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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,960 We have a match. 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,960 Your DNA is on the sweatshirt. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,960 Was it you that attacked Mr Cooper that night? No comment. 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:07,960 You want me to lie for you. 5 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,960 Just say you don't remember anything that happened that night. 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,000 We're done. No. 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,960 After I passed them, I heard splash. 8 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,960 Anything else? 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,640 How about if I check my diary? 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,960 Can we get the luminol in here, please? 11 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,960 The blood on Melinda Ricci's jacket, it belonged to Gerard Cooper. 12 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,960 You're under arrest on suspicion of murder. 13 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,320 I didn't do it. 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,960 MUSIC: 'All We Do' by Oh Wonder 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:50,960 # All we do is hide away 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,640 # All we do is All we do is hide away 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,960 # All we do is lie and wait 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,960 # All we do is All we do is lie and wait 19 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:07,960 # I've been upside down 20 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,960 # I don't wanna be The right way round 21 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,000 # Can't find paradise On the ground. # 22 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,960 What are you doing, Marty? 23 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Whoops-a-daisy. 24 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,960 So can you stop harassing me and my daughter now? 25 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,960 No-one's been harassing you, Juliet. 26 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,160 You went behind my back to my daughter's school. 27 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,960 Yesterday, I had to tell her you might be interrogating her. 28 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,480 We wanted a brief chat. 29 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,960 THAT is your suspect. 30 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,000 A man who's twice come to our home equipped to do us violence. 31 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,960 It's not a very big leap, is it, 32 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,160 to work out that he probably killed Gerry, too? 33 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,800 Come on. 34 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:45,960 How's my mum? 35 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,960 I need to remind you you're still under caution, Marty. 36 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,640 Did she die? 37 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,960 No. 38 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,160 But she's very poorly, I'm afraid. 39 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,640 Oh, Mum. 40 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,960 Yes, that's my jacket. 41 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,960 Are you able to explain why Mr Cooper's blood is on it? 42 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,960 Because he did hit me. 43 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,640 And on that occasion, I hit him back. 44 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:22,960 And where was this? 45 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,960 My flat. 46 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,960 When? February 12th, my birthday. 47 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:28,960 You were seeing each other at this point? 48 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,000 That was the night we split up. Your birthday? 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,320 Oh, yeah. Because? 50 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:37,960 It's a long story. 51 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,960 Here all day. 52 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,960 So, I got pregnant by him in June 2020. 53 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,480 But at that stage of my life, having a child 54 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,320 was just not something I could contemplate... 55 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,960 ..so I had a termination. 56 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,960 And that night, he came round... I'm sorry. 57 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,960 Father Ryan told me that you actually had the baby 58 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,960 and gave it up for adoption? 59 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,960 That's an interesting interpretation of confessional privilege. 60 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,960 Yes, I told Father Ryan that. 61 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,000 Because when I said I'd got pregnant by a married man, 62 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,960 he slightly shat the bed. 63 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,800 I mean, from everything that I've read of yours, 64 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,960 from watching some of your stuff on BNC, 65 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,800 you're a pretty staunch pro-lifer, aren't you? 66 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,960 I think that terminating a potential life 67 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,960 is a desperately sad thing to do. 68 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,960 But bringing a child into the world... 69 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,960 especially now, that you don't want... 70 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,960 ..that you don't feel that you can give the best life to... 71 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,960 is so much more sad... 72 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:00,960 ..is how I feel. 73 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,960 And I profoundly regret not saying that out loud before now. 74 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,960 I think it's fair to say that I'm the worst kind of hypocrite. 75 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,960 And when was it, the termination? 76 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,000 Um... 77 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:22,960 July. 78 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,960 And Cooper knew about it? 79 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,960 Yes, unfortunately. 80 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,160 Why "unfortunately"? 81 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Um, so on... on February 12th, 82 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,960 ..uh, Gerry called me and said that he wanted to come round 83 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,960 to give me something. 84 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,960 And idiot me, I still thought that it was a present, but, um... 85 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,960 actually, it was a demand that I lend him 30 grand. 86 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,960 I presume then, by this stage, he knew that 87 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,960 you'd been offered a contract by BNC? Yes. 88 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:58,960 And what did you say? 89 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,960 No, of course. 90 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,960 Did you have that amount of money? No. 91 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,960 I mean, I had a few thousand saved up, 92 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,000 but nothing near that amount. 93 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,960 And what did he say when you said no? 94 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,800 He would tell BNC and every newspaper I'd ever worked for 95 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,000 that this pro-lifer, devout Catholic, 96 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,960 had broken lockdown rules, 97 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,960 had an affair with a married man, and had an abortion. 