All language subtitles for 03.The Dark Side of Porn 3of9 Debbie Does Dallas Uncovered (eng)

Teenagers, young girls.

Problems. They got problems.

They find solution to
problems through sex.

And that's the
premise of the story.

A lot of the girls and guys
had their heads on straight and

understood what they were doing.

It was business. A
lot of them didn't.

We had a lot of sad injuries.

People get addicted
to this sort of thing.

It's like getting addicted
to narcotics or liquor.

It can be fatal.

There's no advantages that I can see
except making money for the underworld.

Debbie, I'm so proud of you.
What do you think of, daddy?

Debbie Does Dallas, released
in nineteen seventy eight,

is one of the top five grossing
porn films of all time.

Over the years, millions
of people have seen it.

Millions more have heard
of its catchy title.

Few, however, are aware of the dark
history connected to this piece of

standard seventies porn.

The film isn't famous
for what's in it,

but for what happened
to it after its release.

Don't get college bumpy.

A high profile court case involving
America's leading football team,

the sudden death of a mafia
boss during an FBI raid,

a drugs overdose,

and the mystery surrounding the
disappearance of Bambi Woods,

its leading lady.

These are the ingredients that
make up the mythology of the film.

Twenty seven years on,

we decided to try and track
down everyone involved in the

film so they could tell us in
their own words what really

happened after
Debbie did Dallas.

It wasn't an easy job as many
had changed their names and

identities since
their porn days.

The person we wanted to talk
to the most was the director of

Debbie Dastalas.

We met up with him in the deep
south of the US in Savannah,

Georgia.

These days, he's a
respectable businessman,

and one of the conditions
for him giving this interview was

that we didn't
use his real name.

He wanted to be
known as Jim Clark,

the name that appears
on the credits of Debit.

Get the business you get He
was in Savannah on Business,

and that's where he finally
consented to give us an interview.

With that half a ton trying to
Jim Clark didn't conform to the

image of a sleazy pornographer.

He began his career in the New
York radical press of the sixties.

By the seventies,

he was making both porn and
legitimate films in New York.

His porn work was financed
by Mickey Zaffirano,

a high ranking mafia boss.

Zaffirano had risen in the mob
to be one of New York's most

powerful pornographers.

I'm from the godfather of
a generation, you know.

I mean for me,

the so called mafia
or whatever it is that

control the kind of
what I call black

market or underground
or whatever it is,

these guys who were very
powerful at that time

were simply to me
another country.

They had their own set of rules.

They had their own
administration.

Everything was set up
accordingly so that

their way of life could

Texas to be a Texas cowgirl,
and we don't have any money.

It was while he was planning
a film for Zaffarano called

Teenage Services that the
idea for Debbie was born.

And, a young woman came into,

the studio that I was working
in at the time and told me her

story of, woah, coming
back from, Dallas.

But I've got a warning I'm trying
out for the cheerleaders now.

In the box.

So I called up, my partner at
the time, and I said, you know,

I I got an idea. Why don't
we scrap this and we'll do this?

He says, sounds like
a good idea to me.

And that's how it was born.

It was really born out
of her personality.

She was as bubbly as you could
get and seems to be healthy in

her attitude towards,

it's actually the only thing
that she had a problem with

that I was not aware
of at the time,

where she had a drug problem.

This is Bambi Woods, by the way.

This is Bambi Woods.

I named her Bambi
Woods, by the way.

There wasn't any real
reason behind it.

Bambi, a deer in the woods.

I mean, you you
wanna get deeper?

Mickey came to me
one day and he says,

what do you think it is?

I said, what? He says,
Debbie does Dallas.

I said, it doesn't make
any sense grammatically.

He says, yeah. That's why
people are gonna like it.

And he was right.

He was a brilliant man.

Debbie, what are you gonna
do? Raise some money fast.

When do you have to
leave? In two weeks.

The plot was simplicity itself.

Debbie wants to become a
cheerleader for the Texas

cowboys football team, but has
no money to make the journey.

Her college girlfriends
decide to help out,

and they find selling
themselves for sex is the most

lucrative method of
raising the cash.

We've never done anything like
this before, mister Bradley.

You're our very first customer.

It was shot entirely in New
York where the filmmakers

constantly ran the risk of being
busted under obscenity laws.

Debbie Does Dallas was not a,

movie which had a massive
dress rehearsal nor script.

