Original subtitles

Searching for a place at the shore to hide my face, and lying for two nights.

A few years before holding these dusty records in my hands for the first time,

a friend sent me a song called Strange Dream that had

been recorded in 1975 by a Zambian band called Witch.

The music and the album cover created an

atmosphere in my mind that completely blew me away.

I had no idea where Zambia was, or how such incredible music could have

been recorded there by what looked like a bunch of misfits.

It turned out that Witch was actually part of a whole scene called Zamrock,

which mixed traditional African rhythms with heavy psychedelic rock, and was just

beginning to be heard outside of Zambia thanks

to a few dedicated labels reissuing the music.

In July 2014, while I was shooting a session with Yakko Gardner in his band,

I got a call from some friends asking me to join

them on a cross-continental expedition across Africa.

The moment I found out that on the journey I was about to embark on we would be

passing through Zambia, and I knew I had to find out more about Zamrock and Witch.

I did some research and discovered that most of the musicians from the time had

died, with the members of Witch being no exception, apart

from their lead singer Jaggery, who was now a gemstone miner.

This is Zambia, here, deep in the heart of Africa.

There it comes.

There it comes.

There it comes now.

Introduction.

Introduction.

All the Witch.

All the Witch.

How do you get

the pimps under on their base?

Get a king, Belanga, on their grounds.

That mad boy, Zincala.

Zidachi, Vokos, Chanda.

Inspired by my ever-growing passion for his music and fascination for his person,

I made it my prerogative to try and get Jaggery

and Witch the recognition they deserved.

After having come back from my African expedition,

Yako, his drummer Nick and I kept in touch.

They were increasingly curious about African music from the 1970s and wanted to

experience it firsthand, so I invited them to Zambia to

explore one of the continent's most unique sub-genres.

I'm just really curious how we connect.

We are from totally different backgrounds, the music

and stuff, but we like the same things, apparently.

Yeah, because of the influence that are similar in witch,

like the Black Sabbath and stuff that we also really like.

And then also, we're getting a lot into African music as well.

That's more African sounding.

The witch was Jaggery at one time.

Because everybody who went to watch the witch, because Jaggery was idle,

he would not appear on stage.

He would agree with them at the time when he...

and he would start to be playing something.

They're playing and from nowhere, Jaggery would run in.

And how he runs in, that's another.

And then he picks up the microphones.

There I was expecting Jaggery to be playing using four microphones.

They were thinking, why give you four microphones?

They don't understand.

I understand.

And those who were in Jaggery's time would understand.

Because he would sing from that one, that one, that one.

This one, he throws up and Jaggery was Jaggery.

His legs were swift and faster, and you think he's going to break his legs?

Jaggery is actually crazier than me.

Having seen only about five photographs of witch, but having heard that they were all

over TV in the 70s, I went to Zanis, the state-owned television company,

which supposedly kept a 16-millimeter archive.

There, archivist Milton told me about an archive room that

hadn't been opened in 17 years because the key had been lost.

Zambia was one of the first countries in Southern Africa

to achieve independence from their colonial masters.

They did so in October 1964, thanks to the efforts of Dr. Kenneth Kaunda,

who as a follower of Gandhi freed the country

from British dominion largely through nonviolence.

Zambia's initially wealthy economy depended on copper and quickly became an

example as a progressive and newly liberated African country.

However, in the early 70s, when copper prices dropped and a one-party rule was

imposed by the president, Zambia started heading towards a crisis.

Between state documentaries and didactical films, I finally found the music section.

But you see that here we have a few music times.

Oh, the music time is the same as time for music.

Which were here, right?

Cool, I can't wait to see what's in there.

That's James Brown.

That scene, I'm not really going to say anything

until we see some pictures on that screen.

Never seen before footage of James Brown performing in Zambia in 1970.

His visit was something that Zambians took close to

their hearts, both in political and musical terms.

Still, no which to be found.

It appeared that the band either played live or that if it was taped and the

president went to, say, Uganda the next week, it would have been taped over.

Nonetheless, mentioned Zamrock to Inazuma and anybody that lived its time,

and this will happen.

This music actually inspired me.

Rocks me off.

Breaks me off.

A lot of dancing.

You could see people like this with high heels, shoes and bell-bottom trousers.

And do the boogaloo one time.

I got it.

Jagger was actually a model to us.

So amazing, all some stuff.

