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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,760 G'day, Shaun. 2 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,080 Do you understand you're under arrest? 3 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,520 He's not dead. I did not kill or murder him. 4 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720 No. Mate, Carlo's dead. 5 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,720 Can you tell me what happened? 6 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,680 When a person is accused of a crime, 7 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,120 it's often the job of a jury to decide their fate. 8 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,760 But do juries always get it right? 9 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,120 To find out, for the first time in Australia, 10 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,040 we're following a jury through a criminal trial. 11 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,040 Shaun Yang did unlawfully kill Carlo Levetto. 12 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,880 With actors restaging a real case, word-for-word. 13 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,080 Where in previous statements have you ever told anyone 14 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,560 that Mr Yang's crying was a temper tantrum? 15 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,040 - Is that a question? - Yes! 16 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,080 But just as in a real court, 17 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,920 the jurors are everyday people. 18 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:44,680 - That was hard to watch, huh? - Blimey! 19 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,880 But there are moments when I do feel sorry for the accused. 20 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,640 I don't know the guy! I have no sympathy. 21 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,640 Very few of us have witnessed the inner workings 22 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,440 of a jury trial. Until now. 23 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,040 Everybody agrees there was a fight? 24 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,840 No, we don't agree there was a fight. 25 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,120 I took "fight" to be "argument." 26 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,480 Argument. 27 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:03,800 We'll follow 12 jurors 28 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,280 as they work to decipher a baffling criminal trial. 29 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,000 One, two... Down! 30 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,840 They must deliberate on the evidence... 31 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,360 In his anger, he tried, and grabbed him around the throat 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:17,560 just to finish him off. 33 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,400 And agree unanimously on a verdict. 34 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,000 And you're saying, "No, it can't be Shaun, it can't be Shaun!" 35 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Well, who else was it then? 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960 Will the jury convict an innocent man? 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,400 Hang on, he's supposed to convince us, right? 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,600 Or will they free one who is guilty? 39 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,080 I'm very unlikely to change my mind. 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,160 Ohhh! 41 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,880 The jurors reveal their strengths, 42 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:39,400 and their prejudices. 43 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,440 I totally recognise that I do have a bias. 44 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,920 I only had one opinion of criminals and they're guilty. 45 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,440 They're all liars. 46 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,520 I think it's such a big responsibility. 47 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,240 It's essentially deciding the fate of someone's life. 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,920 Will our 12 jurors arrive at the same verdict as the original trial? 49 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,880 And if it doesn't, I wonder what that means for the real Shaun? 50 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,840 As they face a decision that will shock to the core. 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,200 How say you? 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,680 Is the accused guilty or not guilty? 53 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,520 I solemnly and sincerely... 54 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,560 Declare and affirm... 55 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,360 - That I will give... - A true verdict... 56 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,040 According to the evidence. 57 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,440 A recent study has revealed only 30% of Australians 58 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,440 have faith in the country's justice system. 59 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,320 So, we're putting it to the test 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,320 by re-enacting a real manslaughter case. 61 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,360 All rise. 62 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Using actors in the courtroom... 63 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,240 And 12 everyday Australians listening to every word. 64 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:05,800 It's a rare insight for us to observe a group of citizens 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,960 with a real case, with real transcripts, 66 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,280 go through that deliberation process. 67 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,480 - It is a great opportunity to see how the process works. 68 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,280 One thing that I've learnt over my life experience 69 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,160 is not to speculate about what the jury might be going to do. 70 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,880 There's just no way of reading a jury. 71 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,160 I'm a massive Judge Judy fan to be, to be completely honest. 72 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,360 I've been called up to jury duty 73 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,280 a couple of times where I haven't been able to do it 74 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,640 because of my studies. 75 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,440 And this was the time. I thought, well, why not? 76 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,760 I probably a little bit more biased towards not guilty. 77 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,000 Because nobody has been actually improved by being in prison, right? 78 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,640 And jump, go, go, go, go, go, go! 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,240 I'm a bit of an activist. 80 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:59,600 So, if there's wrongs in the world, 81 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,280 I will happily go on social media and people will defriend me. 82 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,080 Come, Digs! Come! C'mon! 83 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,960 But I don't care. 84 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,760 It is a big responsibility. 85 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,240 I'm either going to come out at the end of it and go, 86 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:15,520 "Yeah, you know what? This system is the best system." 87 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,360 Or, "This is terrible, I'm not going to commit a crime." 88 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:23,680 The restaged trial will take place over eight days 89 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,360 in this former courthouse in Sydney. 90 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,680 Depending on the case, it can be terribly emotional. 91 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,360 Hence the need to say to the jury, "Put aside sympathy, 92 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,720 "put aside prejudice, be objective, be judicial in your function." 93 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,600 Nice! Oh, this is so lovely! 94 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,640 Oh, wow. 95 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,040 It's so bright and light! 96 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,320 So, this is where we're gonna hang out for the next week or so... ? 97 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,720 Better not drink too much, 98 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,560 'cause I'll be wanting a piss break every half-an-hour. 99 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,680 The older you get, the harder it is to hold it in! 100 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,600 True. True. Have you had your prostate checked? 101 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:03,840 Nah, oh, yeah. 102 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,000 I've always wanted to be a juror. 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,680 It is something where you can make a small impact 104 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,920 of perhaps righting a wrong. 105 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,120 The jurors' first task is to choose a foreperson, 106 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,680 whose job it will be to communicate with the judge, 107 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,320 and ultimately deliver the verdict. 108 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,440 So, does anybody want to be foreperson? 109 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,000 It looks like we have an enthusiastic contender. 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,040 Yes! 111 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,040 I'm, I'm voting for that. 112 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,920 OK, great 'cause I didn't want this to be a bribe. 113 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,560 But I brought everyone an emotional support potato. 114 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,120 I hope I don't come across too strong 115 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,680 and that I may offend somebody just by being a forceful person. 116 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,760 You know, a big personality. 117 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,760 Sometimes my mouth goes faster than my brain. 118 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,120 - So, are you the foreman? - I think so. 119 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:55,680 - Oh, OK. - Did you want to be foreperson? 120 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:56,960 - No! - OK. 121 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,120 Has anyone done jury service before? 122 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,280 - No. - No. 123 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,160 Never. 124 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,920 I love all your tattoos, they're amazing. 125 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,640 My mother's not happy with it. 126 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,560 My son wanted me to get a tattoo. 127 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,560 - Oh, really? - Yeah. 128 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,560 - And why didn't you? - I don't like pain! 129 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,120 Yeah! 130 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,240 I'm very thin. And I'm covered in tattoos. 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,240 And usually, especially to older generations, 132 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,720 that can kind of influence somebody 133 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,680 to assume that I'm somebody that I'm not. 134 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,600 - Guy, what was your number? - Three. 135 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,040 - You're three. - Who's one? 136 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,320 I'm one. 137 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,880 When they gave you your number, were you just like, "Yes?" 138 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,160 Well, that's what my name means, so it feels right. 