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Tonight on Horizon, as part of BBC's sitcom season,
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the science of laughter. THEY LAUGH
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What is it? Why do we love it so much?
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And what has it got to do with comedy?
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But seeing as how the Horizon team aren't that funny
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in and of themselves, they've decided to hire a studio...
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..round up an audience...
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..and asked me to take charge.
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Horizon on laughter, like you've never seen it before.
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HE LAUGHS
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APPLAUSE
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Hello, everyone, I'm Jimmy Carr.
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In case you were wondering, this is still Horizon,
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the proper grown-up BBC science documentary series.
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Don't worry, I'll be on my best behaviour.
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There'll be none of my usual innuendo, because if this works out,
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I might get to meet Professor Brian Cox,
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and I can't tell you how much I love Cox.
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LAUGHTER
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Come on!
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So, I've got some great news -
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science has taken time out from giving your job to a robot,
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designing GM crops and cloning designer babies
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to investigate laughter.
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Rest assured, I'm not in charge.
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When it comes to the science stuff, we've called in the experts.
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We've got a group of eminent laughter scientists -
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yes, that is a real thing -
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and they're here, poised to enlighten.
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It's like Laboratoires Garnier back there.
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- Hello, the scientists. ALL:
- Hi.
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We've also visited scientists who make people laugh
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and others who make animals laugh.
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We've caused pain, scanned brains
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and visited some of the least funny places on the planet,
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all in a bid to get to the bottom of laughter.
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And we've got a room full of unsuspecting volunteers,
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who think they're just an audience.
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AUDIENCE LAUGHS
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And that was nervous laughter.
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AUDIENCE LAUGHS LOUDLY
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EB White once said analysing comedy is like dissecting a frog -
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few people are interested and the frog dies.
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But what did he know?
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This is going to be the most fun science show
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since the one where they let Stephen Hawking use
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the Large Hadron Collider as a water slide.
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LAUGHTER Right, let's crack on.
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Probably a good idea to start with some classic jokes.
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Two monkeys in a bath.
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One says to the other, "Ooh-ooh-ooh, ah-ah-ah."
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The other says, "Well, put the cold tap on, then."
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How do you make a cat go woof?
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Pour petrol on it and light it.
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These are the clean ones.
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I was walking with my wife when I saw six men kicking and punching
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my mother-in-law. My wife said, "Aren't you going to help?"
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I said, "No, six should be enough."
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A policeman came to my front door and said,
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"I'm sorry, sir, but it looks like your wife's been in an accident."
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I said, "I know, but she's got a cracking personality."
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Now, here's a question you never hear a stand-up comedian ask.
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Why did you laugh at those jokes?
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Does anyone have any ideas on why they laughed?
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I hate cats.
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"I hate cats" is a very good answer.
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I'm sure that's not the case, though,
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that's just another joke on top of that one, so...
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- Any ideas on why you laughed?
- Nostalgia.
- Because it's funny.
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Nostalgia is a very good one, yeah,
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cos they're old classic school jokes,
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and the familiarity of that.
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That is kind of a...that's a reason sometimes. Any other...
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- thoughts?
- Breaking the ice?
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Well, I suppose it is, yeah, that social activity.
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I think we're going to talk about that later on - that idea that
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laughter as a kind of group activity.
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Don't panic, we're going to explain all this.
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This is Horizon, so let's throw some science at the problem.
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University College London...
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..boasting impressive neoclassical architecture
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and a solid academic heritage.
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And, more recently, it's gained a reputation as somewhere
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where laughter is taken very seriously indeed.
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THEY LAUGH
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Today, Professor Sophie Scott...
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..is gathering raw material for her research.
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What we're just going to do is go through some videos
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- and just really find some stuff that makes you laugh, OK?
- OK.
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Cos the point of this is, I don't really care what it is,
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I'd just like to collect some really nice laughter from you.
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And to ensure a perfect recording...
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..she's using UCL's anechoic chamber.
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It just means no echo.
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What we're doing here is we're recording somebody
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laughing spontaneously.
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Get nice and comfortable.
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So, I'm playing her something, which we're both fairly confident
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is going to make her laugh.
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VOLUNTEER LAUGHS
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I just got really interested that everything done on emotions
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is negative, and it turned out that the psychologist Paul Ekman
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had suggested that there might well be positive emotions,
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which might actually be basic emotions.
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And in fact he'd said they may well be primarily conveyed
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with the voice, so I thought, "Brilliant, that's what I do".
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Sophie discovered that laughter is something all humans understand,
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regardless of location, culture or language.
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VOLUNTEER LAUGHS
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I think it's really important to study laughter because first of all,
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it's a basic expression of emotion.
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It's a non-verbal expression of emotion,
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but it's one we drop into all the time.
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VOLUNTEER LAUGHS LOUDLY
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We drop into this old mammal vocal behaviour,
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to do a lot of the emotional work of an interaction.
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VOLUNTEER LAUGHS
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Right, I found a really nice bit of laughter and then I lost it again,
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so that's what I'm trying to do.
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VOLUNTEER LAUGHTER CONTINUES
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There we go. Wasn't that lovely?
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I realise that being delighted by a spectrogram
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is sort of niche interest.
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Well, fascinating stuff. And she's here to talk about her research.
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Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the studio
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Professor Sophie Scott.
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- Hello. Proper science.
- Proper science.
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- Hello, Professor Sophie Scott, how are you?
- I'm fine, thank you.
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OK, so, you're saying everyone laughs?
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As far as we can tell,
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when we have done some cross-cultural work on this,
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wherever you go in the world, people recognise laughter.
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Even if you go to a culture where people might not laugh in public,
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cos maybe it's rude, they still recognise laughter,
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and they will still do it in some places.
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- Even like Inverness on a bank holiday Monday?
- Potentially!
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Technically, I should be able to get laughs out of those people,
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even if, in reality, not the case.
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They might know it when they saw it happening,
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if you made someone else laugh, they might know what's going on.
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You're saying it's a universal across humanity?
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We don't have the same sense of humour,
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- but we all recognise laughter?
- Exactly.
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Humour can be very, very widely varying
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across different times and places.
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Laughter, as a behaviour, stayed pretty constant.
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- OK, can we demonstrate this?
- Yes. We've got an example of somebody
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producing some positive expressions of emotion from...
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He's from the Himba tribe in Namibia.
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Hi, hi-hi!
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Hi-hi!
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Hi, hi, hi...
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Any guesses?
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Obviously, if you're watching in Namibia... I mean...
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Couldn't be more bloody obvious, could it?
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Any idea what emotion that was?
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It looked to me like he was clapping backwards.
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Cos it was kind of... It was a weird kind of...
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So, what he was doing is expressing triumph.
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So, the sort of... Imagine that you all really like football
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and the football team that you like has just scored a goal.
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- Make the sound.
- AUDIENCE CHEER
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So, that's what you tend to find in the UK,
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people making a triumphant noise sensibly, so like a whoo sound.
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And that's not the noise the Himba make,
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and it's not cross-culturally recognised.
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Let's have another look at this guy.
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- Hi, hi-hi!
- HE LAUGHS
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AUDIENCE LAUGHS
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OK, so at the end there, did we all get what was he doing?
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Yeah.
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So, that's uni...
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That's in every culture around the world, the laugh is...
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You'd be able to tell someone was laughing?
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Yes, you would know what was happening.
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The idea with basic expressions of emotion is that they reflect
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something about our evolutionary history, we share them
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with other mammals. Things like fear, anger, disgust, sadness.
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You find those in other mammals.
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So, anger in a dog's face isn't that different from anger
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in a human face.
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It's possible that we need to add laughter
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to this set of basic emotions.