Jagger would perform sympathy for the devil, and he would go wild.

The stage used to be small for him.

The rhythm section would kill him.

You'd have something going on.

The drummer used to roll in there.

The bassist giving you everything, and then maybe when

they start dancing now, everybody would draw in it.

Now it was, you become part of, we intend to cause havoc.

If you were Jagger Richard at that time, if you were known as Jagger Richard,

then you were a big star.

Which were actually the most feared band.

When they are in town, it would mean after 20 hours, you will not have any people.

They would have all gone to the witch.

Everybody would be waiting for Jagger here.

Then when it happens to come, they will be a music again that you bring him on stage.

Jumping on stage, going this way, taking mics

somewhere there, passing up somewhere there.

Yes.

I can imagine that he's really excited as well, that after so many years,

people are unexpectedly putting a lot of effort in...

in documenting this part of his life.

That his music is still alive.

I can imagine that maybe he thought it was already forgotten.

Or maybe he almost feels like it's bringing it

back from the dead or something, from the music.

It's cool, because we listened a lot to his

music and now we see the man behind the music.

Yeah.

It's like meeting Paul McCartney of Africa.

Yeah, exactly.

It's gonna be a really...

I hope I don't get too... Starstruck.

We should be all right.

Jagger will come with the tone trousers.

Sorry for that.

One short time, whatever.

Jagger will jump from some tall buildings.

Jagger will... Jagger will do anything.

I never saw him jump into the bathtub.

But if the bathtub was closer to what Jagger would... Jagger would do anything.

But in that, he would be seen.

That's another trademark of Jagger.

Jagger was with a dull person to watch.

Good to see you.

Yeah, yeah.

Well done.

Jagger?

Yes.

Hi.

I guess this is Nick.

Nice to meet you, too.

Nice to meet you, too.

Wow.

The man himself.

You okay?

Yes, how are you?

All right, thank you.

I've heard so much about you.

Just great.

Yeah?

Pleasure.

Indeed.

The more time I spent with Jaggery, the more I started to get to know both of

Lamboy and Rockstar from the 1970s and the present-day religious devotee.

These two personalities would often have to fight internal battles between what

felt right and what had been indoctrinated.

Leaving a man whose dreams had been jaded by the circumstances around him.

His musical dreams had almost vanished into memories, and he often spent two

weeks or more in near solitude at an amethyst mine six hours drive south of

Lusaka, digging and hoping to find a streak that would

help his family make it through to the end of the month.

Jaggery was up there, I mean, the whole witch

band, you know, they were extremely popular.

I mean, they were extremely popular.

They drew crowds, you know, the packed auditoriums,

you know, they were the happening band.

You know, if you didn't know who they were, then...

After independence, what was Southern Odisha

then, which is in Balboa, declared UDI in 1965.

That created a lot of tensions.

But Zambia was also right in the middle of countries

that were all still fighting for their liberation.

So we had Angola and Mozambique, Southern Odisha.

These were colonies.

Zambia was never a colony, it was a territory.

So their struggles were much more violent and much more prolonged than ours.

And so that sometimes meant that we actually had to fire a few shots across borders.

And a couple of times, this country was bombed.

So when those kind of things happened, normally the government would declare curfew.

And that meant that you had to be inside your house.

Everything blacked out from six o'clock in

the evening until six o'clock in the morning.

We were constantly on alert.

That did affect...

The first one person was John.

I think John or Paul, the keyboard player, died in Kitwe.

Paul died in Mansa.

Gidon died in Tanzania because when he lost his

mind, at one point I took him to a mental hospital.

But I was only allowed to be a guardian for 14 days.

They couldn't allow me to represent his family.

And so I got in touch with the family and they came and took him back to Tanzania.

Then Boyd died.

Chris was the last one to die.

I was expecting Chris to outlive me because he never drank, he never smoked.

He was a very sober, serious musician.

When we went to record in South Africa, sometimes they found me drinking,

watching TV or something.

They kept saying, you should stop drinking, you know why God has preserved our lives.

Eventually I was left alone from the original setup of the band.

Initially it was just a switch on the broom street, flying at night.

Accompanied by other wizards and witches.

Then we called ourselves witch and dead.

Before a graphic artist was writing something on our car.

We said, no, we can use this as an acronym.

We intend to cause havoc.

