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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,135 --> 00:00:13,263 Let's go. Okay, are you comfortable? 2 00:00:13,346 --> 00:00:14,973 - Yes. - Okay, cool. 3 00:00:15,557 --> 00:00:21,557 So I wonder if... if I could start by just asking you about your mom. 4 00:00:23,023 --> 00:00:24,441 Just tell... tell me about her. 5 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,862 Yeah, um... Yeah. She was a really good mother. 6 00:00:28,945 --> 00:00:32,282 I mean, my dad died when I was just a... a toddler, 7 00:00:32,365 --> 00:00:35,326 so she raised me and my brother by herself. 8 00:00:35,952 --> 00:00:39,164 I mean, she was strong, independent. 9 00:00:39,956 --> 00:00:42,667 Just, you know, a great person, you know? 10 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:53,178 I was pretty surprised when she told me about going on the show. 11 00:00:56,139 --> 00:00:58,683 She didn't like having her picture taken very much. 12 00:00:58,767 --> 00:01:02,187 She always tried to hide her face or hide behind something 13 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:06,024 or hold something up so she wouldn't be in... in the pictures. 14 00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:14,449 So to see her up there on the stage just looking like, 15 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:18,578 you know, a deer caught in the headlights, like, "What is going on here?" 16 00:01:18,661 --> 00:01:20,038 You need to get a life. 17 00:01:20,121 --> 00:01:23,249 I just wish I could go back and say to her, "Don't do it." 18 00:01:26,127 --> 00:01:27,587 Jerry! Jerry! 19 00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:29,464 The bigger that show got, 20 00:01:29,547 --> 00:01:33,426 the more it raised questions, larger questions, 21 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,846 about what really went on backstage. 22 00:01:37,430 --> 00:01:38,556 Where you going? 23 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,350 She's saying she's leaving. 24 00:01:40,433 --> 00:01:43,812 I mean, it was highly stressful, it was highly competitive. 25 00:01:43,895 --> 00:01:47,190 I need to be able to hear you. You guys are such at a great level… 26 00:01:47,273 --> 00:01:51,194 And there are a lot of things that these producers felt they had to do 27 00:01:51,277 --> 00:01:52,737 that I'm sure they're not proud of. 28 00:01:52,821 --> 00:01:54,364 I've been seeing somebody else. 29 00:01:54,447 --> 00:01:55,448 You what? 30 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:59,577 They had to create all kinds of combustible situations 31 00:01:59,661 --> 00:02:02,330 because they want to get that spark, they want to get the heat, 32 00:02:02,413 --> 00:02:04,332 they want to get the explosion. 33 00:02:04,415 --> 00:02:06,084 And yet, they had to know 34 00:02:06,167 --> 00:02:08,753 that when the show was over and the lights were off, 35 00:02:08,837 --> 00:02:11,089 and those guests were sent on their way home, 36 00:02:11,172 --> 00:02:15,218 that they might have really changed their lives for the worse. 37 00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:16,301 Forever. 38 00:02:16,886 --> 00:02:19,686 Let me take this opportunity to thank you for being with us. 39 00:02:19,722 --> 00:02:22,522 And I hope you're able to find some peace in your future relationships. 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,144 I hope it works out for you. 41 00:02:40,743 --> 00:02:43,413 The initial turning point came one Saturday, 42 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,376 when we got called into, like, an emergency meeting in... 43 00:02:48,459 --> 00:02:49,878 at NBC Tower. 44 00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:51,588 Just producers. 45 00:02:51,671 --> 00:02:53,047 Producers, senior staff. 46 00:02:54,465 --> 00:02:57,594 All of a sudden, the door opens and Jerry comes in. 47 00:02:58,595 --> 00:03:00,680 And that's, like, super bizarre. 48 00:03:00,763 --> 00:03:02,724 Jerry's never in on a weekend. 49 00:03:02,807 --> 00:03:04,851 Like, nope, not a thing. 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,438 And he just says, "You know, guys, I'm really sorry." 51 00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:11,524 "But, you know, there's nothing more to say now." 52 00:03:12,442 --> 00:03:13,443 And that's it. 53 00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:16,821 Walks out of the room. We're all like, "What?" 54 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,537 It turns out there was a story about Jerry 55 00:03:24,621 --> 00:03:28,249 having a threesome with some guests from the show. 56 00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:31,211 I'm like, "There's no way." 57 00:03:31,878 --> 00:03:33,922 "There's no way. They're lying." 58 00:03:35,423 --> 00:03:37,425 And, uh, then I saw the pictures. 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,515 It was weird 'cause it was Jerry, 'cause we never looked at him like that. 60 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:46,351 Most of us would never dream of exposing 61 00:03:46,434 --> 00:03:48,519 our most intimate secrets to the whole world. 62 00:03:48,603 --> 00:03:50,313 We cherish our privacy 63 00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:52,398 and want others to see only that side of us 64 00:03:52,482 --> 00:03:53,858 we choose to present. 65 00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:58,196 He was always very private about his private life. 66 00:03:58,279 --> 00:04:01,074 He never talked about his ex-wife, 67 00:04:01,157 --> 00:04:04,244 um, the relationship that they continued to have, 68 00:04:04,327 --> 00:04:08,915 and the circumstances of his custody with his daughter. 69 00:04:10,917 --> 00:04:14,671 Jerry absolutely loved his ex-wife. 70 00:04:15,421 --> 00:04:18,549 They were amicably separated and really good friends. 71 00:04:20,176 --> 00:04:23,846 His daughter, um, had some disabilities. 72 00:04:24,931 --> 00:04:26,057 And he… 73 00:04:27,684 --> 00:04:30,603 He, you know, he put her up on a pedestal. 74 00:04:31,938 --> 00:04:33,564 How's your daughter doing now? 75 00:04:37,402 --> 00:04:38,820 Yeah, you know, um… 76 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:43,908 To the audience, 77 00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:47,328 Jerry was a stand-up father and husband. 78 00:04:49,330 --> 00:04:52,542 So he got very lucky that it just kind of fizzled. 79 00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:55,920 I mean, if it had happened now, 80 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,631 it would have been a cancel moment. 81 00:04:59,549 --> 00:05:00,633 For sure. 82 00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:03,303 You know, the guests are the guests. 83 00:05:04,178 --> 00:05:06,014 They've got their own problems. 84 00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:09,517 So you don't cross that line. 85 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,729 - Thank you. Thank you very much. - Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! 86 00:05:12,812 --> 00:05:15,773 But the audience honestly didn't care. 87 00:05:16,858 --> 00:05:19,527 I mean, he's Jerry Springer, for fuck's sakes. 88 00:05:19,610 --> 00:05:23,865 Please welcome the star of that clip, Mr. Jerry Springer! 89 00:05:26,784 --> 00:05:29,662 Jerry loved being a star. 90 00:05:29,746 --> 00:05:32,332 He... He didn't act it. He didn't act like a star, 91 00:05:32,415 --> 00:05:34,917 but he loved the fact that he was. 92 00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:37,003 - Jerry, why do I love your show? - Yes? 93 00:05:37,086 --> 00:05:40,006 Why do we all love your show so much? What's wrong with us? 94 00:05:43,051 --> 00:05:46,262 I don't want to live in a country that watches my show, I'll tell you that. 95 00:05:47,221 --> 00:05:49,474 To say Richard corrupted him, 96 00:05:49,557 --> 00:05:53,895 I think absolves Jerry of too much responsibility. 97 00:05:54,854 --> 00:06:00,854 But would Jerry Springer have become the Jerry Springer we knew 98 00:06:01,152 --> 00:06:02,945 without Richard Dominick? 99 00:06:03,821 --> 00:06:05,615 I would say absolutely not. 100 00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:11,788 If Jerry Springer was moneyball, 101 00:06:11,871 --> 00:06:13,289 Richard found the formula. 