It was a cute little fun TNA,

twister little movie by
Car Wash, like teeny buns,

like all the little pair of these
that they did in their seventies.

And that's pretty much
what the seventies were.

Evenings and
especially on weekends.

Weekends Here are my
friends. Here I am.

Babysitter and hopes
to stop Hey. Look.

I don't like anyone in
the burn on my date night,

at least before my date herself.

Look. They think they can boost
her morale if they go with her.

After all, she's so These are some
of my closest friends right here.

One's a doctor. One's a
writer in the Bay Area.

Hey, Mark. I'm a
Hey, buddy, man. Hi.

Government says Here I
am indicating everything.

Porno acting. It's a great
school of acting, really.

Would be proud.

It was sort of like a catch
as you can, location shoot.

We found places that we really
weren't supposed to be in,

and I guess the, producer
director saved money.

And, of course, we took the risk
of being busted, but we weren't.

And you think maybe you got
a couple of hundred dollars for

this, if that?

I probably got a hundred fifty
a day. Probably what I got.

Maybe two hundred.

So if I was on this film a
couple I I maybe I made five

hundred on this movie,

which in today's dollars
would be six hundred.

This is my scene.
I can see that.

Now I really feel bad.
I'm going to hear you bad.

My, mister Greenfield.
How big you are.

I've always dreamed of
being a quarterback.

I am making love to the
captain of the cheerleaders.

I always felt like
a stunt worker.

Sex scenes didn't
seem to be like sex.

It was more like stunt work.

You know?

Because you weren't sure if
you could pull the trick off of

being able to perform, you know,

in front of everybody.

You're always
worried about that.

It was one of the
few sex scenes that

I felt good about.

I didn't feel it was
slimy or she was too,

innocent for it to be vulgar.

Am I interrupting
something? Uh-huh.

Please let me interrupt anyway.
Oh, so do you have a go away?

There I am. Oh, my God.

I don't know.

I mean, I look at myself
in this movie and,

it's it's almost embarrassing,
first of all, the hairstyle.

Twenty five years ago, my God.

That's supposedly
my wife, Robin Byrd.

I played, missus Hardwick.

Missus Hardwick was the
owner of the candle shop

with mister Hardwick,
who was Eric Edwards.

And he was mister
Hardwick. Get it?

Hardwick candle shop.

I remember doing this

and,

and bring out the old candle.

Okay.

And, well, that's
just about enough.

This is about where I
normally would fast forward.

With the film finished,

Clark and Zaffirano set about
making this production line

porn movie into one of the most
infamous films of the seventies.

In the next part,

we'll find out how they did it
and how an undercover FBI sting

the Debbie story.

In nineteen seventy
eight, Debbie Does Dallas,

one of the most famous
porn titles of all time,

was about to go on release.

This was the era before home
video and Debbie was to play in

porn cinemas across the US.

Director Jim Clark and mob
financier Mickey Zaffirano came

up with a marketing strategy that
would ensure the film's success.

I knew that it would
make a lot of money,

and I didn't think it would make a
lot of money because of what I did.

But Mickey came up
with the, poster,

and I looked at the poster.

In those days, I think I was
smart enough to know, you know,

what would and
what wouldn't work.

I said, wow. This is
gonna be a big success.

I never met Bambi
Woods. You know?

I saw the film afterwards,

and I regretted not meeting her
because the I think one thing

that that works about this film,

even though technically
speaking, it's,

you know I mean, come on.

It's a porno film.

It's not it's not good
on on many levels.

But the fact that that that you
this girl is the object of the

viewer's desire, and no one
actually gets to have sex with

her really created
a great tease.

I mean, back then,

Bambi Woods was considered really
beautiful for this business.

There were there weren't a lot
of great looking women that

went to do this.

Bambi was the girl next
door. She was a cheerleader.

She had that cheerleader

look.

She had that girl
next door look.

Girl next door look is the girl
next door look is still the

most single faceted thing
in the porno industry.

There's an old saying,

anyone can no one wants to wanna
watch to see the horror get fucked.

They wanna see the girl
next door gets screwed.

Debbie Does Dallas used an all
American icon, the cheerleader.

Not only that, the cheerleader uniforms
look suspiciously like those of

America's number one
football team at the time,

the Dallas Cowboys.

A lawsuit was soon on its way
to the makers of the film.

The basic idea in those days
was to get people to sue you.

