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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'An inquiry into the deaths 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,960 'of babies in Nottingham is expected to become 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,960 'the biggest maternity investigation in NHS history. 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,960 'Around 1,700 families who received maternity care 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,960 'from the Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,960 'are to have their cases reviewed.' 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'The review, led by midwife Donna Ockenden, 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,960 'will find out whether dozens of babies died 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,800 'or were seriously injured because of poor care.' 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Around 100 people gathered here in West Bridgford 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,960 'to hear the latest on the investigation 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,960 'into maternity failings 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,960 'at both the Queen's Medical Centre and City Hospital.' 16 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,960 Good afternoon, and... 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,960 thank you so much for coming, and welcome. 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,960 My name's Jack Hawkins. 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,960 It's bittersweet seeing so many people here. 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,960 I don't really know what to say, 21 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,960 because my daughter didn't survive routine health care. 22 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,960 I'm Sarah Hawkins. 23 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,960 I'm a mummy to two beautiful daughters. 24 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,800 Harriet should be seven, and Lottie is four. 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,960 Hi, everybody, I'm Natalie. 26 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:22,960 My son Kouper never opened his eyes. 27 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,320 He never moved a muscle. 28 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:25,960 He never fed. 29 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,160 Wynter was a perfectly healthy baby. 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,800 There was no reason for her to die. 31 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,640 I'm a harmed mum, 32 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,960 and the problem is it doesn't stop 33 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,960 because we're still here eight years on. 34 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,800 What we're most worried about is that harm is ongoing. 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden is calling for 36 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:46,960 'more families to come forward, 37 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,960 'or her inquiry risks being a failure.' 38 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,960 This is a call to arms. 39 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,960 We must now all speak to Donna, 40 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,960 to get the justice we deserve. 41 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,800 Thank you. 42 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,160 APPLAUSE 43 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,960 PIANO PLAYS GENTLY 44 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,960 HE PLAYS 'WHERE IS MY MIND?' 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,960 There you go. Oh, thank you. 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,960 PIANO MUSIC CONTINUES 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,960 SARAH: 'So, I met Jack in 2008.' 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,960 We both worked at the hospital at the time. 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,960 I was a physio, and Jack was one of the doctors. 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,960 And he told me a really bad joke. 51 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,960 JACK: 'I had a bad shoulder, 52 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,960 'and I was trying to get you to fix it. 53 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,640 'You were, like, so dismissive.' THEY LAUGH 54 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:13,000 Shoulders weren't my speciality. 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Yeah, but still, you know, read the signs. 56 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,960 THEY LAUGH 57 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,960 We got married November 2013. 58 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,960 I think it was less than a year after we got engaged. 59 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,960 It was ace, wasn't it? Yeah. 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,960 Often spoken about. Yeah. 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,640 We're both one of four, 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,960 then we thought we'd have four kids, country house, dog... 63 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,960 Did we? I thought we said three? 64 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,960 Oh, no, because you can't have an odd number. 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Fair enough. 66 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,960 PIANO MUSIC CONTINUES 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,320 BIRDSONG 68 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,960 SARAH: Lottie, would you like cordial or a Fruit Shoot? 69 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Cordial. Yeah, in your Charlotte cup? 70 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,960 You can do your work, we do ours. 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,160 JACK: Oh, you gonna do some work? 72 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,160 Can you hear it? Mummy, just a little louder. 73 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,960 Is that OK? Yeah. 74 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,960 Not too loud? Not too loud. OK. 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,320 So there's... This is the timeline of what happened in our care. 76 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,000 Yeah, yeah. I can put that file on the chair, 77 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,960 and I'll have the computer, if you don't mind writing it? 78 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,960 No. I'll write. 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Baby Harriet Hawkins was born dead 80 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,320 'at Nottingham City Hospital on the 17th of April 2016. 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,960 'She died as a result of a mismanaged labour. 82 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,960 'Harriet's father, Jack, is a hospital consultant. 83 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,960 'Her mother, Sarah, is a senior physiotherapist. 84 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,000 'Both worked for the hospital trust responsible 85 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,960 'for the death of their baby, their first child.' 86 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,960 Do you want to just use your normal pen? Yeah. 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,320 NEWS REPORTER: 'Since that day, the couple have campaigned 88 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,960 'to force the Trust to acknowledge it made mistakes. 89 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,960 'Mistakes which they believed had been covered up.' 90 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,960 So, let's just be clear, 91 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,480 what do you think that Donna wants from us? 92 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,960 Well, I think she needs to know, Donna needs to know... 93 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,960 ..basically all of Harriet's story 94 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,960 and what went on during my pregnancy and birth. 95 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,960 Her due date was 11th, wasn't it? 96 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,960 Due 11-4-16. 97 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,960 I started having contractions through the night, 98 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,800 so they never stopped over the whole six days. 99 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Six to nine mins. 100 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,960 'It's been nearly eight years since Harriet died, and, erm, 101 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,960 'yeah, I remember every second of it, 102 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,960 'like, it feels like it was yesterday.' 103 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,480 Then that evening, that's when we did go in. 104 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,480 That's the first time that they suggested 105 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,960 this was latent labour, 106 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,960 and that was in our heads then? 107 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Yeah. 108 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,960 I made 13 contacts with the hospital. 109 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,960 They just weren't listening to me when I was asking for help. 110 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,800 On the 16th, they told me to come in... 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,960 ..and I said, "Will I need an epidural because I'm not managing?" 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,960 And then she said, "Oh, no, you're too early for that, 113 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,960 "but why don't we give you... some diamorphine?" 114 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,960 Which is ridiculous when you think about it, 115 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,480 a massive dose of opiates. 116 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,960 And so, without the doctor seeing you, 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,960 you had ten milligrams of diamorphine. 118 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,960 Codeine. 119 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,320 We didn't know this at the time, did we? 120 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:34,960 We found this out afterwards. 121 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,960 Codeine, 60, and one gram of IV paracetamol. 122 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:39,960 Yeah. 123 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,960 Which is massive, isn't it? It's huge. 124 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,960 I've never... I've... 125 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,960 Just cannot imagine giving those doses of those medicines 126 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,960 and letting anybody home. 127 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,960 'You know, having these six days of just begging for help 128 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,960 'and no-one agreeing with me or, you know, 129 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,960 'basically, I felt like a fraud.' 130 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,960 And then on the 17th... 131 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,960 ..phone call to the labour suite, 132 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,960 and that was the worst phone call ever. Yeah. 133 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:12,960 She was horrible. Yeah. 134 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,960 'Er... That was... 135 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,960 'Oh, that lady was just horrific. 136 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,960 She said, "I'm sure you're not in established labour, 137 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960 "so stay at home." So I got off that call, 138 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,960 and I was just lying on the sofa, crying, 139 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,960 and then something started to hang out of me. 140 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,960 That was ten to four. 141 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,960 We jumped straight in the car to the hospital. 142 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,320 I walked in, there were three staff. 143 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,960 One of them was the midwife I'd had the phone call with. 144 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,960 She just shouted down the corridor to me, 145 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,480 "Is it still hanging out of you?" 146 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,960 So then I just burst into tears because I'd been in labour 147 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,960 for, like, six days, and I was exhausted. 