102 00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:16,376 'Cause they were crushing it. 103 00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:21,130 So, you know, people didn't mess with them, like ever. 104 00:06:21,631 --> 00:06:23,508 They just did what they wanted. 105 00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:25,671 - You're selling your body for money. - That's right. 106 00:06:25,718 --> 00:06:27,595 - Why are you doing that? - I love my job! 107 00:06:27,678 --> 00:06:29,514 - I can't... - And I love the men I meet. 108 00:06:29,597 --> 00:06:31,265 - Shh. - And I love sucking dick! 109 00:06:33,768 --> 00:06:37,688 Every television station executive who aired that show 110 00:06:37,772 --> 00:06:39,899 knew what a piece of shit it was. 111 00:06:39,982 --> 00:06:41,025 They knew it. 112 00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:45,446 But the numbers were so good that they couldn't resist it. 113 00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:49,325 Richard Dominick gets a mean three-year contract. 114 00:06:49,992 --> 00:06:54,205 Jerry gets a $30 million multiple-year extension. 115 00:06:54,831 --> 00:06:57,041 These guys were laughing all the way to the bank. 116 00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:00,795 That's what their show did. 117 00:07:00,878 --> 00:07:04,298 And it may be stupid, and it may be trashy, 118 00:07:04,382 --> 00:07:07,552 and it may be enjoying someone else's misery, 119 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:11,305 but that was the... that was the path they chose. 120 00:07:18,020 --> 00:07:19,740 I don't remember the exact moment 121 00:07:19,814 --> 00:07:21,941 that we became the number-one show, 122 00:07:22,442 --> 00:07:26,904 but I do know that that's when I felt like it was starting to be a task. 123 00:07:26,988 --> 00:07:29,490 Where before, it was fun. 124 00:07:29,574 --> 00:07:32,285 We're having a good time. We're doing great shows. 125 00:07:32,368 --> 00:07:33,995 Everybody's happy. 126 00:07:34,078 --> 00:07:35,872 But now when you become number one, 127 00:07:36,747 --> 00:07:38,124 you got to stay there. 128 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:41,627 Did the ratings issue have a lot to do 129 00:07:41,711 --> 00:07:44,005 with the kind of pressure that we were receiving 130 00:07:44,088 --> 00:07:47,258 that was trickling down from Richard's office? 131 00:07:47,341 --> 00:07:49,093 Um, yeah. 132 00:07:49,177 --> 00:07:50,553 Absolutely. 133 00:07:50,636 --> 00:07:51,679 No doubt. 134 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,394 For the producers, Richard was terrifying. 135 00:07:59,061 --> 00:08:01,898 I mean, he would raise his voice, but he would never… 136 00:08:01,981 --> 00:08:04,567 It was never yelling, it was just stern. 137 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:08,279 "You guys are a disappointment. That's it. I'm gonna make some changes." 138 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:10,907 Really scary. 139 00:08:12,158 --> 00:08:15,536 My job was to take what he wanted and take it to the producers 140 00:08:15,620 --> 00:08:18,122 and make sure that they did what he said. 141 00:08:18,789 --> 00:08:21,918 And they would find a guest or a story, 142 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:24,212 and then they would come to these pitch meetings, 143 00:08:24,295 --> 00:08:27,632 and he would always be kind of snarky. 144 00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:29,842 "What makes you think this is gonna work?" 145 00:08:29,926 --> 00:08:32,470 "It's not gonna work. Why would you bring this to me?" 146 00:08:33,054 --> 00:08:34,096 Oh, man. 147 00:08:36,807 --> 00:08:37,807 Fuck. 148 00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:41,604 Richard would say, "You need to hit these numbers or you're gone." 149 00:08:42,855 --> 00:08:43,940 Very high-pressure. 150 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,025 God, that sucked. 151 00:08:46,108 --> 00:08:47,860 I remember that so well. 152 00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:52,823 It just made it harder, right? 153 00:08:52,907 --> 00:08:55,785 Like, it's hard enough to get huge ratings. 154 00:08:55,868 --> 00:08:59,330 Don't play stupid little games, and do a good job on this. 155 00:08:59,413 --> 00:09:00,498 Yeah. 156 00:09:00,581 --> 00:09:05,253 But now we're also just trying to keep our jobs from week to week. 157 00:09:06,128 --> 00:09:07,808 So what the hell did you do? 158 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:08,880 Come on. 159 00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,342 Come on. I mean, it's The Jerry Springer Show. 160 00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:16,097 If I'm not pregnant, what the hell is this, bitch? 161 00:09:16,180 --> 00:09:17,180 Fuck you, bitch. 162 00:09:17,223 --> 00:09:18,849 - Well, I'm right here. - Well, say... 163 00:09:18,933 --> 00:09:20,518 And I ain't your bitch! 164 00:09:20,601 --> 00:09:22,788 - You threatened me. Bring it on. - Wasn't a threat. 165 00:09:22,812 --> 00:09:25,481 - I will fuck you up, Angela. - You want to fuck me up? 166 00:09:30,194 --> 00:09:32,947 It was really simple. If it did not contain fighting, 167 00:09:33,030 --> 00:09:34,198 it did not rate. 168 00:09:34,282 --> 00:09:36,367 People wanted the fighting. 169 00:09:37,201 --> 00:09:38,494 So that's what we delivered. 170 00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:47,003 We just started pushing the needle ever so slowly towards red, right? 171 00:09:47,086 --> 00:09:50,881 Of like, let's see how far we can push this shit. 172 00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:53,926 Jerry and Richard would do, like, baseball signals. 173 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:56,304 I never knew what they were, really, most of them. 174 00:09:56,387 --> 00:10:00,182 But this one, this one was you need to get tougher, you know, with the guests. 175 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,393 She has been having an affair. 176 00:10:02,476 --> 00:10:05,646 And now let's meet the fellow you've been having an affair with. 177 00:10:05,730 --> 00:10:06,731 Let's bring him out. 178 00:10:16,991 --> 00:10:21,871 These were like big, knock-down, drag-out, whoop-ass fights. 179 00:10:21,954 --> 00:10:23,432 - Fuckin' try it. - Get out of my face. 180 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,207 I mean, teeth were knocked out. 181 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:31,589 Some people lost, literally, chunks of scalp. 182 00:10:31,672 --> 00:10:34,175 Yeah, I got your hair, bitch! 183 00:10:34,258 --> 00:10:36,844 I got your hair. That's right, bitch! 184 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:41,974 Women would pull their nails off. 185 00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:44,018 The fake nail with their real nail. 186 00:10:44,101 --> 00:10:47,563 Like, we had to get them to the hospital to surgically repair. 187 00:10:48,522 --> 00:10:53,194 They were brutal, like, to-the-death fights. 188 00:10:56,364 --> 00:11:00,159 The irony is, I'm the least physically offensive person in the world. 189 00:11:00,242 --> 00:11:03,204 I've never hit anyone ever. 190 00:11:03,287 --> 00:11:05,873 You know? You know, I've never spanked my child. 191 00:11:05,956 --> 00:11:09,960 I've never, ever laid a hand on anybody in anger. 192 00:11:10,044 --> 00:11:11,295 And, um… 193 00:11:12,421 --> 00:11:14,507 And yet the reputation, of course, of the show 194 00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:15,830 is this professional wrestling. 195 00:11:20,471 --> 00:11:22,598 In spite of the success of the show, 196 00:11:22,682 --> 00:11:26,602 there was never a point at which Jerry and Richard were coasting. 197 00:11:26,686 --> 00:11:28,688 They always had to top themselves. 198 00:11:28,771 --> 00:11:33,359 That's really the dilemma of anything that is predicated upon outrage 199 00:11:33,943 --> 00:11:34,819 because you... 200 00:11:34,902 --> 00:11:37,988 You know, the bar keeps getting higher and higher. 201 00:11:38,072 --> 00:11:42,868 And it was also about balancing the pressures coming from the outside. 202 00:11:43,536 --> 00:11:46,080 Not since the game show scandal of the '50s 203 00:11:46,163 --> 00:11:49,709 has a TV show been under attack like The Jerry Springer Show. 204 00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:52,837 There were pressures about violence and fighting. 205 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,298 There was pressures about ambushing and surprising. 