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I must be in heaven, man.

'Cause I get to introduce

Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul!

Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul.

♪ Can you hear me? ♪

♪ Wake up ♪

♪ Where's the voice Of America? ♪

♪ Can you hear me? ♪

♪ Wake up ♪

♪ Where's the voice Of America? ♪

Listen!

♪ I know that we knew ♪

♪ Right from wrong Once upon a time ♪

♪ Everything we stood for Has been compromised ♪

♪ I been quiet ♪

♪ Too quiet ♪

♪ While across Our borderline ♪

♪ My people lie ♪

♪ Can you hear me? ♪

♪ I said wake up ♪

♪ We are the voice Of America ♪

♪ Can you hear me? ♪

♪ Wake up ♪

♪ We're the voice Of America ♪

♪ We're the voice Of America ♪

♪ We're the voice Of America ♪

♪ We're the voice Of America ♪

All right.

♪ After the wind Dried my eyes ♪

It was a time when there were clubs

all over for teenagers.

On a Friday or Saturday night,

you had your choice

of a dozen places to go

to hear live music.

We just had a million places to play.

Beach clubs and VFW halls

and-and-and high school dances,

and there were clubs built for teenagers.

♪ And jump for joy And Xanadu ♪

♪ It's Hullabaloo ♪

The Hullabaloo clubs were a franchise

from the television show.

For one reason or another,

I was going to the one in Middletown one weekend.

I walk in, and...

uh, there was, uh, a band playing,

sounded really good. Stevie was fronting.

My recollection is, I always say

he had on a huge paisley tie

that caught my attention,

- and it was funny. - Bruce had a band,

The Castiles, it was one of those bands.

My band was the Source.

Our two bands were the only bands that had managers.

He had this crazy character named Tex, you know,

and I had Big Mama McEvilly,

who was the drummer's, my drummer's mother.

And I don't know if we exchanged some information.

I didn't have a phone.

There was just some mystical thing in the air

that happens when you meet somebody

who feels about something the same way

with the kind of intensity that you feel about it.

So he just became

my rock and roll brother instantly, you know?

Now tonight, the whole country

is waiting to hear England's Beatles.

February 8th, 1964,

there were no bands in America.

February 9th they play The Ed Sullivan Show,

February 10th, everybody had a band in their garage.

It was revealing this extraordinary new world,

especially for those of us

who were misfits, freaks, and outcasts, you know.

We're not relating to anything that society was offering us.

But they were so good,

you couldn't picture doing it.

What nobody knew

is that we'd been rehearsing and practicing

in Britain, in Europe, in Hamburg,

and we'd put in a lot of hours, you know.

It's Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours.

Um, so by the time we reached America,

we were a fully formed beast.

But you couldn't imagine

how you get into that world, you know?

Four months later,

lucky for us, the Rolling Stones come.

You know, they made it look easier than it was.

They wore different things, they had no harmony,

you know, it was the first punk band.

You've gotta keep things simple.

That's the great thing.

If you listen to any great records,

they're so simple.

The fact that Mick Jagger

did not smile.

That to me meant this is not

show business anymore, this is a lifestyle.

I was like, "I want to do that."

We would put together one band after another,

and we couldn't get work, really.

Nobody wanted to hire bands

that were playing any original music.

I go see Bruce,

he said there's this new place called

Upstage at Asbury Park.

There was this crazy idea for a club,

just for kids, no booze,

open from 8:00 at night till 5:00 in the morning.

And if you were good, you would lead the jams.

Stevie Van Zandt, he's my baby,

you know?

The fact that he played bass, keyboard.

Of course, Steven excels

with his guitar and his voice.

He and Bruce made a great combination.

Totally different guitar players,

and constantly on the stage together.

They would sweep the floor,

they loaded soda machines, they did everything.

And Upstage became the place

where we met everybody. Southside Johnny,

Garry Tallent, Vini Lopez,

uh, Danny Federici, everybody.

And one day I came, and there's this guy

with long bushy hair on stage,

he was doing a Yardbirds song,

and he was killing it.

I mean, the passion was so much there.

The guitar playing was great.

He was killing the singing, I just, I went,

"Who's this guy?

I don't need the competition. I'm the singer here."

But I figured I could either make friends or kill him,

so I went back and made friends.

And it was really the start of a great friendship.

You'd be in one guy's band one week,

another guy's band another week,

'cause they're putting bands together, trying things.

We did a duet thing one time,

just guitar and harmonica.

It was very fluid back then.

And we were rooting for each other,

you know, we were mildly competitive.

But I think the love we had for each other

overwhelmed everything.

He was one of those guys I met, like Bruce,

who said flat out at 17,

"I'm gonna be a musician."

We didn't think "I should prepare to be...

maybe I should study up and do," no.

It was all or nothing at all, you know?

Bruce was the first really to get out.

I mean, he-he actually got an album made,

and was playing around the country a little bit.

Bruce and I had a bunch

of different bands together,

but he actually got signed as a folk singer.

Unfortunately, Bruce had to say, uh,

you know, "Now that I'm signed as a folk singer,

I'm not a folk singer," you know.

"I got a band."

And so the record company's pissed.

I was one guitar too many.

At that point, you know,

I said, "You know what?

I think we missed the boat anyway."

So I quit entirely,

and, um, I started working construction.

Steven lived with my wife and I.

He was working a jackhammer on the parkway.

He would come home literally covered in tar,

his hands would be like this.

I'm saying, "You're a guitar player, you can't do this,"

and finally he got a gig with The Dovells,

uh, and did the oldies circuit.

Uh, the Dovells made a couple fantastic records,

"Bristol Stomp" and "You Can't Sit Down,"

and along the oldies circuit, you're also gonna play Vegas.

Now, I'm a big...

gambler as a kid at that point.

I'm also a bit of a Mob aficionado, you know?

So I'm all in, okay, um, you know,

and, um, and that begins

a very big chapter in my education.

Back in the '50s, we were really segregated.

The white DJs were supposed to play their white artists

for their white audiences,

the Black DJs were supposed to do the same thing.

There was Little Richard, Bo Diddley, and Chuck Berry.

When courageous DJs like Alan Freed

started playing those Black records

for their white audiences,

that's when rock and roll went to another dimension.

Popular music became

an instrument for social change,

and launched a cultural phenomenon

known as the British Invasion.

Ironically, the British Invasion

had the unintended consequence

of putting all those pioneers out of work.

If you had two hits when the Beatles came,

you were gonna play those two hits

the rest of your life.

I get on this oldies tour,

and all of these guys have been put out to pasture

in their thirties and early forties.

I mean, they are in the prime of their lives.

So they're all pissed off.

All of 'em.

They hate being called oldies.

They're not old.

I'm the only one having a great time.

You know, I'm meeting all these amazing people.

Stevie would hang with us on the tours we were doing.

He always had a little hat,

a little cap or beanie or something on.

And he always wore, like, a purple jacket, brown pants.

You never knew where the style was going to go.

The first time I met Steven,

I was doing a show for Dick Clark

at the Flamingo Hotel.

So I guess he's up in the balcony,

I'm doing a sound check, and I start doing...

Robert Johnson songs.

He was a great blues writer and singer.

A lot of people don't know who he is.

And I'm like, "Am I hallucinating or what?"

It turns out he's into, you know, Robert Johnson,

he's into Hank Williams, he's into things, you know,

that were just fascinating to me.

After we met at the Flamingo Hotel, he joined my band.

He says, "We got a couple gigs left,"

this oldies circuit thing

was gonna end in Miami,

and I come back to Asbury Park January 2nd,

and I'm still wearing a flowered short-sleeved shirt,

and the Frank Sinatra, Sam Snead hat,

and I'm like, "Fuck winter, okay? I'm done.

I'm tropical from now on."

I'm carrying it with me, okay?

And that's how Bruce starts calling me "Miami Steve."

♪ You're sweeter Than the honey ♪

♪ That the bees make ♪

♪ Soul sister... ♪

I got back, me, Johnny, Bruce,

and I think Gary, went to see Sam and Dave,

and they inspired us to start

Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes,

combining rock and soul.

I was not only leading the band,

you know, but also managing it

and doing all the business.

We just kind of organically built a band to do

lots of different types of music.

I always wanted horns.

'Cause Count Basie and Duke Ellington,

that's what I grew up listening to, but more.

The horns are on those old Atlantic records, Stax-Volt.

Steven really wanted them too.

That's where we had a mutuality.

We both wanted to hear this horn section go "Ba-da!"

The scene revitalized

when, uh, we put the Jukes together.

We just went into a bar

that was about to go out of business.

There had been a hurricane or something,

the roof was falling in.

It was called The Stone Pony.

We said, "Look, we'll play for the door,

you have nothing to lose, we play what we want."

They started lining up in the rain

outside The Stone Pony in Asbury Park

six hours before the 10:00 p.m. kickoff

of the biggest night in the lives

of Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes.

You hear that? Say that louder.

That's the greatest.

I've come to see them 120 times.

120 times!

Who goes to see anyone 120 times?

Kids would huddle on the boardwalk

with transistor radios,

listening along with their friends at home,

and in bars along the Jersey Shore,

to the first live concert broadcast

in the history of Asbury Park.

Tonight may be Memorial Day in the rest of America,

but it's New Year's Eve in Asbury Park.

- All we wanna know... - Yeah?

...is what are you people doing in my town?

I... I consider myself very fortunate

that I got to see a bit of that part

of Asbury Park.

The boardwalk, the club scene,

Steven trying to create an original sound

out of classic dirt, grit,

mud, heart, soul.

Seeing them in this bar,

you know, they were just so powerful, you know?

But you know, I always joke

that we were probably Southside fans

before we were E Street Band and Bruce fans.

I don't know about you...

♪ We're having a party ♪

♪ Everybody's swinging ♪

♪ Dancing to the music... ♪

So Bruce had done the showcase clubs.

You know, each stage, the rules change.

Once you're in that stage,

and the records weren't selling,

and you know, he wasn't gonna graduate

to, uh, anywhere past that,

so you know, he's coming down, hanging out with us.

♪ Dancing with my baby ♪

♪ We're having a party ♪

♪ Everybody's swinging ♪

♪ Dancing to the music ♪

♪ On the radio ♪

♪ Oh yeah ♪

♪ So listen, Mr. DJ... ♪

He created extra interest.

People started coming

from North Jersey and Philadelphia,

and we started to really build up an audience,

and we go to a second night, and a third.

One more time!

♪ We're having a party... ♪

That is what made

that scene become even more special.

♪ Dancing to the music ♪

♪ On the radio ♪

♪ So listen, Mr. DJ ♪

♪ Keep those Records playing ♪

♪ 'Cause I'm having Such a good time ♪

♪ Dancing ♪

♪ With my ♪

♪ Baby ♪

I think I really met Steve for the first time

when he came in and saved our asses

on "Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out."

We just knew we hadn't fully realized

the potential of the song.

So Bruce calls Steve,

who comes barreling in.

And I have no knowledge,

or particular diplomacy,

or, you know, sophistication

about the music business at that point,

and these guys are fucking up my friend's record.

And Bruce, you know,

says, "Hey, what do you think?"

You know.

Big mistake.

And I was like...

"This sucks."

He kind of laughs it away, and says, "All right,

then go in there and fix it then."

Then he says, "Everybody,

take that paper you're looking at, throw it away."

"You, this is what you're playing.

You, play this.

Now I want it to sound real guttural,

I want it to sound funky.

Okay? I don't want it to sound smooth.

I want it to sound like soul."

♪ I was standing In the jungle ♪

♪ Trying to take in all The heat that was given... ♪

All of a sudden, it was electric.

You know, it was great.

It only took 20 minutes.

This guy is somebody to deal with.

It was just a grand slam.

I had met another character,

which I should mention...

...uh, named Jimmy Iovine,

who was the engineer on Born to Run.

Uh, Jimmy says, um, "I know you got this band, the Jukes,

I got the key to the studio.

We'll sneak them in after hours and do a demo."

I don't remember the exact hustle,

but I'm sure there was a hustle involved.

I got busy inside. You got me doing this shit.

Get Steve Van Zandt out here.

He'll talk to you all you want.

He's better looking.

Later.

We were doing everything we could

to help Steve and Southside get the record done.

