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1
00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:06,501
Block the cars.
2
00:01:07,268 --> 00:01:09,404
Cars, please.
3
00:01:10,104 --> 00:01:13,741
Same as before.
Block only Avenue Hoche.
4
00:01:14,208 --> 00:01:15,910
Allow traffic
on rue de Courcelles.
5
00:01:16,077 --> 00:01:19,447
Block pedestrians
6
00:01:19,614 --> 00:01:21,049
on Avenue Hoche.
7
00:01:21,683 --> 00:01:23,084
Straight ahead like that.
8
00:01:24,919 --> 00:01:26,921
Yes, like that. Careful!
9
00:01:27,355 --> 00:01:29,524
Too close, buddy!
10
00:01:29,691 --> 00:01:31,859
Come forward a tiny bit.
11
00:01:32,293 --> 00:01:34,195
Come forward...
12
00:01:34,529 --> 00:01:36,264
two inches.
13
00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:41,603
Stop! No, too much!
14
00:01:43,271 --> 00:01:45,940
A little more. Okay, good!
Stay there.
15
00:01:46,107 --> 00:01:47,609
Let's do it.
16
00:01:47,775 --> 00:01:49,544
Places, everyone.
17
00:01:51,646 --> 00:01:52,914
Camera!
18
00:01:56,818 --> 00:01:57,685
Action!
19
00:02:09,030 --> 00:02:10,932
Back in position.
Let's do it again.
20
00:02:12,266 --> 00:02:14,802
Reposition the car quickly.
- That take was shorter.
21
00:02:14,969 --> 00:02:19,240
Philippe, if we linger
too long, it drags.
22
00:02:19,407 --> 00:02:23,945
Melville and I had our disaster.
We were supposed to do a film five years ago.
23
00:02:24,112 --> 00:02:27,348
We did screen tests,
hair and makeup,
24
00:02:27,515 --> 00:02:31,386
but it didn't work out
for reasons I'd rather not discuss,
25
00:02:31,552 --> 00:02:34,622
and so we weren't
on good terms for five years.
26
00:02:34,789 --> 00:02:41,629
But like all decent people
who've had a falling out,
27
00:02:41,796 --> 00:02:43,831
now everything's roses
28
00:02:43,998 --> 00:02:47,735
because we're working together,
and we even laugh about it.
29
00:02:47,902 --> 00:02:51,139
“That was the time
when I talked ill of you.”
30
00:02:51,305 --> 00:02:55,443
“And I did the same of you.”
31
00:02:55,610 --> 00:02:59,614
Now it's all laughter
and friendship.
32
00:02:59,781 --> 00:03:02,717
What I'd like to talk about,
33
00:03:02,884 --> 00:03:06,888
because this is the first time
I've worked with him,
34
00:03:07,055 --> 00:03:12,427
is that he amazes me
because he's still a craftsman
35
00:03:14,028 --> 00:03:17,699
even in the middle
of this “big deal.”
36
00:03:17,865 --> 00:03:22,403
A film set in 1943 with lots
of characters - that's a big deal.
37
00:03:22,570 --> 00:03:24,639
And he's still the craftsman.
38
00:03:24,806 --> 00:03:28,509
His studio on rue Jenner burned down,
so he's shooting at the Boulogne studios,
39
00:03:28,676 --> 00:03:31,212
which are much more luxurious,
40
00:03:31,379 --> 00:03:35,717
but his way of working
remains the same.
41
00:05:40,641 --> 00:05:46,214
Audiences know Jean-Pierre Melville
as the director of films like
42
00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:49,750
Le silence de la mer,
Le doulos, Le samourai.
43
00:05:50,818 --> 00:05:57,558
Before listening to a little jazz,
one of your favorite pastimes,
44
00:05:57,725 --> 00:06:03,798
we saw a piece on your new film,
Army of Shadows,
45
00:06:03,965 --> 00:06:05,967
which you are currently editing.
46
00:06:06,133 --> 00:06:11,606
Why make Army of Shadows?
And is it just a film for you?
47
00:06:11,772 --> 00:06:16,777
No, it's a nostalgic reverie
about the past.
48
00:06:17,845 --> 00:06:19,614
As Courteline said,
49
00:06:19,780 --> 00:06:23,584
“Unhappy memories! Yet I welcome you.
You are my long-lost youth.”