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Right. So, not everyone laughs at the same things, obviously,
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we all have a different sense of humour. Take a look.
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Americans don't tend to really know that much about the world,
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so they don't get other people so much.
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At the moment, the in-thing is about quail birds.
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Just someone that's a grown man, maybe acting like a child.
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Excuse me. Too much gas.
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Armenians are famous for having a good sense of humour, and...
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Yeah.
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Got a new car. They say she's probably got a quail farm.
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What makes me laugh is cheeky banter.
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Squirrels, cats, ravens eating chips.
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I think the British humour is so sharp and so cutting.
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Do you want to hear a joke about helium? Hee-hee-hee.
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Our satire is more like a gentle satire.
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In the Philippines, we make fun of dumb people.
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It's like trying to explain what makes a man's heart beat
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when he sees a blue-eyed blonde with amazing jugs.
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If you're looking good, you've probably...
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Got a few quail birds...in your purse!
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British people are famous for self-laughing.
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Jimmy Carr's one-liners.
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He's my favourite comedian I know of.
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"We in America, we wash hands."
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And the attendant guy turns to him and says,
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"You know we in Lithuania, we don't pee on our hands."
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What do you do with a dead chemist?
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You barium.
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And you end up wanting to look like a quail
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because you're worth a lot of money.
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So, it's a pain au chocolat meeting a croissant and he's asking,
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"Why are you so weird? Why do you have a moon shape?"
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And the other one says, "What are you talking about?
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"Because you have, like, shit all over your ass."
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SHE SPEAKS FRENCH
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So, laughter is universal but what we laugh at
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is cultural and personal.
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Sophie, everyone does it, everyone understands what it means,
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but what actually is laughter?
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Laughter's more like a different way of breathing
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than it as anything else. So, what we are all doing right now,
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hopefully, is using the intercostal muscles,
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the muscles between our ribs, to get air in and out of our bodies.
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It's called metabolic breathing. Exactly.
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You breathe in, you breathe out.
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Air's being drawn in and then squeezed back out again.
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- I'm good at this.
- So, were I to look at your chest wall moving...
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Well, that feels weird.
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I've over-thought it.
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- Go on. My chest wall is moving in and out...
- You keep going with that.
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You'd see this almost sinusoidal movement, this very smooth movement.
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You start doing it the minute you're born,
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that's it the whole rest of your life.
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When we start laughing, those same muscles start to contract.
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They're really large deflections, just squeezing air out of you,
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and that's basically all laughter is.
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It's an extremely primitive way of making a sound.
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Ultimately, if you couldn't stop laughing, it'd kill you.
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- Yeah.
- Basically, I'm a deadly weapon, is what you're saying.
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You definitely are. It's just squeezing air out of you,
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it stops you breathing, it stops you talking, it's trying to kill you.
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- And we've rigged some people up, so we can show this.
- Exactly.
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And what we'll notice is, hopefully, if you can make them laugh,
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that both the very fine movement you get during talking
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and the smooth movement that you get during breathing, should go away.
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00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,320
And instead, what we get is just these big zigzags
250
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,320
as air's just being squeezed out of you.
251
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520
OK, so, are we looking at them breathing first?
252
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,480
Well, hopefully they're already breathing.
253
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,440
- OK, so are they breathing?
- Hopefully!
254
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,320
- I can see them breathing.
- They're breathing now and you're happy?
255
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,400
Sinead, your PhD assistant... Hi, Sinead. How are you?
256
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,000
So, you're saying those two ladies are alive?
257
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,320
- Fantastic.
- This is incredible science.
258
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,960
- So, I've got to try and make them laugh now?
- Please.
259
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,720
Right, I'll do some jokes from over here.
260
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,000
We've got a performance area with... Yay, everyone.
261
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000
- AUDIENCE:
- Yay!
- OK.
262
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,880
I look like this, obviously, because my dad is Irish and my mum is...
263
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,360
Roger Federer.
264
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,520
LAUGHTER
265
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,240
I feel like you're laughing at me, not with me, there.
266
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,200
A nurse finds a rectal thermometer in her pocket and thinks,
267
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,920
"Some arsehole's got my pen."
268
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,840
I got talking to a North African girl recently
269
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,400
in her native language, for hours.
270
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,440
We just...clicked.
271
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,560
That's enough of that.
272
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,080
We should be able to see some sort of difference then, so...
273
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,160
- Did you see anything there? Oh.
- Oh, look at that.
274
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,280
Can you see at the bottom there, she's breathing,
275
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,200
and then you're really making her laugh. Can you see the big zigzags?
276
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,840
- Then breath, breath, breath and then zigzags again.
- Hang on,
277
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,760
I'm going over to have a look. I'm going to use
278
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,120
one of these technical fingers. So, that was the laugh?
279
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,480
- Yes, that's the laugh there.
- That's a pretty big laugh.
280
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,200
That's pretty big, and there's a big...
281
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,040
If you look at the top as well, the person at the top is also laughing.
282
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,440
Yeah, but she wasn't really into it. LAUGHTER
283
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,640
- You were funny earlier.
- It feels like, if I was...
284
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,320
If I'm going to work as an assassin,
285
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,360
and that is ultimately the goal of this show,
286
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,400
I would not be able to kill the lady in the yellow,
287
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,120
but the lady in the orange, I think...
288
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,560
- Yeah.
- You better watch yourself, love.
289
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,280
OK, so, supplemental to that,
290
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,400
if you were to make someone laugh uncontrollably,
291
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,520
- could it be a dangerous thing?
- Well, it can be.
292
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,240
I mean, it literally is stopping you from breathing.
293
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,680
It's just squeezing air out of you
294
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,600
and it's stopping you doing anything else.
295
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,200
And there's even a postural reflex
296
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,280
that means that we're all sitting in our chairs,
297
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,720
we don't just slump to the ground.
298
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,520
So even when your muscles aren't working,
299
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,840
they're holding you in place, and that is suppressed
300
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,480
when you start laughing. That's why you become weak and floppy
301
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,000
when you're laughing, and that, inevitably, at some point
302
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,360
you can become helpless with laughter, at which point,
303
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,920
if a tiger came in or something, there would be a brief window
304
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,840
when you wouldn't be able to do much about it.
305
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,840
Well, my mother, weirdly, had a very odd laugh.
306
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,120
She had a laugh where she made no noise at all
307
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,640
- and lost muscular control.
- Right.
308
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,640
So she would just literally, kind of...
309
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,440
And then, with her last bit of energy she would go,
310
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,280
"Stop, just stop," and obviously you would never stop.
311
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,000
I think it's part of the reason I got into doing this for a living,
312
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,200
because it was the most fun thing in the world to...
313
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,000
Oh, my mum has melted. Genius.
314
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,160
So, laughter's different, physiologically, to normal speech.
315
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,600
If you couldn't stop laughing, it could genuinely harm you.
316
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,280
I believe we have some MRI scans.
317
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,560
- We do. We're going to start...
- Excellent.
318
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,600
- Science in...
- I'm sorry, I didn't have time to get to the doctor's,
319
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,600
so we're going to quickly go through these now,
320
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,880
see if I'm going to make it. So, what are we looking at?
321
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,720
What we're looking at first is...
322
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,200
We're running the MRI machine like a video camera,
323
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,400
so you're literally taking a movie of somebody speaking here.
324
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,840
What she's doing is she is talking her way through some nursery rhymes
325
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,400
and you can see everything that's happening during speech -
326
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,120
very complex movements of the tongue,
327
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,880
you've got the jaw moving up and down, the lips, the soft palate,
328
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,000
the bit at the back of your nose, the larynx,
329
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,520
the voice box is moving up and down.