Bruce suggests I see this guy Steve Popovich,

I give Steve the demo, he loves it,

and starts the process of signing the band.

And Steve Popovich, in his insanity,

sends the demo to Kid Leo,

the most popular DJ

at the most popular station,

uh, in Cleveland.

So Popovich is like...

"We better start making this record.

It's already getting airplay."

♪ Baby ♪

♪ This time It's for real... ♪

You have the bootleg Southside Johnny?

We started paying for the record,

we happened to have a good year

at the track that summer.

And, uh, which, uh...

makes me curious as to

why we've never received

one single penny in royalties.

He gave me my first royalty point on an album,

which was Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes.

I'm not sure if I ever got the royalty,

but he gave it to me.

I ought to call him about that.

♪ Baby ♪

♪ This time It's for real... ♪

We still owe money probably too.

And that's kind of how it went, you know?

Uh, we'd had a handshake agreement with Steve Popovich.

I can safely say nobody in the record industry

would have, uh, the same personality,

uh, and been so encouraging,

because we had a lot of crazy ideas for the Jukes.

I wanted to bring Ronnie Spector

and Lee Dorsey in on the first record.

We wanted to bring in the Drifters and Coasters,

and the Five Satins on the second record,

uh, reuniting them.

Uh, these were not commercial ideas.

I remember doing Southside Johnny,

he brought in Lee Dorsey.

I was like, "What are you talking about?"

He said, "Shut up, you don't understand."

I said, "You're right, I don't understand."

I don't understand how it all went together.

I learned a lot from Steve and Bruce both on soul music.

I don't wanna go home.

He knew what he wanted

that band to sound like. His arrangement power,

his commitment to authentic music.

♪ I know that It's getting late ♪

♪ But I don't Want to go home ♪

♪ I am in no hurry Baby, time can wait ♪

♪ I don't want To go home... ♪

You know, I had been writing for years, really,

and I never liked anything I wrote.

I just couldn't relate to it.

I decide, "You know what? I gotta go to school.

I'm gonna go to school my own way."

Well, I decide it begins with Leiber and Stoller.

Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller

were the first songwriter-producers

that set the template for everybody who followed.

I decide, "Okay, I'm gonna write

a Leiber and Stoller song

for Ben E. King and the Drifters.

That's gonna be my mission."

And I write "I Don't Want to Go Home,"

which was the first song I ever liked that I wrote.

I didn't have the courage to give it to Ben E. King.

♪ Look at all The people staying ♪

♪ I don't want to go home ♪

That's because...

♪ In their minds They've all been there ♪

♪ And I don't wanna go home ♪

♪ I know the words ♪

♪ I know They've got to be real ♪

♪ Because I don't wanna go home ♪

♪ Baby, it's talking about The way I feel ♪

♪ And I don't wanna go home ♪

♪ Baby, I know We had to try ♪

♪ To reach up And touch the sky... ♪

It was perfect.

The arrangement, and the chart,

the whole thing sounded pretty much in the bag

that, of the stuff that we were doing.

The song itself I thought was wonderful,

because it's so insistent.

When he's like, "I don't wanna go home,"

it lends itself to being repeated,

and it's very touching.

I think Ben E. King would have loved it.

♪ Sweeter than honey ♪

♪ Believe it... ♪

Back then, everybody had a turntable,

they brought their vinyl, everybody's listening.

I walked into a friend's room,

and the first Southside Johnny album was playing

"I Don't Want to Go Home,"

I'm like, "What's this?"

"This is great. I've never heard anything like this."

And I looked, and it was Steven Van Zandt.

♪ Or a picture book ♪

♪ I'm talking about Love, love, love ♪

♪ Ain't nothing But love, love, love... ♪

When you're a kid and have a record in your hand,

you're always reading who did what, who wrote what,

who produced what, this and that,

so Steve was that.

♪ And that kind of love Don't come easy ♪

♪ Baby, ain't much of it In the world around you... ♪

Steve and Southside were a very powerful team together,

and they made really good records.

I used to say, "Steven,

maybe you should sing your stuff yourself."

He wasn't ready to be the front man at the time,

which was the right decision for him at that moment,

because the records he made with Southside's,

uh, fabulous voice, and,

and did great justice to Stevie's material.

What's gonna happen with Steven? He gonna come out?

Steven had already thought he was gonna go with Bruce,

even at the beginning of the first record.

We convinced the record company

it would be okay without me

and I'd still be there producing.

And I was basically gonna join up

with Bruce for a minute.

I went for seven gigs, and I stayed seven years.

♪ Rosalita Jump a little higher ♪

♪ Señorita Come sit by my fire... ♪

The friendship was so intense,

and I needed another sounding board,

and somebody with Stevie's creativity,

and things were going good.

It was just a no-brainer.

You know, we were so close

that I just wanted him near me,

I wanted him at my side.

I heard that when he was

in the E Street Band on those great tours,

that he was managing Southside Johnny,

making payphone calls before cell phones,

and dealing with the Southside Johnny Asbury Jukes stuff.

I know that.

Don't you think I know that?

I know that.

On the piano,

Professor Roy Bittan!

On the bass guitar, Garry W. Tallent.

The names, the nicknames, you know,

the Big Mick, Miami Steve,

the Mighty Maxim, it's like...

On the guitar, Miami Steve.

It was traditional rock and roll

done in a very powerful and new way.

On the drums, the Mighty Max.

It was new, but it was old. It was both.

On the organ, Dan Federici.

On the saxophone, Clarence Clemons.

The E Street Band,

you know, you got guys from Jersey.

Loads of things make a good band.

I think one of the important things

is if you're all from the kind of same area,

if you all relate to the same sort of stuff.

Everyone working toward the exact same goal,

in the same direction,

from the same neighborhood,

at the same time in history,

with the same record collections,

that's what makes a band great.

People talk about the Liverpool sound.

"Oh, The Beatles put that on the map."

It's the same thing that these guys did for Jersey.

Bruce, Steven, Southside

put Asbury Park on the map.

You know, back in the day, there wasn't, um,

there wasn't really videos.

You didn't see too many clips. You saw pictures.

When I saw pictures of these guys,

or even pictures of them playing live,

Little Steven had these three-piece suits and hats,

and he'd come and sing

these crazy background vocals,

and play guitar,

and they were such a gang,

a group of men to be reckoned with.

They scared me.

Most groups, whether it was the Sex Pistols,

or early Red Hot Chili Peppers,

they scared you.

Ramones, they were scary.

The E Street Band was the same.

Some pictures from The River, all dressed in black,

looked like they maybe dressed up

for a wedding, but...

the way they were dressed, maybe gonna be a funeral.

You couldn't tell who was playing

what guitar on the records.

You'd try to figure that out when you were listening.

But you could hear those distinctive background vocals.

He's just all over it.

♪ Ooh, girl I got a crush on you ♪

♪ I said ooh, girl I got a crush on you... ♪

I was like, "Wow, this is rock and roll."

This is that camaraderie

that, like, gang thing that I look for,

and seeing that these guys had this connection.

They could be running down the street,

a certain kind of brotherhood,

and I spotted that right away,

that Mick and Keith thing with him and Bruce.

All right.

♪ I got some beer ♪

♪ And the highway's free ♪

♪ And I got you ♪

♪ And baby you got me ♪

Get down, chico.

Of course, Barry.

Born to Run and Darkness on the Edge of Town

were two very tough records to make.

When it came time for The River, I was like,

Bruce, I love you, but I can't go through this again.

It's too much torture.

He was like, "No, you gotta produce this one with me."

Bruce, he says, "You know,

we got this amazing reputation live,

but you know, we can't get it on record, you know?

So you're a band guy, I want you

to produce the record with me,

and let's get the band sound on the record, you know?"

The River is a classic example

of Steve's influence on my music,

and him bringing his best to the table,

and creating something that really was

a creation of the two of us, you know?

I had two strong sounding boards.

I had Jon and I had Steve,

and they did not have the same vision

for the music we were making.

It sounds great.

Their visions were not incompatible,

but significantly off-center with each other.

Steve and I would agree about many things

in the studio.

We also disagreed about many things.

That was good for me,

because I was trying to suss out

where I wanted to go,

and I got the benefit of all those different ideas,

and was able to decide on which way to go

on any particular project.

We were there for the same reason,

which was to make what we were working on

the best it could be.

It was a lot of fun

some of the time.

♪ Well I wish that I could have myself ♪

♪ A seven day weekend ♪

You know, I was a huge Gary U.S. Bonds fan,

so I came and saw him at a club

here in New Jersey one night,

ended up talking to him,

I said, "Gee, I don't know,

I'd love to produce something for you, you know?

It'd be fun if Stevie and I did it together."

He came in and said, "Look, let's, uh...

why don't we record some stuff?"

And I said, "Sure."

And unbelievably, we have a hit single.

You're on the top of the charts.

Yeah, I like it, man.

Bruce Springsteen, did he produce this album?

Yep, and Miami Steve.

- Miami Steve Van Zandt. - That's it.

I-I don't know how Bruce knew it,

but as one song led to the other,

I started to realize

Gary is one of great soul singers of all time.

We'd like to do a song for you

that was written by Miami Steve Van Zandt.

♪ It's been a long Long time for us ♪

♪ I need to talk ♪

♪ But I'm not Strong enough... ♪

"Daddy's Come Home,"

which is still my favorite song,

and it's a ballad.

He likes to get into all the goody-goody,

the kissy-kissy, the huggy-huggy stuff too.

Steven writes emotional songs.

He writes songs from the heart.

He's got a way of turning a phrase,

like Richard Thompson does,

uh, Tom Waits, Bruce, they all have that way of...

You always go, "God damn,

I wish I had written that line."

♪ Daddy's come home ♪

♪ Daddy's come home ♪

♪ Back where he belongs... ♪

He hears a lot of stuff. It's amazing.

He can hear horn lines,

and he can hear guitar lines.

You know, there are a lot of cats, they don't hear it.

♪ Daddy's come home ♪

This is one of my favorite songs of Steve's,

called "Love Again."

♪ I've been to The Statue of Liberty ♪

♪ So fine and full of grace ♪

♪ Lately every girl I meet ♪

♪ Has that lady's look On their face ♪

♪ I'm not a man For one night stands ♪

♪ That's never been Where it's at ♪

♪ Maybe I'm A little old fashioned ♪

♪ But what's So wrong with that? ♪

Being in the studio with Stevie Van Zandt

was mind-blowing, the things he came up with.

The music that's in his head,

different things he tried.

Steve was an incredible arranger.

It's knowing how to take a particular piece of music

and get the best out of it.

Arrangement to me is all about that,

enhancing the song.

The track in general is there to support

that song being sung by that artist.

The key, really, to a successful arrangement

is nothing conflicting.

Everything's adding.

Here's the horns.

- The backing vocals.

See how they go back and forth?

They answer each other.

♪ Ah ah ah ♪

♪ Ah ah ah ♪

See, the backing vocals just doing "ah's,"

but the horns are actually playing a lick.

And then they... then they all got kind of...

do a, like, a pad together.

That's one of the kinds of things he does.

And the piano is just doing part of the rhythm section.

Steve is very specific about balances.

The fifth bar, the second trumpet

sticking out too much,

he hears all that in his head.

He's a pretty formidable talent, I'd have to say.

- Hello?

I was completely taken and enamored

by everything that Steven touched.

Finally, I said to him,

when we started this record company, EMI America,

I said, you know, "You need to make a record."

Nobody's gonna need a love song sung by a side man.

I'm like, "No, no, you need to do this."

You're one of the greatest songwriters of our day.

You're as good a producer as anybody I know,

and, um, you need to make a record.

Steven, I'm going to kill you if you don't do this.

If I'm gonna do a solo record at that point,

um, I needed to find an identity.

You know, Miami Steve,

the fun guy in the band,

we were like the rock and roll Rat Pack,

and I was the Dean Martin character.

Uh, Bruce is Frank,

and Clarence is Sammy on steroids.

I was the first guy you call if you're gonna have a party.

I thought, "I better kind of introduce myself

or reintroduce myself," you know?

As this new character, Little Steven.

When I first became aware of you,

you were, uh, Miami Steve Van Zandt.

