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The date has now
been set for the murder trial
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of Richard Allen, the
man accused of killing
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two Delphi teens back in 2017.
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00:00:17,059 --> 00:00:21,772
50-year-old Allen, a married
father, charged last October.
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He has pleaded not guilty.
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It's now been
nearly seven years
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since Abby Williams and
Libby German were killed.
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It's been an emotional
roller coaster.
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Not having details, I feel
like my mind kind of filled in.
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I just felt like
everything went really fast
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and really slow all
at the same time.
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All these
years of building up
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and waiting and anticipation.
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You just don't
even know what to do.
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Days ran into each other.
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I struggled really badly
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with my mental health.
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You're nobody in prison.
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It was horrible.
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We were helpless.
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There was nothing we could do
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other than take his phone calls.
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00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:07,234
My belief is Richard
Allen is innocent.
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What happened
to Richard Allen
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should make every single
person uneasy and angry.
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Half the town does
want it to be over.
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The other half,
we don't feel that
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they've done right
by Richard Allen.
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My name is Nicholas McLeland.
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I'm the Carroll
County prosecutor.
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This investigation is
still very ongoing.
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We are not going to
talk about the evidence
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that we have in this case.
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I would be lying
if I didn't admit
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we were a little bit concerned,
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because the prosecutor,
Nick, is young.
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I told Nick, I said,
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"You screw up, I
will call you out."
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We will have our opportunity
and day in court when
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we can present the evidence
that we have against him.
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But until that day, he
is presumed innocent.
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00:01:47,232 --> 00:01:50,444
I think Delphi has
changed from this crime.
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The evil has not been
expunged from Delphi yet.
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We're not even close.
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This case received so
much worldwide attention.
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This is a case of a lifetime.
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But I don't say that with glee.
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It's a fact.
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People are interested in
justice for those girls.
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There's a lot of pressure.
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The stakes were so high.
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A man's life
is on the line here.
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It's difficult to prepare
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for a trial of this magnitude.
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It's like
running a marathon.
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Every mile hurts.
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The last few miles hurt
worse than the first.
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Brad and I
were going through
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00:02:40,285 --> 00:02:41,787
the mounds and
mounds of evidence
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00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:43,664
to show that Richard
Allen is innocent.
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00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:45,040
All right.
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00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:47,501
It was a Saturday morning,
and my mind exploded.
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It's 10:00 in the morning.
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I've been up a while.
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Had a breakthrough
late last night.
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I stumbled upon
a 12-page report.
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There's evidence here
that this highly unusual
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Norse pagan religion might be
connected to the crime scene.
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I'm reading one thing,
and I'm like, holy crap.
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And then the second one,
I'm like, oh, my God.
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Law enforcement saw
that there were hallmarks
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at the crime scene that
suggested ritualistic activity.
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It made you think
that a person, or persons,
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did place things on the girls
for a particular reason.
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My name is
Dawn Perlmutter,
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00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,174
and I'm a ritualistic
crime expert.
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I've worked on hundreds of
cases of ritualistic crimes
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00:03:39,261 --> 00:03:43,640
with the FBI, the DEA,
Homeland Security.
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I get called in when there's
very unusual types of evidence.
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The defense wanted
my opinion on whether
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this crime scene was ritualistic
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and what I thought was going on.
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When I first looked at
the crime scene photos,
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what stood out to me were
the body positionings,
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00:04:08,373 --> 00:04:13,128
the arrangement of the
branches on their bodies,
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00:04:13,211 --> 00:04:17,341
and what appears to have
been a symbol on the tree
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was done in the victim's blood.
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I can tell you from experience
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that these are common indicators
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of ritualistic crime.
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Once you determine that it may
be a ritualistic crime scene,
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then the next step is
determining which group
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00:04:39,112 --> 00:04:41,156
it may be affiliated with.
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00:04:41,239 --> 00:04:43,701
Early on in the case,
law enforcement started
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looking at a group of
people in the Delphi area
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called Odinists.
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Odinism is
a contemporary religion
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that takes its inspiration in
the pre-Christian religions
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of Northern Europe, so
Germanic and Norse religions.
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These are people
who had worshipped
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00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:06,807
the gods Odin and Thor.
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00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:10,144
I think the branches that
were covering the bodies
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were placed in a
very specific way,
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and in my opinion,
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they look like runic symbols.
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00:05:16,608 --> 00:05:21,447
Runes are the ancient
alphabet of Norse people,
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and they are very
much incorporated
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into contemporary heathenry.
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I've had several
cases with runes
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in ritualistic crime scenes.
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They're usually
intentional marks
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that indicate that, in
the offender's mind,
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he is doing something
that has meaning.
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Law enforcement
investigated the possibility
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that Odinists were involved.
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I learned that there
are people from our area
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that are involved in this
Norse pagan Odinist religion
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that I never knew about.
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00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,448
This Odinist
movement in the United States
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is often made up
of young white men
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00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:09,453
from working class backgrounds.
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00:06:09,536 --> 00:06:10,871
These groups began
to proliferate
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in a sort of industrial
decline of the Midwest.
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Odin is the god of fury
and ecstasy and power,
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but they are refiguring
the figure of Odin
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00:06:23,633 --> 00:06:27,596
as representing this sort of
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00:06:27,679 --> 00:06:30,557
class disappointment
and class rage.
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00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:38,232
There were several
people living in the area
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that were allegedly
practicing Odinism.
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In fact, one of them was already
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on law enforcement's radar...
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a local man named Brad Holder.
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Abby was friends with his son.
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Brad Holder was posting
things on his social media
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that caused some concern.
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Soon after the
murders, Brad Holder posted
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00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:02,005
something where it said
something along the lines of,
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00:07:02,088 --> 00:07:04,049
"Friends help
friends move bodies."
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00:07:08,553 --> 00:07:11,681
Also, Holder's Facebook
page showed runes.
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He posted these images
of Odinist rituals,
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Odinist altars.
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He would make runic
symbols out of branches.
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And these sticks
that were on Abby
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looked like a marking
on a social media post
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where he had the
marking on his hand.
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Brad Holder had
also posted a picture
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of two girls that were
very similar in nature
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to the way we found
Abby and Libby.
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And he would sometimes
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do rituals with another
local, Patrick Westfall.
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My name is
Patrick Westfall.
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Brad Holder was in the
group that I was in
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out of Afghanistan.
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We got to know each
other quite well
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over, you know, our
time in the combat zone.
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00:08:03,942 --> 00:08:07,446
Patrick Westfall became a
person of interest because of
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his relationship
with Brad Holder.
