Original subtitles

Kings Rd in Chelsea. I mean, it's hard to think of anywhere more quintessentially British, in fact.

They say it's where Rule Britannia was written.

Is where Mary quant.

Hung out, the Pet Shop Boys met here.

Called the Kings Rd because King Charles the 2nd but.

Wanted a private road between his palaces.

In Whitehall and Hampton Court.

And as luck would have it, en route you just turn off into a side Rd.

And meet with his mistress.

Roads.

Where the most exciting stuff happens, this is where the bohemians hung out, the artists drank, and naughty sex happened.

And although there were many bohemian clubs in Chelsea, there wasn't a pure lesbian one like.

The Chic Lummonocal club in Paris.

But in 1931, a club called the Gateways opened.

To become the most famous lesbian club in the world.

So it was originally a mixed.

Club It attracted people from the.

Actually diverse.

Communities of Chelsea people like Radcliffe Hall and her lover Uno Lady Trowbridge, Trowbridge.

Who lived only a few streets away from the gateways.

What can I say? She was a lesbian novelist, a poet.

Probably best known for her lesbian themed novel, I think the rather depressingly titled.

Well, of loneliness.

And this was the house that she shared with her long time companion, Oona, Lady Trowbridge.

From 1924 to 1928.

What a couple can you just imagine?

Some of the scenes here. The salons, the lunches, the dinner parties.

And then then they would have dressed up in their in their suits, their hats.

Monocles, you know, like you do.

And hailed A Hackney cab to carry them across the borough.

To the Gateways Club.

Anyway, well, Hackney Carver waits to take me back to gangways.

For the first time in over 40 years.

Time I first visited it, it had become a women only club was closed.

Anyone who didn't identify as lesbian.

I.

Well, this is it, but.

Something's not right.

I remember the lamppost.

It's Shone down. That's definitely the door.

Gosh, I'm sure it was green.

What happens to lesbian?

Landmarks in history. They literally get painted over.

But you know.

Every Saturday to do what I like.

I can sort this. Thank you.

See that? That's the power of show business.

You know, there's a, there's a theory that the.

Song The Green Door.

It was actually about this Greenock. I mean, it's just as.

Story but.

Think about stories.

Some of them get hidden, they get covered over.

And particularly the histories of.

I don't know women like me who went to gateways.

And they should be revered. They should not be concealed. I want to go and find them. So I.

Hello there. Hi, I'm Sandy. What's your name? Amanda. Oh, hi, Maddie. You don't listen. Could you just?

Finished painting this door for me.

I've got a history to uncover. It's a secret history of what actually happened behind this green door.

And one coat's fine. I'll be right back.

Well, I hope she doesn't get green paint all over her.

You know, I think it's going to be quite a revealing journey into the secret lesbian history of the gateways.

And I want to hear first hand from other women.

Who visited this iconic lesbian club?

Well, I was a simple country girl.

From all the way from Penzance.

My landlady was lesbian.

Or with her partner, I got Friendlyism.

And uh.

They said. Would you like to come to a club with us?

And I said yes, I'd love to. This was in 1947.

And as we were driving there.

My dad Lady said to me.

You are gay, aren't you?

So I said yes, right? No idea.

Whether I was.

Or whether it showed or anything.

The partner I had at that time.

Partner.

She had a friend who was a gay vicar. He told us about the gateways.

Are familiarly known to us all as the Gates.

With some trepidation, not knowing what.

To expect, really, we took ourselves off.

To Bronson St.

I was first taken to the gateways by somebody called Peter Woodcock.

Who taught graphic design at Camberwell Arts?

School where I was a student, so that would be.

6465.

I first went to the Gateways Club.

In 1985, just after I came out.

At that time, it was all about word of mouth.

So off I went with a few friends one night and.

Realised that I've actually been living.

Two streets away from it.

For the last three years.

What? I told my dad that I was gay.

He's the only thing, the first thing he said is.

Have you been to the gateways?

And I said.

Yes, how do you know about the gateways?

Because when you find it.

You've got this door in the cabinet. Navigate and.

You know, it was kind of weird.

Down those dark, seedy stairs and through the dark's.

CD door. I mean, there was heaven.

Marvellous.

Again.

It was a great place to get off.

A great place to dance.

She rained from the jukebox.

Lots of girls. Lots of young women.

Dancing.

And I looked around and I thought, this is heaven.

I've gone to heaven.OK, I was barred twice.

Trying for dancing suggestive.

And I don't quite know how you dance unsuggestedly.

I mean, the dancing wasn't all the great gate.

Grinding the coffee if they gateways grind very close. Dancing if not actually.

Making love on the dance floor.

Garth Gateways.