Yeah, that's right!

Now, uh, and now you're Little Steven.

I'm still gonna keep a nickname,

because nicknames suggest

not taking yourself too seriously,

but I wanted to be able to take the work seriously.

I said I'm gonna open the first album

with a song that's gonna explain the rest of my career.

You know, very political.

Ask the question,

"What happened to all our '60s ideals?

Where did they go?"

♪ Come on, baby ♪

♪ Come on, sing with me now ♪

If there is any such thing

as an Asbury Park sound,

then one of the guys most responsible

is Steve Van Zandt.

Miami Steve is best known

as Bruce Springsteen's guitarist,

but he's also a respected songwriter,

arranger, and producer.

Now he's taking that one final step.

He's fronting his own band,

Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul.

When he made the first album,

that was his step away from Bruce.

Those guys love one another.

It's not the big brother

that you're stepping away from.

It's trying to not feel like

the little brother anymore.

And when Steve made Men Without Women...

...that's not a little brother's record.

♪ We always stood On the same block ♪

♪ Way back then ♪

♪ Waiting to find out ♪

♪ Where in the world We fit in ♪

♪ Then something On the radio ♪

♪ Changed everything We'd been ♪

♪ And now I need it, baby ♪

♪ Over and over again ♪

♪ Where it comes from Baby, I don't know ♪

♪ That same old something Just won't let me go ♪

♪ Oh it's too late, baby ♪

♪ It's been too long ♪

♪ Don't try to stop me ♪

♪ Till the good is gone ♪

♪ It seems like Only yesterday ♪

♪ I could hear Big Mama call... ♪

Men Without Women came out.

It was basically the Southside sound,

but taken to another level.

♪ One more time Say yeah ♪

♪ Yeah, yeah... ♪

I was coming into it

with quite a lot of knowledge,

but also a lot of expectation.

It feels very organic,

and personal.

I fell in love with those songs.

I met Steven when I was an intern

at Power Station studios.

And this was at a time

when he was starting his solo album,

but he was looking for a specific sound

on a song.

And, uh, Ben Newberry,

his guitar tech, said, "Zoe plays oboe,

is that the sound you're looking for?"

He said, "Yes."

When we finished the record,

he said, "Do you wanna go on tour?"

When he was working on his albums in New York,

we'd meet every Friday

at this little Mexican restaurant,

and then go see a movie.

It was like being a teenager

when you'd get off early on Friday. It was so much fun.

I think I met Jay Cocks

through Marty Scorsese.

And because Marty and Jay were very close,

um, Marty had shown me and Bruce Mean Streets.

We were talking about

making a film about the songs.

That's when I introduced him to John Cassavetes,

who could light anybody up with the idea,

"You can do this, you can make a movie."

These two guys were kindred spirits.

I see at some Santa Monica cinema

that doesn't exist anymore

there's a one week run of the film,

Men Without Women.

I'm like, "I gotta see this fucking thing.

Steve made a movie?"

Uh, so I go,

and it's a rough cut, it's like a lost movie.

I've spoken to Steven since, and I think it's gone.

Let's ask him for the great undiscovered secret,

like the lost footage from The Magnificent Ambersons.

I remember it.

I remember it from... I saw it when it came out.

I haven't seen it since, so that's, I don't know,

30 or 35 years ago,

or whenever it was, you know?

Van Zandt says the film is not a documentary,

although the storyline does parallel his own life.

That's Maureen "Knuckles" Santoro,

who married Van Zandt earlier this year.

Back in '75, at one of those showcase gigs

I was playing with Bruce and the E Street Band,

it is at that Bottom Line gig

where I first met Maureen.

And I see this girl,

and I just go nuts, you know?

I'm like, "Wow,

this is the Brigitte Bardot of New Jersey."

And we talked a little bit afterwards,

and-and that was it.

I talked her into going out with me

like a year later. It took me, like, a year.

Once Steve met Maureen, that was it, you know?

Simple as that, that was it.

I was one of those guys,

never gonna get married.

She was just into all kinds of things,

literature and ballet.

She was way above my level of sophistication.

She turned me on to all of that,

expanded my consciousness tremendously.

She really just, you know, rocked my world, as they say.

You know, I'm very grateful to her for that.

Men Without Women was written when we met.

You feel like someone is opening a window

onto a private thing, your relationship.

On the other hand, it's a really beautiful thing,

and it's what any rock and roll girl would dream of.

He says he's getting married, great,

I'm his best man.

Little Richard's gonna marry him.

Why not?

I don't know who came up with the Little Richard idea.

I know I was completely in agreement with it.

Didn't think it would happen, and it did happen.

We sat down with Little Richard,

tried to explain to him

the kind of service we wanted.

We don't want too much of the Jesus thing.

"Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely."

At the ceremony, he disregarded

everything we said.

First thing, he's going "Jesus!"

But together you can daily offer

your prayers to God,

and as your love for him grows stronger and stronger,

your love for each other will be purified and strengthened.

It was a classic Steven production.

He had Percy Sledge singing "When a Man Loves a Woman."

Ladies and gentlemen,

Mr. and Mrs. Van Zandt. Meet them.

♪ When a man loves a woman ♪

It was way out there.

I was an usher. I'm glad to see that my job,

I did a good job and it worked, right?

That had something to do with it.

I remember when we were kids,

and we heard Little Steven got married,

and Bruce was the best man.

My best man right here.

And it was the wedding band from The Godfather.

♪ But it really isn't What I need... ♪

And, uh, I heard it was really great.

I don't remember a thing,

but that's what I heard.

Do you feel like Steven Van Zandt is

living out your fantasy or your dream?

Absolutely.

Seems like yesterday, listening to the radio,

and saying, "Jeez, I'd like to do that."

And then you are,

and that's-that's great.

I feel very lucky about that.

Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul,

- how are you doing? - Hello, Peter, how are you?

What are you doing in your show now?

It's basically rock and roll, um...

with horns, you know?

♪ Ain't it hard To see through it ♪

♪ Don't it hurt your eyes To try ♪

♪ It was so much easier Yesterday ♪

♪ When all we had to do Was survive ♪

In my so-called career,

I met the coolest, most important cats.

Frankie Barsalona,

he was the last of the great agents.

The old, uh, promoters were all basically thieves,

and he decided to put his own people in place

the same way that Maranzano

and then Luciano divided the Mob up into regions,

introducing the concept of longevity.

By telling these promoters, "Look, you're gonna lose money

the first-first tour, maybe the second,

you break even on the third, maybe fourth.

From then on, you make money the rest of your life."

This was a radical concept.

He created an industry

that, you know, now could relax

and people could develop.

Because greatness is not born,

greatness is developed,

and I want Bruce to be with Frank.

Frank's the best.

I want Bruce to be with the best.

It was important for Steven that

the E Street Band followed the plan

that Frank had worked out for them.

So from 1975 to 1980,

the E Street Band basically followed

that Frank Barsalona formula.

You know, they went from small clubs, then theaters,

then to bigger places like arenas,

and eventually to stadiums.

By the time they went in to record Born in the USA,

they were poised to become

the biggest band in the world.

On Born in the USA,

Bruce started turning a little more in my direction,

and Stevie wanted to be heard,

and if anything, he wanted to be heard more.

And so that arrangement

that worked well on The River

started to become a little dysfunctional for Stevie.

He just was not happy.

Part of the rationalization

and satisfaction of being a boss

working for another boss

was the ability to offer suggestions and advice.

I liked being the underboss

in the E Street Band, the consigliere.

Kept me out of the spotlight, but allowed me to make

a significant enough contribution

to justify my own existence in my own mind.

And there was a balance between me, Bruce, and Jon.

But somewhere in '83,

it started to feel like Bruce had stopped listening.

Fifteen years,

we finally made it, and I quit...

the night before payday.

It was fucking with destiny big time.

Or was it fulfilling it?

I think the initial intent

was not to leave the E Street Band,

but to just do his own project,

but then I think it became apparent

that he needed to...

to go out and do this.

We had heard he was going back and forth

in and out of the studio, and got tunes,

and some of them are done, some of them aren't.

And maybe there'll be four or five more,

and you're not gonna be playing on them?

We talked about it,

and-and Bruce may have to

finish it without me, you know?

At the time, I thought he was nuts.

I didn't understand it one bit.

Uh, I told him so.

He felt he had to give it his whole 100%,

do it, you know.

But, um... hey,

you gotta follow your dream, your conviction.

If you don't, what are you following?

I thought, you know, "You're in a band that's...

doing phenomenally well,

having a great time,

you know, you're working with your best friend.

Do you wanna risk losing that?"

Though I started recording solo albums,

technically I was still producer on the album,

and still involved in it.

"Dancing in the Dark" was way till the end.

They had the record together,

Jon Landau, the manager, was saying,

"We're missing one more song,

we need one more verifiable hit," or something,

and so Bruce kept trying

and kept trying, until Steven said,

"I think I put out two solo records

in the time it took you to write that one song."

"You're right. I remember."

He plays me "Dancing in the Dark"

and "No Surrender."

Says, "'Dancing in the Dark' is gonna be on the record,

and 'No Surrender' is gonna be an outtake, like a B-side."

And I'm like, "Uh, Bruce, I gotta tell ya,

you got it backwards.

I don't know about 'Dancing in the Dark,'

but this 'No Surrender,'

this is what it's all about."

This is for, uh...

This is for Little Steven. He's...

- He's got...

He's got a record out called Voice of America now.

"No Surrender" was something I was going to take off,

but he said, "No, you've got to keep it on."

And I was afraid it was too one-dimensional,

or-or... but he-he really...

when he came in at the end and said, "No, that's...

that's gotta be on the record,

man, that's what it's all about, you know?"

It's funny he did that, 'cause it's a song

that speaks more to who Stevie is

than maybe to who I am,

but it said something about us also together.

Making a decision to leave

an iconic band like the E Street Band

had to be...

probably one of the most significant

decisions in his life.

That album featured two songs

that seemed to be about Bruce and Steven's relationship.

"Bobby Jean,"

where one of the friends goes out on their own,

and "No Surrender," which seems to be about

their promises to each other over time.

Only Bruce and Steven know if those songs

reveal something they could never

bring themselves to say to each other in person.

♪ Then we busted Out of class ♪

♪ Had to get away From those fools ♪

♪ We learned more from A three-minute record, baby ♪

♪ Than we ever Learned in school... ♪

He did need to take a shot at that point.

The night we talked about him leaving was,

we talked, "Let's not throw the baby out

with the bath water.

You know, I think that,

all I know is you're one of my deepest friends.

I need that relationship.

I don't want that to disappear."

♪ Well we made a promise ♪

♪ We swore We'd always remember ♪

♪ No retreat, baby ♪

♪ No surrender ♪

I think he just needed his independence,

and, uh, um...

so I was as supportive as I could be,

but I felt badly about him not being in the band.

It was difficult and painful,

and, uh, not my favorite chapter

in what we've done, you know?

Politics in rock began

with the first two sentences

of Bob Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues."

"Johnny's in the basement mixing up the medicine,

I'm on the pavement

thinking about the government."

Thinking about the government?

Well, why would you do that?

We're on our first European tour, man,

we're breaking, we've broken through.

He and I went to East Berlin in 1980,

just the two of us, one afternoon.

You know, they confiscated your reading material.

You could go over there,

but it was a very, very oppressed society.

And I believe that that was part of the beginning

of his awakening to...

political ideas,

and wanting to include it in his music.

♪ Checkpoint Charlie ♪

♪ Walls so wide, Can't get around it ♪

I'm just walking to a park,

in Munich, I think it was, somewhere in Germany.

Some kid asked me,

why am I putting missiles in his country?

"No, there's a guitar in that case, kid.

There's no missiles.

What are you talking about?"

And it just would not leave my head.

It finally occurred to me, "Oh my God,

this kid isn't looking at me like a rock star,

or a Democrat, or Republican, or anything else.

He's looking at me as an American."

And I'm like...

"I never thought of myself as an American.

I'm from New Jersey."

What part of New Jersey did you grow up in?

Did I grow up? I guess I did.

Middletown, New Jersey.

Right in the middle.

So Middletown was a very conservative town.

All the dads went to work, the moms stayed home.

