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1
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We have a match.
2
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,247
Your DNA is on the sweatshirt.
3
00:00:03,248 --> 00:00:04,988
Was it you that attacked Mr Cooper
that night?
4
00:00:05,013 --> 00:00:05,967
No comment.
5
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:07,889
You want me to lie for you.
6
00:00:07,890 --> 00:00:12,542
Just say you don't remember anything
that happened that night.
7
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,883
- We're done.
- No.
8
00:00:15,826 --> 00:00:18,785
After I passed them, I heard splash.
9
00:00:18,785 --> 00:00:19,799
Anything else?
10
00:00:19,799 --> 00:00:22,327
How about if I check my diary?
11
00:00:22,328 --> 00:00:24,532
Can we get the luminol in here, please?
12
00:00:24,532 --> 00:00:28,288
The blood on Melinda Ricci's jacket,
it belonged to Gerard Cooper.
13
00:00:28,289 --> 00:00:30,533
You're under arrest
on suspicion of murder.
14
00:00:31,817 --> 00:00:33,167
I didn't do it.
15
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:50,960
♪ All we do is hide away
16
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,639
♪ All we do is All we do is hide away
17
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,960
♪ All we do is lie and wait
18
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,959
♪ All we do is
All we do is lie and wait
19
00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:07,959
♪ I've been upside down
20
00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,959
♪ I don't wanna be The right way round
21
00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,000
♪ Can't find paradise On the ground. ♪
22
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,701
What are you doing, Marty?
23
00:02:04,807 --> 00:02:06,376
Whoops-a-daisy.
24
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,815
So can you stop harassing me
and my daughter now?
25
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,785
No-one's been harassing you, Juliet.
26
00:02:22,785 --> 00:02:25,059
You went behind my back
to my daughter's school.
27
00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:27,621
Yesterday, I had to tell her
you might be interrogating her.
28
00:02:27,622 --> 00:02:29,058
We wanted a brief chat.
29
00:02:29,059 --> 00:02:31,105
THAT is your suspect.
30
00:02:31,666 --> 00:02:35,753
A man who's twice come to our home
equipped to do us violence.
31
00:02:36,132 --> 00:02:37,535
It's not a very big leap, is it,
32
00:02:37,536 --> 00:02:40,020
to work out that
he probably killed Gerry, too?
33
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,268
Come on.
34
00:02:44,308 --> 00:02:45,336
How's my mum?
35
00:02:45,337 --> 00:02:47,315
I need to remind you
you're still under caution, Marty.
36
00:02:47,316 --> 00:02:48,843
Did she die?
37
00:02:50,356 --> 00:02:51,336
No.
38
00:02:52,459 --> 00:02:54,802
But she's very poorly, I'm afraid.
39
00:02:56,848 --> 00:02:59,291
Oh, Mum.
40
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,556
Yes, that's my jacket.
41
00:03:09,740 --> 00:03:13,082
Are you able to explain why
Mr Cooper's blood is on it?
42
00:03:14,499 --> 00:03:16,319
Because he did hit me.
43
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,432
And on that occasion, I hit him back.
44
00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:23,649
- And where was this?
- My flat.
45
00:03:24,253 --> 00:03:27,009
- When?
- February 12th, my birthday.
46
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,947
You were seeing each other
at this point?
47
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,721
- That was the night we split up.
- Your birthday?
48
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,320
- Oh, yeah.
- Because?
49
00:03:36,112 --> 00:03:37,500
It's a long story.
50
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,304
Here all day.
51
00:03:49,733 --> 00:03:53,573
So, I got pregnant by him in June 2020.
52
00:03:56,269 --> 00:03:59,073
But at that stage of my life,
having a child
53
00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:01,079
was just not something
I could contemplate...
54
00:04:03,653 --> 00:04:06,475
..so I had a termination.
55
00:04:07,454 --> 00:04:09,356
- And that night, he came round...
- I'm sorry.
56
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,287
Father Ryan told me
that you actually had the baby
57
00:04:12,287 --> 00:04:13,912
and gave it up for adoption?
58
00:04:14,417 --> 00:04:17,960
That's an interesting interpretation
of confessional privilege.
59
00:04:19,666 --> 00:04:21,622
Yes, I told Father Ryan that.
60
00:04:21,623 --> 00:04:24,434
Because when I said I'd got pregnant
by a married man,
61
00:04:25,124 --> 00:04:26,973
he slightly shat the bed.
62
00:04:27,402 --> 00:04:29,709
I mean, from everything
that I've read of yours,
63
00:04:30,207 --> 00:04:33,366
from watching some of your stuff
on BNC,
64
00:04:33,367 --> 00:04:36,077
you're a pretty staunch pro-lifer,
aren't you?
65
00:04:38,771 --> 00:04:41,136
I think that terminating
a potential life
66
00:04:41,137 --> 00:04:43,375
is a desperately sad thing to do.
67
00:04:45,713 --> 00:04:47,919
But bringing a child into the world...
68
00:04:48,537 --> 00:04:51,713
especially now, that you don't want...
69
00:04:52,688 --> 00:04:55,205
..that you don't feel that
you can give the best life to...
70
00:04:55,780 --> 00:04:57,520
is so much more sad...
71
00:04:59,125 --> 00:05:00,497
..is how I feel.
72
00:05:03,087 --> 00:05:06,546
And I profoundly regret
not saying that out loud before now.
73
00:05:06,819 --> 00:05:09,410
I think it's fair to say that
I'm the worst kind of hypocrite.
74
00:05:10,877 --> 00:05:13,200
And when was it, the termination?
75
00:05:17,713 --> 00:05:18,753
Um...
76
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,320
July.
77
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,799
And Cooper knew about it?
78
00:05:26,445 --> 00:05:27,965
Yes, unfortunately.
79
00:05:28,366 --> 00:05:29,913
Why "unfortunately"?
80
00:05:31,346 --> 00:05:34,566
Um, so on... on February 12th,
81
00:05:35,686 --> 00:05:38,853
..uh, Gerry called me and said
that he wanted to come round
82
00:05:39,509 --> 00:05:41,093
to give me something.
83
00:05:41,502 --> 00:05:46,001
And idiot me, I still thought
that it was a present, but, um...
84
00:05:46,585 --> 00:05:50,330
actually, it was a demand
that I lend him 30 grand.
85
00:05:52,295 --> 00:05:54,591
I presume then, by this stage,
he knew that
86
00:05:54,592 --> 00:05:56,405
you'd been offered a contract by BNC?
87
00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:57,275
Yes.
88
00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:58,514
And what did you say?
89
00:05:58,514 --> 00:06:00,453
No, of course.
90
00:06:00,478 --> 00:06:02,756
- Did you have that amount of money?
- No.
91
00:06:04,366 --> 00:06:06,197
I mean, I had a few thousand saved up,
92
00:06:06,198 --> 00:06:07,991
but nothing near that amount.
93
00:06:08,016 --> 00:06:09,755
And what did he say when you said no?
94
00:06:09,756 --> 00:06:13,810
He would tell BNC and every
newspaper I'd ever worked for
95
00:06:14,252 --> 00:06:16,868
that this pro-lifer, devout Catholic,
96
00:06:16,869 --> 00:06:18,616
had broken lockdown rules,
97
00:06:18,617 --> 00:06:22,343
had an affair with a married man,
and had an abortion.
98
00:06:23,495 --> 00:06:25,284
And I told him he was evil.
99
00:06:26,632 --> 00:06:28,816
And he punched me in the face.
100
00:06:30,509 --> 00:06:33,395
And I hit him round the head
with a carving of a duck,
101
00:06:33,689 --> 00:06:34,847
hence the blood.
102
00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:36,721
And then I fled my flat.
103
00:06:39,091 --> 00:06:41,194
And I didn't return
until about three hours later,
104
00:06:41,195 --> 00:06:44,739
this time with a male friend,
but by that time, he'd... he'd gone.
105
00:06:44,764 --> 00:06:47,258
- And will your friend testify to that?
- Mm.
106
00:06:47,459 --> 00:06:50,648
Yeah, I spoke to him yesterday.
I'll give you his details.
107
00:06:51,979 --> 00:06:55,593
Did Cooper ever act on
any of his threats?
108
00:06:55,594 --> 00:06:57,238
Not that I'm aware of, no...