What it was?

Dancing with someone who is the right?

Height.

Got into the right position so that when you were dancing.

You could have an orgasm.

The same.

You're not worthy.

It was very surprising first time it happened.

Of course it had its own.

Extra.

Umm.

Vibe because most of the girls were looking around.

And looking at each other, people watching.

People were, you know, it was.

This was before mobile phones or online dating, so.

People were really staring. People would really stare.

And just let you know quite quickly if they.

Found you attractive.

So it was a very high sexual content, I'd say.

I actually felt like I was walking into the lion's den.

It was like.

Meat, young meat, obviously, I felt.

Didn't, but I felt like people sort of swarmed towards me.

But I really went there to pick women up. Really.

You know, I stood at the bar, drank whiskey.

It was a bit like a meat market. You did go down there.

Stand at the bar, somebody would say. Do you want to dance?

I didn't fall in love with anyone in.

I went to bed with them, you know, I.

I think I was. I was promiscuous, but that helped me in some ways.

Go.

So here we are. Here we.

40 years later, thank God.

40 years.

Believe it's that wrong.

I was playing football, club and common up the road and I would come down but.

There was a big movement at the time. I don't know if you remember, but.

Don't come.

To gateways because it was a meat market, yeah.

And I was like, well, I'm a lesbian, so I better get down there.So you did.

I do. Well, there was nowhere really else to go, was there? I came here on holiday.

Got off the.

Trade at Paddington.

And I got into a taxi.

And I said to the driver.

Is there any lesbian clubs? Do you know of any lesbian clubs in?

In London.

Well, yes, there's one off the Kings Rd called the gateways.

Oh, wow. So.

I went out that evening and.

Found it and became a member that night, That very night, which was good.

Brave stories from the gateways lesbians about their proclivities and activities.

Given me an idea.

I need to pick up a fellow traveller.

Hey, Lisa, Lisa Power, come on in.

Hello. Hey, Lisa, come on in. Oh, what we up to?

Well, we are in search.

Of hidden mysteries.

Wow. Well, not mystery.

It's actually not mistress to you and me anyway.

Hopefully I want you to join me in revealing the mysteries.

Remembrance it somehow before it's eradicated from people.

I mean, I'm one of those people who's known that I was gay my entire life is just.

Wasn't ever it was a.

Didn't have to come out to myself.

But when I started to sort of step out into the world.

Probably 781979 something like that.

And I remember going to.

Still a mystery as to how it all started.

Ted and Gina where the club's enigmatic owners.

Going back, I mean, I'm kind of fascinated.

By my father's era in the club.

Because it's, you know, very much before my time.

He's a working class Londoner. He's not in any kind of environment where he probably even.

Encountered a person.

All for that matter, A black person, I don't think.

So he wasn't destined to be someone who?

Went out and embraced diversity. It was out of the.

Betting.

Fraternity.

There was a boxing match.

He was betting against the odds, so he made quite a, you know, quite a big.

There's quite a big win.

And part of what he was given was.

On this basement club.

Than the Kings Rd.

My desire is to believe he bet on the motto and.

It was that punch and Raging Bull that won the gateways.

Now, meanwhile, he hangs out in Soho. He goes to a pub called.

Bag of Nails.

Old old Soho gay scene.

And he knew this group of women.

Lesbian women.

And he was friends with them. And according to my mother.

He was really the only guy they.

Bothered with there was a new ownership at the pub.

And as a husband and wife.

Who took over the pub and the wife?

Did not want the women told them to go.

So they were like, well.

What we're going to do, where are we going to go, you know?

There is nowhere else to go, you know. There's not enough of us to be another place.

And he said, well, I've got this lease on this basement.

And it's an absolute.

That's how they spent the first winter of the gateways and.

They were all, you know, good pals and having a good laugh and gradually the.

And of course, all of his friends from the racing world.

There were a lot of journalists. There were a little, and then the artists were coming in because we would.

Streets up from Chelsea Arts Club.

So you know, I mean those very early days you've.

Augustus John Jacob EP.

Does it remember that all of them had a dab on the walls?

This painting hung in the gateways for as long as I can possibly remember. It was painted by a lady called A woman Called Muriel Mallows.

I don't think she was gay, I said. She used to watch things going on in sketch. Everybody in this painting is a woman.

Including.

Drag kings, possibly trans women.

Except for one figure who had a hat.

The truby hat. And that's my dad.

So it was this, really.

Diverse crowd and the women were the core.

The lesbian Lesbian started it.

It was for them that he got the club.

My mother, she's living with her sister in St. John's Wood. You know, war is done. They're.

Pretty having a pretty good time.