98 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,960 And I told him he was evil. 99 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,960 And he punched me in the face. 100 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,960 And I hit him round the head with a carving of a duck, 101 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,480 hence the blood. 102 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:36,960 And then I fled my flat. 103 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,960 And I didn't return until about three hours later, 104 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,960 this time with a male friend, but by that time, he'd... he'd gone. 105 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,960 And will your friend testify to that? Mm. 106 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Yeah, I spoke to him yesterday. I'll give you his details. 107 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,960 Did Cooper ever act on any of his threats? 108 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,960 Not that I'm aware of, no... 109 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,960 but by the time it... it'd come closer to me leaving, 110 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,960 he'd lowered the amount to 5K, 111 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,960 and just to get him off my back, 112 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,960 I agreed to meet him and make him a transfer. 113 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,960 That was on the 24th of February, 114 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,960 and obviously, he... he never showed. 115 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,960 And then I found out from a mutual friend that he'd disappeared. 116 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,960 And given everything that had gone on between us, I just.. 117 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,480 I just wanted to get out of London as quickly as possible. 118 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:24,960 I'll ask you again, 119 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,960 did you ever liaise with Juliet Cooper? 120 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,960 Yes, I spoke to her once. 121 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,480 She must have got my number from his phone, and she... she rang me, 122 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,000 it was about a year before he disappeared. 123 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,960 And she was very unpleasant. 124 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960 She said that she would fuck my life up. 125 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,160 But I never... I never met her in person. 126 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:06,960 Mrs Dowari? 127 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,960 Yes. DS Boulting, Bishop Street Police Station. 128 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,960 I wonder if you could spare me five minutes for a quick chat? 129 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,960 'Would she return here voluntarily?' Well, she said an emphatic "no". 130 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,960 And given any extradition will take many weeks, I'm heading back. 131 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,640 Well, they've also been some interesting developments here. 132 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,960 'Yeah? What's happening?' 133 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,640 Almost immediately, it was clear it wasn't habitable. 134 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,960 Damp started to appear in both bedrooms, 135 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,960 and the children started to cough and have permanent colds. 136 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,960 And you feel bad, complaining, because... 137 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,960 we were immigrants and we had not yet... 138 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,960 had the opportunity to give back to this wonderful country. 139 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,960 But Asif was brilliant and told us 140 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,800 our children have a right to live safely. 141 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,960 He was only our interpreter, 142 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,960 but he fought so hard for us with Mr Cooper. 143 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,960 Except every time Mr Cooper said he'd fix the damp, 144 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,960 all he ever really did was paint over it. 145 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,960 And so our son Jamal got sicker and sicker. 146 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,960 Sorry, how old was Jamal at this point? 147 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,640 18 months when we moved in, in September 2020. 148 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,960 Thank you. Please go on. 149 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,960 So he was really poorly with a lung infection... 150 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,480 ..and then in late January 2021, 151 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,960 he was actually admitted to hospital because of his breathing. 152 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,960 And how long was your son in hospital? 153 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,480 Two weeks and five days. 154 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,800 And then he came home to your new place? 155 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,960 How do you mean? 156 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,960 When he recovered, he came home to your new place? 157 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,960 Jamal never came home. 158 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:54,960 Right. 159 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,960 Sorry, so where did he go? 160 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,960 Jamal died. 161 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,960 Oh, Mrs Dowari. Sorry, I thought you knew. 162 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,960 He had an acute fungal infection in his lungs from the damp, 163 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,960 and he died on the 22nd of February, 2021. 164 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,960 Two days before his second birthday. 165 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,960 I'm so, so sorry. May Allah comfort you. Thank you. 166 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,960 Do you mind if I just ask one last question. Please? 167 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:26,960 Of course. 168 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,960 I presume that Asif wasn't interpreting for you any more, 169 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,480 in your new place? 170 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,960 No. But you kept in contact with each other? 171 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,960 Very much so, he had become a valued friend. 172 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,160 And I'm assuming that he knew about your son's death? 173 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,960 After our family, he was the first person we told. 174 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,000 OK, so, obviously, we need to speak to Asif again. 175 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,960 Yeah. The timing's just too coincidental, isn't it? Agreed. 176 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,960 Fran? We have triangulation. 177 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:27,960 Excellent! 178 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,960 OK, so, if you look on the 22nd, that's the Monday, 179 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,160 data puts Cooper in Brighton, 180 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,960 which checks out with his desk diary - 181 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,960 he was meeting snack suppliers. 182 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,000 Yeah. Then back in Bow, in the evening, 183 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,960 where he calls a local takeaway. 184 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,960 Yes, got that. 185 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,960 Then the 23rd, he seems to spend most of the day in Bow, 186 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,480 presumably working in or above the pub. 187 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,960 OK. Or at least his phone spent most of the day in Bow. 188 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,960 Well, yeah. 189 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,320 But 13:37 on the 24th, 190 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,960 he makes the call to the brewery woman to cancel 191 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,960 the four o'clock meeting, and that call is made in Ilford. 