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We found the body of a child
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laying in a small stream
near a culvert.
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Investigators have come together
over the murder of a little girl.
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The most likely cause of death
was suffocation.
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But this case is different
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because this murder happened
more than 60 years ago.
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These are the cold case detectives
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pursuing justice in crimes
often decades old.
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A team of investigators and forensic
experts at the South Wales Police.
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00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,080
They're committed to solving
the most baffling murders
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00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,600
and sex crimes which have gone
undetected for years.
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Terrific, terrific.
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I just hope he does get punished.
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Using the latest developments
in forensic science
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to uncover new evidence,
they're determined to put
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some of the most dangerous
criminals behind bars.
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The time will come where we will
be knocking on their door
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and their world is gonna cave in.
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You're under arrest
on suspicion of rape.
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You don't have to say anything
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but anything you do say
may be given in evidence.
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So we're here to discuss a potential
Cold Case forensic review
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into the murder of Carol Stephens
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a six year old girl who was abducted
from Cardiff in 1959.
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There are bereaved families
of people who have been murdered
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and they've got
unanswered questions.
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If we've got the ability to be able
to provide those answers.
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We serve the public
so we must do that,
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we must take
those opportunities to do that.
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These are scene photographs
of the deposition site.
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So you can have a look at those
at your leisure, really.
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But yeah, we've got everything
she was wearing when she was taken.
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We've got a cardigan,
we got a dress,
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we got a skirt and spectacles.
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Carol Ann Stephens' killer evaded
justice for more than 60 years.
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But police now believe that recent
advances in forensic science
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might reveal traces
of the killer's DNA
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on the little girls clothes.
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Generically speaking
we can look for touch DNA,
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which we will do as matter course
now with cases
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but the chance of us finding
anything is going to be quite slim.
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But also then body fluids,
blood, semen, saliva,
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we can have a look
for things like that.
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This is a 60 year-old case,
so say the person who did it,
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let's assume that he was 20
and he's going to be 80 now.
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But he could be 30 then,
so he could be 90 or deceased.
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So this is probably
a last resort for us.
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So let's do what we can to try
and provide some answers.
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I'd be happy with that.
50
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,280
It still means an awful lot
for a lot of people.
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-It's a horrible case, isn't it?
-Of course, it is.
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Seasoned Detective Gerry Blake
has his own personal reasons
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for wanting justice for Carol.
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00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,080
In 1959 As a young boy,
seven and a half years of age,
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and I was actually
in Sunday school with Carol
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a couple of days
before she went missing.
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That was someone that I knew
and she was murdered.
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You would like to see that justice
is done on a personal matter
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because you knew the person
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and then of course is
the other professional aspect.
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There is an undetected crime.
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A child at the time, Gerry is now
a cold case investigator
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and this case has been a driving
force throughout his career.
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Now, he finally has the chance
to get justice for his friend.
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She was in school with myself
and my two sisters
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and of course, we remember
the event very, very well.
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CATHAYS, CARDIFF
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I knew Carol very well.
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Carol was an innocent girl,
a very chatty girl,
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a very friendly girl.
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00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,640
She did have a propensity to wander
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but people would look out
for young children
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and make sure that no harm
would come to you.
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00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,520
That was a type of neighbourhood
that we had here in Cathays.
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This is 9, Malefant street
the home of Carol Stephens.
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When Carol went missing,
there was great emotion here.
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Everyone was saddened
by the whole incident
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and of course, it had a huge impact
on the people in this community.
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So coming back here
is quite sad and so poignant.
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It brings back so many,
so many bad memories really,
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00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:08,080
to think of that poor girl
who was taken off the street.
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It could have been any one of us.
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Growing up in Cathays
in my time, it was quiet.
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People just went about
their daily lives.
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We went to school.
We had the library.
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Nothing bad happened.
It just didn't.
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It was a nice quiet
ordinary family area.
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00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,600
Gill Ward was 13 years old in 1959
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00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,680
and remembers Carol Ann Stephens
from the neighbourhood.
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She was a quiet
little girl with glasses...
