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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:03:18,396 --> 00:03:20,900 I didn't know it was so bad. 2 00:03:21,024 --> 00:03:26,826 A couple of incendiaries, these old buildings go up like Cellophane. 3 00:03:26,947 --> 00:03:30,410 A wall separates the old section of Nuremberg from the new. 4 00:03:30,533 --> 00:03:34,840 It goes back to... How far does it go back, Schmidt? 5 00:03:34,955 --> 00:03:37,458 - 1219, sir. - 1219. 6 00:03:40,001 --> 00:03:43,714 This is where the Nazi party held their rallies, isn't it? 7 00:03:43,838 --> 00:03:48,098 They all came here. Hitler, Goebbels, the whole crew. 8 00:03:48,218 --> 00:03:50,982 Thousands of them, from all over Germany. 9 00:03:58,937 --> 00:04:01,654 Does he have to blow that damn horn so much? 10 00:04:01,773 --> 00:04:06,329 It's not necessary to blow the horn so much, Schmidt. 11 00:04:17,163 --> 00:04:19,334 - You both know your duties? - Ja. 12 00:04:19,457 --> 00:04:22,672 Well, here we are. A little bit of old Germany. 13 00:04:22,794 --> 00:04:26,721 - Senator Burkette. - Captain Byers, this is Judge Haywood. 14 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:29,260 - Byers here will be your aide. - My what? 15 00:04:29,384 --> 00:04:33,062 Clerk, general guide, liaison. Any capacity you wish to use me. 16 00:04:33,179 --> 00:04:35,600 This will be your staff, Mr and Mrs Halbestadt. 17 00:04:35,724 --> 00:04:37,943 - Hello. - Good afternoon. 18 00:04:38,059 --> 00:04:40,111 Good afternoon, Your Honour. 19 00:04:40,228 --> 00:04:42,732 - Welcome. - You've met your driver, Schmidt. 20 00:04:42,856 --> 00:04:45,620 I'm at your service any time you need me. Day or night. 21 00:04:45,734 --> 00:04:47,027 Thanks. 22 00:04:47,152 --> 00:04:49,738 Let's show him around the rest of the place. Dan. 23 00:04:49,863 --> 00:04:52,331 We're in the reception room. 24 00:04:53,742 --> 00:04:56,839 Living room. The study is in there. 25 00:04:56,953 --> 00:05:02,007 There are two bedrooms on this floor, three upstairs. 26 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:05,922 The furniture is part antique, part US army. 27 00:05:10,091 --> 00:05:14,980 The piano is showing signs of wear and tear, but it's a genuine Bechstein. 28 00:05:15,096 --> 00:05:18,062 - Quite a view, isn't it, sir? - Yes. 29 00:05:19,267 --> 00:05:20,774 Uh... 30 00:05:20,894 --> 00:05:23,824 Senator, I really, really don't need all this. 31 00:05:23,939 --> 00:05:27,153 When the US government does something, it does it right. 32 00:05:27,275 --> 00:05:30,787 - Who used to live here? - An important Nazi general and his wife. 33 00:05:30,904 --> 00:05:33,668 Is there anything else Judge Haywood ought to know? 34 00:05:33,782 --> 00:05:36,961 - Sir, any questions? - Yes, yes. 35 00:05:38,036 --> 00:05:40,255 - You're West Point, aren't you? - Yes. 36 00:05:40,372 --> 00:05:43,469 - What's your first name? - Harrison. Harry. 37 00:05:43,583 --> 00:05:48,388 Well, Harry, look. I'm not West Point, and all this formality kind of gets me down. 38 00:05:48,505 --> 00:05:53,179 It puts me ill at ease. You think it would be too much of an infraction of the rules 39 00:05:53,301 --> 00:05:56,267 if you were to call me Judge or Dan or something? 40 00:05:56,388 --> 00:06:00,315 OK, Judge. We do all our shopping at the army commissary. 41 00:06:00,433 --> 00:06:04,444 There isn't enough food at the local markets. The driver knows where it is. 42 00:06:04,563 --> 00:06:07,576 Here's a copy of the indictment of the case. 43 00:06:07,691 --> 00:06:10,704 - Thanks. - I hope you'll be comfortable here, sir. 44 00:06:10,819 --> 00:06:14,580 Captain, I think the whole state of Maine would be comfortable here. 45 00:06:14,698 --> 00:06:17,581 My office is next to yours, if you need anything. 46 00:06:17,701 --> 00:06:19,753 - Thank you. - Senator. 47 00:06:26,543 --> 00:06:31,300 Do you think I need the three servants? It kind of makes me feel like a damn fool. 48 00:06:31,423 --> 00:06:35,931 Well, it helps them out as well as you. You see, here they eat. 49 00:06:36,052 --> 00:06:37,345 Oh. 50 00:06:37,470 --> 00:06:40,519 Well, I need three servants. 51 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,358 It's good to have a man of your stature here, Dan. 52 00:06:43,476 --> 00:06:48,910 Sure. Sure. I was the only man in America qualified for this job. 53 00:06:49,024 --> 00:06:52,120 You know I wasn't the first choice, nor even the tenth. 54 00:06:52,235 --> 00:06:54,287 - You know it, I know it. - What do you mean? 55 00:06:54,404 --> 00:07:00,170 Let's face it. Hitler is gone, Goebbels is gone, Göring is gone... committed suicide. 56 00:07:00,285 --> 00:07:04,081 Now we're down to judging the doctors, businessmen and judges. 57 00:07:04,205 --> 00:07:07,883 - Some think they shouldn't be judged. - So? 58 00:07:08,001 --> 00:07:10,469 It makes for a lack of candidates for the job. 59 00:07:10,587 --> 00:07:15,178 You had to beat the backwoods of Maine to come up with a hick like me. 60 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:19,606 - I hope you're not sorry you came. - No, I'm not sorry I came. 61 00:07:19,721 --> 00:07:22,651 I just wanted you to know I know where the body is buried. 62 00:07:22,766 --> 00:07:25,067 No, I think the trials should go on. 63 00:07:25,185 --> 00:07:29,575 Especially the trials of the German judges. I hope I'm up to it. 64 00:07:29,689 --> 00:07:31,529 You're up to it. 65 00:07:31,650 --> 00:07:36,905 Well, relax. Enjoy this place while you can. 66 00:07:37,030 --> 00:07:40,494 - You're gonna be a pretty busy fellow. - Thanks, Senator. 67 00:07:40,617 --> 00:07:42,918 See you tomorrow, Judge. 68 00:07:43,912 --> 00:07:46,925 Shall we, uh, take these upstairs? 69 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,508 Oh, yes, thank you. 70 00:07:52,254 --> 00:07:56,893 - Here, I can take that one. - No, let me take it. Please. 71 00:08:32,419 --> 00:08:35,100 Here they come. 72 00:09:05,452 --> 00:09:07,836 The tribunal is now in session. 73 00:09:07,954 --> 00:09:12,426 God bless the United States and this honourable tribunal. 74 00:09:45,325 --> 00:09:48,042 The tribunal will now arraign the defendants. 75 00:09:48,161 --> 00:09:53,760 A microphone will be placed in front of the defendant Emil Hahn. 76 00:09:58,255 --> 00:10:02,727 Emil Hahn, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 77 00:10:07,472 --> 00:10:09,442 Not guilty. 78 00:10:09,558 --> 00:10:12,690 The question was are you represented by counsel? 79 00:10:17,899 --> 00:10:18,991 I am represented. 80 00:10:19,109 --> 00:10:23,783 How do you plead to the charges and specifications in the indictment, 81 00:10:23,905 --> 00:10:26,124 guilty or not guilty? 82 00:10:27,993 --> 00:10:30,923 Not guilty on all counts. 83 00:10:31,037 --> 00:10:33,089 Friedrich Hofstetter. 84 00:10:34,541 --> 00:10:37,424 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 85 00:10:39,379 --> 00:10:43,602 - I am represented. - How do you plead, guilty or not guilty? 86 00:10:43,717 --> 00:10:46,434 Nicht schuldig. 87 00:10:46,553 --> 00:10:49,234 You may be seated. 88 00:10:52,893 --> 00:10:54,613 Werner Lampe. 89 00:10:59,983 --> 00:11:03,530 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 90 00:11:03,653 --> 00:11:05,705 Counsel? 91 00:11:09,492 --> 00:11:12,422 Yes, yes, of course, I am represented. 92 00:11:13,288 --> 00:11:17,429 How do you plead to the charges, guilty or not guilty? 93 00:11:17,542 --> 00:11:19,512 Nicht schuldig. 94 00:11:19,628 --> 00:11:22,096 You may be seated. 95 00:11:24,132 --> 00:11:26,932 Ernst Janning. 96 00:11:27,052 --> 00:11:32,984 Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 97 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:54,255 Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 98 00:12:04,172 --> 00:12:07,636 I represent the defendant, Your Honour. 99 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:10,772 How do you plead to the charges and specifications 100 00:12:10,887 --> 00:12:16,142 set forth in the indictment against you, guilty or not guilty? 101 00:12:19,187 --> 00:12:21,951 Your Honour, may I address the court? 102 00:12:33,994 --> 00:12:37,208 The defendant does not recognise the authority of this tribunal 103 00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:39,418 and wishes to lodge a formal protest. 104 00:12:39,541 --> 00:12:42,922 A plea of not guilty will be entered. 105 00:12:57,726 --> 00:13:01,949 The prosecution will begin its opening address. 106 00:13:02,314 --> 00:13:04,366 Slow and easy, Junior. 107 00:13:18,371 --> 00:13:23,675 The case is unusual, in that the defendants are charged with crimes 108 00:13:23,793 --> 00:13:26,558 committed in the name of the law. 109 00:13:27,297 --> 00:13:32,517 These men, together with their deceased or fugitive colleagues, 110 00:13:32,636 --> 00:13:38,437 are the embodiment of what passed for justice during the Third Reich. 111 00:13:38,558 --> 00:13:43,945 The defendants served as judges during the period of the Third Reich. 112 00:13:44,064 --> 00:13:47,694 Therefore you, Your Honours, as judges on the bench, 113 00:13:47,817 --> 00:13:52,955 will be sitting in judgment of judges in the dock. 114 00:13:54,741 --> 00:13:56,995 And this is as it should be. 115 00:13:57,118 --> 00:14:03,050 For only a judge knows how much more a court is than a courtroom. 116 00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,966 It is a process and a spirit. 117 00:14:07,045 --> 00:14:09,097 It is the house of law. 118 00:14:11,299 --> 00:14:15,012 The defendants knew this too. They knew courtrooms well. 119 00:14:15,136 --> 00:14:18,648 They sat in their black robes and they distorted, they perverted, 120 00:14:18,765 --> 00:14:21,613 they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 121 00:14:21,726 --> 00:14:25,439 The prosecution will please watch the light. 122 00:14:25,564 --> 00:14:29,194 - The interpreter cannot follow you. - I'm sorry, Your Honour. 123 00:14:29,317 --> 00:14:32,580 They distorted, they perverted, 124 00:14:32,696 --> 00:14:36,409 they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 125 00:14:37,826 --> 00:14:41,088 This in itself is undoubtedly a great crime. 126 00:14:41,204 --> 00:14:44,467 But the prosecution is not calling the defendants to account 127 00:14:44,583 --> 00:14:50,384 for violating constitutional guaranties or withholding due process of law. 128 00:14:50,505 --> 00:14:55,014 The prosecution is calling them to account for murder, 129 00:14:56,553 --> 00:14:58,973 brutalities, 130 00:14:59,097 --> 00:15:01,517 torture, 131 00:15:01,766 --> 00:15:04,151 atrocities! 132 00:15:04,269 --> 00:15:07,781 They share, with all the leaders of the Third Reich, 133 00:15:07,898 --> 00:15:11,492 responsibility for the most malignant, the most calculated, 134 00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:15,916 the most devastating crimes in the history of all mankind. 135 00:15:16,031 --> 00:15:18,830 They are perhaps more guilty than some of the others, 136 00:15:18,950 --> 00:15:24,337 for they had attained maturity long before Hitler's rise to power. 137 00:15:24,456 --> 00:15:29,426 Their minds weren't warped at an early age by Nazi teachings. 138 00:15:29,544 --> 00:15:34,978 They embraced the ideologies of the Third Reich as educated adults, 139 00:15:35,091 --> 00:15:39,848 when they, most of all, should have valued justice. 140 00:15:45,352 --> 00:15:49,991 Here they'll receive the justice they denied others. 141 00:15:51,524 --> 00:15:56,495 They'll be judged according to the evidence presented in this courtroom. 142 00:15:56,613 --> 00:15:59,081 The prosecution asks nothing more. 143 00:16:03,203 --> 00:16:06,999 Herr Rolfe will make the opening statement for the defence. 144 00:16:22,556 --> 00:16:25,273 May it please the tribunal. 145 00:16:27,394 --> 00:16:31,736 It is not only a great honour... 146 00:16:31,856 --> 00:16:33,944 but also a great challenge... 147 00:16:34,067 --> 00:16:36,119 for an advocate... 148 00:16:37,529 --> 00:16:40,626 to aid this tribunal in its task. 149 00:16:42,576 --> 00:16:45,209 The entire civilised world 150 00:16:45,328 --> 00:16:48,425 will follow closely what we do here. 151 00:16:49,541 --> 00:16:52,638 For this is not an ordinary trial, 152 00:16:52,752 --> 00:16:56,679 by any means of the accepted parochial sense. 153 00:16:58,258 --> 00:17:00,263 The avowed purpose of this tribunal 154 00:17:00,385 --> 00:17:05,024 is broader than the visiting of retribution on a few men. 155 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:11,487 It is dedicated to the reconsecration of the temple of justice. 156 00:17:11,605 --> 00:17:17,952 It is dedicated to finding a code of justice the whole world will be responsible to. 157 00:17:21,448 --> 00:17:24,413 How will this code be established? 158 00:17:26,912 --> 00:17:28,964 It will be established 159 00:17:31,917 --> 00:17:39,141 in a clear, honest evaluation of the responsibility for the crimes 160 00:17:39,257 --> 00:17:43,101 in the indictment stated by the prosecution. 161 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:48,653 In the words of the great American jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes, 162 00:17:48,767 --> 00:17:51,946 "This responsibility will not be found only in documents 163 00:17:52,062 --> 00:17:55,075 that no one contests or denies." 164 00:17:55,190 --> 00:18:00,363 "it will be found in considerations of a political or social nature." 165 00:18:00,487 --> 00:18:07,462 "it will be found, most of all, in the character of men." 166 00:18:09,829 --> 00:18:13,211 What is the character of Ernst Janning? 167 00:18:14,876 --> 00:18:17,973 Let us examine his life for a moment. 168 00:18:18,964 --> 00:18:21,432 He was born in 1885. 169 00:18:21,549 --> 00:18:24,349 Received the degree of Doctor of Law in 1907. 170 00:18:24,469 --> 00:18:27,233 Became a judge in East Prussia in 1914. 171 00:18:27,347 --> 00:18:30,894 Following World War I, he became one of the Weimar Republic leaders 172 00:18:31,017 --> 00:18:33,900 and one of the framers of its democratic constitution. 173 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:36,738 In subsequent years, he achieved international fame 174 00:18:36,856 --> 00:18:41,033 not only for his work as a great jurist, but also as the author of legal textbooks 175 00:18:41,152 --> 00:18:44,082 which are still used in universities all over the world. 176 00:18:44,197 --> 00:18:48,420 He became Minister of Justice in Germany in 1935. 177 00:18:49,411 --> 00:18:52,376 If Ernst Janning is to be found guilty, 178 00:18:52,497 --> 00:18:55,843 certain implications must arise. 179 00:18:56,001 --> 00:18:59,844 A judge does not make the laws. 180 00:19:01,172 --> 00:19:04,934 He carries out the laws of his country. 181 00:19:05,051 --> 00:19:09,808 The statement "My country, right or wrong" 182 00:19:10,891 --> 00:19:14,604 was expressed by a great American patriot. 183 00:19:16,062 --> 00:19:19,360 It is no less true for a German patriot. 184 00:19:22,444 --> 00:19:26,536 Should Ernst Janning have carried out the laws of his country? 185 00:19:26,656 --> 00:19:31,128 Or should he have refused to carry them out and become a traitor? 186 00:19:31,244 --> 00:19:36,001 This is the crux of the issue at the bottom of this trial. 187 00:19:38,668 --> 00:19:43,473 The defence is as dedicated to finding responsibility 188 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:45,642 as is the prosecution. 189 00:19:47,219 --> 00:19:51,644 For it is not only Ernst Janning who is on trial here. 190 00:19:55,018 --> 00:19:57,272 It is the German people. 191 00:20:00,941 --> 00:20:04,903 The tribunal will recess until further notification. 192 00:20:37,477 --> 00:20:39,529 Yeah. 193 00:20:42,315 --> 00:20:47,072 If it's all right with you, Byers can file these briefs later. 194 00:20:47,195 --> 00:20:51,751 It was quite a damning speech by Colonel Lawson, wasn't it? 195 00:20:51,866 --> 00:20:54,915 I wonder if those men in the dock can really be responsible 196 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:57,373 for the things he listed in the indictment. 197 00:20:57,497 --> 00:20:59,917 I've been here two years, and after that long 198 00:21:00,041 --> 00:21:04,348 you find that responsibility is not a cut-and-dried thing. 199 00:21:04,462 --> 00:21:06,598 What are you fellows up to this weekend? 200 00:21:06,715 --> 00:21:09,051 My wife and I are going to Liége. 201 00:21:09,175 --> 00:21:11,477 There's nothing in Liege. I've been there. 202 00:21:11,595 --> 00:21:13,564 My son was in the 101 st. 203 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,108 He's buried in the American cemetery outside Liege. 204 00:21:17,225 --> 00:21:19,906 - I'm sorry. - That's all right. 205 00:21:20,604 --> 00:21:22,858 - See you Monday, Dan. - Mm. 206 00:21:24,024 --> 00:21:27,286 - Coming my way? - No, I'm staying here for a moment. 207 00:21:27,402 --> 00:21:29,739 I'm waiting for some records from Byers. 208 00:21:29,863 --> 00:21:31,915 Right. 209 00:21:53,220 --> 00:21:57,775 - Here are the reports you asked for, sir. - Thank you. 210 00:21:58,683 --> 00:22:03,440 Captain, do you think you could get me a copy of the books Ernst Janning wrote? 211 00:22:03,563 --> 00:22:06,695 - There are quite a few of them. - I'd like all of them. 212 00:22:06,816 --> 00:22:10,613 And also a copy of the Weimar constitution. Can you get that for me? 213 00:22:10,737 --> 00:22:13,667 - Yes, of course. - Thank you. 214 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,174 - How long have you been here, Captain? - Two years. 215 00:22:20,288 --> 00:22:23,136 - Two years, that's a long time. - Yes, sir. 216 00:22:23,291 --> 00:22:25,343 - Any friends? - Sure. 217 00:22:27,462 --> 00:22:30,048 - German friends? - Yes. 218 00:22:31,174 --> 00:22:33,262 - A girl? - Yes. 219 00:22:34,302 --> 00:22:37,481 Her parents were Nazis, but she was eight when they came in. 220 00:22:37,597 --> 00:22:40,361 - I didn't ask you that. - Maybe you were thinking it. 221 00:22:40,475 --> 00:22:42,860 It's natural to think about it. 222 00:22:42,978 --> 00:22:46,655 I thought if anybody was going to indoctrinate her, it might as well be me. 223 00:22:46,773 --> 00:22:50,570 - Will there be anything else? - No. I think I'll take a walk around town. 224 00:22:50,694 --> 00:22:53,244 Try the old section for a beer and a sausage. 225 00:22:53,363 --> 00:22:55,415 Thank you. 226 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,572 Nicht mehr! Nicht mehr! 227 00:24:15,862 --> 00:24:17,914 Auf Wiedersehen, Opa. 228 00:24:24,621 --> 00:24:27,171 - Do you understand English? - Yes, a little. 229 00:24:27,290 --> 00:24:31,513 - What did she say? - She said "Goodbye, Grandpa." 230 00:25:20,302 --> 00:25:23,101 Vor uns liegt Deutschland, 231 00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:25,522 in uns marschiert Deutschland, 232 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,819 und hinter uns kommt Deutschland. 233 00:25:44,534 --> 00:25:48,794 - Are they treating you all right? - Yes. They are treating me all right. 234 00:25:48,914 --> 00:25:54,513 We still have some friends who have contact with the American authorities. 235 00:25:54,628 --> 00:25:59,219 - I can tell them if they are not. - They're treating me all right. 236 00:26:02,052 --> 00:26:04,104 Doctor Janning... 237 00:26:05,931 --> 00:26:08,434 we are both in an embarrassing position. 238 00:26:08,558 --> 00:26:10,813 I know you didn't want me as your counsel. 239 00:26:10,936 --> 00:26:14,317 I know you didn't want anyone. 240 00:26:14,439 --> 00:26:18,580 But I must tell you something. Will you listen to me? 241 00:26:18,693 --> 00:26:20,034 Yes. 242 00:26:22,864 --> 00:26:28,119 I intend to represent your case with complete dignity. 243 00:26:28,245 --> 00:26:32,041 There will be no appeal to sentiment, 244 00:26:32,165 --> 00:26:35,677 there will be no falling at the mercy of the court. 245 00:26:35,794 --> 00:26:41,726 The game will be played according to their own rules. 246 00:26:43,551 --> 00:26:49,982 We'll see whether they have the courage to sit in judgment on a man like you. 247 00:26:50,183 --> 00:26:52,235 The way I see it, 248 00:26:53,645 --> 00:27:00,194 the most important elements in the case are the sterilisation decrees 249 00:27:00,318 --> 00:27:03,830 and the Feldenstein-Hoffman affair. 250 00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:10,080 Doctor Janning, 251 00:27:10,203 --> 00:27:12,457 I must tell you something. 252 00:27:16,543 --> 00:27:22,095 I admired you since I was a boy in the university. 