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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:22,206 --> 00:00:24,642 [Drums beating] 2 00:00:52,570 --> 00:00:55,106 [Drumming continues] 3 00:00:55,106 --> 00:00:58,209 You just want to push up the people 4 00:00:58,209 --> 00:01:01,145 I've moved here to get away from. 5 00:01:01,145 --> 00:01:04,616 I haven't spoken to not one single one of them 6 00:01:04,616 --> 00:01:05,950 Since I left there. 7 00:01:05,950 --> 00:01:10,487 And I don't want any of them on my film! 8 00:01:10,487 --> 00:01:11,823 You don't understand. 9 00:01:11,823 --> 00:01:13,658 I do understand. 10 00:01:13,658 --> 00:01:14,859 Yeah. 11 00:01:14,859 --> 00:01:17,094 What the fuck is wrong with that? 12 00:01:17,094 --> 00:01:19,230 Are you really gonna hit me with the... 13 00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:20,665 I fucking well am! 14 00:01:20,665 --> 00:01:23,768 I'm gonna fucking put you in hospital! 15 00:01:23,768 --> 00:01:25,569 Why? Oh, my God! 16 00:01:25,569 --> 00:01:29,006 [Up-tempo rock music plays] 17 00:01:29,006 --> 00:01:31,408 Yes! 18 00:01:31,408 --> 00:01:33,845 [Dog barking] 19 00:01:39,984 --> 00:01:44,155 Ginger Baker just hit me in the fucking nose. 20 00:01:49,093 --> 00:01:50,895 [Music ends] 21 00:01:52,964 --> 00:01:55,800 This film is about Ginger Baker, 22 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,270 A man who stands for something in life 23 00:01:59,270 --> 00:02:02,940 That probably most of you do not. 24 00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:04,909 Love and appreciate, 25 00:02:04,909 --> 00:02:11,615 No matter how awkward this character may appear to you. 26 00:02:11,615 --> 00:02:13,284 God bless him. 27 00:02:13,284 --> 00:02:14,786 May the road rise. 28 00:02:14,786 --> 00:02:17,554 He helped me rise my road. 29 00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:18,890 Love you, Ginger. 30 00:02:18,890 --> 00:02:20,291 Johnny Rotten! 31 00:02:20,291 --> 00:02:21,659 I'm your man. 32 00:02:21,659 --> 00:02:24,361 [Drum solo] 33 00:02:36,140 --> 00:02:38,442 Ginger Baker is a motherfucker. That's it. 34 00:02:38,442 --> 00:02:40,644 He personally is what drums are all about. 35 00:02:40,644 --> 00:02:43,247 He is certifiably nuts. He's mad. 36 00:02:43,247 --> 00:02:46,017 I think he was kind of fairly consistently horrible 37 00:02:46,017 --> 00:02:47,518 To people and to himself. 38 00:02:47,518 --> 00:02:48,986 If they've got a problem with me, 39 00:02:48,986 --> 00:02:50,855 Come and see me and punch me on the nose. 40 00:02:50,855 --> 00:02:52,924 I ain't gonna sue you. I'm gonna hit you back. 41 00:02:52,924 --> 00:02:55,927 He's moved around the world, 42 00:02:55,927 --> 00:02:57,929 Getting thrown out of every country. 43 00:02:57,929 --> 00:02:59,630 He's a rogue. He's a lovable rogue. 44 00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:01,398 He was a fucking dope addict, man. 45 00:03:01,398 --> 00:03:02,767 He was into drugs heavily. 46 00:03:02,767 --> 00:03:04,702 Are you surprised that he's still living? 47 00:03:04,702 --> 00:03:06,203 Yes, I am. [Laughs] 48 00:03:06,203 --> 00:03:08,539 If a plane went down and it was one person gonna get off, 49 00:03:08,539 --> 00:03:09,540 It would be Ginger. 50 00:03:09,540 --> 00:03:10,942 He was a scary guy. 51 00:03:10,942 --> 00:03:14,211 When I would look at him, he looked like the devil. 52 00:03:14,211 --> 00:03:16,881 The devil takes care of its own, yes. 53 00:03:16,881 --> 00:03:18,615 Like a great virtuoso madman. 54 00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:22,353 Maybe you have to be a little mad to play the way he does. 55 00:03:22,353 --> 00:03:25,089 Probably the greatest drummer that any of us had ever heard. 56 00:03:25,089 --> 00:03:26,623 He was the hammer of the gods. 57 00:03:26,623 --> 00:03:29,526 - He's a force of nature. - The world's greatest drummer. 58 00:03:29,526 --> 00:03:33,898 He influenced me as a drummer, but not as a person. 59 00:03:33,898 --> 00:03:36,801 [Cheers and applause] 60 00:03:37,835 --> 00:03:40,137 Ginger Baker on drums! 61 00:03:40,137 --> 00:03:43,240 [Cheers and applause] 62 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:48,445 I was 26 years old, 63 00:03:48,445 --> 00:03:52,683 And my friend popped in a DVD of this redheaded madman 64 00:03:52,683 --> 00:03:54,986 Driving across the Sahara Desert. 65 00:03:54,986 --> 00:03:58,790 My initial reaction was, "This guy has to be dead." 66 00:03:58,790 --> 00:04:00,925 But I searched for his name on the Internet, 67 00:04:00,925 --> 00:04:03,360 And, lo and behold, I found this article... 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,330 "Ginger Baker vows to strip in South African court 69 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:09,000 "To prove that woman claiming to be his lover 70 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,002 Has never seen his cock before." 71 00:04:11,002 --> 00:04:14,271 [Mid-tempo rock music playing] 72 00:04:14,271 --> 00:04:19,443 Not only was he still alive, but he's still a fucking madman. 73 00:04:19,443 --> 00:04:21,512 I have to meet this guy. 74 00:04:21,512 --> 00:04:22,413 Ginger. Ginger. 75 00:04:22,413 --> 00:04:23,514 Hey, Ginger, it's Jay. 76 00:04:23,514 --> 00:04:25,149 Hey, it's Jay Bulger. 77 00:04:25,149 --> 00:04:27,518 I told him I was a writer for Rolling Stone magazine, 78 00:04:27,518 --> 00:04:28,886 Which was a total lie. 79 00:04:28,886 --> 00:04:30,687 I want to come and write an article 80 00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:31,889 About your trip to Africa. 81 00:04:31,889 --> 00:04:33,390 But that was my in, 82 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:36,427 And he invited me to come down and hear his story. 83 00:04:39,130 --> 00:04:41,132 Oh, are you all right? 84 00:04:42,867 --> 00:04:44,235 Your dog got poisoned? 85 00:04:44,235 --> 00:04:46,203 Hey, feel better. I'll call you on Wednesday. 86 00:04:46,203 --> 00:04:47,671 I'm coming out there. Bye. 87 00:04:47,671 --> 00:04:48,973 And I flew to South Africa 88 00:04:48,973 --> 00:04:51,242 And just kind of showed up at his house. 89 00:04:51,242 --> 00:04:54,445 Mr. Baker, nice to finally meet you. 90 00:04:54,445 --> 00:04:55,712 Huh? 91 00:04:55,712 --> 00:04:57,348 Thanks for having me. 92 00:04:57,348 --> 00:04:58,515 Yeah. 93 00:04:58,515 --> 00:04:59,884 And I lived with him. 94 00:04:59,884 --> 00:05:01,552 [Music continues] 95 00:05:01,552 --> 00:05:03,420 It was a truly humbling experience. 96 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:04,455 [Screams] 97 00:05:04,455 --> 00:05:06,891 Why don't you listen to the fucking story? 98 00:05:06,891 --> 00:05:08,592 This is a fucking nightmare. 99 00:05:08,592 --> 00:05:09,894 Fucking my brain up. 100 00:05:09,894 --> 00:05:12,930 People zapper. [Electricity crackles] 101 00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:17,468 I wrote an article, and it was published in Rolling Stone. 102 00:05:20,804 --> 00:05:22,373 Thank you, Ginger Baker. 103 00:05:22,373 --> 00:05:25,609 He had gifted me with a career as a journalist, 104 00:05:25,609 --> 00:05:29,346 But I owed him so much more than just words on paper. 105 00:05:29,346 --> 00:05:33,117 People needed to meet the man, hear him play the drums, 106 00:05:33,117 --> 00:05:37,088 And experience this legendary character for themselves. 107 00:05:43,794 --> 00:05:45,829 Phew. 108 00:05:46,797 --> 00:05:48,565 [Intercom beeping] 109 00:05:49,500 --> 00:05:53,504 As we enter into the Baker compound. 110 00:05:53,504 --> 00:05:57,441 Okay, the laws of South Africa, which are loose enough, 111 00:05:57,441 --> 00:05:58,609 No longer apply. 112 00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:01,345 [Dogs barking] 113 00:06:05,316 --> 00:06:08,219 [Indistinct talking on television] 114 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,188 My friends. 115 00:06:14,926 --> 00:06:16,560 How are you? 116 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:17,628 I'm great. 117 00:06:17,628 --> 00:06:21,065 Look. You got a smile on your face. 118 00:06:21,065 --> 00:06:22,399 You missed me! 119 00:06:22,399 --> 00:06:24,768 - Yeah. - You missed me! 120 00:06:24,768 --> 00:06:27,004 I can see it in your eyes. 121 00:06:27,939 --> 00:06:30,908 So, you've been practicing the drums? 122 00:06:31,608 --> 00:06:32,944 Haven't touched them? 123 00:06:32,944 --> 00:06:34,678 Haven't touched them for months. 124 00:06:34,678 --> 00:06:36,147 Really? 125 00:06:36,147 --> 00:06:38,282 Meet Ginger Baker. 126 00:06:38,282 --> 00:06:39,150 Hello. 127 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:42,886 The man, the myth, the legend. 128 00:06:42,886 --> 00:06:44,821 The only thing I can say to that, really, 129 00:06:44,821 --> 00:06:51,495 Is it's far too long a story to say on one interview. 130 00:06:51,495 --> 00:06:53,230 I'm writing a book. 131 00:06:53,230 --> 00:06:56,333 When the book's published, read it, 132 00:06:56,333 --> 00:06:59,703 And perhaps you'll understand. 133 00:06:59,703 --> 00:07:01,838 And when were you born? 134 00:07:01,838 --> 00:07:05,576 You know when I was born. 135 00:07:06,777 --> 00:07:08,179 It's in the book. 136 00:07:08,179 --> 00:07:10,381 Fuck the book. We're not doing the book. 137 00:07:10,381 --> 00:07:14,218 It's the 19th of August 1939, 138 00:07:14,218 --> 00:07:17,888 Three weeks or so before war was declared. 139 00:07:17,888 --> 00:07:21,525 [Shouting in German] 140 00:07:21,525 --> 00:07:24,695 [Crowd shouting] 141 00:07:24,695 --> 00:07:26,430 My dad was a hero. 142 00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:28,465 [Drums beating] 143 00:07:28,465 --> 00:07:32,469 He died when I was 4 1/2 years old. 144 00:07:34,471 --> 00:07:36,707 You don't see bombs dropping, 145 00:07:36,707 --> 00:07:41,012 'Cause the siren goes off, and you're in the shelter. 146 00:07:41,012 --> 00:07:42,646 You hear them. 147 00:07:42,646 --> 00:07:44,148 [Drumming continues] 148 00:07:44,148 --> 00:07:46,383 [Trumpet playing] 149 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,555 They used to go "bop, bop, bop, bop, bop"... 150 00:07:51,555 --> 00:07:53,357 This funny little clattering noise. 151 00:07:53,357 --> 00:07:56,827 And then the noise would stop, and they'd go... 152 00:07:56,827 --> 00:07:58,095 [Whistles] 153 00:07:58,095 --> 00:08:01,365 [Drumming continues] 154 00:08:01,365 --> 00:08:02,733 When we went back to school, 155 00:08:02,733 --> 00:08:06,537 There were quite a few empty desks, yeah. 156 00:08:11,508 --> 00:08:16,047 Yeah, the bombs going off, you know, to me was great. 157 00:08:16,047 --> 00:08:17,781 [Laughs] 158 00:08:17,781 --> 00:08:21,218 I still love explosions to this day, you know? 159 00:08:21,218 --> 00:08:23,920 You don't know. Right. 160 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,656 I love disasters. 161 00:08:25,656 --> 00:08:27,624 [Drumming continues] 162 00:08:29,860 --> 00:08:36,667 I was considered a troublemaker, a smartass, brainless child. 163 00:08:36,667 --> 00:08:41,772 I was part of this school gang, and we'd go in this record shop, 164 00:08:41,772 --> 00:08:45,742 And the other guys would be nicking records. 165 00:08:45,742 --> 00:08:47,811 But I was a decoy. 166 00:08:47,811 --> 00:08:51,748 I'd just take records into the booths and play them. 167 00:08:51,748 --> 00:08:55,686 And then one day, I heard "The Quintet of the Year." 168 00:08:55,686 --> 00:08:57,054 [Laughs] 169 00:08:57,054 --> 00:08:59,523 [Up-tempo jazz plays] 170 00:09:04,561 --> 00:09:08,165 I didn't even have a record player, but I nicked it. 171 00:09:08,165 --> 00:09:09,666 All of a sudden, 172 00:09:09,666 --> 00:09:12,436 There was something that I really could relate to. 173 00:09:12,436 --> 00:09:14,638 You know, Max on "The Quintet of the Year" 174 00:09:14,638 --> 00:09:18,175 Is just out of this fucking world. 175 00:09:28,585 --> 00:09:33,757 My mom found the records, and she went fucking crazy. 176 00:09:33,757 --> 00:09:35,859 Mom used to use the strap on him, 177 00:09:35,859 --> 00:09:37,128 And it made no difference. 178 00:09:37,128 --> 00:09:39,696 I used to be in my bedroom, 179 00:09:39,696 --> 00:09:42,766 Listening to him being strapped and screaming. 180 00:09:42,766 --> 00:09:44,501 But it made no difference. 181 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:48,272 She just said, "Look, if ever I find you 182 00:09:48,272 --> 00:09:50,407 "Doing something dishonest like this, 183 00:09:50,407 --> 00:09:52,809 I will call the police." 184 00:09:52,809 --> 00:09:56,647 So I wouldn't talk to the gang anymore, 185 00:09:56,647 --> 00:10:00,151 And I got beaten up several times by them. 186 00:10:00,151 --> 00:10:05,289 Started carving me up with a razor blade with tape around it. 187 00:10:05,289 --> 00:10:08,425 They carved all these lines all over my arms 188 00:10:08,425 --> 00:10:11,562 And my face and everything. 189 00:10:11,562 --> 00:10:14,298 I wasn't very popular when I went back to school. 190 00:10:15,766 --> 00:10:21,438 It was about this time that I'd got the letter from my dad. 191 00:10:21,438 --> 00:10:26,443 He wrote a letter for me to be opened when I was 14. 192 00:10:26,443 --> 00:10:29,580 "My dear son, it's just a little advice 193 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:33,049 "In the way I should like you to turn out. 194 00:10:33,049 --> 00:10:35,152 "Be a man at all times. 195 00:10:35,152 --> 00:10:37,188 "Hold your own ground. 196 00:10:37,188 --> 00:10:38,655 "Use your fists. 197 00:10:38,655 --> 00:10:42,326 "They are your best pals so often. 198 00:10:42,326 --> 00:10:45,061 I remain your loving father." 199 00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:49,533 Before that, if people used to punch me and that, 200 00:10:49,533 --> 00:10:53,069 I just used to cry and think, "Why are they hitting me?" 201 00:10:53,069 --> 00:10:54,971 I wouldn't retaliate. 202 00:10:54,971 --> 00:10:57,541 And I beat this kid up. 203 00:10:58,675 --> 00:11:00,677 [Drums beating] 204 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:04,715 I was gonna kill him. 205 00:11:06,082 --> 00:11:08,352 It's the Baker temper. 206 00:11:08,352 --> 00:11:11,255 I've learnt to control it, but he hasn't. 207 00:11:11,255 --> 00:11:13,257 [Drumming continues] 208 00:11:13,257 --> 00:11:17,828 I was drumming all the time, as long as I can remember. 209 00:11:17,828 --> 00:11:21,632 I was always banging on the desks in school, 210 00:11:21,632 --> 00:11:25,702 And they were all just boogieing and dancing and going crazy. 211 00:11:25,702 --> 00:11:28,805 There was a party, and they had a band there. 212 00:11:28,805 --> 00:11:31,675 And all the kids from school kept saying, "Go on." 213 00:11:31,675 --> 00:11:34,411 Go and play the drums. Go and play the drums." 