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1
00:00:01,793 --> 00:00:03,378
[Jill] Previously on
Picket Fences...
2
00:00:03,378 --> 00:00:06,256
The man may have killed
a 16‐year‐old girl.
3
00:00:06,256 --> 00:00:08,675
No polygraph!
4
00:00:08,675 --> 00:00:11,136
And I don't want you even
talking to him!
5
00:00:11,136 --> 00:00:13,597
We've been looking
everywhere for this girl.
6
00:00:13,597 --> 00:00:15,933
I didn't do anything.
7
00:00:15,933 --> 00:00:18,268
In the name of God.
8
00:00:18,268 --> 00:00:20,395
She deserves
a Catholic funeral.
9
00:00:21,605 --> 00:00:24,650
Tell me someplace to go.
10
00:00:24,650 --> 00:00:27,527
‐[man] Lend me a hand.
‐[grunting]
11
00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:29,780
[indistinct police chatter]
12
00:00:33,909 --> 00:00:36,495
That statement was coerced,
without counsel.
13
00:00:36,495 --> 00:00:38,539
That statement
was voluntary.
14
00:00:38,539 --> 00:00:42,209
Deputy Lacos prevailed
on my client's
Christian sympathies.
15
00:00:42,209 --> 00:00:46,088
Mr. Latham,
you are going to trial.
16
00:00:46,088 --> 00:00:48,674
If the Supreme Court
has a problem with that,
17
00:00:48,674 --> 00:00:50,092
they can come and get me.
18
00:00:50,092 --> 00:00:51,635
We find the defendant...
19
00:00:51,635 --> 00:00:53,804
[inhales] guilty as charged.
20
00:00:53,804 --> 00:00:55,389
‐[people chattering]
‐[man] God, I knew it!
21
00:00:55,389 --> 00:00:57,266
This case is going
to the Supreme Court!
22
00:00:57,266 --> 00:01:00,936
You and I are going to argue
before the Supreme Court!
23
00:01:12,322 --> 00:01:13,490
[door opens]
24
00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:19,621
Carter... [sighs]
Come on in.
25
00:01:24,585 --> 00:01:26,420
Okay, very funny.
26
00:01:27,754 --> 00:01:29,840
Whose blood sample was this?
27
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,675
‐Just give me the results.
‐Carter...
28
00:01:31,675 --> 00:01:33,093
I don't have to tell you
whose blood it was.
29
00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:34,636
I just asked you to do
a simple test.
30
00:01:34,636 --> 00:01:37,055
So please,
give me the results.
31
00:01:37,055 --> 00:01:39,349
You lead me to believe
this was your blood.
32
00:01:39,349 --> 00:01:41,643
Let's just assume
that it is, Jill!
33
00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:43,562
Give me the results!
34
00:01:45,564 --> 00:01:49,192
‐Please!
‐Okay.
35
00:01:49,192 --> 00:01:51,236
Congratulations,
you're pregnant.
36
00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:52,946
[gasps] Yes!
37
00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:55,824
Oh...
38
00:01:57,117 --> 00:01:58,702
Yes!
39
00:01:58,702 --> 00:01:59,745
[door opens]
40
00:02:01,288 --> 00:02:03,290
[theme song playing]
41
00:02:59,638 --> 00:03:01,640
[theme song ends]
42
00:03:04,976 --> 00:03:07,312
I know you're good,
Mr. Wambaugh,
it isn't that.
43
00:03:07,312 --> 00:03:11,108
Brian, there is no way,
no lawyer,
44
00:03:11,108 --> 00:03:13,235
F. Lee Bailey,
anybody,
45
00:03:13,235 --> 00:03:16,488
there's no way that
anybody can be
more prepared than me.
46
00:03:16,488 --> 00:03:19,199
But you don't believe
I'm innocent.
47
00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:22,077
‐It really doesn't matter.
‐It does to me!
48
00:03:24,287 --> 00:03:27,916
You see, Mr. Wambaugh,
you've got it wrong.
49
00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:32,379
I don't want... I don't want
my lawyer to act like
his life depends on it.
50
00:03:32,379 --> 00:03:35,340
I want the guy to act like
my life depends on it...
51
00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:37,676
because it does.
52
00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:42,013
I want a lawyer...
who knows that I didn't do it!
53
00:03:42,013 --> 00:03:46,143
When those judges look
at my lawyer, I want them
to see it in his eyes.
54
00:03:46,143 --> 00:03:48,270
That I didn't do it!
55
00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:52,816
Are you that lawyer,
Mr. Wambaugh?
56
00:03:56,361 --> 00:03:59,322
I haven't been...
but I will be.
57
00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:05,245
[sighs] All right.
58
00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:07,831
Go to Washington.
59
00:04:09,082 --> 00:04:10,834
But don't you dare
go for you.
60
00:04:14,171 --> 00:04:15,297
Go for me.
61
00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:21,386
Positive! [sighs]
62
00:04:21,386 --> 00:04:24,222
That means
we're about seven weeks.
63
00:04:24,222 --> 00:04:26,933
[sighs]
I still can't believe it.
64
00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:30,896
I mean, I guess I just...
can't believe it.
65
00:04:30,896 --> 00:04:33,899
Okay, now, Stacy,
your privacy concerns aside,
66
00:04:33,899 --> 00:04:35,859
you have to start making
regular doctor appointments.
67
00:04:35,859 --> 00:04:37,319
And it's not too soon
for an ultrasound.
68
00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:38,695
And I'm going to
be wanting to do
an amnio
69
00:04:38,695 --> 00:04:40,447
when the time comes
too, so...
70
00:04:40,447 --> 00:04:42,866
Let's not get
ahead of ourselves, Carter.
71
00:04:42,866 --> 00:04:44,409
I like to be thorough.
72
00:04:45,410 --> 00:04:48,455
[sighs] God!
73
00:04:48,455 --> 00:04:50,791
[sighs]
I'm going to be a father.
74
00:04:51,792 --> 00:04:56,338
Yeah. [chuckles] Wow.
75
00:04:56,338 --> 00:04:58,840
[gasps] I want to schedule
an immediate checkup...
76
00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:03,386
‐[door opens]
‐Oh!
77
00:05:03,386 --> 00:05:06,932
I didn't mean to intrude,
I... I just came
to see you, Carter.
78
00:05:06,932 --> 00:05:11,311
You remember Stacey Halford.
Stacey, this is Jill Brock.
79
00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:14,439
‐Hi. Well, um...
‐[chuckles]
80
00:05:14,439 --> 00:05:16,274
Congratulations, I guess.
81
00:05:16,274 --> 00:05:17,692
Thank you.
82
00:05:19,236 --> 00:05:20,862
Are... are you two together?
83
00:05:21,822 --> 00:05:24,366
Uh... no, we're not.
84
00:05:24,366 --> 00:05:27,911
But... but you plan to be
parents together?
85
00:05:27,911 --> 00:05:31,122
I plan to be the parent.
Stacey has agreed
to be my surrogate.
86
00:05:31,122 --> 00:05:32,165
What?
87
00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:34,960
We did it in vitro.
88
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,628
It was all scientific,
lot's of people do it today.
89
00:05:36,628 --> 00:05:38,880
Oh, I... I know that.
Yes, I...
90
00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,968
I guess I'm just surprised.
91
00:05:42,968 --> 00:05:45,136
There are worst ways
I can spend my time,
92
00:05:45,136 --> 00:05:47,722
I guess than...
giving somebody a child.
93
00:05:47,722 --> 00:05:49,766
[Stacey chuckles nervously]
94
00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:53,478
What's wrong with that?
95
00:05:53,478 --> 00:05:56,189
Nothing. Nothing.
And it's certainly
none of my business.
96
00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:57,858
Why don't we leave it
at that then?
97
00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:01,695
‐Okay.
‐Okay!
98
00:06:07,117 --> 00:06:08,994
Me? I get to go?
99
00:06:08,994 --> 00:06:11,705
Of course,
you're my assistant.
100
00:06:11,705 --> 00:06:14,040
I'm going
to the Supreme Court?
101
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,835
All those cases we copied,
I want them alphabetized.
102
00:06:16,835 --> 00:06:18,795
I need to
refer to them quickly.
103
00:06:18,795 --> 00:06:22,757
Brian Latham's life
is in our hands.