It was that Leave it to Beaver existence.

But it was the '60s,

so the kids were not like that,

and perfect example was Steven.

My very Catholic mother divorced my father

when I was two or three years old,

which was quite unusual in the '50s.

Virtually unheard of in the Catholic religion.

I spent most of my time with Nana Lento,

the matriarch of the family,

who, if there is any trace of show business in my DNA,

it all would have had to have come from her.

One of my earliest memories is her dancing around

to Elvis Presley records.

Until my mother remarried when I was around seven,

I was brought up by two very strong women.

How old are you?

Eight years old.

You have any other relatives?

Yeah, I have over 80 of them.

Steven always talks about being a band guy,

and I-I think that comes from

the big family he grew up in.

We're a very close Italian family,

and first five years of his life,

he was living with Nana and Grandpa

and the aunts and uncles.

So he's used to having that.

My grandparents lived five minutes away,

so we would go there every Sunday,

and everybody would be there,

all the cousins, aunts, and uncles.

My grandfather spoke with a heavy accent.

He spent a lot of time with the grandkids.

He taught Steven how to play the mandolin and guitar.

And I think he started the whole...

the whole love of music for Steven.

Steven Van Zandt is your real name?

Yes.

Do you have Dutch ancestors, or...

No, I was adopted when I was young.

I'm a-I actually have Italian blood.

How about singing a little song for us?

♪ Oh ♪

♪ Goodbye, my Coney Island ♪

♪ Baby... ♪

My brother and sister are

much younger than me, you know,

seven years younger and 11 years younger.

And unfortunately, I feel really bad about it now.

I never spent much time with them.

I have one fabulous memory,

um, with my brother...

that I, among all the other gratitude

I have for the Beatles.

We had, um,

these transistor radios.

At night, you go to bed,

and under the covers, you know,

you put the radio on and listen to it.

My brother was in the next bed,

and so he could hear,

and, uh, on comes, uh, the Beatles,

finally getting airplay in America

on their fifth single,

with "I Wanna Hold Your Hand,"

and, um...

when they get to the high part...

"I wanna hold your hand,"

uh, me and my brother

just spontaneously burst out laughing.

You know?

We didn't have much in common,

but we had that in common.

That's how profound

and how amazing the Beatles music was,

to cover that big a gap

with what they were communicating at that moment,

which you have to define

as simply unbridled joy.

When I get this thing going,

what do you want me to talk about?

The Beatles.

Which one do you like best?

Paul and George.

Paul and George? Yeah.

You like Ringo? Yes.

What song you like best?

"I Saw Her Standing There."

How does that go?

I don't know.

Well, you're the Beatle expert.

We were all raised in the Baptist church,

but it was a pretty serious church.

Like, your job was to go out

and witness to other people,

meaning to bring them into the church.

I think Steven is as fervent

and passionate about rock and roll

as those people in the church were about their religion.

Out in the darkness...

there's a voice trying to make sense

out of a world that's losing its soul.

A voice that's been silent too long.

Can't miss out. Best show of the year.

Ace show.

♪ There's a sadness All around us ♪

♪ There are words We're too afraid to say ♪

♪ The things that I thought Would last forever ♪

♪ Are changing every day ♪

There were great moments we played Italy,

he was like a superstar there.

We played this one show,

and the girls are trying to rip our clothes off,

and we played in Verona,

and as we're pulling up in the cars to the gig,

the kids are piling on

and banging our windows and all this stuff,

so he was getting some of that love too,

and realized this is what it could be.

- Okay, you're great.

At the time we were touring

on Voice of America,

Born in the USA had exploded.

- ♪ The years gone by... ♪ Bruce hit the road,

it was a slightly different E Street Band.

Patti Scialfa was on background vocals,

Nils Lofgren handled guitar.

I fucking love Nils Lofgren,

but when Little Steven wasn't there,

and Nils was, that was like having a stepdad.

Took me a while to get used to him

being in the house and...

fucking my mom.

And that record Steven co-produced

had seven Top Ten singles,

and at that time, I believe it was tied

for the most of all time.

Woo!

Well, that was a tough period.

It was very strange, because on one hand,

it was kind of... we were having

all of this tremendous success,

and at the time,

I couldn't share it with Steve, he wasn't there.

So I think it... I think that would have been...

It would have been nice at that moment.

I can imagine that affected Steven somewhat,

but I can say he was super focused on what he was doing.

It was a crazy tour. It changed the band a bit.

What was the reason for dropping the horns?

As I began to write for the new album,

I realized I wasn't really writing for horns anymore.

And you know, I may change every year.

♪ What people need What people want ♪

♪ When are we gonna start Talking about that? ♪

At the point I was touring with him,

it was about full-on rock stuff.

♪ No more party ♪

♪ No more party ♪

♪ No more party ♪

♪ No more party ♪

♪ Got my own Party right here ♪

Have you found it a problem

that to be in radio,

radio locked up because of rock music being white,

and your band is not exactly white,

it's in between the soul, the Black,

where do you fit in?

- We don't. Yeah.

Uh, so far.

Has that been a problem?

It is, yeah, it's a problem for everybody

who cannot be categorized exactly.

You know, that's been a problem in radio.

The look of that band obviously is his creation,

but not many bands had

multiracial men and women in it.

To have brought together a drummer from the Rascals,

and a bass player from the Plasmatics.

They should have never met, those two guys.

I think Steven's philosophy about a band is it's a club.

And, you know, we had these long coats

that he made for everyone in the band,

and those were like our colors.

I mean, I remember running around Liverpool

with Maureen with our dusters.

I mean, we had to represent.

Steven brought them on David Letterman

and had the Late Night band wearing them.

Did you actually bring the clothes

for the gentlemen in the band?

- No, I'll tell you the truth.

I went in the dressing room, brought extra things,

I go in there, they're gone.

This is our third trip back to Europe in a year,

which is unusual, especially for an American band.

I like it in Europe,

because I can see America's place

in the world more clearly.

We're like ambassadors over here.

We represent America.

I feel it's necessary to...

apologize

for my government's arrogance,

- and my people's ignorance...

...and I hope you don't judge us too harshly.

There's voices that do not

wanna put missiles in your country.

We need solidarity right now, uh...

before, uh, it's too late.

♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪

♪ I taste your blood In the roots of this land ♪

♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪

♪ Mi querido ♪

♪ Only yesterday I held your hand... ♪

Stevie is an all-or-nothing person.

He's all in, or he's not in.

And when we first started out,

Stevie was, "No politics, no politics.

That's not the way to go about it, that's wrong."

Then he became all politics.

It's all politics.

♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido ♪

♪ How can they just turn Their backs to our shame ♪

♪ Where have you gone Desaparecido... ♪

I felt if I could shine a light

on some of these things,

maybe I could, you know, stimulate

some thought,

which would stimulate some conversation,

which would stimulate some action.

We're supposed to be heroes of democracy and freedom,

and we weren't.

♪ I was standing in Pretoria ♪

♪ Waiting for the sky to fall ♪

♪ Impilo Geyethu Thina Sigidela Phambili ♪

Overseas, the violence in South Africa

is becoming even more commonplace.

It has returned to Soweto,

the giant Black township outside Johannesburg.

Last night in South Africa, three Blacks were killed

while they were protesting the country's race laws.

We don't believe, for instance, in the so-called

guarantees for minority rights,

because guaranteeing minority rights

implies the recognition

of portions of the community on a race basis.

We believe in our country, there shall be no minority,

no majorities, just be people.

I didn't know what was going on in South Africa.

I hear this song "Biko," by a guy named Peter Gabriel.

♪ Biko, because Biko ♪

But man, the song was amazing.

It really led to my engagement

with activism in general,

and specifically, the apartheid regime

of South Africa.

Political songs were not my genre,

but in South Africa,

which had racism enshrined

in its constitution, in apartheid,

that was a struggle that connected with me.

And with Biko's arrest,

I'm not sure they meant to kill him.

I'm sure they meant to torture the hell out of him.

So it was a shock when his death was announced.

Sunday, September 25th,

20,000 Black South Africans

came to mourn Steve Biko,

the non-violent but militant

Black radical leader

who died mysteriously in police custody.

I couldn't find out much about South Africa,

it was just very, very mysterious,

and I had to see it firsthand.

I think on my second trip,

I'm in a taxi, I'm going down the street,

and-and a Black guy steps off the curb,

and the cab driver swerved to try and hit him.

I was literally in shock.

I was like, "Man, let me out the next corner," you know.

I gotta think about what I just witnessed.

And at that moment, really,

um, I went from artist to activist.

So I'm meeting now with the Azanian People's Organization

in Soweto and had to sneak in in the back seat of a car,

because there was a military blockade at the time.

So they're burning, like, coal fires,

and there's, uh, like, three feet of, like, fog

as far as the eye could see.

And we get to this house,

and, um, a cat comes out,

you know, they got machetes,

and they're the tough guys.

They're on the front lines,

they're blowing up radio stations,

they're killing people, they're the real thing.

And they're very, very adversarial.

They don't like that I'm there.

As far as they're concerned, I'm violating the boycott

by being there, you know?

I have to explain to him, I say, "Listen,

I'm on your side."

I don't think they were pretending.

They were thinking about killing me.

But at that point, I was completely fearless.

I had lost all-all of, uh, my fear of everything

on the flight down to South Africa.

Uh, it occurred to me that I had blown my life, you know?

Um, 15 years of work with the E Street Band,

and I quit, and you know,

I didn't care about anything,

you know, at that point.

Uh, so that helped me, uh, you know, stand up to them,

'cause they were really, you know, you know...

fingering their machetes

as they're talking to me, you know?

I said to them, "You're not gonna win this war

blowing shit up, okay? And shooting people."

And they were like,

"We're not gonna win the war that way?

How are we gonna win?"

I said, "I'm gonna win the war on TV."

I got home and started spreading the word.

I needed help.

Steven called and said "I gotta get this idea down,

so he came to Ben and my apartment

and we recorded the "Sun City," uh, demo

on a four-track recorder.

This is, uh, Danny Schechter

of GlobalVision and the Media Channel.

There was four of us, equally important.

Danny Schechter, who had been a real, um,

rabble-rouser from way back,

came from Boston, and had been involved

with that issue years before me.

He was the reason why it was publicized at all.

Arthur Baker offered his studio,

and his engineers, and his musicians,

and the record as his phone book.

When Steve told me about the record,

I decided I wanted to get involved.

Hart Perry filmed it.

If he hadn't filmed, no one would have heard of it,

because American radio wouldn't play it.

It was too Black for white radio,

too white for Black radio.

Any one of those four guys were not involved,

it wouldn't have happened.

I said, "Steven, we should do something."

He said, "I've already written a song."

The track was really catchy.

And then we started just sort of brainstorming

who could be on the record.

And we get together at this, uh, Sunrise Diner

right on 57th Street.

We go in there, we'd make a list,

and we'd draw it on the placemat.

Sun City is a resort like Las Vegas

in the middle of what they call homelands.

The homelands are where the South African government

is relocating all the South African Blacks

against their will.

So what happens is they pay a lot of money

for people to come down.

Every time somebody goes down and plays,

they are justifying

South Africa's relocation policy.

♪ We're rockers and rappers United and strong ♪

♪ We're here to talk About South Africa ♪

♪ We don't like What's going on ♪

- ♪ Tell it ♪ - ♪ Time for some justice ♪

- ♪ It's time for the truth ♪ - ♪ Speak it ♪

♪ We've realized ♪

♪ There's only one thing We can do ♪

♪ We gotta say I... ♪

There was nothing like it.

Steven got together

with different genres of music.

Rockers, punk rockers,

rappers, R&B stars.

And the amount of artists that were involved.

I was an early Midnight Oil fan.

You know, Peter Garrett to Peter Gabriel to Bono.

God almighty, you got two of the Temptations,

Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin.

I was always big on the Temptations,

so just seeing them is like seeing God.

I remembered Lou Reed's in the thing.

People will get the word eventually, but...

It seeps in like osmosis.

You could tell it was gonna be something monumental,

because of who was there,

and the main thing, why they was there,

and everybody's passion

for what the project stood for.

We should impose sanctions.

The only sanction a rock performer can impose

is to say, "We're not gonna come and play

until you do things right."