139 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,400 Oh, does it? 140 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,040 - It feels correct! - Oh, there you go. 141 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,000 - What is your name? - Tahi. 142 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,640 - What's that, Hawaiian? - In what language? 143 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,040 - Maori. - Maori. 144 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,240 - Right. - How cute! 145 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,000 Are you ethnically Maori, a little bit, no? 146 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,320 - My dad. Yeah. - Uh huh. 147 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,440 It's interesting to put the fate of someone in the hands of people 148 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,000 that, don't really know what they're doing. 149 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,800 So, we do need to pick a foreperson. 150 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,840 - Yes. - And have we done that? 151 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,560 - Yep. - No. Oh, have we? 152 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,120 - I mean I just... - Unless someone else wants to? 153 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,680 - Yes! - That's what they wanted us to do. 154 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,600 Yeah, absolutely. I-I thought, I thought it was done, 155 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,800 but that's... if anybody else wants to be a foreperson? 156 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,200 I think I'm really good at being in charge. Just taking over. 157 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,400 - So, you've put yourself up? - Yes. 158 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,960 Does anyone else want to be juror... 159 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,240 I was just gonna say, before I wasn't thinking I was gonna do this, right? 160 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,040 But then I was thinking about what my career has been and the experience 161 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,120 of sort of putting together groups of people from different cultures 162 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,600 and countries, as a creative director. 163 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,040 And making sure that everyone's point of view is heard 164 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,280 and keeping the team working. 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,440 I've just had that kind of experience. So... 166 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:41,480 Yep. 167 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,560 I just, ah, that's my pitch. 168 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,640 I occasionally tell people I'm a member of Mensa, 169 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:48,520 which surprises a few people. 170 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:52,560 I have an IQ that's in the top point-five percentile. 171 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,160 I did the test for Australia Mensa 172 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,640 and surprised myself and got in. 173 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,640 So, it's something I tell some people. 174 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,520 Now I've told way too many people. 175 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:05,920 Shall we do a secret ballot 176 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,080 and I'll just give everyone a little bit of paper and if...? 177 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,320 - Sure! - That'll do. 178 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,600 That's a great suggestion. 179 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,040 Alright. 180 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,320 So, it's Mish and Guy. 181 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,640 It's M-I-S-H. 182 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,640 - What's your history? - Yeah. 183 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:28,480 Yeah, I'm an ex-prison officer. 184 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,320 - Oh, really? - Oh, wow! OK. 185 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,560 Yeah. 186 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,320 When I was a prison officer, 187 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,480 I wasn't really interested in why they got caught 188 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,080 or why they were in jail. 189 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,920 To me, they were just guilty and liars. 190 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,000 Ah, why did you get out of it then? 191 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,360 - I didn't like it. - Yeah? 192 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,680 Yeah. I didn't care about the threats for myself. 193 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:47,920 You had a family, of course. 194 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,120 But when they start threatening my family and all that, it was like, 195 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,640 - no, time to get out. - Yeah. 196 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,520 Fuckin' hell! Are you joking? 197 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,040 No, serious. Yeah. 198 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,000 - So, do we have a result? - We're a hung jury! 199 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,440 Oh, stop it, that's hilarious! No so, I'm happy to give it to Guy. 200 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,960 I have no problem giving it to Guy. 201 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,760 Well, congratulations, Guy. 202 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,520 No, it's... 203 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,440 Curses to Guy! 204 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,160 It was in the bag for me! 205 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,880 Hello. Jury, thank you for being here today. 206 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,840 We're ready to proceed into court. 207 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,760 So, if you could please jump into your numbers 208 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,520 and bring your notebooks with you, if you wish. 209 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,560 Alright, please follow me. 210 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,160 The trial will run for eight days. 211 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,280 And the jurors have no idea which case they're about to judge. 212 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,120 I'm very curious about that. 213 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,280 Oh, I can't wait to find out. It's like a box of chocolates, isn't it? 214 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,320 Because I don't know what the case is going to be like. 215 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,160 Well, I've never been in a court before today. 216 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,640 It immediately becomes so formal and serious, it's like, "Oh, gosh, 217 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,600 "no we're really doing this." 218 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:14,240 The jury, Your Honour. 219 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,720 Good morning, jury. 220 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,120 All names, dates, locations and images have been changed 221 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,840 to protect identities from the original trial. 222 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,080 Serving on a jury may be a completely new experience 223 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,720 for some, if not all of you. 224 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,920 It is therefore appropriate for me 225 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,960 to explain a number of matters to you. 226 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,600 The accused person is presumed innocent 227 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,680 unless and until the Prosecution proves he is guilty. 228 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,560 And that onus requires the Prosecution to satisfy you 229 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,760 beyond reasonable doubt that the charge has been proved. 230 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Mr North. 231 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,960 I present an indictment. 232 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,440 On 12 March, 2022, Shaun Yang did unlawfully kill Carlo Levetto. 233 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,920 The defendant pleads not guilty. 234 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,840 The ultimate question for these jurors, 235 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,080 is whether the defendant, Shaun Yang, 236 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,320 is guilty of the manslaughter of his partner Carlo Levetto. 237 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,280 Now, this trial will concentrate 238 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,920 on this death being caused by the accused. 239 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520 What the Prosecution have to prove in a manslaughter case, 240 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:38,560 is that the accused voluntarily did a dangerous and unlawful act, 241 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,320 and any reasonable person in the shoes of the defendant, 242 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,960 would have known that what they were doing was likely 243 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,200 to have caused serious injury or death to the victim. 244 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,440 The Prosecution does not have to prove 245 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,680 the precise cause of death, 246 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,760 but it has to prove that it was the accused that caused this death. 247 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,320 That is what this trial will concentrate on. 248 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,240 The deceased, Carlo Levetto, was about 65 249 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,240 and Shaun, the accused, was about 20 years younger. 250 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,040 He'd been in a homosexual, domestic relationship with the accused 251 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,640 for about four years. 252 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,040 They'd been having a few arguments and fights 253 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,120 leading up to 12 March, 2022 254 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,960 and on that day the Crown will allege they had a fight. 255 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,240 I am sick and tired... 256 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520 We weren't there, we cannot say what the argument was about. 257 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:44,400 There are no witnesses who heard the actual content of the argument. 258 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,240 As a result of that fight, 259 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,440 the deceased sustained injuries to his chin, to his neck, 260 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,640 to his chest and to the back and side of this head, 261 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,640 and as a result of those injuries, 262 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,080 he died at the premises in Petersham. 263 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,880 The evidence that will be called 264 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,640 will go towards those events and facts. 265 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,800 Thank you, Mr Crown. 266 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,520 It's interesting where we're seated, 267 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,040 and you can kind of just see the defendant right across. 268 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,560 It's an intense atmosphere, I think. 269 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,920 It was nerve-racking to start off with, that's for sure. 270 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,840 So, once all the information started flowing in, 271 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,320 now I'm kind of addicted. 272 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,760 Shaun Yang's defence barrister 273 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,080 sets out the case for his client's innocence. 