All language subtitles for The.Big.Swindle.S01E04.The.Million.Pound.Swindler.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-BurCyg_track3_[eng]

He was smart, he was clever,
he was sophisticated.

He was a vice president
at the Bank of America,

one of the largest financial
institutions in the world.

What was there not to trust?

When I walked
through these doors
for the very first time,

I thought, "This is the start
of something magnificent
in my life."

But what happened was
it was the start of one of
the worst nightmares ever.

[door opens]

-[Wayne] Rajesh.
-How you doing? All right?

Not bad, how are you?

-[Nicky] Good morning!
-[Wayne] Come in.

-[Rajesh] Morning.
You all right?
-[Nicky] Yeah.

The police noticed
that a payment of £1.2 million

had gone into
his bank account.

[Dr. Sohom Das]
Ghedia's behavior
is astute and it's crafty.

Somebody that has absolutely
no moral boundaries.

Very bright pupil
are the best fraudster.

They use their intelligence
in the wrong way.

Our whole life that morning
had come tumbling down.

He would have people
come and get us,

they had guns,
I was so scared.

Since this happened,
Wayne's just gone downhill.

Spiraled.

He goes into himself.
He's detached.

[Wayne] It was an
extremely dark place.

Financially, we've
taken a huge hit.

He said to me
time and time again,
we won't lose the house.

Ghedia doesn't care
who he hurts or how he hurts

along the way
to defraud people.

[producer] How
are you feeling?

Quit relaxed. I've got a lot
of things in my head.

Virginia Water
is a lovely suburb,

it's home
to the Wentworth Club
and Wentworth golf.

The people are very open,
very easy to get along with.

[producer] How you feeling?

[chuckles] Bit nervous.

[laughs]

I've been married to Wayne
for over 20 years,

and we have
three beautiful daughters
and two grandchildren.

One of the best things
about living here

is we're right next
to Windsor Great Park.

Wayne and I were
quite into sports,

so we were always
doing something.

We had a pretty
comfortable life.

[mouse clicks]

[Kay Pillai-Sacks]
Nicky's one of my
closest friend,

and if I don't see her
in a week's time,
I need my Nicky fix.

Uh, we support each other,

we are forever playing tennis,
playing mahjong, going out.

I'm at her house,
she's at my house.

I'm very passionate
about education.

The first 20 years
of my working life
in Tasmania, Australia,

I was a teacher.

Wayne was
so passionate about it.

He felt that everybody
needed to learn how
to spell properly,

and become
grammatically correct.

One of the drivers
that I've always had

is to help people
with their lives

to make sure that we can
maximize their potential.

He spent all his time
thinking of doing it.

[Wayne] We came
to England in 2004.

I had good jobs
at big companies,

but I was very involved
in technology.

So from around 2014,

my drive has been
to produce an education
platform

using all the fantastic tools
that digital, etcetera

bring along
and incorporate that.

We'd had a group
of developers in India

work on the super learning,

and it looked like
it was coming to fruition.

So he wanted to put
proper people onto it

and get it into the more
mainstream schools.

And that really, really
excited me,

and that is what I wanted
to do in the later years
of my working career.

Ghedia has a dog,
and my husband walks our dog,
and that's how they met.

We're a very
close-knit neighborhood.

It's like a circle.
He live in far-left corner.

They seemed normal
like any other family,

his parents
were living with him.

Ghedia was very active
in the local community,

he wanted to be helpful,
he wanted to offer all kinds
of information,

how we can
keep ourselves safe.

He helped this elderly lady,
who had lost her husband
and she was living by herself,

set up a sensor system
into her driveway.

So if anybody
crosses that sensor,

it beeps and she will
be alerted if there's
an intruder.

They never wore
any kind of flashy clothes.

He was always
dressed in black,

but he spent a lot
when he took us out.

Ghedia and his wife invited us
to have dinner with them.

There was a black taxi
that took us all into London.

We went to Mayfair
and we wanted to share
the bill,

and he said,
"Oh, no, this is my shout."

It would have been easily
a £1,000 evening.

Ghedia has a lavish lifestyle.

He's got the expensive cars,
he's got a luxury house,

he sends his kids
to private school.