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00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,560
and she would
come down into our street
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and play with the younger children.
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She was in the wrong place
at the wrong time.
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00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,440
This used to be
the old corner shop, Wilkins shop.
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Carol would run an errand
for her mother and attended the shop
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and to buy sweets as well.
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Carol Ann left the shop.
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She walked back along the street...
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and then later on in the day,
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she was seeing knocking
on the window of a car door
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that was parked in Fairoak road
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which is just outside the cemetery.
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That was a last known sighting
of Carol Stephens.
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When it happened,
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there was a big sort of murmuring
among the adults, I suppose,
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that she'd wandered off somewhere
and she'd be found.
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Then of course,
when she wasn't found
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there was a great rush
for moms or dads
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who didn't take
their children to school.
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They suddenly started to take them
to school and meeting them
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because they were frightened.
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And who's to say
that he wouldn't come back
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and pick up another child
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because as far
as we were concerned, this...
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evil person could
come around in a car
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and take a child off the street
just like that, as easy as that.
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Which is very frightening.
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I can remember obviously a detective
coming around the houses.
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Speaking to my mum
and all the other mums.
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When did they last see her?
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Had they noticed anything strange?
Cars, whatever.
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I can't remember them speaking
to any of us as children,
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and that could have been
as a protective sort of thing.
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They didn't want to frighten us.
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For everyone involved, it would
be wonderful if they could solve it
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and could finally find out
who actually did it.
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It'll put a lot
of minds at rest, I think.
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This case is undetected
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and it would mean so much
not just for the family,
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but also for the neighbours as well.
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We've always thought and asked:
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"Whatever happened
to Carol Stephens?"
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00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,040
After decades
of unanswered questions,
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00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,160
the team now prepares to examine
the 60 year old evidence for DNA
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00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,240
in the hope of finally
identifying Carol's killer.
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00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,280
As well as unsolved murder cases,
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the cold case detectives
are also reviewing
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00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,680
more than 300 historical sex crimes
from the archives.
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A mammoth task,
code-named Operation Dudley.
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00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,720
DNA will also
be key in their mission
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to bring these sex offenders
to justice
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decades after their crimes.
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00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,800
Cold Case investigator
James Phillips
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00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,440
is working through the list
of unsolved sex attacks
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dating back to the 1980s.
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00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,280
He's looking for cases where
there's now a realistic chance
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00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,240
of finding offenders DNA
from the historical evidence.
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So I've started on the team
two months ago.
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There's lots of improvements
in the forensic science world.
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00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,120
We're looking at now
at options and possibilities
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of reviewing some of those exhibits
that have been taken
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and sending them off
to be examined again,
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hopefully with some hits.
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When I joined
the police force in1988,
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DNA wasn't a thing.
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Whereas previously, you would need
a large amount of blood,
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a large amount of semen
in perhaps the early 90s,
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for a profile.
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Now they can pick up DNA profiles
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from a slap on the back of a hand
on someone's face.
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It's just amazing.
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Okay, this interview
is being visually recorded.
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Police report staff ID : 56655.
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This man is being questioned
on suspicion of rape.
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He's been arrested
by the cold case team
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after advances in forensic science
identified traces of his DNA
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on the clothing of a woman
who was raped 30 years ago.
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00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,520
In 1991, he victim was walking
through a park in Cardiff
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early evening, walking her dogs.
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She was brutally attacked, raped.
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And as a result of those injuries,
she's required numerous operations.
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It must have been
an horrendous attack.
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Three decades later,
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a tiny semen stain
on the victim's clothing
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revealed the DNA profile
of the attacker.
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By comparing this profile
with the national DNA database,
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the team got a match
with a man called Antony Carling.
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00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,040
Every person that has come
into custody for recordable offence
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has their DNA taken
as a matter of course.
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It's like having your fingerprints
and photograph taken.
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For 30 years, 64 year old Carling
thought he got away with his crime.
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Now, he has some explaining to do.
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It's amazing.
It's like, let's go get him.
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It's just fantastic.
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The time is exactly 1500 hours.