274 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,280 Members of the jury. 275 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,240 A great deal of what is going to happen in this case 276 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,640 will not be in dispute. 277 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,960 There has not been any issue that the deceased man has passed away 278 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,560 or that he was in a relationship with the accused. 279 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,280 The medical evidence, though, is of fundamental importance. 280 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,440 The forensic pathologists will not be able to tell you 281 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:52,960 what blow killed the deceased. 282 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,400 They will not be able to tell you what happened. 283 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,200 They will not be able to tell you, from the injuries that you will see, 284 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,400 from the photographs taken of the deceased, after his death, 285 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,320 obviously, killed him, 286 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,560 because none of those injuries, were life threatening. 287 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,120 None of them. 288 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,160 You will hear evidence of what happens 289 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,840 when a person falls down the stairs and hits their head. 290 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,680 You will see the premises where the staircase is. 291 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:23,920 You will hear that the staircase 292 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,840 does not comply with appropriate standards of building. 293 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,080 You will hear about DNA. 294 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,200 And you will hear about blood. 295 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,640 When you listen to the scientists, and the doctors, 296 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,920 please listen very, very carefully 297 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,400 as to what they are actually saying they have recovered or found. 298 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,320 Thank you. 299 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,600 Thank you, Mr Benedetti. 300 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,160 Well, jury, now is a good time for a short break. Thank you. 301 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,040 If the jury find Shaun guilty of manslaughter, 302 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,440 he faces up to 25 years in prison. 303 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,120 If found not guilty, he walks free. 304 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,280 I was surprised of the seriousness of the crime. 305 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,760 I wasn't expecting it to be as brutal as it is. 306 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,280 So, we've got three folders. All of them are identical 307 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,040 if anyone wants to... 308 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,240 It's all fascinating, that's for sure. 309 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,480 I'm wracking my brain like, ooh. 310 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,080 In keeping with a real trial, 311 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,040 jurors can discuss the case when they're together 312 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,360 and no-one else is present. 313 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,240 I'm amazed at Shaun, though. 314 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Like, he's just sitting there. 315 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,960 Like, if that was me and people were saying stuff about me, 316 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,880 I know you can't talk, but I'd be like going like... 317 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,320 He just keeps one face! 318 00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:11,760 I felt like he was emotionless. 319 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,720 But culturally, Chinese can be very poker-faced. 320 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,600 I wanna know where they met. 321 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,480 Like if that, maybe no one else agrees with me, 322 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,640 I think that's important. 323 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,720 I feel like some of the jurors are kind of jumping to conclusions 324 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,640 based on, both his sexuality and his ethnicity. 325 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,000 Like, I want to know if it was a dating app, actually. 326 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:36,360 How would your chain of thought change if it was, on a dating app, 327 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,800 instead of meeting in a bar? 328 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,360 Because that would vibe me into what Carlos was looking for in a man 329 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,560 and the type he wanted to date. 330 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,560 And why does he want a younger man? 331 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,040 It could be multiple reasons why he wants a younger man. 332 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,320 I just find that interesting, the age gap. 333 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,280 20 years is lot, it's a big age difference. 334 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,960 Different culture, different nationalities. 335 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,400 It'll take a lot of understanding and commitment 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,840 to keep a relationship like that happy. 337 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Lots of stuff coming in which it seems like, 338 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,000 is it actually relevant, or we just- why are we talking about this? 339 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:20,240 As soon as, as they said the guy's in a "homosexual relationship," 340 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,040 it was like, ah, not guilty. 341 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,680 Like, from that moment on, 342 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,480 I was just on a mission to defend one of my own kind, right? 343 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,840 And yet, we still don't know the actual cause of death. 344 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,160 It drives me nuts. 345 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,800 Hello, everybody. We're ready to start moving to the court. 346 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,720 If I can get you to line up for me, please? 347 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,480 I think it's good that it's such a mixed bag of people. 348 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,080 Because I think if you put like all university-educated, quote, 349 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,520 unquote, "woke" people in there, it might have a different outcome. 350 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:53,640 When you've got 12 people 351 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,200 who are obviously coming from very different backgrounds. 352 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,440 Completely random. 353 00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,720 That in itself is really scary. 354 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,480 You know, I mean, if I was going to appear in a court 355 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,720 and I was going to be judged by 12 people, 356 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,520 if I got those 12 bigots that voted in a certain way 357 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,000 in certain elections around the world, or decisions, you know, 358 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,240 I'd be terrified. 359 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,600 In a New South Wales courtroom, 360 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,280 a manslaughter trial is being restaged with actors, 361 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,440 using the transcripts and testimonies from a real case. 362 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,960 A new jury of 12 ordinary Australians 363 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,400 must decide if Shaun Yang is guilty of manslaughter. 364 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,840 Ladies and gentlemen, the Crown will now call his first witness. 365 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,920 The Crown calls Greg Bennett. 366 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,080 Having the power to convict somebody is, 367 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,080 it's a huge responsibility. 368 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,040 Someone's life is hanging in the balance. 369 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,440 Detective, would you state your name, rank, and station, thanks? 370 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,480 Ah, Detective Leading Senior Constable Greg Bennett 371 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,960 from the Parramatta Crime Scene section. 372 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,680 And in relation to this case, you were the Crime Scene Examiner 373 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,160 and Officer in Charge, were you not? 374 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,680 Yes, I was. 375 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,600 Now, in relation to the deceased, 376 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,120 he was located at the base of the internal stairs, 377 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,560 covered in a sheet. 378 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,880 Those stairs were located at the end of the kitchen 379 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,040 and effectively in the dining room? 380 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,480 Yes. 381 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,600 The deceased was lying on his back, 382 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,280 with his head facing the west and his feet to the east. Correct? 383 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,320 Yes. 384 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,520 And did you see a laceration to the deceased's right chin area? 385 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,560 Yes, I did. 386 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,920 So, the next group of photographs, five-to-nine, they show, 387 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,600 do they not, these various views 388 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,080 of the deceased's location and also some of the blood staining? 389 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,440 Yes. 390 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,480 I can't work Shaun out. He has that one expression. 391 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,760 I mean, even when they were showing his partner's body and that, 392 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,480 he never once turned around to have a look. 393 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,160 Any normal person would want to look. 394 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,960 I don't know, he's very self-controlled. 395 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,000 In the kitchen of the premises, I saw a disassembled fruit juicer 396 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,320 and some items that appeared to have been washed up. 397 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,320 I then looked in the small compost bin 398 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,840 and saw what appeared to be carrot pulp. 399 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,960 Also on the bench, some leftover carrot juice in a jug and a glass. 400 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,920 On the other side, I saw a small-handled scrubbing brush 401 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,200 and two yellow sponges, one of which was in the sink. 402 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,560 On the floor, I saw what appeared to be fragments 403 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,680 of a beam above the dining table. 