109
00:06:57,681 --> 00:07:00,642
but by the time it...
it'd come closer to me leaving,
110
00:07:00,643 --> 00:07:02,636
he'd lowered the amount to 5K,
111
00:07:02,976 --> 00:07:04,618
and just to get him off my back,
112
00:07:04,619 --> 00:07:07,621
I agreed to meet him
and make him a transfer.
113
00:07:07,951 --> 00:07:10,216
That was on the 24th of February,
114
00:07:10,216 --> 00:07:12,403
and obviously, he... he never showed.
115
00:07:12,976 --> 00:07:15,969
And then I found out from a mutual
friend that he'd disappeared.
116
00:07:16,461 --> 00:07:19,207
And given everything that
had gone on between us, I just..
117
00:07:19,706 --> 00:07:22,258
I just wanted to get out of London
as quickly as possible.
118
00:07:23,603 --> 00:07:24,976
I'll ask you again,
119
00:07:25,113 --> 00:07:27,705
did you ever liaise with Juliet Cooper?
120
00:07:29,951 --> 00:07:31,951
Yes, I spoke to her once.
121
00:07:32,145 --> 00:07:35,042
She must have got my number from
his phone, and she... she rang me,
122
00:07:35,043 --> 00:07:37,607
it was about a year before
he disappeared.
123
00:07:38,016 --> 00:07:40,659
And she was very unpleasant.
124
00:07:41,644 --> 00:07:44,433
She said that
she would fuck my life up.
125
00:07:45,355 --> 00:07:47,998
But I never...
I never met her in person.
126
00:08:05,723 --> 00:08:07,558
- Mrs Dowari?
- Yes.
127
00:08:07,583 --> 00:08:10,023
DS Boulting,
Bishop Street Police Station.
128
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,649
I wonder if you could spare me
five minutes for a quick chat?
129
00:08:15,037 --> 00:08:18,991
- Would she return here voluntarily?
- Well, she said an emphatic "no".
130
00:08:19,445 --> 00:08:22,728
And given any extradition will take
many weeks, I'm heading back.
131
00:08:22,728 --> 00:08:26,048
Well, they've also been
some interesting developments here.
132
00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:28,272
Yeah? What's happening?
133
00:08:28,769 --> 00:08:32,181
Almost immediately,
it was clear it wasn't habitable.
134
00:08:32,464 --> 00:08:34,874
Damp started to appear
in both bedrooms,
135
00:08:34,875 --> 00:08:39,261
and the children started to cough
and have permanent colds.
136
00:08:40,189 --> 00:08:44,333
And you feel bad, complaining,
because...
137
00:08:44,334 --> 00:08:47,156
we were immigrants
and we had not yet...
138
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,808
had the opportunity to give back
to this wonderful country.
139
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,587
But Asif was brilliant and told us
140
00:08:54,587 --> 00:08:57,929
our children have a right
to live safely.
141
00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,865
He was only our interpreter,
142
00:09:00,866 --> 00:09:03,621
but he fought so hard for us
with Mr Cooper.
143
00:09:04,531 --> 00:09:07,749
Except every time Mr Cooper
said he'd fix the damp,
144
00:09:07,749 --> 00:09:10,463
all he ever really did
was paint over it.
145
00:09:11,214 --> 00:09:13,784
And so our son Jamal got sicker
and sicker.
146
00:09:13,784 --> 00:09:16,452
Sorry, how old was Jamal at this point?
147
00:09:17,422 --> 00:09:20,918
18 months when we moved in,
in September 2020.
148
00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:23,238
Thank you. Please go on.
149
00:09:23,831 --> 00:09:27,416
So he was really poorly
with a lung infection...
150
00:09:28,445 --> 00:09:31,148
..and then in late January 2021,
151
00:09:31,148 --> 00:09:34,541
he was actually admitted to hospital
because of his breathing.
152
00:09:34,541 --> 00:09:36,806
And how long was your son in hospital?
153
00:09:37,706 --> 00:09:40,252
Two weeks and five days.
154
00:09:41,089 --> 00:09:44,203
And then he came home
to your new place?
155
00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:45,976
How do you mean?
156
00:09:46,126 --> 00:09:48,756
When he recovered,
he came home to your new place?
157
00:09:49,451 --> 00:09:51,823
Jamal never came home.
158
00:09:53,263 --> 00:09:54,558
Right.
159
00:09:55,827 --> 00:09:59,045
Sorry, so where did he go?
160
00:10:00,776 --> 00:10:02,183
Jamal died.
161
00:10:03,650 --> 00:10:06,724
Oh, Mrs Dowari.
Sorry, I thought you knew.
162
00:10:06,725 --> 00:10:11,133
He had an acute fungal infection
in his lungs from the damp,
163
00:10:11,976 --> 00:10:15,868
and he died on
the 22nd of February, 2021.
164
00:10:15,869 --> 00:10:18,191
Two days before his second birthday.
165
00:10:19,276 --> 00:10:22,787
- I'm so, so sorry. May Allah comfort you.
- Thank you.
166
00:10:22,788 --> 00:10:25,567
Do you mind if I just ask
one last question. Please?
167
00:10:25,567 --> 00:10:26,463
Of course.
168
00:10:26,463 --> 00:10:29,732
I presume that Asif wasn't
interpreting for you any more,
169
00:10:29,733 --> 00:10:31,651
- in your new place?
- No.
170
00:10:31,652 --> 00:10:33,326
But you kept in contact
with each other?
171
00:10:33,326 --> 00:10:35,988
Very much so,
he had become a valued friend.
172
00:10:35,989 --> 00:10:38,852
And I'm assuming that he knew about
your son's death?
173
00:10:39,176 --> 00:10:43,029
After our family,
he was the first person we told.
174
00:11:17,578 --> 00:11:20,918
OK, so, obviously, we need
to speak to Asif again.
175
00:11:20,943 --> 00:11:23,167
Yeah. The timing's just too
coincidental, isn't it?
176
00:11:23,192 --> 00:11:24,283
Agreed.
177
00:11:24,433 --> 00:11:26,624
- Fran?
- We have triangulation.
178
00:11:26,624 --> 00:11:27,835
Excellent!
179
00:11:27,836 --> 00:11:31,536
OK, so, if you look on the 22nd,
that's the Monday,
180
00:11:31,536 --> 00:11:33,248
data puts Cooper in Brighton,
181
00:11:33,273 --> 00:11:34,975
which checks out with his desk diary -
182
00:11:34,976 --> 00:11:36,296
he was meeting snack suppliers.
183
00:11:36,297 --> 00:11:38,074
- Yeah.
- Then back in Bow, in the evening,
184
00:11:38,099 --> 00:11:39,638
where he calls a local takeaway.
185
00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:40,971
Yes, got that.
186
00:11:40,972 --> 00:11:44,831
Then the 23rd, he seems to spend
most of the day in Bow,
187
00:11:44,832 --> 00:11:47,139
presumably working in or above the pub.
188
00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:49,462
OK. Or at least his phone
spent most of the day in Bow.
189
00:11:49,463 --> 00:11:50,695
Well, yeah.
190
00:11:51,307 --> 00:11:54,239
But 13:37 on the 24th,
191
00:11:54,239 --> 00:11:56,738
he makes the call
to the brewery woman to cancel
192
00:11:56,738 --> 00:12:00,511
the four o'clock meeting,
and that call is made in Ilford.
193
00:12:00,738 --> 00:12:02,270
Where was Marty Baines' flat?
194
00:12:02,295 --> 00:12:03,611
- Ilford.
- OK.
195
00:12:03,636 --> 00:12:05,826
So on the day he is reported missing,
196
00:12:05,851 --> 00:12:08,586
we have Cooper maybe meeting
Marty Baines.
197
00:12:08,586 --> 00:12:09,300
Maybe.
198
00:12:09,301 --> 00:12:11,052
And did you actually speak to
the brewery person
199
00:12:11,053 --> 00:12:12,603
- who got the voicemail?
- Yes.
200
00:12:12,604 --> 00:12:14,432
She said it was definitely Cooper.
201
00:12:14,433 --> 00:12:16,580
OK. So we know he's alive on the 24th.
202
00:12:16,580 --> 00:12:18,813
Well, yeah, probably.