I mean, if you can
get them to sue you,

and that's free publicity.

And the longer you
could keep that running,

the more attention the film got
and the more money you made.

The Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders
were huge at that point.

I mean, they were like
the biggest thing.

So this this is the
oh, look. There's Eric.

That's one of the main reasons
this was such a big hit because

it traded in on
the Dallas thing.

It was just a brilliant move.

Remember the Dallas cheerleaders
were totally sold on sex.

Wasn't that the first?
That was sold on sex.

You didn't see an ugly fat girl
being a Dallas cheerleader.

Come on.

Sex is the primary seller of anything
in the entertainment industry.

This created a chain of events
which did nothing but propel the,

the notoriety and the huge
popularity of this minuscule

little film that by all means
should have fizzled away.

The first installment of the
film's notoriety had been the

court case brought by the
Dallas cowboy cheerleaders.

Over a thousand miles from
New York in Miami, Florida,

an FBI agent was planning the
second installment and it would

involve the film's
financier, Mickey Zaffirano.

Used to go to their conventions
openly and take pictures of

them and talk to them.

They didn't much like it,
but they all knew who I was.

Bill Kelly, because of the
war he had waged on porn,

was known and feared by
every pornographer in the US.

I've probably looked at
more hardcore obscenity than

probably any law enforcement
officer in the history of the

United States.

Not the only thing that,

bothers me are people
having sex with snakes

or,

defecation films bother me.

Urination doesn't.

Vomit films, they
bother me a little bit.

And child pornography,
I get upset with

depending upon what's involved
in the child pornography.

But now I can sit
there, you know,

I've I've had people vomit on me in
court while I was showing the film.

I got too close to a lady juror
one time and she vomited right

down the back of my neck.

Well, that's the kind of
people I want on juries,

but it isn't it's kinda
hard on the clothes.

People get addicted
to this sort of thing,

and it's like getting addicted
to narcotics or liquor.

It's not helpful no matter what
doctor Kinsey might have said

about it fifty years ago.

There's no advantages that I can see
except making money for the underworld.

It was with films like Debbie
Does Dallas that the mob

realized what huge profits
could be made from porn films.

Fearing that the situation
was getting out of control,

the FBI sanctioned an
operation called MyPorn,

short for Miami Pornography.

For the first time
in its history,

it allowed agents to go
undercover in an obscenity case.

In August of nineteen
seventy seven,

the bureau transferred
Patrick Livingston,

who was then in Detroit, to
Miami, and Bruce Olavsky,

who I think was in New York,
I'm not sure where he was,

down here to be trained
by me to be undercover

pornographers, to
penetrate the national,

level of of high ranking
organized crime figure.

Well, that's an unusual request.

That never happened
in the FBI before.

Well, I know how to do it.

I mean, I know how
to be a pornographer,

but I couldn't be because
everybody in the business knew

me either by sight
or by reputation.

From Miami, we traveled to Orlando
to speak to one of the agents,

Pat Livingston.

He'd never gone on camera
before about my port.

After the strain of spending
three years undercover,

he'd rebuilt his
life as a golf pro.

But he agreed to talk to us
about the times when he played

the part of mob wise
guy, Pat Salamone.

You had to be consistent
in everything you did.

You know, if you're a golfer,

you better be able to play golf.

If you said you were something,

you'd better be able
to to back that up.

They knew my criminal record
in Detroit better than I did.

I forgot a couple
because it was made up.

They knew about it. He
was asking me about it.

But what about this
one? I said, yeah.

Yeah. That's right. I mean, you
know, you do it so many times.

You forget one or two.

They knew it they knew it to
the to the and the letter.

They were in serious

danger of of being either
physically destroyed,

damaged, or killed during
that entire period.

It was risky business because
a lot of these guys had violent

records themselves or were tied
in with people that would kill

you just like like that.

How dangerous were the
people that you were dealing?

Dangerous. Well, okay.

There were four or five
wise guy joints in Miami.

One of them was a
bridge restaurant.

Went to the bridge restaurant,
and the style there was,

you know, you come in, you're
supposed to be Pat Saloni, the,

you know, the wise guy.

Two guys are there,

pull out a gun, say, let's go.

Take me out the back
door, throw me in a car.

We drive out west
of Fort Lauderdale,

turn off on a a sand
road, get out of the car,

they take a shovel
out of the trunk,

and they tell me
to start digging.

