Original subtitles

This programme contains some strong language from the start

MUSIC: "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" by Meat Loaf

# Well, it was long ago and it was far away

# And it was so much better than it is today

# It was long ago and it was far away # Never felt so good

# And it was so much better than it is today It never felt so right

# Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife... #

MUSIC FADES

WIND WHISTLES

So, when people came in, uh,

they were asked to fill out some cards with some questions on 'em.

The first question is this.

When you close your eyes,

and I guess that means when I close my eyes to sing,

how old am I?

SCATTERED LAUGHS

I am as old as the person is in that song.

WHOOPING AND APPLAUSE

And the reason I say that to you is because

I don't listen to myself sing.

I have absolutely no fucking idea what I'm doing.

LAUGHTER

Paradise...

I'm 17.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

MUSIC: "I Got Texas In My Soul" by Tex Williams

# Dallas, Fort Worth, San Angelo

# Houston, Austin or El Paso

# I gotta go Gotta go!

# I got Texas in my soul... #

This here was, uh,

Meat Loaf's house back in the, uh,

late '50s, early '60s, where he grew up in Dallas.

I grew up down the road about five blocks,

and, uh, we were best friends during high school.

His mom was a schoolteacher.

He was an only child.

They were very close.

But, uh, Meat Loaf's house wasn't like a place you'd come

and Mom would fix milk and cookies and you'd sit down, and...

You know, you would come, you would get the car and go,

and, uh, you'd avoid his dad and say hi to Mom

and move ahead.

Growing up in that era in Texas, which was, erm,

much different than, let's say, California or New York.

It was not a place where you wanted to be a rebel.

My father was an alcoholic,

and he would always, uh, beat me up as a kid.

Threw me through a plate glass window, threw me through a door...

Put, you know...

Put me where I had to go to the hospital

and get stitches in my head several times.

Meat grew up in Dallas, Texas,

and, erm, it's a good old boy hometown place,

and a lot of people kind of made fun of him,

cos he was the fat kid,

and, uh, he had to get through that.

One of the stories he used to tell was that's how he got his name,

Meat Loaf, cos he had his initials on his locker, ML,

and ML stood for Marvin Lee, cos that was his name, Marvin Lee Aday.

This is where Meat Loaf got his name, right here.

He was playing defensive line, it was, uh, the coach was lining up

behind him, uh, to show him how to properly stand in his position.

Coaches, you know, they're all Neanderthals,

but it wasn't really enlightened coaching.

Uh, the caveman technique.

Meat stood up to ask a question,

but when he did he turned around

and he happened to step on that coach's foot.

The first thing out of the coach's mouth was,

"You meat loaf son of a gun!"

And that's where his name evolved.

We all knew him as ML, but from that day on everybody called him Meat.

How big was he when he was a kid?

Jesus, he was bigger than three people, you know?

I mean, his thighs were bigger than I was.

He was a rather large individual,

uh, but he was very ambitious, he liked to do things,

he was very music inclined through going through high school.

I think he was in the choir,

along with playing sports. Yeah, you're right.

I think he even was in a bunch of musicals that we had. But, er...

He came out of the box with a lot of presence and a lot of, uh,

a lot of centre stage ability that was just natural.

I think with a lot of great artists there is a sadness,

there is a... they have vulnerability.

Meat would talk about his mom.

You know...

..and I saw pictures of her.

They were kind of similar,

and I think she was his...

she was his haven, you know, his safe place.

And then she passed away

and I don't think he kind of ever recovered from that.

His father was a troubled man.

He had, you know, a disease, alcoholism,

and he lost his wife very early in life,

and, of course, Meat lost his mother.

And when she was gone it became violent.

In a scary way.

See this, uh, gentleman right here?

Uh, that's my dad.

His name was Orvis.

Unbelievable.

HE GASPS EXASPERATEDLY

Orvis!

That's actually worse than Meat.

'He came home drunk and tried to kill me with a butcher knife.'

And that particular day, erm,

because I was fighting for my life,

I actually...

They told me I put him in the hospital.

And I left home with a pair of, erm...

A T-shirt, barefooted, and a pair of, erm, shorts from the football team

that I played in high school with,

and went to my best friend's house in Dallas named Billy Slocum.

Things in Dallas were bad.

He was 20,

and he...

Like he sometimes does, he just decided to disappear.

MUSIC: "Walk On The Wild Side" by Lou Reed

And I went to the airport

and whatever plane was leaving, wherever it was going,

it could have been going to Omaha, that's where I was going.

And the next plane was going to LA.

When I got there I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing there.

Finally a taxi pulled up and says to me, "You want to go somewhere?"

I went, "Yeah, take me to the..."

"..Whisky a Go Go."

He goes, "OK." So I...

..got out of the car, and it was...

It was like a Fellini movie.