206 00:11:57,091 --> 00:12:00,302 And then there were the pressures about whether it was real or fake. 207 00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:12,940 Former Springer guests seem to be coming out of the woodwork, 208 00:12:13,023 --> 00:12:17,486 many making allegations that elements of Springer's show were staged. 209 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:19,655 Listen to the claims of these Springer guests 210 00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:21,365 who recently appeared on the show. 211 00:12:21,449 --> 00:12:25,536 When you took your ring off and put it in her lap, that was not real? 212 00:12:25,619 --> 00:12:28,080 That was not real. That was acting. 213 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:33,753 A lot of people say that it's all fake. The fighting and stuff. Here, look. 214 00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:35,564 - Today's paper. - Yeah, right on the front... 215 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,548 The New York Post, right there. "It's a fake." 216 00:12:37,631 --> 00:12:40,718 I can't think of another show that could make the front page 217 00:12:40,801 --> 00:12:42,094 in the New York Post 218 00:12:42,178 --> 00:12:45,389 unless, you know, Oprah took out a shotgun and killed somebody. 219 00:12:45,473 --> 00:12:47,767 People thought that they were better than us. 220 00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:51,312 And so even if we got the ratings, 221 00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:53,731 they would try to make us feel bad about it. 222 00:12:53,814 --> 00:12:57,568 And I... I think it was easy to pick on us. 223 00:12:57,651 --> 00:13:01,197 How many people here have been on The Jerry Springer Show? 224 00:13:02,031 --> 00:13:06,285 How many of you actually rehearsed your show before you went on? 225 00:13:06,994 --> 00:13:08,954 Wow. 226 00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:11,582 It was like, "Springer's at it again." 227 00:13:11,665 --> 00:13:13,250 "Oh, it's all fake." 228 00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:16,712 "Of course they're getting ratings. It's scripted." 229 00:13:17,213 --> 00:13:18,964 You know, "They made it all up." 230 00:13:19,048 --> 00:13:21,208 It's like, "No, we didn't." Like, we didn't make it up. 231 00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:25,805 My personal directive from Richard and Jerry 232 00:13:25,888 --> 00:13:27,973 was my stories cannot be fake. 233 00:13:28,057 --> 00:13:30,434 They must be real people, real stories. 234 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:33,187 They can't come on and pretend they're fighting. 235 00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:35,022 We don't want to see fake punches. 236 00:13:35,105 --> 00:13:37,566 We want... If someone's actually gonna get to that point, 237 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:38,943 they need to really mean it. 238 00:13:39,026 --> 00:13:41,403 And they were pretty serious about that. 239 00:13:42,738 --> 00:13:47,701 Does anybody have any evidence that Jerry Springer himself 240 00:13:47,785 --> 00:13:49,745 knows about these "fakes"? 241 00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:51,580 No. 242 00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:53,999 His producers look like they ran the show more than he did. 243 00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:55,083 Yeah. 244 00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:59,004 If any producer is telling guests what to say, then that producer has to go. 245 00:13:59,088 --> 00:14:01,608 That's what I said to the company. I want it all to be truthful. 246 00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:04,472 How many times do you want me to say that? I want it all to be truthful. 247 00:14:05,344 --> 00:14:09,139 Suddenly, I needed to vet the hell out of my guests 248 00:14:09,223 --> 00:14:11,725 because if I have a fake show, I'm getting fired. 249 00:14:12,309 --> 00:14:14,353 Oh, that doesn't matter. Okay. 250 00:14:14,436 --> 00:14:16,772 But I was so high-strung at this point. 251 00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:19,733 I was so burnt out that I just wanted 252 00:14:20,609 --> 00:14:24,113 warm bodies on my show and a paycheck. 253 00:14:24,196 --> 00:14:25,196 Okay, bye. 254 00:14:26,407 --> 00:14:28,492 And that's when it all happened. 255 00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:32,079 It was just a typical love triangle. 256 00:14:32,162 --> 00:14:34,790 Two guys, one woman, super easy. 257 00:14:35,624 --> 00:14:37,710 But I should have known better, to be honest, really, 258 00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:40,004 because they were from Boston. 259 00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:43,799 And… Springer guests aren't from Boston. 260 00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:47,803 I mean, these people, they didn't care. They... They thought it was a big joke. 261 00:14:48,637 --> 00:14:51,557 So, of course, one guy took a punch at the other guy, 262 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,477 and clearly, purposely, just swiped right past his chin. 263 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:57,563 And then the other guy went flying backwards 264 00:14:57,646 --> 00:15:00,274 as if he'd actually been hit when he had not been hit. 265 00:15:00,357 --> 00:15:02,359 And security knew, of course. 266 00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:04,403 So they're like, "What the f…?" 267 00:15:04,486 --> 00:15:07,698 You know, and then Richard knew, and it was a disaster. 268 00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:11,702 I was in big trouble. I lost my job. 269 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:18,042 So, victim of circumstance in a lot of ways, in that regard. 270 00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:21,086 I... I felt victimized by it, personally. 271 00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:25,633 Um, and Jerry's reaction to the fake punch, what was that? 272 00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:30,387 I was only told. He didn't tell me, um, to my face. 273 00:15:30,471 --> 00:15:33,557 But, you know, you would probably see his face on camera, like… 274 00:15:34,183 --> 00:15:35,976 He would have probably rolled his eyes. 275 00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:39,313 Probably went like this with his cards, like, "What the hell?" 276 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,399 He would have been very angry. 277 00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:45,152 Jerry! Jerry! 278 00:15:45,235 --> 00:15:47,795 When people were saying, "Jerry, you're faking things, 279 00:15:47,821 --> 00:15:50,491 you're faking things," he was taking it personally, 280 00:15:50,574 --> 00:15:52,660 because he certainly wasn't faking things. 281 00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:57,748 So I... I... I think he defended the show perhaps more than he needed to. 282 00:15:57,831 --> 00:16:00,793 I want the show to be honest because that's the only way it works. 283 00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:02,716 Otherwise, you might as well have a soap opera. 284 00:16:02,753 --> 00:16:04,505 God bless you. 285 00:16:05,089 --> 00:16:06,423 Steve, get him! 286 00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:08,592 At the height of all the controversy, 287 00:16:09,468 --> 00:16:11,929 Jerry's teenage daughter, Katie, 288 00:16:12,012 --> 00:16:15,015 wrote a letter to a newspaper, 289 00:16:16,266 --> 00:16:19,603 which was the first time we had ever heard from her 290 00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:22,606 in... in any form, at any time. 291 00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:28,153 "My name is Katie Springer. I'm Jerry Springer's daughter." 292 00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:32,783 "The city of Chicago seems to be in need of some facts about the man 293 00:16:32,866 --> 00:16:37,037 they have so slanderously dubbed the King of Sleaze." 294 00:16:38,288 --> 00:16:41,041 "First of all, my dad has more education 295 00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:44,837 than many of the so-called journalists in this town." 296 00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:49,717 "Chicago is blessed to have my dad on their team." 297 00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:52,636 "Yes, his show is crazy, 298 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,847 but that doesn't mean he is." 299 00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:58,809 "People shouldn't judge before they listen." 