The center fan hysteria there was such that the hall where the boys played at its

roof, ripped off as exuberant fans tried to find their way through the windows,

walls and everywhere.

It should be unfair for me to give the tag on my friends.

As having died of AIDS, because I'm not a qualified physician, I never saw their

death certificates to read the cause of death.

But while I've said that, it's also true that during that time, it took long for

people to realize and try to look after themselves.

It took a long time to realize that this courage is serious.

I never intended to become a physician.

At one time, I considered being a soldier until I learned

that if you wanted to be a soldier, you cut your afro.

That discouraged me.

So I said, no, I don't want to cut my afro and things like that.

I'm trying to find a house for my old, old, old friend.

His name is George Condan, but we called him Groovy Joe.

He was the first drummer for the witch and also is

the man that actually put me into serious music.

And so you are so fat now.

What's going on?

You are thin.

Why?

I don't know.

I don't understand why you are fat and why I'm...

Baby like a chicken in the kitchen You look like

a chicken, baby Baby like a chicken in the basket

Yes, you can still remember it.

I wanted the band to succeed, but when I left, he carried on.

But look at us.

What's this in the head?

We used to have afros.

You've got that too.

You're still keeping this thing?

Yeah.

The same influence?

Some sweet leave.

I think... Beautiful, man.

I'm happy to go home indeed.

Yes, that's very good.

I wish the whole band was alive.

We would have demonstrated what Sam Rock was and things at its peak.

But you can't always get what you want.

So the old songs go on.

The pity, but at least there are two of us alive.

One day we should find the way... of how we can maneuver around.

Something will come up, I'm quite sure.

It can't just end here.

This is a new beginning.

You have grandchildren and you call yourself boys again and again.

My grandchildren sometimes call me a boy.

But we are not boys.

We are not boys, yes.

We are no more boys.

But it feels great to be in your company.

I feel much younger.

I'm sure it's going to take me a couple of hours before I fall asleep.

I'll be imagining I'm still with you.

It's

your peace to you.

First show actually was not our own show.

Black souls were famous in town.

So we asked if we could allow us two or three songs.

And they agreed to that.

I guess that was the mistake on their part.

We just sang about three or four songs and the manager said, oh, you have to stop.

Everybody would say, no, let them to play.

We wanted to do it.

It was now Kingston Market changing to The Witch.

By that time.

I remember maybe in the whole area of Chimuemui, only two families at TV said.

Until some people were telling me, hey, you sing like Mick Jagger.

And then my name just went Jagger, Jagger.

And I said, how can I run away from... I don't want to be in somebody's shadow.

So I said, okay, suppose I put a Y to Jagger.

It became Jaggery.

So I went to the dictionary and I found Jaggery is that brown sugar.

If you remember, we used to put sugar on a pan and make our own sweets, they're brown.

So I said, oh, this is Jaggery.

I don't mind being Jaggery, because this is different from that person.

We were supposed to be doing an album Peie.

And we didn't want the albums to sound the same.

So sometimes I would get on a train from Kitwe to Ndola.

Now I start trying to say it.

You could make some sound out of that.

You can arrange that towards the end of the song.

You could change to that.

Or when you're changing to another feel, you could probably slow the rhythm down.

After I was satisfied with the rhythm, then I

would look for a vinyl record that is scratched.

Okay, either it's scratched or I change the speed.

And now I'm giving the secrets of composition.

And I would put the stylus.

I didn't care.

I used an old stylus and put it there.

You

produced your first album.

The first time that we had the first music by Zambians.

It was really amazing.

And you could go to these guys who own this record player, you know, play back.

And you could hang around the witch dances those days.

I used to laugh at your mashed potatoes.

Then my son would say, Can you call that a man?

Tell us what it means.

Singering.

Singering.

The rock in Zamrock was heavily inspired by the British invasion bands of the 60s,

who in turn were obsessed with Chicago blues musicians, many of whom in the 40s

had emigrated north from the cotton plantations, and whose ancestors had been

brought over by slave ships from Africa, a

century-long full circle of musical bastardizations.

It was easier for me to walk from there and go to Evelynon College.

That's where I was teaching.

You guys are very good at harmonies and things like that.

Very special arrangements.

But to us, rhythm comes naturally.

We have small things that fascinate you.

Enough time has passed for me to move on.

As long as the witch music keeps resounding, the memories of them will never fade.

I have a family and there's no way I can pass a day without thinking about my family.