It was the most bizarre...

I mean, people, long hair, guys with Afros this big that

when they were walking in the street were blowing like this. I've got...

And they used to call me Hair God in Texas,

because my hair would hang over my ears.

Then he started putting bands together because, erm,

you know, in Texas he had sung pretty much gospel stuff.

So, it was the late '60s.

While he was pursuing, erm, his rock 'n' roll dream, Meat was

doing odd jobs in LA, and one of them was parking cars at a theatre.

And this guy pulls up and gets out of the car,

and he goes, "What are you doing?"

He's like, "What do you mean?"

He goes, "Are you auditioning?"

He goes, "No, I'm..." as Meat would,

"No, I'm parking cars!"

The guy went, "Do you want to audition?"

He goes, "What is it?"

He goes, "It's a show, it's a musical. Can you sing?"

He goes, "Yeah, I can sing." He goes, "Well, come with me."

He goes, "What about all these people?"

He goes, "Don't worry about them." And, bam, he was in Hair.

He wanted rock 'n' roll so badly,

but if you were in Hair,

it was a big, big thing, because people were using it

as a springboard to other stage plays, record deals and movies.

Motown came to me and said, "We'd like to sign you to a contract,"

and I said, "OK."

And they said, "We'd like you to it as a duet."

When Meat was doing Hair,

he hooked up with a woman named Stoney,

and they put together an act, Stoney and Meat Loaf,

and they got signed to Motown Records,

so that was really his first foray into actual recording.

# Ain't no hidden treasure

# In this pot of gold, you see

# Ain't no way for you to make

# No silky purse out of me

# I'm never, ever going to change your ways

# I'll take you as you are... #

But music was getting a little harder rock at that point,

by the time we'd gotten to the early '70s, so, uh,

it wasn't something that made his career catapult.

Tim Curry, thank you for coming along and talking to us. Thank you very much.

The Rocky Horror Show opened in the Royal Court in June 1973,

and has now moved to the King's Road.

There were radio reports

and TV coverage of something that had been put together in England.

And maybe it was the logical extension of Hair,

and that Tim Curry was going to be in a new play, wow!

They asked me to audition for the Rocky Horror Show,

and I knew Richard O'Brien, who wrote everything -

the book, the music and lyrics -

vaguely, because we'd both been in Hair.

He'd been in the touring company, I'd been playing it in London,

and, erm, so he knew of me, and, er, I just went and auditioned

and sang, er, Tutti Frutti by Little Richard.

The Rocky Horror Show in Los Angeles opened in early '74.

The English part of the production came over and, er,

we started casting at that point.

Jim Sharman, the director, brought up Meat Loaf,

and he was positive that he wanted him for Eddie,

both from size and from his voice.

He wanted a combination of theatrical and rock.

So they hired all the cast, and we were just learning the songs.

Meat is basically a Texas boy, you know,

and this was as far from Texas as you could possibly get.

And the two back doors open...

..and Tim Curry comes in

in full make-up, that hair blown up,

wearing that leather jacket,

fish-net stockings with a garter belt and high heels,

and starts singing I'm A Sweet Transvestite.

# I'm just a sweet transvestite

# From transsexual Transylvania... #

Well, this southern boy gets up and goes,

"No fucking way!"

And I leave.

I think it was beyond the edge of Dallas, you know.

I mean, this was an edge that was beyond anything in theatre.

And they lived that lifestyle.

And they're going, "No, you don't understand. It's a comedy."

Eddie is basically the first love

and first experiment of Frank-N-Furter.

So essentially what happens is that

Frank-N-Furter is addressing the assembled Transylvanians,

and suddenly Eddie, Meat Loaf,

breaks out of this vault and has his one big number.

# Woo!

# Whatever happened to Saturday night

# When you dressed up sharp and you felt all right?

# It don't seem the same since cosmic light

# Came into my life... #

He comes out of the vault with this Frankenstein scar

across his head, and he sings Whatever Happened To Saturday Night?

# Hot Patootie, bless my soul

# I really love that rock 'n' roll

# Hot Patootie, bless my soul

# I really love that rock 'n' roll

# Hot Patootie, bless my soul

# I really love that... #

Meat Loaf's entire role in that film was to be the embodiment of

the '50s rock 'n' roll dream -

everything was fabulous, you dressed all right,

you get the girl on your bike

and you sha-la-la-la, all that stuff.

# Hot Patootie, bless my soul

# I really love that rock 'n' roll... #

And he basically drives all the way around the balcony, which is where

all the assembled Transylvanians are, knocking everybody off,

scaring everybody, and in the end, he's chased back into the vault by

Frank-N-Furter, who goes in after him with an axe...

..and then he comes out, the axe is all bloodied and he says...

One from the vaults.

Although it's basically one song, going from the Roxy to

Broadway to the movie, he took it as a starring part.