50
00:06:23,751 --> 00:06:29,757
As we grow older, we realize
that what should be unhappy memories,
51
00:06:29,924 --> 00:06:34,295
the unhappy memories
of 1940-1944,
52
00:06:34,462 --> 00:06:43,404
are now a period we relive
in our dreams with nostalgia.
53
00:06:44,472 --> 00:06:49,911
Because we think, “I survived.
It was a disaster and I was spared.”
54
00:06:50,077 --> 00:06:53,314
People who survive a plane crash
don't regret making the trip.
55
00:06:53,481 --> 00:06:55,416
It's not that.
56
00:06:55,583 --> 00:06:57,685
I think if I'd died...
57
00:06:59,387 --> 00:07:04,926
and I had a twin brother
who thought the way I did at the time,
58
00:07:05,092 --> 00:07:07,328
he'd wouldn't be sorry either.
59
00:07:07,495 --> 00:07:11,832
It was a fantastic time,
one that had to be experienced.
60
00:07:11,999 --> 00:07:15,403
I'm glad I was
22 years old in 1939.
61
00:07:15,569 --> 00:07:18,439
I consider it a blessing.
62
00:07:18,606 --> 00:07:21,943
Were you in Paris the day the Germans
paraded on the Champs-Elysées?
63
00:07:22,109 --> 00:07:24,545
No. I was never in Paris
during the Occupation.
64
00:07:24,712 --> 00:07:28,316
Your film opens
with German troops on parade.
65
00:07:28,482 --> 00:07:32,320
Was that historical footage
or a reenactment?
66
00:07:32,486 --> 00:07:34,622
It was a reenactment.
67
00:07:34,789 --> 00:07:38,926
Everyone on the set
was anxious about it.
68
00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:41,395
No one thought it'd be possible.
69
00:07:41,562 --> 00:07:46,334
At 4:00 a.m., directing
night rehearsals on Avenue d'léna,
70
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:50,171
even I thought, “lt's okay now. It's dark.
No one knows what's going on.
71
00:07:50,338 --> 00:07:55,409
But later, by the Arc de Triomphe, and
on the empty Place Charles de Gaulle,
72
00:07:55,576 --> 00:08:00,014
will it be possible?”
And it was.
73
00:08:00,181 --> 00:08:02,583
You had the Champs-Elysées
and Arc de Triomphe to yourself,
74
00:08:02,750 --> 00:08:05,019
with police protection
so you wouldn't be disturbed.
75
00:08:05,186 --> 00:08:08,589
That was quite a luxury.
- Yes, it was.
76
00:08:09,457 --> 00:08:14,762
Speaking of luxury, your films
up to now haven't cost much,
77
00:08:14,929 --> 00:08:16,998
though producers always
think films are too expensive.
78
00:08:17,164 --> 00:08:22,003
But, as Simone Signoret
put it so well,
79
00:08:22,169 --> 00:08:26,073
you're a craftsman,
even when working on “a big deal.”
80
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:32,480
For the first time, you've got
a big budget, around a billion francs.
81
00:08:32,646 --> 00:08:33,914
Yes, 900 million.
82
00:08:34,081 --> 00:08:37,451
Almost enough for a short version
of an action film like The Brain!
83
00:08:37,618 --> 00:08:40,988
What was it like
having all that money?
84
00:08:41,155 --> 00:08:43,391
I didn't even notice.
85
00:08:43,557 --> 00:08:45,793
It doesn't bother me
because I don't realize it.
86
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,130
I make films
the same way I always have.
87
00:08:49,296 --> 00:08:53,934
It's true that the concept
requires a large budget.
88
00:08:54,101 --> 00:08:57,438
I knew that
before writing the script
89
00:08:57,605 --> 00:08:59,640
based on Joseph Kessel's book.
90
00:08:59,807 --> 00:09:03,978
But I don't feel constrained
because of the film's cost.
91
00:09:04,145 --> 00:09:07,882
I work exactly as if I were
in my little studio on rue Jenner,
92
00:09:08,049 --> 00:09:09,984
the same way
I made my previous films.
93
00:09:10,151 --> 00:09:15,523
That's something that will always
make your enemies green with envy:
94
00:09:15,689 --> 00:09:19,393
You'll always be penniless
but still live like a millionaire.
95
00:09:20,327 --> 00:09:21,829
Just about.
96
00:09:22,396 --> 00:09:28,636
This film has a star-studded cast.
Can you refresh our memory?
97
00:09:28,803 --> 00:09:30,004
Of course.
