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As far as I'm concerned,
my husband is still alive,
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00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,040
and I have no reason
to believe otherwise...
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..since his body has not been found.
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00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,680
This programme contains scenes which
some viewers may find upsetting
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and some strong language
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00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,800
INTERVIEWER: Do you think that you
would like to see him again one day,
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if you do believe he is alive?
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Um, as it appears that he doesn't
WANT to be seen again,
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at any rate so far,
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I don't want to see him again.
11
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And that's purely up to him? I mean,
if he walks through the door,
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you would be glad to see him,
13
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despite all that's happened?
Exactly.
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Yes, I would be glad to see him.
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Tilly.
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Won't come.
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Come on.
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00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,760
I wish to interview him
19
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and I'd like to interview him
as soon as possible.
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Have you any idea why he is
isn't coming forward at the moment?
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No.
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Do you think there is
a chance that he is still alive?
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I hope he is.
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Of Lucan himself,
nothing has been seen
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since his children's nanny
was found battered to death
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here in the basement of the
family home in Belgravia.
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This just doesn't happen, does it?
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The chances of you being adopted
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and finding out that your real
mother is in one of the biggest
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00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,480
murder mysteries of all time,
it's just... It's unbelievable.
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The Westminster Coroners' Court
returned a verdict that
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Sandra Rivett had been
murdered by Lord Lucan.
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When you start investigating
more and more,
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that's all you think about.
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00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,920
Exhaustive police searches
of the south coast produced no clue.
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00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,960
Soon the hoteliers
of northern France
37
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,400
were to start a worldwide
fashion for spotting Lucan.
38
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,040
There's been many,
many sightings all round the world,
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00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,520
none of them
have turned out to be Lucan.
40
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,720
And then you realise
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00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,000
nobody's actually really got
very far with it at all.
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00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,320
Do you think he's
altered his appearance at all?
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00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,120
Again, I don't know.
44
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,800
The very fact that Lucan's face
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is so well known is as confusing
46
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,800
as it can be helpful.
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If alive, he could easily
change his appearance completely.
48
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,400
There were obviously various
different ways
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00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,720
he could have aged, and it will
depend completely on his lifestyle.
50
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,960
The murder of my mother.
51
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,240
The obsession was,
well, where's Lord Lucan?
52
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,280
Sandra was forgotten about.
53
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,960
The police found the body
of Sandra Rivett,
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00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,480
the nanny, battered to death,
55
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,480
bundled in a mail bag
in the basement.
56
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,520
I've seen more photographs
of her dead than alive.
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00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:18,200
Everything that you do read about
Sandra in newspaper cuttings -
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00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,040
lots of boyfriends.
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00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,760
Two children out of wedlock -
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00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,760
my half-brother and myself -
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00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,720
and then to give us
both up for adoption,
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00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,800
that probably didn't look
very good neither, did it?
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00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,040
That's a lovely picture, isn't it?
64
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,280
These are the only photographs
I've got, just these four.
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00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:41,960
They tell me nothing.
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00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,760
Then you start thinking about, well,
actually, who knows my mother?
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00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,080
I thought Veronica, Lady Lucan,
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00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,680
the second-last person
to see Sandra alive.
69
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,280
So, in April 2012,
I wrote to Lady Lucan.
70
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,600
I didn't really expect a reply
71
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,320
but I did have one.
72
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,040
"Subject: Mother.
73
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,320
"I'm so glad you got in touch.
74
00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:20,240
"Your mother had only been with me
75
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,360
"for eight weeks before she was
murdered.
76
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,360
"She was kind, loyal
and a dignified woman.
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00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,920
"She was the best nanny we had.
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00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,040
"You should be reminded that,
in the 1960s,
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00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,120
"to have a child out of wedlock
was still frowned upon,
80
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,560
"and contraception often failed.
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00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,760
"I say this to assure that
your mother was not promiscuous.
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00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,440
"If you have any further questions,
do not hesitate to put them.
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00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,480
"My very best wishes."
84
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,320
I thought that was really nice, that
she'd got back to me like that.
85
00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,280
Did you write back? Yes.
86
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:01,960
"I don't know you personally,
87
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,480
"but feel sad for you
over what's happened.
88
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,320
"I do not know if the stories
about your husband living in another
89
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,240
"country are true or not.
90
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,480
"I am not sure how I feel towards
him, taking my mother's life.
91
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:22,360
"Anger, cross and hatred are all the
things I feel from time to time."
92
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,600
But now?
93
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,040
Not from time to time now.
94
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:30,920
It's worse, is it?
95
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,320
Yeah, it is worse, yeah.
Because, um...
96
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,120
Oh, it's a lot worse.
97
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,120
My anger is, um...
98
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,160
I sort of have to control it,
I suppose.
99
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,000
What did Veronica
come back to you with?
100
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,240
"I think that you should
concentrate on the fact
101
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,000
"that my late husband
killed your mother BY MISTAKE."
102
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,280
In capitals.
103
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,200
That's no mistake.
104
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,640
Can't just get away with this.
105
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,720
If he's alive,
I was going to find him.
106
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,920
Hundreds of sightings are still
pouring in from all over the world.
107
00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:25,680
The police followed up stories
in southern Africa in Mozambique.
108
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,680
Have you ever seen this man?
109
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:29,920
No, sir.
110
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,920
No? Same man?
111
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,240
No?
112
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,600
By the spring of 2012,
113
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,800
what I knew almost certainly was
that Lucan had got away to Africa.
114
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,400
I had the leaked Scotland Yard
intelligence report that gave us
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00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,720
the name he was believed to be
living under in Africa -
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00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,000
John Crawford.
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00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,000
I decided, if he's still alive,
I'm going to get him.
118
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,760
Do a shot of me,
a nice shot, nice and steady.
119
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,240
Hold it for ten seconds.
120
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:12,880
I know what I'm doing here, guv.
121
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,360
We don't talk
whilst we're recording.
122
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,640
I'd forgotten how annoying he was!
123
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,320
Stuart Crookshank had been
with Customs and Excise,
124
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,800
run Heathrow Airport.
125
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,680
I said,
"Look, would you come with me?"
126
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,200
I had some ex-Customs colleagues
who knew how Mozambique operated.
127
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,920
An inside track.
128
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,000
John Crawford's name was run through
129
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,480
the new Mozambique
passport computer.
130
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:39,920
How did you get on?
131
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,320
Hello, Glen. They've checked
out the name for you.
132
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:44,760
And the result?
