All language subtitles for FBI True Season - 5 episode 2

- Suddenly,
you went from this cattle issue

to you have somebody
in overpass with a scoped,

high-powered rifle pointing
it at a federal agent.

They think the federal
government doesn't have

the right to own land.

- They just beat
the U.S. government.

- We're not going to
fall into the same trap

that happened in Bunkerville.

- The Hammonds were
convicted of lighting

a fire that spread
to federal land

in protest over
cattle grazing rights.

- The Hammonds were supposed
to report to prison.

The Bundys, they were
going to go protect them.

- We need you to
bring your arms

and we need you to
come to the Malheur

National Wildlife Refuge.

- We didn't exactly know
who all is there,

how many are there,
who do they represent?

- FBI, you can bring
your freaking guns

and put a freaking
bullet right here.

Put a bullet right here.

I'll take that first bullet,
you disgusting, filthy--

- The folks at the refuge said
if we can kidnap an FBI agent,

we can end this on our terms.

- They put armed
men in a 100-foot

fire tower with sniper rifles.

They took fire practice,
practiced with their firearms.

- Who's going to show up?

And do tensions boil
over into one bad moment?

- All you military
that's been fighting

for your country overseas,

you can fight for your
country right here in America.

Get here!
Get some!

- Block that front.
Guard the front.

- In the FBI, we make
a lot of headlines.

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Drug busts,

mob stings,

terrorist takedowns.

- Get down! Get down!

- We understand why people
want to tell stories about us.

- Mark it.

- Freeze!
- FBI.

- FBI!
- Action!

- But they don't know
the half of it.

What really goes down,

we save that for each other

when we're talking
agent-to-agent.

# #

This is "FBI True."

# #

- Saturday morning,
good college football weekend.

I was done with my
coffee and everything.

I was ready to start watching
football because out there,

it starts at 9:00 a.m.

The ASAC calls me and
gives me a brief rundown.

Says the people that were
in Burns, some of them

went to take over
a federal refuge.

So go ahead and pack your bag
and start heading that way.

Three hours later,
I'm pulling into Bend.

- But while this is
going on, while we're

mustering our resources,
the Bundys are doing the same.

We have determined
who the leadership is.

That is Ammon Bundy,
Ryan Bundy,

Ryan Payne, and LaVoy Finicum.

- We need you to
bring your arms

and we need you to
come to the Malheur

National Wildlife Refuge.

- If you wait for legal
means, you will wait forever.

- They're not allowed to own
on the land that it's on.

They're not allowed to
have those buildings there.

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That administrative agency
shouldn't even exist.

They're unconstitutional.

- I think that you're
sitting on seeing

the cusp of a major, a major
dynamic shift in this country.

That's why you're seeing the
uptick in the saber-rattling

from the feds, because they
do not want to let go of this.

They do not intend
on losing here.

And we do not intend
giving it back to them.

# #

- They set up at the
refuge with the intent

of holding it and expecting
that at some time,

someone may try to
dislodge them from there.

- And they are
looking at a moment,

for a lot of these
groups, where they can say,

this is the federal government
we're fighting.

I mean, they're looking,
they're spoiling for that.

- We didn't exactly know who
all is there,

how many are there,
who do they represent?

How many are ardent
Bundy supporters?

How many are there for
their own personal cause?

We're doing the best we can
to generate this intelligence.

Our three goals were,
one, resolve the standoff

peacefully,
return it to the control

of the federal government,
and to hold those accountable

who had taken these actions.

All of those were informed
by what happened before,

but we had to hold
those people accountable

because we couldn't have
them walking around saying,

nobody touched me.

- Again--
- We did this and yeah.

- Yeah.

- When that social
media call goes out

to the various militias,

you have
five major militias show up.

And they formed a group
called the Pacific

Patriot Network, PPN.

- And these aren't
just, you know,

five and six guys that go out
and shoot guns on the weekends.

- Mm-hmm.
- Right?

These are organized.
They have regular trainings.

They're paramilitary.

- I don't know any other way
to describe what happened

to the Hammond
family other than I

don't understand
what country we live in

when it comes to that.

- They were playing soldier.

That's why when you see them
walking around town, again,

with their bulletproof
vests, their long arms,

their sidearms,
their extra magazines,

that is intended
to intimidate--

- Absolutely.
- --and to coerce

and to influence.

- This is what
U.S. military generally

are going to be trained
in some type of format

with this type of weapon.

