Original subtitles

- Cats, the quiet royalty of the living room, always judging

You from their thrones, which are often a pile of your clean

Laundry; never chipping in for bills, but always demanding

More canned pink goop even when their bowl is half full;

Their unblinking stares while you're on the toilet; midnight

Meows ; purrs with stinky fish breath,

And the uncanny ability

To look cuter than you in every picture;

Adorable eyes;

Boop-worthy noses; whiskers; tails, and toes...

I unapologetically love cats.

My name is amy hoggart. I'm curious about america's unique

Relationship with its cats.

Tonight, I'm exploring a little known and rather harrowing

Aspect of it.

- We are here in corona, queens, trying to trap some feral cats

For tnr, which is trap-neuter-return.

- The goal is to reduce the outdoor cat population.

- Hi, buddy. It's okay. Come on.

- And while millions of abandoned american cats are just trying

To survive, others live a lavish life of luxury.

She's gorgeous. She's really soft.

- Thank you. - Do you think a lot of people would be jealous

Watching me pet her? - Yeah.

- It's the first time I've ever pet a celebrity.

- By the metric of instagram, nala is the most adored cat

In the world.

- Please welcome nala, the kim k of cats.

- This is her guinness world record holder.

- Oh, my gosh.

- She has two of them.

All the artwork in the house, somebody sent it

To us. Yeah, like, fans or, like, companies, you know?

- Why do you think that she got so famous?

- She has a lot of facial expressions like sometimes she puts

Her tongue out.

- She's really smart, really smart.

Sometimes I feel like she's a...

... A real human, too.

- Nala may seem like a cute distraction on your social feed,

But in fact, she perfectly symbolizes america's obsession with

Cats. The us is home to 94 million felines, driving

A $136 billion dollar pet industry.

When you think about it, what's a bald eagle even doing on

American imagery?

Nala, alone, makes seven figures a year and bought her family

This mansion outside of hollywood.

From pampered influencer kitties to abandoned strays,

America's bond with its cats seems to be a tale full of

Inconsistencies.

- Gandhi said, "a society that does not treat its animals well

Will not treat its people well."

- Thanks, beret guy, but the actual quote is "the greatness of a

Nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its

Animals are treated."

- Oh, sweetie.

Psst-psst-psst-psst-psst-psst

- Are you trying to get a smile out of her? Cause that does

Seem like a long shot.

I'm hoping that if I examine america's conflicting relationship

With its cats, I can discover what it says about the nation as a

Whole, and my secondary quest, figuring out how to get all this

Cat hair off my clothes.

- I actually got used to having fur on my body that sometimes

I go out, I didn't even notice. Really? I'm already a little

Bit covered, but I feel honored cause it's such famous fur.

But I didn't realize that this investigation would lead me to

Uncover a nationwide cat conspiracy, a dirty little secret that

Might be impacting your own furry friend.

So, it just keeps going higher and higher up? It's like an

Espionage movie. it's crazy, isn't it?

We're talking about little, squishy

Cat paws, and there's all these politics

Around it and all this money.

- Which, yeah, you're not going to believe.

- We rescue homeless cats from municipal shelters...

... Provide medical care and adoption.

- This is a no-kill shelter.

All of these abandoned cats are up for adoption.

And even if they don't find a home, they'll live out their

Days here among friends.

- How many cats do you have here at the moment?

- We have about 90.

- Ninety? - Mm-hmm.

I asked the very normal question; can I personally meet each

Of the 90 cats?

What's this guy called?

- That's June.

- And what's this one called?

- Mittens. - Mittens...

What's his name? - Blue.

- This one? - That's mama, tess.

- Mama and tess. - Mm-hmm. That's clancy. - Clancy?

- Yeah. This is auburn.

- Auburn. Her name is phoenix. - Phoenix.

- This is catty. - Catty?

- Oh, and this football player ... - Woah. - ... Is biscuit.

- Biscuit? Looks like you like biscuits, biscuit.

- This is andrew. - Andrew.

Um, why does he have such a, no offense, but boring name?

- It really wasn't boring because his mother, we named after

Queen elizabeth. So her three boys were andrew, charles,

And edward.

- You named a cat after a noted british sex offender?

- Did you let him around the other cats?

- We did.

- Kittens?

- Yeah.

- Oh, wow. How old are they?

- They're about five weeks.

- Five weeks? So little.

I can't believe she'd five of them in her.

- Yeah.

- I get grumpy just about having to carry one.

- We have some that are just they weren't socialized to people

When they were young so they'd rather just be with cat

Friends.

And then there are other cats that are maybe too old, like we

Have a cat that's 19 years old.

- That is old.

- And then we have cats that have medical issues,

Um, yeah, that we have to treat.

So, this is burrito. He just came in about a month ago.

- Hi, burrito.

- He's 14 years old, and he's declawed.

- I don't think I've ever seen a cat without claws before.

They kind of look a bit floppy and misshapen.

- Yeah, they are.

- He's really handsome. He's quite a big boy, isn't he? - Yeah.

- He's kind of pretending that he hasn't seen me. Is that...

Is he kind of a cool cat?

- Oh, he's stoned.

- So, he is a cool cat.

- He's on pain medication for his feet.

- Okay.

- He was declawed on all four paws, so he had 18 amputations.

Some people, you know, just

Want a declawed cat because they're worried about their

Furniture. - Right.

A lot of them don't know exactly what

It is. - Right.

They're not told that it's, you know, an amputation

And told of the consequences.

I can show you what his feet

Look like... - Okay. - ... And we have, we have x-rays.

So this is burrito's

Right rear paw. - Okay. - Okay, so you're seeing remnants

Of bone that was left behind. In a declaw

They amputate p3.

This is p1,

P2,

And p3 should be gone, but on all of

These, there's remnants of p3.

This is like walking with

A pebble in your shoe.

So that's on all of, all of his feet,

All four of them.

And if you can see in here, there's a swelling.

- Oh, yeah.

It looks like your fingerprints on the screen.

- It's probably due to the bones being left behind.

It's a process that happens.

- And it's bad.

- It's... Yeah, it's bad.

- And so, is this common with declawing?

- Well, in 64% of cats

There are issues with declawing.

Most of the

Declawed cats are very difficult to rehome ...

... Because they either they don't use the litter box or ...

... Or they bite.

He was almost euthanized. He was on the kill-list. Um, so

He was left at animal care centers by his owners

For aggression, and aggression is another thing that we see,

Um, with declawed cats.

- So his owners got him declawed and then

After, they noticed, it's presumably, a change in behavior.

He became aggressive. - Right, exactly. - And then, they just

Abandoned him. - Right.

And he lost his claws and almost

Lost his life.

He hasn't shown any signs of aggression

Since he's been on pain meds so that leads me to believe

That he was aggressive because he was in pain.

And now, he's very aggressive.

- Yeah. He's so aggressive this guy.

- I think he's one of the lucky ones.

People just thought because veterinarians

Are doing it that it must be okay

'cause why would they do it?

But it isn't okay.

- I, too, believed that declawing was

A harmless surgery, and I didn't know it at the time, but

This encounter with burrito would lead me to uncover the

Reason for this unique disparity in the way american cats

Are treated.

- You know, I'm actually from thailand. I moved

From thailand in 2009 to study. So, at the time, I really

Didn't know the culture in here at all ... - Okay.

- ... Like declawing cat.

- Do they not do that in thailand? No, they did not do that in

Thailand. - Really. - Yeah.

The first time I ever hear about cat getting declawed ...

- Yeah. - ...Is from dr. Jennifer.

- So, I'm one of nala's vets.

She's a healthy individual so just generally

Just a maintenance. - Okay, and how often

Do you do that? - Uh, every 6 months.

She's purring so loud,

I can't listen to her heart.

- What do you think that means?

