Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
2
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,960
NEWS REPORTER:
'An inquiry into the deaths
3
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,960
'of babies in Nottingham
is expected to become
4
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
5
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,960
'the biggest maternity investigation
in NHS history.
6
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,960
'Around 1,700 families
who received maternity care
7
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,960
'from the Nottingham University
Hospitals NHS Trust
8
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,960
'are to have their cases reviewed.'
9
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'The review,
led by midwife Donna Ockenden,
10
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,960
'will find out
whether dozens of babies died
11
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,800
'or were seriously injured
because of poor care.'
12
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'Around 100 people
gathered here in West Bridgford
13
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,960
'to hear the latest
on the investigation
14
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,960
'into maternity failings
15
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,960
'at both the Queen's Medical Centre
and City Hospital.'
16
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,960
Good afternoon, and...
17
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,960
thank you so much for coming,
and welcome.
18
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,960
My name's Jack Hawkins.
19
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,960
It's bittersweet
seeing so many people here.
20
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,960
I don't really know what to say,
21
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,960
because my daughter didn't survive
routine health care.
22
00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,960
I'm Sarah Hawkins.
23
00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,960
I'm a mummy
to two beautiful daughters.
24
00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,800
Harriet should be seven,
and Lottie is four.
25
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,960
Hi, everybody, I'm Natalie.
26
00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:22,960
My son Kouper never opened his eyes.
27
00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,320
He never moved a muscle.
28
00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:25,960
He never fed.
29
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,160
Wynter was a perfectly healthy baby.
30
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,800
There was no reason for her to die.
31
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,640
I'm a harmed mum,
32
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,960
and the problem is it doesn't stop
33
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,960
because we're still here
eight years on.
34
00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,800
What we're most worried about
is that harm is ongoing.
35
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,960
NEWS REPORTER:
'Donna Ockenden is calling for
36
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:46,960
'more families to come forward,
37
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,960
'or her inquiry risks
being a failure.'
38
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,960
This is a call to arms.
39
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,960
We must now all speak to Donna,
40
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,960
to get the justice we deserve.
41
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,800
Thank you.
42
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,160
APPLAUSE
43
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,960
PIANO PLAYS GENTLY
44
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,960
HE PLAYS
'WHERE IS MY MIND?'
45
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,960
There you go.
Oh, thank you.
46
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,960
PIANO MUSIC
CONTINUES
47
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,960
SARAH: 'So, I met Jack in 2008.'
48
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,960
We both worked at the hospital
at the time.
49
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,960
I was a physio,
and Jack was one of the doctors.
50
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,960
And he told me a really bad joke.
51
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,960
JACK: 'I had a bad shoulder,
52
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,960
'and I was trying
to get you to fix it.
53
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,640
'You were, like, so dismissive.'
THEY LAUGH
54
00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:13,000
Shoulders weren't my speciality.
55
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,480
Yeah, but still,
you know, read the signs.
56
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,960
THEY LAUGH
57
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,960
We got married November 2013.
58
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,960
I think it was less than a year
after we got engaged.
59
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,960
It was ace, wasn't it?
Yeah.
60
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,960
Often spoken about.
Yeah.
61
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,640
We're both one of four,
62
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,960
then we thought we'd have
four kids, country house, dog...
63
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,960
Did we? I thought we said three?
64
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,960
Oh, no, because you can't have
an odd number.
65
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,320
Fair enough.
66
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,960
PIANO MUSIC
CONTINUES
67
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,320
BIRDSONG
68
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,960
SARAH: Lottie, would you like
cordial or a Fruit Shoot?
69
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,960
Cordial.
Yeah, in your Charlotte cup?
70
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,960
You can do your work, we do ours.
71
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,160
JACK: Oh, you gonna do some work?
72
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,160
Can you hear it?
Mummy, just a little louder.
73
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,960
Is that OK?
Yeah.
74
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,960
Not too loud?
Not too loud. OK.
75
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,320
So there's... This is the timeline
of what happened in our care.
76
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,000
Yeah, yeah.
I can put that file on the chair,
77
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,960
and I'll have the computer,
if you don't mind writing it?
78
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,960
No. I'll write.
79
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,960
NEWS REPORTER:
'Baby Harriet Hawkins was born dead
80
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,320
'at Nottingham City Hospital
on the 17th of April 2016.
81
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,960
'She died as a result
of a mismanaged labour.
82
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,960
'Harriet's father, Jack,
is a hospital consultant.
83
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,960
'Her mother, Sarah,
is a senior physiotherapist.
84
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,000
'Both worked for
the hospital trust responsible
85
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,960
'for the death of their baby,
their first child.'
86
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,960
Do you want to just
use your normal pen? Yeah.
87
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,320
NEWS REPORTER: 'Since that day,
the couple have campaigned
88
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,960
'to force the Trust
to acknowledge it made mistakes.
89
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,960
'Mistakes which they believed
had been covered up.'
90
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,960
So, let's just be clear,
91
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,480
what do you think
that Donna wants from us?
92
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,960
Well, I think she needs to know,
Donna needs to know...
93
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,960
..basically all of Harriet's story
94
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,960
and what went on
during my pregnancy and birth.
95
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,960
Her due date was 11th, wasn't it?
96
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,960
Due 11-4-16.
97
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,960
I started having contractions
through the night,
98
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,800
so they never stopped
over the whole six days.
99
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:36,960
Six to nine mins.
100
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,960
'It's been nearly eight years
since Harriet died, and, erm,
101
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,960
'yeah, I remember
every second of it,
102
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,960
'like, it feels like
it was yesterday.'
103
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,480
Then that evening,
that's when we did go in.
104
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,480
That's the first time
that they suggested
105
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,960
this was latent labour,
106
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,960
and that was in our heads then?
107
00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,960
Yeah.
108
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,960
I made 13 contacts
with the hospital.
109
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,960
They just weren't listening to me
when I was asking for help.
110
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,800
On the 16th,
they told me to come in...
111
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,960
..and I said, "Will I need an
epidural because I'm not managing?"
112
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,960
And then she said,
"Oh, no, you're too early for that,
113
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,960
"but why don't we give you...
some diamorphine?"
114
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,960
Which is ridiculous
when you think about it,
115
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,480
a massive dose of opiates.
116
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,960
And so,
without the doctor seeing you,
117
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,960
you had ten milligrams
of diamorphine.
118
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,960
Codeine.
119
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,320
We didn't know this at the time,
did we?
120
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:34,960
We found this out afterwards.
121
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,960
Codeine, 60,
and one gram of IV paracetamol.
122
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:39,960
Yeah.
123
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,960
Which is massive, isn't it?
It's huge.
124
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,960
I've never... I've...
125
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,960
Just cannot imagine giving
those doses of those medicines
126
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,960
and letting anybody home.
127
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,960
'You know, having these six days
of just begging for help
128
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,960
'and no-one agreeing with me
or, you know,
129
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,960
'basically, I felt like a fraud.'
130
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,960
And then on the 17th...
131
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,960
..phone call to the labour suite,
132
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,960
and that was
the worst phone call ever. Yeah.
133
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:12,960
She was horrible.
Yeah.
134
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,960
'Er... That was...
135
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,960
'Oh, that lady was just horrific.
136
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:21,960
She said, "I'm sure you're not
in established labour,
137
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960
"so stay at home."
So I got off that call,
138
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,960
and I was just
lying on the sofa, crying,
139
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,960
and then something started
to hang out of me.
140
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,960
That was ten to four.