Meat Loaf really happened off of that.

Around this time in New York, Meat Loaf met Jim Steinman,

an amazing songwriter,

and, uh, as an artist,

as a vocalist who does not write their own material, to find

that songwriter and composer that really wants to write for you

and is inspired to write for you, it's just, like, spectacular!

Jim was just out of college

and had written the music for a show called More Than You Deserve,

which was down at the public theatre at the time.

And I walked into the audition, and there was only one person there.

And it was Steinman.

Jim envisioned himself as this svengali - eccentric,

demanding, very talented,

and always said that his music was kind of a combination of Wagner

and Little Richard,

and, erm, Meat and Jim would put together shows in New York.

Jim's songs were a little over-the-top,

they weren't your normal song.

Is the guy a little bit left of centre?

Always was. Always was a little weird.

In fact, the show used to start with him taking off these

hockey gloves and banging on the piano and all of that, and...

"On a hot summer night,

"would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red rose?!"

On a hot summer night,

would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?

Yes.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

He didn't really start writing for Bat Out Of Hell until,

er, late '74.

I said, "We need a pop song." And he started writing Took The Words.

That was the first one.

Once most of the songs were written, we went out and started

auditioning for record companies to try to get a record deal.

People thought we were crazy but we couldn't demo them.

Er, we would go and sing live.

We would, you know, just give our souls to it,

and the people would be, you know, a few feet away,

and Meat Loaf would sweat on them,

and they would get his spit on them cos they were that close,

and, you know, most people thought it was pretty scary.

I remember one guy sort of running out in fear

because he thought that something bad was going to happen to him.

We'd wander in and they'd throw us right out.

Everybody said the same thing,

about, uh, all the stuff I had been doing for years,

they said it was too dramatic, too theatrical,

too explicitly sexual, a little too violent.

They had been turned down by every single record company in existence.

Nobody wanted to touch... They were kicked out of Clive Davis's office,

they were told, "This music is crap," you know, "Go get a day job."

It was Clive's comments about Jimmy,

"Do you know anything about rock 'n' roll?

"Do you ever listen to rock 'n' roll?

"You know, it's A-B-C, B-C, verse, bridge, chorus,

"verse, bridge, chorus, that's rock 'n' roll.

"And I don't know what you're doing, you're doing A-B-Z-D-G-F-B!"

And then he calls me Ethel Merman.

As they were doing these shows, auditions for record companies in

New York, erm, they caught the eye and caught the ear of Todd Rundgren.

I didn't have the same reaction,

I guess, that most other producers had,

which is, you know, "Where's the single?"

Or, "This guy is kind of hideous,"

you know, "How are we going to make a star out of him?"

And, uh, fortunately, I had a relationship with

Bearsville Records that allowed me to use all of the facilities.

He kind of took it and melded it and moulded it into Bat Out Of Hell.

Steinman wanted this kind of frantic sort of intro to the whole thing,

uh, that centred around this very busy sort of piano riff.

Jim was used to listening to operas that were several hours long, so,

to him, building up a three-minute intro to a song seemed economical.

The opening track goes on for, like,

whatever it is, seven, eight, nine minutes,

and that Bat Out Of Hell track itself plays out like a great big

long overblown retro opera in the manner of something like

Bohemian Rhapsody.

# The sirens are screaming and the fires are howling

# Way down in the valley tonight

# There's a man in the shadows with a gun in his eye

# And a blade shining oh so bright... #

The lyrics of Bat Out Of Hell really told a story,

this vision that was in Jim's mind. When you have a song that says...

# Oh, and down in the tunnel where the deadly are rising

# Oh, I swear I saw a young boy down in the gutter

# He was starting to foam in the heat... #

I mean, it's like...

It's quite a vision,

and that sets up I think the entire vision for the record.

# Oh, baby, you're the only thing in this whole world

# That's pure and good and right... #

Uh, this dystopian world filled with teenage angst

and then turning to the girl and going,

"Baby, you're the only thing in this whole world

"that's good and pure and right." It's just very romantic.

# So we've gotta make the most of our one night together... #

And then to get to the point where he, you know,

"Like a bat out of hell I'll be gone when the morning comes,"

when he's on that motorcycle and he's just taking off...!

# Like a bat out of hell I'll be gone when the morning comes

# When the night is over Like a bat out of hell

# I'll be gone, gone, gone

# Like a bat out of hell I'll be gone when the morning comes

# But when the day is done and the sun goes down

# And the moonlight's shining through

# Then like a sinner before the gates of Heaven

# I'll come crawling on back to you... #

It has resonated all these years.

This is a long time for one album to have that kind of meaning.

It's, you know, it's just really kick-ass!

And we were working on Bat Out Of Hell,

I got to the end of the first chorus, and I said, "Where's the rest of it?"