192 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,960 Where was Marty Baines' flat? Ilford. OK. 193 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,960 So on the day he is reported missing, 194 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,480 we have Cooper maybe meeting Marty Baines. Maybe. 195 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,320 And did you actually speak to the brewery person 196 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:12,960 who got the voicemail? Yes. 197 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,960 She said it was definitely Cooper. 198 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,960 OK. So we know he's alive on the 24th. 199 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:18,960 Well, yeah, probably. 200 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,960 How do you mean? 201 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,960 There's just this weird thing. 202 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,960 With the voicemail he left her, she said he called her "babe". 203 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:26,960 Babe? 204 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,960 She said the message was something like, um, 205 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,960 "Sorry, babe, can't make today now, I'll call you." 206 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,960 OK. And do we definitely know that they were just work colleagues? 207 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,960 I mean, given what we do know about him. 208 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,640 Oh, yeah. She said they were definitely just colleagues 209 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,960 and that his language was inappropriate, so... 210 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:44,960 I don't know. 211 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,960 Something about the timing of all this is just off. 212 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,960 The dodgy number plates, 213 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,960 this message... Mm. 214 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,800 ..something... Yeah. 215 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,960 One to ponder. 216 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,480 Uh... OK, listen, thanks, guys. 217 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,960 Hey. Hi, love. Hi. 218 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,320 Um, Steve's been here, he took his stuff. 219 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,960 Yeah, I know, I said he could. No... No, it's not that. 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,960 It's not that, Jess, I'm just a bit worried about him. 221 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,960 'He's saying some bad things.' What things? 222 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,000 Like how he's messed up his whole life 223 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,640 and he can't see a way forward. Is he still there? 224 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,960 'No, he left about ten minutes ago.' 225 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,960 He's found a rental round the corner. Where? 226 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,960 Um, Larford Street. 227 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,960 Jesus, that's literally the next fucking road. 228 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,960 'I mean... he wouldn't do anything silly, would he? 229 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,960 'He's not... He's not like that, is he? 230 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,960 'He's not that sort of person?' No, look, uh, 231 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,960 I'll call him, or I'll drop by on the way home. 232 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,000 What number was it again? '25.' 233 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,960 Right, OK. Um, listen, Mum, I've gotta go. 234 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,960 I'll talk to you later. OK. Thanks. Bye. 235 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,640 So, how was it? 236 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:49,960 I don't know if you're aware of this, 237 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,000 but it rains a lot in Ireland? 238 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,960 You're joking I've never noticed 239 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,960 Listen, are you OK to go straight into an interview with Asif Syed? 240 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,960 We've only got two hours left on the clock. 241 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,320 Yeah. Let's go for it. 242 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,320 And then it'll be straight into Marty Baines. 243 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Murray sent you the Dowari statement, I think? 244 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,960 He did, and I've got an idea on how to approach this. 245 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:08,960 Great. Fire away. 246 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:10,960 Since we last spoke, 247 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,960 we have new information on the Dowari family. 248 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,960 Do you remember Jamal Dowari? 249 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,960 No comment. 250 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,960 Well, according to his mum, Nahal, you absolutely adored him. 251 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,160 You bought him a play mat for his first birthday, you... 252 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,960 baby-sat him on numerous occasions, do you remember that? 253 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,960 No comment. 254 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,000 I'm sorry to bring this up 255 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,960 because I can see you're getting upset, 256 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,960 but do you remember what caused little Jamal's death? 257 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,960 No comment. 258 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,960 I think you do remember because you were at the hospital, 259 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,800 helping the Dowari family understand what was happening 260 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,800 and speaking to the doctors, weren't you? 261 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:00,960 No comment. 262 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,960 You know he died of a fungal infection, 263 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,960 almost certainly caused by the conditions 264 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:07,960 in Gerard Cooper's flat. 265 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,960 No comment. 266 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,960 Do you remember the day he died, Asif? 267 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,160 He died on the 22nd of February, 2021, 268 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,000 just two days before his second birthday... 269 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,960 ..and less than 48 hours before Gerard Cooper disappeared. 270 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,960 So, listen, let me tell you where we are. 271 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,960 I think you're in a bit of a... panic. 272 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,960 I think you see your whole world collapsing - your citizenship, 273 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,960 your relationship, your whole life in the UK. 274 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960 And the truth is, if you do remain silent, 275 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,960 we would be obliged to seek the authority to charge you 276 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,960 with the car park assault, 277 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,960 despite us knowing that Gerard Cooper was a violent man 278 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,480 you may well have had to defend yourself against. 279 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,960 For your information, 280 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,960 I've spoken to the police at Barnstable, 281 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:03,960 and they will not be charging you with any immigration offences. 