148 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,640 Then that midwife said, "Does it feel like you need to push?" 149 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,960 And I was like, "Yeah." 150 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:01,960 Then she said, "Oh, I can see the baby's head. 151 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,960 "The baby's about to come. You're too late for pain relief." 152 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,960 'She had said, "I'm just gonna check the baby's heart rate." 153 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,000 'She struggled to find it. 154 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,960 'So then they called for the doctor, and then the doctor scanned 155 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,480 'and said, "I'm sorry, your baby's dead." ' 156 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,480 'I think I just wanted to die.' 157 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,960 'Yeah, you know, like... 158 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,960 'I was asking for help.' 159 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,960 I think I'd convinced myself it was a boy. 160 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,960 I think we had. Yeah. Yeah. 161 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,960 I quite liked Arthur. 162 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,960 I remember when we saw her, I was like, 163 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,960 "Oh, she definitely looks like a little Harriet." She does. 164 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,960 Harriet Ella Rene Hawkins. 165 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,320 She was perfect, wasn't she? 166 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,960 Hi, Avi, how are you? Good to see you. And you. 167 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:33,960 Hi, Avi, nice to see you again. 168 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,960 'I've had multiple therapists at different times 169 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,000 'for slightly different reasons.' 170 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,480 Thank you for coming again. 171 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,960 We've never seen anyone... Together? ..together. 172 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,960 I see. No. In therapy. 173 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:55,960 We're here because you've suffered the unexpected death of your child 174 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,960 and then found yourselves 175 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,960 in a years-long fight to be heard. 176 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,960 Yeah, erm... 177 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,000 'Yeah, absolutely. 178 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,960 'The toll that has taken on us needs some sorting out.' 'Mm-hm.' 179 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,800 'After Harriet died, for days, for weeks, 180 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,960 'we expected them to come forward to us and say, 181 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,960 ' "Right, this is the death of a completely normal baby. 182 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,960 ' "What has happened here?" 183 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,960 'But they didn't do that. 184 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960 'It was, "Nothing's happened. Nothing to see here." 185 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,480 'And hushed, and, "These things happen." ' 186 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,960 They just refused to even have a conversation 187 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,960 about what might have happened, what else might have happened. 188 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,800 Do you think it's hungry? Oh, is it? 189 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,960 Do you want some food, do you think? 190 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,960 Whoo! 191 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:53,960 Right, monkey. 192 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,960 I'm gonna need you to help me Sellotape something on the wall. 193 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,960 You look like a professor. JACK CHUCKLES 194 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,000 'They had done their own investigation 195 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,960 'into Harriet's death. 196 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,640 'We didn't know about... they were even doing this. 197 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,960 'It was completed, it had the wrong place of delivery. 198 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,960 'In the end, it said no faults by NUH 199 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,960 'and then they said death was infection. 200 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,160 'As in, they tried to blame Harriet's death on infection.' 201 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,000 We were saying we don't agree with that at all. 202 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,960 And they said, "But this has gone through six other consultants 203 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,800 "and four senior midwives." 204 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,960 Now, to us, that's a chunk of the department 205 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,480 thinking that this report was good enough. 206 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,960 And bearing in mind we'd been blowing the whistle 207 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,960 all the way through this and saying something's not right. 208 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,960 Also remember, I worked there. 209 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,960 We hoped that meeting the Chief Executive 210 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,320 and the Medical Director in January 2017, 211 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,000 they would go, "Crikey, yes, OK. "Something's gone very wrong here." 212 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,960 'But then it became very clear that they... 213 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,960 'they were interested in maintaining 214 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,960 'the position of the hospital.' 215 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,960 I'm just gonna put some red here for organisations. Yeah. 216 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,960 'And it would have made a big difference, I think, 217 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,320 'if they'd said, "This shouldn't have happened." 218 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,960 'Instead of that, we were completely cast out 219 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,960 'and ignored and vilified.' 220 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,960 'We've got these emails from the Trust, 221 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,640 'and they have written emails about us, 222 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,960 'like, "When can we sue them for defamation?" 223 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,800 ' "They haven't had to fight as hard as they have. 224 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,480 ' "Their media releases are full of lies." ' 225 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,960 I feel like they're trying to make me go crazy, 226 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,960 like, after all those years, you know, 227 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,960 there's still that thing of... 228 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,960 them blaming us. 229 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,960 Cos I do feel like that was one of their tactics. 230 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,960 Like, to make us feel like we were grieving and... 231 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,160 ..crazy. 232 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,320 And we were broke. Well, I was broken. 233 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,960 'And, you know, we were senior clinicians, 234 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,960 'so what else have they done to other people?' 235 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,960 'We knew we cannot be the only ones. 236 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,960 'We searched the news. 237 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,960 We found a news report of a young lad 238 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,640 who died two years before Harriet, 239 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,960 because at caesarean section, 240 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,960 they cut one-inch deep with a scalpel into his head. 241 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,960 JACK: "Following the inquest, Dr Stephen Fowlie, Medical Director, 242 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,960 "said, 'The pathologist concluded 243 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,960 " 'that this extremely rare complication of the caesarean 244 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,960 " 'caused Carson's death. 245 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,960 " 'It will never be known whether had this not occurred 246 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:08,960 " 'Carson would have survived.' " 247 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,960 Makes me so angry. What on earth? 248 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,960 'After that, my life, for years, 249 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,960 'was just scrolling social media 24-7, 250 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,960 'just trying to find someone with a dead baby. 251 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,960 'Which takes a toll.' 252 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,960 'We set up a Facebook page.' 253 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,960 It started off with a small group of us, 254 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,960 and then it jumped to 12, and then 20, and then 50. 255 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,960 Yeah, there's hundreds of us now, 256 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,960 talking to each other, sharing information. 257 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,960 The most horrific community you could want to be part of, 258 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,960 but at least there are other people saying, 259 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,800 "Yes, your experience is mine." 260 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,960 'I feel a deep sense of responsibility 261 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,960 'for these other families.' 262 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,960 Who else is coming? 263 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,800 Just us, I think. Is this it? 264 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,320 The thing is, every time we meet, 265 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,000 there's at least one more bombshell from one of us that we found out. 266 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,960 I don't think a week's gone by where there hasn't been something 267 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,960 quite shocking that's come to light. 268 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,640 I mean, what, we're in 2023 now, 269 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,960 and we think there's still more to come. Yeah. 270 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,960 When Sarah had to go back and have a bladder scan - 271 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,960 that they should have done 272 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,960 a couple of weeks after Harriet's death and they forgot - 273 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,960 they then sent us to antenatal clinic with a letter 274 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960 saying, "Please make sure your bladder is full 275 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:48,960 "so we can scan your pregnancy." 276 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,960 I get that, and I don't have a bladder. 277 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:53,960 "Yeah, don't have one, so what do I do? 278 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,960 "Can't come with a full bladder if I don't have one." 279 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,960 They still don't even know, even to this day. 280 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,320 I'm eight years on now, just, 281 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,960 because it's obviously just Max's birthday. 282 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,960 They still don't even know 283 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,960 which of my ureters they chopped off as well. 284 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,160 They chopped off the bladder and one of my ureters, 285 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,960 and the urologist says one, 286 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,960 and the two doctors that did it to me say another. 