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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,310 Mount Baldy's 35 or 40 miles from downtown Los Angeles. 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,172 It's about eight miles up to the top. 3 00:00:14,172 --> 00:00:18,000 And then there's various cabins strewn about the mountains. 4 00:00:19,275 --> 00:00:20,689 You might not have cell service. 5 00:00:20,689 --> 00:00:23,000 You might not see a neighbor for days. 6 00:00:24,689 --> 00:00:28,896 Judy and Marcia wanted to move to the mountain for a quieter 7 00:00:28,896 --> 00:00:30,137 kind of life. 8 00:00:31,517 --> 00:00:34,000 Unfortunately, that just didn't happen. 9 00:00:36,896 --> 00:00:41,310 These strange events have been plaguing the cabin. 10 00:00:49,517 --> 00:00:54,034 How can anybody in their right mind do this? 11 00:00:55,482 --> 00:00:57,862 There are bad people in the world 12 00:00:57,862 --> 00:01:01,827 that have ill intentions, and it's just tragic. 13 00:01:27,482 --> 00:01:32,241 It was probably about 6:30, 7. It was still light, summertime. 14 00:01:33,689 --> 00:01:36,482 I was up on top of Glendora Ridge Road, 15 00:01:36,482 --> 00:01:40,551 because there's a big, vast area that had been bulldozed 16 00:01:40,551 --> 00:01:43,137 to put houses up there. 17 00:01:43,137 --> 00:01:45,000 I was walking my dog. 18 00:01:46,206 --> 00:01:50,000 My dog ran loose, and I was running after him. 19 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,793 I ran into these two women, and they had my dog, 20 00:01:53,793 --> 00:01:55,931 and I was like, "Oh, thank you for getting him." 21 00:01:57,517 --> 00:02:01,551 Judy Gellert was in her late 40s, and Marcia Johnson was 22 00:02:01,551 --> 00:02:03,689 a bit younger, in her late 30s. 23 00:02:03,689 --> 00:02:06,965 Marcia was the more outgoing, gregarious type, 24 00:02:06,965 --> 00:02:10,827 where Judy was a little bit more shy, a little bit quieter. 25 00:02:12,793 --> 00:02:16,379 The neighbor had rented them that little space. 26 00:02:16,379 --> 00:02:19,034 They had their trailer parked up there for a while, 27 00:02:19,034 --> 00:02:20,034 and I don't know how long. 28 00:02:20,034 --> 00:02:22,379 They just seemed nice, and I thought 29 00:02:22,379 --> 00:02:24,344 maybe we could be friends. 30 00:02:34,689 --> 00:02:38,896 Judy Gellert and Marcia Johnson met in the late 1980s in 31 00:02:38,896 --> 00:02:41,172 a substance abuse rehabilitation center, 32 00:02:41,172 --> 00:02:43,137 where they were both seeking help. 33 00:02:44,379 --> 00:02:47,551 The two developed a close friendship. 34 00:02:47,551 --> 00:02:50,034 And as their relationship deepened, 35 00:02:50,827 --> 00:02:53,344 they developed a sexual relationship 36 00:02:54,413 --> 00:02:56,620 and ultimately became partners. 37 00:02:58,310 --> 00:03:00,620 They were able to get sober together. 38 00:03:01,793 --> 00:03:05,379 Judy secured a position as a substance abuse counselor 39 00:03:05,379 --> 00:03:08,448 while Marcia was working in computer programming. 40 00:03:08,448 --> 00:03:12,655 And they begin a life of their own, really, a future. 41 00:03:14,586 --> 00:03:18,689 Judy and Marcia spent about ten years traveling in 42 00:03:18,689 --> 00:03:20,896 an RV together. 43 00:03:20,896 --> 00:03:24,586 They had lived in a number of places around California. 44 00:03:24,586 --> 00:03:29,586 And by 1998, Judy and Marcia had settled on a campground 45 00:03:29,586 --> 00:03:31,034 near Mount Baldy. 46 00:03:33,620 --> 00:03:37,000 In the 1990s, it wasn't the same as now. 47 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,655 Gay couples didn't have the same comfort level being 48 00:03:40,655 --> 00:03:43,862 open and honest about their relationships. 49 00:03:43,862 --> 00:03:47,344 In moving to Mount Baldy, they were probably hoping to 50 00:03:47,344 --> 00:03:49,551 escape the outside world a little bit. 51 00:03:51,275 --> 00:03:54,000 The first time they met, Judy and Marcia were telling 52 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,034 Kerri how they really wanted a permanent home. 53 00:03:58,034 --> 00:04:01,241 The thing is, real estate on Mount Baldy is pretty hard to 54 00:04:01,241 --> 00:04:03,482 come by because the residents don't leave. 55 00:04:03,482 --> 00:04:04,862 They stay there. 56 00:04:05,482 --> 00:04:08,000 Kerri said, well, it just happened to be good timing 57 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,896 because she knew of a cabin that was for sale. 58 00:04:10,896 --> 00:04:15,241 And the cabin was being sold by 71-year-old Jack Irwin. 59 00:04:20,275 --> 00:04:22,931 Jack had lived on the mountain several years. 60 00:04:23,689 --> 00:04:27,896 His cabin was like a mile up, this little road that wasn't 61 00:04:27,896 --> 00:04:29,758 well maintained. 62 00:04:32,172 --> 00:04:33,965 Jack was a Korean War veteran. 63 00:04:35,103 --> 00:04:37,517 He was a loner and was very frugal. 64 00:04:38,275 --> 00:04:41,275 He was the type of guy that slept on a cot. 65 00:04:41,275 --> 00:04:45,551 He had one knife, one fork, one plate, one spoon. 66 00:04:45,551 --> 00:04:47,068 Very minimalist. 67 00:04:47,517 --> 00:04:50,103 What actually led him to being up on Mount Baldy, 68 00:04:50,103 --> 00:04:51,931 he didn't say, 69 00:04:52,689 --> 00:04:54,793 other than the fact that he did like to be alone, 70 00:04:54,793 --> 00:04:56,758 and that's a good place to be alone. 