98
00:09:30,171 --> 00:09:33,607
Paul Meurisse, Simone Signoret,
Lino Ventura, Jean-Pierre Cassel,
99
00:09:33,774 --> 00:09:39,914
Paul Crauchet, Christian Barbier,
Claude Mann, Serge Reggiani, etc.
100
00:09:40,081 --> 00:09:44,618
I believe some of them
are waiting now.
101
00:09:48,122 --> 00:09:52,526
Gentlemen, you are
Jean-Pierre Melville's guests,
102
00:09:52,693 --> 00:09:56,931
but you're still allowed to say
what you think of him.
103
00:09:57,098 --> 00:09:59,166
Jean-Pierre Cassel,
104
00:09:59,333 --> 00:10:00,801
Paul Meurisse,
105
00:10:01,402 --> 00:10:03,003
Paul Crauchet.
106
00:10:03,437 --> 00:10:07,808
Paul Meurisse, what do you really think
of Jean-Pierre Melville?
107
00:10:08,976 --> 00:10:16,784
It seems silly for me to talk
about Jean-Pierre Melville
108
00:10:16,951 --> 00:10:19,720
when he does it so well himself.
109
00:10:21,388 --> 00:10:29,897
It's difficult to talk
about someone who's a friend,
110
00:10:30,064 --> 00:10:34,768
because it's a delicate matter.
111
00:10:34,935 --> 00:10:40,608
I'd rather talk about him
simply as a director,
112
00:10:40,774 --> 00:10:46,280
and the relationship
between an actor and a director,
113
00:10:46,447 --> 00:10:49,550
which can sometimes
be difficult.
114
00:10:49,717 --> 00:10:53,521
It isn't because we're friends.
115
00:10:53,687 --> 00:10:57,057
It's simply because
he likes actors
116
00:10:57,224 --> 00:11:04,398
with whom the actor-director
relationship is a good one.
117
00:11:05,499 --> 00:11:12,273
It's very important for a director
to appreciate actors.
118
00:11:13,474 --> 00:11:16,777
He doesn't have to love them -
even though Melville does -
119
00:11:16,944 --> 00:11:20,681
but he can't have
contempt for them.
120
00:11:20,848 --> 00:11:25,619
I think he's one of the few directors
who doesn't treat actors with contempt,
121
00:11:25,786 --> 00:11:30,090
because he doesn't envy them.
122
00:11:30,257 --> 00:11:32,927
That's a nice pat on the back,
Paul Meurisse.
123
00:11:33,394 --> 00:11:35,129
It's the simple truth.
124
00:11:35,296 --> 00:11:36,830
Jean-Pierre Cassel?
125
00:11:36,997 --> 00:11:39,233
Paul betrayed us!
We had a little plot:
126
00:11:40,201 --> 00:11:43,470
“Melville's not here.
Let's say nasty things about him!”
127
00:11:43,637 --> 00:11:48,309
But he was here just before us,
128
00:11:48,475 --> 00:11:51,345
and it doesn't feel right now,
even as a joke.
129
00:11:51,512 --> 00:11:55,683
It's true. He's a real pleasure
to work with.
130
00:11:55,849 --> 00:11:57,084
Paul Crauchet?
131
00:11:57,251 --> 00:12:01,455
It's difficult to speak
after such brilliant colleagues!
132
00:12:02,223 --> 00:12:07,261
I'm touched by things
that are difficult to talk about in public,
133
00:12:07,428 --> 00:12:13,100
which have to do
with sensibility.
134
00:12:13,267 --> 00:12:19,406
When working with Melville,
we work with very sensitive emotions,
135
00:12:19,573 --> 00:12:25,713
something that's increasingly
denied to actors of my generation...
136
00:12:27,481 --> 00:12:30,818
who get caught up in -
How can I put it?
137
00:12:30,985 --> 00:12:34,288
Overintellectualizing.
138
00:12:37,258 --> 00:12:41,996
Professionally,
as well as on a personal level,
139
00:12:42,162 --> 00:12:47,901
I'm deeply touched
by how deeply connected he is
140
00:12:48,068 --> 00:12:53,474
to those around him.
141
00:12:53,641 --> 00:12:55,442
Great introduction.
142
00:12:55,609 --> 00:12:58,279
I think Mr. Melville
can join us now.
143
00:12:59,179 --> 00:13:02,816
I'd like to reply to Paul Meurisse,
who lied as usual.