- I remember one of
my first mornings,

at the Best Western in Burns,
going down to breakfast.

Half the hotel was
militia and half the hotel

was FBI or Oregon State
Police,

all descending
upon the breakfast room.

And it was surreal because you
would walk down the hallways

and you'd see somebody and they
may be all Carhartted up,

long beard, and, you know,
both giving each other

the north-south,
kind of figuring

out which side you were on.

- They would follow us.

You would leave the command
post, head back to the hotel,

and a car would follow you.

There were so many guns in
town that the bosses put out

the edict that nobody that
is not carrying a weapon

can be out by themselves.

So they have to be
escorted by agents.

- Burns became sort of a
civil war, a hearts-and-minds

campaign for that populace.

- And it divided
a number of families.

- As it still does.

- Yeah.
- Yeah, and it still does.

- One evening we're at the
gym, the high school gym,

in walks Ammon Bundy.

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His bodyguard.

Several other members.

And they went to the
four corners of the gym.

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And they, of course,
left a group outside

of armed escorts as well.

And it's a whole
community meeting,

and it's, again, the community
there are telling the Bundys

and militia members, go home.

You know, we don't
want you here anymore.

- People are happy
you've raised issues,

but they say it's
time for you to leave,

what do you say to that?

- Well, I just
barely met with three

ranchers that asked me not to.

And-- and that seems
to be, at least

flowing through these doors,
has been the message.

- We often would get comments,
why don't you arrest them here?

People would be pointing,
arrest them now.

Well, this tension would
rise almost daily when we'd

see Ammon Bundy in
one part of town,

or we'd his brother,
Ryan, somewhere else.

And we knew we
could arrest them.

But if we did that and left a--
you know, a core of leadership

back on the refuge,
that would just

be an escalation point again.

We went through that
calculus regularly.

- Daily.

If this, then this.
- Right.

- If we do this,
does it raise or lower

the temperature on the refuge?

- You take him now,
he's got his

rallying cry for those
left back at the refuge.

- Exactly.
- So we didn't.

- So what are some
of the fears we're

dealing with at this point?

- When they first
got there, we knew

they put armed
men in a 100-foot

fire tower with sniper rifles.

You can take a shot from
anywhere in a 360-degree

circle and be effective.

They put heavy equipment on
one road coming in and out.

On the back side,
they put highway barriers

in a sawtooth formation to give
them the opportunity to shoot

in multiple directions.

They had armed
patrols that were

going around the perimeter.

# #

They took fire practice and
practiced with their firearms.

They were set up
in a defensive perimeter,

in a defensive situation
in order to, in their words,

repel any attack
that might come.

# #

- We don't know who's
up on those towers,

but we knew their capabilities.

We knew that weapons they had.

We knew that standoff ranges.

# #

One thing, too, that we
heard often out there,

you would hear the
phrase, "No free Wacos,"

meaning that they saw that
events at Waco had transpired

and the horrific loss of
life, but this time around,

they were going to exact
as good as they got.

And so it was very
much of a warning

of what they intended to do
to the federal government

and the FBI.

As the days went on,
we wanted to wait them out

with no loss of life, but
you realize the more and more

folks, especially from the
other side, that could come in,

wild cards.
- Right.

- And something-- the
longer we went on in trying

to wait them out,
it also introduced who's going

to show up and do tensions
boil over into one bad moment?

And then you've got
something entirely different.

- And it was a very deliberate
decision on our part

to use Sheriff Ward

as the intermediary
with the militia,

understanding them as we do,

where they recognize
the sheriff

is the only recognized
law enforcement officer.

Every time he went out
to meet with the Bundys,

he would deliver the message.

And it's coming from
someone that they

proclaim all the time
as the recognized

law enforcement officer.

- And it would send
that powerful message

that this isn't Bundy versus
the federal government.

This is Bundy against
the people of Burns,

against elected law
enforcement, the sheriffs,

state and local law enforcement
throughout the state.

- And they knew we were doing
this, and it was bugging them.

And they were regularly making
requests through negotiators

and others to speak with me,
to speak with Eric,

to speak with
someone in charge.

Well,
we refused those requests.

We knew they were looking
for a federal presence

to push up against.

- FBI, you can bring
your freaking guns

and put a freaking
bullet right here.

Put a bullet right here.

I'll take that first
bullet, you disgusting,

filthy, freaking-- oh!

- And that was something
we weren't going to give.

# #

- So they took the refuge over.

They had guards set up.

# #

They had a sniper in the tower.