330
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,680
So, that's speech -
331
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,480
very complex, nothing like that out there in nature.
332
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,400
And then if we move on to the next one,
333
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,240
which should be somebody laughing. It's the same person laughing.
334
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,920
We made her laugh in the scanner,
335
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,320
and if you look, none of that is happening, basically.
336
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,080
She's moving up and down a lot cos her ribcage is moving.
337
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,760
The tongue is staying in the bottom of the mouth,
338
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,440
and if you've ever laughed until the back of your throat hurts,
339
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,680
you can see why that's happening there, cos actually
340
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,960
you can see she's squeezing the tongue right back up
341
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,080
against the pharynx,
342
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,200
so you're squeezing all that air out through an even narrower pipe.
343
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,880
I'm sorry, what did you nail her to, to get this to happen?
344
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,440
Who doesn't move their head even slightly when they laugh?
345
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,120
She's in something that looks disturbingly like
346
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,840
a kind of sarcophagus.
347
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,320
She's in something that's holding her head and shoulders in position
348
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,600
- so we can image all this bit here.
- Where is she now?
349
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,960
She's alive, she's well, she escaped, she made it through.
350
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,080
She escaped? LAUGHTER
351
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,840
OK, so laughter is more like an animal call than speaking -
352
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,880
primal and contagious. OK, I get that.
353
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,040
So, that's what laughter is, but what exactly is it for?
354
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,280
Well, thankfully, one scientist has taken time off
355
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,480
from developing jet boots, to find out.
356
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,960
Oxford University boasts some of the prettiest academic buildings
357
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,000
in the world.
358
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,880
These grand palaces of learning are largely the preserve
359
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,600
of the humanities.
360
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,000
But because Professor Robin Dunbar is a scientist,
361
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,360
he's forced to work here...
362
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,320
..in this architectural abomination.
363
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,000
Out of the sight of tourists and university website photographers.
364
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,720
Here, geographically and aesthetically isolated,
365
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,960
Dunbar causes people pain.
366
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,480
Because he claims it throws light on why we laugh.
367
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,920
So, what we're doing here is we're looking to see whether
368
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,480
pain threshold increases after you've laughed.
369
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,640
First, the baseline measurement.
370
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,960
OK. Now!
371
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,520
Stop.
372
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:46,800
Stop.
373
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,440
We have a winner.
374
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:56,480
Stop.
375
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,520
Good work.
376
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,320
And now the fun part.
377
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,960
Professor Dunbar is an experimental psychologist
378
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,440
and an evolutionary biologist...
379
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,120
..which is quite a mouthful.
380
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,000
But what it means is he's able to both formulate ideas
381
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,680
about our species development and also test them in a lab.
382
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,600
And one of his main ideas is about grooming.
383
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,040
Monkeys and apes create their friendships,
384
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,920
their relationships with each other and thereby bond their social groups
385
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,240
by grooming, social grooming - grooming each other.
386
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,600
It turns out that that light stroking
387
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,280
triggers an endorphin response in the brain.
388
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,960
The problem with grooming is it's a one-on-one activity -
389
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,440
you can only groom one individual at a time.
390
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,480
So, the problem is how to sort of groom
391
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,160
with several people simultaneously.
392
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,680
Robin's theory holds that laughter is effectively remote tickling,
393
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,520
producing the same chemical high.
394
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,800
And if he's right, the laughing volunteers in the lab
395
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,760
will now be flushed with pain-beating endorphins...
396
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,040
..and they'll beat their previous times
397
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,600
in the wall-sit test.
398
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,960
OK?
399
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,040
Go.
400
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:00,560
Stop.
401
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,280
Stop.
402
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,600
Stop.
403
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,240
Stop.
404
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,400
It's direct evidence that laughter does produce endorphins.
405
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,240
Yes, you'd normally expect something between, on average, I don't know,
406
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:39,600
about five seconds and anything up to 20 seconds increase in time,
407
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,840
and that's pretty much what we have here.
408
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,600
All statistically significant.
409
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,560
So, laughter can help you get through a painful experience,
410
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,400
which is why you hear so much of it at my shows.
411
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,720
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest,
412
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,640
evil genius, Professor Robin Dunbar.
413
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,120
Thanks so much for coming. Take a seat.
414
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,240
- Hi.
- Now, you know Sophie, right?
- Yep.
415
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,280
Of course, all scientists know each other.
416
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,920
We do, it's a small community.
417
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,080
So, how did grooming begat laughter?
418
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:20,920
Well, essentially, the real problem is that we needed to
419
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,440
be able to groom, if you like, with more individuals simultaneously
420
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,360
in order to be able to have much bigger groups
421
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,000
than is typical of monkeys and apes.
422
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,160
So, how many in a typical group of monkeys and apes?
423
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,520
The most social species, baboons, chimpanzees, something like that,
424
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,640
about 50 is the typical group size.
425
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,880
And what do they call that, Professor Dunbar?
426
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,520
- Is it called the Dunbar Number?
- Ah.
427
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:43,800
What's the Dunbar Number?
428
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,640
Cos you went ahead and named something after yourself...
429
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,080
LAUGHTER
430
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,640
..which is, I mean, ego-wise, pretty terrific.
431
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,000
- Do they pay you money to say these things?
- They do, yeah.
432
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,880
No, Dunbar's Number is technically
433
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,320
the number of the size of human groups,
434
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,120
or the number of friends and family that you have, and that's 150,
435
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:08,760
that's three times bigger than the kind of typical biggest groups
436
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,800
you get in monkeys and apes.
437
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,560
So, that's because they can individually groom
438
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,160
other monkeys and apes up to about 50,
439
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,400
and then they break off and start another group.
440
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Essentially, that's what ends up happening,
441
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,720
because if you don't bond with the individuals
442
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:29,280
you are part of the group with, the group will gradually split up and...
443
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,200
..into two separate groups, and that happens with us.
444
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,760
I mean, if we don't engage constantly with our friends
445
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,720
and relations and so on,
446
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,200
gradually those relationships just die quietly away.
447
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,880
So we have to keep this, kind of what's effectively
448
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,280
a form of grooming, going.
449
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,440
And we do it by grooming in the way that monkeys and apes do -
450
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,840
with the patting and the touch on the shoulder and the cuddling
451
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,120
and all that kind of stuff.
452
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,840
We do all that but it's a one-on-one thing
453
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,080
and you can't do it with more than one person at once.
454
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,640
Oh, you can. HE LAUGHS
455
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,160
Welcome to showbusiness, Professor Dunbar.
456
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,720
But no, I take your point there.
457
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,160
So the idea of remote tickling, I find very pleasing. The idea that...
458
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,200
I've kind of, I like to think of myself as a drug dealer,
459
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,160
but the drug that I'm dealing is endorphins,
460
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,960
and you've already got the drugs on you
461
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,800
and I'm just bringing the kind of release mechanism
462
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800
- that saves on the transport costs.
- It does.
463
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,800
But, I mean, remember endorphins are related to morphine
464
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,840
and the opiates in general,
465
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,760
and that's why you get this kind of light-headed kind of relaxed feeling
466
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,480
from them, they give you an opiate high.
467
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,680
- So, you're saying we should try drugs?
- Yeah, um...
468
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,840
You spend all day...
469
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,080
But the difference with endorphins is you don't get addicted to them
470
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,600
in the way that you do the normal kind of morphine opiate-type drugs.
471
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,640
Chemically, they're just slightly different,
472
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,640
so you don't suffer that kind of physiological addiction.
473
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,520
But the point is that laughter triggers that system,
474
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,720
and then allows you in effect to groom with several other people
475
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,240
at the same time,
476
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,480
so it then becomes a much more efficient use of time.