So I wonder whether
there's some internal pressure

coming from himself
to keep up this lifestyle.

And that pressure
manifests itself in the need
to earn more money.

There were 30, 35 people there
I suppose.

It was a good party,
lot of good vibe,
a lot of good feeling.

[Kay] It was a great party.

Wayne is always happy,
he's always gregarious,
joking, kidding around.

Never had any serious
conversation with Wayne.

Wayne is the fun guy
in the party.

Towards the end of the night,
this gentleman sat next to me.

We got talking.
"What do you do?"

I tell him I do
IT advisory,

he said he worked in
the financial industry
in the city.

He told me
he was vice president
at the Bank of America,

head of a trading desk,
so it was
a very, very senior job.

He said, "I've got
three apartments in Mayfair.

One each for the children
when they grow up."

My first impressions

were normal guy being
very successful in his career.

A great family man,
he spoke about his family
a lot.

And these are things
I really value in life.

Commitment, loyalty, trust,

honesty, aspire
to a good career,
being successful.

Then we started
to talk about other things.

I came on to my education app,
told him how excited I was.

[Nicky] I remember Wayne
speaking to somebody
on the couch for a long time

and becoming quite
animated about it.

[Wayne] He said to me,
"What do you need
for your education app?"

And I'm thinking,
"Hmm. Big job in one
of the big banks."

I said to him, "I need
a million pounds investment."

He said to me,
"I think I can help you."

The environment
where Wayne and Ghedia
first met,

I think, is relevant.

They met at a party
in the neighborhood,

and it felt like there was
a close community spirit.

The adults
all knew each other,

a lot of the children
went to the same school.

So it would have felt
safe, secure.

It doesn't seem like
a typical place where
a scammer or a fraudster

would be out looking
for potential prey.

Fantastic. Great.

All in the group, all friends.

That must have been
so exciting and enthralling
for Wayne.

[Wayne] Here it is,
a fantastic opportunity,

so I would do
absolutely everything
to make that happen.

At the end of our discussion,
he said, "Look, Christmas
is coming up,

very busy with the family,
we're going away."

We swapped numbers,

we communicated via SMS
and WhatsApp.

We agreed to meet
on the 9th of January.

When I reflected on it,
I thought this is just perfect
and it's a fantastic thing.

And I thought, "This is fake."

So we met in the cafe
and we spoke about
the proposition.

[Dr. Das] When
Ghedia first meets Wayne,

he really goes on
this charm offensive.

[Wayne] He'd actually
had a look at the website,

so he really connected
with me that way.

He's done his research,

he's looked
at Wayne's website,

he understands his business,

he seems to share
this passion for education.

He said he needed
to clear things with his work

because of the strict controls
around what he could do
as an employee.

He said he would
start that process.

Clearly he did this
so he would come across
as more credible.

So this just shows
how calculating

and how manipulative
Ghedia was.

He told me that
the Bank of America

had headhunted him
from JPMorgan.

He had brought his
two biggest clients over.

The Qatari royal family
and the Qatari government.

The Bank of America
were ecstatic about
his performance.

He was a big, big deal.

I always had the concern,
"Is this legitimate or not?"

He's a top executive
at a big bank in the city.

I checked that out.

He had a very small
digital footprint
which surprised me.

I asked him about this.

He wanted to stay
under the radar,

just look like a normal person
but with tons of money.

We'd organized a meeting
for a few weeks later.

Then he leant over
and he said, "Look,
I've had a think about it."

He said, "I've decided
I can give you £1.5 million
investment."

And I thought,
"Wow, even better!"

I was bouncing off every wall,
I was so excited.

[Dr. Das] Wayne initially
requested around £1.2 million
of an investment,

but Ghedia actually
offered him £1.5 million.

So, look at it
from Wayne's perspective,

and now he's got an offer
for money from a very credible
platform, the Bank of America.

It's almost like a dream
come true for him.

We would be required
to adhere to all processes
from the Bank of America,

I would become
a Bank of America customer.

Now to really make sure
that I knew that he was
absolutely honest,

I said, "Right, I want to meet
you in your employment,

and I wanna communicate
only through your work email."

He said,
"That's absolutely perfect."