300 00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:01,270 "Katie S. Springer." 301 00:17:03,981 --> 00:17:05,581 I don't know why it was such a big deal. 302 00:17:05,607 --> 00:17:09,737 Like, you just can't fake the... that kind of passion, right? 303 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:11,864 I mean, we didn't get to the height of the ratings 304 00:17:11,947 --> 00:17:15,534 'cause we were such brilliant, scripted, make-believe producers. 305 00:17:15,617 --> 00:17:17,703 She's making you look like out there. 306 00:17:18,328 --> 00:17:22,750 We got there because we could tap into people's emotions 307 00:17:22,833 --> 00:17:28,088 and find these things that are troublesome and triggering, 308 00:17:28,797 --> 00:17:33,177 and then you feed them to the person that's coming to confront them. 309 00:17:34,219 --> 00:17:35,888 And they freak out. 310 00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:39,516 I've been, uh... I've been cheating on you. 311 00:17:42,728 --> 00:17:44,646 It's called "shaping the missile." 312 00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:49,651 And it's the dark side. 313 00:17:50,736 --> 00:17:52,696 You know that baby's yours. 314 00:17:56,116 --> 00:17:58,494 As far as my mother going on that show, 315 00:17:58,994 --> 00:18:02,873 it was shocking, to say the least, that she agreed to do it. 316 00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:06,877 Like, what is going on here? It was so out of character. 317 00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,924 I mean, growing up, I don't remember my mother ever dating. 318 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,554 Maybe once or twice, but nothing like a serious relationship or anything, 319 00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:19,598 um, being that she was a widow. 320 00:18:20,182 --> 00:18:24,770 But a friend of hers introduced her to an AOL chat room. 321 00:18:26,021 --> 00:18:27,731 And that's when she met Ralf. 322 00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:31,610 They started speaking together, and a year later, 323 00:18:31,693 --> 00:18:34,196 he immigrated from Germany to the US, 324 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,241 and then they got married shortly after that. 325 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:43,831 But it wasn't long after that there was a domestic issue. 326 00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:47,167 He had thrown her on the floor, and she'd hit her head. 327 00:18:47,251 --> 00:18:49,753 After that, she left and filed for divorce. 328 00:18:50,921 --> 00:18:53,715 All of a sudden, she was in a big house alone, 329 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,926 and I... I think she just got lonely. 330 00:18:56,009 --> 00:19:00,305 And that's why she went on the show, to... to get him back, basically. 331 00:19:00,806 --> 00:19:04,017 Here she is, the woman that's a thorn in your side. 332 00:19:04,101 --> 00:19:05,686 Nan. 333 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:12,067 My mother believed that Ralf had been deported to Germany, 334 00:19:12,568 --> 00:19:17,865 and that the show was going to pay for his travel back to America, 335 00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:20,909 and then they would reconcile, 336 00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:26,623 and that he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother. 337 00:19:28,417 --> 00:19:30,210 But she was basically lied to, 338 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:32,838 because that never happened. 339 00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:35,924 Nan, what's going on? 340 00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:39,469 Ralf and I are trying to restore our marriage, 341 00:19:39,553 --> 00:19:40,387 and this, uh… 342 00:19:43,348 --> 00:19:45,684 and this trailer trash won't leave us alone. 343 00:19:47,978 --> 00:19:51,231 Nan, Ralf loves me. 344 00:19:51,315 --> 00:19:52,858 Ralf wants to be with me. 345 00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:57,946 And you redheaded bitch from hell, you need to leave us alone. 346 00:19:59,031 --> 00:20:00,199 You need to get a life! 347 00:20:03,619 --> 00:20:08,081 I don't think my mother had any idea what she was walking into. 348 00:20:08,832 --> 00:20:12,294 Why can't you accept that he left you a few months ago to be with me? 349 00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:14,713 - Are you so sure? - Yes, I'm very sure. 350 00:20:14,796 --> 00:20:17,424 You said you talked to him the last couple nights. Anything else? 351 00:20:17,507 --> 00:20:19,885 - I slept with him the last few days. - You slept with him?! 352 00:20:19,968 --> 00:20:21,178 - Really? - You haven't. 353 00:20:21,261 --> 00:20:25,015 Well, you know what? I hope you enjoyed yourself immensely the last two nights 354 00:20:25,098 --> 00:20:27,517 because it's the last time you're ever gonna see him. 355 00:20:27,601 --> 00:20:29,519 The last time! 356 00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:30,603 Oh, yeah? 357 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,649 He wants to be with me. 358 00:20:33,732 --> 00:20:36,568 He's back here to be with me. 359 00:20:37,194 --> 00:20:38,946 Why can't you accept that? 360 00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:44,117 It's pretty obvious that they were there to ambush her. 361 00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:48,580 And the interesting thing is, 362 00:20:49,748 --> 00:20:51,416 the title of the show, 363 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,293 "Secret Mistresses," or whatever, 364 00:20:53,835 --> 00:20:57,089 if she had known that that was the episode title, 365 00:20:57,172 --> 00:21:00,217 she probably would have thought twice, but, you know, she didn't know that. 366 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,636 Here he is, Ralf. 367 00:21:12,771 --> 00:21:14,356 - Hi, Jerry. - Hey, Ralf, how you doing? 368 00:21:14,439 --> 00:21:15,440 Pretty good. 369 00:21:16,108 --> 00:21:17,651 What's... What's going on here? 370 00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:22,572 - Yes, I had sex with my ex-wife yesterday. - Yes? 371 00:21:22,656 --> 00:21:24,616 But the matter of the fact, 372 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,661 a month ago I married Ellie, and I do love Eleanor. 373 00:21:33,834 --> 00:21:35,961 You can't humiliate this woman! 374 00:21:36,044 --> 00:21:38,444 - There's nothing that you can say! - Give us a shot. 375 00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:45,137 The producers wanted them to get physical, make threats, 376 00:21:45,220 --> 00:21:46,722 and she wasn't about to do that. 377 00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,266 He's telling you he doesn't want to be with you. 378 00:21:49,349 --> 00:21:51,810 That's fine. Bye. 379 00:21:51,893 --> 00:21:53,186 All right! 380 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:55,689 Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! 381 00:21:59,901 --> 00:22:01,653 Backstage, she was informed 382 00:22:01,737 --> 00:22:05,365 that if she didn't return to the end of the show, 383 00:22:05,449 --> 00:22:07,951 that they would not provide her 384 00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:10,162 with her return ticket back to Florida. 385 00:22:12,664 --> 00:22:14,333 Certainly during my tenure, 386 00:22:14,416 --> 00:22:16,335 that was a threat that we would tell people 387 00:22:16,418 --> 00:22:18,337 before they ever got on the plane to come. 388 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:20,964 And a lot of people that came on the show couldn't afford 389 00:22:21,048 --> 00:22:23,008 to pay for a plane ticket home. 390 00:22:23,091 --> 00:22:26,386 It was a tactic so that you, as a producer, 391 00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:28,805 had one more opportunity to keep them. 392 00:22:29,806 --> 00:22:33,393 They should feel beholden to you, 393 00:22:33,477 --> 00:22:35,604 that they're gonna let... they're letting you down, 394 00:22:35,687 --> 00:22:37,898 and you've done all of this for them. 395 00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:41,109 And she wasn't having that. 396 00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:42,611 She said, "No way." 397 00:22:43,862 --> 00:22:46,448 "You guys lied to me? I'm done." 398 00:22:54,247 --> 00:22:57,834 Somehow, she found her way to the bus station in Chicago, 399 00:22:57,918 --> 00:23:00,003 walking along the streets by herself, 400 00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:03,715 and didn't have any money, didn't have anywhere to go. 401 00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:07,302 Just... Just her, crying. 