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1
00:00:22,206 --> 00:00:24,642
[Drums beating]
2
00:00:52,570 --> 00:00:55,106
[Drumming continues]
3
00:00:55,106 --> 00:00:58,209
You just want to push up
the people
4
00:00:58,209 --> 00:01:01,145
I've moved here
to get away from.
5
00:01:01,145 --> 00:01:04,616
I haven't spoken
to not one single one of them
6
00:01:04,616 --> 00:01:05,950
Since I left there.
7
00:01:05,950 --> 00:01:10,487
And I don't want any of them
on my film!
8
00:01:10,487 --> 00:01:11,823
You don't understand.
9
00:01:11,823 --> 00:01:13,658
I do understand.
10
00:01:13,658 --> 00:01:14,859
Yeah.
11
00:01:14,859 --> 00:01:17,094
What the fuck is wrong
with that?
12
00:01:17,094 --> 00:01:19,230
Are you really gonna hit me
with the...
13
00:01:19,230 --> 00:01:20,665
I fucking well am!
14
00:01:20,665 --> 00:01:23,768
I'm gonna fucking put you
in hospital!
15
00:01:23,768 --> 00:01:25,569
Why?
Oh, my God!
16
00:01:25,569 --> 00:01:29,006
[Up-tempo rock music plays]
17
00:01:29,006 --> 00:01:31,408
Yes!
18
00:01:31,408 --> 00:01:33,845
[Dog barking]
19
00:01:39,984 --> 00:01:44,155
Ginger Baker just hit me
in the fucking nose.
20
00:01:49,093 --> 00:01:50,895
[Music ends]
21
00:01:52,964 --> 00:01:55,800
This film is about
Ginger Baker,
22
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,270
A man who stands for something
in life
23
00:01:59,270 --> 00:02:02,940
That probably most of you
do not.
24
00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:04,909
Love and appreciate,
25
00:02:04,909 --> 00:02:11,615
No matter how awkward this
character may appear to you.
26
00:02:11,615 --> 00:02:13,284
God bless him.
27
00:02:13,284 --> 00:02:14,786
May the road rise.
28
00:02:14,786 --> 00:02:17,554
He helped me rise my road.
29
00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:18,890
Love you, Ginger.
30
00:02:18,890 --> 00:02:20,291
Johnny Rotten!
31
00:02:20,291 --> 00:02:21,659
I'm your man.
32
00:02:21,659 --> 00:02:24,361
[Drum solo]
33
00:02:36,140 --> 00:02:38,442
Ginger Baker is a motherfucker.
That's it.
34
00:02:38,442 --> 00:02:40,644
He personally is what drums
are all about.
35
00:02:40,644 --> 00:02:43,247
He is certifiably nuts.
He's mad.
36
00:02:43,247 --> 00:02:46,017
I think he was kind of
fairly consistently horrible
37
00:02:46,017 --> 00:02:47,518
To people and to himself.
38
00:02:47,518 --> 00:02:48,986
If they've got a problem
with me,
39
00:02:48,986 --> 00:02:50,855
Come and see me
and punch me on the nose.
40
00:02:50,855 --> 00:02:52,924
I ain't gonna sue you.
I'm gonna hit you back.
41
00:02:52,924 --> 00:02:55,927
He's moved around the world,
42
00:02:55,927 --> 00:02:57,929
Getting thrown out
of every country.
43
00:02:57,929 --> 00:02:59,630
He's a rogue.
He's a lovable rogue.
44
00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:01,398
He was a fucking
dope addict, man.
45
00:03:01,398 --> 00:03:02,767
He was into drugs heavily.
46
00:03:02,767 --> 00:03:04,702
Are you surprised
that he's still living?
47
00:03:04,702 --> 00:03:06,203
Yes, I am.
[Laughs]
48
00:03:06,203 --> 00:03:08,539
If a plane went down and it was
one person gonna get off,
49
00:03:08,539 --> 00:03:09,540
It would be Ginger.
50
00:03:09,540 --> 00:03:10,942
He was a scary guy.
51
00:03:10,942 --> 00:03:14,211
When I would look at him,
he looked like the devil.
52
00:03:14,211 --> 00:03:16,881
The devil takes care
of its own, yes.
53
00:03:16,881 --> 00:03:18,615
Like a great virtuoso madman.
54
00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:22,353
Maybe you have to be a little
mad to play the way he does.
55
00:03:22,353 --> 00:03:25,089
Probably the greatest drummer
that any of us had ever heard.
56
00:03:25,089 --> 00:03:26,623
He was the hammer of the gods.
57
00:03:26,623 --> 00:03:29,526
- He's a force of nature.
- The world's greatest drummer.
58
00:03:29,526 --> 00:03:33,898
He influenced me as a drummer,
but not as a person.
59
00:03:33,898 --> 00:03:36,801
[Cheers and applause]
60
00:03:37,835 --> 00:03:40,137
Ginger Baker on drums!
61
00:03:40,137 --> 00:03:43,240
[Cheers and applause]
62
00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:48,445
I was 26 years old,
63
00:03:48,445 --> 00:03:52,683
And my friend popped in a DVD
of this redheaded madman
64
00:03:52,683 --> 00:03:54,986
Driving across
the Sahara Desert.
65
00:03:54,986 --> 00:03:58,790
My initial reaction was,
"This guy has to be dead."
66
00:03:58,790 --> 00:04:00,925
But I searched for his name
on the Internet,
67
00:04:00,925 --> 00:04:03,360
And, lo and behold,
I found this article...
68
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,330
"Ginger Baker vows to strip
in South African court
69
00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:09,000
"To prove that woman
claiming to be his lover
70
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,002
Has never seen his cock before."
71
00:04:11,002 --> 00:04:14,271
[Mid-tempo rock music playing]
72
00:04:14,271 --> 00:04:19,443
Not only was he still alive,
but he's still a fucking madman.
73
00:04:19,443 --> 00:04:21,512
I have to meet this guy.
74
00:04:21,512 --> 00:04:22,413
Ginger.
Ginger.
75
00:04:22,413 --> 00:04:23,514
Hey, Ginger, it's Jay.
76
00:04:23,514 --> 00:04:25,149
Hey, it's Jay Bulger.
77
00:04:25,149 --> 00:04:27,518
I told him I was a writer
for Rolling Stone magazine,
78
00:04:27,518 --> 00:04:28,886
Which was a total lie.
79
00:04:28,886 --> 00:04:30,687
I want to come
and write an article
80
00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:31,889
About your trip to Africa.
81
00:04:31,889 --> 00:04:33,390
But that was my in,
82
00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:36,427
And he invited me to come down
and hear his story.
83
00:04:39,130 --> 00:04:41,132
Oh, are you all right?
84
00:04:42,867 --> 00:04:44,235
Your dog got poisoned?
85
00:04:44,235 --> 00:04:46,203
Hey, feel better.
I'll call you on Wednesday.
86
00:04:46,203 --> 00:04:47,671
I'm coming out there.
Bye.
87
00:04:47,671 --> 00:04:48,973
And I flew to South Africa
88
00:04:48,973 --> 00:04:51,242
And just kind of showed up
at his house.
89
00:04:51,242 --> 00:04:54,445
Mr. Baker,
nice to finally meet you.
90
00:04:54,445 --> 00:04:55,712
Huh?
91
00:04:55,712 --> 00:04:57,348
Thanks for having me.
92
00:04:57,348 --> 00:04:58,515
Yeah.
93
00:04:58,515 --> 00:04:59,884
And I lived with him.
94
00:04:59,884 --> 00:05:01,552
[Music continues]
95
00:05:01,552 --> 00:05:03,420
It was a truly humbling
experience.
96
00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:04,455
[Screams]
97
00:05:04,455 --> 00:05:06,891
Why don't you listen
to the fucking story?
98
00:05:06,891 --> 00:05:08,592
This is a fucking nightmare.
99
00:05:08,592 --> 00:05:09,894
Fucking my brain up.
100
00:05:09,894 --> 00:05:12,930
People zapper.
[Electricity crackles]
101
00:05:12,930 --> 00:05:17,468
I wrote an article, and it was
published in Rolling Stone.
102
00:05:20,804 --> 00:05:22,373
Thank you, Ginger Baker.
103
00:05:22,373 --> 00:05:25,609
He had gifted me
with a career as a journalist,
104
00:05:25,609 --> 00:05:29,346
But I owed him so much more
than just words on paper.
105
00:05:29,346 --> 00:05:33,117
People needed to meet the man,
hear him play the drums,
106
00:05:33,117 --> 00:05:37,088
And experience this legendary
character for themselves.
107
00:05:43,794 --> 00:05:45,829
Phew.
108
00:05:46,797 --> 00:05:48,565
[Intercom beeping]
109
00:05:49,500 --> 00:05:53,504
As we enter
into the Baker compound.
110
00:05:53,504 --> 00:05:57,441
Okay, the laws of South Africa,
which are loose enough,
111
00:05:57,441 --> 00:05:58,609
No longer apply.
112
00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:01,345
[Dogs barking]
113
00:06:05,316 --> 00:06:08,219
[Indistinct talking
on television]
114
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,188
My friends.
115
00:06:14,926 --> 00:06:16,560
How are you?
116
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:17,628
I'm great.
117
00:06:17,628 --> 00:06:21,065
Look.
You got a smile on your face.
118
00:06:21,065 --> 00:06:22,399
You missed me!
119
00:06:22,399 --> 00:06:24,768
- Yeah.
- You missed me!
120
00:06:24,768 --> 00:06:27,004
I can see it in your eyes.
121
00:06:27,939 --> 00:06:30,908
So, you've been practicing
the drums?
122
00:06:31,608 --> 00:06:32,944
Haven't touched them?
123
00:06:32,944 --> 00:06:34,678
Haven't touched them
for months.
124
00:06:34,678 --> 00:06:36,147
Really?
125
00:06:36,147 --> 00:06:38,282
Meet Ginger Baker.
126
00:06:38,282 --> 00:06:39,150
Hello.
127
00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:42,886
The man, the myth, the legend.
128
00:06:42,886 --> 00:06:44,821
The only thing I can say
to that, really,
129
00:06:44,821 --> 00:06:51,495
Is it's far too long a story
to say on one interview.
130
00:06:51,495 --> 00:06:53,230
I'm writing a book.
131
00:06:53,230 --> 00:06:56,333
When the book's published,
read it,
132
00:06:56,333 --> 00:06:59,703
And perhaps you'll understand.
133
00:06:59,703 --> 00:07:01,838
And when were you born?
134
00:07:01,838 --> 00:07:05,576
You know when I was born.
135
00:07:06,777 --> 00:07:08,179
It's in the book.
136
00:07:08,179 --> 00:07:10,381
Fuck the book.
We're not doing the book.
137
00:07:10,381 --> 00:07:14,218
It's the 19th of August 1939,
138
00:07:14,218 --> 00:07:17,888
Three weeks or so
before war was declared.
139
00:07:17,888 --> 00:07:21,525
[Shouting in German]
140
00:07:21,525 --> 00:07:24,695
[Crowd shouting]
141
00:07:24,695 --> 00:07:26,430
My dad was a hero.
142
00:07:26,430 --> 00:07:28,465
[Drums beating]
143
00:07:28,465 --> 00:07:32,469
He died
when I was 4 1/2 years old.
144
00:07:34,471 --> 00:07:36,707
You don't see bombs dropping,
145
00:07:36,707 --> 00:07:41,012
'Cause the siren goes off,
and you're in the shelter.
146
00:07:41,012 --> 00:07:42,646
You hear them.
147
00:07:42,646 --> 00:07:44,148
[Drumming continues]
148
00:07:44,148 --> 00:07:46,383
[Trumpet playing]
149
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,555
They used to go
"bop, bop, bop, bop, bop"...
150
00:07:51,555 --> 00:07:53,357
This funny little
clattering noise.
151
00:07:53,357 --> 00:07:56,827
And then the noise would stop,
and they'd go...
152
00:07:56,827 --> 00:07:58,095
[Whistles]
153
00:07:58,095 --> 00:08:01,365
[Drumming continues]
154
00:08:01,365 --> 00:08:02,733
When we went back to school,
155
00:08:02,733 --> 00:08:06,537
There were quite a few
empty desks, yeah.
156
00:08:11,508 --> 00:08:16,047
Yeah, the bombs going off,
you know, to me was great.
157
00:08:16,047 --> 00:08:17,781
[Laughs]
158
00:08:17,781 --> 00:08:21,218
I still love explosions
to this day, you know?
159
00:08:21,218 --> 00:08:23,920
You don't know.
Right.
160
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,656
I love disasters.
161
00:08:25,656 --> 00:08:27,624
[Drumming continues]
162
00:08:29,860 --> 00:08:36,667
I was considered a troublemaker,
a smartass, brainless child.
163
00:08:36,667 --> 00:08:41,772
I was part of this school gang,
and we'd go in this record shop,
164
00:08:41,772 --> 00:08:45,742
And the other guys
would be nicking records.
165
00:08:45,742 --> 00:08:47,811
But I was a decoy.
166
00:08:47,811 --> 00:08:51,748
I'd just take records
into the booths and play them.
167
00:08:51,748 --> 00:08:55,686
And then one day, I heard
"The Quintet of the Year."
168
00:08:55,686 --> 00:08:57,054
[Laughs]
169
00:08:57,054 --> 00:08:59,523
[Up-tempo jazz plays]
170
00:09:04,561 --> 00:09:08,165
I didn't even have a
record player, but I nicked it.
171
00:09:08,165 --> 00:09:09,666
All of a sudden,
172
00:09:09,666 --> 00:09:12,436
There was something
that I really could relate to.
173
00:09:12,436 --> 00:09:14,638
You know,
Max on "The Quintet of the Year"
174
00:09:14,638 --> 00:09:18,175
Is just out
of this fucking world.
175
00:09:28,585 --> 00:09:33,757
My mom found the records,
and she went fucking crazy.
176
00:09:33,757 --> 00:09:35,859
Mom used to use the strap
on him,
177
00:09:35,859 --> 00:09:37,128
And it made no difference.
178
00:09:37,128 --> 00:09:39,696
I used to be in my bedroom,
179
00:09:39,696 --> 00:09:42,766
Listening to him being strapped
and screaming.
180
00:09:42,766 --> 00:09:44,501
But it made no difference.
181
00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:48,272
She just said,
"Look, if ever I find you
182
00:09:48,272 --> 00:09:50,407
"Doing something
dishonest like this,
183
00:09:50,407 --> 00:09:52,809
I will call the police."
184
00:09:52,809 --> 00:09:56,647
So I wouldn't talk to the gang
anymore,
185
00:09:56,647 --> 00:10:00,151
And I got beaten up
several times by them.
186
00:10:00,151 --> 00:10:05,289
Started carving me up with a
razor blade with tape around it.
187
00:10:05,289 --> 00:10:08,425
They carved all these lines
all over my arms
188
00:10:08,425 --> 00:10:11,562
And my face and everything.
189
00:10:11,562 --> 00:10:14,298
I wasn't very popular
when I went back to school.
190
00:10:15,766 --> 00:10:21,438
It was about this time that I'd
got the letter from my dad.
191
00:10:21,438 --> 00:10:26,443
He wrote a letter for me
to be opened when I was 14.
192
00:10:26,443 --> 00:10:29,580
"My dear son,
it's just a little advice
193
00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:33,049
"In the way I should like you
to turn out.
194
00:10:33,049 --> 00:10:35,152
"Be a man at all times.
195
00:10:35,152 --> 00:10:37,188
"Hold your own ground.
196
00:10:37,188 --> 00:10:38,655
"Use your fists.
197
00:10:38,655 --> 00:10:42,326
"They are your best pals
so often.
198
00:10:42,326 --> 00:10:45,061
I remain your loving father."
199
00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:49,533
Before that, if people used to
punch me and that,
200
00:10:49,533 --> 00:10:53,069
I just used to cry and think,
"Why are they hitting me?"
201
00:10:53,069 --> 00:10:54,971
I wouldn't retaliate.
202
00:10:54,971 --> 00:10:57,541
And I beat this kid up.
203
00:10:58,675 --> 00:11:00,677
[Drums beating]
204
00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:04,715
I was gonna kill him.
205
00:11:06,082 --> 00:11:08,352
It's the Baker temper.
206
00:11:08,352 --> 00:11:11,255
I've learnt to control it,
but he hasn't.
207
00:11:11,255 --> 00:11:13,257
[Drumming continues]
208
00:11:13,257 --> 00:11:17,828
I was drumming all the time,
as long as I can remember.
209
00:11:17,828 --> 00:11:21,632
I was always banging
on the desks in school,
210
00:11:21,632 --> 00:11:25,702
And they were all just boogieing
and dancing and going crazy.
211
00:11:25,702 --> 00:11:28,805
There was a party,
and they had a band there.
212
00:11:28,805 --> 00:11:31,675
And all the kids from school
kept saying, "Go on."