203
00:12:19,092 --> 00:12:20,416
How do you mean?
204
00:12:20,561 --> 00:12:22,274
There's just this weird thing.
205
00:12:22,501 --> 00:12:25,322
With the voicemail he left her,
she said he called her "babe".
206
00:12:25,322 --> 00:12:26,082
Babe?
207
00:12:26,155 --> 00:12:28,424
She said the message was
something like, um,
208
00:12:28,762 --> 00:12:31,534
"Sorry, babe, can't make today now,
I'll call you."
209
00:12:31,534 --> 00:12:34,975
OK. And do we definitely know
that they were just work colleagues?
210
00:12:34,976 --> 00:12:36,548
I mean,
given what we do know about him.
211
00:12:36,549 --> 00:12:38,452
Oh, yeah. She said they were
definitely just colleagues
212
00:12:38,452 --> 00:12:42,384
and that his language
was inappropriate, so...
213
00:12:43,221 --> 00:12:44,379
I don't know.
214
00:12:44,663 --> 00:12:47,696
Something about the timing
of all this is just off.
215
00:12:47,721 --> 00:12:49,707
The dodgy number plates,
216
00:12:50,006 --> 00:12:51,641
- this message...
- Mm.
217
00:12:51,641 --> 00:12:53,287
- ..something...
- Yeah.
218
00:12:53,445 --> 00:12:55,171
One to ponder.
219
00:12:56,062 --> 00:12:58,490
Uh... OK, listen, thanks, guys.
220
00:13:03,942 --> 00:13:05,780
- Hey.
- Hi, love. Hi.
221
00:13:05,781 --> 00:13:08,070
Um, Steve's been here,
he took his stuff.
222
00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:10,590
- Yeah, I know, I said he could.
- No... No, it's not that.
223
00:13:10,591 --> 00:13:13,221
It's not that, Jess,
I'm just a bit worried about him.
224
00:13:13,222 --> 00:13:15,448
- He's saying some bad things.
- What things?
225
00:13:15,448 --> 00:13:17,437
Like how he's messed up his whole life
226
00:13:17,438 --> 00:13:18,991
and he can't see a way forward.
227
00:13:18,992 --> 00:13:20,174
Is he still there?
228
00:13:20,175 --> 00:13:22,125
No, he left about ten minutes ago.
229
00:13:22,236 --> 00:13:24,670
- He's found a rental round the corner.
- Where?
230
00:13:24,671 --> 00:13:26,468
Um, Larford Street.
231
00:13:26,469 --> 00:13:28,725
Jesus, that's literally
the next fucking road.
232
00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,470
I mean... he wouldn't do
anything silly, would he?
233
00:13:31,471 --> 00:13:33,840
He's not... He's not like that, is he?
234
00:13:33,841 --> 00:13:35,976
- He's not that sort of person?
- No, look, uh,
235
00:13:35,976 --> 00:13:38,301
I'll call him, or I'll drop by
on the way home.
236
00:13:38,326 --> 00:13:40,240
- What number was it again?
- 25.
237
00:13:40,241 --> 00:13:42,506
Right, OK. Um, listen, Mum,
I've gotta go.
238
00:13:42,507 --> 00:13:44,410
I'll talk to you later.
OK. Thanks. Bye.
239
00:13:45,968 --> 00:13:47,719
So, how was it?
240
00:13:47,846 --> 00:13:49,523
I don't know if you're aware of this,
241
00:13:49,523 --> 00:13:50,837
but it rains a lot in Ireland?
242
00:13:50,837 --> 00:13:52,645
You're joking (?)
I've never noticed (!)
243
00:13:53,971 --> 00:13:57,051
Listen, are you OK to go straight
into an interview with Asif Syed?
244
00:13:57,076 --> 00:13:58,728
We've only got two hours left on
the clock.
245
00:13:58,728 --> 00:13:59,732
Yeah. Let's go for it.
246
00:13:59,733 --> 00:14:01,980
And then it'll be straight into
Marty Baines.
247
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,016
Murray sent you
the Dowari statement, I think?
248
00:14:05,016 --> 00:14:07,341
He did, and I've got an idea
on how to approach this.
249
00:14:07,342 --> 00:14:08,679
Great. Fire away.
250
00:14:09,552 --> 00:14:10,672
Since we last spoke,
251
00:14:10,672 --> 00:14:13,685
we have new information
on the Dowari family.
252
00:14:14,675 --> 00:14:16,341
Do you remember Jamal Dowari?
253
00:14:18,305 --> 00:14:19,534
No comment.
254
00:14:20,574 --> 00:14:25,782
Well, according to his mum, Nahal,
you absolutely adored him.
255
00:14:26,843 --> 00:14:29,508
You bought him a play mat
for his first birthday, you...
256
00:14:30,252 --> 00:14:33,297
baby-sat him on numerous occasions...
257
00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:35,073
do you remember that?
258
00:14:36,599 --> 00:14:37,950
No comment.
259
00:14:38,656 --> 00:14:41,350
I'm sorry to bring this up because
I can see you're getting upset,
260
00:14:41,351 --> 00:14:42,678
but do you remember...
261
00:14:43,005 --> 00:14:45,039
what caused little Jamal's death?
262
00:14:47,198 --> 00:14:48,198
No comment.
263
00:14:48,223 --> 00:14:49,586
I think you do remember...
264
00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:51,525
because you were at the hospital,
265
00:14:51,526 --> 00:14:54,085
helping the Dowari family
understand what was happening and
266
00:14:54,085 --> 00:14:55,836
speaking to the doctors, weren't you?
267
00:14:59,140 --> 00:15:00,147
No comment.
268
00:15:02,049 --> 00:15:04,430
You know he died of a fungal infection,
269
00:15:04,753 --> 00:15:06,657
almost certainly caused by
the conditions
270
00:15:06,658 --> 00:15:08,125
in Gerard Cooper's flat.
271
00:15:10,752 --> 00:15:11,956
No comment.
272
00:15:12,466 --> 00:15:14,365
Do you remember the day he died, Asif?
273
00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:16,987
He died on the 22nd of February, 2021,
274
00:15:17,012 --> 00:15:20,014
just two days before
his second birthday...
275
00:15:20,852 --> 00:15:24,294
..and less than 48 hours before
Gerard Cooper disappeared.
276
00:15:27,599 --> 00:15:29,968
So, listen,
let me tell you where we are.
277
00:15:30,978 --> 00:15:33,817
I think you're in a bit of a... panic.
278
00:15:34,899 --> 00:15:38,542
I think you see your whole world
collapsing - your citizenship,
279
00:15:38,542 --> 00:15:41,659
your relationship,
your whole life in the UK.
280
00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:44,984
And the truth is,
if you do remain silent,
281
00:15:45,009 --> 00:15:47,811
we would be obliged to seek
the authority to charge you
282
00:15:47,812 --> 00:15:49,484
with the car park assault,
283
00:15:49,484 --> 00:15:53,164
despite us knowing that
Gerard Cooper was a violent man
284
00:15:53,164 --> 00:15:56,144
you may well have had
to defend yourself against.
285
00:15:56,145 --> 00:15:57,457
For your information,
286
00:15:57,457 --> 00:15:59,480
I've spoken to
the police at Barnstable,
287
00:15:59,972 --> 00:16:03,120
and they will not be charging you
with any immigration offences.
288
00:16:03,586 --> 00:16:05,963
Your partner has taken
full responsibility for that.
289
00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:08,438
So we would love to be able
to eliminate you
290
00:16:08,439 --> 00:16:10,145
from our enquiries as well.
291
00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:12,630
We suspect you're a good man, Asif,
but...
292
00:16:14,685 --> 00:16:16,477
..you need to help us here.
293
00:16:16,478 --> 00:16:18,349
Help us help you.
294
00:16:30,578 --> 00:16:32,254
A few weeks
295
00:16:32,775 --> 00:16:34,879
after Jamal first got sick,
296
00:16:35,123 --> 00:16:36,775
in December, I...
297
00:16:37,535 --> 00:16:41,598
I went to see Cooper at his pub
doing a lunch for the homeless.
298
00:16:44,433 --> 00:16:45,811
And there he was...
299
00:16:47,518 --> 00:16:49,453
..serving food and...