253 00:27:23,383 --> 00:27:26,847 It was because I thought I might be able to achieve 254 00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,900 some of the things you have done 255 00:27:30,015 --> 00:27:34,855 that saw me through the war. 256 00:27:37,022 --> 00:27:41,661 You have been somebody to look up to for all of us. 257 00:27:43,904 --> 00:27:46,288 Is that all, Herr Rolfe? 258 00:27:50,827 --> 00:27:52,879 - Yes. - Thank you. 259 00:28:03,381 --> 00:28:07,012 Dr Wieck, do you know the defendant Ernst Janning? 260 00:28:10,388 --> 00:28:12,440 Yes, I know him. 261 00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:15,108 Will you tell us in what capacity? 262 00:28:15,227 --> 00:28:20,696 We served in the Ministry of Justice together from 1929 till 1935. 263 00:28:20,815 --> 00:28:26,498 - Did you know him before that? - Yes. He was a law student of mine. 264 00:28:26,613 --> 00:28:28,369 - Did you know him well? - Yes. 265 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:30,329 - Was he a protégé of yours? - Yes. 266 00:28:30,450 --> 00:28:32,751 Why? 267 00:28:32,869 --> 00:28:36,879 He was always a man of great intelligence. 268 00:28:36,998 --> 00:28:41,839 He was a man born with the qualities of a great legal mind. 269 00:28:41,962 --> 00:28:45,010 Dr Wieck, would you, uh... 270 00:28:46,091 --> 00:28:49,353 would you tell us, from your own experience, 271 00:28:49,469 --> 00:28:55,816 the position of the judge in Germany prior to the advent of Adolf Hitler? 272 00:28:55,934 --> 00:28:59,481 The position of the judge was one of complete independence. 273 00:28:59,604 --> 00:29:01,075 Mm-hm. 274 00:29:01,189 --> 00:29:05,151 Now would you describe the contrast, if any, 275 00:29:05,277 --> 00:29:09,156 after the coming to power of National Socialism in 1933? 276 00:29:09,864 --> 00:29:15,748 Judges became subject to something outside of objective justice. 277 00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:21,470 They were subject to what was necessary for the protection of the country. 278 00:29:21,585 --> 00:29:25,511 - Would you explain this, please? - The first consideration of the judge 279 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:29,094 became the punishment of acts against the state, 280 00:29:29,217 --> 00:29:31,898 rather than objective consideration of the case. 281 00:29:32,762 --> 00:29:35,562 And what other changes were there? 282 00:29:35,682 --> 00:29:39,443 The right to appeal was eliminated. 283 00:29:39,561 --> 00:29:46,074 The Supreme Court of the Reich was replaced by peoples' and special courts. 284 00:29:47,068 --> 00:29:52,158 The concept of race was made a legal concept for the first time. 285 00:29:52,616 --> 00:29:55,296 And what was the result of this? 286 00:29:55,452 --> 00:29:57,504 The result? 287 00:29:58,914 --> 00:30:02,627 The result was to hand over the administration of justice 288 00:30:02,751 --> 00:30:05,598 into the hands of the dictatorship. 289 00:30:05,712 --> 00:30:07,634 - Dr Wieck... - Colonel Lawson, 290 00:30:07,756 --> 00:30:10,686 I'd like to ask a few questions. 291 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,356 Did the judiciary protest these laws abridging their independence? 292 00:30:15,472 --> 00:30:21,071 A few of them did. Those who did resigned or were forced to resign. 293 00:30:21,853 --> 00:30:23,905 Others... 294 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:28,284 adapted themselves to the new situation. 295 00:30:29,611 --> 00:30:34,665 Do you think the judiciary was aware of the consequences to come? 296 00:30:34,783 --> 00:30:36,918 At first, perhaps not. 297 00:30:37,035 --> 00:30:42,718 Later it became clear to anyone who had eyes and ears. 298 00:30:42,832 --> 00:30:44,220 Thank you. 299 00:30:45,543 --> 00:30:50,183 Now, would you please describe for us the changes in criminal law. 300 00:30:50,966 --> 00:30:57,147 Its characteristic was an ever-increasing inflation of the death penalty. 301 00:30:57,264 --> 00:31:00,111 Sentences were passed against defendants 302 00:31:00,225 --> 00:31:06,323 just because they were Poles or Jews, or politically undesirable. 303 00:31:06,439 --> 00:31:10,366 Novel National Socialist measures were introduced, 304 00:31:10,485 --> 00:31:16,334 among them sexual sterilisation for those who were categorised as asocial. 305 00:31:16,449 --> 00:31:23,378 Was it necessary for judges to wear any distinctive mark on their robes in 1935? 306 00:31:23,498 --> 00:31:26,381 The so-called "Führer's decree" 307 00:31:26,543 --> 00:31:30,600 required judges to wear the insignia of the swastika on their robes. 308 00:31:30,714 --> 00:31:34,308 - Did you wear such an insignia? - No. 309 00:31:34,426 --> 00:31:36,478 I would have been ashamed to wear it. 310 00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:41,150 - Did you resign in 1935? - Yes, sir. 311 00:31:41,266 --> 00:31:45,193 Did Ernst Janning wear a swastika on his robe? 312 00:31:48,732 --> 00:31:50,737 Yes. 313 00:31:50,859 --> 00:31:53,623 That's all. Thank you. 314 00:31:57,282 --> 00:31:58,705 Herr Rolfe. 315 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,636 Herr Justizrat Dr Wieck. 316 00:32:10,420 --> 00:32:17,016 You used the phrase "necessary for the protection of the country." 317 00:32:17,135 --> 00:32:19,686 Would you explain the conditions in Germany 318 00:32:19,804 --> 00:32:23,103 at the time National Socialism came to power? 319 00:32:23,225 --> 00:32:25,277 What conditions? 320 00:32:28,188 --> 00:32:30,442 Would you say there was widespread hunger? 321 00:32:30,565 --> 00:32:31,609 Yes. 322 00:32:31,733 --> 00:32:34,367 Would you say there was internal disunity? 323 00:32:34,486 --> 00:32:35,743 Yes. 324 00:32:35,862 --> 00:32:38,792 - Was there a Communist Party? - Yes. 325 00:32:38,907 --> 00:32:41,126 Was it the third largest party in Germany? 326 00:32:41,243 --> 00:32:43,164 Mm... yes. 327 00:32:43,286 --> 00:32:50,013 Would you say that National Socialism helped to cure some of these conditions? 328 00:32:51,336 --> 00:32:53,555 Yes, but at a terrible price, and... 329 00:32:53,672 --> 00:32:58,560 Please, confine yourself to answering the questions only. 330 00:32:58,677 --> 00:33:02,141 Therefore, was it not possible that a judge might wear a swastika 331 00:33:02,264 --> 00:33:05,312 and yet work for what he thought was best for his country? 332 00:33:05,433 --> 00:33:08,316 No. It was not possible. 333 00:33:11,898 --> 00:33:13,950 Dr Wieck, 334 00:33:15,694 --> 00:33:22,788 you were not in the administration from the years 1935 to 1943, 335 00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:25,626 by your own admission. 336 00:33:25,745 --> 00:33:33,006 Is it not possible that your view of the administration might be distorted? 337 00:33:33,128 --> 00:33:35,133 No, it is not. 338 00:33:36,214 --> 00:33:41,980 How can you testify about events in the administration if you were not there? 339 00:33:42,095 --> 00:33:45,061 I had many friends in the legal administration. 340 00:33:45,181 --> 00:33:48,065 There were journals and books. 341 00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:51,990 From journals and books? 342 00:33:55,775 --> 00:33:57,827 I see. 343 00:33:59,195 --> 00:34:04,000 Dr Wieck, you referred to "novel National Socialist measures introduced, 344 00:34:04,117 --> 00:34:07,332 among them sexual sterilisation." 345 00:34:07,454 --> 00:34:11,713 Are you aware that sexual sterilisation was not invented by National Socialism, 346 00:34:11,833 --> 00:34:14,763 but had been advanced for years before as a weapon 347 00:34:14,878 --> 00:34:18,224 in dealing with the mentally incompetent and the criminal? 348 00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:20,012 Yes, I am aware of that. 349 00:34:20,133 --> 00:34:24,013 Are you aware it has advocates among leading citizens in many countries? 350 00:34:24,137 --> 00:34:27,020 I am not an expert on such laws. 351 00:34:28,141 --> 00:34:30,905 Then permit me to read one to you. 352 00:34:33,063 --> 00:34:36,610 This is a High Court opinion 353 00:34:36,733 --> 00:34:41,372 upholding such laws in existence in another country. 354 00:34:42,906 --> 00:34:44,958 And I quote: 355 00:34:49,371 --> 00:34:52,384 "We have seen more than once that the public welfare 356 00:34:52,499 --> 00:34:55,216 may call upon their best citizens for their lives." 357 00:34:55,335 --> 00:34:58,218 "it would be strange indeed if it could not call upon 358 00:34:58,338 --> 00:35:02,763 those who already sap the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices 359 00:35:02,884 --> 00:35:06,313 in order to prevent our being swamped by incompetence." 360 00:35:06,429 --> 00:35:10,570 "it is better if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime 361 00:35:10,684 --> 00:35:12,938 or to let them starve for their imbecility, 362 00:35:13,061 --> 00:35:19,574 society can prevent their propagation by medical means in the first place." 363 00:35:21,736 --> 00:35:25,747 "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." 364 00:35:28,243 --> 00:35:32,715 - Do you recognise it now, Dr Wieck? - No, sir, I don't. 365 00:35:33,707 --> 00:35:37,384 Actually, there is no particular reason you should, 366 00:35:37,502 --> 00:35:41,429 since the opinion upholds the sterilisation law in the state of Virginia, 367 00:35:41,548 --> 00:35:43,767 of the United States, 368 00:35:43,883 --> 00:35:46,601 and was written by that great American jurist 369 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:52,402 Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. 370 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:04,909 Now, Dr Wieck, 371 00:36:05,739 --> 00:36:08,207 in view of what you have just learned, 372 00:36:08,325 --> 00:36:13,331 can you still say that sexual sterilisation was a "novel National Socialist measure"? 373 00:36:13,455 --> 00:36:15,507 Yes, I can say it, 374 00:36:15,624 --> 00:36:22,054 because it was never before used as a weapon against political opponents. 375 00:36:22,172 --> 00:36:24,224 Do you personally know of a case 376 00:36:24,341 --> 00:36:27,888 where someone was sterilised for political reasons? 377 00:36:28,011 --> 00:36:31,190 - I know that such things were done. - That's not the question. 378 00:36:31,306 --> 00:36:35,268 Please answer the question. Do you know of a case? 379 00:36:35,393 --> 00:36:39,190 I don't know of any specific case or specific date. 380 00:36:39,314 --> 00:36:43,276 I am asking if you have any first-hand, personal knowledge of such a case! 381 00:36:44,402 --> 00:36:47,700 No, I have no such personal knowledge. 382 00:36:47,822 --> 00:36:49,874 Thank you. 383 00:36:58,875 --> 00:37:00,927 Dr Wieck, 384 00:37:05,131 --> 00:37:10,435 you are aware of the charges in the indictment against Ernst Janning? 385 00:37:16,059 --> 00:37:18,444 Yes, I am. 386 00:37:18,979 --> 00:37:23,404 Can you honestly say he is responsible for them? 387 00:37:24,609 --> 00:37:26,661 Yes, I can. 388 00:37:27,904 --> 00:37:32,164 Do you consider yourself free of responsibility? 389 00:37:34,744 --> 00:37:35,918 Yes, I do. 390 00:37:37,831 --> 00:37:44,213 Dr Wieck, did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 391 00:37:44,337 --> 00:37:46,841 Your Honour, I object. 392 00:37:46,965 --> 00:37:52,019 The witness doesn't have to answer that question. He's not on trial. 393 00:37:52,137 --> 00:37:57,107 All Germany is on trial. This tribunal put it on trial when it indicted Ernst Janning. 394 00:37:57,225 --> 00:38:02,398 If responsibility is to be found, the widest latitude is to be permitted. 395 00:38:02,522 --> 00:38:04,361 Objection overruled. 396 00:38:05,692 --> 00:38:09,951 Did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 397 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,953 - Everyone did. - We are not interested in everyone. 398 00:38:16,077 --> 00:38:18,628 We are interested in what you did. 399 00:38:18,747 --> 00:38:24,133 Would you read the oath from the Reich Law Gazette, March 1933. 400 00:38:24,252 --> 00:38:28,642 "I swear that I shall obey the leader of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, 401 00:38:28,757 --> 00:38:31,936 that I shall be loyal to him, that I will observe the laws 402 00:38:32,052 --> 00:38:36,892 and that I will conscientiously fulfil my duties, so help me God." 403 00:38:37,015 --> 00:38:39,067 Everyone swore to it. 404 00:38:40,143 --> 00:38:42,694 It was mandatory. 405 00:38:44,189 --> 00:38:46,443 Yes. 406 00:38:46,566 --> 00:38:52,664 But you're such a perceptive man, Dr Wieck. You could see what was coming. 407 00:38:52,781 --> 00:38:57,538 You could see that National Socialism was leading Germany to disaster. 408 00:38:57,661 --> 00:39:00,591 "It was clear to anyone who had eyes and ears." 409 00:39:02,457 --> 00:39:06,598 Didn't you realise what it would have meant 410 00:39:06,711 --> 00:39:12,595 if you, and men like you, would have refused to swear to the oath? 411 00:39:12,717 --> 00:39:18,934 It would have meant that Hitler could never have come to absolute power! 412 00:39:20,725 --> 00:39:24,866 Why didn't you? Dr Wieck, why didn't you? 413 00:39:26,273 --> 00:39:29,452 Can you give us an explanation? 414 00:39:29,568 --> 00:39:31,738 Has it something to do with your pension? 415 00:39:31,861 --> 00:39:34,282 Did it mean more to you than your country? 416 00:39:34,406 --> 00:39:38,119 Your Honour, I object to the entire line of questioning 417 00:39:38,243 --> 00:39:40,580 and ask that it be stricken from the record. 418 00:39:40,704 --> 00:39:43,717 Prosecuting counsel's job is to find responsibility. 419 00:39:43,832 --> 00:39:45,967 Your Honour, I made an objection. 420 00:39:46,084 --> 00:39:48,801 Prosecution does not want to find responsibility? 421 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,559 There is responsibility for more here than swearing to a loyalty oath! 422 00:39:53,675 --> 00:39:54,683 There is indeed! 423 00:39:54,801 --> 00:39:57,102 - Order. - One thing even the German machine, 424 00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:00,732 with its monumental efficiency, has been unable to destroy! 425 00:40:00,849 --> 00:40:03,233 - Order! - All the victims! 426 00:40:03,351 --> 00:40:06,733 More victims than the world has ever known. They will walk in here... 427 00:40:06,855 --> 00:40:09,441 Order! Order! 428 00:40:09,566 --> 00:40:13,956 This tribunal will admonish both counsels. It will not tolerate this again. 429 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:17,534 We're not here to listen to such outbursts, but to serve justice. 430 00:40:17,657 --> 00:40:21,501 - Your Honour, I made an objection. - The objection is overruled. 431 00:40:23,038 --> 00:40:25,292 The witness is excused. 432 00:40:57,822 --> 00:41:01,085 - Ever read any books by Janning? - No, I don't think so. 433 00:41:01,201 --> 00:41:04,084 - The Meaning of the Law. - How is it? Interesting? 434 00:41:04,204 --> 00:41:07,301 All the books by Janning are interesting. 435 00:41:07,415 --> 00:41:11,128 They're a picture of an era, its hopes, aspirations. 436 00:41:11,253 --> 00:41:13,637 They weren't very different from ours. 437 00:41:13,755 --> 00:41:17,349 Listen to this, on the signing of the Weimar constitution. 438 00:41:17,467 --> 00:41:21,347 "Now we can look forward to a Germany without guns and bloodshed." 439 00:41:21,471 --> 00:41:25,398 "A Germany of justice, where men can live instead of die." 440 00:41:25,517 --> 00:41:28,566 "A Germany of purpose, of freedom, of humanity." 441 00:41:28,687 --> 00:41:30,941 "A Germany that calls for the best in man." 442 00:41:31,064 --> 00:41:33,199 How could a man who wrote words like these 443 00:41:33,316 --> 00:41:37,077 be part of sterilisations and murders? How could he be? 444 00:41:37,195 --> 00:41:41,075 Dan, there are a lot of things that happened here that nobody understands. 445 00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:43,287 I know. 446 00:41:43,410 --> 00:41:47,337 But the prosecution is going to have to prove every inch of its allegation 447 00:41:47,455 --> 00:41:51,466 against a man like Janning if I'm to pronounce sentence on him. 448 00:41:51,585 --> 00:41:53,506 Gentlemen, I'm on my way. 449 00:41:53,628 --> 00:41:55,680 - Coming, Ken? - Right. 450 00:41:56,548 --> 00:42:00,391 There's just this business on the curtailment of rights. 451 00:42:00,510 --> 00:42:01,851 Tomorrow. 452 00:42:01,970 --> 00:42:05,517 Dan, my wife is planning a get-together tomorrow at the Grand Hotel. 453 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,104 - She wants you to come. - All right. Thank you. 454 00:42:09,227 --> 00:42:13,534 And she'd like to provide you with some kind of female companionship. 455 00:42:13,648 --> 00:42:15,784 She thought you might be lonely here. 456 00:42:15,901 --> 00:42:18,285 No, thanks, Curtiss. Thanks very much. 457 00:42:18,403 --> 00:42:20,740 You know how these wives love to play Cupid. 458 00:42:20,864 --> 00:42:23,248 - I think I'll keep it stag. - All right. 459 00:42:23,366 --> 00:42:26,296 - How about you, Ken? - Thanks. My wife and I are busy. 460 00:42:26,411 --> 00:42:29,376 - Good night. - Good night, Dan. 461 00:42:49,643 --> 00:42:51,979 Mrs Halbestadt, could I... 462 00:42:54,022 --> 00:42:55,694 Hello. 463 00:42:56,524 --> 00:42:58,779 Hello. 464 00:42:58,902 --> 00:43:01,999 Your Honour, this is Madame Bertholt. 465 00:43:02,113 --> 00:43:04,201 This is His Honour, Judge Haywood. 466 00:43:05,575 --> 00:43:08,423 Madame Bertholt, this is her house. 467 00:43:08,536 --> 00:43:11,502 She came to get some of her belongings from the basement. 468 00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:16,013 - I didn't know she was coming tonight. - It's my responsibility, Mrs Halbestadt. 469 00:43:16,127 --> 00:43:21,217 I've stored some of my things here until I could get a room large enough for them. 470 00:43:21,341 --> 00:43:24,022 - I hope you don't mind. - No. Not at all. 471 00:43:24,427 --> 00:43:27,441 You can examine what I have here if you like. 472 00:43:27,556 --> 00:43:30,486 - Of course not. - Then I'll just take these out. 473 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,985 - Thank you, Mrs Halbestadt. - Let me help you. 474 00:43:33,103 --> 00:43:36,449 - I can manage. - I'll just take it outside. Please. 475 00:43:36,565 --> 00:43:38,617 Good night. 476 00:43:51,705 --> 00:43:56,878 It's heavy. It's full of books and pictures that mean nothing to anyone but me. 477 00:43:57,002 --> 00:43:59,338 - Mr Schmidt! - Your Honour. 478 00:44:01,131 --> 00:44:04,725 - Would you drive Mrs Bertholt home? - Yes, Your Honour. 479 00:44:04,843 --> 00:44:07,524 - I hope you're comfortable here. - Yes, I am. Very. 480 00:44:07,637 --> 00:44:10,141 My favourite spot was always the garden. 481 00:44:10,265 --> 00:44:13,362 Remind Mr Halbestadt to take good care of the rock garden. 482 00:44:13,476 --> 00:44:16,573 You'll get a great deal of pleasure out of it in summer. 483 00:44:16,688 --> 00:44:19,156 I'll sit in front, thank you. 484 00:44:21,234 --> 00:44:22,824 - Good night. - Good night. 485 00:44:22,944 --> 00:44:26,242 - Karolinenstrasse 115. - Yes, madam. 486 00:44:46,259 --> 00:44:48,311 Sit down, sit down. 487 00:44:50,388 --> 00:44:53,983 Mrs Halbestadt, you worked for Mrs Bertholt, didn't you? 488 00:44:55,185 --> 00:44:58,483 - Yes, Your Honour. - How long did she live here? 489 00:44:59,189 --> 00:45:00,945 Madame Bertholt? 490 00:45:01,066 --> 00:45:05,823 Oh, Madame Bertholt and her family have lived here for many generations. 491 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:09,117 Thank you. 492 00:45:10,075 --> 00:45:13,337 Your Honour, you came in here for something? 493 00:45:13,453 --> 00:45:14,794 Oh! Oh, yeah. 494 00:45:14,913 --> 00:45:17,084 I'm just going to make myself a sandwich. 495 00:45:17,207 --> 00:45:20,054 We will make it. We will make you anything you want. 496 00:45:20,168 --> 00:45:22,968 No, it's nothing. I always did it for myself back home. 497 00:45:23,088 --> 00:45:27,976 What would you like? I have some ham and cheese and liverwurst. 498 00:45:28,093 --> 00:45:30,145 Cheese will be fine. 499 00:45:31,805 --> 00:45:33,857 That's very kind of you. 500 00:45:41,231 --> 00:45:46,320 Mr Halbestadt, what was it like, living under National Socialism? 501 00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:53,541 - What was it like? - Yes. I mean, uh... day-to-day? 502 00:45:53,660 --> 00:45:56,424 I know many people at home like you. 503 00:45:56,538 --> 00:45:59,635 You're good people. I believe that. 504 00:46:00,750 --> 00:46:03,633 What was it like for you, living under Hitler? 505 00:46:03,753 --> 00:46:07,680 We were not political. Mr Halbestadt and I are not political. 