213
00:11:31,675 --> 00:11:34,411
Go and play the drums.
Go and play the drums."
214
00:11:34,411 --> 00:11:37,914
And I just sat down,
and I could play.
215
00:11:37,914 --> 00:11:41,618
That's when a light went off...
I went "Fuck, I'm a drummer."
216
00:11:41,618 --> 00:11:42,419
[Laughs]
217
00:11:42,419 --> 00:11:44,621
[Drumming continues]
218
00:11:47,924 --> 00:11:50,261
It's a gift from God, Jay.
219
00:11:50,261 --> 00:11:52,729
You've either got it
or you haven't.
220
00:11:52,729 --> 00:11:54,598
I had it.
221
00:11:57,801 --> 00:11:59,270
Had what?
222
00:11:59,270 --> 00:12:01,305
Time.
223
00:12:02,205 --> 00:12:04,074
Natural time.
224
00:12:04,074 --> 00:12:06,543
[Drumming continues]
225
00:12:12,349 --> 00:12:17,888
His drumbeat is so personal
that I always know if it's him.
226
00:12:17,888 --> 00:12:20,691
I started doing quite well,
I guess.
227
00:12:20,691 --> 00:12:25,629
I'd got a sort of reputation
as a jazz drummer.
228
00:12:25,629 --> 00:12:27,398
My boyfriend at the time said,
229
00:12:27,398 --> 00:12:29,500
"Oh, you want to hear
this drummer.
230
00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,768
He's really great."
[Laughs]
231
00:12:31,768 --> 00:12:35,238
She really could dance.
She had really good time.
232
00:12:36,206 --> 00:12:39,376
And a good body, obviously.
233
00:12:39,376 --> 00:12:42,045
He's always been insecure
deep down.
234
00:12:42,045 --> 00:12:47,451
And I think Ginger did search
for a father figure,
235
00:12:47,451 --> 00:12:50,220
But they were always a drummer.
236
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:55,058
One night, I was playing
the all-nighter in the Flamingo,
237
00:12:55,058 --> 00:12:59,630
And I'd got offstage
to be confronted by God.
238
00:13:08,805 --> 00:13:12,643
Phil was just
the most amazing drummer.
239
00:13:12,643 --> 00:13:16,179
He was the only drummer
at that time
240
00:13:16,179 --> 00:13:18,815
That brought tears to my eyes.
241
00:13:18,815 --> 00:13:23,520
He said, "You're the first
fucking drummer I've heard here."
242
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,821
Come with me."
243
00:13:24,821 --> 00:13:28,892
So we go down
into his basement flat,
244
00:13:28,892 --> 00:13:32,963
And that is when I got
introduced to heroin
245
00:13:32,963 --> 00:13:35,632
And the African drummers.
246
00:13:35,632 --> 00:13:37,834
He tied this thing
around his arm
247
00:13:37,834 --> 00:13:40,637
And told me,
"When I tell you, undo it."
248
00:13:40,637 --> 00:13:45,208
And his arms were fucking
just a mass of scars
249
00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:47,310
And tracks and stuff.
250
00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:49,913
And he managed to hit a vein,
251
00:13:49,913 --> 00:13:53,116
And I pulled the thing off,
and he shot up.
252
00:13:54,084 --> 00:13:57,988
Then he gets out
all these African records
253
00:13:57,988 --> 00:13:59,390
And Watusi drummers.
254
00:13:59,390 --> 00:14:01,458
[Distorted voice]
African records...
255
00:14:01,458 --> 00:14:03,259
Watusi... African records...
256
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,263
Gets out all these
African records and Watusi...
257
00:14:07,263 --> 00:14:09,866
[Drums beating]
258
00:14:15,406 --> 00:14:17,608
[Wood creaking]
259
00:14:20,544 --> 00:14:23,547
Phil said, "Where's the beat?"
260
00:14:23,547 --> 00:14:25,949
And I'm doing like a three beat
on it.
261
00:14:25,949 --> 00:14:28,485
And he said,
"No, no, no. Listen."
262
00:14:28,485 --> 00:14:32,188
And he played this four,
the real beat,
263
00:14:32,188 --> 00:14:36,092
And it was like a fucking light
going on it.
264
00:14:36,092 --> 00:14:42,332
Wow! The basic African rhythms
were so fucking cool.
265
00:14:42,332 --> 00:14:45,469
[Drumming continues]
266
00:14:48,705 --> 00:14:51,442
[Metal rattling]
267
00:14:51,442 --> 00:14:54,411
[Needle scratches,
music stops]
268
00:14:54,411 --> 00:14:56,513
Then Phil's giving me
a great lecture
269
00:14:56,513 --> 00:15:01,618
About how I must never
touch heroin ever,
270
00:15:01,618 --> 00:15:04,788
And I walked back five miles
or something
271
00:15:04,788 --> 00:15:06,957
In the early-morning sunshine
272
00:15:06,957 --> 00:15:10,427
With Africa going through
my head.
273
00:15:10,894 --> 00:15:13,797
I think with Ginger
and the heroin,
274
00:15:13,797 --> 00:15:17,434
It was more he thought
it would improve his playing.
275
00:15:17,434 --> 00:15:20,203
You're fearless
if you use smack.
276
00:15:20,203 --> 00:15:21,905
You don't have any feelings.
277
00:15:21,905 --> 00:15:24,808
You're not scared of anybody
or anything.
278
00:15:24,808 --> 00:15:28,244
Whatever you wanted to play,
you played.
279
00:15:28,244 --> 00:15:30,080
It was just wonderful.
280
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,114
[Laughs]
281
00:15:31,114 --> 00:15:33,183
He didn't want to be
a family man
282
00:15:33,183 --> 00:15:35,719
Or anything like that,
really and truly.
283
00:15:35,719 --> 00:15:38,555
Liz discovered
she was pregnant,
284
00:15:38,555 --> 00:15:40,457
And we were only 20 years old.
285
00:15:40,457 --> 00:15:45,596
So she tried to get rid of it,
and it didn't work, thank God.
286
00:15:45,596 --> 00:15:47,498
They didn't want to have
a child,
287
00:15:47,498 --> 00:15:49,399
And my mom took something,
some tablets.
288
00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:53,837
He got some tablets off another
drummer to get rid of me.
289
00:15:53,837 --> 00:15:55,606
I don't care.
[Laughs]
290
00:15:55,606 --> 00:15:58,108
They would have been doing me
a bloody favor.
291
00:15:58,108 --> 00:16:00,343
No, I don't mind,
but it didn't work.
292
00:16:00,343 --> 00:16:01,545
[Laughs]
293
00:16:01,545 --> 00:16:03,113
No screaming or anything.
294
00:16:03,113 --> 00:16:04,214
The baby come out.
295
00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:05,849
And I'm carefully looking
296
00:16:05,849 --> 00:16:08,619
To make sure it's got all
its toes and fingers and stuff,
297
00:16:08,619 --> 00:16:10,621
You know,
thinking about the time
298
00:16:10,621 --> 00:16:14,758
We tried to abort it and stuff.
299
00:16:14,758 --> 00:16:17,060
There was this little kid.
300
00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:20,697
And that's when I decided
to get straight,
301
00:16:20,697 --> 00:16:25,301
And it took me
another fucking 19 years or so.
302
00:16:25,301 --> 00:16:26,903
So, what's the difference
303
00:16:26,903 --> 00:16:29,806
Between your state
of chemical dependencies now
304
00:16:29,806 --> 00:16:31,975
Than it was
when you were a junkie?
305
00:16:31,975 --> 00:16:34,410
I've no idea.
306
00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:36,847
I take it every day.
307
00:16:36,847 --> 00:16:40,817
It's called degenerative
osteoarthritis.
308
00:16:40,817 --> 00:16:43,053
Is that why you haven't been
playing the drums?
309
00:16:43,053 --> 00:16:44,855
What?!
310
00:16:46,056 --> 00:16:47,524
Don't you fuck...
311
00:16:47,524 --> 00:16:49,325
How I restrain myself
312
00:16:49,325 --> 00:16:53,997
From throwing everything
at you, Jay, I don't know.
313
00:16:53,997 --> 00:16:57,668
There's nothing you can do
about it, is there?
314
00:16:57,668 --> 00:16:59,803
[Coughs]
315
00:17:00,971 --> 00:17:03,640
You're not gonna give up?
316
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,878
Sometimes I feel like doing
just that.
317
00:17:18,689 --> 00:17:21,157
When you first met Jack Bruce,
318
00:17:21,157 --> 00:17:25,428
Was it as if you knew you had
met your musical counterpart?
319
00:17:25,428 --> 00:17:28,198
Early on, for sure, yeah.
320
00:17:28,198 --> 00:17:31,902
I mean, he's a fucking
brilliant player.
321
00:17:31,902 --> 00:17:34,104
There's no doubt about that.
322
00:17:34,104 --> 00:17:37,273
Ginger looked like
a complete and utter madman.
323
00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:39,710
He was the loudest drummer
I'd ever heard.
324
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:43,580
And I wanted to play with him,
so I asked if I could sit in.
325
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:48,518
Kept bugging us to sit in,
and he wouldn't fucking go away.
326
00:17:48,518 --> 00:17:50,353
So, of course,
they did the thing
327
00:17:50,353 --> 00:17:53,523
That jazz musicians always do,
which is to try and cut you.
328
00:17:53,523 --> 00:17:56,727
I think the first thing
they played was very, very fast.
329
00:17:56,727 --> 00:17:58,461
And he played it.
330
00:17:58,461 --> 00:18:00,463
[Laughs]
331
00:18:00,463 --> 00:18:02,733
Which is quite extraordinary.
332
00:18:02,733 --> 00:18:04,067
Jack got the gig
333
00:18:04,067 --> 00:18:07,270
With Alexis Korner's
Blues Incorporated,
334
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:11,574
And none of them were
terribly happy with the drummer,
335
00:18:11,574 --> 00:18:13,276
Who was Charlie Watts.
336
00:18:13,276 --> 00:18:16,012
I actually don't know how long
Ginger was with the band.
337
00:18:16,012 --> 00:18:20,717
I know he took over for me,
on my recommendation.
338
00:18:20,717 --> 00:18:24,420
Charlie left the band
so that I could join.
339
00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:27,157
[Down-tempo jazz playing]
340
00:18:27,157 --> 00:18:30,193
Can you tell me the story
of Mick Jagger?
341
00:18:30,193 --> 00:18:31,895
[Mutters]
342
00:18:31,895 --> 00:18:36,066
"Can you tell me what it was
like meeting Mick Jagger?"
343
00:18:37,567 --> 00:18:43,039
This effeminate-looking kid
got up and sung one number.
344
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:46,910
And I'm going, "Jack, who is
this stupid little cunt?"
345
00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:48,444
What's he doing here?"
346
00:18:48,444 --> 00:18:52,548
Jack and I used to put
some jazz things in,
347
00:18:52,548 --> 00:18:55,351
Completely throw him off.
348
00:18:55,351 --> 00:18:58,054
I mean, I was a heavy junkie
at the time,
349
00:18:58,054 --> 00:19:00,724
So I just terrified
the shit out of him.
350
00:19:00,724 --> 00:19:02,859
[Laughs]
351
00:19:02,859 --> 00:19:06,930
And then Alexis decided
to get Graham in the band.
352
00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,432
My first reaction to that was,
"Fucking no.
353
00:19:09,432 --> 00:19:12,736
Alexis, watch it, 'cause he'll
steal half the band,"
354
00:19:12,736 --> 00:19:14,237
Which is exactly what he did.
355
00:19:14,237 --> 00:19:17,207
Can you contextualize who we're
speaking about right now?
356
00:19:17,207 --> 00:19:19,943
Well, I've just said it,
for fuck's sake.
357
00:19:19,943 --> 00:19:21,411
You just said "Graham."
That's it.
358
00:19:21,411 --> 00:19:24,047
People who don't know
who Graham is.
359
00:19:26,149 --> 00:19:28,051
Graham Bond was a fat guy.
360
00:19:28,051 --> 00:19:29,753
[Harmonica playing]
361
00:19:29,753 --> 00:19:33,489
* Well, I was standing on
the corner, waiting to go home *
362
00:19:33,489 --> 00:19:36,760
* When I heard this sound
that made me want to go *
363
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,864
* Well, it was coming from
a doss across the street *
364
00:19:40,864 --> 00:19:43,599
* It was kind of stompy,
with an R&B beat *
365
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:44,768
* It went... *
366
00:19:44,768 --> 00:19:46,169
Harmonica!
Oh!
367
00:19:46,169 --> 00:19:49,405
Graham Bond Organization
was to musicians
368
00:19:49,405 --> 00:19:51,674
What The Beatles were
to the public.
369
00:19:51,674 --> 00:19:53,409
Brilliant.
370
00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:56,012
Jack Bruce, Ginger Baker,
Dick Heckstall-Smith,
371
00:19:56,012 --> 00:19:58,114
And Graham Bond were at the top.
372
00:19:58,114 --> 00:20:01,752
We were a band trying to be
like a band in Chicago.
373
00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,686
But they were something else,
you know?
374
00:20:03,686 --> 00:20:05,756
* Playin' with an R&B band *
375
00:20:05,756 --> 00:20:07,023
* Oh, yeah! *
376
00:20:07,023 --> 00:20:09,159
His reputation was as being,
you know,
377
00:20:09,159 --> 00:20:11,928
Probably the best drummer around
in those days.
378
00:20:11,928 --> 00:20:15,065
It was really Ginger's
first taste of fame, yes.
379
00:20:15,065 --> 00:20:17,600
It's the same with you, Ginger.
380
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,902
This is beat.
381
00:20:18,902 --> 00:20:20,170
[Beats drum]
382
00:20:20,170 --> 00:20:23,473
Don't worry about
splitting your skins.
383
00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:26,409
They can be replaced.
384
00:20:26,409 --> 00:20:28,344
And so can you.
385
00:20:28,344 --> 00:20:32,248
They did sort of contain the
seeds of their own destruction,
386
00:20:32,248 --> 00:20:35,018
What with Graham
and Ginger's bad habits
387
00:20:35,018 --> 00:20:37,821
And the conflict
between Jack and Ginger.
388
00:20:37,821 --> 00:20:39,289
For two musicians
389
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:42,092
Who were incredibly
complementary to each other
390
00:20:42,092 --> 00:20:44,627
And who have played
consistently over the years,
391
00:20:44,627 --> 00:20:50,333
It's really remarkable
how well they didn't get along.
392
00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:53,636
It was a very sad
situation, really.
393
00:20:53,636 --> 00:20:57,808
In the early days,
when he was following me more,
394
00:20:57,808 --> 00:21:00,310
The music was
really fucking great.
395
00:21:00,310 --> 00:21:04,180
When I switched from
upright bass to bass guitar,
396
00:21:04,180 --> 00:21:06,449
That wasn't what Ginger wanted.
397
00:21:06,449 --> 00:21:09,685
I think that was when
the problems started.
398
00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:13,790
Jack's like a guy who gets up
before the sun comes
399
00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:16,059
To see the sun rise.
400
00:21:16,059 --> 00:21:19,329
He sees the sun come
halfway over the horizon
401
00:21:19,329 --> 00:21:22,933
And runs home and says,
"I've seen the sun rise."
402
00:21:22,933 --> 00:21:28,471
That was how Jack
got the time things
403
00:21:28,471 --> 00:21:30,640
That I was showing him.
404
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,343
He didn't get the full picture.
405
00:21:33,343 --> 00:21:37,147
I have perfect time, which is
a quite useful thing to have.
406
00:21:37,147 --> 00:21:39,482
Very few people have that.
407
00:21:39,482 --> 00:21:40,917
It's just a gift.
408
00:21:40,917 --> 00:21:44,520
The last number
was always the drum solo.
409
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,157
And I've kicked into
the drum solo,
410
00:21:47,157 --> 00:21:50,093
And Jack's, like,
playing with me.
411
00:21:50,093 --> 00:21:53,396
I wouldn't be playing
during his drum solo.
412
00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:57,500
And I off-loaded
a right-hander on him.
413
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:01,104
He went down on the ground,
and I'm kicking him.
414
00:22:01,104 --> 00:22:03,940
You know,
"Get up, you little cunt!"
415
00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:06,409
I was kicking the shit
out of him.
416
00:22:06,409 --> 00:22:08,278
[Drum solo]
417
00:22:08,278 --> 00:22:13,416
I just let go, and I was gonna
kick him to death.
418
00:22:13,416 --> 00:22:16,819
And then he pulled a knife
on me and said, "You're fired."
419
00:22:16,819 --> 00:22:18,388
And I said,
"But you can't fire me.
420
00:22:18,388 --> 00:22:20,690
"It's The Graham Bond
Organization,
421
00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,192
And I'm the founding member."
422
00:22:22,192 --> 00:22:23,493
But poor old Graham...