I've been blessed by God.

I rarely go to hospital, unless there's a bomb that will

just explode one day and then send me to the ground.

One time I tried, I brought a bulldozer here.

You see those big, big rocks?

It pushed from those pits there.

This is a byproduct of that stuff.

You put it on the fire to...

I don't believe my talents are in mining.

It's just some circumstances that forced me to come and do these things.

I was introduced to mining by my late nephew.

And when I lost my job, I still question that.

I don't know whether it's God's will that I should be mining, but I'm more

comfortable teaching music or creating it and performing it.

I never lived with my parents most of my life.

I only lived with my parents maybe the first seven

or eight years of my life before I started school.

My older brother asked that I should come here

where there was better education facilities.

I had no idea where I was going and what was happening.

I was going to school.

It was quite young.

It was a big contrast.

In the villages, I was only able to associate

myself with the music scenes a few times.

Once when they killed the lion, and you know, to them it was a very big achievement.

So they had songs for that, war songs.

So they could dance around that lion to the

big lion and then they would open its mouth.

You could see the teeth in there and that has never faded from my memory.

And then also in the village, you grew up quicker because you are given

responsibilities to kill the lion and things like that.

An incredible thing to happen, to have a record by a Zambian

band and it was a real revelation for the rest of us.

It was kind of opening a doorway that nobody had kind of peeped through before.

You could actually go to the...

you know, there were certain stalls that you could buy these records from and you

could go and buy this record and play and hear these people.

I think what was different is because you could actually see them, you knew them.

It wasn't you listening to the Rolling Stones or something.

You were actually listening to a band with people who were singing in your language.

People were dressing like them.

People were dancing like them and trying to sing like them.

It really opened up and out so that people just felt like these guys can do it,

we can do it, and inspired a lot of other people to actually just jump on stage and

grab a guitar and actually start doing that as well.

So, you know, you suddenly get all these rock bands coming up.

If Jaggery was the Mick Jagger of Zambia, Victor Casoma of the Oscillations was

widely regarded as the country's Jimi Hendrix, a guitar freak that would only

stop shredding when he got rheumatisms in his hands.

Having been affected by the polio virus as a child, he was

bound by a wheelchair for most of his life, but not on stage.

Something would just motivate me inside and say that's not enough.

I would flip over my chair and I would throw

out the guitar with that aesthetic sound.

Before the sound dies down, I would go there and do something

else, either take it with my teeth, single by single.

I would squeeze my teeth like that and if that is not satisfactory, I would have to

do something, anything that... I didn't just undress, but I did.

Okay, thanks.

Hi.

Sorry, I was talking to my wife.

Sorry, can I answer my wife, please?

Of course.

Hi.

Two Torren's record players.

I'll bring you back.

This is really cool, though.

Okay, now that's all right.

I'll bring you back.

Even the paper is really old.

Is this on a Lazy Bone record from which?

That wasn't it, but at the time we recorded that, those were there.

In fact, I'll show you the machine that recorded Lazy Bones, trying to go...

Wow, the witch records look so cool.

This one is the...

That's the first one they did.

Wow, this is so cool.

The reissue is exactly the same, even a little logo or something.

So how many bands have been recorded here in the studio?

Oh, many, many, many bands.

I can't even remember.

Hundreds?

Hundreds of bands, and some of them are, you know, dead.

All of them, some of them.

Live, you know.

But now, many, many, many.

This is the band we are talking about.

The oscillations.

Wow, the lost record everybody was looking for.

Do you have a record player here?

That's him, Victor.

Yes, that's the one that... Wow, that's Victor.

This is Victor.

Cool.

That's the one that... Wow.

I remember those 10 tables, actually.

Dedicated to Victor's late old queen.

We have no... Mario, Belita, Longa, Rapai, Kunda, and to the lovely Zambian people.

Wow.

This is the machine, which recorded the most... talked about, Lazy Bones.

It was manufactured, I think, in 1950.

And the 50s in... Yeah.

Yeah.

This thing still works?

It still works.

If we were to switch it on, it would go on.

But since it's valves, you know, they take at least about some time to warm up.

And, you know...

It's a pretty heavy machine.

It's like an army... Army equipment.

And... Yeah, this is really nice.

But it still works.

It still works.

And they're hoping that one day I'll switch it on.

We walked over there, where you've seen that tree, as you get into the river.

