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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:00,805 --> 00:01:02,034 Joseph: 'The hoofs drew 2 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,303 nearer. 3 00:01:03,307 --> 00:01:04,240 "They had no time to find any" 4 00:01:04,242 --> 00:01:05,903 hiding place better than the 5 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:07,844 general darkness under the 6 00:01:07,845 --> 00:01:10,746 trees.. 7 00:01:10,748 --> 00:01:12,409 "Sam and Pippin crouched" 8 00:01:12,417 --> 00:01:13,578 behind a large tree-bole, 9 00:01:13,584 --> 00:01:14,949 while Frodo crept back a 10 00:01:14,952 --> 00:01:17,444 few yards towards the lane. 11 00:01:17,455 --> 00:01:18,251 "It showed grey and pale," 12 00:01:18,256 --> 00:01:20,884 a line of fading light 13 00:01:20,892 --> 00:01:23,657 through the woods. 14 00:01:23,661 --> 00:01:24,492 "Above it, the stars were" 15 00:01:24,495 --> 00:01:27,055 thick in the dim sky, 16 00:01:27,065 --> 00:01:30,695 but there was no moon. 17 00:01:30,702 --> 00:01:31,533 "The sound of hoofs" 18 00:01:31,536 --> 00:01:35,166 stopped. 19 00:01:35,173 --> 00:01:36,140 "As Frodo watched, he saw" 20 00:01:36,141 --> 00:01:37,904 something dark pass across 21 00:01:37,909 --> 00:01:38,842 the lighter space between 22 00:01:38,843 --> 00:01:44,714 2 trees, and then halt. 23 00:01:44,716 --> 00:01:45,649 "It looked like the black" 24 00:01:45,650 --> 00:01:47,311 shade of a horse led by 25 00:01:47,318 --> 00:01:51,721 a smaller black shadow. 26 00:01:51,723 --> 00:01:52,690 "The black shadow stood close" 27 00:01:52,691 --> 00:01:54,215 to the point where they had 28 00:01:54,225 --> 00:01:55,852 left the path, and it swayed 29 00:01:55,860 --> 00:02:00,388 from side to side. 30 00:02:00,398 --> 00:02:01,729 "Frodo thought he heard the" 31 00:02:01,733 --> 00:02:04,828 sound of snuffling. 32 00:02:04,836 --> 00:02:05,735 The shadow bent to the 33 00:02:05,737 --> 00:02:07,865 ground, and then began 34 00:02:07,872 --> 00:02:09,964 "to crawl towards him." 35 00:02:09,965 --> 00:02:10,864 These words are from the 36 00:02:10,866 --> 00:02:11,890 first book in "The Lord" 37 00:02:11,901 --> 00:02:13,733 of the Rings“trilogy, 38 00:02:13,736 --> 00:02:14,498 the most popular book 39 00:02:14,503 --> 00:02:16,733 of the 20th century. 40 00:02:16,739 --> 00:02:17,968 But did you know these 41 00:02:17,973 --> 00:02:19,964 books are Catholic? 42 00:02:19,975 --> 00:02:21,943 Hello, I'm Joseph Pearce and 43 00:02:21,944 --> 00:02:22,934 I'll be your guide as we 44 00:02:22,945 --> 00:02:24,412 explore "The Catholicism of." 45 00:02:24,413 --> 00:02:27,405 'The Lord of the Rings“. 46 00:03:03,177 --> 00:03:05,144 Joseph: "The Lord of the." 47 00:03:05,145 --> 00:03:06,044 "Rings," the most popular 48 00:03:06,046 --> 00:03:07,946 book of the 20th century and 49 00:03:07,948 --> 00:03:08,744 one of the greatest books 50 00:03:08,749 --> 00:03:10,410 ever written is a Catholic 51 00:03:10,417 --> 00:03:11,942 work, full to the brim with 52 00:03:11,952 --> 00:03:15,616 the truths of the Gospel, 53 00:03:15,622 --> 00:03:16,555 and there's no need to 54 00:03:16,557 --> 00:03:18,651 take my word for it. 55 00:03:18,659 --> 00:03:19,751 Here are the words of the 56 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,785 author himself. 57 00:03:28,531 --> 00:03:29,430 Tolkien: "The Lord of the." 58 00:03:29,432 --> 00:03:30,399 "Rings" is, of course, a 59 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,265 fundamentally religious and. 60 00:03:32,268 --> 00:03:34,202 Catholic work-unconsciously 61 00:03:34,203 --> 00:03:35,295 so at first, but consciously 62 00:03:35,304 --> 00:03:40,970 in the revision. 63 00:03:40,977 --> 00:03:42,410 Joseph: So there we 64 00:03:42,411 --> 00:03:43,879 have it, from the lips of. 65 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,905 J.R.R.Tolkien, the author 66 00:03:45,915 --> 00:03:47,781 himself, in words written 67 00:03:47,783 --> 00:03:50,309 to his Jesuit friend. 68 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:53,983 Fr. Robert Murray in 1953. 69 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:54,889 But how is it fundamentally 70 00:03:54,891 --> 00:03:57,519 religious and Catholic? 71 00:03:57,526 --> 00:03:58,721 There's no mention of Christ 72 00:03:58,728 --> 00:04:00,560 or His Church anywhere in 73 00:04:00,563 --> 00:04:02,554 the book, not least because 74 00:04:02,565 --> 00:04:03,589 the story takes place 75 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:05,397 thousands of years before 76 00:04:05,401 --> 00:04:06,334 Christ revealed Himself 77 00:04:06,335 --> 00:04:09,396 in the Person of Jesus. 78 00:04:09,405 --> 00:04:11,373 How can it be Catholic 79 00:04:11,374 --> 00:04:12,307 if there's no mention of 80 00:04:12,308 --> 00:04:16,074 Christ or Catholicism? 81 00:04:16,078 --> 00:04:17,978 This is the question that 82 00:04:17,980 --> 00:04:18,970 will be answered over the 83 00:04:18,981 --> 00:04:20,881 next hour as we explore the. 84 00:04:20,883 --> 00:04:22,544 Catholicism of "The Lord of" 85 00:04:22,551 --> 00:04:26,044 the Rings... 86 00:04:26,055 --> 00:04:27,352 First, however, let's learn 87 00:04:27,356 --> 00:04:28,448 a little more about Tolkien 88 00:04:28,457 --> 00:04:30,789 himself. 89 00:04:30,793 --> 00:04:31,954 He was born in Bloemfontein, 90 00:04:31,961 --> 00:04:34,259 in South Africa, on 91 00:04:34,263 --> 00:04:36,823 3 January, 1892, and was 92 00:04:36,832 --> 00:04:39,426 baptized 4 weeks later 93 00:04:39,435 --> 00:04:40,459 in the local Anglican 94 00:04:40,469 --> 00:04:42,096 cathedral. 95 00:04:42,104 --> 00:04:42,969 Both his parents were 96 00:04:42,972 --> 00:04:44,133 English, and the family 97 00:04:44,140 --> 00:04:45,437 were living in South Africa 98 00:04:45,441 --> 00:04:46,806 because of his father's 99 00:04:46,809 --> 00:04:48,243 position as manager of the 100 00:04:48,244 --> 00:04:49,905 Bloemfontein branch of the. 101 00:04:49,912 --> 00:04:53,405 Bank of Africa. 102 00:04:53,416 --> 00:04:54,577 Shortly after Tolkien's 103 00:04:54,583 --> 00:04:55,880 3rd birthday his mother 104 00:04:55,885 --> 00:04:57,216 returned to England, taking. 105 00:04:57,219 --> 00:04:58,414 Tolkien and his younger 106 00:04:58,421 --> 00:05:01,721 brother Hilary with her. 107 00:05:01,724 --> 00:05:03,123 His father, unable to vacate 108 00:05:03,125 --> 00:05:04,889 his post at the bank, was 109 00:05:04,894 --> 00:05:05,861 forced to remain behind, 110 00:05:05,862 --> 00:05:07,659 intending to follow his wife 111 00:05:07,663 --> 00:05:09,062 and children to England as 112 00:05:09,065 --> 00:05:10,123 soon as the opportunity 113 00:05:10,132 --> 00:05:13,830 arose. 114 00:05:13,836 --> 00:05:14,667 But tragedy struck the. 115 00:05:14,670 --> 00:05:16,229 Young family. 116 00:05:16,238 --> 00:05:17,728 Arthur Tolkien contracted 117 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:19,401 rheumatic fever and died 118 00:05:19,408 --> 00:05:22,400 in Africa. 119 00:05:32,048 --> 00:05:33,174 The death of her husband 120 00:05:33,183 --> 00:05:34,912 plunged Mabel Tolkien into 121 00:05:34,918 --> 00:05:36,716 poverty. 122 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,210 With 2 young sons, she 123 00:05:38,221 --> 00:05:39,154 relied on financial 124 00:05:39,155 --> 00:05:41,715 assistance from her family. 125 00:05:41,725 --> 00:05:42,817 Then in 1900, when Tolkien 126 00:05:42,826 --> 00:05:44,885 was 8 years old, Mabel. 127 00:05:44,894 --> 00:05:46,328 Tolkien was received into 128 00:05:46,329 --> 00:05:48,957 the Catholic Church. 129 00:05:48,965 --> 00:05:50,330 Furthermore, she began to 130 00:05:50,333 --> 00:05:51,767 instruct her sons in the. 131 00:05:51,768 --> 00:05:53,634 Catholic religion and they 132 00:05:53,637 --> 00:05:55,036 were duly received into the. 133 00:05:55,038 --> 00:05:57,666 Church also. 134 00:05:57,674 --> 00:05:58,903 Her family reacted with 135 00:05:58,908 --> 00:06:01,309 fury to her conversion, 136 00:06:01,311 --> 00:06:02,278 withdrawing their financial 137 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,439 assistance and plunging her 138 00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:05,471 and her sons from poverty 139 00:06:05,482 --> 00:06:09,544 to penury. 140 00:06:09,552 --> 00:06:10,917 The strain affected her 141 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,684 health adversely and Tolkien 142 00:06:12,689 --> 00:06:13,656 was convinced that his 143 00:06:13,657 --> 00:06:15,318 mother's early death, in 144 00:06:15,325 --> 00:06:16,815 1904 when he was only 12 145 00:06:16,826 --> 00:06:18,624 years old, was due to the 146 00:06:18,628 --> 00:06:20,255 persecution she experienced 147 00:06:20,263 --> 00:06:21,458 following her conversion to. 148 00:06:21,464 --> 00:06:24,126 Catholicism. 149 00:06:24,127 --> 00:06:25,253 Tolkien: My own dear mother 150 00:06:25,261 --> 00:06:28,094 was a martyr indeed, and it 151 00:06:28,097 --> 00:06:29,394 was not to everybody that. 152 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:32,699 God grants so easy a way to. 153 00:06:32,702 --> 00:06:34,761 His great gifts as He did 154 00:06:34,771 --> 00:06:36,933 to Hilary and myself, 155 00:06:36,940 --> 00:06:38,339 giving us a mother who 156 00:06:38,341 --> 00:06:41,003 killed herself with labor 157 00:06:41,010 --> 00:06:42,944 and trouble to ensure us 158 00:06:42,946 --> 00:06:45,379 keeping the faith. 159 00:06:45,380 --> 00:06:46,404 Joseph: On another occasion, 160 00:06:46,415 --> 00:06:47,314 when confronted with the 161 00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:48,579 prospect of some of his own 162 00:06:48,584 --> 00:06:49,517 children's neglect of their 163 00:06:49,518 --> 00:06:51,179 faith, Tolkien remembered 164 00:06:51,186 --> 00:06:53,348 his mother's sanctity and 165 00:06:53,355 --> 00:06:54,617 loyalty to the faith. 166 00:06:54,618 --> 00:06:55,608 Tolkien: When I think of my 167 00:06:55,619 --> 00:06:57,917 mother's death... worn out 168 00:06:57,921 --> 00:06:59,082 with persecution, poverty, 169 00:06:59,089 --> 00:07:00,682 and largely consequent 170 00:07:00,691 --> 00:07:03,183 disease, in the effort to 171 00:07:03,193 --> 00:07:04,786 hand on to us small boys the 172 00:07:04,795 --> 00:07:07,696 faith, and remember the tiny 173 00:07:07,698 --> 00:07:10,827 bedroom she shared with us 174 00:07:10,834 --> 00:07:12,063 in rented rooms in a 175 00:07:12,069 --> 00:07:15,630 postman's cottage in Rednal, 176 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:16,606 where she died alone, 177 00:07:16,607 --> 00:07:22,044 too ill for Viaticum, 178 00:07:22,045 --> 00:07:23,535 I find it very hard and 179 00:07:23,547 --> 00:07:26,744 bitter, when my children 180 00:07:26,750 --> 00:07:32,814 turn away. 181 00:07:32,823 --> 00:07:33,915 Joseph: After their mother's 182 00:07:33,924 --> 00:07:35,414 death, Fr. Francis Morgan 183 00:07:35,425 --> 00:07:36,517 of the Birmingham Oratory 184 00:07:36,526 --> 00:07:39,154 became the legal guardian 185 00:07:39,162 --> 00:07:41,563 of Tolkien and his brother. 186 00:07:41,565 --> 00:07:43,055 Tolkien would describe. 187 00:07:43,066 --> 00:07:44,329 Fr. Morgan as, "A guardian" 188 00:07:44,334 --> 00:07:46,802 who had been a father to me, 189 00:07:46,803 --> 00:07:49,864 "more than most real fathers." 190 00:07:49,873 --> 00:07:50,772 Tolkien went on to study. 191 00:07:50,774 --> 00:07:52,572 Classics at Oxford, 192 00:07:52,576 --> 00:07:53,407 receiving his degree in 193 00:07:53,410 --> 00:07:54,536 1915, before enlisting 194 00:07:54,544 --> 00:07:57,775 in the army. 195 00:07:57,781 --> 00:07:58,714 In the following year he 196 00:07:58,715 --> 00:08:00,479 married his childhood 197 00:08:00,484 --> 00:08:02,612 sweetheart; Edith Bra“, 198 00:08:02,619 --> 00:08:03,848 and 2 months afterwards, 199 00:08:03,854 --> 00:08:05,754 he sailed to France to take 200 00:08:05,756 --> 00:08:06,723 part in what he described 201 00:08:06,724 --> 00:08:08,521 as the animal horror and 202 00:08:08,525 --> 00:08:10,653 carnage of the Battle 203 00:08:10,661 --> 00:08:13,426 of the Somme, 204 00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:14,522 one of the most horrific 205 00:08:14,531 --> 00:08:15,965 battles in human history. 