> 00:03:51,764 it's a feeding frenzy for the media. 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,740 David: We ended up surrounded, 75 00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:57,105 kind of in a siege, you know. 76 00:03:57,153 --> 00:03:59,033 Newsreader: Ted Kaczynski's brother, David, 77 00:03:59,073 --> 00:04:01,082 who remains secluded in this Schenectady house... 78 00:04:01,116 --> 00:04:02,735 Linda: Some people said there were 79 00:04:02,783 --> 00:04:04,493 a hundred people out there 80 00:04:04,536 --> 00:04:06,996 and some of the children down the block came 81 00:04:07,038 --> 00:04:09,169 and marched and said, go away, go away, 82 00:04:09,207 --> 00:04:11,668 you shouldn't be bothering these people. 83 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:13,250 That was nice of them. 84 00:04:13,294 --> 00:04:15,054 Uh, they weren't leaving with their cameras 85 00:04:15,088 --> 00:04:16,668 and their notebooks 86 00:04:16,714 --> 00:04:18,504 until we came out and talked to them. 87 00:04:18,550 --> 00:04:20,028 And I would have rather walked into fire 88 00:04:20,052 --> 00:04:22,932 than walked into those cameras at that moment, 89 00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:26,271 it was like the worst possible pain you could be feeling 90 00:04:26,307 --> 00:04:28,226 and then it's all public. 91 00:04:28,268 --> 00:04:29,848 Here's my mother, 92 00:04:29,894 --> 00:04:32,105 and she's got to go through this now. 93 00:04:33,314 --> 00:04:34,863 As soon as we get out the door, 94 00:04:34,899 --> 00:04:36,610 all the lights come on 95 00:04:36,651 --> 00:04:38,281 and people are yelling at mom, 96 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:40,158 are saying, "Mrs. Kaczynski, 97 00:04:40,197 --> 00:04:42,067 do you think your son's the Unabomber?" 98 00:04:42,115 --> 00:04:44,156 And she answered, she said, 99 00:04:44,201 --> 00:04:46,620 "I don't know, you people know more than I do", 100 00:04:46,661 --> 00:04:48,081 I think is what she said. 101 00:04:50,206 --> 00:04:51,997 Greg: They attempted to interview Ted 102 00:04:52,042 --> 00:04:53,922 immediately after arresting him. 103 00:04:53,961 --> 00:04:56,341 And he refused to be interviewed basically. 104 00:05:14,730 --> 00:05:16,730 Kevin: I get a call saying, 105 00:05:16,774 --> 00:05:18,605 "You gotta go to uh... gotta go to Montana." 106 00:05:18,651 --> 00:05:20,281 You know, at the... at the time, 107 00:05:20,319 --> 00:05:22,740 there were no GPS capabilities, 108 00:05:22,781 --> 00:05:24,490 so we get a paper map, 109 00:05:24,531 --> 00:05:27,451 and we look at the squiggly black lines 110 00:05:27,494 --> 00:05:30,254 leading to this little 500-person nowhere, 111 00:05:30,288 --> 00:05:32,538 which is, you know, 112 00:05:32,581 --> 00:05:34,792 a hellacious drive over some mountains far away. 113 00:05:34,834 --> 00:05:36,584 And we get to the cabin 114 00:05:36,627 --> 00:05:40,048 and the FBI guys are still rousting the place 115 00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:42,720 and uh, tossing it like a... uh... 116 00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:44,509 like a bear in a garbage can. 117 00:05:45,887 --> 00:05:47,726 And they're-they're finding all kinds of clues. 118 00:05:47,764 --> 00:05:49,144 They're finding the typewriter. 119 00:05:49,182 --> 00:05:51,143 They're finding other writings. 120 00:05:51,185 --> 00:05:53,305 They're finding bomb materials. It's a gold mine. 121 00:05:54,896 --> 00:05:58,185 Greg: There was notes about the construction of the bombs, 122 00:05:58,233 --> 00:06:00,322 the selection of the victims, 123 00:06:00,358 --> 00:06:02,738 a rough draft of the manifesto. 124 00:06:04,656 --> 00:06:06,615 Turned out there was a hoodie and a pair 125 00:06:06,658 --> 00:06:08,697 of aviation sunglasses in the cabin. 126 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:31,365 Joel: There were three of us in there 127 00:06:31,389 --> 00:06:33,389 who were looking at things, 128 00:06:33,433 --> 00:06:37,274 and one of the three pulled out a box 129 00:06:37,314 --> 00:06:40,074 from under Mr. Kaczynski's bed. 130 00:06:41,399 --> 00:06:42,899 It was just a cardboard box, 131 00:06:42,944 --> 00:06:45,244 and inside it was a plastic bag, 132 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,409 and inside the plastic bag was a box 133 00:06:48,449 --> 00:06:51,749 wrapped entirely in aluminum foil. 134 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:55,581 And in this cabin, 135 00:06:55,622 --> 00:06:57,923 which was extremely smoky, 136 00:06:59,086 --> 00:07:00,665 uh, there was a lot of soot, 137 00:07:00,711 --> 00:07:02,762 it was a dark place. 138 00:07:02,797 --> 00:07:04,836 All of a sudden, was this shiny, 139 00:07:04,882 --> 00:07:06,262 glowing cube, 140 00:07:07,552 --> 00:07:10,601 and at that moment, as in a cartoon, 141 00:07:10,637 --> 00:07:13,557 the light bulb lit over each person's head, 142 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,139 and the person that was holding it, 143 00:07:16,185 --> 00:07:17,896 set it down, 144 00:07:17,937 --> 00:07:20,108 and we backed away very quietly. 145 00:07:20,148 --> 00:07:22,278 And it turned out that was a bomb, 146 00:07:22,317 --> 00:07:24,606 it was completely ready to go, 147 00:07:24,651 --> 00:07:26,531 had the battery in it, everything else. 148 00:07:26,571 --> 00:07:28,201 It seemed apparent 149 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,329 that as soon as the weather cleared Mr. Kaczynski 150 00:07:30,367 --> 00:07:31,656 was going to be headed out 151 00:07:31,701 --> 00:07:34,620 to deliver that into the mail-stream 152 00:07:34,661 --> 00:07:36,422 and on to its victim. 