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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,020 --> 00:00:03,940 Okay, okay. We'll do the whole thing again. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,240 That was cooking though, man. That was a good, that was... 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,190 - Don't worry about it, let's do it again. 4 00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:11,480 One. Two. 5 00:00:11,490 --> 00:00:14,320 One, two, three! 6 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,050 ♪ Sing a simple song ♪ 7 00:00:25,250 --> 00:00:26,710 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ 8 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:31,220 Many people think of him as their hero. 9 00:00:31,420 --> 00:00:33,405 Making music that sounded like no one else's. 10 00:00:33,605 --> 00:00:35,390 The most innovative musician on the rock scene. 11 00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:38,440 - Hit after hit after hit. - The one and only Sly Stone. 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,480 ♪ You're in trouble when you find it's hard for you to smile ♪ 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,520 ♪ A simple song might make it better for a little ♪ 14 00:00:47,860 --> 00:00:50,820 ♪ Yeah ♪ 15 00:00:51,980 --> 00:00:55,900 ♪ Sing it with your sister, sing it sing it sista, yah, yah ♪ 16 00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:58,870 It can't be overstated how massively popular 17 00:00:59,070 --> 00:01:01,080 Sly and the Family Stone was. 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,260 ♪ 19 00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:07,370 At that time, a mixed group 20 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:10,170 of Black and white girls and boys was a new thing. 21 00:01:10,370 --> 00:01:11,600 ♪ Hey, music lover ♪ 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,710 They sounded like nothing else sounds. 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,220 - ♪ All I want to do ♪ - They was doing psychedelic. 24 00:01:17,420 --> 00:01:18,690 - R&B, - Pop. Rock. 25 00:01:18,890 --> 00:01:20,330 - Church. - Blues. 26 00:01:20,530 --> 00:01:21,770 - Soul. - Funk. 27 00:01:21,970 --> 00:01:23,720 Sly and the Family Stone was a family. 28 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,900 We were friends. 29 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:26,990 - But Sly was the creator. - Writer. 30 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:28,560 - Producer. - Multi-instrument. 31 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:29,665 - Player. - Composer. 32 00:01:29,865 --> 00:01:30,570 - Songwriter. - Thinker. 33 00:01:30,770 --> 00:01:32,270 - Poet. - He opened a portal like, 34 00:01:32,470 --> 00:01:33,160 "Oh, yeah, come this way." 35 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,320 ♪ Thank you for letting me be myself again ♪ 36 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:39,620 He was an innovator. 37 00:01:39,820 --> 00:01:42,630 He was the first artist to use a drum machine in a hit record. 38 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:45,870 - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 39 00:01:46,070 --> 00:01:48,220 We were all heavily influenced by Sly. 40 00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:51,920 There's no Prince and the Revolution without Sly and the Family Stone. 41 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,630 His songs have been sampled by tons of artists. 42 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:56,770 ♪ Ahh ♪ 43 00:01:56,970 --> 00:01:58,470 ♪ I'm gonna knock you out ♪ 44 00:01:58,670 --> 00:01:59,350 ♪ Huh! ♪ 45 00:01:59,550 --> 00:02:02,550 The drums reign supreme in this motherfucker. 46 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,390 That's how that shit sound. 47 00:02:05,020 --> 00:02:07,930 ♪ You can make it if you try ♪ 48 00:02:07,940 --> 00:02:11,440 He didn't have just hits. He had culture-changing hits. 49 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:16,230 ♪ I am everyday people ♪ 50 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,040 He was the highlight of Woodstock. 51 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,460 - ♪ Want to take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 52 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,330 Sly was bringing people together at a time when this country 53 00:02:24,530 --> 00:02:26,080 was tearing itself apart. 54 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:27,000 We want a fight. 55 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:28,380 He is a bona fide... 56 00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:29,660 - Groundbreaking. - Brilliant. 57 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:30,840 Genius. 58 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,525 In the beginning, it was all about the music. 59 00:02:33,725 --> 00:02:36,210 Then it became all about other things. 60 00:02:37,510 --> 00:02:38,490 - Pressure. - Fear. 61 00:02:38,690 --> 00:02:39,670 - Guilt. - Love. 62 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,560 - Pain. - Fame. 63 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:41,825 - Doubt. - Identity. 64 00:02:42,025 --> 00:02:43,090 - Anxiety. - Insecurity. 65 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:44,510 - Struggle. - Survival. 66 00:02:51,770 --> 00:02:53,160 You know, Sly, let me do this. 67 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,690 So, I don't want you to get out of your light. 68 00:02:55,890 --> 00:02:56,950 - Okay. - Does that screw you up? 69 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:58,820 - No, I'm fine. Yeah. - You can still use that? 70 00:02:59,020 --> 00:03:00,540 Hey, Jimmy, can I have a drink? 71 00:03:00,740 --> 00:03:04,070 - What's this? - Uh, rum or something like that. 72 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,330 - Rum? - Yeah, or something. 73 00:03:05,530 --> 00:03:07,380 - Okay? Okay. - We're rolling tape. 74 00:03:07,580 --> 00:03:09,700 You have speed? 75 00:03:09,710 --> 00:03:11,130 - Yep. - Alright. 76 00:03:11,330 --> 00:03:13,260 Sly, you were born Sylvester Stewart, 77 00:03:13,460 --> 00:03:15,750 and your music career goes all the way back to the age 78 00:03:15,950 --> 00:03:18,250 - of something like four years old. - Right. 79 00:03:18,260 --> 00:03:20,260 You formed Sly and the Family Stone 80 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:22,230 - in the late '60s. - Yeah. 81 00:03:22,430 --> 00:03:24,680 You've been called by everybody that I've interviewed 82 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,705 and everything that I've read, a musical genius. 83 00:03:27,905 --> 00:03:30,730 You are at the place that every aspiring musician 84 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:32,150 - in this country wants to be. - Mm-hmm. 85 00:03:32,350 --> 00:03:34,850 There are, uh, guys and girls all over this country 86 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:36,700 trying to get to the top. 87 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:38,900 Then you get there, and you blow it. 88 00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:42,040 I didn't say all that. 89 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,990 - No, I'm asking you. - I didn't blow nothing. 90 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:45,260 - Where'd you hear that? - But were you 91 00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:46,530 consciously trying to do that or...? 92 00:03:46,730 --> 00:03:47,830 No, no. 93 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:06,340 So, I have a theory that for Black artists in America, 94 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:09,930 success can be more frightening than failure. 95 00:04:10,130 --> 00:04:11,900 You know, the world's watching you, 96 00:04:12,100 --> 00:04:14,890 analyzing you, projecting stuff onto you. 97 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:18,940 And I think that Sly was kind of the first Black artist 98 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:21,230 to go through that so publicly, 99 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,900 at a level where there was a burden 100 00:04:24,100 --> 00:04:26,155 that came with his genius. 101 00:04:26,355 --> 00:04:28,210 So, I want to start there. 102 00:04:28,410 --> 00:04:33,790 Can you tell me what you think Black genius is? 103 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:38,920 Black genius? 104 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,180 Can you define Black genius? 105 00:04:45,380 --> 00:04:48,230 Wow. Damn. 106 00:04:48,430 --> 00:04:50,060 What is Black genius? 107 00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:53,650 Fuck... 108 00:04:53,850 --> 00:04:57,860 Do you believe in the concept of Black genius? 109 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:02,320 I love it when it happens. 110 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,410 ♪ 111 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:16,660 San Francisco is a swinging place. 112 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,445 Early '60s, it was an amazing time in San Francisco. 113 00:05:21,645 --> 00:05:25,050 It was an international intersection of cultures. 114 00:05:26,090 --> 00:05:28,300 There was music all up and down Broadway Street. 115 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:31,720 ♪ Down here, we're loving life ♪ 116 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:36,390 There was a lot of experimentation musically 117 00:05:36,590 --> 00:05:37,620 coming out of the Bay area. 118 00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:38,650 And a lot of diversity. 119 00:05:38,850 --> 00:05:41,400 There was so much possibility, you felt it. 120 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,330 And Sly was in the middle of it. 121 00:05:43,530 --> 00:05:45,620 He had a very popular radio show. 122 00:05:45,820 --> 00:05:47,410 I used to listen to him. Everybody did. 123 00:05:47,610 --> 00:05:50,790 Sly Stone, KSOL San Francisco. 124 00:05:50,990 --> 00:05:53,495 I definitely want you to be a magnificent stone. 125 00:05:53,695 --> 00:05:56,200 Everybody everywhere knew Sly. 126 00:05:56,210 --> 00:05:59,120 He was the most popular DJ in the Bay area. 127 00:05:59,130 --> 00:06:02,540 ♪ Sly Stone is my name ♪ 128 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:04,430 ♪ Playing records is my game ♪ 129 00:06:04,630 --> 00:06:06,640 He did things that nobody else was doing. 130 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,060 Oh, look what you've done. Oh! 131 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:12,400 On the radio, Sly was fantastic. 132 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,980 You felt like you were tuning in to a different world. 133 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:18,770 Do you believe in flying saucers? Are we being invaded from outer space? 134 00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:20,400 When Sly was a DJ, I used to go over there 135 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,820 and hang out with him a lot, you know, because he was funny. 136 00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:25,370 Fifty-six degrees in San Francisco, 137 00:06:25,570 --> 00:06:27,160 and I think it will rain tomorrow. 138 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,950 So, Sly doesn't even know what he's talking about. 139 00:06:30,150 --> 00:06:32,540 But he was serious about music. 140 00:06:32,740 --> 00:06:35,910 I'd write on the radio, that's what I did. I wrote songs. 141 00:06:36,110 --> 00:06:41,330 ♪ Now I get up when the sun goes down ♪ 142 00:06:43,210 --> 00:06:48,600 ♪ I dress real tough, go out on the town ♪ 143 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,060 He was playing on Broadway in a lot of bands, 144 00:06:51,260 --> 00:06:53,520 and then he started producing several other bands 145 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,390 with Tom Donahue and Bob Mitchell at Autumn Records. 146 00:06:57,590 --> 00:06:58,900 Tom Donahue gave me a break. 147 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,640 Tom gave me a chance to produce Bobby Freeman. 148 00:07:01,650 --> 00:07:03,240 Okay, baby, let's hear that one time. 149 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,940 - Swim one, take three. - One, two, three, four. 150 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,660 ♪ Kinda like the monkey, it's kinda like the twist ♪ 151 00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:14,570 ♪ Pretend you're in the water and you go like this ♪ 152 00:07:14,580 --> 00:07:17,250 ♪ Now, baby, swim, a-baby, do the swim ♪ 153 00:07:17,450 --> 00:07:19,920 Sly was a natural producer, 154 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,380 and that was Sly's first gold record, and he was only 19. 155 00:07:23,580 --> 00:07:27,420 And then I produced The Beau Brummels, a song called Laugh, Laugh. 156 00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:33,510 ♪ I thought I'd die, it seemed so funny to me ♪ 157 00:07:33,710 --> 00:07:35,940 ♪ Laugh, laugh, you met a guy ♪ 158 00:07:36,140 --> 00:07:39,070 The Beau Brummels was our version of the British Invasion. 159 00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:41,690 Sly was able to get in the driver's seat with that sound. 160 00:07:41,890 --> 00:07:44,110 Come on in and get around the microphone. 161 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:48,270 Sly was the first producer I ever met. 162 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:49,480 Let's do it again. 163 00:07:49,490 --> 00:07:52,160 The Great Society was my first band. 164 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,830 We were not great musicians. 165 00:07:55,030 --> 00:07:59,950 We had practiced as best we could with the ability we had. 166 00:08:00,150 --> 00:08:01,630 Which was very little. 167 00:08:01,830 --> 00:08:04,670 Sly says, "Okay, you know, play your stuff." 168 00:08:04,870 --> 00:08:06,000 Let's hear that up to now. 169 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,040 ♪ 170 00:08:08,050 --> 00:08:11,420 He could have been really mean, but he went to each person 171 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:14,180 and he said, "Maybe a little bit like this. 172 00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:15,600 How about trying that?" 173 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,140 Don't worry about it. Let's do it again. One, two! 174 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:22,150 ♪ Don't you want somebody to love ♪ 175 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:25,200 And he plays every instrument beautifully. 176 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,990 I just stood there with my jaw on the ground. 177 00:08:28,190 --> 00:08:30,580 He helped us realize how to make a record. 178 00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:33,030 Bud's just mad 'cause he won't be around when it's a hit. 179 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:38,880 He ended up with the original version of Someone to Love, 180 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,840 and this guy that worked for Tom Donahue at Autumn Records 181 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,710 blew everybody away with what a brilliant, incandescent, 182 00:08:45,910 --> 00:08:47,300 and ebullient young man he was. 183 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:49,720 Sly Stone had a gift. 184 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,260 He had huge ears, and he was taking in input at all times. 185 00:08:54,460 --> 00:08:58,550 He was able to flow between R&B music, 186 00:08:58,750 --> 00:09:00,110 British Invasion music, 187 00:09:00,310 --> 00:09:02,320 and the beginnings of American psychedelia, 188 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,990 and that was totally unprecedented at the time. 189 00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:07,505 Wasn't it pretty unusual for someone, an artist, 190 00:09:07,705 --> 00:09:09,820 who was a DJ and who was also a producer? 191 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:11,440 Weren't you one of the first to do that? 192 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,190 Probably, but I didn't know it. 193 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,700 I didn't know that I was one of the first. 194 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:18,540 - Mm. - I had no idea. 195 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:20,420 When Sly's starting out, 196 00:09:20,620 --> 00:09:24,050 he's pretty much the hardest-working man in San Francisco. 197 00:09:24,250 --> 00:09:27,870 Why do you think he had to do two, three, four times as much 198 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,840 just to make a name for himself? 199 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,800 It doesn't matter whether you're doing music, 200 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,220 sports, or anything that you do. 201 00:09:34,420 --> 00:09:38,510 We as Black folk, we gotta always be three, four, 202 00:09:38,710 --> 00:09:41,850 five steps ahead of everybody else 203 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:44,720 in order just to break even. 204 00:09:44,730 --> 00:09:47,065 It's just always been that way. 205 00:09:47,265 --> 00:09:49,600 - Why? - Why ask why? 206 00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:52,770 There is no why, Yoda. You know that. 207 00:09:52,780 --> 00:09:54,830 ♪ 208 00:09:55,030 --> 00:09:56,830 I was in awe of him. 209 00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:59,285 He liked bands that I never thought he would. 210 00:09:59,485 --> 00:10:02,287 I was a white guy trying to be Black, 211 00:10:02,487 --> 00:10:05,090 and he was a Black man being everything. 212 00:10:05,290 --> 00:10:08,755 Were you conscious of people searching for a different type of music? 213 00:10:08,955 --> 00:10:12,420 I was conscious that I was searching for a different type of music. 214 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:15,045 I just dug Dylan, and Charles, and Aretha Franklin 215 00:10:15,245 --> 00:10:17,670 and the Staple Singers, and the Beatles. 216 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:22,400 It's all music, and it should all be together somewhere. 217 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,680 And I decided if I'm going to do music, it'll be my music. 218 00:10:28,060 --> 00:10:30,560 Stop the tape, man. Let's do it again. 219 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Sly Stone, it's so good to have you here. 220 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:37,790 I've always wondered where it all started, 221 00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:40,410 and where you came from, where your roots are, you know. 222 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:42,820 Yeah, from Denton, Texas. 223 00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:45,580 I was three months when I came to California. 224 00:10:47,710 --> 00:10:49,870 So, Vallejo, California, is where you ended up? 225 00:10:50,070 --> 00:10:51,590 Yeah. 226 00:10:51,790 --> 00:10:54,840 Sly's family was part of the Great Migration, 227 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,560 a pivotal moment in American history 228 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,090 and the changing demographics, racial demographics of the country. 229 00:11:01,290 --> 00:11:03,560 Black folks migrated from the Deep South 230 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,150 and moved up north and to the West Coast 231 00:11:06,350 --> 00:11:08,400 to be able to get jobs, and buy homes, 232 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,310 and have the kind of lives that they couldn't have in the Deep South. 233 00:11:12,510 --> 00:11:16,160 But if this moment for Sly's parents was an opportunity, 234 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,820 I think for Sly's generation, it's a different kind of opportunity 235 00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:22,330 to really push the culture and the society forward 236 00:11:22,530 --> 00:11:26,910 in ways that their parents would have never thought of in that period. 237 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:55,770 - ♪ He's calling me ♪ - ♪ He's calling me ♪ 238 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:56,700 ♪ Don't you know he's calling? ♪ 239 00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:58,450 You were coming up in the church there? 240 00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:00,905 Yeah, I played guitar, and bass, and drums 241 00:12:01,105 --> 00:12:03,160 in church six, seven times a week. 242 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,790 Monday night, we had union meeting. 243 00:12:04,990 --> 00:12:06,460 Tuesday night, we had choir rehearsal. 