She's she went to the went to the Gate Grace for the first time on her 25th birthday with her sister. They've been shopping in the morning in Chelsea and they went.

They went down for lunch.

The gateways were somewhere they could go as women. They knew they were protected.

They knew they were safe and they had a great time and.

He decided he was going to marry her.

And she secretly, quietly to herself.

Agreed. They had quite a romance. Married quite quickly, so so the the.

The club was ongoing, Mum and Dad were running it together.

I came along in.

1955.

And umm.

They were really pretty happy.

I mean, I remember.

As a small child.

She was gradually taking the gateways more and more.

As he was getting older.

And he was facing out.

And when I was four years old? Umm.

We had an American guest.

It came one evening.

And shortly after moved in and never left.

I think she just was a bridge in our family between my mother and father, between me and my father.

Between me and my mother.

And justice, something about her.

Immensely kind hearted person.

Hugely kind hearted person and.

Love children and such a hard worker, she was so conscientious.

Kushka American military thing.

She and my mother developed a.

Double act in the gateways.

I mean the fun.

You know that they will create.

Was.

Gina was such an individual.

I don't know who she based her character on, but she was.

She was glamorous.

I She should have been.

40s actress Well, she was a 40s actress. What are we talking about?

That she maintained that.

She had style and grace.

Classy broad.

She was a lady, do you know what I mean?

She was. He was rough around the edges, but.

But she thought she was grand.

Bigger than life, basically. I mean there was this, this.

Woman who was.

That it had an air of sophistication.

A very hard, businesslike, business minded woman I would say.

But fun as well.

Gina Rude, like Queen. She moved around like a.

Legally and keeping an eye on everyone.

She was rather terrified.

It was her domain.

Queen and and if she would let you if she wanted you to come in and if she didn't you wouldn't get in.

If you dare do anything wrong.

Thrown out because I remember on one occasion.

Well oiled.

I've been drinking my stepfather's homemade wine.

And I was really.

And I had a couple of beers and I was, I was gone.

And under threw.

Threw me out because it was drunk.

So. So Gina made decisions after.

Come in and who couldn't and?

The first thing are you remember? What's your name?

In.

And then, of course, Smithy behind the bar.

I never had any problems with Smithy She.

Yeah, she always was behind the bath.

She's this strange mixture of being quite jolly.

But also looking forward to death at the same time.

See, all I knew about her was.

Been in the the army.

And in the American army. And she kind of stayed.

A Very.

Very sort of strong Butch. She was quite tall, quite big.

Lady but.

You would think she would be intimidating.

No, I don't think she was.

Smithy was a big softy.

She.

She loved to laugh.

She was very simple in that respect.

Somebody else who wouldn't suffer Fools.

But might listen.

A bit more.

Talk about women.

In ways that.

A couple butchers.

Getting together would.

And that was refreshing.

I needed that, you know, I didn't get that from the English women.

And then I got.

The gateways job.

Smithy was manager and.

Gina had the final say she and my mother became.

Gradually, I think. Great friends.

I think it was huge love between them.

I didn't know.

Whether Smithy was her lover, I mean, that was the big.

And I asked other people to know what no one knew.

I just assumed that they had been very intense.

Relationship as very close friends, although I think Smithy was in love with.

Enough with with Gina, but Gina was married, of course.

And, you know, I think was happily married.

So, you know, maybe she was bisexual, you know?

And I always thought that they were an item.

I think most people thought they were an item, then we just assumed they were together.

Just that. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't.

I wouldn't have thought of asking them.

No way.

You thought that?

Somehow.

Gina was in charge.

And in control.

Whether that?

Is what her daughter remembers.

It would be. It would be interesting to see most of the gateways assumed they were a couple.

They certainly loved each other greatly, but intriguingly what she told me.

Right at the end of her life.

And I'm talking about couple of weeks.

Before she passed away, I said Go on, Mummy.

Tell me because I get asked all the time.

William and Smithy.

You know, together.

I said it's a terrible thing to ask your mother, but tell me.

And because I want to know the truth, you know.

And she said no, we won't.

She said. But everybody thought that was because of me.

And it wasn't. It was because of Smithy.

Smithy stress.

Gina and Smithy may not have been a couple.

They were the epitome.

Of the gateways, Butch, Femme, Code of conduct.

I do think you needed to be in it to understand it.

Now I am of an age where.

Even then, there was a split and there was the women who were supposed supposedly identified as Butch.

And the women who were supposedly identified as famine? I was one of those people.

I didn't feel like I was any of those.

Things at all, and I remember trying.

To go to the bar to get a drink.

But I wasn't Butch enough.

To order a drink.

And all the women who lined the bar.

Laughed at me and said I couldn't possibly buy a beer.