153 00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:37,915 The moment I found that out, 154 00:07:37,957 --> 00:07:39,418 I realized, 155 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:41,499 thank God we did what we did. 156 00:07:41,543 --> 00:07:45,014 Thank God, we saved a life in the end. 157 00:07:45,048 --> 00:07:47,177 I did what I did with the heaviest heart 158 00:07:47,216 --> 00:07:49,927 I've ever had. 159 00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:52,389 When Ted was arrested 160 00:07:52,430 --> 00:07:55,350 and assigned a provisional attorney, 161 00:07:57,269 --> 00:07:59,269 um, the first thing he asked the attorney was, 162 00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:01,612 "How did they ever find me?" 163 00:08:01,648 --> 00:08:03,517 And the attorney said, 164 00:08:03,565 --> 00:08:05,735 "Well, um, it's being reported 165 00:08:05,776 --> 00:08:07,737 that your brother turned you in." 166 00:08:09,238 --> 00:08:11,408 And again, I heard this third hand 167 00:08:11,449 --> 00:08:14,410 but Ted had said, "No, that's not possible, 168 00:08:14,452 --> 00:08:16,622 David loves me, he'd never do that." 169 00:08:18,122 --> 00:08:19,713 I don't know if it was at that point 170 00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:21,668 or at some point, he told his attorneys 171 00:08:21,709 --> 00:08:23,999 that he would never ever have anything to do 172 00:08:24,045 --> 00:08:26,545 with his family again. 173 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,510 That as far as he was concerned, I was no brother. 174 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:37,230 Kevin: Then we go for the perp walk. 175 00:08:37,267 --> 00:08:40,476 When Ted gets trotted out to go to the courthouse. 176 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:42,610 So, deputies bring Ted out 177 00:08:42,647 --> 00:08:44,187 and he's walking... 178 00:08:45,442 --> 00:08:47,322 like a ramrod. 179 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,150 And I'm thinking, 180 00:08:49,196 --> 00:08:51,256 this is the only chance I'm gonna get to talk to this guy. 181 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,451 So, I jump over the berm and I run over to him 182 00:08:53,491 --> 00:08:55,241 while the cops are pulling him off. 183 00:08:55,284 --> 00:08:57,195 So, I'm talking to the guy. 184 00:08:57,245 --> 00:08:59,705 Kevin: Ted, did you do it? 185 00:08:59,746 --> 00:09:02,917 "Did you kill people? Are you really the Unabomber?" 186 00:09:02,958 --> 00:09:05,379 He's looking straight ahead. 187 00:09:05,419 --> 00:09:08,470 And he turns, at one point, and says, "No". 188 00:09:09,966 --> 00:09:11,610 Reporter: Are you responsible for these bombings? 189 00:09:11,634 --> 00:09:13,236 Kevin: But the interesting thing to me, for that, 190 00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:15,010 is he's very much in control. 191 00:09:15,054 --> 00:09:16,884 This, this is who he is. 192 00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:20,770 He's not a guy who explodes, loses it. 193 00:09:22,479 --> 00:09:24,859 He's a tightly controlled guy, and he's very smart. 194 00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:27,730 Newsreader: The accused Unabomber 195 00:09:27,774 --> 00:09:29,605 was brought from his jail cell in Montana 196 00:09:29,652 --> 00:09:32,162 to an airfield in Sacramento, Sunday morning. 197 00:09:32,197 --> 00:09:34,027 He was sporting a bullet proof vest 198 00:09:34,073 --> 00:09:35,703 plus shackles and handcuffs. 199 00:09:36,909 --> 00:09:38,950 My biggest concern was 200 00:09:38,995 --> 00:09:41,154 I didn't want my brother to get the death penalty. 201 00:09:42,831 --> 00:09:46,091 The only possible acceptable ending of this 202 00:09:46,126 --> 00:09:48,086 is for my brother to get a life sentence 203 00:09:48,129 --> 00:09:49,918 rather than a death sentence. 204 00:09:49,963 --> 00:09:51,884 I could not picture what it would be like 205 00:09:51,924 --> 00:09:53,585 for mom and me be, 206 00:09:53,634 --> 00:09:55,644 you know, looking at the clock and you know, 207 00:09:55,677 --> 00:09:57,508 hands of the clock are going to midnight, 208 00:09:57,556 --> 00:09:59,491 and knowing that Ted's being strapped into a gurney 209 00:09:59,515 --> 00:10:01,306 and executed. 210 00:10:02,643 --> 00:10:04,153 That was unthinkable. 211 00:10:06,355 --> 00:10:08,686 Reporter: Are you responsible for these bombings? 212 00:10:08,732 --> 00:10:10,613 Sir, Are you responsible for these bombings? 213 00:10:11,903 --> 00:10:13,572 Guys, let's just let him through. 214 00:10:13,613 --> 00:10:15,202 Take the hold. -Stay back. 215 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,740 Kevin: It's instantly a circus trial. 216 00:10:17,783 --> 00:10:19,583 David, his brother, 217 00:10:19,619 --> 00:10:21,698 is positioning to try 218 00:10:21,745 --> 00:10:23,576 to get him out of the death penalty, 219 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:26,003 and David doesn't have a whole lot of say, 220 00:10:26,042 --> 00:10:28,211 but he's... he's forceful. 221 00:10:29,044 --> 00:10:33,004 And Ted is insisting that he's not crazy. 222 00:10:40,264 --> 00:10:42,345 Phillip: A person can be found insane 223 00:10:42,392 --> 00:10:45,231 if they have a severe mental defect 224 00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:48,480 which causes them not to know the nature 225 00:10:48,523 --> 00:10:50,192 and quality of their act, 226 00:10:50,232 --> 00:10:51,863 or the wrongfulness of their act. 227 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,900 But in his case, 228 00:10:53,945 --> 00:10:56,615 the evidence that he knew his act was wrong 229 00:10:56,655 --> 00:10:58,615 was extensive. 230 00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:00,618 And so, I think that the defense attorneys 231 00:11:00,659 --> 00:11:05,039 knew that they'd have a very hard time with insanity, 232 00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:08,130 but their goal was to convey to the jury 233 00:11:08,168 --> 00:11:09,957 his degree of mental illness, 234 00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:12,592 so that they would consider not executing him. 235 00:11:24,682 --> 00:11:27,692 I learned that in the opening arguments for the defense, 236 00:11:27,727 --> 00:11:30,107 they planned to show one picture 237 00:11:30,148 --> 00:11:33,317 of Theodore Kaczynski as a professor, 238 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,820 dressed very nicely, 239 00:11:35,861 --> 00:11:37,701 and the other was the picture 240 00:11:37,738 --> 00:11:41,368 when he's scruffy and being taken out, 241 00:11:41,408 --> 00:11:43,448 as being captured. 242 00:11:43,495 --> 00:11:48,245 So how did this successful mathematician turn into 243 00:11:48,290 --> 00:11:51,290 this kind of primitive-looking person? 