104
00:06:22,757 --> 00:06:25,886
And don't forget...
to pack my oxygen tank.
105
00:06:25,886 --> 00:06:27,929
And if you see me
start to wheeze,
106
00:06:27,929 --> 00:06:29,472
just whip it out.
107
00:06:29,472 --> 00:06:32,601
I, uh... I've never been
so nervous before.
108
00:06:32,601 --> 00:06:34,978
You're gonna be great.
109
00:06:34,978 --> 00:06:38,231
I, uh... I've never been
so nervous before.
110
00:06:38,231 --> 00:06:39,482
Did I say this?
111
00:06:41,192 --> 00:06:43,695
I repeat myself
when I get nervous.
112
00:06:44,696 --> 00:06:46,406
Did I say this?
113
00:06:46,406 --> 00:06:47,908
[Max]
It's just another case.
114
00:06:47,908 --> 00:06:50,577
No, it's not just
another case.
115
00:06:50,577 --> 00:06:52,704
Why would the Supreme Court
agree to hear this so quickly?
116
00:06:52,704 --> 00:06:55,248
‐Something is up.
‐What do you mean?
117
00:06:55,248 --> 00:06:57,500
[sighs] There are two things
on the rise in this country,
118
00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,669
crime and police misconduct.
119
00:06:59,669 --> 00:07:01,296
Now the Court may have
chosen this case
120
00:07:01,296 --> 00:07:03,214
as a test to squash
one or the other.
121
00:07:03,214 --> 00:07:04,841
I just wish I knew which.
122
00:07:04,841 --> 00:07:08,094
‐[door opens]
‐[knocking at door]
123
00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:09,095
When do you leave?
124
00:07:10,805 --> 00:07:15,226
Tomorrow morning.
We argue Thursday.
125
00:07:15,226 --> 00:07:18,688
Shouldn't I go with you?
It might help if the father
of the victim was in the room.
126
00:07:18,688 --> 00:07:21,775
No. No, they would view that
as manipulation.
127
00:07:21,775 --> 00:07:25,070
It's not wise to stunt
with the Supreme Court.
128
00:07:25,070 --> 00:07:27,113
The highest court
in the land...
129
00:07:27,113 --> 00:07:28,907
they may free the man
who murdered my daughter
130
00:07:28,907 --> 00:07:30,617
because they don't like
the way you caught him.
131
00:07:32,994 --> 00:07:34,329
Yes, sir.
132
00:07:36,122 --> 00:07:38,917
No offense, Mr. Littleton,
I know you have talent but...
133
00:07:38,917 --> 00:07:41,544
shouldn't the Attorney General
be handling it at this level?
134
00:07:43,505 --> 00:07:45,590
[clicks tongue]
Well, he's sending me.
135
00:07:48,927 --> 00:07:50,178
Please don't lose.
136
00:07:52,847 --> 00:07:55,183
‐[woman speaks indistinctly]
‐[door closes]
137
00:07:58,603 --> 00:08:00,021
[chuckles]
138
00:08:08,655 --> 00:08:11,408
‐[door opens]
‐[Stacey] Carter?
139
00:08:11,408 --> 00:08:14,577
Stacey, hi, come on in.
Sit, sit.
140
00:08:14,577 --> 00:08:15,995
I can't.
141
00:08:15,995 --> 00:08:17,455
You can't sit?
142
00:08:17,455 --> 00:08:19,082
I can't.
143
00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:24,295
[sighs]
144
00:08:24,295 --> 00:08:27,841
It... it all seemed
to make sense,
until actually...
145
00:08:27,841 --> 00:08:32,095
Um... Oh, Carter,
we've become such
good friends now.
146
00:08:34,097 --> 00:08:36,266
When you came to me
and asked me...
147
00:08:36,266 --> 00:08:38,518
I don't think I've ever
been more flattered.
148
00:08:40,478 --> 00:08:42,272
And... and to give life...
149
00:08:42,272 --> 00:08:45,942
What would be so wrong?
150
00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:47,277
[stutters]
What are you saying?
151
00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:50,739
It feels wrong.
152
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,284
I'm not comfortable
being a surrogate.
153
00:08:58,121 --> 00:09:02,459
Uh, here's the check.
I'm returning the money.
154
00:09:02,459 --> 00:09:04,544
Stacey... Stacey,
what are you doing?
155
00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:06,546
[sighs] I'm not going to
have the baby, Carter.
156
00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:10,216
[sighs] I know
you're disappointed,
157
00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:12,427
but I just can't
go through with it.
158
00:09:12,427 --> 00:09:15,221
‐[sighs] We had an agreement.
‐I know.
159
00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:17,974
I'm sorry.
160
00:09:22,729 --> 00:09:26,107
Uh, please accept
my deepest apologies.
161
00:09:43,875 --> 00:09:45,293
[indistinct chatter]
162
00:09:45,293 --> 00:09:47,128
[Douglas] My brother‐in law's
a travel agent,
163
00:09:47,128 --> 00:09:48,922
he always bumps me up.
164
00:09:48,922 --> 00:09:51,007
Hmm. You'll have to
thank him for me.
165
00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:55,428
Why shouldn't we be up here?
Hey, miss.
166
00:09:55,428 --> 00:09:57,305
We're off
to the Supreme Court.
167
00:09:57,305 --> 00:09:59,015
‐I see.
‐[chuckles]
168
00:09:59,015 --> 00:10:01,309
Excuse me. Could you speak
just a little softer?
169
00:10:01,309 --> 00:10:02,393
I'd like to sleep.
170
00:10:02,393 --> 00:10:05,188
Of course. Miss...
171
00:10:05,188 --> 00:10:08,108
‐[man grunts]
‐I'll have his French toast.
172
00:10:12,237 --> 00:10:15,365
You got profiles
on the Supreme Court Justices?
173
00:10:15,365 --> 00:10:16,908
You got...
you got profiles?
174
00:10:16,908 --> 00:10:19,369
It's these little things
that make the difference.
175
00:10:19,369 --> 00:10:20,954
The extra effort.
176
00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:23,540
‐Oh, let me look at them.
‐[grunts] They're mine!
177
00:10:28,753 --> 00:10:31,131
‐You scared, John?
‐[scoffs] Please.
178
00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:35,927
‐Yeah.
‐Mmm.
179
00:10:35,927 --> 00:10:38,054
Completely.
180
00:10:38,054 --> 00:10:40,682
Rehnquist, Scalia,
Stevens‐‐
181
00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:42,559
We're going to be standing
up there in front of them.
182
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,435
I shouldn't tell you this,
but Rehnquist...
183
00:10:44,435 --> 00:10:48,231
Uh, you have to call him
Mr. Chief Justice, I know.
184
00:10:48,231 --> 00:10:51,818
When Nixon swore him in,
he called him Renchberg.
185
00:10:51,818 --> 00:10:54,237
‐[both laugh]
‐Can you imagine?
186
00:10:54,237 --> 00:10:56,823
The man makes it all the way
to the Supreme Court...
187
00:10:56,823 --> 00:10:59,742
and on his big day,
Nixon calls him Renchberg!
188
00:10:59,742 --> 00:11:01,744
[both laughing loudly]
189
00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:04,706
‐Terrible with names, Nixon.
‐Yeah.
190
00:11:04,706 --> 00:11:07,750
‐[man clears throat]
‐Try to sleep.
191
00:11:09,752 --> 00:11:11,796
[man grumbles]
192
00:11:11,796 --> 00:11:15,008
I have an appointment
with Dershowitz
at three o'clock.
193
00:11:15,008 --> 00:11:17,427
‐Alan Dershowitz?
‐He's in Washington
194
00:11:17,427 --> 00:11:20,930
He agreed to tutor me
on what to expect.
195
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:22,891
I'm leaving nothing
to chance, John.
196
00:11:22,891 --> 00:11:25,393
I'm going to win this case.
197
00:11:25,393 --> 00:11:26,394
[scoffs] No you're not.
198
00:11:26,394 --> 00:11:28,313
Oh, yes, I am. I must.
199
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,940
Doug, as prepared
as you think you are,
you're not.
200
00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:32,483
I plan to bury you.
201
00:11:32,483 --> 00:11:34,944
‐We'll see.
‐Yes, we will.
202
00:11:34,944 --> 00:11:37,197
[both men laughing]
203
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:51,544
I don't perform abortions.