144
00:13:02,983 --> 00:13:05,252
He said
I wasn't envious of actors.
145
00:13:05,419 --> 00:13:09,590
You don't know me very well.
I'm extremely envious of you.
146
00:13:09,757 --> 00:13:12,726
My greatest regret
is that I wasn't an actor.
147
00:13:12,893 --> 00:13:19,566
What I meant was
148
00:13:19,733 --> 00:13:23,671
that when you're on the set,
you're always acting.
149
00:13:23,837 --> 00:13:25,439
That's true.
150
00:13:25,606 --> 00:13:30,444
Everyone's acting.
We're acting right now.
151
00:13:30,611 --> 00:13:35,916
I'm playing the role of your guest
on this show.
152
00:13:37,251 --> 00:13:41,655
You're playing the host, right?
153
00:13:41,822 --> 00:13:44,491
So everyone's playing a role,
154
00:13:44,658 --> 00:13:46,660
some better than others.
155
00:13:46,827 --> 00:13:53,767
In my opinion, the others
aren't as good as me.
156
00:13:57,905 --> 00:14:01,608
We're laughing and smiling.
We won't comment on that.
157
00:14:01,775 --> 00:14:04,111
Jean-Pierre Melville,
did you hear
158
00:14:04,278 --> 00:14:07,314
what these men said about you?
159
00:14:07,481 --> 00:14:11,352
- Certainly.
- Were you touched by their kindness?
160
00:14:11,518 --> 00:14:13,153
Absolutely.
161
00:14:14,188 --> 00:14:18,158
I've very glad Paul Crauchet
said what he did,
162
00:14:19,059 --> 00:14:22,129
because it's possible to be curt
with people on a set
163
00:14:22,296 --> 00:14:25,466
and have little contact with them.
164
00:14:25,632 --> 00:14:29,770
Actually, on the set of the film
I'm shooting now,
165
00:14:29,937 --> 00:14:35,309
I don't have a close relationship
with one actor, whom I won't name,
166
00:14:36,176 --> 00:14:38,178
and it's unpleasant.
167
00:14:38,345 --> 00:14:41,949
The end result is still the same,
168
00:14:42,116 --> 00:14:46,120
but it's annoying and pointless.
169
00:14:46,286 --> 00:14:52,359
It's much nicer being friends
with Paul Crauchet and Cassel,
170
00:14:52,526 --> 00:14:56,597
and at least trying to be friends
with Paul Meurisse.
171
00:14:58,232 --> 00:15:02,803
Do you ever accept actors' suggestions
for their performance?
172
00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:05,305
Certainly.
173
00:15:05,472 --> 00:15:09,443
When you're directing actors,
you must use their input.
174
00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:16,250
You can't impose a totally
subjective vision on an actor,
175
00:15:16,417 --> 00:15:19,987
one that may be wrong for him.
176
00:15:20,154 --> 00:15:25,492
You can't direct an actor
if he doesn't meet you halfway.
177
00:15:25,659 --> 00:15:29,430
Some actors -
the very bad ones -
178
00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:33,734
need you to do
all the work for them.
179
00:15:33,901 --> 00:15:36,403
But those are very bad actors.
180
00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:39,907
Do actors sometimes overact?
181
00:15:40,073 --> 00:15:44,778
Not in my films.
It's not something they tend to do.
182
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,182
So Army of Shadows will be good?
183
00:15:48,348 --> 00:15:50,584
I haven't the slightest idea.
184
00:15:51,051 --> 00:15:55,622
I hope so, but I'm not quite sure
how it will come out.
185
00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:58,192
There were some difficult scenes.
186
00:15:58,358 --> 00:16:01,462
I remember one night
when Cassel, Crauchet and I
187
00:16:01,628 --> 00:16:04,665
were completely exhausted.
188
00:16:04,832 --> 00:16:10,504
I was determined to shoot
in a certain location
189
00:16:10,671 --> 00:16:12,840
because it reminded me
190
00:16:13,006 --> 00:16:14,775
of Joseph Kessel.
191
00:16:14,942 --> 00:16:17,578
It was at a bar called
Le Cintra in Marseilles,
192
00:16:17,744 --> 00:16:22,349
where I'd seen Joseph Kessel
one day, sad and distraught,
193
00:16:22,516 --> 00:16:25,452
just before he left for England.
194
00:16:25,619 --> 00:16:29,556
I wanted to shoot in Le Cintra
right where I'd seen Joseph Kessel.