402 00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:16,645 Finally, a good Samaritan saw her visibly upset 403 00:23:16,728 --> 00:23:19,689 and bought her a bus ticket to come home. 404 00:23:21,608 --> 00:23:23,151 As strong as she was, 405 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:27,781 I'm sure she felt confused and didn't understand what had happened. 406 00:23:31,493 --> 00:23:32,577 After the show, 407 00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:36,373 no one from The Jerry Springer Show contacted to check on her, 408 00:23:36,456 --> 00:23:39,209 to see where... where she was, where she went. 409 00:23:39,292 --> 00:23:41,711 As far as I know, it never happened. 410 00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:47,134 We weren't problem solvers. 411 00:23:47,843 --> 00:23:50,345 We're gonna give you a chance to come on, 412 00:23:51,054 --> 00:23:52,681 tell your story, 413 00:23:52,764 --> 00:23:54,349 get it all out, 414 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,518 but we're not gonna help you. 415 00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:01,648 After the show was over, we got them out and gone. 416 00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:04,401 It was, "All right, back to the greenroom." 417 00:24:04,484 --> 00:24:07,988 'You can grab your bags. Limo's waiting. Go home." 418 00:24:08,071 --> 00:24:10,615 Then hope it's over. And usually it was. 419 00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:15,871 After the taping of the show, 420 00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:21,376 Mom was determined to, uh, go on with her life without Ralf. 421 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:22,460 She didn't want 422 00:24:23,712 --> 00:24:25,338 any... anything more from him. 423 00:24:26,131 --> 00:24:29,217 And I don't know what happened 424 00:24:29,301 --> 00:24:32,387 in the two or three months after they were on the stage, 425 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:37,642 but, um, somehow, it ended up, they got back together at some point. 426 00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:40,187 And she put money down on a home. 427 00:24:41,021 --> 00:24:46,109 And then he had went back to his old ways, apparently. 428 00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:49,863 Uh, threatened her again, and like she did on the show, 429 00:24:49,946 --> 00:24:51,573 she wasn't gonna take it anymore. 430 00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:53,742 That's fine. Bye. 431 00:25:01,124 --> 00:25:02,459 I'm Lisa Kleinberg. 432 00:25:03,043 --> 00:25:04,127 I'm an attorney, 433 00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:07,756 and I represented Nancy in a domestic violence injunction 434 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,467 against her former husband, Ralf Panitz. 435 00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:15,138 There had been several incidents with Ralf before, 436 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,309 and this time Ralf had actually kicked Nancy out of the house. 437 00:25:19,851 --> 00:25:23,522 Nancy had said to me that her and Ralf had been on The Jerry Springer Show, 438 00:25:24,105 --> 00:25:26,274 and that it was gonna air in two weeks. 439 00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:29,027 But that didn't register with me. 440 00:25:29,611 --> 00:25:32,948 I just focused on the domestic violence that had occurred. 441 00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:38,787 I really felt from her that this was it between her and Ralf. 442 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:40,664 She was done with him. 443 00:25:40,747 --> 00:25:42,499 She just wanted to move on with her life. 444 00:25:42,582 --> 00:25:44,960 She wanted to get back into her house, 445 00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:46,962 and she wanted to get settled. 446 00:25:50,423 --> 00:25:53,760 I remember there was a bit of anxiety before we walked into court. 447 00:25:54,261 --> 00:25:55,554 Nancy was very nervous. 448 00:25:55,637 --> 00:25:56,997 This was really important to Nancy 449 00:25:57,055 --> 00:26:00,600 as that, you know, Nancy was living basically out of her car. 450 00:26:00,684 --> 00:26:02,185 She was completely displaced. 451 00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:05,772 The judge granted her sole ownership of the home 452 00:26:05,855 --> 00:26:08,149 and a restraining order against him. 453 00:26:08,233 --> 00:26:10,068 He wasn't supposed to be in the home. 454 00:26:10,151 --> 00:26:11,736 So it was a relief. 455 00:26:12,946 --> 00:26:14,447 She was ready to move on. 456 00:26:15,657 --> 00:26:18,201 When Ralf walked out of the courtroom, he didn't, like… 457 00:26:18,285 --> 00:26:20,412 He wasn't cursing, he wasn't stomping. 458 00:26:20,495 --> 00:26:23,248 He just kind of seemed resigned to the... to the ruling, 459 00:26:23,331 --> 00:26:28,336 and he kind of walked out fairly… calmly, and there really wasn't an issue. 460 00:26:30,213 --> 00:26:32,591 Right. So you're not… 461 00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:34,634 But then he went to a bar. 462 00:26:35,927 --> 00:26:39,472 And they were playing his episode of The Jerry Springer Show. 463 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:42,142 This is Ralf. He plays the games with all his women. 464 00:26:42,225 --> 00:26:44,686 He takes all the money... He takes all the money he can get... 465 00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:47,272 Nancy, he's never played any games with me. 466 00:26:47,772 --> 00:26:50,609 Ralf watched the entire show, 467 00:26:51,943 --> 00:26:52,861 getting drunk, 468 00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:54,529 and he was getting more agitated. 469 00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:56,406 Do you think, like, he's playing you, 470 00:26:56,489 --> 00:26:58,529 and... and maybe it's time for you to tell him it's… 471 00:26:58,575 --> 00:26:59,492 Oh, sure, he is. 472 00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:04,289 I think that that is the thing that really pushed Ralf, 473 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,585 because at some point, he said to somebody in the bar, 474 00:27:08,668 --> 00:27:09,919 "I'm gonna kill her." 475 00:27:12,255 --> 00:27:15,467 That story was produced by one of my colleagues. 476 00:27:16,176 --> 00:27:18,345 So when the scandal broke, 477 00:27:18,428 --> 00:27:22,849 I'd just come into the office, and it was a different sort of mood. 478 00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:27,270 Everybody was like, "Did you hear?" And I'm like, "No." 479 00:27:28,063 --> 00:27:31,650 And they said, "It's our worst nightmare. The lawyers are on their way." 480 00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:34,319 And I was like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" 481 00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:38,239 I was at work. 482 00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,910 A family member showed up and said 483 00:27:41,993 --> 00:27:43,119 that I needed to… 484 00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:46,623 call and talk to a detective in Florida. 485 00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:51,378 So I left work immediately and went home and called. 486 00:27:55,757 --> 00:27:57,801 They told me what had happened, 487 00:27:58,468 --> 00:28:01,721 that someone had attacked... attacked my mom, 488 00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:04,515 choked her, 489 00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:08,937 pushed her down on the floor, and stomped on her head. 490 00:28:10,897 --> 00:28:12,649 That that was her cause of death. 491 00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:22,992 They said it was one of the worst scenes 492 00:28:23,076 --> 00:28:24,911 that they've ever, ever encountered. 