214 00:11:34,411 --> 00:11:37,914 And I just sat down, and I could play. 215 00:11:37,914 --> 00:11:41,618 That's when a light went off... I went "Fuck, I'm a drummer." 216 00:11:41,618 --> 00:11:42,419 [Laughs] 217 00:11:42,419 --> 00:11:44,621 [Drumming continues] 218 00:11:47,924 --> 00:11:50,261 It's a gift from God, Jay. 219 00:11:50,261 --> 00:11:52,729 You've either got it or you haven't. 220 00:11:52,729 --> 00:11:54,598 I had it. 221 00:11:57,801 --> 00:11:59,270 Had what? 222 00:11:59,270 --> 00:12:01,305 Time. 223 00:12:02,205 --> 00:12:04,074 Natural time. 224 00:12:04,074 --> 00:12:06,543 [Drumming continues] 225 00:12:12,349 --> 00:12:17,888 His drumbeat is so personal that I always know if it's him. 226 00:12:17,888 --> 00:12:20,691 I started doing quite well, I guess. 227 00:12:20,691 --> 00:12:25,629 I'd got a sort of reputation as a jazz drummer. 228 00:12:25,629 --> 00:12:27,398 My boyfriend at the time said, 229 00:12:27,398 --> 00:12:29,500 "Oh, you want to hear this drummer. 230 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,768 He's really great." [Laughs] 231 00:12:31,768 --> 00:12:35,238 She really could dance. She had really good time. 232 00:12:36,206 --> 00:12:39,376 And a good body, obviously. 233 00:12:39,376 --> 00:12:42,045 He's always been insecure deep down. 234 00:12:42,045 --> 00:12:47,451 And I think Ginger did search for a father figure, 235 00:12:47,451 --> 00:12:50,220 But they were always a drummer. 236 00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:55,058 One night, I was playing the all-nighter in the Flamingo, 237 00:12:55,058 --> 00:12:59,630 And I'd got offstage to be confronted by God. 238 00:13:08,805 --> 00:13:12,643 Phil was just the most amazing drummer. 239 00:13:12,643 --> 00:13:16,179 He was the only drummer at that time 240 00:13:16,179 --> 00:13:18,815 That brought tears to my eyes. 241 00:13:18,815 --> 00:13:23,520 He said, "You're the first fucking drummer I've heard here." 242 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,821 Come with me." 243 00:13:24,821 --> 00:13:28,892 So we go down into his basement flat, 244 00:13:28,892 --> 00:13:32,963 And that is when I got introduced to heroin 245 00:13:32,963 --> 00:13:35,632 And the African drummers. 246 00:13:35,632 --> 00:13:37,834 He tied this thing around his arm 247 00:13:37,834 --> 00:13:40,637 And told me, "When I tell you, undo it." 248 00:13:40,637 --> 00:13:45,208 And his arms were fucking just a mass of scars 249 00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:47,310 And tracks and stuff. 250 00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:49,913 And he managed to hit a vein, 251 00:13:49,913 --> 00:13:53,116 And I pulled the thing off, and he shot up. 252 00:13:54,084 --> 00:13:57,988 Then he gets out all these African records 253 00:13:57,988 --> 00:13:59,390 And Watusi drummers. 254 00:13:59,390 --> 00:14:01,458 [Distorted voice] African records... 255 00:14:01,458 --> 00:14:03,259 Watusi... African records... 256 00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,263 Gets out all these African records and Watusi... 257 00:14:07,263 --> 00:14:09,866 [Drums beating] 258 00:14:15,406 --> 00:14:17,608 [Wood creaking] 259 00:14:20,544 --> 00:14:23,547 Phil said, "Where's the beat?" 260 00:14:23,547 --> 00:14:25,949 And I'm doing like a three beat on it. 261 00:14:25,949 --> 00:14:28,485 And he said, "No, no, no. Listen." 262 00:14:28,485 --> 00:14:32,188 And he played this four, the real beat, 263 00:14:32,188 --> 00:14:36,092 And it was like a fucking light going on it. 264 00:14:36,092 --> 00:14:42,332 Wow! The basic African rhythms were so fucking cool. 265 00:14:42,332 --> 00:14:45,469 [Drumming continues] 266 00:14:48,705 --> 00:14:51,442 [Metal rattling] 267 00:14:51,442 --> 00:14:54,411 [Needle scratches, music stops] 268 00:14:54,411 --> 00:14:56,513 Then Phil's giving me a great lecture 269 00:14:56,513 --> 00:15:01,618 About how I must never touch heroin ever, 270 00:15:01,618 --> 00:15:04,788 And I walked back five miles or something 271 00:15:04,788 --> 00:15:06,957 In the early-morning sunshine 272 00:15:06,957 --> 00:15:10,427 With Africa going through my head. 273 00:15:10,894 --> 00:15:13,797 I think with Ginger and the heroin, 274 00:15:13,797 --> 00:15:17,434 It was more he thought it would improve his playing. 275 00:15:17,434 --> 00:15:20,203 You're fearless if you use smack. 276 00:15:20,203 --> 00:15:21,905 You don't have any feelings. 277 00:15:21,905 --> 00:15:24,808 You're not scared of anybody or anything. 278 00:15:24,808 --> 00:15:28,244 Whatever you wanted to play, you played. 279 00:15:28,244 --> 00:15:30,080 It was just wonderful. 280 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,114 [Laughs] 281 00:15:31,114 --> 00:15:33,183 He didn't want to be a family man 282 00:15:33,183 --> 00:15:35,719 Or anything like that, really and truly. 283 00:15:35,719 --> 00:15:38,555 Liz discovered she was pregnant, 284 00:15:38,555 --> 00:15:40,457 And we were only 20 years old. 285 00:15:40,457 --> 00:15:45,596 So she tried to get rid of it, and it didn't work, thank God. 286 00:15:45,596 --> 00:15:47,498 They didn't want to have a child, 287 00:15:47,498 --> 00:15:49,399 And my mom took something, some tablets. 288 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:53,837 He got some tablets off another drummer to get rid of me. 289 00:15:53,837 --> 00:15:55,606 I don't care. [Laughs] 290 00:15:55,606 --> 00:15:58,108 They would have been doing me a bloody favor. 291 00:15:58,108 --> 00:16:00,343 No, I don't mind, but it didn't work. 292 00:16:00,343 --> 00:16:01,545 [Laughs] 293 00:16:01,545 --> 00:16:03,113 No screaming or anything. 294 00:16:03,113 --> 00:16:04,214 The baby come out. 295 00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:05,849 And I'm carefully looking 296 00:16:05,849 --> 00:16:08,619 To make sure it's got all its toes and fingers and stuff, 297 00:16:08,619 --> 00:16:10,621 You know, thinking about the time 298 00:16:10,621 --> 00:16:14,758 We tried to abort it and stuff. 299 00:16:14,758 --> 00:16:17,060 There was this little kid. 300 00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:20,697 And that's when I decided to get straight, 301 00:16:20,697 --> 00:16:25,301 And it took me another fucking 19 years or so. 302 00:16:25,301 --> 00:16:26,903 So, what's the difference 303 00:16:26,903 --> 00:16:29,806 Between your state of chemical dependencies now 304 00:16:29,806 --> 00:16:31,975 Than it was when you were a junkie? 305 00:16:31,975 --> 00:16:34,410 I've no idea. 306 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:36,847 I take it every day. 307 00:16:36,847 --> 00:16:40,817 It's called degenerative osteoarthritis. 308 00:16:40,817 --> 00:16:43,053 Is that why you haven't been playing the drums? 309 00:16:43,053 --> 00:16:44,855 What?! 310 00:16:46,056 --> 00:16:47,524 Don't you fuck... 311 00:16:47,524 --> 00:16:49,325 How I restrain myself 312 00:16:49,325 --> 00:16:53,997 From throwing everything at you, Jay, I don't know. 313 00:16:53,997 --> 00:16:57,668 There's nothing you can do about it, is there? 314 00:16:57,668 --> 00:16:59,803 [Coughs] 315 00:17:00,971 --> 00:17:03,640 You're not gonna give up? 316 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,878 Sometimes I feel like doing just that. 317 00:17:18,689 --> 00:17:21,157 When you first met Jack Bruce, 318 00:17:21,157 --> 00:17:25,428 Was it as if you knew you had met your musical counterpart? 319 00:17:25,428 --> 00:17:28,198 Early on, for sure, yeah. 320 00:17:28,198 --> 00:17:31,902 I mean, he's a fucking brilliant player. 321 00:17:31,902 --> 00:17:34,104 There's no doubt about that. 322 00:17:34,104 --> 00:17:37,273 Ginger looked like a complete and utter madman. 323 00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:39,710 He was the loudest drummer I'd ever heard. 324 00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:43,580 And I wanted to play with him, so I asked if I could sit in. 325 00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:48,518 Kept bugging us to sit in, and he wouldn't fucking go away. 326 00:17:48,518 --> 00:17:50,353 So, of course, they did the thing 327 00:17:50,353 --> 00:17:53,523 That jazz musicians always do, which is to try and cut you. 328 00:17:53,523 --> 00:17:56,727 I think the first thing they played was very, very fast. 329 00:17:56,727 --> 00:17:58,461 And he played it. 330 00:17:58,461 --> 00:18:00,463 [Laughs] 331 00:18:00,463 --> 00:18:02,733 Which is quite extraordinary. 332 00:18:02,733 --> 00:18:04,067 Jack got the gig 333 00:18:04,067 --> 00:18:07,270 With Alexis Korner's Blues Incorporated, 334 00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:11,574 And none of them were terribly happy with the drummer, 335 00:18:11,574 --> 00:18:13,276 Who was Charlie Watts. 336 00:18:13,276 --> 00:18:16,012 I actually don't know how long Ginger was with the band. 337 00:18:16,012 --> 00:18:20,717 I know he took over for me, on my recommendation. 338 00:18:20,717 --> 00:18:24,420 Charlie left the band so that I could join. 339 00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:27,157 [Down-tempo jazz playing] 340 00:18:27,157 --> 00:18:30,193 Can you tell me the story of Mick Jagger? 341 00:18:30,193 --> 00:18:31,895 [Mutters] 342 00:18:31,895 --> 00:18:36,066 "Can you tell me what it was like meeting Mick Jagger?" 343 00:18:37,567 --> 00:18:43,039 This effeminate-looking kid got up and sung one number. 344 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:46,910 And I'm going, "Jack, who is this stupid little cunt?" 345 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:48,444 What's he doing here?" 346 00:18:48,444 --> 00:18:52,548 Jack and I used to put some jazz things in, 347 00:18:52,548 --> 00:18:55,351 Completely throw him off. 348 00:18:55,351 --> 00:18:58,054 I mean, I was a heavy junkie at the time, 349 00:18:58,054 --> 00:19:00,724 So I just terrified the shit out of him. 350 00:19:00,724 --> 00:19:02,859 [Laughs] 351 00:19:02,859 --> 00:19:06,930 And then Alexis decided to get Graham in the band. 352 00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,432 My first reaction to that was, "Fucking no. 353 00:19:09,432 --> 00:19:12,736 Alexis, watch it, 'cause he'll steal half the band," 354 00:19:12,736 --> 00:19:14,237 Which is exactly what he did. 355 00:19:14,237 --> 00:19:17,207 Can you contextualize who we're speaking about right now? 356 00:19:17,207 --> 00:19:19,943 Well, I've just said it, for fuck's sake. 357 00:19:19,943 --> 00:19:21,411 You just said "Graham." That's it. 358 00:19:21,411 --> 00:19:24,047 People who don't know who Graham is. 359 00:19:26,149 --> 00:19:28,051 Graham Bond was a fat guy. 360 00:19:28,051 --> 00:19:29,753 [Harmonica playing] 361 00:19:29,753 --> 00:19:33,489 * Well, I was standing on the corner, waiting to go home * 362 00:19:33,489 --> 00:19:36,760 * When I heard this sound that made me want to go * 363 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,864 * Well, it was coming from a doss across the street * 364 00:19:40,864 --> 00:19:43,599 * It was kind of stompy, with an R&B beat * 365 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:44,768 * It went... * 366 00:19:44,768 --> 00:19:46,169 Harmonica! Oh! 367 00:19:46,169 --> 00:19:49,405 Graham Bond Organization was to musicians 368 00:19:49,405 --> 00:19:51,674 What The Beatles were to the public. 369 00:19:51,674 --> 00:19:53,409 Brilliant. 370 00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:56,012 Jack Bruce, Ginger Baker, Dick Heckstall-Smith, 371 00:19:56,012 --> 00:19:58,114 And Graham Bond were at the top. 372 00:19:58,114 --> 00:20:01,752 We were a band trying to be like a band in Chicago. 373 00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,686 But they were something else, you know? 374 00:20:03,686 --> 00:20:05,756 * Playin' with an R&B band * 375 00:20:05,756 --> 00:20:07,023 * Oh, yeah! * 376 00:20:07,023 --> 00:20:09,159 His reputation was as being, you know, 377 00:20:09,159 --> 00:20:11,928 Probably the best drummer around in those days. 378 00:20:11,928 --> 00:20:15,065 It was really Ginger's first taste of fame, yes. 379 00:20:15,065 --> 00:20:17,600 It's the same with you, Ginger. 380 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,902 This is beat. 381 00:20:18,902 --> 00:20:20,170 [Beats drum] 382 00:20:20,170 --> 00:20:23,473 Don't worry about splitting your skins. 383 00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:26,409 They can be replaced. 384 00:20:26,409 --> 00:20:28,344 And so can you. 385 00:20:28,344 --> 00:20:32,248 They did sort of contain the seeds of their own destruction, 386 00:20:32,248 --> 00:20:35,018 What with Graham and Ginger's bad habits 387 00:20:35,018 --> 00:20:37,821 And the conflict between Jack and Ginger. 388 00:20:37,821 --> 00:20:39,289 For two musicians 389 00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:42,092 Who were incredibly complementary to each other 390 00:20:42,092 --> 00:20:44,627 And who have played consistently over the years, 391 00:20:44,627 --> 00:20:50,333 It's really remarkable how well they didn't get along. 392 00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:53,636 It was a very sad situation, really. 393 00:20:53,636 --> 00:20:57,808 In the early days, when he was following me more, 394 00:20:57,808 --> 00:21:00,310 The music was really fucking great. 395 00:21:00,310 --> 00:21:04,180 When I switched from upright bass to bass guitar, 396 00:21:04,180 --> 00:21:06,449 That wasn't what Ginger wanted. 397 00:21:06,449 --> 00:21:09,685 I think that was when the problems started. 398 00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:13,790 Jack's like a guy who gets up before the sun comes 399 00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:16,059 To see the sun rise. 400 00:21:16,059 --> 00:21:19,329 He sees the sun come halfway over the horizon 401 00:21:19,329 --> 00:21:22,933 And runs home and says, "I've seen the sun rise." 402 00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:28,471 That was how Jack got the time things 403 00:21:28,471 --> 00:21:30,640 That I was showing him. 404 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,343 He didn't get the full picture. 405 00:21:33,343 --> 00:21:37,147 I have perfect time, which is a quite useful thing to have. 406 00:21:37,147 --> 00:21:39,482 Very few people have that. 407 00:21:39,482 --> 00:21:40,917 It's just a gift. 408 00:21:40,917 --> 00:21:44,520 The last number was always the drum solo. 409 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,157 And I've kicked into the drum solo, 410 00:21:47,157 --> 00:21:50,093 And Jack's, like, playing with me. 411 00:21:50,093 --> 00:21:53,396 I wouldn't be playing during his drum solo. 412 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:57,500 And I off-loaded a right-hander on him. 413 00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:01,104 He went down on the ground, and I'm kicking him. 414 00:22:01,104 --> 00:22:03,940 You know, "Get up, you little cunt!" 415 00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:06,409 I was kicking the shit out of him. 416 00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:08,278 [Drum solo] 417 00:22:08,278 --> 00:22:13,416 I just let go, and I was gonna kick him to death. 