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Part of what I reviewed was
a video of a pagan group
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doing a ritual in the woods.
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Brad Holder is on camera
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showing that he's
the one videotaping.
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That was just a
standard ensemble
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where people come together.
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You have your meat or
different other things
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that you can have
as an offering.
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'Cause we're nature
based... we love nature.
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Trees, you know, have
special meaning to us.
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If you remember,
Libby is located
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and moved next to this big tree.
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And I found it interesting
that they were all bringing
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their different
offerings to the tree.
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There's nothing that's
part of it that has
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anything to do with violence
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and human sacrifices
and killing.
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And, you know, there's
no initiation ritual
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where you have to go out
and stomp somebody out
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to be a practitioner.
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Law enforcement spent
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00:09:07,964 --> 00:09:10,842
dozens of hours
investigating these people,
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maybe hundreds of hours.
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But then there
was kind of a division
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between the members that
were investigating this,
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whether this was a
satanic type killing
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00:09:19,851 --> 00:09:23,647
or if it was just a murder
that looked that way.
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Brad Holder had a
really good alibi.
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Police had time cards and
also people placing him
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at work at the time
of the murders.
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I think it's a misconception
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that we did not
thoroughly investigate
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the Odinism connection.
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We did. We just were never able
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to establish any probable cause.
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No one could ever
prove Brad Holder
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and Patrick Westfall
were involved.
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We couldn't even
put them in Delphi.
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00:09:59,766 --> 00:10:03,353
I think many
in the investigation
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00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:05,397
believed that this kind of stuff
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only happens in the movies.
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00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:10,444
I can tell you from
other cases I've worked on,
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00:10:10,527 --> 00:10:13,905
officers aren't trained
in ritualistic crimes.
201
00:10:13,988 --> 00:10:18,326
There is absolutely
nothing in their training
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00:10:18,409 --> 00:10:21,412
that prepares them for
this type of crime scene.
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It was really hard
for me to understand
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00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:29,379
why they gave up on
this angle so quickly.
205
00:10:29,462 --> 00:10:32,716
It appears to me that
there was more evidence
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00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:35,594
on third party suspects
than on Richard Allen.
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00:10:37,929 --> 00:10:39,431
Here we go.
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00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,144
After that, I was all
about doing nothing but
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00:10:44,227 --> 00:10:47,022
looking for Odinism
and that angle.
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From a professional standpoint,
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00:10:48,481 --> 00:10:50,859
we were preparing
to go to battle.
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00:11:02,453 --> 00:11:05,207
We realized that none
of this information
213
00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:07,709
regarding the Odinists from
the police investigation
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00:11:07,792 --> 00:11:09,544
was offered up to the court.
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00:11:09,627 --> 00:11:11,671
And so we started
creating a memo
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00:11:11,754 --> 00:11:15,258
to get the judge to see
that Odinists may have been
217
00:11:15,341 --> 00:11:19,095
involved in this
crime and to allow us
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00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:20,847
to present that idea to a jury.
219
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:23,975
So we did a ton of our
own investigative work.
220
00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:28,146
For starters, you better go
to the scene of the crime.
221
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We've now, using
the GPS, gotten to this.
222
00:11:31,733 --> 00:11:33,109
She would have been here then.
223
00:11:33,192 --> 00:11:35,862
Libby was placed right here
224
00:11:35,945 --> 00:11:38,949
with her arm up
against the trunk
225
00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:41,701
and her head turned to the left
226
00:11:41,784 --> 00:11:43,912
and her feet coming
out this direction.
227
00:11:43,995 --> 00:11:46,957
And Abby would have
been right here
228
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,168
at about a 30-degree
angle to what Libby was.
229
00:11:51,502 --> 00:11:55,006
I spent 12-,
15-, 18-hour days,
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00:11:55,089 --> 00:11:58,510
seven days a week
working on the case.
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00:11:58,593 --> 00:12:00,137
I was sleeping on my couch.
232
00:12:00,220 --> 00:12:02,097
And there were...
you know, my clo...
233
00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:03,640
if you, like, looked
at this office,
234
00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:05,559
it was a complete
wreck most of the time.
235
00:12:05,642 --> 00:12:07,227
I hope my wife remembers me.
236
00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:09,771
I've gained a little weight.
237
00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:12,482
We mined all this information
regarding the Odinists
238
00:12:12,565 --> 00:12:14,609
from the police investigation,
239
00:12:14,692 --> 00:12:17,696
some of it from our own
follow-up investigation,
240
00:12:17,779 --> 00:12:19,531
to prove to the court
241
00:12:19,614 --> 00:12:22,868
that law enforcement
misled the judge.
242
00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:24,327
So it's almost like saying,
243
00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:26,580
"Judge, here's the
rest of the story.
244
00:12:26,663 --> 00:12:28,206
Here's what they
didn't tell you."
245
00:12:34,379 --> 00:12:36,673
Finally, we
finished getting
246
00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:40,010
that 136-page memo together.
247
00:12:40,093 --> 00:12:43,179
Sierra and Sarah have been
248
00:12:43,262 --> 00:12:46,683
unbelievably working
on this thing.
249
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:48,518
September 18, 2023.
250
00:12:48,601 --> 00:12:50,896
Now's the time to
hit the Send button.
251
00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:53,273
I'm just checking
one last thing.
252
00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:54,900
OK, Andy.
253
00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:55,901
What time is it?
254
00:12:55,984 --> 00:12:57,277
It's 2:06.
255
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,695
Here. Hit the button.
256
00:12:58,778 --> 00:12:59,988
You do it.
257
00:13:02,323 --> 00:13:07,287
All right, well, this
is for Richard Allen.
258
00:13:08,871 --> 00:13:10,957
All right.
259
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,084
Hope that gets him out.
260
00:13:16,754 --> 00:13:18,798
This
morning, a new twist
261
00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:20,675
in the Delphi double murders.
262
00:13:20,758 --> 00:13:25,722
Allen's attorneys filing a
136-page motion on Monday,
263
00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:28,141
where they claim the
girls were ritualistically
264
00:13:28,224 --> 00:13:31,645
sacrificed by members of
a pagan Norse religion
265
00:13:31,728 --> 00:13:33,813
called Odinism.
266
00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:36,900
It read like
a gripping novel
267
00:13:36,983 --> 00:13:39,527
of this Odinism conspiracy
268
00:13:39,610 --> 00:13:41,613
that sacrificed these
two young girls.
269
00:13:47,577 --> 00:13:50,788
It set the whole state
ablaze with people talking.
270
00:13:51,914 --> 00:13:53,375
It was quite a shock
271
00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:55,251
that somebody would
make that allegation.
