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1
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Let's go.
Okay, are you comfortable?
2
00:00:13,346 --> 00:00:14,973
- Yes.
- Okay, cool.
3
00:00:15,557 --> 00:00:21,557
So I wonder if... if I could start
by just asking you about your mom.
4
00:00:23,023 --> 00:00:24,441
Just tell... tell me about her.
5
00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,862
Yeah, um... Yeah. She
was a really good mother.
6
00:00:28,945 --> 00:00:32,282
I mean, my dad died when
I was just a... a toddler,
7
00:00:32,365 --> 00:00:35,326
so she raised me and
my brother by herself.
8
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I mean, she was
strong, independent.
9
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Just, you know, a
great person, you know?
10
00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:53,178
I was pretty surprised when she
told me about going on the show.
11
00:00:56,139 --> 00:00:58,683
She didn't like having her
picture taken very much.
12
00:00:58,767 --> 00:01:02,187
She always tried to hide her
face or hide behind something
13
00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:06,024
or hold something up so she
wouldn't be in... in the pictures.
14
00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:14,449
So to see her up there on
the stage just looking like,
15
00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:18,578
you know, a deer caught in the
headlights, like, "What is going on here?"
16
00:01:18,661 --> 00:01:20,038
You need to get a life.
17
00:01:20,121 --> 00:01:23,249
I just wish I could go back
and say to her, "Don't do it."
18
00:01:26,127 --> 00:01:27,587
Jerry! Jerry!
19
00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:29,464
The bigger that show got,
20
00:01:29,547 --> 00:01:33,426
the more it raised
questions, larger questions,
21
00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,846
about what really
went on backstage.
22
00:01:37,430 --> 00:01:38,556
Where you going?
23
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,350
She's saying she's leaving.
24
00:01:40,433 --> 00:01:43,812
I mean, it was highly stressful,
it was highly competitive.
25
00:01:43,895 --> 00:01:47,190
I need to be able to hear you. You
guys are such at a great level…
26
00:01:47,273 --> 00:01:51,194
And there are a lot of things that
these producers felt they had to do
27
00:01:51,277 --> 00:01:52,737
that I'm sure
they're not proud of.
28
00:01:52,821 --> 00:01:54,364
I've been seeing somebody else.
29
00:01:54,447 --> 00:01:55,448
You what?
30
00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:59,577
They had to create all
kinds of combustible situations
31
00:01:59,661 --> 00:02:02,330
because they want to get that
spark, they want to get the heat,
32
00:02:02,413 --> 00:02:04,332
they want to get the explosion.
33
00:02:04,415 --> 00:02:06,084
And yet, they had to know
34
00:02:06,167 --> 00:02:08,753
that when the show was over
and the lights were off,
35
00:02:08,837 --> 00:02:11,089
and those guests were
sent on their way home,
36
00:02:11,172 --> 00:02:15,218
that they might have really
changed their lives for the worse.
37
00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:16,301
Forever.
38
00:02:16,886 --> 00:02:19,686
Let me take this opportunity
to thank you for being with us.
39
00:02:19,722 --> 00:02:22,522
And I hope you're able to find some
peace in your future relationships.
40
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,144
I hope it works out for you.
41
00:02:40,743 --> 00:02:43,413
The initial turning
point came one Saturday,
42
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,376
when we got called into, like,
an emergency meeting in...
43
00:02:48,459 --> 00:02:49,878
at NBC Tower.
44
00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:51,588
Just producers.
45
00:02:51,671 --> 00:02:53,047
Producers, senior staff.
46
00:02:54,465 --> 00:02:57,594
All of a sudden, the
door opens and Jerry comes in.
47
00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:00,680
And that's, like, super bizarre.
48
00:03:00,763 --> 00:03:02,724
Jerry's never in on a weekend.
49
00:03:02,807 --> 00:03:04,851
Like, nope, not a thing.
50
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,438
And he just says, "You know,
guys, I'm really sorry."
51
00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:11,524
"But, you know, there's
nothing more to say now."
52
00:03:12,442 --> 00:03:13,443
And that's it.
53
00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:16,821
Walks out of the room.
We're all like, "What?"
54
00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,537
It turns out
there was a story about Jerry
55
00:03:24,621 --> 00:03:28,249
having a threesome with
some guests from the show.
56
00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:31,211
I'm like, "There's no way."
57
00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:33,922
"There's no way. They're lying."
58
00:03:35,423 --> 00:03:37,425
And, uh, then I
saw the pictures.
59
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,515
It was weird 'cause it was Jerry,
'cause we never looked at him like that.
60
00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:46,351
Most of us would never
dream of exposing
61
00:03:46,434 --> 00:03:48,519
our most intimate secrets
to the whole world.
62
00:03:48,603 --> 00:03:50,313
We cherish our privacy
63
00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:52,398
and want others to see
only that side of us
64
00:03:52,482 --> 00:03:53,858
we choose to present.
65
00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:58,196
He was always very
private about his private life.
66
00:03:58,279 --> 00:04:01,074
He never talked
about his ex-wife,
67
00:04:01,157 --> 00:04:04,244
um, the relationship that
they continued to have,
68
00:04:04,327 --> 00:04:08,915
and the circumstances of his
custody with his daughter.
69
00:04:10,917 --> 00:04:14,671
Jerry absolutely
loved his ex-wife.
70
00:04:15,421 --> 00:04:18,549
They were amicably separated
and really good friends.
71
00:04:20,176 --> 00:04:23,846
His daughter, um, had
some disabilities.
72
00:04:24,931 --> 00:04:26,057
And he…
73
00:04:27,684 --> 00:04:30,603
He, you know, he put
her up on a pedestal.
74
00:04:31,938 --> 00:04:33,564
How's your daughter doing now?
75
00:04:37,402 --> 00:04:38,820
Yeah, you know, um…
76
00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:43,908
To the audience,
77
00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:47,328
Jerry was a stand-up
father and husband.
78
00:04:49,330 --> 00:04:52,542
So he got very lucky that
it just kind of fizzled.
79
00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:55,920
I mean, if it had happened now,
80
00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,631
it would have been
a cancel moment.
81
00:04:59,549 --> 00:05:00,633
For sure.
82
00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:03,303
You know, the guests
are the guests.
83
00:05:04,178 --> 00:05:06,014
They've got their own problems.
84
00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:09,517
So you don't cross that line.
85
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,729
- Thank you. Thank you very much.
- Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
86
00:05:12,812 --> 00:05:15,773
But the audience
honestly didn't care.
87
00:05:16,858 --> 00:05:19,527
I mean, he's Jerry
Springer, for fuck's sakes.
88
00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:23,865
Please welcome the star of
that clip, Mr. Jerry Springer!
89
00:05:26,784 --> 00:05:29,662
Jerry loved being a star.
90
00:05:29,746 --> 00:05:32,332
He... He didn't act it.
He didn't act like a star,
91
00:05:32,415 --> 00:05:34,917
but he loved the
fact that he was.
92
00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:37,003
- Jerry, why do I love your show?
- Yes?
93
00:05:37,086 --> 00:05:40,006
Why do we all love your show
so much? What's wrong with us?
94
00:05:43,051 --> 00:05:46,262
I don't want to live in a country that
watches my show, I'll tell you that.
95
00:05:47,221 --> 00:05:49,474
To say
Richard corrupted him,
96
00:05:49,557 --> 00:05:53,895
I think absolves Jerry of
too much responsibility.
97
00:05:54,854 --> 00:06:00,854
But would Jerry Springer have
become the Jerry Springer we knew
98
00:06:01,152 --> 00:06:02,945
without Richard Dominick?
99
00:06:03,821 --> 00:06:05,615
I would say absolutely not.
100
00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:11,788
If Jerry
Springer was moneyball,
101
00:06:11,871 --> 00:06:13,289
Richard found the formula.
102
00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:16,376
'Cause they were crushing it.