133
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,280
No trace, I'm afraid.
134
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,960
John Crawford not coming in,
not going out.
135
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,920
Boom, dead end.
136
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,280
I must admit, I did... I...
137
00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,560
Yeah.
138
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,960
Because you go into all of
these, like, pumped up,
139
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,280
going, "Here we go, here we go!"
140
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,880
And it was just
dropping off a cliff.
141
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,520
We worked together for many years.
142
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,920
He's an optimist, he's positive.
143
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,080
He then dropped it on my toes
144
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,760
that Lord Lucan's brother
was in Johannesburg.
145
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,680
Hugh Bingham, Lord Lucan's brother,
was just across the border.
146
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,600
He'd moved to South Africa
only six months after the murder.
147
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:36,160
He'd joined a very niche sect
called the Theosophical Society.
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00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,960
A religious group influenced
by Buddhism -
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00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,080
only 35,000 people.
150
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,000
The trouble was
he didn't give interviews.
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00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,720
Even the lead detective
had gone in the '90s
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00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,800
to try and talk to Hugh,
and he wouldn't have any of it.
153
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,320
I'm afraid the answer
is absolutely unchanged.
154
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,520
I don't wish to get
involved in this.
155
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,480
Is there any chance of having
a talk with you without filming?
156
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,520
That wouldn't serve
any useful purpose.
157
00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,120
My mind is made up on this.
158
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,520
I'm sorry to have troubled you.
Not at all.
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00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,920
So, we go to Johannesburg,
160
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,040
and the Right Honourable
Hugh Bingham is living in an area
161
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:13,880
that has very tight security.
162
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,360
High walls, security cameras,
barbed wire, intercoms everywhere.
163
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,040
And I remember knocking
on this old metal door.
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00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,920
The door slowly opened,
165
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,840
and there was Hugh.
166
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,360
And he didn't like journalists.
167
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,840
What's the one thing that's
going to get him to talk to me?
168
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,280
And, of course, it went down
with Neil like a bowl of sick.
169
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,920
I was disgusted with Glen
170
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,040
even trying to go down that road.
171
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,080
We'd been working together for
a few years and he comes out -
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00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,000
well, he could be innocent.
173
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,000
No-one knew exactly what took place
in Lower Belgrave Street
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that night.
175
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,840
But there was evidence
176
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,200
that there was another man
in the run-up to the murder
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staying in the house.
178
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,760
One of the children gave a statement
179
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,920
testifying that there was a man
who'd been staying overnight
180
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,000
in the house.
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00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,120
The man had never been traced.
182
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,560
Now that, for Hugh Bingham,
183
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,200
is going to suggest the police
have botched this,
184
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,400
that they've just fingered
his brother Lord Lucan,
185
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,240
without looking
at the entire picture.
186
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:28,960
And it worked.
187
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,000
I do believe my brother
was innocent.
188
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,920
I think he realised immediately,
189
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:41,600
er, that the dice were very
heavily loaded against him.
190
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,000
And so he decided
191
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,920
that the only alternative
192
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,640
was to remove himself
from the picture.
193
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,160
Do you believe he committed
suicide on or around
194
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,440
the night of the murder in 1974,
195
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,120
or do you believe he did escape?
196
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:05,080
The idea of suicide, I think,
would not be a goer for my brother.
197
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,080
He was a man of considerable
resourcefulness.
198
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,680
He would have found
a sanctuary somewhere and,
199
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,240
in the nature of things,
200
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,800
he would have had to have lived
a very...restricted life,
201
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,880
to remain undetected.
202
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,440
But in your heart of hearts,
if you like, in your soul...
203
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,680
Mm. ..do you still think
your brother is alive?
204
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,880
I have no knowledge at all.
205
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,440
I have no evidence
one way or the other.
206
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,880
Thank you. Done. Done.
207
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,160
Tea or coffee?
208
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,000
A cup of tea would be lovely,
thank you very much.
209
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,880
A cup of tea would be lovely.
Erm, yes...
210
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,240
Stop recording.
211
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,200
TAPS KEY
212
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,240
Yeah, that was
when it got interesting.
213
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,760
It was when
I'd turned the camera off
214
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,760
and I was packing up the kit,
215
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,400
he said, "Look..."
Matter-of-factly, in a way.
216
00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,200
"..he did escape, he did get away...
217
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,680
"..and he became a Buddhist."
218
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,800
And then he said he'd gone to India.
219
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,280
I said, "Where do you
think your brother is?"
220
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,080
And he said, "A retreat in India."
221
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,120
The fact that he said
the word "retreat"
222
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,240
suggests to me
that it was a spiritual sanctuary,
223
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,160
if you like,
224
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,800
or somewhere where he was safe.
225
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,240
I'm fairly certain that what
Hugh told me was the truth.
226
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,800
He meant it and I respect him.
227
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,720
So, I have no reason
not to believe it.
228
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,880
And then he said
229
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,320
that, in 2008, he'd died.
230
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,680
Matter of fact.
231
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,920
Hugh had said, "He's dead."
232
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,000
Your gut reaction is to
believe that, isn't it?
233
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,320
Initially.
234
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,800
Why would he be lying?
235
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,280
Well, there's lots of reasons
why he would lie, of course,
236
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,240
because if you get that across,
that his brother's dead,
237
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,520
then people stop looking for him
238
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,160
and the whole thing just goes away.
239
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,520
But something always turns up.
240
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,000
Five years after Glen met Hugh,
241
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,040
I had a letter in the post
from Perth, Australia.
242
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,000
"Perth?
243
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,560
"Who do I know in Australia?
Who do I...? Perth?"
244
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:51,720
"Dear Neil.
245
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,880
"This short letter
is to establish communication
246
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,760
"between you and myself.
247
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,640
"In 2002,
248
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,880
"a Buddhist monk - fake..." -
in brackets -
249
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,760
"..by the name of Adam Kadmon
250
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,520
"came to me and confessed to me
251
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,800
"about what sounded like murders
252
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,280
"involving two women
253
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,960
"by the names Sandra and Veronica.
254
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,560
"Some days later, Adam Kadmon
tried to kill me.
255
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,640
"I will explain
everything in the near future,
256
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,720
"but I can tell you,
yes, Lucan did kill your mother,
257
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,480
"I'm sorry to say.
258
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,480
"I hope to hear from you
as quick as possible.
259
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,200
"Good luck. Stephen."
260
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,920
What did you make of that?