204
00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:54,881
I know. I was hoping
you could recommend
a doctor who does.
205
00:11:54,881 --> 00:11:57,634
A good one. So...
206
00:11:57,634 --> 00:12:02,096
Well, wouldn't your OB/GYN
be able to make
that recommendation?
207
00:12:02,096 --> 00:12:05,642
The truth is, I haven't
told her I'm pregnant.
208
00:12:05,642 --> 00:12:09,479
I'd sort of prefer not to.
I'm a little... humiliated.
209
00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:16,486
All right.
210
00:12:21,074 --> 00:12:22,283
[sighs]
211
00:12:24,869 --> 00:12:27,247
I saw your car
parked out front.
212
00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:31,668
Stacey, I'm begging you‐‐
213
00:12:31,668 --> 00:12:34,337
Um, Carter, please.
Why don't you two
go in here?
214
00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:54,649
You can't...
abort this child.
215
00:12:54,649 --> 00:12:58,319
I can't go through
with it, Carter.
216
00:12:58,319 --> 00:13:00,196
I'm sorry
for doing this to you.
217
00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:03,491
‐I should've known before‐‐
‐No, you can't!
218
00:13:03,491 --> 00:13:06,452
I know surrogacy is right
for a lot of people,
219
00:13:06,452 --> 00:13:08,246
it's just wrong for me.
220
00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:13,334
‐I have to do this.
‐I'll stop you.
221
00:13:15,712 --> 00:13:17,422
You can't stop me.
222
00:13:28,057 --> 00:13:31,269
Well, here we are,
Wambaugh and Dershowitz,
223
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:34,439
talking law,
discussing strategies,
224
00:13:34,439 --> 00:13:36,733
constitutional scholars
waxing.
225
00:13:36,733 --> 00:13:39,694
Mr. Wambaugh, please,
my time really is limited.
226
00:13:39,694 --> 00:13:41,237
I do have
a couple of other cases.
227
00:13:41,237 --> 00:13:42,989
So if we can
get right to the point.
228
00:13:42,989 --> 00:13:45,324
Well, I'm ready
on the law...
229
00:13:45,324 --> 00:13:48,161
but I need to know from
somebody who's been there.
230
00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:50,788
Somebody who's been
in that room.
231
00:13:50,788 --> 00:13:52,999
I know, it's just
another courtroom‐‐
232
00:13:52,999 --> 00:13:55,251
Except with
more judges, right?
233
00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:57,128
‐Uh, nothing to be‐‐
‐Mr. Wambaugh...
234
00:13:57,128 --> 00:13:59,547
this courtroom
is unlike anything
235
00:13:59,547 --> 00:14:02,133
you have ever seen
in your life.
236
00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:06,763
For starters,
you'll be staring down nine
Supreme Court Justices,
237
00:14:06,763 --> 00:14:10,183
spanning the entire width
of the room.
238
00:14:10,183 --> 00:14:12,560
That can be a very
daunting experience.
239
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,604
One Justice will ask you
a question from here,
240
00:14:14,604 --> 00:14:15,897
then you'll be attacked
from there‐‐
241
00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:18,149
And it will be an attack.
242
00:14:18,149 --> 00:14:20,068
This is an aggressive court.
243
00:14:20,068 --> 00:14:22,820
This is a confrontational court.
This is an argumentative court.
244
00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:27,408
This is not gonna be
a friendly experience.
245
00:14:27,408 --> 00:14:30,036
Franklin Dell appearing
for Carter Pike, Your Honor.
246
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:35,458
‐Where's Wambaugh?
‐He's off to Washington.
247
00:14:35,458 --> 00:14:38,211
Your Honor... [sighs]
this is an ex parte motion
248
00:14:38,211 --> 00:14:41,255
seeking a restraining order
to enjoin Stacey Halford
249
00:14:41,255 --> 00:14:43,716
from terminating
her pregnancy.
250
00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:45,885
What did you just say?
251
00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,471
My client entered into
a surrogacy contract
with this woman.
252
00:14:48,471 --> 00:14:51,182
She became
impregnated through
in vitro fertilization‐‐
253
00:14:51,182 --> 00:14:54,310
And now,
she's endeavoring to terminate
the seven‐week pregnancy
254
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:56,687
and we're asking
the court to intervene.
255
00:14:56,687 --> 00:14:59,107
Mmm‐hmm. Well,
there's an obscure case
256
00:14:59,107 --> 00:15:00,691
called Roe v. Wade.
257
00:15:00,691 --> 00:15:02,443
That has nothing
to do with it, Your Honor.
258
00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,654
She may have a right
to an abortion,
259
00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:07,073
but she waived it
when she entered into
the surrogacy contract.
260
00:15:07,073 --> 00:15:08,991
Now there's
no health risk here.
261
00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:12,161
Uh, we're entitled
to an enforcement
of the contract.
262
00:15:12,161 --> 00:15:13,955
Well, if a woman wants
to have an abortion‐‐
263
00:15:13,955 --> 00:15:15,790
"Her body, her right."
264
00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:17,625
Yes, we all know the slogan.
265
00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:20,378
But, this woman leased out
her body for $12,000.
266
00:15:20,378 --> 00:15:22,713
She no longer
has that privilege.
267
00:15:22,713 --> 00:15:25,716
And I would submit‐‐
What about his rights?
268
00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:27,510
He went through in vitro.
269
00:15:27,510 --> 00:15:29,637
He took drugs to boost
his sperm count.
270
00:15:29,637 --> 00:15:33,057
His child is in that womb.
271
00:15:33,057 --> 00:15:34,767
What about his rights?
272
00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,436
I can't force a woman
to carry a baby to term.
273
00:15:37,436 --> 00:15:39,105
Of course you can,
Your Honor.
274
00:15:39,105 --> 00:15:40,398
The law already does that.
275
00:15:40,398 --> 00:15:42,024
A woman in third trimester,
276
00:15:42,024 --> 00:15:43,943
she seeks an abortion,
the court says no...
277
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:47,572
The law mandates
that she carry
the baby to term.
278
00:15:47,572 --> 00:15:50,241
That's a third trimester fetus,
which is viable.
279
00:15:50,241 --> 00:15:52,535
This pregnancy's
only seven weeks.
280
00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:55,621
Yes, Your Honor,
but the point is that
the courts can and do
281
00:15:55,621 --> 00:15:58,249
force women to bear children
in some circumstances.
282
00:15:58,249 --> 00:15:59,625
It's done.
283
00:15:59,625 --> 00:16:02,003
Well, this is
another circumstance
284
00:16:02,003 --> 00:16:04,338
where they and you
could do it.
285
00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:08,634
We're not asking you
to take away
her Roe v. Wade rights.
286
00:16:08,634 --> 00:16:10,887
We maintain,
she already gave it away.
287
00:16:10,887 --> 00:16:15,349
We're simply asking you
to enforce a contract.
288
00:16:15,349 --> 00:16:18,311
I want to hear from the woman
and her attorney
before I do anything.
289
00:16:18,311 --> 00:16:20,062
But what if she
decides to‐‐
290
00:16:20,062 --> 00:16:22,356
I'll give you a one‐day
temporary restraining order.
291
00:16:22,356 --> 00:16:24,275
We'll have
a full hearing tomorrow.
292
00:16:24,275 --> 00:16:26,319
‐[bangs gavel]
‐Adjourned.
293
00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:28,738
What the hell could be next?
294
00:16:28,738 --> 00:16:31,407
Will I get slaughtered?
295
00:16:31,407 --> 00:16:33,701
The law's on your side,
at least for now.
296
00:16:33,701 --> 00:16:37,455
But Scalia, Rehnquist, Thomas,
probably even O'Connor...
297
00:16:37,455 --> 00:16:41,083
are looking for any excuse
to get rid of Miranda.
298
00:16:41,083 --> 00:16:42,835
This is a perfect case
for that.
299
00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:46,714
A drifter kills
an innocent teenager.
300
00:16:46,714 --> 00:16:49,050
It would be
a very popular decision.
301
00:16:49,050 --> 00:16:51,177
Scalia, you have to be
really careful.
302
00:16:51,177 --> 00:16:54,597
He is brilliant.
But he can get very testy.
303
00:16:54,597 --> 00:16:57,350
He's gifted
at trapping lawyers
304
00:16:57,350 --> 00:17:00,061
and he loves to watch a lawyer
squirm a little bit.