He was gonna suggest the same.

I dress up for it.
Very important.

It was a very
impressive building,

the Bank of America
headquarters in
King Edward Street.

I went into the bank,
my name was there,

they had a security pass
for me.

We would go through
security gates.

The guards would say hello
to him, they knew him.

We go down into the canteen
to have our business meeting.

He would buy me lunch,
again he said hello to people,
they talked to him.

He was relatively low-key
about his standing
in the company,

but he did make it clear
that he was a vice president.

In charge of trading,
very big business.

Had a big team underneath him.

[Dr. Das] From
Wayne's perspective,

when he gets there,
everything seems legitimate.

People are waiting
for the meeting,

people know who Ghedia is.

So any kinds
of anxieties or doubts

that Wayne might
have had in the back
of his mind,

I think would have dissipated.

Just from the environment
he was in.

And I could feel
the energy and the vibe

from "Look, what a massive
company Bank of America is."

From Ghedia's perspective,
it's easier for him to exploit
and to manipulate his target

by creating this environment
of legitimacy for Wayne.

So it does appear
like this investment
that Ghedia's promised

is actually coming
from the Bank of America.

There's literally no reason
for anybody to suspect

that this is anything
but credible.

Initially, I was
surprised to hear it.

Why should I put money in?

You're investing
in my company.

He explained to me
it was a personal wealth
portfolio

for high net-worth individuals
so he was introducing me
to that.

It was something
that we could use and grow.

He'd spoken to the legal heads
and head of compliance

and confirmed it was okay.

And I would
have to invest £142,000
and when that was done,

it was opened,
it was then a vehicle

where he could put in
his £1.5 million

and then I could
withdraw the money.

And I thought, "Great."

[Wayne] After several meetings
at the Bank of America,

I met Ghedia
on the 22nd of March

in Costa Coffee
in Virginia Water,

and that's where
we signed the contract.

One might question why
Wayne would sign the contract
in Costa Coffee

as opposed to doing it
in the bank,

but from his perspective,
he's already had a meeting
in the bank.

It already seemed
very legitimate,

so he's got nothing
to be suspicious about.

I did have doubts about it.

Ghedia [exhales] seemed
too good to be true, almost.

But because he worked
for the Bank of America
in a VP role,

it seemed like he knew
what he was doing.

Mr. Ghedia had a genuine
Bank of America email address,

he had Bank of America
business cards

which identified him
as a vice president.

He had access
to Bank of America
templates and documents.

He was able to invite Wayne
into Bank of America
to hold meetings.

And he was available
via the Bank of America
switchboard.

And that is hugely
compelling to somebody
in Wayne's position.

So to get
£142,000 initially, uh,

I had a private investor
who lent me £50,000
at quite big rates.

For the remainder of the money
which was £92,000,

we had to go through
a process to basically
remortgage.

Again, at quite high rates.

The transfer of the money
was done to an account
which was a Halifax account.

I challenged him on this,

I said, "Whoa, hang on,
this is a Halifax account,
you're Bank of America."

He said, "This is
a Bank of America
desk activity account."

He had all of the
documentation available,
ready, for when I asked him.

He would produce it
straight away.

[Dr. Das] It's obviously
calculated and preplanned.

When Wayne asks him
why he needs to transfer money
to Halifax

rather than
the Bank of America,

Ghedia has an answer for him
and he's able to show him
fabricated paperwork.

When I did the transfer,
I checked it.

I did a practice one
of £10 first.

The name on the account
came up as Bank of America
DOA.

And when I saw
the Bank of America,

I thought, "Well, look,
this, as he said, it's a Bank
of America agency account."

And I took
screenshots of that,
I verified it with him.

"Ah, yes, I've seen it.
It's come into the account.
Great."

Then after doing the £10,

I transferred
the larger amount.

The portfolio's open
and it's got money in it.
You're safe. It's done.

[Nicky] At this point,
there were no alarm bells
going off at all.

I didn't like the fact
that we had to put money in
to get money,

but it made sense
that we would put
some money in

and then he would
sort of top it up.

We could speculate
about whether Ghedia's
actually feeling any guilt

at this moment in time.

And maybe he is.