506 00:46:07,799 --> 00:46:10,100 - Ein Glas fur die Milch, bitte. - Ja. 507 00:46:10,302 --> 00:46:16,602 No, but you must have been aware of some of the events that were going on. 508 00:46:18,518 --> 00:46:20,938 Many things were going on, Mr Halbestadt. 509 00:46:21,062 --> 00:46:23,482 There were parades. 510 00:46:24,316 --> 00:46:28,159 Hitler and Goebbels came here every year. 511 00:46:28,778 --> 00:46:30,830 What was it like? 512 00:46:31,364 --> 00:46:34,461 We never attended meetings. Never. 513 00:46:35,368 --> 00:46:38,583 I'm not trying to put you on trial. I'm just, uh... 514 00:46:38,705 --> 00:46:41,386 I'm just curious. I'd like to know. 515 00:46:41,499 --> 00:46:44,714 - Here's your sandwich, Your Honour. - Thank you. 516 00:46:44,836 --> 00:46:46,888 You're welcome. 517 00:46:47,005 --> 00:46:49,057 Thank you. 518 00:46:51,635 --> 00:46:56,854 For instance, there was a place called Dachau not too many miles from here. 519 00:46:56,973 --> 00:47:00,604 Did you ever know what was going on there? 520 00:47:00,727 --> 00:47:04,321 We knew nothing about it. Nothing about it. 521 00:47:05,607 --> 00:47:11,124 How can you ask if we know anything about that? 522 00:47:12,447 --> 00:47:14,748 I'm sorry. 523 00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:19,541 Your Honour, we are only little people. 524 00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:23,625 We lost a son in the army 525 00:47:24,876 --> 00:47:27,806 and our daughter in the bombing. 526 00:47:29,005 --> 00:47:31,888 During the war we almost starved. 527 00:47:33,093 --> 00:47:35,228 It was terrible for us. 528 00:47:36,555 --> 00:47:38,642 I'm sure it was. 529 00:47:40,267 --> 00:47:44,608 Hitler... Hitler did some good things. 530 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,074 I won't say he didn't do some good things. 531 00:47:49,192 --> 00:47:53,867 He built the autobahn. He gave more people work. 532 00:47:54,656 --> 00:47:58,203 We won't say he didn't do some good things. 533 00:47:59,244 --> 00:48:01,794 But the other things... 534 00:48:02,706 --> 00:48:07,712 The things they say he did to the Jews and the rest, we knew nothing about that. 535 00:48:07,836 --> 00:48:09,888 Very few Germans did. 536 00:48:12,090 --> 00:48:14,938 And if we did know... 537 00:48:16,052 --> 00:48:18,271 what could we do? 538 00:48:18,388 --> 00:48:20,892 But Mrs Halbestadt said you didn't know. 539 00:48:26,897 --> 00:48:30,243 Mrs Bertholt, how did she react to all this? 540 00:48:30,942 --> 00:48:34,454 Ah, Madame Bertholt is a very fine woman, Your Honour. 541 00:48:34,571 --> 00:48:37,869 I'm sure she is. What about her husband? 542 00:48:39,868 --> 00:48:42,087 He was in the army. 543 00:48:42,203 --> 00:48:44,256 What happened to him? 544 00:48:45,498 --> 00:48:49,758 He was one of the defendants in the Malmedy case. 545 00:48:53,006 --> 00:48:57,016 General Bertholt. Karl Bertholt. 546 00:48:58,553 --> 00:49:01,187 He was executed, Your Honour. 547 00:49:02,974 --> 00:49:05,026 Yes, I know that. 548 00:49:08,855 --> 00:49:12,034 The document then states that the photographer Rudolf Lenz 549 00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:14,701 is requested to present himself within two weeks 550 00:49:14,819 --> 00:49:20,419 at one of the hospitals mentioned below for "medical treatment". 551 00:49:21,326 --> 00:49:24,754 Next, prosecution presents affidavit document no.488, 552 00:49:24,871 --> 00:49:27,837 which concerns the seamstress Anni Münch. 553 00:49:27,958 --> 00:49:30,093 Document reads as follows: 554 00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:33,556 "District court Frankfurt am Main has decided the following: 555 00:49:33,672 --> 00:49:37,764 the seamstress Anni Münch, daughter of Wilhelm Münch, is to be sterilised." 556 00:49:37,884 --> 00:49:40,814 "She is requested to present herself within two weeks 557 00:49:40,929 --> 00:49:43,432 at one of the hospitals mentioned below." 558 00:49:43,557 --> 00:49:49,156 "if she does not take herself voluntarily, she will be taken by force." 559 00:49:49,271 --> 00:49:54,823 Next, document no.449, interrogatories in the German and English text, 560 00:49:54,943 --> 00:49:57,660 concerning the farmer's helper Meyer Eichinger. 561 00:49:57,779 --> 00:49:59,831 - Your Honour. - What? 562 00:50:02,909 --> 00:50:06,753 Defence objects to introduction of these repetitive documents. 563 00:50:06,871 --> 00:50:09,755 According to the ruling of the first tribunal, 564 00:50:09,874 --> 00:50:12,010 such documents are not even admissible 565 00:50:12,127 --> 00:50:17,300 unless supported by independent evidence of their authenticity. 566 00:50:17,424 --> 00:50:19,096 Objection sustained. 567 00:50:20,677 --> 00:50:23,809 Your Honour, may I ask the defence a question? 568 00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:25,318 Yes. 569 00:50:25,432 --> 00:50:31,648 Would evidence on sterilisation be admissible if there were a witness? 570 00:50:40,196 --> 00:50:42,249 - Yes. - Thank you. 571 00:50:43,408 --> 00:50:47,121 Prosecution calls the witness Rudolf Petersen. 572 00:51:10,936 --> 00:51:13,486 Will you raise your right hand? 573 00:51:13,605 --> 00:51:15,491 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 574 00:51:15,607 --> 00:51:19,285 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 575 00:51:19,402 --> 00:51:21,454 Yes, I do. 576 00:51:37,921 --> 00:51:41,801 Will you please tell the court your full name and place of residence. 577 00:51:43,051 --> 00:51:48,438 Rudolf Petersen. Frankfurt am Main. Gretweg, Nummer sieben. 578 00:51:48,598 --> 00:51:51,149 When were you born, Mr Petersen? 579 00:51:51,268 --> 00:51:53,901 May 20, 1914. 580 00:51:54,020 --> 00:51:57,034 And what is your occupation? 581 00:51:57,148 --> 00:52:00,696 Baker's helper. I'm a baker's helper. 582 00:52:01,027 --> 00:52:03,578 Are your parents living? 583 00:52:04,447 --> 00:52:06,499 No. 584 00:52:06,658 --> 00:52:09,837 What were the causes of their deaths? 585 00:52:13,373 --> 00:52:17,169 Mr Petersen, did they die of natural causes? 586 00:52:17,294 --> 00:52:19,548 Ja, ja. Ja. Natural. 587 00:52:21,214 --> 00:52:26,648 Now, Mr Petersen, what political party did your father belong to? 588 00:52:26,761 --> 00:52:30,273 Communist. The Communist Party. 589 00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:32,229 Uh-huh. 590 00:52:32,350 --> 00:52:34,770 Now, think back. 591 00:52:36,104 --> 00:52:42,534 Do you remember anything unusual that happened to you and your family in 1933, 592 00:52:42,652 --> 00:52:45,618 before the Nazis came to power? 593 00:52:45,739 --> 00:52:49,416 I mean anything of a violent nature. 594 00:52:49,534 --> 00:52:51,835 Ja, ja. 595 00:52:51,953 --> 00:52:54,919 - How old were you at the time? - 19. 596 00:52:56,166 --> 00:53:00,046 Would you please tell the court what happened? 597 00:53:00,170 --> 00:53:03,053 Uh... some... 598 00:53:03,173 --> 00:53:06,886 Some SA men broke into the house, our house, 599 00:53:08,094 --> 00:53:11,891 and they broke the windows and the door. 600 00:53:13,141 --> 00:53:15,193 They called us traitors 601 00:53:16,102 --> 00:53:21,192 and they tried to... to beat up my father. 602 00:53:22,108 --> 00:53:24,160 And what happened then? 603 00:53:24,277 --> 00:53:27,456 My brothers and I, we went to help him. 604 00:53:28,615 --> 00:53:31,249 And there was a fight. 605 00:53:31,368 --> 00:53:35,211 Finally we got them outside in the street 606 00:53:35,330 --> 00:53:37,667 and we beat them up, 607 00:53:38,124 --> 00:53:41,090 and turned them over to the police. 608 00:53:41,544 --> 00:53:44,724 - Did the police do anything about it? - No. 609 00:53:44,839 --> 00:53:46,227 Why not? 610 00:53:46,341 --> 00:53:52,522 It was then at the time of the national elections. 611 00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:56,435 - The National Socialists came to power? - Ja. 612 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,612 Now, Mr Petersen, 613 00:53:59,396 --> 00:54:05,328 what happened after 1933, after the Nazis came to power? 614 00:54:06,611 --> 00:54:09,494 I got a job on a farm, 615 00:54:09,614 --> 00:54:14,004 but for the work, to drive a truck it was necessary. 616 00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:19,378 I went to the city building to apply for a license. 617 00:54:19,666 --> 00:54:22,086 And what happened there? 618 00:54:22,210 --> 00:54:25,224 They took me to an official. 619 00:54:26,881 --> 00:54:31,390 Did you ever have any dealings with this official before? 620 00:54:31,511 --> 00:54:37,277 He was one of the men who broke into our house that night. 621 00:54:38,226 --> 00:54:41,904 What did he say to your application? 622 00:54:42,022 --> 00:54:46,577 He said an examination there would have to be. 623 00:54:46,693 --> 00:54:50,074 Where was the examination to take place? 624 00:54:50,196 --> 00:54:53,708 In the district court of Stuttgart. 625 00:54:53,825 --> 00:54:57,538 Who was the presiding justice in the court? 626 00:55:00,290 --> 00:55:02,971 Justice Hofstetter. 627 00:55:04,294 --> 00:55:07,806 Now, what happened in the courtroom? 628 00:55:07,923 --> 00:55:13,641 They asked me my full name and so forth. 629 00:55:14,554 --> 00:55:16,809 What else did they ask you? 630 00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:23,116 They asked me when Adolf Hitler and Dr Goebbels were born. 631 00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:25,863 What did you reply? 632 00:55:25,982 --> 00:55:31,285 I told them I didn't know, and also that I didn't care. 633 00:55:37,244 --> 00:55:40,506 Did they ask you any more questions? 634 00:55:41,081 --> 00:55:45,589 No. They told me that I would be hearing from them in ten days. 635 00:55:45,710 --> 00:55:48,047 I see. 636 00:55:48,171 --> 00:55:50,425 Mr Petersen, 637 00:55:51,258 --> 00:55:54,141 I'd like you to look at something. 638 00:56:06,439 --> 00:56:09,572 - Do you recognise it? - Ja. 639 00:56:09,693 --> 00:56:13,287 Would you please read it for the tribunal? 640 00:56:14,906 --> 00:56:18,963 "District court of Stuttgart." 641 00:56:19,077 --> 00:56:23,502 "The baker Rudolf Petersen, born May 20th 1914, 642 00:56:23,623 --> 00:56:27,764 son of railway employee Hans Petersen, 643 00:56:28,670 --> 00:56:33,807 is to be sterilised." 644 00:56:34,801 --> 00:56:37,387 Would you read the last paragraph? 645 00:56:42,017 --> 00:56:48,743 "It is therefore requested he present himself within two weeks 646 00:56:48,857 --> 00:56:52,451 to one of the hospitals mentioned below." 647 00:56:53,361 --> 00:57:00,670 "if he does not betake himself voluntarily, 648 00:57:02,203 --> 00:57:04,458 he will be taken by force." 649 00:57:08,668 --> 00:57:11,386 Now please read the signature at the bottom. 650 00:57:14,633 --> 00:57:17,646 "Presiding Justice Hofstetter." 651 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,902 Would you read what is written below the signature? 652 00:57:25,769 --> 00:57:28,023 - Below? - Below. 653 00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:34,330 "By authority of Ernst Janning, 654 00:57:36,071 --> 00:57:38,918 Minister of Justice." 655 00:57:41,117 --> 00:57:43,169 Your Honour, 656 00:57:45,497 --> 00:57:49,210 may the defence see the file of Mr Petersen? 657 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,721 What did you do after you received the letter, Mr Petersen? 658 00:57:53,838 --> 00:57:58,643 I ran away. I stayed at the farm of a friend I have. 659 00:57:59,511 --> 00:58:02,228 And did you return? 660 00:58:02,347 --> 00:58:04,434 - Did I what? - Did you return? 661 00:58:05,016 --> 00:58:06,440 Yes. 662 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,612 And what happened then? 663 00:58:09,604 --> 00:58:13,661 The police came. The police came. 664 00:58:13,775 --> 00:58:19,707 - Where did they take you? - To the hospital. 665 00:58:20,657 --> 00:58:25,663 Mr Petersen. Excuse me, I wonder if you could speak a little louder, please. 666 00:58:27,038 --> 00:58:29,090 To the hospital. 667 00:58:29,207 --> 00:58:34,213 - What happened at the hospital? - They kept me there. 668 00:58:34,337 --> 00:58:37,719 The nurse who was... 669 00:58:39,509 --> 00:58:41,680 Well, she came in anyway. 670 00:58:41,803 --> 00:58:44,935 She was to prepare me for the operation. 671 00:58:45,056 --> 00:58:49,695 And she said she thought the whole thing was terrible. 672 00:58:50,645 --> 00:58:57,076 And then the doctor came in, who was supposed to do the... 673 00:58:59,237 --> 00:59:02,749 and he said he thought it was awful. 674 00:59:04,534 --> 00:59:07,963 Were you in fact sterilised? 675 00:59:16,755 --> 00:59:19,223 Thank you very much, Mr Petersen. 676 00:59:20,634 --> 00:59:21,927 That's all. 677 00:59:24,221 --> 00:59:26,273 Herr Rolfe. 678 00:59:36,107 --> 00:59:38,159 Mr Petersen, 679 00:59:39,819 --> 00:59:43,995 you may take your earphones off now, if you want to. 680 00:59:50,247 --> 00:59:55,466 Mr Petersen, you say you work as a baker's helper? Is that correct? 681 00:59:55,585 --> 00:59:57,637 Yes, that is right. 682 00:59:59,256 --> 01:00:01,676 What other occupations have you held? 683 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,350 I have worked for my father. 684 01:00:05,303 --> 01:00:09,894 - What did your father do? - He was a railroad worker. 685 01:00:10,016 --> 01:00:13,030 Yes, but what did he do? 686 01:00:13,144 --> 01:00:22,114 He would raise and lower the barrier at the crossing for traffic. 687 01:00:25,699 --> 01:00:28,712 And you spoke about your brothers. 688 01:00:28,827 --> 01:00:32,754 - How many brothers do you have? - Five. 689 01:00:32,872 --> 01:00:35,590 - And sisters? - Four. 690 01:00:35,709 --> 01:00:38,806 - Then you are a family of ten? - Yes. 691 01:00:41,131 --> 01:00:44,061 What occupations do your brothers have? 692 01:00:44,175 --> 01:00:46,560 Labourers. 693 01:00:46,678 --> 01:00:48,730 All labourers? 694 01:00:48,972 --> 01:00:51,024 I see. 695 01:00:51,641 --> 01:00:56,113 Mr Petersen, you said the court at Stuttgart asked you two questions, 696 01:00:56,229 --> 01:00:58,365 the birth dates of Hitler and Dr Goebbels. 697 01:00:58,481 --> 01:01:01,827 - Is that correct? - Yes. Correct. 698 01:01:01,943 --> 01:01:04,079 What else did they ask you? 699 01:01:04,195 --> 01:01:06,414 Uh... 700 01:01:06,531 --> 01:01:09,212 Nothing else. 701 01:01:09,326 --> 01:01:11,378 Are you sure? 702 01:01:11,494 --> 01:01:14,793 Are you sure there were no questions about your schooling? 703 01:01:14,915 --> 01:01:16,967 Objection! 704 01:01:17,083 --> 01:01:21,010 The witness has already answered that question. 705 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,892 Objection sustained. 706 01:01:31,181 --> 01:01:34,894 May I ask you, Mr Petersen... 707 01:01:38,647 --> 01:01:40,699 may I ask you... 708 01:01:43,568 --> 01:01:46,072 how long did you attend school? 709 01:01:46,196 --> 01:01:50,502 - Six years. - Six years. Why not longer? 710 01:01:52,035 --> 01:01:53,874 I had to go to work. 711 01:01:53,995 --> 01:01:59,168 Would you consider yourself a very bright fellow at school? 712 01:01:59,292 --> 01:02:02,638 School? It was... 713 01:02:02,754 --> 01:02:06,301 It was a long while ago. I don't... 714 01:02:06,424 --> 01:02:09,557 Perhaps you were not able to keep up with the others 715 01:02:09,678 --> 01:02:11,730 and that's why you did not continue? 716 01:02:11,846 --> 01:02:13,982 Objection, Your Honour. 717 01:02:14,099 --> 01:02:17,563 The witness' school record has no bearing on what happened to him. 718 01:02:17,686 --> 01:02:23,320 It was the task of the health court to sterilise the mentally incompetent. 719 01:02:26,361 --> 01:02:28,413 Objection overruled. 720 01:02:34,452 --> 01:02:40,669 Were you able or were you not able to keep up with the others? 721 01:02:46,631 --> 01:02:51,057 I would like to refer to the efficiency report from the school about Mr Petersen. 722 01:02:51,177 --> 01:02:57,275 He failed to be promoted and was placed in a class of backward children. 723 01:03:00,395 --> 01:03:04,357 You say your parents died of natural causes. 724 01:03:04,482 --> 01:03:05,775 Yes. 725 01:03:05,901 --> 01:03:09,412 Would you describe in detail the illness your mother died of? 726 01:03:09,529 --> 01:03:11,581 She died of her heart. 727 01:03:12,699 --> 01:03:17,005 In the last stages of her illness, did your mother show any... 728 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,050 mental peculiarities? 729 01:03:20,165 --> 01:03:23,427 Mental... No. No. 730 01:03:25,045 --> 01:03:27,299 In the decision that came from Stuttgart, 731 01:03:27,422 --> 01:03:31,100 it is stated that your mother suffered from hereditary feeble-mindedness. 732 01:03:31,217 --> 01:03:33,768 That is not... That is not true. 733 01:03:33,887 --> 01:03:35,809 Not true, not true. 734 01:03:37,432 --> 01:03:40,066 Can you give us some clarification as to how 735 01:03:40,185 --> 01:03:44,147 the Hereditary Health Court in Stuttgart arrived at that decision? 736 01:03:44,272 --> 01:03:49,160 It was just something they said to put me on the operating table. 737 01:03:49,277 --> 01:03:51,958 - It was just something they said? - Yes! 738 01:03:52,864 --> 01:03:59,460 Mr Petersen, there was a simple test that the Health Court used to ask 739 01:03:59,579 --> 01:04:02,545 in all cases of mental incompetence. 740 01:04:02,666 --> 01:04:05,798 Since you say they did not ask you then, 741 01:04:05,919 --> 01:04:08,553 perhaps you can answer it for us now? 742 01:04:08,672 --> 01:04:12,349 Form a sentence out of the words "hare", "hunter", "field". 743 01:04:12,467 --> 01:04:14,638 Your Honour! Objection! 744 01:04:19,683 --> 01:04:21,735 Mr Petersen, 745 01:04:23,311 --> 01:04:27,950 was the court in Stuttgart constituted like this one? 746 01:04:29,067 --> 01:04:31,653 I don't understand what... 747 01:04:31,778 --> 01:04:34,329 Was there an audience? 748 01:04:34,781 --> 01:04:36,869 An audience? Yes, yes. 749 01:04:37,784 --> 01:04:39,836 Thank you. 750 01:04:42,330 --> 01:04:44,382 Objection overruled. 751 01:04:46,126 --> 01:04:51,892 Hare, hunter, field, Mr Petersen. 752 01:04:54,676 --> 01:04:56,728 Take your time. 753 01:04:58,638 --> 01:05:00,975 Hare, hunter, field. Uh... 754 01:05:03,727 --> 01:05:06,230 Hare, 755 01:05:06,354 --> 01:05:08,406 hunter... 756 01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:13,498 They had already made up... 757 01:05:14,529 --> 01:05:17,661 When I walked into the court, they had made up their minds. 758 01:05:17,782 --> 01:05:20,879 They had made up their minds! 759 01:05:20,994 --> 01:05:24,422 They put me in the hospital, like a criminal. 760 01:05:24,539 --> 01:05:29,178 I could not say anything, I could not do anything. I... 761 01:05:30,754 --> 01:05:32,806 I had to lie there. 762 01:05:35,342 --> 01:05:38,106 My... my mother... 763 01:05:39,221 --> 01:05:41,273 what you say about her. 764 01:05:41,389 --> 01:05:45,186 She was a woman, a servant woman, who worked hard. 765 01:05:45,310 --> 01:05:47,362 She was a hardworking woman. 766 01:05:47,479 --> 01:05:51,275 And it is not fair... not fair... what you say. 767 01:05:57,197 --> 01:05:59,249 I have it here. 768 01:06:00,325 --> 01:06:04,548 I want to show you. I have here her picture. 769 01:06:05,372 --> 01:06:08,052 I would like you looked at it. 770 01:06:19,386 --> 01:06:22,103 I would like you to judge. 771 01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,697 I want that you tell me, 772 01:06:27,811 --> 01:06:31,405 was she feeble-minded? 773 01:06:32,399 --> 01:06:34,451 My mother! 774 01:06:35,735 --> 01:06:37,787 Was she feeble-minded? 775 01:06:40,365 --> 01:06:42,121 Was she? 776 01:06:52,210 --> 01:06:56,172 I feel it is my duty to point out to the tribunal 777 01:06:56,298 --> 01:06:59,430 that the witness is not in control of his mental processes. 778 01:07:00,802 --> 01:07:02,724 I know I'm not. 779 01:07:02,846 --> 01:07:04,898 Since that day, 780 01:07:06,057 --> 01:07:09,854 I've been half I've ever been. 781 01:07:17,527 --> 01:07:21,454 The tribunal does not know how you were before. 782 01:07:21,573 --> 01:07:26,247 It can never know. It has only your word. 783 01:07:48,308 --> 01:07:50,360 Court is adjourned. 784 01:08:02,322 --> 01:08:05,003 That's one problem we have with the prosecution... 785 01:08:05,116 --> 01:08:08,249 it's filled with young radicals like Lawson. 786 01:08:08,370 --> 01:08:10,754 Is that what Lawson is? A young radical? 787 01:08:10,872 --> 01:08:13,921 Well, he was a personal protégé of FDR. 788 01:08:14,042 --> 01:08:17,174 FDR had a few friends who weren't radicals, didn't he? 789 01:08:17,295 --> 01:08:19,763 Name one. 790 01:08:19,881 --> 01:08:22,645 - Wendell Wilkie. - Wilkie. 791 01:08:22,759 --> 01:08:25,808 Is he your idea of a conservative? 