141
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,960
We jumped straight in the car
to the hospital.
142
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,320
I walked in,
there were three staff.
143
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,960
One of them was the midwife
I'd had the phone call with.
144
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,960
She just shouted
down the corridor to me,
145
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,480
"Is it still hanging out of you?"
146
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,960
So then I just burst into tears
because I'd been in labour
147
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,960
for, like, six days,
and I was exhausted.
148
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,640
Then that midwife said, "Does it
feel like you need to push?"
149
00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,960
And I was like, "Yeah."
150
00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:01,960
Then she said,
"Oh, I can see the baby's head.
151
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,960
"The baby's about to come.
You're too late for pain relief."
152
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,960
'She had said, "I'm just gonna
check the baby's heart rate."
153
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,000
'She struggled to find it.
154
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,960
'So then they called for the doctor,
and then the doctor scanned
155
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,480
'and said,
"I'm sorry, your baby's dead." '
156
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,480
'I think I just wanted to die.'
157
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,960
'Yeah, you know, like...
158
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,960
'I was asking for help.'
159
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,960
I think I'd convinced myself
it was a boy.
160
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,960
I think we had. Yeah.
Yeah.
161
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,960
I quite liked Arthur.
162
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,960
I remember when we saw her,
I was like,
163
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,960
"Oh, she definitely looks
like a little Harriet." She does.
164
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,960
Harriet Ella Rene Hawkins.
165
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,320
She was perfect, wasn't she?
166
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,960
Hi, Avi, how are you?
Good to see you. And you.
167
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:33,960
Hi, Avi, nice to see you again.
168
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,960
'I've had multiple therapists
at different times
169
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,000
'for slightly different reasons.'
170
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,480
Thank you for coming again.
171
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,960
We've never seen anyone...
Together? ..together.
172
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,960
I see.
No. In therapy.
173
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:55,960
We're here because you've suffered
the unexpected death of your child
174
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,960
and then found yourselves
175
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,960
in a years-long fight to be heard.
176
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,960
Yeah, erm...
177
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,000
'Yeah, absolutely.
178
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,960
'The toll that has taken on us
needs some sorting out.' 'Mm-hm.'
179
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,800
'After Harriet died,
for days, for weeks,
180
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,960
'we expected them
to come forward to us and say,
181
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,960
' "Right, this is the death
of a completely normal baby.
182
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,960
' "What has happened here?"
183
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,960
'But they didn't do that.
184
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,960
'It was, "Nothing's happened.
Nothing to see here."
185
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,480
'And hushed,
and, "These things happen." '
186
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,960
They just refused
to even have a conversation
187
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,960
about what might have happened,
what else might have happened.
188
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,800
Do you think it's hungry?
Oh, is it?
189
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:49,960
Do you want some food, do you think?
190
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,960
Whoo!
191
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:53,960
Right, monkey.
192
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,960
I'm gonna need you to help me
Sellotape something on the wall.
193
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,960
You look like a professor.
JACK CHUCKLES
194
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,000
'They had done
their own investigation
195
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,960
'into Harriet's death.
196
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,640
'We didn't know about...
they were even doing this.
197
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,960
'It was completed,
it had the wrong place of delivery.
198
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,960
'In the end,
it said no faults by NUH
199
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,960
'and then they said
death was infection.
200
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,160
'As in, they tried to blame
Harriet's death on infection.'
201
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,000
We were saying
we don't agree with that at all.
202
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,960
And they said, "But this has gone
through six other consultants
203
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,800
"and four senior midwives."
204
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,960
Now, to us,
that's a chunk of the department
205
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,480
thinking that
this report was good enough.
206
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,960
And bearing in mind
we'd been blowing the whistle
207
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,960
all the way through this
and saying something's not right.
208
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,960
Also remember, I worked there.
209
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,960
We hoped that meeting
the Chief Executive
210
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,320
and the Medical Director
in January 2017,
211
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,000
they would go, "Crikey, yes, OK.
"Something's gone very wrong here."
212
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,960
'But then it became very clear
that they...
213
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,960
'they were interested
in maintaining
214
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,960
'the position of the hospital.'
215
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,960
I'm just gonna put some red here
for organisations. Yeah.
216
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,960
'And it would have
made a big difference, I think,
217
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,320
'if they'd said,
"This shouldn't have happened."
218
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,960
'Instead of that,
we were completely cast out
219
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,960
'and ignored and vilified.'
220
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,960
'We've got these emails
from the Trust,
221
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,640
'and they have written emails
about us,
222
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,960
'like, "When can we sue them
for defamation?"
223
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,800
' "They haven't had to fight
as hard as they have.
224
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,480
' "Their media releases
are full of lies." '
225
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,960
I feel like they're trying
to make me go crazy,
226
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,960
like, after all those years,
you know,
227
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,960
there's still that thing of...
228
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,960
them blaming us.
229
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,960
Cos I do feel like
that was one of their tactics.
230
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,960
Like, to make us feel
like we were grieving and...
231
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,160
..crazy.
232
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,320
And we were broke.
Well, I was broken.
233
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,960
'And, you know,
we were senior clinicians,
234
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,960
'so what else have they done
to other people?'
235
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,960
'We knew we cannot be the only ones.
236
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,960
'We searched the news.
237
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,960
We found a news report
of a young lad
238
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,640
who died two years before Harriet,
239
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,960
because at caesarean section,
240
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,960
they cut one-inch deep
with a scalpel into his head.
241
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,960
JACK: "Following the inquest,
Dr Stephen Fowlie, Medical Director,
242
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,960
"said, 'The pathologist concluded
243
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,960
" 'that this extremely rare
complication of the caesarean
244
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,960
" 'caused Carson's death.
245
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,960
" 'It will never be known
whether had this not occurred
246
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:08,960
" 'Carson would have survived.' "
247
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,960
Makes me so angry. What on earth?
248
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,960
'After that, my life, for years,
249
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,960
'was just
scrolling social media 24-7,
250
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,960
'just trying to find someone
with a dead baby.
251
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,960
'Which takes a toll.'
252
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,960
'We set up a Facebook page.'
253
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,960
It started off
with a small group of us,
254
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,960
and then it jumped to 12,
and then 20, and then 50.
255
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,960
Yeah, there's hundreds of us now,
256
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,960
talking to each other,
sharing information.
257
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,960
The most horrific community
you could want to be part of,
258
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,960
but at least
there are other people saying,
259
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,800
"Yes, your experience is mine."
260
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,960
'I feel a deep sense
of responsibility
261
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,960
'for these other families.'
262
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,960
Who else is coming?
263
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,800
Just us, I think.
Is this it?
264
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,320
The thing is, every time we meet,
265
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,000
there's at least one more bombshell
from one of us that we found out.
266
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,960
I don't think a week's gone by
where there hasn't been something
267
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,960
quite shocking that's come to light.
268
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,640
I mean, what, we're in 2023 now,
269
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,960
and we think
there's still more to come. Yeah.
270
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,960
When Sarah had to go back
and have a bladder scan -
271
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,960
that they should have done
272
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,960
a couple of weeks after
Harriet's death and they forgot -
273
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,960
they then sent us
to antenatal clinic with a letter
274
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960
saying, "Please make sure
your bladder is full
275
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:48,960
"so we can scan your pregnancy."
276
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,960
I get that,
and I don't have a bladder.
277
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:53,960
"Yeah, don't have one,
so what do I do?
278
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,960
"Can't come with a full bladder
if I don't have one."