418 00:22:13,416 --> 00:22:16,819 And then he pulled a knife on me and said, "You're fired." 419 00:22:16,819 --> 00:22:18,388 And I said, "But you can't fire me. 420 00:22:18,388 --> 00:22:20,690 "It's The Graham Bond Organization, 421 00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,192 And I'm the founding member." 422 00:22:22,192 --> 00:22:23,493 But poor old Graham... 423 00:22:23,493 --> 00:22:25,862 He was well gone into smack by that time, 424 00:22:25,862 --> 00:22:27,530 So he didn't really care. 425 00:22:27,530 --> 00:22:31,667 Graham was probably a bigger disaster area than Ginger was. 426 00:22:31,667 --> 00:22:34,871 We would be using a mixture of cocaine, heroin, 427 00:22:34,871 --> 00:22:37,440 And lysergic acid in a fix. 428 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,608 [Laughs] 429 00:22:38,608 --> 00:22:42,946 I was very hurt by not the knife thing, 430 00:22:42,946 --> 00:22:46,782 But the fact that I was out of that band. 431 00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:51,321 And it was very stupid of him, because the band was doing well, 432 00:22:51,321 --> 00:22:54,624 And I was quite an important part of the band. 433 00:22:54,624 --> 00:22:58,394 The band continued being very successful 434 00:22:58,394 --> 00:23:01,531 And just reached a point where I thought, 435 00:23:01,531 --> 00:23:06,136 "I've been running the band successfully for three years. 436 00:23:06,136 --> 00:23:10,173 Why don't I run my own band instead?" 437 00:23:10,173 --> 00:23:13,977 [Cream's "White Room" plays] 438 00:23:21,985 --> 00:23:26,756 The first person I thought of was Eric. 439 00:23:26,756 --> 00:23:30,360 [Guitar solo] 440 00:23:34,597 --> 00:23:38,034 He saw something in me that I never saw before. 441 00:23:38,034 --> 00:23:40,036 He would say it was about time. 442 00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:43,473 He had time that very few people have. 443 00:23:43,473 --> 00:23:44,674 Eric had it. 444 00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:48,278 Ginger was pretty dismissive and antisocial... 445 00:23:48,278 --> 00:23:50,013 Seriously antisocial. 446 00:23:50,013 --> 00:23:52,015 But he had the gift. 447 00:23:52,015 --> 00:23:55,285 He had the spark, the flair, the panache. 448 00:23:55,285 --> 00:23:56,987 He had it in spades. 449 00:23:56,987 --> 00:23:59,089 And Jack had the same thing. 450 00:23:59,089 --> 00:24:02,558 He said, "What about Jack as the bass player?" 451 00:24:02,558 --> 00:24:05,828 And all the red lights in the world went off, 452 00:24:05,828 --> 00:24:07,863 And I thought, "Oh, God." 453 00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:11,534 I was very surprised when he came knocking again. 454 00:24:11,534 --> 00:24:13,569 I didn't see that coming. No. 455 00:24:13,569 --> 00:24:15,105 I didn't expect that, no. 456 00:24:15,105 --> 00:24:17,340 ["I Feel Free" plays] 457 00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:23,013 * Feel when I dance with you * 458 00:24:23,013 --> 00:24:27,117 * We move like the sea * 459 00:24:28,284 --> 00:24:32,955 * I feel free * 460 00:24:33,423 --> 00:24:36,192 * I can walk down the street, there's no one there * 461 00:24:36,192 --> 00:24:38,661 * Though the pavements are one huge crowd * 462 00:24:38,661 --> 00:24:41,364 * I can drive down the road, my eyes don't see * 463 00:24:41,364 --> 00:24:44,267 * Though my mind wants to cry out loud * 464 00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:48,571 When an atomic bomb went off like that, 465 00:24:48,571 --> 00:24:50,973 Like I think Cream really represented, 466 00:24:50,973 --> 00:24:53,076 It overwhelmed everything. 467 00:24:53,076 --> 00:24:57,047 ["Tales of Brave Ulysses" plays] 468 00:25:01,551 --> 00:25:05,821 When Hendrix came to England, he wanted to jam with Cream, 469 00:25:05,821 --> 00:25:08,691 Because there was nobody else that he admired as much. 470 00:25:08,691 --> 00:25:11,961 They were the beginning of many, many things. 471 00:25:11,961 --> 00:25:13,263 Cream absolutely might be called 472 00:25:13,263 --> 00:25:14,730 The first progressive band. 473 00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:16,099 The first supergroup. 474 00:25:16,099 --> 00:25:18,334 The first band that played in big arenas. 475 00:25:18,334 --> 00:25:19,802 The first jam band. 476 00:25:19,802 --> 00:25:23,339 They were breaking out of the chains of pop. 477 00:25:30,046 --> 00:25:31,647 We were fucking good. 478 00:25:31,647 --> 00:25:34,684 That's how we called ourselves Cream. 479 00:25:34,684 --> 00:25:38,454 We knew we were the three best musicians around. 480 00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:40,590 If Cream did not invent heavy metal, 481 00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:43,526 They certainly were part of a band of brothers 482 00:25:43,526 --> 00:25:46,529 That were very instrumental in facilitating it. 483 00:25:46,529 --> 00:25:51,734 The birth of heavy metal should have been aborted. 484 00:25:52,335 --> 00:25:54,537 He was really at the forefront 485 00:25:54,537 --> 00:25:57,140 Of a complete revolution of rock. 486 00:25:57,140 --> 00:26:00,343 ["Sunshine of Your Love" plays] 487 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,516 It's hard to find fault with the notion 488 00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:08,551 That he was the pioneer of a rock drummer. 489 00:26:08,551 --> 00:26:11,821 There was no context for him. There was no archetype. 490 00:26:11,821 --> 00:26:13,223 He is the archetype. 491 00:26:13,223 --> 00:26:15,091 Before Ginger, rhythm was 492 00:26:15,091 --> 00:26:16,892 "Ting, ting, ting-ting, ting, ting-ting." 493 00:26:16,892 --> 00:26:18,428 And Ginger comes along... 494 00:26:18,428 --> 00:26:21,364 "Dug-a-dug-dug, dug-a-dug-dug, Dug-dug-dug-a-dug..." 495 00:26:21,364 --> 00:26:25,501 * I'll be with you, darling, soon * 496 00:26:25,501 --> 00:26:30,373 * I'll be with you when the stars start falling * 497 00:26:30,373 --> 00:26:34,577 * I've been waiting so long * 498 00:26:35,311 --> 00:26:39,515 * To be where I'm going * 499 00:26:39,515 --> 00:26:46,689 * In the sunshine of your love * 500 00:26:49,592 --> 00:26:51,527 When he was listening to music as a kid, 501 00:26:51,527 --> 00:26:53,396 He wasn't listening to the Jimi Hendrix 502 00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:55,565 And guitar-hero bands and so on. 503 00:26:55,565 --> 00:26:57,099 He invented all that stuff. 504 00:26:57,099 --> 00:26:58,668 Jack brought it in as going 505 00:26:58,668 --> 00:27:01,337 "Diddle-a-di-di, di-di-da-dee-dee, diddle..." 506 00:27:01,337 --> 00:27:02,772 Dingbat, ditty bat. 507 00:27:02,772 --> 00:27:06,075 That's where Jack's head is writing. 508 00:27:06,075 --> 00:27:08,411 And I said, "Man, that's terrible. 509 00:27:08,411 --> 00:27:11,747 Why don't you slow it down and play it backwards?" 510 00:27:11,747 --> 00:27:14,917 Ba-da-da-ba, ba-ba... 511 00:27:15,785 --> 00:27:21,624 Another one is "White Room," the 5/4 bolero that makes it. 512 00:27:21,624 --> 00:27:25,828 Da, bum-bum-bum-bum, bum-bum-bum, da... 513 00:27:25,828 --> 00:27:27,363 Wasn't written like that. 514 00:27:27,363 --> 00:27:29,565 Jack wrote it in 4/4. 515 00:27:29,565 --> 00:27:32,702 He now declares "I wrote it in 5/4." 516 00:27:32,702 --> 00:27:33,636 I mean, hello? 517 00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:35,505 * In the white room * 518 00:27:35,505 --> 00:27:37,807 * With black curtains * 519 00:27:37,807 --> 00:27:40,910 * In the station * 520 00:27:41,677 --> 00:27:46,782 Today and for the last... How long is it now?... 40 years, 521 00:27:46,782 --> 00:27:51,521 Pete Brown and Jack Bruce have been earning 522 00:27:51,521 --> 00:27:54,957 A hell of a lot more money from Cream 523 00:27:54,957 --> 00:27:59,662 Than Eric and I will ever earn, to this day. 524 00:27:59,662 --> 00:28:01,831 The guy who gets the credit for writing the song 525 00:28:01,831 --> 00:28:04,367 Is the guy who writes the lyric gets half of it, 526 00:28:04,367 --> 00:28:06,469 And the guy who writes the melody of the lyric 527 00:28:06,469 --> 00:28:07,770 Gets the other half. 528 00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:10,573 The drums are part of the arrangement, 529 00:28:10,573 --> 00:28:12,775 And the arrangement doesn't get royalties. 530 00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:13,776 Zip. Nada. 531 00:28:13,776 --> 00:28:15,845 Cream was my thing. 532 00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:18,881 And it did exactly what I planned it to do. 533 00:28:18,881 --> 00:28:22,117 Only I'm the guy who lost out on it. 534 00:28:22,117 --> 00:28:24,287 I'm fucking broke right now. 535 00:28:24,287 --> 00:28:28,258 * Run from themselves * 536 00:28:29,892 --> 00:28:32,495 [Crowd cheering] 537 00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:41,203 To Jack Bruce's counterpoint, he gives rhythm, 538 00:28:41,203 --> 00:28:44,307 And to Eric Clapton's technical virtuosity, he gives shape. 539 00:28:44,307 --> 00:28:47,009 On their first tour together, he practiced so intensively 540 00:28:47,009 --> 00:28:49,479 That he left behind him a trail of hotel bills 541 00:28:49,479 --> 00:28:50,846 For broken furniture. 542 00:28:50,846 --> 00:28:53,015 We asked him if he still practiced as much. 543 00:28:53,015 --> 00:28:56,218 No. I don't practice at all. 544 00:28:56,218 --> 00:28:57,720 Not at all? 545 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,555 I used to, but I don't anymore. 546 00:28:59,555 --> 00:29:01,924 I just used to play solos. 547 00:29:01,924 --> 00:29:06,429 Just used to sit on the drum kit and play it all day. 548 00:29:06,429 --> 00:29:07,630 Can you show us some? 549 00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:09,932 - You want me to play? - Please. 550 00:29:09,932 --> 00:29:13,002 [Chuckles] At this time of the day. 551 00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:31,487 Independence... the ability to play a different thing 552 00:29:31,487 --> 00:29:33,623 With all four limbs, 553 00:29:33,623 --> 00:29:36,892 Which is how I play things that sound incredibly fast 554 00:29:36,892 --> 00:29:40,162 When I'm not actually moving anything very fast. 555 00:29:40,162 --> 00:29:43,299 Because all four beats are landing in a different place, 556 00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:46,201 So what comes out is four times as fast. 557 00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:47,603 [Laughs] 558 00:29:47,603 --> 00:29:51,240 But it's not how fast you play. 559 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,376 It's what you say. 560 00:29:53,376 --> 00:29:55,578 [Drum solo] 561 00:30:00,950 --> 00:30:03,586 Ginger Baker's most notable achievement 562 00:30:03,586 --> 00:30:06,389 That should be recognized is the first rock drum solo. 563 00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:08,358 And me as a 15-year-old kid at the time 564 00:30:08,358 --> 00:30:11,193 Was like, "Yeah, yeah, that's the rock drummer I want to be." 565 00:30:11,193 --> 00:30:12,395 I must have been 16. 566 00:30:12,395 --> 00:30:13,996 I was exactly the sweet spot 567 00:30:13,996 --> 00:30:17,333 Where my brain clicked on and said, "What's it all about?" 568 00:30:17,333 --> 00:30:18,568 It was Ginger's drums. 569 00:30:18,568 --> 00:30:20,603 I'm here today because of Ginger, 570 00:30:20,603 --> 00:30:23,439 Because he was the absolute inspiration 571 00:30:23,439 --> 00:30:26,241 For me being in a band, playing the drums. 572 00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:30,012 I absolutely thought, "You know, that's what I'd like to be." 573 00:30:34,016 --> 00:30:36,352 [Music continues] 574 00:30:39,288 --> 00:30:40,723 It became Ginger's thing. 575 00:30:40,723 --> 00:30:43,058 He'd do these very long drum solos. 576 00:30:43,058 --> 00:30:45,561 You either liked them or you didn't like them. 577 00:30:45,561 --> 00:30:49,198 I liked them because I could go off and have a smoke, you know? 578 00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:51,133 Cream... How popular were they? 579 00:30:51,133 --> 00:30:52,435 Oh, huge, huge. 580 00:30:52,435 --> 00:30:53,936 How huge is "huge"? 581 00:30:53,936 --> 00:30:56,606 Well, they did three nights in Madison Square Garden. 582 00:30:56,606 --> 00:30:59,709 They could have done two weeks and sold out every night. 583 00:30:59,709 --> 00:31:02,044 When a promoter hired The Cream, 584 00:31:02,044 --> 00:31:05,481 Ginger wanted a case of beer and two black hookers 585 00:31:05,481 --> 00:31:08,117 And a white limo or he wouldn't play. 586 00:31:08,117 --> 00:31:09,351 I've been in hotel rooms, 587 00:31:09,351 --> 00:31:11,020 And there's been a knock on the door. 588 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:12,354 I've opened the door, 589 00:31:12,354 --> 00:31:14,890 And there's been three groupies all standing there. 590 00:31:14,890 --> 00:31:17,226 Just queues of chicks waiting. [Laughs] 591 00:31:17,226 --> 00:31:20,062 One would knock on the door and climb into bed. 592 00:31:20,062 --> 00:31:22,598 We used to call them "star fuckers." 593 00:31:22,598 --> 00:31:24,266 You know, they'd come and say like, 594 00:31:24,266 --> 00:31:26,969 "I'd like to give you a blowjob and see you come." 595 00:31:26,969 --> 00:31:31,006 They all wanted to fuck Cream, you know? 596 00:31:31,006 --> 00:31:34,610 It was quite a rapid rise to fame. 597 00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:38,147 I don't know whether it was too fast for Ginger. 598 00:31:38,147 --> 00:31:39,582 I didn't really care. 599 00:31:39,582 --> 00:31:43,352 We'd lived in a succession of not very nice places. 600 00:31:43,352 --> 00:31:44,687 And then for once, we thought, 601 00:31:44,687 --> 00:31:48,057 "Oh, we can actually buy a house of our own." 602 00:31:48,057 --> 00:31:51,494 The family at home was something totally separate 603 00:31:51,494 --> 00:31:53,829 From being on tour. 604 00:31:53,829 --> 00:31:56,832 His dad died when he was 4 or something like that. 605 00:31:56,832 --> 00:32:01,336 So he didn't really have someone, a role-model father. 606 00:32:01,336 --> 00:32:06,776 He communicates more through his drums than through his words. 607 00:32:06,776 --> 00:32:10,713 I told my wife long before we were married, 608 00:32:10,713 --> 00:32:14,917 "If you get me to choose between the drums and you, 609 00:32:14,917 --> 00:32:17,019 I'm gonna choose the drums." 