305
00:17:00,061 --> 00:17:02,730
But what about
those on my side?
306
00:17:02,730 --> 00:17:04,690
Won't they come
to my defense?
307
00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:08,402
Ginsberg, Stevens are probably
going to be your best allies.
308
00:17:08,402 --> 00:17:10,363
But, tomorrow,
they're not gonna
help you one bit.
309
00:17:10,363 --> 00:17:12,281
You're all alone.
310
00:17:12,281 --> 00:17:14,825
There's only one person
who can fight off Scalia
and that's you.
311
00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:21,666
‐[Douglas inhales oxygen]
‐Are you okay?
312
00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:22,833
[Douglas exhales]
313
00:17:25,378 --> 00:17:27,838
When I'm nervous,
I get winded.
314
00:17:27,838 --> 00:17:30,758
Recently, I was diagnosed
with multiple sclerosis.
315
00:17:30,758 --> 00:17:33,219
Maybe I can play it
for sympathy.
316
00:17:33,219 --> 00:17:34,971
That would not be
a good idea.
317
00:17:34,971 --> 00:17:36,764
Just a thought.
318
00:17:36,764 --> 00:17:38,891
Rehnquist has a bad back.
319
00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:40,810
Sometimes, he just gets up
in the middle of argument
320
00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:42,562
and walks behind the curtain
just to distract you.
321
00:17:42,562 --> 00:17:44,605
Don't let that throw you off.
322
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:48,818
Remember, you must
always call him
"Mr. Chief Justice."
323
00:17:48,818 --> 00:17:52,029
Not "Judge,"
not "Your Honor,"
not "Justice."
324
00:17:52,029 --> 00:17:55,992
You must call him
"Mr. Chief Justice."
325
00:17:55,992 --> 00:17:58,369
Nixon called him Renchberg.
326
00:17:58,369 --> 00:18:00,621
Nixon made mistakes.
327
00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:02,123
Now, Thomas...
328
00:18:02,123 --> 00:18:03,708
Thomas, you don't have to
worry about tomorrow.
329
00:18:03,708 --> 00:18:06,711
He never asks
a single question.
330
00:18:06,711 --> 00:18:08,504
If you want to
win over Thomas,
331
00:18:08,504 --> 00:18:09,797
just win over Scalia.
332
00:18:09,797 --> 00:18:13,217
Thomas always follows Scalia.
333
00:18:13,217 --> 00:18:18,639
Ginsberg, she asks sculpted,
word perfect questions.
334
00:18:18,639 --> 00:18:22,393
But listen carefully.
She's a nitpicker.
335
00:18:22,393 --> 00:18:23,394
One more thing.
336
00:18:24,478 --> 00:18:27,064
Don't lecture them on law.
337
00:18:27,064 --> 00:18:29,692
After all,
they wrote the law.
338
00:18:29,692 --> 00:18:32,486
Where your advantage lies,
is in the facts.
339
00:18:32,486 --> 00:18:35,114
You were at the trial,
they weren't at the trial.
340
00:18:35,114 --> 00:18:36,490
Play up the facts.
341
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:38,826
If you can persuade
the Justices
342
00:18:38,826 --> 00:18:42,371
that you know more about
the facts than they do...
343
00:18:42,371 --> 00:18:45,583
it's gonna help you
on your credibility
regarding the law.
344
00:18:47,668 --> 00:18:49,503
Uh, let me see
if I got it right.
345
00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:51,297
Let's see
if I got it right.
346
00:18:51,297 --> 00:18:54,634
Watch out for Scalia
and Rehnquist.
347
00:18:54,634 --> 00:18:57,261
Play up the facts.
348
00:18:57,261 --> 00:19:00,556
Pay no attention to that man
behind the curtain.
349
00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:04,018
Uh... Oh, don't bother
with Thomas.
350
00:19:04,018 --> 00:19:06,854
And leave out
multiple sclerosis.
351
00:19:06,854 --> 00:19:09,899
Is, uh...
Is there anything else?
352
00:19:09,899 --> 00:19:12,068
Yes, Mr. Wambaugh,
one more thing.
353
00:19:12,068 --> 00:19:13,402
I don't want to
make you nervous,
354
00:19:13,402 --> 00:19:16,322
but this is
a really important case.
355
00:19:16,322 --> 00:19:19,950
Not only for your client,
but for the civil liberties
of all Americans.
356
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:21,619
So the stakes are high.
357
00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:25,039
Constitutional protections,
police procedures...
358
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,166
And accordingly, the pressure
on you is very great.
359
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:29,210
But you're up for it.
360
00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:31,295
One thing, tomorrow,
361
00:19:31,295 --> 00:19:33,214
Douglas...
362
00:19:33,214 --> 00:19:35,007
be yourself.
363
00:19:35,007 --> 00:19:38,177
Don't try to be
something you're not.
364
00:19:38,177 --> 00:19:40,721
You're gonna do
just great.
365
00:19:40,721 --> 00:19:41,889
Zei gezunt!
366
00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:43,307
[chuckling]
367
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,854
We're locking up
in 20 minutes.
368
00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:50,606
I won't be here that long.
369
00:20:01,534 --> 00:20:03,327
Give me a second,
Kimberly.
370
00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:18,134
John.
371
00:20:18,134 --> 00:20:20,678
[exhales] Yeah.
372
00:20:20,678 --> 00:20:22,638
Kind of want to
get the feel of the place.
373
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:26,726
Tomorrow, it all happens.
374
00:20:26,726 --> 00:20:29,478
I hope
I don't embarrass myself.
375
00:20:29,478 --> 00:20:34,316
Doug, you've earned the right
to be in this court.
376
00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:37,403
You made that appeal.
You deserve to be here.
377
00:20:37,403 --> 00:20:39,280
Thank you.
378
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,741
You're gonna be great.
379
00:20:41,741 --> 00:20:43,993
Make no mistake,
I plan to kick your ass,
380
00:20:43,993 --> 00:20:46,203
but I'll be cheering
for you too.
381
00:20:47,037 --> 00:20:48,414
And me for you.
382
00:20:51,542 --> 00:20:53,544
‐[Littleton] We are here.
‐[Douglas] Mmm‐hmm.
383
00:20:53,544 --> 00:20:55,045
[Littleton]
We are actually here.
384
00:21:05,222 --> 00:21:08,267
[indistinct chatter]
385
00:21:19,028 --> 00:21:21,030
[banging gavel]
386
00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:24,116
The Honorable,
the Chief Justice
and Associate Justices
387
00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:26,869
of the Supreme Court
of the United States.
388
00:21:27,912 --> 00:21:30,456
Oyez! Oyez! Oyez!
389
00:21:30,456 --> 00:21:32,333
All persons
having business before
390
00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:34,835
the Honorable Supreme Court
of the United States,
391
00:21:34,835 --> 00:21:37,338
are admonished to draw near
and give their attention,
392
00:21:37,338 --> 00:21:39,298
for the Court
is now sitting.
393
00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:43,302
God save the United States
and this Honorable Court!
394
00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:44,303
[bangs gavel]
395
00:22:00,444 --> 00:22:03,405
We will hear arguments...
396
00:22:03,405 --> 00:22:07,326
in People of Wisconsin
vs. Brian Latham.
397
00:22:07,326 --> 00:22:09,328
Mr. Wambaugh,
you may proceed.
398
00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:23,968
Mr. Chief Justice,
may it please the Court.
399
00:22:23,968 --> 00:22:28,305
I waited 51 years
to get on this stage.
400
00:22:28,305 --> 00:22:30,182
In that case,
we'll give you 30 minutes.
401
00:22:32,101 --> 00:22:34,061
I represent Brian Latham
402
00:22:34,061 --> 00:22:36,647
on the appeal of his
first degree
murder conviction...
403
00:22:36,647 --> 00:22:40,192
which conviction resulted
from a statement obtained
404
00:22:40,192 --> 00:22:43,237
by unconstitutional means.
405
00:22:43,237 --> 00:22:45,823
In Minnick vs. Mississippi,
406
00:22:45,823 --> 00:22:47,491
this court held...
407
00:22:47,491 --> 00:22:50,536
when counsel is requested
by the accused,
408
00:22:50,536 --> 00:22:53,664
all interrogation
must cease,
409
00:22:53,664 --> 00:22:58,085
and police may not reinitiate
any interrogation later
410
00:22:58,085 --> 00:23:00,713
after the lawyer is gone.