404 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,200 I saw an area on the beam 405 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,600 where a portion of the structure had cracked and broken. 406 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,840 There was orange-coloured staining near the damage 407 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,800 that appeared to be carrot pulp. 408 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,000 And then that's a close view of that damage, 409 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,680 which also shows some of the carrot pulp stain, correct? 410 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,160 Yes. 411 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,400 I examined a silver-coloured metal object on the floor 412 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,600 near the deceased's feet. 413 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,040 I saw that this appeared to be a component of the fruit juicer. 414 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,200 This item had a large amount of blood smear. 415 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,040 There was nothing on the floor underneath the item. 416 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800 OK. Can we please bring our Exhibit C, 417 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,680 the metal bowl of the juicer found at the crime scene, 418 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,360 which has already been tendered? 419 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,720 It's a strange feeling to have something passed to you, 420 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,880 that might have resulted in someone's death. 421 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,000 It was bigger and a bit heavier than I expected it to be, 422 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,440 and I think, it could be used as a weapon. Yeah. 423 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,240 The back of the deceased's hand shows injuries, does it not? 424 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,480 Yes, it does. 425 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,360 So, those injuries appear to be to the knuckle area? 426 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,560 Towards the knuckle, yes. 427 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,800 So, have a look at photograph 31. 428 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,520 That's a view, is it not, of injuries on the deceased's chest. 429 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,120 - Is that right? - Yes. 430 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,840 Those injuries, as you saw them, are you able to describe them? 431 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,280 I described them at the time as "scratches and surface bruising." 432 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,200 And the blood staining consisted of fine splatters of blood 433 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,680 on the rug on either side of the victim's head 434 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,080 and northern side of the rug, a smudge on the wall 435 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,600 and a smudge on the handrail of the stairs. 436 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,360 - Correct? - Yes. 437 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,280 And 43 shows the staining with the scales more visible? 438 00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,840 Yes. 439 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,480 Thank you, Mr Bennett, I have no further questions. 440 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,920 The court breaks after more than two hours 441 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,280 of detailed prosecution evidence. 442 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,200 I'm like, maybe this is a dumb question, but I was like, 443 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,360 are they trying to say that the juicer caused injury to kill him? 444 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,400 I don't know. 445 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,960 Or are they saying that they're not... 446 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,760 The juicer is just this element that I can't get my head around. 447 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,120 But, you know, I once had a machine go rogue on me. 448 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,160 It was a Mixmaster, and all of a sudden, 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,320 the machine started to, like, smoke, and the bowl started, like, 450 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,640 wobbling and swinging and stuff. 451 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,760 There's definitely a group of people that are speculators. 452 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,560 So, when I saw the bowl there, I'm like, "Yeah, it could, like, 453 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,840 "kill, I s'pose." 454 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,480 Borderline conspiracy theorists. 455 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,880 Are we thinking aliens? No? 456 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,560 There's a set of people that are very deliberate in not being that. 457 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,200 There was a combination of injuries. 458 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,320 There isn't one thing that kills him. So, it's the causation. 459 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:06,960 'Cause I think that's why I think it's manslaughter, 460 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,240 rather than murder. 461 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,680 I haven't got a picture as to what happened 462 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,360 and I don't know whether we ever will. 463 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,640 Unless he takes the stand, but then he won't remember, he's too... 464 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,080 I'd love to, I don't think we're going to, 465 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,200 but I would love to hear the accused speak. 466 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,280 Mish and Mon have got some strong views and they're very curious 467 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,800 about what might have happened. 468 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,800 That's a lot of blood, but that's not a fatal amount of blood. 469 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,200 So, is it possible that the accused picked up part of the juicer 470 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,000 and kind of attacked him with it. Is that possible? 471 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,920 Or, he could have fallen onto the blade. 472 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,160 Yeah, he could have. 473 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,640 'Cause of like a heart attack. Bang! 474 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,240 Hits him in there and it's, and then it's flipped up? 475 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,160 - Ahhh, that's a good theory. - And then it's flipped up. 476 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,680 But then why is he so far away? 477 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,120 Like, he's at the bottom of the stairs. 478 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,800 It's like a big jigsaw and we're sort of being fed pieces. 479 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,000 The blood on the handrail seems really odd. 480 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,640 And we're starting to get some of the edges, but not all of them yet. 481 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,480 If he'd fallen down, wouldn't it be... 482 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,960 For me, it looked like a thumb print and he's grabbed the rail 483 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,480 on the way down. 484 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,840 But, juicing, hit, heart attack. 485 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,920 - Juicer, hit. - Fall. 486 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,160 - Yes. - That's it. 487 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,920 I think he struggled to get Shaun's attention maybe, 488 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,000 to go, to walk up the stairs and then he's actually fallen... 489 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,560 Ohh. Yep. 490 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,880 There are a lot of dominating voices jumping to conclusions. 491 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,840 The machine went rogue, ricocheted, hit him in the chin. 492 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,440 He goes to go upstairs, has a heart attack, 493 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,440 falls back down the stairs. Boom! 494 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,240 The more I hear these conclusions that have no, yeah, basis, 495 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840 the more I get frustrated. 496 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,480 Yeah, I think we've, I think we've nailed it. 497 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,480 Yep. We've solved this. 498 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,640 Not guilty. Let's get outta here. 499 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,480 Some pretty wild theories buzzing around in there. 500 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,760 You should be crime writers, you lot. 501 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,400 Good afternoon, everybody. Day one of court session 502 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,400 is completely finished for the day. Once you leave this jury room, 503 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,320 there is to be no discussing the court case with anybody. 504 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,840 We wish you safe travels home, we will see you tomorrow. 505 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,720 See you tomorrow, guys. 506 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,800 See ya. Thanks for the potato. 507 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,720 That's my pleasure! 508 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,760 A few in there I think are off with the fairies. 509 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,320 I think they're having problems grasping the idea 510 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,120 that we're just to deal with the facts. 511 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,880 You know, all these what-ifs and maybes and... 512 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920 Oh, it drives me crazy. 513 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,920 How other people would describe me? Um, probably a cranky old fart. 514 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,520 When I was growing up, 515 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800 my punishment was the belt across a bare arse. 516 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520 Yeah, for me, that punishment works. 517 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,440 It sort of teaches you respect or teaches you from right and wrong. 518 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080 I tried to go for the police force, 519 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,560 but you had to be six-foot-tall back in the day, 520 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,160 so I was about two inches too small. 521 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000 So, I joined up in the prisons. 522 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,920 And being a prison officer, I've seen it all. 523 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,440 I can't tell you how many people I found hanging in their cell. 524 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,520 Some of them I've managed to save, but some didn't. 525 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,760 Lots of riots and fights. I've had, you know, 526 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,200 criminals put biros straight through the eyes of other crims. 527 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,760 Their ears have been cut off. 528 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,720 One bloke up in Long Bay cut his own...his old fella off. 529 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,920 I was stabbed meself in the riots up there. I hated it. 530 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,120 Worst time of my life. 531 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,960 I don't know why I spent 14 years there, to be honest. 532 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,000 I wasn't a very nice person, especially to criminals. 533 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,000 I sort of never took the time 534 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,520 to individually find out what they're about. 