493 00:28:27,247 --> 00:28:28,790 I was pretty... pretty shocked. 494 00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:30,458 I didn't know what to think. 495 00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:34,254 I… I wanted to break something. You know? 496 00:28:35,547 --> 00:28:36,547 I don't know. 497 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:41,553 I didn't know anything about Ralf 498 00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:46,057 or anybody else being a suspect or anything until it came on the news. 499 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,394 Forty-year-old Ralf Panitz and his new wife, 500 00:28:49,477 --> 00:28:52,105 45-year-old Eleanor Panitz, are the two that are wanted 501 00:28:52,188 --> 00:28:54,941 and are now the targets of a worldwide search. 502 00:28:55,483 --> 00:28:57,110 All three people involved 503 00:28:57,193 --> 00:28:59,738 had been on The Jerry Springer Show that day. 504 00:29:04,367 --> 00:29:06,578 Jerry Springer made good copy, 505 00:29:06,661 --> 00:29:10,999 and a murder related to Jerry Springer made even better copy. 506 00:29:11,082 --> 00:29:14,377 So it was irresistible as a story. 507 00:29:16,838 --> 00:29:19,132 It became another circus 508 00:29:19,674 --> 00:29:23,052 of going after Jerry and going after the show. 509 00:29:25,096 --> 00:29:27,474 Mom was definitely lost in the coverage. 510 00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:31,269 I mean, whenever they would report it, 511 00:29:31,352 --> 00:29:33,062 the... the first line would always be, 512 00:29:33,146 --> 00:29:36,775 "Guest on the Springer show brutally murdered." 513 00:29:36,858 --> 00:29:39,319 Instead of his guests, Jerry Springer's in the hot seat. 514 00:29:40,069 --> 00:29:42,572 It was just a constant onslaught. 515 00:29:42,655 --> 00:29:45,241 Like every half hour they would do an update. 516 00:29:46,075 --> 00:29:47,410 I couldn't get away from it. 517 00:29:48,995 --> 00:29:51,223 Do you think the show had anything to do with it, 518 00:29:51,247 --> 00:29:53,249 or do you think it was pure coincidence? 519 00:29:53,333 --> 00:29:56,127 - Well, I can't comment further, you know. - Okay. 520 00:29:56,211 --> 00:29:58,922 People happen to have been on the show, as I understand it, so… 521 00:29:59,005 --> 00:30:01,565 But, you know, I hope they get the killer, that's the main thing. 522 00:30:01,591 --> 00:30:03,676 The rest is just television. It's just, you know… 523 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,529 - Do you remember... - So we'll cooperate fully. 524 00:30:05,553 --> 00:30:07,722 But as I said, I can't comment further, okay? 525 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:09,891 - Do you remember those people at all? - No. 526 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:11,434 - All right. - Okay? 527 00:30:11,518 --> 00:30:12,798 You're mic'ed up, Jerry. 528 00:30:12,852 --> 00:30:15,122 Can I get one cut shot of just you standing there? 529 00:30:15,146 --> 00:30:16,981 Jerry Springer, he just kind of blew it off, 530 00:30:17,065 --> 00:30:18,817 like, "What do I know about it?" 531 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,612 How disrespectful can you be? It's just awful. 532 00:30:24,447 --> 00:30:26,825 She was murdered, and what I'd like to know is, 533 00:30:26,908 --> 00:30:29,327 did The Jerry Springer Show, knowing he was violent, 534 00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:32,247 offer her any form of protection after the show, 535 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:34,207 um, any form of counselling? 536 00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:35,166 And do they care? 537 00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:37,210 They got their pound of flesh. 538 00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:39,676 Police say Ralf and Eleanor Panitz 539 00:30:39,712 --> 00:30:42,423 are wanted for questioning in connection to the murder, 540 00:30:42,507 --> 00:30:45,343 and they have also secured a copy of The Jerry Springer Show 541 00:30:45,426 --> 00:30:47,345 as part of their investigation. 542 00:30:47,428 --> 00:30:48,429 Jerry! 543 00:30:48,513 --> 00:30:51,391 The rumors were we were gonna be subpoenaed, 544 00:30:51,933 --> 00:30:54,978 and that's when Richard called me into a meeting and he said, 545 00:30:55,812 --> 00:31:01,234 "You know, I like that Jamaica show idea, at a swingers' resort." 546 00:31:02,235 --> 00:31:05,196 I'm like, "What do you mean?" Like, you know, "Who's going?" 547 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,739 And he's like, "Everyone." 548 00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:08,950 And I was like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" 549 00:31:09,033 --> 00:31:11,035 And he was like, "No, absolutely." 550 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,540 There's a rumor going out that the company took 551 00:31:15,623 --> 00:31:17,834 the ent... the entire show 552 00:31:18,334 --> 00:31:22,255 and s... sent us to Jamaica to get Jerry out of the country. 553 00:31:23,131 --> 00:31:25,341 That's bullshit, because, you know, 554 00:31:25,425 --> 00:31:30,597 you can't take a whole show and 60 people on a whim. 555 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,308 "Oh, we're gonna go to Jamaica." It's impossible. 556 00:31:33,391 --> 00:31:34,934 I don't want Richard to get mad at me, 557 00:31:35,018 --> 00:31:37,562 but, like, if you were gonna subpoena somebody, 558 00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:39,063 all of them were there. 559 00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,233 That's a great coincidence. 560 00:31:43,484 --> 00:31:44,694 Yeah, perfect. 561 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,656 - Jerry, Jerry. - Oh. 562 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:50,199 - What? What? - We're taping. 563 00:31:50,283 --> 00:31:52,243 I know, I know. We were just talking business. 564 00:31:52,327 --> 00:31:54,245 - All right, I'll see you later. - Bye! 565 00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:55,705 The show, the show. Oh, hi. 566 00:31:55,788 --> 00:31:58,750 Here we are in, uh… Here we are… Where are we? 567 00:31:58,833 --> 00:32:01,502 We are in Hedonism II in Jamaica… 568 00:32:01,586 --> 00:32:04,547 So do you think that was Richard protecting the show? 569 00:32:07,717 --> 00:32:09,093 We didn't get subpoenaed. 570 00:32:10,094 --> 00:32:13,222 You know what I mean? Like, they didn't subpoena anyone. 571 00:32:13,723 --> 00:32:17,143 A man whose former wife was killed after they appeared 572 00:32:17,226 --> 00:32:20,605 on the American television program The Jerry Springer Show 573 00:32:20,688 --> 00:32:23,650 has been arrested by police and charged with her murder. 574 00:32:25,026 --> 00:32:28,529 Eleanor Panitz was initially held as a material witness, 575 00:32:28,613 --> 00:32:29,781 but hasn't been charged. 576 00:32:29,864 --> 00:32:32,744 Does this have anything to do with the Springer show at all? 577 00:32:34,827 --> 00:32:38,122 Are we responsible for months after they leave the show 578 00:32:38,206 --> 00:32:40,708 for everything that happens in their life? 579 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:43,127 We're not. We're not responsible for that. 580 00:32:44,295 --> 00:32:45,975 I don't mean to trivialize this. 581 00:32:46,047 --> 00:32:48,424 It was a very, very sad event. 582 00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:51,970 But it has nothing to do with the show. 583 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,475 If Jerry Springer thought he was involved in that in any way, he would have quit. 584 00:32:58,226 --> 00:33:01,062 At the height of his popularity, he would have quit 585 00:33:01,145 --> 00:33:03,439 if he thought he had anything to do with that. 586 00:33:05,191 --> 00:33:09,404 They did not take any responsibility for their part in any of this. 587 00:33:10,905 --> 00:33:13,616 But Springer's involvement in the case 588 00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:16,369 was brought up several times in court. 589 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:21,249 We were just supposed to go and tell our story. 590 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,460 And then they were gonna bring Nancy out, 591 00:33:24,544 --> 00:33:26,921 and then we were gonna tell her that we were married, 592 00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:28,840 and she needed to leave us alone. 