272
00:13:57,378 --> 00:14:00,465
The media, the
YouTubers, social media,
273
00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:05,053
podcasts, they grabbed hold of
this idea and they ran with it.
274
00:14:05,136 --> 00:14:07,847
Today, McLeland
calling the entire memo
275
00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:10,558
"colorful, dramatic, and
highly unprofessional."
276
00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:11,893
So everybody online was like,
277
00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:15,772
were these girls
murdered as a sacrifice?
278
00:14:18,107 --> 00:14:20,276
And it was just, like,
rampant speculation.
279
00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:23,071
Is there some coverup going on
here or something happening?
280
00:14:23,154 --> 00:14:26,282
If true, the information
in these documents
281
00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:27,367
point the finger in
282
00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:29,577
a completely
different direction.
283
00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,038
But I think they're actually
on to something here.
284
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:37,585
Once that
memorandum came out,
285
00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:39,379
and I had people calling
me left and right asking
286
00:14:39,462 --> 00:14:42,382
why I'm all over
YouTube channels.
287
00:14:42,465 --> 00:14:43,550
Patrick Westfall.
288
00:14:43,633 --> 00:14:44,718
-Patrick Westfall.
-Patrick Westfall.
289
00:14:44,801 --> 00:14:46,845
It absolutely crushed me.
290
00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:49,097
That's not small change stuff.
291
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:52,392
This is a double homicide.
292
00:14:52,475 --> 00:14:55,520
It's worldwide watched,
followed event,
293
00:14:55,603 --> 00:14:59,566
and my name is slapped
all over this memorandum.
294
00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:04,571
Brad Holder was
posting on Facebook
295
00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:07,615
saying people are accusing
him of being Bridge Guy.
296
00:15:07,698 --> 00:15:10,535
He posted a video
on TikTok saying
297
00:15:10,618 --> 00:15:12,037
that he's not Bridge Guy.
298
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,830
You don't like my hat?
299
00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:15,999
You... you think I'm
the murderer 'cause...
300
00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,917
because I'm wearing
his hat, right?
301
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,171
It seemed like he was sick
of these online accusations.
302
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:23,965
No matter how big
of a dickhead I am,
303
00:15:24,048 --> 00:15:26,426
I didn't kill those girls.
304
00:15:26,509 --> 00:15:28,303
I'm tired
of hearing Odinism.
305
00:15:28,386 --> 00:15:31,514
I never have had
anything to do with it.
306
00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:33,475
I get that that's
an attorney's job
307
00:15:33,558 --> 00:15:35,602
is to create reasonable doubt.
308
00:15:35,685 --> 00:15:38,813
But man, they really ruined
a lot of things for me
309
00:15:38,896 --> 00:15:41,232
by doing it that way.
310
00:15:41,315 --> 00:15:43,902
The memo was well
within the boundaries of what
311
00:15:43,985 --> 00:15:47,363
a competent lawyer would
do to defend their client,
312
00:15:47,446 --> 00:15:50,533
but the reactions were
pretty overwhelming.
313
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:53,078
You have to go where the
investigation leads you.
314
00:15:53,161 --> 00:15:55,163
You have to do your job.
315
00:15:55,246 --> 00:15:56,748
And then just deal
with the consequences
316
00:15:56,831 --> 00:15:58,416
of whatever comes from that.
317
00:16:16,726 --> 00:16:19,020
As the trial in
this case got closer,
318
00:16:19,103 --> 00:16:22,148
we were awaiting the
judge's pre-trial rulings
319
00:16:22,231 --> 00:16:26,111
on our request to introduce
third party culpability.
320
00:16:26,194 --> 00:16:28,488
Until that happens,
we just have to keep
321
00:16:28,571 --> 00:16:30,532
working on the case
night and day and morning
322
00:16:30,615 --> 00:16:32,075
and noon and night.
323
00:16:32,158 --> 00:16:34,202
Law enforcement, they
have an infinite amount
324
00:16:34,285 --> 00:16:36,579
of resources to
investigate these crimes
325
00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,498
and to prop them
up in a courtroom.
326
00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:41,084
The government has a huge
advantage in that regard.
327
00:16:41,167 --> 00:16:42,544
We knew
that prosecutor
328
00:16:42,627 --> 00:16:44,754
was working as hard as us.
329
00:16:44,837 --> 00:16:45,964
There
definitely are days
330
00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:47,340
that you get
overwhelmed and think,
331
00:16:47,423 --> 00:16:48,550
I have so much to do.
332
00:16:48,633 --> 00:16:50,135
I don't know how I'm
going to do all this.
333
00:16:50,218 --> 00:16:52,345
Obviously, a lot of
sleepless nights,
334
00:16:52,428 --> 00:16:54,931
a lot of time away
from family and friends
335
00:16:55,014 --> 00:16:57,350
to put the work in that's
necessary for the case.
336
00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:58,935
It took a toll on Nick.
337
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:00,019
We watched him.
338
00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:03,148
He gave up a lot for this case.
339
00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:12,031
Judge Gull ruled that
the defense would not be
340
00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:15,034
allowed to raise the issue
of third party suspects,
341
00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:18,705
basically hampering the
defense's allegations
342
00:17:18,788 --> 00:17:22,584
of Odinism and human sacrifice.
343
00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:26,045
It was a one-, maybe a
two-page order saying that
344
00:17:26,128 --> 00:17:29,924
we could not present any
of that evidence at trial.
345
00:17:30,007 --> 00:17:31,801
She just
flat out denied it,
346
00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:34,554
essentially saying
to Rick Allen that,
347
00:17:34,637 --> 00:17:36,264
you know, if you think
you're going to get away with
348
00:17:36,347 --> 00:17:38,433
pointing fingers at these
other people, you know,
349
00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:39,642
you got another thing coming.
350
00:17:43,145 --> 00:17:45,899
The bottom line is
there was no connection,
351
00:17:45,982 --> 00:17:50,320
no direct criminal nexus
in that group of people
352
00:17:50,403 --> 00:17:51,821
that, in my opinion,
353
00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:54,365
the defense came out
and falsely accused.
354
00:17:55,658 --> 00:17:56,910
The judge's ruling was
355
00:17:56,993 --> 00:17:59,162
a devastating blow
to the defense.
356
00:18:00,371 --> 00:18:01,789
My professional opinion is
357
00:18:01,872 --> 00:18:03,458
that to make this
information public,
358
00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:05,210
it was displeasing to the court.
359
00:18:05,293 --> 00:18:07,086
And in hindsight, you
know, it probably wasn't
360
00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:10,339
the best way to garner
judicial support.