279
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,960
They still don't even know,
even to this day.
280
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,320
I'm eight years on now, just,
281
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,960
because it's obviously
just Max's birthday.
282
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,960
They still don't even know
283
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,960
which of my ureters
they chopped off as well.
284
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,160
They chopped off the bladder
and one of my ureters,
285
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,960
and the urologist says one,
286
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,960
and the two doctors
that did it to me say another.
287
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,960
I don't even know
which body parts I've got.
288
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,960
When Wynter died and we were
in the bereavement suite,
289
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,000
the governance team come to us
with a letter, didn't they?
290
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,960
And I had to point out
it's not our son,
291
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:22,960
it was our daughter, you know?
292
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,960
And they're like,
"Oh, we'll go and change that."
293
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,960
So those little details,
you know. It's just...
294
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,960
You're going into the room
of a family whose baby's just died.
295
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,960
You go in there knowing if
it's a girl or a boy, don't you?
296
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960
You would if there were
any consequences. Well...
297
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,960
"It's the families
that don't remember",
298
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,960
I got told at inquest.
299
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:43,960
Was that the coroner?
The coroner.
300
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,960
I'd argue the opposite.
301
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,960
She favoured
the NHS's version of events
302
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,960
because the family had been
through something so traumatic
303
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,960
that they can't possibly remember
in what order those events happened.
304
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,960
It's exhausting, isn't it?
305
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,320
NATALIE: Kouper was born.
306
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,960
He didn't cry. He barely cried.
307
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,960
And I knew then
that something was wrong.
308
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,960
He was born at quarter to two
in the morning,
309
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,960
and he was discharged at
half past three in the afternoon.
310
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,960
Even though I'd raised concerns
that he'd never opened his eyes,
311
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,000
he never moved a muscle,
he never fed.
312
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,960
All I got told by midwives
was he was my fifth child,
313
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,320
and I should know
how to wake a baby and feed him,
314
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,960
and to go away and do it.
315
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,960
He died at quarter past two
in the morning
316
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,960
while we were asleep.
317
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,960
We rang 999
and was told to do CPR.
318
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,960
So I got my son on the floor
and did CPR the best I could.
319
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,000
When the ambulance crew
and everybody arrived,
320
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,320
me and my husband were arrested.
321
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,960
I wasn't allowed to sit with my son
in the ambulance
322
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,960
on the way to the hospital,
I had to sit up front.
323
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,640
I wasn't allowed to see him,
hold him or touch him.
324
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,640
The hardest thing was seeing my kids
325
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,960
watch their mum being taken away
for killing their brother.
326
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:22,960
SHE CRIES
327
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,960
'Some of us have fought for years
to get our medical records
328
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,800
'because we believe some of them
are incorrect or incomplete.
329
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,640
'At least we worked
at the hospital,
330
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,960
'and that's how we can help others.'
331
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,800
My problem is,
332
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,960
the memory that I have
of Kouper's state of health
333
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,960
is completely different to what
the coroner was told at inquest.
334
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,960
JACK: I'm gonna make some notes.
335
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,960
Erm...
336
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,960
Is it the 17th?
Yeah.
337
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,960
So, in here is everything...
338
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,640
Wow.
..right up to the present day.
339
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,640
Wow.
340
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,640
There is too much here to sort out.
341
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,960
They think by landing this on
my doorstep all together in one go,
342
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,960
that I'm just going to look at it
and go "Ugh."
343
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960
Nicely redacted, your info.
344
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,960
Do you know what it says
about your son?
345
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,960
What was under there?
God knows.
346
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,960
The police officer that was involved
347
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,960
came and brought
Kouper's belongings back.
348
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,960
She said,
"So, has anybody rang and told you
349
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,960
"that he had two collapsed lungs
on his MRI scan?"
350
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960
This is the police telling you?
Yeah.
351
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,960
So I went mad, rang the hospital.
352
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,960
She said to me, "Well, the reason
why I didn't tell you
353
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,960
"is because you collapsed his lungs
doing CPR,
354
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,960
"so you killed your son."
355
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,960
They made me believe
that he had no chance
356
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,480
of being brought back to life...
Because you...
357
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,960
Because I collapsed his lungs
doing incorrect CPR.
358
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,960
We was just told that we was
being, erm, arrested under caution
359
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,960
and he had to have an MRI scan,
360
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,960
and we couldn't see him
361
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,960
until they could make sure that
we'd not structurally damaged him.
362
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,960
It's only been since inquest
363
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,960
when the doctor that did
the postmortem stood up and said
364
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,000
that he felt that one of his lungs
was collapsed pre-birth,
365
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,960
or during labour,
366
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,960
that it hit me
that I hadn't done it.
367
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:41,960
WHISPERS: Fuck me.
368
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,960
On Kouper's shelf.
Yeah.
369
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,960
This one.
Yeah.
370
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,960
You can't really see it very well
cos it's glass,
371
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,960
but it has got his picture
engraved on it.
372
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,960
Oh, let's see.
373
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:27,960
Oh, Kouper.
374
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,640
It's that picture in there.
Yeah.
375
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,960
That picture was taken
literally minutes after he was born.
376
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,960
All we've ever done
is speak the truth,
377
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:40,960
yet we're always being told...
378
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,960
Well, we was told at inquest
it's not the truth. Yeah.
379
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,960
And that hurts because telling
a family who have suffered...
380
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,000
You've misremembered.
..such a tragic thing
381
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,960
that we can't possibly remember
what way it happened.
382
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,960
You will never forget
what way it happened. No.
383
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,960
I rang the hospital 17 times
384
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,960
and was repeatedly told
that there was no beds.
385
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,640
David had starved of oxygen
386
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,960
and passed away inside me.
387
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,960
We were told that she probably
wouldn't survive the birth.
388
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,480
We decided to end the pregnancy
389
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,960
because we didn't want
our daughter to suffer.
390
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,480
We found out the test results
came back completely clear.
391
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,960
You can't imagine that feeling.
392
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,960
The consultant says, "Well,
you could've miscarried anyway."
393
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,480
I'm still going
to have to give birth
394
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,640
to a baby
that's gonna come out silent.
395
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,960
And literally, your dreams
are shattered in an instant.
396
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,640
I wonder how my sleep will be
tonight.
397
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,960
Interesting dreams, I presume.
Interesting.
398
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,320
NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden,
the senior midwife,
399
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320
'recently reported on the
maternity scandal in Shropshire,
400
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,960
'which uncovered more than
350 cases of serious harm.'
401
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'Donna Ockenden
is leading the independent review
402
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,960
'examining dozens of baby deaths
and injuries,
403
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,960
'and mothers
who suffered serious harm
404
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,000
'at the Queen's Medical Centre
and Nottingham City Hospital.'
405
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,800
SARAH: 'It's been a very long fight
to get this review to happen.
406
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,960
'We campaigned
for Donna to get here.
407
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,960
'Now we just need
for those responsible
408
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,640
'to be held to account.'
409
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,960
DONNA OCKENDEN: All reviews will get
this multi-professional assessment,
410
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,960
and they'll be graded.
411
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,800
Zero if the team
feels that care was appropriate,
412
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,960
to grade three
if there were major concerns
413
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,960
in which, in all likelihood,
414
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960
different care
would have changed the outcome.
415
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,960
The original families
who campaigned so hard,
416
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,960
they all met the terms of reference
and they were within the review.
417
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,960
So that room?
418
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,000
'I think I would like
just to sort of refresh
419
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,960
'what it is that you are doing.'