103
00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:21,130
So, you know, people didn't
mess with them, like ever.
104
00:06:21,631 --> 00:06:23,508
They just did what they wanted.
105
00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:25,671
- You're selling your body for money.
- That's right.
106
00:06:25,718 --> 00:06:27,595
- Why are you doing that?
- I love my job!
107
00:06:27,678 --> 00:06:29,514
- I can't...
- And I love the men I meet.
108
00:06:29,597 --> 00:06:31,265
- Shh.
- And I love sucking dick!
109
00:06:33,768 --> 00:06:37,688
Every television station
executive who aired that show
110
00:06:37,772 --> 00:06:39,899
knew what a piece
of shit it was.
111
00:06:39,982 --> 00:06:41,025
They knew it.
112
00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:45,446
But the numbers were so good
that they couldn't resist it.
113
00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:49,325
Richard Dominick gets a
mean three-year contract.
114
00:06:49,992 --> 00:06:54,205
Jerry gets a $30 million
multiple-year extension.
115
00:06:54,831 --> 00:06:57,041
These guys were laughing
all the way to the bank.
116
00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:00,795
That's what
their show did.
117
00:07:00,878 --> 00:07:04,298
And it may be stupid,
and it may be trashy,
118
00:07:04,382 --> 00:07:07,552
and it may be enjoying
someone else's misery,
119
00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:11,305
but that was the... that
was the path they chose.
120
00:07:18,020 --> 00:07:19,740
I don't
remember the exact moment
121
00:07:19,814 --> 00:07:21,941
that we became the
number-one show,
122
00:07:22,442 --> 00:07:26,904
but I do know that that's when I felt
like it was starting to be a task.
123
00:07:26,988 --> 00:07:29,490
Where before, it was fun.
124
00:07:29,574 --> 00:07:32,285
We're having a good time.
We're doing great shows.
125
00:07:32,368 --> 00:07:33,995
Everybody's happy.
126
00:07:34,078 --> 00:07:35,872
But now when you
become number one,
127
00:07:36,747 --> 00:07:38,124
you got to stay there.
128
00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:41,627
Did the ratings issue
have a lot to do
129
00:07:41,711 --> 00:07:44,005
with the kind of pressure
that we were receiving
130
00:07:44,088 --> 00:07:47,258
that was trickling down
from Richard's office?
131
00:07:47,341 --> 00:07:49,093
Um, yeah.
132
00:07:49,177 --> 00:07:50,553
Absolutely.
133
00:07:50,636 --> 00:07:51,679
No doubt.
134
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,394
For the producers,
Richard was terrifying.
135
00:07:59,061 --> 00:08:01,898
I mean, he would raise his
voice, but he would never…
136
00:08:01,981 --> 00:08:04,567
It was never yelling,
it was just stern.
137
00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:08,279
"You guys are a disappointment. That's
it. I'm gonna make some changes."
138
00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:10,907
Really scary.
139
00:08:12,158 --> 00:08:15,536
My job was to take what he wanted
and take it to the producers
140
00:08:15,620 --> 00:08:18,122
and make sure that
they did what he said.
141
00:08:18,789 --> 00:08:21,918
And they would find
a guest or a story,
142
00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:24,212
and then they would come
to these pitch meetings,
143
00:08:24,295 --> 00:08:27,632
and he would always
be kind of snarky.
144
00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:29,842
"What makes you think
this is gonna work?"
145
00:08:29,926 --> 00:08:32,470
"It's not gonna work. Why
would you bring this to me?"
146
00:08:33,054 --> 00:08:34,096
Oh, man.
147
00:08:36,807 --> 00:08:37,807
Fuck.
148
00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:41,604
Richard would say, "You need to
hit these numbers or you're gone."
149
00:08:42,855 --> 00:08:43,940
Very high-pressure.
150
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,025
God, that sucked.
151
00:08:46,108 --> 00:08:47,860
I remember that so well.
152
00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:52,823
It just made it harder, right?
153
00:08:52,907 --> 00:08:55,785
Like, it's hard enough
to get huge ratings.
154
00:08:55,868 --> 00:08:59,330
Don't play stupid little games,
and do a good job on this.
155
00:08:59,413 --> 00:09:00,498
Yeah.
156
00:09:00,581 --> 00:09:05,253
But now we're also just trying to
keep our jobs from week to week.
157
00:09:06,128 --> 00:09:07,808
So what
the hell did you do?
158
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:08,880
Come on.
159
00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,342
Come on. I mean, it's
The Jerry Springer Show.
160
00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:16,097
If I'm not pregnant, what
the hell is this, bitch?
161
00:09:16,180 --> 00:09:17,180
Fuck you, bitch.
162
00:09:17,223 --> 00:09:18,849
- Well, I'm right here.
- Well, say...
163
00:09:18,933 --> 00:09:20,518
And I ain't your bitch!
164
00:09:20,601 --> 00:09:22,788
- You threatened me. Bring it on.
- Wasn't a threat.
165
00:09:22,812 --> 00:09:25,481
- I will fuck you up, Angela.
- You want to fuck me up?
166
00:09:30,194 --> 00:09:32,947
It was really simple. If it
did not contain fighting,
167
00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:34,198
it did not rate.
168
00:09:34,282 --> 00:09:36,367
People wanted the fighting.
169
00:09:37,201 --> 00:09:38,494
So that's what we delivered.
170
00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:47,003
We just started pushing the needle
ever so slowly towards red, right?
171
00:09:47,086 --> 00:09:50,881
Of like, let's see how
far we can push this shit.
172
00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:53,926
Jerry and Richard would
do, like, baseball signals.
173
00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:56,304
I never knew what they
were, really, most of them.
174
00:09:56,387 --> 00:10:00,182
But this one, this one was you need to
get tougher, you know, with the guests.
175
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,393
She has
been having an affair.
176
00:10:02,476 --> 00:10:05,646
And now let's meet the fellow
you've been having an affair with.
177
00:10:05,730 --> 00:10:06,731
Let's bring him out.
178
00:10:16,991 --> 00:10:21,871
These were like big, knock-down,
drag-out, whoop-ass fights.
179
00:10:21,954 --> 00:10:23,432
- Fuckin' try it.
- Get out of my face.
180
00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,207
I mean,
teeth were knocked out.
181
00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:31,589
Some people lost,
literally, chunks of scalp.
182
00:10:31,672 --> 00:10:34,175
Yeah, I got
your hair, bitch!
183
00:10:34,258 --> 00:10:36,844
I got your hair.
That's right, bitch!
184
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:41,974
Women would
pull their nails off.
185
00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:44,018
The fake nail with
their real nail.
186
00:10:44,101 --> 00:10:47,563
Like, we had to get them to the
hospital to surgically repair.
187
00:10:48,522 --> 00:10:53,194
They were brutal, like,
to-the-death fights.
188
00:10:56,364 --> 00:11:00,159
The irony is, I'm the least
physically offensive person in the world.
189
00:11:00,242 --> 00:11:03,204
I've never hit anyone ever.
190
00:11:03,287 --> 00:11:05,873
You know? You know, I've
never spanked my child.
191
00:11:05,956 --> 00:11:09,960
I've never, ever laid a
hand on anybody in anger.
192
00:11:10,044 --> 00:11:11,295
And, um…
193
00:11:12,421 --> 00:11:14,507
And yet the reputation,
of course, of the show
194
00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:15,830
is this professional wrestling.
195
00:11:20,471 --> 00:11:22,598
In spite of the
success of the show,
196
00:11:22,682 --> 00:11:26,602
there was never a point at which
Jerry and Richard were coasting.
197
00:11:26,686 --> 00:11:28,688
They always had
to top themselves.
198
00:11:28,771 --> 00:11:33,359
That's really the dilemma of anything
that is predicated upon outrage
199
00:11:33,943 --> 00:11:34,819
because you...
200
00:11:34,902 --> 00:11:37,988
You know, the bar keeps
getting higher and higher.