244 00:11:53,212 --> 00:11:56,092 Newsreader: Meanwhile, the FBI's explored the possibility 245 00:11:56,131 --> 00:11:59,011 of having a Montana National Guard helicopter 246 00:11:59,052 --> 00:12:01,182 hoist Kaczynski's tiny shack 247 00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:03,181 onto a flatbed truck 248 00:12:03,222 --> 00:12:05,602 and then haul it out of the deep woods. 249 00:12:22,408 --> 00:12:24,489 John: Nothing made me think he was some madman. 250 00:12:24,536 --> 00:12:28,155 I wouldn't have been interested in visiting with him 251 00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:30,956 if, if I thought he was some psychotic individual 252 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,460 who had delusions or something like that. 253 00:12:33,503 --> 00:12:36,763 Ted Kaczynski and I started corresponding 254 00:12:36,797 --> 00:12:39,677 soon after his arrest in April '96. 255 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:43,677 Between the spring of '97 256 00:12:43,721 --> 00:12:46,182 and the beginning of 1998, 257 00:12:46,224 --> 00:12:48,693 I visited him three or four times. 258 00:12:48,726 --> 00:12:51,767 That was quite an experience just for me 259 00:12:51,812 --> 00:12:54,942 and of course, I wasn't- it wasn't my ass on the line. 260 00:12:57,317 --> 00:12:58,238 We were friendly, yeah. 261 00:12:58,278 --> 00:12:59,462 Yeah, it was very comfortable. 262 00:12:59,486 --> 00:13:01,486 I mean, it was very informal. 263 00:13:01,530 --> 00:13:03,370 You know. "How you doin', Ted?" 264 00:13:03,408 --> 00:13:05,778 I guess he just wanted somebody to talk to. 265 00:13:05,826 --> 00:13:07,995 I believe I was the only visitor he had. 266 00:13:08,037 --> 00:13:10,116 But I saw nothing whatsoever, 267 00:13:10,163 --> 00:13:12,833 nothing even slightly to suggest he was crazy. 268 00:13:14,251 --> 00:13:16,131 Newsreader: The finding that Theodore Kaczynski 269 00:13:16,169 --> 00:13:17,799 is competent to stand trial 270 00:13:17,837 --> 00:13:19,587 came after he spent nearly 20 hours 271 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:22,393 being examined by psychiatrist, Sally Johnson. 272 00:13:22,427 --> 00:13:26,346 And she diagnosed him as competent to stand trial, 273 00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:28,639 competent even to be sentenced to death, 274 00:13:28,682 --> 00:13:30,562 competent to defend himself, 275 00:13:30,601 --> 00:13:32,902 but having schizophrenia. 276 00:13:34,522 --> 00:13:36,152 Sasha: In prepping for the trial, 277 00:13:36,190 --> 00:13:38,168 the defense team was looking for mitigating evidence. 278 00:13:38,192 --> 00:13:40,701 These are any factors that could help the team 279 00:13:40,736 --> 00:13:43,986 try to convince the jury not to put Ted to death. 280 00:14:07,429 --> 00:14:09,389 John: But as things went on, 281 00:14:09,432 --> 00:14:11,142 matters got more and more tense. 282 00:14:11,183 --> 00:14:14,274 Because the main thing that he said over and over 283 00:14:14,312 --> 00:14:16,062 and over again was, 284 00:14:16,105 --> 00:14:17,764 "You can adopt any defense you like, 285 00:14:17,816 --> 00:14:19,395 except insanity defense, 286 00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:22,990 which would make a mockery of my work, 287 00:14:23,028 --> 00:14:25,778 the whole reason that I exist." 288 00:14:27,533 --> 00:14:31,083 I was shocked by the defense team's decision 289 00:14:32,455 --> 00:14:34,365 that when they go to trial, 290 00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:37,591 that they were going to use 291 00:14:37,626 --> 00:14:40,086 the information of him being 292 00:14:40,129 --> 00:14:42,629 three years at Harvard University in an experiment. 293 00:14:43,923 --> 00:14:45,594 So part of what the defense team found 294 00:14:45,634 --> 00:14:48,424 were fragmentary records of a psychological study 295 00:14:48,471 --> 00:14:51,100 that Ted had participated in 296 00:14:51,139 --> 00:14:52,769 during his undergrad days at Harvard. 297 00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:55,399 The study lasted over a period of 3 years 298 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:57,056 and they met on a weekly basis. 299 00:14:58,355 --> 00:14:59,765 It's never been heard in public. 300 00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:06,280 We have no idea what happened 301 00:15:06,322 --> 00:15:08,621 over the course of the 3-year period. 302 00:15:08,658 --> 00:15:11,158 This audio only gives us a very small glance 303 00:15:11,201 --> 00:15:12,951 into what really happened. 304 00:15:29,345 --> 00:15:31,345 I didn't know about the experiments 305 00:15:31,389 --> 00:15:33,139 Ted was undergoing. 306 00:15:33,182 --> 00:15:34,932 He never talked about them to me. 307 00:15:34,975 --> 00:15:37,014 I don't remember it being a conversation 308 00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:41,110 within our family until long after Ted's arrest. 309 00:15:41,148 --> 00:15:43,937 My brother was subjected to research 310 00:15:43,984 --> 00:15:46,033 that by today's standards 311 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:48,279 would be considered completely unethical. 312 00:16:02,001 --> 00:16:04,052 Roy: He was one of the people 313 00:16:04,087 --> 00:16:06,217 that I really considered a best friend. 314 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:11,889 I have just a wonderfully warm feeling about him, 315 00:16:11,929 --> 00:16:14,269 and I think I used the word lovable. 316 00:16:15,515 --> 00:16:17,975 We found common ground 317 00:16:18,018 --> 00:16:21,057 and I remember lots and lots of wonderful discussions 318 00:16:21,105 --> 00:16:23,264 and so I really valued our friendship. 319 00:16:24,484 --> 00:16:26,283 It was sad to see that he, 320 00:16:27,486 --> 00:16:29,777 as a result of some experiments, 321 00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,202 withdrew from the friendship. 322 00:16:33,618 --> 00:16:37,327 If I had known how evil - and I'll use that word - 323 00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:39,540 those experiments were, 324 00:16:39,581 --> 00:16:41,081 I certainly would have done something. 