244 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:08,340 Wednesday night, we had usher board meeting. 245 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:10,550 Thursday night, there was prayer and Bible band. 246 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:12,510 Friday night, there was regular worship service. 247 00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:14,545 Saturday night, there was an inspirational service 248 00:12:14,745 --> 00:12:16,580 with different choirs from around the cities. 249 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:20,220 And Sunday, three times a day and sometimes five times on Sunday. 250 00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:23,630 The first time that I saw him in a youth choir, 251 00:12:23,830 --> 00:12:25,100 when Sly would sing, 252 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:29,600 it was just on another level that caused joy in your heart. 253 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,820 I never forgot him. 254 00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:33,900 He's in the Black sanctified church. 255 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:38,020 It was a learning lab for him to learn how to run a band, 256 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:40,860 how to run a choir, how to integrate harmony 257 00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:42,440 with melody and rhythm. 258 00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:45,820 ♪ Oh, once, I was a civilian ♪ 259 00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:46,960 ♪ Ooh ♪ 260 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,240 You formed a, a gospel group around that time. 261 00:12:55,710 --> 00:13:01,250 ♪ You know that I'm on the battlefield for my Lord ♪ 262 00:13:01,260 --> 00:13:03,890 Do you remember the first time that you as a kid 263 00:13:04,090 --> 00:13:06,970 - recognized the power of music? - Yeah. 264 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:22,370 And you've been running ever since? 265 00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:27,540 - ♪ Heavenly angels ♪ - ♪ Angels ♪ 266 00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:29,320 So, you w ent through grade school 267 00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:32,040 and then you started a group in high school called The Viscaynes? 268 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,105 Yeah, well, I was in a group. I didn't start it. 269 00:13:35,305 --> 00:13:37,970 - ♪ Angel ♪ - ♪ All the time ♪ 270 00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:41,540 I dug watching the Viscaynes on Dick Stewart's Dance Party. 271 00:13:41,550 --> 00:13:45,470 He was interacting with white people like I've never seen a Black person do. 272 00:13:58,150 --> 00:14:01,940 Moving ahead with confidence in the future of California 273 00:14:02,140 --> 00:14:04,280 is a goal of junior college. 274 00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:36,890 After you got out of school, you had been a producer and a DJ. 275 00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:39,740 You formed Sly and the Family Stone in the late '60s. 276 00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:41,985 Jerry Martini is the guy that really started it. 277 00:14:42,185 --> 00:14:44,030 I see the songs he's writing. 278 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:47,040 I say, "If we do a band, we'll all be famous." 279 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,280 I don't know what to say, I'm a noodge. My mother was a noodge. 280 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,280 My grandmother was a Russian Jew. They were all noodges. 281 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,330 ♪ 282 00:14:58,370 --> 00:15:00,370 This is an original tune. 283 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:04,880 ♪ Nobody ♪ 284 00:15:09,550 --> 00:15:11,720 ♪ I ain't got nobody ♪ 285 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,150 ♪ If you need somebody ♪ 286 00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:20,890 How did you decide who to have in your group? 287 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,820 Well, my brother Freddie plays guitar, 288 00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:25,610 and my sister plays electric piano, her name is Rose. 289 00:15:25,810 --> 00:15:26,780 So, nepotism. 290 00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:29,190 I had a group, Freddie and the Stone Souls. 291 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,820 Sly came to me one day, he says, "Look, get the very best musicians 292 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:34,320 "that you have out of your group, 293 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:36,440 and I'll get the very best musicians I know." 294 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,750 I said, "Look, I got the drummer." 295 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,620 I was 17 and a half. I'm still in high school. 296 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:45,180 Cynthia, the trumpet player, I knew in school. 297 00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:47,930 She naturally was the first person I thought of. 298 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:49,970 Sly said, "I'm getting a group together," 299 00:15:50,170 --> 00:15:52,840 and I'm thinking something in my life is gonna be different. 300 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Larry Graham played bass. 301 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,010 I had not worked with a drummer in years. 302 00:15:58,020 --> 00:16:00,390 When I was 15, I played with my mother 303 00:16:00,590 --> 00:16:02,570 as a duo, no drums. 304 00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:06,560 That's when I developed the style of thumping the strings 305 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:08,450 to make up for not having drums. 306 00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:11,650 So, I thought, this is either gonna be a train wreck... 307 00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:16,200 or something is gonna happen, I don't know. 308 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,630 We hit it off, there was chemistry, 309 00:16:19,830 --> 00:16:22,710 and when we started playing, I go, oh yeah, this is different. 310 00:16:22,910 --> 00:16:24,930 ♪ 311 00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:26,930 Sly already had it in his mind 312 00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:29,500 that we were gonna have a mixed band. 313 00:16:29,510 --> 00:16:33,350 There were guys, and girls, and Black, and white. 314 00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:37,260 So, you get all that input, so you get all that sound. 315 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:39,730 This is December of 1966. 316 00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:45,100 A lot of things going on in the country that didn't necessarily support the idea 317 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:46,915 that male, and female, and Black, and white 318 00:16:47,115 --> 00:16:48,530 should get together to start a music group. 319 00:16:48,730 --> 00:16:51,480 You've got to keep the white and the Black separate. 320 00:16:51,490 --> 00:16:54,070 We are not white, we are Black. 321 00:16:54,270 --> 00:16:55,750 We rehearsed every night, 322 00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:59,330 and we started playing six nights a week at Winchester Cathedral. 323 00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:07,040 ♪ Hey, hey, hey ♪ 324 00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:15,770 Even though we played cover songs, 325 00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:17,870 Sly would put his original stamp on it. 326 00:17:18,070 --> 00:17:19,970 ♪ You got-got-got to... ♪ 327 00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:29,730 ♪ Yeah, whoo, you got to try a little tenderness ♪ 328 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:31,740 329 00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:34,320 ♪ Yeah ♪ 330 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:38,960 I went to the Winchester Cathedral 331 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,520 and had my mind blown away by this extraordinary talent. 332 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,080 This tour de force. The integration of Afro-Americans 333 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,430 and Caucasians, the girls, the boys. 334 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:54,430 I just knew in my bones. 335 00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:56,880 This was happening music, and I loved it. 336 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:03,900 David Kapralik dug us, 337 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,360 and he signed us up, and we signed him up. 338 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,110 David Kapralik brought the group to me, 339 00:18:09,310 --> 00:18:13,440 and I was excited by the music from the very beginning. 340 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,780 In those days, music was very, very segmented. 341 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:18,660 You had pop. 342 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:20,460 ♪ Falling in love with love ♪ 343 00:18:20,660 --> 00:18:22,700 ♪ Is falling for make-believe ♪ 344 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:23,790 You had R&B. 345 00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:27,120 ♪ The love that I have belongs to the woman with soul ♪ 346 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,300 You had rock. 347 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,420 ♪ Girl, I want to be with you ♪ 348 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:33,300 But with Sly, 349 00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:37,550 we get this totally unique blurring of genres. 350 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:42,310 ♪ Ahh, ahh ♪ 351 00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:47,375 ♪ I know, I know you need attention ♪ 352 00:18:47,575 --> 00:18:52,240 ♪ I got, I got attention for you ♪ 353 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,260 ♪ I know, I know you need affection ♪ 354 00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:02,080 ♪ I got, I got affection for you ♪ 355 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,500 ♪ If somebody told me, if I knew you liked to ♪ 356 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:08,920 You've played in front of a lot of different kinds of audiences. 357 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,735 Is it different playing for an all-Negro as opposed to an all-white audience? 358 00:19:12,935 --> 00:19:15,977 Yeah. Sometimes if, uh, we didn't do a tune that was R&B enough, 359 00:19:16,177 --> 00:19:19,220 some Black people had to wait for the next two or three songs 360 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:20,880 before they decided that they'd stay. 361 00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,690 And then, there were some white audiences 362 00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:26,100 that if we didn't get into a jam quick enough, then they would split. 363 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:27,690 So, you just got to go and play, 364 00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:31,230 and just hope that, uh, most of the people want to stay. 365 00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:35,530 ♪ I'm on a trip to your heart ♪ 366 00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:38,410 I thought, here, you have a creative genius 367 00:19:38,610 --> 00:19:42,780 who was going to make a permanent mark on history. 368 00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:44,540 So, I signed him. 369 00:19:44,740 --> 00:19:47,450 And we did our first album in Los Angeles 370 00:19:47,650 --> 00:19:49,050 at CBS on Sunset and Gower. 371 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:51,130 This is it. Quiet, everybody. 372 00:19:51,330 --> 00:19:52,380 Yeah. Are we taking this? 373 00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:53,680 Sly's work ethic... 374 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,340 - Two, one. - ...was intense. 375 00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:58,970 He wanted to work 24/7, seven days a week. 376 00:19:59,170 --> 00:20:02,350 When the rhythm section was laying a part, the horns would be sleeping. 377 00:20:02,550 --> 00:20:06,140 The horns get ready to play their part, then the other people would be sleeping. 378 00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:07,760 We were fanatics. 379 00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:09,360 And that's the way it ought to be, too, by the way. 380 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,640 Our first album was totally out of the box, 381 00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:14,360 and we were like an anomaly. 382 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,715 ♪ Hey, dig, I know how it feels to expect to get a fair shake ♪ 383 00:20:17,915 --> 00:20:21,287 ♪ But they won't let you forget that you're the underdog ♪ 384 00:20:21,487 --> 00:20:24,860 ♪ And you got to be twice as good, yeah, yeah ♪ 385 00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:27,330 ♪ Even if you're never right, they get uptight ♪ 386 00:20:27,530 --> 00:20:28,590 ♪ When you get too bright ♪ 387 00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:31,410 ♪ Or you might start thinking too much, yeah ♪ 388 00:20:31,610 --> 00:20:32,880 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 389 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,590 In a broad sense, the band is an underdog, 390 00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:39,750 coming out of the West Coast with this multi-racial, multi-gendered band, 391 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,205 something that we've never seen before. 392 00:20:43,405 --> 00:20:46,650 ♪ Say I'm the underdog ♪ 393 00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:49,150 It's hard not to also think about that song 394 00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:52,270 in the context of the race politics of the moment. 395 00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:53,690 As a Black man in America, 396 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:56,610 he's taking that persona on of the underdog. 397 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:59,570 "I got nothing to lose and everything's against me, so let's go." 398 00:20:59,770 --> 00:21:01,990 ♪ I know how it feels to get demoted ♪ 399 00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:04,150 ♪ When it comes time to get promoted ♪ 400 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,160 ♪ 'Cause you might be moving up too fast ♪ 401 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:08,460 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ 402 00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:12,120 Sly was still trying to figure out his sound. 403 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,800 Are they gonna be read as a rock group, 404 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,430 or are they gonna always be seen as a Black group? 405 00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:21,840 The first album, I thought it was gonna be a smash hit. 406 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,340 But it was a complete flop. It broke Sly's heart. 407 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,690 The album A Whole New Thing, it was a dud. 408 00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:35,610 Sly came into my office completely dejected. 409 00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:39,560 I heard myself saying to him, do you need a hit single? 410 00:21:39,570 --> 00:21:42,320 Dave Kapralik said he wanted us to sound like the bands 411 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,580 that were out there already. 412 00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:47,370 He said, "I want you guys to play in a nice club and dress nice." 413 00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:51,160 And, and Sly said two words to him, which I'm not gonna repeat. 414 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,520 Hey, get up and dance to the music! 415 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:20,770 Get on up and dance to the music. 416 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:33,950 ♪ Dance to the music ♪ 417 00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:38,080 ♪ Dance to the music ♪ 418 00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:41,590 ♪ Dance to the music ♪ 419 00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:44,155 Dance to the Music was a hit record. 420 00:22:44,355 --> 00:22:46,520 So, I thought we're gonna be it. 421 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,020 ♪ All we need is a drummer ♪ 422 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:53,640 ♪ For people who only need a beat, yeah ♪ 423 00:23:01,730 --> 00:23:04,520 ♪ I'm gonna add a little guitar ♪ 424 00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:07,700 ♪ And make it easy to move your feet ♪ 425 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:09,910 The first time I hear d Dance to the Music, 426 00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:12,960 it was like, oh, my God, it's the greatest thing ever. 427 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,240 It sounded like nothing else on the radio at the time. 428 00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:19,340 ♪ I'm gonna add some bottom ♪ 429 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:22,540 ♪ So that the dancers just won't hide ♪ 430 00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:26,760 ♪ You might like to hear my organ ♪ 431 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,770 ♪ I said ride, Sally, ride now ♪ 432 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:33,600 Writing a hit song is almost impossible, 433 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,980 but Sly had an uncanny ability to make every part of the song hooky. 434 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:42,440 The rhythm, it's implied four on the floor. 435 00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,485 It's close to the Motown beat. 436 00:23:45,685 --> 00:23:47,190 ♪ Can't help myself ♪ 437 00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:48,080 But it ain't. 438 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,280 There's a bass playing one note. 439 00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:56,200 You add that to the little licks that come along with it. 440 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,870 Those nice little horn parts. 441 00:24:01,210 --> 00:24:03,180 Each person gets their moment. 442 00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:05,960 ♪ I'm gonna add a little guitar ♪ 443 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,590 ♪ I'm gonna add some bottom ♪ 444 00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:10,470 They have unison vocals. 445 00:24:10,670 --> 00:24:12,530 ♪ Dance to the music ♪ 446 00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:14,590 They had harmony vocals. 447 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,810 He's got some magical way of weaving things together. 448 00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:21,890 ♪ 449 00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:27,780 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ 450 00:24:27,980 --> 00:24:31,110 ♪ Cynthia and Jerry got a message they're saying ♪ 451 00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:34,490 ♪ Sing, all the squares go home ♪ 452 00:24:35,910 --> 00:24:39,080 Sly's inviting you to something extraordinary. 453 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,950 He's learning to be inclusive. 454 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,210 ♪ Listen to the voices ♪ 455 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,420 And it felt like the carnival has come to town. 456 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:51,510 457 00:24:57,220 --> 00:25:01,560 That song changed everything. It was a paradigm shift. 458 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,780 The gigs got better. 459 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:06,270 The first time we played the Fillmore East in New York, 460 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:08,160 it was Jimi Hendrix Experience, 461 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,860 Sly and the Family Stone, one show, $7.50. 462 00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:13,200 Hello? 