593 00:33:30,049 --> 00:33:31,884 That was never supposed to be 594 00:33:31,968 --> 00:33:35,054 where Nancy spent the night with my husband 595 00:33:35,138 --> 00:33:36,681 and had sex with my husband. 596 00:33:36,764 --> 00:33:38,683 That was never part of the plan at all. 597 00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:46,107 Ralf Panitz, the jury having found you guilty 598 00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:50,319 in count one of the indictment of murder in the second degree, 599 00:33:50,403 --> 00:33:52,613 the court now adjudicates you guilty. 600 00:33:53,865 --> 00:33:56,909 "Circuit Court Judge Nancy Donnellan gave Panitz 601 00:33:56,993 --> 00:33:59,037 the maximum sentence allowed under Florida law 602 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,621 for second-degree murder, 603 00:34:00,705 --> 00:34:03,708 saying a life sentence is the only just sentence." 604 00:34:04,208 --> 00:34:07,003 "The judge had harsh words for the Springer show, 605 00:34:07,086 --> 00:34:10,631 which had fea... featured the warring couple and Eleanor." 606 00:34:11,174 --> 00:34:15,219 "'The trio were manipulated by the show to increase their humiliation.'" 607 00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:18,473 "'It was and is reprehensible, ' the judge said." 608 00:34:18,556 --> 00:34:21,559 "'To Jerry Springer and his producers, I ask you, 609 00:34:21,642 --> 00:34:24,687 are ratings more important than the dignity of human life?'" 610 00:34:24,771 --> 00:34:28,024 "'Shame on you, ' the judge said. 'Shame on you.'" 611 00:34:30,068 --> 00:34:33,112 My mom was a wonderful woman. I mean, she... she was really great. 612 00:34:33,196 --> 00:34:35,323 She raised two young boys by herself. 613 00:34:35,406 --> 00:34:38,826 And she was just a great woman. She was fun to be around. 614 00:34:39,327 --> 00:34:41,704 Um, she just definitely didn't deserve that. 615 00:34:43,372 --> 00:34:46,501 I feel like this whole situation just… 616 00:34:48,544 --> 00:34:51,923 erased the whole middle part of my life. 617 00:34:52,465 --> 00:34:56,844 Like, dealt with it for the last 20 years now. 618 00:34:58,346 --> 00:35:01,849 At this point, I would hope I would have a blossoming career, 619 00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:03,267 and be moving on, 620 00:35:03,351 --> 00:35:08,147 but here I am 24 years later still talking about it, you know. 621 00:35:08,856 --> 00:35:09,899 I just… 622 00:35:09,982 --> 00:35:12,151 It's had a pretty big impact. 623 00:35:12,235 --> 00:35:14,278 Can't... Hard to trust people anymore. 624 00:35:15,238 --> 00:35:16,114 So… 625 00:35:20,451 --> 00:35:23,287 Ultimately, the murder didn't hurt the show. 626 00:35:23,871 --> 00:35:24,997 Nothing hurt the show. 627 00:35:25,581 --> 00:35:27,291 And you redheaded bitch from hell… 628 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,839 But this episode vividly dramatized 629 00:35:32,922 --> 00:35:35,091 how dangerous things had become. 630 00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:38,594 These were real human beings 631 00:35:38,678 --> 00:35:41,180 with real emotional issues. 632 00:35:41,264 --> 00:35:42,890 Here he is, Ralf. 633 00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:47,937 People who were so mentally unstable 634 00:35:48,646 --> 00:35:51,899 that they could commit murder over these issues. 635 00:35:53,192 --> 00:35:55,695 To hold those up as entertainment, 636 00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:57,445 as sport, 637 00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:02,910 as something for audiences to be cheering and jeering over, 638 00:36:03,661 --> 00:36:07,039 that's about as dark as it could possibly get. 639 00:36:15,673 --> 00:36:17,383 I wasn't doing well. 640 00:36:18,301 --> 00:36:24,098 Emotionally, the pressure of that show was... was kicking my ass. 641 00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:27,560 I mean, stuff starts to grate at you, 642 00:36:27,643 --> 00:36:30,605 you know, of things that you ask people to do 643 00:36:30,688 --> 00:36:33,149 in the name of entertainment. 644 00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:35,026 You know? 645 00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:39,322 But at the end of the day, my pressure was to please Richard. 646 00:36:40,823 --> 00:36:41,991 And that was it. 647 00:36:42,074 --> 00:36:44,114 You talk about giving people what they want, 648 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,662 but where... where would you personally, uh, draw the lines? 649 00:36:46,746 --> 00:36:49,457 Oh, I would not. There's no line to draw. 650 00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:53,294 If I could kill someone on television, if I could execute 'em on television, 651 00:36:53,377 --> 00:36:55,338 I would execute them on television. 652 00:36:56,964 --> 00:36:59,634 The only way that I could deal with it was, 653 00:36:59,717 --> 00:37:04,180 I was shit-faced hammered for four days. 654 00:37:08,976 --> 00:37:11,145 Then I'd, you know, sober up and do my show, 655 00:37:11,229 --> 00:37:13,606 and then crawl back into a bottle, 656 00:37:14,523 --> 00:37:16,984 pumping my body full of tequila. 657 00:37:17,693 --> 00:37:20,154 You know, and then the tequila stopped working. 658 00:37:20,738 --> 00:37:22,448 Cocaine's right on the heels of it. 659 00:37:35,086 --> 00:37:36,086 Fuck. 660 00:37:46,847 --> 00:37:50,059 I remember one night, a woman called the show 661 00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:52,561 'cause she wanted to tell her dad 662 00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:58,567 to stop ordering her at the website that she's a hooker on, 663 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,779 'cause they'd send her. Um… 664 00:38:03,447 --> 00:38:05,199 And she'd have to do the job. 665 00:38:06,075 --> 00:38:09,912 This had been going on since she was like 16, right? 666 00:38:10,788 --> 00:38:13,332 Uh, and I'm like, "I'm not gonna get this fucking story." 667 00:38:13,416 --> 00:38:16,002 Like, the dad's not gonna come, right? 668 00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:17,336 And he came. 669 00:38:19,046 --> 00:38:20,798 And I was, like, dumbfounded. 670 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:28,931 We had them under aliases in different hotels, 671 00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:31,017 and they didn't know where each other were. 672 00:38:31,726 --> 00:38:33,811 And I went over to her hotel first, 673 00:38:34,603 --> 00:38:36,147 um, just to see how she was doing. 674 00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:38,816 And, uh, I knocked on the door. 675 00:38:38,899 --> 00:38:42,194 And her dad opened the door in a towel. 676 00:38:43,821 --> 00:38:45,156 And she came to the door. 677 00:38:45,948 --> 00:38:50,161 You could tell that she was… embarrassed. 678 00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:55,249 They'd just got done, you know, having sex. 679 00:38:56,083 --> 00:38:58,544 It was like putting two barrels of a shotgun to my head 680 00:38:58,627 --> 00:39:00,046 and pulling the fucking trigger. 681 00:39:00,129 --> 00:39:01,130 You know? 682 00:39:01,213 --> 00:39:04,717 That's something that I don't think I need to contribute to. 683 00:39:12,892 --> 00:39:14,935 And that was the fucking end for me. 684 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:21,233 You know, I quit the show. 685 00:39:23,110 --> 00:39:25,363 I didn't tell anybody. I didn't even tell Richard. 686 00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:29,617 I literally packed my shit into a truck and I was a no-show, 687 00:39:30,368 --> 00:39:34,080 and I wasn't responding to any calls or anything. 688 00:39:34,580 --> 00:39:37,917 And then I got a call from a number I didn't recognize. 689 00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:42,338 It was Richard, and he said, "You're not coming back, are you?" 690 00:39:42,963 --> 00:39:44,256 I said, "I can't." 691 00:39:46,175 --> 00:39:49,220 And he said, you know, "I understand, and take care of yourself." 692 00:39:50,137 --> 00:39:51,972 And I couldn't stop crying. 693 00:39:53,974 --> 00:39:55,142 I was broken. 