325 00:16:56,682 --> 00:16:58,451 Sasha: This experiment basically was an experiment 326 00:16:58,475 --> 00:17:00,385 run by Henry Murray, 327 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:02,145 At the Harvard psych department. 328 00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:04,817 But when it comes to these interviews with Ted, 329 00:17:04,857 --> 00:17:06,817 the files are sealed. 330 00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:08,240 You can't get access to them. 331 00:17:23,459 --> 00:17:25,749 What we do know for certain 332 00:17:25,795 --> 00:17:27,914 is that Henry Murray was looking into 333 00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:30,423 the effects of stress on human beings, 334 00:17:30,465 --> 00:17:32,256 specifically he was looking at 335 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,681 interrogation strategies and techniques 336 00:17:34,721 --> 00:17:36,681 and how human beings are able to 337 00:17:36,722 --> 00:17:38,603 kind of be resilient 338 00:17:38,641 --> 00:17:40,480 to aggressive interrogative tactics. 339 00:17:40,518 --> 00:17:42,268 It was very unpleasant. 340 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:44,191 That was the point of the experiment. 341 00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:46,940 He wanted to understand the dark sides of human beings 342 00:17:46,982 --> 00:17:48,992 and the light sides of human beings. 343 00:17:59,369 --> 00:18:03,500 Murray subjected them to harsh critiques of their ideas 344 00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:06,500 and he was very interested in seeing how they responded, 345 00:18:06,544 --> 00:18:08,503 how they performed 346 00:18:08,546 --> 00:18:11,296 when there was really a stressful situation. 347 00:18:11,339 --> 00:18:13,839 Ted was told he was gonna be debating 348 00:18:13,884 --> 00:18:16,795 political philosophy with a fellow student. 349 00:18:16,846 --> 00:18:19,215 How tempting that would have been. 350 00:18:19,265 --> 00:18:21,384 It was not a debate. 351 00:18:21,433 --> 00:18:23,144 It was a full-on aggressive attack 352 00:18:23,184 --> 00:18:25,265 of Ted as a human being, as Ted as an intellect. 353 00:18:34,529 --> 00:18:36,490 Forrest: You couldn't do those experiments today. 354 00:18:36,531 --> 00:18:39,491 But you certainly could in 1958 to 1962. 355 00:18:41,244 --> 00:18:44,035 There was nothing at the time of an objection 356 00:18:44,082 --> 00:18:46,332 to what Harry was doing. 357 00:18:46,375 --> 00:18:48,454 It was simply taken for granted that 358 00:18:48,501 --> 00:18:51,592 that was how you had conducted research of that kind. 359 00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:53,510 Ted was deceived. 360 00:18:53,548 --> 00:18:55,719 He didn't know that this person had a script 361 00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:58,259 and the person's objective 362 00:18:58,304 --> 00:19:00,433 was to humiliate and traumatize him. 363 00:19:14,694 --> 00:19:16,315 Forrest: The goals were not malicious 364 00:19:16,363 --> 00:19:19,123 or malign in any way. Why would they be? 365 00:19:19,157 --> 00:19:20,988 Why would this man who had been working 366 00:19:21,035 --> 00:19:23,575 in psychology for decades 367 00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:25,473 and who had produced some of the best psychologists 368 00:19:25,498 --> 00:19:27,917 in the United States at the time, 369 00:19:27,959 --> 00:19:31,709 why would he engage in malignant interrogation? 370 00:19:31,753 --> 00:19:34,634 Henry Murray was a very high ranking academic, 371 00:19:34,673 --> 00:19:36,884 very successful career 372 00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:39,506 with well established expertise in interrogations. 373 00:19:39,552 --> 00:19:41,972 And he was very involved 374 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:45,224 in developing interrogation techniques for the OSS, 375 00:19:45,267 --> 00:19:48,146 which is the Office of Strategic Services. 376 00:19:48,186 --> 00:19:51,146 The Second World War precursor of the CIA. 377 00:19:55,402 --> 00:19:57,612 So, interrogation, as we all know, 378 00:19:57,654 --> 00:19:59,525 is questioning somebody to try and find out, 379 00:19:59,573 --> 00:20:01,202 "Did they commit a crime?" 380 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,080 Enhanced interrogation is 381 00:20:03,118 --> 00:20:05,199 when you add on all these mind control methods, 382 00:20:05,244 --> 00:20:07,365 drugs, hypnosis, 383 00:20:07,413 --> 00:20:08,673 sensory deprivation, 384 00:20:08,708 --> 00:20:10,327 sensory isolation, 385 00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:12,165 good cop/bad cop techniques. 386 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,631 Whatever you could dream up 387 00:20:14,672 --> 00:20:16,511 to try and get something out of somebody. 388 00:20:16,548 --> 00:20:18,759 Forrest: Henry Murray was not an evil scientist. 389 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,851 There are some plausible arguments to be made 390 00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:23,096 that he had some connections with the CIA. 391 00:20:23,138 --> 00:20:26,179 But he was very proud of his service to the country 392 00:20:26,224 --> 00:20:28,805 and took working with the CIA, 393 00:20:28,853 --> 00:20:31,442 if he did, as part of that responsibility, 394 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,859 he was a responsible citizen. 395 00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,200 And the country needed good assessment of personnel. 396 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:40,026 So, he could provide that better than anyone else could. 397 00:20:42,490 --> 00:20:46,080 I was a career operations officer in the CIA, 398 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,660 who became involved, for a time, 399 00:20:48,705 --> 00:20:51,576 in the interrogation 400 00:20:51,625 --> 00:20:53,414 of one of the top members, 401 00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:55,710 we believed, of Al-Qaeda. 402 00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:58,545 And thereby was involved 403 00:20:58,590 --> 00:21:00,340 for that time, 404 00:21:00,384 --> 00:21:02,144 in the enhanced interrogation program, 405 00:21:02,178 --> 00:21:04,387 which is torture 406 00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:08,349 and is mind-altering procedures. 