423
00:22:23,493 --> 00:22:25,862
He was well gone
into smack by that time,
424
00:22:25,862 --> 00:22:27,530
So he didn't really care.
425
00:22:27,530 --> 00:22:31,667
Graham was probably a bigger
disaster area than Ginger was.
426
00:22:31,667 --> 00:22:34,871
We would be using a mixture
of cocaine, heroin,
427
00:22:34,871 --> 00:22:37,440
And lysergic acid in a fix.
428
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,608
[Laughs]
429
00:22:38,608 --> 00:22:42,946
I was very hurt
by not the knife thing,
430
00:22:42,946 --> 00:22:46,782
But the fact that I was out
of that band.
431
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:51,321
And it was very stupid of him,
because the band was doing well,
432
00:22:51,321 --> 00:22:54,624
And I was quite an important
part of the band.
433
00:22:54,624 --> 00:22:58,394
The band continued
being very successful
434
00:22:58,394 --> 00:23:01,531
And just reached a point
where I thought,
435
00:23:01,531 --> 00:23:06,136
"I've been running the band
successfully for three years.
436
00:23:06,136 --> 00:23:10,173
Why don't I run my own band
instead?"
437
00:23:10,173 --> 00:23:13,977
[Cream's "White Room" plays]
438
00:23:21,985 --> 00:23:26,756
The first person I thought of
was Eric.
439
00:23:26,756 --> 00:23:30,360
[Guitar solo]
440
00:23:34,597 --> 00:23:38,034
He saw something in me
that I never saw before.
441
00:23:38,034 --> 00:23:40,036
He would say it was about time.
442
00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:43,473
He had time
that very few people have.
443
00:23:43,473 --> 00:23:44,674
Eric had it.
444
00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:48,278
Ginger was pretty dismissive
and antisocial...
445
00:23:48,278 --> 00:23:50,013
Seriously antisocial.
446
00:23:50,013 --> 00:23:52,015
But he had the gift.
447
00:23:52,015 --> 00:23:55,285
He had the spark, the flair,
the panache.
448
00:23:55,285 --> 00:23:56,987
He had it in spades.
449
00:23:56,987 --> 00:23:59,089
And Jack had the same thing.
450
00:23:59,089 --> 00:24:02,558
He said, "What about Jack
as the bass player?"
451
00:24:02,558 --> 00:24:05,828
And all the red lights
in the world went off,
452
00:24:05,828 --> 00:24:07,863
And I thought, "Oh, God."
453
00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:11,534
I was very surprised
when he came knocking again.
454
00:24:11,534 --> 00:24:13,569
I didn't see that coming.
No.
455
00:24:13,569 --> 00:24:15,105
I didn't expect that, no.
456
00:24:15,105 --> 00:24:17,340
["I Feel Free" plays]
457
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:23,013
* Feel when I dance with you *
458
00:24:23,013 --> 00:24:27,117
* We move like the sea *
459
00:24:28,284 --> 00:24:32,955
* I feel free *
460
00:24:33,423 --> 00:24:36,192
* I can walk down the street,
there's no one there *
461
00:24:36,192 --> 00:24:38,661
* Though the pavements
are one huge crowd *
462
00:24:38,661 --> 00:24:41,364
* I can drive down the road,
my eyes don't see *
463
00:24:41,364 --> 00:24:44,267
* Though my mind
wants to cry out loud *
464
00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:48,571
When an atomic bomb
went off like that,
465
00:24:48,571 --> 00:24:50,973
Like I think Cream
really represented,
466
00:24:50,973 --> 00:24:53,076
It overwhelmed everything.
467
00:24:53,076 --> 00:24:57,047
["Tales of Brave Ulysses"
plays]
468
00:25:01,551 --> 00:25:05,821
When Hendrix came to England,
he wanted to jam with Cream,
469
00:25:05,821 --> 00:25:08,691
Because there was nobody else
that he admired as much.
470
00:25:08,691 --> 00:25:11,961
They were the beginning
of many, many things.
471
00:25:11,961 --> 00:25:13,263
Cream absolutely
might be called
472
00:25:13,263 --> 00:25:14,730
The first progressive band.
473
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:16,099
The first supergroup.
474
00:25:16,099 --> 00:25:18,334
The first band that played
in big arenas.
475
00:25:18,334 --> 00:25:19,802
The first jam band.
476
00:25:19,802 --> 00:25:23,339
They were breaking out
of the chains of pop.
477
00:25:30,046 --> 00:25:31,647
We were fucking good.
478
00:25:31,647 --> 00:25:34,684
That's how we called ourselves
Cream.
479
00:25:34,684 --> 00:25:38,454
We knew we were the three
best musicians around.
480
00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:40,590
If Cream did not invent
heavy metal,
481
00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:43,526
They certainly were part
of a band of brothers
482
00:25:43,526 --> 00:25:46,529
That were very instrumental
in facilitating it.
483
00:25:46,529 --> 00:25:51,734
The birth of heavy metal
should have been aborted.
484
00:25:52,335 --> 00:25:54,537
He was really at the forefront
485
00:25:54,537 --> 00:25:57,140
Of a complete revolution
of rock.
486
00:25:57,140 --> 00:26:00,343
["Sunshine of Your Love"
plays]
487
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,516
It's hard to find fault
with the notion
488
00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:08,551
That he was the pioneer
of a rock drummer.
489
00:26:08,551 --> 00:26:11,821
There was no context for him.
There was no archetype.
490
00:26:11,821 --> 00:26:13,223
He is the archetype.
491
00:26:13,223 --> 00:26:15,091
Before Ginger, rhythm was
492
00:26:15,091 --> 00:26:16,892
"Ting, ting, ting-ting,
ting, ting-ting."
493
00:26:16,892 --> 00:26:18,428
And Ginger comes along...
494
00:26:18,428 --> 00:26:21,364
"Dug-a-dug-dug, dug-a-dug-dug,
Dug-dug-dug-a-dug..."
495
00:26:21,364 --> 00:26:25,501
* I'll be with you,
darling, soon *
496
00:26:25,501 --> 00:26:30,373
* I'll be with you
when the stars start falling *
497
00:26:30,373 --> 00:26:34,577
* I've been waiting so long *
498
00:26:35,311 --> 00:26:39,515
* To be where I'm going *
499
00:26:39,515 --> 00:26:46,689
* In the sunshine of your love *
500
00:26:49,592 --> 00:26:51,527
When he was listening to music
as a kid,
501
00:26:51,527 --> 00:26:53,396
He wasn't listening
to the Jimi Hendrix
502
00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:55,565
And guitar-hero bands and so on.
503
00:26:55,565 --> 00:26:57,099
He invented all that stuff.
504
00:26:57,099 --> 00:26:58,668
Jack brought it in as going
505
00:26:58,668 --> 00:27:01,337
"Diddle-a-di-di,
di-di-da-dee-dee, diddle..."
506
00:27:01,337 --> 00:27:02,772
Dingbat, ditty bat.
507
00:27:02,772 --> 00:27:06,075
That's where Jack's head is
writing.
508
00:27:06,075 --> 00:27:08,411
And I said,
"Man, that's terrible.
509
00:27:08,411 --> 00:27:11,747
Why don't you slow it down
and play it backwards?"
510
00:27:11,747 --> 00:27:14,917
Ba-da-da-ba, ba-ba...
511
00:27:15,785 --> 00:27:21,624
Another one is "White Room,"
the 5/4 bolero that makes it.
512
00:27:21,624 --> 00:27:25,828
Da, bum-bum-bum-bum,
bum-bum-bum, da...
513
00:27:25,828 --> 00:27:27,363
Wasn't written like that.
514
00:27:27,363 --> 00:27:29,565
Jack wrote it in 4/4.
515
00:27:29,565 --> 00:27:32,702
He now declares
"I wrote it in 5/4."
516
00:27:32,702 --> 00:27:33,636
I mean, hello?
517
00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:35,505
* In the white room *
518
00:27:35,505 --> 00:27:37,807
* With black curtains *
519
00:27:37,807 --> 00:27:40,910
* In the station *
520
00:27:41,677 --> 00:27:46,782
Today and for the last...
How long is it now?... 40 years,
521
00:27:46,782 --> 00:27:51,521
Pete Brown and Jack Bruce
have been earning
522
00:27:51,521 --> 00:27:54,957
A hell of a lot more money
from Cream
523
00:27:54,957 --> 00:27:59,662
Than Eric and I will ever earn,
to this day.
524
00:27:59,662 --> 00:28:01,831
The guy who gets the credit
for writing the song
525
00:28:01,831 --> 00:28:04,367
Is the guy who writes the lyric
gets half of it,
526
00:28:04,367 --> 00:28:06,469
And the guy who writes
the melody of the lyric
527
00:28:06,469 --> 00:28:07,770
Gets the other half.
528
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:10,573
The drums are part
of the arrangement,
529
00:28:10,573 --> 00:28:12,775
And the arrangement
doesn't get royalties.
530
00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:13,776
Zip. Nada.
531
00:28:13,776 --> 00:28:15,845
Cream was my thing.
532
00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:18,881
And it did exactly
what I planned it to do.
533
00:28:18,881 --> 00:28:22,117
Only I'm the guy
who lost out on it.
534
00:28:22,117 --> 00:28:24,287
I'm fucking broke right now.
535
00:28:24,287 --> 00:28:28,258
* Run from themselves *
536
00:28:29,892 --> 00:28:32,495
[Crowd cheering]
537
00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:41,203
To Jack Bruce's counterpoint,
he gives rhythm,
538
00:28:41,203 --> 00:28:44,307
And to Eric Clapton's technical
virtuosity, he gives shape.
539
00:28:44,307 --> 00:28:47,009
On their first tour together,
he practiced so intensively
540
00:28:47,009 --> 00:28:49,479
That he left behind him
a trail of hotel bills
541
00:28:49,479 --> 00:28:50,846
For broken furniture.
542
00:28:50,846 --> 00:28:53,015
We asked him
if he still practiced as much.
543
00:28:53,015 --> 00:28:56,218
No.
I don't practice at all.
544
00:28:56,218 --> 00:28:57,720
Not at all?
545
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,555
I used to, but I don't anymore.
546
00:28:59,555 --> 00:29:01,924
I just used to play solos.
547
00:29:01,924 --> 00:29:06,429
Just used to sit on the drum kit
and play it all day.
548
00:29:06,429 --> 00:29:07,630
Can you show us some?
549
00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:09,932
- You want me to play?
- Please.
550
00:29:09,932 --> 00:29:13,002
[Chuckles]
At this time of the day.
551
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:31,487
Independence... the ability
to play a different thing
552
00:29:31,487 --> 00:29:33,623
With all four limbs,
553
00:29:33,623 --> 00:29:36,892
Which is how I play things
that sound incredibly fast
554
00:29:36,892 --> 00:29:40,162
When I'm not actually moving
anything very fast.
555
00:29:40,162 --> 00:29:43,299
Because all four beats are
landing in a different place,
556
00:29:43,299 --> 00:29:46,201
So what comes out
is four times as fast.
557
00:29:46,201 --> 00:29:47,603
[Laughs]
558
00:29:47,603 --> 00:29:51,240
But it's not how fast you play.
559
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,376
It's what you say.
560
00:29:53,376 --> 00:29:55,578
[Drum solo]
561
00:30:00,950 --> 00:30:03,586
Ginger Baker's
most notable achievement
562
00:30:03,586 --> 00:30:06,389
That should be recognized
is the first rock drum solo.
563
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:08,358
And me as a 15-year-old kid
at the time
564
00:30:08,358 --> 00:30:11,193
Was like, "Yeah, yeah, that's
the rock drummer I want to be."
565
00:30:11,193 --> 00:30:12,395
I must have been 16.
566
00:30:12,395 --> 00:30:13,996
I was exactly the sweet spot
567
00:30:13,996 --> 00:30:17,333
Where my brain clicked on
and said, "What's it all about?"
568
00:30:17,333 --> 00:30:18,568
It was Ginger's drums.
569
00:30:18,568 --> 00:30:20,603
I'm here today
because of Ginger,
570
00:30:20,603 --> 00:30:23,439
Because he was
the absolute inspiration
571
00:30:23,439 --> 00:30:26,241
For me being in a band,
playing the drums.
572
00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:30,012
I absolutely thought, "You know,
that's what I'd like to be."
573
00:30:34,016 --> 00:30:36,352
[Music continues]
574
00:30:39,288 --> 00:30:40,723
It became Ginger's thing.
575
00:30:40,723 --> 00:30:43,058
He'd do these very long
drum solos.
576
00:30:43,058 --> 00:30:45,561
You either liked them
or you didn't like them.
577
00:30:45,561 --> 00:30:49,198
I liked them because I could go
off and have a smoke, you know?
578
00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:51,133
Cream... How popular were they?
579
00:30:51,133 --> 00:30:52,435
Oh, huge, huge.
580
00:30:52,435 --> 00:30:53,936
How huge is "huge"?
581
00:30:53,936 --> 00:30:56,606
Well, they did three nights
in Madison Square Garden.
582
00:30:56,606 --> 00:30:59,709
They could have done two weeks
and sold out every night.
583
00:30:59,709 --> 00:31:02,044
When a promoter hired
The Cream,
584
00:31:02,044 --> 00:31:05,481
Ginger wanted a case of beer
and two black hookers
585
00:31:05,481 --> 00:31:08,117
And a white limo
or he wouldn't play.
586
00:31:08,117 --> 00:31:09,351
I've been in hotel rooms,
587
00:31:09,351 --> 00:31:11,020
And there's been a knock on
the door.
588
00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:12,354
I've opened the door,
589
00:31:12,354 --> 00:31:14,890
And there's been three groupies
all standing there.
590
00:31:14,890 --> 00:31:17,226
Just queues of chicks waiting.
[Laughs]
591
00:31:17,226 --> 00:31:20,062
One would knock on the door
and climb into bed.
592
00:31:20,062 --> 00:31:22,598
We used to call them
"star fuckers."
593
00:31:22,598 --> 00:31:24,266
You know, they'd come
and say like,
594
00:31:24,266 --> 00:31:26,969
"I'd like to give you a blowjob
and see you come."
595
00:31:26,969 --> 00:31:31,006
They all wanted to fuck Cream,
you know?
596
00:31:31,006 --> 00:31:34,610
It was quite a rapid rise
to fame.
597
00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:38,147
I don't know whether it was
too fast for Ginger.
598
00:31:38,147 --> 00:31:39,582
I didn't really care.
599
00:31:39,582 --> 00:31:43,352
We'd lived in a succession
of not very nice places.
600
00:31:43,352 --> 00:31:44,687
And then for once, we thought,
601
00:31:44,687 --> 00:31:48,057
"Oh, we can actually buy
a house of our own."
602
00:31:48,057 --> 00:31:51,494
The family at home
was something totally separate
603
00:31:51,494 --> 00:31:53,829
From being on tour.
604
00:31:53,829 --> 00:31:56,832
His dad died when he was 4
or something like that.
605
00:31:56,832 --> 00:32:01,336
So he didn't really have
someone, a role-model father.
606
00:32:01,336 --> 00:32:06,776
He communicates more through his
drums than through his words.
607
00:32:06,776 --> 00:32:10,713
I told my wife
long before we were married,
608
00:32:10,713 --> 00:32:14,917
"If you get me to choose
between the drums and you,
609
00:32:14,917 --> 00:32:17,019
I'm gonna choose the drums."
610
00:32:17,019 --> 00:32:18,554
[Chuckles]
611
00:32:18,554 --> 00:32:20,690
We had no other interest.
612
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:22,792
There was nothing else going on.
613
00:32:22,792 --> 00:32:24,460
There was no family.
614
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:26,996
There was no desires
for success.
615
00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:29,865
There was no commerciality
involved.
616
00:32:29,865 --> 00:32:31,501
There was no responsibility
617
00:32:31,501 --> 00:32:35,671
Other than to that unique moment
in time when we were together.
618
00:32:35,671 --> 00:32:38,140
And for a short,
sweet period of time,
619
00:32:38,140 --> 00:32:42,211
It was unfettered and extreme
and beautiful.
620
00:32:42,211 --> 00:32:43,479
They were like Vikings.
621
00:32:43,479 --> 00:32:45,147
You know, they just came
on our shore
622
00:32:45,147 --> 00:32:48,050
And just took the women
and the children,
623
00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:50,853
It was scorched earth.
There was no question about it.
624
00:32:50,853 --> 00:32:52,888
They were here to take heads.
625
00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:57,192
We went there to show the Yanks
how to play.
626
00:32:57,192 --> 00:32:59,128
I saw them when they first came
to San Francisco.
627
00:32:59,128 --> 00:33:03,298
They looked and sounded
like giants.
628
00:33:03,298 --> 00:33:07,770
They took off and started
playing supersonic music.
629
00:33:07,770 --> 00:33:12,374
And supersonic music is when
the Holy Ghost takes over
630
00:33:12,374 --> 00:33:15,444
And you're playing something
that, when you hear it back,
631
00:33:15,444 --> 00:33:17,446
You have no idea
what the hell you did.