But his own greed
and his own narcissism
far outweighs this.

[Wayne] And I thought,
"Fantastic. I can now access
that money.

When can I get it?"

Then he said,
"Because of the money

initially coming in
from a business account,

some backend systems
need to be aligned.

Otherwise,
it would be blocked."

There would be
a nine-month delay.

January 20, 2020
was the date he gave me

that I could access
the portal to get the funds.

I was getting emails
and messages and
in discussions

to say he was really
pushing hard to have
the six systems aligned.

They were aligned,
and we're ready to go.

I log in to the portal,

it is an authentic
Bank of America portal.

I get the text.
"Here's your password."

I type that in, press enter

thinking I'm gonna see
my bank account
with £1.75 million...

[beeps]

It comes back
"wrong password."

I go, "Ugh."

Then I rang him.
I said, "It's not working."

He said, "I'll look at it.
Hang on, there might be
a mistake."

And I've got my staff
ringing me up saying,

"How did you go?
Did you get the money?"

I said, "Well, no,
there's a bit of a problem."

And that was hell.

We were getting
really frustrated about
all these delays.

They just kept on happening.

And then, COVID hit.

We had people
that we had to pay,
it was very hard for us.

We actually ended up
getting Bounce Back Loans.

[Paolo] And there was
always an excuse.

There was always a problem.

And Ghedia became
increasingly aggressive
with Wayne.

At one point,
he telephoned him
and shouted at him

because Wayne was asking
too many questions.

And he said that this was
causing Mr. Ghedia problems
at work.

And as a result,
the funds could not
be released.

[Wayne] We're ready to go,

Yes, here's your link
to the portal.

Fantastic, everyone's jumping
out their skin.

We're finally gonna get there.

Again, the same message,
doesn't work.

So, I sent him a mail,
said it's not working.

He said,
"Oh, I'll call you."

So for the second time
I've tried to access
the funds,

and I can't.

Imagine what it's like.

I just... I cried.

He was still appearing
to be very, very supportive,

"Don't worry,
we'll work through this.

It's an industry thing."

And I trusted him still.

I started to have my doubts,
and I was like,

"Hold on a moment.
Why are we still
giving you money

when you've promised us
this investment
three times now?"

And I started to get
really worried about it
and scared

because he had
a lot of our money.

And I said to Wayne, "Look,
let's just cut our losses.

And let's just get out,
um, get our money back."

[Wayne] Sixth of May comes.
"The money is going
to be in your account."

I wake up and look
at my phone straight away,

and there's a message there...

which was from
a Russian fraudster

who said, "We'd be
watching your account.

Thank you very much, uh,
we have stolen the money
that you sent.

And very happy
to do business with you."

I've absolutely had it
up to the eyeballs

of all these things
that are going on,

things I don't know
anything about.

Russian hackers,
money not being delivered.

How can this
turn out like this?

I was sick,
I couldn't think.

-[Wayne] Rajesh.
-Hey, how you doing?
Good morning.

Not bad, how are you?

-Yeah.
-[Nicky] Morning!

-Morning, you all right?
-[Nicky] Yeah.

[Paolo] It was
a very hammily-worded email.

It was ridiculous, really.

It was written in such
a caricature of a style.

Wayne concluded that something
very odd was going on,

this was not
all about the board.

And at it's that point
that he really began
to suspect

that Mr. Ghedia
was having him on.

[Wayne] I spoke
to my business partner.

He started to look at things,

and he said,
"This is not adding up.

This is not making sense.
This doesn't seem right."

He said, "We need to report
this to Action Fraud."

I thought, "Oh.
[sighs] Okay."

Uh, and that's what I did.

[Nicky] Wayne started
to get a little bit angry,

saying to Ghedia, "That's it.

I'm going into
the Bank of America today.

And I want my money back."

Ghedia started shouting
at him over the phone,

and he was saying
he had people,

he knew where we lived.

When we look
at the progression
of Ghedia's behavior,

it's becoming more
and more chaotic.

He would have people
come and get us.

They had guns.

The initial scam
was well thought out

and it was preplanned.

We were so frightened.

Because we didn't know
whether this guy
was on his own

or whether he did have
mafia friends or whatever.