300
00:16:50,073 --> 00:16:52,680
handing out
clothes and presents, and...
301
00:16:56,937 --> 00:16:58,398
..he was brilliant.
302
00:17:00,371 --> 00:17:03,616
Kind, funny, generous and just...
303
00:17:04,861 --> 00:17:06,181
just lovely.
304
00:17:10,025 --> 00:17:12,665
Which is when I realised...
305
00:17:14,164 --> 00:17:16,376
..he could be empathetic,
306
00:17:17,598 --> 00:17:20,594
he did have the capacity
for compassion, he just...
307
00:17:22,627 --> 00:17:25,354
..he just chose not to show it to us.
308
00:17:26,865 --> 00:17:30,162
Because he'd stopped seeing us...
309
00:17:31,419 --> 00:17:32,715
..as human.
310
00:17:33,852 --> 00:17:36,532
We had "swarmed over" in our "hordes".
311
00:17:39,286 --> 00:17:41,989
He saw us as... vermin.
312
00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:47,774
The day Jamal got admitted,
313
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:49,649
I went to see Cooper that night.
314
00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:52,729
I'd taken a... a photo of Jamal
on a drip,
315
00:17:52,729 --> 00:17:55,063
and my intention was just to show him,
316
00:17:55,235 --> 00:17:58,450
to shame him,
and naively, I thought maybe...
317
00:17:58,450 --> 00:18:00,123
maybe it would change him.
318
00:18:00,415 --> 00:18:04,566
His reaction at first
was to intimidate me physically,
319
00:18:04,567 --> 00:18:07,075
pushing and shoving cos he was a bully.
320
00:18:07,075 --> 00:18:08,458
And when that didn't work,
321
00:18:08,459 --> 00:18:11,290
because why would it
with someone like me,
322
00:18:12,182 --> 00:18:14,483
he actually tried to hit me.
323
00:18:14,863 --> 00:18:16,035
I mean, he was out of shape,
324
00:18:16,035 --> 00:18:18,523
and I put him down with two punches,
but...
325
00:18:19,971 --> 00:18:21,608
..that was it.
326
00:18:22,867 --> 00:18:27,518
I walked away leaving him groaning
on the ground but very much alive.
327
00:18:55,788 --> 00:18:58,363
So what were you doing
in Juliet Cooper's house, Marty?
328
00:18:58,364 --> 00:18:59,848
I wanted to speak to Taylor.
329
00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:01,879
Right.
And what did you want to say to her?
330
00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:05,024
I wanted to offer her
my sincere condolences for her loss.
331
00:19:05,025 --> 00:19:07,909
You broke into her house late
at night to offer your condolences?
332
00:19:07,910 --> 00:19:09,160
Yes, I did.
333
00:19:10,438 --> 00:19:12,853
You had a screwdriver on you, Marty,
in your bag
334
00:19:12,854 --> 00:19:15,053
and a hammer in your hand
when we intercepted you.
335
00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:17,671
Marty Baines,
lock-breaker extraordinaire.
336
00:19:17,672 --> 00:19:19,822
So you've broken into
her home before, haven't you?
337
00:19:20,086 --> 00:19:22,059
- Uh, yes, I have.
- Where was that?
338
00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:24,316
- Above the pub.
- Why'd you do that?
339
00:19:25,614 --> 00:19:28,119
- To give her dad a right sorting out.
- Marty.
340
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,456
- You wanted to do violence to him?
- Uh, yes, I did.
341
00:19:32,274 --> 00:19:33,936
Punch him on the hooter.
342
00:19:34,978 --> 00:19:35,926
OK.
343
00:19:36,398 --> 00:19:39,430
So we know that Taylor talked you
out of doing anything that day,
344
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:42,761
- but did you later change your mind?
- No. I did not.
345
00:19:42,762 --> 00:19:45,390
At a later date,
did you get angry again
346
00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:48,053
about what he did to you,
and specifically to your dad,
347
00:19:48,054 --> 00:19:49,941
- and attack him?
- No, I did not.
348
00:19:49,941 --> 00:19:52,422
- Did you kill him, Marty?
- No man has the right
349
00:19:52,423 --> 00:19:54,739
to take another man's life,
DI Sunil Khan.
350
00:20:00,235 --> 00:20:01,806
Can we talk to you about Ilford?
351
00:20:01,807 --> 00:20:04,108
- I lived in Ilford.
- Yes, we know.
352
00:20:04,281 --> 00:20:06,574
We wanted to ask you about
a particular day.
353
00:20:06,575 --> 00:20:07,898
- What day?
- A day...
354
00:20:07,924 --> 00:20:10,855
we think that
Gerry Cooper was in Ilford as well.
355
00:20:11,081 --> 00:20:13,237
In 2021, in February,
356
00:20:13,238 --> 00:20:15,867
we wanted ask you if you remember
meeting him in Ilford?
357
00:20:15,868 --> 00:20:17,239
I never met him in Ilford.
358
00:20:17,239 --> 00:20:18,788
- Are you sure?
- Yes, I'm sure.
359
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:21,260
- He never came to your flat?
- He never came to my flat.
360
00:20:21,261 --> 00:20:24,614
Cos we have a record of
a phone call he made from Ilford
361
00:20:24,615 --> 00:20:27,249
on the day we think
he might have disappeared.
362
00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:30,462
- What day is this?
- The 24th of February, 2021.
363
00:20:30,463 --> 00:20:33,560
On the 24th of February,
I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches
364
00:20:33,561 --> 00:20:36,250
for breakfast, watched Lorraine
and Homes Under The Hammer,
365
00:20:36,251 --> 00:20:38,619
before walking to City Airport
to watch for planes.
366
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:40,842
I returned to my flat at 20:55
367
00:20:40,843 --> 00:20:43,474
in time for Kirstie and Phil
on Love It Or List It.
368
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,536
That's very detailed, Marty.
369
00:20:47,536 --> 00:20:50,070
Can I ask you why
you have never told us this before?
370
00:20:50,071 --> 00:20:51,667
You never asked me.
371
00:20:55,817 --> 00:20:58,774
Out of interest, can I ask you
what you did on the 23rd?
372
00:20:58,775 --> 00:21:01,786
On the 23rd of February,
I had Coco Pops and tinned peaches
373
00:21:01,786 --> 00:21:04,395
for breakfast, watched Lorraine
and Homes Under The Hammer,
374
00:21:04,396 --> 00:21:06,704
before walking to City Airport
to watch for planes.
375
00:21:06,704 --> 00:21:11,338
I returned to my flat at 20:35
for The Real CSI at 21:00.
376
00:21:25,652 --> 00:21:28,783
I'd put good money on him being on
that airport CCTV
377
00:21:28,784 --> 00:21:30,863
- exactly when he said he was.
- Mm.
378
00:21:30,888 --> 00:21:31,979
Boss?
379
00:21:32,309 --> 00:21:34,098
The cyclist's daughter dropped
his diary in.
380
00:21:34,123 --> 00:21:35,126
Oh, yeah?
381
00:21:35,389 --> 00:21:37,623
Like he said,
it was 3:30 in the morning
382
00:21:37,624 --> 00:21:41,860
when he witnessed the disposal,
but it was 3:30 on the 24th.
383
00:21:41,861 --> 00:21:43,070
No way.
384
00:21:43,071 --> 00:21:45,286
Which obviously begs
a number of questions.
385
00:21:45,286 --> 00:21:48,165
- Yeah, just a few.
- Yeah. The most obvious one of which...
386
00:21:48,722 --> 00:21:51,865
is how the hell does a man leave
a voicemail on someone's phone...
387
00:21:52,687 --> 00:21:55,372
..when his dismembered body
had been thrown into the marsh
388
00:21:55,372 --> 00:21:56,896
ten hours before?
389
00:22:09,628 --> 00:22:11,034
So, these...
390
00:22:11,035 --> 00:22:13,851
according to DVLA,
are the five number plates
391
00:22:13,851 --> 00:22:17,163
at the time of the murder
of the cars of Asif Syed,
392
00:22:17,163 --> 00:22:20,853
Melinda Ricci, Marty Baines's dad,
Gerry Cooper and Juliet Cooper.
393
00:22:20,854 --> 00:22:23,965
All pretty anonymous saloons.
And this...
394
00:22:26,228 --> 00:22:27,826
..is our murder car.