632
00:33:17,446 --> 00:33:20,249
[Up-tempo rock music playing]
633
00:33:56,018 --> 00:34:00,189
There was something about that
little chemistry that we had,
634
00:34:00,189 --> 00:34:01,857
Ginger and me and Eric.
635
00:34:01,857 --> 00:34:04,359
It'll never be repeated
by anybody else.
636
00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:08,363
Cream... They were together
shorter than our last tour.
637
00:34:08,363 --> 00:34:11,801
You know, we've been on the road
for two years and two months.
638
00:34:11,801 --> 00:34:14,704
That's two months longer
than their entire life-span.
639
00:34:14,704 --> 00:34:16,639
Sam Kinison would say,
"I've had parties
640
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,373
That lasted
more than two years."
641
00:34:18,373 --> 00:34:23,178
* We... *
642
00:34:23,178 --> 00:34:24,914
[Crowd cheering]
643
00:34:24,914 --> 00:34:30,019
Cream only lasted as long as it
did because it was so popular.
644
00:34:30,019 --> 00:34:34,724
I just couldn't handle
working with Jack anymore.
645
00:34:34,724 --> 00:34:36,558
Whatever energy was happening
646
00:34:36,558 --> 00:34:39,662
Between Jack Bruce
and Ginger Baker
647
00:34:39,662 --> 00:34:42,497
Also mounted Eric
648
00:34:42,497 --> 00:34:46,736
To play beyond what he was
playing with John Mayall
649
00:34:46,736 --> 00:34:48,738
Or later on, all the other bands
that he played.
650
00:34:48,738 --> 00:34:51,040
They focused on one another
all the time
651
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,408
For their aggression
and their frustrations,
652
00:34:53,408 --> 00:34:54,810
And it wore me out.
653
00:34:54,810 --> 00:34:57,546
I remember Eric breaking down
in tears once.
654
00:34:57,546 --> 00:35:01,083
[Laughs]
That was not very good.
655
00:35:01,083 --> 00:35:02,217
Sorry, Eric.
656
00:35:02,217 --> 00:35:04,153
From time to time,
I would break down
657
00:35:04,153 --> 00:35:06,188
And just go,
"I can't stand this anymore."
658
00:35:06,188 --> 00:35:08,290
'Cause I was really
on the sidelines,
659
00:35:08,290 --> 00:35:10,626
And I knew I couldn't
affect anything,
660
00:35:10,626 --> 00:35:13,228
Because I didn't have
the understanding
661
00:35:13,228 --> 00:35:16,298
Or the power to be able to do
anything about it.
662
00:35:16,298 --> 00:35:18,100
You'd just run, really.
663
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:21,170
And, you know, when Cream,
I thought, had run its course,
664
00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:24,807
I was quite keen to get out of
there and have a break, really.
665
00:35:28,911 --> 00:35:31,180
A banger...
You know, a firework,
666
00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:33,115
Whatever you call them...
Cracker or whatever...
667
00:35:33,115 --> 00:35:35,150
They only last a second,
don't they,
668
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:37,486
And they fizzle up
and burn up and that's it.
669
00:35:37,486 --> 00:35:40,389
It's all dead and gone.
And the band was like that.
670
00:35:40,389 --> 00:35:43,726
They were never, ever going to
be a long-lasting band.
671
00:35:43,726 --> 00:35:49,631
* We're going wrong *
672
00:35:49,631 --> 00:35:51,400
[Music ends]
673
00:36:02,712 --> 00:36:05,014
Hello, Bonnie.
674
00:36:13,155 --> 00:36:20,229
Mimosa, don't be scared
of the camera.
675
00:36:22,364 --> 00:36:26,902
You're a soldier boy,
aren't you?
676
00:36:26,902 --> 00:36:30,372
Big old, tough soldier boy.
677
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:39,148
Eric and I decided
that we wanted to get together
678
00:36:39,148 --> 00:36:41,550
With this project
with Blind Faith.
679
00:36:42,151 --> 00:36:45,988
And...
[Tires screech]
680
00:36:46,856 --> 00:36:48,858
Ginger showed up.
681
00:36:48,858 --> 00:36:50,860
[Engine revs]
682
00:36:50,860 --> 00:36:54,263
I just hit it off musically
with Stevie
683
00:36:54,263 --> 00:36:57,733
In the same way
as I had hit off with Eric.
684
00:36:57,733 --> 00:37:00,402
Stevie had time.
685
00:37:00,402 --> 00:37:04,539
I actually didn't realize
until quite a bit later
686
00:37:04,539 --> 00:37:06,842
That Eric was so horrified
687
00:37:06,842 --> 00:37:10,813
That he was hooking up
with Ginger again.
688
00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:13,749
The last person
that Eric wanted on drums
689
00:37:13,749 --> 00:37:16,218
With his new venture was Ginger.
690
00:37:16,218 --> 00:37:20,622
I believe he turned up
at a rehearsal and said, "Right."
691
00:37:20,622 --> 00:37:22,624
Where do we start?"
692
00:37:22,624 --> 00:37:25,194
["Had To Cry Today" plays]
693
00:37:27,696 --> 00:37:30,299
* It's already written *
694
00:37:30,299 --> 00:37:35,437
* That today will be one
to remember *
695
00:37:38,874 --> 00:37:42,111
* The feeling's the same *
696
00:37:42,111 --> 00:37:47,049
* As being outside of the law *
697
00:37:51,887 --> 00:37:56,291
* Had to cry today *
698
00:38:01,630 --> 00:38:06,435
* Saw your sign,
and I missed you then *
699
00:38:07,937 --> 00:38:10,572
We were called a supergroup
from day one.
700
00:38:10,572 --> 00:38:12,207
We hit the road too early.
701
00:38:12,207 --> 00:38:14,977
And, you know,
it overpowered us.
702
00:38:16,245 --> 00:38:20,850
I think Ginger was as happy
as a pig in shit in Blind Faith.
703
00:38:20,850 --> 00:38:24,386
You know, there was no one...
There was Rick Grech...
704
00:38:24,386 --> 00:38:28,290
Great player, you know,
but no Jack Bruce.
705
00:38:28,290 --> 00:38:30,960
And Ginger could fucking do
what he wants.
706
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:41,803
* Do what you like *
707
00:38:41,803 --> 00:38:47,309
I was driving a Shelby Cobra
up the coast to Los Angeles
708
00:38:47,309 --> 00:38:50,812
With three gorgeous chicks
in the car.
709
00:38:50,812 --> 00:38:54,149
And the radio station
stopped the music
710
00:38:54,149 --> 00:38:59,321
With the news that Ginger Baker,
Blind Faith drummer,
711
00:38:59,321 --> 00:39:02,224
Had just been found dead
in his hotel room
712
00:39:02,224 --> 00:39:04,393
From a heroin overdose.
713
00:39:04,393 --> 00:39:06,795
[Laughs]
714
00:39:06,795 --> 00:39:09,999
And I went "Fucking hell.
I must be in heaven," you know?
715
00:39:09,999 --> 00:39:12,935
I'm driving this supercar
with three super chicks.
716
00:39:12,935 --> 00:39:14,269
[Laughs]
717
00:39:14,269 --> 00:39:16,771
["Do What You Like" plays]
718
00:39:16,771 --> 00:39:19,808
There was huge amounts
of drugs,
719
00:39:19,808 --> 00:39:25,180
Which at the time, I must admit,
I didn't really know about,
720
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:28,017
Because I was probably smoking
so much weed,
721
00:39:28,017 --> 00:39:30,319
I didn't really know
what was going on anyway.
722
00:39:30,319 --> 00:39:34,289
Every time
we got to Los Angeles,
723
00:39:34,289 --> 00:39:36,391
The drugs would appear,
724
00:39:36,391 --> 00:39:41,130
So I decided to go to Hawaii
after the tour
725
00:39:41,130 --> 00:39:43,798
To try and get straight.
726
00:39:43,798 --> 00:39:46,835
So Liz come out with the kids.
727
00:39:46,835 --> 00:39:50,172
Considering all the places
we've left him before,
728
00:39:50,172 --> 00:39:52,975
I have to say it was marvelous.
729
00:39:52,975 --> 00:39:55,344
["Can't Find My Way Home"
plays]
730
00:39:55,344 --> 00:40:01,250
* You are the reason
I've been waiting so long *
731
00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:05,787
* Somebody holds the key *
732
00:40:05,787 --> 00:40:08,523
* Well, I'm near the end *
733
00:40:08,523 --> 00:40:13,495
* And I just ain't got
the time *
734
00:40:14,863 --> 00:40:16,932
* And I'm wasted *
735
00:40:16,932 --> 00:40:22,337
* And I can't find my way home *
736
00:40:22,337 --> 00:40:25,340
Only at that time,
there was more heroin on Hawaii
737
00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:28,010
Than there was in Los Angeles.
738
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:31,780
It wasn't a good place to be
to get straight.
739
00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:34,416
So we decided to go to Jamaica.
740
00:40:34,416 --> 00:40:37,352
That's when I flew my car out.
741
00:40:37,352 --> 00:40:42,091
That is wild, to fly your car
over to Jamaica.
742
00:40:42,091 --> 00:40:44,393
That's crazy.
743
00:40:44,393 --> 00:40:49,098
You get to feel that the money
is inexhaustible,
744
00:40:49,098 --> 00:40:50,899
Which, of course, it isn't.
745
00:40:50,899 --> 00:40:55,170
It was like nearly three months
after the last gig
746
00:40:55,170 --> 00:40:57,572
That I came back to London.
747
00:40:57,572 --> 00:41:02,244
I'd brought back quite a lot
of dope in some masks and stuff.
748
00:41:02,244 --> 00:41:04,513
And so I went to see Stevie
749
00:41:04,513 --> 00:41:08,183
With a bag of grass
as a little present.
750
00:41:08,183 --> 00:41:11,653
And he told me that Eric
had gone off
751
00:41:11,653 --> 00:41:14,056
With Delaney and Bonnie
752
00:41:14,056 --> 00:41:16,725
And he was getting Traffic
back together.
753
00:41:16,725 --> 00:41:20,395
I take full responsibility
for having, you know,
754
00:41:20,395 --> 00:41:22,597
Strong interests
in going somewhere else.
755
00:41:22,597 --> 00:41:27,202
But they wouldn't have been
quite so strong
756
00:41:27,202 --> 00:41:30,139
If the core of the band
had been better.
757
00:41:30,139 --> 00:41:34,209
Were you hurt at all that Eric
had left without telling you?
758
00:41:34,209 --> 00:41:37,279
No.
You could see it coming.
759
00:41:37,279 --> 00:41:39,748
Something to do with me
getting so fucked up
760
00:41:39,748 --> 00:41:42,217
On the end of the tour.
761
00:41:42,217 --> 00:41:46,288
He's the best friend I've got
on this planet
762
00:41:46,288 --> 00:41:49,824
And always will be, okay?
763
00:41:49,824 --> 00:41:54,163
Whether it be polo
or the drums or drugs,
764
00:41:54,163 --> 00:41:57,399
Ginger seems to always go
full force
765
00:41:57,399 --> 00:41:59,334
Into whatever he's doing.
766
00:41:59,334 --> 00:42:02,337
Compulsion.
We're talking about compulsion.
767
00:42:02,337 --> 00:42:07,576
You know, what's the payoff
in being compulsive?
768
00:42:07,576 --> 00:42:12,214
You know, for Ginger, I'm not
gonna be his doctor in this
769
00:42:12,214 --> 00:42:15,317
Or psychologist
or make a diagnosis.
770
00:42:15,317 --> 00:42:17,852
I can't make a diagnosis
of Ginger.
771
00:42:17,852 --> 00:42:20,789
When I was driving in today,
772
00:42:20,789 --> 00:42:23,758
I thought, "Well, do I know
Ginger well?"
773
00:42:23,758 --> 00:42:25,227
Do I?"
774
00:42:25,227 --> 00:42:29,331
I've been with him
in fairly rarefied situations,
775
00:42:29,331 --> 00:42:31,933
Which allowed me to see
certain sides of him.
776
00:42:31,933 --> 00:42:34,936
I probably haven't seen him
like you've seen him,
777
00:42:34,936 --> 00:42:38,073
Because I didn't take
the effort, the time,
778
00:42:38,073 --> 00:42:41,876
The risk to step into his life
and become a part of it
779
00:42:41,876 --> 00:42:43,678
For any length of time.
780
00:42:43,678 --> 00:42:45,614
You know,
I've always pulled back
781
00:42:45,614 --> 00:42:48,683
When it started to get scary
or threatening
782
00:42:48,683 --> 00:42:51,220
Or just difficult.
783
00:42:52,587 --> 00:42:55,457
You guys want to wait a minute?
'Cause I'm about to cry.
784
00:42:55,457 --> 00:42:56,325
Why?
785
00:42:56,325 --> 00:42:58,560
'Cause, I mean...
786
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,862
[Voice breaking]
I might cry.
787
00:43:00,862 --> 00:43:02,531
Why? Because Ginger is...
788
00:43:02,531 --> 00:43:05,434
He's all by himself, all alone,
in the woods or something.
789
00:43:05,434 --> 00:43:07,068
Well, he's got a wife.
He's got...
790
00:43:07,068 --> 00:43:08,570
Oh!
Well, then I won't.
791
00:43:08,570 --> 00:43:09,871
[Laughter]
792
00:43:09,871 --> 00:43:13,708
You guys are trying to live
a pretty quiet life here.
793
00:43:13,708 --> 00:43:16,678
As quiet as possible.
794
00:43:20,782 --> 00:43:23,585
Lisa's a little angel.
795
00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:25,720
Hello, Lisa.
796
00:43:27,522 --> 00:43:29,624
I'm extremely fond of her.
797
00:43:29,624 --> 00:43:31,860
I think of her
like she's my own.
798
00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:33,995
I wasn't studying yesterday.
799
00:43:33,995 --> 00:43:35,264
[Both laugh]
800
00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:38,367
She's a great little kid.
801
00:43:38,367 --> 00:43:42,070
It's really nice
to have a family again.
802
00:43:42,070 --> 00:43:43,605
[Laughter]
803
00:43:43,605 --> 00:43:49,411
If that falls apart,
I really don't know what to do.
804
00:43:49,411 --> 00:43:52,247
So Ginger is a good stepfather?
805
00:43:55,950 --> 00:43:57,886
Stepfather.
806
00:43:59,254 --> 00:44:01,456
Yeah.
807
00:44:01,456 --> 00:44:06,428
Do you find yourself
to be a tragic hero?
808
00:44:06,428 --> 00:44:08,363
Go on with the interview.
809
00:44:08,363 --> 00:44:11,666
Stop trying to be
an intellectual dickhead.
810
00:44:11,666 --> 00:44:13,668
["Toady" plays]
811
00:44:13,668 --> 00:44:14,869
[Drum solo]
812
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:43,532
[Music continues]
813
00:44:49,304 --> 00:44:51,940
* Tell me *
814
00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:55,176
* Tell me, Toady *
815
00:44:55,176 --> 00:44:56,711
Ginger's not just a player.
816
00:44:56,711 --> 00:44:58,947
He's also a bandleader
and arranger.
817
00:44:58,947 --> 00:45:02,251
We were all brought up
on the big-band era, you know?
818
00:45:02,251 --> 00:45:04,986
And that's what Air force
was like.
819
00:45:04,986 --> 00:45:07,422
* Tell me *
820
00:45:07,422 --> 00:45:10,459
* Tell me, Toady *
821
00:45:10,459 --> 00:45:14,095
I made a stupid decision
of saying, "Okay."
822
00:45:14,095 --> 00:45:17,632
"Well, I've made my money
with Cream and Blind Faith,
823
00:45:17,632 --> 00:45:21,002
So I will pay the band
all the money."
824
00:45:21,002 --> 00:45:23,438
Just ridiculously expensive...
Hotel bills,
825
00:45:23,438 --> 00:45:25,574
The transportation, the wages.
826
00:45:25,574 --> 00:45:28,943
The name came from
the air force section
827
00:45:28,943 --> 00:45:33,181
Of the Duke Ellington Band,
which was the junkie section.
828
00:45:33,181 --> 00:45:34,849
It really was an air force.
829
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:37,752
I think somebody said that they
were flying at 30,000 feet,
830
00:45:37,752 --> 00:45:39,288
I think it was.
[Laughs]
831
00:45:39,288 --> 00:45:40,922
It was a very high band.
832
00:45:40,922 --> 00:45:43,792
[Music continues]
833
00:45:43,792 --> 00:45:47,662
Now they're saying Air force
was some kind of a fusion band.
834
00:45:47,662 --> 00:45:49,998
I don't know
what the fuck that is.
835
00:45:49,998 --> 00:45:55,304
You can't put music in boxes,
especially my music.