206 00:08:15,966 --> 00:08:17,695 It was also around this time 207 00:08:17,701 --> 00:08:19,669 that he began to invent 208 00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:20,796 the first of his Elvish 209 00:08:20,804 --> 00:08:22,670 languages, a hobby that 210 00:08:22,673 --> 00:08:24,801 would become the creative 211 00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:27,368 passion of his life, 212 00:08:27,377 --> 00:08:28,401 leading eventually to 213 00:08:28,412 --> 00:08:30,073 the publication of his 214 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,275 masterpiece. 215 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:42,283 John, the first of the 4. 216 00:08:42,284 --> 00:08:43,911 Tolkien children, who would 217 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:44,977 later become a Jesuit 218 00:08:44,987 --> 00:08:48,287 priest, was born in 1917. 219 00:08:48,290 --> 00:08:49,519 Their 2nd son, Michael, 220 00:08:49,525 --> 00:08:52,187 followed in 1920; 221 00:08:52,194 --> 00:08:54,356 Christopher in 1924; And 222 00:08:54,363 --> 00:08:55,489 Priscilla, their only 223 00:08:55,497 --> 00:08:57,261 daughter and final child, 224 00:08:57,266 --> 00:09:00,668 was born in 1929. 225 00:09:00,669 --> 00:09:01,932 It was during this period 226 00:09:01,937 --> 00:09:03,098 that Tolkien, who was now 227 00:09:03,105 --> 00:09:04,163 teaching at Oxford. 228 00:09:04,173 --> 00:09:05,038 University, first met. 229 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,533 C. S. Lewis. 230 00:09:08,544 --> 00:09:10,511 The 2 men were destined to 231 00:09:10,512 --> 00:09:11,445 form the most important 232 00:09:11,446 --> 00:09:12,379 literary friendship of the 233 00:09:12,381 --> 00:09:13,906 20th century, in spite of 234 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:15,281 their differences when 235 00:09:15,284 --> 00:09:18,049 they first met. 236 00:09:18,053 --> 00:09:19,043 Tolkien was a devout. 237 00:09:19,054 --> 00:09:21,250 Catholic, whereas Lewis, 238 00:09:21,256 --> 00:09:22,314 born in the sectarian 239 00:09:22,324 --> 00:09:24,486 atmosphere of Protestant 240 00:09:24,493 --> 00:09:25,324 Belfast, in Northern 241 00:09:25,327 --> 00:09:26,920 Ireland, had been taught 242 00:09:26,929 --> 00:09:28,863 from childhood not to trust 243 00:09:28,864 --> 00:09:30,025 "papists," to employ the 244 00:09:30,032 --> 00:09:31,830 derogatory term with which. 245 00:09:31,833 --> 00:09:33,494 Ulster Protestants expressed 246 00:09:33,502 --> 00:09:34,367 their contempt for their. 247 00:09:34,369 --> 00:09:37,999 Catholic neighbors. 248 00:09:38,006 --> 00:09:39,064 Lewis: On my first coming 249 00:09:39,074 --> 00:09:40,098 into the world I had been 250 00:09:40,108 --> 00:09:42,099 implicitly warned never to 251 00:09:42,110 --> 00:09:44,204 trust a papist, and at my 252 00:09:44,213 --> 00:09:45,738 first coming into the 253 00:09:45,747 --> 00:09:46,976 English Faculty explicitly 254 00:09:46,982 --> 00:09:47,915 never to trust a 255 00:09:47,916 --> 00:09:50,146 philologist. 256 00:09:50,152 --> 00:09:54,680 Tolkien was both. 257 00:09:54,690 --> 00:09:55,919 Joseph: It would seem, 258 00:09:55,924 --> 00:09:57,756 therefore, that a friendship 259 00:09:57,759 --> 00:09:58,954 between Tolkien and Lewis 260 00:09:58,961 --> 00:10:00,928 was not very likely. 261 00:10:00,929 --> 00:10:02,488 What brought them together 262 00:10:02,497 --> 00:10:04,124 was a shared love for 263 00:10:04,132 --> 00:10:05,861 mythology, and particularly 264 00:10:05,867 --> 00:10:10,100 a love for Norse mythology. 265 00:10:10,105 --> 00:10:11,231 They became good friends 266 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,298 after Lewis joined an 267 00:10:12,307 --> 00:10:14,173 informal club that had been 268 00:10:14,176 --> 00:10:15,837 founded by Tolkien with the 269 00:10:15,844 --> 00:10:16,777 single purpose of reading 270 00:10:16,778 --> 00:10:18,143 the Norse myths in their 271 00:10:18,146 --> 00:10:20,843 original language. 272 00:10:20,849 --> 00:10:21,975 Lewis had long since 273 00:10:21,984 --> 00:10:23,543 lapsed from his childhood. 274 00:10:23,552 --> 00:10:24,713 Protestantism and had 275 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,621 become an atheist. 276 00:10:27,623 --> 00:10:29,921 And yet in September 1931, 277 00:10:29,925 --> 00:10:30,824 a long conversation between. 278 00:10:30,826 --> 00:10:33,420 Tolkien and Lewis on the 279 00:10:33,428 --> 00:10:35,396 subject of myth would be 280 00:10:35,397 --> 00:10:37,024 instrumental in Lewis' 281 00:10:37,032 --> 00:10:39,399 conversion to Christianity. 282 00:10:39,401 --> 00:10:42,098 It all began when Lewis 283 00:10:42,104 --> 00:10:43,629 provoked Tolkien by 284 00:10:43,639 --> 00:10:44,936 indicating that myths 285 00:10:44,940 --> 00:10:49,776 were lies. 286 00:10:49,778 --> 00:10:50,609 Tolkien: Including in fairy 287 00:10:50,612 --> 00:10:51,704 stories, which I think is 288 00:10:51,713 --> 00:10:52,976 rather ridiculous. 289 00:10:52,981 --> 00:10:54,346 After all, the magic of 290 00:10:54,349 --> 00:10:55,407 myths or fairy stories is 291 00:10:55,417 --> 00:10:56,782 not an end in itself. 292 00:10:56,785 --> 00:10:57,752 It exists to serve virtue 293 00:10:57,753 --> 00:10:59,482 and satisfies certain 294 00:10:59,488 --> 00:11:05,426 primordial human desires. 295 00:11:05,427 --> 00:11:07,293 Lewis: But myths are 296 00:11:07,296 --> 00:11:08,627 fiction. 297 00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:09,620 The stories they tell 298 00:11:09,631 --> 00:11:10,598 aren't true. 299 00:11:10,599 --> 00:11:11,589 They're lies, and therefore 300 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:12,431 worthless, even though 301 00:11:12,434 --> 00:11:14,300 breathed through silver. 302 00:11:14,303 --> 00:11:16,635 They're just beautiful lies. 303 00:11:16,638 --> 00:11:17,469 You can't seriously believe 304 00:11:17,472 --> 00:11:20,237 in fairy stories. 305 00:11:20,242 --> 00:11:21,266 Tolkien: Why not? 306 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:22,107 I can. 307 00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:23,544 In fact, I do. 308 00:11:23,545 --> 00:11:24,512 Lewis: But this is 309 00:11:24,513 --> 00:11:25,344 preposterous. 310 00:11:25,347 --> 00:11:26,280 How can you seriously 311 00:11:26,281 --> 00:11:27,715 believe a lie? 312 00:11:27,716 --> 00:11:28,581 Tolkien: Oh Jack, myths are 313 00:11:28,583 --> 00:11:29,846 not lies. 314 00:11:29,851 --> 00:11:30,818 In fact they're the opposite 315 00:11:30,819 --> 00:11:32,412 of a lie. 316 00:11:32,421 --> 00:11:33,354 Myths convey the essential 317 00:11:33,355 --> 00:11:34,686 truth, the primal reality of 318 00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:36,590 life itself. 319 00:11:36,591 --> 00:11:39,652 Lewis: Go on. 320 00:11:39,661 --> 00:11:40,958 Tolkien: Well, you see, we 321 00:11:40,962 --> 00:11:42,327 have been duped into using 322 00:11:42,331 --> 00:11:44,356 the word myth as being 323 00:11:44,366 --> 00:11:46,164 synonymous with a lie 324 00:11:46,168 --> 00:11:47,101 because we have been duped 325 00:11:47,102 --> 00:11:48,331 into accepting the first 326 00:11:48,337 --> 00:11:50,965 real lie of materialism. 327 00:11:50,972 --> 00:11:52,462 Lewis: And what is that? 328 00:11:52,474 --> 00:11:53,999 Tolkien: That is the hideous 329 00:11:54,009 --> 00:11:55,408 claim that there is no 330 00:11:55,410 --> 00:11:56,639 supernatural order to 331 00:11:56,645 --> 00:11:59,342 the universe. 332 00:11:59,348 --> 00:12:00,406 The materialists have 333 00:12:00,415 --> 00:12:01,905 imprisoned us in a world of 334 00:12:01,917 --> 00:12:03,681 mere matter, of physical 335 00:12:03,685 --> 00:12:07,019 facts divorced from and 336 00:12:07,022 --> 00:12:07,887 devoid of metaphysical 337 00:12:07,889 --> 00:12:10,153 truth. 338 00:12:10,158 --> 00:12:11,091 Well, I say that they're 339 00:12:11,093 --> 00:12:12,254 lying... I say that they are 340 00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:14,092 the ones who have come up 341 00:12:14,096 --> 00:12:16,030 with a false myth. 342 00:12:16,031 --> 00:12:17,965 Their world doesn't exist. 343 00:12:17,966 --> 00:12:18,990 It's merely a figment of 344 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,399 their imagination. 345 00:12:20,402 --> 00:12:21,392 We're fine. 346 00:12:21,403 --> 00:12:22,234 However, there's a problem. 347 00:12:22,237 --> 00:12:23,704 The problem is, they have 348 00:12:23,705 --> 00:12:24,934 convinced us that it 349 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:26,237 is true. 350 00:12:26,241 --> 00:12:27,538 They have made us believe 351 00:12:27,542 --> 00:12:29,670 that this is all there is... 352 00:12:29,678 --> 00:12:31,237 3 dimensions, 5 senses, 353 00:12:31,246 --> 00:12:32,543 4 walls. 354 00:12:32,547 --> 00:12:35,516 Lewis: Isn't it? 355 00:12:35,517 --> 00:12:36,643 Tolkien: Most emphatically 356 00:12:36,651 --> 00:12:37,709 not! 357 00:12:37,719 --> 00:12:39,483 Jack, the 4 walls of 358 00:12:39,488 --> 00:12:40,853 materialism are the 4 walls 359 00:12:40,856 --> 00:12:42,722 of a prison, and the 360 00:12:42,724 --> 00:12:43,520 materialists are our 361 00:12:43,525 --> 00:12:45,220 jailers. 362 00:12:45,227 --> 00:12:46,353 Don't you see, they've put 363 00:12:46,361 --> 00:12:47,851 us in a prison, a prison of 364 00:12:47,863 --> 00:12:50,127 4 walls? 365 00:12:50,132 --> 00:12:51,099 They don't want us to see 366 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:52,658 what's beyond those walls. 367 00:12:52,667 --> 00:12:53,532 They don't want us to 368 00:12:53,535 --> 00:12:55,299 discover what lies outside 369 00:12:55,303 --> 00:12:56,964 their narrow philosophy. 370 00:12:56,972 --> 00:12:59,066 Worse than that, they think 371 00:12:59,074 --> 00:13:00,303 that any attempt to escape 372 00:13:00,308 --> 00:13:01,207 from the prison is an act 373 00:13:01,209 --> 00:13:02,938 of treason. 374 00:13:02,944 --> 00:13:04,673 Lewis: Why, wouldn't it be 375 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,670 an act of treason against 376 00:13:06,681 --> 00:13:07,773 rationality to believe 377 00:13:07,783 --> 00:13:10,411 otherwise? 378 00:13:10,419 --> 00:13:11,978 Tolkien: Now Jack, think 379 00:13:11,987 --> 00:13:14,718 for a moment, how can it be 380 00:13:14,723 --> 00:13:17,522 wrong for a prisoner to 381 00:13:17,526 --> 00:13:19,221 think of things that exist 382 00:13:19,227 --> 00:13:23,095 other than walls or jailers? 383 00:13:23,098 --> 00:13:24,065 Doesn't the fact that the 384 00:13:24,066 --> 00:13:25,590 prisoner is able to think of 385 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,035 things outside the walls, 386 00:13:28,036 --> 00:13:29,936 suggest that perhaps things 387 00:13:29,938 --> 00:13:33,238 do exist outside the walls? 388 00:13:33,241 --> 00:13:34,072 After all, if the prison 389 00:13:34,075 --> 00:13:36,043 really all there is, how are 390 00:13:36,044 --> 00:13:37,569 we able to picture things 391 00:13:37,579 --> 00:13:39,547 that exist beyond the. 392 00:13:39,548 --> 00:13:42,711 Prison? 393 00:13:42,717 --> 00:13:43,684 And this is where myths come 394 00:13:43,685 --> 00:13:45,449 in, you see. 395 00:13:45,454 --> 00:13:46,785 Myths exist outside the 396 00:13:46,788 --> 00:13:49,450 prison. 397 00:13:49,458 --> 00:13:52,086 Myths allow us to escape 398 00:13:52,093 --> 00:13:54,653 from the prison, or if we're 399 00:13:54,663 --> 00:13:56,757 not able to escape, at the 400 00:13:56,765 --> 00:13:58,028 very least, they allow us to 401 00:13:58,033 --> 00:14:00,832 catch a fleeting but oh-so- 402 00:14:00,836 --> 00:14:02,201 powerful glimpse of the 403 00:14:02,204 --> 00:14:04,332 beauty that lies beyond 404 00:14:04,339 --> 00:14:05,339 the walls. 405 00:14:05,628 --> 00:14:06,459 Lewis: But what is it that 406 00:14:06,462 --> 00:14:08,692 we're meant to be glimpsing? 407 00:14:08,697 --> 00:14:09,562 Tolkien: Well, don't you 408 00:14:09,565 --> 00:14:11,090 see? 409 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:11,931 The truth, Jack. 410 00:14:11,934 --> 00:14:12,696 Myths show us a fleeting 411 00:14:12,701 --> 00:14:14,168 glimpse of the truth itself. 412 00:14:14,169 --> 00:14:17,195 Lewis: Truth? Truth! 