And the only the only chance
I had was to be Pat Salimoni.

Didn't have a gun, couldn't
tell him I was an agent,

couldn't tell him
I was an informant.

The only the only way you could
survive is to be who you were.

It got down to calf level,
and they said, fine.

Okay.

Threw the shovel and
trunk, got back in the car,

went back to the bridge
restaurant, walk in,

and Di Bernardo's
sitting at the table.

He ushered me over, sat
me down, and we talked,

and he's just like, you
know, walk my board.

Just wanted to see how
you could handle it.

And then ate with him, and
it was like eating cardboard.

Because I've been scared
a lot of times, lately,

but that's the scared
as I've ever been.

The early days of the
MyPorn operation saw Pat Livingston

pretending to be
a porn producer.

As it developed, he worked
his way up the mob hierarchy,

getting ever closer to
Debbie Does Dallas money man,

Mickey Zaffirano.

Zaffirano controlled,

distribution of of films.

If you wanted to make a film
like I was trying to make,

he would control what
shows that went into,

and he controlled the money.

We talked about doing a movie.

We talked about, you know,

what protection do I have?

And he talked about Deep Throat.

He said Deep Throat
made a lot of money.

You just have to, you know,
play the game the right way.

And he talked about, a
problem in in, Chicago.

They were coming up short. They
weren't getting enough money.

Well, they broke the fingers
of the guy that delivered it.

Okay.

And that's a message that went
back to Chicago that you gotta

do a little better.

Well, it didn't help.

And they ended up blowing
up the owner of one of the

theaters while he's in his car.

That's the kind of protection
that he provided for me as a

financier for the movie that
was gonna be distributed.

While Debbie Does Dallas in
its first year was raking in an

estimated two to three
million dollars for Zaffirano,

the my pawn operation
was coming to its end.

Three years in the making,

it reached its climax in
early nineteen eighty.

Zafrano was one of
its chief targets,

but he wasn't going
down without a fight.

We got the warrants issued
for all of these people and

went out to arrest them
on Saint Valentine's Day.

It's a massacre day from
Chicago. Remember that?

Well, it took about four
hundred FBI agents for that

one day to arrest all of these
people that we could find.

Two of them we couldn't find.

I think they're
out of the country.

But we got fifty three
of them the first day.

Well, one of the warrants
was for Mickey Zaffirano

for interstate transportation
of obscene matter.

Well, he had two businesses
on forty second Street.

One was a theater and
one was a bookstore.

So agents go to the say they
go to the theater first.

We got a warrant for
Mickey Zaffirano.

Well, apparently,

Mickey or some of his employees
saw them coming and knew that

they were the law.

So he takes off through
some kind of a passageway.

I don't know whether it's a
tunnel or just the connecting

doors to it to his other
business, the the bookstore,

which was not immediately
adjacent as I understand it,

but down on the same block.

So he runs down to the
bookstore, for example.

Well, he gets down
to the bookstore,

and his agent's looking
for him down there.

So he runs back down the
passageway to the theater,

and agents are looking
for him at the theater.

So he's up and down the
corridor. How long it was?

It might have been
a hundred feet.

It might have been
a hundred yards.

I don't know.

But on the third or fourth trip,

Mickey has a heart attack,
falls over, and drops dead,

which made our day.

A court case in the death of
Zaffirano had added notoriety

to what was a standard
seventies porn film.

The film's fame got a further
boost from being one of the

first to be distributed
on the new format of VHS.

But it was the mysterious
disappearance of its star, Bambi Woods,

in the mid eighties that really
added to the infamy of Debbie

Does Dallas.

Did you ever go out with Bambi?

Yeah. I went on one
date. One date with her.

And what was she like?

She was very sweet.
That's why I went out.

We we went out actually, the
next night after shooting.

That was the only time
I went out with her.

I didn't I lost track of her.

She had to go somewhere
to do something.

Bambi Woods was set to be as
famous as other seventies porn

icons, icons, Linda Lovelace
and Marilyn Chambers.

But no sooner had she arrived on
the scene than she disappeared.

Some claimed she had died,

while others pointed to
sightings of her in strip

joints and at Hollywood parties.

After making Debbie,

Jim Clark had tried to work
with her one more time.

Unfortunately, the reason why that
picture got so messed up is that a friend

of hers from
Brooklyn came up and

turned her back onto things
that she had been off.