407 00:21:08,392 --> 00:21:10,561 My experiences, tragically, 408 00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,022 are directly relevant 409 00:21:12,063 --> 00:21:13,623 to the experience Kaczynski went through 410 00:21:13,646 --> 00:21:16,186 because the methods used by the CIA 411 00:21:16,233 --> 00:21:18,534 were directly derived from - 412 00:21:18,568 --> 00:21:20,449 not just inspired by - 413 00:21:20,487 --> 00:21:23,527 what Murray was trying to do in the '50s and early '60s. 414 00:21:23,574 --> 00:21:25,624 And that is that you can break somebody down 415 00:21:25,659 --> 00:21:27,489 and you can alter their mind. 416 00:21:28,828 --> 00:21:30,538 The theory was, 417 00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:32,433 you will be psychologically broken down and dislocated 418 00:21:32,458 --> 00:21:34,288 so that you can then be reformed 419 00:21:34,334 --> 00:21:36,173 as a cooperative source. 420 00:21:46,888 --> 00:21:48,469 Forrest: The idea that Harry Murray 421 00:21:48,515 --> 00:21:51,055 was the villain, a malignant character, 422 00:21:51,102 --> 00:21:53,561 and that Theodore Kaczynski was the victim, 423 00:21:53,604 --> 00:21:55,773 all of that is, is nonsense. 424 00:21:55,815 --> 00:21:57,605 It's simply without foundation. 425 00:22:25,135 --> 00:22:26,885 Sasha: Ted was a child 426 00:22:26,929 --> 00:22:29,219 when he was exposed to these experiments. 427 00:22:29,265 --> 00:22:32,134 He was 16, 17. So it is absolutely possible 428 00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:34,934 that the study had a profound impact 429 00:22:34,979 --> 00:22:36,979 on Ted's neurobiological development. 430 00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:39,942 Thousands of students all over the United States 431 00:22:39,983 --> 00:22:42,243 performed very ably in these kinds of experiments 432 00:22:42,278 --> 00:22:44,028 without a problem. 433 00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:46,530 I do not believe that the testing 434 00:22:46,573 --> 00:22:49,242 at the Harvard Psychological Clinic did anything at all 435 00:22:49,285 --> 00:22:52,325 to transform Theodore Kaczynski. 436 00:23:04,423 --> 00:23:06,804 Ted had built his entire life 437 00:23:06,844 --> 00:23:09,723 and his entire sense of self and pride in himself 438 00:23:09,762 --> 00:23:12,022 on his intelligence, on his intellect, 439 00:23:12,057 --> 00:23:13,097 on his ability to think 440 00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:15,231 and critically reason and use logic. 441 00:23:15,269 --> 00:23:17,858 And this study, 442 00:23:17,896 --> 00:23:21,227 what it did is it slowly tore that away from him. 443 00:23:44,422 --> 00:23:46,483 Ted had told his attorneys and they relayed it to me, 444 00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:48,048 they asked him, 445 00:23:48,094 --> 00:23:50,072 "Ted, why did you put up with this for three years? 446 00:23:50,096 --> 00:23:52,266 I mean, these people were just humiliating you, 447 00:23:52,306 --> 00:23:54,385 why did you put up with this?" 448 00:23:54,432 --> 00:23:56,231 And uh, 449 00:23:56,269 --> 00:23:58,308 he-he-he basically said, 450 00:23:58,354 --> 00:24:00,074 well, I wanted to show that I could take it, 451 00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:01,726 that I couldn't be broken. 452 00:24:03,025 --> 00:24:05,434 And the thought that occurs to me was, 453 00:24:05,484 --> 00:24:07,565 well, maybe sometimes it's better to be broken 454 00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:09,202 than to be hardened. 455 00:24:14,869 --> 00:24:17,250 Roy: He was rapidly withdrawing from... 456 00:24:17,289 --> 00:24:19,630 I mean, he was really becoming 457 00:24:19,665 --> 00:24:21,536 like might be called paranoid or whatever, 458 00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:24,625 but he was rejecting other people. 459 00:24:24,671 --> 00:24:27,550 And according to what I heard it was 460 00:24:29,009 --> 00:24:32,308 following the start of these psychology experiments. 461 00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:36,099 It's perverse. It's sick. 462 00:24:36,142 --> 00:24:37,642 It doesn't work. 463 00:24:37,683 --> 00:24:39,903 And it's wrong in every conceivable way. 464 00:24:39,936 --> 00:24:42,557 But that's what Kaczynski was subjected to. 465 00:24:44,023 --> 00:24:46,943 Those experiments could have really fueled the fire. 466 00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:50,486 And really made him distrust the powers that be, 467 00:24:50,529 --> 00:24:53,329 the authorities and be hostile towards them. 468 00:24:53,366 --> 00:24:55,386 It's not hard to imagine that when he's being attacked 469 00:24:55,411 --> 00:24:57,500 and discredited and broken down, 470 00:24:57,537 --> 00:24:59,076 he's gonna have to have 471 00:24:59,123 --> 00:25:01,462 some sort of counterattack psychologically. 472 00:25:01,499 --> 00:25:03,669 So, he's going to have to become counter-rigid, 473 00:25:03,710 --> 00:25:06,670 counter-certain and counter-hostile, 474 00:25:06,712 --> 00:25:09,222 and then he just turns that into behavior in the world. 475 00:25:13,011 --> 00:25:14,811 Linda: We began to think about 476 00:25:14,846 --> 00:25:19,227 how this three-year experiment in which Ted was involved, 477 00:25:19,268 --> 00:25:22,357 that that might have triggered his schizophrenia. 478 00:25:22,395 --> 00:25:24,395 I think it would be a mistake 479 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,400 to have this simple reductionistic formula 480 00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:29,112 and say, oh, you know, Kaczynski was made into 481 00:25:29,153 --> 00:25:31,913 the Unabomber at Harvard, that's much too simplistic. 482 00:25:31,946 --> 00:25:35,447 But certainly, those studies were-were harmful to him. 483 00:25:44,584 --> 00:25:46,634 John: What was revealed, I think, beyond question, 484 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:49,839 was that his lawyers were death penalty liberals, 485 00:25:49,882 --> 00:25:51,471 I guess you would say, 486 00:25:51,509 --> 00:25:53,638 that anything goes to protect his life. 487 00:25:55,136 --> 00:25:57,307 Newsreader: Kaczynski stopped the trial 488 00:25:57,347 --> 00:25:59,548 when he demanded to defend himself earlier this month... 