You wouldn't have been allowed to drink pint. You'd have had to have 1/2 pint if you.

But I should wish one of us would be allowed to buy the pint. Would it be?

Quite femme, but.

Definitely butchering behaviour, but I have to say.

I was always very susceptible to woman in a three piece suit.

Well yeah. Oh my goodness, I did have a three piece suit, but I was.

That's too short to be seen over the bar. I went down the club.

Thinking I was was not going to leave.

Until I had at least snogged some.

Glamorous. I mean, the feds.

To them, very glamorous.

So I went over and repeatedly.

And was also repeatedly.

Very Butch lesbians wanted to dance with me, wanted to buy.

Zero interest in SO.

This evening I left very disappointed.

Not what I was looking for. I wasn't looking for this role-playing.

Kind of thing, because there was enough of that in.

In heterosexual system.

And I was.

However, you know, it was a nice.

To be and I kind of settle.

For very strict codes of conduct.

And you did have to.

Of the Butch, the Butch woman.

Wearing men's wear.

To dance.And then the femme woman who is.

You know, got all the hair and makeup.

Looking, Looking. Glamorous.

To be asked to dance.

I think as well something else that's.

Really interesting and important.

About.

Butch Fam dynamics. I think they get a lot of stick.

And I understand why in a way.

The history of Butch family actually has very working class roots.

The more working class women who were stuck to The Who stuck to that.

Whereas there was a smaller group of.

You might say more arty kind of women.

Who were more into?

You know what the 60s seemed to be about, which was more about androgyny and kind of?

Blurring gender.

Stereotypes or getting away from Genderst?

I was in the army in Guildford and and.

Still, in training you aren't allowed off camp unless you are skirt or trouser suit.

So if they were going to.

To London.

They would have a change of clothes with them and get dressed I.

And in the 70s, it was very much a Butch femme thing.

My mother had bought me a burgundy.

And I had some Bergen seed shoes with a black.

Trousers, A green stay, pressed shirt.

And a white kipper tie.

And I thought I looked the bees knees, the real Butch was in town.

And I'm going the Gateways club.

And I really loved it.

And I thought I looked fantastic.

And one of these.

Sergeants from Guildford.

Came over, was talking to me, and she was.

Absolutely gorgeous. And I'm thinking, Oh my God, this is.

His clothes are working.

And when she left, she says.

Don't forget your violin.

Because I look like a gangster.

A lot of women from the army did go, but they.

The SIB, which was for the Special Investigations Branch.

Also send some undercover.

People there as well.

So there was one time when I was called into the SIB and.

When I walked into the office, I looked across and he was this.

Woman that I'd actually been snogging with on the Saturday night.

And her face.

She She wasn't there as an undercover one. ****. But her face.

Turned white when she saw me and realised.

Who who I was, you know, So there was no way we were going to.

Expose each other.

So it was it was a safe haven for us because although.

Lesbians were legal in civilian St.

It was against military law.

What happened in the gateways? Clubs stayed there.

And one night I was coming out of the gateways, you know, we have closed.

I was coming out and I recognised the cops.

So I went.

Can't talk about it, so I said.

Are you looking for someone in particular?

Now why are you sitting outside in the gateways?

What's going on?

So I think every now and then.

They just they didn't harass us.

But they also.

It wasn't comfortable.

Then I discovered that there was a rumour going around.

I was from police.

Now, whether I looked so straight, I don't know.

And of course, people were afraid of being spied on because.

Although it wasn't illegal.

There was a possibility of losing your job.

Or.

Being blackmailed in some way, and you soon learned that.

If you're going to go up the Gateways Club because it is run by Smithy and Gina.

There is not going to be any trouble.

Don't make trouble. You know you'll never come back in if you want to keep going back there.

Then you go with this attitude that you're just going to have good fun, good times and nothing's going to.

Aggravate you in any size, shape or form. You know your worst enemy could be the other side of the club.

And you know that you're just going to enjoy yourself.

And not get into any aggravation.

I was really scared because people like.

If you look at somebody's girlfriend, you'll be in trouble. So I kind of dust.

Still remember as I'm here now.

Walking in and kind of looking at the head down.

Don't look at anyone. Don't look at anyone. I was so scared and I remember someone.

Asking me to dance here.

And I danced, and I asked her her name.

Said I didn't ask you to talk. I asked you to don't.

So it was quite scary sometimes.

There were all sorts of dramas going on at.

Maybe like fights, not not often, but there be sort of scenes going on and a lot of it was to do with jealousy.

But I have to confess.

That Gina had to bar me one night because.

Because there was, obviously.

Something going on between this?

Girlfriend and I and she was down there. I.

I think it might have been.