477
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,720
So, we can use the same amount of social time during the day,
478
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,880
but groom with many more people.
479
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,920
- Fantastic, so that allows us to have bigger groups...
- Yeah.
480
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,440
- ..and therefore to specialise...
- Well, then you can have
481
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,280
all the things that emerged out of our history, as it were,
482
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,840
you know, sort of...
483
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,480
You can have culture because you've got many more minds
484
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,280
to create novel ideas - write books, tell jokes...
485
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,400
Excellent. So, laughter is remote grooming, it's a social activity,
486
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,520
and you're actually 30 times more likely to laugh
487
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,480
when you're with other people.
488
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,960
It's an intensely social activity, yes.
489
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,040
I mean, it's this extraordinary contagion effect of it.
490
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,400
So you could tell a joke in some language that I don't understand
491
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,560
and everybody else laughs, I cannot help but laugh with you.
492
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,440
I simply don't know why I'm laughing, but I have to do it.
493
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,960
I weirdly have a thing in my relationship where we watch
494
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,760
certain shows together that I'd never dream of watching
495
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,000
without the other half.
496
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,960
And there's a thing about if I do watch something on my own
497
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,040
on the iPlayer on the computer, you find yourself going,
498
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,720
- "Oh, that was really funny," but I don't laugh.
- Yeah.
- Mmm-hmm.
499
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,480
But if I'm with the other half at home,
500
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,360
we just really fall about laughing, and it's a lovely...
501
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,480
I don't know, it's a very comforting sound, hearing your partner laugh.
502
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,400
OK, so we've put the theory to the test.
503
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,880
We've isolated one of our audience members.
504
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,720
Hello, Sherry.
505
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,320
- Hi, Jimmy.
- Hello.
506
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,720
So, we've stuck you in isolation to watch the programme.
507
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,160
- Are you enjoying it?
- Yes.
508
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,280
Good. LAUGHTER
509
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,800
Well, it's been lovely chatting.
510
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,640
So, you're on your own, watching the show.
511
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,560
So we're going to have a look at your reaction
512
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,400
to me telling jokes earlier, to see whether you laughed on your own.
513
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,120
Let's have a look.
514
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:50,920
..designing GM crops and cloning designer babies
515
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,400
to investigate laughter.
516
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,880
AUDIENCE LAUGHS
517
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,320
..thermometer in her pocket and thinks...
518
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,080
"some arsehole's got my pen."
519
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,200
AUDIENCE LAUGHS
520
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,360
So, Sherry, my question to you, why are you being a dick about it?
521
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,280
I mean, it's a really good example, though,
522
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,000
of you're watching the show and you seem pretty engaged, but...
523
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,920
- You're not laughing.
- I am laughing...inside.
524
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:20,880
You're laughing on the inside?
525
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,120
No, I mean that's... That's fair enough.
526
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,600
And then we locked you in a room so you're...
527
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,760
- You're not well pre-disposed to...
- I just feel very much at home now,
528
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,480
cos this is something that I do just at home by myself,
529
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,080
watching you.
530
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,440
LAUGHTER
531
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,640
Well, you made this weird, Sherry.
532
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,160
What I do on Snapchat is very much my own business.
533
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,080
That's a... We'll get you to come into the studio
534
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,320
for the rest of the show, because we've done this bit.
535
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,320
But I think that really demonstrates that idea of the social activity,
536
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,720
and I feel like, as my job being a stand-up,
537
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,000
people come out to shows partly because they think the person
538
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,360
onstage is funny, but partly because they want to laugh
539
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,120
with their partner, with their friends.
540
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,320
They sort of organically know that they enjoy that experience
541
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,880
of being together with a room full of people
542
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,840
that all have the same sense of humour as well.
543
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,720
But what's kind of interesting, actually,
544
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,720
if you looked round the room when you could hear laughter,
545
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,280
it's not everybody that's laughing here.
546
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,320
And in fact one of the weird things is,
547
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,040
if you look at people in pubs laughing,
548
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,080
you almost never get more than three people laughing together.
549
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,160
But actually, if you think about it, that already makes laughter
550
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,040
three times more efficient than grooming,
551
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,560
for triggering the endorphin system,
552
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,240
because when you groom, it's only the other person that gets the hit.
553
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,240
When you laugh, you as the joke-teller, laugh as well.
554
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,640
What you're saying there is when you tell a joke in a pub,
555
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,160
- three people laugh.
- No, two.
556
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,120
- And you laugh, yeah.
- I'm a pro, my friend.
557
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,360
I can get the whole room.
558
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,040
But most of the time, if you look,
559
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,360
you've got...it's like a kind of Mexican wave effect.
560
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,040
You've got little pockets laughing.
561
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,800
It sounds like a lot of people laughing, but if you actually look,
562
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,560
it's sort of going round in little waves.
563
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,800
I often find that with certain types of jokes as well,
564
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,800
- you sort of have a ripple effect of...
- Yeah.
565
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,920
..people are laughing and then they're laughing
566
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,720
- at someone else laughing...
- And also a good laugher to trigger it.
567
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,080
If you've got a good laugher, who laughs at everything,
568
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,640
it will trigger the waves of laughter round the room.
569
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,760
Oh, I work with several professionals.
570
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,760
So, laughter is a group activity but it's also linked to grooming
571
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,480
in that it strengthens relationships.
572
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,440
Couples that laugh together, stay together - certainly makes sense.
573
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,080
There must be something that's stopping the Chuckle Brothers
574
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,200
from killing each other. Take a look.
575
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,400
At the University of North Carolina, it's graduation time.
576
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,280
Students may be leaving, but for staff like Sara Algoe,
577
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,520
the work goes on.
578
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,440
I was really interested in laughter
579
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,120
because it seems like the kind of behaviour that happens
580
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,640
really frequently and is so relevant to the way
581
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,080
that people think about
582
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,480
their best relationships, and yet there is very little research on it.
583
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,120
In another disproportionately ugly psychology department...
584
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,160
..on an otherwise very pretty campus...
585
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,200
..Sarah's PhD student Laura Kurtz is running an experiment
586
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,440
to try to put some numbers on the idea that people who laugh together
587
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,920
stay together.
588
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,040
For this first interaction,
589
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,000
we're interested in hearing about the first time you met.
590
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
What was the first thing you said to me?
591
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,280
"I'm going to marry you one day," and you said, "No".
592
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,600
What I really love about this research is that it's so intuitive,
593
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,360
so everyone can think of a time when they laughed with somebody.
594
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,080
So you can think of probably a time in the past day or two,
595
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,320
when you laughed with your friend or your romantic partner,
596
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,760
but we can also think of a time when we laughed at something
597
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,200
but the person next to us did not laugh,
598
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,080
and suddenly in that moment...
599
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,720
..what could have potentially been a really powerful thing,
600
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,080
a powerful behaviour, all of a sudden takes a nosedive.
601
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,800
After filling out a questionnaire that will tell the researchers
602
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,000
how happy each of them is in their relationship,
603
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,160
couples are recorded talking about the first time they met.
604
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,040
- Yeah.
- I thought that was really cute.
605
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,840
It was cute. I was most probably lying about it, but...
606
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,040
After the couples left the lab,
607
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,000
we had a coder go back through all of those
608
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,800
video-recorded interactions,
609
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,800
coding for every start and stop time stamp of a laugh.
610
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,440
- You were expecting me to be boring?
- Well, you were a librarian.
611
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,240
- You read my e-mails.
- Yeah, but...
612
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,760
Yeah, but it was still a librarian. I'm sorry!