71 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,586 Once in a while, my husband and I would have Jack down for 72 00:05:15,586 --> 00:05:19,586 dinner because he has no relatives, and no friends 73 00:05:19,586 --> 00:05:21,275 as far as I know. 74 00:05:21,275 --> 00:05:27,000 He didn't talk a lot, but he would sit and just be 75 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,310 with our son. 76 00:05:29,103 --> 00:05:31,724 He was a very private person. 77 00:05:32,482 --> 00:05:37,275 I'm thinking that there was more to his life that 78 00:05:37,275 --> 00:05:39,413 he never talked about. 79 00:05:42,379 --> 00:05:46,379 He loved his cabin, and he kept it immaculate. 80 00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:50,965 But Jack was having a harder time as he got older. 81 00:05:50,965 --> 00:05:54,379 You look at the cabin, and it's got to be heated by 82 00:05:54,379 --> 00:05:55,620 chopping firewood. 83 00:05:56,793 --> 00:05:59,482 As he was aging, that was becoming 84 00:05:59,482 --> 00:06:01,586 more and more of an issue. 85 00:06:01,586 --> 00:06:04,896 He was looking for a little bit more comfort. 86 00:06:04,896 --> 00:06:10,241 Marcia and Judy had met Jack and asked if they could 87 00:06:10,241 --> 00:06:11,965 buy the cabin. 88 00:06:13,275 --> 00:06:17,655 When newcomers come onto Mount Baldy, they're greeted with 89 00:06:17,655 --> 00:06:20,137 a little bit of skepticism. 90 00:06:20,137 --> 00:06:24,689 They are regarded as outsiders, and I think it takes a while to 91 00:06:24,689 --> 00:06:26,310 kind of penetrate that wall. 92 00:06:27,379 --> 00:06:29,965 He wanted to make sure that the people who were going to 93 00:06:29,965 --> 00:06:33,137 buy his cabin could be trusted. 94 00:06:33,137 --> 00:06:37,034 And they felt this need to impress Jack. 95 00:06:38,689 --> 00:06:43,000 They would meet up at the store and pick up mail together. 96 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,068 They tried to do the best they could for him. 97 00:06:46,068 --> 00:06:48,793 You know, be part of his life. 98 00:06:48,793 --> 00:06:52,172 They were only in Jack's life for a few months, 99 00:06:52,172 --> 00:06:54,758 but they became friends. 100 00:06:54,758 --> 00:06:58,344 And then Judy and Marcia began to spend more and more time 101 00:06:58,344 --> 00:06:59,758 with Jack. 102 00:07:00,379 --> 00:07:03,000 He had these two people who were interested in him, 103 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,103 and he liked that. 104 00:07:12,896 --> 00:07:16,448 Early on in 1999, 105 00:07:17,379 --> 00:07:22,862 Jack had told me that Marcia and Judy could hone in on what 106 00:07:22,862 --> 00:07:28,034 was going on in the village and what the people were like. 107 00:07:28,034 --> 00:07:31,275 Jack really believed that they would take care of 108 00:07:31,275 --> 00:07:33,758 the property, and that they would fit in with 109 00:07:33,758 --> 00:07:35,448 the community as well. 110 00:07:36,689 --> 00:07:41,068 He sold the cabin to Marcia and Judy, gave them some great 111 00:07:41,068 --> 00:07:45,206 terms, and should've been a very wonderful life for those two. 112 00:07:52,206 --> 00:07:55,793 Jack moved to a home about a half an hour down 113 00:07:55,793 --> 00:07:58,827 the mountain in a suburban town called Upland. 114 00:08:00,310 --> 00:08:03,344 It was at the base of the mountain where he could 115 00:08:03,344 --> 00:08:07,482 still have the beautiful view, but enjoy, I think, 116 00:08:07,482 --> 00:08:09,206 more creature comforts. 117 00:08:11,379 --> 00:08:15,034 Judy and Marcia saw Jack quite frequently still. 118 00:08:15,034 --> 00:08:18,137 Material things were not important to him, 119 00:08:19,724 --> 00:08:22,448 But that cabin, that's what he loved. 120 00:08:23,586 --> 00:08:27,965 He was so insistent every day going up the hill 121 00:08:27,965 --> 00:08:29,620 to check on it. 122 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:35,827 There was one day I was hiking, going down by the cabin, 123 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,241 and I hear this heated argument. 124 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,724 And Marcia was saying, "I'm sorry, Jack, I'm sorry." 125 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,620 And Jack, I couldn't make out what he was saying. 126 00:08:51,827 --> 00:08:55,000 There seemed to be something about this cabin 127 00:08:56,275 --> 00:08:58,310 that Jack wouldn't let go of. 128 00:09:13,689 --> 00:09:14,931 They were fighting, 129 00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:17,310 and then it stopped. 130 00:09:18,793 --> 00:09:21,586 I heard the car start up, and so I watched 131 00:09:21,586 --> 00:09:23,517 Jack's car drive by. 132 00:09:25,379 --> 00:09:26,862 And he drove on down the mountain, 133 00:09:26,862 --> 00:09:29,862 and I called Marcia. I said, "Is everything OK?" 134 00:09:29,862 --> 00:09:32,448 And she said, "Oh, yeah, it was just a misunderstanding." 135 00:09:34,896 --> 00:09:36,931 I didn't know what to think. 136 00:09:39,275 --> 00:09:42,482 This really piqued the curiosity of the neighbors, 137 00:09:42,482 --> 00:09:45,689 because all of a sudden, they're hearing arguments, 138 00:09:45,689 --> 00:09:47,103 and there's a tension. 