287 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,960 I don't even know which body parts I've got. 288 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,960 When Wynter died and we were in the bereavement suite, 289 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,000 the governance team come to us with a letter, didn't they? 290 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,960 And I had to point out it's not our son, 291 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:22,960 it was our daughter, you know? 292 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,960 And they're like, "Oh, we'll go and change that." 293 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,960 So those little details, you know. It's just... 294 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,960 You're going into the room of a family whose baby's just died. 295 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,960 You go in there knowing if it's a girl or a boy, don't you? 296 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960 You would if there were any consequences. Well... 297 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,960 "It's the families that don't remember", 298 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,960 I got told at inquest. 299 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:43,960 Was that the coroner? The coroner. 300 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,960 I'd argue the opposite. 301 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,960 She favoured the NHS's version of events 302 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,960 because the family had been through something so traumatic 303 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,960 that they can't possibly remember in what order those events happened. 304 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,960 It's exhausting, isn't it? 305 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,320 NATALIE: Kouper was born. 306 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,960 He didn't cry. He barely cried. 307 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,960 And I knew then that something was wrong. 308 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,960 He was born at quarter to two in the morning, 309 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,960 and he was discharged at half past three in the afternoon. 310 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,960 Even though I'd raised concerns that he'd never opened his eyes, 311 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,000 he never moved a muscle, he never fed. 312 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,960 All I got told by midwives was he was my fifth child, 313 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,320 and I should know how to wake a baby and feed him, 314 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,960 and to go away and do it. 315 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,960 He died at quarter past two in the morning 316 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,960 while we were asleep. 317 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,960 We rang 999 and was told to do CPR. 318 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,960 So I got my son on the floor and did CPR the best I could. 319 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,000 When the ambulance crew and everybody arrived, 320 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,320 me and my husband were arrested. 321 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,960 I wasn't allowed to sit with my son in the ambulance 322 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,960 on the way to the hospital, I had to sit up front. 323 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,640 I wasn't allowed to see him, hold him or touch him. 324 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,640 The hardest thing was seeing my kids 325 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,960 watch their mum being taken away for killing their brother. 326 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:22,960 SHE CRIES 327 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,960 'Some of us have fought for years to get our medical records 328 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,800 'because we believe some of them are incorrect or incomplete. 329 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,640 'At least we worked at the hospital, 330 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,960 'and that's how we can help others.' 331 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,800 My problem is, 332 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,960 the memory that I have of Kouper's state of health 333 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,960 is completely different to what the coroner was told at inquest. 334 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,960 JACK: I'm gonna make some notes. 335 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,960 Erm... 336 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,960 Is it the 17th? Yeah. 337 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,960 So, in here is everything... 338 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,640 Wow. ..right up to the present day. 339 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,640 Wow. 340 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,640 There is too much here to sort out. 341 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,960 They think by landing this on my doorstep all together in one go, 342 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,960 that I'm just going to look at it and go "Ugh." 343 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960 Nicely redacted, your info. 344 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,960 Do you know what it says about your son? 345 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,960 What was under there? God knows. 346 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,960 The police officer that was involved 347 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,960 came and brought Kouper's belongings back. 348 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,960 She said, "So, has anybody rang and told you 349 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,960 "that he had two collapsed lungs on his MRI scan?" 350 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960 This is the police telling you? Yeah. 351 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,960 So I went mad, rang the hospital. 352 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,960 She said to me, "Well, the reason why I didn't tell you 353 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,960 "is because you collapsed his lungs doing CPR, 354 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,960 "so you killed your son." 355 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,960 They made me believe that he had no chance 356 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,480 of being brought back to life... Because you... 357 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,960 Because I collapsed his lungs doing incorrect CPR. 358 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,960 We was just told that we was being, erm, arrested under caution 359 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,960 and he had to have an MRI scan, 360 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,960 and we couldn't see him 361 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,960 until they could make sure that we'd not structurally damaged him. 362 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,960 It's only been since inquest 363 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,960 when the doctor that did the postmortem stood up and said 364 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,000 that he felt that one of his lungs was collapsed pre-birth, 365 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,960 or during labour, 366 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,960 that it hit me that I hadn't done it. 367 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:41,960 WHISPERS: Fuck me. 368 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,960 On Kouper's shelf. Yeah. 369 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,960 This one. Yeah. 370 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,960 You can't really see it very well cos it's glass, 371 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,960 but it has got his picture engraved on it. 372 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Oh, let's see. 373 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,960 Oh, Kouper. 374 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,640 It's that picture in there. Yeah. 375 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,960 That picture was taken literally minutes after he was born. 376 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,960 All we've ever done is speak the truth, 377 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:40,960 yet we're always being told... 378 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Well, we was told at inquest it's not the truth. Yeah. 379 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,960 And that hurts because telling a family who have suffered... 380 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,000 You've misremembered. ..such a tragic thing 381 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,960 that we can't possibly remember what way it happened. 382 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,960 You will never forget what way it happened. No. 383 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,960 I rang the hospital 17 times 384 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,960 and was repeatedly told that there was no beds. 385 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,640 David had starved of oxygen 386 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,960 and passed away inside me. 387 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,960 We were told that she probably wouldn't survive the birth. 388 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,480 We decided to end the pregnancy 389 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,960 because we didn't want our daughter to suffer. 390 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,480 We found out the test results came back completely clear. 391 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,960 You can't imagine that feeling. 392 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,960 The consultant says, "Well, you could've miscarried anyway." 393 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,480 I'm still going to have to give birth 394 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,640 to a baby that's gonna come out silent. 395 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,960 And literally, your dreams are shattered in an instant. 396 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,640 I wonder how my sleep will be tonight. 397 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,960 Interesting dreams, I presume. Interesting. 398 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,320 NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden, the senior midwife, 399 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320 'recently reported on the maternity scandal in Shropshire, 400 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,960 'which uncovered more than 350 cases of serious harm.' 401 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden is leading the independent review 402 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,960 'examining dozens of baby deaths and injuries, 403 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,960 'and mothers who suffered serious harm 404 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,000 'at the Queen's Medical Centre and Nottingham City Hospital.' 405 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,800 SARAH: 'It's been a very long fight to get this review to happen. 406 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,960 'We campaigned for Donna to get here. 407 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,960 'Now we just need for those responsible 408 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,640 'to be held to account.' 409 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,960 DONNA OCKENDEN: All reviews will get this multi-professional assessment, 410 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,960 and they'll be graded. 411 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,800 Zero if the team feels that care was appropriate, 412 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,960 to grade three if there were major concerns 413 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,960 in which, in all likelihood, 414 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960 different care would have changed the outcome. 415 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,960 The original families who campaigned so hard, 416 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,960 they all met the terms of reference and they were within the review. 417 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,960 So that room? 418 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,000 'I think I would like just to sort of refresh 419 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,960 'what it is that you are doing.' 420 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,960 'We will consider all of the evidence that is possibly available. 421 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,800 'Medical records are a large part of that. 422 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,960 'Family testimonies, governance and risk information, 423 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,960 'so it all comes together in one big jigsaw. 