395
00:22:28,174 --> 00:22:29,911
Now, it's possible, I guess,
396
00:22:29,936 --> 00:22:31,705
that the killer could've acquired
fake plates,
397
00:22:31,705 --> 00:22:33,387
but that would have required
a lot of prior planning,
398
00:22:33,388 --> 00:22:35,364
- suggests premeditation.
- This wasn't premeditated.
399
00:22:35,364 --> 00:22:37,652
No. So my best guess is
they altered their own plates
400
00:22:37,653 --> 00:22:39,510
with marker pen or tape or whatever.
401
00:22:39,817 --> 00:22:44,317
Changed an F to an E,
a three or a six to an eight, etc.
402
00:22:44,318 --> 00:22:46,230
So basically,
which of these five plates
403
00:22:46,255 --> 00:22:48,160
could most easily be changed
to match that one?
404
00:22:48,185 --> 00:22:49,182
Exactly.
405
00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:51,394
So, who's good at Wordle?
406
00:22:52,213 --> 00:22:54,965
It's obviously not that one
or that one.
407
00:22:55,034 --> 00:22:56,569
Can't be this one, either.
408
00:22:56,594 --> 00:22:58,832
- Yeah...
- Well, two Fs can be Es.
409
00:22:58,832 --> 00:23:00,204
Yeah, and that P's gotta be that B.
410
00:23:00,204 --> 00:23:02,035
Yeah, so it's obviously this one,
isn't it?
411
00:23:02,036 --> 00:23:05,618
The M stays the same,
the C changes to an O.
412
00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:08,041
The five to a six.
Seven stays the same.
413
00:23:08,042 --> 00:23:09,527
Two Es and a B.
414
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,448
So, whose car is that?
415
00:23:12,449 --> 00:23:15,408
That car belonged to...
416
00:23:19,062 --> 00:23:20,617
..Juliet Cooper.
417
00:23:45,041 --> 00:23:46,794
- Hass?
- Asif?
418
00:24:00,748 --> 00:24:02,134
That was the hospital.
419
00:24:02,384 --> 00:24:04,403
Marty's mum's recovered consciousness.
420
00:24:04,584 --> 00:24:06,079
And she just told a nurse
421
00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:07,918
that she stirred the pills
into her own drink.
422
00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:11,239
- Why?
- Said she felt a burden.
423
00:24:11,701 --> 00:24:15,035
Said she felt that he would get
better help without her.
424
00:24:19,367 --> 00:24:21,777
Right,
aside from the burglary dwelling,
425
00:24:21,837 --> 00:24:24,322
- let's release him NFA.
- Yep.
426
00:24:24,468 --> 00:24:26,501
- He'll need to be with her.
- Mm-hm.
427
00:24:26,526 --> 00:24:28,526
Has anyone seen DI Khan?
428
00:24:30,821 --> 00:24:32,401
I really like you.
429
00:24:33,615 --> 00:24:35,936
I always have, but you were taken.
430
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:38,902
But over the last year or so,
431
00:24:38,903 --> 00:24:41,467
as we've got to know
each other better, it's just...
432
00:24:42,776 --> 00:24:44,083
..it's just been lovely.
433
00:24:45,111 --> 00:24:47,045
And then the other night happened.
434
00:24:47,045 --> 00:24:51,690
And then you rang and rang.
And I... ran.
435
00:24:53,239 --> 00:24:55,291
As I always have, actually.
436
00:24:57,762 --> 00:24:59,606
So I'm just gonna say
what I'm gonna say,
437
00:24:59,606 --> 00:25:02,918
and then if you don't mind,
I'm gonna go back to work, and...
438
00:25:04,117 --> 00:25:06,866
..you can absorb it
without the pressure of me...
439
00:25:07,743 --> 00:25:08,925
looking at you?
440
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,919
You're not a serial killer, are you?
441
00:25:23,713 --> 00:25:28,179
24 years ago, I was in
a relationship with a bloke, and...
442
00:25:29,081 --> 00:25:33,742
we'd been together three
pretty unhappy years, and then...
443
00:25:35,084 --> 00:25:40,163
..one day, I went out to get
some fags and never came back.
444
00:25:41,643 --> 00:25:42,908
Which was...
445
00:25:43,438 --> 00:25:44,460
fine.
446
00:25:44,558 --> 00:25:46,016
Except...
447
00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:50,410
..we had a daughter
448
00:25:51,235 --> 00:25:53,195
who I also left behind.
449
00:25:54,655 --> 00:25:56,570
And who, for many
450
00:25:56,785 --> 00:25:58,744
complicated reasons, I...
451
00:25:58,901 --> 00:26:00,196
haven't seen...
452
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:02,376
since.
453
00:26:04,075 --> 00:26:05,780
Which is obviously quite a thing.
454
00:26:07,894 --> 00:26:09,674
That's what I thought you should know.
455
00:26:11,062 --> 00:26:12,979
And obviously,
there were mental health issues
456
00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:14,341
and court cases and...
457
00:26:14,776 --> 00:26:16,442
lots and lots of pain...
458
00:26:16,443 --> 00:26:18,490
and I'm sure you have
a million questions,
459
00:26:18,490 --> 00:26:19,746
but as I say,
460
00:26:19,956 --> 00:26:21,841
I'm gonna head back to work now,
461
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:25,803
but I just wanted you
to know that, and, um...
462
00:26:26,583 --> 00:26:27,579
and...
463
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:30,012
..yeah.
464
00:26:31,479 --> 00:26:32,943
Call me if you still...
465
00:26:33,657 --> 00:26:35,645
- Yeah.
- Hey. Leanne...
466
00:26:51,075 --> 00:26:52,546
Jess. What's happening?
467
00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:55,470
The thing that tripped us up
468
00:26:55,471 --> 00:26:57,845
was the voice message left on the 24th.
469
00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:01,751
But I'm guessing that was
an old message left for you,
470
00:27:01,778 --> 00:27:05,035
and you just replayed it
into his phone mic,
471
00:27:05,035 --> 00:27:06,948
as you used HIS phone...
472
00:27:07,306 --> 00:27:08,900
to call the brewery colleague.
473
00:27:10,107 --> 00:27:12,781
Nice touch driving to Ilford
to make the call, though.
474
00:27:12,806 --> 00:27:13,708
Mm.
475
00:27:14,305 --> 00:27:17,264
And when we track down your old car,
476
00:27:17,265 --> 00:27:20,442
I wonder if we'll find residue
of the marker pen or gaffer tape
477
00:27:20,467 --> 00:27:22,297
you used on the number plate?
478
00:27:24,628 --> 00:27:27,298
No jury would ever convict
on any of that.
479
00:27:27,648 --> 00:27:29,181
Oh, I don't know.
480
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:33,248
But we'll also speak to your daughter.
481
00:27:34,131 --> 00:27:35,998
And I have a strong feeling
482
00:27:35,999 --> 00:27:38,811
that based on your intense desire
for us not to
483
00:27:39,806 --> 00:27:41,857
that she saw something that night.
484
00:27:44,488 --> 00:27:45,442
Or...
485
00:27:46,122 --> 00:27:47,615
you can tell us what happened...
486
00:27:48,761 --> 00:27:52,523
..and maybe... maybe
we don't need to involve Taylor.
487
00:28:01,534 --> 00:28:02,889
I'll tell you.
488
00:28:13,638 --> 00:28:16,498
The marriage had been broken
many years.
489
00:28:17,205 --> 00:28:20,997
He'd changed so much
from the person I met in 2009.
490
00:28:21,946 --> 00:28:23,922
I guess we both changed.
491
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,198
The further he lurched to the right,
492
00:28:28,223 --> 00:28:30,125
the more I'd provoke him...
493
00:28:30,358 --> 00:28:31,928
mostly deliberately.
494
00:28:32,372 --> 00:28:33,545
And end up...
495
00:28:34,491 --> 00:28:36,491
..loathing him all afresh.
496
00:28:37,873 --> 00:28:40,233
- Why didn't you just separate?
- Taylor.
497
00:28:40,511 --> 00:28:41,637
Our finances.
498
00:28:41,638 --> 00:28:45,128
The pandemic. Inertia.
There were always reasons.
499
00:28:45,129 --> 00:28:46,678
Bad ones, but reasons.