361
00:18:12,883 --> 00:18:15,845
Whether or not the
Odinists are responsible
362
00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:17,639
for the death of these girls,
363
00:18:17,722 --> 00:18:19,724
I don't really have a
personal opinion about that.
364
00:18:19,807 --> 00:18:21,935
But what I do know
for certain is,
365
00:18:22,018 --> 00:18:24,354
this ruling stripped
Rick Allen of the ability
366
00:18:24,437 --> 00:18:27,065
to defend himself.
367
00:18:27,148 --> 00:18:29,108
Did it change
our strategy?
368
00:18:29,191 --> 00:18:33,154
I mean, the strategy went
from third party suspect
369
00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:34,781
to just plain old
reasonable doubt.
370
00:18:34,864 --> 00:18:36,991
There's reasonable doubt here.
371
00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:39,702
We really believed that
we were going to win.
372
00:18:39,785 --> 00:18:41,537
We were going to be able
to get Richard out of this
373
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:42,830
in spite of that ruling.
374
00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:50,046
Well before the
trial, people took sides.
375
00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:52,298
There were people who
were pro Richard Allen
376
00:18:52,381 --> 00:18:53,800
or against Richard Allen.
377
00:18:53,883 --> 00:18:56,636
Right here, a protest
is gearing up.
378
00:18:56,719 --> 00:18:58,513
"We love you, Rick Allen."
379
00:18:58,596 --> 00:19:00,431
We are pro prosecution here.
380
00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:01,599
There's no evidence connecting
381
00:19:01,682 --> 00:19:02,600
Richard to the crime.
382
00:19:02,683 --> 00:19:04,143
I cannot declare
383
00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:06,563
that Richard Allen
is totally innocent.
384
00:19:06,646 --> 00:19:09,107
I really had a fear that
we're not going to be able
385
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:11,442
to get a jury pool that
hasn't formed an opinion
386
00:19:11,525 --> 00:19:12,986
so that we could
have a fair trial,
387
00:19:13,069 --> 00:19:14,862
not only for the state,
but for Richard Allen.
388
00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:22,412
The trial for the
man accused of killing
389
00:19:22,495 --> 00:19:25,081
Abby Williams and Libby
German begins tomorrow.
390
00:19:26,666 --> 00:19:30,962
There was an influx of
media here in Delphi.
391
00:19:31,045 --> 00:19:33,172
A lot of people
certainly got tired
392
00:19:33,255 --> 00:19:35,675
of microphones in the face.
393
00:19:35,758 --> 00:19:38,469
The judge said she's not
televising the trial.
394
00:19:42,431 --> 00:19:44,976
So people showed
up hoping to hear
395
00:19:45,059 --> 00:19:46,811
the evidence against
Richard Allen.
396
00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:48,479
I'm from Atlanta, Georgia.
397
00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:50,690
I was really concerned
about the process
398
00:19:50,773 --> 00:19:52,567
and whether or not a fair
trial was going to happen.
399
00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:55,278
I have spent every day
for almost four years
400
00:19:55,361 --> 00:19:56,696
thinking about this case.
401
00:19:56,779 --> 00:19:59,949
I need to know the
evidence for myself.
402
00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:03,286
It was almost
like a spectacle.
403
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:06,164
A woman was saying she
flew in from Seattle
404
00:20:06,247 --> 00:20:07,874
and brought her kids with her
405
00:20:07,957 --> 00:20:09,876
because they wanted
to walk the trail
406
00:20:09,959 --> 00:20:12,795
and... like it was a
tourist attraction.
407
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:14,464
So the branch went
from here to here.
408
00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:16,716
It was this end where
they were abducted.
409
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,926
Only 24 people from the public
410
00:20:19,009 --> 00:20:21,929
were allowed in each day,
so people started lining up
411
00:20:22,012 --> 00:20:24,724
the night before, hoping
to be one of the first
412
00:20:24,807 --> 00:20:26,851
24 people to get in.
413
00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,812
People were paying people
to sit in line for them.
414
00:20:31,564 --> 00:20:35,651
At what point does people's
interest in justice
415
00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:40,031
become just a bloodlust
for the gruesome details?
416
00:20:40,114 --> 00:20:42,659
It's free
entertainment to them.
417
00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:47,872
People tend to forget that
the subjects of the story
418
00:20:47,955 --> 00:20:50,875
are real people.
419
00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:52,919
It's been eight
years of building up
420
00:20:53,002 --> 00:20:55,046
and waiting and anticipation.
421
00:20:55,129 --> 00:20:58,007
I told Libby I would be
there for every second.
422
00:20:58,090 --> 00:21:00,551
I was there for the
entire trial, every day.
423
00:21:00,634 --> 00:21:02,053
I did that for her.
424
00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:07,266
It was the least I could do.
425
00:21:14,857 --> 00:21:20,154
So as a memorial to Libby,
I decided to do this tattoo.
426
00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:25,827
These coordinates here
are where she is buried.
427
00:21:25,910 --> 00:21:29,330
I've got a music note here.
428
00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,416
She was a painter.
429
00:21:31,499 --> 00:21:34,544
Got more music.
430
00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:39,549
This here was for
Mother's Day of 2016.
431
00:21:39,632 --> 00:21:42,719
Libby gave me a
pendant that said Mom.
432
00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:45,471
I put all four of my
girls' birthstones,
433
00:21:45,554 --> 00:21:47,640
and it says Libby
instead of Mom.
434
00:21:57,066 --> 00:21:59,068
It's taken 7 1/2 years
435
00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:00,903
to get to the
official day of trial.
436
00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:03,656
People I spoke to say they
just want this to be over
437
00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:06,576
so the entire
community can heal.
438
00:22:06,659 --> 00:22:09,537
It was definitely
somber and kind of weird
439
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:12,498
that finally the time had
arrived for the trial.
440
00:22:12,581 --> 00:22:15,334
Abby and Libby's families,
they say they won't rest
441
00:22:15,417 --> 00:22:16,878
until there's a conviction.
442
00:22:20,381 --> 00:22:22,258
We sat through
court every day.
443
00:22:22,341 --> 00:22:24,469
We owed that to Abby and Libby.
444
00:22:24,552 --> 00:22:27,096
We owed it to the
prosecution team.
445
00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:28,848
You know, we were
there to support them.
446
00:22:30,933 --> 00:22:32,101
The strongest arguments
447
00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:34,353
that were presented at
trial by the prosecution
448
00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:36,522
I think you can break
into a few groups.
449
00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:41,194
The timeline... it
was Richard Allen
450
00:22:41,277 --> 00:22:45,031
on the trail that day at
the time of the murders.
