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1
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G'day, Shaun.
2
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Do you understand
you're under arrest?
3
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He's not dead.
I did not kill or murder him.
4
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720
No. Mate, Carlo's dead.
5
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,720
Can you tell me what happened?
6
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When a person is accused of a crime,
7
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it's often the job of a jury
to decide their fate.
8
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But do juries always get it right?
9
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To find out, for the first time in
Australia,
10
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we're following a jury
through a criminal trial.
11
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Shaun Yang did unlawfully
kill Carlo Levetto.
12
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With actors restaging
a real case, word-for-word.
13
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Where in previous statements
have you ever told anyone
14
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that Mr Yang's
crying was a temper tantrum?
15
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- Is that a question?
- Yes!
16
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But just as in a real court,
17
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the jurors are everyday people.
18
00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:44,680
- That was hard to watch, huh?
- Blimey!
19
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,880
But there are moments when I do
feel sorry for the accused.
20
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I don't know the guy!
I have no sympathy.
21
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Very few of us
have witnessed the inner workings
22
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,440
of a jury trial. Until now.
23
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Everybody agrees there was a fight?
24
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No, we don't agree
there was a fight.
25
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I took "fight" to be "argument."
26
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Argument.
27
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We'll follow 12 jurors
28
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as they work to decipher a baffling
criminal trial.
29
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One, two... Down!
30
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,840
They must deliberate
on the evidence...
31
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In his anger, he tried,
and grabbed him around the throat
32
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just to finish him off.
33
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And agree unanimously on a verdict.
34
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And you're saying, "No, it can't be
Shaun, it can't be Shaun!"
35
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Well, who else was it then?
36
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960
Will the jury
convict an innocent man?
37
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Hang on, he's supposed
to convince us, right?
38
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Or will they free one who is guilty?
39
00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,080
I'm very unlikely
to change my mind.
40
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,160
Ohhh!
41
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,880
The jurors reveal their strengths,
42
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and their prejudices.
43
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,440
I totally recognise
that I do have a bias.
44
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I only had one opinion
of criminals and they're guilty.
45
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They're all liars.
46
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I think it's such
a big responsibility.
47
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It's essentially deciding
the fate of someone's life.
48
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Will our 12 jurors arrive at the same
verdict as the original trial?
49
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And if it doesn't, I wonder what that
means for the real Shaun?
50
00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,840
As they face a decision
that will shock to the core.
51
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,200
How say you?
52
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,680
Is the accused guilty or not guilty?
53
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,520
I solemnly and sincerely...
54
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,560
Declare and affirm...
55
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,360
- That I will give...
- A true verdict...
56
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According to the evidence.
57
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,440
A recent study has revealed only
30% of Australians
58
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,440
have faith
in the country's justice system.
59
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,320
So, we're putting it to the test
60
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,320
by re-enacting
a real manslaughter case.
61
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,360
All rise.
62
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,080
Using actors in the courtroom...
63
00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,240
And 12 everyday Australians
listening to every word.
64
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:05,800
It's a rare insight for us to observe
a group of citizens
65
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,960
with a real case,
with real transcripts,
66
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,280
go through that deliberation process.
67
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,480
- It is a great opportunity
to see how the process works.
68
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,280
One thing that I've learnt
over my life experience
69
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,160
is not to speculate about what the
jury might be going to do.
70
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,880
There's just no
way of reading a jury.
71
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,160
I'm a massive Judge Judy fan to be,
to be completely honest.
72
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,360
I've been called up to jury duty
73
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a couple of times where
I haven't been able to do it
74
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,640
because of my studies.
75
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,440
And this was the time.
I thought, well, why not?
76
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,760
I probably a little bit
more biased towards not guilty.
77
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,000
Because nobody has been actually
improved by being in prison, right?
78
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,640
And jump, go, go, go, go, go, go!
79
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,240
I'm a bit of an activist.
80
00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,600
So, if there's wrongs in the world,
81
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,280
I will happily go on social media
and people will defriend me.
82
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,080
Come, Digs! Come! C'mon!
83
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,960
But I don't care.
84
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,760
It is a big responsibility.
85
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,240
I'm either going to come out
at the end of it and go,
86
00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:15,520
"Yeah, you know what?
This system is the best system."
87
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,360
Or, "This is terrible,
I'm not going to commit a crime."
88
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:23,680
The restaged trial
will take place over eight days
89
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,360
in this former courthouse in Sydney.
90
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,680
Depending on the case,
it can be terribly emotional.
91
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,360
Hence the need to say to the jury,
"Put aside sympathy,
92
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,720
"put aside prejudice, be objective,
be judicial in your function."
93
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Nice! Oh, this is so lovely!
94
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,640
Oh, wow.
95
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,040
It's so bright and light!
96
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,320
So, this is where we're gonna
hang out for the next week or so... ?
97
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,720
Better not drink too much,
98
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,560
'cause I'll be wanting a piss
break every half-an-hour.
99
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,680
The older you get,
the harder it is to hold it in!
100
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,600
True. True.
Have you had your prostate checked?
101
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:03,840
Nah, oh, yeah.
102
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,000
I've always wanted to be a juror.
103
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,680
It is something where you can make
a small impact
104
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,920
of perhaps righting a wrong.
105
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,120
The jurors' first task
is to choose a foreperson,
106
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,680
whose job it will be to
communicate with the judge,
107
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,320
and ultimately deliver the verdict.
108
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,440
So, does anybody
want to be foreperson?
109
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It looks like we have
an enthusiastic contender.
110
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,040
Yes!
111
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I'm, I'm voting for that.
112
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,920
OK, great 'cause I didn't
want this to be a bribe.
113
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,560
But I brought everyone
an emotional support potato.
114
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I hope I don't come across
too strong
115
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,680
and that I may offend somebody just
by being a forceful person.
116
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You know, a big personality.
117
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Sometimes my mouth goes faster
than my brain.
118
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,120
- So, are you the foreman?
- I think so.
119
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,680
- Oh, OK.
- Did you want to be foreperson?
120
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:56,960
- No!
- OK.
121
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,120
Has anyone done jury service before?
122
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,280
- No.
- No.
123
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,160
Never.
124
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,920
I love all your tattoos,
they're amazing.
125
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,640
My mother's not happy with it.
126
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,560
My son wanted me to get a tattoo.
127
00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,560
- Oh, really?
- Yeah.
128
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,560
- And why didn't you?
- I don't like pain!
129
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,120
Yeah!
130
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,240
I'm very thin.
And I'm covered in tattoos.
131
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,240
And usually,
especially to older generations,
132
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that can kind of influence somebody
133
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,680
to assume that I'm somebody
that I'm not.
134
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,600
- Guy, what was your number?
- Three.
135
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- You're three.
- Who's one?
136
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I'm one.
137
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,880
When they gave you your number,
were you just like, "Yes?"
138
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,160
Well, that's what my name means,
so it feels right.
139
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,400
Oh, does it?
140
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,040
- It feels correct!
- Oh, there you go.
141
00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,000
- What is your name?
- Tahi.
142
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,640
- What's that, Hawaiian?
- In what language?
143
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- Maori.
- Maori.
144
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,240
- Right.
- How cute!