413 00:14:17,206 --> 00:14:18,105 What on earth is this truth 414 00:14:18,107 --> 00:14:19,438 that you're talking about? 415 00:14:19,441 --> 00:14:21,876 Tolkien: Ah! 416 00:14:21,877 --> 00:14:23,606 "Quid est veritas; 417 00:14:23,612 --> 00:14:26,741 What is truth?" 418 00:14:26,749 --> 00:14:27,648 I'm glad to see that 419 00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:28,583 you've entered into the 420 00:14:28,584 --> 00:14:29,745 spirit of the myth, Jack! 421 00:14:29,752 --> 00:14:30,617 You've just cast yourself 422 00:14:30,619 --> 00:14:31,950 into the role of Pilate. 423 00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:33,217 Lewis: Pilate? 424 00:14:33,222 --> 00:14:37,022 Oh, I see! 425 00:14:37,026 --> 00:14:37,891 You're able to believe in 426 00:14:37,893 --> 00:14:38,985 the lesser myths because 427 00:14:38,994 --> 00:14:39,825 you've already accepted 428 00:14:39,828 --> 00:14:41,762 the big 1. 429 00:14:41,764 --> 00:14:42,526 Once you believe the big 430 00:14:42,531 --> 00:14:44,693 myth, the lie of Christ, 431 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:45,599 it's easier to accept the 432 00:14:45,601 --> 00:14:48,593 smaller ones. 433 00:14:48,604 --> 00:14:49,503 All right, Toilers... 434 00:14:49,505 --> 00:14:50,802 I'll play the role of Pilate. 435 00:14:50,806 --> 00:14:52,296 I'll wash my hands 436 00:14:52,308 --> 00:14:55,278 of the whole nonsense! 437 00:15:03,652 --> 00:15:04,551 Tolkien: Well, Jack, you may 438 00:15:04,553 --> 00:15:05,577 be able to wash your hands, 439 00:15:05,588 --> 00:15:06,487 but your mind is still 440 00:15:06,488 --> 00:15:08,115 mudded. 441 00:15:08,123 --> 00:15:08,988 You're not thinking clearly 442 00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:10,083 at all, old chap. 443 00:15:10,092 --> 00:15:12,424 You're acting as if myths 444 00:15:12,428 --> 00:15:14,419 are mere arbitrary 445 00:15:14,430 --> 00:15:15,693 inventions of fiction, 446 00:15:15,698 --> 00:15:18,326 as if we pulled them 447 00:15:18,334 --> 00:15:19,961 out of thin air. 448 00:15:19,969 --> 00:15:22,028 But what you don't 449 00:15:22,037 --> 00:15:23,095 understand is that we make 450 00:15:23,105 --> 00:15:24,231 things by the law in which 451 00:15:24,239 --> 00:15:27,231 we are made. 452 00:15:27,242 --> 00:15:29,142 We create because 453 00:15:29,144 --> 00:15:31,738 we are created. 454 00:15:31,747 --> 00:15:34,876 Creativity, imagination 455 00:15:34,883 --> 00:15:39,719 is God's imageness in us. 456 00:15:39,722 --> 00:15:41,850 We tell stories because. 457 00:15:41,857 --> 00:15:45,725 God is a Story Teller. 458 00:15:45,728 --> 00:15:46,718 In fact, He's THE Story. 459 00:15:46,729 --> 00:15:49,391 Teller. 460 00:15:49,398 --> 00:15:50,729 We tell our stories with 461 00:15:50,733 --> 00:15:52,428 words. 462 00:15:52,434 --> 00:15:53,868 He tells His story with 463 00:15:53,869 --> 00:15:55,564 history. 464 00:15:55,571 --> 00:15:56,561 The facts of history are. 465 00:15:56,572 --> 00:15:57,869 His words, and providence 466 00:15:57,873 --> 00:16:00,638 is His storyline. 467 00:16:00,643 --> 00:16:01,769 Lewis: Are you suggesting 468 00:16:01,777 --> 00:16:03,244 that all of history, that 469 00:16:03,245 --> 00:16:04,235 everything around us is all 470 00:16:04,246 --> 00:16:09,412 part of some divine myth? 471 00:16:09,418 --> 00:16:12,353 Tolkien: We're all part of. 472 00:16:12,354 --> 00:16:15,051 His story. 473 00:16:15,057 --> 00:16:16,024 This very conversation is 474 00:16:16,025 --> 00:16:20,656 part of His story. 475 00:16:20,663 --> 00:16:21,562 Lewis: But perhaps it isn't. 476 00:16:21,563 --> 00:16:22,325 His story. 477 00:16:22,331 --> 00:16:23,355 Perhaps it's only your 478 00:16:23,365 --> 00:16:24,230 story. 479 00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:25,792 How can you know that your 480 00:16:25,801 --> 00:16:26,597 story, the story that you 481 00:16:26,602 --> 00:16:27,569 believe, the Christian 482 00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:28,661 story, is any more real 483 00:16:28,671 --> 00:16:29,866 than any other stories? 484 00:16:29,872 --> 00:16:31,101 Tolkien: But don't you see, 485 00:16:31,106 --> 00:16:32,164 it isn't my story, it's. 486 00:16:32,174 --> 00:16:33,039 His story. 487 00:16:33,042 --> 00:16:33,873 You're acting as if. 488 00:16:33,876 --> 00:16:34,775 Christianity is one myth 489 00:16:34,777 --> 00:16:35,676 among many. 490 00:16:35,678 --> 00:16:36,804 It's not. 491 00:16:36,812 --> 00:16:38,041 It's the true myth. 492 00:16:38,047 --> 00:16:38,946 Christianity really 493 00:16:38,947 --> 00:16:40,073 happened, Jesus really 494 00:16:40,082 --> 00:16:41,015 existed, so did Pilate. 495 00:16:41,016 --> 00:16:42,483 And yet, it is this true 496 00:16:42,484 --> 00:16:43,383 story that makes sense of 497 00:16:43,385 --> 00:16:44,352 all the other stories. 498 00:16:44,353 --> 00:16:45,684 It is the archetype, it is 499 00:16:45,688 --> 00:16:47,918 the story in which all the 500 00:16:47,923 --> 00:16:49,186 other stories have their 501 00:16:49,191 --> 00:16:50,590 source, and the story to 502 00:16:50,592 --> 00:16:51,889 which all the other stories 503 00:16:51,894 --> 00:16:53,191 point. 504 00:16:53,195 --> 00:16:55,254 It has everything. 505 00:16:55,264 --> 00:16:56,254 It has catastrophe and its 506 00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:57,460 opposite, what we might 507 00:16:57,466 --> 00:16:59,901 call eu-catastrophe. 508 00:16:59,902 --> 00:17:01,028 It has the joy of the happy 509 00:17:01,036 --> 00:17:02,401 ending, the sudden joyous 510 00:17:02,404 --> 00:17:03,838 turn and the story that is 511 00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:06,365 essential to all myths. 512 00:17:06,375 --> 00:17:08,434 It has to a sublime degree 513 00:17:08,444 --> 00:17:11,175 this joy of deliverance, 514 00:17:11,180 --> 00:17:14,081 this Evangelium, this 515 00:17:14,083 --> 00:17:16,916 fleeting glimpse of the real. 516 00:17:16,919 --> 00:17:20,048 Joy to which all other joys 517 00:17:20,055 --> 00:17:23,025 are but a distant echo. 518 00:17:34,636 --> 00:17:35,398 Lewis: Toilers, what did you 519 00:17:35,404 --> 00:17:36,633 mean by catastrophe and 520 00:17:36,638 --> 00:17:38,970 eu-catastrophe? 521 00:17:38,974 --> 00:17:39,998 Tolkien: Well, for example, 522 00:17:40,008 --> 00:17:41,203 it has the catastrophe 523 00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:42,735 of the fall and the 524 00:17:42,745 --> 00:17:43,678 eu-catastrophe of the 525 00:17:43,679 --> 00:17:45,579 redemption; It has the 526 00:17:45,581 --> 00:17:46,480 catastrophe of the. 527 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:48,075 Crucifixion and the 528 00:17:48,083 --> 00:17:49,175 eu-catastrophe of the. 529 00:17:49,184 --> 00:17:51,516 Resurrection. 530 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,284 It has everything that man's 531 00:17:53,288 --> 00:17:55,313 heart desires because it is 532 00:17:55,324 --> 00:17:56,849 being told by the One Who is 533 00:17:56,859 --> 00:17:57,826 the Fulfillment of desire 534 00:17:57,827 --> 00:18:00,727 itself. 535 00:18:00,729 --> 00:18:01,992 It is a story that begins 536 00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:06,127 and ends in joy. 537 00:18:06,135 --> 00:18:07,034 Lewis: But just because a 538 00:18:07,035 --> 00:18:07,934 story brings joy, it doesn't 539 00:18:07,936 --> 00:18:08,903 necessarily follow that 540 00:18:08,904 --> 00:18:10,804 it's true. 541 00:18:10,806 --> 00:18:12,797 There are many joyful myths. 542 00:18:12,808 --> 00:18:13,832 They all seem rather flimsy 543 00:18:13,842 --> 00:18:18,109 to me and ring rather false. 544 00:18:18,113 --> 00:18:20,309 Tolkien: And yet this story 545 00:18:20,315 --> 00:18:21,339 has the inner consistency 546 00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:23,842 of reality. 547 00:18:23,852 --> 00:18:25,013 There is no tale ever told 548 00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:26,419 that men would rather find 549 00:18:26,421 --> 00:18:28,219 was true, and none which 550 00:18:28,223 --> 00:18:30,351 so many skeptical men have 551 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,054 accepted as true on its 552 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:34,995 own merits. 553 00:18:34,997 --> 00:18:36,260 Lewis: Perhaps it's just a 554 00:18:36,265 --> 00:18:41,260 very well-written artifice. 555 00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:42,101 Tolkien: This story has the 556 00:18:42,104 --> 00:18:43,629 supremely convincing tone of 557 00:18:43,639 --> 00:18:47,303 primary art, not fiction, 558 00:18:47,309 --> 00:18:52,076 but of creation, and to 559 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,209 reject this leads either to 560 00:18:55,217 --> 00:18:59,176 darkness or to wrath, and in 561 00:18:59,188 --> 00:19:00,246 my own life it has led me 562 00:19:00,255 --> 00:19:03,225 from darkness to light. 563 00:19:10,699 --> 00:19:13,668 Lewis: Astonishing! 564 00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:17,537 Toilers, you astonish me. 565 00:19:17,539 --> 00:19:20,509 You absolutely astonish me. 566 00:19:25,047 --> 00:19:26,037 Joseph: This conversation 567 00:19:26,048 --> 00:19:26,947 made such an impact on. 568 00:19:26,949 --> 00:19:28,610 C. S. Lewis that within a 569 00:19:28,617 --> 00:19:30,107 few weeks he was declaring 570 00:19:30,118 --> 00:19:31,847 to his friends that he had 571 00:19:31,854 --> 00:19:37,623 become a Christian. 572 00:19:37,626 --> 00:19:38,525 Tolkien: You may not believe 573 00:19:38,527 --> 00:19:40,494 this, but I've definitely 574 00:19:40,495 --> 00:19:41,929 started to believe in 575 00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:46,333 Christ, in Christianity, and 576 00:19:46,335 --> 00:19:48,099 the long night talk with. 577 00:19:48,103 --> 00:19:50,162 Tolkien had a great deal 578 00:19:50,172 --> 00:19:52,504 to do with it last week. 579 00:19:52,507 --> 00:19:55,408 Let me try to explain. 580 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,174 The story of Christ is a 581 00:19:57,179 --> 00:20:00,171 true myth, a myth working on 582 00:20:00,182 --> 00:20:01,445 us in the same way as the 583 00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:02,975 others, but with this 584 00:20:02,985 --> 00:20:04,214 tremendous difference that 585 00:20:04,219 --> 00:20:06,711 it really happened, and one 586 00:20:06,722 --> 00:20:07,689 must be content to accept it 587 00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:10,590 in the same way, remembering 588 00:20:10,592 --> 00:20:12,356 that this is God's myth, 589 00:20:12,361 --> 00:20:13,294 where the other myths are 590 00:20:13,295 --> 00:20:15,491 men's myths, which is to say 591 00:20:15,497 --> 00:20:17,932 that the Pagan stories are. 592 00:20:17,933 --> 00:20:19,697 God expressing Himself 593 00:20:19,701 --> 00:20:21,499 through the minds of poets, 594 00:20:21,503 --> 00:20:23,471 using such images as He 595 00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:24,837 found there, while. 596 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,275 Christianity is God 597 00:20:27,276 --> 00:20:28,175 expressing Himself through 598 00:20:28,176 --> 00:20:32,579 what we call real things. 599 00:20:32,581 --> 00:20:35,482 It is therefore true, 600 00:20:35,484 --> 00:20:36,417 not in the sense of being a 601 00:20:36,418 --> 00:20:37,749 description of God, which no 602 00:20:37,753 --> 00:20:39,653 finite mind could take in, 603 00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:40,588 but in the sense of being 604 00:20:40,589 --> 00:20:43,854 the way in which God chooses 605 00:20:43,859 --> 00:20:46,829 to appear to our faculties. 606 00:20:55,637 --> 00:20:56,627 Joseph: And so we see how. 607 00:20:56,638 --> 00:20:58,231 Tolkien was instrumental 608 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,173 in the conversion of. 609 00:20:59,174 --> 00:21:01,074 C. S. Lewis. 