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00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,960
Do you recall ever seeing
a female walking dogs?
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00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,040
How would I remember 30 years ago
if somebody was walking a dog?
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00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,800
This female has got your semen
on her at some point.
189
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So that may jog the memory.
190
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,480
Well, how would my semen
be on somebody that I don't know?
191
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,280
That's what we're saying.
192
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,680
That's a very good question.
Can you answer it?
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No, I can't.
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00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,080
Because she's given us an account
why your semen is on her.
195
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,280
I haven't a clue why, sir.
196
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,240
Short on answers,
Carling is charged with the rape.
197
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,880
And 30 years after
he brutally attacked a woman,
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00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,400
today he must face up
to his crime in court.
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00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,880
Carling pleads guilty.
200
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,560
Back at base,
the cold case team wait anxiously
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00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,680
for Carling to be sentenced.
202
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,320
Alright, Paul, any news?
203
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,800
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's unbelievable, isn't it?
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Yes, it's a great result.
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00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,680
Yeah, we were hoping
for double figures and well,
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00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,720
that's even better, isn't it? So...
207
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,000
He deserves it. Oh, that's great.
Thanks, Paul. That's fantastic.
208
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,560
Cheers, mate. Bye, bye bye.
209
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,360
-12 years.
-Bloody hell.
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00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,640
-He deserves at least that.
-At least, yeah.
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00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,800
Jeremy, he's put her through hell.
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-That was brilliant. She was there?
-Yeah. Yeah.
213
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,360
After 30 years of evading justice,
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00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,480
with the overwhelming
forensic evidence
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00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,920
presented to the court by the team,
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00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,680
Antony Carling
receives a 12 year sentence
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00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,520
for the vicious rape in 1991.
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00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,120
12 years, it's just
a phenomenal result really.
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00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,480
Although it's happened
a long time ago,
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00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,680
staff files never closed and we're
always trying to investigate
221
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,520
and find and get a bit of closure
for our victim.
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00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,880
The conviction of culling for rape
is an important result for the team.
223
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,000
But there's no time
to rest on their laurels.
224
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,920
Seasoned Detective Gerry Blake
is on a mission to crack a case
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00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,560
that has gone unsolved
for over 60 years.
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00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,560
The murder of his childhood friend,
Carol Ann Stephens.
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00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,200
I'd be absolutely elated.
228
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,440
One has to consider...
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00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,240
the background of this person,
230
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,640
and were there
any other offences committed?
231
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,120
So by progressing the science
and the forensic aspect of this case
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00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,720
we don't know
what we'll get at the end of it.
233
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,840
Key to solving the case
will be understanding
234
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,120
what lines of inquiry
were followed back in the 1950s.
235
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,680
If the files are here, hopefully
they're going to be in this section
236
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,600
but we can check the others as well.
237
00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:12,000
Incredibly, most of the case papers
have survived.
238
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,240
It's amazing, as you as
you go through some of these
239
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,360
from my service I remember
the names and some of the cases.
240
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,080
What about this?
That's the only box there?
241
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,200
It's the only box, yes.
242
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,560
Well that's fantastic for a start.
243
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,120
It gives us a start,
Carol Ann, doesn't it?
244
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,400
Unfortunately, they don't
all appear to be in numerical order.
245
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,200
Really and truly
patience is a virtue.
246
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,720
To test your eyesight.
247
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,280
It's just a matter
of waiting through it.
248
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,400
I joined the police force
in the late 70s.
249
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:09,480
I was enthusiastic
to become a policeman.
250
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,240
I was in my 20s when I joined.
251
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,480
It was something that I wanted
to do for a long, long time.
252
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,440
I didn't have the confidence
to apply for the job.
253
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,880
I was in engineering
before I became a policeman
254
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,760
but it was something I wanted to do.
255
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,720
I think once you're a policeman,
you're always the policeman.
256
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,360
You're of service,
you want to serve the public
257
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,320
the community around you
and be helpful as much as you can.