261
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,440
Er... Well, to begin with,
to be honest,
262
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,800
I thought somebody
that's absolutely crazy,
263
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,080
and...what on earth
is this man on about?
264
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,680
I thought, "The first thing
I've got to do is ring Glen."
265
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,920
He'd got a letter from Perth
in Western Australia.
266
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,440
A man who thinks he's met Lord Lucan
under a different name,
267
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,880
I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."
268
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,720
And then Neil just dropped in
that this man is a Buddhist.
269
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,520
And I'm transported instantly back
270
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,840
to the Theosophical Society in
Johannesburg 2012 with Hugh Bingham,
271
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,720
and what he said.
272
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,240
And it's what you'd call...
273
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,280
..ping! A connection.
274
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,160
AUSTRALIAN ACCENT ON TV: His
disappearance
275
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:29,480
has long been shrouded in mystery.
276
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,720
Suspected killer Lord Lucan,
the British aristocrat,
277
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,080
hasn't been seen since
his children's nanny was murdered.
278
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,600
Suspected of murder
for more than four decades,
279
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,600
Lord Lucan has been
Britain's best known fugitive.
280
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,160
His children's nanny, Sandra Rivett,
281
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,920
was found bludgeoned to death.
282
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,280
A massive manhunt failed to find
any trace of Lord Lucan...
283
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,240
Well, this is massive.
284
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,160
It is, it is, but let's
not get carried away.
285
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,160
We've just found a letter,
286
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,320
some of which is a little bit,
287
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,640
"Really?" Question mark.
Question mark.
288
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:04,760
Oh, yeah, definitely.
289
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,920
But contains a crucial
bit of information.
290
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,960
Potentially, if this man's correct,
291
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,720
then Lucan could still be alive.
292
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,880
And then if he's still alive,
let's go and get him.
293
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,960
Mm. It would have been a lot easier
294
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,480
if he'd decided to disappear
to France, wouldn't it? Yeah.
295
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,360
If you're going to disappear,
296
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,440
you might as well go to the furthest
country away.
297
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,680
Mm. And Perth
is the most isolated city...
298
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,800
Yes, it is, yeah. ..in the world.
299
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,200
Neil, I could see, was falling in.
300
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,040
We'd got the Buddhist link.
Now what?
301
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,680
I've got contacts in Scotland Yard.
I rang them.
302
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,120
And they said it warrants
further investigation.
303
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,520
He is a man of potential significant
interest to law enforcement.
304
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,520
Go with an
evidence-gathering reason.
305
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:55,840
You've got justification -
306
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,560
you're going with the son of the
murder victim, Sandra Rivett.
307
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,000
All right, Tilly? I'm off now.
308
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,240
All right?
309
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,920
Be good.
310
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,240
Lord Lucan.
311
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,920
High living, gambling,
speedboat racing aristocrat.
312
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,720
The idea of him being a Buddhist,
313
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,120
that's extreme.
314
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:30,160
Yes.
315
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,280
And I'm thinking,
"Is Stephen right?
316
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,280
"Is he wrong? This is crazy.
317
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,880
"Is Stephen crazy?
318
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,520
"Am I crazy?"
319
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,760
I said to Neil,
"We're following the evidence."
320
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,360
Is this it? Yeah.
321
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:55,800
There'd been this
ping-ponging of letters to Stephen.
322
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,880
We had his address -
we'll go knock on his door.
323
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,640
THEY KNOCK
324
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,240
Hello. Hello, Stephen.
325
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,240
Nice to see you.
326
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,240
Good to see you, good to see you.
Please, come in.
327
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,960
Are you sure? Thanks. Yeah, sure.
328
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,080
I just knew
there was something wrong.
329
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,680
I could sense there was something
horribly wrong with this man...
330
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,160
..who used -
his name was Saddhatessa.
331
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,480
But he keeps
changing his name all the time.
332
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,600
When I first met him,
he said his name was Adam Kadmon.
333
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,840
The last Buddhist name was
Bhargharama Bama, or something.
334
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,360
But, anyway...
335
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,120
Can you tell me
how you linked Saddhatessa to Lucan?
336
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,240
How you've realised
they're one and the same?
337
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,480
I'm just trying to think -
it was a long time ago.
338
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,440
20, 22 years ago now.
339
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,520
SIGHS
340
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,120
What happened was, my camper van
went down, blew a head gasket,
341
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,080
so, it takes a week to
get your motor back, you know,
342
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,280
what do you do?
You've just got to hang around.
343
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,200
So I asked around a few people
344
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,800
and I ended up renting at his place.
345
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,880
The first night
I went down to the house,
346
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,120
I walked in and he was sitting
on the floor in the lounge room
347
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:15,840
dressed in these Buddhist robes.
348
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,680
I could tell that he was English.
349
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,680
How do you mean by that?
350
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,040
It...It was an educated
English accent.
351
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,760
I looked at him.
352
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480
I just knew he was
a very suspect character.
353
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,320
You could sense it.
You could feel it.
354
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,000
Well, I can. You know?
355
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,360
Stephen Gillis.
356
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:41,760
There was an air of, kind of,
alternative lifestyle about him.
357
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,920
Sparse. He admits he's had problems
358
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,040
fitting into mainstream
Perth lifestyle.
359
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,120
Over the following days,
wherever I went,
360
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,840
he was there waiting.
361
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,880
He used to go to parties,
kept on looking at me all the time,
362
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,560
and I'm looking away and I'm...
363
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,560
I could just sense that this
guy is getting infatuated with me.
364
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,680
He was leading a double life
all the time.
365
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,040
He'd be a monk in his robes
one day,
366
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,560
and people would see him,
and then they'd see him at a party
367
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,960
the next night
and he's not in his robes
368
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,000
and he's a homosexual
trying to get on to men
369
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,320
and things like this, you know?
370
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,160
What was it exactly
that he confessed to you?
371
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,040
He used... He was a highly
unusual person, you know.
372
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,080
He used the words,
"People have karma to be repaid."
373
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,120
He said "Stephen,
it's your duty to listen to me.
374
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:32,840
"I want to confess to you.
375
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,360
"Two women back in London,
Sandra and Veronica,
376
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,040
"they had karma to be repaid."
377
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,920
You know, he was
proud about what he'd done.
378
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,000
Like, "I killed Sandra. She had
karma to repay. It's her own fault."
379
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,360
Buddhist monk meets random loner,
380
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,080
confesses to murdering
somebody in London
381
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,720
and then going on the run
for 40 years.
382
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,600
That is quite out there, isn't it?