# #

They had roadblocks set up.

But they were also
encouraging people

from Burns to come visit them.

Come see.

And bring me food, you know?

Yeah.

- There was some kind of like--
- Oh, they--

- They were eating like kings.

- Barbecued pork, man.

And chicken enchiladas.

- Yes!

- They were sending out
requests for food and underwear

and you name it.

- So the building out there
is not-- it's not a shed.

- No.
- They have living quarters.

They have washers and dryers,
showers, full kitchens.

- These buildings
are very symbolic.

They're a bunch
of rock buildings

35 miles away from nowhere,
but they're symbolic.

We're holding this.

It's been the federal
government's fortress,

their-- their castle.

And we're holding it.

We shall not give
it up to them, ever.

- And, you know, the
governor is telling me,

we've got to do something.

# #

The town's nerves are fraying.

- They're not from here.

We don't want them here.
We want them to go home.

all: Go home! Go home!

- Militia, go home!

- There's no end
in sight to this occupation.

- How long will you stay?

- As long as it's necessary.

- This contest
is just beginning.

But we will not stop.

We will not back down.

- We've got to do something.

Time was running out.

- All you military that's
been fighting for your country

overseas, you can
fight for your country

right here in America.

Get here, get some!

- The folks at the refuge said
if we can kidnap an FBI agent,

we can end this on our terms.

- # What are you going
to do when the militia #

# Comes after you, FBI? #

# #

- You can feel the pressure
building on both sides.

We're still getting
intelligence

from inside the refuge.

# #

- Pressure was building.

There's an action imperative.

We even start feeling like,
we've got to do something.

# #

- Here we have this video
of an interview with Finicum.

- Better dead than in a cell.

- Absolutely.

Dude, would you like
to be in the cell?

Nobody wants to live their--

live their life in a cell.

Absolutely I'm not going
to live my life in a cell.

- Yeah.

I remember when the--

the team in the command post
that was watching social media,

the news, et cetera,
brought that to our attention.

And it's a bit chilling, right?

- Absolutely.

- It makes you understand
the kind of people

we are dealing
with and their ideology

and their motivation.

- Through our negotiations,
picked up information

that the leadership was going
to head to a nearby town,

a different county,
and a county run

by a constitutional
sheriff that was

sympathetic to their cause.

# #

So our fear was that they--
he would allow them to take

over another federal
property in his county,

thus dividing us.

We set out on a
mission of negotiations

to determine when and who's
going to be in the car.

And there's only one
way to get there.

You've got to go
through a mountain pass.

- Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy,
Ryan Payne, and LaVoy Finicum

all were going to travel to
this meeting in John Day.

# #

And we knew when
they were going to leave,

we knew that cars
they were going to drive,

and we knew the time
that the rally was scheduled.

And with that information, we
came up with an operations plan

that would allow us
to effect an arrest

of the entire leadership of the
occupation in one fell swoop.

We had a team of OSP,
the Oregon State Police,

and HRT operators
that had specifically

selected the location
where this would happen.

And it was in an area
in the mountain pass

where there was
no cell coverage.

Because you got to
remember, these guys

are heading to John Day to
meet with sympathetic people.

There's a whole group
of sympathetic people

back in Burns.

So we don't want
them calling for help

and having both
sides of the road

filled with militia members
coming to their support.

- And now it's on.

- And now it's on.

I can remember standing
in the command post

as we're watching
these cars live

drive down the road.

# #

And when the car
that Ammon Bundy was in

passed the spot where OSP
and FBI HRT had staged--

--you can see them
pulling out,

and we were able
to arrest Ammon Bundy

and the occupants of his car
without incident.

# #

As the second team approached
a car that was driven by LaVoy

Finicum, a standoff occurred.

- Who are you?
- Who are you?

Who are you?

- And then he engages in a
drawn-out conversation with

the officers and agents,
basically saying, "You're going

"to have to shoot me.

I'm going to John Day."

- You shoot me.

I'm going to meet the sheriff.

The sheriff is waiting for us.

So you do as you
damn well please,

but I'm not going anywhere.

Here I am right there, right
there, put a bullet through it.

You understand?

I'm going to go
meet the sheriff.

You back down
or you kill me now.

- There was a video
in the vehicle

that LaVoy Finicum
was driving,

so we know exactly
what he was saying

at the exact time
that our officers

were engaging with him.

They're giving him lawful
orders to get out of the car,

to show his hands, and
he says, "Nope, I'm not going.