201
00:11:38,072 --> 00:11:42,868
And it was also about balancing the
pressures coming from the outside.
202
00:11:43,536 --> 00:11:46,080
Not since the
game show scandal of the '50s
203
00:11:46,163 --> 00:11:49,709
has a TV show been under attack
like The Jerry Springer Show.
204
00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:52,837
There were pressures
about violence and fighting.
205
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,298
There was pressures about
ambushing and surprising.
206
00:11:57,091 --> 00:12:00,302
And then there were the pressures
about whether it was real or fake.
207
00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:12,940
Former Springer guests
seem to be coming out of the woodwork,
208
00:12:13,023 --> 00:12:17,486
many making allegations that elements
of Springer's show were staged.
209
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:19,655
Listen to the claims of
these Springer guests
210
00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:21,365
who recently
appeared on the show.
211
00:12:21,449 --> 00:12:25,536
When you took your ring off and put
it in her lap, that was not real?
212
00:12:25,619 --> 00:12:28,080
That was not real.
That was acting.
213
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:33,753
A lot of people say that it's all fake.
The fighting and stuff. Here, look.
214
00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:35,564
- Today's paper.
- Yeah, right on the front...
215
00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,548
The New York Post, right
there. "It's a fake."
216
00:12:37,631 --> 00:12:40,718
I can't think of another
show that could make the front page
217
00:12:40,801 --> 00:12:42,094
in the New York Post
218
00:12:42,178 --> 00:12:45,389
unless, you know, Oprah took out
a shotgun and killed somebody.
219
00:12:45,473 --> 00:12:47,767
People thought that they
were better than us.
220
00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:51,312
And so even if we
got the ratings,
221
00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:53,731
they would try to make
us feel bad about it.
222
00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:57,568
And I... I think it
was easy to pick on us.
223
00:12:57,651 --> 00:13:01,197
How many people here have been
on The Jerry Springer Show?
224
00:13:02,031 --> 00:13:06,285
How many of you actually rehearsed
your show before you went on?
225
00:13:06,994 --> 00:13:08,954
Wow.
226
00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:11,582
It was like,
"Springer's at it again."
227
00:13:11,665 --> 00:13:13,250
"Oh, it's all fake."
228
00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:16,712
"Of course they're getting
ratings. It's scripted."
229
00:13:17,213 --> 00:13:18,964
You know, "They made it all up."
230
00:13:19,048 --> 00:13:21,208
It's like, "No, we didn't."
Like, we didn't make it up.
231
00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:25,805
My personal directive
from Richard and Jerry
232
00:13:25,888 --> 00:13:27,973
was my stories cannot be fake.
233
00:13:28,057 --> 00:13:30,434
They must be real
people, real stories.
234
00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:33,187
They can't come on and
pretend they're fighting.
235
00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:35,022
We don't want to
see fake punches.
236
00:13:35,105 --> 00:13:37,566
We want... If someone's actually
gonna get to that point,
237
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:38,943
they need to really mean it.
238
00:13:39,026 --> 00:13:41,403
And they were pretty
serious about that.
239
00:13:42,738 --> 00:13:47,701
Does anybody have any evidence
that Jerry Springer himself
240
00:13:47,785 --> 00:13:49,745
knows about these "fakes"?
241
00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:51,580
No.
242
00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:53,999
His producers look like they
ran the show more than he did.
243
00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:55,083
Yeah.
244
00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:59,004
If any producer is telling guests what
to say, then that producer has to go.
245
00:13:59,088 --> 00:14:01,608
That's what I said to the company.
I want it all to be truthful.
246
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:04,472
How many times do you want me to say
that? I want it all to be truthful.
247
00:14:05,344 --> 00:14:09,139
Suddenly, I needed to
vet the hell out of my guests
248
00:14:09,223 --> 00:14:11,725
because if I have a fake
show, I'm getting fired.
249
00:14:12,309 --> 00:14:14,353
Oh, that doesn't matter. Okay.
250
00:14:14,436 --> 00:14:16,772
But I was so high-strung
at this point.
251
00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:19,733
I was so burnt out
that I just wanted
252
00:14:20,609 --> 00:14:24,113
warm bodies on my
show and a paycheck.
253
00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:25,196
Okay, bye.
254
00:14:26,407 --> 00:14:28,492
And that's when it all happened.
255
00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:32,079
It was just a typical
love triangle.
256
00:14:32,162 --> 00:14:34,790
Two guys, one woman, super easy.
257
00:14:35,624 --> 00:14:37,710
But I should have known
better, to be honest, really,
258
00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:40,004
because they were from Boston.
259
00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:43,799
And… Springer guests
aren't from Boston.
260
00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:47,803
I mean, these people, they didn't care.
They... They thought it was a big joke.
261
00:14:48,637 --> 00:14:51,557
So, of course, one guy took
a punch at the other guy,
262
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,477
and clearly, purposely, just
swiped right past his chin.
263
00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:57,563
And then the other guy
went flying backwards
264
00:14:57,646 --> 00:15:00,274
as if he'd actually been hit
when he had not been hit.
265
00:15:00,357 --> 00:15:02,359
And security knew, of course.
266
00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,403
So they're like, "What the f…?"
267
00:15:04,486 --> 00:15:07,698
You know, and then Richard
knew, and it was a disaster.
268
00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:11,702
I was in big trouble.
I lost my job.
269
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:18,042
So, victim of circumstance in
a lot of ways, in that regard.
270
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:21,086
I... I felt victimized
by it, personally.
271
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:25,633
Um, and Jerry's reaction
to the fake punch, what was that?
272
00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:30,387
I was only told. He didn't
tell me, um, to my face.
273
00:15:30,471 --> 00:15:33,557
But, you know, you would probably
see his face on camera, like…
274
00:15:34,183 --> 00:15:35,976
He would have probably
rolled his eyes.
275
00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:39,313
Probably went like this with his
cards, like, "What the hell?"
276
00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,399
He would have been very angry.
277
00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:45,152
Jerry! Jerry!
278
00:15:45,235 --> 00:15:47,795
When people were saying,
"Jerry, you're faking things,
279
00:15:47,821 --> 00:15:50,491
you're faking things," he
was taking it personally,
280
00:15:50,574 --> 00:15:52,660
because he certainly
wasn't faking things.
281
00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:57,748
So I... I... I think he defended the
show perhaps more than he needed to.
282
00:15:57,831 --> 00:16:00,793
I want the show to be honest because
that's the only way it works.
283
00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:02,716
Otherwise, you might as
well have a soap opera.
284
00:16:02,753 --> 00:16:04,505
God bless you.
285
00:16:05,089 --> 00:16:06,423
Steve, get him!
286
00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:08,592
At the height
of all the controversy,
287
00:16:09,468 --> 00:16:11,929
Jerry's teenage daughter, Katie,
288
00:16:12,012 --> 00:16:15,015
wrote a letter to a newspaper,
289
00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:19,603
which was the first time
we had ever heard from her
290
00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:22,606
in... in any form, at any time.
291
00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:28,153
"My name is Katie Springer.
I'm Jerry Springer's daughter."
292
00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:32,783
"The city of Chicago seems to be
in need of some facts about the man
293
00:16:32,866 --> 00:16:37,037
they have so slanderously
dubbed the King of Sleaze."
294
00:16:38,288 --> 00:16:41,041
"First of all, my dad
has more education
295
00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:44,837
than many of the so-called
journalists in this town."
296
00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:49,717
"Chicago is blessed to
have my dad on their team."
297
00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:52,636
"Yes, his show is crazy,
298
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,847
but that doesn't mean he is."
299
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:58,809
"People shouldn't judge
before they listen."
300
00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:01,270
"Katie S. Springer."
301
00:17:03,981 --> 00:17:05,581
I don't know why it
was such a big deal.
302
00:17:05,607 --> 00:17:09,737
Like, you just can't fake the... that
kind of passion, right?