610 00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:01,975 Isn't it astonishing to 611 00:21:01,977 --> 00:21:03,103 think that we don't only 612 00:21:03,111 --> 00:21:04,169 have Tolkien to thank for 613 00:21:04,179 --> 00:21:05,977 the brilliance of "The Lord" 614 00:21:05,981 --> 00:21:06,914 "of the Rings," but that we 615 00:21:06,915 --> 00:21:08,144 also have him to thank, 616 00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:09,379 indirectly, for "The." 617 00:21:09,384 --> 00:21:11,478 Chronicles of Narnia" 618 00:21:11,486 --> 00:21:12,419 and all of Lewis' other 619 00:21:12,421 --> 00:21:13,650 wonderful works of Christian 620 00:21:13,655 --> 00:21:16,147 literature? 621 00:21:16,158 --> 00:21:17,125 And speaking personally, 622 00:21:17,126 --> 00:21:18,388 I still remember my own 623 00:21:18,393 --> 00:21:19,656 first reading of"The Lord 624 00:21:19,661 --> 00:21:20,958 "of the Rings" and what a 625 00:21:20,963 --> 00:21:21,896 profoundly healthy effect 626 00:21:21,897 --> 00:21:24,764 it had upon me. 627 00:21:24,766 --> 00:21:25,699 At the time, I was a long 628 00:21:25,701 --> 00:21:26,998 way from any belief in. 629 00:21:27,002 --> 00:21:28,265 Christianity. 630 00:21:28,270 --> 00:21:29,237 I could not even envisage 631 00:21:29,238 --> 00:21:31,001 my own future conversion 632 00:21:31,006 --> 00:21:33,839 to Catholicism. 633 00:21:33,842 --> 00:21:35,037 Looking back, my journeying 634 00:21:35,043 --> 00:21:36,408 with Frodo into Middle-earth 635 00:21:36,411 --> 00:21:37,936 helped me to understand the 636 00:21:37,946 --> 00:21:39,846 true nature of heroism and 637 00:21:39,848 --> 00:21:41,907 to see that it is really 638 00:21:41,917 --> 00:21:45,649 the same thing as sanctity. 639 00:21:45,654 --> 00:21:46,587 Tolkien was one of the first 640 00:21:46,588 --> 00:21:48,556 people to show me the 641 00:21:48,557 --> 00:21:49,581 reality of holiness and to 642 00:21:49,591 --> 00:21:51,787 enkindle within me a desire 643 00:21:51,793 --> 00:21:55,923 for holiness myself. 644 00:21:55,931 --> 00:21:56,864 Like C. S. Lewis, I owe a 645 00:21:56,865 --> 00:21:58,856 great debt of gratitude to. 646 00:21:58,867 --> 00:22:00,995 J.R.R.Tolkien. 647 00:22:06,108 --> 00:22:07,337 It is now time that we 648 00:22:07,342 --> 00:22:08,173 turned our attention to the. 649 00:22:08,176 --> 00:22:09,405 Catholicism of "The Lord of" 650 00:22:09,411 --> 00:22:10,878 "the Rings" itself. 651 00:22:10,879 --> 00:22:11,846 We will remember that. 652 00:22:11,847 --> 00:22:12,746 Tolkien stated emphatically 653 00:22:12,748 --> 00:22:14,341 "that 'The Lord of the Rings" 654 00:22:14,349 --> 00:22:16,545 is a fundamentally religious 655 00:22:16,551 --> 00:22:19,248 and Catholic work, and on 656 00:22:19,254 --> 00:22:21,086 another occasion he spoke of 657 00:22:21,089 --> 00:22:22,022 a scale of significance with 658 00:22:22,024 --> 00:22:23,822 regard to his relationship 659 00:22:23,825 --> 00:22:24,917 as the author, with. 660 00:22:24,926 --> 00:22:26,189 "The Lord of the Rings," 661 00:22:26,194 --> 00:22:28,629 as his work. 662 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:29,563 At the bottom of the scale 663 00:22:29,564 --> 00:22:30,793 were what he called 664 00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:32,699 insignificant facts, 665 00:22:32,701 --> 00:22:33,964 which were irrelevant. 666 00:22:33,969 --> 00:22:34,902 Then there were more 667 00:22:34,903 --> 00:22:35,836 significant facts, such as 668 00:22:35,837 --> 00:22:37,566 his academic vocation as 669 00:22:37,572 --> 00:22:39,870 a philologist at Oxford. 670 00:22:39,875 --> 00:22:40,774 University, which had 671 00:22:40,776 --> 00:22:41,766 affected his taste in 672 00:22:41,777 --> 00:22:43,176 languages and which was, 673 00:22:43,178 --> 00:22:45,272 therefore, obviously a large 674 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,509 ingredient in "The Lord of" 675 00:22:46,515 --> 00:22:48,210 the Rings... 676 00:22:48,216 --> 00:22:49,980 Yet even this was 677 00:22:49,985 --> 00:22:50,918 subservient to the most 678 00:22:50,919 --> 00:22:53,217 important factors. 679 00:22:55,824 --> 00:22:56,791 Tolkien: And there are a few 680 00:22:56,792 --> 00:22:58,282 basic facts, which however 681 00:22:58,293 --> 00:22:59,522 drily expressed, are really 682 00:22:59,528 --> 00:23:02,190 significant. 683 00:23:02,197 --> 00:23:03,722 For instance, I was born in 684 00:23:03,732 --> 00:23:04,790 1892 and lived for my early 685 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,362 years in the shire, in a 686 00:23:09,371 --> 00:23:12,363 pre-mechanical age, or more 687 00:23:12,374 --> 00:23:16,504 important, I am a Christian, 688 00:23:16,511 --> 00:23:17,535 which can be deduced from 689 00:23:17,546 --> 00:23:19,640 my stories, and in fact, 690 00:23:19,648 --> 00:23:24,085 a Roman Catholic. 691 00:23:24,086 --> 00:23:24,951 Joseph: According to Tolkien 692 00:23:24,953 --> 00:23:26,045 himself, the fact that he is 693 00:23:26,054 --> 00:23:28,182 a Christian, which can be 694 00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:29,316 deduced form his stories, 695 00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:30,689 and in fact, a Roman. 696 00:23:30,692 --> 00:23:31,853 Catholic, was the more 697 00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:33,555 important of the really 698 00:23:33,562 --> 00:23:34,723 significant factors at the 699 00:23:34,729 --> 00:23:36,754 very top of the scale of 700 00:23:36,765 --> 00:23:38,358 significance relating to his 701 00:23:38,366 --> 00:23:39,800 relationship as author to. 702 00:23:39,801 --> 00:23:43,066 "The Lord of the Rings." 703 00:23:43,071 --> 00:23:44,038 Since this is so, we should 704 00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:45,632 not be surprised to discover 705 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,074 "that 'The Lord of the Rings" 706 00:23:47,075 --> 00:23:48,839 is exactly what Tolkien 707 00:23:48,844 --> 00:23:50,039 tells us it is... a 708 00:23:50,045 --> 00:23:51,012 fundamentally religious 709 00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:54,505 and Catholic work. 710 00:23:54,516 --> 00:23:55,881 So how exactly is it 711 00:23:55,884 --> 00:23:57,318 fundamentally religious 712 00:23:57,319 --> 00:23:59,378 and Catholic? 713 00:23:59,387 --> 00:24:00,877 Let's begin our exploration 714 00:24:00,889 --> 00:24:02,448 of the deepest Catholic 715 00:24:02,457 --> 00:24:03,447 significance of the book 716 00:24:03,458 --> 00:24:04,448 by starting at the very 717 00:24:04,459 --> 00:24:06,427 beginning of the story, 718 00:24:06,428 --> 00:24:07,259 with the Creation of. 719 00:24:07,262 --> 00:24:08,957 Middle-earth itself. 720 00:24:13,401 --> 00:24:14,835 Tolkien: There was Eru, the 721 00:24:14,836 --> 00:24:16,770 one, who in Arda is called 722 00:24:16,771 --> 00:24:19,297 lluvatar, and he made first 723 00:24:19,307 --> 00:24:22,333 the Ainur, the Holy Ones, 724 00:24:22,344 --> 00:24:24,176 that were the offspring of 725 00:24:24,179 --> 00:24:26,113 his thought, and they were 726 00:24:26,114 --> 00:24:27,707 with him before aught else 727 00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:29,707 was made. 728 00:24:34,122 --> 00:24:34,953 Joseph: In the beginning 729 00:24:34,956 --> 00:24:36,446 there was the one God, 730 00:24:36,458 --> 00:24:38,085 lluvatar, the All-Father, 731 00:24:38,093 --> 00:24:39,618 or Father of all, and He 732 00:24:39,628 --> 00:24:41,960 first made the Ainur, 733 00:24:41,963 --> 00:24:45,558 the Holy Ones, or Angels. 734 00:24:45,567 --> 00:24:46,398 It can be seen that Tolkien 735 00:24:46,401 --> 00:24:47,562 is at great pains from the 736 00:24:47,569 --> 00:24:48,900 beginning to make his 737 00:24:48,904 --> 00:24:51,032 sub-created world conform 738 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,531 with the real created world, 739 00:24:53,542 --> 00:24:54,475 conforming his creation 740 00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:56,911 story to that in Genesis. 741 00:24:56,912 --> 00:24:58,107 Middle-earth has only one. 742 00:24:58,113 --> 00:25:00,912 God. 743 00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:03,317 It is a monotheistic cosmos, 744 00:25:03,318 --> 00:25:04,615 not a polytheistic cosmos 745 00:25:04,619 --> 00:25:06,383 like that of the Pagans. 746 00:25:06,388 --> 00:25:07,617 Still less is it an 747 00:25:07,622 --> 00:25:08,612 atheistic cosmos like 748 00:25:08,623 --> 00:25:10,057 that of the modern-day 749 00:25:10,058 --> 00:25:12,823 materialists. 750 00:25:12,827 --> 00:25:14,090 It is also a fallen cosmos, 751 00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:15,585 due to the rebellion of 752 00:25:15,597 --> 00:25:17,565 satan, whom the elves 753 00:25:17,566 --> 00:25:22,060 call Melkor or Morgoth. 754 00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:23,265 The parallels with. 755 00:25:23,271 --> 00:25:25,797 Christianity are 756 00:25:25,807 --> 00:25:27,901 unmistakable. 757 00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:28,774 Melkor is described by. 758 00:25:28,777 --> 00:25:29,767 Tolkien as the greatest of 759 00:25:29,778 --> 00:25:30,939 the Ainur, as Lucifer was 760 00:25:30,946 --> 00:25:33,040 the greatest of the angels. 761 00:25:33,048 --> 00:25:34,481 Like Lucifer, Melkor is 762 00:25:34,482 --> 00:25:35,472 the embodiment and the 763 00:25:35,483 --> 00:25:37,008 ultimate source of the 764 00:25:37,018 --> 00:25:39,680 sin of pride, intent on 765 00:25:39,688 --> 00:25:40,849 corrupting mankind for 766 00:25:40,855 --> 00:25:44,792 his own purposes. 767 00:25:44,793 --> 00:25:45,817 When God proclaims a great 768 00:25:45,827 --> 00:25:47,591 music, Melkor refuses to 769 00:25:47,596 --> 00:25:49,155 play in harmony with the 770 00:25:49,164 --> 00:25:51,428 rest of the angelic beings 771 00:25:51,433 --> 00:25:52,423 and disharmony enters the 772 00:25:52,434 --> 00:25:55,563 cosmos. 773 00:25:55,570 --> 00:25:56,731 God's response is replete 774 00:25:56,738 --> 00:25:58,729 with the deepest mystical 775 00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:01,208 theology as He declares to. 776 00:26:01,209 --> 00:26:02,938 Melkor, or satan, that his 777 00:26:02,944 --> 00:26:05,140 evil is not only ultimately 778 00:26:05,146 --> 00:26:06,170 doomed to failure but that. 779 00:26:06,181 --> 00:26:08,707 God will bring great 780 00:26:08,717 --> 00:26:10,515 goodness out of the very 781 00:26:10,518 --> 00:26:12,850 evil itself, beyond satan's 782 00:26:12,854 --> 00:26:17,189 wildest imaginings. 783 00:26:17,192 --> 00:26:18,216 These are God's words to 784 00:26:18,226 --> 00:26:20,194 satan-Melkor after satan had 785 00:26:20,195 --> 00:26:22,186 introduced his discordant 786 00:26:22,197 --> 00:26:23,961 themes into the harmony of 787 00:26:23,965 --> 00:26:26,730 the great Music of Creation. 788 00:26:30,639 --> 00:26:32,334 Lluvatar: No theme may be 789 00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:33,398 played that hath not its 790 00:26:33,408 --> 00:26:37,538 uttermost source in me. 791 00:26:37,545 --> 00:26:39,104 He that attempteth this 792 00:26:39,114 --> 00:26:41,674 shall prove but mine 793 00:26:41,683 --> 00:26:43,242 instrument in the devising 794 00:26:43,251 --> 00:26:45,777 of things more wonderful, 795 00:26:45,787 --> 00:26:47,380 which he himself hath not 796 00:26:47,389 --> 00:26:52,589 imagined. 797 00:26:52,594 --> 00:26:53,493 Joseph: The parallels with 798 00:26:53,495 --> 00:26:54,485 Genesis become even more 799 00:26:54,496 --> 00:26:55,395 obvious when Tolkien 800 00:26:55,397 --> 00:26:56,990 describes the war between. 801 00:26:56,998 --> 00:26:59,228 Melkor and Manwe, the latter 802 00:26:59,234 --> 00:27:00,258 of whom is clearly cast in 803 00:27:00,268 --> 00:27:01,463 the role of the Archangel 804 00:27:01,469 --> 00:27:03,437 Michael. 805 00:27:07,309 --> 00:27:08,538 Narrator: When therefore. 806 00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:09,374 Earth was yet young and full 807 00:27:09,377 --> 00:27:11,937 of flame Melkor coveted it, 808 00:27:11,946 --> 00:27:13,436 and he said to the other. 809 00:27:13,448 --> 00:27:14,847 Valar, "This shall be my own" 810 00:27:14,849 --> 00:27:16,146 kingdom, and I name it unto 811 00:27:16,151 --> 00:27:18,984 "myself!" 