500
00:28:47,704 --> 00:28:48,854
And so...
501
00:28:50,324 --> 00:28:51,414
..how did it end?
502
00:28:55,917 --> 00:28:58,237
It was the night of the 22nd.
503
00:28:59,550 --> 00:29:00,928
I was cooking.
504
00:29:01,419 --> 00:29:03,065
Making stuff for the freezer.
505
00:29:03,434 --> 00:29:08,243
And... he got back late,
after 11, drunk, and...
506
00:29:08,638 --> 00:29:11,057
told me he'd be out on the 24th.
507
00:29:12,757 --> 00:29:14,159
I reminded him...
508
00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:18,641
sarcastically that that was our
wedding anniversary, and he...
509
00:29:20,124 --> 00:29:22,613
..spewed out some misogyny or other,
510
00:29:22,638 --> 00:29:25,208
and we started to go at each other.
511
00:29:25,209 --> 00:29:28,248
Taylor was deep asleep upstairs,
thank God.
512
00:29:29,228 --> 00:29:32,838
And as usual,
when I bested him verbally,
513
00:29:33,054 --> 00:29:37,308
which I always did
cos it turns out he was thick...
514
00:29:38,314 --> 00:29:40,290
..he'd start getting physical -
515
00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:43,026
pushing me and grabbing my hair.
516
00:29:43,518 --> 00:29:47,916
So, I'd gone to the kitchen table
to try to de-escalate things.
517
00:29:47,941 --> 00:29:50,641
I sat down to continue chopping and...
518
00:29:51,794 --> 00:29:55,385
..without any warning,
he punched the back of my head...
519
00:29:56,303 --> 00:29:57,672
..really hard.
520
00:29:58,335 --> 00:29:59,685
And it was...
521
00:30:00,963 --> 00:30:08,115
..so painful and such a shock
that something in me snapped,
522
00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:10,386
and I-I...
523
00:30:11,567 --> 00:30:13,901
..I span round in my chair...
524
00:30:14,843 --> 00:30:18,497
..and... and sort of punched
the top of his leg...
525
00:30:20,294 --> 00:30:21,433
..with a little...
526
00:30:21,976 --> 00:30:23,338
paring knife...
527
00:30:23,517 --> 00:30:24,927
still in my hand.
528
00:30:26,403 --> 00:30:28,396
And he must have been
so surprised himself,
529
00:30:28,397 --> 00:30:30,250
he didn't even come after me
as I bolted,
530
00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:32,164
and I managed to get
to the downstairs loo
531
00:30:32,165 --> 00:30:33,445
and lock myself in.
532
00:30:33,445 --> 00:30:37,365
And I could hear him shouting at me,
calling me a bitch and a whore,
533
00:30:37,365 --> 00:30:41,672
and telling me
what he was going to do to me.
534
00:30:44,941 --> 00:30:48,338
And then I heard him say
he was bleeding badly.
535
00:30:49,941 --> 00:30:51,490
And then it went quiet
536
00:30:52,085 --> 00:30:54,385
for a bit, and... and then he...
537
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,157
..he called my name,
still quite angrily...
538
00:30:59,601 --> 00:31:03,119
and then it just went quiet.
And stayed quiet.
539
00:31:06,743 --> 00:31:09,477
I stayed in the loo for,
I don't know, maybe half an hour.
540
00:31:09,478 --> 00:31:12,187
I didn't come out till I was sure
he'd have calmed down.
541
00:31:15,141 --> 00:31:18,981
I found him on the kitchen floor
in a pool of blood.
542
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,775
Dead.
543
00:31:25,794 --> 00:31:28,499
No good crying
over spilt milk, Mum.
544
00:31:29,628 --> 00:31:31,531
Just want you home now.
545
00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:34,320
That's what we're gonna do, Marty.
546
00:31:34,887 --> 00:31:37,431
Soon as Mum's up and walking,
547
00:31:37,482 --> 00:31:39,719
we'll get her some help at home, OK?
548
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,693
- Yeah?
- Yeah.
549
00:31:41,694 --> 00:31:45,941
Help at home, that's what
we wanted, isn't it? Yeah?
550
00:31:49,461 --> 00:31:52,461
Home sweet home, Mum.
551
00:32:00,254 --> 00:32:01,651
As soon as I...
552
00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:03,922
saw he was dead...
553
00:32:04,682 --> 00:32:06,676
..in that same instant...
554
00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:08,418
I knew...
555
00:32:10,228 --> 00:32:11,601
..I would do...
556
00:32:11,879 --> 00:32:14,118
whatever I needed to do...
557
00:32:14,438 --> 00:32:15,989
to protect my daughter.
558
00:32:16,028 --> 00:32:18,961
I would not... I could not...
559
00:32:19,828 --> 00:32:21,506
leave her alone.
560
00:32:25,347 --> 00:32:27,498
No father, and me in prison.
561
00:32:28,995 --> 00:32:31,127
But I knew I needed to be...
562
00:32:31,828 --> 00:32:35,226
very fucking focused not to get caught.
563
00:32:36,044 --> 00:32:39,071
First up, I used multiple cloths
to mop it up,
564
00:32:39,454 --> 00:32:41,042
put them all into a bucket,
565
00:32:41,042 --> 00:32:43,310
and then everything into
multiple bin liners.
566
00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:47,356
I then stripped all my clothes off,
put them into bin liners,
567
00:32:47,616 --> 00:32:51,516
and then wrapped Gerry in the same
568
00:32:51,517 --> 00:32:55,230
before dragging him into
his office and locking the door.
569
00:32:57,828 --> 00:33:00,626
In the morning,
I took Taylor to school...
570
00:33:03,633 --> 00:33:06,080
..saying Daddy had left
for a work meeting,
571
00:33:06,688 --> 00:33:09,689
and arranged a playdate for her
that evening.
572
00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:13,517
I then went to work,
leaving Gerry's phone on
573
00:33:13,518 --> 00:33:15,152
and charged at home.
574
00:33:16,343 --> 00:33:18,700
My last lecture finished at three,
575
00:33:18,828 --> 00:33:21,343
then I drove home,
stopping first at an internet cafe
576
00:33:21,343 --> 00:33:23,141
to Google the fuck out of stuff,
577
00:33:23,142 --> 00:33:25,561
then a hardware store,
where I bought...
578
00:33:27,336 --> 00:33:30,205
..two new carving knives,
more refuse sacks
579
00:33:30,206 --> 00:33:32,493
and some gaffer tape, with cash.
580
00:33:32,494 --> 00:33:34,249
When I got back to the pub...
581
00:33:36,207 --> 00:33:40,639
..I made sure I had a nice chat
with them all then went upstairs.
582
00:33:44,374 --> 00:33:46,693
I dragged Gerry back into
the kitchen...
583
00:33:49,501 --> 00:33:52,858
..and I cut him up into six pieces.
584
00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:58,565
Took less than an hour.
585
00:34:02,397 --> 00:34:05,294
Minimal blood by this stage, obviously.
586
00:34:07,326 --> 00:34:10,501
Then I wrapped each part
in bin liners, and again,
587
00:34:10,502 --> 00:34:12,539
took off all my clothes,
put them into bin liners,
588
00:34:12,539 --> 00:34:15,604
before showering
and putting on fresh clothes.
589
00:34:16,715 --> 00:34:19,410
I then put Gerry back in his office,
590
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:24,221
locked the door, and drove
to pick up Taylor from her playdate.
591
00:34:29,287 --> 00:34:30,812
When she was in the bath...
592
00:34:34,374 --> 00:34:38,087
..one by one, I put the bits
of Gerry into a big...
593
00:34:38,687 --> 00:34:41,630
holdall and then into
the boot of the car.
594
00:34:41,828 --> 00:34:44,459
I then stirred a herbal sleeping pill
595
00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:46,837
into a cup of hot chocolate
and put Taylor to bed.
596
00:34:48,187 --> 00:34:49,706
After the pub was shut,
597
00:34:50,705 --> 00:34:54,406
I went and changed the number plate
with cut-up pieces of gaffer tape,
598
00:34:54,431 --> 00:34:57,598
and at 2:30 in the morning,
599
00:34:58,075 --> 00:34:59,851
I drove east to the marshes.