303
00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:11,864
I mean, we didn't get to
the height of the ratings
304
00:17:11,947 --> 00:17:15,534
'cause we were such brilliant,
scripted, make-believe producers.
305
00:17:15,617 --> 00:17:17,703
She's making you look
like out there.
306
00:17:18,328 --> 00:17:22,750
We got there because we could
tap into people's emotions
307
00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:28,088
and find these things that are
troublesome and triggering,
308
00:17:28,797 --> 00:17:33,177
and then you feed them to the person
that's coming to confront them.
309
00:17:34,219 --> 00:17:35,888
And they freak out.
310
00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:39,516
I've been, uh... I've
been cheating on you.
311
00:17:42,728 --> 00:17:44,646
It's called
"shaping the missile."
312
00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:49,651
And
it's the dark side.
313
00:17:50,736 --> 00:17:52,696
You know
that baby's yours.
314
00:17:56,116 --> 00:17:58,494
As far as my mother
going on that show,
315
00:17:58,994 --> 00:18:02,873
it was shocking, to say the
least, that she agreed to do it.
316
00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:06,877
Like, what is going on here?
It was so out of character.
317
00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,924
I mean, growing up, I don't
remember my mother ever dating.
318
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,554
Maybe once or twice, but nothing like
a serious relationship or anything,
319
00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:19,598
um, being that she was a widow.
320
00:18:20,182 --> 00:18:24,770
But a friend of hers introduced
her to an AOL chat room.
321
00:18:26,021 --> 00:18:27,731
And that's
when she met Ralf.
322
00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:31,610
They started speaking
together, and a year later,
323
00:18:31,693 --> 00:18:34,196
he immigrated from
Germany to the US,
324
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,241
and then they got married
shortly after that.
325
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:43,831
But it wasn't long after
that there was a domestic issue.
326
00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:47,167
He had thrown her on the
floor, and she'd hit her head.
327
00:18:47,251 --> 00:18:49,753
After that, she left
and filed for divorce.
328
00:18:50,921 --> 00:18:53,715
All of a sudden, she was
in a big house alone,
329
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,926
and I... I think
she just got lonely.
330
00:18:56,009 --> 00:19:00,305
And that's why she went on the show,
to... to get him back, basically.
331
00:19:00,806 --> 00:19:04,017
Here she is, the woman
that's a thorn in your side.
332
00:19:04,101 --> 00:19:05,686
Nan.
333
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:12,067
My mother believed that
Ralf had been deported to Germany,
334
00:19:12,568 --> 00:19:17,865
and that the show was going to pay
for his travel back to America,
335
00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:20,909
and then they would reconcile,
336
00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:26,623
and that he would tell his new girlfriend
that he wanted to be with my mother.
337
00:19:28,417 --> 00:19:30,210
But she was basically lied to,
338
00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:32,838
because that never happened.
339
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:35,924
Nan, what's going on?
340
00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:39,469
Ralf and I are trying
to restore our marriage,
341
00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:40,387
and this, uh…
342
00:19:43,348 --> 00:19:45,684
and this trailer trash
won't leave us alone.
343
00:19:47,978 --> 00:19:51,231
Nan, Ralf loves me.
344
00:19:51,315 --> 00:19:52,858
Ralf wants to be with me.
345
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:57,946
And you redheaded bitch from
hell, you need to leave us alone.
346
00:19:59,031 --> 00:20:00,199
You need to get a life!
347
00:20:03,619 --> 00:20:08,081
I don't think my mother had
any idea what she was walking into.
348
00:20:08,832 --> 00:20:12,294
Why can't you accept that he left
you a few months ago to be with me?
349
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:14,713
- Are you so sure?
- Yes, I'm very sure.
350
00:20:14,796 --> 00:20:17,424
You said you talked to him the
last couple nights. Anything else?
351
00:20:17,507 --> 00:20:19,885
- I slept with him the last few days.
- You slept with him?!
352
00:20:19,968 --> 00:20:21,178
- Really?
- You haven't.
353
00:20:21,261 --> 00:20:25,015
Well, you know what? I hope you enjoyed
yourself immensely the last two nights
354
00:20:25,098 --> 00:20:27,517
because it's the last time
you're ever gonna see him.
355
00:20:27,601 --> 00:20:29,519
The last time!
356
00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:30,603
Oh, yeah?
357
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,649
He wants to be with me.
358
00:20:33,732 --> 00:20:36,568
He's back here to be with me.
359
00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:38,946
Why can't you accept that?
360
00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:44,117
It's pretty obvious that they
were there to ambush her.
361
00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:48,580
And the interesting thing is,
362
00:20:49,748 --> 00:20:51,416
the title of the show,
363
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,293
"Secret Mistresses,"
or whatever,
364
00:20:53,835 --> 00:20:57,089
if she had known that that
was the episode title,
365
00:20:57,172 --> 00:21:00,217
she probably would have thought twice,
but, you know, she didn't know that.
366
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,636
Here he is, Ralf.
367
00:21:12,771 --> 00:21:14,356
- Hi, Jerry.
- Hey, Ralf, how you doing?
368
00:21:14,439 --> 00:21:15,440
Pretty good.
369
00:21:16,108 --> 00:21:17,651
What's... What's going on here?
370
00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:22,572
- Yes, I had sex with my ex-wife yesterday.
- Yes?
371
00:21:22,656 --> 00:21:24,616
But the matter of the fact,
372
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,661
a month ago I married Ellie,
and I do love Eleanor.
373
00:21:33,834 --> 00:21:35,961
You can't humiliate this woman!
374
00:21:36,044 --> 00:21:38,444
- There's nothing that you can say!
- Give us a shot.
375
00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:45,137
The producers wanted
them to get physical, make threats,
376
00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:46,722
and she wasn't about to do that.
377
00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,266
He's telling you he doesn't
want to be with you.
378
00:21:49,349 --> 00:21:51,810
That's fine. Bye.
379
00:21:51,893 --> 00:21:53,186
All right!
380
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:55,689
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
381
00:21:59,901 --> 00:22:01,653
Backstage, she was informed
382
00:22:01,737 --> 00:22:05,365
that if she didn't return
to the end of the show,
383
00:22:05,449 --> 00:22:07,951
that they would not provide her
384
00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:10,162
with her return ticket
back to Florida.
385
00:22:12,664 --> 00:22:14,333
Certainly
during my tenure,
386
00:22:14,416 --> 00:22:16,335
that was a threat that
we would tell people
387
00:22:16,418 --> 00:22:18,337
before they ever got
on the plane to come.
388
00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:20,964
And a lot of people that came
on the show couldn't afford
389
00:22:21,048 --> 00:22:23,008
to pay for a plane ticket home.
390
00:22:23,091 --> 00:22:26,386
It was a tactic so that
you, as a producer,
391
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:28,805
had one more opportunity
to keep them.
392
00:22:29,806 --> 00:22:33,393
They should feel
beholden to you,
393
00:22:33,477 --> 00:22:35,604
that they're gonna let...
they're letting you down,
394
00:22:35,687 --> 00:22:37,898
and you've done all
of this for them.
395
00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:41,109
And she wasn't having that.
396
00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:42,611
She said, "No way."
397
00:22:43,862 --> 00:22:46,448
"You guys lied to me? I'm done."
398
00:22:54,247 --> 00:22:57,834
Somehow, she found her
way to the bus station in Chicago,
399
00:22:57,918 --> 00:23:00,003
walking along the
streets by herself,
400
00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:03,715
and didn't have any money,
didn't have anywhere to go.
401
00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:07,302
Just... Just her, crying.
402
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:16,645
Finally, a good
Samaritan saw her visibly upset
403
00:23:16,728 --> 00:23:19,689
and bought her a bus
ticket to come home.
404
00:23:21,608 --> 00:23:23,151
As strong as she was,
405
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:27,781
I'm sure she felt confused and
didn't understand what had happened.