383
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,840
Yeah, that is, yeah. I mean,
you wouldn't do it, would you?
384
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,360
Erm...
385
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,760
Maybe he just took
a liking to Stephen
386
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,560
and was trying to show off
to, sort of... You know
387
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,640
I can only think that maybe
it was that. Something like that.
388
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,880
I just turned around,
and I said, "Look, piss off.
389
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,120
"Just go down the house and
stop this bullshit all the time."
390
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,360
So, he...he looked up at me
and he says, "You know too much."
391
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,320
His partner - boyfriend -
392
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,480
he grabbed hold of a piece of wood,
393
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,640
about that long, with two
four-inch nails sticking out.
394
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,800
And he just come at me.
395
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,600
Put my arm down to protect
myself as the swing was coming in
396
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,960
and took out halfway
through my muscle body here,
397
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,440
two four-inch nails that went
halfway through all of the tendons.
398
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,240
And then the swing come back
and whacked me across the head.
399
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,840
And I was rolling,
I was seeing stars.
400
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,960
He had a white shirt on -
it was covered in blood.
401
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,760
There was blood everywhere.
402
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,960
And then he just raced at me,
403
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,280
and I'm yelling out at him,
"Stop, stop!"
404
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,040
He straddled my arms
back with his knees,
405
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,160
and just kept strangling
and strangling.
406
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,480
Saddhatessa has come up
with his robes and everything,
407
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,560
yelling out, "Kill him, kill him!
He's going to kill you - kill him!"
408
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,280
I'm starting to lose consciousness
409
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,560
and I could hear in the background
this woman screaming.
410
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,440
Saddhatessa's jumped across,
trying to pull him off
411
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,480
because now there's a witness.
412
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,640
Then the police arrived and took
his partner to the police station
413
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,520
and took me to the hospital.
414
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,440
God, I'm hot.
415
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,520
Fuck!
416
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,320
This is a restraining order.
417
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,960
This one's for sexual harassment,
418
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,960
this one here is sexual
and psychopathic intimidation.
419
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,320
And the other one is
a violence restraining order.
420
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,720
"Intimidating or behaviour
in a manner that is likely
421
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,520
"to lead to the
breach of the peace."
422
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,040
I tried to get him
to turn up in court
423
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,800
but I could never get him
into a courtroom
424
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,960
to cross examine him
about what happened.
425
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,000
And he keeps changing
his name all the time
426
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,640
so you're not sure what name
to use on the restraining order.
427
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,600
Adam Kadmon here. Yeah.
428
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,320
I think it was in this one
429
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,760
when he changed his name
to Christopher Newman.
430
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Christopher Newman. "I'm a new man."
431
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,240
It was really weird.
432
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,360
There was one restraining
order against Saddhatessa.
433
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,520
The other two
were only applications.
434
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,840
A couple of years after,
they all took off,
435
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,640
I thought, "I've got to find out
who this Saddhatessa guy is."
436
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,280
All I done was just put in a
search on the internet - murder,
437
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,600
Sandra and Veronica. Search.
438
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,080
Lord Lucan come up.
439
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560
That whole thing
was like being in a psycho movie.
440
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,720
Which is basically why I've become
a recluse for the last 20 years.
441
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,600
I'm still trying
to digest what he said.
442
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,720
I mean, some of it was crazy stuff.
443
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,720
Do you think Stephen
could have made all that up?
444
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,400
Really?
445
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,720
But is there an element of you
wanting to believe it all?
446
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,880
I mean, look, you know,
447
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,200
he could have just gone onto Google,
googled all of that,
448
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,400
and then...looking
into your mum's murder,
449
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,000
getting bits from here
and a bit from there.
450
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,320
We don't want to be
taken for a couple of mugs.
451
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,280
I'm focusing on the bit
that I want to focus on -
452
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,360
the confession,
which is actually my mother.
453
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,560
I don't know.
454
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,120
There's no point believing anything
unless it's true, is there?
455
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:00,760
Or unless you can prove it...
No, but I...
456
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,200
I want you to find
the murderer of your mum.
457
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,160
But I don't want you to be fed
a whole load of, er...
458
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,520
Well, we'll just have to dig deep
and try and find other people.
459
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,280
I'm very cautious.
460
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,320
Did he write anything to the court,
or did he write anything to you,
461
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,120
or...? I've kept
all the letters he sent me.
462
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,880
Would it be possible
I could have one or two of these?
463
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,960
Yeah, if you can use them,
all the better.
464
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,320
It's terrible writing. It's...
465
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,520
I mean, it's weird that
he's written all in capitals.
466
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,120
Of course, if you write in capitals,
467
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,840
then you can disguise
your actual real handwriting.
468
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,520
"Dear beloved Stephen.
469
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,440
"What can I do to heal
and make up for all the...
470
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,400
"..all the ma...
471
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,880
"All the pain and..."
472
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,120
"..and make up for all the pain
and hurt that you have been through?
473
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,280
"Sometimes I am feeling
so close to you,
474
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,680
"as if you are holding me
deeply, closely in your arms."
475
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,120
"You want me to come..."
476
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,760
This is very interesting,
477
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,000
"You want me to come clean.
I would if I could."
478
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,360
Would he be on the verge
of confessing?
479
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,680
"You want me to come clean
and I would if I could.
480
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,480
"All I want to do is come clean,
and I would if I could."
481
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,920
But he can't, can he?
482
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,160
From talking to Stephen,
483
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,400
we found out Saddhatessa
was operating out of a sanctuary
484
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,400
called Day Wah Jan.
485
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,800
I managed to find the details
of a lady who had gone there
486
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,480
with her mother in the '90s.
487
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,360
She sent me a nice email.
488
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,840
This must be the sanctuary.
489
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,080
I'm guessing that that is Elsie
490
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,720
and a picture of her mother.
491
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,520
"Hi. Around 25 years ago,
my family knew this man.
492
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,480
"He and my mum were quite close.
493
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,040
"We would love to talk to you.
What day is best for you?
494
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,000
"Thank you. Elsie."
495
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,920
Saddhatessa ran the centre.
496
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,640
He was, like, the main head monk
at Day Wah Jan.
497
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,480
What was he like?
498
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,720
Hmm.
499
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Different.
500
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,160
He was...
501
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,240
He was different.
502
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,960
Posh accent and very
commanding of a room.
503
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,320
Knew what to say,
knew how to say it,
504
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,840
knew how to get you in,
505
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,880
knew how to make
the eye contact with you
506
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,160
and feel like you're
the only person on Earth.