600
00:35:08,947 --> 00:35:10,530
And that's what happened.
601
00:35:20,854 --> 00:35:23,478
- Her timeline's wrong.
- Her what?
602
00:35:27,227 --> 00:35:28,702
What? What is it?
603
00:35:34,887 --> 00:35:36,404
There. Right?
604
00:35:36,757 --> 00:35:40,337
On the 22nd,
he calls a takeaway at 19:12,
605
00:35:40,338 --> 00:35:42,376
which is about 100 yards
from their flat.
606
00:35:42,401 --> 00:35:43,494
Yeah?
607
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:45,019
And then...
608
00:35:45,628 --> 00:35:49,423
he gets this text message confirming
the delivery address for the order
609
00:35:49,424 --> 00:35:50,807
as the flat above their pub.
610
00:35:51,806 --> 00:35:54,515
Well, why would she say
that he didn't get home till 11?
611
00:35:54,515 --> 00:35:58,844
Exactly. Why lie about the timing,
if you've confessed to the murder?
612
00:36:00,518 --> 00:36:01,828
Why do you think?
613
00:36:03,207 --> 00:36:04,814
I think you know.
614
00:36:12,301 --> 00:36:15,981
Taylor, you wouldn't be telling us
anything we don't already know.
615
00:36:20,028 --> 00:36:21,875
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, he hit her.
616
00:36:23,169 --> 00:36:24,689
And did you witness it?
617
00:36:26,132 --> 00:36:28,634
I heard it. Lots of times.
618
00:36:29,946 --> 00:36:32,892
And... I saw the bruises on her body.
619
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,961
But then the last row,
I actually did see it, yeah.
620
00:36:38,828 --> 00:36:39,792
OK.
621
00:36:40,431 --> 00:36:42,307
And can you tell us about it?
622
00:36:43,733 --> 00:36:45,083
Look, whatever's happened,
623
00:36:45,868 --> 00:36:48,828
whatever my mum's admitted doing,
624
00:36:48,992 --> 00:36:50,581
it would have only been in
self-defence.
625
00:36:50,582 --> 00:36:52,657
We absolutely know that.
626
00:36:57,538 --> 00:37:01,464
I was... I was just in my bedroom,
doing some homework, um...
627
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:03,824
and I heard him start shouting.
628
00:37:04,333 --> 00:37:05,879
Roughly what time?
629
00:37:06,812 --> 00:37:07,857
Maybe eight?
630
00:37:08,292 --> 00:37:09,243
OK.
631
00:37:09,244 --> 00:37:10,664
So I put my buds in...
632
00:37:12,049 --> 00:37:13,589
..but I could still hear him.
633
00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:17,135
And, um, I could hear
her screaming back at him.
634
00:37:17,136 --> 00:37:20,015
And I don't know why, but this time,
I decided to go downstairs.
635
00:37:20,274 --> 00:37:22,237
And she was on the floor
in the kitchen.
636
00:37:22,432 --> 00:37:23,790
She was on her side,
637
00:37:23,912 --> 00:37:26,256
and she kept trying to get up,
but every time she would, he'd...
638
00:37:26,827 --> 00:37:29,277
bring the heel of his boot down
on her ribs...
639
00:37:30,278 --> 00:37:31,505
really hard.
640
00:37:32,548 --> 00:37:34,659
And, um, she was crying,
641
00:37:35,423 --> 00:37:36,870
and it was horrible.
642
00:37:37,788 --> 00:37:39,649
He had his back to me, and she was...
643
00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,625
faced away, so neither of
them saw me, but...
644
00:37:41,626 --> 00:37:43,483
I just, I wanted to do something
to stop him
645
00:37:43,483 --> 00:37:45,138
because I thought
he was gonna kill her.
646
00:37:45,992 --> 00:37:47,503
So there was this little knife...
647
00:37:47,709 --> 00:37:48,940
on the kitchen table,
648
00:37:48,941 --> 00:37:51,824
and I grabbed it
and sort of jabbed it into his leg.
649
00:37:51,825 --> 00:37:53,708
I'm just gonna have
to quickly caution...
650
00:37:53,709 --> 00:37:57,551
It's fi... It's fine, it's fine.
There's no need. Um, carry on.
651
00:37:58,579 --> 00:38:02,167
So you... you grabbed it,
and you jabbed it in his leg.
652
00:38:04,116 --> 00:38:06,279
Yeah, and he, um,
he cried out in shock.
653
00:38:06,385 --> 00:38:09,665
He swung round, and he saw me,
and he looked so upset.
654
00:38:11,175 --> 00:38:12,051
Um...
655
00:38:12,391 --> 00:38:14,485
But then Mum was back up
on her feet, so she...
656
00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:16,252
grabbed my hand,
and she led me upstairs.
657
00:38:16,277 --> 00:38:17,659
And I just remember looking back...
658
00:38:18,032 --> 00:38:20,991
and seeing him watch me go,
holding the back of his leg,
659
00:38:20,992 --> 00:38:23,190
and he just looked really sad.
660
00:38:23,325 --> 00:38:26,646
And then, my mum ran me
a bath upstairs, and...
661
00:38:27,753 --> 00:38:29,401
..she read with me, and then...
662
00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:31,602
then she stroked me to sleep.
663
00:38:32,992 --> 00:38:36,321
And the next morning, there was a...
a Crunchie by the side of my bed.
664
00:38:37,368 --> 00:38:38,586
And, um...
665
00:38:39,435 --> 00:38:41,283
Mum said that Dad had left it for me
666
00:38:41,284 --> 00:38:43,867
and that he had to leave early
for a work meeting, so...
667
00:38:44,681 --> 00:38:46,836
..I knew he'd forgiven me
for what I'd done.
668
00:38:46,837 --> 00:38:48,448
And, uh...
669
00:38:51,315 --> 00:38:53,181
..did you see him that evening?
670
00:38:55,444 --> 00:38:57,744
No. I had a playdate after school.
671
00:38:59,849 --> 00:39:03,341
And, um, Mum said that he was on
a work call in his office
672
00:39:03,342 --> 00:39:04,995
and that I wasn't to disturb him.
673
00:39:06,461 --> 00:39:09,096
And then the next day
was when he went missing.
674
00:39:14,292 --> 00:39:15,525
Oh, my God.
675
00:39:19,284 --> 00:39:20,496
She doesn't know.
676
00:39:20,822 --> 00:39:21,753
No.
677
00:39:22,116 --> 00:39:24,941
Her mother took her upstairs,
she never even saw him bleeding.
678
00:39:26,168 --> 00:39:29,453
I mean... what do we even do
with that? Just...
679
00:39:30,074 --> 00:39:31,651
What do we do?
680
00:39:35,104 --> 00:39:38,517
OK, so I think
we only really have two options.
681
00:39:40,799 --> 00:39:43,275
We somehow ignore that,
682
00:39:43,541 --> 00:39:45,679
what she just said,
let the mother take the blame.
683
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,399
OK, so Juliet goes self-defence,
gets maybe...
684
00:39:49,399 --> 00:39:51,331
- four years, out in two?
- Yeah.
685
00:39:51,332 --> 00:39:54,620
And then we're liable for
perverting the course of justice.
686
00:39:54,992 --> 00:39:56,714
- Yes.
- Or?
687
00:39:57,692 --> 00:40:00,486
- We tell the CPS.
- What she just told us?
688
00:40:00,486 --> 00:40:02,559
They will almost certainly decide
that charges
689
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,868
- are not in the public interest.
- Almost certainly.
690
00:40:04,868 --> 00:40:06,265
Well, exactly.
691
00:40:06,361 --> 00:40:08,569
And even...
even if they do decide that,
692
00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:11,300
a 14-year-old kid
still has to live with the knowledge
693
00:40:11,301 --> 00:40:13,522
that she killed her own dad.
694
00:40:16,885 --> 00:40:19,230
Do you know what?
This is not our decision to make.
695
00:40:19,615 --> 00:40:22,184
- Who the hell else's is it?
- It's Juliet's.
696
00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:23,865
No.
697
00:40:23,931 --> 00:40:25,817
You do not want the weight
of this on your shoulders.
698
00:40:25,818 --> 00:40:27,348
- Please.
- Jess...
699
00:40:29,005 --> 00:40:30,823
..trust me, you do not.