406
00:23:31,493 --> 00:23:32,577
After the show,
407
00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:36,373
no one from The Jerry Springer
Show contacted to check on her,
408
00:23:36,456 --> 00:23:39,209
to see where... where
she was, where she went.
409
00:23:39,292 --> 00:23:41,711
As far as I know,
it never happened.
410
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:47,134
We weren't
problem solvers.
411
00:23:47,843 --> 00:23:50,345
We're gonna give you
a chance to come on,
412
00:23:51,054 --> 00:23:52,681
tell your story,
413
00:23:52,764 --> 00:23:54,349
get it all out,
414
00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,518
but we're not gonna help you.
415
00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:01,648
After the show was
over, we got them out and gone.
416
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:04,401
It was, "All right,
back to the greenroom."
417
00:24:04,484 --> 00:24:07,988
'You can grab your bags.
Limo's waiting. Go home."
418
00:24:08,071 --> 00:24:10,615
Then hope it's over.
And usually it was.
419
00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:15,871
After the
taping of the show,
420
00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:21,376
Mom was determined to, uh, go
on with her life without Ralf.
421
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:22,460
She didn't want
422
00:24:23,712 --> 00:24:25,338
any... anything more from him.
423
00:24:26,131 --> 00:24:29,217
And I don't know what happened
424
00:24:29,301 --> 00:24:32,387
in the two or three months
after they were on the stage,
425
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:37,642
but, um, somehow, it ended up, they
got back together at some point.
426
00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:40,187
And she put money
down on a home.
427
00:24:41,021 --> 00:24:46,109
And then he had went back
to his old ways, apparently.
428
00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:49,863
Uh, threatened her again,
and like she did on the show,
429
00:24:49,946 --> 00:24:51,573
she wasn't gonna
take it anymore.
430
00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:53,742
That's fine. Bye.
431
00:25:01,124 --> 00:25:02,459
I'm Lisa Kleinberg.
432
00:25:03,043 --> 00:25:04,127
I'm an attorney,
433
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:07,756
and I represented Nancy in a
domestic violence injunction
434
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,467
against her former
husband, Ralf Panitz.
435
00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:15,138
There had been several
incidents with Ralf before,
436
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,309
and this time Ralf had actually
kicked Nancy out of the house.
437
00:25:19,851 --> 00:25:23,522
Nancy had said to me that her and Ralf
had been on The Jerry Springer Show,
438
00:25:24,105 --> 00:25:26,274
and that it was gonna
air in two weeks.
439
00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:29,027
But that didn't
register with me.
440
00:25:29,611 --> 00:25:32,948
I just focused on the domestic
violence that had occurred.
441
00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:38,787
I really felt from her that this
was it between her and Ralf.
442
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:40,664
She was done with him.
443
00:25:40,747 --> 00:25:42,499
She just wanted to
move on with her life.
444
00:25:42,582 --> 00:25:44,960
She wanted to get
back into her house,
445
00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:46,962
and she wanted to get settled.
446
00:25:50,423 --> 00:25:53,760
I remember there was a bit of
anxiety before we walked into court.
447
00:25:54,261 --> 00:25:55,554
Nancy was very nervous.
448
00:25:55,637 --> 00:25:56,997
This was really
important to Nancy
449
00:25:57,055 --> 00:26:00,600
as that, you know, Nancy was
living basically out of her car.
450
00:26:00,684 --> 00:26:02,185
She was completely displaced.
451
00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,772
The judge granted her
sole ownership of the home
452
00:26:05,855 --> 00:26:08,149
and a restraining
order against him.
453
00:26:08,233 --> 00:26:10,068
He wasn't supposed
to be in the home.
454
00:26:10,151 --> 00:26:11,736
So it was a relief.
455
00:26:12,946 --> 00:26:14,447
She was ready to move on.
456
00:26:15,657 --> 00:26:18,201
When Ralf walked out of the
courtroom, he didn't, like…
457
00:26:18,285 --> 00:26:20,412
He wasn't cursing,
he wasn't stomping.
458
00:26:20,495 --> 00:26:23,248
He just kind of seemed resigned
to the... to the ruling,
459
00:26:23,331 --> 00:26:28,336
and he kind of walked out fairly…
calmly, and there really wasn't an issue.
460
00:26:30,213 --> 00:26:32,591
Right. So you're not…
461
00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:34,634
But then
he went to a bar.
462
00:26:35,927 --> 00:26:39,472
And they were playing his
episode of The Jerry Springer Show.
463
00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:42,142
This is Ralf. He plays
the games with all his women.
464
00:26:42,225 --> 00:26:44,686
He takes all the money... He
takes all the money he can get...
465
00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:47,272
Nancy, he's never
played any games with me.
466
00:26:47,772 --> 00:26:50,609
Ralf watched the entire show,
467
00:26:51,943 --> 00:26:52,861
getting drunk,
468
00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:54,529
and he was getting
more agitated.
469
00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:56,406
Do you think, like,
he's playing you,
470
00:26:56,489 --> 00:26:58,529
and... and maybe it's time
for you to tell him it's…
471
00:26:58,575 --> 00:26:59,492
Oh, sure, he is.
472
00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:04,289
I think that that is
the thing that really pushed Ralf,
473
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,585
because at some point, he
said to somebody in the bar,
474
00:27:08,668 --> 00:27:09,919
"I'm gonna kill her."
475
00:27:12,255 --> 00:27:15,467
That story was
produced by one of my colleagues.
476
00:27:16,176 --> 00:27:18,345
So when the scandal broke,
477
00:27:18,428 --> 00:27:22,849
I'd just come into the office, and
it was a different sort of mood.
478
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:27,270
Everybody was like, "Did you
hear?" And I'm like, "No."
479
00:27:28,063 --> 00:27:31,650
And they said, "It's our worst
nightmare. The lawyers are on their way."
480
00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:34,319
And I was like, "What the
fuck are you talking about?"
481
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:38,239
I was at work.
482
00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,910
A family member
showed up and said
483
00:27:41,993 --> 00:27:43,119
that I needed to…
484
00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:46,623
call and talk to a
detective in Florida.
485
00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:51,378
So I left work immediately
and went home and called.
486
00:27:55,757 --> 00:27:57,801
They told me what had happened,
487
00:27:58,468 --> 00:28:01,721
that someone had
attacked... attacked my mom,
488
00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:04,515
choked her,
489
00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:08,937
pushed her down on the floor,
and stomped on her head.
490
00:28:10,897 --> 00:28:12,649
That that was her
cause of death.
491
00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:22,992
They said it was
one of the worst scenes
492
00:28:23,076 --> 00:28:24,911
that they've ever,
ever encountered.
493
00:28:27,247 --> 00:28:28,790
I was pretty... pretty shocked.
494
00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:30,458
I didn't know what to think.
495
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:34,254
I… I wanted to break something.
You know?
496
00:28:35,547 --> 00:28:36,547
I don't know.
497
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:41,553
I didn't know
anything about Ralf
498
00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:46,057
or anybody else being a suspect or
anything until it came on the news.
499
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,394
Forty-year-old
Ralf Panitz and his new wife,
500
00:28:49,477 --> 00:28:52,105
45-year-old Eleanor Panitz,
are the two that are wanted
501
00:28:52,188 --> 00:28:54,941
and are now the targets
of a worldwide search.
502
00:28:55,483 --> 00:28:57,110
All
three people involved
503
00:28:57,193 --> 00:28:59,738
had been on The Jerry
Springer Show that day.
504
00:29:04,367 --> 00:29:06,578
Jerry Springer
made good copy,
505
00:29:06,661 --> 00:29:10,999
and a murder related to Jerry
Springer made even better copy.
506
00:29:11,082 --> 00:29:14,377
So it was irresistible
as a story.
507
00:29:16,838 --> 00:29:19,132
It became another circus
508
00:29:19,674 --> 00:29:23,052
of going after Jerry and
going after the show.