282 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,960 Your partner has taken full responsibility for that. 283 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,960 So we would love to be able to eliminate you 284 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,800 from our enquiries as well. 285 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,960 We suspect you're a good man, Asif, but... 286 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,960 ..you need to help us here. 287 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,640 Help us help you. 288 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,640 A few weeks after Jamal first got sick, 289 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,960 in December, I... 290 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,960 I went to see Cooper at his pub doing a lunch for the homeless. 291 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:45,960 And there he was... 292 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,960 ..serving food and handing out clothes and presents, and... 293 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,960 ..he was brilliant. 294 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,320 Kind, funny, generous and just... just lovely. 295 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,960 Which is when I realised... 296 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,960 ..he could be empathetic, 297 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,960 he did have the capacity for compassion, he just... 298 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,960 ..he just chose not to show it to us. 299 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,960 Because he'd stopped seeing us... 300 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:32,960 ..as human. 301 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,960 We had "swarmed over" in our "hordes". 302 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,960 He saw us as... vermin. 303 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,960 The day Jamal got admitted, I went to see Cooper that night. 304 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,960 I'd taken a... a photo of Jamal on a drip, 305 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,160 and my intention was just to show him, 306 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,960 to shame him, and naively, I thought maybe... 307 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,960 maybe it would change him. 308 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,960 His reaction at first was to intimidate me physically, 309 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,000 pushing and shoving cos he was a bully. 310 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,960 And when that didn't work, 311 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,640 because why would it with someone like me, 312 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,960 he actually tried to hit me. 313 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:15,960 I mean, he was out of shape, 314 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,960 and I put him down with two punches, but... 315 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,960 ..that was it. 316 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,960 I walked away leaving him groaning on the ground but very much alive. 317 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,960 So what were you doing in Juliet Cooper's house, Marty? 318 00:18:58,960 --> 00:18:59,960 I wanted to speak to Taylor. 319 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:01,960 Right. And what did you want to say to her? 320 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,960 I wanted to offer her my sincere condolences for her loss. 321 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,000 You broke into her house late at night to offer your condolences? 322 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,640 Yes, I did. 323 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,960 You had a screwdriver on you, Marty, in your bag 324 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,640 and a hammer in your hand when we intercepted you. 325 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,960 Marty Baines, lock-breaker extraordinaire. 326 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,960 So you've broken into her home before, haven't you? 327 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,160 Uh, yes, I have. Where was that? 328 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,960 Above the pub. Why'd you do that? 329 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320 To give her dad a right sorting out. Marty. 330 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,960 You wanted to do violence to him? Uh, yes, I did. 331 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,000 Punch him on the hooter. 332 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,960 OK. 333 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,960 So we know that Taylor talked you out of doing anything that day, 334 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,960 but did you later change your mind? No. I did not. 335 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,960 At a later date, did you get angry again 336 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,800 about what he did to you, and specifically to your dad, 337 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,000 and attack him? No, I did not. 338 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,960 Did you kill him, Marty? No man has the right 339 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,000 to take another man's life, DI Sunil Khan. 340 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,960 Can we talk to you about Ilford? 341 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,960 I lived in Ilford. Yes, we know. 342 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,000 We wanted to ask you about a particular day. 343 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,320 What day? A day we think that Gerry Cooper was in Ilford as well. 344 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,960 In 2021, in February, 345 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,960 we wanted ask you if you remember meeting him in Ilford? 346 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,640 I never met him in Ilford. 347 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,960 Are you sure? Yes, I'm sure. 348 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,960 He never came to your flat? He never came to my flat. 349 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Cos we have a record of a phone call he made from Ilford 350 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,960 on the day we think he might have disappeared. 351 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,960 What day is this? The 24th of February, 2021. 352 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,960 On the 24th of February, I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches 353 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,800 for breakfast, watched Lorraine and Homes Under The Hammer, 354 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,960 before walking to City Airport to watch for planes. 355 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,960 I returned to my flat at 20:55 356 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,960 in time for Kirstie and Phil on Love It Or List It. 357 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,960 That's very detailed, Marty. 358 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,160 Can I ask you why you have never told us this before? 359 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,960 You never asked me. 360 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,160 Out of interest, can I ask you what you did on the 23rd? 361 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,960 On the 23rd of February, I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches 362 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,960 for breakfast, watched Lorraine and Homes Under The Hammer, 363 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,960 before walking to City Airport to watch for planes. 364 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,480 I returned to my flat at 20:35 for The Real CSI at 21:00. 365 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,960 I'd put good money on him being on that airport CCTV 366 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,960 exactly when he said he was. Mm. 367 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960 Boss? 368 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,960 The cyclist's daughter dropped his diary in. Oh, yeah? 369 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,960 Like he said, it was 3:30 in the morning 370 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,960 when he witnessed the disposal, but it was 3:30 on the 24th. 371 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,160 No way. 372 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,960 Which obviously begs a number of questions. 373 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,960 Yeah, just a few. Yeah. The most obvious one of which 374 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,960 is how the hell does a man leave a voicemail on someone's phone... 