It all seems very impulsive
and to me, it stinks
of desperation.

[Nicky] Our whole life,
that morning, had come
tumbling down.

And then with the threat...

Oh, man, I was so scared.

[Dr. Das] What was
his exit strategy?

It's inevitable that
there would have been

some sort of confrontation
with Wayne.

They're both members
of the same community.

Wayne's not just
gonna suddenly disappear.

[Paolo Caldato]
On the 10th of May, 2020,

Wayne contacted
the complaint's line
of Bank of America

and told them that he had
serious concerns
about Mr. Ghedia,

and he was worried
that he had been scammed.

Around two weeks later,
a second individual contacted
the Bank of America

with very similar concerns.

It was at that point
that the Bank of America
took action

and reported matters
the police
and to Action Fraud,

and suspended Mr. Ghedia.

[Wayne] I got a call
from Action Fraud to say

they were transferring my case
to City of London Police

and not to tell Ghedia.

So straight away,
I thought, "Ugh."

I could see what was coming.
[sighs] I knew.

I realized,
"This is serious. Uh..."

I was crying all the time,
my wife was the same.

We just couldn't believe it.

And one of
the City of London
Police officers

who had been assigned
to it, rang me up.

He said, "No,
your accounts never existed.

There's no money there.
It's all been gone."

It's like you just get hit
in the face with a big hammer.

Bang, it's not there.

How can this happen?

[Nicky] Wayne said to me,
"We need to go for a walk,"

and I started
to get really nervous.

Whenever somebody
says we need to do
something like that,

it's like a sinking feeling
in your stomach.

I remember it clearly,
we went for a walk

at about 3 o'clock
in the afternoon.

[Nicky] "The police had
phoned me this morning.

Ghedia's not
who he says he is."

That sinking feeling
in my stomach
just went ballistic.

We just broke down
and it was just...

Ugh! Uh, well, I've never felt
anything like that before.

And I hope I never feel
anything like that again.

[Nicky] I just
couldn't believe it.

I'm getting goosebumps now,
he was our friend, you know?

I treated him as a friend.

Sorry.

I'm goose bumping all over.

I was devastated.

But more so for Wayne.

It was his dreams.
He had just put
his life on hold for this.

I didn't sleep that night.

[Wayne] It was
massively hard for me,

knowing what he'd done.

Uh, I was told by the police
just to act normal

so as not to alert him.

We were driving
down the road,

and lo and behold,
Ghedia and his wife
are walking along.

I pulled over,
knowing full well
that he's a fraudster,

he's been fired
and I've been scammed.

I said to him, "Really excited
about getting the money."

He said, "Yeah, it's great.
The bank are really
excited about this."

So, he even though
everything had happened,

he was still pretending
that it was alive,
everything was gonna work.

[Paolo] Mr. Ghedia
was arrested in August, 2020,

and he gave
a "no comment" interview,

following which he was charged
and released on bail.

When Ghedia
was first arrested,

there must have
been a huge level
of embarrassment and shame.

This is public knowledge now,
it's gonna be in the media.

His family, his friends,
the whole community

is gonna find out exactly
what he's been up to.

He would have felt
a sense of regret,

but that's not
necessarily remorse.

It might have been fear,
fear for the future.

When he was arrested,
I was actually relieved.

He was no longer
a threat to us.

We still didn't know
whether he had friends.

So we were
still very cautious.

But at least now I thought...

"Now it's going to come out.

Now...

he can't hide anymore. He...

He can't pretend
to be who he isn't."

Wayne, uh, told me
that, uh, he's been arrested.

I was very shocked,

because, you know,
you come across
like a good citizen,

helpful neighbor,

and then, all of a sudden,
you went quiet.

And the next thing we hear
that you are dealing
with all this fraud.

[Paolo] During his employment
with Bank of America,

Mr. Ghedia signed up
to several pension funds

that were supposed to pay out

in the event that he were
given a medical diagnosis

and a prognosis of fewer
than 12 months to live.

In March, 2017,
Mr. Ghedia also took out
critical illness cover

with the policy value
of £1.2 million.

[Dr. Das] On the 15th
of October, 2020,

Ghedia phones the pension team
at Legal & General.