420
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,960
'We will consider all of the
evidence that is possibly available.
421
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,800
'Medical records
are a large part of that.
422
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,960
'Family testimonies,
governance and risk information,
423
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,960
'so it all comes together
in one big jigsaw.
424
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,960
'And, you know, family voices.'
425
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:03,160
I know you know
this runs absolutely central,
426
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,800
right through the review.
427
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,960
I guess, after meeting
all the families... Yeah.
428
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,960
..what I really want to know
is when...
429
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,960
when, you know, substantive change
is going to be made
430
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,480
and when care
is going to be safe again at NUH?
431
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,960
OK, I am seeing
a definite intention, erm,
432
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,320
that families will be listened to
433
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,960
and that what families say matters.
434
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,960
With that in mind,
families want to understand
435
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,800
what an apology would look like.
436
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,640
A proper apology, not a
"we reiterate our condolences."
437
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,960
OK. OK.
438
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,800
Erm, just talking specifically
about Harriet now,
439
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,960
that we've given you, erm,
evidence that we have and stuff,
440
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,320
and whether there's anything more
that we can give you
441
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,800
to develop her case and...?
442
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,960
What would be really helpful
to my review team
443
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,960
would be a timeline
from your perspective.
444
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:04,320
You know, what you want the review
to understand and highlight
445
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960
is the huge amount of effort
that you put into,
446
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,480
erm, trying to tell the Trust
very soon after Harriet died,
447
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,960
erm, about the problems
that they had.
448
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960
And then, as you've explained to me,
how compounded your grief was
449
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,960
when you kept being pushed away,
pushed away,
450
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,960
"there's nothing here to look at."
451
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,640
You wrote to X
on such-and-such a date.
452
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,960
You wrote to Y, you wrote to Z.
453
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,960
You wrote to A, you wrote to B.
Yeah.
454
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,960
That would be extremely helpful
to my team.
455
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,960
These are all the emails
that I've found. Wow.
456
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960
So we just need to print out
the emails from that.
457
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,960
Yeah, so look at these emails
all to the medical director. Yeah.
458
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960
And that meeting,
I mean, it's all recorded,
459
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,960
but we totally
blew the whistle there.
460
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,960
And this is the stuff for Donna...
461
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,960
Yeah.
Because it is...
462
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,960
It describes a clear timeline
of people being told
463
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,960
and failing to respond
in a way that changed things.
464
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:12,960
I mean, look at this.
465
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960
"We have considered all relevant
incidents since December 2015.
466
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,960
"To date, ten of these cases
have been reported as SIs."
467
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,960
JACK: There are different categories
of incidents.
468
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,960
You have standard incidents,
and then serious incidents, or SIs,
469
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,960
which have to be investigated.
470
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,960
Any serious incident at a hospital
is reported
471
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,960
to the Department of Health,
who assess the safety of a hospital.
472
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,800
At Nottingham,
they invented a whole new category
473
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,960
called a "high-level incident",
which does not get reported.
474
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,960
And the medical director
has downgraded so many cases,
475
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,160
and that's frightening.
476
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,960
'I'm used, I guess,
to people taking me seriously.
477
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,960
'To have that so fundamentally
ignored is difficult.'
478
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,960
"We do not consider the threshold
for such referrals have been met."
479
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960
It's not right, is it?
480
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800
One of the things
that's been really challenging
481
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,960
is being not believed,
482
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,960
and so I've made notes,
conversations.
483
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,000
What I'm hoping is that
484
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,960
it becomes something for the police,
and for the courts,
485
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,960
because the regulators
have not wanted it.
486
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,960
Oh, here we go.
487
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,320
"Have you informed the police
that there has been a death
488
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,960
"of a completely normal baby
to completely healthy parents?"
489
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,960
"Respectfully, Harriet was not
a completely normal baby.
490
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,960
"At postmortem, there was evidence
of ascending infection,
491
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,960
"a recognised cause of stillbirth.
492
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,960
"We do not consider that
there has been any criminal act
493
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960
"or omission to prompt us to report
Harriet's death to the police."
494
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:17,960
There was no infection, was there?
495
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,960
And you were a physio?
496
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,960
Yeah, which I loved.
497
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,960
Loved my job. Worked really hard.
498
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,960
'So, both Sarah and I
lost our jobs.'
499
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,960
Now, they will say
it's for other reasons,
500
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,960
but we're clear, it's cos
we were blowing the whistle.
501
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,320
'I'd got a letter from my employer
502
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,960
'asking about my non-attendance,
503
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,960
'and the HR lady said that
she would continue to pay me
504
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,960
'until two weeks
after Harriet's funeral.
505
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,960
'And then I'd stop being paid.
506
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960
'Obviously,
our legal team challenged that.'
507
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,960
'I was off sick,
and then, out of the blue,
508
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,320
'got an email
from the medical director, saying,
509
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,960
' "Dear Jack,
can you please make an appointment
510
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960
' "so that we can discuss
your obligations to the Trust?"
511
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,960
'We had that meeting,
512
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,960
'and we spent most of the meeting
whistle-blowing,
513
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,960
'and at the end of it, he said,
514
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,480
' "I'm sorry, but you're not gonna
have a job for much longer,
515
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,480
' "so let's agree
that your last day is..."
516
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,640
'Well, it was December 2018.'
517
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,960
'You know, I always say it,
but to put it frank,
518
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,960
'you know, they killed our daughter,
519
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,640
'they've ruined our careers,
and they've ruined our lives.'
520
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,960
SHARMA: It's OK.
You all right? Yeah.
521
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,320
Nice to see you.
And you.
522
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,800
Hello! You've grown.
He's just woke up.
523
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,960
He looks like me
when I've just woken up.
524
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,960
How are you?
525
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,960
OK. Yeah. This is...
526
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,960
..erm... hard.
527
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,960
Hey, Ama.
Hello, mate. Sorry.
528
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,960
That's all right.
It's been a while.
529
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960
It's been very hectic for us
recently. Yeah, I know.
530
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,960
So, you're moving?
Yeah, yeah.
531
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,480
We just don't feel safe here,
to be honest. Yeah.
532
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,960
I feel like a voyeur in your life,
you tell me so much.
533
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,960
If it wasn't for you, then
there'd be no-one listening to us.
534
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960
I remember standing in that kitchen,
when I was first speaking to you.
535
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,160
The first time
that someone had believed us.
536
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,960
Yeah.
You understand?
537
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,960
You don't realise
what you've done for us.
538
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,960
You really don't.
Thank you.
539
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,480
You're doing good stuff, too,
by the way. This...
540
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,960
This is fighting that you're doing,
541
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,480
and everybody
that shoulders this burden
542
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,960
moves it on a little bit.
543
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,960
What's your background again?
544
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,480
Because you say
you know about ventilators.
545
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,960
So... So, I, erm,
was working with children
546
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,960
with complex health conditions.
OK.
547
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,960
Erm, so needing oxygen...
548
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,000
Night-time CPAP
and that sort of stuff. Yeah.
549
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,960
There are some people
who I think already want
550
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,960
to share their experiences.
551
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,800
Ama and Sharma,
are you comfortable to...
552
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:24,960
Yeah?
553
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,320
My name is Sharma Thomas, erm...
554
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,960
and I'm here to share mine
and my partner, Ama Maduako, erm...
555
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,960
our experience
at Nottingham City Hospital.
556
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,960
Erm, so...