424 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,960 'And, you know, family voices.' 425 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:03,160 I know you know this runs absolutely central, 426 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,800 right through the review. 427 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,960 I guess, after meeting all the families... Yeah. 428 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,960 ..what I really want to know is when... 429 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,960 when, you know, substantive change is going to be made 430 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,480 and when care is going to be safe again at NUH? 431 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,960 OK, I am seeing a definite intention, erm, 432 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,320 that families will be listened to 433 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,960 and that what families say matters. 434 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,960 With that in mind, families want to understand 435 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,800 what an apology would look like. 436 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,640 A proper apology, not a "we reiterate our condolences." 437 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,960 OK. OK. 438 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,800 Erm, just talking specifically about Harriet now, 439 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,960 that we've given you, erm, evidence that we have and stuff, 440 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,320 and whether there's anything more that we can give you 441 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,800 to develop her case and...? 442 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,960 What would be really helpful to my review team 443 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,960 would be a timeline from your perspective. 444 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:04,320 You know, what you want the review to understand and highlight 445 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960 is the huge amount of effort that you put into, 446 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,480 erm, trying to tell the Trust very soon after Harriet died, 447 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,960 erm, about the problems that they had. 448 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960 And then, as you've explained to me, how compounded your grief was 449 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,960 when you kept being pushed away, pushed away, 450 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,960 "there's nothing here to look at." 451 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,640 You wrote to X on such-and-such a date. 452 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,960 You wrote to Y, you wrote to Z. 453 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,960 You wrote to A, you wrote to B. Yeah. 454 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,960 That would be extremely helpful to my team. 455 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,960 These are all the emails that I've found. Wow. 456 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960 So we just need to print out the emails from that. 457 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,960 Yeah, so look at these emails all to the medical director. Yeah. 458 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960 And that meeting, I mean, it's all recorded, 459 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,960 but we totally blew the whistle there. 460 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,960 And this is the stuff for Donna... 461 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Yeah. Because it is... 462 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,960 It describes a clear timeline of people being told 463 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,960 and failing to respond in a way that changed things. 464 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:12,960 I mean, look at this. 465 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960 "We have considered all relevant incidents since December 2015. 466 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,960 "To date, ten of these cases have been reported as SIs." 467 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,960 JACK: There are different categories of incidents. 468 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,960 You have standard incidents, and then serious incidents, or SIs, 469 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960 which have to be investigated. 470 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,960 Any serious incident at a hospital is reported 471 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,960 to the Department of Health, who assess the safety of a hospital. 472 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,800 At Nottingham, they invented a whole new category 473 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,960 called a "high-level incident", which does not get reported. 474 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,960 And the medical director has downgraded so many cases, 475 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,160 and that's frightening. 476 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,960 'I'm used, I guess, to people taking me seriously. 477 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,960 'To have that so fundamentally ignored is difficult.' 478 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,960 "We do not consider the threshold for such referrals have been met." 479 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960 It's not right, is it? 480 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800 One of the things that's been really challenging 481 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,960 is being not believed, 482 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,960 and so I've made notes, conversations. 483 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,000 What I'm hoping is that 484 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,960 it becomes something for the police, and for the courts, 485 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,960 because the regulators have not wanted it. 486 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,960 Oh, here we go. 487 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,320 "Have you informed the police that there has been a death 488 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,960 "of a completely normal baby to completely healthy parents?" 489 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,960 "Respectfully, Harriet was not a completely normal baby. 490 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,960 "At postmortem, there was evidence of ascending infection, 491 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,960 "a recognised cause of stillbirth. 492 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,960 "We do not consider that there has been any criminal act 493 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960 "or omission to prompt us to report Harriet's death to the police." 494 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,960 There was no infection, was there? 495 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,960 And you were a physio? 496 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,960 Yeah, which I loved. 497 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,960 Loved my job. Worked really hard. 498 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,960 'So, both Sarah and I lost our jobs.' 499 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,960 Now, they will say it's for other reasons, 500 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,960 but we're clear, it's cos we were blowing the whistle. 501 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,320 'I'd got a letter from my employer 502 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,960 'asking about my non-attendance, 503 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,960 'and the HR lady said that she would continue to pay me 504 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,960 'until two weeks after Harriet's funeral. 505 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,960 'And then I'd stop being paid. 506 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960 'Obviously, our legal team challenged that.' 507 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,960 'I was off sick, and then, out of the blue, 508 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,320 'got an email from the medical director, saying, 509 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,960 ' "Dear Jack, can you please make an appointment 510 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960 ' "so that we can discuss your obligations to the Trust?" 511 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,960 'We had that meeting, 512 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,960 'and we spent most of the meeting whistle-blowing, 513 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,960 'and at the end of it, he said, 514 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,480 ' "I'm sorry, but you're not gonna have a job for much longer, 515 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,480 ' "so let's agree that your last day is..." 516 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,640 'Well, it was December 2018.' 517 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,960 'You know, I always say it, but to put it frank, 518 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,960 'you know, they killed our daughter, 519 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,640 'they've ruined our careers, and they've ruined our lives.' 520 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,960 SHARMA: It's OK. You all right? Yeah. 521 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,320 Nice to see you. And you. 522 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,800 Hello! You've grown. He's just woke up. 523 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,960 He looks like me when I've just woken up. 524 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,960 How are you? 525 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,960 OK. Yeah. This is... 526 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,960 ..erm... hard. 527 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,960 Hey, Ama. Hello, mate. Sorry. 528 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,960 That's all right. It's been a while. 529 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960 It's been very hectic for us recently. Yeah, I know. 530 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,960 So, you're moving? Yeah, yeah. 531 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,480 We just don't feel safe here, to be honest. Yeah. 532 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,960 I feel like a voyeur in your life, you tell me so much. 533 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,960 If it wasn't for you, then there'd be no-one listening to us. 534 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960 I remember standing in that kitchen, when I was first speaking to you. 535 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,160 The first time that someone had believed us. 536 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,960 Yeah. You understand? 537 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,960 You don't realise what you've done for us. 538 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,960 You really don't. Thank you. 539 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,480 You're doing good stuff, too, by the way. This... 540 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,960 This is fighting that you're doing, 541 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,480 and everybody that shoulders this burden 542 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,960 moves it on a little bit. 543 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,960 What's your background again? 544 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,480 Because you say you know about ventilators. 545 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,960 So... So, I, erm, was working with children 546 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,960 with complex health conditions. OK. 547 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,960 Erm, so needing oxygen... 548 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,000 Night-time CPAP and that sort of stuff. Yeah. 549 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,960 There are some people who I think already want 550 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,960 to share their experiences. 551 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,800 Ama and Sharma, are you comfortable to... 552 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,960 Yeah? 553 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,320 My name is Sharma Thomas, erm... 554 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,960 and I'm here to share mine and my partner, Ama Maduako, erm... 555 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,960 our experience at Nottingham City Hospital. 556 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,960 Erm, so... 557 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,960 From the moment our twins entered this world, 558 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,960 we raised our voices in concern 559 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,960 to the nurses and to the senior management. 