145
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,000
Are you ethnically Maori,
a little bit, no?
146
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,320
- My dad. Yeah.
- Uh huh.
147
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,440
It's interesting to put the fate
of someone in the hands of people
148
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that, don't really know
what they're doing.
149
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,800
So, we do need to pick
a foreperson.
150
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,840
- Yes.
- And have we done that?
151
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,560
- Yep.
- No. Oh, have we?
152
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,120
- I mean I just...
- Unless someone else wants to?
153
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,680
- Yes!
- That's what they wanted us to do.
154
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,600
Yeah, absolutely.
I-I thought, I thought it was done,
155
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,800
but that's... if anybody else
wants to be a foreperson?
156
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,200
I think I'm really good at being
in charge. Just taking over.
157
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,400
- So, you've put yourself up?
- Yes.
158
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,960
Does anyone
else want to be juror...
159
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,240
I was just gonna say, before I wasn't
thinking I was gonna do this, right?
160
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,040
But then I was thinking about what my
career has been and the experience
161
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,120
of sort of putting together groups
of people from different cultures
162
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,600
and countries,
as a creative director.
163
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And making sure that everyone's
point of view is heard
164
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,280
and keeping the team working.
165
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,440
I've just had that kind
of experience. So...
166
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:41,480
Yep.
167
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,560
I just, ah, that's my pitch.
168
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,640
I occasionally tell people
I'm a member of Mensa,
169
00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:48,520
which surprises a few people.
170
00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:52,560
I have an IQ that's in the top
point-five percentile.
171
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,160
I did the test for Australia Mensa
172
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,640
and surprised myself and got in.
173
00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,640
So, it's something I tell
some people.
174
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,520
Now I've told way too many people.
175
00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:05,920
Shall we do a secret ballot
176
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,080
and I'll just give everyone
a little bit of paper and if...?
177
00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,320
- Sure!
- That'll do.
178
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,600
That's a great suggestion.
179
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,040
Alright.
180
00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,320
So, it's Mish and Guy.
181
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,640
It's M-I-S-H.
182
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,640
- What's your history?
- Yeah.
183
00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:28,480
Yeah, I'm an ex-prison officer.
184
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,320
- Oh, really?
- Oh, wow! OK.
185
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,560
Yeah.
186
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,320
When I was a prison officer,
187
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I wasn't really interested in why
they got caught
188
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,080
or why they were in jail.
189
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,920
To me, they were
just guilty and liars.
190
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,000
Ah, why did you get out of it then?
191
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,360
- I didn't like it.
- Yeah?
192
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,680
Yeah. I didn't care about
the threats for myself.
193
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:47,920
You had a family, of course.
194
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,120
But when they start threatening
my family and all that, it was like,
195
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,640
- no, time to get out.
- Yeah.
196
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,520
Fuckin' hell! Are you joking?
197
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,040
No, serious. Yeah.
198
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,000
- So, do we have a result?
- We're a hung jury!
199
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,440
Oh, stop it, that's hilarious!
No so, I'm happy to give it to Guy.
200
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,960
I have no problem giving it to Guy.
201
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,760
Well, congratulations, Guy.
202
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,520
No, it's...
203
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,440
Curses to Guy!
204
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,160
It was in the bag for me!
205
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,880
Hello. Jury,
thank you for being here today.
206
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,840
We're ready to proceed into court.
207
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,760
So, if you could please
jump into your numbers
208
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,520
and bring your notebooks
with you, if you wish.
209
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,560
Alright, please follow me.
210
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,160
The trial will run for eight days.
211
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,280
And the jurors have no idea
which case they're about to judge.
212
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,120
I'm very curious about that.
213
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,280
Oh, I can't wait to find out. It's
like a box of chocolates, isn't it?
214
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,320
Because I don't know what the case
is going to be like.
215
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,160
Well, I've never been in a court
before today.
216
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,640
It immediately becomes so formal
and serious, it's like, "Oh, gosh,
217
00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,600
"no we're really doing this."
218
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:14,240
The jury, Your Honour.
219
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,720
Good morning, jury.
220
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,120
All names, dates, locations and
images have been changed
221
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,840
to protect identities from the
original trial.
222
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,080
Serving on a jury may be
a completely new experience
223
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,720
for some, if not all of you.
224
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,920
It is therefore appropriate for me
225
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,960
to explain a number of matters to
you.
226
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,600
The accused person is presumed
innocent
227
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,680
unless and until the Prosecution
proves he is guilty.
228
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,560
And that onus requires
the Prosecution to satisfy you
229
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,760
beyond reasonable doubt that the
charge has been proved.
230
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,160
Mr North.
231
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,960
I present an indictment.
232
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,440
On 12 March, 2022, Shaun Yang did
unlawfully kill Carlo Levetto.
233
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,920
The defendant pleads not guilty.
234
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,840
The ultimate question for these
jurors,
235
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,080
is whether the defendant, Shaun Yang,
236
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,320
is guilty of the manslaughter
of his partner Carlo Levetto.
237
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,280
Now, this trial will concentrate
238
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,920
on this death being caused
by the accused.
239
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520
What the Prosecution have to prove
in a manslaughter case,
240
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:38,560
is that the accused voluntarily
did a dangerous and unlawful act,
241
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,320
and any reasonable person
in the shoes of the defendant,
242
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,960
would have known that what
they were doing was likely
243
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,200
to have caused serious injury
or death to the victim.
244
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,440
The Prosecution does not
have to prove
245
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,680
the precise cause of death,
246
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,760
but it has to prove that it was the
accused that caused this death.
247
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,320
That is what this trial
will concentrate on.
248
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,240
The deceased, Carlo Levetto,
was about 65
249
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,240
and Shaun, the accused,
was about 20 years younger.
250
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,040
He'd been in a homosexual, domestic
relationship with the accused
251
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,640
for about four years.
252
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,040
They'd been having a few arguments
and fights
253
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,120
leading up to 12 March, 2022
254
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,960
and on that day the Crown
will allege they had a fight.
255
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,240
I am sick and tired...
256
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520
We weren't there, we cannot say what
the argument was about.
257
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:44,400
There are no witnesses who heard
the actual content of the argument.
258
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,240
As a result of that fight,
259
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,440
the deceased sustained injuries
to his chin, to his neck,
260
00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,640
to his chest and to the back
and side of this head,
261
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,640
and as a result of those injuries,
262
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,080
he died at the premises
in Petersham.
263
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,880
The evidence that will be called
264
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,640
will go towards those events
and facts.
265
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,800
Thank you, Mr Crown.
266
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,520
It's interesting where
we're seated,
267
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,040
and you can kind of just see
the defendant right across.
268
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,560
It's an intense atmosphere, I think.
269
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,920
It was nerve-racking
to start off with, that's for sure.
270
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,840
So, once all the information
started flowing in,
271
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,320
now I'm kind of addicted.
272
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,760
Shaun Yang's defence barrister
273
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,080
sets out the case
for his client's innocence.
274
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,280
Members of the jury.
275
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,240
A great deal of what is
going to happen in this case
276
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,640
will not be in dispute.
277
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,960
There has not been any issue that the
deceased man has passed away
278
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,560
or that he was in a relationship with
the accused.