- I think she's okay. She knows that I love her.

If you've ever asked the question,

What do "legally blonde," "taco bell,"

And "the hangover" have in common?

Firstly, that's an odd question.

And secondly, the answer is dr. Jennifer conrad.

- So, in order to make money as a veterinarian,

I do one of the

Fun-est things I think you can do as a vet.

I do exams... - Oh, my god. - ...On animals

That are going to be in movies and commercials.

- Yeah.

- Look at the ability. The role is: Be squishy and cute.

- whenever you see an animal on tv or in the movies,

It's likely that jenny is their vet. I'm the least big

Deal that you've ever worked with, aren't I? - I mean, you

Tell me. Well, that is what I think, yes.

Despite her caring

Disposition, jenny is a divisive figure in the vet industry.

To find out why she's not everyone's cup of tea, we sat

Down to have a cup of tea.

- Hi, it's nice to see you. - Thank you.

- Here's a cup of tea. I knew you'd like it ...

- I love a cup of tea... - ... Since you're british.

- And I love some rain. - I brought these pelicans for you.

- Oh, thank you. You've really gone all out. - Yeah.

I like all animals,

But I love cats. I started my career taking care

Of big cats ...

...And this is how I got interested in declawing.

I was taking care of 40 big cats and they were all declawed,

And they were all limping, and I was like, "what is going

On here?"

I thought, "well, I'm their doctor. I got to do something

About this." so I started repairing their paws. - So you can

Do that? - I say "repair". It's salvage. It's to salvage

The paws so that they're more functional and maybe more

Comfortable ... Because their paws are actually mutilated.

- Okay, he is not declawed back here.

Look at, look how pretty

And fat and plump these ones, right?

Can you see the difference?

Can you see these ones are kind of dry and it's actually

Got calluses, and they look, they look kind of sad. - What do

They actually ... Do they clip off the, the last digit? - Uh-hmm.

- Yeah, unfortunately.

- And um, that's how I got into this.

Ab 1857

Is a bill to make it illegal to declaw these cats in california,

And I am absolutely in favor.

- Jenny helped get this legislation

Passed making it illegal in california to declaw wild and

Exotic cats. So, next she shifted her energy to protecting

Domestic cats. - I was taking on being a veterinarian because

I wanted to help animals. I didn't want to betray them

By amputating their toes so that they could be more

Couch-friendly. I saw the pathology that it brought and these

Animals were sometimes walking on their elbows like this

Or, you know, walking on their wrists.

So I started the paw project.

- And what's your end goal? - To ban declawing

Across the united states.

- This mission has consumed

Her life and made her one of the most hated vets in america.

- Um, I've been working for five years to protect cats from

Declawing ... I've spent the last 10 years working on the issue

Of declawing. - How long have you been fighting this?

- Twenty years.

Declawing is more than a manicure. It's an actual amputation

Of the last bone in every one ... In every one of the cat's toes ...

In every one of the cat's toes. It's not taking the nail

Out in some magical way ... Declawing isn't some magical way

That a veterinarian can remove the nail. It is an unnecessary

Procedure ... Amputating a cat's fingers ... Cutting the nerve,

The muscle, the tendons ... It's incredibly inhumane. So I

Urge you to protect the cats and the people in your city,

And support this ban. Thank you. - Thank you. - She assumed

That her fellow vets would be overjoyed by the bans, but instead

They considered her a whistleblower. - I had no idea how

They would ostracize me for it. - Really? - Yeah, and it's

Kitty paws. We're talking about sweet, little, squishy kitty

Paws. - And at vet conferences, she found herself in a scene

Straight out of mean girls. - I sat down at this table and

Everyone

Got up... - oh. - ... And left,

And I was like, "oh, my god."

- Are you 100% sure they didn't just announce that like dessert

Was ready, and that like just to go and get your doughnuts

Over there? - Um, yes, I'm 100% sure. - Okay, I just have to...

I have to ask. - And I knew why they did it, and

I was like, "oh, my god,"

And I felt right then, I was like, you know, they can

All *k themselves because I work for cats.

- Dropping f bombs

In a cat documentary may be shocking, but what's even more

Shocking, declawing isn't prevalent anywhere else except

America.

- People often say to me "that's a thing in america?"

- Yeah. - Unfortunately, my experience, like in canada, was the

Canadians are like "we do something wrong? We better change

It." but the americans are like "we do things wrong."

- Oh, right, right, right.

They've got a t-shirt with a flag in the

Background saying that. - Yeah.

- With her peers and country

Against her, jenny stood as the lone crusader in the fight

For cats.

But people didn't always cut off cats' toes.

To find out how and why we started, I needed to learn more

About the history of domestic cats in america, and I found

The answer from an unexpected source.

- Cats really were spread

Throughout the globe by sailors.

Cats come out the deserts

In the middle east.

They were domesticated in egypt and then, uh, really

They spread throughout the rest of the world on ships.

Egyptians spread them throughout

The mediterranean and into europe.

The vikings then picked them up, spread them through the rest

Of europe,

And then, the americas,

Whaling ships wrote

About passing by these islands, and the local natives

Rowing out and asking if they had cats to trade.

And, this trade of cats went on for centuries.

The primary purpose of a cat on a ship

Was pest control.

Cats actually became

Quite adept at living on the sea. During world war ii, they

Had custom-made hammocks because they helped cats get over

Seasickness. Cats were considered part of the ship's company.

That's a cat uniform. - That's cute. And do you think any

Sailors ever went into navy for the, the cat-time? They're

Just big cat fans and they want to sleep on a hammock with

A cat. - Never came across a sailor who joined the navy just

To be with cats.

They're used for early warning systems because

They have very acute hearing, and they can hear a

High-pitched whine

Of aircraft approaching, yeah, better than a human.

The sailors will watch the cats and when the cats got agitated

And scurried away, they knew that ... To start looking for the

Sky because there's aircraft coming in.

- Obviously, you know

We won the war, so do you think we should give the credit

To the cats? - At least, in part.

- Cats winning wars ...

It's not something I expected

From an animal who sleeps 18 hours a day.

And just like the g.I.S returning from war to settle down to

A quiet life, these cats needed to find new jobs ...

From bodega cats in new york, to barn cats in the midwest, to my

Favorite working cats.

- Cats are very important to a pinball place.

The older the machine, the drier the wood,

The more the mice love it.

- What sinister organization stands to

Gain so much that they'd risk pinball, adorable tiny hammocks,

And winning wars?

So, who's your top nemesis in this fight?

- Well, I've had multiple nemeses, but I think that the

Veterinary medical associations ...

They fight me and what's so infuriating

Is that so often they win. - The american veterinary medical

Association, otherwise known as the avma. Like the nra or

Oil and gas lobby, they're an enormously powerful trade

Organization that you've probably never heard of and their

Influence is shaping the fate of animals across america.

- They protect the bottom line for veterinarians, they're ... They're

Interested in financial success for veterinarians. - In addition

To the nationwide organization, each individual state has

A vma. Among other things, they represent vets in the political

Arena. - I think that there's a financial consideration and

That's why they fight so hard to keep doing it. - How much

Money is there in declawing cats? - Well, some estimations

Are that it's a billion dollars a year business.

- One billion dollars.

How can such a barbaric practice account for so much profit?

- It takes like 11 minutes.

So, it's very quick surgery. It's pure profit for them.

I've had veterinarians tell me that it's their bread-and-

Butter. I've had veterinarians tell me that they declaw

Every cat who walks through their doors because... - So they

Can't walk out after? - Yeah, exactly.

The vmas repeatedly claim

That it's in the cat's best interest for declawing to stay

Legal. - They fight against declaw bans. They use stupid

Information that I can refute in a snap and I can prove

That declawing is bad, but somehow legislators believe the

Veterinary trade associations over me. - So, for the past

20 years, it's basically been a game of cat and mouse.