560 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,960 They labelled us as parents who didn't want our kids to have oxygen 561 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,960 and forcing us through a five-month child protection investigation. 562 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,960 This left us unable to mourn for the loss of our daughter. 563 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,960 She was four months old 564 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,960 and spent her entire life confined to a hospital bed. 565 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,000 Ama, we've got some vital stuff that needs to happen. 566 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,960 Erm, Donna needs us to collate our evidence and get it to her. 567 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,960 Can you do that before you move away? Yeah. 568 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,960 Every email, meeting memo, phone call memo, everything. Yeah. 569 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960 You know, we were concerned about the ventilator, 570 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,160 because, erm, our concerns were that they were misusing the pressures. 571 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,960 I raised a question about the ventilator. 572 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960 The machine wasn't working. And they were trying to fix it. 573 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,960 They were stood there... Yeah. 574 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,960 How is this not in front of the coroner? 575 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960 They haven't told the coroner that this happened. 576 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,960 Yeah. They haven't told the coroner. What they did after this event 577 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,320 was they went and reported us to social services 578 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,960 and said we're refusing medical treatment. 579 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,960 We were actually in the hospital 580 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,960 going through the discharge, erm, planning. 581 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,960 Yeah. And then she dies. She died on 25th January. 582 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,960 So they delayed her release because the social services 583 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,960 was trying to basically get a court order against us. 584 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,960 We just wanted clarity on what treatment 585 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,640 the hospital were giving Adaora, 586 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,960 but the hospital interpreted that as us refusing treatment. 587 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,960 ZEEK CRIES Aw... 588 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,960 Bless you. 589 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,960 Right, thank you for looking after me. 590 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Just, just about. 591 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,640 I shall leave you to it. 592 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,960 Ta-ra. 593 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,960 ZEEK CRIES Come here. 'Ey. 594 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,800 Er, come on. 595 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,000 PRINTER WHIRS 596 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,640 The stuff I'm printing now is evidence, 597 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,960 you get what I'm saying? 598 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,960 Have you got the medical note where they review Adaora's machine? 599 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,960 Erm... 600 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,960 Do you need me to send it you? Yeah, could you send me that? 601 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,320 That's pretty key evidence. 602 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960 You know when they first put her on the ventilator? 603 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,960 When it went wrong? Yeah. 604 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,960 When it went wrong... And they didn't tell the coroner. 605 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,960 But on her documents, they've said that they don't know what caused it. 606 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,960 And then you have the nerve to tell the coroner 607 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,960 that I caused harm to my daughter, knowing that we're bereaved parents. 608 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,960 Maybe we should try and call the coroner's office again. 609 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,640 They're not gonna talk to us. It might be worth a try. 610 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,000 RINGING TONE 611 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,160 That's if they even pick up. 612 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,960 Hi. Hi, erm... 613 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,960 I was wondering if I could speak to a representative? 614 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,960 My name's Ama Maduako. 615 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960 Adaora Maduako. 616 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,320 Yeah, it was 5th of September 2022. 617 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:53,960 OK. 618 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,640 HOLD MUSIC PLAYS 619 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,960 When it comes to NUH, like, not everything's about race, 620 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,160 but some things are about race. Yeah. 621 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,960 Like, think about it, Jack, he's done so well, 622 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,960 done so much for us, so much for all the families, 623 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,960 but they're listening to him. 624 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960 Yeah. Why? Because he's a doctor. 625 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,960 He's reputable. 626 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Who am I gonna listen to? 627 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,960 20-year-experience doctor or Black guy from London? 628 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,000 If it wasn't for someone like him being the spokesperson... 629 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,960 then why should they listen to us? Yeah. 630 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,960 It sounds harsh, but that is literally what it boils down to. 631 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,960 HOLD MUSIC PLAYS 632 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960 HOLD MUSIC STOPS, DISCONNECT TONE 633 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,960 Yeah, that's what they do. They do that all the time. Yeah. 634 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,960 That's literally the fifth time they've done that. 635 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,960 Usually, they'll just respond and be like, 636 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,960 "Oh, yeah, we're not talking to you." 637 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,960 But they just started hanging up. That's what they do. Yeah. 638 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,160 He's conked out. 639 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,960 Let me get him a blanket. 640 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,960 Go on, have baby Adaora's blanket. 641 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,960 You all right? Yeah. 642 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,960 It's just seeing her blanket. Yeah. 643 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,960 Cos, like, he looks like her when... 644 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,960 when he sleeps. 645 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,960 So... 646 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,960 SARAH: You've been told you're just one of those things. 647 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,000 "Babies die sometimes." They don't. 648 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960 Because it isn't one of those things. 649 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,960 Babies shouldn't just die. 650 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,960 NATALIE: I will always talk about my son, 651 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,960 and I will always tell his story... 652 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,960 SHE SNIFFS 653 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,960 ..because I was blamed for his death for that long 654 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,000 that I actually started to believe I'd done it. 655 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,960 And I started to believe 656 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,000 that I didn't deserve my other five children. 657 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,960 FELICITY: I thought, 658 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,960 "They've covered up and lied on all of my situation." 659 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,960 Eight years on, I'm meeting families today 660 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,960 that have been told, as I was, that it was my body's fault. 661 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,800 That was a lie. 662 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,160 AMA: They are trying their hardest to gaslight and to misrepresent. 663 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,960 But there's nothing they can do or say 664 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,960 that can change what I know to be reality 665 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,800 because I was there, and we witnessed it. 666 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,960 Right, where shall I do this one? 667 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,960 What background? Out there? 668 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,960 Something different? It's good, I think. 669 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,960 I can't stop humming Peppa Pig. 670 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,000 SARAH LAUGHS Hello. 671 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,480 JACK CHUCKLES Oh, yay! 672 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,960 Well done. Hello. 673 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,960 'Having our Facebook group of bereaved and harmed families 674 00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:02,160 'means we can quickly update everybody 675 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,960 'with information that might help with their cases against NUH.' 676 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,960 There. Happy? 677 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,160 Erm... 678 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,960 One of the main things... Well, you can talk about Harriet 679 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,960 and say we didn't get a look for a prosecution 680 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,640 cos of this three-year limit that we weren't aware of. 681 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,960 So just to make sure everyone is aware of this 682 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,960 and how to contact them. 683 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960 Hello, this is a video about the Care Quality Commission 684 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,960 and what they should be doing, erm, 685 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960 and how to access them and why. 686 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,960 What they do is they inspect, 687 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,960 give out ratings, 688 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,960 and they also prosecute. 689 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,960 So they are responsible for prosecuting the hospital 690 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,960 and the hospital staff. 691 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,960 But there's a key piece about this. 692 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,960 The law is that they have three years to prosecute. 693 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,960 If you are within that three years, 694 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,320 act, and do it loudly and clearly. 695 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:01,960 This rule is appalling. 696 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,960 Three years is nowhere near long enough, 697 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,000 and to not let people know is awful. Yeah. 698 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,960 Yeah. 699 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,960 I mean, it's survival for the first couple of years, isn't it? Yeah. 700 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,960 And survival even if the hospital have done a great job 701 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,800 and are communicating with you. Yeah. 702 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,960 Not survival and then you've got to fight a... 703 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,960 ..massive system. Mm. 704 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,960 I believe they're a failed organisation. 