463 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,200 - ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey ♪ 464 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,750 ♪ M'lady ♪ 465 00:25:25,670 --> 00:25:27,170 ♪ M'lady ♪ 466 00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:32,890 ♪ A smile of pleasure, beautiful and kind ♪ 467 00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:36,680 They were a smash, they were the hot sensation of New York. 468 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,550 ♪ Give her some time, yeah ♪ 469 00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:40,190 ♪ Time, time ♪ 470 00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:43,440 - ♪ Give her some time ♪ - ♪ Time, time ♪ 471 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,570 And word spread, and then everything broke open. 472 00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:50,480 Now, here for the youngsters is Sly and the Family Stone. 473 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,990 Don't hate the Black. Don't hate the white. 474 00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:56,290 If you get bitten, just hate the bite. 475 00:25:56,490 --> 00:25:59,370 - ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ The music's getting longer ♪ 476 00:26:01,910 --> 00:26:03,960 ♪ All I want to do, yeah ♪ 477 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,760 - ♪ I want to take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 478 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,130 I'm 18 years old. I'm thinking, this is where I seen the Beatles. 479 00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:13,010 This is where I seen Elvis Presley. 480 00:26:14,010 --> 00:26:16,760 And I said, here we are. This could be significant. 481 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,640 Tomorrow could be different than today. 482 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,470 - ♪ Wanna take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 483 00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:26,980 - ♪ Higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 484 00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:30,360 ♪ Up and away, now ♪ 485 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,980 ♪ Up, up and away ♪ 486 00:26:34,180 --> 00:26:36,070 487 00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:42,880 For him and Rose to go out into the audience, 488 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,620 who would do that on the Ed Sullivan Show, 489 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:46,350 go out in the audience, right? 490 00:26:46,550 --> 00:26:48,080 And doing the hambone. 491 00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:52,010 Go on, Sly. Yeah! 492 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:53,840 Work, Sly. Work, Sly. 493 00:26:56,420 --> 00:26:59,260 And all those people in suits out in the audience 494 00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:00,480 clapping on one and three? 495 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,390 They loved it. 496 00:27:05,890 --> 00:27:08,770 And that meant that America loved it. 497 00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:10,860 ♪ 498 00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:19,150 ♪ Hey music lover ♪ 499 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,830 To me, one of the greatest things about Sly 500 00:27:21,030 --> 00:27:24,310 is he's letting us peer into something very free. 501 00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:27,790 The appearance, the clothing, even the wigs, 502 00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:29,340 it was from another world. 503 00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:33,130 When they came together as the sound, it was so future. 504 00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:40,220 ♪ Higher ♪ 505 00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:42,300 ♪ 506 00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:49,930 Thank you for letting us be ourselves. Thank you. 507 00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:53,020 ♪ 508 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:08,000 I still have dreams about when it was the fun days. 509 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:14,260 We used to hang together. 510 00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:17,750 We would rent bicycles and ride around bicycles in New York City. 511 00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:22,090 Being in the group was a musical experience, 512 00:28:22,290 --> 00:28:24,140 but it was also personal friendships. 513 00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:28,600 I think we spent more time together than we spent with our family members, 514 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,320 or their girlfriends, or wives. 515 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,600 We were making a little money, we were able to buy toys. 516 00:28:34,690 --> 00:28:37,730 Bought motorcycles and went riding together. 517 00:28:37,930 --> 00:28:40,540 We all got dogs together. 518 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:43,080 - I had Egyptian Salukis. 519 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,030 Freddie had an Irish wolfhound. Sly bought a pit bull. 520 00:28:47,230 --> 00:28:49,240 Rose had an Afghan. 521 00:28:49,250 --> 00:28:52,160 Greg and Jerry had Saint Bernard and Great Pyrenees. 522 00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:55,130 We'd go to the movies together. 523 00:28:55,330 --> 00:28:58,630 We went to see this movie called A Space Odyssey 524 00:28:58,830 --> 00:28:59,850 that just came out. 525 00:29:00,050 --> 00:29:02,470 I think we took some mescaline or something like that, 526 00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:04,850 some mushrooms or some psychedelics, 527 00:29:05,050 --> 00:29:07,850 so it was quite... it was quite the experience. 528 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,430 We were family. Period. Simply. 529 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,860 I felt like part of the family. 530 00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:17,650 Sly was like a big brother I never had. 531 00:29:17,850 --> 00:29:19,770 He was a leader. 532 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:23,070 We all loved Sly, especially Cynthia. 533 00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:24,410 She was in love with Sly. 534 00:29:24,610 --> 00:29:28,080 He was the first guy that ever treated me with real respect. 535 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,750 He made you want to be there together and to do this together. 536 00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:35,010 We were all inspired by Sly. 537 00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:39,040 We were also inspired by what was going on in the country then. 538 00:29:42,550 --> 00:29:44,170 Demonstrators in San Francisco 539 00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:45,850 protest the Vietnam War. 540 00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:47,520 U.S., get out! 541 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,850 America is shocked by the brutal slaying of Doctor Martin Luther King. 542 00:29:53,050 --> 00:29:56,570 It was an intense time in '68. 543 00:29:56,770 --> 00:29:58,700 We were on the tour bus one time. 544 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:01,650 It was the middle of the night and we had to get gas. 545 00:30:01,850 --> 00:30:03,200 We're downtown Detroit. 546 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,280 Everything was out. The store lights were out. 547 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,820 We were like, what's going on? 548 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:12,740 Then all of a sudden, we're surrounded by jeeps and tanks. 549 00:30:12,750 --> 00:30:15,210 The body of Doctor Martin Luther King Jr., 550 00:30:15,410 --> 00:30:18,540 viewed by mourners and followers this morning. 551 00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:19,970 Detroit tonight is under a curfew 552 00:30:20,170 --> 00:30:22,845 and National Guard troops are on duty there. 553 00:30:23,045 --> 00:30:25,387 The next thing, we're up against a building. 554 00:30:25,587 --> 00:30:27,730 I thought we were gonna die. 555 00:30:27,930 --> 00:30:30,020 Sly was not afraid at all. I was afraid. 556 00:30:30,220 --> 00:30:33,930 But Sly just had the guitar out going like this, you know. 557 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:36,740 They goes, "Tell that... down there, 558 00:30:36,940 --> 00:30:38,650 tell him to shut up or we'll shoot his ass." 559 00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:41,610 And then, they took me and Rose, and Sly's girlfriend, 560 00:30:41,810 --> 00:30:44,370 who was Caucasian, and put us in the truck. 561 00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:49,120 And a service guy walked past Anita and said, "nigger lover." 562 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:54,370 This is a moment in history where you have these assassinations 563 00:30:54,570 --> 00:30:57,660 A stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land. 564 00:30:57,670 --> 00:30:59,370 A doctor! We need a doctor right here. 565 00:30:59,380 --> 00:31:01,670 Senator Kennedy is shot in the head. 566 00:31:01,870 --> 00:31:03,840 You have an unpopular war. 567 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:06,560 Troopers took a lot of casualties. 568 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,430 You have campuses where students are protesting these wars. 569 00:31:12,010 --> 00:31:14,930 You have police brutality against people of color. 570 00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:18,780 And there's always this threat of violence 571 00:31:18,980 --> 00:31:22,860 that's associated with anybody who speaks out in this moment. 572 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:28,610 Just about everything in this country, late '60s, was in disarray. 573 00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:31,780 Did that make your job as a musician, as a writer, 574 00:31:31,980 --> 00:31:35,750 - more difficult or easier? - Easy. 575 00:31:35,950 --> 00:31:39,160 That... those are the kind of things that make you feel like, uh, working, 576 00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:41,445 or writing, or playing, or doing what you do. 577 00:31:41,645 --> 00:31:43,720 We're really trying to say something 578 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,425 after playing some other tunes that didn't mean anything. 579 00:31:46,625 --> 00:31:49,257 And with the members of the group, all you got to do 580 00:31:49,457 --> 00:31:52,090 is inspire them in the right way and let 'em go. 581 00:31:56,390 --> 00:31:59,850 In the studio, the spark for the songs would come from Sly. 582 00:32:00,050 --> 00:32:01,690 Oh, wait a minute! 583 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:04,740 Sly is up here at the helm, 584 00:32:04,940 --> 00:32:07,370 and he would give us the skeleton of a song, 585 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:09,450 and then he would say, "Okay, what do you do with that?" 586 00:32:09,650 --> 00:32:11,530 Okay, okay, we'll do the whole thing again. 587 00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:13,620 588 00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:18,620 Songs would develop. The arrangements would develop. 589 00:32:21,620 --> 00:32:23,710 Come on, I think we got a chance to get something done here. 590 00:32:23,910 --> 00:32:26,380 They would morph, sometimes significantly different 591 00:32:26,580 --> 00:32:27,600 than where it started. 592 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,260 Okay, Greg. Okay, this is Some People, 102290, take one. 593 00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:33,930 Sly wasn't cracking the whip. 594 00:32:34,130 --> 00:32:36,220 ♪ 595 00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:39,220 Let's try it again. 596 00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:40,690 But we did spend long hours, 597 00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:43,600 because if we didn't get it, we'd keep going over it again. 598 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:46,490 One... one more time. 599 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:48,650 - No. Take five. 600 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,040 Take six. 601 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,920 - What happened? 602 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,910 You guys aren't together, Cynthia and Jerry. 603 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,750 Rose, play the same thing you're playing now, an octave higher. 604 00:33:06,790 --> 00:33:09,985 We talk about catching fire in a bottle. 605 00:33:10,185 --> 00:33:13,180 Sly and the Family Stone were in sync 606 00:33:13,380 --> 00:33:16,930 with what was happening culturally, socially, and politically. 607 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:18,350 Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. 608 00:33:18,550 --> 00:33:19,400 They're playing the wrong notes. 609 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,390 Let's try again. Take 100. 610 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:33,740 ♪ Sometimes I'm right, and I can be wrong ♪ 611 00:33:33,940 --> 00:33:37,580 ♪ My own beliefs are in my song ♪ 612 00:33:37,780 --> 00:33:42,060 ♪ The butcher, the banker, the drummer, and then ♪ 613 00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:46,540 ♪ Makes no difference what group I'm in ♪ 614 00:33:46,740 --> 00:33:51,680 ♪ I am everyday people ♪ 615 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,800 There's a certain power hearing unison vocals. 616 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,520 ♪ There is a blue one ♪ 617 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,550 ♪ Who can't accept the green one for living ♪ 618 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,150 Everybody singing the same note, 619 00:34:01,350 --> 00:34:04,315 doing the sing-songy, nursery rhyme-ish melodies 620 00:34:04,515 --> 00:34:07,280 made it easy for the listener to sing along with. 621 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,200 ♪ And so on and so on and scooby-dooby-doo ♪ 622 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,360 That unison creates the vibe that pulls everybody in 623 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,580 to that one-minded concept. 624 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:19,080 ♪ We got to live together ♪ 625 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,250 ♪ I am no better and neither are you ♪ 626 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,340 ♪ We are the same whatever we do ♪ 627 00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:32,600 ♪ You love me, you hate me, you know me, and then ♪ 628 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,670 But when they sing in harmony, oh, boy, it felt like church. 629 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,645 ♪ I am everyday people ♪ 630 00:34:40,845 --> 00:34:44,610 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 631 00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:46,690 ♪ There is a long hair ♪ 632 00:34:46,890 --> 00:34:48,780 ♪ That doesn't like the short hair ♪ 633 00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:53,280 ♪ For being such a rich one that will not help the poor one ♪ 634 00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:55,540 ♪ Different strokes ♪ 635 00:34:55,740 --> 00:34:57,080 ♪ For different folks ♪ 636 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,250 ♪ And so on and so on... ♪ 637 00:34:58,450 --> 00:35:00,710 With Everyday People, Sly came along 638 00:35:00,910 --> 00:35:03,790 as the Black hippie Pied Piper singing, 639 00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:06,395 "We are the same, whatever we do." 640 00:35:06,595 --> 00:35:08,800 ♪ We got to live together ♪ 641 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,540 That's the first time you hear that sentiment from a Black artist. 642 00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:16,220 ♪ Won't accept the Black one that won't accept the red one ♪ 643 00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:20,840 There was a utopianism that people were ready to buy into, 644 00:35:20,850 --> 00:35:25,230 that female, and male, and Black, and white can create another world. 645 00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:28,940 Being so tuneful and just being great music, that was the validation. 646 00:35:29,140 --> 00:35:31,060 That was the proof of concept that it was possible. 647 00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:34,835 ♪ I am everyday people ♪ 648 00:35:35,035 --> 00:35:38,610 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 649 00:35:38,810 --> 00:35:41,080 ♪ 650 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,460 But at the same time, 651 00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:44,960 that message could be perceived as problematic, 652 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,910 because, you know, these people, they got their knee on my neck. 653 00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:49,080 They're shooting brothers up. 654 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,930 The hippies was trying to do love and peace. 655 00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:56,420 You know, we're from the ghetto, we don't believe that. 656 00:35:56,620 --> 00:35:57,710 You got to watch out for your back. 657 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:01,050 A policeman in a Black community is a licensed killer. 658 00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:03,350 In the late 1960s, 659 00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:06,540 the civil rights movement is at a crossroads. 660 00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:09,320 We no longer have with us Martin Luther King. 661 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,900 We've lost something, and we feel it deeply. 662 00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:14,440 So, the movement is kind of at a standstill, 663 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,730 except for this radical edge. 664 00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:18,525 We have to got to get... 665 00:36:18,725 --> 00:36:20,120 Black Power! 666 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,330 Let Black people defend themselves from racist pig cops, 667 00:36:23,530 --> 00:36:26,490 who shoot up windows and murder Black people in the Black community. 668 00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:28,210 Sly is kind of walking the line 669 00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:30,795 between the civil rights world of his parents 670 00:36:30,995 --> 00:36:33,180 and the Black Power world that's emerging. 671 00:36:33,380 --> 00:36:37,155 So, Sly gives a love letter to both sides of this moment... 672 00:36:37,355 --> 00:36:41,130 what happened before, and what's possible in the aftermath. 673 00:36:41,330 --> 00:36:46,900 ♪ Stand, in the end, you'll still be you ♪ 674 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:52,065 ♪ One that's done all the things you set out to do ♪ 675 00:36:52,265 --> 00:36:57,030 ♪ Stand, there's a cross for you to bear ♪ 676 00:36:57,230 --> 00:37:02,700 ♪ Things to go through if you're going anywhere ♪ 677 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,370 ♪ Ooh ♪ 678 00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:10,090 ♪ Stand for the things you know are right ♪ 679 00:37:10,290 --> 00:37:14,370 ♪ It's the truth that the truth makes them so uptight ♪ 680 00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:17,655 At 16 years old, I was a sub-section leader 681 00:37:17,855 --> 00:37:20,930 in the Black Panther Party in Lower Manhattan. 682 00:37:21,130 --> 00:37:25,180 When we first heard Stand!, it was so powerful for us, 683 00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:28,050 as activists, as revolutionaries, 684 00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:31,810 listening to Sly talk about the way the world should be. 685 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:34,070 ♪ Stand! ♪ 686 00:37:34,270 --> 00:37:36,200 You were one way before you heard the record. 687 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,690 Then after you sat there for a few hours listening over and over and over again, 688 00:37:40,890 --> 00:37:45,080 that feeling of transformation, it was magical. 