258
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,000
Amongst the boxes of evidence,
259
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,000
Gerry and the team find
the original witness statements
260
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,360
taken by the police in 1959,
261
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,920
from the residents
of Cathays in Cardiff,
262
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,680
the area where Carol went missing.
263
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,560
They make a reference
to Carol being a chatterbox.
264
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,320
It appeared that she was going
to be going somewhere that morning.
265
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080
There's a shopkeeper that says
she would normally stay and chat.
266
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,800
She didn't.
267
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,880
It appears that she was
more excited than normal.
268
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,200
Here's the bit, Gerry, about
that lady you said about the garage.
269
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,520
She saw Carol Stephens
in a green coloured motorcar
270
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,520
which might have been
a Morris Minor.
271
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,120
But then she was not sure the colour
272
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,880
she put it the green
or dark coloured car.
273
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,080
Carol was also seen
by several witnesses
274
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,600
playing with a group of children
in the street that morning.
275
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,440
They identified one little boy
276
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,400
who was in what we termed in the day
was a Red Indian outfit.
277
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,800
He was with Carol.
278
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,920
At the time that she approached,
279
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
so both of them
approached a motorcar.
280
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,480
He was suggesting
it was a dark coloured car.
281
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,320
He would be
the last person to see her alive.
282
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,720
And the last person
to see the killer.
283
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,560
He's a key witness and I think
it's a shame he was only six.
284
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,840
-Was a six?
-Would have been the same age.
285
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,680
It's a shame he wasn't
old enough to make a statement.
286
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,240
-It's clarified in the report.
-What does it say?
287
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,320
The children were too young
to provide statements.
288
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,280
He is vital.
289
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,280
He's seen the car,
he's seen the colour of the car
290
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,480
and he's seen the driver of the car.
291
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,440
Other witnesses were only able
to give a sketchy description
292
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,280
of the man in the car.
293
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,960
From that fireman statement,
294
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,040
tends to suggest
the person sitting in the car,
295
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,520
they referred to them
as commercial travellers.
296
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,880
And appeared
not to enjoy the best health,
297
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,520
although he was clean shaven.
298
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,520
This suspicious driver
was now the prime suspect.
299
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,320
Finding him became
the focus of the inquiry.
300
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,880
But after two weeks,
301
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,920
the search for a missing child
became a murder hunt.
302
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,480
Carol's body was found
60 miles west of Cardiff
303
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,680
in a stream near
the remote village of Horeb.
304
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,600
The news shook the community
and her friends to the core.
305
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,880
When she'd been found...
306
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,360
it was a realisation that
she'd been taken and actually killed
307
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,400
and that was a big shock.
308
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,920
There was great talk about
how she was found so far away
309
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,840
because it was assumed
she'd be found nearer to home.
310
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,800
I mean, the talk was...
311
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,240
It's awful to talk about it
because she's a little girl.
312
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,200
Was she murdered in the area
313
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,720
and then taken down later?
314
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,160
Did she travel all those hours
in the car with somebody
315
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,320
that she didn't know
but obviously trusted
316
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,800
on what would have been
a four hour car journey then
317
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,320
back in those days, no motorways.
318
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,640
But it was just a terrible,
terrible thing to a little child.
319
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,560
For everyone involved,
320
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,560
it would be wonderful
if they could solve it
321
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,120
and draw a line under it.
322
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,760
-We go over this river.
-Yeah.
323
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,720
It's in that field there,
I'm guessing
324
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,320
or that field over there.
325
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,920
Going somewhere and getting a feel
326
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,120
for where she's found
is quite important.
327
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,880
The Cold Case team
has come to the village of Horeb
328
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,560
to try and find the exact location
where Carol's body was found
329
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,560
more than 60 years ago.
330
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,760
-Where are we?
-I think...
331
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,440
Looking at those fields,
I think we need to head
332
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,160
towards the left over there,
because the stream is running down.
333
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,680
Going there with
the photograph from 1959
334
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,960
and turn up there 60 years later
and take another photo,
335
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,560
they're identical.
It's like nothing's changed.
336
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,000
So this is where she was found.
337
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,080
Do we assume
that she's come out to the culvert
338
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,560
or she's been brought
down the sides of this?