509
00:29:25,096 --> 00:29:27,474
Mom was definitely
lost in the coverage.
510
00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:31,269
I mean, whenever
they would report it,
511
00:29:31,352 --> 00:29:33,062
the... the first
line would always be,
512
00:29:33,146 --> 00:29:36,775
"Guest on the Springer
show brutally murdered."
513
00:29:36,858 --> 00:29:39,319
Instead of his guests, Jerry
Springer's in the hot seat.
514
00:29:40,069 --> 00:29:42,572
It was just
a constant onslaught.
515
00:29:42,655 --> 00:29:45,241
Like every half hour
they would do an update.
516
00:29:46,075 --> 00:29:47,410
I couldn't get away from it.
517
00:29:48,995 --> 00:29:51,223
Do you think the show
had anything to do with it,
518
00:29:51,247 --> 00:29:53,249
or do you think it
was pure coincidence?
519
00:29:53,333 --> 00:29:56,127
- Well, I can't comment further, you know.
- Okay.
520
00:29:56,211 --> 00:29:58,922
People happen to have been on
the show, as I understand it, so…
521
00:29:59,005 --> 00:30:01,565
But, you know, I hope they get
the killer, that's the main thing.
522
00:30:01,591 --> 00:30:03,676
The rest is just television.
It's just, you know…
523
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,529
- Do you remember...
- So we'll cooperate fully.
524
00:30:05,553 --> 00:30:07,722
But as I said, I can't
comment further, okay?
525
00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:09,891
- Do you remember those people at all?
- No.
526
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,434
- All right.
- Okay?
527
00:30:11,518 --> 00:30:12,798
You're mic'ed up, Jerry.
528
00:30:12,852 --> 00:30:15,122
Can I get one cut shot
of just you standing there?
529
00:30:15,146 --> 00:30:16,981
Jerry Springer, he just
kind of blew it off,
530
00:30:17,065 --> 00:30:18,817
like, "What do I know about it?"
531
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,612
How disrespectful can
you be? It's just awful.
532
00:30:24,447 --> 00:30:26,825
She was murdered,
and what I'd like to know is,
533
00:30:26,908 --> 00:30:29,327
did The Jerry Springer Show,
knowing he was violent,
534
00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:32,247
offer her any form of
protection after the show,
535
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:34,207
um, any form of counselling?
536
00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:35,166
And do they care?
537
00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:37,210
They got their pound of flesh.
538
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:39,676
Police say
Ralf and Eleanor Panitz
539
00:30:39,712 --> 00:30:42,423
are wanted for questioning
in connection to the murder,
540
00:30:42,507 --> 00:30:45,343
and they have also secured a
copy of The Jerry Springer Show
541
00:30:45,426 --> 00:30:47,345
as part of their investigation.
542
00:30:47,428 --> 00:30:48,429
Jerry!
543
00:30:48,513 --> 00:30:51,391
The rumors were
we were gonna be subpoenaed,
544
00:30:51,933 --> 00:30:54,978
and that's when Richard called
me into a meeting and he said,
545
00:30:55,812 --> 00:31:01,234
"You know, I like that Jamaica
show idea, at a swingers' resort."
546
00:31:02,235 --> 00:31:05,196
I'm like, "What do you mean?"
Like, you know, "Who's going?"
547
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,739
And he's like, "Everyone."
548
00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:08,950
And I was like, "Are
you fucking kidding me?"
549
00:31:09,033 --> 00:31:11,035
And he was like,
"No, absolutely."
550
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,540
There's a rumor going
out that the company took
551
00:31:15,623 --> 00:31:17,834
the ent...
the entire show
552
00:31:18,334 --> 00:31:22,255
and s... sent us to Jamaica to
get Jerry out of the country.
553
00:31:23,131 --> 00:31:25,341
That's bullshit,
because, you know,
554
00:31:25,425 --> 00:31:30,597
you can't take a whole show
and 60 people on a whim.
555
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,308
"Oh, we're gonna go to
Jamaica." It's impossible.
556
00:31:33,391 --> 00:31:34,934
I don't want Richard
to get mad at me,
557
00:31:35,018 --> 00:31:37,562
but, like, if you were
gonna subpoena somebody,
558
00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:39,063
all of them were there.
559
00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,233
That's a great coincidence.
560
00:31:43,484 --> 00:31:44,694
Yeah, perfect.
561
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,656
- Jerry, Jerry.
- Oh.
562
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:50,199
- What? What?
- We're taping.
563
00:31:50,283 --> 00:31:52,243
I know, I know. We were
just talking business.
564
00:31:52,327 --> 00:31:54,245
- All right, I'll see you later.
- Bye!
565
00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:55,705
The show, the show. Oh, hi.
566
00:31:55,788 --> 00:31:58,750
Here we are in, uh… Here
we are… Where are we?
567
00:31:58,833 --> 00:32:01,502
We are in Hedonism
II in Jamaica…
568
00:32:01,586 --> 00:32:04,547
So do you think that
was Richard protecting the show?
569
00:32:07,717 --> 00:32:09,093
We didn't get subpoenaed.
570
00:32:10,094 --> 00:32:13,222
You know what I mean?
Like, they didn't subpoena anyone.
571
00:32:13,723 --> 00:32:17,143
A man whose former wife was
killed after they appeared
572
00:32:17,226 --> 00:32:20,605
on the American television
program The Jerry Springer Show
573
00:32:20,688 --> 00:32:23,650
has been arrested by police
and charged with her murder.
574
00:32:25,026 --> 00:32:28,529
Eleanor Panitz was
initially held as a material witness,
575
00:32:28,613 --> 00:32:29,781
but hasn't been charged.
576
00:32:29,864 --> 00:32:32,744
Does this have anything
to do with the Springer show at all?
577
00:32:34,827 --> 00:32:38,122
Are we responsible for months
after they leave the show
578
00:32:38,206 --> 00:32:40,708
for everything that
happens in their life?
579
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:43,127
We're not. We're not
responsible for that.
580
00:32:44,295 --> 00:32:45,975
I don't mean
to trivialize this.
581
00:32:46,047 --> 00:32:48,424
It was a very, very sad event.
582
00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:51,970
But it has nothing
to do with the show.
583
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,475
If Jerry Springer thought he was involved
in that in any way, he would have quit.
584
00:32:58,226 --> 00:33:01,062
At the height of his
popularity, he would have quit
585
00:33:01,145 --> 00:33:03,439
if he thought he had
anything to do with that.
586
00:33:05,191 --> 00:33:09,404
They did not take any responsibility
for their part in any of this.
587
00:33:10,905 --> 00:33:13,616
But Springer's
involvement in the case
588
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:16,369
was brought up several
times in court.
589
00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:21,249
We were just supposed
to go and tell our story.
590
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,460
And then they were
gonna bring Nancy out,
591
00:33:24,544 --> 00:33:26,921
and then we were gonna tell
her that we were married,
592
00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:28,840
and she needed to
leave us alone.
593
00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:31,884
That was never supposed to be
594
00:33:31,968 --> 00:33:35,054
where Nancy spent the
night with my husband
595
00:33:35,138 --> 00:33:36,681
and had sex with my husband.
596
00:33:36,764 --> 00:33:38,683
That was never part
of the plan at all.
597
00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:46,107
Ralf Panitz, the
jury having found you guilty
598
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:50,319
in count one of the indictment
of murder in the second degree,
599
00:33:50,403 --> 00:33:52,613
the court now
adjudicates you guilty.
600
00:33:53,865 --> 00:33:56,909
"Circuit Court Judge
Nancy Donnellan gave Panitz
601
00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:59,037
the maximum sentence
allowed under Florida law
602
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,621
for second-degree murder,
603
00:34:00,705 --> 00:34:03,708
saying a life sentence is
the only just sentence."
604
00:34:04,208 --> 00:34:07,003
"The judge had harsh words
for the Springer show,
605
00:34:07,086 --> 00:34:10,631
which had fea... featured the
warring couple and Eleanor."