279
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,280
The medical evidence, though,
is of fundamental importance.
280
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,440
The forensic pathologists will not
be able to tell you
281
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:52,960
what blow killed the deceased.
282
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,400
They will not be able to tell
you what happened.
283
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,200
They will not be able to tell you,
from the injuries that you will see,
284
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,400
from the photographs taken
of the deceased, after his death,
285
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,320
obviously, killed him,
286
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,560
because none of those injuries,
were life threatening.
287
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,120
None of them.
288
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,160
You will hear evidence
of what happens
289
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,840
when a person falls down the stairs
and hits their head.
290
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,680
You will see the premises
where the staircase is.
291
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:23,920
You will hear that the staircase
292
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,840
does not comply with appropriate
standards of building.
293
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,080
You will hear about DNA.
294
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,200
And you will hear about blood.
295
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,640
When you listen to the scientists,
and the doctors,
296
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,920
please listen very,
very carefully
297
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,400
as to what they are actually saying
they have recovered or found.
298
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,320
Thank you.
299
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,600
Thank you, Mr Benedetti.
300
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,160
Well, jury, now is a good time for a
short break. Thank you.
301
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,040
If the jury find Shaun
guilty of manslaughter,
302
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,440
he faces up to 25 years in prison.
303
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,120
If found not guilty, he walks free.
304
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,280
I was surprised of the seriousness
of the crime.
305
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,760
I wasn't expecting
it to be as brutal as it is.
306
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,280
So, we've got three folders.
All of them are identical
307
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,040
if anyone wants to...
308
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,240
It's all fascinating,
that's for sure.
309
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,480
I'm wracking my brain like, ooh.
310
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,080
In keeping with a real trial,
311
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,040
jurors can discuss the case
when they're together
312
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,360
and no-one else is present.
313
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,240
I'm amazed at Shaun, though.
314
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,800
Like, he's just sitting there.
315
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,960
Like, if that was me and people
were saying stuff about me,
316
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,880
I know you can't talk,
but I'd be like going like...
317
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,320
He just keeps one face!
318
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:11,760
I felt like he was emotionless.
319
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,720
But culturally,
Chinese can be very poker-faced.
320
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,600
I wanna know where they met.
321
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,480
Like if that, maybe no one else
agrees with me,
322
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,640
I think that's important.
323
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,720
I feel like some of the jurors
are kind of jumping to conclusions
324
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,640
based on, both his sexuality
and his ethnicity.
325
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,000
Like, I want to know if it was
a dating app, actually.
326
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:36,360
How would your chain of thought
change if it was, on a dating app,
327
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,800
instead of meeting in a bar?
328
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,360
Because that would vibe me into what
Carlos was looking for in a man
329
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,560
and the type he wanted to date.
330
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,560
And why does he want a younger man?
331
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,040
It could be multiple reasons why
he wants a younger man.
332
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,320
I just find that interesting,
the age gap.
333
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,280
20 years is lot,
it's a big age difference.
334
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,960
Different culture,
different nationalities.
335
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,400
It'll take a lot of understanding
and commitment
336
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,840
to keep a relationship like that
happy.
337
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,280
Lots of stuff coming
in which it seems like,
338
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,000
is it actually relevant, or we just-
why are we talking about this?
339
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:20,240
As soon as, as they said the guy's
in a "homosexual relationship,"
340
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,040
it was like, ah, not guilty.
341
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,680
Like, from that moment on,
342
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,480
I was just on a mission to defend
one of my own kind, right?
343
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,840
And yet, we still don't know
the actual cause of death.
344
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,160
It drives me nuts.
345
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,800
Hello, everybody. We're ready to
start moving to the court.
346
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,720
If I can get you to line up
for me, please?
347
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,480
I think it's good that it's such
a mixed bag of people.
348
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,080
Because I think if you put
like all university-educated, quote,
349
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,520
unquote, "woke" people in there,
it might have a different outcome.
350
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:53,640
When you've got 12 people
351
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,200
who are obviously coming
from very different backgrounds.
352
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,440
Completely random.
353
00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,720
That in itself is really scary.
354
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,480
You know, I mean, if I was going to
appear in a court
355
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,720
and I was going to be judged by 12
people,
356
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,520
if I got those 12 bigots that voted
in a certain way
357
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,000
in certain elections around
the world, or decisions, you know,
358
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,240
I'd be terrified.
359
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,600
In a New South Wales courtroom,
360
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,280
a manslaughter trial
is being restaged with actors,
361
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,440
using the transcripts
and testimonies from a real case.
362
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,960
A new jury of 12 ordinary
Australians
363
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,400
must decide if Shaun Yang
is guilty of manslaughter.
364
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,840
Ladies and gentlemen, the Crown will
now call his first witness.
365
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,920
The Crown calls Greg Bennett.
366
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,080
Having the power to convict
somebody is,
367
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,080
it's a huge responsibility.
368
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,040
Someone's life is hanging
in the balance.
369
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,440
Detective, would you state your name,
rank, and station, thanks?
370
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,480
Ah, Detective Leading Senior
Constable Greg Bennett
371
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,960
from the Parramatta Crime
Scene section.
372
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,680
And in relation to this case,
you were the Crime Scene Examiner
373
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,160
and Officer in Charge,
were you not?
374
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,680
Yes, I was.
375
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,600
Now, in relation to the deceased,
376
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,120
he was located at the base
of the internal stairs,
377
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,560
covered in a sheet.
378
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,880
Those stairs were located
at the end of the kitchen
379
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,040
and effectively in the dining room?
380
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,480
Yes.
381
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,600
The deceased was lying on his back,
382
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,280
with his head facing the west
and his feet to the east. Correct?
383
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,320
Yes.
384
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,520
And did you see a laceration
to the deceased's right chin area?
385
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,560
Yes, I did.
386
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,920
So, the next group of photographs,
five-to-nine, they show,
387
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,600
do they not, these various views
388
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,080
of the deceased's location and also
some of the blood staining?
389
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,440
Yes.
390
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,480
I can't work Shaun out.
He has that one expression.
391
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,760
I mean, even when they were showing
his partner's body and that,
392
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,480
he never once turned
around to have a look.
393
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,160
Any normal person would want to look.
394
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,960
I don't know,
he's very self-controlled.
395
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,000
In the kitchen of the premises,
I saw a disassembled fruit juicer
396
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,320
and some items that appeared
to have been washed up.
397
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,320
I then looked in the small compost
bin
398
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,840
and saw what appeared
to be carrot pulp.
399
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,960
Also on the bench, some leftover
carrot juice in a jug and a glass.
400
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,920
On the other side, I saw a
small-handled scrubbing brush
401
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,200
and two yellow sponges,
one of which was in the sink.
402
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,560
On the floor,
I saw what appeared to be fragments
403
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,680
of a beam above the dining table.
404
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,200
I saw an area on the beam
405
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,600
where a portion of the structure
had cracked and broken.
406
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,840
There was orange-coloured
staining near the damage
407
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,800
that appeared to be carrot pulp.
408
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,000
And then that's a close
view of that damage,
409
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,680
which also shows some of the carrot
pulp stain, correct?
410
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,160
Yes.
411
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,400
I examined a silver-coloured
metal object on the floor
412
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,600
near the deceased's feet.