507
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,040
We all got told that
he travelled from England
508
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,600
all around the world
to learn Buddhism.
509
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,680
His Buddhist name - Saddhatessa,
510
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,680
but his name that we knew of him,
511
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,160
like, his regular name,
was Derek Crowther.
512
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,520
And he said he had a family
and a past.
513
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,160
He loved kids.
514
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,080
He played the wizard
at my sixth birthday party.
515
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,640
And that's myself at the front
in the white dress.
516
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,640
That's Saddhatessa?
Saddhatessa.
517
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,920
Unreal.
518
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,720
And then this one,
519
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000
this is Saddha and I sitting there.
We're playing a game.
520
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,880
It was great,
it was a beautiful centre.
521
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,840
It was like fairyland there.
522
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,840
And then it all changed.
523
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,640
Two Buddhist monks
came over from Tibet,
524
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,520
the Tibetan Buddhist Society,
525
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,360
and kind of realised that he just
wasn't doing the right teachings,
526
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,240
kind of questioned his credentials.
527
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,720
They told Mum that he just
wasn't a real monk.
528
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,480
He was, yeah, fake. Fake monk.
529
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,760
After that, he just disappeared.
530
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,560
Nobody knows if he was
alive or...dead.
531
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,320
Very, very strange.
532
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,640
Guru Derek.
533
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,200
Not a proper monk, had a family...
534
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,480
..and then disappears.
535
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Saddhatessa wasn't easy to find.
536
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,560
Glen and I, we were in and out
of cafes, bars,
537
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,080
Buddhist markets.
538
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,920
You kind of think,
"Oh, what am I doing?
539
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,080
"We're 20 years too late."
540
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,240
The guy with the grey hair?
541
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,600
No, I don't think I've seen
someone...
542
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,800
We were wandering around with
photos of an old monk
543
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,880
asking youngsters,
"Have you seen this man?"
544
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,040
Some sort of wizard
at a children's party.
545
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,640
I'm an investigative journalist.
Am I on the right planet?
546
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,040
I was excited.
547
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Is this the person
that murdered my mother?
548
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,520
We're looking for an Englishman,
who was here in the 1980s, '90s.
549
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,160
Ah, you're investigators?
550
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,400
Well...
551
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,640
Are you a cop? Not a copper.
552
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,760
I'm a builder,
but I am investigating.
553
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,880
This face is familiar.
554
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,160
Kind of monk, like a monk.
555
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,320
It moved something in my brain.
556
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,920
I don't know what he did,
why you're looking for him.
557
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,760
Well, we're looking for him because
Neil thinks he murdered his mum.
558
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,000
Whoa!
559
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,800
How old was your mother?
560
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,120
She was 29.
561
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,280
Oh, my God.
562
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,600
But let me tell you something -
if someone doesn't want to
563
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,040
be found here in Australia,
you won't find him. Why?
564
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,600
Australia is so vast.
565
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,440
1,200 square kilometres per person.
566
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,920
Authorities, they don't make checks.
567
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,480
Who's going to know you?
568
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200
From one town to another,
569
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,600
you can change names,
appearance and everything.
570
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,680
They don't know any better.
571
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,080
If you want to catch a criminal,
you've gotta think like a criminal.
572
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Try to understand - what would you
do?
573
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,520
Where would you go?
574
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,320
How you would behave?
575
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,240
If I would have done something bad,
576
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,240
I would be the best person
where I am hiding.
577
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,920
Doing something for the community.
578
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,440
Hiding in plain sight,
579
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,400
so everybody will love me
580
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,240
or everybody would say
that I'm a good man.
581
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,200
I hope you catch him, my friend.
582
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,800
I hope you do. Yeah.
583
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,840
That was good.
584
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
So being a Buddhist monk
is a brilliant disguise.
585
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,840
If Lucan had become a Buddhist monk,
you need to carry that on.
586
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,920
Let's try "Buddhist retreat, Perth".
587
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,880
So, I just assumed that he'd still
be a Buddhist monk doing good.
588
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,720
There's tonnes and tonnes
of Buddhist websites.
589
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,240
I just started wading through
as many as I could.
590
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:05,560
# This is the age of prophecy. #
591
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,040
Their music's quite relaxing,
isn't it?
592
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,840
I came across one particularly
well-made website...
593
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,480
# The revelation... #
594
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,320
..showing some
quite strange activities.
595
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,840
But also, the video looked like
some sort of Buddhist garden party.
596
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,640
# And I am you... #
597
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,280
I was fascinated
598
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,680
because there was an old man
in a purple shirt
599
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,960
serving himself lunch.
600
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,640
Oh, I see an old man....
601
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,160
..with a long face.
602
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,560
Grey beard.
603
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,480
Oh, he's even got a waistcoat on.
604
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,400
Look.
605
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,840
He's serving himself yoghurt
with his left hand.
606
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,400
What's the significance of that?
607
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Lucan was a left-handed card player.
608
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,840
The old man looked
very, very similar
609
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,520
to the old man in the photos
we'd collected.
610
00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:25,400
God, this could be him.
611
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,760
Just, all...identical.
612
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,120
So, what have we got?
613
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,160
He seems to like coleslaw.
614
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,160
Lucan played cards
with his left hand.
615
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,840
This man's serving himself
with his left hand.
616
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,400
He might have hurt his right hand.
617
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,040
His right hand might be holding
an apple, we don't know.
618
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,200
But for Neil, you know,
full throttle, boom.
619
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,520
The video was on a website
from a guy called Darpan.
620
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,160
I managed to get his email
address off his website.
621
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,880
I had to get in contact,
but I had a big problem.
622
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,000
I couldn't be me, Neil Berriman.
623
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,120
I'd been on TV.
624
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,240
I'm the son of Sandra Rivett.
625
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:19,560
I personally know that the
convenient drowning of Lord Lucan
626
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:20,840
is not true.
627
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,640
SHUTTERS CLICK
628
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,240
Anybody, including Lucan,
could have googled me.
629
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,520
To catch a criminal, you have
to think like a criminal.
630
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,120
So, I had to create a story
and go undercover.
631
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,040
I had to pretend
that...I was a Buddhist.
632
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,280
I needed a name.
633
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,720
What better than being
Bezza Dugal?
634
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:57,960
I thought, "Bezza Dugal -
that's...that's excellent."
635
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,720
Where did you get "Bezza Dugal
from?
636
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:02,160
Dugal, um, yeah...
637
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,560
Yeah. Um...