Jenny would get declawing banned in west hollywood. In

Turn, the vma would get it rolled back statewide. So then

She would find loopholes and get declawing banned in nearly

Every major california city.

- They must hate you. - Oh, yeah.

I think so.

- The avma has fought battle after battle, and

It turns out that they are the ones who started this war.

In 1952, a dubious veterinarian named dr. Grant misener

Wrote a letter to the editor of the avma journal explaining

A new process of his own invention, in which a cat's claws

Could supposedly be easily and safely amputated. But letters

To the editor are published without peer-review and the

Ethical implications of this nefarious procedure were not

Considered. The avma took their support further by producing

A filmed interview with dr. Misener.

... ... Of a chair or on the rug or a new davenport.

- ... Okay? Right back to the terminal phalanx.

It's very important.

- ... No. No, they don't seem to mind at all.

- Thank you, dr. Misener.

- Allow me to translate. He's saying the reason

One should mutilate

Cats' paws is to protect furniture.

Sound crazy to love

An ottoman more than a living animal? Well!

- There's nothing that

Is more frustrating than having a cat that is destroying

Your home, and that you really can't do anything about.

- If a cat is destroying the house, those are good reasons to

Get it declawed. - The goal of this procedure is to prevent

Destruction, uh, of things in the household that can be

Done with cats with claws. - But I think that, uh, declawing

Is, is very beneficial, uh, especially, you know, with today's

Cost of furniture, and I know that I did it to my cats and

Then, it didn't bother me when the three cats chased each other

And slid across the top of my grand piano. - I spill wine

All the time, and it seems like these vets would solve that

By chopping off my fingers. I mean, who are these vets that

Value pianos over very little kittens.

- This is this guy

That I was telling you about, peter weinstein. - Good evening.

My name is dr. Peter weinstein. I am the executive director

Of the southern california veterinary medical association.

- Over the years, various representatives from the vmas have

Spoken out against jenny's cause, none more so than peter

Weinstein. - Peter weinstein is a veterinarian and he ran

An organization called the southern california veterinary

Medical association. - It is strongly opposed to this ordinance

Before your council to ban cat declawing. - He is very vocally

Against us. - For over a decade, peter seemingly chased

Jenny around, showing up to

Vehemently insist that cats don't need their toes. - Opponents

Of this ban have sought to deliver non-scientific, anecdotal,

And emotionally-driven evidence with little basis in fact,

And provide little in the way of verifiable data backed

By published research.

- I think he thinks he's speaking for veterinarians

Against evil me. You know, I mean I'm so evil because

I'm sticking up for the cats

Instead of for the veterinarians who are making money declawing.

- And peter, an adult man with toes, published article after

Article bashing jenny's activism. - He wrote an article about

The, uh, making laws against declawing and how ... What we were

Doing was a terrorist action.

- Yes, he claimed that her

Actions were a literal terrorist attack...

... Mailing bombs ... Terrorism.

Taking over a plane ... Terrorism; jenny participating in

Democracy ... Not terrorism. In my time with jenny, the closest

Thing to aggression that I witnessed was her "*k declawing"

Stickers that she handed out at conferences. Do you think

He doesn't know the meaning of the word "terrorist?" - that's

Something you'd have to ask him. - Okay.

I truly did not

Think there was going to be a bad guy in a documentary

About kittens.

Peter has been backed

Up by vma representatives from all over the country who

Seemed very eager to hack off this little guy's paws.

- She's six weeks old. This is an animal

Who could get declawed.

Most veterinarians are using a guillotine that looks

Like this, and they're just chopping off the bones. - That's

Crazy. - Yeah. It's one of the most painful routinely performed

Surgeries in all veterinary medicine, but there's an article

That says 30% of vets don't give any pain meds. - When they're

Declawing? - Right, none.

They use a guillotine nail clipper

To remove the kitten's toes, which does seem a little bit

Like something jeffrey dahmer would do to his victims.

Just listen to this vet: - "when we do any of our procedures

Now, generally, we use pain medication, which is not something

That has always happened during my 33 years of being a

Veterinarian. But we now realize the pets do have pain."

- They didn't realize cats have pain. How is that not day-

One veterinary school?

- You know cats are really good at hiding pain

And it's actually part of the reason why I think this surgery

Is so common because people will say, "oh, the cat's fine

Sleeping in the back of the cage purring," and you're, like,

That is not what's going on here. It's not a happy purr.

It's a self-soothing purr. It's what they do when they're

Traumatized. - That's wild... I thought purring was only positive.

- There's different types of purr. There's an anxious purr,

There's a self-soothing purr, there's a happy purr. I think

That more and more people are beginning to understand that

We don't really know how complicated cats are.

Cat claws are so important to cats.

The only reason they scratch

On sofas is because they're marking territory, and they

Want to mark territory where you are because they love

You and they want to tell all their cats that this is my

Human. - That's sad if the cats doing it partly to

Say I love you to

The human who responds by getting them partially amputated.

- Exactly... - So we don't understand their love language? - We

Don't understand their love language.

- And if I apply what

I've learned in some of my other relationships, I need

To understand their love language, or my cat's going to

Dump me by a text message on my birthday. Everything cats

Do is trying to tell us something. I'm going to find out

Exactly what they're saying.

- My name is dr. Chris pachel.

I'm a board-certified veterinary behaviorist. - And so can

You understand cat's behavior? - Yes, question mark, question

Mark.

So, each individual animal is going to be slightly

Different. They have completely different communication

Styles. They have different ways of interacting

With people. - Despite each cat's differences,

Dr. Pachel said he can

Teach some common cat communication techniques even to

A seasoned cat-whisperer like me.

That seemed like a no. Should

I be offended or not?... - No. - ... I guess is my question.

- No, and generally speaking,

... Let the offense...

... Let the offense go. - Clearly, I could use

Some cat love language lessons. So where do

I start? - So, if I'm trying to get a read on a cat for the

First time, I'll typically bring myself close enough into

Their space just to make myself relevant. And yet what

Do most people do when they go to say hello to an animal?...

- We... - We want to touch them. - Right.

That's a primate thing.

We're very handsy. - Ohhh... - We're very tactile.

Direct communication,

That frontal-frontal communication that primates are so

Good at is more likely to be perceived as perhaps a bit

Threatening...

... For both cats and for dogs. - That's really hard

For humans, so isn't it we make it all about us.

Humans could avoid many cat scratches if we learn that cats are

Talking to us through subtle movements in their eyes, tails,

Backs, whiskers, ears, and of course, their paws.

And surprisingly,

The most familiar cat communication method isn't really

For them. It's for humans.

Meowing, for example, is most

Likely to be directed towards people...

... As opposed toward

Other cats.

Cats have learned that it's a form of communication

That's more likely to get a response back.

- So while we thought cats were just lazing around

In patches of sunshine,

They were in fact evolving their communication skills with us.

And we've failed to return the favor even to the point

Where we don't know when they're in pain. - Signs of pain

In cats have been largely under-recognized.

So for me, that's then that advocacy role to be able to say,

"cool, I'm going to help give you a voice...

... Because you don't have

One in quite the same way. So, what can I do to help you?"

- You're anti-declawing, I take it?

- Correct, correct, yeah. There's a... As a

Behaviorist, I can't think of a good reason why I

Would say this is the right answer for going forward.

I think they're ... They're often very much misunderstood.

And I think when we start to open our eyes to the information

That they are giving us, we can change what the conversation

Looks like. - Yes, changing the conversation sounds good.

I mean what love language are we expressing to cats when

We cut their toes off? To me,

It seems like a toxic relationship.

Maybe they should be...

... Dumping us by text.

You may suspect cat

Issues are a strictly progressive cause, but that's

Not the case.