411
00:23:00,713 --> 00:23:02,965
And that's what happened here.
412
00:23:03,966 --> 00:23:06,093
After I was gone,
413
00:23:06,093 --> 00:23:09,847
Deputy Lacos asked my client
to tell him
where the body was.
414
00:23:09,847 --> 00:23:13,475
It was an unconstitutional
interrogation.
415
00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:16,353
Are you saying that
after the accused says
he wants his lawyer,
416
00:23:16,353 --> 00:23:18,772
the police can't even
talk to him anymore?
417
00:23:18,772 --> 00:23:20,482
The Deputy
can't even say, uh,
418
00:23:20,482 --> 00:23:23,193
"Hey, how's the weather"
unless the attorney is present?
419
00:23:23,193 --> 00:23:25,905
What I'm saying,
Justice Scalia...
420
00:23:25,905 --> 00:23:29,658
is that he can't
reinitiate an interrogation.
421
00:23:29,658 --> 00:23:31,911
"How is the weather?"
is not an interrogation...
422
00:23:31,911 --> 00:23:33,746
except maybe in New England.
423
00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:38,000
"Tell me where the body is."
That's an interrogation.
424
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,377
Suppose I were arrested.
425
00:23:40,377 --> 00:23:42,379
I asked for my lawyer,
426
00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:46,091
then the police
reinitiate an interrogation.
427
00:23:46,091 --> 00:23:49,386
As a matter of law,
I would have no capacity
428
00:23:49,386 --> 00:23:51,263
for a voluntary statement?
429
00:23:52,264 --> 00:23:54,433
Under Minnick, no.
430
00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:57,227
It would be impossible
for the Chief Justice
of the Supreme Court
431
00:23:57,227 --> 00:23:59,521
to knowingly waive his right
to a lawyer,
432
00:23:59,521 --> 00:24:02,024
if the police initiated
the encounter?
433
00:24:02,024 --> 00:24:04,485
Yes, uh, that's the law.
434
00:24:04,485 --> 00:24:07,529
Well, that seems absurd,
Mr. Wambaugh.
435
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:09,490
Maybe Minnick is bad law.
436
00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:12,451
Oh, it's Supreme Court
precedent.
437
00:24:12,451 --> 00:24:14,370
I would submit,
Mr. Renchberg...
438
00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:17,331
Uh‐‐ No, I mean,
Mr. Rehnquist...
439
00:24:17,331 --> 00:24:19,583
Uh, Mr. Chief Justice...
440
00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:22,002
Sometimes,
I mispronounce names
441
00:24:22,002 --> 00:24:24,213
on account of my
multiple sclerosis.
442
00:24:28,384 --> 00:24:30,386
Quiet down, everybody.
Quiet.
443
00:24:30,386 --> 00:24:33,389
I want it on the record
that I'm making
no backdoor negotiations.
444
00:24:33,389 --> 00:24:35,099
It'll be on the record.
445
00:24:35,099 --> 00:24:38,018
I just want to do this in here,
to protect their privacy.
446
00:24:38,018 --> 00:24:39,853
She has a constitutional
right...
447
00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:42,356
There is no such expressed
right in the Constitution.
448
00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:44,274
...which entitles her
to an abortion
without his consent.
449
00:24:44,274 --> 00:24:45,818
‐[Franklin]
Why don't you read it?
‐[Henry] Quiet.
450
00:24:45,818 --> 00:24:48,278
How can you even entertain
such a motion?
451
00:24:48,278 --> 00:24:50,364
Because I'm a funny guy.
452
00:24:50,364 --> 00:24:52,825
Fathers can't prevent
abortions.
453
00:24:52,825 --> 00:24:55,244
The Supreme Court
has said so.
454
00:24:55,244 --> 00:24:58,872
The Supreme Court also says
that a constitutional right
can be waived.
455
00:24:58,872 --> 00:25:01,250
The Latham case,
going on this very minute‐‐
456
00:25:01,250 --> 00:25:02,918
The issue being,
whether the defendant
457
00:25:02,918 --> 00:25:05,462
waived his
constitutional right
to counsel.
458
00:25:05,462 --> 00:25:07,798
If he waived it,
he loses it.
459
00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:09,842
The very same principle
is at work here.
460
00:25:09,842 --> 00:25:11,927
She made no such waiver!
461
00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:13,595
She promised to carry
that baby to term.
462
00:25:13,595 --> 00:25:15,806
So what?
You want specific performance?
463
00:25:15,806 --> 00:25:17,307
Come on, did you go
to law school or‐‐
464
00:25:17,307 --> 00:25:18,684
I'll choose my own
legal remedies.
465
00:25:18,684 --> 00:25:20,019
‐Thank you very much.
‐Quiet!
466
00:25:20,019 --> 00:25:22,938
‐Why are you doing this?
‐I said "quiet."
467
00:25:22,938 --> 00:25:24,648
Why are you?
468
00:25:24,648 --> 00:25:27,317
All right, first...
469
00:25:27,317 --> 00:25:30,237
is there any dispute
that it's his child?
470
00:25:31,238 --> 00:25:33,115
No.
471
00:25:33,115 --> 00:25:37,036
And, Carter, are you sure
you want to challenge her
on this?
472
00:25:37,036 --> 00:25:40,497
‐I'm sure.
‐[scoffs] This is ridiculous.
473
00:25:40,497 --> 00:25:45,419
Lady, it usually takes me
a full five minutes
to dislike somebody.
474
00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:46,795
I'm ahead of schedule.
475
00:25:48,338 --> 00:25:50,257
All right, I'm going
to review the law.
476
00:25:50,257 --> 00:25:52,301
The law is very clear.
477
00:25:52,301 --> 00:25:54,011
The Constitution provides‐‐
478
00:25:54,011 --> 00:25:57,264
The Constitution is silent
on this matter.
479
00:25:57,264 --> 00:26:00,309
The right to an abortion
is only as clear
480
00:26:00,309 --> 00:26:03,353
as the nine Justices
sitting on the Supreme Court.
481
00:26:03,353 --> 00:26:05,606
Do you know who's sitting
up there today?
482
00:26:07,524 --> 00:26:10,694
Didn't you meet with
your client, Mr. Wambaugh?
483
00:26:10,694 --> 00:26:12,279
Yes, I did.
484
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:14,364
And didn't you
appraise him of the risks
485
00:26:14,364 --> 00:26:15,908
of speaking with police?
486
00:26:15,908 --> 00:26:17,493
Of course.
487
00:26:17,493 --> 00:26:19,745
In fact, I suspect,
as a good lawyer would
488
00:26:19,745 --> 00:26:22,122
you gave him a rather
explicit warning.
489
00:26:22,122 --> 00:26:25,834
And that you caused your client
to understand his rights.
490
00:26:25,834 --> 00:26:27,544
So why shouldn't we find
his statement here
491
00:26:27,544 --> 00:26:30,130
to be a voluntary waiver
of his right to counsel?
492
00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:31,715
[Douglas]
Because he was coerced.
493
00:26:31,715 --> 00:26:33,634
Deputy Lacos knew my...
494
00:26:33,634 --> 00:26:35,803
my client
was a devout Catholic.
495
00:26:35,803 --> 00:26:38,388
And he preyed upon my client's
Christian sympathies,
496
00:26:38,388 --> 00:26:40,349
to get information.
497
00:26:40,349 --> 00:26:43,435
Is it your position,
Mr. Wambaugh,
498
00:26:43,435 --> 00:26:47,815
that the incorporation
of religion into
a line of questioning,
499
00:26:47,815 --> 00:26:52,653
would mean that any response
per se, as a matter of law
500
00:26:52,653 --> 00:26:55,989
could not be deemed
to be voluntary?
501
00:26:55,989 --> 00:27:00,452
Or is it your position,
that in this
particular encounter,
502
00:27:00,452 --> 00:27:04,581
given the religious
hyper‐sensitivity
of the accused,
503
00:27:04,581 --> 00:27:06,875
that as a matter of fact,
504
00:27:06,875 --> 00:27:08,961
Mr. Latham's response
505
00:27:08,961 --> 00:27:11,964
could not be regarded
as voluntary?