535 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,320 Just didn't care, to be honest. 536 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,840 I was just there to lock 'em up. 537 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,320 Yeah, it wasn't too bad. 538 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,360 You sort of...you start to get to know all the rest of the jurors and, 539 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,920 yeah, who's who in the zoo, sort of thing. 540 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,600 Since I left the prisons, I've tried to turn myself around 541 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,840 and not judge everybody as a whole, 542 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,640 but try to judge everybody individually. 543 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,080 Now I'd like to sit down 544 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,920 and actually see what's going on inside their head, 545 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,920 why they've done what they've done. So, yeah. 546 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,080 They have quiet parts inside the courtroom, 547 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,840 like you could hear a pin drop. 548 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,040 So many times, I just felt like fartin' you know, just to, 549 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,320 break up the seriousness of it 550 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,520 and vibrate along the bench. 551 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,400 I'm intrigued to find out 552 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,720 how this whole process works from start to finish. 553 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,920 It's going to be fascinating. I can't wait. 554 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000 Hopefully, all the juicy stuff comes tomorrow. 555 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,360 It's day two of the manslaughter trial. 556 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,240 Overnight, the jurors have been reflecting 557 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,160 on what they've seen and heard. 558 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,400 Last night, I couldn't sleep for thinking about it. 559 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,040 I thought I would crash. I was emotionally exhausted 560 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,680 by the end of the day. 561 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,320 But I just laid there rethinking things, 562 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,360 and, and there are certain things 563 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,800 that I want to get to the bottom of today. 564 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,480 Thank you. 565 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,040 - Thank you. - You're welcome. 566 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,400 Yeah, we get first choice at the food. Gotta be happy about that. 567 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,840 Yeah, let's just lock, can we lock the door from inside? 568 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,600 I think we're a great bunch. We're all very different. 569 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,040 Craig is a ex-prison officer. 570 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,600 Harrish is a finance guy, works for a start-up company. 571 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640 Mon is a funeral home director. 572 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,200 - Morning, guys. - Guy is in advertising. 573 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,680 - Morning. - Morning. 574 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,360 Audrey is a problem solver. That's all she told me. 575 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,960 She's was quite coy. 576 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000 - Day two. - Yes. 577 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,360 What do you want to know? 578 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,160 Well, I don't know what there is to know. 579 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,440 Tahi is a music graduate. 580 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,680 Van, I don't exactly know his title, 581 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,840 but I know that he's in entertainment. 582 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,000 Kathy worked in a firm, I don't exactly know what industry. 583 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,120 Do you need to do some yoga? 584 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,680 Never did yoga. 585 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,320 - We can do it together, Rose. - Yeah. 586 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,600 I feel like Rose is me, but just a few years older. 587 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,120 How's your digestion going? 588 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,920 Good. 589 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,680 And Anya. I'm not sure about Anya. 590 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,840 I'm a sexologist and sex therapist and relationship therapist. 591 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,760 If anybody on the jury need any advice on sex, 592 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,880 or intimacy of any kind, 593 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,120 I will be totally there for it. 594 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,000 What do you do, Michael? 595 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,000 I'm a yoga...I'm a yoga guy. 596 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,920 You're so confident! 597 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,560 - My hips are good. - That's all we need to know. 598 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,600 They're loose. 599 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,600 Do you have, like, arthritis, a condition, or something? 600 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,000 - I've got arthritis, yeah. - Oh. 601 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,200 That's why I stretch. It starts in my hips. 602 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,160 It's actually ankylosing spondylitis. 603 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600 - My son's got it. - Oh, really? 604 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:23,640 And my husband had it. 605 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,080 - Oh, really? - Oh, really? 606 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,200 Your husband had it? 607 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,600 - There's not many people that... - So, he doesn't have it anymore? 608 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,200 - He died. - Oh, I'm sorry! 609 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,640 Oh, I'm sorry. 610 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,520 It doesn't matter where you grew up, or what you look like, 611 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,000 we've all banded together. 612 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,080 'Cause you're so young, I didn't, didn't think of that. 613 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,960 Keep digging, just put the shovel down already, 614 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,880 put the shovel down. 615 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,280 The fact that we've kind of gelled so quickly, is, is a good thing. 616 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,000 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry! I'm not paying attention. 617 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,200 I'm very excited to see some evidence. 618 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,080 I will hold detail in my head. 619 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,160 I will be that elephant that's 100 years old. 620 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:20,320 I need more evidence to see if it's an accident or actual crime. 621 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,640 The jury, Your Honour. 622 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,080 Good morning, jury. 623 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,040 The Crown will now call their second witness. 624 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,240 The Crown calls Alistair Lewis. 625 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,240 The prosecution calls the first responders 626 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,680 who witnessed Shaun's behaviour when Carlo hovered between life and death. 627 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,320 So, on Saturday March, you commenced your shift at. 8:00a.m? 628 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,240 Yes. 629 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,480 About. 9:00a.m. You received a call for a job in Petersham, correct? 630 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Yes. 631 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,120 A man had called the ambulance and hung-up crying, is that right? 632 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,800 Ah, that's-that's correct. 633 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,960 As you got out of your car, 634 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,760 did you see a man standing outside the house, 635 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,400 you didn't know his name, 636 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,640 he was a European man aged in his late fifties or sixties? 637 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,000 Ah, that's correct. 638 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,640 What did you see when you walked inside? 639 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,680 I saw a man sitting at the bottom of the stairs, 640 00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:32,680 an Asian man aged in his early-to- mid-forties. 641 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:34,320 He was, he was a small man. 642 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,480 And can you tell us what the Asian man was doing when you entered? 643 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Ah, he had a pillow on his lap. 644 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,400 There was another man, 645 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,560 who I assumed was the patient. 646 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,800 Do you think the Asian man registered that you were there 647 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:49,920 to treat the patient? 648 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,600 Um, he was crying, really loudly. 649 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,800 Wailing, screaming. 650 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,480 And he was making so much noise 651 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,480 that it was quite hard for my colleague and I to hear each other. 652 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,000 So, he definitely couldn't hear us. 653 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,760 And what did you observe regarding the patient? 654 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,240 He, he was an older man. He looked European. 655 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,120 He was also cold to the touch and pale in perfusion. 656 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,360 Alex turned the defibrillator machine on 657 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,040 and we started a cardiac arrest response. 658 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,000 And I understand it's around that moment that the police arrived? 659 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,360 Yes. 660 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,240 Police! 661 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,560 Did you see two ambulance officers around an older male 662 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,200 that you now know to be Carlo Levetto? 663 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,240 Yes, I did. 664 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,640 Hey, mate, mate make him stay back there. 665 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,560 - Hey! - Stay back there! 666 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,400 By this time, Yang was hysterical and crying, correct? 667 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,000 Correct. 668 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,000 Right, and did you then look for anything that might reveal 669 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,000 the names of both men? 670 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,720 Ah, yes I searched the premises 671 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,320 for anything that could identify the deceased, Levetto. 