New york's recent republican mayoral candidate

Ran on a pro-cat platform, and even brought his cat to the

Polling place. - But as you can see, they couldn't have been

Any more hostile. I show up with gizmo on election day.

They have a heart attack, you can't have a cat in here!

Where does it say in the rules that you can't have a cat,

And then all of a sudden they put up a sign "no pets".

- There is no such sign in curtis's 300-square foot apartment

That he shares with 18 street cats.

I'd love to find an apartment

With such lax animal policy. - So every square inch... - Yeah..

Is dedicated to the cats. - Okay. - Not to the humans. - This

Country is so incredibly divided. Could cats and ending

Declawing be the thing that unites the united states?

We have some of the history of the guardian angels that's

On the wall. - And this is a vigilante group? - Yes, that's

My passion. - Okay. - That's what I created back in

1979 in the bronx.

And, uh, it was total anarchy prevailed. - Are you anti-anarchy

Then? - Total.

- I'm an anarchist. I'm as far left as you... - Okay.

- ... Can get.

The space is called "property is theft," aka p.I.T....

... And it's an anarchist community center that's funded by our

Sale of radical books and records. - Do you know new york

Republican mayoral candidate curtis sliwa? - Yeah, I had the

Immense displeasure of stumbling into a past speech that

I heard him give one time. What I heard him say was just

Pure bigoted, uh, hate speech.

So, these two are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

- Yet, we have something in common, we're cat lovers.

- And so, is cat the, the thing that

Bridges both sides of the political spectrum? yes.

- I mean, they're angel babies. - Okay

- Uh, they embody a lot of the

Independent spirit that I think is beautiful

About creatures. I actually have a tattoo of cuz on my...

- Really? - ... Shoulder, yeah. - Just to show that

You do love cats.

- Yeah.

- You've got 18 cats. Would you take any more? - Absolutely.

- Do you have a limit? - No limit.

- But these two on the same side of the cat fight

So to speak, it's unfortunate that they disagree on the

Political ideology of cats. - Cats are not coercive. - Okay.

- The psychic and emotional dna of the anarchist

Is to be anti-coercion.

- Yeah, like republicans....

... Always ready for battle. Rawrrrr-argh-argh....

- And is ajax a republican or democrat? - Ajax is very aggressive.

He swipes at every cat who's in

Proximity to him. He's like a trumper cat. - Oh? - Yeah.

Okay, so agreed on loving cats, but disagreed

On their party affiliation. What about declawing?

- Declawing is barbaric. Barbaric, right? If you say that

To a person who wants to declaw their cat you say, "what

Would you think if I put your hand down here, put a spike

In it so you couldn't move it, and then pulled each and

Every one of your nails out with a plier?" oh, that's torture.

So, what do you think declawing is? - Okay, not quite accurate,

Beret-guy, but it is still very bad. - To take away a part

Of an animal's nature so your furniture stays ...

Up to snuff or whatever? What I would really

Like to happen is for us to confront the culture that

Makes it possible for an idea to exist and in order

For you to get along with

Something, you have to denature it and deface it. - You walk

Around new york city... We see the homeless, the emotionally-

Disturbed. We don't treat our animals well. It makes sense.

If we started treating our animals well, we'd start treating

The people much better than we do now.

- On her own, jenny tried everything to get people to pay

Attention. Stickers, raunchy t-shirts, even sweet treats.

- We sent them m&ms in these little heart containers.

- Paw project, say no... ... "to declawing,

- Claws on paws - yeah.

- Did you send them a little like glasses with them as well

'cause it's quite hard to read.

- But to move forward, the cats needed

More allies. So when the paw project's mission

Went nationwide, jenny had to deal with something that made

Her a bit uncomfortable: Humans.

- I trust the animals more than I trust people.

I think that animals are honest. I mean,

I'm not saying that I would trust that a lion wouldn't

Want to kill me. I'm saying I know what that relationship

Is, but I've never met one that would stab you in the back.

- No, that's humans. But jenny did manage to find a human

She could tolerate and unsurprisingly, he really loved

Cats. - My day job, I'm an oral surgeon, and there was a lioness

That had a broken tooth, so she was looking for an oral

Surgeon who was foolish enough to, to do the procedure.

And so I volunteered, yeah. - Maybe it's jim's commitment to

Cats, even in the face of danger, that sealed his and jenny's

Friendship. They're all snuggled up.

Aren't they related or it's just ... They just get on? - I guess

Maybe they, maybe they share a distrust in humans or something.

- Hmmm.

- His work has been crucial to the paw project's national

Mission against declawing. - I started working on legislation

Outside of california first, then in new york.

- And with some perseverance,

They found influential cat lovers to support the cause.

- Declawing is cruel. Just plain and simple. It's cruel.

There's no need for it. - This is linda rosenthal.

She's one of new york's most formidable politicians

Held for tackling the opioid crisis,

Child abuse in the catholic church and

Massive corporate corruption. She's a fighter with all

Her claws intact. Do you have a lot of enemies in the city?

- Like all the evil people hate you? - Well, if an evil person

Hates me, that's good. - So you've taken on the catholic

Church and slimy landlords. Did you expect cat declawing

To be as big an issue as these? - I think that...

I didn't realize

There would be such enormous opposition.

- While the rest of us were home playing with our kitties,

The vmas launched a vicious political retaliation in an attempt

To influence lawmakers. - But it was really ... It was quite

Fierce ... - Really? - ... The opposition.

- In what way? - They, they would

Not back down, and they have, they had the lobbyists.

- So, there are cat lobbyists?

There are lobbyists who specialize in

Bills regarding animals.

- I had no idea there were cat politicians,

Let alone cat lobbyists. Though since the avma loves pristine

Sofas, maybe we should call them, "furniture rights activists."

- The biggest obstacle was the misinformation. - The arguments

The opposition presented were less than masterful.

- I'll tell you a story, this happened years ago. I had a

Rancher client ... Sheepman. Good guy, I really liked him.

He came in one day with a three-year-old border collie,

And he's a sheep dog. And he said, "doc, I want you to pull

All his teeth." and I looked at him like you got to have

Two heads, you know. I said I can't do that. And I looked in

The dog's mouth, the dog's mouth were, his teeth were

Perfect. And he got teared up, he said, well, then you're

Gonna have to kill him because he's biting my grandchildren."

I pulled his teeth. - And believe it or not, after hearing that

Heartwarming story about a dog having all of its teeth

Ripped out, oregon kept declawing legal. - I just... I

Don't know; why do we have all of this animal abuse legislation

If we can take our animal to the vet, and then it's not

Abuse anymore. We can take any part of the animal we want.

- In st. Louis, missouri, jenny and the paw project banned

Declawing, but just a few years later, the opposition attempted

To overturn the laws. - There's a legislator there who's

Named justin brown and his father was a declawing veterinarian,

Who owned a veterinary hospital and they still declaw

Like three or four cats a week.

He's trying to override the bans

That we have in st. Louis and st. Louis county with his

Ban on bans. - Can you ban bans? - Yes. - Can you then ban

Bans banning bans? - Well, that would be ideal, but that's

Unfortunately, not where the legislators sit. - As a thank

You for protecting the lucrative practice of declawing,

The vma gave justin brown an award. I can't read the print

On the plaque, but I assume it's a tally of all the cat toes

That have been cut off in his district. The vmas took a

Stand in the surrounding states, including new jersey. - You

Realize that this is just such a barbaric practice that

Really has no place, and if you look at the broader society

Around the world, it is deemed pretty much a barbaric

Practice that's outlawed. It's here in our country that

We're a little behind.