557
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,960
From the moment
our twins entered this world,
558
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,960
we raised our voices in concern
559
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,960
to the nurses
and to the senior management.
560
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,960
They labelled us as parents who
didn't want our kids to have oxygen
561
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,960
and forcing us through a five-month
child protection investigation.
562
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,960
This left us unable to mourn
for the loss of our daughter.
563
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,960
She was four months old
564
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,960
and spent her entire life
confined to a hospital bed.
565
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,000
Ama, we've got some vital stuff
that needs to happen.
566
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,960
Erm, Donna needs us to collate
our evidence and get it to her.
567
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,960
Can you do that
before you move away? Yeah.
568
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,960
Every email, meeting memo,
phone call memo, everything. Yeah.
569
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960
You know, we were concerned
about the ventilator,
570
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,160
because, erm, our concerns were that
they were misusing the pressures.
571
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,960
I raised a question
about the ventilator.
572
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960
The machine wasn't working.
And they were trying to fix it.
573
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,960
They were stood there...
Yeah.
574
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,960
How is this not in front
of the coroner?
575
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960
They haven't told the coroner
that this happened.
576
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,960
Yeah. They haven't told the coroner.
What they did after this event
577
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,320
was they went and reported us
to social services
578
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,960
and said
we're refusing medical treatment.
579
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:14,960
We were actually in the hospital
580
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,960
going through
the discharge, erm, planning.
581
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Yeah. And then she dies.
She died on 25th January.
582
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,960
So they delayed her release
because the social services
583
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,960
was trying to basically
get a court order against us.
584
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,960
We just wanted clarity
on what treatment
585
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,640
the hospital were giving Adaora,
586
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,960
but the hospital interpreted that
as us refusing treatment.
587
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,960
ZEEK CRIES
Aw...
588
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,960
Bless you.
589
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,960
Right, thank you
for looking after me.
590
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,960
Just, just about.
591
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,640
I shall leave you to it.
592
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Ta-ra.
593
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,960
ZEEK CRIES
Come here. 'Ey.
594
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,800
Er, come on.
595
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,000
PRINTER WHIRS
596
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,640
The stuff I'm printing now
is evidence,
597
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,960
you get what I'm saying?
598
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,960
Have you got the medical note
where they review Adaora's machine?
599
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,960
Erm...
600
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,960
Do you need me to send it you?
Yeah, could you send me that?
601
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,320
That's pretty key evidence.
602
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960
You know when they first put her
on the ventilator?
603
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,960
When it went wrong? Yeah.
604
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,960
When it went wrong...
And they didn't tell the coroner.
605
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,960
But on her documents, they've said
that they don't know what caused it.
606
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,960
And then you have the nerve
to tell the coroner
607
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,960
that I caused harm to my daughter,
knowing that we're bereaved parents.
608
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,960
Maybe we should try
and call the coroner's office again.
609
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,640
They're not gonna talk to us.
It might be worth a try.
610
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,000
RINGING TONE
611
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,160
That's if they even pick up.
612
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,960
Hi. Hi, erm...
613
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,960
I was wondering if I could speak
to a representative?
614
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,960
My name's Ama Maduako.
615
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Adaora Maduako.
616
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,320
Yeah, it was 5th of September 2022.
617
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:53,960
OK.
618
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,640
HOLD MUSIC PLAYS
619
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,960
When it comes to NUH,
like, not everything's about race,
620
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,160
but some things are about race.
Yeah.
621
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,960
Like, think about it,
Jack, he's done so well,
622
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,960
done so much for us,
so much for all the families,
623
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,960
but they're listening to him.
624
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960
Yeah.
Why? Because he's a doctor.
625
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,960
He's reputable.
626
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,960
Who am I gonna listen to?
627
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,960
20-year-experience doctor
or Black guy from London?
628
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,000
If it wasn't for someone like him
being the spokesperson...
629
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,960
then why should they listen to us?
Yeah.
630
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,960
It sounds harsh, but that is
literally what it boils down to.
631
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,960
HOLD MUSIC PLAYS
632
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960
HOLD MUSIC STOPS,
DISCONNECT TONE
633
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,960
Yeah, that's what they do.
They do that all the time. Yeah.
634
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,960
That's literally
the fifth time they've done that.
635
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,960
Usually, they'll just respond
and be like,
636
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,960
"Oh, yeah,
we're not talking to you."
637
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,960
But they just started hanging up.
That's what they do. Yeah.
638
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,160
He's conked out.
639
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,960
Let me get him a blanket.
640
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,960
Go on, have baby Adaora's blanket.
641
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,960
You all right?
Yeah.
642
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,960
It's just seeing her blanket.
Yeah.
643
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,960
Cos, like, he looks like her when...
644
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,960
when he sleeps.
645
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,960
So...
646
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,960
SARAH: You've been told
you're just one of those things.
647
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,000
"Babies die sometimes." They don't.
648
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960
Because it isn't
one of those things.
649
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,960
Babies shouldn't just die.
650
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,960
NATALIE:
I will always talk about my son,
651
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,960
and I will always tell his story...
652
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,960
SHE SNIFFS
653
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,960
..because I was blamed for his death
for that long
654
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,000
that I actually started
to believe I'd done it.
655
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,960
And I started to believe
656
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,000
that I didn't deserve
my other five children.
657
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,960
FELICITY: I thought,
658
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,960
"They've covered up
and lied on all of my situation."
659
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,960
Eight years on,
I'm meeting families today
660
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,960
that have been told, as I was,
that it was my body's fault.
661
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,800
That was a lie.
662
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,160
AMA: They are trying their hardest
to gaslight and to misrepresent.
663
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,960
But there's nothing
they can do or say
664
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,960
that can change
what I know to be reality
665
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,800
because I was there,
and we witnessed it.
666
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,960
Right, where shall I do this one?
667
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,960
What background? Out there?
668
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,960
Something different?
It's good, I think.
669
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,960
I can't stop humming Peppa Pig.
670
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,000
SARAH LAUGHS
Hello.
671
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,480
JACK CHUCKLES
Oh, yay!
672
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,960
Well done. Hello.
673
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,960
'Having our Facebook group
of bereaved and harmed families
674
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:02,160
'means we can quickly
update everybody
675
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,960
'with information that might help
with their cases against NUH.'
676
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,960
There. Happy?
677
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,160
Erm...
678
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,960
One of the main things...
Well, you can talk about Harriet
679
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,960
and say we didn't get a look
for a prosecution
680
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,640
cos of this three-year limit
that we weren't aware of.
681
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,960
So just to make sure
everyone is aware of this
682
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,960
and how to contact them.
683
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Hello, this is a video
about the Care Quality Commission
684
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,960
and what they should be doing, erm,
685
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960
and how to access them and why.
686
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,960
What they do is they inspect,
687
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,960
give out ratings,
688
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,960
and they also prosecute.
689
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,960
So they are responsible
for prosecuting the hospital
690
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,960
and the hospital staff.
691
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,960
But there's a key piece about this.
692
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,960
The law is that
they have three years to prosecute.
693
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,960
If you are within that three years,
694
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,320
act, and do it loudly and clearly.
695
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:01,960
This rule is appalling.
696
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,960
Three years is nowhere near
long enough,
697
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,000
and to not let people know is awful.
Yeah.
698
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,960
Yeah.
699
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,960
I mean, it's survival for the first
couple of years, isn't it? Yeah.
700
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,960
And survival even if the hospital
have done a great job
701
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,800
and are communicating with you.
Yeah.