610 00:32:17,019 --> 00:32:18,554 [Chuckles] 611 00:32:18,554 --> 00:32:20,690 We had no other interest. 612 00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:22,792 There was nothing else going on. 613 00:32:22,792 --> 00:32:24,460 There was no family. 614 00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:26,996 There was no desires for success. 615 00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:29,865 There was no commerciality involved. 616 00:32:29,865 --> 00:32:31,501 There was no responsibility 617 00:32:31,501 --> 00:32:35,671 Other than to that unique moment in time when we were together. 618 00:32:35,671 --> 00:32:38,140 And for a short, sweet period of time, 619 00:32:38,140 --> 00:32:42,211 It was unfettered and extreme and beautiful. 620 00:32:42,211 --> 00:32:43,479 They were like Vikings. 621 00:32:43,479 --> 00:32:45,147 You know, they just came on our shore 622 00:32:45,147 --> 00:32:48,050 And just took the women and the children, 623 00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:50,853 It was scorched earth. There was no question about it. 624 00:32:50,853 --> 00:32:52,888 They were here to take heads. 625 00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:57,192 We went there to show the Yanks how to play. 626 00:32:57,192 --> 00:32:59,128 I saw them when they first came to San Francisco. 627 00:32:59,128 --> 00:33:03,298 They looked and sounded like giants. 628 00:33:03,298 --> 00:33:07,770 They took off and started playing supersonic music. 629 00:33:07,770 --> 00:33:12,374 And supersonic music is when the Holy Ghost takes over 630 00:33:12,374 --> 00:33:15,444 And you're playing something that, when you hear it back, 631 00:33:15,444 --> 00:33:17,446 You have no idea what the hell you did. 632 00:33:17,446 --> 00:33:20,249 [Up-tempo rock music playing] 633 00:33:56,018 --> 00:34:00,189 There was something about that little chemistry that we had, 634 00:34:00,189 --> 00:34:01,857 Ginger and me and Eric. 635 00:34:01,857 --> 00:34:04,359 It'll never be repeated by anybody else. 636 00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:08,363 Cream... They were together shorter than our last tour. 637 00:34:08,363 --> 00:34:11,801 You know, we've been on the road for two years and two months. 638 00:34:11,801 --> 00:34:14,704 That's two months longer than their entire life-span. 639 00:34:14,704 --> 00:34:16,639 Sam Kinison would say, "I've had parties 640 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,373 That lasted more than two years." 641 00:34:18,373 --> 00:34:23,178 * We... * 642 00:34:23,178 --> 00:34:24,914 [Crowd cheering] 643 00:34:24,914 --> 00:34:30,019 Cream only lasted as long as it did because it was so popular. 644 00:34:30,019 --> 00:34:34,724 I just couldn't handle working with Jack anymore. 645 00:34:34,724 --> 00:34:36,558 Whatever energy was happening 646 00:34:36,558 --> 00:34:39,662 Between Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker 647 00:34:39,662 --> 00:34:42,497 Also mounted Eric 648 00:34:42,497 --> 00:34:46,736 To play beyond what he was playing with John Mayall 649 00:34:46,736 --> 00:34:48,738 Or later on, all the other bands that he played. 650 00:34:48,738 --> 00:34:51,040 They focused on one another all the time 651 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,408 For their aggression and their frustrations, 652 00:34:53,408 --> 00:34:54,810 And it wore me out. 653 00:34:54,810 --> 00:34:57,546 I remember Eric breaking down in tears once. 654 00:34:57,546 --> 00:35:01,083 [Laughs] That was not very good. 655 00:35:01,083 --> 00:35:02,217 Sorry, Eric. 656 00:35:02,217 --> 00:35:04,153 From time to time, I would break down 657 00:35:04,153 --> 00:35:06,188 And just go, "I can't stand this anymore." 658 00:35:06,188 --> 00:35:08,290 'Cause I was really on the sidelines, 659 00:35:08,290 --> 00:35:10,626 And I knew I couldn't affect anything, 660 00:35:10,626 --> 00:35:13,228 Because I didn't have the understanding 661 00:35:13,228 --> 00:35:16,298 Or the power to be able to do anything about it. 662 00:35:16,298 --> 00:35:18,100 You'd just run, really. 663 00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:21,170 And, you know, when Cream, I thought, had run its course, 664 00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:24,807 I was quite keen to get out of there and have a break, really. 665 00:35:28,911 --> 00:35:31,180 A banger... You know, a firework, 666 00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:33,115 Whatever you call them... Cracker or whatever... 667 00:35:33,115 --> 00:35:35,150 They only last a second, don't they, 668 00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:37,486 And they fizzle up and burn up and that's it. 669 00:35:37,486 --> 00:35:40,389 It's all dead and gone. And the band was like that. 670 00:35:40,389 --> 00:35:43,726 They were never, ever going to be a long-lasting band. 671 00:35:43,726 --> 00:35:49,631 * We're going wrong * 672 00:35:49,631 --> 00:35:51,400 [Music ends] 673 00:36:02,712 --> 00:36:05,014 Hello, Bonnie. 674 00:36:13,155 --> 00:36:20,229 Mimosa, don't be scared of the camera. 675 00:36:22,364 --> 00:36:26,902 You're a soldier boy, aren't you? 676 00:36:26,902 --> 00:36:30,372 Big old, tough soldier boy. 677 00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:39,148 Eric and I decided that we wanted to get together 678 00:36:39,148 --> 00:36:41,550 With this project with Blind Faith. 679 00:36:42,151 --> 00:36:45,988 And... [Tires screech] 680 00:36:46,856 --> 00:36:48,858 Ginger showed up. 681 00:36:48,858 --> 00:36:50,860 [Engine revs] 682 00:36:50,860 --> 00:36:54,263 I just hit it off musically with Stevie 683 00:36:54,263 --> 00:36:57,733 In the same way as I had hit off with Eric. 684 00:36:57,733 --> 00:37:00,402 Stevie had time. 685 00:37:00,402 --> 00:37:04,539 I actually didn't realize until quite a bit later 686 00:37:04,539 --> 00:37:06,842 That Eric was so horrified 687 00:37:06,842 --> 00:37:10,813 That he was hooking up with Ginger again. 688 00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:13,749 The last person that Eric wanted on drums 689 00:37:13,749 --> 00:37:16,218 With his new venture was Ginger. 690 00:37:16,218 --> 00:37:20,622 I believe he turned up at a rehearsal and said, "Right." 691 00:37:20,622 --> 00:37:22,624 Where do we start?" 692 00:37:22,624 --> 00:37:25,194 ["Had To Cry Today" plays] 693 00:37:27,696 --> 00:37:30,299 * It's already written * 694 00:37:30,299 --> 00:37:35,437 * That today will be one to remember * 695 00:37:38,874 --> 00:37:42,111 * The feeling's the same * 696 00:37:42,111 --> 00:37:47,049 * As being outside of the law * 697 00:37:51,887 --> 00:37:56,291 * Had to cry today * 698 00:38:01,630 --> 00:38:06,435 * Saw your sign, and I missed you then * 699 00:38:07,937 --> 00:38:10,572 We were called a supergroup from day one. 700 00:38:10,572 --> 00:38:12,207 We hit the road too early. 701 00:38:12,207 --> 00:38:14,977 And, you know, it overpowered us. 702 00:38:16,245 --> 00:38:20,850 I think Ginger was as happy as a pig in shit in Blind Faith. 703 00:38:20,850 --> 00:38:24,386 You know, there was no one... There was Rick Grech... 704 00:38:24,386 --> 00:38:28,290 Great player, you know, but no Jack Bruce. 705 00:38:28,290 --> 00:38:30,960 And Ginger could fucking do what he wants. 706 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:41,803 * Do what you like * 707 00:38:41,803 --> 00:38:47,309 I was driving a Shelby Cobra up the coast to Los Angeles 708 00:38:47,309 --> 00:38:50,812 With three gorgeous chicks in the car. 709 00:38:50,812 --> 00:38:54,149 And the radio station stopped the music 710 00:38:54,149 --> 00:38:59,321 With the news that Ginger Baker, Blind Faith drummer, 711 00:38:59,321 --> 00:39:02,224 Had just been found dead in his hotel room 712 00:39:02,224 --> 00:39:04,393 From a heroin overdose. 713 00:39:04,393 --> 00:39:06,795 [Laughs] 714 00:39:06,795 --> 00:39:09,999 And I went "Fucking hell. I must be in heaven," you know? 715 00:39:09,999 --> 00:39:12,935 I'm driving this supercar with three super chicks. 716 00:39:12,935 --> 00:39:14,269 [Laughs] 717 00:39:14,269 --> 00:39:16,771 ["Do What You Like" plays] 718 00:39:16,771 --> 00:39:19,808 There was huge amounts of drugs, 719 00:39:19,808 --> 00:39:25,180 Which at the time, I must admit, I didn't really know about, 720 00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:28,017 Because I was probably smoking so much weed, 721 00:39:28,017 --> 00:39:30,319 I didn't really know what was going on anyway. 722 00:39:30,319 --> 00:39:34,289 Every time we got to Los Angeles, 723 00:39:34,289 --> 00:39:36,391 The drugs would appear, 724 00:39:36,391 --> 00:39:41,130 So I decided to go to Hawaii after the tour 725 00:39:41,130 --> 00:39:43,798 To try and get straight. 726 00:39:43,798 --> 00:39:46,835 So Liz come out with the kids. 727 00:39:46,835 --> 00:39:50,172 Considering all the places we've left him before, 728 00:39:50,172 --> 00:39:52,975 I have to say it was marvelous. 729 00:39:52,975 --> 00:39:55,344 ["Can't Find My Way Home" plays] 730 00:39:55,344 --> 00:40:01,250 * You are the reason I've been waiting so long * 731 00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:05,787 * Somebody holds the key * 732 00:40:05,787 --> 00:40:08,523 * Well, I'm near the end * 733 00:40:08,523 --> 00:40:13,495 * And I just ain't got the time * 734 00:40:14,863 --> 00:40:16,932 * And I'm wasted * 735 00:40:16,932 --> 00:40:22,337 * And I can't find my way home * 736 00:40:22,337 --> 00:40:25,340 Only at that time, there was more heroin on Hawaii 737 00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:28,010 Than there was in Los Angeles. 738 00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:31,780 It wasn't a good place to be to get straight. 739 00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:34,416 So we decided to go to Jamaica. 740 00:40:34,416 --> 00:40:37,352 That's when I flew my car out. 741 00:40:37,352 --> 00:40:42,091 That is wild, to fly your car over to Jamaica. 742 00:40:42,091 --> 00:40:44,393 That's crazy. 743 00:40:44,393 --> 00:40:49,098 You get to feel that the money is inexhaustible, 744 00:40:49,098 --> 00:40:50,899 Which, of course, it isn't. 745 00:40:50,899 --> 00:40:55,170 It was like nearly three months after the last gig 746 00:40:55,170 --> 00:40:57,572 That I came back to London. 747 00:40:57,572 --> 00:41:02,244 I'd brought back quite a lot of dope in some masks and stuff. 748 00:41:02,244 --> 00:41:04,513 And so I went to see Stevie 749 00:41:04,513 --> 00:41:08,183 With a bag of grass as a little present. 750 00:41:08,183 --> 00:41:11,653 And he told me that Eric had gone off 751 00:41:11,653 --> 00:41:14,056 With Delaney and Bonnie 752 00:41:14,056 --> 00:41:16,725 And he was getting Traffic back together. 753 00:41:16,725 --> 00:41:20,395 I take full responsibility for having, you know, 754 00:41:20,395 --> 00:41:22,597 Strong interests in going somewhere else. 755 00:41:22,597 --> 00:41:27,202 But they wouldn't have been quite so strong 756 00:41:27,202 --> 00:41:30,139 If the core of the band had been better. 757 00:41:30,139 --> 00:41:34,209 Were you hurt at all that Eric had left without telling you? 758 00:41:34,209 --> 00:41:37,279 No. You could see it coming. 759 00:41:37,279 --> 00:41:39,748 Something to do with me getting so fucked up 760 00:41:39,748 --> 00:41:42,217 On the end of the tour. 761 00:41:42,217 --> 00:41:46,288 He's the best friend I've got on this planet 762 00:41:46,288 --> 00:41:49,824 And always will be, okay? 763 00:41:49,824 --> 00:41:54,163 Whether it be polo or the drums or drugs, 764 00:41:54,163 --> 00:41:57,399 Ginger seems to always go full force 765 00:41:57,399 --> 00:41:59,334 Into whatever he's doing. 766 00:41:59,334 --> 00:42:02,337 Compulsion. We're talking about compulsion. 767 00:42:02,337 --> 00:42:07,576 You know, what's the payoff in being compulsive? 768 00:42:07,576 --> 00:42:12,214 You know, for Ginger, I'm not gonna be his doctor in this 769 00:42:12,214 --> 00:42:15,317 Or psychologist or make a diagnosis. 770 00:42:15,317 --> 00:42:17,852 I can't make a diagnosis of Ginger. 771 00:42:17,852 --> 00:42:20,789 When I was driving in today, 772 00:42:20,789 --> 00:42:23,758 I thought, "Well, do I know Ginger well?" 773 00:42:23,758 --> 00:42:25,227 Do I?" 774 00:42:25,227 --> 00:42:29,331 I've been with him in fairly rarefied situations, 775 00:42:29,331 --> 00:42:31,933 Which allowed me to see certain sides of him. 776 00:42:31,933 --> 00:42:34,936 I probably haven't seen him like you've seen him, 777 00:42:34,936 --> 00:42:38,073 Because I didn't take the effort, the time, 778 00:42:38,073 --> 00:42:41,876 The risk to step into his life and become a part of it 779 00:42:41,876 --> 00:42:43,678 For any length of time. 780 00:42:43,678 --> 00:42:45,614 You know, I've always pulled back 781 00:42:45,614 --> 00:42:48,683 When it started to get scary or threatening 782 00:42:48,683 --> 00:42:51,220 Or just difficult. 783 00:42:52,587 --> 00:42:55,457 You guys want to wait a minute? 'Cause I'm about to cry. 784 00:42:55,457 --> 00:42:56,325 Why? 785 00:42:56,325 --> 00:42:58,560 'Cause, I mean... 786 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,862 [Voice breaking] I might cry. 787 00:43:00,862 --> 00:43:02,531 Why? Because Ginger is... 788 00:43:02,531 --> 00:43:05,434 He's all by himself, all alone, in the woods or something. 789 00:43:05,434 --> 00:43:07,068 Well, he's got a wife. He's got... 790 00:43:07,068 --> 00:43:08,570 Oh! Well, then I won't. 791 00:43:08,570 --> 00:43:09,871 [Laughter] 792 00:43:09,871 --> 00:43:13,708 You guys are trying to live a pretty quiet life here. 793 00:43:13,708 --> 00:43:16,678 As quiet as possible. 794 00:43:20,782 --> 00:43:23,585 Lisa's a little angel. 795 00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:25,720 Hello, Lisa. 796 00:43:27,522 --> 00:43:29,624 I'm extremely fond of her. 797 00:43:29,624 --> 00:43:31,860 I think of her like she's my own. 798 00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:33,995 I wasn't studying yesterday. 799 00:43:33,995 --> 00:43:35,264 [Both laugh] 800 00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:38,367 She's a great little kid. 801 00:43:38,367 --> 00:43:42,070 It's really nice to have a family again. 802 00:43:42,070 --> 00:43:43,605 [Laughter] 803 00:43:43,605 --> 00:43:49,411 If that falls apart, I really don't know what to do. 804 00:43:49,411 --> 00:43:52,247 So Ginger is a good stepfather? 805 00:43:55,950 --> 00:43:57,886 Stepfather. 806 00:43:59,254 --> 00:44:01,456 Yeah. 807 00:44:01,456 --> 00:44:06,428 Do you find yourself to be a tragic hero? 808 00:44:06,428 --> 00:44:08,363 Go on with the interview. 809 00:44:08,363 --> 00:44:11,666 Stop trying to be an intellectual dickhead. 