And research continues to tell

Us, we're not seeing more cats that are going to pounds

Because of declawing laws, which is a narrative that is

Spun. We're not seeing more people going to ers because

Of scratching because they didn't declaw their cats. Research

Has shown that, as well, and every time those arguments come

Back, we combat them with facts, and if you can tell me

Where these facts are wrong, maybe I'll be convinced that

Maybe I'm off base but I've yet to have someone convince

Me that the research that has been done, all across the

Globe, by other veterinary societies, quite frankly, tells

Me that we can do this and should do this. - When asked about

The harms of a ban, these amputators performed mental gymnastics

To make it all about themselves.

- I think the harm to veterinarians

Is going to be more of an emotional harm because we are

Always going to think is somebody going to tell on us;

Is a client going to tell on us; is your neighbor going

To tell on you; is that disgruntled front desk staff; is

That disgruntled technician ... - So she's saying the worst

Part of making declawing illegal is that she might get

In trouble for breaking the law? Got it. - It, it was kind of

Amazing to me that a person who goes into animal medicine

Could be so disregarding of an animal's integrity. - I keep

Coming back to the fact that some vets, the people who should

Be protecting cats, are knowingly hurting them. That's like

If you called the fire department and they showed up with

Flamethrowers. Frankly, it's just not what you'd want.

I must be missing something here. Allow me to go back to

Basics for a moment and ask, what exactly is a vet?

A veterinarian

Is a doctor whose patients are animals. Now, I'd assume

That means that they also take the hippocratic oath to

Do no harm, which would preclude any surgeries that mutilate

The patient. But that's the thing. They don't take the

Hippocratic oath. Up until 2010, their oath stated "as a member

Of the veterinary medical profession, I solemnly swear

That I will use my scientific knowledge and skills for

The benefit of society." in fact, the vet industry is economical

In origin, to help protect modes of transportation and

Food. It's only been in recent history that the focus is

Shifted to companion animals. While the oath has been updated

To include the prevention and relief of animal suffering,

Many vets still working today solemnly swore to benefit

Society. - I think veterinarians, at one point, loved animals,

But I don't know that they always maintain that. I think

Vet school, they try and make you grow out of it.

Jenny's treasured childhood friends

Were, more often than not, felines.

- I had 29 cats when I was a kid. I had a mom who

Had 11, and a mom who had nine, and then I had my own cats.

When it came to cats, I was very committed to them.

I wanted to help animals and as I got older

I thought it is a

Veterinarian who has, you know,

Who has the loudest voice for animals.

- I thought it was going to be everyone doing everything

They could to keep animals alive and well and happy,

And it's not. I was surprised when I got into vet school how

Much they tried to make you not see animals as individuals.

I can remember people telling me that cats don't have personalities.

- I feel like that's insane. That's why we talk about grumpy

Cats, we talk about... Well, we always talk about our pets'

Personalities. - Yes, but for lawsuits they want to make

Sure that you realize that they're ...

Your cats aren't individuals.

They're, they're just property.

- Wait, some vets treat cats

As property. Where does that even come from? - In fact, in

The law, animals are considered property. So we can see

Where that comes from. - It's like a furry piece of property.

- It could be like a furry piece of property.

- Yes, according

To almost all state and federal laws, there is no difference

Between a cat and a toaster.

Or a vacuum,

Or whatever this thing is.

- When an animal's sick, veterinarians want

To be paid like they're pediatricians, like we're doctors,

We're pediatricians for animals. But if they do something

That's awful and, like, say, an animal dies, then they want

To be like, "oh, we're nothing more than toaster repairman."

You know, like my liability insurance for what I do is

$288 a year. - Wow. - Yeah. - I pay more to protect my iphone

Or, like, my laptop. - I know. - That is also my property.

Yeah. Well... - So it's like actually not valuable properties...

- yeah.

- I got a lead that took me to texas to meet another

Vet who regularly attempts to repair botched declawing

Jobs. - Um, this might be a little gross but um, these are

All the bone fragments from my surgeries. - Oh, my... A little

Serial-killer-esque. I'm sorry, but...

- Is that the bit of p3 that they've left as the partial...?

- Uh-huh.

- And you basically

Made a broth, really. - Yeah. That's, I would say, around

A hundred surgeries. When I fill it, I can retire.

- That is horrifying.

Dr. Nicole martell-moran studies the link between declawed

Cats and aggressive behavior or inappropriate urination.

- It wasn't obvious to me until I went from cat-and-dog practice

To cat-only practice. I was not seeing cats consistently

All day, every day. I was noticing these things and I thought

I was crazy. so...

I started in maybe 2013 just collecting

X-rays and data and information ... Hundreds and hundreds

Of x-rays, and they just keep going. I'm noticing that these

Cats want to kill me,

More so than other cats. So aggression,

A lot of them seem to be trying to bite me in the exam

Room. You're taking away their claws so now, their first

Line of defense is biting. I'm seeing a lot of cats that

Are coming in for urinating issues and they're not using

The litter box, whether it's chronic pain in their feet

Or they have chronic pain in their back. The actual posturing

Of eliminating is painful. So, I just started making a tally

And then, it eventually turned into a giant data-set of

All of the things that I'm seeing these cats with.

I made this as, as airtight as I possibly could make it.

Once we have the info and I collaborated with the other

Authors on the paper. We wrote it. I wanted to choose the

Venue that would reach the most people. - So, naturally she

Submitted the article to the publication that is read by

The most vets, the journal of the avma. - But they just told

Me that this subject precludes their journal, and they just

Don't... They don't want it. - What did not preclude their

Journal? A non-peer-reviewed letter that was pro-declawing

And recommended burning the toe bones. Nicole's paper was

Eventually published by the journal of feline medicine

And surgery, and became the preeminent document cited in

Legislation battles across the us. - My hope is that it will

At least give someone pause, um ... - P-a-u-s-e? - Uh-hm.

I needed to investigate

The avma side of the story. They've always

Denied that declawing is about profits. Would they ever

Confess? After their initial response email, the avma stopped

Replying to my multiple requests for interviews. So, I came

Up with a plan. Las vegas ... It's a cat.

I learned that the avma was sponsoring a vet conference in las vegas. If they

Wouldn't come to me, I would infiltrate them. I posed as

A nosy, pregnant british woman who was making a documentary

About cats, which ... Actually, yes, I realize is exactly who

I am. But regardless, I did bravely approach the avma

Booth. And so what does it do, the association? - We provide

All kinds of resources for our members: Advocacy ... So any

Issues that they're, you know, are important to veterinary

Field in washington d.C., that type of thing. - And you're

Talking about well-being of vets or of veterinarians,

Or well-being of animals? What, our, our well-being that I was

Referring to there is of our, of our members, of our

Veterinarians and the veterinary team.

- That's really interesting, and

What - can you give me an example of like an issue that you

Guys will support veterinarians with? - I'd rather not.

Can I ask you guys who, what, who you're representing?

And the reason I asked is because there's a lot of interest,

Especially around animal welfare

Um, like we have people at protests like,

You know. I don't want to be the spokesperson...

- Of course. - - yeah.

Holy crap,

This guy seems terrified to talk. I barely mentioned animal

Well-being, and he shut me down.

All right, on to plan b.

I scout the list of conference speakers who were pro-declawing,

And who did I find? Peter ... Weinstein.

Yes, that peter weinstein.

- Hi mom,

- In fact, peter had just received the

Lifetime achievement award from the california vma.

He agreed to meet with me in a hotel room above the conference.

- Hello. Amy. Pleasure to meet you. - Nice to meet you. - Are

We filming on the bed? This is vegas.

- When I invited peter, I told him the truth,

That I was traveling the country talking to people about

Cat-related issues. I did not tell him that I was specifically

Trying to expose the avma's motive for protecting declawing.