672 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,720 I went to the bathroom 673 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,840 and I collected a prescription in the name of Carlo Levetto. 674 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,920 The prescription was for blood pressure 675 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,680 and that the other two were for sleep disorders. 676 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,240 Alex checked the heart monitor again and said, "It's asystole," 677 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,280 which means that there's no activity in the heart. 678 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640 Ah, so, I set up a bag-mask ventilator 679 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,480 and put in a Guedel's Airway, 680 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,360 which is a tube to stop the tongue falling back 681 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,640 and to keep the airway clear. 682 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,120 Oh, hey mate. Can you come over and take over compressions for me? 683 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,680 Yep, what do you want me to do? 684 00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:38,040 And you're trained to perform these, are you not, by the police? 685 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,840 Yes. 686 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,920 Did you notice any specific injuries on Mr Levetto? 687 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,280 Ah, yes, I noticed that Levetto had a laceration on his chin. 688 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,960 Does that show the laceration you're referring to? 689 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,640 Ah, yes. Yes, it does. 690 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,800 Five, four, three, two, one. OK, great. 691 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,320 So, we're going to dump that shock. 692 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,400 He's gone. 693 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,880 At this stage, Yang was going berserk. 694 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,240 I mean, that is to say, that he was struggling with the other officer. 695 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,280 - Steve. - Hey, hey. Hey stay here. 696 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160 The man became increasingly difficult to control 697 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,120 and we took him outside to try and calm him down. 698 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,320 He was really agitated. 699 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,000 He tried to break free of Constable Reynolds's grip. 700 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,320 I got my handcuffs out and handcuffed him, 701 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,760 so he couldn't hurt himself or anyone else. 702 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,840 And then we escorted him to the police car. 703 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,760 And I understand your colleague tried to talk to him 704 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,040 about what had happened? 705 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080 You do not need to say or do anything if you do not wish to do so. 706 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,160 However, anything you do or say may be recorded 707 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,280 and that recording may be used in court, do you understand that? 708 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,320 It, it's too late. I need my medication. 709 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,360 OK, what's your medication for? 710 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,520 Depression. 711 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,040 OK. Hey what happened this morning? 712 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,400 We, we had a fight. 713 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,440 OK Shaun, what was the fight about? 714 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,640 I need my medication. I need my... 715 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,920 And that's all he said. 716 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,400 Thank you, I have no further questions. 717 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,600 It's very confronting to see some of the evidence. 718 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,160 And to actually be living it minute-by-minute 719 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,080 can be quite unsettling in a way. 720 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,320 The defence barrister now has an opportunity 721 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,360 to cross-examine the prosecution witness. 722 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,960 He's working to challenge the value and veracity of the evidence. 723 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,000 Did you see if any of the police did any of the compressions 724 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,440 to try and resuscitate the deceased? 725 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,480 Ah, yes. So, there was one police officer 726 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,360 who assisted us with the resuscitations. 727 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,800 In terms of compressions, one hand over the wrist, 728 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,240 the compressions are quite hard at times, aren't they? 729 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,600 Yes. 730 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,760 And you're well aware that at least on some occasions, 731 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,480 it breaks the person's ribs? 732 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,560 Yes. 733 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,240 And it causes bruising? 734 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,880 I suppose so, yes. 735 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,520 The only injury you noticed was the injury to the chin. 736 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,760 It was on the right-hand side, basically? 737 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,920 Yes. 738 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,960 And did you notice a part of the juicer 739 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,840 that was in close proximity to where the deceased lay? 740 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,680 I noticed a pot. But I wasn't sure what that, what it was. 741 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:02,200 Mr Yang is on the floor and he's thrashing about 742 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,520 and your colleague it trying to cover him. 743 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,800 Yes. 744 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,880 It was your word, you actually used the word "berserk." 745 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,880 I -yeah, yes, yes I did. 746 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,160 And two police officers eventually handcuff him. 747 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,880 But it wasn't an instantaneous action, was it? 748 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,320 He wasn't voluntarily being cuffed? 749 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,000 Ah, no, there was a, a scuffle for a short period 750 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,720 of time, I believe, yes. 751 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,920 Thank you, Officer Reynolds. No further questions from the Defence. 752 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,960 Mr Crown, any further questions? 753 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000 No, Your Honour. 754 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,520 How is everyone feeling? 755 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,840 - Hungry. - I've got a bloody headache. 756 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,080 Yeah? Me too. 757 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,960 And there's a lot of information. 758 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:51,880 Oh, yeah. 759 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,280 Yeah, soak it all in. 760 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,120 It's like a tennis match. I'm like, Prosecutor, witness, 761 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,320 Prosecutor, witness, Prosecutor, witness. 762 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,560 And then Shaun. What, what's Shaun's reaction? 763 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,200 Like, argh, I can't get anything out of him. 764 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:04,240 No. 765 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,680 Yeah, you really don't know if he's feeling guilty or if he's very sad. 766 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,240 Yeah. 767 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,720 I like hearing the group. 768 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,920 You know, the collective differences and the collective speculation. 769 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,640 No one knows what he was like when it happened. 770 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:18,920 Right. 771 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,440 So, the "berserk" relates to when the police and the ambulance arrived. 772 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,640 Right. 773 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,080 And I agree with some, I don't agree with others. It's all fascinating. 774 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,760 Have you ever had a big, major accident 775 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,240 where adrenaline has shot your whole body? 776 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,760 You don't know what to do. 777 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,360 You're literally like a mind blank. I think that's what happened here. 778 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040 He was just so shocked, he was just, he was gone, he... 779 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,560 I'm someone that believes we should take mental health into account, though, 780 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,680 and not everyone will agree with that and I understand that. 781 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,240 Because, do you know how some people are like, 782 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,240 "Oh, not the mental health card, get out of jail card?" 783 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,280 Like, I hear that a lot from my own parents. 784 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,960 If mental health was used as an issue, 785 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,800 I would really need a strong case 786 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,120 to convince me 787 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,120 that that was an excuse to be given a pardon 788 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560 for some crime that's been committed. 789 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,840 Well, it's fast becoming more of an excuse for people to get off. 790 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,320 It's never the case. 791 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,160 Yeah, and that's what I hear a lot, even my parents are like, "Oh, bloody hell!" 792 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,520 - And I'm like... - Yeah. 793 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560 It's been refreshing and nice to hear people 794 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,160 being so passionate about it. 795 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,080 And also taking into consideration 796 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,080 everyone's views without necessarily going down their throat 797 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,880 or being aggressive about it. 798 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,080 Yet... 799 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,200 Just go and grab a seat for me, alright? 800 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,880 Yeah, sit down, just there. 801 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,120 As the second day of the trial continues, 802 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,120 the prosecution turns to Shaun's behaviour 803 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,560 in the hours after his arrest. 804 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,000 Inspector, will you give the court 805 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,000 your full name and rank please? 806 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,240 Matthew Sheehan, Inspector of Police. 