195
00:16:29,723 --> 00:16:37,764
Naturally, one of the first men
I wanted to see upon arriving in England
196
00:16:37,931 --> 00:16:40,467
was General de Gaulle.
197
00:16:40,634 --> 00:16:45,906
He received me very warmly.
198
00:16:46,073 --> 00:16:49,142
He asked me what I wanted to do.
199
00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:50,978
I told him...
200
00:16:53,447 --> 00:16:57,217
I'd like to work for one
of the various services,
201
00:16:57,384 --> 00:17:02,256
and he raised the objections
I mentioned earlier.
202
00:17:02,422 --> 00:17:08,462
He said, “What you should do, since
you were involved with the Resistance,
203
00:17:08,629 --> 00:17:15,402
the true strength of the French nation,
is write a book about it.”
204
00:17:16,203 --> 00:17:20,374
I left...
205
00:17:24,545 --> 00:17:27,648
quite opposed to the idea,
206
00:17:27,814 --> 00:17:31,518
because writing about people
who are fighting
207
00:17:31,685 --> 00:17:34,454
while you yourself are in relative safety
208
00:17:34,621 --> 00:17:40,327
is always, I think, a sensitive matter.
209
00:17:40,494 --> 00:17:46,033
But after a few weeks,
210
00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:48,502
I realized I was completely useless
211
00:17:48,669 --> 00:17:51,138
from a military standpoint.
212
00:17:51,305 --> 00:17:57,044
I'd been placed in the air force
at a desk job.
213
00:17:57,210 --> 00:18:00,347
I didn't have much to do.
214
00:18:01,148 --> 00:18:06,520
When I started spending time
with the French in London,
215
00:18:06,687 --> 00:18:10,891
especially those involved
in the Resistance,
216
00:18:11,058 --> 00:18:14,928
I realized that perhaps
the best thing I could do
217
00:18:15,095 --> 00:18:19,066
was to write about
what was happening in France.
218
00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:24,004
Honestly, I'd never been so afraid
219
00:18:24,171 --> 00:18:27,240
of starting a book,
220
00:18:28,508 --> 00:18:32,679
precisely because of the feelings
221
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,083
I just mentioned.
222
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,991
In retrospect, I see no one
makes literature out of it,
223
00:18:44,157 --> 00:18:48,929
but I really tried to steer clear
of any literary tone.
224
00:18:49,096 --> 00:18:53,166
Resistance movements
exist throughout the world,
225
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:57,337
but the French Resistance
was the one I knew.
226
00:18:57,504 --> 00:19:03,510
It was my country,
and it seemed sacred to me.
227
00:19:03,677 --> 00:19:07,848
Normally, we're forced to go to war.
228
00:19:08,015 --> 00:19:10,584
Even if we go willingly,
229
00:19:10,751 --> 00:19:14,454
we're supported by an entire country,
230
00:19:14,621 --> 00:19:16,857
by popular enthusiasm,
231
00:19:17,024 --> 00:19:20,761
and the whole framework of an army.
232
00:19:20,927 --> 00:19:26,933
But in this case, all the Resistance fighters
had to choose for themselves,
233
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:29,836
and it was a difficult choice to make.
234
00:19:30,003 --> 00:19:32,706
You had to renounce
your personal safety,
235
00:19:32,873 --> 00:19:38,879
and also that of your family,
renounce everything in life,
236
00:19:39,046 --> 00:19:41,148
everything that makes life worth living.
237
00:19:44,885 --> 00:19:48,789
In approaching these people
to describe them,
238
00:19:48,955 --> 00:19:53,960
I really had qualms about it,
which is normal,
239
00:19:54,127 --> 00:19:57,497
but it held me back for a long time.
240
00:19:58,265 --> 00:20:03,070
But then I began meeting people
like Colonel Remy.
241
00:20:03,236 --> 00:20:07,074
I saw Emmanuel D'Astier again,
when he took the terrible risk
242
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,343
of traveling
between England and France.
243
00:20:10,510 --> 00:20:12,446
I met Colonel Rémy,
244
00:20:12,612 --> 00:20:15,515
Médéric, and Brossolette.
245
00:20:16,450 --> 00:20:20,854
Gradually, through hearing their stories
246
00:20:21,021 --> 00:20:26,126
and through my access
to the documents of the BCRA...
247
00:20:27,728 --> 00:20:33,567
I slowly fell under the spell...