139 00:09:47,103 --> 00:09:51,068 And I think everybody was wondering what in the world is 140 00:09:51,068 --> 00:09:53,068 going on with these three. 141 00:09:53,068 --> 00:09:56,379 Well, it turns out, prior to the sale of the cabin, 142 00:09:56,379 --> 00:09:59,724 Jack didn't realize they are a gay couple. 143 00:10:00,517 --> 00:10:04,551 This was a real change and a surprise. 144 00:10:06,172 --> 00:10:09,827 Marcia and Judy had said that was not something that Jack 145 00:10:09,827 --> 00:10:10,896 could handle. 146 00:10:10,896 --> 00:10:15,000 I mean, long back in the '40s and the '50s, 147 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,620 it was something you never talked about. 148 00:10:18,689 --> 00:10:24,103 And he was very much against them being in that situation. 149 00:10:24,103 --> 00:10:29,172 So he was verbally not nice to them. 150 00:10:29,172 --> 00:10:32,551 And then, kind of cut it off at that point. 151 00:10:32,551 --> 00:10:34,517 He left and never returned. 152 00:10:35,689 --> 00:10:38,758 By the end of the summer, Jack's trips up the mountain had 153 00:10:38,758 --> 00:10:40,827 come to a complete end. 154 00:10:44,103 --> 00:10:49,275 I had called Jack to Thanksgiving dinner at 155 00:10:49,275 --> 00:10:51,827 our house a month or so ahead of time. 156 00:10:53,689 --> 00:10:55,000 I kept calling, 157 00:10:55,862 --> 00:10:57,862 and I couldn't get in touch with him. 158 00:11:00,068 --> 00:11:06,896 We always were in contact, and with not hearing from him 159 00:11:06,896 --> 00:11:11,896 for days and days and days, it was not like Jack. 160 00:11:15,586 --> 00:11:20,241 Mount Baldy is a community of people that all knew each 161 00:11:20,241 --> 00:11:24,931 other, and if you don't see somebody, you check on them. 162 00:11:30,862 --> 00:11:34,793 I had put a sign of Jack missing on the front of 163 00:11:34,793 --> 00:11:36,000 the post office. 164 00:11:36,931 --> 00:11:40,862 Everybody up there has a PO box. 165 00:11:40,862 --> 00:11:44,413 So they would come in and ask about Jack. 166 00:11:46,931 --> 00:11:51,000 When Marcia and Judy came into the post office, I asked them 167 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,620 if they had seen Jack. 168 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:58,034 They did acknowledge that it had been some time since 169 00:11:58,034 --> 00:11:59,689 they heard from Jack. 170 00:11:59,689 --> 00:12:02,724 And there was definitely some question. 171 00:12:03,793 --> 00:12:07,793 Sometimes you just get a feeling, or an aura 172 00:12:07,793 --> 00:12:10,241 about a person. 173 00:12:10,241 --> 00:12:15,137 And I had such a terrible feeling that he was in danger. 174 00:12:16,379 --> 00:12:19,620 And I said, well, you need to call the police. 175 00:12:28,517 --> 00:12:31,827 On October 3, 1999, the Upland Police Department 176 00:12:31,827 --> 00:12:34,137 received a call from Marcia Johnson, 177 00:12:34,862 --> 00:12:38,000 reporting Jack Irwin missing. 178 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,827 And she said she lived in a cabin on Mount Baldy. 179 00:12:41,586 --> 00:12:45,172 So after the initial report was made, one of our police 180 00:12:45,172 --> 00:12:49,172 officers responded to her home and got some additional 181 00:12:49,172 --> 00:12:50,655 information from her. 182 00:12:57,206 --> 00:13:00,758 When the Upland Police interview Judy and Marcia, 183 00:13:00,758 --> 00:13:03,862 the pair describes a relationship in which 184 00:13:03,862 --> 00:13:06,275 they are very close with Jack. 185 00:13:06,275 --> 00:13:09,482 But by the end of the summer, the relationship between Jack 186 00:13:09,482 --> 00:13:12,793 and Judy and Marcia began to change. 187 00:13:12,793 --> 00:13:17,827 He came to the cabin, but Jack was very 188 00:13:17,827 --> 00:13:20,103 rude and belittling. 189 00:13:20,103 --> 00:13:24,379 Despite the tension there, they explain that they really 190 00:13:24,379 --> 00:13:26,896 care for Jack very much. 191 00:13:26,896 --> 00:13:29,827 And they wanted the police to find him. 192 00:13:33,586 --> 00:13:36,448 There's no crime involved in being a missing adult. 193 00:13:36,448 --> 00:13:42,586 There's no obligation to contact your friends or family. 194 00:13:42,586 --> 00:13:46,137 Our objective is to find out that the person is safe. 195 00:13:50,275 --> 00:13:52,482 They go search the Upland house. 196 00:13:52,482 --> 00:13:54,172 There was nothing in the house 197 00:13:54,172 --> 00:13:57,310 that showed that there was any foul play. 198 00:13:58,413 --> 00:14:00,827 Didn't seem like there was anything out of the ordinary. 199 00:14:01,931 --> 00:14:05,172 Jack had no relatives here in California, no phone, 200 00:14:05,172 --> 00:14:06,689 no credit cards. 201 00:14:06,689 --> 00:14:12,034 We had spoken with other people from Mount Baldy, and they all 202 00:14:12,034 --> 00:14:14,896 indicated that he didn't make a lot of money, but he had 203 00:14:14,896 --> 00:14:16,344 a lot of money. 204 00:14:16,344 --> 00:14:18,827 He bought the house in Upland for cash. 205 00:14:20,482 --> 00:14:22,241 And the other thing is, 206 00:14:23,172 --> 00:14:24,310 Jack didn't hide it. 207 00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:27,000 They said that it was not unusual for him to pull 208 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,379 his wallet out and tell people, 209 00:14:28,379 --> 00:14:30,896 "I'm OK. I've got plenty of money." 