792 01:08:25,929 --> 01:08:30,022 As a matter of fact, Dan, I've been wondering how you stand? 793 01:08:30,141 --> 01:08:34,567 I'll clarify that for you, Curtiss. I'm a rock-ribbed Republican 794 01:08:34,688 --> 01:08:38,034 who thought that Franklin Roosevelt was a great man. 795 01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:40,653 Oh. One of those. 796 01:08:43,530 --> 01:08:45,452 Max! 797 01:08:45,574 --> 01:08:48,338 - Max Perkins. Do you know him? - I don't think so. 798 01:08:48,451 --> 01:08:50,788 He's with the United Press. 799 01:08:54,374 --> 01:08:58,515 - Max, what are you doing here? - I thought you might kick up a row. 800 01:08:58,628 --> 01:09:00,883 I haven't had that much to drink. 801 01:09:01,006 --> 01:09:03,307 - Oh, I'm sorry. This is Judge Ives. - Hello. 802 01:09:03,425 --> 01:09:05,181 - Mrs Ives. - How do you do? 803 01:09:05,302 --> 01:09:07,638 - How do you do? - Judge Haywood, Mrs Bertholt. 804 01:09:07,762 --> 01:09:10,099 - We have met. - Yes, we have. 805 01:09:10,223 --> 01:09:14,185 - Won't you join us for a drink? - We would like to very much. 806 01:09:14,311 --> 01:09:17,028 - Max, will you sit here? - Thank you. 807 01:09:17,147 --> 01:09:21,489 Incidentally, Max, I admired your article on Mrs Bertholt very much. 808 01:09:21,610 --> 01:09:25,536 It was straight reporting. Her defence of her husband was quite eloquent. 809 01:09:25,655 --> 01:09:28,040 Are you going to do a story on these trials? 810 01:09:28,325 --> 01:09:30,661 I'll tell you something frankly, Judge. 811 01:09:30,785 --> 01:09:34,463 At the moment I couldn't give a story away on the Nuremberg trials. 812 01:09:34,581 --> 01:09:38,638 - What do you mean, Mr Perkins? - The American public isn't interested. 813 01:09:38,752 --> 01:09:41,931 The war's only been over two years, Mr Perkins. 814 01:09:42,047 --> 01:09:43,719 That's right. 815 01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,889 - May I take your order? - Yes. See what the ladies will have. 816 01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:50,356 - How about some more beer, Dan? - No, I think I've had my fill of beer. 817 01:09:50,472 --> 01:09:52,559 I'd like to try something else, if I may. 818 01:09:52,682 --> 01:09:57,024 Why don't you try some Sonnenberg or Schwalbenwinkel? It's the local wine. 819 01:09:57,145 --> 01:09:59,993 - Sonnenberg or...? - Schwalbenwinkel. 820 01:10:00,106 --> 01:10:04,199 Yes, I think I'd like that. Some Schwalbenwinkel. 821 01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:06,787 - Will you have some? - Yes, thank you. 822 01:10:06,905 --> 01:10:09,539 - Shall we stay with the beer, Max? - Fine. 823 01:10:09,658 --> 01:10:11,460 Thank you. 824 01:10:11,576 --> 01:10:14,874 - You got home all right the other night? - Yes, thank you. 825 01:10:14,996 --> 01:10:18,793 I don't know what I would have done without the car. 826 01:10:18,917 --> 01:10:21,634 You speak English very well, Mrs Bertholt. 827 01:10:21,753 --> 01:10:23,011 Thank you. 828 01:10:23,129 --> 01:10:26,842 My husband and I spent two years in America. 829 01:10:29,094 --> 01:10:33,234 I hope you've had a chance to see something of Nuremberg. 830 01:10:33,348 --> 01:10:38,983 I'm afraid mainly the road between my house and the Palace of Justice. 831 01:10:39,104 --> 01:10:43,529 And then some places that have to do with the case, historical aspects. 832 01:10:43,650 --> 01:10:48,241 The Nazi aspects. You should see some of the other parts of Nuremberg. 833 01:10:48,363 --> 01:10:51,661 There are many beautiful things to see in the old part of town, 834 01:10:51,783 --> 01:10:53,835 museums we're trying to rebuild. 835 01:10:53,952 --> 01:10:58,211 And there's a concert, a piano concert, next week at the old opera house. 836 01:10:58,331 --> 01:11:02,591 Arthur Reiss. He was a refugee from Hitler in the early days. 837 01:11:02,711 --> 01:11:06,638 We've persuaded him to come back. It ought to be quite an evening. 838 01:11:06,756 --> 01:11:11,016 - Would you like to come? - Yes, I would. 839 01:11:11,136 --> 01:11:15,228 I'll have them leave a ticket for you at the box office. I'm on the committee. 840 01:11:15,348 --> 01:11:18,066 - Thank you very much, Mrs Bertholt. - It's nothing. 841 01:11:18,184 --> 01:11:22,064 I have a mission with the Americans, as Mr Perkins can tell you. 842 01:11:22,188 --> 01:11:24,525 Oh? What is that? 843 01:11:24,649 --> 01:11:28,706 To convince you that we're not all monsters. 844 01:11:31,781 --> 01:11:35,578 - Good evening, Colonel. - Colonel, Major Radnitz. 845 01:11:35,702 --> 01:11:38,170 Good evening, Mrs Bertholt. 846 01:11:41,082 --> 01:11:43,419 - I hope you'll excuse me. - You've just come. 847 01:11:43,543 --> 01:11:45,595 No, I must go. Please excuse me. 848 01:11:45,712 --> 01:11:47,764 It was awfully nice meeting you. 849 01:11:47,881 --> 01:11:50,930 There will be a concert ticket for you at the box office. 850 01:11:51,051 --> 01:11:52,094 Thank you. 851 01:11:52,219 --> 01:11:53,939 - Good night. - Good night. 852 01:11:54,054 --> 01:11:56,273 - Good night. - Good night, Mrs Bertholt. 853 01:11:59,726 --> 01:12:01,696 Huh. 854 01:12:01,811 --> 01:12:06,402 Mrs Bertholt doesn't hold a burning passion for me. 855 01:12:07,442 --> 01:12:10,123 I prosecuted her husband. 856 01:12:11,112 --> 01:12:14,458 Many people think a death sentence would not have been passed 857 01:12:14,574 --> 01:12:16,544 against General Bertholt today. 858 01:12:16,660 --> 01:12:19,210 I'm sure they do. 859 01:12:19,329 --> 01:12:21,548 I'm sure there are people who think 860 01:12:21,665 --> 01:12:24,879 all the prisoners in Nuremberg should be free today. 861 01:12:25,001 --> 01:12:27,053 All of them! Let's... 862 01:12:28,046 --> 01:12:29,802 Excuse me. 863 01:12:29,923 --> 01:12:31,975 I've had, uh... 864 01:12:32,092 --> 01:12:37,525 I've had one or two too many, as might be painfully obvious to you gentlemen. 865 01:12:37,639 --> 01:12:42,029 The spectacle this afternoon with Mr Petersen put me off my feed. I'm sorry. 866 01:12:42,143 --> 01:12:46,319 Three beers and Schwalbenwinkel, please. 867 01:12:50,193 --> 01:12:52,779 Prosit. Prosit. 868 01:12:52,904 --> 01:12:56,582 - Schwalbenwinkel. - Schwalbenwinkel. 869 01:12:56,700 --> 01:13:01,125 Yes, it's good beer. They make it good in this country. 870 01:13:01,246 --> 01:13:03,049 You know... 871 01:13:03,164 --> 01:13:07,471 You know, there's one thing about Americans. 872 01:13:07,586 --> 01:13:10,054 We're not cut out to be occupiers. 873 01:13:10,171 --> 01:13:13,137 We're new at it and we're not very good at it. 874 01:13:13,258 --> 01:13:16,355 We come over here, and what do we see? 875 01:13:17,304 --> 01:13:19,688 We see this beautiful country. 876 01:13:19,806 --> 01:13:22,855 It is beautiful. It's very beautiful. 877 01:13:22,976 --> 01:13:26,025 We see the culture that goes back for hundreds of years. 878 01:13:26,146 --> 01:13:28,945 We see its gemütlich charm, 879 01:13:29,065 --> 01:13:33,288 and the charm of people like, uh... Mrs Bertholt. 880 01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:36,788 We got a built-in inferiority complex. 881 01:13:36,907 --> 01:13:39,706 We forgive and forget easy. 882 01:13:39,826 --> 01:13:45,924 We give the other guy the benefit of the doubt... that's the American way. 883 01:13:46,041 --> 01:13:51,095 We beat the greatest war machine since Alexander the Great 884 01:13:51,212 --> 01:13:54,143 and now the boy scouts take over. 885 01:13:55,008 --> 01:13:58,888 The trouble with you, Colonel, is you'd like to indict the whole country. 886 01:13:59,012 --> 01:14:01,516 That might be emotionally satisfying to you, 887 01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,021 but it wouldn't be exactly practical, and hardly fair. 888 01:14:06,394 --> 01:14:08,446 Hardly fair? 889 01:14:10,941 --> 01:14:13,277 "Hare", 890 01:14:13,401 --> 01:14:15,786 "hunter", 891 01:14:15,904 --> 01:14:17,956 "field". 892 01:14:18,907 --> 01:14:21,375 That's right, let's be fair. 893 01:14:22,077 --> 01:14:25,624 The hare was shot by the hunter in the field. 894 01:14:25,747 --> 01:14:28,084 It's really quite simple. 895 01:14:29,584 --> 01:14:31,174 Uh... 896 01:14:31,294 --> 01:14:34,888 Colonel, I think we ought to be going. 897 01:14:35,006 --> 01:14:37,142 Yes. We shouldn't be discussing this. 898 01:14:37,259 --> 01:14:41,102 Oh, no, Judge we're fair Americans, and true blue. 899 01:14:41,221 --> 01:14:43,606 We mustn't do anything that's out of order. 900 01:14:43,723 --> 01:14:47,235 We can't do anything that's out of order. 901 01:14:50,146 --> 01:14:54,655 There are no Nazis in Germany. Didn't you know that, Judge? 902 01:14:54,776 --> 01:14:57,410 The Eskimos invaded Germany and took over. 903 01:14:57,529 --> 01:15:00,459 That's how all those terrible things happened. 904 01:15:00,574 --> 01:15:05,711 It wasn't the fault of the Germans, it was the fault of those damn Eskimos! 905 01:15:07,539 --> 01:15:10,837 Excuse me. Excuse me. 906 01:15:10,959 --> 01:15:14,222 - Good night, Colonel. - Good night. 907 01:15:27,475 --> 01:15:30,904 Can I have your attention? Sorry to interrupt your dancing. 908 01:15:31,021 --> 01:15:34,734 The following officers are requested to report to their units. 909 01:15:34,858 --> 01:15:38,654 Major McCarthy, Major Citron, Major Cantor, 910 01:15:38,862 --> 01:15:41,365 Captain Byers, Captain Connell, 911 01:15:41,489 --> 01:15:47,291 Captain Douglas, Captain Wolfe, Major Booth and Major Rice. 912 01:15:47,412 --> 01:15:50,627 Thank you. You can continue dancing. 913 01:15:53,209 --> 01:15:57,350 - Harry! What is it? - The Russians are in Czechoslovakia. 914 01:15:57,464 --> 01:16:01,141 Masaryk may have committed suicide. We're sending some units over. 915 01:16:01,259 --> 01:16:03,395 What do you think will happen? 916 01:16:03,511 --> 01:16:05,564 I don't know, sir. 917 01:16:08,475 --> 01:16:10,562 Oh, Judge Haywood. 918 01:16:12,145 --> 01:16:14,197 Elsa Scheffler. 919 01:16:14,397 --> 01:16:16,449 Guten Abend. 920 01:16:17,609 --> 01:16:19,661 Guten Abend. 921 01:16:22,447 --> 01:16:27,453 "President Truman responded by calling for an extension of military training." 922 01:16:27,577 --> 01:16:32,168 "He stated that he is deeply concerned with the survival of the Western nations 923 01:16:32,290 --> 01:16:35,220 in face of the threat from the east." 924 01:16:35,335 --> 01:16:37,174 "Threat from the east." 925 01:16:37,295 --> 01:16:41,352 Herr Janning, did you hear what is in the paper? 926 01:16:41,466 --> 01:16:45,808 Exactly what Hitler said: "The clash for survival between east and west." 927 01:16:45,929 --> 01:16:48,148 Ah, he knew. He knew! 928 01:16:48,265 --> 01:16:52,026 They'll see that we knew exactly what we were doing all the time. 929 01:16:52,143 --> 01:16:56,403 They cannot call us criminals and at the same time ask us to help them. 930 01:16:56,523 --> 01:17:01,696 We must stand together now. The most crucial part of this case is coming up. 931 01:17:01,820 --> 01:17:04,667 We have fallen on happy times, Herr Hahn. 932 01:17:04,781 --> 01:17:07,035 In the old times it would have made your day 933 01:17:07,158 --> 01:17:09,460 if I deigned to say "Good morning" to you. 934 01:17:09,578 --> 01:17:12,081 Now that we are here in this place together, 935 01:17:12,205 --> 01:17:15,420 you feel obliged to tell me what to do with my life. 936 01:17:15,542 --> 01:17:17,594 Herr Janning, you must stand with us. 937 01:17:17,711 --> 01:17:23,393 It is not good for Germans to turn on one another. We have a common ground now. 938 01:17:23,508 --> 01:17:25,478 Listen to me, Herr Hahn. 939 01:17:25,594 --> 01:17:28,524 Terrible things have happened to me in my life. 940 01:17:28,638 --> 01:17:30,857 But the worst thing that has ever happened 941 01:17:30,974 --> 01:17:33,939 is to find myself in the company of men like you. 942 01:17:34,060 --> 01:17:36,825 I have nothing in common with you and the party hacks. 943 01:17:36,938 --> 01:17:40,367 You have something in common... you were part of the same regime. 944 01:17:40,483 --> 01:17:42,987 You stood by that regime, like the rest of us. 945 01:17:43,111 --> 01:17:46,290 And there is something else you have in common: 946 01:17:46,406 --> 01:17:48,458 you are a German. 947 01:19:21,710 --> 01:19:26,135 - Good evening. Did you like it? - Yes, I did. Very much indeed. 948 01:19:26,256 --> 01:19:29,056 - Can I drop you? - I only live a few blocks from here. 949 01:19:29,175 --> 01:19:32,687 I was going to walk. Would you like to go for a walk? 950 01:19:32,804 --> 01:19:34,015 Yes. Yes, I would. 951 01:19:34,139 --> 01:19:37,188 I won't need the car now. I'll walk with Mrs Bertholt. 952 01:19:37,309 --> 01:19:39,361 - Shall I wait for you? - No, no. 953 01:19:39,477 --> 01:19:42,158 I'll wait for you, Your Honour. 954 01:19:48,153 --> 01:19:51,083 Vor einem großen Tor 955 01:19:51,197 --> 01:19:54,460 Steht' ne Laterne 956 01:19:54,576 --> 01:19:57,673 Und steht sie noch davor 957 01:19:57,787 --> 01:20:03,636 Da wollen wir uns wiederseh'n 958 01:20:03,752 --> 01:20:10,015 Bei der Laterne woll'n wir steh'n 959 01:20:10,133 --> 01:20:15,732 Wie einst Lili Marleen 960 01:20:15,847 --> 01:20:17,650 Wie einst... 961 01:20:17,766 --> 01:20:21,562 The German people love to sing, no matter what the situation. 962 01:20:21,686 --> 01:20:23,738 I've noticed that. 963 01:20:24,731 --> 01:20:29,619 Do American people sing in bars, too? I've forgotten. 964 01:20:29,736 --> 01:20:33,248 No. We're apt to be pretty sullen in bars. 965 01:20:35,492 --> 01:20:41,044 Und alle Leute soll'n es seh'n 966 01:20:41,748 --> 01:20:43,800 Wenn wir... 967 01:20:44,626 --> 01:20:47,556 I wish you understood German. 968 01:20:47,671 --> 01:20:51,099 The words are very beautiful. Very sad. 969 01:20:52,217 --> 01:20:54,981 Much sadder than the English words. 970 01:20:55,512 --> 01:21:01,396 "The German soldier knows he's going to lose his girl and his life." 971 01:21:04,813 --> 01:21:06,865 "The lantern burns every night." 972 01:21:06,982 --> 01:21:10,576 "it knows your steps and the way you walk." 973 01:21:12,529 --> 01:21:17,250 "it burns every night, but I've been long forgotten." 974 01:21:17,367 --> 01:21:20,131 "Should harm come to me, 975 01:21:20,245 --> 01:21:22,499 who will stand with you 976 01:21:23,248 --> 01:21:28,053 under the lantern with you, 977 01:21:28,169 --> 01:21:30,222 Lili Marleen." 978 01:21:31,464 --> 01:21:36,518 Mit dir Lili Marleen 979 01:21:37,762 --> 01:21:40,443 What is your life like in America? 980 01:21:40,557 --> 01:21:43,855 - Do you have a family? - Yes, I have a daughter, 981 01:21:43,977 --> 01:21:47,074 - and she has four children. - Four? 982 01:21:47,188 --> 01:21:51,697 - You must be very proud of them. - Yes, I am. I admit it. 983 01:21:51,818 --> 01:21:55,780 - And where's your wife? - She died a few years ago. 984 01:21:55,906 --> 01:21:57,958 Zigaretten? 985 01:21:59,117 --> 01:22:03,459 - How about you? Do you have children? - No, I don't. 986 01:22:04,205 --> 01:22:07,587 What is your position in America? It must be important. 987 01:22:07,709 --> 01:22:11,137 No, it isn't really. I'm a district court judge. 988 01:22:11,254 --> 01:22:13,840 I haven't even been that for the last year. 989 01:22:13,965 --> 01:22:18,188 - Are you retired? - Forcibly, by the electorate. 990 01:22:18,303 --> 01:22:21,352 You elect judges in the United States? 991 01:22:21,473 --> 01:22:25,613 - Yes, in some states. - I didn't know that. 992 01:22:25,727 --> 01:22:29,191 It's either a virtue or a defect of our judiciary system. 993 01:22:29,314 --> 01:22:33,573 I thought it was one of the virtues until last year, when I was defeated. 994 01:22:33,693 --> 01:22:36,956 I'm sure it was the fault of the electorate, not yours. 995 01:22:37,072 --> 01:22:41,912 There seems to be some difference of opinion about that. 996 01:22:43,745 --> 01:22:46,758 - This is where I live. - Here? 997 01:22:46,873 --> 01:22:49,092 Yes. It's not so bad inside. 998 01:22:49,209 --> 01:22:51,759 Would you like to come up? I could make some coffee. 999 01:22:51,878 --> 01:22:53,930 Yes, thank you. 1000 01:23:11,314 --> 01:23:14,197 Things haven't been very easy for you, have they? 1001 01:23:14,317 --> 01:23:16,488 I'm not used to them being easy. 1002 01:23:16,611 --> 01:23:19,459 I'm not fragile, Judge Haywood. 1003 01:23:19,573 --> 01:23:21,993 I'm a daughter of the military. 1004 01:23:22,117 --> 01:23:26,293 - You know what that means, don't you? - No, I'm afraid I don't. 1005 01:23:26,413 --> 01:23:29,296 It means I was taught discipline. 1006 01:23:30,125 --> 01:23:32,296 A very special kind of discipline. 1007 01:23:32,419 --> 01:23:37,010 For instance, as a child we would go for long rides into the country in the summer. 1008 01:23:37,132 --> 01:23:41,438 But I was never allowed to run to the lemonade stand with the others. 1009 01:23:41,553 --> 01:23:44,981 I was told "Control your thirst." 1010 01:23:46,016 --> 01:23:48,068 "Control hunger." 1011 01:23:48,935 --> 01:23:50,987 "Control emotion." 1012 01:23:51,104 --> 01:23:53,156 It has served me well. 1013 01:23:54,274 --> 01:23:58,035 And your husband? Was he of that heritage, too? 1014 01:23:58,153 --> 01:24:02,163 My husband was a soldier. He was brought up to do one thing... 1015 01:24:02,282 --> 01:24:05,461 to fight in the battle and fight well. 1016 01:24:07,954 --> 01:24:10,754 - Is the coffee all right? - Fine, thank you. 1017 01:24:10,874 --> 01:24:13,377 It's ersatz, but I always try to make it strong. 1018 01:24:13,501 --> 01:24:15,803 It's fine. 1019 01:24:20,717 --> 01:24:22,769 I'm curious. 1020 01:24:24,095 --> 01:24:27,061 What do you think of Ernst Janning? 1021 01:24:28,225 --> 01:24:33,907 Mrs Bertholt, I'm not at liberty to discuss the case outside of the courtroom. 1022 01:24:34,397 --> 01:24:36,449 Oh, yes. Of course. 1023 01:24:41,029 --> 01:24:45,869 I knew Ernst Janning a little. We used to attend the same concerts. 1024 01:24:45,992 --> 01:24:49,586 There was a reception given for Wagner's daughter-in-law. 1025 01:24:49,704 --> 01:24:51,674 Hitler was there. 1026 01:24:51,790 --> 01:24:54,969 Ernst Janning was there with his wife. 1027 01:24:55,085 --> 01:24:57,220 She was very beautiful. 1028 01:24:57,337 --> 01:24:59,674 Very small, very delicate. 1029 01:24:59,798 --> 01:25:01,933 She's dead now. 1030 01:25:02,592 --> 01:25:04,893 Hitler was quite taken with her. 1031 01:25:05,011 --> 01:25:07,692 He made advances towards her during the reception. 1032 01:25:07,806 --> 01:25:11,519 He used to do things like that in a burst of emotion. 1033 01:25:11,643 --> 01:25:15,024 I will never forget the way Ernst Janning cut him down. 1034 01:25:15,897 --> 01:25:18,448 I don't think anybody did it to him quite that way. 1035 01:25:18,567 --> 01:25:25,542 He said "Chancellor, I do not object so much that you are so ill-mannered." 1036 01:25:25,657 --> 01:25:28,872 "I do not object to that so much." 1037 01:25:28,994 --> 01:25:31,711 "I object that you are such a bourgeois." 1038 01:25:33,039 --> 01:25:37,465 Hitler whitened, stared at Janning and walked out. 1039 01:25:41,256 --> 01:25:43,759 Is the coffee really all right? 1040 01:25:43,883 --> 01:25:45,936 Fine, thank you. 1041 01:25:48,179 --> 01:25:53,103 Men like Janning, my husband and I, we hated Hitler. 1042 01:25:53,226 --> 01:25:57,319 I want you to know that. And he hated us. 1043 01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:00,867 He hated my husband because he was a real war hero, 1044 01:26:00,984 --> 01:26:03,784 and the little corporal couldn't tolerate that. 1045 01:26:03,904 --> 01:26:10,120 And he hated him because he married into nobility, which was my family. 1046 01:26:10,243 --> 01:26:14,466 Hitler was in awe of the nobility, but he hated it. 1047 01:26:15,457 --> 01:26:19,253 That's why it's so ironic, what happened. 1048 01:26:23,673 --> 01:26:25,809 You know what happened to my husband? 1049 01:26:25,926 --> 01:26:27,397 Yes. 1050 01:26:27,510 --> 01:26:31,568 What did he know of the crimes they cited him for? 1051 01:26:31,681 --> 01:26:35,359 He was placed on trial with the other military leaders. 1052 01:26:35,477 --> 01:26:41,195 He was part of the revenge the victors always take on the vanquished. 1053 01:26:41,316 --> 01:26:43,451 It was political murder. 1054 01:26:44,444 --> 01:26:47,659 You can see that, can't you? 1055 01:26:47,781 --> 01:26:51,127 Mrs Bertholt, I don't know what I see. 1056 01:26:52,577 --> 01:26:57,465 I probably shouldn't be here talking with you about this at all. 1057 01:26:57,582 --> 01:27:01,509 I want to understand. I do want to understand. 1058 01:27:02,504 --> 01:27:04,556 I have to. 1059 01:27:17,561 --> 01:27:20,491 Would you like some more coffee? 