810 00:44:11,666 --> 00:44:13,668 ["Toady" plays] 811 00:44:13,668 --> 00:44:14,869 [Drum solo] 812 00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:43,532 [Music continues] 813 00:44:49,304 --> 00:44:51,940 * Tell me * 814 00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:55,176 * Tell me, Toady * 815 00:44:55,176 --> 00:44:56,711 Ginger's not just a player. 816 00:44:56,711 --> 00:44:58,947 He's also a bandleader and arranger. 817 00:44:58,947 --> 00:45:02,251 We were all brought up on the big-band era, you know? 818 00:45:02,251 --> 00:45:04,986 And that's what Air force was like. 819 00:45:04,986 --> 00:45:07,422 * Tell me * 820 00:45:07,422 --> 00:45:10,459 * Tell me, Toady * 821 00:45:10,459 --> 00:45:14,095 I made a stupid decision of saying, "Okay." 822 00:45:14,095 --> 00:45:17,632 "Well, I've made my money with Cream and Blind Faith, 823 00:45:17,632 --> 00:45:21,002 So I will pay the band all the money." 824 00:45:21,002 --> 00:45:23,438 Just ridiculously expensive... Hotel bills, 825 00:45:23,438 --> 00:45:25,574 The transportation, the wages. 826 00:45:25,574 --> 00:45:28,943 The name came from the air force section 827 00:45:28,943 --> 00:45:33,181 Of the Duke Ellington Band, which was the junkie section. 828 00:45:33,181 --> 00:45:34,849 It really was an air force. 829 00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:37,752 I think somebody said that they were flying at 30,000 feet, 830 00:45:37,752 --> 00:45:39,288 I think it was. [Laughs] 831 00:45:39,288 --> 00:45:40,922 It was a very high band. 832 00:45:40,922 --> 00:45:43,792 [Music continues] 833 00:45:43,792 --> 00:45:47,662 Now they're saying Air force was some kind of a fusion band. 834 00:45:47,662 --> 00:45:49,998 I don't know what the fuck that is. 835 00:45:49,998 --> 00:45:55,304 You can't put music in boxes, especially my music. 836 00:45:55,304 --> 00:45:57,639 [Music ends] 837 00:46:03,412 --> 00:46:05,447 It was really exciting. 838 00:46:05,447 --> 00:46:07,148 I thought it was gonna last forever. 839 00:46:07,148 --> 00:46:11,786 But, you know, Ginger's bands have tended to be like that. 840 00:46:11,786 --> 00:46:13,187 Didn't they? 841 00:46:13,187 --> 00:46:14,623 Like what? 842 00:46:14,623 --> 00:46:16,491 You hear them, you think, "This is fabulous." 843 00:46:16,491 --> 00:46:17,926 It's gonna go on forever." 844 00:46:17,926 --> 00:46:19,428 And it lasts a week. 845 00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:22,431 Maybe that's just part of being him, you know? 846 00:46:22,431 --> 00:46:24,165 I don't know. 847 00:46:24,165 --> 00:46:27,769 Because of his fame from Cream and Blind Faith, 848 00:46:27,769 --> 00:46:29,504 You know, he was considered 849 00:46:29,504 --> 00:46:31,573 The great rock drummer of his generation. 850 00:46:31,573 --> 00:46:34,409 But as Ginger will tell you, he was a jazz drummer. 851 00:46:34,409 --> 00:46:38,179 The general public are so fucking dumb. 852 00:46:38,179 --> 00:46:43,685 That, you know, like, that anybody could think of Bonham 853 00:46:43,685 --> 00:46:48,657 Was anywhere near this kind of drummer I am, 854 00:46:48,657 --> 00:46:51,426 It's just extraordinary. 855 00:46:51,426 --> 00:46:53,928 Bonham had technique, 856 00:46:53,928 --> 00:46:57,699 But he couldn't swing a fucking sack of shit. 857 00:46:57,699 --> 00:47:00,369 Or Moonie, for that matter. 858 00:47:00,369 --> 00:47:04,873 I mean, if they were still alive today, ask them. 859 00:47:04,873 --> 00:47:07,041 [Laughs] 860 00:47:07,041 --> 00:47:08,377 When they think of Ginger, 861 00:47:08,377 --> 00:47:10,144 They think of Keith Moon and Bonham. 862 00:47:10,144 --> 00:47:12,747 No, no, no, no. 863 00:47:12,747 --> 00:47:15,350 Ginger was nothing like those players. 864 00:47:15,350 --> 00:47:17,952 His musical capabilities are full-spectrum. 865 00:47:17,952 --> 00:47:20,121 He can write and compose and arrange, 866 00:47:20,121 --> 00:47:22,824 And he has an ear, and he is harmonic. 867 00:47:22,824 --> 00:47:24,759 He's a fully formed musician. 868 00:47:24,759 --> 00:47:27,362 He wanted to be respected by the jazz drummers, 869 00:47:27,362 --> 00:47:29,230 So Ginger did these drum battles 870 00:47:29,230 --> 00:47:32,367 With the guys he looked up to, thought were the great drummers. 871 00:47:32,367 --> 00:47:34,569 [Drum solo] 872 00:47:37,506 --> 00:47:39,374 [Whistling] 873 00:47:43,645 --> 00:47:45,714 [Drumming continues] 874 00:48:12,941 --> 00:48:14,809 [Crowd cheering] 875 00:48:21,483 --> 00:48:23,685 [Cheers and applause] 876 00:48:32,293 --> 00:48:33,662 [Applause] 877 00:48:33,662 --> 00:48:35,730 What always happens is you end up, 878 00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:37,599 If you're playing with a good guy, 879 00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:39,434 You end up playing together. 880 00:49:06,227 --> 00:49:08,497 [Drumming continues] 881 00:49:09,764 --> 00:49:12,667 [Cheers and applause] 882 00:49:14,569 --> 00:49:16,771 By him taking all these guys on... 883 00:49:16,771 --> 00:49:19,741 And nobody else really did in the "rock world"... 884 00:49:19,741 --> 00:49:23,745 He was considered to be in that elite echelon 885 00:49:23,745 --> 00:49:26,080 Of great jazz drummers, which, ultimately, 886 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,149 That's what he considered himself to be... 887 00:49:28,149 --> 00:49:30,819 The great jazz drummer of his generation. 888 00:49:30,819 --> 00:49:33,755 [British accent] Not a fucking rock drummer. 889 00:49:33,755 --> 00:49:36,958 So, here you are, at the height of your career. 890 00:49:36,958 --> 00:49:39,427 You've battled all the greatest drummers. 891 00:49:39,427 --> 00:49:41,095 You've become a bandleader. 892 00:49:41,095 --> 00:49:44,032 [Laughing] And you decide to go to Africa. 893 00:49:44,032 --> 00:49:45,800 Oh, God. 894 00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:55,309 Way back, when Phil turned me on to all the African drummers, 895 00:49:55,309 --> 00:50:03,918 It was obviously very high on my priorities to go to Africa. 896 00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:08,356 Ginger says, "How do you feel about filming me" 897 00:50:08,356 --> 00:50:09,591 Going across the Sahara?" 898 00:50:09,591 --> 00:50:11,425 And I said, "How are you proposing 899 00:50:11,425 --> 00:50:13,061 To go across the Sahara, Ginger?" 900 00:50:13,061 --> 00:50:14,663 And he said, "I'm gonna drive." 901 00:50:14,663 --> 00:50:17,732 * Ah-ah-ah-ah * 902 00:50:17,732 --> 00:50:20,735 * Ah-ah-ah * 903 00:50:20,735 --> 00:50:24,205 * Ah-ah-ah-ah * 904 00:50:24,205 --> 00:50:25,473 * Ah-ah-ah * 905 00:50:25,473 --> 00:50:27,976 [Man singing in native language] 906 00:50:30,278 --> 00:50:33,682 * Ah-ah-ah * 907 00:50:33,682 --> 00:50:36,551 * Ah-ah-ah * 908 00:50:36,551 --> 00:50:39,520 * Ah-ah-ah * 909 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,990 [Singing continues] 910 00:50:48,362 --> 00:50:52,133 There was that questing spirit of a true artist there. 911 00:50:52,133 --> 00:50:54,969 It was news that Ginger dropped out, 912 00:50:54,969 --> 00:50:57,171 Or he went following the groove. 913 00:50:57,171 --> 00:50:58,940 [Music continues] 914 00:51:01,542 --> 00:51:03,778 From Africa. 915 00:51:03,778 --> 00:51:05,980 [Drums playing] 916 00:51:08,049 --> 00:51:11,886 He predates everybody else who later on said, 917 00:51:11,886 --> 00:51:14,388 "We discovered the sounds of Africa." 918 00:51:14,388 --> 00:51:18,392 The only person that made me cry before playing was Phil, 919 00:51:18,392 --> 00:51:20,128 And these guys had me crying, 920 00:51:20,128 --> 00:51:24,465 Because the time things they were doing were just so subtle. 921 00:51:24,465 --> 00:51:27,135 This is why I went to Africa. 922 00:51:31,339 --> 00:51:34,108 When I arrived in Nigeria, 923 00:51:34,108 --> 00:51:38,713 I went straight to the Afro Spot. 924 00:51:38,713 --> 00:51:41,449 And there was Fela playing onstage. 925 00:51:41,449 --> 00:51:47,021 And it was just like, "Wow, man. This is cool." 926 00:51:47,021 --> 00:51:49,223 [Up-tempo music playing] 927 00:51:52,093 --> 00:51:57,832 It was unlike anything anybody else was playing. 928 00:51:57,832 --> 00:52:00,301 Fela was like, "That's Ginger Baker! 929 00:52:00,301 --> 00:52:02,637 That's Ginger Baker!" 930 00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:06,174 Who is Fela? 931 00:52:06,174 --> 00:52:09,543 Some say he's the greatest musician in Africa, 932 00:52:09,543 --> 00:52:13,281 Others that he's a prophet, still others that he's a rebel, 933 00:52:13,281 --> 00:52:14,515 A revolutionary tribune. 934 00:52:14,515 --> 00:52:17,819 Fela was one of the most important, influential, 935 00:52:17,819 --> 00:52:20,822 And courageous musicians of the 20th century. 936 00:52:20,822 --> 00:52:22,857 [Music continues] 937 00:52:22,857 --> 00:52:24,926 Ginger got the opportunity 938 00:52:24,926 --> 00:52:27,561 To sit in the drum chair for a while 939 00:52:27,561 --> 00:52:28,797 Of one of the greatest bands 940 00:52:28,797 --> 00:52:30,899 Ever to play African popular music. 941 00:52:34,202 --> 00:52:36,938 [Singing in native language] 942 00:52:43,011 --> 00:52:46,547 Ginger was very close to everybody... 943 00:52:46,547 --> 00:52:49,550 The girls, my father, the band. 944 00:52:49,550 --> 00:52:52,286 It was a color-blind situation. 945 00:52:52,286 --> 00:52:56,024 They smoked together, they drank together, had women together. 946 00:52:56,024 --> 00:52:58,026 They played together... Everything together. 947 00:52:58,026 --> 00:53:00,228 [Music continues] 948 00:53:27,455 --> 00:53:31,059 The first... or only Western musician to go out there 949 00:53:31,059 --> 00:53:33,394 And immerse himself and live in it, 950 00:53:33,394 --> 00:53:36,798 In the squalor of it, was Ginger. 951 00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:44,939 And this studio became the first 16-track studio 952 00:53:44,939 --> 00:53:47,608 We've got in our country. 953 00:53:47,608 --> 00:53:49,543 Fela stopped using EMI 954 00:53:49,543 --> 00:53:53,414 And started to use Ginger Baker's studio. 955 00:53:53,414 --> 00:53:58,086 Now, who leaves England to go and record in Lagos? 956 00:53:58,086 --> 00:54:02,323 Africa at that time in Nigeria was an absolute hotbed 957 00:54:02,323 --> 00:54:09,030 Of revolution, of death, of unaccountable violence. 958 00:54:09,898 --> 00:54:14,035 It was a great place to be in those days. 959 00:54:14,035 --> 00:54:16,938 [Mid-tempo rock music plays] 960 00:54:18,439 --> 00:54:22,310 I was in Africa for a period of six years. 961 00:54:22,310 --> 00:54:25,713 It was sort of like the "flower power" days 962 00:54:25,713 --> 00:54:27,782 In Nigeria, you know? 963 00:54:27,782 --> 00:54:30,885 You can't imagine the '70s in Nigeria, 964 00:54:30,885 --> 00:54:33,888 How much fun they all had. 965 00:54:33,888 --> 00:54:36,090 [Music continues] 966 00:54:41,395 --> 00:54:44,866 Fela... We used to call him the black president, 967 00:54:44,866 --> 00:54:47,335 And he formed the Calakuta Party. 968 00:54:47,335 --> 00:54:51,639 And we all used to sit around a table the shape of Africa, 969 00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:54,408 And I was elected one of the party. 970 00:54:54,408 --> 00:54:55,743 He was just cool. 971 00:54:55,743 --> 00:54:57,045 He was real cool. 972 00:54:57,045 --> 00:54:58,980 Ginger's a cool white boy. 973 00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:00,882 Meanwhile, no one in Europe knew 974 00:55:00,882 --> 00:55:02,817 What the fuck was going on there. 975 00:55:02,817 --> 00:55:04,018 Nobody what? 976 00:55:04,018 --> 00:55:05,419 Nobody in Europe, 977 00:55:05,419 --> 00:55:07,822 All the people you had left behind, you know? 978 00:55:07,822 --> 00:55:10,424 What people I'd left behind? 979 00:55:11,625 --> 00:55:14,028 I think he just goes. 980 00:55:14,028 --> 00:55:15,696 That's a great thing in music. 981 00:55:15,696 --> 00:55:18,199 You don't want to be thinking too much when you're playing. 982 00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:21,135 He who hesitates is lost. 983 00:55:21,135 --> 00:55:23,037 Just go. 984 00:55:23,037 --> 00:55:26,040 He really desperately wanted a boy. 985 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,343 And when he got a boy, he was awful to him. 986 00:55:29,343 --> 00:55:32,013 He said some nasty things to my mom. 987 00:55:33,047 --> 00:55:36,484 Like, "I wish I had black kids," or something. 988 00:55:36,484 --> 00:55:38,586 Were you guys still in contact with him? 989 00:55:38,586 --> 00:55:39,720 Yeah, yeah. 990 00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:40,989 He would just call you? 991 00:55:40,989 --> 00:55:44,658 Yeah. Like, "Hello. I'm in prison." 992 00:55:44,658 --> 00:55:46,060 "Fine." 993 00:55:46,060 --> 00:55:49,330 I was approached by Range Rover. 994 00:55:49,330 --> 00:55:55,136 Would I join them in a three-car team for this Show 1000 rally? 995 00:55:55,136 --> 00:55:57,939 Anyway, I arrived at the checkpoint 996 00:55:57,939 --> 00:56:00,608 And did 180 and came in backwards. 997 00:56:00,608 --> 00:56:03,544 And I heard this voice say, "Bloody hell! 998 00:56:03,544 --> 00:56:06,247 The way you drive, you should play polo." 999 00:56:06,247 --> 00:56:07,916 And I shouted out of the window, 1000 00:56:07,916 --> 00:56:10,084 "You've got to be bloody kidding." 1001 00:56:10,084 --> 00:56:12,486 He said, "Okay, Baker. Come with me." 1002 00:56:12,486 --> 00:56:14,022 So off we go. 1003 00:56:14,022 --> 00:56:15,823 And where do we go? 1004 00:56:15,823 --> 00:56:17,625 Lagos Polo Club. 1005 00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:22,030 And I've already downed about eight or nine Bacardi and Cokes, 1006 00:56:22,030 --> 00:56:24,899 And Colin comes up to me and says, "Right, Baker." 1007 00:56:24,899 --> 00:56:27,001 It's time you got on a horse." 1008 00:56:27,001 --> 00:56:30,238 And Colin gets out a whip and goes whack! 1009 00:56:30,238 --> 00:56:34,708 Boom! It's off like fucking 900 miles an hour. 1010 00:56:34,708 --> 00:56:36,310 Absolutely full gallop. 1011 00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:39,280 My sunglasses were around one side of my face, 1012 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,683 And my beard's around the other, but I was still on the horse. 1013 00:56:42,683 --> 00:56:45,586 And I said, "Where's the fucking brakes, Colin?" 1014 00:56:45,586 --> 00:56:47,488 [Laughs] 1015 00:56:47,488 --> 00:56:50,591 So I'd found an old pair of boots 1016 00:56:50,591 --> 00:56:55,596 And an old polo stick and a hat, and I became a poloist. 1017 00:56:55,596 --> 00:56:57,398 [Laughs] 1018 00:56:57,398 --> 00:56:58,799 [Drums playing] 1019 00:56:58,799 --> 00:57:00,168 The class of Nigerians 1020 00:57:00,168 --> 00:57:03,804 That would have belonged to the Lagos Polo Club 1021 00:57:03,804 --> 00:57:05,573 Were very elite people, 1022 00:57:05,573 --> 00:57:08,109 People that Fela would dismiss as having a so-called 1023 00:57:08,109 --> 00:57:09,677 "Colonial mentality." 