[phone ringing]

[woman speaking]

[Rajesh speaking]

[Paolo]
The insurers received letters
from Mr. Ghedia's doctor

informing them
that he had terminal cancer

and that he only had months
in which to live.

The reports
that Mr. Ghedia faked,

they used what sounded
to me like genuine
medical terminology.

They were very,
very sophisticated.

He was able
to conjure up these documents
that were convincing enough

to trick very sophisticated
insurance institutions.

Ghedia's behavior is astute
and is crafty.

It seems like
he's intentionally picked
a terminal illness

'cause he knows
that the insurance companies

are not going
to investigate it too hard.

They usually do
this retrospectively.

[Paolo] During the course
of their investigations,

they identified
one particular payment

that stood out to them
because of its size.

It was £1.2 million payment

that he received
in May, 2021.

I think it's really
diabolical that Ghedia
is exploiting a system

that's there to help
terminally ill patients.

In his head,
he's probably able
to justify that to a degree

because it's a faceless,
large corporation.

But when he took
money from Wayne,

it would have been different.

It feels like he doesn't care,

he's completely indifferent
into the impact

it would have had on Wayne,

which was devastating,
it's so far-reaching.

This just shows
not only how desperate he is,

but he's just got
an absolute lack
of moral boundaries.

When police officers
raided Mr. Ghedia's home
with a warrant,

they uncovered evidence
of further frauds.

Mr. Ghedia submitted
two further applications

for life insurance policies
in June and July, 2021.

And in those applications,
he gave statements
to the effect

that he was not receiving
treatment for any
medical conditions

of any nature whatsoever.

His whole world must have
been collapsing around him.

He must have known
that law enforcements
were creeping up on him.

So I imagine there would have
been this huge sense of panic

and maybe he wasn't thinking
logically or rationally.

He was making
impulsive decisions.

The level of scam
that he perpetrated

was just unbelievable.

Not even a miracle
could save Ghedia now,

and he knows it.

[Wayne] I attended
the court sentencing.

I was determined to go
because I wanted to see him.

And he came through the door,

walked along,
he didn't look at me.

He just seemed calm.

[Dr. Das] Sometimes,
victims attend court

because they want to see
the perpetrator get justice.

They want this justice
to be something tangible,

that they're witnessing
in front of them

rather than
an abstract concept

that's happening at a distance

that they might read
about later in the papers.

I accompanied Wayne
to the sentencing hearing.

And it was during
the course of that
that I realized

the full extent
of Mr. Ghedia's scam.

It wasn't just Wayne,
there were other victims.

And he had told them
that his daughter
had just died.

It's any parent's
worst nightmare.

And to use it in that context
just flabbergasted me.

[Dr. Das]
When we look at Ghedia's
fraudulent activity,

it seems that he had lots
of different schemes going on,

almost like a Ponzi scheme.

So he may have been hoping
to gain back some of the money

so that he could pay off Wayne
to get him off his back.

The kind of mindset
of a person that would
commit this level of fraud

is somebody
that has absolutely
no moral boundaries.

It almost seems like
there's no depths

that Ghedia
won't sink down to.

As well as Wayne, we know
that Ghedia had other victims.

He had this regular
taxi driver,

and that person's wife,
Saeeda Ahmed, had savings.

And Ghedia managed
to rip off this couple
for £100,000

to invest in him.

They had to sell
their house for that.

And then when Mrs. Ahmed
went to confront Ghedia,

he fabricates the story
about being in a car crash,

and says that his daughter
is in the hospital

so that she backs off.

We also know that Ghedia
conned his own cousin
out £64,000,

and another father
at the school
for £117,000.

He was convicted and sentenced
to six years and nine months.

For the amount of sorrow

and for what
he's done to people,

the lives
that he's just destroyed...

I just think
six years isn't enough.

To think that he can get out
and do this again,

put other people through
what we've been through,

it scares me.

I felt extremely violated
by what he did,

and, you know, in my...
Under my roof,

to my friends.

He has no qualms,
he's unscrupulous.

He goes after people,
takes everything from them.

So he might do it again.

He gets high on it, I think.

Serves him right,
where he's now.