506
00:27:11,964 --> 00:27:15,175
I would ask you
to repeat the question
but my time would be up.
507
00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:19,513
Uh... huh...
508
00:27:19,513 --> 00:27:21,723
Uh... I'm a character.
[chuckles softly]
509
00:27:21,723 --> 00:27:25,310
I, uh, would submit that
in this particular incident...
510
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:29,690
Mr. Latham's response
was not voluntary.
511
00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:31,942
Minnick says,
as a matter of law,
512
00:27:31,942 --> 00:27:35,237
the statement is
automatically involuntary
513
00:27:35,237 --> 00:27:38,115
when the police reinitiate
the encounter.
514
00:27:38,115 --> 00:27:41,410
Well, how would the police
ever get a confession?
515
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:44,746
Almost every suspect
immediately asks for a lawyer.
516
00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:47,291
If he's not allowed
to change his mind,
517
00:27:47,291 --> 00:27:51,336
if the police aren't even
allowed to ask him
if he wants to change his mind,
518
00:27:51,336 --> 00:27:53,589
how are we to obtain
valid admissions?
519
00:27:53,589 --> 00:27:57,509
Well, I'm concerned today
about the invalid ones.
520
00:27:57,509 --> 00:28:01,179
Why shouldn't we apply
an objective test
for each case?
521
00:28:01,179 --> 00:28:03,056
If the waiver is voluntary,
let it in,
522
00:28:03,056 --> 00:28:05,893
if it feels coerced,
keep it out.
523
00:28:05,893 --> 00:28:08,770
Why apply this
absolute restriction?
524
00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:11,273
Because we need
the absolutes.
525
00:28:11,273 --> 00:28:14,943
We need a prophylactic
that gives a 100% assurance
526
00:28:14,943 --> 00:28:17,112
against coerced confessions.
527
00:28:17,112 --> 00:28:20,032
If you give the police
any margin,
they'll abuse it.
528
00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:22,075
That is a pretty
sweeping indictment.
529
00:28:22,075 --> 00:28:26,330
Well, Your Honor,
I don't mean to suggest
policemen are bad people.
530
00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:29,917
I personally know
the arresting officers
in this case...
531
00:28:29,917 --> 00:28:32,502
Officers Maxine Stewart
and Kenny Lacos,
532
00:28:32,502 --> 00:28:35,047
people I admire.
533
00:28:35,047 --> 00:28:39,968
But they're caught up
in a system and a society
that is gripped with fear.
534
00:28:39,968 --> 00:28:41,762
And when afraid enough...
535
00:28:41,762 --> 00:28:45,933
scared people become willing
to suspend civil rights.
536
00:28:45,933 --> 00:28:48,143
It's going on all over
this country.
537
00:28:48,143 --> 00:28:49,978
It went on at his trial.
538
00:28:49,978 --> 00:28:51,980
When Judge Bone
stood up and said,
539
00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:54,483
"I don't give a damn
what the Supreme Court says,
540
00:28:54,483 --> 00:28:56,568
the hell with his right
to counsel."
541
00:28:56,568 --> 00:28:58,028
Well, that's what he said.
542
00:28:58,028 --> 00:28:59,571
And he said,
if the Supreme Court
543
00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:01,156
has a problem with that,
544
00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:03,867
they can come and get him.
545
00:29:03,867 --> 00:29:07,412
And the people of Rome,
enlightened people,
good people...
546
00:29:07,412 --> 00:29:10,040
they stood on their feet
and cheered Judge Bone
when he said,
547
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,833
"To hell
with the Constitution."
548
00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:13,835
They cheered.
549
00:29:13,835 --> 00:29:16,296
That's what's going on
in America today.
550
00:29:16,296 --> 00:29:18,173
People are afraid.
551
00:29:18,173 --> 00:29:19,800
There's pressure
on the police
552
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,344
to do everything
to catch the bad guys.
553
00:29:22,344 --> 00:29:25,055
And they are doing
everything.
554
00:29:25,055 --> 00:29:28,392
Including crossing
constitutional barriers.
555
00:29:28,392 --> 00:29:31,395
That's why we need
the Supreme Court.
556
00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:34,022
When the police go too far,
557
00:29:34,022 --> 00:29:36,733
that's where you come in.
558
00:29:36,733 --> 00:29:38,860
Well, they went too far
in this case.
559
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:42,531
They denied Brian Latham
his constitutional rights.
560
00:29:42,531 --> 00:29:44,866
So this is where
you come in.
561
00:29:54,751 --> 00:29:56,336
‐[knocking]
‐Hi.
562
00:29:56,336 --> 00:29:57,337
Hi.
563
00:30:04,886 --> 00:30:08,807
I've been thinking about
how all of this
is none of my business.
564
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:12,561
And I know that I should
leave you alone.
565
00:30:12,561 --> 00:30:16,648
But, then it occurred to me
that maybe the reason
that you're doing this...
566
00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:18,775
is because you're so alone.
567
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,948
Surrogacy is
an extreme step, Carter.
568
00:30:26,408 --> 00:30:28,076
Going to court to enforce it‐‐
569
00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:29,953
I'm not gonna lie to you,
I'm worried about you.
570
00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:31,913
[inhales]
What is so crazy?
571
00:30:31,913 --> 00:30:34,791
That I would like
to have a child?
572
00:30:34,791 --> 00:30:37,544
That I want to
share in the experience
of parenting like...
573
00:30:38,754 --> 00:30:40,130
everybody?
574
00:30:44,009 --> 00:30:45,927
I know I could adopt,
maybe I will someday.
575
00:30:45,927 --> 00:30:49,097
But I wanted my own
flesh and blood too,
you know?
576
00:30:49,097 --> 00:30:51,558
‐Carry on the Pike name.
‐Oh!
577
00:30:51,558 --> 00:30:54,728
[scoffs] I'm 38, Jill.
578
00:30:54,728 --> 00:30:58,148
I can cling to the idea that
maybe I'll meet somebody...
579
00:30:58,148 --> 00:31:00,984
have children together...
580
00:31:00,984 --> 00:31:05,697
But I also have to
recognize the reality,
I'm 38!
581
00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:09,034
And I've never been
in a relationship
with anybody. Never.
582
00:31:09,034 --> 00:31:11,787
I didn't know that.
583
00:31:11,787 --> 00:31:14,247
Yeah, well,
it's not something I...
584
00:31:19,336 --> 00:31:21,463
Look, I'm not denying
how ridiculous this is,
585
00:31:21,463 --> 00:31:23,215
doing what I'm doing but‐‐
586
00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:25,008
[sighs]
What's that old saying,
587
00:31:25,008 --> 00:31:27,260
"behind every desperate act,
you'll find a desperate man."
588
00:31:28,637 --> 00:31:32,015
You're not
a desperate man, Carter.
589
00:31:32,015 --> 00:31:34,935
I have nobody
in my life to love, Jill.
590
00:31:34,935 --> 00:31:37,104
What does that make me
if not desperate?
591
00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:43,944
This was no interrogation.
592
00:31:43,944 --> 00:31:46,530
Deputy Lacos
volunteered to leave.
593
00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:48,824
Brian Latham,
at least implicitly,
594
00:31:48,824 --> 00:31:50,408
consented
to the conversation.
595
00:31:50,408 --> 00:31:53,286
And that's what this was,
a conversation.
596
00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:55,247
There was no accusation.
597
00:31:55,247 --> 00:31:57,707
No attempt to elicit
incriminating evidence.
598
00:31:57,707 --> 00:31:59,709
Simply, a question.
599
00:31:59,709 --> 00:32:03,421
"Do you know
where we might find
Susan Engrams?"
600
00:32:03,421 --> 00:32:05,549
To categorize that
as an interrogation,
601
00:32:05,549 --> 00:32:08,135
to say it rises
to the level of coercion,
602
00:32:08,135 --> 00:32:10,345
is completely
contrary to fact.
603
00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,140
You're maintaining
that Minnick doesn't apply,
604
00:32:13,140 --> 00:32:14,933
because this
isn't an interrogation?
605
00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:16,726
That's correct, Your Honor.
606
00:32:16,726 --> 00:32:21,064
Counsel, he asks the suspect
to point him to the body.
607
00:32:21,064 --> 00:32:22,732
Suspect tells him.
608
00:32:22,732 --> 00:32:24,609
That's a pretty
incriminating answer.