694 00:40:09,657 --> 00:40:10,741 Go. Ready to roll. 695 00:40:10,825 --> 00:40:12,952 - Roll for speed. - Yeah, okay, and… 696 00:40:16,705 --> 00:40:18,332 Thank you. Hey, welcome to the show. 697 00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:21,168 You know, over the years, we've done some really crazy shows 698 00:40:21,252 --> 00:40:22,837 with some very wild guests, 699 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,256 and our latest season has been hotter than ever. 700 00:40:25,339 --> 00:40:28,134 In some cases, too hot for TV. 701 00:40:29,969 --> 00:40:34,557 After the murder case, there was a lot of lawyers worried. 702 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,434 "We don't want any nudity." 703 00:40:36,517 --> 00:40:38,686 "We don't want people complaining." 704 00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:41,021 "We don't want things in the press." 705 00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:44,066 They were cracking down, cracking down, cracking down, 706 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:45,484 on things we were doing, 707 00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:50,114 and they were slowly removing the life from the show. 708 00:40:50,197 --> 00:40:52,867 - Ooh! - Oh, I know how you feel. 709 00:40:54,243 --> 00:40:57,788 I think that as time went on, as our culture shifted, 710 00:40:58,372 --> 00:41:00,458 it just didn't seem as important. 711 00:41:00,541 --> 00:41:04,837 It didn't seem as vital to the public conversation 712 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,547 as it was at the beginning. 713 00:41:08,174 --> 00:41:10,384 The show never really recovered 714 00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:12,720 after it lost its initial audience, 715 00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:16,307 and having beat Oprah for weeks in a row, 716 00:41:16,932 --> 00:41:17,975 we dropped off. 717 00:41:18,058 --> 00:41:20,144 The guy in the end, why don't you go to a tanning bed 718 00:41:20,227 --> 00:41:22,021 and get rid of that red neck? 719 00:41:23,522 --> 00:41:25,649 We're proud of our rednecks where we come from. 720 00:41:26,525 --> 00:41:28,360 It became mediocre. 721 00:41:28,986 --> 00:41:30,905 It was the most popular show on television, 722 00:41:31,405 --> 00:41:32,781 and now they're killing it. 723 00:41:32,865 --> 00:41:34,366 And after a while, 724 00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:35,868 they killed me too. 725 00:41:35,951 --> 00:41:37,244 I'm finished. 726 00:41:44,585 --> 00:41:47,004 And then, well after I was gone, 727 00:41:47,505 --> 00:41:51,967 um, they just wanted to squeeze every penny out of it, 728 00:41:52,051 --> 00:41:55,429 and the show just became the same thing every day. 729 00:41:56,096 --> 00:41:58,849 My guests say it's time to leave the past behind them. 730 00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:00,017 They are ready to rumble. 731 00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:01,936 Shivering from the cold and bitterness 732 00:42:02,019 --> 00:42:04,939 that has taken their... over their relationships. 733 00:42:05,022 --> 00:42:08,859 A lonely cross-dresser who wore his dead mother's underwear. 734 00:42:08,943 --> 00:42:11,737 Please meet Heather, Debbie, Ryan. 735 00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:14,907 Jade says she's tired of making room for her mother. 736 00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:17,451 …boyfriend has cheated on her one too many times. 737 00:42:17,535 --> 00:42:19,036 Well, still in the game. 738 00:42:21,455 --> 00:42:24,500 Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! 739 00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:28,045 The pact that Jerry made with Richard Dominick 740 00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:31,799 was a bargain that really caused him to sell his soul. 741 00:42:33,467 --> 00:42:37,429 And I believe that he knew every day of his life 742 00:42:38,055 --> 00:42:41,642 that what he was doing was really beneath him 743 00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:43,978 and beneath his dignity. 744 00:42:44,061 --> 00:42:47,648 I'd like to take this opportunity to frankly apologize 745 00:42:47,731 --> 00:42:49,525 for everything I've ever done in television. 746 00:42:49,608 --> 00:42:51,652 I have ruined the culture. 747 00:42:52,319 --> 00:42:55,197 Yes, he got the success and the riches, 748 00:42:55,281 --> 00:42:58,242 but what did he have to do in order to achieve it? 749 00:42:58,742 --> 00:43:01,287 It's a perversion of the American dream. 750 00:43:01,370 --> 00:43:04,373 I just hope hell isn't that hot. I burn real easy. 751 00:43:04,456 --> 00:43:06,292 I'm very light-complected. 752 00:43:06,375 --> 00:43:08,127 I hope you all pray for me, 753 00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:10,671 because if I get to heaven, you're all going. 754 00:43:10,754 --> 00:43:14,425 Is there an... a TV show you watch you're embarrassed to admit you watch? 755 00:43:14,508 --> 00:43:16,719 The Jerry Springer Show. 756 00:43:17,845 --> 00:43:20,556 It was a low point for television, 757 00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:24,226 and TV Guide has since named The Jerry Springer Show 758 00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:27,646 the worst television show of all time. 759 00:43:28,147 --> 00:43:30,399 All time! The worst! 760 00:43:30,482 --> 00:43:31,817 I will fuck you up, Angela. 761 00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:33,193 You want to fuck me up? 762 00:43:34,403 --> 00:43:36,780 It's also ushered in an era 763 00:43:36,864 --> 00:43:40,743 that we're living in now where anything goes, 764 00:43:40,826 --> 00:43:44,204 and where there are no guardrails or boundaries. 765 00:43:44,288 --> 00:43:46,123 - Don't touch my daughter! - You bitch! 766 00:43:46,206 --> 00:43:47,416 Do it! 767 00:43:47,499 --> 00:43:50,294 I look at some of the stuff that's being done now and I go, 768 00:43:50,377 --> 00:43:52,963 "Eh, we're kind of responsible for this crap." 769 00:43:53,047 --> 00:43:54,632 Guys, stop it! 770 00:43:54,715 --> 00:43:55,841 Kourtney! 771 00:43:55,924 --> 00:43:56,759 What on earth? 772 00:43:56,842 --> 00:43:58,844 Maybe, you know, I am gonna go to hell. 773 00:43:59,637 --> 00:44:02,264 The Jerry Springer Show gave a lot of people permission 774 00:44:02,348 --> 00:44:04,892 to say whatever falls out of your mouth. 775 00:44:04,975 --> 00:44:06,810 You dropped to your knees? 776 00:44:06,894 --> 00:44:07,770 Yes. 777 00:44:07,853 --> 00:44:10,147 Must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees. 778 00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:12,066 …I should be, Omarosa said me. 779 00:44:12,816 --> 00:44:16,362 I mean, it's the ruination of American culture. 780 00:44:16,445 --> 00:44:18,322 Step up, motherfucker. What you got? 781 00:44:21,241 --> 00:44:24,370 I don't think they've ever been held accountable for anything. 782 00:44:25,204 --> 00:44:28,040 I'm sure there have been other people that have been affected, 783 00:44:28,123 --> 00:44:29,643 other guests that we don't know about, 784 00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:34,338 or people just watching the show at home think, "Oh, this is normal." 785 00:44:34,963 --> 00:44:36,048 It's not. 786 00:44:36,548 --> 00:44:38,509 Look at the history of the show. 787 00:44:39,927 --> 00:44:43,263 A guy punches a girl in the face, it gets huge ratings. 788 00:44:44,098 --> 00:44:46,767 We put a girl without clothes on the show, 789 00:44:46,850 --> 00:44:48,769 everybody loses their mind. 790 00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:53,524 And it's like the worst and greatest thing that's ever happened. Right? 791 00:44:53,607 --> 00:44:56,610 All you guys want to talk about is all that shit. 792 00:44:57,736 --> 00:44:58,570 There's a reason, 793 00:44:58,654 --> 00:45:02,199 'cause everybody that's on the other end of that camera on Netflix, 794 00:45:02,282 --> 00:45:03,659 sitting in their living room, 795 00:45:03,742 --> 00:45:07,871 only wants to hear about the Shetland pony with underwear… 796 00:45:09,498 --> 00:45:11,917 …the murder that was or was not our fault, 797 00:45:12,584 --> 00:45:14,545 but, you know, we're the problem. 798 00:45:15,796 --> 00:45:17,965 You know, if none of that happened, 799 00:45:18,048 --> 00:45:20,300 there's no documentary on Netflix. 800 00:45:21,427 --> 00:45:22,261 Full stop. 801 00:45:22,344 --> 00:45:24,304 I think you can call it a wrap right there. 802 00:45:24,388 --> 00:45:25,931 Roll credits. We're done. 65153

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