451
00:22:46,574 --> 00:22:49,076
The bullet... could
they link the bullet
452
00:22:49,159 --> 00:22:51,078
they had discovered
at the crime scene
453
00:22:51,161 --> 00:22:52,413
to Richard Allen?
454
00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,374
And then the confessions
where he says that
455
00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:57,293
he did it... can
you believe them?
456
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,259
When Richard Allen
first spoke to the police
457
00:23:05,342 --> 00:23:08,012
back in 2017, he
puts himself squarely
458
00:23:08,095 --> 00:23:10,014
in the middle of the crime scene
459
00:23:10,097 --> 00:23:12,141
at the time the crime
was being committed,
460
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:13,893
which investigators
narrowed down
461
00:23:13,976 --> 00:23:18,314
to roughly a 2-hour window
between 2:13 and 4:00 PM.
462
00:23:18,397 --> 00:23:20,107
Richard Allen
says he was there
463
00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:22,151
1:30 to 3:30.
464
00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:23,277
Five years later,
465
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,404
on October 13, 2022,
466
00:23:25,487 --> 00:23:26,989
when he's being interrogated by
467
00:23:27,072 --> 00:23:29,492
Carroll County Chief
Investigator Steve Mullen,
468
00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:32,328
Richard Allen gives
a different timeline.
469
00:23:38,959 --> 00:23:40,127
At 2:13 when
470
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:43,005
the famous video is taken,
471
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:45,091
Richard wasn't there.
472
00:23:45,174 --> 00:23:48,010
He left the trails about 1:30.
473
00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:49,387
And that's, you know...
474
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:50,680
that's what his...
475
00:23:50,763 --> 00:23:52,431
what he told police.
476
00:23:52,514 --> 00:23:54,016
The defense argued that
477
00:23:54,099 --> 00:23:55,893
this report was unreliable
478
00:23:55,976 --> 00:23:58,771
because the officer didn't
record the interview.
479
00:23:58,854 --> 00:24:01,315
He did not have it recorded.
480
00:24:01,398 --> 00:24:02,733
We didn't see his notes.
481
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:05,778
The prosecution argues
482
00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:07,989
the 1:30 to 3:30 timeline
483
00:24:08,072 --> 00:24:09,949
is correct because police say
484
00:24:10,032 --> 00:24:12,159
they see his car at 1:27.
485
00:24:12,242 --> 00:24:14,328
The Carroll County
prosecutor placing a car
486
00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:16,205
that he says matches
Richard Allen's
487
00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:17,665
near the Monon High Bridge
488
00:24:17,748 --> 00:24:19,875
between the time frame
of 1:30 and 3:30,
489
00:24:19,958 --> 00:24:22,420
which is what he originally
said in his police interviews.
490
00:24:22,503 --> 00:24:24,088
I've looked at those videos.
491
00:24:24,171 --> 00:24:26,424
The distance from the
camera to the road,
492
00:24:26,507 --> 00:24:28,134
the fact that it's moving,
493
00:24:28,217 --> 00:24:32,555
it's super hard to
identify a make or a model.
494
00:24:32,638 --> 00:24:35,016
I just don't think that
you can honestly say that
495
00:24:35,099 --> 00:24:36,976
that is Richard Allen's car.
496
00:24:40,729 --> 00:24:43,441
Today, the focus is
on an unspent bullet.
497
00:24:43,524 --> 00:24:45,443
The only piece
of physical evidence
498
00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:49,155
the state had was this
unspent cartridge or bullet.
499
00:24:49,238 --> 00:24:51,907
There was no other
forensic evidence
500
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:53,492
tying him to this crime.
501
00:24:53,575 --> 00:24:57,496
So the jurors were
extremely attentive.
502
00:24:57,579 --> 00:24:58,539
They were tuned in.
503
00:24:58,622 --> 00:24:59,540
They were paying attention.
504
00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:02,043
They were, you know, nodding.
505
00:25:02,126 --> 00:25:06,672
The police and
prosecutor are saying that
506
00:25:06,755 --> 00:25:09,800
Richard Allen had his gun
out, and he pulls it back
507
00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:11,761
as, like, an
intimidation method.
508
00:25:11,844 --> 00:25:15,681
So when you do that, sometimes
an unspent round will pop out.
509
00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:29,403
She
testified for hours
510
00:25:29,486 --> 00:25:31,781
as to how she came
to that conclusion.
511
00:25:31,864 --> 00:25:34,992
She said it primarily came
from markings left behind
512
00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,870
that are unique to Allen's gun.
513
00:25:37,953 --> 00:25:39,205
Whether you want
to believe the bullet was
514
00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:40,998
a direct match or a direct tie,
515
00:25:41,081 --> 00:25:43,167
that was heavily
debated in court.
516
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:45,336
But there was forensic evidence
517
00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:47,546
that proved that it
did come from his gun.
518
00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:01,936
That discipline is far
from an exact science,
519
00:26:02,019 --> 00:26:05,606
and really relying on
that uncycled round
520
00:26:05,689 --> 00:26:08,109
to convict this guy
would have been reckless.
521
00:26:08,192 --> 00:26:10,945
If that's the best they have
to do, they're in trouble.
522
00:26:11,028 --> 00:26:13,781
This magic bullet to
me was shaky ground.
523
00:26:24,625 --> 00:26:25,876
It is day 11
524
00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:27,420
of the Delphi
double murder trial.
525
00:26:27,503 --> 00:26:30,589
And today, the jury heard from
the former lead psychologist
526
00:26:30,672 --> 00:26:32,550
at Westville
Correctional Facility.
527
00:26:32,633 --> 00:26:34,552
Dr. Monica Wala
testified to hearing
528
00:26:34,635 --> 00:26:36,303
a number of alleged
verbal confessions
529
00:26:36,386 --> 00:26:38,431
from Allen, including
where he confessed
530
00:26:38,514 --> 00:26:40,057
to killing Abby and Libby,
531
00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:42,601
adding he was sorry
for what he did.
532
00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:44,645
Allen shared a
timeline with Dr. Wala
533
00:26:44,728 --> 00:26:47,398
of what happened on
February 13th of 2017,
534
00:26:47,481 --> 00:26:49,316
the day the girls
were last seen alive.
535
00:26:51,485 --> 00:26:55,614
The state heavily relied on
this confession at trial.
536
00:26:55,697 --> 00:26:59,118
This is a very
convincing confession
537
00:26:59,201 --> 00:27:00,828
because of the detail.