248
00:20:37,204 --> 00:20:44,111
of the secrecy, the networks,
the Resistance groups.
249
00:20:44,277 --> 00:20:49,816
From this arose
the desire and the urgency,
250
00:20:49,983 --> 00:20:53,620
which I believe is
absolutely necessary for a writer
251
00:20:53,787 --> 00:20:57,524
if he wants to write something worthwhile.
252
00:20:59,860 --> 00:21:03,597
In Army of Shadows,
there's another character -
253
00:21:03,764 --> 00:21:07,768
I can't say “actor,”
although he plays a very special role.
254
00:21:07,934 --> 00:21:11,872
It's Mr. Andre' Dewavrin,
255
00:21:12,038 --> 00:21:15,575
who became famous
under the name of “Colonel Passy”
256
00:21:15,742 --> 00:21:19,946
and who had a very important role
in the Resistance
257
00:21:20,113 --> 00:21:23,483
on which the book is based.
258
00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:27,554
Jean-Pierre, I believe
you're not the only one who is touched
259
00:21:27,721 --> 00:21:31,424
that he accepted
to join us tonight.
260
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,361
Colonel Passy, Mr. Dewavrin,
261
00:21:34,528 --> 00:21:41,034
you agreed to play yourself
in Jean-Pierre Melville's film.
262
00:21:41,201 --> 00:21:44,404
I can easily imagine
how it came about,
263
00:21:44,571 --> 00:21:47,941
because I know Jean-Pierre
could talk the Eiffel Tower
264
00:21:48,108 --> 00:21:51,044
into standing in
for the Arc de Triomphe,
265
00:21:51,211 --> 00:21:53,346
but please tell us
how you agreed
266
00:21:53,513 --> 00:21:55,916
to become an actor
267
00:21:56,082 --> 00:21:59,953
for what I assure you
is a very good cause.
268
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:03,590
In reality,
I fell right into his trap.
269
00:22:03,757 --> 00:22:08,595
We'd met one day
and he'd asked me
270
00:22:08,762 --> 00:22:11,298
to have a look
at the set design,
271
00:22:11,464 --> 00:22:17,504
because he wanted my London office
to be as authentic as possible.
272
00:22:17,671 --> 00:22:24,177
His assistant called one morning
to ask me to come see the set
273
00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:26,446
to make sure it was authentic.
274
00:22:26,613 --> 00:22:30,650
We agreed to meet at 5:00 p.m.,
and when I arrived at the Boulogne studios,
275
00:22:30,817 --> 00:22:34,855
Mr. Melville showed me the set.
276
00:22:35,021 --> 00:22:38,725
I pointed out some things to correct,
and we left the set.
277
00:22:38,892 --> 00:22:43,797
Then he said, “I have a favor to ask.
I hope you'll agree.
278
00:22:43,964 --> 00:22:48,802
I'd like you to play yourself
in Army of Shadows. ”
279
00:22:48,969 --> 00:22:51,271
First, Jean-Pierre is a friend,
280
00:22:51,438 --> 00:22:57,277
and secondly, I was glad
he was making a film of Kessel's book,
281
00:22:57,444 --> 00:23:00,113
a mutual friend of ours,
so I agreed.
282
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,150
That's how I made my acting debut,
which I hope won't be too bad.
283
00:23:04,317 --> 00:23:06,353
Did you change your lines at all?
284
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:09,422
Yes. When I got the script,
285
00:23:09,589 --> 00:23:12,659
I had dialogue,
286
00:23:12,826 --> 00:23:15,095
or rather, the character
I was playing had dialogue
287
00:23:15,262 --> 00:23:19,466
that didn't match what I'd have said
in London at that time.
288
00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:24,237
I said I'd like to change the lines.
He said, “Do as you like.”
289
00:23:24,404 --> 00:23:29,743
I ended up with lines in French and English
quite similar to what I'd have said.
290
00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:33,313
I should mention, Mr. Dewavrin,
that you're a tough audience.
291
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,717
When Hollywood movies
try to recreate France,
292
00:23:37,884 --> 00:23:40,854
we say, “Hey, Gauloises cigarettes
didn't cost that much that year.”
293
00:23:41,021 --> 00:23:44,257
It's the same for you.
We were talking the other day -
294
00:23:44,424 --> 00:23:47,727
and Jean-Pierre will kill me
for bringing this up -
295
00:23:47,894 --> 00:23:53,300
about using cyanide to commit
suicide if captured by the Germans.