413
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,040
I saw that this appeared to be a
component of the fruit juicer.
414
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,200
This item had a large amount
of blood smear.
415
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,040
There was nothing on the floor
underneath the item.
416
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800
OK. Can we please bring
our Exhibit C,
417
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,680
the metal bowl of the juicer
found at the crime scene,
418
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,360
which has already been tendered?
419
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,720
It's a strange feeling
to have something passed to you,
420
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,880
that might have resulted
in someone's death.
421
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,000
It was bigger and a bit heavier
than I expected it to be,
422
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,440
and I think,
it could be used as a weapon. Yeah.
423
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,240
The back of the deceased's hand
shows injuries, does it not?
424
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,480
Yes, it does.
425
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,360
So, those injuries appear
to be to the knuckle area?
426
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,560
Towards the knuckle, yes.
427
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,800
So, have a look at photograph 31.
428
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,520
That's a view, is it not, of injuries
on the deceased's chest.
429
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,120
- Is that right?
- Yes.
430
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,840
Those injuries, as you saw them,
are you able to describe them?
431
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,280
I described them at the time
as "scratches and surface bruising."
432
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,200
And the blood staining consisted
of fine splatters of blood
433
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,680
on the rug on either side
of the victim's head
434
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,080
and northern side of the rug,
a smudge on the wall
435
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,600
and a smudge on the handrail
of the stairs.
436
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,360
- Correct?
- Yes.
437
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,280
And 43 shows the staining
with the scales more visible?
438
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,840
Yes.
439
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,480
Thank you, Mr Bennett,
I have no further questions.
440
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,920
The court breaks
after more than two hours
441
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,280
of detailed prosecution evidence.
442
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,200
I'm like, maybe this is a dumb
question, but I was like,
443
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,360
are they trying to say that the
juicer caused injury to kill him?
444
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,400
I don't know.
445
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,960
Or are they saying that they're
not...
446
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,760
The juicer is just this element that
I can't get my head around.
447
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,120
But, you know,
I once had a machine go rogue on me.
448
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,160
It was a Mixmaster,
and all of a sudden,
449
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,320
the machine started to, like,
smoke, and the bowl started, like,
450
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,640
wobbling and swinging and stuff.
451
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,760
There's definitely a group
of people that are speculators.
452
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,560
So, when I saw the bowl there,
I'm like, "Yeah, it could, like,
453
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,840
"kill, I s'pose."
454
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,480
Borderline conspiracy theorists.
455
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,880
Are we thinking aliens? No?
456
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,560
There's a set of people that are very
deliberate in not being that.
457
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,200
There was a combination
of injuries.
458
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,320
There isn't one thing that kills
him. So, it's the causation.
459
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:06,960
'Cause I think that's why I think
it's manslaughter,
460
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,240
rather than murder.
461
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,680
I haven't got a picture
as to what happened
462
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,360
and I don't know
whether we ever will.
463
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,640
Unless he takes the stand, but then
he won't remember, he's too...
464
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,080
I'd love to,
I don't think we're going to,
465
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,200
but I would love to hear
the accused speak.
466
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,280
Mish and Mon have got some strong
views and they're very curious
467
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,800
about what might have happened.
468
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,800
That's a lot of blood, but that's not
a fatal amount of blood.
469
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,200
So, is it possible that the accused
picked up part of the juicer
470
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,000
and kind of attacked him with it.
Is that possible?
471
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,920
Or, he could have fallen
onto the blade.
472
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,160
Yeah, he could have.
473
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,640
'Cause of like a heart attack. Bang!
474
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,240
Hits him in there and it's,
and then it's flipped up?
475
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,160
- Ahhh, that's a good theory.
- And then it's flipped up.
476
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,680
But then why is he so far away?
477
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,120
Like, he's at the bottom
of the stairs.
478
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,800
It's like a big jigsaw
and we're sort of being fed pieces.
479
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,000
The blood on the handrail
seems really odd.
480
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,640
And we're starting to get some of the
edges, but not all of them yet.
481
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,480
If he'd fallen
down, wouldn't it be...
482
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,960
For me, it looked like a thumb
print and he's grabbed the rail
483
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,480
on the way down.
484
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,840
But, juicing, hit, heart attack.
485
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,920
- Juicer, hit.
- Fall.
486
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,160
- Yes.
- That's it.
487
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,920
I think he struggled to get Shaun's
attention maybe,
488
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,000
to go, to walk up the stairs and then
he's actually fallen...
489
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,560
Ohh. Yep.
490
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,880
There are a lot of dominating voices
jumping to conclusions.
491
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,840
The machine went rogue,
ricocheted, hit him in the chin.
492
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,440
He goes to go upstairs,
has a heart attack,
493
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,440
falls back down the stairs. Boom!
494
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,240
The more I hear these conclusions
that have no, yeah, basis,
495
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840
the more I get frustrated.
496
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,480
Yeah, I think we've,
I think we've nailed it.
497
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,480
Yep. We've solved this.
498
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,640
Not guilty. Let's get outta here.
499
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,480
Some pretty wild theories
buzzing around in there.
500
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,760
You should be crime
writers, you lot.
501
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,400
Good afternoon, everybody.
Day one of court session
502
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,400
is completely finished for the day.
Once you leave this jury room,
503
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,320
there is to be no discussing
the court case with anybody.
504
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,840
We wish you safe travels home,
we will see you tomorrow.
505
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,720
See you tomorrow, guys.
506
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,800
See ya. Thanks for the potato.
507
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,720
That's my pleasure!
508
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,760
A few in there I think
are off with the fairies.
509
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,320
I think they're having problems
grasping the idea
510
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,120
that we're just to deal
with the facts.
511
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,880
You know, all these what-ifs
and maybes and...
512
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920
Oh, it drives me crazy.
513
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,920
How other people would describe me?
Um, probably a cranky old fart.
514
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,520
When I was growing up,
515
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800
my punishment was the belt
across a bare arse.
516
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520
Yeah, for me, that punishment works.
517
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,440
It sort of teaches you respect
or teaches you from right and wrong.
518
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080
I tried to go for the police force,
519
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,560
but you had to be six-foot-tall
back in the day,
520
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,160
so I was about two inches too small.
521
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000
So, I joined up in the prisons.
522
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,920
And being a prison officer,
I've seen it all.
523
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,440
I can't tell you how many people
I found hanging in their cell.
524
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,520
Some of them I've managed
to save, but some didn't.
525
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,760
Lots of riots and fights.
I've had, you know,
526
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,200
criminals put biros straight
through the eyes of other crims.
527
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,760
Their ears have been cut off.
528
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,720
One bloke up in Long Bay
cut his own...his old fella off.
529
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,920
I was stabbed meself in the riots
up there. I hated it.
530
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Worst time of my life.
531
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,960
I don't know why I spent 14 years
there, to be honest.
532
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,000
I wasn't a very nice person,
especially to criminals.
533
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,000
I sort of never took the time
534
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,520
to individually find out
what they're about.
535
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,320
Just didn't care, to be honest.
536
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,840
I was just there to lock 'em up.
537
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,320
Yeah, it wasn't too bad.