339
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,000
It would be difficult to climb here
carrying even a small child.
340
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,080
It's difficult
going down the incline
341
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,360
and she would have had more injuries
if she had been thrown over.
342
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,680
So the tunnel itself
343
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,000
there's nothing in there,
it's just a round, smooth tunnel.
344
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,960
Is goes in about a meter
and then it goes 45 degrees.
345
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,560
-Alright.
-Up to under the road.
346
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,480
The incline will bring things down.
347
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,640
So that means then we need to find
where she was put in.
348
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,720
This has always been
at the back of my mind.
349
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,920
It's not really the main reason
for joining the police force.
350
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,520
I think all police officers
would like to detect
351
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,600
every case that they're involved in.
352
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,280
This is poignant for me
because I knew Carol Stephens.
353
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,400
Alright, so this is above
where we were just now.
354
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,720
From what we've seen,
the culvert goes up
355
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,800
and an incline comes out
on that side of the road.
356
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,200
-It was a pullen area.
-It's pullen, isn't it?
357
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,120
Nobody would think anything of it.
358
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,600
They might think
you're just going into the field
359
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,200
even if you parked up here.
360
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,720
Well, this is the entrance
and look at the speed of the water.
361
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,400
You wouldn't have
to remove a drain cover.
362
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,080
It's a straightforward access
from the road.
363
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,200
He's driven along here.
364
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,720
He's pulled in off the roads
and natural pulling,
365
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,360
carries her here,
366
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,120
puts her into the culvert
at this point.
367
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,000
He must have thought the chance
of her ever being found here
368
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,480
is minimal.
369
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,080
I can't imagine he thought
she'd be found, not for a long time.
370
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,760
From here,
you'd have to know about this.
371
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,760
Oh, you'd have to know about it.
372
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,800
You would know the area,
wouldn't you?
373
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,200
To be able to conceal
Carol's body in that culvert
374
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,760
someone must have known
about the culvert and the area
375
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,120
so therefore
must have local knowledge.
376
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,960
So this narrows down
who the killer might.
377
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,520
The team are now convinced
Carol Ann Stephens killer
378
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,680
was a travelling salesman
with a dark Morris Minor
379
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,440
and had local knowledge
of West Wales.
380
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,840
Gerry and James are now
on the trail of a suspect
381
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,920
who was identified back in 1959.
382
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,000
A local shopkeeper reported
a suspicious conversation he'd had
383
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,640
with a travelling salesman
days before the murder.
384
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,760
The storekeeper being told
by the travelling salesman a story
385
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,640
which he thought was strange.
386
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,200
and it was about picking up a girl.
387
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,320
the suspicious salesman was
identified as Ronald Edward Murray.
388
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,880
Murray worked for Carson's
confectionery company,
389
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,520
delivering sweets to Cardiff
and across West Wales
390
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,080
and drove a dark Morris Minor.
391
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Crucially, he had previously
worked at the Brickworks
392
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,840
in the village of Horeb.
393
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,960
Less than 300 yards
from where Carol's body was found.
394
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,200
Armed with this knowledge,
395
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,880
Gerry and James have come
to where the suspect lived,
396
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,960
and where detectives
came to question him in 1959.
397
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,920
"I have reason to believe
you may be to assist with inquiries
398
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,560
can you account for your movements
on the day that she disappeared
399
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,080
which was
the 7th of April 1959 at Cardiff?"
400
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,480
Murray says: "You don't think
I have anything to do with it?"
401
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,360
And then they asked him
if they can have access to his car
402
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,720
and take his vehicle,
and he comments:
403
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,800
"It's a firm's car but you can
do what you want with it."
404
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Then he gave them
the keys to the car, he was quite...
405
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:44,960
-Helpful.
-He was helpful.
406
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360
Albeit denying any involvement.
407
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,240
After initially saying
he was at home ill
408
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,240
on the day Carol went missing,
409
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,360
Murray then changed his story
410
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,200
and admitted that he had actually
travelled to Cardiff that day.