This country prides itself in being the land of the free.

We should be able to understand

most people who want to be free,

and support them.

This is a continuation

of what I've preached all my life about Apartheid.

It fills me full of joy to participate.

I had a call from Steven, he said,

"This is how I heard about

what was going on in South Africa."

It wasn't "Let's all hold hands, drink Coca-Cola

and say the word peace."

It was about actually there's something wrong

that we need to fix.

Rage is at the heart of rock and roll,

and you can direct it at the people

who are oppressing you,

or you can direct it at people

who are oppressing other people,

who can live in far-off lands.

As a Black South African, I cannot vote.

And as a Black South African, I cannot own land.

As a Black South African,

I am not allowed to get married

to someone from another city.

So, you know, from the cradle to the grave,

if you're Black in South Africa,

you need government permission to exist.

I think people will sit and listen.

Nobody is really aware

of everything that's going on in South Africa,

and I think this will make people really aware.

It wasn't about egos or anything.

We were just all happy to do it.

With everybody on that album,

it's completely different voices,

and different temperaments, and everybody fit in.

♪ Relocation ♪

♪ To phony homelands ♪

♪ Separation of families I can't understand ♪

♪ 23 million can't vote Because they're Black ♪

♪ We're stabbing our brothers And sisters in the back ♪

♪ We're gonna say I ♪

♪ I, I, I, I ♪

♪ Ain't gonna play Sun City... ♪

I'll try and cue you.

There's a part where there's na-na's.

Na-na.

♪ Na-na na-na-na na ♪

♪ Na-na-na, yeah ♪

♪ Well this quiet diplomacy ♪

♪ Ain't nothing but a joke I'm gonna say ♪

The ability to get all those artists on board,

something that was political,

was quite a feat of, amongst many other things,

salesmanship.

Which Steve is pretty good at.

- All this... - Thank you.

...is a Little Steven production.

I'm still impressed how he gathered

all of these different people together,

and everybody at that time was in their prime.

On the day that we recorded Miles Davis,

we were not sure that he was even coming.

And we were all on pins and needles,

and then I get the call.

One of those magical times in the studio

that become part of your life.

This, I'm jumping at the chance

to do this, this one.

South Africa makes me ill,

sick all over, everything.

When I think about it, I can't do nothing.

I can't even play.

There will be a lot of different versions

on the, uh, on the record.

It could be either five or six versions.

The more great performances we get,

the more versions.

And it turned out

that six versions of "Sun City"

were produced simply out of the creative process.

And then Bono flew in from Africa,

and Keith Richards was around, Ron Wood,

and their last song,

called "Silver and Gold," was created.

You know, the dirty little secret here

is none of us wants to get that call,

where the other artist is going to ask you

to put down what you were doing

to take up their cross,

to follow them on some mission.

He corralled all of us.

Steven understood that perhaps

that rock 'n' roll owed a debt to the continent of Africa.

The Malopoets,

uh, have some members

that still live in South Africa,

and I asked them, uh...

It could be dangerous to be on this record.

Who knows what reprisals may happen.

They told me, "We have to be on this record."

Somebody tells you they're ready to die

to be on a record, you know...

that's commitment.

Though the Black South African suffering is horrifying,

they do not ask us for our pity.

All they ask us is that we look at them and see them,

because by seeing them, we see ourselves.

Okay, well you should come in on the first "I."

Jonathan Demme, who shot the thing,

was just the A-1 cat.

Shooting on the video is happening

in two countries at once,

um, England and America, and on two coasts,

New York and California.

It was planned to bring

this huge number of artists into town,

and to gather them together some way or other

to, um, do a-a unity,

a unified image of everybody singing together.

And, um, the night before we had to shoot,

Little Steven had the great idea

of doing it in Washington Square.

All this was happening at once. On one day,

Godley and Creme were shooting

Ringo and Zak Starr in London,

while we were shooting Eddie Kendrick,

and Lou Reed, and Rubén Blades, in New York.

And then the next day,

Hart Perry went out to Los Angeles

to get Bob Dylan and Jackson Browne.

- ♪ Relocation ♪ - ♪ Relocation ♪

- ♪ To phony homelands ♪ - ♪ Phony homelands... ♪

George Clinton,

who's incredible in the piece.

I'm glad it's becoming more clear

what's going on over there.

So maybe the awareness will help

make a change there, I'm quite sure it will.

Actually, I was making music videos at the time,

and I figured, "Wow, you know, uh,

this is like a music documentary.

I'll take my camera and just start shooting."

Steve says, "Here comes Bruce now."

So now I'm expecting to see

like, a whole entourage,

and bodyguards,

and he came around the corner

by himself, hands in his pocket.

I was like, "Wow, that's big right there."

And he was hot as a firecracker, you know?

It wasn't glossy, it wasn't showbiz-y.

He really consciously kept it

with "We don't need this to go to Hollywood,"

'cause we go Hollywood, you miss the point.

So when you edit like Harlem streets,

and then you go and edit some of the African streets,

it almost match, you know, with that same type of vibe

and that grittiness.

You know, back in the days, like, if you go to school,

and somebody call you an African,

you would be ready to fight them.

Because what they had put in all

the history books and stuff,

they made all Africans look like savages.

So if somebody say, "Yo, you an African,"

it was like somebody talking about your mother.

That's the race thing.

It's like a con job, but they made Black people

the main focus of what the con is, you know?

'Cause for me, I believe in my heart

there's really only one race, it's the human race.

Everything else is like a con game,

and they, and it works perfectly.

But, uh, if you're-if you're at the bottom of the con,

I mean... It's not all that great.

MTV was pretty segregated.

You didn't see R&B artists on there.

You didn't see rap artists on there.

And when Steven pulled this together,

it was really ahead of the curve.

He was just including everyone.

Hip hop would be over here,

you know, rock and roll would be over there.

Hip hop was more this like the bastard music

of all the genres.

We all know what each other's doing,

but we looking at each other,

'cause we come from different walks of life.

Whenever they do these things,

and this happens unfortunately very frequently,

they're doing a project that has an international impact,

they don't call Latin artists.

"We Are the World."

You know, "We are the world, except you."

We all have to be represented.

Whatever problem exists,

it's not just one nationality's problem.

It's everyone's problem.

It's a good moment for us

to look at the racism

and the prejudice that still exists

in our own backyard.

It's a moment we should reinvestigate

our own racial problems.

People try to put it across as propaganda,

that it's the left or right. This is apolitical.

Doesn't matter what side. It's common sense.

It was like the whole music industry came together.

It was almost like you felt you belonged.

♪ Oh whoa whoa whoa ♪

♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪

♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪

The whole band, you know, the E Street Band,

he felt that all these people

would be on the right side of history.

What separated Little Steven

was some kind of righteous anger.

Steven was really informed

and very outspoken about apartheid.

He spoke at the United Nations,

and I remember him going on the Donahue show.

We're in New York City talking about "Sun City,"

the most politically aggressive maneuver

in the history of rock 'n' roll.

That video is totally misrepresentative

of the true facts.

Why should Sun City then be linked

with what you saw up there?

Let's get to the truth now. We wanna talk about truth.

Uh, this is the truth.

It's not Sun City itself,

the entertainment complex that's the problem.

It's where it is, and where it is

is where people are not free

to go where they want to go.

They're there because

they have been relocated forcibly.

They've been put on a truck,

and taken hundreds of miles from their home,

and dropped in this area, and they cannot leave.

They cannot get visas or passports,

their citizenship has been stripped.

And no one in the world

recognizes this as an independent country,

except for the South African government.

The single has sold well

since its release yesterday,

and is getting a lot of radio play.

We asked the people at Tower Records

to play "Sun City." Customers listen to lyrics

such as "23 million can't vote because they're Black,

we're stabbing our brothers and sisters in the back."

Some of the lyrics are a little critical,

and when you're dealing with the public,

you have to be careful.

- Would you buy this song? - Yes, I would.

♪ Quiet diplomacy Ain't nothing but a joke ♪

- ♪ We're gonna say ♪ - ♪ I, I, I, I ♪

♪ Ain't gonna play Sun City ♪

♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, I... ♪

The system of apartheid, it's not recognized

by any government in the world,

except South Africa.

It's like Nazism.

The song, "Sun City"

is an affirmation of the resolve

of the community of artists

to contribute to awakening

the public's social consciousness,

to put an end to this inhuman

and totally unacceptable policy.

It was an incredible creation.

In my opinion, it's a very historic piece of music

that really, I think, had an effect on apartheid,

and the way it was seen around the world.

We have Band Aid, we've had USA For Africa,

we had Live Aid,

Artists United Against Apartheid,

Farm Aid, Fashion Aid.

You think there might be

too many aid records?

No, I think-I think, um,

as long as there's injustice

and problems in the world, we should talk about them,

and rock and roll is the best communication we have.

Ronnie Reagan can't hear that, come on.

There's a political element

in rock and roll anyway.

It is you saying,

"I'm doing this

no matter what people think."

But when he started to actually do things,

and say things about politics,

he politicized rock and roll.

We've been quiet too long.

We've been patient too long.

We the people will no longer tolerate

the terrorism

of the government of South Africa.

Tell 'em, Steve.

We'll no longer do business

with those who do business

with the terrorist government of South Africa.

The fact he's partially responsible for

bringing down a government is extraordinary.

I don't know if anybody talks about that anymore.

We the people demand

the unconditional release of Nelson Mandela.

We always knew he had a kind of feistiness.

The surprise was how organized he was.

♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪

♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪

♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪

♪ Na-na na-na-na ♪

♪ Na-na-na yeah ♪

Keep the pressure on!

And I didn't know about apartheid, I was 12, 13,

and I learned about it because I saw that video.

There was a bill passed

um, in the Congress,

the Anti-Apartheid Act,

and it was essentially economic sanctions

against South Africa,

until they ended apartheid,

and it was vetoed by Ronald Reagan.

Steve called me,

and he knew what the situation was.

The Congress was now gonna vote

to override the veto, or not.

To override one of his vetoes was,

uh, quite a, quite a challenge.

He stepped forward, said,

"I'm gonna be part of that process,"

and he came down, and made persuasive cases

to a number of senators,

and it's very impressive we succeeded.

We overrode the president's veto.

And that was the end. Once the banks cut them off,

they had to let Mandela out of jail.

There's Mr. Nelson Mandela,

a free man, taking his first steps

into a new South Africa.

It was the most thrilling moment of my life.

Mandela came here.

There was a whole celebration for Nelson Mandela

at the Tribeca Grill.

So Robert De Niro was there, like everybody was there.

Steven is really the-the, uh...

the person who started this, the whole thing here,

and I thank him, and we all thank him.

And we can tell

the movie companies we work for

we do not want our films to be distributed in South Africa.

We can... we can tell the record companies

we don't want our records to be sold.

We have power, and we have to take advantage of it.

Little Steven, ladies and gentlemen.

Ladies and gentlemen, Deputy President

of the African National Congress,

Nelson Mandela.

I never felt that before.

You know, like, he had, like, an aura, you know?

Of-of a... of spirituality.

My mother and I got to meet him. Wonderful man,

who said, "You must be very proud of your brother."

And now I'm gonna cry.

That's impressive. Politicians can't do that,

presidents can't do that.

But he did pull all those people together

and made a change in the world.

That is the way to go.

Indeed, years later, that's exactly the way I went.

I followed him right down those marbled halls

and through those oak doors,

and made my own case,

um, against extreme poverty.

But I followed his example.

A lot of people, especially once we did

the "Sun City" thing,

you know, started to connect,

you know, the whole rock music to politics.

It was starting to reach people

in the way I was hoping to reach them.

The song itself was an irrefutable jam

that featured perhaps the most

revolutionary gathering of musicians

ever heard on a recording.

It was an inspired song,

an inspired video,

and it inspired American youth

who were part of the global movement,

which eventually pressured apartheid out of existence.

For me and most people I know,

music did that.

You know, we came up in a time

of the Live Aid concerts, the Amnesty International,

and I know there were predecessors to that.

Whether it be George Harrison or Pete Seeger,

this was a formative time,

and it had a huge impact on me.

We got something going on in America

that they're calling...

"New Patriotism," you know?