There was a raft made out of wood.

But I think over the years, it was overgrown with weed and things.

It was amazing.

The first album was with two record... and the two record contract was Lazy Bones.

They asked us to come and record the album here in Osaka at DB Studios because they

understood it had better quality than Malachite Studios.

And then, fortunately, it sold quite well.

We were told it sold about 7,000 copies in three weeks.

You don't love me.

That's when I realized, hey, it's your mama's leg.

You got a Lazy Bones.

Lazy Bones.

Lazy Bones.

If you're feeling depressed, low, disturbed, irritable, out of sorts,

sad, frustrated, or wildly demented than folks, we suggest you seek out a quiet

place, indulge in some soothing meditation, and cut away that headache by

listening to this inspirational album right on which...

Young man, come in.

Come in, young man.

You are the one to say, come, come, come, come.

May I say, come in.

Come, come, come, come.

Young man, you OK?

How are you, sir?

Good to see you, boy.

Wow.

Good to see you.

I really missed you, man.

I was far, far away.

But we still talked on phone.

Nicola?

Nicola is a drummer.

Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Yako?

Pleasure.

Bass and vocals?

Yes.

He has also recorded a lot of stuff, which we will hear later.

Wow.

The two of them will be playing with two of us.

Somewhere, starting from tomorrow, we go to rehearse.

When we are tired, we go home until the repertoire is like this.

Then on Friday, we perform a concert.

Wow.

The mining I'm doing, that is not my calling.

I went there because I hoped that I could strike big.

Every day I wake up and I'm breathing and I'm strong and healthy.

I see hope.

One time, when he invited me to go and watch him play music.

When I watched him perform, oh my God, he just took my heart.

And that's how I fell in love with him.

It was love at first sight.

What was between me and Emanu was just... was not easy.

Because that time, there were so many women that loved him.

The women that would follow him.

But the love that he showed was different.

He treated me like a queen.

And I treated him like a king.

I made a difference, actually.

He told me I was so young, but so different from all the women that I've met.

It was so good.

I loved Emanu from that time.

I would watch him play music.

I was not ashamed to run on the stage, wipe his sweat.

I would hug him and kiss him in public.

And it made him so proud and the friends didn't like it.

But I didn't bother because something inside me was telling me this is the one.

Even my brothers, they were very disappointed with me

because they wanted me to go out of the country for studies.

They thought I really brought myself low because I went out with a musician.

They wanted me to find somebody maybe higher than him.

Go to maybe America or UK.

Do the studies up to maybe master's degree or something.

Then I'd marry.

But what God... The plans, really.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

God's plans are not our plans.

We are in the hearts and follow our feelings inwards.

Ah, this is the place.

1234.

Ah, great.

And something like that changed.

But it was almost adjustable here, with that bako.

But even though we didn't adjust anything, when you measured the heads.

And then it was like a flower-power thing, okay?

The size is adjustable according to the belt.

I think so.

I guess inches 23.

23?

Yeah.

I'm that big.

Yes.

And how big do you think the bako should be?

About one and a half inches.

No, two maybe.

Or two?

Yeah.

Deal.

For the sake of the old, old times.

Every day there was something new that was really funny that happened.

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes Jak and I were looking at each other.

Like, what is happening?

Like, sometimes we don't know what's happening.

Like, Victor is trying to play this lick, and Jack is screaming.

And it continued so long, it kind of slapped stick or something.

I don't know.

It took maybe 15 minutes or something.

The king is lying in the tomb.

Dear God, it's so fun to sing.

You come and get me out of this place.

Can I try it on?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's already there for sale, or you're just trying to design it for somebody?

Yeah, it's for sale.

It's for sale?

I can take it for sale, it's right that way.

It's so nice to make music with people that don't think too much about what other

people think of it, or what the rules are or something.

See that?

All of which...

on both posts.

My new dad will be...

chowned out.

All right, please, kids.

Let's get on the guitar.

All right.

Yaku and Nick's Xambian experience revived songs

that had been heard live in more than 40 years.

The cat was out of the bag.

And after the concert, they made their way back

to Europe, hoping to explore the song further.

It really affected the whole family, because it was

at a time when Emmanuel and I were planning something.

Actually, we're planning to even go out of the country or something.

It was just a victim of circumstances because of his nephew.

So his nephew ran away.

He didn't know what he was involved in.