411
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,960
In his own words,
he parks up in Robert Street,
412
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,880
which is only just a short distance
from Carol's house.
413
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,240
-It's where the kids were playing.
-Exactly.
414
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,680
And then he identifies
the children playing in the streets.
415
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,920
According to Murray, he then drove
home and spent the afternoon alone.
416
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,160
He's home between
about 12:15, 12:30.
417
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,320
So no one accounts for his movements
418
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,040
until his lad comes home.
419
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,880
-From school at quarter to four.
-Quarter to four.
420
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:44,600
The pathologists saying that
judging by Carol's stomach contents
421
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,520
the time of death
422
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,160
would have been anytime
between 12:15 and 2:45.
423
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,440
-It's a window, isn't it?
-That is that window.
424
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,200
and he can't account
for his movements during that time.
425
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,280
There was a lot of circumstantial
evidence suggesting
426
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,440
Ronald Murray's involvement
in the in the alleged offence
427
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,600
but there wasn't that golden nugget,
I would say,
428
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,280
the forensic evidence
so there wasn't enough to charge.
429
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,480
But now Gerry and the team
430
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,280
hope they can take the case further
than the original investigation
431
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,440
and finally, prove
or disprove Murray's involvement.
432
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,640
We can only hope
with the advances in technology
433
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,320
and in the science itself,
that we may get a breakthrough.
434
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,160
As the team focused their attention
on modern forensics
435
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,160
for the Carol Ann Stephens case,
436
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,120
they're also hoping
for a breakthrough
437
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,920
in their troll of over
300 historical sex crimes
438
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,240
as part of Operation Dudley.
439
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,320
DNA technology has already
helped secure the conviction
440
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,440
of rapist Antony Carling,
441
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,920
and they're confident
of a breakthrough in a case
442
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,640
from 40 years ago,
in the Swansea area.
443
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,720
This is a nasty incident
of the little girl
444
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,520
who is raped,
stroked, sexually assaulted
445
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,480
and...
446
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:26,280
it appears there's a realistic
opportunity of semen being found
447
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,360
on the victim at the time.
448
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,720
-It's terrific.
-Terrific, yeah.
449
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,800
In particular with that offence
450
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,560
of a male person attacking a girl
you just dread to think
451
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,320
what he's done in the last 40 years.
452
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,200
-You think significant improvements?
-I think so.
453
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,160
-DNA in the sperm.
-Yeah.
454
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,000
So what we got in the archives
and we go from there, really.
455
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,480
Welcome to the forensic archive.
456
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,160
I've managed to locate
four packets of material.
457
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,520
Debbie and Steve
have come to the top secret
458
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,600
National Forensic archive.
459
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,000
Here, over 4 million items
of forensic evidence
460
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,240
dating back to the 1930s
from police forces across the UK
461
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,000
are kept in storage.
462
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,920
It's a treasure trove
for cold case detectives.
463
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,520
On its shelves is the evidence
that with today's forensic science,
464
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,880
could finally hold the answers
to hundreds of unsolved cases.
465
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,280
What we're able to do
is dig into the past.
466
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,720
Back in the 70s and 80s,
the procedures and processes
467
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,280
were very different.
468
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,120
DNA wasn't something
that was thought about.
469
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,080
But what the investigators
at the time
470
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,000
had the foresight to think about
471
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,840
was the fact that with the speed
that forensic developments progress
472
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,880
that there would be something
in the future in those exhibits,
473
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,480
something that we can review again
and get a result from it.
474
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,640
One slide reference: JN/2.
475
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,760
Hopefully, with the advances
in forensic science,
476
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,960
a lot more cases will be solved
again to bring closure to victims
477
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,960
and to let perpetrators
out there know
478
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,040
that we're not going
to let these things die down.
479
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,040
We were going to use every
possible investigative technique
480
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,760
to identify these perpetrators
to bring them justice.
481
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,600
The team head back to base
482
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,080
with the samples from the sexual
assault on the little girl.
483
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,040
Cold Case investigator
James Phillips
484
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,880
wants to get an expert opinion
on whether the 40 year old samples
485
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,960
could still contain
the attackers DNA.