609
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:27,487
And exactly the kind of answer
that the deputy was looking for.
610
00:32:27,487 --> 00:32:31,825
I maintain that Deputy Lacos'
intent was not to elicit
incriminating evidence‐‐
611
00:32:31,825 --> 00:32:33,076
It doesn't matter.
612
00:32:33,076 --> 00:32:35,078
If the police
ask a question
613
00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:38,456
that can reasonably elicit
an incriminating answer...
614
00:32:38,456 --> 00:32:40,292
it's an interrogation.
615
00:32:40,292 --> 00:32:42,419
You're familiar with
Rhode Island vs. Innis?
616
00:32:42,419 --> 00:32:44,212
Yes, I am.
617
00:32:44,212 --> 00:32:46,423
Then how do you
get around Minnick?
618
00:32:46,423 --> 00:32:49,384
The law says that
you cannot reinterrogate
619
00:32:49,384 --> 00:32:51,887
after the accused
makes a request for counsel.
620
00:32:51,887 --> 00:32:56,099
Which is exactly
what Deputy Lacos did.
621
00:32:56,099 --> 00:32:58,435
How do you get around that?
622
00:32:58,435 --> 00:33:02,063
Are you suggesting
Minnick doesn't apply?
623
00:33:02,063 --> 00:33:04,858
Or are you advocating
that we overturn Minnick?
624
00:33:08,111 --> 00:33:13,158
I am suggesting to this court
that Minnick be overturned.
625
00:33:13,158 --> 00:33:14,743
[murmuring]
626
00:33:14,743 --> 00:33:17,037
This court erred
in Minnick vs. Mississippi.
627
00:33:21,124 --> 00:33:24,836
Well... [sighs]
isn't this exciting?
628
00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:28,590
Mr. Chief Justice,
you yourself
flagged the problem.
629
00:33:28,590 --> 00:33:31,760
It's become impossible
for the police
to get a confession.
630
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,388
Now, the point of Miranda
and all these
prophylactic protections
631
00:33:35,388 --> 00:33:38,934
is to guard against
compulsory self‐incrimination.
632
00:33:38,934 --> 00:33:41,978
We want defendants
to know their legal rights.
633
00:33:41,978 --> 00:33:47,025
We want their statements to be
intentional and voluntary.
634
00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:51,446
Minnick has distorted
this protection
to a ridiculous extreme.
635
00:33:51,446 --> 00:33:53,949
It establishes
a systematic formula
636
00:33:53,949 --> 00:33:56,243
that can result
in a complete travesty‐‐
637
00:33:56,243 --> 00:33:59,079
Not only of justice,
but of common sense.
638
00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:02,499
To hold, as a matter of law,
639
00:34:02,499 --> 00:34:06,544
a suspect can't change his mind
about having counsel
in the room?
640
00:34:06,544 --> 00:34:10,548
To say he automatically
lacks capacity to make
voluntary statements.
641
00:34:10,548 --> 00:34:13,677
Nothing in the Constitution
supports this type of premise.
642
00:34:13,677 --> 00:34:15,220
Nothing!
643
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:18,056
These are court
articulated protections
644
00:34:18,056 --> 00:34:21,393
that have expanded into
constitutional fairyland.
645
00:34:21,393 --> 00:34:25,272
If you want to stretch
a ruling on Minnick to its
most illogical extreme,
646
00:34:25,272 --> 00:34:28,858
you need look no further
than this case.
647
00:34:28,858 --> 00:34:31,903
Brian Latham
was a sane, competent man
648
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:34,114
who knew his legal rights.
649
00:34:34,114 --> 00:34:36,533
He had been given Miranda.
650
00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:39,744
He had been warned
by his lawyer.
651
00:34:39,744 --> 00:34:41,454
Take a look at those
trial transcripts...
652
00:34:41,454 --> 00:34:44,582
this man's testimony
was precise.
653
00:34:44,582 --> 00:34:47,961
He clearly knew
what words to choose.
654
00:34:47,961 --> 00:34:51,423
His statement to Kenny Lacos
was knowing,
655
00:34:51,423 --> 00:34:54,509
intentional and voluntary.
656
00:34:54,509 --> 00:34:56,845
And we're applying
an automatic formula
657
00:34:56,845 --> 00:35:00,890
to redefine it as involuntary
and throw it out.
658
00:35:00,890 --> 00:35:04,603
Well, if the Minnick test
results in such an atrocious
rape of the simple truth,
659
00:35:04,603 --> 00:35:07,772
then Minnick
should be reversed.
660
00:35:07,772 --> 00:35:11,276
Suppose the suspect is
not so savvy as Mr. Latham?
661
00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:14,070
Maybe he's more
easily tricked.
662
00:35:14,070 --> 00:35:18,325
How do we prevent
the police from
exploiting that situation?
663
00:35:18,325 --> 00:35:21,661
Maybe the best way is simply
to draw an absolute.
664
00:35:21,661 --> 00:35:24,372
If he asks for a lawyer,
stay away.
665
00:35:25,373 --> 00:35:27,917
That's simple, Counsel.
666
00:35:27,917 --> 00:35:33,214
Why can't the police
just stay away
until the lawyer gets there?
667
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:36,843
We can err too much
on trusting the police,
I guess...
668
00:35:36,843 --> 00:35:38,386
or in trusting them
too little.
669
00:35:39,763 --> 00:35:42,599
Which error,
in your opinion,
670
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,810
would be more consistent
with our Constitution?
671
00:35:51,107 --> 00:35:54,069
I don't think you need to
make either error.
672
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:57,280
I think your rulings
should trust law and order.
673
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,283
And trust that the underlying
intent of the Constitution
674
00:36:00,283 --> 00:36:02,869
is to ensure a free nation.
675
00:36:02,869 --> 00:36:05,413
Crime is making us all
less free.
676
00:36:05,413 --> 00:36:08,792
Now, the Constitution
is certainly there
to protect the guilty
677
00:36:08,792 --> 00:36:11,461
as well as the innocent,
I don't dispute that.
678
00:36:11,461 --> 00:36:15,882
But that objective of
the Constitution is not
to set the guilty free.
679
00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:21,096
The people of this country
need to know that.
680
00:36:21,096 --> 00:36:23,848
They need to hear that
from this court, today.
681
00:36:38,363 --> 00:36:41,116
[crowd chattering loudly]
682
00:36:41,116 --> 00:36:43,618
‐[shutter clicks]
‐[man screams] Sinner!
683
00:36:44,494 --> 00:36:45,745
Keep back!
684
00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:49,833
[man shouts] Baby killer!
685
00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:52,669
‐Let her pass.
‐It's murder!
You're a murderer!
686
00:36:52,669 --> 00:36:54,587
‐Please step back, sir.
‐I will not get back.
687
00:36:54,587 --> 00:36:55,922
‐Take your hands off me!
‐Hey!
688
00:36:55,922 --> 00:36:57,173
‐Hey!
‐[crowd gasps]
689
00:36:57,173 --> 00:36:58,883
What's your name?
690
00:36:58,883 --> 00:37:00,260
My name is Michael Duffy.
691
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:03,054
‐[crowd gasps]
‐[man laughs]
692
00:37:03,054 --> 00:37:04,931
Never hit me, Mr. Duffy.
693
00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:10,645
[man] Get back to work.
Come on, give 'em some room.
694
00:37:10,645 --> 00:37:13,231
[Franklin] She contracted away
her right to an abortion.
695
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:15,191
She gave it away
when she entered into
the surrogacy agreement.
696
00:37:15,191 --> 00:37:17,569
Your Honor, that is
completely without merit.
697
00:37:17,569 --> 00:37:19,696
Husbands have tried
to sue mothers
698
00:37:19,696 --> 00:37:22,031
for emotional distress
after abortions,
699
00:37:22,031 --> 00:37:23,908
but the courts
threw out those cases.
700
00:37:23,908 --> 00:37:25,910
Why?
Because there is no precedent.
701
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:27,912
Those were
lower court decisions
that were ruled on...
702
00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:29,038
‐Excuse me, I would
like to finish my‐‐
‐Will you let me finish?
703
00:37:29,038 --> 00:37:30,331
‐Hey!
‐I was the‐‐
704
00:37:31,249 --> 00:37:32,751
I'll finish.
705
00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:35,128
Excuse me, Your Honor.