You can go to John Day with
me, but I'm not getting out."

- It's going to get real.

You want my blood
on your hands?

Get it done because we got
people to see and places to go.

- And they did it because
there's no service here.

- No, they got it--

- --there's no
service here at all.

- We should never have stopped.

We should never have stopped.

- I'm going to keep going.

- Then we're going
to have to duck.

- OK.
- If we take off--

- And we can get right in back.

- --shoot your tires out?

- Most likely.

- OK, are you ready?

- Well, where's those--
where's the guns?

- They got us stopped.

We can't get around him.

I'm going to go.

You guys ready?
- OK. Get down.

- Then you duck down.

Give me that camera.

OK, give me this camera.

Go.

- And I can remember
the pit in my stomach

when after about
four minutes,

I see the white truck that
Finicum's driving dash off.

# #

- Keep going.

- What about Ammon
and those guys?

- We can't get around him.

I'm going to go get help.

- And now you know
the chase is on.

# #

We had set up
a roadblock ahead.

The intent was to put
spikes on the road

to disable the vehicle,
but it happened so fast.

You could just see
the white truck

winding through the mountain
roads on this video.

And as all of a
sudden, the roadblock

comes into view of
the camera,

and he's still speeding,
high speed toward him.

- Coming up fast.

- Yeah, they are.

- At the last second, you can
see him swerve off to the left,

and there is an HRT operator
swerving around him,

you know, to try to get out of
the way of the speeding car.

And LaVoy Finicum's
truck hits a snow bank

at a high rate of speed.

And it looks like,
from what we could see,

that he's just
plowed right over it.

- Hang on!

- OK, they're shooting.

- Hang on!

- OK, we're here.

- Well, I thought
for sure that we had

an agent underneath that car.

# #

That car came to a hard stop.

In fact, so much so that the
camera goes way back and has

to come back again because
the car came

to such a dramatic stop.

I see the driver
of the car get out.

- Go ahead and shoot me.

Go ahead and shoot me.

- And start waving his hands.

You can see him
reach for a weapon.

- Stay down,
stay down, stay down.

- The third time
you see a reach,

then you just see
him fall over.

- Damn it.
Are they shooting him?

Did they shoot him?

You assholes.

Keep your head down.

Stay down.

- Did they kill him?

# #

- Nobody wants to see a loss
of life, but in that instance,

he controlled his destiny.

- Yep, he had a choice to make,
and he made his choice.

- Did they kill him?

- I think they did,
and they're shooting

over here on this door.

- What's even more disturbing
is once LaVoy Finicum made

his decision to not give up,

there's still more people
in that car.

- OK.

- And over a period
of time, we have

to get them out and
ensure we get them safely

and appropriately arrested.

We later found
out the officer

we thought had been hit by
the white truck was unharmed.

As soon as we affected the
arrests, that the negotiators

contacted every
telephone number

we had,
and I don't know how many

hundred calls you guys made.

- Yeah.

Well over 100 calls in
the next couple of hours.

- To anybody that we knew was
on the refuge to leave now.

I want to make it very clear,
that we'll continue to enforce

federal law here
in Harney County,

and anybody who travels
to Oregon with the intent

of breaking the law
will be held accountable

and will be arrested.

Illegal acts such as
occupying federal property

in a violent manner, armed, to
deprive employees' or citizens'

access to those facilities
will not be tolerated

in the United States.

I've often been asked
afterwards,

when we went through this
entire 40-plus-day ordeal,

were you successful?

Do you think the way that the
refuge occupation was handled

was a success for the FBI?

And I'd have to say yes.

I would say that,
did we resolve it peacefully?

We did the best that we could.

We took every effort
to resolve this

in a peaceful, bloodless way.

Unfortunately,
the bad guys get a choice, too.

- Exactly.

- I wish Mr. Finicum hadn't
made the decisions he did.

Go ahead and shoot me.

- But he's solely responsible
for what happened.

# #

- And the fact that that was
the only death in a situation

that was very tense,
no shortage of guns,

no shortage of very
strong feelings, was a success.

- It was the first major
drawn-out negotiation

barricade with social media.

We learned a lot from that.

And we've been teaching those
techniques to state and local

police officers since then.

- But I still
believe that Ammon

and Ryan and those at trial
with him were held accountable.

They will forever be associated
with the occupation at Malheur.

They will always be known
as those who actions led

to the death of their friend.

That could have been avoided
had they not done these things.

# #

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