812 00:27:18,987 --> 00:27:20,682 But Manwe was the brother 813 00:27:20,689 --> 00:27:21,679 of Melkor in the mind of 814 00:27:21,690 --> 00:27:23,749 lluvatar, and he was the 815 00:27:23,758 --> 00:27:25,123 chief instrument of the 2nd 816 00:27:25,126 --> 00:27:27,185 theme that lluvatar raised 817 00:27:27,195 --> 00:27:28,492 up against the discord of. 818 00:27:28,496 --> 00:27:31,124 Melkor, and Manwe said unto. 819 00:27:31,132 --> 00:27:32,691 Melkor, "This kingdom thou" 820 00:27:32,701 --> 00:27:35,135 shalt not take for thine 821 00:27:35,136 --> 00:27:37,662 own, wrongfully, for many 822 00:27:37,672 --> 00:27:38,639 others have labored here 823 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,507 no less than thou. 824 00:27:41,509 --> 00:27:42,601 And there was strife 825 00:27:42,610 --> 00:27:43,634 between Melkor and the 826 00:27:43,645 --> 00:27:45,340 other Valar. 827 00:27:49,117 --> 00:27:50,084 Joseph: The fact that 828 00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:51,109 Tolkien's Melkor is merely 829 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,018 another name for satan is 830 00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:54,011 made even more manifest 831 00:27:54,022 --> 00:27:54,921 when Tolkien connects 832 00:27:54,923 --> 00:27:56,948 them linguistically. 833 00:27:56,958 --> 00:27:57,982 Tolkien explains that 834 00:27:57,992 --> 00:27:59,983 the name Melkor means. 835 00:27:59,994 --> 00:28:02,986 "He who arises in Might." 836 00:28:08,169 --> 00:28:09,295 Narrator: But that name 837 00:28:09,304 --> 00:28:10,863 he has forfeited and the 838 00:28:10,872 --> 00:28:12,339 Noldor, who among the Elves 839 00:28:12,340 --> 00:28:13,569 suffered most from his 840 00:28:13,575 --> 00:28:16,203 malice, will not utter it, 841 00:28:16,211 --> 00:28:19,237 and they name him Morgoth, 842 00:28:19,247 --> 00:28:27,247 the Dark Enemy of the World. 843 00:28:30,558 --> 00:28:32,390 Joseph: Similarly, Lucifer, 844 00:28:32,394 --> 00:28:33,293 brightest of the angels, 845 00:28:33,294 --> 00:28:35,262 means “fight bearer, “ 846 00:28:35,263 --> 00:28:36,753 whereas satan, like. 847 00:28:36,765 --> 00:28:40,531 Morgoth, means enemy. 848 00:28:40,535 --> 00:28:41,764 Morgoth means enemy, satan 849 00:28:41,770 --> 00:28:44,068 means enemy; Therefore. 850 00:28:44,072 --> 00:28:46,837 Morgoth means satan. 851 00:28:46,841 --> 00:28:47,808 They are simply different 852 00:28:47,809 --> 00:28:50,642 words for the same thing. 853 00:28:50,645 --> 00:28:54,081 Morgoth is satan. 854 00:28:54,082 --> 00:28:55,311 Tolkien's intention, both 855 00:28:55,316 --> 00:28:57,080 as a Christian and as a 856 00:28:57,085 --> 00:28:58,575 philologist, in identifying. 857 00:28:58,586 --> 00:29:00,577 Melkor with Lucifer is 858 00:29:00,588 --> 00:29:03,148 beyond question. 859 00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:04,819 Even the way that Tolkien 860 00:29:04,826 --> 00:29:07,454 describes the fall of Melkor 861 00:29:07,462 --> 00:29:08,987 or satan in the Silmarillion 862 00:29:08,997 --> 00:29:10,123 is similar to the way that 863 00:29:10,131 --> 00:29:11,098 satan's fall is described 864 00:29:11,099 --> 00:29:15,195 in the Book of Isaiah. 865 00:29:15,203 --> 00:29:19,765 First, the Book of Isaiah. 866 00:29:19,774 --> 00:29:21,037 Woman: Thy pomp is brought 867 00:29:21,042 --> 00:29:22,874 down to the grave, and 868 00:29:22,877 --> 00:29:26,336 the noise of thy viols, 869 00:29:26,347 --> 00:29:27,746 the worm is spread under 870 00:29:27,749 --> 00:29:29,716 thee, and the worms 871 00:29:29,717 --> 00:29:32,345 cover thee. 872 00:29:32,353 --> 00:29:33,752 How art thou fallen 873 00:29:33,755 --> 00:29:35,587 from Heaven, O Lucifer, 874 00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:38,924 son of the morning? 875 00:29:38,927 --> 00:29:39,860 Joseph: And this is how. 876 00:29:39,861 --> 00:29:40,760 Tolkien describes the 877 00:29:40,762 --> 00:29:45,359 same fall. 878 00:29:45,366 --> 00:29:46,356 Tolkien: From splendor he 879 00:29:46,367 --> 00:29:48,199 fell through arrogance to 880 00:29:48,203 --> 00:29:50,934 contempt for all things save 881 00:29:50,939 --> 00:29:55,274 himself, a spirit wasteful 882 00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:58,769 and pitiless. 883 00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:00,578 Understanding, he turned to 884 00:30:00,582 --> 00:30:03,643 subtlety in perverting to 885 00:30:03,651 --> 00:30:05,585 his own will all that he 886 00:30:05,587 --> 00:30:08,648 could use, until he became 887 00:30:08,656 --> 00:30:11,626 a liar without shame. 888 00:30:15,964 --> 00:30:18,023 He began with the desire of 889 00:30:18,032 --> 00:30:20,831 light, but when he could not 890 00:30:20,835 --> 00:30:22,894 possess it for himself 891 00:30:22,904 --> 00:30:26,499 alone, he descended through 892 00:30:26,508 --> 00:30:29,967 fire and wrath into great 893 00:30:29,978 --> 00:30:35,473 burning, down into darkness, 894 00:30:35,483 --> 00:30:37,281 and darkness he used most 895 00:30:37,285 --> 00:30:41,518 in his evil works upon Arda, 896 00:30:41,523 --> 00:30:43,617 and filled it with fear 897 00:30:43,625 --> 00:30:48,586 for all living things. 898 00:30:48,596 --> 00:30:49,825 Joseph: As well as the 899 00:30:49,831 --> 00:30:51,230 scriptural influence, 900 00:30:51,232 --> 00:30:53,064 the other over-riding 901 00:30:53,067 --> 00:30:54,398 influence is a profoundly 902 00:30:54,402 --> 00:30:55,528 orthodox understanding of. 903 00:30:55,537 --> 00:30:58,700 Augustinian theology. 904 00:30:58,706 --> 00:31:00,071 Evil, as symbolized by 905 00:31:00,074 --> 00:31:01,769 darkness, has no value 906 00:31:01,776 --> 00:31:03,710 of its own but is only a 907 00:31:03,711 --> 00:31:05,145 negation of that which is 908 00:31:05,146 --> 00:31:06,375 good, as symbolized by 909 00:31:06,381 --> 00:31:08,873 light. 910 00:31:08,883 --> 00:31:09,816 This understanding of the 911 00:31:09,817 --> 00:31:11,717 parasitic nature of evil 912 00:31:11,719 --> 00:31:13,448 permeates Tolkien's work 913 00:31:13,454 --> 00:31:14,979 and is especially true of 914 00:31:14,989 --> 00:31:16,252 the depiction of evil in. 915 00:31:16,257 --> 00:31:18,817 "The Lord of the Rings." 916 00:31:18,826 --> 00:31:20,590 Shortly after Tolkien 917 00:31:20,595 --> 00:31:21,687 describes the fall of 918 00:31:21,696 --> 00:31:23,095 satan, or Melkor, in "The". 919 00:31:23,097 --> 00:31:24,121 "Silmarillion" he introduces 920 00:31:24,132 --> 00:31:25,531 Sauron, the Dark Lord in. 921 00:31:25,533 --> 00:31:28,230 "The Lord of the Rings." 922 00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:29,203 He is described as the 923 00:31:29,204 --> 00:31:30,693 greatest of Melkor's 924 00:31:30,705 --> 00:31:32,298 servants. 925 00:31:32,307 --> 00:31:33,240 In other words, Sauron, the 926 00:31:33,241 --> 00:31:34,731 evil power in "The Lord of" 927 00:31:34,742 --> 00:31:35,800 "the Rings" is revealed to us 928 00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:37,073 as the greatest of satan's 929 00:31:37,078 --> 00:31:42,516 servants. 930 00:31:42,517 --> 00:31:43,416 Tolkien: But in after years 931 00:31:43,418 --> 00:31:45,011 he rose like a shadow of. 932 00:31:45,019 --> 00:31:47,181 Morgoth and a ghost of his 933 00:31:47,188 --> 00:31:48,952 malice, and walked behind 934 00:31:48,957 --> 00:31:50,721 him on the same ruinous path 935 00:31:50,725 --> 00:31:57,290 down into the Void. 936 00:31:57,298 --> 00:31:58,697 Joseph: It is abundantly 937 00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:00,361 clear, therefore, that the 938 00:32:00,368 --> 00:32:01,267 evil powers in 'The Lord of 939 00:32:01,269 --> 00:32:02,668 "the Rings" are specified as 940 00:32:02,670 --> 00:32:04,695 servants of satan, rendering 941 00:32:04,706 --> 00:32:06,538 impossible, or at least 942 00:32:06,541 --> 00:32:08,236 implausible, anything but a 943 00:32:08,242 --> 00:32:10,210 theistic interpretation of 944 00:32:10,211 --> 00:32:13,374 the book. 945 00:32:13,381 --> 00:32:14,906 And the symbolic connection 946 00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:16,213 of the evil characters with 947 00:32:16,217 --> 00:32:18,151 satan is made even more 948 00:32:18,152 --> 00:32:19,210 apparent in the way that. 949 00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:20,346 Tolkien uses linguistic 950 00:32:20,355 --> 00:32:21,845 connections to suggest 951 00:32:21,856 --> 00:32:24,450 the satanic dimension. 952 00:32:24,459 --> 00:32:25,620 Tolkien, remember, was a 953 00:32:25,627 --> 00:32:27,391 linguist, a professor of 954 00:32:27,395 --> 00:32:28,920 philology at Oxford. 955 00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:31,058 University, and he often 956 00:32:31,065 --> 00:32:32,191 employs linguistic clues 957 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,603 to his deepest meaning. 958 00:32:36,604 --> 00:32:37,594 Take, for instance, the name 959 00:32:37,605 --> 00:32:39,232 of Sauron, the Dark Lord of. 960 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,039 "The Lord of the Rings. 961 00:32:42,043 --> 00:32:44,603 The letters "saur" come 962 00:32:44,612 --> 00:32:45,704 from the Greek word sauros 963 00:32:45,713 --> 00:32:51,015 meaning lizard or dragon, 964 00:32:51,019 --> 00:32:52,282 and we know, of course, that 965 00:32:52,286 --> 00:32:54,311 in mediaeval typology, and 966 00:32:54,322 --> 00:32:55,346 in Christian iconography 967 00:32:55,356 --> 00:32:57,381 down the ages, the lizard 968 00:32:57,392 --> 00:32:58,917 or dragon or serpent is a 969 00:32:58,926 --> 00:33:02,419 symbol of satan. 970 00:33:02,430 --> 00:33:03,488 Clearly Tolkien wants us 971 00:33:03,498 --> 00:33:04,988 to see Sauron as satanic. 972 00:33:04,999 --> 00:33:06,967 Similarly, one does not have 973 00:33:06,968 --> 00:33:08,094 to be an expert in anagrams 974 00:33:08,102 --> 00:33:11,868 to see that Saruman includes 975 00:33:11,873 --> 00:33:14,899 the same 4 letters, s-a-u-r, 976 00:33:14,909 --> 00:33:15,967 in a slightly rearranged 977 00:33:15,977 --> 00:33:18,139 order. 978 00:33:18,146 --> 00:33:19,136 Saruman, like Sauron, 979 00:33:19,147 --> 00:33:22,515 is satanic. 980 00:33:22,517 --> 00:33:24,508 And what about Wormtongue? 981 00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:26,248 Well, the Old English word 982 00:33:26,254 --> 00:33:27,483 for dragon or serpent was 983 00:33:27,488 --> 00:33:31,049 wyrm, spelled w-y-r-m, 984 00:33:31,059 --> 00:33:32,857 or worm. 985 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:34,259 Wormtongue means 986 00:33:34,262 --> 00:33:35,252 serpent-tongue or 987 00:33:35,263 --> 00:33:36,924 dragon-tongue, or, by 988 00:33:36,931 --> 00:33:39,866 extension, devil-tongue. 989 00:33:39,867 --> 00:33:40,834 As if this isn't obvious 990 00:33:40,835 --> 00:33:41,859 enough, Tolkien makes the 991 00:33:41,869 --> 00:33:43,359 satanic connection even 992 00:33:43,371 --> 00:33:45,362 more clear in the way that 993 00:33:45,373 --> 00:33:46,499 Gandalf calls Wormtongue a 994 00:33:46,507 --> 00:33:48,874 snake, commanding him to get 995 00:33:48,876 --> 00:33:50,810 down on his belly in words 996 00:33:50,812 --> 00:33:52,746 that echo Gods punishment 997 00:33:52,747 --> 00:33:56,183 of satan. 998 00:33:56,184 --> 00:33:57,515 Gandalf: Down snake! 999 00:33:57,518 --> 00:33:59,384 Down on your belly! 1000 00:33:59,387 --> 00:34:00,877 See, Theoden, here is 1001 00:34:00,888 --> 00:34:04,586 a snake! 1002 00:34:04,592 --> 00:34:05,559 Joseph: As if to emphasize. 1003 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,584 Wormtongues serpentine 1004 00:34:06,594 --> 00:34:07,652 character, Tolkien describes. 1005 00:34:07,662 --> 00:34:09,653 Wormtongue's reaction. 1006 00:34:09,664 --> 00:34:10,688 Narrator: He bared his 1007 00:34:10,698 --> 00:34:13,667 teeth, and then with a 1008 00:34:13,668 --> 00:34:16,433 hissing breath he spat 1009 00:34:16,437 --> 00:34:18,838 before the king's feet. 1010 00:34:22,777 --> 00:34:23,573 Joseph: So much for the role 1011 00:34:23,578 --> 00:34:24,739 of satanic evil in 'The Lord 1012 00:34:24,746 --> 00:34:25,838 "of the Rings," but now it's 1013 00:34:25,847 --> 00:34:26,780 time to reveal the secret 1014 00:34:26,781 --> 00:34:28,078 that unlocks the 1015 00:34:28,082 --> 00:34:29,777 fundamentally and religious 1016 00:34:29,784 --> 00:34:33,118 dimension of the whole work. 1017 00:34:33,121 --> 00:34:35,283 The fact is that Tolkien 1018 00:34:35,289 --> 00:34:36,222 hides a key within the 1019 00:34:36,224 --> 00:34:37,453 story, a key that, once 1020 00:34:37,458 --> 00:34:38,925 discovered, allows us 1021 00:34:38,926 --> 00:34:41,054 to unlock the deepest 1022 00:34:41,062 --> 00:34:43,588 Christian theology at the 1023 00:34:43,598 --> 00:34:46,090 heart of the drama. 