And he looked at me, he goes, "What do you mean?"

I go, "Well, you've got me into this story, I gotta finish my story."

Here's this guy and he's on this motorcycle,

it's a larger than life creature.

It's actually, it's got a crash in it, you know,

cos he goes faster than any other boy has ever gone.

He rides it, you know, into his death,

into the huge romance that is rock 'n' roll.

# Oh, I can see myself tearing up the road

# Faster than any other boy has ever gone

# And my skin is raw but my soul is ripe

# And no-one's going to stop me now I'm going to make my escape

# But I can't stop thinking of you

# And I never see the sudden curve till it's way too late. #

There are three moments in Bat Out Of Hell, the title track,

when you think the song's finished, and then it starts again!

# Then I'm dying at the bottom of a pit in the blazing sun... #

Then I got him to repeat, "Then I'm dying at the bottom of a pit,"

shooting up the octave, and changing the chords and changing the words.

# Then I'm dying at the bottom of a pit in the blazing sun

# Torn and twisted at the foot of a burning bike... #

The senseless death, the...!

HE LAUGHS

And yet the redemption at the end, uh, of the heart breaking

out of his chest and flying away like a bat out of hell.

# And the last thing I see is my heart

# Still beating

# Still beating

# Breaking out of my body and flying away

# Like a bat out of hell

# Oh, like a bat out of hell...

And when you hear Meat Loaf just pounding out those last,

"Like a bat out of hell," just giving everything in his soul.

# Oh, like a bat out of hell. #

Meat Loaf and Steinman always visualise things

in these theatrical terms

and Bat Out of Hell is almost a little movie in itself.

The way that I think the album is sequenced,

each song tells a story

and somehow the songs are wound together

in this kind of play.

The first song is Bat Out of Hell

and it starts, probably, at the end of somebody's life

and I think the rest of the record is like a sort of a fevered dream

of this person who's dying

and then we see, sort of, him remembering everything in the past.

# Baby, you took the words right out my mouth

# Oh, must have been while you were kissing me. #

And then it goes back and it sort of tells about how he met this girl,

how a romance starts and how beautiful it is and how hot it is.

And then, if you want to see it as a progress,

you get Two Out of Three Ain't Bad, "I want you, I need you,

"but there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you."

# See, I want you I want you

# I need you I need you

# But there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you

# Now don't be sad

# Don't be sad

# Because two out of three ain't bad. #

You have the long, involved narrative

of Paradise by the Dashboard Light.

# Well, I remember every little thing

# As if it happened only yesterday

# Parking by the lake and there was not another car in sight... #

This guy asks this girl up to the lovers' lane

and they start to make out.

# We're gonna go all the way tonight

# We're gonna go all the way tonight, tonight

# We're gonna go all the way tonight...

And, you know, he wanted to go all the way

and she says, "Stop Right there!"

# I gotta know right now

# Before we go any further do you love me...

He's like, "Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, anything.

"I'll do it because I want to get laid,"

and then you go into the future.

# So now I'm praying for the end of time

# To hurry up and arrive

# Because if I've got to spend another minute with you

# I don't think that I can really survive... #

And then they're both praying for the end of time

because, you know, they're not going to split up until death,

so they're both eagerly awaiting death.

These songs that you just go, "Wow."

To sing that... You cannot sing any of those songs without feeling it.

That's why that album works.

That's why that album is still today just...

It's iconic.

# And it was so much better than it is today

# It was long ago and it was far away

# It felt so good and it just felt so right

# And we were glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife. #

Round about '76, '77, punk kicks off,

and the whole ethic of punk is you're no longer having

all that epic, pompous, overblown stuff.

Everybody's doing everything very sort of lo-fi,

and, when Bat Out of Hell came out,

firstly, it had this cover which was basically what looked like

a piece of comic strip art.

Everything was very sort of overblown.

Anything that was sort of big and pompous and rocky

was not the kind of thing that you liked.

You know, it was kind of campy

and I think that's what helped make the songs unique.

At that time, there was no-one close to writing stuff like that

and presenting it to an audience.

So, in the summer of '77, the album is done, it's packaged

and we get ready to go out on tour.

I think that there is probably an air of mystery

and, of course, drama, around the fact of, you know,

Ellen Foley did the record, but she's not on tour.

Ellen and Meat had had a falling out. I got a call from Jim,

when they said they needed someone to be the girl in the band.

First gig is Chicago, opening for Cheap Trick.

And out comes the band with Steinman in his gloves, banging on the piano.

The audience was enraged right from the beginning

and then Meat Loaf comes out and they're like,

"This huge guy in a tuxedo?

"What is that?"

And the first three rows pretty much stood up

and started screaming "Get off the stage you fat fuck!"

It was a slow growth album but the band went on the road a lot.

They kept going out and working the same album.