613
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,520
HE LAUGHS
614
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,200
This is the way that we're able to quantify how much time
615
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,120
they're spending actually laughing at exactly the same time,
616
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,560
versus each person laughing separately.
617
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,880
Oh, my gosh.
618
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,880
So, what we found was that moments of shared laughter
619
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,680
actually are predictive of greater closeness
620
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,400
and feeling more supported by one's partner.
621
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,360
So, those couples who laughed more tended to report more support
622
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,320
and also generally feeling closer to their partner.
623
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,400
- I had my eye on somebody else at that time.
- Oh, really?
- Yes, I did.
624
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,840
Oh, I didn't know that.
625
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,240
HE LAUGHS
626
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,280
So, the message is pretty clear.
627
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,200
Folklore has it that laughter may well ignite romantic attachment...
628
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,360
..but science says, if you want to make it past infatuation...
629
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,560
SHE GIGGLES ..and enjoy a long and happy
630
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,720
relationship, you better carry on laughing.
631
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,080
That was an interesting film.
632
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,680
Finally, what every couple watching at home wants to see -
633
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,760
a scientific way of determining exactly how doomed
634
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,480
their relationship is.
635
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,280
Well done, science.
636
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,720
So, do couples that laugh together really stay together?
637
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,800
One of the important things that kind of comes out of that, actually,
638
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,360
I think, is that laughing together actually ramps up
639
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,000
the endorphin production in the brain,
640
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,600
it actually doubles it, in effect.
641
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,960
We don't understand why, we have no idea why,
642
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,240
but it's almost as though the system is designed to give you this
643
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,360
- sort of real boost.
- To encourage you to laugh with other people?
644
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,080
- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, buy two tickets.
645
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,840
So, its sort of functionality is it releases endorphins
646
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,280
and that feels good, but also it's a form of communication
647
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,400
- in and of itself?
- Yeah, and it lets you, together,
648
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,040
regulate your emotions, cos it only works if both of you do it.
649
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,000
If one person's going, "Ha-ha, it was funny,"
650
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840
and the other person's going, "No, it was quite a serious problem,"
651
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040
they're not... It's not going to work.
652
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,000
So, there's two different types of laughter -
653
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,880
there's laughter you do when you hear a joke
654
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,200
and there's social laughter,
655
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,160
laughter that peppers our communications.
656
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,240
There's real laughter, at stuff we find funny,
657
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,360
and there's posed laughter, which serves a vital social function.
658
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,120
Sophie, you've done work on this, right?
659
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,360
Yes, we've been looking at it in quite a lot of detail,
660
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,800
because it does seem to be, essentially,
661
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,840
two entirely different kinds of laughter that we use.
662
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,040
Posed laughter - that sounds like... Is that someone going, "Ha-ha...ha"?
663
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,800
- Well, it could be. It's...
- LAUGHTER
664
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,960
It sounds really bad, sort of...
665
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,280
It was like you bounced it straight back.
666
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,640
- SHE LAUGHS That was real.
- Yeah.
667
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440
It sounds awful to say, "Who would want fake laughter?
668
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,360
"I don't want you putting that on," but actually most of the laughter
669
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,960
you encounter in conversations is so well-coordinated
670
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,000
with the conversation that you're having,
671
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,360
that it has to be part of your voluntary communication system.
672
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,440
If you look at people laughing when they're having conversational...
673
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,080
and they're talking to each other, they don't laugh randomly,
674
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,640
they laugh at the ends of sentences, and then you start again
675
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,720
and maybe somebody else picks up or you carry on.
676
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,000
OK, well, shall we play in some real and some posed laughter
677
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,200
and see if people can differentiate?
678
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,720
OK, so... Well, take it away, Sophie.
679
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,400
OK, we've got somebody laughing here. They may look familiar.
680
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,520
OK, what do you think, audience?
681
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,400
- AUDIENCE:
- Real.
- Real.
682
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,000
Does everyone think it's real? Does anyone think it's posed?
683
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,960
Posed.
684
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,960
Who thinks it's posed?
685
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,640
And you're saying that only a psychopath would do that, yeah?
686
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,520
And they need to be institutionalised now.
687
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,680
We'd need more than N=1 for data, but it's a worrying start.
688
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,480
I'm fairly certain that one's real cos I start crying when I laugh.
689
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,400
TYPEWRITER PINGS
690
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,040
OK, let's have an old-style typewriter write it in green.
691
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,680
If that doesn't say Horizon, I don't know what...
692
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:25,920
That's science, my friend.
693
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,360
That's a real laugh. See if we can try another one.
694
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,280
OK, so real or posed?
695
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,440
- AUDIENCE:
- Posed.
- Posed.
- And does anyone think it's real?
696
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,440
Genuinely, if anyone thought... It's fine.
697
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,560
I can see maybe someone does and then they're going,
698
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,080
"I'd better not say."
699
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,440
Posed laughs, they've got their own thing going on.
700
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,440
They're not just weak versions of real laughs.
701
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,200
So, you quite often get nasality, a kind of heh-heh-heh quality
702
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,040
to posed laughter that you never, ever find in spontaneous laughter,
703
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,800
in fact, you couldn't do that when you were laughing helplessly.
704
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,320
It's like we're marking it, we're showing it for what it is.
705
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,720
I'm giving you my laughter. I'm voluntarily giving you
706
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:13,800
this laughter.
707
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,520
So we're going out of our way, possibly,
708
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,600
to actually show people that this is a voluntary behaviour.
709
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,280
OK, so we humans are not the only mammals that laugh.
710
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,480
Now, can any other animal fake laugh?
711
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,080
In chimpanzees, you do seem to find something that looks like
712
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,680
a difference between a spontaneous laugh and a posed laugh.
713
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,120
So, chimps laugh differently if they are being tickled
714
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,080
than if they're trying to make play last longer, so that's...
715
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,040
What if they're filming something for PG Tips?
716
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,520
Cos often they've heard those jokes before.
717
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:43,600
They're being polite.
718
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Yeah, so can we demonstrate that humans are the only ones
719
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,160
that really know how to pose laughter?
720
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,840
We're going to try this.
721
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,720
I think we have a volunteer over there.
722
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,280
Yes, you're our volunteer, come up.
723
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,640
- What's your name, sir?
- Phil.
724
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,600
- Hello, Phil, how are you?
- I'm good, thank you.
725
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,560
I believe we need you to regress maybe ten million years, is it?
726
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,720
How far are we going back?
727
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,160
We're sending him back to walk on all fours.
728
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,080
I'll cede knowledge here to Robin, but we need a quadruped.
729
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,800
Just here is fine. I don't know if you...
730
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,200
Yeah, go ahead, dude.
731
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,480
- There we go.
- Ah, you left your dignity at the table.
732
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,680
LAUGHTER
733
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,480
"Yeah, Mum, it's great news, I'm going to be on Horizon, but..."
734
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,000
As soon as you start having to do this,
735
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,680
you're having to use your four limbs, like all other mammals,
736
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,080
to support your weight, and that means you can't use them
737
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,280
for all that fine stuff we're doing when we're using our voice
738
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,120
voluntarily - we're talking, we're doing social laughter.
739
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,320
So, this is a slightly strange way of demonstrating
740
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,360
how weirdly dependent we are on actually the fact that we're walking
741
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,760
upright for a lot of the stuff we can do with our voices.
742
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,280
So, could you fake a laugh now in that position, is that...?
743
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,080
HE LAUGHS AND SPLUTTERS
744
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,880
AUDIENCE LAUGH
745
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,680
No, not really.
746
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,960
I mean, definitively not.
747
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,640
And we need him there for the rest of the show.
748
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,240
It's a shame, really. He was probably quite enjoying it.