489 00:26:06,731 --> 00:26:10,031 but Judge Burrell says the request may have been too late. 490 00:26:10,068 --> 00:26:11,949 He called one time, 491 00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,487 and I said, "Ted, there's something you gotta know. 492 00:26:14,531 --> 00:26:17,082 I think you're the last person who doesn't know this. 493 00:26:17,116 --> 00:26:20,537 It's an insanity defense and nothing else, straight up." 494 00:26:21,997 --> 00:26:23,497 And I'll never forget what he said. 495 00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:25,961 He said, "Why, the lying bastards." 496 00:26:27,377 --> 00:26:30,008 You know, it was kind of amazing. 497 00:26:30,047 --> 00:26:32,336 If the Unabomber is schizophrenic, 498 00:26:32,383 --> 00:26:35,052 it kind of undercuts his whole mission. 499 00:26:35,094 --> 00:26:37,933 People say, "Oh, these are the deeds of a madman. 500 00:26:37,971 --> 00:26:39,770 You know, you'd have to be crazy 501 00:26:39,806 --> 00:26:41,976 to be so concerned about technology 502 00:26:42,017 --> 00:26:43,807 that you do what Kaczynski has done." 503 00:26:46,688 --> 00:26:48,397 Ted wanted to fire his attorneys; 504 00:26:48,441 --> 00:26:50,780 he didn't want anyone saying he was mentally ill. 505 00:26:52,736 --> 00:26:55,155 Phillip: The judge said, 506 00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:56,567 "It's too late in the trial. 507 00:26:56,614 --> 00:26:58,953 It would take too many months for new attorneys 508 00:26:58,991 --> 00:27:01,041 to get up to speed." 509 00:27:01,077 --> 00:27:03,748 He said, "All right. Then I'll represent myself. 510 00:27:03,788 --> 00:27:06,459 I don't want these attorneys representing me." 511 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,710 John: And the judge simply said, 512 00:27:08,751 --> 00:27:10,896 "You-you don't have the right to just throw all this out 513 00:27:10,921 --> 00:27:12,560 at this stage of the game. You just don't. 514 00:27:12,589 --> 00:27:15,130 So, I'm ruling against it. You are stuck with them 515 00:27:15,174 --> 00:27:17,384 and you are stuck with their defense. 516 00:27:17,428 --> 00:27:19,008 Insanity." 517 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,309 And that night he tried to kill himself, 518 00:27:22,348 --> 00:27:23,848 he tried to hang himself. 519 00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:28,309 This is not manipulation, this is not cunning, 520 00:27:28,355 --> 00:27:30,434 this is not an attempt of someone 521 00:27:30,482 --> 00:27:32,732 to escape legal process, 522 00:27:32,776 --> 00:27:36,105 this is a very heartfelt reaction on his part. 523 00:27:36,154 --> 00:27:37,565 Phillip: You know, he felt that 524 00:27:37,615 --> 00:27:39,404 everything he had worked for, now, 525 00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:42,119 was going to be made out as mental illness; 526 00:27:42,161 --> 00:27:44,750 that he was not in control. 527 00:27:56,258 --> 00:27:58,298 Newsreader: In California, 528 00:27:58,344 --> 00:28:00,279 the trial of the Unabomber has come to an abrupt end 529 00:28:00,304 --> 00:28:02,523 just as opening statements were about to start. 530 00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:05,016 Ted Kaczynski pleaded guilty to murder 531 00:28:05,057 --> 00:28:08,438 in exchange for life in prison. 532 00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:12,900 Gary: I got a call to say that I could down 533 00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,240 and give the victim's impact statement. 534 00:28:15,277 --> 00:28:17,856 As I'm reading my statement, I go through it. 535 00:28:17,903 --> 00:28:20,124 Ted Kaczynski had been sitting at the desk. 536 00:28:20,156 --> 00:28:22,656 He had a yellow legal pad takin' lots of notes 537 00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:25,410 and there comes a point in the statement I say to him, 538 00:28:25,453 --> 00:28:27,413 "You know, Ted, I don't hate you. 539 00:28:27,455 --> 00:28:30,375 I forgave you and I forgave you a long time ago." 540 00:28:30,416 --> 00:28:34,207 And in that second, when I told him that I forgave him, 541 00:28:34,253 --> 00:28:37,134 his pencil dropped and he just looks at me, 542 00:28:37,173 --> 00:28:40,094 like, I've got these eyes staring right back at me 543 00:28:40,134 --> 00:28:42,255 and for me, it was the perfect transference. 544 00:28:42,304 --> 00:28:44,104 It's like, "Nope, you own it. 545 00:28:44,138 --> 00:28:46,388 Now I've transferred it to you. You carry it. 546 00:28:46,432 --> 00:28:48,143 I've carried it a long time." 547 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:51,362 I mean, I think it shocked him 548 00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:54,267 because he wasn't expecting any empathy from anybody. 549 00:28:57,653 --> 00:29:00,073 John: Well, on the day he was sentenced from the plea deal, 550 00:29:00,113 --> 00:29:03,032 I visited him one last time. 551 00:29:03,075 --> 00:29:05,484 And all of the, the lawyers were all gone, 552 00:29:05,536 --> 00:29:08,496 the hundreds of the international media, 553 00:29:08,538 --> 00:29:12,128 two blocks long of stuff, all gone. All over. 554 00:29:15,961 --> 00:29:18,051 And that was the last I saw him and uh... 555 00:29:19,173 --> 00:29:20,933 I said, 556 00:29:20,967 --> 00:29:22,547 "So what was that like? 557 00:29:22,595 --> 00:29:24,134 How did that feel?" 558 00:29:24,179 --> 00:29:27,019 And he said, "Well, it was the damnedest thing. 559 00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:28,767 They brought in all these people 560 00:29:28,807 --> 00:29:30,688 who were weeping and wailing, 561 00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:33,018 but the plea deal had already been arranged, 562 00:29:33,063 --> 00:29:34,903 already been agreed to. So, what is the point?" 563 00:29:36,275 --> 00:29:37,934 And I thought to myself, 564 00:29:37,983 --> 00:29:40,403 "Well, you killed their loved ones. 565 00:29:40,445 --> 00:29:42,195 Might be one reason." 566 00:29:46,117 --> 00:29:48,998 It was a little bit chilling. 