1060 01:27:20,605 --> 01:27:22,657 Yes, thank you. 1061 01:27:31,533 --> 01:27:33,917 - Hi. - Hi. 1062 01:27:37,747 --> 01:27:40,084 We found Irene Hoffman. 1063 01:27:41,251 --> 01:27:43,636 - Where? - Berlin. 1064 01:27:43,753 --> 01:27:45,177 Berlin, eh? 1065 01:27:45,297 --> 01:27:50,267 She got married. Her name is Wallner now. That's why we couldn't locate her. 1066 01:27:50,385 --> 01:27:53,398 - When is she coming? - She's not coming. 1067 01:27:53,513 --> 01:27:57,274 - What do you mean, she's not coming? - She doesn't want to come. 1068 01:27:57,392 --> 01:28:01,864 You know what it's like. None of them want to testify any more. 1069 01:28:01,980 --> 01:28:07,746 If I catch the midnight, I can get to Berlin and be back by tomorrow afternoon. 1070 01:28:07,861 --> 01:28:11,242 - Tad, you haven't slept... - it will be worth it if I can get Hoffman. 1071 01:28:11,364 --> 01:28:14,710 Take over for me in court in the morning, will you? 1072 01:29:07,087 --> 01:29:11,429 Colonel, please. I have told you this before when you first came in. 1073 01:29:11,549 --> 01:29:15,393 I say it again now: we are through with all this. 1074 01:29:15,512 --> 01:29:18,395 She does not have to go. You have no right to order her to. 1075 01:29:18,682 --> 01:29:23,605 Mr Wallner, I'm not ordering her to go. I have no authority to do that. 1076 01:29:23,728 --> 01:29:26,861 Do you think we get a medal for appearing at these trials? 1077 01:29:26,982 --> 01:29:31,407 The people do not like them, they do not want Germans to testify against Germans. 1078 01:29:31,528 --> 01:29:39,631 I haven't been prosecuting these cases for the past two years without knowing that. 1079 01:29:45,250 --> 01:29:47,302 It is easy for you to say go. 1080 01:29:47,419 --> 01:29:51,215 After the trials you go back to America, but we must live with these people. 1081 01:29:51,339 --> 01:29:54,934 Mr Wallner, don't you think I realise what I'm asking? 1082 01:29:55,051 --> 01:29:57,103 How can you come in like the Gestapo... 1083 01:29:57,220 --> 01:30:01,147 Because they must not be allowed to get away with what they did! 1084 01:30:03,101 --> 01:30:07,277 Do you really think they won't get away with it in the end? 1085 01:30:09,608 --> 01:30:12,076 I say the hell with them and the hell with you. 1086 01:30:12,193 --> 01:30:14,080 Hugo. 1087 01:30:24,164 --> 01:30:26,845 Emil Hahn will be there? 1088 01:30:28,084 --> 01:30:30,588 Yes. In the dock. 1089 01:30:33,381 --> 01:30:35,433 Ernst Janning? 1090 01:30:37,010 --> 01:30:39,062 Yes. 1091 01:30:48,271 --> 01:30:50,822 You saw the store downstairs. 1092 01:30:53,568 --> 01:30:57,828 It's not much, but it's a new start for us. 1093 01:31:00,617 --> 01:31:03,582 They will come if I go to Nuremberg. 1094 01:31:06,248 --> 01:31:10,424 They will come and break the windows of the store. 1095 01:31:10,543 --> 01:31:13,427 I'll place a guard in front of the store 24 hours a day. 1096 01:31:13,546 --> 01:31:18,351 - You do not have to go, Irene... - Irene, you do have to go. 1097 01:31:18,468 --> 01:31:22,561 You have to go for all the people who can't get on the stand themselves. 1098 01:31:22,681 --> 01:31:26,904 - You do not owe it to anybody, Irene. - Yes, you do! 1099 01:31:28,436 --> 01:31:32,696 You owe it to one person at least. 1100 01:31:53,086 --> 01:31:55,222 In the night... 1101 01:31:55,338 --> 01:31:57,390 every night... 1102 01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,680 we've known somehow it would come to this. 1103 01:32:18,820 --> 01:32:22,332 Dr Geuter, do you recognise that headline? 1104 01:32:22,449 --> 01:32:23,706 Yes, sir. 1105 01:32:23,825 --> 01:32:26,376 Would you read it to the tribunal? 1106 01:32:26,494 --> 01:32:28,665 "Death to the race defiler." 1107 01:32:28,788 --> 01:32:33,794 - In what newspaper did it appear? - Julius Streicher's Der Stürmer. 1108 01:32:34,127 --> 01:32:37,176 What was it in connection with? 1109 01:32:37,297 --> 01:32:39,302 The Feldenstein case. 1110 01:32:39,424 --> 01:32:41,761 What was the Feldenstein case? 1111 01:32:41,885 --> 01:32:46,357 Your Honour! The defence objects to introduction of the Feldenstein case. 1112 01:32:46,473 --> 01:32:50,234 It is a notorious case, perhaps the most notorious of the period. 1113 01:32:50,352 --> 01:32:57,114 It has overtones and appeals to emotion that would perhaps be best not raised. 1114 01:32:58,276 --> 01:33:02,452 There are no issues or overtones that may not be raised in this courtroom. 1115 01:33:02,572 --> 01:33:09,501 The tribunal is interested in everything that is relevant. Objection is overruled. 1116 01:33:11,957 --> 01:33:14,425 It's all right. I'll take it. 1117 01:33:17,587 --> 01:33:20,802 - May it please the tribunal? - You may continue. 1118 01:33:20,924 --> 01:33:22,976 Thank you. 1119 01:33:31,184 --> 01:33:35,444 Now, what was the Feldenstein case? 1120 01:33:36,231 --> 01:33:40,074 The case of a man accused of racial pollution. 1121 01:33:40,193 --> 01:33:44,250 Will you explain what is meant by "racial pollution"? 1122 01:33:45,282 --> 01:33:50,454 This is the charge that is referred to in the Nuremberg laws. 1123 01:33:50,579 --> 01:33:57,044 Any non-Aryan having sexual relations with an Aryan may be punished by death. 1124 01:33:57,168 --> 01:34:01,807 When did you first become acquainted with the Feldenstein case? 1125 01:34:02,716 --> 01:34:06,856 In September 1935 I was contacted by the police. 1126 01:34:06,970 --> 01:34:10,233 They said that Mr Feldenstein was being held 1127 01:34:10,348 --> 01:34:14,690 and that he requested that I serve as his counsellor. 1128 01:34:14,811 --> 01:34:17,196 What position did he hold in the community? 1129 01:34:17,314 --> 01:34:19,994 He was a very well-known merchant. 1130 01:34:20,108 --> 01:34:24,498 He was one of the heads of the Jewish Congregation in Nuremberg. 1131 01:34:24,613 --> 01:34:28,409 What was the nature of the charge against him? 1132 01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,748 He was accused of having intimate relations 1133 01:34:32,871 --> 01:34:36,714 with a 16-year-old girl, Irene Hoffman. 1134 01:34:37,459 --> 01:34:39,962 I see. 1135 01:34:40,086 --> 01:34:44,097 And what did he say to you about the case? 1136 01:34:44,215 --> 01:34:46,102 He said it was false. 1137 01:34:46,217 --> 01:34:49,148 He said he knew the girl and her family a long time. 1138 01:34:49,262 --> 01:34:51,599 He'd gone to visit her since they died. 1139 01:34:51,723 --> 01:34:55,603 But there had never been anything of the kind charged between them. 1140 01:34:57,604 --> 01:35:02,574 Doctor, would you please tell the tribunal what happened then? 1141 01:35:03,568 --> 01:35:07,495 He was indicted before the special court at Nuremberg. 1142 01:35:07,614 --> 01:35:09,951 Where was this special court? 1143 01:35:10,075 --> 01:35:14,879 It was right here. This building. This very courtroom. 1144 01:35:14,996 --> 01:35:20,845 Dr Geuter, what were the circumstances surrounding the trial? 1145 01:35:22,796 --> 01:35:27,933 It was used as a showplace for National Socialism. 1146 01:35:29,219 --> 01:35:35,566 It was the time of the September celebrations, the Nuremberg rallies. 1147 01:35:35,684 --> 01:35:38,448 The courtroom was crowded. 1148 01:35:38,562 --> 01:35:41,741 Back there, people were standing up. 1149 01:35:42,732 --> 01:35:46,992 Julius Streicher was sitting in one of the front seats. 1150 01:35:47,112 --> 01:35:51,335 And high officials of the Nazi party were all over. 1151 01:35:51,449 --> 01:35:55,293 Doctor, would you please tell us 1152 01:35:55,412 --> 01:35:59,635 what were your expectations for the trial in this climate? 1153 01:35:59,749 --> 01:36:02,169 I expected the worst 1154 01:36:02,294 --> 01:36:07,680 when I saw that Emil Hahn was the public prosecutor. 1155 01:36:08,383 --> 01:36:10,435 He was a fanatic. 1156 01:36:10,552 --> 01:36:15,725 His trials were always marked by extreme brutality. 1157 01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:23,233 But I had one hope for the outcome, 1158 01:36:25,734 --> 01:36:31,084 because sitting on the judge's bench was Ernst Janning. 1159 01:36:32,449 --> 01:36:36,411 His reputation was known throughout Germany. 1160 01:36:36,536 --> 01:36:41,626 He was known to have dedicated his life to justice, 1161 01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:44,170 to the concept of justice. 1162 01:36:47,380 --> 01:36:49,432 Thank you. That's all. 1163 01:36:52,427 --> 01:36:54,479 Any questions? 1164 01:36:55,889 --> 01:36:58,108 Thank you. No questions. 1165 01:36:58,225 --> 01:37:00,277 The witness is excused. 1166 01:37:01,645 --> 01:37:07,327 The prosecution calls to the stand Irene Hoffman Wallner. 1167 01:37:31,466 --> 01:37:34,017 Will you raise your right hand? 1168 01:37:34,135 --> 01:37:36,022 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1169 01:37:36,137 --> 01:37:39,270 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1170 01:37:39,391 --> 01:37:41,443 I do. 1171 01:37:45,397 --> 01:37:48,611 Will you please state your name to the tribunal? 1172 01:37:51,570 --> 01:37:54,203 Irene Hoffman Wallner. 1173 01:37:54,322 --> 01:37:59,875 Mrs Wallner, did you know Lehman Feldenstein? 1174 01:38:00,495 --> 01:38:01,836 Yes. 1175 01:38:01,955 --> 01:38:04,589 When did you first meet him? 1176 01:38:04,708 --> 01:38:11,220 It was 1925 or 1926. I am not sure exactly. 1177 01:38:11,756 --> 01:38:16,146 - How old was he at this time? - He was in his fifties. 1178 01:38:16,261 --> 01:38:19,855 And how old was he at the time of his arrest? 1179 01:38:21,141 --> 01:38:25,151 - He was 65. - I see. 1180 01:38:26,396 --> 01:38:29,160 What was the nature of your relationship? 1181 01:38:31,109 --> 01:38:33,161 We were friends. 1182 01:38:33,945 --> 01:38:37,160 Did you continue to see him after your parents died? 1183 01:38:37,282 --> 01:38:40,829 - Yes. - Why? 1184 01:38:40,952 --> 01:38:47,335 We were friends. He owned the building that I lived in. 1185 01:38:48,209 --> 01:38:51,472 His business took him there quite often. 1186 01:38:52,464 --> 01:38:55,845 Now, what did you say to the police 1187 01:38:55,967 --> 01:39:00,772 when they questioned you about having intimate relations with him? 1188 01:39:02,057 --> 01:39:05,355 I told them it was a lie. 1189 01:39:05,477 --> 01:39:08,276 Could you tell me who the public prosecutor was? 1190 01:39:12,317 --> 01:39:14,903 Emil Hahn. 1191 01:39:15,028 --> 01:39:19,453 - Did Emil Hahn question you? - Yes. 1192 01:39:19,574 --> 01:39:21,626 What did he say to you? 1193 01:39:23,745 --> 01:39:28,466 He... took me into a separate room 1194 01:39:28,583 --> 01:39:31,715 where we were alone. 1195 01:39:31,836 --> 01:39:37,353 He told me that it was no use to repeat my story 1196 01:39:38,385 --> 01:39:41,315 because no one would believe me. 1197 01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:45,902 That there had been race defilement, 1198 01:39:46,017 --> 01:39:50,858 and the only pardon for this was to kill the violator. 1199 01:39:52,524 --> 01:39:59,950 He told me that if I protected Mr Feldenstein, 1200 01:40:00,907 --> 01:40:04,964 that I would be held under arrest for perjury. 1201 01:40:05,912 --> 01:40:08,332 What did you reply to him? 1202 01:40:08,456 --> 01:40:13,178 I told him what I had said, again and again. 1203 01:40:13,295 --> 01:40:17,518 I told him that I could not say anything else, 1204 01:40:17,632 --> 01:40:22,307 I could not lie about someone who had been so kind to me. 1205 01:40:22,429 --> 01:40:25,228 Were you held under arrest? 1206 01:40:26,224 --> 01:40:27,945 Yes. 1207 01:40:28,894 --> 01:40:30,946 Mrs Wallner, tell us, 1208 01:40:32,147 --> 01:40:38,957 what was the manner in which Emil Hahn conducted the prosecution? 1209 01:40:40,238 --> 01:40:45,791 He made a mockery 1210 01:40:45,911 --> 01:40:51,593 of everything Mr Feldenstein tried to say in his own defence. 1211 01:40:51,708 --> 01:40:57,177 He held him up to ridicule whenever possible. 1212 01:40:57,797 --> 01:41:00,681 What was the reaction of the audience? 1213 01:41:01,426 --> 01:41:05,768 They laughed again and again. 1214 01:41:07,265 --> 01:41:10,943 How long did the trial last? 1215 01:41:12,604 --> 01:41:15,072 Mrs Wallner? 1216 01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:17,777 How long did the trial last? 1217 01:41:19,861 --> 01:41:20,988 Two days. 1218 01:41:21,112 --> 01:41:24,956 Was the verdict passed at the end of the second day? 1219 01:41:25,075 --> 01:41:26,083 Yes. 1220 01:41:26,201 --> 01:41:29,962 - What was the verdict? - Guilty. 1221 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,714 And what was the sentence? 1222 01:41:34,292 --> 01:41:39,382 Mr Feldenstein was sentenced to be executed. 1223 01:41:41,007 --> 01:41:45,598 I was sentenced to be in prison for two years for perjury. 1224 01:41:48,181 --> 01:41:51,859 Who was the presiding judge? 1225 01:41:53,270 --> 01:41:55,322 Ernst Janning. 1226 01:41:56,481 --> 01:41:59,245 Were the sentences carried out? 1227 01:42:04,906 --> 01:42:08,418 Thank you very much, Mrs Wallner. That's all. 1228 01:42:13,957 --> 01:42:16,009 Any questions? 1229 01:42:28,013 --> 01:42:34,313 Your Honour, I would like to request that the witness be kept available. 1230 01:42:34,436 --> 01:42:37,864 We will present further evidence on the Feldenstein matter 1231 01:42:37,981 --> 01:42:41,362 when it comes time for the defence to present its case. 1232 01:42:44,404 --> 01:42:48,580 The witness will please hold herself so available. 1233 01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:51,120 You may go. You're excused now. 1234 01:43:13,642 --> 01:43:15,694 Colonel Lawson. 1235 01:43:20,398 --> 01:43:25,867 Your Honours, I offer in evidence a decree, signed by Adolf Hitler, 1236 01:43:25,987 --> 01:43:29,998 directing that all persons accused or suspected of disloyalty 1237 01:43:30,116 --> 01:43:32,204 or resistance of any sort 1238 01:43:32,327 --> 01:43:34,712 might be arrested secretly, 1239 01:43:34,829 --> 01:43:39,052 with no notice to friends or relatives, without any trial whatsoever, 1240 01:43:39,167 --> 01:43:42,015 and put into concentration camps. 1241 01:43:42,128 --> 01:43:46,850 I also offer a group of orders issued under that decree, 1242 01:43:46,967 --> 01:43:50,430 each one signed by one of the defendants, 1243 01:43:50,554 --> 01:43:52,689 by which hundreds of persons were arrested 1244 01:43:52,806 --> 01:43:55,653 and placed in concentration camps. 1245 01:43:55,767 --> 01:43:59,314 Signed by Friedrich Hofstetter, 1246 01:43:59,437 --> 01:44:01,489 Werner Lampe, 1247 01:44:02,649 --> 01:44:04,701 Emil Hahn, 1248 01:44:05,569 --> 01:44:07,621 Ernst Janning. 1249 01:44:09,739 --> 01:44:14,995 Your Honours, the defendants on trial here today 1250 01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:19,925 did not personally administer the concentration camps. 1251 01:44:20,041 --> 01:44:23,007 They never had to beat victims, 1252 01:44:23,128 --> 01:44:26,889 or pull the lever that released gas into the chambers. 1253 01:44:27,966 --> 01:44:32,640 But as the documents we have introduced into this case have shown, 1254 01:44:32,762 --> 01:44:37,022 these defendants fashioned and executed laws, 1255 01:44:37,142 --> 01:44:39,526 and rendered judgments 1256 01:44:41,271 --> 01:44:46,444 which sent millions of victims to their destinations. 1257 01:44:46,568 --> 01:44:48,822 Major Radnitz. 1258 01:44:50,155 --> 01:44:54,876 Your Honours, I would like to request that Colonel Lawson be sworn in as a witness. 1259 01:44:54,993 --> 01:44:57,045 - Granted. - Thank you. 1260 01:45:03,126 --> 01:45:04,763 Will you raise your right hand? 1261 01:45:04,878 --> 01:45:06,717 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1262 01:45:06,838 --> 01:45:09,602 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1263 01:45:09,716 --> 01:45:11,768 I do. 1264 01:45:14,012 --> 01:45:18,437 Were you active in the United States army in 1945 at the close of the war? 1265 01:45:18,558 --> 01:45:20,195 Yes, I was. 1266 01:45:20,310 --> 01:45:24,023 Were you in command of troops liberating concentration camps? 1267 01:45:24,147 --> 01:45:25,820 I was. 1268 01:45:25,941 --> 01:45:29,820 - Were you in Dachau and Belsen? - Yes. 1269 01:45:29,945 --> 01:45:33,124 Were you present when the films we are about to see were taken? 1270 01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:35,292 Yes, I was. 1271 01:46:02,727 --> 01:46:04,448 OK. 1272 01:46:12,362 --> 01:46:17,617 The map shows the number of and location of concentration camps 1273 01:46:18,743 --> 01:46:20,795 under the Third Reich. 1274 01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:27,763 Buchenwald concentration camp was founded in 1933. 1275 01:46:29,462 --> 01:46:32,559 Its inmates numbered about 80,000. 1276 01:46:34,968 --> 01:46:37,471 There was a motto at Buchenwald: 1277 01:46:37,971 --> 01:46:40,023 "Break the body, 1278 01:46:42,183 --> 01:46:44,817 break the spirit, 1279 01:46:46,897 --> 01:46:49,614 break the heart." 1280 01:46:50,942 --> 01:46:53,327 The ovens at Buchenwald, 1281 01:46:54,654 --> 01:46:59,708 evidence of last-minute efforts to dispose of bodies. 1282 01:46:59,826 --> 01:47:04,417 The stoves were manufactured by a well-known company 1283 01:47:04,539 --> 01:47:09,296 which also specialised in baking ovens. 1284 01:47:09,419 --> 01:47:12,765 The name of the firm is clearly inscribed. 1285 01:47:12,881 --> 01:47:16,761 An exhibit of by-products of Buchenwald, 1286 01:47:17,677 --> 01:47:22,933 displayed for the local townspeople by an Allied officer. 1287 01:47:23,391 --> 01:47:25,527 Brushes of every description. 1288 01:47:25,644 --> 01:47:29,357 Shoes... adults' and children's. 1289 01:47:30,607 --> 01:47:32,694 Spectacles. 1290 01:47:32,817 --> 01:47:34,905 Gold from teeth, melted down, 1291 01:47:35,028 --> 01:47:40,462 sent once a month to the medical department of the Waffen SS. 1292 01:47:40,575 --> 01:47:43,790 A lampshade made from human skin. 1293 01:47:46,206 --> 01:47:48,887 Skin being used for paintings, 1294 01:47:50,502 --> 01:47:53,183 many having an obscene nature. 1295 01:47:54,589 --> 01:47:57,722 The heads of two Polish labourers, 1296 01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,473 shrunken to one-fifth their normal size. 1297 01:48:02,597 --> 01:48:06,441 A human pelvis used as an ashtray. 1298 01:48:10,605 --> 01:48:16,905 Children who had been tattooed to mark them for eventual extermination. 1299 01:48:19,322 --> 01:48:22,870 Sometimes mercy was shown to the children. 1300 01:48:23,577 --> 01:48:25,961 They were injected with morphia 1301 01:48:26,079 --> 01:48:29,673 so they'd be unconscious when hanged. 1302 01:48:29,833 --> 01:48:34,424 One of the doctors described how they'd then place ropes around their necks, 1303 01:48:34,546 --> 01:48:37,049 and in the doctor's own words: 1304 01:48:37,173 --> 01:48:43,390 "Like pictures, they were then hanged by hooks on the walls." 1305 01:48:47,267 --> 01:48:50,945 The bodies of those who had come in boxcars, 1306 01:48:51,062 --> 01:48:53,743 without food and without air, 1307 01:48:53,857 --> 01:48:58,163 who hadn't survived the journey to Dachau. 1308 01:48:58,278 --> 01:49:00,959 Hundreds of inmates were used as human guinea pigs 1309 01:49:01,072 --> 01:49:04,833 for atrocious medical experiments. 1310 01:49:06,995 --> 01:49:12,879 A witness at an execution at Dachau gave the following description: 1311 01:49:14,002 --> 01:49:17,265 "inmates were made to leave their clothing on a rack." 1312 01:49:17,839 --> 01:49:21,470 "They were told they were going to take baths." 1313 01:49:21,593 --> 01:49:24,606 "Then the doors were locked." 1314 01:49:24,721 --> 01:49:30,439 "Tins of Zyklon B were released through the specially constructed apertures." 1315 01:49:32,270 --> 01:49:37,241 "You could hear the groaning and the whimpering inside." 1316 01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:41,707 "After two or three minutes, all was quiet." 1317 01:49:50,038 --> 01:49:55,840 Death transports that had arrived included 90,000 from Slovakia, 1318 01:49:57,712 --> 01:50:00,477 65,000 from Greece, 1319 01:50:01,633 --> 01:50:04,053 11,000 from France, 1320 01:50:06,638 --> 01:50:08,892 90,000 from Holland, 1321 01:50:11,643 --> 01:50:13,980 400,000 from Hungary, 1322 01:50:16,606 --> 01:50:20,200 250,000 from Poland and Upper Silesia, 1323 01:50:22,237 --> 01:50:25,167 and 100,000 from Germany. 1324 01:50:28,618 --> 01:50:30,670 And this is what was filmed 1325 01:50:30,787 --> 01:50:34,844 when British troops liberated Belsen concentration camp. 1326 01:50:39,170 --> 01:50:43,892 For sanitary reasons a British bulldozer had to bury the bodies 1327 01:50:44,009 --> 01:50:46,061 as quickly as possible. 1328 01:50:52,684 --> 01:50:55,152 Who were the bodies? 