705 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,960 How can you have so many baby deaths, 706 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,960 and you are responsible for prosecuting them... 707 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960 ..and yet, there are only two prosecutions 708 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,960 against maternity units in the UK? 709 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,960 'It's fair to say we all believe 710 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,960 'the CQC must have deliberately run down the clock 711 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,960 'in order to avoid prosecutions, 712 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,960 'because there have been so few.' 713 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,640 I don't think he understood just how much we had 714 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,160 and how much we knew. WOMAN: No. 715 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,960 Do you know what I mean? He came across as very much like, 716 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,960 "This is just a bunch of families that think they know it all," 717 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,960 until we started talking and then he was like, 718 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,320 "Wow, I really need to, like, just sit back a minute 719 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,960 "cos they know what they're talking about." 720 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,960 And that's the thing, they underestimate us as families. 721 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,160 We've blown the whistle in there with the Chief Executive of CQC. 722 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,320 Did you notice, though, as a regulator on the whole of CQC, 723 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,960 for every one of us in that room that he had failed 724 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,960 to deliver on a prosecution, 725 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,000 we didn't get an apology? 726 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,960 He didn't, no. 727 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,960 I guess, from my point of view, hearing that... 728 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,960 ..the things that happened to us that are criminal, 729 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,640 the failure to be candid with us, 730 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,960 and Harriet's avoidable death, 731 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,960 stand no chance of having a prosecution brought by the CQC 732 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960 means that I wonder if we need to bring a prosecution, then, 733 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,800 against the CQC. 734 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,960 Because it was their failures to act, not ours. 735 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320 We told them, numerous people told them, 736 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:26,960 and they just did nothing, so... 737 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,640 They've failed to act. ..and then that's not our fault. 738 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,800 The real key thing here is actually, people will deliberately 739 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,960 run down this three-year clock to deny you... 740 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,000 Access. ..access to that justice. 741 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,960 ALL: Yeah. 742 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,960 I'm just really sorry, you know. 743 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,320 For Wynter's case, we got a prosecution. 744 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,960 But just hearing your stories, where your... 745 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,480 The clock's deliberately run down. 746 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Wynter Andrews died in her mother's arms. 747 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,960 'She lived for just 23 minutes. 748 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,320 'Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust 749 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,640 'has received a fine of £800,000. 750 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,960 'This is the first time 751 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,960 'that Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust 752 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,320 'has ever been criminally prosecuted.' 753 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,160 I am the mum to Wynter Andrews, 754 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,960 who died in 2019 at Queen's Medical Centre. 755 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,960 After Wynter died, 756 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,960 we were in the bereavement suite when the coroner rang us. 757 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,000 And the coroner said, 758 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,960 "I've been looking at your notes from when you came in on Sunday." 759 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,960 And I said, "I didn't come in on Sunday, 760 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,960 I came in on Saturday." 761 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,800 At which point, the coroner realised 762 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,960 that the Trust hadn't sent all the correct records over. 763 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,640 We later, at inquest, discovered that they'd actually ticked the box 764 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,960 to say that Wynter's death was an expected death. 765 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,320 Wynter was a perfectly healthy baby. 766 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,800 There was no reason for her to die. 767 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,960 The coroner ruled that she died due to the neglect of the Trust. 768 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,960 The Trust failed to care for us properly. 769 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,960 Had the coroner not rang me in the bereavement suite, 770 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,960 and had I not said "We came in on Saturday," 771 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,960 the coroner would have signed Wynter's death certificate. 772 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:16,960 They would have handed it out, 773 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,320 and Wynter's death would have gone uninvestigated. 774 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'This is only one of two prosecutions 775 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,960 'that the "Quality Care Commission" has brought 776 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,640 'against a maternity unit.' 777 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'The common word used by the judge about this hospital 778 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,160 'was "failure", over and over again.' 779 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,960 DAVID JOHNSTON: 'The baby daughter of my constituents, 780 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,960 'Gary and Sarah Andrews, 781 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,960 'died just 23 minutes after she was born.' 782 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,960 When they asked questions about that, 783 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,000 the parents were told that these things happen 784 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,480 and that if they had to listen to the concerns of every mother, 785 00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,960 they would be overrun. 786 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,960 Thanks to dogged campaigning by Gary and Sarah, 787 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,960 and other parents whose babies had died avoidably, 788 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,960 Nottingham University Hospitals Trust was found 789 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,960 to have systemic failures 790 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,800 and last week was given the highest... 791 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,960 JACK: 'There's so many red flags around the safety of this service.' 792 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,000 Three-and-a-half people with very serious outcomes every week 793 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,960 in a department that says, "Nothing to see here." 794 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,960 AVI: So... 795 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,800 You're told Harriet's dead... 796 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,960 ..then she was taken away? 797 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,800 Er, well, no, she would be in the cold cot. 798 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,960 They asked if we wanted her to sleep in the room, 799 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,960 but I couldn't... Like, during the night. 800 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,960 Erm, but I couldn't handle that. 801 00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:01,640 So, sorry to be blunt, 802 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:02,960 but she'd be in the freezer bit there, 803 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,960 and then when we wanted to see her, then she'd come out. 804 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,960 They asked if we wanted a postmortem. 805 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,960 They were quite non-fussed about it. 806 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,160 If we don't want her to have a postmortem, we don't have to, 807 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000 but we did because we needed an answer. 808 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,960 We didn't want them to blame her. 809 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,960 I don't know how long it was. 810 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,960 It must've been, like, ten days or something 811 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,960 whilst her postmortem was being arranged, 812 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480 so we still had access to her... 813 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,960 which felt so normal. 814 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,960 And her skin was soft, and... 815 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,960 ..she had a crooked toe, which had been causing you difficulties 816 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,960 through the late stages of pregnancy, hadn't it? 817 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,640 Cos it was stuck under your... 818 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,960 Oh, yeah, right under my rib. ..under your rib. 819 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,960 She had one slightly crooked toe, which we assumed was that. 820 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,800 When she went for her postmortem, that was the last time we saw her. 821 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,640 Yeah. Erm... 822 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:12,960 You read her a book and stuff, didn't you? 823 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,960 I did. JACK SNIFFS 824 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,960 I remember holding her, just... 825 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,960 ..wishing... 826 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,960 that she would come back to life, couldn't understand it. 827 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,960 And, yeah, we read her that book, I Love You To The Moon And Back. 828 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,960 And then we said goodbye to her. 829 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,960 And we put her down and left that room and walked out. 830 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,960 JACK: I remember the pain was extraordinary. 831 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,960 The pain of her not being alive, 832 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,320 and the pain of "you killed my daughter." 833 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,960 "You've covered it up, and you accused her and us." 834 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,960 And, yeah, I didn't want to be around. 835 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,960 So, yeah, pretty dark days. 836 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,960 But there's still a bit of me that just thinks, 837 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:29,960 "I'm a doctor. 