486
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,880
Cheek.
487
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,120
Ear. Ear and Neck.
488
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,800
We're at a stage now
where DNA is just so sensitive.
489
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,800
It doesn't take
a great deal of contact
490
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,920
for us to be able
to obtain a DNA profile.
491
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,840
So what they'll do
is they'll soak the slides,
492
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,520
remove the cover slip,
493
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,360
and they'll swab the sample
underneath the cover slip then
494
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,040
and then the swabs from the samples
will be profile for DNA.
495
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,120
It's a horrific incident
496
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,400
for a young girl to go through.
497
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:48,200
Now, if it comes back with a profile
498
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,360
they're be good bet
that he'd be on the database.
499
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
This case now rests
with the scientists.
500
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,200
As does the other investigation
501
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,840
into the murder
of six year old Carol Ann Stephens.
502
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,320
Senior forensic adviser David Thomas
503
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,760
has been looking at the 60 year old
exhibits to assess their potential.
504
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,120
They're hoping to find traces of DNA
505
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,800
that would prove once and for all
whether they're prime suspect
506
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,480
travelling sweet salesman,
Ronald Murray, is the killer.
507
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,760
That...
508
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,160
is the right shoe
at the scene of Carol Ann
509
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,040
which is in the water
or in the stream then.
510
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,040
The river may have done some damage.
511
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,880
I think it has, my recollection,
512
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,760
and going back on a personal note
on the weekend before
513
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,880
she attended Sunday school with us
and they were new shoes.
514
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,480
Oh, were they?
515
00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,760
Now a small child cardigan.
This is reference: 101-2
516
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,240
Correct me if I'm wrong quite sure
this is more Carol Ann was wearing
517
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,480
when she was abducted
on Malefant Street.
518
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,200
Yeah, it's a possibility
if she's wearing it, his touch.
519
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,800
She had to get out if she was
in the car, removed from wherever
520
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,280
into that culvert.
521
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,160
There must have been some sort
of touching around there.
522
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,640
Touch DNA is,
say you grabbed me on my arm
523
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,520
you would leave DNA on my arm
524
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,240
from sweat skin cells,
maybe even some hairs.
525
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,040
And then we would sample that area
where we know you have touched
526
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,040
to recover the DNA
that you've left on the surfaces.
527
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,560
Incredibly, police even preserved
the confectionery
528
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,960
found in Murray's car
more than 60 years ago,
529
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,160
in the hope
that it would one day yield close.
530
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,760
Two chocolates
in green foil wrappers.
531
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,240
Dorchestrer
chocolate label by Carsons.
532
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,440
Do those sweets
link up at all in any way?
533
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,240
Can they link at all to Carol Ann?
534
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560
There could be some on the wrapper.
535
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,200
There are also dozens
of Carol's belongings
536
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,720
that could crucially finally provide
that forensic link to Murray.
537
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,600
Albeit, Murray's our strong suspect
538
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,120
for a number of different
investigative reasons.
539
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,680
But who's to say
it's not somebody else?
540
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,160
Whatever's there is there.
Let's go looking for it.
541
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,000
Yeah.
542
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,760
But generally think
there is some potential here.
543
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,800
While the forensic
examinations get underway
544
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,040
on the Carol Ann Stephens case,
545
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,600
Cold Case investigator
James Phillips
546
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,640
has been waiting on the DNA results
547
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,360
from the sexual assault on a
little girl more than 40 years ago.
548
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,040
It's not good news.
549
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,960
The report is coming back
more or less saying that...
550
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,200
there's no further potential.
551
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,000
However, the scientist,
I'll read it out,
552
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,200
and it's one of the first ones
we've had where he says:
553
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,800
I recommend that these slides
are retained and attempt to profile
554
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,080
reconsidered and perhaps
three to five years
555
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,000
pending any advances
in DNA profiling technology.
556
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,400
In particular,
the extraction of DNA from slides.
557
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,840
Gutted, is the word for that one.
558
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Then we have ups and downs,
good days and bad days.