375 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,960 ..when his dismembered body had been thrown into the marsh 376 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,960 ten hours before? 377 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:10,960 So, these... 378 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,960 according to DVLA, are the five number plates 379 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,960 at the time of the murder of the cars of Asif Syed, 380 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,960 Melinda Ricci, Marty Baines's dad, Gerry Cooper and Juliet Cooper. 381 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,960 All pretty anonymous saloons. And this... 382 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,320 ..is our murder car. Now, it's possible, I guess, 383 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,960 that the killer could've acquired fake plates, 384 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,960 but that would have required a lot of prior planning, 385 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,960 suggests premeditation. This wasn't premeditated. 386 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,960 No. So my best guess is they altered their own plates 387 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,960 with marker pen or tape or whatever. 388 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,960 Changed an F to an E, a three or a six to an eight, etc. 389 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960 So basically, which of these five plates 390 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,960 could most easily be changed to match that one? Exactly. 391 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,000 So, who's good at Wordle? 392 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000 It's obviously not that one or that one. 393 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 Can't be this one, either. Yeah... 394 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,960 Well, two Fs can be Es. 395 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,960 Yeah, and that P's gotta be that B. 396 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,960 Yeah, so it's obviously this one, isn't it? 397 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,960 The M stays the same, the C changes to an O. 398 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,160 The five to a six. Seven stays the same. 399 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,960 Two Es and a B. 400 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,960 So, whose car is that? 401 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,960 That car belonged to... 402 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960 ..Juliet Cooper. 403 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,160 Hass? 'Asif?' 404 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960 That was the hospital. 405 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,960 Marty's mum's recovered consciousness. 406 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,320 And she just told a nurse 407 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,960 that she stirred the pills into her own drink. 408 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,960 Why? Said she felt a burden. 409 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,960 Said she felt that he would get better help without her. 410 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,960 Right, aside from the burglary dwelling, 411 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960 let's release him NFA. Yep. 412 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,960 He'll need to be with her. Mm-hm. 413 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,960 Has anyone seen DI Khan? 414 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,800 I really like you. 415 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,960 I always have, but you were taken. 416 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,960 But over the last year or so, 417 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,640 as we've got to know each other better, it's just... 418 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,960 ..it's just been lovely. 419 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,960 And then the other night happened. 420 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,960 And then you rang and rang. And I... ran. 421 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,480 As I always have, actually. 422 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,960 So I'm just gonna say what I'm gonna say, 423 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,960 and then if you don't mind, I'm gonna go back to work, and... 424 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,960 ..you can absorb it without the pressure of me... 425 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:08,960 looking at you? 426 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,960 You're not a serial killer, are you? 427 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:29,000 24 years ago, I was in a relationship with a bloke, and... 428 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,960 we'd been together three pretty unhappy years, and then... 429 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,800 ..one day, I went out to get some fags and never came back. 430 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,160 Which was... fine. Except... 431 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,000 ..we had a daughter who I also left behind. 432 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,960 And who, for many complicated reasons, 433 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,480 I haven't seen... since. 434 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,960 Which is obviously quite a thing. 435 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,960 That's what I thought you should know. 436 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960 And obviously, there were mental health issues 437 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,800 and court cases and... lots and lots of pain... 438 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,960 and I'm sure you have a million questions, 439 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,320 but as I say, I'm gonna head back to work now, 440 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,960 but I just wanted you to know that, and, um... 441 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:27,960 and... 442 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,320 ..yeah. 443 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,960 Call me if you still... 444 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,960 Yeah. Hey. Leanne... 445 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,960 Jess. What's happening? 446 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,960 The thing that tripped us up 447 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,800 was the voice message left on the 24th. 448 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,960 But I'm guessing that was an old message left for you, 449 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,960 and you just replayed it into his phone mic, 450 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,960 as you used HIS phone to call the brewery colleague. 451 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,960 Nice touch driving to Ilford to make the call, though. Mm. 452 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,640 And when we track down your old car, 453 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,960 I wonder if we'll find residue of the marker pen or gaffer tape 454 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,960 you used on the number plate? 455 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,960 No jury would ever convict on any of that. 456 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,480 Oh, I don't know. 457 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,960 But we'll also speak to your daughter. 458 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 And I have a strong feeling 459 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,960 that based on your intense desire for us not to 460 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,800 that she saw something that night. 461 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,960 Or... you can tell us what happened... 462 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,960 ..and maybe... maybe we don't need to involve Taylor. 463 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,800 I'll tell you. 464 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,960 The marriage had been broken many years. 465 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,640 He'd changed so much from the person I met in 2009. 466 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,320 I guess we both changed. 467 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,640 The further he lurched to the right, 468 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,960 the more I'd provoke him, mostly deliberately. And end up... 469 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,960 ..loathing him all afresh. 