I was prepared to interrogate him with the hard-hitting

Questions. Um, so do you have pets? - I do. I have a dog and

A bird. They are both covid pups ... Uh, pets ... Because my wife

Was going crazy, and I said, "well, it's cheaper than prozac

To get two pets." - wow. Wonder if his wife gave him a lifetime

Achievement award for that. - So, you are an animal lover

Then? - I am. - And did... I read that you trained as a vet?

- Correct.

I really very much enjoyed what I did. But I really

Wanted to have a bigger impact on the profession. So I

Got involved with running, uh, the veterinary association

For southern california. So I was the one advocating for all the

Veterinarians

In los angeles and orange county.. - And are you still a small

Animal vet-veterinarian? - Well, it's kind of like herpes.

It's forever once you get the, uh, once you get the degree...

You may want to edit that.

Yeah, sorry, not going to edit

That part where you compare helping animals to an sti.

After a bit of chatting, I steered the conversation to my main

Interest. We've spoken to lots of vets and pet owners and another

Really contentious issue that's come up is declawing.

- Yes. Oh, so in answer to your first question, which is

Going to be, did you ever do a declaw, the answer is yes.

- Okay. - It's very controversial. - What do you...

Do you think declawing should be legal? - I-I'm, I'm not, I'm

Not big on regulation. I think that we can do a lot

More with education than we can with regulation. I think

We have too many laws already. We have to do a much better

Job of educating pet owners as to how to

Live with cats with claws - as in cats? 'cause cats have claws.

- Right.

- As, as to live with cats the way they are...

- ... Before we make them cats that are declawed. Every

Effort from a behavioral

Standpoint, behavior modification standpoint, needs to be

Tried before we go in. Right, because I read that declawing

Is in 85 or 86% from the time done to kittens, when they're

Really young. So it's not necessarily like, oh, lots of

Other routes we've gone down and ... - We had made it part of the

Routine of doing when we did de-sexing procedures ... - Right.

- ... We would do declawing, because they were under anesthesia

- If they're already under anesthesia just like get the

Most out of the drug? Correct. I think one of the other

Reasons that I'm, I'm not for banning it per se is a lot of

People who used to do declawing routinely, either don't

Do it at all or do it so infrequently that it's only in

Very limited circumstances.

- That's like saying, well, barely anyone murders,

So let's not make it illegal.

During my research, I frequently heard the avma claim

Declawing is now less prevalent and only done as a last resort.

I wondered how true this really

Was, and luckily, I could ask someone who had some tricks

Up her sleeve. - I've done a lot of undercover calls,

It's fun and you actually get, get the truth. - So, you are

Crank-calling vets? - I, I do that sometimes... - Really?

-Noblesville veterinary clinic, this is gabby. How can I

Help you? - Hi, there.

Um, I just moved into the area and I'm looking

For a new vet ... I just moved into the area ... I've just moved

Into the area and I'm looking for a new vet for my cat.

- Okay. - So I was wondering if I could ask you a few questions

About your practice. - Sure. - Sure, of course. - Yes. - Okay.

- Do you do declawing? - Do what again? - Declawing.

Cat declawing.

- Yes, we do. - We do. - Yes, as long as we've seen the cat,

Then we can get that scheduled.

Okay, cool. Um, they're very healthy. There's like absolutely

Nothing wrong with them, but I do find their claws quite

Ugly. - I understand. We do do declawing.

Great. In general, just to say, I'm opposed to

Unnecessary mutilation,

But they've been scratching quite a bit this

Weekend, so I'm considering making an exception. - Okay,

Um, you would need to make an appointment for a consultation

With the doctor. I've got this lovely, normal, very healthy cat,

But it goes for my sofa with its claws.

And it is becoming a huge problem for the whole family,

And the sofa. - Uh-hmm. - How many declaws do you do a year

As a practice? Um ... - Roughly? - Let me ... Give me one second,

Okay? - Thank you.

- So you got a couch. So you're wanting to declaw to protect

It, correct? - Yes, my couch was $1,000 ...

- Are you wanting to do just two paws,

So the front paws? Are you wanting to do all the paws ...

- Which is ... - ... So all four paws?

- Which is better for the couch? - Probably, four.

- Four is better for the couch? - Yes.

- So, I could bring it in and have its nails, its claws, and

A bit of bone removed? - Yes. - Brilliant.

And do you do deals like

One claw getting another claw free, or

Three claws gets another ... A fourth free?

Are there any deals? - All four paws being declawed

Will be about $400. Okay, so I'm still making

Savings if I'm protecting my sofa? - Yes, yes, because then

Your kitten won't be able to claw up the sofa, climb

Up it, scratch it, anything like that. - Brilliant, and is it

A painful surgery? - It can be, depending ... - Will the cat be

In any pain? - Sometimes they can be a little tender. - Yes,

It is. They're going to open up that toe and cut clear

Down to the first joint, and take that out. - Right. But do

You guys, you still do it? - Yes, ma'am. - Okay. Occasionally,

The cat will whip, whip the toddler in the face with its

Tail, and I was wondering if you have any operations for

Shortening or even just removing the cat's tail. - My guess

Would be probably not.

Thank you for holding. Um, I'd say about 50 a year.

- Fifty a year ... So a lot ... - Yeah. - ... A lot of, of

Innocent cats. That's perfect. Thank you so much. - Sure.

- Okay, so let's do some maths.

The avma estimates there are between 28,000 and 32,000

Veterinary clinics in the us, and research shows 72%

Of vets still declaw. So if those clinics declaw just 50

Cats annually, that would mean 1.1 million cats are being

Declawed every year, multiply that by the average cost of

Declawing and the associated clinical costs, and it's just

Shy of $1 billion. After all that arithmetic, I think

We've all earned a cute kitten break.

Today, burrito, the declawed cat I met at the cat sanctuary

Goes into surgery to try to repair his paws.

- So, uh, we did some imaging before the surgery

Just so um, uh, I have a better idea of what

I'm going to deal with. Um, you can see that there is a

Soft tissue swelling here. That is basically separating.

Both of his digits. It has to be very uncomfortable.

So you guys can start prepping him.

It took over two hours to try to salvage just two of burrito's

Paws. The original declaw guillotine surgery typically takes

Around 10 minutes. - It was, uh, it was not easy. One leg was

A complete mess. Uh, there was this, uh, growth or

Whatever ... Growth. We're not sure what it is. Um... - You don't

Know what it is? - No, we're not 100% sure what it is. That's

Why we're biopsying it. - And is that like... That's

Just a possibility? Anytime you declaw a cat that could happen

To them? - Yes. - But it's not common but it's

Possible? - Um, it's actually more common than you think.

- Really? - Uh-hm, yeah.

I wanted to dig deeper into the humane

Alternatives to declawing.

Which led me to this very wet cat.

- My name is allie. I'm a cat groomer.

- Who's this? This here ... Zephyr. yeah. - Hi, zephyr

He looks a bit like the oscar-nominated actor, adam driver.

- Yeah, I can see

The similarity. - Yeah. What, what's your take on declawing?

- I think it's awful. I've seen one cat who was declawed. She

Couldn't walk on her paws. She had to walk like this. Really!?

As an alternative, allie clips nails and applies nail caps.

An actual cat mani-pedi and on a celebrity look-alike, this is

Particularly glamorous. And how long will the caps last?

- Four to six weeks.

- Wow... - Yeah. - ... That's longer than I expected. - Yeah.

- I thought you're getting like one nice night out from them.

- No. - No? - No.

- And this cat is now red-carpet ready

To stand next to lady gaga.

So, with humane alternatives like nail clipping and caps,

And even, a scratching post. I needed to know the

Vma's next excuse for declawing.