1024 00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:49,695 What is the key? 1025 00:34:49,704 --> 00:34:50,694 It's to be found in the date 1026 00:34:50,705 --> 00:34:52,469 on which Tolkien tells us 1027 00:34:52,473 --> 00:34:54,407 that the ring is destroyed, 1028 00:34:54,408 --> 00:34:56,035 or unmade. 1029 00:34:56,043 --> 00:34:58,876 That date is March 25th... a 1030 00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:59,972 date that every Catholic 1031 00:34:59,981 --> 00:35:01,574 knows is perhaps the most 1032 00:35:01,582 --> 00:35:02,743 significant and important 1033 00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:04,309 date on the whole Christian 1034 00:35:04,318 --> 00:35:08,016 calendar. 1035 00:35:08,022 --> 00:35:09,183 March 25th is the Feast of 1036 00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:10,988 the Annunciation, the date 1037 00:35:10,992 --> 00:35:12,255 on which the Archangel 1038 00:35:12,260 --> 00:35:13,489 Gabriel appears to the. 1039 00:35:13,494 --> 00:35:15,758 Blessed Virgin, and more 1040 00:35:15,763 --> 00:35:17,629 important, it is the date on 1041 00:35:17,632 --> 00:35:19,498 which Jesus is conceived in. 1042 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:22,299 His Mother's womb, it is the 1043 00:35:22,303 --> 00:35:23,270 date on which the Word is 1044 00:35:23,271 --> 00:35:25,399 made Flesh, the date on 1045 00:35:25,406 --> 00:35:28,205 which God becomes Man. 1046 00:35:28,209 --> 00:35:29,142 It is a more important date 1047 00:35:29,143 --> 00:35:30,167 than Christmas because life 1048 00:35:30,178 --> 00:35:31,304 begins at conception, 1049 00:35:31,312 --> 00:35:34,475 not at birth. 1050 00:35:34,482 --> 00:35:35,472 God did not become Man 1051 00:35:35,483 --> 00:35:36,507 at Christmas, but at 1052 00:35:36,517 --> 00:35:39,009 the Annunciation. 1053 00:35:39,020 --> 00:35:40,044 The Incarnation happens 1054 00:35:40,054 --> 00:35:42,045 at the Annunciation. 1055 00:35:42,056 --> 00:35:43,649 It happens on March 25th, 1056 00:35:43,658 --> 00:35:44,625 the date on which the Ring 1057 00:35:44,626 --> 00:35:46,389 is destroyed! 1058 00:35:46,394 --> 00:35:50,194 And that's not all. 1059 00:35:50,198 --> 00:35:51,097 Many medievals believed that 1060 00:35:51,098 --> 00:35:52,156 the Crucifixion also 1061 00:35:52,166 --> 00:35:54,897 happened on March 25th. 1062 00:35:54,902 --> 00:35:56,392 Of course, we celebrate Good 1063 00:35:56,404 --> 00:35:58,771 Friday as a moveable feast. 1064 00:35:58,773 --> 00:35:59,535 It is celebrated on a 1065 00:35:59,540 --> 00:36:01,474 different date each year. 1066 00:36:01,475 --> 00:36:02,533 But the Crucifixion, as an 1067 00:36:02,543 --> 00:36:04,102 historical event, happened 1068 00:36:04,111 --> 00:36:05,442 once on a particular day in 1069 00:36:05,446 --> 00:36:07,744 history. 1070 00:36:07,748 --> 00:36:08,544 That day, so the medievals 1071 00:36:08,549 --> 00:36:11,541 believed, was March 25th, 1072 00:36:11,552 --> 00:36:12,417 thus connecting Christ's. 1073 00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:16,880 Death to His Incarnation. 1074 00:36:16,891 --> 00:36:17,858 And what do these 2 events 1075 00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:18,985 signify, taken together 1076 00:36:18,993 --> 00:36:20,984 with the Resurrection? 1077 00:36:20,995 --> 00:36:21,985 They signify man's 1078 00:36:21,996 --> 00:36:23,293 redemption from Original. 1079 00:36:23,297 --> 00:36:25,265 Sin, and what is. 1080 00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:27,667 Original Sin? 1081 00:36:27,668 --> 00:36:28,897 It is the one sin to rule 1082 00:36:28,903 --> 00:36:30,871 them all and in the darkness 1083 00:36:30,872 --> 00:36:32,067 bind them, just as the one 1084 00:36:32,073 --> 00:36:34,565 ring is the one ring to rule 1085 00:36:34,575 --> 00:36:36,065 them all and in the darkness 1086 00:36:36,077 --> 00:36:39,980 bind them. 1087 00:36:39,981 --> 00:36:46,785 The one ring is the same as 1088 00:36:46,787 --> 00:36:48,448 the one sin and they're both 1089 00:36:48,456 --> 00:36:50,686 destroyed or unmade on the 1090 00:36:50,691 --> 00:36:55,788 same day... March 25th! 1091 00:36:55,796 --> 00:36:57,821 This is no coincidence, 1092 00:36:57,832 --> 00:36:58,993 but is the very key that 1093 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,365 unlocks the deep theology 1094 00:37:00,368 --> 00:37:01,699 and deepest meaning of. 1095 00:37:01,702 --> 00:37:04,262 "The Lord of the Rings." 1096 00:37:04,272 --> 00:37:05,739 The one ring is nothing 1097 00:37:05,740 --> 00:37:07,936 less than a symbol of. 1098 00:37:07,942 --> 00:37:10,502 Original Sin itself, and 1099 00:37:10,511 --> 00:37:12,479 by extension, a symbol of 1100 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,574 actual, individual sin also. 1101 00:37:14,582 --> 00:37:17,550 So how does this sin 1102 00:37:17,551 --> 00:37:18,541 manifest itself in the 1103 00:37:18,552 --> 00:37:20,281 story? 1104 00:37:20,288 --> 00:37:21,221 Well, what happens when 1105 00:37:21,222 --> 00:37:23,247 you put the ring on? 1106 00:37:23,257 --> 00:37:24,588 It's a good question, 1107 00:37:24,592 --> 00:37:27,084 and a crucial one. 1108 00:37:27,094 --> 00:37:27,959 Many of you might be 1109 00:37:27,962 --> 00:37:29,396 thinking that the wearer of 1110 00:37:29,397 --> 00:37:30,455 the ring becomes invisible 1111 00:37:30,464 --> 00:37:32,398 when he puts the ring on. 1112 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,732 But does he? 1113 00:37:34,735 --> 00:37:37,102 Think about it a bit more 1114 00:37:37,104 --> 00:37:38,003 carefully. 1115 00:37:38,005 --> 00:37:38,938 What actually happens is 1116 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:40,533 that the wearer of the ring 1117 00:37:40,541 --> 00:37:42,600 becomes invisible in the. 1118 00:37:42,610 --> 00:37:45,011 Good World that God made, 1119 00:37:45,012 --> 00:37:46,537 but becomes more visible to 1120 00:37:46,547 --> 00:37:48,413 the eye of Sauron, to the 1121 00:37:48,416 --> 00:37:50,510 eye of satan. 1122 00:38:02,530 --> 00:38:05,932 Tolkien: And suddenly, he was 1123 00:38:05,933 --> 00:38:10,393 aware of the eye. 1124 00:38:10,404 --> 00:38:11,929 There was an eye in the dark 1125 00:38:11,939 --> 00:38:13,634 tower that did not sleep. 1126 00:38:16,877 --> 00:38:17,742 He knew that it had become 1127 00:38:17,745 --> 00:38:20,942 aware of his gaze. 1128 00:38:20,948 --> 00:38:22,245 A fierce eager will 1129 00:38:22,249 --> 00:38:24,115 was there. 1130 00:38:24,118 --> 00:38:25,244 It leaped towards him. 1131 00:38:25,252 --> 00:38:26,378 Almost like a finger, he felt 1132 00:38:26,387 --> 00:38:28,048 it searching for him. 1133 00:38:28,055 --> 00:38:28,988 Very soon it would nail him 1134 00:38:28,990 --> 00:38:30,321 down, know just exactly 1135 00:38:30,324 --> 00:38:32,053 where he was. 1136 00:38:32,059 --> 00:38:33,288 Amen Lhaw it touched. 1137 00:38:33,294 --> 00:38:36,889 It glanced upon Tol Brandir. 1138 00:38:36,897 --> 00:38:37,921 He threw himself from the 1139 00:38:37,932 --> 00:38:39,366 seat, crouching, covering 1140 00:38:39,367 --> 00:38:40,391 his head with this grey 1141 00:38:40,401 --> 00:38:42,733 hood. 1142 00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:44,170 He heard himself crying out, 1143 00:38:44,171 --> 00:38:46,299 "Never, never!" 1144 00:38:46,307 --> 00:38:49,140 Or was it, "Verily", 1145 00:38:49,143 --> 00:38:55,606 I come to you!" 1146 00:38:55,616 --> 00:38:57,983 He could not tell. 1147 00:39:01,389 --> 00:39:02,618 Then as a flash from some 1148 00:39:02,623 --> 00:39:04,523 other point of power there 1149 00:39:04,525 --> 00:39:06,493 came to his mind another 1150 00:39:06,494 --> 00:39:09,953 thought, "Take it off, fool!" 1151 00:39:09,964 --> 00:39:11,022 "Take it off!" 1152 00:39:11,032 --> 00:39:13,933 Take off the Ring. 1153 00:39:13,934 --> 00:39:17,564 The 2 powers strove in him. 1154 00:39:17,571 --> 00:39:19,835 For a moment, perfectly 1155 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,467 balanced between the 1156 00:39:21,475 --> 00:39:23,773 piercing points, he writhed, 1157 00:39:23,778 --> 00:39:29,376 tormented. 1158 00:39:29,383 --> 00:39:32,478 Suddenly he was aware of 1159 00:39:32,486 --> 00:39:38,789 himself again, Frodo, 1160 00:39:38,793 --> 00:39:39,885 neither the voice nor the 1161 00:39:39,894 --> 00:39:42,864 eye, and free to choose, 1162 00:39:48,469 --> 00:39:49,766 and with one instant 1163 00:39:49,770 --> 00:39:53,673 remaining in which to do so. 1164 00:39:53,674 --> 00:39:55,836 He took the ring from off 1165 00:39:55,843 --> 00:39:59,711 his finger. 1166 00:40:05,286 --> 00:40:07,516 Joseph: In other words, when 1167 00:40:07,521 --> 00:40:09,216 we put the ring on, when we 1168 00:40:09,223 --> 00:40:11,021 put sin on, we excommunicate 1169 00:40:11,025 --> 00:40:12,992 ourselves from Gods world, 1170 00:40:12,993 --> 00:40:15,189 the world of goodness, and 1171 00:40:15,196 --> 00:40:18,063 enter into satan's world. 1172 00:40:18,065 --> 00:40:18,998 Will we listen to the voice 1173 00:40:18,999 --> 00:40:21,058 or will we succumb to the 1174 00:40:21,068 --> 00:40:23,366 eye of Sauron? 1175 00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:24,269 Will we heed the voice of 1176 00:40:24,271 --> 00:40:25,830 conscience or will we 1177 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,400 choose the evil? 1178 00:40:28,409 --> 00:40:30,070 It is a crucial question, 1179 00:40:30,077 --> 00:40:31,203 a matter of eternal life 1180 00:40:31,212 --> 00:40:32,771 and death. 1181 00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:33,645 If we choose the evil and 1182 00:40:33,647 --> 00:40:35,308 allow the sin to become 1183 00:40:35,316 --> 00:40:36,613 habit-forming, we become 1184 00:40:36,617 --> 00:40:39,018 addicted to it. 1185 00:40:39,019 --> 00:40:41,215 It becomes our precious. 1186 00:40:41,222 --> 00:40:44,657 Eventually we become less 1187 00:40:44,658 --> 00:40:45,819 and less like the good 1188 00:40:45,826 --> 00:40:47,726 person, or good hobbit, that 1189 00:40:47,728 --> 00:40:49,628 we were meant to be, and 1190 00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:50,563 become more and more like a 1191 00:40:50,564 --> 00:40:53,329 hideous and pathetic parody 1192 00:40:53,334 --> 00:40:56,497 of who we were meant to be. 1193 00:40:56,504 --> 00:40:57,369 We cease to be a man or a 1194 00:40:57,371 --> 00:40:59,339 hobbit and we turn more and 1195 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:03,072 more into a Gollum, and here 1196 00:41:03,077 --> 00:41:04,340 is one of the key morals of. 1197 00:41:04,345 --> 00:41:06,336 "The Lord of the Rings"- 1198 00:41:06,347 --> 00:41:08,213 that the thing possessed 1199 00:41:08,215 --> 00:41:11,048 possesses the possessor, 1200 00:41:11,051 --> 00:41:12,280 or as Christ told us in the. 1201 00:41:12,286 --> 00:41:13,811 Gospel, that, "Where our" 1202 00:41:13,821 --> 00:41:15,118 treasure is, there our 1203 00:41:15,122 --> 00:41:19,355 "heart will be also." 1204 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,418 But what is the 1205 00:41:20,427 --> 00:41:21,258 alternative? 1206 00:41:21,262 --> 00:41:22,286 What must we do to avoid 1207 00:41:22,296 --> 00:41:23,286 becoming addicted to our 1208 00:41:23,297 --> 00:41:24,560 sin, or addicted to the 1209 00:41:24,565 --> 00:41:26,294 ring? 1210 00:41:34,542 --> 00:41:36,670 Gollum: It came to me. 1211 00:41:36,677 --> 00:41:40,113 My oglie, my love. 1212 00:41:40,114 --> 00:41:43,140 MY PRECIOUS! 1213 00:41:48,522 --> 00:41:49,956 Joseph: As Christians-and 1214 00:41:49,957 --> 00:41:50,822 remember always that Tolkien 1215 00:41:50,824 --> 00:41:51,916 was a lifelong practicing. 1216 00:41:51,926 --> 00:41:54,327 Catholic-we know that we 1217 00:41:54,328 --> 00:41:55,352 must take up our cross and 1218 00:41:55,362 --> 00:41:56,625 follow in the footsteps of 1219 00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:58,997 Christ. 