836
00:45:55,304 --> 00:45:57,639
[Music ends]
837
00:46:03,412 --> 00:46:05,447
It was really exciting.
838
00:46:05,447 --> 00:46:07,148
I thought it was gonna last
forever.
839
00:46:07,148 --> 00:46:11,786
But, you know, Ginger's bands
have tended to be like that.
840
00:46:11,786 --> 00:46:13,187
Didn't they?
841
00:46:13,187 --> 00:46:14,623
Like what?
842
00:46:14,623 --> 00:46:16,491
You hear them,
you think, "This is fabulous."
843
00:46:16,491 --> 00:46:17,926
It's gonna go on forever."
844
00:46:17,926 --> 00:46:19,428
And it lasts a week.
845
00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:22,431
Maybe that's just part
of being him, you know?
846
00:46:22,431 --> 00:46:24,165
I don't know.
847
00:46:24,165 --> 00:46:27,769
Because of his fame from Cream
and Blind Faith,
848
00:46:27,769 --> 00:46:29,504
You know, he was considered
849
00:46:29,504 --> 00:46:31,573
The great rock drummer
of his generation.
850
00:46:31,573 --> 00:46:34,409
But as Ginger will tell you,
he was a jazz drummer.
851
00:46:34,409 --> 00:46:38,179
The general public
are so fucking dumb.
852
00:46:38,179 --> 00:46:43,685
That, you know, like, that
anybody could think of Bonham
853
00:46:43,685 --> 00:46:48,657
Was anywhere near
this kind of drummer I am,
854
00:46:48,657 --> 00:46:51,426
It's just extraordinary.
855
00:46:51,426 --> 00:46:53,928
Bonham had technique,
856
00:46:53,928 --> 00:46:57,699
But he couldn't swing
a fucking sack of shit.
857
00:46:57,699 --> 00:47:00,369
Or Moonie, for that matter.
858
00:47:00,369 --> 00:47:04,873
I mean, if they were still alive
today, ask them.
859
00:47:04,873 --> 00:47:07,041
[Laughs]
860
00:47:07,041 --> 00:47:08,377
When they think of Ginger,
861
00:47:08,377 --> 00:47:10,144
They think of Keith Moon
and Bonham.
862
00:47:10,144 --> 00:47:12,747
No, no, no, no.
863
00:47:12,747 --> 00:47:15,350
Ginger was nothing like
those players.
864
00:47:15,350 --> 00:47:17,952
His musical capabilities
are full-spectrum.
865
00:47:17,952 --> 00:47:20,121
He can write
and compose and arrange,
866
00:47:20,121 --> 00:47:22,824
And he has an ear,
and he is harmonic.
867
00:47:22,824 --> 00:47:24,759
He's a fully formed musician.
868
00:47:24,759 --> 00:47:27,362
He wanted to be respected
by the jazz drummers,
869
00:47:27,362 --> 00:47:29,230
So Ginger did these drum battles
870
00:47:29,230 --> 00:47:32,367
With the guys he looked up to,
thought were the great drummers.
871
00:47:32,367 --> 00:47:34,569
[Drum solo]
872
00:47:37,506 --> 00:47:39,374
[Whistling]
873
00:47:43,645 --> 00:47:45,714
[Drumming continues]
874
00:48:12,941 --> 00:48:14,809
[Crowd cheering]
875
00:48:21,483 --> 00:48:23,685
[Cheers and applause]
876
00:48:32,293 --> 00:48:33,662
[Applause]
877
00:48:33,662 --> 00:48:35,730
What always happens
is you end up,
878
00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:37,599
If you're playing
with a good guy,
879
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:39,434
You end up playing together.
880
00:49:06,227 --> 00:49:08,497
[Drumming continues]
881
00:49:09,764 --> 00:49:12,667
[Cheers and applause]
882
00:49:14,569 --> 00:49:16,771
By him taking
all these guys on...
883
00:49:16,771 --> 00:49:19,741
And nobody else really did
in the "rock world"...
884
00:49:19,741 --> 00:49:23,745
He was considered to be
in that elite echelon
885
00:49:23,745 --> 00:49:26,080
Of great jazz drummers,
which, ultimately,
886
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,149
That's what he considered
himself to be...
887
00:49:28,149 --> 00:49:30,819
The great jazz drummer
of his generation.
888
00:49:30,819 --> 00:49:33,755
[British accent]
Not a fucking rock drummer.
889
00:49:33,755 --> 00:49:36,958
So, here you are,
at the height of your career.
890
00:49:36,958 --> 00:49:39,427
You've battled
all the greatest drummers.
891
00:49:39,427 --> 00:49:41,095
You've become a bandleader.
892
00:49:41,095 --> 00:49:44,032
[Laughing]
And you decide to go to Africa.
893
00:49:44,032 --> 00:49:45,800
Oh, God.
894
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:55,309
Way back, when Phil turned me on
to all the African drummers,
895
00:49:55,309 --> 00:50:03,918
It was obviously very high on my
priorities to go to Africa.
896
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:08,356
Ginger says, "How do you feel
about filming me"
897
00:50:08,356 --> 00:50:09,591
Going across the Sahara?"
898
00:50:09,591 --> 00:50:11,425
And I said,
"How are you proposing
899
00:50:11,425 --> 00:50:13,061
To go across the Sahara,
Ginger?"
900
00:50:13,061 --> 00:50:14,663
And he said, "I'm gonna drive."
901
00:50:14,663 --> 00:50:17,732
* Ah-ah-ah-ah *
902
00:50:17,732 --> 00:50:20,735
* Ah-ah-ah *
903
00:50:20,735 --> 00:50:24,205
* Ah-ah-ah-ah *
904
00:50:24,205 --> 00:50:25,473
* Ah-ah-ah *
905
00:50:25,473 --> 00:50:27,976
[Man singing
in native language]
906
00:50:30,278 --> 00:50:33,682
* Ah-ah-ah *
907
00:50:33,682 --> 00:50:36,551
* Ah-ah-ah *
908
00:50:36,551 --> 00:50:39,520
* Ah-ah-ah *
909
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,990
[Singing continues]
910
00:50:48,362 --> 00:50:52,133
There was that questing spirit
of a true artist there.
911
00:50:52,133 --> 00:50:54,969
It was news
that Ginger dropped out,
912
00:50:54,969 --> 00:50:57,171
Or he went following the groove.
913
00:50:57,171 --> 00:50:58,940
[Music continues]
914
00:51:01,542 --> 00:51:03,778
From Africa.
915
00:51:03,778 --> 00:51:05,980
[Drums playing]
916
00:51:08,049 --> 00:51:11,886
He predates everybody else
who later on said,
917
00:51:11,886 --> 00:51:14,388
"We discovered
the sounds of Africa."
918
00:51:14,388 --> 00:51:18,392
The only person that made me
cry before playing was Phil,
919
00:51:18,392 --> 00:51:20,128
And these guys had me crying,
920
00:51:20,128 --> 00:51:24,465
Because the time things they
were doing were just so subtle.
921
00:51:24,465 --> 00:51:27,135
This is why I went to Africa.
922
00:51:31,339 --> 00:51:34,108
When I arrived in Nigeria,
923
00:51:34,108 --> 00:51:38,713
I went straight
to the Afro Spot.
924
00:51:38,713 --> 00:51:41,449
And there was Fela
playing onstage.
925
00:51:41,449 --> 00:51:47,021
And it was just like, "Wow, man.
This is cool."
926
00:51:47,021 --> 00:51:49,223
[Up-tempo music playing]
927
00:51:52,093 --> 00:51:57,832
It was unlike anything
anybody else was playing.
928
00:51:57,832 --> 00:52:00,301
Fela was like,
"That's Ginger Baker!
929
00:52:00,301 --> 00:52:02,637
That's Ginger Baker!"
930
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:06,174
Who is Fela?
931
00:52:06,174 --> 00:52:09,543
Some say he's the greatest
musician in Africa,
932
00:52:09,543 --> 00:52:13,281
Others that he's a prophet,
still others that he's a rebel,
933
00:52:13,281 --> 00:52:14,515
A revolutionary tribune.
934
00:52:14,515 --> 00:52:17,819
Fela was one of the most
important, influential,
935
00:52:17,819 --> 00:52:20,822
And courageous musicians
of the 20th century.
936
00:52:20,822 --> 00:52:22,857
[Music continues]
937
00:52:22,857 --> 00:52:24,926
Ginger got the opportunity
938
00:52:24,926 --> 00:52:27,561
To sit in the drum chair
for a while
939
00:52:27,561 --> 00:52:28,797
Of one of the greatest bands
940
00:52:28,797 --> 00:52:30,899
Ever to play
African popular music.
941
00:52:34,202 --> 00:52:36,938
[Singing in native language]
942
00:52:43,011 --> 00:52:46,547
Ginger was very close
to everybody...
943
00:52:46,547 --> 00:52:49,550
The girls, my father, the band.
944
00:52:49,550 --> 00:52:52,286
It was a color-blind situation.
945
00:52:52,286 --> 00:52:56,024
They smoked together, they drank
together, had women together.
946
00:52:56,024 --> 00:52:58,026
They played together...
Everything together.
947
00:52:58,026 --> 00:53:00,228
[Music continues]
948
00:53:27,455 --> 00:53:31,059
The first... or only Western
musician to go out there
949
00:53:31,059 --> 00:53:33,394
And immerse himself
and live in it,
950
00:53:33,394 --> 00:53:36,798
In the squalor of it,
was Ginger.
951
00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:44,939
And this studio became
the first 16-track studio
952
00:53:44,939 --> 00:53:47,608
We've got in our country.
953
00:53:47,608 --> 00:53:49,543
Fela stopped using EMI
954
00:53:49,543 --> 00:53:53,414
And started to use
Ginger Baker's studio.
955
00:53:53,414 --> 00:53:58,086
Now, who leaves England
to go and record in Lagos?
956
00:53:58,086 --> 00:54:02,323
Africa at that time in Nigeria
was an absolute hotbed
957
00:54:02,323 --> 00:54:09,030
Of revolution, of death,
of unaccountable violence.
958
00:54:09,898 --> 00:54:14,035
It was a great place to be
in those days.
959
00:54:14,035 --> 00:54:16,938
[Mid-tempo rock music plays]
960
00:54:18,439 --> 00:54:22,310
I was in Africa
for a period of six years.
961
00:54:22,310 --> 00:54:25,713
It was sort of like
the "flower power" days
962
00:54:25,713 --> 00:54:27,782
In Nigeria, you know?
963
00:54:27,782 --> 00:54:30,885
You can't imagine
the '70s in Nigeria,
964
00:54:30,885 --> 00:54:33,888
How much fun they all had.
965
00:54:33,888 --> 00:54:36,090
[Music continues]
966
00:54:41,395 --> 00:54:44,866
Fela... We used to call him
the black president,
967
00:54:44,866 --> 00:54:47,335
And he formed
the Calakuta Party.
968
00:54:47,335 --> 00:54:51,639
And we all used to sit around
a table the shape of Africa,
969
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:54,408
And I was elected
one of the party.
970
00:54:54,408 --> 00:54:55,743
He was just cool.
971
00:54:55,743 --> 00:54:57,045
He was real cool.
972
00:54:57,045 --> 00:54:58,980
Ginger's a cool white boy.
973
00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:00,882
Meanwhile,
no one in Europe knew
974
00:55:00,882 --> 00:55:02,817
What the fuck was going on
there.
975
00:55:02,817 --> 00:55:04,018
Nobody what?
976
00:55:04,018 --> 00:55:05,419
Nobody in Europe,
977
00:55:05,419 --> 00:55:07,822
All the people you had
left behind, you know?
978
00:55:07,822 --> 00:55:10,424
What people I'd left behind?
979
00:55:11,625 --> 00:55:14,028
I think he just goes.
980
00:55:14,028 --> 00:55:15,696
That's a great thing in music.
981
00:55:15,696 --> 00:55:18,199
You don't want to be thinking
too much when you're playing.
982
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:21,135
He who hesitates is lost.
983
00:55:21,135 --> 00:55:23,037
Just go.
984
00:55:23,037 --> 00:55:26,040
He really desperately
wanted a boy.
985
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,343
And when he got a boy,
he was awful to him.
986
00:55:29,343 --> 00:55:32,013
He said some nasty things
to my mom.
987
00:55:33,047 --> 00:55:36,484
Like, "I wish I had black kids,"
or something.
988
00:55:36,484 --> 00:55:38,586
Were you guys still in contact
with him?
989
00:55:38,586 --> 00:55:39,720
Yeah, yeah.
990
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:40,989
He would just call you?
991
00:55:40,989 --> 00:55:44,658
Yeah.
Like, "Hello. I'm in prison."
992
00:55:44,658 --> 00:55:46,060
"Fine."
993
00:55:46,060 --> 00:55:49,330
I was approached
by Range Rover.
994
00:55:49,330 --> 00:55:55,136
Would I join them in a three-car
team for this Show 1000 rally?
995
00:55:55,136 --> 00:55:57,939
Anyway, I arrived
at the checkpoint
996
00:55:57,939 --> 00:56:00,608
And did 180
and came in backwards.
997
00:56:00,608 --> 00:56:03,544
And I heard this voice say,
"Bloody hell!
998
00:56:03,544 --> 00:56:06,247
The way you drive,
you should play polo."
999
00:56:06,247 --> 00:56:07,916
And I shouted out of the window,
1000
00:56:07,916 --> 00:56:10,084
"You've got to be
bloody kidding."
1001
00:56:10,084 --> 00:56:12,486
He said,
"Okay, Baker. Come with me."
1002
00:56:12,486 --> 00:56:14,022
So off we go.
1003
00:56:14,022 --> 00:56:15,823
And where do we go?
1004
00:56:15,823 --> 00:56:17,625
Lagos Polo Club.
1005
00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:22,030
And I've already downed about
eight or nine Bacardi and Cokes,
1006
00:56:22,030 --> 00:56:24,899
And Colin comes up to me
and says, "Right, Baker."
1007
00:56:24,899 --> 00:56:27,001
It's time you got on a horse."
1008
00:56:27,001 --> 00:56:30,238
And Colin gets out a whip
and goes whack!
1009
00:56:30,238 --> 00:56:34,708
Boom! It's off
like fucking 900 miles an hour.
1010
00:56:34,708 --> 00:56:36,310
Absolutely full gallop.
1011
00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:39,280
My sunglasses were around
one side of my face,
1012
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,683
And my beard's around the other,
but I was still on the horse.
1013
00:56:42,683 --> 00:56:45,586
And I said, "Where's
the fucking brakes, Colin?"
1014
00:56:45,586 --> 00:56:47,488
[Laughs]
1015
00:56:47,488 --> 00:56:50,591
So I'd found
an old pair of boots
1016
00:56:50,591 --> 00:56:55,596
And an old polo stick and a hat,
and I became a poloist.
1017
00:56:55,596 --> 00:56:57,398
[Laughs]
1018
00:56:57,398 --> 00:56:58,799
[Drums playing]
1019
00:56:58,799 --> 00:57:00,168
The class of Nigerians
1020
00:57:00,168 --> 00:57:03,804
That would have belonged
to the Lagos Polo Club
1021
00:57:03,804 --> 00:57:05,573
Were very elite people,
1022
00:57:05,573 --> 00:57:08,109
People that Fela would dismiss
as having a so-called
1023
00:57:08,109 --> 00:57:09,677
"Colonial mentality."
1024
00:57:09,677 --> 00:57:11,412
Those were definitely the people
1025
00:57:11,412 --> 00:57:14,848
That Fela was singing against
in the 1970s.
1026
00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:16,117
But it was later in the '70s
1027
00:57:16,117 --> 00:57:17,818
When Fela really got
more radicalized
1028
00:57:17,818 --> 00:57:20,354
And began to live the life
of a musical dissident.
1029
00:57:20,354 --> 00:57:22,790
All this nonsense
hanging around here.
1030
00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:24,158
They sit there in cars, man!
1031
00:57:24,158 --> 00:57:27,928
Fela took on
the government, the army.
1032
00:57:27,928 --> 00:57:32,000
He was determined
to become president.
1033
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,237
All the government top guys
played polo,
1034
00:57:36,237 --> 00:57:39,440
So they were always
at the Lagos Polo Club.
1035
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,609
So I was playing polo there
1036
00:57:41,609 --> 00:57:45,646
And hanging out with,
as it were, Fela's enemies.
1037
00:57:45,646 --> 00:57:49,317
And a lot of the people
on Fela's committee
1038
00:57:49,317 --> 00:57:56,157
Didn't like that and soured
Fela's mind against me.
1039
00:57:56,157 --> 00:57:58,559
I was pretty upset at the time.
1040
00:57:58,559 --> 00:57:59,927
About what?
1041
00:57:59,927 --> 00:58:06,334
Well, that Fela wouldn't play
with me, with his band.