- This procedure becomes the only alternative

Treatment on immuno-compromised patients. - Okay, but he

Also says - we presently have five cats in our house. All are

Declawed. All of them displayed destructive behavior towards

Beloved antiques in our homes. - So, is it really for the

Sick or is it for the antiques? - I do think that there are

Times when a pet owner might be on a

Blood thinner, or a pet owner might be elderly and have very

Paper-like skin, that has a kitten, and that maybe we need to

Think about it in those situations. - What about elderly people

In other countries? They're kind of getting on fine right with

. - I, I concur.

- As a matter of fact, the cdc doesn't say that one should

Declaw cats, because if a cat is declawed, often the way

They express themselves is through a bite...

... And so that's much more dangerous for someone that's immuno-

Compromised. - What about the fact that even if the claws

Are taken out, usually, they bite more. - We don't have

A scientific study that supports that. That, I would find

Is a peter lie that he's been sharing forever, you know,

Like herpes. I uncovered something absolutely disturbing

At the vet conference, big pharma for cats. Elanco makes

Over $4 billion annually and three of their money makers:

Onsior, zorbium, and nocita,

Drugs used for declawing procedures

- Declawing, is that... - Yeah. - ... Something that you guys

Provide pain management for?

- We do. A lot of practices are promoting declawing.

- What I found most troubling, it seems like they

Know declawing is wrong, but the profits outweigh the cats.

- Um, in some, some areas it's looked at as inhumane. - Right.

- Um, but we have, you know, the, the medications to provide

Support should they choose to do that. - But if it was made

Illegal, like where I'm from, could you guys ... You would just

Would lose that business? - We would. - Okay, that's good. That

Would be so sad for them. Beyond the declawing profit making,

This place gave me this eerie feeling. It felt like a twilight

Zone episode where they've swapped out real animals for

Injured stuffed animals, but everyone acts like it's super

Normal. - So, this is actually a training tool. They can go ahead

And they can intubate our little intubation cat here.

- So it's kind of like what's that game with like the body...

- Operation. - Yeah, it's sort of like operation. - Yeah, we

Actually will have a dog next time where you can actually try to

Place a urinary catheter in the dog. - How fun. - Yeah.

- This guy buys and sells animal penis bones.

Penis bone - penis bone.

- Do you sell them? - We do. - Do you vet the people who

Want them? - No. - Even more disturbing than animal penis bones,

They sold little vials of cat paw bones for $44.99.

Although vets vehemently deny that this is about profits,

It always seems to come back to that. How do they justify it?

- I mean we're a health care provider. We're also a

Service industry.

In fact, we're probably more of a service industry than

A health care provider. We, as veterinarians, would all love

To see pets show up at our door with a credit card without

Their owner. Because that would make it much easier. All

We have to do is take care of the pet. But now we have

To take care of two things. We got to take care of the crazy...

Excuse me. We have to take care of the cat lady ... - Yeah.

- ... And we have to take care of the cat. - You said crazy cat

Lady. - I didn't.

- And perhaps not surprisingly, crazy cat lady

Has become a political weapon to dismiss jenny.

- I love cats,

But I'm not a cat lady. People want to dismiss,

Especially women, who love cats. - So you've been called a

Terrorist, and as far as I can tell that hasn't fazed you,

But you bristle being called a cat lady.

- Exactly. I just don't

Want to be marginalized, yet again, by people labeling me

As not having all my marbles. - Do you think your work could

Be easier if you're a man? - Yeah, absolutely. I think white

Male privilege is so helpful in convincing people

That you're right. - You can't be a crazy cat man. You can be

Earnest hemingway or mark twain or, at a stretch, macklemore,

And yet, you can also be curtis, toughest male cat lady you

Could imagine. - What is your favorite thing about being

A tough guy cat lady. - I'm a 68-year-old guy who continues

To run around in a red beret and a red sateen jacket. People

Say, when are you gonna grow up? I said, "I'm never gonna

Grow up." - I'm sorry just to check, that's one of your favorite

Things about being a tough guy cat lady? Yeah ... Is that I go

Against the grain. - Yeah. - Nobody thinks

A tough guy has cats ... And instead they feel

I went soft ... I went weak ...

... Instead of being turgid, I'm now flaccid. Maybe I might

As well become a eunuch.

Curtis, you've lost your manhood. Are you out of your mind?

Are you crazy? Are you meshuga?' are you

Ubatz'? - But they're the ones

Who keep bringing up penises whenever

You're talking about cats, so maybe they're the weird ones.

- Yes, exactly. - Sure, people who love cats can be a bit

Eccentric, but what about people who are

Horrible to cats? Shouldn't we be more worried about them?

- Well, I've passed quite a number of laws in the state.

To protect animals. - Uh-huh. - A lot of people said

"well, why are you working on animal

Issues?", you know, "work on people issues."

And now, it's commonly

Understood that abusers go for animals, and it is a strong

Predictor of further abuse. - Folks on the other side are saying

"we got all these problems and you're worried about cats."

I can do more than one thing at one time. If we see something

That is an inequitable situation, I think we are compelled,

As public servants, to try and right that wrong. - I checked

Back in with burrito, who's finally recovering from his

Paw salvage procedure. - I mean, he was on a lot of pain

Medication initially. He was on three different types of pain

Medication and then we just gradually decreased it.

He's a good boy. Do you know about the cancer? - Despite his

Recovery, the mass in burrito's back paw proved to be cancer

- Declawing may have caused the tumor. - Their theory is this,

Declawing led to the chronic inflammation; chronic inflammation

Led to the tumor, and the tumor is cancerous. Burrito wouldn't

Be the first time they've seen this. - There could be more

So we're going to look into it. - There are so many good

Vets trying to right the wrongs, and I think they're deeply

Impacted by the way animals are being treated. So you were

Saying before that you used to declaw? - Uh-huh.

- Can you tell me about

That experience? - Um, so in veterinary school

We received, definitely not an entire lecture, but maybe

A portion, small portion, of one-hour lecture on how to do

It. I had one that was just so painful, and I felt ... Like I

Cried so hard. I felt so bad for the cat that I did this to the

Cat and the staff had to see it, and I felt so bad. And

That was the last one I ever did. - Really? - Yeah, I felt so

Bad. I felt so terrible. I talked to the owner ahead

Of time. I tried to talk her out of it, and she just got

So mad at me. She said, "well, are you gonna do it or not?"

I was like, okay, I guess I have to do it because she asked me

To do it and ... Um, like the cat woke up and she was

Bleeding and it was painful,

And the staff had to see it and we were all

Just so upset. I mean clearly, it has been 10 years,

And I still feel bad. But that was ...

I remember the next day

I called jenny and I said, "that's it. We're done."

- It sounds like a really hard job.

For me, this raises the question:

Does knowingly causing an animal's suffering impact a vet's

Mental health? It must be incredibly emotionally draining,

And according to one veterinary study, 19% of respondents

Had seriously considered suicide. And if the vmas exist

To advocate for vets, why have they chosen to side with

Vets like peter rather than vets like nicole? - It's such

A unique profession because a lot of us kill our patients.

- By accident or you think...? - Not in food production. No, it's not

By accident. Chickens, cows, whatever else people eat, there's

A veterinarian who's part of that, and their responsibility

Is only until the animal's old enough to be killed.

- It's all starting to add up now. The whole profession treats

Agricultural animals and companion animals the same. Just

Look at the avma booth at the vet conference. It's a cattle

Farm. They fear that if the government starts to regulate

The treatment of cats, it could open the door for how the

Government regulates the treatment of all animals. Just

Listen to this. - We feel that legislating medical procedures

Is a very slippery slope and we would like the politicians

To stay out of the veterinary medical, uh, situation. - So

For the avma, this isn't just a fight to protect the $1 billion

Declawing industry. It's also to protect the $1.4

Trillion meat agriculture industry. If jenny is david

And declawing is goliath, then the meat industry is godzilla

Making it a pretty tough battle, and also a great idea for

A summer blockbuster.