This is Susan Blond back with you after quite a long absence,

and this is a really exciting interview that we're going to have,

we hope. This is Meat Loaf and this is Jim Steinman,

the guy who writes all the songs.

First time, I had sensed that there was some tension

between Meat and Jim Steinman was on a drive back from Woodstock,

and a discussion started,

"Well what's the album going to be called?"

The cover of the record was "Meat Loaf!" "Jim Steinman."

That was difficult for Jim because I think that, in Jim's mind,

he had just as much, if not more, to do with the success of the record.

I, to this day, completely understand it.

He thought that he would get as much recognition as I would.

And if you saw pictures of him and Steinman together,

Steinman is kind of wincing and hiding.

He just keeps his mouth shut. He writes the material,

he arranges it, you know.

He lets me take it on the stage, and it works out well that way.

It was like Batman and Robin, but he was kind of the Robin guy,

kind of pushing himself out of the spotlight.

His passport from 1968 -

he looks like a skinny leader of a motorcycle gang

and he looks like a motorcycle gang leader now,

only he's not mean enough.

You know, we go on this huge tour, where we're going to England,

we're going to Germany, we're going to Australia...

..and so we're met at the airport by the Hells Angels

and a crowd of people and we drove in limousines to the hotel

with a Hells Angels escort.

You know, the fixation was on Meat and Karla.

Why? Because that's what people saw, and so he may have felt slighted.

How do you describe your style of music?

Let Jimmy describe our style of music.

How do I describe my style of music?

Good, Jimmy, get right in there! Jump on in, Jimmy.

I describe it as feverish, strong,

romantic, violent, rebellious, fun and heroic.

But, at the time, Bat Out of Hell took a long time

to really reach its retail legs.

The first single I don't think did well.

You Took The Words Right Out of My Mouth,

I don't think that kind of made a dent in the top 40.

Radio was only interested in programming four minute songs

and here we are with 10, 12 minute songs.

We continued to play, we continued to tour.

We got to England. The pressure was on

because we knew that the TV shows were the key.

All the label people from England were there.

It was the challenge. Again, another challenge, another chance to show,

"No, it's not just a bunch of hype.

"No, it's not just a fat guy and hamburger helpers. It's magic."

# Well, I remember every little thing

# As if it happened only yesterday

# Parking by the lake and there was not another car in sight... #

It's always been... My entire career has been beauty and the beast

when I walk on a rock 'n' roll stage.

# It never felt so good It never felt so right... #

The Old Grey Whistle Test was energy from the second we got there.

# Hold on tight Hold on tight

# Oh, it's cold and it's lonely in the deep dark night

# I can see paradise by the dashboard light... #

Before we ever performed it live, I turned to Jim and said,

"So, Jim, what exactly is going to happen in here?"

And he said, "You'll figure it out when you get out there."

# Gonna go all the way tonight

# We're gonna go all the way tonight #

The best classes that I ever took

were in improvisational comedy at Second City in Chicago.

# Hey, Karla, sweetheart

# Karla... #

What I learned was being in the now, being in the moment.

Karla was Betty Boop, the way she looked, you know,

and she was the perfect foil for him.

# OK, here we go

# We got a real pressure cooker going here

# Two down, nobody on No score, bottom of the ninth... #

She was gorgeous, she was a great singer,

and she could tolerate being mauled by him on stage every night,

which, literally, was what happened.

# He's not letting up at all He's going to try for second

# The ball has bobbled out at centre... #

I came from the theatre and, to me, it never felt weird.

We never dated, I will tell you that. We were really professional.

# Batter steps up to the plate and here's the pitch and he's going... #

And I did have to explain that to my adorable mother,

"There will be this song where I will, basically,

"be making out with this guy on stage and it's going to be crazy."

# Pitcher glances on and winds up

# And it's butter down the third base line

# The suicide squeezes on

# Here he comes, squeeze play It's going to be close... #

You have to love Jim for writing that part.

For the woman to be able to just say...

# Stop right there

# I gotta know right now

# Before we go any further do you love me?

# Do you love me for ever? Do you need me?

# Will you never leave me?

# Will you make me so happy for the rest of my life?

# Will you take me away and will you make me your wife?

# Do you love me? Will you love me for ever... #

She says, "Will you love me for ever?"

# Will you never leave me? Will you make me so happy... #

"Will you never leave me?" I mean, it's like she wants those answers

before they go all the way, but because it's lyrics by Jim Steinman,

he keeps going and he doesn't just leave it off

at that passionate moment, he tells you what happens in the end.

You know, that they really probably didn't have

that great of a relationship. We were inventing things.

I mean, you know, it was always ad-libbing.

# I'm so sick of you I could spew up

# You already did, fat boy

# Oh, shut up, bitch

# It was long ago and it was far away It never felt so good

# And it was so much better than it is today

# Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife

# And it was so much better than it is today... #

You get your moment. It is that moment to just belt it out

and tell them like it is.