567 00:29:49,037 --> 00:29:51,326 Like, you don't know why these people would want to come 568 00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:54,292 and express their grief or, you know? 569 00:29:55,794 --> 00:29:58,673 That didn't seem to be part of it. 570 00:30:24,905 --> 00:30:26,776 Bob: It's an ultra secure prison. 571 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:30,035 We have 122 prisons in the federal prison system 572 00:30:30,077 --> 00:30:32,367 but there's only one Supermax. 573 00:30:35,459 --> 00:30:37,128 If you were going to design a person, 574 00:30:37,169 --> 00:30:39,459 to do Supermax time 575 00:30:39,505 --> 00:30:41,625 it's Kaczynski, 576 00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:43,223 it's Kaczynski. 577 00:30:43,258 --> 00:30:46,048 He has the ability to not need others. 578 00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:50,808 During my tenure there, he was a model inmate. 579 00:32:50,009 --> 00:32:51,638 Bob: He's Ted Kaczynski. 580 00:32:51,677 --> 00:32:53,887 He controls the box. 581 00:32:53,931 --> 00:32:55,810 We control the prison. 582 00:32:55,848 --> 00:32:57,638 He controls the box. 583 00:32:57,683 --> 00:33:00,153 Kevin: Like most political terrorists, 584 00:33:00,185 --> 00:33:02,516 he wants to have a soapbox, 585 00:33:02,564 --> 00:33:05,443 for his, you know, for his cause. 586 00:33:05,483 --> 00:33:08,534 He knows that he has a conduit to the outside world 587 00:33:08,569 --> 00:33:10,660 where he can send his writings. 588 00:33:10,696 --> 00:33:13,906 He-he must spend hours a day writing. 589 00:33:13,951 --> 00:33:16,451 I-I would say he's probably satisfied 590 00:33:16,494 --> 00:33:18,744 that he's been able to communicate with people 591 00:33:18,788 --> 00:33:21,038 and get the ideas out, get books published. 592 00:33:21,082 --> 00:33:24,092 He can be a voice for what he wants to get done. 593 00:33:25,921 --> 00:33:27,510 Newsreader: An environmental group 594 00:33:27,547 --> 00:33:29,547 claimed responsibility for the blaze 595 00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:32,300 which caused an estimated $12 million in damage. 596 00:33:32,344 --> 00:33:34,723 The group says it was protesting an expansion 597 00:33:34,762 --> 00:33:37,222 of the resort that threatened wildlife. 598 00:33:37,265 --> 00:33:40,555 Tim: I think the Unabomber to a lot of kids 599 00:33:40,602 --> 00:33:43,271 in the mid 90's and late 90's, 600 00:33:43,313 --> 00:33:45,823 yeah, I think Ted was an inspiration. 601 00:33:45,857 --> 00:33:48,278 And they were going out into 602 00:33:48,317 --> 00:33:50,897 about 10 to 15 western states, burnin' shit down. 603 00:34:11,590 --> 00:34:13,391 They were ratcheting things up. 604 00:34:13,425 --> 00:34:15,505 It wasn't just blockades anymore, 605 00:34:15,554 --> 00:34:17,643 and it just wasn't peaceful non-violent protests. 606 00:34:21,226 --> 00:34:23,436 Theresa: I think Kaczynski thinks of himself 607 00:34:23,478 --> 00:34:25,768 as a revolutionary in the sense that 608 00:34:25,813 --> 00:34:29,153 people feel very powerless against this, you know... 609 00:34:29,192 --> 00:34:32,072 in anarchist circles, often it's called the "mega-machine". 610 00:34:32,110 --> 00:34:34,280 Police: Do not resist arrest. 611 00:34:34,322 --> 00:34:37,081 You know, this whole industrial society. 612 00:34:37,115 --> 00:34:39,615 He was kind of a vanguard 613 00:34:39,661 --> 00:34:41,451 that wanted to demonstrate 614 00:34:43,706 --> 00:34:46,376 that you can fight back against the system. 615 00:34:46,418 --> 00:34:48,248 Whose streets? -Our streets! 616 00:34:48,293 --> 00:34:50,134 Whose streets? -Our streets! 617 00:34:50,170 --> 00:34:51,590 Yeah! 618 00:35:09,065 --> 00:35:11,106 Shit, get out of here! -Get the fuck out of here! 619 00:35:32,713 --> 00:35:36,014 Glenn: He's the latest in a long history of people 620 00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:39,681 who have struck out against society's norms 621 00:35:39,721 --> 00:35:41,641 thinking that they knew the way to uh... 622 00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:43,221 solve them through violence. 623 00:36:06,873 --> 00:36:08,632 Theresa: It's dangerous 624 00:36:08,666 --> 00:36:11,126 for him to encourage others 625 00:36:11,168 --> 00:36:13,878 to try to follow that model 626 00:36:13,922 --> 00:36:16,882 and talk about, write about, 627 00:36:16,925 --> 00:36:20,715 advise other activists to take human life. 628 00:36:22,472 --> 00:36:24,431 It's not the way forward. 629 00:36:24,474 --> 00:36:28,063 There has to be a red line for activists. 630 00:36:29,603 --> 00:36:32,443 I think Kaczynski's way was not the right way. 631 00:36:32,481 --> 00:36:35,492 I think his writing was the right way. 632 00:36:37,987 --> 00:36:39,818 Bob: If you put the doctor name on there 633 00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:41,945 you had it as part of a course at the college 634 00:36:41,992 --> 00:36:43,621 and you studied it, 635 00:36:45,077 --> 00:36:46,038 we wouldn't be as shocked. 636 00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:48,789 I'd say he's 90% there, 637 00:36:48,831 --> 00:36:50,831 and if you haven't read it, you're going to say, 638 00:36:50,876 --> 00:36:52,786 "Gosh this warden's - he drank the water! 639 00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:54,706 Stockholm syndrome is kicking in! 640 00:36:54,753 --> 00:36:56,173 He's getting too close! 641 00:36:56,213 --> 00:36:58,884 Kaczynski must have hypnotized him", or whatever. 642 00:36:58,925 --> 00:37:01,085 No, writing is writing. 643 00:37:01,135 --> 00:37:04,556 Academic and criminal activity should be, 644 00:37:04,597 --> 00:37:06,556 could be separated here. 645 00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:08,349 It's today... it's today on paper. 646 00:37:08,393 --> 00:37:10,193 Hey, I get it. 647 00:37:11,688 --> 00:37:13,858 If we look at the problems that have progressed 648 00:37:13,898 --> 00:37:15,898 in the last say 20 years, 649 00:37:15,942 --> 00:37:17,822 since the manifesto came out, 650 00:37:17,860 --> 00:37:20,490 virtually all areas of concern have gotten worse. 651 00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:22,090 And the root cause of all these problems 652 00:37:22,114 --> 00:37:24,025 is advanced technology. 