When they closed up for the night.

And I was banging on the door at the top.

Yeah.

Having a bit of a sort of drunken tantrum because I wanted to speak to her.

And I got barred for a week, I think.

But they were very empathetic.

Dana and Smithy.

And sort of said, I don't know what you're doing.

You're like, you know you're wasting your time.

Oh well, that's when.

He came into her own, she used.

To be in there and.

Break him out. Come on, come on, you know.

Separate everyone out.

So yeah, I was not a fighter.

But there was always.

Keep it down, keep it.

Quiet because.

They had a good relationship with the police.

But.

You know any?

Excuse back in those days to give you any grief and to lose the licence and all the rest of it.

There may have been drama inside the gateways.

The club itself featured in a big screen drama.

In the infamous 1968.

Killing of Sister George.

Killing Sister George is, I think.

A kind of iconic moment in lesbian cinema, I mean.

First of all, think about the date.

This is 1968.

One year after the Wolfenden report, after the decriminalisation of.

Homosexuality.

Obviously that didn't apply to women because women didn't count. But you know, still, this is sort of.

Society at the time.

Would have meant that queer lives generally were hidden underground.

Unaccepted discriminated against so.

Just one year after the law changed to have this film, which is the first.

Film. English language. Film.

Ever featured a kind of?

Strong. Legitimate.

Female lesbian relationship.

Was a really big deal. I think the tagline for the film was something like.

Sending adults.

You know, the privacy of their own homes or something.

I remember seeing the.

The Killing of.

George and and hating it.

Think I subsequently thought again and hated it just as much. Just.

Terrible film.

Umm.

I think one of the troubles is it's scripted by men.

No, no, it's alright having men scripting what they think lesbians are.

But you have to, if it had been against the backdrop of lesbians saying who they were.

So Frank Marcus, who wrote the original?

Stage play. There's quite a lot of rumour around why he wrote it and.

Why he made the relationships.

Specifically lesbian. The implication was that his wife who was an actress at the time.

Was apparently a client of the Gateway Club and you know, enjoyed the company of ladies.

So I think there's lots of really incredible things to talk about with this film.

The biggest of those I think is the fact that they shot the gateway sequence this 10 minutes.

Pivotal sequence in the middle of the film.

In the actual real life Gateways Club.

Not only that, they used the actual real life gateways, clientele, the Saturday night crowd.

As extras in the film. What is less clear about why?

The clientele.

Agreed to be on camera.

What I imagine none of them imagined was.

Who would have seen the film?

Because.

I think there's a dislocate between.

Sort of sitting in going to the club that they always go to on a Saturday night.

And yes, there being a film crew there filming them.

And then the idea that actually people in cinemas and on TV screens.

The world over are then going to see them.

I think that probably those connections haven't been made.

Question a little bit about.

Ethics of the filmmaking team at this.

Point, actually, and the ethics.

Of the management of the Gateway Club.

Bob Aldrich approached.

Approached my mother.

He pitched her to her that.

He would like to film in.

In the club.

And she.

As is fairly well known.

Said to him Will.

Why have extras for every girl in here? All my members need need a day's work.

In any case.

You know, they should play themselves.

They should be themselves if you want it to be authentic.Smithy said that.

Found that kind of hilarious because obviously.

They didn't have acting experience. Well, Gina had acting experience.

Yes, I think so.

Face Carl Brown for that film.

Said no. She studied Gina a bit, but I mean.

Coral Brown in the killing of Sister George, rather reminded me of.

Gina that rather.

Glamorous.

Sort of in command person.

I think they really made the best of using the real people, the real gateways, regulars.

And you know, did lots of tricky things with with them. There's a sequence here where.

Two of the regulars are dancing together. One looks over the other's shoulder and just.

Because a little wink blows a little kiss.

And then the film cuts to a rather shocked looking Mrs Croft girl Brown.

You know.

I'm not sure that that that was actually what was happening at the time that's.

Certainly the way the film makers interpreted it.

The sequence where Mrs Croft enters the gateway for the.

And makes her play.

Between, you know what happens in real life.

And actually, what Robert Aldridge, the director?

How he directed her to.

Because actually, what would have happened had she really been this?

Pretty Woman entering this particular club past these two stone butches.

They would have stepped aside.

They would have welcomed her into the club they would have.

You know, etiquette would have demanded. They would have stepped aside.

And it was much of A seizure than it looked in the film, I think.

Very seedy lavatories.

Quite a good place to.

Get up to things.

One of the great kind of trivia moments of the film is when they pick up the phone actually give.

The gateway phone number and the number they give.

Is the real, was the real gateway phone number? People quickly caught and Donna actually was the phone number.