1024 00:57:09,677 --> 00:57:11,412 Those were definitely the people 1025 00:57:11,412 --> 00:57:14,848 That Fela was singing against in the 1970s. 1026 00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:16,117 But it was later in the '70s 1027 00:57:16,117 --> 00:57:17,818 When Fela really got more radicalized 1028 00:57:17,818 --> 00:57:20,354 And began to live the life of a musical dissident. 1029 00:57:20,354 --> 00:57:22,790 All this nonsense hanging around here. 1030 00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:24,158 They sit there in cars, man! 1031 00:57:24,158 --> 00:57:27,928 Fela took on the government, the army. 1032 00:57:27,928 --> 00:57:32,000 He was determined to become president. 1033 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,237 All the government top guys played polo, 1034 00:57:36,237 --> 00:57:39,440 So they were always at the Lagos Polo Club. 1035 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,609 So I was playing polo there 1036 00:57:41,609 --> 00:57:45,646 And hanging out with, as it were, Fela's enemies. 1037 00:57:45,646 --> 00:57:49,317 And a lot of the people on Fela's committee 1038 00:57:49,317 --> 00:57:56,157 Didn't like that and soured Fela's mind against me. 1039 00:57:56,157 --> 00:57:58,559 I was pretty upset at the time. 1040 00:57:58,559 --> 00:57:59,927 About what? 1041 00:57:59,927 --> 00:58:06,334 Well, that Fela wouldn't play with me, with his band. 1042 00:58:06,334 --> 00:58:09,470 On Friday, February 18, 1977, 1043 00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:12,073 A thousand-odd soldiers surround Calakuta, 1044 00:58:12,073 --> 00:58:13,674 Machine guns at the ready. 1045 00:58:13,674 --> 00:58:14,975 They plunder the house. 1046 00:58:14,975 --> 00:58:17,945 Their clubs spare neither pregnant women nor children. 1047 00:58:17,945 --> 00:58:20,214 Fela himself is seriously beaten. 1048 00:58:20,214 --> 00:58:23,017 Fela and his tribe find themselves in prison. 1049 00:58:23,017 --> 00:58:25,153 It was starting to go wrong, yeah. 1050 00:58:25,153 --> 00:58:28,222 But, I mean, I left Nigeria 1051 00:58:28,222 --> 00:58:31,059 Because I lost my studio, really. 1052 00:58:31,059 --> 00:58:33,327 It took us three years to build it. 1053 00:58:33,327 --> 00:58:35,963 It's been open just over two years now. 1054 00:58:35,963 --> 00:58:37,565 It's coming along great. 1055 00:58:45,873 --> 00:58:48,242 Presumably, there must be a lot of music there. 1056 00:58:48,242 --> 00:58:50,378 Yeah. We kept pretty busy. 1057 00:58:50,378 --> 00:58:52,713 We were working all the time, yeah. 1058 00:58:52,713 --> 00:58:56,184 I think as a businessperson, he's a walking disaster area. 1059 00:58:56,184 --> 00:59:00,854 Ginger's out there, discovering a whole new world of sound... 1060 00:59:00,854 --> 00:59:02,656 Literally a whole new world of sound... 1061 00:59:02,656 --> 00:59:07,328 And recording it in good faith, not even blind faith. 1062 00:59:07,328 --> 00:59:09,097 Along comes a gangster record company 1063 00:59:09,097 --> 00:59:11,031 And says, "We can take advantage of that." 1064 00:59:11,031 --> 00:59:12,733 And Ginger was just taken for a ride. 1065 00:59:12,733 --> 00:59:15,136 He said, "You can't build a studio here. 1066 00:59:15,136 --> 00:59:17,004 This is our territory." 1067 00:59:17,004 --> 00:59:20,408 They banned all the artists they had under contract 1068 00:59:20,408 --> 00:59:23,944 From using my studio. 1069 00:59:23,944 --> 00:59:26,247 I told him to fuck off. 1070 00:59:30,017 --> 00:59:31,419 So shortly after that, 1071 00:59:31,419 --> 00:59:34,555 Three armed soldiers entered the studio. 1072 00:59:34,555 --> 00:59:37,525 So I just leapt out of the room, over the balcony, 1073 00:59:37,525 --> 00:59:43,631 Got in the Range Rover, and went straight towards the road. 1074 00:59:43,631 --> 00:59:44,998 [Gunshots] 1075 00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:48,068 I could hear all these gunshots and ricochets going on 1076 00:59:48,068 --> 00:59:50,704 Where the police are trying to shoot me. 1077 00:59:50,704 --> 00:59:53,141 Why did Ginger leave? 1078 00:59:53,141 --> 00:59:55,243 I just know things were not going right. 1079 00:59:55,243 --> 00:59:59,780 But when he left, Fela and him lost contact. 1080 01:00:36,684 --> 01:00:40,087 You had been off the scene in Africa for so many years. 1081 01:00:40,087 --> 01:00:43,691 You must have missed being a rock star to a certain extent. 1082 01:00:43,691 --> 01:00:45,626 No, I didn't. 1083 01:00:46,627 --> 01:00:51,432 I came back to England to play with the Gurvitz brothers, 1084 01:00:51,432 --> 01:00:53,834 For which I got some money. 1085 01:00:53,834 --> 01:00:59,006 I'd just lost a fortune, so it was a matter of doing some work. 1086 01:00:59,740 --> 01:01:02,910 That was really all he could get, wasn't it? 1087 01:01:02,910 --> 01:01:05,513 At that time, nobody wanted to work with him. 1088 01:01:06,947 --> 01:01:09,016 * Now is the time * 1089 01:01:09,016 --> 01:01:11,051 * Get it all together * 1090 01:01:11,051 --> 01:01:13,887 Shut up, you bloody fool! 1091 01:01:13,887 --> 01:01:15,155 * Now is the time * 1092 01:01:15,155 --> 01:01:17,991 - Hey! - * Put yourself together * 1093 01:01:17,991 --> 01:01:23,497 Yeah, I grew up in the downward spiral of his life, 1094 01:01:23,497 --> 01:01:25,866 Everything collapsing and falling apart. 1095 01:01:25,866 --> 01:01:30,438 The mistake I made was letting polo take over 1096 01:01:30,438 --> 01:01:32,806 From thinking about work. 1097 01:01:32,806 --> 01:01:36,610 The tax people saw this film the BBC did 1098 01:01:36,610 --> 01:01:40,614 Of these horses arriving and gave the impression 1099 01:01:40,614 --> 01:01:42,883 That I'd got a hell of a lot of money. 1100 01:01:42,883 --> 01:01:47,688 Only this week, 30 polo ponies arrived from Argentina. 1101 01:01:47,688 --> 01:01:51,091 This air shipment guarantees Ginger Baker's commitment 1102 01:01:51,091 --> 01:01:54,828 To a sport that stands for everything he isn't. 1103 01:01:54,828 --> 01:01:57,665 I went absolutely broke. 1104 01:01:57,665 --> 01:02:02,703 It was a very bad time altogether. 1105 01:02:02,703 --> 01:02:08,075 He left my mom for my first boyfriend's sister. 1106 01:02:08,576 --> 01:02:12,880 That was his second wife, was my first boyfriend's sister. 1107 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,083 There's a good idea! 1108 01:02:16,083 --> 01:02:17,718 She was 18, you know? 1109 01:02:17,718 --> 01:02:19,720 [Laughs] 1110 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,623 Well, maybe 17. I don't know. 1111 01:02:22,623 --> 01:02:25,192 She was still going to school. 1112 01:02:25,926 --> 01:02:29,463 She was a very naughty-type girl, yeah. 1113 01:02:31,299 --> 01:02:35,068 Very sexy-type girl. 1114 01:02:35,068 --> 01:02:37,405 * Powder blues * 1115 01:02:41,975 --> 01:02:46,414 The tax people go, "You owe us, you know, £150,000." 1116 01:02:46,414 --> 01:02:48,982 And it's like, you know, he doesn't have £150,000, 1117 01:02:48,982 --> 01:02:50,718 So they took the house. 1118 01:02:50,718 --> 01:02:52,586 We'd lived in that house all our lives. 1119 01:02:52,586 --> 01:02:54,154 And then one day you come home 1120 01:02:54,154 --> 01:02:55,723 And there's a whole load of police 1121 01:02:55,723 --> 01:02:57,224 And a whole load of bailiffs, 1122 01:02:57,224 --> 01:02:59,226 And they just won't let you back into your house. 1123 01:02:59,226 --> 01:03:01,762 And they just take everything that you've ever owned. 1124 01:03:01,762 --> 01:03:03,631 I just, you know, took my drums 1125 01:03:03,631 --> 01:03:06,634 And went and lived on the streets, lived in squats. 1126 01:03:06,634 --> 01:03:09,102 You know, I used to tie my drums to my hands 1127 01:03:09,102 --> 01:03:12,906 When I went to sleep so that no one could take them. 1128 01:03:12,906 --> 01:03:15,242 You know, I don't think he should've had a family. 1129 01:03:15,242 --> 01:03:17,645 I think he would have been way better off in his life 1130 01:03:17,645 --> 01:03:20,814 If he'd never had kids and just, you know, did his thing. 1131 01:03:22,182 --> 01:03:25,753 He would have left a lot less of a mess behind. 1132 01:03:27,020 --> 01:03:30,424 Most of the time Ginger was with Baker Gurvitz Army, 1133 01:03:30,424 --> 01:03:32,793 He wasn't really on the hard stuff. 1134 01:03:32,793 --> 01:03:33,861 Oh, yeah. 1135 01:03:33,861 --> 01:03:38,932 I'm a lot, you know... better in myself. 1136 01:03:38,932 --> 01:03:41,234 Fit and well, if you like, you know? 1137 01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:42,870 The hard stuff came back 1138 01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:45,673 In the recording of "Hearts on Fire." 1139 01:03:45,673 --> 01:03:48,942 [Mid-tempo rock music plays] 1140 01:03:54,281 --> 01:03:59,052 It was sort of like a pretty disastrous period, 1141 01:03:59,052 --> 01:04:01,589 So I got back into using. 1142 01:04:01,589 --> 01:04:03,357 And that's when you sort of realize 1143 01:04:03,357 --> 01:04:08,295 Your idols have feet of clay, the slight inkling coming in 1144 01:04:08,295 --> 01:04:10,764 That this person isn't in control. 1145 01:04:10,764 --> 01:04:14,301 The cameraman's in control. 1146 01:04:14,301 --> 01:04:16,370 Hello. 1147 01:04:16,370 --> 01:04:18,171 Um... 1148 01:04:18,171 --> 01:04:20,073 What were you saying? 1149 01:04:20,073 --> 01:04:22,376 [Music continues] 1150 01:04:41,328 --> 01:04:43,731 [Guitar strums, feedback rumbles] 1151 01:04:43,731 --> 01:04:46,166 Jeff, get us a glass of wine, will you? 1152 01:04:46,166 --> 01:04:48,502 [Clattering] 1153 01:04:48,502 --> 01:04:51,171 Fucking hell, man. I tried hard. 1154 01:04:51,171 --> 01:04:52,940 [Tape rewinds] 1155 01:04:52,940 --> 01:04:57,077 I'd decided, "I'd better get away from anybody I know" 1156 01:04:57,077 --> 01:04:59,747 If I'm ever going to get straight." 1157 01:04:59,747 --> 01:05:03,150 So I decided to go to Italy. 1158 01:05:03,150 --> 01:05:05,753 I went to Italy with Sarah, 1159 01:05:05,753 --> 01:05:09,490 Living on this place right on top of a fucking mountain, 1160 01:05:09,490 --> 01:05:12,626 And I've never lived in England since. 1161 01:05:12,626 --> 01:05:14,462 I didn't know anybody. 1162 01:05:14,462 --> 01:05:16,630 I didn't even speak Italian. 1163 01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:20,100 And the house was falling down. 1164 01:05:20,100 --> 01:05:23,136 I met him in '86, 1165 01:05:23,136 --> 01:05:27,140 And I was asked to find him by a singer called Johnny Rotten, 1166 01:05:27,140 --> 01:05:28,909 Who was in The Sex Pistols. 1167 01:05:28,909 --> 01:05:33,313 He was living in a pretty obscure situation, 1168 01:05:33,313 --> 01:05:34,982 Rough situation. 1169 01:05:34,982 --> 01:05:38,185 And in the house, which was completely in kind of shambles, 1170 01:05:38,185 --> 01:05:42,590 I think there was two horses and seven dogs, no electricity, 1171 01:05:42,590 --> 01:05:44,625 And a room that overlooked the mountain 1172 01:05:44,625 --> 01:05:46,594 With a drum kit in it... Only a drum kit. 1173 01:05:46,594 --> 01:05:50,030 But when he played in that room and it echoed over the hills, 1174 01:05:50,030 --> 01:05:53,534 You could hear people like five miles away, screaming, 1175 01:05:53,534 --> 01:05:55,302 "Ginger! 'Wheels of fire'!" 1176 01:05:55,302 --> 01:05:59,272 Sarah obviously married him because she wanted a rock star. 1177 01:05:59,272 --> 01:06:00,708 Hey, you know? 1178 01:06:00,708 --> 01:06:03,210 And he took her to this little bum-fuck town, 1179 01:06:03,210 --> 01:06:05,479 And she was like, "Well, what the hell?" you know? 1180 01:06:05,479 --> 01:06:07,014 "Where's all the rock-star shit?" 1181 01:06:07,014 --> 01:06:09,550 And when I went out there with some young people, 1182 01:06:09,550 --> 01:06:11,919 She went off with one of them, and that was the end of that. 1183 01:06:11,919 --> 01:06:13,487 And he was absolutely devastated, 1184 01:06:13,487 --> 01:06:17,224 Because he couldn't handle his own medicine, unfortunately. 1185 01:06:18,959 --> 01:06:21,629 Was he heartbroken? Oh, yeah. 1186 01:06:21,629 --> 01:06:24,031 Yeah. She fucked him good, yeah. 1187 01:06:24,031 --> 01:06:26,466 I was completely fucking destroyed. 1188 01:06:26,466 --> 01:06:31,071 I was on my own with all my dogs and a couple of horses. 1189 01:06:32,172 --> 01:06:34,374 [Chuckles] 1190 01:06:34,374 --> 01:06:37,711 I mean, it was terrible. 1191 01:06:37,711 --> 01:06:40,147 I went out there to get drum lessons and stuff. 1192 01:06:40,147 --> 01:06:41,515 He had no money, 1193 01:06:41,515 --> 01:06:44,384 So he couldn't get me a plane ticket back to England. 1194 01:06:44,384 --> 01:06:45,986 So we had to do this gig. 1195 01:06:45,986 --> 01:06:48,689 So I got really, really sick, right, the day of the gig. 1196 01:06:48,689 --> 01:06:50,991 I was sitting on a chair, and I was throwing up, 1197 01:06:50,991 --> 01:06:52,693 And I was just, like, a really bad way. 1198 01:06:52,693 --> 01:06:54,728 I was like, "I don't know if I can play." 1199 01:06:54,728 --> 01:06:57,598 So, you know, he chops out a line of cocaine. 1200 01:06:57,598 --> 01:06:58,866 "Take this." 1201 01:06:58,866 --> 01:07:00,801 I'd never done cocaine before, you know? 1202 01:07:00,801 --> 01:07:03,070 Like, "I'm 15 years old," you know? 1203 01:07:03,070 --> 01:07:05,305 So I ended up taking this line of cocaine. 1204 01:07:05,305 --> 01:07:06,874 Played the gig fine. 1205 01:07:06,874 --> 01:07:10,143 Somehow, it just, like, you know, makes you feel good. 1206 01:07:10,143 --> 01:07:14,047 So then he put me on a coach back to England, you know, 1207 01:07:14,047 --> 01:07:15,616 And he took the rest of the money 1208 01:07:15,616 --> 01:07:17,050 And wouldn't get me a plane ticket. 1209 01:07:17,050 --> 01:07:19,052 And we made good money at that gig. 1210 01:07:19,052 --> 01:07:21,121 [Dog barking] 1211 01:07:30,898 --> 01:07:36,169 I started getting these letters from some guy in L.A. 1212 01:07:36,169 --> 01:07:37,805 He kept saying, "Oh, man", 1213 01:07:37,805 --> 01:07:40,974 You've got a fantastic career in films." 1214 01:07:40,974 --> 01:07:43,276 [Gasps] 1215 01:07:43,276 --> 01:07:45,713 So I went to California. 1216 01:07:45,713 --> 01:07:48,081 [Drums playing] 1217 01:07:52,786 --> 01:07:56,389 "The Nasty Boys" was the most extraordinary, 1218 01:07:56,389 --> 01:07:59,359 Stupid thing I've ever seen. 1219 01:07:59,359 --> 01:08:01,528 [Overdubbed scream] 1220 01:08:01,528 --> 01:08:02,896 "Aah!" 1221 01:08:02,896 --> 01:08:05,733 Hollywood. Bah. 1222 01:08:05,733 --> 01:08:07,935 [Sighs] That was the end of it for me. 1223 01:08:07,935 --> 01:08:09,903 I mean, it was just so stupid. 