But, uh...

It don't look like no new patriotism to me.

It looks like blind nationalism, you know?

That ain't right. That ain't what patriotism is all about.

My friend had a copy, on one of those Beta tapes,

of a performance they did

on a German show called Rock Palace.

And I remember it

because he did a great introduction

to the song "I'm a Patriot,"

where he talked about early onset nationalism

back in the States.

Being a good patriot means you question

every motherfucker everywhere every time.

It sure ain't about parties, you know?

Loyalty to the party instead of loyalty to the truth.

He understands the need to utilize

music not just as a means for escape reality,

but to document it, and/or confront it.

Especially Steven, at a time when,

you know, Reagan and all that stuff was in America,

like to go to that direction, it's brave.

♪ Listen I ain't no communist ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I ain't no capitalist ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I ain't no socialist ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I sure ain't No imperialist ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I ain't no Democrat ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I sure ain't no Fucking Republican ♪

♪ I only know one party ♪

♪ Its name is freedom ♪

♪ Say it, I am ♪

♪ I am, I am ♪

♪ I am a patriot ♪

I used to be part of little benefits in San Diego,

I was working a midnight shift security job,

and that was one of the songs that really could connect.

♪ And the river shall open For the righteous ♪

♪ And the river shall open For the righteous... ♪

So I kind of dissected the song

and made a version of it.

♪ I was walking ♪

♪ With my brother ♪

♪ And he wondered ♪

♪ Oh, how I am ♪

I'm gonna leave you with this song.

This is about my favorite song,

written by Little Steven.

I think it was '86, Amnesty International,

I saw Jackson Browne play a version,

and that was really exciting.

♪ I am a patriot... ♪

Stevie was a huge influence on me

at a time when I was trying to write

songs about what I cared about.

And that I hadn't even dared to try

to talk about it in a song.

♪ She said, "I want To run like the lion ♪

♪ Released From the cages..." ♪

I would say that probably

most people who come to my concerts

think that that's my song.

I take the trouble to tell them whose song it is.

I've told him, I said, "Steve,

I'm sure a lot of people think I wrote this, you know."

Usually, as a writer,

you're more concerned with saying too much, you know?

I was concerned with not saying enough.

And Jackson Browne doing one of your songs is wild,

and then Eddie Vedder also would do it.

Such an endorsement, you know, such a-such a, uh,

such a wonderful validation

of what you're doing, you know?

We still play it this day.

We've played it fast, we've played it slow.

You can take that-that car of a song,

get in a demolition derby, and you will win.

♪ And the river shall Open for the righteous ♪

♪ And the river shall Open for the righteous ♪

♪ Someday ♪

♪ I'm a patriot... ♪

You know, whatever, whatever side of the fence,

or if they're leaning on it, um...

it transmits.

♪ Sanctuary... ♪

♪ Sanctuary... ♪

His solo records were just filled

with in-depth political thought.

There's some kind of adrenaline rush

that takes place when you start to realize

why you're on this planet.

This combination of artist and journalist thing

where I'm going places, doing research,

and checking things out, turning it into stories.

I'm doing something that feels important.

♪ America's on trial... ♪

I was terrified, because he went into situations

that I later found out

were really, really dangerous.

I thought, "What happened?"

You know, I marry this fun rock and roll guy,

and we're going all over the world,

we're having a great life,

and all of a sudden, he's in South Africa

being smuggled

into some dangerous area under a blanket.

I didn't know that then.

While I admired what he was doing,

I think I really resented it,

because I felt it was putting everything at risk.

His life, our relationship,

even his musical life.

Out of all the disturbing...

situations around the world, um...

the single most disturbing was right here,

with the treatment of Native Americans.

♪ Love's been sacrificed ♪

♪ Promises buried beneath ♪

♪ The trail Of broken treaties ♪

We celebrated 200 years...

of our Constitution the other day.

That's something we should be happy about,

but until we start honoring Indian treaties,

the Constitution is a lie.

♪ Sing it, I ♪

♪ I am Native American... ♪

On the Freedom - No Compromise album,

the concept was the state.

Uh, I decided to do three sub-themes.

There's South Africa, Native America,

and Latin America.

Stevie was like a bow and arrow,

a very well dressed, you know, archer,

and was shooting those arrows exactly where he aimed them.

Now, if they hit the right target,

you're in trouble. He shook people up.

If you have that in you,

you were a threat to corporate structures.

He's such a galvanic humanist,

that you kind of have to make

that kind of progression into politics.

It was political, but it was more

generally humanistic than that.

No party line, all compassion,

all empathy.

I went to Nicaragua once,

and then Steve decided to come.

I mean, he was amazing on this trip.

He brought nothing but, like, Gatorade and Marlboros.

And here's this guy who is so well-read,

and so politically astute,

but dressed like, you know, like a rock and roll,

you know, like a dervish or a pirate.

♪ Someday we'll reap What we have sown ♪

♪ I don't look east I don't look west ♪

♪ I don't understand Their accents ♪

♪ I will gather no more Of your bitter fruit... ♪

What Stevie did meant something.

This particular song

had to do with an injustice,

and that's a good thing that Stevie is teaching people.

They don't know these stories,

and it was built with integrity.

I have the honor and the privilege

to introduce somebody

who is not only one of the greatest forces

in rock and roll on this planet,

but one of the greatest forces

for justice and human rights on this planet,

and that's Little Steven!

The whole '80s for me,

I was completely obsessed with politics,

against all rational thought, you know,

beginning with leaving the E Street Band.

But it was more than that.

Every album had a different theme,

a different soundtrack,

which was part of my, uh, problem commercially,

and part of my artistic, uh, success.

♪ Keep the people divided ♪

♪ Keep the energy spent ♪

♪ Keep the people divided ♪

♪ So they don't think About the government ♪

♪ Look at all The pretty children ♪

♪ They all look the same ♪

♪ They don't want Your anger ♪

♪ They don't Share your pain... ♪

I'm writing this in 1989.

The alienation between the workforce and labor

started to now become contagious,

and I thought the alienation had now

moved into the institutions.

No longer trusted the Church, the government,

no longer trusted our schools,

and as now, spreading to the alienation

from our very life support systems, the environment.

It's a bit more powerful, more beefy with the sounds

than a typical dance record, but, um,

it wasn't anything to do with rock.

Anyway, uh, that, that...

uh, confused people

pretty, pretty, uh, consistently.

He had the most resolute agenda.

He had it kind of mapped out

where he was gonna go with these songs,

three or four albums deep,

because he is nothing less than revolutionary.

This is for, uh, Leonard...

in Leavenworth Prison.

I was focused on the international situation.

But of course, as it turns out,

in a way, the Native American situation is international,

because they are sovereign nations.

I read In the Spirit of Crazy Horse.

It was very striking to me

that Steven would write this song,

"Justice for Leonard Peltier,"

and try to give him the kind of attention

and regard that he did.

♪ He should say What he wants to say ♪

♪ It's time we listen ♪

♪ He should pray Where he wants to pray ♪

♪ Without asking permission ♪

♪ Leonard Peltier ♪

Everything that he's gone after

has been a really noble or meaningful thing,

so in the end, how could you not support that?

It might scare you, make you upset,

but you cannot say, "You shouldn't do this."

We dedicate this show today

to the students in China.

Solidarity with them.

Finally, I peaked,

you know, in Rome, 1989.

We did a concert for Tiananmen Square.

I couldn't see the end of the crowd, like Woodstock.

This is where my political trip has been leading,

and I realized

I don't wanna be a politician.

I said what I wanted to say,

learned what I wanted to learn.

I said, "Man, that's it.

I'm done. I'm done."

♪ The war stopped For a moment ♪

♪ We held our breaths, My brothers and I ♪

♪ The poisoned sky Stopped crying ♪

♪ The red sun tried to shine ♪

♪ We looked down From the mountain top ♪

♪ And felt so alone ♪

♪ This once was paradise ♪

♪ This wasteland Once was home ♪

♪ Oh... ♪

I had a trip planned for my next album,

to do research in Algeria,

and so I came home from that,

I recorded my fifth album, Born Again Savage,

but I wasn't gonna tour with it.

No record company wanted to sign me anymore.

I was done.

The weight, I think, began to put the brakes

on Steve's freedom

to let his imagination go where he wanted.

And the outlets seemed like they had been

turned off like water taps.

I was spiritually exhausted,

mentally, physically.

I went out to the wilderness, man, you know?

And walked my dog for seven years.

♪ Don't ever say it was all in vain ♪

♪ Yeah, don't tell me... ♪

So there I was, uh...

no more record deal, no more job opportunities,

no more offers, really,

and, uh, no particular ambition either.

♪ Yeah, I know It still remains ♪

♪ Because I'm still the same... ♪

Certainly, it mystified me,

why someone of his caliber

would have trouble getting record deals,

or holding onto one,

but knowing what I do

about record companies,

you know, it was... it wasn't hard to see why.

The idea of writing directly,

addressing directly an issue,

is not commercially kosher.

Promoters don't wanna hire you.

The radios will not play you.

When you're dealing with issues

that have to do with feeding yourself and your family,

then the question is

how far are you willing to go

to support your idea?

You could feed people in Africa,

they're okay with that,

but start bringing down governments,

they start getting a little nervous.

You know, like, uh...

"Maybe we're next," you know?

I met him at a time when he was

not having success.

He couldn't get good music

released by anybody.

Painful as it is, you know,

I think it's a quite good experience

for artists, you know.

You learn more from failures in life

than you do from successes, I think.

They're better teachers.

Bruce had disbanded the E Street Band,

and was moving on to other things.

During the time that Bruce had disbanded the band,

was also a time for reflection for Steven.

I thought about being a professional producer.

You know, I liked producing records,

but I only did it for my friends, really.

I ended up producing a couple records.

I did the Arc Angels, and, uh,

a Nigerian cat named Majek Fashek, Lone Justice,

and then I did a reunion record

with Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes.

♪ It's been a long time ♪

♪ Since we've Laughed together ♪

♪ It's been a long time Since we cried... ♪

Greetings from Asbury Park.

On the stage of the fabled Stone Pony,

the three guys who put the place on the rock map,

Little Steven Van Zandt, Bruce Springsteen,

and Southside Johnny Lyon.

It felt like we should

be working together again.

We laugh, have fun, tell lots of stories,

we had-we listened to a lot of music.

We sat down and wrote things,

it felt like it did when we first started out.

The forthcoming LP

by Southside Johnny & the Asbury Jukes,

entitled Better Days,

resurrects the horn-enriched sound

that was a musical trademark of the band in the late '70s.

The album is produced and arranged

by former Juke and good friend, Little Steven.

I just try to keep it human, and simple, and...

live as possible.

That's the way we always did it, the way I still do.

I haven't really changed since I started, really.

Do the same thing long enough,

eventually it becomes fashionable.

I don't remember it was any much that different,

but when we got into the studio for Better Days,

we both were relaxed enough

that we could let things happen, it was great.

You go back to Asbury, there's Southside,

there's Steve, there's me.

Just those three guys.

That's not gonna happen again.

Those are the people you were there with.

Those times are gone,

but those feelings, the feeling remains.

The soul,

and the love, and the feelings,

we still keep a great faith with.

♪ We lived in a time ♪

♪ In a world of our own ♪

♪ Making up the rules As we went along ♪

♪ Just one coat between us ♪

♪ And we never felt cold ♪

♪ We were never Gonna get old ♪

♪ It's been a long time ♪

♪ Since we laughed together ♪

♪ It's been a long time Since we cried... ♪

Luckily, Lance Freed,

a music publisher who happened to be

the son of the legendary DJ Alan Freed,

heard the Southside Johnny album.

Said, "I haven't heard writing like this in a long time,"

and offered me a publishing deal,

which saved my life.

There were decades of success

in the past.

I didn't feel that his-his writing

had-had diminished at all.

I felt like it was every bit as good as it had ever been.

And eventually, you know, things come around.

At the time it was a lot of money,

and paid my bills for years.

Lance, if you're out there,

I love you, baby.

My relationship with Steven started with Home Alone 2.

We were looking for a song

that would cover a montage.

I said, "Let's think about this.

What you need to do is call Stevie Van Zandt."