538
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,360
You sort of...you start to get to
know all the rest of the jurors and,
539
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,920
yeah, who's who in the zoo,
sort of thing.
540
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Since I left the prisons,
I've tried to turn myself around
541
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,840
and not judge everybody as a whole,
542
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,640
but try to judge everybody
individually.
543
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Now I'd like to sit down
544
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,920
and actually see what's going on
inside their head,
545
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,920
why they've done what they've done.
So, yeah.
546
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,080
They have quiet parts inside the
courtroom,
547
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,840
like you could hear a pin drop.
548
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,040
So many times, I just felt like
fartin' you know, just to,
549
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,320
break up the seriousness of it
550
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,520
and vibrate along the bench.
551
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,400
I'm intrigued to find out
552
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,720
how this whole process works
from start to finish.
553
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,920
It's going to be fascinating.
I can't wait.
554
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Hopefully,
all the juicy stuff comes tomorrow.
555
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,360
It's day two
of the manslaughter trial.
556
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,240
Overnight, the jurors
have been reflecting
557
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,160
on what they've seen and heard.
558
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Last night, I couldn't sleep
for thinking about it.
559
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,040
I thought I would crash.
I was emotionally exhausted
560
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,680
by the end of the day.
561
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,320
But I just laid there rethinking
things,
562
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,360
and, and there are certain things
563
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,800
that I want
to get to the bottom of today.
564
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,480
Thank you.
565
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,040
- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
566
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400
Yeah, we get first choice at
the food. Gotta be happy about that.
567
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,840
Yeah, let's just lock,
can we lock the door from inside?
568
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,600
I think we're a great bunch.
We're all very different.
569
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,040
Craig is a ex-prison officer.
570
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,600
Harrish is a finance guy,
works for a start-up company.
571
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Mon is a funeral home director.
572
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,200
- Morning, guys.
- Guy is in advertising.
573
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,680
- Morning.
- Morning.
574
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,360
Audrey is a problem solver.
That's all she told me.
575
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,960
She's was quite coy.
576
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000
- Day two.
- Yes.
577
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,360
What do you want to know?
578
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,160
Well, I don't know
what there is to know.
579
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,440
Tahi is a music graduate.
580
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,680
Van, I don't exactly know his title,
581
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,840
but I know that he's in
entertainment.
582
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,000
Kathy worked in a firm,
I don't exactly know what industry.
583
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,120
Do you need to do some yoga?
584
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,680
Never did yoga.
585
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,320
- We can do it together, Rose.
- Yeah.
586
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,600
I feel like Rose is me,
but just a few years older.
587
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,120
How's your digestion going?
588
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,920
Good.
589
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,680
And Anya. I'm not sure about Anya.
590
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,840
I'm a sexologist and sex therapist
and relationship therapist.
591
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,760
If anybody on the jury
need any advice on sex,
592
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,880
or intimacy of any kind,
593
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,120
I will be totally there for it.
594
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,000
What do you do, Michael?
595
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,000
I'm a yoga...I'm a yoga guy.
596
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,920
You're so confident!
597
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,560
- My hips are good.
- That's all we need to know.
598
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,600
They're loose.
599
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,600
Do you have, like, arthritis,
a condition, or something?
600
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,000
- I've got arthritis, yeah.
- Oh.
601
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,200
That's why I stretch.
It starts in my hips.
602
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,160
It's actually ankylosing
spondylitis.
603
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600
- My son's got it.
- Oh, really?
604
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:23,640
And my husband had it.
605
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,080
- Oh, really?
- Oh, really?
606
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,200
Your husband had it?
607
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,600
- There's not many people that...
- So, he doesn't have it anymore?
608
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,200
- He died.
- Oh, I'm sorry!
609
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,640
Oh, I'm sorry.
610
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,520
It doesn't matter where you grew up,
or what you look like,
611
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,000
we've all banded together.
612
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,080
'Cause you're so young, I didn't,
didn't think of that.
613
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,960
Keep digging,
just put the shovel down already,
614
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,880
put the shovel down.
615
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,280
The fact that we've kind of gelled so
quickly, is, is a good thing.
616
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,000
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry!
I'm not paying attention.
617
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,200
I'm very excited
to see some evidence.
618
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,080
I will hold detail in my head.
619
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,160
I will be that elephant
that's 100 years old.
620
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:20,320
I need more evidence to see
if it's an accident or actual crime.
621
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,640
The jury, Your Honour.
622
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,080
Good morning, jury.
623
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,040
The Crown will now call
their second witness.
624
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,240
The Crown calls Alistair Lewis.
625
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,240
The prosecution calls
the first responders
626
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,680
who witnessed Shaun's behaviour when
Carlo hovered between life and death.
627
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,320
So, on Saturday March,
you commenced your shift at. 8:00a.m?
628
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,240
Yes.
629
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,480
About. 9:00a.m. You received a call
for a job in Petersham, correct?
630
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,120
Yes.
631
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,120
A man had called the ambulance
and hung-up crying, is that right?
632
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,800
Ah, that's-that's correct.
633
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,960
As you got out of your car,
634
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,760
did you see a man standing
outside the house,
635
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,400
you didn't know his name,
636
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,640
he was a European man aged
in his late fifties or sixties?
637
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,000
Ah, that's correct.
638
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,640
What did you see
when you walked inside?
639
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,680
I saw a man sitting at the bottom
of the stairs,
640
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:32,680
an Asian man aged
in his early-to- mid-forties.
641
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:34,320
He was, he was a small man.
642
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,480
And can you tell us what the Asian
man was doing when you entered?
643
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,640
Ah, he had a pillow on his lap.
644
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,400
There was another man,
645
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,560
who I assumed was the patient.
646
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,800
Do you think the Asian man
registered that you were there
647
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:49,920
to treat the patient?
648
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,600
Um, he was crying, really loudly.
649
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,800
Wailing, screaming.
650
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,480
And he was making so much noise
651
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,480
that it was quite hard for my
colleague and I to hear each other.
652
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,000
So, he definitely couldn't hear us.
653
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,760
And what did you observe
regarding the patient?
654
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,240
He, he was an older man.
He looked European.
655
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,120
He was also cold to the touch
and pale in perfusion.
656
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,360
Alex turned the defibrillator
machine on
657
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,040
and we started a cardiac arrest
response.
658
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,000
And I understand it's around
that moment that the police arrived?
659
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,360
Yes.
660
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,240
Police!
661
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,560
Did you see two ambulance officers
around an older male
662
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,200
that you now know
to be Carlo Levetto?
663
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,240
Yes, I did.
664
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,640
Hey, mate, mate make him
stay back there.
665
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,560
- Hey!
- Stay back there!
666
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,400
By this time, Yang was hysterical
and crying, correct?
667
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,000
Correct.
668
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Right, and did you then look
for anything that might reveal
669
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,000
the names of both men?
670
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,720
Ah, yes I searched the premises
671
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,320
for anything that could identify
the deceased, Levetto.
672
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,720
I went to the bathroom
673
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,840
and I collected a prescription
in the name of Carlo Levetto.
674
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,920
The prescription was for blood
pressure
675
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,680
and that the other two
were for sleep disorders.
676
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,240
Alex checked the heart monitor
again and said, "It's asystole,"
677
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,280
which means that there's no
activity in the heart.