638
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,320
Dugal was my best friend.
639
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:09,520
He's over there.
640
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,680
And Bezza was my nickname when I was
at school - basically from Berriman.
641
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,760
So, Bezza Dugal - little bit hippy,
little bit out there.
642
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,040
Is it? I think so.
643
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,920
I had to iron out
how I'd met Saddhatessa.
644
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,040
Stephen had told me that Saddhatessa
used to drink in a coffee shop
645
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,960
in Perth, so I came up
with this story
646
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,720
of me going into this coffee shop
that I've never been into before
647
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,120
and having a nervous breakdown
648
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,280
in...in the coffee shop.
649
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,000
Subject - Nice old man.
650
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:53,920
"Dear Darpan..."
651
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,920
I wrote that Saddhatessa was there
and sorted out my mental state.
652
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,720
I was only in there
for about an hour,
653
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:11,280
but Bezza was very grateful for what
happened and I wanted to thank him.
654
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,680
"He is...in your home video.
655
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,200
"Purple shirt.
656
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,440
"If he is alive,
657
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,800
"he would be...
658
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,800
"..82.
659
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,160
"Please help.
660
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,880
"Take care.
661
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,160
"Bezza."
662
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:57,680
Send.
663
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:13,240
Neil went off on a strategy
which I have no involvement in.
664
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:17,080
So, he didn't ask your advice?
Didn't tell you he was doing it?
665
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,080
No, he went rogue a bit.
666
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,560
Can I have a cup of tea
and a still water, please?
667
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,920
What cup of tea would you like?
668
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,800
Just a normal cup of tea
with some...
669
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,040
Creates a complete new identity,
670
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,800
false memories.
671
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,600
I mean, talk about creative licence.
672
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,760
But that was it. You can't take it
back, once you've done it,
673
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,360
and he'd done it already -
he'd created Bezza Dugal
674
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,880
and it was under way,
so things were happening.
675
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,800
"Hi, Bezza,
his name is Vajra Sambava.
676
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,160
"He lives in Brisbane, Australia.
677
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,840
"He's 82 and chipper."
678
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,320
He's alive.
679
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,440
Ah, you... I couldn't...
680
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,080
So, this old man's not dead,
but I still don't know who he is.
681
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,040
But he's alive.
682
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,120
If he'd come back and, "I'm really
sorry, he died three years ago,"
683
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,800
then what would I have done?
684
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:10,520
Yeah, what WOULD you have done?
685
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,920
I don't know.
I would have been devastated.
686
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,280
I mean, that being... That was just
like a lottery, isn't it?
687
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,280
It's a 50/50. The email was...
It's a 50/50.
688
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,120
It's like tossing a coin.
689
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,200
Dead or alive, dead or alive,
dead or alive.
690
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,720
And he's alive.
691
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:26,640
It's like everything's meant to be.
692
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,280
We knew that
we were getting closer...
693
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,160
..so I said to Glen, "Let's
get on the road to Brisbane."
694
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,120
Before we set off,
the chancer in me,
695
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,600
I thought I would just push it
one step further.
696
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,080
I emailed Darpan again,
explaining to him
697
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,240
that I wanted to send the nice
old man a birthday card.
698
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:59,840
His birthday, I wrote
18th of December.
699
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,800
And I knew that Lucan's
birthday was the 18th.
700
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,760
Morning. Morning, how are you going?
May I have two coffees?
701
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,080
Of course, and what was your name,
please? It's Neil.
702
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,640
Straight away, Darpan wrote back.
703
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,880
And this, it's...it's...incredible.
704
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,720
"I told Vajra about your inquiry
and he was happy to hear about you.
705
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,640
"That was very thoughtful of you
to remember his birthday.
706
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,200
"Bless. Darpan."
707
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,400
Wow.
708
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,560
It's worked a treat, absolute treat.
709
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,560
It couldn't have gone any better.
710
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,200
The whole Bezza thing...
711
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,320
Mm.
712
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,080
I mean, you know,
Neil just created Bezza Dugal
713
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,880
as if he was just spat out of
Mount Doom.
714
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,920
CHUCKLES
715
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,160
Yeah.
716
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,600
I'm not a control freak,
but I like to plan things.
717
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,480
This is more my area of expertise.
718
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,280
I've done 30 years of this
sort of stuff.
719
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,800
But, yeah, well he doesn't listen.
720
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,120
He's always, 24/7, thinking about
it.
721
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,360
It drives you mad.
722
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,760
To be fair, though,
it is your expertise,
723
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,440
but if you went by the book and
you did it how you were trained to,
724
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,880
then you wouldn't be
creating a fake ID
725
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,560
and infiltrating a Buddhist commune.
No.
726
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,160
God, I know, it takes ages, doesn't
it? If you jump in, I'll drive.
727
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,680
Yeah, OK. So you hold it for me.
What, was there a queue?
728
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:24,960
A little one.
729
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:32,000
So, we are off to Brisbane.
730
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,280
It's a five-and-half-hour flight,
on the other side of the country.
731
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,520
We took a place in the hills
outside Brisbane.
732
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,200
It's an interesting place.
I think Glen had booked it.
733
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,280
It's got no windows.
734
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,520
It's like a cow shed
with the front missing.
735
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,080
I don't mind this.
736
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,200
God.
737
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,800
And an outside toilet!
738
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,560
I think it's nice. It's rustic.
739
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,720
Darpan said the old man
had a carer.
740
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,120
You can reach him through WhatsApp,
and here's his number.
741
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:27,760
So, OK, WhatsApp.
742
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,280
I need a photograph
743
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,720
for Bezza Dugal's WhatsApp profile.
744
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,200
And it couldn't be me - people would
potentially recognise me.
745
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,760
But I could use my mate Dugal's.
746
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,000
So, I wrote to the carer.
747
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,000
"My name is Bezza Dugal.
748
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,520
"I knew the nice old man in Perth
in a coffee shop in 2002.
749
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,400
"I would like to make contact.
750
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,440
"Bless.
751
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,480
"Bezza."
752
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,840
Send.
753
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,840
PHONE CHIMES
754
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:12,880
Good luck, Bezza.
755
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,120
Brisbane.
Population, 2.5 million.
756
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,800
Wherever he was,
we needed to be ready.
757
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,160
BEEP
758
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,680
Armed.
759
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:31,200
Three yellow lights.
760
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,800
Recording.
761
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,400
I brought out my boys' toys.
762
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,920
I was desperate to use them.