210 00:14:30,896 --> 00:14:34,448 They said that he just spent so little, that it accumulated 211 00:14:34,448 --> 00:14:36,586 over his life. 212 00:14:36,586 --> 00:14:39,827 So certainly there was a possibility that Jack had 213 00:14:39,827 --> 00:14:42,655 actually gone off in some city because he had had 214 00:14:42,655 --> 00:14:44,793 the resources to do that. 215 00:14:44,793 --> 00:14:49,000 He could have taken a vacation, and he is where 216 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,586 he has chosen to be. 217 00:14:50,586 --> 00:14:53,448 We put out the national feelers. 218 00:14:53,448 --> 00:14:56,379 We've contacted the LA County morgue. 219 00:14:56,379 --> 00:15:00,724 There's no unclaimed bodies that match his description. 220 00:15:01,689 --> 00:15:06,068 There is nothing to indicate where Jack might be. 221 00:15:06,068 --> 00:15:09,379 So they felt that Jack was still alive, 222 00:15:09,379 --> 00:15:10,758 out there somewhere. 223 00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:15,241 So his information was in a national computer system 224 00:15:15,241 --> 00:15:19,241 where any law enforcement officer in the country were to 225 00:15:19,241 --> 00:15:21,241 run his name, we would be contacted. 226 00:15:29,310 --> 00:15:33,000 Marcia and Judy knew that Jack simply didn't want them there. 227 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,758 They were trying to build a quiet nest for themselves 228 00:15:39,758 --> 00:15:42,103 where they felt comfortable being in 229 00:15:42,103 --> 00:15:43,620 their open relationship. 230 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,448 Being alone in a mountainous area, 231 00:15:51,482 --> 00:15:53,931 there aren't a lot of people around. 232 00:15:56,206 --> 00:15:59,448 While that might have a beautiful side, 233 00:16:01,206 --> 00:16:04,517 it also has a very dark side. 234 00:16:06,793 --> 00:16:10,241 It would be very difficult if somebody were 235 00:16:10,241 --> 00:16:12,206 in trouble up there. 236 00:16:12,896 --> 00:16:16,896 You just wouldn't really hear somebody yelling, 237 00:16:17,586 --> 00:16:18,931 screaming, 238 00:16:19,482 --> 00:16:24,137 unless you were right there witnessing it all. 239 00:16:51,172 --> 00:16:55,793 Just by the nature of living in such a place like Mount Baldy, 240 00:16:58,655 --> 00:17:00,689 without having company, 241 00:17:01,965 --> 00:17:04,724 or without there being lots of people around, 242 00:17:06,103 --> 00:17:10,000 you can become an easy and likely target for a crime. 243 00:17:19,241 --> 00:17:21,724 There had been a burglary. 244 00:17:27,586 --> 00:17:33,034 A computer and a lot of material things were taken out 245 00:17:33,034 --> 00:17:34,620 of the cabin. 246 00:17:37,793 --> 00:17:41,137 The Sheriff's Department in San Bernardino County came out. 247 00:17:42,793 --> 00:17:45,413 The police did not have any witnesses. 248 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,000 There's no signs of forced entry. 249 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,620 There's no forensic evidence. 250 00:17:54,344 --> 00:17:56,931 They believed that the person or persons who committed 251 00:17:56,931 --> 00:18:00,827 this crime could be from inside the community. 252 00:18:00,827 --> 00:18:04,000 And that brought up all these questions about Jack. 253 00:18:05,068 --> 00:18:07,862 I thought about when Marcia, Jack, and Judy were 254 00:18:07,862 --> 00:18:11,517 fighting outside. Jack was obviously upset. 255 00:18:11,517 --> 00:18:14,310 That whole thing was weird. 256 00:18:15,586 --> 00:18:17,827 Jack disappears and nobody sees him. 257 00:18:17,827 --> 00:18:19,000 Nobody knows where he's at. 258 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,517 And then the cabin is burglarized. 259 00:18:22,862 --> 00:18:25,517 It was possible that Jack wasn't missing, 260 00:18:26,586 --> 00:18:29,103 and, or decided he wanted to come home to his cabin. 261 00:18:34,896 --> 00:18:38,241 Marcia and Judy felt afraid for their safety. 262 00:18:38,241 --> 00:18:42,137 And at that time, they decided it was time to 263 00:18:42,137 --> 00:18:43,482 pack up and leave. 264 00:18:45,551 --> 00:18:48,172 And they gave me their phone number and said, 265 00:18:48,172 --> 00:18:49,620 "Don't give this to anybody else. 266 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:51,620 We're gonna be staying with some friends." 267 00:18:52,655 --> 00:18:55,620 Anytime somebody leaves, you always let your neighbor 268 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:58,275 know, "Hey, I'm going to be out of town for a week, keep an eye 269 00:18:58,275 --> 00:18:59,620 on my cabin." 270 00:18:59,620 --> 00:19:02,793 So I said I would keep an eye on their cabin when they left. 271 00:19:13,689 --> 00:19:17,275 In Southern California, peak season for wildfires is 272 00:19:17,275 --> 00:19:20,137 late summer and into the early fall. 273 00:19:21,896 --> 00:19:24,931 The fire happened in August of 2000. 274 00:19:24,931 --> 00:19:29,137 I ran up the street to see what was going on... 275 00:19:30,724 --> 00:19:32,793 ...and I see this plume of smoke 276 00:19:34,275 --> 00:19:35,827 and it was just black. 