678
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640
Ah, so, I set up a bag-mask
ventilator
679
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,480
and put in a Guedel's Airway,
680
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,360
which is a tube to stop the tongue
falling back
681
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,640
and to keep the airway clear.
682
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,120
Oh, hey mate. Can you come over and
take over compressions for me?
683
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,680
Yep, what do you want me to do?
684
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:38,040
And you're trained to perform
these, are you not, by the police?
685
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,840
Yes.
686
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,920
Did you notice any specific
injuries on Mr Levetto?
687
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,280
Ah, yes, I noticed that Levetto
had a laceration on his chin.
688
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,960
Does that show the laceration
you're referring to?
689
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,640
Ah, yes. Yes, it does.
690
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,800
Five, four, three, two, one. OK,
great.
691
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,320
So, we're going to dump that shock.
692
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,400
He's gone.
693
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,880
At this stage,
Yang was going berserk.
694
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,240
I mean, that is to say, that he was
struggling with the other officer.
695
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,280
- Steve.
- Hey, hey. Hey stay here.
696
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
The man became increasingly
difficult to control
697
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,120
and we took him outside to try
and calm him down.
698
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,320
He was really agitated.
699
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,000
He tried to break free
of Constable Reynolds's grip.
700
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,320
I got my handcuffs out
and handcuffed him,
701
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,760
so he couldn't hurt himself
or anyone else.
702
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,840
And then we escorted him
to the police car.
703
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,760
And I understand your colleague
tried to talk to him
704
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,040
about what had happened?
705
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
You do not need to say or do
anything if you do not wish to do so.
706
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,160
However, anything you do or say
may be recorded
707
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,280
and that recording may be used in
court, do you understand that?
708
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,320
It, it's too late.
I need my medication.
709
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,360
OK, what's your medication for?
710
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,520
Depression.
711
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,040
OK. Hey what happened this morning?
712
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,400
We, we had a fight.
713
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,440
OK Shaun, what was the fight about?
714
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,640
I need my medication. I need my...
715
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,920
And that's all he said.
716
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,400
Thank you, I have no further
questions.
717
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,600
It's very confronting to see
some of the evidence.
718
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,160
And to actually be living it
minute-by-minute
719
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,080
can be quite unsettling in a way.
720
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,320
The defence barrister now
has an opportunity
721
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,360
to cross-examine the prosecution
witness.
722
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,960
He's working to challenge the value
and veracity of the evidence.
723
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,000
Did you see if any of the police
did any of the compressions
724
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,440
to try
and resuscitate the deceased?
725
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,480
Ah, yes. So,
there was one police officer
726
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,360
who assisted us
with the resuscitations.
727
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,800
In terms of compressions,
one hand over the wrist,
728
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,240
the compressions are quite hard
at times, aren't they?
729
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,600
Yes.
730
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,760
And you're well aware that at least
on some occasions,
731
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,480
it breaks the person's ribs?
732
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,560
Yes.
733
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,240
And it causes bruising?
734
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,880
I suppose so, yes.
735
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,520
The only injury you noticed
was the injury to the chin.
736
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,760
It was on the right-hand
side, basically?
737
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Yes.
738
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,960
And did you notice a part
of the juicer
739
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,840
that was in close proximity to where
the deceased lay?
740
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,680
I noticed a pot. But I wasn't sure
what that, what it was.
741
00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:02,200
Mr Yang is on the floor
and he's thrashing about
742
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,520
and your colleague it trying to cover
him.
743
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,800
Yes.
744
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,880
It was your word, you actually used
the word "berserk."
745
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,880
I -yeah, yes, yes I did.
746
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,160
And two police officers
eventually handcuff him.
747
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,880
But it wasn't an instantaneous
action, was it?
748
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,320
He wasn't voluntarily being cuffed?
749
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,000
Ah, no, there was a,
a scuffle for a short period
750
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,720
of time, I believe, yes.
751
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,920
Thank you, Officer Reynolds. No
further questions from the Defence.
752
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Mr Crown, any further questions?
753
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000
No, Your Honour.
754
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,520
How is everyone feeling?
755
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,840
- Hungry.
- I've got a bloody headache.
756
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,080
Yeah? Me too.
757
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,960
And there's a lot of information.
758
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:51,880
Oh, yeah.
759
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,280
Yeah, soak it all in.
760
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,120
It's like a tennis match.
I'm like, Prosecutor, witness,
761
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,320
Prosecutor, witness,
Prosecutor, witness.
762
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,560
And then Shaun.
What, what's Shaun's reaction?
763
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,200
Like, argh,
I can't get anything out of him.
764
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:04,240
No.
765
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Yeah, you really don't know if he's
feeling guilty or if he's very sad.
766
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,240
Yeah.
767
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,720
I like hearing the group.
768
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,920
You know, the collective differences
and the collective speculation.
769
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,640
No one knows what he was
like when it happened.
770
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:18,920
Right.
771
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,440
So, the "berserk" relates to when the
police and the ambulance arrived.
772
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,640
Right.
773
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,080
And I agree with some, I don't agree
with others. It's all fascinating.
774
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,760
Have you ever had a big,
major accident
775
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,240
where adrenaline
has shot your whole body?
776
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,760
You don't know what to do.
777
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,360
You're literally like a mind blank.
I think that's what happened here.
778
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040
He was just so shocked,
he was just, he was gone, he...
779
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,560
I'm someone that believes we should
take mental health into account,
though,
780
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,680
and not everyone will agree
with that and I understand that.
781
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,240
Because, do you know how some people
are like,
782
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,240
"Oh, not the mental health card,
get out of jail card?"
783
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,280
Like, I hear that a lot
from my own parents.
784
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,960
If mental health was used
as an issue,
785
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,800
I would really need a strong case
786
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,120
to convince me
787
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,120
that that was an excuse to be given
a pardon
788
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560
for some crime that's been committed.
789
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,840
Well, it's fast becoming more of an
excuse for people to get off.
790
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,320
It's never the case.
791
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,160
Yeah, and that's what I hear a lot,
even my parents are like, "Oh, bloody
hell!"
792
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,520
- And I'm like...
- Yeah.
793
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560
It's been refreshing and nice
to hear people
794
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,160
being so passionate about it.
795
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,080
And also taking into consideration
796
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,080
everyone's views without
necessarily going down their throat
797
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,880
or being aggressive about it.
798
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,080
Yet...
799
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,200
Just go and grab a seat
for me, alright?
800
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,880
Yeah, sit down, just there.
801
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,120
As the second day
of the trial continues,
802
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,120
the prosecution turns to Shaun's
behaviour
803
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,560
in the hours after his arrest.
804
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,000
Inspector,
will you give the court
805
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,000
your full name and rank please?
806
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,240
Matthew Sheehan,
Inspector of Police.
807
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,480
And as at March,
808
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,800
you held the position with Custody
Management, is that correct?
809
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,160
Yes, that's correct, sir.
810
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,440
And what does that entail?
811
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,680
Well, basically, I'm responsible for
the prisoner's rights,
812
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:14,680
to explain all their rights and to
make sure that anything
813
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,000
that needs to happen
for the prisoner, happens.
814
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,840
You know, I basically look
after him. I'm his carer.