706
00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:41,885
‐Could I be heard?
‐It would be refreshing.
707
00:37:41,885 --> 00:37:44,137
Let's have the lawyers
take their seats.
708
00:37:53,563 --> 00:37:55,648
I'm not gonna get into
the abortion debate.
709
00:37:55,648 --> 00:37:57,525
Whether the fetus
is a life or not,
710
00:37:57,525 --> 00:38:00,904
I know that
it's a legal question
for the lawyers.
711
00:38:00,904 --> 00:38:03,114
I also know that
it's a woman's...
712
00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:05,909
personal choice
as to whether...
713
00:38:05,909 --> 00:38:08,411
she considers it
a life or not.
714
00:38:12,791 --> 00:38:14,375
I would just like to say...
715
00:38:16,002 --> 00:38:18,004
as the father...
716
00:38:18,004 --> 00:38:20,340
it's my personal belief
that it is a life,
717
00:38:20,340 --> 00:38:22,425
that it's my child.
718
00:38:22,425 --> 00:38:25,970
And that is why I feel
I must try to save it.
719
00:38:27,972 --> 00:38:29,015
Uh... [sighs]
720
00:38:31,684 --> 00:38:33,561
[smacks lips] I also know,
721
00:38:33,561 --> 00:38:36,648
according to
the Supreme Court, I...
722
00:38:36,648 --> 00:38:39,025
as the father,
have no rights here.
723
00:38:39,025 --> 00:38:41,110
Legally, I'm irrelevant.
724
00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:42,695
And I think that's wrong.
725
00:38:44,322 --> 00:38:47,116
Without completely
vitiating pro‐choice,
726
00:38:47,116 --> 00:38:49,160
we should find some way to give
the father some rights.
727
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,622
After all, it's... my child!
728
00:38:54,415 --> 00:38:56,960
Before the Supreme Court
can address this question,
729
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,378
the case has to get there.
730
00:38:58,378 --> 00:38:59,838
And in order
for that to happen,
731
00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:02,215
we need some brave
trial court judge,
732
00:39:02,215 --> 00:39:04,050
who's willing
to make a ruling
733
00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:08,680
that putative fathers
do count in this decision.
734
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,640
And I have listened
to your rulings for years
735
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,976
and I don't know
any judge
736
00:39:12,976 --> 00:39:14,978
who has more courage
than you.
737
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:22,735
I guess I'm asking...
738
00:39:24,195 --> 00:39:26,197
for me and...
739
00:39:27,657 --> 00:39:28,950
my child.
740
00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:34,122
I'm asking you to be
the most brave
you've ever been.
741
00:39:59,772 --> 00:40:01,399
I need five minutes.
742
00:40:19,959 --> 00:40:22,795
Spent too much time
on Minnick.
743
00:40:22,795 --> 00:40:25,381
Should've given more to Breyer,
played up the coercion.
744
00:40:25,381 --> 00:40:27,717
You got in Breyer.
745
00:40:27,717 --> 00:40:30,511
‐How soon before they rule?
‐There's no telling.
746
00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:32,305
Could be quick,
could take months.
747
00:40:35,183 --> 00:40:37,810
I can't believe I said it‐‐
Renchberg!
748
00:40:37,810 --> 00:40:40,104
[chuckles]
749
00:40:40,104 --> 00:40:42,357
Mr. Wambaugh,
you were fantastic.
750
00:40:43,483 --> 00:40:45,526
I was?
751
00:40:45,526 --> 00:40:47,403
You stood up
in the Supreme Court
752
00:40:47,403 --> 00:40:50,657
and were equal
to nine judges.
753
00:40:50,657 --> 00:40:52,450
I couldn't believe
how good you were.
754
00:40:54,452 --> 00:40:56,454
I wish Myriam
could've seen it.
755
00:40:58,456 --> 00:41:00,792
I wish Brian Latham
could've seen it.
756
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:05,755
I saw it.
757
00:41:05,755 --> 00:41:08,257
I was very proud of you.
758
00:41:08,257 --> 00:41:10,802
Watching you fight
the way you did...
759
00:41:10,802 --> 00:41:12,595
you made all lawyers proud.
760
00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:18,017
Thank you, Kimberly.
761
00:41:22,897 --> 00:41:26,484
And you did too.
Very much.
762
00:41:28,361 --> 00:41:29,529
Thanks.
763
00:41:35,118 --> 00:41:36,327
[bailiff] Be seated.
764
00:41:49,340 --> 00:41:51,509
On pregnancy matters,
765
00:41:51,509 --> 00:41:56,305
Roe vs. Wade
gives all the rights
to the mother.
766
00:41:56,305 --> 00:42:00,351
The father has none
before viability.
767
00:42:00,351 --> 00:42:03,229
The waiver argument
was a novel one, Mr. Dell,
768
00:42:03,229 --> 00:42:06,774
but to enforce
a contract claim,
769
00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:10,903
to prevent a woman
from terminating
the pregnancy,
770
00:42:10,903 --> 00:42:14,240
that would be against
public policy.
771
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,702
The only way for me to grant
Carter Pike's request,
772
00:42:17,702 --> 00:42:21,831
would be to flat‐out ignore
the Supreme Court‐‐
773
00:42:21,831 --> 00:42:23,541
Which I've done.
774
00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:27,920
One thing about being old,
it can make you brave.
775
00:42:29,505 --> 00:42:31,591
But I'm not
that brave, Carter.
776
00:42:33,342 --> 00:42:38,931
This case involves a baby,
two parents...
777
00:42:38,931 --> 00:42:44,270
and a controversy
that no judge
can ever truly solve.
778
00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:49,358
The issue of abortion
is a deeply personal one.
779
00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:52,570
I am neither wise
nor brave enough
780
00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:55,239
to be Solomon.
781
00:42:58,034 --> 00:43:01,871
Plaintiff's petition denied.
782
00:43:01,871 --> 00:43:04,957
Ms. Halford is free
to terminate the pregnancy.
783
00:43:08,419 --> 00:43:10,379
‐Adjourned.
‐[bangs gavel]
784
00:43:14,634 --> 00:43:17,637
[crowd murmuring]
785
00:43:21,724 --> 00:43:23,101
They came at me.
786
00:43:23,101 --> 00:43:25,019
[chuckles] Especially Scalia.
787
00:43:25,019 --> 00:43:28,689
But I fought them, Brian.
I fought them with all I had.
788
00:43:28,689 --> 00:43:30,942
‐When will they rule?
‐Well, there's no telling.
789
00:43:30,942 --> 00:43:35,029
But it would be nice
if those regular appointees
could retire first.
790
00:43:35,029 --> 00:43:37,782
But the law
is still on our side.
791
00:43:37,782 --> 00:43:39,784
Minnick is the key.
792
00:43:39,784 --> 00:43:41,410
Now, I ordered a transcript,
793
00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:43,704
so you'll be able
to read every word.
794
00:43:43,704 --> 00:43:46,332
Douglas Wambaugh,
the Supreme Court.
795
00:43:46,332 --> 00:43:49,085
‐[chuckles]
‐I had a moment.
796
00:43:51,254 --> 00:43:53,172
Kimberly, what are you
doing here?
797
00:43:53,172 --> 00:43:54,841
This came in.
798
00:44:01,389 --> 00:44:02,390
What?
799
00:44:04,642 --> 00:44:06,644
How could they rule so fast?
800
00:44:08,563 --> 00:44:10,565
‐[knocks on glass]
‐What?
801
00:44:16,571 --> 00:44:18,322
They reversed Minnick.
802
00:44:18,322 --> 00:44:21,284
‐Our appeal was denied.
‐[sighs]
803
00:44:25,371 --> 00:44:26,747
What does...
what does it mean?
804
00:44:28,624 --> 00:44:29,959
[loudly] What does it mean?
805
00:44:31,961 --> 00:44:34,046
It's over. We've lost.
806
00:44:35,923 --> 00:44:38,176
You said the law
was with us.
807
00:44:38,176 --> 00:44:39,969
You said they follow the law!
808
00:44:41,387 --> 00:44:43,097
I don't know what to say.
809
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,309
But the law just changed.
810
00:44:51,439 --> 00:44:52,857
[door creaking]
811
00:45:41,155 --> 00:45:43,157
[theme music playing]
812
00:46:02,093 --> 00:46:04,095
[theme music ends]
58460
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