470 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,320 Why didn't you just separate? Taylor. 471 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,960 Our finances. 472 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,640 The pandemic. Inertia. There were always reasons. 473 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,000 Bad ones, but reasons. 474 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,960 And so... 475 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:51,960 ..how did it end? 476 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,480 It was the night of the 22nd. 477 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,960 I was cooking. Making stuff for the freezer. 478 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,960 And... he got back late, after 11, drunk, and... 479 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,960 told me he'd be out on the 24th. 480 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,960 I reminded him sarcastically 481 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,960 that that was our wedding anniversary, and he... 482 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,960 ..spewed out some misogyny or other, 483 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,960 and we started to go at each other. 484 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,960 Taylor was deep asleep upstairs, thank God. 485 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,160 And as usual, when I bested him verbally, 486 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,480 which I always did cos it turns out he was thick... 487 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,160 ..he'd start getting physical - 488 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,960 pushing me and grabbing my hair. 489 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,960 So, I'd gone to the kitchen table to try to de-escalate things. 490 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,960 I sat down to continue chopping and... 491 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,640 ..without any warning, he punched the back of my head... 492 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,960 ..really hard. And it was... 493 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:08,800 ..so painful and such a shock that something in me snapped, 494 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,960 and I-I... 495 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,960 ..I span round in my chair... 496 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,960 ..and... and sort of punched the top of his leg... 497 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,960 ..with a little paring knife still in my hand. 498 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,960 And he must have been so surprised himself, 499 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,960 he didn't even come after me as I bolted, 500 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,960 and I managed to get to the downstairs loo 501 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:33,960 and lock myself in. 502 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,960 And I could hear him shouting at me, calling me a bitch and a whore, 503 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,960 and telling me what he was going to do to me. 504 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,640 And then I heard him say he was bleeding badly. 505 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,960 And then it went quiet for a bit, and... and then he... 506 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,960 ..he called my name, still quite angrily... 507 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,960 and then it just went quiet. And stayed quiet. 508 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,960 I stayed in the loo for, I don't know, maybe half an hour. 509 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,320 I didn't come out till I was sure he'd have calmed down. 510 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,640 I found him on the kitchen floor in a pool of blood. 511 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,320 Dead. 512 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,960 MARTY: No good crying over spilt milk, Mum. 513 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,960 Just want you home now. 514 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,960 That's what we're gonna do, Marty. 515 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,960 Soon as Mum's up and walking, 516 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,960 we'll get her some help at home, OK? 517 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,960 Yeah? Yeah. 518 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,960 Help at home, that's what we wanted, isn't it? Yeah? 519 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,960 Home sweet home, Mum. 520 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,960 As soon as I saw he was dead... 521 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,960 ..in that same instant... 522 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,160 I knew... 523 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,160 ..I would do whatever I needed to do to protect my daughter. 524 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:21,480 I would not... I could not leave her alone. 525 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,960 No father, and me in prison. 526 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,960 But I knew I needed to be... 527 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,960 very fucking focused not to get caught. 528 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,960 First up, I used multiple cloths to mop it up, 529 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,320 put them all into a bucket, 530 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,960 and then everything into multiple bin liners. 531 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,960 I then stripped all my clothes off, put them into bin liners, 532 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,960 and then wrapped Gerry in the same 533 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,640 before dragging him into his office and locking the door. 534 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,960 In the morning, I took Taylor to school... 535 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,960 ..saying Daddy had left for a work meeting, 536 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,960 and arranged a playdate for her that evening. 537 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,960 I then went to work, leaving Gerry's phone on 538 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,480 and charged at home. 539 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,960 My last lecture finished at three, 540 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,960 then I drove home, stopping first at an internet cafe 541 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,640 to Google the fuck out of stuff, 542 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,960 then a hardware store, where I bought... 543 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,960 ..two new carving knives, more refuse sacks 544 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,960 and some gaffer tape, with cash. 545 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,640 When I got back to the pub... 546 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,960 ..I made sure I had a nice chat with them all then went upstairs. 547 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,960 I dragged Gerry back into the kitchen... 548 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,480 ..and I cut him up into six pieces. 549 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,000 Took less than an hour. 550 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,640 Minimal blood by this stage, obviously. 551 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,960 Then I wrapped each part in bin liners, and again, 552 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,960 took off all my clothes, put them into bin liners, 553 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,960 before showering and putting on fresh clothes. 554 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,960 I then put Gerry back in his office, 555 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,480 locked the door, and drove to pick up Taylor from her playdate. 556 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,160 When she was in the bath... 557 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,960 ..one by one, I put the bits of Gerry into a big holdall 558 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,960 and then into the boot of the car. 559 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,960 I then stirred a herbal sleeping pill 560 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,960 into a cup of hot chocolate and put Taylor to bed. 561 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,960 After the pub was shut, 562 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,960 I went and changed the number plate with cut-up pieces of gaffer tape, 563 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,960 and at 2:30 in the morning, I drove east to the marshes. 