838 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,160 "Why on earth did I allow this to happen to my family? 839 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,960 "I failed to protect my family." 840 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,960 The reality is that I was 100% in their care. 841 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,960 The parents of a baby girl 842 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,960 who died after mistakes by maternity staff in Nottingham 843 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,960 say they'd give back the settlement awarded for negligence 844 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:03,960 to have her back. 845 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,160 NEWS REPORTER: 'Jack and Sarah have been awarded £2.8 million, 846 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,800 'thought to be the largest pay-out 847 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,960 'for a stillbirth clinical negligence case.' 848 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,960 AVI: When did you put in a claim? 849 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:24,960 Erm, we met that barrister around August, September of 2016. 850 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,960 Yeah, he told us we didn't have any psychiatric issues, 851 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,800 we'd get a standard ten grand for a stillbirth, 852 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,960 and we wouldn't get any change at the hospital. 853 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,320 But that's another thing, like, we wouldn't have done that. 854 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,960 It was literally to get answers. 855 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,000 And then, you know, you do go down this route of, 856 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,960 "Well, the only way they respond is financially." 857 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:46,960 That's what hurts them. 858 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,960 They don't give a shit about anything else. 859 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,960 LOTTIE: Come on... 860 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,960 Can you cover both of my feet? 861 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,960 SARAH: Yeah, hold on. 862 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,960 LOTTIE GIGGLES AND SQUEALS 863 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,960 Say, "Toe monsters!" I can see your toes! 864 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,960 Argh, toe monsters! 865 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,000 'I stress about Lottie. 866 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,960 'Erm, I feel... 867 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,480 'it's much more difficult to talk about Harriet now cos I... 868 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,480 'feel that Lottie's innocence 869 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,960 'has just been completely stolen from her.' 870 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,480 Oh! 871 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,640 Can you do it again? Yep. 872 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:52,960 Whoa! 873 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,960 'So it's not just me and Jack. It's her. 874 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,960 'You know, a childhood of growing up 875 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,960 'with a dead sister who should be alive.' 876 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,960 Just put it on me gently. 877 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,960 'I worry I get that balance wrong. We do talk about Harriet.' 878 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,960 Oh, look at that. That's like a pink finger monster. 879 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,960 LOTTIE GIGGLES 880 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,960 LOTTIE SQUEALS 881 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,160 'I think, now I've had Lottie, 882 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,960 'I grieve the missed milestones with Harriet, too. 883 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,480 'You know, I've seen Lottie's first steps. 884 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,960 'I'll never see Harriet's. 885 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,960 'You know, I'll see Lottie go to school. 886 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,960 'I haven't seen Harriet go to school or anything like that, 887 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,960 'and it just adds an extra layer onto your... 888 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,960 'onto your grief.' 889 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,960 I do this. 890 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,640 'It's just so painful sometimes to let my mind even wander there.' 891 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,160 LOTTIE GIGGLES 892 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,960 Let's wipe your hands, please, and your feet. 893 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,960 Stand up here. OK. 894 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,160 AVI: One of the things I was thinking about 895 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,960 was the impact of it, then, on the two of you... 896 00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:01,960 ..in your relationship. 897 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:07,960 Erm... 898 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,160 Yeah, it's been really difficult. 899 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,000 Right. 900 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,960 'Are these made with your home-grown tomatoes, Lottie?' 'Yeah.' 901 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,960 LOTTIE SLURPS Good eating. 902 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,640 JACK LAUGHS Proper Italian. 903 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,000 'I feel like after Harriet died, 904 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,320 'I made sure that, you know, 905 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:33,960 'Jack was involved and everything like that, 906 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,960 'cos it's so easy for fathers not to be involved.' 907 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:37,960 Mmm. 908 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,960 'And then I feel like it got to a point where 909 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,000 'I wasn't recognised... 910 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,960 'what I'd been through... 911 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,960 '..and I just felt really alone.' 912 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,960 Keep it up, if you want. 913 00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,960 'Jack's response would perhaps be more impulsive than mine, 914 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:01,960 'so he'd want to email people straight back, 915 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,960 'whereas I reflect a bit on it. 916 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,960 'Then that just made me really anxious.' 917 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,960 Hello. Oh, hold on, let me just clean this paint up first. 918 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,800 I do, yeah. 919 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,000 'I felt like every day, there was some confrontation 920 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,480 'with the hospital or with someone else.' 921 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,960 Oh, my goodness. Look at that! 922 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,800 Wow. This is turning into a spot fest. 923 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,960 I kind of thought it was just with one senior midwife 924 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:29,960 to put our views across, but it will be... 925 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,960 'I find it easier to... 926 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,960 'deal with conflict and confrontation. 927 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,960 'And I found it quite difficult to not be able do it. 928 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,960 'That left me very stressed. 929 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,960 'You know, we need to be solving this now.' 930 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,640 That's not a meeting that I want to be in at all, 931 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,960 and I don't think it's appropriate for us to be in with them, and... 932 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,960 Just two very different ways of doing it. Yeah. 933 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,160 AVI: You've been involved in something very intense, ongoing. 934 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,960 You've put a lot of effort into it, 935 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,960 but the impact is that you don't live together any more? 936 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:12,960 Mm. Yeah. 937 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,960 And haven't for nearly four years. Hm. 938 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,960 LOTTIE SINGS 939 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,960 'Lottie was born. We separated.' 940 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,960 I can't remember, Lottie. 941 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,480 LOTTIE: This little piggy went to market. 942 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Today marks one year since the review 943 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,960 'led by senior midwife Donna Ockenden began. 944 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,960 'It's the largest maternity review of its kind, 945 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,960 'with 1,800 families involved.' 946 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'The staff and managers and former managers 947 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,640 'aren't compelled to come forward to your inquiry, 948 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:52,960 'your review, are they?' 949 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,960 DONNA OCKENDEN: 'The very clear message from me 950 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,960 'is that I am expecting all current and former staff 951 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,960 'who receive a formal letter from me to co-operate. 952 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,960 'In the unlikely event that anyone decides not to co-operate with me, 953 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,960 'I will take this to the top of the NHS 954 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,960 'and, if necessary, to government.' 955 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,800 I think, if it wasn't for our connections, 956 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,960 nobody would have told us some of the stuff that they've told us. 957 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,960 But then those people won't speak up. 958 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,960 Without whistle-blowers, it becomes a more difficult review. 959 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,000 NEWS REPORTER: 'Nottinghamshire Police has said 960 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,960 'it will launch a criminal investigation 961 00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,480 'into failures in maternity care at the city's hospitals. 962 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,960 'Holly, how is this police investigation 963 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,800 'likely to affect Donna Ockenden's ongoing review 964 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,320 'into maternity services at Nottingham's hospitals?' 965 00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,960 'Speaking earlier today, Chief Constable Kate Meynell says 966 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,320 'she wants to work alongside the review 967 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,960 'whilst not hindering its progress.' 968 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden expects her review 969 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,960 'to take at least 18 months. 970 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,800 'For those who've lost loved ones, though, 971 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,960 'it's a step closer to getting the answers they need.' 972 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,960 So, as of yesterday, we had 1,813 families 973 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,000 who are actively involved in the review. 974 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,960 In the next couple of weeks, I'm expecting, as chair, 975 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,960 to receive contact details for another 70 families 976 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,960 that the Trust have assessed are part of the terms of reference. 977 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,800 We've got 720 staff who are now in contact with us. 978 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,960 The government fully endorsed my work in March 2022. 