700
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:35,376
We need to speak to Juliet.
701
00:40:52,726 --> 00:40:54,750
Why would you have interviewed her?
702
00:40:54,832 --> 00:40:56,699
Why would you have done that?
703
00:40:59,344 --> 00:41:01,350
She's been through so much already.
704
00:41:01,350 --> 00:41:04,602
Why couldn't you
just let me protect her?
705
00:41:04,602 --> 00:41:07,643
Because even taking into account
the circumstances, Juliet,
706
00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:10,233
you might still spend two years in jail
707
00:41:10,234 --> 00:41:12,555
- away from your daughter.
- Which is infinitely better
708
00:41:12,580 --> 00:41:15,064
than her spending
a single second there!
709
00:41:15,065 --> 00:41:16,986
Except we don't think she would.
710
00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:21,105
We think a reasonable force argument
would prevail,
711
00:41:21,105 --> 00:41:23,716
and we don't think the CPS
would want to prosecute.
712
00:41:23,717 --> 00:41:27,861
Now, you could then be charged
with unlawful disposal
713
00:41:27,862 --> 00:41:29,898
and perverting the course of justice...
714
00:41:30,858 --> 00:41:32,192
..but again,
715
00:41:32,451 --> 00:41:33,746
given the circumstances,
716
00:41:33,747 --> 00:41:36,318
we don't think the CPS
would want to prosecute,
717
00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:38,743
although that's a risk
you need to consider.
718
00:41:38,743 --> 00:41:41,641
Now obviously, you know,
we can't guarantee anything,
719
00:41:42,188 --> 00:41:44,735
but you can decide what you want to do.
720
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,673
There's...
721
00:41:45,717 --> 00:41:48,443
There's no record
of our conversation with Taylor.
722
00:41:48,444 --> 00:41:51,040
We just wanted to let you know
that you have a choice.
723
00:41:52,107 --> 00:41:53,763
Oh, my God.
724
00:42:05,605 --> 00:42:07,125
What would you do?
725
00:42:12,625 --> 00:42:16,130
So for a number of reasons,
this is my last show.
726
00:42:16,204 --> 00:42:18,176
BNC have said
it's because I've been guilty
727
00:42:18,176 --> 00:42:21,000
of "moral turpitude",
and... maybe I have,
728
00:42:21,306 --> 00:42:23,414
but I think the real reason
I've been fired is because
729
00:42:23,415 --> 00:42:25,687
I've stopped being able to say
what they want me to say
730
00:42:25,687 --> 00:42:26,870
and believe it.
731
00:42:26,992 --> 00:42:29,548
Now, what they've wanted me to say
was generally
732
00:42:29,549 --> 00:42:32,605
what they thought YOU believed.
And of course, you're entitled
733
00:42:32,606 --> 00:42:34,133
to hold whichever views you wish,
734
00:42:34,133 --> 00:42:36,555
it is a free country with free speech,
735
00:42:36,555 --> 00:42:39,346
but I do also want to say this.
736
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,988
Don't you sometimes want to hear
the other side of the debate?
737
00:42:43,261 --> 00:42:45,363
I think a channel like ours should test
738
00:42:45,364 --> 00:42:47,549
and challenge its audience sometimes.
739
00:42:47,814 --> 00:42:50,033
I think we should air
contrary positions
740
00:42:50,033 --> 00:42:52,992
to the ones we know you think
because surely, it's only through
741
00:42:52,992 --> 00:42:55,458
a vigorous but respectful exchange
of opinions,
742
00:42:55,459 --> 00:42:57,610
that new ideas, hopefully better ones,
743
00:42:57,611 --> 00:43:00,244
about how we live our lives today
can begin to develop.
744
00:43:00,591 --> 00:43:03,604
Now, I was pretty angry
when they first fired me,
745
00:43:03,605 --> 00:43:05,266
and I was gonna sit here and give them
746
00:43:05,267 --> 00:43:07,588
and you both barrels tonight.
747
00:43:07,992 --> 00:43:09,120
But you know what?
748
00:43:09,898 --> 00:43:11,139
Enough rage,
749
00:43:11,544 --> 00:43:14,668
enough division, it's really not
getting us anywhere, is it?
750
00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:16,777
So instead I wish you all love,
751
00:43:16,835 --> 00:43:18,261
I wish you all peace,
752
00:43:18,293 --> 00:43:19,798
and for now, from me
753
00:43:19,798 --> 00:43:22,908
it's good night,
good luck, and God bless.
754
00:43:24,885 --> 00:43:26,742
Thank you, Mel.
755
00:43:27,587 --> 00:43:29,449
Coming up later...
756
00:43:49,812 --> 00:43:51,420
What's happening, Mum?
757
00:44:10,044 --> 00:44:12,096
And you'll lose your commission...
758
00:44:12,497 --> 00:44:14,250
- ...Hmm?
- Probably.
759
00:44:15,352 --> 00:44:16,824
Oh, Sam.
760
00:44:17,818 --> 00:44:19,039
Hey, I'm...
761
00:44:19,064 --> 00:44:21,603
not gonna be incarcerated on a barge
762
00:44:21,604 --> 00:44:23,604
for the next God knows
how many months, so...
763
00:44:24,308 --> 00:44:25,658
I've no regrets.
764
00:44:26,376 --> 00:44:28,044
I took you for granted.
765
00:44:30,323 --> 00:44:32,464
And you being able to stay here...
766
00:44:33,404 --> 00:44:37,718
..us being able to be together
is way more important than my job.
767
00:44:41,434 --> 00:44:42,992
And, uh...
768
00:44:50,718 --> 00:44:52,348
Fuck it. Um...
769
00:44:53,912 --> 00:44:56,572
This is not how I planned this, um...
770
00:44:58,405 --> 00:45:00,812
How would you fancy marrying me,
gorgeous man?
771
00:45:03,992 --> 00:45:06,032
- Yes. Yes.
- Oh.
772
00:45:16,178 --> 00:45:18,378
Yep, OK, understood.
773
00:45:18,802 --> 00:45:20,160
OK, I'll tell them.
774
00:45:20,507 --> 00:45:21,841
Thanks. Bye.
775
00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:31,134
Not in the public interest
to charge Taylor.
776
00:45:32,473 --> 00:45:33,473
And Juliet?
777
00:45:34,737 --> 00:45:36,069
Same.
778
00:45:46,807 --> 00:45:48,615
We made a decision
779
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:52,572
Sometimes, that's all you can do.
780
00:45:52,941 --> 00:45:53,981
Yeah.
781
00:45:55,267 --> 00:45:56,825
Let's go tell 'em.
782
00:46:16,381 --> 00:46:17,251
Hey. Mel.
783
00:46:17,276 --> 00:46:18,546
- Hey.
- How are you?
784
00:46:18,618 --> 00:46:20,316
I'm good, thanks, really good.
785
00:46:20,317 --> 00:46:21,828
Not seen you for a few days.
786
00:46:22,287 --> 00:46:24,700
Uh, no, I've been away for a bit.
But I'm back now.
787
00:46:24,878 --> 00:46:27,054
- I'm back.
- Good.
788
00:47:21,807 --> 00:47:24,984
Hi, you've reached Leanne. Please
leave a message after the tone.
789
00:47:26,282 --> 00:47:28,356
Hey, it's me. Um...
790
00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:31,604
so thank you for telling me
what you did.
791
00:47:32,279 --> 00:47:35,414
I'm not sure how you expected me
to react, but...
792
00:47:35,906 --> 00:47:39,442
but you seemed pretty scared, uh,
and I get that.
793
00:47:40,557 --> 00:47:44,690
So let's meet, let's, uh, talk more,
let's get drunk more.
794
00:47:45,118 --> 00:47:47,105
We all have our stories, Lea.
795
00:47:47,807 --> 00:47:51,038
Stuff that we did
that we wish was different.
796
00:47:51,129 --> 00:47:53,672
The people that we were
that we wish we weren't.
797
00:47:54,327 --> 00:47:55,702
God knows I have.
798
00:47:56,330 --> 00:47:57,925
So let's meet.
799
00:47:58,807 --> 00:48:00,459
Yeah, let's talk.
800
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:01,896
Call me, when you're ready.
801
00:48:45,654 --> 00:48:48,702
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