564 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,960 And that's what happened. 565 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,960 Her timeline's wrong. Her what? 566 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,160 What? What is it? 567 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:36,960 There. Right? 568 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,960 On the 22nd, he calls a takeaway at 19:12, 569 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,960 which is about 100 yards from their flat. Yeah? 570 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,960 And then... 571 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,960 he gets this text message confirming the delivery address for the order 572 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,000 as the flat above their pub. 573 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,960 Well, why would she say that he didn't get home till 11? 574 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,320 Exactly. Why lie about the timing, if you've confessed to the murder? 575 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:01,960 Why do you think? 576 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,960 I think you know. 577 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,640 Taylor, you wouldn't be telling us anything we don't already know. 578 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,960 Yeah. Yes. Yeah, he hit her. 579 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:24,960 And did you witness it? 580 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,960 I heard it. Lots of times. 581 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,960 And... I saw the bruises on her body. 582 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,960 But then the last row, I actually did see it, yeah. 583 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960 OK. 584 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,960 And can you tell us about it? 585 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,000 Look, whatever's happened, 586 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,960 whatever my mum's admitted doing, 587 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,960 it would have only been in self-defence. 588 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,000 We absolutely know that. 589 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,960 I was... I was just in my bedroom, doing some homework, um... 590 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,960 and I heard him start shouting. Roughly what time? 591 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,640 Maybe eight? OK. 592 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:10,960 So I put my buds in... 593 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,960 ..but I could still hear him. 594 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,960 And, um, I could hear her screaming back at him. 595 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,960 And I don't know why, but this time, I decided to go downstairs. 596 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,960 And she was on the floor in the kitchen. 597 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,960 She was on her side, and she kept trying to get up, 598 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,960 but every time she would, he'd... 599 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,960 bring the heel of his boot down on her ribs really hard. 600 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,960 And, um, she was crying, 601 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,960 and it was horrible. 602 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,480 He had his back to me, and she was faced away, 603 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:41,960 so neither of them saw me, but... 604 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,960 I just, I wanted to do something to stop him 605 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,960 because I thought he was gonna kill her. 606 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,960 So there was this little knife on the kitchen table, 607 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,960 and I grabbed it and sort of jabbed it into his leg. 608 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,960 I'm just gonna have to quickly caution... 609 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,960 It's fi... It's fine, it's fine. There's no need. Um, carry on. 610 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,480 So you... you grabbed it, and you jabbed it in his leg. 611 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,960 Yeah, and he, um, he cried out in shock. 612 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,960 He swung round, and he saw me, and he looked so upset. 613 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,960 Um... 614 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,960 But then Mum was back up on her feet, so she grabbed my hand, 615 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,000 and she led me upstairs. And I just remember looking back 616 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,960 and seeing him watch me go, holding the back of his leg, 617 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,960 and he just looked really sad. 618 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,960 And then, my mum ran me a bath upstairs, and... 619 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,000 ..she read with me, and then... 620 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,960 then she stroked me to sleep. 621 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,960 And the next morning, there was a... a Crunchie by the side of my bed. 622 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,000 And, um... 623 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,960 Mum said that Dad had left it for me 624 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,960 and that he had to leave early for a work meeting, so... 625 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,960 ..I knew he'd forgiven me for what I'd done. 626 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,960 And, uh... 627 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,320 ..did you see him that evening? 628 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,960 No. I had a playdate after school. 629 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,960 And, um, Mum said that he was on a work call in his office 630 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,960 and that I wasn't to disturb him. 631 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,000 And then the next day was when he went missing. 632 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,960 Oh, my God. 633 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,960 She doesn't know. 634 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,640 No. 635 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,960 Her mother took her upstairs, she never even saw him bleeding. 636 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,480 I mean... what do we even do with that? Just... 637 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,960 What do we do? 638 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,960 OK, so I think we only really have two options. 639 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,960 We somehow ignore that, 640 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,000 what she just said, let the mother take the blame. 641 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,960 OK, so Juliet goes self-defence, gets maybe... 642 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,960 four years, out in two? Yeah. 643 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,960 And then we're liable for perverting the course of justice. 644 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,960 Yes. Or? 645 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,960 We tell the CPS. What she just told us? 646 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,960 They will almost certainly decide that charges 647 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,160 are not in the public interest. Almost certainly. 648 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,960 Well, exactly. 649 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,960 And even... even if they do decide that, 650 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,960 a 14-year-old kid still has to live with the knowledge 651 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,960 that she killed her own dad. 652 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,960 Do you know what? This is not our decision to make. 653 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,960 Who the hell else's is it? It's Juliet's. 654 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960 No. You do not want the weight of this on your shoulders. 655 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,800 Please. Jess... 656 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,960 ..trust me, you do not. 657 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,960 We need to speak to Juliet. 