979 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:01,960 We're two years down the line. 980 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,960 There is still an awful lot for government to do 981 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,960 right here and now 982 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,480 to improve maternity services for all mothers in England. 983 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,960 A lot of families met in person, 984 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,960 some for the first time a few weeks ago, 985 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:14,960 to share their experiences. 986 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,960 What do you think is the benefit in families doing that? 987 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,960 'What families said to me was that there is something very powerful, 988 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,320 'and some families said healing... 989 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,960 'that they've, you know, realised, many of them for the first time, 990 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,960 'that they weren't on their own, it wasn't just them. 991 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,960 'Families told me how the harm to their babies 992 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,960 'and their children had broken them. 993 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,960 'Marriages and relationships simply haven't survived the stress 994 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,960 'and distress caused by maternity harm.' 995 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,960 Back in November, I did a number of home visits 996 00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,320 and met families face to face here in Nottingham. 997 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,960 'Hearing of discrimination, of racism, 998 00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:04,960 'of some staff being dismissive and unkind. 999 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,960 'We will not tolerate this behaviour.' 1000 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,960 AMA: This is just family stuff. SHARMA: Yeah. 1001 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,960 'It just doesn't feel like it can be a home for us any more. 1002 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,960 'I just don't feel safe living in a city 1003 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,960 'where they have a hospital system like this, 1004 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,960 'they have a social services system like this, 1005 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,960 'and you can be falsely accused.' 1006 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,960 SHE SNIFFS 1007 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,960 These are her, erm... You haven't seen these, have you? 1008 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,960 No. These were her 3D... casts. 1009 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,160 SHE EXHALES 1010 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,960 SHE SNIFFS, SHE EXHALES 1011 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,960 Can you get a cloth so I can clean it? 1012 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,000 You can tell we don't go in her stuff, hey? No. 1013 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,640 SHE SNIFFS 1014 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,960 NEWS REPORTER: 'Well, earlier today, 1015 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,960 'the Chief Executive of Nottingham University Hospitals says 1016 01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,960 'that he will fully co-operate with the police investigation. 1017 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,960 'He's already working closely with the independent review, he says, 1018 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,960 'to ensure full transparency there.' 1019 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,640 DONNA OCKENDEN: 'So, it is the 28th of February 2024. 1020 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,160 'We are in Nottingham for a family meeting 1021 01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,960 'with the chair and chief exec 1022 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,960 'of Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust. 1023 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,960 'I've got Nick and Anthony here, 1024 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,000 'so can I just say "Over to the families?" ' 1025 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,960 JACK: So, thank you so much 1026 01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,960 for doing something that is remarkable 1027 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,640 and remarkable in the setting of... 1028 01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,960 erm, not having anything like this before. 1029 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,960 When I took up post 18 months ago, 1030 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,960 it seemed to me that we needed to step up our engagement 1031 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,960 with the review and particularly put some resource in place. 1032 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,960 Now that the numbers are trebled, 1033 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,960 that's become increasingly important. 1034 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,960 So it's probably somewhere between £1.5 and £2 million worth 1035 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,960 of resource every year because it's a very big review. 1036 01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,960 What them staff members need to understand 1037 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,800 is they're talking to somebody whose baby died. 1038 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,320 So we're gonna shout, we're gonna scream. 1039 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,960 And then it's... We're the bad people. 1040 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,960 And I'm not. I just want answers. 1041 01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,960 And when you've got people shutting the door at every avenue, 1042 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,960 you just get angrier and angrier and angrier, 1043 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:42,960 but then you're the issue. 1044 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,960 I think in some senses for us, as an organisation, 1045 01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,960 it's important also we're clear where we failed 1046 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,960 and what we're apologising for if we're going to rebuild. 1047 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,960 We've had an official apology from your predecessor, 1048 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,960 and I can assure you, it changes absolutely nothing. 1049 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,960 What I want, as a mum, is to know that those midwives 1050 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,960 who have done it to all of these mums 1051 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,960 are retrained or held to account or... 1052 01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:09,960 If I may, can I just say what we've said about...? Hm. 1053 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,160 WOMAN: Yes, yes. So... 1054 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,960 HE SIGHS 1055 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,960 I said, "Let me be very clear that as the public record shows, 1056 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,960 "in the area of maternity services, where we've failed 1057 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,640 "the families and communities that we exist to serve. 1058 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,960 "To make matters worse, having failed them, 1059 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:26,960 "we have too often worsened things 1060 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,320 "by not responding to them appropriately. 1061 01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,800 "Some families who we have had the chance to meet 1062 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,960 "have told us they want a meaningful apology 1063 01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,800 "that they recognise as meeting their needs, 1064 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,960 "including accountability and a change in the culture." 1065 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,960 Now, you may still feel it's not the right time, 1066 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,960 but I think it's important that is discussed 1067 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,960 and probably discussed outside of here. 1068 01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:49,960 SARAH: Just three points I'd like to add in. 1069 01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,960 I just want to get it in the final apology. 1070 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,800 I want you to apologise for victim blaming, 1071 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:57,960 I want you to apologise for gaslighting, 1072 01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,800 and I want you to apologise for the cover-up. 1073 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,960 That's what I'd like in the apology, 1074 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:03,960 cos that's all evidenced. 1075 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,960 ANTHONY: At a senior level, 1076 01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,960 we have recruited pretty much a whole new team. 1077 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,800 All the people we've appointed at executive level 1078 01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:19,160 since we've been in post have been external to the Trust. 1079 01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,960 JACK: I think it's incredible that you have changed a board 1080 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,960 who have sat, some of them, for a very long time. 1081 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,960 It shows that you've listened to us. WOMAN: Yeah. 1082 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,960 That... That's impressive. 1083 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,960 Wow. 1084 01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:45,960 'The struggle to get an independent, proper review 1085 01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,960 'in Nottingham was awful. 1086 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,960 'Now we have the review... 1087 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,960 'and the police are investigating.' 1088 01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:03,960 I want to see people in court for the death of my daughter 1089 01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,960 and so many other babies and mothers. 1090 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,960 This is just the beginning. 1091 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,960 We are not done, we are not finished, 1092 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,960 and we will not stop until that happens. 1093 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,960 HE PLAYS 'MOONLIGHT SONATA' 1094 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,960 SARAH: 'We still spend a lot of time together. 1095 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,960 'I think we have some really good times together.' 1096 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,960 I think we have some really bad times together, erm.... 1097 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,960 'It just exposed... 1098 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,960 '..how different we are, 1099 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,640 'which is, I suspect, how everybody might be if their child died. 1100 01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,480 'You think you're similar... 1101 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,800 '..but wait till you have to deal with this, and then... 1102 01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:05,960 'leaving the cap off the toothpaste tube 1103 01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,640 'becomes divorce material. 1104 01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,960 'Because it's an awful lot to put people through. 1105 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,960 'And, you know, I hold individuals responsible... 1106 01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,960 '..for my daughter's death... 1107 01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,960 '..for my mental health... 1108 01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,000 '..my marriage. 1109 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,800 'In order to start healing... 1110 01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:35,960 '..we need justice.' 1111 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,960 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 84411

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