689 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,960 ♪ Stand, you've been sitting much too long ♪ 690 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,250 ♪ There's a permanent crease in your right and wrong ♪ 691 00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:56,470 ♪ Stand ♪ 692 00:37:56,670 --> 00:38:01,180 It was one of the only empowering songs that there were, 693 00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:04,340 you know, out there for young people, and we weren't getting a lot of that. 694 00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:05,930 We were getting a lot of "I love you, baby." 695 00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:08,230 ♪ 696 00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:09,860 - ♪ Stand! ♪ - In Detroit, 697 00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:13,520 that album was like The Chronic, you know, for my parents. 698 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,240 It was like every car on Belle Isle 699 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,270 was riding around playing Stand! as an anthem. 700 00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:23,200 ♪ Stand, stand ♪ 701 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,870 Stand! is such an amazing arrangement. 702 00:38:26,070 --> 00:38:28,200 It's the same melody in different registers, 703 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,530 and then it's back to the beginning again. 704 00:38:41,250 --> 00:38:43,250 It sounds like something's gonna happen, but it doesn't. 705 00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:45,060 It goes right back to... ♪ Stand ♪ 706 00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:48,180 So, it teases you like there's gonna be a release. 707 00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:50,100 There's like a tension that happens. 708 00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:52,900 But then, it just... it doesn't let it go. 709 00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:56,650 ♪ Well, at least in your mind if you want to be ♪ 710 00:38:56,850 --> 00:38:59,700 And then, finally, at the end of the song, 711 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:02,370 you've been waiting, waiting, waiting, anticipating something. 712 00:39:02,570 --> 00:39:05,610 All of a sudden, it goes into a whole different change where it's... 713 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,620 And it's like a whole 'nother song. 714 00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:12,170 ♪ Stand! ♪ 715 00:39:12,370 --> 00:39:15,910 ♪ Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na, na-na ♪ 716 00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:20,960 And it's like, oh, shit! What the... oh, my God. 717 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,010 It's like a... it's like a musical orgasm. 718 00:39:24,210 --> 00:39:26,680 Can I say that on camera? Yeah. 719 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,970 It's like a... it's like a musical... I swear to God. 720 00:39:31,170 --> 00:39:33,140 ♪ Na-na-na-na-na, na-na ♪ 721 00:39:36,810 --> 00:39:38,360 By the time he got to Stand!, 722 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,730 he knew perfectly what would work on the radio, 723 00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:44,610 in the hood, and in the pop culture. 724 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,070 We were all very happy about our success, 725 00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:51,330 but now, we had set the bar 726 00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:55,250 really, really high for our live performances. 727 00:39:55,450 --> 00:40:01,540 So, our next show, we gotta... we gotta get that high, you know, or higher. 728 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,460 Nearly half a million kids jammed onto a 600-acre dairy farm 729 00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:09,935 near Woodstock, New York, in August '69, 730 00:40:10,135 --> 00:40:12,600 to dance, sing, smoke, and make love. 731 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,105 Do you recall your experience at Woodstock? 732 00:40:17,305 --> 00:40:20,457 At first, I was scared, to tell you the truth. 733 00:40:20,657 --> 00:40:23,610 Well, I usually am, though, before a concert. 734 00:40:23,810 --> 00:40:28,030 I'm always scared before a con... you know, kind of, um... 735 00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:30,250 I want to hurry and get it on, 736 00:40:30,450 --> 00:40:32,120 'cause I can't wait, you know, that kind of thing. 737 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,570 - Mm-hmm. - And, you know, it kind of wears me out. 738 00:40:34,580 --> 00:40:38,580 But, um, the Woodstock thing, I walked in the audience, I remember that. 739 00:40:39,580 --> 00:40:42,620 There were so many people that I thought, man, 740 00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:44,680 we better not make a mistake. 741 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,920 And then I thought, well, this is no way to walk down that, 742 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,170 - you know, that thing in my stomach. - Mm-hmm. 743 00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:56,810 Right before we went on, Sly, he poured out a pile of blow, 744 00:40:57,010 --> 00:40:59,470 you know, with a pinch of mescaline. 745 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,640 We all got our dollar bills and hit it. 746 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,520 And then it seems like we're on... 747 00:41:06,770 --> 00:41:08,740 and we... 748 00:41:08,940 --> 00:41:11,780 we were on, or almost we'd had never gotten off. 749 00:41:11,980 --> 00:41:13,150 That was it. 750 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,080 - ♪ I wanna take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 751 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:22,120 - ♪ Wanna take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 752 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,380 - ♪ Higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 753 00:41:25,580 --> 00:41:27,460 ♪ 754 00:41:28,590 --> 00:41:30,340 ♪ Higher now ♪ 755 00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:41,890 ♪ Do it higher, oh yeah ♪ 756 00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:53,450 ♪ Wanna take you higher ♪ 757 00:41:56,490 --> 00:41:59,370 ♪ Unh, wanna take you higher ♪ 758 00:41:59,570 --> 00:42:00,710 ♪ Higher ♪ 759 00:42:00,910 --> 00:42:07,130 - ♪ Wanna take you higher ♪ - ♪ Higher ♪ 760 00:42:09,130 --> 00:42:11,680 - ♪ Higher ♪ 761 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,800 ♪ Higher ♪ 762 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,360 What effect did it have on you? 763 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,505 Wow, it was a little too big. 764 00:42:24,705 --> 00:42:27,490 It was almost too big to happen. 765 00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:31,730 You know, I thought we would happen, but at the time, it was, whew. 766 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,200 Almost too much all at once. 767 00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:49,210 Success can equal certain freedoms. 768 00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:52,850 But I don't think anybody is totally free the whole time. 769 00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:56,420 I think there are moments of... and I think that's what we're attracted to. 770 00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:58,810 Like when we see what we call a rock star, 771 00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:01,550 it's almost like they are making a sacrifice for us, 772 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,150 and that's why we hail them. 773 00:43:03,350 --> 00:43:06,690 But sometimes, it starts to work against why and what you're doing. 774 00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:11,070 The same thing that made you great becomes the thing that kills you. 775 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,320 ♪ Everybody is a star ♪ 776 00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:22,870 ♪ Who could rain and chase the dust away ♪ 777 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,630 ♪ Everybody wants to shine ♪ 778 00:43:27,830 --> 00:43:31,050 After Woodstock, Sly and the Family Stone 779 00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:34,500 was just this explosive monumental event 780 00:43:34,510 --> 00:43:36,130 every time they were on stage. 781 00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:41,800 The first time I saw them live was so unbelievable. 782 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,560 No Motown act, no... nobody had ever rocked me 783 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,400 the way that concert did. 784 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,860 I left there thinking he could run for president and win. 785 00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:56,530 John Lennon is an icon. Elvis Presley is an icon. 786 00:43:56,730 --> 00:43:59,870 Sly Stone became an icon. 787 00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:03,870 Sly opened the floodgates for all musicians of color 788 00:44:04,070 --> 00:44:05,500 to just do whatever they felt like, 789 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:08,910 because at one point, you might have felt like you could only do Motown. 790 00:44:09,110 --> 00:44:12,340 Sly gave everyone this whole psychedelic thing. 791 00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:15,010 Shoot, even The Temptations went psychedelic. 792 00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:17,460 You have so many different groups coming about 793 00:44:17,470 --> 00:44:19,980 that are being more free with the music. 794 00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:24,760 That brand-new 21st-century funk, we got it from Sly. 795 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,850 ♪ 796 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,860 Miles Davis just absolutely worshiped Sly. 797 00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:34,270 Miles used to follow him around, he used to come to our gigs. 798 00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:38,160 Miles had a young wife, Betty Mabry. 799 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,570 She took her old-ass husband and was like, "You know what? 800 00:44:40,770 --> 00:44:42,530 Pops, check this out. This is what's up." 801 00:44:43,410 --> 00:44:45,920 And he takes it in, and his mind is blown. 802 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,410 I mean, there's no On the Corner without his exposure to Sly Stone. 803 00:44:50,610 --> 00:44:52,170 Fast forward into the '80s. 804 00:44:54,420 --> 00:44:57,460 Sly's influence on Prince is infinite. 805 00:44:58,590 --> 00:45:00,635 Prince had a female keyboard player, 806 00:45:00,835 --> 00:45:02,880 eventually a female guitarist. 807 00:45:02,890 --> 00:45:03,940 It was multiracial. 808 00:45:04,140 --> 00:45:08,560 ♪ I was dreaming when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray ♪ 809 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,570 The vocals in 1999 gave everyone a part. 810 00:45:11,770 --> 00:45:17,020 ♪ But when I woke up this morning, could have sworn it was Judgment Day ♪ 811 00:45:17,220 --> 00:45:19,410 ♪ 812 00:45:19,610 --> 00:45:24,450 ♪ So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999 ♪ 813 00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:25,330 Whoo! 814 00:45:25,530 --> 00:45:27,710 Prince, being our mentor, used to always say 815 00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:30,915 we should all be trying to make visual records. 816 00:45:31,115 --> 00:45:34,120 Just like how Sly's music took you someplace. 817 00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:37,050 It took you to a place apart from where you were 818 00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:40,130 and dropped you off into a place that you might have dreamed of. 819 00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:49,760 ♪ Them summer days ♪ 820 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:53,690 ♪ Those summer days ♪ 821 00:45:54,810 --> 00:45:57,520 ♪ I cloud nine when I want to ♪ 822 00:46:00,230 --> 00:46:04,120 ♪ Out of school, yeah, yeah ♪ 823 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,165 ♪ A county fair in the country sun ♪ 824 00:46:09,365 --> 00:46:12,767 ♪ And everything is cool ♪ 825 00:46:12,967 --> 00:46:16,370 ♪ Oh, yeah, yeah ♪ 826 00:46:16,380 --> 00:46:20,930 ♪ Hot fun in the summertime, oh, yeah ♪ 827 00:46:21,130 --> 00:46:25,470 Sly post-Woodstock is the darling of the rock world. 828 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,150 ♪ First of the fall and there she goes ♪ 829 00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:33,250 There was an idea that a big rock band 830 00:46:33,450 --> 00:46:36,150 wasn't necessarily a Black thing. 831 00:46:36,350 --> 00:46:38,610 And Sly comes into that space and owns it. 832 00:46:38,810 --> 00:46:41,945 That's not him crossing over into that sound. 833 00:46:42,145 --> 00:46:45,080 He's crossing other audiences over to him. 834 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,160 Little Richard, Chuck Berry, even Ray Charles 835 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,040 never had access to both white mainstream 836 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,105 and the Black audiences the way that Sly does by 1970. 837 00:46:54,305 --> 00:46:57,170 He found himself on the cover of Rolling Stone. 838 00:46:58,710 --> 00:47:01,300 By that time, the focus was on Sly, 839 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,560 because he's the up-front person, he's the spokesman. 840 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,270 So, he had a tremendous pressure and weight on his shoulders. 841 00:47:09,470 --> 00:47:12,470 The money must be sort of pouring in on you people at this point. 842 00:47:12,670 --> 00:47:14,220 What is the main thing you're doing now? 843 00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:16,440 Doing an album, and we're gonna do concerts. 844 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,280 And we're getting a lot of money, and it's nice to have a lot of money. 845 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,320 But I don't want to turn into the kind of person that, because of an extra dollar, 846 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,120 turned into the kind of person because of an extra dollar. 847 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,960 Oftentimes when Black artists are held in the limelight, 848 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,625 they're automatically expected to represent their people. 849 00:47:34,825 --> 00:47:38,290 Yeah, man, some people do want to put you on that pedestal. 850 00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:42,790 Like you are the spokesperson for all Black people. 851 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,380 They're depending on you, and they're counting on you. 852 00:47:46,580 --> 00:47:50,675 It's enough just, um, navigating and coping 853 00:47:50,875 --> 00:47:54,970 through the change in your life that happens 854 00:47:55,170 --> 00:47:57,530 when you become a celebrity, 855 00:47:57,730 --> 00:48:01,400 or somebody that is, you know, quote-unquote, "famous." 856 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,740 Just that within itself is a huge paradigm shift. 857 00:48:06,940 --> 00:48:08,540 At one point, 858 00:48:08,740 --> 00:48:11,780 the Black Panthers approached Sly for his involvement. 859 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,590 They were trying to make us be one of them. 860 00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:21,830 We weren't a political band, but we were singing about racial issues. 861 00:48:22,030 --> 00:48:26,590 So, I can see why people labeled us as a political movement. 862 00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:31,060 ♪ Don't call me nigga, whitey ♪ 863 00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:35,610 ♪ Don't call me whitey, nigga ♪ 864 00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:37,980 With the Panthers, what does involvement mean? 865 00:48:38,180 --> 00:48:40,280 Does it mean contributing to the food pantry? 866 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,690 Does it mean showing up somewhere for a rally? 867 00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:45,230 All power to the people. 868 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,840 Sly's getting these pressures from the Black Panther Party, 869 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,670 but he's not a Black nationalist. 870 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,440 He doesn't believe that at face value, right? 871 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:20,140 So, he presents a song, a sound, right, that just speaks palpably to Blackness. 872 00:49:20,340 --> 00:49:22,350 Sly and the Family Stone. 873 00:49:32,820 --> 00:49:35,120 ♪ Looking at the devil ♪ 874 00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:39,410 ♪ Grinning at his gun ♪ 875 00:49:41,460 --> 00:49:43,010 ♪ Fingers start shaking ♪ 876 00:49:43,210 --> 00:49:45,830 Sly is in this incredibly creative space. 877 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,460 Nobody is coming up with funk like this. 878 00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:50,060 ♪ 879 00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:55,090 That was the first time you would hear the thumping and plucking on the bass. 880 00:49:55,290 --> 00:49:57,100 ♪ I begin to stop ♪ 881 00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:03,180 I didn't realize the impact that would have on other bass players. 882 00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:06,560 And little by little, more and more bass players are doing it 883 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,520 because folks could physically see what's happening, 884 00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:13,070 'cause by now, we've done a lot of live shows. 885 00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:14,160 We're on television. 886 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,500 Here are Sly and the Family known as Stone. 887 00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:22,830 ♪ Thank you falettinme be mice elf agin ♪ 888 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,210 ♪ Ooh, ooh ♪ 889 00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:32,510 ♪ Thank you falettinme be mice elf agin, yeah ♪ 890 00:50:36,340 --> 00:50:39,560 Thank You felt like it was just moving things forward. 891 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,480 It's just all these intricately beautiful little moments all working together. 892 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,600 ♪ Stiff all in the collar ♪ 893 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,270 People love riffs, you know. 894 00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:54,410 People know that. 895 00:50:54,610 --> 00:50:56,910 In 1989, when we were working 896 00:50:57,110 --> 00:50:59,420 on the song Rhythm Nation with Janet, 897 00:50:59,620 --> 00:51:02,940 we had the concept that Rhythm Nation should be an anthem. 898 00:51:03,140 --> 00:51:06,535 People uniting under the banner of music to heal the world. 899 00:51:06,735 --> 00:51:09,812 We had the concept, but what we didn't have was a track. 900 00:51:10,012 --> 00:51:12,890 So, I think Jimmy and Janet went to dinner. 901 00:51:13,090 --> 00:51:16,180 At a little Italian restaurant in Minneapolis. 902 00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:19,220 And, you know, there's always music playing in the background. 903 00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:22,060 They're in the middle of dinner, and Thank You came on. 904 00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:25,690 And I think to myself, oh, I love this record. 905 00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:29,560 But then all of a sudden, when the little bridge part comes in. 906 00:51:39,490 --> 00:51:41,880 - And I just said... - Jimmy said... 907 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,240 "Can I get the check? Can I get the..." I mean, I was out of there. 908 00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:47,120 Went back to the studio and he started to sample... 909 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:48,090 ♪ 910 00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:50,880 Just that piece of it and cut it up. 911 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:52,790 912 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,880 And I remember putting it into a little AMS sampler that only... 913 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,920 I think the sampler might have had six seconds 914 00:51:57,930 --> 00:52:01,020 of sampling time. 915 00:52:01,220 --> 00:52:04,510 But it was enough to get in... 916 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,310 And I literally would trigger... I just triggered it off the drums. 917 00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:09,980 I just would go... 918 00:52:12,270 --> 00:52:13,620 ♪ 919 00:52:13,820 --> 00:52:16,490 Over this beat. 920 00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:18,700 It was amazing. 