815
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:26,440
Hi, Shaun. I'm Police
Inspector Mathew Sheehan.
816
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,000
I'm a Custody Management Officer.
817
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,920
It's a doughnut.
818
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,680
On the morning that you saw him,
you had some concerns
819
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,640
for his wellbeing, did you not?
820
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,160
Yeah. I've had hundreds
of prisoners in my care before,
821
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,600
and he was acting differently
to what I would expect.
822
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,800
Can you indicate, for a start,
whether he was distressed?
823
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,080
I wouldn't say distressed.
It was more his demeanour,
824
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,000
he was very nervous.
825
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Which is unusual, very unusual,
826
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,680
actually, for a prisoner
to be nervous with me.
827
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400
I tell them I'm not involved
in the investigation.
828
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,160
And, and I also tell them
that I'm not involved
829
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,280
in the decision or charges,
or if there is any charges.
830
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,720
So, I put them at ease
from the start.
831
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,320
It didn't click quite right
in my mind.
832
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,640
I'll come back and check
on you in a minute.
833
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,120
So, that's when I decided to contact
the Mental Health Crisis Team.
834
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,520
And did you also contact an
ambulance, as well,
835
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,760
to come and assess him?
836
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,240
Yes. I...
837
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,240
Yeah, contact the ambulance team is
always the first port of call.
838
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,160
So, what you were concerned
about was to check
839
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,240
whether he was likely to self-harm
is that right?
840
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,080
Yeah, when you boil it
down to it. Yeah.
841
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,240
Thank you, Mr Sheehan.
No further questions.
842
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,680
You formed, based on your experiences
as a police officer,
843
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,440
the opinion that Mr Yang was not
just down in the dumps,
844
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,560
but you thought,
serious enough to call an ambulance
845
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,920
and get the Mental Health Team
into action
846
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,160
and you arranged for them to assess
him.
847
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,760
Yes. I thought it was serious
enough to call them.
848
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,720
You also arranged for him
to have some food at his request,
849
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,000
by the look of things.
850
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,640
Yes.
851
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,400
You had a bit of a chuckle,
to use the word,
852
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,120
that he wanted some bananas
because he liked bananas.
853
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,200
And you went and got him
some bananas?
854
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:39,120
Yes. Bananas
is a very unusual request.
855
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,600
I mean, you know,
like in years in the police,
856
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,200
I don't think a prisoner has ever
asked for bananas before
857
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:46,800
and, I did find that funny.
858
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Normally, it's McDonald's,
isn't it?
859
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,240
Ooh, yeah.
If we're going for a cheapie,
860
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,760
McDonald's is always an option
861
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,240
if we're trying to save
the government some money.
862
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,600
You brought the bananas
back and you monitored him
863
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,840
in the normal situation.
864
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,440
It was basically your last
contact with him?
865
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,680
Yeah. Yeah,
I think that's how it went, yeah.
866
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,840
Your Honour,
I have no more questions.
867
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,480
Mr Crown, do you have any questions
for this witness?
868
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,640
No, Your Honour.
869
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,960
Well, thank you very much
for attending, Mr Sheehan.
870
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,480
You're now free to leave the court.
871
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,800
Well, this type of detective,
872
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,080
actually what gives police
the bad name, right?
873
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,440
Shaun was charged with something
heavy, his partner died,
874
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,040
and he's like, "And yet, me,
I didn't calm him down.
875
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,800
"So, something must be wrong with
him."
876
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,120
Mr Crown, do you have another
witness?
877
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,280
Yes, Your Honour. The Crown calls
Detective Sergeant Harry Adams.
878
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,560
The prosecution's next
witness is the police detective
879
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,520
in charge of investigating
Carlo's death.
880
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,480
Detective, would you state your name
and rank please?
881
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,920
Detective Sergeant Harry Adams.
882
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,640
You ascertain that the accused made
a triple- call on 12 March, 2022
883
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,560
at about 12 or 13-past-nine,
is that right?
884
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,440
That's correct.
885
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,400
The conversation of Mr Yang
is a little, hard to understand,
886
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,760
but the transcript is,
as far as you're concerned,
887
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,280
an accurate statement of
what was said, is that right?
888
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,720
Yes, it is.
889
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,920
Ambulance Emergency, what suburb?
890
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840
OK. I'm having a little bit
of trouble understanding you.
891
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,120
Can you please tell me
what suburb you're in?
892
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,560
We can help you, if you calm down.
893
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,920
I-I-I had a fight with my friend
and my friend is dead.
894
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,040
Is your friend with you, sir?
Is your friend with you?
895
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,040
Yeah.
896
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,560
OK. Can you tell me the address?
Can you give me an address?
897
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,600
Give me the address so I can send
you some help.
898
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,120
Petersham.
899
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,720
Did you say, Petersham?
900
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,480
I'm having trouble hearing you,
can you please repeat the address?
901
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,560
I felt scared for him.
902
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,400
People think in the jury
that he's emotionless,
903
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,120
but I just see the opposite.
904
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,080
And I don't know why. Yeah,
it's kind of weird to explain that,
905
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,320
I-I-I do, I feel sorry for him.
906
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,160
Now, did you attend the custody
area of the Glebe Police Station,
907
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,960
where the accused was seated
inside the interview room?
908
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,760
That's right, yes.
909
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,920
And he was with his nominated
support person, Mr Clifford Reid?
910
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:06,960
He was.
911
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,160
Do you understand
you're under arrest?
912
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,600
He's not dead.
I did not kill or murder him.
913
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,280
No, mate, Carlo's dead.
Can you tell me what happened?
914
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:31,200
I-I don't remember.
915
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,320
We have breakfast.
Carlo argue with me.
916
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,880
He criticise me a lot.
917
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,960
And-and-and then,
918
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,840
and then my head started spinning.
919
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,760
But I don't know,
I don't know what happened.
920
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,880
Look, I don't know. I think he should
have some legal advice
921
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,360
because of the seriousness of the
situation.
922
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,880
He advised Shaun not to participate
in any interview
923
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,560
until he was able
to obtain further legal advice?
924
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:08,840
That's correct.
925
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,800
So, before you proceed,
Mr Crown, as you've just heard,
926
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,320
the accused declined to answer
any questions put to him
927
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:17,960
by Detective Adams.
928
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,160
All people in this country
929
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,200
have the right to refuse
to answer questions put to them
930
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,000
by police officers.
931
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,840
Thank you, Mr Crown.
932
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,760
Thank you, Your Honour,
I've finished.
933
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,000
Do you have any questions
for this witness, Mr Benedetti?
934
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,360
No, Your Honour.
935
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,600
Mr Adams, you're free to leave.
936
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,000
- Yeah.
- Should we move all this to?
937
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,040
That's a good idea.
938
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,920
Go all around,
rather than two groups.
939
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,440
Yeah, that's definitely
a good idea.
940
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,240
Are we allowed to move furniture?
Too late, she's gone.
941
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,560
I was glad to hear
the tape recording.
942
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,600
What about you, what did you think
of the tape recording?
943
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,200
I couldn't-it was not clear.
944
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,400
- He was, he was wailing.
- Wasn't clear?
945
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,480
Crying doesn't mean you're sad
or you're sorry.