763
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,640
The tech side is my responsibility.
764
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,040
I'm a bit old in the tooth
for it, to be honest, but, um...
765
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,600
Max is 45 minutes on these
and then you're done,
766
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,360
so you've got to get in and out.
767
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,880
For Neil, he's obviously
stressed about this whole endeavour
768
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,400
and is very emotionally invested.
769
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,240
THUNDER RUMBLES
770
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:21,840
Do you ever see that
getting in the way?
771
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,720
It does get in the way,
772
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:27,800
but at the same time, he does
understand the boundaries.
773
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,520
You know, as long as he keeps cool,
774
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,160
as long as he keeps calm and
doesn't do anything irrational
775
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,920
or stupid, great.
776
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,400
ALERT PINGS
777
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:38,880
We're on.
778
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,400
Mitchelton.
779
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,320
How do you spell it?
M-I-T-C-H...
780
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Yeah. ...E-L-T-O-N.
781
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:49,960
Queensland.
782
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,720
I've got a message
from the old man's carer.
783
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,840
Through all this lying and deceit,
I now have an address.
784
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,120
There he is, there.
785
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:01,560
Here we go.
786
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,000
Look at the size of them!
787
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,800
It's a big house, three layers,
788
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,800
on quite a posh, wide Queensland
avenue on the outskirts of Brisbane.
789
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,760
Right, so from Landsborough,
Queensland to Mitchelton,
790
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,680
4053,
791
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,640
I reckon we should get the train.
792
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,160
TANNOY ANNOUNCEMENT
793
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,720
It's all about relaxed -
being relaxed, confident.
794
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,200
Casual.
795
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,360
The next station is Wilston.
796
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,880
They didn't know
that we were coming.
797
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,440
We set off...
798
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,240
..and then realised
there was a problem.
799
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,760
I couldn't be Bezza Dugal because...
800
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,560
..I didn't look like Bezza Dugal,
801
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,720
because I'd already sent
a picture on of Bezza Dugal.
802
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:06,040
Your friend Dugal.
803
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,000
Yeah, my... Well, actually,
my...my friend Dugal.
804
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,120
So they would have recognised me
805
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,240
of not being somebody
with white hair and a beard,
806
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:15,360
Two more stops.
807
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:16,800
The next station is Mitchelton.
808
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,320
Oh, God.
809
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,840
I said to Glen,
"What are we going to do?"
810
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,640
He says, "I don't know."
811
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,480
I said, "The only thing
that I can think of doing
812
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,120
"is Bezza Dugal's dead."
813
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,320
The story that Neil concocted,
814
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
we were there to deliver
some bad news.
815
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,880
We're friends of Bezza Dugal,
816
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,720
we'd been asked by the family
to say thank you to the old man
817
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:45,920
for his emotional support
that he'd given to him
818
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,480
all those years before
in the coffee shop at Perth.
819
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:50,960
This is us.
820
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:52,000
We're here.
821
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,280
Mitchelton Station.
822
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,080
Oh, God. What ARE we doing?
823
00:46:58,680 --> 00:46:59,920
Press the button.
824
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,480
Oh, shit. Hang on, it's over here!
825
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,240
Oh, I see, yeah, yeah.
826
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,360
We were at a point where I was
absolutely shitting myself now.
827
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,560
Hold it up here. That's it.
828
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,200
One, two, three.
829
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,440
BEEP
830
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,560
There you go, see that?
See the light?
831
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,240
Well, everything was
riding on those glasses.
832
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,760
Well, let's just get past
the door knocker... Yeah, OK.
833
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,360
Stop getting on at me. OK, um...
834
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:31,880
OK, let's go.
I'll follow you.
835
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,600
Let's go. Let's do it, then.
836
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,200
NEIL EXHALES
837
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,680
Oh, God.
838
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:50,480
How are you? Hello, boy.
839
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,160
All right, let's just do it.
840
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,560
Walking towards the house...
841
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,640
..it hits me.
842
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,560
Do you actually realise,
Neil, that maybe we've tracked
843
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,240
somebody down that's one of the
biggest stories ever?
844
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,520
The person that murdered my mother.
845
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,200
Panic struck.
846
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,400
I said, "Look, I'm telling you
now, I'm not going in that house."
847
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,360
Were you worried about
what he might do?
848
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,920
Not really, no,
because I knew he was old.
849
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,040
Were you worried about
what you might do?
850
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,720
It went through my mind.
851
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,400
Come on, Neil. Let's just do it.
852
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:37,640
You'll be fine.
853
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,200
You know, and your heart is
pounding away at a rate of knots.
854
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,360
And I knew he was
getting quite cross.
855
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,440
"You've got to go in, if they ask
you in. You've got to go in.
856
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,560
"Come on, Neil, you can do it.
You can do it.
857
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,040
"Come on, come on!
858
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,760
"Come on, it's only over there."
859
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,360
I'm glad Glen was with me.
860
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,920
He's my mate,
he's my partner in crime.
861
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,880
I think this is the one.
862
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,040
There's your porch, there you go.
Knock on the door.
863
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,160
HE KNOCKS
864
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,160
BELL RINGS
865
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,480
The strange thing is that,
when we got to the door,
866
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,520
I changed.
867
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,000
I want this.
868
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,600
Around this way.
869
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:36,920
Hello? All right?
870
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,120
The carer came down the stairs.
871
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,600
I knew that
I had to be somebody else,
872
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,560
but I didn't think of a name
873
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,480
until I was standing
at the bottom of the stairs
874
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,080
when the carer came down,
875
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,560
and then
I just said, "I'm Pete."
876
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,400
I'm...I'm Pete, that's Glen.
877
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:57,760
Nice to meet you. How're you doing?
878
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,320
And who was Glen? Glen.
879
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,280
I'm a friend of Dugal's.
880
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,560
Yes. Bezza Dugal?
Yes, Bezza Dugal. Bezza.
881
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,080
And, um... Yes.
882
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,240
..we're here on business... Yes.
883
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:10,640
..and we've got to go back literally
884
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,440
in sort of like ten minutes.
885
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,360
Well, come on, come on.
And, um...
886
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,680
The carer referred to the old man
as Christopher.
887
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,080
And a quick dive
into the property records
888
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,080
showed that the place
was rented by a Christopher Bell.
889
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,960
Another identity.
890
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,800
Shall I call him
Vajra or Chris? Vajra?
891
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,480
Chris. Chris?
892
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,680
The carer said Christopher
was in his office,
893
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:52,960
"I'll go and get him."