1042
00:58:06,334 --> 00:58:09,470
On Friday, February 18, 1977,
1043
00:58:09,470 --> 00:58:12,073
A thousand-odd soldiers
surround Calakuta,
1044
00:58:12,073 --> 00:58:13,674
Machine guns at the ready.
1045
00:58:13,674 --> 00:58:14,975
They plunder the house.
1046
00:58:14,975 --> 00:58:17,945
Their clubs spare neither
pregnant women nor children.
1047
00:58:17,945 --> 00:58:20,214
Fela himself
is seriously beaten.
1048
00:58:20,214 --> 00:58:23,017
Fela and his tribe
find themselves in prison.
1049
00:58:23,017 --> 00:58:25,153
It was starting to go wrong,
yeah.
1050
00:58:25,153 --> 00:58:28,222
But, I mean, I left Nigeria
1051
00:58:28,222 --> 00:58:31,059
Because I lost my studio,
really.
1052
00:58:31,059 --> 00:58:33,327
It took us three years
to build it.
1053
00:58:33,327 --> 00:58:35,963
It's been open
just over two years now.
1054
00:58:35,963 --> 00:58:37,565
It's coming along great.
1055
00:58:45,873 --> 00:58:48,242
Presumably, there must be
a lot of music there.
1056
00:58:48,242 --> 00:58:50,378
Yeah.
We kept pretty busy.
1057
00:58:50,378 --> 00:58:52,713
We were working
all the time, yeah.
1058
00:58:52,713 --> 00:58:56,184
I think as a businessperson,
he's a walking disaster area.
1059
00:58:56,184 --> 00:59:00,854
Ginger's out there, discovering
a whole new world of sound...
1060
00:59:00,854 --> 00:59:02,656
Literally a whole new world
of sound...
1061
00:59:02,656 --> 00:59:07,328
And recording it in good faith,
not even blind faith.
1062
00:59:07,328 --> 00:59:09,097
Along comes
a gangster record company
1063
00:59:09,097 --> 00:59:11,031
And says, "We can take advantage
of that."
1064
00:59:11,031 --> 00:59:12,733
And Ginger was just taken
for a ride.
1065
00:59:12,733 --> 00:59:15,136
He said,
"You can't build a studio here.
1066
00:59:15,136 --> 00:59:17,004
This is our territory."
1067
00:59:17,004 --> 00:59:20,408
They banned all the artists
they had under contract
1068
00:59:20,408 --> 00:59:23,944
From using my studio.
1069
00:59:23,944 --> 00:59:26,247
I told him to fuck off.
1070
00:59:30,017 --> 00:59:31,419
So shortly after that,
1071
00:59:31,419 --> 00:59:34,555
Three armed soldiers entered
the studio.
1072
00:59:34,555 --> 00:59:37,525
So I just leapt out of the room,
over the balcony,
1073
00:59:37,525 --> 00:59:43,631
Got in the Range Rover, and went
straight towards the road.
1074
00:59:43,631 --> 00:59:44,998
[Gunshots]
1075
00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:48,068
I could hear all these gunshots
and ricochets going on
1076
00:59:48,068 --> 00:59:50,704
Where the police
are trying to shoot me.
1077
00:59:50,704 --> 00:59:53,141
Why did Ginger leave?
1078
00:59:53,141 --> 00:59:55,243
I just know
things were not going right.
1079
00:59:55,243 --> 00:59:59,780
But when he left,
Fela and him lost contact.
1080
01:00:36,684 --> 01:00:40,087
You had been off the scene
in Africa for so many years.
1081
01:00:40,087 --> 01:00:43,691
You must have missed being
a rock star to a certain extent.
1082
01:00:43,691 --> 01:00:45,626
No, I didn't.
1083
01:00:46,627 --> 01:00:51,432
I came back to England to play
with the Gurvitz brothers,
1084
01:00:51,432 --> 01:00:53,834
For which I got some money.
1085
01:00:53,834 --> 01:00:59,006
I'd just lost a fortune, so it
was a matter of doing some work.
1086
01:00:59,740 --> 01:01:02,910
That was really
all he could get, wasn't it?
1087
01:01:02,910 --> 01:01:05,513
At that time,
nobody wanted to work with him.
1088
01:01:06,947 --> 01:01:09,016
* Now is the time *
1089
01:01:09,016 --> 01:01:11,051
* Get it all together *
1090
01:01:11,051 --> 01:01:13,887
Shut up, you bloody fool!
1091
01:01:13,887 --> 01:01:15,155
* Now is the time *
1092
01:01:15,155 --> 01:01:17,991
- Hey!
- * Put yourself together *
1093
01:01:17,991 --> 01:01:23,497
Yeah, I grew up in the downward
spiral of his life,
1094
01:01:23,497 --> 01:01:25,866
Everything collapsing
and falling apart.
1095
01:01:25,866 --> 01:01:30,438
The mistake I made
was letting polo take over
1096
01:01:30,438 --> 01:01:32,806
From thinking about work.
1097
01:01:32,806 --> 01:01:36,610
The tax people saw this film
the BBC did
1098
01:01:36,610 --> 01:01:40,614
Of these horses arriving
and gave the impression
1099
01:01:40,614 --> 01:01:42,883
That I'd got a hell of a lot
of money.
1100
01:01:42,883 --> 01:01:47,688
Only this week, 30 polo ponies
arrived from Argentina.
1101
01:01:47,688 --> 01:01:51,091
This air shipment guarantees
Ginger Baker's commitment
1102
01:01:51,091 --> 01:01:54,828
To a sport that stands for
everything he isn't.
1103
01:01:54,828 --> 01:01:57,665
I went absolutely broke.
1104
01:01:57,665 --> 01:02:02,703
It was a very bad time
altogether.
1105
01:02:02,703 --> 01:02:08,075
He left my mom for my first
boyfriend's sister.
1106
01:02:08,576 --> 01:02:12,880
That was his second wife,
was my first boyfriend's sister.
1107
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,083
There's a good idea!
1108
01:02:16,083 --> 01:02:17,718
She was 18, you know?
1109
01:02:17,718 --> 01:02:19,720
[Laughs]
1110
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,623
Well, maybe 17.
I don't know.
1111
01:02:22,623 --> 01:02:25,192
She was still going to school.
1112
01:02:25,926 --> 01:02:29,463
She was a very naughty-type
girl, yeah.
1113
01:02:31,299 --> 01:02:35,068
Very sexy-type girl.
1114
01:02:35,068 --> 01:02:37,405
* Powder blues *
1115
01:02:41,975 --> 01:02:46,414
The tax people go, "You owe us,
you know, £150,000."
1116
01:02:46,414 --> 01:02:48,982
And it's like, you know,
he doesn't have £150,000,
1117
01:02:48,982 --> 01:02:50,718
So they took the house.
1118
01:02:50,718 --> 01:02:52,586
We'd lived in that house
all our lives.
1119
01:02:52,586 --> 01:02:54,154
And then one day you come home
1120
01:02:54,154 --> 01:02:55,723
And there's a whole load
of police
1121
01:02:55,723 --> 01:02:57,224
And a whole load of bailiffs,
1122
01:02:57,224 --> 01:02:59,226
And they just won't let you
back into your house.
1123
01:02:59,226 --> 01:03:01,762
And they just take everything
that you've ever owned.
1124
01:03:01,762 --> 01:03:03,631
I just, you know, took my drums
1125
01:03:03,631 --> 01:03:06,634
And went and lived
on the streets, lived in squats.
1126
01:03:06,634 --> 01:03:09,102
You know, I used to
tie my drums to my hands
1127
01:03:09,102 --> 01:03:12,906
When I went to sleep
so that no one could take them.
1128
01:03:12,906 --> 01:03:15,242
You know, I don't think
he should've had a family.
1129
01:03:15,242 --> 01:03:17,645
I think he would have been
way better off in his life
1130
01:03:17,645 --> 01:03:20,814
If he'd never had kids and just,
you know, did his thing.
1131
01:03:22,182 --> 01:03:25,753
He would have left
a lot less of a mess behind.
1132
01:03:27,020 --> 01:03:30,424
Most of the time Ginger was
with Baker Gurvitz Army,
1133
01:03:30,424 --> 01:03:32,793
He wasn't really
on the hard stuff.
1134
01:03:32,793 --> 01:03:33,861
Oh, yeah.
1135
01:03:33,861 --> 01:03:38,932
I'm a lot, you know...
better in myself.
1136
01:03:38,932 --> 01:03:41,234
Fit and well,
if you like, you know?
1137
01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:42,870
The hard stuff came back
1138
01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:45,673
In the recording
of "Hearts on Fire."
1139
01:03:45,673 --> 01:03:48,942
[Mid-tempo rock music plays]
1140
01:03:54,281 --> 01:03:59,052
It was sort of like
a pretty disastrous period,
1141
01:03:59,052 --> 01:04:01,589
So I got back into using.
1142
01:04:01,589 --> 01:04:03,357
And that's
when you sort of realize
1143
01:04:03,357 --> 01:04:08,295
Your idols have feet of clay,
the slight inkling coming in
1144
01:04:08,295 --> 01:04:10,764
That this person isn't
in control.
1145
01:04:10,764 --> 01:04:14,301
The cameraman's in control.
1146
01:04:14,301 --> 01:04:16,370
Hello.
1147
01:04:16,370 --> 01:04:18,171
Um...
1148
01:04:18,171 --> 01:04:20,073
What were you saying?
1149
01:04:20,073 --> 01:04:22,376
[Music continues]
1150
01:04:41,328 --> 01:04:43,731
[Guitar strums,
feedback rumbles]
1151
01:04:43,731 --> 01:04:46,166
Jeff, get us a glass of wine,
will you?
1152
01:04:46,166 --> 01:04:48,502
[Clattering]
1153
01:04:48,502 --> 01:04:51,171
Fucking hell, man.
I tried hard.
1154
01:04:51,171 --> 01:04:52,940
[Tape rewinds]
1155
01:04:52,940 --> 01:04:57,077
I'd decided, "I'd better
get away from anybody I know"
1156
01:04:57,077 --> 01:04:59,747
If I'm ever going to
get straight."
1157
01:04:59,747 --> 01:05:03,150
So I decided to go to Italy.
1158
01:05:03,150 --> 01:05:05,753
I went to Italy with Sarah,
1159
01:05:05,753 --> 01:05:09,490
Living on this place right
on top of a fucking mountain,
1160
01:05:09,490 --> 01:05:12,626
And I've never lived
in England since.
1161
01:05:12,626 --> 01:05:14,462
I didn't know anybody.
1162
01:05:14,462 --> 01:05:16,630
I didn't even speak Italian.
1163
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:20,100
And the house was falling down.
1164
01:05:20,100 --> 01:05:23,136
I met him in '86,
1165
01:05:23,136 --> 01:05:27,140
And I was asked to find him by
a singer called Johnny Rotten,
1166
01:05:27,140 --> 01:05:28,909
Who was in The Sex Pistols.
1167
01:05:28,909 --> 01:05:33,313
He was living
in a pretty obscure situation,
1168
01:05:33,313 --> 01:05:34,982
Rough situation.
1169
01:05:34,982 --> 01:05:38,185
And in the house, which was
completely in kind of shambles,
1170
01:05:38,185 --> 01:05:42,590
I think there was two horses
and seven dogs, no electricity,
1171
01:05:42,590 --> 01:05:44,625
And a room that overlooked
the mountain
1172
01:05:44,625 --> 01:05:46,594
With a drum kit in it...
Only a drum kit.
1173
01:05:46,594 --> 01:05:50,030
But when he played in that room
and it echoed over the hills,
1174
01:05:50,030 --> 01:05:53,534
You could hear people
like five miles away, screaming,
1175
01:05:53,534 --> 01:05:55,302
"Ginger!
'Wheels of fire'!"
1176
01:05:55,302 --> 01:05:59,272
Sarah obviously married him
because she wanted a rock star.
1177
01:05:59,272 --> 01:06:00,708
Hey, you know?
1178
01:06:00,708 --> 01:06:03,210
And he took her
to this little bum-fuck town,
1179
01:06:03,210 --> 01:06:05,479
And she was like,
"Well, what the hell?" you know?
1180
01:06:05,479 --> 01:06:07,014
"Where's all
the rock-star shit?"
1181
01:06:07,014 --> 01:06:09,550
And when I went out there
with some young people,
1182
01:06:09,550 --> 01:06:11,919
She went off with one of them,
and that was the end of that.
1183
01:06:11,919 --> 01:06:13,487
And he was
absolutely devastated,
1184
01:06:13,487 --> 01:06:17,224
Because he couldn't handle
his own medicine, unfortunately.
1185
01:06:18,959 --> 01:06:21,629
Was he heartbroken?
Oh, yeah.
1186
01:06:21,629 --> 01:06:24,031
Yeah.
She fucked him good, yeah.
1187
01:06:24,031 --> 01:06:26,466
I was completely
fucking destroyed.
1188
01:06:26,466 --> 01:06:31,071
I was on my own with all my dogs
and a couple of horses.
1189
01:06:32,172 --> 01:06:34,374
[Chuckles]
1190
01:06:34,374 --> 01:06:37,711
I mean, it was terrible.
1191
01:06:37,711 --> 01:06:40,147
I went out there to get
drum lessons and stuff.
1192
01:06:40,147 --> 01:06:41,515
He had no money,
1193
01:06:41,515 --> 01:06:44,384
So he couldn't get me
a plane ticket back to England.
1194
01:06:44,384 --> 01:06:45,986
So we had to do this gig.
1195
01:06:45,986 --> 01:06:48,689
So I got really, really sick,
right, the day of the gig.
1196
01:06:48,689 --> 01:06:50,991
I was sitting on a chair,
and I was throwing up,
1197
01:06:50,991 --> 01:06:52,693
And I was just, like,
a really bad way.
1198
01:06:52,693 --> 01:06:54,728
I was like,
"I don't know if I can play."
1199
01:06:54,728 --> 01:06:57,598
So, you know,
he chops out a line of cocaine.
1200
01:06:57,598 --> 01:06:58,866
"Take this."
1201
01:06:58,866 --> 01:07:00,801
I'd never done cocaine before,
you know?
1202
01:07:00,801 --> 01:07:03,070
Like, "I'm 15 years old,"
you know?
1203
01:07:03,070 --> 01:07:05,305
So I ended up taking this line
of cocaine.
1204
01:07:05,305 --> 01:07:06,874
Played the gig fine.
1205
01:07:06,874 --> 01:07:10,143
Somehow, it just, like,
you know, makes you feel good.
1206
01:07:10,143 --> 01:07:14,047
So then he put me on a coach
back to England, you know,
1207
01:07:14,047 --> 01:07:15,616
And he took the rest
of the money
1208
01:07:15,616 --> 01:07:17,050
And wouldn't get me
a plane ticket.
1209
01:07:17,050 --> 01:07:19,052
And we made good money
at that gig.
1210
01:07:19,052 --> 01:07:21,121
[Dog barking]
1211
01:07:30,898 --> 01:07:36,169
I started getting these letters
from some guy in L.A.
1212
01:07:36,169 --> 01:07:37,805
He kept saying, "Oh, man",
1213
01:07:37,805 --> 01:07:40,974
You've got a fantastic career
in films."
1214
01:07:40,974 --> 01:07:43,276
[Gasps]
1215
01:07:43,276 --> 01:07:45,713
So I went to California.
1216
01:07:45,713 --> 01:07:48,081
[Drums playing]
1217
01:07:52,786 --> 01:07:56,389
"The Nasty Boys"
was the most extraordinary,
1218
01:07:56,389 --> 01:07:59,359
Stupid thing I've ever seen.
1219
01:07:59,359 --> 01:08:01,528
[Overdubbed scream]
1220
01:08:01,528 --> 01:08:02,896
"Aah!"
1221
01:08:02,896 --> 01:08:05,733
Hollywood.
Bah.
1222
01:08:05,733 --> 01:08:07,935
[Sighs]
That was the end of it for me.
1223
01:08:07,935 --> 01:08:09,903
I mean, it was just so stupid.
1224
01:08:09,903 --> 01:08:13,073
Last one on is a rotten egg.
1225
01:08:13,073 --> 01:08:14,842
I hadn't seen him for years.
1226
01:08:14,842 --> 01:08:17,244
When I arrived in L.A.,
I didn't recognize him,
1227
01:08:17,244 --> 01:08:19,312
'Cause he looked like
an old man.
1228
01:08:19,312 --> 01:08:21,014
And I thought, "Where's my dad?"
1229
01:08:21,014 --> 01:08:24,685
He actually put an ad
on Music Connection magazine
1230
01:08:24,685 --> 01:08:26,153
Looking for a job.
1231
01:08:26,153 --> 01:08:27,721
"Famous drummer from the '60s,"
1232
01:08:27,721 --> 01:08:29,289
You know,
"Ginger Baker from Cream,
1233
01:08:29,289 --> 01:08:31,759
Looking for a band
to play with."