The one I used to find my mum on at night.

Through.

It was absolutely swamped.

And people came from all over the world.

They had a pretty.

Amazing time writers. Time doing it.

Barry's not not queer.

You know, there is no suggestion that she ever was.

But I think what she is is actually a really good actor.

And you know, she performed her.

I, you know, want to think.

It was a right laugh.

I imagine the clientele gateways probably really embraced her, you see.

The photo of the of them giving her birthday cake.

Now.

I think that's probably because they recognise one of their own there I.

The cast of the movie were the only famous names.

I used to just rush over if I saw an attractive.

And asked to buy them a drink. One of my first successes after many, many failures.

Was with someone called. She was calling herself at the time, Lindy Sinclair.

What? She told me that she had a private income and.

She lived in a muse house.

Believed. Well, believed every word, she said. But actually, it turned out.

She was a professional tricks.

Called Madam Whiplash.

And later, she actually stood for Parliament.

The matter the Madam Whiplash party of.

A lot of her clients would.

Counsellors, very high profile.

When I first went round to her, her flat.

And.

She had.

I just thought it was absolute heaven.

You know, latex, rubber, leather.

Leather leather.

And we had a lot of fun.

Had an affair with.

A much older woman and.

Was very was very famous.

Very beautiful. Her name was June.

And she had been married to Winston Churchill's son, Randall.

It was all very exciting.

And and she she was the first person who took me to the gateways.

And so I wouldn't really.

Scared about it?

We just sort of.

Fell down the stairs and.

You know everything. Everything.

From there, so the thing about the gateway.

Was that it was a sort of rather magical.

Go into the gateways.

Either totally be yourself, your authentic self.

In a way that you perhaps couldn't be on the street.

Or you could absolutely reinvent yourself and be.

Someone completely different who you may be wanted to be.

One night and one of the people I met.

Someone, a woman who approached me.

Who? Who absolutely wasn't.

Type and who was rather rude and.

To me was oh, you're such a Pretty Little.

So I immediately did.

Cheer up a bit. I might even put you in one of my books and I just sloped off. But then they.

Island. She's a famous person, I thought. Damn.Because I've never actually met.

But I suppose I sort of thought that everyone was a famous person.

I don't know.

Oh, yes.By this time, Patricia Highsmith was best known for her best selling lesbian novel.

And I do remember seeing there was.

Fisher Highsmith.

One evening I remember she was wearing dark glasses and.

Standing at the back of the room and umm.

Surveying it.

This was her tribe, I suppose.

Same way for us all and.

Right at the end of her life.

In the last couple of weeks before my mother died, I.

Spent as much time as I could with her, you know she was fading.

She was getting old.

And she and I were sat there one night and we were going through the.

The gateways over the years.

And dozing in front of the television, both of us.

Frail by this point, it was an old Stones clip came on on the TV.

Oh, it was lovely. He used to talk to me outside the gateway, as you know.

I'll wear a dress.

And it was after.

They had this.

There'd been this big stink about.

You know, is this a women's couple, isn't it? Women's club? You know, are we letting men in or not?

But she'd had to draw a line.

And at that point was sticking to it, you know?

As honourably as she could.

Famous customers or not, it was the gateways. Its.

Finding its place in popular culture.

I found the man alive clips kind of horribly fascinating.

Means that for lesbians who want to relax and the.

Them is a club in Chelsea, a place where there's no longer any need.

There they can dance.

Discuss their problem with others who.

There's basically the posh bird. He's doing the interview.

End of this whole.

Episode of talking to these lesbians in these lives, you kind of sense that?

She kind of fancies, you know, running off and trying a bit herself because.

She called these like look and she's looking at this.

Listen to this tragedy. These lesbians understand how marriage might disturb.

They have married and tried to live normally. It's incredibly moving.

And and sort of shocking.

But I was impressed that they name check the gateways on.

That line? All lesbians of her.

Say no, I'm not lesbian.

And they go and the other one says only.

So that was interesting.

And the Kazan transgression is so exciting, right?

So the gateways grind.

So we didn't see that on call the midwife unfortunately.

Green Door, that song.

Stevens, you know.

Did the song that people know about?

And then, you know, some people have said, Oh no, it's about prohibition in America. But, you know, I think, you know, we can appropriate his.

And also I think that the synchronicity is very interesting.

That because the the original lyrics and just saying Joe sent you, we got referring to Joe Meek.

Then, of course, Joe Meek was this big music producer who.

You know he did the Frankie.

Vaughan version.

And so people have sort of looked at that. And of course, Joe Meet was gay.

For in there.

In the 50s and stuff.

What my mother told me was that Joe told her.

He producing.

Co written it with.