♪ The cold wind's blowing ♪

♪ And the streets Are getting dark ♪

♪ I'm writing you a letter ♪

♪ And I don't know Where to start ♪

♪ The bells will be ringing ♪

♪ Saint John, the Divine ♪

♪ I get a little lonely ♪

♪ Every year Around this time... ♪

I said, "I don't know what the song exactly is,

but it has to feel like some of the stuff

you had just done on the latest Southside album,"

which was Better Days.

Steve says, "I'm gonna get the E Street Band

to come in to be backing musicians."

Wow! Okay, all right.

I'm coming to that recording session.

And I thought, "My world has finally connected

with my dream world."

I think Steven, with that particular song,

wrote one of the great Christmas songs.

In my mind, I felt that if there was ever a situation

where I needed a song in a film,

I would call Steven.

♪ This is the time Of your life ♪

♪ Whatcha gonna do with it ♪

♪ Don't fool with it... ♪

I needed a song for the end credits

that celebrated the way I was feeling

about being a young father for the first time,

and he comes back with "Time of Your Life."

♪ Don't think About the future ♪

♪ Don't think About the past ♪

♪ There's just this moment ♪

♪ You better Make it last... ♪

It's an intensely personal song.

I don't really...

think he's written a song quite like it since.

Well, most people who get into a band,

you don't do it to-to win accolades.

You do it because you love music,

you wanna be on stage and share it.

Gold records, winning awards,

those things definitely are meaningful,

but they're definitely not the reason you do it.

♪ Whatcha gonna do with it ♪

He was trying to get the Rascals

up and running again,

and they had been feuding for decades,

and they were a personal favorite of Stevie's.

And to induct them into the Hall of Fame,

he came out wearing those outfits they used to wear

in the very beginning, like little schoolboy outfits.

Some people may not realize it,

but the Rascals were the first rock band in the world.

In the center of the universe, New Jersey,

the Rascals were the first band.

And who knew that sitting in New Jersey,

watching on TV, was this guy David Chase,

saying, "You know, that guy

could be good for my new TV show."

You know, their stage garb was a little, uh, bizarre.

Uh, what I'm trying to say

is people think they dress funny.

Now, this is a subject I know something about.

And I just, you know, for the record tonight,

I wanna say that there was absolutely nothing

unusual about the way the Rascals dressed.

I...

Nothing strange about that.

I used to buy Springsteen albums,

back to the days of vinyl.

I used to read the album over and over,

stare at it.

And I saw this guy,

every album, there he was.

And he looked Italian to me. I'm Italian.

So you know, it-it pricked my attention.

And he was very funny,

glued me to the TV, just really charismatic,

and I said, "That guy's gotta be in the show."

We were having dinner one night,

he goes, "You know, this guy, David Chase,

he saw me speak

at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction dinner,

and he wants me to try a part for HBO."

And I said, "Steven, you can't fucking do that.

You can't be in television.

I mean, think of Donny & Marie.

Are you the Partridge Family? No.

You're Stevie Van Zandt,

you're a fucking rock and roll idol.

You can't do this.

You're gonna ruin everything."

And he goes, "Well, I'm also broke."

Steven goes, "I did this pilot for this TV show,

about a Mob family in New Jersey,

I don't know if it's the right thing."

I said, "What do you mean?"

He goes, "Rock 'n' rollers shouldn't be on TV."

I said, "Well, look, Steven, TV has no memory."

He goes, "What do you mean, has no memory?"

I said, "Do you know

that Henry Fonda had a TV series?"

He goes, "He did?"

I said, "Yeah.

Do you know Jimmy Stewart had a TV series?"

He goes, "He did?"

I says, "Yeah."

He said, "I don't remember." I said, "That's my point.

If the thing is great, great.

If the thing is bad, they'll forget about it."

If he's right, he's right.

What the fuck are you doing?

Sil, take it easy.

I'm losing my balls over here!

This fucking moron is playing Hazel?

Get the fuck outta here!

I was trying to sweep the cheese--

Why? Why now?

Leave it there.

- I don't know, I was just-- - What?

Where do you get these fucking idiots? Where?

He's sweeping the cheese while I'm trying to get...

Leave the fucking cheese there!

I love cheese on my feet.

I stick mother fucking provolone in my socks at night

so they smell like your sister's crotch.

All right? So leave the cock sucking cheese

where it is!

What stunned people

was the breadth and range

and authenticity of this cast,

the surprise of this cast.

And Steve Van Zandt was the personification

of that surprise,

because he wasn't a professional actor.

And you could see that he was made to do this.

He was built to do this.

He said he didn't wanna take

a job from an actor.

We were auditioning all kinds of actors.

So I said, "Well, we'll create a character for you,"

which we did.

And it was based on a character

that he had invented, named Silvio Dante.

His club was gonna be traditional,

with maybe '40s music,

and I said, "That'd be great for the show."

Well, what it wound up as was a strip club.

I wrote a whole biography about him.

He grew up with Tony Soprano, he was his best friend,

and I kind of used my relationship with Bruce.

We were driving on the North End,

which is kind of like Mulberry Street, New York.

It's a real old school Italian district.

"Silvio's here on the North End!"

Owners of the restaurant come out,

they're bringing him out meatballs.

We gotta keep him in the van because it's Beatlemania.

From the Sopranos soundtrack, our thanks to Little Steven.

♪ Even if it's all over ♪

♪ Don't ever say it was All in vain... ♪

What was interesting

in the music that David Chase chose for the show

was that it was exposing Little Steven songs,

and even unreleased Little Steven songs,

to a brand new audience.

I loved picking out the music,

and thinking about songs,

and some of them I'd had in my head for 30 years.

It was my favorite part of the show.

But it was never me trying to, like, introduce, um...

the world to any music,

it was just what was right for that dramatic piece.

When I came in to open up one morning,

there you were, your head half in the toilet.

Your hair was in the toilet water. Disgusting.

I told you I had the flu.

I said my piece, Chrissy.

He was almost unrecognizable.

If you see him in the band,

then when you see him in The Sopranos.

Uh, I was just deathly afraid of people saying "Hey,

I just saw you play in Cleveland.

What are you doing trying to be a mobster," you know?

I was deathly afraid of that.

That's why I gained, I went in the gym,

I gained, like, 30, 40, 50 pounds right away.

Uh, and muscle, you know,

I really, you know, tried to, bulked up,

and I wanted to be as different as I could be,

thinking I'm never going back to music.

You know...

I was in one trailer,

and Stevie was right next to me,

and I used to play a lot of Bruce and Southside.

Steven comes by, I had the door open,

and he says, "I figured you'd be playing Sinatra,"

and I says, "No, man, this is Southside."

He said, "I know who it is."

"You know I wrote all those songs?"

I says, "I didn't know that."

and I took the CD out, said Van Zandt,

I says, "I didn't know that."

He's clearly fabricating a persona,

but you smell enough of Steven in the character,

that-that it's totally believable.

Without Frank, none of youse would be in this room tonight.

I was talking to the guitar tech,

and he said, "Every once in a while,

he'd be waiting too long for his guitar,

he'd turn around and turn into Silvio."

"What the fuck, give me my...

My fucking guitar."

It was probably always in there,

but now it became unleashed.

Hey, Sil.

- What? -"What?"

I've been gone a long time. Let me hear it.

Just when they thought I was out,

they pull me back in.

All right, get the fuck out of here.

I was not fooling around. I came out of that trailer

as Silvio Dante, and I was really him.

You know, I didn't... I didn't take that lightly.

When you're connected with Gandolfini,

you just gotta get better,

and Steven and Jimmy got along so good.

He learned a lot from Jimmy.

He'd always say, "Look in the mirror.

Look at this face, you know?

You believe they cast me as the lead in this show?"

He meant it, you know?

Just being in a scene with him,

you walked away a better actor.

You just couldn't help it.

He was that good.

What the fuck do you know

what goes on in my head?

I've known you since you were a kid, Ton'.

Frankly... you've got a problem with authority.

I knew exactly those dynamics.

I know what it's like to be the only guy

bringing the bad news.

That's the job.

You wanna be somebody's best friend?

Be a real friend?

You wanna be a consigliere?

You've gotta take that heat.

And you gotta stand up to it,

because that's the job, man.

'Cause everybody else is too afraid to do it.

You know, it might cost you your friendship,

or in this case, in Sopranos, it might cost your life,

you know, but you gotta do it.

That's the gig.

So I was comfortable with those dynamics,

and, uh, I think it helped me

as a first-time actor.

All his experience through his career,

with Bruce, and other ways,

he gave me tips, um,

which were really valuable.

He took on more thematic responsibility too

as he became a consigliere.

That's what he's like as a person.

He was always that way with me.

"Don't do this, don't do this," you know?

That was the big time.

He'd been in the big time for a long time.

I'm gonna tell you something I never told anybody.

Back when Jackie was at the end,

they floated the idea

of me stepping up to the big seat.

Not Tony, me.

- Really? - Yeah.

But I thought, "It's not for me."

Still, you wouldn't sneeze at it.

I never saw myself as that kind of guy.

I'm more behind the scenes.

Advice... strategy.

And here you are, Sil.

The times make the man, honey,

not the other way around.

Come on, Stevie!

Once more.

One, two!

♪ Once I spent my time Playing tough-guy scenes ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I was living in a world Of childish dreams... ♪

Here's two friends

that I'm so happy they're getting back together again,

and that's how I felt about that.

Those guys have a connection, and it's fucking awesome.

They're laughing, they're like two kids.

That's the relationship.

♪ I believe in the end ♪

♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪

♪ Two hearts Girl, get the job done ♪

♪ Two hearts Are better than one... ♪

Being in a band is like

being in the priesthood or the Mob.

These are organizations you can't leave.

Unless you're dead.

The whole mythology of the band of brothers.

♪ My special one ♪

♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪

♪ Two hearts Girl, get the job done ♪

♪ Two hearts Are better than one ♪

- Steve! - Yeah, Boss?

How the hell is this guy gonna be doing

a rock show the night before,

and had a 6:00 a.m. call the next day in New York?

We used to wait and say, "Is he gonna make it?"

Boom, he shows up, comes out

looking like Silvio,

- and we go to work. - Let's go act.

Van Zandt is creatively restless,

says his wife, Maureen, who also plays

his TV wife in The Sopranos.

You know, that's what's interesting about him,

that he's a... he's a real Renaissance man.

I know that sounds very cliche, but he is.

People ask me, uh,

"What have you been doing these last 20 years?"

And I say to them, "I've been putting all of my energy

into preserving this thing we call rock and roll."

And they said it wouldn't last.

The Underground Garage this week

begins its fifth year.

It started with his syndicated radio show

Little Steven's Underground Garage,

now heard on 200 stations.

He said, "I started going, city by city,

I would get a dinner

with the head of the radio station,

and then we'd talk Sopranos for an hour,"

he'd say "What's your slowest night?"

He wheeled and dealed to get this golden music

into the people's ears.

I remember being on the West Coast

listening to Underground Garage,

like, "These are the coolest bands I've ever heard."

My only desire was to be on that station as a band.

Your radio show, Little Steven's Underground Garage--

Yes, we are the only radio show with dancers.

Yeah, I noticed.

You know, it goes from punk rock, to surf,

to doo-wop, to psychedelic,

to, you know, modern garage stuff to old garage stuff,

and glam, and a bunch more I'm forgetting.

There's even reggae in there.

You think of all those bands that got played,

he was the first guy

to turn anybody on to the White Stripes.

I mean, that was him.

And it just steamrolled into this monster,

you know, groundbreaking thing.

Underground Garage gave Steven his freedom

to play whatever he wanted.

I can't say the name of the track,

because it's got a horrible word in it.

It's my station, we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Well, there you go.

I ask people, "How do you know my music?"

They say Underground Garage. I get that all the time.

It wasn't just the past.

It was like, "Here's the past,

and here's the future."

♪ When you're walking in LA ♪

♪ Everybody knows That you're down... ♪

He thought there was country music

being unrepresented,

and said "I got a second idea,

I wanna do this thing called Outlaw Country.

So Outlaw Country comes. Guy's got another channel.

You wanna make those connections.

You wanna connect dots,

like you do in music,

Like, how is Robert Johnson the same as

the White Stripes, or whoever?