# One of these days

# Fuck you

# I

# Can't

# Take it

# Any

# More. #

And, at the very end when I put my foot up on his back

and he's like bent over and totally wrecked,

we really played it to the nth degree.

Hot fun in the summertime. That's Meat Loaf.

When we came off the road, we were riding high.

It was a success from a popular sense of the record.

Bat Out of Hell, by July '78, was selling 700-800,000 copies a week.

It went from nothing to 7 million

in two and a half months.

And everybody was anticipating the next record.

And we started recording Bad for Good

which was supposed to be Bat Out of Hell II,

and that was in 1979, I think,

and we got about halfway through and then it all just fell apart.

No, there was a whisper, whisper, whisper.

You know, Meat's having a problem.

We tried to get Meat to record some of the scratch vocals...

..and it wasn't happening.

It was frightening.

Jim and I had, in November and about six weeks before,

worked on Bad for Good and I was singing fine

and then he left and went off with somebody, we won't get into this,

I'm not going to get into that.

That really upset me

and, then, I had a nervous breakdown.

And the ultimate solution, at least in Steinman's mind,

was to not wait for Meat, but to sing it himself

and have Corben, the artist who did the cover for Bat Out of Hell

and for Bad for Good, to paint his head on top of a big He-Man body.

I just thought that was hysterical.

# You can't run away for ever

# But there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start

# You want to shut out the night

# You want to shut down the sun

# You want to shut away the pieces of a broken heart. #

Jim was not as good a singer as Meat Loaf.

I mean, that was, you know...

But was Meat Loaf singing as good as Meat Loaf? No.

Jim didn't have that presence.

# I remember everything

# I remember every little thing as if it happened only yesterday

# I was barely 17... #

I know Jim fancied himself as Jim Morrison

and, poetically and in terms of his songwriting,

he was Jim Morrison.

In terms of his presence on stage, he was not.

# And I said, Goddamn it, Daddy

# You know I love you

# But you've got a hell of a lot to learn about rock'n'roll. #

You know, the way I would describe it was that

Steinman was Dr Frankenstein, Meat Loaf was the monster.

The personification of what Steinman needed to do his songs,

because, when Steinman put out the record

that would have been Meat Loaf's, it was a total failure.

Meat Loaf, what kind of a team is this?

What kind of a team is this? Yeah.

It's a team of alcoholics we gathered up in the park.

They sort of play the game.

It's good rehabilitation for them. No, this is a softball team.

What's going to happen after this victory?

What? What's going to happen after this victory?

The whole team's going to get drunk.

After the decision was made that Bad for Good

would not be a Meat Loaf record, it would be a Jim Steinman record,

then Jim wrote a whole new album, Dead Ringer,

which became Meat's second record.

What's happening with the second album?

It's almost finished. I've got my fingers crossed for that one.

# Every night I grab some money and I go down to the bar

# I got my buddies and a beer I got a dream, I need a car

# You got me begging on my knees Come on and throw the dog a bone

# A man, he doesn't live by rock 'n' roll and brew alone

# Baby, baby Rock 'n' roll and brew

# Rock 'n' roll and brew

# They don't mean a thing when I compare them next to you

# Rock 'n' roll and brew Rock 'n' roll and brew

# I know that you and I We got better things to do

# I don't know who you are What you do

# Where you go when you're not around

# I don't know anything about you, baby

# But you're everything I'm dreaming of

# I don't know who you are but you're a real dead ringer for love... #

The whole thing about Dead Ringer is it is like a small pop version

of all the stuff that was going on on Bat Out of Hell.

# Ever since I can remember you've been hanging around this joint

# You've been trying to look away... #

It's nicely worked out because she says this and he says this.

"Ever since I can't remember you've been hanging around,"

"Now you've finally got the point," and they have the thing

and then they actually do lines off each other.

You know, "Da-da," "Da-da," "Da-da-da!"

# Oh, you've got the kind of legs that do more than walk

# I don't have to listen to your whimpering talk

# You got the kind of eyes that do more than see

# You've got a lot of nerve to come on to me

# Oh, you got the kind of legs that do more than drink

# You've got the kind of mind that does less than think

# But since I'm feeling kind of lonely and my defences are low

# Why don't we give it shot and get ready to go?

# I'm looking for anonymous and fleeting satisfaction

# I want to tell my daddy I'll be missing in action... #

It's a three-minute pop song with a story.

"I've been coming to this bar for ages." "Yeah, you have."

"You're not interested." "Yeah, maybe I am." "Oh, all right."

And then they leave together. The end.

# Dead ringer for love

# Dead ringer for love. #

There's a guy looking at England for his music cues sometimes.