Somebody else, an American guy.

Frankie Vaughan.

Going to do it in the UK.

Called the Green Door and it was about the gateways.

That's what I was told.

Other people say no, it was written about a club in Saint Louis or.

There's various different stories.

Jeremy told my mother that.

So green was the colour of the sort of Speakeasy this or the.

The naughty place to go and.

Certainly there's an element of.

Speakeasy with a with a.

So sexy and mysterious twist.

Because it's lesbian Speakeasy.

The original speakeasies.Gateways.

Prior to.

The late 1980s.

Needed to. Uh uh.

Envelope everybody.And.

There were definitely.

Made it their their.

To go and it was classless.

There were upper middle class girls.

Actually, classes.

What they had in common.

They were lesbian.And propping up the bar was just a.

What's always this line of?

I especially would call them bulldokes.

Really are in crops and ties and suits and all of that.

They nearly all seemed to be swimming pool at.

For the first few weeks, because once I you know.

Become a member.

I spent a.

Great many evenings there and.

People would ask me what I did.

I said I was a swimming pool attendant because I thought that was the thing to say.

But then if anybody asked me.

Kind of technical question or when I was on duty because it was hopeless.

Because I actually can't even swim.

It's probably why I paid the C so much, you know.

I can't even saw him.

On the.

As an art student, your name.

I think one of the reasons to.

To really celebrate and to remember as.

Is at least there was somewhere.

Sort of, isn't it? It's weirdly it's easier now, but it's also more difficult 'cause there isn't.

The place like that anymore is that places were hidden and.

Only known by the IN crowd.

But they existed.

And I think that.

Things have changed. Great deal.

In that time.

And things are much more open now, but equally there are far less.

Explicitly lesbian, explicitly gay venues and they used to be.

I don't know where you'd go to meet. I mean, I'm happily married, so I'm fine, but I don't know where you'd go to meet.

Somebody now, oh, I always went to voluntary organisations switchboard.

Gaze the word lesbian discussion group. Or you can pick up a good woman over an argument.

I think there was an innocence.

Was innocence.

When I'm saying about it being conservative.I think.

Smithy and Gina just wanted to keep those times as they were with that.

Without having to think about.

Feminism and.

Women's liberation and that kind of thing.

The first time I went to gateways, I was actually thrown out.

I mean, I knew I loved you. Now I adore you.

Entirely unintentional. Was trying to go in. I wasn't trying to make trouble.

I was with a friend, Jill Posner.

Later became very, very famous photographer.

But she'd just written.

The first lesbian.

Be in play that was for.

Formed by gay sweep.

Called any woman Cans.

So what? What year are we talking about? We're talking 1970.

Think thereabouts.

And.

We I was helping her put up posters.

In lesbian venues in London. Except that lots of the lesbian venues.

Such as they existed, tiny drinking clubs in Soho and so on.

Didn't want them and we came to the gateways and we because it was too obvious.

Because they didn't want anyone to talk about lesbianism or to.

It was too showy.

Girls, girls should be discreet. Be the line.

So we got halfway downstairs at.

Gateways and and Jill started putting up poster on the.

Stairway and.

Bustled out but.

I was allowed to go back later on when I was.

Volunteering on gay switchboard because?

Men in on a Sunday lunchtime.

And the lesbians of.

Then gay switchboard became lesbian and gay switchboard.

So that they could see what the gateways was like and describe it to the lesbian callers who wanted to know what they'd be getting practical.

It in both directions. I mean you know I got dragged to various.

Gay clubs. The ones that would let women in, because a lot of them.

And equally we, you know, we, we.

And why should it be?

Leaflets or talk about GLF and said more women should.Join GLF.

And I think she said to me, I'd like to.

Really understand why they would be so angry.

Organised and included men and so we went back to outside the gate gateways.

People were arrested, I think One thing about the gateway.

Made it seem.

Under the counter or can.

Sealed and.

Clear. But it was about that one of the things that was kind of misunderstood about the gateways when people came down complaining about it being.

People there were women.

And they wouldn't have had their children if.

Their rotten.

Estranged husbands?

Because.

You know, these these things weren't always very merry.

And friendly and.

You know you only have to go to court and say, well, she goes to the gateways.

She's.

And that would be it. You'd lose your children.

It wasn't something you could risk.

So the gateways was necessarily protected and careful.

You know, losing your kids is just not negotiable. I.

Care what you know.

Anyone says.

So no, people weren't out. They were.

Very cautious when they were raising their.

You know, when their children were young.

My mother was very close friends.

Gina and Smithy.

And there was a kind of a crowd, and in crowd.

All about the same age.

Quite a few of them had children, Andrew and I.

Were very much.