And

went off the deep end.

I heard that

in nineteen eighty six,
she died, or eighty nine,

I'm not sure, of an overdose,

but I'm I'm certainly

not sure.

Which wasn't uncommon.

It happened a few times.

I mean, most of the
women than than men.

From what I have heard,

from other sources,

I think that her parents
rescued her from this industry

and took her away into
seclusion away from it.

And probably gave her
counseling or or what have you

or maybe now she's living
in Wisconsin making cheese.

I don't know.

From what I remember, she
had a religious upbringing.

She ran away from
home, got married,

and was referred to
this by someone who said

that they needed money.

She was a little bit shy and a
little bit hesitant because she

was uncomfortable with
the crowds around her.

This was her first movie.

She was a private girl from a
tremendously different upbringing,

and she was all of a sudden
in a whole different world.

She was uncomfortable,
but she performed fine.

There's a few, frames in the movie
if you watch where she kinda looks

like a deer caught
in the headlights.

A lot of the girls that that
that came along that I talked

to have had

highly religious backgrounds.

It's an awkward thing for a girl

of such upbringing to
come into porn and spread

her legs for for nine
guys to come in there.

It just doesn't make any sense
unless there's something more to it.

There was one figure in
the industry, however,

who was convinced that the
rumors of her death weren't true.

Las Vegas was our next
destination if we wanted to

find out what happened to
Bambi after Debbie Does Dallas.

Since its release in
nineteen seventy eight,

Debbie Does Dallas has found
itself at the center of a court

case, an FBI undercover sting,
and in the mid eighties,

a mystery surrounding
its leading lady.

Rumors of the death of Bambi
Woods from a drug overdose had

never been fully substantiated.

One person who was convinced
Bambi hadn't died was the

film's distributor,
Bob Burge of VCX.

We traveled to the company's
HQ in Las Vegas to talk to him.

In the warehouse,

the shelves are stacked high
with copies of Debbie Does

Dallas.

The title proved so lucrative
that years after it was made,

Bob was keen to trade in on her name
and set about tracking her down.

I had talked to Norm Orno about
making a sequel to Debbie.

And, he said he he
couldn't find her.

So I got a private eye
to try to find her.

I found her parents.

I think stepmother
and stepfather and mother,

I I think.

But, you know, I, you know,

I I only talked to
him on the phone,

so I never got to meet with him.

But you didn't get
any closer to her?

No. What do you think
happened to her?

I think she's probably living
a very happy life somewhere,

then that's the way
she wants to keep it.

And I felt like that after
I talked to the parents,

that was it and leave it there.

So I didn't pursue it.

Before we left Las Vegas,

Bob gave us what he thought
was her real name, Barbara Woodson.

We hired an LA based
detective, Dan Hanks,

who specializes in
film industry cases.

But the trail led nowhere, and without
Bambi's real name, we were stuck.

In normal cases, I'm dealing
with with having real names.

But here, you've
got a total unknown.

Fictitious name.

All of her friends knew her
by this fictitious name,

and she may have closely
guarded what her real name was

during the entire
time she was in porn.

Back in those days,

porn was still operating
under the wire.

It wasn't

really considered
a legal business,

and there are old vice cops
that kept what they call

moniker files, files that
have all the AKA names and

connect them to their real name.

I need to find out what
this girl's real name is.

You rely on people that put
up their own sites and their

stories about her and
that sort of thing.

And what I found is
everybody's saying she's dead.

If she's dead,

somebody had to have
to know her real name.

What was her real name?

What was the name
that she gave to you?

Oh, I've forgotten.

And the reason I won't say that I
who it is is that if she is alive,

she her her anonymity
should be respected.

Her anonymity should be I have
no right not knowing who she is

or how how she's lived over
these these years and what

she's put behind
her to, bring it up.

Even this conversation
that you and I having,

I've spent most of my life
putting behind me those days.

If Bambi was alive, she
had hidden herself well.

We tried to track down
the other female leads,

but unlike their
male counterparts,

they were reluctant to talk.

Some we couldn't trace.

Those we could refused
to be interviewed.

They'd moved on,
built new lives,

and didn't want to be
reminded of the past.

The millions of dollars that
Debbie generated was based on

the appeal of these women,

but they didn't get
to profit share.

One told us via email,

I wish no more intrusions in
my life regarding a career that

gave me nothing
but exploitation.