1329 01:50:56,479 --> 01:51:00,406 Members of every occupied country of Europe. 1330 01:51:01,526 --> 01:51:06,995 Two-thirds of the Jews of Europe... exterminated. 1331 01:51:08,700 --> 01:51:10,752 More than six million, 1332 01:51:12,078 --> 01:51:16,669 according to reports from the Nazis' own figures. 1333 01:51:20,253 --> 01:51:22,305 But the real figure... 1334 01:51:27,302 --> 01:51:29,354 no one knows. 1335 01:51:36,102 --> 01:51:40,243 How dare they show us those films? How dare they? 1336 01:51:40,899 --> 01:51:44,493 We are not executioners! We are judges. 1337 01:51:44,611 --> 01:51:47,992 You do not think it was like that, do you? 1338 01:51:49,699 --> 01:51:53,412 There were executions, yes, but nothing like that. 1339 01:51:53,536 --> 01:51:55,589 Nothing at all! 1340 01:52:01,544 --> 01:52:03,182 Pohl! 1341 01:52:03,630 --> 01:52:05,682 Pohl! 1342 01:52:07,467 --> 01:52:12,106 You ran those concentration camps, you and Eichmann. 1343 01:52:12,931 --> 01:52:16,395 They say we killed millions of people. 1344 01:52:16,518 --> 01:52:18,487 Millions of people! 1345 01:52:18,603 --> 01:52:21,451 How could it be possible? 1346 01:52:21,565 --> 01:52:25,408 Tell them! How could it be possible? 1347 01:52:28,446 --> 01:52:30,498 It's possible. 1348 01:52:31,449 --> 01:52:33,419 How? 1349 01:52:33,535 --> 01:52:35,587 You mean technically? 1350 01:52:37,455 --> 01:52:40,220 It all depends on your facilities. 1351 01:52:40,333 --> 01:52:44,759 Say you have two chambers that accommodate 2,000 people apiece. 1352 01:52:44,879 --> 01:52:47,050 Figure it out. 1353 01:52:47,173 --> 01:52:51,765 It's possible to get rid of 10,000 in a half hour. 1354 01:52:51,887 --> 01:52:54,604 You don't even need guards to do it. 1355 01:52:54,723 --> 01:52:57,736 You can tell them they are going to take a shower, 1356 01:52:57,851 --> 01:53:02,074 and then instead of the water, you tum on the gas. 1357 01:53:02,772 --> 01:53:08,123 It's not the killing that is the problem. It's disposing of the bodies. 1358 01:53:08,236 --> 01:53:10,288 That's the problem. 1359 01:53:17,996 --> 01:53:21,259 Das ist schön 1360 01:53:21,374 --> 01:53:23,344 Wunderschön 1361 01:53:23,460 --> 01:53:25,512 Das tut gut 1362 01:53:25,629 --> 01:53:32,094 Was man alles im Liebesrausch tut 1363 01:53:32,469 --> 01:53:38,235 Und zur Nacht fliegt ein flüsterndes Fleh'n 1364 01:53:38,350 --> 01:53:45,776 "ach verweile, du bist ja so schön" 1365 01:53:45,982 --> 01:53:51,866 Doch die Liebe bleibt nur, wo sie ist 1366 01:53:51,988 --> 01:53:58,798 Wenn man immer aufs neue sich küsst 1367 01:53:58,912 --> 01:54:00,383 Und so lebt... 1368 01:54:00,497 --> 01:54:02,833 - I'm sorry I'm late. - That's all right. 1369 01:54:02,958 --> 01:54:07,383 I was doing some work for the rebuilding committee. 1370 01:54:08,338 --> 01:54:12,929 I brought you some folders so we can decide what you should see next. 1371 01:54:13,051 --> 01:54:16,479 There's the Albrecht Durer house. And the museum. 1372 01:54:16,596 --> 01:54:20,309 - When do you think you could make it? - Any time. 1373 01:54:20,433 --> 01:54:24,942 - Would you like to order now? - Can I help you with the menu? 1374 01:54:25,063 --> 01:54:27,613 I don't think I'll have anything, thank you. 1375 01:54:27,732 --> 01:54:30,034 A glass of Moselle, please. 1376 01:54:30,151 --> 01:54:32,203 Moselle. 1377 01:54:34,739 --> 01:54:36,791 What is the matter? 1378 01:54:36,908 --> 01:54:40,502 Nothing. I'm just not hungry, that's all. 1379 01:54:47,335 --> 01:54:49,387 You know... 1380 01:54:50,922 --> 01:54:54,185 the last few days have meant a great deal to me. 1381 01:54:54,301 --> 01:54:56,306 How? 1382 01:54:56,428 --> 01:55:01,482 I don't think you realise what a provincial man I really am. 1383 01:55:02,183 --> 01:55:06,360 I've been abroad just exactly once before this. 1384 01:55:06,479 --> 01:55:09,197 That was when I was a doughboy in World War I. 1385 01:55:09,316 --> 01:55:13,408 I used to pass places like this and wonder what they were like. 1386 01:55:13,528 --> 01:55:16,743 - They've meant a great deal to me, too. - How? 1387 01:55:16,865 --> 01:55:20,079 They gave me back the feeling I had of the Americans. 1388 01:55:20,201 --> 01:55:24,627 The feeling I used to have when I was in your country. 1389 01:55:27,500 --> 01:55:29,921 It's too bad this isn't a magazine story. 1390 01:55:30,045 --> 01:55:31,088 Why? 1391 01:55:31,212 --> 01:55:35,721 If it were, two people like us, the rapidly ageing jurist... 1392 01:55:35,842 --> 01:55:37,313 Oh, no. 1393 01:55:37,427 --> 01:55:41,058 The rapidly ageing jurist and the beautiful widow 1394 01:55:41,181 --> 01:55:48,026 would transcend their difficulties and travel places either by land or by sea. 1395 01:56:02,118 --> 01:56:04,289 I saw Mr Perkins today. 1396 01:56:04,412 --> 01:56:08,256 He told me they showed those pictures in the courtroom, 1397 01:56:08,375 --> 01:56:10,795 Colonel Lawson's favourite pictures. 1398 01:56:11,711 --> 01:56:14,760 He drags them out at any pretext, doesn't he? 1399 01:56:14,881 --> 01:56:18,179 Colonel Lawson's private chamber of horrors. 1400 01:56:21,263 --> 01:56:26,186 Is that what you think we are? Do you think we knew of those things? 1401 01:56:26,309 --> 01:56:30,735 Do you think we wanted to murder women and children? 1402 01:56:31,898 --> 01:56:35,410 Do you believe that? Do you? 1403 01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:40,951 Mrs Bertholt, I don't know what to believe. 1404 01:56:41,074 --> 01:56:44,871 Good God. We're sitting here drinking. 1405 01:56:44,995 --> 01:56:47,759 How could you think that we knew? 1406 01:56:47,914 --> 01:56:50,133 We did not know. 1407 01:56:50,250 --> 01:56:52,302 We did not know! 1408 01:56:54,379 --> 01:56:58,721 As far as I can make out, no one in this country knew. 1409 01:57:01,011 --> 01:57:05,187 Mrs Bertholt, your husband was one of the heads of the army. 1410 01:57:05,307 --> 01:57:08,190 And he did not know. I tell you, he did not know. 1411 01:57:08,310 --> 01:57:11,904 It was Himmler. It was Goebbels. The SS knew what happened. 1412 01:57:12,022 --> 01:57:13,861 We did not know. 1413 01:57:13,982 --> 01:57:18,454 Listen to me. There are things that happened on both sides. 1414 01:57:18,570 --> 01:57:21,868 My husband was a military man all his life. 1415 01:57:22,616 --> 01:57:25,878 He was entitled to a soldier's death. He asked for that. 1416 01:57:25,994 --> 01:57:30,300 I tried to get that for him. Just that, that he would die with some honour. 1417 01:57:30,415 --> 01:57:35,220 I went from official to official. I begged for that! 1418 01:57:35,337 --> 01:57:39,678 That he should be permitted the dignity of a firing squad. 1419 01:57:40,425 --> 01:57:42,477 You know what happened. 1420 01:57:43,803 --> 01:57:49,901 He was hanged with the others. And after that, I knew what it was to hate. 1421 01:57:50,018 --> 01:57:54,159 I never left the house. I never left the room. I drank. 1422 01:57:54,272 --> 01:58:00,536 I hated with every fibre of my being. I hated every American I've ever known. 1423 01:58:00,654 --> 01:58:04,165 But one can't live with hate. I know that. 1424 01:58:07,869 --> 01:58:10,254 Dan, 1425 01:58:10,372 --> 01:58:14,678 we have to forget if we are to go on living. 1426 01:58:16,711 --> 01:58:18,681 Du darfst auf mich bauen 1427 01:58:18,797 --> 01:58:21,929 Weißt ja, wie gut ich dir bin 1428 01:58:22,050 --> 01:58:26,012 Ja, ja, ja, ja 1429 01:58:26,137 --> 01:58:29,934 Weißt doch, wie gut ich dir bin. 1430 01:58:30,058 --> 01:58:34,115 Und, und, wenn in der Ferne 1431 01:58:34,229 --> 01:58:38,025 Dir, dir, mein Bild erscheint 1432 01:58:38,149 --> 01:58:41,697 Dann, dann, wünscht' so gerne 1433 01:58:41,820 --> 01:58:44,619 Dass uns die Liebe vereint 1434 01:59:03,258 --> 01:59:05,310 Herr Rolfe. 1435 01:59:25,780 --> 01:59:28,117 May it please the tribunal. 1436 01:59:33,455 --> 01:59:37,465 Yesterday the tribunal witnessed some films. 1437 01:59:38,710 --> 01:59:43,681 They were... shocking films. 1438 01:59:44,466 --> 01:59:46,518 Devastating films. 1439 01:59:48,136 --> 01:59:50,188 As a German, 1440 01:59:52,557 --> 01:59:58,441 I feel ashamed that such things could have taken place in my country. 1441 01:59:59,856 --> 02:00:04,696 There can never be a justification for them, 1442 02:00:04,819 --> 02:00:09,624 not in generations, not in centuries. 1443 02:00:13,495 --> 02:00:15,547 But... 1444 02:00:17,791 --> 02:00:21,255 I do think it was wrong, 1445 02:00:23,088 --> 02:00:25,140 indecent 1446 02:00:26,049 --> 02:00:29,846 and terribly unfair of the prosecution 1447 02:00:30,929 --> 02:00:37,988 to show such films in this case, in this court, at this time 1448 02:00:38,103 --> 02:00:40,867 against these defendants! 1449 02:00:40,981 --> 02:00:46,498 And I cannot protest too strongly against such tactics. 1450 02:00:54,035 --> 02:00:57,915 What is the prosecution trying to prove? 1451 02:00:58,039 --> 02:01:03,259 That the German people as a whole were responsible for these events? 1452 02:01:03,378 --> 02:01:06,308 Or that they were even aware of them? 1453 02:01:06,423 --> 02:01:08,759 Because, if he is, 1454 02:01:10,427 --> 02:01:12,728 he's not stating facts 1455 02:01:14,014 --> 02:01:16,648 and he knows he's not. 1456 02:01:19,269 --> 02:01:21,950 The secrecy of the operations, 1457 02:01:22,063 --> 02:01:24,649 the geographical location of the camps, 1458 02:01:24,774 --> 02:01:28,452 the breakdown of communications in the last days of the war 1459 02:01:28,570 --> 02:01:31,370 when the exterminations rose into the millions, 1460 02:01:31,489 --> 02:01:35,796 show only too clearly that he is not telling the truth. 1461 02:01:35,911 --> 02:01:42,839 The truth is that these brutalities were brought about by the few extremists. 1462 02:01:42,959 --> 02:01:45,011 The criminals. 1463 02:01:46,796 --> 02:01:50,011 Very few Germans knew what was going on. 1464 02:01:50,133 --> 02:01:52,185 Very few. 1465 02:01:53,220 --> 02:01:59,151 None of us knew what was happening in the places shown on these films. 1466 02:02:00,435 --> 02:02:02,487 None of us. 1467 02:02:08,068 --> 02:02:11,496 But the most ironic part of it 1468 02:02:11,613 --> 02:02:18,162 is that the prosecution showed these films against these defendants, 1469 02:02:18,286 --> 02:02:23,174 men who stayed in power for one reason only: 1470 02:02:23,291 --> 02:02:26,803 to prevent worse things from happening. 1471 02:02:27,712 --> 02:02:30,393 Who is the braver man? 1472 02:02:30,507 --> 02:02:34,647 The man who escapes or resigns in times of peril? 1473 02:02:35,512 --> 02:02:41,728 Or the man who stays on his post at the risk of his own personal safety? 1474 02:02:42,394 --> 02:02:46,700 The defence will present witnesses and letters and documents 1475 02:02:46,815 --> 02:02:49,365 from religious and political refugees all over the world 1476 02:02:49,484 --> 02:02:52,663 telling how Ernst Janning saved them from execution. 1477 02:02:52,779 --> 02:02:55,330 The defence will show the many times 1478 02:02:55,448 --> 02:02:58,497 Ernst Janning was able to effect mitigation of sentences, 1479 02:02:58,618 --> 02:03:03,542 when without his influence the results would have been much worse. 1480 02:03:03,665 --> 02:03:06,215 The defence will show 1481 02:03:06,334 --> 02:03:11,638 that Ernst Janning's personal physician was a non-Aryan. 1482 02:03:11,756 --> 02:03:17,273 A Jewish man who he kept in attendance, much to his own peril. 1483 02:03:21,224 --> 02:03:24,487 The defence presents affidavits 1484 02:03:24,603 --> 02:03:28,565 from legal authorities and famed jurists the world over, 1485 02:03:28,690 --> 02:03:32,866 pleading that special consideration must be made in this case, 1486 02:03:32,986 --> 02:03:39,249 saying that the entire work of Ernst Janning was inspired by one motive only: 1487 02:03:39,367 --> 02:03:44,754 the endeavour to preserve justice and the concept of justice. 1488 02:03:48,627 --> 02:03:56,848 Now, what has the prosecution to offer against this? 1489 02:03:57,886 --> 02:04:02,856 The prosecution, in fact, has presented in the case of Ernst Janning 1490 02:04:02,974 --> 02:04:05,988 only one tangible piece of evidence. 1491 02:04:06,102 --> 02:04:09,400 The Feldenstein case. A notorious case, as the defence said. 1492 02:04:09,522 --> 02:04:12,073 A case which never should have been reopened. 1493 02:04:12,192 --> 02:04:17,365 A case which the defence is obliged to review now. 1494 02:04:19,241 --> 02:04:21,874 The defence calls Mrs Elsa Lindnow. 1495 02:04:40,303 --> 02:04:42,605 Will you raise your right hand? 1496 02:04:42,722 --> 02:04:44,692 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1497 02:04:44,808 --> 02:04:48,022 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1498 02:04:48,144 --> 02:04:50,196 I do. 1499 02:04:53,441 --> 02:04:55,493 Mrs Lindnow. 1500 02:04:58,113 --> 02:05:00,332 What is your occupation? 1501 02:05:00,448 --> 02:05:02,500 I am a cleaning woman. 1502 02:05:02,993 --> 02:05:05,840 Where are you employed? 1503 02:05:05,954 --> 02:05:11,091 4... 345 Grosseplatz. 1504 02:05:11,209 --> 02:05:14,591 - Did you know Lehman Feldenstein? - Yes, I knew him. 1505 02:05:14,713 --> 02:05:20,312 - In what capacity? - He was my employer in 1935. 1506 02:05:20,427 --> 02:05:22,811 Do you know Mrs Irene Hoffman Wallner? 1507 02:05:22,929 --> 02:05:24,270 Yes. 1508 02:05:24,389 --> 02:05:29,110 - In what capacity? - She was a tenant in the building. 1509 02:05:29,227 --> 02:05:33,699 Did you ever see Miss Hoffman and Mr Feldenstein together? 1510 02:05:33,815 --> 02:05:37,327 - Yes. - How did this happen? 1511 02:05:37,444 --> 02:05:42,498 Mr Feldenstein came to see Miss Hoffman at her apartment. 1512 02:05:43,116 --> 02:05:46,462 - Often? - Quite often. 1513 02:05:46,578 --> 02:05:50,458 Were there any occasions in which you noticed anything unusual? 1514 02:05:50,582 --> 02:05:52,634 Yes. 1515 02:05:52,751 --> 02:05:59,300 I saw Miss Hoffman kissing Mr Feldenstein at the door of her apartment. 1516 02:05:59,424 --> 02:06:04,229 - Was there any other occasion? - Yes. There was one. 1517 02:06:04,346 --> 02:06:08,985 - What was it? - I came to Miss Hoffman's apartment. 1518 02:06:09,100 --> 02:06:13,609 I wanted to clean up. I thought it was empty. 1519 02:06:14,898 --> 02:06:20,865 I saw Miss Hoffman sitting on Mr Feldenstein's lap. 1520 02:06:20,987 --> 02:06:24,285 Thank you, Mrs Lindnow. That's all. 1521 02:06:26,618 --> 02:06:28,670 Colonel Lawson? 1522 02:06:33,959 --> 02:06:36,094 Earphones, please. 1523 02:06:38,797 --> 02:06:43,436 Mrs Lindnow, what are your political affiliations? 1524 02:06:45,679 --> 02:06:47,102 Political? 1525 02:06:47,222 --> 02:06:49,357 Objection, Your Honour. 1526 02:06:51,059 --> 02:06:55,152 This witness' political affiliations have nothing to do with the testimony. 1527 02:06:55,272 --> 02:07:00,278 Colonel Lawson is again trying to appeal to the emotion of the court. 1528 02:07:00,402 --> 02:07:02,454 Objection overruled. 1529 02:07:02,571 --> 02:07:04,955 Now would you answer the question, please? 1530 02:07:05,073 --> 02:07:09,083 Were you a member of the National Socialist party? 1531 02:07:09,202 --> 02:07:11,883 Yes, I was. 1532 02:07:13,456 --> 02:07:15,462 We were forced to be. 1533 02:07:15,584 --> 02:07:17,920 "We were forced to be." 1534 02:07:18,962 --> 02:07:21,845 When did you become a member of the Nazi party? 1535 02:07:24,092 --> 02:07:27,520 1933. 1536 02:07:27,637 --> 02:07:34,269 Were all German nationals forced to become Nazi party members in 1933? 1537 02:07:35,395 --> 02:07:37,696 Please answer me, Mrs Lindnow! 1538 02:07:37,814 --> 02:07:42,239 Were you forced to become a member of the Nazi party? 1539 02:07:45,822 --> 02:07:47,661 That's all. 1540 02:07:48,950 --> 02:07:51,002 Witness is excused. 1541 02:08:06,968 --> 02:08:09,020 Defence may continue. 1542 02:08:16,645 --> 02:08:21,401 The defence calls Irene Hoffman Wallner to the stand. 1543 02:08:37,290 --> 02:08:39,342 Mrs Wallner, 1544 02:08:41,753 --> 02:08:43,889 you are still under oath. 1545 02:08:45,632 --> 02:08:48,681 Mrs Wallner, did you come here voluntarily? 1546 02:08:49,302 --> 02:08:52,600 Did you report voluntarily to speak as a witness? 1547 02:08:52,722 --> 02:08:54,774 Yes. 1548 02:08:55,850 --> 02:08:59,362 Is it not true that the prosecution asked you to come here? 1549 02:09:00,021 --> 02:09:03,616 That it was very disagreeable for you to come here? 1550 02:09:03,733 --> 02:09:07,874 It is always very disagreeable to live over those times. 1551 02:09:09,406 --> 02:09:12,704 That would be in agreement with the information I have, 1552 02:09:12,826 --> 02:09:16,373 that you did not want to come. Thank you, Mrs Wallner. 1553 02:09:16,538 --> 02:09:18,590 Mrs Wallner, 1554 02:09:21,126 --> 02:09:25,385 the Nuremberg laws were stated September 15th, 1935. 1555 02:09:26,172 --> 02:09:28,972 - Where were you at that time? - In Nuremberg. 1556 02:09:29,092 --> 02:09:31,144 Did you know these laws? 1557 02:09:31,261 --> 02:09:36,350 That a physical relationship with Jews was against the law? 1558 02:09:36,474 --> 02:09:37,483 Yes. 1559 02:09:37,601 --> 02:09:42,524 Were you aware that in Nuremberg, and in Nuremberg in particular, 1560 02:09:42,647 --> 02:09:47,571 not only a physical relationship with Jews was disdained, but every social contact? 1561 02:09:47,694 --> 02:09:49,450 Yes. 1562 02:09:49,571 --> 02:09:53,451 Were you aware that it might have some danger for you personally? 1563 02:09:53,575 --> 02:09:55,710 Yes, I was aware of it. 1564 02:09:55,827 --> 02:10:00,217 But how can you discard a friendship from day to day because of some... 1565 02:10:00,332 --> 02:10:05,682 That is another question, Mrs Wallner. I did not ask you that question. 1566 02:10:05,795 --> 02:10:09,592 - Were you aware of it? - Yes, I was aware. 1567 02:10:09,716 --> 02:10:12,397 Yet you still continued to see each other? 1568 02:10:12,510 --> 02:10:14,563 Yes. 1569 02:10:15,847 --> 02:10:21,102 It was brought out that Mr Feldenstein bought you candy and cigarettes. 1570 02:10:21,228 --> 02:10:22,236 Yes. 1571 02:10:22,354 --> 02:10:25,533 Remember that sometimes he bought you flowers? 1572 02:10:25,649 --> 02:10:28,662 Yes, he bought me many things. 1573 02:10:28,777 --> 02:10:30,912 That was because he was kind. 1574 02:10:31,863 --> 02:10:34,960 He was the kindest man I ever knew. 1575 02:10:37,535 --> 02:10:40,798 Do you know the witness, Mrs Elsa Lindnow? 1576 02:10:40,914 --> 02:10:42,421 Yes, I know her. 1577 02:10:42,540 --> 02:10:45,755 - Was she a cleaner at your apartment? - Yes. 1578 02:10:45,877 --> 02:10:48,926 Did Mr Feldenstein come to see you at your apartment? 1579 02:10:49,047 --> 02:10:51,728 - Yes. - How many times? 1580 02:10:53,260 --> 02:10:55,940 I don't remember. 1581 02:10:56,054 --> 02:10:58,937 - Several times? - Yes. 1582 02:10:59,057 --> 02:11:01,738 - Many times? - Many times. 1583 02:11:01,851 --> 02:11:04,437 - Did you kiss him? - Yes, I kissed him. 1584 02:11:04,563 --> 02:11:07,611 Was there more than one kiss? 1585 02:11:07,732 --> 02:11:10,200 Yes. 1586 02:11:10,318 --> 02:11:15,206 But it was not in the way you are trying to make it sound. 1587 02:11:15,323 --> 02:11:20,461 He was like a father to me. He was more than a father. 1588 02:11:20,579 --> 02:11:23,544 More than a father?! Did you sit on his lap? 1589 02:11:23,665 --> 02:11:26,513 Objection! Counsel is persecuting the witness 1590 02:11:26,626 --> 02:11:28,678 in the pretext of gaining testimony. 1591 02:11:30,005 --> 02:11:31,595 Objection overruled. 1592 02:11:31,715 --> 02:11:36,804 The defence is re-enacting what was a travesty of justice in the first place. 1593 02:11:36,928 --> 02:11:42,445 Colonel Lawson, the tribunal makes the rulings in this case, not the prosecution. 1594 02:11:42,559 --> 02:11:45,109 - You may proceed. - Did you sit on his lap? 1595 02:11:46,021 --> 02:11:52,237 Yes. But there was nothing wrong or ugly about it. 1596 02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,911 Did you sit on his lap? 1597 02:11:55,030 --> 02:11:56,620 Yes. But... 1598 02:11:56,740 --> 02:11:59,374 You sat on his lap! What else did you do? 1599 02:12:01,411 --> 02:12:05,468 There was nothing that you are trying to say, nothing like that. 1600 02:12:05,582 --> 02:12:08,465 What else did you do, Mrs Wallner? 1601 02:12:09,169 --> 02:12:11,304 What are you trying to do? 1602 02:12:13,048 --> 02:12:15,100 Are you trying to... 1603 02:12:17,469 --> 02:12:21,859 Why do you not let me speak the truth? 1604 02:12:21,973 --> 02:12:25,651 That's what we want, Mrs Wallner, the truth. The truth! 1605 02:12:25,769 --> 02:12:28,023 You admitted that you continued to see him. 1606 02:12:28,146 --> 02:12:30,697 You admitted that he came to your apartment. 