653 00:37:24,076 --> 00:37:25,985 All the evidence suggests that he was right, 654 00:37:26,036 --> 00:37:28,326 that the system is at the root cause of these problems, 655 00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:29,831 that we cannot control it, 656 00:37:29,873 --> 00:37:32,543 we cannot stop it and very quickly, 657 00:37:32,583 --> 00:37:34,134 we may even lose the ability 658 00:37:34,168 --> 00:37:36,628 to even undermine the system 659 00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:38,300 and then it will be too late. 660 00:37:40,298 --> 00:37:42,389 I just can't understand the leap 661 00:37:42,427 --> 00:37:44,347 of having to do it with violence 662 00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:46,387 and killing innocent people. 663 00:37:46,431 --> 00:37:48,141 If you go right to the part that says, 664 00:37:48,182 --> 00:37:50,733 "I might have to hurt people to get this word out 665 00:37:50,768 --> 00:37:52,413 because otherwise they might not print it", 666 00:37:52,436 --> 00:37:54,056 that's bent. 667 00:37:54,106 --> 00:37:56,686 There's victims, there's people that were harmed. 668 00:37:56,733 --> 00:37:58,483 And what do we want? 669 00:37:58,525 --> 00:38:00,356 If we want him to die, keep him where he is... 670 00:38:00,402 --> 00:38:01,702 he'll probably die. 671 00:38:03,782 --> 00:38:05,081 Ted's in a box. 672 00:38:06,867 --> 00:38:09,407 Most likely his next box will be underground. 673 00:38:11,873 --> 00:38:13,373 Newsreader: In Sacramento today, 674 00:38:13,416 --> 00:38:16,126 a redwood was dedicated to the memory of Gill Murray, 675 00:38:16,168 --> 00:38:18,088 Kaczynski's last victim. 676 00:38:18,130 --> 00:38:21,170 Prosecutors say that bomb was so devastating 677 00:38:21,215 --> 00:38:23,675 that Murray's family was left with nothing to bury 678 00:38:23,717 --> 00:38:25,338 but his feet. 679 00:38:27,097 --> 00:38:30,347 You had a program to try improve the world. 680 00:38:30,391 --> 00:38:32,021 How much improvement is it 681 00:38:32,059 --> 00:38:33,900 when you're killing people off doing it? 682 00:38:33,936 --> 00:38:36,516 Every time I reach out to do something 683 00:38:36,563 --> 00:38:39,153 I'm reminded by the lack of dexterity in my hand. 684 00:38:39,192 --> 00:38:41,242 I mean, this will be always be with me. 685 00:38:41,277 --> 00:38:42,898 There is no closure, 686 00:38:42,945 --> 00:38:44,465 my arm doesn't suddenly come back on Monday 687 00:38:44,489 --> 00:38:45,989 when he's sentenced. 688 00:38:46,032 --> 00:38:48,291 There's no such thing as closure. 689 00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:51,195 There's different, there's better, 690 00:38:51,246 --> 00:38:53,496 there's all kinds of other words, 691 00:38:53,539 --> 00:38:55,329 but there's no closure. 692 00:38:55,373 --> 00:38:57,753 Closure means it's done. It's never done. 693 00:38:57,793 --> 00:38:59,884 It's not ever gonna be done. 694 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,630 But I don't believe in being a victim. 695 00:39:02,673 --> 00:39:04,884 I believe in being a survivor, 696 00:39:04,925 --> 00:39:06,925 and making a difference and fighting. 697 00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,429 Little by little, part of our healing 698 00:39:09,472 --> 00:39:12,681 began to come about through contacts 699 00:39:12,724 --> 00:39:14,844 with some of the victims. 700 00:39:14,893 --> 00:39:16,903 I think it was Linda's idea, she says, 701 00:39:16,938 --> 00:39:18,373 you know, we should really write to those people 702 00:39:18,396 --> 00:39:20,646 and apologize and tell them, you know, 703 00:39:20,692 --> 00:39:23,532 no matter how much we're trying to save Ted's life, 704 00:39:23,568 --> 00:39:26,358 it doesn't mean that we devalue their loved ones life. 705 00:39:26,405 --> 00:39:28,695 He called one evening 706 00:39:28,740 --> 00:39:31,161 and he had to leave a message. 707 00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:33,253 So, it was like, "Ah, well, I'm David Kaczynski." 708 00:39:33,288 --> 00:39:35,117 So really uncomfortable for him. 709 00:39:35,164 --> 00:39:37,074 But a little while later 710 00:39:37,125 --> 00:39:39,204 when he and I finally connected, 711 00:39:39,251 --> 00:39:41,052 I just said, "Hey, David. 712 00:39:41,086 --> 00:39:42,956 This-this isn't your burden to carry. 713 00:39:43,005 --> 00:39:44,916 It's going to get better. 714 00:39:44,965 --> 00:39:46,795 But you can't carry this one. 715 00:39:46,842 --> 00:39:48,592 And so, I said, "if you ever need to talk, 716 00:39:48,635 --> 00:39:51,005 just feel free, 24/7, just call me." 717 00:39:51,056 --> 00:39:53,346 And he's become a dear, dear friend of ours, 718 00:39:53,391 --> 00:39:55,521 of many years standing. 719 00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:59,519 I think it was kind of ironic 720 00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:01,864 but a lot bigger than me, 721 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,690 that two guys could, you know, 722 00:40:04,735 --> 00:40:06,815 go through crap 723 00:40:06,862 --> 00:40:08,373 and then come together. 724 00:40:10,032 --> 00:40:12,083 And to me, that's what gives me some hope, 725 00:40:12,117 --> 00:40:14,367 the idea that there is this, sort of this, 726 00:40:14,411 --> 00:40:16,291 this goodness in people that, 727 00:40:16,331 --> 00:40:18,380 that transcends... 728 00:40:20,043 --> 00:40:22,213 um, the anger, the violence, the... 729 00:40:22,253 --> 00:40:24,264 You know, the prejudice, 730 00:40:24,297 --> 00:40:26,467 the bad things we see from time to time. 731 00:40:27,675 --> 00:40:29,545 There is uh, 732 00:40:29,594 --> 00:40:33,313 there is a core of humanity that's just like... 733 00:40:35,682 --> 00:40:40,233 * Man, now what has been done * 734 00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:42,021 * Man can't stand himself * 735 00:40:42,065 --> 00:40:45,184 * Or where he's told that he belong * 736 00:40:46,485 --> 00:40:49,445 * Man don't understand * 737 00:40:49,487 --> 00:40:51,737 * Man blames everyone * 738 00:40:51,782 --> 00:40:55,293 * Everyone under the sun * 739 00:40:55,327 --> 00:40:57,657 * Tell me what has man become * 740 00:41:00,657 --> 00:41:04,657 Preuzeto sa www.titlovi.com 55785

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.