606
00:34:11,174 --> 00:34:15,219
"'The trio were manipulated by the
show to increase their humiliation.'"
607
00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:18,473
"'It was and is reprehensible,
' the judge said."
608
00:34:18,556 --> 00:34:21,559
"'To Jerry Springer and
his producers, I ask you,
609
00:34:21,642 --> 00:34:24,687
are ratings more important than
the dignity of human life?'"
610
00:34:24,771 --> 00:34:28,024
"'Shame on you, ' the judge
said. 'Shame on you.'"
611
00:34:30,068 --> 00:34:33,112
My mom was a wonderful woman. I
mean, she... she was really great.
612
00:34:33,196 --> 00:34:35,323
She raised two young
boys by herself.
613
00:34:35,406 --> 00:34:38,826
And she was just a great woman.
She was fun to be around.
614
00:34:39,327 --> 00:34:41,704
Um, she just definitely
didn't deserve that.
615
00:34:43,372 --> 00:34:46,501
I feel like this
whole situation just…
616
00:34:48,544 --> 00:34:51,923
erased the whole
middle part of my life.
617
00:34:52,465 --> 00:34:56,844
Like, dealt with it for
the last 20 years now.
618
00:34:58,346 --> 00:35:01,849
At this point, I would hope I
would have a blossoming career,
619
00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:03,267
and be moving on,
620
00:35:03,351 --> 00:35:08,147
but here I am 24 years later
still talking about it, you know.
621
00:35:08,856 --> 00:35:09,899
I just…
622
00:35:09,982 --> 00:35:12,151
It's had a pretty big impact.
623
00:35:12,235 --> 00:35:14,278
Can't... Hard to
trust people anymore.
624
00:35:15,238 --> 00:35:16,114
So…
625
00:35:20,451 --> 00:35:23,287
Ultimately, the
murder didn't hurt the show.
626
00:35:23,871 --> 00:35:24,997
Nothing hurt the show.
627
00:35:25,581 --> 00:35:27,291
And you redheaded
bitch from hell…
628
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,839
But this episode
vividly dramatized
629
00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:35,091
how dangerous things had become.
630
00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:38,594
These were real human beings
631
00:35:38,678 --> 00:35:41,180
with real emotional issues.
632
00:35:41,264 --> 00:35:42,890
Here he is, Ralf.
633
00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:47,937
People who were
so mentally unstable
634
00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:51,899
that they could commit
murder over these issues.
635
00:35:53,192 --> 00:35:55,695
To hold those up
as entertainment,
636
00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:57,445
as sport,
637
00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:02,910
as something for audiences to
be cheering and jeering over,
638
00:36:03,661 --> 00:36:07,039
that's about as dark as
it could possibly get.
639
00:36:15,673 --> 00:36:17,383
I wasn't doing well.
640
00:36:18,301 --> 00:36:24,098
Emotionally, the pressure of that
show was... was kicking my ass.
641
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:27,560
I mean, stuff starts
to grate at you,
642
00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:30,605
you know, of things that
you ask people to do
643
00:36:30,688 --> 00:36:33,149
in the name of entertainment.
644
00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:35,026
You know?
645
00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:39,322
But at the end of the day, my
pressure was to please Richard.
646
00:36:40,823 --> 00:36:41,991
And that was it.
647
00:36:42,074 --> 00:36:44,114
You talk about
giving people what they want,
648
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,662
but where... where would you
personally, uh, draw the lines?
649
00:36:46,746 --> 00:36:49,457
Oh, I would not.
There's no line to draw.
650
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:53,294
If I could kill someone on television,
if I could execute 'em on television,
651
00:36:53,377 --> 00:36:55,338
I would execute
them on television.
652
00:36:56,964 --> 00:36:59,634
The only way that
I could deal with it was,
653
00:36:59,717 --> 00:37:04,180
I was shit-faced
hammered for four days.
654
00:37:08,976 --> 00:37:11,145
Then I'd, you know,
sober up and do my show,
655
00:37:11,229 --> 00:37:13,606
and then crawl
back into a bottle,
656
00:37:14,523 --> 00:37:16,984
pumping my body full of tequila.
657
00:37:17,693 --> 00:37:20,154
You know, and then the
tequila stopped working.
658
00:37:20,738 --> 00:37:22,448
Cocaine's right on
the heels of it.
659
00:37:35,086 --> 00:37:36,086
Fuck.
660
00:37:46,847 --> 00:37:50,059
I remember one
night, a woman called the show
661
00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:52,561
'cause she wanted
to tell her dad
662
00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:58,567
to stop ordering her at the
website that she's a hooker on,
663
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,779
'cause they'd send her. Um…
664
00:38:03,447 --> 00:38:05,199
And she'd have to do the job.
665
00:38:06,075 --> 00:38:09,912
This had been going on since
she was like 16, right?
666
00:38:10,788 --> 00:38:13,332
Uh, and I'm like, "I'm not
gonna get this fucking story."
667
00:38:13,416 --> 00:38:16,002
Like, the dad's not
gonna come, right?
668
00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:17,336
And he came.
669
00:38:19,046 --> 00:38:20,798
And I was, like, dumbfounded.
670
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:28,931
We had them under aliases
in different hotels,
671
00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:31,017
and they didn't know
where each other were.
672
00:38:31,726 --> 00:38:33,811
And I went over to
her hotel first,
673
00:38:34,603 --> 00:38:36,147
um, just to see
how she was doing.
674
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:38,816
And, uh, I knocked on the door.
675
00:38:38,899 --> 00:38:42,194
And her dad opened
the door in a towel.
676
00:38:43,821 --> 00:38:45,156
And she came to the door.
677
00:38:45,948 --> 00:38:50,161
You could tell that
she was… embarrassed.
678
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:55,249
They'd just got done,
you know, having sex.
679
00:38:56,083 --> 00:38:58,544
It was like putting two
barrels of a shotgun to my head
680
00:38:58,627 --> 00:39:00,046
and pulling the fucking trigger.
681
00:39:00,129 --> 00:39:01,130
You know?
682
00:39:01,213 --> 00:39:04,717
That's something that I don't
think I need to contribute to.
683
00:39:12,892 --> 00:39:14,935
And that
was the fucking end for me.
684
00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:21,233
You know, I quit the show.
685
00:39:23,110 --> 00:39:25,363
I didn't tell anybody. I
didn't even tell Richard.
686
00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:29,617
I literally packed my shit into
a truck and I was a no-show,
687
00:39:30,368 --> 00:39:34,080
and I wasn't responding
to any calls or anything.
688
00:39:34,580 --> 00:39:37,917
And then I got a call from
a number I didn't recognize.
689
00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:42,338
It was Richard, and he said,
"You're not coming back, are you?"
690
00:39:42,963 --> 00:39:44,256
I said, "I can't."
691
00:39:46,175 --> 00:39:49,220
And he said, you know, "I understand,
and take care of yourself."
692
00:39:50,137 --> 00:39:51,972
And I couldn't stop crying.
693
00:39:53,974 --> 00:39:55,142
I was broken.
694
00:40:09,657 --> 00:40:10,741
Go. Ready to roll.
695
00:40:10,825 --> 00:40:12,952
- Roll for speed.
- Yeah, okay, and…
696
00:40:16,705 --> 00:40:18,332
Thank you. Hey,
welcome to the show.
697
00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:21,168
You know, over the years, we've
done some really crazy shows
698
00:40:21,252 --> 00:40:22,837
with some very wild guests,
699
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,256
and our latest season has
been hotter than ever.
700
00:40:25,339 --> 00:40:28,134
In some cases, too hot for TV.
701
00:40:29,969 --> 00:40:34,557
After the murder case, there
was a lot of lawyers worried.
702
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,434
"We don't want any nudity."
703
00:40:36,517 --> 00:40:38,686
"We don't want
people complaining."