It's clear he's shown
no signs of a moral compass.

He's now going behind bars.

Hopefully, he'll find one.

What makes this fraud
more or less in my experience

is that the central element
of it was true,

Mr. Ghedia
was who he said he was.

He was an employee
of Bank of America.

The best lies have
elements of truth to them.

[Dr. Das] Ghedia was
actually vice president,

but he was
backroom staff.

But he had these
business cards printed

which he gave to Wayne,
suggesting that he wasn't
actually backroom staff,

but that he was the head
of the trading desk.

And I think there's a couple
of reasons for this.

Firstly, it would increase
his credibility,

making it more likely
that Wayne would
invest in him.

But also, possibly,
there was a degree of jealousy
with his peers,

so he was working
amongst investment bankers

who would have been
earning huge salaries.

So, in total...

the scam with Ghedia,
he got me for £182,000.

But then the other expenses
I've incurred would be
about up to £400,000.

I still felt committed
to pay my staff,

uh, they had worked
in good faith.

I've got principles
that I'm gonna stick to,
no matter what.

And then, just personally,

the time I've invested,
all of that, it's lost.

I was very angry
that this had happened

and that we'd been put
in this position.

Everything became really tight
then money-wise.

We can't go and see
our family in Australia.

We had a new grandchild.

Malia is now 20 months old.

So we weren't able to go
and see her when she was born.

That was horrible for us.

A few years ago...

we were both very hopeful

about how the trajectory
of our life is gonna be.

Now, I just sort of...
I live day-to-day.

I check the bank
accounts daily. I worry.

I wake up in the morning
worrying about the future.

If we don't get
the money back,

then there's a real
chance that, um,

we're gonna lose our house.

Wayne had all
these hopes and dreams,

he was going to have
early retirement.

He had plans with his money,

including visiting
his children in Australia.

And it all came crashing down
and the opposite happened.

He's now under
financial strain.

And this financial pressure
not only put a strain

on his relationship
with his wife,

but for Wayne,
it made him more isolated,
more withdrawn.

So it feels like it effected
his mental health

and possibly
his physical health as well.

[Wayne] It was just
an extremely dark place.

Financially, we've taken
a huge hit.

Uh, just to get through
each day was hard.

Sometimes, I didn't wanna
get up out of bed

'cause I could
not face the day.

And everything just seemed
to be crowding in

and I could not see
any way out of it,

for me, for my wife,
for my family.

Uh, it was just horrible
and I did not know what to do.

Since this happened,
Wayne's just gone
downhill, spiraled.

He goes into himself.
He's detached.

Forgiveness will always
resonate with me,

I think time is a big healer,

but still, to know
that he deliberately,
uh, planned this

and incurred this hurt
and problems for my family,

it'll take me a long time
to forgive him.

[Dr. Das] Could a swindler
like Ghedia actually
be rehabilitated

or will he continue
to act fraudulently
once he's released?

Some people actually
do reflect upon
their lives in prison,

and they develop
a sense of empathy

and genuine remorse,

but on the other hand,
some people continue
their actions.

So sometimes
it's the external pressures,

whether they're being
observed by the police,

that will actually effect
their actions

more than any
internal epiphany.

[Nicky] He's getting back
to his old self.

We're both positive people,
at the end of the day.

We've got each other.

We've got our family.

That's what's
kept us together.

I think a lot of people
might not have survived
what we've gone through.

Going through this kind
of experience can lead
to people questioning

their own judgement
in the future,

and it can also lead to them
becoming more anxious
and nervous.

It might even mean
that they need
more reassurance

for the day-to-day life
in the future.

When we had one
of our early interviews
with the police,

they said these things
wreck people's lives.

They can wreck
relationships and marriages.

Uh, Nicky and I,
we've been married
for over 20 years,

extremely, extremely close,
love each other so much,

but it has really rocked that.

I'll turn 60 in 2021.

I thought I'd be...

I'd be good, we've got
grandkids in Australia
and... [inhales]

And Nicky has been
a tremendous support.

We stuck together.

We've weathered the storm,
we've still got a way to go.

But we are good people.

We're doing the right thing
and we know we are.

So the love, the commitment,
the strength has
held us together.