1224 01:08:09,903 --> 01:08:13,073 Last one on is a rotten egg. 1225 01:08:13,073 --> 01:08:14,842 I hadn't seen him for years. 1226 01:08:14,842 --> 01:08:17,244 When I arrived in L.A., I didn't recognize him, 1227 01:08:17,244 --> 01:08:19,312 'Cause he looked like an old man. 1228 01:08:19,312 --> 01:08:21,014 And I thought, "Where's my dad?" 1229 01:08:21,014 --> 01:08:24,685 He actually put an ad on Music Connection magazine 1230 01:08:24,685 --> 01:08:26,153 Looking for a job. 1231 01:08:26,153 --> 01:08:27,721 "Famous drummer from the '60s," 1232 01:08:27,721 --> 01:08:29,289 You know, "Ginger Baker from Cream, 1233 01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:31,759 Looking for a band to play with." 1234 01:08:33,426 --> 01:08:35,495 Are you ready to go? 1235 01:08:35,495 --> 01:08:39,399 Okay. So this is a drum kit, and I'm Ginger Baker. 1236 01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,769 You hold the drumstick thusly, 1237 01:08:41,769 --> 01:08:45,105 And you play the stick like that. 1238 01:08:45,105 --> 01:08:47,841 The 1960s were heady times for Ginger Baker. 1239 01:08:47,841 --> 01:08:49,176 He was a drummer 1240 01:08:49,176 --> 01:08:51,144 For some of rock music's most influential groups. 1241 01:08:51,144 --> 01:08:53,013 We visited Baker at the ranch he rents 1242 01:08:53,013 --> 01:08:56,116 In the California desert as he tries to come back. 1243 01:08:56,116 --> 01:08:58,786 Tell me about your relationship these days with Eric Clapton. 1244 01:08:58,786 --> 01:09:00,287 Do you still speak? 1245 01:09:00,287 --> 01:09:04,091 I don't have a lot in common with Eric nowadays. 1246 01:09:05,926 --> 01:09:08,862 He's sort of... 1247 01:09:09,997 --> 01:09:12,432 Changed considerably. 1248 01:09:12,432 --> 01:09:13,801 Ginger, the way he is 1249 01:09:13,801 --> 01:09:16,369 And the way, you know, his self-medication 1250 01:09:16,369 --> 01:09:19,206 And all of the kind of things that go on in his life, 1251 01:09:19,206 --> 01:09:23,043 I would find quite hard to be around for any length of time. 1252 01:09:23,043 --> 01:09:25,545 It was quite threatening, you know, to me 1253 01:09:25,545 --> 01:09:28,348 And I suppose what I would call my sobriety. 1254 01:09:28,348 --> 01:09:30,918 But I've always got time for him, you know, 1255 01:09:30,918 --> 01:09:32,720 And I know he knows that. 1256 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,089 There was nothing starlike about him when I first met him. 1257 01:09:36,089 --> 01:09:38,225 He was pretty much penniless when we met 1258 01:09:38,225 --> 01:09:42,429 And had spent everything to get his horses over to America. 1259 01:09:42,429 --> 01:09:43,764 I was pretty happy. 1260 01:09:43,764 --> 01:09:45,532 I was gonna be going into a master's program 1261 01:09:45,532 --> 01:09:47,134 And following medicine. 1262 01:09:47,134 --> 01:09:49,136 There was a lot of great stuff ahead of me. 1263 01:09:49,136 --> 01:09:52,305 And then I got a little derailed. 1264 01:09:52,305 --> 01:09:54,007 Was Karen a good person? 1265 01:09:56,977 --> 01:10:00,047 I don't want to discuss Karen. 1266 01:10:00,047 --> 01:10:03,917 He is somebody who needs to be cared for, 1267 01:10:03,917 --> 01:10:06,286 And maybe that's what was so attractive to me. 1268 01:10:06,286 --> 01:10:08,121 It was like, "I can help this person." 1269 01:10:08,121 --> 01:10:10,423 He was somebody really interesting to spend time with. 1270 01:10:10,423 --> 01:10:12,392 He started playing the drums, and actually, 1271 01:10:12,392 --> 01:10:15,929 That was the first time I really understood the drums. 1272 01:10:22,202 --> 01:10:24,171 Nobody wanted to play with him. 1273 01:10:24,171 --> 01:10:25,472 And this is L.A. 1274 01:10:25,472 --> 01:10:28,608 I mean, there should have been gigs everywhere for him. 1275 01:10:28,608 --> 01:10:32,212 People were just like, "Mm. No. It's too much trouble." 1276 01:10:34,147 --> 01:10:37,617 And then finally, he did join The Masters of Reality. 1277 01:10:37,617 --> 01:10:40,353 * John Brown, bring him down * 1278 01:10:40,353 --> 01:10:43,791 * Pull his body to the ground * 1279 01:10:43,791 --> 01:10:46,226 [Mid-tempo rock music plays] 1280 01:10:48,261 --> 01:10:51,364 It was really quite an enjoyable thing, 1281 01:10:51,364 --> 01:10:53,600 That Masters of Reality. 1282 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,537 They were trying to say it was heavy metal, which it wasn't. 1283 01:10:57,537 --> 01:11:02,442 It was music you couldn't put in a box, Jay. 1284 01:11:06,847 --> 01:11:09,349 "Sunrise on the Sufferbus." 1285 01:11:09,349 --> 01:11:12,085 Musician magazine simply calls "Sufferbus" 1286 01:11:12,085 --> 01:11:14,587 "The best rock album of the young decade." 1287 01:11:14,587 --> 01:11:17,524 When we were on tour with Alice In Chains, 1288 01:11:17,524 --> 01:11:18,992 I think it was a mismatch. 1289 01:11:18,992 --> 01:11:20,961 Most of the crowd to begin with 1290 01:11:20,961 --> 01:11:23,430 Didn't know who Ginger Baker was. 1291 01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:26,633 Kids in the front row with Megadeth T-shirts on 1292 01:11:26,633 --> 01:11:28,802 Throwing stuff at Ginger. 1293 01:11:28,802 --> 01:11:31,304 How much can a man take? 1294 01:11:31,304 --> 01:11:33,406 He was having to start all over again, 1295 01:11:33,406 --> 01:11:34,842 Just like a new musician. 1296 01:11:34,842 --> 01:11:37,744 And they were treating him like, "You know, you should be happy. 1297 01:11:37,744 --> 01:11:39,112 "We got you a tour bus. 1298 01:11:39,112 --> 01:11:40,713 A lot of musicians don't have tour buses." 1299 01:11:40,713 --> 01:11:44,717 And he's like, "I did this, you know, 30 years ago." 1300 01:11:44,717 --> 01:11:46,086 I don't want to do this again." 1301 01:11:46,086 --> 01:11:49,222 Do you think Nirvana is the new Cream? 1302 01:11:50,323 --> 01:11:54,427 He had gotten a taste of American music business, 1303 01:11:54,427 --> 01:11:58,231 Class of '93, and he spit it out. 1304 01:11:58,231 --> 01:12:00,834 And I don't fucking blame him one bit. 1305 01:12:00,834 --> 01:12:04,071 I didn't like L.A. at all. 1306 01:12:04,071 --> 01:12:06,806 He wasn't getting along with the whole polo community 1307 01:12:06,806 --> 01:12:08,375 In California at that time, 1308 01:12:08,375 --> 01:12:11,644 So he was just ready to move on and start all over again. 1309 01:12:11,644 --> 01:12:14,181 [Music continues] 1310 01:12:14,181 --> 01:12:16,850 When he left to come out here to Colorado, 1311 01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:18,618 Nobody wanted to play with him anymore. 1312 01:12:18,618 --> 01:12:21,922 So we started a polo club called Mile High Polo. 1313 01:12:21,922 --> 01:12:23,523 And that worked out beautifully, 1314 01:12:23,523 --> 01:12:25,825 Because he didn't have to go and play with other people. 1315 01:12:25,825 --> 01:12:27,127 They had to come play with him. 1316 01:12:27,127 --> 01:12:29,262 Here comes Ginger Baker. 1317 01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:30,563 Not only can he play drums, 1318 01:12:30,563 --> 01:12:32,665 But he can hit that ball down the field. 1319 01:12:32,665 --> 01:12:35,402 People would come out, bring their kids, bring their dogs. 1320 01:12:35,402 --> 01:12:37,938 We'd have polo and then jazz in the park. 1321 01:12:37,938 --> 01:12:41,774 He would get off the horse, come over in his polo uniform, 1322 01:12:41,774 --> 01:12:43,276 And sit down at the drums. 1323 01:12:43,276 --> 01:12:45,512 And then we'd just go into something from there. 1324 01:12:45,512 --> 01:12:47,780 So it was a pretty wild experience to see. 1325 01:12:47,780 --> 01:12:50,083 And you could feel the passion of both things. 1326 01:12:50,083 --> 01:12:52,385 [Up-tempo jazz playing] 1327 01:12:56,990 --> 01:13:03,296 DJQ20... It was probably the best band I had. 1328 01:13:03,296 --> 01:13:10,170 It was great playing jazz, again... the music I came from. 1329 01:13:10,170 --> 01:13:12,372 [Music continues] 1330 01:13:13,606 --> 01:13:16,176 Kofi was living with us at the time, 1331 01:13:16,176 --> 01:13:19,512 And we used to do a lot of drum things together. 1332 01:13:26,386 --> 01:13:28,288 He's got a prodigious technique. 1333 01:13:28,288 --> 01:13:30,723 He's got the most amazing technique. 1334 01:13:30,723 --> 01:13:32,659 He's a hell of a sweet kid. 1335 01:13:32,659 --> 01:13:35,595 It was the closest I ever got to my dad. 1336 01:13:35,595 --> 01:13:37,564 It was great fun. 1337 01:13:38,465 --> 01:13:40,600 And I actually got to play with my dad, 1338 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,536 And there was some form of bond going on. 1339 01:13:43,536 --> 01:13:46,039 I mean, I wish I could have done that my whole life. 1340 01:13:46,039 --> 01:13:48,008 It would've been great. 1341 01:14:04,958 --> 01:14:08,528 He comes out of jazz, plays rock, plays world music. 1342 01:14:08,528 --> 01:14:11,298 I just thought, "We should get some music together" 1343 01:14:11,298 --> 01:14:13,500 "That shows him as this major cat, 1344 01:14:13,500 --> 01:14:16,436 "Not, you know, a lesser light than Max Roach, 1345 01:14:16,436 --> 01:14:18,371 But his own personal music." 1346 01:14:18,371 --> 01:14:22,675 Ron so inspired Ginger, Ginger began to practice. 1347 01:14:22,675 --> 01:14:24,511 He began to rehearse. 1348 01:14:24,511 --> 01:14:26,313 Then, finally, they came to New York 1349 01:14:26,313 --> 01:14:28,215 And played a gig at the Iridium 1350 01:14:28,215 --> 01:14:31,418 And just blew the doors off the place. 1351 01:14:31,418 --> 01:14:33,720 It went down like a fucking bomb. 1352 01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,289 [Up-tempo jazz playing] 1353 01:14:41,661 --> 01:14:45,298 At the Iridium in New York, Max Roach came to the gig. 1354 01:14:45,298 --> 01:14:48,601 The first record he ever bought was Max Roach. 1355 01:14:48,601 --> 01:14:51,138 I did one of the best solos I've ever done 1356 01:14:51,138 --> 01:14:53,273 When Max was there. 1357 01:15:03,883 --> 01:15:06,819 [Cheers and applause] 1358 01:15:06,819 --> 01:15:09,156 I could see Ginger's face on the break. 1359 01:15:09,156 --> 01:15:10,657 Max hugged him. 1360 01:15:10,657 --> 01:15:13,560 It was like Max was saying, "Yeah. You're in here. 1361 01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:14,827 You're one of us." 1362 01:15:14,827 --> 01:15:18,498 He just had tears coming down his face, 1363 01:15:18,498 --> 01:15:22,369 Because he had achieved the pinnacle of jazz 1364 01:15:22,369 --> 01:15:25,205 For an improvising musician and a drummer. 1365 01:15:25,205 --> 01:15:28,275 He has a working band that can go toe-to-toe 1366 01:15:28,275 --> 01:15:31,678 With any band in New York, let alone planet Earth. 1367 01:15:31,678 --> 01:15:34,247 And he had not only been accepted, 1368 01:15:34,247 --> 01:15:37,917 But accepted as a peer and an equal. 1369 01:15:37,917 --> 01:15:40,687 The actual words Max said were, 1370 01:15:40,687 --> 01:15:44,657 "Jesus, Ginger plays like a nigger." 1371 01:15:44,657 --> 01:15:46,193 [Chuckles] 1372 01:15:46,193 --> 01:15:49,062 That, coming from someone like Max Roach, 1373 01:15:49,062 --> 01:15:54,934 Was an enormous compliment, you know? 1374 01:15:55,835 --> 01:15:59,906 Four drummers in my life that were absolute heroes. 1375 01:15:59,906 --> 01:16:02,375 Phil Seamen was the first one, 1376 01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:06,946 Max Roach, Art Blakey, and Elvin Jones. 1377 01:16:06,946 --> 01:16:10,717 All four of them became friends... 1378 01:16:10,717 --> 01:16:13,320 I mean friends. 1379 01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:14,821 Dear friends. 1380 01:16:14,821 --> 01:16:19,359 [Voice breaking] And that to me is worth... 1381 01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:22,562 More to me than anything in the world. 1382 01:16:22,562 --> 01:16:25,565 [Down-tempo jazz playing] 1383 01:16:44,517 --> 01:16:48,655 Anywhere Ginger goes, it's just a matter of time 1384 01:16:48,655 --> 01:16:51,858 Before there's gonna be controversy going on. 1385 01:16:52,825 --> 01:16:55,662 Somebody did a very nasty 1386 01:16:55,662 --> 01:17:00,032 And resulted in Liz getting arrested yesterday 1387 01:17:00,032 --> 01:17:02,735 By the immigration people. 1388 01:17:02,735 --> 01:17:05,172 He had an English groom that was living with us. 1389 01:17:05,172 --> 01:17:08,441 But because her immigration papers hadn't come through yet, 1390 01:17:08,441 --> 01:17:11,077 She was illegal, and so they took her away. 1391 01:17:11,077 --> 01:17:13,880 And I started going crazy. 1392 01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,617 And there was these two guys, Louis & Floorwax, 1393 01:17:17,617 --> 01:17:20,520 Who had a radio show that I was on. 1394 01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,955 He came on the radio show one morning 1395 01:17:22,955 --> 01:17:24,491 And started talking about it. 1396 01:17:24,491 --> 01:17:27,160 And he literally told everybody to fuck off. 1397 01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,596 I mean, this is a foul deed. 1398 01:17:29,596 --> 01:17:32,365 He said something about the United States of America 1399 01:17:32,365 --> 01:17:35,101 Can kiss my ass or blow me or something like that. 1400 01:17:35,101 --> 01:17:37,504 I think that's the last thing he said on our show. 1401 01:17:37,504 --> 01:17:39,406 I believe that was the final sentence. 1402 01:17:39,406 --> 01:17:41,208 So we ended the interview, 1403 01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,676 And next thing we heard, he was deported. 1404 01:17:43,676 --> 01:17:46,479 He thought he was seeing the writing on the wall. 1405 01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,381 I'm the next target now. 1406 01:17:48,381 --> 01:17:50,417 So he decided to grab his toys and leave 1407 01:17:50,417 --> 01:17:52,685 Before they could kick him out. 1408 01:17:52,685 --> 01:17:55,722 People are saying it's one of the best records he's ever done, 1409 01:17:55,722 --> 01:17:56,956 And then he left. 1410 01:17:56,956 --> 01:18:00,193 We just put this record out, and he just split. 1411 01:18:00,193 --> 01:18:02,128 Kofi would come over every single day 1412 01:18:02,128 --> 01:18:03,430 And play with his dad. 1413 01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:05,332 And then a couple days before he left, 1414 01:18:05,332 --> 01:18:07,600 Kind of like you with the cane to your face, 1415 01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,802 Ginger gave a verbal cane to Kofi's face 1416 01:18:09,802 --> 01:18:11,671 And just basically I think told him, 1417 01:18:11,671 --> 01:18:13,540 "You're a piece-of-shit drummer, 1418 01:18:13,540 --> 01:18:15,842 And you'll never be what I am, and you just can't get it." 1419 01:18:15,842 --> 01:18:21,080 And that was it... His way of saying goodbye. 