296
00:23:53,466 --> 00:23:58,571
You said, “No, we didn't use cyanide
in 1943,” and you explained why.
297
00:23:58,738 --> 00:24:04,844
We used cyanide in the beginning,
until around 1942,
298
00:24:05,011 --> 00:24:07,847
at which point we realized
299
00:24:08,014 --> 00:24:14,120
that people who had to use it
suffered terribly.
300
00:24:14,287 --> 00:24:19,225
It was much slower than we thought,
and horribly painful.
301
00:24:19,392 --> 00:24:24,197
Plus, if they were treated quickly,
it might not even be lethal.
302
00:24:24,364 --> 00:24:28,401
Therefore, the English found
a much more virulent poison,
303
00:24:28,568 --> 00:24:32,939
a pill small enough to be hidden
in the mounting of a ring.
304
00:24:33,106 --> 00:24:36,743
It killed instantly.
You dropped dead in two seconds.
305
00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:40,413
I was able to experience
its strength firsthand,
306
00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:46,386
not by taking it but by transporting it
in my ring when I came to France.
307
00:24:46,553 --> 00:24:51,691
I just rubbed my eyes
after washing my hands,
308
00:24:51,858 --> 00:24:56,062
and my eyes swelled up
like a frog's within three minutes.
309
00:24:56,796 --> 00:25:00,400
How long
have you known each other?
310
00:25:00,567 --> 00:25:07,173
I met Colonel Passy at the home
of our mutual friend Paul Meurisse.
311
00:25:08,208 --> 00:25:11,878
I'll never forget:
The colonel sat on the floor.
312
00:25:12,045 --> 00:25:14,047
There were little tables,
313
00:25:14,214 --> 00:25:19,719
and I was sitting
with some film people like Verneuil.
314
00:25:19,886 --> 00:25:21,654
And you sat on the floor.
315
00:25:21,821 --> 00:25:24,958
- What year was that?
- Five or six years ago.
316
00:25:25,492 --> 00:25:31,731
You went to London in 1943,
while Colonel Passy was there.
317
00:25:32,399 --> 00:25:37,303
What did Colonel Passy represent
for you before you met him?
318
00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:40,907
In 1942-43,
Colonel Passy was already
319
00:25:41,074 --> 00:25:44,110
a living legend in France.
320
00:25:44,277 --> 00:25:47,547
When my companions-in-arms arrived,
parachuting into England -
321
00:25:47,714 --> 00:25:53,453
one was named Riblet,
and another was Philippe Vallin -
322
00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:57,490
they all asked the same question:
“What does Colonel Passy look like?”
323
00:25:57,657 --> 00:25:59,592
There were no pictures of him.
324
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:02,162
That's not something
to leave lying around!
325
00:26:02,328 --> 00:26:05,231
We'd seen pictures of General de Gaulle,
but not Colonel Passy.
326
00:26:05,398 --> 00:26:10,637
People said, “He's handsome,
young, blond, blue-eyed, etc.”
327
00:26:10,804 --> 00:26:15,341
And that's how we formed
an idea of what he was like.
328
00:26:15,508 --> 00:26:20,447
- He was a real person.
- But I didn't know him then.
329
00:26:20,613 --> 00:26:25,919
I did know his lieutenant
very well, Pierre Brossolette.
330
00:26:26,086 --> 00:26:29,923
He was your liaison.
331
00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:32,158
On August 11, 1943,
332
00:26:32,325 --> 00:26:35,061
I spent the entire day
in London with Pierre Brossolette.
333
00:26:35,228 --> 00:26:43,136
We walked from the Duke Street
offices of the BCRA
334
00:26:43,303 --> 00:26:45,105
all the way to Victoria Station,
335
00:26:45,271 --> 00:26:48,608
where he took a train
to catch the ship to Algiers.
336
00:26:48,775 --> 00:26:50,143
Besides Colonel Passy,
337
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:53,646
Pierre Brossolette was the only man
who knew everything
338
00:26:53,813 --> 00:26:56,149
about the Resistance network.
339
00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:58,084
I'd like to say something
about that.
340
00:26:58,251 --> 00:27:03,823
When I met Colonel Passy, I asked,
“Don't you think Mission Arquebuse,
341
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:09,329
which you and Brossolette carried out,
was a big risk for the Resistance?