1220 00:41:58,999 --> 00:42:02,094 What does Frodo do? 1221 00:42:02,102 --> 00:42:03,934 He takes up his cross and 1222 00:42:03,938 --> 00:42:04,962 follows in the footsteps 1223 00:42:04,972 --> 00:42:06,906 of Christ. 1224 00:42:06,907 --> 00:42:09,035 But how? 1225 00:42:09,043 --> 00:42:09,942 There's no cross in "The." 1226 00:42:09,944 --> 00:42:11,673 Lord of the Rings, “ nor is 1227 00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:14,512 there any mention of Christ. 1228 00:42:14,515 --> 00:42:15,641 Remember that we must think 1229 00:42:15,649 --> 00:42:17,378 typologically if we are to 1230 00:42:17,384 --> 00:42:18,783 understand the deepest 1231 00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:20,550 elements in Tolkien's myth. 1232 00:42:20,554 --> 00:42:22,215 Remember his words to. 1233 00:42:22,223 --> 00:42:23,850 C. S. Lewis that all the 1234 00:42:23,857 --> 00:42:24,983 great stories reflect the 1235 00:42:24,992 --> 00:42:28,485 true story of Christianity. 1236 00:42:28,495 --> 00:42:29,587 How then does Tolkien's 1237 00:42:29,597 --> 00:42:31,064 story reflect the true 1238 00:42:31,065 --> 00:42:34,831 story? 1239 00:42:34,835 --> 00:42:36,200 Specifically, how does the 1240 00:42:36,203 --> 00:42:37,568 carrying of the ring 1241 00:42:37,571 --> 00:42:38,766 resemble the carrying 1242 00:42:38,772 --> 00:42:42,402 of the cross? 1243 00:42:42,409 --> 00:42:44,503 What is the Cross of Christ? 1244 00:42:44,511 --> 00:42:47,242 It is a symbol of sin. 1245 00:42:47,248 --> 00:42:48,409 It is the sin of the world 1246 00:42:48,415 --> 00:42:50,281 that Christ carries on His 1247 00:42:50,284 --> 00:42:53,219 back on the Via Dolorosa, 1248 00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:54,949 the Way of Sorrows, to. 1249 00:42:54,955 --> 00:42:57,390 Golgotha, the mountain on 1250 00:42:57,391 --> 00:42:59,553 which He will be crucified. 1251 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,790 We have already seen that 1252 00:43:01,795 --> 00:43:02,762 the ring is a symbol of sin 1253 00:43:02,763 --> 00:43:04,891 so it easy to see that the 1254 00:43:04,898 --> 00:43:06,832 carrying of the ring is 1255 00:43:06,834 --> 00:43:08,359 symbolically synonymous with 1256 00:43:08,369 --> 00:43:11,202 the carrying of the cross. 1257 00:43:11,205 --> 00:43:13,071 Frodo carries his cross 1258 00:43:13,073 --> 00:43:15,201 through Mordor, which 1259 00:43:15,209 --> 00:43:16,267 is clearly rooted 1260 00:43:16,277 --> 00:43:17,506 linguistically in the Latin 1261 00:43:17,511 --> 00:43:19,570 word mors or mortis, meaning 1262 00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:21,639 death, to Mount Doom, the 1263 00:43:21,649 --> 00:43:24,175 mountain of doom, clearly 1264 00:43:24,184 --> 00:43:28,621 an echo of Golgotha itself. 1265 00:43:28,622 --> 00:43:29,555 So Frodo and his loyal 1266 00:43:29,556 --> 00:43:31,320 companion, Samwise Gamgee, 1267 00:43:31,325 --> 00:43:33,259 walk through the valley of 1268 00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:34,523 death to Mount Doom, 1269 00:43:34,528 --> 00:43:35,995 carrying the cross 1270 00:43:35,996 --> 00:43:37,521 in mythological imitation 1271 00:43:37,531 --> 00:43:39,397 of Christ Himself. 1272 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,799 And as we have seen, the 1273 00:43:40,801 --> 00:43:42,963 climax on Mount Doom is 1274 00:43:42,970 --> 00:43:45,598 united with Christ's. 1275 00:43:45,606 --> 00:43:47,597 Crucifixion on Golgotha 1276 00:43:47,608 --> 00:43:49,042 through the key date of. 1277 00:43:49,043 --> 00:43:53,310 March 25th. 1278 00:43:53,314 --> 00:43:54,213 And there is another 1279 00:43:54,214 --> 00:43:55,739 tantalizing parallel between. 1280 00:43:55,749 --> 00:43:57,274 Frodo's journey and the 1281 00:43:57,284 --> 00:43:58,376 journey of every Catholic 1282 00:43:58,385 --> 00:43:59,750 in imitation of Christ. 1283 00:43:59,753 --> 00:44:02,814 During their trek through 1284 00:44:02,823 --> 00:44:04,985 the sinful valley of Mordor, 1285 00:44:04,992 --> 00:44:06,153 Frodo and Sam have nothing 1286 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,322 to eat, nothing to sustain 1287 00:44:08,329 --> 00:44:11,128 them, except "lembas", the 1288 00:44:11,131 --> 00:44:14,726 elvish waybread. 1289 00:44:14,735 --> 00:44:15,793 It seems to have magical or 1290 00:44:15,803 --> 00:44:17,293 even miraculous nutritional 1291 00:44:17,304 --> 00:44:19,966 powers. 1292 00:44:19,973 --> 00:44:20,963 But what exactly is it? 1293 00:44:20,974 --> 00:44:23,238 Literally, it is simply 1294 00:44:23,243 --> 00:44:25,268 special bread made by elves 1295 00:44:25,279 --> 00:44:28,112 to help those on a journey, 1296 00:44:28,115 --> 00:44:29,776 but symbolically its deeper 1297 00:44:29,783 --> 00:44:30,773 significance is revealed by 1298 00:44:30,784 --> 00:44:32,912 what lembas actually means 1299 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,550 in elvish. 1300 00:44:36,557 --> 00:44:39,185 Lembas means life-bread or 1301 00:44:39,193 --> 00:44:41,287 the bread of life, a clear 1302 00:44:41,295 --> 00:44:43,593 symbolic connection with the. 1303 00:44:43,597 --> 00:44:46,931 Blessed Sacrament Itself. 1304 00:44:46,934 --> 00:44:48,401 On their journey through the 1305 00:44:48,402 --> 00:44:49,494 vale of tears, the valley of 1306 00:44:49,503 --> 00:44:51,028 death, carrying their cross 1307 00:44:51,038 --> 00:44:54,474 in imitation of Christ, 1308 00:44:54,475 --> 00:44:55,636 Frodo and Sam are sustained 1309 00:44:55,642 --> 00:44:57,804 on their journey by the. 1310 00:44:57,811 --> 00:45:01,645 Bread of Life. 1311 00:45:01,648 --> 00:45:02,843 Once again we see the 1312 00:45:02,850 --> 00:45:03,783 journey of the hobbits 1313 00:45:03,784 --> 00:45:05,377 as images of the true. 1314 00:45:05,386 --> 00:45:07,353 Christian's pilgrimage 1315 00:45:07,354 --> 00:45:11,484 through life. 1316 00:45:11,492 --> 00:45:12,425 But what about the climax 1317 00:45:12,426 --> 00:45:14,394 on Mount Doom itself? 1318 00:45:14,395 --> 00:45:15,385 Why is it that Frodo fails 1319 00:45:15,396 --> 00:45:17,125 at the very last moment 1320 00:45:17,131 --> 00:45:18,326 in his quest to destroy 1321 00:45:18,332 --> 00:45:21,825 the Ring? 1322 00:45:21,835 --> 00:45:23,462 Frodo: I have come, 1323 00:45:23,470 --> 00:45:24,335 but I do not choose now 1324 00:45:24,338 --> 00:45:26,466 to do what I came to do. 1325 00:45:26,473 --> 00:45:28,100 I will not do this deed. 1326 00:45:28,108 --> 00:45:31,601 The Ring is mine! 1327 00:45:31,612 --> 00:45:34,377 Joseph: Why does Frodo fail? 1328 00:45:34,381 --> 00:45:35,371 Isn't there something 1329 00:45:35,382 --> 00:45:36,406 anti-climactic about his 1330 00:45:36,417 --> 00:45:38,283 failure? 1331 00:45:38,285 --> 00:45:39,411 I know that when I first 1332 00:45:39,420 --> 00:45:41,149 read 'The Lord of the. 1333 00:45:41,155 --> 00:45:41,986 "Rings," I was annoyed 1334 00:45:41,989 --> 00:45:42,979 at this unexpected twist 1335 00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:44,219 in the plot. 1336 00:45:44,224 --> 00:45:45,055 Frodo had come so far. 1337 00:45:45,058 --> 00:45:47,652 He had sacrificed so much, 1338 00:45:47,661 --> 00:45:49,459 and then, when all he had 1339 00:45:49,463 --> 00:45:51,454 to do was throw the ring 1340 00:45:51,465 --> 00:45:53,024 into the abyss, 1341 00:45:53,033 --> 00:45:56,025 he couldn't do it! 1342 00:45:56,036 --> 00:45:57,834 He had done the hard part. 1343 00:45:57,838 --> 00:45:58,828 He had faced many deadly 1344 00:45:58,839 --> 00:46:01,035 perils, many temptations, 1345 00:46:01,041 --> 00:46:03,305 the strain of sheer 1346 00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:04,800 exhaustion. 1347 00:46:04,812 --> 00:46:06,405 And now, at the last, he 1348 00:46:06,413 --> 00:46:08,745 fails miserably, snatching 1349 00:46:08,749 --> 00:46:09,648 defeat from the very jaws 1350 00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:13,609 of victory. 1351 00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:15,782 I was angry with Tolkien! 1352 00:46:15,789 --> 00:46:17,450 How dare he take away. 1353 00:46:17,458 --> 00:46:19,926 Frodo's moment of glory! 1354 00:46:19,927 --> 00:46:20,826 We don't want our heroes 1355 00:46:20,828 --> 00:46:22,125 to fail. 1356 00:46:22,129 --> 00:46:23,096 We want them to succeed. 1357 00:46:23,097 --> 00:46:28,034 I felt cheated! 1358 00:46:28,035 --> 00:46:30,163 But on subsequent readings 1359 00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:31,899 of the book it became clear 1360 00:46:31,905 --> 00:46:33,168 that this particular scene 1361 00:46:33,173 --> 00:46:36,973 was Tolkien's masterstroke. 1362 00:46:36,977 --> 00:46:37,876 It is perhaps the most 1363 00:46:37,878 --> 00:46:39,141 important twist in the 1364 00:46:39,146 --> 00:46:41,376 whole plot. 1365 00:46:41,381 --> 00:46:42,712 The fact is that we cannot 1366 00:46:42,716 --> 00:46:44,183 overthrow sin by our own 1367 00:46:44,184 --> 00:46:46,448 efforts alone. 1368 00:46:46,453 --> 00:46:47,511 We cannot carry our cross 1369 00:46:47,521 --> 00:46:50,115 on our own. 1370 00:46:50,123 --> 00:46:51,818 We need help. 1371 00:46:51,825 --> 00:46:53,020 To be precise, we need 1372 00:46:53,026 --> 00:46:55,961 the help of God Himself. 1373 00:46:55,963 --> 00:46:57,590 We need His grace 1374 00:46:57,598 --> 00:46:59,464 if we are to overcome sin. 1375 00:46:59,466 --> 00:47:02,800 We can't do it ourselves. 1376 00:47:02,803 --> 00:47:04,100 As such, Gollum becomes a 1377 00:47:04,104 --> 00:47:05,731 paradoxical symbol of grace 1378 00:47:05,739 --> 00:47:07,571 itself, God's miraculous 1379 00:47:07,574 --> 00:47:10,100 intervention to bring good 1380 00:47:10,110 --> 00:47:13,910 out of evil. 1381 00:47:13,914 --> 00:47:14,813 Frodo: Do you remember. 1382 00:47:14,815 --> 00:47:16,249 Gandalf's words, "Even." 1383 00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:17,445 Gollum may have something. 1384 00:47:17,451 --> 00:47:19,510 Vet to do?“ 1385 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:20,749 But for him, Sam, I could 1386 00:47:20,754 --> 00:47:23,052 not have destroyed the ring. 1387 00:47:23,056 --> 00:47:23,921 The quest would have been 1388 00:47:23,924 --> 00:47:24,948 in vain, even at the 1389 00:47:24,958 --> 00:47:27,120 bitter end. 1390 00:47:27,127 --> 00:47:29,425 So let us forgive him! 1391 00:47:29,429 --> 00:47:30,726 For the quest is achieved, 1392 00:47:30,731 --> 00:47:33,632 and now all is over. 1393 00:47:33,634 --> 00:47:34,658 I am glad you are here 1394 00:47:34,668 --> 00:47:36,796 with me, here at the end 1395 00:47:36,803 --> 00:47:39,773 of all things, Sam. 1396 00:47:47,514 --> 00:47:48,640 Joseph: But for Gollum, the 1397 00:47:48,649 --> 00:47:50,481 quest would have failed, and. 1398 00:47:50,484 --> 00:47:51,417 Gollum is only there at the 1399 00:47:51,418 --> 00:47:53,443 end because Bilbo, Frodo, 1400 00:47:53,453 --> 00:47:54,648 and Sam had each, on 1401 00:47:54,655 --> 00:47:56,350 separate occasions, spared 1402 00:47:56,356 --> 00:47:58,290 him his life when they were 1403 00:47:58,292 --> 00:47:59,316 themselves tempted to kill 1404 00:47:59,326 --> 00:48:02,853 him. 1405 00:48:02,863 --> 00:48:04,058 If any of them had succumbed 1406 00:48:04,064 --> 00:48:05,657 to the temptation to slay 1407 00:48:05,666 --> 00:48:07,361 their enemy, the quest would 1408 00:48:07,367 --> 00:48:09,233 have failed. 1409 00:48:09,236 --> 00:48:10,703 The ring, or sin, would have 1410 00:48:10,704 --> 00:48:12,934 defeated them. 1411 00:48:12,940 --> 00:48:14,169 The 3 hobbits had learned 1412 00:48:14,174 --> 00:48:16,506 the hardest lesson of all... 1413 00:48:16,510 --> 00:48:17,944 That it was not enough to 1414 00:48:17,945 --> 00:48:18,969 love our neighbors. 1415 00:48:18,979 --> 00:48:20,071 We had to love our enemies 1416 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,777 also. 1417 00:48:22,783 --> 00:48:23,807 If the hobbits had failed in 1418 00:48:23,817 --> 00:48:25,342 obeying this toughest of. 1419 00:48:25,352 --> 00:48:27,650 Christ's Commandments, the 1420 00:48:27,654 --> 00:48:30,521 ring would have triumphed. 