538
00:27:00,911 --> 00:27:03,414
This confession had
details that allegedly
539
00:27:03,497 --> 00:27:05,041
only the killer would know.
540
00:27:05,124 --> 00:27:06,876
Richard Allen
allegedly said that
541
00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:09,086
he left his mother's
house, and on the way home,
542
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:11,380
he stopped to get
a six-pack of beer,
543
00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:12,715
drank three at home,
544
00:27:12,798 --> 00:27:15,092
and then headed out to
the trails and bundled up.
545
00:27:17,177 --> 00:27:19,889
While he was on the trail,
he saw Abby and Libby
546
00:27:19,972 --> 00:27:21,807
and eventually followed
them onto the bridge,
547
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:23,726
where he encountered them
548
00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:26,395
and then took them
down the hill.
549
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:28,439
And he said in his
confession to her,
550
00:27:28,522 --> 00:27:31,150
his intention was
sexual in nature
551
00:27:31,233 --> 00:27:32,902
and wanted to rape them.
552
00:27:32,985 --> 00:27:36,530
And he saw a van arriving
at the end of this very long
553
00:27:36,613 --> 00:27:39,950
private driveway, which
caused him to cross over
554
00:27:40,033 --> 00:27:41,327
to the north side of the creek,
555
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:43,704
where eventually the
girls' bodies were found.
556
00:27:45,706 --> 00:27:47,124
Wala's
testimony was questioned
557
00:27:47,207 --> 00:27:48,626
by defense attorney Brad Rozzi.
558
00:27:50,544 --> 00:27:53,255
Dr. Wala reported that
Rick said many things to her
559
00:27:53,338 --> 00:27:54,882
that were incriminating.
560
00:27:54,965 --> 00:27:57,051
You know, and I'm not
doing the math technically,
561
00:27:57,134 --> 00:27:59,428
but I would say
98% of those things
562
00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:02,056
were generic confessions
and at a time
563
00:28:02,139 --> 00:28:03,766
when even she acknowledged that
564
00:28:03,849 --> 00:28:06,143
he was suffering from
a state of psychosis.
565
00:28:15,277 --> 00:28:16,570
She
admitted on the stand
566
00:28:16,653 --> 00:28:18,906
to using a work computer
to search for information
567
00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:20,658
on people involved in the case,
568
00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:23,494
information that the
public would not know.
569
00:28:23,577 --> 00:28:25,079
It was revealed that
she was interested
570
00:28:25,162 --> 00:28:26,956
in the Delphi case even before
571
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:28,374
Richard Allen was arrested.
572
00:28:28,457 --> 00:28:31,669
She joined Facebook
groups in 2021.
573
00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:34,630
And also, she
stopped by the trail
574
00:28:34,713 --> 00:28:37,758
before Rick was arrested
to get more intelligence
575
00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:39,801
about where this all happened.
576
00:28:41,803 --> 00:28:43,722
This person
had no business,
577
00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:46,851
no business being in Rick
Allen's world at all.
578
00:28:46,934 --> 00:28:48,978
The idea that
a van was involved
579
00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:53,941
had probably been shared on
social media dozens of times
580
00:28:54,024 --> 00:28:55,693
throughout the
five-year investigation.
581
00:28:55,776 --> 00:28:58,737
It was not information
that was really new.
582
00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:02,116
The state
says that Dr. Wala
583
00:29:02,199 --> 00:29:05,327
accurately reported
what Mr. Allen said.
584
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:08,163
The defense says Dr. Wala's
reports were tainted
585
00:29:08,246 --> 00:29:10,791
by her outside
knowledge of the case,
586
00:29:10,874 --> 00:29:13,460
and also pointed out
that about the time
587
00:29:13,543 --> 00:29:15,588
Richard Allen
started confessing,
588
00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,382
he was losing
touch with reality.
589
00:29:22,886 --> 00:29:25,389
We were hoping
to get the jury's mind
590
00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:27,558
to at least consider
that it's possible
591
00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:30,352
that a man who "confessed"
is actually innocent.
592
00:29:30,435 --> 00:29:33,063
The jury is going to
have to weigh the confessions
593
00:29:33,146 --> 00:29:35,524
that Richard Allen
made while behind bars,
594
00:29:35,607 --> 00:29:38,652
but the defense says those
confessions are false.
595
00:29:44,241 --> 00:29:46,410
Right now, closing
arguments are underway
596
00:29:46,493 --> 00:29:49,038
in the Delphi
double murder trial.
597
00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:50,664
The prosecutor,
Nick McLeland,
598
00:29:50,747 --> 00:29:53,542
in his closing argument,
made a very important point.
599
00:29:53,625 --> 00:29:55,878
Libby wanted to work
in law enforcement.
600
00:29:55,961 --> 00:29:59,048
She wanted to solve crimes.
601
00:29:59,131 --> 00:30:02,885
In a very real way, she
did solve this crime.
602
00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,595
Because she took that video,
603
00:30:04,678 --> 00:30:08,015
she captured the image
of her own murderer.
604
00:30:08,098 --> 00:30:11,810
Had it not been for that, had
it not been for the voice,
605
00:30:11,893 --> 00:30:13,812
Richard Allen might
never have been caught.
606
00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:15,230
During
the prosecution's
607
00:30:15,313 --> 00:30:17,358
closing arguments,
they said Bridge Guy
608
00:30:17,441 --> 00:30:18,901
was Richard Allen
and walked through
609
00:30:18,984 --> 00:30:22,071
a number of reasons
why they believed that.
610
00:30:22,154 --> 00:30:25,115
The state is officially done
with their closing arguments.
611
00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:26,533
Next will be the defense.
612
00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:33,499
In this day and age,
it's really hard for me
613
00:30:33,582 --> 00:30:35,668
to accept the fact that
there is not really
614
00:30:35,751 --> 00:30:38,253
one iota of forensic evidence
615
00:30:38,336 --> 00:30:40,965
that connects Richard
Allen to this crime scene
616
00:30:41,048 --> 00:30:42,800
or to the death
of these two girls
617
00:30:42,883 --> 00:30:46,220
and how there couldn't be
some forensic DNA evidence
618
00:30:46,303 --> 00:30:48,013
associated with Richard Allen,
619
00:30:48,096 --> 00:30:50,307
except for the fact that
620
00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:51,975
Richard Allen didn't
commit this crime.
621
00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:58,273
The fate of the
man accused of killing
622
00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:01,902
Delphi teens Abby Williams
and Libby German in 2017
623
00:31:01,985 --> 00:31:04,321
is now in the hands of the jury.