Dead Ringer was a massive hit single in England,

but didn't get much airplay in the United States,

and, after Dead Ringer, it was harder for Meat

in the United States.

Hi. I'm Meat Loaf and we're in Miami, Florida.

Oh, stop for one second. Time!

Midnight at the Lost and Found, Tom Dowd was brought in to, well,

maybe we needed to tone it down a bit and get some simpler songs

and all of that stuff,

and, you know, the material just raised his edge

and all of that, maybe good songs, Midnight at the Lost and Found.

We've got to do it again.

It wasn't Bat Out of Hell, it wasn't Two Out of Three,

it wasn't Paradise by the Dashboard Light.

He should've done the Bonnie Tyler song Total Eclipse of the Heart

which was written by Jim Steinman.

# Turn around Every now and then

# I get a little bit lonely and you're never coming round... #

I had Jim Steinman's songs that we were going to do

on Midnight at the Lost and Found and it was being produced by Tom Dowd

and CBS call up Tom Dowd and say,

"Don't record any of these songs. We're not paying for it."

Jim Steinman produced my latest album

and it was really exciting working with him.

He'd worked as a songwriter and producer with Meat Loaf,

and he's sold over 10 million albums around the world,

so I felt really thrilled when he said he wanted to work with me.

# Every now and then I get a little bit lonely

# And you're never coming round...

That's it.

# Every now and then I get a little bit tired

# Of listening to the sound of my tears...

I know Meat would have loved that song

and I know that Meat Loaf always says

that he was offered that song first.

We were recording Midnight at the Lost and Found

and all we had was stupid songs that I write, but I hate what I write.

I can understand that Meat Loaf might have thought,

"Oh, I could've done that song," you know,

but swings and roundabouts!

There it is again, you know, I got it! Ha-ha-ha!

The superstar just became star

or less.

In Europe, he was still huge,

but, in the States, he had burned a lot of bridges

and today's flavour was not Meat Loaf any longer.

This is the house that Meat built,

but this placid suburban retreat has nothing to do

with the Chicago Stock Yards because it was built by another kind of Meat

- a 280 lbs rock'n'roll earthquake named Meat Loaf.

David Sonenberg was Meat's manager when I came on.

Dave was a young lawyer.

When things were falling apart,

Meat Loaf left David Sonenberg for another manager

and David Sonenberg took Meat to court.

He sued him for breach of contract.

Leslie, his ex-wife, and him told me that they got a knock on the door

one day and they opened the door and it was the sheriff.

He said, "Would you please step out of the house?"

And they padlocked the front door.

They couldn't take a thing out of the house

and they got in their car and drove away and they lost everything.

He went through a two-year period

of complete and utter depression and devastation,

and then he woke up one day and went,

"Well, I can't record, but I can perform."

And he got a band together and he started performing

and going up and down the East Coast in little bars

and, you know, he was this huge star and, all of a sudden,

there he is, playing in some blues bar.

No-one of my generation cared or knew

or, you know, like, my dad was some fossil from the '70s

for all the kids I went to school with cared.

And then, in the late 1980s, Meat and Jim started being in touch again

and I think enough time had passed.

I think enough time had passed.

He came out to my house, '89 or '90,

came out to the house and played me I'd Do Anything for Love

and he hadn't finished it.

He goes, "I'm not finished.

"It's a duet and the girl comes in here."

I'm going, "Well, so far, it's great, Jimmy."

His management and his record company and Jim and me

saw lightning in a bottle if the two of them could get together again

and make one more album.

There is a possibility that lightning would strike again

and it did.

And the song comes in... I'm walking. Tell them I'm walking.

..that just blows everybody away. People are calling this a comeback.

Do you consider this a comeback? No, I never went anywhere.

It winds up charting 11 weeks at number one on the Billboard chart,

the Billboard singles charts.

The album, I think, was nine weeks at number one.

# And I would do anything for love

# I'd run right up to hell and back...

That song has act one, act two...

# I would do anything for love...

..intermission, act three, act four, and then I get the finale.

# No, I won't do that

# Would you raise me up? Would you help me down...

And the girl who was supposed to sing it was Ellen Foley,

I believe, and they said,

"Will you go in there and sing that with Meat Loaf?"

"Are you kidding me? Me?"

When Lorraine sang it,

she owned it.

# Will you cater to every fantasy I got?

# Will you hose me down with holy water if I get too hot...

The part I regret is not being in the video.

Gorgeous looking model,

but, as soon as my voice came out,

it made everybody think that she was singing.

# I know the territory I've been around

# It'll all turn to dust and we'll all fall down...

But Meat Loaf and Jim had been so kind to me

and I was on a number one record.

Why are you going to bite the hand that feeds you

when they've given you a great opportunity?

# No, I won't do that. #

And then this came from Bob.

How many movies have you been in?

I have been in 59 films.