277 00:19:37,103 --> 00:19:38,827 It was a terrible fire. 278 00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:46,103 The fire department from all different counties were there. 279 00:19:48,793 --> 00:19:50,931 The community was saved, 280 00:19:53,344 --> 00:19:56,000 and so we were very lucky. 281 00:19:56,793 --> 00:20:01,068 Nobody was inside the cabin. Nobody was injured. 282 00:20:03,137 --> 00:20:06,103 Unfortunately, the cabin was destroyed. 283 00:20:10,275 --> 00:20:12,827 Just a shell of a house. 284 00:20:16,482 --> 00:20:19,586 The insurance company hired a private fire investigator. 285 00:20:20,655 --> 00:20:24,206 But this wasn't the result of a wildfire. 286 00:20:25,862 --> 00:20:29,172 The fire came from the cabin. 287 00:20:32,344 --> 00:20:35,724 When I talked to the fire inspector guy that day, 288 00:20:35,724 --> 00:20:38,137 after the fire and everything was out, and he did his, 289 00:20:38,137 --> 00:20:39,793 you know, report, 290 00:20:41,241 --> 00:20:44,275 and he told me that there was an accelerant. 291 00:20:45,793 --> 00:20:47,931 I thought, oh my god. 292 00:20:49,379 --> 00:20:54,206 So that kind of leaves only one thing, and that being arson. 293 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,517 Judy and Marcia would have to be asking themselves, "Why us?" 294 00:21:00,896 --> 00:21:02,793 That made me very scared. 295 00:21:02,793 --> 00:21:05,413 Because anybody starting a fire up here, it'd be like starting 296 00:21:05,413 --> 00:21:07,275 a fire in their own backyard. 297 00:21:07,275 --> 00:21:09,517 That could have spread real quick. 298 00:21:09,517 --> 00:21:10,793 I can never 299 00:21:11,586 --> 00:21:13,137 imagine someone doing that. 300 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:18,275 It was evident that someone didn't want them there. 301 00:21:19,275 --> 00:21:22,137 And at that time, Marcia and Judy decided it was 302 00:21:22,137 --> 00:21:24,413 time to leave Mount Baldy for good. 303 00:21:27,275 --> 00:21:30,000 And so they moved to the Alpine area. 304 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,206 Then they started a new life. 305 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,965 Jack has been missing for over a year and a half. 306 00:21:43,965 --> 00:21:46,862 And the Upland Police Department had really 307 00:21:46,862 --> 00:21:48,206 hit a wall. 308 00:21:48,206 --> 00:21:52,000 These strange events that have been plaguing the cabin where 309 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,689 Jack Irwin used to live. 310 00:21:54,689 --> 00:21:57,586 There had been a break-in, a burglary. 311 00:21:57,586 --> 00:22:01,827 And then shortly after, there was a suspicious fire. 312 00:22:01,827 --> 00:22:04,689 And the police think that these crimes are connected to 313 00:22:04,689 --> 00:22:06,344 Jack's disappearance. 314 00:22:08,655 --> 00:22:13,103 We made a decision as an agency to bring in the San Bernardino 315 00:22:13,103 --> 00:22:17,000 County District Attorney's Office to investigate further. 316 00:22:20,448 --> 00:22:24,103 Morey Weiss was already up on the mountain, and so he wants 317 00:22:24,103 --> 00:22:27,896 to see the remains of this cabin that's at the center of 318 00:22:27,896 --> 00:22:29,586 all this controversy, 319 00:22:29,586 --> 00:22:32,655 to look for any piece of evidence, 320 00:22:32,655 --> 00:22:33,965 no matter how small. 321 00:22:37,172 --> 00:22:40,655 I went to the cabin alone. It was a mess. 322 00:22:40,655 --> 00:22:43,965 It was burned. It was really burned. 323 00:22:43,965 --> 00:22:47,068 There was a deck on the front of the house, and there was 324 00:22:47,068 --> 00:22:50,517 a storage area underneath that. I found a box 325 00:22:52,586 --> 00:22:56,000 that the fire investigator didn't say anything about. 326 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,000 When Morey Weiss unlocks this box, the investigation went in 327 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000 a direction that was much more sinister. 328 00:23:21,482 --> 00:23:26,413 Morey Weiss was down where Jack's cabin had burned down. 329 00:23:28,586 --> 00:23:30,413 There was a box 330 00:23:31,758 --> 00:23:33,724 that was sitting outside. 331 00:23:35,344 --> 00:23:37,517 I'm not sure how long it had been there, 332 00:23:38,379 --> 00:23:41,275 but there was a number of different types of 333 00:23:41,275 --> 00:23:43,000 paperwork in it. 334 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,000 And I remember going through it and thinking that we may be 335 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,689 starting to look for something a lot more detailed. 336 00:23:50,379 --> 00:23:56,172 Before he went missing, Jack had signed a trust that 337 00:23:56,172 --> 00:24:00,310 named Marcia and Judy as beneficiaries and also gave 338 00:24:00,310 --> 00:24:01,551 them power of attorney. 339 00:24:02,241 --> 00:24:04,758 There's every reason to believe that Jack 340 00:24:04,758 --> 00:24:09,862 voluntarily, and with knowledge signed the power of attorney 341 00:24:09,862 --> 00:24:13,482 knowing exactly what he was doing, which was empowering 342 00:24:13,482 --> 00:24:18,551 Marcia and Judy to spend his funds to support 343 00:24:18,551 --> 00:24:20,137 and benefit him. 344 00:24:21,068 --> 00:24:25,103 I went to the neighborhood. I started talking to neighbors. 