1234
01:08:33,426 --> 01:08:35,495
Are you ready to go?
1235
01:08:35,495 --> 01:08:39,399
Okay. So this is a drum kit,
and I'm Ginger Baker.
1236
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,769
You hold the drumstick thusly,
1237
01:08:41,769 --> 01:08:45,105
And you play the stick
like that.
1238
01:08:45,105 --> 01:08:47,841
The 1960s were heady times
for Ginger Baker.
1239
01:08:47,841 --> 01:08:49,176
He was a drummer
1240
01:08:49,176 --> 01:08:51,144
For some of rock music's
most influential groups.
1241
01:08:51,144 --> 01:08:53,013
We visited Baker
at the ranch he rents
1242
01:08:53,013 --> 01:08:56,116
In the California desert
as he tries to come back.
1243
01:08:56,116 --> 01:08:58,786
Tell me about your relationship
these days with Eric Clapton.
1244
01:08:58,786 --> 01:09:00,287
Do you still speak?
1245
01:09:00,287 --> 01:09:04,091
I don't have a lot in common
with Eric nowadays.
1246
01:09:05,926 --> 01:09:08,862
He's sort of...
1247
01:09:09,997 --> 01:09:12,432
Changed considerably.
1248
01:09:12,432 --> 01:09:13,801
Ginger, the way he is
1249
01:09:13,801 --> 01:09:16,369
And the way, you know,
his self-medication
1250
01:09:16,369 --> 01:09:19,206
And all of the kind of things
that go on in his life,
1251
01:09:19,206 --> 01:09:23,043
I would find quite hard to be
around for any length of time.
1252
01:09:23,043 --> 01:09:25,545
It was quite threatening,
you know, to me
1253
01:09:25,545 --> 01:09:28,348
And I suppose what I would call
my sobriety.
1254
01:09:28,348 --> 01:09:30,918
But I've always
got time for him, you know,
1255
01:09:30,918 --> 01:09:32,720
And I know he knows that.
1256
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,089
There was nothing starlike
about him when I first met him.
1257
01:09:36,089 --> 01:09:38,225
He was pretty much penniless
when we met
1258
01:09:38,225 --> 01:09:42,429
And had spent everything to get
his horses over to America.
1259
01:09:42,429 --> 01:09:43,764
I was pretty happy.
1260
01:09:43,764 --> 01:09:45,532
I was gonna be going into
a master's program
1261
01:09:45,532 --> 01:09:47,134
And following medicine.
1262
01:09:47,134 --> 01:09:49,136
There was a lot of great stuff
ahead of me.
1263
01:09:49,136 --> 01:09:52,305
And then I got
a little derailed.
1264
01:09:52,305 --> 01:09:54,007
Was Karen a good person?
1265
01:09:56,977 --> 01:10:00,047
I don't want to discuss Karen.
1266
01:10:00,047 --> 01:10:03,917
He is somebody
who needs to be cared for,
1267
01:10:03,917 --> 01:10:06,286
And maybe that's what was
so attractive to me.
1268
01:10:06,286 --> 01:10:08,121
It was like,
"I can help this person."
1269
01:10:08,121 --> 01:10:10,423
He was somebody really
interesting to spend time with.
1270
01:10:10,423 --> 01:10:12,392
He started playing the drums,
and actually,
1271
01:10:12,392 --> 01:10:15,929
That was the first time
I really understood the drums.
1272
01:10:22,202 --> 01:10:24,171
Nobody wanted to play with him.
1273
01:10:24,171 --> 01:10:25,472
And this is L.A.
1274
01:10:25,472 --> 01:10:28,608
I mean, there should have been
gigs everywhere for him.
1275
01:10:28,608 --> 01:10:32,212
People were just like, "Mm. No.
It's too much trouble."
1276
01:10:34,147 --> 01:10:37,617
And then finally, he did join
The Masters of Reality.
1277
01:10:37,617 --> 01:10:40,353
* John Brown, bring him down *
1278
01:10:40,353 --> 01:10:43,791
* Pull his body to the ground *
1279
01:10:43,791 --> 01:10:46,226
[Mid-tempo rock music plays]
1280
01:10:48,261 --> 01:10:51,364
It was really
quite an enjoyable thing,
1281
01:10:51,364 --> 01:10:53,600
That Masters of Reality.
1282
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,537
They were trying to say it was
heavy metal, which it wasn't.
1283
01:10:57,537 --> 01:11:02,442
It was music
you couldn't put in a box, Jay.
1284
01:11:06,847 --> 01:11:09,349
"Sunrise on the Sufferbus."
1285
01:11:09,349 --> 01:11:12,085
Musician magazine
simply calls "Sufferbus"
1286
01:11:12,085 --> 01:11:14,587
"The best rock album
of the young decade."
1287
01:11:14,587 --> 01:11:17,524
When we were on tour
with Alice In Chains,
1288
01:11:17,524 --> 01:11:18,992
I think it was a mismatch.
1289
01:11:18,992 --> 01:11:20,961
Most of the crowd to begin with
1290
01:11:20,961 --> 01:11:23,430
Didn't know
who Ginger Baker was.
1291
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:26,633
Kids in the front row
with Megadeth T-shirts on
1292
01:11:26,633 --> 01:11:28,802
Throwing stuff at Ginger.
1293
01:11:28,802 --> 01:11:31,304
How much can a man take?
1294
01:11:31,304 --> 01:11:33,406
He was having to start
all over again,
1295
01:11:33,406 --> 01:11:34,842
Just like a new musician.
1296
01:11:34,842 --> 01:11:37,744
And they were treating him like,
"You know, you should be happy.
1297
01:11:37,744 --> 01:11:39,112
"We got you a tour bus.
1298
01:11:39,112 --> 01:11:40,713
A lot of musicians don't have
tour buses."
1299
01:11:40,713 --> 01:11:44,717
And he's like, "I did this,
you know, 30 years ago."
1300
01:11:44,717 --> 01:11:46,086
I don't want to do this again."
1301
01:11:46,086 --> 01:11:49,222
Do you think Nirvana
is the new Cream?
1302
01:11:50,323 --> 01:11:54,427
He had gotten a taste
of American music business,
1303
01:11:54,427 --> 01:11:58,231
Class of '93,
and he spit it out.
1304
01:11:58,231 --> 01:12:00,834
And I don't fucking blame him
one bit.
1305
01:12:00,834 --> 01:12:04,071
I didn't like L.A. at all.
1306
01:12:04,071 --> 01:12:06,806
He wasn't getting along
with the whole polo community
1307
01:12:06,806 --> 01:12:08,375
In California at that time,
1308
01:12:08,375 --> 01:12:11,644
So he was just ready to move on
and start all over again.
1309
01:12:11,644 --> 01:12:14,181
[Music continues]
1310
01:12:14,181 --> 01:12:16,850
When he left
to come out here to Colorado,
1311
01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:18,618
Nobody wanted to play with him
anymore.
1312
01:12:18,618 --> 01:12:21,922
So we started a polo club
called Mile High Polo.
1313
01:12:21,922 --> 01:12:23,523
And that worked out beautifully,
1314
01:12:23,523 --> 01:12:25,825
Because he didn't have to go
and play with other people.
1315
01:12:25,825 --> 01:12:27,127
They had to come play with him.
1316
01:12:27,127 --> 01:12:29,262
Here comes Ginger Baker.
1317
01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:30,563
Not only can he play drums,
1318
01:12:30,563 --> 01:12:32,665
But he can hit that ball
down the field.
1319
01:12:32,665 --> 01:12:35,402
People would come out, bring
their kids, bring their dogs.
1320
01:12:35,402 --> 01:12:37,938
We'd have polo
and then jazz in the park.
1321
01:12:37,938 --> 01:12:41,774
He would get off the horse,
come over in his polo uniform,
1322
01:12:41,774 --> 01:12:43,276
And sit down at the drums.
1323
01:12:43,276 --> 01:12:45,512
And then we'd just go
into something from there.
1324
01:12:45,512 --> 01:12:47,780
So it was a pretty wild
experience to see.
1325
01:12:47,780 --> 01:12:50,083
And you could feel
the passion of both things.
1326
01:12:50,083 --> 01:12:52,385
[Up-tempo jazz playing]
1327
01:12:56,990 --> 01:13:03,296
DJQ20... It was probably
the best band I had.
1328
01:13:03,296 --> 01:13:10,170
It was great playing jazz,
again... the music I came from.
1329
01:13:10,170 --> 01:13:12,372
[Music continues]
1330
01:13:13,606 --> 01:13:16,176
Kofi was living with us
at the time,
1331
01:13:16,176 --> 01:13:19,512
And we used to do
a lot of drum things together.
1332
01:13:26,386 --> 01:13:28,288
He's got a prodigious technique.
1333
01:13:28,288 --> 01:13:30,723
He's got the most amazing
technique.
1334
01:13:30,723 --> 01:13:32,659
He's a hell of a sweet kid.
1335
01:13:32,659 --> 01:13:35,595
It was the closest
I ever got to my dad.
1336
01:13:35,595 --> 01:13:37,564
It was great fun.
1337
01:13:38,465 --> 01:13:40,600
And I actually got to play
with my dad,
1338
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,536
And there was some form
of bond going on.
1339
01:13:43,536 --> 01:13:46,039
I mean, I wish I could have
done that my whole life.
1340
01:13:46,039 --> 01:13:48,008
It would've been great.
1341
01:14:04,958 --> 01:14:08,528
He comes out of jazz,
plays rock, plays world music.
1342
01:14:08,528 --> 01:14:11,298
I just thought, "We should
get some music together"
1343
01:14:11,298 --> 01:14:13,500
"That shows him
as this major cat,
1344
01:14:13,500 --> 01:14:16,436
"Not, you know,
a lesser light than Max Roach,
1345
01:14:16,436 --> 01:14:18,371
But his own personal music."
1346
01:14:18,371 --> 01:14:22,675
Ron so inspired Ginger,
Ginger began to practice.
1347
01:14:22,675 --> 01:14:24,511
He began to rehearse.
1348
01:14:24,511 --> 01:14:26,313
Then, finally,
they came to New York
1349
01:14:26,313 --> 01:14:28,215
And played a gig at the Iridium
1350
01:14:28,215 --> 01:14:31,418
And just blew the doors
off the place.
1351
01:14:31,418 --> 01:14:33,720
It went down
like a fucking bomb.
1352
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,289
[Up-tempo jazz playing]
1353
01:14:41,661 --> 01:14:45,298
At the Iridium in New York,
Max Roach came to the gig.
1354
01:14:45,298 --> 01:14:48,601
The first record he ever bought
was Max Roach.
1355
01:14:48,601 --> 01:14:51,138
I did one of the best solos
I've ever done
1356
01:14:51,138 --> 01:14:53,273
When Max was there.
1357
01:15:03,883 --> 01:15:06,819
[Cheers and applause]
1358
01:15:06,819 --> 01:15:09,156
I could see Ginger's face
on the break.
1359
01:15:09,156 --> 01:15:10,657
Max hugged him.
1360
01:15:10,657 --> 01:15:13,560
It was like Max was saying,
"Yeah. You're in here.
1361
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:14,827
You're one of us."
1362
01:15:14,827 --> 01:15:18,498
He just had tears
coming down his face,
1363
01:15:18,498 --> 01:15:22,369
Because he had achieved
the pinnacle of jazz
1364
01:15:22,369 --> 01:15:25,205
For an improvising musician
and a drummer.
1365
01:15:25,205 --> 01:15:28,275
He has a working band
that can go toe-to-toe
1366
01:15:28,275 --> 01:15:31,678
With any band in New York,
let alone planet Earth.
1367
01:15:31,678 --> 01:15:34,247
And he had not only
been accepted,
1368
01:15:34,247 --> 01:15:37,917
But accepted as a peer
and an equal.
1369
01:15:37,917 --> 01:15:40,687
The actual words Max said were,
1370
01:15:40,687 --> 01:15:44,657
"Jesus,
Ginger plays like a nigger."
1371
01:15:44,657 --> 01:15:46,193
[Chuckles]
1372
01:15:46,193 --> 01:15:49,062
That, coming from someone
like Max Roach,
1373
01:15:49,062 --> 01:15:54,934
Was an enormous compliment,
you know?
1374
01:15:55,835 --> 01:15:59,906
Four drummers in my life
that were absolute heroes.
1375
01:15:59,906 --> 01:16:02,375
Phil Seamen was the first one,
1376
01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:06,946
Max Roach, Art Blakey,
and Elvin Jones.
1377
01:16:06,946 --> 01:16:10,717
All four of them
became friends...
1378
01:16:10,717 --> 01:16:13,320
I mean friends.
1379
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:14,821
Dear friends.
1380
01:16:14,821 --> 01:16:19,359
[Voice breaking]
And that to me is worth...
1381
01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:22,562
More to me
than anything in the world.
1382
01:16:22,562 --> 01:16:25,565
[Down-tempo jazz playing]
1383
01:16:44,517 --> 01:16:48,655
Anywhere Ginger goes,
it's just a matter of time
1384
01:16:48,655 --> 01:16:51,858
Before there's gonna be
controversy going on.
1385
01:16:52,825 --> 01:16:55,662
Somebody did a very nasty
1386
01:16:55,662 --> 01:17:00,032
And resulted in Liz
getting arrested yesterday
1387
01:17:00,032 --> 01:17:02,735
By the immigration people.
1388
01:17:02,735 --> 01:17:05,172
He had an English groom
that was living with us.
1389
01:17:05,172 --> 01:17:08,441
But because her immigration
papers hadn't come through yet,
1390
01:17:08,441 --> 01:17:11,077
She was illegal,
and so they took her away.
1391
01:17:11,077 --> 01:17:13,880
And I started going crazy.
1392
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,617
And there was these two guys,
Louis & Floorwax,
1393
01:17:17,617 --> 01:17:20,520
Who had a radio show
that I was on.
1394
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,955
He came on the radio show
one morning
1395
01:17:22,955 --> 01:17:24,491
And started talking about it.
1396
01:17:24,491 --> 01:17:27,160
And he literally told everybody
to fuck off.
1397
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,596
I mean, this is a foul deed.
1398
01:17:29,596 --> 01:17:32,365
He said something about
the United States of America
1399
01:17:32,365 --> 01:17:35,101
Can kiss my ass or blow me
or something like that.
1400
01:17:35,101 --> 01:17:37,504
I think that's the last thing
he said on our show.
1401
01:17:37,504 --> 01:17:39,406
I believe that was
the final sentence.
1402
01:17:39,406 --> 01:17:41,208
So we ended the interview,
1403
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,676
And next thing we heard,
he was deported.
1404
01:17:43,676 --> 01:17:46,479
He thought he was seeing
the writing on the wall.
1405
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:48,381
I'm the next target now.
1406
01:17:48,381 --> 01:17:50,417
So he decided to grab his toys
and leave
1407
01:17:50,417 --> 01:17:52,685
Before they could kick him out.
1408
01:17:52,685 --> 01:17:55,722
People are saying it's one of
the best records he's ever done,
1409
01:17:55,722 --> 01:17:56,956
And then he left.
1410
01:17:56,956 --> 01:18:00,193
We just put this record out,
and he just split.
1411
01:18:00,193 --> 01:18:02,128
Kofi would come over
every single day
1412
01:18:02,128 --> 01:18:03,430
And play with his dad.
1413
01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:05,332
And then a couple days
before he left,
1414
01:18:05,332 --> 01:18:07,600
Kind of like you
with the cane to your face,
1415
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,802
Ginger gave a verbal cane
to Kofi's face
1416
01:18:09,802 --> 01:18:11,671
And just basically I think
told him,
1417
01:18:11,671 --> 01:18:13,540
"You're a piece-of-shit drummer,
1418
01:18:13,540 --> 01:18:15,842
And you'll never be what I am,
and you just can't get it."
1419
01:18:15,842 --> 01:18:21,080
And that was it...
His way of saying goodbye.
1420
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:22,749
Well, I asked him.
1421
01:18:22,749 --> 01:18:25,685
I said, "Do you even care about
anything I do or anything?"
1422
01:18:25,685 --> 01:18:27,620
He said, "No."
So I said, "Fine."
1423
01:18:27,620 --> 01:18:28,821
So I got in my car and left.
1424
01:18:28,821 --> 01:18:30,823
That was the last time
I saw him.
1425
01:18:30,823 --> 01:18:34,861
["Can't Find My Way Home"
plays]
1426
01:18:39,466 --> 01:18:42,369
I don't know
if it's his ability to move on
1427
01:18:42,369 --> 01:18:44,704
Or his inability to stay.
1428
01:18:44,704 --> 01:18:49,709
I think he has trouble staying,
and so moving on is his option.
1429
01:18:49,709 --> 01:18:51,611
I went with him
on several of those moves,
1430
01:18:51,611 --> 01:18:53,380
And then the last one,
I decided, "No."