921 00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:22,200 Janet walked into the studio and I said, listen to this. 922 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,490 And I just played it. 923 00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:25,700 ♪ 924 00:52:29,370 --> 00:52:31,460 - And she said... - Is that Rhythm Nation? 925 00:52:32,380 --> 00:52:35,210 And I said, yes. And she said... 926 00:52:35,410 --> 00:52:36,430 Yes. 927 00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:40,510 ♪ With music by our side to break the color lines ♪ 928 00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:44,480 Sly created this musical unity for my generation. 929 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,150 And to be able to sample that, and then create that 930 00:52:47,350 --> 00:52:51,100 for the next generation of listeners is an amazing thing. 931 00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:53,360 It was everything the song needed. 932 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,370 So, thank you... for making that lick. 933 00:52:56,570 --> 00:53:01,200 ♪ We are a part of the rhythm nation, whoo! ♪ 934 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,160 ♪ Mama's so happy ♪ 935 00:53:07,830 --> 00:53:09,460 ♪ Mama start to cry ♪ 936 00:53:10,460 --> 00:53:13,080 At that time, the white world was starting, "You know what? 937 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,830 That Sly Stone is doing something." 938 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,850 But if he was gonna keep the large audience, 939 00:53:18,050 --> 00:53:21,725 he was in a position where he couldn't show any cracks in the media. 940 00:53:21,925 --> 00:53:25,600 ♪ Dyin' young is hard to take, sellin' out is harder ♪ 941 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,270 As a Black man in America, 942 00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:30,110 when you have the microphone in front of you, what you gonna do? 943 00:53:30,310 --> 00:53:33,965 Are you gonna embarrass us? What do you have to say for yourself? 944 00:53:34,165 --> 00:53:37,727 His appearance on The Dick Cavett Show, it's extraordinary, 945 00:53:37,927 --> 00:53:41,490 because Dick Cavett had this habit of one-upsmanship. 946 00:53:41,690 --> 00:53:43,250 He's gonna be the smartest guy in the room. 947 00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:46,570 Mister S... Mister... What do I call you, actually? 948 00:53:46,580 --> 00:53:49,210 Just Misters Misters. 949 00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:51,250 Just, you like the way I did. 950 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,750 There's this whole mind game that's being played. 951 00:53:56,950 --> 00:53:58,850 Sly is high as a Georgia pine. 952 00:53:59,050 --> 00:54:01,460 He's high as a Georgia pine, but his mind is right. 953 00:54:01,470 --> 00:54:03,770 I know you're responsible for all the music that you do 954 00:54:03,970 --> 00:54:07,600 and you... that you write it, but do you sit down and write it? 955 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,720 - Do you... - Sometimes I stand up. 956 00:54:13,060 --> 00:54:16,320 And in the middle of this thing, Sly says to him, 957 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,440 "You know, I'm not... I'm not going into a battle of wits with you." 958 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,240 You know that Hemingway wrote on the top of the icebox. 959 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,740 - I'm not trying to match wits. - No, no, I know. 960 00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:27,250 I say there are writers who write standing, 961 00:54:27,450 --> 00:54:29,770 - and there are those who write... - I write in the mirror. 962 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,830 - Meaning? - Looking at a mirror. 963 00:54:38,790 --> 00:54:40,720 - Is there something I don't get about... - No, do... 964 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,300 The reason why I do that is because, uh, I can somehow, uh, 965 00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:48,730 uh, be a great critique, you know, for myself. 966 00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:51,400 - Yeah. - You know, I can react spontaneously 967 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,565 before I realize that I'm going along with what I'm doing. 968 00:54:54,765 --> 00:54:57,530 And, uh, dislike it or like it 969 00:54:57,730 --> 00:54:59,910 before I realize that I'm doing it. 970 00:55:00,110 --> 00:55:02,595 Sly, as high as he is, is completely aware 971 00:55:02,795 --> 00:55:05,080 of the game that's being played. 972 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,160 And he's like, uh, "I know what you're trying to say about me, 973 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:09,460 but, you know, I'm not taking the bait." 974 00:55:09,660 --> 00:55:12,490 This is kind of a serious question, kind of a silly question at the same time. 975 00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:14,130 Could I dress like this and play with your group? 976 00:55:14,330 --> 00:55:16,710 - Any way you like. - Wouldn't it look funny, though? 977 00:55:16,910 --> 00:55:18,930 I mean, to see somebody dressed with a tie? 978 00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:21,420 With the people that were judging the way you were dressing. 979 00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:22,640 Yeah. 980 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,470 There'd probably be a certain pressure on me, I suppose, to... 981 00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:27,430 - There's a pressure on all of us. - Oh, right. 982 00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:37,110 In America at that time, with Black artists, 983 00:55:37,310 --> 00:55:40,730 no one else has ever been elevated to these heights 984 00:55:40,930 --> 00:55:43,020 as Sly Stone was being elevated, 985 00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:47,120 not just musically, but broadly in American culture. 986 00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,410 If you're Sly Stone, there is no blueprint 987 00:55:51,610 --> 00:55:53,420 for what comes next. 988 00:55:53,620 --> 00:55:55,330 There's nobody for you to go talk to, right? 989 00:55:55,530 --> 00:55:57,510 There's never been a Black Elvis, right? 990 00:55:57,710 --> 00:56:00,460 So, you can't go to this mythical Black Elvis 991 00:56:00,660 --> 00:56:02,790 and ask, "What do I do next?" 992 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,550 For Black artists, a big part of success is guilt. 993 00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:10,480 The guilt of not just being chosen, 994 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,060 but you're necessarily going to be leaving the hood. 995 00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:16,980 You're gonna be leaving your family. 996 00:56:17,180 --> 00:56:20,145 You're... you're, you're about to go on this journey. 997 00:56:20,345 --> 00:56:23,310 If you're in a band, maybe some of your bandmates 998 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,110 are gonna come with you, but you're about to go on a journey 999 00:56:26,310 --> 00:56:28,400 that's about to be pretty lonely. 1000 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,070 ♪ 1001 00:56:32,070 --> 00:56:35,040 Around that period, we were all still living in the Bay area 1002 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:38,080 when Sly announced that he was gonna move to LA. 1003 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,620 His rationalization for it made sense. 1004 00:56:41,630 --> 00:56:43,760 It was the center of the music business. 1005 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,840 Go down there, meet all the right people. 1006 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,340 When he decided to take up residency in Los Angeles, 1007 00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:54,560 we got a big house, Bel Air. 1008 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,230 Bel Air. It was amazing. 1009 00:56:56,430 --> 00:56:57,940 It was huge, it was six acres. 1010 00:56:58,140 --> 00:57:01,810 So, we ended up with people staying for a week, 1011 00:57:02,010 --> 00:57:03,950 two weeks, just hangers-on. 1012 00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:08,120 Also, Sly brought in friends who came from the streets 1013 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,650 that he'd known for a long time that he was loyal to, 1014 00:57:11,660 --> 00:57:13,580 and that were loyal to him. 1015 00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:16,250 Sly was my friend from way back. 1016 00:57:16,450 --> 00:57:19,300 And when I got out of jail, Sly called me. 1017 00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:22,215 He said, "Man, why don't you come down here?" 1018 00:57:22,415 --> 00:57:25,130 He said, "You can have anything you want." 1019 00:57:26,170 --> 00:57:29,130 We get to Los Angeles, man, the house is full. 1020 00:57:29,330 --> 00:57:31,180 This is Sly's newfound set. 1021 00:57:31,380 --> 00:57:33,730 And I haven't been around no white dudes. 1022 00:57:33,930 --> 00:57:36,625 Now, I look like I'm at a Klu Klux Klan meeting, 1023 00:57:36,825 --> 00:57:39,520 and I done came in the wrong fucking door. 1024 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,850 But somebody say, "Bub!" Me and Sly, we embrace each other. 1025 00:57:44,050 --> 00:57:45,740 And he said, "Bub, take over." 1026 00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:48,910 I came with a crew, and we did take over. 1027 00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:53,360 And from that point, Sly knew he can do whatever the fuck he wanted to. 1028 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,540 Is that a form of separation anxiety? 1029 00:57:55,740 --> 00:57:57,790 Like being separate from your... your roots? 1030 00:57:57,990 --> 00:58:01,040 Yeah, that... that is a form of, uh, separation anxiety, 1031 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,165 because, especially as Black people, we have this thing 1032 00:58:04,365 --> 00:58:07,167 where you always kind of want to be good in your hood. 1033 00:58:07,367 --> 00:58:10,170 You know, you kind of always want to be understood, 1034 00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:11,520 acc... accepted in a way. 1035 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,380 So, I think that's always on your mind, 1036 00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:16,480 and I think sometimes it's detrimental to some artists. 1037 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,720 There were a lot of people all the time, always partying, 1038 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:20,860 a lot of drugs. 1039 00:58:21,060 --> 00:58:23,350 I can remember the rest of us looking at each other 1040 00:58:23,550 --> 00:58:25,810 and thinking, this might not be good. 1041 00:58:26,010 --> 00:58:28,070 Sly was a vulnerable individual. 1042 00:58:28,270 --> 00:58:30,910 He had incredible creative capabilities. 1043 00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:34,640 I think to be that capable, you have to be that vulnerable too. 1044 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,170 Have you gone through different kinds of changes 1045 00:58:38,370 --> 00:58:40,120 - with all the money coming in? - Yeah. 1046 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:41,130 How? 1047 00:58:41,330 --> 00:58:45,340 Well, um, the values change a little bit. 1048 00:58:45,540 --> 00:58:49,460 The values change a little bit. Uh, I know... 1049 00:58:49,660 --> 00:58:51,250 Ask me that question later, okay? 1050 00:58:51,260 --> 00:58:52,350 - Okay. - Would you do that? 1051 00:58:52,550 --> 00:58:54,470 - Alright. - Alright. Okay. 1052 00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:59,260 Sly still had the pressure of making the next record, 1053 00:58:59,460 --> 00:59:01,560 so the label did Greatest Hits. 1054 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,910 He started collaborating with different people. 1055 00:59:24,110 --> 00:59:26,380 Not much got produced. 1056 00:59:26,580 --> 00:59:29,080 They did music and got high at the same time. 1057 00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:31,290 Me and Sly, Billy Preston, 1058 00:59:31,300 --> 00:59:34,920 Buddy Miles, and Ike Turner, that was the crew. 1059 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,640 We'd come in. You know, we can get high. 1060 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,970 But we create some shit that we can say, "Okay, let that play." 1061 00:59:42,850 --> 00:59:47,190 At the same time, the touring got pretty intense. 1062 00:59:48,060 --> 00:59:49,240 You were on tour. 1063 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,820 You were doing thousands of cities. Every day, you were somewhere different. 1064 00:59:54,020 --> 00:59:55,735 Something started to go. 1065 00:59:55,935 --> 00:59:57,650 - Mm-hmm. - What went? 1066 00:59:57,660 --> 01:00:00,490 Um, uh, being late for concerts. 1067 01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:10,880 Uh, where's Sly? 1068 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,010 Around that time, I was on tour with Sly and the Family Stone. 1069 01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:21,900 My band were the original members of Funkadelic, 1070 01:00:22,100 --> 01:00:27,020 Bernie Worrell, Tiki Fulwood, Eddie Hazel, and Billy Bass Nelson. 1071 01:00:27,220 --> 01:00:33,190 ♪ You had everything, babe, a man could want ♪ 1072 01:00:33,390 --> 01:00:35,730 Did a gig in Paterson, New Jersey. 1073 01:00:35,740 --> 01:00:37,620 We were supposed to go on right before Sly, 1074 01:00:37,820 --> 01:00:40,850 and it started to rain, and we had done one set. 1075 01:00:41,050 --> 01:00:44,080 And Sly's promoter came over to us and said, 1076 01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:45,670 "Sly is in the toilet. 1077 01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:49,580 You're gonna have to go on again if you want to do the rest of the tour." 1078 01:00:50,670 --> 01:00:54,040 That was really scary because the crowd was getting a little upset 1079 01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:55,760 and they started to boo. 1080 01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:01,260 And I just screamed into the mic out of nowhere, like, "Shut up!" 1081 01:01:01,460 --> 01:01:02,810 I was pissed off at Sly. 1082 01:01:03,010 --> 01:01:07,520 I said, "Sly has been in the toilet for an hour and a half, 1083 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,570 and he's not coming out." 1084 01:01:09,770 --> 01:01:14,520 So, we played for another 20 minutes and then we figured we'd hang around 1085 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,610 and see how he handles this, Mr. Big Sly. 1086 01:01:17,810 --> 01:01:20,530 Sly came out and the crowd was booing. 1087 01:01:20,730 --> 01:01:23,250 It was my fault that we late. 1088 01:01:23,450 --> 01:01:25,960 I am sorry, I apologize. 1089 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,340 But he was so sure of himself. 1090 01:01:28,540 --> 01:01:30,550 Sly had a special power. 1091 01:01:30,750 --> 01:01:31,960 He could control our audience. 1092 01:01:35,130 --> 01:01:36,970 Yeah. 1093 01:01:37,170 --> 01:01:39,760 He can make you sit down, he can make you stand up. 1094 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,550 Stand your booty up. You know what I mean? 1095 01:01:42,750 --> 01:01:44,090 He could cause a riot. 1096 01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:47,060 The Chicago riot show. 1097 01:01:47,260 --> 01:01:48,980 I was really too young to be there. 1098 01:01:49,180 --> 01:01:51,585 I snuck down there some kind of way, yeah, I worked it out. 1099 01:01:51,785 --> 01:01:53,990 It was one of a series of free rock concerts 1100 01:01:54,190 --> 01:01:56,730 put on by Mayor Daley in the park district. 1101 01:01:56,930 --> 01:01:57,780 But all hell broke loose. 1102 01:01:57,980 --> 01:01:59,980 The crowd surged toward the stage, 1103 01:01:59,990 --> 01:02:02,705 angry because the featured group had not yet appeared. 1104 01:02:02,905 --> 01:02:05,420 Did you lose the desire to perform? 1105 01:02:05,620 --> 01:02:07,870 Was it not as much fun as it had been in the early days? 1106 01:02:08,070 --> 01:02:09,830 Well, it's not as much fun if you get, you know, 1107 01:02:10,030 --> 01:02:11,960 accused of, uh, doing things like that. 1108 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,670 I was there when it was advertised that I wasn't. 1109 01:02:18,090 --> 01:02:20,630 And a few of those kind of times can get on your nerves. 1110 01:02:22,220 --> 01:02:27,300 After that, the real inclination to be late became a habit. 1111 01:02:28,350 --> 01:02:29,970 And of course, then it progressed from there 1112 01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:31,330 to where he didn't show up at all. 1113 01:02:32,270 --> 01:02:35,110 More than anything, it was anxiety. 1114 01:02:35,310 --> 01:02:38,425 He would get nervous. And I'm like, "What is wrong with you? 1115 01:02:38,625 --> 01:02:41,740 How can you be nervous and you do this all the time?" 1116 01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:45,960 He wasn't one to let on to being anxious. 1117 01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:50,990 He always seemed to handle it, like, "Okay, I got this," you know? 1118 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,870 When the drugs became more dominant, it wasn't the case. 1119 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,210 - I'm relaxing, man. - Okay, what about you? 1120 01:02:58,410 --> 01:02:59,640 Huh? 1121 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,680 - Otto. - Otto? 1122 01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,180 - Otto... - Otto. 1123 01:03:03,380 --> 01:03:05,840 - Right. - Oh, you came... you came from Kenya. 1124 01:03:09,140 --> 01:03:11,180 - Are you the boss? - I'm the boss. 1125 01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:12,810 You ain't no boss. 1126 01:03:15,060 --> 01:03:17,350 Sly kind of stayed in his bedroom a lot, 1127 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,020 and there were pounds of blow coming in. 1128 01:03:21,030 --> 01:03:24,540 But when Sly was on that PCP shit, 1129 01:03:24,740 --> 01:03:26,890 that's when it started fucking up. 1130 01:03:27,090 --> 01:03:29,040 Angel dust, PCP. 1131 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,475 There are severe and sometimes lasting reactions. 1132 01:03:32,675 --> 01:03:35,910 At that time, I was living with Sly. 1133 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,080 He was a really good guy who had a big heart, 1134 01:03:39,090 --> 01:03:41,640 and he was generous and kind. 1135 01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,510 But at that point, he would take barbiturates to go to sleep, 1136 01:03:45,710 --> 01:03:46,560 and still do coke. 1137 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,940 It was like watching something fall over slowly. 1138 01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:52,970 You basically were his mother, watching out for him, 1139 01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:54,860 making him eat when he would wake up. 1140 01:03:55,060 --> 01:03:58,350 You had to get some food into him, because if he got the coke into him 1141 01:03:58,550 --> 01:04:00,240 before the food, he wouldn't eat. 1142 01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,240 And then, you know, I was like all the other women in his life 1143 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,240 who loved him, tried to get him to stop... to stop the drugs. 1144 01:04:13,290 --> 01:04:15,840 I couldn't stop him. I couldn't. 1145 01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,710 Nothing... the drugs were more important. 1146 01:04:18,910 --> 01:04:20,750 The most important thing in his life. 1147 01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:24,470 So, you've had personal experience with this. 1148 01:04:24,670 --> 01:04:29,840 Um, why would someone turn to, say cocaine, 1149 01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,100 as a coping mechanism? 1150 01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:34,230 This is the '60s and '70s. 1151 01:04:34,430 --> 01:04:37,930 Those were pivotal times in the use of certain drugs. 1152 01:04:37,940 --> 01:04:42,270 Um, but, um, to self-medicate, 1153 01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:46,370 and to self-soothe, 1154 01:04:46,570 --> 01:04:50,950 and to try... trying to attain a false sense 1155 01:04:51,150 --> 01:04:54,660 of everything's okay, when it's not, 1156 01:04:54,860 --> 01:04:57,960 you know, um, that's dangerous. 1157 01:05:00,750 --> 01:05:03,170 With the no-shows and the drugs, 1158 01:05:03,370 --> 01:05:04,760 it was just chaos. 