CROWD CHEERS

Sh! Don't applaud!

27 of them suck.

So, after Bat Out of Hell II,

Meat Loaf kind of spent more and more time doing screen acting

and he appears in a number of movies

until, finally, towards the end of the '90s,

he has a very significant role in Fight Club.

And this is how I met the big moosy.

His eyes already shrink-wrapped in tears.

Knees together,

those awkward little steps.

My name is Bob. Bob.

At which point, everyone, weirdly, sits up and goes,

"Wow, Meat Loaf is a really decent actor. Who knew?"

It's me. Bob.

Hey, Bob.

What Fight Club is about is men secretly getting together

and beating each other up,

but, actually, it's about men idolising other men.

Wow.

First rule is - I'm not supposed to talk about it.

And the second rule is - I'm not supposed to talk about it.

And the third rule is... Bob, Bob, I'm a member.

When, you know, I'm talking about Fight Club with someone, I'm like...

Everybody goes, "You were on set on Fight Club?"

"Why were you on set on Fight Club? Who did you know on Fight Club?"

I'm like, "My dad."

And everyone goes, "Oh, yeah!"

Meat Loaf's character, he's a character

who is having a crisis of maleness.

He's a character whose body seems to be not male enough for him.

We're still men.

Yes, we're men.

Men is what we are.

He's fragile and feminised and anxious and undercut and worried,

which is all the things that he never, ever was in his music.

OK. You cry now.

In recent years, Meat Loaf has continued his journey.

He's actually, through his sheer force of nature,

created this melting pot demographic.

He had a big platinum album called Welcome to the Neighbourhood,

and then you have Hang Cool Teddy Bear,

and the interesting thing about that record is

it sort of steers Meat Loaf into a new Hollywood

where guys like Jack Black meet the traditional guitarists

like Brian May of Queen.

And then there was a big top 10 hit in 2006,

It's All Coming Back to Me Now.

A duet with Marion Raven.

# If you forgive me all this Forgive me all this

# If I forgive you all that Forgive you all that

# We forgive and forget

# And it's all coming back to me now...

That song was huge in Norway, obviously.

Marion Raven's from Norway. Huge hit in Europe.

He constantly is a presence.

# It's all coming back to me now. #

He's been here for nearly 40 years.

You're still getting Meat Loaf and those platinum albums

and he's been there for a third of a century.

I don't think anybody foresaw that.

MUSIC: The Apartment by Duncan Lamont

If you were to see Meat Loaf in the afternoon,

you would kind of wonder, "Who's this guy?"

We'll get into, like, a warm-up, maybe an hour out of the show,

and it's like this thing comes in the room, you know,

and it's like, "Holy shit. It's Meat Loaf."

What are we going to do? ALL: Kill!

What do we need to do? ALL: Kill!

What do we always do? ALL: Kill!

ALL: What do big dogs do? Kill!

At the moment, he has hairline fractures in his foot.

He limps because of it and he also had a knee replacement

where they had to remove some bone and put rods in,

and he's on stage every night,

so that gives you an idea of how tough he is,

and that was driven in to him in Texas when he was a boy.

You know, playing football and by his father.

There are eight Jim Steinman songs on the new record

and there hasn't been that much of an involvement with Jim

since '92 on Bat II.

In fact, I'm doing one of the songs

which was meant to go on Bat Out of Hell

and Todd threw off of Bat Out of Hell.

It's called Who Needs the Young?

What he sings is...

I call it rock'n'roll opera.

The songs, in and of themselves, are so difficult for a singer.

I don't want to say it's impossible, but it's difficult.

# Just can't seem to make it tell...

But, to his credit...

# You took the words right out of my mouth. #

Meat Loaf has an ability to work an audience like no-one I've ever seen.

CROWD: You took the words right out of my mouth!

CROWD: Must have been when you were kissing me!

No!

His ability to entertain and capture and hold an audience is still there.

He loves his fanbase like I've never seen anybody love a fanbase before.

He cares about everything.

Hi, my name is Parker. Hi, Parker. How are you?

I...

It's OK, honey.

Your music kept me alive.

Well, hey, I think my music's kept me alive too.

It's not about Meat Loaf, it's about him wanting to perform for his fans.

Once he was accepted,

it's sort of like the fat kid finds love

and that will be such a loyal love

for the rest of his life.

I never thought I would meet you.

Never.

Well, there's no need to cry, darling.

But it was you that kept yourself alive, because you wanted to be here.

Oh, boy. See, so fate brought us together. There you go.

It was a fabulous concert. Well, thank you very much.

For an old man, I go for it. For an old lady, I liked it.

The audience is always the most important thing to me.

I'm going to fucking cry here.

Because I live for these people who spend their money on these seats...

..and they mean more to me than I do to myself.

I...

..I don't mean anything.

They do.