However, one woman
did agree to talk,

but then only for a strictly
timed fifteen minutes.

There really wasn't actually.

Robin Bird appeared in Debbie
early on in her career.

Now she has a cable access
show in New York interviewing

today's porn stars.

Of all the cast of
Debbie Does Dallas,

you're the only woman
who'll talk to us.

Why do you think that is?

Really?

I'm not ashamed of what I did.

Maybe some of the women were

one time only

doing it for the money.

Let's let's sit and
talk for a minute.

Me, I was an aspiring
actress thinking, gee,

I can get experience from in
front of the camera by doing

porn and then move on to
bigger and better things.

There are women that come
in the industry with a specific

goal to make this
amount of money,

get their own other
career going, or create websites,

buy real estate.

There are some smart people
that that take something out of

it and aren't victims later on,

but I I would say
that's a minority.

They're victims because they
allow themselves to be victims.

They wanna be called victims.
I don't look at it as victims.

I was not a victim.

Didn't pertain to
me. I'm not a victim.

I I just think it's it's
harder on a woman because

we're still in the same society.

We judge, you know, that,

that's because men are
probably jealous of women.

You know? Women can get it.

You know?

And most most likely,

they won't leave a bar
alone if they don't want to,

whereas men can't do that.

You know? So there's a kind
of anger, I think, at women.

I'm strong headed. I have
a good support system.

That's me.

I love myself.

And I really believe in
what I'm doing is right.

It's there's nothing
wrong with what I'm doing.

So you think it's a harder industry
for women than it is for men?

Yeah. Yeah.

You're a whore if
you're a woman.

No matter how you slice
it, no matter what you do,

you're a whore.

Everybody's a victim
of pornography.

You are

Because of your age and your
exposure to it. I certainly am.

The actors and actresses
are fringe type characters,

got poor moral values or they
wouldn't be in this sort of thing,

and they're just in it for the
thrills and the money and the drugs.

That's been my
experience with them.

The world of porn has a
long list of casualties,

mainly self inflicted, and
Debitoz Dallas has its fair share.

And now I think we should
get down to business.

Before I go any further,

does everyone agree with this
method of making extra money?

Sure. Yeah. I'm fine.

Tammy?

I guess so if everyone
else says yes.

Yeah. There's Arcadia
in the background.

Alright.

Cute little thing,
four foot eleven,

ninety pounds.

Debbie Does Dallas was one of
Arcadia Lake's first porn films.

Rob Everett had got her into the
industry and the two became lovers.

In those early days,

there were only a handful of
regular porn stars and they

were a tightly knit family.

I was the one who
met her in New York,

and she was in
desperate need of a job.

So I got her her first
role working with me in a

western, and I forget
the name of it,

but it was it was a
cute little movie.

It was fun. We had one scene
together, and that was it.

I'd say probably for the
large majority, it's very difficult.

If you're both working
in the industry,

it's like you really have to
have a kind of an open mind to

that kind of thing.

You know? You you know?

I mean, you can do it assuming you
know that your woman is not like,

you know, a real
whore, you know,

who just loving the sex so much,

you can't wait to be screwing around
on you when you're not around.

She was on the methadone
program in New York,

an ex heroin addict.

And she was on this program
and she stated to me that she

wanted to get off of methadone.

She wanted to be straight and
they weren't gonna do it for her.

And I said, well, is there
anything I can do to help?

So for the next year,

I took off of work and

I helped her.

I've always wanted a
relationship to work.

I've always wanted to be a
monogamistic person, always.

I love the fact that
she did what she did.

She went through hell.

Unfortunately, it didn't last.

What happened?

She She found somebody,
got back into it,

died of an overdose.

And how did you hear
about her death?

It was at an award
show, I think,

where I got my lifetime
achievement award, actually.

A lot of the girls and guys
had their heads on straight,

understood what they were doing.

It was business. A
lot of them didn't.

We had a lot of sad endings.

A lot of the girls and some
of the guys did not belong in

doing what they're doing.

Their self esteem
levels were so bad

that they didn't belong
in this industry.

Those that had great self
esteem go on today and are

successful and
living good lives.

But again, that's the same
thing in all industry, isn't it?

In Melrose Avenue
in Los Angeles,

outside what is now a
rundown gay porn cinema,

we found the handprints of
famous seventies porn stars,

including Rob Everett,
AKA Eric Edwards,

who over four decades had made
more than a thousand porn films.