345 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,965 Everybody in the mountain knew who Jack was and there were 346 00:24:30,965 --> 00:24:32,034 a lot of things that came out. 347 00:24:32,034 --> 00:24:35,137 That really started to light things up. 348 00:24:36,241 --> 00:24:41,724 After Jack made them his power of attorney, he was complaining 349 00:24:41,724 --> 00:24:47,827 to me that the girls had never made a payment on the house. 350 00:24:47,827 --> 00:24:51,000 Both Judy and Marcia had declared bankruptcy. 351 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,000 So the arrangement they had is that they would pay him $582 352 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,793 a month for ten years, at which time Jack would turn over 353 00:24:58,793 --> 00:25:01,000 the title of the cabin to them. 354 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,482 But in eight months time, they had only made two payments 355 00:25:04,482 --> 00:25:08,344 to Jack, and he wanted his money. 356 00:25:08,344 --> 00:25:12,551 Then I saw new cars parked up at the house. 357 00:25:12,551 --> 00:25:15,586 They had bought a new Jeep and a new Corvette, 358 00:25:15,586 --> 00:25:17,034 a new motorhome. 359 00:25:17,034 --> 00:25:21,172 I mean, these women, when they first came to town, 360 00:25:21,172 --> 00:25:24,275 really didn't seem to have anything. 361 00:25:26,241 --> 00:25:29,000 And so when you started hearing that they were buying all these 362 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,827 things, that made us wonder, OK, where is Jack's money? 363 00:25:35,896 --> 00:25:38,034 I was able to write a search warrant for 364 00:25:38,034 --> 00:25:39,310 the banking information. 365 00:25:43,103 --> 00:25:46,068 And I just started putting spreadsheets together that had 366 00:25:46,068 --> 00:25:48,034 each transaction 367 00:25:48,034 --> 00:25:50,103 and where it went and what it went for. 368 00:25:50,103 --> 00:25:53,965 They took Jack's money, and they immediately spent it 369 00:25:53,965 --> 00:25:55,206 on big purchases-- 370 00:25:56,137 --> 00:25:58,758 a Corvette, the Jeep Wrangler. 371 00:25:58,758 --> 00:26:03,517 After that, there were multiple withdrawals from Jack's account 372 00:26:03,517 --> 00:26:05,103 to Marcia Johnson. 373 00:26:05,896 --> 00:26:08,137 She's taken another $7,500. 374 00:26:08,137 --> 00:26:10,448 Then she's taken another $10,000. 375 00:26:10,448 --> 00:26:14,000 And she kept on just taking more and more and more 376 00:26:15,379 --> 00:26:17,068 until she took it all. 377 00:26:17,068 --> 00:26:21,620 And that led them to me, and Sergeant Bobby Dean. 378 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,137 This is very shocking that these two women thought it was 379 00:26:26,137 --> 00:26:30,517 appropriate to purchase these big items as Jack's trustees. 380 00:26:31,689 --> 00:26:35,344 So at that point, I called Marcia and Judy and said, 381 00:26:35,344 --> 00:26:40,758 "OK, what in these expenses is for the benefit of Jack Irwin?" 382 00:26:40,758 --> 00:26:43,724 Marcia said they had spent a lot of Jack's money buying 383 00:26:43,724 --> 00:26:46,586 computer equipment because she and Jack intended to start 384 00:26:46,586 --> 00:26:50,931 a computer business, and that she bought that Corvette to 385 00:26:50,931 --> 00:26:53,482 take Jack to and from the doctor. 386 00:26:54,793 --> 00:26:57,206 It's something that we didn't believe. 387 00:26:58,379 --> 00:27:00,896 Marcia or Judy made a statement. 388 00:27:00,896 --> 00:27:03,448 "We're on the trust. We didn't do anything wrong." 389 00:27:03,448 --> 00:27:06,103 This was trade fraud, theft. 390 00:27:06,103 --> 00:27:08,482 They were just there to take advantage of him. 391 00:27:08,482 --> 00:27:12,034 I had had some elder abuse cases in my background 392 00:27:12,034 --> 00:27:13,241 that I'd worked. 393 00:27:13,241 --> 00:27:15,620 I told them the attorneys were reviewing the matter, 394 00:27:15,620 --> 00:27:18,655 and I would be in touch with them to let them know if there 395 00:27:18,655 --> 00:27:21,482 was a decision made to file charges or not. 396 00:27:21,482 --> 00:27:25,413 It's difficult for Morey at that point because he can't 397 00:27:25,413 --> 00:27:29,310 dispute Marcia and Judy's statements to prove that those 398 00:27:29,310 --> 00:27:31,068 withdrawals were not authorized. 399 00:27:31,068 --> 00:27:32,827 We've just gotta find Jack. 400 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,034 Jack was very conscious of his money. 401 00:27:36,034 --> 00:27:37,379 He knew how much he had. 402 00:27:37,379 --> 00:27:41,172 And if his money was missing, he was going to be knocking on 403 00:27:41,172 --> 00:27:43,517 somebody's door to find out why. 404 00:27:43,517 --> 00:27:47,413 And we suspected that Jack put the pressure on Judy and Marcia 405 00:27:47,413 --> 00:27:49,724 and wanted to retaliate. 406 00:27:49,724 --> 00:27:51,034 I learned about the burglary. 407 00:27:51,034 --> 00:27:53,137 I knew about the fire. 408 00:27:53,137 --> 00:27:55,724 These crimes went unsolved. 