704
00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:41,021
"We don't want
things in the press."
705
00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:44,066
They were cracking down,
cracking down, cracking down,
706
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:45,484
on things we were doing,
707
00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:50,114
and they were slowly removing
the life from the show.
708
00:40:50,197 --> 00:40:52,867
- Ooh!
- Oh, I know how you feel.
709
00:40:54,243 --> 00:40:57,788
I think that as time
went on, as our culture shifted,
710
00:40:58,372 --> 00:41:00,458
it just didn't
seem as important.
711
00:41:00,541 --> 00:41:04,837
It didn't seem as vital
to the public conversation
712
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,547
as it was at the beginning.
713
00:41:08,174 --> 00:41:10,384
The show
never really recovered
714
00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:12,720
after it lost its
initial audience,
715
00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:16,307
and having beat Oprah
for weeks in a row,
716
00:41:16,932 --> 00:41:17,975
we dropped off.
717
00:41:18,058 --> 00:41:20,144
The guy in the end, why
don't you go to a tanning bed
718
00:41:20,227 --> 00:41:22,021
and get rid of that red neck?
719
00:41:23,522 --> 00:41:25,649
We're proud of our rednecks
where we come from.
720
00:41:26,525 --> 00:41:28,360
It became mediocre.
721
00:41:28,986 --> 00:41:30,905
It was the most popular
show on television,
722
00:41:31,405 --> 00:41:32,781
and now they're killing it.
723
00:41:32,865 --> 00:41:34,366
And after a while,
724
00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:35,868
they killed me too.
725
00:41:35,951 --> 00:41:37,244
I'm finished.
726
00:41:44,585 --> 00:41:47,004
And then, well after I was gone,
727
00:41:47,505 --> 00:41:51,967
um, they just wanted to
squeeze every penny out of it,
728
00:41:52,051 --> 00:41:55,429
and the show just became
the same thing every day.
729
00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:58,849
My guests say it's time to
leave the past behind them.
730
00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:00,017
They are ready to rumble.
731
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:01,936
Shivering from the
cold and bitterness
732
00:42:02,019 --> 00:42:04,939
that has taken their...
over their relationships.
733
00:42:05,022 --> 00:42:08,859
A lonely cross-dresser who wore
his dead mother's underwear.
734
00:42:08,943 --> 00:42:11,737
Please meet Heather,
Debbie, Ryan.
735
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:14,907
Jade says she's tired of
making room for her mother.
736
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:17,451
…boyfriend has cheated on
her one too many times.
737
00:42:17,535 --> 00:42:19,036
Well, still in the game.
738
00:42:21,455 --> 00:42:24,500
Jerry!
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
739
00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:28,045
The pact that Jerry made
with Richard Dominick
740
00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:31,799
was a bargain that really
caused him to sell his soul.
741
00:42:33,467 --> 00:42:37,429
And I believe that
he knew every day of his life
742
00:42:38,055 --> 00:42:41,642
that what he was doing
was really beneath him
743
00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:43,978
and beneath his dignity.
744
00:42:44,061 --> 00:42:47,648
I'd like to take this
opportunity to frankly apologize
745
00:42:47,731 --> 00:42:49,525
for everything I've
ever done in television.
746
00:42:49,608 --> 00:42:51,652
I have ruined the culture.
747
00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:55,197
Yes, he got the
success and the riches,
748
00:42:55,281 --> 00:42:58,242
but what did he have to
do in order to achieve it?
749
00:42:58,742 --> 00:43:01,287
It's a perversion of
the American dream.
750
00:43:01,370 --> 00:43:04,373
I just hope hell isn't
that hot. I burn real easy.
751
00:43:04,456 --> 00:43:06,292
I'm very light-complected.
752
00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:08,127
I hope you all pray for me,
753
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:10,671
because if I get to
heaven, you're all going.
754
00:43:10,754 --> 00:43:14,425
Is there an... a TV show you watch
you're embarrassed to admit you watch?
755
00:43:14,508 --> 00:43:16,719
The Jerry Springer Show.
756
00:43:17,845 --> 00:43:20,556
It was a low
point for television,
757
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:24,226
and TV Guide has since named
The Jerry Springer Show
758
00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:27,646
the worst television
show of all time.
759
00:43:28,147 --> 00:43:30,399
All time! The worst!
760
00:43:30,482 --> 00:43:31,817
I will fuck you up, Angela.
761
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:33,193
You want to fuck me up?
762
00:43:34,403 --> 00:43:36,780
It's also
ushered in an era
763
00:43:36,864 --> 00:43:40,743
that we're living in
now where anything goes,
764
00:43:40,826 --> 00:43:44,204
and where there are no
guardrails or boundaries.
765
00:43:44,288 --> 00:43:46,123
- Don't touch my daughter!
- You bitch!
766
00:43:46,206 --> 00:43:47,416
Do it!
767
00:43:47,499 --> 00:43:50,294
I look at some of the
stuff that's being done now and I go,
768
00:43:50,377 --> 00:43:52,963
"Eh, we're kind of
responsible for this crap."
769
00:43:53,047 --> 00:43:54,632
Guys, stop it!
770
00:43:54,715 --> 00:43:55,841
Kourtney!
771
00:43:55,924 --> 00:43:56,759
What on earth?
772
00:43:56,842 --> 00:43:58,844
Maybe, you know, I
am gonna go to hell.
773
00:43:59,637 --> 00:44:02,264
The Jerry Springer Show gave
a lot of people permission
774
00:44:02,348 --> 00:44:04,892
to say whatever falls
out of your mouth.
775
00:44:04,975 --> 00:44:06,810
You dropped to your knees?
776
00:44:06,894 --> 00:44:07,770
Yes.
777
00:44:07,853 --> 00:44:10,147
Must be a pretty picture,
you dropping to your knees.
778
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:12,066
…I should
be, Omarosa said me.
779
00:44:12,816 --> 00:44:16,362
I mean, it's the ruination
of American culture.
780
00:44:16,445 --> 00:44:18,322
Step up,
motherfucker. What you got?
781
00:44:21,241 --> 00:44:24,370
I don't think they've ever been
held accountable for anything.
782
00:44:25,204 --> 00:44:28,040
I'm sure there have been other
people that have been affected,
783
00:44:28,123 --> 00:44:29,643
other guests that
we don't know about,
784
00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:34,338
or people just watching the show at
home think, "Oh, this is normal."
785
00:44:34,963 --> 00:44:36,048
It's not.
786
00:44:36,548 --> 00:44:38,509
Look at the history of the show.
787
00:44:39,927 --> 00:44:43,263
A guy punches a girl in the
face, it gets huge ratings.
788
00:44:44,098 --> 00:44:46,767
We put a girl without
clothes on the show,
789
00:44:46,850 --> 00:44:48,769
everybody loses their mind.
790
00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:53,524
And it's like the worst and greatest
thing that's ever happened. Right?
791
00:44:53,607 --> 00:44:56,610
All you guys want to talk
about is all that shit.
792
00:44:57,736 --> 00:44:58,570
There's a reason,
793
00:44:58,654 --> 00:45:02,199
'cause everybody that's on the
other end of that camera on Netflix,
794
00:45:02,282 --> 00:45:03,659
sitting in their living room,
795
00:45:03,742 --> 00:45:07,871
only wants to hear about the
Shetland pony with underwear…
796
00:45:09,498 --> 00:45:11,917
…the murder that
was or was not our fault,
797
00:45:12,584 --> 00:45:14,545
but, you know,
we're the problem.
798
00:45:15,796 --> 00:45:17,965
You know, if none
of that happened,
799
00:45:18,048 --> 00:45:20,300
there's no documentary
on Netflix.
800
00:45:21,427 --> 00:45:22,261
Full stop.
801
00:45:22,344 --> 00:45:24,304
I think you can call
it a wrap right there.
802
00:45:24,388 --> 00:45:25,931
Roll credits. We're done.
65153
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