1159 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,550 The existence of the band was a little bit over five-year period. 1160 01:05:10,550 --> 01:05:14,510 In the beginning, it was all about the music, period. 1161 01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:19,100 And then, it became all about other things. 1162 01:05:20,310 --> 01:05:21,980 Those weren't all good things. 1163 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,610 And then, when I felt that I just... 1164 01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,740 that I couldn't affect that any longer... 1165 01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:34,370 I just... and that, that you know, wasn't comfortable, 1166 01:05:34,570 --> 01:05:37,200 and things were... weren't happening good, 1167 01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,170 and, um, that's... 1168 01:05:40,370 --> 01:05:43,735 so I made my decision to leave, and that's what I did. 1169 01:05:43,935 --> 01:05:47,932 Matter of fact, I didn't leave to go do something else. 1170 01:05:48,132 --> 01:05:52,130 I took off a year. I was... I just would... had to stop. 1171 01:05:56,510 --> 01:05:59,125 Greg leaving, I mean, I got sick to my stomach. 1172 01:05:59,325 --> 01:06:01,940 We were all brokenhearted over it. 1173 01:06:04,610 --> 01:06:07,675 At that point, Sly was doing a lot of the tracks himself. 1174 01:06:07,875 --> 01:06:10,940 He played all the instruments, and he would lay down tracks 1175 01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:13,120 upstairs in his studio, which was in the attic, 1176 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,330 and then he would bring in some of the guys to put in some extra stuff. 1177 01:06:17,530 --> 01:06:19,630 Okay, man, you splice the best way you can. 1178 01:06:19,830 --> 01:06:21,450 Freddie'd come down there and knock it out. 1179 01:06:21,460 --> 01:06:23,050 Larry would fly in, knock it out. 1180 01:06:23,250 --> 01:06:25,470 I was already there. I'd go do my horn part. 1181 01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:29,420 Hey, can we splice something in? Hey, man, play the last thing, okay? 1182 01:06:29,620 --> 01:06:31,060 They were demoralized. 1183 01:06:31,260 --> 01:06:32,640 They were feeling like they weren't needed. 1184 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,350 Hey, hey, hey, hey. What are you doing? 1185 01:06:35,550 --> 01:06:40,560 After I left, Sly kept calling, and I didn't... I didn't participate. 1186 01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,900 So, he started using a drum machine. 1187 01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:46,350 - It was called the Rhythm King. 1188 01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,110 Drum machines weren't sophisticated like they are today. 1189 01:06:49,310 --> 01:06:52,940 It was a pretty simple and uninspiring thing. 1190 01:06:52,950 --> 01:06:55,290 It had cha-chas and stuff like that. 1191 01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:58,660 It would... you'd hear it in a lounge in a Holiday Inn. 1192 01:07:16,970 --> 01:07:19,770 So, Sly took this little rhythm machine, 1193 01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:22,470 and he started using it very cleverly, actually. 1194 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:27,150 He took the rhythm, which wasn't anything sophisticated, or funky, or fun, 1195 01:07:27,350 --> 01:07:29,440 he turned it around, and he would start the one... 1196 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,920 instead of on one, two, three, four, 1197 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:36,400 he'd start the one on two, or on three, 1198 01:07:36,410 --> 01:07:39,030 which took the rhythm that it was producing 1199 01:07:39,230 --> 01:07:40,500 and turned it inside out. 1200 01:07:40,700 --> 01:07:44,585 It made it s... "Oh, that's interesting now," you know? 1201 01:07:44,785 --> 01:07:48,670 And so, he actually created an iconic thing with it. 1202 01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:53,300 It became... a game-changer again. 1203 01:07:58,260 --> 01:08:01,720 ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1204 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,190 ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1205 01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:10,480 ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1206 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,280 ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1207 01:08:16,820 --> 01:08:20,750 ♪ One child grows up to be ♪ 1208 01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:23,170 ♪ Somebody that just loves to learn ♪ 1209 01:08:23,370 --> 01:08:29,620 ♪ And another child grows up to be ♪ 1210 01:08:29,630 --> 01:08:32,420 ♪ Somebody you'd just love to burn ♪ 1211 01:08:34,170 --> 01:08:38,480 ♪ Mom loves the both of them ♪ 1212 01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,010 ♪ You see, it's in the blood ♪ 1213 01:08:42,810 --> 01:08:46,980 ♪ Both kids are good to Mom ♪ 1214 01:08:47,180 --> 01:08:51,030 ♪ Blood's thicker than the mud, it's a family affair ♪ 1215 01:08:51,230 --> 01:08:55,730 - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1216 01:08:55,740 --> 01:08:58,870 - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ - ♪ Over there ♪ 1217 01:08:59,070 --> 01:09:02,540 I had always heard Sly on the pop white radio, basically. 1218 01:09:02,740 --> 01:09:07,200 But when Family Affair came out, the R&B stations went on it right away. 1219 01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,910 The Frankie Crockers and the Georgie Woods, 1220 01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,500 they went on that one right out the box, and it was one of them club records. 1221 01:09:13,700 --> 01:09:15,840 You know, you go by the bar any time of day. 1222 01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:20,180 ♪ Newlywed a year ago ♪ 1223 01:09:20,380 --> 01:09:24,600 ♪ But you're still checking each other out, hey ♪ 1224 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,270 ♪ Nobody ♪ 1225 01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:28,570 It was like that anthem that everybody would sing, 1226 01:09:28,770 --> 01:09:32,420 but lyrically, what he was trying to say is a little sad for me. 1227 01:09:32,620 --> 01:09:36,270 He was just laying out the dysfunction of family. 1228 01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:37,450 Talking about it's a family affair. 1229 01:09:37,650 --> 01:09:38,910 You know, you don't understand it, you don't get it. 1230 01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:42,515 That had never been a subject of a popular song before. 1231 01:09:42,715 --> 01:09:45,920 ♪ You can't cry 'cause you'll look broke down ♪ 1232 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,170 ♪ But you're cryin' anyway 'cause you're all broke down ♪ 1233 01:09:49,370 --> 01:09:53,010 - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ - ♪ It's a family affair ♪ 1234 01:09:53,210 --> 01:09:57,180 There's a Riot Goin' On. It took two and a half years 1235 01:09:57,380 --> 01:10:01,880 for Sly to produce that album because everything was falling apart. 1236 01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,310 The record company was on my case, big-time. 1237 01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:08,935 So, I created a campaign called "Two and a half years 1238 01:10:09,135 --> 01:10:12,560 is a short time to wait for a work of genius." 1239 01:10:15,610 --> 01:10:17,780 ♪ 1240 01:10:19,150 --> 01:10:22,610 With There's a Riot Goin' On, I don't think that Sylvester Stewart 1241 01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:25,570 could face doing another Everyday People. 1242 01:10:30,910 --> 01:10:33,220 Hippie Nation, they got co-opted. 1243 01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:35,670 The civil rights dream, it didn't happen. 1244 01:10:35,870 --> 01:10:37,750 ♪ 1245 01:10:40,130 --> 01:10:42,595 The anxiety, the pressure, the drug use 1246 01:10:42,795 --> 01:10:45,052 pushed him into this whole other space. 1247 01:10:45,252 --> 01:10:47,596 ♪ Feel so good inside myself ♪ 1248 01:10:47,796 --> 01:10:49,940 ♪ Don't want to move ♪ 1249 01:10:50,140 --> 01:10:54,520 ♪ Feel so good inside myself, don't need to move ♪ 1250 01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,440 ♪ As I go up, I'm going down ♪ 1251 01:11:00,780 --> 01:11:03,700 ♪ And when I'm lost, I know I will be found ♪ 1252 01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:06,620 - ♪ Feel so good ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 1253 01:11:06,820 --> 01:11:10,130 - ♪ Oh, don't want to move ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪ 1254 01:11:10,330 --> 01:11:13,830 ♪ Feel so good inside myself, don't need to move ♪ 1255 01:11:15,460 --> 01:11:19,840 Riot is the grime, it's dirt, and it's him grabbing his nuts on it. 1256 01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,420 The title itself is an answer to Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, 1257 01:11:24,430 --> 01:11:26,890 which was so beautifully seductive. 1258 01:11:27,090 --> 01:11:29,550 Riot is raw. It's raw as fuck. 1259 01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,100 1260 01:11:49,410 --> 01:11:52,500 I hear a person that is reimagining his own music 1261 01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:56,130 at that time to stay interested and try different things. 1262 01:11:56,330 --> 01:11:59,750 With Thank You for Talkin' to Me, Africa, he was doing chopped and screwed 1263 01:11:59,950 --> 01:12:01,720 before chopped and screwed. 1264 01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:08,100 ♪ Thank you falettinme be mice elf agin ♪ 1265 01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:11,900 'Cause he had huge pop success from Woodstock, 1266 01:12:12,100 --> 01:12:15,560 I could see Sly wanting to say, "Now, wait a minute now. 1267 01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:17,490 "I'm... I'm still a brother, you know. 1268 01:12:17,690 --> 01:12:19,560 "I'm still a nigga, you know what I'm saying? 1269 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:20,810 I'll still fuck y'all niggas up." 1270 01:12:20,820 --> 01:12:23,280 I can see Sly being on some shit like that. 1271 01:12:24,990 --> 01:12:26,910 There's a Riot Goin' On album cover. 1272 01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:31,910 That red, black, and white flag inspired the Stankonia album cover. 1273 01:12:32,110 --> 01:12:35,340 To wrap that flag around you is interesting 1274 01:12:35,540 --> 01:12:39,500 when you see a Black person do it, because you know our version of America 1275 01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:43,400 is... is different from the rest of the world's view of America. 1276 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,300 We're in an America, but then we're in a Black America too. 1277 01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:48,810 We're in two different realities. 1278 01:12:49,010 --> 01:12:54,190 ♪ My only weapon is my pen ♪ 1279 01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:58,690 ♪ And the frame of mind I'm in ♪ 1280 01:12:58,890 --> 01:13:03,480 With Riot, some people felt fundamentally betrayed, you know? 1281 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,910 They said, "Oh, well, we thought you were... 1282 01:13:06,110 --> 01:13:09,055 "We thought you were an integrationist. We thought you were an accommoda... 1283 01:13:09,255 --> 01:13:12,192 Uh, we thought we were... we thought we were good, we were cool," right? 1284 01:13:12,392 --> 01:13:15,330 And there's some shocking things that critics had to say about him. 1285 01:13:15,530 --> 01:13:19,050 ♪ Yeah, a poet ♪ 1286 01:13:19,250 --> 01:13:22,290 The sharpness of those critiques says that he was being punished. 1287 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,970 ♪ Said the things I flash on every day ♪ 1288 01:13:27,170 --> 01:13:31,130 Black musicians were still, in the eyes of many, just entertainers. 1289 01:13:31,140 --> 01:13:34,100 ♪ Reflect on what I say ♪ 1290 01:13:35,390 --> 01:13:36,650 And part of what the critics are saying 1291 01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:40,400 in their critique of Riot is, "Just entertain us." 1292 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:44,150 What is this self-indulgent, uppity nigga shit? 1293 01:13:44,860 --> 01:13:46,370 Do you think there's a double standard 1294 01:13:46,570 --> 01:13:49,690 where some artists are allowed to change, and grow, and evolve, 1295 01:13:49,700 --> 01:13:51,890 and then some artists aren't allowed to do that? 1296 01:13:52,090 --> 01:13:54,080 Well, if you think about somebody like David Bowie, 1297 01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:59,270 he was allowed to have the space and the comfort to be able to go 1298 01:13:59,470 --> 01:14:04,460 through his chameleon-like creative and artistic changes. 1299 01:14:04,660 --> 01:14:07,600 That space is not the same for Sly. 1300 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,180 I think with Black innovation, you're risking people looking at you, 1301 01:14:11,380 --> 01:14:14,760 thinking that you're weird and you're odd, and you're on to some other shit. 1302 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:16,510 It may fuck with you. 1303 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,230 Sly was starting to sing about unsettling things 1304 01:14:21,430 --> 01:14:24,605 in a way that would creep up on you. 1305 01:14:24,805 --> 01:14:27,980 ♪ Runnin' away to get away ♪ 1306 01:14:28,180 --> 01:14:30,290 ♪ Ha-ha, ha-ha ♪ 1307 01:14:30,490 --> 01:14:35,500 ♪ You're wearin' out your shoes ♪ 1308 01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:39,450 He's really talking about, "Yo, yo, dude, the walls are closing in on you, ha-ha." 1309 01:14:39,650 --> 01:14:44,120 ♪ The deeper in debt, the harder you bet ♪ 1310 01:14:44,130 --> 01:14:49,500 ♪ He-he, he-he, you need more room to play ♪ 1311 01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:52,325 "The deeper in debt, the harder you bet." 1312 01:14:52,525 --> 01:14:55,140 That in particular always gets to me. 1313 01:14:55,340 --> 01:14:58,300 - ♪ Look at you foolin' you ♪ - "Look at you foolin' you." 1314 01:14:58,310 --> 01:15:01,100 It's like you're speaking to your own subconscious. 1315 01:15:02,140 --> 01:15:05,780 I think he had a lot of insecurity, a lot of fear. 1316 01:15:05,980 --> 01:15:10,070 He never talked to me about fear, because he was very proud. 1317 01:15:10,270 --> 01:15:14,050 But I think his fear started when Greg left the band, 1318 01:15:14,250 --> 01:15:18,030 because he never thought anybody in the band would leave. 1319 01:15:18,990 --> 01:15:22,950 Paranoia might have set in. You know, people start losing it. 1320 01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,260 Little petty things start happening. 1321 01:15:25,460 --> 01:15:28,960 Anything that's negative. I always have a tendency 1322 01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,010 to, you know, drift away from that. 1323 01:15:31,210 --> 01:15:36,515 I didn't see any issues with Sly and Larry at the beginning, 1324 01:15:36,715 --> 01:15:41,820 but there were people around that stirred up stuff. 1325 01:15:42,020 --> 01:15:45,235 There was rumors that Larry was afraid for his life, 1326 01:15:45,435 --> 01:15:48,650 'cause, you know, Bubba and some... some other stuff. 1327 01:16:00,700 --> 01:16:02,500 When you're in a family, 1328 01:16:02,700 --> 01:16:07,540 there just comes a point where you leave home. 1329 01:16:08,830 --> 01:16:12,420 When it was time to go, I just left. 1330 01:16:13,710 --> 01:16:16,050 It wasn't complicated. 1331 01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:18,590 It's just, I'm gone. 1332 01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:26,890 What's your definition of self-sabotage? 1333 01:16:28,350 --> 01:16:31,520 There are a million ways to self-sabotage as an artist. 1334 01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,410 Some of them are self-harming, 1335 01:16:34,610 --> 01:16:39,120 you know, through overuse of drugs and alcohol. 1336 01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,560 Not showing up for shows, not showing up on time. 1337 01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,260 The biggest way, though, is to ruin relationships, 1338 01:16:46,460 --> 01:16:49,960 because most art requires collaboration. 1339 01:16:52,090 --> 01:16:54,170 ♪ 1340 01:16:57,220 --> 01:16:59,840 After that, I felt like, what more could happen? 1341 01:17:01,220 --> 01:17:02,690 Sly would bring in new members. 1342 01:17:02,890 --> 01:17:05,720 Rustee learned all of Larry's parts. He's a hell of a bass player. 1343 01:17:05,730 --> 01:17:07,680 ♪ Bullets start chasin' ♪ 1344 01:17:07,690 --> 01:17:10,400 He hired Pat Rizzo. He was a great jazz player. 1345 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:11,570 ♪ I begin to stop, ow ♪ 1346 01:17:11,770 --> 01:17:15,370 Andy Newmark came in. He was a badass drummer. 1347 01:17:15,570 --> 01:17:18,805 ♪ Thank you falettinme be mice elf agin ♪ 1348 01:17:19,005 --> 01:17:22,240 We were still a great band. 1349 01:17:23,910 --> 01:17:27,120 But the original band could not be duplicated. 1350 01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:28,960 All you can do is just make shit work. 1351 01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,040 ♪ 1352 01:17:33,170 --> 01:17:36,000 Sly didn't need the band. He needed the band to tour 1353 01:17:36,010 --> 01:17:38,760 because the audience needed to hear the hits. 1354 01:17:39,970 --> 01:17:42,050 But for the music that Sly had in his head, 1355 01:17:42,250 --> 01:17:44,020 the band wasn't necessary. 1356 01:17:44,220 --> 01:17:47,645 The sense of collectivism had completely vanished, 1357 01:17:47,845 --> 01:17:51,070 and he had become the subject of the music. 1358 01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:55,030 His self-inflicted wounds, the ways in which he messed up, 1359 01:17:55,230 --> 01:17:59,070 the ways in which he could have died of a drug overdose. 1360 01:17:59,270 --> 01:18:00,870 ♪ Yeah, oh ♪ 1361 01:18:01,070 --> 01:18:04,780 ♪ Sunday morning, I forgot my prayer ♪ 1362 01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:10,120 ♪ I should have been happy, yeah, I still be there ♪ 1363 01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:13,580 - ♪ Something could have come ♪ - ♪ Thankful ♪ 1364 01:18:13,780 --> 01:18:15,960 ♪ And taken me away ♪ 1365 01:18:17,130 --> 01:18:18,840 - ♪ But the main man felt ♪ - ♪ Thoughtful ♪ 1366 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:21,310 ♪ Syl should be here another day ♪ 1367 01:18:21,510 --> 01:18:25,800 The words and the music are indicative of the life that I live. 1368 01:18:25,810 --> 01:18:30,230 So, it's the truth, so... and you can't really get around the people 1369 01:18:30,430 --> 01:18:31,690 when they hear the truth. 1370 01:18:31,890 --> 01:18:34,600 If you live long enough, they'll find out 1371 01:18:34,610 --> 01:18:38,220 whether you're telling the truth or whether you're jiving. 1372 01:18:38,420 --> 01:18:42,030 ♪ There's a mickey in the tasting of disaster ♪ 1373 01:18:42,230 --> 01:18:44,240 - ♪ In time ♪ - ♪ In time ♪ 1374 01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:45,500 ♪ You get faster ♪ 1375 01:18:45,700 --> 01:18:49,830 Fresh is the last great Sly and the Family Stone record. 1376 01:18:50,030 --> 01:18:51,250 ♪ As if he has to ♪ 1377 01:18:52,500 --> 01:18:55,130 In many ways, that's the purest Sly that we hear. 1378 01:18:55,330 --> 01:18:57,650 Not driven by the market, looking inward. 1379 01:18:57,850 --> 01:18:59,970 ♪ Something moving in the brain ♪ 1380 01:19:00,170 --> 01:19:02,075 But the music was going in a different direction, 1381 01:19:02,275 --> 01:19:04,180 and it was not reaching white people anymore. 1382 01:19:04,380 --> 01:19:05,350 ♪ Feel a little newer ♪ 1383 01:19:05,550 --> 01:19:09,010 Even with all of his sophistication and his charm, 1384 01:19:09,210 --> 01:19:13,020 he was so isolated with his virtuosity. 1385 01:19:13,220 --> 01:19:15,480 One, two, three, unh. 1386 01:19:17,610 --> 01:19:19,450 Faster! Faster! Faster! 1387 01:19:19,650 --> 01:19:22,780 Yeah, alright, uh-huh. 1388 01:19:24,450 --> 01:19:28,740 ♪ If you want me to stay, I'll be around today ♪ 1389 01:19:28,940 --> 01:19:32,620 ♪ To be available for you to see ♪ 1390 01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:37,800 ♪ I'm about to go, and then you'll know ♪ 1391 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,425 ♪ Want me to stay here? I got to be all me ♪ 1392 01:19:41,625 --> 01:19:44,697 By that time, Sly became a little less relevant. 1393 01:19:44,897 --> 01:19:47,970 He had influenced so many different artists, 1394 01:19:48,170 --> 01:19:50,360 but new supersedes old, always. 1395 01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,430 So now, the same musicians influenced by Sly Stone 1396 01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:56,140 became his competition. 