1431
01:18:53,380 --> 01:18:56,249
I'm not up
for one more of these."
1432
01:18:56,249 --> 01:18:59,319
[Indistinct talking on P.A.]
1433
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,291
Maybe it goes back
to when his dad died.
1434
01:19:04,291 --> 01:19:07,494
He was just kind of taken away
abruptly,
1435
01:19:07,494 --> 01:19:09,762
And there was nothing
he could do about it.
1436
01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:15,868
The only time I remember
my dad clearly is on the train,
1437
01:19:15,868 --> 01:19:19,406
When he went off
after his last leave.
1438
01:19:21,541 --> 01:19:25,412
And as the train pulled off,
I broke away from my mom
1439
01:19:25,412 --> 01:19:27,414
And went running
down the platform
1440
01:19:27,414 --> 01:19:30,417
After the train, crying.
1441
01:19:32,084 --> 01:19:37,023
It was like I knew
he wasn't coming back.
1442
01:19:37,023 --> 01:19:39,626
[Music continues]
1443
01:19:39,626 --> 01:19:44,764
* Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh *
1444
01:19:44,764 --> 01:19:50,437
* But I can't find my way home *
1445
01:19:50,437 --> 01:19:54,140
* Can't, ooh, ooh, ooh *
1446
01:19:54,140 --> 01:19:55,442
* Ooh, ooh, ooh *
1447
01:19:55,442 --> 01:20:00,713
* But I can't find my way home *
1448
01:20:00,713 --> 01:20:06,018
* Still I can't find
my way home *
1449
01:20:06,018 --> 01:20:11,624
* And I ain't done
nothing wrong *
1450
01:20:11,624 --> 01:20:13,993
* But I can't find my way home *
1451
01:20:13,993 --> 01:20:17,296
20 years ago,
South Africa was the last place
1452
01:20:17,296 --> 01:20:19,265
I would ever have dreamt
of going,
1453
01:20:19,265 --> 01:20:21,534
Because I was so, you know,
appalled
1454
01:20:21,534 --> 01:20:24,337
At the apartheid regime.
1455
01:20:24,337 --> 01:20:26,539
Well, now it's broken up.
1456
01:20:26,539 --> 01:20:28,775
South Africa has joined
the rest of the world.
1457
01:20:28,775 --> 01:20:31,478
What are you gonna do musically
when you get there?
1458
01:20:31,478 --> 01:20:33,012
Do you have plans?
1459
01:20:33,012 --> 01:20:36,015
I have more plans
than you can dream of.
1460
01:20:36,015 --> 01:20:41,020
I mean, South Africa
is very rich musically.
1461
01:20:41,020 --> 01:20:42,555
Sweethearts
have done it all.
1462
01:20:42,555 --> 01:20:45,057
Fast broads, pretty, ambitious,
1463
01:20:45,057 --> 01:20:47,527
And after all the money
they can get out of a guy.
1464
01:20:47,527 --> 01:20:51,631
Those deadly dames leave behind
a trail of dead husbands.
1465
01:20:51,631 --> 01:20:53,766
If she has to kill somebody,
she's going to.
1466
01:20:53,766 --> 01:20:56,436
Real-life femme fatales.
1467
01:20:56,436 --> 01:21:02,842
I've got some really cool music
in my head.
1468
01:21:02,842 --> 01:21:06,979
I tried to do
the polo and jazz thing here.
1469
01:21:07,747 --> 01:21:12,785
But there's not that many
musicians over here.
1470
01:21:12,785 --> 01:21:14,854
But how much of it
is about you playing
1471
01:21:14,854 --> 01:21:17,390
Because it's
what you love doing?
1472
01:21:17,390 --> 01:21:18,925
Well, it depends.
1473
01:21:18,925 --> 01:21:23,563
To have a good time, it depends
who you're playing with.
1474
01:21:24,664 --> 01:21:26,633
I mean, five years ago,
1475
01:21:26,633 --> 01:21:30,570
The Royal Albert Hall gigs
were just fantastic.
1476
01:21:30,570 --> 01:21:32,672
[Applause]
1477
01:21:32,672 --> 01:21:36,476
[Introduction to
"We're Going Wrong" plays]
1478
01:21:47,787 --> 01:21:50,857
They were just great.
1479
01:21:50,857 --> 01:21:53,493
It was great to play with Eric,
1480
01:21:53,493 --> 01:21:55,628
And it was great to play
with Jack.
1481
01:21:55,628 --> 01:21:58,565
He did the reunion in 2005
with Cream,
1482
01:21:58,565 --> 01:21:59,932
Got a whole bunch of money,
1483
01:21:59,932 --> 01:22:05,404
And he got 24 horses
he imported from the U.K.
1484
01:22:05,404 --> 01:22:08,641
Yeah.
They cost him a fortune.
1485
01:22:08,641 --> 01:22:11,143
I've got 38 horses.
1486
01:22:12,044 --> 01:22:17,650
Horses don't let you down,
nor do dogs.
1487
01:22:17,650 --> 01:22:20,853
They all know who I am.
1488
01:22:20,853 --> 01:22:23,456
He got $5 million or so
from that reunion.
1489
01:22:23,456 --> 01:22:25,091
Now he's broke as shit.
1490
01:22:25,091 --> 01:22:27,827
He's blown all the money, and
he's got nothing to show for it.
1491
01:22:30,463 --> 01:22:35,768
He will go out of his way,
effortwise and timewise
1492
01:22:35,768 --> 01:22:39,305
And moneywise to do everything
for his animals.
1493
01:22:39,305 --> 01:22:42,609
Sometimes I get the idea
that the animals come first
1494
01:22:42,609 --> 01:22:46,145
And then the people.
1495
01:22:46,145 --> 01:22:47,614
* I *
1496
01:22:47,614 --> 01:22:53,052
* Found out today *
1497
01:22:53,486 --> 01:22:57,524
* We're going wrong *
1498
01:23:13,339 --> 01:23:15,808
[Music continues]
1499
01:23:20,046 --> 01:23:22,749
Do you think that you might
have to go back
1500
01:23:22,749 --> 01:23:24,851
To playing the drums again?
1501
01:23:24,851 --> 01:23:26,185
Why?
1502
01:23:26,185 --> 01:23:28,588
Because the bank might
foreclose on your property.
1503
01:23:28,588 --> 01:23:30,289
And besides, it's who you are.
1504
01:23:30,289 --> 01:23:35,494
Oh, for fuck's sake,
why are we talking this shit?!
1505
01:23:36,062 --> 01:23:40,867
I think he's realizing
that his time really has come
1506
01:23:40,867 --> 01:23:43,670
To finish playing the drums.
1507
01:23:46,338 --> 01:23:50,009
Dogs in general...
Maybe horses as well,
1508
01:23:50,009 --> 01:23:55,414
But dogs specifically know
when it's the end of the path.
1509
01:23:55,414 --> 01:23:56,883
They just give up.
1510
01:23:56,883 --> 01:23:59,986
You know, they know that this is
the end of the road.
1511
01:23:59,986 --> 01:24:02,354
Obviously some of them
have got fight in them.
1512
01:24:02,354 --> 01:24:03,690
Some doesn't.
1513
01:24:03,690 --> 01:24:08,494
But they realize
that they've had their life.
1514
01:24:08,494 --> 01:24:10,563
They won't die here
in front of you.
1515
01:24:10,563 --> 01:24:16,435
They will go underneath a bed,
where it's private, quiet.
1516
01:24:16,435 --> 01:24:22,108
* We're going wrong *
1517
01:24:22,108 --> 01:24:23,876
* Yeah! *
1518
01:24:23,876 --> 01:24:26,646
[Cheers and applause]
1519
01:24:26,646 --> 01:24:28,881
Thank you.
1520
01:24:35,521 --> 01:24:39,191
You think you can take
your glasses off for me, Ginger?
1521
01:24:40,059 --> 01:24:41,393
Why?
1522
01:24:41,393 --> 01:24:43,730
I'd like to see your eyes.
1523
01:24:57,744 --> 01:25:01,714
[Metal clanking]
1524
01:25:06,953 --> 01:25:11,758
I have terrible skepticism
about musicians that die young
1525
01:25:11,758 --> 01:25:14,661
And create legends
which are kind of mythical.
1526
01:25:14,661 --> 01:25:16,796
There's no myth about Ginger.
1527
01:25:16,796 --> 01:25:18,965
You know,
he is exactly what he is.
1528
01:25:18,965 --> 01:25:23,035
And that's the thing
that we value.
1529
01:25:26,839 --> 01:25:28,808
I don't know what he is.
1530
01:25:28,808 --> 01:25:31,543
He's his own person,
and he's great.
1531
01:25:31,543 --> 01:25:34,881
He's definitely the best
Ginger Baker in the world,
1532
01:25:34,881 --> 01:25:37,850
And I love him.
1533
01:25:45,692 --> 01:25:50,897
It was our last day of filming,
and here I am, saying goodbye.
1534
01:25:50,897 --> 01:25:53,332
He said,
"Where are you going now?"
1535
01:25:53,332 --> 01:25:56,803
And I said, "I'm gonna
go talk to these people"
1536
01:25:56,803 --> 01:25:59,271
Who are a part of your life."
1537
01:25:59,271 --> 01:26:01,674
And he was like, "Nah."
1538
01:26:01,674 --> 01:26:03,075
No, you're not."
1539
01:26:03,075 --> 01:26:08,180
And I don't want any of them
on my film!
1540
01:26:08,180 --> 01:26:09,916
[Rattling]
1541
01:26:09,916 --> 01:26:11,751
Are you really gonna hit me
with the...
1542
01:26:11,751 --> 01:26:13,686
I fucking well am!
1543
01:26:13,686 --> 01:26:16,889
I'm gonna fucking put you
in hospital!
1544
01:26:16,889 --> 01:26:18,490
Why?
Oh, my God!
1545
01:26:18,490 --> 01:26:20,359
Yes!
1546
01:26:21,794 --> 01:26:25,898
Ginger Baker just hit me
in the fucking nose.
1547
01:26:27,934 --> 01:26:29,769
At first I was really pissed.
1548
01:26:29,769 --> 01:26:32,839
Say you're sorry!
No!
1549
01:26:33,472 --> 01:26:39,979
But then I realized
the madman is alive and well,
1550
01:26:39,979 --> 01:26:44,450
With a precise message
to all those who dare enter...
1551
01:26:44,450 --> 01:26:47,854
Beware of Mr. Baker.
1552
01:26:48,587 --> 01:26:50,957
[Rhythmic clapping]
1553
01:26:50,957 --> 01:26:53,760
[Chanting]
Ginger Baker! Ginger Baker!
1554
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,695
Ginger Baker!
Ginger Baker!
1555
01:26:56,829 --> 01:26:59,899
Ginger Baker!
Ginger Baker!
1556
01:27:00,032 --> 01:27:01,433
Ginger Baker!
1557
01:27:01,433 --> 01:27:03,635
He seems to go through wars
and bombs
1558
01:27:03,635 --> 01:27:07,139
And comes out the other end
unscathed, amazingly.
1559
01:27:07,139 --> 01:27:08,875
And you've got to admire that.
1560
01:27:08,875 --> 01:27:10,409
You've got to admire that,
1561
01:27:10,409 --> 01:27:13,712
That he doesn't ever
kind of give in and go, "Okay."
1562
01:27:13,712 --> 01:27:15,381
[Chanting continues]
1563
01:27:15,381 --> 01:27:21,087
The indomitable Ginger Baker
always gets up off the canvas.
1564
01:27:21,087 --> 01:27:26,759
After selling his horses,
his farm, and his Range Rover,
1565
01:27:26,759 --> 01:27:28,360
He goes back on the road
1566
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:31,764
And to being the one thing
that he's always been.
1567
01:27:31,764 --> 01:27:35,001
[Cheers and applause]
1568
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:49,415
Do what you like.
1569
01:27:49,415 --> 01:27:53,152
If you enjoy doing something
and you do it very well,
1570
01:27:53,152 --> 01:27:56,388
You can be successful
and enjoy life.
1571
01:27:56,388 --> 01:27:58,524
I like playing the drums.
1572
01:27:58,524 --> 01:28:00,927
[Laughs]
1573
01:28:00,927 --> 01:28:04,263
I know what my life's
experiences are,
1574
01:28:04,263 --> 01:28:08,134
And I like to exemplify them
in music.
1575
01:28:08,134 --> 01:28:11,037
Mr. Baker does the same.
1576
01:28:11,037 --> 01:28:13,873
If that makes him
an unpleasant person socially,
1577
01:28:13,873 --> 01:28:16,508
Well, that's exactly
what is required
1578
01:28:16,508 --> 01:28:21,213
For the music from him
to be so superb.
1579
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:29,155
And I cannot question anyone
with end results that perfect.
1580
01:28:31,891 --> 01:28:34,326
[Drumming continues]
1581
01:28:41,633 --> 01:28:43,836
[Cheers and applause]
1582
01:29:03,589 --> 01:29:06,525
["Blue Condition" plays]
1583
01:29:06,525 --> 01:29:11,730
* Don't take
the wrong direction *
1584
01:29:11,730 --> 01:29:14,533
* Passing through *
1585
01:29:16,235 --> 01:29:19,271
This is a Hollywood movie
here, so...
1586
01:29:19,271 --> 01:29:20,272
Oh...
1587
01:29:20,272 --> 01:29:22,474
It's got to be
really dramatic,
1588
01:29:22,474 --> 01:29:25,211
And I need to get you to cry
at a certain point.
1589
01:29:25,211 --> 01:29:26,879
So if you could just cry
right now...
1590
01:29:26,879 --> 01:29:28,714
Oh, yeah.
1591
01:29:28,714 --> 01:29:30,582
You're dumb.
You know that?
1592
01:29:30,582 --> 01:29:32,051
You really are dumb.
1593
01:29:32,051 --> 01:29:36,355
Good God, I'm talking to
a fucking block of moronic wood.
1594
01:29:36,355 --> 01:29:39,791
Just a single tear,
like really slow-motion,
1595
01:29:39,791 --> 01:29:41,393
Down the side of your face.
1596
01:29:41,393 --> 01:29:44,897
If we could just get that shot,
it would be great.
1597
01:29:48,267 --> 01:29:52,204
Trying to explain to a dumb
American is very difficult.
1598
01:29:52,204 --> 01:29:56,142
If a stick had five right ends
and one wrong end,
1599
01:29:56,142 --> 01:29:59,345
You'd get the wrong end
every time.
1600
01:29:59,345 --> 01:30:01,247
[Sobs]
1601
01:30:01,247 --> 01:30:03,983
I'm crying for you.
1602
01:30:07,719 --> 01:30:09,521
Hello?
1603
01:30:09,521 --> 01:30:12,358
Spring will be a little late
this year.
1604
01:30:12,358 --> 01:30:15,161
Talk about three short blanks.
1605
01:30:15,161 --> 01:30:17,396
You take the biscuit, boy.
1606
01:30:18,797 --> 01:30:21,600
You drive me fucking crazy.
1607
01:30:23,669 --> 01:30:28,607
* For you will hear
no laughter *
1608
01:30:28,607 --> 01:30:31,443
* Nor see the sun *
1609
01:30:32,945 --> 01:30:37,749
* Life will be one disaster *
1610
01:30:37,749 --> 01:30:40,486
* All the way through *
1611
01:30:43,822 --> 01:30:47,593
* No relaxation *
1612
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:52,231
* No conversation *
1613
01:30:52,864 --> 01:30:56,035
* No variation *
1614
01:30:56,035 --> 01:31:00,039
* In a very dark blue *
1615
01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:05,444
* Blue condition *
1616
01:31:05,444 --> 01:31:10,116
* Don't take
the wrong direction *
1617
01:31:10,116 --> 01:31:13,385
* Passing through *
1618
01:31:14,586 --> 01:31:19,625
* Instead of deep reflection *
1619
01:31:19,625 --> 01:31:22,261
* Of what's true *
1620
01:31:23,795 --> 01:31:28,000
* For it's a combination *
1621
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:31,337
* Of judgments made by you *
1622
01:31:32,338 --> 01:31:37,009
* That cause a deep dejection *
1623
01:31:37,009 --> 01:31:39,611
* All the way through *
1624
01:31:43,215 --> 01:31:47,186
* No relaxation *
1625
01:31:47,753 --> 01:31:51,623
* No conversation *
1626
01:31:52,258 --> 01:31:55,427
* No variation *
1627
01:31:55,427 --> 01:31:59,431
* In a very dark blue *
1628
01:31:59,431 --> 01:32:07,039
* Blue condition *
1629
01:32:07,039 --> 01:32:11,310
* No relaxation *
1630
01:32:11,310 --> 01:32:15,981
* No conversation *
1631
01:32:15,981 --> 01:32:19,118
* No variation *
1632
01:32:19,118 --> 01:32:25,257
* In a very dark blue *
1633
01:32:25,257 --> 01:32:29,261
* Condition *
123337
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