749
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,240
See, now... So you're saying the reason we can fake laughter
750
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,880
- is cos we're bipeds...
- Bipeds, yeah.
- ..and if we had to walk on
751
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880
all fours, as this man has to... LAUGHTER
752
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,440
Contractually obliged to walk like this for the rest of the show.
753
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:15,880
I mean...
754
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Probably a kinder sort of host would've got you to stand up
755
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,440
by now, but...
756
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,800
Go on, you'd better stand up. Our volunteer, everyone.
757
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,760
Thank you very much. Great demonstration. It worked.
758
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,480
So that kind of tightness in speech
759
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,360
and the idea that you couldn't really sort of relax and pose
760
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,200
and enjoy it as much if you're kind of, yeah.
761
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,960
Absolutely. I mean, if you stress it even more, if you've got...
762
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,360
you know, you try and take all your weight onto your arms,
763
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,480
like doing pull-ups, then you just can't talk, you can't laugh,
764
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,680
you can't do anything.
765
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,760
So, I believe we have some brain scans of real and posed laughter.
766
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,120
- We do.
- Let's have a look at some brain scans, everyone.
767
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,560
So, what we did here is we played people some sounds
768
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,920
and buried in there we had real laughs and posed laughs.
769
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,720
We didn't tell people anything about what they were going to hear,
770
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:03,840
and we didn't tell them anything about laughter,
771
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,920
and what we found is that the brain still cares.
772
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,760
You get different patterns of activation when you hear real laughs
773
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,200
versus posed laughs. So, for example, these regions here in blue,
774
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,240
they're showing you areas of activation in the auditory cortices,
775
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,120
just here above your ears,
776
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,440
and that is greater for the real laughs
777
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,480
than the posed laughs, significantly greater.
778
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,520
And what that seems to be because is when you hear real laughter,
779
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,280
you hear all these sounds you do not hear in any other context.
780
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,800
It's completely sort of unambiguous.
781
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,360
In contrast, we all see all these regions in pink,
782
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,200
which are significantly more active to the posed laughter,
783
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,960
and this is a bit surprising to us, cos we were expecting the brain
784
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,920
to care very much about posed laughter as it's a bit, you know,
785
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,640
it's not spontaneous, it's not real,
786
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,040
but in fact it gives you more activation.
787
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,600
And the activation it's giving you is not in auditory parts
788
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,400
of the brain, it's in the parts of the brain you would expect to find
789
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,600
if you were to sit down and deliberately think about
790
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,240
what somebody else is thinking. So, I think what this speaks to
791
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,400
is the fact that when you hear somebody producing
792
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,000
a clearly posed laugh - a-ha-ha-ha -
793
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,280
there is some reason why that human being has produced that behaviour
794
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,200
and you are trying to work it out.
795
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,960
Are they laughing cos they're in pain? Cos they're embarrassed?
796
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,000
Cos they like you? Cos they want you to like them?
797
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,600
There's a reason why they're doing it
798
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,240
and that's why you're dwelling on it,
799
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,760
even if you're having your brain scanned and it sounds like
800
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,120
it's got nothing to do with you.
801
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,040
It's such an important social signal.
802
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,280
So, what happens if someone doesn't have the ability
803
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,560
to tell the difference?
804
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,360
Well, this is a very interesting question
805
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,160
that we're trying to go into at the moment.
806
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,000
So we've been doing some work, looking at how laughter is perceived
807
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,920
by people with different kinds of problems.
808
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,680
We've done some work in collaboration with colleagues at UCL
809
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,840
looking at teenagers who have conduct disorders,
810
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,560
and what you find is that, although the can behaviourally
811
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,400
tell the difference between real and posed laughter,
812
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,480
what they can't do, what they don't seem to do,
813
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,440
is to show this contagion.
814
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,360
They don't show this behavioural reaction,
815
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,720
so they don't want to join in when they hear the laughter
816
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:55,080
and their brains respond differently to the laughter.
817
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,160
So there does seem to be something genuinely different happening
818
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,120
when people process laughter
819
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,080
who are at risk of having more serious problems,
820
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,080
in terms of their social interactions.
821
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,720
Wow, interesting.
822
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,080
OK, so we've found out what laughter is
823
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,720
and we know why we enjoy doing it.
824
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,120
Final question - why do we laugh when we find things funny?
825
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,160
Well, if only someone had a grand, unifying theory of comedy.
826
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,440
Bit of luck - they do.
827
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,960
Nestling beneath America's mighty Rocky Mountains
828
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,360
is the University of Colorado at Boulder.
829
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,920
One of its many architecturally unambitious buildings contains a man
830
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,080
who claims to have discovered why we find things funny.
831
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,200
His name is Professor Peter McGraw.
832
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,680
We're at the University of Colorado, Boulder, at the lead school
833
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,160
and we're headed to the human research lab
834
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,080
which we affectionately refer to as HuRL.
835
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,400
Unfortunately, even the science of humour
836
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,320
has a kind of boring backdrop.
837
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,520
I wish I could tell you that in a room over here
838
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,520
we had a whole bunch of rubber chickens and whoopee cushions
839
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,960
that we need to just pull out for our studies.
840
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,680
Yet, despite, or maybe because of, this anodyne beige interior,
841
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,280
it's here that Professor McGraw has devised
842
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,600
his grand, unified theory of comedy.
843
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,240
Humour deconstructed, laid bare and explained.
844
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,040
So, most things in the world are OK.
845
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:37,320
They're benign.
846
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:41,520
They're not funny.
847
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,760
And then, of course, there's a certain set of things in the world,
848
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,280
you know, whether it be...
849
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,640
..bad traffic or an annoying co-worker...
850
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,440
..a tragedy...
851
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,320
..that's a violation.
852
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,680
This creates a boring reaction, this creates a negative reaction.
853
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,520
But when you bring these two appraisals together
854
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,720
and you create a benign violation,
855
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:14,720
this sort of sweet spot that sits between being bored
856
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:16,880
and being offended,
857
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:22,080
and you have this moment of levity, this uplifting feeling of amusement,
858
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,560
you say, "Hey, that's funny,"
859
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,920
and then you laugh to communicate to others
860
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,280
that this violation is actually benign.
861
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,880
Word of the theory's power has spread.
862
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,000
Local comedian Nathan Lund is keen to see
863
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,960
if benign violation theory can rescue one of his jokes
864
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,440
that even he thinks might be too offensive.
865
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,840
- What's the joke?
- Saying that I've been working on
866
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,080
a type of clear mayonnaise
867
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,880
called I Can't believe It's Not Cum, but...
868
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,120
But that's...
869
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,560
- That's kind of a violation...
- That goes too far.
870
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,160
- Yeah, that one goes too far, right?
- It might.
- I don't know yet.
871
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,800
- People...
- When it gets that "Uuggh."
872
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,120
I also wonder if it's just too much, like, to go from,
873
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,200
you know, clear mustard, that's pretty harmless,
874
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,560
and then all of a sudden I'm bringing up...
875
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,960
You know.
876
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,680
After much debate, Professor McGraw and Nathan Lund come up with
877
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,920
a solution they hope moves the joke away from violation
878
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,840
just far enough to be funny.
879
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,840
Happy to have him here.
880
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,840
Please give a nice Boulder Comedy Show welcome
881
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,560
to Nathan Lund, everybody.
882
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,280
Now it's crunch time for clear mayonnaise,
883
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,400
for Nathan and for benign violation theory.
884
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,160
I don't have a lot of money, I'm hoping to make some money this year
885
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,320
with a new product I have coming out.
886
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Clear mustard is what I've invented.
887
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,120
I'm calling it Ham Sanitizer.