1420 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:22,749 Well, I asked him. 1421 01:18:22,749 --> 01:18:25,685 I said, "Do you even care about anything I do or anything?" 1422 01:18:25,685 --> 01:18:27,620 He said, "No." So I said, "Fine." 1423 01:18:27,620 --> 01:18:28,821 So I got in my car and left. 1424 01:18:28,821 --> 01:18:30,823 That was the last time I saw him. 1425 01:18:30,823 --> 01:18:34,861 ["Can't Find My Way Home" plays] 1426 01:18:39,466 --> 01:18:42,369 I don't know if it's his ability to move on 1427 01:18:42,369 --> 01:18:44,704 Or his inability to stay. 1428 01:18:44,704 --> 01:18:49,709 I think he has trouble staying, and so moving on is his option. 1429 01:18:49,709 --> 01:18:51,611 I went with him on several of those moves, 1430 01:18:51,611 --> 01:18:53,380 And then the last one, I decided, "No." 1431 01:18:53,380 --> 01:18:56,249 I'm not up for one more of these." 1432 01:18:56,249 --> 01:18:59,319 [Indistinct talking on P.A.] 1433 01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,291 Maybe it goes back to when his dad died. 1434 01:19:04,291 --> 01:19:07,494 He was just kind of taken away abruptly, 1435 01:19:07,494 --> 01:19:09,762 And there was nothing he could do about it. 1436 01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:15,868 The only time I remember my dad clearly is on the train, 1437 01:19:15,868 --> 01:19:19,406 When he went off after his last leave. 1438 01:19:21,541 --> 01:19:25,412 And as the train pulled off, I broke away from my mom 1439 01:19:25,412 --> 01:19:27,414 And went running down the platform 1440 01:19:27,414 --> 01:19:30,417 After the train, crying. 1441 01:19:32,084 --> 01:19:37,023 It was like I knew he wasn't coming back. 1442 01:19:37,023 --> 01:19:39,626 [Music continues] 1443 01:19:39,626 --> 01:19:44,764 * Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh * 1444 01:19:44,764 --> 01:19:50,437 * But I can't find my way home * 1445 01:19:50,437 --> 01:19:54,140 * Can't, ooh, ooh, ooh * 1446 01:19:54,140 --> 01:19:55,442 * Ooh, ooh, ooh * 1447 01:19:55,442 --> 01:20:00,713 * But I can't find my way home * 1448 01:20:00,713 --> 01:20:06,018 * Still I can't find my way home * 1449 01:20:06,018 --> 01:20:11,624 * And I ain't done nothing wrong * 1450 01:20:11,624 --> 01:20:13,993 * But I can't find my way home * 1451 01:20:13,993 --> 01:20:17,296 20 years ago, South Africa was the last place 1452 01:20:17,296 --> 01:20:19,265 I would ever have dreamt of going, 1453 01:20:19,265 --> 01:20:21,534 Because I was so, you know, appalled 1454 01:20:21,534 --> 01:20:24,337 At the apartheid regime. 1455 01:20:24,337 --> 01:20:26,539 Well, now it's broken up. 1456 01:20:26,539 --> 01:20:28,775 South Africa has joined the rest of the world. 1457 01:20:28,775 --> 01:20:31,478 What are you gonna do musically when you get there? 1458 01:20:31,478 --> 01:20:33,012 Do you have plans? 1459 01:20:33,012 --> 01:20:36,015 I have more plans than you can dream of. 1460 01:20:36,015 --> 01:20:41,020 I mean, South Africa is very rich musically. 1461 01:20:41,020 --> 01:20:42,555 Sweethearts have done it all. 1462 01:20:42,555 --> 01:20:45,057 Fast broads, pretty, ambitious, 1463 01:20:45,057 --> 01:20:47,527 And after all the money they can get out of a guy. 1464 01:20:47,527 --> 01:20:51,631 Those deadly dames leave behind a trail of dead husbands. 1465 01:20:51,631 --> 01:20:53,766 If she has to kill somebody, she's going to. 1466 01:20:53,766 --> 01:20:56,436 Real-life femme fatales. 1467 01:20:56,436 --> 01:21:02,842 I've got some really cool music in my head. 1468 01:21:02,842 --> 01:21:06,979 I tried to do the polo and jazz thing here. 1469 01:21:07,747 --> 01:21:12,785 But there's not that many musicians over here. 1470 01:21:12,785 --> 01:21:14,854 But how much of it is about you playing 1471 01:21:14,854 --> 01:21:17,390 Because it's what you love doing? 1472 01:21:17,390 --> 01:21:18,925 Well, it depends. 1473 01:21:18,925 --> 01:21:23,563 To have a good time, it depends who you're playing with. 1474 01:21:24,664 --> 01:21:26,633 I mean, five years ago, 1475 01:21:26,633 --> 01:21:30,570 The Royal Albert Hall gigs were just fantastic. 1476 01:21:30,570 --> 01:21:32,672 [Applause] 1477 01:21:32,672 --> 01:21:36,476 [Introduction to "We're Going Wrong" plays] 1478 01:21:47,787 --> 01:21:50,857 They were just great. 1479 01:21:50,857 --> 01:21:53,493 It was great to play with Eric, 1480 01:21:53,493 --> 01:21:55,628 And it was great to play with Jack. 1481 01:21:55,628 --> 01:21:58,565 He did the reunion in 2005 with Cream, 1482 01:21:58,565 --> 01:21:59,932 Got a whole bunch of money, 1483 01:21:59,932 --> 01:22:05,404 And he got 24 horses he imported from the U.K. 1484 01:22:05,404 --> 01:22:08,641 Yeah. They cost him a fortune. 1485 01:22:08,641 --> 01:22:11,143 I've got 38 horses. 1486 01:22:12,044 --> 01:22:17,650 Horses don't let you down, nor do dogs. 1487 01:22:17,650 --> 01:22:20,853 They all know who I am. 1488 01:22:20,853 --> 01:22:23,456 He got $5 million or so from that reunion. 1489 01:22:23,456 --> 01:22:25,091 Now he's broke as shit. 1490 01:22:25,091 --> 01:22:27,827 He's blown all the money, and he's got nothing to show for it. 1491 01:22:30,463 --> 01:22:35,768 He will go out of his way, effortwise and timewise 1492 01:22:35,768 --> 01:22:39,305 And moneywise to do everything for his animals. 1493 01:22:39,305 --> 01:22:42,609 Sometimes I get the idea that the animals come first 1494 01:22:42,609 --> 01:22:46,145 And then the people. 1495 01:22:46,145 --> 01:22:47,614 * I * 1496 01:22:47,614 --> 01:22:53,052 * Found out today * 1497 01:22:53,486 --> 01:22:57,524 * We're going wrong * 1498 01:23:13,339 --> 01:23:15,808 [Music continues] 1499 01:23:20,046 --> 01:23:22,749 Do you think that you might have to go back 1500 01:23:22,749 --> 01:23:24,851 To playing the drums again? 1501 01:23:24,851 --> 01:23:26,185 Why? 1502 01:23:26,185 --> 01:23:28,588 Because the bank might foreclose on your property. 1503 01:23:28,588 --> 01:23:30,289 And besides, it's who you are. 1504 01:23:30,289 --> 01:23:35,494 Oh, for fuck's sake, why are we talking this shit?! 1505 01:23:36,062 --> 01:23:40,867 I think he's realizing that his time really has come 1506 01:23:40,867 --> 01:23:43,670 To finish playing the drums. 1507 01:23:46,338 --> 01:23:50,009 Dogs in general... Maybe horses as well, 1508 01:23:50,009 --> 01:23:55,414 But dogs specifically know when it's the end of the path. 1509 01:23:55,414 --> 01:23:56,883 They just give up. 1510 01:23:56,883 --> 01:23:59,986 You know, they know that this is the end of the road. 1511 01:23:59,986 --> 01:24:02,354 Obviously some of them have got fight in them. 1512 01:24:02,354 --> 01:24:03,690 Some doesn't. 1513 01:24:03,690 --> 01:24:08,494 But they realize that they've had their life. 1514 01:24:08,494 --> 01:24:10,563 They won't die here in front of you. 1515 01:24:10,563 --> 01:24:16,435 They will go underneath a bed, where it's private, quiet. 1516 01:24:16,435 --> 01:24:22,108 * We're going wrong * 1517 01:24:22,108 --> 01:24:23,876 * Yeah! * 1518 01:24:23,876 --> 01:24:26,646 [Cheers and applause] 1519 01:24:26,646 --> 01:24:28,881 Thank you. 1520 01:24:35,521 --> 01:24:39,191 You think you can take your glasses off for me, Ginger? 1521 01:24:40,059 --> 01:24:41,393 Why? 1522 01:24:41,393 --> 01:24:43,730 I'd like to see your eyes. 1523 01:24:57,744 --> 01:25:01,714 [Metal clanking] 1524 01:25:06,953 --> 01:25:11,758 I have terrible skepticism about musicians that die young 1525 01:25:11,758 --> 01:25:14,661 And create legends which are kind of mythical. 1526 01:25:14,661 --> 01:25:16,796 There's no myth about Ginger. 1527 01:25:16,796 --> 01:25:18,965 You know, he is exactly what he is. 1528 01:25:18,965 --> 01:25:23,035 And that's the thing that we value. 1529 01:25:26,839 --> 01:25:28,808 I don't know what he is. 1530 01:25:28,808 --> 01:25:31,543 He's his own person, and he's great. 1531 01:25:31,543 --> 01:25:34,881 He's definitely the best Ginger Baker in the world, 1532 01:25:34,881 --> 01:25:37,850 And I love him. 1533 01:25:45,692 --> 01:25:50,897 It was our last day of filming, and here I am, saying goodbye. 1534 01:25:50,897 --> 01:25:53,332 He said, "Where are you going now?" 1535 01:25:53,332 --> 01:25:56,803 And I said, "I'm gonna go talk to these people" 1536 01:25:56,803 --> 01:25:59,271 Who are a part of your life." 1537 01:25:59,271 --> 01:26:01,674 And he was like, "Nah." 1538 01:26:01,674 --> 01:26:03,075 No, you're not." 1539 01:26:03,075 --> 01:26:08,180 And I don't want any of them on my film! 1540 01:26:08,180 --> 01:26:09,916 [Rattling] 1541 01:26:09,916 --> 01:26:11,751 Are you really gonna hit me with the... 1542 01:26:11,751 --> 01:26:13,686 I fucking well am! 1543 01:26:13,686 --> 01:26:16,889 I'm gonna fucking put you in hospital! 1544 01:26:16,889 --> 01:26:18,490 Why? Oh, my God! 1545 01:26:18,490 --> 01:26:20,359 Yes! 1546 01:26:21,794 --> 01:26:25,898 Ginger Baker just hit me in the fucking nose. 1547 01:26:27,934 --> 01:26:29,769 At first I was really pissed. 1548 01:26:29,769 --> 01:26:32,839 Say you're sorry! No! 1549 01:26:33,472 --> 01:26:39,979 But then I realized the madman is alive and well, 1550 01:26:39,979 --> 01:26:44,450 With a precise message to all those who dare enter... 1551 01:26:44,450 --> 01:26:47,854 Beware of Mr. Baker. 1552 01:26:48,587 --> 01:26:50,957 [Rhythmic clapping] 1553 01:26:50,957 --> 01:26:53,760 [Chanting] Ginger Baker! Ginger Baker! 1554 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,695 Ginger Baker! Ginger Baker! 1555 01:26:56,829 --> 01:26:59,899 Ginger Baker! Ginger Baker! 1556 01:27:00,032 --> 01:27:01,433 Ginger Baker! 1557 01:27:01,433 --> 01:27:03,635 He seems to go through wars and bombs 1558 01:27:03,635 --> 01:27:07,139 And comes out the other end unscathed, amazingly. 1559 01:27:07,139 --> 01:27:08,875 And you've got to admire that. 1560 01:27:08,875 --> 01:27:10,409 You've got to admire that, 1561 01:27:10,409 --> 01:27:13,712 That he doesn't ever kind of give in and go, "Okay." 1562 01:27:13,712 --> 01:27:15,381 [Chanting continues] 1563 01:27:15,381 --> 01:27:21,087 The indomitable Ginger Baker always gets up off the canvas. 1564 01:27:21,087 --> 01:27:26,759 After selling his horses, his farm, and his Range Rover, 1565 01:27:26,759 --> 01:27:28,360 He goes back on the road 1566 01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:31,764 And to being the one thing that he's always been. 1567 01:27:31,764 --> 01:27:35,001 [Cheers and applause] 1568 01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:49,415 Do what you like. 1569 01:27:49,415 --> 01:27:53,152 If you enjoy doing something and you do it very well, 1570 01:27:53,152 --> 01:27:56,388 You can be successful and enjoy life. 1571 01:27:56,388 --> 01:27:58,524 I like playing the drums. 1572 01:27:58,524 --> 01:28:00,927 [Laughs] 1573 01:28:00,927 --> 01:28:04,263 I know what my life's experiences are, 1574 01:28:04,263 --> 01:28:08,134 And I like to exemplify them in music. 1575 01:28:08,134 --> 01:28:11,037 Mr. Baker does the same. 1576 01:28:11,037 --> 01:28:13,873 If that makes him an unpleasant person socially, 1577 01:28:13,873 --> 01:28:16,508 Well, that's exactly what is required 1578 01:28:16,508 --> 01:28:21,213 For the music from him to be so superb. 1579 01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:29,155 And I cannot question anyone with end results that perfect. 1580 01:28:31,891 --> 01:28:34,326 [Drumming continues] 1581 01:28:41,633 --> 01:28:43,836 [Cheers and applause] 1582 01:29:03,589 --> 01:29:06,525 ["Blue Condition" plays] 1583 01:29:06,525 --> 01:29:11,730 * Don't take the wrong direction * 1584 01:29:11,730 --> 01:29:14,533 * Passing through * 1585 01:29:16,235 --> 01:29:19,271 This is a Hollywood movie here, so... 1586 01:29:19,271 --> 01:29:20,272 Oh... 1587 01:29:20,272 --> 01:29:22,474 It's got to be really dramatic, 1588 01:29:22,474 --> 01:29:25,211 And I need to get you to cry at a certain point. 1589 01:29:25,211 --> 01:29:26,879 So if you could just cry right now... 1590 01:29:26,879 --> 01:29:28,714 Oh, yeah. 1591 01:29:28,714 --> 01:29:30,582 You're dumb. You know that? 1592 01:29:30,582 --> 01:29:32,051 You really are dumb. 1593 01:29:32,051 --> 01:29:36,355 Good God, I'm talking to a fucking block of moronic wood. 1594 01:29:36,355 --> 01:29:39,791 Just a single tear, like really slow-motion, 1595 01:29:39,791 --> 01:29:41,393 Down the side of your face. 1596 01:29:41,393 --> 01:29:44,897 If we could just get that shot, it would be great. 1597 01:29:48,267 --> 01:29:52,204 Trying to explain to a dumb American is very difficult. 1598 01:29:52,204 --> 01:29:56,142 If a stick had five right ends and one wrong end, 1599 01:29:56,142 --> 01:29:59,345 You'd get the wrong end every time. 1600 01:29:59,345 --> 01:30:01,247 [Sobs] 1601 01:30:01,247 --> 01:30:03,983 I'm crying for you. 1602 01:30:07,719 --> 01:30:09,521 Hello? 1603 01:30:09,521 --> 01:30:12,358 Spring will be a little late this year. 1604 01:30:12,358 --> 01:30:15,161 Talk about three short blanks. 1605 01:30:15,161 --> 01:30:17,396 You take the biscuit, boy. 1606 01:30:18,797 --> 01:30:21,600 You drive me fucking crazy. 1607 01:30:23,669 --> 01:30:28,607 * For you will hear no laughter * 1608 01:30:28,607 --> 01:30:31,443 * Nor see the sun * 1609 01:30:32,945 --> 01:30:37,749 * Life will be one disaster * 1610 01:30:37,749 --> 01:30:40,486 * All the way through * 1611 01:30:43,822 --> 01:30:47,593 * No relaxation * 1612 01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:52,231 * No conversation * 1613 01:30:52,864 --> 01:30:56,035 * No variation * 1614 01:30:56,035 --> 01:31:00,039 * In a very dark blue * 1615 01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:05,444 * Blue condition * 1616 01:31:05,444 --> 01:31:10,116 * Don't take the wrong direction * 1617 01:31:10,116 --> 01:31:13,385 * Passing through * 1618 01:31:14,586 --> 01:31:19,625 * Instead of deep reflection * 1619 01:31:19,625 --> 01:31:22,261 * Of what's true * 1620 01:31:23,795 --> 01:31:28,000 * For it's a combination * 1621 01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:31,337 * Of judgments made by you * 1622 01:31:32,338 --> 01:31:37,009 * That cause a deep dejection * 1623 01:31:37,009 --> 01:31:39,611 * All the way through * 1624 01:31:43,215 --> 01:31:47,186 * No relaxation * 1625 01:31:47,753 --> 01:31:51,623 * No conversation * 1626 01:31:52,258 --> 01:31:55,427 * No variation * 1627 01:31:55,427 --> 01:31:59,431 * In a very dark blue * 1628 01:31:59,431 --> 01:32:07,039 * Blue condition * 1629 01:32:07,039 --> 01:32:11,310 * No relaxation * 1630 01:32:11,310 --> 01:32:15,981 * No conversation * 1631 01:32:15,981 --> 01:32:19,118 * No variation * 1632 01:32:19,118 --> 01:32:25,257 * In a very dark blue * 1633 01:32:25,257 --> 01:32:29,261 * Condition * 123337

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