624
00:31:05,906 --> 00:31:07,616
I felt
pretty positive that
625
00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:09,618
they're going to make
the right decision,
626
00:31:09,701 --> 00:31:12,538
because reasonable doubt was
written all over the place.
627
00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:16,959
I said, you know what?
628
00:31:17,042 --> 00:31:18,168
We can't do anything.
629
00:31:18,251 --> 00:31:19,795
Turn it over to God.
630
00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:22,840
You're at the mercy of
12 people that I don't know,
631
00:31:22,923 --> 00:31:24,675
and they're making
the decision on
632
00:31:24,758 --> 00:31:27,552
not only Richard Allen's
fate, but ours as well.
633
00:31:28,637 --> 00:31:31,557
Those four days that
we were waiting,
634
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,436
the jury was deliberating,
were excruciating.
635
00:31:41,066 --> 00:31:44,820
Eight years that I've lost
636
00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:50,242
just waiting for
something, anything.
637
00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:57,332
I'll not get that time back.
638
00:31:58,834 --> 00:32:01,628
It still feels much like it did
639
00:32:01,711 --> 00:32:03,005
the first day the
girls were gone.
640
00:32:14,474 --> 00:32:17,895
Doing this park in
honor of the girls
641
00:32:17,978 --> 00:32:20,105
ensures that they'll
never be forgotten.
642
00:32:22,983 --> 00:32:28,697
Libby's cousins and
our kids, our family,
643
00:32:28,780 --> 00:32:32,534
the little ones that
Abby never got to meet,
644
00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:35,245
they all get to play here.
645
00:32:43,295 --> 00:32:45,214
It doesn't make
it hurt any less,
646
00:32:45,297 --> 00:32:48,675
but it sure does feel good
to come out here and see it,
647
00:32:48,758 --> 00:32:51,720
and to be here and to
give people a place to go.
648
00:32:51,803 --> 00:32:54,473
Just run around and be kids.
649
00:32:54,556 --> 00:32:57,810
Do what the girls did.
650
00:32:57,893 --> 00:32:58,811
Healing?
651
00:32:58,894 --> 00:33:00,229
Not... not yet.
652
00:33:00,312 --> 00:33:06,527
That's... that's a
work in progress.
653
00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,621
Jurors preparing for their
fourth day of deliberations
654
00:33:17,704 --> 00:33:19,832
after working through
part of the weekend.
655
00:33:19,915 --> 00:33:22,292
This was the first
time in two years
656
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,837
that we all actually
had some hope.
657
00:33:26,421 --> 00:33:29,383
On my phone
conversations with Ricky,
658
00:33:29,466 --> 00:33:31,218
I heard some joy in his voice.
659
00:33:34,137 --> 00:33:35,889
And I had some, too.
660
00:33:37,182 --> 00:33:40,811
Waiting for the
verdict is a lot of anxiety.
661
00:33:40,894 --> 00:33:42,479
You're waiting and
you're waiting.
662
00:33:42,562 --> 00:33:44,273
It's always hard
waiting for the jury
663
00:33:44,356 --> 00:33:45,524
to come back because
you're just wondering,
664
00:33:45,607 --> 00:33:46,567
what are they doing?
665
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:47,734
What are they thinking?
666
00:34:28,817 --> 00:34:32,321
Nobody made a sound
when that jury came in.
667
00:34:32,404 --> 00:34:36,074
We didn't know which
way it was going to go.
668
00:34:36,157 --> 00:34:38,577
As the jurors walked
out, I looked at their faces.
669
00:34:38,660 --> 00:34:40,120
I didn't see any of the jurors
670
00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:42,331
making eye contact
with Richard Allen.
671
00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:44,917
And I remember when the
verdict was announced,
672
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,753
somebody off to my left gasped.
673
00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:54,885
Guilty on all counts.
674
00:34:54,968 --> 00:34:57,429
More than 7 1/2 years
after the murders
675
00:34:57,512 --> 00:35:00,098
of Delphi teens Abby
Williams and Libby German,
676
00:35:00,181 --> 00:35:01,725
a jury today said
677
00:35:01,808 --> 00:35:05,145
Richard Allen is
guilty of the crimes.
678
00:35:05,228 --> 00:35:06,271
Guilty!
679
00:35:08,565 --> 00:35:10,817
Yeah, yeah!
680
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,529
Guilty. Guilty!
681
00:35:14,612 --> 00:35:19,826
To hear the guilty verdict
was kind of a relief.
682
00:35:19,909 --> 00:35:22,371
-Yes!
-Guilty!
683
00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:25,206
I'm grateful that we
got justice when we did.
684
00:35:26,833 --> 00:35:29,169
Richard Allen's wife,
Kathy, could not even stand
685
00:35:29,252 --> 00:35:30,671
after the verdict was read,
686
00:35:30,754 --> 00:35:33,173
and she actually had to
be assisted to her feet.
687
00:35:35,216 --> 00:35:41,556
When I heard those words,
guilty, it was shock.
688
00:35:43,224 --> 00:35:45,226
Ricky looked confused.
689
00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:52,609
And I wanted to stand
there and scream for him.
690
00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:43,243
The prosecution said,
691
00:36:43,326 --> 00:36:47,623
we know this Bridge
Guy took the girls.
692
00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:51,627
And they proved Richard
Allen was Bridge Guy.
693
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:55,380
The people that matter
were those 12 jurors.
694
00:36:55,463 --> 00:36:57,799
And we have a system of justice
that allows them to decide
695
00:36:57,882 --> 00:36:59,760
the fate of a human being.
696
00:36:59,843 --> 00:37:01,720
Do you feel Richard
Allen had a fair trial?
697
00:37:01,803 --> 00:37:03,930
Yes.
698
00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:10,020
Richard
Allen sentenced to
699
00:37:10,103 --> 00:37:13,148
the maximum 130 years in prison.
700
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:14,608
I'd be remiss if I didn't thank
701
00:37:14,691 --> 00:37:15,942
Abby and Libby themselves.
702
00:37:16,025 --> 00:37:18,904
Without the efforts from
those two little girls,
703
00:37:18,987 --> 00:37:21,281
we wouldn't be here today.
704
00:37:21,364 --> 00:37:23,784
So, Abby and Libby, thank you.
705
00:37:23,867 --> 00:37:24,910
At this point, we don't believe
706
00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:26,578
any other actors are involved.
707
00:37:26,661 --> 00:37:28,747
If evidence comes out in
the future to support that,
708
00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:30,498
we'll obviously
investigate that.
709
00:37:32,625 --> 00:37:33,919
There are two
sides to this case...
710
00:37:34,002 --> 00:37:36,838
the people who think
he was justly convicted
711
00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:39,716
and people who think he
was wrongly convicted.