This was porn's tawdry version
of the Hollywood walk of fame.

You're stopped on the street
by people saying, oh, man.

I love you, Herschel.
You're you're the greatest.

You're this.

You're that.

In the meantime,

there's absolutely no security
financially in this industry.

So you you people are talking to
you like you're a star, but, yeah,

you we we all know that most stars
are financially set for life.

I mean, if you get any kind
of fame, I mean, you know,

we're the poorest famous
people in the world.

But what happened to performers
like Rob and Herschel once they

no longer had a
porn star's fame?

We traveled to Santa Clarita,

a sleepy town just
outside Los Angeles,

to find out how you live
your life as an ex porn star.

I miss those old days.

I miss, when my boys were young
and depended on me when I could

drive them down here to
school, school, pick them up,

and watch them grow
up into their class.

That's very special.

Robert stopped performing when he had
to raise his two sons single handedly.

He wouldn't let them
appear on camera,

but he was happy to talk about

them.

He's still connected
to the porn industry

He's still connected to the
porn industry as an editor.

His workplace is as far from
Hollywood clips as you could get.

I didn't really want to be
recognized that much anymore

because I was being
recognized constantly.

I still am.

In fact, somebody came up to one
of my sons the other day and and

said, what does your
dad do for a living?

And he said he edits
adult movies and he said,

I thought so.

He's probably got a lot of
my movies in his closet.

I didn't wanna
get recognized for

peer pressure in school.

So I basically
stopped as an actor

for my kids sake.

I have been totally open with
my kids and honest with them.

I they they know why I
gave up the industry.

They see my awards on the
wall, lifetime achievement,

best actor and stuff like
that and hall of fame.

They have been brought
up in an atmosphere of

I'm dad, I'm me and I love you.

And

you know, I'd I,

I think they're cool with it.

Hershel Cohen got out of the
industry in the eighties when

he felt he had
reached rock bottom.

He now lives in Los Angeles.

I wasn't doing live sex shows
on in Times Square at the time,

which was, under the I mean,
you have to understand,

I'm somebody that came from a
a very traditional background.

I was embarrassed to walk
around in my underwear.

I was not I was very self
conscious about my body.

I always have been and
probably for good reason.

I don't have the greatest
body in the world, but,

for me to even be doing live
sex shows with an audience,

it was just like
the Twilight Zone.

I mean yeah.

And,

but nevertheless,

I was doing that six shows a
day or something like that.

It was kinda crazy.

Pretty much ninety percent of the
porno industry is pretty sleazy.

I mean, there's not there's not a
lot of care for the people or the

women, and that
tears away at you.

It really is, pardon
the pun, hard labor.

After ten years out
of the industry,

Hochul took the unusual
step of going back in.

I really never
thought I'd come back,

but through a series of
unfortunate financial

circumstances, I
found myself drifting,

and I needed to get
some kind of base.

And, you know, I came
back in my forties,

which is unheard of.

You know, my first experience
back was was a a five on on

one a five guy on one girl
gang bang, which I never did.

And, I just remember
going to this location,

this studio and everything,

and I just thought
everyone was really skeevy.

I mean, I just they just
didn't seem clean to me.

And I'm like, I'm real meticulous
about my body and everything else.

And and I remember here I was
in my first situation in ten

years with a relatively
attractive woman.

And, and I start
to relate to her,

and I I start to get
a little aroused.

All of a sudden, somebody's
tapping me on the shoulder,

and I turn around, and there's
a hard penis in my face.

I'm ready.

Could you move over, man?
And I'm going, oh god.

This is a I can't do this.

Herschel keeps working on his legitimate
acting career by doing theater.

But what about the lives of the other
actors in the film and the director?

And what about the FBI agent
who had spent three years

pretending to be a pornographer?

How are they fared after
Debbie does Dallas?

In the next part,
we'll find out.

We had tried to find out what
had happened to the cast of

Debbie Does Dallas after
their porn careers ended.

The three male leads had all
started out as legitimate actors.

One of them, Robert Kerman,

was still trying to be an actor
while all the time suffering

because of his porn past.

In retrospect, I'm really sorry
I ever did it in my heart.

I'm sorry I ever did it
because I think I I probably

ruined the best years of my life

as an actor.

In the late eighties,

Kerman left the porn world
and decided to concentrate on what

he'd always wanted to
do, legitimate actor.