So they caught him, brought him home, searched the whole house.

They threw our things, papers everywhere in the bedrooms.

He was innocent.

He didn't know what to say.

And they took him to the police.

He was detained.

Then after some days, they took him to the prison.

It was on TV, in the newspapers.

It was a very sad moment.

One of the saddest moments that we've ever experienced.

Until God came through for us, we got back together again as a family.

I was born again first before Emmanuel.

And that time, Emmanuel was still socializing, drinking and whatever he did.

When he was fired, he had to come to Jesus.

That's the time he said he wanted to come to church.

I thank God because people were very understanding.

So they didn't care about what my husband was doing.

They cared about me.

And my pastor said it's about you.

When you pray hard, it's going to come to Jesus.

The crime that I was accused of committed, I didn't commit it.

I was accused of having imported drugs from India.

I've never been to India.

And I never even saw the stuff I was accused of having important.

I just saw some boxes in court that I was a part of that.

I was a government employee.

So immediately they hear you are arrested.

You are put on suspension.

And the suspension took about a year, two years or something.

You know, if you haven't done something and you say, the

truth will come out and they'll be set free, I'll continue.

And then it didn't come out that way.

My family was scattered.

We were squatting with people and so many bad things happened.

I lost my job and I didn't know what to do with my family.

I lost the pension as well.

But God helped us in so many ways.

And the grace introduced me to a Pentecostal church pastor.

And I was told for the first time, you must be born again, things like that.

And then in my quest to search the new life,

they were telling me, don't play world music.

Those records break them and throw them.

They are evil things and things.

Others were telling me, but God is going to ask you.

I give you talent.

Why didn't you use it?

You can still play music.

You can't play that kind of music.

So I was at Crossroads for some time.

I had so many sermons.

I had so many speeches.

I read books.

I read the Bible.

Things come to the point where I said, this makes sense.

This doesn't make sense.

You know, sometimes you have this feeling that you are...

waiting the troubles away by drinking and having fun.

But when you're sober again, those troubles come back.

And you don't have the answers, because you're not

thinking over them and the sober circumstances.

As a head of the family, you need to be really sober to sort things out.

I still believe that that was the way God was calling me.

He blocked this door and the other door, and then He

opened the other doors to show that He still cared for me.

Yeah.

1980 was a big game-changer.

Disco music came on.

Obviously, that was not sustainable, so it was exactly what we felt.

It was not quite fitting with the direction where the band was going.

And that completely killed the band.

It was actually on a world stage what they were

doing in the 70s even before I joined them.

I think if that group was in the West, I think it would be a totally different story.

Patrick Mandela, the classically trained keyboard player that would lead the witch

during their disco phase and after Jaggery's departure from the band,

moved to England in the late 80s after a religious epiphany.

That's all for today.

See you next time.

The first time I met Jaggery, I dreamt of bringing his energy to fans such as

myself, whose minds traveled thanks to his music and

never thought they would be able to share the witch life.

But here we were, about to embark on his first-ever

European tour 40 years after his last record came out.

I come from the UK, originally from Zambia.

Originally from Bulgaria, living in Switzerland.

I'm Dutch.

Germany.

From the Netherlands.

And I play the bass in the witch.

Occupation.

Musicians stroke teachers stroke minor.

Musicians play the guitar.

Musicians sing the song.

Musicians sing the song.

Musicians sing the song.

Musicians sing the song.

Musicians sing the song.

This is for my church.

Since 15.

Oh!

Is what.

Last time, the drummer was complaining about his death.

So I determined in my heart that I should bring him something of interest.

When I got to testify at my church, I just came from a tour of Europe.

You guys, the grammar here is something for you, don't complain, play well.

It's been a marathon, you know.

Arrived on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, we were racing.

It's a marathon for my voice.

We are getting ready.

There's a time that I thought my voice was going,

but towards the end, I decided to come back.

I think if someone says we are excommunicating you from the church

because you play which music, I'll go with that.

It's part of me, like I said.

That's part of me.

And I don't see anything wrong.

I don't see anything in that music that is against God.

In my prayers, I ask him, if I'm doing the wrong thing, don't allow it.

Because I can't see what you see as God.

If it's leading me to wrong things, don't allow it.

There's nothing wrong with the which music.

This is why they'll call me and I'll go and play the which music.

They'll call me in the US, in Europe and I'll go and play that music.