658 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,960 Why would you have interviewed her? Why would you have done that? 659 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:01,960 She's been through so much already. 660 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,960 Why couldn't you just let me protect her? 661 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,960 Because even taking into account the circumstances, Juliet, 662 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,960 you might still spend two years in jail 663 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,960 away from your daughter. Which is infinitely better 664 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,320 than her spending a single second there! 665 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,960 Except we don't think she would. 666 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,480 We think a reasonable force argument would prevail, 667 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,960 and we don't think the CPS would want to prosecute. 668 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,960 Now, you could then be charged with unlawful disposal 669 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,960 and perverting the course of justice... 670 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,960 ..but again, given the circumstances, 671 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,960 we don't think the CPS would want to prosecute, 672 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,960 although that's a risk you need to consider. 673 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,960 Now obviously, you know, we can't guarantee anything, 674 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,960 but you can decide what you want to do. 675 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,960 There's... There's no record of our conversation with Taylor. 676 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,960 We just wanted to let you know that you have a choice. 677 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,960 Oh, my God. 678 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,480 What would you do? 679 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,480 So for a number of reasons, this is my last show. 680 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,960 BNC have said it's because I've been guilty 681 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,960 of "moral turpitude", and... maybe I have, 682 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,960 but I think the real reason I've been fired is because 683 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,960 I've stopped being able to say what they want me to say 684 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,960 and believe it. 685 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,960 Now, what they've wanted me to say was generally 686 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,960 what they thought YOU believed. And of course, you're entitled 687 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,800 to hold whichever views you wish, 688 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,960 it is a free country with free speech, 689 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,960 but I do also want to say this. 690 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,960 Don't you sometimes want to hear the other side of the debate? 691 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,960 I think a channel like ours should test 692 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,960 and challenge its audience sometimes. 693 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,160 I think we should air contrary positions 694 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,960 to the ones we know you think because surely, it's only through 695 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,960 a vigorous but respectful exchange of opinions, 696 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,960 that new ideas, hopefully better ones, 697 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,960 about how we live our lives today can begin to develop. 698 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,960 Now, I was pretty angry when they first fired me, 699 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,960 and I was gonna sit here and give them 700 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,960 and you both barrels tonight. 701 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,000 But you know what? 702 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,960 Enough rage, 703 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,960 enough division, it's really not getting us anywhere, is it? 704 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,480 So instead I wish you all love, I wish you all peace, and for now, 705 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,320 from me, it's good night, good luck, and God bless. 706 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,960 WOMAN: Thank you, Mel. 707 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,960 MAN: 'Coming up later...' 708 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,480 What's happening, Mum? 709 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,960 And you'll lose your commission, hm? Probably. 710 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:16,960 Oh, Sam. 711 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,960 Hey, I'm... not gonna be incarcerated on a barge 712 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,960 for the next God knows how many months, so... 713 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,960 I've no regrets. 714 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,320 I took you for granted. 715 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,800 And you being able to stay here... 716 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,960 ..us being able to be together is way more important than my job. 717 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,960 And, uh... 718 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,800 Fuck it. Um... 719 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,960 This is not how I planned this, um... 720 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,960 How would you fancy marrying me, gorgeous man? 721 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,000 Yes. Yes. Oh. 722 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,960 Yep, OK, understood. 723 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,960 OK, I'll tell them. Thanks. Bye. 724 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,960 Not in the public interest to charge Taylor. 725 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:33,960 And Juliet? 726 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,960 Same. 727 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,960 We made a decision 728 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,960 Sometimes, that's all you can do. 729 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,000 Yeah. 730 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,960 Let's go tell 'em. 731 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,960 Hey. Mel. Hey. How are you? 732 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,960 I'm good, thanks, really good. 733 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,960 Not seen you for a few days. 734 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,960 Uh, no, I've been away for a bit. But I'm back now. 735 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,960 I'm back. Good. 736 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,160 'Hi, you've reached Leanne. 737 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,320 'Please leave a message after the tone.' 738 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,320 Hey, it's me. Um... 739 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,960 so thank you for telling me what you did. 740 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,960 I'm not sure how you expected me to react, but... 741 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,960 but you seemed pretty scared, uh, and I get that. 742 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,160 So let's meet, let's, uh, talk more, let's get drunk more. 743 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,960 We all have our stories, Lea. 744 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000 Stuff that we did that we wish was different. 745 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,480 The people that we were that we wish we weren't. 746 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,960 God knows I have. 747 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,960 So let's meet. 748 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,960 Yeah, let's talk. 749 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:01,960 Call me, when you're ready. 750 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,960 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 58803

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