I think, as he would say, children of the gateways.

Our mothers were very good friends.

His mother became a very good friend of mine.

Stay with her with her partner Joe.

They've been together many years.

Great love between those two.

Two good women.

Went through a lot together and and survived it, made it.

And she had her two boys.

My mother's sister of.

Who's going to see this? My mother's sister.

Umm.

Put my father.

To accusing my mother.

Being a wicked woman in court.

But anyway, whatever it was but adultery with another woman.

So. But the judge was outraged. He was completely outraged.

Because my father had not looked after us.

And my mother was wicked.

So we were made wards of core.

The agreement was number custody for either parent.

So we just went back to live with my mother, but we were told don't tell anyone.

Don't speak about it.

You're allowed to.

You know, because if.

It was found that we were gay at that time. You could lose your job.

You would lose.

If they found out and.

You would lose your flat as well.

And so.

You know, I mean, a lot of the girls they had.

Terrible jobs.

I don't know if I should mention this.

Some of them had to be on the game.

On you.

Nothing else they could, really.

Do that would pay the bills.

For many people, they'd been thrown out. They'd been told to never.

You know, they didn't have any family connection.

So you know, what was the alternative? Living at?

Misery and social isolation.

So without places like the gateways, honestly we wouldn't, we wouldn't have had.

The ability to come together and and and be together.

So my best friend I met at the gateways, I was 17, she was 19. She's.

Many, many friendships and relationships were forged.

Won and lost.

At that club.

And we have to remember that.

For a lot of the time that gateways was extremely popular.

It was a place of sanctuary.

In a world that didn't want us.

Or where we were completely invisible. Because when I think about 1979 was.

Probably the first time I ever went to gateways.

Was also the same year that my Cambridge college did.

Decided they wanted to expel me because they had discovered I was a lesbian.

In the end, they didn't do it.

Because of my excellent academic record.

So if you're going to be gay, at least be clever about it.

But I remember going with the.

Feeling that I had been excluded from society.

Where I could at least be.

For an hour or two.

Absolutely.

So I have to be glad that things have changed that much.

Never thought 40 years later.

And I have a family and all of the.

Scared and frightened 21 year old.

So it came to an end in 1985.

My dad died in 1979. My mum and Smithy were getting older and it was.

Time to stop.

They'd been running the club together for over 25 years from.

They were opened seven days a week.

And they wanted it to end with a bang.

I did go back for the closing party.

Which was really, really memorable and absolutely rammed.

You know women were spilling out of the club.

Coffee for starting off the.

Begun, you know, at, I guess an early hour.

Very celebratory.It was very.

Fun again, as was always the case, and lots of drinking and that sort of thing.

Never to be replaced.

I'm just smiling, thinking about the times, you know.

Yeah, it was really good, Really good.

Should be revered.

Should be revered.

And I do know a lot of people don't know it even existed. It would be a crime against.

One of the ways in which English Heritage commemorates famous people is they put up a blue plaque to them.

I do think it'll surprise anybody. Most of these plants are for men.

Interesting thing is there's a lot of gay men as.

While I'm Forster, Ivan Novello, Kenneth Williams, Alan Turing.

Where are the Lesbians and Lesbian landmarks?

I think it wonderful if there's a.

Umm because.

You know, there's there's a.

In many ways, it speaks of hindsight.

And it's good that the.

That one looks at the gateways with hindsight, because.

Why should I should?

That you're lesbian mean that you.

Drawing a line under the.

Thing of invisible.

Have to have a past in order to have a.

Present and the future.

And for that reason, yes, a large blue.

Will it have Gina and Smithy on it?

I think it would be.

Person in the world if gateways.

Reopened and got resurrected.

Somebody has to stand up for that.

Smelly little basement.

Where life happened and you know, gay women.

When there was no place else.

Create their relationships and.

And grow businesses.

You know, become women that they weren't.

Specially expected to be when they started.

Because they had that base, it was tremendous.

And for the.

The lesbian era.

Where the ******** didn't have the upper hand.

Are you ready, Lisa? Let's do this.

The decision to award gateways of Blue plaque.

Still pending.

We are very hopeful that it will be awarded because, as we have seen, there are simply not enough.

Spaces or places? Places.

That lesbians have Li.

Loved and worked that have been commemorated.

And as we've heard.

There are hundreds of lesbians who have lived loved.

Danced. Talked, fought.

And been seen, felt safe, been themselves.

Including me.

Beyond that green door.

So in their name, all those brave women who walked through that door and down the street.

Stairs those walked for.

Walked with us and.

And those who will walk after us.

My wife.

In their name, we are putting up this temporary blue plaque.

Until the permanent one.

Is awarded.