888
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,600
LAUGHTER
889
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,680
So, if you see Ham Sanitizer in stores, that's me, give it a shot.
890
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,800
But I'm also working on a follow-up condiment - clear mayonnaise,
891
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,240
which I'm calling I Can't believe It's Not Semen.
892
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,320
- LAUGHTER
- So, if you see...
893
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,000
If you see that, that means people have been buying Ham Sanitizer,
894
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,960
if I can follow it up with more clear condiments.
895
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,760
So, do I have to explain all forms of comedy
896
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,320
for this theory to be right?
897
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,480
No.
898
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,360
I just have to be able to explain comedy better
899
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,480
than the other humour theories.
900
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,880
And so, in many ways, it's kind of a horse race
901
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,880
and I think I have a pretty fast horse.
902
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,160
APPLAUSE
903
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Well, freshly arrived from Colorado in a matter transporter
904
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,160
that we'll be looking at in next week's Horizon,
905
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,560
ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Professor Peter McGraw.
906
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,600
APPLAUSE
907
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,200
Thank you for coming.
908
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,320
Come in, take a seat.
909
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,600
So, you think you have a pretty fast horse,
910
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,960
you think your theory is pretty good on comedy.
911
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,480
I mean, there's not a lot of good competition, so...
912
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,720
Well, there's three main theories on comedy,
913
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:07,640
- so let's go through those first.
- Sure, sure.
914
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,120
So, these are, these theories go back 2,500 years
915
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,680
to Plato and Aristotle.
916
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,480
So, Robin will remember some of them.
917
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,680
LAUGHTER
918
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,720
Go on. So, the first theory...
919
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,480
..is superiority theory.
920
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,280
And this is the notion that comedy is a game -
921
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,200
there's a winner, there's a loser -
922
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,400
and we laugh at other people's follies.
923
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,440
- OK, excellent, so that's the first theory.
- First theory.
- Superiority.
924
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,800
And then there's release theory or relief theory.
925
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,440
Er, Freud gets a lot of the credit for this.
926
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:44,920
And the notion is that we laugh at things that kind of release
927
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,520
these sort of sexual and aggressive tendencies
928
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:48,760
that we sort of hide away,
929
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,120
that are part of our personality that are not supposed to come out,
930
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,560
and so comedy is a safe way for these things to come out.
931
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,840
OK, and the third theory?
932
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,120
Is incongruity theory.
933
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,280
- Which is the big...
- It's the big one, it's the 800 pound gorilla.
934
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,280
It's the one that people sort of spontaneously come up with
935
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,320
when you ask them what makes things funny,
936
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,240
and it takes various forms but the most common
937
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,560
is sort of a mismatch of expectations and reality.
938
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,160
So you expect one thing and you get something else,
939
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,240
and that is supposed to be delighting.
940
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,560
OK, so those are the three main theories in comedy,
941
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,000
and had been for a very long time.
942
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,400
- Yes.
- No-one's really given it much thought beyond that.
943
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,120
So your theory is, again, benign violation.
944
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,320
That's right, yeah.
945
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,000
So, the theory takes into account that many of the things
946
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,920
that we laugh at kind of have a dark side,
947
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,000
so that's acknowledged in superiority theory,
948
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,760
it's acknowledged in relief theory.
949
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,200
That is that there's something wrong, there's something amiss,
950
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,560
there's something threatening about that situation.
951
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,480
But of course the things that are wrong or amiss and threatening,
952
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,800
they don't make us laugh, they make us cry,
953
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,440
they disgust us, they offend us.
954
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,240
And so you have this negative arousal
955
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:57,320
that comes from that dark side,
956
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,440
and then it flips and then you delight
957
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,880
and you have this positively arousing feeling, and then...
958
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,560
I like to believe that laughter is that signal that this situation
959
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,440
that seems wrong is actually OK.
960
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,480
I mean, the thing I love about your theory
961
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,360
is the idea that everyone has a different Venn diagram.
962
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,280
- Yes.
- Everyone's drawn it very differently.
963
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,760
So something that I might find...
964
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,800
I might say, "Well, that isn't a violation to me,
965
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,240
"I'm happy to laugh about that,"
966
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:23,560
someone else might go, "Not on the BBC, thank you."
967
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,000
And someone else might go, "You gotta give me more."
968
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,400
The things that are wrong, and the things that are OK in the world
969
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,240
change over time.
970
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,360
So you listen back to old comedy
971
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,040
and sometimes it's horribly offensive and bigoted now,
972
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,320
from our perspective,
973
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,200
and sometimes it's totally boring and confusing,
974
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,760
and it's because the world has changed.
975
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,040
And so, in many ways,
976
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,160
good comedy really reflects the values of a society
977
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,240
and the moral norms and the beliefs in a society,
978
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,160
and those are constantly in flux.
979
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,040
So, it's not just the individuals that move
980
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,680
those kind of Venn diagrams of, you know, where that line is,
981
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,640
it's a society as a whole that moves them
982
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,520
and different nations have them in different places as well, yeah.
983
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,720
Yes. Every so often you find something that lasts.
984
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,440
I mean, it still won't last forever,
985
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,080
but my son is very keen on listening to
986
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,160
very old Tony Hancock radio programmes,
987
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,520
and it's surprising how much of that has lasted,
988
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,120
probably because it was hugely influential.
989
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,160
It was basically you could draw a line straight from that to Seinfeld,
990
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,800
and it's quite interesting how every so often you run across something
991
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,480
that's almost jarringly out of place.
992
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,440
It's very interesting, from my perspective,
993
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:32,640
the kind of comedy that I do,
994
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,320
the idea that no-one's ever laughed at an offensive joke,
995
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,160
because, by dint of laughing, they're saying that,
996
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,840
"No, this isn't a violation to me, this is all fine."
997
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,480
- Mm-hmm.
- We can laugh about anything.
998
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,840
It's not that it's completely fine, right?
999
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,720
That's the thing that's so difficult about it all.
1000
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:51,640
The things that are completely fine
1001
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,200
is like you listening to me, not very funny.
1002
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,240
Right? And so, there has to be something edgy that plays that role.
1003
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,240
- This guy.
- This guy right here.
- I think... I really like the theory.
1004
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,240
I mean, I really feel like it makes sense to me
1005
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:05,560
in a way that the others don't.
1006
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,080
But I'd be very interested to know what Sophie and Robin make of this.
1007
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:10,160
No pressure.
1008
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,880
Well, I was going to say, actually, this is kind of interesting because,
1009
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,360
if you look at the origins of laughter as we have it in humans,
1010
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,760
it actually comes from the play vocalisation in monkeys and apes,
1011
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:26,000
and what that basically is is a comment on what I'm doing now.
1012
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,080
When I bite you, don't take it seriously.
1013
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,000
So, it's doing exactly this,
1014
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,880
it's just saying, "Look, it may look aggressive, but actually it's not."
1015
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,440
And I think it's... The thing I find interesting,
1016
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:37,880
and you mentioned it in the film,
1017
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,880
is that people are kind of appraising the situation,
1018
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,560
they're coming to a decision about it.
1019
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,680
And there is some very interesting data
1020
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,280
showing that people will rate jokes as being funnier
1021
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,880
if they think they've been told by a comedian
1022
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,560
than if they think they've been told by somebody who's famous but not...
1023
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:54,960
does not have that role.
1024
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,520
So, if somebody thinks a joke's been told by Jimmy Carr,
1025
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,000
they'll rate it as more amusing
1026
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,440
than if they think it's been told by Jamie Oliver,
1027
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,920
and that does suggest that people aren't just...
1028
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,880
Their appraisal is including the person who is producing it.
1029
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,800
And I think that kind of might speak in, socially,
1030
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,960
to the kind of the people who you will and won't let make you laugh.