1607 02:12:30,815 --> 02:12:34,410 You admitted you kissed him. You admitted you sat on his lap. 1608 02:12:34,527 --> 02:12:36,948 What else do you admit to? What else? 1609 02:12:37,072 --> 02:12:42,042 Nothing! There was nothing like you're trying to make it sound. 1610 02:12:42,160 --> 02:12:47,084 - What else? - There was nothing! Nothing. 1611 02:12:47,207 --> 02:12:49,129 Stop it! 1612 02:12:49,251 --> 02:12:50,378 Stop it! 1613 02:12:50,502 --> 02:12:52,886 What else do you admit to, Mrs Wallner? 1614 02:12:53,004 --> 02:12:55,056 Herr Rolfe! 1615 02:12:59,302 --> 02:13:01,354 Are we going to do this again? 1616 02:13:06,935 --> 02:13:12,986 Your Honour, the defendant has been under such stress that he is not aware... 1617 02:13:13,108 --> 02:13:16,821 I am aware. I am aware. 1618 02:13:16,945 --> 02:13:19,495 Your Honour, the defendant wishes to make a statement. 1619 02:13:19,614 --> 02:13:23,245 - I believe the defence has a right to... - Order, order. 1620 02:13:23,368 --> 02:13:25,420 Order! 1621 02:13:28,623 --> 02:13:31,553 Does the defendant wish to make a statement? 1622 02:13:31,668 --> 02:13:34,931 I wish to make a statement, yes. 1623 02:13:35,839 --> 02:13:38,603 Your Honour, the defence has the right to request... 1624 02:13:38,717 --> 02:13:41,730 The defendant has the right to make his statement now. 1625 02:13:41,845 --> 02:13:47,065 - I have to speak with my client. - He has the right to make it now! 1626 02:13:56,943 --> 02:14:00,158 Tribunal is adjourned until 10.30 tomorrow morning. 1627 02:14:05,035 --> 02:14:07,585 What are you doing? 1628 02:14:07,704 --> 02:14:10,967 What do you think you're trying to do? 1629 02:14:11,082 --> 02:14:16,006 They've had Göring, Frank, Streicher... That's over. 1630 02:14:16,796 --> 02:14:21,471 Do you think I have enjoyed being defence counsel during this trial? 1631 02:14:21,593 --> 02:14:25,306 There were things I had to do in that courtroom that made me cringe. 1632 02:14:25,430 --> 02:14:27,649 Why did I do them? 1633 02:14:27,766 --> 02:14:30,731 Because I want to leave the German people something. 1634 02:14:30,852 --> 02:14:33,237 I want to leave them a shred of dignity. 1635 02:14:33,355 --> 02:14:36,119 I want to call a halt to these proceedings. 1636 02:14:36,233 --> 02:14:39,365 If we allow them to discredit every German like you, 1637 02:14:39,486 --> 02:14:43,282 we lose the right to rule ourselves forever! 1638 02:14:43,865 --> 02:14:47,459 We have to look at the future. We can't look back now. 1639 02:14:47,577 --> 02:14:50,507 Do you want the Americans to stay here forever? 1640 02:14:50,622 --> 02:14:54,418 I could show you a picture of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 1641 02:14:54,542 --> 02:14:57,046 Thousands and thousands of burnt bodies. 1642 02:14:57,170 --> 02:14:59,222 Women and children. 1643 02:15:00,257 --> 02:15:03,603 Is that their superior morality? 1644 02:15:03,718 --> 02:15:06,103 Where do you think they take us? Do they know? 1645 02:15:06,221 --> 02:15:10,563 Do you think they have any concept of our problems? 1646 02:15:14,563 --> 02:15:16,698 What can I say to you? 1647 02:15:18,108 --> 02:15:21,157 What can I say to you to make you see? 1648 02:15:27,784 --> 02:15:30,916 There is nothing you can say. 1649 02:15:32,706 --> 02:15:33,714 Nothing. 1650 02:15:33,832 --> 02:15:37,046 Nothing has happened to alleviate the crisis. 1651 02:15:37,168 --> 02:15:39,256 The crisis reached a head this afternoon 1652 02:15:39,379 --> 02:15:42,926 when all rail travel between western zones and Berlin was stopped. 1653 02:15:43,049 --> 02:15:46,229 The blockade by land is now complete. 1654 02:15:52,851 --> 02:15:56,564 What do you think we're going to do, General? Withdraw? 1655 02:15:56,688 --> 02:15:59,322 We can't. If we withdraw under pressure, 1656 02:15:59,441 --> 02:16:01,861 our prestige all over the world is threatened. 1657 02:16:01,985 --> 02:16:04,370 The Communists will move in on every front. 1658 02:16:04,487 --> 02:16:09,956 What about these trials, General? How do you feel about them now? 1659 02:16:10,076 --> 02:16:12,461 We're committed to the trials, 1660 02:16:12,579 --> 02:16:16,459 but I think it would be realistic to accelerate them as much as possible. 1661 02:16:16,583 --> 02:16:20,177 What would happen if they fired on one of our planes, General? 1662 02:16:20,295 --> 02:16:24,804 We'll have to face that when it happens. There is no other answer to that now. 1663 02:16:28,220 --> 02:16:30,900 You should try the strudel. It's excellent here. 1664 02:16:31,014 --> 02:16:33,019 No, thanks. 1665 02:16:33,141 --> 02:16:37,282 Dan, I've just come back from Berlin, as you know. 1666 02:16:37,395 --> 02:16:41,821 I don't think this is going to be it. A lot of people do, but I don't. 1667 02:16:41,942 --> 02:16:47,826 But it is going to be a fight for survival... for the next ten years, maybe the next 20. 1668 02:16:47,948 --> 02:16:50,284 Germany is the key to that survival. 1669 02:16:50,408 --> 02:16:54,999 Any high-school student in geography can tell you that. 1670 02:16:55,121 --> 02:16:57,921 Just what are you trying to say, Senator? 1671 02:16:58,041 --> 02:17:00,461 What I'm trying to say is this: 1672 02:17:00,585 --> 02:17:04,263 while nobody's trying to influence your decision, 1673 02:17:04,381 --> 02:17:08,391 it's important that you realise this because it's a fact of life. 1674 02:17:08,510 --> 02:17:13,018 Let's face it, gentlemen, the handwriting is on the wall. 1675 02:17:13,139 --> 02:17:15,608 We're going to need all the help we can get. 1676 02:17:15,725 --> 02:17:20,234 We're going to need the support of the German people. 1677 02:17:20,355 --> 02:17:22,609 More strudel, gentlemen? 1678 02:17:26,820 --> 02:17:29,288 Herr Janning, you may proceed. 1679 02:17:34,327 --> 02:17:38,254 I wish to testify about the Feldenstein case 1680 02:17:39,457 --> 02:17:44,630 because it was the most significant trial of the period. 1681 02:17:44,754 --> 02:17:50,058 It is important not only for the tribunal to understand it, 1682 02:17:50,176 --> 02:17:52,941 but for the whole German people. 1683 02:17:53,805 --> 02:17:56,356 But in order to understand it, 1684 02:17:56,558 --> 02:18:01,113 one must understand the period in which it happened. 1685 02:18:02,147 --> 02:18:04,864 There was a fever over the land. 1686 02:18:04,983 --> 02:18:09,574 A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. 1687 02:18:10,739 --> 02:18:13,325 We had a democracy, yes, 1688 02:18:13,450 --> 02:18:16,415 but it was tom by elements within. 1689 02:18:17,037 --> 02:18:20,667 Above all, there was fear. 1690 02:18:20,790 --> 02:18:24,503 Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, 1691 02:18:24,628 --> 02:18:26,715 fear of our neighbours, 1692 02:18:26,838 --> 02:18:29,686 and fear of ourselves. 1693 02:18:31,051 --> 02:18:33,554 Only when you understand that 1694 02:18:33,678 --> 02:18:37,107 can you understand what Hitler meant to us. 1695 02:18:37,224 --> 02:18:39,276 Because he said to us: 1696 02:18:40,644 --> 02:18:44,950 "Lift your heads. Be proud to be German." 1697 02:18:45,065 --> 02:18:50,071 "There are devils among us... communists, liberals, Jews, Gypsies." 1698 02:18:50,195 --> 02:18:56,495 "Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed." 1699 02:18:56,618 --> 02:19:01,588 It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb. 1700 02:19:05,627 --> 02:19:08,047 What about those of us who knew better? 1701 02:19:08,171 --> 02:19:12,478 We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? 1702 02:19:12,592 --> 02:19:16,685 Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part? 1703 02:19:18,223 --> 02:19:20,773 Because we loved our country. 1704 02:19:21,977 --> 02:19:27,196 What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights? 1705 02:19:27,315 --> 02:19:31,871 What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights? 1706 02:19:31,987 --> 02:19:34,074 It is only a passing phase. 1707 02:19:34,197 --> 02:19:36,582 It is only a stage we are going through. 1708 02:19:36,700 --> 02:19:38,954 It will be discarded sooner or later. 1709 02:19:39,077 --> 02:19:43,419 Hitler himself will be discarded sooner or later. 1710 02:19:43,623 --> 02:19:46,838 "The country is in danger! We will march out of the shadows." 1711 02:19:46,960 --> 02:19:51,717 "We will go forward." "Forward" is the great password. 1712 02:19:54,509 --> 02:19:59,231 And history tells how well we succeeded, Your Honour. 1713 02:20:00,557 --> 02:20:03,985 We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. 1714 02:20:04,102 --> 02:20:09,536 The very elements of hate and power about Hitler that mesmerised Germany, 1715 02:20:09,649 --> 02:20:11,868 mesmerised the world! 1716 02:20:11,985 --> 02:20:15,579 We found ourselves with sudden powerful allies. 1717 02:20:15,697 --> 02:20:21,131 Things that had been denied to us as a democracy were open to us now. 1718 02:20:21,244 --> 02:20:25,835 The world said "Go ahead. Take it. Take it!" 1719 02:20:25,957 --> 02:20:29,837 "Take Sudetenland. Take the Rhineland. Remilitarise it." 1720 02:20:29,961 --> 02:20:32,429 "Take all of Austria! Take it." 1721 02:20:35,634 --> 02:20:39,395 And then one day we looked around 1722 02:20:39,512 --> 02:20:43,143 and found that we were in an even more terrible danger. 1723 02:20:43,266 --> 02:20:45,651 The ritual began in this courtroom, 1724 02:20:45,769 --> 02:20:50,324 swept over the land like a raging, roaring disease! 1725 02:20:50,440 --> 02:20:54,034 What was going to be a passing phase 1726 02:20:55,695 --> 02:20:57,950 had become the way of life. 1727 02:21:03,495 --> 02:21:05,547 Your Honour, 1728 02:21:06,915 --> 02:21:12,004 I was content to sit silent during this trial. 1729 02:21:13,296 --> 02:21:17,140 I was content to tend my roses. 1730 02:21:18,969 --> 02:21:24,486 I was even content to let counsel try to save my name... 1731 02:21:26,309 --> 02:21:30,532 until I realised that in order to save it 1732 02:21:31,606 --> 02:21:35,118 he would have to raise the spectre again. 1733 02:21:37,529 --> 02:21:39,664 You have seen him do it. 1734 02:21:39,781 --> 02:21:42,711 He has done it here in this courtroom. 1735 02:21:42,826 --> 02:21:47,749 He has suggested that the Third Reich worked for the benefit of people. 1736 02:21:47,872 --> 02:21:53,341 He has suggested that we sterilised men for the welfare of the country. 1737 02:21:53,461 --> 02:22:00,354 He suggested that perhaps the old Jew did sleep with the 16-year-old girl after all. 1738 02:22:00,468 --> 02:22:07,444 Once more, it is being done for love of country. 1739 02:22:10,061 --> 02:22:14,202 It is not easy to tell the truth. 1740 02:22:15,942 --> 02:22:20,118 But if there is to be any salvation for Germany, 1741 02:22:20,238 --> 02:22:23,999 we who know our guilt must admit it, 1742 02:22:24,117 --> 02:22:29,005 whatever the pain and humiliation. 1743 02:22:34,753 --> 02:22:40,471 I had reached my verdict on the Feldenstein case 1744 02:22:40,592 --> 02:22:43,142 before I ever came into the courtroom. 1745 02:22:43,261 --> 02:22:47,770 I would have found him guilty whatever the evidence. It was not a trial at all. 1746 02:22:47,891 --> 02:22:52,861 It was a sacrificial ritual, and Feldenstein the Jew was the helpless victim. 1747 02:22:52,979 --> 02:22:57,535 Your Honour, the defendant is not aware of what he is saying. 1748 02:22:57,651 --> 02:22:59,703 He is not aware of the implications. 1749 02:22:59,819 --> 02:23:02,500 I am aware. I am aware! 1750 02:23:04,407 --> 02:23:06,875 My counsel would have you believe 1751 02:23:06,993 --> 02:23:11,086 we were not aware of the concentration camps. 1752 02:23:11,206 --> 02:23:13,756 Not aware. 1753 02:23:13,875 --> 02:23:15,714 Where were we? 1754 02:23:15,835 --> 02:23:19,715 Where were we when Hitler began shrieking his hate in the Reichstag? 1755 02:23:19,839 --> 02:23:24,229 When our neighbours were dragged out in the middle of the night to Dachau? 1756 02:23:24,344 --> 02:23:27,725 Where were we when every village in Germany has a railroad terminal 1757 02:23:27,847 --> 02:23:33,482 where cattle cars were filled with children being carried off to their extermination? 1758 02:23:33,603 --> 02:23:36,700 Where were we when they cried out in the night to us? 1759 02:23:36,815 --> 02:23:40,029 Were we deaf? Dumb? Blind? 1760 02:23:40,151 --> 02:23:42,073 Your Honour, I must protest. 1761 02:23:42,195 --> 02:23:47,794 My counsel says we were not aware of the extermination of the millions. 1762 02:23:47,909 --> 02:23:50,210 He would give you the excuse 1763 02:23:50,328 --> 02:23:55,169 we were only aware of the extermination of the hundreds. 1764 02:23:55,959 --> 02:23:59,138 Does that make us any the less guilty? 1765 02:24:00,547 --> 02:24:03,050 Maybe we didn't know the details, 1766 02:24:03,174 --> 02:24:07,931 but if we didn't know, it was because we didn't want to know. 1767 02:24:08,054 --> 02:24:12,147 - Traitor! Traitor! - Order. Order. 1768 02:24:12,726 --> 02:24:14,695 Order! 1769 02:24:14,811 --> 02:24:18,109 Put that man back in his seat and keep him there. 1770 02:24:22,193 --> 02:24:24,958 I am going to tell them the truth. 1771 02:24:25,864 --> 02:24:31,499 I am going to tell them the truth if the whole world conspires against it. 1772 02:24:31,620 --> 02:24:37,219 I am going to tell them the truth about their Ministry of Justice. 1773 02:24:38,793 --> 02:24:43,764 Werner Lampe, an old man who cries into his Bible now. 1774 02:24:44,382 --> 02:24:47,431 An old man who profited by the property expropriation 1775 02:24:47,552 --> 02:24:51,230 of every man he sent to a concentration camp. 1776 02:24:51,348 --> 02:24:56,603 Friedrich Hofstetter, the good German, who knew how to take orders, 1777 02:24:56,728 --> 02:25:01,983 who sent men before him to be sterilised, like so many digits. 1778 02:25:04,110 --> 02:25:06,614 Emil Hahn, 1779 02:25:06,738 --> 02:25:09,787 the decayed, corrupt bigot, 1780 02:25:09,908 --> 02:25:13,087 obsessed by the evil within himself. 1781 02:25:18,291 --> 02:25:20,343 And Ernst Janning, 1782 02:25:22,379 --> 02:25:24,633 worse than any of them... 1783 02:25:25,465 --> 02:25:28,644 because he knew what they were, 1784 02:25:28,760 --> 02:25:31,097 and he went along with them. 1785 02:25:34,140 --> 02:25:38,233 Ernst Janning, who made his life... 1786 02:25:40,730 --> 02:25:42,782 excrement... 1787 02:25:44,568 --> 02:25:47,036 because he walked with them. 1788 02:27:13,323 --> 02:27:15,375 Your Honour, 1789 02:27:16,701 --> 02:27:21,506 it is my duty to defend Ernst Janning, 1790 02:27:22,582 --> 02:27:26,924 and yet Ernst Janning has said he is guilty. 1791 02:27:27,045 --> 02:27:31,221 There is no doubt he feels his guilt. 1792 02:27:32,926 --> 02:27:37,565 He made a great error in going along with the Nazi movement, 1793 02:27:38,181 --> 02:27:41,278 hoping it would be good for his country. 1794 02:27:41,393 --> 02:27:45,320 But, if he is to be found guilty, 1795 02:27:46,523 --> 02:27:50,782 there are others who also went along, 1796 02:27:51,861 --> 02:27:54,412 who also must be found guilty. 1797 02:27:56,199 --> 02:28:01,586 Ernst Janning said "We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams". 1798 02:28:03,582 --> 02:28:07,176 Why did we succeed, Your Honour? 1799 02:28:08,920 --> 02:28:11,684 What about the rest of the world? 1800 02:28:13,174 --> 02:28:17,351 Did it not know the intentions of the Third Reich? 1801 02:28:17,470 --> 02:28:22,359 Did it not hear the words of Hitler broadcast all over the world? 1802 02:28:22,475 --> 02:28:24,896 Did it not read his intentions in Mein Kampf, 1803 02:28:25,020 --> 02:28:28,234 published in every corner of the world? 1804 02:28:28,857 --> 02:28:32,155 Where is the responsibility of the Soviet Union, 1805 02:28:32,277 --> 02:28:38,375 who signed in 1939 the pact with Hitler that enabled him to make war? 1806 02:28:39,659 --> 02:28:42,423 Are we now to find Russia guilty? 1807 02:28:43,663 --> 02:28:47,045 Where is the responsibility of the Vatican, 1808 02:28:47,167 --> 02:28:50,631 who signed in 1933 the concordat with Hitler, 1809 02:28:50,754 --> 02:28:54,467 giving him his first tremendous prestige? 1810 02:28:55,216 --> 02:28:58,396 Are we now to find the Vatican guilty? 1811 02:28:59,721 --> 02:29:03,067 Where is the responsibility of the world leader Winston Churchill, 1812 02:29:03,183 --> 02:29:06,979 who said in an open letter to the London Times in 1938... 1813 02:29:07,103 --> 02:29:10,651 1938, Your Honour... 1814 02:29:11,733 --> 02:29:15,115 "Were England to suffer national disaster, I should pray to God 1815 02:29:15,237 --> 02:29:19,745 to send a man of the strength of mind and will of an Adolf Hitler." 1816 02:29:19,866 --> 02:29:23,045 Are we now to find Winston Churchill guilty? 1817 02:29:23,161 --> 02:29:26,507 Where is the responsibility of those American industrialists 1818 02:29:26,623 --> 02:29:29,304 who helped Hitler to rebuild his armaments, 1819 02:29:29,417 --> 02:29:32,715 and profited by that rebuilding? 1820 02:29:32,837 --> 02:29:36,017 Are we now to find the American industrialists guilty? 1821 02:29:36,132 --> 02:29:38,636 No, Your Honour. No. 1822 02:29:39,719 --> 02:29:41,771 Germany alone is not guilty. 1823 02:29:41,888 --> 02:29:45,566 The whole world is as responsible for Hitler as Germany. 1824 02:29:45,684 --> 02:29:48,614 It is an easy thing to condemn one man in the dock. 1825 02:29:48,728 --> 02:29:52,489 It is easy to speak of the "basic flaw" in the German character 1826 02:29:52,607 --> 02:29:54,659 that allowed Hitler to rise to power, 1827 02:29:54,776 --> 02:29:57,991 and at the same time ignore the "basic flaw" of character 1828 02:29:58,113 --> 02:30:01,956 that made the Russians sign pacts with him, Winston Churchill praise him, 1829 02:30:02,075 --> 02:30:05,587 American industrialists profit by him! 1830 02:30:08,498 --> 02:30:11,962 Ernst Janning said he is guilty. 1831 02:30:14,004 --> 02:30:19,971 If he is, Ernst Janning's guilt is the world's guilt. 1832 02:30:21,928 --> 02:30:25,025 No more and no less. 1833 02:30:38,653 --> 02:30:44,170 Major, we have to give the military governor every help we can give him. 1834 02:30:44,284 --> 02:30:47,463 We have to get 700 tons in the air a day. 1835 02:30:47,579 --> 02:30:49,631 700 tons. 1836 02:30:55,128 --> 02:30:57,180 This is some operation. 1837 02:30:59,507 --> 02:31:05,309 Did you ever think we'd be flying coal and tomatoes in these crates? 1838 02:31:07,474 --> 02:31:11,151 Tad, you and I have been friends a long time. 1839 02:31:11,269 --> 02:31:13,737 That's why I called you here. 1840 02:31:16,650 --> 02:31:20,493 What are you going to do in court tomorrow? 1841 02:31:22,739 --> 02:31:25,373 You know damn well what I'm going to do. 1842 02:31:25,909 --> 02:31:31,129 I know what you want to do... put them behind bars and throw away the key. 1843 02:31:31,248 --> 02:31:34,131 You know what's going on here now? 1844 02:31:35,335 --> 02:31:39,013 Yeah, I know what's going on. 1845 02:31:39,130 --> 02:31:41,848 You're an army man. You know what we're up against. 1846 02:31:41,967 --> 02:31:45,810 The others may not, but you do. I'll tell you the truth. 1847 02:31:45,929 --> 02:31:50,650 I don't know what's going to happen if they fire on one of those planes. 1848 02:31:50,767 --> 02:31:53,271 I don't know what's going to happen. 1849 02:31:53,395 --> 02:31:57,986 But if I do know this: if Berlin goes, Germany goes. 1850 02:31:58,108 --> 02:32:01,489 If Germany goes, Europe goes. 1851 02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:06,911 That's the way things stand. That's the way they stand. 1852 02:32:07,033 --> 02:32:10,545 Look, Matt. I'm going to go the limit. 1853 02:32:10,662 --> 02:32:14,008 And not you, not the Pentagon, not God on his throne is... 1854 02:32:14,124 --> 02:32:17,089 Who do you think you're talking to? 1855 02:32:18,545 --> 02:32:21,345 Who the hell do you think you're talking to? 1856 02:32:21,464 --> 02:32:24,478 When you were marching into Dachau, I was there too. 1857 02:32:24,593 --> 02:32:27,096 You think I'll ever forget it? 1858 02:32:28,138 --> 02:32:32,278 I'm not your commanding officer. I can't and won't influence your decision. 1859 02:32:32,392 --> 02:32:37,066 But I want to give this to you, and I want to give it to you straight. 1860 02:32:37,188 --> 02:32:40,368 We need the help of the German people. 1861 02:32:42,277 --> 02:32:48,458 You don't get their help by sentencing their leaders to stiff prison sentences. 1862 02:32:59,544 --> 02:33:03,886 Tad, the thing to do is survive, isn't it? 1863 02:33:04,925 --> 02:33:09,148 Survive as best we can, but survive. 1864 02:33:18,897 --> 02:33:21,116 Just for laughs, Matt. 1865 02:33:22,067 --> 02:33:24,701 What was the war all about? 1866 02:33:26,321 --> 02:33:28,373 What was it about? 