409 00:27:55,724 --> 00:27:57,689 They could never find out who the actual 410 00:27:57,689 --> 00:27:59,275 perpetrators were. 411 00:27:59,275 --> 00:28:02,724 That made us wonder if they had anything to do with Jack. 412 00:28:04,103 --> 00:28:07,620 At that point, Bobby looked at both Chris and I. 413 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:11,793 He said, "This would be a great case for a telephone wiretap." 414 00:28:11,793 --> 00:28:15,689 A wiretap on Marcia and Judy could elicit some statements 415 00:28:15,689 --> 00:28:17,275 that would reveal more information. 416 00:28:21,689 --> 00:28:24,827 This has to be authorized by the courts. 417 00:28:24,827 --> 00:28:28,482 And once it's granted, investigators will use 418 00:28:28,482 --> 00:28:31,827 a strategy that we call "tickling the wire." 419 00:28:33,655 --> 00:28:38,068 Every three days, we were going to initiate some type of 420 00:28:38,068 --> 00:28:39,655 contact with Marcia and Judy 421 00:28:39,655 --> 00:28:42,275 when Marcia and Judy are separate. 422 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,482 They're not aware they're being recorded. 423 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,137 We didn't have a warrant. 424 00:29:25,137 --> 00:29:28,068 I had a charging letter from the District Attorney. 425 00:29:29,275 --> 00:29:31,586 I was parked right around the corner from her house 426 00:29:31,586 --> 00:29:32,758 in Alpine. 427 00:29:32,758 --> 00:29:34,482 So I just drove right around the corner, knocked on 428 00:29:34,482 --> 00:29:36,482 the door, and handed her the letter. 429 00:29:36,482 --> 00:29:38,586 There were a number of charges. 430 00:29:39,344 --> 00:29:42,931 Grand theft, fraud, elder abuse. 431 00:29:46,068 --> 00:29:48,241 On that charging letter, it said that they needed to 432 00:29:48,241 --> 00:29:51,000 surrender themselves to the court in two weeks. 433 00:29:51,862 --> 00:29:55,724 I got back in the car and left, and she's on the phone to Judy. 434 00:30:20,172 --> 00:30:23,827 Marcia, she was pretty shook up about the whole thing. 435 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:28,517 We were hoping to get more information as 436 00:30:28,517 --> 00:30:29,931 the wires continued. 437 00:30:34,172 --> 00:30:36,517 At this point, the investigators turn up 438 00:30:36,517 --> 00:30:39,413 the heat on Judy and Marcia. 439 00:30:39,413 --> 00:30:43,034 After they had moved from the cabin and were living in 440 00:30:43,034 --> 00:30:46,137 Alpine, Judy had been working at the California Department 441 00:30:46,137 --> 00:30:47,000 of Corrections. 442 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,206 The whole place was run by cops. 443 00:30:56,241 --> 00:30:59,241 Me and my partner, Detective Perez, went down 444 00:30:59,241 --> 00:31:03,137 and seized her car, astounded her. 445 00:31:03,137 --> 00:31:04,793 "What do you mean? What are you doing? 446 00:31:04,793 --> 00:31:06,517 Why can't you do this someplace else?" 447 00:31:06,517 --> 00:31:07,965 It was all the plan. 448 00:31:10,137 --> 00:31:13,241 We knew that that was going to require a phone call, 449 00:31:13,241 --> 00:31:16,206 because now Judy needs a ride home. 450 00:31:44,275 --> 00:31:47,344 You try to give them anxiety, because people that are anxious 451 00:31:47,344 --> 00:31:48,862 make mistakes. 452 00:31:50,172 --> 00:31:53,241 On the ride up to get Judy, Marcia called her aunt. 453 00:31:55,172 --> 00:31:57,275 We were monitoring the wires, 454 00:31:57,275 --> 00:31:59,620 and I was in the office when the call came in. 455 00:32:29,172 --> 00:32:32,000 I was in the office, and one of my detectives called me 456 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,689 and said, "Hey, you got to hear this." 457 00:32:53,344 --> 00:32:57,000 Marcia Johnson indicated that she'd killed Jack Irwin. 458 00:32:57,896 --> 00:32:59,413 It was like, wow. 459 00:33:00,172 --> 00:33:03,620 It wasn't like Marcia and Judy took all his money in one day 460 00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:05,379 and left and took off. 461 00:33:05,379 --> 00:33:08,793 They did it over a period of months. 462 00:33:08,793 --> 00:33:11,275 And that would lead trained investigators to say, 463 00:33:11,275 --> 00:33:13,379 they knew he wasn't going to come back. 464 00:33:15,965 --> 00:33:17,551 We hoped that she would turn herself in. 465 00:33:17,551 --> 00:33:18,724 Did we believe it? No. 466 00:33:18,724 --> 00:33:22,275 At that time, the team decided to make the arrest. 467 00:33:30,344 --> 00:33:31,965 She was cooperative. 468 00:33:31,965 --> 00:33:35,344 The main thing she wanted to get across was 469 00:33:35,344 --> 00:33:36,724 Judy had nothing to do with it. 470 00:33:36,724 --> 00:33:38,689 Judy had nothing to do with this. 471 00:33:44,689 --> 00:33:46,586 By the time we get back to San Bernardino, 472 00:33:46,586 --> 00:33:48,413 it's two, three in the morning. 473 00:33:48,413 --> 00:33:50,275 In the interview room, she just 474 00:33:51,344 --> 00:33:52,724 lets it all go. 475 00:34:13,586 --> 00:34:17,482 The reason Jack went to the cabin was because he was 476 00:34:17,482 --> 00:34:18,724 not getting paid. 477 00:34:21,379 --> 00:34:23,172 And there was an argument. 