559
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,880
Just got to carry on.
Just got to, yeah.
560
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,320
Yeah...
561
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,120
As one door closes,
the team are hopeful
562
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,840
that senior Forensic Scientist
Claire Morse
563
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,640
will have better luck
as they begin the work of testing
564
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:50,840
the 60 year old evidence
565
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,200
in the murder of Cardiff schoolgirl
Carol Ann Stephens.
566
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,280
We will recover everything that
we can from her items of clothing.
567
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,600
We are really looking for DNA.
568
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,800
If we can find DNA
from somebody that's not Carol Ann
569
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,000
we need to find out
who that person is.
570
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,000
Could be a legitimate contact,
but it could be an offender.
571
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,600
So DNA from a touch
or from blood or semen or saliva
572
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,560
is going to be the easiest thing
really for us to look at.
573
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,080
It's a very difficult case.
574
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,920
Carol Ann was found in a culvert.
575
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,600
She was wet and had probably
been in water for several days.
576
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,720
The fact that she's been in water
means that any DNA
577
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,800
blood, semen
saliva, could have been lost.
578
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,080
But there's always a chance
with these things,
579
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,960
and that's why we keep going.
580
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,640
With the forensic testing underway,
581
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,200
Carol's school friend
and veteran Detective Gerry Blake
582
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,760
has been digging deeper
into the background
583
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,280
of lead suspect, Ronald Murray.
584
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,640
What he's found is deeply troubling.
585
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,440
His wife had a tragic death.
586
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:17,440
And in fact, the family
are concerned that he had some...
587
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,800
some dealing with a with a death.
588
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,120
What had happened was that
589
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,360
Ronald Murray had a young child,
590
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,680
and he said they would play games,
turning the gas on and off.
591
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,960
Murray says that the child
had played the game on this mother.
592
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,920
She suffocated with the gas
from the gas stove.
593
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:11,040
The officers who conducted
the inquiries into that
594
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,360
were clearly suspicious
about the story given.
595
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,520
But the verdict...
596
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,560
it was an accidental death.
597
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,240
Gerry's research has turned up
another death certificate.
598
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,320
Murray died in 1973.
599
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,440
There are significant questions
600
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,920
that we would
have liked to ask Ronald Murray.
601
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,160
Because the style
of questioning at the time
602
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:59,880
is different
to what we would do now.
603
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,520
That doesn't mean to say that we're
going to stop our investigation.
604
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:04,920
Whilst he is a suspect
605
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,280
but from the evidence we've got in
606
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,840
it might not be Murray.
607
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,680
So that must be a key driver
for us to carry on.
608
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,560
So if it's somebody else,
that person may still be alive.
609
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,120
That person may still be a risk,
an ongoing risk
610
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,200
to the public, to young girls.
611
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,640
So it's vital
that we continue on inquiries.
612
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,720
So we'll be putting an immediate
appeal out asking for information.
613
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:35,440
It needs to go
out on a press release,
614
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,920
it needs to go on the website,
it needs to go on the socials.
615
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,000
There may be people who for example,
Mister Murray may have spoken to
616
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,080
and told people about what happened
617
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,320
what he did, if he is responsible.
618
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,800
They might have
the smallest piece of information
619
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,880
but that might be significant to us
because of what we know.
620
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:54,920
Next time.
621
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,400
Time catches up with a vicious
rapist on operation Dudley.
622
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,120
-Police.
-You're under arrest.
623
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:04,680
On suspicion of rape
624
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,800
that occurred
on the 17th of August 1980.
625
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,240
In there.
626
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,760
And a breakthrough
when after 60 years
627
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,680
a new witness comes forward
in the Carol Ann Stephens case.
628
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,920
The main memory is I remember
the car door being opened
629
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,160
and there was a white bag of sweets
on the car seat.
630
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,400
He also suggested
that there was a possibility
631
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,360
that he may identify this man
if he saw a photograph.
632
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,120
Are you able to identify
any person on the film?
633
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,640
Yes.
634
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,000
Subtitles: Amaury Pinos
plint.com
53782
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