1421 00:48:30,524 --> 00:48:33,960 Sin would have triumphed, 1422 00:48:33,961 --> 00:48:34,951 but because they were 1423 00:48:34,962 --> 00:48:36,521 faithful in keeping this. 1424 00:48:36,530 --> 00:48:37,656 Commandment, Gollum was 1425 00:48:37,664 --> 00:48:39,530 still around as the agent of 1426 00:48:39,533 --> 00:48:40,500 grace that brought about the 1427 00:48:40,501 --> 00:48:45,438 destruction of the ring. 1428 00:48:45,439 --> 00:48:46,338 As if this were not enough 1429 00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:47,273 to prove Tolkien's words 1430 00:48:47,274 --> 00:48:48,673 "that 'The Lord of the Rings" 1431 00:48:48,675 --> 00:48:50,109 is a fundamentally religious 1432 00:48:50,110 --> 00:48:52,010 and Catholic work, there is 1433 00:48:52,012 --> 00:48:53,275 so much more in the story 1434 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,805 that indicates its 1435 00:48:54,815 --> 00:48:56,146 profoundly Christian 1436 00:48:56,149 --> 00:48:58,846 meaning. 1437 00:48:58,852 --> 00:48:59,785 We have no time in such a 1438 00:48:59,786 --> 00:49:01,686 short discussion to study 1439 00:49:01,688 --> 00:49:03,178 the death, resurrection, and 1440 00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:05,249 transfiguration of Gandalf, 1441 00:49:05,258 --> 00:49:06,657 or the Christological 1442 00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:07,889 significance of the Kingship 1443 00:49:07,894 --> 00:49:10,693 of Aragorn; Or the way in 1444 00:49:10,697 --> 00:49:11,721 which the elves illustrate a 1445 00:49:11,732 --> 00:49:13,131 Christian understanding of 1446 00:49:13,133 --> 00:49:14,658 death and a Christian 1447 00:49:14,668 --> 00:49:16,033 understanding of the 1448 00:49:16,036 --> 00:49:17,435 difference between time and 1449 00:49:17,437 --> 00:49:21,965 eternity; Or the way in 1450 00:49:21,975 --> 00:49:24,034 which Boromir, Faramir and. 1451 00:49:24,044 --> 00:49:25,170 Gollum, each in different 1452 00:49:25,178 --> 00:49:26,373 ways, illustrate the 1453 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:28,109 consequences of human 1454 00:49:28,115 --> 00:49:30,049 choices; Or the way in which. 1455 00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:31,108 Treebeard and the Ents offer 1456 00:49:31,118 --> 00:49:33,450 a profound insight into the 1457 00:49:33,453 --> 00:49:35,854 nature of tradition in both 1458 00:49:35,856 --> 00:49:38,188 an ecclesiological and 1459 00:49:38,191 --> 00:49:41,024 etymological sense. 1460 00:49:41,028 --> 00:49:43,656 There is so much more that 1461 00:49:43,664 --> 00:49:44,631 we could say but so little 1462 00:49:44,632 --> 00:49:47,566 time in which to say it. 1463 00:49:47,567 --> 00:49:48,466 Perhaps we will return with 1464 00:49:48,468 --> 00:49:49,629 further programs on this 1465 00:49:49,636 --> 00:49:50,603 most fundamentally. 1466 00:49:50,604 --> 00:49:53,005 Catholic of works. 1467 00:49:53,006 --> 00:49:53,996 For now, I'd like to return 1468 00:49:54,007 --> 00:49:56,475 to Tolkien himself and his 1469 00:49:56,476 --> 00:49:57,637 own exposition of the 1470 00:49:57,644 --> 00:50:01,603 meaning of life. 1471 00:50:01,615 --> 00:50:03,208 In 1969,when Tolkien was 1472 00:50:03,216 --> 00:50:04,809 77 years old and living 1473 00:50:04,818 --> 00:50:06,183 in sedate retirement in 1474 00:50:06,186 --> 00:50:08,154 Bournemouth on England's 1475 00:50:08,155 --> 00:50:09,588 south coast, he received a 1476 00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:10,988 letter from a young girl 1477 00:50:10,991 --> 00:50:12,823 who was working on a school 1478 00:50:12,826 --> 00:50:14,260 project, asking him, "What is" 1479 00:50:14,261 --> 00:50:18,255 the purpose of life?" 1480 00:50:18,265 --> 00:50:19,198 Tolkien's reply exhibits 1481 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:20,689 his own profoundly mystical. 1482 00:50:20,701 --> 00:50:25,901 Catholic faith. 1483 00:50:25,906 --> 00:50:27,067 Tolkien: It may be said that 1484 00:50:27,074 --> 00:50:28,064 the chief purpose of life, 1485 00:50:28,075 --> 00:50:30,442 for any one of us, is to 1486 00:50:30,444 --> 00:50:32,572 increase according to our 1487 00:50:32,579 --> 00:50:34,206 capacity, our knowledge of. 1488 00:50:34,214 --> 00:50:35,875 God by all the means we 1489 00:50:35,882 --> 00:50:37,748 have, and to be moved by 1490 00:50:37,751 --> 00:50:41,551 it to praise and thanks. 1491 00:50:41,555 --> 00:50:42,545 To do as we say in the. 1492 00:50:42,556 --> 00:50:46,015 "Gloria in Excel sis;." 1493 00:50:46,026 --> 00:50:48,017 Laudamus te, benedicamus te, 1494 00:50:48,028 --> 00:50:51,521 adoramus te, glorificamus te, 1495 00:50:51,531 --> 00:50:54,364 gratias agimus tibi propter 1496 00:50:54,367 --> 00:50:57,200 magnam gloriam tuam. 1497 00:50:57,204 --> 00:50:58,671 "We praise You, we call." 1498 00:50:58,672 --> 00:51:01,403 You Holy, we worship You, 1499 00:51:01,408 --> 00:51:04,070 we proclaim Your glory, we 1500 00:51:04,077 --> 00:51:05,567 thank You for the greatness 1501 00:51:05,579 --> 00:51:07,809 of Your splendor. 1502 00:51:07,814 --> 00:51:08,872 And in moments of 1503 00:51:08,882 --> 00:51:10,680 exaltation we may call on 1504 00:51:10,684 --> 00:51:12,914 all created things to join 1505 00:51:12,919 --> 00:51:15,047 us in our chorus, speaking 1506 00:51:15,055 --> 00:51:17,854 on their behalf, as is done 1507 00:51:17,858 --> 00:51:19,849 in Psalm 148,and in the. 1508 00:51:19,860 --> 00:51:21,487 Song of the Three Children 1509 00:51:21,495 --> 00:51:23,929 in Daniel 2, "Praise the." 1510 00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:25,694 Lord, all mountains and 1511 00:51:25,699 --> 00:51:27,531 hills, all orchards and 1512 00:51:27,534 --> 00:51:29,161 forests, all things that 1513 00:51:29,169 --> 00:51:30,364 creep, and birds on the 1514 00:51:30,370 --> 00:51:35,672 "wing." 1515 00:51:35,675 --> 00:51:36,836 Joseph: It is almost time to 1516 00:51:36,843 --> 00:51:38,106 end our brief exploration 1517 00:51:38,111 --> 00:51:39,044 of 'The Catholicism of 'The. 1518 00:51:39,045 --> 00:51:40,911 ("Lord of the Rings)" but 1519 00:51:40,914 --> 00:51:41,779 we still have time for a 1520 00:51:41,782 --> 00:51:43,272 practical and cautionary 1521 00:51:43,283 --> 00:51:44,808 lesson that the book 1522 00:51:44,818 --> 00:51:47,685 teaches us. 1523 00:51:47,687 --> 00:51:49,314 In the story, the palantiri, 1524 00:51:49,322 --> 00:51:50,483 the seeing stones, are used 1525 00:51:50,490 --> 00:51:52,754 by Sauron to feed propaganda 1526 00:51:52,759 --> 00:51:53,885 to the free peoples of 1527 00:51:53,894 --> 00:51:57,262 middle-earth. 1528 00:51:57,264 --> 00:51:58,231 In particular, Denethor, 1529 00:51:58,232 --> 00:52:00,097 the steward of Minas Tirith, 1530 00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:01,261 becomes addicted to looking 1531 00:52:01,268 --> 00:52:03,134 into the palantir to 1532 00:52:03,136 --> 00:52:04,126 discover what the enemy 1533 00:52:04,137 --> 00:52:07,163 is up to. 1534 00:52:07,174 --> 00:52:08,039 What he doesn't realize is 1535 00:52:08,041 --> 00:52:09,736 that the seeing stone is 1536 00:52:09,743 --> 00:52:10,801 actually controlled by the 1537 00:52:10,811 --> 00:52:13,178 enemy, by Sauron, and that 1538 00:52:13,180 --> 00:52:14,238 he only sees in the stone 1539 00:52:14,247 --> 00:52:15,578 what Sauron wants him. 1540 00:52:15,582 --> 00:52:18,950 YO SEE. 1541 00:52:18,952 --> 00:52:19,919 It is not that the palantir 1542 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:20,853 is showing complete lies, 1543 00:52:20,854 --> 00:52:22,219 but it is only showing 1544 00:52:22,222 --> 00:52:25,283 one side of the story. 1545 00:52:25,292 --> 00:52:26,350 Denethor sees in the 1546 00:52:26,359 --> 00:52:27,554 palantir how invincible is 1547 00:52:27,561 --> 00:52:29,893 the enemy's might and he 1548 00:52:29,896 --> 00:52:30,988 becomes convinced that 1549 00:52:30,997 --> 00:52:34,262 Sauron, or satan, is bound 1550 00:52:34,267 --> 00:52:36,133 to win the coming war and 1551 00:52:36,136 --> 00:52:37,126 will overthrow Denethor's 1552 00:52:37,137 --> 00:52:38,536 own people and all the 1553 00:52:38,538 --> 00:52:41,667 peoples of Middle-earth. 1554 00:52:41,675 --> 00:52:43,200 In despair, believing that 1555 00:52:43,210 --> 00:52:44,473 resistance to satan OI' 1556 00:52:44,477 --> 00:52:46,639 Sauron is pointless and 1557 00:52:46,646 --> 00:52:49,308 futile, he commits suicide 1558 00:52:49,316 --> 00:52:51,283 and, in so doing, almost 1559 00:52:51,284 --> 00:52:52,581 brings ruin upon his own. 1560 00:52:52,586 --> 00:52:55,554 People. 1561 00:52:55,555 --> 00:52:57,022 Bearing this in mind, it is 1562 00:52:57,023 --> 00:52:58,047 interesting that palantir 1563 00:52:58,058 --> 00:53:01,824 in elvish means "fa r-seer," 1564 00:53:01,828 --> 00:53:04,797 which, in German, "Fernsehen", 1565 00:53:04,798 --> 00:53:07,130 means television, and 1566 00:53:07,133 --> 00:53:08,066 indeed the English word, 1567 00:53:08,068 --> 00:53:09,558 television, also means 1568 00:53:09,569 --> 00:53:12,368 far-seer or far-seeing, 1569 00:53:12,372 --> 00:53:13,533 being a combination of tele, 1570 00:53:13,540 --> 00:53:15,167 which is Greek for far, 1571 00:53:15,175 --> 00:53:16,267 and vision, from the Latin, 1572 00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:19,371 video, to see. 1573 00:53:19,379 --> 00:53:20,972 It seems that Tolkien is 1574 00:53:20,981 --> 00:53:22,176 warning us that if we watch 1575 00:53:22,182 --> 00:53:23,411 too much television, 1576 00:53:23,416 --> 00:53:26,317 we will commit suicide! 1577 00:53:26,319 --> 00:53:28,014 Dear viewer, heed Tolkien's 1578 00:53:28,021 --> 00:53:29,716 words of warning and avoid 1579 00:53:29,723 --> 00:53:31,156 the temptation to spend more 1580 00:53:31,157 --> 00:53:33,592 time with your TV, PC, 1581 00:53:33,593 --> 00:53:35,425 i-pod, X-box or any other 1582 00:53:35,428 --> 00:53:38,261 form of virtual reality. 1583 00:53:38,265 --> 00:53:39,289 Keep your feet on the 1584 00:53:39,299 --> 00:53:40,528 ground, your heart in. 1585 00:53:40,533 --> 00:53:42,001 Heaven, and your mind 1586 00:53:42,002 --> 00:53:45,165 on reality! 1587 00:53:45,171 --> 00:53:47,037 Having ended on a somewhat 1588 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,166 whimsical, if nonetheless 1589 00:53:48,174 --> 00:53:49,699 serious note, I'd like to 1590 00:53:49,709 --> 00:53:51,268 leave the last word to. 1591 00:53:51,278 --> 00:53:53,746 Tolkien himself. 1592 00:53:53,747 --> 00:53:54,908 Thanks for joining us on our 1593 00:53:54,915 --> 00:53:56,474 journey in the quest for. 1594 00:53:56,483 --> 00:53:58,281 "The Catholicism of 'The. 1595 00:53:58,285 --> 00:54:00,652 Lord of the Rings!" 1596 00:54:00,654 --> 00:54:02,019 Here's Tolkien on the 1597 00:54:02,022 --> 00:54:03,956 beauty of the Blessed. 1598 00:54:03,957 --> 00:54:05,789 Sacrament. 1599 00:54:11,064 --> 00:54:12,964 Tolkien: Out of the darkness 1600 00:54:12,966 --> 00:54:14,866 of my life so much 1601 00:54:14,868 --> 00:54:17,360 frustrated, I put before you 1602 00:54:17,370 --> 00:54:19,065 the one great thing to love 1603 00:54:19,072 --> 00:54:22,064 on earth... the Blessed. 1604 00:54:22,075 --> 00:54:26,011 Sacrament. 1605 00:54:26,012 --> 00:54:27,707 In It you will find romance, 1606 00:54:27,714 --> 00:54:30,182 glory, honor, fidelity, and 1607 00:54:30,183 --> 00:54:31,309 the true path of all your 1608 00:54:31,318 --> 00:54:33,150 loves on earth, and more 1609 00:54:33,153 --> 00:54:37,750 than that, death. 1610 00:54:37,757 --> 00:54:39,521 By the Divine Paradox, that 1611 00:54:39,526 --> 00:54:41,324 which ends life, and demands 1612 00:54:41,328 --> 00:54:42,989 the surrender of all, and by 1613 00:54:42,996 --> 00:54:44,486 the taste or foretaste of 1614 00:54:44,497 --> 00:54:46,158 which alone can all that 1615 00:54:46,166 --> 00:54:47,691 you desire in your earthly 1616 00:54:47,701 --> 00:54:49,328 relationships; Love, 1617 00:54:49,336 --> 00:54:50,803 faithfulness, joy, be 1618 00:54:50,804 --> 00:54:53,136 maintained, or take on the 1619 00:54:53,139 --> 00:54:55,938 complexion of reality, of 1620 00:54:55,942 --> 00:54:59,037 eternal endurance, which the 1621 00:54:59,045 --> 00:55:01,946 heart of every man desires. 102386

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