702
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Not survival
and then you've got to fight a...
703
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,960
..massive system.
Mm.
704
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,960
I believe
they're a failed organisation.
705
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,960
How can you have
so many baby deaths,
706
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,960
and you are responsible
for prosecuting them...
707
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960
..and yet,
there are only two prosecutions
708
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,960
against maternity units in the UK?
709
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,960
'It's fair to say we all believe
710
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,960
'the CQC must have
deliberately run down the clock
711
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,960
'in order to avoid prosecutions,
712
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,960
'because there have been so few.'
713
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,640
I don't think he understood
just how much we had
714
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,160
and how much we knew.
WOMAN: No.
715
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,960
Do you know what I mean?
He came across as very much like,
716
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,960
"This is just a bunch of families
that think they know it all,"
717
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,960
until we started talking
and then he was like,
718
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,320
"Wow, I really need to,
like, just sit back a minute
719
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,960
"cos they know
what they're talking about."
720
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,960
And that's the thing,
they underestimate us as families.
721
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,160
We've blown the whistle in there
with the Chief Executive of CQC.
722
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,320
Did you notice, though,
as a regulator on the whole of CQC,
723
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,960
for every one of us in that room
that he had failed
724
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,960
to deliver on a prosecution,
725
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,000
we didn't get an apology?
726
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,960
He didn't, no.
727
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,960
I guess, from my point of view,
hearing that...
728
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,960
..the things that happened to us
that are criminal,
729
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,640
the failure to be candid with us,
730
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,960
and Harriet's avoidable death,
731
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,960
stand no chance of having
a prosecution brought by the CQC
732
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,960
means that I wonder if we need
to bring a prosecution, then,
733
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,800
against the CQC.
734
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,960
Because it was their failures
to act, not ours.
735
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320
We told them,
numerous people told them,
736
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:26,960
and they just did nothing, so...
737
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,640
They've failed to act.
..and then that's not our fault.
738
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,800
The real key thing here is actually,
people will deliberately
739
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,960
run down this three-year clock
to deny you...
740
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,000
Access.
..access to that justice.
741
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,960
ALL: Yeah.
742
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,960
I'm just really sorry, you know.
743
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,320
For Wynter's case,
we got a prosecution.
744
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,960
But just hearing your stories,
where your...
745
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,480
The clock's deliberately run down.
746
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'Wynter Andrews
died in her mother's arms.
747
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,960
'She lived for just 23 minutes.
748
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,320
'Nottingham University Hospitals
NHS Trust
749
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,640
'has received a fine of £800,000.
750
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,960
'This is the first time
751
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,960
'that Nottingham University
Hospitals NHS Trust
752
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,320
'has ever been
criminally prosecuted.'
753
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,160
I am the mum to Wynter Andrews,
754
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,960
who died in 2019
at Queen's Medical Centre.
755
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,960
After Wynter died,
756
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,960
we were in the bereavement suite
when the coroner rang us.
757
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,000
And the coroner said,
758
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,960
"I've been looking at your notes
from when you came in on Sunday."
759
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,960
And I said,
"I didn't come in on Sunday,
760
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,960
I came in on Saturday."
761
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,800
At which point,
the coroner realised
762
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,960
that the Trust hadn't sent
all the correct records over.
763
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,640
We later, at inquest, discovered
that they'd actually ticked the box
764
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,960
to say that Wynter's death
was an expected death.
765
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,320
Wynter was a perfectly healthy baby.
766
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,800
There was no reason for her to die.
767
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,960
The coroner ruled that she died
due to the neglect of the Trust.
768
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,960
The Trust failed
to care for us properly.
769
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,960
Had the coroner not rang me
in the bereavement suite,
770
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,960
and had I not said
"We came in on Saturday,"
771
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,960
the coroner would have signed
Wynter's death certificate.
772
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:16,960
They would have handed it out,
773
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,320
and Wynter's death
would have gone uninvestigated.
774
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'This is only one
of two prosecutions
775
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,960
'that the "Quality Care Commission"
has brought
776
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,640
'against a maternity unit.'
777
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'The common word used
by the judge about this hospital
778
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,160
'was "failure",
over and over again.'
779
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,960
DAVID JOHNSTON: 'The baby daughter
of my constituents,
780
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,960
'Gary and Sarah Andrews,
781
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,960
'died just 23 minutes
after she was born.'
782
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,960
When they asked questions
about that,
783
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,000
the parents were told
that these things happen
784
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,480
and that if they had to listen
to the concerns of every mother,
785
00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,960
they would be overrun.
786
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,960
Thanks to dogged campaigning
by Gary and Sarah,
787
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,960
and other parents
whose babies had died avoidably,
788
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,960
Nottingham University
Hospitals Trust was found
789
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,960
to have systemic failures
790
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,800
and last week
was given the highest...
791
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,960
JACK: 'There's so many red flags
around the safety of this service.'
792
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,000
Three-and-a-half people with
very serious outcomes every week
793
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,960
in a department that says,
"Nothing to see here."
794
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,960
AVI: So...
795
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,800
You're told Harriet's dead...
796
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,960
..then she was taken away?
797
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,800
Er, well, no,
she would be in the cold cot.
798
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,960
They asked if we wanted her
to sleep in the room,
799
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,960
but I couldn't...
Like, during the night.
800
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,960
Erm, but I couldn't handle that.
801
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:01,640
So, sorry to be blunt,
802
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:02,960
but she'd be in the freezer bit
there,
803
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,960
and then when we wanted to see her,
then she'd come out.
804
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,960
They asked
if we wanted a postmortem.
805
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,960
They were quite non-fussed about it.
806
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,160
If we don't want her to have
a postmortem, we don't have to,
807
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,000
but we did
because we needed an answer.
808
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,960
We didn't want them to blame her.
809
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,960
I don't know how long it was.
810
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,960
It must've been,
like, ten days or something
811
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,960
whilst her postmortem
was being arranged,
812
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480
so we still had access to her...
813
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,960
which felt so normal.
814
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,960
And her skin was soft, and...
815
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,960
..she had a crooked toe, which had
been causing you difficulties
816
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,960
through the late stages
of pregnancy, hadn't it?
817
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,640
Cos it was stuck under your...
818
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,960
Oh, yeah, right under my rib.
..under your rib.
819
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,960
She had one slightly crooked toe,
which we assumed was that.
820
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,800
When she went for her postmortem,
that was the last time we saw her.
821
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,640
Yeah.
Erm...
822
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:12,960
You read her a book and stuff,
didn't you?
823
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,960
I did.
JACK SNIFFS
824
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,960
I remember holding her, just...
825
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,960
..wishing...
826
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,960
that she would come back to life,
couldn't understand it.
827
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,960
And, yeah, we read her that book,
I Love You To The Moon And Back.
828
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,960
And then we said goodbye to her.
829
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,960
And we put her down
and left that room and walked out.
830
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,960
JACK: I remember
the pain was extraordinary.
831
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,960
The pain of her not being alive,
832
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,320
and the pain of
"you killed my daughter."
833
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,960
"You've covered it up,
and you accused her and us."
834
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,960
And, yeah,
I didn't want to be around.
835
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,960
So, yeah, pretty dark days.
836
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,960
But there's still a bit of me
that just thinks,
837
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:29,960
"I'm a doctor.
838
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,160
"Why on earth did I allow this
to happen to my family?
839
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,960
"I failed to protect my family."
840
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,960
The reality is
that I was 100% in their care.