478 00:36:01,172 --> 00:36:05,137 It's really quite remarkable how matter of fact she was. 479 00:36:05,137 --> 00:36:07,000 It's really one of the most 480 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,620 cold-blooded things I've seen in 33 years of police work. 481 00:36:38,689 --> 00:36:43,620 She took all of these body parts down to various parts of 482 00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:47,137 the mountain where she was discarding them. 483 00:36:48,551 --> 00:36:53,758 We spent many days up and down the mountain, but it was so 484 00:36:53,758 --> 00:36:57,620 vast without having an exact location. 485 00:36:57,620 --> 00:36:59,620 It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. 486 00:37:00,655 --> 00:37:03,068 No part of his body has ever been found. 487 00:37:24,551 --> 00:37:29,310 How can anybody in their right mind take a chainsaw, 488 00:37:30,379 --> 00:37:33,655 fire that thing up, and cut somebody up? 489 00:37:33,655 --> 00:37:37,137 I mean, I-- I-- that to me, is just... 490 00:37:38,896 --> 00:37:40,413 ...sick. 491 00:37:42,068 --> 00:37:44,586 And then her attitude afterward, it's like, 492 00:37:45,586 --> 00:37:46,965 I can do whatever I want. 493 00:37:49,068 --> 00:37:53,931 And in addition to confessing to Jack's murder, Marcia admits 494 00:37:53,931 --> 00:37:56,241 that she set fire to the cabin. 495 00:37:57,689 --> 00:38:01,000 She burned the cabin down to make it look like that 496 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,758 they were victims. 497 00:38:03,482 --> 00:38:07,000 Marcia also reveals that this burglary that supposedly took 498 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,034 place in July of 2000, it never happened. 499 00:38:11,034 --> 00:38:15,620 She had hidden the things that she reported as being stolen. 500 00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:18,172 It was done for the purposes of getting insurance money. 501 00:38:19,758 --> 00:38:23,068 Between the money from Jack, insurance claims, 502 00:38:23,068 --> 00:38:24,896 everything they got 503 00:38:25,689 --> 00:38:28,241 came out to around $470,000. 504 00:38:33,172 --> 00:38:35,620 Marcia was charged with murder 505 00:38:36,379 --> 00:38:38,310 and 34 other counts. 506 00:38:39,448 --> 00:38:41,000 She was found guilty of murder, 507 00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:43,448 arson, 508 00:38:43,448 --> 00:38:47,827 grand theft, grand theft auto, insurance fraud, 509 00:38:47,827 --> 00:38:51,827 elder abuse, and false report of a burglary. 510 00:38:51,827 --> 00:38:54,931 She was sentenced to life without possibility of parole. 511 00:39:05,482 --> 00:39:08,172 The District Attorney's Office had determined that they were 512 00:39:08,172 --> 00:39:11,586 going to use Judy Gellert as a witness against 513 00:39:11,586 --> 00:39:15,793 Marcia Johnson, and that she would get a plea deal. 514 00:39:15,793 --> 00:39:18,034 Judy knew about the money. She was there. 515 00:39:18,034 --> 00:39:19,689 She spent it too. 516 00:39:19,689 --> 00:39:22,068 She was part of the whole thing, 517 00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:24,931 so I was very upset about that. 518 00:39:25,689 --> 00:39:29,931 She only wound up pleading guilty to one count of 519 00:39:29,931 --> 00:39:32,379 receiving stolen property. 520 00:39:32,379 --> 00:39:39,310 She was sentenced to 180 days in jail and restitution in 521 00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:41,931 the amount of $150,000. 522 00:39:48,965 --> 00:39:54,034 When I heard that Marcia had been 523 00:39:54,034 --> 00:39:56,379 arrested for Jack's murder, 524 00:39:56,379 --> 00:40:00,103 It was something that I couldn't believe happened. 525 00:40:00,103 --> 00:40:03,965 People in the community all knew that Judy and Marcia 526 00:40:03,965 --> 00:40:05,275 were a couple. 527 00:40:05,275 --> 00:40:10,689 And nobody put them down because of that, not even Jack. 528 00:40:10,689 --> 00:40:14,551 The investigation revealed that Jack was very fond of 529 00:40:14,551 --> 00:40:16,068 Judy and Marcia. 530 00:40:16,068 --> 00:40:19,068 Jack had told me that they had said that 531 00:40:19,068 --> 00:40:21,448 they were family to him. 532 00:40:21,448 --> 00:40:24,655 They were very convincing, and I don't think 533 00:40:24,655 --> 00:40:25,758 he doubted them. 534 00:40:27,137 --> 00:40:29,103 It was all about money, 535 00:40:30,896 --> 00:40:33,724 and he was easy pickings to them. 536 00:40:35,482 --> 00:40:39,000 I just think that's the worst thing you can do to an older 537 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,448 person, because all he wanted was friends. 538 00:40:42,448 --> 00:40:44,793 They tried to be 539 00:40:44,793 --> 00:40:48,896 like they cared about him, and they were not people that 540 00:40:48,896 --> 00:40:50,172 cared about him at all. 541 00:40:52,586 --> 00:40:55,103 There are bad people in the world that have 542 00:40:55,103 --> 00:40:59,620 ill intentions. And it's just tragic. 543 00:41:05,793 --> 00:41:11,931 I was privileged to know Jack. He is godfather to our son. 544 00:41:13,275 --> 00:41:17,000 He was very much a part of our family, 545 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,241 and it wasn't just us. 546 00:41:19,241 --> 00:41:25,275 It was a community that loved Jack and missed him. 547 00:41:25,275 --> 00:41:30,482 More than anything, I remember the love he gave to us, 548 00:41:30,482 --> 00:41:32,448 and that'll never go away. 44253

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