1867 02:33:34,537 --> 02:33:38,797 That concludes presentation of documentary evidence 1868 02:33:38,917 --> 02:33:41,254 against these defendants. 1869 02:33:50,053 --> 02:33:52,105 Your Honours, 1870 02:33:53,181 --> 02:33:57,404 during the three years that have passed since the end of the war in Europe, 1871 02:33:58,270 --> 02:34:02,529 mankind has not crossed over into Jordan. 1872 02:34:03,441 --> 02:34:06,953 In our own country, fear of war has been revived 1873 02:34:07,070 --> 02:34:10,664 and we must look once more to our defences. 1874 02:34:11,575 --> 02:34:16,830 There's talk of cold war while men and women die in real wars, 1875 02:34:17,706 --> 02:34:25,725 and the echoes of persecution and atrocities will not be stilled. 1876 02:34:28,341 --> 02:34:34,807 These events cannot help but colour what happens in this courtroom. 1877 02:34:34,931 --> 02:34:38,644 But somewhere in the midst of these events, 1878 02:34:39,603 --> 02:34:46,234 the responsibility for the crimes that we brought forward during this trial 1879 02:34:46,359 --> 02:34:50,831 must be placed in true perspective. 1880 02:34:50,947 --> 02:34:57,211 And this is the decision that faces Your Honours. 1881 02:34:57,329 --> 02:35:00,259 It is the dilemma of our times. 1882 02:35:02,584 --> 02:35:08,350 It is a dilemma that rests with you. 1883 02:35:15,055 --> 02:35:17,107 The prosecution rests. 1884 02:35:38,495 --> 02:35:42,552 The defendants may now make their final statements. 1885 02:35:46,962 --> 02:35:50,972 Defendant Emil Hahn may address the tribunal. 1886 02:35:55,971 --> 02:36:01,226 Your Honours, I do not evade the responsibility for my actions. 1887 02:36:02,060 --> 02:36:06,900 On the contrary, I stand by them before the entire world. 1888 02:36:07,774 --> 02:36:11,368 But I will not follow the policy of others. 1889 02:36:12,195 --> 02:36:14,876 I will not say of our policy today that it was wrong 1890 02:36:14,990 --> 02:36:18,336 when yesterday I say it was right. 1891 02:36:18,451 --> 02:36:21,169 Germany was fighting for its life. 1892 02:36:21,288 --> 02:36:24,502 Certain measures were needed to protect it from its enemies. 1893 02:36:24,624 --> 02:36:27,757 I cannot say that I am sorry we applied those measures. 1894 02:36:28,378 --> 02:36:31,226 We were a bulwark against Bolshevism. 1895 02:36:31,339 --> 02:36:35,017 We were a pillar of Western culture. 1896 02:36:35,468 --> 02:36:39,941 A bulwark and a pillar the West may yet wish to retain. 1897 02:36:44,269 --> 02:36:49,868 The defendant Friedrich Hofstetter may address the tribunal. 1898 02:36:56,114 --> 02:36:59,994 I have served my country throughout my life, 1899 02:37:00,118 --> 02:37:02,669 and in whatever position I was assigned to, 1900 02:37:02,787 --> 02:37:07,544 in faithfulness, with a pure heart and without malice. 1901 02:37:08,501 --> 02:37:13,757 I followed the concept that I believed to be the highest in my profession, 1902 02:37:13,882 --> 02:37:15,969 the concept that says: 1903 02:37:16,092 --> 02:37:22,392 to sacrifice one's own sense of justice to the authoritative legal order, 1904 02:37:22,515 --> 02:37:25,280 to ask only what the law is, 1905 02:37:26,144 --> 02:37:29,193 and not to ask whether or not it is also justice. 1906 02:37:30,148 --> 02:37:34,028 As a judge, I could do no other. 1907 02:37:34,152 --> 02:37:38,458 I believe Your Honours will find me, and millions of Germans like me, 1908 02:37:38,573 --> 02:37:41,752 who believed they were doing their duty to their country, 1909 02:37:41,868 --> 02:37:45,047 to be not guilty. 1910 02:37:50,043 --> 02:37:53,341 The defendant Werner Lampe may address the tribunal. 1911 02:38:01,429 --> 02:38:03,481 Your Honours... 1912 02:38:14,693 --> 02:38:16,745 Your Honours... 1913 02:38:35,171 --> 02:38:38,434 The defendant Ernst Janning may address the tribunal. 1914 02:38:48,768 --> 02:38:52,150 I have nothing to add to what I have said. 1915 02:39:02,949 --> 02:39:06,497 Testimony has been received, final arguments have been heard. 1916 02:39:06,620 --> 02:39:12,386 There remains nothing now but the task of the tribunal to render its decision. 1917 02:39:12,500 --> 02:39:16,558 The tribunal will recess until further notification. 1918 02:39:37,692 --> 02:39:40,077 I've collected precedents and arguments 1919 02:39:40,195 --> 02:39:42,532 that have a bearing on the basis of the case, 1920 02:39:42,656 --> 02:39:46,748 which is the conflict between allegiance to international law 1921 02:39:46,868 --> 02:39:49,882 and to the laws of one's own country. 1922 02:39:49,996 --> 02:39:54,505 Dan, we have a mountain of material to go over here. 1923 02:39:54,626 --> 02:39:56,845 - What are you looking at, Dan? - Mm? 1924 02:39:56,962 --> 02:40:02,561 I was looking at some of these pictures attached to the warrants for arrest. 1925 02:40:02,676 --> 02:40:04,728 What pictures? 1926 02:40:05,971 --> 02:40:09,814 There's Petersen before they operated on him. 1927 02:40:09,933 --> 02:40:11,938 Here's Irene Hoffman. 1928 02:40:12,060 --> 02:40:15,025 She really was 16 once, wasn't she? 1929 02:40:16,398 --> 02:40:18,450 Feldenstein. 1930 02:40:20,569 --> 02:40:25,492 And here's a boy... he certainly couldn't have been more than 14... 1931 02:40:25,615 --> 02:40:28,712 executed for saying things against the Third Reich. 1932 02:40:28,827 --> 02:40:32,540 "By order of Justice Friedrich Hofstetter." 1933 02:40:32,664 --> 02:40:37,089 If I may say so, more pertinent to the legal basis of the case, 1934 02:40:37,210 --> 02:40:39,595 I have the address of the French prosecutor 1935 02:40:39,713 --> 02:40:42,347 before the international military tribunal. 1936 02:40:42,465 --> 02:40:46,060 "It is obvious that, in the state organised along modem lines, 1937 02:40:46,177 --> 02:40:50,567 responsibility is confined to those who act directly for the state." 1938 02:40:50,682 --> 02:40:54,609 "Since they alone are in a position to judge the legitimacy of the given orders, 1939 02:40:54,728 --> 02:40:57,196 they alone can be prosecuted." 1940 02:40:57,314 --> 02:40:59,947 I have another from Professor Jahreiss... 1941 02:41:00,066 --> 02:41:03,578 "Legal aspects: trial of the major war criminals". 1942 02:41:03,695 --> 02:41:06,910 On the basis of these, I don't see where the prosecution 1943 02:41:07,032 --> 02:41:10,164 has put forth a really clear-cut case against the defence 1944 02:41:10,285 --> 02:41:12,788 pertaining to the charges in the indictment. 1945 02:41:12,913 --> 02:41:17,053 Regardless of the acts committed, we cannot make the interpretation 1946 02:41:17,167 --> 02:41:23,798 that these defendants are really responsible for crimes against humanity. 1947 02:41:24,591 --> 02:41:28,103 - What do you think, Dan? - We've been going over this all day! 1948 02:41:28,220 --> 02:41:30,272 If it isn't clear now... 1949 02:41:31,723 --> 02:41:34,772 Aren't you going to look at these precedents? 1950 02:41:34,893 --> 02:41:37,443 Aren't you interested at all? 1951 02:41:39,439 --> 02:41:44,529 I'm interested, Curtiss. You were speaking of crimes against humanity, 1952 02:41:44,653 --> 02:41:47,999 saying the defendants were not responsible for their acts. 1953 02:41:48,114 --> 02:41:51,163 I'd like you to explain that to me. 1954 02:41:51,284 --> 02:41:54,298 - I've just been explaining it. - Maybe. 1955 02:41:54,412 --> 02:41:59,846 But all I've heard is a lot of legalistic double talk and rationalisation. 1956 02:41:59,960 --> 02:42:03,554 You know, when I first became a judge 1957 02:42:03,672 --> 02:42:07,385 I knew there were certain people in town I wasn't supposed to touch. 1958 02:42:07,509 --> 02:42:11,649 I knew that if I was to remain a judge, this was so. 1959 02:42:12,639 --> 02:42:15,604 But how in God's name do you expect me to look the other way 1960 02:42:15,725 --> 02:42:17,565 at the murder of six million people? 1961 02:42:17,686 --> 02:42:21,233 - I'm sure he didn't mean... - I'm not asking you to look the other way. 1962 02:42:21,356 --> 02:42:25,698 I'm asking you what good is it going to do to pursue this policy? 1963 02:42:28,321 --> 02:42:32,830 Curtiss, you were saying that the men are not responsible for their acts. 1964 02:42:32,951 --> 02:42:35,205 You're going to have to explain that to me. 1965 02:42:35,328 --> 02:42:38,294 You're going to have to explain it very carefully. 1966 02:42:45,922 --> 02:42:47,844 The tribunal is now in session. 1967 02:42:47,966 --> 02:42:53,981 God bless the United States of America and this honourable tribunal. 1968 02:43:12,949 --> 02:43:16,331 The trial conducted before this tribunal began over eight months ago. 1969 02:43:16,453 --> 02:43:20,629 The record of evidence is more than 10,000 pages long, 1970 02:43:20,749 --> 02:43:25,304 and final arguments of counsel have been concluded. 1971 02:43:26,838 --> 02:43:30,101 Simple murders and atrocities 1972 02:43:30,216 --> 02:43:34,891 do not constitute the gravamen of the charges in this indictment. 1973 02:43:35,013 --> 02:43:40,363 Rather, the charge is that of conscious participation 1974 02:43:40,477 --> 02:43:46,278 in a nationwide, government-organised system of cruelty and injustice, 1975 02:43:47,108 --> 02:43:53,870 in violation of every moral and legal principle known to all civilised nations. 1976 02:43:54,824 --> 02:43:59,047 The tribunal has carefully studied the record 1977 02:43:59,162 --> 02:44:03,671 and found therein abundant evidence 1978 02:44:03,792 --> 02:44:10,222 to support beyond a reasonable doubt the charges against these defendants. 1979 02:44:21,601 --> 02:44:26,489 Herr Rolfe, in his very skilful defence, 1980 02:44:27,148 --> 02:44:32,119 has asserted that there are others 1981 02:44:32,237 --> 02:44:35,167 who must share the ultimate responsibility 1982 02:44:35,282 --> 02:44:37,832 for what happened here in Germany. 1983 02:44:37,951 --> 02:44:40,003 There is truth in this. 1984 02:44:41,162 --> 02:44:47,426 The real complaining party at the bar in this courtroom is civilisation. 1985 02:44:49,004 --> 02:44:53,974 But the tribunal does say that the men in the dock 1986 02:44:54,092 --> 02:44:57,189 are responsible for their actions. 1987 02:44:59,014 --> 02:45:02,691 Men who sat in black robes, 1988 02:45:04,185 --> 02:45:07,069 in judgment on other men. 1989 02:45:09,274 --> 02:45:15,787 Men who took part in the enactment of laws and decrees, 1990 02:45:18,742 --> 02:45:22,965 the purpose of which was the extermination of human beings. 1991 02:45:23,079 --> 02:45:26,176 Men who, in executive positions, 1992 02:45:26,291 --> 02:45:31,380 actively participated in the enforcement of these laws, 1993 02:45:31,504 --> 02:45:34,719 illegal even under German law. 1994 02:45:40,972 --> 02:45:47,983 The principle of criminal law in every civilised society 1995 02:45:48,104 --> 02:45:50,441 has this in common: 1996 02:45:51,942 --> 02:45:57,292 any person who sways another to commit murder, 1997 02:45:58,782 --> 02:46:05,212 any person who furnishes the lethal weapon for the purpose of the crime, 1998 02:46:06,456 --> 02:46:10,169 any person who is an accessory to the crime, 1999 02:46:11,920 --> 02:46:13,972 is guilty. 2000 02:46:18,176 --> 02:46:24,357 Herr Rolfe further asserts that the defendant Janning 2001 02:46:26,226 --> 02:46:28,445 was an extraordinary jurist 2002 02:46:28,562 --> 02:46:32,025 and acted in what he thought was the best interest of his country. 2003 02:46:32,148 --> 02:46:34,485 There is truth in this also. 2004 02:46:36,528 --> 02:46:41,083 Janning, to be sure, is a tragic figure. 2005 02:46:41,658 --> 02:46:45,252 We believe he loathed the evil he did. 2006 02:46:45,370 --> 02:46:48,751 But compassion for the present torture of his soul 2007 02:46:48,873 --> 02:46:51,175 must not beget forgetfulness 2008 02:46:51,293 --> 02:46:57,758 of the torture and the death of millions by the government of which he was part. 2009 02:46:57,882 --> 02:47:01,845 Janning's record and his fate illuminate the most shattering truth 2010 02:47:01,970 --> 02:47:04,271 that has emerged from this trial. 2011 02:47:04,389 --> 02:47:09,739 If he, and all of the other defendants, had been degraded perverts, 2012 02:47:09,853 --> 02:47:16,153 if all of the leaders of the Third Reich had been sadistic monsters and maniacs, 2013 02:47:16,276 --> 02:47:20,369 then these events would have no more moral significance 2014 02:47:20,488 --> 02:47:24,083 than an earthquake, or any other natural catastrophe. 2015 02:47:24,200 --> 02:47:30,334 But this trial has shown that under a national crisis 2016 02:47:30,457 --> 02:47:35,297 ordinary, even able and extraordinary men, 2017 02:47:35,420 --> 02:47:39,347 can delude themselves into the commission of crimes 2018 02:47:39,466 --> 02:47:42,764 so vast and heinous that they beggar the imagination. 2019 02:47:42,886 --> 02:47:46,148 No one who has sat through the trial can ever forget them. 2020 02:47:47,557 --> 02:47:51,188 Men sterilised because of political belief. 2021 02:47:51,311 --> 02:47:54,609 A mockery made of friendship and faith. 2022 02:47:54,731 --> 02:47:56,783 The murder of children. 2023 02:47:57,984 --> 02:48:00,120 How easily it can happen. 2024 02:48:01,947 --> 02:48:04,117 There are those in our own country too 2025 02:48:04,241 --> 02:48:08,962 who today speak of the protection of country, of survival. 2026 02:48:09,079 --> 02:48:12,425 A decision must be made in the life of every nation. 2027 02:48:12,540 --> 02:48:16,633 At the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat, 2028 02:48:16,753 --> 02:48:20,633 then it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, 2029 02:48:20,757 --> 02:48:23,438 to rest survival upon what is expedient, 2030 02:48:23,551 --> 02:48:25,853 to look the other way. 2031 02:48:26,846 --> 02:48:32,897 Well, the answer to that is... survival as what? 2032 02:48:33,019 --> 02:48:35,321 A country isn't a rock. 2033 02:48:35,438 --> 02:48:38,072 It's not an extension of one's self. 2034 02:48:38,191 --> 02:48:40,327 It's what it stands for. 2035 02:48:40,443 --> 02:48:46,874 It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult. 2036 02:48:48,994 --> 02:48:51,924 Before the people of the world, 2037 02:48:52,038 --> 02:48:59,014 let it now be noted that here, in our decision, this is what we stand for: 2038 02:49:00,088 --> 02:49:02,769 justice, truth... 2039 02:49:05,468 --> 02:49:08,648 and the value of a single human being. 2040 02:49:19,399 --> 02:49:23,030 The marshal will produce before the tribunal the defendant Hahn. 2041 02:49:25,947 --> 02:49:28,083 Emil Hahn, 2042 02:49:28,199 --> 02:49:32,838 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2043 02:49:32,954 --> 02:49:38,341 Today you sentence me. Tomorrow the Bolsheviks sentence you! 2044 02:49:43,340 --> 02:49:50,102 The marshal will produce the defendant Hofstetter before the tribunal. 2045 02:49:51,056 --> 02:49:53,108 Fried rich Hofstetter, 2046 02:49:53,225 --> 02:49:59,322 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2047 02:50:02,275 --> 02:50:08,077 The marshal will produce the defendant Lampe before the tribunal. 2048 02:50:12,494 --> 02:50:14,546 Werner Lampe, 2049 02:50:15,830 --> 02:50:21,928 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2050 02:50:31,388 --> 02:50:36,027 The marshal will produce the defendant Ernst Janning before the tribunal. 2051 02:50:51,449 --> 02:50:53,501 Ernst Janning, 2052 02:50:54,744 --> 02:51:00,344 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2053 02:51:06,089 --> 02:51:08,141 He doesn't understand. 2054 02:51:09,301 --> 02:51:11,769 He just doesn't understand. 2055 02:51:12,470 --> 02:51:14,522 He understands. 2056 02:51:28,028 --> 02:51:30,496 Justice Ives dissenting. 2057 02:51:32,741 --> 02:51:38,507 I wish to point out strongly my dissenting vote from the decision of this tribunal 2058 02:51:38,622 --> 02:51:44,470 as stated by Justice Haywood, and in which Justice Norris concurred. 2059 02:51:44,586 --> 02:51:47,551 The issue of the actions of the defendants, 2060 02:51:47,672 --> 02:51:51,848 who believed they were acting in the best interests of their country, 2061 02:51:51,968 --> 02:51:57,271 is an issue that cannot be decided in a courtroom alone. 2062 02:51:57,390 --> 02:52:00,653 It can only be decided objectively, 2063 02:52:00,769 --> 02:52:05,324 in years to come, in the true perspective of history. 2064 02:52:12,364 --> 02:52:14,998 Where shall I put these books, Your Honour? 2065 02:52:15,116 --> 02:52:18,296 Put them in the trunk, Mr Halbestadt. 2066 02:52:20,372 --> 02:52:24,713 Your Honour, here's something for you to have on the plane. 2067 02:52:24,834 --> 02:52:29,639 Oh, no. If you give me any more food, I won't have any room for anything else. 2068 02:52:29,756 --> 02:52:32,057 But it's strudel, the way you like it. 2069 02:52:32,175 --> 02:52:35,853 - Thank you. Thank you for everything. - Ja, ja. 2070 02:52:35,971 --> 02:52:38,023 - I'll put it in the car. - Thanks. 2071 02:52:38,139 --> 02:52:43,443 Tickets, passport, immunisation. I'll have your boarding pass at the airport. 2072 02:52:43,562 --> 02:52:45,946 See you there no later than three o'clock. 2073 02:52:46,064 --> 02:52:48,912 Oh, and give my regards to Miss... what was her name? 2074 02:52:49,025 --> 02:52:51,362 Scheffler. Elsa. 2075 02:52:51,486 --> 02:52:54,037 - That's one you owe me. - What do you mean? 2076 02:52:54,155 --> 02:52:59,209 Americans aren't very popular in Nuremberg this morning. 2077 02:53:58,637 --> 02:54:01,851 - Good afternoon, Your Honour. - Good afternoon. 2078 02:54:03,141 --> 02:54:07,780 I came here at the request of my client, Ernst Janning. 2079 02:54:09,481 --> 02:54:12,115 He wishes to see you. 2080 02:54:12,234 --> 02:54:15,117 I'm just leaving for the airport. 2081 02:54:16,321 --> 02:54:19,915 He says it would mean a great deal to him. 2082 02:54:26,248 --> 02:54:30,174 Have you heard about the verdict in the IG Farben case? 2083 02:54:30,293 --> 02:54:34,765 Most of them were acquitted. The others received light sentences. 2084 02:54:34,881 --> 02:54:39,141 - The verdict came in today. - No, I hadn't heard. 2085 02:54:39,261 --> 02:54:41,811 I will make you a wager. 2086 02:54:41,930 --> 02:54:44,398 I don't make wagers. 2087 02:54:44,516 --> 02:54:46,272 A gentlemen's wager. 2088 02:54:47,644 --> 02:54:53,410 In five years, the men you sentenced to life imprisonment will be free. 2089 02:54:56,444 --> 02:55:00,667 Herr Rolfe, I have admired your work in the courtroom for many months. 2090 02:55:00,782 --> 02:55:05,005 You are particularly brilliant in your use of logic. 2091 02:55:05,120 --> 02:55:10,293 So, what you suggest may very well happen. 2092 02:55:10,417 --> 02:55:14,759 It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. 2093 02:55:15,755 --> 02:55:19,018 But to be logical is not to be right. 2094 02:55:19,134 --> 02:55:22,432 And nothing on God's earth could ever make it right. 2095 02:55:33,356 --> 02:55:35,408 Someone to see you. 2096 02:55:47,537 --> 02:55:49,589 Herr Janning. 2097 02:55:51,041 --> 02:55:53,093 Judge Haywood. 2098 02:55:54,836 --> 02:55:57,055 Please, sit down. 2099 02:55:57,797 --> 02:56:01,261 Thank you. You wanted to see me. 2100 02:56:01,384 --> 02:56:05,644 Yes. There is something I want to give you. 2101 02:56:05,764 --> 02:56:07,816 A record. 2102 02:56:09,184 --> 02:56:13,111 A record of my cases, the ones I remember. 2103 02:56:14,606 --> 02:56:18,616 I want to give them to someone I can trust, 2104 02:56:18,735 --> 02:56:22,033 someone I felt I got to know during the trial. 2105 02:56:28,536 --> 02:56:30,589 Thank you. 2106 02:56:32,666 --> 02:56:35,050 I'll take good care of them. 2107 02:56:35,168 --> 02:56:39,973 I know the pressures that had been brought upon you. 2108 02:56:40,090 --> 02:56:42,474 You will be criticised greatly. 2109 02:56:42,592 --> 02:56:45,974 Your decision will not be a popular one. 2110 02:56:47,889 --> 02:56:51,152 But, if it means anything to you, 2111 02:56:51,268 --> 02:56:56,785 you have the respect of at least one of the men you convicted. 2112 02:56:56,898 --> 02:57:02,664 By all that is right in this world, your verdict was a just one. 2113 02:57:04,364 --> 02:57:06,416 Thank you. 2114 02:57:07,909 --> 02:57:12,251 What you said in the courtroom, it needed to be said. 2115 02:57:12,372 --> 02:57:14,009 Judge Haywood... 2116 02:57:17,419 --> 02:57:19,720 The reason I asked you to come... 2117 02:57:27,470 --> 02:57:32,026 Those people, those millions of people, 2118 02:57:34,185 --> 02:57:37,567 I never knew it would come to that. 2119 02:57:37,689 --> 02:57:41,651 You must believe it. You must believe it. 2120 02:57:44,905 --> 02:57:48,784 Herr Janning, it came to that 2121 02:57:48,909 --> 02:57:53,713 the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent. 176331

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