1397 01:19:56,150 --> 01:19:58,860 So, he had to figure out how to stay on the train. 1398 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,900 Guests were here at Madison Square Garden last night 1399 01:20:04,100 --> 01:20:05,830 where 30-year-old Sylvester Stewart, 1400 01:20:06,030 --> 01:20:09,170 better known as Sly Stone of Sly and the Family Stone, 1401 01:20:09,370 --> 01:20:12,125 was married to his 20-year-old sweetheart, Kathy Silva. 1402 01:20:12,325 --> 01:20:15,080 Sly and Kathy already have a nine-month-old son. 1403 01:20:16,420 --> 01:20:19,000 As a publicity thing, I thought it was stupid. 1404 01:20:20,090 --> 01:20:22,805 In all reality, I don't know if I should even say this on here, 1405 01:20:23,005 --> 01:20:25,720 but that's the only way we could still sell out the Garden. 1406 01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:27,980 By the power that is invested in me, 1407 01:20:28,180 --> 01:20:29,810 I pronounce that they are husband and wife. 1408 01:20:30,010 --> 01:20:31,640 In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. 1409 01:20:36,810 --> 01:20:38,350 ♪ My baby ♪ 1410 01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:42,200 The wedding was the height of Sly's celebrity, 1411 01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:45,580 but his career was on a downward trajectory. 1412 01:20:45,780 --> 01:20:49,450 His appearances on talk shows, hosting music awards. 1413 01:20:49,650 --> 01:20:51,330 ♪ 1414 01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:55,000 ♪ Oh, they still do the polka In Milwaukee ♪ 1415 01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:58,470 ♪ Still do the waltz in Tennessee ♪ 1416 01:20:58,670 --> 01:21:01,080 All this ridiculous shit that we see him doing. 1417 01:21:01,090 --> 01:21:04,420 We're standing here with the table tennis men's doubles champion. 1418 01:21:04,620 --> 01:21:06,430 Get him, Sly, get him. Get him, Sly. 1419 01:21:06,630 --> 01:21:10,220 It's part of the spectacle of him trying to remain relevant 1420 01:21:10,420 --> 01:21:14,390 when the culture has passed him by, musically. 1421 01:21:32,370 --> 01:21:34,960 When the band officially broke up? 1422 01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:39,000 Probably Radio City Music Hall, New York. 1423 01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,080 ♪ 1424 01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:45,930 - Okay, come on, man. - Okay, we shooting? 1425 01:21:46,130 --> 01:21:49,305 We're gonna... you're gonna be at the, uh, hall, right? 1426 01:21:49,505 --> 01:21:52,680 We're gonna play. We got the best group in the world. 1427 01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:54,940 Okay? 1428 01:21:55,140 --> 01:21:57,570 I heard that! 1429 01:21:57,770 --> 01:22:00,640 Aren't you gonna ask me about Kathy, or the baby, or something? 1430 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,610 Exactly. What is happening with the wife and the baby? 1431 01:22:03,810 --> 01:22:05,780 They're doing what I tell 'em to do. 1432 01:22:07,570 --> 01:22:08,950 'Cause there's rumors that you broke up. 1433 01:22:09,150 --> 01:22:10,410 Tell me how you felt when you were at the Garden... 1434 01:22:10,610 --> 01:22:12,910 There were rumors that I wasn't gonna be at Radio City Music Hall. 1435 01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,280 ♪ But you got that wrong ♪ 1436 01:22:16,290 --> 01:22:18,750 Okay? 1437 01:22:18,950 --> 01:22:21,440 Those performances ended up being pretty disastrous. 1438 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:23,930 It was empty. 1439 01:22:24,130 --> 01:22:26,040 There was maybe 200 people. 1440 01:22:26,050 --> 01:22:28,880 It was the worst show that Sly and the Family Stone, 1441 01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:30,800 in my opinion, ever played. 1442 01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,840 It was a lousy gig. My chops weren't up. 1443 01:22:34,850 --> 01:22:36,390 We hadn't been playing. 1444 01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:43,650 I went back to my hotel and Sly left, he... he got out of town. 1445 01:22:44,650 --> 01:22:47,980 But I never got paid, and so, uh, I was stuck. 1446 01:22:48,180 --> 01:22:49,530 I couldn't pay my hotel bill. 1447 01:22:50,610 --> 01:22:53,250 I didn't think that anybody in this crew 1448 01:22:53,450 --> 01:22:55,660 would ever want to not play with each other. 1449 01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:59,450 But everybody walked away from it. 1450 01:23:03,250 --> 01:23:05,340 As a Black artist, how hard is it 1451 01:23:05,540 --> 01:23:10,010 to be vulnerable in front of a world watching you? 1452 01:23:11,010 --> 01:23:14,130 It's really hard. It's... it's the hardest thing to do. 1453 01:23:14,140 --> 01:23:18,310 The hang-ups, baggage, guilt, 1454 01:23:18,510 --> 01:23:22,040 and the pain and the shame that comes with it, you know? 1455 01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:25,770 And if you don't know how to handle it, if you don't... 1456 01:23:26,900 --> 01:23:29,830 have your soul centered, 1457 01:23:30,030 --> 01:23:34,160 and people around you that you really trust, 1458 01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:37,200 and people that really know you and that's really down for you... 1459 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:39,910 Yeah, man, it can be... 1460 01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:44,010 could be unbearable, man. Yeah. 1461 01:23:44,210 --> 01:23:48,090 You... It'll make... it'll turn you into an unwilling participant. 1462 01:23:49,380 --> 01:23:51,800 And that's... that's equivalent to hell. 1463 01:23:58,010 --> 01:24:01,270 Sly Stone was on the top of the music scene for ten years. 1464 01:24:01,470 --> 01:24:04,430 He had eight gold records, toured the world several times, 1465 01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:07,280 caused mob scenes wherever he went, sold out concerts, 1466 01:24:07,480 --> 01:24:10,120 and packed Madison Square Garden for his wedding. 1467 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:14,360 But for the past few years, Sly has become less than a household word. 1468 01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,370 Well, whatever happened to Sly Stone? 1469 01:24:18,530 --> 01:24:20,130 It's nice to be missed. 1470 01:24:20,330 --> 01:24:22,160 It makes you feel like you're on the right track 1471 01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:24,330 if somebody says, "Well, where is Sly?" 1472 01:24:24,530 --> 01:24:25,830 I've been relaxing. 1473 01:24:28,290 --> 01:24:31,675 - You mean, you've sort of been on a break? - Yes. 1474 01:24:31,875 --> 01:24:35,060 If you were just a disc jockey, say at KSOL still, 1475 01:24:35,260 --> 01:24:40,260 and not Sly Stone, rock star, do you think that pressures in the... 1476 01:24:40,460 --> 01:24:43,400 in lifestyle would be less, maybe? 1477 01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,810 I think that I was... if I were doing anything else, I'd be bored. 1478 01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:53,030 So, I just take it... it all in stride. 1479 01:24:53,230 --> 01:24:56,400 You know, I... I have to do what I do anyway, 1480 01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:58,110 'cause that's what I want to do. 1481 01:24:58,310 --> 01:24:59,620 So much, you know? 1482 01:24:59,820 --> 01:25:03,660 So, it's like, I'm trapped doing what I want to do anyway. 1483 01:25:03,860 --> 01:25:05,370 Okay, play it. 1484 01:25:08,790 --> 01:25:10,880 ♪ 1485 01:25:12,210 --> 01:25:14,820 At this point, when Sly would try to recreate 1486 01:25:15,020 --> 01:25:17,430 what he did in the past, it was pathetic. 1487 01:25:17,630 --> 01:25:20,770 It's like a woman or a man dyeing their hair. 1488 01:25:20,970 --> 01:25:23,850 You can't bring it back. I mean, it looks dyed. 1489 01:25:24,050 --> 01:25:26,900 ♪ Feels like family again ♪ 1490 01:25:27,100 --> 01:25:30,980 It sounds like Sly's struggling to make optimistic records. 1491 01:25:31,180 --> 01:25:33,240 But to make an optimistic record 1492 01:25:33,440 --> 01:25:35,450 when you don't feel optimism is the worst. 1493 01:25:35,650 --> 01:25:40,070 Toward the end of the '70s, we almost signed him to Motown. 1494 01:25:40,270 --> 01:25:42,580 His gift was abundant, 1495 01:25:42,780 --> 01:25:46,040 but he was damaged goods at that point. 1496 01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:50,000 How does that make you feel to see other artists become addicts 1497 01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:54,170 in order to cope with what they're going through? 1498 01:25:54,370 --> 01:25:58,340 If you've been on this heightened, explosive life, 1499 01:25:58,540 --> 01:26:01,230 your body has taken in so much energy, 1500 01:26:01,430 --> 01:26:05,560 you've given out so much energy, and you stop. 1501 01:26:07,310 --> 01:26:09,940 Where does that go? Where's that energy go? 1502 01:26:11,060 --> 01:26:12,780 Or what are you feeding from? 1503 01:26:12,980 --> 01:26:15,150 What's taking up that space now? 1504 01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:19,000 Sly Stone, where have you been the last few years, man? 1505 01:26:21,410 --> 01:26:23,450 You haven't been doing much. Are you... you gonna... 1506 01:26:35,340 --> 01:26:37,540 Are you guys gonna be working out together now, or what? 1507 01:26:38,380 --> 01:26:39,380 - Really? - Yeah. 1508 01:26:39,580 --> 01:26:40,270 No. 1509 01:26:40,470 --> 01:26:42,310 Me and Sly, we was tight. 1510 01:26:42,510 --> 01:26:45,310 So, when it came time for P-Funk to go on tour, 1511 01:26:45,510 --> 01:26:50,190 we got Sly to open up for us on the very first Mothership tour. 1512 01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:53,940 ♪ Time is passing, I grow older, things are happening fast ♪ 1513 01:26:54,140 --> 01:26:58,025 ♪ All I have to hold onto is a simple song at last ♪ 1514 01:26:58,225 --> 01:27:01,910 - ♪ Well, let me hear you say ♪ - ♪ Ya ♪ 1515 01:27:02,110 --> 01:27:06,830 - ♪ Ya-ya-ya, ya ♪ - ♪ Yeah, whoo, sing a simple song ♪ 1516 01:27:07,030 --> 01:27:08,850 We still had fun until we didn't. 1517 01:27:09,050 --> 01:27:10,670 But he did his same habits. 1518 01:27:10,870 --> 01:27:13,250 If the promoters got him pissed off enough, 1519 01:27:13,450 --> 01:27:14,670 you know, he might not come on. 1520 01:27:16,250 --> 01:27:18,405 - Yeah, we got... - Sly. 1521 01:27:18,605 --> 01:27:20,560 ♪ Ya-ya-ya ♪ 1522 01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:22,550 Hey, Sly, shake what you brought with you. 1523 01:27:22,750 --> 01:27:24,100 ♪ Ya-ya-ya, ya ♪ 1524 01:27:24,300 --> 01:27:26,510 - Everybody... - I'll be... I'll be back. 1525 01:27:26,710 --> 01:27:28,310 Yeah, yeah! 1526 01:27:28,510 --> 01:27:30,690 Yeah, Sly Stone, y'all! 1527 01:27:30,890 --> 01:27:33,810 You and Sly are hanging out a lot in the '70s and '80s. 1528 01:27:34,010 --> 01:27:35,850 What was that relationship like? 1529 01:27:35,860 --> 01:27:39,200 90% of the time, chasing the drugs. 1530 01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,540 ♪ I know you want to ♪ 1531 01:27:42,740 --> 01:27:46,015 By then, the crack thing come and Me and Sly, 1532 01:27:46,215 --> 01:27:49,290 well, I'll put it like that. We were crackheads. 1533 01:27:49,490 --> 01:27:52,660 Crack... the cheap, highly addictive form of cocaine. 1534 01:27:52,860 --> 01:27:54,010 What is that feeling like? 1535 01:27:54,210 --> 01:27:56,750 Like, what's the... what's the power you feel, the rush you feel? 1536 01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:59,040 Almost like getting a nut. 1537 01:28:03,170 --> 01:28:05,575 And the fact is that after that first one, 1538 01:28:05,775 --> 01:28:08,180 it don't happen no more like that. 1539 01:28:08,380 --> 01:28:09,560 You are hooked at that time. 1540 01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,110 Would you ever talk to him about like, 1541 01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:14,850 "Maybe we should slow down a little bit or..."? 1542 01:28:15,050 --> 01:28:17,110 Why? 1543 01:28:17,310 --> 01:28:20,520 No, no, hell, no. I mean, that was... that... 1544 01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:22,690 I think that might have been our problem. 1545 01:28:22,890 --> 01:28:24,790 We was like two kids. 1546 01:28:24,990 --> 01:28:27,225 Once we got together, when we got busted together... 1547 01:28:27,425 --> 01:28:29,460 You guys got busted together? 1548 01:28:29,660 --> 01:28:32,740 Yeah, the police, before they even said anything to us, 1549 01:28:32,750 --> 01:28:36,870 "Oh, no, Sly Stone and Dr. Funkenstein. Oh, hell no." 1550 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:41,010 Sly was a master at transmitting parables, 1551 01:28:41,210 --> 01:28:44,100 and it had to be incredibly difficult 1552 01:28:44,300 --> 01:28:48,270 to find yourself in the middle of a parable yourself. 1553 01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:50,800 Audiences couldn't get enough of hits like Everyday People, 1554 01:28:50,810 --> 01:28:52,980 Dance to the Music, I Want to Take You Higher. 1555 01:28:53,180 --> 01:28:56,770 But behind the scenes, Sly was taking himself higher, with drugs. 1556 01:28:56,970 --> 01:28:58,990 The effect on his career was devastating. 1557 01:28:59,190 --> 01:29:02,655 A story of incredible promise and great success, 1558 01:29:02,855 --> 01:29:06,120 leading to a kind of, you know, public tragedy. 1559 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,860 Sly Stone of the 1970s rock group Sly and the Family Stone, 1560 01:29:09,870 --> 01:29:11,080 who was arrested last summer 1561 01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:13,040 for possession of cocaine, pleaded no contest. 1562 01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,210 He was an eyesore. He was shameful. 1563 01:29:16,410 --> 01:29:19,290 This person was a renegade, and America always loves it 1564 01:29:19,490 --> 01:29:22,140 when renegades are brought to heel. 1565 01:29:22,340 --> 01:29:26,510 In the early '80s, we're entering into a conservatism, 1566 01:29:26,710 --> 01:29:28,930 not just in the media, but in the general public. 1567 01:29:29,130 --> 01:29:31,140 Drugs are menacing our society. 1568 01:29:31,340 --> 01:29:32,690 Just say no. 1569 01:29:32,890 --> 01:29:35,460 So, I'm not surprised that in Sly's case, 1570 01:29:35,660 --> 01:29:38,030 the reporting was so joyful and gleeful. 1571 01:29:38,230 --> 01:29:42,150 He also lost a small fortune, blamed on, depending who you talk to, 1572 01:29:42,350 --> 01:29:45,070 high living, bad management, swindling promoters 1573 01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:46,870 and record producers, and drugs. 1574 01:29:47,070 --> 01:29:51,660 Sly was a great person to be made an example of, 1575 01:29:51,860 --> 01:29:54,280 and he did himself no favors. 1576 01:29:54,290 --> 01:29:57,800 By the 1980s, Sly Stone gets totally divorced 1577 01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:03,500 from his contributions to the culture that were so powerful and palpable 1578 01:30:03,700 --> 01:30:06,500 in the late 1960s and early 1970s. 1579 01:30:06,510 --> 01:30:08,430 - You ready to get real good and serious? - Sure. 1580 01:30:08,630 --> 01:30:10,660 - Yeah, I want to get serious. - Sure, anything. 1581 01:30:10,860 --> 01:30:12,690 Any... any way you want to go. 1582 01:30:12,890 --> 01:30:16,720 - Were you into the drug scene? - Y... A bit. A bit. 1583 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:19,030 What did you take? What were you into? 1584 01:30:19,230 --> 01:30:23,020 I smoked marijuana. I tried angel dust, which is... 1585 01:30:23,220 --> 01:30:24,320 I wanna do... I wanna do 1586 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,425 a public service spot for everybody. 1587 01:30:26,625 --> 01:30:28,330 Do it right here. Do it on this show. 1588 01:30:28,530 --> 01:30:29,830 - Well... - Do it right now on angel dust, please. 1589 01:30:30,030 --> 01:30:31,780 I didn't smoke a long time, I just tried... tried the mess. 1590 01:30:31,980 --> 01:30:33,450 - Please do it for me... - It's about nothing. 1591 01:30:33,650 --> 01:30:35,250 It's about nothing. 1592 01:30:35,450 --> 01:30:37,990 And the worst thing that it could be about if... 1593 01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:40,420 when I tried it, is that there are a lot of people 1594 01:30:40,620 --> 01:30:44,790 that like to be about somebody that they dig, you know what I mean? 1595 01:30:44,990 --> 01:30:46,890 - Mm-hmm. - And just because maybe my brain 1596 01:30:47,090 --> 01:30:49,960 did not collapse, and thank God... All praise is due to who? 1597 01:30:49,970 --> 01:30:51,100 You know what I mean? 1598 01:30:51,300 --> 01:30:54,705 It's too... it's bad for other people that may admire you. 1599 01:30:54,905 --> 01:30:58,310 My part on this Earth is to be an example, and it's very hard. 1600 01:30:58,510 --> 01:31:01,350 It's a lonely trip sometimes. It is. 1601 01:31:02,350 --> 01:31:04,240 Mike Douglas is pushing Sly, 1602 01:31:04,440 --> 01:31:08,320 "Can you say to the crowd why angel dust is bad," 1603 01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:12,400 but never asking him, "Where were you in your life 1604 01:31:12,410 --> 01:31:16,210 that you felt the need to have to take on angel dust?" 1605 01:31:16,410 --> 01:31:20,020 There's a desire for Black folks to blow up in public. 1606 01:31:20,220 --> 01:31:23,630 And unfortunately, it's not just white folks. 1607 01:31:23,830 --> 01:31:26,420 There are Black folks who are complicit in this also, 1608 01:31:26,620 --> 01:31:27,680 because it's human nature. 1609 01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,060 The first part of it is jokes. 1610 01:31:31,260 --> 01:31:35,340 Then the second thing is usually some sort of just, like, tear-down. 1611 01:31:35,540 --> 01:31:39,020 And then, lastly, the finishing blow. 1612 01:31:39,220 --> 01:31:41,810 It gets violent, where it's like, "Fuck that motherfucker." 1613 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,570 He had gone into rehab once. 1614 01:31:44,770 --> 01:31:48,940 I remember, um, hearing from a few people I knew that were in there, 1615 01:31:49,140 --> 01:31:50,450 "Man, Sly looks great." 1616 01:31:50,650 --> 01:31:53,530 And he was doing great. It was really happening. 1617 01:31:53,730 --> 01:31:56,610 The place is a, uh, a rehabilitation center. 1618 01:31:56,620 --> 01:31:59,840 Uh, you get a chance to, uh... 1619 01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:04,290 to, uh, find out about getting up early mornings, doing chores. 1620 01:32:04,490 --> 01:32:06,370 You get great therapy. 1621 01:32:06,380 --> 01:32:09,695 There's nice counseling to find out things about yourself 1622 01:32:09,895 --> 01:32:13,210 that maybe for some reason, you could have forgotten. 1623 01:32:13,220 --> 01:32:16,140 And, uh, and I'm straight now. 1624 01:32:16,340 --> 01:32:20,970 It lasted for, I don't know, several months, maybe six months. 1625 01:32:22,060 --> 01:32:25,980 And then, things went back to the way they were, unfortunately. 1626 01:32:26,180 --> 01:32:30,370 ♪ I've been so high I touched the sky ♪ 1627 01:32:30,570 --> 01:32:37,160 ♪ And the sky says, Sly, won't you just try hard to get by ♪ 1628 01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:40,170 As a kid, hearing about him 1629 01:32:40,370 --> 01:32:45,120 being arrested, or, you know, for drugs or whatever... 1630 01:32:46,210 --> 01:32:48,130 um, I didn't like it. 1631 01:32:49,290 --> 01:32:51,930 I always wanted him to be the person 1632 01:32:52,130 --> 01:32:55,930 that I was always told he was when I was a baby. 1633 01:32:56,130 --> 01:32:59,305 My parents separated around the time I was two. 1634 01:32:59,505 --> 01:33:02,480 They had the divorce a few years later. 1635 01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:05,020 He was a rock-and-roller, and she didn't want me 1636 01:33:05,220 --> 01:33:06,810 to grow up in that life. 1637 01:33:07,810 --> 01:33:11,195 I think that my dad is really actually shy, 1638 01:33:11,395 --> 01:33:14,652 and I think drugs helped him be fearless. 1639 01:33:14,852 --> 01:33:17,910 My parents are Cynthia Robinson, 1640 01:33:18,110 --> 01:33:22,200 the original and only trumpet player of Sly and the Family Stone 1641 01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:26,495 and Sylvester Stewart, a.k.a. Sly Stone. 1642 01:33:26,695 --> 01:33:30,590 My mom loved him more than any man. 1643 01:33:30,790 --> 01:33:34,250 She never dated another man after my dad. 1644 01:33:34,260 --> 01:33:36,220 But he wasn't always around. 1645 01:33:36,420 --> 01:33:39,115 And when I lived with my mom, I was the only kid around, 1646 01:33:39,315 --> 01:33:42,022 just in an adult world, to where I thought I was grown. 1647 01:33:42,222 --> 01:33:44,730 One time, I was playing house with my friends, 1648 01:33:44,930 --> 01:33:47,930 and my dad had just came by, and every time he would leave, 1649 01:33:47,940 --> 01:33:49,850 there'd be about four or five razor blades, 1650 01:33:50,050 --> 01:33:50,950 you know, splattered around the house. 