He'd managed to get
himself an agent.

This one little agent was
getting me little parts.

I

bigger parts, you know,
Hunter, Hill Street Blues,

Academy and Lacey, Simon
and Simon, no way out.

I was starting to cook.

People in the studios knew I
said, I'm out. Forget that.

It's gone. I
figured here I come.

And then this agent, about six
months into working with her,

came in her office one
day, and she said to me,

we can't work together anymore.

And I have no idea why.

I have no idea why.

I was depressed for weeks in
my I didn't leave my house.

I really was messed up.

I started to do coke, a lot
of it. I went into debt.

I drank a lot.

It got quite heavy
and just did nothing.

Despite all his regret about
the wasted years of his career,

he's still out there looking
for work and has had small

roles in the recent
Spider Man movies.

It wasn't just the Debbie
actors who feel damaged by

their work in the Ex FBI
agent Pat Livingstone

had spent three years being
mob wise guy, Pat Salamone,

in order to break the mafia's
hold over pornography.

In the end, the
experience broke him.

It went from, say, the
first six months being,

you know, ten percent
Pat Salmony and,

you know, ninety
percent Pat Livingston.

Towards the end
of the operation,

it was ninety nine
percent Pat Salmony,

one percent Pat Livingston.

So you lose your total identity.

And, in in some sense,

Pat Salmony was much
more powerful and more,

able to affect, you know,

the criminal investigation than
Pat Livingston ever could have

been.

You could tell that
he was psychologically

adversely affected by having
been undercover that long.

His wife, his his home
life was in shambles.

His wife, eventually
divorced him as as

the Velasquez wife.

They were never home.

They were traveling around the United
States and Hawaii for a couple years.

I was making inroads that
had never been made before,

and it was as an agent.

And I'm on the white horse.

I'm I'm the good guy, and the
bureau will always protect me.

When in reality, the
bureau couldn't care.

All they cared about was the
information I was gleaning,

not not the agent.

I think it was November
nineteen eighty one.

He drove a bureau car with
his four year old son in it,

that's a no no, to a department
store outside of Louisville,

and he got arrested shoplifting
about a hundred and fifty some

dollars worth of
jogging clothes.

And when he got arrested,

he did not identify
himself as an FBI agent.

Agent.

He used his undercover
name of Pat Salamone,

and he got thrown in a can,
this little town outside.

And he didn't tell him for
some time, a day or so,

who he really was.

Well, that's when
it hit the fan.

And the bureau in
two weeks fires him.

How many people
came to his defense?

Two that I know
of, including me,

said he did wrong.

He should be censored.

He should be penalized, but
you shouldn't fire him because

he was wounded in the
line of duty mentally.

But they fired him anyway.

How long did it take you to
lay you Pat Salamone to rest?

What is today?

Pat Salamone is still there.

I mean, there I still I mean,

there there is probably a part
of my personality that will be

passed salamony forever.

After the MyPorn operation,
the FBI changed the rule book.

No one was to go undercover
for longer than six months.

For Jim Clark, director
of Debbie Does Dallas,

a former pornographer,

it's not what a now respectable
businessman wants on his CV.

Do you change when they
know about your background?

Well, I don't know.

I mean, usually, they if
if if they find out about,

especially Debbie, they'll say, well,
you know, he made Debbie.

You know, they yeah.
They do they do change.

They,

yeah, they do change.

Absolutely change.

I don't let it bother me
because I kinda reject

it.

It's not something I
wanna spend my time

pursuing, because it would
only bring me more pain.

We never did solve the
mystery of Bambi Woods' disappearance.

Maybe she did die of an
overdose in nineteen eighty six,

or maybe she's living somewhere
in small town America where the

inhabitants have no idea
of her fame as Debbie.

For those we did speak to,

looking back was a
bittersweet experience.

It just makes me sad that
my life is passing me by.

And,

I'm older, and I haven't
done anything besides this.

Great legacy.

Yeah. You've done
lots of things.

You've done other things.

Oh,

I did Debbie.

That's historic.

I guess how many people
you think have seen this?

God. Millions.

Right?

Much beloved by Eurotrash,

the sad end of Lolo Ferrari in
Death of a Pornstar tomorrow

night at ten fifty five.

Next tonight, Cat House exposes life
and lust at America's notorious bunny

ranch, a legal
brothel in Nevada.