1031
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,800
You know, you are going to laugh more with people you know and like,
1032
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,160
and you may read their intentions as being more benign.
1033
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,680
I think that's very true of political correctness as well,
1034
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,200
cos I often get called out for saying, "Oh, you're not very politically correct,"
1035
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,880
but I always think I am within context.
1036
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,040
Onstage, in front of 1,000 people, telling jokes,
1037
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,960
political correctness doesn't really belong in that space for me.
1038
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,360
So, as soon as whenever you get called out by the press
1039
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,400
as a comedian and they say, "Ban this filth,"
1040
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,720
it tends to be that they've taken it from a comedy show,
1041
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,240
put it on the front of the Daily Mail
1042
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:42,760
and gone, "This is disgraceful!"
1043
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,560
Well, you shouldn't have printed it, then.
1044
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,360
OK, how about some good news?
1045
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:48,760
Take a look.
1046
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,720
When this man started his career,
1047
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:58,160
his ideas were considered
1048
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,480
even more avant-garde than the buildings he now inhabits.
1049
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,600
Today, however, he's established a global reputation
1050
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,800
as one of the world's leading neurobiologists.
1051
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,800
And all because he discovered he could hear rats squeak.
1052
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,920
RATS SQUEAK
1053
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,320
You're hearing the squeaking through the ultrasound detector.
1054
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,280
If we didn't have these detectors on,
1055
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,280
you would not be hearing anything.
1056
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,800
Once he'd heard the squeaks,
1057
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,000
Panksepp was determined to discover what they might mean.
1058
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,600
One morning I woke up and said,
1059
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,400
"What if that is laughter?
1060
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,960
And I said, "Well, then you should be able to tickle animals."
1061
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,160
And we tickled the first rat, and it chirped like crazy.
1062
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,520
The second rat...
1063
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:57,760
As a matter of fact,
1064
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:03,560
every rat except some really neurotic ones have chirped.
1065
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:09,840
To the casual observer,
1066
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,120
it might look like the rats aren't laughing at all,
1067
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,560
that their tiny chirps are in fact cries for help.
1068
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,520
But not only are the vocalisations identical
1069
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,080
to the noises made in play,
1070
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,360
the rats' behaviour tells its own story.
1071
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,320
They are following my hand
1072
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,720
because it's a hand that has brought them great joy.
1073
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:35,600
HE CHUCKLES
1074
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,400
Oh, he just bit me.
1075
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,560
- HE LAUGHS
- But he didn't hurt me.
1076
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,120
So that's their way of indicating, "Come on, let's play." Ooh!
1077
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,920
- I love rats.
- HE LAUGHS
1078
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,080
They're such fun animals, so smart and so emotional.
1079
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:57,880
As far as we can tell, we've got the same basic emotions as rats.
1080
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,600
But Panksepp's idea, that rats have emotions,
1081
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,080
did little to endear him to his colleagues.
1082
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,640
People say you've been giving human qualities to animals -
1083
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:12,920
anthropomorphism -
1084
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,640
and I tell them I have not been doing anything of the sort.
1085
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,680
I am doing zoomorphism.
1086
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,800
I am trying to understand the animal mind
1087
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,240
as a way to illuminate the human mind.
1088
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,200
The critics argue that our complex brains are so different
1089
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,520
to rats' brains that any comparison is meaningless.
1090
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:40,160
But the reality is emotions occur in the evolutionary ancient brain,
1091
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,200
the part we share with all mammals, including rats.
1092
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,280
And we know that animals that have been bred for high laughter
1093
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,840
are resistant to depression.
1094
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,960
That means they have chemistries that protect them
1095
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,080
against the vicissitudes of life.
1096
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,480
Animals that have been bred for lower laughter
1097
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,520
are susceptible to depression.
1098
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,720
If we understand animal emotional processes
1099
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,440
at the fundamental instinctual level,
1100
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,480
I think we will have a science of human basic emotions,
1101
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,080
and that's very valuable for understanding ourselves
1102
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,640
and having a more sophisticated biological psychiatry.
1103
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:27,400
Panksepp's idea was to use the rats' laughter to identify
1104
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,600
the precise area in the ancient brain involved in happiness,
1105
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,320
and in so doing to identify the neurochemistry responsible.
1106
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,800
Using that approach, a group from Northwestern University in Chicago
1107
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,360
identified a happiness neurotransmitter.
1108
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,720
They call it GLX-13.
1109
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:47,000
Catchy.
1110
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,640
And they've also developed a drug to stimulate its production.
1111
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,640
In 2013, they started human clinical trials.
1112
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,400
The results were so impressive,
1113
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:02,400
that two years later it was bought by a drugs company for 560 million.
1114
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,200
Surprising as it is,
1115
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,320
£560 million is not bad for buying the rights
1116
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,600
to the most powerful item on the horizon.
1117
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,480
It's a new way of treating depression -
1118
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,480
an antidepressant that, instead of reducing sadness,
1119
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,560
promotes happiness.
1120
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,120
It's an approach that shows great promise,
1121
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,680
and all this from tickling rats.
1122
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:35,680
Rat laughter forces you to think about the molecules of social joy,
1123
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:42,840
so, you know, I am pleased and surprised in retrospect
1124
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,280
that we got that far.
1125
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,640
And, you know, it's one of the wonderful things of science -
1126
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,600
there's always surprises.
1127
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,040
So, that's me out of a job.
1128
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,600
Comedy in pill form - I suppose it had to happen sometime.
1129
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,440
We had a good run. LAUGHTER
1130
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,360
So, back to our questions - what is laughter?
1131
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,040
Why do we laugh? And what has it got to do with comedy?
1132
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,040
- I think we've answered it, haven't we?
- Yeah.
1133
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:11,680
Laughter's a social emotion.
1134
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,920
Social activity,
1135
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,720
pre-language vocalisation.
1136
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:18,680
OK. Why do we laugh?
1137
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:23,200
Originally it really is designed to allow us to bond with each other,
1138
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,720
but actually the endorphins that trigger out
1139
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:27,520
in effect tune the immune system.
1140
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,920
So they actually do make you healthier.
1141
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,320
But it's very ancient, it is,
1142
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,560
I mean, it predates language
1143
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,960
probably by about a million and a half years, I would say.
1144
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,440
Wow. OK. And what's it got to do with comedy?
1145
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,800
Well, comedy fundamentally is about pointing out
1146
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,120
what's wrong with the world
1147
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,960
and doing it in a way that is acceptable to the audience,
1148
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,840
so creating benign violations and delighting others.
1149
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,200
Here's a question for all three of you.
1150
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:55,480
Could it be said that laughter makes us human?
1151
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,600
No.
1152
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,960
- I would say so.
- I don't think so.
1153
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,000
- It's just too...
- OK, so Robin's my favourite.
1154
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,360
- LAUGHTER
- I get the free tickets to his shows.
1155
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,760
I'd like to thank Robin and the other two guests... Meh.
1156
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,200
So, you think it...?
1157
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:12,720
Well, in the sense that it does mark a key boundary point
1158
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,240
from which everything else spins.
1159
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:19,200
And of course the big thing about laughter is this breath control
1160
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,160
and all this sort of control of the musculature,
1161
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,880
the intercostal muscles in the chest wall,
1162
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,480
and without that, language couldn't have evolved.
1163
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,120
I mean, we've literally nailed this episode of Horizon.
1164
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,240
LAUGHTER I'd like to thank our guests -
1165
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,800
Sophie Scott, Robin Dunbar and Peter McGraw,
1166
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,480
and thank you all for laughing.
1167
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,920
APPLAUSE
98968
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