So it makes sense that the avma deems

Declawing within the standard of care, alongside debarking,

Ear cropping, and tail docking, and even something called

Ventilation shutdown plus. Brace yourself for this one, it's

When they trap farm animals in an enclosure, turn up the

Heat to lethal temperatures, cut off oxygen, and let them

All die of suffocation and heat stroke. When I asked peter

What he thought the most unusual thing about america's

Relationship with animals is, his answer wasn't any of these

Horrific practices. No. He thought the weird thing is our

Relationships with the animals. - I think many pet owners

In the united states have substituted pets for children.

We have, um, anthropomorphized and we call them, you

You know, uh, fur children; allows pet owners to have something

That they can go home to at night... - Right.

- ... And talk to that doesn't talk back,

- Yeah. - ... And that you don't have to pay for college

Education for. - A lot of times people will say to me. "oh,

You're anthropomorphizing." meaning that you're giving them

Human qualities and I'm like, why do you think that only

Humans have the ability to feel happy or sad or... - Right,

Yeah. - ... Or feel pain. I think they want you to see animals

As a commodity and not as members of the family. - So why

Is there such discrepancy in the way cats are treated?

I think it's because on the one side, people consider them

Property. - I have never had a cat myself that I did not declaw.

- On the other side, we have people who love them like family.

- Yeah, she's my baby. I love her. Look at her.

- It's not property. It's like part of your family.

They're your friend. You don't think of

Your family or your friend as property.

- I was looking for very social cat

That would give me so much love, and I got him.

- She like will actually give me kisses.

- Can you love property?

I, I had a cat that used to sharpen its claws on

My jazz records, and I didn't care...

- You could always switch back to cassettes.

- Nah. - Mp3s? - Not optimal.

- We are like connected to this kind of animals, you know,

Like we, we lived with

Them since the beginning.

- They are emotional creatures and they ...

... They have a lot of the same emotions we do. They just

May express them differently. - They're affectionate. They're

Funny. - They have this magical power.

It just makes

People happy and infatuated. - A cat is not something

That you own and manipulate, but it's something that

You live alongside with consensus. - You should always look

At what's in the best interest of our pets just like if

They were our children, and, and that's how I look at it.

Looking in the best interest of our cats because they're

Family. - I look at them as if they're humans, I don't

Distinguish. And, in fact, both her and I, we communicate when

I'm sitting on the porcelain palace. - Okay. - When I do

My best thinking ...

- Yeah. - ... I communicate with tuna. - What do you chat about?

- Everything,

And she's the only one who will actually listen to me.

- Perhaps, if we all stopped considering

That we own animals and

Instead consider them family, we'd see less declawing, less

Abandonment, less animal penis bones. But right now, the

Cats-as-property folk like peter and the avma are in power,

And if that's going to change, they need to be exposed.

So, I tried one last time to get a confession to the avma's

Real motive. Is a vet ever in a position where they, they

Can offer procedures that are more profitable for them?

- I would say that there are times when we, um, we would choose

Some, some profit, profit-based procedures or, or uh, or tests

Or whatever the case may be, that, um, maybe are, are

A little bit above what's, you know, what we should be

Doing? You can see that I'm dancing at the moment. - Yeah.

Is it profitable for vets to declaw?

- Is it profitable? - Yeah.

- If they're good business people, yes.

- So is that an incentive to keeping it legal for some

Veterinarians? - Maybe. I would suggest that the declawing is

More of the upselling. - Holy crap! This is what I've

Been after. Our boy, peter, finally said the quiet part out

Loud, admitting declawing is an unnecessary upsell! But

He wasn't off the hook yet. Okay, I think it's really, really

Bad, and I didn't ... Declawing ... I didn't know it was a thing until

I came here. - Mm-hmm. - I've met cats that have been declawed.

I've seen the swelling matter being removed 14 years after

The operation and they've been crippled ever since. They've

Been surrendered to kill-shelters because the owners can't

Look after them because they are peeing inappropriately

Now and aggressive and biting, which is worse for elderly

People. These are laws to protect animals, and that just

Seems like a really fabulous law just to push through.

- Well, I love your passion. - Thank you.

- And I love your emotions. - Yeah.

- This is a topic that I've been involved with for

A long time. And I, and I was... I did a lot of declaws when

I was in practice, mea culpa. You know, I'm guilty.

- Yeah. - I advocated and testified

Against, against banning declawing. - Yeah.

- But I think I have come around, and for those of you who

Testified on the other side from me, yes, you influenced

Me. Um, and now if I were in practice, I would do everything

I could not to do a declaw. - Okay, having said all this,

Do you still think declawing should be legal in america?

- I think that you're correct, is that we have to get to that as

An end point. - Yeah. - But I think in, at least, in the united

States, it takes a long time to make these types of dramatic

Changes. And I think that's a lot of times in these arguments,

Whether it's a declawing, whether it's abortion, whether it's

Gun control, there's a, there's a progress, or in your case,

A pro-gress ... - Thank you. - Towards change here

It's just slower. - It seems like the animals would just

Suffer while humans drag their feet.

- Um, I can't argue with that. - Listen, I can't say how

Sincere peter is in these statements, but we captured jenny's

Nemesis confessing that declawing is about profits and

Admitting it should be illegal, validating 20 years of her

Work with the paw project, and it's on film forever ... Like herpes

And big changes are happening to one of the heroes

Of our story. - Come on, burrito. Come buddy. It's your big

Day! The good news with burrito is that he has been adopted

And he's going to his brand new forever home today.

You're a lucky boy. You got a good home. We're going to miss you.

- So declawing, compared to other issues, just seems really

Black and white. There's a right and a wrong, and yet you've

Been working at it for 20 years and it's still, it's still

Legal. What does that say about america? - Well, I hope it

Says something about america and not me. For a long time,

I was doing it by myself with jim, and now more and more

Veterinarians are joining us.

- Against all odds, jenny's big breakthrough finally

Came in new york. - Yes, we were first in the nation

To ban the declawing of cats. - Ayes 92, noes 27. - The bill

Has passed. - Want to introduce some very special guests in

Our chambers this evening. Dr. Jennifer conrad, jim jensvold,

Dr. Susan whittred. They take very good care of our furry friends

- It took about 5 years to pass this bill into law.

- It was a struggle. It was hard to pass, and so when it did

Pass, there's a picture a photographer took of me.

And jenny and jim were up in the, uh, balcony and the pictures

Of my hands raised waving at them with this triumphant smile.

- And when you raised your hands, was this like a declawing

Sign? That, "look, all my fingers are intact, as well," or is

That just... - I raised my hands like in triumph. Today is the

Catacular day in the state of new york. It's time we take

This movement to every state in the nation. - And this joyful

Victory came from bipartisan cat lovers. Jenny and the paw

Project have gained traction in states like maryland and

Cities across america. - She started this movement like, all by

Herself. She was my hero. - Sometimes you have to wave your

Arms screaming, jumping up and down for anyone to give you

That attention. - It's just, you know, a little humanity.

People just need to summon that up.

- Hi. Are you deborah? - I am. - I'm amy. I've got a cat delivery.

- It's often said that societies are looked at by how it can treat

The least of us, right, as well as how much we treat the

Best of us. Yeah. We're the greatest country in the world,

But we're an imperfect nation, and because of that, we have

To understand that we can and should do better. - Do you

Think she'll ever give up? No, not until the last veterinarian

In the united states agrees to stop declawing. - I don't know

When the tipping point will be, when it will change,

But I believe that as long as we keep adamantly at it,

It has to change. Bye, burrito. I'm going to

Leave you in your new home.

- And as the paw project gains more support, who knows, maybe

The cats will now have more time for their careers. Do you

Ever want to have like a celebrity cat like make it into a bit of an influencer? - I, I never thought about it... - But

Suggesting it .