1651 01:33:51,150 --> 01:33:54,220 So, I went and grabbed me one, and my box of chalk, 1652 01:33:54,420 --> 01:33:57,290 and I said, "We gonna do what the grown folks do." 1653 01:33:57,490 --> 01:34:01,030 So, I got my chalk, and I chopped up about 37 lines of chalk out there, 1654 01:34:01,230 --> 01:34:02,790 got the Monopoly money, rolled it up. 1655 01:34:02,990 --> 01:34:05,330 Okay, I had the kids out there. We out there... 1656 01:34:05,530 --> 01:34:06,960 About 19 lines. 1657 01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:09,630 We sneezing and shit, and... 1658 01:34:09,830 --> 01:34:12,080 My mama came out and was like, "What are you doing?" 1659 01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:13,760 We got... I mean, it's green and pink, 1660 01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:15,510 'cause you know, the chalk be different colors. 1661 01:34:15,710 --> 01:34:19,180 And I'm talking about, "Nothing!" She beat the brakes off me. 1662 01:34:20,340 --> 01:34:22,560 I don't know when I became aware 1663 01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:26,570 of my dad's issues with the law or with drugs. 1664 01:34:26,770 --> 01:34:30,060 I didn't have a lot of interaction with my dad when I was a kid. 1665 01:34:30,940 --> 01:34:35,900 My mother and my dad were together till I was only about three years old. 1666 01:34:36,100 --> 01:34:39,440 When I was maybe 10 or something, I called his house, 1667 01:34:39,450 --> 01:34:41,820 and he was so out of it that he didn't even know who I was, 1668 01:34:42,020 --> 01:34:44,330 and it was just like, I didn't like that. 1669 01:34:44,530 --> 01:34:47,700 It was not a good feeling, and I wanted... at that point, 1670 01:34:47,900 --> 01:34:49,710 I wanted something better for him. 1671 01:34:55,460 --> 01:34:56,590 ♪ Whoo! ♪ 1672 01:34:58,380 --> 01:35:02,300 In the years that I was with Sly, he always wanted to create new music. 1673 01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:04,310 He never focused on his old songs. 1674 01:35:04,510 --> 01:35:08,430 ♪ I think I wanna feel ya, I just wanna thrill ya ♪ 1675 01:35:08,630 --> 01:35:11,110 ♪ Girl, gotta make you mine ♪ 1676 01:35:11,310 --> 01:35:14,490 He thought in order to make new money, generate new income, 1677 01:35:14,690 --> 01:35:18,020 you have to make new music, and to make another hit record. 1678 01:35:18,030 --> 01:35:21,080 I needed attention and money, and I... I needed to do songs. 1679 01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:23,700 Yeah. Are you gonna be recording again soon, or are you working... 1680 01:35:23,900 --> 01:35:25,820 - I'm gonna make some hit records. - Make some hit records. 1681 01:35:25,830 --> 01:35:27,330 Those... those are the kind to make, by the way. 1682 01:35:27,530 --> 01:35:28,250 Yeah. 1683 01:35:28,450 --> 01:35:31,550 Business-wise, it was a big mess. 1684 01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:33,550 Most of his royalties have been sold off. 1685 01:35:33,750 --> 01:35:35,755 And those old songs, he didn't even care about anymore. 1686 01:35:35,955 --> 01:35:37,760 They meant nothing to him. He never understood, 1687 01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:39,840 and I didn't understand until later, myself, 1688 01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,260 that those old songs could generate money today, 1689 01:35:42,460 --> 01:35:44,470 and they'd play on commercials, or in a movie, 1690 01:35:44,670 --> 01:35:46,680 or in a television show, and you can make money 1691 01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:48,560 using those songs. Not a clue. 1692 01:35:52,270 --> 01:35:54,150 Say what? 1693 01:35:54,350 --> 01:35:57,200 I can't hear you. I can't hear you. 1694 01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:00,425 The crazy way that Black music traditions are passed down, 1695 01:36:00,625 --> 01:36:03,650 is that very often, younger folks are gravitating 1696 01:36:03,850 --> 01:36:05,750 to the music of older artists, 1697 01:36:05,950 --> 01:36:10,040 and older artists are absolutely oblivious to the fact that it's occurring. 1698 01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:12,395 Sly and the Family Stone in the place to be, 1699 01:36:12,595 --> 01:36:14,550 the sixth annual Zulu Nation anniversary. 1700 01:36:14,750 --> 01:36:18,080 So, there's some irony to the fact that at the same time 1701 01:36:18,090 --> 01:36:20,890 Sly Stone is trying to reignite his career, 1702 01:36:21,090 --> 01:36:24,745 there are kids in the Bronx listening to hip-hop, making hip-hop, 1703 01:36:24,945 --> 01:36:28,600 digging deep in the crates in the archive of the music 1704 01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:30,720 that Sly had produced previously. 1705 01:36:34,140 --> 01:36:36,070 It was so easy for me to sample this. 1706 01:36:36,270 --> 01:36:38,950 Right side is the drums. 1707 01:36:39,150 --> 01:36:42,530 Just the fucking backbone of the whole joint, you know what I mean? 1708 01:36:42,730 --> 01:36:45,175 Sing a Simple Song was just the break of all breaks. 1709 01:36:45,375 --> 01:36:47,820 ♪ We did it, we did it, we did it ♪ 1710 01:36:50,410 --> 01:36:52,420 That drum pattern... 1711 01:36:52,620 --> 01:36:55,145 like that talk between the kick and the snare, 1712 01:36:55,345 --> 01:36:57,870 that pattern was a precursor to hip-hop. 1713 01:36:57,880 --> 01:36:58,760 Ba-dum. 1714 01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:00,890 For hip-hoppers, Sly set us all up 1715 01:37:01,090 --> 01:37:05,090 for what we were supposed to do for the next 40, 50 years, and today. 1716 01:37:05,290 --> 01:37:07,480 Sly, man, and Greg, man, it's like... 1717 01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:09,600 This shit's just stomping. 1718 01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,720 Like he putting foot on this motherfucker. 1719 01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:14,680 ♪ 1720 01:37:16,730 --> 01:37:19,450 ♪ Because I got it like that, whoo! ♪ 1721 01:37:19,650 --> 01:37:23,730 Hip-hop preserves Sly's music because DJs, crate diggers, 1722 01:37:23,930 --> 01:37:25,580 producers, they just hearing the grooves. 1723 01:37:25,780 --> 01:37:30,320 ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey ♪ 1724 01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:32,710 ♪ 1725 01:37:32,910 --> 01:37:35,380 - ♪ Riddle me this, my brother ♪ - ♪ Can you handle it? ♪ 1726 01:37:35,580 --> 01:37:38,760 Hip-hop generation, they're not connected to Sly's history. 1727 01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:42,040 They're not thinking about, "Oh, this is a man destroying himself." 1728 01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,775 They're thinking, "Oh, this is dope." 1729 01:37:44,975 --> 01:37:47,310 ♪ Ah-ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah-ah ♪ 1730 01:37:47,510 --> 01:37:50,680 ♪ Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years ♪ 1731 01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:53,915 ♪ I'm rocking my peers, putting suckers in fear, making the tears ♪ 1732 01:37:54,115 --> 01:37:57,632 It's a remarkable thing when a fragment of music resonates. 1733 01:37:57,832 --> 01:38:01,350 not as nostalgia, but maybe somebody will go back 1734 01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:03,910 and hear some of these tunes and go, "You know what? 1735 01:38:04,110 --> 01:38:08,400 "I... I've been waiting for somebody to... to say what that feeling is, 1736 01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,530 and this person has done it. This band has done it." 1737 01:38:18,460 --> 01:38:22,180 In the early '90s, Sly became reclusive. 1738 01:38:22,380 --> 01:38:25,430 He's given so much. He's invented an alphabet, 1739 01:38:25,630 --> 01:38:28,920 and other people have written books with his alphabet. 1740 01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:31,020 How much more can you expect him to do? 1741 01:38:31,220 --> 01:38:34,705 Maybe he was just embarrassed that he wasn't up to that kind of creativity. 1742 01:38:34,905 --> 01:38:38,390 And maybe if he can't be seen at his best or heard at his best, 1743 01:38:38,590 --> 01:38:40,440 he'd rather not be seen or heard at all. 1744 01:38:45,900 --> 01:38:47,330 The one thing I've always wanted to see, 1745 01:38:47,530 --> 01:38:49,870 like most people want to see the Beatles back together, 1746 01:38:50,070 --> 01:38:53,870 is to see Sly and the Family Stone just standing somewhere in the same room. 1747 01:38:59,460 --> 01:39:02,340 January 12th, 1993, Sly and the Family Stone 1748 01:39:02,540 --> 01:39:06,590 was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 1749 01:39:06,790 --> 01:39:10,840 Um, it... this is really, truly a great honor. 1750 01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:12,140 We all gave our little speeches. 1751 01:39:12,340 --> 01:39:16,010 I can't believe I'm seeing everybody after all these years and everything. 1752 01:39:16,210 --> 01:39:17,510 It was like a happy night. 1753 01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:21,350 We became a family, living up to the name. 1754 01:39:21,550 --> 01:39:22,900 But Sly wasn't there. 1755 01:39:23,100 --> 01:39:26,360 It was really sad that some of the group members 1756 01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:28,450 or band members could not be here tonight. 1757 01:39:28,650 --> 01:39:31,220 All day long we were sitting up there trying to figure out 1758 01:39:31,420 --> 01:39:33,990 whether Sly was coming to the show. Nobody saw him. 1759 01:39:34,190 --> 01:39:35,870 As usual, it's just us. 1760 01:39:36,870 --> 01:39:39,120 And then, he came out from under the curtain, 1761 01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:41,370 and everybody went crazy. 1762 01:39:43,580 --> 01:39:45,050 - Here he is. - You showed up! 1763 01:39:45,250 --> 01:39:46,840 Oh, it's this guy here. 1764 01:39:54,050 --> 01:39:56,455 ♪ Thank you falettinme ♪ 1765 01:39:56,655 --> 01:39:59,060 ♪ Be mice elf agin ♪ 1766 01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:02,980 Thank you. 1767 01:40:08,610 --> 01:40:11,430 I believe everything's been said, probably. 1768 01:40:11,630 --> 01:40:14,250 I don't want to forget anybody saying thanks, 1769 01:40:14,450 --> 01:40:19,240 and you know, and... so, uh, thank you all very much. 1770 01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:21,700 I love you personally very much, and, uh... 1771 01:40:22,830 --> 01:40:24,750 See you soon. 1772 01:40:28,630 --> 01:40:30,720 It was great. 1773 01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,550 You know, I remember him saying, "See you all soon." 1774 01:40:34,750 --> 01:40:36,590 Like, was his last comment. 1775 01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:40,560 And you know, he could have. 1776 01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:46,480 It could have happened, but it didn't. 1777 01:40:55,650 --> 01:40:57,700 For about... let's try it about 12 more times. 1778 01:40:57,900 --> 01:40:59,160 Stand!, take one. 1779 01:41:01,620 --> 01:41:06,080 So, I want to ask you, is there a burden on Black genius? 1780 01:41:07,420 --> 01:41:08,800 I think so. 1781 01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:13,300 I think the burden is that you do have to do it for everyone, 1782 01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:16,510 you know, and that your... everybody else's success 1783 01:41:16,710 --> 01:41:18,810 rides on your success, 1784 01:41:19,010 --> 01:41:22,470 and that's a lot of pressure to put on one's shoulders. 1785 01:41:22,670 --> 01:41:23,640 Um... 1786 01:41:26,230 --> 01:41:28,650 Heavy is the head that wears the crown, right? 1787 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:33,160 It's a burden and wings. 1788 01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:35,830 I think people have two fears when it comes to, like, 1789 01:41:36,030 --> 01:41:39,570 putting art out... art out into the world, or anyone who's ambitious. 1790 01:41:39,770 --> 01:41:41,540 A fear of failure and a fear of success. 1791 01:41:41,740 --> 01:41:45,500 And I think that the fear of success should be the greater fear. 1792 01:41:45,700 --> 01:41:48,160 When things come in between you and the work, 1793 01:41:48,170 --> 01:41:52,040 and they start becoming more prevalent than the work, 1794 01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:56,510 the burdens will mount, mount, become monster, 1795 01:41:56,710 --> 01:41:59,060 step on you, swallow you. 1796 01:41:59,260 --> 01:42:00,680 Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. 1797 01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:01,690 Who's playing the wrong notes? 1798 01:42:01,890 --> 01:42:03,850 I don't know which one of you guys are playing the wrong note, 1799 01:42:04,050 --> 01:42:05,320 but I know that one of you playing the wrong note. 1800 01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,940 - Let's try it again. - Rolling on take two. 1801 01:42:09,100 --> 01:42:12,030 Americans desire spectacle, 1802 01:42:12,230 --> 01:42:16,425 and Black artists are treated 1803 01:42:16,625 --> 01:42:20,620 as expendable, in this context. 1804 01:42:20,820 --> 01:42:23,740 We're just gonna eat you up and we don't care... 1805 01:42:24,990 --> 01:42:26,670 what happens to you. 1806 01:42:26,870 --> 01:42:29,330 We're just gonna consume what we need to consume from you, 1807 01:42:29,530 --> 01:42:31,880 and then we'll move on to consume somebody else. 1808 01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:33,790 Sing your song and get out of here. 1809 01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:36,140 Here's your $20. 1810 01:42:36,340 --> 01:42:38,890 And go. Go... Go home. 1811 01:42:39,090 --> 01:42:42,300 When will we ever be allowed to... to be vulnerable? 1812 01:42:42,500 --> 01:42:43,720 To be human? 1813 01:42:45,100 --> 01:42:48,980 The one question that confronts Black artists at whatever level, 1814 01:42:49,180 --> 01:42:50,560 is who do you think you are? 1815 01:42:51,730 --> 01:42:53,610 Who do you think you are? 1816 01:42:53,810 --> 01:42:55,360 What you think you doing? 1817 01:42:56,480 --> 01:42:59,540 We see the self-inflicted wounds of trauma 1818 01:42:59,740 --> 01:43:03,790 being played out on stage again and again. 1819 01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:07,460 The fact you are exceptionally gifted, talented, 1820 01:43:07,660 --> 01:43:10,660 you can sing a song and play multiple instruments, 1821 01:43:10,860 --> 01:43:12,260 none of that protects you. 1822 01:43:12,460 --> 01:43:15,735 What a burden for a human being to have to carry. 1823 01:43:15,935 --> 01:43:19,210 I... I just can't play it no more. 1824 01:43:19,220 --> 01:43:21,010 Let's try it again. Take three. 1825 01:43:22,300 --> 01:43:26,980 It is hard to see how much genius and beauty 1826 01:43:27,180 --> 01:43:30,680 can come out of a person, but they get sidetracked 1827 01:43:30,690 --> 01:43:32,860 from drugs or some other distraction, 1828 01:43:33,060 --> 01:43:36,690 and... and we're like, "No, it didn't have to go that way." 1829 01:43:37,530 --> 01:43:40,950 But it's also like our projection of what we want from a person 1830 01:43:41,150 --> 01:43:45,210 who's been turned into this thing that means so much to people. 1831 01:43:45,410 --> 01:43:48,450 I hate to say it, but these white rock-and-rollers, 1832 01:43:48,650 --> 01:43:50,210 motherfuckers go out in style. 1833 01:43:50,410 --> 01:43:53,250 They go out paid. They go out with their kids around 'em 1834 01:43:53,450 --> 01:43:54,930 like the fucking Godfather movie. 1835 01:43:55,130 --> 01:43:59,630 They died in their tomato garden with their grandson, laughing and shit. 1836 01:43:59,830 --> 01:44:02,420 Shit taken care of, generational wealth and shit 1837 01:44:02,430 --> 01:44:03,770 passed down to the children. 1838 01:44:03,970 --> 01:44:07,440 I mean, that's what we're supposed to be doing. 1839 01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:10,720 I don't have a lot of normal stories with my dad. 1840 01:44:10,730 --> 01:44:14,060 I know that he spent a lot of time under a tremendous amount of pressure. 1841 01:44:14,260 --> 01:44:17,810 A lot has been taken from him over the years. 1842 01:44:17,820 --> 01:44:21,440 But I've always felt like I know where his soul is coming from, 1843 01:44:21,640 --> 01:44:23,240 and I know where his heart is coming from. 1844 01:44:24,110 --> 01:44:26,620 Missing all that time with him, it was rough. 1845 01:44:26,820 --> 01:44:29,130 But we rekindled our relationship, 1846 01:44:29,330 --> 01:44:32,355 and when we seen each other, it was just like... 1847 01:44:32,555 --> 01:44:35,380 He cried, I cried, everybody around us was crying, 1848 01:44:35,580 --> 01:44:37,760 and we was hugging, and shaking, and all that, you know. 1849 01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:42,710 These last few years are the most normal times I've had with him. 1850 01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:46,245 It was a long journey, but he finally got clean and got off drugs. 1851 01:44:46,445 --> 01:44:49,770 For his birthday, I asked him what he wanted to eat, 1852 01:44:49,970 --> 01:44:53,270 and he requested a big pizza with, like, all of the toppings. 1853 01:44:53,470 --> 01:44:56,700 He's also a big fan of westerns and cars. 1854 01:44:56,900 --> 01:44:59,560 He's kind of just like a standard old Black man. 1855 01:45:02,740 --> 01:45:03,870 We want the best for him. 1856 01:45:04,070 --> 01:45:08,200 He's given more to us than we could ever give back to him. 1857 01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:12,710 We all have nothing but love for Sly. 1858 01:45:12,910 --> 01:45:17,540 Multiple generations of creators have been influenced by Sly Stone, 1859 01:45:17,740 --> 01:45:20,375 by his fearlessness, by his insouciance, 1860 01:45:20,575 --> 01:45:23,010 by his struggles with himself. 1861 01:45:23,210 --> 01:45:27,010 You can look at Sly as a cautionary tale, and I think that that's not it. 1862 01:45:27,210 --> 01:45:27,890 Sly... 1863 01:45:28,090 --> 01:45:29,020 - Pioneered. - Innovated. 1864 01:45:29,220 --> 01:45:30,205 - United. - Struggled. 1865 01:45:30,405 --> 01:45:31,712 - Inspired. - Survived. 1866 01:45:31,912 --> 01:45:33,220 - Transcends. - Lives. 1867 01:45:35,270 --> 01:45:37,070 That's a beautiful thing. 1868 01:45:37,270 --> 01:45:42,780 ♪ Stand, in the end, you'll still be you ♪ 1869 01:45:42,980 --> 01:45:47,680 ♪ One that's done all the things you set out to do ♪ 1870 01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:52,380 ♪ Stand, there's a cross for you to bear ♪ 1871 01:45:52,580 --> 01:45:57,670 ♪ Things to go through if you're going anywhere ♪ 1872 01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:02,880 Do you think that you were judged too harshly 1873 01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:04,840 because you were a trailblazer? 1874 01:46:07,130 --> 01:46:09,640 No. Not at all. 1875 01:46:11,140 --> 01:46:13,510 I think I... you deserve everything. 1876 01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:18,640 We deserve everything we get in this life. 1877 01:46:24,150 --> 01:46:27,070 ♪ 1878 01:46:56,180 --> 01:47:00,020 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1879 01:47:03,860 --> 01:47:09,200 ♪ Sometimes I cry ♪ 1880 01:47:10,780 --> 01:47:14,410 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1881 01:47:18,790 --> 01:47:24,630 ♪ I can feel it when you lie to me ♪ 1882 01:47:26,090 --> 01:47:30,590 - ♪ Hey ♪ - ♪ Ooh ♪ 1883 01:47:32,890 --> 01:47:37,180 - ♪ Hey ♪ - ♪ Ooh, yeah ♪ 1884 01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:41,020 ♪ Ooh-ah-hee ♪ 1885 01:47:43,020 --> 01:47:44,730 ♪ Oh ♪ 1886 01:47:44,930 --> 01:47:47,110 ♪ 1887 01:48:00,410 --> 01:48:02,910 ♪ Hee-hee ♪ 1888 01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:05,830 ♪ Hee-yeah ♪ 1889 01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:06,890 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1890 01:48:07,090 --> 01:48:12,510 ♪ Hee-yeah, oh yeah ♪ 1891 01:48:12,710 --> 01:48:15,050 ♪ 1892 01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:20,270 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1893 01:48:24,940 --> 01:48:28,900 ♪ Everything is new ♪ 1894 01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:31,030 ♪ New ♪ 1895 01:48:31,530 --> 01:48:35,320 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1896 01:48:39,540 --> 01:48:42,830 ♪ Come to find out I'm a whole lot like ♪ 1897 01:48:43,030 --> 01:48:46,960 ♪ You, too ♪ 1898 01:48:47,330 --> 01:48:49,960 ♪ Baby ♪ 1899 01:48:53,590 --> 01:48:57,340 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1900 01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:02,930 ♪ See the babies growin' ♪ 1901 01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:08,100 ♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh ♪ 1902 01:49:08,110 --> 01:49:11,690 ♪ Just like a baby ♪ 1903 01:49:43,310 --> 01:49:46,315 ♪ Ah, ah, oh yeah ♪ 1904 01:49:46,515 --> 01:49:49,520 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 1905 01:49:51,020 --> 01:49:53,120 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 1906 01:49:53,320 --> 01:49:56,700 ♪ Ah, well ♪ 1907 01:49:57,030 --> 01:50:00,280 ♪ 164176

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