Let the people that want to condemn me continue condemning me.

Maybe we'll meet at the gate between heaven and hell.

At this moment in his life, he has this tremendous opportunity not just to

celebrate something that's of the past, but celebrate

something that people are discovering now as new.

I mean, it's kind of crazy that he can be out there

performing, but I've seen him perform live three times now.

He's an energetic performer that the Mad Libs show.

I mean, he was doing push-ups on stage and all types of stuff like that.

He showed me the work that he does to mine gemstones where they're basically using

pickaxes and digging concrete hard dirt all day long.

And I was like, OK, so doing 30 push-ups on stage and jumping up and doing another

song is obviously not that big of a deal to you.

See you after the show.

It's cool that there's so many young musicians that love this music because

obviously his bandmates are all dead, with the exception

of Patrick from the later incarnation of which.

So it's kind of cool to see, you know, that energy

exchange between him and these younger musicians.

You know, because he's a little bit older, but I mean,

because of the work that he does, he's in tremendous shape.

I got it.

You know, there's these things that I feel when music is good at my back.

The sound is balanced, everybody knows what they are doing.

I get driven being a frontman that people want to see.

Sometimes I think I overdid that and I got so tired because I believed in myself that

if I don't sweat after two songs, then I'm not working.

After we sing two, three songs and now I'm sweating all over,

that gave me a feeling of doing the right thing and working hard.

But at the end, no worries.

So sometimes I was overtired and I would say to the crowd,

we'll give you one or two more, then we're going to go.

And they're thinking the show is still on.

Thank you.

Enjoyed it very, very much.

There were people that confessed that they had traveled from as far as Spain,

Sweden, another part of Europe for that show.

And it was a Monday night.

Very unusual to have that kind of crowd.

But we had a good audience.

Last night, I think the word we were saying was amazing because, like Jagger

was saying, I didn't expect that number of people.

But as we got on stage, you could actually see people were loving every note,

every word that was being sang.

They would just take it all in.

And it was just such a warm, energy and response.

Just made you feel like, wow, you know.

Yeah, I actually was in a bit of a shock, you know, good shock afterwards.

I had to sit down and say, is this happening?

Yeah, it's amazing.

So I'm looking forward for the next show.

Jaggery.

You have an entire set of albums and seven

inches that you can celebrate in their entirety.

You can see the birth of a band that was influenced largely by the Rolling Stones

do two incredible garage albums, do a kind of prog psych masterpiece in the

middle of it, go on to do Afro rock, OCB's style stuff, and

then move into doing disco and boogie, and it's all good.

I mean, that's a tremendous accomplishment anywhere.

And in Zambia, against all odds, for this music to be that great,

I mean, it's unbelievable to me.

And so to me, you celebrate the whole scene.

You celebrate every single person that made it possible.

You celebrate, you know, the people from Teal who invested in the infrastructure to

make it possible for an album like Lazy Bones to come out.

You know, and you certainly celebrate people like Jaggery who are holding,

you know, a torch for everybody else because the way's been dark for so long.

You know, you got to have somebody that's showing you the way.

I find people discovering it all the time and they always say the same thing.

Once they've gotten past, like I said, that removed assessment that comes from

not being able to truly, culturally understand what was going on there.

Even I still don't understand.

I've not been there.

They all say the same thing, which is, like, damn, this is incredible music.

It's God's plan.

Sometimes you don't know where you're going until

you are there and it's, oh, so exactly to me, yeah.

I can't say I planned this just like I never planned to become a musician.

I heard the witch album.

It was an incredible album.

So even if it was an anomaly, it was incredible.

But I thought to myself, there has to be a precursor to this.

This couldn't have just come from nothing.

And so that's when I was really searching to find what led up to the witch album.

And when I got on the phone with Jaggery, I started telling him how much I loved his

music and I immediately started bombarding him with catalog questions because I had

to know everything and I still have all the notes I took.

You know, it was a horrible cell phone connection.

It kept dropping.

I had to keep calling back and I was trying to transcribe the information as I

got it because I didn't know if I was ever going to speak to the guy again.

And I certainly had no idea whether or not he wanted me to reissue his music.

And so I said, I've got to license this music if only to show Jaggery that I'm

serious and to get him to dedicate time to

me so that I can figure out more about this.

People in Zambia that I was talking to had a barometer for what to ask for,

the value of their music.