841
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,960
The parents of a baby girl
842
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,960
who died after mistakes
by maternity staff in Nottingham
843
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,960
say they'd give back the settlement
awarded for negligence
844
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:03,960
to have her back.
845
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,160
NEWS REPORTER: 'Jack and Sarah
have been awarded £2.8 million,
846
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,800
'thought to be the largest pay-out
847
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,960
'for a stillbirth
clinical negligence case.'
848
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,960
AVI:
When did you put in a claim?
849
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:24,960
Erm, we met that barrister
around August, September of 2016.
850
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,960
Yeah, he told us we didn't have
any psychiatric issues,
851
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,800
we'd get a standard ten grand
for a stillbirth,
852
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,960
and we wouldn't get any change
at the hospital.
853
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,320
But that's another thing,
like, we wouldn't have done that.
854
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,960
It was literally to get answers.
855
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,000
And then, you know,
you do go down this route of,
856
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,960
"Well, the only way they respond
is financially."
857
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:46,960
That's what hurts them.
858
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,960
They don't give a shit
about anything else.
859
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,960
LOTTIE: Come on...
860
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,960
Can you cover both of my feet?
861
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,960
SARAH: Yeah, hold on.
862
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,960
LOTTIE GIGGLES
AND SQUEALS
863
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,960
Say, "Toe monsters!"
I can see your toes!
864
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,960
Argh, toe monsters!
865
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,000
'I stress about Lottie.
866
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,960
'Erm, I feel...
867
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,480
'it's much more difficult
to talk about Harriet now cos I...
868
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,480
'feel that Lottie's innocence
869
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,960
'has just been completely stolen
from her.'
870
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,480
Oh!
871
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,640
Can you do it again?
Yep.
872
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:52,960
Whoa!
873
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,960
'So it's not just me and Jack.
It's her.
874
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,960
'You know, a childhood of growing up
875
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,960
'with a dead sister
who should be alive.'
876
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,960
Just put it on me gently.
877
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,960
'I worry I get that balance wrong.
We do talk about Harriet.'
878
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,960
Oh, look at that.
That's like a pink finger monster.
879
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,960
LOTTIE GIGGLES
880
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,960
LOTTIE SQUEALS
881
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,160
'I think, now I've had Lottie,
882
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,960
'I grieve the missed milestones
with Harriet, too.
883
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,480
'You know,
I've seen Lottie's first steps.
884
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,960
'I'll never see Harriet's.
885
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,960
'You know,
I'll see Lottie go to school.
886
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,960
'I haven't seen Harriet
go to school or anything like that,
887
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,960
'and it just adds an extra layer
onto your...
888
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,960
'onto your grief.'
889
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,960
I do this.
890
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,640
'It's just so painful sometimes
to let my mind even wander there.'
891
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,160
LOTTIE GIGGLES
892
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,960
Let's wipe your hands, please,
and your feet.
893
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,960
Stand up here.
OK.
894
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,160
AVI: One of the things
I was thinking about
895
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,960
was the impact of it, then,
on the two of you...
896
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:01,960
..in your relationship.
897
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:07,960
Erm...
898
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,160
Yeah, it's been really difficult.
899
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,000
Right.
900
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,960
'Are these made with your home-grown
tomatoes, Lottie?' 'Yeah.'
901
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,960
LOTTIE SLURPS
Good eating.
902
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,640
JACK LAUGHS
Proper Italian.
903
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,000
'I feel like after Harriet died,
904
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,320
'I made sure that, you know,
905
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:33,960
'Jack was involved
and everything like that,
906
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,960
'cos it's so easy
for fathers not to be involved.'
907
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:37,960
Mmm.
908
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,960
'And then I feel like
it got to a point where
909
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,000
'I wasn't recognised...
910
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,960
'what I'd been through...
911
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,960
'..and I just felt really alone.'
912
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,960
Keep it up, if you want.
913
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,960
'Jack's response would perhaps
be more impulsive than mine,
914
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:01,960
'so he'd want to email people
straight back,
915
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,960
'whereas I reflect a bit on it.
916
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,960
'Then that just made me
really anxious.'
917
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,960
Hello. Oh, hold on, let me
just clean this paint up first.
918
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,800
I do, yeah.
919
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,000
'I felt like every day,
there was some confrontation
920
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,480
'with the hospital
or with someone else.'
921
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,960
Oh, my goodness. Look at that!
922
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,800
Wow.
This is turning into a spot fest.
923
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,960
I kind of thought it was just
with one senior midwife
924
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:29,960
to put our views across,
but it will be...
925
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,960
'I find it easier to...
926
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,960
'deal with conflict
and confrontation.
927
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,960
'And I found it quite difficult
to not be able do it.
928
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,960
'That left me very stressed.
929
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,960
'You know,
we need to be solving this now.'
930
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,640
That's not a meeting
that I want to be in at all,
931
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,960
and I don't think it's appropriate
for us to be in with them, and...
932
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,960
Just two very different ways
of doing it. Yeah.
933
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,160
AVI: You've been involved in
something very intense, ongoing.
934
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,960
You've put a lot of effort into it,
935
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,960
but the impact is that
you don't live together any more?
936
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:12,960
Mm.
Yeah.
937
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,960
And haven't for nearly four years.
Hm.
938
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,960
LOTTIE SINGS
939
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,960
'Lottie was born. We separated.'
940
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,960
I can't remember, Lottie.
941
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,480
LOTTIE: This little piggy
went to market.
942
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'Today marks one year
since the review
943
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,960
'led by senior midwife
Donna Ockenden began.
944
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,960
'It's the largest maternity review
of its kind,
945
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,960
'with 1,800 families involved.'
946
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,960
NEWS REPORTER: 'The staff
and managers and former managers
947
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,640
'aren't compelled
to come forward to your inquiry,
948
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:52,960
'your review, are they?'
949
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,960
DONNA OCKENDEN:
'The very clear message from me
950
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,960
'is that I am expecting
all current and former staff
951
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,960
'who receive a formal letter from me
to co-operate.
952
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,960
'In the unlikely event that anyone
decides not to co-operate with me,
953
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,960
'I will take this
to the top of the NHS
954
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,960
'and, if necessary, to government.'
955
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,800
I think, if it wasn't
for our connections,
956
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,960
nobody would have told us some of
the stuff that they've told us.
957
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,960
But then those people
won't speak up.
958
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,960
Without whistle-blowers,
it becomes a more difficult review.
959
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,000
NEWS REPORTER:
'Nottinghamshire Police has said
960
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,960
'it will launch
a criminal investigation
961
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,480
'into failures in maternity care
at the city's hospitals.
962
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,960
'Holly,
how is this police investigation
963
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,800
'likely to affect
Donna Ockenden's ongoing review
964
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,320
'into maternity services
at Nottingham's hospitals?'
965
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,960
'Speaking earlier today,
Chief Constable Kate Meynell says
966
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,320
'she wants to work
alongside the review
967
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,960
'whilst not hindering its progress.'
968
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,960
NEWS REPORTER:
'Donna Ockenden expects her review
969
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,960
'to take at least 18 months.
970
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,800
'For those who've lost loved ones,
though,
971
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,960
'it's a step closer
to getting the answers they need.'
972
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,960
So, as of yesterday,
we had 1,813 families
973
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,000
who are actively involved
in the review.
974
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,960
In the next couple of weeks,
I'm expecting, as chair,
975
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,960
to receive contact details
for another 70 families
976
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,960
that the Trust have assessed
are part of the terms of reference.