712
00:37:39,799 --> 00:37:42,260
I do believe that he is
guilty of this crime.
713
00:37:44,554 --> 00:37:46,473
I think that Carroll
County seems very divided
714
00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:48,225
in terms of whether they believe
715
00:37:48,308 --> 00:37:50,435
Richard Allen is guilty or not.
716
00:37:51,895 --> 00:37:53,105
I believe that
717
00:37:53,188 --> 00:37:56,316
Richard Allen is
an innocent man.
718
00:37:56,399 --> 00:38:01,488
I have no idea who did this,
and I think that person is
719
00:38:01,571 --> 00:38:04,616
still here, is still out here.
720
00:38:04,699 --> 00:38:08,036
Richard Allen is guilty
and always will be.
721
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,372
I think most people are
722
00:38:10,455 --> 00:38:13,458
somewhat satisfied that
justice has been served.
723
00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:16,920
I think there's a
lot of people out there
724
00:38:17,003 --> 00:38:21,133
that will go to their grave
trying to help Richard Allen.
725
00:38:21,216 --> 00:38:23,301
And it's not just
about Richard Allen.
726
00:38:23,384 --> 00:38:27,431
If they can do it to one man,
they can do it to any of us.
727
00:38:27,514 --> 00:38:29,641
Lawyers are
superstitious in nature.
728
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:34,354
So to state that we
have a strong appeal
729
00:38:34,437 --> 00:38:37,023
makes me nervous.
730
00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:38,483
But we have a strong appeal.
731
00:38:38,566 --> 00:38:40,569
I know there's appeals
that are coming,
732
00:38:40,652 --> 00:38:43,905
but the process worked.
733
00:38:46,449 --> 00:38:49,411
I'm very
hopeful for an appeal.
734
00:38:49,494 --> 00:38:50,871
His clothes are still ready.
735
00:38:50,954 --> 00:38:52,622
They're not going anywhere.
736
00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:55,709
I've got everything ready
for him to come home,
737
00:38:55,792 --> 00:38:58,462
all of his favorite books.
738
00:38:58,545 --> 00:39:02,257
It was definitely our
dream to grow old together,
739
00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:05,010
and it still is.
740
00:39:05,093 --> 00:39:07,512
I'm looking forward to that.
741
00:39:07,595 --> 00:39:09,514
I'm not giving up.
742
00:39:11,015 --> 00:39:13,643
How about we start to heal now?
743
00:39:13,726 --> 00:39:15,437
How about we hit
that reset button
744
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,147
and understand that justice
in this country was served?
745
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:18,648
And if you don't like
justice in this country,
746
00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:21,860
go to another one.
747
00:39:21,943 --> 00:39:23,028
Let's heal.
748
00:39:24,946 --> 00:39:27,657
You think hearing
guilty is going to be enough,
749
00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:32,037
and you think the sentencing
is going to be enough,
750
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,914
and it's just not true.
751
00:39:33,997 --> 00:39:35,582
It's just not that way.
752
00:39:37,876 --> 00:39:39,377
This doesn't bring her back.
753
00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:41,254
The girls are still gone.
754
00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:48,053
I think the conviction
was, in a sense,
755
00:39:48,136 --> 00:39:50,138
a scab over the wound,
756
00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:51,973
but the scar is always
going to be there.
757
00:39:57,103 --> 00:39:59,147
Delphi is a small town.
758
00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:00,649
They were shaken.
759
00:40:00,732 --> 00:40:04,486
People didn't lock their
doors, lock up their cars.
760
00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:06,363
And everybody does now.
761
00:40:06,446 --> 00:40:10,033
There is still some
wariness that did not exist,
762
00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:11,701
I would say, before that time.
763
00:40:11,784 --> 00:40:13,620
I miss what it was before.
764
00:40:13,703 --> 00:40:15,288
Yeah, definitely.
765
00:40:15,371 --> 00:40:18,500
Just the safe, small
town feeling that it had.
766
00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:19,626
Yeah.
767
00:40:19,709 --> 00:40:21,545
When it wasn't the
Delphi murders,
768
00:40:21,628 --> 00:40:23,296
when it was just
Delphi, Indiana.
769
00:40:23,379 --> 00:40:25,590
Yeah, definitely.
770
00:40:25,673 --> 00:40:27,133
The girls are gone,
771
00:40:27,216 --> 00:40:28,510
but they didn't take away
772
00:40:28,593 --> 00:40:30,762
everything beautiful
here in Delphi.
773
00:40:30,845 --> 00:40:32,973
We're going to make
the best of what we have
774
00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:34,599
with the time that we have.
775
00:40:34,682 --> 00:40:36,685
We want to make up to the
kids and the grandkids
776
00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:40,146
and go on
777
00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:44,776
and live life like
it used to be.
778
00:40:44,859 --> 00:40:46,027
My name is Hayden.
779
00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:47,278
I'm 16.
780
00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:53,577
We lost somebody who would
have changed the world.
781
00:40:53,660 --> 00:40:55,620
I try to be passionate
about everything
782
00:40:55,703 --> 00:40:58,540
that I do, too, because
that's the way she was.
783
00:40:58,623 --> 00:41:02,960
And it's all I can do
is do what she couldn't.
784
00:41:04,754 --> 00:41:07,007
Libby could have
done so many things.
785
00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:09,593
She had so many plans.
786
00:41:09,676 --> 00:41:11,761
We lost a lot of
sunshine without her.
787
00:41:15,098 --> 00:41:18,768
It's definitely hard
not having Libby here
788
00:41:18,851 --> 00:41:21,229
for milestones in my life.
789
00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:24,441
But it hurts even more
not being there for hers
790
00:41:24,524 --> 00:41:27,736
and knowing that I'll never
get to go to her wedding
791
00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:31,281
or I'll never get to
meet her children.
792
00:41:31,364 --> 00:41:33,074
They would
both, I think,
793
00:41:33,157 --> 00:41:37,913
be on a very successful,
happy path right now.
794
00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:39,205
I feel
like both of them
795
00:41:39,288 --> 00:41:40,999
would be making
differences in the world
796
00:41:41,082 --> 00:41:43,501
in their own little perky ways.
797
00:41:43,584 --> 00:41:44,669
We're like Gina and Pam.
798
00:41:44,752 --> 00:41:45,879
Always.
799
00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:47,380
-I'm her bestie, I am.
-She is.
800
00:41:47,463 --> 00:41:48,923
-We gonna pose for this cam.
-Cheese.
801
00:41:49,006 --> 00:41:50,175
We don't want your man.
61132
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