807 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,480 And as at March, 808 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,800 you held the position with Custody Management, is that correct? 809 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,160 Yes, that's correct, sir. 810 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,440 And what does that entail? 811 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,680 Well, basically, I'm responsible for the prisoner's rights, 812 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:14,680 to explain all their rights and to make sure that anything 813 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,000 that needs to happen for the prisoner, happens. 814 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,840 You know, I basically look after him. I'm his carer. 815 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:26,440 Hi, Shaun. I'm Police Inspector Mathew Sheehan. 816 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,000 I'm a Custody Management Officer. 817 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,920 It's a doughnut. 818 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,680 On the morning that you saw him, you had some concerns 819 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,640 for his wellbeing, did you not? 820 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,160 Yeah. I've had hundreds of prisoners in my care before, 821 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,600 and he was acting differently to what I would expect. 822 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,800 Can you indicate, for a start, whether he was distressed? 823 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,080 I wouldn't say distressed. It was more his demeanour, 824 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,000 he was very nervous. 825 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,040 Which is unusual, very unusual, 826 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,680 actually, for a prisoner to be nervous with me. 827 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400 I tell them I'm not involved in the investigation. 828 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,160 And, and I also tell them that I'm not involved 829 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,280 in the decision or charges, or if there is any charges. 830 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,720 So, I put them at ease from the start. 831 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,320 It didn't click quite right in my mind. 832 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,640 I'll come back and check on you in a minute. 833 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,120 So, that's when I decided to contact the Mental Health Crisis Team. 834 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,520 And did you also contact an ambulance, as well, 835 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,760 to come and assess him? 836 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,240 Yes. I... 837 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,240 Yeah, contact the ambulance team is always the first port of call. 838 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,160 So, what you were concerned about was to check 839 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,240 whether he was likely to self-harm is that right? 840 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,080 Yeah, when you boil it down to it. Yeah. 841 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,240 Thank you, Mr Sheehan. No further questions. 842 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,680 You formed, based on your experiences as a police officer, 843 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:10,440 the opinion that Mr Yang was not just down in the dumps, 844 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,560 but you thought, serious enough to call an ambulance 845 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,920 and get the Mental Health Team into action 846 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,160 and you arranged for them to assess him. 847 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,760 Yes. I thought it was serious enough to call them. 848 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,720 You also arranged for him to have some food at his request, 849 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,000 by the look of things. 850 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,640 Yes. 851 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,400 You had a bit of a chuckle, to use the word, 852 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,120 that he wanted some bananas because he liked bananas. 853 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,200 And you went and got him some bananas? 854 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:39,120 Yes. Bananas is a very unusual request. 855 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,600 I mean, you know, like in years in the police, 856 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,200 I don't think a prisoner has ever asked for bananas before 857 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:46,800 and, I did find that funny. 858 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,640 Normally, it's McDonald's, isn't it? 859 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,240 Ooh, yeah. If we're going for a cheapie, 860 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,760 McDonald's is always an option 861 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,240 if we're trying to save the government some money. 862 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,600 You brought the bananas back and you monitored him 863 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:57,840 in the normal situation. 864 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,440 It was basically your last contact with him? 865 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,680 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's how it went, yeah. 866 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,840 Your Honour, I have no more questions. 867 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,480 Mr Crown, do you have any questions for this witness? 868 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,640 No, Your Honour. 869 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,960 Well, thank you very much for attending, Mr Sheehan. 870 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,480 You're now free to leave the court. 871 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,800 Well, this type of detective, 872 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,080 actually what gives police the bad name, right? 873 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,440 Shaun was charged with something heavy, his partner died, 874 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,040 and he's like, "And yet, me, I didn't calm him down. 875 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,800 "So, something must be wrong with him." 876 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,120 Mr Crown, do you have another witness? 877 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,280 Yes, Your Honour. The Crown calls Detective Sergeant Harry Adams. 878 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,560 The prosecution's next witness is the police detective 879 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,520 in charge of investigating Carlo's death. 880 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,480 Detective, would you state your name and rank please? 881 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,920 Detective Sergeant Harry Adams. 882 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,640 You ascertain that the accused made a triple- call on 12 March, 2022 883 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,560 at about 12 or 13-past-nine, is that right? 884 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,440 That's correct. 885 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,400 The conversation of Mr Yang is a little, hard to understand, 886 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,760 but the transcript is, as far as you're concerned, 887 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,280 an accurate statement of what was said, is that right? 888 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,720 Yes, it is. 889 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,920 Ambulance Emergency, what suburb? 890 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840 OK. I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding you. 891 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,120 Can you please tell me what suburb you're in? 892 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,560 We can help you, if you calm down. 893 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,920 I-I-I had a fight with my friend and my friend is dead. 894 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,040 Is your friend with you, sir? Is your friend with you? 895 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,040 Yeah. 896 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,560 OK. Can you tell me the address? Can you give me an address? 897 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,600 Give me the address so I can send you some help. 898 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,120 Petersham. 899 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,720 Did you say, Petersham? 900 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,480 I'm having trouble hearing you, can you please repeat the address? 901 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,560 I felt scared for him. 902 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,400 People think in the jury that he's emotionless, 903 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,120 but I just see the opposite. 904 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,080 And I don't know why. Yeah, it's kind of weird to explain that, 905 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,320 I-I-I do, I feel sorry for him. 906 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,160 Now, did you attend the custody area of the Glebe Police Station, 907 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,960 where the accused was seated inside the interview room? 908 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,760 That's right, yes. 909 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,920 And he was with his nominated support person, Mr Clifford Reid? 910 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:06,960 He was. 911 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,160 Do you understand you're under arrest? 912 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,600 He's not dead. I did not kill or murder him. 913 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,280 No, mate, Carlo's dead. Can you tell me what happened? 914 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:31,200 I-I don't remember. 915 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,320 We have breakfast. Carlo argue with me. 916 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,880 He criticise me a lot. 917 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,960 And-and-and then, 918 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,840 and then my head started spinning. 919 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,760 But I don't know, I don't know what happened. 920 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,880 Look, I don't know. I think he should have some legal advice 921 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,360 because of the seriousness of the situation. 922 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,880 He advised Shaun not to participate in any interview 923 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,560 until he was able to obtain further legal advice? 924 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:08,840 That's correct. 925 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,800 So, before you proceed, Mr Crown, as you've just heard, 926 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,320 the accused declined to answer any questions put to him 927 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:17,960 by Detective Adams. 928 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,160 All people in this country 929 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,200 have the right to refuse to answer questions put to them 930 00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,000 by police officers. 931 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,840 Thank you, Mr Crown. 932 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,760 Thank you, Your Honour, I've finished. 933 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,000 Do you have any questions for this witness, Mr Benedetti? 934 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,360 No, Your Honour. 935 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,600 Mr Adams, you're free to leave. 936 00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,000 - Yeah. - Should we move all this to? 937 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,040 That's a good idea. 938 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,920 Go all around, rather than two groups. 