977
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,800
We've got 720 staff
who are now in contact with us.
978
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,960
The government fully endorsed
my work in March 2022.
979
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:01,960
We're two years down the line.
980
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,960
There is still an awful lot
for government to do
981
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,960
right here and now
982
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,480
to improve maternity services
for all mothers in England.
983
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,960
A lot of families met in person,
984
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,960
some for the first time
a few weeks ago,
985
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:14,960
to share their experiences.
986
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,960
What do you think is the benefit
in families doing that?
987
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,960
'What families said to me was that
there is something very powerful,
988
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,320
'and some families said healing...
989
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,960
'that they've, you know, realised,
many of them for the first time,
990
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,960
'that they weren't on their own,
it wasn't just them.
991
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,960
'Families told me
how the harm to their babies
992
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,960
'and their children had broken them.
993
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,960
'Marriages and relationships
simply haven't survived the stress
994
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,960
'and distress
caused by maternity harm.'
995
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,960
Back in November,
I did a number of home visits
996
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,320
and met families face to face
here in Nottingham.
997
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,960
'Hearing of discrimination,
of racism,
998
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:04,960
'of some staff being dismissive
and unkind.
999
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,960
'We will not tolerate
this behaviour.'
1000
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,960
AMA: This is just family stuff.
SHARMA: Yeah.
1001
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,960
'It just doesn't feel like
it can be a home for us any more.
1002
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,960
'I just don't feel safe
living in a city
1003
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,960
'where they have
a hospital system like this,
1004
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,960
'they have a social services system
like this,
1005
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,960
'and you can be falsely accused.'
1006
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,960
SHE SNIFFS
1007
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,960
These are her, erm...
You haven't seen these, have you?
1008
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,960
No.
These were her 3D... casts.
1009
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,160
SHE EXHALES
1010
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,960
SHE SNIFFS,
SHE EXHALES
1011
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,960
Can you get a cloth
so I can clean it?
1012
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,000
You can tell we don't go
in her stuff, hey? No.
1013
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,640
SHE SNIFFS
1014
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,960
NEWS REPORTER:
'Well, earlier today,
1015
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,960
'the Chief Executive of
Nottingham University Hospitals says
1016
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,960
'that he will fully co-operate
with the police investigation.
1017
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,960
'He's already working closely with
the independent review, he says,
1018
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,960
'to ensure full transparency there.'
1019
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,640
DONNA OCKENDEN: 'So, it is
the 28th of February 2024.
1020
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,160
'We are in Nottingham
for a family meeting
1021
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,960
'with the chair and chief exec
1022
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,960
'of Nottingham University Hospitals
NHS Trust.
1023
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,960
'I've got Nick and Anthony here,
1024
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,000
'so can I just say
"Over to the families?" '
1025
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,960
JACK: So, thank you so much
1026
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,960
for doing
something that is remarkable
1027
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,640
and remarkable in the setting of...
1028
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,960
erm, not having
anything like this before.
1029
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,960
When I took up post 18 months ago,
1030
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,960
it seemed to me that we needed
to step up our engagement
1031
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,960
with the review and particularly
put some resource in place.
1032
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,960
Now that the numbers are trebled,
1033
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,960
that's become
increasingly important.
1034
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,960
So it's probably somewhere
between £1.5 and £2 million worth
1035
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,960
of resource every year
because it's a very big review.
1036
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,960
What them staff members
need to understand
1037
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,800
is they're talking
to somebody whose baby died.
1038
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,320
So we're gonna shout,
we're gonna scream.
1039
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,960
And then it's...
We're the bad people.
1040
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,960
And I'm not. I just want answers.
1041
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,960
And when you've got people
shutting the door at every avenue,
1042
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,960
you just get angrier
and angrier and angrier,
1043
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:42,960
but then you're the issue.
1044
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:46,960
I think in some senses for us,
as an organisation,
1045
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,960
it's important also we're clear
where we failed
1046
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,960
and what we're apologising for
if we're going to rebuild.
1047
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,960
We've had an official apology
from your predecessor,
1048
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,960
and I can assure you,
it changes absolutely nothing.
1049
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,960
What I want, as a mum, is to know
that those midwives
1050
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,960
who have done it
to all of these mums
1051
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,960
are retrained
or held to account or...
1052
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:09,960
If I may, can I just say
what we've said about...? Hm.
1053
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,160
WOMAN: Yes, yes.
So...
1054
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,960
HE SIGHS
1055
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,960
I said, "Let me be very clear
that as the public record shows,
1056
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,960
"in the area of maternity services,
where we've failed
1057
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,640
"the families and communities
that we exist to serve.
1058
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,960
"To make matters worse,
having failed them,
1059
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:26,960
"we have too often worsened things
1060
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,320
"by not responding
to them appropriately.
1061
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,800
"Some families
who we have had the chance to meet
1062
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,960
"have told us
they want a meaningful apology
1063
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,800
"that they recognise
as meeting their needs,
1064
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,960
"including accountability
and a change in the culture."
1065
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,960
Now, you may still feel
it's not the right time,
1066
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,960
but I think it's important
that is discussed
1067
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,960
and probably discussed
outside of here.
1068
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:49,960
SARAH: Just three points
I'd like to add in.
1069
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,960
I just want to get it
in the final apology.
1070
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,800
I want you to apologise
for victim blaming,
1071
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:57,960
I want you to apologise
for gaslighting,
1072
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,800
and I want you to apologise
for the cover-up.
1073
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,960
That's what I'd like
in the apology,
1074
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:03,960
cos that's all evidenced.
1075
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,960
ANTHONY: At a senior level,
1076
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,960
we have recruited
pretty much a whole new team.
1077
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,800
All the people we've appointed
at executive level
1078
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:19,160
since we've been in post
have been external to the Trust.
1079
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,960
JACK: I think it's incredible
that you have changed a board
1080
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,960
who have sat, some of them,
for a very long time.
1081
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,960
It shows that you've listened to us.
WOMAN: Yeah.
1082
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,960
That... That's impressive.
1083
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,960
Wow.
1084
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:45,960
'The struggle to get
an independent, proper review
1085
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,960
'in Nottingham was awful.
1086
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,960
'Now we have the review...
1087
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,960
'and the police are investigating.'
1088
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:03,960
I want to see people in court
for the death of my daughter
1089
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,960
and so many other babies
and mothers.
1090
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,960
This is just the beginning.
1091
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,960
We are not done,
we are not finished,
1092
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,960
and we will not stop
until that happens.
1093
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,960
HE PLAYS
'MOONLIGHT SONATA'
1094
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,960
SARAH: 'We still spend
a lot of time together.
1095
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,960
'I think we have
some really good times together.'
1096
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,960
I think we have some
really bad times together, erm....
1097
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,960
'It just exposed...
1098
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,960
'..how different we are,
1099
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,640
'which is, I suspect, how everybody
might be if their child died.
1100
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,480
'You think you're similar...
1101
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,800
'..but wait till you have to deal
with this, and then...
1102
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:05,960
'leaving the cap
off the toothpaste tube
1103
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,640
'becomes divorce material.
1104
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,960
'Because it's an awful lot
to put people through.
1105
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,960
'And, you know,
I hold individuals responsible...
1106
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,960
'..for my daughter's death...
1107
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,960
'..for my mental health...
1108
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,000
'..my marriage.
1109
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,800
'In order to start healing...
1110
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:35,960
'..we need justice.'
1111
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,960
Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com
84411
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.