946
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,880
It could be he was guilty
and thought by crying over the phone,
947
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,440
he, he wouldn't be accused.
948
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,920
He is on trial for manslaughter.
949
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,200
I don't think it's so black and
white.
950
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:21,640
I think you can be remorseful
but still be guilty.
951
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,840
Do you guys think the police
have treated him, like overall,
952
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,080
the overall evidence,
everything we've heard,
953
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:28,960
do you think the police
have treated him fairly?
954
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,280
- No.
- Basically, in a good way, or not?
955
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,320
No.
956
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,800
It wouldn't surprise me if,
with the police officers
957
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,080
in their brains, racist, racist
elements came into their mind.
958
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,120
And he was treated that way.
959
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,120
He wasn't just Asian,
but he was also a homosexual man.
960
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,640
- Mm.
- Mm, oh I...
961
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,160
The police do not have a good
history, as we know,
962
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,320
with the Mardi Gras' origins.
963
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,360
Yeah, I heard, I heard, that's,
that's in the back of my head.
964
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,680
And that's why I kind of feel like
965
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:48,440
it's this real sort of derogatory
tone.
966
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,600
When I, when I thought of the banana,
do you know what I thought,
967
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,680
he was-he didn't say it directly,
but this is what came into my mind?
968
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:54,400
I thought it too. Don't say, I know
it,
969
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,120
I know exactly what you're thinking,
cos I thought it.
970
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,320
Like he, he was like calling him
"a monkey."
971
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,000
- Yes.
- Like, that's how I viewed that.
972
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,520
That's precisely how I, I read-
that's why he was laughing.
973
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,520
You know, you think you are meant to
trust the police.
974
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,240
In this case, I'm not sure if I do
trust the police.
975
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,480
Just knowing the history
of the police and the gay community,
976
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:10,680
it didn't feel good.
977
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,680
Everybody agrees there was "a fight."
Yeah?
978
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:15,560
Well, that,
that's what he says, right?
979
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,640
- I don't, I don't know.
- He says that there was...
980
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,960
No, we don't agree
there was a fight, no.
No, there was no fight.
981
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,760
Guy, I don't know
whether there was a fight.
982
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,000
No he, he said...
He says, it says "The detective-"
983
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,640
Yeah, but I took "fight"
to be "argument."
984
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,520
Argument. Yeah,
that's the same with me.
985
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,400
So, that when he's in the police
station,
986
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,040
the last sentence he says
there is very interesting.
987
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,240
Police says, "No, Carlo's dead,
can you tell me what happened?"
988
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,360
And he says, "I don't remember,
we had breakfast,
989
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,560
"Carlo argue with me,
he criticises me a lot.
990
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,800
"Then my head started spinning,
but I don't know what happened."
991
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,800
Mm.
992
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,440
So, he's almost had, like,
a mental blank,
993
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,680
where he doesn't remember
what's happened?
994
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:51,440
Like, a blind rage,
or something like that?
995
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,120
You know how people
have those moments?
996
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,760
Yeah.
997
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,920
Yeah-yeah, like that whole thing
of seeing red,
998
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,680
it's happened to me before
999
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,480
where you get extremely, extremely
built ah- riled-up.
1000
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,360
Um, you either say something
or you do something.
1001
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,040
It's usually immediately after,
1002
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,920
you understand that you've messed up.
1003
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,280
And it's that clar- moment of clarity
where, you're like,
1004
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,600
what have I actually just done?
1005
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,720
I had a moment
where that backfired on me.
1006
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,000
And ever since that moment, I've
just, I've never been that person.
1007
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,400
I've, I've kind of kept
that all in check.
1008
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,800
But just because it works for me
doesn't mean it works for everybody.
1009
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,800
But didn't he say,
"I didn't murder him?
1010
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,480
He also clearly says,
"I didn't kill or murder him."
1011
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,600
Yeah.
1012
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,320
"Kill or murder," which is
interesting language as well.
1013
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:38,880
They're both the same thing, no?
1014
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,600
No, they're not.
They're not the same thing.
1015
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,640
You can accidentally kill,
but you can't accidentally murder.
1016
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,720
We were talking about things going
wrong with the blender or whatever.
1017
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,040
Yeah, yeah.
1018
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,120
I mean, there was something
that precipitated the altercation.
1019
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,120
I really want to know how
they actually were with each other.
1020
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,600
Was this just a little blip?
1021
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:54,560
Tiff or-?
1022
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,320
Yeah, and if he was aggressive, what,
what kind of episodes have they had?
1023
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,760
He says it in there, that Carlo was
criticising him a lot that morning.
1024
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,160
I mean, why-what,
what was that about?
1025
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,120
- What was he doing?
- Why, why was he being criticised?
1026
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,720
- y was he being criticised?
- was Carlo just critical?
1027
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,560
See I'm not, not convinced that this
isn't domestic violence yet.
1028
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,920
Clearly, the bloke's emotionally
distraught.
1029
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,960
You know, I mean if, either way,
if he's completely innocent
1030
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,840
- and he's found his lover dead...
- Exactly.
1031
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,280
- He is innocent. That's the thing.
- ..of course, he's gonna lose it.
1032
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,800
- Yeah, that's right, yeah.
- He is innocent.
1033
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,240
- He's sitting there an innocent man.
- Oh, yeah right now, yeah.
1034
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,920
Was it an accident
or was it manslaughter?
1035
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,280
We have no idea
about their character.
1036
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,720
We just know a traumatic event caused
Shaun to absolutely flip out.
1037
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,240
- Bye, guys!
- See you tomorrow.
1038
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,000
I've certainly
changed my opinion from yesterday
1039
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,720
where I was thinking
that it was a matter
1040
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,200
of circumstance and accident.
1041
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,640
Was he pushed to a point?
1042
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,840
I'm focusing on that,
1043
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,600
"he's always critical of me."
1044
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,520
That is an abusive relationship by
nature and it can wear somebody down.
1045
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,400
I know from myself, I had an abusive
boyfriend when I was 17
1046
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,480
and he got an absolute hard on from
trying to belittle me.
1047
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,040
You know, "You are worthless,
you are nothing."
1048
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,320
Then they control you and they abuse
you,
1049
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,480
and-and the relationship is just
so imbalanced, it's not even funny.
1050
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,840
So, how far did Carlo take that?
1051
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:26,440
Next time...
1052
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,000
I want to prove that somebody
killed somebody.
1053
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,640
The first, and only,
witness to the death.
1054
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,680
Have you ever told anyone that Mr
Yang's crying was a temper tantrum?
1055
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,120
- Is that a question?
- Yes!
1056
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,440
But can the testimony be trusted?
1057
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,840
For me, the maths,
the time doesn't add up.
1058
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,000
Half-an-hour is missing.
1059
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,680
And crucial revelations.
1060
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:51,280
We had a fight
and he just kept at me!
1061
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,840
It might not be an attack,
it might be self-defence.
1062
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,640
Somebody's got to be responsible
for Carlo's death.
1063
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,440
Two people, one died,
the other one's still alive.
1064
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,800
The relationship was deteriorating
and he wanted to end it.
1065
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,960
It might get a bit heated later on.
Stay tuned to this station.
86705
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