939 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,440 Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. 940 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,240 Are we allowed to move furniture? Too late, she's gone. 941 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,560 I was glad to hear the tape recording. 942 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,600 What about you, what did you think of the tape recording? 943 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,200 I couldn't-it was not clear. 944 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,400 - He was, he was wailing. - Wasn't clear? 945 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,480 Crying doesn't mean you're sad or you're sorry. 946 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,880 It could be he was guilty and thought by crying over the phone, 947 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,440 he, he wouldn't be accused. 948 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,920 He is on trial for manslaughter. 949 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,200 I don't think it's so black and white. 950 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:21,640 I think you can be remorseful but still be guilty. 951 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,840 Do you guys think the police have treated him, like overall, 952 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,080 the overall evidence, everything we've heard, 953 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:28,960 do you think the police have treated him fairly? 954 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,280 - No. - Basically, in a good way, or not? 955 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,320 No. 956 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,800 It wouldn't surprise me if, with the police officers 957 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,080 in their brains, racist, racist elements came into their mind. 958 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,120 And he was treated that way. 959 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,120 He wasn't just Asian, but he was also a homosexual man. 960 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,640 - Mm. - Mm, oh I... 961 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,160 The police do not have a good history, as we know, 962 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,320 with the Mardi Gras' origins. 963 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,360 Yeah, I heard, I heard, that's, that's in the back of my head. 964 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,680 And that's why I kind of feel like 965 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:48,440 it's this real sort of derogatory tone. 966 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,600 When I, when I thought of the banana, do you know what I thought, 967 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,680 he was-he didn't say it directly, but this is what came into my mind? 968 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:54,400 I thought it too. Don't say, I know it, 969 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,120 I know exactly what you're thinking, cos I thought it. 970 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,320 Like he, he was like calling him "a monkey." 971 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,000 - Yes. - Like, that's how I viewed that. 972 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,520 That's precisely how I, I read- that's why he was laughing. 973 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,520 You know, you think you are meant to trust the police. 974 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,240 In this case, I'm not sure if I do trust the police. 975 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,480 Just knowing the history of the police and the gay community, 976 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:10,680 it didn't feel good. 977 00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,680 Everybody agrees there was "a fight." Yeah? 978 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:15,560 Well, that, that's what he says, right? 979 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,640 - I don't, I don't know. - He says that there was... 980 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,960 No, we don't agree there was a fight, no. No, there was no fight. 981 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,760 Guy, I don't know whether there was a fight. 982 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,000 No he, he said... He says, it says "The detective-" 983 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,640 Yeah, but I took "fight" to be "argument." 984 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,520 Argument. Yeah, that's the same with me. 985 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,400 So, that when he's in the police station, 986 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,040 the last sentence he says there is very interesting. 987 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,240 Police says, "No, Carlo's dead, can you tell me what happened?" 988 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,360 And he says, "I don't remember, we had breakfast, 989 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,560 "Carlo argue with me, he criticises me a lot. 990 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,800 "Then my head started spinning, but I don't know what happened." 991 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:45,800 Mm. 992 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,440 So, he's almost had, like, a mental blank, 993 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,680 where he doesn't remember what's happened? 994 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:51,440 Like, a blind rage, or something like that? 995 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,120 You know how people have those moments? 996 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,760 Yeah. 997 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,920 Yeah-yeah, like that whole thing of seeing red, 998 00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,680 it's happened to me before 999 00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,480 where you get extremely, extremely built ah- riled-up. 1000 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,360 Um, you either say something or you do something. 1001 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,040 It's usually immediately after, 1002 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,920 you understand that you've messed up. 1003 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,280 And it's that clar- moment of clarity where, you're like, 1004 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,600 what have I actually just done? 1005 00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,720 I had a moment where that backfired on me. 1006 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,000 And ever since that moment, I've just, I've never been that person. 1007 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,400 I've, I've kind of kept that all in check. 1008 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,800 But just because it works for me doesn't mean it works for everybody. 1009 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,800 But didn't he say, "I didn't murder him? 1010 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,480 He also clearly says, "I didn't kill or murder him." 1011 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,600 Yeah. 1012 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,320 "Kill or murder," which is interesting language as well. 1013 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:38,880 They're both the same thing, no? 1014 00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,600 No, they're not. They're not the same thing. 1015 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,640 You can accidentally kill, but you can't accidentally murder. 1016 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,720 We were talking about things going wrong with the blender or whatever. 1017 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,040 Yeah, yeah. 1018 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,120 I mean, there was something that precipitated the altercation. 1019 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,120 I really want to know how they actually were with each other. 1020 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,600 Was this just a little blip? 1021 00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:54,560 Tiff or-? 1022 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,320 Yeah, and if he was aggressive, what, what kind of episodes have they had? 1023 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,760 He says it in there, that Carlo was criticising him a lot that morning. 1024 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,160 I mean, why-what, what was that about? 1025 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,120 - What was he doing? - Why, why was he being criticised? 1026 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,720 - y was he being criticised? - was Carlo just critical? 1027 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,560 See I'm not, not convinced that this isn't domestic violence yet. 1028 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,920 Clearly, the bloke's emotionally distraught. 1029 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,960 You know, I mean if, either way, if he's completely innocent 1030 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,840 - and he's found his lover dead... - Exactly. 1031 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,280 - He is innocent. That's the thing. - ..of course, he's gonna lose it. 1032 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,800 - Yeah, that's right, yeah. - He is innocent. 1033 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,240 - He's sitting there an innocent man. - Oh, yeah right now, yeah. 1034 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,920 Was it an accident or was it manslaughter? 1035 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,280 We have no idea about their character. 1036 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,720 We just know a traumatic event caused Shaun to absolutely flip out. 1037 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,240 - Bye, guys! - See you tomorrow. 1038 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,000 I've certainly changed my opinion from yesterday 1039 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,720 where I was thinking that it was a matter 1040 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,200 of circumstance and accident. 1041 00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,640 Was he pushed to a point? 1042 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,840 I'm focusing on that, 1043 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,600 "he's always critical of me." 1044 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,520 That is an abusive relationship by nature and it can wear somebody down. 1045 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,400 I know from myself, I had an abusive boyfriend when I was 17 1046 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,480 and he got an absolute hard on from trying to belittle me. 1047 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,040 You know, "You are worthless, you are nothing." 1048 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,320 Then they control you and they abuse you, 1049 00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:18,480 and-and the relationship is just so imbalanced, it's not even funny. 1050 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,840 So, how far did Carlo take that? 1051 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:26,440 Next time... 1052 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,000 I want to prove that somebody killed somebody. 1053 00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,640 The first, and only, witness to the death. 1054 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,680 Have you ever told anyone that Mr Yang's crying was a temper tantrum? 1055 00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,120 - Is that a question? - Yes! 1056 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,440 But can the testimony be trusted? 1057 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,840 For me, the maths, the time doesn't add up. 1058 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,000 Half-an-hour is missing. 1059 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,680 And crucial revelations. 1060 00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:51,280 We had a fight and he just kept at me! 1061 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,840 It might not be an attack, it might be self-defence. 1062 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,640 Somebody's got to be responsible for Carlo's death. 1063 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,440 Two people, one died, the other one's still alive. 1064 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,800 The relationship was deteriorating and he wanted to end it. 1065 00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,960 It might get a bit heated later on. 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