894
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,520
And then out of this door...
895
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,320
..just comes this...
896
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,640
..old man.
897
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,560
Vajra, or Christopher.
And I remember Glen's name.
898
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,200
I'm Pete. And Pete, yes.
Perfect. Hello.
899
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:14,600
Nice to meet you.
900
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,040
Vajra, nice to meet you.
901
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,560
Nice to meet you.
902
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:20,680
Um, we're here on business.
903
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,040
Yes.
904
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,400
And, um, Bezza Dugal...?
905
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,160
You've been in touch
with my friend Bezza Dugal?
906
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,840
Yes. Um... I'll be able to find
you that picture of him...
907
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,080
Yes.
908
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,640
VOICE-OVER: I-I shook his hand.
909
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,680
I'm Pete, but inside I'm Neil.
910
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,840
And I kept thinking, "Right, OK,
this is means to an end.
911
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,120
"A means to an end."
912
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,120
So, I had to explain to them
that Bezza Dugal had...
913
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:48,240
Was...Was dead.
914
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,760
Yes, there he is, there.
915
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,160
OK, that...
916
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,160
SHUTTER CLICKS
917
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,480
That's the picture,
obviously, you've seen...
918
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,360
And you're English,
we were told, by Bezza.
919
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,200
Where from? From...?
920
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,520
You're from Belgravia, aren't you?
London.
921
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,920
You used to live in Belgravia,
I think Dugal told me.
922
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,840
He'd been brought
up by the Theosophical movement.
923
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,520
You couldn't make it up.
924
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,280
We can match that with Hugh Bingham,
925
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,440
who was in the Theosophical Society
in South Africa,
926
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:36,840
his own brother.
927
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,400
CHUCKLING
928
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,160
That's a beautiful photo.
929
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,160
He was quite relaxed.
930
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,480
He seemed happy
to have his photo taken.
931
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,360
These phones are amazing these days.
932
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,160
It was quite weird.
933
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,760
The old man, he was on the verge of
opening up about his past.
934
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,800
It was like...
935
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,560
..two people had come from England
and he was excited.
936
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:10,520
Princess Margaret?
937
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,160
He knew Princess Margaret.
938
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,800
And we knew that Lucan
mixed in the same
939
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,320
social circles as Princess Margaret.
940
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:28,640
Oh, really?
941
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,480
He said that he, as a child,
942
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,520
used to go to the kitchens,
943
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,440
and he knew the Princesses,
944
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,840
and Margaret particularly well.
945
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,920
He could conceivably have met her.
946
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,440
It's possible, yes.
947
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,680
But would he have been
allowed in the kitchens
948
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,600
at Buckingham Palace
when his father was working there?
949
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,800
Would Princess Margaret have
been down in the kitchens,
950
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,640
having such a great time with
the son of the baker's hand?
951
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:56,920
Unlikely.
952
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,560
Was she? Oh, you know...
953
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:04,600
LAUGHTER
954
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,040
You can only push your luck
for so long.
955
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,280
Neil's fuse was beginning
to burn down.
956
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,760
The whole conversation
I wanted to turn
957
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,400
into, actually,
958
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,240
"You bastard.
I know you're Lord Lucan."
959
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,360
Anger leads to...mistakes.
960
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,840
Oh, yeah...
961
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,560
I called him Neil.
962
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,000
He's just called me Neil.
963
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,240
I just want to say,
it's been a pleasure meeting you.
964
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:41,640
Thank you.
965
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,400
Nobody noticed.
966
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,120
I want him out.
He's talking about cards,
967
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,400
he's becoming a loose cannon,
let's get out.
968
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,800
I would have taken it further
if it wasn't for Glen.
969
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,160
Thank you for your time.
970
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,560
Bye-bye.
Thank you, gentlemen. Bye-bye.
971
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,920
Take care. Safe journey to you.
And you. Take care.
972
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,000
We're trying to solve
Britain's biggest murder mystery.
973
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,480
No-one finds Lord Lucan.
974
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:12,880
So, how do you feel?
975
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,880
I'd fucking murder him,
wouldn't you?
976
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,360
This path has been littered
with skeletons
977
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,640
of my journalistic colleagues
for decades before me.
978
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,960
Knows Princess Margaret really well?
979
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,760
Do you think it's him?
Of course it is.
980
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,280
You're sure, now?
981
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:31,800
In a million years.
982
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,000
Posh accent, Belgravia.
983
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,400
No-one goes wandering into an
old man's house in Brisbane
984
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,200
and finds the man hunted by
so many people for so many years.
985
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,920
It can't be him,
986
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,240
can it?
987
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,880
English, walks like a toff.
988
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,880
Arms behind his back.
989
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:01,640
He's the same age as Lucan,
990
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,160
and the same birthday.
991
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,520
The Interpol arrest warrant
states that he's got blue eyes.
992
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,520
This man has blue eyes.
993
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,400
Do you think there is
a chance that he is still alive?
994
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,760
I hope he is.
995
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,720
Saddhatessa, Vajra...
996
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:22,920
He can be anywhere,
I just don't know.
997
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,560
..Derek Crowther, Adam Kadmon,
which means "new man".
998
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,600
Do you think he's
altered his appearance at all?
999
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,440
Again, I don't know.
1000
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,040
Christopher Newman.
Literally, "new man".
1001
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,400
And now Christopher Bell.
1002
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,800
He writes to Stephen,
"You want me to come clean.
1003
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,600
"I would if I could."
1004
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,680
He writes in capitals.
1005
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,400
Elsie said that he talked about
having a family back in London.
1006
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,200
Comes from Belgravia,
1007
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,440
knew Princess Margaret,
1008
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,080
Theosophical Society.
1009
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,360
There's roughly 35,000
Theosophists in the whole world.
1010
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,800
I have done the maths.
1011
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,560
The chances of bumping into another
Theosophist is one in 228,000.
1012
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,000
That's Lucan. Course that's Lucan,
all day long.
1013
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,040
Lord Lucan is still alive
1014
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,600
and living
in a Buddhist monastery...
1015
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,600
You can see there, the nick
in exactly the same place.
1016
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,520
Does this guy know
he's the chief suspect?
1017
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,200
Who are they claiming
this person is?
1018
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,280
Lord Lucan.
1019
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:48,960
Oh, no, no!
1020
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,320
No, it's not my friend, Lucky.
1021
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,760
We need something else.
1022
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,040
At this precise moment,
1023
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,280
I don't know what that is.
122753
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