But, man, I mean, it was something that quickly turned into a big deal for this

small community of Zambian musicians who had held on to this fire that they had in

the mid-70s when they were recording all this music.

You know, it will happen.

That's what he keeps saying.

It will happen.

And he wills it into existence.

Could you describe a concert of which in the 70s?

How was it like?

Very hectic, but in jab.

You were very successful in the 70s with the band, with which, and with the Zanrock.

But how did it end?

At my age, it might take a little longer for me

to work and serve enough to realize my dreams.

Of building music schools in the form of an academy, probably even for the less

privileged, I want to retire in a studio and school

of music, a good studio of international standards.

I could probably achieve that dream through mining.

There's, most times, very few people would understand that dream.

Sometimes I imagine an orphanage and there's so many people talented,

but they don't have the opportunity.

No one is tapping, identifying that talent to improve it.

And my thinking is if I had an academy like that, I would probably go around the

orphanages and identify there, including some street kids.

Some of them are talented.

If you find them playing on improvised instruments, you just wish you would help.

I survived the witch band from the original band, and I

joined them in 1980 when disco music came on the scene.

So I had the privilege of actually playing both

types of music, the Xamrock and the disco music.

We're going to do a track called It Feels So Good.

It's the first time we're doing it, so it's going to

be a bit of an experiment, so we'll see how it goes.

It Feels So Good If

you look at the entirety of the Xamrock movement,

it basically started in about 1972 in its infancy.

I'm talking about Dr. Footswitch coming from Rhodesia

and showing Jaggery that you could make a record.

I'm talking about that earliest point to the end of it all, which is basically like

Paul Ngozi's heavy metal album, which came out in 1980 or so.

We were talking about, at best, a six-year period.

I think that it was very difficult for Zambian

musicians to keep up with changing trends.

Paul Ngozi really tried, and he tried to do disco songs, which, of course,

really tried and had some success as a disco band

because they focused on Zimbabwe as did Paul Ngozi.

But the people that could just left.

And the people that stuck around had to deal with piracy and a country that was

dealing with rampant inflation and starvation.

Think about this.

I mean, like, the guys in Moseyo Tune would tell me stories about, like,

no food, like, zero food, and they're trying to put out records.

How long can you sustain that?

Especially if you're not making any money.

And it wasn't like they were getting paid much money to make

these records, and I've seen my fair share of contracts.

The payments weren't much.

They had to exist on live shows.

At the point that you're bootlegging an album onto a cassette, you know,

you start realizing in a country where the average person

didn't have a turntable after, I mean, 1980, whatever.

What was the point of making music?

Any type of music?

Especially this rock music, like, who the hell's thinking about that?

My hope has never faded.

Because now I understand how much God loves me.

It means well for my life.

And whatever I've passed through, I think he was just

preparing me for what he has for me in the future.

If we look at the Bible, Moses was delivered the Israelites.

When he was 80, he was old.

And that's when he went to take a better task.

And he was equal to the task.

My career doesn't consider age so much.

It's like wine.

The older it is, the better.

The only regret I have, I've never really...

When I came to my senses, my realization, my conscious being of my abilities,

my gifts, my talents, and opportunities, I've never lived as a musician.

I find myself mining gemstones instead of

making music, teaching music, recording music.

I have not realized what I should have realized.

Maybe I'm new in that... I'm an amateur in that field.

I don't know the tactics of the trade there.

I don't know how to make money.

I just do a straight job in there.

But who knows?

God doesn't mock.

He has something better for me sooner than later, I believe.

It's strange how that first fateful trip to Zambia opened doors in every new existence.

From the moment that I met Jaggeri to the last show of their European tour four

years later, are strange dreams that only become

stranger until eventually they became true.

Baby, it's all right Baby, it's all right Baby, it's all right

But maybe for now...

I don't know how to make money because I don't know how to make money.

Jaggeri and the witch were now being booked to play all over the world.

And along the way, I became the new manager.

It landed there, it happens.

Because of music that I would take Hope chose my life Don't come home It's so

strange My head is feeling weird all the way

It's everybody Happiness in the air Celebration room for me Dubai,

nothing for me What a night, don't talk about night What a

night, don't talk about night Paradise, don't talk about night

In the air Celebration room for me Dubai, nothing

for me What a night, don't talk about night In

the air Celebration room for me

What a night, don't talk about night