342
00:27:09,496 --> 00:27:15,235
The only two men who knew
everything about the Resistance
343
00:27:15,401 --> 00:27:18,605
parachuted into France together
and stayed together.
344
00:27:18,771 --> 00:27:21,207
You moved through Paris,
345
00:27:21,374 --> 00:27:26,012
meeting contacts
who were dependable, of course.
346
00:27:26,179 --> 00:27:29,682
They weren't traitors,
but still, someone might have talked.
347
00:27:29,849 --> 00:27:32,185
What if you'd both been arrested?”
348
00:27:32,352 --> 00:27:37,123
Colonel Passy immediately replied,
“Brossolette was arrested.
349
00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:40,326
As far as I know,
he didn't talk.”
350
00:27:40,493 --> 00:27:44,564
I realized I didn't have to ask
Colonel Passy if he'd have talked,
351
00:27:44,731 --> 00:27:48,034
because it was obvious
he wouldn't have.
352
00:27:48,201 --> 00:27:52,071
Pierre Brossolette's memory is,
of course, deeply honored,
353
00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:55,542
especially here among us.
354
00:27:55,708 --> 00:27:58,578
I'd like to ask Colonel Passy:
355
00:27:58,745 --> 00:28:02,515
If such a virulent poison existed,
why didn't Brossolette use it?
356
00:28:02,682 --> 00:28:06,886
Why did he choose
an even more horrible death?
357
00:28:07,053 --> 00:28:10,623
That was a subject Brossolette and I
often discussed back then.
358
00:28:10,790 --> 00:28:13,226
Despite what Jean-Pierre said,
359
00:28:13,393 --> 00:28:17,497
I'd never have dared go on a mission
in France without loads of poison.
360
00:28:17,664 --> 00:28:22,268
I had poison in my ring, my tie,
my pocket, everywhere.
361
00:28:22,435 --> 00:28:27,073
However, Brossolette believed,
because he'd been arrested before,
362
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,510
that there was always a way out,
363
00:28:30,677 --> 00:28:34,914
and if you had poison at hand,
you'd be tempted to use it too soon.
364
00:28:35,081 --> 00:28:38,685
That's why he absolutely
refused to carry poison.
365
00:28:38,851 --> 00:28:44,891
When he was arrested,
and recognized, quite by accident,
366
00:28:45,058 --> 00:28:48,561
two days later he was forced,
probably to avoid talking,
367
00:28:48,728 --> 00:28:50,897
to throw himself
out a fifth-story window.
368
00:28:51,064 --> 00:28:55,935
I'd like to know how you manage
to lead a normal life
369
00:28:56,102 --> 00:28:58,171
with everything
you've experienced -
370
00:28:58,338 --> 00:29:02,942
all the great, tragic, beautiful,
and horrible memories.
371
00:29:03,109 --> 00:29:08,381
I've blocked out a lot of those memories,
and I try to keep it that way.
372
00:29:08,548 --> 00:29:13,253
I don't like going to war veteran's
meetings and things like that.
373
00:29:13,419 --> 00:29:17,523
Usually, I try not to talk about it.
It was an extremely dramatic period.
374
00:29:17,690 --> 00:29:21,527
Some of my best friends were killed,
Brossolette and many others.
375
00:29:21,694 --> 00:29:26,432
Half of the BCRA's operatives
died in combat,
376
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:30,737
so it's not something
I enjoy remembering.
377
00:29:31,304 --> 00:29:35,575
How do I live with that? I try to forget.
I discuss it as little as possible.
378
00:29:35,742 --> 00:29:38,344
And when I must discuss it,
379
00:29:38,511 --> 00:29:40,680
I use as much humor as I can,
380
00:29:40,847 --> 00:29:45,051
because after all,
without humor, we're lost.
381
00:29:45,218 --> 00:29:47,654
Jean-Pierre Melville,
do you feel the same?
382
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:52,058
After all, during the Occupation,
383
00:29:52,225 --> 00:29:56,029
you had a hard life too,
with nothing to be glad about.
384
00:29:56,195 --> 00:29:57,964
I don't agree.
385
00:29:58,131 --> 00:30:02,502
For me, personally,
386
00:30:03,102 --> 00:30:08,441
as I said earlier, my memories of
the Occupation aren't only tragic ones.
387
00:30:08,608 --> 00:30:12,512
What mattered
during the Occupation
388
00:30:12,679 --> 00:30:16,816
was the way
the lives of the French changed.
32738
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