I think he realizes that if

somebody doesn't keep this going,

it may die.

♪ Who will save Rock and roll... ♪

From his New York office, Van Zandt

also books underground garage concerts.

He was trying to save CBGB's.

He reunited some great bands

for the Garage Rock Festival.

And for all these events,

he'd bring friends from E Street and Sopranos.

I hope youse having a great time

listening to all this garage trash today.

I know I'm trying.

Steven has this... sheet of paper

with all of the things

that he wants to do.

I'm pretty sure he's done them all.

Like, it's just mind-blowing,

but I think he has kind of checked a box

on every one of those branches.

Steven's second act,

it's amazing how much he's accomplished.

Is that the teachers?

All of a sudden, he's involved in TV, radio,

education, he's building a record label.

Steven showed up to our gig,

he's like, "I want that record."

You can have that record.

It's all about music for him.

There's just a lot of bands these days,

and a lot of the bands came to us saying

"We need more help."

That was gonna be successful,

because people love rock.

♪ One, two three Good love ♪

♪ Good love ♪

He was on fire

about this Rascals thing.

The next thing I know, it's on Broadway,

which is tremendous.

He sees it historically,

'cause he is a historian.

He probably knows more about my music than I do.

It's every performer's dream to play Broadway.

That dream came true for me

when I wrote and co-directed Once Upon a Dream,

reuniting The Rascals.

♪ How can I be sure ♪

♪ I'll be sure ♪

♪ With you ♪

One of the police officers who was helping us

when we'd come out of the stage door,

pulls me aside and says,

"I've been working Broadway for 20 years,

and I have never seen an audience

come out of a show like this.

Cheering, singing,

smiles, happiness."

It took people to a place, in the audience,

that they never thought in their wildest dreams

they would ever get back to.

Musicians are very theatrical.

They become different people, you know.

When I stood on the stage of Carnegie Hall,

and announced Stevie's name,

I just felt so cool.

I mean, I just felt like my world went...

And I could be...

anything I wanted to be.

Now, this could only happen

to a guy like me.

And only happened in a town like this.

- Am I right?

♪ This is ♪

♪ My kind of town ♪

♪ Lilyhammer is... ♪

I started a record label,

and I start signing a bunch of Norwegian bands.

I'm producing one of them in Bergen, Norway.

The assistant engineer says, "There's a couple

in the lobby, they wanna say hello."

It's Eilif Skodvin and Anne Bjornstad,

and they say to me, "We're TV writers,

and we wrote a TV show for you."

Well,

you don't hear that every day.

Kind of out of the blue,

I get a call from Stevie's agent,

saying, "Will you take a call with Stevie Van Zandt?"

And I said, "Would I? Anyone ever say no to that?"

Very excited. No idea what they're gonna talk about.

I'm thinking "Lilyhammer."

Three episodes were complete, and I loved it.

Really what that was, like the first Netflix show.

I think that that digital world,

for a guy who is as off-beat

as, uh, Steve is,

will create opportunities.

The sheep head, it's my dinner.

I thought I was gonna have to give

Johnny Fontaine a movie part.

It's Gary U.S. Bonds!

♪ Should auld acquaintance Be forgot... ♪

- I'm impressed. - Yeah!

I got to direct the final episode,

of Lilyhammer,

and that was one of my scripts,

uh, and, uh...

you know, I had been talking to Bruce about, uh...

getting in somewhere.

We had been talking since Sopranos.

Angelina, Anthony.

What brings you here?

It's our brother, like always.

I was thrilled that he did it, because, uh,

people have been trying to get him to act for 30 years.

You know, I'm proud of that.

We've been friends a long time,

still, you know, he trusted me.

No Child Left Behind legislation

had devastated all the arts classes in America,

So I said how about we do

a music history curriculum instead.

Teacher asks the kid, "What are you listening to?"

And whatever they answer, you trace it back.

And he's not kidding.

He wants rock and roll taught in school.

You mustn't lose the history of music,

the history of anything.

Rock and roll is important, it's great to have

Steven out there making sure people know

how important it is, what it means,

and what a lifeline it can be.

He's almost like John the Baptist.

He's out there screaming there's a sacredness,

there's a holiness to rock.

This guy is doing 40 things at once,

and they're all complicated.

And they're all good.

He's a writer, he's a director,

he's a musician, he's a producer,

he's a businessman, he's a philanthropist,

and now he wrote an entire book

in prose, and it's very good.

The book has it all.

Sex, drugs, rock and roll in unequal measure,

and the true story behind the bandana.

♪ Could have been A politician ♪

♪ In a bulletproof Limousine ♪

♪ Could have made A lot of promises... ♪

I did invite Stevie to my 80th.

Bill Wyman invited us to his 80th birthday party.

Leo Green, his crazy promoter,

he says, "That's the same week as my blues festival.

Why don't you throw a band together

and headline one night?"

It sounded like fun.

I thought maybe I'll bring the horns back,

I'll do a handful of my own songs from the old days.

For almost 30 years,

Steven did not perform his own music.

He acted, he was performing with Bruce,

he was involved in a lot of different things,

but he didn't play any of his own songs

for a very long time.

♪ Could have been a lawyer ♪

♪ But my daddy taught me Right from wrong ♪

♪ That could have been The reason ♪

♪ Everything takes too long ♪

♪ I could have hung out In Hollywood ♪

♪ I could have Been a millionaire ♪

♪ Could have been big... ♪

As I'm-as I'm going through my old songs,

I couldn't get through them at first.

And my-my throat was tightening up,

I-I... I started to tear up.

And I went to Bruce, I said, "Bruce,

has anything like this happened to you?"

And he's like, "Yeah, I know why,

because you abandoned your children for 30 years."

It reminded me these songs have value.

I really shouldn't have abandoned them.

I was like, "Dude, yeah,

you should be doing this."

But, you know, who knew he was

gonna pile it on top of everything else he's doing?

I was overjoyed. He should have been on the road anyway,

'cause he loves the road.

He stays in the fine hotels,

and, you know, drinks that fine wine and all that.

My first manager over here.

Nobody messes with Big Mama. You're my baby.

Without you, I don't know where I'd be.

Oh, Stevie.

♪ Stop the world For a minute ♪

♪ Is that a tear I see in your eye? ♪

♪ This is your chance This is your moment, baby ♪

♪ Spread your wings It's time to fly... ♪

He's a great performer,

great songwriter,

great producer, great arranger,

and made a couple of great records

that ought to be out there.

He had gone quite a-quite a period

without using some of his greatest abilities.

Stevie called me up and said,

"I wanna get back into doing this."

I said, "Of course, man."

That was just one of the sweet things about Steve.

Is that he would think, "Can I?"

That he would think to make that call.

I don't think that would happen in other bands.

♪ Lighting the soulfire ♪

♪ Lighting the soulfire... ♪

I saw them in downtown LA.

Mike Stoller was the emcee,

which blew my mind.

Here they are, Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul.

♪ Ah yeah ♪

When I put on "Soulfire"

for the first time,

I have to be honest,

I had tears running down my face,

because it picked me up

and threw me back into 1977.

♪ Hey hey hey... ♪

He gets on with it.

Who goes on the road with 14 musicians?

Steven asked me,

"Can you find out how big the stage is

at the Cavern Club in Liverpool?"

And I went, "Uh, yeah, why?"

And he goes, "I wanna play there."

You are eternally part

of our wall of fame.

- Thank you.

It's your turn.

I love his enthusiasm,

and his passion for what we both love.

He lives it and he promotes it,

you know, with his radio station.

♪ Well, she was just 17 ♪

♪ If you know what I mean ♪

♪ And the way she looked... ♪

The thing I see with Stevie,

I think he's just following threads

that he really likes.

♪ So how could I dance ♪

♪ With another ♪

♪ Woo ♪

♪ I saw her Standing there... ♪

What he's doing, the tradition he's carrying on,

rock and soul, from Sam and Dave

to the Dave Clark Five to the Stones,

he's a witness.

♪ Well, we made a promise ♪

♪ We swore we'd Always remember ♪

♪ No retreat, baby ♪

♪ No surrender... ♪

It is 20 years now since we've been back.

It's crazy.

You know, it's, uh,

it feels like it's the way it ought to be.

♪ Baby, no surrender ♪

Come on, kid!

♪ No retreat, baby ♪

♪ No ♪

♪ Surrender ♪

Whoo!

Things have a way of coming around,

and working themselves out.

If people have the faith in...

in each other, it'll allow that to happen,

and the love, you know?

This is for Maureen.

She's been there

through the thick and the thin,

and that's pretty darn rare.

♪ I wanna protect you ♪

♪ I wanna connect with you ♪

♪ I wanna affect you ♪

♪ I wanna reflect you ♪

♪ I wanna be your happy end ♪

♪ We start all over again ♪

♪ I wanna feel The same pain you do ♪

♪ Dancing in the rain With you ♪

The two of them, they're both really lucky, you know?

And so is the dog.

And now he's back, there's no politics.

For the moment, you know?

I mean, he's still an activist.

It comes through in the spirit of the music,

and in the way that he plays it.

♪ Take it easy ♪

♪ Yeah yeah yeah... ♪

You know, Stevie told me many years ago

rock and roll kept him alive,

and I really do believe it's his religion.

♪ I don't know If you realize it or not ♪

♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪

♪ I don't know if you have Cable TV or not ♪

♪ But outside These walls right here ♪

♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪

♪ The world is going Fucking crazy... ♪

♪ And we're here tonight ♪

♪ For sanctuary ♪

♪ We're here tonight ♪

♪ For some Spiritual nourishment ♪

That's right.

We come to this cathedral

for spiritual nourishment.

And there ain't no spiritual nourishment

like real live music.

He has this passion

for rock and roll,

but Stevie goes beyond.

♪ It makes you Wanna say yeah ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah... ♪

A whole sort of

encyclopedic knowledge of music.

You know, um, I'd say I know quite a bit,

but he knows more.

♪ Something like that Uh-huh ♪

- ♪ Yeah yeah ♪ - ♪ Uh, huh ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah... ♪

The world isn't going to get

everything you do.

The success to me is that you had that vision,

and you followed through on it

and you went all the way with it.

♪ Yeah give me some drums Give me some drums ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ Yeah yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

♪ A little bit louder now ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Oh yeah ♪

♪ Yeah a little bit Louder, baby ♪

- ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Oh yeah ♪

- ♪ Oh yeah ♪ - ♪ Yeah ♪

♪ Everybody sing now ♪

♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪

♪ Everybody sing now ♪

♪ Yeah... ♪

The fact that he manages

to put these things together,

and then the impact that they have,

is a credit to his belief in what he does.

♪ Yeah yeah yeah ♪

♪ Oooh... ♪

At the end of the day, Steve's a true believer.

♪ Oh yeah ♪

♪ The old men make excuses ♪

♪ While the young men Bring the noise ♪

♪ And nothing ever changes ♪

♪ ‘Cause boys keep being boys ♪

♪ And the women Just surrendered ♪

♪ While Cinderella slept ♪

♪ Now they know they've waited Too long ♪

♪ There's nothing worth Stealing left ♪

♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪

♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪

♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ We give you politicians ♪

♪ And you call it choice ♪

♪ We let you do the voting ♪

♪ And you think You have a voice ♪

♪ We control the information ♪

♪ And you call yourself Informed ♪

♪ We give you our religion ♪

♪ And you believe it's yours ♪

♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪

♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪

♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ Breathe, Life is just a dream ♪

♪ Reach out and touch The screen ♪

♪ We're here to soothe you ♪

♪ Relax ♪

♪ It's better If you don't fight ♪

♪ Believe in the Flickering light ♪

♪ We can't afford to lose you ♪

♪ We offer you diversion ♪

♪ On any channel you choose ♪

♪ We give you bread And circus ♪

♪ And you still call it news ♪

♪ We orchestrate your hatred ♪

♪ It's as clear as white And black ♪

♪ We select your history ♪

♪ And you believe it's fact ♪

♪ Under the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ We supply the sins While you confess ♪

♪ You're seduced by The vampires' sweet caress ♪

♪ Behind the camouflage Of righteousness ♪

♪ Behind the camouflage... ♪